March 14, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode of "Demystifying the Transgender Journey," host Lynn Murphy interviews Wendy Cole, who began her transition from male to female at the age of 67. Wendy shares her experiences of living authentically, including the emotional and physical challenges she faced prior to and during her transition. The discussion also covers her decision to pursue hormone therapy and surgery, the impact on her marriage, and her journey towards self-acceptance. Wendy emphasizes the importance of being selfish and focusing on oneself during such a significant life change. She also recounts her early tests of living as a woman and the transformative power of her first therapy sessions. The episode aims to educate and inspire by sharing the personal stories and struggles of those born transgender.
https://www.facebook.com/thetransgenderjourney
00:00 Introduction and Self-Focus
00:20 Demystifying the Transgender Journey
00:50 Wendy Cole's Transition Story
01:26 Living Authentically as Wendy
02:36 Challenges and Acceptance
05:17 Therapy and Self-Discovery
08:53 Embracing the New Identity
12:14 Learning and Adapting
20:41 Overcoming Excuses and Age Barriers
21:53 Embracing Life at 75
22:39 Living Authentically as Wendy
23:52 Navigating Divorce and Family Dynamics
26:48 Discovering Family Secrets
29:29 Transitioning and New Experiences
32:59 Self-Awareness and Acceptance
37:36 Starting Over in New England
39:24 Advocacy and Public Speaking
39:56 Conclusion and Next Steps
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Wendy (00:00):
Anyone going through this?
You need to be very selfish.
You need to focus on yourselfcompletely and totally.
Ideally, there's no room forcompromise because any compromises
you make compromise youroverall transition experience.
Lynn (00:20):
What do you really know about people who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious but hesitant to ask questions.
Well, welcome to demystifying theTransgender Journey in our conversations
with people who were born transgender,their families, friends, and the
professionals who support them, weask probing questions and discover
(00:40):
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find more information onour website, the transgender journey.com.
Now, let's get right into today's episode.
Last time on demystifyingthe transgender journey.
I can't go back and redo these
Wendy (00:56):
67 years, so make the best of what I've got going forward.
I went from living as a guy toliving as a woman full-time.
Six months.
I was about 70 poundsheavier than I am now.
I was type two diabetic.
My blood work was horrible.
Emotionally and physically.
I was a mess.
Once I frightened out my whole mentalprocess, the thoughts and the beliefs that
(01:20):
I have, all of that started to change.
It is our minds.
That can affect our health.
I was living full-time by July of2015, had surgery in August of 2017.
Most wonderful experiencein my entire life.
I hear a lot of peoplesay, well, I'm too old.
(01:40):
I. I still feel like I'm inmy twenties and thirties.
Yeah.
Never too old to be yourself.
Lynn (01:45):
Welcome to another episode of Demystifying the Transgender
Journey, brought to you byWomen Who Push the Limits.
I'm your host Lynn Murphy, and I'mfounder of Women Who Push the Limits
and author of the bestselling 50Life Lessons from Inspiring Women.
For today's episode, I'm continuingto interview the amazing Wendy Cole.
Wendy was born transgender andtransitioned at 67 years old from
(02:09):
living in a man's body, which sheknew was not really who she was to
living her authentic life as thewoman that she was meant to be.
When we were recorded.
This episode, she was 75 years old.
If you haven't listened to thoseepisodes, be sure and find those.
Wendy and I have had suchinsightful conversations that we
knew we needed to continue doingmore episodes of this podcast.
(02:30):
So Wendy and I agreed that she would comeback for more interviews, and today we're
gonna pick up where we left off before.
Today she's gonna talk about herexperiences of blending in and some of her
first experiences of living as a woman.
So Wendy, welcome back to theshow and thank you so much for
sharing so authentically and suchfascinating story about your life.
Wendy (02:50):
Thank you for having me, and I really enjoyed doing this with
you, and I think it's important,
Lynn (02:55):
and that's what I think too.
It's important that peopleunderstand people who are different.
There's a song that popped into myhead that I learned when I was a kid.
We sang it in school orin church or something.
It was let there be Peace onEarth and let it begin With me.
Mm-hmm.
And talking about we're all brothers or brothers and sisters.
Right.
Wrote it back in those days when they.
(03:16):
Weren't quite as worried about that, but
Wendy (03:19):
yeah.
Lynn (03:19):
And so let us, let's walk with our brothers and sisters in perfect harmony.
Mm-hmm.
And I think interviewing you andgetting the word out that you've been
so gracious to share and so authenticand open, I think that just helps
everybody get to, to the point wheremaybe we'll walk in more harmony.
And Lynn,
Wendy (03:40):
the reason that I started doing this was how many people have ever had
the opportunity to meet a person like me?
I. Or talk to someone like me.
Yeah.
Or even comprehend what my lifehas been like over the decades.
And that's what I wanna share because Iwant to remove that mystery, that mystique
(04:04):
about it That, that it's something reallystrange and different because I'm not
that much different from anyone else.
We're all human.
Lynn (04:12):
Yeah,
Wendy (04:13):
I just happened to have been born with a different condition
that until 2012 was not sociallyacceptable to even discuss, and
the medical community wouldn't haveanything to do with it until 2012.
Lynn (04:27):
And you talked about how at three years old you knew you were a girl.
Mm-hmm.
It was so obvious.
At 10 years old you told your parentsand they threatened you with psychiatric.
Treatment.
That was horrendous.
Exactly.
We talked about that last time.
So how you buried that and the thingthat I remember from that last interview
was talking about the depression andthe frustration and the anger that
(04:51):
that was just part of you all the time.
And to Wendy to live like thatfor so many decades exactly.
Had to be incredibly difficult.
Wendy (05:03):
It was very difficult.
And it was fraught with many perils ofthings that I could have done, tried
to do whatever, some very dark periods.
Lynn (05:17):
So tell us, you said it was 2015 is when you finally made the decision.
So let's go to that point and talk aboutwhat is it that that kind of precipitated
that decision at 67 years old to not.
With all that weight to carry
Wendy (05:37):
all that baggage.
It just, yeah, I hit a very darkperiod in late 2014, and I've always
had the periods of suicidal ideation.
This was really bad.
And I was almost ready to sitdown and do it, but I hadn't.
(05:57):
I had intentional, I struggled somuch to repress all of this and to
bury it and hold it back that I neverallowed myself to go look online on the
internet to see if anything has changed.
Lynn (06:14):
So you were that repressed.
Wendy (06:16):
That repressed,
Lynn (06:18):
because by that point the internet had all kinds of things on it, but if
you never looked, that's just amazing.
Wow.
Okay.
I never
Wendy (06:25):
looked because it was such a struggle to repress it all.
Lynn (06:28):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (06:29):
I'm not exaggerating that this was something that was with me day and
night, and as I said in our previousconversation, just distractions
are what helped me get through.
That
and psychiatrists who would prescribe lots of meds,
Lynn (06:48):
which didn't really help the problem,
Wendy (06:49):
it just buried it and masked it.
And I was living in a,I was living in a fog.
My one and only real close friend fromhigh school was living in Asheville,
North Carolina at the time, and I calledhim up and I told him about me and
what I was doing and he said, wow, Ihad no idea about any of this when we
(07:12):
were together back in high school and.
You're do living this way.
And I said, yeah.
And he goes, you were living in a fog.
Mm-hmm.
And he, he was right.
Absolutely right.
But that's what the psych meds do.
And so anyway, I looked it up,started poking around online on the
internet back when I. In 1970, therewas no internet to look up any of
(07:36):
this stuff on, and I had no knowledgeof what was going on then either.
I just knew what I needed to do.
I found out that all of a sudden, nowit's in 20, as of 2012, it's no longer
a psychological condition that you'reborn with, no treatment and no cure,
but it's a condition you're born withthat's treatable by therapy, by hormone
(07:57):
replacement therapy, and any necessarysurgeries that you feel you need.
And at that point, uh, this hadbeen going on, this had changed
like two and a half years earlier.
I was married at the time and atthat point I left my computer, went
upstairs and informed my wife that.
(08:18):
Remember what we had talked about in 1978?
Yep.
Lynn (08:21):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (08:22):
Okay.
It's here.
It didn't go away.
It's still with me andI'm getting therapy.
I don't know where thisis going to lead yet.
I have no idea.
And Lynn, at that point intime, I never envisioned being
able to do what I am have done.
Lynn (08:40):
Oh yeah.
Wendy (08:42):
That's how repressed it was.
That's how much I didn't even thinkit was possible at that point.
I just knew I had to take astep forward and do something.
And that opened up a wholenew world then, didn't it?
Oh my God, that was incredible.
Thank
Lynn (09:01):
goodness you found that.
Wendy (09:03):
I know one of the things that I gained out of my first six
months of therapy was gratefulness.
Grateful to my male facsimilefor not having killed me.
Lynn (09:17):
Oh, yes.
Wendy (09:18):
For not having made me a drug addict or an alcoholic,
all of which were very possible.
Lynn (09:24):
Yeah.
To cover all that up, to suppressit even more, just to tune out.
Right, exactly.
And there was a lot of strength in you.
Miss Wendy, a lot of strength.
Wendy (09:36):
I, I'm grateful that I survived.
Yes.
And.
And my, I don't know if I mentioned it in our earlier conversation,
but my first therapy session withStephanie was just phenomenal.
She was the very first person I everhad the opportunity to speak with since
1970, amazing, 45 years, four and a halfdecades repressing, holding everything
(10:04):
back, hiding, living with shame, fear.
Guilt for having tried tofit in and gotten married.
Guilt for having gone through all of itand uh, brought another person into my
life that ultimately had to deal with this
Lynn (10:22):
too.
Wendy (10:23):
Wow.
Lynn (10:23):
That's a lot of guilt to carry.
That's a lot of guilt.
And you had two children with your wife.
Wendy (10:28):
It's, it was a lot.
But that first step forward into therapyand in that first therapy session, just
pouring my heart out and really, itjust felt so much relief, like weight
was lifting off of me because now I'msharing how I feel with another person
Lynn (10:45):
who's accepting.
Wendy (10:47):
Exactly.
There was no judgment there whatsoever.
And.
When I stood up to leave, and thisis the part of it that was just
empowering, absolutely amazing, wasshe's sitting there with my file
folder and it's got my mail facsimilename written on it, and she looks up
at me and she goes, what's your name?
Just very simple question like that.
(11:08):
What's your name?
She had no idea what the answer wouldbe, and I just instinctively said.
Wendy, and then to my joy amazement,just total a weight just lifted from me.
I watched her scratch out the othername and write Wendy on the file.
That's so cool, and from that day forward.
(11:30):
I was windy.
Lynn (11:30):
Mm-hmm.
As far
Wendy (11:31):
as she was concerned, that was it.
That was incredibly powerfuland it started to help me see
that, yeah, somebody acceptedme for this and it was an
Lynn (11:41):
outward sign.
And you talked about doing inner worktoo, but then it seems like having that
label on it, something about seeingit written there right now, Wendy.
And I've
Wendy (11:53):
been carrying that name with me from grammar school.
Lynn (11:58):
So you've always been Wendy, you just Right.
Hadn't shared it with anybody.
'cause nobody was gonnaaccept that until Stephanie.
Exactly.
Wendy (12:05):
It's, I went through that first six months of therapy and on the way to
therapy, on the way home from therapy.
Those were my days to goout in public as Wendy.
Every Thursday as I was doing that,I would give myself life tests, go
and do something that I wanted todo, be be seen by other people, be
(12:28):
out in public, and I would dream uplittle things to do along the way.
Lynn (12:34):
So you gave yourself your own tests?
Wendy (12:36):
Yes.
Lynn (12:38):
You were committed to this, weren't you?
Wendy (12:40):
I had to find out if I could do it.
I had no idea if I could do it or not.
But what has shifted in me, and it'ssomething that I work with in people in
my coaching work, is I. How do we changeour thoughts so that we can be open
(13:00):
to new beliefs and new possibilities?
One of my very early life tests was goingto Dunking Donuts and getting coffee
on the way to, on the way to therapy.
Yeah.
Lynn (13:12):
You couldn't cheat by going
Wendy (13:13):
through
Lynn (13:13):
the drive-through, could you?
Wendy (13:14):
Exactly.
No.
It was just a lot of.
Let's go try this.
Let's go walk around the supermarket.
Let's go walk through town at differenttimes and see that it didn't matter.
People ex, what I discovered through thatperiod of time was that people assign
your gender within seconds of seeing you.
(13:36):
Mm-hmm.
It's instinctive.
It happens automatically.
That's when I decided, yeah, okay.
Now it's up to me not to confuse them.
Oh, interesting.
So that began doing a lot of work onresearching behaviors, mannerisms, body
(13:57):
language, how you walk, how you talk.
Um,
Lynn (14:01):
and I had never thought about that.
But you do have tochange all those things.
Wendy (14:05):
Exactly.
And I
Lynn (14:06):
think you and I talked about all of a sudden you were carrying a purse.
Wendy (14:10):
Oh, the first time I had to.
Open up a purse, get my wallet out,pay for my coffee, put everything
back together, not hold up the line,
and then carry everything over togo put the cream and the sugar and
all the other stuff in whatever.
That in and of itself was anexperience, a new experience
(14:34):
that my male facsimile never had.
Lynn (14:37):
Yeah.
Wendy (14:38):
And had no clue over.
Imagine there were a lot of firsts.
Everything is a first.
Yes.
My second day as Wendy, I went fromhaving not crossed dressed in 35 years
because I couldn't stand to do it.
It hurt to take everything off'cause it was a reminder of.
(15:01):
What I couldn't be that I couldn't be me,so I hadn't crossed dressed in 35 years.
I hadn't done anything thatwas even remotely feminine.
And from January of 2015 into Julyof 2015, I went from male to female.
Six months.
(15:21):
That's pretty fast.
One of the things within mycommunity is transition's very
difficult and it takes a long time.
If that's what you believe it will.
Lynn (15:34):
But it doesn't have to be.
Wendy (15:36):
It doesn't have to be.
I and several of myclients are proof of that.
I did it in six months.
I have a client that did it in six weeks.
Lynn (15:45):
Wow.
And things like makeup andhair and clothes and all.
If you hadn't done anyof that for 35 years.
What did it take for you tofigure out how to even just
change your outward appearance?
Wendy (15:58):
I started very simply just buying things basically online.
Have 'em shipped to thehouse and experiment.
Lynn (16:06):
Hmm.
Wendy (16:07):
But I came to the realization that I needed help, and when it
comes right down to it, littlegirls don't learn this on their own.
Lynn (16:17):
No.
Wendy (16:18):
They're taught by their mothers, their friends, and it's something
that evolves and they grow up with.
Lynn (16:25):
Yeah,
Wendy (16:25):
I didn't have any of that.
I had just the reverse.
Lynn (16:31):
None of that.
Wendy (16:32):
None of that.
This is where I had to developsome thick skin and some nerve.
Lynn (16:40):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (16:41):
To actually go and ask for help.
One of the first places I did was I wasseeing a woman for electrolysis that's
to get facial hair plucked and removed.
Lynn (16:55):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (16:56):
I was talking with her.
It turns out she's a cosmetologist alsoat a beauty salon, and she encouraged me
to just come on in and I'm going down.
I'm still not going out as Wendy.
At this point, that much, so Idon't know, blah, blah, blah.
She told me, she goes, thebeauty industry is very open.
(17:20):
It doesn't really matter.
Come in however you want to guy or asyourself, and let's take some lessons.
I paid her for three differentsessions to learn to do my makeup
and what colors would work.
All the things, all the littledetails that I had no clue what to do.
(17:43):
That was the one of the,uh, best investments I made.
She taught me and taught me very well.
I. She did
Lynn (17:50):
teach you well 'cause you look fabulous.
Wendy (17:53):
Thank you.
Lynn (17:54):
You just look amazing.
Yes.
Wendy (17:57):
But I got recommendations on products and there was a lot of the
things that she had that were importedfor from Germany that were really good.
And in comparison to the stuff youbuy in the super, uh, supermarket,
the drugstore, and even departmentstores, this stuff was really good.
Lynn (18:16):
Hmm.
Wendy (18:17):
And it lasted.
Lynn (18:18):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (18:19):
I learned a lot about makeup with that.
When I started going as Wendy andall, and I had gotten to the point
where I was living full-time asWendy in July, I would go there and I
thoroughly enjoyed having my nails done.
Lynn (18:36):
Okay.
Wendy (18:37):
One of the little jokes during one of my earlier therapy sessions, I looked
at Steph and I said, I did my nails lastnight so that I, they would be nice.
When I came in today, I. And Igotta go home, take all this off.
I can't wait until I can wearit long enough to wear it.
(18:58):
Chips and I have to,
Lynn (19:00):
oh.
Oh.
Wendy (19:03):
So my nails have been done.
Beautiful.
And I keep them done all the time.
Lynn (19:09):
Yeah.
Wendy (19:10):
Just, it's part of my self care.
Lynn (19:13):
And if you feel good doing that here, you're talking to someone who.
Is somewhat vain, you know?
Sure.
And I, I don't go out of thehouse without makeup and Right.
I like looking nice.
And that's what you're talking abouttoo, how that makes you feel good inside.
If I went out of the housewith my hair not done, and no
makeup on and floppy mm-hmm.
(19:35):
I wouldn't feel good.
You're doing things as we women do.
Mm-hmm.
To make ourselves feel good.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Wendy (19:45):
And bottom line, that's what life is about, is feeling
Lynn (19:48):
good.
And then you're coming across withother people, you're interacting with
other people in a different way thanif you're don't want anybody to see
me 'cause I didn't do my hair andmy makeup and that kind of thing.
Uhhuh, you gonna interactdifferently with people.
Wendy (20:01):
Your whole energy is gonna be different.
Completely different.
Lynn (20:04):
Yes.
So why not exactly.
Wendy (20:08):
Yeah, and this was all the stuff that those little life tests
gave me as I was going through thisprocess of basically opening up my
mind to being, this is all possible.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, I can do this.
Yes.
And.
Okay.
There might be some difficulties.
(20:29):
I might have some issues.
People might figure me out and be meanand nasty about it and all of that.
Okay.
Then I don't need to have them in my life.
Exactly.
That's the way I startedjust looking at things.
It's like whatever'spossible, I'm gonna try.
Lynn (20:44):
Yeah.
Wendy (20:45):
My mantra became like the Nike slogan.
Just do it.
One of the things I learned veryquickly is we all make excuses.
Not to try something.
Oh, yes, I'm tired.
I don't think I feel like doing it today.
No.
Whenever I start to feel that way, that'swhen I, it's time to lace up the sneakers
(21:09):
and go out and do it, or you know.
Yes.
Lynn (21:12):
Whatever it
Wendy (21:13):
is,
Lynn (21:13):
just do it.
Don't let yourself getaway with that excuse.
Right.
Wendy (21:18):
You know mean those are just excuses.
And for people like me, one ofthe big excuses is I'm too old.
Lynn (21:26):
Oh
Wendy (21:26):
yeah.
There is no such thing.
If you have at least decent health and youcan move around, and you can get around
and take care of yourself and all of that,
Lynn (21:38):
you're not too old to be yourself.
No.
In fact, one of the women Iinterviewed for the book was 89
years old when she set the GuinnessWorld Record for the oldest person.
To Summit Mount Kilimanjaro, which isover 14,000 feet, and she's still going.
She's 93 years old and she's stillgoing, did Machu Picchu last summer.
Wendy (21:58):
Wow.
Lynn (21:58):
She's not too old and moving.
You're talking about using themetaphor lace up, you're sneakers.
Just getting out there, moving anddoing things and staying active and
keeping your brain active, whichis a lot of what you're doing.
Mm-hmm.
You're, you don't look75, you don't act 75.
No.
Whatever.
75 is, you know, I keep saying towhatever it's, well, this is 74
Wendy (22:21):
and I'll be 76 soon.
Lynn (22:24):
I know.
Wendy (22:25):
I'm not done living No way.
No, I did try TI retirement very briefly.
It was boring.
Lynn (22:36):
Yeah, I know.
Why do that?
So what other things on this transition,so even before you had surgery,
the six months you started livingauthentically as Wendy looking, right?
Like Wendy, is that when youmoved out of your marriage?
Wendy (22:53):
I moved, I, I moved out of my house.
My wife and I got divorced.
We tried to sell the house.
But the market was so horrible.
It was, we were down togiving it away prices.
Yeah.
And we talked about it and decided,no, we'll leave it out of the divorce.
We'll continue to own the house jointlyand deal with it at a later date.
(23:17):
And she stayed in the house.
I moved out, my daughter and thegrandkids moved into the house with her.
And I lived about 35, 40 milesaway for the next five years.
Lynn (23:33):
Hmm.
Wendy (23:34):
And my ex-wife's statement a few years ago was, it's great that you moved
out and did what you did on your own.
You never would'vetransitioned nearly as well.
Living here and staying
Lynn (23:49):
here,
Wendy (23:49):
she's absolutely
Lynn (23:50):
right.
So was she supportive of this?
What was her situation?
Uh,
Wendy (23:57):
I found out in 2015 during one of our early conversations
when I said I, I was gonna starthormone therapy on March 4th, 2015.
And she said, we didn't discuss it andI said, no, there's nothing to discuss.
This is something that I need todo and I have to do it for me.
(24:18):
And she said, okay, sowe're gonna get a divorce.
You're going to develop breast.
Lord knows what else you're going to do.
And I'm not a lesbian.
And uh, so we're getting divorced.
So that prompted me in 20 19 78when I first told her about this.
(24:40):
And I expected we would be divorcedsoon thereafter, and we weren't.
And she decided that we weregoing to stay together as long as
I didn't do anything about this.
Hmm.
And so I didn't bother asking 'cause I knew I had no options that,
Lynn (24:58):
yeah.
Wendy (24:59):
And so.
Finally in 2015, I did ask, whydidn't we get divorced back then?
And I found out that it was because shedidn't want to move back to Philadelphia
to live with her parents in a uh, row homein northeast Philly with the two kids.
Lynn (25:22):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (25:24):
And she felt stuck.
Lynn (25:27):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (25:29):
I didn't know that was for sure that was going on then, but from,
especially from 78 on, that was my guilt.
Oh
Lynn (25:40):
yeah.
Wendy (25:41):
I married her.
I didn't, I wasn't upfront.
I lied by omission.
Lynn (25:47):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (25:49):
I just didn't tell her about any of this from my past.
Yeah.
And it's all because I was encouragedto go ahead and get married.
Go ahead, have a career, have awife, have a house and family, and
you'll forget all about being a girl.
And, but you didn't.
(26:11):
And I knew I probably wouldn't,but I tried every other option.
Lynn (26:17):
Yeah, that's what society expected at that point too.
You were Exactly.
You were going with whatyou had to do at the time.
But yeah, that guilt, thatthat could weigh heavy.
Yeah,
Wendy (26:29):
it is a very heavy burden.
Lynn (26:31):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (26:32):
And it does no one any good.
Lynn (26:35):
No,
Wendy (26:36):
it didn't do her any good, and it definitely didn't do me any
good either, but that was that.
I did let go of that very quickly.
Oh, you did?
Okay.
There's been a lot of forgiveness in this.
I forgave my parents, even though theythreatened to commit me and get me fixed.
Lynn (26:54):
Yeah,
Wendy (26:54):
and my whole relationship with my father over all of this was horrible.
There were a whole bunch of things inhis life that contributed very heavily to
this, and he was actually married to hisfirst wife and living with my mother and
I for the first eight years of my life.
Lynn (27:16):
No kidding.
Wendy (27:17):
He was a bigamist.
Lynn (27:20):
He wasn't mar Was he married to your mother?
Yeah,
Wendy (27:23):
not legally, not
Lynn (27:24):
really, but living as if he were.
Wendy (27:28):
The story is that one of his Navy buddies during World War
II in Houston, Texas, where he wasstationed, one of his Navy buddies,
played the minister and married them.
Research by familymembers and all of that.
We found out that there wasno marriage certificate.
Lynn (27:46):
Mm-hmm.
In
Wendy (27:47):
Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Louisiana, none.
And the first time theywere married was in 1956.
Lynn (28:00):
Hmm.
Wendy (28:01):
And that was when he got divorced from his first wife, and all
of this was so he could have a son.
Oh.
That was the motivation.
He wanted the son
Lynn (28:12):
that he thought you were to continue the family name.
Okay.
So you had kids and youcompleted that obligation?
Uh, yeah.
Wendy (28:23):
And oh God, he, it seems that the Cole family came over to the
Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1637.
He was the last male heir to that.
Lynn (28:36):
Okay.
So it was
Wendy (28:36):
important to him to have a son and his first wife had two daughters.
Lynn (28:43):
Okay.
Wendy (28:44):
My, my second half sister was one year older than me, almost exactly.
He's a busy guy.
He still tried to have ason with his first wife.
This all unfolded in 2001 when he died.
Lynn (29:04):
Oh, interesting.
Uncovering all of this stuff.
Uh,
Wendy (29:09):
so yeah, there was.
When I said that I was a girl atage 10, when I tried the transition
in 1970, none of this went wellwith him, and now I understand why.
Yeah.
But back then I didn't know why theextreme reactions, and it was intense.
(29:29):
Yeah, my first, uh, my, I moved into myfirst apartment as Wendy in July of 2015.
That first six months was just amazing.
Lynn (29:40):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (29:41):
Everything was brand new.
You're experiencing everythingfor the first time from a
completely different perspective.
Lynn (29:50):
So interesting.
So everything you did then asa woman you hadn't done before?
Man, new.
Exactly.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah,
Wendy (29:58):
it's like a complete rebirth and it just feels so amazing.
So it felt like thiswas really who you are.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just felt natural, and that's whatwas so amazing to me is each time I did
one of those little life experiencesand tried something, it just felt so
natural and, and I'd look around to see ifpeople were checking me out or whatever,
(30:25):
and nobody was, no, it's all good.
My goal when I started.
Was, and I probably madethis goal up sometime around
February or March of that year.
I just wanted to blend intosociety as any other woman, period.
That's it.
Don't know what that looks like yet.
Lynn (30:42):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (30:43):
But that's my objective, just blend in.
And much to my amazement, evenin my little life tests for
those moments, I blend it in.
It worked.
Lynn (30:54):
So you did that.
That came easily then you didn't havemissed approaches on different things.
Wendy (31:01):
Oh, I'm sure there are things that I did, which could have given
me away and all of that, but I reallystarted, I've always been aware of women.
Lynn (31:11):
Oh,
Wendy (31:11):
okay.
And studied them.
Lynn (31:14):
Even as a young boy.
Yeah.
Huh.
Wendy (31:16):
Exactly.
But
Lynn (31:17):
not the way young boys usually study women.
Wendy (31:19):
Exactly.
Okay.
There is a distinct difference.
Lynn (31:23):
Yes,
Wendy (31:23):
yes.
I was studying becausethat's who I really was.
Lynn (31:30):
Hmm.
Wendy (31:31):
And I wanted to know what they were doing, how they were feeling,
what they were experiencing, andus highly envious of everything.
So.
Here I am now.
I'm out there experiencing this.
Okay.
How am I doing?
(31:51):
I don't know.
Lynn (31:52):
Okay.
Do you feel like there's stilltests or that you're testing
yourself or others are testing you?
Right now it's
Wendy (32:01):
more of a, a habitual routines.
Uh, a lot of that there are newexperiences, but they're not as frequent
like for the first two years, likeright up until my surgery, everything.
There was so many experiencesevery day that were new.
Lynn (32:19):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (32:20):
I know this sounds silly, but the first time you're standing out there
pumping gas into your car on a windy day
with your skirt
Lynn (32:30):
blowing up
Wendy (32:31):
the skirts, the hair, the whole bit, but that's, you got in
the car the first time I go, wow.
Put myself back together
Lynn (32:41):
again.
That's so interesting because asas a woman, you never think of
that, you never even think of that.
You just automatically put yourselfback together 'cause Uhhuh, but
so you are so super aware ofeverything and you still are
Wendy (32:58):
to a good degree.
Yes.
I really believe in three things.
Self-awareness.
Self-acceptance and self-love.
Yeah.
All three of those are so important.
And one of the things that I got,especially through working with
Stephanie during my first six monthswas I removed all the blocks from those.
Lynn (33:18):
That's pretty amazing.
You could do that quickly.
Wendy (33:21):
It felt right.
Yeah.
I was ready.
I was ready to make thatcommitment to myself.
And one of my, one of my friends whowent through this, she was in a support
group that I was running at the time.
Holly was her name.
And we both started our transitions thesame year, pretty much the same month.
(33:44):
Did surgeries the same year,within months of one another.
So she called us the sevenyear sisters 'cause we had
been seven years at that time.
And she had a very good pointduring one of our conversations.
Anyone going through this particularlife change, you need to be very selfish.
Lynn (34:06):
Okay?
Tell us about being selfish.
Wendy (34:09):
You need to focus on yourself completely and totally.
Ideally, there's no room forcompromise because any compromises
you make compromise youroverall transition experience.
Lynn (34:24):
Hmm.
Wendy (34:25):
That's one of the reasons why when my wife said to me,
we're getting divorced, I readilyagreed because I know her.
I know me.
Lynn (34:36):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (34:36):
And together, whatever I was going to do would have been a discussion.
A compromise and an agreement.
Lynn (34:45):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (34:46):
And I knew I wasn't really willing to do that.
Lynn (34:50):
So better that you were living on your own.
So nobody's influencing anythingthey think you ought to be doing.
Wendy (34:56):
Right.
And when I come and go andwherever I'm going, whatever
I'm doing, I. That's on me.
There's no one that I'm negotiating with.
No spouse, no partner, no one else.
Lynn (35:09):
So that probably made the transition quicker because you weren't compromising,
you weren't any of that back and forth.
It sounds like you just set your goal.
Wendy (35:18):
Mm-hmm.
Lynn (35:19):
Took the action and then did the work that you needed to do,
Wendy (35:22):
and each time you take that step forward and you do something.
The next time you go to dosomething new, it's easier.
Lynn (35:32):
Like you were talking about going different places, dressed as a woman at
the beginning and nobody even noticed
Wendy (35:38):
it was, uh, a nice, uh, bar, restaurant that was on the way
to the town that I was living in.
New Hope, Pennsylvania.
I always wanted to go there, butmy wife didn't for some reason.
I don't know why it was.
Just a nice restaurant,but they did have two bars.
Okay.
So that's a drawback for some people.
Anyway, I decided that my second day asWendy living full-time, yeah, I wanna
(36:04):
go out and have lunch, and I decidedthat I was going to go there myself.
By myself for lunch.
Never been in a restaurant as Wendynever sat down and ordered a meal, never
did any of that brand new experience.
First time.
Loved it.
Had a blast
(36:26):
engaged with the server.
That was all perfectly fine.
Nobody acted like I wasanything different other than.
Wendy, that was all there was to it.
Yeah.
Lynn (36:39):
Wow.
This is great.
So then that just kept reinforcing it.
Wendy (36:46):
Yeah.
See it was the day before I'd goneto the supermarket for the first
time, grocery shopping as myself.
Yes,
and the first time that I signed my name was for my store discount card.
I decided, okay, I'm notgonna cop out on this.
I'm just gonna go do it.
Okay.
I got
in line with everybody else, walked up to the service desk, got my
(37:07):
card, signed my name, put my addressin there, and all that good stuff.
Off I went and going, yeah, that was easy.
Interesting.
These little tests that you gaveyourself, Uhhuh, and it's all
these little experiences thatcome up and they just continued.
Yeah.
(37:29):
Uh, so are there
Lynn (37:29):
any
Wendy (37:29):
firsts now because it's been eight years?
Um, yeah.
I'm going into my ninth year.
Yeah.
First this year I packed up,I, I packed up a house in 2023.
My ex and I finally agreed that itwas time to sell it and we sold it.
There was a lot of workinvolved in doing that,
(37:52):
and
it took me the first six months in order to make that all happen.
At the time, I had no ideareally where I was going to live.
I put that out to the universethat I would figure it out.
Lynn (38:04):
Yeah.
Wendy (38:05):
I didn't have time during the cleaning out of the house or the selling
or anything like that to really look atany length where I was going to live.
So after closing, I wentand checked into a hotel.
Okay.
I was exhausted.
I went to sleep at nine 30 thatnight and didn't wake up until two
(38:27):
o'clock the following afternoon.
I had been networking with some peoplein New England and I got interested
in moving back to New England,and that's what I wound up doing.
Lynn (38:40):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (38:41):
So, did I know anyone here?
No.
Just one.
One or two people whowere LinkedIn Connections.
Lynn (38:49):
Okay.
So nobody that you really knew.
Wendy (38:51):
Nobody.
I decided, ah, this isa growth experience.
Go there.
Find a place to live and start overin a place I've never been to as
an adult and don't know anyone.
Lynn (39:04):
That sounds like a big first to be doing what?
Whether you're all of a sudden doingthat as a woman when you used to be
doing things like that as a man, or justfor anybody, that's a big move to make
Wendy (39:16):
Uhhuh.
Lynn (39:16):
That's a big first,
Wendy (39:19):
and I do firmly believe that these are all growth experiences.
Yeah.
On top of that, I laid indoing these interviews,
Lynn (39:29):
yes.
Wendy (39:29):
Because I got sick and tired of hearing people on politicians
and religious people and all ofthat, talking about people like me.
Lynn (39:39):
Mm-hmm.
And that's, and knowingnothing about them.
Wendy (39:42):
Exactly.
Lynn (39:43):
Yes,
Wendy (39:44):
I decided, okay, enough's enough.
I'm gonna start putting myself outthere and doing this, and that way
at least I'm a counter to them,
Lynn (39:54):
thank goodness.
So we're gonna stop this interview rightnow and Wendy will be back for more as we
continue this conversation about her life.
Thank you for being here today, Wendy, andthank you to the audience for joining us.
I know that you found this fascinating,so be sure to like, subscribe, share this
out with people who would be interested.
(40:15):
We're all about educating people what it'slike to be born transgender, so help us
share that out and be sure and subscribe.
Whether you're listening on podcast orYouTube, please subscribe to our channels.
If you wanna contact Wendy, look for herwebsite, which is meet wendy cole.com.
That's meet wendy cole.com, and we'llhave that information in the show notes.
Please reach out to her.
(40:35):
She's an amazing coach and amazing mentor.
Thank you for being here today.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphy, founderof Women Who Push the Limits and
to mystifying Transgender journey.
So tune in next time for anotheramazing conversation with Wendy Cole.
We'll see you then.
Thanks next time on demystifyingthe Transgender Journey.
Wendy (40:55):
I don't think I achieved anywhere near what I could have
academically and professionally in life.
I didn't come close to my potential.
I know how I feel now and how I am now.
Had I been that way back in my late teensand early twenties and all the way through
(41:19):
things could have been very different.
Lynn (41:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wendy (41:22):
Because this affected everything.
Lynn (41:26):
Thank you for joining us today on this episode of
Demystifying the Transgender Journey.
Remember to subscribe so youdon't miss a single episode
of our fascinating interviews.
You can also find more information onour website, the transgender journey.com.
So until next time, staycurious and stay kind.
Anyone going through this?
You need to be very selfish.
You need to focus on yourselfcompletely and totally.
Ideally, there's no room forcompromise because any compromises
you make compromise youroverall transition experience.
Lynn (00:20):
What do you really know about people who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious but hesitant to ask questions.
Well, welcome to demystifying theTransgender Journey in our conversations
with people who were born transgender,their families, friends, and the
professionals who support them, weask probing questions and discover
(00:40):
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find more information onour website, the transgender journey.com.
Now, let's get right into today's episode.
Last time on demystifyingthe transgender journey.
I can't go back and redo these
Wendy (00:56):
67 years, so make the best of what I've got going forward.
I went from living as a guy toliving as a woman full-time.
Six months.
I was about 70 poundsheavier than I am now.
I was type two diabetic.
My blood work was horrible.
Emotionally and physically.
I was a mess.
Once I frightened out my whole mentalprocess, the thoughts and the beliefs that
(01:20):
I have, all of that started to change.
It is our minds.
That can affect our health.
I was living full-time by July of2015, had surgery in August of 2017.
Most wonderful experiencein my entire life.
I hear a lot of peoplesay, well, I'm too old.
(01:40):
I. I still feel like I'm inmy twenties and thirties.
Yeah.
Never too old to be yourself.
Lynn (01:45):
Welcome to another episode of Demystifying the Transgender
Journey, brought to you byWomen Who Push the Limits.
I'm your host Lynn Murphy, and I'mfounder of Women Who Push the Limits
and author of the bestselling 50Life Lessons from Inspiring Women.
For today's episode, I'm continuingto interview the amazing Wendy Cole.
Wendy was born transgender andtransitioned at 67 years old from
(02:09):
living in a man's body, which sheknew was not really who she was to
living her authentic life as thewoman that she was meant to be.
When we were recorded.
This episode, she was 75 years old.
If you haven't listened to thoseepisodes, be sure and find those.
Wendy and I have had suchinsightful conversations that we
knew we needed to continue doingmore episodes of this podcast.
(02:30):
So Wendy and I agreed that she would comeback for more interviews, and today we're
gonna pick up where we left off before.
Today she's gonna talk about herexperiences of blending in and some of her
first experiences of living as a woman.
So Wendy, welcome back to theshow and thank you so much for
sharing so authentically and suchfascinating story about your life.
Wendy (02:50):
Thank you for having me, and I really enjoyed doing this with
you, and I think it's important,
Lynn (02:55):
and that's what I think too.
It's important that peopleunderstand people who are different.
There's a song that popped into myhead that I learned when I was a kid.
We sang it in school orin church or something.
It was let there be Peace onEarth and let it begin With me.
Mm-hmm.
And talking about we're all brothers or brothers and sisters.
Right.
Wrote it back in those days when they.
(03:16):
Weren't quite as worried about that, but
Wendy (03:19):
yeah.
Lynn (03:19):
And so let us, let's walk with our brothers and sisters in perfect harmony.
Mm-hmm.
And I think interviewing you andgetting the word out that you've been
so gracious to share and so authenticand open, I think that just helps
everybody get to, to the point wheremaybe we'll walk in more harmony.
And Lynn,
Wendy (03:40):
the reason that I started doing this was how many people have ever had
the opportunity to meet a person like me?
I. Or talk to someone like me.
Yeah.
Or even comprehend what my lifehas been like over the decades.
And that's what I wanna share because Iwant to remove that mystery, that mystique
(04:04):
about it That, that it's something reallystrange and different because I'm not
that much different from anyone else.
We're all human.
Lynn (04:12):
Yeah,
Wendy (04:13):
I just happened to have been born with a different condition
that until 2012 was not sociallyacceptable to even discuss, and
the medical community wouldn't haveanything to do with it until 2012.
Lynn (04:27):
And you talked about how at three years old you knew you were a girl.
Mm-hmm.
It was so obvious.
At 10 years old you told your parentsand they threatened you with psychiatric.
Treatment.
That was horrendous.
Exactly.
We talked about that last time.
So how you buried that and the thingthat I remember from that last interview
was talking about the depression andthe frustration and the anger that
(04:51):
that was just part of you all the time.
And to Wendy to live like thatfor so many decades exactly.
Had to be incredibly difficult.
Wendy (05:03):
It was very difficult.
And it was fraught with many perils ofthings that I could have done, tried
to do whatever, some very dark periods.
Lynn (05:17):
So tell us, you said it was 2015 is when you finally made the decision.
So let's go to that point and talk aboutwhat is it that that kind of precipitated
that decision at 67 years old to not.
With all that weight to carry
Wendy (05:37):
all that baggage.
It just, yeah, I hit a very darkperiod in late 2014, and I've always
had the periods of suicidal ideation.
This was really bad.
And I was almost ready to sitdown and do it, but I hadn't.
(05:57):
I had intentional, I struggled somuch to repress all of this and to
bury it and hold it back that I neverallowed myself to go look online on the
internet to see if anything has changed.
Lynn (06:14):
So you were that repressed.
Wendy (06:16):
That repressed,
Lynn (06:18):
because by that point the internet had all kinds of things on it, but if
you never looked, that's just amazing.
Wow.
Okay.
I never
Wendy (06:25):
looked because it was such a struggle to repress it all.
Lynn (06:28):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (06:29):
I'm not exaggerating that this was something that was with me day and
night, and as I said in our previousconversation, just distractions
are what helped me get through.
That
and psychiatrists who would prescribe lots of meds,
Lynn (06:48):
which didn't really help the problem,
Wendy (06:49):
it just buried it and masked it.
And I was living in a,I was living in a fog.
My one and only real close friend fromhigh school was living in Asheville,
North Carolina at the time, and I calledhim up and I told him about me and
what I was doing and he said, wow, Ihad no idea about any of this when we
(07:12):
were together back in high school and.
You're do living this way.
And I said, yeah.
And he goes, you were living in a fog.
Mm-hmm.
And he, he was right.
Absolutely right.
But that's what the psych meds do.
And so anyway, I looked it up,started poking around online on the
internet back when I. In 1970, therewas no internet to look up any of
(07:36):
this stuff on, and I had no knowledgeof what was going on then either.
I just knew what I needed to do.
I found out that all of a sudden, nowit's in 20, as of 2012, it's no longer
a psychological condition that you'reborn with, no treatment and no cure,
but it's a condition you're born withthat's treatable by therapy, by hormone
(07:57):
replacement therapy, and any necessarysurgeries that you feel you need.
And at that point, uh, this hadbeen going on, this had changed
like two and a half years earlier.
I was married at the time and atthat point I left my computer, went
upstairs and informed my wife that.
(08:18):
Remember what we had talked about in 1978?
Yep.
Lynn (08:21):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (08:22):
Okay.
It's here.
It didn't go away.
It's still with me andI'm getting therapy.
I don't know where thisis going to lead yet.
I have no idea.
And Lynn, at that point intime, I never envisioned being
able to do what I am have done.
Lynn (08:40):
Oh yeah.
Wendy (08:42):
That's how repressed it was.
That's how much I didn't even thinkit was possible at that point.
I just knew I had to take astep forward and do something.
And that opened up a wholenew world then, didn't it?
Oh my God, that was incredible.
Thank
Lynn (09:01):
goodness you found that.
Wendy (09:03):
I know one of the things that I gained out of my first six
months of therapy was gratefulness.
Grateful to my male facsimilefor not having killed me.
Lynn (09:17):
Oh, yes.
Wendy (09:18):
For not having made me a drug addict or an alcoholic,
all of which were very possible.
Lynn (09:24):
Yeah.
To cover all that up, to suppressit even more, just to tune out.
Right, exactly.
And there was a lot of strength in you.
Miss Wendy, a lot of strength.
Wendy (09:36):
I, I'm grateful that I survived.
Yes.
And.
And my, I don't know if I mentioned it in our earlier conversation,
but my first therapy session withStephanie was just phenomenal.
She was the very first person I everhad the opportunity to speak with since
1970, amazing, 45 years, four and a halfdecades repressing, holding everything
(10:04):
back, hiding, living with shame, fear.
Guilt for having tried tofit in and gotten married.
Guilt for having gone through all of itand uh, brought another person into my
life that ultimately had to deal with this
Lynn (10:22):
too.
Wendy (10:23):
Wow.
Lynn (10:23):
That's a lot of guilt to carry.
That's a lot of guilt.
And you had two children with your wife.
Wendy (10:28):
It's, it was a lot.
But that first step forward into therapyand in that first therapy session, just
pouring my heart out and really, itjust felt so much relief, like weight
was lifting off of me because now I'msharing how I feel with another person
Lynn (10:45):
who's accepting.
Wendy (10:47):
Exactly.
There was no judgment there whatsoever.
And.
When I stood up to leave, and thisis the part of it that was just
empowering, absolutely amazing, wasshe's sitting there with my file
folder and it's got my mail facsimilename written on it, and she looks up
at me and she goes, what's your name?
Just very simple question like that.
(11:08):
What's your name?
She had no idea what the answer wouldbe, and I just instinctively said.
Wendy, and then to my joy amazement,just total a weight just lifted from me.
I watched her scratch out the othername and write Wendy on the file.
That's so cool, and from that day forward.
(11:30):
I was windy.
Lynn (11:30):
Mm-hmm.
As far
Wendy (11:31):
as she was concerned, that was it.
That was incredibly powerfuland it started to help me see
that, yeah, somebody acceptedme for this and it was an
Lynn (11:41):
outward sign.
And you talked about doing inner worktoo, but then it seems like having that
label on it, something about seeingit written there right now, Wendy.
And I've
Wendy (11:53):
been carrying that name with me from grammar school.
Lynn (11:58):
So you've always been Wendy, you just Right.
Hadn't shared it with anybody.
'cause nobody was gonnaaccept that until Stephanie.
Exactly.
Wendy (12:05):
It's, I went through that first six months of therapy and on the way to
therapy, on the way home from therapy.
Those were my days to goout in public as Wendy.
Every Thursday as I was doing that,I would give myself life tests, go
and do something that I wanted todo, be be seen by other people, be
(12:28):
out in public, and I would dream uplittle things to do along the way.
Lynn (12:34):
So you gave yourself your own tests?
Wendy (12:36):
Yes.
Lynn (12:38):
You were committed to this, weren't you?
Wendy (12:40):
I had to find out if I could do it.
I had no idea if I could do it or not.
But what has shifted in me, and it'ssomething that I work with in people in
my coaching work, is I. How do we changeour thoughts so that we can be open
(13:00):
to new beliefs and new possibilities?
One of my very early life tests was goingto Dunking Donuts and getting coffee
on the way to, on the way to therapy.
Yeah.
Lynn (13:12):
You couldn't cheat by going
Wendy (13:13):
through
Lynn (13:13):
the drive-through, could you?
Wendy (13:14):
Exactly.
No.
It was just a lot of.
Let's go try this.
Let's go walk around the supermarket.
Let's go walk through town at differenttimes and see that it didn't matter.
People ex, what I discovered through thatperiod of time was that people assign
your gender within seconds of seeing you.
(13:36):
Mm-hmm.
It's instinctive.
It happens automatically.
That's when I decided, yeah, okay.
Now it's up to me not to confuse them.
Oh, interesting.
So that began doing a lot of work onresearching behaviors, mannerisms, body
(13:57):
language, how you walk, how you talk.
Um,
Lynn (14:01):
and I had never thought about that.
But you do have tochange all those things.
Wendy (14:05):
Exactly.
And I
Lynn (14:06):
think you and I talked about all of a sudden you were carrying a purse.
Wendy (14:10):
Oh, the first time I had to.
Open up a purse, get my wallet out,pay for my coffee, put everything
back together, not hold up the line,
and then carry everything over togo put the cream and the sugar and
all the other stuff in whatever.
That in and of itself was anexperience, a new experience
(14:34):
that my male facsimile never had.
Lynn (14:37):
Yeah.
Wendy (14:38):
And had no clue over.
Imagine there were a lot of firsts.
Everything is a first.
Yes.
My second day as Wendy, I went fromhaving not crossed dressed in 35 years
because I couldn't stand to do it.
It hurt to take everything off'cause it was a reminder of.
(15:01):
What I couldn't be that I couldn't be me,so I hadn't crossed dressed in 35 years.
I hadn't done anything thatwas even remotely feminine.
And from January of 2015 into Julyof 2015, I went from male to female.
Six months.
(15:21):
That's pretty fast.
One of the things within mycommunity is transition's very
difficult and it takes a long time.
If that's what you believe it will.
Lynn (15:34):
But it doesn't have to be.
Wendy (15:36):
It doesn't have to be.
I and several of myclients are proof of that.
I did it in six months.
I have a client that did it in six weeks.
Lynn (15:45):
Wow.
And things like makeup andhair and clothes and all.
If you hadn't done anyof that for 35 years.
What did it take for you tofigure out how to even just
change your outward appearance?
Wendy (15:58):
I started very simply just buying things basically online.
Have 'em shipped to thehouse and experiment.
Lynn (16:06):
Hmm.
Wendy (16:07):
But I came to the realization that I needed help, and when it
comes right down to it, littlegirls don't learn this on their own.
Lynn (16:17):
No.
Wendy (16:18):
They're taught by their mothers, their friends, and it's something
that evolves and they grow up with.
Lynn (16:25):
Yeah,
Wendy (16:25):
I didn't have any of that.
I had just the reverse.
Lynn (16:31):
None of that.
Wendy (16:32):
None of that.
This is where I had to developsome thick skin and some nerve.
Lynn (16:40):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (16:41):
To actually go and ask for help.
One of the first places I did was I wasseeing a woman for electrolysis that's
to get facial hair plucked and removed.
Lynn (16:55):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (16:56):
I was talking with her.
It turns out she's a cosmetologist alsoat a beauty salon, and she encouraged me
to just come on in and I'm going down.
I'm still not going out as Wendy.
At this point, that much, so Idon't know, blah, blah, blah.
She told me, she goes, thebeauty industry is very open.
(17:20):
It doesn't really matter.
Come in however you want to guy or asyourself, and let's take some lessons.
I paid her for three differentsessions to learn to do my makeup
and what colors would work.
All the things, all the littledetails that I had no clue what to do.
(17:43):
That was the one of the,uh, best investments I made.
She taught me and taught me very well.
I. She did
Lynn (17:50):
teach you well 'cause you look fabulous.
Wendy (17:53):
Thank you.
Lynn (17:54):
You just look amazing.
Yes.
Wendy (17:57):
But I got recommendations on products and there was a lot of the
things that she had that were importedfor from Germany that were really good.
And in comparison to the stuff youbuy in the super, uh, supermarket,
the drugstore, and even departmentstores, this stuff was really good.
Lynn (18:16):
Hmm.
Wendy (18:17):
And it lasted.
Lynn (18:18):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (18:19):
I learned a lot about makeup with that.
When I started going as Wendy andall, and I had gotten to the point
where I was living full-time asWendy in July, I would go there and I
thoroughly enjoyed having my nails done.
Lynn (18:36):
Okay.
Wendy (18:37):
One of the little jokes during one of my earlier therapy sessions, I looked
at Steph and I said, I did my nails lastnight so that I, they would be nice.
When I came in today, I. And Igotta go home, take all this off.
I can't wait until I can wearit long enough to wear it.
(18:58):
Chips and I have to,
Lynn (19:00):
oh.
Oh.
Wendy (19:03):
So my nails have been done.
Beautiful.
And I keep them done all the time.
Lynn (19:09):
Yeah.
Wendy (19:10):
Just, it's part of my self care.
Lynn (19:13):
And if you feel good doing that here, you're talking to someone who.
Is somewhat vain, you know?
Sure.
And I, I don't go out of thehouse without makeup and Right.
I like looking nice.
And that's what you're talking abouttoo, how that makes you feel good inside.
If I went out of the housewith my hair not done, and no
makeup on and floppy mm-hmm.
(19:35):
I wouldn't feel good.
You're doing things as we women do.
Mm-hmm.
To make ourselves feel good.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Wendy (19:45):
And bottom line, that's what life is about, is feeling
Lynn (19:48):
good.
And then you're coming across withother people, you're interacting with
other people in a different way thanif you're don't want anybody to see
me 'cause I didn't do my hair andmy makeup and that kind of thing.
Uhhuh, you gonna interactdifferently with people.
Wendy (20:01):
Your whole energy is gonna be different.
Completely different.
Lynn (20:04):
Yes.
So why not exactly.
Wendy (20:08):
Yeah, and this was all the stuff that those little life tests
gave me as I was going through thisprocess of basically opening up my
mind to being, this is all possible.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, I can do this.
Yes.
And.
Okay.
There might be some difficulties.
(20:29):
I might have some issues.
People might figure me out and be meanand nasty about it and all of that.
Okay.
Then I don't need to have them in my life.
Exactly.
That's the way I startedjust looking at things.
It's like whatever'spossible, I'm gonna try.
Lynn (20:44):
Yeah.
Wendy (20:45):
My mantra became like the Nike slogan.
Just do it.
One of the things I learned veryquickly is we all make excuses.
Not to try something.
Oh, yes, I'm tired.
I don't think I feel like doing it today.
No.
Whenever I start to feel that way, that'swhen I, it's time to lace up the sneakers
(21:09):
and go out and do it, or you know.
Yes.
Lynn (21:12):
Whatever it
Wendy (21:13):
is,
Lynn (21:13):
just do it.
Don't let yourself getaway with that excuse.
Right.
Wendy (21:18):
You know mean those are just excuses.
And for people like me, one ofthe big excuses is I'm too old.
Lynn (21:26):
Oh
Wendy (21:26):
yeah.
There is no such thing.
If you have at least decent health and youcan move around, and you can get around
and take care of yourself and all of that,
Lynn (21:38):
you're not too old to be yourself.
No.
In fact, one of the women Iinterviewed for the book was 89
years old when she set the GuinnessWorld Record for the oldest person.
To Summit Mount Kilimanjaro, which isover 14,000 feet, and she's still going.
She's 93 years old and she's stillgoing, did Machu Picchu last summer.
Wendy (21:58):
Wow.
Lynn (21:58):
She's not too old and moving.
You're talking about using themetaphor lace up, you're sneakers.
Just getting out there, moving anddoing things and staying active and
keeping your brain active, whichis a lot of what you're doing.
Mm-hmm.
You're, you don't look75, you don't act 75.
No.
Whatever.
75 is, you know, I keep saying towhatever it's, well, this is 74
Wendy (22:21):
and I'll be 76 soon.
Lynn (22:24):
I know.
Wendy (22:25):
I'm not done living No way.
No, I did try TI retirement very briefly.
It was boring.
Lynn (22:36):
Yeah, I know.
Why do that?
So what other things on this transition,so even before you had surgery,
the six months you started livingauthentically as Wendy looking, right?
Like Wendy, is that when youmoved out of your marriage?
Wendy (22:53):
I moved, I, I moved out of my house.
My wife and I got divorced.
We tried to sell the house.
But the market was so horrible.
It was, we were down togiving it away prices.
Yeah.
And we talked about it and decided,no, we'll leave it out of the divorce.
We'll continue to own the house jointlyand deal with it at a later date.
(23:17):
And she stayed in the house.
I moved out, my daughter and thegrandkids moved into the house with her.
And I lived about 35, 40 milesaway for the next five years.
Lynn (23:33):
Hmm.
Wendy (23:34):
And my ex-wife's statement a few years ago was, it's great that you moved
out and did what you did on your own.
You never would'vetransitioned nearly as well.
Living here and staying
Lynn (23:49):
here,
Wendy (23:49):
she's absolutely
Lynn (23:50):
right.
So was she supportive of this?
What was her situation?
Uh,
Wendy (23:57):
I found out in 2015 during one of our early conversations
when I said I, I was gonna starthormone therapy on March 4th, 2015.
And she said, we didn't discuss it andI said, no, there's nothing to discuss.
This is something that I need todo and I have to do it for me.
(24:18):
And she said, okay, sowe're gonna get a divorce.
You're going to develop breast.
Lord knows what else you're going to do.
And I'm not a lesbian.
And uh, so we're getting divorced.
So that prompted me in 20 19 78when I first told her about this.
(24:40):
And I expected we would be divorcedsoon thereafter, and we weren't.
And she decided that we weregoing to stay together as long as
I didn't do anything about this.
Hmm.
And so I didn't bother asking 'cause I knew I had no options that,
Lynn (24:58):
yeah.
Wendy (24:59):
And so.
Finally in 2015, I did ask, whydidn't we get divorced back then?
And I found out that it was because shedidn't want to move back to Philadelphia
to live with her parents in a uh, row homein northeast Philly with the two kids.
Lynn (25:22):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (25:24):
And she felt stuck.
Lynn (25:27):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (25:29):
I didn't know that was for sure that was going on then, but from,
especially from 78 on, that was my guilt.
Oh
Lynn (25:40):
yeah.
Wendy (25:41):
I married her.
I didn't, I wasn't upfront.
I lied by omission.
Lynn (25:47):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (25:49):
I just didn't tell her about any of this from my past.
Yeah.
And it's all because I was encouragedto go ahead and get married.
Go ahead, have a career, have awife, have a house and family, and
you'll forget all about being a girl.
And, but you didn't.
(26:11):
And I knew I probably wouldn't,but I tried every other option.
Lynn (26:17):
Yeah, that's what society expected at that point too.
You were Exactly.
You were going with whatyou had to do at the time.
But yeah, that guilt, thatthat could weigh heavy.
Yeah,
Wendy (26:29):
it is a very heavy burden.
Lynn (26:31):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (26:32):
And it does no one any good.
Lynn (26:35):
No,
Wendy (26:36):
it didn't do her any good, and it definitely didn't do me any
good either, but that was that.
I did let go of that very quickly.
Oh, you did?
Okay.
There's been a lot of forgiveness in this.
I forgave my parents, even though theythreatened to commit me and get me fixed.
Lynn (26:54):
Yeah,
Wendy (26:54):
and my whole relationship with my father over all of this was horrible.
There were a whole bunch of things inhis life that contributed very heavily to
this, and he was actually married to hisfirst wife and living with my mother and
I for the first eight years of my life.
Lynn (27:16):
No kidding.
Wendy (27:17):
He was a bigamist.
Lynn (27:20):
He wasn't mar Was he married to your mother?
Yeah,
Wendy (27:23):
not legally, not
Lynn (27:24):
really, but living as if he were.
Wendy (27:28):
The story is that one of his Navy buddies during World War
II in Houston, Texas, where he wasstationed, one of his Navy buddies,
played the minister and married them.
Research by familymembers and all of that.
We found out that there wasno marriage certificate.
Lynn (27:46):
Mm-hmm.
In
Wendy (27:47):
Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Louisiana, none.
And the first time theywere married was in 1956.
Lynn (28:00):
Hmm.
Wendy (28:01):
And that was when he got divorced from his first wife, and all
of this was so he could have a son.
Oh.
That was the motivation.
He wanted the son
Lynn (28:12):
that he thought you were to continue the family name.
Okay.
So you had kids and youcompleted that obligation?
Uh, yeah.
Wendy (28:23):
And oh God, he, it seems that the Cole family came over to the
Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1637.
He was the last male heir to that.
Lynn (28:36):
Okay.
So it was
Wendy (28:36):
important to him to have a son and his first wife had two daughters.
Lynn (28:43):
Okay.
Wendy (28:44):
My, my second half sister was one year older than me, almost exactly.
He's a busy guy.
He still tried to have ason with his first wife.
This all unfolded in 2001 when he died.
Lynn (29:04):
Oh, interesting.
Uncovering all of this stuff.
Uh,
Wendy (29:09):
so yeah, there was.
When I said that I was a girl atage 10, when I tried the transition
in 1970, none of this went wellwith him, and now I understand why.
Yeah.
But back then I didn't know why theextreme reactions, and it was intense.
(29:29):
Yeah, my first, uh, my, I moved into myfirst apartment as Wendy in July of 2015.
That first six months was just amazing.
Lynn (29:40):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (29:41):
Everything was brand new.
You're experiencing everythingfor the first time from a
completely different perspective.
Lynn (29:50):
So interesting.
So everything you did then asa woman you hadn't done before?
Man, new.
Exactly.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah,
Wendy (29:58):
it's like a complete rebirth and it just feels so amazing.
So it felt like thiswas really who you are.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just felt natural, and that's whatwas so amazing to me is each time I did
one of those little life experiencesand tried something, it just felt so
natural and, and I'd look around to see ifpeople were checking me out or whatever,
(30:25):
and nobody was, no, it's all good.
My goal when I started.
Was, and I probably madethis goal up sometime around
February or March of that year.
I just wanted to blend intosociety as any other woman, period.
That's it.
Don't know what that looks like yet.
Lynn (30:42):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (30:43):
But that's my objective, just blend in.
And much to my amazement, evenin my little life tests for
those moments, I blend it in.
It worked.
Lynn (30:54):
So you did that.
That came easily then you didn't havemissed approaches on different things.
Wendy (31:01):
Oh, I'm sure there are things that I did, which could have given
me away and all of that, but I reallystarted, I've always been aware of women.
Lynn (31:11):
Oh,
Wendy (31:11):
okay.
And studied them.
Lynn (31:14):
Even as a young boy.
Yeah.
Huh.
Wendy (31:16):
Exactly.
But
Lynn (31:17):
not the way young boys usually study women.
Wendy (31:19):
Exactly.
Okay.
There is a distinct difference.
Lynn (31:23):
Yes,
Wendy (31:23):
yes.
I was studying becausethat's who I really was.
Lynn (31:30):
Hmm.
Wendy (31:31):
And I wanted to know what they were doing, how they were feeling,
what they were experiencing, andus highly envious of everything.
So.
Here I am now.
I'm out there experiencing this.
Okay.
How am I doing?
(31:51):
I don't know.
Lynn (31:52):
Okay.
Do you feel like there's stilltests or that you're testing
yourself or others are testing you?
Right now it's
Wendy (32:01):
more of a, a habitual routines.
Uh, a lot of that there are newexperiences, but they're not as frequent
like for the first two years, likeright up until my surgery, everything.
There was so many experiencesevery day that were new.
Lynn (32:19):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (32:20):
I know this sounds silly, but the first time you're standing out there
pumping gas into your car on a windy day
with your skirt
Lynn (32:30):
blowing up
Wendy (32:31):
the skirts, the hair, the whole bit, but that's, you got in
the car the first time I go, wow.
Put myself back together
Lynn (32:41):
again.
That's so interesting because asas a woman, you never think of
that, you never even think of that.
You just automatically put yourselfback together 'cause Uhhuh, but
so you are so super aware ofeverything and you still are
Wendy (32:58):
to a good degree.
Yes.
I really believe in three things.
Self-awareness.
Self-acceptance and self-love.
Yeah.
All three of those are so important.
And one of the things that I got,especially through working with
Stephanie during my first six monthswas I removed all the blocks from those.
Lynn (33:18):
That's pretty amazing.
You could do that quickly.
Wendy (33:21):
It felt right.
Yeah.
I was ready.
I was ready to make thatcommitment to myself.
And one of my, one of my friends whowent through this, she was in a support
group that I was running at the time.
Holly was her name.
And we both started our transitions thesame year, pretty much the same month.
(33:44):
Did surgeries the same year,within months of one another.
So she called us the sevenyear sisters 'cause we had
been seven years at that time.
And she had a very good pointduring one of our conversations.
Anyone going through this particularlife change, you need to be very selfish.
Lynn (34:06):
Okay?
Tell us about being selfish.
Wendy (34:09):
You need to focus on yourself completely and totally.
Ideally, there's no room forcompromise because any compromises
you make compromise youroverall transition experience.
Lynn (34:24):
Hmm.
Wendy (34:25):
That's one of the reasons why when my wife said to me,
we're getting divorced, I readilyagreed because I know her.
I know me.
Lynn (34:36):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (34:36):
And together, whatever I was going to do would have been a discussion.
A compromise and an agreement.
Lynn (34:45):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (34:46):
And I knew I wasn't really willing to do that.
Lynn (34:50):
So better that you were living on your own.
So nobody's influencing anythingthey think you ought to be doing.
Wendy (34:56):
Right.
And when I come and go andwherever I'm going, whatever
I'm doing, I. That's on me.
There's no one that I'm negotiating with.
No spouse, no partner, no one else.
Lynn (35:09):
So that probably made the transition quicker because you weren't compromising,
you weren't any of that back and forth.
It sounds like you just set your goal.
Wendy (35:18):
Mm-hmm.
Lynn (35:19):
Took the action and then did the work that you needed to do,
Wendy (35:22):
and each time you take that step forward and you do something.
The next time you go to dosomething new, it's easier.
Lynn (35:32):
Like you were talking about going different places, dressed as a woman at
the beginning and nobody even noticed
Wendy (35:38):
it was, uh, a nice, uh, bar, restaurant that was on the way
to the town that I was living in.
New Hope, Pennsylvania.
I always wanted to go there, butmy wife didn't for some reason.
I don't know why it was.
Just a nice restaurant,but they did have two bars.
Okay.
So that's a drawback for some people.
Anyway, I decided that my second day asWendy living full-time, yeah, I wanna
(36:04):
go out and have lunch, and I decidedthat I was going to go there myself.
By myself for lunch.
Never been in a restaurant as Wendynever sat down and ordered a meal, never
did any of that brand new experience.
First time.
Loved it.
Had a blast
(36:26):
engaged with the server.
That was all perfectly fine.
Nobody acted like I wasanything different other than.
Wendy, that was all there was to it.
Yeah.
Lynn (36:39):
Wow.
This is great.
So then that just kept reinforcing it.
Wendy (36:46):
Yeah.
See it was the day before I'd goneto the supermarket for the first
time, grocery shopping as myself.
Yes,
and the first time that I signed my name was for my store discount card.
I decided, okay, I'm notgonna cop out on this.
I'm just gonna go do it.
Okay.
I got
in line with everybody else, walked up to the service desk, got my
(37:07):
card, signed my name, put my addressin there, and all that good stuff.
Off I went and going, yeah, that was easy.
Interesting.
These little tests that you gaveyourself, Uhhuh, and it's all
these little experiences thatcome up and they just continued.
Yeah.
(37:29):
Uh, so are there
Lynn (37:29):
any
Wendy (37:29):
firsts now because it's been eight years?
Um, yeah.
I'm going into my ninth year.
Yeah.
First this year I packed up,I, I packed up a house in 2023.
My ex and I finally agreed that itwas time to sell it and we sold it.
There was a lot of workinvolved in doing that,
(37:52):
and
it took me the first six months in order to make that all happen.
At the time, I had no ideareally where I was going to live.
I put that out to the universethat I would figure it out.
Lynn (38:04):
Yeah.
Wendy (38:05):
I didn't have time during the cleaning out of the house or the selling
or anything like that to really look atany length where I was going to live.
So after closing, I wentand checked into a hotel.
Okay.
I was exhausted.
I went to sleep at nine 30 thatnight and didn't wake up until two
(38:27):
o'clock the following afternoon.
I had been networking with some peoplein New England and I got interested
in moving back to New England,and that's what I wound up doing.
Lynn (38:40):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (38:41):
So, did I know anyone here?
No.
Just one.
One or two people whowere LinkedIn Connections.
Lynn (38:49):
Okay.
So nobody that you really knew.
Wendy (38:51):
Nobody.
I decided, ah, this isa growth experience.
Go there.
Find a place to live and start overin a place I've never been to as
an adult and don't know anyone.
Lynn (39:04):
That sounds like a big first to be doing what?
Whether you're all of a sudden doingthat as a woman when you used to be
doing things like that as a man, or justfor anybody, that's a big move to make
Wendy (39:16):
Uhhuh.
Lynn (39:16):
That's a big first,
Wendy (39:19):
and I do firmly believe that these are all growth experiences.
Yeah.
On top of that, I laid indoing these interviews,
Lynn (39:29):
yes.
Wendy (39:29):
Because I got sick and tired of hearing people on politicians
and religious people and all ofthat, talking about people like me.
Lynn (39:39):
Mm-hmm.
And that's, and knowingnothing about them.
Wendy (39:42):
Exactly.
Lynn (39:43):
Yes,
Wendy (39:44):
I decided, okay, enough's enough.
I'm gonna start putting myself outthere and doing this, and that way
at least I'm a counter to them,
Lynn (39:54):
thank goodness.
So we're gonna stop this interview rightnow and Wendy will be back for more as we
continue this conversation about her life.
Thank you for being here today, Wendy, andthank you to the audience for joining us.
I know that you found this fascinating,so be sure to like, subscribe, share this
out with people who would be interested.
(40:15):
We're all about educating people what it'slike to be born transgender, so help us
share that out and be sure and subscribe.
Whether you're listening on podcast orYouTube, please subscribe to our channels.
If you wanna contact Wendy, look for herwebsite, which is meet wendy cole.com.
That's meet wendy cole.com, and we'llhave that information in the show notes.
Please reach out to her.
(40:35):
She's an amazing coach and amazing mentor.
Thank you for being here today.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphy, founderof Women Who Push the Limits and
to mystifying Transgender journey.
So tune in next time for anotheramazing conversation with Wendy Cole.
We'll see you then.
Thanks next time on demystifyingthe Transgender Journey.
Wendy (40:55):
I don't think I achieved anywhere near what I could have
academically and professionally in life.
I didn't come close to my potential.
I know how I feel now and how I am now.
Had I been that way back in my late teensand early twenties and all the way through
(41:19):
things could have been very different.
Lynn (41:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wendy (41:22):
Because this affected everything.
Lynn (41:26):
Thank you for joining us today on this episode of
Demystifying the Transgender Journey.
Remember to subscribe so youdon't miss a single episode
of our fascinating interviews.
You can also find more information onour website, the transgender journey.com.
So until next time, staycurious and stay kind.
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