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March 21, 2025 49 mins

Wendy Cole's Journey at 67--Navigating Identity and Transformation

In this episode of Demystifying the Transgender Journey, host Lynn Murphy continues an intimate and enlightening conversation with Wendy, who transitioned at the age of 67. Wendy shares her experiences with imposter syndrome post-surgery, deconstructing male socialization, and the emotional and physical challenges of transitioning later in life. Wendy also discusses her shifting views on religion, dealing with her son’s struggles, and how societal acceptance has evolved. The episode delves into her first experiences of presenting and living as a woman and the nuances of dating and sexual orientation after transitioning. Wendy's story is a candid exploration of authenticity, resilience, and the pursuit of happiness. 

For more information, visit our website, www.thetransgenderjourney.com.

 

00:00 Introduction and Personal Reflections

00:24 Welcome to Demystifying the Transgender Journey

00:51 Coping Mechanisms and Personal Growth

01:52 Wendy's Transition Journey

02:22 Deconstructing Male Socialization

03:04 Religion and Family Dynamics

12:37 Challenges with Parenting

15:29 Experiences with Society and Acceptance

16:16 Navigating Legal and Social Hurdles

23:43 Surgery and Recovery

26:11 Innovative Surgical Techniques

27:08 Post-Surgery Recovery

28:40 Living with New Experiences

30:21 Dating and Relationships

36:35 Starting a New Chapter

42:40 Reflections and Future Plans

48:35 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Wendy (00:00):
One of the things I realized after surgery is I had imposter syndrome.

(00:03):
It wasn't really rampant during thedaytime, but it was at night when
I got undressed, and it was in themorning when I was getting dressed.
You weren't congruent, right?

Lynn (00:15):
What do you really know about people who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious but hesitant to ask questions.
Well, welcome to demystifying theTransgender Journey in our conversations
with people who were born transgender,their families, friends, and the
professionals who support them, weask probing questions and discover

(00:35):
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find more information onour website, the transgender journey.com.
Now, let's get right into today's episode.
Previously on demystifyingthe transgender journey,

Wendy (00:51):
distractions were what helped me get through.

Lynn (00:54):
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (00:54):
That and psychiatrists who would prescribe lots of meds.
I was living in a fog fourand a half decades repressing
this, holding everything back.
Hiding living with shame, fear, guilt.
But what has shifted in me is how do wechange our thoughts so that we can be

(01:15):
open to new beliefs and new possibilities.
That began doing a lot of work onbehaviors, mannerisms, language,
how you walk, how you talk.
Basically, opening up mymind, yes, I can do this.
That's the way I startedjust looking at things.
I'm gonna try.
We all make excuses not to try something.
Whenever I start to feel that way,that's when I'm too lace up the

(01:36):
sneakers and go out and do it.
Whatever it is.
For the first two years, there was somany experiences every day that were new.
The first time you're standing outthere pumping gas into your car on a
windy day, shirts, the hair, the wholebit, ah, this is a growth experience.

Lynn (01:52):
Welcome to another episode of Demystifying the Transgender Journey.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphy, founderof Women Who Push the Limits and
demystifying the Transgender journey.
If you've listened to our previousepisodes, you know that we've had such
an amazing conversation with Wendy abouther life transitioning at the age of
67 when she knew from the time she wasa child that she was born transgender.
If you've missed any of those previousones, be sure and find those because

(02:15):
there's chock full of very, veryinteresting and educational information.
Today we're continuing the conversation.
Wendy's gonna be talkingabout deconstructing that male
socialization that was forced uponher when she knew she wasn't a boy.
She knew she was a woman, and she'sgonna be talking about some of
the firsts that she experienced.
First time being a womanoutwardly at the age of 67.

(02:37):
Wendy, thank you for being here, andlet's get right into today's episode.
We're gonna pick up wherewe left off last time.

Wendy (02:43):
I, I got sick and tired of hearing people on, you know, politicians
and religious people, and, uh, talkingabout people like me and knowing

Lynn (02:51):
nothing about

Wendy (02:52):
them.
Exactly,

Lynn (02:54):
yes.

Wendy (02:54):
I decided, okay, enough's enough.
I'm gonna see myself out therein doing this, and that way at
least I'm a counter to them.

Lynn (03:02):
Thank goodness.
Now, did religion play apart in your life at all?

Wendy (03:07):
Uh, I was raised in the Methodist church.
Um, my parents were veryactive in the church.
My father for years was a treasurerand we did the Sunday collection
plate and all of that fun stuff.
I went to, uh, Methodist YouthFellowship every Sunday night.
It.
It was kind of interesting.

(03:29):
I don't know.
I was friends with the minister's sonand another eye, and I'll never forget
the Sunday morning with Friend Bill.
Open this up.
Playboy to the.
It opens it like that and we're notsitting in the back of the congregation.

(03:50):
We're open the floor.
This in church?
This is in church.
So anyway, there was some, uh,interesting times for sure.
I went to college in myfreshman year of college.
I came home Christmas andmade the announcement that I
was all done with the church.
I'm not going to Christmas services.

(04:12):
I've discovered that I'minterested in Asian beliefs, Zen.
I'm interested in meditation,opening up to new experiences.
And part of that was also too, becauseI was trying to find other answers for
this, this is always lurking underneathanything my male facsimile ever did.

(04:34):
So my parents were very upsetwith that, with that announcement.
And I got sent to the minister.
So I start explaining to him how I feeland what I believe in and all of that.
He starts asking me questions.
We keep talking and he told me,well, my son goes to Harvard.
He's pretty much announced the same thing.

(04:56):
Oh no.
Then he looked at me and he goes, uh, inone sense you're probably more religious
than the people that come every Sunday.
I think a lot of that going on still.
So I, I went with it.
My parents were not happy, ofcourse, but that was the last
religious activity in my life.
There was the occasional Christmasservices, which I was obligated to

(05:20):
attend by one reason or another, and, uh,occasional wedding and things like that.

Lynn (05:26):
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (05:27):
Other than being active in any organized religion, I basically decided I
didn't need an organized religion or an.
Or a totally structured belief systemlike that requires me going to a building.
I don't need that in my life.

Lynn (05:44):
Well, you seem like you're more spiritual and into, you
know, more self-awareness andthe meditation, when you said the

Wendy (05:53):
last nine years of really, really increased that considerably.
I've gotten so much moreaware, self-aware, and do a
lot of the, uh, spiritual work.
To, you know, stay connected.
I really, in my previous years oflife as a male with technology and

(06:16):
all of that, I wasn't involved withpeople to the degree than I am now.
And I really enjoy those connectionsare much more than I ever did before.
Before I couldn't.

Lynn (06:32):
Yes, and you were hiding things.
You were things.
I had this huge,

Wendy (06:38):
huge secret that I was struggling to repress.
Now there are people who transitionedin the seventies, the eighties, the
nineties, and even the early twothousands before the medical community
accepted this as a treatable condition.

(06:58):
Especially the ones in the seventies,eighties, and even the nineties,
they were largely faced withthe proposition of not remaining
part of society after doing this.

Lynn (07:11):
So tell me more about that.
When you say not part ofsociety, they were ostracized.

Wendy (07:16):
Well, in 1970, I was told I should move to New York City.

Lynn (07:22):
Oh.
'Wendy: cause I was a freak and that's where I should live underground
and

Wendy (07:26):
turn tricks.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Uh, didn't change in the restof the seventies or the eighties
and, uh, even until the nineties.
The best place you could.
Could possibly do this and livewithout much in the way of fear as,

(07:47):
uh, San Francisco and New York City.

Lynn (07:50):
What about the famous people, you know, before about Christine
Jorgensen and Kaitlyn Jenner?
You know, we won't even remember when,when that she made her transition.
But what, you know, with celebrities,with Chaz Bono, you know, the
celebrities that we think of did that.
Change anything.

Wendy (08:08):
The celebrities, first of all with, when you have that kind of status
and that kind of position in societyand you do this, you're immune from
the blow back of on it and all ofthat, but um, you do have the means

(08:29):
and the wherewithal to keep living.

Lynn (08:32):
Mm-hmm.
That's the difference.
Yeah.

Wendy (08:34):
There's a big difference in there in terms of the um, uh, MUEs.

Lynn (08:40):
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (08:41):
It means for the medical right.
Whatever they needed.
The news commentaries that Iwatched, uh, when they're discussing
Kaitlyn Jenner, they said she hadspent $70,000 on facial surgery.
I dunno if that's true or not,but I know from one of my clients
you can spend a lot of money.

Lynn (09:03):
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (09:03):
Um, numbers I've heard are upwards of 20, $25,000.
Wow.
For facial feminization.
They changed the jaw line, theychanged the brow bone structure.
They do a lot of things.

Lynn (09:19):
Hmm, but that's not available

Wendy (09:20):
to everybody.

Lynn (09:21):
Mm-hmm.
It's,

Wendy (09:23):
that is one of the things that's not covered by, uh, health insurance
under transgender medical care.
It should be, but it's not.

Lynn (09:32):
Well, you think of women who've had mastectomies.
The reconstructive surgery,I think is covered.
I don't know.

Wendy (09:39):
Probably.
I believe it is.
Yes.
I wait and see what happens and whatgrew the, what developed naturally.
Hmm.
And perfectly happy with what I have.

Lynn (09:50):
Well, you look fabulous.

Wendy (09:52):
Thank you.
So many things

Lynn (09:54):
you had to learn.
It's just so interesting to thinkabout that kind of a transition,
not just the surgery or not just.
Change, that type of thing.
But that transition of learning allthose different things about how, how
women move and act and speak and, right.
Yeah.
I call

Wendy (10:10):
it deconstructing your socialization.

Lynn (10:16):
Well, you had a lot of years to deconstruct, didn't you?

Wendy (10:19):
Absolutely.

Lynn (10:20):
And

Wendy (10:21):
they don't go away easily.

Lynn (10:23):
Yeah.

Wendy (10:24):
You've gotta work at it.
Yeah, just to know you move how you carryyour body and tend to just spread out

Lynn (10:32):
here.
I'm,

Wendy (10:33):
yeah.
I'm taking up space.

Lynn (10:35):
Yes.
Yes.
So as a man, did you take up space orwere you still feeling more feminine
and not taking up as much space?

Wendy (10:46):
That's a very delicate balance because what I had to do
was any of those inclinations todo what would've felt more natural.
Mm-hmm.
I had to repress those as well.
Got it.
That would give me away.
And when I was younger and livingat home with my parents, what that

(11:09):
would mean is, oh my God, we gotta gocommit him back to the psych center.

Lynn (11:15):
Let's do that.
Lobotomy.
Huh?

Wendy (11:17):
There you go.
Those probes out.

Lynn (11:19):
Oh,

Wendy (11:20):
what a frightening thing to think.
Oh, yeah.
Oh.
Said, I've forgiven them for basicallythey did what they thought was right.
Yeah, based on their life experiences.
My father was born in 1918.
My mother was born in 1925.
Perfect.
Fifties housewife.

Lynn (11:39):
Oh, leave it to Beaver.

Wendy (11:40):
Oh yeah.

Lynn (11:41):
Father knows best.
Ozzie and Harriet.

Wendy (11:44):
Yes.

Lynn (11:44):
Grew up with all those.
Yep.

Wendy (11:47):
Oh God.
My mother didn't have a checkbook.
My mother didn't have a credit card.
My father wrote the check for thegrocery, uh, for the grocery shop and
all of that good stuff, and I had dreamedof my mother helping me with this.
Only to realize nowmuch later in life that

Lynn (12:07):
was not, to be not capable of Uhuh doing that.
Especially going against your father.

Wendy (12:14):
Right.

Lynn (12:14):
She would have to have,

Wendy (12:16):
and my father's attitude toward women were, they were property

Lynn (12:21):
and the expectations and mm-hmm.
Women doing the kind of thing.
Well, some were, but.
A lot of 'em just not the strength or notwanna rock the boat landing in as a woman.
Right.
That's what your mother wasdoing in her version of a woman.
Right, exactly.
So what of your family, um,you talked about your children,

(12:42):
are they both still alive?
No.
Yeah.
You talk about that or not?

Wendy (12:46):
We only learn about as we go through life.
A DHD, he was born in 1976, inthe 1970s, and in the eighties
this was not understood.
Mm-hmm.
No, I was not meant to be a parent.
I had too many of my own issues andtrying to figure out what to do with a

(13:12):
child who is basically outta control ata moment's notice, no clue what to do.

Lynn (13:18):
Yeah.

Wendy (13:20):
And we had 'em going into, uh, a local school for, uh, some
sort of analysis, training, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, they didn't really know what was wrong with.
So as progressed in all they did, I'dsay by late, uh, middle school, he had

(13:40):
managed to get into alcohol and somedrugs, and high school was horrible.
And a number of times my wife andI got called into the school for
meetings with the district people.
Mm-hmm.
Basically, they're lookingat us like it's our fault.

(14:01):
Yeah.
They want to go into a voc techprogram, and I totally supported that.
But he refused.
Hmm.
At the sophomore year of high school, he threatened to drop
out and wanted to join the army.
Uh, I don't know if it was sophomoreyear or junior year or something, but
it was one of those years I called therecruiter and had 'em come to the house.

(14:23):
Uh, I thought it would be great.
Uh, there was no warsgoing on at the time.
And at least they were saying theywould, uh, actually see that he got a
GED and that he would learn something.
Mm-hmm.
And he wasn't learning in school.
I knew that I. So, um, my wife at the timebasically was not in favor of doing that.

(14:46):
Made him do that.
Who knows how it would've worked out.
I don't know either.
I think it was the summer ofeven 2018, my, uh, ex called
and said he killed himself.
Um,
according to the Philadelphia police, he had
injected 12 packets of heroin.

Lynn (15:05):
Oh, sad.

Wendy (15:07):
I wished I'd done differently and I had more knowledge.

Lynn (15:11):
Yeah.

Wendy (15:11):
But there very limited resources and every time we'd take
him to therapy or anything like that,

Lynn (15:19):
well, you know, you best you can with what you've got at the time and Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
Well, I'm sorry.
That's, that's a sad, sad ending.

Wendy (15:27):
Talk about a new experience.
I went to the funeral as Wendy, of course.
I'd already been living.
This way, and I'd already had surgery.
Mm-hmm.
So there was no way in hellI was going to put on a suit
and tie to go to the funeral.

Lynn (15:42):
Yeah,

Wendy (15:43):
and uh, part of the discussion was, uh, around, well, the neighbors
and a lot of the relatives haven'tseen you and don't know of you
this way and blah, blah blah, and

Lynn (15:55):
no compromise.

Wendy (15:57):
So I did go to the funeral and, uh, I did back to the house.
So, uh, there was the usual daysafter and all of that stuff.
Mm-hmm.
So I went back to the house as well.
At the funeral home.
I basically sat alone.
This is a trip.
Um, I learned in December of2015 when I went to court to

(16:23):
change my name in Pennsylvania,where I was living at the time.
You had to go to court andstand before the judge.
At a podium in the courtroom andannounce, and my lawyer gave me the
script that I was supposed to sayabout being transgender, living as a
woman and want to change my name fromand to, well, that was the first.

(16:47):
So here I am standing on my lawyer.
A really nice girl told me, Wendy,don't say a word after you say that.
He's gonna look forevery way to refuse you.

Lynn (17:03):
Oh, really?
Yeah.

Wendy (17:04):
Um.
Most of Pennsylvania.
The, uh, a lot of Pennsylvania,the Republican, the, the
judges are Republican.
Oh, and they will look for anyway to refuse a transgender
person this name change.
So I kept my mouth shut.
Every time he'd ask a question,I'd kind of glanced and she told

(17:25):
me that she would, uh, nudge me orwhatever, if I was supposed to answer.
Otherwise, be quiet.
It was a packed courtroom that day.
I look at the courtroom, the, the menare sitting there like, not, not joking,
jaws hanging open, just staring at me.

Lynn (17:43):
But they were there for other cases, right?

Wendy (17:46):
Yeah.

Lynn (17:46):
Yours, genevan

Wendy (17:48):
just one of the many that day.
And they,

Lynn (17:49):
they

Wendy (17:49):
were in shock.
And then what really surprised meeven more so, was about, uh, two
thirds of the women in the audiencewere sitting there with big smiles.
How interesting.
I go up and sit down, my lawyerand I sit down on the bench we were
sitting on, and the two guys thatwere beside me couldn't slide far and

(18:12):
away from me, like contact with me.
They would wanna become women.
Oh.
Oh, it must rub off, huh?
Well, it was no differentthan in 2018 at the funeral.
Same thing.
A few people, guys who knew mebefore would say something, just a
few of them, and then kind of walk.

(18:35):
When I got back to the house, ifI entered a room, most of the guys
would leave and go to another room.
It was, it was the way has been all along.
If I'm out in public, um, I can goa bar, sit at a bar and strike up a
conversation with the people aroundme, male or female, and no one knows.

(18:58):
Yeah.
And no one cares.

Lynn (19:00):
No, but it's those people who knew you as a man.
Yeah.
They get wound.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Wendy (19:07):
And the other thing is, is that guys who.
Don't know about me.
Mm-hmm.
When they find out they're still likely to get
really weirded out and move off.

Lynn (19:21):
Interesting.

Wendy (19:22):
It's, it's very typical, especially of heterosexual males.
During my five years of living in NewHope, new Hope, Pennsylvania, with the
San Francisco of the East during theeighties, I think large gay community.
So I figured living there,they're gonna know all about me.

(19:42):
Not even close.
They knew I was the T ofLGBT, but that's about it.

Lynn (19:49):
Well, so let's talk of sexuality of this.

Wendy (19:52):
It's different for, for a lot of people going through this.
Mine is just one snapshot of thatexperience, but I'm also not that unusual.
I was, I knew from childhoodand especially in like school
years, my male facsimile wassupposed to be attracted to girls.

(20:15):
Mm-hmm.
Well, I didn't like, because that involved hiding my secret and
that involved making connections withpeople and all of, and that's all
high risk and I just didn't wanna.
In terms of whether or not I was,uh, sexually attracted to girls,

(20:36):
it's because I was supposed to be.

Lynn (20:38):
Yeah.

Wendy (20:39):
Was I at the boys?
Oh, hell no.
I knew one thing for sure.
I wasn't gay.

Lynn (20:47):
Yeah.

Wendy (20:48):
In my fantasies, I would lie there and think to myself about what
it would be like to really be Wendy.
There were ki, there were timesold fantasies and my, you know,
stories that I told myself.
Yeah.
I had a boyfriend, wasWendy and I had a boyfriend.

Lynn (21:08):
Yeah,

Wendy (21:09):
but did I want a boyfriend?
As my male facsimile.
Oh hell no.
Didn't even know what thatwould look like or feel like or
like, and no attraction to it.
Whereas my friend, whopeople like me, skid him out.
He knew he was attractedto boys at a young age.

(21:29):
He knew what he was, thathe was one of the Gs.

Lynn (21:34):
Yeah.

Wendy (21:35):
And he repressed it.
Did all the same stuff I did.
He had a career, he had a wife,he had a family, he had the house,
he had the whole bit, and thenfinally came out after all of that.
Hmm.
And that was one of those things Ipointed out in our first conversation.

(21:57):
We did all the same stuff.
You just became a GI became a T.So, um, fast forward to July, July,
August of 2017, August 31st of.
Uh, basically what I told the gay guyswas I was getting my birth defect fixed.

(22:22):
Which talk about freakout the gay guys, right?
Oh yeah.
Invariably there would be someonethe happy hour grabbing their crotch
going, Wendy, how can you do that?
Because they were pretty proud ofthat piece of their body, right?
There you go.
It

Lynn (22:36):
never fit for you?

Wendy (22:38):
No.
It wasn't.
Didn't belong, huh Uh, I wasfalling asleep as a little kid.
It's going.
I wish it would fall off in the morningand my closet would be full of dresses

Lynn (22:50):
as a young child, huh?

Wendy (22:51):
You?
Oh yeah.
There was no doubt in mind.
Yeah.
I saw Stephanie for five years and I thinkduring our last, uh, few years together,
it was gonna be once a month that I didcheck-ins, check with my guru, you know?
Yeah.
So, uh, um, I asked her.
What my sexual orientation is goingto be like once I have the surgery.

(23:15):
I definitely am not anymore attractedto women because I am living as one,
but no, I, that's not me, so, mm-hmm.
I don't know how this is gonna workafter, and her words to me were
pretty much the same as they hadbeen in their other circumstances.

(23:36):
You'll figure it out when you get there.

Lynn (23:39):
Hmm.
Okay.

Wendy (23:40):
And she was right.
Um, I, um, had my surgery, I hadmy, holy shit, you finally did it.
Moment on 30th Street, going back forone of my post-op follow up Blue Bond.
And I was looking at myself in the,uh, black glass of the storefront
windows with the reflection.

(24:02):
And that was like.
A huge moment for me.
Wow.
You finally did this.
Finally complete, uh, no longeran imposter because that, one
of the things I realized aftersurgery is I had imposter syndrome.
It wasn't really rampant during thedaytime, but it was at night when
I got undressed, and it was in themorning when I was getting dressed.

(24:24):
You weren't congruent, right?
I still had wrong anatomy.
But you've been

Lynn (24:30):
taking hormones, right?

Wendy (24:31):
Oh, yeah.

Lynn (24:33):
So there were some body changes,

Wendy (24:36):
distribution changes, and breast development by that point was pretty
much into the, uh, bup area, the process.
Mm-hmm.
It was quite satisfied.
Um, then, uh, after surgery, uh,recovery period, that generally takes
about six to usually no more thannine months, sometimes as much as 12.

(25:02):
It depends on the surgery and if therewas complications or anything like that,
but, uh, generally it's about six months.
I ran into the hospital on thatmorning at a quarter of six.
Couldn't wait to get there.
Um, didn't sleep the night before.
No sense in doing that.
I'm too excited and I've gotta leaveby, leave my place by 4:00 AM so.

(25:28):
Just stay

Lynn (25:29):
up, be happy, do your thing.
And you're gonna sleep aftersurgery anyway, so what difference.
That's right.
Gonna

Wendy (25:33):
sleep the whole day away.

Lynn (25:36):
Yeah.

Wendy (25:37):
I go in the anesthesiologist day was great.
Explained everything he was going to do.
My only concern was nausea.
After he said, Nope, I put stuff in there.
So that won't happen to you.
Iba poked her head inand go, you ready, Wendy?
Oh yeah.
Born ready.

(25:57):
She goes, that's why you see you inside.
The nurse came in and walked me inside.
I laid down on this table.
It's uh, uh.
Kind of y shape.
Of course, there's allthese machines around.
Uh, I actually had twosurgeons run me, Dr.
Rachel Bbo and Dr. Lee Zal, and he's alsoNYU's resident expert on robotic surgery.

Lynn (26:22):
Oh.

Wendy (26:23):
So one of the things that they described that they would do to me
is there's work that has to be doneon the outside to make everything
look real, and there's work thatneeds to be done on the inside.
And rather than go and kind of do thingsblindly from the outside, they cut a

(26:45):
little, uh, sliver above, lights above mynavel inserted lights, inflated me lights,
action camera, and then go to tools.
And they do their thing onthe inside too, with robotics.
Amazing.
What they can do.
Yeah.
And I'm convinced that's why I had.
So little pain from the entire process.

(27:08):
The discharge nurse, I was inthe hospital for five days.
They had the new vagina.
They had a, uh, what they call a woundvac in there, which, uh, drew out any, uh,
blood or any, anything that was happeningthe usual to of that other stuff.
I was wired up Sure.
And um, I think it was mysecond day they had me doing

(27:32):
laps around the hospital floor.
Okay.
The move, um, they, they justwanted me to walk around once I
said, no, I'm gonna do it again.

Lynn (27:41):
Yeah.

Wendy (27:42):
And I sped up the pace that I'm laughing people.

Lynn (27:45):
Oh, wonderful.
So, um, but you feel pretty good then.

Wendy (27:50):
I was feeling fine.
The most they ever gave me a, thedischarge nurse was, um, you know, the
industrial strength Tylenol and it.
No, no narcotics, nonarcotic pain killers.
Good for you.
That's terrific.
And a lot of, uh, herpatients are the same.
And I, I know it's gotta bedue to the surgery techniques.

(28:13):
Mm-hmm.
That's just my feeling.
But, um, it was so worthwhile going toNYU and having that experience and then
the follow-up visits and all of that.
And of course there's, uh, a scar tissuethat forms with almost every plastic
surgery, and she takes care of that duringthat process, during the healing process.

(28:36):
And I had major problems.
That's
wonderful.
Um, I became intimatelyfamiliar with Pats.

Lynn (28:45):
Okay.

Wendy (28:46):
I, I will never have a period, but, uh, the surgery leaves you with, you
know, drainages and all of that stuff.
Yeah.
Um, I became very familiar with alwaysUltras, especially for the first year.

Lynn (29:04):
So you had the experience that we all had, that women were
grew up as women, that we had for.
Decades,

Wendy (29:12):
right?

Lynn (29:13):
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad you gotto so you could, well, I

Wendy (29:17):
mean, it

Lynn (29:17):
was different reason for it, but you get,

Wendy (29:20):
I, I'd leave New York City with and to train back to, uh, Hamilton, New Jersey
and drive back to New Hope, usually with,uh, the equivalent of a pillow down there.
Pillow.
It was an interesting experience, but

Lynn (29:34):
yeah,

Wendy (29:35):
it was one of those new experiences, definitely a first.
Definitely a first, and Ihave a further usefulness.
And

Lynn (29:44):
when I was growing up, we didn't have the stu pads.
We had to wear those, those belts.
Oh yeah.
I saw those from my mother saw those.
Yeah.
And that was a real joy.
Oh, I

Wendy (29:56):
bet.
Just imagine what that would be like.

Lynn (29:58):
The pads were about this thick.
They didn't have the plasticliners and all that kind of stuff.
Uhhuh, uhhuh.
So

Wendy (30:04):
we got to experience the joke.
Things.
That's something that I going to go.
Get familiar.
Yeah.
And it's just gonna be per life.
Oh yeah.
And that's what it is.
You wanted this.
Yeah.
So, um, yeah.
Um, six months in or so, shegoes, well, well, Wendy, you're

(30:29):
all healed, ready for sex.
I did have a conversation with her that.
Not only, no one's ever going toknow that what I have was surgically
created, but she said, even yourfirst visit to a gynecologist,
you're not gonna have a clue.

Lynn (30:48):
Really?

Wendy (30:49):
Yeah,

Lynn (30:50):
it's that surgery's that good, huh?
It's amazing.

Wendy (30:53):
And I went to Women's Princeton Health.
The girl took me into the waitingroom to wait for gynecologist to
come in, and she starts asking meall this laundry list of questions.
Not at all applicable.

Lynn (31:10):
Your first period, your last period, have you ever been pregnant?
Yeah.

Wendy (31:14):
And I. Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna abbreviate this.
This was surgically created, soalmost none of those questions apply.
She goes, oh, really?
Oh, okay.
And, uh, okay.
So I figured, well, she'sgonna tell the doctor.
Then, uh, exchanges, pleasantries,uh, picks up the chart, looks at

(31:36):
me, grabs the speculum, and said,okay, what we got going on here
That affect in, goes to speculum.
Oh.
Oh, okay.
I said, what?
She goes, when did you have hysterectomy?
That's what it looked like to her.

Lynn (31:52):
No kidding?
Yep.
Wow.
So she couldn't even tell.

Wendy (31:56):
So when I started talk, I said, I thought you would be told, but no.
Um, when, um, uh, I explained it toher, she goes, I've known this before.

Lynn (32:09):
Wow.
No kidding.
Huh?
Right.

Wendy (32:13):
So.
Within the medical field.
I have had my share of few experienceswith this and uh, she gave me the
exam and everything looked fine.
She had some things I needed todo and I did, and that's fine.
And, but we had a whole conversationabout the whole, everything I

(32:33):
went through and all of that.
It was really interesting andshe was a very nice person,
but that confirmed for me.
Everything looks fine.
And, uh, in terms of sexualorientation, well, I had to find out.
Well, of course you did.
You're never too old, right?
Right, exactly.

(32:53):
I think I was 70 at the time.
Okay.
Yeah, at least 70.
Maybe heading for 71.
I don't know.
Anyway, I decided, okay,I'm gonna go and try.
I tried one of the updating sites andI started meeting people and finally
I met someone that seemed interestingand uh, went out on three dates.

(33:20):
I think it was either the thirdor the fourth that I decided.
Okay.
Let's see where this goes if things work.
Huh?
And see how I would feel about it.
'cause at this point I still have no idea.
Yeah.

Lynn (33:34):
Yeah.

Wendy (33:35):
Um, I did enjoy being out on dates.
I with them.
What I have since discoveredis that a lot of, definitely
not good at sharing feelings,

Lynn (33:46):
no surprise to most of us,

Wendy (33:48):
right?
And don't even wanna even discuss it.
So when I ask how do youfeel about something that's,
that's an irrelevant question,

Lynn (33:57):
does not compute.

Wendy (34:01):
What I decided it was going to be an a potentially unnerving experience, I'm
sure first time to have sex with a man.
I grew up watching New York City tv,those movies from the forties and fifties
where the woman comes out and says, letme go get into something more comfortable.

(34:25):
I decided, what the hell?
I'm gonna try that.
Yeah.
So in my purse, I had myVictoria Secret panties.
Top and a matching robe.

Lynn (34:40):
Ooh, nice.
See that first handy, didn't it?

Wendy (34:43):
Yeah, very much so.
And I was still wearing my black heels.

Lynn (34:50):
Ah, okay.

Wendy (34:51):
So I, I said, I'm gonna get into something more.
Went in the bathroom, changed, came out.
I thought he was mind blown.
Took me in his arms, kissedme, and off we went to.

Lynn (35:06):
So he didn't have any problem?
No.
Who he knew you were?

Wendy (35:10):
Nope.

Lynn (35:11):
Who you were then.

Wendy (35:13):
He But he didn't know you had he He had no clue.
Yeah.
At this point I was, I waspretty stealth most of the time.
Stealth meaning to anyone?
The gay community knew all about me anda lot of people in town that knew me
from hanging out around town and beingsocial and all of that other good stuff.

(35:36):
They knew about me, but there wasalso a lot of people who had no idea.
Mm-hmm.
And at the time, I was working as a cashier in a supermarket and most of the
people I worked with there had no idea.
Yeah.
And um.
Anyway, so whole sexual experiencewas to say more than mind blowing.

Lynn (35:58):
Amazing then.

Wendy (35:59):
Yeah, far better than anything I had ever experienced as a guy.
It is awesome.
Uh, full body involvement.
Yeah, very emotional involvement.

Lynn (36:12):
Oh,

Wendy (36:13):
just felt really, really good.

Lynn (36:15):
Sounds fantastic.
It, it was a great first.

Wendy (36:20):
Great first.
Yeah.
Uh, over the course of 2018 and2019, never revealing to any of them.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Uh, 20.
2020 comes.
So, um, 2020, the year thatI decided I was going my
coaching work and put it online.

(36:44):
And I hired a business coach andI started working on that and
that's how I spent the pandemic.
Mm-hmm.
Was
setting everything up for that.
Mm-hmm.
And December of, uh, 2020, I put my myself on Instagram,
uh, and my, on Facebook with mybusiness, Facebook and Instagram,

(37:08):
and I put up my website that year.
Mm-hmm.
December.
And I think it was maybe about fouror five days passed by and I get
this, uh, uh, message on, on, onInstagram, Wendy, I had no idea.
Okay.

(37:29):
That was last guy I dated.
So we went and forth with the, he hadno idea, and I said, oh, about what?
I wanted to tell you the words.
Yeah.
Be direct.
Yes.
Have a conversation with me about it.
Yes.
He didn't do that.
He didn't?
Yeah, no.
He just said, I have no idea.

(37:51):
I said, well, are you angry?
Are you upset?
Uh, how do you feel?
Again?
There's that feeling.
Oh, those

Lynn (37:57):
feelings.
What he thinks maybe.
Yeah.
Feelings not so much.

Wendy (38:03):
Not so much.
So, um, he said, allbeautiful, sexy woman.
And I said, well, yeah,
that's what you are.
That's what, that's what Iwould hope you would've seen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He said, okay.
W what do you, what's going on?

(38:25):
Forget the exact word heused just this moment.
He was basically just pondering thewhole situation and I said, well,
let me know, and left it at that.
Have you heard from him?
No.
Still follows me on Instagram though.
But he

Lynn (38:41):
had a lot of pondering to do.

Wendy (38:43):
Yeah.
But that wasn't the right word, butI forget the exact word he used.
But, um, once I got online and onceI started my coaching work and all
of that, I had to put something,if I 2021, I started dating again.
Mm-hmm.
And this time I put in my, um, profile.

(39:06):
It was kind of like the thirdparagraph of my profile, right?
When I transitioned, etcetera, et cetera, et cetera.
I put it very nicely andleave it to conversation.
Got me the wrong kind of attention.

Lynn (39:19):
Oh yeah.
What we were we talkingabout those tranny chasers?
Is that the Exactly.

Wendy (39:25):
We're looking at this as a fetish.
There is a lot of that as well.
Is there.
So I, um, I basically stopped, uh,dating and in 2022, I just didn't have
the time or the bandwidth for mm-hmm.
Uh, with it.
And I was basically hoping that atpoint I would just meet somebody.

Lynn (39:47):
Mm-hmm.

Wendy (39:48):
The organic old fashioned way.

Lynn (39:51):
But that hasn't happened yet.
Nope.
Yeah, it may.
It may.
Yeah.
Well,

Wendy (39:57):
yeah, when it, when it, when it's ready.

Lynn (39:59):
Because you deserve somebody who's gonna honor you for who?
Exactly.
And you know that I tried,

Wendy (40:04):
I did try changing and changing my dating Manhattan, Manhattan zip code.

Lynn (40:10):
Okay.

Wendy (40:11):
Figuring in an urban environment like that, I'm more likely to meet who
are open, the possibility, and uh, Icould be a really great girlfriend.
Did that make a difference?
Actually it did kind of, I had twoguys at various times I was messaging
forth with and phone conversations.

(40:33):
Um, I knew of a particular Italianrestaurant that was, um, really
nice, mid price range, wouldn'tbreak the bank or anything that,
and it was near, uh, Penn Station.

Lynn (40:48):
Okay.

Wendy (40:49):
On eighth Avenue.
I proposed that we meet there eitherfor drinks at the bar or, you know, um,
a lunch or a white dinner or whatever.
And, uh, everything with both of themat different times were all set to go
and then they suddenly disappeared.

(41:09):
This is after like a month of messagingand conversation and stuff like that.
Hmm.
Still wasn't seeing Stephanie atthe time, but I did look to her
and I said, here's what's going on.
This happened to me twice now.
Everything seemed like itwas just going so well.
Uh, we had a connection,we had common interests.

(41:31):
We had stuff that we could talkabout, and then it got, comes
closer to meeting and they vanish.
One of the, uh, things, things that sheoffered me was, well, you not only have
to find a guy who, if he knows aboutyour past, he's gonna be okay with that.

(41:51):
But he also has to be okay withhis friends, his relatives.
He has to be okay with themfinding out about you too.
It's not something that you wouldever want to go and announce.
I wouldn't necessarily do that.

Lynn (42:12):
Yeah.

Wendy (42:13):
But, uh, they can Google me.

Lynn (42:17):
Yeah, yeah.
And

Wendy (42:18):
find out whatever they wind out.

Lynn (42:20):
So even if he's open to that, if he's getting pressure from friends and
family, then he doesn't wanna do that.

Wendy (42:28):
Or if it winds up them questioning him.

Lynn (42:32):
Questioning his manhood.
Exactly.
Because goodness sakes,

Wendy (42:37):
oh, that was a man.
Well see.

Lynn (42:40):
And that's why we need to be having these conversations
so people understand this.

Wendy (42:45):
It was never a man.

Lynn (42:47):
Yeah, yeah.
You had that facsimile.

Wendy (42:52):
Yeah, I was forced to live that way.

Lynn (42:54):
Yeah, like a costume or something.
You couldn't take them, but.

Wendy (42:58):
That was never you.
One of my friends asked me, uh, fromhigh school days, if your parents
had said you could go to schoolas a girl, would you have gone?
Oh, happily.

Lynn (43:09):
Yeah.

Wendy (43:10):
I wouldn't have thought twice about it.
Yeah.
I'm gonna get teased andall that other stuff.
But no, I would've thought twice about it.

Lynn (43:19):
Yeah.

Wendy (43:20):
That's how strong that feeling was inside me.

Lynn (43:23):
Mm-hmm.
And that would've been preferable tostuffing all the stuff that you had to?

Wendy (43:29):
I don't think I achieved anywhere near what I could have
academically and professionally in life.
I didn't come close to my potential.
I know how I feel now and how I am now.
Had I been that way back in my late teensand early twenties and all the way through

(43:53):
things could have been very different.

Lynn (43:55):
Yeah, yeah.

Wendy (43:57):
Because this affected everything from my academic work
and aspect of my professional life.
No way in hell could be a manager.
'cause that was, that would beputting me out in front of people.
Mm-hmm.
Like that
professionally in corporate America.
I got up to like a very seniorlevel project manager type.

(44:22):
That was a different role.
It was one that I was okay withor relatively comfortable with.
Mm-hmm.
Had I've been able to actually be me, what my intellect and my
personality change and everythingelse, what could I have done then?

Lynn (44:42):
Yeah, if you'd done that earlier, you know, and you, you talk
about the philosophies, religions.
Spirituality, that type of thing.
Mm-hmm.
And I always look at things andwonder what's, you know, if there's
a reason why things happen the waythey do and at the time that they do.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm wondering if you've done some self-reflection on that.

(45:05):
You seem like the kind of personthat does a lot of self-reflection.

Wendy (45:09):
A lot.

Lynn (45:10):
Has there been anything that you, I can say.
Even after what you just said, which is,you know, you could have done so much
more if you'd been allowed to, had theopportunity to, you know, in hindsight,
some sort of reason why maybe youdidn't until this point or until 2015.

Wendy (45:31):
I've thought about that and I, I just because of the social situations.
Within our society and howthis was always viewed.
People like me were made to feel weird.
Yeah.
The freak like they called you.
Right, exactly.

(45:52):
Could I have done it anddone it in a different way?
I've been happy.
I don't know.
Can't go back and relive that.
That's one of the other thingsthat I've had to do is let
go of any of those regrets.

Lynn (46:07):
Wow.

Wendy (46:08):
No regrets.

Lynn (46:10):
Yeah,

Wendy (46:11):
in my first few therapy sessions, I got rid of regrets and I, I knew that
I had to start really working on that.

Lynn (46:20):
Well, you had so much to hang on to, you know, and it's almost
like the universe, I'm hearing this.
Okay, Wendy, just on a few more years, or,you know, and then you got to the point
where you're such a happy experience.

Wendy (46:32):
Oh God, yes.

Lynn (46:33):
You know that, I mean, I hear you running to go get your surgery
and easily your wife about, okay, youknow, fine, we're gonna have a divorce.

Wendy (46:42):
Mm-hmm.

Lynn (46:42):
Which might have been, you'd had it years earlier.

Wendy (46:46):
It could have been, yes.
Very much so.

Lynn (46:48):
So then you're having this amazing experience and, and you're so happy.
Mm-hmm.
You told me that story last timeabout you, the doctor said, you
know, you weren't diabetic anymore.
You didn't have cholesterol,you'd lost 70 pounds.
Right.
And your comment was,

Wendy (47:03):
because I'm happy.

Lynn (47:05):
Yeah.

Wendy (47:06):
It all starts with that.

Lynn (47:08):
It starts with that, and you get to explaining it and you know,
you're, you're not pushing anythingon anybody, but you're open and you
know, you're saying, I'm an open book.
Ask me any questionsjust for people to know.

Wendy (47:20):
You're the first person to actually talk with me about my sexual orientation.

Lynn (47:26):
Well see now my motto is Women who Push the Limits.
So, you know, I'm demonstrating that.
Perfect.
And I'm, I'm pushing you topush your limits too, and I'm,

Wendy (47:35):
I, I, I am grateful for you doing

Lynn (47:38):
that.
Well, thank you.
Thank you for being open tothat and encouraging that.

Wendy (47:43):
I'm a heterosexual woman.

Lynn (47:45):
Yeah.
Well, you know, and when you're talkingabout when we were younger, you said
sex was when you were in, your malepem wasn't all that great and that
you kind of forced yourself to, it

Wendy (47:55):
felt, it felt wrong because I was in the body.

Lynn (47:57):
Yeah.
The wrong body.
And you, you know, you kindof forced yourself things.

Wendy (48:03):
Right.

Lynn (48:04):
Kind of date.

Wendy (48:05):
Very, you got a checklist.
It's the normal Got a checklist boxes.
Yeah, but what, what a hard thing to do.
It will be great to hear and seewhat some of the comments are.
Yes.
Oh, Wendy, this,

Lynn (48:20):
it's

Wendy (48:21):
amazing.
I'm grateful to be doing this with you.

Lynn (48:24):
Thank you,

Wendy (48:25):
really, and I look forward to our next session too.

Lynn (48:29):
We've had such amazing conversations today.
And stay tuned because we aregonna have more from Wendy.
You can find out more about Wendyat her website, meet wendy cole.com.
Thank you for joining us today.
Uh, be sure and, and like,subscribe, share rate.
Uh, be sure and share this out to peoplewho you think would be interested.

(48:50):
'cause our whole goal is to educate peopleabout people who were born transgender.
The stories are so important,so please share those.
Please tune in next time.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphy, founderof Women Who Push the Limits.
We will see you next time onDemystifying the Transgender Journey.
Thank you for joining us todayon this episode of Demystifying

(49:10):
the Transgender Journey.
Remember to subscribe so youdon't miss a single episode
of our fascinating interviews.
You can also find more information onour website, the transgender journey.com.
So until next time, staycurious and stay kind.
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