September 23, 2025 • 26 mins
Detective Diaries: Forensic Investigator Tóva Copeman of Private Detectives Answers Investigation describes some of the forensic techniques used in investigation – and with particular note of her own experiments on dead rats…. CSI in real life
For more information see https://www.private-detectives.co.uk/services/fingers2impressions.html
Episode Summary
Join forensic investigator Tóva Copeman for a deep dive into the world of private investigation forensics. Learn about her work solving thefts, her unique academic journey, and her dedication to powerlifting. Discover how scientific methods identify offenders and collect evidence in real-world cases.
In This Episode:
00:00 Introduction to Forensic Investigation 04:00 Decomposition Rates in Forensic Study 07:30 Passion for Forensics and Career Path 10:20 Current Case: Fingerprint Analysis 13:03 Working with Ninhydrin Safely 14:00 Life as a Competitive Powerlifter 16:21 Powerlifting Highlight: BUCS Qualification 19:50 Inspiring Women in Powerlifting 21:40 Career Advice for Aspiring Investigators 22:55 Future Aspirations in Forensics
Key Takeaways:
- Investigate private sector forensics, focusing on cases like thefts and burglaries often overlooked by public services.
- Understand the scientific methods used in forensics, including fingerprint analysis with ninhydrin for evidence collection.
- Learn about the academic journey to become a forensic investigator, covering criminology, forensics, and criminal psychology.
- Discover a passion for powerlifting, balancing a demanding career and studies with competitive sport.
- Gain career advice: explore diverse opportunities in forensics beyond traditional police roles.
Resources Mentioned:
- Private Detectives Answers Investigation: www.private-detectives.co.uk
- UK Fingerprint: www.ukfingerprint.co.uk
- Email: podcast@private-detectives.co.uk
- Phone: +44 207 158 0332
Connect With Guest:
- Tóva Copeman – tova@private-detectives.co.uk
Subscribe to Detective Diaries:
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On Apple Podcasts:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(00:05):
Welcome to Detective Diaries, brought to you
by Private Detective's Answers investigation.
If you're captivated by the art of deduction,
the thrill of solving unsolvable, or the enigmatic world
of private investigation, you have just
found your new favorite podcast.
Detective Diaries are where secrets are unraveled,
(00:27):
and the truth is always a clue away.
Presented by Private Detective Answers investigation,
each episode contains of big conversations
about the real people involved in investigation.
I'm talking with Torva Covary about the subject
(00:55):
of forensics, something that fascinates so many people.
Dictionary definition of forensics.
It refers to the application of scientific methods
and its principles to investigate crimes,
to identify offenders, and collect
(01:16):
and analyze evidence to be used in investigation.
Torva, you're a forensic investigator,
which is a fantastic job title.
What is it all?
So as a forensic investigator, basically,
we look at forensic evidence that is left at a crime scene,
(01:38):
and we'll analyze it, pick it up,
so that we can actually observe it.
And then we will use that to sort of find the criminals
and help engage in court cases at the crime scene.
And you work in the private sector, not the public sector?
Yes, so in the private sector, it's a lot more personal.
(02:02):
We look at more of the crimes that are less prioritised
when people come to us.
They want it done quickly, and they've obviously been very hurt
by what's happened, usually it will be like this or burglary.
So a lot of it will include fingerprints,
(02:24):
which we will take off of an object, for example.
So say there's been a jewelry box and some jewelry's been stolen.
We'll take that jewelry box and analyse the fingerprints on it
and see if we can compare that to anyone that they know
or any suspects that they may have.
I know you have an intubly busy eye.
(02:47):
Working full time.
But from what I understand, you're still finishing your masters?
Yes.
Nearly there?
Yeah, nearly there.
OK.
What's it in?
What are you studying?
So for my masters, I did criminal psychology.
Sort of to give me a broader experience of the criminological
(03:10):
wealth, because psychology is also an extra add-on thing
that I'm very interested in.
And I found it very interesting.
Don't get me wrong.
It's been very chaotic the last few months,
working full time and finishing off my dissertation.
But we've managed to get through it.
And I'm just about to finish.
(03:32):
So hopefully it will all go well.
You mentioned your dissertation.
What's the subject?
So my master's dissertation is looking
at the gendered attitudes of the public towards forgiving
ex-offenders.
So sort of seeing about how the public and their forgiveness
and willing to forgive an ex-offender may
(03:54):
change due to gender bias, or depending
on the offender's gender, essentially.
That sounds fascinating.
And very much on the agenda at the moment.
Yeah.
It was very interesting to do, actually.
I'm very much more of a practical person.
I like to be more hands-on.
But obviously, when it comes to the psychological side,
(04:15):
there's only so much you can do that's hands-on.
So I chose to look at bias in the way that that can--
because there's so many things that that can sort of go towards,
like not just the willingness to forgive that offender
based on their gender, but it then
links to how they get rehabilitated and whether they reoffend
(04:37):
and then whether there's essentially more crime
and more reoffending because people may forgive some more
than others.
OK, that's quite a well.
So you undergraduate degree?
You've proceeded the master's?
Yes.
(04:57):
So I did my undergraduate in chronology and forensics.
Three years of that, my dissertation was absolutely incredible.
So my undergraduate dissertation, I looked at the differences
in aquatic decomposition rates.
So essentially what that means is--
obviously, decomposition is when the body
(05:20):
starts to decompose after someone has died,
and how that can determine time of death,
sort of how they died, that sort of thing.
So what I wanted to look at was whether that differed underwater
and the circumstances that happened before the death
if that altered the rate as well.
(05:43):
So essentially, I looked at-- I used rats, which I know probably
sounds quite disgusting, but obviously I can't use real people.
So what I did is I had one rat in broom temperature,
one in the sun, and then one in the freezer.
And essentially, my theory was that obviously,
(06:03):
you hear these stories about murders and people
storing dead bodies in the freezer,
because they don't have time to destroy it or get rid of it,
that sort of thing.
And so I wanted to know that if you chucked all of them
into the water afterwards, whether the differences between the
temperatures before they went underwater
(06:24):
would alter the rate of decomposition, which essentially,
my hypothesis turned out to be correct in the fact that when
the rat that was in the freezer beforehand decomposed
the slowest, even though the temperature of the waters
were all the same once they were underwater,
because it was frozen beforehand, it meant that the decomposition
(06:44):
rate was a lot slower, because it hadn't started yet,
whereas the one in the heat, obviously,
decomposed the fastest, but they were all then put underwater
in the same temperature.
So it was quite interesting.
It wasn't the nicest, but I found it very exciting and interesting
to handle.
So did people look up the pets when you go
(07:05):
into their house in case you're going to use them as an experiment?
No, it was purely for research purposes.
I mean, obviously the rats were already dead.
They were from pet shop for snakes and things like that.
But my uni was actually really helpful with it.
I mean, they got everything that I needed for me, including
(07:26):
the rats, and then I did the study by myself all
from my brain, essentially.
Have we caught your interest?
More episodes are available right now, including
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(07:48):
to an experienced investigator.
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There's no point in me asking if you enjoy fronzy.
Because there's obviously such a passion with you.
(08:08):
What is it?
What folks should both with the whole thing?
I think it is just one of those things
that I honestly will never know exactly what
fascinates me.
I get told that it's quite weird how fascinated I am
with the gruesome side.
But I think that's just the way that I've
(08:30):
been brought up with biology and science,
and just wanting to go that way.
I just find it so interesting.
And it's such a rare job as well.
And I think that competitiveness side of me also just
doesn't exactly help in me wanting
to get into something that's incredibly rare.
OK, so you're criminology undergraduate degree.
(08:54):
Going then on into a psychology.
I've got my life.
Yep.
OK, just making sure.
But in fact, was that a natural graduation?
Or was it the movement?
So, yeah, so I graduated from my undergrad as normal.
And then my master's was completely set for it.
But the reason why I decided to take the master's
(09:15):
was so that I had multiple routes to take.
Because as I said previously, obviously,
the forensic area is such a rare job to get into.
I mean, obviously, I consider myself incredibly lucky
to get the job that I have now.
But other people aren't so lucky.
(09:36):
And so when I was originally taking my masters,
I knew I was interested in psychology
in the way that criminals think and why they do things
the way that they do.
Why would you chuck a body in the freezer
before dumping it in the water?
Why would you not just dump it in the water?
That sort of thing.
I wanted to know why I was curious to see what in their brain
made them think that way or to even do the crime in the first place.
(10:00):
But it also gave me that second route
so that if I, for some reason, later on in life
decided to change my mind, I had that psychological route
to go down as well.
It was a sensible decision.
But it also just gave me more time to learn even more
about everything that's crime related, I guess.
(10:21):
So day to day, that work.
Well, what are you working on right now?
So right now, forensic wise, we are working on a case for a company.
Obviously, I can't give too much information away.
But it is quite interesting.
We have actually been sent some envelopes,
which essentially had foregrounding cash in.
(10:43):
And they believe that one of their employees stole that cash.
So essentially, what we've been doing or what we've been asked to do
is bring up those fingerprints or any prints that are on the envelope
and then take control prints of their employees
and then sort of compare the two and see if we can find any matches,
(11:03):
which is a long process because obviously
having to take control prints of every employee isn't going to take a day.
But I've been finding it really interesting,
so we've been using the NINHydron, which is basically a chemical treatment.
So we soak the envelope in this acetone type liquid,
which will activate with heat.
(11:26):
And it will bring up any prints that are left behind from their sweat pours.
And then we'll leave that to dry and it will come up in this fluorescent pink color,
which will then show the print or hopefully any prints that we can get.
And then we will then match those with hopefully one of the employees
if their suspicions are correct.
(11:47):
It sounds like something straight out of CSI, but it is not,
I'd imagine not process that's as simple as it is portrayed on the TV.
Oh, definitely not.
I think with the TV, it's portrayed as a two-second job, which it is not at all.
I mean, we've had to do multiple treatments on the envelope to get any prints up.
(12:12):
I mean, the envelopes also came quite crumpled, so it wasn't as easy.
There wasn't any straight thumb prints or fingerprints on there at all
because the envelope had been crumpled up, so obviously prints are going to be distorted.
But it's not like we can just run it through a database
and it just gets picked up straight away.
(12:34):
Because all of those employees aren't going to have their fingerprints on a database.
So we have to go through each at one separately and check for their ridges,
their loops, their wells in their fingerprints and see what is similar
or potentially matches what is on the envelope if we find anything at all.
(12:57):
So it's a process and narrowing it down and looking more closely at the ones
that are in the ones that are in the list?
Exactly, yeah.
You mentioned a chemical in hydrogen, so what's it like working with that?
Do you just boil your sleeves up and get on with it or do you have a detection?
(13:17):
Definitely a protection, because it uses heat and the chemicals in the liquid are quite toxic.
So we have to make sure that we have our lab coats on, gloves on,
and then we also have masks on as well, which quite literally look like world war two masks.
They've got the air filters on either side, but it does the job.
(13:40):
And because to keep the heat in, you have to sort of keep the room shut, where the man behind you is.
So it gets very hot stuffy and the toxic fumes will just be too strong to go in there
without any sort of protection.
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(14:04):
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(14:28):
Well, let's speak stuff.
So okay, when you're not busting criminals or hanging in the living places,
what do you do outside of work or outside of stuff?
So if you've got any time?
Yeah, if I've got any time.
So the only thing that I really prioritise outside of working uni is the gym.
(14:49):
So I'm a professional competitive powerlifter on the outside,
which I may not look like one.
But I've been doing it since I've been at uni,
and it is literally, since I left uni, it's been my life.
Essentially, it's the one thing that is sort of me,
and that's my time outside of work.
(15:10):
Like, if I need to de-stress, I go to the gym.
If I need to just clear my head of anything, I go to the gym.
Like, it is very much what I prioritise,
mental health, what I's, and physical.
I like to be, that is my one thing,
that I always take care of and prioritise when I'm not working or doing uni work.
(15:30):
Powerlifting is not most people's past.
No.
How much can you lift?
So, powerlifting, essentially, for those who don't know.
It is three different types of lifts.
So you've got the squat, the bench and the deadlift.
And when you compete, you'll do three attempts of each,
(15:53):
with your third attempt, being your highest attempt.
And then, basically, whichever ones that the referees
who are watching approve of, that will be your total.
So your total is those three added up together at the end of it.
So for squat, I have squatted 140 kilos.
Well.
(16:14):
Bench is 60 kilos, and deadlift is 167 kilos.
167 kilos, I'll try to do the maths on that,
but it had under £400.
About £300?
Yeah, I think so.
I'm not 100% sure, because we always go by kilos.
My brain is driven to kilos.
(16:35):
We never do pounds, but something around those lines, yeah.
So you're not somebody to be messed with?
No, I would like to think that way.
What's been your highlight in sport?
Oh, probably, you know what, it's Bucks, which is--
it stands for British University Championships.
(16:55):
So while I was at uni, I was competing quite a lot,
as well as also running the society, which we had powerlifting
society at uni.
And Bucks is the biggest uni competition you can do.
You have to qualify doing another competition beforehand
with a certain total.
(17:16):
And then you would qualify for that.
So you couldn't just roll up and do it.
So essentially, why it was my biggest highlight
was because I did it for the first time in my second year
of uni, and it was brilliant.
I had a great day, did really well.
And then I wanted to do it in my third year, obviously,
(17:37):
go again, because it happens once a year.
And I didn't make it.
So I was just due to unforeseen circumstances,
like just busyness and the chaos and my training had just
gone slightly downhill.
So I was like, right, when I did my masters, obviously,
it was my last year.
(17:58):
And you can only do Bucks if you're at uni,
because it's university championships.
So I was determined to get there for that last year,
because it was the last time I could do it.
And I did a competition in November,
and I didn't hit the qualifying total,
because they'd upped it that year as well.
(18:19):
And then I tried again in January, didn't qualify.
Tried again in March, didn't qualify.
And now, when I say this, you're supposed to only compete
once every six months, right?
I competed four times in about four months.
So by the time it got to the fourth comp, it was actually--
I think it was April--
(18:40):
and I managed to qualify, and I'm not even joking.
That day was one of the best moments of my life,
like reaching that qualification total and getting it,
and everyone being there to support me,
especially my society, was just an amazing experience.
And that's why I love competing so much,
(19:01):
because you get that high, not just from--
it's you versus you.
So I was not just proud of myself, but having everyone there
to support me as well was amazing.
So that, I would say, in the sport was probably the best
I liked me.
So you don't give up?
No, I'm very stubborn.
(19:22):
Do you apply that to work as well?
Yeah, I'd like to think so.
I tend to sort of take on a lot, but in a way,
because I'm stubborn enough to know that I can do it.
So, and I get it done, might have a little bit of a messy sort
(19:43):
of need a de-stress moment at some point,
but I end up doing it anyways, because I
know that I could in the first place.
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(20:04):
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You mentioned early about running the society at uni,
so it's not a male dominated sport.
Well, it's not anymore.
And I would like to say that is partially because of me,
(20:27):
and that was my whole reasoning for running the society.
So when I first joined in first year,
there was me and one other girl in the whole society,
of about 60 members.
That was literally just me and her.
And then in second year, I sort of started
becoming specific roles for the society
and sort of learning the trade of running it
(20:48):
and sort of being in the back doors of what
was actually going on rather than just being a member.
And then in my final year, I decided to run it.
And statistic wise, the amount of females
that we've got from then to now is at least 50/50 now.
It's not 60/40 girls.
(21:09):
It is incredible.
And I'm so happy that it's turned out that way
because that was what I planned.
So you were in inspiration?
Wow, maybe.
I just wanted to make sure that women know
they have that feminine power and not to be sort of scared
or nervous because it's a male dominated sport.
(21:30):
Like there's so many more strong females out there now
who are recognising powerlifting as a sport
and realising that they can do it.
And it's incredible to see.
It's really, really nice.
OK, can you apply that into that same kind of inspiration
as a similar example?
I mean, there must be, I'm not sure they're not.
(21:50):
I know that hundreds of people out there
like you, who would like to be the person who does.
Got any advice?
Honestly, I would just say get out there.
Like, there's the one thing that I wish someone would have told me
(22:10):
was don't just go for the police.
As good as the police are, they're not your only option,
especially in the forensics world.
I mean, forensics wise, if you're wanting to be a CSI or things
like that, they don't even go through the police.
They're their own company.
You've got Eurofins, which is their complete own forensic
company.
And they are the ones that do all of the forensic lab stuff.
(22:35):
If that's what people are looking for, police is not the only option.
Don't get me wrong.
The police are absolutely fine.
But broaden your horizons and don't just focus on trying to get into the police
so that you can then go into the forensics.
You don't need to go into the police.
You can go straight into forensics all day one.
Toby, you sound like you've arrived and you are staying where you are.
(23:01):
What happens in the next six months?
Next year?
Next five years?
And fair?
Well, I mean, hopefully I'll be a little less stressed
because I would have my master to deal with anymore.
I don't know.
I would like to take a lot more things on, especially
in the forensics area.
I'd like to learn more things.
(23:24):
Even with the technological side, even the mobile forensics and the computer forensics
and all of that stuff, I'd love to learn.
Not necessarily do it as my day to day thing because I love doing my fingerprinting
and my forensics on fingerprints and on evidence like that.
But I would love to learn more about the technological side
(23:48):
because that is one thing that I never expected
or really thought about learning before I joined here.
So there's always something to learn?
Yes, definitely.
There is so much to learn, especially in forensics
because there's so much that it can account for.
It's not just fingerprints or DNA or blood, it is literally anything.
(24:14):
It's hair fibers, it's computers, it's audio, it's mobile,
it's even bits on the pavement or ink on something
that you can always find forensics somewhere.
So always the traces of where each thread will go?
(24:35):
Always leave a trace, always.
Torba, thank you for talking.
Any message?
For myself?
Well, I would like to think that when I listen to this back in the years time
that my knowledge will expand quite a bit
(24:57):
and I will hopefully be a lot more, even more expertise in this forensics.
Don't think anybody's got any, don't worry.
Torba, thank you again for talking.
No worry.
We hope you enjoyed today's podcast brought to you by Ansys Investigation and UK fingerprint.
(25:22):
If you've enjoyed our conversation and want to learn more about the fascinating world of investigations,
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(25:44):
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(26:05):
that's a minor sign, and www.ukfingerprint.co.uk.
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Thanks once again for tuning in.
(26:25):
Until next time, stay curious and keep seeking the truth.
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(00:05):
Welcome to Detective Diaries, brought to you
by Private Detective's Answers investigation.
If you're captivated by the art of deduction,
the thrill of solving unsolvable, or the enigmatic world
of private investigation, you have just
found your new favorite podcast.
Detective Diaries are where secrets are unraveled,
(00:27):
and the truth is always a clue away.
Presented by Private Detective Answers investigation,
each episode contains of big conversations
about the real people involved in investigation.
I'm talking with Torva Covary about the subject
(00:55):
of forensics, something that fascinates so many people.
Dictionary definition of forensics.
It refers to the application of scientific methods
and its principles to investigate crimes,
to identify offenders, and collect
(01:16):
and analyze evidence to be used in investigation.
Torva, you're a forensic investigator,
which is a fantastic job title.
What is it all?
So as a forensic investigator, basically,
we look at forensic evidence that is left at a crime scene,
(01:38):
and we'll analyze it, pick it up,
so that we can actually observe it.
And then we will use that to sort of find the criminals
and help engage in court cases at the crime scene.
And you work in the private sector, not the public sector?
Yes, so in the private sector, it's a lot more personal.
(02:02):
We look at more of the crimes that are less prioritised
when people come to us.
They want it done quickly, and they've obviously been very hurt
by what's happened, usually it will be like this or burglary.
So a lot of it will include fingerprints,
(02:24):
which we will take off of an object, for example.
So say there's been a jewelry box and some jewelry's been stolen.
We'll take that jewelry box and analyse the fingerprints on it
and see if we can compare that to anyone that they know
or any suspects that they may have.
I know you have an intubly busy eye.
(02:47):
Working full time.
But from what I understand, you're still finishing your masters?
Yes.
Nearly there?
Yeah, nearly there.
OK.
What's it in?
What are you studying?
So for my masters, I did criminal psychology.
Sort of to give me a broader experience of the criminological
(03:10):
wealth, because psychology is also an extra add-on thing
that I'm very interested in.
And I found it very interesting.
Don't get me wrong.
It's been very chaotic the last few months,
working full time and finishing off my dissertation.
But we've managed to get through it.
And I'm just about to finish.
(03:32):
So hopefully it will all go well.
You mentioned your dissertation.
What's the subject?
So my master's dissertation is looking
at the gendered attitudes of the public towards forgiving
ex-offenders.
So sort of seeing about how the public and their forgiveness
and willing to forgive an ex-offender may
(03:54):
change due to gender bias, or depending
on the offender's gender, essentially.
That sounds fascinating.
And very much on the agenda at the moment.
Yeah.
It was very interesting to do, actually.
I'm very much more of a practical person.
I like to be more hands-on.
But obviously, when it comes to the psychological side,
(04:15):
there's only so much you can do that's hands-on.
So I chose to look at bias in the way that that can--
because there's so many things that that can sort of go towards,
like not just the willingness to forgive that offender
based on their gender, but it then
links to how they get rehabilitated and whether they reoffend
(04:37):
and then whether there's essentially more crime
and more reoffending because people may forgive some more
than others.
OK, that's quite a well.
So you undergraduate degree?
You've proceeded the master's?
Yes.
(04:57):
So I did my undergraduate in chronology and forensics.
Three years of that, my dissertation was absolutely incredible.
So my undergraduate dissertation, I looked at the differences
in aquatic decomposition rates.
So essentially what that means is--
obviously, decomposition is when the body
(05:20):
starts to decompose after someone has died,
and how that can determine time of death,
sort of how they died, that sort of thing.
So what I wanted to look at was whether that differed underwater
and the circumstances that happened before the death
if that altered the rate as well.
(05:43):
So essentially, I looked at-- I used rats, which I know probably
sounds quite disgusting, but obviously I can't use real people.
So what I did is I had one rat in broom temperature,
one in the sun, and then one in the freezer.
And essentially, my theory was that obviously,
(06:03):
you hear these stories about murders and people
storing dead bodies in the freezer,
because they don't have time to destroy it or get rid of it,
that sort of thing.
And so I wanted to know that if you chucked all of them
into the water afterwards, whether the differences between the
temperatures before they went underwater
(06:24):
would alter the rate of decomposition, which essentially,
my hypothesis turned out to be correct in the fact that when
the rat that was in the freezer beforehand decomposed
the slowest, even though the temperature of the waters
were all the same once they were underwater,
because it was frozen beforehand, it meant that the decomposition
(06:44):
rate was a lot slower, because it hadn't started yet,
whereas the one in the heat, obviously,
decomposed the fastest, but they were all then put underwater
in the same temperature.
So it was quite interesting.
It wasn't the nicest, but I found it very exciting and interesting
to handle.
So did people look up the pets when you go
(07:05):
into their house in case you're going to use them as an experiment?
No, it was purely for research purposes.
I mean, obviously the rats were already dead.
They were from pet shop for snakes and things like that.
But my uni was actually really helpful with it.
I mean, they got everything that I needed for me, including
(07:26):
the rats, and then I did the study by myself all
from my brain, essentially.
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(07:48):
to an experienced investigator.
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There's no point in me asking if you enjoy fronzy.
Because there's obviously such a passion with you.
(08:08):
What is it?
What folks should both with the whole thing?
I think it is just one of those things
that I honestly will never know exactly what
fascinates me.
I get told that it's quite weird how fascinated I am
with the gruesome side.
But I think that's just the way that I've
(08:30):
been brought up with biology and science,
and just wanting to go that way.
I just find it so interesting.
And it's such a rare job as well.
And I think that competitiveness side of me also just
doesn't exactly help in me wanting
to get into something that's incredibly rare.
OK, so you're criminology undergraduate degree.
(08:54):
Going then on into a psychology.
I've got my life.
Yep.
OK, just making sure.
But in fact, was that a natural graduation?
Or was it the movement?
So, yeah, so I graduated from my undergrad as normal.
And then my master's was completely set for it.
But the reason why I decided to take the master's
(09:15):
was so that I had multiple routes to take.
Because as I said previously, obviously,
the forensic area is such a rare job to get into.
I mean, obviously, I consider myself incredibly lucky
to get the job that I have now.
But other people aren't so lucky.
(09:36):
And so when I was originally taking my masters,
I knew I was interested in psychology
in the way that criminals think and why they do things
the way that they do.
Why would you chuck a body in the freezer
before dumping it in the water?
Why would you not just dump it in the water?
That sort of thing.
I wanted to know why I was curious to see what in their brain
made them think that way or to even do the crime in the first place.
(10:00):
But it also gave me that second route
so that if I, for some reason, later on in life
decided to change my mind, I had that psychological route
to go down as well.
It was a sensible decision.
But it also just gave me more time to learn even more
about everything that's crime related, I guess.
(10:21):
So day to day, that work.
Well, what are you working on right now?
So right now, forensic wise, we are working on a case for a company.
Obviously, I can't give too much information away.
But it is quite interesting.
We have actually been sent some envelopes,
which essentially had foregrounding cash in.
(10:43):
And they believe that one of their employees stole that cash.
So essentially, what we've been doing or what we've been asked to do
is bring up those fingerprints or any prints that are on the envelope
and then take control prints of their employees
and then sort of compare the two and see if we can find any matches,
(11:03):
which is a long process because obviously
having to take control prints of every employee isn't going to take a day.
But I've been finding it really interesting,
so we've been using the NINHydron, which is basically a chemical treatment.
So we soak the envelope in this acetone type liquid,
which will activate with heat.
(11:26):
And it will bring up any prints that are left behind from their sweat pours.
And then we'll leave that to dry and it will come up in this fluorescent pink color,
which will then show the print or hopefully any prints that we can get.
And then we will then match those with hopefully one of the employees
if their suspicions are correct.
(11:47):
It sounds like something straight out of CSI, but it is not,
I'd imagine not process that's as simple as it is portrayed on the TV.
Oh, definitely not.
I think with the TV, it's portrayed as a two-second job, which it is not at all.
I mean, we've had to do multiple treatments on the envelope to get any prints up.
(12:12):
I mean, the envelopes also came quite crumpled, so it wasn't as easy.
There wasn't any straight thumb prints or fingerprints on there at all
because the envelope had been crumpled up, so obviously prints are going to be distorted.
But it's not like we can just run it through a database
and it just gets picked up straight away.
(12:34):
Because all of those employees aren't going to have their fingerprints on a database.
So we have to go through each at one separately and check for their ridges,
their loops, their wells in their fingerprints and see what is similar
or potentially matches what is on the envelope if we find anything at all.
(12:57):
So it's a process and narrowing it down and looking more closely at the ones
that are in the ones that are in the list?
Exactly, yeah.
You mentioned a chemical in hydrogen, so what's it like working with that?
Do you just boil your sleeves up and get on with it or do you have a detection?
(13:17):
Definitely a protection, because it uses heat and the chemicals in the liquid are quite toxic.
So we have to make sure that we have our lab coats on, gloves on,
and then we also have masks on as well, which quite literally look like world war two masks.
They've got the air filters on either side, but it does the job.
(13:40):
And because to keep the heat in, you have to sort of keep the room shut, where the man behind you is.
So it gets very hot stuffy and the toxic fumes will just be too strong to go in there
without any sort of protection.
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(14:04):
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(14:28):
Well, let's speak stuff.
So okay, when you're not busting criminals or hanging in the living places,
what do you do outside of work or outside of stuff?
So if you've got any time?
Yeah, if I've got any time.
So the only thing that I really prioritise outside of working uni is the gym.
(14:49):
So I'm a professional competitive powerlifter on the outside,
which I may not look like one.
But I've been doing it since I've been at uni,
and it is literally, since I left uni, it's been my life.
Essentially, it's the one thing that is sort of me,
and that's my time outside of work.
(15:10):
Like, if I need to de-stress, I go to the gym.
If I need to just clear my head of anything, I go to the gym.
Like, it is very much what I prioritise,
mental health, what I's, and physical.
I like to be, that is my one thing,
that I always take care of and prioritise when I'm not working or doing uni work.
(15:30):
Powerlifting is not most people's past.
No.
How much can you lift?
So, powerlifting, essentially, for those who don't know.
It is three different types of lifts.
So you've got the squat, the bench and the deadlift.
And when you compete, you'll do three attempts of each,
(15:53):
with your third attempt, being your highest attempt.
And then, basically, whichever ones that the referees
who are watching approve of, that will be your total.
So your total is those three added up together at the end of it.
So for squat, I have squatted 140 kilos.
Well.
(16:14):
Bench is 60 kilos, and deadlift is 167 kilos.
167 kilos, I'll try to do the maths on that,
but it had under £400.
About £300?
Yeah, I think so.
I'm not 100% sure, because we always go by kilos.
My brain is driven to kilos.
(16:35):
We never do pounds, but something around those lines, yeah.
So you're not somebody to be messed with?
No, I would like to think that way.
What's been your highlight in sport?
Oh, probably, you know what, it's Bucks, which is--
it stands for British University Championships.
(16:55):
So while I was at uni, I was competing quite a lot,
as well as also running the society, which we had powerlifting
society at uni.
And Bucks is the biggest uni competition you can do.
You have to qualify doing another competition beforehand
with a certain total.
(17:16):
And then you would qualify for that.
So you couldn't just roll up and do it.
So essentially, why it was my biggest highlight
was because I did it for the first time in my second year
of uni, and it was brilliant.
I had a great day, did really well.
And then I wanted to do it in my third year, obviously,
(17:37):
go again, because it happens once a year.
And I didn't make it.
So I was just due to unforeseen circumstances,
like just busyness and the chaos and my training had just
gone slightly downhill.
So I was like, right, when I did my masters, obviously,
it was my last year.
(17:58):
And you can only do Bucks if you're at uni,
because it's university championships.
So I was determined to get there for that last year,
because it was the last time I could do it.
And I did a competition in November,
and I didn't hit the qualifying total,
because they'd upped it that year as well.
(18:19):
And then I tried again in January, didn't qualify.
Tried again in March, didn't qualify.
And now, when I say this, you're supposed to only compete
once every six months, right?
I competed four times in about four months.
So by the time it got to the fourth comp, it was actually--
I think it was April--
(18:40):
and I managed to qualify, and I'm not even joking.
That day was one of the best moments of my life,
like reaching that qualification total and getting it,
and everyone being there to support me,
especially my society, was just an amazing experience.
And that's why I love competing so much,
(19:01):
because you get that high, not just from--
it's you versus you.
So I was not just proud of myself, but having everyone there
to support me as well was amazing.
So that, I would say, in the sport was probably the best
I liked me.
So you don't give up?
No, I'm very stubborn.
(19:22):
Do you apply that to work as well?
Yeah, I'd like to think so.
I tend to sort of take on a lot, but in a way,
because I'm stubborn enough to know that I can do it.
So, and I get it done, might have a little bit of a messy sort
(19:43):
of need a de-stress moment at some point,
but I end up doing it anyways, because I
know that I could in the first place.
Hello, I'm Meti in Middleton, and listen
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as a private detective, what it was like growing up in Singapore,
(20:04):
and my life as a criminology student here on Detective Diaries.
You mentioned early about running the society at uni,
so it's not a male dominated sport.
Well, it's not anymore.
And I would like to say that is partially because of me,
(20:27):
and that was my whole reasoning for running the society.
So when I first joined in first year,
there was me and one other girl in the whole society,
of about 60 members.
That was literally just me and her.
And then in second year, I sort of started
becoming specific roles for the society
and sort of learning the trade of running it
(20:48):
and sort of being in the back doors of what
was actually going on rather than just being a member.
And then in my final year, I decided to run it.
And statistic wise, the amount of females
that we've got from then to now is at least 50/50 now.
It's not 60/40 girls.
(21:09):
It is incredible.
And I'm so happy that it's turned out that way
because that was what I planned.
So you were in inspiration?
Wow, maybe.
I just wanted to make sure that women know
they have that feminine power and not to be sort of scared
or nervous because it's a male dominated sport.
(21:30):
Like there's so many more strong females out there now
who are recognising powerlifting as a sport
and realising that they can do it.
And it's incredible to see.
It's really, really nice.
OK, can you apply that into that same kind of inspiration
as a similar example?
I mean, there must be, I'm not sure they're not.
(21:50):
I know that hundreds of people out there
like you, who would like to be the person who does.
Got any advice?
Honestly, I would just say get out there.
Like, there's the one thing that I wish someone would have told me
(22:10):
was don't just go for the police.
As good as the police are, they're not your only option,
especially in the forensics world.
I mean, forensics wise, if you're wanting to be a CSI or things
like that, they don't even go through the police.
They're their own company.
You've got Eurofins, which is their complete own forensic
company.
And they are the ones that do all of the forensic lab stuff.
(22:35):
If that's what people are looking for, police is not the only option.
Don't get me wrong.
The police are absolutely fine.
But broaden your horizons and don't just focus on trying to get into the police
so that you can then go into the forensics.
You don't need to go into the police.
You can go straight into forensics all day one.
Toby, you sound like you've arrived and you are staying where you are.
(23:01):
What happens in the next six months?
Next year?
Next five years?
And fair?
Well, I mean, hopefully I'll be a little less stressed
because I would have my master to deal with anymore.
I don't know.
I would like to take a lot more things on, especially
in the forensics area.
I'd like to learn more things.
(23:24):
Even with the technological side, even the mobile forensics and the computer forensics
and all of that stuff, I'd love to learn.
Not necessarily do it as my day to day thing because I love doing my fingerprinting
and my forensics on fingerprints and on evidence like that.
But I would love to learn more about the technological side
(23:48):
because that is one thing that I never expected
or really thought about learning before I joined here.
So there's always something to learn?
Yes, definitely.
There is so much to learn, especially in forensics
because there's so much that it can account for.
It's not just fingerprints or DNA or blood, it is literally anything.
(24:14):
It's hair fibers, it's computers, it's audio, it's mobile,
it's even bits on the pavement or ink on something
that you can always find forensics somewhere.
So always the traces of where each thread will go?
(24:35):
Always leave a trace, always.
Torba, thank you for talking.
Any message?
For myself?
Well, I would like to think that when I listen to this back in the years time
that my knowledge will expand quite a bit
(24:57):
and I will hopefully be a lot more, even more expertise in this forensics.
Don't think anybody's got any, don't worry.
Torba, thank you again for talking.
No worry.
We hope you enjoyed today's podcast brought to you by Ansys Investigation and UK fingerprint.
(25:22):
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(25:44):
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(26:05):
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You can call their office on 02-0-7158-0332.
Thanks once again for tuning in.
(26:25):
Until next time, stay curious and keep seeking the truth.
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