#144 - AJ Herrmann - People Analytics at the CIA, Cognitive Biases, and Task Intelligence

Check out this episode of the #1 people analytics podcast with special guest, AJ Herrmann, Previous Executive Director of Strategic Workforce Planning at Cleveland Clinic! Hosts Cole Napper and Scott Hines welcome AJ for an in-depth conversation that spans covert intelligence work, advanced people analytics, and the human side of workforce strategy. AJ takes listeners behind the curtain of his extraordinary career. Before entering the private sector, he spent a decade as a CIA intelligence analyst and White House briefer, sharpening the analytic tradecraft that now powers his corporate insights. He explains how long nights preparing the President’s Daily Brief demanded precision, discipline, and the ability to question every assumption—skills that translate directly into strategic decision-making for business leaders. With candor and humor, AJ separates Hollywood myth from reality: no car chases, few gadgets, and a lot of quiet, meticulous work at “the Agency,” where influence comes from rigorous analysis and trust. Moving from national security to global corporations wasn’t a simple leap. AJ describes how the transition to management consulting and eventually Cleveland Clinic required the same curiosity and persistence that guided him in government service. At the Clinic, he led transformative role redesign projects to confront healthcare staffing shortages. Rather than simply trying to hire more people, AJ and his team deconstructed jobs task by task, challenging long-standing processes and surfacing hidden inefficiencies. He shares vivid examples of how mapping real workforce activity—down to informal hallway conversations and unrecorded duties—revealed opportunities to redistribute tasks, empower employees, and dramatically improve patient care. Cole and Scott steer the conversation into the future of work and the realities of AI. AJ warns leaders not to fall for vendor hype or “pixie dust” promises. Automation, he argues, changes tasks, not entire jobs overnight. Successful adoption begins with deep understanding of the work itself and the people who perform it. Only then can organizations deploy technology that truly augments human capability. He highlights uniquely human advantages—empathy, creativity, complex problem-solving—that machines cannot replicate and that HR and analytics professionals must champion as they design tomorrow’s organizations. Throughout the episode, listeners also get to enjoy the lighter side of AJ’s journey. From legendary office pranks involving packing peanuts and a life-size Chewbacca to amusing “confusion matrix” games and a story about wearing a fedora in New Orleans, AJ shows that even a former spy appreciates humor and connection. Cole and Scott join in, reflecting on how curiosity, humility, and a willingness to test boundaries can strengthen any team. The discussion ultimately paints a comprehensive picture of how modern analytics can drive smarter, more humane business decisions. Whether it’s identifying weak signals in global intelligence or surfacing trends in employee data, AJ demonstrates that rigorous analysis and a commitment to truth are universal tools. He offers practical advice for HR leaders, data scientists, and executives seeking to balance innovation with ethics: challenge every assumption, question your own bias, and remember that culture and trust outlast any technology cycle. Listeners interested in leadership, workforce strategy, or simply an inspiring career path will find value in every minute of this conversation. AJ’s insights bridge worlds—government and private sector, covert operations and transparent leadership, cutting-edge AI and timeless human connection—showing that the best workforce planning begins with understanding people at the deepest level. If you like this episode, you’d also love exploring prior episodes—visit colenapper.com for the full archive and show links.