We Can Recover — Robert Greer on Brotherhood, Addiction, and the Fight to Come Home - Dispatched & Dysfunctional

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 4 (00:00):
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What's your emergency?
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Emotional includes dark humor thatmay not be suitable for all listeners.
Discretion is advised.
These stores are based on real life EMS,military and healthcare experiences.

(00:21):
Calls are real.
Providers are real names and detailshave been changed to protect privacy.
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Any medical or mental health discussionis personal experience, not protocol.
Use your damn brain.
Follow your local guidelines, andwithout a doubt, call make control.
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Talk to someone, a coworker, a friend,a therapist, or hell reach out to me.

(00:43):
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Need help right now.
Text or call 9 8 8 orvisit 9 8 8 lifeline.org.

Christopher Stockton (00:51):
All right, you're listening to Dispatch Dysfunctional,
where chaos has a pulse and thequiet after a call is sometimes
the loudest sound in the room.
Today's guest has seen both sides ofthe badge, and the fight to survive it.
17 years in law enforcement, corrections,crimes against children, the FBI task
force before trauma and addictionnearly took everything from him.
He's now helping come back from thatsame advocate warrior Robert Greer.

Robert Greer (01:16):
Thanks Chris.
Man, I really appreciate being on.

Robert, I've introduced you, but only
you can really tell your story.
Before we dive in, what do youwant listeners to take away
from today's conversations?

As long as you're drawing breath, you still have fight in you.
A lot of us kind of lose our purposewhen that job ends, but your job will
be posted long before your obituary.
You know, there's so muchlife after the badge so much.

Yes, sir. And that's powerful, and
that's a perfect place to start.
So let's go back to the night, everythingbroke for you, Robert, I know you've
shared your story before where thenight, where one night everything
broke for you, the badge, the bottle,the evidence, the silence for those.
Hearing your story for the first time,can you take us there and explain it?

Yeah, the, in the quick version of that story,
there was a lot that led up to it.
But e essentially I was at my rock bottom.
You know, rock bottom is, is difficult,but it can be a beautiful place as well.
'cause the only placeto go was up from there.
But at that stage, at that point inmy life, it was, um, August 1st, 2020.
Um.

(02:20):
The wife and I had separated i'd, I'dalready lost my job two years before we'd
lost the house living with her parents.
Um.
I was just spiraling.
And the night before I had made thissomewhat poetic Facebook post, at
least I thought it was, but you know,I was a, a bit impaired when I made
it and, uh, was trying to be poetic.

(02:40):
She read it and sent me an email thatday, uh, saying that she was in fear
for safety and filing for separation.
And, uh, you know, wewere already separated.
I'd been moved out for about a monthand I was sleeping on a mattress.
Uh.
In the, on the floor of a buddy'shouse, you know, go, I was gonna
be his handyman, uh, fixing theplace up so he could rent it out.

(03:03):
And that night, man, it was justas low as it could possibly be.
I was all alone.
I'd isolated myself for a couple ofyears previous to that anyway, so
I just didn't feel like there wasanybody I could reach out to, you know?
So, uh, in one hand, literally,you know, in one hand was the
gun, the other hand was the phone.
So I had to make a choice.

Well, you made the right one.
You're still here with us.

Absolutely.

Christopher Stockton: That's the biggest thing. (03:27):
undefined
That's the biggest takeaway from allthis is you always make that choice.
Make sure you make the right one.
The world is never better.

I. Yeah, absolutely, man.
Uh, you know, we all reached that.
A lot of us reached that point and we, we
consider committing the ultimate act.
Right.
And I just couldn't do that.
You know, I was listening to a podcastat that time called Friends in Recovery,
and, uh, for those familiar with it,it's, uh, a guy from Jersey and it's
another guy from I think Massachusetts,uh, who was a cop, turned into a, uh.

(03:57):
A clinician and they do an excellentpodcast, and I was listening to it and one
of the things they said on one of thoseepisodes was, uh, suicide is hereditary.
You know, oftentimes if, if a parentdoes it and the kids will follow in
their steps, that resonated with me.
You know, for our kids, youknow, we're the toughest.
Some bitches they know.

Right.

if we can't take it, if we can't go through
it, what chance do they have?
That would be the thought process.
I just couldn't do that.
I couldn't do that.
Plus, I wanted a better life and Iknew it was out there and knew it was
possible, so I had to fight back andyou know, that night I picked up the
phone and started making some calls.

Hell yeah.
I'm glad you're still here with us, man.
So you've worked nearlyevery side of the job.
What part started wearing you down first?

Yeah.
So my career was odd in some ways.
It was kind of backwardsin some ways, right?
Uh, what I mean by that is, uh,with most sheriff's offices,
you start off in the jail.
You work your way to patrol, thenyou work your way to detectives.
You know, you move up in that fashion.
And due to some policy changes withinthe agency that I worked for, I went
straight from the jail to detectives.
Um, so I, I started gettingburned out kind of fast in a way.

(05:02):
Initially I went to, uh, financialcrimes and I was doing quite well.
Uh, but then I got assigned to theInternet Crimes Against Children
Task Force, and that began a,began a, a hell of a grind on me.
You know, I, because I didthat for five years between.
Well, I was in financial crimesand doing the task force part-time,

(05:23):
you know, uh, they would have us doit, uh, one week out of the month.
Um, but it was pretty intensewhen we would do it right.
Um, so I still work in financial crimesand doing that, and then, uh, after
about 16 months or so, they transferredme over to use services full time.
So I was doing it all the time, youknow, not just the task force, but also

(05:43):
regularly assigned crimes in the parish.
Um.
And it, it began towear on me pretty heavy.
And there were some cases that wentbad, uh, some arrests that I was unable
to make that really stuck with me.
So it really began to grind on methere, you know, 'cause I was seeing the
worst thing I'd ever seen in my life.
You know, hundreds of thousandsof pictures, thousands of videos

(06:04):
of just some really awful stuff.
And what I was the, the personI was having to portray online.
Was detestable, you know, 'causeone of my profiles was of a, an
adult, uh, single father, um, thatwas a perpetrator to his children.
And it
was, it.
It, you know, I was able to make a lotof arrest with that, you know, catch, uh,

(06:24):
some of the more crafty, I guess you couldsay, pedophiles, you know, but it, that,
that was difficult and it got to the pointwhere I just could not do it anymore.
I couldn't look at the pictures,I couldn't hear the audio.
Um, I couldn't interview the kids.
I was, you know, trained for, uh.
Child and adolescent forensicinterview and by the FBI and sometimes
I do those interviews myself andI just, I couldn't do it anymore,

(06:48):
you know, so it really weird, uh, woreme down during that timeframe and then
I went to patrol and started seeing allthe other stuff, you know, so, yeah.
But believe it or not, it was a welcomerelief when I left, uh, youth services and
left the task force and went to patrol.

I would imagine that's a lot of,
damn, that's, that's a lot.
I, I could only imagine the toll thatwould take on you mentally, especially
if you have kids and you know familiesand that that's gotta be hard.

Yeah, and there was a lot of other aspects to it.
Um, you know, when people found out whatyou did for a living, investigate that
type of crime, for whatever reason, theyfelt safe and comfortable around me enough
to disclose what happened to them whenthey were younger, not necessarily in the.
Effort to get it prosecuted orinvestigated, but just feeling like
they felt safe enough to, to air it out.

(07:43):
And it, you know, I, I felt honoredin a way that they felt that
safe around me and I wasn't gonnadeny them an opportunity to heal.
But man, it was a lot.
You know, I, I dealt with it all dayat work, and this is stuff that would
happen at church sometimes, you know,people that I would see at church.
Yeah.
Um, in another areas.
So, yeah, it was a,

So your, your work was wound up going into
your personal life quite a bit.

A lot.
Yeah.
A heck of a lot.

So here's a question that follows up with that.
So, how does burnout hide behindroutine and law enforcement?

Well, uh.
That's an interesting question.
You know, when I was, I guessyounger with the department, I
still had that energy and that fire.
I would refer to some of the olderdeputies that seemed to be burned
out as, uh, shade Tree deputies.
You know, you see 'em parkedunderneath Shade Tree.
Not really being proactive with anything.
You know, um, and justkind of hiding from work.

(08:40):
Eventually, I was just kind of beatendown enough, uh, that I was one of
those Shade Tree deputies, you know?
Uh, so the burnout can, canpresent in a couple different ways.
Uh, can also present withthe saltiness, if you will.
You know, somebody's just becomingin excessively grumpy, uh, which
was definitely me to a t, you know?
Uh, so there's a lot of waysthat burnout presents itself.

(09:03):
Yeah.

Yeah, I hear that.
So you've said silencewas your worst partner.
What did I that isolationlook like day to day?

I am sorry, can you repeat the question?
The internet kind ofcut out a little there.

Yes, sir. You've said silence was your worst partner.
What did that isolationlook like day to day?

So progressed, I guess you could say over the years.
Um, the Shade Tree deputy thatI mentioned, part of that shade
tree for me was a, a, a quiet.
Uh, isolated spot to cry because therewas a time, I, I, I don't know what
happened, you know, I don't know.
I guess just choking itback all those years.

(09:45):
Um, I would be out somewhere in the parishunderneath the shade tree, just crying
my eyes out, not really understandingwhy, you know, you're trained to be
stoical and seeing, hold back youremotions, but let it out later, but later,
never really happens because you're.
You know, onto the next call.
So it would come out at times like that.
So that was, you know, part ofthe isolation and withdrawal.

(10:07):
But it was also beginning.
Yeah, I was beginning to kind ofdistance myself from activities
that had always brought me pleasure,you know, been part of my life.
Church, for example, began to,uh, I couldn't show my face there,
you know, for a lot of reasons.
So I decided not to go anymore.
Um, you know, withdrawing from.

(10:27):
Family activities or, you know, groupfriend activities and not returning
calls, you know, stuff like that.
Um, excuse me.
That's why I was still on thejob and living in Shreveport.
And then after, after I lost the career,uh, I was terminated, uh, for, you know,
policy violations, but all of 'em wereresult of the PTS and the substance use.

(10:49):
Um.
Isolated even more.
You know, we, we were in abankruptcy 'cause alcoholics can't
manage money for, damn Right.
Um, so, you know, we hadto surrender the house.
We moved in with our parents andthat summer I had, you know, we were,
I had been awarded a, a, a smalldisability through the pension fund.

(11:11):
We were moving, I was turning 40.
So I had this big party, invited allmy work friends and they didn't show.
You know, they had hadenough of my shit, right.
They were kind ofdistancing themselves too.
Uh, so it didn't show.
So that made me isolateeven worse, you know?
'cause I had this, uh, I don'tknow, negative cognition.

(11:31):
You know, I just continued to beratemyself, you know, in my head verbally
that, you know, I'm worthless and no good.
Nobody likes me.
And you know, that kind ofconfirmed it to a large degree.
Now I take responsibility for a lotof that, but still, and when we moved
down to, um, her parents' house.
I mean, I was off social media.
I wasn't hanging out withanybody other than family.

(11:54):
Uh, and that was it.
You know, I was, I was just so withdrawn.
I stayed away fromeverybody, isolated a lot.
And then of course, when she booted meout and I had nobody else, you know, I did
have family in the area, but I couldn'tgo live with them, but with my habits,
with my issues, with my substances.
So I just took that as a sign,you know, stayed in that house

(12:15):
by myself most of the time.

Yeah,

It was a, yeah.
Lonely place.

I bet.
And that, that actually brings me to mynext question really, is when did you
realize that the brotherhood behind, youknow, law enforcement, EMS and all that
wasn't actually gonna save you this time?

Well,
probably in August of 2018, uh, when Ihad that little going away party, you
know, uh, and nobody really showed and.
That's when I really began to feel it.
Um, and I just felt like I wasn'tpart of that thin blue line anymore,

(12:55):
you know, that I wasn't part of thegroup, wasn't part of the brotherhood.
Um, I guess it didn't really sinkin that I had to save myself until
I finally picked up the phone thatnobody else was gonna help, you know?
Um, that I had to do it on my own.

I've been there.
Um, I actually left the ambulance to gooffshore and the people I used to talk to.
Have now secluded me.
Um, don't know why, don't knowwhat for, but like you said, you
know, I made a phone call to a fewof them and nothing ever happened.
You know, it's like, it's likewhen we better ourselves, no

(13:35):
one else is happy for you.
And, and that goes on both sidesof the token is when we see each
other struggling, we don't seemto help as much as we should.
You know the partners on the trucks, thepartners in the cars, your partner period,
should be able to notice any slightdifferentials in you, any slight changes.

(13:58):
You know, to know something isbothering you, to know something needs
to change or to know that there issomething wrong that you won't talk
about and they should be able to

Exactly.

get you help you.

Exactly, and, and I will say that the tide has, has been changing
over the years and I'm happy to see itand I'm also happy to be a part of it.
Uh, being able to go back and participatein Louisiana with the state police for
post-critical incident seminar, youknow, a three and a half day program
where first responders come in and.
You know, just have a little bitof an introduction to, uh, EMDR,

(14:35):
massage yoga, uh, stuff like that.
A lot of the, uh, stuff that we do atWarrior's Heart, you know, they get a
little bit of an introduction to it.
I, it's, it's great for me to goback to and connect with those
guys and share my story with themand show 'em that there's, uh.
You know, a future out there, butalso watch out for these, these
things that could tear you down.

(14:55):
Right?
So the, the tide is changing inthat regard, and that thin blue
line ha has taken another shape,you know, because there's hard
chargers that are on the line.
And then there's the otherswho have been there, done that
and are now helping the others.
And the warrior community, it's,you know, the older statesman,
I think as say a warrior wouldput it, it's the older statesman,

(15:16):
you know, it's almost like a, uh.
One of the chiefs in a NativeAmerican tribe that has been in
those battles before and now he'shelping the others make it through.
So it's, it's, it kind of takes adifferent, different shape these days.
But the, the tide is definitely changing.
I hear from peer support, um, officersand programs all the time, you know,

(15:37):
trying to get somebody into treatmentand trying to get 'em some help.
So that's, that's a good thing.
It's a good thing these days.
We are being more open about it.

So how did you find Warrior's Heart, and what did
walking through those doors feel like?

Purely by accident.
Purely by accident.
Lemme say that.
Um, so that night I mentioned, you know,I've been listening to that podcast.
That podcast was sponsored by a placecalled, uh, the Genesis House in Florida.
So that night I picked upthe phone and obviously that
was the first place I called.
I didn't know anything about rehab.

(16:12):
Where do I go?
What do I do?
You know?
I had no insurance at all.
'cause when I was terminated I was,I was fired and advised to apply for
disability through our pension fund.
It's a 75% disability pension, whichis a little over $2,000 a month for a
family of five and no insurance, right?
So, uh, I didn't have many options there.
Um, when I called, you know, theywanted to help, but it, it cost

(16:36):
about $10,000, uh, for their 30 dayprogram, which, you know, isn't bad.
But I was about 40 grand short.
You know, that, that math just don't math.
Um.
So I couldn't go there.
But you know, fortunately there were, uh,some good people there and they said, Hey,
if you know, maybe, you know, call thisguy named Maddie Fiza out in California.
See if he can help you out.

(16:58):
Now Matt is also known in the,uh, warrior community as well.
Uh, Anaheim firefighter wentthrough some rough times.
He, I believe he has a, uh,program out there in California.
Uh, but he is also anadvocate to help others.
So I called him.
Wasn't able to, you know,based on that referral.
Wasn't able to get into hisprogram either, but he said, Hey,

(17:18):
this is what I want you to do.
I want you to call, um,this guy named Michael Dell.
He's with Warrior's Heart.
I want you to call him tomorrowmorning at 10 o'clock in the morning.
This is like Saturday night, right?
He's telling me to callhim on a Sunday morning.

Okay.

And so I pull up the website and I'm like, man, this
looks like a place for military.
I, I'm not a vet. I can't go there.
And he is like, no, no, no.
It's for, it's for copsand first responders too.
You should, you should check into it.
Look at it.
So I did, looked at it, okay.
You know, I'll call the guytomorrow morning and you
know, I'm thinking it's, uh.
I'm gonna be a call taker.

(17:52):
Right.
Um, but Maddie had prepped Mike andto let him know I was gonna be called,
I called at 10 o'clock and when heanswered the phone, he goes, hi Robert.
I'm Michael.
I've been waiting for your call.
What can I do to help you out?
Holy shit.
Yeah, exactly.
Um.
And I, I don't know what it wasabout that, but I just started just
slinging snot crying everywhere.

(18:13):
Ugly crying, right?
And just telling my story, please help me.
Oh my God, I'm dying.
You know, this, that sort of thing, right?
I laid it all out there and, okay, sohe, he did what he could to help me.
Um, and, you know, uh, I hadto get some foundations to help
out, but I did what it took.
You know, I started to GoFundMe.
Um.

(18:34):
Uh, applied for foundations andI was starting to get back on
Facebook again and share my story.
And, uh, uh, a foundation reachedout, helped, uh, you know, throw a
little extra in to, you know, helpout with my out-of-pocket expenses.
So, yeah.
And within, within abouttwo weeks I was there.
I checked in on August 18th of20 and at the height of COVID.

Oh, that.

Oh, it was great.
I, I went to San Antonio.
I lived in Louisiana.
Uh, it's about an eight hourdrive, so drove to San Antonio.
Had to get a, uh, a COVID test,so I had to stay the night in,
um, downtown San Antonio to hotel.
One of the only ones open.
Got a COVID test the nextmorning, went and drove around.
Looked at, uh, the bustlingmetropolis at Bandera, Texas.

(19:20):
A little small place, but I love it.
It's great.
Uh, did a few other things.
Had my last two beers ever at TJ's atthe Old Forge on Main Street in Bandera,
and checked in that evening, 1800.

And you haven't looked back since.
That's awesome.

Well, uh, I ended up staying over there about seven and a half months.
You know, I did the six week inpatientand then went straight into sober
living, um, and did, uh, two months.
Uh, I stayed in sober living forfive months, and while I was there,
I did two months of, uh, IOP.
Um, I got a, a service dog, afull service dog named baby.
She's probably snoring on the couchover there somewhere, uh, through the

(19:58):
program, you know, and the dogs did costextra, but again, I, you know, was able
to work some foundations and, and, someother friends, uh, forgotten about it.
Helped, uh, they threw in on it and yeah,so I, I participated in everything they
had to offer, but I, I, at that point.
I was so desperate for change.
I was so sick of who I'd become,that I was willing to do whatever.

(20:20):
You know, I initially, when Iwent in, I was, uh, hoping to
save the marriage, but she made itpretty clear about halfway through
treatment that wasn't gonna happen.
So, you know, it was atthat point, I, I dove in.
And you know, that's whatI keep telling people.
You dive into an AA program and doeverything that's required of you.
Uh, and, you know, do the therapy thatplaces like Warriors Heart offers,

(20:42):
and you're gonna be successful.
You put everything you have intothat, like you did your career,
you willing to do whatever inthe hell it took for your career.
Some really crazy stuff.
You know, some difficult stuff.
Some hard stuff just to, just for thatcareer that threw you out, uh, that
you know you're no longer a part of.
If you could do the same, putthe same effort in for yourself.
You're gonna be successful, you're gonnaheal, you're gonna have that better life.

I've seen a lot of great successes out of AA
programs and firsthand knowledgeis, it's a tremendous program.
You know, it's not as soughtout as it should be or.
Recognized or even appreciated.
Um, in my opinion, uh, my dad was in NAand aa, uh, you know, before he passed,

(21:27):
he relapsed, but I was proud of him.
20 years clean and sober, so right.

That's fantastic and, and you know, well that AA is just not
about, it's not just about drinkingand not drinking and drugging.
I'm trying to say that right.
AA is not about just not drinkingand drugging teaches you how
to be a part of society again.
How to be happy again.
How to be grateful again.
Um, how to love again, youknow, how to deal with anger.
Finances will begin tofigure themselves out.

(21:54):
You know, all kinds of positiveswill happen from getting yourself
straight and AA can do that.
Um, that's part of our program andthat we are provisioning the license.
License.
At Warriors Heart is substanceuse disorder, so 12 Steps is
definitely a part of our part.

To me, uh, you know, we talked about brotherhood
earlier is it's funny, the AAseeing it as a kid and teenager.
Um, watching my dad in aa, I'venoticed he was retired Coast
Guard, so retired military.
The AA family was more tightly knitthan his military family ever was.

(22:28):
And it was amazing to seehow willing those group of
people are to help their own.
And you know, it's notlike everyone thinks it is.
It's not.
They don't beat you down.
They welcome you with open arms,and you're there as a person.
You're not there as a number.

Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um, can't say enough good thingsabout the, about the AA group
and, and you know, when it comesto work, when it comes to career.
Yeah.
I mean, they're, they'll put auniform in a body in that same
uniform the next day if they need to.
I mean, and you can't fault 'em for it.
Um, the, yeah, I've done it too.

(23:07):
You know, when other guys have moved onquick, got fired or whatever, I. I don't
remember ever talking to him after that.
You know, there we werea work acquaintance, you

Right.

but, but with aa, yeah, there's, I still, I still talk to
people and hang out with people thatI went to rehab with five years ago.
You know,

Exactly, and it makes a great bond as well, you know?
So speaking of your recovery,so what does the first week of
recovery look like in your mind?
Is it messy?
Is it hopeful, or is it both?

the next what of recovery.

The first week,

Oh, the first week of
recovery.
What did it look like for me?
Um, I don't know anybody on this planetthat could say it went really well.
Um, excuse me, I'm coughing a little here.
Um.
I was angry.
Angry, doesn't even begin to describe it.

(24:02):
Um, I had so much pent up, uh, emotion.
Um, plus, uh, I was on a particularantidepressant that contributed to that
Effexor, you know, and when you mix a lotof alcohol and pain pills and everything
with it, it's just a toxic cocktail, man.
I was, and that's.
And that's a lot of the reason whythe wife had to ask me to leave,
you know, because everybody hadto walk on eggshells around me.

(24:25):
I wasn't physically abusive, justverbally abusive, but, you know,
I, I was an unpleasant person.
That's what led to my undoing ina lot of ways in that first week
of I'm having to feel all theseemotions, ah, I don't like this.
Right.
So it was, it was difficult, you know.
Plus, you know, I'm at the beginningstages of a divorce, but I'm

(24:45):
hoping to save it 500 miles awayfrom the people I know and love.
I'm with a whole bunch of people.
I feel like I don'tbelong around, you know?
Uh, so that first week was tricky.
Um, I. I can't, I've heard, uh, thisis the only place I've ever been,
right as far as rehab, but I've heardplenty of stories from lots of people

(25:06):
I know that have been to other places.
And all I can say is,thank God I was there, man.
Thank God I was at Warrior's Heart.
'cause man, if I had been in one of thoseother facilities, it would've got ugly.
I mean, really ugly.
Uh.
It would not have gone well.
But, uh, they loved on me.
They took care of me and peoplekept telling me, welcome home.
At first it pissed me off 'cause I'm like,Hey, I got my, the bank has my house, and

(25:29):
then I got kicked outta somebody else's.
So I I was angry.
I cussed a lot of people out.
There was a lot of people afraid of me.
They called a lot ofcodes while I was there.

I gotcha.
So during your recovery or afterrecovery, what was the first time you
laughed again and actually meant it?

Yeah, there was a lot of times where I did laugh while I
was there at Warrior's Heart, youknow, um, I mean, you know what?
A lot of times, and I reallymeant it, it, what a lot of us
miss is that brotherhood, right?
Whether you're military, EMT,uh, law enforcement, firefighter,
you miss the brotherhood.
You miss the dudes thatyou're around, right?

(26:15):
So.
At first I thought, you know, I don'tbelong here because I was just a cop.
And all these guys are military guys.
But man, they just, theychanged my thinking on that 100%
and the comradery was there.
You know, I was, I got there in August andWarriors Heart Texas has a pool and where
you got a pool, you got pool volleyball.

(26:36):
When you got pool volleyball, you got alot of shit talking with vets and first
responders and a hell of a lot of fun,
you know.

I.

Oh, every single day, man, I came outta there with a really good tan.
Uh, so yeah, we, yeah, I, I laughed a lot.
There was a lot of stuff, uh, to laughat, but at the same time we were doing
some heavy duty mental health workon ourselves, so we needed to laugh,
but you know how we are that darkhumor, we have to laugh as, as often

(27:05):
as we can to ward off those demons.
So yeah, it was, it waswhile I was there, honestly.

I gotcha.
So now you've progressed and now you'reactually the person who answers the
24 hour hotline for Warrior's Heart.
What's the responsibility like that now?

It is a double-edged sword.
You know, on the one hand I'mgrateful to be a part of somebody
else's recovery to be able to, toshow 'em the way, to be able to
help 'em get there, but part of it.
When you're really trying to help somebodyis getting down in that hole with them
and helping them get out of that hole.
And when you get down in that hole,you get a little dirty sometimes.

(27:45):
Not all the calls that we have areeasy, you know, um, there's a lot of
times, uh, just a couple days ago whereMal was on the phone with a suicidal
vet for about an hour and a half.
Uh, so it does getdifficult from time to time.
But we focus on the wins in recovery.
We focus on the wins at Warrior's Heart,we focus on the wins and the ones that

(28:05):
we can help and get 'em into treatment.
It's great.
It's, it's wonderful beingable to help guys out.
'cause when I lost my career, all Iwanted to do was to help guys like us and
say, Hey, there's, there's another way.
But I didn't have anything tooffer at that time 'cause I
hadn't fixed myself yet, so I damnsure couldn't fix anybody else.
So, worked on myself first,and then when I was ready, um.

(28:28):
God sent me here and I'm helpingothers fix themselves and it's,
it's great when you, you helppull somebody outta that fire.
You work with 'em on the phones,you build a relationship with them,
and then they check in and you gomeet 'em at intake and hug their
neck and they cry on your shoulder.
Dude, that is a good feeling.
That is a really good feeling.

That's gotta be the best feeling in the world right there.

It is it, and it's reminiscent of some of the wins that
we had in law enforcement, you know,when we could really help somebody.
But I don't know, it just, itsomehow takes on a different meaning.

Yeah.
So how do you stay grounded after hearingtheir stories that mix with your own?

I've done a lot of work on myself, like I said, first and
foremost, and I've turned a lot of thosestories, those memories from an active
memory into, you know, a stored memory.
The active memories arethe ones that bother us.
That's one of the things that EMDR does.
For example, EMDR is the form of therapy.
I'm sure you're familiar with it,but eye movement, desensitation

(29:32):
reprocessing, I think it is.
Um.
And, you know, I've done a lot of workwith, with healing those wounds where
they're not quite as active, you know,um, but in order to stay grounded,
um, baby is my, my service dog baby.
She is a Warrior's heart dog,and she does have permission

(29:52):
to come in the office with me.
So she's always in the office andshe's always helping out and helping
out the other advocates too, you know?
Um.
And if I need to get up and take awalk, I'll grab her leash and, you
know, get up and take her on a walkaround, you know, the, the field
out there to just kind of de-stress.
And also, you know, I still lovecigars, so I may go out to my truck

(30:14):
and puff on a cigar, you know.
Um, but you know, in, in all, all thetreatment that I've done, we've, we've
learned a lot of those techniques.
Meditation, uh, mindfulness,uh, positive affirmations, um.
Those sorts of things, breathingexercises to help stay grounded
and to relieve the stress.

(30:34):
Do I employ all of 'em all the time?
No.
Uh, I stick with some, you know.
Um, but most importantly, ifit is something like that,
I'll go talk to somebody.
You know, I'll go pull Aaron asideand say, man, that was a rough call.
You know, we'll talk about it.
Or, you know, talk to Ingridor Mike or somebody, uh, you
know, so I'm talking about it.
And that's, that's what helps the most.

I think that's what a lot of people need to
understand as well, is you're not weak.
If you talk, you know you'reweak if you don't talk about it.
If you try to hold it in yourself and itovercomes you, you know, there, there's
no weakness in admitting you need help.
That's one of the biggest thingsthat I took from AA, from my

(31:17):
dad is there's nothing wrongwith admitting you need help.
There's nothing wrong with getting help.
You know, uh, as you said earlier, isthere are people trained better than us in
cognitive functions and all that that canhelp us with, like you said, EMBR, yoga,
you know, and other capacities to be ableto deal with the traumas that we have.

(31:39):
Um, and, and that's what a lot ofour suicides and my personal belief
is, is about, is we don't breakdown enough of the old mindsets.
So if you don't talk about it,you just grow with it, you know?

Right.
And I was a victim of that mindset myself.
You know, I felt like it was weak.
Like I couldn't talk about it.
The people above me with the rank and theexperience, you know, they were stoic.
They didn't talk about that shit.
They just drank it down.
So, you know, we learned from those guys.
Uh.
But, uh, in recovery we dolearn a different lesson.
Like you said, it's,it's not, not weakness.

(32:13):
Ask for help.
It's it's strength.
You know, in law enforcement and, youknow, day One Academy stuff, they tell
you, ain't no long Wolf McQuaid out here.
You know, you're not Walker,Texas Ranger if you need help.
You better call for backup,even if you don't need help yet.
Get somebody started just in case, right?
The, the reason why we don'tdo it is because we can't see

(32:33):
our enemy, but our enemy is us,and that is the toughest enemy.
That demon in our head is thetoughest one that we have ever
battled because it knows our nextmove, it knows all our weaknesses,
knows how to push all of our buttons.
So when you really begin to goafter that demon to fight that
fight, and then you win holy shit,then you know some real strength.
That is real strength.

(32:54):
And anybody that's been onthat side of that fight knows
exactly what I'm talking about.
You will never be stronger than whenyou go to war with that demon and win.
Right?
So it damn sure ain't weakness'cause it's a hell of a fight.
That's why we say, you know,pick up that 8,000 pound phone.
You know, we become a power lifter'cause we don't wanna do it.
You know, it's hard.

(33:14):
But that's when you show real strength.

Yes, sir. So what do people misunderstand about
first responders and addiction?

Hmm.
Interesting.
I don't know, you know, uh, right nowit's not a good time to be a a, a cop.
You know, I'm, I'm saying that toencompass all first responders, but
mainly the cops are the targets right now.
And cops are being vilifiedas, you know, evil people.
And, um, there's a, there's alarge part of the public that

(33:48):
absolutely do not understand.
What we do and see anddeal with, you know?
Um, so I, I think if, you know,we were viewed as alcoholics,
addicts, whatever, then they wouldprobably, you know, support that
or, you know, be in favor of that.
Uh, I don't know how I'mtrying to say it, but, um,

(34:10):
that's a tough question.
I don't know.

I think what you're trying to say, in my opinion
on the, correct me if I'm wrong, butyou're trying to say we are normal
people, just like the regular.
You know, everyday person is, we'renot invincible, we're not heroes.
We are just like everyone else.
Yeah.

Absolutely we're subject to the same faults that everybody
else has, and a lot of statisticshave been coming out here lately.
I've been seeing a lot of posts aboutit where the average American citizen
may see one to two critical incidentsor experience one to two critical
incidents in their, in their entire life.
And in a 30 year career, mostfirst responders will experience
hundreds, you know, and, andit's tough to deal with that.

(34:50):
And.
A lot of us have a habit of,or a lot of people, I should
say, not just first responders.
A lot of people in general, uh,have a habit of numbing out.
Even, even civilians, you know, havea habit of numbing out from the things
that, that, uh, they struggle with.
But you're right, we are just people.
And if you've been in the roomsof aa, you know, this is a disease

(35:10):
that does not discriminate, youknow, from the the average guy, uh,
to presidents, uh, and kings, youknow, all the way up runs the gamut.

Yes, sir. So what keeps you showing
up for the next phone call?
I.

I fear that I'm gonna let somebody down.
You know, um, it's hardto disengage sometimes.
Um, but I have to havehope that there is hope.
I have to be available to otherswhen they, uh, extend their hand.
You know, it's like that AAsaying, um, when the, uh.
I always mess it up.
I'm terrible at quotes, but youknow, I want the, when somebody

(35:53):
needs help, I want the hand of AAto be there, you know what I mean?
And I take that to heart, not justbecause of aa, but also be, you know,
it is part of the job, but even if itwasn't part of the job, I'd still do it.
You know, I'd still beavailable to somebody.
And there's a lot of times when I'mnot at work and I'm still sharing the
message of recovery, I'm still tellingpeople about different programs they
could go to to get some healing.

(36:14):
Because I believe in it andI'm passionate about it.
I know that there's a better way,and I know there's a lot of people.
Out there struggling.
Um, in some ways it's almost likethat religious zealot, right?
And when he gets the Holy Ghost, right,he's gonna tell everybody about it.
Um, I, I'm not quite that bad, uh,but I am gonna keep showing up.
Uh, for those who do need help, I'mgonna do everything I can in that regard.

(36:37):
Now, at some point, you know, we,we have to take care of ourself.
'cause that same mindset when Iworked, uh, juvenile sex crimes,
you know, I can't let anybody down.
I can't miss that next call.
Um.
It, it burned me out a little bit, so the,the correlation here is self-care, right?
Back then I didn't do self-care.
Now I do, so I can continue toshow up for that, that next call.

(36:58):
It's the same thing as a first responder.
You know, you have got to starttaking care of yourself so you
can be of service to others.
You're numbing out if youhave those bad habits.
If you're not going to the gym, ifyou're not doing all the healthy things
that you need, you know, going tocounseling, downloading, you're not gonna
be able to show up for the next call.

We can't help ourselves, we can't help
anyone else till we help ourselves.

Absolutely.

So that brings me next to, to my next question, in
all honesty, is what does hope soundlike when you hear it on the phone?

Tears.
Tears of joy.
Yeah, tears of joy.
You know, there's been, of course Itold you how I did it, you know, when
I called Mike, but there's been timeswhen, you know, somebody was struggling
to find funding 'cause they didn't haveinsurance in the VA was letting them down.
Um.
And I, I was able to help 'em findsome funding and I call 'em up

(37:52):
and say, Hey man, we got it done.
We got it taken care of.
You're coming home.
And the tears of joy, man,that is, that is the best form
of hope you will ever hear.
You know?
And then when they show upand cry, those same tears.
Yeah, that's hope.
That's a lot of hope.

That's phenomenal right there, especially
y'all working it like that to beable to help people that much.
That's, that's tremendous.
That, that's, I, I don't, I don'teven have a word for that, you know?
That's amazing.
So.

We do everything that we can.
You know, if you, if you participatein your own rescue, if you help
us help you, we will do everythingwe possibly can to help you.

That's awesome.
So how did recovery rebuildyour family and your faith?

That took patience.
Right?
And uh, they say, don't ever prayfor patience because God will give
you the opportunity to learn it.
Well, I did.
I did learn it.
I did pray for it, and I did learn it.
And it didn't really clickinitially, but you know, they
kept saying, let go and let God.
I didn't know what that meant.
I kept asking people, keptasking my sponsor people, Hey,

(38:56):
what the hell does that mean?
Like going like, God, right.
Yeah.
I was, I was a faithful man before, andthen when things went downhill, I just
turned my back on the church in general.
So I was having a roughtime with all that.
And you know, like.
Aa, uh, daily meditationsthat are put out.
Uh, Tom will also, Tom Spooner, uh,one of our co-founders will also add

(39:17):
his, you know, statement to that.
And in one of those I read one time,basically said, do the work on yourself
and leave the results up to God.
I'm like, well, holy shit.
So you could've said thatlike a year ago, right?
That would've made more sense.
So I just started focusing on that.
You know, doing the work on myselfand leaving the results up to God.
'cause I can't force it.
You know?
I can't, after a month of sobriety, goback to my family and say, I'm cured.

(39:41):
Love me again.
Right?
Because our words don't mean shit.
It's actions.
So I did the actions, Idid what was required.
I went to meetings, I went to, uh.
Uh, meet with my sponsor.
I did the steps.
I went to other healing programs.
I did a sober living IOP, I dideverything I possibly could, and it
little by little things began to return,you know, as the big book says, you

(40:03):
know, these promises will come true,sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.
Sometimes it takes a little bit of work.
Uh, but I had to continue towork on myself and these things
began to come back around, right?
My children began to, uh, youknow, trust me a little bit
more and be a part of my life.
You know, the wife, uh, sheand I ex-wife now, uh, we're.

(40:24):
Amicable, you know, but we we're stillparting ways, but at least I, you know,
we weren't at each other's throats.
You know, I was able to make amendswith a lot of people and a lot of
those, by the way, a lot of thosepeople that I mentioned that I invited
to my, my going away party that hadghosted me, you know, I was sharing
my story, I was doing a podcast.
A lot of those people came back, you know,

(40:45):
because they were happyto see me doing well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, it was great.
Um.
But you know, life slowly began to return,but when you have such huge failures,
it, it takes a while to trust again.
Right?
So.
We are driven by a thousandforms of fear in our addictions.

(41:06):
And I was scared of everything.
I was scared of failure,scared of getting hurt again.
But it took moving forward little bylittle to rebuild that faith, you know?
And it took a faith in Godto be able to restore that.
And it happened in a dynamic way.
You know, I, again, wassharing my story a little bit.
I reconnected with one of the men from mychurch in Shreveport that I was close to.

(41:30):
Um.
Uh, a little bit before Iwent to treatment, and then
while I was in sober living.
Um, and then I was having a roughmorning out behind the Sober Living
Lodge and just prayed to God, Hey, Ineed to hear something from you, man.
I, I need something, youknow, show me something.
happened.
You know, I'm out walkingbaby, and by the river.
And early in the morning we weregoing to the empty cross in Kerrville,

(41:54):
uh, of all places that morning.
And uh, on the way there, my phonerang and it was Darryl from Trinity
Heights Church in Shreveport callingand saying, man, I don't know what
it was, but when I woke up thismorning, it was like a neon sign in
front of my face saying, call Robert.
Call Robert.
I'm like, all right, God,I guess that'll do right.

(42:15):
So started started working a littlebit harder on the relationship with
God, you know, and you know, that'spart of the AA program as well, a
relationship with your higher power and.
It, it, it began to take shape andto take form all the way to the point
where a couple years later when I'mlooking for that next step, when I'm
looking for purpose again, 'cause Ididn't like what I was doing for work.

(42:38):
Guy kept saying, you need togo work at Warrior's Heart.
No, no, that's not the right path.
I know better than you.
God.
Uh, I wanna stay here close to my kids.
And at that time I was living with mymom and then I moved in with my nephew.
So, you know, I love him to death,but I didn't even have my own place.
Right.
Um.
But yeah, the, you know, goingto work at Warriors Heart as a

(43:00):
missions advocate, I had to talkmyself into it for over a month.
Wore my sponsor out on that too.
Uh, but that was another step, uh, inthat, in that building of faith and
moving forward and conquering thosefears that, that had built up for years.
And then even in relationships,you know, uh, had to.
You know, I mean, dating relationships nowthat I'm divorced and all, and I've been

(43:24):
in a relationship for a while with a greatwoman, you know, but it took a while of,
you know, chopping away at that fear, um,before I could really make any progress.
But that's, you know, that's the thing.
You know, people we'rein instant gratification.
You know, population these days,especially first responders, you know,
we want it right now.
We're gonna ask, we're gonnatell them we're gonna make

(43:45):
God, I'm asking you for this.
I'm telling you I want it.
I'm fixing to make yougive me a better life.
Yeah, it don't work that way, right?
So sometimes it takes a little bitof time, but damnit, if it ain't
worth it, uh, moved over here.
Uh, financially I'm doing better.
Emotionally, I'm doing better.
Mentally, I'm doing better.
And two of the threekids now live with me.

(44:07):
You know, they, they decidedto come over here with me.
Baby girl.
Gabby is still at home with mom, butshe's young she'll, and she comes
over and spends the summers with me.
I mean, how, how much better can it be?

That's awesome.
I'm, I'm so proud of you.
That's awesome.
That

Thank you.
I appreciate
it.

So what does a normal, good day look for you now?

Uh, normal good day is, you know, being able to, to answer those
calls and to help people get in headedin the right direction or to, to make a
difference in somebody's life when they'reat their darkest, uh, to be able to be
positive and be around other people.
To send out my gratitude listto a certain group of folks, you
know, uh, hit a meeting if I can.
Usually that's on Tuesday nights witha local group that, uh, that I go to.

(44:54):
Um.
So just, and, and more, mostimportantly, most importantly is,
is not bringing it home with me.
You know, uh, because there are, likeI said, there are hard days, right?
Uh.
There are still losses.
Unfortunately, you know, we we'rein a life and death battle here.
Not everybody makes it out.

(45:14):
Um, but I used to bring that home with,and it would spill out on my family,
and I've gotten really good at beingable to, uh, leave it at work and
come home with a different attitude.
Um, but that my day looks like that.
Now, on an ideal day, I'll hit thegym before work, work a good day
at the office, uh, come home, hangout with the kids, cook supper,

(45:36):
you know, usual kind of thing.
You know, an ordinary lifethat has never been better.

That's awesome.
So for the responder listeningright now, sitting in their car
with a bottle beside them, whatdo you want them to hear from you?

You are building your own prison.
With that bottle, you arebuilding your own prison.
They kept saying you haveto feel it to heal it.
I hate cliches.
I thought it was stupid,
but damn it, if it wasn't true, right?
If you're numbing out, youare never gonna get past it.
Never.
You're delaying it.
In fact, it's like building a dam.
More and more water is gonna crewe behindthat dam, and when it finally breaks,

(46:16):
man, it's gonna, it's gonna get nasty.
It's gonna get ugly.
That bottle is what's doing it.
You know, we try to escape.
With that bottle, we try to numb outwith it or whatever our substances are.
Um, it just, it, it never helps.
It feels like it does in the moment,but man, there's always hell to pay.

Yes, sir. So what's your best advice for
the friend or a spouse trying toget help but they don't know how?

Uh, man, be honest, right?
If it's the spouse, you know, let'em know, Hey, time for a change.
You know it.
That's what it took withme, you know, unfortunately.
Had, would I have ever gone totreatment or, or anything if, if
the wife hadn't booted me out?
I don't know, probably not,but I took it real serious.
Then be honest with 'em.

(47:04):
Let 'em know, Hey,this, this might happen.
You know, you need to make a change.
Encourage them, but also beloving to 'em and have an answer.
You know, hey, it's, it's one thingto say, Hey, you need to change.
You need to fix yourself.
Another is being able to say, Hey,you need to change, and I think
you need to look at this place.
I think you need to havea look at these people.
Hear what they have to say.

(47:25):
Look at their videos, look at theirdocumentary, and I think you need to go to
this place, you know, have an answer for.
Right.
Um, I talk to people allthe time on the phone.
I talk to spouses allthe time on the phone.
You know, a wife willcall about the husband.
He doesn't know I'm calling.
I want to, uh, present him withan ultimatum that you need to get
help, but I would like to havesome kind of a place for him to go.

(47:47):
So if you are, um.
Of the Warrior class, you know, veteran,first responder, active duty military,
um, veteran of course, cops, firefighters,EMTs, trauma nurses, trauma doctors,
anybody serving on that front lineand you need help, give us a call.
Uh, our phone number is (866) 955-4035.

(48:10):
You can also hit us up online,warriors heart.com/connect.
You know, we, we get a lot of those.
Uh.
Website forms filled out.
We got live chat and we, we have that24 hour, seven days a week hotline.
Give us a call and we'll,we'll get started on it.
But the most important thing isto encourage 'em to make a change,
but also hold 'em accountable.

(48:30):
Let 'em know why theyneed to make a change.
You know, in our world, we don'tthink it's that bad, you know, we
think everything's under control.
We think everything's manageable.
But we find out the hard way thatsometimes that life is definitely
unmanageable, which is the first step,
you know?
And if life is unmanageable for you,then pick up the phone, give us a call.

(48:51):
'cause we can get you back on track.

So one last question then, uh, we'll do the
outro, but how do you handle guiltand rebuilding trust after recovery?

Little by little, the guilt, uh, you'll work on with
your sponsor by working a solid AAprogram, uh, by making amends, uh.
By doing that moral inventory,you also work on it while you're
inpatient, while you're in treatmentwith your counselor, and find new
ways to, to deal with that guilt.
Building trust, again,is little by little.

(49:25):
You can't force it, and you haveto build trust with yourself first.
Right?
Build trust with yourself first.
Fix yourself first.
AA is a program of attraction.
Recovery is a programof attraction, right?
You want to.
Make yourself as attractive to that, thatparty that you have offended, that you

(49:46):
need to rebuild that relationship with.
Attractive from the standpoint ofI'm taking care of business now.
I'm not a mean, angry drunk, you know?
Um, I'm.
Being helpful to people.
I'm, I'm straightening up my act.
That's what brings people back toyou and it takes time to do that,
but you have to do it for you first.
You can't do it for them because ifyou are doing it just to rebuild that

(50:06):
relationship and they say, you know what?
I'm not ready for that.
You may fall apart, but if you're doingit for you, fixing you, then it'll take
time, continue to do the work becauseman, the reward is just, is so beautiful.

Yes, sir. So that was Robert Greer, law Enforcement Veteran
Warrior's, heart Advocate, and Proof thatrock bottom isn't the end of the story.
Robert, one more time.
Where can people reach you orWarrior's Heart if they need help?

Call us at eight six six nine five five four zero three five twenty
four hours a day, seven days a week.
Uh, we'll get started onthe process to help you out.
You can also log onto ourwebsite, warriors heart.com,
uh slash connect, and youcan fill out an online form.
You can fill out a form for yourloved one, for somebody that
you know that needs to get help.

(50:56):
You can let us know.
Hey.
Can you reach out to this guy?
He's struggling.
Uh, we also have a live chat feature.
Um, I think we're doing a little bitof maintenance on it right now, but
you can definitely log onto that aswell and, and get in touch with us.
We'd love to hear from you.
We'd love to help you out.

And before we wrap up, what's one thing you want every
listener to carry into their next shift?

It's excellent question.
That if you're struggling with it,there is a better life out there.
There is a better road.
Take time to take care of yourself.
Let others watch theline for a little while.
Take care of yourself.
Get combat effective again,

Awesome.
Awesome.
Closing words.

Speaker (51:37):
If you think it's too heavy to say, say it anyway.
It beats a eulogy.
You don't have to apologizefor surviving however you can.
You're not the reason things are heavy.
You're the reason they're still moving.
Need support right now.
Reach out to me.
Reach out to somebody.
Text or call 9 8 8 orvisit 9 8 8 lifeline.org.

(51:58):
You're not alone.
Not in this job.
Not in this fight.
Wanna share your story?
Connect.
Visit critical run.com.
Or message the Facebook pagedispatched and dysfunctional.
We're building this for you,for them, for all of us.

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We Can Recover — Robert Greer on Brotherhood, Addiction, and the Fight to Come Home

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.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}We Can Recover — Robert Greer on Brotherhood, Addiction, and the Fight to Come Home