May 17, 2024 • 34 mins
In this episode, we explore the balance between nurture and promotional emails in email marketing. We discuss the importance of varying email content to keep subscribers engaged and outline strategies for effectively mixing nurturing content, which builds trust and rapport, with promotional content that drives sales. Key topics include the use of email segmentation, newsletter banners, and the timing of emails to optimize engagement and conversion. Want us to a cover a specific topic?
Send us an email at femailsacrossthepond@gmail.com and tell us what you'd like to hear. Want more help with your emails? Follow us on Instagram: Angie: https://www.instagram.com/angiemachado_/ Clara: https://www.instagram.com/claratoombsconsulting/ Download Our Free Resources Get instant access to Angie's Free Email Planning Bundle Get Clara's 14 AI Prompts to Help Transform Your Email Game
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to the females across the pond and beyond podcast. Hi, I'm
Clara. Hi, I'm Angie. We're here to share all things
email and beyond. We go through the trials and tribulations of running your own business,
being your own boss, and sending your own email marketing.
As email marketing experts, we're dedicated to helping small businesses
thrive so they can have more freedom in their business. Ready to get
(00:27):
started? Let's dive into the episode.
Hello and welcome to today's episode. So today we're going to
be talking about nurture emails versus promo
emails. But before we do, let's
(00:48):
just check in with Angie to see how she's doing. How are you? Oh, my
gosh, I'm doing so good. Life is super busy right now.
You know, I've got the two kiddos we just did.
We're getting ready to go into kindergarten this year, which is crazy
for my five year old. And
(01:08):
the business is doing well. I've got a lot of people reaching out
for flows. Flows are the hot commodity right
now, I guess, for my clients, which rightfully so. I
mean, flows can bring in
that passive revenue for you. Right. So, I don't know.
Everything is going fine. What about you? Yeah, that sounds
(01:30):
good for me. Yeah, really busy, too.
I am working on my course, which will be launched later
this year, so I'm really excited about that.
And so, yeah, just putting all of that together
and also doing some interesting stuff for clients
as well as my own business as well. I've been doing a lot more on
(01:53):
LinkedIn and trying to work out LinkedIn.
Yeah, it can be a funny place, can't it?
Yeah, LinkedIn, honestly can be kind of
intimidating. Right. I mean, very corporate y, but
for you, you know, like, if your ideal client is on LinkedIn,
then that's where you should be, right? Absolutely.
(02:16):
Absolutely. I think it's all about spending time where your ideal client
is and. Yeah, I'm just playing around with LinkedIn at the moment, just
seeing, you know, experimenting. I think you have to. Right. You have to
try different things. And I've had people reach out to me, so
that's good. Good. Did you end up taking any sort of
program or, like, getting any type of learning on
(02:39):
LinkedIn? Because I know that there's a lot of people now that are popping up
that are doing, like, you know, LinkedIn courses or
programs or, you know, helping people to promote on
LinkedIn. Yeah, there's quite a few, actually. I went on a
conference a couple of weeks ago all dedicated
to LinkedIn, and there's quite a few experts
(03:00):
that were there that were sharing hot tips. I
really like LinkedIn with Louise Brogan. She's very good.
She talks about how to launch a LinkedIn newsletter,
which I haven't done yet. Can you believe I haven't done that yet? Have
you? With all of the time on your plate? What are you talking about?
(03:21):
No, I have not. I thought about going LinkedIn when
I was first thinking about focusing
on, I guess,
larger corporations or bigger corporations, I guess,
for contracting. But since I've kind of
narrowed in on maybe just, like, smaller
(03:42):
businesses, I kind of let the whole
LinkedIn thing go, which is. Which is fine for me because I don't
know. Like I said, I do, like, correlate LinkedIn with corporate
America. And I still have a little.
I still have a little, like, of being, like, in a corporate
America setting and having to be formal. But I know that LinkedIn,
(04:05):
they're trying to break barriers so that you don't have to be so formal and
you be yourself. And I think that's incredible. I can't get over that
mindset right now. I hear you. It does still feel like the
corporate world's being, you know, within the
LinkedIn arena. It does feel more corporate y,
but also I feel like I've just had to push past that
(04:26):
because I feel the same.
But I want to start attracting more of my ideal client
on there, and I've started to create my list and remove
people I don't feel are, you know, maybe from my past
that are no longer perhaps, you know, as
relevant to my future. So, yeah, I hear you
(04:48):
about LinkedIn. I hear you about LinkedIn. It's all about
connections on LinkedIn. Right. It's all about, like, adding
people. And I know that it's more, I mean, it's
kind of like Instagram that way, where you can just follow whoever or whatever, but,
like, you both have to connect with each other, so.
Absolutely. Yeah. And on the theme of
(05:11):
connections, let's talk. Let's dive into the podcast today.
So we're talking about nurture emails versus promo emails.
And this is a really exciting one, actually, because both Angie and I
work and do a lot of work in the space of both of these
types of emails. But we want to break down,
give you a bit more of an overview of what they both are, the roles
(05:33):
that they both play, and just the balance
between the two in terms of when is it the right time to send a
nurture email versus a promo email. So,
yeah, lots of content ideas here and lots of
tips that we can give you. So let's dive in.
So, yeah, let's start with the difference between
(05:54):
nurture versus promo emails. Well, first of all, what
is a nurture email? Do you want to have a go at this one,
Nanji? Yeah, sure, I'll try, but
you can certainly help me. I mean, as far as I
like, in my personal view, nurture emails to me
are always about establishing a connection and sort
(06:17):
of like a customer first approach as
you're creating an email, meaning that you want
the. Your goal is for the subscriber to get to know
you, to like you and to trust you.
So it's more about, yeah, establishing that connection
and getting them into your sphere a little bit, but also making
(06:39):
sure it is customer focused. So you're focusing
on, how does this benefit the customer? Why should the customer
know about this stuff? You know, how does this help them so, you know,
giving value, helping them with tips, giving them some background,
context into your business. There's just
a plethora of content out there, nurture
(07:02):
content out there that we, that you can use.
And, yeah, it's really just all about, you know,
making sure that the link between you two is, is strong. What do
you think, Clara? Yeah, I totally agree. I think, you know, let's
like, if we were to take some steps backwards and say, right,
so what has the client or customer done? They've
(07:24):
signed up to receive your newsletters, your content,
but as Angie says, they don't know you that well yet. So
we want to start building that trust. And a great way to do that is
through nurture emails. And usually these are flows, they don't have to
be, but this is about
sharing ways in which you can support your
(07:47):
ideal client through a nurture sequence and
building that trust, building that rapport. Because
remember, not everyone's going to know you in great detail,
particularly if they're landing on your website for the first time or on your
social media. So this is a great opportunity to
tell them about yourselves. And also
(08:09):
we can look at how we can drive value and
deliver great content to them that's going to really help
them. So, you know, some ways that we might want to think
about effective nurture emails would be, you know, what have we
collected about them already that we can play back to them? So a really
simple one is, you know, we already know their name, we can
(08:31):
pull that in to make them feel, you know, more special.
But what else have we collected along the way? I mean, if you're
just doing a simple onboarding, it might be that you don't know very much about
them and this is the opportunity to find out more.
So think about the value that you can deliver through your nurture
emails. Remember, you're sharing your
(08:55):
expertise, but also you're providing a solution to them and
showing how you've helped others through a
nurture sequence. And then timing and frequency is key.
Right. We don't want to nurture someone six months after
they've signed up for piece of content from
us. We want it to be fairly immediate.
(09:18):
It's important. Right. We want to stay in touch and build that
connection. And we were
just talking about some popular trending nurture emails.
So, Angie, do you want to share some thoughts around this? What's really popular
right now? Oh, yeah. I mean, so I have a lot of
clients who are in the e commerce space and
(09:41):
what's really been hitting off is leaning more into
what service providers do, which is like those letter
style emails, more storytelling, a little bit longer
form storytelling and letters from the
CEO or letters from somebody within your
organization that you can kind
(10:03):
of get them get to know. So
that's really what's been working in the e commerce space, is
leaning more into these letter style emails
about what's going on in our business. I had a client the other day
who sent a very relevant email, a very timely
email to her subscribers about a huge
(10:25):
mistake that she made on her farm
this time last year. And she knew that
some of her subscribers are probably experiencing the same thing and wanted to
make them feel better about it. So those types of emails that really let
people in on what's really going on behind the scenes
and also that we are humans and we make mistakes
(10:47):
and we have likes and we have dislikes and we do things this
way and that way. And I think those types of emails that
also are also a little bit more vulnerable or a little bit, you know, peel
back the layers a little bit, really do well
with our audiences. But, you know, that
all depends on how you feel, you know, in writing your emails as
(11:10):
a business owner, how much you want to let people in, you know, totally up
to you. But I do see that working really, really well.
I love that. I think showing any kind of human side to
you and your business is these things always work
really well. Like, yeah, you said here, mistakes you've
made. Remember, with nurture emails, the
(11:32):
real key thing we want you to realize with, with nurture emails
is that it's not about overt selling. We're not going to put
massive discounts over your nurture emails.
We are, think of it as meeting someone for the
first time and getting to know them. We want
this as a space to get to know them and a space to get to
(11:54):
know you. So think of it that way. What would you say in those
first few moments? And then maybe a follow up meeting.
So nurturing is important
to build that relationship and it has its role and
in fact, it's very important to build up that trust.
(12:14):
But when it comes to promotional emails, how are they different?
So we want to share the differences between the two because
sometimes people get these muddled up and
think they might be even the same thing, but actually they're very different.
So for promotional emails, it's really
about your commercial objectives. So
(12:36):
as a service provider, you're wanting
to get someone to jump on a discovery call with you
or to sell a course or your program.
It's delivering your commercial objectives. So
ultimately sales. So we're trying to get someone
to buy from you. And if you're a product based business, it might
(12:57):
be that you have a flash sale, it might be you have a special
seasonal offer. This is very overtly
commercial and therefore we consider these as promotional
emails. And they have a place. Right? They have a place,
yeah. You got to make the money you've got. That's why we have the
list. Exactly, exactly. You got to sell
(13:20):
too. Yeah. So these are the types of emails
to think about, you know, as a service provider, what sometimes
can happen is, and we'll come on more onto this in a
moment, but the balance is slightly weighted towards more maybe
nurture emails or promotional.
And, you know, if you've got a really strong promotional email,
(13:42):
you can do really well. Right, angie? Like certain times of year as
well, seasonal offers, you know, this you
can do so, so well. Yeah, I think also taking
advantage of anything that's like trending, like
currently, you know, as you are creating this email or as you are
sending the email, you know, think of what's going on in pop culture
(14:04):
or whatever. Of course, it has to be in line with your
brand, right. It has to be in line with your brand, the subjects and
things that your brand would be interested in. Like if you're
a sustainable brand, then, you know, of course, like Earth Day or any
sustainability holidays or even things that are
going on in the world, you know, you can
(14:26):
send emails on
to kind of capitalize on what's going on and what your ideal
audience is also paying attention to. So
kind of, we see a lot of success.
Like when the Barbie movie came out, you saw a lot of
(14:46):
promotional emails around pink or the Barbie movie and things
like that. Maybe that's kind of an obvious one, but it's because those things
work and it tells the, it tells your ideal audience
that you're relevant, you're staying in touch with what's going on and you're in touch
with the things that they like too, which is very important.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think thinking about,
(15:09):
like, what your ideal client is or what
is around them at the moment in terms of what, you know, what other things
are they being exposed to that you could bring into your promotional emails to make
them stand out? I mean, often with promotional emails they're actually
a lot more to the point. You know, in some cases,
in some retail brands just simply
(15:31):
have, like the offer, 20% off.
Exactly like, it's straight to the point. There's nothing else to say.
And the goal of that email is to get you to visit the
website and use the discount code or take up the offer.
So, you know, in terms of the, how to get the
right content for promotional emails, think of it as being really
(15:54):
direct, straight to the point. And this applies to service providers as
well. If you have a special offer on, you can get
straight to the point with what that is. Feel free to
use images. But ultimately people want to know, what is your
offer? Yeah. You know, because the whole
idea is that apart from these promotional
(16:16):
emails, you've been sending nurture emails, you know, you've been
establishing that connection. So as long as you have done your due
diligence in welcoming these people into your sphere,
establishing this connection, getting them to know, like and trust you, then
the idea is when you send them that email that's like 20%
off, they're ready to buy. Because that's the whole point. We're
(16:38):
trying to get them to come down the funnel with our nurture emails so that
they're interested in our products and they are ready to make a
purchase. Absolutely. And, and
that leads us on to, well, when is the right time to send a
promotional email versus a nurture type email? Because
I think a lot of people get stuck on this. They tend to either stay
(17:01):
in the nurture space where they feel safe,
maybe around sharing about who they are, how
they can help other people. Maybe it's more of a kind of
gentle approach or you might
find that you're in the other camp where you're just sending promotional
emails and you're hammering your base really hard with
(17:23):
offer after offer after offering. And actually
we suggest that you try and find the right balance with your
audience and reflect on what you've been
doing so far. Are you sending too many nurture emails? And be honest with yourself,
because it can be quite
surprising to think, actually I am sending just nurture emails.
(17:46):
And this is then linked to, like, you know, the sales you're
making from your email list. Are you talking enough
about the promotional aspects of your business in
email? You know, have you got the balance right? And I think, you know, both
Angie and I, these are the kind of questions that do come
up and it's a great question that we ask is, well,
(18:07):
how many nurture emails are you sending versus promotional?
What are your thoughts, Angie? No, you're 100%
right. I think I find with most business owners that I'm working with
and even myself, like, I get caught up in this,
that I have one type of email that I'm really comfortable with
making and sending, and then I just kind of get into a groove of kind
(18:30):
of sending the same type of email. And
I think what I've found as a contractor working in all
of these different audiences is that
people love variety. Like, who
buys from an email list? An engaged list buys.
How do people keep engaged with your content? Well, you're switching up the
(18:52):
content. You know, you're giving them value and then sometimes you're sending a
promo, and then sometimes you're giving them a behind the scenes look. So
actually having the mix is what keeps people engaged,
people excited to receive your emails because you're sending them all
this different types of content that hopefully it's speaking
to, you know, what they want to learn about, what they want to hear about.
(19:13):
And then also once in a while, giving them a discount, giving them,
you know, a free gift or, or, um,
you know, whatever it is for you and your promotion. So I
think that's why it is really important to switch it up. If you feel like
you've been, oh, maybe I have been sending, you know, something, try something
new, you know, switch it up a bit, you know, give your
(19:35):
audience a little jolt in the inbox. They'll like it. Oh, I like
that jolt. I think that's such a good point. Right? You could get
stuck in sending one type of email
and you're getting nowhere with your sales. So. Or it might be
that people are buying from you, but over time that's declining and you don't
know why. Yeah, that's exactly, I mean, because why do, why do
(19:58):
businesses get stuck in the promo after promo after promo Facebook? Because
promo emails are going to generate the most revenue for you. You know, people
are going to jump on that 20% off discount. So they're like,
oh, I want to send another one next week, and I want to send another
one next week. But what happens after time is,
again, you're not switching it up. So they know it's coming and
(20:20):
it's not special anymore. It's
predictable and so it kind of loses its luster.
Yeah, I mean, I worked in fashion and I remember when
promotional offers came up, it was like a drug, like you get
this short term boost, but then your margins are
affected. You know, I'm talking slightly bigger businesses here, but this is,
(20:42):
this applies to any business, right? If you constantly are on
sale, does that align with your brand? Does that align with the
vision you have for your business? Do you constantly want to be
on, you know, on promotional offers all the time?
Think about how you could get the balance right.
So if you're listening to this podcast now and you're thinking, actually, I
(21:05):
sit in the promotional space where I'm just constantly
selling, it's not too late to turn things around. And
what you can do is start to switch
it up, as Angie says, and try nurture type emails.
So think about how you can switch from being
all about the promotion to all about nurturing your audience.
(21:27):
So take a different approach. How might you get to know
them better? What do you know about
them that you can start to pull into the emails? What stories can you share
with them that aren't just about pushing
promotional emails on them?
It's really getting the balance right, isn't it, Angie? Because some people find that
(21:49):
they are the other side where they're just purely about
nurturing them. So what would you say to them? Oh, my goodness. Yeah, I
would say, I mean, bless you. I mean, because I'm
the same. Like, I just want to give my audience so much value. I want
to give my subscribers so much. And I think a lot of us service providers
are like, we don't want to be just another email in the inbox. We don't
(22:11):
want to bother people. You know, we want to give like, all this value. We
want to really help people. But at the end of the day, like,
our email marketing is, list is an asset to
generate revenue for our business. And the way that we generate
revenue through our email list is by asking for the sale
is by informing our audience that, hey, I have
(22:33):
this offer available and you might not know it. I think it's
also we need to stop assuming that our audience
knows about all of our offers or knows about our
programs and knows the ins and outs of them. They do not know.
They don't. They really don't know anything. And
you can't guarantee that they know anything. Even if you're showing up on social
(22:55):
media, you know, because of the algorithm, you don't know if they're
seeing your content or not. So you need to
inform them, you know, if people are reaching out to you and being like, oh,
how do I work with you? That might be a good indication that you need
to send an email. How to work with me? You know, it could just be
that simple, right? So start throwing in a little
(23:16):
sales. I don't have to do it all the time. You know, maybe once in
a while, especially when you need a little bit of business. Just try it
out and see how it goes for
you. They're on your email list. They know you're going to sell
them, so might as well just try it.
Absolutely. And we want to talk about as well, within
(23:38):
this balance, like how to get the balance right is also about
the importance of segmentation and targeting. So what do
we mean by that? Well, let's say there are, well,
there are different ways that people join your list. It could be that they
are interested in something specific, like your lead magnet.
It could be that they have signed up for an event that you might
(24:00):
be running. It could be that they've signed up for a special offer.
So depending on what people have signed up for, you can
decide whether you send them promotional
emails or nurture. But regardless of what
you decide to do, just make sure you are giving
each segment the right balance. So going back to
(24:22):
why did they sign up to receive content from you? What was
the goal for them? If it is just to get the offer,
then they might be more inclined to want to receive
promotional emails. But don't give them 100% promotional emails
because it will put them off when
it comes to segmentation here. And you might have different audiences. Think about
(24:45):
the reason why they've joined your list and how you might be able to
support them. But regardless, also think about where they are
in your customer journey. So, for example, if they're quite new to
your business, to your brand, they might need some more nurturing
because they still don't know you. They don't necessarily
have enough information about you to decide that
(25:08):
they can trust you. And this is completely normal. Right? I
mean, we use these nurture emails as a great way
to help someone get to know who we are.
Yeah. And I know for service providers, you
know, tapping into your customers
or your past clients, you know, that's a really easy way
(25:31):
to, if you, if you need to fill some spots or generate some
revenue quickly for one of your offers,
you know, tapping, creating a segment of, you know, people who've
bought from you before and then sending them a new offer or sending them like
some information about something has always been a really great way
for service providers to kind of make a sale quickly.
(25:53):
So definitely utilize that another segment to utilize. Well,
yeah, 100%. And also, you know, there's the other option of
actually bringing the two together for your newsletter. So you
might have, yeah, you might have one scenario where
you are nurturing them in your newsletter, but then you have a promo
banner for a special offer. So there's
(26:17):
nothing wrong in doing this. In fact, it's quite common and a lot
of people do it. Just make it really clear about, you know,
ultimately what's the priority goal for this email? Is it to
nurture my audience or is it to,
is it to promote my offer? And that will determine the
ordering of your email. So for example, if the primary
(26:38):
goal is to promote your special offer, put that at the
top. If it's about nurturing, then make it all about
nurturing with a secondary
content block that is about your offer. So you can bring the two
together. You can bring the two together and. You can even weave
in, like if you're doing a nurture email and say it's a letter
(27:00):
style email where you're telling a story about, you know, something that's going on
in your business, you can weave in your
products or your offers as you're telling the story just by
linking, you know, whenever you mention like something that
like, makes sense and, you know, that's also a great way to, to deliver
nurture. But if, because a lot of times what I find
(27:23):
is that nurture emails do prompt sales
for my clients because it's like people are like, oh yeah,
that's a great idea. If you're giving them tips or something like that. Or like,
oh yeah, I want to try that. How can try that? How can I take
it a step further? So if you just like naturally like link
in for those people that maybe are interested
(27:44):
in next steps, you know, that's a great way also that you could, you know,
flip a nurture email when the intention is
nurture email, which is totally cool as well. Yeah, and
you've made a really good point, Angie, that we haven't covered, which is
just around the whole idea of nurture and
promo being on different ends of the spectrum. Nurturing
(28:07):
emails are building up to the sale. So
think of it as stepping stones. Remember I said earlier
someone may have signed up to your list, but they don't necessarily know anything
about you yet. So think of maybe
walking up a staircase. People need to take certain steps before
they buy your product. Book a call with
(28:29):
you. And so those nurture emails are steps
towards booking a call, ultimately the
sale with you. And it might take some people, I've had someone
on my list for over a year and it's taken them that
long and that's typical, actually for some people that
it can take them a while. Others, they see you straight away and
(28:51):
they're in. So some people, everyone's
different in terms of how long they need to be nurtured.
But think of your nurturing email as supporting
your promotional efforts. But without
promotional emails do have that instant short term
(29:13):
gratification. You get that instant sale and that's great.
But the nurture type emails are the longer
term strategy towards more sales in the future. So they work
well together, but they also have their individual roles to play.
Right. That makes sense, right? No, it does make sense because,
you know, we don't want someone to just buy from us once. We want them
(29:36):
to come back time and time again and they're going to come
back if they have a strong connection with you. They're going to come back if
they really, really like your brand, if they believe in the same things that you
believe in, if they trust you, if they've had a good experience
with you. And that's the type of content that your nurture emails deliver. So
it ensures more long term success
(29:58):
for you and your business. It really does. It really
does. So just to kind of
recap, really the balance between your nurture and promotional
emails, take a look at how you're currently doing it today
and actually start to look at some of the emails you receive from
other businesses and spot whether you can tell if it's a
(30:21):
nurture email or a promotional email. You'll
find actually some brands are just purely promotional and it's going to be
obvious to you which ones they're going to have. High turnover.
Yeah. High unsubscribe rates as well.
Yeah. And then on the other side you'll see those that are nurturing
(30:42):
and you'll see how they nurture. So that's a good one, just to
see how others and do that within the inbox.
So, yeah, we've talked about the difference between promotional and nurture. We've
talked about getting the balance right. We've talked
about how to bring them together for your
newsletter. We've talked about some trending
(31:05):
nurture emails and trending promotional emails, what's popular
right now and actually how to
address the, when
it's at the right time to use a nurture email over a promotional email.
So in effect, we want you to think
about your own balance and look at how can you
(31:28):
address the imbalance that you might have. And we'd love
to hear how you get on with perhaps introducing more
promo emails into the mix. You know, mix it up a bit.
Maybe. Maybe your audience are
waiting for you to bring an offer out and
naturally they're just waiting for that next email
(31:49):
from you. So if you're feeling like, nervous
about doing it, we say just try it and see.
Because if you've been nurturing for a
while, green light, you know, send a sale email, you know,
there's, to me like, there's really nothing.
There's no consequences. I mean, sure, you might get some unsubscribes, but we're
(32:12):
going to get unsubscribed from every email that we sent, right.
So just give it a go because you've been
nurturing, you've been giving them value. So
I feel like it's a good reason to give it a go.
Absolutely. And one of the things that I want to leave you with
on this as we start to wrap up is
(32:33):
sometimes this imbalance where you're sending
too many promotional emails or too many nurture emails is the
one thing that is holding back
some businesses from making a success
of their email marketing. I gave some feedback to
a client a few months ago. I asked them the question about
(32:55):
the balance. They realized that they were sending too many promo
emails and not enough nurturing. They readdressed and it
changed the sales that
they started to make from their list. So it can be something as simple
as this and we really encourage you to look at it
and let us know if you have any questions. We'd love to hear from
(33:17):
you. How did you get on with
reflecting on where you're up to, what you'd like to do differently,
and how that first promo email went or the first nurture email?
We want to hear from you, but thank you so much for
listening. That's everything we have for today. We look
forward to hearing you and speaking to you at the next
(33:40):
episode. And thank you so much. Thanks, Angie.
Thank you. We'll see you guys next time. Take care.
You've just listened to females across the pond and beyond podcasts with your
hosts, Clara and Angie. If you like our content, don't
forget to subscribe, rate and review us on the platform of your
(34:00):
choice. Is there something you want to hear about for our next
episode? Email
us@femalesacrossthepondmail.com to let us
know. Until next time.
Welcome to the females across the pond and beyond podcast. Hi, I'm
Clara. Hi, I'm Angie. We're here to share all things
email and beyond. We go through the trials and tribulations of running your own business,
being your own boss, and sending your own email marketing.
As email marketing experts, we're dedicated to helping small businesses
thrive so they can have more freedom in their business. Ready to get
(00:27):
started? Let's dive into the episode.
Hello and welcome to today's episode. So today we're going to
be talking about nurture emails versus promo
emails. But before we do, let's
(00:48):
just check in with Angie to see how she's doing. How are you? Oh, my
gosh, I'm doing so good. Life is super busy right now.
You know, I've got the two kiddos we just did.
We're getting ready to go into kindergarten this year, which is crazy
for my five year old. And
(01:08):
the business is doing well. I've got a lot of people reaching out
for flows. Flows are the hot commodity right
now, I guess, for my clients, which rightfully so. I
mean, flows can bring in
that passive revenue for you. Right. So, I don't know.
Everything is going fine. What about you? Yeah, that sounds
(01:30):
good for me. Yeah, really busy, too.
I am working on my course, which will be launched later
this year, so I'm really excited about that.
And so, yeah, just putting all of that together
and also doing some interesting stuff for clients
as well as my own business as well. I've been doing a lot more on
(01:53):
LinkedIn and trying to work out LinkedIn.
Yeah, it can be a funny place, can't it?
Yeah, LinkedIn, honestly can be kind of
intimidating. Right. I mean, very corporate y, but
for you, you know, like, if your ideal client is on LinkedIn,
then that's where you should be, right? Absolutely.
(02:16):
Absolutely. I think it's all about spending time where your ideal client
is and. Yeah, I'm just playing around with LinkedIn at the moment, just
seeing, you know, experimenting. I think you have to. Right. You have to
try different things. And I've had people reach out to me, so
that's good. Good. Did you end up taking any sort of
program or, like, getting any type of learning on
(02:39):
LinkedIn? Because I know that there's a lot of people now that are popping up
that are doing, like, you know, LinkedIn courses or
programs or, you know, helping people to promote on
LinkedIn. Yeah, there's quite a few, actually. I went on a
conference a couple of weeks ago all dedicated
to LinkedIn, and there's quite a few experts
(03:00):
that were there that were sharing hot tips. I
really like LinkedIn with Louise Brogan. She's very good.
She talks about how to launch a LinkedIn newsletter,
which I haven't done yet. Can you believe I haven't done that yet? Have
you? With all of the time on your plate? What are you talking about?
(03:21):
No, I have not. I thought about going LinkedIn when
I was first thinking about focusing
on, I guess,
larger corporations or bigger corporations, I guess,
for contracting. But since I've kind of
narrowed in on maybe just, like, smaller
(03:42):
businesses, I kind of let the whole
LinkedIn thing go, which is. Which is fine for me because I don't
know. Like I said, I do, like, correlate LinkedIn with corporate
America. And I still have a little.
I still have a little, like, of being, like, in a corporate
America setting and having to be formal. But I know that LinkedIn,
(04:05):
they're trying to break barriers so that you don't have to be so formal and
you be yourself. And I think that's incredible. I can't get over that
mindset right now. I hear you. It does still feel like the
corporate world's being, you know, within the
LinkedIn arena. It does feel more corporate y,
but also I feel like I've just had to push past that
(04:26):
because I feel the same.
But I want to start attracting more of my ideal client
on there, and I've started to create my list and remove
people I don't feel are, you know, maybe from my past
that are no longer perhaps, you know, as
relevant to my future. So, yeah, I hear you
(04:48):
about LinkedIn. I hear you about LinkedIn. It's all about
connections on LinkedIn. Right. It's all about, like, adding
people. And I know that it's more, I mean, it's
kind of like Instagram that way, where you can just follow whoever or whatever, but,
like, you both have to connect with each other, so.
Absolutely. Yeah. And on the theme of
(05:11):
connections, let's talk. Let's dive into the podcast today.
So we're talking about nurture emails versus promo emails.
And this is a really exciting one, actually, because both Angie and I
work and do a lot of work in the space of both of these
types of emails. But we want to break down,
give you a bit more of an overview of what they both are, the roles
(05:33):
that they both play, and just the balance
between the two in terms of when is it the right time to send a
nurture email versus a promo email. So,
yeah, lots of content ideas here and lots of
tips that we can give you. So let's dive in.
So, yeah, let's start with the difference between
(05:54):
nurture versus promo emails. Well, first of all, what
is a nurture email? Do you want to have a go at this one,
Nanji? Yeah, sure, I'll try, but
you can certainly help me. I mean, as far as I
like, in my personal view, nurture emails to me
are always about establishing a connection and sort
(06:17):
of like a customer first approach as
you're creating an email, meaning that you want
the. Your goal is for the subscriber to get to know
you, to like you and to trust you.
So it's more about, yeah, establishing that connection
and getting them into your sphere a little bit, but also making
(06:39):
sure it is customer focused. So you're focusing
on, how does this benefit the customer? Why should the customer
know about this stuff? You know, how does this help them so, you know,
giving value, helping them with tips, giving them some background,
context into your business. There's just
a plethora of content out there, nurture
(07:02):
content out there that we, that you can use.
And, yeah, it's really just all about, you know,
making sure that the link between you two is, is strong. What do
you think, Clara? Yeah, I totally agree. I think, you know, let's
like, if we were to take some steps backwards and say, right,
so what has the client or customer done? They've
(07:24):
signed up to receive your newsletters, your content,
but as Angie says, they don't know you that well yet. So
we want to start building that trust. And a great way to do that is
through nurture emails. And usually these are flows, they don't have to
be, but this is about
sharing ways in which you can support your
(07:47):
ideal client through a nurture sequence and
building that trust, building that rapport. Because
remember, not everyone's going to know you in great detail,
particularly if they're landing on your website for the first time or on your
social media. So this is a great opportunity to
tell them about yourselves. And also
(08:09):
we can look at how we can drive value and
deliver great content to them that's going to really help
them. So, you know, some ways that we might want to think
about effective nurture emails would be, you know, what have we
collected about them already that we can play back to them? So a really
simple one is, you know, we already know their name, we can
(08:31):
pull that in to make them feel, you know, more special.
But what else have we collected along the way? I mean, if you're
just doing a simple onboarding, it might be that you don't know very much about
them and this is the opportunity to find out more.
So think about the value that you can deliver through your nurture
emails. Remember, you're sharing your
(08:55):
expertise, but also you're providing a solution to them and
showing how you've helped others through a
nurture sequence. And then timing and frequency is key.
Right. We don't want to nurture someone six months after
they've signed up for piece of content from
us. We want it to be fairly immediate.
(09:18):
It's important. Right. We want to stay in touch and build that
connection. And we were
just talking about some popular trending nurture emails.
So, Angie, do you want to share some thoughts around this? What's really popular
right now? Oh, yeah. I mean, so I have a lot of
clients who are in the e commerce space and
(09:41):
what's really been hitting off is leaning more into
what service providers do, which is like those letter
style emails, more storytelling, a little bit longer
form storytelling and letters from the
CEO or letters from somebody within your
organization that you can kind
(10:03):
of get them get to know. So
that's really what's been working in the e commerce space, is
leaning more into these letter style emails
about what's going on in our business. I had a client the other day
who sent a very relevant email, a very timely
email to her subscribers about a huge
(10:25):
mistake that she made on her farm
this time last year. And she knew that
some of her subscribers are probably experiencing the same thing and wanted to
make them feel better about it. So those types of emails that really let
people in on what's really going on behind the scenes
and also that we are humans and we make mistakes
(10:47):
and we have likes and we have dislikes and we do things this
way and that way. And I think those types of emails that
also are also a little bit more vulnerable or a little bit, you know, peel
back the layers a little bit, really do well
with our audiences. But, you know, that
all depends on how you feel, you know, in writing your emails as
(11:10):
a business owner, how much you want to let people in, you know, totally up
to you. But I do see that working really, really well.
I love that. I think showing any kind of human side to
you and your business is these things always work
really well. Like, yeah, you said here, mistakes you've
made. Remember, with nurture emails, the
(11:32):
real key thing we want you to realize with, with nurture emails
is that it's not about overt selling. We're not going to put
massive discounts over your nurture emails.
We are, think of it as meeting someone for the
first time and getting to know them. We want
this as a space to get to know them and a space to get to
(11:54):
know you. So think of it that way. What would you say in those
first few moments? And then maybe a follow up meeting.
So nurturing is important
to build that relationship and it has its role and
in fact, it's very important to build up that trust.
(12:14):
But when it comes to promotional emails, how are they different?
So we want to share the differences between the two because
sometimes people get these muddled up and
think they might be even the same thing, but actually they're very different.
So for promotional emails, it's really
about your commercial objectives. So
(12:36):
as a service provider, you're wanting
to get someone to jump on a discovery call with you
or to sell a course or your program.
It's delivering your commercial objectives. So
ultimately sales. So we're trying to get someone
to buy from you. And if you're a product based business, it might
(12:57):
be that you have a flash sale, it might be you have a special
seasonal offer. This is very overtly
commercial and therefore we consider these as promotional
emails. And they have a place. Right? They have a place,
yeah. You got to make the money you've got. That's why we have the
list. Exactly, exactly. You got to sell
(13:20):
too. Yeah. So these are the types of emails
to think about, you know, as a service provider, what sometimes
can happen is, and we'll come on more onto this in a
moment, but the balance is slightly weighted towards more maybe
nurture emails or promotional.
And, you know, if you've got a really strong promotional email,
(13:42):
you can do really well. Right, angie? Like certain times of year as
well, seasonal offers, you know, this you
can do so, so well. Yeah, I think also taking
advantage of anything that's like trending, like
currently, you know, as you are creating this email or as you are
sending the email, you know, think of what's going on in pop culture
(14:04):
or whatever. Of course, it has to be in line with your
brand, right. It has to be in line with your brand, the subjects and
things that your brand would be interested in. Like if you're
a sustainable brand, then, you know, of course, like Earth Day or any
sustainability holidays or even things that are
going on in the world, you know, you can
(14:26):
send emails on
to kind of capitalize on what's going on and what your ideal
audience is also paying attention to. So
kind of, we see a lot of success.
Like when the Barbie movie came out, you saw a lot of
(14:46):
promotional emails around pink or the Barbie movie and things
like that. Maybe that's kind of an obvious one, but it's because those things
work and it tells the, it tells your ideal audience
that you're relevant, you're staying in touch with what's going on and you're in touch
with the things that they like too, which is very important.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think thinking about,
(15:09):
like, what your ideal client is or what
is around them at the moment in terms of what, you know, what other things
are they being exposed to that you could bring into your promotional emails to make
them stand out? I mean, often with promotional emails they're actually
a lot more to the point. You know, in some cases,
in some retail brands just simply
(15:31):
have, like the offer, 20% off.
Exactly like, it's straight to the point. There's nothing else to say.
And the goal of that email is to get you to visit the
website and use the discount code or take up the offer.
So, you know, in terms of the, how to get the
right content for promotional emails, think of it as being really
(15:54):
direct, straight to the point. And this applies to service providers as
well. If you have a special offer on, you can get
straight to the point with what that is. Feel free to
use images. But ultimately people want to know, what is your
offer? Yeah. You know, because the whole
idea is that apart from these promotional
(16:16):
emails, you've been sending nurture emails, you know, you've been
establishing that connection. So as long as you have done your due
diligence in welcoming these people into your sphere,
establishing this connection, getting them to know, like and trust you, then
the idea is when you send them that email that's like 20%
off, they're ready to buy. Because that's the whole point. We're
(16:38):
trying to get them to come down the funnel with our nurture emails so that
they're interested in our products and they are ready to make a
purchase. Absolutely. And, and
that leads us on to, well, when is the right time to send a
promotional email versus a nurture type email? Because
I think a lot of people get stuck on this. They tend to either stay
(17:01):
in the nurture space where they feel safe,
maybe around sharing about who they are, how
they can help other people. Maybe it's more of a kind of
gentle approach or you might
find that you're in the other camp where you're just sending promotional
emails and you're hammering your base really hard with
(17:23):
offer after offer after offering. And actually
we suggest that you try and find the right balance with your
audience and reflect on what you've been
doing so far. Are you sending too many nurture emails? And be honest with yourself,
because it can be quite
surprising to think, actually I am sending just nurture emails.
(17:46):
And this is then linked to, like, you know, the sales you're
making from your email list. Are you talking enough
about the promotional aspects of your business in
email? You know, have you got the balance right? And I think, you know, both
Angie and I, these are the kind of questions that do come
up and it's a great question that we ask is, well,
(18:07):
how many nurture emails are you sending versus promotional?
What are your thoughts, Angie? No, you're 100%
right. I think I find with most business owners that I'm working with
and even myself, like, I get caught up in this,
that I have one type of email that I'm really comfortable with
making and sending, and then I just kind of get into a groove of kind
(18:30):
of sending the same type of email. And
I think what I've found as a contractor working in all
of these different audiences is that
people love variety. Like, who
buys from an email list? An engaged list buys.
How do people keep engaged with your content? Well, you're switching up the
(18:52):
content. You know, you're giving them value and then sometimes you're sending a
promo, and then sometimes you're giving them a behind the scenes look. So
actually having the mix is what keeps people engaged,
people excited to receive your emails because you're sending them all
this different types of content that hopefully it's speaking
to, you know, what they want to learn about, what they want to hear about.
(19:13):
And then also once in a while, giving them a discount, giving them,
you know, a free gift or, or, um,
you know, whatever it is for you and your promotion. So I
think that's why it is really important to switch it up. If you feel like
you've been, oh, maybe I have been sending, you know, something, try something
new, you know, switch it up a bit, you know, give your
(19:35):
audience a little jolt in the inbox. They'll like it. Oh, I like
that jolt. I think that's such a good point. Right? You could get
stuck in sending one type of email
and you're getting nowhere with your sales. So. Or it might be
that people are buying from you, but over time that's declining and you don't
know why. Yeah, that's exactly, I mean, because why do, why do
(19:58):
businesses get stuck in the promo after promo after promo Facebook? Because
promo emails are going to generate the most revenue for you. You know, people
are going to jump on that 20% off discount. So they're like,
oh, I want to send another one next week, and I want to send another
one next week. But what happens after time is,
again, you're not switching it up. So they know it's coming and
(20:20):
it's not special anymore. It's
predictable and so it kind of loses its luster.
Yeah, I mean, I worked in fashion and I remember when
promotional offers came up, it was like a drug, like you get
this short term boost, but then your margins are
affected. You know, I'm talking slightly bigger businesses here, but this is,
(20:42):
this applies to any business, right? If you constantly are on
sale, does that align with your brand? Does that align with the
vision you have for your business? Do you constantly want to be
on, you know, on promotional offers all the time?
Think about how you could get the balance right.
So if you're listening to this podcast now and you're thinking, actually, I
(21:05):
sit in the promotional space where I'm just constantly
selling, it's not too late to turn things around. And
what you can do is start to switch
it up, as Angie says, and try nurture type emails.
So think about how you can switch from being
all about the promotion to all about nurturing your audience.
(21:27):
So take a different approach. How might you get to know
them better? What do you know about
them that you can start to pull into the emails? What stories can you share
with them that aren't just about pushing
promotional emails on them?
It's really getting the balance right, isn't it, Angie? Because some people find that
(21:49):
they are the other side where they're just purely about
nurturing them. So what would you say to them? Oh, my goodness. Yeah, I
would say, I mean, bless you. I mean, because I'm
the same. Like, I just want to give my audience so much value. I want
to give my subscribers so much. And I think a lot of us service providers
are like, we don't want to be just another email in the inbox. We don't
(22:11):
want to bother people. You know, we want to give like, all this value. We
want to really help people. But at the end of the day, like,
our email marketing is, list is an asset to
generate revenue for our business. And the way that we generate
revenue through our email list is by asking for the sale
is by informing our audience that, hey, I have
(22:33):
this offer available and you might not know it. I think it's
also we need to stop assuming that our audience
knows about all of our offers or knows about our
programs and knows the ins and outs of them. They do not know.
They don't. They really don't know anything. And
you can't guarantee that they know anything. Even if you're showing up on social
(22:55):
media, you know, because of the algorithm, you don't know if they're
seeing your content or not. So you need to
inform them, you know, if people are reaching out to you and being like, oh,
how do I work with you? That might be a good indication that you need
to send an email. How to work with me? You know, it could just be
that simple, right? So start throwing in a little
(23:16):
sales. I don't have to do it all the time. You know, maybe once in
a while, especially when you need a little bit of business. Just try it
out and see how it goes for
you. They're on your email list. They know you're going to sell
them, so might as well just try it.
Absolutely. And we want to talk about as well, within
(23:38):
this balance, like how to get the balance right is also about
the importance of segmentation and targeting. So what do
we mean by that? Well, let's say there are, well,
there are different ways that people join your list. It could be that they
are interested in something specific, like your lead magnet.
It could be that they have signed up for an event that you might
(24:00):
be running. It could be that they've signed up for a special offer.
So depending on what people have signed up for, you can
decide whether you send them promotional
emails or nurture. But regardless of what
you decide to do, just make sure you are giving
each segment the right balance. So going back to
(24:22):
why did they sign up to receive content from you? What was
the goal for them? If it is just to get the offer,
then they might be more inclined to want to receive
promotional emails. But don't give them 100% promotional emails
because it will put them off when
it comes to segmentation here. And you might have different audiences. Think about
(24:45):
the reason why they've joined your list and how you might be able to
support them. But regardless, also think about where they are
in your customer journey. So, for example, if they're quite new to
your business, to your brand, they might need some more nurturing
because they still don't know you. They don't necessarily
have enough information about you to decide that
(25:08):
they can trust you. And this is completely normal. Right? I
mean, we use these nurture emails as a great way
to help someone get to know who we are.
Yeah. And I know for service providers, you
know, tapping into your customers
or your past clients, you know, that's a really easy way
(25:31):
to, if you, if you need to fill some spots or generate some
revenue quickly for one of your offers,
you know, tapping, creating a segment of, you know, people who've
bought from you before and then sending them a new offer or sending them like
some information about something has always been a really great way
for service providers to kind of make a sale quickly.
(25:53):
So definitely utilize that another segment to utilize. Well,
yeah, 100%. And also, you know, there's the other option of
actually bringing the two together for your newsletter. So you
might have, yeah, you might have one scenario where
you are nurturing them in your newsletter, but then you have a promo
banner for a special offer. So there's
(26:17):
nothing wrong in doing this. In fact, it's quite common and a lot
of people do it. Just make it really clear about, you know,
ultimately what's the priority goal for this email? Is it to
nurture my audience or is it to,
is it to promote my offer? And that will determine the
ordering of your email. So for example, if the primary
(26:38):
goal is to promote your special offer, put that at the
top. If it's about nurturing, then make it all about
nurturing with a secondary
content block that is about your offer. So you can bring the two
together. You can bring the two together and. You can even weave
in, like if you're doing a nurture email and say it's a letter
(27:00):
style email where you're telling a story about, you know, something that's going on
in your business, you can weave in your
products or your offers as you're telling the story just by
linking, you know, whenever you mention like something that
like, makes sense and, you know, that's also a great way to, to deliver
nurture. But if, because a lot of times what I find
(27:23):
is that nurture emails do prompt sales
for my clients because it's like people are like, oh yeah,
that's a great idea. If you're giving them tips or something like that. Or like,
oh yeah, I want to try that. How can try that? How can I take
it a step further? So if you just like naturally like link
in for those people that maybe are interested
(27:44):
in next steps, you know, that's a great way also that you could, you know,
flip a nurture email when the intention is
nurture email, which is totally cool as well. Yeah, and
you've made a really good point, Angie, that we haven't covered, which is
just around the whole idea of nurture and
promo being on different ends of the spectrum. Nurturing
(28:07):
emails are building up to the sale. So
think of it as stepping stones. Remember I said earlier
someone may have signed up to your list, but they don't necessarily know anything
about you yet. So think of maybe
walking up a staircase. People need to take certain steps before
they buy your product. Book a call with
(28:29):
you. And so those nurture emails are steps
towards booking a call, ultimately the
sale with you. And it might take some people, I've had someone
on my list for over a year and it's taken them that
long and that's typical, actually for some people that
it can take them a while. Others, they see you straight away and
(28:51):
they're in. So some people, everyone's
different in terms of how long they need to be nurtured.
But think of your nurturing email as supporting
your promotional efforts. But without
promotional emails do have that instant short term
(29:13):
gratification. You get that instant sale and that's great.
But the nurture type emails are the longer
term strategy towards more sales in the future. So they work
well together, but they also have their individual roles to play.
Right. That makes sense, right? No, it does make sense because,
you know, we don't want someone to just buy from us once. We want them
(29:36):
to come back time and time again and they're going to come
back if they have a strong connection with you. They're going to come back if
they really, really like your brand, if they believe in the same things that you
believe in, if they trust you, if they've had a good experience
with you. And that's the type of content that your nurture emails deliver. So
it ensures more long term success
(29:58):
for you and your business. It really does. It really
does. So just to kind of
recap, really the balance between your nurture and promotional
emails, take a look at how you're currently doing it today
and actually start to look at some of the emails you receive from
other businesses and spot whether you can tell if it's a
(30:21):
nurture email or a promotional email. You'll
find actually some brands are just purely promotional and it's going to be
obvious to you which ones they're going to have. High turnover.
Yeah. High unsubscribe rates as well.
Yeah. And then on the other side you'll see those that are nurturing
(30:42):
and you'll see how they nurture. So that's a good one, just to
see how others and do that within the inbox.
So, yeah, we've talked about the difference between promotional and nurture. We've
talked about getting the balance right. We've talked
about how to bring them together for your
newsletter. We've talked about some trending
(31:05):
nurture emails and trending promotional emails, what's popular
right now and actually how to
address the, when
it's at the right time to use a nurture email over a promotional email.
So in effect, we want you to think
about your own balance and look at how can you
(31:28):
address the imbalance that you might have. And we'd love
to hear how you get on with perhaps introducing more
promo emails into the mix. You know, mix it up a bit.
Maybe. Maybe your audience are
waiting for you to bring an offer out and
naturally they're just waiting for that next email
(31:49):
from you. So if you're feeling like, nervous
about doing it, we say just try it and see.
Because if you've been nurturing for a
while, green light, you know, send a sale email, you know,
there's, to me like, there's really nothing.
There's no consequences. I mean, sure, you might get some unsubscribes, but we're
(32:12):
going to get unsubscribed from every email that we sent, right.
So just give it a go because you've been
nurturing, you've been giving them value. So
I feel like it's a good reason to give it a go.
Absolutely. And one of the things that I want to leave you with
on this as we start to wrap up is
(32:33):
sometimes this imbalance where you're sending
too many promotional emails or too many nurture emails is the
one thing that is holding back
some businesses from making a success
of their email marketing. I gave some feedback to
a client a few months ago. I asked them the question about
(32:55):
the balance. They realized that they were sending too many promo
emails and not enough nurturing. They readdressed and it
changed the sales that
they started to make from their list. So it can be something as simple
as this and we really encourage you to look at it
and let us know if you have any questions. We'd love to hear from
(33:17):
you. How did you get on with
reflecting on where you're up to, what you'd like to do differently,
and how that first promo email went or the first nurture email?
We want to hear from you, but thank you so much for
listening. That's everything we have for today. We look
forward to hearing you and speaking to you at the next
(33:40):
episode. And thank you so much. Thanks, Angie.
Thank you. We'll see you guys next time. Take care.
You've just listened to females across the pond and beyond podcasts with your
hosts, Clara and Angie. If you like our content, don't
forget to subscribe, rate and review us on the platform of your
(34:00):
choice. Is there something you want to hear about for our next
episode? Email
us@femalesacrossthepondmail.com to let us
know. Until next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.