October 11, 2024 • 33 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(upbeat music)
(00:02):
Welcome to the Females Across the Pond and Beyond podcast.
Hi, I'm Clara.
Hi, I'm Angie.
We're here to share all things email and beyond.
We go through the trials and tribulations
of running your own business,
being your own boss and sending your own email marketing.
As email marketing experts,
we're dedicated to helping small businesses thrive
(00:24):
so they can have more freedom in their business.
Ready to get started?
Let's dive into the episode.
(upbeat music)
Hello, everyone.
Welcome to another episode of Females Across the Pond and Beyond.
We are so excited to dive into this topic today.
(00:46):
Today, we are talking all about when is it time
to let go of your email marketing channel
and let somebody else take it over for you?
We think that this is a very important thing to discuss
because we just see time and time again
our clients struggling with,
(01:06):
when is it time to let go
but also having a really hard time letting go?
Because it's your email account.
It means a lot to you.
Your name is sometimes on the emails, totally understandable,
but hopefully we can kind of bring up some interesting points
(01:27):
that'll make you reconsider where you're at
with managing your own email account, Clara.
- Right.
- Yeah, I'm excited about this one
because this is really about mindset
and like the whole idea of being in control.
- Yeah.
- And actually making the right decisions at the right time.
(01:48):
So yeah, really excited about this podcast.
- Sure, before we dive in, give us a rundown.
What's going on with you?
What was your weekend like or anything in your business
that you wanna talk about that's been exciting?
- Yeah, I just was saying to you earlier, Angie,
that I've got a client at the moment who is running a,
(02:10):
I won't go into detail about exactly what they do
but basically one of the things they were doing
with their abandoned cart is they were putting
absolutely everything in their abandoned cart.
And for me, it's a big no-no, like if you're abandoning cart,
it's because you're focused on one particular thing.
So we ran a test and actually there's a big uplift
(02:35):
in performance for the version
that had no other extra gump in it.
It was basically very single-minded
exactly how abandoned carts should be.
And it's just great to have some evidence
to show the client to say actually this is where,
this is a direction we need to go for your abandoned cart.
(02:57):
So that's business and then in terms of home,
just clearing stuff out, getting things ready for the autumn,
it feels like summer is starting to fade
but I love summer and then I'm going on holiday next week
to the Greek islands and I cannot wait.
- Woo! - I don't wait.
(03:18):
How about you?
- No, that's very exciting.
I'm super excited for you because you've been talking
about this Greek island vacation for months.
So I'm ready for you to go on.
'Cause I'm like, this girl needs a vacation.
- Yeah.
- It's the same thing.
You normally run your own business,
like you do want to be accessible
(03:38):
but my boundaries are in place to say actually
from these dates, I'm not contactable.
And I think that just comes from having people
be able to answer questions on your behalf
when you are away.
But it's difficult, it's difficult.
It kind of leads to very well to the topic today,
doesn't it, about when to let go?
- Yeah, absolutely because you know,
(04:01):
your marketing doesn't stop if you go on vacation,
your marketing still needs to be happening.
So how do you make that happen, right?
- Exactly.
- But now things are good with me.
Yeah, summer is winding down, it's almost back to school time.
We actually got, I don't know if I let you know,
do you know what a heat lock is?
Probably not.
(04:21):
It's a home equity line of credit.
So we purchased our home back in 2021.
And since then, the price of homes have gotten,
quite up, they have gotten really high.
So we have a good amount of equity in our house
(04:42):
and we've got approved for some money to take it out
and we're gonna finish our basement
and we're gonna put in a patio in the back.
So we have been--
- Lovely.
- So we're in mortgage, so you're in mortgage age.
- Yeah, sure, I don't know.
- Yeah, that must be our turn.
- Yeah, and they're exactly what you mean.
(05:03):
- Basically, the line of credit that we pay ourselves back on.
- Yeah.
- We had a lower interest rate than a typical credit card,
so it's not as high.
So yeah, we basically have, it's crazy.
I'm like, I have a debit card of way too much money right now.
Not gonna use it on anything, but obviously,
(05:24):
we're just focusing on it, but I could go crazy.
- Very shopping.
- But then my house, then my house, I can lose my house.
- But that's really exciting.
We've had contractors coming out and we're getting quotes
and we're excited to move forward on that
because I want my living room to back to myself.
(05:47):
I know, like my living room was full of toys and craziness
and mommy needs her space and the boys
and the kids need their space
and that's gonna be in the basement.
I'm also getting my own office.
- Lovely.
- Oh yeah, we're gonna build it out to have two offices,
spare bedroom and a whole living room down there
'cause it's the size of our entire house, so.
(06:09):
- Oh, that's amazing.
Yeah. - Ready for when I come see visit.
Hell yeah, we will have a room.
You are welcome at any time.
I don't know if you'd want to come to Michigan.
- Yeah, I'd like to do it.
- You have to do a bid.
- I know, right?
Me.
We could go to the Great Lakes and, you know.
(06:30):
- Yeah, I'm planning a US trip at some point.
It would be nice, I have friends across the states, family
and also in Canada, so it'll be an expensive trip,
but worth it.
So yeah, one day.
- Make a pit stop in Detroit and yeah,
you'll have a place to stay.
Okay, let's get into this episode
(06:51):
because this is business owners.
This is a conversation that we need to have face to face
and we're gonna have it right now.
(laughs)
- So yeah, knowing when it's time to delegate your email
management out and why is it an important decision?
Why do you think it's an important decision,
at least to make for yourself, maybe at the beginning
(07:15):
of the year or whenever it is, to really just talk about,
like, you know, what's working in my email
and is it worth it to outsource?
What do you think, Clara?
- I think this is an really important decision to make.
At the right time.
So it's really important for business owners
(07:35):
to be stepping back and thinking right,
where can I add value in my business versus how long
is it gonna take me to learn something new?
Now, I'm all for development and learning new skills,
but when you're a business owner, your time is precious
and it's limited.
So by all means learn new skills, particularly if you're not,
(07:57):
if you're very new to marketing,
even more so email marketing,
but there comes a time where you're trying
to spend too many plates and it becomes a case of you being
then exhausted, you might be working all hours.
You might even have a team and you're still working
crazy hours and there might be a feeling of, you know,
(08:20):
overwhelmed, we've all been there with that feeling of,
oh my god, where do I even start?
The list is huge.
I mean, these are some of the things that you might be
experiencing as a small business owner.
And we've what you to recognize that this is not a good place
to be long term.
In fact, you don't even be here in the short term, right?
(08:40):
Yeah.
- Yeah, and I feel you on like the overwhelm and the burnout,
like those are definitely signs that it might be time
to re-evaluate.
I also think another sign is, are your emails planned out?
Like, are you creating your emails ahead of time?
(09:01):
Or is this last minute?
Are you like, oh yeah, we're gonna run a sale next weekend
or this weekend, I need to get this email out of door
and I need to write it like quickly last minute thing.
To me, that's kind of a sign that you might,
you might wanna think about outsourcing emails,
I think emails deserve time, the amount of money
(09:24):
that can be generated from email marketing.
It shouldn't be something that you're doing last minute.
It shouldn't be something that's put on the back burner
with everything else that you have going on.
And as you said, as business owners,
typically you're also coming up with products
or running your business or doing the things
that you actually set out to do when you started your business.
(09:46):
What made you start your business?
Typically not marketing.
So the fact that you're juggling all of that,
typically then that means that you're,
whether it's your email marketing or social media,
that is kind of left in the dust and quite frankly,
that's what makes you sales.
It cannot be left in the dust.
(10:07):
It needs to be a priority.
So if it's not a priority for you,
it might be a good time to make it a priority
for somebody else.
Yeah, and actually, it's a, yeah, really good point.
So actually another point to raise here is actually,
what is the performance of your email marketing?
(10:28):
Are you actually looking at results and actually,
how much are you making?
And it's not always about sales.
We know that, but what is your performance looking like?
Is it increasing or is it decreasing?
Part of knowing what to do next doesn't
these are things that are learned over time by myself
(10:49):
and Angie, we know intuitively, okay,
there's a problem here.
We know how to fix it, but if you're a small business owner
and you're seeing declining performance,
you could spend days, weeks trying to figure out
what's going on and he may not even get an answer
because it can be complex.
I know certainly for some work I'm doing at the moment,
(11:11):
it takes approaching it in the right way
because otherwise you're drowned in numbers and stats
and you'll just get completely lost.
So depending on how big your list is
and the amount of emails you're sending out,
you need to have a good idea of what's working,
(11:32):
what isn't working at a very basic level.
And if you're not and you're just literally sending stuff
out without any kind of thinking behind it,
then you're kind of wasting effort really
and you're essentially damaging your list,
you're not making sales.
So there's a number of disadvantages
to not being really clear about your performance
(11:55):
and actually being really close to the ground
on what's happening with your email list.
Yeah, and I think, you know, if you are keeping,
and I would implore everyone listening to this podcast,
you know, take a moment and have a go look at your stats.
Have your, you know, are your click rates, you know,
(12:16):
at the benchmarks of, if you, I don't want to get too much
into that, but if you Google like benchmarks for email marketing,
MailChimp has a tool that you can see,
what are the typical like average open rates
and click rates and click through rates
and place order rates in my industry?
I would implore everybody to look that up.
(12:38):
That's kind of like a good place for you to be like,
where are my stats compared to others in my industry?
Is it going to be absolutely accurate?
No, but it's a good place to begin.
And if you find that your stats are lower
and they haven't gone up and you're not increasing your revenue
from email marketing or maybe your click rates
aren't increasing, that is also another sign
(12:58):
that what you are doing is not working
and you might want to bring in an expert or somebody who like,
you know, like us who can see exactly what's going on
and put things in place to improve that are going to be much faster
than you just continuing to send emails that are not working.
I think that's one of the things that I see whenever I do
(13:20):
like one-off projects for clients or I do like an audit,
you know, they kind of, we get into a groove,
we get comfortable with kind of doing the same thing over
and over again because it's quick, it's easy.
We don't have to think very much, we don't have to strategize.
But then I see that what they're doing isn't working
(13:40):
but they're not changing.
So have a good hard look at is my strategy working
and if it's not even just like hiring an email marketer
to give you a consultation or to, you know,
give you some a couple pointers to be like,
this is not working or this is what we would suggest
(14:01):
might be helpful as well.
Yeah, and I completely agree.
I know that a lot of you out there are very, you know,
as more business owners, we are by nature people
that problem solvers, we want to fix things, we want to learn.
But one of the things that, you know, it's worth calling out here is,
(14:23):
it may be something that is nothing to do with what you're actually doing.
There might be a problem within your debt.
That's right.
So, yeah, so for example, you might have,
you might have been impacted by spam.
And one of the things that's really keen a lot of people don't realize is
is that you can't see a lot of the impact in your own email platform.
(14:44):
It's actually external reporting that can tell you if there's a problem.
So you can spend hours trying to fix things that are kind of beyond your viewpoints.
Yeah.
And it's the case of weighing up, you know,
how much is your time worse?
You know, if you're someone that say you make precious jewelry or you're creating designs
(15:07):
for your next line or you're a service provider, you know, whatever you're doing,
you don't want to be spending hours and hours.
I remember a client once sent to me, I'd spent, she had spent 10 hours
just creating one welcome email and it just, she was spending 10 hours a day
because she was learning the platform at the same time.
(15:29):
And that for me is way too much time.
That's not worth it.
It's not worth it.
I just have to pay so many a couple hundred dollars.
It's not worth it.
Yeah, it's not worth it.
And it's like you're having to learn a whole platform on your own.
And to be fair, like if you were on Mailer, like they're very intuitive and easy to use,
(15:50):
but as you, your business scales and as you want to do more complex things,
it becomes harder because you don't know how to
do these things efficiently.
You're learning and therefore you're slowing your business down and actually then
slowing your growth.
That's something that I kind of want to talk about because I think one thing that,
(16:13):
I don't know, I feel like we are as business and soners.
We're running our social media accounts and we're running our email marketing accounts.
Those are two very different things like to me.
It's one thing like social media to me is much easier for the average person to learn and manage.
(16:34):
There really isn't a lot of like legalities, like regulations, like you know,
like you know what to post and what not to post and what to do.
It's pretty straightforward.
Whereas an email marketing account is, I don't want to scare anyone, but it is pretty complex.
And you get to a certain point where there are a lot of laws to follow.
(16:56):
Like earlier on in this year, we had all of those updates with Google and Yahoo and we were
going into accounts and adding a DMR records to their DNS.
And like the average small business owner, if you're like, what's a DMR record?
What is a DNS?
Which I'm sure that's what you're thinking.
(17:16):
You don't know what that stuff is.
There's very complex stuff that comes with email marketing, and especially as you continue
to grow your account, it just gets even more complex.
It's a lot different than managing a social media account.
I think as a business owner, you could run your social media account like for the long haul
and like it's the same stuff.
You don't really have to worry about you know, learning too many skills like once you get it going.
(17:40):
With email marketing, you have to continue to be on top of the updates.
You have to continue to learn new skills.
And as it gets more complex and complicated like, you know, it requires more of your time.
And so I think a lot of times business owners will first and foremost,
outsource their social media because it's time consuming.
But so is email marketing.
(18:01):
And email marketing is even more complicated.
And it also drives more revenue and more sales.
To me, you should be outsourcing your email marketing well ahead of outsourcing or social media.
You can do your social media.
It comes a point where you will not be able to do your email marketing.
And that's just the fact.
Yeah, completely agree.
Angie, if you know, a small business owner is listening to this podcast,
(18:26):
like how do they know when is the right time to outsource?
I think that you need to really do a cost versus like benefit analysis as we kind of have here on
your sheet.
I think first and foremost, you need to understand
how much of your revenue is coming from email marketing currently.
(18:48):
And I think a lot of business owners don't even know that.
Yeah.
That can be as simple as setting up a Google Analytics account.
You know, that's free again, like an extra skill, something else you have to do.
But in order for you to really understand like, what is the revenue that's coming in from emails,
(19:08):
we need to have those stats.
So you need to gather that data and be very aware of how much revenue is coming in.
And then I want you to also, I would love for you to understand
in the past, you know, months or maybe even the past year, has that revenue from your emails gone up?
(19:31):
Has it gone down?
Like, what is the trend of your email marketing?
Email marketing should account, well, industry averages.
I don't know what you've heard.
To me, I hear anywhere from like 20% to 30% of your revenue should be coming from email marketing.
Is that what you hear?
Yeah, I mean, it can range like it could be, it can range even way higher than that.
(19:53):
Yeah, I've seen companies that have like started to get work with them in like 10%
and it depends.
One news, when you start to scale, your attribution models become more complicated.
But on average, yeah, I would say a good indication,
depending on your business as well, how much you do elsewhere, the email should be a big
(20:13):
part of your revenue.
And so you're going to know, you're going to get a good sense of what your total revenue is
and how much you're making through email.
And if you're not making 30%, then those are signs that there is a lot of revenue or a lot of money
that you are leaving on the table, I would say.
Yeah, exactly.
(20:34):
And you know, if you're a product-based business,
there are certain flows that you could set up that should be making you money while you sleep.
And these are things that, you know, there are ways to do that yourself,
but it's about knowing the best way to do that.
It's going to generate the most amount for you, but also engage your audience.
So there's a lot of balancing going on with when you outsource,
(21:00):
the person that's looking at your account is making,
or at least looking at different ways to approach things.
So, so yeah, the right time is, yeah, in effect, going to be once you've had a look at this data,
once you made that decision.
And then it's about looking at how you might want to start budgeting for help.
(21:20):
So there are different ways to get help.
You could have someone who is simply like a VA,
kind of for a small business owner, all the way up to a fully-fledged agency.
And it really depends on your budget and the kind of support you are looking for.
So if you want someone to write your emails and send a few newsletters out for you and maybe build
(21:47):
a few flows, and maybe is a free answer for you, I would say if you do go down the VA route,
just make sure they have experience in email marketing because there are lots of VA's that say they
know email, but I would just question them to say what have they done in the past, what platforms have
they worked with, and then you go all the way through to agencies. But in between that, you do get
(22:13):
consultancies like myself and Angie who actually experienced.
And we offer different kinds of services, so it might be just one of strategy call, it might be
you want a full audit, there are a number of ways you can work with someone, it doesn't have to be
on a retainer basis, although that could work really well for you if you just want to outsource.
(22:38):
I know definitely some clients come to me and say I just want to take this off my to-do list.
Whereas others may say I just need some help figuring out where I'm going wrong, and so I can get
back on track, and that's absolutely fine as well, there's no right or wrong here. It's just about
what is right for you, and actually recognizing, as we've said earlier, that it's affecting your
(23:02):
business by not taking action. Yeah, for sure, and it's also like your time, right? How much do you value
your time? How much time are you spending on this stuff? And is that time that you're spending on
this stuff actually resulting in dollars for your business? I'm right there with you, there is a
(23:22):
full range. You could pay someone, you know, you could pay a VA in the Philippines for like $7
an hour to help you just send the emails, make sure that they have, like Clara said, some experience
inside of your account because again, email accounts can be complex, and it's not like every Joe Schmo can
(23:44):
just come in and learn a brand new email account, it's going to take them time. So you either want to
budget for that time to train them or, you know, hire someone who already is specialized in that. And
one thing to keep in mind is, I mean, I feel strongly about this, you get what you pay for. So if you
(24:05):
have a lower budget, then just hire someone to put the templates together or to schedule the email,
or do like the really simple stuff. And then as you, you know, maybe free up more time and you're sending
more emails and you're making more money, then you can look at outsourcing to someone like me or
Clara who, you know, can give you strategy or, or, you know, it end up doing the whole thing. But we,
(24:31):
yeah, like Clara said, we also have like audits and strategy calls. But I will say that my clients who
actually get the best results and who see the highest return on investment do invest in just outsourcing
to us. I think like at the end of the day, that should be your goal is to one day like outsource it
(24:53):
completely. That's when you're going to be able to make the most money off of your email marketing
channel. That's what we see time and time again. Of course, there's going to be people out there who can
do it themselves and, you know, are able to make the money themselves kudos to you. But I still kind of
think like as a CEO, as a business owner, you know, is your time spent better elsewhere? Yeah. And
(25:16):
I completely agree. And one of the things to think about, let's say, budget is tight right now.
What I would do in as a small business owner is get someone in to help me simply send my
newsletter on a regular basis. Just get them out. Just get them out and keep that consistency going
(25:37):
so you're nurturing your audience or even making sales through that while you figure out the other
things at the very minimum. Don't not send anything particularly if you've got a list. I always find
that when people say to me, I've got a list of, you know, I've got a list of two or three hundred people
at least, but I haven't sent anything to them. It's six months. And I just think, what a shame you could
(25:57):
be. Yeah, you could be earning money from your list and your sat in procrastination and you're not
doing anything with it. So if you want to get results and you don't have time, then hire someone to come
in and, and actually, you know, we talked about this touching on mindset. This is about letting go
(26:19):
and letting someone into your business. And I know that feeling, there's, you know, trust that comes
into it and there's the kind of feeling that you're allowing someone to send something out on your
behalf, but you can determine all of that. You can sign off on each of the emails. You can give them
a tone of voice, document. Yeah. There's so much in your control, but you can be a collaboration still.
(26:43):
Yeah, but yet you are not doing the work. You're simply signing off. And then, you know, you can
work with your, your freelancer to say, right, when should I expect to see results in terms of
the performance and they can help you by sharing that with you? So it is scary letting someone into
(27:06):
your business. I've been there and I know exactly how it feels, but if you read any of the, the
kind of big business books out there, they'll tell you that outsourcing is the key to success
for your business. Yeah. There's no one that I know that is super successful that does everything
themselves. Like, can you think of anyone that literally sends their own emails? Does their own social
(27:30):
media at some point? And it's a good sign if you're ready to outsource because it means you're generating
some level of income to bring people in to help you. And you can determine what that looks like. It
doesn't have to be forever. You know, if you have this fear of committing to some working with someone
(27:51):
and, you know, understandably if you've had bad experiences, you can say, let's trial this for one
month or three months. Yeah. Yeah. Put a time limit on it. Yeah. Yeah. And if it's not working with
that one person, it doesn't, it probably just means that that person, like, wasn't a good fit for your
business or didn't have the skills that you needed them to have. You know, and you probably don't
(28:15):
know what skills you need in an email marketer, you know, to be honest. So it might take some trial
and error. And that's okay. I would say, you know, go through it. It's totally worth it to find your
email person because again, the return is just, you know, 36 to one, right? 36 dollars every one dollar
you spend on email marketing. Like, so if you're paying someone monthly for your email marketing,
(28:41):
you should, on average, get a return of 36 dollars for every one dollar you spend on them. Okay? So if
you're not getting that, there's somebody else who will be able to give you that because that's the
average. Yeah. And it's such an amazing start that people still to this day don't realize the impact
(29:01):
of that. And if, even if you're, even if you have a free platform, let's say you're paying for someone
to come in, look at what you're paying in versus the return you're making from email, that should,
they should, it should pay for them and then some. So I always get really excited when I do a strategy
call because I'm sharing things that people don't necessarily think they can do. And I think,
(29:26):
at the very minimum, as I've said before, get a newsletter going and then you can really start
to do some of the fun stuff around the flows, the automations and what have you. But the first
thing above all of this is making that decision and it's, it's not easy.
Letting anyone into your business is not easy, but one of the things I do recommend is getting,
(29:47):
well, first of all, do your research, look at who you're going to work with, you know,
get a sense of who they are on social media sign up to their email list.
See if they do their own emails. That's always a good sign. But then also think about
reputation and referrals as well. So there are multiple ways for people to help you. But as your
(30:12):
business starts to grow, you're going to need more sophisticated help. You're going to need people
that really understand strategy. And that's kind of work that Angie and I do. We love helping people.
You know, we also offer retained work as well. But it really depends on the client and the kind of
challenges they're facing. But really what we want to say here is don't be afraid to let go of this
(30:38):
and give it a chance to see what happens working with someone, what they can do. I think
if all that free time you'll have that. Yeah, yeah, because like we said in our experience with
the clients that do that with us, they see an increase in their sales, you know, like they do get a
return on investment and investing with us because email marketing again is still the number one
(31:01):
online sales channel for business owners. So if it's not for you, then something isn't working
and it might be time to outsource. And again, you can start very small. And the first thing that I would
do is create a budget, budget to hire someone to get people in and what can you get for that budget,
even if it's $500 for the month? Okay, what can I get for $500? You know, and see what you can,
(31:24):
you know, get some help with. So, let us know if you have any more questions about this. I know
some of this is clear as mud. It's like, when is it the best time? Typically, you know, that's up to you
what your stats are, what's going on in your business. But I would be working towards as quickly as you
can, working towards completely outsourcing this channel. It's only going to grow your business and
(31:46):
grow your sales even more, the more that you can do that. Absolutely. And this is one of the best ways
to grow your business. So why would you be trying to do it yourself when it's not your necessarily
or area of expertise? So this allows you this, this, this, the whole point of this podcast is to allow
you to let go of trying to learn about email. Learn this crazy new skill. Yeah.
(32:11):
Yeah. And this new skill that is absolutely possible if you have time. But most small business
owners don't. And therefore, you want to be focusing on what you do best and what you love. So
this is really a way for you to start thinking about how can I enable that? How can I make that
happen for me? And it's completely possible. Yes. All right. I think that's all we have for today.
(32:38):
If you guys have any more questions or comments, definitely let us know. And we will see you on the next
episode, right? Thank you guys. Thanks for listening. See you on the next episode. Bye.
(32:59):
You've just listened to females across the pond and beyond podcasts with your hosts, Clara and Angie.
If you like our content, don't forget to subscribe, rate and review us on the platform of your choice.
Is there something you want to hear about for our next episode? Email us at females across the pond
at gmail.com to let us know. Until next time.
(33:24):
[BLANK_AUDIO]
(upbeat music)
(00:02):
Welcome to the Females Across the Pond and Beyond podcast.
Hi, I'm Clara.
Hi, I'm Angie.
We're here to share all things email and beyond.
We go through the trials and tribulations
of running your own business,
being your own boss and sending your own email marketing.
As email marketing experts,
we're dedicated to helping small businesses thrive
(00:24):
so they can have more freedom in their business.
Ready to get started?
Let's dive into the episode.
(upbeat music)
Hello, everyone.
Welcome to another episode of Females Across the Pond and Beyond.
We are so excited to dive into this topic today.
(00:46):
Today, we are talking all about when is it time
to let go of your email marketing channel
and let somebody else take it over for you?
We think that this is a very important thing to discuss
because we just see time and time again
our clients struggling with,
(01:06):
when is it time to let go
but also having a really hard time letting go?
Because it's your email account.
It means a lot to you.
Your name is sometimes on the emails, totally understandable,
but hopefully we can kind of bring up some interesting points
(01:27):
that'll make you reconsider where you're at
with managing your own email account, Clara.
- Right.
- Yeah, I'm excited about this one
because this is really about mindset
and like the whole idea of being in control.
- Yeah.
- And actually making the right decisions at the right time.
(01:48):
So yeah, really excited about this podcast.
- Sure, before we dive in, give us a rundown.
What's going on with you?
What was your weekend like or anything in your business
that you wanna talk about that's been exciting?
- Yeah, I just was saying to you earlier, Angie,
that I've got a client at the moment who is running a,
(02:10):
I won't go into detail about exactly what they do
but basically one of the things they were doing
with their abandoned cart is they were putting
absolutely everything in their abandoned cart.
And for me, it's a big no-no, like if you're abandoning cart,
it's because you're focused on one particular thing.
So we ran a test and actually there's a big uplift
(02:35):
in performance for the version
that had no other extra gump in it.
It was basically very single-minded
exactly how abandoned carts should be.
And it's just great to have some evidence
to show the client to say actually this is where,
this is a direction we need to go for your abandoned cart.
(02:57):
So that's business and then in terms of home,
just clearing stuff out, getting things ready for the autumn,
it feels like summer is starting to fade
but I love summer and then I'm going on holiday next week
to the Greek islands and I cannot wait.
- Woo! - I don't wait.
(03:18):
How about you?
- No, that's very exciting.
I'm super excited for you because you've been talking
about this Greek island vacation for months.
So I'm ready for you to go on.
'Cause I'm like, this girl needs a vacation.
- Yeah.
- It's the same thing.
You normally run your own business,
like you do want to be accessible
(03:38):
but my boundaries are in place to say actually
from these dates, I'm not contactable.
And I think that just comes from having people
be able to answer questions on your behalf
when you are away.
But it's difficult, it's difficult.
It kind of leads to very well to the topic today,
doesn't it, about when to let go?
- Yeah, absolutely because you know,
(04:01):
your marketing doesn't stop if you go on vacation,
your marketing still needs to be happening.
So how do you make that happen, right?
- Exactly.
- But now things are good with me.
Yeah, summer is winding down, it's almost back to school time.
We actually got, I don't know if I let you know,
do you know what a heat lock is?
Probably not.
(04:21):
It's a home equity line of credit.
So we purchased our home back in 2021.
And since then, the price of homes have gotten,
quite up, they have gotten really high.
So we have a good amount of equity in our house
(04:42):
and we've got approved for some money to take it out
and we're gonna finish our basement
and we're gonna put in a patio in the back.
So we have been--
- Lovely.
- So we're in mortgage, so you're in mortgage age.
- Yeah, sure, I don't know.
- Yeah, that must be our turn.
- Yeah, and they're exactly what you mean.
(05:03):
- Basically, the line of credit that we pay ourselves back on.
- Yeah.
- We had a lower interest rate than a typical credit card,
so it's not as high.
So yeah, we basically have, it's crazy.
I'm like, I have a debit card of way too much money right now.
Not gonna use it on anything, but obviously,
(05:24):
we're just focusing on it, but I could go crazy.
- Very shopping.
- But then my house, then my house, I can lose my house.
- But that's really exciting.
We've had contractors coming out and we're getting quotes
and we're excited to move forward on that
because I want my living room to back to myself.
(05:47):
I know, like my living room was full of toys and craziness
and mommy needs her space and the boys
and the kids need their space
and that's gonna be in the basement.
I'm also getting my own office.
- Lovely.
- Oh yeah, we're gonna build it out to have two offices,
spare bedroom and a whole living room down there
'cause it's the size of our entire house, so.
(06:09):
- Oh, that's amazing.
Yeah. - Ready for when I come see visit.
Hell yeah, we will have a room.
You are welcome at any time.
I don't know if you'd want to come to Michigan.
- Yeah, I'd like to do it.
- You have to do a bid.
- I know, right?
Me.
We could go to the Great Lakes and, you know.
(06:30):
- Yeah, I'm planning a US trip at some point.
It would be nice, I have friends across the states, family
and also in Canada, so it'll be an expensive trip,
but worth it.
So yeah, one day.
- Make a pit stop in Detroit and yeah,
you'll have a place to stay.
Okay, let's get into this episode
(06:51):
because this is business owners.
This is a conversation that we need to have face to face
and we're gonna have it right now.
(laughs)
- So yeah, knowing when it's time to delegate your email
management out and why is it an important decision?
Why do you think it's an important decision,
at least to make for yourself, maybe at the beginning
(07:15):
of the year or whenever it is, to really just talk about,
like, you know, what's working in my email
and is it worth it to outsource?
What do you think, Clara?
- I think this is an really important decision to make.
At the right time.
So it's really important for business owners
(07:35):
to be stepping back and thinking right,
where can I add value in my business versus how long
is it gonna take me to learn something new?
Now, I'm all for development and learning new skills,
but when you're a business owner, your time is precious
and it's limited.
So by all means learn new skills, particularly if you're not,
(07:57):
if you're very new to marketing,
even more so email marketing,
but there comes a time where you're trying
to spend too many plates and it becomes a case of you being
then exhausted, you might be working all hours.
You might even have a team and you're still working
crazy hours and there might be a feeling of, you know,
(08:20):
overwhelmed, we've all been there with that feeling of,
oh my god, where do I even start?
The list is huge.
I mean, these are some of the things that you might be
experiencing as a small business owner.
And we've what you to recognize that this is not a good place
to be long term.
In fact, you don't even be here in the short term, right?
(08:40):
Yeah.
- Yeah, and I feel you on like the overwhelm and the burnout,
like those are definitely signs that it might be time
to re-evaluate.
I also think another sign is, are your emails planned out?
Like, are you creating your emails ahead of time?
(09:01):
Or is this last minute?
Are you like, oh yeah, we're gonna run a sale next weekend
or this weekend, I need to get this email out of door
and I need to write it like quickly last minute thing.
To me, that's kind of a sign that you might,
you might wanna think about outsourcing emails,
I think emails deserve time, the amount of money
(09:24):
that can be generated from email marketing.
It shouldn't be something that you're doing last minute.
It shouldn't be something that's put on the back burner
with everything else that you have going on.
And as you said, as business owners,
typically you're also coming up with products
or running your business or doing the things
that you actually set out to do when you started your business.
(09:46):
What made you start your business?
Typically not marketing.
So the fact that you're juggling all of that,
typically then that means that you're,
whether it's your email marketing or social media,
that is kind of left in the dust and quite frankly,
that's what makes you sales.
It cannot be left in the dust.
(10:07):
It needs to be a priority.
So if it's not a priority for you,
it might be a good time to make it a priority
for somebody else.
Yeah, and actually, it's a, yeah, really good point.
So actually another point to raise here is actually,
what is the performance of your email marketing?
(10:28):
Are you actually looking at results and actually,
how much are you making?
And it's not always about sales.
We know that, but what is your performance looking like?
Is it increasing or is it decreasing?
Part of knowing what to do next doesn't
these are things that are learned over time by myself
(10:49):
and Angie, we know intuitively, okay,
there's a problem here.
We know how to fix it, but if you're a small business owner
and you're seeing declining performance,
you could spend days, weeks trying to figure out
what's going on and he may not even get an answer
because it can be complex.
I know certainly for some work I'm doing at the moment,
(11:11):
it takes approaching it in the right way
because otherwise you're drowned in numbers and stats
and you'll just get completely lost.
So depending on how big your list is
and the amount of emails you're sending out,
you need to have a good idea of what's working,
(11:32):
what isn't working at a very basic level.
And if you're not and you're just literally sending stuff
out without any kind of thinking behind it,
then you're kind of wasting effort really
and you're essentially damaging your list,
you're not making sales.
So there's a number of disadvantages
to not being really clear about your performance
(11:55):
and actually being really close to the ground
on what's happening with your email list.
Yeah, and I think, you know, if you are keeping,
and I would implore everyone listening to this podcast,
you know, take a moment and have a go look at your stats.
Have your, you know, are your click rates, you know,
(12:16):
at the benchmarks of, if you, I don't want to get too much
into that, but if you Google like benchmarks for email marketing,
MailChimp has a tool that you can see,
what are the typical like average open rates
and click rates and click through rates
and place order rates in my industry?
I would implore everybody to look that up.
(12:38):
That's kind of like a good place for you to be like,
where are my stats compared to others in my industry?
Is it going to be absolutely accurate?
No, but it's a good place to begin.
And if you find that your stats are lower
and they haven't gone up and you're not increasing your revenue
from email marketing or maybe your click rates
aren't increasing, that is also another sign
(12:58):
that what you are doing is not working
and you might want to bring in an expert or somebody who like,
you know, like us who can see exactly what's going on
and put things in place to improve that are going to be much faster
than you just continuing to send emails that are not working.
I think that's one of the things that I see whenever I do
(13:20):
like one-off projects for clients or I do like an audit,
you know, they kind of, we get into a groove,
we get comfortable with kind of doing the same thing over
and over again because it's quick, it's easy.
We don't have to think very much, we don't have to strategize.
But then I see that what they're doing isn't working
(13:40):
but they're not changing.
So have a good hard look at is my strategy working
and if it's not even just like hiring an email marketer
to give you a consultation or to, you know,
give you some a couple pointers to be like,
this is not working or this is what we would suggest
(14:01):
might be helpful as well.
Yeah, and I completely agree.
I know that a lot of you out there are very, you know,
as more business owners, we are by nature people
that problem solvers, we want to fix things, we want to learn.
But one of the things that, you know, it's worth calling out here is,
(14:23):
it may be something that is nothing to do with what you're actually doing.
There might be a problem within your debt.
That's right.
So, yeah, so for example, you might have,
you might have been impacted by spam.
And one of the things that's really keen a lot of people don't realize is
is that you can't see a lot of the impact in your own email platform.
(14:44):
It's actually external reporting that can tell you if there's a problem.
So you can spend hours trying to fix things that are kind of beyond your viewpoints.
Yeah.
And it's the case of weighing up, you know,
how much is your time worse?
You know, if you're someone that say you make precious jewelry or you're creating designs
(15:07):
for your next line or you're a service provider, you know, whatever you're doing,
you don't want to be spending hours and hours.
I remember a client once sent to me, I'd spent, she had spent 10 hours
just creating one welcome email and it just, she was spending 10 hours a day
because she was learning the platform at the same time.
(15:29):
And that for me is way too much time.
That's not worth it.
It's not worth it.
I just have to pay so many a couple hundred dollars.
It's not worth it.
Yeah, it's not worth it.
And it's like you're having to learn a whole platform on your own.
And to be fair, like if you were on Mailer, like they're very intuitive and easy to use,
(15:50):
but as you, your business scales and as you want to do more complex things,
it becomes harder because you don't know how to
do these things efficiently.
You're learning and therefore you're slowing your business down and actually then
slowing your growth.
That's something that I kind of want to talk about because I think one thing that,
(16:13):
I don't know, I feel like we are as business and soners.
We're running our social media accounts and we're running our email marketing accounts.
Those are two very different things like to me.
It's one thing like social media to me is much easier for the average person to learn and manage.
(16:34):
There really isn't a lot of like legalities, like regulations, like you know,
like you know what to post and what not to post and what to do.
It's pretty straightforward.
Whereas an email marketing account is, I don't want to scare anyone, but it is pretty complex.
And you get to a certain point where there are a lot of laws to follow.
(16:56):
Like earlier on in this year, we had all of those updates with Google and Yahoo and we were
going into accounts and adding a DMR records to their DNS.
And like the average small business owner, if you're like, what's a DMR record?
What is a DNS?
Which I'm sure that's what you're thinking.
(17:16):
You don't know what that stuff is.
There's very complex stuff that comes with email marketing, and especially as you continue
to grow your account, it just gets even more complex.
It's a lot different than managing a social media account.
I think as a business owner, you could run your social media account like for the long haul
and like it's the same stuff.
You don't really have to worry about you know, learning too many skills like once you get it going.
(17:40):
With email marketing, you have to continue to be on top of the updates.
You have to continue to learn new skills.
And as it gets more complex and complicated like, you know, it requires more of your time.
And so I think a lot of times business owners will first and foremost,
outsource their social media because it's time consuming.
But so is email marketing.
(18:01):
And email marketing is even more complicated.
And it also drives more revenue and more sales.
To me, you should be outsourcing your email marketing well ahead of outsourcing or social media.
You can do your social media.
It comes a point where you will not be able to do your email marketing.
And that's just the fact.
Yeah, completely agree.
Angie, if you know, a small business owner is listening to this podcast,
(18:26):
like how do they know when is the right time to outsource?
I think that you need to really do a cost versus like benefit analysis as we kind of have here on
your sheet.
I think first and foremost, you need to understand
how much of your revenue is coming from email marketing currently.
(18:48):
And I think a lot of business owners don't even know that.
Yeah.
That can be as simple as setting up a Google Analytics account.
You know, that's free again, like an extra skill, something else you have to do.
But in order for you to really understand like, what is the revenue that's coming in from emails,
(19:08):
we need to have those stats.
So you need to gather that data and be very aware of how much revenue is coming in.
And then I want you to also, I would love for you to understand
in the past, you know, months or maybe even the past year, has that revenue from your emails gone up?
(19:31):
Has it gone down?
Like, what is the trend of your email marketing?
Email marketing should account, well, industry averages.
I don't know what you've heard.
To me, I hear anywhere from like 20% to 30% of your revenue should be coming from email marketing.
Is that what you hear?
Yeah, I mean, it can range like it could be, it can range even way higher than that.
(19:53):
Yeah, I've seen companies that have like started to get work with them in like 10%
and it depends.
One news, when you start to scale, your attribution models become more complicated.
But on average, yeah, I would say a good indication,
depending on your business as well, how much you do elsewhere, the email should be a big
(20:13):
part of your revenue.
And so you're going to know, you're going to get a good sense of what your total revenue is
and how much you're making through email.
And if you're not making 30%, then those are signs that there is a lot of revenue or a lot of money
that you are leaving on the table, I would say.
Yeah, exactly.
(20:34):
And you know, if you're a product-based business,
there are certain flows that you could set up that should be making you money while you sleep.
And these are things that, you know, there are ways to do that yourself,
but it's about knowing the best way to do that.
It's going to generate the most amount for you, but also engage your audience.
So there's a lot of balancing going on with when you outsource,
(21:00):
the person that's looking at your account is making,
or at least looking at different ways to approach things.
So, so yeah, the right time is, yeah, in effect, going to be once you've had a look at this data,
once you made that decision.
And then it's about looking at how you might want to start budgeting for help.
(21:20):
So there are different ways to get help.
You could have someone who is simply like a VA,
kind of for a small business owner, all the way up to a fully-fledged agency.
And it really depends on your budget and the kind of support you are looking for.
So if you want someone to write your emails and send a few newsletters out for you and maybe build
(21:47):
a few flows, and maybe is a free answer for you, I would say if you do go down the VA route,
just make sure they have experience in email marketing because there are lots of VA's that say they
know email, but I would just question them to say what have they done in the past, what platforms have
they worked with, and then you go all the way through to agencies. But in between that, you do get
(22:13):
consultancies like myself and Angie who actually experienced.
And we offer different kinds of services, so it might be just one of strategy call, it might be
you want a full audit, there are a number of ways you can work with someone, it doesn't have to be
on a retainer basis, although that could work really well for you if you just want to outsource.
(22:38):
I know definitely some clients come to me and say I just want to take this off my to-do list.
Whereas others may say I just need some help figuring out where I'm going wrong, and so I can get
back on track, and that's absolutely fine as well, there's no right or wrong here. It's just about
what is right for you, and actually recognizing, as we've said earlier, that it's affecting your
(23:02):
business by not taking action. Yeah, for sure, and it's also like your time, right? How much do you value
your time? How much time are you spending on this stuff? And is that time that you're spending on
this stuff actually resulting in dollars for your business? I'm right there with you, there is a
(23:22):
full range. You could pay someone, you know, you could pay a VA in the Philippines for like $7
an hour to help you just send the emails, make sure that they have, like Clara said, some experience
inside of your account because again, email accounts can be complex, and it's not like every Joe Schmo can
(23:44):
just come in and learn a brand new email account, it's going to take them time. So you either want to
budget for that time to train them or, you know, hire someone who already is specialized in that. And
one thing to keep in mind is, I mean, I feel strongly about this, you get what you pay for. So if you
(24:05):
have a lower budget, then just hire someone to put the templates together or to schedule the email,
or do like the really simple stuff. And then as you, you know, maybe free up more time and you're sending
more emails and you're making more money, then you can look at outsourcing to someone like me or
Clara who, you know, can give you strategy or, or, you know, it end up doing the whole thing. But we,
(24:31):
yeah, like Clara said, we also have like audits and strategy calls. But I will say that my clients who
actually get the best results and who see the highest return on investment do invest in just outsourcing
to us. I think like at the end of the day, that should be your goal is to one day like outsource it
(24:53):
completely. That's when you're going to be able to make the most money off of your email marketing
channel. That's what we see time and time again. Of course, there's going to be people out there who can
do it themselves and, you know, are able to make the money themselves kudos to you. But I still kind of
think like as a CEO, as a business owner, you know, is your time spent better elsewhere? Yeah. And
(25:16):
I completely agree. And one of the things to think about, let's say, budget is tight right now.
What I would do in as a small business owner is get someone in to help me simply send my
newsletter on a regular basis. Just get them out. Just get them out and keep that consistency going
(25:37):
so you're nurturing your audience or even making sales through that while you figure out the other
things at the very minimum. Don't not send anything particularly if you've got a list. I always find
that when people say to me, I've got a list of, you know, I've got a list of two or three hundred people
at least, but I haven't sent anything to them. It's six months. And I just think, what a shame you could
(25:57):
be. Yeah, you could be earning money from your list and your sat in procrastination and you're not
doing anything with it. So if you want to get results and you don't have time, then hire someone to come
in and, and actually, you know, we talked about this touching on mindset. This is about letting go
(26:19):
and letting someone into your business. And I know that feeling, there's, you know, trust that comes
into it and there's the kind of feeling that you're allowing someone to send something out on your
behalf, but you can determine all of that. You can sign off on each of the emails. You can give them
a tone of voice, document. Yeah. There's so much in your control, but you can be a collaboration still.
(26:43):
Yeah, but yet you are not doing the work. You're simply signing off. And then, you know, you can
work with your, your freelancer to say, right, when should I expect to see results in terms of
the performance and they can help you by sharing that with you? So it is scary letting someone into
(27:06):
your business. I've been there and I know exactly how it feels, but if you read any of the, the
kind of big business books out there, they'll tell you that outsourcing is the key to success
for your business. Yeah. There's no one that I know that is super successful that does everything
themselves. Like, can you think of anyone that literally sends their own emails? Does their own social
(27:30):
media at some point? And it's a good sign if you're ready to outsource because it means you're generating
some level of income to bring people in to help you. And you can determine what that looks like. It
doesn't have to be forever. You know, if you have this fear of committing to some working with someone
(27:51):
and, you know, understandably if you've had bad experiences, you can say, let's trial this for one
month or three months. Yeah. Yeah. Put a time limit on it. Yeah. Yeah. And if it's not working with
that one person, it doesn't, it probably just means that that person, like, wasn't a good fit for your
business or didn't have the skills that you needed them to have. You know, and you probably don't
(28:15):
know what skills you need in an email marketer, you know, to be honest. So it might take some trial
and error. And that's okay. I would say, you know, go through it. It's totally worth it to find your
email person because again, the return is just, you know, 36 to one, right? 36 dollars every one dollar
you spend on email marketing. Like, so if you're paying someone monthly for your email marketing,
(28:41):
you should, on average, get a return of 36 dollars for every one dollar you spend on them. Okay? So if
you're not getting that, there's somebody else who will be able to give you that because that's the
average. Yeah. And it's such an amazing start that people still to this day don't realize the impact
(29:01):
of that. And if, even if you're, even if you have a free platform, let's say you're paying for someone
to come in, look at what you're paying in versus the return you're making from email, that should,
they should, it should pay for them and then some. So I always get really excited when I do a strategy
call because I'm sharing things that people don't necessarily think they can do. And I think,
(29:26):
at the very minimum, as I've said before, get a newsletter going and then you can really start
to do some of the fun stuff around the flows, the automations and what have you. But the first
thing above all of this is making that decision and it's, it's not easy.
Letting anyone into your business is not easy, but one of the things I do recommend is getting,
(29:47):
well, first of all, do your research, look at who you're going to work with, you know,
get a sense of who they are on social media sign up to their email list.
See if they do their own emails. That's always a good sign. But then also think about
reputation and referrals as well. So there are multiple ways for people to help you. But as your
(30:12):
business starts to grow, you're going to need more sophisticated help. You're going to need people
that really understand strategy. And that's kind of work that Angie and I do. We love helping people.
You know, we also offer retained work as well. But it really depends on the client and the kind of
challenges they're facing. But really what we want to say here is don't be afraid to let go of this
(30:38):
and give it a chance to see what happens working with someone, what they can do. I think
if all that free time you'll have that. Yeah, yeah, because like we said in our experience with
the clients that do that with us, they see an increase in their sales, you know, like they do get a
return on investment and investing with us because email marketing again is still the number one
(31:01):
online sales channel for business owners. So if it's not for you, then something isn't working
and it might be time to outsource. And again, you can start very small. And the first thing that I would
do is create a budget, budget to hire someone to get people in and what can you get for that budget,
even if it's $500 for the month? Okay, what can I get for $500? You know, and see what you can,
(31:24):
you know, get some help with. So, let us know if you have any more questions about this. I know
some of this is clear as mud. It's like, when is it the best time? Typically, you know, that's up to you
what your stats are, what's going on in your business. But I would be working towards as quickly as you
can, working towards completely outsourcing this channel. It's only going to grow your business and
(31:46):
grow your sales even more, the more that you can do that. Absolutely. And this is one of the best ways
to grow your business. So why would you be trying to do it yourself when it's not your necessarily
or area of expertise? So this allows you this, this, this, the whole point of this podcast is to allow
you to let go of trying to learn about email. Learn this crazy new skill. Yeah.
(32:11):
Yeah. And this new skill that is absolutely possible if you have time. But most small business
owners don't. And therefore, you want to be focusing on what you do best and what you love. So
this is really a way for you to start thinking about how can I enable that? How can I make that
happen for me? And it's completely possible. Yes. All right. I think that's all we have for today.
(32:38):
If you guys have any more questions or comments, definitely let us know. And we will see you on the next
episode, right? Thank you guys. Thanks for listening. See you on the next episode. Bye.
(32:59):
You've just listened to females across the pond and beyond podcasts with your hosts, Clara and Angie.
If you like our content, don't forget to subscribe, rate and review us on the platform of your choice.
Is there something you want to hear about for our next episode? Email us at females across the pond
at gmail.com to let us know. Until next time.
(33:24):
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