Misfit Makers Ep.4: Breast Cancer, Survival, and Advocacy with Sara Johnson

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey there, you're listening to Fishnets and Fries, but before we dive in, I want to acknowledge that this podcast is being recorded on the unceded and traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples, past, present, and future.
.999As an uninvited settler on these lands, I'm committed to my ongoing journey of decolonization.
And I invite you to join me in this important work.

(00:22):
Hi, I'm Michelle Mateus, and this is your invitation.
To get messy, get real, and get into conversations that matter.
Whether you're here for the first time or coming back for a second.
.999Grab those fries and let's dig in. 8 00:00:36,529.365 --> 00:00:37,539.365 Hi everybody. 9 00:00:37,579.365 --> 00:00:41,239.365 Welcome to our fourth episode of Fishnets and Fries. 10 00:00:41,979.365 --> 00:00:50,749.365 I am Michele Mateus, your host, and I am joined today by Sarah, who is a 43 year old solo mom to a 16 year old. 11 00:00:51,409.365 --> 00:01:02,524.265 She is a fitness lover, a breast cancer survivor, and is currently living in Abbotsford, British Columbia on the unceded territory of the Stolomatskoye Sumas. 12 00:01:02,744.365 --> 00:01:05,844.365 and Kwantlen First Nations and the Nooksack Indian Tribe. 13 00:01:06,484.365 --> 00:01:15,714.365 She is fortunate to have recently started a new job, congratulations Sarah, which is fully remote, which is a double congratulations. 14 00:01:15,714.365 --> 00:01:20,144.365 Who doesn't want to work remotely? Actually, who wants to go back into an office? Right? No. 15 00:01:20,824.365 --> 00:01:25,464.365 And she absolutely loves that because she gets to hang out with her two dogs, which is also a bonus. 16 00:01:25,964.365 --> 00:01:31,884.364 And Sarah enjoys hiking, rain or shine and any other adventure. 17 00:01:31,884.365 --> 00:01:34,834.365 And I suspect your dogs are always by your side when you're doing that. 18 00:01:34,958.365 --> 00:01:35,668.365 Oh yes. 19 00:01:36,644.365 --> 00:01:37,994.364 Welcome, Sarah. 20 00:01:38,28.365 --> 00:01:40,664.365 Thank So glad to have you here today. 21 00:01:40,674.365 --> 00:01:43,343.365 How are you doing today, by the way? I'm pretty good. 22 00:01:43,343.365 --> 00:01:45,393.365 I'm a little, I'm a little exhausted. 23 00:01:45,393.365 --> 00:01:57,833.364 It's been a busy week with basketball provincials and, I haven't really used my brain this much in a long time with a new job, so my brain is getting fit again. 24 00:02:00,319.365 --> 00:02:11,179.364 Yeah, it's sometimes it's like after a vacation, right? Or something, it's just like in that relaxation mode, or we're thinking about other things and we have to use our executive functioning in different ways. 25 00:02:11,189.365 --> 00:02:12,569.365 I'm, I'm working that muscle. 26 00:02:12,679.365 --> 00:02:19,799.365 I'm working okay, well, it's okay if, you know, fishnets and fries is all about embracing the messy, Yeah. 27 00:02:19,850.364 --> 00:02:21,240.364 the imperfections of life. 28 00:02:21,240.364 --> 00:02:24,310.364 So your brain is welcome here. 29 00:02:24,320.364 --> 00:02:26,370.364 However, it manages to show up today. 30 00:02:26,609.365 --> 00:02:27,119.365 Perfect. 31 00:02:28,0.365 --> 00:02:37,119.365 So first of all, I want to start off by asking you what's your favorite way to have fries and do you have a favorite place or do you make your own? I do actually. 32 00:02:37,169.365 --> 00:02:39,659.365 And do? well, I don't make my own. 33 00:02:39,669.365 --> 00:02:40,10.364 I Oh. 34 00:02:40,619.364 --> 00:02:41,979.365 I have a favorite place. 35 00:02:42,449.364 --> 00:02:44,869.365 And I was thinking of this recently. 36 00:02:44,929.364 --> 00:02:51,369.365 So I used to live in New Westminster and I lived there for a few years and there is a place that I used to live. 37 00:02:51,529.365 --> 00:02:55,469.365 pretty much above on a high rise building and it's called Burger Heaven. 38 00:02:55,859.365 --> 00:02:59,89.365 And if you haven't been to Burger Heaven you do have to go. 39 00:02:59,89.365 --> 00:03:04,419.365 They do have vegetarian and vegan options but they have these wedge fries and they are to die for. 40 00:03:04,779.365 --> 00:03:11,479.364 And in my 20s, when I lived there there were my hangover cure. 41 00:03:12,279.364 --> 00:03:21,829.363 So I would, I kind of like get my pajamas and kind of like go down the elevator and just go into there and just eat some wedge fries and they're amazing. 42 00:03:23,350.363 --> 00:03:23,730.363 Okay. 43 00:03:23,770.363 --> 00:03:30,290.365 I'm not that far from New West, so I'm definitely going to have to go visit that place. 44 00:03:30,449.365 --> 00:03:37,599.364 It's haven't had wedge fries and do they have like special toppings they put on? Are you a ketchup? Like you're like wedge. 45 00:03:37,898.363 --> 00:03:37,998.363 ketchup. 46 00:03:38,938.363 --> 00:03:40,608.364 Ketchup and malt vinegar. 47 00:03:40,648.364 --> 00:03:42,399.364 Malt vinegar is my Now I'm hungry. 48 00:03:42,399.364 --> 00:03:45,73.364 I came home from the gym So good. 49 00:03:45,99.363 --> 00:03:48,79.363 do this interview and I'm like, every day is a good day for fries. 50 00:03:48,639.362 --> 00:03:49,159.362 Okay. 51 00:03:49,169.363 --> 00:03:54,739.363 So Sarah, as I said in the introduction, we know that you are a breast cancer survivor. 52 00:03:55,159.363 --> 00:03:58,729.363 I'm curious if you remember the moment you found out you had cancer. 53 00:03:59,523.363 --> 00:04:05,543.362 Yeah, I think everyone who has had cancer remembers that moment. 54 00:04:06,413.363 --> 00:04:12,113.362 So I was actually it was quite a long process before I was diagnosed. 55 00:04:12,153.361 --> 00:04:22,19.3615 There was about a six week period from when I found the lump to when I was actually diagnosed Six weeks, did you just say? Six weeks to interrupt. 56 00:04:22,19.3615 --> 00:04:23,359.361 I was like, wow, six weeks. 57 00:04:23,439.361 --> 00:04:24,179.362 Mm hmm. 58 00:04:24,528.362 --> 00:04:33,178.362 and then included multiple biopsies and the waiting game is at the worst. 59 00:04:33,198.362 --> 00:04:43,388.362 So it was, I was on my way to work in the morning and obviously the only thing that I can think of is what was. 60 00:04:43,603.362 --> 00:04:45,133.362 the result of the biopsy. 61 00:04:45,553.362 --> 00:04:58,183.362 So I decided to phone my doctor's office at the time and I asked to speak with the doctor and he came on the phone and abruptly said, the hospital didn't call you, no one called you. 62 00:04:58,953.362 --> 00:05:01,673.362 And I was like no, that's your job. 63 00:05:04,59.363 --> 00:05:08,753.363 And abruptly, like, that's like, wow, hi, how's it going today? exactly. 64 00:05:09,173.363 --> 00:05:11,943.363 And then he just said flat out yeah, it's cancer. 65 00:05:12,203.363 --> 00:05:21,193.363 And I pulled over into the Starbucks parking lot, which is down the street from where I was working at the time. 66 00:05:21,693.363 --> 00:05:41,863.363 And I think I sat there, I don't even know, for probably a good 20 minutes just, just sitting there, just thinking what's going to happen, right? Like, it's, yeah, the moment, even though in my heart I kind of knew that you still kind of hold on to some kind of hope Oh yeah, something else. 67 00:05:43,969.363 --> 00:05:44,699.363 absolutely. 68 00:05:44,719.363 --> 00:05:48,59.363 Why, why wouldn't you? You know, it's like the big dreaded C. 69 00:05:48,59.363 --> 00:05:49,649.363 We don't want to be like, oh yeah, okay, cool. 70 00:05:50,213.362 --> 00:05:51,469.363 Yeah, It's not usually. 71 00:05:52,493.362 --> 00:05:53,133.362 We'll get on that. 72 00:05:53,133.362 --> 00:05:53,723.362 Thanks, Doc. 73 00:05:54,953.362 --> 00:05:57,609.363 Oh And bedside manner. 74 00:05:57,949.363 --> 00:06:02,279.363 I think I told you before, I have photographed Sarah, so we have met in person. 75 00:06:02,689.363 --> 00:06:11,859.364 My mom died of breast cancer and I remember the doctor who gave her, her diagnosis and I was in the room with my grandmother and aunts. 76 00:06:12,99.364 --> 00:06:14,134.264 This was actually the second doctor because we went for. 77 00:06:16,134.364 --> 00:06:17,204.364 We wanted a second opinion. 78 00:06:17,204.364 --> 00:06:20,154.364 And he was just very much like, hi, you have cancer. 79 00:06:20,524.364 --> 00:06:27,14.364 So here's what, so like, I'm laughing now, but I was not laughing then. 80 00:06:27,24.363 --> 00:06:27,704.364 Like, it was like. 81 00:06:30,269.364 --> 00:06:31,663.363 Oh Oh, okay. 82 00:06:31,663.463 --> 00:06:33,979.364 Oh, she also had stage four. 83 00:06:33,979.364 --> 00:06:36,999.364 So it was like, oh, he's like, okay, yeah. 84 00:06:37,89.364 --> 00:06:41,689.363 And he literally said, and I don't know if this was a good, bad or bad thing. 85 00:06:41,689.364 --> 00:06:44,909.364 He was like, so you're most likely going to die within the next six months. 86 00:06:45,259.363 --> 00:06:52,969.364 And so you're going to want to start to put things into, I can't remember, I can't remember preparation or action. 87 00:06:52,969.364 --> 00:06:55,943.364 I can't remember what he said then, but it was like, Oh my goodness. 88 00:06:57,589.364 --> 00:07:05,564.364 oh, Like, And like, I know it's so sad. 89 00:07:05,564.364 --> 00:07:05,984.364 Okay. 90 00:07:05,984.364 --> 00:07:08,994.364 So you're in the parking lot, you're getting that news, you're sitting there. 91 00:07:09,14.364 --> 00:07:30,609.363 And then, then what happened? I, I phoned my brother because my brother and I are really close and he was, you know, touching base and, and waiting just as anxiously And then I called my parents and I just. 92 00:07:31,504.363 --> 00:07:40,694.3625 Well, my work, I said, I'm not coming in as obviously, obviously yeah, that I, that I did too, but that was a text message. 93 00:07:40,694.3625 --> 00:07:43,770.363 I didn't, I didn't give him a call, but I that's fine. 94 00:07:43,944.362 --> 00:07:46,464.362 and then I decided I'm just going to drive back home. 95 00:07:46,464.362 --> 00:07:48,224.362 And at the time I lived in Maple Ridge. 96 00:07:48,234.363 --> 00:07:51,424.363 And so this place was in Aldergrove. 97 00:07:51,434.363 --> 00:07:53,334.363 So I had about, you know, 45 minutes. 98 00:07:54,44.363 --> 00:08:05,234.363 Drive all the way home, which I honestly don't even remember driving home which is just one of those moments, I guess I was in a daze and maybe shouldn't have been driving at the moment, but I did get home safely. 99 00:08:05,574.362 --> 00:08:07,434.362 And yeah, that was my day. 100 00:08:07,850.361 --> 00:08:12,124.361 And Sara, how old were you at that time when you got that news? years old. 101 00:08:12,260.362 --> 00:08:12,820.362 39. 102 00:08:12,890.362 --> 00:08:13,210.362 Okay. 103 00:08:14,810.362 --> 00:08:15,220.362 Yeah. 104 00:08:15,920.362 --> 00:08:16,180.362 Wow. 105 00:08:16,180.362 --> 00:08:19,490.362 I'm just gonna sit with that for a minute. 106 00:08:19,500.362 --> 00:08:20,430.361 That's that's. 107 00:08:21,195.362 --> 00:08:24,345.362 Very, my mom was very close to that same age. 108 00:08:24,345.362 --> 00:08:36,464.362 So yeah, it's, it's young, It is, and unfortunately with, the Mammograms you can't self refer until you're 40 years old. 109 00:08:36,585.362 --> 00:08:37,165.362 right. 110 00:08:37,644.362 --> 00:08:43,344.361 I was not even thinking about that at that time in my life. 111 00:08:43,404.362 --> 00:08:45,214.362 That hadn't even crossed my mind. 112 00:08:45,234.362 --> 00:08:50,224.362 And I wasn't, sadly, I was not performing breast exams. 113 00:08:50,614.361 --> 00:08:53,134.361 I feel like I didn't have the education. 114 00:08:53,164.361 --> 00:08:56,974.361 I lacked in, in all of that education and an awareness. 115 00:08:58,164.361 --> 00:09:00,384.361 Because, you know, I'm thinking I'm going to be 40 soon. 116 00:09:00,394.361 --> 00:09:13,485.36 That's when it starts, right? Yeah, that narrative really does need to change, doesn't it? Because I recently photographed someone another person who is moving through all of this right now. 117 00:09:13,535.361 --> 00:09:17,605.36 And yeah, same, never really thought, thought about it. 118 00:09:17,605.36 --> 00:09:19,375.36 You know, I think that's such a common thing. 119 00:09:19,375.361 --> 00:09:22,145.361 It's like, we're so, Hey, you're going to start this at 40. 120 00:09:22,175.361 --> 00:09:25,295.361 And so we're, we're not prepared to think about. 121 00:09:26,165.361 --> 00:09:29,114.361 Like, that's really problematic, isn't it? It really is. 122 00:09:29,164.361 --> 00:09:29,934.361 It really is. 123 00:09:29,984.361 --> 00:09:45,74.36 And you know, into, we call it cancer land and, you know, in the society, in the, in the community that, is there, lovely, lovely, lovely community of the most amazing people that you'll ever meet. 124 00:09:45,94.36 --> 00:09:49,674.36 And, on Instagram specifically is where I found my community. 125 00:09:49,714.36 --> 00:09:53,54.26 I've been in, in Cancerland since 2021. 126 00:09:53,54.36 --> 00:09:57,344.36 And sadly I have also lost a lot of people, a lot of friends. 127 00:09:57,944.359 --> 00:10:01,14.359 And most of them were under the age of 40. 128 00:10:01,154.359 --> 00:10:03,104.359 So things do need to shift. 129 00:10:05,730.359 --> 00:10:07,800.359 I just got goosebumps, and I might cry. 130 00:10:09,0.359 --> 00:10:13,60.359 Our tears are so welcome here. 131 00:10:14,280.359 --> 00:10:27,380.358 Yeah, I think this is, I don't know, what, what do you think it is? Do you think it's like, we don't want to think, are we avoiding it? Is it that we're not being given the proper information? I'm thinking about a little girl at my son's school when he was in school. 132 00:10:27,870.358 --> 00:10:37,490.359 She was six and the, you know, she passed away of cancer and that's so unfortunate and the school like planted a tree in her honor. 133 00:10:37,490.359 --> 00:10:39,470.359 But I think, yeah, it's really weird ageism. 134 00:10:40,610.359 --> 00:10:43,930.359 Like, I'm just thinking about that right now as we're talking, I wasn't thinking about that before. 135 00:10:43,930.359 --> 00:10:46,50.359 But there's this weird ageism. 136 00:10:46,60.359 --> 00:10:52,70.358 Is that something that you've also experienced in, as you say, in Cancerland within your, that community? Mm hmm. 137 00:10:52,559.359 --> 00:10:53,379.359 Absolutely. 138 00:10:53,479.359 --> 00:10:55,269.359 The ageism for sure. 139 00:10:55,639.359 --> 00:11:04,509.359 I went when I went in specifically when I went into ask for a diagnostic mammogram because I had found a hard area. 140 00:11:05,399.358 --> 00:11:09,639.359 And then also, you know, there was a dimpling that I noticed in my right breast. 141 00:11:09,750.359 --> 00:11:10,220.3585 dimpling. 142 00:11:10,220.3585 --> 00:11:12,180.359 Can you talk a little bit? What is that? I don't even know. 143 00:11:12,399.359 --> 00:11:12,849.359 Yeah. 144 00:11:12,849.359 --> 00:11:15,980.359 So just like it looks like a dimple where Mm. 145 00:11:16,169.359 --> 00:11:17,729.359 is being pulled inwards. 146 00:11:18,159.359 --> 00:11:30,725.359 And it's something that I hadn't noticed before, I was in this, especially as a solo mom,, go to work, come home make dinner, go to the gym, come back, shower, go to Mm hmm. 147 00:11:30,819.358 --> 00:11:33,499.358 rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat every day. 148 00:11:33,919.358 --> 00:11:43,804.358 I feel like As much as I thought I was in tune with my body with my fitness and everything else, I wasn't actually fully in tune with my body. 149 00:11:43,890.358 --> 00:11:44,110.358 Mm. 150 00:11:44,714.358 --> 00:11:45,514.358 Paying attention. 151 00:11:46,234.358 --> 00:11:53,729.258 And I was getting ready for the shower one day, pulled off my bra, and I just happened to look and I was like, weird. 152 00:11:54,409.358 --> 00:11:56,929.358 is that? I've never had a dimple on my breast before. 153 00:11:57,289.358 --> 00:12:05,129.358 Like, what is that? At which I started feeling around and I was like, I swear to God, this was not hard before. 154 00:12:05,139.358 --> 00:12:12,349.358 Like, my whole upper call it the upper right quadrant, and it was hard as a rock, and I hadn't noticed. 155 00:12:12,689.358 --> 00:12:25,639.258 And I was really small, like I was maybe, maybe a small bee, to be generous, like they were not, and they were deflated from breastfeeding and all that stuff, you know? So I was shocked that I hadn't noticed it before. 156 00:12:25,989.358 --> 00:12:29,39.358 But I just wasn't paying attention. 157 00:12:30,109.358 --> 00:12:39,889.357 and when I went in for the mammogram I was met with this doctor, a female doctor, and she's like, oh, what are you here for? And I said, well, I think you need a mammogram. 158 00:12:40,159.357 --> 00:12:41,299.358 There's something wrong. 159 00:12:41,799.358 --> 00:12:47,279.358 And I was met with a attitude of, she goes, well, I'll be the judge of that. 160 00:12:47,905.358 --> 00:12:50,499.358 what? yeah, like I was taking it back. 161 00:12:50,499.358 --> 00:12:51,629.358 I was like, okay. 162 00:12:52,114.358 --> 00:12:54,764.358 Like, okay, Who says, Yeah. 163 00:12:54,825.358 --> 00:12:59,445.358 oh my gosh, this is, I like, again, it's not, it's like this is one of my stress responses. 164 00:12:59,445.358 --> 00:12:59,865.358 Everybody. 165 00:12:59,865.358 --> 00:13:07,65.358 I laugh because I'm like, what? Like, you're just like, what? Who says that to someone? I'll be like, it's my body. 166 00:13:07,65.358 --> 00:13:08,145.358 Thank you very much. 167 00:13:08,194.358 --> 00:13:09,164.358 Exactly. 168 00:13:09,164.358 --> 00:13:10,104.3575 I was taken aback. 169 00:13:10,104.3575 --> 00:13:16,974.358 And then, I tell you, her tune definitely changed when she started a physical examination. 170 00:13:17,174.36 --> 00:13:18,875.359 So, Mm. 171 00:13:19,644.359 --> 00:13:20,964.358 she was feeling under my armpit. 172 00:13:22,424.359 --> 00:13:40,44.359 I hadn't felt under my armpit because again, I wasn't educated at the time, about the signs to look for and I could feel her feeling under my armpit and I could feel her pushing around a lymph node and I could feel that there was a hard lymph node. 173 00:13:40,694.359 --> 00:13:44,654.359 And then I saw her face completely change. 174 00:13:44,714.359 --> 00:13:52,199.359 Like she did a 180 and she, as soon as she felt it, she's like, a family history? Asking me all these questions. 175 00:13:52,249.359 --> 00:13:59,259.359 And to tell you, like, that's when I, I think I just knew before I was actually diagnosed. 176 00:13:59,549.358 --> 00:14:01,549.358 And that's when I went down the rabbit hole of Dr. 177 00:14:01,549.358 --> 00:14:05,385.358 Google, which I definitely do not recommend to anybody ever, Been there. 178 00:14:05,485.358 --> 00:14:07,305.358 I think many of our listeners can relate. 179 00:14:07,654.358 --> 00:14:08,674.358 absolutely. 180 00:14:08,684.358 --> 00:14:11,64.358 It was not a great idea. 181 00:14:11,94.358 --> 00:14:15,534.358 And also another thing I do not recommend is Facebook groups. 182 00:14:15,995.358 --> 00:14:16,895.358 Mm. 183 00:14:17,774.358 --> 00:14:24,824.358 so I did jump into before I found my community on Instagram, I jumped into some Facebook groups on on breast cancer. 184 00:14:24,824.358 --> 00:14:31,174.356 And I tell you, the doom and gloom really put my, my brain over the edge. 185 00:14:31,204.357 --> 00:14:35,94.357 And it was, it was not a good time for my mental health. 186 00:14:35,975.357 --> 00:14:42,894.357 Is this while you were still in the process of finding out or after you found out and then you jumped into the groups? No, this was before., 187 00:14:42,954.357 --> 00:14:45,929.357 I'm the type of person where it I need to know. 188 00:14:45,999.357 --> 00:14:46,719.357 I need to know. 189 00:14:46,729.357 --> 00:14:48,519.357 I need to know what's going to happen. 190 00:14:48,549.357 --> 00:14:50,759.357 I don't like sitting in the unknown. 191 00:14:51,99.357 --> 00:14:53,279.356 Cancer's really taught me how to do that. 192 00:14:53,599.357 --> 00:14:56,169.357 And I like to say I'm getting better at that. 193 00:14:56,529.358 --> 00:14:59,919.358 But the unknown has always been a very scary place for me. 194 00:15:00,229.358 --> 00:15:18,979.358 And so the further you go and deeper you go into the into the world of, cancer online without being empowered with the right knowledge of your own body and what's going on with you, it's, it's definitely, not a safe space for, for your mental health. 195 00:15:19,725.359 --> 00:15:30,959.259 mm-hmm And so how did you find your safe space? I know you mentioned Instagram, how did that all unfold for you? So it didn't actually unfold until I was. 196 00:15:31,319.359 --> 00:15:36,909.359 diagnosed and when I knew, okay, this is what I'm facing, it's cancer. 197 00:15:37,329.359 --> 00:15:48,484.359 That's when I kind of jumped into Instagram and I actually, I came across A story of someone that I was following at the time. 198 00:15:49,514.359 --> 00:15:58,394.359 I don't recall who it was, but it was a story of a GoFundMe for a local woman and her name was Brianne I might cry too. 199 00:15:58,835.359 --> 00:15:59,525.359 Yeah, that's okay. 200 00:15:59,525.359 --> 00:16:06,644.358 Your tears are welcome here she had a stage four breast cancer she was 36 at the time. 201 00:16:06,914.358 --> 00:16:11,234.357 And she had a young boy who was three years old. 202 00:16:11,284.357 --> 00:16:22,594.358 And I just somehow ended up following her and she was the first person that I had met who was a breast cancer patient as well. 203 00:16:22,654.358 --> 00:16:26,704.358 And she sadly died right when I was finishing my active treatment. 204 00:16:27,194.358 --> 00:16:30,184.359 But that's kind of what started the ball rolling. 205 00:16:30,834.359 --> 00:16:40,484.359 And from there, you just follow people who follow them and your, your community grows and grows and grows because they're just the loveliest people in the world. 206 00:16:40,484.459 --> 00:16:42,115.359 Mm Yeah. 207 00:16:42,115.359 --> 00:16:44,275.359 It's so interesting how that community. 208 00:16:45,210.359 --> 00:16:48,190.359 It's different in one space versus another space. 209 00:16:48,220.359 --> 00:16:54,140.359 And community is so important as we're moving through things. 210 00:16:54,160.358 --> 00:16:56,140.358 Cause we need that, right? We need that hope. 211 00:16:56,150.358 --> 00:16:57,570.358 We need that community. 212 00:16:57,570.358 --> 00:16:59,20.358 We need that support. 213 00:16:59,954.359 --> 00:17:00,774.358 We really do. 214 00:17:00,784.359 --> 00:17:01,544.358 We really do. 215 00:17:01,544.359 --> 00:17:05,214.359 And honestly, I don't think I would have been able to get through everything. 216 00:17:05,644.359 --> 00:17:16,480.358 Without them, without those people, and I've been fortunate enough to have met a few of them along the way at different retreats and different travels Wow. 217 00:17:16,480.358 --> 00:17:17,580.358 That's so nice. 218 00:17:17,954.359 --> 00:17:19,404.359 been, it's been really good. 219 00:17:19,414.359 --> 00:17:22,894.358 So, you forge lifelong friendships along the way. 220 00:17:23,269.359 --> 00:17:41,969.359 Which sadly does come with the flip side, too, of, you know, getting the news that someone just got that phone call, the one, the phone call that we all dread that, you know, it's returned and we're talking about the club and often we talk about the cancer club or the breast cancers just specifically as, worst club, best members. 221 00:17:42,455.358 --> 00:17:45,739.359 Oh, and it's true. 222 00:17:45,769.359 --> 00:17:49,479.358 I mean, I, we're just, we're just there for each other. 223 00:17:49,509.358 --> 00:17:57,579.359 Like you're like, you can probably also with you can relate that unless you've. 224 00:17:57,814.359 --> 00:17:59,834.359 You've really gone through it or you're going through it. 225 00:17:59,854.359 --> 00:18:02,64.359 It's hard to really relate to other people. 226 00:18:02,364.359 --> 00:18:05,984.359 You know, you find that community of the people that get it. 227 00:18:06,14.359 --> 00:18:07,524.359 They get it completely. 228 00:18:07,804.359 --> 00:18:10,444.357 It's not just, someone that says, Oh yeah, I totally get it. 229 00:18:10,724.358 --> 00:18:19,944.358 I knew somebody who had this thing that did this thing, whose cousin's friend's dogs or whatever, you know? Like it's, if someone gets it, they get you. 230 00:18:19,984.358 --> 00:18:24,104.358 I feel like people just want to give their sympathy and you're like, I don't need that. 231 00:18:24,174.357 --> 00:18:26,998.358 Did you find that too? Oh, absolutely. 232 00:18:27,38.358 --> 00:18:27,818.358 Absolutely. 233 00:18:28,108.358 --> 00:18:32,348.358 And honestly it's, not so much sympathy. 234 00:18:32,368.358 --> 00:18:35,288.358 Like you do, you get those sad looks and the, Oh, I'm so sorry. 235 00:18:35,698.358 --> 00:18:36,338.358 A lot. 236 00:18:36,828.358 --> 00:18:39,558.358 But it's the, Oh, I get it. 237 00:18:39,608.358 --> 00:18:40,168.358 I get it. 238 00:18:40,168.358 --> 00:18:54,118.358 You know, my, my aunt's cousin died of cancer and people, I know they're well meaning and I've gotten to the point in my cancer journey, which I actually hate the term journey, but I don't know how else to really, to explain it. 239 00:18:54,634.358 --> 00:18:55,734.3575 I'm also, I'm there with you. 240 00:18:55,734.3575 --> 00:18:58,424.357 I'm like, okay, is there another word we can use for that? Yeah. 241 00:18:58,688.358 --> 00:19:00,138.358 journey should be a fun thing. 242 00:19:00,148.358 --> 00:19:23,518.359 It's there's nothing like you're going somewhere exciting and an adventure So people I think people really try hard it makes people uncomfortable they hear the word cancer and it's like the old dreaded sewer that no one still kind of wants to talk about, but we have to talk about it because if, we don't talk about it, the awareness is not where it should be. 243 00:19:23,558.359 --> 00:19:26,938.359 And that's why I, I talk so much about it. 244 00:19:27,48.359 --> 00:19:35,3.359 And I, I threw, even threw out my treatments and everything yeah, that brought me to the advocacy world. 245 00:19:36,223.359 --> 00:19:45,483.358 and for me, it's not only therapeutic to talk about it, but educating other people is really important to me. 246 00:19:46,624.359 --> 00:19:47,984.359 Good for you for doing that, Sarah. 247 00:19:48,24.359 --> 00:19:52,804.358 And I felt the same when I got diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, I'm like, okay, I want to share. 248 00:19:52,834.359 --> 00:19:53,624.359 I want to share. 249 00:19:53,944.359 --> 00:20:05,594.359 It can be cathartic, right? It like, I, I wanted to share what I was moving through and I know what everyone is moving through with whatever illness, it, it still manifests differently in each one of us. 250 00:20:05,604.359 --> 00:20:11,384.358 And just like you found hope in that woman sharing her story online. 251 00:20:11,604.359 --> 00:20:33,664.3575 Did you say her name was Brianne? Yeah, this is what we can offer too when we share, and this is a big part of why I wanted to start this podcast is that I had so many wonderful conversations here in my studio with the people that I photograph and my friends, we need to be sharing that because I don't think, yeah, there's like the big C, right. 252 00:20:33,664.3575 --> 00:20:34,874.358 And people are scared of it. 253 00:20:34,874.358 --> 00:20:34,974.358 But. 254 00:20:35,934.358 --> 00:20:39,94.358 I can tell you, I think that we're just all scared of our own mortality. 255 00:20:39,144.358 --> 00:20:43,904.358 And so when someone shares something, I think something else stirs inside of people. 256 00:20:43,954.358 --> 00:20:54,114.358 Sarah is like nodding her head as I'm saying this, because this has been my experience that I think it really stirs fear. 257 00:20:54,914.358 --> 00:20:58,634.358 And we don't talk about our own mortalities very often. 258 00:20:58,634.358 --> 00:21:03,834.358 And it's, it's like death and taxes are the thing that we can all expect out of life. 259 00:21:04,194.358 --> 00:21:13,384.359 yeah, if we were all just talking more openly and curiously with compassion and empathy, but not like for me, sympathy always just goes into like, Oh, you poor you. 260 00:21:13,384.359 --> 00:21:15,569.359 And it's like, Yeah, I know. 261 00:21:15,619.359 --> 00:21:15,939.359 I know. 262 00:21:15,939.359 --> 00:21:16,269.359 Thanks. 263 00:21:18,188.359 --> 00:21:19,369.359 Yeah, Thanks. 264 00:21:19,488.359 --> 00:21:19,778.359 yeah. 265 00:21:19,839.359 --> 00:21:38,733.36 You know, so it's, it's interesting, maybe if we could talk about all of these things that potentially can impact us, right? I that one phrase that I hear very often is, I can't even imagine, and part of me wants to say, well, maybe just try. 266 00:21:39,33.36 --> 00:21:43,523.36 Like, if you just try to imagine maybe. 267 00:21:44,333.36 --> 00:21:50,969.359 can kind of understand, hear that expression a lot too, for lots of different reasons. 268 00:21:52,344.36 --> 00:21:52,864.36 Often. 269 00:21:53,13.36 --> 00:21:57,774.36 to imagine why not? I love that invitation. 270 00:21:57,844.36 --> 00:21:59,154.36 I think that's beautiful. 271 00:22:02,14.36 --> 00:22:02,754.36 I'm feeling away. 272 00:22:02,764.36 --> 00:22:08,464.358 I don't know if I told you and I did share this on Instagram, but I had a breast cancer scare right before Christmas. 273 00:22:08,464.359 --> 00:22:14,954.358 So this is all very raw and I'm clear and clean, but yeah, as I was waiting for that phone call because of my mom and my family history. 274 00:22:14,964.358 --> 00:22:29,334.3575 It was terrifying to be in that waiting zone and yes, as I shared, I think it was also really hard for people to receive that because they know like my mom's story because I talk about it so often. 275 00:22:29,334.3575 --> 00:22:34,204.358 So yeah, I love this idea of like, just imagine what I might be moving through. 276 00:22:35,413.358 --> 00:22:36,574.258 Yeah, yeah, it it. 277 00:22:36,743.358 --> 00:22:36,963.358 help. 278 00:22:37,714.358 --> 00:22:39,664.358 Yeah, thanks for sharing that. 279 00:22:39,884.358 --> 00:22:40,534.358 I love that. 280 00:22:41,214.358 --> 00:22:46,494.358 Sarah, we know that obviously, it's not fun going through cancer treatment. 281 00:22:46,754.358 --> 00:22:52,463.357 Can you tell us a little bit about what it was like for you as you moved through your treatment? Absolutely. 282 00:22:52,603.358 --> 00:22:57,503.357 So everything kind of happened really, really quickly for me, which I'm grateful for. 283 00:22:58,303.358 --> 00:23:03,823.358 Because, you know, I got the care that I needed quickly I was diagnosed at stage three. 284 00:23:04,438.358 --> 00:23:08,528.358 So it already spread to my auxiliary lymph nodes under my armpit. 285 00:23:08,818.358 --> 00:23:11,578.358 And at the time I had a biopsy on one node. 286 00:23:11,578.358 --> 00:23:13,928.357 So we knew it was in at least one. 287 00:23:14,528.358 --> 00:23:24,388.358 But the most terrifying part, I think, was at the beginning you know, you're diagnosed the biopsy's confirmed that it's cancer, they give you the type, the subtype, all that. 288 00:23:24,408.357 --> 00:23:28,158.358 A lot of people probably, maybe your listeners may not be aware to that. 289 00:23:29,23.358 --> 00:23:31,233.358 cancer is not just one type. 290 00:23:31,323.358 --> 00:23:32,953.358 It's, there's multiple different subtypes. 291 00:23:32,953.458 --> 00:23:49,268.409 And the type that I was diagnosed is invasive lobular carcinoma, invasive, meaning it had spread from its original spot lobular, meaning that it had started in the lobules of the breast. 292 00:23:49,678.409 --> 00:23:50,458.409 So your breast is. 293 00:23:50,803.409 --> 00:23:55,943.409 made up of lobules and ducts, and the lobules is where it had started. 294 00:23:56,153.409 --> 00:23:56,803.409 Is cancer. 295 00:23:57,93.409 --> 00:24:04,463.409 And so that itself was a little terrifying because the lobular part of it is rare. 296 00:24:04,773.41 --> 00:24:08,863.411 I think it makes up between 10 and 15 percent of all breast cancer diagnosis. 297 00:24:09,573.411 --> 00:24:15,113.411 And so the research on that type of cancer is not where it should be. 298 00:24:15,423.411 --> 00:24:21,273.411 So everything is treated the same as if it was ductal carcinoma and ductal is the most common type. 299 00:24:21,653.412 --> 00:24:22,223.412 And. 300 00:24:22,963.412 --> 00:24:32,663.413 So that part to me was pretty terrifying just not knowing that the knowledge and the research wasn't quite where it should be in this day and age. 301 00:24:33,13.413 --> 00:24:39,563.414 And then also going for full body scans just to make sure that it hadn't spread to other parts of my body. 302 00:24:39,788.414 --> 00:24:42,588.414 So thankfully that those came back clear. 303 00:24:42,978.414 --> 00:24:47,978.413 I do actually remember the day that I went in for those results for the scans. 304 00:24:48,688.414 --> 00:24:54,748.413 And when the doctor told me that they were clear, it, I just broke down. 305 00:24:54,868.413 --> 00:24:55,778.414 Like it was. 306 00:24:56,513.414 --> 00:25:10,383.414 It was like the biggest relief that was lifted off of my shoulders and which sounds funny because I was still facing stage three cancer, but I knew at that time that at least I did have a chance of surviving this. 307 00:25:11,273.414 --> 00:25:12,813.413 It was also 2021. 308 00:25:12,823.413 --> 00:25:17,633.414 So if you remember a little thing, COVID, yeah, remember a little thing called COVID. 309 00:25:19,193.414 --> 00:25:19,853.414 Yeah. 310 00:25:19,873.414 --> 00:25:27,723.413 So that kind of put this added layer on top of a cancer diagnosis and going through treatment. 311 00:25:27,753.414 --> 00:25:38,743.414 And I knew that I was facing, the first thing I was facing was chemotherapy and That was terrifying to me because chemotherapy just ruins your immune system. 312 00:25:38,813.414 --> 00:25:42,819.314 You're so susceptible to everything, Mm hmm. 313 00:25:42,863.413 --> 00:25:50,993.414 So the first thing I did before I started chemotherapy, a week before, thankfully, the, COVID vaccine was out. 314 00:25:51,3.414 --> 00:25:58,263.414 So I got that immediately to try to see if I can protect myself as, as much as I could before I started chemo. 315 00:25:59,803.414 --> 00:26:02,423.413 and chemo was. 316 00:26:03,803.414 --> 00:26:04,383.414 It was hard. 317 00:26:04,423.414 --> 00:26:05,713.414 It was really, really hard. 318 00:26:05,813.414 --> 00:26:07,993.414 You know, my body handled it fairly well. 319 00:26:08,3.414 --> 00:26:16,383.414 Thankfully, I was able to still kind of exercise, you know, albeit at a, you know, a lower intensity for the most part. 320 00:26:16,733.413 --> 00:26:18,173.413 But it was really hard. 321 00:26:18,183.413 --> 00:26:19,453.413 It was hard going in there. 322 00:26:19,453.413 --> 00:26:20,653.413 I went every two weeks. 323 00:26:21,13.413 --> 00:26:29,173.412 I would be there for you know, four to six hours and I did I did make a couple friends. 324 00:26:29,193.413 --> 00:26:38,553.313 You know, often you would walk in and you just get, you know, there's these elderly, you know, men or women that are receiving chemotherapy with their partners next to them. 325 00:26:38,553.413 --> 00:26:44,893.413 Everyone's wearing a mask, but you can see the eyes and the eyes of like, Oh my goodness, she's so young. 326 00:26:44,963.413 --> 00:26:46,868.413 And you know, that's what they're thinking. 327 00:26:46,908.413 --> 00:26:48,848.413 They're looking at you with the sorrow in their eyes. 328 00:26:48,878.413 --> 00:26:54,598.413 And, that was really hard, too, because it was weird. 329 00:26:54,598.413 --> 00:26:59,128.413 It was a weird world of walking into actually, so I'm going to digress. 330 00:26:59,138.413 --> 00:27:00,259.413 My, Yeah, that's okay. 331 00:27:00,668.413 --> 00:27:02,708.412 my first appointment, I was just remembering. 332 00:27:02,718.412 --> 00:27:09,408.413 So my mother came with me and we're sitting in the waiting room for chemo and the nurse comes out and she's like, Sarah. 333 00:27:10,733.413 --> 00:27:20,533.413 And then my mom and I stand up and she goes and directly goes to my mother and says, okay, so what we're going to do, and my mom goes and she points to me and she says, that's Sarah. 334 00:27:20,833.413 --> 00:27:23,773.413 And they're like, oh, you know, it's like this. 335 00:27:24,823.413 --> 00:27:26,713.413 They just expected someone older. 336 00:27:27,858.413 --> 00:27:31,98.413 And so, yeah, that was a weird world to go through. 337 00:27:31,798.413 --> 00:27:33,888.413 And then, of course, losing your hair. 338 00:27:34,88.413 --> 00:27:40,48.413 That's a really, that's, that was a lot harder than I thought it was gonna be because I've never really been attached to my hair. 339 00:27:40,68.412 --> 00:27:49,768.415 I've never really been one, I know it's really important for a lot of people in general but I didn't think it was gonna be hard, but that was really, really, really hard. 340 00:27:49,878.415 --> 00:27:55,998.415 Because you, You don't recognize yourself, you know, and that's really hard. 341 00:27:56,938.415 --> 00:28:01,798.415 Everything changes, your body changes, your appearance changes. 342 00:28:02,858.415 --> 00:28:09,988.414 not only do you lose your hair, maybe a lot of people don't know this, but you literally lose every single hair on your body. 343 00:28:10,198.414 --> 00:28:15,728.415 Every single hair, like eyelashes, nose hairs, everything. 344 00:28:15,798.415 --> 00:28:18,58.415 Like, it is all gone. 345 00:28:18,318.415 --> 00:28:19,758.415 Going through that process. 346 00:28:20,98.415 --> 00:28:29,718.415 Feeling like you want to do is survive waking up every day and looking in the mirror and seeing this person that you don't recognize. 347 00:28:30,378.414 --> 00:28:31,898.415 It's very, very difficult. 348 00:28:32,8.415 --> 00:28:43,358.415 And, going kind of into a segue of your body and learning to love your body is definitely something that I've had to do through this process. 349 00:28:43,438.415 --> 00:29:05,608.413 Surgery, know, I had surgery three weeks after I finished chemo, and I had a bilateral mastectomy, even though I had cancer only in one side, I, I wanted them both gone, I want to live with a breast, knowing that this could happen again. 350 00:29:06,58.414 --> 00:29:09,528.414 And so I was like, you know, I'm doing both. 351 00:29:09,548.414 --> 00:29:11,718.414 I knew from the beginning that's what I wanted to do. 352 00:29:12,418.414 --> 00:29:19,478.414 But when you think about it, you think, okay, well, you know, you just chop them off, do whatever, all good to go. 353 00:29:19,508.413 --> 00:29:22,448.413 But that process is also extremely difficult. 354 00:29:23,248.414 --> 00:29:25,238.414 You know, there's, that was my very first surgery. 355 00:29:25,248.414 --> 00:29:27,239.414 Like I had never had surgery Wow. 356 00:29:27,459.414 --> 00:29:27,799.414 Yeah. 357 00:29:27,859.414 --> 00:29:31,929.413 That's, It's that's a, it's a big, big surgery. 358 00:29:32,299.413 --> 00:29:32,859.413 Yeah. 359 00:29:33,409.414 --> 00:29:42,359.414 And I have also heard the same thing that you just shared that often if someone finds breast cancer in one breast, they'll remove, they'll have the bilateral. 360 00:29:42,369.414 --> 00:29:42,389.414 Yeah. 361 00:29:42,569.414 --> 00:29:48,559.414 When I had my fear thing happen in December, I was already like, yep, take them, chop them off. 362 00:29:48,859.414 --> 00:29:49,459.414 See you later. 363 00:29:50,19.414 --> 00:29:50,369.414 Hmm. 364 00:29:50,425.414 --> 00:29:57,795.413 I don't think people realize how that impacts you and your relationship with your body. 365 00:29:57,825.414 --> 00:30:04,55.414 And that's an ongoing process for everybody, right? As our bodies evolve and change. 366 00:30:05,365.414 --> 00:30:06,235.414 And let's be honest. 367 00:30:07,25.414 --> 00:30:13,165.414 Every single human alive is going to get something at some point in their time. 368 00:30:13,165.414 --> 00:30:18,5.414 And so this self compassion with our body and our relationship with our body. 369 00:30:18,5.414 --> 00:30:22,845.413 And I like to think about a self compassion because we don't have to love every inch of our body. 370 00:30:22,845.413 --> 00:30:26,595.414 I just think that's also toxic positivity to assume that we could. 371 00:30:28,170.414 --> 00:30:56,150.414 But how did your relationship with your body change through this process? I think the biggest thing for me was learning how to trust my body again, because I really felt like, you know, I was in the best shape of my life when I was diagnosed and I just I had this feeling of how can I trust my body again? I feel like it failed me, you Mm. 372 00:30:56,204.414 --> 00:30:59,289.414 feel like I was doing all the right things. 373 00:30:59,329.414 --> 00:31:02,389.4135 I was treating my body fairly. 374 00:31:02,389.4135 --> 00:31:03,759.413 I was treating it well. 375 00:31:03,809.414 --> 00:31:08,886.0473333 And how dare it turn on me, Mm hmm. 376 00:31:08,886.0473333 --> 00:31:09,957.114 Mm hmm. 377 00:31:09,957.114 --> 00:31:11,28.1806667 Mm hmm. 378 00:31:11,28.1806667 --> 00:31:12,99.2473333 Mm hmm. 379 00:31:12,99.2473333 --> 00:31:13,170.314 Mm hmm. 380 00:31:13,179.414 --> 00:31:16,129.414 I wasn't so good to it in my twenties and my thirties. 381 00:31:16,310.414 --> 00:31:22,560.413 Who was? Who was, Sarah? Anyone out there? Good to their bodies in their 20s? High five to you if you were. 382 00:31:23,50.413 --> 00:31:24,60.413 You're exceptional. 383 00:31:24,659.413 --> 00:31:25,990.413 I mean, You're exceptional. 384 00:31:26,169.413 --> 00:31:26,639.413 So. 385 00:31:26,994.413 --> 00:31:29,424.413 In the surgery, in my initial surgery. 386 00:31:29,424.413 --> 00:31:33,344.413 So what they do is, you know, you take the breast tissue, take it all out. 387 00:31:33,954.413 --> 00:31:41,790.412 This is a really strange and potentially gross visual, but for your listeners you know how you like scoop a melon, Yeah. 388 00:31:42,10.412 --> 00:31:42,440.412 Mm hmm. 389 00:31:42,754.413 --> 00:31:45,454.412 everything out and you leave the outside. 390 00:31:45,540.412 --> 00:31:46,40.412 Mm hmm. 391 00:31:46,264.412 --> 00:31:47,344.412 basically what they do. 392 00:31:47,604.412 --> 00:31:50,604.412 So they try to get as much out as possible. 393 00:31:50,924.412 --> 00:31:52,104.412 And then I had. 394 00:31:53,34.412 --> 00:31:54,544.412 They're called tissue expanders. 395 00:31:54,554.412 --> 00:31:59,914.412 So the plastic surgeon comes in after the breast surgeon and then he sticks in these things. 396 00:31:59,924.411 --> 00:32:06,344.411 So there's kind of like these pockets where they put them under, for me, it was under the pec muscles. 397 00:32:06,790.411 --> 00:32:07,300.411 Okay. 398 00:32:07,414.412 --> 00:32:08,664.411 did the reconstruction. 399 00:32:08,904.411 --> 00:32:12,994.411 So he puts them under the muscles and kind of puts them in there, however he does it. 400 00:32:13,394.411 --> 00:32:17,674.411 And then you go in once a week and the, he injects saline. 401 00:32:18,544.411 --> 00:32:22,214.411 So, a little bit every week, Once a week? Mm hmm. 402 00:32:22,540.411 --> 00:32:31,124.41 For how long? I think my process lasted about six or eight weeks. 403 00:32:31,260.411 --> 00:32:32,270.411 I don't think anyone knows that. 404 00:32:32,270.411 --> 00:32:34,654.531 I didn't know that I didn't know that that's how they do it. 405 00:32:34,724.531 --> 00:32:35,44.531 Mm hmm. 406 00:32:35,104.531 --> 00:32:35,664.531 Wow. 407 00:32:35,928.53 --> 00:32:36,378.53 Yeah. 408 00:32:36,378.53 --> 00:32:41,743.531 So, specifically for me the reason why I decided to go that route Because I knew I need radiation. 409 00:32:41,763.531 --> 00:32:45,233.531 I needed radiation therapy after my surgery. 410 00:32:45,593.531 --> 00:32:57,83.531 So because I needed the radiation therapy they had recommended the tissue expanders and not to go straight to implants because The radiation could mess with the implant surgery and then you have to do it all over again. 411 00:32:57,93.531 --> 00:33:08,503.53 So even though this process was much longer I opted for it because I wanted the best outcome at the end and the best chances of, of, you know, less surgeries down the road. 412 00:33:10,158.531 --> 00:33:21,28.531 So, yeah, once a week I went in and they pumped those up with more saline till we got to the point where, you know, it was the size that we wanted for the implants when that came down the road. 413 00:33:21,28.531 --> 00:33:25,928.531 It was about seven months later, and my plastic surgeon was amazing. 414 00:33:25,968.531 --> 00:33:27,598.53 They looked great. 415 00:33:27,908.53 --> 00:33:36,913.531 The scarring, you know, is very quite minimal compared to a lot of the Bosch surgeries that I've seen online, which can be scary to look at too. 416 00:33:37,403.531 --> 00:33:44,193.531 Learning to, to, to be okay with what you look like afterwards is, is, it can be very challenging. 417 00:33:45,878.531 --> 00:33:49,138.531 And, they don't look like breasts when you're not wearing clothes. 418 00:33:49,168.531 --> 00:33:53,338.531 Like they, they, they are implants that are under your skin or whatever. 419 00:33:53,348.531 --> 00:33:54,728.53 And it's. 420 00:33:55,593.53 --> 00:34:09,423.531 It's, it's a very long learning process of loving what they look like and loving your body because I tell you, your body changes more than just that, Mm hmm. 421 00:34:09,602.531 --> 00:34:11,412.53 I was put into medically induced menopause. 422 00:34:12,637.531 --> 00:34:18,687.5315 Which a lot of breast cancer and patients are mama had that, too. 423 00:34:18,827.5315 --> 00:34:19,317.5315 Mm hmm. 424 00:34:19,721.5315 --> 00:34:24,411.5315 And actually, fun fact is, chemo actually puts you into menopause immediately. 425 00:34:24,411.5315 --> 00:34:26,301.5315 It shuts you down, it shuts your ovaries down. 426 00:34:26,331.5305 --> 00:34:28,417.5315 As Oh, I didn't know that. 427 00:34:28,707.5315 --> 00:34:29,157.5315 Mm hmm. 428 00:34:29,157.6315 --> 00:34:29,347.4315 Mm hmm. 429 00:34:29,781.5305 --> 00:34:37,921.5325 So, as soon as, I think I had, my last period was, like, two weeks before I started chemotherapy, and then that was it. 430 00:34:38,291.5325 --> 00:34:39,211.5325 That was it for me. 431 00:34:39,241.5325 --> 00:34:58,237.0753572 And that comes along with all those fun hot flashes and night sweats and restless leg syndrome and and everything else that women have to go through when they go through menopause naturally but when you're thrown into it. 432 00:34:58,867.1753572 --> 00:35:03,717.1753572 When your body isn't prepared for it, it is a rollercoaster ride. 433 00:35:03,827.1753572 --> 00:35:04,897.1753572 It's intense. 434 00:35:04,937.1753572 --> 00:35:05,927.1753572 It's really intense. 435 00:35:05,937.1753572 --> 00:35:11,157.1753572 So on top of that, when you go into menopause, your body wants to store fat. 436 00:35:11,577.1753572 --> 00:35:13,327.1743572 It wants your body changes. 437 00:35:13,767.1753572 --> 00:35:19,157.1753572 Your shape changes, your listeners that have gone through menopause, I'm sure they can relate to that. 438 00:35:19,517.1753572 --> 00:35:30,747.1753572 And not only that, but it comes with a lot of mental health struggles too, because it really does affect your mood, it affects everything. 439 00:35:30,807.1753572 --> 00:35:33,587.1753572 I was struggling mentally and struggling physically. 440 00:35:33,637.1753572 --> 00:35:37,27.1753572 And you know, the physical part also affects you mentally. 441 00:35:37,27.1753572 --> 00:36:05,67.1733572 So just this crazy, crazy, crazy ride of, of really tuning in and learning how, how do we make this as easy and smooth as possible my mental health? And I was talking to someone just the other day about body size and how our bodies are, we were actually talking about perimenopause and menopause and how our bodies are actually made to change. 442 00:36:05,67.1733572 --> 00:36:11,127.1733572 Like they're made to change and our size is meant to change. 443 00:36:11,127.1733572 --> 00:36:24,132.1733572 Like as our body moves Through our seasons, you know, and if we didn't put so much value on size in our society it may be a smidge easier to accept that, Hey, I meant to do this. 444 00:36:24,132.1733572 --> 00:36:26,362.1733572 Like, this is my body doing what it's meant to do. 445 00:36:26,792.1733572 --> 00:36:30,882.1733572 This is just what happens in, in this type of season of life. 446 00:36:31,432.1733572 --> 00:36:34,552.1733572 So there's so much that needs to shift in society around that. 447 00:36:34,582.1733572 --> 00:36:38,492.1733572 But also I think when it's forced upon you, right. 448 00:36:38,942.1733572 --> 00:36:39,532.1733572 It's really hard. 449 00:36:39,532.1733572 --> 00:36:42,772.1733572 It's like extra lightning speed fast of these changes. 450 00:36:42,802.1733572 --> 00:36:50,162.1733572 And it's hard enough to embrace your evolving body, when you're in good health. 451 00:36:51,242.1733572 --> 00:36:54,152.1733572 And then you have this added layer of it being forced upon you. 452 00:36:54,182.1733572 --> 00:37:02,132.1733572 And it's like, I remember with my mom, it was like lightning speed, all of the things, like all of the things were happening in such a short amount of time for her menopause. 453 00:37:02,542.1733572 --> 00:37:03,192.1733572 Process. 454 00:37:03,362.1733572 --> 00:37:04,942.1733572 I don't know if that's the right, the right term. 455 00:37:05,392.1733572 --> 00:37:09,622.1733572 And that is, of course that's hard to sit with and move through. 456 00:37:10,262.1723572 --> 00:37:11,432.1723572 Yeah, it is. 457 00:37:11,522.1723572 --> 00:37:16,752.1723572 Because you're not only dealing with the side effects from treatment, but then you're dealing with the side effects from menopause. 458 00:37:17,592.1723572 --> 00:37:21,752.1723572 And it's just symptom after symptom after symptom. 459 00:37:21,782.1723572 --> 00:37:30,492.1723572 And you're like, okay, like, when is this going to get better? And It does get better. 460 00:37:30,592.1723572 --> 00:37:37,752.1723572 It does get better, you know, with different medications and, you know, I, been on Wellbutrin. 461 00:37:37,832.1723572 --> 00:37:40,408.1723571 I knew, that, Sarah? I don't know what that is. 462 00:37:41,112.1723572 --> 00:37:44,968.1723571 It's it's for, it's a medication, antidepressant Mm hmm. 463 00:37:45,312.1713572 --> 00:37:46,492.1723572 anti anxiety medication. 464 00:37:46,962.1723572 --> 00:37:55,972.1723572 And I knew even though I I've had so many medications in my body and honestly before cancer, I would avoid taking Tylenol at all costs. 465 00:37:55,972.1723572 --> 00:37:56,748.1723571 Like Same. 466 00:37:57,492.1723572 --> 00:38:00,2.1723572 that's how little I wanted medication in my body. 467 00:38:00,412.1723572 --> 00:38:02,787.1733572 It was kind of foreign to me. 468 00:38:03,207.1733572 --> 00:38:20,217.1738572 I was reluctant to add something to the mix of everything, but knew that I needed to do it to move forward and to give take that little bit of edge off as far as the depression, anxiety is concerned to help myself to get through everything. 469 00:38:20,347.1738572 --> 00:38:21,477.1738572 I think it's great. 470 00:38:21,507.1738572 --> 00:38:29,747.1738572 A very, very big pro advocate of, taking the medications that are out there to help you however you need that help. 471 00:38:29,907.1738572 --> 00:38:40,867.1718572 And I think that really helped me along with my fitness for me, fitness, and I think you had mentioned the other day to like, it's so important for your mental health just that movement. 472 00:38:40,927.1728572 --> 00:38:45,743.0728571 And when I saw your stories the other Mm hmm. 473 00:38:46,147.1728572 --> 00:38:48,207.1728572 I felt like I really felt for you. 474 00:38:48,697.1728572 --> 00:38:49,357.1728572 And. 475 00:38:49,852.1728572 --> 00:39:08,991.9718572 You, you just had this natural instinct to move and I can tell you that that got me through cancer and cancer treatment to just moving and just getting it out, however, that looks like some days I would just dance in my kitchen because that's all I could do hmm. 476 00:39:09,251.0718572 --> 00:39:15,911.0718572 Throwing music on and just moving like it's so, so therapeutic and it's so good. 477 00:39:16,712.0718572 --> 00:39:18,762.0718572 Yeah, you know, I went to the gym this morning. 478 00:39:18,762.0718572 --> 00:39:20,842.0718572 I started going to the gym in December. 479 00:39:20,872.0718572 --> 00:39:22,972.0718572 I am a gym serial dater. 480 00:39:24,322.0708572 --> 00:39:26,302.0708572 I don't love going to the gym. 481 00:39:26,302.0718572 --> 00:39:30,942.0708572 I have tried so many gyms and I'm actually really loving this one. 482 00:39:30,942.0718572 --> 00:39:44,132.0698572 So hopefully it's a longer love affair than my previous ones have been, but I'm thinking about this on the drive home today, because I know that you said, you're really into moving your body. 483 00:39:44,132.0708572 --> 00:39:44,422.0708572 Right. 484 00:39:44,482.0708572 --> 00:39:56,752.0708572 And I was thinking about on the drive home from the gym today, how it's so sad that the narrative around fitness and gyms have become so consumed with weight loss and not focused on the mental health. 485 00:39:56,772.0708572 --> 00:40:14,662.0698572 And in fact, my husband and I have even talked about how it would be so wonderful if gym memberships, we're covered in part of our healthcare plan, I can tell you that I started going to the gym I have been told I have PTSD and a whole bunch of other things that I'm moving through. 486 00:40:15,32.0698572 --> 00:40:20,842.0688572 And I had three mental health professionals tell me that about the PTSD part. 487 00:40:20,872.0698572 --> 00:40:22,922.0698572 And I was like, oh shit, I'm going to join a gym. 488 00:40:23,416.0698572 --> 00:40:32,407.0698572 Mm-hmm I was terrified again because I'm in the worst shape of my life with the amount of stress because yeah, it's sometimes you just can't. 489 00:40:32,777.0698572 --> 00:40:41,527.0698572 And I, stress impacts my MS immensely but I'm starting to notice that I can lift a little smidgen more of weight. 490 00:40:42,87.0698572 --> 00:40:48,227.0698572 And that feeling of not just moving my body, but feeling stronger in my body. 491 00:40:48,597.0698572 --> 00:40:49,967.0703572 It's just, it's such a shame that. 492 00:40:50,242.0703572 --> 00:40:54,492.0703572 The whole narrative around fitness is really about weight loss. 493 00:40:54,812.0703572 --> 00:41:13,432.0713572 And for me, it's about strength, gain, confidence, gain, clarity, gain, moving like that stagnant energy in my body while I can, you know and I really wish that fitness was more closely related to mental health care and physical care. 494 00:41:13,632.1713572 --> 00:41:20,692.0713572 Beyond dieting and, cause it really, none of that matters. 495 00:41:20,742.0713572 --> 00:41:27,282.0713572 If you can feel strong and confident and connected to your body, I feel like that's more important. 496 00:41:27,282.0713572 --> 00:41:35,221.0713572 And let me tell you, I have cried at the gym many times because as I'm moving there's release Mm-hmm Yes. 497 00:41:35,542.0713572 --> 00:41:36,352.0713572 and I try and hide it. 498 00:41:36,382.0713572 --> 00:41:38,832.0713572 I'm like, I've got the lightest weights in my head. 499 00:41:38,832.0713572 --> 00:41:39,552.0713572 I'm like, I'm good. 500 00:41:39,617.1713572 --> 00:41:41,51.1713572 But I think it's, just sweat. 501 00:41:41,51.1713572 --> 00:41:41,54.1713572 It's just sweat. 502 00:41:42,217.1713572 --> 00:41:46,437.1713572 it's just that release and, you know, I studied embodiment and somatics for a year. 503 00:41:46,447.1713572 --> 00:41:47,97.1713572 And it's true. 504 00:41:47,97.1713572 --> 00:41:53,317.1713572 Like when we start to release things in our body, like the, and I'm not one to shy away from crying. 505 00:41:53,317.1713572 --> 00:41:54,57.1713572 I cry a lot. 506 00:41:54,567.1713572 --> 00:41:59,897.1733572 But it's really fascinating to me to be exercising and the music bump in and then also. 507 00:42:00,357.1733572 --> 00:42:20,316.1733572 Start crying because our bodies are needing that, you know, that stored tension and I have cried as well and, mostly in yoga, to be honest, when I'm doing yoga or stretching or what have you you know, I, I also hate the gym. 508 00:42:20,536.1733572 --> 00:42:21,495.1733572 You do I do. 509 00:42:21,495.1733572 --> 00:42:21,995.1733572 I hate it. 510 00:42:22,45.1733572 --> 00:42:22,515.1733572 I do. 511 00:42:22,795.1733572 --> 00:42:23,935.1733572 I really, really do. 512 00:42:24,285.1733572 --> 00:42:26,245.1733572 I hate the environment. 513 00:42:26,255.1733572 --> 00:42:28,725.1723572 I, I don't like the lighting. 514 00:42:28,745.1733572 --> 00:42:32,956.1733572 So I do group fitness classes and I have been doing them, same. 515 00:42:33,380.1733572 --> 00:42:34,410.1733572 many, many years. 516 00:42:35,720.1733572 --> 00:42:38,240.1733572 I'm not doing any plugs, but like oxygen yoga and fitness. 517 00:42:38,240.1733572 --> 00:42:40,740.1733572 That's where I started with them about nine or 10 years ago. 518 00:42:40,970.1733572 --> 00:42:46,850.1723572 I moved into a company here in Abbotsford which is not tied to them. 519 00:42:46,860.1723572 --> 00:43:04,770.1733572 So it's just you know, just, A small gym but they do, it's all the same thing, heated classes, everything is infrared heated and so sometimes the lights will be dimmer, where you can't really see, and that's where I just kind of let it go, or if I'm laying on my mat, like at the end of it, you know. 520 00:43:05,110.1733572 --> 00:43:05,640.1733572 It does. 521 00:43:05,640.1733572 --> 00:43:10,620.1733572 It really, really releases so much that you're right. 522 00:43:11,50.1733572 --> 00:43:14,870.1733572 Our health system should be covering at least a portion of it. 523 00:43:14,880.1723572 --> 00:43:16,540.1733572 I, I totally agree with you. 524 00:43:16,950.1723572 --> 00:43:18,410.1723572 Diet, dieting is. 525 00:43:18,535.2723572 --> 00:43:19,755.1723572 It's stupid. 526 00:43:19,795.1723572 --> 00:43:34,955.1713572 I mean, not in a sense of like taking, not in a sense of like taking care of your body, but you know, all these fad diets and know, yo yo diets and this and that and diet pills and it's not helpful. 527 00:43:35,25.1723572 --> 00:43:43,235.1723572 And I have to be honest, when I first started my fitness journey years ago, I actually wasn't, like I said, I wasn't treating my body very well. 528 00:43:43,245.1723572 --> 00:43:44,895.1713572 So I, I, when I. 529 00:43:46,110.1723572 --> 00:43:49,890.1723572 I think it was like 12 years ago, I was a smoker. 530 00:43:49,910.1723572 --> 00:43:53,380.1723572 Like I used to smoke cigarettes and I traded. 531 00:43:54,20.1723572 --> 00:43:58,90.1723572 Smoking for fitness, because being asthmatic, I knew I couldn't do both. 532 00:43:58,460.1723572 --> 00:44:00,620.1723572 So I was like, okay, this is how I'm quitting smoking. 533 00:44:00,910.1723572 --> 00:44:03,480.1713572 And at the time, I was not in good shape. 534 00:44:03,500.1723572 --> 00:44:05,420.1723572 I didn't like the way that I looked. 535 00:44:05,420.1723572 --> 00:44:10,270.1713572 So I, I did, I did do it for health reasons, but I did it mostly for what I look like. 536 00:44:10,270.1723572 --> 00:44:13,280.1733572 And, I was pretty obsessed, like I was counting calories. 537 00:44:13,280.1733572 --> 00:44:16,770.1733572 I was, you know, working out to, so I can eat certain things. 538 00:44:16,770.1733572 --> 00:44:22,615.2348572 And my body crashed because that's, helpful and mentally I crashed. 539 00:44:22,625.2348572 --> 00:44:25,795.2348572 I was weighing myself every single day. 540 00:44:25,865.2348572 --> 00:44:28,375.2348572 Like it was so bad for my mental health. 541 00:44:28,581.1723572 --> 00:44:29,31.1723572 Mm hmm. 542 00:44:29,31.2723572 --> 00:44:32,171.0723572 Mm hmm. 543 00:44:32,295.2338572 --> 00:44:42,55.2343572 it more about strength and it more about my body, the health, my mental health, it all kind of came into perspective. 544 00:44:42,55.2343572 --> 00:44:50,435.2343572 You know, the cancer kind of got in the way, but since cancer And now that I'm feeling good, I look at it very, very differently. 545 00:44:50,435.2343572 --> 00:44:52,625.2343572 Now, like, I'd never weigh myself. 546 00:44:52,895.2343572 --> 00:44:57,355.2333572 The only time I weigh myself is when I have to when I go and see my oncologist, like every few months. 547 00:44:57,695.2343572 --> 00:45:00,709.2143572 I don't care about my weight any longer. 548 00:45:00,719.2143572 --> 00:45:02,189.2143572 It's not about that for me. 549 00:45:02,449.2143572 --> 00:45:17,474.0143572 Silence. 550 00:45:17,733.1768572 --> 00:45:38,273.1763572 targeted with ads like around Christmas time, going into new year's about, you know, new year's resolutions and all these different fitness schools and, weight loss Well, And it's just, we're bombarded by it all so much in society, especially as women that we don't, I don't think we really realize how bad it is. 551 00:45:39,244.1138572 --> 00:45:42,303.1763572 I think the health care system should support fitness Correct. 552 00:45:42,444.1138572 --> 00:45:50,144.1138572 like, Hey, if you want to use, Mm don't use physio, but my husband's healthcare plan, because I'm self employed, I don't have a healthcare plan. 553 00:45:50,144.1138572 --> 00:45:51,674.1138572 I get 500 a year for physio. 554 00:45:51,674.1138572 --> 00:45:54,694.1138572 Well, could I not just put that towards my. 555 00:45:55,624.1138572 --> 00:45:56,84.1138572 My gym. 556 00:45:56,84.1138572 --> 00:46:03,144.1138572 I think a lot of doctors, my doctors have, but my neurologist, like, hey, let's find ways to move our body that's gentle and comfortable for you. 557 00:46:03,424.1138572 --> 00:46:04,474.1138572 So she says that a lot. 558 00:46:04,653.1763572 --> 00:46:10,919.1138572 Mm And same as you, I don't really weigh myself unless I have to go to the doctor, which is when I saw like, oh, okay, that's neat, whatever. 559 00:46:11,319.1138572 --> 00:46:13,759.1133572 I think access is a big problem. 560 00:46:13,759.1133572 --> 00:46:14,369.1138572 It's a barrier. 561 00:46:14,389.1138572 --> 00:46:15,9.1133572 And it's true. 562 00:46:15,9.1133572 --> 00:46:21,49.1138572 Like I also go to a group fitness I go to F45 and it's not cheap. 563 00:46:22,858.1763572 --> 00:46:23,688.0763572 Mm hmm. 564 00:46:24,39.1138572 --> 00:46:30,498.1763572 It's challenging, you know, and I remember even when I joined that gym, my husband's like, how much does it cost? Yeah. 565 00:46:30,849.1138572 --> 00:46:32,79.1138572 and I'm barely working right now. 566 00:46:32,79.1138572 --> 00:46:35,819.1138572 I'm working very part-time with current things that we're managing in our family. 567 00:46:35,879.1138572 --> 00:46:37,679.1138572 And so it was a big expense. 568 00:46:37,679.1138572 --> 00:46:43,534.1138572 So wouldn't it be amazing if our healthcare system said, Hey, is this how you wanna help your health? Yeah. 569 00:46:43,630.0503572 --> 00:46:52,484.1138572 I'll digress, right? When you're a cancer patient, there's not enough information out there on how important exercise actually is and movement is for you. 570 00:46:52,744.1138572 --> 00:46:54,814.1138572 It helps chemotherapy work better. 571 00:46:55,74.1138572 --> 00:47:03,304.1118572 There's studies on you know, longevity it reduces your chance of recurrence by up to 30 to 40%, which is huge. 572 00:47:03,355.0493572 --> 00:47:04,85.0503572 is huge. 573 00:47:04,185.0503572 --> 00:47:04,985.0503572 I didn't know that. 574 00:47:05,314.1128572 --> 00:47:14,684.1128572 Yeah, it's it's one of the, one of my biggest motivational factors on top of obviously staying healthy mentally and physically, but keeping the cancer at bay. 575 00:47:14,714.1128572 --> 00:47:24,334.1128572 And I think that yeah, everybody should, should be a lot of more access because my, my membership is expensive as well. 576 00:47:24,574.1138572 --> 00:47:30,464.1138572 It's, it's not cheap, you know, a lot of, there is barrier for a lot of, a lot of people. 577 00:47:30,614.1138572 --> 00:47:31,164.1138572 Totally. 578 00:47:32,24.1138572 --> 00:47:34,974.1138572 I also think like I'm a small business owner and I'm, and my. 579 00:47:35,479.1138572 --> 00:47:37,939.1138572 I'm not cheap and I'm okay with that. 580 00:47:37,979.1138572 --> 00:47:42,989.1138572 And I think that these people that are in business, like I love my gym, they're so supportive. 581 00:47:43,629.1138572 --> 00:47:44,789.1138572 I don't think they should be cheaper. 582 00:47:44,789.1138572 --> 00:47:47,249.1138572 And I think that they're providing an amazing value. 583 00:47:47,249.1138572 --> 00:47:54,409.1138572 I think that we should just be able to have the support because of the, we should be able to, you know, you're saying about the Tylenol. 584 00:47:54,429.1138572 --> 00:47:55,849.1138572 I was like that as well. 585 00:47:56,239.1138572 --> 00:47:57,869.1138572 And yeah, if I want. 586 00:47:58,314.1138572 --> 00:48:01,214.1138572 To do this versus this or this and this. 587 00:48:01,234.1138572 --> 00:48:09,964.1138572 I feel like why, why can't I use my healthcare plan? So anyway, that's a whole other story I want to dig into because, you know, I'm fishnets and fries. 588 00:48:09,964.1138572 --> 00:48:13,844.1138572 We love to talk about joy and pleasure. 589 00:48:14,124.1128572 --> 00:48:30,313.1763572 How did you find pockets of joy throughout your cancer journey? I honestly just knew that knowing myself at my age, I knew the things that me joy. 590 00:48:30,343.1763572 --> 00:48:34,243.1763572 And I knew that I had to continue to do them to, to get through it. 591 00:48:34,293.1763572 --> 00:48:42,643.1773572 And for me, there's exercise and fitness, but on top, obviously, but on top of it, it's nature. 592 00:48:42,653.1773572 --> 00:48:45,923.1773572 And for me, nature is extremely healing. 593 00:48:46,423.1773572 --> 00:48:59,108.1773572 Go into the woods and I go for a hike and it's just, just being quiet and being alone and listening to the birds and listening to the sounds of nature and it's just so healing for me. 594 00:48:59,668.1773572 --> 00:49:03,874.1148572 I would just go and walk in the woods and just cry, you No one's there. 595 00:49:03,874.1148572 --> 00:49:05,34.1148572 No one can see you. 596 00:49:05,54.1148572 --> 00:49:06,864.1148572 You're just there and you're one with nature. 597 00:49:06,864.1148572 --> 00:49:14,294.1148572 And for me, it's always been a source of healing and a source of joy. 598 00:49:14,454.1138572 --> 00:49:19,774.1148572 And it's always available and it's inexpensive. 599 00:49:19,844.1138572 --> 00:49:25,804.1158572 And you know, you need shoes and, know, if, if that, yeah, if that, maybe you don't Yeah. 600 00:49:25,980.0533572 --> 00:49:27,790.0523572 barefoot, I love being barefoot on the beach. 601 00:49:28,220.0533572 --> 00:49:28,440.0533572 Yeah. 602 00:49:29,169.1158572 --> 00:49:36,819.1158572 yeah, and it's, it's just, and for me, yeah, it was just pushing myself. 603 00:49:36,819.1158572 --> 00:49:39,449.1158572 There were days where I didn't want to, I didn't want to go to bed. 604 00:49:39,639.1158572 --> 00:49:45,179.1158572 There were days that I didn't want to go outside, I didn't want to interact with people or go into nature. 605 00:49:45,179.1158572 --> 00:49:49,129.1158572 Also, there was, you know, the COVID aspect of it all too, and being very isolated. 606 00:49:49,209.1158572 --> 00:49:54,489.1158572 Finding different ways while being isolated as well, was challenging. 607 00:49:54,519.1158572 --> 00:49:58,9.1158572 I knew that I can just go into the woods and that was available. 608 00:49:58,19.1158572 --> 00:50:03,849.1148572 We couldn't really get together as people, in groups or whatever, or visit our friends outside of our bubble. 609 00:50:03,869.1158572 --> 00:50:07,19.1158572 But, nature is always there to provide it. 610 00:50:07,39.1158572 --> 00:50:11,19.1158572 And being creative also is a huge thing for me. 611 00:50:11,149.1158572 --> 00:50:18,319.1158572 Tapping into creativity in whatever way that looks is also something that brings me joy. 612 00:50:18,359.1158572 --> 00:50:25,189.1163572 And I think that it's important, for everyone to find some, however creativity looks to you. 613 00:50:25,199.1163572 --> 00:50:31,499.1163572 For me, you know, I have a garden and in my vegetable garden, I have my houseplants that I take care of. 614 00:50:31,499.1163572 --> 00:50:40,479.1163572 And for me, that's creative in a way, or I paint, Especially during isolation, what else are you going to do? But, you know, tap into creativity. 615 00:50:41,109.1163572 --> 00:50:42,899.1153572 However that looks in any given day. 616 00:50:43,850.0528572 --> 00:50:46,220.0538572 Yeah, I, I, people tell me they're not creative. 617 00:50:46,230.0538572 --> 00:50:47,460.0528572 They're always like, you're so creative. 618 00:50:47,460.0538572 --> 00:50:47,940.0538572 I'm not creative. 619 00:50:47,940.0538572 --> 00:50:49,650.0538572 I'm like, everybody's creative. 620 00:50:50,90.0528572 --> 00:50:50,920.0528572 Everybody's creative. 621 00:50:50,920.0528572 --> 00:50:51,650.0528572 That's another narrative. 622 00:50:51,800.0538572 --> 00:50:52,510.0538572 I want to just. 623 00:50:52,855.0538572 --> 00:50:54,525.0538572 Smash that you're someone's not creative. 624 00:50:54,525.0538572 --> 00:50:55,455.0538572 Everyone's creative. 625 00:50:55,505.0538572 --> 00:51:08,345.0538572 How did having cancer and your evolving body and changing body and all the medications and everything impact intimacy, that side of your life. 626 00:51:09,429.1163572 --> 00:51:20,199.1163572 Hugely, hugely it's something and thank you for bringing that up because it is something that we don't talk about enough as in society. 627 00:51:20,419.1163572 --> 00:51:28,989.1163572 It's like people don't want to talk about it because I find that more younger people are getting cancer more and more and more so. 628 00:51:29,359.1163572 --> 00:51:35,889.1168572 It's not talked about enough how cancer treatment impacts your body. 629 00:51:37,324.1168572 --> 00:51:50,324.1168572 In all sorts of ways and menopause, specifically, so menopause, it, you know, happens for a reason naturally with all of us because we're not making babies anymore. 630 00:51:50,354.1168572 --> 00:51:59,864.1178572 So, you know, our body naturally biologically,, turns all that off and then it also turns off the intimacy and the sexuality part of us as well. 631 00:51:59,934.1178572 --> 00:52:18,474.1178572 So when you're going through it medically it just kind of flips the switch so quickly that only your body changes, but your brain changes chemically everything, it impacts all of those aspects in your life. 632 00:52:18,904.1188572 --> 00:52:44,684.1198572 And I think one of the biggest things is also your body image and loving your body because you have all of that compounded on, you know, your physical, your mental and then you have, chemically and all that stuff that if you don't learn to love your body and embrace your body, it makes it really hard. 633 00:52:45,659.1198572 --> 00:52:51,385.1573572 it makes it hard to feel comfortable with somebody else with your partner or whatever in that situation. 634 00:52:51,385.1573572 --> 00:52:57,895.1573572 And so it's so multifaceted that it's, it's something that. 635 00:52:58,425.1573572 --> 00:53:04,75.1573572 We're finally starting to talk about in society and just menopause in general. 636 00:53:04,385.1573572 --> 00:53:09,855.1563572 And there are some specialists popping up here and there, which is, I think, amazing. 637 00:53:10,595.1573572 --> 00:53:15,215.1573572 I found someone who there's only one specialist of all B. 638 00:53:15,235.1573572 --> 00:53:15,415.1573572 C. 639 00:53:15,415.1573572 --> 00:53:20,425.1573572 cancer and she is in Vancouver and her name is Dr. 640 00:53:20,475.1573572 --> 00:53:38,965.1573572 Altus and she is a menopause and sexuality sexual health that, She's a therapist that works with BC cancer and I saw her on a panel and if I didn't go to this panel for breast cancer specifically, I never would have known that she exists. 641 00:53:39,325.1573572 --> 00:53:43,65.1578572 And my doctor here in Abbotsford didn't even know that she exists either. 642 00:53:43,75.1568572 --> 00:53:47,205.1578572 So it's slowly we're talking about it. 643 00:53:47,455.1578572 --> 00:53:49,385.1578572 But because. 644 00:53:50,240.1578572 --> 00:54:01,240.1568572 Women in general have been excluded from medical research and for so long we're just getting to a point now where we're starting to talk about it. 645 00:54:01,620.1568572 --> 00:54:10,20.1558572 It's, it's sad, but it impacts us more in so many ways and intimacy and sexuality is is a huge one. 646 00:54:10,836.0923571 --> 00:54:11,396.0933571 Mm hmm. 647 00:54:12,316.0933571 --> 00:54:19,806.0923571 And so how did you connect with your sexuality or intimacy? But even for ourselves, right. 648 00:54:19,806.0933571 --> 00:54:32,686.0933571 I think that when we think about intimacy, it doesn't necessarily have to be with another person, but that intimacy with ourself or just feeling away in our body, you know, feeling a little saucy. 649 00:54:33,276.0933571 --> 00:54:51,796.0933571 I don't know about you, but sometimes, and I'm usually just in leggings like everyone else, especially here in the lower mainland, but sometimes it just makes me feel so good to put a little something, something on special, you know, or even, you know, there's just these little things that can really, I don't know, change the way we walk that day. 650 00:54:52,156.0923571 --> 00:54:56,606.0933571 And I can imagine when our body's moving through all these things that we're don't, we're not necessarily reaching for that. 651 00:54:56,606.0933571 --> 00:55:05,55.9933571 So how do we? Yeah. 652 00:55:05,315.1558572 --> 00:55:17,665.1558572 too, like I wasn't really one for wigs because when I was going through Chemo it was spring and then going into summer and it was hot we went through it A heat wave in 2021. 653 00:55:17,685.1558572 --> 00:55:20,855.1558572 I don't know if you remember, but it was hot. 654 00:55:21,305.1558572 --> 00:55:22,745.1558572 It was so hot. 655 00:55:22,745.1558572 --> 00:55:26,935.1558572 I think we got up to about 42, 43 degrees in the, in the Fraser Valley. 656 00:55:27,425.1558572 --> 00:55:33,805.1568572 And so wearing a wig again, really hot, I would just on weekends when I was feeling good, I would put on that wig. 657 00:55:33,835.1568572 --> 00:55:35,185.1568572 I would put on makeup. 658 00:55:35,185.1568572 --> 00:55:37,645.1568572 I would dress up and I would go with friends. 659 00:55:38,205.1568572 --> 00:55:50,790.1568572 And I think that really Brought some sort of normalcy and made me feel good about the way I looked and that made a big difference in how I felt about myself. 660 00:55:51,140.1568572 --> 00:55:55,550.1558572 It's definitely something I'm still learning and I'm still trying to navigate. 661 00:55:55,890.1568572 --> 00:56:01,920.1568572 I'm going to doctors, I'm talking, my oncologist she doesn't really, you know, that's not her specialty. 662 00:56:02,140.1568572 --> 00:56:22,260.2568572 Which is unfortunate because I've, and I've had this conversation with her about, Referring me to the specialist and how important it is for all of us, who are diagnosed with any type of cancer and going through treatment to have that support and that education and that it's important for all of us. 663 00:56:23,870.2558572 --> 00:56:28,140.2568572 Oh, for the, the, the sexual health specialist. 664 00:56:28,240.2568572 --> 00:56:28,660.2568572 Yeah. 665 00:56:29,490.2568572 --> 00:56:42,830.2563572 So shifting, it's slowly shifting, but I'm still learning, like, I'm still learning and I'm still moving through this and it's not easy and it's not easy, you know, in your relationships. 666 00:56:42,830.2563572 --> 00:56:48,750.2578572 It's not easy with yourself and it's a, it's a work in progress every single day. 667 00:56:49,601.1953571 --> 00:56:56,570.2578572 And we don't even talk about sex and sexuality and intimacy, and intimacy to me isn't even sex, right? So Yeah. 668 00:56:56,611.1953571 --> 00:57:02,791.1953571 like I often refer myself as an intimate photographer and I'm not photographing people having sex for the record. 669 00:57:03,426.2953571 --> 00:57:25,246.2953571 But that intimacy is a feeling, it's an energy, right, it's and so I think we need to be talking about that more in general, like what is intimacy, and you know, you were talking about putting on the wig and putting on the makeup, like there is no shame in getting dolled up or whatever you want to call it and feeling good about yourself that way. 670 00:57:25,246.2953571 --> 00:57:29,796.2953571 I, I feel like we also shame folks for wanting to do that and it seems super. 671 00:57:30,91.2953571 --> 00:57:30,711.2953571 Superficial. 672 00:57:30,711.2953571 --> 00:57:33,411.2953571 I think we also need to get rid of that narrative. 673 00:57:33,441.2953571 --> 00:57:44,641.2943571 You know, it's like, if that's what makes you feel good, who gives a shit? Like I, for me, it's, I love my red lipstick and that is usually like, just throw that on it and always just makes me feel away. 674 00:57:44,941.2953571 --> 00:57:45,781.2943571 So yeah. 675 00:57:45,850.3578572 --> 00:57:46,240.3578572 Yeah. 676 00:57:46,351.2953571 --> 00:57:46,771.2953571 the shame. 677 00:57:46,781.2953571 --> 00:57:47,411.2943571 Screw the shame. 678 00:57:48,440.3578572 --> 00:57:48,810.3578572 Yeah. 679 00:57:48,810.3578572 --> 00:57:49,280.3578572 Yeah. 680 00:57:49,540.3578572 --> 00:57:51,480.3578572 Whatever makes you feel good about you. 681 00:57:51,680.3578572 --> 00:57:54,250.3578572 I'm always a big advocate for yeah. 682 00:57:54,370.3578572 --> 00:57:56,130.3578572 Like, wear the dress. 683 00:57:56,410.3578572 --> 00:57:58,220.3573572 Wear the high heels. 684 00:57:58,220.3573572 --> 00:57:59,240.3578572 Do what you gotta do. 685 00:57:59,260.3568572 --> 00:58:00,110.3568572 High heels are not for me. 686 00:58:00,120.3578572 --> 00:58:00,781.2953571 I'm No. 687 00:58:01,390.3568572 --> 00:58:03,600.3568572 I'm six feet tall, so it's just not my jam. 688 00:58:03,600.4568572 --> 00:58:11,834.5193572 We should just stop judging where the wigs, where the sparkles, where nothing, as long as it's safe for you to do so, Yeah. 689 00:58:12,70.4568572 --> 00:58:13,710.4568572 and consensual, just go for it. 690 00:58:14,184.5193572 --> 00:58:14,824.5193572 Exactly. 691 00:58:14,900.4568572 --> 00:58:17,130.4568572 think that we can't deny that we're all. 692 00:58:17,495.4568572 --> 00:58:31,815.4558572 sexual beings and have desires and that kind of energy and when our body's shifting, I can imagine that such a needed conversation in these spaces because I can tell you, no one's ever talked to me about MS and intimacy and also impacts that too. 693 00:58:31,825.4558572 --> 00:58:42,935.4558572 Let's segue into this role that you've taken on around advocacy and how that's become important for you and why that's become important for you. 694 00:58:42,935.4558572 --> 00:58:55,694.5183572 I know you touched a bit about that at the beginning and what can you also share to others that might be moving through some heavy stuff in their life and what, how advocacy has supported you? Absolutely. 695 00:58:56,4.5183572 --> 00:59:11,134.5183572 I think I jumped into it pretty quickly because I saw other young women who were, my age or around my age that were creating content online and advocating for education around women's health in general. 696 00:59:12,444.5183572 --> 00:59:22,114.5183572 I was like, yeah, I, I like my story is valuable and my story,, their stories were helping me. 697 00:59:22,969.5183572 --> 00:59:26,489.5183572 I thought that my story could also help other people. 698 00:59:26,859.5183572 --> 00:59:29,869.5183572 So I also started creating content. 699 00:59:29,899.5183572 --> 00:59:34,579.5183572 I wasn't working because I was, I was fortunate enough to have long term disability. 700 00:59:34,869.5173572 --> 00:59:40,719.5183572 So I wasn't working and I jumped on board with a couple local nonprofit organizations. 701 00:59:40,729.5183572 --> 00:59:44,959.5183572 One Breast Cancer Canada another one, Breast Canada. 702 00:59:45,189.5183572 --> 00:59:59,430.3558572 I was also working as a breast health educator with Know Your Lemons Foundation, which is in the U S sharing my story because I was sharing it anyways, because I couldn't shut up about and that. 703 00:59:59,430.3558572 --> 01:00:01,470.3558572 I mean, just the right that right right there. 704 01:00:01,470.3558572 --> 01:00:02,270.3558572 That's some inspiration. 705 01:00:02,270.3558572 --> 01:00:09,280.3548572 I love what you said about you thought that your story, was meaningful, like there was something there that could be shared. 706 01:00:09,300.3558572 --> 01:00:11,590.3558572 I hope that everyone feels that way. 707 01:00:11,910.3558572 --> 01:00:18,870.3558572 This is this is as a photographer when I'm always telling people like you matter, your story matters. 708 01:00:18,890.3558572 --> 01:00:26,300.3558572 And it may really Support someone and bring out that hope and joy that as they're moving through things. 709 01:00:26,310.3558572 --> 01:00:29,850.3558572 So I love that you notice that within yourself. 710 01:00:30,79.4183572 --> 01:00:30,509.4183572 Yeah. 711 01:00:30,509.4183572 --> 01:00:43,989.4173572 And then, I would get DMs from people who were, you know, just starting out with, being diagnosed or potentially being diagnosed or, and I could help them. 712 01:00:44,29.4173572 --> 01:00:47,429.4193572 And, the friends that I had along the way, and now I'm getting emotional. 713 01:00:48,49.4193572 --> 01:01:00,285.3568572 You know, the friends that I lost who I could talk to It just, I just felt like I needed to be that for them too, If, if cancer takes me one day, which I hope it doesn't, I hope it doesn't too, so. 714 01:01:00,285.4568572 --> 01:01:04,85.3568572 Mm hmm. 715 01:01:04,85.3568572 --> 01:01:07,885.2568572 Mm hmm. 716 01:01:07,929.4193572 --> 01:01:28,774.4183572 I learned from her and I got some strength and I felt good about myself and I can share my story because she's shared hers just to digress just a little bit, like growing up, I'm not going to get into details, but growing up as a kid I had kind of a difficult childhood in my home and I was silenced for quite some time, so I really felt like I didn't have a voice. 717 01:01:28,774.4183572 --> 01:01:42,394.4183572 And I feel like going through cancer and being able to share my voice and to share my story has been really therapeutic for me in general, and has helped me deal with past traumas as well as my current traumas. 718 01:01:42,504.4183572 --> 01:01:46,14.4183572 Which cancer, just so you know, brings up a lot of old stuff too. 719 01:01:46,369.4183572 --> 01:01:50,739.4183572 So any kind of medical diagnosis can, can do that for people. 720 01:01:51,79.4183572 --> 01:02:00,169.4173572 And there's that part for myself, which I don't think there should be any shame of doing something for yourself. 721 01:02:01,369.4173572 --> 01:02:03,999.4163572 but in turn can, can help other people. 722 01:02:04,319.4163572 --> 01:02:04,929.4163572 And. 723 01:02:05,614.4173572 --> 01:02:55,789.4163572 Education is key and trying to reach younger people is always in my goal because honestly, need to start educating Young people, even in high school, even teenagehood, we need to start educating them about their bodies, learning about your bodies, don't have shame in your bodies, and there's so many aspects of that you know, consent, and even in the medical world, and if we can empower People young, then we can find these things younger and not be dealing with stage four diagnosis and not be having to, tell young families that, you know, they're going to lose somebody when the medical system could have helped them earlier. 724 01:02:57,720.3538572 --> 01:02:58,530.3538572 I love that. 725 01:02:59,50.3538572 --> 01:03:00,980.3538572 Thank you for the advocacy work that you do. 726 01:03:01,10.3538572 --> 01:03:02,110.3538572 I mean, that's how we met. 727 01:03:02,670.3538572 --> 01:03:03,660.3538572 Continue to do that. 728 01:03:03,710.3538572 --> 01:03:07,490.3538572 Continue to also encourage people to use their voice. 729 01:03:07,500.3538572 --> 01:03:09,550.3538572 It's my life mission. 730 01:03:09,780.3538572 --> 01:03:11,730.3528572 It's why I started this podcast. 731 01:03:12,270.3538572 --> 01:03:14,340.3528572 I've always really loved storytelling. 732 01:03:14,340.3528572 --> 01:03:15,350.3538572 It's so important. 733 01:03:15,410.3538572 --> 01:03:29,420.3538572 It goes way back and this idea of listening to each other's story, like really, truly listening and finding ways to connect through story is so freaking powerful. 734 01:03:29,480.3538572 --> 01:03:31,530.3538572 So thank you for what you do, Sara. 735 01:03:31,550.3538572 --> 01:03:33,20.3538572 I think it's so wonderful. 736 01:03:35,110.3538572 --> 01:03:40,230.3538572 This has been such a wonderful conversation and I'm sure there's a million other things that we could talk about. 737 01:03:40,335.4538572 --> 01:03:50,505.4538572 Is there any last thing that you would love for our listeners to know about your journey or if they're moving through this? Yeah, just that it it does get better. 738 01:03:50,515.4538572 --> 01:03:51,735.4538572 It does get better. 739 01:03:51,835.4538572 --> 01:03:57,35.4538572 And, we all go through, everyone goes through, seasons in their lives. 740 01:03:57,45.4538572 --> 01:04:01,425.4528572 And it's not always butterflies and rainbows. 741 01:04:01,465.4528572 --> 01:04:07,565.4528572 And And I'm, I also loathe toxic positivity. 742 01:04:07,985.4528572 --> 01:04:13,795.4528572 But, and I don't say things happen for a reason because they fucking don't sometimes. 743 01:04:15,15.4528572 --> 01:04:17,635.4518572 but it will get better. 744 01:04:17,775.4528572 --> 01:04:19,775.4518572 There will be glimmers of hope. 745 01:04:19,795.4528572 --> 01:04:21,275.4528572 There will be joy. 746 01:04:21,715.4528572 --> 01:04:24,525.4528572 And joy and pain can coexist. 747 01:04:25,171.3903571 --> 01:04:26,681.2903571 Mm hmm. 748 01:04:26,761.3903571 --> 01:04:27,341.3903571 Definitely. 749 01:04:27,371.3903571 --> 01:04:39,421.3903571 Duality, right? We can, I talk about this so often with my current life because of the current season I'm in, because I do experience joy and I experience, immense sadness and pain daily. 750 01:04:39,831.3903571 --> 01:04:40,931.3903571 And both can coexist. 751 01:04:40,931.3903571 --> 01:04:42,191.3903571 So yes, I love that. 752 01:04:44,1.3903571 --> 01:04:50,661.3903571 I started this podcast, I realized with my friend Mari that fishnets and fries is a bit of a tongue twister. 753 01:04:51,161.3903571 --> 01:04:55,945.4528572 Can you say it five times fast? Fishes and fries, fishes and fries. 754 01:04:55,985.4528572 --> 01:04:57,155.4528572 No, I can't. 755 01:04:58,915.4528572 --> 01:05:00,85.4518572 That was only one and a half. 756 01:05:03,251.3893571 --> 01:05:10,720.4528572 How can our listeners connect with you, Sarah, where can they find you? They can find me on Instagram. 757 01:05:10,750.4528572 --> 01:05:15,641.3903571 It's so sad that got rid of my original account That's so bonkers. 758 01:05:15,780.4528572 --> 01:05:19,710.4528572 too many political things online, I guess. 759 01:05:19,800.4528572 --> 01:05:23,920.4528572 But I'm gonna be, I'm really hoping that Blue Sky comes out with their new app. 760 01:05:23,930.4518572 --> 01:05:28,530.4518572 I'll put how your current account on Instagram people can reach out there. 761 01:05:28,820.4508572 --> 01:05:30,480.4518572 I'll put that in the show notes. 762 01:05:30,650.4508572 --> 01:05:34,560.4518572 And yeah, awesome. 763 01:05:34,754.5143572 --> 01:05:36,164.5143572 Anyone can reach out at any time. 764 01:05:36,554.5143572 --> 01:05:52,904.5163572 I'm an open book, and I love meeting new people, new friends, always open, and sharing my experiences if anyone is finding themselves in, the worst club and best members of cancer, and I'm always, always available. 765 01:05:53,710.4528571 --> 01:05:54,550.4538572 Thanks, Sarah. 766 01:05:54,560.4538572 --> 01:06:00,630.4538572 Thanks so much for being so open and vulnerable and not only sharing your story, but really educating. 767 01:06:00,630.4538572 --> 01:06:03,170.4538572 Like there's, I have been through the cancer journey with my mom. 768 01:06:03,270.4538572 --> 01:06:07,270.4538572 There's so many little tidbits that you shared here today that I had no idea about. 769 01:06:07,910.4538572 --> 01:06:12,200.4538572 And I think that's really key in your message is that we need more education. 770 01:06:12,230.4528572 --> 01:06:21,180.4528572 And we know that there's these big seas looming out there, but there's all these things that you spoke about that I'm like, sorry, what's that? I don't know. 771 01:06:21,190.4528572 --> 01:06:22,180.4538572 So everyone. 772 01:06:22,790.4538572 --> 01:06:25,879.5163572 Don't forget to do your breast self exams Mm hmm. 773 01:06:25,969.5163572 --> 01:06:26,199.5163572 Mm hmm. 774 01:06:26,410.4538572 --> 01:06:33,940.4538572 and your mammograms and don't let somebody tell you that you shouldn't have a mammogram if you're under the age of 40. 775 01:06:34,400.4538572 --> 01:06:35,690.4538572 Self breast exams. 776 01:06:35,850.4538572 --> 01:06:36,130.4538571 Yep. 777 01:06:36,200.4538571 --> 01:06:45,340.4538571 And if you need to learn how to do it, there's a lot of information online and a lot of information available on social media as well. 778 01:06:45,780.4538571 --> 01:06:48,390.4538571 And I'm willing to share it with anyone as well. 779 01:06:48,450.4528571 --> 01:06:49,320.4528571 If you're interested. 780 01:06:49,621.3913571 --> 01:06:49,861.3913571 Yeah. 781 01:06:49,861.3913571 --> 01:06:51,831.3913571 And you can always have your partner do it. 782 01:06:52,421.3913571 --> 01:06:55,671.3913571 I know that's actually someone that I recently photographed. 783 01:06:55,671.3913571 --> 01:06:58,921.3903571 That's how, she found it in her brass was her partner found. 784 01:06:58,921.3903571 --> 01:06:59,391.3903571 It was like right. 785 01:06:59,391.4903571 --> 01:07:07,486.3908571 So yeah, invitation to yourself or your partner or, Hey, maybe you have a friend that's been through it and they can help you. 786 01:07:07,626.3908571 --> 01:07:11,396.3908571 So just don't, you don't have to do it alone if you don't want to. 787 01:07:11,775.4533571 --> 01:07:12,635.4533571 You're never alone. 788 01:07:12,655.4533571 --> 01:07:17,171.3908571 You're never alone No, thanks so much, Sarah. 789 01:07:17,181.3908571 --> 01:07:18,211.3908571 Thank you so much. 790 01:07:18,211.3908571 --> 01:07:20,691.3908571 I really appreciate you sharing everything today. 791 01:07:21,475.4533571 --> 01:07:21,625.4533571 Yeah. 792 01:07:21,625.4533571 --> 01:07:22,725.4533571 Thank you for having me. 793 01:07:22,735.4533571 --> 01:07:23,725.4523571 This is a lot of fun. 794 01:07:24,191.3908571 --> 01:07:25,221.3908571 Awesome. 795 01:07:25,241.3898571 --> 01:07:31,851.3908571 Well, everybody, I hope that you take a lot from this conversation and don't hesitate to reach out to Sarah if you have any questions. 796 01:07:32,251.3908571 --> 01:07:33,961.3903571 And of course, you can always reach out to me. 797 01:07:33,961.3903571 --> 01:07:34,931.3918571 You know where to find me. 798 01:07:35,965.4533571 --> 01:07:42,501.3908571 Thank Thanks for diving in to another episode of Fishnets and Fries, a Mateus Studios production. 799 01:07:43,81.3908571 --> 01:07:47,381.3908571 If these conversations are feeding your soul, don't forget to subscribe and share the love. 800 01:07:47,781.3908571 --> 01:07:51,961.3898571 Until next time, keep it hot, keep it real, and keep it fabulous.

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