Episode 10: Historical Fiction and the Feral Cat Porch Takeover with Rep. Pat Outman

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stef (00:13):
I am Steph Reed.
I am the Director of theFlat River Community Library

Amanda (00:23):
and courageous citizen.

Pat (00:27):
I'm State Representative Pat Outman.
I represent, the 91st District

Cory (00:33):
Welcome to the Flat River Front Porch.

Stef (00:38):
Hi!
I'm back with, one of our fan favorites

Amanda (00:42):
Oh

Stef (00:42):
No, seriously, like one of the, I mean, in all fairness, I also paired
you with Brian Blomstrom and he may havebeen more of a draw, but we're not gonna,
we're not gonna look at it that way.
We're gonna look at it as,everybody in this community is
obsessed with you personally.
I always forget to introduce myself.
I hope at this point you know whoI am because I do this every time.
So, Uh, let's keep up, people.

(01:04):
But, um, I'm here today with There we go.

Amanda (01:11):
and courageous citizen.

Stef (01:13):
Yes.
Do gooder and crusader, absolutely, yeah.
we can say up front that I apparentlykidnapped you from your office in

Amanda (01:21):
was minding my own business in my office and all of a sudden there
was a knock at the door and the soundof wind pants and I knew it was over.
Wind,

Stef (01:26):
Yeah, I am, I'm wearing pants today that make that swish swish sound.
Yes.
Um, and that zip off at the knee forshorts related emergencies, apparently.
I've never fully understood what,um, what the value is in, in having
pants that zip away like that.

Amanda (01:44):
it's cool.
That's cool.

Stef (01:45):
Yeah.
But like, what do you do with the bottomhalf when, like, where does it go?

Amanda (01:49):
It'd be cool if you could make it into like, a canteen or something.
And you're like, putsome, like, get the ends.
Drink water off of it.

Stef (01:56):
my brain is going to that episode of, of the office where Michael was
being survivor man and he like cuts his,his suit apart in order to like fashion
a neckerchief and stuff like that.
Yeah.
And then it gets cold and hehas to put it back together.
Yeah.

Amanda (02:09):
Office.
Yeah,

Stef (02:11):
I mean, I don't.
I enjoyed The Office, butlike it, it needed to end

Amanda (02:14):
needed to end.
They

Stef (02:18):
They do.
But I did not kidnap you.
I want to make this clear.
Um, I asked you to do it sometimein the next couple of days, and
you were full of excuses as towhy you had to do it immediately.

Amanda (02:29):
you had to do it

Stef (02:31):
Eh, I mean, they're partially

Amanda (02:32):
mean

Stef (02:32):
They're, they're valid if you are someone who, who gets anxiety over things
like letting your cleaner know thatyour house was not clean to begin with.

Amanda (02:41):
Well, it's not, it's someone coming to my house to deal with my dogs.

Stef (02:46):
Mm hmm.

Amanda (02:46):
Will this air after spring break?

Stef (02:48):
gonna aim for next week.
Okay.
So,

Amanda (02:50):
Okay, so we gotta be careful about that.
I don't want people to knowmy house is unattended.
Okay,

Stef (02:55):
Yeah, your house, there will be somebody there with
a shotgun the whole time.
Don't.

Amanda (03:00):
But

Stef (03:00):
tell you what her address is, but we will make sure that
you know that it's very well, well

Amanda (03:04):
But I really want to get the dog areas clean.
And like, make sure that no onethinks I'm a bad housekeeper.
Because that would justmean the world's ending.
I think that a lot of times, Iworry about unmanageable situations
that's never going to happen.
Like, no way my Amanda's house is a wreck.
So why do I care?

Stef (03:22):
Well, why are your neighbors in your house?

Amanda (03:24):
they're letting the dogs out.

Stef (03:25):
Oh, okay.
What do you think might happen?
I've seen your house.
It is pristine.

Amanda (03:31):
I don't know.

Stef (03:32):
Like, you clearly don't have any recollection of what
it's like to live with tornadoes.
Like, to live with creatures that justare shedding Ritz Cracker stuff, and like,

Amanda (03:46):
those days.
I remember my floor would getsticky from holding, like, near his

Stef (03:49):
That was so

Amanda (03:53):
It would get, like, sticky near his, like, little, like,

Stef (03:57):
They're just sticky creatures.
They're always covered in crumbs.
Their face

Amanda (04:01):
Yeah, the ring, aw.

Stef (04:04):
knows what around it.
Yeah

Amanda (04:06):
You're, like, right in the middle of, like, stick zone.

Stef (04:09):
Stick

Amanda (04:10):
Like, everything's sticky.

Stef (04:11):
Oh, I thought you meant like they really like sticks,
which is also true at that age.
They're like sticks are

Amanda (04:16):
Like the band?
I'm kidding.

Stef (04:18):
Well, yeah, absolutely my kids are they really go into 70s 70s

Amanda (04:24):
I like sticks.
I don't care what anyone

Stef (04:25):
kind of

Amanda (04:26):
do, I like them!
I feel like they're kind of ajoke, but they shouldn't be.
And they're still touring, I thought.

Stef (04:32):
yeah.
Okay.

Amanda (04:32):
I thought so, yeah.

Stef (04:34):
profound amount of expertise on, on bands that are no longer in the zeitgeist
that are somehow also still touring.

Amanda (04:40):
I want to see so many bands but they don't come around here, it's really
Like Fred Meiergarden gets somegood things but they haven't
released their schedule yet.
We saw Tony Bennett there.

Stef (04:48):
That does not elicit any reaction from me you know who I'm seeing
that no one will recognize in May?
Um, a group called Bella and Sebastianthat was a really, yeah, I knew you
wouldn't, um, you should though,given your musical proclivities.
they were like

Amanda (05:03):
a,

Stef (05:04):
They were a British folky band from like the early

Amanda (05:07):
2000s.

Stef (05:09):
2000s.

Amanda (05:09):
and

Stef (05:10):
were very popular in the like indie, indie world around then.
nobody knows who they

Amanda (05:15):
They sound really good.

Stef (05:16):
Elder Millennials are the only people who know who they are.
But they're, they'regoing to be in Ann Arbor.
So I'm going by myself

Amanda (05:23):
I want to see Depeche Mode.
But it's like, the ticketsare insanely expensive.

Stef (05:29):
That doesn't surprise me.

Amanda (05:30):
And the closest Pulp is going to come is to Chicago.
and then Weezer and the FlamingLips are going to come to
Yes, they are gonna be together andit's I think Toronto and then I'm not
going yeah, these are all concerts.
I'm not going to go guys I Know but thatwas the closest they get and then I want
to see the flaming lips are gonna beat that Monroe place Yeah, yeah, I like

(05:54):
the flaming lips a

Stef (05:55):
It's in June or July.
I know!
I don't want to

Amanda (06:00):
want to stay overnight I'm so weird about concerts, but
the thing is, is that I alwaysregret it, my son loves Weezer,

Stef (06:07):
Weezer.
Which is hilarious

Amanda (06:09):
I know.
He loves Weezer.
He loves the book Dune.

Stef (06:12):
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's like Star Wars, it's part of that culture that
just kind of keeps getting passed down.
Um, 90s music, not so much, I feel

Amanda (06:22):
feel like.

Stef (06:23):
you know what?
On those days when you are feelinglike you just can't connect, With your
teenager and like you just like you feellike you just don't know him anymore.
Think about

Amanda (06:32):
Weezer.
I could think about, I sawWeezer in concert and he's
like, you saw Weezer in concert?
Like, yeah, I

Stef (06:37):
did.
That's the most, that'sthe most impressed he ever

Amanda (06:39):
I know, right?
That

Stef (06:41):
the most like level of interest he can, yeah.
Was it for

Amanda (06:46):
And you wanna talk about books?

Stef (06:48):
books?
Do we have to?
No.

Amanda (06:50):
no.

Stef (06:50):
Do you feel this profound need to change the subject

Amanda (06:52):
No, no, no, no, no.

Stef (06:54):
Let's hold off on talking about books and talk about Kate.
Okay.
What's happening with Kate?
I know that you know.
I know that the royal family,passes the inside scoop to you.
So what's happening with Kate?
Kate Middleton we're

Amanda (07:09):
Yes, Kate Middleton.
Or, as I call her, the Duchess ofOkay, let's just Princess Kate.

Stef (07:14):
You specifically call her

Amanda (07:15):
But let's When I call her on the phone, we're just gonna
call her Princess Catherine.
Um.

Stef (07:19):
Catherine.
Um.
But you guys probably haven't talked in a

Amanda (07:22):
Um.
She's not the Duchessof Cambridge anymore.
She's Princess Kate.
Okay.
Well, she's kind of like playinglike hard to get with me.
Um, that'll return to myphone calls Hard to get?

Stef (07:32):
Like, we

Amanda (07:33):
we used to talk about time on the phone, you know?
And then now she's just kind ofnot responding, which is okay.
She's busy with her three Butdo I think she's missing or
kidnapped or These other things?
No.

Stef (07:42):
She has the stomach issue,

Amanda (07:43):
she has every advantage in the world when it comes to medical issues
that the majority of the world doesn't.
So if anyone's gonna make it throughthere What do the kids think of this?
Like, what do their schoolmates say?

Stef (07:52):
I'm always baffled by what the experience might be for an actual
small child, like, being that.
And so much more so now than it would havebeen even when, Will and Harry were kids.
Because, like.
The internet is everywhere.

Amanda (08:04):
because, like, the internet is everywhere, like, these kids have,
they're just gonna be such a wreck.

Stef (08:19):
would just,

Amanda (08:20):
It's necessary, but it would send me into a tizzy, that your
kids are targets by kidnappers.
Nobody's trying to kidnap my child.

Stef (08:26):
That's good.

Amanda (08:27):
I know!

Stef (08:27):
Yeah.
Something to be thankful

Amanda (08:29):
Knock on wood!
Oh!
This

Stef (08:33):
okay.
Okay.

Amanda (08:35):
on

Stef (08:37):
okay for you to say it, but it's not okay for me

Amanda (08:40):
This is on air, this will haunt them, they'll play this at my

Stef (08:43):
No, they won't.
No one will rememberthis happened by then.
I mean, I love my kids, butthey're annoying sometimes.

Amanda (08:49):
like Holden is a good kid and I love him very much.
He's

Stef (08:54):
the

Amanda (08:54):
person to me.

Stef (08:55):
person to Ryan would

Amanda (08:59):
say that.
Well, Ryan, what he did

Stef (09:00):
did wrong, Well, I was making the crockpot,

Amanda (09:08):
your son on the air, but your husband is in the story.
I have to reserve my

Stef (09:29):
I have to reserve my opinions about the eating situation
in your house, because I havethoughts that I've shared, but

Amanda (09:34):
I know, I know, I know.
in our house we all share very differentdiets, and it can cause situations.
I'm a whole food
plant based,

Stef (09:42):
It's just you cook for them.

Amanda (09:44):
my diet is a lot.
It's a lot for a person.
it's just, I mean, to me, itprobably tastes good, but I
don't know any better now.

Stef (09:52):
You don't know.
Oh my gosh.
You make it

Amanda (09:54):
make it sound

Stef (09:55):
off pudding or

Amanda (09:56):
off pudding!
No!
I haven't had a processedanything since January 3rd.

Stef (10:00):
Well done,

Amanda (10:01):
I know.
So, my taste buds have changed.

Stef (10:03):
I desperately need to get back to that.
On that note, we've talkedabout nothing in particular.
This is nonsense.
we'll let this nonsense lead into ourguests this week, who I'm sure will
be horrified to be connected withanything that we just talked about.
Um, who is, who is verygracious to join us.
Um, join me.
just me, not Amanda this time, um,to join me to talk about, you know,

(10:25):
life growing up in this area and,and being representative, um, of our
constituents, his constituents, I suppose.
We, I don't have any constituents.
We just have our community.
our guest this week isRepresentative Pat Outman.
Amanda Lee is the director of theMontcalm area reading council.
Um, which has its office in our buildingand um, she's also a friend of mine.

(10:47):
So we've recorded together acouple times and we just end up
talking about really silly things.
every single time I do this withher, she'll have one thing at the
end where she'd be like, Oh, don'tlet anybody know I said that.
I'm not to sleep until you promise me

Pat (11:00):
you're going to do it.

Stef (11:00):
out.

Pat (11:00):
a good, you're a good I love it.

Stef (11:02):
so yeah, let's go ahead and get going.
I'm really happy thatyou were able to come in.
I will say also, I will sneakthis in because, I can't imagine
why you would know this yet.
I actually set up a time to,Have a conversation with your dad
also here in a couple of weeks.
So it

Pat (11:15):
I actually did know that.

Stef (11:17):
oh did.

Pat (11:17):
mentioned that to me last night.
Uh, I live next door to my parents,so I see, I see my dad a fair bit.
And, uh, yeah, so he mentioned that.
He's excited.
I

Stef (11:25):
Oh, great.
Okay.

Pat (11:26):
you guys have that planned,

Stef (11:27):
Yep, it's like two or three weeks out, so that'll be fun.
I should just get the whole family, Why

Pat (11:31):
not?
Might as well invite my wife to come in

Stef (11:33):
in.
Oh yeah, you know what?
I love, I love interviewingmarried couples.
It's so much fun.
especially when I ask them the samequestion and see what, yeah, it's
a little like the newlywed game.

Pat (11:42):
newlyweds.
Exactly.

Stef (11:43):
exactly.
for anyone who doesn'trecognize your voice.
could you tell us who you are,where you are on an average day,
and, what you've got going on these

Pat (11:51):
days.
Sure, sure.
Well, I'm State Representative Pat Outman.
I represent, uh, the 91st District, whichincludes, uh, parts of three counties.
Majority of it consists of Montcombe, butI also represent portions of, of northern
Ionia and, uh, northern Kent County.
like I said, I, am a staterepresentative, so I spend a lot of
time in Lansing at our state capitol.
I spend a fair bit in districtas well, uh, meeting with folks,

(12:11):
going to various, organizationalmeetings, uh, things like that.
a little bit about me.
I, my wife and I, we justwelcomed our second baby into this
world, uh, about four weeks ago.
So

Stef (12:23):
Wow.

Pat (12:24):
with a newborn at home and, uh, you know, it's exhausting,
but, uh, we're really enjoying it.
Yeah,

Stef (12:28):
Yeah, you are right in the thick of it

Pat (12:30):
Absolutely.
And we have a toddler athome, too, so that just

Stef (12:33):
Wow.
my heart goes to you.
It really does.
Uh, my, I've got two kids too, butmine are about four years apart.
I could make my four year oldunderstand at the time, like, you
need to give me some space, kid.
He was old enough to get it,but, how old is your oldest?

Pat (12:49):
he's about a year and a half, he doesn't understand the
concept of personal space yet.
We're

Stef (12:53):
Oh, yeah, okay.
Pretty mobile too, I would imagine.

Pat (12:57):
mobile.
Constantly chasing him down.
Our whole house is a big hazard.
We live in

Stef (13:02):
in an old house.
So,

Pat (13:04):
there's that component as well.

Stef (13:05):
I live in an older house too.
And actually I'm getting ready tomove here just across the street into

Pat (13:10):
Oh my gosh, congra congratulations.

Stef (13:11):
Thank you.
Um, and I love old houses, but I,I've thought multiple times, when
these people built these houses, didthey understand that they were going
to have to have children in them?
assuming they did

Pat (13:24):
and I'm assuming they did because back then they had like 12

Stef (13:26):
house.
Uh,

Pat (13:27):
but yeah, this house has zero storage.
The layout is very questionable andthe electrical outlet is very fun.
There's very few of those as well.
And so we're doing the best we canbut it's certainly a challenge.

Stef (13:43):
as far as I remember, you're still kind of, you're exhausted.
You're still kind of just likegetting into the groove of it.
But, um, but they're stillkind of sleeping at that point.

Pat (13:51):
That's right.
we're both absolutely exhausted.
We walk around like zombiesall the time, but it's

Stef (13:55):
You look very bright and alert today, I will give you credit for

Pat (13:58):
appreciate that looks can be deceiving.
that, but uh, but yeah, I mean,sleeps and eats all the time.
So it's very consistent.
Uh, you can schedule around it.
The toddler is just a complete chaos.
There's organized chaos, but

Stef (14:11):
how does the toddler feel about Are they both boys?

Pat (14:13):
They're both boys.
my son Miles, he, it's been alittle bit of an adjustment for him.
I will say that, uh, I don't eventhink he acknowledged our, our,
uh, baby for the first week or so.
And he's warming up to him now.
He'll give him a pet here and there and,uh, likes to steal his bankie, of course.
But, uh, I think we're makingprogress on that front.

Stef (14:34):
is your wife home with them or?

Pat (14:36):
She is.
she'll be on maternity leave forat least another six weeks so.
And like I said before, we liveright next door to my parents and

Stef (14:44):
Right.
Oh, that's

Pat (14:45):
that has been an absolute blessing.
My, my mom is able tohelp out a lot as well.
it's been nice.

Stef (14:50):
they like being grandparents?

Pat (14:52):
They love it.
Uh, when you invite my dad on here,that might be all he will talk about.
So you'll have to steer theconversation at some point,
but they absolutely love it.
Uh, my, my older sister has kidsas well, but lives out of state.
So these are like the

Stef (15:05):
like the first.
Yeah, they're local.
Yeah,

Pat (15:07):
Really enjoying

Stef (15:08):
feeling.

Pat (15:09):
And it's a blessing to us too.

Stef (15:10):
having a support system when their kids are that young.
Just, it can, you can take itfor granted, it makes all the

Pat (15:16):
all the difference.
Oh my gosh, well I tell people all thetime, like, that is the only parenting
hack that I found actually works.
It's just, move next door to your parents.

Stef (15:23):
to your parents.
Yeah.
And hopefully they are, still interestedin being around children and they're
not just like, I did this already.
I'm done.

Pat (15:30):
yeah.

Stef (15:31):
I'm assuming that you've obviously been in this area for at
least most of your life, if not all.
So what have been your favoritememories about, growing up in this area?
Yeah,

Pat (15:41):
Yeah, you're right.
I've lived in this area my entire life.
Uh, even when I went off tocollege, I commuted back and forth.
So I've truly, uh, have lived inMontcalm County my entire life.
Uh, very happy childhood.
Uh, grew up with justtons of family around.
Aunts, uncles, cousins, uh, grandparents.
I had a, uh, set of grandparentsthat lived just north of

(16:01):
Lakeview and had a farm there.
So I spent a fair bit of time there.
Uh, just, just a really happychildhood and so many good memories
to be quite honest with you.
Um, you know, things like ridingbikes with my friends around.
We rode our bikes just everywheregrowing up, Attending the, the annual
4 H Fair in the summer, uh, bringsback really fond memories as well.

(16:22):
And really all the fairs andfestivals around here as well.
Seems like every small town hasa, has a parade and a festival
and, very fond memories of, goingto those growing up as well.
And then just, you know, playing sportsand, and just hanging out with my friends.
I just, you know, I look backat my childhood and, just very
fond memories all the way around.

Stef (16:39):
I have the bias of having had this experience as well, but there's something
to be said about sort of growing up inthat small town experience to growing
up in that semi rural experience,getting to have fun in a small town.
outdoor capacity.
I would imagine it's got tobe a lot harder if if you live
someplace much more urban that,you get to send the kids outdoors.

Pat (16:58):
Yeah, and I live about 20 minutes north of here.
So like the Six Lakes area.
And for those that are not familiar,Uh, it's a small rural community
in northern Montcalm County.
that was just my life growing up.
Just out in the wide open country,just hanging out with my friends.

Stef (17:13):
Is that the same area you grew up in?

Pat (17:15):
in?
It is.
Yep.
Still live on my family farm.
Haven't, haven't made it too far in life.

Stef (17:19):
Okay.
So did you build on their property then?
Is that how you ended up living next door?

Pat (17:24):
Uh, no.
I actually live in, inthe oldest house on that

Stef (17:27):
property.
Oh, right.
Because you said it was an old house.
Silly me.
I've already forgotten.

Pat (17:31):
forgotten.
Yes, yes.
So this is like, uh,almost a centennial farm.
we've, occupied this, this, uh, thisspace for, uh, nearly a hundred years now.
And, um, so my parents actuallyare the ones that, that built

Stef (17:43):
Oh, okay.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Okay.

Pat (17:44):
so, uh, live right next door to them.
Now I gotta ask you, areyou from around this area?

Stef (17:49):
Um, nobody ever asks me questions and it takes me a little off guard.
Um, I am from Lowell originally.
So that's where I grew upand, you know, went to school.
my parents still live right on the borderbetween, um, the Lowell and Ada area.
So just outside of Ada.
Um, which means of course their,their property value has just
gone way through the roof in the

Pat (18:09):
I could imagine.

Stef (18:10):
yeah.
I went to Central Michigan for myundergrad and then I, uh, flitted off
to Colorado for about a decade justto do something different because I
went to graduate school out there.
Um, and I will say that I, I lovedso many things about Colorado.
Um, there were lots of thingsto appreciate and there is
interestingly enough a decentlylarge contingent of people from

(18:34):
Michigan who do move out there.
And also, Who end up moving back.
it's a funny thing, but, um,there are lots of aspects of
living in that area that made mereally appreciate here as well.
there were things that, that comingback that I like little things that
you wouldn't necessarily think about.
like those festivals that youmentioned, like that's, So many of

(18:55):
the, the towns that have sprung upin that Denver corridor, they've
been there for about 15 minutes.
They just don't have any history.
Like the entire town is built aroundWalmart, which is very convenient,
but it doesn't, it definitely doesn'thave that same sort of hominess.
Yeah,

Pat (19:10):
and I can totally see that.
Especially a place like Denverthat just never stops growing.

Stef (19:14):
stops growing.

Pat (19:15):
I'm actually ashamed to say I've never been to Colorado.

Stef (19:17):
Well, you know what?
I had not been West of theMississippi until I moved out there.
So no shame on you.

Pat (19:22):
Okay.
I still got time.

Stef (19:23):
to change gears a little bit, obviously you've got a little
bit of, a little bit of history inthe family, but what inspired you
to, to get into state legislature?

Pat (19:31):
Oh gosh.
I mean, so many things really.
Um, you know, obviously my dad wasprobably my biggest inspiration.
I, through his experience, I really didjust fall in love with the legislature
and, Just the ability to shape policy andto have the opportunity to, to represent
the state with its 10 million residents.
it was something that, reallycalled to me in a lot of ways.
And, you know, I think I alwayshad a calling to service.

(19:54):
Um, one of my biggest regretsin life was, was not serving
our country in the military.
And so, Like I said, I feel likeI've always had some sort of sense
of calling to serve this countryand nation in some capacity.
so, when the opportunity arose torun for this office, I jumped at it.
I always knew I would run foroffice, I just, I thought I would
do it later in life, like my father.

(20:15):
I thought maybe once I retired becausein Michigan we have such strict term
limits, that's another aspect of things.
It's really hard to, uh, Pause your lifefor, for six years and, and run for public
office, I just jumped at it, and I haveno regrets, uh, I love every minute of it.
it's a really challenging time tobe in politics and to serve the
people, just, uh, given the divisionin this country, but, other than

(20:37):
that, I mean, just no regrets.
I absolutely love the job.
I absolutely love, love representingthe, the 91st District and, and all
the people of, of Montcalm County.
it's been a tremendous honor.

Stef (20:47):
fantastic.
I would imagine, a fair amount ofsuccess definitely comes from Being
a good listener and being comfortablehaving conversations with people who
might come at you feeling very strongly

Pat (20:57):
Yeah.
Oh, no question.
I mean, one thing I've learned fromthis position, Steph, is people just
want to be heard, for the most part.
I've had so many, People call theoffice, just fire it right up, and
uh, chew in my staff out, and then Iget on the phone with them, and just
listen to them, and by the end of it,we have a very cordial, you know, great
conversation, to honest with you, so.

Stef (21:15):
and that kind of goes back to what we were talking about before we actually,
you know, hit the ground with us.
the way we experience so much ofthe world around us these days,
it's all hitting us at once.
Like, with the internet, it's,it's, you know, everything is right
in front of our faces and we'rebeing inundated and overwhelmed.
It's hard to process it, and it doesn'tfeel natural, we are driven to engage

(21:36):
with the people around us, to learnabout our community directly, from
our community, from our neighbors,and, it's stretching us in a way
And so, having those conversations,I can imagine it makes.
A very meaningful differencefor a lot of people.

Pat (21:48):
think it does.
I, I think, I truly think that people, alot of times, they just want to be heard.
Whether you even agree with them atthe end of the day, you heard their
concerns, you had a great conversation,you took the time to listen to them,
and I think that goes a long way.
and you're dead on about, uh, social mediaand, you know, Facebook in particular.
It's a, it's really easy to siloyourself off with social media.
Um, you know, you don't have thatdirect, uh, Uh, connection with

(22:10):
folks that you're, speaking to,like, like you do face to face.
It's really easy to just hurlan insult out via the keyboard.
you don't see how people react to it.
So it's really easy toinsult somebody that way.
we're losing that directconnection with people.
Yeah,

Stef (22:22):
we don't have the context of a whole human being anymore when we, um, we
think of people as a sort of token issuesthat you're either for or against, you're
on one side or the other and there's solittle middle ground, it's hard to see
some of those things there are so manyfactors that made you feel this in this
moment about you as a person and yeah.

Pat (22:43):
Yeah, no question about it.
I still think, though, that we, at theend of the day, we have way more in
common than And I, I hope people will,can just sit back and remember that.
I know it's hard to sometimes,but I really do believe that.
Yeah, definitely.

Stef (22:56):
obviously there are unique aspects of state government, but, Would you say
that there's anything in particular that,feels like state legislature was just
a good place for you to, to dive in?

Pat (23:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm one that justloves working on policy.
Um, and so from that perspective, this jobis, is, you know, a perfect fit for me.
I love looking at a piece oflegislation and, and scrutinizing
it, trying to make it better, uh,trying to make it palatable, uh,
something that, you know, will benefitmy district and things like that.

(23:28):
there, there are so many uniqueaspects of state government.
The state government is prettymuch structured identically to our

Stef (23:34):
federal government.

Pat (23:35):
in terms of, the legislative branch, the executive branch, judicial
branch, we have a, a bicameral Congress,meaning we have a House and a Senate,
uh, so it, it really is structured,you know, identical, but there are some
aspects that, that make it, uh, prettyunique, and one is just, and I think
we talked about this earlier, but justthe close proximity to constituents.

(23:56):
You know, these really are my,my friends and neighbor that I'm
representing down in Lansing.
In, in state legislatures, um,they're a much smaller district.
Uh, it just allows for more directinteraction with constituents and
your representatives that way.

Stef (24:10):
do you feel like your experience of it as a representative for a more rural
district is different than, say, forlike, you know, Oakland County or the,

Pat (24:19):
Oh, no, no question about it.
that's where you see a lot of,uh, debate and, and, and whatnot
in, in the state legislature.
It's because we are representativesfrom all different parts of the

Stef (24:31):
Right,

Pat (24:32):
Different values, different perspectives, uh, different
demographics, things like that.
So You know, a lot of times, um, I'll havea conversation with my, uh, colleagues
that, you know, represent a, a urban area.
And, uh, and had to explain to them, thisis why we don't like this legislation.
Uh, just because it, it affects ruralMichigan more, in a different way than

(24:53):
it does, in an urban setting Like inOakland County, like a, like a Wayne
County, like a City of Detroit, etc.
Uh, but that makes it fun, too.
it truly is a melting pot, thelegislature, of, of different people,
different perspectives, things like that.
So it, you know, it makes it challenging,but it also makes it really fun as well.

Stef (25:10):
I would imagine a unique challenge to bringing that rural perspective as
well is the fact that, simply by trying toapply resources to, um, the largest number
of people, I'm sure it's easy for a lot offocus to end up on those more urban areas.
And there has to be a certain amountof advocacy just for, like, we may

(25:32):
have fewer people in our In ourconstituency, but our voices still matter.

Pat (25:37):
no question.
That's always a balancing actand that's always a challenge.
You know, the urban areas, theyobviously have more population and so
you see a lot more resources go thereand, and a lot of other things too.
It can be frustrating at times,but that certainly is, an
accurate assumption, I would say.

Stef (25:50):
I know that one thing that there's been so much conversation
about, how to, improve the situationis specifically making, internet access
available to a broader range of people.
And I think it's really easy to forgetin 2024 how many families, how many homes
don't even have access to that currently.
No

Pat (26:08):
I mean, really COVID highlighted that for me, uh, when everybody
suddenly had to work from home, kidsare scrambling to learn from home.
It's like, oh, my gosh, broadbandaccess, high speed internet
access, reliable internet access.
it's not uniform across the board.
And

Stef (26:22):
Right.
Absolutely.
as a legislator, we'vebeen trying to incentivize

Pat (26:25):
these telecommunications companies.
let's expand into these underserved areas.
I know it's not economical for you.
How can we make it economicalin this day and age, it's a lot
better to have reliable internet.

Stef (26:35):
It's essential.
Yeah, it's, it's become an essentialservice and I know we see every day
the cross section of people who don'thave access for whatever reason,
either because they can't afford adevice, they can't afford, they can't
afford the service, whatever, or theyjust simply don't have access to it.
so we see a lot of people who come tous because There's no way around it.
they're applying for jobs,they're managing, you know,

(26:57):
social security benefits.
there's any number of things thatthey might, they have to work with
a doctor's office and they have,documents they have to send and whatnot.
You can't avoid technology.
It's not

Pat (27:06):
you and I know it's a challenge for some of our, our older citizens.
There's been so many times wherethey're struggling with, uh, with
a government department because ofthat, that learning curve in terms
of technology and we constantly haveto walk them through the process and,
and try to assist them in that regard.
So, it's a blessing and a curseall at once, I, I would say.

Stef (27:25):
you're not Yeah, so

Pat (27:31):
I spend a lot of my downtime in the fall and winter when there's
just not as much going on locally.
Uh, a lot of my hobbies are,are, revolve around the outdoors.
I, I love hunting and fishing.
I think every, every October and November,my wife wants to divorce me because
every opportunity again, I'm just in outin the woods, sitting in my tree stand.

Stef (27:51):
What do they call them?
The, the hunting widows or

Pat (27:53):
Yes.
that's probably accurate.
My wife could probably attest to that,
I spend a lot of time reading as well.
Uh, actually currently reading areally good fictional series right now.
hunting, reading.
I have a lot of power sports, you know,snowmobiles, uh, ATVs, things like that.
Really anything.
I just kind of gravitatetowards the outdoors.

Stef (28:11):
some regards.
Oh, no.
I mean, this is reallythe perfect state for

Pat (28:17):
never.
I mean, this is reallythe perfect state for me.
I mean, there's trulyalways something to do.
so many great state parksand just, uh, you know.
So much access to the lakeshore.
Uh, it's such a diverse and beautifulstate and um, I think that's why I
could never leave it, to be quite

Stef (28:32):
it.
Yeah, yeah, you get,you get spoiled a little

Pat (28:35):
Yeah, a little bit.
what about you?
What do you like to, like to do when

Stef (28:38):
keep turning this on.
I guess you don't normally get to do that,

Pat (28:41):
if I try to ask a reporter a question back, they, uh, you
know, they don't typically.
Yeah, exactly.
This about you representative.
do you have any hobbies?
I assume you read a lot.

Stef (28:51):
I do, although not nearly as much as I used to, um, because, you know,
there's just never enough time in theday, and I've got two young kids, too.
I crochet a lot.
I, I really enjoy making things.
I like to figure things out,usually it's like at any given time
there's some new thing that I'm,I'm trying to figure out how to do.
when the ISD was here a few weeks ago,they were talking about the career center

(29:15):
and all of the different, um, academicpaths that the kids could go on to do
these different trades or what have you.
And I, and while they were talking aboutit, I was thinking to myself, man, I
want to do every single one of those.
I want to learn, Diesel engines.
I want to learn construction stuff.
I want to learn the animal husbandry.
I want to do all of it.

(29:35):
Oh,

Pat (29:35):
I know.
I literally had to stop myselffrom signing up for random
classes at the community

Stef (29:40):
college.
Right.
Just because

Pat (29:41):
because there's so many cool things to do.
And, yeah, the Career Center.
I participated in thatas a student growing

Stef (29:46):
were you on?

Pat (29:47):
So I did the automotive

Stef (29:49):
Oh, cool.
Okay.
And, honestly, I did

Pat (29:51):
I did it just to get out of school for a few hours, but I ended
up finding out I really enjoyed it.
It

Stef (29:55):
Right, yeah.

Pat (29:56):
had some great instructors there, and so we were absolutely blessed to
have a great career center around here.
Yeah,

Stef (30:02):
it's, it's fantastic and it's nice and close by too, which is great.
Um, when I was growing up in Lowell,we could take advantage of Kent Career
Center, um, but it was still a littlebit of a trek, and, I'm glad that it
seems more kids are being encouraged tofollow those paths, I am one of those
weirdos that thinks that, um, it's greatto provide opportunities for people

(30:23):
To go through, college if that's whatthey want to do, if that's their path.
But, if there's a road that theycan go down that, that takes them
towards a particular trade orprepares them for the world in a
different way, then we should honor

Pat (30:36):
Oh, no question about it.
Yeah, there's so many great opportunitieswithin like the skilled trades or really
any of that and so Yeah, I mean kids don'thave to you know a four year institution
is not always for some students Especiallywith as big of an investment as it is
nowadays college that is so I mean if youcan, you know get a leg up go to career
center learn a skill and then Progress inlife that way that's that's a great path

Stef (31:00):
Yeah, and those kids come out in some cases, prepared to actually
enter the workforce immediately,

Pat (31:04):
Oh, yeah, most cases they do.
These are such high demand

Stef (31:08):
Yeah, absolutely.

Pat (31:09):
And, we're kind of facing a labor cliff in Michigan a little bit.
We, you know, we have a populationproblem and then we have, an entire
generation that's on the cusp of retiring.
And so if we can build thatpipeline, you know, the best we can,
I think it'll benefit the state.

Stef (31:22):
it would be good for us culturally
to talk more about those paths
with the same value as going to college.
we put a lot of value in that socially.
it's just a choice.
we all have our path.
devaluing anything that is notspecifically the four year college.
It's, it's very misleading.

Pat (31:39):
Yeah, it is.
I think we've put too muchemphasis on the, on the college
prep aspect of things in school.
that's great.
And we shouldn't stop doing that, butwe should also, uh, we should emphasize
some of these other paths as well.
get people, prepared for,for life beyond K through 12.
there's some great opportunities outthere aside from going to a four year
institution or a community college even.

Stef (32:00):
we talked about the, the young kids a little bit already.
how much different does it feel like nowhaving that extra loud voice in the house?

Pat (32:06):
in the house?
Well, it, you know, it'scertainly challenging.
Uh, like I said, we livein a very small house.
Oh,

Stef (32:13):
small house,

Pat (32:13):
a lot of my job,

Stef (32:14):
Echoey,

Pat (32:15):
yeah, a lot of my job consists of virtual meetings.

Stef (32:18):
meetings.
Oh, okay.

Pat (32:19):
I have Preface every meeting with, you know, I apologize.
You're probably going to hear ascreaming toddler at some point.
it's certainly been challenging, butjust, uh, just rewarding at times.
And I, I told you, I have atremendous amount of help.
Like I said, I live next door my parents.
Uh, it's been such a blessing to havethem, um, help out as much as they do.
And so I can just send the kids overthere for a quick bit if I need to, two

(32:41):
kids under two, it can be a challenge.

Stef (32:43):
even just two kids in general because you're no
longer, what is it they say?
You go man to man instead of, um,instead of zone coverage for the kids.

Pat (32:52):
Right.
Well, actually opposite, uh, theother way around, I think, uh,
uh, at some point, I don't know.
I'm not good at sports, there's acorrect reference there somewhere, but
you get spread pretty thin, that's sure.
And I, I feel bad.
I, I have a job that requiresme to be gone quite a bit.
And so.
Um, my poor wife, she's stuck athome with the kids a lot, but she,
uh, she managed it just, just fine,

Stef (33:13):
There, there are some people who are just equipped for that.
And I've.
I've had the privilege to work witha lot of those families because I
was a youth librarian for years andyears, the Storytime families were
frequently the families that, that hadone parent that spent a lot of time
at home with the kids and they're notalways women, um, but primarily women
and, um, they are just miracle workers.

Pat (33:38):
like.
Oh, they really

Stef (33:39):
Yeah, I, like, I, I was never a stay at home parent and I am.
In awe of what they do andhow much energy goes into it.
And you are on all the time.
Oh,

Pat (33:51):
no question about You have no choice.
You have to be on all the time.
Uh, I would pull my hair out,I think, if I was a stay at

Stef (33:57):
think.
Me too, me too.
I enjoy my job.
the balance is definitely nice.

Pat (34:02):
How old are your kids?
I know you said earlier.

Stef (34:04):
earlier.
Uh, my, my youngest is three,and my oldest is seven.
first grade here at Baldwin Heights.
he's a little more independent these days,but, they're both very strong willed.
They both have some big personalities at

Pat (34:14):
Oh, sure.
Well, that's a great ages.

Stef (34:15):
Yeah.
when I first interviewed for thisposition, I was just finishing up
maternity leave with my youngest.
And so, and we were stilldoing virtual interviews.
So I, I was interviewing virtually inthe only, like the only room I could find
that you could hopefully not hear allthe chaos in another part of the house.

(34:36):
I remember them saying like, it'sa little dark where you're at.
And I'm like, I, I had to improvise.

Pat (34:40):
had to improvise here.
Especially when they'rereally little, yeah.
Finding spots for infants

Stef (35:03):
really little, yeah, finding spots for infants is very tough.
Yeah, I can imagine.
Um,

Pat (35:08):
Um, we,

Stef (35:09):
we made it work.
we were able to wait a little bit of timefor both kids to put them in daycare,
but they were both in it under one.
we moved, my oldest into a preschoolprogram at Faith Community Christian
here just, just outside of Belding.
they had a nice little classroom cohort,so they were mostly just, there were
five other kids that they were with.
And that was, that was perfect.

(35:30):
we've been lucky, but I feel likethere is an advantage, especially once
they get maybe two ish or older, to,to have them have that opportunity
to, to be around other childrenregularly, because it prepares them
a lot more for when they're older.
Um, kids that, that come to kindergartenon the first day that have spent
most of their time at home, it'sa big, it's a big transition for

Pat (35:53):
question about it.
Yeah, and that's something we gottawork on with my son, because, like I
said, we live next door to my parents.
And so he's either at ourhouse or my parents house.
He really doesn't have a tonof interaction with other kids.
And been slowly trying to introducehim to, uh, to various things.
We do, we started this like, uh, Toddlertime thing up in Grand Rapids just to
get them some of that social interaction.
I think that is important.

Stef (36:14):
It is, yeah.
I'm not an early childhoodexpert, but I think it actually,
does something significant tohow their brain develops, too.
as they transition from, this conceptof like, I can't remember what it's
called, but it's, it's basically whenthey're, they're not playing with
the other children yet, but they'rekind of playing right next to them.
So they're comfortable with them intheir space and then moving from that
to actually engaging and that havingthat, um, that connection made in

(36:39):
their brain hopefully you're morecomfortable with people older you get.
obviously you talked a little bitabout how even just being part of the
legislature has changed since whenyour dad would have started how do you
think, what's sort of important for yourcommunity and for your constituents?
How do you think that'schanged since, 20 years ago?

Pat (37:01):
state government at this point.
You know, no shortage of, ofthings to divide us nowadays.
And I feel like, and we talked aboutthis earlier, social media really

(37:21):
amplifies that division in a lot of ways.
that really wasn't as prevalentwhen my dad first got into politics.
But now it's, it'spretty much unavoidable.
Uh, Yeah, certainly.
I am a one specific party, but I,I have to represent everybody the
best I can, so it's, maybe I don'trepresent you well on this issue,
but I hope I represent you well onthis other issue and, and vice versa.

(37:42):
But, uh, Yeah, just the division haschanged a lot, made it more challenging
to serve, but, you know, really theneeds of the communities, those are
still the same, it seems like, fromwhen my dad first got involved.
Whether, you know, wehave a housing shortage,
you know, our communitiesstill aren't getting the share
of state resources at all.
as other parts of the state while it'schanged quite a bit at the same, at
the same, time, the issues have kindof stayed the same, Michigan's kind

(38:03):
of unique in a sense that we don'treally have a diversified economy.
Everything is just sotied to the auto industry.
Even, you know, even a lot of thelocal manufacturing around here, so.
something happens in that sectorof the economy, you know, we're
kind of held hostage in a lot of

Stef (38:19):
Yeah,

Pat (38:20):
you know, and so, uh, trying to diversify our economy the best we can,
although it's kind of a challenge upin rural Michigan, just given given
the resources and other challengesthat we have, but, uh, but, you know,
housing was one that's been just, you

Stef (38:32):
just a

Pat (38:34):
prevalent one throughout the last number of years because you
want your kids to stay close to you.
you want, uh, to have that relationshipand, and if there's not housing available,
they're, they're going to go elsewhere.
And we're seeing that,you know, take place.
A a lot of younger peopleare, are getting out of Dodge.
And

Stef (38:49):
then on the flip side, a lot of, you know, older people are, are staying
in their homes for much longer too.
Yeah, so there's not as much

Pat (38:57):
Oh, no question.
This is a real estate market.
It's a kind of a supplyand demand issue here.
try buying a house right now.
I mean, no, it's not fun.
Uh, it's not.
Oh, we're building one for that matter.
And, you

Stef (39:13):
buying a second house, it definitely, it's a very different
situation than trying to getinto it for the first time.

Pat (39:19):
No question about it.
And we, we just bought ourfirst house a couple years ago.
prior to that I just, I rented aplace and, um, you know, that worked
well for a time, but at some pointit's you wanna own the house that you

Stef (39:29):
want to own the so when, when you were a kid, were you
a school person or a non school

Pat (39:40):
You know,

Stef (39:40):
you like going to school?

Pat (39:42):
it's, it's funny because I'm one that looks and looks at my
school years as really fond memories.
I, uh I absolutely lovethe school I went to.
I went to Lakeview.
It's just a small school innorthern Montcombe County,

Stef (39:53):
Oh, is

Pat (39:54):
Oh, really?
Okay.
Uh, my parents as well, basically my wholefamily for the most part went to Lakeview.
And so, we are Wildcatsthrough and through.
Um, but, you know, it's funny, I wasn'tnecessarily a school person, per se.
I, uh, academically speaking, Ididn't take it very seriously.
I didn't get serious about it until myhigher education career, when I started
paying for my own college, and then I

Stef (40:15):
took it very seriously after that.
I

Pat (40:16):
I took it very seriously after that, I hate to even admit this, but I was,
uh, I was a very naughty kid growing up.
constantly getting into trouble,uh, hard time staying in my seat.
Uh, all harmless fun.
I just like to mess around with my friendsand, uh, not take anything too seriously.
But I, I, I certainlyenjoyed school growing up.
It's fun running into my former teachers.

Stef (40:37):
Oh yeah,

Pat (40:38):
they're just like, really?
I'm surprised this is thecareer path you chose.

Stef (40:41):
you chose.
Oh, well, okay.
that was another question I asked.
was there a time that you hadsomething else that you wanted
to do when you were growing up?

Pat (40:48):
There was, uh, you know, so I spent most of my, uh, my younger
years, you know, planning to takeover my family's excavating business.

Stef (40:57):
So,

Pat (40:58):
uh, excavating, home construction, uh, I wanted to
be a farmer on the side as well.
Uh, so, so most of mylife that was my plan.
but, um, you know, I, God always hasa different plan for you, and so when
this opportunity, presented itself,I, I jumped at it, but, it was not my
plan, and if I did run for office, itwas going to be, you know, later on

(41:18):
in my life, maybe my retirement age.

Stef (41:21):
be, you know, later on in my life.
Or maybe my retirement age.
You know,

Pat (41:30):
You know, it's funny.
I never had, uh, had big aspirationslike that for whatever reason.
I always just wantedto do what my dad did.
And, uh, so if he was going tobe, uh, you know, a postmaster, I
probably would have been a postmaster.
you know, I was kind of one of thosekids to be quite honest with you.
while other kids were, um,you know, being, Begging to
hang out with their friends.
I was begging my dad totake me to work with them.

(41:51):
I just wanted to be anexcavator and a farmer and,
yeah, obviously I took a different route.

Stef (41:57):
that's one of the aspects of, State Legislature, too, is that it doesn't
become your whole life, either, so.

Pat (42:03):
my I serve with people from all walks of life.
I mean, they could be a dietician.
Uh, builder.
They could be a farmer.
They could be a doctor, alawyer, a lot of lawyers.
So, you just never know.
Uh, that is kind of the, one of theunique perspectives of state legislature.
These are citizen legislatorsfor the most part.

Stef (42:20):
Right.
Part time, so to speak.
Not exactly part time, butyes, not your whole life.
Yeah.
Yeah, which I think there's definitelysome value to that because anything like
this that you spend your whole careerdoing something specific, even with the
best intentions, I feel like it wouldstill be easy to sort of lose track of
what life looks like from the outside.

Pat (42:41):
about it.
I don't want to knock career politicians,but there is a benefit, to bringing
a different perspective to, to thelegislative branch of government.
No question about it.

Stef (42:51):
so the core concept behind the podcast, of course, was this idea
of like how comforting it is to justsort of lounge on the front porch
and engage with the people in yourfamily and the people who live around

Pat (43:02):
I love

Stef (43:02):
So thank you.
Um, so I have to ask, Doesyour family have a front porch?

Pat (43:08):
They do and they, they did.
Yeah, we had a nice,uh, covered front porch.
uh, it kind of overlookedone of our hay fields.

Stef (43:16):
Ooh, okay.

Pat (43:17):
know, it faced the east, so it was really ideal for sunrises.
yeah, we loved the front porch.
Had a nice, uh, a niceswing on it as well.
I spent a lot of time out therereading and, you know, family
birthdays, things like that.
It was well utilized.

Stef (43:30):
Yeah, no question about it.
And now

Pat (43:36):
And now that we've all moved out of the house, sadly, now there's
just a herd of cats out there on the

Stef (43:40):
Oh,

Pat (43:41):
porch, it seems like.
constitutes a herd?
Oh gosh, uh, you know, there, therecould be half a dozen, there could be a

Stef (43:48):
there

Pat (43:49):
could be 20.
I don't really know.
Do

Stef (43:51):
be 20, I don't really know.
They are essentially barn cats, and they

Pat (43:57):
They are essentially cats and they multiply like crazy.
Uh, my just constantly are to the elevatorbuying these big bags of cat food.
To feed these critters, but,uh, yeah, it's sadly our front
porch is a bit reduced to that.

Stef (44:11):
our front porch has been reduced

Pat (44:15):
Yeah, very much so.
We don't want to haveferal cats running around.

Stef (44:19):
very much so.
don't want to have

Pat (44:25):
right.
It's right.

Stef (44:26):
So, you said you were reading something, like there
was a series you were now.
What is it that you're working through?
So,

Pat (44:31):
through?
So, it's the last Kingdom series.
It actually turned into a television show.
But I've been reading this author,this guy named Bernard Cornwell,

Stef (44:38):
named Bernard Cornwell.
Yes,

Pat (44:39):
time.
So, this is about the

Stef (44:41):
uh,

Pat (44:42):
formation of modern day England, essentially.
It takes place in the 11th century.
This is when, You had England, butit had a bunch of different kingdoms.
know, there wasn't a centralkingdom there, and they were
fighting the Danes all the time.
Uh, so this is the formationmodern day England.
a guy named Alfred the Great, the only,the only, uh, king that they called a

(45:03):
great in England, uh, pretty much, uh,assembled all the kingdoms and, and,
uh, started pushing off the Danes.
And that's this story is about.
I've been reading it for about a year now.
There's like 13 books within this series.

Stef (45:13):
this Okay.
Is it, is it um, historicalfiction or fantasy?

Pat (45:17):
fantasy?
It's, uh, I categorizeit as historical fiction.
It fiction, but it's basedon a lot of real events.

Stef (45:24):
real events.

Pat (45:25):
you know, some of the characters are real, some of them are made up.
Uh, so kind of a hybridin between those two.

Stef (45:30):
hybrid between those two.
No, uh, I

Pat (45:33):
No, uh, I mean there, well there is a little bit, they, there, there
is a little bit of magic within itas well, but like, uh, shamanistic
kind of Um, so there just a touch of

Stef (45:45):
of that.
Yeah,

Pat (45:47):
low key.

Stef (45:47):
key.
Yeah, okay.
That is the fantasy thatI can deal with, too.
Like, anything that is, um, The namethat comes to mind, if you ever read them
when you were younger, is, uh, there's aseries, by a woman named Anne McCaffrey,
who does the Planet Full of Dragons pern.
Like, she had a whole series about

Pat (46:04):
Okay, no, I'm actually not

Stef (46:05):
But, um, yeah, anything that, you have to learn the entire world.
It's, I, again, respect for peoplewho can immerse themselves in that.
Um, something that has historicalbasis like that, I, I'm much
more comfortable that too.
Definitely.

Pat (46:20):
and, you know, I gravitate more towards, uh,

Stef (46:23):
uh,

Pat (46:23):
Non fiction historical books.
I read a ton of those.
I love biographies and things like But,uh, but, you know, I'm all over the place.
I mean, I grew up reading Harry Potter.
Those are absolutely some of myfavorite books still to this day.
It's funny

Stef (46:38):
It's funny you mention that because the, the one conversation I've
had thus far with your dad was, whichwas for the advocacy day last year.
Um, and, you know, of course wewere talking about libraries.
Um, I remember him bringing up HarryPotter and reading it with y'all when

Pat (46:51):
you were young.
Yeah, actually funny story about that.
So my, my dad and I read thatseries at the exact same we would
buy, uh, you know, typically onecopy of the book as they came out.
And, uh, it was always acompetition who could read it first.
And so I'm, I'm rushing home fromschool, reading as much as I can.
My dad staying up way past hisbedtime reading as much as I can.
I would get so mad if he'd get too farahead of me in the uh, yeah, really fond

(47:15):
memories of reading that series together.
Absolutely.

Stef (47:18):
Right, and if you've got the same copy, I

Pat (47:19):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it was, uh, it was sort ofa competition we had, but, uh,
you know, just a great seriesto be quite honest with you.
I still, uh, I still, you know,look back as those are some of my
favorite books growing up for sure.

Stef (47:34):
Yeah, there aren't a whole lot of series that you can easily read
with a parent and sort of both enjoyit a lot, but that's, yeah, that was
a definitely a good one like that.

Pat (47:42):
question about it.
Um, do you have anyfavorite books by chance?

Stef (47:46):
Um, yeah, I, you know, I will read a cross section of fantasy.
I, I've read way too muchhistorical nonfiction as well.
I have, like, 80 favorite books.
That's my

Pat (47:56):
Yeah, and that's problem as well.
There's, there's so manythat stand out, though.
know, like I look at books like TheGrapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck.
That one really, I rememberhaving a really profound
feeling after reading that book.
just a great American literature classic.
Um, just, you know,trying times in America.
Depression

Stef (48:13):
after Mm hmm.
Just, uh, just a great

Pat (48:14):
you know, migrant workers and things like that.
there's just so many greatbooks that stand out.
I don't, honestly, I don't thinkI could come up with a favorite.
There's,

Stef (48:21):
with a favorite.
Yeah, it's hard to, I mean, youenjoy a book one of my favorites is,
I think it won the Pulitzer in like2003 ish or something like that.
it's by Michael Chabon, and it's calledThe Adventures of Cavalier and Clay.
And it's about, um, two, comic bookwriters, like writers and artists,
right during the, late 30s, early40s, right when the big, like

(48:42):
all the Superman and Batman andall those comics, like, took off.
one of the two main charactershe snuck out of, was it Ukraine?
Um, one of the European countriesbecause, you know, his family was
Jewish and they were trying to get himout before things got too difficult

Pat (48:56):
for him to escape.

Stef (48:57):
So, you know, there are things happening with his family, in Europe
while he's in the United States andlike he's constantly feeling guilty
about the fact that he's living this,this, you know, great comic artist
life while his family is stuck behind,um, you know, everything that's going
on during that period in, in Germany.
Um, so it's, it's, It has that beautifulcontext of that era and, it's like

(49:19):
writing something about the Titanic.
it's this very universal, tragedythat everybody's familiar with.
And you, I mean, to a certain extent, youknow that where things go for his family,
it's, it's not gonna be happy, and it'sgonna be rough, but, it's such a beautiful
encapsulation of that period in, in theUnited States too, and like, that's why
I keep going back to it, is it's so,

Pat (49:40):
the

Stef (49:42):
yeah, um, my favorites I always end up reading again and again.
It's like taking the samevacation over and over again.

Pat (49:47):
You know, sad to say, I don't know if I've ever read
the same book more than once.

Stef (49:51):
Well, good for you.
I mean, that means you're diving into new

Pat (49:53):
Yeah, that's the problem.
I find so many good books that I wantto read that I never circle back to
some of the great ones that I've read.
Someday I will.
I got a mental list of books I wantto go back and re read, certainly.
Who did you say was theauthor of that book?

Stef (50:08):
Michael Chabon.
he's a really excellent writer,but it was just one of those things
where like, it was such a beautifulconfluence of different things
that I've enjoyed his other stuff,but it's never been exactly that.
Is there a specific area of historicalnonfiction that you know, like, a
lot about that if somebody put you onthe spot, you'd probably be able to.
To give an answer on.

Pat (50:29):
You know, I, uh, you know, World War II era, stuff like

Stef (50:32):
I, I had a sneaking suspicion.
I'm

Pat (50:35):
but I'm, I'm delving into, uh, you know, branching out to, history
outside of the United States, branchinginto, history of England and France
and some of those areas as well.
I would say I, uh, I know enoughto be dangerous on a lot of

Stef (50:47):
of different areas.

Pat (50:48):
I don't know if I would nail down, uh, expert status in any of those.
there's some areas I would feelcertainly more comfortable than others.
Right.

Stef (50:54):
If it came up as a category in Pub Trivia, you'd be able to hold your own.

Pat (50:58):
know, I surprise myself on things like Jeopardy every once
be a certain category, it's like, thatwas made for me, I just nailed Yeah.
European

Stef (51:07):
I, European history is, is definitely

Pat (51:09):
fun.
Yeah, it's fascinating.

Stef (51:11):
they were all just always just sniping at each other back then.

Pat (51:15):
crazy to look back and, you know, even, in those times, Like a lot of
things were, are very reminiscent oftoday and, know, just in tribalism,
just random things like that.
It's, uh, it's quite fascinating.
Yeah,

Stef (51:27):
yeah, definitely.
I didn't tell you in advance I wasgoing to do this, but it's more fun if
I sneak it once I had scheduled bothyou and your dad coming on, I realized
that it might be fun to do sort ofa father son version of the newlywed
game and ask you each questions aboutthe other person and see if you match

Pat (51:43):
Okay, let's go!

Stef (51:45):
All right.
So, um, So we'll do, I have ahandful of questions and I'll have
you answer for you, and then I'llhave you answer, um, for your dad.
Um, easy questions, I promise.
Um, favorite food?

Pat (51:58):
Oh gosh.
And we're, we're speaking

Stef (52:01):
So first you, and then do what you think your, your dad will say.

Pat (52:04):
your dad will say.
Oh gosh.
My favorite food probably ribs, tobe quite it's something about, uh,
I, I love, I absolutely love ribs.
Pizza's up there too, but, uh, youknow, I'm just a big fan of, uh,
baby back ribs for whatever reason.

Stef (52:19):
big fan of,

Pat (52:22):
my dad is probably a steak of some sort.

Stef (52:25):
recipes.
Uh, my dad is probably a steak

Pat (52:31):
is no surprise there.

Stef (52:33):
sort.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There is surprise there.
Yeah, absolutely.

Pat (52:42):
I would say, uh, the Upper Peninsula.

Stef (52:45):
Okay.
Winter or summer?

Pat (52:48):
Winter.
say that for both my dad and I.

Stef (52:50):
Oh, okay.
You think that he wouldsay Upper Peninsula too?
I think

Pat (52:53):
so.
I, very fond memories ofour snowmobile trips up

Stef (52:55):
there.

Pat (52:56):
I think he's going to say winter as well on the UP.

Stef (52:58):
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely special things that you can do
when the weather is, is snowier.
Yeah.
But it also takes a very special kindof tourist in order to appreciate that.
Yeah.
No question

Pat (53:09):
question about it.
It's not for everybody,but uh, but it's for us.
That's for sure.

Stef (53:13):
us, that's sure.

Pat (53:18):
you want to cheat

Stef (53:25):
last few years.
I, uh,

Pat (53:32):
Uh, yeah, let's do one from the last few years.
I, uh, I would say, and Ihaven't seen Dune II yet, and
really looking forward to that

Stef (53:41):
looking forward to that one.
No, I

Pat (53:43):
No, makes want to, to be honest with you.
But, uh, I absolutely love the first one.
My staff tells me the secondone is even better, so.
I think I'll be making a tripthis weekend to go see it.
But, uh, probably for the lastcouple of years, my favorite
movie would be Oppenheimer.

Stef (53:57):
last couple of years,

Pat (53:59):
yet.
Phenomenal movie.
Very long.

Stef (54:00):
Oppenheimer.
Phenomenal movie.
Very

Pat (54:02):
is a commitment.

Stef (54:03):
commitment.
And I imagine there's some of thathistorical element to it that,
like, you like your history stuff.

Pat (54:10):
I do.
Yep.

Stef (54:11):
yeah.
How about your dad?

Pat (54:13):
Oh, gosh.
Star Wars or Rocky.

Stef (54:16):
Okay, alright, we're going old school

Pat (54:17):
school on this one.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Stef (54:20):
Did you, did you watch a lot of the, a lot of those, um,
series when you were growing up?

Pat (54:24):
Yeah, and I still do, as a matter of fact.
I still watch both ofthem, uh, quite often.
in the Star Wars series, do youhave a, a favorite, like, or period?
Yeah, and I'm, I'm kind of oldschool in that regard as well.
Uh, I, I'm a big fan of TheEmpire Strikes think that's just a
phenomenal, uh, movie in the series.
But also, uh, even one of thenew ones, uh, Rogue One is

Stef (54:47):
little

Pat (54:47):
one.
A little darker aspect to itthan, uh, than the other ones.
But, uh, those are kind of the twothat I gravitate towards typically.

Stef (54:55):
that I gravitate towards.

Pat (54:58):
We're both going to say wrestling,

Stef (55:00):
Oh, okay.
That is not what I would have expected.

Pat (55:02):
have expected.
Yeah, we, what did you expect?
I don't

Stef (55:05):
I, I didn't, it's not, I, I will say it's not your
typical answer for a favorite

Pat (55:11):
Yeah, we are.

Stef (55:12):
yes.
But not necessarily

Pat (55:14):
Yeah, we are weirdos in that regard.
We

Stef (55:16):
love wrestling.

Pat (55:16):
of wrestling.
And that's like, really theonly sport Sport that we
even watch for the most part.
I, well, I take that back.
I love watching the lions, butI'm You know, aside from that, I'm
really not a huge football guy.
I do love the Detroit Lions, butwe both watch wrestling, uh, high
school wrestling, college wrestling.
Uh, international Olympic wrestling as

Stef (55:34):
Okay.

Pat (55:35):
okay.
I'm very confident he'sgonna say wrestling as well.

Stef (55:37):
as well.
So, so less on the, like the pro wrestlingside as opposed to the, yeah, cause
that's a, a different beast, definitely.
Yeah,

Pat (55:45):
very much so.
Yeah, I never got into the WWE

Stef (55:50):
Yeah, yeah, that's very, it's much more performative,

Pat (55:54):
Very much so, yeah.
Yeah, I don't know if Ifit that target audience.

Stef (55:58):
Yeah, but that's, I mean, that's kind of a fun
thing that you have together.
Did you ever wrestle in school?

Pat (56:03):
I did.
Yeah.
I think my dad would disown me if I didn't

Stef (56:06):
if I didn't wrestle.

Pat (56:07):
I did.
I gave it my best.
I, I wasn't nearly as accomplishedas my dad, but I, I did wrestle
pretty much my entire life.

Stef (56:13):
I feel like, um, in addition to football, that is one of the most
physically demanding Taxing sportsthat kids that age can participate in.

Pat (56:23):
Yeah, it, you know, I might be biased here, but I
think it is the toughest sport.
And I've, had a number of, uh,friends that have kind of crossed over
from, from different, um, differentsports and they, kind of agree.
I mean, it's, uh, it'sdifferent in that regard.
I you are putting your body throughthings that nobody should put their bodies

Stef (56:40):
Ha ha ha!
Putting

Pat (56:41):
weight all the time.

Stef (56:42):
time.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah,

Pat (56:44):
yeah, it's just a whole different beast.

Stef (56:45):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Well, that's fun.
Um, one more.
if you won a hundred million dollars, whatwould be the first thing you would do?

Pat (56:52):
Oh my gosh, a hundred million dollars.

Stef (56:55):
I picked a higher number because a million is like, oh yeah, well
I'll, I'll, you know, I'll buy a nicevacation home or something like that.
it's not a, quite ashuge a number these days.

Pat (57:05):
Yeah, no question.
By the time you get done with taxes, too,

Stef (57:08):
taxes,

Pat (57:08):
there.
But, uh, you know, I don't know,to be quite honest with you.
Uh, I'm not one that's ever, like,played the lottery or anything like that.
Uh, so I've never

Stef (57:18):
just found it in

Pat (57:20):
I just found it in the field.
First thing I would do is, uh, really fixup my farm and do something really, really
spectacular with And then I would buildProbably buy a bunch of hunting property,
uh, in some other state, to be quite

Stef (57:33):
up.
some other state to be quite

Pat (57:37):
yeah, uh, you know, Montana, Wyoming.
Yeah.

Stef (57:40):
say the Pacific

Pat (57:41):
Wyoming.
You know, those, uh, those come to mindright off the top, of the top of my head.
Honestly, I don't, that's avery tough question for me.
make a bunch of soundinvestments, hopefully.
nothing fun.
I, you know, I wouldn't go outand buy a yacht or, or like a
Lamborghini or anything like

Stef (57:56):
Fun is different to

Pat (57:57):
Yeah, it really is, to be honest with you.
I'd probably buy an airplane, though.
That would be kind of cool.

Stef (58:01):
Okay.
We're escalating a little bithere, the more you think about it.

Pat (58:06):
So many ways you can go with

Stef (58:07):
Right.
What do you think your dad would do?

Pat (58:10):
Oh, gosh, I have no idea, to be honest with you.
My dad's even more boring than I am.
Uh, you know, I, I think he

Stef (58:17):
Maybe he would totally go the other direction if he suddenly
had a bunch of money in his

Pat (58:20):
Yeah, he might, he might totally change, money might change my dad.

Stef (58:23):
Oh, yeah.
I think, I'm sure itwould change most people.
Yeah.

Pat (58:26):
I could see my dad buying some extravagant property, some luxurious
cabin, Maybe in Colorado, Or maybejust buy a bunch of property in the UP.

Stef (58:36):
something outdoorsy is what it sounds

Pat (58:38):
like.
Probably, for the most part, yeah.

Stef (58:40):
those at least sound like.
Fairly grown up choices.

Pat (58:44):
if you

Stef (58:45):
Safe

Pat (58:46):
time, I would probably come up with some different answers.
That's one I've never really thoughtabout, what I would do if I had a bunch of

Stef (58:53):
interesting.
Okay.

Pat (58:54):
Have you thought about that before?

Stef (58:55):
I, I feel like everybody just ruminates on it a little bit.
Um, just like what it would be liketo suddenly have, I, I, I've thought
a little bit more about like whatit, the smaller ones, like what
if somebody just gave me 100, 000,I'd pay off all my student loans.

Pat (59:09):
yeah, I would do

Stef (59:11):
but with a bigger amount, I, I would immediately pass it on to
somebody else who's more responsiblethan me to, to keep track of.
So I don't, yeah.
definitely travel some, just, youknow, you know, have the freedom to

Pat (59:22):
just, Ooh.
Yeah.
I like that.
Can I add travel as

Stef (59:25):
add travel as well?
Yes, yes.
Uh, the.
The time frame is still open.
We're good.
and then I've also thought about thefact that I would really, I think
I would probably buy a little bitof property too, but specifically,
to set up an animal shelter.
Like, I would, I would love to, to be ableto put some funding into, rescuing animals
that, you know, that for whatever reasonjust have not had a good run in life.

(59:49):
There are so many animals out therethat they have health issues or whatever
that, they're hard to get adopted out.
And giving them a nice home

Pat (59:56):
out.
Absolutely.
I love that.
Yeah.
So you mentioned traveling, Haveyou ever traveled international

Stef (01:00:01):
I have.
I spent a while goofing around in my earlytwenties, um, which is really the time
in your life to goof around if going to.
I walked away from school for alittle bit and I spent some time,
um, living on next to nothing inWestern Europe for a little bit.
Um, and then came back becauseI didn't have any money left.
I feel like if you have the opportunityto do that sort of thing, when

(01:00:23):
you're at a point in your lifewhere you have no obligations yet,
you're not, you're not tied downto a whole lot, and you don't mind.
Living, uh, next to nothing.
Because, you get older and you're like,Okay, well, I want to sleep in a room
that doesn't have 17 strangers in it.
Because, a lot of the hostels inthere, you're, you're sleeping around
a bunch of people you don't know.
being comfortable with the ideaof having everything, that you

(01:00:46):
have with you day to day in onebackpack that, having that freedom

Pat (01:00:50):
That's awesome.
I think that's one ofmy biggest regrets, too.
I mentioned the military aspect ofthings, but like, doing something
spontaneous like backpacking throughEurope in your early 20s, I feel like,
I have a little bit of regret ofnot doing something like that.
That would have been really cool.
Kind of like you said, experiencingall of that and kind of, uh,
frequenting the hostiles and somethinglike cool and edgy about that.

Stef (01:01:12):
I will also acknowledge that it's definitely a privilege
to be able to have done that too.
I was lucky enough that, my familycould get me over there it's definitely
harder to do when you know thatthere's more at stake financially.
my passport has unfortunately beenexpired for a while and I haven't
had good reason to, to renew it, but,

Pat (01:01:30):
Well, I'm hoping to get a passport at some point in time.
My wife and I are planning abig trip to Italy and maybe
venture over to Greece too.
I've never been international

Stef (01:01:39):
before.
Oh yeah.
Okay.

Pat (01:01:40):
will be a entirely new experience.
I would love to do alittle bit of traveling.
Absolutely.

Stef (01:01:45):
I can recommend Germany for food too.

Pat (01:01:47):
Germany's on my list big time.
I mean, a lot of Europe is, Iwould love to experience Germany.

Stef (01:01:52):
I'd love to experience Germany.
My wife is a foodie.

Pat (01:01:56):
My wife is a foodie.
absolutely likes some winetoo, so that's why I think, uh,
she's really gonna enjoy Italy.

Stef (01:02:02):
absolutely.
She'll have her reviewsabout France, to be

Pat (01:02:07):
heard mixed reviews about France, to be quite honest with you.
There

Stef (01:02:09):
there's certainly aspects of, of, and it's a big country,
that romance for like Paris andwhatnot, it just, it passed me by.
So, and

Pat (01:02:18):
so, and I've, I've heard similar sentiments to that.
I thought I would love Paris.
I thought there, you know, that,that would be a city that I
would really gravitate towards.
But, uh, getting a lotof bad reviews on Paris.

Stef (01:02:28):
It's kind of gross.

Pat (01:02:29):
that's what I hear.
Um.

Stef (01:02:31):
it's not the 1800s.
it's very metropolitan.
it's very dirty in a lot of, a

Pat (01:02:35):
um, they, you know, many of them, they, you know, they learn

Stef (01:02:41):
Um, occasionally, many of them, they, you know, they learn English
as part of their academic career.
So by the time they're adults, they,they are fairly fluent And there is a
little bit of derision for people whoseFrench is not up to their, there's a
little like, please don't speak my I,

Pat (01:02:59):
Don't even attempt.

Stef (01:03:01):
um, I like.

Pat (01:03:03):
Just the fact that they could speak English to me, that would be very

Stef (01:03:05):
be really helpful.
Yes.
in Europe, most of the cities, it's, it'sfairly easy to find people who speak Or
to, to learn just enough, of the languageto be able to order the food you want.
that's enough.
I would recommend London over, over Paris

Pat (01:03:22):
Okay, duly noted.

Stef (01:03:23):
especially if you're, English history is your, because I mean, there
are areas of, of London that are still

Pat (01:03:30):
not

Stef (01:03:31):
original to when the city was first formed as a city, but.
Pre original, like there's Roman ruinsstill and stuff there, so, um, if you're
a history nerd, it's a good place to

Pat (01:03:40):
Oh, big time.
Yeah.
Lundin.
That's how they, that's how it's saidin the book I'm reading right now.

Stef (01:03:45):
Oh, okay, yeah.

Pat (01:03:46):
kind of pre London, but yeah, there is that aspect of it's like two towns.
There's like the old Roman partof the city, then the, the rest
of, uh, the people in London thinkit's all haunted, so they stay
over on the, on the new side, of

Stef (01:03:59):
Um, there's always been a little kid part of me with anything European
thinking that it must have felt sodifferent than growing up in the United
States because you're surrounded bythings that have been there for thousands
of and you just take them for granted.

Pat (01:04:15):
Well, it's, it's really remarkable to look back at how young our country is.
not that old.

Stef (01:04:21):
I feel like there's some, there's value in the fact that's our experience.
We, we got to form a little bit later.
We got to be a little more purposeful.

Pat (01:04:27):
absolutely.
we paved the way for a lot ofcountries in, in terms of, forming
representative democracy and,establishing a constitutional
republic and things like that.
we were able to see all theirmistakes and learn from them.
there's some greataspects to that as well.

Stef (01:04:41):
Yeah.
it's a good place to be.

Pat (01:04:42):
no

Stef (01:04:43):
Okay, on that patriotic note, um, I've really liked having
the chance to chat with you.
it's been fun.
And I'm really curious to see what yourdad says and if you guys match up on

Pat (01:04:54):
Me too.
I'm going to be verydisappointed if, uh, if I'm dead

Stef (01:04:57):
thought

Pat (01:04:58):
I know my dad pretty well, but we'll

Stef (01:04:59):
Maybe it'll be a learning experience.
give you a chance to getto know each other better.

Pat (01:05:03):
it will But, uh, this has been an absolute privilege.
thank you so much for havingme on my first podcast.
Uh, I love this library.
it's a beautiful placeand, and thank you so much.

Stef (01:05:13):
Thank you very much.
Did you send me something?

Amanda (01:05:18):
I might have, it was a mistake.
You

Stef (01:05:20):
sent me a thumbs up.
You're like, yes, I'm favor ofcontinuing this conversation.
that's the level of what this has become,we're also Facebook messaging each
other simultaneously while doing this.
it's like next levelfriendship right here.
Um, so I figured since the first.
Part of us talking was just completenonsense from beginning to end and

(01:05:41):
I, my apologies again for that toanyone who, who trudged through it.
Thank you for staying with us andfor listening to, Pat, who I'm sure
was, much more logical and concise.
to change it up here, what we'regoing to do is for those of you who
are not aware, In our catalog, ourlibrary catalog on BiblioCommons,
um, there's an option to take a lookat everything that has recently been

(01:06:02):
released and has come to our shelves.
So if you're interested in finding this,um, if you go to our main page, there's
an option At the top that says exploreand then when you go to that drop down
it says new titles and then you can useThe drop downs from there to specifically
look for adult titles or kids titlesif you want to look for books ebooks

(01:06:22):
audiobooks You know, whatever you cannarrow it down but for right now Amanda
and I are looking at our list of themost recently sent to the shelves or
recently ordered adult book titles.
So we're gonna sort of flipthrough a little bit and see
what, what strikes our fancy.
So, what are you seeing?
You've that

Amanda (01:06:43):
I know I

Stef (01:06:43):
seen something.

Amanda (01:06:44):
I found a it's called The Divorcees by Rowan Beard, I believe.

Stef (01:06:48):
Okay, sounds like fiction.

Amanda (01:06:49):
fiction.
This is fiction and I don't like fiction.
So

Stef (01:06:52):
being disingenuous right from the start you don't read fiction.

Amanda (01:06:55):
you know me, you know, a novel set at 1950s Reno Divorce Ranch explores
the complex friendship between two womenwho dare to imagine a different future.
What drew me into thatwas the 1950s Reno and

Stef (01:07:09):
Okay.
a Divorce

Amanda (01:07:11):
And Divorce Ranch is in quotes.

Stef (01:07:13):
What does that

Amanda (01:07:14):
I don't know.
That's, see, now you're

Stef (01:07:15):
going to have to read the book to find what a Divorce Ranch is.
It sounds like something that wouldbe on a show that you would watch.
So, in summation, if they turn this into,

Amanda (01:07:25):
would be all over it.
I see.
Yeah, there's a lot ofgood things on here.

Stef (01:07:31):
I only

Amanda (01:07:32):
I only can read so much, though.

Stef (01:07:34):
mean, that's literally true of all human beings.

Amanda (01:07:36):
human beings.
I,

Stef (01:07:40):
this is cheating because I'm not looking at it from the actual
list, but the one that I'm readingright now that also just came out
is from an author named Philip B.
Williams that's called, wow, I can't,Hours, there we go, that's the name of it.
Um, it is a really fascinating, magicalrealism story set in the 1840s, that

(01:08:03):
focuses around a woman who is a conjurerand who frees, a number of slaves
through magical means and then forms thiscommunity out in the middle of Missouri
and the Interesting sort of folk talethings that happen in that community.
Oh, it's so good.
it's the first novel i've picked upin a while and it was largely because
the name of the author reminded meof somebody that I knew and then I

(01:08:25):
opened the book and realized that itwas somebody I knew that it was one of
my friends from, from my MFA program.
So I was really excited about that, which,you know, good for him because he's a poet
and he's writing big beautiful novels now.
So check it out.
It's really good, but you'llhave to wait until I'm done

Amanda (01:08:38):
Oh, brother.
I'm trying to, like, I've readbooks from the library, the
news section, recently, and

Stef (01:08:44):
The new section is just so, it just makes things so much easier because
there's fewer to look at and it givesyour brain something to center on.
Oh, I don't even do that anymore.

Amanda (01:08:57):
do I only talk about new books?
Okay,

Stef (01:09:01):
so I think you're,

Amanda (01:09:02):
okay, so I read this book last week.
And it, Sally Field in pieces.

Stef (01:09:08):
Oh, okay.

Amanda (01:09:09):
is so good.

Stef (01:09:10):
that one's not that old, is it?

Amanda (01:09:11):
2017.

Stef (01:09:13):
Oh, okay.

Amanda (01:09:13):
But it's so good, really recommend it.
And then a new book, The House of HiddenMeanings by RuPaul, that was very good.

Stef (01:09:21):
Okay.
Somebody really likes celebrity

Amanda (01:09:23):
Somebody really does.
Um, Oh, this is an older book, but Ireally think people should read it.
It was in order to live a NorthKorean girl's journey to freedom.
It's about it.
It was so good.
That is like a life changer for

Stef (01:09:36):
Oh, wow.
Okay.
It's

Amanda (01:09:37):
really, really good.
And then, I mean, there's somany on here I've read that are

Stef (01:09:40):
Stop using your Goodreads!
totally, go back where we We'reall, we're all on the same page

Amanda (01:09:45):
Okay.
On the page.
No, but

Stef (01:09:46):
Um, I want to know, personally, what the secrets of the octopus are.
what are those octopus secrets?
That's a new book by Cy Montgomery,that's a non fiction book.
I, yo, what secrets?
I didn't know that therewere any secrets, and now I

Amanda (01:10:00):
smart?

Stef (01:10:02):
Are they?

Amanda (01:10:02):
I heard they were

Stef (01:10:03):
have this image of them being kind of, like, grumpy.

Amanda (01:10:07):
Can't they escape from things as well?
Probably.
I remember there's someone escaping.
I'm trying to look at other good books.
You

Stef (01:10:16):
you see a new, um, nonfiction book about the Tudors, too.
And we have one, we have one aboutElizabeth I that just, um, hit the
shelves called Young Elizabeth.
Um, so that's fun.
I'm only finding nonfiction books.
So, I guess.
I hope you are interested in non fiction.
That's my, that's my

Amanda (01:10:33):
Yes, specifically celebrity memoirs.

Stef (01:10:42):
of

Amanda (01:10:43):
No, there are like a lot of good books I want to read.
That's the problem, okay?
I feel like, Between TV and then books,it's like always like a competition.
Because I have to keep up with myTV, but I also have to do this.
And I also have to

Stef (01:10:56):
Who is making you do this?
Like, who is, who are you, like,

Amanda (01:11:00):
Kate Middleton, course!
Just kidding.

Stef (01:11:01):
don't talk about anything in her personal she keeps you
on with your reality Good on

Amanda (01:11:07):
I know, I just feel like it's just to keep up with stuff.
That's fair.
I'm trying to like you, but I

Stef (01:11:12):
Gotta be in the zeitgeist.

Amanda (01:11:13):
I also just like going to the shelves and picking things like fun too.

Stef (01:11:17):
appreciate about this the fact that you can actually see the
book covers because that is the onedownside to just perusing the shelves.
I feel like I'm like, a littlebit spoiled at this point.
So when I walk over to those shelves,I'm like, all I see is book spines.
isn't enough for me.
I need a cover.

Amanda (01:11:32):
I'm reading from the new section here, Slow Noodles.
it's about girl fromCambodia who was there during

Stef (01:11:41):
who was there during

Amanda (01:11:42):
the Cultural Revolution, like the extermination of the people
who were considered, educated.
And it's about her life,um, through kind of recipes.
interesting.
It's really good.
I hate to even say what it's about.
I'm only maybe like 45pages in, but very good.

Stef (01:12:00):
very good.
Yeah,

Amanda (01:12:02):
Yeah, they have been.

Stef (01:12:03):
been.
Yeah,

Amanda (01:12:05):
yeah, like the sweet and sour mango thing sounded good.

Stef (01:12:09):
thing sounded good.
So

Amanda (01:12:12):
guess you'd say I also like, um, things about Asian Americans too.
Like that one about NorthKorea, and that kind of stuff

Stef (01:12:19):
Those two books do point in

Amanda (01:12:21):
that out.
Yeah.
I always do read that.

Stef (01:12:23):
Yeah, you, you like things about

Amanda (01:12:24):
like things about people.
And usually females,too, when you think about

Stef (01:12:29):
makes

Amanda (01:12:29):
Yeah.

Stef (01:12:31):
it makes you feel a part of that experience,

Amanda (01:12:34):
I don't want to be part of some experiences, though.

Stef (01:12:36):
Or maybe, maybe makes you more grateful for your own experience?

Amanda (01:12:39):
And that is horrible to say, because I feel like that
makes me kind of a bad person.

Stef (01:12:43):
person.
Why?

Amanda (01:12:43):
I don't know, like, I'm so grateful I'm not them, but I think
it makes me appreciate my life Right.
I would take the positive.
Yeah, like when I like, I'm like,uh, these people are grateful
for like half a bowl of rice.
I should get my stuff in gear and be alittle more grateful for what I have.

Stef (01:12:57):
Yeah, it is

Amanda (01:12:59):
it is context.
But no, there's a lotof good books out there.
People need to go to the library.
Why are people, why

Stef (01:13:05):
are people I'm just

Amanda (01:13:09):
joking.
I was like, me personally.

Stef (01:13:11):
This counts.
No, I don't, I mean, you'reliterally three feet away from me.
I know where you are.
I'm talking about people we're talking to.
Um, can we talk about books more though?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
one of the new novels that wehave that just came out this month
is called Can't We Be Friends?
And it's a novel, aboutElla Fitzgerald and Monroe.

Amanda (01:13:28):
Really?
Yes.

Stef (01:13:29):
So it is historical fiction, but it contains the
stories of both of those women,

Amanda (01:13:34):
okay.
It's just, see, I get nervouswith historical fiction, so good.
I'm glad you get nervous too, causeI get, it makes me nervous that I'll
think of that story really happen.

Stef (01:13:51):
if

Amanda (01:13:52):
And if, if it didn't really happen, like, I feel like it's kind of
like someone writing a fake biographyand it makes me really nervous.

Stef (01:14:02):
easy to integrate it into what you know, know about the person.
Um, there was an, there was another, Imean, a lot of people have probably heard
of this, but there was the, uh, reallylong novel that Joyce Carol Oates wrote
about, Marilyn Monroe, Blonde, um, Yes.
Which read.
Probably half of becauseit was like 200 pages.
It

Amanda (01:14:19):
was very long.

Stef (01:14:21):
but I mean that talks about her relationship with

Amanda (01:14:24):
Charlie Chaplin's son

Stef (01:14:25):
a couple of actors from the time like Charlie Chaplin's
son and then like another
Hollywood person, but I'm like didshe actually know these people just
something that Joyce Carol Oates

Amanda (01:14:35):
See, that makes me nervous, you, And I've read a lot
of books on Marilyn Monroe too.
Cause I think she's afascinating character

Stef (01:14:41):
I mean, she's a, yeah, she was an

Amanda (01:14:44):
Yeah, no, but

Stef (01:14:45):
but yeah,

Amanda (01:14:45):
she's so, I just, and she's still popular this day.

Stef (01:14:49):
There aren't a whole lot of actors from that era that have,
although they've got that Cary Grantminiseries came out with Jason Isaacs.

Amanda (01:14:56):
So here's the thing.
Is it only available on that?
Is it?

Stef (01:15:00):
I think it's one of those streaming miniseries

Amanda (01:15:02):
Because the last thing I knew was only available on this, like, Britbox,
which is like a UK streaming service.
I was gonna get Britbox just for that.

Stef (01:15:10):
I mean, you could always just briefly get it.
you're not getting married to Brett Box.

Amanda (01:15:14):
Do you know what his real name is?

Stef (01:15:16):
it one time, but I have

Amanda (01:15:17):
Archibald Leach.
Very similar to my maiden name, Leach,but I'm the Scottish version, L E I T C H,
and he's the English version, L E A C H.
There we go.

Stef (01:15:27):
we go.
If you ever wonder to yourself, What is it

Amanda (01:15:31):
is

Stef (01:15:32):
has in common with Cary Grant?
Now know.
Also a person.

Amanda (01:15:40):
person.

Stef (01:15:42):
I'm very disappointed that our, the latest Simone St.
James novel, Murder Road, has been checkedout before I could get my hands on it.
Um, I'm looking forward tobeing underwhelmed by that book

Amanda (01:15:54):
book?

Stef (01:15:54):
um, the, the author's name is Simone St.
James and she does this, all of herbooks are this sort of beautiful
of

Amanda (01:16:04):
horror and

Stef (01:16:05):
mysteries.
she does a lot of supernaturalmystery type stuff.
Um, my favorite of hers, is somethingI'm not gonna be able to come up with.
Something about a hotel.

Amanda (01:16:13):
Ooh.

Stef (01:16:14):
I really love that one book and have been sort of like vaguely
enjoying other stuff she's written.
But she has one that just came outand it's got a bunch of holds on it.
So I'll probably

Amanda (01:16:23):
it, there's so many good books out there.
They're coming out left and right!

Stef (01:16:26):
Yeah, there's just, there's not enough time in the world

Amanda (01:16:29):
I do, when I go on my walks, I

Stef (01:16:31):
and Tana French, too.
She's a big mystery writer whojust has a new one that came out.
hers are funky.
Like, mistaken identities, and like,they're, like, it turns out that there's
some personal meaning to each, cause allof her books, The, detective changes for
each one, and then it turns mystery hassome significance to, like, there's one
called the likeness, where it turns outthat the detective is, like, pretty much

(01:16:55):
the doppelganger of the woman who actuallywas killed, she, like, goes back and
pretends to her, to see, like, if anybody,it's a very glass onion kind of situation.
Um, sorry if I spoiled theglass onion for anybody.
Um, But yeah, it's enjoyable.

Amanda (01:17:13):
is like a dangerous conversation.

Stef (01:17:14):
How

Amanda (01:17:15):
Because it's like, there's so many books I want to read now.

Stef (01:17:17):
Of all the dangers that you could be encountering in this world, having more

Amanda (01:17:21):
true.
I know, it's just, there'sso many good books out there.
And I love reading.

Stef (01:17:26):
Who are you talking right now?
Who is listening to this right now?
Like, I'm hoping that the majority of themare people who generally enjoy reading.
It's okay if you don't.
No judgment there.
But seriously, I feel likeyou're not at any risk at this
So, we should probably finish

Amanda (01:17:41):
Okay.
Okay.
Well, all I've got to sayis that I love the library.

Stef (01:17:46):
library.

Amanda (01:17:46):
been using the libraries for, since I was,
uh, I look at books like candy.
just delicious and wonderful and

Stef (01:17:54):
you vacationing?
Total left

Amanda (01:17:56):
New York City!
We're staying in Brooklyn!

Stef (01:18:00):
not been there before?
I've

Amanda (01:18:02):
never been there.
I want to see the Brooklyn Bridge.
And I want to go to abunch of cool restaurants.

Stef (01:18:07):
to go to a bunch snobby, This is my favorite, obscure,
southern African restaurant

Amanda (01:18:15):
we're going plant based places.

Stef (01:18:18):
That, that should, that should get going right

Amanda (01:18:20):
And like, So my husband and son will go, okay, people I know you didn't
know this, there's three meals in a day.
So, um, I know, so one of those meals isgoing to be plant based, so they're gonna,

Stef (01:18:34):
that's not

Amanda (01:18:35):
I'm gonna haul them to like, a place,

Stef (01:18:37):
if you, if you find really good

Amanda (01:18:39):
I know,

Stef (01:18:40):
places, they can disguise it so stealthily

Amanda (01:18:43):
stalking these places, like I know the menus, the
prices, I'm so excited, yay,

Stef (01:18:50):
back.
Okay, thank you so muchfor letting not kidnap you.

Amanda (01:18:54):
I'm just glad that, um, I had this time to come talk about
books and everything else we

Stef (01:19:00):
Tell, yeah, tell hello Alright, take care.
Have a good trip.

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