May 6, 2024 • 59 mins
The "body safety" in this episode is not the fleeing-from-Freddie-Krueger kind! We honor Sexual Assault Awareness month (which, to be fair, was April) by sitting down with Alexis Thane, Volunteer and Outreach Coordinator for RAVE, Relief Against Violent Encounter. Their organization provides support, shelter and counseling for survivors (of all ages and genders) of sexual assault and domestic abuse. While these topics are rarely easy, open discussion of them is so important to try to reduce the stigma of honesty around them. This is essential if we want to prepare and support young people (or anyone) in their relationships, and promote body safety awareness. We hope our episode will encourage you to start your own honest discussions. Also, we sit down with staff member, Danielle, and her visiting daughter, Megan, who make me work exceptionally hard to get them to talk. Megan was with us for job shadowing, but tells us about the horror film-inspired career aspiration she prefers over becoming a librarian. Then I attempt to get Megan to try her hand at podcast hosting (with mixed results). This episode is a hodge-podge mix of silly and serious, but then that's the best kind. Join us on the Front Porch!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stef (00:13):
I am Steph Reed.
I am the director of theFlat River Community Library.
Speaker 8 (00:18):
I'm Danielle Wonder Jim.
I am the technician, service specialist
Speaker 16 (00:25):
I'm Megan Wonderjem.
I'm a student at theGreenville High School.
Alexis (00:30):
So, uh,
my
Thain, and I'm the Volunteer andOutreach Coordinator for RAVE,
Cory (00:38):
Welcome to the Flat River Front Porch.
Stef (00:42):
is there anything you want to talk about?
Talk about anything.
Well, that's not helpful.
not helpful,
Speaker 15 (00:47):
not
Speaker 16 (00:48):
helpful.
Speaker (00:49):
feel like we're in our one on run right
Speaker 7 (00:50):
I know.
Speaker (00:51):
every time I sit down with her for our monthly one on
one, I'm like, so how's it going?
And she's like, good.
Speaker 16 (00:58):
And if I
Speaker (00:59):
say anything else, she'll just sit there in silence and stare at me.
Speaker 16 (01:02):
Yeah, me too.
Me too.
Speaker (01:04):
I don't know if it's me.
Speaker 8 (01:05):
It's not you.
Nope.
Speaker (01:07):
I don't think I'm intimidating, but, and not to throw you under the
bus here, but I feel like earlieron, it was more like you were still
getting used to me and you were stillgetting comfortable with me and now
it seems like you're comfortable.
You're just like, I don'thave anything to talk about,
which is hilarious
Speaker 7 (01:23):
because
Speaker 14 (01:23):
life
Speaker (01:24):
is always full of excitement and chaos.
So we get it on a daily basis,but when somebody puts you on the
spot, you're just like, I'm good.
Speaker 14 (01:31):
you're
Speaker 8 (01:31):
I'm good.
Speaker 16 (01:32):
I'm good.
Speaker (01:33):
I got to catch it on the fly.
That's what I'm learning.
Okay.
hello everyone.
I hope we've got some new listeners now.
if you saw the article about the podcastin the Daily News, and this is your
first time listening, then welcome.
I am Steph Reed.
I'm the Director of the FlatRiver Community Library.
and I'm changing it up a little bitthis time to, to make things easier on
one of our staff members who was notsuper excited about doing this process.
(01:57):
poor Danielle.
I'm making this so hard for you.
I'm so sorry.
But we looked out today that, shehad a family member that was here
for, totally appropriate reasons.
so I figured we could pull themin together and that maybe that
might make it a little more fun.
So I'm going to let you introduce yourselfand stop talking about you should we start
pulling out the baby pictures now here?
Speaker 7 (02:16):
pictures now here?
Speaker (02:17):
I'm really not aiming to humiliate you.
I promise it just
Speaker 14 (02:20):
promise.
It just happens.
Speaker (02:21):
tell everyone who's listening and wondering why I'm so mean,
who you are and what you do here.
Speaker 8 (02:27):
Hi everyone.
I'm Danielle Wonder Jim.
I am the technician, servicespecialist here at the library.
Speaker (02:33):
and how long have you been here?
Speaker 8 (02:35):
I've been here for almost 27 years.
Yes.
Speaker 14 (02:37):
Yes,
Speaker (02:38):
which is incredible, but what's almost more incredible than that
is the fact that you are the third?
Speaker 7 (02:45):
Yep.
Long, longest standing.
Yep.
Third
Speaker (02:47):
so hopefully that's a good sign.
But yes, we have two employees herewho have actually been here longer
than 27 years we're happy you're stillhere despite how much I pick on you
Speaker 14 (02:55):
you also with us, today is Danielle's daughter.
Um, do you want to introduce yourself?
Speaker 16 (03:01):
I'm Megan Wonderjem.
I'm a student at theGreenville High School.
Okay.
Speaker (03:05):
Okay.
Um, and what is the super legitimatereason that you are here this morning?
Speaker 16 (03:08):
morning?
I'm job shadowing.
Okay, okay.
Speaker 14 (03:11):
Um,
Speaker (03:11):
because you, secretly dream at night about wandering the aisles of books
and taking, yeah, is that what it is?
Speaker 14 (03:20):
sure.
Speaker 16 (03:20):
I want to, you know, smell the dust on all the books.
You know what, we
Speaker (03:24):
work very hard to keep the dust off the books.
We do.
Speaker 16 (03:28):
Good.
That's great.
Speaker (03:29):
Yes, that's the goal.
Speaker 7 (03:32):
my gosh.
Speaker 14 (03:35):
Is
Speaker (03:35):
any other non allergy related reason that you wanted to
come here to do your job shadow?
Speaker 16 (03:41):
Nope, I just wanna observe.
Speaker (03:43):
Okay.
Wow, you are just as talkative as your
Speaker 16 (03:45):
Yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker (03:47):
you have any sort of insight as to what you'd like
To do when you're all grown up?
Speaker 16 (03:52):
Well, I'm looking at doing forensic science.
Speaker (03:55):
Oh yes, your mom was saying that, yes.
And we were talking about, honestly,I think a lot more people are wanting
to do that now, which is funnywhen you think about it because the
inclination to touch dead people, youwould think that would be not super
common, but It's growing in popularity.
You're not big, Danielle, you're not bigon the, the true crime stuff either, are
Speaker 7 (04:17):
I'm
Speaker 8 (04:17):
not, no.
Speaker (04:18):
I feel like we keep talking about that, every time we get a patron who
donates a stack of true crime materials,and I'm just like, yes, bring on the
serial killers, cause I'm weird too.
Danielle is like, oh, that's nice.
And I'm like, she's just like,please don't make me read it.
But apparently you're a littlebit more in the same vein.
Okay.
do you read true crime?
(04:39):
or do true, true crimedocumentaries or, or
Speaker 14 (04:42):
I watch a,
Speaker 16 (04:43):
I watch a lot of documentaries.
Okay.
In horror movies.
Okay.
But I mostly read like mystery books.
Speaker (04:48):
okay.
Okay.
That's fair.
You're gonna have learn to get,like, immersed in some of the
reading side of things for that,
Speaker 14 (04:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker (04:57):
you know, forensic science looks like a lot more fun
in the documentaries I think thanit will actually turn out to be.
A lot of.
A lot of chemistry and stuff.
Are you a science person?
Speaker 16 (05:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (05:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker (05:08):
give me something more here!
Speaker 7 (05:10):
here!
You still
Speaker 14 (05:10):
I don't
Speaker 16 (05:11):
got more!
Speaker (05:12):
just picking on you.
so do you have any, true crime stuffthat you've come across that was
like, especially intriguing to you?
Or are there specific aspects ofit that, you find more interesting.
Speaker 16 (05:21):
Not necessarily, no.
I just enjoy it all.
Speaker 9 (05:23):
I'm
Speaker (05:24):
going to breathe
Speaker 16 (05:25):
I am really sorry.
Speaker (05:26):
it's okay.
I'm just teasing, I promise.
what initially drew you to the conceptof the forensic science stuff then?
And I will give the caveat here too,since you are job shadowing, that there is
literally nothing about librarianship thathas anything to do with forensic science
other than occasionally being a littlebit gross in ways that I won't go into
Speaker 14 (05:46):
detail,
Speaker 7 (05:46):
detail.
Speaker 16 (05:47):
I don't know.
I grew up, like my dad really enjoyshorror movies, so I grew up watching
a lot of horror movies with him.
I just enjoy the horror movies andwatching 'em, and I wanna learn more about
Speaker 9 (05:56):
them.
And
Speaker 16 (05:58):
the death side of it, Okay.
Like, I, I really wanna figure out likehow people like the cause of their death.
Speaker (06:04):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 16 (06:05):
And get into that.
Okay.
Speaker (06:06):
Okay.
Speaker 10 (06:07):
into
Speaker 16 (06:07):
do want to dissect the dead bodies as well.
Speaker (06:10):
then.
Just for fun or like foractual professional reasons?
Should we be
Speaker 16 (06:14):
concerned?
No, no, no, no.
This is all I'm all good.
It's for professional reasons.
Speaker 14 (06:19):
Okay.
Speaker (06:19):
You know this is all being recorded,
Speaker 16 (06:21):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker (06:22):
this, this
Speaker 16 (06:23):
all good.
Speaker (06:23):
this can be used against you in a court of law.
Oh my
Speaker 14 (06:26):
law.
Oh
Speaker (06:27):
Okay.
But I mean I get theinterest in it definitely.
Yes.
I'll be interested to see in the next fewyears how that evolves and translates.
Because forensic science, yeah, itis a tricky role to get into from
what I understand, because it isgetting really big and popular.
I think we talked a little bitabout like, like does that translate
into mortuary science as well?
(06:47):
Like a fallback, like you canalways touch dead people but in
a different capacity I suppose?
Yeah.
Okay.
you got to have dreams, but then you'vegot to have practical aspirations too.
Absolutely.
Um, so clearly you're followingin mom's footsteps as well.
Um, not really.
so Danielle, what got you into thisposition and why do you think after
(07:08):
27 years you are still going strong?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Got
Speaker 8 (07:13):
into this position was In high school, we had to take one
of those career tests to see whatyour best suitable career would be.
And the top one waslibrarian and accounting.
So I'm like, Ooh, be something
Speaker (07:27):
And you do both!
Speaker 8 (07:29):
do both.
Speaker 15 (07:29):
both!
Speaker 8 (07:29):
I had a job opening up for a page assistant here when I was a junior.
I think it was a senior.
I think I was a page for Eightmonths, and then after, shortly
after I graduated, they asked me ifI wanted to bump up to circulation.
You
Speaker (07:46):
And you did circulation
Speaker 8 (07:47):
I did,
Speaker (07:48):
a long time.
Speaker 8 (07:49):
A very long time.
Speaker 7 (07:50):
Yup, yup.
Speaker 14 (07:51):
reached
Speaker (07:51):
point where you were like, can I stop being around
people as much for a little while?
Yeah.
I am so, so throwing youunder the bus on this
Speaker 8 (08:01):
But no, I will, I, you
Speaker 7 (08:03):
know
Speaker (08:03):
you know what?
I, I will acknowledge too that like Iwas even more immersed in the people
side at the beginning of my career.
Mine was youth servicesfor, for years as well.
And with youth services, it's likeyou are peopling hard all day long.
working with families, workingwith kids, jumping around
and being very performative.
I get that side of things, but COVIDhonestly, I think it changed a lot of our
(08:25):
perceptions of how those interactions workbecause people's behaviors and people's
attitudes really changed because of that.
so in a manner of speaking,becoming a director was me
stepping away from peopling too.
I'm not judging you.
I'm, I'm encouraging you.
so what do you do now?
Speaker 8 (08:42):
I am a technician services, specialist.
Speaker (08:46):
technical services specialist, yep.
Speaker 8 (08:48):
And I go from anywhere.
Speaker (08:50):
that?
Speaker 8 (08:52):
It deals with creating order records to processing books
or material, and then getting it allready to get ready out to the public.
Speaker (09:03):
public.
Uh huh.
So essentially, for the business of whatpeople typically think of as a library,
which is, you know, circulating all ofthose books and all those other materials,
you are the most important person here.
I am.
Because if not for you, they wouldn'thave that stuff to check out,
Speaker 7 (09:18):
they
Speaker (09:19):
they would be really grumpy about it.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
they would.
Speaker (09:22):
Um, we have some hardcore people who they know the schedule of
when they can expect this to come out,and if something was released the day
before and it's not on the floor yet,they're like, tick tock, what's happening
Speaker 8 (09:32):
Right.
Speaker 14 (09:32):
but
Speaker (09:33):
you are fantastic at that, and it's a very routine, methodical kind
of job that requires a lot of abilityto focus on that methodical work.
And you rock at
Speaker 8 (09:45):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 14 (09:46):
it.
Speaker (09:47):
gonna try to make the rest of this me being really nice to you.
That's gonna be my goal.
Speaker 14 (09:52):
Okay.
Speaker (09:53):
Sincerely nice, I promise.
But like, I'm gonna stop doing thatthing that I was doing before, I promise.
So now I'm just gonna bemean to Megan instead.
Um, what's weird is I feel like I knowmore than I arguably should about you
at this point because, Danielle isa very friendly, very open person.
and she loves her kids.
So, she talks about you andyour sister very fondly.
(10:16):
are you a reader?
Speaker 16 (10:17):
see.
Okay.
Speaker (10:19):
Okay.
do you ever come here unless your momforces you to do it or you're trying
to get out of school for the day?
No.
Fair enough, fair enough.
Did you do it more when you were a kid?
Yeah.
Okay, that's fair.
in what capacity were youhere when you were younger?
Do you remember?
Did you ever do programstuff when you were younger?
Like
Speaker 8 (10:37):
We, um, we, when we had the story time, like on Monday evenings, I
used to bring her and, uh, some of mycousins, little ones, here with them to
Speaker (10:48):
I'm sure you don't remember.
Nope.
Yeah, that makes sense.
we bring our kids to story timehoping it has any effect on them, and
clearly, clearly it does, because yearslater, we don't remember doing it.
it's like, subtle, yeah.
I'm gonna find somethingto make you talk about.
What do you want to talk about?
Speaker 16 (11:06):
I have no idea.
Speaker (11:07):
Okay.
So here's what we're going to do.
I am going to transition into myguest for this week and then we're
going to take a couple minutes andwe're going to figure out how I can
get the Wonder Gem family to give memore than one word answers to things.
That's my goal.
it's Friday.
we're almost there atthe end of this week.
It's almost summer.
(11:29):
I'm going to get aconversation out of you people.
Okay.
All right.
So on that note,
my guest this week is someone thatI always love running into because,
I am so grateful for what herorganization does for our community.
it's a very difficult, very emotionallydraining, role that organization fills.
(11:50):
in the community, but I'm really gladthat we have, hardworking people who have
dedicated themselves to that organization.
the organization name is RAVE, whichstands for Relief After Violent Encounter.
And our guest this week is theiroutreach coordinator, Alexis Thain.
Stef (12:09):
it's part of being mom.
Like you don't, you don't sleep anymore.
Like even when they get a littlebit older, there's a period of
every night basically where you'rejust like, okay, it's two o'clock
in the morning and I'm, I'm awake.
I read somewhere that there were sortof pre industrial cultures that it was
built into their sleeping like culture.
they would go to bed with, withthe sundown, like relatively early.
(12:32):
And then there would be a point during thenight where they would be awake, say from
like one o'clock in the morning to likefour o'clock in the morning or something.
And then they would goback to bed afterwards.
But There would be a night wakeand this is like, I need to
actually see if this is true.
It's, it's really bad librarianing ofme to be passing on this information
without validating my sources.
So shame on me.
(12:53):
I should know
Alexis (12:54):
You should research it after the fire
Stef (12:55):
after the fire is gone.
Right.
Yeah.
And the irony here is that I hardcorechastised Cassie last, last episode
about, you know, properly researchingand now karma is coming back to get me.
Alexis (13:08):
I'll let her know afterwards.
Stef (13:10):
should.
You should turn me in and, I shouldbe punished for it, certainly.
Okay.
This is a good place to start.
because today's topic is,is so, you know, light and,
Alexis (13:20):
looky,
Stef (13:20):
my guest this week, is someone who was nice enough to let me just
sort of like throw this concept ather when I approached her about it
last week, I gave her very little leadtime, like, like, let's just do this.
And, um, and thankfully she wasdown for it, I will let her go
ahead and introduce herself.
so if you could give us your name, wherewe would know you from, where we would
(13:41):
see you on an average day and sort ofwhat a, what a day for you looks like.
Alexis (13:44):
Yeah.
So, uh, my Thain, and I'm theVolunteer and Outreach Coordinator
for RAVE, or our longer name isRelief After Violent Encounter, and
we serve Ionia Montcombe Counties.
on a daily basis, I'm Pretty much in theoffice, supervising volunteers, reaching
out to the community to see where I cando, um, more presentations, hand out more
(14:08):
of our information, do things like this.
So thank you for letting mecome on the podcast today.
And yeah, pretty much just tryingto get our information out there
to let survivors in our communityknow that we are available 24 7.
Stef (14:21):
So you spend a lot of time peopling,
Alexis (14:23):
Yes.
A lot of peopling.
Stef (14:24):
do you ever hit a wall where you're just like, I've peopled too much
today, I need to curl into a ball andlisten to light jazz and just chill?
Like, does the, do youfind that happens too much?
Oh,
Alexis (14:36):
absolutely.
Um, usually I'll try to take aday and I'll just put my music on.
Most of the time it willbe Taylor Swift though.
I'm a
Stef (14:43):
Yes, yes, thank you.
Alexis (14:45):
so
Stef (14:46):
get so much grief about that for my staff.
Like, I'm not likeobsessed with Taylor Swift.
I just, I just enjoy her
Alexis (14:55):
Oh, I do too.
Stef (14:56):
It's like a lifestyle now.
it's what, you know, Beyoncewas like 10 years ago.
People just were like, it was a culture.
Alexis (15:04):
culture.
It's just when I listen to hermusic, I have to keep going.
So it's not like I can switch over right
Stef (15:09):
it just, yeah, it's, it is an immersive experience.
Certainly.
Alexis (15:13):
is.
She's so storytelling in her musicthat I have to like dig into it and
read her lyrics and see what's going on
Stef (15:18):
Absolutely.
before I, you know, was a grownup and got a grown up job, I, I
wrote fiction for a long time.
I do it occasionally now,but I got my first master's
degree in, in fiction writing.
I am always drawn to music that hasthat sort of narrative component to it.
So all of my favorite songs are ones
That have storytelling in them.
(15:40):
she's a great example of them.
Most of them are just, are weird.
I'm trying to think.
the one that always comes tomind is Shoot, what's it called?
it's the one that Reba McEntire,Yeah, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do 90's
Alexis (15:51):
country.
That's
Stef (15:52):
gonna happen.
The night the lights went out in Georgia.
I love that song.
Alexis (15:56):
Classic.
Stef (15:58):
Although this is a super niche like complaint here, but
I've been holding it in for years.
So the sister, like, Kills his wife, butthen she just lets him go down for murder.
Like what is that?
Alexis (16:11):
It's, it's an experience
Stef (16:13):
It's so confusing like she did it to Avenge him, but then
she just yeah I want to meet thiswoman and get some answers out of
Alexis (16:21):
Need the run down.
Stef (16:22):
do yeah
Alexis (16:23):
board was like the red pins to see like where like where the
crime is taking place and what's
Stef (16:28):
Exactly, yeah, yeah.
Oh, what a, yeah.
But
Alexis (16:33):
listening to music is my kind of self care.
So, peopling too much, as you would say,I just kind of take a moment, just relax,
turn some music on, and I'm good to go.
Stef (16:43):
how long have you been in this area?
Did you grow up locally?
Alexis (16:46):
So, I'm actually from the west side, so I grew up in Holland.
So, came over here, and then I,
Stef (16:52):
pretty, we're pretty west.
Like, I don't think I've ever heardanybody say, I'm from the west side, while
Alexis (16:58):
always forget about it.
Cause I, so I went tocollege in Mount Pleasant.
So just like trying to, areyou, are you as a Chippewa too?
Stef (17:07):
I, yeah, that's where I got my undergrad.
Yep.
Yep.
Alexis (17:09):
Fire up chips.
Look at that.
Learning new
Stef (17:12):
I feel like there's a lot of chips
Alexis (17:14):
I think so.
Stef (17:15):
we're that, we're just so close to
Alexis (17:17):
I think so.
Ionia is still like an hour, hour anda half away from Holland, so sometimes
I don't think about the west sideof it, but obviously went to college
up at CMU, Fire Up Chips again, um,
Stef (17:28):
correctly.
Exactly,
Alexis (17:30):
exactly, it's almost like Bloody Mary for some
Stef (17:32):
Mary for some reason.
Um,
Alexis (17:35):
three times, I worked at
Rise advocacy that's up there and theydo Isabella, Claire, and Gracia counties.
So it's another, I also did myInternship up there, for social work.
So.
Um, I got my undergraduatein social work and minored in
American Sign Language as well, so.
And then after a while, just kindof felt like migrating back to
(17:56):
the west side, so came down hereand I found this position, I'm
Stef (18:01):
ASL game these days?
Alexis (18:03):
not gonna lie, it's a little rusty.
I definitely still watch somevideos to try to keep up on it.
I would definitely loveto use it more often.
Patricia, our sexual assaultadvocate, we have, she also mitered
in ASL, so sometimes we try to
Stef (18:17):
do it around the office
Alexis (18:18):
it's, it's also funny because like her office is right across from
mine, so one day we just gotta bejust talking to each other in ASL.
Stef (18:25):
that's, yeah.
I was curious what the path was.
Because obviously this is somethingthat you've made, a career
path from, from fairly early.
did you go into school knowing thatthis was going to be sort of your focus?
Yeah.
Alexis (18:39):
Are you thinking about like college level or talk about like any,
Stef (18:42):
Did you go into kindergarten knowing that you would be
Alexis (18:45):
in advocate for, um, definitely no.
Honestly, my first career choicewhen I was in elementary school,
I wanted to be a history teacher.
Love history, still love history.
Stef (18:55):
Ditto, yeah,
Alexis (18:56):
just went to Europe for a trip with my husband and
I had the most amazing time.
Cause.
I was big into the castlesand learning about the history
and things like that, so,
Stef (19:05):
we went
Alexis (19:07):
to London, so we did all the castles in that area, and
then we made a trip to Amsterdamas well and did all that stuff.
Didn't make it to the Anne FrankHouse, but did a lot of other,
like, history things over there,but it was a wonderful time.
Highly recommend for anybody.
Stef (19:22):
Yeah, if you've got a few thousand dollars just sittin
around, then yeah, definitely.
Alexis (19:26):
Definitely was a trip we saved for
Stef (19:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Alexis (19:30):
and then I got invariant like my middle school slash high school era.
very much gotten to the crime shows.
So I was like, like law and order,special victims unit, just general
law and order, CSI, all that.
And I was convinced I wasgoing to be a forensic person.
And then I realized there's a lot ofscience and math that goes into that.
And I'm, and I am not goodat that, those subjects.
(19:52):
So jumped that off that ship.
and then I just kind offigured out that social work
Like you can do so muchwith a social work degree.
the careers that I've chosen thatI've wanted to do in some way,
it kind of helps people and I'veloved volunteering in some aspect.
And then when it came into my juniorslash senior year of college, I
When it's that time to sign upfor internships, I saw RISE, I was
(20:15):
like, I kind of want to do that.
So I signed up for it and here I am.
Stef (20:20):
It's interesting that the community of support for, sexual
and partner violence and whatnot.
They love their acronymsis what it sounds like.
They love to abbreviate thingsand turn them into new words.
Alexis (20:31):
absolutely.
Honestly, if you look up more of them,I mean, I know we have Y's somewhere.
So, when I used to work at RISE, peoplewould get us confused with Y's with a W.
Um, got Rave, got Cove, it'sjust If you look up, there's
just a bunch of different ones,
Stef (20:46):
what kind of drove you into working in the capacity that you do?
Do you spend any time one on onewith people who have experienced
these things or do you spend moretime working with the community?
Alexis (20:57):
I definitely do a lot more of the community side, but I definitely fill into
shelter if we ever have a need for it.
If RSAs have been overworkedand they need a break.
sometimes I'll be asked to justkind of pop in and work for a
couple of hours in the shelter.
So I will definitely meet with some of theclients in there while they're in there.
my office is, it's right next to shelter.
So I do the mail as well.
(21:18):
So I can walk in and I'll drop mail offand I'll see a client every so often.
So definitely more the communityside, but I do still get to
interact with clients every so often
Stef (21:27):
Could you give sort of the quick overview of what you all are involved in?
Yeah, my little elevator pitch.
Yeah, there we go.
Yeah, so Relief High FrontLine Encounter, we are a 24 7,
Alexis (21:40):
Emergency shelter and crisis line for, survivors of
domestic or sexual violence.
we service men, women, and children,so anybody and everybody who pretty
much calls our crisis line, we canhelp them in some sort of capacity.
our emergency shelter, mainlyhouses women and children.
Um, but For men, they are more thanwelcome to call us and we still have other
(22:01):
ways we're able to hotel them or motelthem and figure out what we can do to
help them escape their situation as well.
not a lot of people understandthat males can be, victims as well.
So we always emphasize that.
They can always call us as welland we can figure something out.
we also provide different typesof counseling for survivors.
And they're all free and confidential.
(22:22):
don't require any insurance.
or any kind of payments of anything.
all those counselings are fora DV and SA as well, domestic
violence and sexual assault.
And we also have a youth advocate thatdoes the children's advocacy part of it.
her name is Abby.
She's wonderful.
And she does kiddos betweenthe ages of 4 and 17.
(22:43):
children who are in shelter, so she'sable to work with them, provide that kind
of advocacy and support in any capacity.
And then she also works withanybody or a parent who calls in
saying that their children mighthave gone through or witnessed a,
um, domestic violence incident.
And she could work with them as well.
And our sexual assault advocate,Patricia, she could do kiddos for sexual
(23:05):
assault for the same age range andthen we also have our legal advocate.
what she does is she can do,um, PPOs, which are personal
protection orders for those whomay not know that kind of acronym.
Again, we love our acronyms sometimes.
Um,
Stef (23:19):
is, is set by the, yeah, what people would previously have
known as a restraining order.
Alexis (23:24):
exactly.
she's able to help them with that process,sit down with them, talk it through with
them, And then sit with them in court,especially if they are going through a
trial and they're, um, facing their abuserfor the first time since They have been
arrested, then she's able to providethat support and walking through the
process, make sure they're comfortableand provide any kind of support or
advocacy they need at that point as well.
(23:46):
we also have our emergency response,advocate, and her name is Donna, and
she coordinates with any local policedepartments might call the shelter
requesting an advocate to respond to thescene of a domestic or sexual assault that
has taken place, and shewill respond to one of those.
biggest thing is just making sure thatthe perpetrator has been arrested, and
(24:06):
then she's able to coordinate unless thepolice are able to transport the client
to a hospital or another safe location,then she's able to provide the advocacy.
So she pretty much is able to followthe client to wherever they need to,
whether that's the hospital or, shelter.
Stef (24:20):
Could you explain what the importance is for having the, uh,
perpetrator be absent when the,
Alexis (24:26):
mainly it's just a big safety thing, especially if
they have fleed the police.
most of the time the police will stillbe there, but just for an extra safety
concern, we don't know if there's anyweapons involved I think she also has
started to do it where they go out topairs of two, to the scene so that there's
always another person there with them
Stef (24:45):
Yeah.
that's safety for everyone too,because would imagine that in those
situations, you run the risk of theadvocate being a target the perpetrator
would see them as Someone who istrying to intervene in a situation
where they want to regain control.
Alexis (24:58):
statistically, that, time in the relationship when they're trying
to leave is the most dangerous time
So definitely trying to treadcarefully and figure out the best
ways to handle that scenario as well.
Stef (25:10):
that is one of those really scary statistics, if you have not experienced
anything like this, or you don'trealize that you know somebody who's
experienced one of these scenarios,um, you may not be familiar with, that
tendency to escalate in those situations.
I won't claim to be an expert here.
but, my understanding is that withsexual assault and with domestic
(25:34):
abuse, it's not about emotion.
It's not about rage.
It's about power andcontrol in those situations.
there is a common misunderstanding that,abusers, that they lose control, that
they do this because their rage gets outof hand or because they're drunk or, or
whatever, but it's a loss of control.
in fact, it's exactly theopposite in those situations.
Alexis (25:58):
There's definitely a lot that goes into Factor about it.
The biggest thing, like you said,power and control, if you just Google
the power and control wheel, that's abig resource that we use for clients,
especially if they're going throughcounseling or if they're coming to
shelter for, for the first time.
We like to show them thepower and control wheel
Stef (26:15):
And I'll add that to our
Alexis (26:16):
our website.
Yeah.
Stef (26:17):
it out if you're interested.
Alexis (26:19):
absolutely, and it's a great resource to see, what people might
call the red flags in a relationship,like using the children against them,
or, pretty much like threateningto harm the children in any way
if the survivor is trying to leavethe relationship at some point.
That can be a big factoras why they're not leaving.
or using intimidation,threatening them somehow.
the whole wheel describes a lot of aspectsthat can go into it, because in the middle
(26:42):
of everything, it's that power control.
They want some way that they can holdtheir power over the survivor and
control them in any aspect of their life
Stef (26:52):
one of the easiest ways to be able to, locate the dissonance
between how they behave with theperson they are abusing and how they,
behave under other circumstances.
Look how these people behave.
When they're at work, look how thesepeople behave in front of their friends
or anyone else that they are not, youknow, trying to, to put in that position.
(27:12):
It's amazing how an abuser, howthey can go from zero to 60 and back
again, just because they are suddenlybeing overheard by someone that
they don't want to overhear them.
You think these people don't have control.
Watch them suddenly go from.
seeming enraged to just uttercalm or, you know, joking around.
(27:33):
And that's all you needto know right there.
Alexis (27:36):
Absolutely.
you can obviously have someonewho is calm, cool, and collected,
sometimes in the office area andthen something can just kind of set
them off and you just never knowwhat's going to happen sometimes.
Stef (27:47):
that lack of, of predictability is, I think, part of what makes dealing
with those individuals so terrifying.
But I think it's also a big part of whyso many individuals will find themselves,
you know, getting back in the cycle withsomeone and not, getting out of that
situation, getting into a safe placebecause when you see someone turn that
(28:10):
switch off again, it's so easy to tellyourself, well this, that wasn't them.
Alexis (28:15):
Yeah.
Stef (28:16):
Um, like this, this is who they really are.
they just lost control for a minute or
Alexis (28:21):
Absolutely.
And sometimes that self-blamingcan kind of come in too, where
it's, it was my fault that Right.
He set himself off or things like that.
And
Stef (28:28):
If I didn't do this, then it
Alexis (28:30):
Exactly.
So we definitely try to let them knowthat it wasn't their fault and that we
believe them and again, that's wherewe'll show 'em the power control.
Like this is the aspects that youmight have seen and that is not you.
It's.
They're rooted in this power andcontrol aspect, and they, it's just,
it's hard for them to break that cycle.
you just mentioned that they're unableto leave, and they get back in that
(28:51):
cycle, and statistically, for thewomen's side of it, it takes them
statistically about seven times beforethey're able to leave that relationship.
we always do emphasize with clients that,Mental and emotional abuse are forms of
abuse because not everybody knows that.
Stef (29:09):
Right.
Um, and
Alexis (29:10):
so especially the whole gaslighting aspect.
Um, I feel like that's a word that's,
Stef (29:15):
It gets thrown around a lot,
Alexis (29:16):
absolutely.
And I feel like some people don't knowthe concept of what gaslighting is.
when we have callers thatexplain their situation to us
and sometimes they're like, well,he's not putting his hands on me.
But he's doing this, this, and thisin a mental or emotional aspect.
We always tell them thatthat is a form of abuse.
You're getting put down.
mentally and emotionally, you'rebeing torn down in some form.
(29:37):
And that is a form of abuse.
So, um,
Stef (29:40):
in those situations, the person who is doing this, they're
doing it with the purposeful intentof trying to make you feel like
Alexis (29:52):
you
Stef (29:53):
to submit to them in some way.
when it's the emotional abuse ofmaking you feel bad about yourself,
they are specifically trying toput you under a form of control.
So, could you explain whatgaslighting actually is?
Alexis (30:07):
Yeah.
what I've seen is just any kind oflanguage that can make the other
person feel like they're going crazyor that they're not being believed
or, what they believe is not true
Stef (30:18):
the Wikipedia definition of it, yes, because, you know, we're
aiming for professionalism here.
It is a colloquialism loosely definedas manipulating someone into questioning
their own perception of reality.
the purpose of it is a reallyimportant aspect of it.
And I think this is why it gets misuseda lot it's not disagreeing with you.
It's not, it's not having a differenceof opinion about something happened.
(30:41):
That's not gaslighting.
What gaslighting is, is when theperson is intentionally trying
to make you think that something.
that happened, didn't happen, or Thatyour perception is factually incorrect
in order to put you off balanceand to, to make you question like,
(31:04):
well, they wouldn't say this to meif they didn't genuinely believe it.
So it makes, you know, it puts youin a position where you feel like you
might have to actually consider theirpoint of view that they're coming
at this from a genuine perspectivewhen really in those situations
They know what they're saying
Alexis (31:21):
Oh, absolutely.
And it
Stef (31:23):
to write it, rewrite the
Alexis (31:24):
absolutely.
And it comes with that intent behind it isthat they know that they can mentally and
emotionally hurt this person in some way.
So, um, That's why I think it's importantto kind of highlight that term because
I feel like sometimes people just throwit around, especially on social media.
I feel like
Stef (31:40):
Yes, it's very buzzy.
Yes, I feel like,
Alexis (31:42):
I feel like definitely on TikTok, I've that term thrown around so much where
it's just, oh, this person gaslit me.
trying to show what that definitionis can help bring some kind
of, clarity to survivors who.
are trying to figure out andnavigate what is going on in the
relationship and understanding andknowing that that is a form of abuse.
(32:03):
So.
Stef (32:04):
Right.
that really contributes to,struggling with trying to identify
what's happening to you too.
the reason that, that these areconversations that are so difficult
and so many individuals findthemselves unable to identify it or,
inclined towards trying to, to playit down, dismiss it, is because we
(32:25):
don't talk about this culturally.
we don't have honest conversations about,these topics and we don't generally
create open spaces to make peoplefeel safe having these conversations.
Alexis (32:38):
Absolutely.
Stef (32:39):
We victim blame a lot.
If we even acknowledge thatsomething is happening.
Alexis (32:44):
Especially, I think I've seen it more, especially
with the sexual assault aspect
Stef (32:49):
Oh certainly.
Yeah.
Especially.
Yeah.
Especially.
Alexis (32:51):
after the whole Me Too movement came out and, Survivors coming in years
after the sexual assaults taken place.
And you just see so many peoplecoming for the survivors and saying,
why didn't you come forward sooner?
Why didn't you do this?
And, oh, they're just lookingfor attention where it's just,
Stef (33:10):
whole
Alexis (33:11):
blaming culture I feel like it's become more prominent
since the mean two movement.
Because,
Stef (33:15):
It's a backlash,
Alexis (33:16):
exactly.
And but more survivors feel morecomfortable now to come forward
because they can see that,
Stef (33:22):
their,
Alexis (33:22):
perpetrator can be convicted in some form and then you just see so
much backlash because it's been yearsand people are just coming from them
because they took so long, but theydon't understand the trauma aspect of it
Stef (33:36):
Oh yeah.
Alexis (33:37):
how terrifying it can be to come forward and say that this happened
to me because sexual assault It's verytraumatic and the process of doing
the SANE exam, the Sexual AssaultNurse Examiner's Kit, that can be very
traumatic as well as in depth and howlong it takes sometimes for survivors.
The whole process can be difficult totalk to, especially to a law enforcement
(34:01):
officer, not knowing if they're goingto take you seriously or if they're
going to blame you for something.
that's why I always emphasizethat we believe you, um, come
to us and we can support you
We have people that can providethat support and resources because
you should, feel believed and,
Stef (34:17):
the incidence of, um, false reporting on these
things are all but negligible.
at the end of the day, What is the harm?
What could possibly prevent you fromchoosing to believe someone who has
chosen to confide in you about this?
and beyond that when we haveconversations with people we care about
and we know that they've been hurtin this way, we feel powerless too.
(34:39):
we want to, you know, fixthe situation in some way.
sometimes we end up doing thingsthat are more detrimental because.
Alexis (34:48):
it's
Stef (34:49):
hard for us to have that inside perspective maybe you see that the
easiest way out of this is literallyout, but that might not necessarily
be the full picture for the personwho's actually experiencing it.
There's a lot of complexities to it.
Alexis (35:04):
Oh, absolutely.
I would say anybody who has somebodythat has been assaulted in some capacity,
just emphasizing that you believethem and you can provide support or
offer up, RAVE as a resource and wecan take it from there if you don't
know how to handle that situation.
Stef (35:21):
the worst that's going to happen is that, someone will listen to you.
something to be aware of, because ifyou are not sure in those situations,
what you're experiencing having someoneelse offer you perspective, someone
who has seen this enough and who hasrecognized the signs enough to be
able to sort of talk you through it.
there's no downside to that.
I wish it was a conversation that wewere having more with younger people
(35:43):
I looked up a handful of differentstatistics beforehand, almost half
of all women and men in the U.
S.
have experienced, this is not specificallydomestic abuse, it's the term,
psychological aggression by an intimatepartner, which is a broader framework.
It's not necessarily physicalviolence, It falls into that purview
of abuse and it speaks a lot to,to how much this is happening
Alexis (36:05):
Yes.
Stef (36:06):
and, and how much, we're not necessarily talking about it.
there is a stigma that it'splaced upon men that, You have
to react in a certain way.
first of all, it can't happen to you.
Um, and second of all, if itdoes happen to you, you're,
Alexis (36:21):
You're not
Stef (36:22):
yeah, yeah, your masculinity
Alexis (36:23):
Your masculinity
Stef (36:24):
requires that you, um, ignore this is happening which
is just, it's just nonsense.
we can all emotionally beaffected by a partner in this way.
the other aspect of it that for me reallyhits home is that, the group that is
most likely to be affected by intimatepartner violence is women 18 to 34.
it's not necessarily that those womenare more susceptible, you're more likely
(36:47):
I supposed to be in a, a non committedrelationship to be dating at that age.
it goes back to that.
We just don't have these conversations.
And so if this isn't a conversationthat's happening in your household
when you're growing up, And itdoesn't even necessarily have to be
specifically about, partner abuse.
It can be about personal boundaries.
(37:08):
It can be about, justrelationships in general and
how a partner should treat you.
when I was in college whenthe Twilight books came out.
Oh Those okay.
I probably should take out the sound thatI just made but I mean that is a real
That is a an honest reaction for me aboutthose books I feel like those books set
back the partner abuse conversation so far
Alexis (37:32):
I mean, did I enjoy reading those
Stef (37:33):
Sure, yeah, they're they're very they're they're they're Um, you
know, they're popcorny, certainly
But the, first of all,Edward watches her sleep.
Alexis (37:42):
Yeah.
That one
Stef (37:43):
it's not romantic.
It's disturbing.
he bosses her around at onepoint he actually kidnaps her
and puts her under house arrestbasically because he knows better.
and he isolates her a lot.
And Also, very importantthing to note, he's not 17.
Alexis (38:01):
Nope.
Stef (38:02):
He is like a hundred.
Alexis (38:04):
A hundred.
Stef (38:05):
And like, I know that this sounds like a silly way to approach this
topic, I don't think Stephanie Meyerintended to it, but she wrote a textbook
version of what a young partner abusesituation looks like and then wrote it
as, as though it was super romantic.
Alexis (38:22):
absolutely, and I mean, you obviously don't think about it
then, but like as you get older, yourealize that, wow, it's just crazy
to think back to it and just noticingthose signs and realizing that it
was not the greatest relationship
Stef (38:36):
relationship.
Yeah.
And, and the precedents that it setfor that generation of, of young women
who were sort of looking for theirown Edward and may have found the,
the worst possible version of that.
we tend to put into sort of, genderroles, even like parents will treat.
young girls and young boys differently.
(38:57):
and they very subtly sort of give themclues how to behave and they don't
necessarily have those open conversations.
this was very much my own experiencewhen I was young, my whole experience of
what relationships were supposed to looklike other than, my parents, which no one
really views their, their parents as aromantic foil, was Like romantic comedies
(39:17):
and movie love, that sort of thing.
when I was 18, I ended up in arelationship with someone who was 13 years
older than me, not realizing, you alwayshave to be careful with age gaps because
that's a pretty big red flag in terms ofpower dynamics, I didn't know when I was
18 that there were aspects that I neededto, you know, be on the lookout for.
(39:40):
and the situation I found myself in thatwas not physical for a very long time.
so many people find themselves insituations where they are being
emotionally abused in some way and theydon't recognize it because they just think
that it's a very emotional relationship.
I'm with a really emotional person.
or I'm with a person who's depressedand like they can't help it.
(40:03):
I look back on, on so many of thethings that happened, when I was in
that relationship and I, as an adult,I can look back and cringe and think,
oh, how did I not see that at the time?
when you're young, when you don't have amodel, red flags are really hard to see.
Yeah.
If someone is making you feel bad aboutyourself, if they have emotional outbursts
(40:23):
and then say, you know, I did this becauseyou did this, if you hadn't behaved like
this, then it wouldn't have been an issue.
trying to reform you into what they,expect you to be and, trying to push
you to do things you don't want to.
Cause so often with sexual assaults,the misconception is that it's
somebody that you don't really know.
So often it comes from partners.
Alexis (40:44):
coercion aspect of it
Stef (40:46):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Alexis (40:47):
a big part of it too.
Stef (40:49):
Yeah.
You can, and you can absolutelybe, sexually assaulted by a
partner because even with apartner consent is always expected.
Like you, you don't give up that consentjust because you're with someone.
Alexis (41:00):
absolutely.
Stef (41:01):
Um, and that's a really important thing that I feel
like, young people should be madeaware of on both sides of it.
Alexis (41:07):
Oh, absolutely.
You,
Stef (41:08):
not to throw into the gender stereotypes, but as, a young man, If
you're in a relationship with a partner,they have not told you that you have, free
license to behave however you want to,just because you're in a relationship.
my experience was that over time,because that precedent was set for
so long, it did end up eventuallyescalating to physical violence.
(41:29):
Um, and at that point I was so welltrained and I had pushed so many
friends away because I didn't understandwhat's happening and I felt trapped
and it was just easier to push peopleaway and not let them know what was
happening to me because I didn't feellike I could have that conversation.
So when it reached the point whereit did become physical, and I had to
(41:50):
literally start hiding bruises andwhatnot, at that point I was so far gone.
I didn't really knowhow to protect myself.
and in my situation, the onlyway I managed to get away from.
this person was to literallymove out of the state.
So I didn't have to see them anymore.
the support system was not there.
It's not that I didn't have friends.
It's not that I didn't havepeople who cared about me.
(42:12):
It's just, they didn't know exactlywhat to do in that situation.
I offer this mostly becausepersonally, I look back and I wish
Alexis (42:21):
that
Stef (42:21):
there had been a mechanism socially to have these conversations more openly.
I wish they had beenconversations when I was younger.
so that I felt like I couldspeak up in those situations.
I'm a big advocate for having thoseopen conversations with young people.
around or before the age they startgetting into relationships because
(42:44):
this can even happen with teenagers.
Oh,
Alexis (42:46):
teenagers.
Oh, absolutely.
first of all, for sharing your story.
with us and everybody who's listening,going on the topic of teaching them young
about the signs and things like that.
our youth advocate tries togo into the schools and teach
about, the power control wheel.
There's actually a team power andcontrol wheel that's out there as
Stef (43:03):
well.
Alexis (43:04):
especially the high school age because definitely during that time.
Stef (43:07):
They're starting to have relationships.
They're exploring what it looks like.
Yep.
Alexis (43:11):
so showing them the red flags of relationship, but then also what
a healthy relationship looks like.
that you should feel loved andcherished and you shouldn't fear for
your safety and things like that.
So, we definitely show themthe green flags of what,
Stef (43:26):
what, the
Alexis (43:27):
two sides of it.
we would definitely love to get intomore school systems and show, More
kids and young adults what thosekind of relationships looks like so
Starting small and then obviouslyhere at flat river great resource.
we're doing the body safety Probablywe'll be done by the time this comes out.
Consent is key,
Stef (43:45):
yes, my kids tell me all the time that they're like, I
don't want to be hugged right now.
And I think it's because we've had thatconversation enough at home that they
know that that's all they have to say.
And I'll back off.
we all have the right tohave our own physical space
Alexis (44:01):
Absolutely.
Stef (44:02):
tickling.
That's an important one.
that's a hell that I die on.
Do not tickle childrenunless they say it's okay.
I know.
Yeah, it seems like you'rejust joking around but it is
Alexis (44:13):
It's their personal space, and that's a bound, that's a boundary that
you're kind of crossing in an aspect,
Right,
Stef (44:18):
kids should be, they have to do their homework and they have to
brush their teeth, but they should beallowed to say no about stuff like this.
Absolutely.
Parenting 101.
Right.
with the older kids, when you'retalking about relationships, I
love that you all go into schoolsto have these conversations.
I think what would be reallyvaluable too is to try to educate
more parents about having, right?
(44:38):
Because It's even hard to have theseconversations in a school setting, because
when you're surrounded by your classmates,you're, especially at that age, it's an
uncomfortable topic, and you're probably,you're going to try to laugh it off,
with the best possible methods, but Ifyou can start these conversations one
on one, and even if you're, as a parent,not totally comfortable, if they have
another safe adult that, that you are okaywith them having this conversation with,
(45:01):
another family member or a family friend,someone that they can feel safe talking
to about this stuff, don't we want allof our kids to feel prepared and safe?
able to come with questionsif they have them.
and you know, we all want ourkids to feel like they can come
to us if they're in trouble.
Alexis (45:18):
Absolutely.
And that's also super important as well.
parents who are bringing theirkiddos in for counseling or advocacy
with our youth advocate, she alwaysemphasizes that if they need any
parental resources or anything likethat, she can provide that as well.
Or their counselor individually canalso provide them any kind of parenting
guides or how to best support their childduring this time or things like that
Stef (45:40):
Yeah, all of this stuff starts at home.
you are your kid's safe space.
and the more you canmaintain that the better.
I think that also, underscores thatyou all are definitely great emergency
resource advocates and, you provide, a lotof resources, specifically for people who
are right in the middle of that situation.
but.
There are also a lot of things that youall can provide sort of preventatively
(46:04):
to give you information about, howto educate your own kids, how to
educate yourself about these topics.
Alexis (46:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
And if, after hearing this, if anybodywants to reach out and have myself or
our youth advocate or sexual assaultadvocate come in and teach those
preventative tactics, we are alwaysavailable and willing to come and do that
Because, yeah.
We would
Stef (46:25):
reach out and ask questions if you're not
Alexis (46:27):
Oh, absolutely.
Our phones are again, 24 seven.
So, and we say crisis line, obviouslyit's for any survivors who are needing
immediate assistance, but we can alsohelp anybody in the community or just
listen to somebody just chat about what'sgoing on if they are in situation or if
another community member is saying thatthey realize that their daughter might be
(46:49):
in an abusive relationship but they don'tknow how to kind of proceed with that.
They can always reach out to us and wecan try to help as much as we can So
it's not just the emergency part of it.
We're available to anybody who needsto call us and look for any kind
of resources or any kind of support
Stef (47:03):
Yeah, I appreciated what you said in the, presentation that you did
for Coalition of Greater Greatvillethe other day that, in the best case
scenario, your work would be so effectivethat your jobs would become obsolete.
ultimately I think our goal shouldbe to have these conversations
and to create a culture wherewe don't need these emergency
Alexis (47:20):
Yeah,
Stef (47:21):
same extent that, we can teach our children to become adults who,
who don't end up in these situationsor who are able to get help when
they do end up in these situations.
Alexis (47:30):
absolutely.
But otherwise we will be here advocatingfor survivors as, as long as we're needed.
So
Stef (47:37):
that the, the conversation starts with all of us.
we are all equally, apart of this conversation.
so thank you for sticking with us.
I know this was a very intenseconversation, but, it's obviously
something I feel very strongly about too,as someone who survived that as well.
I am a huge believer in, educatingyoung people to try to prevent
(47:57):
those situations happening again.
I'm so grateful that we haveyour group in our community and
that those resources are there.
Alexis (48:06):
thank you.
And we're also grateful to all thecommunity members out there who support
our mission and are always willingto, step out and help us with any kind
of emergency needs we might have, or.
Just support our mission in any capacitySo thank you to everybody out there
Stef (48:22):
You've got an event coming up to support you all.
Did you want to mention that as well?
Oh,
Alexis (48:25):
absolutely.
so we have our annual Corksand Kegs fundraiser that is
taking place on May 10th.
it'll be at Shadow Ridge, GolfCourse and Banquet Center in Ionia.
And it's a craft beer andwine tasting that we have.
Um, tickets are 35.
And yeah, it's just a fun night of, uh,raising money for survivors in our agency.
(48:47):
and any future ones that we may have thatcome through our doors and just support
our mission and keep up with whatever weneed around shelter and things like that.
But there'll be a silent auction,food, raffles and fun things like that.
So yeah, come join
Stef (49:03):
and what date was that again?
Alexis (49:04):
May 10th.
It's from 5 to 8 p.
m.
Stef (49:07):
Okay.
So that's coming up here soon.
And I, I will put informationabout that on our website as well.
thank you again for sitting down with me.
Please feel free to reach out to them,even if you're just interested in hearing
more what they do or getting involved.
Alexis (49:18):
thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Stef (49:20):
take care.
all right, so we've got a change of planshere, our special guest for the day, is
making me work for my salary today, soI'm gonna apply some tough love management
technique here, and I'm gonna pass over,podcast hosting duties to our guest
who is shaking her head and just like,why are you doing this to me right now?
(49:42):
She's never going to come back
Danielle (49:43):
to come
Megan (49:43):
Never.
Stef (49:44):
you're definitely not going to be a librarian after this.
That's for sure.
Yep.
Okay.
All right.
So our new host, Megan Wonderjam.
You can ask questions if
Megan (49:52):
don't, I don't have any questions to ask.
Stef (49:54):
You don't need, you can't even come up with questions to ask.
Danielle (49:57):
ask.
Megan (49:58):
not that interesting.
Stef (50:00):
Well, when you're asking questions, you don't have to be interesting.
You just have to figure out how you canput it, push it off onto somebody else.
Danielle (50:06):
So, you say, like, what made you want to go into being a director?
Megan (50:11):
Can, yeah, answer,
Stef (50:12):
put me on the spot
Megan (50:12):
answer that one.
Why, yeah.
Stef (50:15):
Um, so I, God you are cheating.
Even your mom is doingit for you at this point.
so I didn't wanna bedirector for a long time.
I always told myself that, like,that would be when I didn't have any
energy left to do anything else, thatwould be sort of where I would land.
I was a patron here at this libraryfor, for years before working here,
(50:35):
and I always really loved this librarybecause it's spectacular, which, you
know, if you didn't notice, we are,we got voted best library by the Daily
News in our area, so we are, you know,fundamentally the awesomest, But it
was sort of like, it was something thatwas more a practical choice as opposed
to like something I wanted to do.
And then I realized that, being a directormeant that I could take all of the crazy,
(51:01):
enormous ideas that I have that probablywould not seem realistic under normal
circumstances and just run with them.
And they just let me do it.
And we're lucky enough here that we havea lot of community support and we, we are
decently well funded so a lot of these,a lot of these crazy ideas of mine I've
managed to bring to fruition like thisabsurd podcast situation that's happening.
This was one of my random ideas thatwas almost entirely prompted by the fact
(51:24):
that there were sales on, Amazon PrimeDay for equipment and I really like
getting Amazon packages in the mail.
so that's why we're here right now.
Um, but then of course the stuff withBlackfield too and driving past that
every day and thinking, man, I really wishsomebody would give us that piece of land.
so we're working on that right now too.
and I'm much better at bossing peoplearound than being bossed around.
Megan (51:46):
bossed around.
Stef (51:47):
so that's why I'm here.
But we also have, like, really greatpeople here, which is why I'm still here.
I've worked with some just trulyawful people over the years.
I think we all have.
If you've reached a certain pointin your life, you've, you've
worked with some awful people.
I would say pretty much everybodywho works here, they're here and they
continue to be here because they reallylike our library, they like what we
(52:08):
do and, They feel good about doingsomething positive for the community.
So,
so that was a good two minutesthat I just talked there.
It's totally doable.
If you just let yourself blurt stuff out
Megan (52:18):
Yeah.
Stef (52:19):
back to you,
Megan (52:19):
Uh, what about you?
You can take it over.
Mom?
Stef (52:24):
you're still the host.
Megan (52:25):
Nope.
No.
Stef (52:26):
stop trying to make things go away.
One of the things you're going tolearn as you grow up is that sometimes
you're going to be tasked with thingsthat, that you weren't prepared for
and you just got to run with them.
And try to do your best with them.
If somebody, like, brings you a deadbody and they're like, you have to
figure out what happened to thisperson, and you don't know what you're
doing, you just gotta figure it out.
(52:46):
so here's your, this isyour assignment for today.
is, is the public speaking sideof having to do school work one
of your least favorite things?
Megan (52:55):
question, I promise.
Okay.
So it's one of those things where
Stef (53:07):
Okay, so it's one of those things where there's a, the lead up is a lot
more than, yeah, that's understandable.
Um, I feel like that, that evolvesas you get older too, and it either
gets worse or it gets better.
Um, I didn't really like publicspeaking when I was younger, but.
Now clearly I just enjoythe sound of my own voice.
Megan (53:26):
so I embrace
Stef (53:27):
embrace every opportunity I get to do it.
So do you would you say that you'regenerally more introverted or not?
Megan (53:32):
Yeah, for sure.
Okay.
Stef (53:34):
but you said that you're more your term was a yapper in
Megan (53:37):
home.
Stef (53:38):
fun term.
It makes you sound like a puppy
Megan (53:40):
it makes you At home, I
yap a lot.
Stef (53:43):
but not at school.
Megan (53:45):
With my friends, but
Stef (53:47):
Do any sort of like groups that you get involved with in school, or do
you do sports or anything like that?
Megan (53:52):
No.
Stef (53:53):
Okay.
I mean, there is nothingwrong with that, honestly.
Like, when people talk about doingsports, it takes a specific personality
to be comfortable, potentially justfalling on your face in front of people.
have you been friends withyour friends for a long time?
Megan (54:08):
time?
Yeah, since like middle school.
Stef (54:10):
Okay.
do you see yourself being one ofthose people that has like sort of
lifelong friends that you will stickwith, with people for a long time?
Danielle (54:17):
a
Megan (54:18):
Um, I'm not sure.
I guess it depends on like,what they do for college.
So, yeah, and like where they go forcollege, but like right now I throw
a lot of parties for my friends.
So,
Stef (54:32):
that mom knows about?
Megan (54:33):
yes, yes, yes, she knows about these parties.
So I'm, because I like stillhaving everyone get together
and keep the friend group.
But.
Stef (54:44):
So, would you say that you're a group person or a one on one person
Megan (54:47):
I don't know.
I guess it depends on Do
Stef (54:49):
you work better in a team or do you prefer to work I'm going into interview
Megan (54:53):
doing an interview mode here.
No, uh, it depends onthe people that I have.
Because some of them, if I'm in a group,they kind of section themselves off.
And so then I kind oflike, I'm left alone.
Well, with some other people,I like being like one on one.
Okay.
Because it's just easierto like, talk to them and
Stef (55:12):
Yeah, and I feel like that becomes more true as you get, more adult as well.
How do you feel like you are withyour, your social group, Danielle?
Danielle (55:21):
What social group?
Megan (55:22):
I mean,
Stef (55:23):
a legit question at this age, we don't do groups necessarily, or like, we
get isolated really easily as adults, so,
Danielle (55:31):
Yeah, no, I, I'm pretty much a loner, I guess you can say, because all
of my friends have moved away and it'shard to try to keep in touch with them.
So when I do have time, I tryto travel up to Baldwin to
visit one of my best friends.
But other than that, it'sjust me and my friends here
(55:52):
at work.
Stef (55:52):
You almost made that sound sincere.
Danielle (55:55):
I know!
It was so close.
Stef (55:58):
but it almost seemed like you were trying not to sound
sincere and that's what you, youlike sabotage yourself on it.
Danielle (56:04):
did.
Stef (56:04):
I'd say generally speaking, not including me because I'm the boss and
I'm also not very nice, but generallyspeaking, staff is, made friends within
the staff, which is also nice as longas we're like also doing our job.
Because I've also worked placeswhere like being friends meant
like, oh, you're going to cover mewhile I'm not doing my job properly.
And it's like, well, no, I'm not because.
(56:26):
That makes my life harder.
it really does gettrickier the older you get.
There's something like, this is goingto be kind of hoity toity, but you
have to appreciate when you're likein high school and college, what a
great opportunity it is to meet newpeople and to be immersed in your
friends in that period of your life.
Cause the older you get, theharder it is to find time.
Ferris is where you're aiming for.
(56:47):
Okay.
is it like ride or die, or doyou have other backup options?
Megan (56:52):
I don't have any other backup options at the moment.
I've mostly just been looking at Ferris,
Stef (56:57):
Okay.
Well, it's reasonably close, whichis convenient, Is there anything in
particular, other than where it'sat, that drew you to that school?
Megan (57:06):
I mean my cousin's also going to Ferris, so it would just be
nice to have someone I know there.
Stef (57:11):
Oh yeah, That always helps.
Although, again, Maybe this is justme because I burn bridges, but,
I found that one of the most funthings about going to college was
just kind of starting fresh too.
were you planning on living on thecampus or were you going to stay here?
Megan (57:25):
I want to live on the campus.
Stef (57:27):
Okay.
it gives you the opportunity to sortof be in a space where everybody's
meeting new people at the same time.
Cause being the new kid is not fun,but if everybody's the new kid, Then
everybody kind of just goes bananasand your brain hasn't fully formed
yet, so you make decisions thataren't necessarily the best decisions
It's a beautiful time.
but no, seriously, I have a lot ofrespect for the extremely, responsible
(57:51):
and practical young people that arelike, I'm going to go to community
college and I'm going to stay athome and I'm going to, you know,
I'm going to do this practically.
And it's like, that's great, butyou kind of have to just be stupid
for a little while when you're acollege freshman, because you can
make mistakes at that point that youwill not get away with later in life.
Danielle (58:10):
a
Stef (58:12):
time.
I'd say that completely unsarcastically.
That you will never get back.
that's probably enough, right?
Megan (58:17):
only made you
Stef (58:19):
I really only made you be host for like 30 seconds.
so well done you.
I feel like that was beautifully handled.
Megan (58:25):
I think I did pretty well.
Stef (58:26):
yeah, I think so too, absolutely.
You talked a little bit more.
So,
Megan (58:30):
working on it.
Yeah,
Danielle (58:31):
Yeah, we
Stef (58:32):
got there.
Well, I'm sorry, Megan.
I apologize for everything I just I'llsend you back to circulation and you
can go back to processing hold, go backto the school and be like, don't do job
Danielle (58:41):
job shadowing.
They
Stef (58:42):
you do, they record you doing things and it's like they
make you host their podcast forthem and it's just not worth it.
but seriously, thank youfor being game for it.
I appreciate it.
and not, Not immediately assuming that itwas gonna be please don't make me do this.
Please, please don't make me do this.
and thank you Danielle forbeing open to it, as well.
Thanks a lot guys.
Danielle (59:03):
You're
Megan (59:04):
Yep.
Take
Danielle (59:05):
care.
I am Steph Reed.
I am the director of theFlat River Community Library.
Speaker 8 (00:18):
I'm Danielle Wonder Jim.
I am the technician, service specialist
Speaker 16 (00:25):
I'm Megan Wonderjem.
I'm a student at theGreenville High School.
Alexis (00:30):
So, uh,
my
Thain, and I'm the Volunteer andOutreach Coordinator for RAVE,
Cory (00:38):
Welcome to the Flat River Front Porch.
Stef (00:42):
is there anything you want to talk about?
Talk about anything.
Well, that's not helpful.
not helpful,
Speaker 15 (00:47):
not
Speaker 16 (00:48):
helpful.
Speaker (00:49):
feel like we're in our one on run right
Speaker 7 (00:50):
I know.
Speaker (00:51):
every time I sit down with her for our monthly one on
one, I'm like, so how's it going?
And she's like, good.
Speaker 16 (00:58):
And if I
Speaker (00:59):
say anything else, she'll just sit there in silence and stare at me.
Speaker 16 (01:02):
Yeah, me too.
Me too.
Speaker (01:04):
I don't know if it's me.
Speaker 8 (01:05):
It's not you.
Nope.
Speaker (01:07):
I don't think I'm intimidating, but, and not to throw you under the
bus here, but I feel like earlieron, it was more like you were still
getting used to me and you were stillgetting comfortable with me and now
it seems like you're comfortable.
You're just like, I don'thave anything to talk about,
which is hilarious
Speaker 7 (01:23):
because
Speaker 14 (01:23):
life
Speaker (01:24):
is always full of excitement and chaos.
So we get it on a daily basis,but when somebody puts you on the
spot, you're just like, I'm good.
Speaker 14 (01:31):
you're
Speaker 8 (01:31):
I'm good.
Speaker 16 (01:32):
I'm good.
Speaker (01:33):
I got to catch it on the fly.
That's what I'm learning.
Okay.
hello everyone.
I hope we've got some new listeners now.
if you saw the article about the podcastin the Daily News, and this is your
first time listening, then welcome.
I am Steph Reed.
I'm the Director of the FlatRiver Community Library.
and I'm changing it up a little bitthis time to, to make things easier on
one of our staff members who was notsuper excited about doing this process.
(01:57):
poor Danielle.
I'm making this so hard for you.
I'm so sorry.
But we looked out today that, shehad a family member that was here
for, totally appropriate reasons.
so I figured we could pull themin together and that maybe that
might make it a little more fun.
So I'm going to let you introduce yourselfand stop talking about you should we start
pulling out the baby pictures now here?
Speaker 7 (02:16):
pictures now here?
Speaker (02:17):
I'm really not aiming to humiliate you.
I promise it just
Speaker 14 (02:20):
promise.
It just happens.
Speaker (02:21):
tell everyone who's listening and wondering why I'm so mean,
who you are and what you do here.
Speaker 8 (02:27):
Hi everyone.
I'm Danielle Wonder Jim.
I am the technician, servicespecialist here at the library.
Speaker (02:33):
and how long have you been here?
Speaker 8 (02:35):
I've been here for almost 27 years.
Yes.
Speaker 14 (02:37):
Yes,
Speaker (02:38):
which is incredible, but what's almost more incredible than that
is the fact that you are the third?
Speaker 7 (02:45):
Yep.
Long, longest standing.
Yep.
Third
Speaker (02:47):
so hopefully that's a good sign.
But yes, we have two employees herewho have actually been here longer
than 27 years we're happy you're stillhere despite how much I pick on you
Speaker 14 (02:55):
you also with us, today is Danielle's daughter.
Um, do you want to introduce yourself?
Speaker 16 (03:01):
I'm Megan Wonderjem.
I'm a student at theGreenville High School.
Okay.
Speaker (03:05):
Okay.
Um, and what is the super legitimatereason that you are here this morning?
Speaker 16 (03:08):
morning?
I'm job shadowing.
Okay, okay.
Speaker 14 (03:11):
Um,
Speaker (03:11):
because you, secretly dream at night about wandering the aisles of books
and taking, yeah, is that what it is?
Speaker 14 (03:20):
sure.
Speaker 16 (03:20):
I want to, you know, smell the dust on all the books.
You know what, we
Speaker (03:24):
work very hard to keep the dust off the books.
We do.
Speaker 16 (03:28):
Good.
That's great.
Speaker (03:29):
Yes, that's the goal.
Speaker 7 (03:32):
my gosh.
Speaker 14 (03:35):
Is
Speaker (03:35):
any other non allergy related reason that you wanted to
come here to do your job shadow?
Speaker 16 (03:41):
Nope, I just wanna observe.
Speaker (03:43):
Okay.
Wow, you are just as talkative as your
Speaker 16 (03:45):
Yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker (03:47):
you have any sort of insight as to what you'd like
To do when you're all grown up?
Speaker 16 (03:52):
Well, I'm looking at doing forensic science.
Speaker (03:55):
Oh yes, your mom was saying that, yes.
And we were talking about, honestly,I think a lot more people are wanting
to do that now, which is funnywhen you think about it because the
inclination to touch dead people, youwould think that would be not super
common, but It's growing in popularity.
You're not big, Danielle, you're not bigon the, the true crime stuff either, are
Speaker 7 (04:17):
I'm
Speaker 8 (04:17):
not, no.
Speaker (04:18):
I feel like we keep talking about that, every time we get a patron who
donates a stack of true crime materials,and I'm just like, yes, bring on the
serial killers, cause I'm weird too.
Danielle is like, oh, that's nice.
And I'm like, she's just like,please don't make me read it.
But apparently you're a littlebit more in the same vein.
Okay.
do you read true crime?
(04:39):
or do true, true crimedocumentaries or, or
Speaker 14 (04:42):
I watch a,
Speaker 16 (04:43):
I watch a lot of documentaries.
Okay.
In horror movies.
Okay.
But I mostly read like mystery books.
Speaker (04:48):
okay.
Okay.
That's fair.
You're gonna have learn to get,like, immersed in some of the
reading side of things for that,
Speaker 14 (04:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker (04:57):
you know, forensic science looks like a lot more fun
in the documentaries I think thanit will actually turn out to be.
A lot of.
A lot of chemistry and stuff.
Are you a science person?
Speaker 16 (05:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (05:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker (05:08):
give me something more here!
Speaker 7 (05:10):
here!
You still
Speaker 14 (05:10):
I don't
Speaker 16 (05:11):
got more!
Speaker (05:12):
just picking on you.
so do you have any, true crime stuffthat you've come across that was
like, especially intriguing to you?
Or are there specific aspects ofit that, you find more interesting.
Speaker 16 (05:21):
Not necessarily, no.
I just enjoy it all.
Speaker 9 (05:23):
I'm
Speaker (05:24):
going to breathe
Speaker 16 (05:25):
I am really sorry.
Speaker (05:26):
it's okay.
I'm just teasing, I promise.
what initially drew you to the conceptof the forensic science stuff then?
And I will give the caveat here too,since you are job shadowing, that there is
literally nothing about librarianship thathas anything to do with forensic science
other than occasionally being a littlebit gross in ways that I won't go into
Speaker 14 (05:46):
detail,
Speaker 7 (05:46):
detail.
Speaker 16 (05:47):
I don't know.
I grew up, like my dad really enjoyshorror movies, so I grew up watching
a lot of horror movies with him.
I just enjoy the horror movies andwatching 'em, and I wanna learn more about
Speaker 9 (05:56):
them.
And
Speaker 16 (05:58):
the death side of it, Okay.
Like, I, I really wanna figure out likehow people like the cause of their death.
Speaker (06:04):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 16 (06:05):
And get into that.
Okay.
Speaker (06:06):
Okay.
Speaker 10 (06:07):
into
Speaker 16 (06:07):
do want to dissect the dead bodies as well.
Speaker (06:10):
then.
Just for fun or like foractual professional reasons?
Should we be
Speaker 16 (06:14):
concerned?
No, no, no, no.
This is all I'm all good.
It's for professional reasons.
Speaker 14 (06:19):
Okay.
Speaker (06:19):
You know this is all being recorded,
Speaker 16 (06:21):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker (06:22):
this, this
Speaker 16 (06:23):
all good.
Speaker (06:23):
this can be used against you in a court of law.
Oh my
Speaker 14 (06:26):
law.
Oh
Speaker (06:27):
Okay.
But I mean I get theinterest in it definitely.
Yes.
I'll be interested to see in the next fewyears how that evolves and translates.
Because forensic science, yeah, itis a tricky role to get into from
what I understand, because it isgetting really big and popular.
I think we talked a little bitabout like, like does that translate
into mortuary science as well?
(06:47):
Like a fallback, like you canalways touch dead people but in
a different capacity I suppose?
Yeah.
Okay.
you got to have dreams, but then you'vegot to have practical aspirations too.
Absolutely.
Um, so clearly you're followingin mom's footsteps as well.
Um, not really.
so Danielle, what got you into thisposition and why do you think after
(07:08):
27 years you are still going strong?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Got
Speaker 8 (07:13):
into this position was In high school, we had to take one
of those career tests to see whatyour best suitable career would be.
And the top one waslibrarian and accounting.
So I'm like, Ooh, be something
Speaker (07:27):
And you do both!
Speaker 8 (07:29):
do both.
Speaker 15 (07:29):
both!
Speaker 8 (07:29):
I had a job opening up for a page assistant here when I was a junior.
I think it was a senior.
I think I was a page for Eightmonths, and then after, shortly
after I graduated, they asked me ifI wanted to bump up to circulation.
You
Speaker (07:46):
And you did circulation
Speaker 8 (07:47):
I did,
Speaker (07:48):
a long time.
Speaker 8 (07:49):
A very long time.
Speaker 7 (07:50):
Yup, yup.
Speaker 14 (07:51):
reached
Speaker (07:51):
point where you were like, can I stop being around
people as much for a little while?
Yeah.
I am so, so throwing youunder the bus on this
Speaker 8 (08:01):
But no, I will, I, you
Speaker 7 (08:03):
know
Speaker (08:03):
you know what?
I, I will acknowledge too that like Iwas even more immersed in the people
side at the beginning of my career.
Mine was youth servicesfor, for years as well.
And with youth services, it's likeyou are peopling hard all day long.
working with families, workingwith kids, jumping around
and being very performative.
I get that side of things, but COVIDhonestly, I think it changed a lot of our
(08:25):
perceptions of how those interactions workbecause people's behaviors and people's
attitudes really changed because of that.
so in a manner of speaking,becoming a director was me
stepping away from peopling too.
I'm not judging you.
I'm, I'm encouraging you.
so what do you do now?
Speaker 8 (08:42):
I am a technician services, specialist.
Speaker (08:46):
technical services specialist, yep.
Speaker 8 (08:48):
And I go from anywhere.
Speaker (08:50):
that?
Speaker 8 (08:52):
It deals with creating order records to processing books
or material, and then getting it allready to get ready out to the public.
Speaker (09:03):
public.
Uh huh.
So essentially, for the business of whatpeople typically think of as a library,
which is, you know, circulating all ofthose books and all those other materials,
you are the most important person here.
I am.
Because if not for you, they wouldn'thave that stuff to check out,
Speaker 7 (09:18):
they
Speaker (09:19):
they would be really grumpy about it.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
they would.
Speaker (09:22):
Um, we have some hardcore people who they know the schedule of
when they can expect this to come out,and if something was released the day
before and it's not on the floor yet,they're like, tick tock, what's happening
Speaker 8 (09:32):
Right.
Speaker 14 (09:32):
but
Speaker (09:33):
you are fantastic at that, and it's a very routine, methodical kind
of job that requires a lot of abilityto focus on that methodical work.
And you rock at
Speaker 8 (09:45):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 14 (09:46):
it.
Speaker (09:47):
gonna try to make the rest of this me being really nice to you.
That's gonna be my goal.
Speaker 14 (09:52):
Okay.
Speaker (09:53):
Sincerely nice, I promise.
But like, I'm gonna stop doing thatthing that I was doing before, I promise.
So now I'm just gonna bemean to Megan instead.
Um, what's weird is I feel like I knowmore than I arguably should about you
at this point because, Danielle isa very friendly, very open person.
and she loves her kids.
So, she talks about you andyour sister very fondly.
(10:16):
are you a reader?
Speaker 16 (10:17):
see.
Okay.
Speaker (10:19):
Okay.
do you ever come here unless your momforces you to do it or you're trying
to get out of school for the day?
No.
Fair enough, fair enough.
Did you do it more when you were a kid?
Yeah.
Okay, that's fair.
in what capacity were youhere when you were younger?
Do you remember?
Did you ever do programstuff when you were younger?
Like
Speaker 8 (10:37):
We, um, we, when we had the story time, like on Monday evenings, I
used to bring her and, uh, some of mycousins, little ones, here with them to
Speaker (10:48):
I'm sure you don't remember.
Nope.
Yeah, that makes sense.
we bring our kids to story timehoping it has any effect on them, and
clearly, clearly it does, because yearslater, we don't remember doing it.
it's like, subtle, yeah.
I'm gonna find somethingto make you talk about.
What do you want to talk about?
Speaker 16 (11:06):
I have no idea.
Speaker (11:07):
Okay.
So here's what we're going to do.
I am going to transition into myguest for this week and then we're
going to take a couple minutes andwe're going to figure out how I can
get the Wonder Gem family to give memore than one word answers to things.
That's my goal.
it's Friday.
we're almost there atthe end of this week.
It's almost summer.
(11:29):
I'm going to get aconversation out of you people.
Okay.
All right.
So on that note,
my guest this week is someone thatI always love running into because,
I am so grateful for what herorganization does for our community.
it's a very difficult, very emotionallydraining, role that organization fills.
(11:50):
in the community, but I'm really gladthat we have, hardworking people who have
dedicated themselves to that organization.
the organization name is RAVE, whichstands for Relief After Violent Encounter.
And our guest this week is theiroutreach coordinator, Alexis Thain.
Stef (12:09):
it's part of being mom.
Like you don't, you don't sleep anymore.
Like even when they get a littlebit older, there's a period of
every night basically where you'rejust like, okay, it's two o'clock
in the morning and I'm, I'm awake.
I read somewhere that there were sortof pre industrial cultures that it was
built into their sleeping like culture.
they would go to bed with, withthe sundown, like relatively early.
(12:32):
And then there would be a point during thenight where they would be awake, say from
like one o'clock in the morning to likefour o'clock in the morning or something.
And then they would goback to bed afterwards.
But There would be a night wakeand this is like, I need to
actually see if this is true.
It's, it's really bad librarianing ofme to be passing on this information
without validating my sources.
So shame on me.
(12:53):
I should know
Alexis (12:54):
You should research it after the fire
Stef (12:55):
after the fire is gone.
Right.
Yeah.
And the irony here is that I hardcorechastised Cassie last, last episode
about, you know, properly researchingand now karma is coming back to get me.
Alexis (13:08):
I'll let her know afterwards.
Stef (13:10):
should.
You should turn me in and, I shouldbe punished for it, certainly.
Okay.
This is a good place to start.
because today's topic is,is so, you know, light and,
Alexis (13:20):
looky,
Stef (13:20):
my guest this week, is someone who was nice enough to let me just
sort of like throw this concept ather when I approached her about it
last week, I gave her very little leadtime, like, like, let's just do this.
And, um, and thankfully she wasdown for it, I will let her go
ahead and introduce herself.
so if you could give us your name, wherewe would know you from, where we would
(13:41):
see you on an average day and sort ofwhat a, what a day for you looks like.
Alexis (13:44):
Yeah.
So, uh, my Thain, and I'm theVolunteer and Outreach Coordinator
for RAVE, or our longer name isRelief After Violent Encounter, and
we serve Ionia Montcombe Counties.
on a daily basis, I'm Pretty much in theoffice, supervising volunteers, reaching
out to the community to see where I cando, um, more presentations, hand out more
(14:08):
of our information, do things like this.
So thank you for letting mecome on the podcast today.
And yeah, pretty much just tryingto get our information out there
to let survivors in our communityknow that we are available 24 7.
Stef (14:21):
So you spend a lot of time peopling,
Alexis (14:23):
Yes.
A lot of peopling.
Stef (14:24):
do you ever hit a wall where you're just like, I've peopled too much
today, I need to curl into a ball andlisten to light jazz and just chill?
Like, does the, do youfind that happens too much?
Oh,
Alexis (14:36):
absolutely.
Um, usually I'll try to take aday and I'll just put my music on.
Most of the time it willbe Taylor Swift though.
I'm a
Stef (14:43):
Yes, yes, thank you.
Alexis (14:45):
so
Stef (14:46):
get so much grief about that for my staff.
Like, I'm not likeobsessed with Taylor Swift.
I just, I just enjoy her
Alexis (14:55):
Oh, I do too.
Stef (14:56):
It's like a lifestyle now.
it's what, you know, Beyoncewas like 10 years ago.
People just were like, it was a culture.
Alexis (15:04):
culture.
It's just when I listen to hermusic, I have to keep going.
So it's not like I can switch over right
Stef (15:09):
it just, yeah, it's, it is an immersive experience.
Certainly.
Alexis (15:13):
is.
She's so storytelling in her musicthat I have to like dig into it and
read her lyrics and see what's going on
Stef (15:18):
Absolutely.
before I, you know, was a grownup and got a grown up job, I, I
wrote fiction for a long time.
I do it occasionally now,but I got my first master's
degree in, in fiction writing.
I am always drawn to music that hasthat sort of narrative component to it.
So all of my favorite songs are ones
That have storytelling in them.
(15:40):
she's a great example of them.
Most of them are just, are weird.
I'm trying to think.
the one that always comes tomind is Shoot, what's it called?
it's the one that Reba McEntire,Yeah, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do 90's
Alexis (15:51):
country.
That's
Stef (15:52):
gonna happen.
The night the lights went out in Georgia.
I love that song.
Alexis (15:56):
Classic.
Stef (15:58):
Although this is a super niche like complaint here, but
I've been holding it in for years.
So the sister, like, Kills his wife, butthen she just lets him go down for murder.
Like what is that?
Alexis (16:11):
It's, it's an experience
Stef (16:13):
It's so confusing like she did it to Avenge him, but then
she just yeah I want to meet thiswoman and get some answers out of
Alexis (16:21):
Need the run down.
Stef (16:22):
do yeah
Alexis (16:23):
board was like the red pins to see like where like where the
crime is taking place and what's
Stef (16:28):
Exactly, yeah, yeah.
Oh, what a, yeah.
But
Alexis (16:33):
listening to music is my kind of self care.
So, peopling too much, as you would say,I just kind of take a moment, just relax,
turn some music on, and I'm good to go.
Stef (16:43):
how long have you been in this area?
Did you grow up locally?
Alexis (16:46):
So, I'm actually from the west side, so I grew up in Holland.
So, came over here, and then I,
Stef (16:52):
pretty, we're pretty west.
Like, I don't think I've ever heardanybody say, I'm from the west side, while
Alexis (16:58):
always forget about it.
Cause I, so I went tocollege in Mount Pleasant.
So just like trying to, areyou, are you as a Chippewa too?
Stef (17:07):
I, yeah, that's where I got my undergrad.
Yep.
Yep.
Alexis (17:09):
Fire up chips.
Look at that.
Learning new
Stef (17:12):
I feel like there's a lot of chips
Alexis (17:14):
I think so.
Stef (17:15):
we're that, we're just so close to
Alexis (17:17):
I think so.
Ionia is still like an hour, hour anda half away from Holland, so sometimes
I don't think about the west sideof it, but obviously went to college
up at CMU, Fire Up Chips again, um,
Stef (17:28):
correctly.
Exactly,
Alexis (17:30):
exactly, it's almost like Bloody Mary for some
Stef (17:32):
Mary for some reason.
Um,
Alexis (17:35):
three times, I worked at
Rise advocacy that's up there and theydo Isabella, Claire, and Gracia counties.
So it's another, I also did myInternship up there, for social work.
So.
Um, I got my undergraduatein social work and minored in
American Sign Language as well, so.
And then after a while, just kindof felt like migrating back to
(17:56):
the west side, so came down hereand I found this position, I'm
Stef (18:01):
ASL game these days?
Alexis (18:03):
not gonna lie, it's a little rusty.
I definitely still watch somevideos to try to keep up on it.
I would definitely loveto use it more often.
Patricia, our sexual assaultadvocate, we have, she also mitered
in ASL, so sometimes we try to
Stef (18:17):
do it around the office
Alexis (18:18):
it's, it's also funny because like her office is right across from
mine, so one day we just gotta bejust talking to each other in ASL.
Stef (18:25):
that's, yeah.
I was curious what the path was.
Because obviously this is somethingthat you've made, a career
path from, from fairly early.
did you go into school knowing thatthis was going to be sort of your focus?
Yeah.
Alexis (18:39):
Are you thinking about like college level or talk about like any,
Stef (18:42):
Did you go into kindergarten knowing that you would be
Alexis (18:45):
in advocate for, um, definitely no.
Honestly, my first career choicewhen I was in elementary school,
I wanted to be a history teacher.
Love history, still love history.
Stef (18:55):
Ditto, yeah,
Alexis (18:56):
just went to Europe for a trip with my husband and
I had the most amazing time.
Cause.
I was big into the castlesand learning about the history
and things like that, so,
Stef (19:05):
we went
Alexis (19:07):
to London, so we did all the castles in that area, and
then we made a trip to Amsterdamas well and did all that stuff.
Didn't make it to the Anne FrankHouse, but did a lot of other,
like, history things over there,but it was a wonderful time.
Highly recommend for anybody.
Stef (19:22):
Yeah, if you've got a few thousand dollars just sittin
around, then yeah, definitely.
Alexis (19:26):
Definitely was a trip we saved for
Stef (19:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Alexis (19:30):
and then I got invariant like my middle school slash high school era.
very much gotten to the crime shows.
So I was like, like law and order,special victims unit, just general
law and order, CSI, all that.
And I was convinced I wasgoing to be a forensic person.
And then I realized there's a lot ofscience and math that goes into that.
And I'm, and I am not goodat that, those subjects.
(19:52):
So jumped that off that ship.
and then I just kind offigured out that social work
Like you can do so muchwith a social work degree.
the careers that I've chosen thatI've wanted to do in some way,
it kind of helps people and I'veloved volunteering in some aspect.
And then when it came into my juniorslash senior year of college, I
When it's that time to sign upfor internships, I saw RISE, I was
(20:15):
like, I kind of want to do that.
So I signed up for it and here I am.
Stef (20:20):
It's interesting that the community of support for, sexual
and partner violence and whatnot.
They love their acronymsis what it sounds like.
They love to abbreviate thingsand turn them into new words.
Alexis (20:31):
absolutely.
Honestly, if you look up more of them,I mean, I know we have Y's somewhere.
So, when I used to work at RISE, peoplewould get us confused with Y's with a W.
Um, got Rave, got Cove, it'sjust If you look up, there's
just a bunch of different ones,
Stef (20:46):
what kind of drove you into working in the capacity that you do?
Do you spend any time one on onewith people who have experienced
these things or do you spend moretime working with the community?
Alexis (20:57):
I definitely do a lot more of the community side, but I definitely fill into
shelter if we ever have a need for it.
If RSAs have been overworkedand they need a break.
sometimes I'll be asked to justkind of pop in and work for a
couple of hours in the shelter.
So I will definitely meet with some of theclients in there while they're in there.
my office is, it's right next to shelter.
So I do the mail as well.
(21:18):
So I can walk in and I'll drop mail offand I'll see a client every so often.
So definitely more the communityside, but I do still get to
interact with clients every so often
Stef (21:27):
Could you give sort of the quick overview of what you all are involved in?
Yeah, my little elevator pitch.
Yeah, there we go.
Yeah, so Relief High FrontLine Encounter, we are a 24 7,
Alexis (21:40):
Emergency shelter and crisis line for, survivors of
domestic or sexual violence.
we service men, women, and children,so anybody and everybody who pretty
much calls our crisis line, we canhelp them in some sort of capacity.
our emergency shelter, mainlyhouses women and children.
Um, but For men, they are more thanwelcome to call us and we still have other
(22:01):
ways we're able to hotel them or motelthem and figure out what we can do to
help them escape their situation as well.
not a lot of people understandthat males can be, victims as well.
So we always emphasize that.
They can always call us as welland we can figure something out.
we also provide different typesof counseling for survivors.
And they're all free and confidential.
(22:22):
don't require any insurance.
or any kind of payments of anything.
all those counselings are fora DV and SA as well, domestic
violence and sexual assault.
And we also have a youth advocate thatdoes the children's advocacy part of it.
her name is Abby.
She's wonderful.
And she does kiddos betweenthe ages of 4 and 17.
(22:43):
children who are in shelter, so she'sable to work with them, provide that kind
of advocacy and support in any capacity.
And then she also works withanybody or a parent who calls in
saying that their children mighthave gone through or witnessed a,
um, domestic violence incident.
And she could work with them as well.
And our sexual assault advocate,Patricia, she could do kiddos for sexual
(23:05):
assault for the same age range andthen we also have our legal advocate.
what she does is she can do,um, PPOs, which are personal
protection orders for those whomay not know that kind of acronym.
Again, we love our acronyms sometimes.
Um,
Stef (23:19):
is, is set by the, yeah, what people would previously have
known as a restraining order.
Alexis (23:24):
exactly.
she's able to help them with that process,sit down with them, talk it through with
them, And then sit with them in court,especially if they are going through a
trial and they're, um, facing their abuserfor the first time since They have been
arrested, then she's able to providethat support and walking through the
process, make sure they're comfortableand provide any kind of support or
advocacy they need at that point as well.
(23:46):
we also have our emergency response,advocate, and her name is Donna, and
she coordinates with any local policedepartments might call the shelter
requesting an advocate to respond to thescene of a domestic or sexual assault that
has taken place, and shewill respond to one of those.
biggest thing is just making sure thatthe perpetrator has been arrested, and
(24:06):
then she's able to coordinate unless thepolice are able to transport the client
to a hospital or another safe location,then she's able to provide the advocacy.
So she pretty much is able to followthe client to wherever they need to,
whether that's the hospital or, shelter.
Stef (24:20):
Could you explain what the importance is for having the, uh,
perpetrator be absent when the,
Alexis (24:26):
mainly it's just a big safety thing, especially if
they have fleed the police.
most of the time the police will stillbe there, but just for an extra safety
concern, we don't know if there's anyweapons involved I think she also has
started to do it where they go out topairs of two, to the scene so that there's
always another person there with them
Stef (24:45):
Yeah.
that's safety for everyone too,because would imagine that in those
situations, you run the risk of theadvocate being a target the perpetrator
would see them as Someone who istrying to intervene in a situation
where they want to regain control.
Alexis (24:58):
statistically, that, time in the relationship when they're trying
to leave is the most dangerous time
So definitely trying to treadcarefully and figure out the best
ways to handle that scenario as well.
Stef (25:10):
that is one of those really scary statistics, if you have not experienced
anything like this, or you don'trealize that you know somebody who's
experienced one of these scenarios,um, you may not be familiar with, that
tendency to escalate in those situations.
I won't claim to be an expert here.
but, my understanding is that withsexual assault and with domestic
(25:34):
abuse, it's not about emotion.
It's not about rage.
It's about power andcontrol in those situations.
there is a common misunderstanding that,abusers, that they lose control, that
they do this because their rage gets outof hand or because they're drunk or, or
whatever, but it's a loss of control.
in fact, it's exactly theopposite in those situations.
Alexis (25:58):
There's definitely a lot that goes into Factor about it.
The biggest thing, like you said,power and control, if you just Google
the power and control wheel, that's abig resource that we use for clients,
especially if they're going throughcounseling or if they're coming to
shelter for, for the first time.
We like to show them thepower and control wheel
Stef (26:15):
And I'll add that to our
Alexis (26:16):
our website.
Yeah.
Stef (26:17):
it out if you're interested.
Alexis (26:19):
absolutely, and it's a great resource to see, what people might
call the red flags in a relationship,like using the children against them,
or, pretty much like threateningto harm the children in any way
if the survivor is trying to leavethe relationship at some point.
That can be a big factoras why they're not leaving.
or using intimidation,threatening them somehow.
the whole wheel describes a lot of aspectsthat can go into it, because in the middle
(26:42):
of everything, it's that power control.
They want some way that they can holdtheir power over the survivor and
control them in any aspect of their life
Stef (26:52):
one of the easiest ways to be able to, locate the dissonance
between how they behave with theperson they are abusing and how they,
behave under other circumstances.
Look how these people behave.
When they're at work, look how thesepeople behave in front of their friends
or anyone else that they are not, youknow, trying to, to put in that position.
(27:12):
It's amazing how an abuser, howthey can go from zero to 60 and back
again, just because they are suddenlybeing overheard by someone that
they don't want to overhear them.
You think these people don't have control.
Watch them suddenly go from.
seeming enraged to just uttercalm or, you know, joking around.
(27:33):
And that's all you needto know right there.
Alexis (27:36):
Absolutely.
you can obviously have someonewho is calm, cool, and collected,
sometimes in the office area andthen something can just kind of set
them off and you just never knowwhat's going to happen sometimes.
Stef (27:47):
that lack of, of predictability is, I think, part of what makes dealing
with those individuals so terrifying.
But I think it's also a big part of whyso many individuals will find themselves,
you know, getting back in the cycle withsomeone and not, getting out of that
situation, getting into a safe placebecause when you see someone turn that
(28:10):
switch off again, it's so easy to tellyourself, well this, that wasn't them.
Alexis (28:15):
Yeah.
Stef (28:16):
Um, like this, this is who they really are.
they just lost control for a minute or
Alexis (28:21):
Absolutely.
And sometimes that self-blamingcan kind of come in too, where
it's, it was my fault that Right.
He set himself off or things like that.
And
Stef (28:28):
If I didn't do this, then it
Alexis (28:30):
Exactly.
So we definitely try to let them knowthat it wasn't their fault and that we
believe them and again, that's wherewe'll show 'em the power control.
Like this is the aspects that youmight have seen and that is not you.
It's.
They're rooted in this power andcontrol aspect, and they, it's just,
it's hard for them to break that cycle.
you just mentioned that they're unableto leave, and they get back in that
(28:51):
cycle, and statistically, for thewomen's side of it, it takes them
statistically about seven times beforethey're able to leave that relationship.
we always do emphasize with clients that,Mental and emotional abuse are forms of
abuse because not everybody knows that.
Stef (29:09):
Right.
Um, and
Alexis (29:10):
so especially the whole gaslighting aspect.
Um, I feel like that's a word that's,
Stef (29:15):
It gets thrown around a lot,
Alexis (29:16):
absolutely.
And I feel like some people don't knowthe concept of what gaslighting is.
when we have callers thatexplain their situation to us
and sometimes they're like, well,he's not putting his hands on me.
But he's doing this, this, and thisin a mental or emotional aspect.
We always tell them thatthat is a form of abuse.
You're getting put down.
mentally and emotionally, you'rebeing torn down in some form.
(29:37):
And that is a form of abuse.
So, um,
Stef (29:40):
in those situations, the person who is doing this, they're
doing it with the purposeful intentof trying to make you feel like
Alexis (29:52):
you
Stef (29:53):
to submit to them in some way.
when it's the emotional abuse ofmaking you feel bad about yourself,
they are specifically trying toput you under a form of control.
So, could you explain whatgaslighting actually is?
Alexis (30:07):
Yeah.
what I've seen is just any kind oflanguage that can make the other
person feel like they're going crazyor that they're not being believed
or, what they believe is not true
Stef (30:18):
the Wikipedia definition of it, yes, because, you know, we're
aiming for professionalism here.
It is a colloquialism loosely definedas manipulating someone into questioning
their own perception of reality.
the purpose of it is a reallyimportant aspect of it.
And I think this is why it gets misuseda lot it's not disagreeing with you.
It's not, it's not having a differenceof opinion about something happened.
(30:41):
That's not gaslighting.
What gaslighting is, is when theperson is intentionally trying
to make you think that something.
that happened, didn't happen, or Thatyour perception is factually incorrect
in order to put you off balanceand to, to make you question like,
(31:04):
well, they wouldn't say this to meif they didn't genuinely believe it.
So it makes, you know, it puts youin a position where you feel like you
might have to actually consider theirpoint of view that they're coming
at this from a genuine perspectivewhen really in those situations
They know what they're saying
Alexis (31:21):
Oh, absolutely.
And it
Stef (31:23):
to write it, rewrite the
Alexis (31:24):
absolutely.
And it comes with that intent behind it isthat they know that they can mentally and
emotionally hurt this person in some way.
So, um, That's why I think it's importantto kind of highlight that term because
I feel like sometimes people just throwit around, especially on social media.
I feel like
Stef (31:40):
Yes, it's very buzzy.
Yes, I feel like,
Alexis (31:42):
I feel like definitely on TikTok, I've that term thrown around so much where
it's just, oh, this person gaslit me.
trying to show what that definitionis can help bring some kind
of, clarity to survivors who.
are trying to figure out andnavigate what is going on in the
relationship and understanding andknowing that that is a form of abuse.
(32:03):
So.
Stef (32:04):
Right.
that really contributes to,struggling with trying to identify
what's happening to you too.
the reason that, that these areconversations that are so difficult
and so many individuals findthemselves unable to identify it or,
inclined towards trying to, to playit down, dismiss it, is because we
(32:25):
don't talk about this culturally.
we don't have honest conversations about,these topics and we don't generally
create open spaces to make peoplefeel safe having these conversations.
Alexis (32:38):
Absolutely.
Stef (32:39):
We victim blame a lot.
If we even acknowledge thatsomething is happening.
Alexis (32:44):
Especially, I think I've seen it more, especially
with the sexual assault aspect
Stef (32:49):
Oh certainly.
Yeah.
Especially.
Yeah.
Especially.
Alexis (32:51):
after the whole Me Too movement came out and, Survivors coming in years
after the sexual assaults taken place.
And you just see so many peoplecoming for the survivors and saying,
why didn't you come forward sooner?
Why didn't you do this?
And, oh, they're just lookingfor attention where it's just,
Stef (33:10):
whole
Alexis (33:11):
blaming culture I feel like it's become more prominent
since the mean two movement.
Because,
Stef (33:15):
It's a backlash,
Alexis (33:16):
exactly.
And but more survivors feel morecomfortable now to come forward
because they can see that,
Stef (33:22):
their,
Alexis (33:22):
perpetrator can be convicted in some form and then you just see so
much backlash because it's been yearsand people are just coming from them
because they took so long, but theydon't understand the trauma aspect of it
Stef (33:36):
Oh yeah.
Alexis (33:37):
how terrifying it can be to come forward and say that this happened
to me because sexual assault It's verytraumatic and the process of doing
the SANE exam, the Sexual AssaultNurse Examiner's Kit, that can be very
traumatic as well as in depth and howlong it takes sometimes for survivors.
The whole process can be difficult totalk to, especially to a law enforcement
(34:01):
officer, not knowing if they're goingto take you seriously or if they're
going to blame you for something.
that's why I always emphasizethat we believe you, um, come
to us and we can support you
We have people that can providethat support and resources because
you should, feel believed and,
Stef (34:17):
the incidence of, um, false reporting on these
things are all but negligible.
at the end of the day, What is the harm?
What could possibly prevent you fromchoosing to believe someone who has
chosen to confide in you about this?
and beyond that when we haveconversations with people we care about
and we know that they've been hurtin this way, we feel powerless too.
(34:39):
we want to, you know, fixthe situation in some way.
sometimes we end up doing thingsthat are more detrimental because.
Alexis (34:48):
it's
Stef (34:49):
hard for us to have that inside perspective maybe you see that the
easiest way out of this is literallyout, but that might not necessarily
be the full picture for the personwho's actually experiencing it.
There's a lot of complexities to it.
Alexis (35:04):
Oh, absolutely.
I would say anybody who has somebodythat has been assaulted in some capacity,
just emphasizing that you believethem and you can provide support or
offer up, RAVE as a resource and wecan take it from there if you don't
know how to handle that situation.
Stef (35:21):
the worst that's going to happen is that, someone will listen to you.
something to be aware of, because ifyou are not sure in those situations,
what you're experiencing having someoneelse offer you perspective, someone
who has seen this enough and who hasrecognized the signs enough to be
able to sort of talk you through it.
there's no downside to that.
I wish it was a conversation that wewere having more with younger people
(35:43):
I looked up a handful of differentstatistics beforehand, almost half
of all women and men in the U.
S.
have experienced, this is not specificallydomestic abuse, it's the term,
psychological aggression by an intimatepartner, which is a broader framework.
It's not necessarily physicalviolence, It falls into that purview
of abuse and it speaks a lot to,to how much this is happening
Alexis (36:05):
Yes.
Stef (36:06):
and, and how much, we're not necessarily talking about it.
there is a stigma that it'splaced upon men that, You have
to react in a certain way.
first of all, it can't happen to you.
Um, and second of all, if itdoes happen to you, you're,
Alexis (36:21):
You're not
Stef (36:22):
yeah, yeah, your masculinity
Alexis (36:23):
Your masculinity
Stef (36:24):
requires that you, um, ignore this is happening which
is just, it's just nonsense.
we can all emotionally beaffected by a partner in this way.
the other aspect of it that for me reallyhits home is that, the group that is
most likely to be affected by intimatepartner violence is women 18 to 34.
it's not necessarily that those womenare more susceptible, you're more likely
(36:47):
I supposed to be in a, a non committedrelationship to be dating at that age.
it goes back to that.
We just don't have these conversations.
And so if this isn't a conversationthat's happening in your household
when you're growing up, And itdoesn't even necessarily have to be
specifically about, partner abuse.
It can be about personal boundaries.
(37:08):
It can be about, justrelationships in general and
how a partner should treat you.
when I was in college whenthe Twilight books came out.
Oh Those okay.
I probably should take out the sound thatI just made but I mean that is a real
That is a an honest reaction for me aboutthose books I feel like those books set
back the partner abuse conversation so far
Alexis (37:32):
I mean, did I enjoy reading those
Stef (37:33):
Sure, yeah, they're they're very they're they're they're Um, you
know, they're popcorny, certainly
But the, first of all,Edward watches her sleep.
Alexis (37:42):
Yeah.
That one
Stef (37:43):
it's not romantic.
It's disturbing.
he bosses her around at onepoint he actually kidnaps her
and puts her under house arrestbasically because he knows better.
and he isolates her a lot.
And Also, very importantthing to note, he's not 17.
Alexis (38:01):
Nope.
Stef (38:02):
He is like a hundred.
Alexis (38:04):
A hundred.
Stef (38:05):
And like, I know that this sounds like a silly way to approach this
topic, I don't think Stephanie Meyerintended to it, but she wrote a textbook
version of what a young partner abusesituation looks like and then wrote it
as, as though it was super romantic.
Alexis (38:22):
absolutely, and I mean, you obviously don't think about it
then, but like as you get older, yourealize that, wow, it's just crazy
to think back to it and just noticingthose signs and realizing that it
was not the greatest relationship
Stef (38:36):
relationship.
Yeah.
And, and the precedents that it setfor that generation of, of young women
who were sort of looking for theirown Edward and may have found the,
the worst possible version of that.
we tend to put into sort of, genderroles, even like parents will treat.
young girls and young boys differently.
(38:57):
and they very subtly sort of give themclues how to behave and they don't
necessarily have those open conversations.
this was very much my own experiencewhen I was young, my whole experience of
what relationships were supposed to looklike other than, my parents, which no one
really views their, their parents as aromantic foil, was Like romantic comedies
(39:17):
and movie love, that sort of thing.
when I was 18, I ended up in arelationship with someone who was 13 years
older than me, not realizing, you alwayshave to be careful with age gaps because
that's a pretty big red flag in terms ofpower dynamics, I didn't know when I was
18 that there were aspects that I neededto, you know, be on the lookout for.
(39:40):
and the situation I found myself in thatwas not physical for a very long time.
so many people find themselves insituations where they are being
emotionally abused in some way and theydon't recognize it because they just think
that it's a very emotional relationship.
I'm with a really emotional person.
or I'm with a person who's depressedand like they can't help it.
(40:03):
I look back on, on so many of thethings that happened, when I was in
that relationship and I, as an adult,I can look back and cringe and think,
oh, how did I not see that at the time?
when you're young, when you don't have amodel, red flags are really hard to see.
Yeah.
If someone is making you feel bad aboutyourself, if they have emotional outbursts
(40:23):
and then say, you know, I did this becauseyou did this, if you hadn't behaved like
this, then it wouldn't have been an issue.
trying to reform you into what they,expect you to be and, trying to push
you to do things you don't want to.
Cause so often with sexual assaults,the misconception is that it's
somebody that you don't really know.
So often it comes from partners.
Alexis (40:44):
coercion aspect of it
Stef (40:46):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Alexis (40:47):
a big part of it too.
Stef (40:49):
Yeah.
You can, and you can absolutelybe, sexually assaulted by a
partner because even with apartner consent is always expected.
Like you, you don't give up that consentjust because you're with someone.
Alexis (41:00):
absolutely.
Stef (41:01):
Um, and that's a really important thing that I feel
like, young people should be madeaware of on both sides of it.
Alexis (41:07):
Oh, absolutely.
You,
Stef (41:08):
not to throw into the gender stereotypes, but as, a young man, If
you're in a relationship with a partner,they have not told you that you have, free
license to behave however you want to,just because you're in a relationship.
my experience was that over time,because that precedent was set for
so long, it did end up eventuallyescalating to physical violence.
(41:29):
Um, and at that point I was so welltrained and I had pushed so many
friends away because I didn't understandwhat's happening and I felt trapped
and it was just easier to push peopleaway and not let them know what was
happening to me because I didn't feellike I could have that conversation.
So when it reached the point whereit did become physical, and I had to
(41:50):
literally start hiding bruises andwhatnot, at that point I was so far gone.
I didn't really knowhow to protect myself.
and in my situation, the onlyway I managed to get away from.
this person was to literallymove out of the state.
So I didn't have to see them anymore.
the support system was not there.
It's not that I didn't have friends.
It's not that I didn't havepeople who cared about me.
(42:12):
It's just, they didn't know exactlywhat to do in that situation.
I offer this mostly becausepersonally, I look back and I wish
Alexis (42:21):
that
Stef (42:21):
there had been a mechanism socially to have these conversations more openly.
I wish they had beenconversations when I was younger.
so that I felt like I couldspeak up in those situations.
I'm a big advocate for having thoseopen conversations with young people.
around or before the age they startgetting into relationships because
(42:44):
this can even happen with teenagers.
Oh,
Alexis (42:46):
teenagers.
Oh, absolutely.
first of all, for sharing your story.
with us and everybody who's listening,going on the topic of teaching them young
about the signs and things like that.
our youth advocate tries togo into the schools and teach
about, the power control wheel.
There's actually a team power andcontrol wheel that's out there as
Stef (43:03):
well.
Alexis (43:04):
especially the high school age because definitely during that time.
Stef (43:07):
They're starting to have relationships.
They're exploring what it looks like.
Yep.
Alexis (43:11):
so showing them the red flags of relationship, but then also what
a healthy relationship looks like.
that you should feel loved andcherished and you shouldn't fear for
your safety and things like that.
So, we definitely show themthe green flags of what,
Stef (43:26):
what, the
Alexis (43:27):
two sides of it.
we would definitely love to get intomore school systems and show, More
kids and young adults what thosekind of relationships looks like so
Starting small and then obviouslyhere at flat river great resource.
we're doing the body safety Probablywe'll be done by the time this comes out.
Consent is key,
Stef (43:45):
yes, my kids tell me all the time that they're like, I
don't want to be hugged right now.
And I think it's because we've had thatconversation enough at home that they
know that that's all they have to say.
And I'll back off.
we all have the right tohave our own physical space
Alexis (44:01):
Absolutely.
Stef (44:02):
tickling.
That's an important one.
that's a hell that I die on.
Do not tickle childrenunless they say it's okay.
I know.
Yeah, it seems like you'rejust joking around but it is
Alexis (44:13):
It's their personal space, and that's a bound, that's a boundary that
you're kind of crossing in an aspect,
Right,
Stef (44:18):
kids should be, they have to do their homework and they have to
brush their teeth, but they should beallowed to say no about stuff like this.
Absolutely.
Parenting 101.
Right.
with the older kids, when you'retalking about relationships, I
love that you all go into schoolsto have these conversations.
I think what would be reallyvaluable too is to try to educate
more parents about having, right?
(44:38):
Because It's even hard to have theseconversations in a school setting, because
when you're surrounded by your classmates,you're, especially at that age, it's an
uncomfortable topic, and you're probably,you're going to try to laugh it off,
with the best possible methods, but Ifyou can start these conversations one
on one, and even if you're, as a parent,not totally comfortable, if they have
another safe adult that, that you are okaywith them having this conversation with,
(45:01):
another family member or a family friend,someone that they can feel safe talking
to about this stuff, don't we want allof our kids to feel prepared and safe?
able to come with questionsif they have them.
and you know, we all want ourkids to feel like they can come
to us if they're in trouble.
Alexis (45:18):
Absolutely.
And that's also super important as well.
parents who are bringing theirkiddos in for counseling or advocacy
with our youth advocate, she alwaysemphasizes that if they need any
parental resources or anything likethat, she can provide that as well.
Or their counselor individually canalso provide them any kind of parenting
guides or how to best support their childduring this time or things like that
Stef (45:40):
Yeah, all of this stuff starts at home.
you are your kid's safe space.
and the more you canmaintain that the better.
I think that also, underscores thatyou all are definitely great emergency
resource advocates and, you provide, a lotof resources, specifically for people who
are right in the middle of that situation.
but.
There are also a lot of things that youall can provide sort of preventatively
(46:04):
to give you information about, howto educate your own kids, how to
educate yourself about these topics.
Alexis (46:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
And if, after hearing this, if anybodywants to reach out and have myself or
our youth advocate or sexual assaultadvocate come in and teach those
preventative tactics, we are alwaysavailable and willing to come and do that
Because, yeah.
We would
Stef (46:25):
reach out and ask questions if you're not
Alexis (46:27):
Oh, absolutely.
Our phones are again, 24 seven.
So, and we say crisis line, obviouslyit's for any survivors who are needing
immediate assistance, but we can alsohelp anybody in the community or just
listen to somebody just chat about what'sgoing on if they are in situation or if
another community member is saying thatthey realize that their daughter might be
(46:49):
in an abusive relationship but they don'tknow how to kind of proceed with that.
They can always reach out to us and wecan try to help as much as we can So
it's not just the emergency part of it.
We're available to anybody who needsto call us and look for any kind
of resources or any kind of support
Stef (47:03):
Yeah, I appreciated what you said in the, presentation that you did
for Coalition of Greater Greatvillethe other day that, in the best case
scenario, your work would be so effectivethat your jobs would become obsolete.
ultimately I think our goal shouldbe to have these conversations
and to create a culture wherewe don't need these emergency
Alexis (47:20):
Yeah,
Stef (47:21):
same extent that, we can teach our children to become adults who,
who don't end up in these situationsor who are able to get help when
they do end up in these situations.
Alexis (47:30):
absolutely.
But otherwise we will be here advocatingfor survivors as, as long as we're needed.
So
Stef (47:37):
that the, the conversation starts with all of us.
we are all equally, apart of this conversation.
so thank you for sticking with us.
I know this was a very intenseconversation, but, it's obviously
something I feel very strongly about too,as someone who survived that as well.
I am a huge believer in, educatingyoung people to try to prevent
(47:57):
those situations happening again.
I'm so grateful that we haveyour group in our community and
that those resources are there.
Alexis (48:06):
thank you.
And we're also grateful to all thecommunity members out there who support
our mission and are always willingto, step out and help us with any kind
of emergency needs we might have, or.
Just support our mission in any capacitySo thank you to everybody out there
Stef (48:22):
You've got an event coming up to support you all.
Did you want to mention that as well?
Oh,
Alexis (48:25):
absolutely.
so we have our annual Corksand Kegs fundraiser that is
taking place on May 10th.
it'll be at Shadow Ridge, GolfCourse and Banquet Center in Ionia.
And it's a craft beer andwine tasting that we have.
Um, tickets are 35.
And yeah, it's just a fun night of, uh,raising money for survivors in our agency.
(48:47):
and any future ones that we may have thatcome through our doors and just support
our mission and keep up with whatever weneed around shelter and things like that.
But there'll be a silent auction,food, raffles and fun things like that.
So yeah, come join
Stef (49:03):
and what date was that again?
Alexis (49:04):
May 10th.
It's from 5 to 8 p.
m.
Stef (49:07):
Okay.
So that's coming up here soon.
And I, I will put informationabout that on our website as well.
thank you again for sitting down with me.
Please feel free to reach out to them,even if you're just interested in hearing
more what they do or getting involved.
Alexis (49:18):
thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Stef (49:20):
take care.
all right, so we've got a change of planshere, our special guest for the day, is
making me work for my salary today, soI'm gonna apply some tough love management
technique here, and I'm gonna pass over,podcast hosting duties to our guest
who is shaking her head and just like,why are you doing this to me right now?
(49:42):
She's never going to come back
Danielle (49:43):
to come
Megan (49:43):
Never.
Stef (49:44):
you're definitely not going to be a librarian after this.
That's for sure.
Yep.
Okay.
All right.
So our new host, Megan Wonderjam.
You can ask questions if
Megan (49:52):
don't, I don't have any questions to ask.
Stef (49:54):
You don't need, you can't even come up with questions to ask.
Danielle (49:57):
ask.
Megan (49:58):
not that interesting.
Stef (50:00):
Well, when you're asking questions, you don't have to be interesting.
You just have to figure out how you canput it, push it off onto somebody else.
Danielle (50:06):
So, you say, like, what made you want to go into being a director?
Megan (50:11):
Can, yeah, answer,
Stef (50:12):
put me on the spot
Megan (50:12):
answer that one.
Why, yeah.
Stef (50:15):
Um, so I, God you are cheating.
Even your mom is doingit for you at this point.
so I didn't wanna bedirector for a long time.
I always told myself that, like,that would be when I didn't have any
energy left to do anything else, thatwould be sort of where I would land.
I was a patron here at this libraryfor, for years before working here,
(50:35):
and I always really loved this librarybecause it's spectacular, which, you
know, if you didn't notice, we are,we got voted best library by the Daily
News in our area, so we are, you know,fundamentally the awesomest, But it
was sort of like, it was something thatwas more a practical choice as opposed
to like something I wanted to do.
And then I realized that, being a directormeant that I could take all of the crazy,
(51:01):
enormous ideas that I have that probablywould not seem realistic under normal
circumstances and just run with them.
And they just let me do it.
And we're lucky enough here that we havea lot of community support and we, we are
decently well funded so a lot of these,a lot of these crazy ideas of mine I've
managed to bring to fruition like thisabsurd podcast situation that's happening.
This was one of my random ideas thatwas almost entirely prompted by the fact
(51:24):
that there were sales on, Amazon PrimeDay for equipment and I really like
getting Amazon packages in the mail.
so that's why we're here right now.
Um, but then of course the stuff withBlackfield too and driving past that
every day and thinking, man, I really wishsomebody would give us that piece of land.
so we're working on that right now too.
and I'm much better at bossing peoplearound than being bossed around.
Megan (51:46):
bossed around.
Stef (51:47):
so that's why I'm here.
But we also have, like, really greatpeople here, which is why I'm still here.
I've worked with some just trulyawful people over the years.
I think we all have.
If you've reached a certain pointin your life, you've, you've
worked with some awful people.
I would say pretty much everybodywho works here, they're here and they
continue to be here because they reallylike our library, they like what we
(52:08):
do and, They feel good about doingsomething positive for the community.
So,
so that was a good two minutesthat I just talked there.
It's totally doable.
If you just let yourself blurt stuff out
Megan (52:18):
Yeah.
Stef (52:19):
back to you,
Megan (52:19):
Uh, what about you?
You can take it over.
Mom?
Stef (52:24):
you're still the host.
Megan (52:25):
Nope.
No.
Stef (52:26):
stop trying to make things go away.
One of the things you're going tolearn as you grow up is that sometimes
you're going to be tasked with thingsthat, that you weren't prepared for
and you just got to run with them.
And try to do your best with them.
If somebody, like, brings you a deadbody and they're like, you have to
figure out what happened to thisperson, and you don't know what you're
doing, you just gotta figure it out.
(52:46):
so here's your, this isyour assignment for today.
is, is the public speaking sideof having to do school work one
of your least favorite things?
Megan (52:55):
question, I promise.
Okay.
So it's one of those things where
Stef (53:07):
Okay, so it's one of those things where there's a, the lead up is a lot
more than, yeah, that's understandable.
Um, I feel like that, that evolvesas you get older too, and it either
gets worse or it gets better.
Um, I didn't really like publicspeaking when I was younger, but.
Now clearly I just enjoythe sound of my own voice.
Megan (53:26):
so I embrace
Stef (53:27):
embrace every opportunity I get to do it.
So do you would you say that you'regenerally more introverted or not?
Megan (53:32):
Yeah, for sure.
Okay.
Stef (53:34):
but you said that you're more your term was a yapper in
Megan (53:37):
home.
Stef (53:38):
fun term.
It makes you sound like a puppy
Megan (53:40):
it makes you At home, I
yap a lot.
Stef (53:43):
but not at school.
Megan (53:45):
With my friends, but
Stef (53:47):
Do any sort of like groups that you get involved with in school, or do
you do sports or anything like that?
Megan (53:52):
No.
Stef (53:53):
Okay.
I mean, there is nothingwrong with that, honestly.
Like, when people talk about doingsports, it takes a specific personality
to be comfortable, potentially justfalling on your face in front of people.
have you been friends withyour friends for a long time?
Megan (54:08):
time?
Yeah, since like middle school.
Stef (54:10):
Okay.
do you see yourself being one ofthose people that has like sort of
lifelong friends that you will stickwith, with people for a long time?
Danielle (54:17):
a
Megan (54:18):
Um, I'm not sure.
I guess it depends on like,what they do for college.
So, yeah, and like where they go forcollege, but like right now I throw
a lot of parties for my friends.
So,
Stef (54:32):
that mom knows about?
Megan (54:33):
yes, yes, yes, she knows about these parties.
So I'm, because I like stillhaving everyone get together
and keep the friend group.
But.
Stef (54:44):
So, would you say that you're a group person or a one on one person
Megan (54:47):
I don't know.
I guess it depends on Do
Stef (54:49):
you work better in a team or do you prefer to work I'm going into interview
Megan (54:53):
doing an interview mode here.
No, uh, it depends onthe people that I have.
Because some of them, if I'm in a group,they kind of section themselves off.
And so then I kind oflike, I'm left alone.
Well, with some other people,I like being like one on one.
Okay.
Because it's just easierto like, talk to them and
Stef (55:12):
Yeah, and I feel like that becomes more true as you get, more adult as well.
How do you feel like you are withyour, your social group, Danielle?
Danielle (55:21):
What social group?
Megan (55:22):
I mean,
Stef (55:23):
a legit question at this age, we don't do groups necessarily, or like, we
get isolated really easily as adults, so,
Danielle (55:31):
Yeah, no, I, I'm pretty much a loner, I guess you can say, because all
of my friends have moved away and it'shard to try to keep in touch with them.
So when I do have time, I tryto travel up to Baldwin to
visit one of my best friends.
But other than that, it'sjust me and my friends here
(55:52):
at work.
Stef (55:52):
You almost made that sound sincere.
Danielle (55:55):
I know!
It was so close.
Stef (55:58):
but it almost seemed like you were trying not to sound
sincere and that's what you, youlike sabotage yourself on it.
Danielle (56:04):
did.
Stef (56:04):
I'd say generally speaking, not including me because I'm the boss and
I'm also not very nice, but generallyspeaking, staff is, made friends within
the staff, which is also nice as longas we're like also doing our job.
Because I've also worked placeswhere like being friends meant
like, oh, you're going to cover mewhile I'm not doing my job properly.
And it's like, well, no, I'm not because.
(56:26):
That makes my life harder.
it really does gettrickier the older you get.
There's something like, this is goingto be kind of hoity toity, but you
have to appreciate when you're likein high school and college, what a
great opportunity it is to meet newpeople and to be immersed in your
friends in that period of your life.
Cause the older you get, theharder it is to find time.
Ferris is where you're aiming for.
(56:47):
Okay.
is it like ride or die, or doyou have other backup options?
Megan (56:52):
I don't have any other backup options at the moment.
I've mostly just been looking at Ferris,
Stef (56:57):
Okay.
Well, it's reasonably close, whichis convenient, Is there anything in
particular, other than where it'sat, that drew you to that school?
Megan (57:06):
I mean my cousin's also going to Ferris, so it would just be
nice to have someone I know there.
Stef (57:11):
Oh yeah, That always helps.
Although, again, Maybe this is justme because I burn bridges, but,
I found that one of the most funthings about going to college was
just kind of starting fresh too.
were you planning on living on thecampus or were you going to stay here?
Megan (57:25):
I want to live on the campus.
Stef (57:27):
Okay.
it gives you the opportunity to sortof be in a space where everybody's
meeting new people at the same time.
Cause being the new kid is not fun,but if everybody's the new kid, Then
everybody kind of just goes bananasand your brain hasn't fully formed
yet, so you make decisions thataren't necessarily the best decisions
It's a beautiful time.
but no, seriously, I have a lot ofrespect for the extremely, responsible
(57:51):
and practical young people that arelike, I'm going to go to community
college and I'm going to stay athome and I'm going to, you know,
I'm going to do this practically.
And it's like, that's great, butyou kind of have to just be stupid
for a little while when you're acollege freshman, because you can
make mistakes at that point that youwill not get away with later in life.
Danielle (58:10):
a
Stef (58:12):
time.
I'd say that completely unsarcastically.
That you will never get back.
that's probably enough, right?
Megan (58:17):
only made you
Stef (58:19):
I really only made you be host for like 30 seconds.
so well done you.
I feel like that was beautifully handled.
Megan (58:25):
I think I did pretty well.
Stef (58:26):
yeah, I think so too, absolutely.
You talked a little bit more.
So,
Megan (58:30):
working on it.
Yeah,
Danielle (58:31):
Yeah, we
Stef (58:32):
got there.
Well, I'm sorry, Megan.
I apologize for everything I just I'llsend you back to circulation and you
can go back to processing hold, go backto the school and be like, don't do job
Danielle (58:41):
job shadowing.
They
Stef (58:42):
you do, they record you doing things and it's like they
make you host their podcast forthem and it's just not worth it.
but seriously, thank youfor being game for it.
I appreciate it.
and not, Not immediately assuming that itwas gonna be please don't make me do this.
Please, please don't make me do this.
and thank you Danielle forbeing open to it, as well.
Thanks a lot guys.
Danielle (59:03):
You're
Megan (59:04):
Yep.
Take
Danielle (59:05):
care.
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