March 25, 2024 • 61 mins
In episode 10 of the Focused Professional Podcast, we dive into the world of fine art portraiture and photography training with renowned photographer and teacher, Martina Wärenfeld. This world class artist shares her varied experiences from recent surprise successes in Vegas to the reality of being a professional in a changing economic climate.
Martina shares how her approach to competitions has changed, using them in different ways as part of her career strategy. She speaks openly and honestly about her struggles, whether that is understanding the apparent whims of social media advertising or remembering the right technical terms when teaching! Martina dispels the myth of the "perfect expert", showing us instead that all of us are always learning and evolving. Together, we explore the importance of understanding your own personality for developing a photography business.
Join us in this journey of learning, growing, and gaining inspiration to develop a photographic style and solid business. It's a fantastic blend of artistry, resilience, entrepreneurial spirit, and humorous anecdotes intended to fuel continual learning, development, and passion in photography
Some of Martina's images:
Visit Martina's Website for Fine Art Portraiture & Teaching
If you would like to keep up to date with the latest images and news from Martina then please follow her on Instagram
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Focused Professional Podcast. This is Episode 10, and I'm Joe Lenton.
Music.
(00:30):
Welcome to the Focused Professional Podcast. Today we're with Martina Warenfeld. Hello Martina. Hello.
And Martina I'm sure you've heard of. She is well known for taking home plenty
of trophies, filling up her shelves with lots of pretty objects,
glass objects and other objects that celebrate her many successes.
(00:51):
She's also a very well known and celebrated trainer in photography,
known particularly for her fine art portraiture.
So we're thrilled to have you on today, Martina. Thank you for coming on.
Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here. Like I mentioned to you earlier,
you know, don't want to turn down any possibility that we have to talk about our passion.
(01:13):
Quite, yeah. We're all nerds at heart, really, photographers.
Absolutely. So you've just come back from Vegas, and of course,
with a few more pretty things to put on the mantelpiece.
So tell us a little bit about that. What did you win in Vegas?
Well, Vegas was a big surprise this year. It was pretty cool.
I came there quite relaxed. So this is the first time that I actually had speaking engagements.
(01:36):
And that's been a goal of mine, an internal, especially internal goal that I
was like dreamt of being one of those speakers.
Because when I came there many years ago, for the first time,
I didn't know anybody. I didn't know the industry that well.
And I was just utterly alone walking down the hallways, taking classes from
big names and getting to know the industry and also started my competition. Thank you.
(01:59):
In Vegas, the whole route of competing.
So WPPI has a very, very special place in my heart.
I've got lots of longtime friends coming from going over there.
So this year, I was so focused on my speaking engagements and I was so thrilled.
(02:21):
And also when I entered the competition because
they redid the whole competition for this
year yeah they've been going through some reorganization and
when I entered it in October I've had
some personal issues it was I was not
in a good space and I was really not
feeling encouraged and I was like oh yeah well
(02:43):
I cannot not enter so I got
to throw something in there and and I pulled a couple
of you know things that i believed in and i
made it to the finals with two images one was
quite strong the other one okay not so
much but the one that was strong i
still i because i've been competing with that image a couple of times before
(03:08):
okay yeah throughout the year both in sweden and in london and it got well received
yes but i listened in to it's not one of those Because I've had other images
where judges rave about it.
And this one has been sort of like hit and miss.
You know, people go, yeah, it's good, but it doesn't really catch on to everybody.
(03:28):
So I was not really confident in that image.
But it was okay, though. So that's what I'm saying was the biggest surprise,
because I was not that...
Nervous or I should say excited I was just
so much more relaxed this time because my focus
was on the speaking engagements and the
training that I was going to do there so when they
(03:50):
came to the award I was like oh it's okay you know I'm happy
I'm glad I'm in the finals that was a big achievement because they
only brought 10 top 10 in each category
made it to the final so I was quite happy with
that and I told my friend before the awards night I think I might
have a chance at third place that might be possible you
know and if i get a third place in vegas i am happy
(04:12):
yeah yeah absolutely so that was
what i said and she goes are you sure because she's been seeing me
compete before god's honest truth you know i
don't even have butterflies so and i saw the
other images in that category and it was just they were
really good so when we get to the awards night i achieved my
double master's degree in vegas and
(04:32):
before we haven't really been called up on
stage for that but now they have made trophies for
the double masters excellent so we get caught yeah hopefully
a nice big one yeah it was a nice big one good and i had the opportunity to
to walk on stage with my dear friend and colleague sarah edmunds and we got
up there together hand in hand it was this beautiful moment and we got our trophies
(04:56):
and i told her i says yay this is my My only shot of being on stage this night,
because in Vegas.
Only the first place winners go on stage.
You get a trophy for second and third, but you don't get on stage until you're in first place.
And I only had a first place win in Vegas one time before. And that was 2019.
(05:17):
So they don't come around easy.
And so I'm happy that I got this double master trophy.
And I was like, yeah, I'm bringing home a trophy.
That was like the biggest thing for me. And then the category came on. It was maternity.
And the category came on. And I sat there.
(05:38):
And the third place came up. And that was one of my favorites.
And then second place came on, and that was the favorite I had for that category.
I thought I was going to win the whole thing.
So I was sitting there filming it because I was hoping for third place, right?
And then when that came up, I was about to take my camera down and literally
reach over to grab my drink because I was done in my head.
And then they said, and the winner is Martina Warenfeldt. And I go, what?
(06:03):
That was my first result. I go, what?
No. So I said, I was shaking my head all the way up to the stage.
I go, no, no, no. Somebody counted this wrong.
It was the weirdest feeling because, you know, entering so many competitions
for so many years, you still have that butterfly.
You still have that excitement. You still get, oh, but this year I was like,
(06:27):
nah, nah, it's not going to happen.
So, oh, the shock was, it was so
much fun. The shock was so much fun to experience that you'd be like, oh.
That's even better, I think, when it's like that, rather than when you're sort
of on the edge of your seat all the time wondering, have I got it?
Thinking, this is a good one.
This is going to actually make
it, you know, and then you get disappointed. But no, this was a blast.
(06:50):
Emotions, I felt, was a blast. I imagine. Really excited. Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, is this, when you enter the competitions like this, is this something
that you do because you enjoy that buzz of winning?
Is it something you do to help your business? Is it something for yourself to
kind of get a feeling for how you're measuring up?
What makes you enter these kind of competitions?
(07:11):
What a good question, because there has been a journey of reasons, actually.
I started out for actually measurements because I wanted to do workshops.
I wanted to do training. Yeah.
And before I started that, I wanted to sort of measure because I wasn't involved
in the big photography communities, the national ones, the international ones.
(07:31):
I was just a little, you know, businesswoman, done it for many years,
had happy clients down here in my city, and I was happy.
But I was like, okay, so if I'm going to go out on a national scale,
teaching people about portraiture, how good am I?
You know, do I measure up? So that's when I entered the first time in the Swedish
nationals. And I did so good, so good that year. I was shocked myself.
(07:56):
And then I dared to enter into WPPI the next following year.
And I had a few prints hanging in the gallery. So that's how I got started.
And it was definitely a buzz. It was definitely an ego thing in the beginning
to go, yay, I'm doing something great.
And on a personal note, at the same time, we have had some really difficult times.
(08:21):
And it's not hard to draw the line between me excelling in my craft as the rest
of my life was sort of in turmoil. oil.
So because I was really happy at work, and I was sort of feeling successful.
And I just like jumped, it was like my therapy. Yeah, yeah.
(08:44):
So that's why I think it would just connected with me so hard in the beginning,
because my life was kind of chaotic at that time.
So I felt happy and relaxed and successful in that area. So that's why I continued.
And then I realized that this This could be a path.
(09:04):
To doing more international workshops because I was already teaching locally
and nationally at that time, a couple of years I went by and I did Norway and
Finland and stuff like that. But I was like, I love to travel.
I love to see new cultures and meet people.
And I love to talk about, like I
said in the beginning, the passion about photography and the portraiture.
(09:26):
And I do bore my clients to death sometimes because I want to tell them why
I'm doing this and how I'm thinking.
And they're like yeah whatever so for
me to to have students who
are interested it's it's happiness for
me so i i decided that or i
(09:47):
contemplated that winning awards will
get my name out there yeah and so i can
have an international audience so so
people will be hey you're good at what you do you want
want to come here and talk and so the last
few years it's been a career yeah thing still
excited though oh yeah i mean i'm still getting nervous and
(10:09):
i still get the buzz so so it's a win-win but it
has been a conscious choice to enter
to build upon my sort of
competition degree and and having
that being the name pushed out so now it's working so now
i am you know gathering interviewing international
students for online courses and talking about
(10:30):
maybe like just the other day i had
an editing course online and this girl
in romania missed the appointment but we recorded it so she's gonna get it so
i talked to her on the phone and i said i'm so sorry you missed it it was a
misunderstanding and then she was like i'm from romania well i never been to
romania and then we start talking and she goes oh my god i have several friend
(10:52):
photographers who actually follows you as well.
And maybe you want to come to Romania and do a workshop. What do you need?
And I go, cool. I would love to.
And then boom, that wheel is spinning. So it's working, you know?
That's great. And I love that part.
Yeah. It's interesting how our careers can evolve like that.
And sometimes in directions that we try to engineer, and then sometimes in directions
(11:13):
we had no idea about what was going to happen. Yep. Yep.
It's quite bizarre, isn't it? It's bizarre and that's one thing that really
clicks with my personality. I hate routine.
I sympathize with you there. Absolutely. Oh, gosh. I just want the variety.
I want the excitement, the challenges.
And not all the time. I don't mind sometimes just going to work and just do normal stuff as well.
(11:39):
But I think it keeps me interested and it keeps me passionate and it just keeps me happier.
Yeah, I mean, you seem to have a real passion both for your sort of portrait
work that you do for clients, but also for the teaching as well.
So you're passionate about passing on your knowledge and your enthusiasm for the subject as well.
(12:01):
Well is that have you always sort of thought that you'd
like to to go into teaching have you always had an urge to kind
of share what you learn are you somebody who naturally
when you get interested in something you want to tell people about it is
that how you got into teaching or i just like to
tell people what to do i see so it's either you pose like that stand like that
(12:22):
or no stick your camera here put the lights there yep okay pure bossiness fair
enough pure bossiness um i i I don't know.
I never thought of myself. I wasn't a good student, for example. I was a bit obstinate.
I was a bit, you know, rules are made to be broken kind of a student.
(12:45):
What happens if someone does that in one of your workshops then?
Can you cope with that? I encourage it. Excellent. I encourage it. Yes.
I tell them all the time. I think my father was sort of a natural,
I wouldn't say leader, but he was like always, if
he got involved in something then he was invited into
the board and then suddenly he was that chairman you know because
(13:05):
he was engaging yeah as a person and
i think that is one of the things i i inherit from him i'm engaging as a person
i am engaging with my clients and i am engaging with trainees and and like i
said i'm passionate at what i do and i enjoy to see that That little light bulb
(13:27):
goes off. And I've taken a lot of courses.
And sometimes I've sat in with huge star photographers and very talented and very good craftsmen.
But then I've also been overwhelmed because it's so technical and they've been so perfect, so to speak.
(13:47):
So you sort of get intimidated and you feel insecure and you lose a little bit
of self-confidence sometimes when you go to classes.
So what I think that I really enjoy doing is just bringing some.
Losing some of their pretentiousness and just giving them my horror stories
(14:08):
about me screwing up and I'm just showing that everything we can fail at this.
And I'm just, I'm not even, I'm not even good at technical terms,
you know? So I'll be literally like, you know, that little button that sort
of turns the system, you know, that comes out, that's the one you're going to use.
And they look at me and go, oh, thank God, another one like me, you know?
(14:28):
And sometimes I I have a colleague of mine here in Sweden, and she lives just outside the city.
And this is the third year in a row we are doing a combined workshop for a couple of days. Okay.
And she does a lot of fairy tale kind of portraits out in the forest. And I do my fine art.
We're usually at a castle or we rent like a mansion.
(14:50):
Nice. And I do my fine art portraits inside. And then the group goes outside
with her in the woods, in the forest. So it's a perfect combination.
But she's so technical. because she's so good at all the words and the right terms.
So when I'm standing there having my lecture and I look at her and I go,
Maria, the, she goes, the name is blah, blah, blah. And I go, thank you, Maria.
(15:12):
And, and I kind of. A walking textbook for you.
It is. And I'm doing my Photoshop and I'm going, uh, I keep forgetting.
I just did it the other night.
I keep forgetting. Oh yeah, that's right. This is, see, I already forgot it.
I don't even remember what that was. the little band-aid oh yeah the healing
brush yeah thank you that's one i always forget.
(15:36):
And i have to sort of hover over it
with my first healing brush tool healing brush
and i think that and what i enjoy about teaching is when i can see people looking
at me going oh my god that's so funny you're like me and i've had had a couple
of those throughout the years when I realized that those big photographer names aren't perfect.
(16:01):
And that gave me the confidence and the courage to go out there and tell people I'm not perfect.
Yeah, I can do this really well. Absolutely. And I think it's giving people
the courage to try things in workshops as well.
I mean, when I started doing some group workshops myself,
(16:22):
I had people coming who were used to going to very big workshops,
lots and lots of people where the person would essentially set something up
and then everybody else would join a queue, go through, take a photo and sit down.
And that was basically it. So I said to them, right, OK, I'm going to show you
this. So I would demonstrate the lighting.
And then I was really mean. I changed all the settings and all the lights.
(16:45):
I moved the lights around the room.
And I said, right, now it's your turn.
What a great way to learn, though. It's like, oh, I was like,
you have been paying attention, haven't you?
Yeah, oh, my goodness. That's kind of evil, but good.
And that way i knew when they
left that they could actually do it not
(17:08):
just have a picture of it on their camera going oh yeah i took a picture with
so-and-so's lighting set up and people are not used to working like that they're
not used to instructors necessarily really challenging them i mean you get some
great instructors at some international conventions but But all too often on
sort of the smaller local levels,
it's just someone who's got something to vaguely work and then they just show
(17:32):
everyone else and they repeat it and that's it. Yeah. Yeah.
That's a good way to do it. I might steal that method a little bit, Joe. Yeah.
I have an upcoming workshop in in both
finland and oslo and i'm
for example norway i've been going
to once or twice a year for many years now
(17:53):
i love to go to norway i have a lot of friends in norway they're
photographers and just enjoy coming over there
but it also puts the pressure on me to come up with
something new yeah because i do not want to go over there
once or twice a year and repeat myself so no there's
like oh you want to come over here and do a little workshop like we with you last year go
sure oh gosh what am i going to talk about what i'm going to
talk about how i'm going to do this differently yeah yeah absolutely yeah
(18:16):
that could be get them to do element get them
to do some of the work like that yeah that'll that will
appeal to your slightly naughty side i think that you'll enjoy
you'll enjoy that thank you for
giving me that tip even if it's just
as you walk away you turn the power down or something and don't
tell them you've done it they take a photo and go oh that
(18:36):
doesn't look right that kind of problem solving i
think is is how people learn much more effectively than
just okay if i'm going to do this picture i need
to be at this setting on my camera this light goes to that
setting i need that size an umbrella with that kind of
yeah you know it's so formulaic then and.
You think if you can understand light you can
(18:57):
understand the principles you you can
take great photos with all sorts of things yeah it
doesn't have to be the latest and the greatest stuff so which
is which is excellent for me to think about i
really really appreciate you mentioned this right now because
i do tend to feel like i want to add something to it because i'm most like you
(19:19):
said in the beginning i'm mostly known for my fine art portraiture yeah and
they want me to talk about artistic portraits and how many ways can i go through
this you know I want to add some more elements,
which is good because I keep challenging myself to do something different.
But it's also when it comes to workshops.
(19:42):
Not just talk about colors and props and hand holdings and hand posing,
which is my expertise, but also bringing in another level of understanding,
like you said, about the light and stuff.
So good. Very good. I think if people can work stuff out, I think that it stays with them for longer.
You know, it involves a bit more of the brain than just the kind of watch and repeat.
(20:06):
Feet so it's it can it can feel a bit cruel
to begin with if they especially if they've come in a bit dopey and
haven't paid enough attention so okay what
do i do here
but i mean for me i've got a small
studio so i've had i've come up with ways of creating the lighting that i want
(20:26):
without having the space and the kind of modifiers all the time that i that
i want to be able to use So I've got sort of big white sheets of foam core board
that I use in place of another light source because I haven't got room to put a light there.
So I'll use it, bound some light from another one.
So sometimes one light is doing like three jobs.
(20:46):
You get quite creative that way. You do. You do.
And I didn't have a large studio from the beginning.
So I had very low ceilings and I was not able to photograph large groups.
So I also turned to, you know, learn Photoshop quite early just so I can,
(21:06):
you know, stitch together large groups, you know, whatever.
Did you get them all sitting down to begin with as well, I suppose?
No one's standing up. Not really that low, but yeah, definitely challenged with the lighting.
But we got to start somewhere, you know. Absolutely.
Yeah. And make it work. So, I mean, you've taught in quite a few countries now.
(21:26):
What's your sort of feeling for the the sort of
standard of photography and for how people how much
people want to learn well i think that
the learning the interest of learning is definitely there
wherever you go in the world because people show up to those places because
they want to learn yeah and i think what's interesting is because online right
(21:47):
now we have so many possibilities we there is anything and i go online when
i have a problem or a photoshop thing that i was like like, how do I do that?
And then I go to YouTube, I find tutorials. And that's one way of learning.
And it's out there for anybody.
But I think as a community, or when you're really interested,
(22:08):
when you meet with people, when you're in a setting where you have live body, so to speak,
and you bounce off each other energy and ideas and problems comes up,
just like we just mentioned.
And that just gives it another level of learning and I think that that's still
thriving and it feels like people are still interested in meeting that way. Great.
(22:32):
So that's one part of it and as far as the standard of portraits.
I think it's good. I think the knowledge, once again, is out there and people
are learning and they are interested in it.
Then if you look back to way, way, way before, it's always going to be those
who levels up and those who are happy to.
(22:53):
I mean, I have colleagues in town that hasn't really upped their game in, I would say, 15 years.
There's no changes. They're still making a decent living.
So but for them it's not
the passion to to grow as an
artist yeah it's a bit like they just yeah i mean
you was you know you were saying earlier you get bored with
(23:16):
just doing the same thing just doing the routine and so on and you like to be
that developing yourself i suppose that for some people it's a bit like for
me as a commercial photographer you get some people who love just doing the
same thing over and over and over because they can shoot quite quickly and they
can and make quite a lot of money quite quickly.
That sort of thing I just find so boring.
(23:37):
But that's the personality of a fly. Exactly. So for them, they don't necessarily
always want to keep pushing themselves.
And for others like me, I never feel like I've learned enough.
But it's different. That's wonderful because I try to say that and explain that
sometimes when we are talking about photography that whatever is in you as a
(23:59):
person and your personality is what's going to shape your career.
Yeah. It's, it's, if you find that.
Connection with who you are and how you work, you will be happy.
Because it's not for everybody to find the perfection or go for perfection or
chase it or develop all the time.
(24:21):
Some people come up to this, they learn the basic skills, they get paid for
their, and then they're happy.
And they're not going to win awards. They're not going to be coming that way,
but they do make a a decent living actually enjoying shooting
you know with a camera making portraits people
buying it done yeah and then we have
(24:41):
the other group they're not as sane can't think
who you're talking about that sort
of like i want more more what can
i learn this week yeah absolutely it's got
to be something we can talk about to somebody i don't know maybe
we need therapy yeah maybe we need
(25:01):
therapy so yeah i think i think the levels are just
as it always has been throughout it's like some people
are going to push it and they're going to reach those level and we see that
and we think it's amazing if you go to competitions like
in london for swpp or in vegas
for wppi and you can see the amount of
creativity and the passion that
(25:23):
goes into those competition prints and i am such
a fan of print competition because the
print and the final end is that evidence of the craftsmanship because today
when you have the all the online possibilities some people are amazing at their
(25:43):
instagram work and and they put out and they can be like superstars on instagram.
But if they're going to print that file, it might not look as amazing.
So for me, the completion of the craftsmanship is to actually to be able to make a beautiful print.
That's why I think print competitions and the few that are still around are so important.
(26:06):
Yeah, they have an important role in the industry and helping people to maintain
standards and giving people new ideas and things to aspire to.
And i think it's it's important that
we do maintain those those standards in there i
think there's a lot of tools that we have in photography now
and they just seem to grow by the day what we can use to create
(26:28):
things and there's that little bit of a risk that we potentially get lazy and
think oh i'll just fix it afterwards or oh i'll just so i do that i've become
very good at photoshop because i'm i'm lazy sometimes yeah that there is there
you have to kind of decide where you want to put the work.
Am I going to do it in the studio with the light, moving it two inches to the
(26:51):
left, two inches to the right?
Or am I going to do it in Photoshop with brushes and things like that?
So, you know, it's a choice for your workflow, how you want to be.
But I think sometimes people do rely a bit too much on hoping that they can fix it afterwards.
Oh, of course. And that is definitely one thing
that we really like talking about is get it right in
(27:12):
camera and and the things that you can
miss sometimes could be a strand of hair or whatever that's okay
but the basics of lights
lightning lightning not lightning the lighting
skills and all of that is really needs to be there i think like you said you
know taking care of the standards and and trying to you know have that as a
(27:37):
community professional professional photographers coming up to that standard
just for everybody's sake. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. And we're all offering something more than a customer would be able to just do themselves.
I think, you know, as a professional, that's kind of our role is to be able
to give them something that they can't do themselves, really. Yeah. Yeah. True.
(27:59):
So with your fine arts or portraiture work, you've said before that you were
kind of inspired by paintings, sort of more classical portraiture.
What is it about that that appeals to you? Can you sort of describe why that interests you?
Sure. Well, actually, I wanted to paint when I was younger.
(28:21):
For me, my mom was a very good sketch artist, and she can draw very beautiful pictures.
And I was inspired by her, and I tried to do it, and I can't.
I have no talent in my hand.
Literally, I pretty much suck at it.
And I tried. I'm really good at drawing eyes and horses' heads.
(28:43):
That's it. That's where it stopped.
Okay. So for me, that was a basic interest.
And then I'm just thinking that I always enjoyed beauty.
And it can be literally anything. It can be beauty of a small,
tiny flower in the forest.
It can be beauty of a late night sky. guy i
(29:04):
that something that it's pleasing and
i think i take it to heart it can be
a beautiful person personality wise it can
be a out you know like a face that's
beautiful or hair that's beautiful i tend to stop and tell oh my god your hair
is amazing i just tend to pay attention to the beauty that is around and looking
(29:28):
at old masters paintings i am not fond of those who are They're a little bit more grotesque,
and there are maybe evoking emotions that people go,
oh, this is so strong and powerful, and I go, ugh.
And then I go, I look at this. When you're at these huge museums and you have
the sculptures, Nike, is that in the Louvre?
(29:51):
The big bust with the, I think it's Nike that that statue is called.
But they have made this fabric in marble.
And you make this fabric, it looks like it's flowing. And you stand there going,
it's so beautiful. How did they do that?
Or you get the big paintings and you can see the brushstrokes.
(30:14):
So, yeah, I think it's an awe for the talent of people creating that from what
they had possible for them.
And also, it's just so pleasing. And it's just something that I can just rest in.
So, yeah, I think that's where the inspiration comes from. So you like images
that you feel comfortable sitting with then.
(30:35):
So something dark like a Caravaggio or something like that, not so much your thing?
No, I don't. There's a picture I see in my mind when an old man is like literally
biting some other heads off.
I don't know. That's just the one thing that came up in my mind.
I go, no, no. No, and that's a problem for me sometimes when it comes to competition.
(30:56):
Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, because I talked to a lot of people that some dear
colleagues of mine that are amazing at storytelling.
Like take Hannah Nerrett. Yeah. That is amazing at storytelling.
And Kelly, Kelly Brown. Mm-hmm.
They have that, they can tap into emotions that people, when they see the image, they go, oh, man.
(31:19):
I remember Kelly did an image a few years back that I was like,
why didn't I come up with that?
When she had her, you know, she has boxers and she had one of their dog and
laying on, there's two dog pillows.
And one of her dogs is laying on one pillow, looking over to the other pillow where it was an urn.
An urn. So there was no dog there, it was an urn. And I go, it is such a simple
(31:43):
idea, beautifully executed.
And I go, why can't I find the darkness?
And so, yeah, I feel like I can make pretty pictures, you know, beautiful flowers.
Oh, well, we need some of that. I think, yeah.
(32:03):
I mean, I think my default tends to be towards the darker side, I think.
We need everything. We need everything. We need a bit of both.
And yeah, again, it's coming through your personality.
It's the photography or whatever art form is an extension of yourself.
It's expressing yourself, your own view of something.
So that should be different to somebody else's. It shouldn't be identical.
(32:27):
Yeah, that's true. It's true.
I'm not saying I'm not happy where I'm at. I'm just saying that there is definitely
room for improvement. I just need to dip into my darkness.
Okay fair enough yeah so when you're
shooting you know members of the
public i suppose the darker side doesn't really tend to come into it so
(32:48):
much then they tend to want to look a bit more pretty anyway but yeah so
when you when you're shooting sort of members of the
public for like a fine art portrait uh-huh
you very much talk about on your website about making
it an experience for them and i think that that's
something especially when portrait photographers are starting out that they
can kind of forget that it's not just about the picture you know it's about
(33:10):
more than that so what sort of what sort of things do you suggest that portrait
photographers can do and what sort of things do you like to do to make it more
of an experience rather than just uh all about getting a photo.
That is definitely one thing that I care a lot about.
And I think it comes down to connection and to listen and to hear what your
(33:38):
clients want, need, type of person they are.
And just connect with that without losing yourself as an artist.
Because it's not a matter of just doing whatever the client wants.
Because there is this is a collaboration and the best
of collaboration is like when we meet they say
(33:59):
what they want and what they're coming from and and i've
had clients talking about their journey if
they've been through something awful or some trauma and
then they come out and when they want to celebrate this with images
then boom we have that connection and i
need to tap into what can make them
really enjoy this experience yeah and then
(34:21):
you have some people that is like a tough cookie and she's like yeah
i just got divorced i'm feeling hot you know i'm in the best shape
i am and i'm just gonna rock this i'm gonna
make some sexy pictures then you in that and then i i connect with
that mode uh-huh so uh that mood
and i'll just go with that and we have fun and we upbeat we play some rock and
roll music in the studio and then other times you need to be soothing yeah and
(34:44):
so i think i am pretty adaptable in my personality to whoever is in the room
and make sure I connect with them on whatever level they're at.
And then I'll create something that we both have agreed on. This is what they want to aim for.
So the professionalism is there, but also the personal connection and just...
(35:08):
Yesterday? Yeah, I think. So what day is it today? Yesterday,
I had a very beautiful experience.
We both were crying, literally, both at the reveal and in the beginning of the
session, because I did a really tight, it was a personal branding business headshots,
where she needed multiple images.
And when I do this, I have a consultation first, and then they come in,
(35:31):
I have a hair and makeup artist.
And we, you know, make them feel beautiful, and we make sure they're happy.
And then we have several different clothing changes.
And then I do a boom, straight, raw, out-of-the-camera reveal session and ordering session.
And when she had decided on her final images, and I've already done the consultation
(35:52):
where I looked at her website and we planned this to suit her business needs.
And when she had decided on that final image, and I said, this is so beautiful.
And she was like, this is going to be perfect for this and this page when I talk about this.
And I can feel tears. And I go, you know what? This is my why.
(36:14):
This is why. Because this is not going to make me famous.
I'm not going to win awards on these images. But I see somebody sitting there being so happy.
And she was quite insecure because she's gained a lot of weight.
And she wasn't really in a place where she was like, don't worry about it.
I'll make sure you look the best, fabulous you, whatever. And she sat there
and she goes, you made me feel so comfortable.
(36:36):
You made me feel really beautiful today. And these are going to be magic for
my website. I'm so happy I took this decision.
Tears in my eyes, tears in her eyes. And I go, this is it. This is what, why I do this.
No awards, no fame, you know.
It's just something totally different to that, isn't it? It's a special connection
(36:56):
that you get in that way and knowing that you've made a difference for somebody through doing that.
And I think that sometimes, okay, if you're the sort of person who is entirely
about money and everything you do is all about earning money,
then you might approach it slightly differently.
But But I think that there's really a place for ditching the formula and really
(37:18):
thinking about serving the client, especially when you're working in a very
personal way like this with portrait.
So instead of just saying, oh, yeah, I make it an experience by giving them
a glass of wine and offering them a piece of cake afterwards.
You think, well, I'll do that, you know, on certain, you know,
on certain portraits, we do have a glass of wine and some snacks.
(37:38):
But, you know, there's more to it. That is a thing to offer.
But that is not the experience.
It's the connection with the person around it and it's you serving their needs
as a person when they're coming in needing one particular type of photo or they're
in a different place and they needed a photo to help them come out of that place.
(38:00):
All that sort of thing is far more effective and will get them coming back much
more so than a piece of cake in a glass of wine will.
Yeah absolutely and make sure that we
have and i have a stylist that also are in
tuned with with that can adapt a
little bit to the situation because if if she wasn't as
smart you know and flexible because
(38:23):
she can meet all types of people and i can hear her because
it's not always i'm standing right next to her as she's doing her makeup
and i can hear her how she connects and how
she can change the topics and talk to them she's also a part of
the business and the part part of the experience yeah and many many
times my clients call me or
email me or do an instagram post about
(38:44):
the situation where they mention me
and my stylist you and your stylist yelling made me feel so special and it was
such so much fun to work with the both of you now isn't that beautiful absolutely
yeah we're a team at that time i mean she does only work for me when i have
i bring her on commission, you know, when I have a job.
(39:05):
So, but we're still such a team and people are really enjoying the work,
the experience with us both.
Yeah. Laughing, crying, talking about deep stuff, opening up. Yeah.
You know, if it's, you know, my stylist, her daughter has autism and she has no problem.
I know I have a problem. My daughter has, and you know, and then suddenly you
(39:26):
go deeper than just doing hair and makeup. And that's a part of the experience.
You know, for some people. Yeah, absolutely. It's being able to do the right
thing for the right person, really,
rather than just forcing everybody through the same way of doing it.
I think what I sometimes find disappointing is that people want to find a quick way.
(39:46):
And so you read the word hack around a lot these days.
Have you got the latest photography hack for making your business generate X
thousand pounds a month?
And you think, stop looking for shortcuts and start
connecting you know start finding what
you're passionate about and and connect you know connect with your
clients in that sort of way don't just copy someone else's template all the
(40:09):
time it might work a bit but i know and and i think we're all fighting within
ourselves about this whole social media must and you have to market yourself you have to to do this.
I've been going through a frustrating period that I feel like my engagements,
and I know that it's like that for so many photographers right now,
(40:32):
that the engagement has really gone down so low.
And it's sort of, I'm not saying I'm not going to be on social media.
Yes, I am. I am reaching clients and students and it's out there.
It's a part of my marketing. But I decided a couple of months ago,
a few months ago, that, oh my God, I'm just going to push myself into to networking.
(40:52):
Being out there, talking about my work, bringing me to the table,
not just through a phone, but also be out there.
So I know if I'm out at a business situation where I'm at a company and I meet
somebody and I can sense or whatever they say, what else do you do?
Oh, I'd be like, oh, I do this and I do that. So I'm like a working commercial
(41:16):
for myself. and it has actually generated a bit more right now than the social media has for me.
Because looking at your Instagram, you've got 15,000 followers on there, roughly like that.
And people can sometimes assume, oh, you've got great numbers like that.
Well, you must be getting loads of inquiries through there. Does it generate
(41:37):
a lot of business for you?
It is. Like I said, I think it goes in waves. Yeah.
A year ago, last spring, I was fully booked. I had about two,
sometimes three, fine art portraits a week, almost burnt out.
I mean, it was just so crazy. It was because I had a campaign going and I was
(41:57):
posting it on social media and it blew up.
I did not do a lot of advertisement, but it was just giving me fully booked.
Now the whole economy changed it. I mean, we all know that 2023 was so weird.
And this fall, that kind of line of income, just like, and I'll go,
hello, hello, where did everybody go?
(42:21):
So, and I try to post and I try to do campaigns and it didn't bite.
So I was like, what am I doing wrong? And I knew my product was solid and good.
And I know I'm not, I'm not a budget, you know, deal, but I'm not, it's not like crazy.
It's not like buying a car or anything. No. So I just had to switch my focus
(42:42):
and go into what else can I offer and start pushing my headshots and my business
and just being flexible like that.
And like I said, choosing where online I started pushing it.
I'm still keeping up with the final portrait.
And I think it's just, like I said, it's going to go in waves.
And that particular client group right now is struggling.
(43:03):
Yeah. They are struggling with their finances, but there are still other groups
out there that can afford to invest in me.
And so now I'm pushing towards that goal. And so I think a part of staying in
business is being flexible.
(43:24):
Absolutely. I think people can look at you and they can see that you've been
very focused to get where you are with the sort of level of your work.
Look, but you're not focused to the point that you're not flexible.
You've got both in there. You've got that focus that enables you to achieve
excellence, but you've got the flexibility that enables your business to survive
the peaks and the troughs, to go with the weather of the business,
(43:48):
if you like, of the economy.
And you need a little bit of both, don't you?
That kind of resilience and persistence, but at the same time thinking,
okay, there's no point banging my head against a brick wall here.
We need to just shift direction.
Right. Right. And like, I've been in business for 27 years.
I'm an oldie in this business. And,
(44:09):
I've been through a lot of things in business, and I also never had only one niche.
Because going back to that on the routines thing.
So I've always had a corporate side of portraits, and then I had the private side of portraits.
And they have been working beautifully combined.
(44:30):
And right now, the way that life is in the world economics, that the business
side right now, it's more profitable for me.
To you know jump in i still have a
few portrait clients coming in doing finer portraits it's not
as much and i am
not gonna lower my prices to suit
(44:50):
the economy for that type of images i'm
doing because i know that they are worthy of
the price tag that's on it so i'm just
waiting for the clients to find me or
pushing that out you know in social media that's not
where my heaviest attention is right now it's
still there but i'm spending my time and
(45:12):
money to push for the head shots and
the and the personal branding part of my business which
i enjoy so much like i said the client i had yesterday it was such a beautiful
you know shoot yeah i think there's you know there's another important lesson
there for people who are thinking of moving more towards a higher end business
rather than a budget one is high-end businesses if you think of sports cars
(45:34):
and things things like that.
If there's a little dip in the economy, they don't suddenly rush to do their
cars at half price or something.
But so many photographers, it's like, oh, I'm losing the number of customers
I've got at the moment. I better do a deal.
And that can actually end up lowering the perceived value of what you're doing
rather than pivoting and offering a slightly different product instead,
(45:58):
something which can be done cheaper because it's a different product,
because it doesn't entail all the things that the other one does.
So, yeah, rather than going, oh, panic, quick, let's have a 30% off sale or something.
We all feel the panic, though. I have to say that. I'm not saying that I'm above
feeling the panic. Oh, my God.
There's so many emotions going on and you feel worthless and useless and you
(46:21):
have no confidence. You're like, what's wrong with me?
And then you go, wait a minute. And then you just like snap out of it.
What can I do? and just like you said offering something different so I've been
talking about this for quite some time right now but I like comparing it to the,
designer brand let's take Ralph Lauren which is a big designer brand and cost a lot and,
(46:44):
But, you know, they have their Lauren by Ralph Lauren, which is mid-range,
still a little bit of an investment.
But, I mean, I have a purse from Lauren by Ralph Lauren. You know,
I can afford it if I want to invest a little bit in a nice purse.
So, that's what I thought, you know. And so, that's what I've done,
(47:04):
keeping my prices for my fine art portraits, that experience.
But if you want to do portraits, you can do a classic portrait,
which I always offer it. but now I'm pushing it a little bit more.
So you do a classical portrait. And if you're interested in the fine art look,
we can still talk about the clothing you wear, how I light it,
what kind of background I have.
And then if you want me to do the fine art editing, I just upsell that a little
(47:29):
bit when it comes to the boxes.
Yeah, and again, it's small variations on a skill set where you're already very strong.
Sometimes people think, oh, my portrait studio is not doing so great. What shall I do?
Oh, products. products and you think but that's a
totally different thing you know it's like
i'll jump from products as oh that's not doing so well oh what shall i do oh
(47:51):
weddings you know it's oh yeah you know people jump a long way sometimes you
only need to just move a small distance and just slightly tweak it tweak it
a little bit and see and and find new ways of how you market,
like I said I've been the networking thing I mean I always I've been,
(48:12):
love to talk about my photography, but I have to say that I've been kind of
comfortable staying home at night, not going out there whenever I had an invitation
going now I'm a little bit more on my toes and I go, sure, I'll be there.
And I come, I show up and I'm, I'm having my business hat on and I go,
Hey, what do you do? Well, you know, and then I boom.
(48:32):
And so that was for me a shift of mindset and how I market.
Yes. I'm still on Instagram. Yes. I'm on LinkedIn and I'm
on Facebook book but the networking thing has now
for me grown much more than it had a
year a year and a half ago yeah it's finding the right channels and these things
do change trends change people might be with one form of social media for a
(48:57):
few years and then the trend changes and they go somewhere else and it's understanding
where your your client base are as well isn't it because,
you're likely to be drawing from people who are within a reasonably easy reach
of your studio you know, in the mail.
You might have some people who will travel a long way, but you're not going
to expect the majority of your clients to be coming a big distance.
(49:20):
So whereas if you're doing something like I do with products,
a lot of the time I don't even see the client face-to-face at all. Right.
I get products sent in the post, you know. Oh, there you go.
Quite often. So I don't advertise or network
so much locally because with the small businesses I'm
(49:41):
not really the right solution for them right you know so
I'm looking at advertising more broadly and further
around the UK and also for people from outside the
UK because that's my
market and I think as well people when you're thinking about what channels you're
going to use when you do social media you cannot do all of them it's just too
much yeah you can't go to all of the networking meetings that are around and
(50:06):
so on and so forth It's choosing ones where you connect with it.
It's choosing ones where you can express your business, your personality to others, I think.
Absolutely. And for me, like last spring when I was so booked with my final
portals, I did actually have people coming long way. Yeah.
(50:27):
It's sweet and long way. It's like five hours drive. That's a long way for us.
But that has also gone down a little bit right now.
So me shifting a little bit on how I do things.
One of the things that I just, before I went to Vegas, lifted it in social media,
but I haven't pushed it through.
I need to be more consistent when I come up with some new ideas.
(50:49):
Sometimes I go, oh, this is a great new idea.
Then I post about it once and I go, and I don't get the engagement I think I deserve.
And then i go oh it didn't work and just
the other day i was i was listening to some marketing tips and.
I go you need to be consistent i go hmm yeah not.
So good at that no that that's that's something
(51:10):
i need to so i'm going to push out that i can actually go to
my clients but i'm going to make that super exclusive
and they're going to have to buy a package that is quite an
investment investment but there is still people who would
might jump onto that yeah and i'm
willing to give it a try because if i get that amount
of investment i don't mind getting in my car
(51:32):
and take a day or so on driving you know
back and forth whatever go up one day shoot one
day and then stay over and go back that's fine that'd
be a part of the investment and and just
to meet those those possible clients
that are that has the money these
days and that also you know are
(51:55):
interested and values what i do yeah exactly
i mean i had somebody see that i'd done a photo shoot
for like a luxury self-catering windmill
a holiday home and they they were doing up a
windmill themselves in a different part of the country and they and
it was like that we know know we drove over there we stayed we
we did a shoot over the over a couple of days and then and then
(52:17):
came back you know so it's uh it's sometimes
clients want to do that they want they want to travel they want what you've
got yeah yeah oh yeah i usually i used to sell them the experience that they
can come to my house and we have a like a michelin star restaurant in our town.
And i was like oh have you heard about this restaurant this hotel and i go no
(52:37):
And I go, yeah, you can make it a weekend. You can stay over.
And some people just actually get into that. Now, you're going to have to follow
me because I forgot to take my plug.
Oh, you're running out of batteries. I'm running out of batteries.
So join me for a tour in the house.
Like once again, how we are not perfect. Sorry.
(52:58):
No, that's fine.
When you were talking about with Instagram or other social media,
you when you post an image on there and you don't get that kind of response
you you have that enthusiasm you think i've got a great idea or i've got a great
image and you put it out there and you you're going through the feed to see
if you've got any any likes or whatever and next to it somebody's posted an
(53:19):
image of their cat and there's like 100 likes on there and people go oh this
is amazing this is fantastic and you've got like three and you go,
why did why did i bother yeah but yes it is that
that consistency and i think there's also
the there is also the fact that people do get
kind of used to seeing the sort of things that
(53:40):
we produce and they're not always going to be quite so
engaged as we'd like them to be because it's like oh yeah yeah yeah we know
she does that or we know he does that kind of thing people don't always click
the button unfortunately and as a as a professional photographer when you see
some of the pictures that get shared and likes and everything on there you can say it's not fair.
(54:03):
I know um and and i
think it's so important that you do not compare yourself too much to others
because it's always going to be somebody who does it like we say better or more
successful but if you can just look at your own stuff and it's hard it doesn't
come naturally because naturally we do compare ourselves but i think if you're
(54:24):
conscious about that behavior behavior,
that it's going to make you a little bit happier as a person if you do not engage
in, oh my gosh, she's doing this.
And just look at other people's stuff and get inspired.
It goes, oh, you know, that's a cool way to do it.
Maybe I can implement, but not comparing to where as you put yourself down,
(54:45):
it is, I think way too many people do that.
Absolutely. Yeah. If you hang your self-esteem on these things and things like social media,
it can be very bad for your mental health and
you can keep going back thinking have I had another like
yet and that's not a good place
to be no no that that sort
of thing doesn't help you to run a business well you do the the social media
(55:08):
because it's part of your marketing sure that you that's fine but if you start
to get too connected to it with your own feelings of self-worth and you're on
a slippery pre-slope i think then yeah yeah yeah that's that's not good for
anyone no no absolutely not.
So i mean when you're when you're doing your training that you've got sort of um,
(55:29):
training other photographers and you're doing online and in person,
aren't you, I think? So you do some classes online.
So what have you got coming up in the next sort of few months that you could
tell people about where they might be able to either meet you for a one personal
training or see you online? What sort of things have you got coming up?
(55:50):
Well, I have, like I mentioned, there is a workshop in Finland.
If you're anywhere close to Finland next month, connect with me on social media.
That works great in that area.
And that is a fine art workshop. So it's going to be a full day,
models, shooting and editing, fun, fun day.
(56:11):
And then I have in Oslo in Norway, in the middle of May, there is going to be at a big camera store.
I've been visiting them before together with Canon.
And we will do a three-hour workshop first, and then we will do a lecture like
in the evening. So that's two live ones. Oh, oh no.
(56:32):
I also have with my friend, like I mentioned, you know, we have at the castle at the end of May.
So we're going to have like a two day workshop where we stay and live.
It's not the castle this time. It's like a mansion.
Only a mansion, not a castle. Yeah, we skipped the castle this year.
This is a beautiful place and we're going to be hanging out and we have a couple
(56:53):
of spots still available for that one.
And that's amazing. If we get international people coming, we will do it in English.
If we're on Swedes, we're doing it in Swedish. So we are totally flexible that
way. We always said that.
And so those are the two closest ones. I'm also coming to Coventry for the Click Live in June.
So those are the live speaking engagements that are planned.
(57:16):
I don't think I can squeeze any more in there now.
There should be plenty to handle. I'll keep you busy, yeah.
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And then online, I do not have anything planned
right now as far as group classes.
I just finished on Wednesday, I had an editing class.
And other than that, it might pop up something new. I'm not sure.
(57:37):
But if there's anybody out there who actually wants a one-to-one, I do that quite often.
And it's really cool because we do customize that to whatever need people have.
And sometimes I edit my stuff just to get them hooked on the basics and inspired.
But I also have more evolved photographers that wants me to take their images
(58:00):
and I work on them. And I tell them, this is what I would do with this image
and so on. And that's pretty awesome.
Yeah. I can do one-on-one workshops in the studio.
I had this Swedish photographer, amazing woman. She lives in Montana,
but she has family a couple hours away from me where I live.
So last year and a half ago, she was on vacationing in Sweden and she called
(58:23):
me up and we set up her on a one-to-one day workshop.
All about her, bringing in models. She told me what she wanted to learn more
about. We had a business part of it, price list part of it.
And then we did the shooting and editing. I was just so great.
So all of that, I'm always open to listen in and hear what people need.
(58:44):
And then we'll talk what kind of package we can make.
Excellent. Yeah. You know, one thing I quite often like to ask my guests is
if they could photograph anywhere or anyone and what would it be?
But it sounds like you've already got some dream locations for those castles
and mansions, you know, sounds like you've done it already.
I don't know. Sometimes locations can be intimidating too.
(59:05):
I have to say that there's one castle we've been a couple of years and it's
like the interior is quite challenging.
It's kind of those dark castles where you'd be like, where am I going to get
that kind of feeling? So locations, I'm not so sure.
More like sometimes when you see these on Instagram, these abandoned buildings. Oh, yeah.
(59:27):
They are covered like with greenery and those get my juices flowing.
You know, it's like, wow.
And for as far as people goes...
Oh, it's kind of hard. I'm a big fan of Dolly Parton. That would be great to
do a fine art shoot with Dolly Parton.
Dolly Parton in an abandoned warehouse. There you go. Yeah.
(59:49):
With a fine art kind of a feel, like a different type of outfit and making her
like a painting. That would be cool.
That would be quite a project, wouldn't it? Yeah, I know. Excellent.
So when's that happening then? Yeah, I know. Just got to find her people to
talk to my people and then we'll work it out. Excellent. Yeah.
So where can people keep up with your work and keep an eye out for the Dolly
(01:00:13):
Parton photo? There you go.
Well, I am, I'm on Instagram and it's Martina underline Wärenfeldt with a W and
I'm on LinkedIn, Martina Wärenfeldt.
Facebook is mostly Swedish, but it's the same there.
Martina Wärenfeldt. I think it's actually my studio name on there, M Studio.
(01:00:33):
But if you go for, since my last name is so not very common,
if you go searching for Martina Warenfeld and if you put two dots over the A,
you will definitely find a lot of places.
I kept the two dots when I rebuilt my logo because I figure if Häagen-Dazs can, so can I. Absolutely.
(01:00:57):
Lovely comparison there, I think. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Häagen-Dazs keep their
two dots over the A. So is Martina Wärenfeldt
Brilliant. Love it. Thank you very much for being a guest on the podcast today,
Martina. We've really appreciated having you on.
It's been so much fun, Joe. I really, I'm so happy you asked and I'm just glad to be here.
(01:01:19):
Thank you very much. And thank you all for listening to the Focused Professional Podcast.
Music.
Welcome to the Focused Professional Podcast. This is Episode 10, and I'm Joe Lenton.
Music.
(00:30):
Welcome to the Focused Professional Podcast. Today we're with Martina Warenfeld. Hello Martina. Hello.
And Martina I'm sure you've heard of. She is well known for taking home plenty
of trophies, filling up her shelves with lots of pretty objects,
glass objects and other objects that celebrate her many successes.
(00:51):
She's also a very well known and celebrated trainer in photography,
known particularly for her fine art portraiture.
So we're thrilled to have you on today, Martina. Thank you for coming on.
Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here. Like I mentioned to you earlier,
you know, don't want to turn down any possibility that we have to talk about our passion.
(01:13):
Quite, yeah. We're all nerds at heart, really, photographers.
Absolutely. So you've just come back from Vegas, and of course,
with a few more pretty things to put on the mantelpiece.
So tell us a little bit about that. What did you win in Vegas?
Well, Vegas was a big surprise this year. It was pretty cool.
I came there quite relaxed. So this is the first time that I actually had speaking engagements.
(01:36):
And that's been a goal of mine, an internal, especially internal goal that I
was like dreamt of being one of those speakers.
Because when I came there many years ago, for the first time,
I didn't know anybody. I didn't know the industry that well.
And I was just utterly alone walking down the hallways, taking classes from
big names and getting to know the industry and also started my competition. Thank you.
(01:59):
In Vegas, the whole route of competing.
So WPPI has a very, very special place in my heart.
I've got lots of longtime friends coming from going over there.
So this year, I was so focused on my speaking engagements and I was so thrilled.
(02:21):
And also when I entered the competition because
they redid the whole competition for this
year yeah they've been going through some reorganization and
when I entered it in October I've had
some personal issues it was I was not
in a good space and I was really not
feeling encouraged and I was like oh yeah well
(02:43):
I cannot not enter so I got
to throw something in there and and I pulled a couple
of you know things that i believed in and i
made it to the finals with two images one was
quite strong the other one okay not so
much but the one that was strong i
still i because i've been competing with that image a couple of times before
(03:08):
okay yeah throughout the year both in sweden and in london and it got well received
yes but i listened in to it's not one of those Because I've had other images
where judges rave about it.
And this one has been sort of like hit and miss.
You know, people go, yeah, it's good, but it doesn't really catch on to everybody.
(03:28):
So I was not really confident in that image.
But it was okay, though. So that's what I'm saying was the biggest surprise,
because I was not that...
Nervous or I should say excited I was just
so much more relaxed this time because my focus
was on the speaking engagements and the
training that I was going to do there so when they
(03:50):
came to the award I was like oh it's okay you know I'm happy
I'm glad I'm in the finals that was a big achievement because they
only brought 10 top 10 in each category
made it to the final so I was quite happy with
that and I told my friend before the awards night I think I might
have a chance at third place that might be possible you
know and if i get a third place in vegas i am happy
(04:12):
yeah yeah absolutely so that was
what i said and she goes are you sure because she's been seeing me
compete before god's honest truth you know i
don't even have butterflies so and i saw the
other images in that category and it was just they were
really good so when we get to the awards night i achieved my
double master's degree in vegas and
(04:32):
before we haven't really been called up on
stage for that but now they have made trophies for
the double masters excellent so we get caught yeah hopefully
a nice big one yeah it was a nice big one good and i had the opportunity to
to walk on stage with my dear friend and colleague sarah edmunds and we got
up there together hand in hand it was this beautiful moment and we got our trophies
(04:56):
and i told her i says yay this is my My only shot of being on stage this night,
because in Vegas.
Only the first place winners go on stage.
You get a trophy for second and third, but you don't get on stage until you're in first place.
And I only had a first place win in Vegas one time before. And that was 2019.
(05:17):
So they don't come around easy.
And so I'm happy that I got this double master trophy.
And I was like, yeah, I'm bringing home a trophy.
That was like the biggest thing for me. And then the category came on. It was maternity.
And the category came on. And I sat there.
(05:38):
And the third place came up. And that was one of my favorites.
And then second place came on, and that was the favorite I had for that category.
I thought I was going to win the whole thing.
So I was sitting there filming it because I was hoping for third place, right?
And then when that came up, I was about to take my camera down and literally
reach over to grab my drink because I was done in my head.
And then they said, and the winner is Martina Warenfeldt. And I go, what?
(06:03):
That was my first result. I go, what?
No. So I said, I was shaking my head all the way up to the stage.
I go, no, no, no. Somebody counted this wrong.
It was the weirdest feeling because, you know, entering so many competitions
for so many years, you still have that butterfly.
You still have that excitement. You still get, oh, but this year I was like,
(06:27):
nah, nah, it's not going to happen.
So, oh, the shock was, it was so
much fun. The shock was so much fun to experience that you'd be like, oh.
That's even better, I think, when it's like that, rather than when you're sort
of on the edge of your seat all the time wondering, have I got it?
Thinking, this is a good one.
This is going to actually make
it, you know, and then you get disappointed. But no, this was a blast.
(06:50):
Emotions, I felt, was a blast. I imagine. Really excited. Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, is this, when you enter the competitions like this, is this something
that you do because you enjoy that buzz of winning?
Is it something you do to help your business? Is it something for yourself to
kind of get a feeling for how you're measuring up?
What makes you enter these kind of competitions?
(07:11):
What a good question, because there has been a journey of reasons, actually.
I started out for actually measurements because I wanted to do workshops.
I wanted to do training. Yeah.
And before I started that, I wanted to sort of measure because I wasn't involved
in the big photography communities, the national ones, the international ones.
(07:31):
I was just a little, you know, businesswoman, done it for many years,
had happy clients down here in my city, and I was happy.
But I was like, okay, so if I'm going to go out on a national scale,
teaching people about portraiture, how good am I?
You know, do I measure up? So that's when I entered the first time in the Swedish
nationals. And I did so good, so good that year. I was shocked myself.
(07:56):
And then I dared to enter into WPPI the next following year.
And I had a few prints hanging in the gallery. So that's how I got started.
And it was definitely a buzz. It was definitely an ego thing in the beginning
to go, yay, I'm doing something great.
And on a personal note, at the same time, we have had some really difficult times.
(08:21):
And it's not hard to draw the line between me excelling in my craft as the rest
of my life was sort of in turmoil. oil.
So because I was really happy at work, and I was sort of feeling successful.
And I just like jumped, it was like my therapy. Yeah, yeah.
(08:44):
So that's why I think it would just connected with me so hard in the beginning,
because my life was kind of chaotic at that time.
So I felt happy and relaxed and successful in that area. So that's why I continued.
And then I realized that this This could be a path.
(09:04):
To doing more international workshops because I was already teaching locally
and nationally at that time, a couple of years I went by and I did Norway and
Finland and stuff like that. But I was like, I love to travel.
I love to see new cultures and meet people.
And I love to talk about, like I
said in the beginning, the passion about photography and the portraiture.
(09:26):
And I do bore my clients to death sometimes because I want to tell them why
I'm doing this and how I'm thinking.
And they're like yeah whatever so for
me to to have students who
are interested it's it's happiness for
me so i i decided that or i
(09:47):
contemplated that winning awards will
get my name out there yeah and so i can
have an international audience so so
people will be hey you're good at what you do you want
want to come here and talk and so the last
few years it's been a career yeah thing still
excited though oh yeah i mean i'm still getting nervous and
(10:09):
i still get the buzz so so it's a win-win but it
has been a conscious choice to enter
to build upon my sort of
competition degree and and having
that being the name pushed out so now it's working so now
i am you know gathering interviewing international
students for online courses and talking about
(10:30):
maybe like just the other day i had
an editing course online and this girl
in romania missed the appointment but we recorded it so she's gonna get it so
i talked to her on the phone and i said i'm so sorry you missed it it was a
misunderstanding and then she was like i'm from romania well i never been to
romania and then we start talking and she goes oh my god i have several friend
(10:52):
photographers who actually follows you as well.
And maybe you want to come to Romania and do a workshop. What do you need?
And I go, cool. I would love to.
And then boom, that wheel is spinning. So it's working, you know?
That's great. And I love that part.
Yeah. It's interesting how our careers can evolve like that.
And sometimes in directions that we try to engineer, and then sometimes in directions
(11:13):
we had no idea about what was going to happen. Yep. Yep.
It's quite bizarre, isn't it? It's bizarre and that's one thing that really
clicks with my personality. I hate routine.
I sympathize with you there. Absolutely. Oh, gosh. I just want the variety.
I want the excitement, the challenges.
And not all the time. I don't mind sometimes just going to work and just do normal stuff as well.
(11:39):
But I think it keeps me interested and it keeps me passionate and it just keeps me happier.
Yeah, I mean, you seem to have a real passion both for your sort of portrait
work that you do for clients, but also for the teaching as well.
So you're passionate about passing on your knowledge and your enthusiasm for the subject as well.
(12:01):
Well is that have you always sort of thought that you'd
like to to go into teaching have you always had an urge to kind
of share what you learn are you somebody who naturally
when you get interested in something you want to tell people about it is
that how you got into teaching or i just like to
tell people what to do i see so it's either you pose like that stand like that
(12:22):
or no stick your camera here put the lights there yep okay pure bossiness fair
enough pure bossiness um i i I don't know.
I never thought of myself. I wasn't a good student, for example. I was a bit obstinate.
I was a bit, you know, rules are made to be broken kind of a student.
(12:45):
What happens if someone does that in one of your workshops then?
Can you cope with that? I encourage it. Excellent. I encourage it. Yes.
I tell them all the time. I think my father was sort of a natural,
I wouldn't say leader, but he was like always, if
he got involved in something then he was invited into
the board and then suddenly he was that chairman you know because
(13:05):
he was engaging yeah as a person and
i think that is one of the things i i inherit from him i'm engaging as a person
i am engaging with my clients and i am engaging with trainees and and like i
said i'm passionate at what i do and i enjoy to see that That little light bulb
(13:27):
goes off. And I've taken a lot of courses.
And sometimes I've sat in with huge star photographers and very talented and very good craftsmen.
But then I've also been overwhelmed because it's so technical and they've been so perfect, so to speak.
(13:47):
So you sort of get intimidated and you feel insecure and you lose a little bit
of self-confidence sometimes when you go to classes.
So what I think that I really enjoy doing is just bringing some.
Losing some of their pretentiousness and just giving them my horror stories
(14:08):
about me screwing up and I'm just showing that everything we can fail at this.
And I'm just, I'm not even, I'm not even good at technical terms,
you know? So I'll be literally like, you know, that little button that sort
of turns the system, you know, that comes out, that's the one you're going to use.
And they look at me and go, oh, thank God, another one like me, you know?
(14:28):
And sometimes I I have a colleague of mine here in Sweden, and she lives just outside the city.
And this is the third year in a row we are doing a combined workshop for a couple of days. Okay.
And she does a lot of fairy tale kind of portraits out in the forest. And I do my fine art.
We're usually at a castle or we rent like a mansion.
(14:50):
Nice. And I do my fine art portraits inside. And then the group goes outside
with her in the woods, in the forest. So it's a perfect combination.
But she's so technical. because she's so good at all the words and the right terms.
So when I'm standing there having my lecture and I look at her and I go,
Maria, the, she goes, the name is blah, blah, blah. And I go, thank you, Maria.
(15:12):
And, and I kind of. A walking textbook for you.
It is. And I'm doing my Photoshop and I'm going, uh, I keep forgetting.
I just did it the other night.
I keep forgetting. Oh yeah, that's right. This is, see, I already forgot it.
I don't even remember what that was. the little band-aid oh yeah the healing
brush yeah thank you that's one i always forget.
(15:36):
And i have to sort of hover over it
with my first healing brush tool healing brush
and i think that and what i enjoy about teaching is when i can see people looking
at me going oh my god that's so funny you're like me and i've had had a couple
of those throughout the years when I realized that those big photographer names aren't perfect.
(16:01):
And that gave me the confidence and the courage to go out there and tell people I'm not perfect.
Yeah, I can do this really well. Absolutely. And I think it's giving people
the courage to try things in workshops as well.
I mean, when I started doing some group workshops myself,
(16:22):
I had people coming who were used to going to very big workshops,
lots and lots of people where the person would essentially set something up
and then everybody else would join a queue, go through, take a photo and sit down.
And that was basically it. So I said to them, right, OK, I'm going to show you
this. So I would demonstrate the lighting.
And then I was really mean. I changed all the settings and all the lights.
(16:45):
I moved the lights around the room.
And I said, right, now it's your turn.
What a great way to learn, though. It's like, oh, I was like,
you have been paying attention, haven't you?
Yeah, oh, my goodness. That's kind of evil, but good.
And that way i knew when they
left that they could actually do it not
(17:08):
just have a picture of it on their camera going oh yeah i took a picture with
so-and-so's lighting set up and people are not used to working like that they're
not used to instructors necessarily really challenging them i mean you get some
great instructors at some international conventions but But all too often on
sort of the smaller local levels,
it's just someone who's got something to vaguely work and then they just show
(17:32):
everyone else and they repeat it and that's it. Yeah. Yeah.
That's a good way to do it. I might steal that method a little bit, Joe. Yeah.
I have an upcoming workshop in in both
finland and oslo and i'm
for example norway i've been going
to once or twice a year for many years now
(17:53):
i love to go to norway i have a lot of friends in norway they're
photographers and just enjoy coming over there
but it also puts the pressure on me to come up with
something new yeah because i do not want to go over there
once or twice a year and repeat myself so no there's
like oh you want to come over here and do a little workshop like we with you last year go
sure oh gosh what am i going to talk about what i'm going to
talk about how i'm going to do this differently yeah yeah absolutely yeah
(18:16):
that could be get them to do element get them
to do some of the work like that yeah that'll that will
appeal to your slightly naughty side i think that you'll enjoy
you'll enjoy that thank you for
giving me that tip even if it's just
as you walk away you turn the power down or something and don't
tell them you've done it they take a photo and go oh that
(18:36):
doesn't look right that kind of problem solving i
think is is how people learn much more effectively than
just okay if i'm going to do this picture i need
to be at this setting on my camera this light goes to that
setting i need that size an umbrella with that kind of
yeah you know it's so formulaic then and.
You think if you can understand light you can
(18:57):
understand the principles you you can
take great photos with all sorts of things yeah it
doesn't have to be the latest and the greatest stuff so which
is which is excellent for me to think about i
really really appreciate you mentioned this right now because
i do tend to feel like i want to add something to it because i'm most like you
(19:19):
said in the beginning i'm mostly known for my fine art portraiture yeah and
they want me to talk about artistic portraits and how many ways can i go through
this you know I want to add some more elements,
which is good because I keep challenging myself to do something different.
But it's also when it comes to workshops.
(19:42):
Not just talk about colors and props and hand holdings and hand posing,
which is my expertise, but also bringing in another level of understanding,
like you said, about the light and stuff.
So good. Very good. I think if people can work stuff out, I think that it stays with them for longer.
You know, it involves a bit more of the brain than just the kind of watch and repeat.
(20:06):
Feet so it's it can it can feel a bit cruel
to begin with if they especially if they've come in a bit dopey and
haven't paid enough attention so okay what
do i do here
but i mean for me i've got a small
studio so i've had i've come up with ways of creating the lighting that i want
(20:26):
without having the space and the kind of modifiers all the time that i that
i want to be able to use So I've got sort of big white sheets of foam core board
that I use in place of another light source because I haven't got room to put a light there.
So I'll use it, bound some light from another one.
So sometimes one light is doing like three jobs.
(20:46):
You get quite creative that way. You do. You do.
And I didn't have a large studio from the beginning.
So I had very low ceilings and I was not able to photograph large groups.
So I also turned to, you know, learn Photoshop quite early just so I can,
(21:06):
you know, stitch together large groups, you know, whatever.
Did you get them all sitting down to begin with as well, I suppose?
No one's standing up. Not really that low, but yeah, definitely challenged with the lighting.
But we got to start somewhere, you know. Absolutely.
Yeah. And make it work. So, I mean, you've taught in quite a few countries now.
(21:26):
What's your sort of feeling for the the sort of
standard of photography and for how people how much
people want to learn well i think that
the learning the interest of learning is definitely there
wherever you go in the world because people show up to those places because
they want to learn yeah and i think what's interesting is because online right
(21:47):
now we have so many possibilities we there is anything and i go online when
i have a problem or a photoshop thing that i was like like, how do I do that?
And then I go to YouTube, I find tutorials. And that's one way of learning.
And it's out there for anybody.
But I think as a community, or when you're really interested,
(22:08):
when you meet with people, when you're in a setting where you have live body, so to speak,
and you bounce off each other energy and ideas and problems comes up,
just like we just mentioned.
And that just gives it another level of learning and I think that that's still
thriving and it feels like people are still interested in meeting that way. Great.
(22:32):
So that's one part of it and as far as the standard of portraits.
I think it's good. I think the knowledge, once again, is out there and people
are learning and they are interested in it.
Then if you look back to way, way, way before, it's always going to be those
who levels up and those who are happy to.
(22:53):
I mean, I have colleagues in town that hasn't really upped their game in, I would say, 15 years.
There's no changes. They're still making a decent living.
So but for them it's not
the passion to to grow as an
artist yeah it's a bit like they just yeah i mean
you was you know you were saying earlier you get bored with
(23:16):
just doing the same thing just doing the routine and so on and you like to be
that developing yourself i suppose that for some people it's a bit like for
me as a commercial photographer you get some people who love just doing the
same thing over and over and over because they can shoot quite quickly and they
can and make quite a lot of money quite quickly.
That sort of thing I just find so boring.
(23:37):
But that's the personality of a fly. Exactly. So for them, they don't necessarily
always want to keep pushing themselves.
And for others like me, I never feel like I've learned enough.
But it's different. That's wonderful because I try to say that and explain that
sometimes when we are talking about photography that whatever is in you as a
(23:59):
person and your personality is what's going to shape your career.
Yeah. It's, it's, if you find that.
Connection with who you are and how you work, you will be happy.
Because it's not for everybody to find the perfection or go for perfection or
chase it or develop all the time.
(24:21):
Some people come up to this, they learn the basic skills, they get paid for
their, and then they're happy.
And they're not going to win awards. They're not going to be coming that way,
but they do make a a decent living actually enjoying shooting
you know with a camera making portraits people
buying it done yeah and then we have
(24:41):
the other group they're not as sane can't think
who you're talking about that sort
of like i want more more what can
i learn this week yeah absolutely it's got
to be something we can talk about to somebody i don't know maybe
we need therapy yeah maybe we need
(25:01):
therapy so yeah i think i think the levels are just
as it always has been throughout it's like some people
are going to push it and they're going to reach those level and we see that
and we think it's amazing if you go to competitions like
in london for swpp or in vegas
for wppi and you can see the amount of
creativity and the passion that
(25:23):
goes into those competition prints and i am such
a fan of print competition because the
print and the final end is that evidence of the craftsmanship because today
when you have the all the online possibilities some people are amazing at their
(25:43):
instagram work and and they put out and they can be like superstars on instagram.
But if they're going to print that file, it might not look as amazing.
So for me, the completion of the craftsmanship is to actually to be able to make a beautiful print.
That's why I think print competitions and the few that are still around are so important.
(26:06):
Yeah, they have an important role in the industry and helping people to maintain
standards and giving people new ideas and things to aspire to.
And i think it's it's important that
we do maintain those those standards in there i
think there's a lot of tools that we have in photography now
and they just seem to grow by the day what we can use to create
(26:28):
things and there's that little bit of a risk that we potentially get lazy and
think oh i'll just fix it afterwards or oh i'll just so i do that i've become
very good at photoshop because i'm i'm lazy sometimes yeah that there is there
you have to kind of decide where you want to put the work.
Am I going to do it in the studio with the light, moving it two inches to the
(26:51):
left, two inches to the right?
Or am I going to do it in Photoshop with brushes and things like that?
So, you know, it's a choice for your workflow, how you want to be.
But I think sometimes people do rely a bit too much on hoping that they can fix it afterwards.
Oh, of course. And that is definitely one thing
that we really like talking about is get it right in
(27:12):
camera and and the things that you can
miss sometimes could be a strand of hair or whatever that's okay
but the basics of lights
lightning lightning not lightning the lighting
skills and all of that is really needs to be there i think like you said you
know taking care of the standards and and trying to you know have that as a
(27:37):
community professional professional photographers coming up to that standard
just for everybody's sake. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. And we're all offering something more than a customer would be able to just do themselves.
I think, you know, as a professional, that's kind of our role is to be able
to give them something that they can't do themselves, really. Yeah. Yeah. True.
(27:59):
So with your fine arts or portraiture work, you've said before that you were
kind of inspired by paintings, sort of more classical portraiture.
What is it about that that appeals to you? Can you sort of describe why that interests you?
Sure. Well, actually, I wanted to paint when I was younger.
(28:21):
For me, my mom was a very good sketch artist, and she can draw very beautiful pictures.
And I was inspired by her, and I tried to do it, and I can't.
I have no talent in my hand.
Literally, I pretty much suck at it.
And I tried. I'm really good at drawing eyes and horses' heads.
(28:43):
That's it. That's where it stopped.
Okay. So for me, that was a basic interest.
And then I'm just thinking that I always enjoyed beauty.
And it can be literally anything. It can be beauty of a small,
tiny flower in the forest.
It can be beauty of a late night sky. guy i
(29:04):
that something that it's pleasing and
i think i take it to heart it can be
a beautiful person personality wise it can
be a out you know like a face that's
beautiful or hair that's beautiful i tend to stop and tell oh my god your hair
is amazing i just tend to pay attention to the beauty that is around and looking
(29:28):
at old masters paintings i am not fond of those who are They're a little bit more grotesque,
and there are maybe evoking emotions that people go,
oh, this is so strong and powerful, and I go, ugh.
And then I go, I look at this. When you're at these huge museums and you have
the sculptures, Nike, is that in the Louvre?
(29:51):
The big bust with the, I think it's Nike that that statue is called.
But they have made this fabric in marble.
And you make this fabric, it looks like it's flowing. And you stand there going,
it's so beautiful. How did they do that?
Or you get the big paintings and you can see the brushstrokes.
(30:14):
So, yeah, I think it's an awe for the talent of people creating that from what
they had possible for them.
And also, it's just so pleasing. And it's just something that I can just rest in.
So, yeah, I think that's where the inspiration comes from. So you like images
that you feel comfortable sitting with then.
(30:35):
So something dark like a Caravaggio or something like that, not so much your thing?
No, I don't. There's a picture I see in my mind when an old man is like literally
biting some other heads off.
I don't know. That's just the one thing that came up in my mind.
I go, no, no. No, and that's a problem for me sometimes when it comes to competition.
(30:56):
Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, because I talked to a lot of people that some dear
colleagues of mine that are amazing at storytelling.
Like take Hannah Nerrett. Yeah. That is amazing at storytelling.
And Kelly, Kelly Brown. Mm-hmm.
They have that, they can tap into emotions that people, when they see the image, they go, oh, man.
(31:19):
I remember Kelly did an image a few years back that I was like,
why didn't I come up with that?
When she had her, you know, she has boxers and she had one of their dog and
laying on, there's two dog pillows.
And one of her dogs is laying on one pillow, looking over to the other pillow where it was an urn.
An urn. So there was no dog there, it was an urn. And I go, it is such a simple
(31:43):
idea, beautifully executed.
And I go, why can't I find the darkness?
And so, yeah, I feel like I can make pretty pictures, you know, beautiful flowers.
Oh, well, we need some of that. I think, yeah.
(32:03):
I mean, I think my default tends to be towards the darker side, I think.
We need everything. We need everything. We need a bit of both.
And yeah, again, it's coming through your personality.
It's the photography or whatever art form is an extension of yourself.
It's expressing yourself, your own view of something.
So that should be different to somebody else's. It shouldn't be identical.
(32:27):
Yeah, that's true. It's true.
I'm not saying I'm not happy where I'm at. I'm just saying that there is definitely
room for improvement. I just need to dip into my darkness.
Okay fair enough yeah so when you're
shooting you know members of the
public i suppose the darker side doesn't really tend to come into it so
(32:48):
much then they tend to want to look a bit more pretty anyway but yeah so
when you when you're shooting sort of members of the
public for like a fine art portrait uh-huh
you very much talk about on your website about making
it an experience for them and i think that that's
something especially when portrait photographers are starting out that they
can kind of forget that it's not just about the picture you know it's about
(33:10):
more than that so what sort of what sort of things do you suggest that portrait
photographers can do and what sort of things do you like to do to make it more
of an experience rather than just uh all about getting a photo.
That is definitely one thing that I care a lot about.
And I think it comes down to connection and to listen and to hear what your
(33:38):
clients want, need, type of person they are.
And just connect with that without losing yourself as an artist.
Because it's not a matter of just doing whatever the client wants.
Because there is this is a collaboration and the best
of collaboration is like when we meet they say
(33:59):
what they want and what they're coming from and and i've
had clients talking about their journey if
they've been through something awful or some trauma and
then they come out and when they want to celebrate this with images
then boom we have that connection and i
need to tap into what can make them
really enjoy this experience yeah and then
(34:21):
you have some people that is like a tough cookie and she's like yeah
i just got divorced i'm feeling hot you know i'm in the best shape
i am and i'm just gonna rock this i'm gonna
make some sexy pictures then you in that and then i i connect with
that mode uh-huh so uh that mood
and i'll just go with that and we have fun and we upbeat we play some rock and
roll music in the studio and then other times you need to be soothing yeah and
(34:44):
so i think i am pretty adaptable in my personality to whoever is in the room
and make sure I connect with them on whatever level they're at.
And then I'll create something that we both have agreed on. This is what they want to aim for.
So the professionalism is there, but also the personal connection and just...
(35:08):
Yesterday? Yeah, I think. So what day is it today? Yesterday,
I had a very beautiful experience.
We both were crying, literally, both at the reveal and in the beginning of the
session, because I did a really tight, it was a personal branding business headshots,
where she needed multiple images.
And when I do this, I have a consultation first, and then they come in,
(35:31):
I have a hair and makeup artist.
And we, you know, make them feel beautiful, and we make sure they're happy.
And then we have several different clothing changes.
And then I do a boom, straight, raw, out-of-the-camera reveal session and ordering session.
And when she had decided on her final images, and I've already done the consultation
(35:52):
where I looked at her website and we planned this to suit her business needs.
And when she had decided on that final image, and I said, this is so beautiful.
And she was like, this is going to be perfect for this and this page when I talk about this.
And I can feel tears. And I go, you know what? This is my why.
(36:14):
This is why. Because this is not going to make me famous.
I'm not going to win awards on these images. But I see somebody sitting there being so happy.
And she was quite insecure because she's gained a lot of weight.
And she wasn't really in a place where she was like, don't worry about it.
I'll make sure you look the best, fabulous you, whatever. And she sat there
and she goes, you made me feel so comfortable.
(36:36):
You made me feel really beautiful today. And these are going to be magic for
my website. I'm so happy I took this decision.
Tears in my eyes, tears in her eyes. And I go, this is it. This is what, why I do this.
No awards, no fame, you know.
It's just something totally different to that, isn't it? It's a special connection
(36:56):
that you get in that way and knowing that you've made a difference for somebody through doing that.
And I think that sometimes, okay, if you're the sort of person who is entirely
about money and everything you do is all about earning money,
then you might approach it slightly differently.
But But I think that there's really a place for ditching the formula and really
(37:18):
thinking about serving the client, especially when you're working in a very
personal way like this with portrait.
So instead of just saying, oh, yeah, I make it an experience by giving them
a glass of wine and offering them a piece of cake afterwards.
You think, well, I'll do that, you know, on certain, you know,
on certain portraits, we do have a glass of wine and some snacks.
(37:38):
But, you know, there's more to it. That is a thing to offer.
But that is not the experience.
It's the connection with the person around it and it's you serving their needs
as a person when they're coming in needing one particular type of photo or they're
in a different place and they needed a photo to help them come out of that place.
(38:00):
All that sort of thing is far more effective and will get them coming back much
more so than a piece of cake in a glass of wine will.
Yeah absolutely and make sure that we
have and i have a stylist that also are in
tuned with with that can adapt a
little bit to the situation because if if she wasn't as
smart you know and flexible because
(38:23):
she can meet all types of people and i can hear her because
it's not always i'm standing right next to her as she's doing her makeup
and i can hear her how she connects and how
she can change the topics and talk to them she's also a part of
the business and the part part of the experience yeah and many many
times my clients call me or
email me or do an instagram post about
(38:44):
the situation where they mention me
and my stylist you and your stylist yelling made me feel so special and it was
such so much fun to work with the both of you now isn't that beautiful absolutely
yeah we're a team at that time i mean she does only work for me when i have
i bring her on commission, you know, when I have a job.
(39:05):
So, but we're still such a team and people are really enjoying the work,
the experience with us both.
Yeah. Laughing, crying, talking about deep stuff, opening up. Yeah.
You know, if it's, you know, my stylist, her daughter has autism and she has no problem.
I know I have a problem. My daughter has, and you know, and then suddenly you
(39:26):
go deeper than just doing hair and makeup. And that's a part of the experience.
You know, for some people. Yeah, absolutely. It's being able to do the right
thing for the right person, really,
rather than just forcing everybody through the same way of doing it.
I think what I sometimes find disappointing is that people want to find a quick way.
(39:46):
And so you read the word hack around a lot these days.
Have you got the latest photography hack for making your business generate X
thousand pounds a month?
And you think, stop looking for shortcuts and start
connecting you know start finding what
you're passionate about and and connect you know connect with your
clients in that sort of way don't just copy someone else's template all the
(40:09):
time it might work a bit but i know and and i think we're all fighting within
ourselves about this whole social media must and you have to market yourself you have to to do this.
I've been going through a frustrating period that I feel like my engagements,
and I know that it's like that for so many photographers right now,
(40:32):
that the engagement has really gone down so low.
And it's sort of, I'm not saying I'm not going to be on social media.
Yes, I am. I am reaching clients and students and it's out there.
It's a part of my marketing. But I decided a couple of months ago,
a few months ago, that, oh my God, I'm just going to push myself into to networking.
(40:52):
Being out there, talking about my work, bringing me to the table,
not just through a phone, but also be out there.
So I know if I'm out at a business situation where I'm at a company and I meet
somebody and I can sense or whatever they say, what else do you do?
Oh, I'd be like, oh, I do this and I do that. So I'm like a working commercial
(41:16):
for myself. and it has actually generated a bit more right now than the social media has for me.
Because looking at your Instagram, you've got 15,000 followers on there, roughly like that.
And people can sometimes assume, oh, you've got great numbers like that.
Well, you must be getting loads of inquiries through there. Does it generate
(41:37):
a lot of business for you?
It is. Like I said, I think it goes in waves. Yeah.
A year ago, last spring, I was fully booked. I had about two,
sometimes three, fine art portraits a week, almost burnt out.
I mean, it was just so crazy. It was because I had a campaign going and I was
(41:57):
posting it on social media and it blew up.
I did not do a lot of advertisement, but it was just giving me fully booked.
Now the whole economy changed it. I mean, we all know that 2023 was so weird.
And this fall, that kind of line of income, just like, and I'll go,
hello, hello, where did everybody go?
(42:21):
So, and I try to post and I try to do campaigns and it didn't bite.
So I was like, what am I doing wrong? And I knew my product was solid and good.
And I know I'm not, I'm not a budget, you know, deal, but I'm not, it's not like crazy.
It's not like buying a car or anything. No. So I just had to switch my focus
(42:42):
and go into what else can I offer and start pushing my headshots and my business
and just being flexible like that.
And like I said, choosing where online I started pushing it.
I'm still keeping up with the final portrait.
And I think it's just, like I said, it's going to go in waves.
And that particular client group right now is struggling.
(43:03):
Yeah. They are struggling with their finances, but there are still other groups
out there that can afford to invest in me.
And so now I'm pushing towards that goal. And so I think a part of staying in
business is being flexible.
(43:24):
Absolutely. I think people can look at you and they can see that you've been
very focused to get where you are with the sort of level of your work.
Look, but you're not focused to the point that you're not flexible.
You've got both in there. You've got that focus that enables you to achieve
excellence, but you've got the flexibility that enables your business to survive
the peaks and the troughs, to go with the weather of the business,
(43:48):
if you like, of the economy.
And you need a little bit of both, don't you?
That kind of resilience and persistence, but at the same time thinking,
okay, there's no point banging my head against a brick wall here.
We need to just shift direction.
Right. Right. And like, I've been in business for 27 years.
I'm an oldie in this business. And,
(44:09):
I've been through a lot of things in business, and I also never had only one niche.
Because going back to that on the routines thing.
So I've always had a corporate side of portraits, and then I had the private side of portraits.
And they have been working beautifully combined.
(44:30):
And right now, the way that life is in the world economics, that the business
side right now, it's more profitable for me.
To you know jump in i still have a
few portrait clients coming in doing finer portraits it's not
as much and i am
not gonna lower my prices to suit
(44:50):
the economy for that type of images i'm
doing because i know that they are worthy of
the price tag that's on it so i'm just
waiting for the clients to find me or
pushing that out you know in social media that's not
where my heaviest attention is right now it's
still there but i'm spending my time and
(45:12):
money to push for the head shots and
the and the personal branding part of my business which
i enjoy so much like i said the client i had yesterday it was such a beautiful
you know shoot yeah i think there's you know there's another important lesson
there for people who are thinking of moving more towards a higher end business
rather than a budget one is high-end businesses if you think of sports cars
(45:34):
and things things like that.
If there's a little dip in the economy, they don't suddenly rush to do their
cars at half price or something.
But so many photographers, it's like, oh, I'm losing the number of customers
I've got at the moment. I better do a deal.
And that can actually end up lowering the perceived value of what you're doing
rather than pivoting and offering a slightly different product instead,
(45:58):
something which can be done cheaper because it's a different product,
because it doesn't entail all the things that the other one does.
So, yeah, rather than going, oh, panic, quick, let's have a 30% off sale or something.
We all feel the panic, though. I have to say that. I'm not saying that I'm above
feeling the panic. Oh, my God.
There's so many emotions going on and you feel worthless and useless and you
(46:21):
have no confidence. You're like, what's wrong with me?
And then you go, wait a minute. And then you just like snap out of it.
What can I do? and just like you said offering something different so I've been
talking about this for quite some time right now but I like comparing it to the,
designer brand let's take Ralph Lauren which is a big designer brand and cost a lot and,
(46:44):
But, you know, they have their Lauren by Ralph Lauren, which is mid-range,
still a little bit of an investment.
But, I mean, I have a purse from Lauren by Ralph Lauren. You know,
I can afford it if I want to invest a little bit in a nice purse.
So, that's what I thought, you know. And so, that's what I've done,
(47:04):
keeping my prices for my fine art portraits, that experience.
But if you want to do portraits, you can do a classic portrait,
which I always offer it. but now I'm pushing it a little bit more.
So you do a classical portrait. And if you're interested in the fine art look,
we can still talk about the clothing you wear, how I light it,
what kind of background I have.
And then if you want me to do the fine art editing, I just upsell that a little
(47:29):
bit when it comes to the boxes.
Yeah, and again, it's small variations on a skill set where you're already very strong.
Sometimes people think, oh, my portrait studio is not doing so great. What shall I do?
Oh, products. products and you think but that's a
totally different thing you know it's like
i'll jump from products as oh that's not doing so well oh what shall i do oh
(47:51):
weddings you know it's oh yeah you know people jump a long way sometimes you
only need to just move a small distance and just slightly tweak it tweak it
a little bit and see and and find new ways of how you market,
like I said I've been the networking thing I mean I always I've been,
(48:12):
love to talk about my photography, but I have to say that I've been kind of
comfortable staying home at night, not going out there whenever I had an invitation
going now I'm a little bit more on my toes and I go, sure, I'll be there.
And I come, I show up and I'm, I'm having my business hat on and I go,
Hey, what do you do? Well, you know, and then I boom.
(48:32):
And so that was for me a shift of mindset and how I market.
Yes. I'm still on Instagram. Yes. I'm on LinkedIn and I'm
on Facebook book but the networking thing has now
for me grown much more than it had a
year a year and a half ago yeah it's finding the right channels and these things
do change trends change people might be with one form of social media for a
(48:57):
few years and then the trend changes and they go somewhere else and it's understanding
where your your client base are as well isn't it because,
you're likely to be drawing from people who are within a reasonably easy reach
of your studio you know, in the mail.
You might have some people who will travel a long way, but you're not going
to expect the majority of your clients to be coming a big distance.
(49:20):
So whereas if you're doing something like I do with products,
a lot of the time I don't even see the client face-to-face at all. Right.
I get products sent in the post, you know. Oh, there you go.
Quite often. So I don't advertise or network
so much locally because with the small businesses I'm
(49:41):
not really the right solution for them right you know so
I'm looking at advertising more broadly and further
around the UK and also for people from outside the
UK because that's my
market and I think as well people when you're thinking about what channels you're
going to use when you do social media you cannot do all of them it's just too
much yeah you can't go to all of the networking meetings that are around and
(50:06):
so on and so forth It's choosing ones where you connect with it.
It's choosing ones where you can express your business, your personality to others, I think.
Absolutely. And for me, like last spring when I was so booked with my final
portals, I did actually have people coming long way. Yeah.
(50:27):
It's sweet and long way. It's like five hours drive. That's a long way for us.
But that has also gone down a little bit right now.
So me shifting a little bit on how I do things.
One of the things that I just, before I went to Vegas, lifted it in social media,
but I haven't pushed it through.
I need to be more consistent when I come up with some new ideas.
(50:49):
Sometimes I go, oh, this is a great new idea.
Then I post about it once and I go, and I don't get the engagement I think I deserve.
And then i go oh it didn't work and just
the other day i was i was listening to some marketing tips and.
I go you need to be consistent i go hmm yeah not.
So good at that no that that's that's something
(51:10):
i need to so i'm going to push out that i can actually go to
my clients but i'm going to make that super exclusive
and they're going to have to buy a package that is quite an
investment investment but there is still people who would
might jump onto that yeah and i'm
willing to give it a try because if i get that amount
of investment i don't mind getting in my car
(51:32):
and take a day or so on driving you know
back and forth whatever go up one day shoot one
day and then stay over and go back that's fine that'd
be a part of the investment and and just
to meet those those possible clients
that are that has the money these
days and that also you know are
(51:55):
interested and values what i do yeah exactly
i mean i had somebody see that i'd done a photo shoot
for like a luxury self-catering windmill
a holiday home and they they were doing up a
windmill themselves in a different part of the country and they and
it was like that we know know we drove over there we stayed we
we did a shoot over the over a couple of days and then and then
(52:17):
came back you know so it's uh it's sometimes
clients want to do that they want they want to travel they want what you've
got yeah yeah oh yeah i usually i used to sell them the experience that they
can come to my house and we have a like a michelin star restaurant in our town.
And i was like oh have you heard about this restaurant this hotel and i go no
(52:37):
And I go, yeah, you can make it a weekend. You can stay over.
And some people just actually get into that. Now, you're going to have to follow
me because I forgot to take my plug.
Oh, you're running out of batteries. I'm running out of batteries.
So join me for a tour in the house.
Like once again, how we are not perfect. Sorry.
(52:58):
No, that's fine.
When you were talking about with Instagram or other social media,
you when you post an image on there and you don't get that kind of response
you you have that enthusiasm you think i've got a great idea or i've got a great
image and you put it out there and you you're going through the feed to see
if you've got any any likes or whatever and next to it somebody's posted an
(53:19):
image of their cat and there's like 100 likes on there and people go oh this
is amazing this is fantastic and you've got like three and you go,
why did why did i bother yeah but yes it is that
that consistency and i think there's also
the there is also the fact that people do get
kind of used to seeing the sort of things that
(53:40):
we produce and they're not always going to be quite so
engaged as we'd like them to be because it's like oh yeah yeah yeah we know
she does that or we know he does that kind of thing people don't always click
the button unfortunately and as a as a professional photographer when you see
some of the pictures that get shared and likes and everything on there you can say it's not fair.
(54:03):
I know um and and i
think it's so important that you do not compare yourself too much to others
because it's always going to be somebody who does it like we say better or more
successful but if you can just look at your own stuff and it's hard it doesn't
come naturally because naturally we do compare ourselves but i think if you're
(54:24):
conscious about that behavior behavior,
that it's going to make you a little bit happier as a person if you do not engage
in, oh my gosh, she's doing this.
And just look at other people's stuff and get inspired.
It goes, oh, you know, that's a cool way to do it.
Maybe I can implement, but not comparing to where as you put yourself down,
(54:45):
it is, I think way too many people do that.
Absolutely. Yeah. If you hang your self-esteem on these things and things like social media,
it can be very bad for your mental health and
you can keep going back thinking have I had another like
yet and that's not a good place
to be no no that that sort
of thing doesn't help you to run a business well you do the the social media
(55:08):
because it's part of your marketing sure that you that's fine but if you start
to get too connected to it with your own feelings of self-worth and you're on
a slippery pre-slope i think then yeah yeah yeah that's that's not good for
anyone no no absolutely not.
So i mean when you're when you're doing your training that you've got sort of um,
(55:29):
training other photographers and you're doing online and in person,
aren't you, I think? So you do some classes online.
So what have you got coming up in the next sort of few months that you could
tell people about where they might be able to either meet you for a one personal
training or see you online? What sort of things have you got coming up?
(55:50):
Well, I have, like I mentioned, there is a workshop in Finland.
If you're anywhere close to Finland next month, connect with me on social media.
That works great in that area.
And that is a fine art workshop. So it's going to be a full day,
models, shooting and editing, fun, fun day.
(56:11):
And then I have in Oslo in Norway, in the middle of May, there is going to be at a big camera store.
I've been visiting them before together with Canon.
And we will do a three-hour workshop first, and then we will do a lecture like
in the evening. So that's two live ones. Oh, oh no.
(56:32):
I also have with my friend, like I mentioned, you know, we have at the castle at the end of May.
So we're going to have like a two day workshop where we stay and live.
It's not the castle this time. It's like a mansion.
Only a mansion, not a castle. Yeah, we skipped the castle this year.
This is a beautiful place and we're going to be hanging out and we have a couple
(56:53):
of spots still available for that one.
And that's amazing. If we get international people coming, we will do it in English.
If we're on Swedes, we're doing it in Swedish. So we are totally flexible that
way. We always said that.
And so those are the two closest ones. I'm also coming to Coventry for the Click Live in June.
So those are the live speaking engagements that are planned.
(57:16):
I don't think I can squeeze any more in there now.
There should be plenty to handle. I'll keep you busy, yeah.
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And then online, I do not have anything planned
right now as far as group classes.
I just finished on Wednesday, I had an editing class.
And other than that, it might pop up something new. I'm not sure.
(57:37):
But if there's anybody out there who actually wants a one-to-one, I do that quite often.
And it's really cool because we do customize that to whatever need people have.
And sometimes I edit my stuff just to get them hooked on the basics and inspired.
But I also have more evolved photographers that wants me to take their images
(58:00):
and I work on them. And I tell them, this is what I would do with this image
and so on. And that's pretty awesome.
Yeah. I can do one-on-one workshops in the studio.
I had this Swedish photographer, amazing woman. She lives in Montana,
but she has family a couple hours away from me where I live.
So last year and a half ago, she was on vacationing in Sweden and she called
(58:23):
me up and we set up her on a one-to-one day workshop.
All about her, bringing in models. She told me what she wanted to learn more
about. We had a business part of it, price list part of it.
And then we did the shooting and editing. I was just so great.
So all of that, I'm always open to listen in and hear what people need.
(58:44):
And then we'll talk what kind of package we can make.
Excellent. Yeah. You know, one thing I quite often like to ask my guests is
if they could photograph anywhere or anyone and what would it be?
But it sounds like you've already got some dream locations for those castles
and mansions, you know, sounds like you've done it already.
I don't know. Sometimes locations can be intimidating too.
(59:05):
I have to say that there's one castle we've been a couple of years and it's
like the interior is quite challenging.
It's kind of those dark castles where you'd be like, where am I going to get
that kind of feeling? So locations, I'm not so sure.
More like sometimes when you see these on Instagram, these abandoned buildings. Oh, yeah.
(59:27):
They are covered like with greenery and those get my juices flowing.
You know, it's like, wow.
And for as far as people goes...
Oh, it's kind of hard. I'm a big fan of Dolly Parton. That would be great to
do a fine art shoot with Dolly Parton.
Dolly Parton in an abandoned warehouse. There you go. Yeah.
(59:49):
With a fine art kind of a feel, like a different type of outfit and making her
like a painting. That would be cool.
That would be quite a project, wouldn't it? Yeah, I know. Excellent.
So when's that happening then? Yeah, I know. Just got to find her people to
talk to my people and then we'll work it out. Excellent. Yeah.
So where can people keep up with your work and keep an eye out for the Dolly
(01:00:13):
Parton photo? There you go.
Well, I am, I'm on Instagram and it's Martina underline Wärenfeldt with a W and
I'm on LinkedIn, Martina Wärenfeldt.
Facebook is mostly Swedish, but it's the same there.
Martina Wärenfeldt. I think it's actually my studio name on there, M Studio.
(01:00:33):
But if you go for, since my last name is so not very common,
if you go searching for Martina Warenfeld and if you put two dots over the A,
you will definitely find a lot of places.
I kept the two dots when I rebuilt my logo because I figure if Häagen-Dazs can, so can I. Absolutely.
(01:00:57):
Lovely comparison there, I think. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Häagen-Dazs keep their
two dots over the A. So is Martina Wärenfeldt
Brilliant. Love it. Thank you very much for being a guest on the podcast today,
Martina. We've really appreciated having you on.
It's been so much fun, Joe. I really, I'm so happy you asked and I'm just glad to be here.
(01:01:19):
Thank you very much. And thank you all for listening to the Focused Professional Podcast.
Music.
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.