Mastering Multi-Genre Photography with Terry Donnelly

Join host Joe Lenton in episode 15 of the Focused Professional Podcast as he welcomes Terry Donnelly - an award-winning, multi-genre Master Photographer with over 250 international accolades. Hear how he has honed his abilities across a range of genres, avoiding being pigeon-holed into one type of subject.

We compare and contrast the skills and approach needed for sports and architectural photography - 2 of Terry's main genres. Discover how you can get accredited as a professional football and rugby photographer like Terry. He loves his photography and feels privileged to get to chase the perfect moment in Premier League matches, revelling in the fast-paced action. 

Learn about Terry's principles of maintaining high standards, putting clients first, and running a values-based photography business. Listen to him candidly share his thrill of overcoming challenges and his motivation to capture the perfect photograph, despite the anxieties stirred by the notorious imposter syndrome.

Ever wondered what a brand ambassador is and does? As a long-term ambassador for Sony, Rotolight and Fotospeed, Terry shares how it gives him opportunities to come alongside and help people at trade fairs as well as helping to promote the brands.

Terry inspires listeners to use their talent for effecting change and pursuing passion through photography. He also emphasises the value of competitions, awards and self-improvement projects in a photographer's career. He has ambitious goals for his work, not least aiming to achieve the coveted "Photographer of the Year" title with the Society of Photographers. But his aims also go beyond trophies and certificates - he wants to make a significant contribution to red squirrel conservation and the air ambulance service. He helps us realise that photographs can be more than just spectacular images, they can be vehicles for significant societal change.

 

 

Images © Terry Donnelly (used here with permission)

For more of his portfolio please visit Terry's website

Terry's Instagram

 

This episode is sponsored by The Society of Photographers

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the Focused Professional Podcast, sponsored by the Society of Photographers.
I'm your host, Joe Lenton, and this is Episode 15.
Music.

(00:33):
Welcome to the Focused Professional Podcast. Today we have Terry Donnelly with us.
He is a Master Photographer with the Society of Photographers,
a Rotolight Master of Light, a Sony Ambassador.
He's won over 250 international awards and he was a fellow team member for Team
GB for the World Photographic Cup. Great to have you here, Terry.

(00:55):
Hey, great to be here. Nice to see you. Nice to hear from you, Joe.
Yeah, I appreciate you coming on to the podcast and having a little bit of a
chat with us about your photography.
It's always been interesting to talk to you and at the conventions we often
don't get as much time as we might like.
So thank you very much for taking some time out this morning.
You're welcome, Joe. Thank you for inviting me along.

(01:18):
Terry's work I've been keeping an eye on for quite a few years and he seems
to be one of those that can switch genres and still do equally as well,
which is exactly the opposite, kind of, of what I was told when I was starting out.
You know, focus on one thing, get yourself sorted in one genre and just do that.
Don't try and do lots of things. You need to specialise.

(01:40):
So, Terry, how have you made that work?
Well, same as you, Joe. I've always been told, even, you know,
even up to a few years ago, you're okay shooting this, that and the other,
but you've got to focus on one genre to get really good at it.
And I've always resisted it because, to me, it never made sense because there's

(02:02):
such a crossover between genres in terms of skill set.
But surely if you shoot different genres and you're using that crossover skill
set, that's going to give you a better understanding and better knowledge of what you're shooting.
And that's got to roll over into your favourite genre, if you like.

(02:22):
I don't think you need to try to be an expert in all the genres,
but you certainly should be shooting different genres because it will strengthen that skill set.
Yeah, I think I think so as well. And thankfully, your work kind of gave me
that little bit of a inspiration and kind of permission, if you like,
to do that myself, because so many people telling me, oh, no,

(02:42):
you've got to specialise. You've got to pick your thing.
Are you going to do landscapes? Are you going to do this? Are you going to do the other?
And I think that even once you have found perhaps a professional niche,
still shooting those other genres just helps you to keep sharp on your camera
skills, if nothing else.
Yeah, absolutely, 100% agree. And, you know, there's so much of a roll over.
If you're shooting perhaps wildlife, birds in flight, you know,

(03:08):
that rolls over into sport.
You're using long lenses, you're getting a better understanding of shutter speeds
and the effects of shutter speed.
And it does roll over into each other.
But I would caveat that as well, Joe, in that terms that for a working professional.
Although you can shoot different genres, is for marketing reasons
really you should focus in on the the type of

(03:30):
work that you want to attract really so if you're looking for work and you know
the hotel industry or architectural work that's what you should show and if
you think about it if if you spring a leak in your house you know you need a
plumber you're not going to go online and necessarily look for an all-round.
Builder you're going to look for a plumber and i think that's the same photography

(03:53):
so So in terms of attracting the work, what you want to get,
you should show the type of work, what you're wishing to attract.
And that does need to focus down possibly into one genre.
So that's journey caveats. And I think that gets confused really about doing
that and shooting different genres.
Yeah, absolutely. I think for personal projects and to keep your skills sharp,

(04:17):
doing different things can be very helpful.
And most of what I do tends to be product work, but at the same time in the
summertime, I might grab the macro lens and pop out and get some butterflies
and bugs in the garden, you know? Yeah, definitely, definitely.
But if you look at wedding photography, you know, you've got documentary,
portraiture, fine art, you've got creative work, some macro architectural considerations.

(04:39):
If you're shooting big wide shots, landscape considerations,
if you're shooting outside.
And if you look at the likes of, you know, Jenny Giannis, Sanjay,
Scott Johnson, they're all different in the style, but you can see that they
are shooting a multidisciplinary photography.
Yeah. There's so much in there, what they do, once you start really paying attention

(04:59):
to it. And it's the same for sport. You know, it's documentary media.
It can be portraiture. You can be creative. You've got that architectural element as well.
If you're shooting wide pictures inside the stadium, all that skill set comes
in from different genres to combine.
And I think it's very powerful. I think 100% people should really force themselves

(05:21):
to shoot different genres.
Us so what would you say you shoot most of these
days professionally do you
know what job that changes so much i could
have a heavy week of sport and then i could roll on i could have
a heavy week of doing them headshots and you know corporate identity where it
just changes week to week and i couldn't really i couldn't really tell you exactly

(05:43):
what i shoot most of it's very very fluid and it's not a bad thing because if
some work dies off slightly for whatever reason but a change in season.
Changing weather anything can affect the type of work what
i get in usually i can i can
buffer that up and fill that in with other types of work as
well so for me personally that works very well being

(06:06):
able to to work across the different genres yes like
i was talking to martina varenfeld and she of course is known for her fine art
portraiture but she's also sort of diversifying into business headshots and
creating something which is related to her skill set but slightly slightly different
and enables her to go with the ebbs and flows of the market.

(06:27):
So having that extra genre available to you professionally just keeps the income
going, doesn't it really? Yeah, absolutely.
I can't see any reason why a photographer would not want to shoot different genres.
And it's great for learning as well. It's great for personal development and
pushing yourself forward.

(06:48):
Yeah, I'd like just to have a quick chat about a couple of the genres that I know you do.
So sports and architecture which on the face of things you
could look at that and think you couldn't get much more different you
know one tends to be on a tripod slow methodical
and the other one it's you know fast auto focus because architectural work often
is done with tilt shift lenses where of course there is no auto focus and so

(07:11):
the it makes me wonder then do they have a totally separate skill set in your
mind or do you see do you see much overlap between them I suppose,
photography is photography at the end of the day and we have a set standard
of what we're trying to achieve so they need to be technically good we also need to capture,

(07:32):
that wow factor where we can as well so on that basis I think all photography
genres are pretty much similar,
where it differs I suppose is,
in terms of maybe the equipment on the on the the style of image what issues
and so you're quite right sports sport lives advised by shutter speeds whether

(07:53):
you're looking to freeze action,
whether you're looking to blur action you know it's all about the shutter speed of sports.
Yeah and the certain nuances attached to that as well so i suppose you've really
got to understand your sport you've got to be able to anticipate the sport because
a lot of the a lot of the breaks in
play you need to know where they're going so you can get yourself ready to capture

(08:16):
them moments because they are fleeting moments and one if you miss it it's gone you can't replay it.
Architecturally photography is different than that it is more
relaxed you can maybe sit back
and have a little bit more time be a little bit more considered both
genres need a key and eye for detail but you know without
doubt so you've got to understand light properties and also

(08:39):
have the ability to control but i suppose the key difference would
be job but in sporting events
you're very much in an uncontrolled environment and you
have to deal with whatever comes your way in terms of whether
your position you're allocated to shoot the way the sun's shining the direction
of the light whether it's harsh whether you've got no light whether a training

(08:59):
architecturally you can be a little bit more considered and perhaps hopefully
have more of a controlled So you have a place allocated for you when you're in a stadium normally,
you don't get to choose which end you're going or whereabouts you're going to position yourself?
Very much depends on the stadium and also the level of the game.

(09:19):
So, I mean, certainly for European games and Premiership games,
you will be allocated a position.
And it's it's marked out so you when you get there you'll get your badge and i'll have the mark on,
where you go because allocators their slot is but maybe for you know for rugby
league that's slightly different you can go in you can pretty much pick where

(09:42):
you want to go within reason.
And it still needs to be behind the sticks but you
can you know you can move around a bit
more you've got a bit more leeway to select where
you want to sit um but an
architectural photography as well i just think that perhaps
you just need that little bit of more understanding as

(10:02):
you're doing sport where you're anticipating but for architectural photography you
need to be a little bit more aware and pay a little bit more attention
to detail and one of the biggest thing what you
touched on was the abilities to control lens distortion so until
shift lens is always prefer preferable to
um to use for for those type of shoots

(10:22):
you tend to see a lot of people shooting in an architectural way
when you just go for a wide angle and a fit in all type
shot yeah but the distortion towards the
lens that just really gives that away absolutely does
yes yeah you'll see maybe
a one metre door section grow to like it looks like three metres by the time

(10:44):
it's touching the edge of the lens yeah so it's a big thing the tilt shift lenses
are brilliant for controlling that and I'll normally use a tilt shift in those circumstances Yeah,
you certainly wouldn't want them for a sports match.
A bit too slow and awkward for that. But are you a rugby and football fan then?

(11:04):
Is that how you got into doing more of the rugby and the football?
Are those the sports that you keenly follow?
Yeah, I do follow football, quite a lot of football. And certainly Rugby League,
because up north it's Rugby League, down south it's Rugby Union.
So we have a lot of teams up in the north-west in the Midlands, sorry, in Yorkshire.

(11:25):
Yeah, there's a huge concentration around the Bradford Leeds area, isn't there?
There's loads of teams in there, Wigan and so on, and St Helens and yeah.
Yeah, definitely. Well, certainly in the north-west, St Helens,
Wigan, Lee, Warrington, Salford.
So we've got five clubs and a really close nucleus within like maybe 45 minutes

(11:47):
driving distance for me.
So they're the ones I tend to concentrate on.
So for people who are thinking of trying to get into sports photography.
Is it something where you need to be a member of something like the National Union of Journalists?
Is it something where you need to have a way of getting a pass in there?
What's the sort of basic way into doing that kind of thing?

(12:09):
Would you start more at grassroots level and wait till
you get noticed i think you've got to start at
grassroots because you've got to learn the trade you've got
to understand what's required and you've got to have a certain skill level
now my own personal view
on this joe is that to shoot premier league football super
league rugby i think you're very privileged to

(12:30):
be able to shoot that level of sport and i
think it absolutely demands respect in terms
of the quality of the image you put out and you
can only really get that by starting a grassroots and learning
learning the ropes and and growing yourself as a sports photographer of course
we have the other the other elements of it as well that when you get into top

(12:54):
flight sports it then becomes very much a pressure cooker in some respects where
you are required to file the images during match play as well.
So while the game is on, you will be editing images.
You'll be keyword and captioning and FTPing them off during during gameplay.
And that is a whole different skill level above being able to shoot.

(13:18):
So unless you're really competent at shooting sports, you're not going to cope
with the other side of it either.
In terms of accreditation, it's usually a two step process.
So, the first thing is that you would need to be accredited to,
for instance, the Rugby Football League.
So, you have to apply to them.

(13:40):
And they want certain things like copies of your insurance, copies of X amounts
of sales you've done in the previous season.
And then they will issue a badge. Once you've got the badge,
you then have a secondary accreditation
process where you have to apply to individual clubs to attend.
So if you want to attend st helens on

(14:02):
a saturday against you know wigan for
i can say you need to apply to the host club
and say i'd like to attend these are my accreditation details blah blah blah
and then it's up to them whether they let you in to the to the stadium so it's
a two-step process similar for the football as well yeah so that you've really

(14:23):
got to work at it from and get Get that portfolio in,
get used to selling images to the local papers before you're going to work at
any kind of serious national level then.
Yeah, because space is restricted. So if you're not actively selling images,
there's no point in you being there.
That's the reason why they allow your access. They want to see their pictures

(14:44):
going out in the red tops nationally, the local press, and it's all good for them.
It's promoting the league as well.
Yeah, I think it's important that people realize about that,
getting the images out during the game as well, because there's social media.
They want to put out an image straight after a goal of a player celebrating
the goal, don't they? It's all very, very quick.

(15:06):
You can't be one of these photographers who goes, well, I'll shoot in raw.
I'll take it home. I'll have a little bit of a fiddle with it and then I'll
send it off as a JPEG because you think, well, by that time,
the papers have bought everything they want.
Yeah, it's all over by then. Generally, rule of thumb, if you photograph a goal
and the celebration straight after that, you'll want to get them images filed

(15:30):
off certainly within two minutes.
Yeah, that's quick. So for you, do you prefer that kind of fast-paced environment?
Because we were talking earlier about the architecture as being a bit more slow
and methodical. Do you prefer one over the other, or do you just enjoy both?
I enjoy both really, Joe.

(15:51):
You know, there's nothing like the adrenaline rush at a really big football match.
You know, that can be really exciting. But equally, you know,
I enjoy being really particular.
I've been called particular quite a few times by people.
Just putting an image together, just absolutely the best it can be before a

(16:13):
press to shut up. You know, I enjoy that side of it as well.
So yeah I enjoy both I just love taking pictures Joe I suppose the bottom line is and I think that's,
99% of us get into photography because we enjoy it and that's never left me
I still look forward to going out and doing the next shoot whatever it is.

(16:35):
I just it's just yeah just enjoy it so much so you're not somebody who relies
on their own personal projects to keep the enjoyment you actually get the enjoyment
from the the paid jobs as well.
Yeah, yeah. I always try to. I mean, personal projects have been really useful for me over the years.

(16:55):
And for the last, probably the last 18 months, I've not really done any.
But I am returning to it. I've got one which I'm about to start,
which is going to be something a bit different.
I don't doubt that. I mean, certainly looking back at your various fellowship
panels, we've got London Underground,
we've got Flying Squirrels, squirrels we've got sort of

(17:16):
composites of rather crazy looking people in rather weird
looking backgrounds there's an awful lot of different things going on
there yeah that's what i think
you've just got to go with whatever whatever you enjoy
at that time joe and sometimes i just
get i get an idea in my mind and
i just try to see if i can convert that

(17:36):
into reality in front of the camera but yeah personal projects
are so powerful they really are if you think of you can think of them really
as a as a self-development training exercise if you like yeah um i think they
can give you skills and improve your skills your existing skill set so much,

(17:58):
you know a lot of photography is about problem solving.
Know represented with a particular problem where we
haven't got enough light or we don't know
how to perhaps get a narrative into an image or
whatever it is but shooting personal projects you can spend your time and try
different solutions and see what works best and that naturally rolls across

(18:20):
once you accomplish that or learn how to achieve something that will always
be there for you you can always call back on that from your skill set so i think
they're really Really, really powerful.
I'd recommend that everybody push themselves a little bit to get involved in personal projects.
Definitely. I'd certainly echo that sentiment. So if we look at one of your

(18:41):
recent projects, the fellowship panel that you did of the squirrels in the garden, how did that emerge?
Was it because you happened to have access to them? Was it something that you
were already passionate about?
Could you tell us a little bit about how you got into doing that as a project?
Oh, Joe, how long have you got on this podcast?

(19:03):
I'll try and be concise with this. I'd say both, really.
I am very pro-animal rights, and that's a big part.
Any living animal, wildlife, I think you've got to treat them with the utmost
respect and look after them where we can.
But also, we moved house in 2016, and the house what we moved to,

(19:27):
had a colony of red squirrels living between the gardens and the mature trees
and they would drop into the garden every now and again so i set myself a task really a plan,
to try and get better pictures of them because they were always quite hidden
in the in the tree canopy or very skissish you know if they saw any movement

(19:47):
they were away they're very difficult to photograph in in a rural location unless
you can imagine people have got,
One in four households have got a cat. So, you know, they've got a predator not too far away.
People have dogs, so they don't like to stick around too much.
So it's just about bringing them into the garden. And I've done loads of presentations

(20:09):
of how we achieve this, but it took me quite a long time.
I built a framework, and in the end, I have them coming onto a frame,
interacting with different objects, musical instruments, sitting in cars.
I built some salt coasters for them so I could photograph them jumping through
the air and that was the big thing but I'll tell you what happened John as I

(20:33):
got more into the species itself I learnt more and more about them,
realisation really just how at risk they are in terms of extinction in England,
current estimates are 35,000 red squirrels left in England,
and I've never seen one in the
wild in the UK I've I've I've never

(20:55):
actually seen one I've only ever seen it
in captivity or in Europe in Germany I've never seen a red squirrel I see plenty
of greys but I've never seen a red squirrel here yeah it's shameful Joe it really
is we've gone from like over four million we're down to 35,000 and when you
look at the reasons why we've got But habitat change,

(21:17):
you know, the houses getting built and habitats getting destroyed,
road kills certainly in, you know, locations where I live.
But the biggest killer to them is squirrel pox, which is carried by the grey squirrel.
Grey squirrel carry that virus and it has no ill effect on the grey squirrel,

(21:37):
but it's deadly to a red and it will literally,
it'll kill a red squirrel within two weeks and it's a cruel,
it's a painful death and it will run right through a colony i i lost the colony
of red squirrels actually in november i lost about 18 of them over a three-week
period through squirrel pox wow,
yes it's quite something it's deadly so

(21:59):
i've been on a bit of a campaign with it
really raising awareness and we've done that we've featured on
bbc news itv news we've been
on itv national broadcasts at the
request of the wildlife trust i filmed with
bbc earth 18 months ago so that's gone out now
on their youtube it's done national newspaper

(22:21):
campaigns all we're looking to raise awareness about the dangers of the gray
squirrel in terms of the damage to do to the ecological system that they're
actually not many people are aware of this but the gray squirrel hurdle is listed
in the top ten most damaging.

(22:41):
Non-native invasive species in the world not
in england in the world that's that's really
quite something and i guess with the the photography
you were doing you you you probably got to understand the
behavior of the squirrels that little bit better than just
the casual observer because you're spending that bit more time
with them and creating an environment and testing i

(23:03):
guess you're when you were putting the environment together to draw them into
the garden there were probably some things that worked some things that didn't
and you get to know and understand you know your subject for from a photographic
point of view there as well yeah it is a show i mean it's it's all wildlife
photography is all about observing behavior,
learning the behavior of the animal and that influence from the behavior of

(23:25):
the animal but i've got to know them quite well probably a little bit too geeky
to be honest six million can you be too geeky yeah i like geeky i think geeky's good.
So so six main personality traits
in the red squirrel they can be left-handed or right-handed it's

(23:46):
just so much about them and each one is an individual and it's
each one has got its own you know
its own story its own life and it's it's
it's it's just so sad to be losing them it really is but we'll keep on i mean
i don't i've been in touch with um hrh king charles as well over it i've made
a lot of suggestions to him because i did i did an awful lot of work particularly

(24:09):
during the lockdown he very kindly wrote back to me and he's given me a commitment to do what he can,
when he can so you know it photography is fantastic for breaking down barriers,
it will open doors and allow you to reach people who you would never come in such a.

(24:29):
But i'll put you on the red squirrel story because you'll be
on till tonight and i'll still be rambler on about them yeah it's
it's great that things come out of a out of a
passion like that and that also the images have got that kind of
educational sort of documentary kind of value to them as difficult as though
they might be to see you know unwell animals you think it's part of the the

(24:53):
role of a photographer is that sort of persuasion so it's like with advertising
images you're there to try and make someone want something for whatever reason
you You know, if it's a beer,
you want to make them feel thirsty and want to drink it.
So as photographers, we can influence people's emotions. We can influence what
people do, how they react.
And there are various different ways of doing it. And you've found a particular

(25:16):
way there, partly with the red squirrels, but also with the air ambulance as well.
Yeah, definitely. And, you know, I think we're very privileged as photographers
these days, Joe. So, I mean, the equipment, what we have access to,
it's just unbelievable.
You would never have thought 10 years ago, you know, the quality of the equipment.

(25:37):
Of the cameras these days and you know the feature sets they have on them they're
absolutely amazing what we can do and we're also privileged in in this time
frame what we live in as well for the opportunities we get and i think everybody
has you know a duty really to pay back where they can,
and to make a difference with the photography you know whether it's better it

(26:00):
doesn't matter what level it's at but if we can make a difference to somebody's
life you know or to wildlife by taking some pictures, I think 100%,
that's what we should be looking to do.
You know, I just rightly say it's important as well.
We can affect the change through taking pictures, as crazy as that may sound, but we really can.

(26:21):
Yeah, I think sometimes you get these little arguments among photographers about
doing work sort of for free and that.
And I think that from the way I tend to look at it is if you've got something
you're passionate about that you want people to know about,
that you want to share the message about often there
isn't the money for these organizations to do that so

(26:41):
you can actually choose to play your part by doing the pictures i
think there's a very big difference between that and doing it
for free in order to try and get some exposure to try
and get your foot in the door i think that's a very different kind
of use of use of your time really yeah
i think giving back is something we should
all do and that is certainly difference from somebody

(27:03):
perhaps who goes into
a professional environment and starts
causing havoc with with pricing yes
shall we say that's that's completely different
and i think you you know in a professional environment you've
got to respect yourself and you've got to respect the work and you've
got to respect your clients as well and you must charge

(27:26):
accordingly for that type of work and and
the issue is that if you don't then that work will soon disappear from a chargeable
point of view for everyone so you know they have to be about everything what
you do does have a value somebody wants to use it so um you should always charge accordingly.

(27:48):
Yeah absolutely uh photographers need to help maintain their own industry really
there and just cutting off your nose to spite your face if you're not careful
I think absolutely spot on Joel.
So whether that comes down to the actual sort of shoot fee or licensing things,
sometimes people are tempted to, they'll get contacted by somebody who wants

(28:10):
to publish a book or somebody who wants to do something in a magazine.
Oh, can I have your image?
And you think, you know, make sure you do think about a licensing fee for those things.
Don't just go, oh, I get to be in that magazine or that newspaper here. Yeah, have it.
All too often people do. Yeah, I don't do it, Joe.
I just won't do it. I mean, I got contacted not long ago.

(28:33):
Somebody wanted to use a series of images, so I asked them what the budget was
and they said, Oh, we haven't got a budget, but only a small company.
I think you're like, Oh, well, you'll have to find the budget.
So they found the budget and I worked out a deal for them. Hmm.
And they still didn't buy it. They just wanted three images.
But I'm sure somebody somewhere else will oblige them.

(28:57):
Yeah. That's sometimes that's sometimes the problem, isn't it?
There's always somebody that will yeah there we go that's another
one we could talk about till the cows come home i think unfortunately yeah
yeah so you're clearly somebody who's quite passionate about your photography
and you've got passionate values in various areas of your life when you're actually
running your photography business would you say you bring your values into that

(29:21):
is that something that you feel you can do when you're running a business a
values-based business?
Yeah, I think you've got to be, you've got to keep your values and you've got
to keep your standards in business.
I try to treat every single job as if the client is, you know,
a close member of my family or a close friend and I make sure they're well looked after.

(29:42):
I only understand the briefs.
I never try to upsell that's something i always avoid doing i'll always make sure i give a a clear,
quotation and if it's accepted if i've
made a mistake well i did make a mistake not long ago actually i ended up doing
it probably 30 more worth than i'd quoted for but when i looked back at it it

(30:05):
was down to me so i just swallowed that myself you know i didn't bother the
clients over it but i think your standards you you have to be absolutely upfront
and honest with everything what
you do and do your absolute best for the clients.
You know, and I think that's the only way to do it.
I won't mention the building, the building fraternity, which tends to work slightly differently.

(30:28):
But you've just got to be strict with people, Joe. You know,
you've got to be, you've got to be right with them.
And if you're right with other people, they come back and are right with you as well.
Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. So what would you say motivates you as a business
photographer, as a commercial photographer?

(30:48):
What is it about the job that makes you keep doing it?
Is it the enjoyment of it or are you motivated by the money?
What sort of things get you out of bed in the morning?
I love a photography job, first and foremost. I love doing it.
I love a challenge. challenge I suffer with the imposter

(31:08):
syndrome a lot of the time and I love doing things but I think I can't do so
it's that challenge it's going out excuse me it's going out going on location
maybe in a new environment working a solution as to what we're going to do how we're going to do it,
you know making sure we're covering the brief and I just love all that part

(31:32):
of it and then And when you get over the obstacles and you start shooting and
the images are coming into the camera and you're happy with them,
there's no better feeling, in my opinion.
And that's first and foremost what drives me.
Obviously the financial part of that is important as well
but i would say that is i don't jump
out to bed in the morning saying you know oh i'm going to get this money

(31:53):
today or that money i jump out the bed in the moment and
go grace i'm going to photograph this today and i can't wait to get there and
yeah i'm going to try different angles and maybe i'll write it slightly differently
than it's happening it's all that part of it surprised me yeah i i suppose you've
You've got a huge number of different awards and qualifications and things like that as well.

(32:14):
Is that something which is an important part of your motivation?
I mean, for me, sometimes it's actually kind of part of trying to keep the imposter syndrome at bay.
I almost feel that need for some kind of validation that I can still do it,
which is kind of sad in a way. But that's part of it for me.

(32:35):
Totally agree with you. I love bashing the imposter syndrome over the head with an award.
Play now get away from me yeah I need structure Joe I love having structure,
competitions give me structure so the monthly competitions with the society
is I love entering those and I know at the end of the month I've got to sit
down I've got to have a look through what I've shot that month see what I think

(32:57):
is of a standard that's worthy of an entry,
then look at the image again critically look from a judge's perspective,
is there any distractions in there is there anything and i've missed and i love
that structure part of it but certainly on awards if somebody comes back to
you and says oh you've got a hc this month and you're like amazing somebody's bought in,

(33:23):
to you know the vision and the image what you've supplied and it's it's all
it's all verification really to say yeah you're on the right path and that's
why i think competitions are so important,
self-projects are a bit like that as well because,
But with a self-project, you haven't got somebody giving you that confirmation
at the end of it, only yourself.

(33:46):
But I think competition's really, really important.
And, you know, the job what Terry Jones does with the society,
it really is on another level. And I agree. Yeah.
Always encourage people to be in their competitions, always.
And you never, if you think about it this way, Joe, you're never in competition
with anybody else when you're at a, like, you know, a photography competition.

(34:09):
You're only in competition with yourself to do better than what you did the previous month.
Yeah i think that's one of the good things about having
awards that are set at like effectively
a particular score a standard it's not that you
you if you meet that standard it's not that you you might
get pushed off if there are too many others is if if everybody meets

(34:31):
that standard then everybody gets the you know the award if
only one person meets the highly commended and there might be
no golds that month that's just how it is it's the standard is there the benchmark
is there and it's clear what you're aiming for it's not sort of this month you
your fifth or tenth or 25th or something like that it is much much clearer to

(34:51):
understand the standard i think yeah i agree and
that's important as well you know if you're judging to or you're being judged
against a set set standard, then you know roughly where you are.
Obviously, that changes at convention where images start going up against each
other then in the finals to see who's getting the top spot.

(35:12):
But having that standard to be judged against, I think that's really good.
And I should quite rightly say, if you were coming 12th or 15th and that changed
on how many people entered that month, they wouldn't have the same credibility,
in my opinion. Thank you.
Of what it is so you've also trained as a

(35:33):
judge and done quite a lot of judging as well with the societies and elsewhere
too uh how do you think that's changed
you as a photographer i think it's given
me a much keener eye and there's also give me the different exposures different
genres and different levels of photography which you know you may not have seen
previous if you wasn't judging and you know and it's i think it makes a huge

(35:58):
difference understanding the process,
i mean i my judging started back in well 2012 i started there with the.
Lancashire and cheshire photographic union which is the umbrella for all the
camera clubs in the northwest umbrella society right i went through the judging
school if you like and then i was a

(36:21):
junior judge for a while until I was upgraded and then I got listed on the PAGB
judging list which is the UK umbrella over all the different regions so that's
the highest level of judging in that arena.
And then I think it was gosh how long ago I did the society as one with Terry

(36:45):
and I mean that was different in a lot of ways but different in a good way if that makes sense.
And it was very very rigorous, I learnt an awful lot at judging school and again
I'd recommend anyone to do that if they're interested in becoming a judge or
they just want to understand more how people assess images,

(37:08):
and I think it was oh we have it's here actually, I made the notes,
March 2019 I attended judging school wow, that's five Five years already.
That's unbelievable how quick the time goes.
But I've enjoyed the society's judging. I'm actively judging in the monthly is.
We also do assessments of qualification panels. They're obviously a convention.

(37:33):
It's always a really great event to be involved in and a privilege to be involved in also.
We're tightly controlled by Terry. She manages the standards so well in that.
And she's probably, well, she is the most tuned in person in terms of judging
and controlling judges I've ever come across.

(37:53):
She does an amazing job. well but yeah
i think privilege well the nacho i think you
can you can know that the standards are are maintained well
it's not like you've got to worry about sort of qualification creep or
something oh it's becoming easier or anything like that it's you you know that
you get a qualification and it's it's got lasting value it's yeah and if there's

(38:18):
a qualification show or if you you win you know you win an award in the monthlies
or convention you've earned that
You know, you should be really proud of the fact that you've achieved that because,
you know, a lot of people, you know, don't get to actually do that.
So you've worked hard, you've achieved it, you own it, and you should be proud of it.

(38:40):
Definitely. Yeah. And it's something that can then lead on to potentially with
some clients, it can be a reassurance when they book you, when they can see
that you've got various qualifications, when you've won awards.
And particularly in your case, I guess it's also led on to becoming like a brand
ambassador for one or two companies.
So what actually is a brand ambassador? What do you actually have to do?

(39:05):
I suppose a lot of people see them about, but they don't necessarily know what it involves. Yeah.
Yeah, so being an ambassador, again, it's an absolute privilege and not something
to take for granted, but it's a multi-skilled role, really.
You're there to support the brand, and you do that in various ways.

(39:26):
You could be supplying images for articles, for product launches.
I mean, one of the most exciting things I get to do is I get equipment pre-release,
and I get to play with it before anybody even knows
it's coming out and that's always you know that's
always big fun that i can imagine but what
i suppose the issue you've got there is that you haven't actually got

(39:47):
the raw processing capabilities in some of
your image software because it's so new yeah yeah that's right so so in that
instant what i would do is i was shooting jpeg and raw and i mean the jpegs
out of the cameras these days is just you know that outstanding they really
are and then i'd maybe look at the rows later on as,

(40:09):
the raw processing software becomes available but it's a multi multi-skilled role you know attending.
Trade events tps being able to speak about the equipment about your photography,
it's it's it really is it's an honor really joe to be able to to do that and
unbelievably and i've I've been doing it with Sony since 2017.

(40:31):
So wow, I think that's quite a long stretch.
Rotolight was 2017 as well. And Photospeed, I came on a bit later with Photospeed,
but three great brands and they make, you know, they have great products and it's.
Yeah, it's, as I say, it's a privilege really to be able to be involved with them at that level.

(40:55):
I suppose at these photography shows and that, you're basically sort of dashing
between one stand and another and don't get to see much else of what's going
on then, representing your various companies like that. Yeah, it can be.
I was ping-ponging between Sony and Rolls-Royce at TPS this year.
It was great fun, keeps you busy.
You don't get to see much of the show, to be honest, when you're doing that.

(41:18):
No. Now, you know, it is what it is at the end of the day.
And it's something I enjoy doing, meeting people, advising people.
And I can advise people from a non-sales point of view.
So if somebody comes to me and they say, oh, I'm thinking of getting this camera,
I'll sit them down and say, what
are your priorities? What are you looking for? What are your benefits?

(41:41):
And then you can show them images and you can share with you the way I do things.
I mean quite commonly i'll share my camera settings as well i'll just
put it on a download it onto an sd card and send it to people so you can work
set the cameras with the same as me and work the same way as me for a while
till they get into the system and then you know they can start customizing their

(42:01):
own workflow from there on in but i enjoy that part of it it's it's not just,
from a sales point of view people have got a bit already and perhaps not getting
the best out of it I had one person actually only last week who was having problems with focus.
It was a one-setting on the camera which he overlooked.

(42:22):
So it's great to be able to get people up to speed with the kit.
Same with the lighting and the prints.
Definitely. And sometimes when you're teaching, it is just a really small thing.
I did a beginner's workshop for a group a few years back.
And within the first five minutes, someone said, oh, great, that's it.

(42:43):
I've got what I need almost.
And it was something, you wouldn't believe it, it was the little diopter wheel.
Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't believe it. So they were looking at, they say,
I got this camera, but every time I look through everything's all blurry.
And sometimes it seems to be okay when you look at the actual photo and sometimes it's not.
And then you say, well, just, just rotate that wheel round there a little bit. Oh, fantastic.

(43:09):
And for them, for them, they were, they were so infused to go out and then take
photos for the rest of the, of the session, just, just for one little thing.
And it's really nice when you've got those moments of, with people who are new
to the kit, with people who are new to various techniques,
it's lovely seeing them being able to enjoy themselves and open up a new world

(43:30):
of creativity. Yeah, absolutely.
And you're quite right, it's often the small things which is,
you know, they've overlooked or they've not realised.
But I think any event Joe if somebody you know if I run an event and there's
20 people on it if one person,
gets one thing out of that I'm happy because it can completely change their

(43:53):
photography yeah and I would a couple of years back at TPS I'll give you two examples,
we had one guy who came he was he's visually impaired and he was he said he
was packing in photography because of this and that and,
I set this camera up for him, you know, absolutely fail-safe,
how the focus will, using all the focus points,

(44:15):
explain the way the system works, you know, and he left happy,
you know, spending enough an hour with that guy.
Another chap had had a stroke and he was struggling holding the camera,
so we went through the various different options.
And just spending a little bit of time with somebody, it can totally change
their photography and their enjoyment ongoing.

(44:36):
So you invest a little bit of time with somebody, long term they're getting
so much enjoyment from it and i really i really enjoyed that type of issue not
an issue but that type of challenge really.
You know, helping people, I think, is what, as I mentioned before,
is something we all should do whenever we can.

(44:56):
But, yeah, I absolutely love that. When we get somebody coming in with an issue,
we send them away happy. It's a great feeling.
Yeah, it lifts everybody up doing that kind of thing.
You feel great for being able to help somebody, and the other person is re-enthused
for their hobby and so on.
I think, for me, the training and also the judging,
giving back like that, it's like when you get to write a report on

(45:19):
somebody's qualification for example getting to
give them that kind of detailed feedback it's it's really is
it's actually really quite satisfying you know
it's not a chore by any means yeah definitely
i agree i mean i'm lucky to be
involved in the mentoring as well with the societies and you
know it's the first report is usually a

(45:41):
fair bit in it shall we say yes for some people yes
and in a nice way though you know directing them but
there's nothing better than seeing a second mentoring
request come in from the same person and
you see that they've rolled in what you've been
saying to them into the photography i just actually quite rightly say it's so

(46:02):
satisfying for that and then you know it makes all the difference it makes all
the hard work doing the reports worthwhile it certainly does yeah so you're
you've been involved in all sorts of different aspects of
the photography industry and all the awards and things you've won and qualifications
and so on, do you still have any particular ambitions for your photography,

(46:25):
any landmarks you want to reach? Yeah, I do actually.
One of the ones I've got, well, I've got a few, but I won't share them all.
Certainly in terms of because we're both involved with the societies,
one of my ambitions is to win that competition outright, that convention.
That is something I just love to do, and I've always wanted to do it.

(46:48):
I've come close a few times. I came second overall in 2016.
Yeah. And then I came third overall in 2020.
Oh yeah it's close yeah now
that's a four-year cycle that i might be lucky this year but
i don't think so um but yeah

(47:11):
i've always got targets i think if you don't have targets you'll just slide
backwards i've always things what or what i want to achieve the certain images
i want to achieve as well certainly in terms of sport which i've got in my mind
and i know they're there for me but
they'll only happen when external conditions align.

(47:34):
So, yeah, 100%. I've got a lot of stuff which I want to achieve, yeah.
But the society is one, it's one definitely. I've not enjoyed the same level
of success about previously, certainly over the last, I'd say, 18 months or so.
18 months or so. But, yeah, I need to up my game a little bit if I'm going to do that.

(47:56):
We've got all these Swedes and all these Aussies coming in you know I mean it's
they're taking all the awards you know the Brits have got to have to fight back,
yeah we are we are we've got to have some of our game.
But I suppose, like, getting back to your question, ambitions in photography still.

(48:17):
The biggest one and the most important one, which I've got, is to have an effect in certain areas.
Certainly in red squirrel conservation and also in the air ambulance world as well.
And, you know, that's the most important factor for me.
But, you know, making the occasional great picture and being involved taking

(48:39):
pictures is all well and good.
But if you can affect for a cause for the
best of other people or you know for wildlife i
think that is that that's my biggest ambition and that
that's where i'd really like to really really like to be and then and to push
forward for you know wildlife doesn't have a voice you know we've got to speak

(48:59):
for them where it's only going so far we can do much more with pictures we can
reach out more So if I can help with the funding requirements of the air ambulance services,
well, that's massive.
And that's, they're my two ambitions, which are ongoing, which are worth more
to me than any award or, you know, any source of success in other areas.

(49:22):
But that's my main thing, really. That's my ambitions.
Yeah. So when you're working with the air ambulance, how does that work?
Do you kind of tag along and you figure out your way of telling the story or
do they give you a brief that they want you to follow?
Normally, they will give me a shot list of ideas, which is not strict.

(49:47):
They just say, we'd actually like to have this type of image because we don't have it at the moment.
Now, I was there last week on the shot list. I think there was about nine or
ten shots on the list, which I just rolled into what I was doing.
But I've got a certain level of trust between us, so they pretty much let me go at it, really.

(50:08):
I mean, this last photo of SA, it was about highlighting the use of critical
care doctors now on the crews more and more.
So 40% of the admissions attendants were good in the first quarter,
had a critical care doctor with them. And that has additional costs.
Also, fuel has had a massive impact on the cost of the service.

(50:33):
And currently, Joe, it costs £4.5 million to run the service each year.
And is that the one in your area? That's not nationally, presumably.
That's then multiplied up around the country as well, is it?
Yeah. Well, this is in Wiltshire. So I'm working in Wiltshire at the moment.
So just for that one region, Wiltshire, the county, £4.5 million to run the service.

(50:59):
And that is a huge amount of money. It's eye-watering amount of money.
That equates to over £12,000 per day.
That's huge, isn't it? And as I say, you've got this multiplied across the country
in so many different ways.
And it's one of those things where you hope you'll never need to rely on it.
But when you do, boy, does it make a difference to people. I mean,

(51:21):
they're saving lives, aren't they?
Yeah, it makes a huge difference. I mean, the first quarter,
they had 329 missions over the first three months.
Now, if we break that down, that equates to £3,400 per mission.
Now, when we look at the top line, the £4.5 million, It's a huge amount of money,
but when you break it down to 3,400 per mission, that's less than three and

(51:47):
a half grand to go and save somebody's life.
Somebody's mum, somebody's dad, daughter, son. It's money well spent.
But all the air ambulances across the country, they don't receive any direct
funding from the government.
So they have to raise the money themselves. They all have a charity arm. them.
And that comes from donations, running their own lottery, charity shops, people doing events.

(52:13):
But that money has to be kept coming in. And part of what I do with them is
to highlight that funding need.
And it's important because,
As people, we get used to things, you know, we get used to having internet,
we get used to having electricity, and it all gets took for granted.
We see maybe an air ambulance flying above, we just think it just happens.

(52:36):
But it doesn't, it needs to be funded and it needs to be supported.
And that's what my photo essays are primarily for, to do that.
Yeah, with those kind of services, it's so important that the visuals,
individuals are professional because it's the

(52:56):
way the way our minds work when we look at sort of amateur sort
of snaps of things in a context like that for us
to then consider giving reasonable amounts of money
to a charity it's it's like with with
when we shop if the images don't look quite right there's that kind of dissonance
in our mind that makes us wonder is it worth it is it not so for charities that

(53:16):
do those jobs they they rely on having good images and it's one of those things
where if you've got a photographer who's passionate about it and you can provide that for them.
It makes a huge difference when they're turning up at a fair and they've got
a big print of a quality image behind them, not just a grubby little flyer with
a few things that someone took on their mobile.

(53:38):
I mean, the takings that they're likely to get by comparison are going to be
just chalk and cheese, aren't they?
Yeah, definitely. A lot of the stuff, Joe, you know, it's exciting as well.
I mean, some of them go out on 48-sheet billboards, box
of buses you'll be amazed where they end up
the images and it's great to see them being used as well
but they've got to be used in context and in

(54:01):
that environment you've got to be you've got to be careful you you've got to
be careful what you show and what you don't show more importantly you know you
you've got to show the good side of the service i know i know some Some publications
would love to get the hands-on images,
which are less visually attractive, shall we say.

(54:25):
So you've got to be careful what you're showing. Patient confidentiality has
got to be top of the list as well. You know, you've got to protect them in all instances.
I mean, everything called a shoot-of-the-air ambulance has to actually go back
to them to be approved before publication.
And they also have to get further permissions for anybody involved,

(54:45):
certainly the South West Ambulance Trust and, you know, any people in the pictures as well.
So it's all protected and it's all done in the
absolute best possible way we can do it well
the yeah the ethics of these things are so important you don't
want to be taking advantage of some poor soul who's you know
comatose in the back of the helicopter being rushed off to try and save their

(55:09):
life i think you know there's gonna be situations where you might think yeah
this is a great story but that that's where you need to exercise that little
bit of judgment and realize that not everything needs to be photographed.
I've been involved with Air Ambulance Services, Joe, would you believe, for 20 years now.

(55:29):
Wow. Going right back to 2004, I was first introduced to Northwest Air Ambulance
CEO by the sales staff of it, also trader of all people. Really? Yeah.
And it was an event which was run in Liverpool. We were putting a motion show
together and one of our sponsors was also trader and they came to me and they said, look,

(55:50):
Fiat have given us a car, which we're going to raffle and raise funds for the
Northwest Air Ambulance and we'd like you to be our partner in that.
So we did all the marketing for it. We helped them with ticket sales.
And that was my first introduction to an air ambulance service.
And then from there, I started doing events for them, I was shooting brochure

(56:12):
work and it just rolled on and on and on.
And Wiltshire Air Ambulance, the service I've been working with for five years
now, and that's gone really quick as well.
So we did an initial photo essay with them. Then I did a big COVID one.
During COVID, because I'm a UK press card holder, I was allowed to go out and

(56:35):
still work, although there wasn't much work about.
So during lockdown, if I got pulled up, I'd produce my card,
and I'd be absolutely fine.
The title would be out. out and one of the things i was covering a lot was the
nhs stories you know the hospitals and stuff,
and the thought just crossed my mind i thought what are
the air ambulances doing so i got in touch with air ambulance

(56:56):
in belgium had a good chat with them their
landscape of funding had totally changed you know the chalice
shops couldn't open didn't have people doing skydives and
all these activities so they
were under they were under a bit of pressure and also their
own operating procedures that changed they had to fit a perspex
panel in the cameras and the

(57:18):
helicopter to keep the cockpit separate from the patient's area
in the back oh that's all good yeah yeah people
wearing masks and so many different procedures they were doing so i said to
them look i think we should do we should do a photo essay and get get this out
because people don't know what you're doing their landscape of calls have changed

(57:39):
as well they were getting a lot more accidents in the home, obviously,
because everyone's at home.
RTAs had dropped because nobody was going out. So I went down there.
I spent, I self-isolated for a week before I went to see them.
And then I attended the airbase and got all my COVID checks done by one of the doctors.

(58:00):
It was clear to go. So we entered the airside then.
And then I stayed airside for three days, actually slept on the site to try
and minimise bringing any infection in.
We shot a load of stuff and it was it was great and it turned out in retrospect that I was the only
photographer that flew and worked with

(58:22):
an air ambulance during COVID times and that
work now stands testament to what those folks went through for future generations
you know in 10 years 20 years people want to look back they've got a good reference
of what took place and obviously we put the pictures out as well they went out
into the press and we used quite extensively.

(58:43):
And certainly in terms of fundraising, Joe, you might think that the big national
papers are the ones that you go for, but in reality it's the local press that
you want because that is your fundraising area.
Well, local press relate to local stories, don't they? Absolutely.
If a local person has had their life saved, they're five miles down the road from you,

(59:09):
it has that much more impact often than thinking
oh yeah someone at the other end of the country and it it
just shows how as photographers we
are storytellers and that we if we have a passion then we can help them with
telling their story like that and these photo essays that you've done have been
your way of being able to give give back with that so how can people actually

(59:32):
see some of these photo essays that you've done where's where's the best places to to go and look,
I've got some online on my website, www.terrydonnelly.co.uk.
I should do better with that, though.
I should put more content on and keep it more updated.
Certainly a Google search, Air Ambulance Terry Donnelly, you'll see them still

(59:54):
online in press and online news agencies.
And certainly come to an event. I'm actually just going to put a submission
in to attend the convention,
actually and we're going to be covering their ambulance work
from terms of working with them
shooting with them on what's entailed and the

(01:00:15):
reasons why we you know we we do
what we do so that might be something anyone going to convention in january
would like to come to attend to yeah it's really important joe we'll just finish
on the air ambulance by saying with these crystal care doctors on board now
on the cruise when you think back i don't know if you're,

(01:00:37):
aware of where the ambulance actually originated from
they started life working with the police and the police helicopters when the
police helicopters fought it'd be a good idea to occasionally have a paramedic
on board of them when they're going out to road traffic accidents etc so they
started doing that service and then it grew and grew and eventually you know

(01:00:58):
somebody Somebody said, well,
we need our own service really, because working with the police is okay,
but it's quite constrictive where if they've got their own ambulance service,
they can be flying out to missions themselves.
And that's where it came from and where it grew.
And quite early on, it was all about stabilising the patients and getting them

(01:01:21):
to hospital, to an ER room as soon as they can.
But we're bringing on the critical care doctors now on board.
It actually means that that critical care doctor can give full ER room,
medical attention, actually on site, wherever they are, whether it's in somebody's
house, the side of a road, wherever it will be,

(01:01:44):
they're actually bringing the
ER to the patients and getting the patients further down the care line.
Because those first moments, the first minutes, are the most important in saving somebody.
And it's a great thing what they do, and they're really pushing the envelope
with this to make that service the best it can be for people.

(01:02:04):
Is this something you put on your social media channels at all?
Is that something that people can follow on there?
Yeah, I'm a bit hit and miss on social. I tend to have a little phrase of activity,
and then I don't go on for a short while.
But yeah, certainly my socials are TerryDonnelly01 on Instagram and Twitter.

(01:02:26):
I just find the socials take me a lot of time to do, Joe, and sometimes I just
don't have the time to do it. Tell me about it, yes.
Quite right. I think it's nice for people to be able to follow your work and
they've got places now that they can go to to follow up on these stories and things.
So remind us of your website. You've got a personal website and a commercial one, haven't you?

(01:02:49):
Yeah, so my personal website is terrydonnelly.co.uk.
As I mentioned earlier, I've split the architectural work away from that,
and that's got its own dedicated website, which is terrydonnelly.co.
And as I say, social is terrydonnelly01.
And that's it really, Joe. So that's my online presence.

(01:03:10):
Yeah, that's absolutely fine. Yeah. So if our listeners would like to find out
any more and see some of Terry's imagery, please do go and take a look at that.
And hopefully this has helped to sort of fire up your interest in your own passion
to see how you could contribute, what you could do as a photographer to tell
somebody's story in a positive way.
So it's been really interesting having you on as a guest, Terry.

(01:03:33):
Gary, thank you so much for sharing your story, your work with the listeners.
It's really appreciated. Thank you.
No, it's been great to be on, Joe. Thank you very much for inviting me along.
And thank you, everybody, for listening. This is the Focused Professional Podcast.
Get connected, trained, supported and qualified with the Society of Photographers.

(01:03:56):
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