Perfecting Pet Photography with Belinda Richards

In episode 19 we focus on pet photography with one of the world's top exponents of the genre. Australian photographer Belinda Richards has won many awards and titles for her work, including being The Society of Photographers overall photographer of the year in 2022. Belinda has worked with animals for many years and in different industries. Her time running a mobile dog grooming business and working for the local council in animal management have helped her to gain a deep insight into animal behaviour. She combines this extensive experience with her understanding of fine art and great camera skills to run an internationally renowned pet photography studio. 

All of this would have seemed unlikely in her childhood given her initial fear of dogs. But, she overcame it and developed a lifelong passion for them, eventually naming her studio after one of her former pets. Her background in animal welfare has equipped her with unique skills that she brings into her photography sessions, ensuring that animals feel comfortable and relaxed.

Belinda's academic journey took her from the technical aspects of photography to aesthetics and fine art, all of which are evident in her work today. She is also interested in business and understands the importance of good marketing. Whether it is her competition images or finding new ways to reach new clients, Belinda is relentlessly creative. She builds in both the more profitable aspects of her work and time to create in order to keep both herself and her business healthy.

The combination of hard work, talent and a creative use of her unique skills and experience have made Belinda Richards one of the most respected pet photographers in the world. All of this comes from a place of passion - doing the work not just for money but for the love of it. 

 

Images ©Belinda Richards (used here with permission)

To keep up with Belinda's work and her latest projects, you can visit her business website at frogdogstudios.com.au or her personal creative website at belindarichards.com. You can also follow her on social media platforms under the handles @BelindaRichardsArtist or @FrogDogStudios.

 

Sponsored by The Society of Photographers

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the Focused Professional Podcast, sponsored by the Society of Photographers.
I'm your host, Joe Lenton, and this is Episode 19.
Music.

(00:33):
Welcome to the Focused Professional podcast today
we have a guest who's all the way from Australia
she was the 2022 society of photographers overall photographer of the year she's
won numerous categories and been a finalist in numerous categories numerous
times and she is a very well-known pet photographer this is the highly talented

(00:56):
belinda richards hello belinda hi joe How are you going?
Yeah, good, thanks. It's great for you to be on the podcast.
Thank you very much for accepting the invitation.
Well, thank you so much for thinking of me. Yeah, quite happy to be here.
Thank you. That's great.
So, you know, with pets, I think, you know, we've got to start with the obvious
silly question, which is best, cats or dogs?

(01:18):
Oh, that's the age old question, isn't it? I'm actually a big fan of both.
I mean, if I had to choose, you'd probably push me in the dog direction just
because they can come with you everywhere um but i do love my cats as well so,
yeah i've seen some people will take their cat for a walk but um i've said to

(01:38):
my wife i draw the line there oh look i mean it'd be great if cat most cats
would do it but unfortunately uh most cats prefer to stay in their own um you
know environment and get a bit scared of the big wide world so.
It's a lot easier to take your dog for a walk down the street or take them to
the cafe for a coffee but most cats won't be up for that.

(01:59):
I'm not sure, but your studio is called Frog Dog. Does that mean you've got
a frog that you take for a walk as well or is it just the dogs?
No, I wish I did, though. I can't imagine how many Instagram followers I could get.
So Frog Dog Studios comes from my previous dog.

(02:20):
She's passed away nearly two years ago now, but her name was Smushy and she was a French Bulldog.
And she was a short little stocky little thing, and she used to sit like a frog.
So when I decided, yeah, when I was coming up for names for the business, that's, um.
That's what I landed on. And it's a bit different.

(02:41):
You know, I'm a bit branding focused with my business, so I feel like having
that sort of unusual name has been really beneficial because people don't forget Frog Dog Studios.
I imagine they would forget Belinda Richards' photography.
Yeah, it's a little bit more memorable, isn't it? It sticks in the mind,

(03:03):
so that's a good strategy.
I was wondering initially whether that was kind of your specialism, frogs and dogs.
No, I've never actually photographed a frog in the studio, so maybe I need to do that.
I've never even, you know, here we are eight years down the track and I've never
even thought about that.
Oh, well, there you go.

(03:23):
There's something to work towards. Yeah, there's going to have to be a video
at some point involving pictures of frogs and dogs.
It's just going to have to be done yeah i think it will i think you're right possibly
separately we don't want any uh dogs thinking that the
frogs are tasty treat you know uh no
no uh we don't have as many frogs in the garden anymore unfortunately because

(03:44):
our cats like to chase them so yeah they're handy handy to have frogs definitely
they're very useful they get rid of other pests yes they do and they're cute
have you always loved animals then of all types is that something that has always been with you?
Yes and no. So it's funny.
When I was a kid, I was extremely frightened of dogs.

(04:08):
I had an uncle growing up who was very much into dogs, dog crazy,
but he always had German Shepherds and Rottweilers, so quite large dogs.
And every time we would see him, my mum would tell me to stay away from the dogs.
And I think that instilled a fear in me. um but
as i got a bit older i got to about 10 or

(04:30):
11 i think i was and my auntie um
my mom's family all lives in northern ireland so that's quite
a trip from you know to see them and i'd never actually they finally came to
visit us and this was like 1990 or something like that so it was quite a big
deal um and while they were here i begged my auntie to buy me a dog thinking

(04:54):
there's no way she's going to buy me a dog. Well, she bought me a dog.
And that was where the love of, yeah, my animals kind of really started.
I, yeah, I was always bringing home stray, stray cats.
Frogs I used to catch a lot, actually, because I grew up in the country.
So we used to catch frogs and breed the tadpoles and all that sort of stuff.

(05:15):
So, yeah, I've just always been an animal person. And once I sort of got over
that fear of dogs, yeah, I've.
I've been in love with them ever since, and I've been working with them now since 2001.
So, yeah, it's 23 years or something like that I've been working with them,

(05:37):
and it's, yeah, they're just really special to me in my life, yeah.
And I think that I will always work with them in some capacity or another.
They can have quite distinct personalities, can't they, really?
I mean, people often just sort of think, oh, it's just a dog or it's just a cat,
but they can be very very different can't they

(05:57):
oh they can absolutely like i mean i've
had quite a few dogs now that have left us over the years
and obviously i keep you know
bringing more into the family and every single
one of them has been different in in one way or another it's
they do they have their very own personalities um the
cats too i've had two cats now and they're both

(06:20):
very very different and yeah it's just it's it's quite lovely having them around
and they're just sort of these magical creatures to me that just bring this
happiness and warmth into a home you know I don't I don't have children by choice and.

(06:41):
And having my animals around, yeah, it's just like this little person that I
don't, you know, it's just a bit easier to look after, too, to be quite honest.
They are. Yeah, I think at times cats can be a bit like toddlers,
but the handy thing being that you can leave them on their own and they'll look after themselves.
That's exactly right. And, you know, nobody calls child services on you.

(07:03):
So, yeah, definitely. Definitely.
Did you find you needed any training to handle animals at all or is it did you
naturally just bond with animals as you spent time with them?
So that first dog that we got as a kid became very attached.

(07:26):
We both of us were attached to each other, but he was he was my my dog.
You know, I was the only person who could take his food away.
You know, things like that. He just became my responsibility.
And I think ever since then, I think it's a natural thing that I have.
Obviously, over the last 23 years or so, I've learned an awful lot because I've worked.

(07:48):
I initially started out working as a mobile dog groomer in 2001.
I did that for about seven years. I've worked in welfare here for many,
many years. I worked at the Lost Dogs Home. I used to do their emergency services.
So I've worked in a council role as an animal management officer.

(08:11):
So I've worked in every capacity there. So from, you know, having a lot of fun
with them here in the studio and it's all light and good times to the really
dark side of pet ownership and,
you know, having to deal with animals that are neglected or not being treated properly.
Or, you know, even just picking them up after they've been hit by a car and

(08:32):
stuff like that. So, yeah.
You know, you tend to develop these skills over time.
And I mean, one of the things that I used to attend to a lot as they're like
doing the emergency services stuff for council was going out to dog attacks
and dogs that people couldn't control.
They were on the loose and they were angry and things like that.

(08:54):
So you tend to learn a lot about dog behavior and psychology by immersing yourself in that world, I guess.
And it's also for your own safety. So I always suggest that,
you know, whenever I'm sort of training new pet photographers or mentoring to,

(09:14):
if you haven't had any interaction with animals other than the family pet.
It's a really good idea to try and get some of that experience.
Whether it is going and doing a course or whether it's volunteering at your local shelter or,
you know, doing a much more in-depth training with your own pet to just learn

(09:37):
more about the subjects that you're dealing with.
Both, um, because I think that for me, that intuitive natural response with
animals is why I get the images that I do, um, with my, with,
with the clients that come into my studio.
I think it's because I, I mean, first of all, I know how to behave around them

(09:58):
to make them feel comfortable and welcome and at ease,
which then allows the dog to then open up and give me the personality that the
owner wants to see in their photos.
So, yeah, I think for me, like I said, it's a bit of a mixture of both.
It's natural ability, but it's also years of being immersed in a world where

(10:24):
I've kind of had to learn these things.
So, yeah, that was a long answer, wasn't it?
I can imagine that it seems to me you're almost at polar opposites of where
you started with your animal welfare,
because now you're seeing sort of hopefully well-maintained,
well-looked-after pets coming into your studio, coming from a loving environment

(10:48):
and that, whereas animal welfare, I mean…,
But tell us a little bit about, you know, without telling too many horror stories,
but tell us a little bit about what that was like even working in that sort of environment.
So I was working here for the largest pound, I guess.
It wasn't really, it's not a rescue as such. It's a pound shelter.

(11:11):
It's basically where your dog goes if it gets picked up on the street here in
Melbourne, in a lot of the metropolitan Melbourne.
So if your dog gets out and council comes and gets it, that this is where it would end up.
So it's not a rescue as such. And I know the main difference between that is that,

(11:34):
when you're working as a rescue, you are taking in animals that need to be rehomed consistently.
They might have behavioral problems and that sort of thing. And they've usually
come from the pound or the shelter so um
if they haven't already you know if
they haven't been able to be rehomed at the the pound or
the shelter then they'll go off to the smaller rescue groups to hopefully get

(11:57):
more rehabilitation there so it's sort of the first port of call i guess for
animals um that are being seized as well i you know i attended a lot of um you know, house searches,
I guess, where there's dogs there, because the police here in Australia are not trying to deal with.

(12:17):
Animals um so they call us to come and do that
so then if the dog is seized because they're doing a drug
raid or something like that um that that
sort of thing we used to attend to a lot we would attend to dogs hit by cars
or anything you know like maybe on the train tracks or all sorts of different

(12:37):
things and i've even been called out to cows in people's front yards and metro
areas and that that sort of thing,
because we have people who like to get calves and that for Easter time and then
they cook them up, which is not allowed here in the city.
So it's, yeah, I have definitely seen some interesting stuff.

(12:59):
I've seen some absolutely horrific things as well.
But, you know, you're sort of
seeing the best and the worst of humanity working in these environments.
And I mean, people who do it long-term, it affects you after a while.
It's, it's, um, I mean, you know, for me, it was a conscious decision to get

(13:22):
out of welfare, um, in the end.
Um, and that's when I decided to do my university degree for,
I did an arts degree, um, to, and I was actually walking away from the whole
animal industry altogether.
I just, I didn't want to do it anymore. It was just exhausting.
And after I did that, I'm like, you know, you do your university degree and

(13:45):
then you've got to pay for it. Right.
So that's when I ended up working at the council.
So, um, doing their animal management and yeah, I did that for a while and then
decided, well, I don't actually really want to be away from animals.
I just want to be away from the horror of some of the things that happen to animals.

(14:05):
So So that's when I decided, well, I'm going to take photos of dogs.
And it turns out I was really good at it.
Well, yeah, it makes sense, I think, trying to get away from some of the darker
sides of things like that.
And I can only imagine that days of that is going to put an emotional strain

(14:27):
on you and try and do that for year after year is going to be difficult.
Um, so, you know, in a sense now you're, you're, you're enjoying the happier
side of the relationships with the animals. Oh, I certainly am.
Absolutely. It's such a, it's, it's a real joy.
And I am so grateful for the life that me and my husband have created here with Frog Dog Studios.

(14:54):
And it's, um, yeah, I mean, I just couldn't ask for anything better,
to be honest. I'm so happy with the way things have turned out,
even if it wasn't originally what I was going for.
Yeah. And the animal grooming business that you did as well for a while,
I mean, did that kind of then run into the photography a bit?

(15:17):
Because you almost sort of imagine, I know with people sometimes,
they get themselves dolled up a bit, you know, before they're going to have a shoot.
Is that something that you've combined at all, that
kind of bit of pampering and then
then a shoot not really no so when i
was grooming um so that was in the early 2000s pet
photography really wasn't a thing at all

(15:39):
um it was people thought i was crazy driving around to
people's homes and grooming the dogs and thought i'd never make any money
but um i certainly showed them um but
um now that i
the reason why i gave up the the grooming is because it's so physically demanding
and I actually have a degenerative disc
disease in my back so and it's come

(16:01):
from the years of grooming and I've had to yeah I basically had to stop doing
that so I sold the business but what I do here now where I am just a couple
of doors down because I'm in a main street I have there's a groomer who is very
well well-known in Melbourne as well,
and I try to send my clients to her first, and then they come down for their photo shoot.

(16:26):
So she primps and preens them, and then I capture them.
That sounds like a very good partnership, really, that. It is,
it is, yeah, and it all came before she opened up the dog grooming business.
It started out with her just bringing her dogs to me to be photographed first, so it was meant to be.

(16:46):
Yeah it looks like it so the photography side of things you went and got some
um did some formal study got some formal training so what what prompted you
to actually go that route.
So when i first finished up high school um going to uni wasn't really an option
for me um that didn't have the

(17:07):
money um doing an arts degree also wasn't really you know like you know,
get a real job you're never going to make any money kind of doing that sort
of thing um so I did and then when I decided to go back go to you know decided
to break make break away from the welfare industry and I was looking at I was
like well if I'm gonna go and do study I want to study something to do with

(17:30):
art and I just started out doing a diploma in photography
and it's um i started that
when i was 30 so i did that for two
years completed that and then got accepted to
a fine art degree at rmit here in melbourne
and i did that for the next three years so um doing that has has been yeah it's

(17:54):
been an amazing experience and i never actually thought how much impact that
fine art degree would actually have on my creativity and how i I think and see the world now,
but I'm, yeah, I'm really glad that I did something like that.
But it did, it was a moment of, it really was, it was, I tend to do these things

(18:14):
in my life just out of nowhere, I'll get this idea and it's,
it's, it's got to be done.
And that was what the photography was like. It literally came to me one night, this is what I want to do.
You know, I don't know what I want to photograph, you know, but I want to make
art and I want to use a camera doing it. So that's sort of where I started and
it just sort of evolved from there.

(18:35):
That's been 13 years now or so.
So was that then learning the technical aspects of photography and learning
bits about lighting and post-production? Is that what your course has involved?
Yeah, so the initial course, the diploma, is all your technical stuff.
I mean, when I first started doing this, I'd never even held an SLR camera.

(18:57):
Yeah, so it has helped me in informing the technical aspects of what I do,
but also that all that darkroom stuff helped me with Photoshop because Photoshop is the darkroom, right?
And a lot of it is, you know, if you understand Photoshop.

(19:18):
What you're doing in the dark room you can you can bring that
pretty much into photoshop as well so um that that was what i spent the first
two years doing and then once i sort of had a good yeah like it's a two that's
a two-year technical course i guess and then i went and did a fine art degree
which was no technical and and all arty farty stuff basically,

(19:42):
so did you follow particular artists then is
that is that how you how you developed through your fine art degree
do you get introduced to particular artists that you then yeah
absolutely we do so um and i
think that was probably how i'm able to
think outside of the box now um with photographing dogs and and cats and animals

(20:03):
all together so rather than sort of just pointing my camera and taking a portrait
um i i try to tell a story with my work And I think that, yeah,
doing that art degree and learning how to critique art and how to read art and
follow different artists and see why they are choosing the choices that they

(20:28):
choose when they're actually creating their works and things like that.
And really understanding that sort of thing has really helped,
I think, in helping me push my thought process.
Yeah, it's been an interesting journey, actually.

(20:50):
Yeah, so it's actually a funny story. When I was in, I think,
like my second or third year of uni,
I can't remember exactly when, but my university lecturer
showed us a whole bunch of
david edmondson's work and we
talked about you know the the hopper-esque mess of his

(21:10):
work and and the lighting and you know the storytelling and all that sort of
thing behind it and then when i actually i mean years later i've come into this
world and i have met david now i've met him at wppi quite a few years ago and
was able to say to him how this is so weird and random because,

(21:30):
you know, a lot of the time in art history and things like that you're studying
people, they're already gone.
They've already passed on. And then, you know, I was at WPPI and I was like,
oh, my God, that's that guy.
And being able to go up to somebody and speak to them and then,
yeah, it was a really surreal experience.

(21:52):
I bet, yeah. Yeah, and he happened to judge one of my images,
that WPPI, and gave it a hundred.
So I was like, well, this is pretty good.
You decided you liked him from
then on, yeah. Well, yeah, it was a great experience, that's for sure.

(22:13):
But, yeah, from uni to real life was really nice.
So was it just photographers that you studied or did you study other art forms
as well with the fine art?
I only created using photography.
I did do a little bit of printmaking and things like that, but it's just sort
of, it was more just experimental stuff.

(22:34):
But my main goal has always been photography, but I don't generally follow photographers
as artists, to be quite honest.
So I'm generally looking at painting, movies, TV shows, like,
that are, like, using creative lighting,
creative moods, like, thinking, you know, where you can see that the intention

(22:57):
in what they've chosen to do, I guess, like, in different sort of TV shows and things like that.
Um you know like a few years ago
there was a tv show called true detective um with
i think the first season had matthew mcconaughey in it or
something like that i can't entirely remember but the opening sequence on that

(23:17):
was just stunning and just studying that and looking at the color palette and
why things were placed where they were and the compositional elements and and
that sort of thing that's the kind of thing that inspires me um i love to see
something different and I love to see a story.
So, yeah, I generally don't follow other pet photographers too much at all.

(23:38):
I mean, obviously I've got some friends and stuff like that.
We're all friends on Facebook. I see their work and things like that.
But it's not something that I'll sit down and study.
I prefer, yeah, that cinematic sort of style and, yeah.
Yeah, it helps you to develop your own look to images rather than just seeing,

(23:59):
you know, that you're a derivative of somebody else. I mean,
we're all influenced by somebody, by what we see.
You kind of can't help that. But it's nice to look outside of the norm. It is.
I've said to people before, my background initially was in languages.
I was a linguist. So the way I now tend to look at images is often kind of from

(24:21):
that perspective as it's saying something.
So unpicking it a little bit like that and thinking, well, what kind of lighting,
What kind of colours do I want in there to create a particular mood, a particular feeling?
And, you know, so I was influenced in my photography by my background as a linguist.
So all these things come together and feed together to help make you,

(24:44):
you know, an individual artist.
Absolutely. I think it's really important to keep yourself as an individual
artist and embracing your own personality, the quirks and all of it and bringing that with you.
And using that to develop your own style and voice is really important.

(25:05):
You know, the world is full of photographers and if you want to be a leader
in that, doing what other people do.
Is probably going to stifle you
a little bit um if you're just like i really like
what that person does so i'm going to learn how to do that
style i mean that's that's great if

(25:28):
you're doing you just want to do client work and you're going to make money
and you know churn and burn sort of stuff you know that that can work but if
you've got a creative itch if you're a creative person like me you're constantly
wanting to push the boundaries and you can't do that by um you know,
looking at something that inspires you and going, I'm just going to learn how to do that.

(25:50):
You need to go, what is it about that inspires me? What have they done here
that makes me want to do that as well?
And take a little bit of that and then bring something else from somewhere else
or, you know, from your own background or your own stories,
your own history and mash it all together and, you know, hopefully then you've

(26:13):
created something that's somewhat original, you know.
You know, it's like you said, it's really hard to be original these days.
I mean, it's all been done before and it's all out there on the internet for
everybody to see, right?
So it's just sort of like if you really consciously try and just take the inspiration.
So, yes, I really like that colour palette that person used or,

(26:36):
oh, I haven't done that pose before with a dog or, you know, whatever.
And then just kind of bring those little elements in and try and make it your own, you know.
Like with the images that I've been creating over the last couple of years where
I'm documenting animals like growing up from, you know, babies to 12 months

(26:58):
old, I mean, that's not an original idea.
That's something that, I mean, has been done forever. forever
and but the way that i present it um and the way that i try and tell that story
is different each time so i'm not i'm not even copying myself each time you
know what i mean because otherwise i'm not pushing myself i'm not creating any

(27:20):
something new it's like you've got to try and.
Yeah, just try and put your own spin on it, put your own personality into it.
So do you think it's then from things like movies that you developed your more
sort of storyboarding kind of style?
So where you've got multiple images together that suggest a story like that.

(27:41):
Is that where that came from?
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I've never really thought about exactly where that idea came from.
I know the first one that I did was the pug catching food and that was literally
taken in a series of one, two, three, four, five shots.

(28:02):
Like it was just high shutter, you know, really fast.
And I got that sequence in a couple of seconds and I was like, this is amazing.
And this is how I'm going to present it and did that. And then I sort of,
when I'm starting to do other work, I'm like, well, you know,

(28:23):
how can this story be told?
And sometimes that is beneficial, you know, having those little tiny individual
stories that make up a whole story that can really bring the work together.
So, yeah. And funnily enough, I've actually consciously moved away from that
with the work that I'm creating this year. I thought I need to give that a break.

(28:47):
Well there is a risk that you start to get known as the person that does that
you know so when an image in that style comes up and then people start to copy
you yes and then yeah you know judges see it and they think oh they assume it's one of yours or whatever,
it's yeah it's tricky when you come up with something that is fairly distinctive
looking like that it it will get copied yes yeah of course yeah yeah well it's

(29:12):
um it's a shame but i mean it Well, that's not even a shame.
I mean, it's quite the compliment if somebody's trying to do what you're doing, I guess.
I would like to encourage people to, like I said, be inspired by what I do or
what they like and try and push it a bit further.
Because if they push it a bit further, then I might push it a bit further next time, you know.

(29:34):
Then we all just get better. Exactly. I think we all benefit in that way.
We keep innovating, you know.
Good for us. So would you say then that, um, creativity is your main motivator?
Is that the main thing that gets you going or is there, is there something else
that gets you out of bed in the morning?

(29:55):
Yeah. Look, I love business as well.
Um, and I love my clients, but they are expecting a product from me.
And so I have a product that I deliver and it's a distinctive style that's mine.
Um, but I don't do a lot of the stuff that I do say for competitions and stuff for my clients.

(30:19):
Um, there's two, there's a couple of reasons for that. First of all,
um, I like to have creative freedom and occasionally I will get clients that
will let me do that, which is amazing.
But most of the time they just want the product that, you know,
they say on my website or on my Instagram.
Um, so turning that out, you know, over and over and over again can become quite draining.

(30:40):
I mean, anyone who does anything, you know, like they're on a hamster wheel
gets over it eventually.
Um, so what I've done here basically is I've like, I've tried to create this
business that creates enough money for me, um,
and, and my husband so that we can, you know, have the life that we want,
but in the least amount of time possible so that the rest of the time I have time to create.

(31:03):
Um, because that's when I'm at my absolute happy happiest.
And one of the great things is, is that I've been able to intertwine both because
what I do during client session is I get everything that I need knowing that
this is what the client wants.
And so that then they can go on to have their, their IPS appointment and choose
their images and create their wall art.

(31:25):
But at the end of that session, if the dog's still got steam or the cat's still
got steam and I see something special in that dog, we just play around.
And that's where I get most of my competition images from so like that like
i said the one the pug with catching the the,
the treats you know the dog looked like a pixar character and i was like i have
got to get something that um that shows this dog's personality and that's what

(31:51):
we came up with you know i've,
All the ones that are growing up sessions, they're all clients.
Some of them have let me just go ahead and make the artwork for them.
They don't have any input into it and then they get it and they're, you know, very happy.
Most of them, I will just do the stock standard, you know, the book with them

(32:13):
growing up and whatever.
And then I take the images later on and I'll do my own thing with it.
And then I usually just send them a file or something like that so that they're,
you know, and they're happy with that as well.
So it's kind of, yeah, it's a great way to sort of integrate it because I have
this constant stream of different animals coming into the studio and it's the

(32:34):
surprising ones, the surprises that you get sometimes that make the best images.
You know, you can plan out these amazing shoots and get props and,
you know, the story that you want to tell or whatever, But it's the ones that
come in here and then they just give you a surprising facial expression or they
do a trick that you've never seen a dog do before or something like that.

(32:57):
And then, you know, you come up
with a concept around that's inspired or informed by the actual subjects.
So, yeah, it's sort of tried to create this world where I'm still able to actually
create at least one day a week.
Yeah i think it's good for you because if
when you have got that sort of creativity at heart if

(33:18):
you don't you can soon start to fall out
of love with it when you're just going through the motions of the uh
the mechanics of it so especially if you
can connect it with an actual client session and do
it on the end just a bit like i might do with the product sometimes as
you take the shots that you know they want and then you take two or
three extra ones that are a bit quirky they might see

(33:38):
that and think oh actually i'll have a copy of that yeah but
if they if they don't well at least you've still
you've got something you can play with that's exactly right you've scratched
that itch you know to to create something a bit
different as well and i think it's really
important um if you create you know creatively
minded um to to really nurture

(33:58):
that because that then gives i know for me
if i don't have a chance to actually sit down
and work on my own own personal projects um on a
regular basis it it sucks the life out of me and therefore i don't take the
energy into my actual professional business and the clients that i deal with
on a daily basis it i don't take that the good energy with me so kind of need to nurture both um.

(34:26):
Which is one of the reasons why i do competition because once i've created all
this stuff it's like I'm like, well, what am I going to do with it now?
Get it out as much as, you know.
Might as well win another reward with it, yeah. Just put it out there,
you know. Otherwise, nobody sees it, you know.
It's sort of, yeah. So it's, I mean, I initially started off doing competition

(34:47):
to push myself and I still, I mean, that's still a really good main reason why
I do it because it also gives you a reason to create.
But I actually initially started doing it to help my business grow and get traction
and to also just get into like a community of people in the photography industry
because I wasn't part of that previously.

(35:08):
Previously um so that was
a really great way of getting recognition
for the business um and getting
gaining client trust and things like that um so
you found it has actually helped directly with with your
clients they're having absolutely having the awards absolutely so just about

(35:30):
every animal that i've had that's in in any of my images especially in the beginning
training were all clients and there were ones that were informed by a look or
something that the dog had given me during the session.
So taking that, being successful with it is obviously a key thing here because

(35:50):
people love to attach themselves to success.
And that, I mean, if you're, if your dog or your kid is a subject in a,
in a, um, an award-winning photograph.
I mean, that's, that's something that it makes them very proud and excited.
And, you know, like I said, I always give them a copy of it and things like that.

(36:12):
So then they're talking to people and then, you know, if you've got that success
and you're, you get into the paper and it's there, oh, my, their dog's in the
paper, you know, I send them the links to all of the stories online and things
like they talk to everybody about it.
And now people have got to know me as that person as well.
Yes, I am that award-winning photographer and they come to me for that.

(36:36):
And it's, yeah, I know a lot of photographers say that it doesn't actually help
them with their business, but I completely disagree with that.
I think that it has not only helped my confidence, but it's helped my clients
have confidence in me and therefore they talk about me. and,
you know, if they're talking about you, it's awesome.

(36:58):
Well, word of mouth is invaluable, isn't it? Yeah. If you can get word of mouth
going, then that's the best thing.
Absolutely. That's the best way of your business being promoted.
And, yeah, and if you haven't got to start it, if they're doing it off their
own back, you know, they're excited so they want to share it,
that's absolutely ideal for you.
It is. It is. And, I mean, it's really not that hard to get your dog images

(37:23):
into local papers and, you know, to get recognition for stuff like that.
Everybody wants to look at dog images, so why not use it, leverage it and, and yeah.
So if I keep doing that and then their clients keep coming in,
then they keep paying me for that. I can keep creating. And it's just a nice little circle.
Yeah, it all feeds in nicely. Yeah. So what about then with the business side of it?

(37:47):
You kind of hinted at earlier that you don't mind that because some photographers,
when they go into the business side of things,
some feel a bit lost and some just feel downright bored because they've got
to deal with numbers and they've got structures and all these kind of things
that they don't necessarily.
Necessarily want to have to fit into so how
is what's your relationship like with business and

(38:10):
do you have to bring any kind of creativity into it
to make it bearable for you i think um yes i do have to bring creativity to
it um and i do that through my marketing and i've always i mean this isn't my
first business i had the dog grooming business was um my first business and
i did that quite successfully for about seven years.

(38:30):
And then I had a subway franchise as well. So I've sort of been in business most of my adult life.
And this is just the next, the next step for me.
I was a bit lost in the beginning. I've never had a photography business.
Um, and they certainly don't teach you about that at art school. That's for sure.
Um, so yes, it was daunting, but I I knew enough to ask for help.

(38:56):
And I think that's a big thing.
You know, one of the first things that I did as soon as I could afford it was
I employed the services of Mark Rosetto, who I noticed is on the podcast recently.
So, you know, he was with me right at the beginning and we spent a lot of time together.
You know, obviously, like I said, I had an idea of what I was doing,

(39:18):
but I needed actual real direction from somebody
who knew who had lived and breathed it and Mark helped me
with that and um so that was
probably the the best thing that
I like the the best knowledge that I had was that I
knew I needed to ask for help and I think that's um sometimes
yeah sometimes it takes people a long time to

(39:40):
ask for help and they struggle through it for years before they
go oh god I could there's actually somebody out there
who could help me with this um so yeah
instead of spending five grand on a camera i spent five grand on
getting mark to to help me so i think that sort
of helped a lot in the beginning um but with the when i had the dog grooming
business one of the things that i found um there was how to get creative with

(40:05):
marketing so we're talking about a time with no social media or anything like
that so it was just Just being at, um,
being at every event you possibly can be at, um, anything that's free.
Cause you know, you also don't have a whole lot of money, you know,
you can't be paying thousands of dollars. Um, it's a dog grooming business.
It's, you know, it's, it's got a limit on how much money you can make.

(40:28):
So there's a limit on how much money you can spend and.
Just one of the things that I did was just get creative with things.
And, and that's what I did when I opened up Frog Dog Studios.
I just, that, that was probably my strong point is figuring out my branding
and my messaging and then figuring out, um, then getting creative with my marketing.
And I've told this story before, um, when I've done talks, but one of the best

(40:53):
things I ever did is I sat here one day and I was like, it's like two months
into this and I've had a handful full of clients, but definitely not enough.
What am I going to do? So obviously here in Victoria, Australian rules football
is really, really popular.
I went to my friends, I borrowed their football jumpers. I put them on my dogs at home.

(41:14):
I took photos of them. I photoshopped them into football
grounds and I sent them to the biggest newspaper here
in Victoria and they rang me within in 15 minutes and that saturday they i was
in half page on the second page and then a full spread in the middle of the
paper of my artwork and i just haven't looked back since really so um it's.

(41:38):
It was just an idea off the cuff. At the end of the day, it cost me no money and just my time.
And that launched everything for me from there.
You never really know what's going to work. Sometimes people can suggest things
that have worked for them, but they don't work for you for whatever reason and so on.

(41:59):
It can be quite difficult finding that combination of things or just finding
something that kicks something off. I mean, presumably you've had marketing,
well, let's not call them failures, but sort of things you've tried that haven't
gone as well as you might have hoped.
Yeah, absolutely. And you learn, I find with things that haven't worked is then

(42:22):
you need to figure out why.
Don't just throw it aside. You need to figure out why.
So initially in that first year of business, I signed up to do what we call
the dog lover show here. us.
So there's about 40,000 people come through the exhibition buildings on a weekend over three days.
It's, you know, it costs you quite a lot of money to be there,

(42:44):
but I found the money and I did it.
And it didn't actually get me clients that first time, like I thought it would. Right.
So, but it was my first expo. I didn't know what I was doing that well.
I'm quite an introverted person around people I don't know. So I'm not the,
I'm not the ideal person to be talking to people and I didn't have the confidence.

(43:05):
But I've done that now every single year since then.
So we've done it for six years, seven years in a row, aside from the years of
COVID that it didn't happen.
And now I know exactly what I'm doing, why it didn't work the first time,
why it was a little bit better the second time, third time, and it just got better and better.

(43:25):
And now that is the the only marketing I do every single year because it fills
my calendar for the entire year.
So it's sometimes I think that a little bit of perseverance and analysis and
critical thinking about why something isn't working and trying again is definitely
needed to make these things work.

(43:48):
I was going to say some people might think, well, especially if it's a more
expensive form of marketing, if I've tried it and I haven't got results,
move on. I'll do something else.
But you've found that actually, you know, strategically you'd worked out that
this was something that would work in the longer term.
It was something that, you know, for various reasons would need to be done more

(44:09):
than once. Well, absolutely.
And that can be a difficult decision to make sometimes.
It can be. And, I mean, I didn't have the money for it, especially the first
few years, you know. So I would put it on the credit card and hope and pray
that I would make enough money back to pay for it as I was going.
Now I don't need to do that, which is great. I have the money set aside for

(44:31):
that every year and whatnot.
But I wouldn't be able to do that if I hadn't have just persevered.
So the reason why I persevere and keep making that decision to go back is because
I'm looking at this show that is bringing in millions of dollars over three
days and the big companies are all there and they're there every single year.

(44:54):
And then there's the same sort of medium and small companies that are there every single year.
And yes, you do see the ones that come and go, they'll do it one year,
throw their hands up, never come back, all that sort of stuff.
But it's the people who were constantly showing up and tweaking things and And
people come looking for my stand now because they know that I'm going to have

(45:16):
a rip-roaring special on.
And they saw us and talked to us the year before and the year before that.
And they want to know about, you know, how you're doing and all that sort of
stuff. And they're finally ready to book in.
And it's just consistency, I think, with things like that.
And I think that's like with any marketing, really. Consistency is key.
I mean, you know, you can't sort of just show up once, throw your hands up and move on. It's a...

(45:43):
Would you say relationships an important aspect of it for your type of photography as well?
It's a relationship with clients or forming those relationships? I guess so.
I mean, it's not something that I concentrate on a lot, but I do make friends
with a lot of my clients, like, you know, acquaintances, friends,

(46:04):
like people that when I do go to the Dog Lovers show, they come and find me,
say, hi, how are you going?
Tell me all about how the dog's doing, that sort of thing. um and
while they're here in the studio i really
do try to make them feel comfortable obviously both
the dog and the people and it's it's all a
very friendly and relaxed experience um

(46:25):
so there are those relationships definitely that are the worthwhile nurturing
and even just and nurturing them afterwards i mean i know we've all got email
lists and things like that but just you know Following your clients on Instagram
and then when their dog pops up and it's their birthday, giving it a happy birthday.
Everybody else reads the comments, sees that you've done that.

(46:49):
And I think if it comes from a place of genuine love or whatever you want to
call it, it's important.
Like I said, it's not something I think about too much. I just do it.
Yeah, if it's coming naturally, then that's great really.
Yeah, because for so many people, trying to get into that rhythm of finding

(47:13):
the way that their business is going to work can be a real struggle, can be a bit of a fight.
They'll try one thing, they'll try something else, and they'll think,
do I persevere with it? Do I not?
And people can be very uncertain in that time and spend a lot of money and not
feel like they're getting very far.
So do I need to you

(47:33):
know if I'm going to be a pet photographer yes I need treats for the animals but
do I need treats for the owners you know to keep them happy and all
that kind of thing there's a lot that you can
potentially disappear off down a rabbit hole and get obsessed with and yeah
you know lose sight of the bigger picture you can and I see this quite a lot
within Facebook business groups and things like that should I do this should

(47:54):
I do that I'm making these welcome packs and I'm making these things to packs
to put in when I give them their order and that sort of thing.
And that's not where your focus should be.
In my opinion, I think what you should be doing is focusing on the experience
that you're giving that client when they actually do come to see you,

(48:15):
you know, it's always who, who doesn't like a little trinket?
Obviously, yes, we all do. But most of the time, those little trinkets end up
in the bin, even fridge magnets these days, People don't use them.
We've got everything that we need on our phone.
I haven't had a business card for seven years because if somebody asks me for
my business card, I tell them to open up Instagram and there I am right there.

(48:37):
That's how you can get hold of me.
A business card goes into a pocket or wallet or in the bin.
And nobody, you know, uses it again. And it's the same with all those sort of
little, you know, adding those little things to orders and that.
Yes, they're nice, but that's not why your clients are going to come back.

(48:57):
They're going to come back because they remember how you made them feel and
how, like in my case, how I made their animal feel as well, which makes the owner feel amazing.
So concentrate more on those things. And those things are free.
Free you can't substitute um the sort
of the the genuineness and the those sorts of
things which you can do for free with with the kind of bought extras

(49:20):
that doesn't really that doesn't really work you know if
it hasn't been an enjoyable session they're not suddenly going
to love you because you've given them a mug with a picture on it or something
that's exactly right that's exactly right and
i mean we deal with animals here we can't control how
the animal's going to behave and if they're going to be frightened or
if it's it's it might not always be a

(49:41):
positive experience I mean 99% of the time it's
a it's a wonderful experience but occasionally you'll just get a dog in
here who just you cannot settle it it's just not going it's just not going to
work but what you'd like to how you've treated that client and along that whole
way and treated that dog is what they're going to remember you for and although

(50:02):
you didn't get any images to actually sell to the client.
They've paid their session fee. You've done your best.
You've treated the client with respect and love the whole way through.
You've loved on the dog and done everything you possibly can to get this,
like not forcing this dog to do so, but to help this dog get over its fear.

(50:23):
And that's what your clients remember. You know, they don't go away and go,
oh, she didn't know what she was doing.
You know, she doesn't know how to do this. They go away
going well I don't know whether there was anything
else that that person could have done and I'm gonna
tell my friends that you know so yes it's you can you know if you if you treat

(50:44):
people prop yeah correctly then you can turn any negative into a positive yeah
and I can imagine as well if you were this if you're the sort of person that
likes to fuss around an awful lot with your lighting and you're not giving the
attention to your subject.
It's not going to, it's not going to go so well. You've got to kind of get the technical elements.
You've got to just have them so that they're automatic and you're not really thinking about it.

(51:07):
Um, so you can really be fully present with your, with your client,
with the, with their pet.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, that's, you know, that's what we've created
here. We've got to go to lighting setup.
They have a choice of two backgrounds. You can go for the light,
light background or the dark background.
And it's basically the gray or a bone color. um

(51:27):
so i've got two different lighting setups for
the different color backgrounds and that's it and i
don't touch the lights the settings are all the same they and
that's the way it stays for a client session now if
i'm actually going to then start doing something that i'm
thinking for awards or you know creativity or you
know creating something else i'll definitely be fluffing around

(51:48):
with lights but for every day um every
day you know client work it's it's a
routine it's a you know this is how it needs to be done because this is the
way it works the best yeah and people also get used to seeing it and that's
kind of almost your signature look overall that the way you light it the way

(52:09):
you retouch it yeah that's your product it's consistency yeah yeah absolutely Absolutely.
So what would you say then if someone was thinking about starting out as a pet
photographer, what would you say are the sort of essential qualities,
essential things that they would need?
Well, um, I think obviously, like we talked about before, having some sort of

(52:33):
idea on how to work with animals is definitely your first port of call.
I mean, you can learn how to use your camera and your lighting and that sort
of stuff relatively easily, but if you cannot get a rapport with an animal, um,
then you're never going to, I don't think that you're going to be successful in pet photography.

(52:55):
I mean there are a lot of photographers out there
who are who are turning to pet photography at the moment because
it's um one of the the genres that haven't
been hit as hard as others with the
cost of living crisis and things like that um and what I mean by that is that
my clients don't have children they have dogs so they've got a disposable income

(53:15):
um so I know a lot of photographers are doing that but it's sort of like if
you've got no idea how to don't don't expect the owner to to know what to do.
So many times I see the owners come in here and they think they know their dogs,
but they don't. They misinterpret the body language.
They see something, a dog panting and wagging its tail as a happy dog.

(53:40):
It's not necessarily a happy dog. It could be a really anxious dog.
And they don't always know the other sort of small things to look out for.
And I think if you're going to work with animals as a
professional you need to be able to do that because it's
up to you to call it quits if the dogs
in any kind of distress or danger or anything like that or any animal for you

(54:03):
know not just not just dogs and I have had clients in here that want to keep
pushing it when their dogs not cooperating and things like that and I've had to be firm and say no.
We've got enough. We've got everything we need to actually work with,
you know, or sorry, we couldn't get it today, but I'm not going to keep pushing

(54:24):
this because I can see that this is not, not working and it's not safe to go on any further.
So you, as, as a, yeah, like I said, as a professional working with animals,
you need to be able to recognize these things. So get yourself experience doing that.
There's plenty of different ways to do it. Like I said, volunteer at your shelter, go do a course,
read some books, there's YouTube channels just get out

(54:46):
there and be amongst it go to your dog park and and start studying
dog behavior and things like that um and that
will help the next thing i guess then is to if you want to run a business get
some business training um i mean even if you know you've got the most beautiful
ability with camera with your camera and and able to capture a dog's personality

(55:10):
and essence and things like that.
If you don't know how to run a business, then you're not going to be doing it for very long.
So don't buy the new camera. Don't buy the new lens. If you've got a camera
and a lens, that's all you need.
Go and spend the money on a business coach.
It is worth every cent. And I mean, if you can do a one-on-one,

(55:30):
if you can afford one-on-one, there's a lot of memberships and stuff out there
that are a lot more affordable.
I mean, if that's all you can afford, then that's what you should do.
But if you can afford to spend it for one-on-one, you're You're going to get there a lot faster.
So, yeah, just get amongst that sort of thing.
And then just remember that it's supposed to be fun.
Everything that we do here, we're hanging out with animals, so it's just supposed

(55:54):
to be fun, so have fun with it, you know.
I think that's an important point, really,
you know, not just to see it as, oh, look, here's a genre of photography that's still making money,
so I'll go into that because I want to make a little bit more money and
seeing it as a cash cow to be milk dry sort of thing but
you know actually really thinking about the genre is it something you're going

(56:16):
to enjoy is it something that you can really do naturally like that um because
with it's like with with with when you're taking pictures of people with slight
differences in the way that someone holds themselves.
Can make a huge difference in in the look of an image and it's
it's the same it's the same with animals it's not just the big body

(56:37):
expressions it's the smaller ones as well
which can make the difference between them looking
happy or sort of rather fed up yeah yeah
absolutely and i mean it's i mean i shoot here
on you know high speed burst mode
and i've got the pro photos to make sure that i
don't miss any frames and the that's the reason

(56:58):
why i do it because literally i can do you know
a set of five shots at one after the other and the
the slightest movement in their eye or
nose or something can make them look like they're in
a completely different mood so um it's yeah
it is but those nuances are important um i think in any kind of photography

(57:18):
really um but definitely i know for pet photography it is it's you know i can
show somebody two different images that look almost the same but they give two
completely different emotions or feelings you know.
So when you're buying kit as well you're also thinking
very much about what is going to serve the purpose rather

(57:39):
than just what's the latest version what's the
snazziest version i mean yes okay you
could say something like a pro photo is not the cheapest light but there's
a reason for getting something like that because you
don't want to be pressing it waiting four seconds for the
light to recharge before you
can take another shot you know your style of photography kind of requires that

(58:01):
it work a bit quicker absolutely and people say you do hear people say things
like you know it's not about the gear and all that sort of stuff all the time
and to a certain degree i can attest to that so i started out here with a nikon d800.
And i had a 35 mil nikon lens but not the good one the one that cost under 300

(58:22):
dollars That's all I had.
And I had a 50mm lens, but I never used that in the studio. I've got a small
space. I needed something wider.
But my lights were the Elinchrom RX4 monoblocks.
They're like $1,500 for three of them. They're relatively cheap.
I'd been using them since I was at uni.

(58:44):
And I used those for the first four years of my career.
And it's exactly what you said it was. It's, um, click the button, wait.
And you're missing so many moments in between that. And, you know,
we tried to do high speed sync and all that sort of stuff.
But you know what? I made money. I won awards using that equipment.

(59:07):
But when I was able to buy the pro photos and the new Sony gear,
the new Sony equipment with it, you know, it's just obviously technology.
My camera was about 12 years old by the time I upgraded.
So the technology has obviously advanced a lot.
And it was like having this amazing new tool in my, in my, in my kit,

(59:32):
you know, like I could create things that I could never create using the other equipment.
So yes, you can do just fine with the equipment that you've got,
but once you get to the point where you can actually afford the good stuff,
there's a reason I choose the Profotos and not Godox because the Godox can't
keep up with the pro photos,
they can't, they just can't shoot fast enough to freeze the motion of a moving dog.

(59:56):
Um, the pro photos are the only ones I've ever found that can do that.
So if, you know, I don't have to shoot in, I can't shoot in a black studio because
I need to be able to focus and my dogs are always moving.
So it's not like I can do like, you can sort of
black out the studio to freeze the action
i have to have ambient light in here so it

(01:00:19):
you need the the d2s are the only ones
that i found that can actually overpower that ambient light and still freeze
that motion really easily you know that combined with the sony um a7r4 or whatever
it is that i'm using um it's just been a godsend it's been it's an amazing together

(01:00:39):
they work together so well and
I've seen my work and consistency go from here to here and it's also saved me
so much time in the post-processing, you know, because,
you know, you've got consistency of light colour and quality of light and things like that, whereas,
you know, you're using the Elinchrom Monoblocks there.
I mean, they're cheap for a reason. It's, you know, Elinchrom do have really

(01:01:03):
good equipment, but I didn't have their really good equipment.
I had their bare-bones basic equipment. So, you know, every flash was a different
colour and, you know, like you said, you've got to wait for...
You know four seconds for it to recharge and yeah all
that sort of stuff so yeah equipment can be important i guess is

(01:01:24):
the short answer to that yeah but it's also something
you can work you can work towards sometimes people can fall into that trap of
thinking well what is my optimal set of kit and i want to start with that and
you think well that might be nice but you know sometimes you need to work towards
these things when i started out i had a couple of speed lights and people were saying,

(01:01:45):
oh, you can't really do product photography with speedlights.
And I did manage to put them through sort of soft boxes and so on.
But because my studio is very small and everything's all in fairly close and
that anyway, I could make it work. It was okay.
Yeah, you learn to manage with what you've got. Yeah, I wouldn't want to work like that now.
And the lights I've got are more powerful and so on and so forth.

(01:02:08):
But, you know, you learn as well. I think it's good for your creativity because
you become a problem solver.
If you haven't got everything on your on your served on
a plate to you as easy as it could possibly be yeah you
have to learn i totally agree and i mean
the problem solving that we did in those first few years with you know having
to manage with what we had it was worth it though because like i said instead

(01:02:31):
of spending the money on new camera and equipment and stuff like that i spent
it on getting somebody to help me grow this business which is the long-term plan right that's
the long game because now i can buy whatever equipment
i want so if i had have bought the camera
instead of got the business coaching then i would have

(01:02:52):
a camera but it would not be making any money yeah so
yeah all the kit and no business yeah i think you don't want it that way around
do you know yeah so i mean obviously we've all got to make make a living out
of these things if you discovered another genre that you could do that was potentially
more lucrative say it was people or something like that would you switch? No.

(01:03:17):
Never I I love what
I do I really do um you know
I've got no interest in photographing people whatsoever I'm
I'm not um it definitely doesn't suit my
personality style the only thing that I've actually been looking
at lately is starting to learn a little bit more about wildlife photography
just because I'm looking for a bit more of a challenge but um mostly to just

(01:03:40):
scratch really at this point it's um i'm not interested really in in moving
away from animals at all so,
yes it you know it comes across it as being really a passion for you it's it's
something that you really connect with so yeah i'm i'm glad i'm glad to hear

(01:04:01):
it you know sometimes with people you dangle a bit more money in front of them
and they'll just run after that carrot you know oh it It would have to be a
significant amount of money, to be quite honest with you.
It's, yeah, I love what I do. I mean, who doesn't want to hang out with animals
all day? Dogs are the best.

(01:04:21):
Do you still have goals then for your
business are there still uh perhaps awards you
want to win or are there still um stages you want
to get your business to uh are you happy with how things are
um for now and ticking along there are
always goals joe what's the
point in getting up in the morning i have many many

(01:04:43):
goals um most of it like
i'm pretty happy with where the business is at the moment it's consistent
I know how much money's going to come in every year
you know it's just maintaining that at the moment
my other goals at the moment is I'm
starting to do a lot more mentoring and speaking
workshops that sort of thing so I'm working on a new website at the moment for

(01:05:07):
that side of things to help teach other people how to do studio pet photography
I see that there's a lot of education around pet photography out there,
but most of it is out there in natural light conditions.
Outdoor photography, I don't do any of that. I don't like the great outdoors
that much, so I keep everything inside my studio.

(01:05:32):
And I would really like to pass on a lot of the knowledge that I've got now
in how to do that and really sort of mentor people.
So I'm putting stuff together for that at the moment. That's a bit of a medium-term goal at the moment.
There's always competitions I want to win that I haven't quite been able to nab yet.
So we just keep trying.
That sort of thing, yeah. And I want to do, I mean, I've been traveling a bit,

(01:05:57):
obviously, around the world doing
some different workshops and speaking engagements and things like that.
My goal this year is to get on the WPPI speakers list. So if anyone was to put
in a good word for me, that'd be wonderful.
But that's a goal at the moment that I'm working towards and yeah.

(01:06:19):
Yeah, we'll just keep plodding along and making art and being happy. Great.
Well, that is the main thing, yeah. So if people want to keep up with what you're
doing and see these things develop, where's the best place to go?
So I have my business website, which is just frogdogstudios.com.au.

(01:06:41):
I've got my personal creative website, which is belindarichards.com.
You can find me on all the normal social channels, either at Belinda Richards
Artist or at Frog Dog Studios.
Yeah, I think I'm on all of the platforms. I've got the handle for all of them.
So, yeah, it's pretty easy to find me.

(01:07:04):
Yeah, and you're always welcome to get in touch too if you've got any questions.
Excellent. Thank you very much. Well, it's been great having you on the podcast.
It's been really interesting learning more about your story and encourage people
to go and take a look at the artwork.
That's great. Thanks, Joe. It's been an actual real pleasure to be here.
That's great to hear. Thank you very much for being on the podcast and thank

(01:07:25):
you everybody for listening.
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