October 24, 2025 • 51 mins
Episode thirteen of Food, Flowers, & Fun: Visits with farm women from around the world features Azure Cygler of Rhody Wild Sea Gardens as we discuss:
- Raising sugar kelp and oysters
- Thinking globally; acting locally
- Knowing when to push on and when to lay off
- Contributing versus extracting
- Much, much more!
You will love this intuitive and purpose-driven aquaculture farmer!
About Azure:
Azure Cygler has been on the ocean her entire life, from playing in the ocean to commercial fishing in Alaska and American Samoa to working in science and outreach. She has a husband and 2 children who love being outside in all seasons. They live year-round in Narragansett, RI USA and strive to live lives of kindness, environmental and community service, and purpose. When the weather allows, Azure checks on her growing kelp with a kayak, enjoying the calm of the winter and the surprises that await when she pulls up a kelp line!
Connect with Azure at:
- Website: https://rhodywildseagardens.com/
- Instagram and Facebook: @RhodyKelp
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/azurecygler/
Connect with K at:
- Website: https://www.penlightfarmers.com
- YouTube: @k.castrataro3466
- Facebook and Instagram: @penlightfarmers
- Podcast (audio): https://www.penlightfarmers.com/podcast
- Podcast (video): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIVBn53rrIsTwS4ag6hH4DHnxG_Lxqt7x
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
K Castrataro (00:00):
How do you keep your farm life grounded in times
(00:03):
of crisis? Listen in asaquaculture farmer Azure Cygler
talks about Farm Fridays on thewater, checking in with the
earth, and following yourheart...all on this episode of
Food, Flowers and Fun. You
Unknown (00:26):
if you're the woman who does it all, farm work,
housework, book work, homework,getting up at the break of dawn.
This is the podcast for you. Howdo you get away from the cares
of the day. Restock rootstock,feedstock, seed stock. Chat with
(00:47):
women around the world to raisefood, flowers and fun
with your host, kay Castrataro,that's me.
K Castrataro (00:57):
Well, hello everybody, and welcome to Food,
Flowers and Fun (01:00):
Visits with farm women from around the
world. As always, we aresponsored by Pen Light for
Farmers, who is helping farmersto make more satisfying,
efficient and peaceful farmlives. Yes, you too can have
that. And our guest today isamazing. Her name is Azure
(01:21):
Cygler, and she is here in RhodeIsland. She is actually
positioned at this presentmoment in the greenhouses at the
University of Rhode Island. AndI used to work there 100 years
ago. So looking at this isreally, really, very, very
beautiful for me.
So Azure, welcome. Oh, and sheis the owner of Rhody Kelp,
(01:43):
correct? That is your businessname, and she's going to tell us
all about what it is to farmkelp, which I just think is
fascinating, because I love thewhole idea of seaweedy type
stuff. So as you're welcome,thank you for having me. I'm
grateful to be here.
Unknown (02:03):
So, you know, we usually just get in and I, I
start with having you tell usabout yourself, where you're
from, how you got into kelp,like, What a great story you
have. So share that with us.Thank you. Yes, my company is
Rhody Wild Sea Gardens. RhodyKelp is always the most logical
way of remembering it, which isthrough my Instagram. But I
(02:26):
started really grew up in theocean arena. I grew up in
Southern California. Alwaysloved the sea.
Took scuba diving with my dad.Grew you know, grew up surfing
down in La Jolla. So alwaysloved the ocean. And really, you
know, saw the ocean as needingthe most help in terms of
(02:48):
fisheries. So got took mycollege path through the
University of Santa Cruz, doing,you know, marine biology, but
then really focused onfisheries. You know, there was,
we have a tendency to overextract us crazy humans. So
there were some thoughts andissues around fisheries. So I
got into the world of oceancareer work and studied
(03:14):
fisheries and became afisherman. So I fished in Alaska
and American Samoa, andeventually led me to Cape Cod,
where I work with somegrassroots fishing
organizations. So fishing wassort of my, my deep dive, no pun
intended, into the ocean worldand ocean work. And then did a
lot of science and outreach andwork for the Science Center,
Woods Hole, for NOAA Fisheries.And, you know, sort of dappled
(03:37):
but all of that, I feel hasculminated into lived
experiences, which have broughtme into aquaculture. And I
started my own farm in 2020 Icall it a career chiropractic,
where I sort of adjusted where Ifelt I could be most of use into
in terms of where the oceancould use a little love, and
(03:59):
where I wanted to put my energyand decided to start my own kelp
farm in 2020 Yeah,
K Castrataro (04:05):
and I, I feel like those pandemic years were really
pivotal for a lot of us. I feellike you are, you are not the
first farmer that I've had onhere who kind of found a new
calling in that 2019, 2020,area, because things got really,
really ugly. And I find itinteresting that you kind of got
(04:27):
back into taking care of theocean through aquaculture at
that time, because one of thethings that really struck me
during the pandemic was all thereports coming out about how
much cleaner air was indifferent places, and how rivers
that had been like completelydisgusting were just naturally
(04:47):
restoring themselves simplybecause we weren't doing what we
always did. And, you know, Igrew up in a farm family that,
ironically, you can be a farmerand not be like. An
environmentalist like we rely onthe farm and the land and nature
so much, and yet there is kindof, sometimes, this disconnect
(05:09):
that, like being anenvironmentalist means that you
don't want to use the land. Youjust want to, you know, have it
as free, you know, forests orwhatever, which, which doesn't
have to be the case at all, and,and so I find it interesting to
have people who go back intosome kind of farming because of
(05:34):
their desire to take care ofnature. So so talk about, talk
about how you fell in love withkelp because you did all kinds
of, like, I've got all kinds ofdifferent fish here. I mean, you
were doing king crab and tuna.You, you worked for StarKist,
right? So, like, you, you weredoing some big tuna fishing.
That's not, like, that's not,that's not tuna fishing for the
(05:54):
neighborhood. That's prettyimpressive. So, so
Unknown (05:58):
how'd you get into kelp? Well, I think, you know,
coming back to your greatperspective on the pandemic, I
think we all sort of foundourselves as our authentic
selves, as sort of crisis bringsout authenticity, I think, too,
you know, and whether that's araw good or bad, and so I think
(06:20):
for me, the as a woman, alwaysbeen career centered and worked
my whole life. And you know,come from that type of family as
well. I felt as though we thatsort of calling as a mom. I have
two kiddos, a 15 year old, aneight year old, and you know,
watching them grow, and therewas that strengthened resolve as
(06:43):
that nurturer, and then knowing,oh, my role as a woman, nurture
is kind of shifting because mykids are growing up. So how else
can I nurture and so I feellike, for me in 2020, going into
kelp farming, it was a verynatural calling to at least try,
(07:03):
and knowing there was a lot ofunanswered market questions, and
a lot of other people in RhodeIsland have done kelp and have
done it really well, are stilldoing it really well. So it's by
no means a new or novel idea,but I think there was like a
lull where in 2020, you know,folks had tried it, grew it
well, and there was not a lot ofmarket opportunities. And that
(07:25):
was really appealing. Kelp isjust sort of the notorious
notoriety of kelp is that itprovides all these ecosystem
services. So it's a macro algae.It grows in the ocean. It's
making oxygen. So it's not aplant, it's an algae. But it
does a lot of the same features.It absorbs excess nitrogen,
phosphorus, all the junk thatruns off of our roads after a
(07:45):
rainstorm. It's absorbing thatand cleaning our water. It's
another
K Castrataro (07:50):
filter feeder. So it's actually a lot like, like
oysters, you know, can be afilter,
Unknown (07:57):
yeah, it's a natural you know, plants, as any
gardeners, obviously yourfarming community knows, you
know it needs. There's certainnitrogen and phosphorus that is
needed, and so the algae thrivesoff of that as a macro algae,
but it's also taking it up sothat there's not excess in the
water to make these algal bloomsand other harmful effects. So
it's really, really good for theenvironment. It's a local it's a
(08:20):
native species that's found inRhode Island. So it's not
something that's introduced. Sothere's just a lot of like,
pluses, a lot of wins. So thatfelt like a natural place to
pursue that nurturing instinct,like, maybe I can do this, get
back on the water, nurture in away, and also kind of solve
this, you know, Chip chip awayat solving this, you know,
(08:42):
challenge that's stymieing thegrowth of this really amazing
potential industry. So that's,yeah,
K Castrataro (08:50):
yeah, sorry, I tend to jump in. Sometimes that
idea comes in. I'm like, so, soyou were saying that the market
was kind of the issue thatthere, there had not been a
great market for it, which iswhy, you know, the kelp industry
had kind of petered off a littlebit. So how did you address
that? What did you do with that?I think I addressed some kelp.
(09:12):
You've got some kelp sittingaround there somewhere, haven't
you? We got things. We'retalking about marketing
Unknown (09:17):
greenhouse where we just dry it. It's just passive
drying. They do heat thegreenhouses. I don't really have
any control over that. I wouldturn off the heat if I could
certain times of the year, butit's just, I just hang it up. It
dries. It turns out to look likethis. It can be crunched up and
used for soil amendment foranimals. A lot of livestock
really love and thrive eatingkelp. It's good for them. So
(09:38):
that's what it looks like. Youknow, I totally forgot your
question, oh, the market. So Ichose to just acknowledge it and
then ignore it by realizing,okay, I can't solve that by I
can't even attempt to solve itunless I first learn what kelp
farming is all about and grow itmyself and walk that walk. So I
basically tackled it by saying,hey. We'll figure that out as we
(10:01):
go. Still haven't figured itout, but you know, we're getting
there and knowing also that oneof the appealing things with
aquaculture in general in RhodeIsland, which is, you know, 95
plus percent oysters. So inRhode Island, we have about
almost 90 farms owned by somefarms are owned by multiple
people. So let's say 45 farmers,very small to medium scale
(10:24):
businesses, very familyoriented.
K Castrataro (10:27):
And just to clarify, these are aquaculture
farms that you're talking about,yep, yep. And just for those who
do not know Rhode Islandagriculture to know that we
think more than just 45 farms,but we're talking 45 farmers
doing like ocean farming, right?
Unknown (10:44):
Yes. Thank you. Yes. So no problem, no problem. Very,
very focused on oysters, whichhas been really a healthy
industry, and kind of has itsblips and ups and downs, but
sort of trended, has alwaystrended to be very positive
living, you know, not easy byany stretch, or reliable, but
definitely, you know, somewhatstable. And so the kelp element
(11:08):
was just a really fascinatingaspect, knowing I could sort of
engage with that community, Ithink farming, the land based
farmers I've met a really,there's that perfect blend of
like, okay, I got my secretsauce and my thing going. I'm
not going to tell youeverything, but I'm here to help
you if you need it with that. Sothere they walk a very nice
(11:29):
collaborative line, withoutsacrificing their own enterprise
or their own, you know, IP orit's so I think that's a really
cool part of aquaculture inRhode Island. And so knowing
they could, I could sort of relyon that community to try to chip
away at it, especially theplaces where there would be
shared benefit for multiplebusinesses. Other folks really
(11:49):
wanted to solve this too, whoare permitted to grow kelp. So
that was my thought.
K Castrataro (11:55):
And there is a, there is a pretty stringent
permitting process for all ofthe ocean farming. Am I right
about that? Like, you've you'vegot to actually go through like
state processes to be you can'tjust mark out a part of the the
ocean and say, Oh, I'm going tobe farming this. And I did an
article 100 years ago when I waswriting more Well, I still am
(12:16):
for country folks on PerryRosso, who is like the
quintessential oyster farmer inRhode Island. And, yeah, I
remember just being reallyfascinated by what it means to
own an ocean farm, because it'skind of like a long term lease.
Is that right? Can you explainthat
Unknown (12:36):
a little bit? Sure. So we sublease submerged land from
the state of Rhode Island. Sothe ocean is owned by everyone,
right? There's no one owner, butyet, we all own it. So it's a
shared resource. It's called thecommons. It's in our state
constitution, access to theshore, you know, rights to
utilize this amazing resource,and it even extends out to our
(12:59):
federal laws. So there's noownership of one resource, which
becomes problematic when youtalk about fishing, because
people want to take from butthere needs to be management of
because not one person. So theit's a beautiful thing, and it
can be problematic to manage,but in Rhode Island, we have to
apply to lease that submergedland, so we don't own the water
(13:20):
column at all, and in fact, weonly lease the bottom per se. So
it's sort of a strange butreally nice process in the
anywhere from the Army Corps ofEngineers to the coast guard to
the towns to the residents,everyone has to is welcome to be
a part of that permittingprocess. And there's a lot of
application, public meetings,reviews, scrutiny that could
(13:44):
take upwards of two years, andat this point, the there's
probably not even a lot of spaceavailable that would pass
through that permitting processwithout real contention. So it
is a very challenging process.It's very involved. But I think
those are safeguards, because,again, it is a shared resource.
(14:07):
So not one person should come inand occupy hundreds of acres of
ocean for their own enterprise.They have to very much whatever
the lease from one acre to 100has to ensure that that public
trust, that Commons ismaintained. So anybody can
passage through my lease. Youcan drive a boat through it. You
(14:27):
can swim around in it. I do ownthe mind.
K Castrataro (14:31):
That was going to be my question. My question was
going to be, how do you managethat with the rest of the people
who use use the ocean? Because,as you said. I mean, we are the
ocean state. And so, you know,our ocean is very much a part of
our identity. And we are, welove to be on it. We are surfers
and boaters and fishers andpaddle boarders and swimmers and
(14:53):
all kinds of stuff. So, divers.So, so, yeah, how do you
navigate that? And and. Whatkind of impact does that have,
sometimes on your farm, or doesit
Unknown (15:04):
I think everything is very localized. So certain
places in Rhode Island areheavily used recreationally in
terms of the water space.Others, not so much. So every
farmer kind of manages thatdifferently. For my particular
place, in Portsmouth, I'm insecond Cove near Spectacle
Island in Portsmouth, RhodeIsland. It's about a two and a
(15:25):
half acre lease. There is thereare kayaking activities, there's
boating activities adjacent, butwe intersect really, really
well. Again, not every area islike that. I think there's about
five of us total farmers in thatarea. So I think the surrounding
(15:45):
coastal communities very awareof aquaculture that I since I've
been there, there haven't beenany conflicts or so. Yeah, it's
a very much an individual caseby case. So that's that process
is very, very involved. So Ithink that stymies the growth of
new farm starting.
(16:07):
But that
K Castrataro (16:09):
would also be access to, I mean, like, like
all small farmers or incomingfarmers, yep. Whether we're land
or sea farmers, we have limitedaccess to land, especially in
the Northeast, and because we'reso congested and built up and so
with the ocean, it seems likethat's even bigger, because you
(16:30):
have a really limited amount ofland that you can access before
you get into I'm imagining likeinternational waters, and I
would imagine You can't rentthere, and I'm figuring you've
got to stay kind of like, isthere a distance from the shore
that is ideal versus not ideal?Yeah. So it's a very, it sounds
(16:51):
like a very delicate balancethat you have
Unknown (16:55):
to Yes, yes. We have. There's some regulations around
where we can and where we cannotsuggest aquaculture activity we
are. And then there's also, youknow, protected species
controls. So being offshore withlines, that's something that's
very difficult to permit becauseof risk of entanglement. So
(17:16):
we're very much restricted,literally in the law and also
practically to be in the coastalzone. So that's within, you
know, less than a mile from fromshore. Obviously, half a mile. I
mean, the bay is we all ouraquaculture is in the bay,
Narragansett Bay, or our coastalsalt ponds, so Nina grit pond,
(17:37):
etc, Point Judith pond. So it's,there is a little bit of
aquaculture just outside in,like the harbor refuge and a few
other places. But really,there's nothing out past, out in
the open ocean in Rhode Island,and we're not there's no
suggestions to nor are weallowed to fish farm. So it's
(17:59):
only shellfish and and macroalgae like kelp. At this time,
it's only kelp we're notpermitted to to grow any other
algae trying to think andmussels, scallops, bay scallops,
oysters, so shellfish, and thensugar kelp,
K Castrataro (18:14):
okay, and so I don't know if you know anything
about seaweed. Like seaweedfarming, is kelp considered a
seaweed, or are they? Are theysimilar, different? I'm showing
my ignorance here, but I'mtotally okay doing that, because
how am I going to learn if Idon't ask questions? I love it.
Unknown (18:34):
I love it. I think that's great. Seaweed. When we
say seaweed, it's all thedifferent algae. So you have
three categories of algae in theocean, macro algae, so the big
stuff you can touch, not thephytoplankton. Three categories,
there's brown, green and red. Soall those are called seaweeds.
And there's 1000s of species. Imean, 1000s of species, even in
(18:57):
Rhode Island, hundreds ofspecies. The greens are like sea
lettuce. Sometimes you see itlooks like that, bright green.
The reds are sometimes you'llsee it washed up on the shore.
There's different it's calledgracilaria. It's kind of this,
like, beautiful. There's artiststhat make nice pressings out of
it. Yeah. Rust. Many morespecies, yeah. And then the
browns. There's also otherspecies, but kelp is considered
(19:20):
one of the browns and when wesay kelp, it's the it's talking
about the brown algae. So kelpis many species of brown algaes.
Sugar kelp is, this is the exactspecies, saccharina latissimus.
So it is very confusing. Well,
K Castrataro (19:36):
I heard, I heard you say sugar kelp then. And so
that was part of what promptedthat question, because I was
curious about how that
Unknown (19:44):
works. We mix them all, and it's so confusing. So
really, it's just a sugar kelp.
K Castrataro (19:49):
So all those other types of seaweed we're not
actually growing,
Unknown (19:53):
no, we definitely could, and there's much interest
in growing them, and there's amarket, the permitting process.
Is not set up to allow us to dothat.
K Castrataro (20:02):
I see, I see well, and that is, I have, you know, I
used to be an extension agent inRhode Island as well, so I've
kind of dabbled with a lot ofall of this, I know, just enough
to be dangerous in just aboutevery area of agriculture. And
so in Rhode Island, we have, onthe one hand, we have a very
(20:27):
supportive Division ofAgriculture Department. We have
a division under the under dem,the Department of Environmental
Management, and they've beenhugely supportive and have
worked really hard on a lot ofthese permitting processes.
Because, as you rightlymentioned, like there are, we
(20:48):
have lots of permittingprocesses for all different
types of agriculturalactivities, and they are
necessary because, you know, youget a couple bad actors in
there, and it, it can ruin itfor everybody. And so you
actually do need to almostprotect the good farmers,
sometimes from the ones thatwould push, push the boundaries,
(21:09):
and also to provide someprotection for all of the
farmers, because sometimes weend up with issues with
neighbors that are like, well, Iwant to be able to put my boat
through here faster than you sayI should be able to, because
it's going to affect your kelpand, excuse me, to have, like a
right to right to farm law thatsays, No, I can actually farm
(21:30):
this here. And you have to workwith people that's that's really
fascinating. So I would like togo a little bit to the markets
that you were talking about andjust figure out, where are you
selling your kelp, and how muchdo you process it? Like, what
kind of processing Do youyourself do?
Unknown (21:52):
Yeah, that's great. I and I just would reiterate how
wonderful our division of AG is.I mean, our chief is an amazing
human being and his team.They're just, they really are
supportive. There's, it's calledthe local agriculture seafood
act, LAHSA grant program thatthey've kept alive, come thick
and thin, and it's this veryapplied, like, funds for farmers
(22:16):
to, like, buy a tractor or makea greenhouse or so. It's so, so
wonderful. And I willacknowledge we are recipients.
My oyster farm is a recipient ofthe loss of grant this year. So
farm too, yep, they just walkthe walk or whatever that they
are amazing. So our markets arestrictly agricultural. So we
(22:37):
sell to animal, livestockcustomers. So chicken, sheep,
pigs. It's just incrediblebenefits for those critters,
those farmers. And then we alsosell for soil amendments, so
both forms. It's just the driedkelp that you saw here. You
don't do any other processing.There's some customers that were
(22:59):
like the kelp blanch, so it'sjust dipped in hot water, and it
cuts the salt and the iodine abit. So for certain creatures,
that's better. So that's reallyour simple market. I mean, I'll
show you my this is the storageof the just yard bags of, like,
fried you know what I mean,kelp. Yeah. And I have an honor
system at my greenhouse, I havea bin out front, and it's, it's
(23:23):
Muslim bags of kelp, and folkscan just come and grab it if
they want more. They message me.I say, Come inside, grab a bag.
So it's very down home, local,and that's how I want it to be.
I don't want to go past NewEngland. I mean, I shouldn't say
that. I don't have the capacityto set up an infrastructure to
go past New England in terms ofthat. I love, love it. So that's
(23:47):
our markets. We do have a sugarkelp pearls, which is a chef
made batch, made product everyseason. She makes us a limited
number of these pearls. It's avegan caviar. So it looks just
like caviar, the little roundballs caviar is fish eggs, which
is a very extractive product.Fish are harvested or killed
(24:11):
just for those eggs. And that'sa huge and it's very expensive.
Those folks who are vegan orvegetarian and don't want to
contend with those issues, canpurchase this product. So this
is something where you can puton your oysters, you can put on
your salads. You put them in amartini. They're amazing. And
(24:32):
it's just a vinegar based smallball of goat in this sort of
beautiful, sort of gelatinlooking ball. So we have that
product, also very local. It'sat fresh harvest kitchen in
Westerly. Folks want to buy someand then we are right now
working on two early stagepatents for two products that
(24:56):
will involve kelp, so hopefullynext
K Castrataro (24:58):
year. Can't ask you any questions. Questions
about that, because we don'twant to mess with your
patenting.
Unknown (25:03):
I mean stuff, but my team is amazing innovators, so
that's kind of cool, and we'rehoping to get that would
service. One would be for theagricultural market and one
would be for other markets thatexist worldwide, so hopefully.
But again, it's really just likea slow slog. Both of those
(25:25):
products too. I just theDepartment of Health in Rhode
Island is a really greatorganization, but I don't think
they still know what to do withkelp, so it's very difficult.
There's no official process fordrying kelp for food, right? It
so that that that I've chosen tonot beat my head against the
wall and pursue so I'm goingother directions with
K Castrataro (25:47):
products, and that is another thing that takes
years, because I know justgetting, getting on farm,
processing of meat was a really,really tough thing to do so that
you could sell that resell thatmeat like to just process it for
yourself. Was never a problem.But, like, I remember when the
(26:07):
first farmer was going throughthat, and it took him, I think
it might have been five yearsthat he worked on, like,
educating and coming up withsolutions, like just so much
determination and creativitywith support from the department
of the division of Ag, because,you know, the Department of
(26:31):
Health, they just come from acompletely different
perspective. And it's not a badperspective, it's just a
completely different framework.Like most of them have never
been on a farm, so they don'tunderstand, you know, you say,
Oh, we're going to be sellingmeat from the farm. And they're
picturing, like, manureeverywhere, and, you know, hay
in the in the me. And they'relike, No, we can't do that. And
(26:54):
so, you know, all of theseprocesses, it's not just a
matter of, let's come up with agood process. It's also we have
to do a lot of educating. And soI mean this kind of moves into
where I always like to turnthese conversations at some
point to talk about things like,what, what do you do to keep
(27:15):
yourself centered and growingand healthy yourself while
you're going through this,because all of these processes
can take a real toll on us, bothemotionally and relationally. I
think, you know, some farmersend up very, very angry with the
government agencies and so thatwhole like communication. How do
(27:39):
we communicate about ourlivelihood, and which is also
our passion, but it's it's ourlivelihood. And how do we
communicate about thatrespectfully with people who
just don't understand and andnot don't understand because
they're stupid, but just don'tunderstand because they're not
exposed to this stuff. So whatcan you talk to some of that for
(28:00):
us. Have you had any of thosekinds of experiences, and how do
you keep yourself healthy doingall this?
Unknown (28:08):
Yeah, I have not figured that out yet, but some
strategies I'm working on aredefinitely that community I
mentioned, you know, hunkeringdown a little bit. And I think
that's a strategy separate justfrom my farm, just sort of a
survival tactic in today'suncertain and changing world.
And I think there's a bit of abrokenness to humanity in some
(28:32):
ways, but in noticing that I'msort of going back to growing
up. You know, I remember themotto growing up. It was think
globally, act locally. Remember,that was when recycling, I
remember that, yes, 80s motto.It was that and like mad. You
know, Mothers Against Drunk.There's sort of things that I'm
(28:53):
sort of like, Wait, what are?Just say no. So I think the
Think globally act locally iswhat I'm applying in my farm
world, where I'm hunkering downand I'm making the spheres of
influence and onion very small.So I start with my family, and
then it's my friends and mycommunity, and that's it. So
(29:14):
anything else there might beshreds of time and energy for
then that that that's a fourthpriority. So just trying to,
like, honor that, and that keepsme okay. Is this action, is this
path that I'm going to choosefor product? Is that going to
disintegrate any element of thatfirst core of family? Okay? No,
(29:35):
okay. How about friends? Like,is it going to require some, you
know, because we I'm an onlychild, so friends have just
always been a huge part of mylife. And we are really so
blessed. Our friends are justamazing people. We've had for 20
years, and we're all raising ourkids, so that's they're your
family. Yeah, we lean on eachother. You know, you're away.
(29:57):
It's a hurricane. Can you justgo? Make sure the house isn't
flooding. That's a second away.And so then, and then community
is this larger group of peoplethat are like ourselves, right?
And people that you check in on,you kind of look after. And we
have some tactics at home we tryto do to keep those things
alive. I think that helps me alot. Yeah, and then, and then
(30:20):
this, yeah, self care. I mean,you kidding me? 25 pounds over,
there's just a constant. And Iyou just have to be like, you
know, I don't know the wrinklesare going to be the wrinkles.
I'm not dying my hair anymore.These are my own. I'm not going
to fuss about being a 50 yearold woman and trying to look
(30:42):
anything other than my 50 yearold self in this moment, and
just trying to embrace that, youknow? And it's, it's tricky,
right? You're
K Castrataro (30:49):
like, and you're stunningly beautiful. Like, you
need to know that. I mean,you've got, you've got the
southern cow look going. So likeyou are, you are, so don't whose
podcast is this?
Unknown (31:01):
Try the spotlight back to you, right back at you, you
know. And those are good things,because it's practicing honoring
a whole nother phase of likemenopause and, you know, coming
into this new era as a woman,and not it being not the end of
something, but rather thebeginning of something, right?
Like, You've nurtured thisfamily, you've grown these
(31:24):
things, so trying to really, butit's, it's tricky, and you got
to keep the right people aroundyou, and it's work, and keep the
energy vampires away. Like,there's a lot of those. And I
just try to try and try, andsome days are better than
others, right? Some days you'relike, Yeah, I'm gonna curl up
and suck my thumb all night andwatch some crappy sitcom, I
(31:48):
don't even know, and just beokay with that, and nothing's
gonna get done. And another day,
K Castrataro (31:53):
Chinese dramas, those are my my guilty pleasure,
are silly Chinese dramas, justbecause it gets me completely
out of my life, and I'm like, Igotta use subtitles, and then I
get tired faster because I'mreading.
Unknown (32:07):
It's like, they're abstract, silent, whatever those
kinds, whatever you need, right?
Sometimes days you're hitting itout of the park, right? Because
we're women, and we can take ona million things, and we can hit
all of them out of the park. Soit's sort of like just honoring
that that tips. It tips. Andthere's not a steady state
happiness or steady statesadness or and that's the world
(32:29):
too, right? Like, I think thefarm has really the kelp farm in
particular, because it's awinter so kelp is winter only.
So we it's like flipped from theland farmer. So when the land
farmers are like, harvesting andgetting ready for the winter.
We're like, getting our seed andwe're planting for the winter,
so it grows all winter, and thenwe harvest in the spring. So
(32:49):
it's like, this cool flip, and Ithink I'm out there every week,
all winter, January, February.Like, doesn't matter, out on
K Castrataro (32:56):
the water, cold. Very cold. Out on the water.
Unknown (33:01):
I love the cold, and I it's a very it's like, a secret.
It's like, I'm out there. I'mlike, I'm privy to a secret.
Like, thanks. I won't tellocean. Like, it's just this
quiet time. And I think that hasshowed me, like, yeah, things
are, you know, slow and steady,and sometimes then they're
frantic, and then they're so theseasonality of kelp farming has
been really helpful for me torecognize. And again, sometimes
(33:26):
we do it better than others.Some days are better than
others. Well,
K Castrataro (33:29):
I love that because, you know, I've been
thinking about that whole ideaof equilibrium, because I think,
I think we have this idea thatif we're going to be healthy,
we're going to get balanced, andwe're going to keep our life in
balance, which aren't we alltrying to find balance, whatever
that looks like. And what Irealized just recently is that
(33:51):
that balance never stays thesame, because if you're growing,
if you are a person who isgrowing and learning and
changing, you are constantlygoing to be expanding into
something new, into somethingdifferent, even if it's just a
different version of your ownawareness. But that shifts
things. And so then that balancehas to get re established. And
(34:16):
for a while I was feeling reallyfrustrated with myself because I
would have like balance, like,I'd have about a month where I
was like, Wow, this system isreally working for me. It's
perfect. Like, I'm gettingeverything done, like, this is
great. And then all of a suddenit would fall apart. And I I
noticed that it usually wouldfall apart just about the time
(34:38):
that I expanded into somethingnew, where all of a sudden I was
stretching out of my comfortzone. And so then all of those
systems that were working werestill supportive, but, but the
balance was a little upset. Andso then it's like you got to
reconfigure it get to that, thatsense of stasis from. In it, and
(35:00):
then that gives you, that givesyou a platform to move to
something that you knowdifferent. And so I think that
idea of the seasonality and justreally accepting that, I think
that's such a beautiful image,like I really, I really am
resonating with that right now.
Unknown (35:17):
So thank you for sharing. It's like a visceral
reminder that it's that up anddown, and that balance has to be
it's like a very visceralbecause you're like, oh,
literally, the everything haschanged, like the trees are
sleeping. And it's a really nicefor me. I love the winter
because it is my It's a giftfrom the natural world to remind
us that we're not functioningoutside of that, that cycle. You
(35:41):
know, we have our own so andthat, and girlfriend check in
time. Like, I have amazinggirlfriends who are just love
you for who you are. We have, wecall it Vegas time on the boat.
Like, what happens and says onthe boat, stays on the boat,
because, and that's someFridays, Friday Farm Days. And
it's just, we just let it allhang out as like, this is my
(36:05):
bow, my rules, and anythinggoes, but just, don't, you know,
so we it's just kind of a fun
K Castrataro (36:10):
we'll do, we'll do anything we want, and nobody
ever has to know.
Unknown (36:15):
Yeah, you just, you know, there's a lot of bombs
flying, but it's just a way tokind of so I think that that
community, having your, youknow, the peeps, because that's
not your family, like yourfamily, you kind of have a role
that you pull you show up as arole. You show up as mom, you
show up as wife, you're not yourfull self. So I think those
communities, yeah, for me,that's really helpful. Like
(36:38):
going out for a walk, anything,any way you want to be with
them, even if it's for steal anhour, is so amazing. Like, I
need that.
K Castrataro (36:46):
So, yeah, oh, I love, I love what you were
saying there about the rolesthat we play in the family.
Because I usually think that,like a lot, a lot of people that
I know do have roles still intheir friendships, like there
are certain people that maybethey're the nurturer of the
friendship, or, you know,they're not necessarily free to
(37:07):
be all of themselves. And, youknow, I'm like that with my
sister, and you know, I've gotsome college friends that are
just that way. You know, we gettogether, and it's just, it all
hangs out, and there's there.There are no secrets. It's just,
yep, this is, this is what'sgoing on. And I love that you
have that because, because Ithink we need that. I think all
of us have this inner need to beseen and to be heard and to be
(37:30):
valued for who we are in all ofourselves, like, not just in the
I'm holding it together. I'm,you know, I'm looking good. I've
got my my stuff together, butwhen the stuff isn't together,
when we're falling apart, whenwe're having a meltdown, when
we're you mentioned menopause,and I just did a post not too
(37:54):
long ago about, does your farmneed a perimenopause protection
plan? And I was like, Yeah, Itotally do. Because, you know,
perimenopause sucks. Can I justsay because all of a sudden,
it's like you're a teenageragain, with your body going
nuts, only you've got the wisdomof four or five decades saying,
(38:17):
wait a minute, I did not do thisbefore, like, this is not the
way my body worked, and what I'mdoing feels insane.
Unknown (38:27):
Yes, totally.
K Castrataro (38:30):
And so that's one of those phases of life, I
think, where you know when we'reon, I feel like this time of
life for us, we do have so muchwisdom, so much energy, in a lot
of ways, because we're stillrelatively young and and yet we
have, we've learned how to takecare of ourselves a little bit
(38:50):
more, usually, after having goneout, gone through burnout, and
learned how not to take care ofourselves. But we've got all
this stuff that we still want todo, and then we have, like,
these, these few days where allof a sudden, like, we get taken
over by this demon, and it'slike, Whoa, what the heck just
happened? At least this is myexperience with it. Like my poor
(39:11):
kids were looking at me one day,and they're like, What the heck
happened to mom? And they'relike, Mom, we thought you were
gonna kill us. And I was like, Ithought I might kill somebody,
and we weren't really, it wasn'tbad. It was just some yelling,
but the fact that I was, like,yelling and screaming and
swearing, they're like, Wait,whoa. What did you do with my
(39:33):
mother? And you have almost thisout of body experience where you
can, like, see yourself doingthis stuff, and you're like,
Wow, that's a little crazy.
Unknown (39:42):
You can do to stop it?
No, well, it's, it's almost Iwas thinking about when we
chatted before these windows oftime. And I feel like my window
of time is now, between now and55 and it's very like not
everybody has probably specifictime. I'm lying on that window,
right? But you can kind ofintuitively feel it. And I feel
(40:05):
like this is the only time Icould have ever become a farmer.
This is the only time I couldever have built this community
of been a part of and sort ofcontributed to this community of
farmers, ocean farmers andwomen. It's like, literally,
right now. And I think thatthat's partly because of that
(40:27):
wisdom, like you're saying of alifetime, right? And we all
bring our specific wisdoms fromour lived experiences. And I
think I'm like, super excitedabout that, and I feel like I
get really, like, angry andgrumpy, when the sort of
societal portrait of that islike, oh, you know the decline.
(40:48):
You're in your decline. And I myhusband does this too. I don't
even think he realizes it, but Ithink men have a different
midlife experience where he'sseeing like, Oh, my God. You
know, my physicality is mydefining feature, and that's
changing, and I have bustedknees and hurting back, and so
he's like, has a negative skewon this phase of life where I'm
(41:09):
like, Oh no. And I get veryangry. I'm like, do not take
this and make negative. Don'tnegative eyes my happy time in
life, you know. So I get verylike, protective of this window
of like, this is my five years,five years left to do all this.
And I it's like, a clear It's asclear as if someone, like, put
the little chip in my brain islike, here's your map. Do it
(41:30):
now. This is your window. Andit's not because something's
bad. It's gonna happen after.It's just that this is the
effective time. Like, this iskind of when you're this is when
the plant is producing the mostpowerful medicinal quality,
K Castrataro (41:43):
because you're, I love that you were using into
intuitive. You know, you saidit's intuitive, yep, yep, when
we start to really connect withourselves and what what our
purpose is. And I've said thisbefore on this show, but I
firmly believe that every singleone of us is here for a purpose,
and when we connect with thatpurpose, that does give us
(42:07):
energy and enthusiasm and joyand passion and and that, like
totally I'm gonna do thisbecause I was meant to do it,
and it doesn't matter if anybodyunderstands. It doesn't matter
if it makes sense, because thereis a sense within really, like
totally. I mean, how manypeople, if you look at the
(42:29):
really influential, I love how Italk, if you look at the really
influential people in thehistory of the world, how many
of them were doing the sensiblethings when they were doing what
they were doing that changed theworld. People looked at them and
thought they were crazy. Youknow, what are you talking
about? That the Earth goesaround the sun. Yeah, lunatic.
(42:53):
That's not the way it works.Like doing things that just
seemed not sensible. And now welook at them, and they're, you
know, the heroes of history. Andso I think each one of us has
that hero in us, and and, yeah,when that, when that calling
comes, like, go with it. Go.Well,
Unknown (43:14):
it's funny when it services society and family and
relationships, like, oh,mother's instinct. You know, all
lean on that mother. You're theone that connects and bonds with
the baby like that's valued, butthen when that instinct has
been, you know, gratefully lentto that experience. But now we
want to use that instinct toenhance ourselves or a calling
(43:36):
or a purpose, then, then we'recrazy. So it's like, oh, when it
services, when it services, thatinstinct is super valuable, and
you, in fact, lean on it toraise the children of the world.
But then when we want to usethat exact same instinct to
further ourself and our calling,we're, you know, emotional or
(43:57):
irrational or selfish or Yeah,so that's a very and I have
learned to shielding tech. Ihave this thing, and I get all
crazy on I love planes, I lovetraveling, but I do this thing
where I visualize a shieldaround my family. It's so
ridiculous. And I actuallypicture like a pangolin. You're
seeing this cool critter, thispangolin. I love them with the
scales, yeah. So I literallypicture pangolin shields around
(44:21):
my kids, and then it's radiatinglight, and I protect them. So
I've learned I don't even fromwhat I don't know, but I just do
it and and then I've been doingthat with that instinct, like,
No, this is a pangolin, this isa shield, and you're going to
try to hack at it. And it's notlike intentional, it's just the
flow of the the American societyin particular, we don't those
(44:41):
things aren't valued, so they'rethey're ticked, they're
ridiculed or attacked, evenunintentionally. So I
K Castrataro (44:47):
put this shield around it, around us when we
shift, when we shift somethingabout ourselves, it makes
everybody uncomfortable, becauseit changes everybody's
interactions. It's like we weretalking about growing and having
to. Establish our own sense ofequilibrium and how that is a
never ending process. And so thepeople around us, as we grow and
(45:08):
change, they have to change withus, and they either like it or
don't like it. You know, it'seither easy or difficult, but
they're going to want to bringus back into what's familiar,
even if what we're movingtowards is better, you know,
because familiar is safe andkind of different is scary. And
(45:28):
I just want to say yourshielding technique, well, I
just want to tell you yourshielding technique is not at
all crazy. And when you weresaying I got chills, because
every day before my children goto school, and actually, I do it
with the neighbors as well. Nowmy kids are middle schoolers, so
my son is 13, my daughter's 11,and the boys next door are the
(45:50):
same age. So I'm standing outthere at the bus stop with these
four teenagers, and I make themall put their shield of faith,
and we physically do it. We puttheir shield of faith. And then
I go and I give them each a hug,and I fill it with love. And so
it's that same thing where we'reputting a shield of protection
around them for the day, andwe're filling it with all of our
(46:11):
love so that they know thatwhatever is coming at them, the
crap, is not going to have roomto come in, but all the good
stuff is going to be able toseep right into that love, and
it's just going to be a part ofthem. And so, no, I totally love
that you do that and and it'strue like, I mean, the fact that
(46:31):
I've got four teenagers who dothat and do not balk at I mean,
two of them aren't even mine,makes sense that my kids would
do the crazy things that themother says the two Kids Next
Door do it too. Like, who's everheard of such a thing? So, you
know, there is that you do.There is energy in the world
(46:52):
and, and I'm looking at thetime, and I'm saying, Ah, and
Unknown (46:55):
we haven't even, we're just totally went on a on a
sideline, and I love it so well,
K Castrataro (47:00):
this is no, this is so this is what we do. Here
is we always start, we alwaysstart farm focused, awesome, and
we stay farm focused. It dependson, honestly, it probably mostly
depends on how familiar I amwith your type of farming. If I
know you're farming really well,then we quickly move into other
areas. But if I'm learningstuff, I'm like, oh, I want to
(47:24):
learn that. Oh, I want to learnthat. And then then we come to
Unknown (47:28):
this type time of the
K Castrataro (47:30):
the episode where I ask my signature question. And
this is the question I askeverybody. If you had one piece
of advice that you wanted everyfarmer to know, what would that
be?
Unknown (47:45):
Oh, boy, that's an easy one.
K Castrataro (47:52):
I'm good at the easy questions. I would say to
well, you
Unknown (47:59):
know, honor thyself. Or, you know, there's that sort
of a but it's somethingdifferent from that. It starts
with that, and then it kind ofgoes to, you are, I think
farmers, whatever kind offarming, ocean farming, land
farming, starting out farming,big farming. There is a
connection to the earth. Andyou're right. There's some
(48:21):
practices that are moresustainable than others, but I
think there is some sort of pullto our world, right, our
physical world, like our Earth.And I think that that sometimes
My piece of advice would be tojust kind of try to check in
with that, like no matter whereyou're at in that journey.
(48:43):
Because I think there is someintuitive advice through that.
You know the there, there issomething that will become
apparent in that decision point,that decision tree, that if you
go back to the roots right, theroots will inform that tree. So
I think sometimes i Theeagerness to pursue kelp as this
(49:04):
really wonderful marketpotential for all these
different products, right? Sokelp is used in bio bio fuel,
it's used in fertilizers, it'sused in products, it's used in
all these things. So there's bioplastics even there's a whole
bio plastics industry that usesreally remarkable market
(49:24):
opportunities, but I think asindividual enterprises, we need
to check back in with thatconnection, because scale isn't
always the answer. Maybe scaleis the answer. Keeping local
might not be the answer, butmaybe it is the answer. And I
think sometimes all the adviceand the input around the
(49:45):
industry is to just check intothat the roots of being a
farmer, which it truly is, youknow, connected to the earth in
some way. And I think that isnot always easy to do. And like,
like you just did when westarted, you took a breath. Like
how a simple gesture of pause,and I think for farmers that
that's the breath it's
K Castrataro (50:07):
to just check back into to to what the Earth has to
say to you, you know. And youcall it woo, woo con, call it
whatever, some but I knowfarmers do it, and I don't care
who you are, but they do someform of that. And I think just
to remember that in any phase ofyour journey as a farmer. Oh,
Azure, so much. There I I amitching to to throw my five
(50:33):
cents in, but I'm not going to,because what you said was
beautiful, and I want to leaveit with your voice. I want to
thank you so much for joiningus. And as your new products
come out, we'll have to get youon again and talk about how your
patents went. And for all of youout there, thank you so much for
joining us on Food, Flowers andFun, and we will see you next
(50:55):
time. Thank you.
Unknown (51:00):
Farm. What's calling our show is all done, goodbye,
farewell, so long, Adieu, seeyou next week, same time, same
place for Food, Flowers and Fun,go in peace.
Visit us atwww.penlightfarmers.com
you.
How do you keep your farm life grounded in times
(00:03):
of crisis? Listen in asaquaculture farmer Azure Cygler
talks about Farm Fridays on thewater, checking in with the
earth, and following yourheart...all on this episode of
Food, Flowers and Fun. You
Unknown (00:26):
if you're the woman who does it all, farm work,
housework, book work, homework,getting up at the break of dawn.
This is the podcast for you. Howdo you get away from the cares
of the day. Restock rootstock,feedstock, seed stock. Chat with
(00:47):
women around the world to raisefood, flowers and fun
with your host, kay Castrataro,that's me.
K Castrataro (00:57):
Well, hello everybody, and welcome to Food,
Flowers and Fun (01:00):
Visits with farm women from around the
world. As always, we aresponsored by Pen Light for
Farmers, who is helping farmersto make more satisfying,
efficient and peaceful farmlives. Yes, you too can have
that. And our guest today isamazing. Her name is Azure
(01:21):
Cygler, and she is here in RhodeIsland. She is actually
positioned at this presentmoment in the greenhouses at the
University of Rhode Island. AndI used to work there 100 years
ago. So looking at this isreally, really, very, very
beautiful for me.
So Azure, welcome. Oh, and sheis the owner of Rhody Kelp,
(01:43):
correct? That is your businessname, and she's going to tell us
all about what it is to farmkelp, which I just think is
fascinating, because I love thewhole idea of seaweedy type
stuff. So as you're welcome,thank you for having me. I'm
grateful to be here.
Unknown (02:03):
So, you know, we usually just get in and I, I
start with having you tell usabout yourself, where you're
from, how you got into kelp,like, What a great story you
have. So share that with us.Thank you. Yes, my company is
Rhody Wild Sea Gardens. RhodyKelp is always the most logical
way of remembering it, which isthrough my Instagram. But I
(02:26):
started really grew up in theocean arena. I grew up in
Southern California. Alwaysloved the sea.
Took scuba diving with my dad.Grew you know, grew up surfing
down in La Jolla. So alwaysloved the ocean. And really, you
know, saw the ocean as needingthe most help in terms of
(02:48):
fisheries. So got took mycollege path through the
University of Santa Cruz, doing,you know, marine biology, but
then really focused onfisheries. You know, there was,
we have a tendency to overextract us crazy humans. So
there were some thoughts andissues around fisheries. So I
got into the world of oceancareer work and studied
(03:14):
fisheries and became afisherman. So I fished in Alaska
and American Samoa, andeventually led me to Cape Cod,
where I work with somegrassroots fishing
organizations. So fishing wassort of my, my deep dive, no pun
intended, into the ocean worldand ocean work. And then did a
lot of science and outreach andwork for the Science Center,
Woods Hole, for NOAA Fisheries.And, you know, sort of dappled
(03:37):
but all of that, I feel hasculminated into lived
experiences, which have broughtme into aquaculture. And I
started my own farm in 2020 Icall it a career chiropractic,
where I sort of adjusted where Ifelt I could be most of use into
in terms of where the oceancould use a little love, and
(03:59):
where I wanted to put my energyand decided to start my own kelp
farm in 2020 Yeah,
K Castrataro (04:05):
and I, I feel like those pandemic years were really
pivotal for a lot of us. I feellike you are, you are not the
first farmer that I've had onhere who kind of found a new
calling in that 2019, 2020,area, because things got really,
really ugly. And I find itinteresting that you kind of got
(04:27):
back into taking care of theocean through aquaculture at
that time, because one of thethings that really struck me
during the pandemic was all thereports coming out about how
much cleaner air was indifferent places, and how rivers
that had been like completelydisgusting were just naturally
(04:47):
restoring themselves simplybecause we weren't doing what we
always did. And, you know, Igrew up in a farm family that,
ironically, you can be a farmerand not be like. An
environmentalist like we rely onthe farm and the land and nature
so much, and yet there is kindof, sometimes, this disconnect
(05:09):
that, like being anenvironmentalist means that you
don't want to use the land. Youjust want to, you know, have it
as free, you know, forests orwhatever, which, which doesn't
have to be the case at all, and,and so I find it interesting to
have people who go back intosome kind of farming because of
(05:34):
their desire to take care ofnature. So so talk about, talk
about how you fell in love withkelp because you did all kinds
of, like, I've got all kinds ofdifferent fish here. I mean, you
were doing king crab and tuna.You, you worked for StarKist,
right? So, like, you, you weredoing some big tuna fishing.
That's not, like, that's not,that's not tuna fishing for the
(05:54):
neighborhood. That's prettyimpressive. So, so
Unknown (05:58):
how'd you get into kelp? Well, I think, you know,
coming back to your greatperspective on the pandemic, I
think we all sort of foundourselves as our authentic
selves, as sort of crisis bringsout authenticity, I think, too,
you know, and whether that's araw good or bad, and so I think
(06:20):
for me, the as a woman, alwaysbeen career centered and worked
my whole life. And you know,come from that type of family as
well. I felt as though we thatsort of calling as a mom. I have
two kiddos, a 15 year old, aneight year old, and you know,
watching them grow, and therewas that strengthened resolve as
(06:43):
that nurturer, and then knowing,oh, my role as a woman, nurture
is kind of shifting because mykids are growing up. So how else
can I nurture and so I feellike, for me in 2020, going into
kelp farming, it was a verynatural calling to at least try,
(07:03):
and knowing there was a lot ofunanswered market questions, and
a lot of other people in RhodeIsland have done kelp and have
done it really well, are stilldoing it really well. So it's by
no means a new or novel idea,but I think there was like a
lull where in 2020, you know,folks had tried it, grew it
well, and there was not a lot ofmarket opportunities. And that
(07:25):
was really appealing. Kelp isjust sort of the notorious
notoriety of kelp is that itprovides all these ecosystem
services. So it's a macro algae.It grows in the ocean. It's
making oxygen. So it's not aplant, it's an algae. But it
does a lot of the same features.It absorbs excess nitrogen,
phosphorus, all the junk thatruns off of our roads after a
(07:45):
rainstorm. It's absorbing thatand cleaning our water. It's
another
K Castrataro (07:50):
filter feeder. So it's actually a lot like, like
oysters, you know, can be afilter,
Unknown (07:57):
yeah, it's a natural you know, plants, as any
gardeners, obviously yourfarming community knows, you
know it needs. There's certainnitrogen and phosphorus that is
needed, and so the algae thrivesoff of that as a macro algae,
but it's also taking it up sothat there's not excess in the
water to make these algal bloomsand other harmful effects. So
it's really, really good for theenvironment. It's a local it's a
(08:20):
native species that's found inRhode Island. So it's not
something that's introduced. Sothere's just a lot of like,
pluses, a lot of wins. So thatfelt like a natural place to
pursue that nurturing instinct,like, maybe I can do this, get
back on the water, nurture in away, and also kind of solve
this, you know, Chip chip awayat solving this, you know,
(08:42):
challenge that's stymieing thegrowth of this really amazing
potential industry. So that's,yeah,
K Castrataro (08:50):
yeah, sorry, I tend to jump in. Sometimes that
idea comes in. I'm like, so, soyou were saying that the market
was kind of the issue thatthere, there had not been a
great market for it, which iswhy, you know, the kelp industry
had kind of petered off a littlebit. So how did you address
that? What did you do with that?I think I addressed some kelp.
(09:12):
You've got some kelp sittingaround there somewhere, haven't
you? We got things. We'retalking about marketing
Unknown (09:17):
greenhouse where we just dry it. It's just passive
drying. They do heat thegreenhouses. I don't really have
any control over that. I wouldturn off the heat if I could
certain times of the year, butit's just, I just hang it up. It
dries. It turns out to look likethis. It can be crunched up and
used for soil amendment foranimals. A lot of livestock
really love and thrive eatingkelp. It's good for them. So
(09:38):
that's what it looks like. Youknow, I totally forgot your
question, oh, the market. So Ichose to just acknowledge it and
then ignore it by realizing,okay, I can't solve that by I
can't even attempt to solve itunless I first learn what kelp
farming is all about and grow itmyself and walk that walk. So I
basically tackled it by saying,hey. We'll figure that out as we
(10:01):
go. Still haven't figured itout, but you know, we're getting
there and knowing also that oneof the appealing things with
aquaculture in general in RhodeIsland, which is, you know, 95
plus percent oysters. So inRhode Island, we have about
almost 90 farms owned by somefarms are owned by multiple
people. So let's say 45 farmers,very small to medium scale
(10:24):
businesses, very familyoriented.
K Castrataro (10:27):
And just to clarify, these are aquaculture
farms that you're talking about,yep, yep. And just for those who
do not know Rhode Islandagriculture to know that we
think more than just 45 farms,but we're talking 45 farmers
doing like ocean farming, right?
Unknown (10:44):
Yes. Thank you. Yes. So no problem, no problem. Very,
very focused on oysters, whichhas been really a healthy
industry, and kind of has itsblips and ups and downs, but
sort of trended, has alwaystrended to be very positive
living, you know, not easy byany stretch, or reliable, but
definitely, you know, somewhatstable. And so the kelp element
(11:08):
was just a really fascinatingaspect, knowing I could sort of
engage with that community, Ithink farming, the land based
farmers I've met a really,there's that perfect blend of
like, okay, I got my secretsauce and my thing going. I'm
not going to tell youeverything, but I'm here to help
you if you need it with that. Sothere they walk a very nice
(11:29):
collaborative line, withoutsacrificing their own enterprise
or their own, you know, IP orit's so I think that's a really
cool part of aquaculture inRhode Island. And so knowing
they could, I could sort of relyon that community to try to chip
away at it, especially theplaces where there would be
shared benefit for multiplebusinesses. Other folks really
(11:49):
wanted to solve this too, whoare permitted to grow kelp. So
that was my thought.
K Castrataro (11:55):
And there is a, there is a pretty stringent
permitting process for all ofthe ocean farming. Am I right
about that? Like, you've you'vegot to actually go through like
state processes to be you can'tjust mark out a part of the the
ocean and say, Oh, I'm going tobe farming this. And I did an
article 100 years ago when I waswriting more Well, I still am
(12:16):
for country folks on PerryRosso, who is like the
quintessential oyster farmer inRhode Island. And, yeah, I
remember just being reallyfascinated by what it means to
own an ocean farm, because it'skind of like a long term lease.
Is that right? Can you explainthat
Unknown (12:36):
a little bit? Sure. So we sublease submerged land from
the state of Rhode Island. Sothe ocean is owned by everyone,
right? There's no one owner, butyet, we all own it. So it's a
shared resource. It's called thecommons. It's in our state
constitution, access to theshore, you know, rights to
utilize this amazing resource,and it even extends out to our
(12:59):
federal laws. So there's noownership of one resource, which
becomes problematic when youtalk about fishing, because
people want to take from butthere needs to be management of
because not one person. So theit's a beautiful thing, and it
can be problematic to manage,but in Rhode Island, we have to
apply to lease that submergedland, so we don't own the water
(13:20):
column at all, and in fact, weonly lease the bottom per se. So
it's sort of a strange butreally nice process in the
anywhere from the Army Corps ofEngineers to the coast guard to
the towns to the residents,everyone has to is welcome to be
a part of that permittingprocess. And there's a lot of
application, public meetings,reviews, scrutiny that could
(13:44):
take upwards of two years, andat this point, the there's
probably not even a lot of spaceavailable that would pass
through that permitting processwithout real contention. So it
is a very challenging process.It's very involved. But I think
those are safeguards, because,again, it is a shared resource.
(14:07):
So not one person should come inand occupy hundreds of acres of
ocean for their own enterprise.They have to very much whatever
the lease from one acre to 100has to ensure that that public
trust, that Commons ismaintained. So anybody can
passage through my lease. Youcan drive a boat through it. You
(14:27):
can swim around in it. I do ownthe mind.
K Castrataro (14:31):
That was going to be my question. My question was
going to be, how do you managethat with the rest of the people
who use use the ocean? Because,as you said. I mean, we are the
ocean state. And so, you know,our ocean is very much a part of
our identity. And we are, welove to be on it. We are surfers
and boaters and fishers andpaddle boarders and swimmers and
(14:53):
all kinds of stuff. So, divers.So, so, yeah, how do you
navigate that? And and. Whatkind of impact does that have,
sometimes on your farm, or doesit
Unknown (15:04):
I think everything is very localized. So certain
places in Rhode Island areheavily used recreationally in
terms of the water space.Others, not so much. So every
farmer kind of manages thatdifferently. For my particular
place, in Portsmouth, I'm insecond Cove near Spectacle
Island in Portsmouth, RhodeIsland. It's about a two and a
(15:25):
half acre lease. There is thereare kayaking activities, there's
boating activities adjacent, butwe intersect really, really
well. Again, not every area islike that. I think there's about
five of us total farmers in thatarea. So I think the surrounding
(15:45):
coastal communities very awareof aquaculture that I since I've
been there, there haven't beenany conflicts or so. Yeah, it's
a very much an individual caseby case. So that's that process
is very, very involved. So Ithink that stymies the growth of
new farm starting.
(16:07):
But that
K Castrataro (16:09):
would also be access to, I mean, like, like
all small farmers or incomingfarmers, yep. Whether we're land
or sea farmers, we have limitedaccess to land, especially in
the Northeast, and because we'reso congested and built up and so
with the ocean, it seems likethat's even bigger, because you
(16:30):
have a really limited amount ofland that you can access before
you get into I'm imagining likeinternational waters, and I
would imagine You can't rentthere, and I'm figuring you've
got to stay kind of like, isthere a distance from the shore
that is ideal versus not ideal?Yeah. So it's a very, it sounds
(16:51):
like a very delicate balancethat you have
Unknown (16:55):
to Yes, yes. We have. There's some regulations around
where we can and where we cannotsuggest aquaculture activity we
are. And then there's also, youknow, protected species
controls. So being offshore withlines, that's something that's
very difficult to permit becauseof risk of entanglement. So
(17:16):
we're very much restricted,literally in the law and also
practically to be in the coastalzone. So that's within, you
know, less than a mile from fromshore. Obviously, half a mile. I
mean, the bay is we all ouraquaculture is in the bay,
Narragansett Bay, or our coastalsalt ponds, so Nina grit pond,
(17:37):
etc, Point Judith pond. So it's,there is a little bit of
aquaculture just outside in,like the harbor refuge and a few
other places. But really,there's nothing out past, out in
the open ocean in Rhode Island,and we're not there's no
suggestions to nor are weallowed to fish farm. So it's
(17:59):
only shellfish and and macroalgae like kelp. At this time,
it's only kelp we're notpermitted to to grow any other
algae trying to think andmussels, scallops, bay scallops,
oysters, so shellfish, and thensugar kelp,
K Castrataro (18:14):
okay, and so I don't know if you know anything
about seaweed. Like seaweedfarming, is kelp considered a
seaweed, or are they? Are theysimilar, different? I'm showing
my ignorance here, but I'mtotally okay doing that, because
how am I going to learn if Idon't ask questions? I love it.
Unknown (18:34):
I love it. I think that's great. Seaweed. When we
say seaweed, it's all thedifferent algae. So you have
three categories of algae in theocean, macro algae, so the big
stuff you can touch, not thephytoplankton. Three categories,
there's brown, green and red. Soall those are called seaweeds.
And there's 1000s of species. Imean, 1000s of species, even in
(18:57):
Rhode Island, hundreds ofspecies. The greens are like sea
lettuce. Sometimes you see itlooks like that, bright green.
The reds are sometimes you'llsee it washed up on the shore.
There's different it's calledgracilaria. It's kind of this,
like, beautiful. There's artiststhat make nice pressings out of
it. Yeah. Rust. Many morespecies, yeah. And then the
browns. There's also otherspecies, but kelp is considered
(19:20):
one of the browns and when wesay kelp, it's the it's talking
about the brown algae. So kelpis many species of brown algaes.
Sugar kelp is, this is the exactspecies, saccharina latissimus.
So it is very confusing. Well,
K Castrataro (19:36):
I heard, I heard you say sugar kelp then. And so
that was part of what promptedthat question, because I was
curious about how that
Unknown (19:44):
works. We mix them all, and it's so confusing. So
really, it's just a sugar kelp.
K Castrataro (19:49):
So all those other types of seaweed we're not
actually growing,
Unknown (19:53):
no, we definitely could, and there's much interest
in growing them, and there's amarket, the permitting process.
Is not set up to allow us to dothat.
K Castrataro (20:02):
I see, I see well, and that is, I have, you know, I
used to be an extension agent inRhode Island as well, so I've
kind of dabbled with a lot ofall of this, I know, just enough
to be dangerous in just aboutevery area of agriculture. And
so in Rhode Island, we have, onthe one hand, we have a very
(20:27):
supportive Division ofAgriculture Department. We have
a division under the under dem,the Department of Environmental
Management, and they've beenhugely supportive and have
worked really hard on a lot ofthese permitting processes.
Because, as you rightlymentioned, like there are, we
(20:48):
have lots of permittingprocesses for all different
types of agriculturalactivities, and they are
necessary because, you know, youget a couple bad actors in
there, and it, it can ruin itfor everybody. And so you
actually do need to almostprotect the good farmers,
sometimes from the ones thatwould push, push the boundaries,
(21:09):
and also to provide someprotection for all of the
farmers, because sometimes weend up with issues with
neighbors that are like, well, Iwant to be able to put my boat
through here faster than you sayI should be able to, because
it's going to affect your kelpand, excuse me, to have, like a
right to right to farm law thatsays, No, I can actually farm
(21:30):
this here. And you have to workwith people that's that's really
fascinating. So I would like togo a little bit to the markets
that you were talking about andjust figure out, where are you
selling your kelp, and how muchdo you process it? Like, what
kind of processing Do youyourself do?
Unknown (21:52):
Yeah, that's great. I and I just would reiterate how
wonderful our division of AG is.I mean, our chief is an amazing
human being and his team.They're just, they really are
supportive. There's, it's calledthe local agriculture seafood
act, LAHSA grant program thatthey've kept alive, come thick
and thin, and it's this veryapplied, like, funds for farmers
(22:16):
to, like, buy a tractor or makea greenhouse or so. It's so, so
wonderful. And I willacknowledge we are recipients.
My oyster farm is a recipient ofthe loss of grant this year. So
farm too, yep, they just walkthe walk or whatever that they
are amazing. So our markets arestrictly agricultural. So we
(22:37):
sell to animal, livestockcustomers. So chicken, sheep,
pigs. It's just incrediblebenefits for those critters,
those farmers. And then we alsosell for soil amendments, so
both forms. It's just the driedkelp that you saw here. You
don't do any other processing.There's some customers that were
(22:59):
like the kelp blanch, so it'sjust dipped in hot water, and it
cuts the salt and the iodine abit. So for certain creatures,
that's better. So that's reallyour simple market. I mean, I'll
show you my this is the storageof the just yard bags of, like,
fried you know what I mean,kelp. Yeah. And I have an honor
system at my greenhouse, I havea bin out front, and it's, it's
(23:23):
Muslim bags of kelp, and folkscan just come and grab it if
they want more. They message me.I say, Come inside, grab a bag.
So it's very down home, local,and that's how I want it to be.
I don't want to go past NewEngland. I mean, I shouldn't say
that. I don't have the capacityto set up an infrastructure to
go past New England in terms ofthat. I love, love it. So that's
(23:47):
our markets. We do have a sugarkelp pearls, which is a chef
made batch, made product everyseason. She makes us a limited
number of these pearls. It's avegan caviar. So it looks just
like caviar, the little roundballs caviar is fish eggs, which
is a very extractive product.Fish are harvested or killed
(24:11):
just for those eggs. And that'sa huge and it's very expensive.
Those folks who are vegan orvegetarian and don't want to
contend with those issues, canpurchase this product. So this
is something where you can puton your oysters, you can put on
your salads. You put them in amartini. They're amazing. And
(24:32):
it's just a vinegar based smallball of goat in this sort of
beautiful, sort of gelatinlooking ball. So we have that
product, also very local. It'sat fresh harvest kitchen in
Westerly. Folks want to buy someand then we are right now
working on two early stagepatents for two products that
(24:56):
will involve kelp, so hopefullynext
K Castrataro (24:58):
year. Can't ask you any questions. Questions
about that, because we don'twant to mess with your
patenting.
Unknown (25:03):
I mean stuff, but my team is amazing innovators, so
that's kind of cool, and we'rehoping to get that would
service. One would be for theagricultural market and one
would be for other markets thatexist worldwide, so hopefully.
But again, it's really just likea slow slog. Both of those
(25:25):
products too. I just theDepartment of Health in Rhode
Island is a really greatorganization, but I don't think
they still know what to do withkelp, so it's very difficult.
There's no official process fordrying kelp for food, right? It
so that that that I've chosen tonot beat my head against the
wall and pursue so I'm goingother directions with
K Castrataro (25:47):
products, and that is another thing that takes
years, because I know justgetting, getting on farm,
processing of meat was a really,really tough thing to do so that
you could sell that resell thatmeat like to just process it for
yourself. Was never a problem.But, like, I remember when the
(26:07):
first farmer was going throughthat, and it took him, I think
it might have been five yearsthat he worked on, like,
educating and coming up withsolutions, like just so much
determination and creativitywith support from the department
of the division of Ag, because,you know, the Department of
(26:31):
Health, they just come from acompletely different
perspective. And it's not a badperspective, it's just a
completely different framework.Like most of them have never
been on a farm, so they don'tunderstand, you know, you say,
Oh, we're going to be sellingmeat from the farm. And they're
picturing, like, manureeverywhere, and, you know, hay
in the in the me. And they'relike, No, we can't do that. And
(26:54):
so, you know, all of theseprocesses, it's not just a
matter of, let's come up with agood process. It's also we have
to do a lot of educating. And soI mean this kind of moves into
where I always like to turnthese conversations at some
point to talk about things like,what, what do you do to keep
(27:15):
yourself centered and growingand healthy yourself while
you're going through this,because all of these processes
can take a real toll on us, bothemotionally and relationally. I
think, you know, some farmersend up very, very angry with the
government agencies and so thatwhole like communication. How do
(27:39):
we communicate about ourlivelihood, and which is also
our passion, but it's it's ourlivelihood. And how do we
communicate about thatrespectfully with people who
just don't understand and andnot don't understand because
they're stupid, but just don'tunderstand because they're not
exposed to this stuff. So whatcan you talk to some of that for
(28:00):
us. Have you had any of thosekinds of experiences, and how do
you keep yourself healthy doingall this?
Unknown (28:08):
Yeah, I have not figured that out yet, but some
strategies I'm working on aredefinitely that community I
mentioned, you know, hunkeringdown a little bit. And I think
that's a strategy separate justfrom my farm, just sort of a
survival tactic in today'suncertain and changing world.
And I think there's a bit of abrokenness to humanity in some
(28:32):
ways, but in noticing that I'msort of going back to growing
up. You know, I remember themotto growing up. It was think
globally, act locally. Remember,that was when recycling, I
remember that, yes, 80s motto.It was that and like mad. You
know, Mothers Against Drunk.There's sort of things that I'm
(28:53):
sort of like, Wait, what are?Just say no. So I think the
Think globally act locally iswhat I'm applying in my farm
world, where I'm hunkering downand I'm making the spheres of
influence and onion very small.So I start with my family, and
then it's my friends and mycommunity, and that's it. So
(29:14):
anything else there might beshreds of time and energy for
then that that that's a fourthpriority. So just trying to,
like, honor that, and that keepsme okay. Is this action, is this
path that I'm going to choosefor product? Is that going to
disintegrate any element of thatfirst core of family? Okay? No,
(29:35):
okay. How about friends? Like,is it going to require some, you
know, because we I'm an onlychild, so friends have just
always been a huge part of mylife. And we are really so
blessed. Our friends are justamazing people. We've had for 20
years, and we're all raising ourkids, so that's they're your
family. Yeah, we lean on eachother. You know, you're away.
(29:57):
It's a hurricane. Can you justgo? Make sure the house isn't
flooding. That's a second away.And so then, and then community
is this larger group of peoplethat are like ourselves, right?
And people that you check in on,you kind of look after. And we
have some tactics at home we tryto do to keep those things
alive. I think that helps me alot. Yeah, and then, and then
(30:20):
this, yeah, self care. I mean,you kidding me? 25 pounds over,
there's just a constant. And Iyou just have to be like, you
know, I don't know the wrinklesare going to be the wrinkles.
I'm not dying my hair anymore.These are my own. I'm not going
to fuss about being a 50 yearold woman and trying to look
(30:42):
anything other than my 50 yearold self in this moment, and
just trying to embrace that, youknow? And it's, it's tricky,
right? You're
K Castrataro (30:49):
like, and you're stunningly beautiful. Like, you
need to know that. I mean,you've got, you've got the
southern cow look going. So likeyou are, you are, so don't whose
podcast is this?
Unknown (31:01):
Try the spotlight back to you, right back at you, you
know. And those are good things,because it's practicing honoring
a whole nother phase of likemenopause and, you know, coming
into this new era as a woman,and not it being not the end of
something, but rather thebeginning of something, right?
Like, You've nurtured thisfamily, you've grown these
(31:24):
things, so trying to really, butit's, it's tricky, and you got
to keep the right people aroundyou, and it's work, and keep the
energy vampires away. Like,there's a lot of those. And I
just try to try and try, andsome days are better than
others, right? Some days you'relike, Yeah, I'm gonna curl up
and suck my thumb all night andwatch some crappy sitcom, I
(31:48):
don't even know, and just beokay with that, and nothing's
gonna get done. And another day,
K Castrataro (31:53):
Chinese dramas, those are my my guilty pleasure,
are silly Chinese dramas, justbecause it gets me completely
out of my life, and I'm like, Igotta use subtitles, and then I
get tired faster because I'mreading.
Unknown (32:07):
It's like, they're abstract, silent, whatever those
kinds, whatever you need, right?
Sometimes days you're hitting itout of the park, right? Because
we're women, and we can take ona million things, and we can hit
all of them out of the park. Soit's sort of like just honoring
that that tips. It tips. Andthere's not a steady state
happiness or steady statesadness or and that's the world
(32:29):
too, right? Like, I think thefarm has really the kelp farm in
particular, because it's awinter so kelp is winter only.
So we it's like flipped from theland farmer. So when the land
farmers are like, harvesting andgetting ready for the winter.
We're like, getting our seed andwe're planting for the winter,
so it grows all winter, and thenwe harvest in the spring. So
(32:49):
it's like, this cool flip, and Ithink I'm out there every week,
all winter, January, February.Like, doesn't matter, out on
K Castrataro (32:56):
the water, cold. Very cold. Out on the water.
Unknown (33:01):
I love the cold, and I it's a very it's like, a secret.
It's like, I'm out there. I'mlike, I'm privy to a secret.
Like, thanks. I won't tellocean. Like, it's just this
quiet time. And I think that hasshowed me, like, yeah, things
are, you know, slow and steady,and sometimes then they're
frantic, and then they're so theseasonality of kelp farming has
been really helpful for me torecognize. And again, sometimes
(33:26):
we do it better than others.Some days are better than
others. Well,
K Castrataro (33:29):
I love that because, you know, I've been
thinking about that whole ideaof equilibrium, because I think,
I think we have this idea thatif we're going to be healthy,
we're going to get balanced, andwe're going to keep our life in
balance, which aren't we alltrying to find balance, whatever
that looks like. And what Irealized just recently is that
(33:51):
that balance never stays thesame, because if you're growing,
if you are a person who isgrowing and learning and
changing, you are constantlygoing to be expanding into
something new, into somethingdifferent, even if it's just a
different version of your ownawareness. But that shifts
things. And so then that balancehas to get re established. And
(34:16):
for a while I was feeling reallyfrustrated with myself because I
would have like balance, like,I'd have about a month where I
was like, Wow, this system isreally working for me. It's
perfect. Like, I'm gettingeverything done, like, this is
great. And then all of a suddenit would fall apart. And I I
noticed that it usually wouldfall apart just about the time
(34:38):
that I expanded into somethingnew, where all of a sudden I was
stretching out of my comfortzone. And so then all of those
systems that were working werestill supportive, but, but the
balance was a little upset. Andso then it's like you got to
reconfigure it get to that, thatsense of stasis from. In it, and
(35:00):
then that gives you, that givesyou a platform to move to
something that you knowdifferent. And so I think that
idea of the seasonality and justreally accepting that, I think
that's such a beautiful image,like I really, I really am
resonating with that right now.
Unknown (35:17):
So thank you for sharing. It's like a visceral
reminder that it's that up anddown, and that balance has to be
it's like a very visceralbecause you're like, oh,
literally, the everything haschanged, like the trees are
sleeping. And it's a really nicefor me. I love the winter
because it is my It's a giftfrom the natural world to remind
us that we're not functioningoutside of that, that cycle. You
(35:41):
know, we have our own so andthat, and girlfriend check in
time. Like, I have amazinggirlfriends who are just love
you for who you are. We have, wecall it Vegas time on the boat.
Like, what happens and says onthe boat, stays on the boat,
because, and that's someFridays, Friday Farm Days. And
it's just, we just let it allhang out as like, this is my
(36:05):
bow, my rules, and anythinggoes, but just, don't, you know,
so we it's just kind of a fun
K Castrataro (36:10):
we'll do, we'll do anything we want, and nobody
ever has to know.
Unknown (36:15):
Yeah, you just, you know, there's a lot of bombs
flying, but it's just a way tokind of so I think that that
community, having your, youknow, the peeps, because that's
not your family, like yourfamily, you kind of have a role
that you pull you show up as arole. You show up as mom, you
show up as wife, you're not yourfull self. So I think those
communities, yeah, for me,that's really helpful. Like
(36:38):
going out for a walk, anything,any way you want to be with
them, even if it's for steal anhour, is so amazing. Like, I
need that.
K Castrataro (36:46):
So, yeah, oh, I love, I love what you were
saying there about the rolesthat we play in the family.
Because I usually think that,like a lot, a lot of people that
I know do have roles still intheir friendships, like there
are certain people that maybethey're the nurturer of the
friendship, or, you know,they're not necessarily free to
(37:07):
be all of themselves. And, youknow, I'm like that with my
sister, and you know, I've gotsome college friends that are
just that way. You know, we gettogether, and it's just, it all
hangs out, and there's there.There are no secrets. It's just,
yep, this is, this is what'sgoing on. And I love that you
have that because, because Ithink we need that. I think all
of us have this inner need to beseen and to be heard and to be
(37:30):
valued for who we are in all ofourselves, like, not just in the
I'm holding it together. I'm,you know, I'm looking good. I've
got my my stuff together, butwhen the stuff isn't together,
when we're falling apart, whenwe're having a meltdown, when
we're you mentioned menopause,and I just did a post not too
(37:54):
long ago about, does your farmneed a perimenopause protection
plan? And I was like, Yeah, Itotally do. Because, you know,
perimenopause sucks. Can I justsay because all of a sudden,
it's like you're a teenageragain, with your body going
nuts, only you've got the wisdomof four or five decades saying,
(38:17):
wait a minute, I did not do thisbefore, like, this is not the
way my body worked, and what I'mdoing feels insane.
Unknown (38:27):
Yes, totally.
K Castrataro (38:30):
And so that's one of those phases of life, I
think, where you know when we'reon, I feel like this time of
life for us, we do have so muchwisdom, so much energy, in a lot
of ways, because we're stillrelatively young and and yet we
have, we've learned how to takecare of ourselves a little bit
(38:50):
more, usually, after having goneout, gone through burnout, and
learned how not to take care ofourselves. But we've got all
this stuff that we still want todo, and then we have, like,
these, these few days where allof a sudden, like, we get taken
over by this demon, and it'slike, Whoa, what the heck just
happened? At least this is myexperience with it. Like my poor
(39:11):
kids were looking at me one day,and they're like, What the heck
happened to mom? And they'relike, Mom, we thought you were
gonna kill us. And I was like, Ithought I might kill somebody,
and we weren't really, it wasn'tbad. It was just some yelling,
but the fact that I was, like,yelling and screaming and
swearing, they're like, Wait,whoa. What did you do with my
(39:33):
mother? And you have almost thisout of body experience where you
can, like, see yourself doingthis stuff, and you're like,
Wow, that's a little crazy.
Unknown (39:42):
You can do to stop it?
No, well, it's, it's almost Iwas thinking about when we
chatted before these windows oftime. And I feel like my window
of time is now, between now and55 and it's very like not
everybody has probably specifictime. I'm lying on that window,
right? But you can kind ofintuitively feel it. And I feel
(40:05):
like this is the only time Icould have ever become a farmer.
This is the only time I couldever have built this community
of been a part of and sort ofcontributed to this community of
farmers, ocean farmers andwomen. It's like, literally,
right now. And I think thatthat's partly because of that
(40:27):
wisdom, like you're saying of alifetime, right? And we all
bring our specific wisdoms fromour lived experiences. And I
think I'm like, super excitedabout that, and I feel like I
get really, like, angry andgrumpy, when the sort of
societal portrait of that islike, oh, you know the decline.
(40:48):
You're in your decline. And I myhusband does this too. I don't
even think he realizes it, but Ithink men have a different
midlife experience where he'sseeing like, Oh, my God. You
know, my physicality is mydefining feature, and that's
changing, and I have bustedknees and hurting back, and so
he's like, has a negative skewon this phase of life where I'm
(41:09):
like, Oh no. And I get veryangry. I'm like, do not take
this and make negative. Don'tnegative eyes my happy time in
life, you know. So I get verylike, protective of this window
of like, this is my five years,five years left to do all this.
And I it's like, a clear It's asclear as if someone, like, put
the little chip in my brain islike, here's your map. Do it
(41:30):
now. This is your window. Andit's not because something's
bad. It's gonna happen after.It's just that this is the
effective time. Like, this iskind of when you're this is when
the plant is producing the mostpowerful medicinal quality,
K Castrataro (41:43):
because you're, I love that you were using into
intuitive. You know, you saidit's intuitive, yep, yep, when
we start to really connect withourselves and what what our
purpose is. And I've said thisbefore on this show, but I
firmly believe that every singleone of us is here for a purpose,
and when we connect with thatpurpose, that does give us
(42:07):
energy and enthusiasm and joyand passion and and that, like
totally I'm gonna do thisbecause I was meant to do it,
and it doesn't matter if anybodyunderstands. It doesn't matter
if it makes sense, because thereis a sense within really, like
totally. I mean, how manypeople, if you look at the
(42:29):
really influential, I love how Italk, if you look at the really
influential people in thehistory of the world, how many
of them were doing the sensiblethings when they were doing what
they were doing that changed theworld. People looked at them and
thought they were crazy. Youknow, what are you talking
about? That the Earth goesaround the sun. Yeah, lunatic.
(42:53):
That's not the way it works.Like doing things that just
seemed not sensible. And now welook at them, and they're, you
know, the heroes of history. Andso I think each one of us has
that hero in us, and and, yeah,when that, when that calling
comes, like, go with it. Go.Well,
Unknown (43:14):
it's funny when it services society and family and
relationships, like, oh,mother's instinct. You know, all
lean on that mother. You're theone that connects and bonds with
the baby like that's valued, butthen when that instinct has
been, you know, gratefully lentto that experience. But now we
want to use that instinct toenhance ourselves or a calling
(43:36):
or a purpose, then, then we'recrazy. So it's like, oh, when it
services, when it services, thatinstinct is super valuable, and
you, in fact, lean on it toraise the children of the world.
But then when we want to usethat exact same instinct to
further ourself and our calling,we're, you know, emotional or
(43:57):
irrational or selfish or Yeah,so that's a very and I have
learned to shielding tech. Ihave this thing, and I get all
crazy on I love planes, I lovetraveling, but I do this thing
where I visualize a shieldaround my family. It's so
ridiculous. And I actuallypicture like a pangolin. You're
seeing this cool critter, thispangolin. I love them with the
scales, yeah. So I literallypicture pangolin shields around
(44:21):
my kids, and then it's radiatinglight, and I protect them. So
I've learned I don't even fromwhat I don't know, but I just do
it and and then I've been doingthat with that instinct, like,
No, this is a pangolin, this isa shield, and you're going to
try to hack at it. And it's notlike intentional, it's just the
flow of the the American societyin particular, we don't those
(44:41):
things aren't valued, so they'rethey're ticked, they're
ridiculed or attacked, evenunintentionally. So I
K Castrataro (44:47):
put this shield around it, around us when we
shift, when we shift somethingabout ourselves, it makes
everybody uncomfortable, becauseit changes everybody's
interactions. It's like we weretalking about growing and having
to. Establish our own sense ofequilibrium and how that is a
never ending process. And so thepeople around us, as we grow and
(45:08):
change, they have to change withus, and they either like it or
don't like it. You know, it'seither easy or difficult, but
they're going to want to bringus back into what's familiar,
even if what we're movingtowards is better, you know,
because familiar is safe andkind of different is scary. And
(45:28):
I just want to say yourshielding technique, well, I
just want to tell you yourshielding technique is not at
all crazy. And when you weresaying I got chills, because
every day before my children goto school, and actually, I do it
with the neighbors as well. Nowmy kids are middle schoolers, so
my son is 13, my daughter's 11,and the boys next door are the
(45:50):
same age. So I'm standing outthere at the bus stop with these
four teenagers, and I make themall put their shield of faith,
and we physically do it. We puttheir shield of faith. And then
I go and I give them each a hug,and I fill it with love. And so
it's that same thing where we'reputting a shield of protection
around them for the day, andwe're filling it with all of our
(46:11):
love so that they know thatwhatever is coming at them, the
crap, is not going to have roomto come in, but all the good
stuff is going to be able toseep right into that love, and
it's just going to be a part ofthem. And so, no, I totally love
that you do that and and it'strue like, I mean, the fact that
(46:31):
I've got four teenagers who dothat and do not balk at I mean,
two of them aren't even mine,makes sense that my kids would
do the crazy things that themother says the two Kids Next
Door do it too. Like, who's everheard of such a thing? So, you
know, there is that you do.There is energy in the world
(46:52):
and, and I'm looking at thetime, and I'm saying, Ah, and
Unknown (46:55):
we haven't even, we're just totally went on a on a
sideline, and I love it so well,
K Castrataro (47:00):
this is no, this is so this is what we do. Here
is we always start, we alwaysstart farm focused, awesome, and
we stay farm focused. It dependson, honestly, it probably mostly
depends on how familiar I amwith your type of farming. If I
know you're farming really well,then we quickly move into other
areas. But if I'm learningstuff, I'm like, oh, I want to
(47:24):
learn that. Oh, I want to learnthat. And then then we come to
Unknown (47:28):
this type time of the
K Castrataro (47:30):
the episode where I ask my signature question. And
this is the question I askeverybody. If you had one piece
of advice that you wanted everyfarmer to know, what would that
be?
Unknown (47:45):
Oh, boy, that's an easy one.
K Castrataro (47:52):
I'm good at the easy questions. I would say to
well, you
Unknown (47:59):
know, honor thyself. Or, you know, there's that sort
of a but it's somethingdifferent from that. It starts
with that, and then it kind ofgoes to, you are, I think
farmers, whatever kind offarming, ocean farming, land
farming, starting out farming,big farming. There is a
connection to the earth. Andyou're right. There's some
(48:21):
practices that are moresustainable than others, but I
think there is some sort of pullto our world, right, our
physical world, like our Earth.And I think that that sometimes
My piece of advice would be tojust kind of try to check in
with that, like no matter whereyou're at in that journey.
(48:43):
Because I think there is someintuitive advice through that.
You know the there, there issomething that will become
apparent in that decision point,that decision tree, that if you
go back to the roots right, theroots will inform that tree. So
I think sometimes i Theeagerness to pursue kelp as this
(49:04):
really wonderful marketpotential for all these
different products, right? Sokelp is used in bio bio fuel,
it's used in fertilizers, it'sused in products, it's used in
all these things. So there's bioplastics even there's a whole
bio plastics industry that usesreally remarkable market
(49:24):
opportunities, but I think asindividual enterprises, we need
to check back in with thatconnection, because scale isn't
always the answer. Maybe scaleis the answer. Keeping local
might not be the answer, butmaybe it is the answer. And I
think sometimes all the adviceand the input around the
(49:45):
industry is to just check intothat the roots of being a
farmer, which it truly is, youknow, connected to the earth in
some way. And I think that isnot always easy to do. And like,
like you just did when westarted, you took a breath. Like
how a simple gesture of pause,and I think for farmers that
that's the breath it's
K Castrataro (50:07):
to just check back into to to what the Earth has to
say to you, you know. And youcall it woo, woo con, call it
whatever, some but I knowfarmers do it, and I don't care
who you are, but they do someform of that. And I think just
to remember that in any phase ofyour journey as a farmer. Oh,
Azure, so much. There I I amitching to to throw my five
(50:33):
cents in, but I'm not going to,because what you said was
beautiful, and I want to leaveit with your voice. I want to
thank you so much for joiningus. And as your new products
come out, we'll have to get youon again and talk about how your
patents went. And for all of youout there, thank you so much for
joining us on Food, Flowers andFun, and we will see you next
(50:55):
time. Thank you.
Unknown (51:00):
Farm. What's calling our show is all done, goodbye,
farewell, so long, Adieu, seeyou next week, same time, same
place for Food, Flowers and Fun,go in peace.
Visit us atwww.penlightfarmers.com
you.
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