November 7, 2025 • 49 mins
Episode fifteen of Food, Flowers, & Fun: Visits with farm women from around the world features freelance farmer and fermenter Elizabeth Resnick as we discuss:
- Working through injuries
- Valuing the farmer as well as the farm
- Loving farm life
- Resenting farm life
- Much, much more!
You will love this diverse and multi-talented farmer!
About Liz:
Elizabeth Resnick’s background includes working in a lawyer’s office in New York City, fermenting kimchi, butchering chickens…and that’s just the beginning. She speaks three languages, has traveled extensively, and has written about her experiences in various publications.
Connect with Liz at:
- Website: https://www.sonima.com/author/liz-resnick/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/liz.res
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lizres/
Connect with K at:
- Website: https://www.penlightfarmers.com
- YouTube: @k.castrataro3466
- Facebook and Instagram: @penlightfarmers
- Podcast (audio): https://www.penlightfarmers.com/podcast
- Podcast (video): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIVBn53rrIsTwS4ag6hH4DHnxG_Lxqt7x
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
K Castrataro (00:00):
What if a small investment in your mental health
(00:03):
could keep your body farming forthe next 5, 10, or even 20
years? Listen in as freelancefarmer Liz Resnick shares her
experiences with farm injury andmental health in this episode of
Food, Flowers and Fun (00:17):
Visits with farm women from around the
world, we are sponsored, asalways, by Pen Light for
Farmers, helping farmers achievemore time, energy and abundance,
Unknown (00:38):
if you're the woman who does it all? Farm work,
housework, book work, homework,getting up at the break of dawn.
This is the podcast for you. Getaway from the cares of the day.
Restock, rootstock, feedstock,seed, stock. Chat with women
(01:00):
around the world to raise foodflowers and fun with your host,
K Castrataro, that's me.
K Castrataro (01:09):
So welcome back to this episode of Food, Flowers
and Fun. And today we have LizResnick, who is Freelancer
extraordinaire. She doesfreelance tutoring, she does
freelance translation, and sheeven does freelance fermenting.
Yep, so let's get right in. Liz,welcome to our show today.
Unknown (01:34):
How are you? I'm great. Thank you so much for having me.
K Castrataro (01:37):
K, Oh, I'm so glad to have you. And you know you
just from your introduction, youare a very diverse and multi
talented person. And so I'mwondering if you can start by
just giving us a little bit ofyour background, so that the
listeners out there who don'thaven't met you before are going
(01:58):
to get a sense for who you areand your eclectic and very multi
talented nature.
Unknown (02:06):
Well, it's a long story, but I'll try to keep it
relatively short. I started offmy career in international
development, and then moved intofood photography, immigration
law, publishing, some freelancewriting for a yoga and
meditation website. I was allover the place, bouncing around
(02:29):
trying to figure out what, whatresonated, what felt like it was
the thing my thing from the listyou gave. Obviously, I'm still
trying to figure out what thething My thing is, but for a
while, I settled on to farming.I was living in New York City
(02:54):
and feeling really ground downby the hustle and the commute
and the overstimulation and thenoise pollution and the all of
the craziness of New York City,right? And so I started reading
about food and farming andhealth, and I was having some
(03:18):
mysterious health issues of myown. So there was personal
curiosity driving this, like, Isthere something I should be
doing differently with how I'meating to help my body? And
somebody gave me a memoir whichreally spoke to me and launched
(03:38):
then this whole journey with thefarm that I've worked on, on and
off for the past five years.
K Castrataro (03:46):
So okay, so you've, you start off in New
York City, you end up going andkind of interning at first at
this farm. Am I right that youwere, you were kind of interning
there, but this farm does a lotof stuff, right? So you were,
you were doing livestock, youwere doing fruits and
(04:08):
vegetables. Tell us a little bitabout like, the work that you
did on the farm.
Unknown (04:11):
So we had to do an intro week as, like, a week long
working interview. So I did thatfirst, and then I was hired on
full time. And full time wasfull time. We were working like
six to six, five days a week,year round, and yeah. So I was
mostly in veg, but I also helpedin the on farm butcher shop. I
(04:37):
was doing value addedprocessing, which is where the
freelance fermentation has grownout of.
K Castrataro (04:46):
And you also said you were doing some chicken
slaughtering this year. So sowe've got freelance chicken
slaughtering too.
Unknown (04:52):
Yes, yes. This was where I first learned my my
chicken evisceration skills.And. Is my vegetable
fermentation skills, among manyother, many other bizarre and
eclectic skills one learns on afarm. So it's most mostly in bed
I say. I've done pretty mucheverything on the farm now over
(05:13):
the past five and a half years,except working with the live
animals. I only work with thedead animals or their
byproducts. I also did dairyprocessing for about a year. So,
so, so let me ask
K Castrataro (05:28):
you a little bit because part of the reason you
got into the farming to beginwith was that you were feeling
really burnt out and notconnected to yourself and and
the nature, nature, and, youknow, the environment, when you
were in New York City, and youkind of went through some
burnout farming as well. Youended up getting injured. And
(05:50):
talk to me a little bit aboutthat, because I think, you know,
this is something that a lot offarmers struggle with. You know,
we get into farming and we push,push, push, push, push. And we
have this stigma against, like,taking a break, acknowledging
that we're injured, any of thatkind of stuff. So talk to me
(06:13):
about what that was like foryou. You know, what led to your
injury? What kind of injury itwas. How did you come back from
that?
Unknown (06:22):
So I had a pre existing wrist issue, like a chronic
overuse, kind of tendonitis inmy right wrist. And I had had it
already when I started on thefarm for a couple years. I
chalked it up to poor deskergonomics, and especially when
(06:47):
I was working at a law firm, Ihad to do a lot of tiny mouse
movements back and forth fillingout forms. So I had tried a
bunch of things like physicaltherapy and massage therapy, and
I could get it kind of okay, andI really was just hoping it
(07:07):
would go away, and I had maybesome inkling it was related to
stress, but I wasn't. It wasn'tbad enough that I felt like I
can't do this farming thing, andI also felt like I had no other
option. I needed to get out ofthe city this the job on this
(07:28):
farm presented itself, and thatwas my out. And I felt like I
couldn't I couldn't think abouthow it might impact my risks,
even though it did already inthat first intro week, sort of
exacerbate the issue, and I wentto the city, and my massage
therapist kind of put me backtogether and and I was just so
(07:49):
overwhelmed. I was like, okay,great, here we go. So I made it
maybe from June to October, andI was, I was mostly fine with
the wrists, but I think therewas some, maybe some building
(08:10):
extra tension in my wrists. Andthen there was this one fateful
day when I was topping leakswith a dull machete for at least
a couple hours, whacking reallyhard, far harder than one should
have to and just taking all ofthat impact in my wrist, yeah.
(08:33):
And I kind of felt thisdefinitive, like tweak, yep. And
I kept going because, becausethe leaks
K Castrataro (08:45):
were still there and they needed to be topped
Yes.
Unknown (08:50):
And it was a combination of, I think, my own
lack of self confidence andability to assert myself and to
believe that my needs werevaluable in this context, and
also a more general farm culturearound working through it,
(09:15):
working, working These longhours, intent really intensely
maximizing speed and efficiency,and we were already a sizable
team, but there was still thisconstant feeling like there's
infinite work. We're nevergetting enough done, and that
(09:36):
everybody is crucial to makingthis happen, and especially in
that in October, it during FallHarvest, everything, it's the
culmination. Everything is soheightened. It feels so
important, like if we don't getthese leaks out of the ground
right now, we're not going tohave leaks.
K Castrataro (09:55):
No freeze. You're going to get a freeze. And then
then everything is. Done likeit, it's done exactly, yeah, so
I didn't stop to be I find thatto be a really interesting
thing, like time, that idea ofthere never being enough time,
that is something I am hearingover and over from farmers, that
(10:16):
they just feel I don't haveenough time. And that is such a
mindset shift that I like towork with farmers to try to
shift, to say, You know what,there is enough time. Whatever
you need to get done, you willhave the time to do it. It's
that kind of like the law ofrelativity, like we can stretch
(10:38):
time if we need to, and, youknow what, if it doesn't get
done, it doesn't get done today,tomorrow's another day. And I
know that man that rankles forfarmers and and we've got to be
careful with that. You know, wedon't want to just say, Oh,
well, I can go eat bonbons allday and, and it'll be fine. But
there has to be a sense in whichwe start to shift our narrative
(11:01):
so that we do recognize thatthere is enough time, because we
actually get more done in lesstime, if we take that approach,
as opposed to then you getinjured. So you got injured, and
how did that impact yourproductivity?
Unknown (11:19):
It wasn't good for it, although I really did my darnest
to pretend like nothing waswrong. I I just kind of ignored
it. I maybe would sort of do amassage or, like, rub some balm
on it, and it just it wasn'tgetting better. And then I got a
(11:43):
brace for it, and I just triedto do everything but wearing a
brace, and that sort of helped,but not really. And eventually
it got to the point where we,the farm uses WhatsApp loops for
communication. There's like ananimal team loop and a vegetable
(12:04):
team loop. And we had one calledone hand, and it was where my
managers could post tasks for meto do that I could do with one
hand. And so this went on from,it's the Gympie loop.
K Castrataro (12:21):
This one on Friday made you feel real good that you
were one hand.
Unknown (12:28):
How long did it go? I'm sorry, from October to January.
The beginning of January,basically, um, and I then in
January, one evening, I wasangry shoveling because of some
tense communication issuesaround the snow removal at the
(12:53):
house where I was living and whowas responsible for it, and it,
it was starting to feel Like asafety issue because the
driveway was getting icy, so I'mout there shoveling at night,
fuming, and I tweaked the otherwrist in exactly the same way,
(13:15):
and that was the critical Momentof what I call my body, pulling
the emergency brake. And it waslike, Okay, you now have no
hands. I couldn't do anything.It was, it was an issue I later
found out, with a tendon thatruns from the elbow all the way
(13:36):
around to through the thumb, soanything involving my thumbs or
like, or gripping was painful.
K Castrataro (13:43):
Oh, you mean, like, holding things, yeah,
squeezing things, manipulatingthings.
Unknown (13:53):
I literally, I couldn't wash my hair without pain.
Yeah? Because think about it.You
you scrunch Yeah, right. And so13
K Castrataro (14:04):
year old boy, in which case this is not a
problem, says the mother of a 13year old boy, oh, man, so. So
what do you do in thatsituation? Like, I know you are
not the only like, I am surethat we are talking to people
out here who have run into thissituation. And it might not have
(14:24):
been two hands, but I know formy mom, it was two knees. You
know, you know, we can veryeasily get ourselves into a
position where we are kind ofcrippled on the farm. And then
what do we do about that? So howdid, how did you finally manage
(14:44):
this? Because now you've nowyou're no hand.
Unknown (14:48):
Yeah, we couldn't have a no hand loop.
You could do with your mouth.
Start typing with my nose. So Ifinally. I had to address the
issue with my managers and theowner of the farm and I but I
was still not fullyacknowledging what was going on.
(15:11):
I said I needed to go home fortwo weeks, and it was January,
and while it is, this is a yearround farm, things were slower,
and to me, that felt reasonable.I was like, Okay, now I'm not
needed. I can take some space togo back to my mom's and and
(15:33):
rest. And I thought, after twoweeks, I'll be fine. I'll just
come back and keep doing what wewere doing. Ha, ha, ha. That is
not what happened. Two weeksbecame three weeks. Three weeks
became four weeks. And after Ihad been back home at my mom's
(15:53):
for a month, I finally, Ifinally realized that I was
dreading the idea of going backto the farm and that I also
couldn't because nothing hadchanged in my wrists, they still
(16:14):
hurt in the same Way, and withthat pause, I had opened up to
all of these emotions that Ihadn't been dealing with. So on
top of the physical pain, thenall of the accumulated
exhaustion and frustration andconfusion and sadness and there
(16:39):
were, there were also a lot ofdifficult interpersonal and
emotional dynamics going on withon the farm and my housing
situation and all of that camecrashing down on me all at the
same
K Castrataro (16:52):
time. Yeah, let's talk about that for a minute,
because you had said earlierthat you didn't realize how much
stress had been a contributingfactor to your injuries. Earlier
today, you said that. And youknow, I think that this is a
really important point to bringout for people as well, because
(17:13):
we seem to try to disconnect ouremotional and mental health from
our physical health, and I meanscientifically, we know that we
really can't do that, because weare such carefully crafted
organisms that everything reallydoes work together. Like when
your body is hurting, it affectsyour mental health, which then
(17:36):
affects your relationships, andvice versa, if your
relationships are tricky, thenthat affects your mental health,
which then causes you to tensemuscles more often. It, like,
does all this stuff that thencreates physical issues as well,
and then you've got, like, thewhole internal system where your
body inside can carry stress.You know, some people get
(17:59):
digestive issues or chronicmigraines, or, you know, all of
this stuff that is allconnected. And so we talk about
the physical health of farmers,and I don't think we often
connect it enough with theiremotional health and their
mental health. And when you werejust saying your body pulled the
(18:22):
plug, your body said emergencybrake, stop. Too much that also
then opened up the whole otherside of you that you'd been able
to close away. And I'm I'minterpreting for you, so if I'm
misinterpreting what yourexperience was. Please, please
(18:43):
correct me. But it sounds to melike your body when your body
finally quit, then it was likethe mind and the heart kicked
into gear, and you could hear itbecause you weren't drowning it
out with all of the stuff. Andthat sounds like it was kind of
like a perfect storm for you.
Unknown (19:06):
It was, yeah, it was suddenly in the stillness I
could no longer drown it outwith the doing, the busyness of
the farm and the urgency.There's always something urgent,
and even if that urgency is thenmy own exhaustion at the end of
the day, there's no time tofeel. Or for me, there was no
(19:30):
time to feel in that schedule,
K Castrataro (19:34):
and you didn't have to. I think, like, for some
of us, some of us can't, like,we say, Oh, I don't have time to
feel. But other people are like,Oh, I don't have time to feel
because feeling is scary. Like,it's really scary. Those
emotions, you were talking aboutsadness and disappointment and
all of that, like those. Thoseare hard emotions. Those aren't
(19:56):
as easy as like, for me, angeris a super easy emotion. Like. I
can get angry, but anger doesn'tlike scare me when I'm sad,
Unknown (20:07):
I'm like, I don't like to be sad, because there's
K Castrataro (20:10):
something so much more intimate about that. So So
talk to me about how you workedthrough all of that. What was
your What was your approach?
Unknown (20:21):
It took a long time to even figure out what the what
kind of approach would work. Iwent through everything you can
think of. I, as I said, I wasalready doing sort of physical
therapy and massage therapy. Ithen tried acupuncture while I
(20:43):
was still working on the farm,and that sort of help, but not
in any kind of lasting way. Ithen brought in sort of the
bigger medical guns, and I didcortisone injections.
K Castrataro (21:01):
Oh, I just had one of those in my knee the other
day. There's so much fun. Didyour cortisone work for you? Or
some people have really goodresults, and some people not so
much. Nope. Didn't work for me.Didn't do a thing for you.
Unknown (21:15):
It made me sort of helped a little bit temporarily,
but it didn't really, didn'treally help. And then I went
even I went further off the thewoo end, and I was doing
homeopathy and energy healing,and I was also playing with more
(21:39):
anti inflammatory diets. Andliterally, I tried anything you
could think of, yep, and andnothing was working. And
finally, I actually veryserendipitously, ended up
(22:00):
listening to a podcast interviewwith a homesteader who had who
described exactly the same issuewith his wrists and and how he
went about dealing with it, andHis whole journey to
understanding the more psycho,emotional, energetic issues that
(22:24):
were underlying this physicalissue exactly what you were just
describing, yeah. And so whatworked for him was a combination
of somatic meditation, someditation really bringing you
into the body. And Alexandertechnique, which is a kind of
(22:47):
mindful movement training thatworks on bringing awareness to
patterns. And they can bepatterns of movement, how we
have these ingrained habits thataren't necessarily efficient,
but we just get used to, youknow, you always do it with your
right hand, so you continuedoing it with your right hand,
and that creates, like, youknow, an imbalance in your body.
(23:09):
Or, that's a really simpleexample. But, or your family
K Castrataro (23:13):
has a like, my family has, like the dame
posture. We call it because my,maiden name is dame, and my my
dad's cousin is a Rolfer, and Iwent to go see him to be rolfed,
which is also amazing. But whenhe first looked at me, he was
like, Oh, look at that Daneposture. And I was like, what?
(23:36):
But because you grow up withpeople who stand a certain way,
you just adopt that behaviorlike you didn't think about it.
It's not something that youconsciously say, Oh, I'm going
to stand this way. But whathappens is that if all the
people around you have thispattern of unhealthy alignment,
then you pick up this pattern ofunhealthy alignment, and then it
(23:59):
creates tension and pressure,and then you end up with bulging
discs and all kinds of stuff,not because you like hurt
yourself, but because you werenever you know you are modeling
yourself after the wrong patternto begin. So exactly what you're
talking about, yeah, exactlyAmazing, isn't
Unknown (24:20):
it? Yeah, it's incredible. My my Alexander
teacher. So spoiler alert, Ithen went and did Alexander
technique, and that is the thingthat that really unlocked some
of what was going on for me. Buthe talks about how we are
perfectly aligned for the mostpart, until the age of, I think
(24:44):
it's like somewhere betweenaround three, four or five. And
then even that early, you canstart to see kids mimicking the
movement patterns of the adultsaround them.
K Castrataro (24:54):
Yeah. And they start, I mean, isn't that when
we start really, like. Uh,enforcing behavior rules on our
kids too. You know, I thinkabout all that, that all the
time, that my son was almost twowhen I had my daughter, and up
until then, it was like, Ididn't have to discipline. I
(25:15):
didn't really have to correct.Like, I mean, you would say
things like, Oh say, Please,and, you know, like modeling the
behavior that you wanted, but atthat age, like they're so just
themselves, that there isn'toften a whole lot of stuff that
you're like, wow, that's reallybad behavior. No, I don't want
to see that. And then they getolder, and then all of a sudden
we start imposing theseexpectations upon them, and how
(25:38):
much of that also influences theway that they stand and are seen
in the world. You know, if, ifyou're in a family where it's,
you know, children are to beseen and not heard, then they
they come out and they're makingnoises, and you're like, stop,
stop. That. You gotta be quiet.You gotta sit down and behave.
And then that that actuallychanges the way that they show
(26:02):
up, even physically in theworld. So fascinating. Three and
four. Wow. Three and four. Sohow did, how did you get, how
did you undo 20 some years of ofthese patterns that were
becoming unhealthy for you
Unknown (26:21):
with awareness of the micro tension that I was holding
in my body, in my wrists and allover my body, not just in my
wrists, but we started with Mywrists, so learning how to feel
that tension and release it withhonestly, kind of like little
(26:46):
mind tricks. It's reallyincredible. You know, it almost
sounds like a cliche, the powerof the mind, or like mind over
body. It's not real, but it'slike not. It's not in a coercive
way. It's more just the two areso interconnected, and we can
(27:09):
use the one that is a little biteasier for most of us, modern
people to access our minds, toget into the body. So my teacher
has all these little littletricks about or little little
prompts or directions about howto relax into better alignment.
(27:34):
And so some of it was doingthat. Some of it was learning
also about proper body mechanicsand physiology and how the Our
hands are supposed to work, thatour thumb and fingers are meant
to work in opposition to eachother, which requires that they
be curved so they can meet. AndI realized that often when I was
(27:59):
doing things like holding thehandle of a giant machete, my
thumb would be straight andpressing, pressing, yep, not in
a curved way, sure, which is notoptimally using the thumb and
putting a lot of strain on thetendon that goes down into the
(28:24):
wrist.
K Castrataro (28:25):
I'm like, Oh, I can I my brain. My brain is
telling me how that would feelbecause, because this obviously,
I mean, I'm not injured, so thisdoes not hurt, but when I think
about doing it like this, I can,I can feel the strain that would
be developing over time there.So that is, that is fascinating.
(28:45):
And so when you're talking aboutthose micro tensions, that makes
me think a lot about when I talkto farmers about using, like,
very small moments to do selfcare, like those micro and so I
kind of look at it as doing amicro self care treatment, you
know, like five minutes or lesswhere you're you're just deep
(29:09):
breathing for, you know, 30seconds or something like that,
where you can just thatmindfulness, you know, smelling
the coffee, feeling your Body,like doing all of that stuff
that seems so unimportant andineffective, and yet, when
you're talking about these microtensions and listening to those
(29:32):
and releasing them, it'sactually super, super powerful.
Unknown (29:35):
No, absolutely, yeah, and it has learning how to do
this throughout my whole bodyhas totally changed my
relationship to my body and myawareness of what is going on in
my body at any given time when Iremember to tap in and check it
(29:55):
out, which in and of itself ispart of the practice of
remember. Trying to rememberwhat's that call it?
K Castrataro (30:02):
Well, isn't this why we have coaches, therapists,
that kind of thing? Because wetell ourselves we've learned the
skill, so now we're all set,because we've learned it, right?
You understand you've gothypertensions in your body. You
listen to them and you relaxthem, right? That's all you have
to do. It's, it's kind of likegoing back to the cortisone shot
(30:23):
this week. You know? It's likewhen I went back and he says,
relax your knee. And I'mwatching the needle come at my
knee, and I'm thinking, Okay,I'm relaxing my knee, well, I'm
not relaxing my knee. And he'sand I'm like, oh, that really
hurts. And he's like, you gottarelax your knee. And then I was
like, Oh, right. And because Ido a lot of deep breathing. I
was like, and I could, like, Ifelt my muscles relax because
(30:46):
I've taught myself how to relaxwith the breath. And then the
needle went in, and it stoppedhurting. And I was like, Oh
yeah, see, because you didn'twant me to be tense, but my my
body was tense anyway, like, Iwasn't telling it to be tense.
It was just scared, and it waslike, Oh, I'm gonna be tense.
(31:06):
And yet, like you said, if we'vegot this practice, we can go in
there, and even if we forget touse it right away, as soon as we
think about it, we can activatethat again. And what a powerful
thing that is. But we need thepractice. We need somebody. We
need the doctor with any needlesitting there saying, relax your
knee and US practicing it whenwe don't have a needle in our
Unknown (31:34):
knee. So how long did it
K Castrataro (31:35):
take you before you felt like you were able to
observe your own micro tensionsand like, how did, how did that
process work for you? Becauseyou seem like a pretty intuitive
person to begin with. Liz, likeyou, you know the different
things that you've talked about,you're definitely into learning
about yourself and how you fitinto the world. And so that's,
(31:58):
you know, already, a skill thatyou have just by your nature. So
how long did it take somebodywith your skills to get familiar
with their micro tensions and tomanage that?
Unknown (32:10):
A frustratingly long time. No, but on the one hand,
it was actually really quickonce I started working with this
guy, just in the first sessionor two, I had some relief. It
was, but it was at first, it wasa little bit like the
acupuncture effect, where Iwould go and I would feel so
(32:31):
relaxed and great, and then Iwould reenter my life, and five
minutes later, we're back tosquare one, right? So it was the
process, just as you were justsaying of learning how to
integrate that and do itrepeatedly for myself throughout
the course of my day. And Ithink it took a little over a
(32:54):
year from when I left the farmto when I really felt like, Oh
no, it was about a year and ahalf after about six months of
working with this teacher, Ifelt like something was
shifting. I think that timelinesright, don't quote me well.
K Castrataro (33:18):
I mean, I think, I think what's important to what I
want to emphasize for people isthat this is not something that
you go and you get healthy in aweek, like when you have a
lifetime of thought patterns andphysical patterns and this kind
of stuff that causes stress andcauses tension and causes pain
(33:40):
and injury to our whole system.It is unreasonable to expect
that one or two sessions with atherapist, one or two sessions
with an acupuncturist, one ortwo sessions with an Alexander
specialist, is going to, like,take care of everything, because
it it's the whole it didn't takeyou a minute to get to this
(34:01):
place. It's going to take youmore than a minute to get away
from this place. And for somepeople, I think they hear that
and that can be off putting andmaybe disappointing, like you
were, you were saying afrustratingly long time. And a
year and a half sounds like along time in some respects, and
(34:23):
yet, think about it in the spanof a lifetime, like I mean, my
family routinely lives intotheir late 80s and 90s. So if
you take a year and a half outof 90 years of life, what is
that? That's nothing. That'sabsolutely nothing. So what am I
going to give up on investingthat year and a half and waste
(34:44):
the other 7889 like however manyyears I'm going to have in pain
and misery like you know, that'skind of where my mindset is to
help farmers to realize that theinvestment that you make in the.
Short term, can change yourlife, like totally transform
your life?
Unknown (35:06):
Yes, it can, and it did for me. I mean, this, this was
an issue in my life for, Ithink, about five to seven
years, and then suddenly itwasn't anymore. And it hasn't
been for at least three, threeyears now, two, two and a half,
(35:33):
something like that. And everynow and then I will, I'll do
something, and I will get atwinge. I'll over, I'll over
work my wrists. I'll hold thingsin the inefficient way for too
long, and with that, because I'mbusy and I don't think about it,
I don't remember to remember,but it's this great reminder
(35:57):
then to stop what I'm doing,relax my hands go through some
of those sort of mental, mentaltricks to release the tension
and and it's also just areminder to check in with what's
going on for me emotionally,because that's something we have
(36:19):
we've touched on a little bit,but is a really important part
of this as well, that it's notjust I'm holding it wrong, and
so my body's tight, and so Ineed to learn how to hold
something correctly. There'sthis whole other layer
underneath it, of the emotionsthat have been stuffed down.
(36:42):
It's almost like I imagine them,like I'm stuffing them down into
my body. And they're, it gets sofilled up that they have nowhere
to go except to come out throughpain in some part of my body,
like they're, they're leakingout the cracks, well,
K Castrataro (36:58):
inflammation, like, you know, as I'm sitting
here associating with my knee,of course, and just connecting
with that whole idea that itdoes, it does almost leak into
into your joints. And this iswhy we have these inflammatory
illnesses, that the number onething they tell you to manage
(37:18):
for inflammation. A lot of theseinflammatory is your lifestyle
and your stress levels, and so,you know, obviously, to eat
well, and, you know, do thatkind of thing, but, but the
emotional care is really such animportant point. And I think
what you're saying about thatstuffing it down and then it
leaking into the rest of yourbody where it doesn't belong,
(37:38):
you know, there's, there's apurification that our bodies are
supposed to do. And if we'reputting in too much junk, the
toxins can't get out fastenough, and then they kind of
poison us,
Unknown (37:51):
absolutely. Yeah, so I
K Castrataro (37:54):
think, I think that's so, so powerful, what
you're saying. So now you wentout of farming for quite a
while, and then you're, youknow, kind of doing a Who am I
this time? What am I going to dowith my life in this next phase,
(38:15):
you know, of health and newgoals and all of that, which,
again, I just love the fact thatyou're taking that time to
figure out, like, Okay, where doI need to go now? Like, where
are my my values and mypriorities, and what does that
look like? Because what it lookslike for one person isn't going
to look the same for somebodyelse and and we need to take
(38:38):
that time so that we can bealigned with ourselves, and that
will reduce our stress, and thatwill also take care of our
bodies and, you know, benefitsall over the place. So, so tell
me, I know you went back intofarming for a while, and you're
still, you're still doing somefreelancing. So tell us where
you're at now.
Unknown (38:58):
Yeah, I just can't seem to leave this farm. I, yeah, I
worked a season. I took twoyears off. But even during that
time I was still I wasfreelance, fermenting, even as I
was trying to deal with this,this wrist issue, and then I
ended up moving back here fulltime and working for a different
(39:19):
farm in the area that also had acatering company attached to it
that I was cooking for. And thenI got roped back into working on
this same farm where I startedout and and then I left
officially in March of thisyear, but I'm still helping out,
(39:39):
so it is hard. It's hard toleave.
K Castrataro (39:45):
It sounds like there's a part of you that might
want something new anddifferent, and yet there's a
part of you that doesn't want toleave this, especially this
particular farm, because it hasbeen a very formational part. Of
your life like, I think it'sit's been a place that you've
learned a lot and in in good andchallenging ways. And so that
(40:08):
makes sense. So in some ways,it's almost like the the farm
kid, who's like, trying to getoff the farm, but can't really
get the farm out of the kid, andis trying to figure out where
that all works so, so why don'tyou just give us a little bit
about your thought process rightnow? Like, how do you feel about
just freelancing? Because, youknow, another one of the things
(40:31):
that I keep telling people is weneed to redefine this whole word
farming and farmer like we don'thave to have a full time farm
career to be a farmer like, soyou know what you're doing right
now is almost like an itinerantfarmer. And, yeah, it's farming.
I mean, you're you'reslaughtering chickens, you're
(40:53):
fermenting stuff like, you'remaking value added products. So,
like, this is all a part of ofthe farm world.
Unknown (41:01):
So how I guess, yeah, how is it in
K Castrataro (41:05):
your mind? Are you feeling like a farmer? Are you
feeling like a What are youfeeling like and where do you
think you want to head?
Unknown (41:14):
It's a very confusing, messy process. It is somewhat of
an emotional roller coaster,even just every time I go to I
agree to do one of these, thesespecial projects on the farm, I
feel excited about it when Iagree to do it, and then in the
days leading up to it, I startto dread it, because I have to
(41:37):
move my wake up time earlier,and I know it's going to be A
long day, and it's physicallyhard, and I'm now out of the
habit of doing that kind ofphysical labor. And then I wake
up at, you know, 430 or five,and I get to watch the sunrise,
and it's really beautiful andpeaceful, and I get to go work
(41:59):
with these dear friends of minenow, these people who I've been
working with. You know, there'sa lot of turnover, but in some
cases, for the past five, fiveand a half years, and it's a
really just fun, supportiveenvironment, the work feels
(42:20):
deeply meaningful to me, and itis so tangible and immediate, I
can see instantly the impact ofwhat I have done. We start the
day with 400 pounds of heads ofcabbage, and at the end of the
day there's like two barrels ofcabbage ready to ferment, and I
(42:46):
know that that is going to feeda couple 100 people for six
months, and we'll do a couplerounds of it, and we'll have a
year's worth of kimchi orsauerkraut. And that is so
gratifying. And it feels good togo home at the end of the day
exhausted, physically because II did it. I spent my energy for
(43:10):
the day, and I made something.And also, as the day wears on,
so usually in the morning, thenI start to question, like, oh,
maybe I should come back to thefarm. What am I doing with my
life? Like, why am I not
here? Why would I do anythingbut this? Yeah, yeah, energy
addiction.
(43:31):
After lunch, energy starts totank, and I'm like, What am I
doing here? Why? Why would Iwant to be here?
K Castrataro (43:45):
What kind of lunatic is making kimchi?
Unknown (43:50):
And so it's just it's like this constant, constant up
and down between these twoextremes of loving it and
feeling so fulfilled and engagedin the work, and also resenting
it and feeling just exhaustedand cranky.
K Castrataro (44:11):
And I gotta say, I think that is a lot of the
farming experience. Because, youknow, farming is a hard, hard
business, and it doesn't matterif you're farming full time,
part time, like anything thatyou're doing to create food, to
create beauty, like it's a lotof work. And so it does have
(44:33):
that best of times, worst oftimes, you know, where it's so
beautiful and so gratifying, andthere is something so delicious
about just being physicallyexhausted at the end of the day
where you're like, I really didlay it all out on the line, and
I worked hard and I sweated andI just, I feel like I
accomplished something. And thenat the other hand, it's like, oh
(44:56):
my gosh, I would love to haveenergy to like, I.
Unknown (45:00):
Watch a TV show or read a book or eat supper,
K Castrataro (45:06):
as opposed to, no, I'm too tired. I'm just going to
bed. So, you know, I'm sittinghere and oh my gosh, like Liz,
we could go for hours here, butI I'm looking at my clock and
I'm saying I don't have a lot oftime left with you, so I'm going
to kind of shift into our end ofthe end of the podcast
(45:30):
questions. So the one question Iask every podcast guest before
they leave is, if you had onepiece of advice that you thought
every farmer should have whatwould that be
Unknown (45:43):
to remember that you matter, and that no matter how
important what you're doing mayseem and it really may Be
extremely important and havehuge financial ramifications,
there is always space forvaluing yourself and that no
(46:10):
matter what those financialramifications may be, they're
not more important than yourwell being, because if you
aren't able if, if somethinghappens, and you're not able to
do it again tomorrow or nextyear, then it's not really, it's
(46:33):
not really worth it in thismoment. And I mean, okay, that's
a financial argument, but Ithink there's a more important
argument about like, what is ourvalue in this world at all, and
how do we value ourselves ashumans and Our employees as
(46:59):
humans and our employers ashumans, and that as at some
level, that has to come first,that is
K Castrataro (47:11):
so powerful, like so so much of what you said, I'm
just, you know, one of Myearlier podcast guests also, one
of her final statements was thatyou matter, and yet, this is,
this is a different take onthat, because that, Matt, that
you matter was kind of likeyou're making a difference in
(47:33):
the world. And this is the otherside of that. It's the fact that
you are making a difference inthe world. So take care of
yourself, because taking care ofyourself matters, and taking
care of the people around youmatters. And that we that whole
question about, why are we here,like that existential, the
(47:54):
existential, why are we evenalive in this place at this
time? I wish we had brought thisup like 45 minutes ago, but I
think that those are such suchpowerful thoughts. And so any
final thoughts before I before Isend everybody off on their way?
Unknown (48:18):
Liz, there's so much more we could talk about Kristen
K Castrataro (48:25):
like, Man, I could do a whole series just with Liz,
but But for today, we're gonnawe're gonna call it a day, and
I'm going to thank you, Liz, forbeing here and for sharing all
of your wisdom with ourlisteners and all of you out
there, I want to thank you forjoining us for food, flowers and
(48:46):
fun, and we will see you nexttime. Bye,
Unknown (48:50):
thank you so much. Kay
farmworks, calling our show isall fun. Goodbye, farewell. So
long. Adieu, see you next week,same time, same place for food,
flowers and fun. Go in peace.Visit us at
(49:11):
www.penlightfarmers.com
What if a small investment in your mental health
(00:03):
could keep your body farming forthe next 5, 10, or even 20
years? Listen in as freelancefarmer Liz Resnick shares her
experiences with farm injury andmental health in this episode of
Food, Flowers and Fun (00:17):
Visits with farm women from around the
world, we are sponsored, asalways, by Pen Light for
Farmers, helping farmers achievemore time, energy and abundance,
Unknown (00:38):
if you're the woman who does it all? Farm work,
housework, book work, homework,getting up at the break of dawn.
This is the podcast for you. Getaway from the cares of the day.
Restock, rootstock, feedstock,seed, stock. Chat with women
(01:00):
around the world to raise foodflowers and fun with your host,
K Castrataro, that's me.
K Castrataro (01:09):
So welcome back to this episode of Food, Flowers
and Fun. And today we have LizResnick, who is Freelancer
extraordinaire. She doesfreelance tutoring, she does
freelance translation, and sheeven does freelance fermenting.
Yep, so let's get right in. Liz,welcome to our show today.
Unknown (01:34):
How are you? I'm great. Thank you so much for having me.
K Castrataro (01:37):
K, Oh, I'm so glad to have you. And you know you
just from your introduction, youare a very diverse and multi
talented person. And so I'mwondering if you can start by
just giving us a little bit ofyour background, so that the
listeners out there who don'thaven't met you before are going
(01:58):
to get a sense for who you areand your eclectic and very multi
talented nature.
Unknown (02:06):
Well, it's a long story, but I'll try to keep it
relatively short. I started offmy career in international
development, and then moved intofood photography, immigration
law, publishing, some freelancewriting for a yoga and
meditation website. I was allover the place, bouncing around
(02:29):
trying to figure out what, whatresonated, what felt like it was
the thing my thing from the listyou gave. Obviously, I'm still
trying to figure out what thething My thing is, but for a
while, I settled on to farming.I was living in New York City
(02:54):
and feeling really ground downby the hustle and the commute
and the overstimulation and thenoise pollution and the all of
the craziness of New York City,right? And so I started reading
about food and farming andhealth, and I was having some
(03:18):
mysterious health issues of myown. So there was personal
curiosity driving this, like, Isthere something I should be
doing differently with how I'meating to help my body? And
somebody gave me a memoir whichreally spoke to me and launched
(03:38):
then this whole journey with thefarm that I've worked on, on and
off for the past five years.
K Castrataro (03:46):
So okay, so you've, you start off in New
York City, you end up going andkind of interning at first at
this farm. Am I right that youwere, you were kind of interning
there, but this farm does a lotof stuff, right? So you were,
you were doing livestock, youwere doing fruits and
(04:08):
vegetables. Tell us a little bitabout like, the work that you
did on the farm.
Unknown (04:11):
So we had to do an intro week as, like, a week long
working interview. So I did thatfirst, and then I was hired on
full time. And full time wasfull time. We were working like
six to six, five days a week,year round, and yeah. So I was
mostly in veg, but I also helpedin the on farm butcher shop. I
(04:37):
was doing value addedprocessing, which is where the
freelance fermentation has grownout of.
K Castrataro (04:46):
And you also said you were doing some chicken
slaughtering this year. So sowe've got freelance chicken
slaughtering too.
Unknown (04:52):
Yes, yes. This was where I first learned my my
chicken evisceration skills.And. Is my vegetable
fermentation skills, among manyother, many other bizarre and
eclectic skills one learns on afarm. So it's most mostly in bed
I say. I've done pretty mucheverything on the farm now over
(05:13):
the past five and a half years,except working with the live
animals. I only work with thedead animals or their
byproducts. I also did dairyprocessing for about a year. So,
so, so let me ask
K Castrataro (05:28):
you a little bit because part of the reason you
got into the farming to beginwith was that you were feeling
really burnt out and notconnected to yourself and and
the nature, nature, and, youknow, the environment, when you
were in New York City, and youkind of went through some
burnout farming as well. Youended up getting injured. And
(05:50):
talk to me a little bit aboutthat, because I think, you know,
this is something that a lot offarmers struggle with. You know,
we get into farming and we push,push, push, push, push. And we
have this stigma against, like,taking a break, acknowledging
that we're injured, any of thatkind of stuff. So talk to me
(06:13):
about what that was like foryou. You know, what led to your
injury? What kind of injury itwas. How did you come back from
that?
Unknown (06:22):
So I had a pre existing wrist issue, like a chronic
overuse, kind of tendonitis inmy right wrist. And I had had it
already when I started on thefarm for a couple years. I
chalked it up to poor deskergonomics, and especially when
(06:47):
I was working at a law firm, Ihad to do a lot of tiny mouse
movements back and forth fillingout forms. So I had tried a
bunch of things like physicaltherapy and massage therapy, and
I could get it kind of okay, andI really was just hoping it
(07:07):
would go away, and I had maybesome inkling it was related to
stress, but I wasn't. It wasn'tbad enough that I felt like I
can't do this farming thing, andI also felt like I had no other
option. I needed to get out ofthe city this the job on this
(07:28):
farm presented itself, and thatwas my out. And I felt like I
couldn't I couldn't think abouthow it might impact my risks,
even though it did already inthat first intro week, sort of
exacerbate the issue, and I wentto the city, and my massage
therapist kind of put me backtogether and and I was just so
(07:49):
overwhelmed. I was like, okay,great, here we go. So I made it
maybe from June to October, andI was, I was mostly fine with
the wrists, but I think therewas some, maybe some building
(08:10):
extra tension in my wrists. Andthen there was this one fateful
day when I was topping leakswith a dull machete for at least
a couple hours, whacking reallyhard, far harder than one should
have to and just taking all ofthat impact in my wrist, yeah.
(08:33):
And I kind of felt thisdefinitive, like tweak, yep. And
I kept going because, becausethe leaks
K Castrataro (08:45):
were still there and they needed to be topped
Yes.
Unknown (08:50):
And it was a combination of, I think, my own
lack of self confidence andability to assert myself and to
believe that my needs werevaluable in this context, and
also a more general farm culturearound working through it,
(09:15):
working, working These longhours, intent really intensely
maximizing speed and efficiency,and we were already a sizable
team, but there was still thisconstant feeling like there's
infinite work. We're nevergetting enough done, and that
(09:36):
everybody is crucial to makingthis happen, and especially in
that in October, it during FallHarvest, everything, it's the
culmination. Everything is soheightened. It feels so
important, like if we don't getthese leaks out of the ground
right now, we're not going tohave leaks.
K Castrataro (09:55):
No freeze. You're going to get a freeze. And then
then everything is. Done likeit, it's done exactly, yeah, so
I didn't stop to be I find thatto be a really interesting
thing, like time, that idea ofthere never being enough time,
that is something I am hearingover and over from farmers, that
(10:16):
they just feel I don't haveenough time. And that is such a
mindset shift that I like towork with farmers to try to
shift, to say, You know what,there is enough time. Whatever
you need to get done, you willhave the time to do it. It's
that kind of like the law ofrelativity, like we can stretch
(10:38):
time if we need to, and, youknow what, if it doesn't get
done, it doesn't get done today,tomorrow's another day. And I
know that man that rankles forfarmers and and we've got to be
careful with that. You know, wedon't want to just say, Oh,
well, I can go eat bonbons allday and, and it'll be fine. But
there has to be a sense in whichwe start to shift our narrative
(11:01):
so that we do recognize thatthere is enough time, because we
actually get more done in lesstime, if we take that approach,
as opposed to then you getinjured. So you got injured, and
how did that impact yourproductivity?
Unknown (11:19):
It wasn't good for it, although I really did my darnest
to pretend like nothing waswrong. I I just kind of ignored
it. I maybe would sort of do amassage or, like, rub some balm
on it, and it just it wasn'tgetting better. And then I got a
(11:43):
brace for it, and I just triedto do everything but wearing a
brace, and that sort of helped,but not really. And eventually
it got to the point where we,the farm uses WhatsApp loops for
communication. There's like ananimal team loop and a vegetable
(12:04):
team loop. And we had one calledone hand, and it was where my
managers could post tasks for meto do that I could do with one
hand. And so this went on from,it's the Gympie loop.
K Castrataro (12:21):
This one on Friday made you feel real good that you
were one hand.
Unknown (12:28):
How long did it go? I'm sorry, from October to January.
The beginning of January,basically, um, and I then in
January, one evening, I wasangry shoveling because of some
tense communication issuesaround the snow removal at the
(12:53):
house where I was living and whowas responsible for it, and it,
it was starting to feel Like asafety issue because the
driveway was getting icy, so I'mout there shoveling at night,
fuming, and I tweaked the otherwrist in exactly the same way,
(13:15):
and that was the critical Momentof what I call my body, pulling
the emergency brake. And it waslike, Okay, you now have no
hands. I couldn't do anything.It was, it was an issue I later
found out, with a tendon thatruns from the elbow all the way
(13:36):
around to through the thumb, soanything involving my thumbs or
like, or gripping was painful.
K Castrataro (13:43):
Oh, you mean, like, holding things, yeah,
squeezing things, manipulatingthings.
Unknown (13:53):
I literally, I couldn't wash my hair without pain.
Yeah? Because think about it.You
you scrunch Yeah, right. And so13
K Castrataro (14:04):
year old boy, in which case this is not a
problem, says the mother of a 13year old boy, oh, man, so. So
what do you do in thatsituation? Like, I know you are
not the only like, I am surethat we are talking to people
out here who have run into thissituation. And it might not have
(14:24):
been two hands, but I know formy mom, it was two knees. You
know, you know, we can veryeasily get ourselves into a
position where we are kind ofcrippled on the farm. And then
what do we do about that? So howdid, how did you finally manage
(14:44):
this? Because now you've nowyou're no hand.
Unknown (14:48):
Yeah, we couldn't have a no hand loop.
You could do with your mouth.
Start typing with my nose. So Ifinally. I had to address the
issue with my managers and theowner of the farm and I but I
was still not fullyacknowledging what was going on.
(15:11):
I said I needed to go home fortwo weeks, and it was January,
and while it is, this is a yearround farm, things were slower,
and to me, that felt reasonable.I was like, Okay, now I'm not
needed. I can take some space togo back to my mom's and and
(15:33):
rest. And I thought, after twoweeks, I'll be fine. I'll just
come back and keep doing what wewere doing. Ha, ha, ha. That is
not what happened. Two weeksbecame three weeks. Three weeks
became four weeks. And after Ihad been back home at my mom's
(15:53):
for a month, I finally, Ifinally realized that I was
dreading the idea of going backto the farm and that I also
couldn't because nothing hadchanged in my wrists, they still
(16:14):
hurt in the same Way, and withthat pause, I had opened up to
all of these emotions that Ihadn't been dealing with. So on
top of the physical pain, thenall of the accumulated
exhaustion and frustration andconfusion and sadness and there
(16:39):
were, there were also a lot ofdifficult interpersonal and
emotional dynamics going on withon the farm and my housing
situation and all of that camecrashing down on me all at the
same
K Castrataro (16:52):
time. Yeah, let's talk about that for a minute,
because you had said earlierthat you didn't realize how much
stress had been a contributingfactor to your injuries. Earlier
today, you said that. And youknow, I think that this is a
really important point to bringout for people as well, because
(17:13):
we seem to try to disconnect ouremotional and mental health from
our physical health, and I meanscientifically, we know that we
really can't do that, because weare such carefully crafted
organisms that everything reallydoes work together. Like when
your body is hurting, it affectsyour mental health, which then
(17:36):
affects your relationships, andvice versa, if your
relationships are tricky, thenthat affects your mental health,
which then causes you to tensemuscles more often. It, like,
does all this stuff that thencreates physical issues as well,
and then you've got, like, thewhole internal system where your
body inside can carry stress.You know, some people get
(17:59):
digestive issues or chronicmigraines, or, you know, all of
this stuff that is allconnected. And so we talk about
the physical health of farmers,and I don't think we often
connect it enough with theiremotional health and their
mental health. And when you werejust saying your body pulled the
(18:22):
plug, your body said emergencybrake, stop. Too much that also
then opened up the whole otherside of you that you'd been able
to close away. And I'm I'minterpreting for you, so if I'm
misinterpreting what yourexperience was. Please, please
(18:43):
correct me. But it sounds to melike your body when your body
finally quit, then it was likethe mind and the heart kicked
into gear, and you could hear itbecause you weren't drowning it
out with all of the stuff. Andthat sounds like it was kind of
like a perfect storm for you.
Unknown (19:06):
It was, yeah, it was suddenly in the stillness I
could no longer drown it outwith the doing, the busyness of
the farm and the urgency.There's always something urgent,
and even if that urgency is thenmy own exhaustion at the end of
the day, there's no time tofeel. Or for me, there was no
(19:30):
time to feel in that schedule,
K Castrataro (19:34):
and you didn't have to. I think, like, for some
of us, some of us can't, like,we say, Oh, I don't have time to
feel. But other people are like,Oh, I don't have time to feel
because feeling is scary. Like,it's really scary. Those
emotions, you were talking aboutsadness and disappointment and
all of that, like those. Thoseare hard emotions. Those aren't
(19:56):
as easy as like, for me, angeris a super easy emotion. Like. I
can get angry, but anger doesn'tlike scare me when I'm sad,
Unknown (20:07):
I'm like, I don't like to be sad, because there's
K Castrataro (20:10):
something so much more intimate about that. So So
talk to me about how you workedthrough all of that. What was
your What was your approach?
Unknown (20:21):
It took a long time to even figure out what the what
kind of approach would work. Iwent through everything you can
think of. I, as I said, I wasalready doing sort of physical
therapy and massage therapy. Ithen tried acupuncture while I
(20:43):
was still working on the farm,and that sort of help, but not
in any kind of lasting way. Ithen brought in sort of the
bigger medical guns, and I didcortisone injections.
K Castrataro (21:01):
Oh, I just had one of those in my knee the other
day. There's so much fun. Didyour cortisone work for you? Or
some people have really goodresults, and some people not so
much. Nope. Didn't work for me.Didn't do a thing for you.
Unknown (21:15):
It made me sort of helped a little bit temporarily,
but it didn't really, didn'treally help. And then I went
even I went further off the thewoo end, and I was doing
homeopathy and energy healing,and I was also playing with more
(21:39):
anti inflammatory diets. Andliterally, I tried anything you
could think of, yep, and andnothing was working. And
finally, I actually veryserendipitously, ended up
(22:00):
listening to a podcast interviewwith a homesteader who had who
described exactly the same issuewith his wrists and and how he
went about dealing with it, andHis whole journey to
understanding the more psycho,emotional, energetic issues that
(22:24):
were underlying this physicalissue exactly what you were just
describing, yeah. And so whatworked for him was a combination
of somatic meditation, someditation really bringing you
into the body. And Alexandertechnique, which is a kind of
(22:47):
mindful movement training thatworks on bringing awareness to
patterns. And they can bepatterns of movement, how we
have these ingrained habits thataren't necessarily efficient,
but we just get used to, youknow, you always do it with your
right hand, so you continuedoing it with your right hand,
and that creates, like, youknow, an imbalance in your body.
(23:09):
Or, that's a really simpleexample. But, or your family
K Castrataro (23:13):
has a like, my family has, like the dame
posture. We call it because my,maiden name is dame, and my my
dad's cousin is a Rolfer, and Iwent to go see him to be rolfed,
which is also amazing. But whenhe first looked at me, he was
like, Oh, look at that Daneposture. And I was like, what?
(23:36):
But because you grow up withpeople who stand a certain way,
you just adopt that behaviorlike you didn't think about it.
It's not something that youconsciously say, Oh, I'm going
to stand this way. But whathappens is that if all the
people around you have thispattern of unhealthy alignment,
then you pick up this pattern ofunhealthy alignment, and then it
(23:59):
creates tension and pressure,and then you end up with bulging
discs and all kinds of stuff,not because you like hurt
yourself, but because you werenever you know you are modeling
yourself after the wrong patternto begin. So exactly what you're
talking about, yeah, exactlyAmazing, isn't
Unknown (24:20):
it? Yeah, it's incredible. My my Alexander
teacher. So spoiler alert, Ithen went and did Alexander
technique, and that is the thingthat that really unlocked some
of what was going on for me. Buthe talks about how we are
perfectly aligned for the mostpart, until the age of, I think
(24:44):
it's like somewhere betweenaround three, four or five. And
then even that early, you canstart to see kids mimicking the
movement patterns of the adultsaround them.
K Castrataro (24:54):
Yeah. And they start, I mean, isn't that when
we start really, like. Uh,enforcing behavior rules on our
kids too. You know, I thinkabout all that, that all the
time, that my son was almost twowhen I had my daughter, and up
until then, it was like, Ididn't have to discipline. I
(25:15):
didn't really have to correct.Like, I mean, you would say
things like, Oh say, Please,and, you know, like modeling the
behavior that you wanted, but atthat age, like they're so just
themselves, that there isn'toften a whole lot of stuff that
you're like, wow, that's reallybad behavior. No, I don't want
to see that. And then they getolder, and then all of a sudden
we start imposing theseexpectations upon them, and how
(25:38):
much of that also influences theway that they stand and are seen
in the world. You know, if, ifyou're in a family where it's,
you know, children are to beseen and not heard, then they
they come out and they're makingnoises, and you're like, stop,
stop. That. You gotta be quiet.You gotta sit down and behave.
And then that that actuallychanges the way that they show
(26:02):
up, even physically in theworld. So fascinating. Three and
four. Wow. Three and four. Sohow did, how did you get, how
did you undo 20 some years of ofthese patterns that were
becoming unhealthy for you
Unknown (26:21):
with awareness of the micro tension that I was holding
in my body, in my wrists and allover my body, not just in my
wrists, but we started with Mywrists, so learning how to feel
that tension and release it withhonestly, kind of like little
(26:46):
mind tricks. It's reallyincredible. You know, it almost
sounds like a cliche, the powerof the mind, or like mind over
body. It's not real, but it'slike not. It's not in a coercive
way. It's more just the two areso interconnected, and we can
(27:09):
use the one that is a little biteasier for most of us, modern
people to access our minds, toget into the body. So my teacher
has all these little littletricks about or little little
prompts or directions about howto relax into better alignment.
(27:34):
And so some of it was doingthat. Some of it was learning
also about proper body mechanicsand physiology and how the Our
hands are supposed to work, thatour thumb and fingers are meant
to work in opposition to eachother, which requires that they
be curved so they can meet. AndI realized that often when I was
(27:59):
doing things like holding thehandle of a giant machete, my
thumb would be straight andpressing, pressing, yep, not in
a curved way, sure, which is notoptimally using the thumb and
putting a lot of strain on thetendon that goes down into the
(28:24):
wrist.
K Castrataro (28:25):
I'm like, Oh, I can I my brain. My brain is
telling me how that would feelbecause, because this obviously,
I mean, I'm not injured, so thisdoes not hurt, but when I think
about doing it like this, I can,I can feel the strain that would
be developing over time there.So that is, that is fascinating.
(28:45):
And so when you're talking aboutthose micro tensions, that makes
me think a lot about when I talkto farmers about using, like,
very small moments to do selfcare, like those micro and so I
kind of look at it as doing amicro self care treatment, you
know, like five minutes or lesswhere you're you're just deep
(29:09):
breathing for, you know, 30seconds or something like that,
where you can just thatmindfulness, you know, smelling
the coffee, feeling your Body,like doing all of that stuff
that seems so unimportant andineffective, and yet, when
you're talking about these microtensions and listening to those
(29:32):
and releasing them, it'sactually super, super powerful.
Unknown (29:35):
No, absolutely, yeah, and it has learning how to do
this throughout my whole bodyhas totally changed my
relationship to my body and myawareness of what is going on in
my body at any given time when Iremember to tap in and check it
(29:55):
out, which in and of itself ispart of the practice of
remember. Trying to rememberwhat's that call it?
K Castrataro (30:02):
Well, isn't this why we have coaches, therapists,
that kind of thing? Because wetell ourselves we've learned the
skill, so now we're all set,because we've learned it, right?
You understand you've gothypertensions in your body. You
listen to them and you relaxthem, right? That's all you have
to do. It's, it's kind of likegoing back to the cortisone shot
(30:23):
this week. You know? It's likewhen I went back and he says,
relax your knee. And I'mwatching the needle come at my
knee, and I'm thinking, Okay,I'm relaxing my knee, well, I'm
not relaxing my knee. And he'sand I'm like, oh, that really
hurts. And he's like, you gottarelax your knee. And then I was
like, Oh, right. And because Ido a lot of deep breathing. I
was like, and I could, like, Ifelt my muscles relax because
(30:46):
I've taught myself how to relaxwith the breath. And then the
needle went in, and it stoppedhurting. And I was like, Oh
yeah, see, because you didn'twant me to be tense, but my my
body was tense anyway, like, Iwasn't telling it to be tense.
It was just scared, and it waslike, Oh, I'm gonna be tense.
(31:06):
And yet, like you said, if we'vegot this practice, we can go in
there, and even if we forget touse it right away, as soon as we
think about it, we can activatethat again. And what a powerful
thing that is. But we need thepractice. We need somebody. We
need the doctor with any needlesitting there saying, relax your
knee and US practicing it whenwe don't have a needle in our
Unknown (31:34):
knee. So how long did it
K Castrataro (31:35):
take you before you felt like you were able to
observe your own micro tensionsand like, how did, how did that
process work for you? Becauseyou seem like a pretty intuitive
person to begin with. Liz, likeyou, you know the different
things that you've talked about,you're definitely into learning
about yourself and how you fitinto the world. And so that's,
(31:58):
you know, already, a skill thatyou have just by your nature. So
how long did it take somebodywith your skills to get familiar
with their micro tensions and tomanage that?
Unknown (32:10):
A frustratingly long time. No, but on the one hand,
it was actually really quickonce I started working with this
guy, just in the first sessionor two, I had some relief. It
was, but it was at first, it wasa little bit like the
acupuncture effect, where Iwould go and I would feel so
(32:31):
relaxed and great, and then Iwould reenter my life, and five
minutes later, we're back tosquare one, right? So it was the
process, just as you were justsaying of learning how to
integrate that and do itrepeatedly for myself throughout
the course of my day. And Ithink it took a little over a
(32:54):
year from when I left the farmto when I really felt like, Oh
no, it was about a year and ahalf after about six months of
working with this teacher, Ifelt like something was
shifting. I think that timelinesright, don't quote me well.
K Castrataro (33:18):
I mean, I think, I think what's important to what I
want to emphasize for people isthat this is not something that
you go and you get healthy in aweek, like when you have a
lifetime of thought patterns andphysical patterns and this kind
of stuff that causes stress andcauses tension and causes pain
(33:40):
and injury to our whole system.It is unreasonable to expect
that one or two sessions with atherapist, one or two sessions
with an acupuncturist, one ortwo sessions with an Alexander
specialist, is going to, like,take care of everything, because
it it's the whole it didn't takeyou a minute to get to this
(34:01):
place. It's going to take youmore than a minute to get away
from this place. And for somepeople, I think they hear that
and that can be off putting andmaybe disappointing, like you
were, you were saying afrustratingly long time. And a
year and a half sounds like along time in some respects, and
(34:23):
yet, think about it in the spanof a lifetime, like I mean, my
family routinely lives intotheir late 80s and 90s. So if
you take a year and a half outof 90 years of life, what is
that? That's nothing. That'sabsolutely nothing. So what am I
going to give up on investingthat year and a half and waste
(34:44):
the other 7889 like however manyyears I'm going to have in pain
and misery like you know, that'skind of where my mindset is to
help farmers to realize that theinvestment that you make in the.
Short term, can change yourlife, like totally transform
your life?
Unknown (35:06):
Yes, it can, and it did for me. I mean, this, this was
an issue in my life for, Ithink, about five to seven
years, and then suddenly itwasn't anymore. And it hasn't
been for at least three, threeyears now, two, two and a half,
(35:33):
something like that. And everynow and then I will, I'll do
something, and I will get atwinge. I'll over, I'll over
work my wrists. I'll hold thingsin the inefficient way for too
long, and with that, because I'mbusy and I don't think about it,
I don't remember to remember,but it's this great reminder
(35:57):
then to stop what I'm doing,relax my hands go through some
of those sort of mental, mentaltricks to release the tension
and and it's also just areminder to check in with what's
going on for me emotionally,because that's something we have
(36:19):
we've touched on a little bit,but is a really important part
of this as well, that it's notjust I'm holding it wrong, and
so my body's tight, and so Ineed to learn how to hold
something correctly. There'sthis whole other layer
underneath it, of the emotionsthat have been stuffed down.
(36:42):
It's almost like I imagine them,like I'm stuffing them down into
my body. And they're, it gets sofilled up that they have nowhere
to go except to come out throughpain in some part of my body,
like they're, they're leakingout the cracks, well,
K Castrataro (36:58):
inflammation, like, you know, as I'm sitting
here associating with my knee,of course, and just connecting
with that whole idea that itdoes, it does almost leak into
into your joints. And this iswhy we have these inflammatory
illnesses, that the number onething they tell you to manage
(37:18):
for inflammation. A lot of theseinflammatory is your lifestyle
and your stress levels, and so,you know, obviously, to eat
well, and, you know, do thatkind of thing, but, but the
emotional care is really such animportant point. And I think
what you're saying about thatstuffing it down and then it
leaking into the rest of yourbody where it doesn't belong,
(37:38):
you know, there's, there's apurification that our bodies are
supposed to do. And if we'reputting in too much junk, the
toxins can't get out fastenough, and then they kind of
poison us,
Unknown (37:51):
absolutely. Yeah, so I
K Castrataro (37:54):
think, I think that's so, so powerful, what
you're saying. So now you wentout of farming for quite a
while, and then you're, youknow, kind of doing a Who am I
this time? What am I going to dowith my life in this next phase,
(38:15):
you know, of health and newgoals and all of that, which,
again, I just love the fact thatyou're taking that time to
figure out, like, Okay, where doI need to go now? Like, where
are my my values and mypriorities, and what does that
look like? Because what it lookslike for one person isn't going
to look the same for somebodyelse and and we need to take
(38:38):
that time so that we can bealigned with ourselves, and that
will reduce our stress, and thatwill also take care of our
bodies and, you know, benefitsall over the place. So, so tell
me, I know you went back intofarming for a while, and you're
still, you're still doing somefreelancing. So tell us where
you're at now.
Unknown (38:58):
Yeah, I just can't seem to leave this farm. I, yeah, I
worked a season. I took twoyears off. But even during that
time I was still I wasfreelance, fermenting, even as I
was trying to deal with this,this wrist issue, and then I
ended up moving back here fulltime and working for a different
(39:19):
farm in the area that also had acatering company attached to it
that I was cooking for. And thenI got roped back into working on
this same farm where I startedout and and then I left
officially in March of thisyear, but I'm still helping out,
(39:39):
so it is hard. It's hard toleave.
K Castrataro (39:45):
It sounds like there's a part of you that might
want something new anddifferent, and yet there's a
part of you that doesn't want toleave this, especially this
particular farm, because it hasbeen a very formational part. Of
your life like, I think it'sit's been a place that you've
learned a lot and in in good andchallenging ways. And so that
(40:08):
makes sense. So in some ways,it's almost like the the farm
kid, who's like, trying to getoff the farm, but can't really
get the farm out of the kid, andis trying to figure out where
that all works so, so why don'tyou just give us a little bit
about your thought process rightnow? Like, how do you feel about
just freelancing? Because, youknow, another one of the things
(40:31):
that I keep telling people is weneed to redefine this whole word
farming and farmer like we don'thave to have a full time farm
career to be a farmer like, soyou know what you're doing right
now is almost like an itinerantfarmer. And, yeah, it's farming.
I mean, you're you'reslaughtering chickens, you're
(40:53):
fermenting stuff like, you'remaking value added products. So,
like, this is all a part of ofthe farm world.
Unknown (41:01):
So how I guess, yeah, how is it in
K Castrataro (41:05):
your mind? Are you feeling like a farmer? Are you
feeling like a What are youfeeling like and where do you
think you want to head?
Unknown (41:14):
It's a very confusing, messy process. It is somewhat of
an emotional roller coaster,even just every time I go to I
agree to do one of these, thesespecial projects on the farm, I
feel excited about it when Iagree to do it, and then in the
days leading up to it, I startto dread it, because I have to
(41:37):
move my wake up time earlier,and I know it's going to be A
long day, and it's physicallyhard, and I'm now out of the
habit of doing that kind ofphysical labor. And then I wake
up at, you know, 430 or five,and I get to watch the sunrise,
and it's really beautiful andpeaceful, and I get to go work
(41:59):
with these dear friends of minenow, these people who I've been
working with. You know, there'sa lot of turnover, but in some
cases, for the past five, fiveand a half years, and it's a
really just fun, supportiveenvironment, the work feels
(42:20):
deeply meaningful to me, and itis so tangible and immediate, I
can see instantly the impact ofwhat I have done. We start the
day with 400 pounds of heads ofcabbage, and at the end of the
day there's like two barrels ofcabbage ready to ferment, and I
(42:46):
know that that is going to feeda couple 100 people for six
months, and we'll do a couplerounds of it, and we'll have a
year's worth of kimchi orsauerkraut. And that is so
gratifying. And it feels good togo home at the end of the day
exhausted, physically because II did it. I spent my energy for
(43:10):
the day, and I made something.And also, as the day wears on,
so usually in the morning, thenI start to question, like, oh,
maybe I should come back to thefarm. What am I doing with my
life? Like, why am I not
here? Why would I do anythingbut this? Yeah, yeah, energy
addiction.
(43:31):
After lunch, energy starts totank, and I'm like, What am I
doing here? Why? Why would Iwant to be here?
K Castrataro (43:45):
What kind of lunatic is making kimchi?
Unknown (43:50):
And so it's just it's like this constant, constant up
and down between these twoextremes of loving it and
feeling so fulfilled and engagedin the work, and also resenting
it and feeling just exhaustedand cranky.
K Castrataro (44:11):
And I gotta say, I think that is a lot of the
farming experience. Because, youknow, farming is a hard, hard
business, and it doesn't matterif you're farming full time,
part time, like anything thatyou're doing to create food, to
create beauty, like it's a lotof work. And so it does have
(44:33):
that best of times, worst oftimes, you know, where it's so
beautiful and so gratifying, andthere is something so delicious
about just being physicallyexhausted at the end of the day
where you're like, I really didlay it all out on the line, and
I worked hard and I sweated andI just, I feel like I
accomplished something. And thenat the other hand, it's like, oh
(44:56):
my gosh, I would love to haveenergy to like, I.
Unknown (45:00):
Watch a TV show or read a book or eat supper,
K Castrataro (45:06):
as opposed to, no, I'm too tired. I'm just going to
bed. So, you know, I'm sittinghere and oh my gosh, like Liz,
we could go for hours here, butI I'm looking at my clock and
I'm saying I don't have a lot oftime left with you, so I'm going
to kind of shift into our end ofthe end of the podcast
(45:30):
questions. So the one question Iask every podcast guest before
they leave is, if you had onepiece of advice that you thought
every farmer should have whatwould that be
Unknown (45:43):
to remember that you matter, and that no matter how
important what you're doing mayseem and it really may Be
extremely important and havehuge financial ramifications,
there is always space forvaluing yourself and that no
(46:10):
matter what those financialramifications may be, they're
not more important than yourwell being, because if you
aren't able if, if somethinghappens, and you're not able to
do it again tomorrow or nextyear, then it's not really, it's
(46:33):
not really worth it in thismoment. And I mean, okay, that's
a financial argument, but Ithink there's a more important
argument about like, what is ourvalue in this world at all, and
how do we value ourselves ashumans and Our employees as
(46:59):
humans and our employers ashumans, and that as at some
level, that has to come first,that is
K Castrataro (47:11):
so powerful, like so so much of what you said, I'm
just, you know, one of Myearlier podcast guests also, one
of her final statements was thatyou matter, and yet, this is,
this is a different take onthat, because that, Matt, that
you matter was kind of likeyou're making a difference in
(47:33):
the world. And this is the otherside of that. It's the fact that
you are making a difference inthe world. So take care of
yourself, because taking care ofyourself matters, and taking
care of the people around youmatters. And that we that whole
question about, why are we here,like that existential, the
(47:54):
existential, why are we evenalive in this place at this
time? I wish we had brought thisup like 45 minutes ago, but I
think that those are such suchpowerful thoughts. And so any
final thoughts before I before Isend everybody off on their way?
Unknown (48:18):
Liz, there's so much more we could talk about Kristen
K Castrataro (48:25):
like, Man, I could do a whole series just with Liz,
but But for today, we're gonnawe're gonna call it a day, and
I'm going to thank you, Liz, forbeing here and for sharing all
of your wisdom with ourlisteners and all of you out
there, I want to thank you forjoining us for food, flowers and
(48:46):
fun, and we will see you nexttime. Bye,
Unknown (48:50):
thank you so much. Kay
farmworks, calling our show isall fun. Goodbye, farewell. So
long. Adieu, see you next week,same time, same place for food,
flowers and fun. Go in peace.Visit us at
(49:11):
www.penlightfarmers.com
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