August 29, 2025 • 48 mins
In the fifth episode of Food, Flowers, & Fun, Franchesca Duval of Alchemist Farm talks about:
- Connecting psychology, midwifery, and farming
- Stepping forward in integrity
- Viewing challenges as opportunities for growth and creativity
- Rewriting our farm narratives
- Much, much more!
You will love this nurturing and introspective farmer!
Connect with Franchesca at:
- Website: https://www.alchemistfarm.com/
- Facebook and Instagram: @alchemistfarm
- Email: Support@alchemistfarm.com
Connect with K at:
- Website: https://www.penlightfarmers.com
- YouTube: @k.castrataro3466
- Facebook and Instagram: @penlightfarmers
- Podcast (audio): https://www.penlightfarmers.com/podcast
- Podcast (video): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIVBn53rrIsTwS4ag6hH4DHnxG_Lxqt7x
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What do psychology, midwiferyand chickens have in common?
Find out on this episode ofFood, Flowers, & Fun, when we
visit with Franchesca Duval ofAlchemist farm, we are
sponsored, as always, by PenLight for Farmers helping
overworked farm women clear awaythe barriers between them and
(00:22):
their vibrant farm lives, fullof satisfaction, purpose, health
and peace.
If you're the woman who does itall, farm work, housework, book
(00:42):
work, homework, getting up atthe break of dawn. This is the
podcast for you.
How do
you get away from the cares ofthe day? Restock, rootstock,
feedstock, seed, stock. Chatwith women around the world to
raise food, flowers and fun withyour host, K Castrataro, that's me.
(01:09):
So welcome to today's episode ofFood flowers and fun. I am your
host, kay Castrataro, and todayI am just so excited to have
Francesca Duvall from thealchemist farm with us. She is a
chicken midwife, basically, andjust the coolest woman. So I'm
not gonna say a whole lot moreabout your Francesca, because
(01:31):
I'm gonna let you tell yourstory. So tell us. Tell us how
you became a chicken midwife.
I love that. That's how youintroduce me as a chicken
midwife. On the tail of all ofmy emails, the little subheader
is the head chicken Wrangler.That's how I normally refer to
myself, because that's what Iseem to do around here, mostly,
is wrangle chickens, but I alsodo hatch a lot of baby chicks,
(01:54):
and so I do love being a chickenmidwife. I'm the owner and
founder of Alchemist farm, whichis a humane chicken hatchery in
Northern California, and weoffer many different breeds of
beautiful chickens that lay fun,colored eggs, that have all
different personalities andbeautiful feather types for
different families to enjoy. Wemostly ship our baby chicks to
(02:16):
backyard
families who want to have alittle group of hens. And we
believe that there is a chickenbreed for everybody, just like
there's a breed of cat or dog.And so we love getting to
educate on the world of chickensand share what they are with the
world, because they have so muchto offer us. They ask for so
little, and they give us so muchin return. And I know from
(02:39):
firsthand experience over thislast decade of offering baby
chicks to the world that theycan have such a profound
positive impact in people'slives. So it's an honor to make
that my life work.
It wasn't originally going to beyour life work, though. So tell
us. Tell us how you how youtransitioned into this, because
this was definitely not, youknow career number one for you?
(03:02):
No, and I wonder if anybodyknows their career number one
from an early age, maybe it's
always an interesting twist andturn path that leads us to where
we're supposed to be. And I wasoriginally studying psychology,
graduated with a degree inPsych, and thought that I would
be some sort of a counselor,couples counselor, or something
like that. And when I waslooking at graduate schools, I
(03:24):
couldn't find the perfect fit.And so I was taking a gap year,
and really got into
homesteading. And met my husbandand thought, well, in this
homesteading journey, I think Iactually want to do midwifery. I
want to be able to help familiesin that way and help bring
babies into the world. And sostarted studying that and
attending births. And throughthat process, I realized, gosh,
(03:45):
I'm attending births. I'm eithergoing to be a midwife to many
people, a wife to many people,or I can be a wife and a mother
to my family. And I really hadto choose. I didn't feel like I
could sustainably do both.
And so I chose my family, andthat was a pretty hard choice,
because
professionally, that's what Ihad geared myself up for for so
(04:06):
many years. And so I felt, ah,I'm losing these years of my
life. Am I wasting my time? Kindof spinning my wheels here, and
we had purchased our land at thesame time that I was letting go
of the midwifery dream, andwe're starting to do a little
homesteading here. Back beforehomesteading was cool, you know,
(04:26):
it was
just wanting to be closer toland and have a more of a simple
life. And I went to order babychicks because I knew I wanted
to have chickens. I'd always hadchickens in my life for 35 plus
years, but when I went to orderthe baby chicks I found out
about the practices of mostlarge scale hatchery of
euthanizing male chicks whenthey're hatched, excess male
(04:48):
chicks that no one wanted. Andsomething about that one piece
really stuck in my heart andmade me pause, and it felt like,
almost like a lightning boltwas.
Going through me, of I cannotsupport this. I need to do
something different, but I don'tknow what. And it was this, this
god given moment that every nowand again, there's these
(05:11):
moments, and I don't know ifyou've experienced this, or if
the listener who's listening inright now has experienced this.
That's why we're here, because Ihad one of those moments,
beautiful.
Of like, pay attention.Something's different. Really
focus, because there's somethinghere for you.
And it was the chickens. And soI started to hatch for myself.
(05:34):
And one thing led to another,because I knew, Okay, I can't
support that. I gotta do itmyself. One thing led to
another, and now we have theworld's first humane hatchery,
where all of our birds are outon pasture, and I'm able to
educate a lot on how the worldcan still interact with chickens
in a way that treats them well,treats us well, treats the
planet well. We're zero waste.We run entirely on solar power.
(05:58):
We love educating people thatthese things are possible in
their homes too. It doesn't haveto be some scary thing where
they're giving anything up,really, they're gaining so much.
And so it felt like Godredirected my life and prepared
me for this process, becausepsychology is a perfect degree
for my job of being a farmer andrunning a farm crew. Shouldn't
(06:20):
every farmer have a backgroundin psychology, just to stay
sane, not to mention dealingwith customers and interpersonal
relationships, but but reallythat that psychology does fit
very well with agriculture,
it does and midwifery andcelebrating the birth process
and really honoring that lifethat's coming in. And so much of
(06:44):
what I thought was a waste oftime was actually all of these
beautiful stepping stones. Andso I learned to have mercy on
myself in those years, and evennow, when I find myself in
moments of like, What is evenhappening? Why is this
happening? This is not how Ienvision things. I have to step
back and be like, you know, I'mseeing it in the micro. I gotta
see it in the macro. God has aplan for me, and I just need to
(07:05):
keep stepping forward withintegrity. Yes, oh, I told so
much about what you said. Isjust like resonating with me
right now.
That idea of looking back andthinking I wasted this time, or
I wasted that opportunity, orhad I done this differently, I'd
be in a different place. And howthat's that's not it like where
(07:29):
you are now.
You have everything that youneed to be where you are now and
to do the thing that you arecalled to do now. And without
those wasted things, youwouldn't be able to do what you
do as well. And I know that Ifound that in my life where I'm
like, Oh yeah, I taught middleschool and high school English
(07:50):
for two years. Oh, that was awaste of a, you know, master's
degree in education, and yethere I am educating people all
the time about how to supportthemselves, working with
farmers, and using all of thoseskills in ways that I never
expected to but that's, youknow, that's the miracle of what
God does with us, is that hetakes us through this journey
(08:12):
that we could never have plannedfor ourselves, and he does make
something beautiful out of it.And I just, I love, I love that
whole vision that you have forthat and
and I also was really struck byyour your talk about the
sustainability and theinterconnectedness of your
(08:33):
experiences in the chickens andthe environment, and how that
really transcends livestock, Ithink, like it transcends the
specifics of chickens and movesinto where we all really can can
make a change for ourselves.What do you like? How do you how
do you see that expanding beyondjust the chicken world? Oh, it
(08:55):
can be anywhere, and I love
offering that call to action,not a challenge, but just that
inspiration for anybody, nomatter what sector or business
they're in, they can look aroundand see, how could i How could I
make this better for the planet,for the people around me? How
could I be in more integritywith everything that I'm doing,
(09:17):
every step along the way, andsuddenly
things will be revealed if we ifwe ask for those kinds of
answers to be given to us, theywill be given.
I had an amazing therapist whotalked about
speaking with God as if we werein a restaurant and needing to
be really clear for what we'reordering from the menu, and God
(09:40):
will just give us everyexperience that, like, you know,
it things, things will come ourway. But if we're like, you
know, God, I'd really like to beable to whatever serve in a
certain capacity. It's likeordering a cheeseburger versus
ordering, you know, yep, youknow, a grilled cheese or
something. Like, God needs toknow what, what kind of things
to put in.
Our path to be able to help usalong the ways that we could be
(10:02):
of greatest service. And so yougot to know what you're asking
for. You know, think in thiscosmic restaurant conversation
of of life, so sometimes findthat I order a cheeseburger and
he gives me a hot dog, and I'mlike, I didn't want a
cheeseburger. I wanted a hotdog. And yet, when I after,
after a little while, I realizedthat that hot dog was exactly
(10:24):
what I needed in order to get toto the the real end point, like
so many times. So it's that thatreally interesting tension
between having the vision andsaying, No, this is what I want,
and also being open to the factthat sometimes what we think we
want isn't really where we'regoing to end up, because there's
(10:46):
something greater beyond thatand that that initial goal might
change, kind of like I'm goingto be a counselor, I'm going to
be a midwife, Oh no, what I'mreally going to do is take care
of chickens and help show theworld that there is a different
way to raise chickens, and Ithink I find that really
(11:06):
inspiring, too. Because I thinkone of the things that kind of
hurts my heart when I look atfarming a lot of the times, is
that
people lose that sense ofpotential, like the idea that
things can be different, youknow? And it's not just in
farming. I mean,
look at our world right now,like so many things are being
(11:27):
done under the name of, well,you just can't have it a better
way than this. Like, this is thebest it can be. And I don't
subscribe to that. And I thinkfor farmers especially, it's
like, if we could let go of someof those preconceptions about
what farming looks like, what itmeans to be a good farmer,
(11:48):
what it means to be happy and,you know, successful as a
farmer. If we could let some ofthat go and open ourselves to a
new way of seeing and being, Ithink it could be really
revolutionary. I think we'd havea lot better impacts on farmers,
the environment and the peoplethat we serve. Yep, it all
(12:09):
starts with us and the momentthat each of us realizes that
we are in control of ouremotional state. We cannot
always be in control of thecircumstances around us, but we
can absolutely choose how we'regoing to react to them, and one
person's terrible day is anotherperson's best day, depending on
(12:31):
how they view it and how they'regoing to be interacting with the
world.
So things don't always have tobe one way. They don't always
have to be the same. For awhile, I did feel like things
just had to be one way. And Iwas really letting the external
happenings of the farm affect mymental health or physical
(12:53):
health, if there were differentstressors or things happening.
And I was really getting, like,push pulled in all these
different directions, and I hadto stop and be like, Okay, this
is my experience in life. I onlyget one life here. I can change
how I feel about all of this. Ican find things to be grateful
for. I can view every single oneof these challenges as an
invitation to get creative formy Creator and not feel like I'm
(13:16):
being punished or just likebeing drugged over the coals.
You know, like these are, theseare all things to make us
stronger, and sometimes also theanswer is just, I've found to to
pray for acceptance and then,and then the tests stop coming.
For a while, I pray forstrength, and I would be given
(13:37):
challenge after challenge thatwould strengthen me. I don't
pray for strength anymore. Ipray for perseverance. I pray
for wisdom.
Open
for patience.
I was 16 years old, and I askedGod, I remember, I remember
sitting in my bed and prayingthat God would make me patient
(13:58):
and that don't ever pray forpatience, because just like
being praying for strength, theonly way you get patient is by
having a whole lot of thingsthat make you feel impatient.
I tell my kids all the time, I'mlike, don't, don't pray that
prayer. They've actually toldother adults. They're like, You
never pray for patience.
(14:20):
So funny
and so true we don't evenrealize. And that's what I mean
about that restaurant analogy.Prayer is like putting in our
order, right? Like, be carefulwhat you pray for. Like, you
want to be more noble, I'll makeyou noble. Patience. Was that
hot dog? Actually, I do not wantthat. Thank you. Just kidding.
(14:41):
So tell me how you, how you camearound to that shift, like, what
are, what are some practicalsteps that you took to deal with
the external stressors. And youknow, if you're willing to share
some of those externalstressors, I'm sure that
everybody would really benefitfrom it. But I also know that
i.
Want to give people as much roomto share what they're
(15:03):
comfortable with and not sharewhat they're not comfortable
with, but if you could at leastgive us some strategies that
you've used, I think that'shelpful.
Really, getting to know myselfwell and be super honest with my
introspective work was veryhelpful, and what I realized is
I was very, very stubborn andwanted to keep doing things in a
(15:26):
way that I thought needed to bedone, like I just have to keep
working harder. If I just put inmore hours than it's going to
be, things will make sense. Andwhat was happening was I was
slowly wearing myself down,down, down, as opposed to taking
a step back and saying, Okay,how can I radically change all
of these systems that I'mpouring Okay? An example, all of
(15:49):
our chicken watering systemswere just the simple waters
that, like a backyard chickenkeeper would have that are just
like on the ground. It's water.I was going out there with my
baby on my back three times aday changing the waters. Oh, and
that was so many hours of laborand and I was getting tired, and
(16:09):
I was exhausted, and I wasn'table to do other things to
further our farm and ourbusiness. And then finally, I
was just gave up. I looked at myhusband, I said, I gotta do
something. I need help. I gottado something different. He said,
Well, let's take the time you'respending three hours a day doing
that. Let's slow down and let'sspend three hours designing
something different. And I wasso on this track of, like, I
(16:30):
just got to do it. I don't haveenough time. I don't have enough
time that I didn't give myselfthe space to slow down. But when
I slowed down and looked I'mlike, okay,
change that narrative, thereabsolutely is time for
everything. It's just how wespend it. Right now, I'm going
to spend that time on designingsomething that's going to save
me time. And when we're reallyin it and we're just feeling
(16:53):
overwhelmed by the chores,
they are owning us, the farm isowning us,
and there is a way to be able tobuild things smarter. It doesn't
mean that you're any less of afarmer, or that you're cheating
or anything. To be able to giveyourself some headspace. So you
can design more systems that arebetter and more effective. Now
(17:15):
we have an automatic wateringsystem that comes in on a timer
to these beautiful, big barrelswhere it's gravity fed water
that isn't a nipple system thatgoes to the chickens outside.
Their water is cleaner. It'sbetter for them. That's three
hours a day that I get back andthat's one of many examples
where I was really stubborn,feeling like this is how I've
done it. It just needs to keepgoing this way.
(17:38):
And it was, it was taxing me,taking me away from my family,
causing me all sorts of issues,yeah, and it's, it's tough, um,
you know, as I'm hearing yourstory, I'm reminded of when my
son was was a newborn, and I hadhorses, and so every morning,
you know, you gotta go out, yougotta do chores, you gotta feed
(17:59):
the animals, You gotta clean thestalls, and he was a baby, and
so I had a playpen set up in ourgreen room, and I would put him
in the playpen, and he wouldcry, and I would sing to him,
and I, like, was constantlytorn, but because I wanted to
have him on my back, but I hadhorses, And I just, I was like,
(18:21):
you can't be safe. Like, yeah, Itrust my horses with everybody
except my baby. Like, I'm notgonna because things happen. You
know, you know how it is. Thingshappen with livestock. And so,
like, we spent so much time outthere and looking back, it just,
it's like, Wow, I wonder ifthere had been a better way to
(18:43):
do that, you know, if, if I hadadjusted my schedule a little
bit, like, what if I had, like,done it earlier in the morning
when my my husband, at the time,was still here? Or, you know,
like so many things, that, asI'm hearing your story, I'm
like, Man, there were probably alot of creative solutions I
could have come up to to save myson and I a lot of stress, and
(19:07):
yet, like you said, you're inthe middle of it, and it's just
like, Well, you got to do thechores like you got to do it,
and you got to do it this time,this way, and and that is
something that I've definitelylearned is that we've gotta,
gotta stop putting I love whatyou say about the farm owning us
like we don't want our farms toown us. We want to have the farm
(19:33):
supporting what makes ussatisfied like what meets our
goals and values. That's whatthe farm should be doing, at
least this is, this is my, mymission in life is to get people
to say, when you're just lettingthe farm run you, you're going
to be destroyed in the process.Because, yeah, because the farm
is always going to ask forthings that you can't or don't
(19:55):
want to give that. So if youstart and say, No, this.
Is what's important. I'mimportant. My family's
important. These are thepriorities. And then what do I
have to do to change? Like yousaid, that system, the whole
farm system, if you need to do,I need to grow different crops.
Do I need to reduce? Do I needto expand? Like, all kinds of
(20:16):
things that you can do, and notlook at that as a judgment, like
if you go part time instead offull time, that doesn't make you
less of a farmer. It means thatyou're using your farm to
support your needs and notlosing yourself in it. Yep, love
that about about what you'resharing. Absolutely love that I
(20:38):
view the farm, and so somepeople also make the farm a
business. Some people the farmis like a hobby or a lifestyle,
a homesteading hobby. Regardlessif it's a business or
homesteading hobby,
it's it's like a marriage.
It's like any marriage. And Ifeel like there's going to be
(20:59):
some give and take. There aresome times when the farm needs
more from me and I can give it,and there's other times where I
have to be really careful andnot be codependent and give too
much of myself
and and not sleep and not beable to, particularly on the
business side of things, withwith customer service like there
(21:21):
has to be, because we're workingfrom home. And
most, most farmers are workingfrom home. It's, it's right out
their back door, their office isright there, everything's right
there. And there has to be somesort of healthy mental
separation of, okay, I'm on, I'mworking right now versus and now
I'm in family mode or selfpreservation mode.
(21:43):
And really, like,compartmentalizing those in our
head is really powerful. So wedon't have that codependency of,
if no one, if people don't knowwhat that term is, it's, it's
useful to look up and then justmost people use it in terms of,
like, romantic relationships.But it can also just put it on
your farm and see if you're amatch. Because if you're feeling
(22:04):
totally burnt out, you might be,and it'll change the way that
you look at your farming andyour business and how you're
running it.
Yeah, it's having that. It'shaving that separation where you
and the farm are not the samething, like, the success of the
farm is not necessarily thesuccess of you as a person, and
(22:27):
your success is not dependentupon, you know, some standard
that you're holding for thefarm. And I think that is super,
super important.
You know, I'm not currently fulltime farming anymore, but I work
from my house, and like, youdon't see this, but there are no
walls where I am, like,
(22:48):
this leads into my kitchen.Leaves leads into where we eat,
slash living room. I have asmall house, so it's like, there
is no physical delineation, andI find it really, really
difficult to turn off work modeand just go into mom mode.
And so I'm wondering how you'vedone that successfully, or more
(23:12):
like, successfully, I know weall struggle with it. So success
again. We use success on acontinuum. You're like, this is,
I subscribe to the WeightWatchers theme of progress, not
perfection. So, yeah,
small things find the smallthings that save you.
Yeah,
(23:33):
I think I would love to say thatI have gracefully walked that
tightrope the entire decade I'vebeen running the farm business.
I have not
when I was pregnant with mysecond child,
I went into labor on Tuesday.
Tuesday's my shipping day,
(23:55):
and at the time, I didn't havethe system set up. I didn't put
the time into training people
to identify the chicks, pull thechicks, package the chicks. So I
was packaging up the chicks inlabor, and then I told my
husband, okay, they gotta beshipped off. Today's a day. And
he's like, your customers willunderstand, like you're in
(24:18):
labor. They can wait a week forthe chicks. I'm like, no, they
cannot. Like, it must happentoday. And he, like, drove them
off the post office and left mein labor. We're gonna have a
home birth. And he said he feltit felt really weird to him.
He's like, Okay. I'm like,driving away, like, are you
gonna be okay? I'm like, I don'tthink this baby's gonna be born,
you know, in the next hour,we're okay here.
But an example of how
(24:41):
I haven't had that balance verygraceful, but that was one of
those moments where I was like,I need to have this balance,
because this is silly. Sosometimes it takes really
exaggerated experiences likethat
to highlight that. And I.
Having a separate space. Webuilt a very small little shed,
(25:05):
and that's my office, and it'soutside of the house, and so I
do all my work in the office,and then when I close that door,
I know, okay, that's all I cangive today. I do not answer
emails on my phone anymore. II'm really careful about when
and how I go on social media forfor sharing our information, and
(25:26):
really meter my time that way,because it's very easy. It was
easy for me to have it bleedinto my everyday life, and I had
to just ask myself, okay, whatis my priority right now? Yeah,
is it going to be my family? Isit going to be work? And really
getting brutally honest withmyself in that
(25:46):
so you have, you have your shed,and you can close, close the
doors, which, you know, I've gotthis office over my barn that I
keep saying I'm going to moveinto my office. I'm going to be
moving to my office. I have allthese excuses why I haven't
moved into the office yet, andI'm listening to you, and it's
almost like God is saying, willyou please move into the office,
because, because it's hard, youknow, my kids come home and I
(26:09):
want to shut off, and I don't,
I tell them, just just anotherminute. Just another minute. And
and then it becomes, you know, acouple hours. So what are some
of the other like, boundariesthat you put in for yourself to
to try to keep that distancewhere you in the farm are not
becoming codependent.
(26:30):
What you just said about thejust another minute, just
another minute to your children,is something that I've been
guilty of, that my father wasdefinitely guilty of. And I
remember being a child andthinking, this stinks.
I don't want to be just anotherminute, just another minute,
because it he was working hardfor our family, doing the best
(26:51):
he could and providing for us.At the same time, I always felt,
I was feeling the passage oftime, of like, I'm getting older
here eventually I'm not going tobe living in this house, like
just another minute scanner,just another year, like you're
missing out.
And so when I heard myselfsaying that phrase to my
(27:13):
children, it was anotherlightning bolt moment of like,
I can't do this. I'm not goingto let my children feel that
way. I had to get brutallyhonest with myself. Okay, why am
I doing this?
Why,
like, for you? Why haven't youmoved out in the office? Like,
(27:35):
really getting honest andlooking at that in ourselves?
That's the part that needs tochange. Because I could talk all
day long about like, oh, there'sall these practices. You could,
like, ring a bell at the end ofyour work day and be like, I'm
done. You could set like,parameters on your cell phone
and, like, put in a differentroom where you're like, this is
the boundary. I'm not gonna lookat my cell phone, but really
(27:56):
it's checking into our internallandscape. And for me, being
super honest of I am puttingwork before my family,
and I can't have it all at thesame time. I cannot have a
thriving family
and a thriving business
(28:20):
where I'm pulling myself 100%into both, like it needs to be
one or the other in this moment,
in this moment, that's I reallylove that and and, you know, I'm
because I believe in brutalhonesty with myself as with
others.
I know that one of, one of thechallenges for me with sticking
(28:41):
in work is that sometimes thework is a whole lot more
satisfying than the parenting,because and I love my children,
I put a lot of time into mykids. Totally love my children,
and yet, there is somethingabout having a job that you do,
and you create products, or youget, you get feedback. Like,
(29:05):
happy clients tend to give youpositive feedback. Whereas, how
many times do you cook a youknow, you spend all this time
you cook a meal, and peoplelike, I don't want to eat that.
And it's like, seriously,
you clean the house, and youturn around, and then all of a
sudden, like all the stuff thatyou just put away, it's all out
again. And so for me, you knowthat there really is a sense
(29:29):
where the the parenting slashhousework stuff, it never gives
me the same sense ofsatisfaction, because I never
feel like it's done, and I neverfeel like it's being appreciated
the same way that my outsidework does, and it also feeds a
really creative part of me,which is, you know, part of me,
(29:49):
and yet I love my children, andI want them to feel supported,
and I want them to have the bestof me. And so I think,
I don't think I'm alone in that.
I think a lot of farmers, it'seasier to focus on your
business. It's less emotional tofocus on your business. Like if
you've I've got a child who's alittle bit of a challenge, and
(30:11):
so the amount of energy that hasto go into that child is far
more than I would ever spend ona full 10 minutes with this is
often more energy than I willspend on a whole day of work.
So,
so that has been one of mychallenges. And I wonder if, if
(30:31):
you've had similar, if that wassimilar for you, or different
and and what helps you? Youknow, because we all want to be
there for our kids and ourspouses and and we want to
create a peaceful, restful homeenvironment, and sometimes it
just feels like a thanklesstask. So, so how do you help get
(30:53):
yourself past that?
It's a huge question, I know,
with a really multifacetedanswer, and for me, it was
really digging into my internallandscape and asking, Why am I
finding more validation Fromwork than I am
(31:19):
in motherhood?
Is this my story, or is this astory that's been given to me
that it is more valuable for meto be part of the workforce than
it is to be a mother?
What do I actually believeversus what has been shown to
(31:39):
me?
And it's true in farming. Like,I feel like, I mean, it's true
across the landscape for women,I think. But growing up in a
multi generational farm family,I definitely grew up feeling
that the work you did on thefarm was more valuable than the
work that you were doinganywhere else, like, you know
(32:02):
the it's always interesting,because the the girls would be
expected to
go out and work in the fields.Then we were supposed to stop
working in the fields, go in,make coffee break. The guys
would come in, we'd serve themcoffee break. The guys would go
back in the fields. We weresupposed to clean up from coffee
break, and then go out and workin the fields.
(32:23):
Yes. So it was like, well, thewomen aren't needed in the
field. Like, it's not asimportant for them. So just,
just go make us coffee break andand so it's really interesting
that you say that I'm like, Oh,I might have to do some
journaling on that, do somevisual journaling, and really,
really tap into that, because Icould be looked at both ways.
Yeah, it could be looked at aslike, oh well, the women aren't
(32:47):
needed in the fields. Like, ofcourse, we're the ones making
the coffee. Of course we're theones cleaning up. That's one
narrative. The other narrativeis
the men wanted to provide and,hey, we got to have a break. We
got to go inside. We werechatting. We were making the
coffee. We got to have adifferent experience. What a
(33:08):
beautiful thing. If it's ahealthy masculine that's holding
the space of like, Hey, we'rewanting to provide,
we could be doing the coffee.It's a, it's a, it's a lighter
task. You could be out therelike bucking straw, or, you
know, it could be the other wayaround. We want to provide for
(33:28):
you. So it it all depends on thefamily dynamic. And how healthy
was that masculine? How healthywas that feminine? Where are
those stories coming from thatyou that so many of us have of
like
that femininity and motherhoodand a woman's work isn't as
(33:48):
valuable.
Some people genuinely don't wantto be mothers. And that's a
that's a new concept. You
know, some people kind of lookdown on that
there, though, like, I think, Ithink culture is finally
realizing that not everybodyneeds to have children in order
(34:09):
to have value. I mean, therewas, you know, there were so
many reasons why
having children has been sohighly valued, you know, we
could go into we could talkHistory and Sociology and
religion and all kinds of thingswith that, but,
but I do think it's kind of ahealthier atmosphere for people
(34:30):
who are like, I'm just not cutout for that,
that stay at home mom thing, orhow to figure out how to keep
your
professional life and yourfamily life when, as you said,
you can't do it all in the samemoment. So while you can have it
(34:51):
all, you can't have it all atthe same time. So how you figure
out what that looks like and youcan't have it all in the same
way? So again, that goes backto.
I think, re envisioning whatfarming looks like, or re
envisioning what it looks liketo be a working woman, farm
wife, you know, all of thosethings.
(35:11):
That's what I mean about tappinginto the internal landscape, and
you touch on it with thejournaling. What a powerful tool
that's free. Just get a piece ofpaper and a pencil or a pen and
sit down. You know, it costs youa little bit of time, but it's
going to give you so muchrichness if you just allow your
subconscious to bubble up alittle bit and communicate with
you, with with the written word.
(35:34):
Because the answers aredifferent for everyone, yes, as
to what we get to be the authorsof our lives. What kind of a
life do we want to live? And ifwe can't have it all at the same
time, what is our timeline? Andthe only way to live life I have
found and not have life Live me,
(35:57):
is to be doing at the very leasta weekly check in with myself.
Of Do I like the direction I'mgoing?
Do I like the person I am rightnow? And if I don't course
correct,
if I let it go longer than aweek, I notice things aren't
(36:18):
going the direction I don't likeand the
extreme. Demands of running afarm, and particularly the type
of business I have of a hatcherywhere I am at the mercy of
the natural world,
the weather, the USPS, the moodsof my customers, the the social
(36:45):
media interactions, it's allfiltering through me.
And for me to be able to be inintegrity and not just crumble
into a pile of ashes, I have tobe really clear each week of
what do I need to adjust andwhat kind of scaffolding and
support do I need to bring onboard so I can keep doing this
(37:07):
work? Otherwise, I'm going toget myself into a really
uncomfortable physical situationwhere I'm just exhausted and
burnt out and I'm, yeah, I didthat in 2020, and I'm not going
to do that I did the same thingnine months. I had nine months
where I I could, I could hike 10miles a day and have plenty of
(37:27):
energy for that. I would comehome and could not physically
lift my laptop to work.Couldn't, couldn't do it like
because my brain just finallywas like, You're you are pushing
too, too hard. There was way toomuch toxic stress built up just
not, not well managed at all,and that, that is one of my
(37:48):
passions now, like,
I don't want other people to endup there, because it takes a
really long time to crawl backout of that hole and and the
challenges you face on the otherside of that hole for a little
while are a whole lot biggerthan the ones that got you in
there.
(38:10):
So once you get on stableground, you've got more energy
to deal with those. But wouldn'tit be better if we could
backtrack that and avoid gettingdown in that hole to begin with.
And I think your weekly checkins are so genius, because, you
know, then you can maybe go onestep down into the hole and say,
Whoa, wait a minute. And if youhave to back up that step and go
(38:33):
around the hole, you can dothat. Or you can build a bridge
like then you can make all yourplans. But when that, when
you're down in the bottom, thengetting out is a whole lot
harder. And so I think, I thinksometimes we think that if we've
got ourselves together at like,any one given point in time,
that's it, like we should beable to do it once and be on the
(38:56):
right track and not have toworry about it again. And like
you, I have found that it reallyis a constant process, and we
have to be gentle with ourselvesin that process and to recognize
that we are going to get offtrack. We are going to slip into
old habits, we are going to letunhealthy patterns creep back
(39:18):
in. And that's not a failure.That's a consequence of our
humanity, and that then we justlook at it and say, well, huh,
that happened. And now, what doI do with that? And that
acceptance of our frailty aspeople has been so important to
me, without the judgment, youknow, without, oh, you're a bad
(39:40):
person, you're a bad mom, you'rea bad employee, you're a bad
farmer, you're a bad whatever.No, we're just here. We're here
where we are. And now we say,okay, I don't like this. How do
I move forward? I just lovethat.
I'm a firm believer that everysingle circumstance and.
(40:00):
Um situation that comes up isfor our betterment and for us to
grow. Yes, every singlechallenge
is an opportunity to grow, andwhen we view it in that way, we
can say thank you for the lessonI've learned it, and we can move
on and not get stuck on it,because I'll keep looping on
(40:24):
that same challenge over andover and over until I get the
lesson of it. And sometimes it'sreally sneaky, and I'm kind of
blinded to it, and it'll take mea month and I'm like, I've been
on this merry go round
for a month. I'm ready to getoff, and then I get off. But we
have to have that, that selfreflection to be able to see
(40:47):
that, yeah, so that we don'tpull our families down with us,
our businesses, down our farms,down our employees, the whole
thing, yeah. And I think that'sreally, you know, that's a great
point that you just made toothat
we think that taking care ofourselves is taking away from
(41:07):
the farm, the family, theemployees, and really giving to
ourselves first and and filling,literally filling our tanks
first, is what we need to beable to have something to give
to others. And I know that thathas been said and re said a
million times, you know, put onyour own oxygen mask before you
try to help somebody else. Andyet, it's true, and I think we
(41:29):
have to keep repeating it,because it's something that
feels selfish to a lot of us,like we want to be able to just
give and give and give,especially, I think as women,
that's like something that we'rejust we want to nurture,
nurture, nurture, and thensomehow feel bad if we, in turn,
need to be nurtured. But thetruth is that we're meant to
(41:51):
nurture each other. We're notmeant to have one person
nurturing and somebody elsetaking and not have that
reciprocal so like we have towork on that reciprocity. We
have to work it, taking care ofourselves so that we have
something to give. Yep, and thatcan look so different for
everybody. It doesn't have to besomething expensive, it doesn't
(42:13):
have to be a giant vacation. Itcould be something as simple as
a cup of tea and five frigginminutes in the morning.
And sometimes I'll do that whereI just stand outside barefoot,
and I just look at the sunrisefor five minutes. I set a timer
for five minutes, and those fiveminutes sometimes are agonizing.
I could be XYZ, I should be XYZ.It's like, no five minutes.
(42:39):
I just, I just wrote about this,like, if we cannot give
ourselves five minutes a day,something's wrong with our
lifestyle. Because five minutes,seriously,
we're talking about the wholeday, 24 hours, and you can't
give yourself five minutes,like, we need to prioritize
(43:02):
that. And I, I agree, five fiveminutes to write some things
you're grateful for. Fiveminutes to drink that cup of
coffee and actually really savorit. You know, not just bolt the
coffee so that you can go anduse the caffeine to get through
your day, but actually, like,savor the flavor of the coffee,
especially if you make, like,yummy latte, little bit of
(43:24):
vanilla in the cream and, yeah,
smell it. Put the cinnamon onit. Don't smell it too deeply.
The cinnamon goes up your nose.You can't done this before,
but that, that, that being,being present in the moment for
just a few minutes, really canshape your whole day, because
(43:44):
you're also setting your systemup and you're saying, okay,
body, this is how I want toapproach my day. I want to
approach it in a in a spirit ofgratitude, in a spirit of being
present, as opposed to, oh mygosh, my feet have hit the floor
and I'm already behind. No,you're not, you're not behind.
You've got what you've got todo,
(44:05):
what needs to get done, will getdone. If not it didn't need to
get done, it's okay. It'll bethere tomorrow.
I it took me many years. I justturned 40 this last year, but it
took me, yeah, about 40 years tofinally realize that
I can do the same tasks, theexact same tasks, feeling
(44:29):
anxious and behind of like Ihave too much to do, or feeling
like, yeah, it's all going toget done
exact same tasks. It's the exactsame amount of time. It's just
my relationship to how I feelabout them. So really being
honest with our internallandscapes of like we are, our
authors of our lives. How do wewant to feel? And really
(44:53):
checking in with ourselves, apractice that was helpful for
me, that anyone can do and.
I would set an alarm on my phone
for 12. You could set any timeyou want of the day,
and the alarm would go off andit just says, How are you
feeling right now? And I wouldhave to check in. And there were
(45:14):
many days where I was like, Ifeel like my stomach's a little
tight, like I'm running behindall these things. And so I would
look at that and be like and Ineed to take a breath, and it
was one alarm every day just tohighlight and break that cycle
that I was in at that time ofbeing in this fight or flight to
get everything done that nohuman body is meant to sustain
(45:36):
for too long, that gets us intoall sorts of treacherous waters
long term, yeah, yeah,absolutely. That's where the
burnout happens. Because that's,that's what toxic stress is.
Those those little stressors canactually be the either the food
for us to grow, because we needsome of that stress, kind of,
kind of, like your chicksbreaking out of out of the egg,
(45:57):
like they need the stress ofbreaking out of the egg. And
yet, if, if the we were talkingabout this before, if the
membrane refuses to break andthey can't get out, it'll kill
them, and that's when they needhelp. And so we want to use our
stress in that really productiveway where we're breaking out,
we're getting stronger, we'reprepared for the next thing and
(46:18):
not letting it come in and crushus so much by not taking those
breaks and relieving that stressand casting that aside. Oh my
gosh, I could like talk to youfor another three hours. I just
love this. Thank you so much foryour time. I always ask ask
people before we leave, if youhad one thing that you would
(46:39):
like farmers to know, what wouldthat be?
Gosh, that's such a good widequestion.
One thing,
whenever you feel exhausted or
like you want to give up,
know that your work touches somany more people
(47:04):
than you'll ever realize.
And if you're working withintegrity,
you are having such a profoundand positive impact on the
world. Trust that and let thatbe your fuel for those hard
moments, and really breathe thatin all of the energy of the
(47:24):
people that you're feeding, thatyou're nourishing, have it come
back to you, because that willgive you the strength to keep
going.
Oh, wow. Thank you, Francesca,like I just love that.
I love the work that you'redoing and the way that you're
touching lives every day youhave certainly touched mine.
(47:48):
I really hope we can have youback on again sometime in the
future, and I hope you have agreat rest of the day, and all
of you out there, we will seeyou again. Thanks for joining
us. Bye
farm.
Farmers calling our shows offun. Goodbye, farewell. So long.
(48:11):
I do see you next week. Sametime, same place for food,
flowers and fun. Go in peace.
Visitus@www.pennlightfarmers.com
you.
What do psychology, midwiferyand chickens have in common?
Find out on this episode ofFood, Flowers, & Fun, when we
visit with Franchesca Duval ofAlchemist farm, we are
sponsored, as always, by PenLight for Farmers helping
overworked farm women clear awaythe barriers between them and
(00:22):
their vibrant farm lives, fullof satisfaction, purpose, health
and peace.
If you're the woman who does itall, farm work, housework, book
(00:42):
work, homework, getting up atthe break of dawn. This is the
podcast for you.
How do
you get away from the cares ofthe day? Restock, rootstock,
feedstock, seed, stock. Chatwith women around the world to
raise food, flowers and fun withyour host, K Castrataro, that's me.
(01:09):
So welcome to today's episode ofFood flowers and fun. I am your
host, kay Castrataro, and todayI am just so excited to have
Francesca Duvall from thealchemist farm with us. She is a
chicken midwife, basically, andjust the coolest woman. So I'm
not gonna say a whole lot moreabout your Francesca, because
(01:31):
I'm gonna let you tell yourstory. So tell us. Tell us how
you became a chicken midwife.
I love that. That's how youintroduce me as a chicken
midwife. On the tail of all ofmy emails, the little subheader
is the head chicken Wrangler.That's how I normally refer to
myself, because that's what Iseem to do around here, mostly,
is wrangle chickens, but I alsodo hatch a lot of baby chicks,
(01:54):
and so I do love being a chickenmidwife. I'm the owner and
founder of Alchemist farm, whichis a humane chicken hatchery in
Northern California, and weoffer many different breeds of
beautiful chickens that lay fun,colored eggs, that have all
different personalities andbeautiful feather types for
different families to enjoy. Wemostly ship our baby chicks to
(02:16):
backyard
families who want to have alittle group of hens. And we
believe that there is a chickenbreed for everybody, just like
there's a breed of cat or dog.And so we love getting to
educate on the world of chickensand share what they are with the
world, because they have so muchto offer us. They ask for so
little, and they give us so muchin return. And I know from
(02:39):
firsthand experience over thislast decade of offering baby
chicks to the world that theycan have such a profound
positive impact in people'slives. So it's an honor to make
that my life work.
It wasn't originally going to beyour life work, though. So tell
us. Tell us how you how youtransitioned into this, because
this was definitely not, youknow career number one for you?
(03:02):
No, and I wonder if anybodyknows their career number one
from an early age, maybe it's
always an interesting twist andturn path that leads us to where
we're supposed to be. And I wasoriginally studying psychology,
graduated with a degree inPsych, and thought that I would
be some sort of a counselor,couples counselor, or something
like that. And when I waslooking at graduate schools, I
(03:24):
couldn't find the perfect fit.And so I was taking a gap year,
and really got into
homesteading. And met my husbandand thought, well, in this
homesteading journey, I think Iactually want to do midwifery. I
want to be able to help familiesin that way and help bring
babies into the world. And sostarted studying that and
attending births. And throughthat process, I realized, gosh,
(03:45):
I'm attending births. I'm eithergoing to be a midwife to many
people, a wife to many people,or I can be a wife and a mother
to my family. And I really hadto choose. I didn't feel like I
could sustainably do both.
And so I chose my family, andthat was a pretty hard choice,
because
professionally, that's what Ihad geared myself up for for so
(04:06):
many years. And so I felt, ah,I'm losing these years of my
life. Am I wasting my time? Kindof spinning my wheels here, and
we had purchased our land at thesame time that I was letting go
of the midwifery dream, andwe're starting to do a little
homesteading here. Back beforehomesteading was cool, you know,
(04:26):
it was
just wanting to be closer toland and have a more of a simple
life. And I went to order babychicks because I knew I wanted
to have chickens. I'd always hadchickens in my life for 35 plus
years, but when I went to orderthe baby chicks I found out
about the practices of mostlarge scale hatchery of
euthanizing male chicks whenthey're hatched, excess male
(04:48):
chicks that no one wanted. Andsomething about that one piece
really stuck in my heart andmade me pause, and it felt like,
almost like a lightning boltwas.
Going through me, of I cannotsupport this. I need to do
something different, but I don'tknow what. And it was this, this
god given moment that every nowand again, there's these
(05:11):
moments, and I don't know ifyou've experienced this, or if
the listener who's listening inright now has experienced this.
That's why we're here, because Ihad one of those moments,
beautiful.
Of like, pay attention.Something's different. Really
focus, because there's somethinghere for you.
And it was the chickens. And soI started to hatch for myself.
(05:34):
And one thing led to another,because I knew, Okay, I can't
support that. I gotta do itmyself. One thing led to
another, and now we have theworld's first humane hatchery,
where all of our birds are outon pasture, and I'm able to
educate a lot on how the worldcan still interact with chickens
in a way that treats them well,treats us well, treats the
planet well. We're zero waste.We run entirely on solar power.
(05:58):
We love educating people thatthese things are possible in
their homes too. It doesn't haveto be some scary thing where
they're giving anything up,really, they're gaining so much.
And so it felt like Godredirected my life and prepared
me for this process, becausepsychology is a perfect degree
for my job of being a farmer andrunning a farm crew. Shouldn't
(06:20):
every farmer have a backgroundin psychology, just to stay
sane, not to mention dealingwith customers and interpersonal
relationships, but but reallythat that psychology does fit
very well with agriculture,
it does and midwifery andcelebrating the birth process
and really honoring that lifethat's coming in. And so much of
(06:44):
what I thought was a waste oftime was actually all of these
beautiful stepping stones. Andso I learned to have mercy on
myself in those years, and evennow, when I find myself in
moments of like, What is evenhappening? Why is this
happening? This is not how Ienvision things. I have to step
back and be like, you know, I'mseeing it in the micro. I gotta
see it in the macro. God has aplan for me, and I just need to
(07:05):
keep stepping forward withintegrity. Yes, oh, I told so
much about what you said. Isjust like resonating with me
right now.
That idea of looking back andthinking I wasted this time, or
I wasted that opportunity, orhad I done this differently, I'd
be in a different place. And howthat's that's not it like where
(07:29):
you are now.
You have everything that youneed to be where you are now and
to do the thing that you arecalled to do now. And without
those wasted things, youwouldn't be able to do what you
do as well. And I know that Ifound that in my life where I'm
like, Oh yeah, I taught middleschool and high school English
(07:50):
for two years. Oh, that was awaste of a, you know, master's
degree in education, and yethere I am educating people all
the time about how to supportthemselves, working with
farmers, and using all of thoseskills in ways that I never
expected to but that's, youknow, that's the miracle of what
God does with us, is that hetakes us through this journey
(08:12):
that we could never have plannedfor ourselves, and he does make
something beautiful out of it.And I just, I love, I love that
whole vision that you have forthat and
and I also was really struck byyour your talk about the
sustainability and theinterconnectedness of your
(08:33):
experiences in the chickens andthe environment, and how that
really transcends livestock, Ithink, like it transcends the
specifics of chickens and movesinto where we all really can can
make a change for ourselves.What do you like? How do you how
do you see that expanding beyondjust the chicken world? Oh, it
(08:55):
can be anywhere, and I love
offering that call to action,not a challenge, but just that
inspiration for anybody, nomatter what sector or business
they're in, they can look aroundand see, how could i How could I
make this better for the planet,for the people around me? How
could I be in more integritywith everything that I'm doing,
(09:17):
every step along the way, andsuddenly
things will be revealed if we ifwe ask for those kinds of
answers to be given to us, theywill be given.
I had an amazing therapist whotalked about
speaking with God as if we werein a restaurant and needing to
be really clear for what we'reordering from the menu, and God
(09:40):
will just give us everyexperience that, like, you know,
it things, things will come ourway. But if we're like, you
know, God, I'd really like to beable to whatever serve in a
certain capacity. It's likeordering a cheeseburger versus
ordering, you know, yep, youknow, a grilled cheese or
something. Like, God needs toknow what, what kind of things
to put in.
Our path to be able to help usalong the ways that we could be
(10:02):
of greatest service. And so yougot to know what you're asking
for. You know, think in thiscosmic restaurant conversation
of of life, so sometimes findthat I order a cheeseburger and
he gives me a hot dog, and I'mlike, I didn't want a
cheeseburger. I wanted a hotdog. And yet, when I after,
after a little while, I realizedthat that hot dog was exactly
(10:24):
what I needed in order to get toto the the real end point, like
so many times. So it's that thatreally interesting tension
between having the vision andsaying, No, this is what I want,
and also being open to the factthat sometimes what we think we
want isn't really where we'regoing to end up, because there's
(10:46):
something greater beyond thatand that that initial goal might
change, kind of like I'm goingto be a counselor, I'm going to
be a midwife, Oh no, what I'mreally going to do is take care
of chickens and help show theworld that there is a different
way to raise chickens, and Ithink I find that really
(11:06):
inspiring, too. Because I thinkone of the things that kind of
hurts my heart when I look atfarming a lot of the times, is
that
people lose that sense ofpotential, like the idea that
things can be different, youknow? And it's not just in
farming. I mean,
look at our world right now,like so many things are being
(11:27):
done under the name of, well,you just can't have it a better
way than this. Like, this is thebest it can be. And I don't
subscribe to that. And I thinkfor farmers especially, it's
like, if we could let go of someof those preconceptions about
what farming looks like, what itmeans to be a good farmer,
(11:48):
what it means to be happy and,you know, successful as a
farmer. If we could let some ofthat go and open ourselves to a
new way of seeing and being, Ithink it could be really
revolutionary. I think we'd havea lot better impacts on farmers,
the environment and the peoplethat we serve. Yep, it all
(12:09):
starts with us and the momentthat each of us realizes that
we are in control of ouremotional state. We cannot
always be in control of thecircumstances around us, but we
can absolutely choose how we'regoing to react to them, and one
person's terrible day is anotherperson's best day, depending on
(12:31):
how they view it and how they'regoing to be interacting with the
world.
So things don't always have tobe one way. They don't always
have to be the same. For awhile, I did feel like things
just had to be one way. And Iwas really letting the external
happenings of the farm affect mymental health or physical
(12:53):
health, if there were differentstressors or things happening.
And I was really getting, like,push pulled in all these
different directions, and I hadto stop and be like, Okay, this
is my experience in life. I onlyget one life here. I can change
how I feel about all of this. Ican find things to be grateful
for. I can view every single oneof these challenges as an
invitation to get creative formy Creator and not feel like I'm
(13:16):
being punished or just likebeing drugged over the coals.
You know, like these are, theseare all things to make us
stronger, and sometimes also theanswer is just, I've found to to
pray for acceptance and then,and then the tests stop coming.
For a while, I pray forstrength, and I would be given
(13:37):
challenge after challenge thatwould strengthen me. I don't
pray for strength anymore. Ipray for perseverance. I pray
for wisdom.
Open
for patience.
I was 16 years old, and I askedGod, I remember, I remember
sitting in my bed and prayingthat God would make me patient
(13:58):
and that don't ever pray forpatience, because just like
being praying for strength, theonly way you get patient is by
having a whole lot of thingsthat make you feel impatient.
I tell my kids all the time, I'mlike, don't, don't pray that
prayer. They've actually toldother adults. They're like, You
never pray for patience.
(14:20):
So funny
and so true we don't evenrealize. And that's what I mean
about that restaurant analogy.Prayer is like putting in our
order, right? Like, be carefulwhat you pray for. Like, you
want to be more noble, I'll makeyou noble. Patience. Was that
hot dog? Actually, I do not wantthat. Thank you. Just kidding.
(14:41):
So tell me how you, how you camearound to that shift, like, what
are, what are some practicalsteps that you took to deal with
the external stressors. And youknow, if you're willing to share
some of those externalstressors, I'm sure that
everybody would really benefitfrom it. But I also know that
i.
Want to give people as much roomto share what they're
(15:03):
comfortable with and not sharewhat they're not comfortable
with, but if you could at leastgive us some strategies that
you've used, I think that'shelpful.
Really, getting to know myselfwell and be super honest with my
introspective work was veryhelpful, and what I realized is
I was very, very stubborn andwanted to keep doing things in a
(15:26):
way that I thought needed to bedone, like I just have to keep
working harder. If I just put inmore hours than it's going to
be, things will make sense. Andwhat was happening was I was
slowly wearing myself down,down, down, as opposed to taking
a step back and saying, Okay,how can I radically change all
of these systems that I'mpouring Okay? An example, all of
(15:49):
our chicken watering systemswere just the simple waters
that, like a backyard chickenkeeper would have that are just
like on the ground. It's water.I was going out there with my
baby on my back three times aday changing the waters. Oh, and
that was so many hours of laborand and I was getting tired, and
(16:09):
I was exhausted, and I wasn'table to do other things to
further our farm and ourbusiness. And then finally, I
was just gave up. I looked at myhusband, I said, I gotta do
something. I need help. I gottado something different. He said,
Well, let's take the time you'respending three hours a day doing
that. Let's slow down and let'sspend three hours designing
something different. And I wasso on this track of, like, I
(16:30):
just got to do it. I don't haveenough time. I don't have enough
time that I didn't give myselfthe space to slow down. But when
I slowed down and looked I'mlike, okay,
change that narrative, thereabsolutely is time for
everything. It's just how wespend it. Right now, I'm going
to spend that time on designingsomething that's going to save
me time. And when we're reallyin it and we're just feeling
(16:53):
overwhelmed by the chores,
they are owning us, the farm isowning us,
and there is a way to be able tobuild things smarter. It doesn't
mean that you're any less of afarmer, or that you're cheating
or anything. To be able to giveyourself some headspace. So you
can design more systems that arebetter and more effective. Now
(17:15):
we have an automatic wateringsystem that comes in on a timer
to these beautiful, big barrelswhere it's gravity fed water
that isn't a nipple system thatgoes to the chickens outside.
Their water is cleaner. It'sbetter for them. That's three
hours a day that I get back andthat's one of many examples
where I was really stubborn,feeling like this is how I've
done it. It just needs to keepgoing this way.
(17:38):
And it was, it was taxing me,taking me away from my family,
causing me all sorts of issues,yeah, and it's, it's tough, um,
you know, as I'm hearing yourstory, I'm reminded of when my
son was was a newborn, and I hadhorses, and so every morning,
you know, you gotta go out, yougotta do chores, you gotta feed
(17:59):
the animals, You gotta clean thestalls, and he was a baby, and
so I had a playpen set up in ourgreen room, and I would put him
in the playpen, and he wouldcry, and I would sing to him,
and I, like, was constantlytorn, but because I wanted to
have him on my back, but I hadhorses, And I just, I was like,
(18:21):
you can't be safe. Like, yeah, Itrust my horses with everybody
except my baby. Like, I'm notgonna because things happen. You
know, you know how it is. Thingshappen with livestock. And so,
like, we spent so much time outthere and looking back, it just,
it's like, Wow, I wonder ifthere had been a better way to
(18:43):
do that, you know, if, if I hadadjusted my schedule a little
bit, like, what if I had, like,done it earlier in the morning
when my my husband, at the time,was still here? Or, you know,
like so many things, that, asI'm hearing your story, I'm
like, Man, there were probably alot of creative solutions I
could have come up to to save myson and I a lot of stress, and
(19:07):
yet, like you said, you're inthe middle of it, and it's just
like, Well, you got to do thechores like you got to do it,
and you got to do it this time,this way, and and that is
something that I've definitelylearned is that we've gotta,
gotta stop putting I love whatyou say about the farm owning us
like we don't want our farms toown us. We want to have the farm
(19:33):
supporting what makes ussatisfied like what meets our
goals and values. That's whatthe farm should be doing, at
least this is, this is my, mymission in life is to get people
to say, when you're just lettingthe farm run you, you're going
to be destroyed in the process.Because, yeah, because the farm
is always going to ask forthings that you can't or don't
(19:55):
want to give that. So if youstart and say, No, this.
Is what's important. I'mimportant. My family's
important. These are thepriorities. And then what do I
have to do to change? Like yousaid, that system, the whole
farm system, if you need to do,I need to grow different crops.
Do I need to reduce? Do I needto expand? Like, all kinds of
(20:16):
things that you can do, and notlook at that as a judgment, like
if you go part time instead offull time, that doesn't make you
less of a farmer. It means thatyou're using your farm to
support your needs and notlosing yourself in it. Yep, love
that about about what you'resharing. Absolutely love that I
(20:38):
view the farm, and so somepeople also make the farm a
business. Some people the farmis like a hobby or a lifestyle,
a homesteading hobby. Regardlessif it's a business or
homesteading hobby,
it's it's like a marriage.
It's like any marriage. And Ifeel like there's going to be
(20:59):
some give and take. There aresome times when the farm needs
more from me and I can give it,and there's other times where I
have to be really careful andnot be codependent and give too
much of myself
and and not sleep and not beable to, particularly on the
business side of things, withwith customer service like there
(21:21):
has to be, because we're workingfrom home. And
most, most farmers are workingfrom home. It's, it's right out
their back door, their office isright there, everything's right
there. And there has to be somesort of healthy mental
separation of, okay, I'm on, I'mworking right now versus and now
I'm in family mode or selfpreservation mode.
(21:43):
And really, like,compartmentalizing those in our
head is really powerful. So wedon't have that codependency of,
if no one, if people don't knowwhat that term is, it's, it's
useful to look up and then justmost people use it in terms of,
like, romantic relationships.But it can also just put it on
your farm and see if you're amatch. Because if you're feeling
(22:04):
totally burnt out, you might be,and it'll change the way that
you look at your farming andyour business and how you're
running it.
Yeah, it's having that. It'shaving that separation where you
and the farm are not the samething, like, the success of the
farm is not necessarily thesuccess of you as a person, and
(22:27):
your success is not dependentupon, you know, some standard
that you're holding for thefarm. And I think that is super,
super important.
You know, I'm not currently fulltime farming anymore, but I work
from my house, and like, youdon't see this, but there are no
walls where I am, like,
(22:48):
this leads into my kitchen.Leaves leads into where we eat,
slash living room. I have asmall house, so it's like, there
is no physical delineation, andI find it really, really
difficult to turn off work modeand just go into mom mode.
And so I'm wondering how you'vedone that successfully, or more
(23:12):
like, successfully, I know weall struggle with it. So success
again. We use success on acontinuum. You're like, this is,
I subscribe to the WeightWatchers theme of progress, not
perfection. So, yeah,
small things find the smallthings that save you.
Yeah,
(23:33):
I think I would love to say thatI have gracefully walked that
tightrope the entire decade I'vebeen running the farm business.
I have not
when I was pregnant with mysecond child,
I went into labor on Tuesday.
Tuesday's my shipping day,
(23:55):
and at the time, I didn't havethe system set up. I didn't put
the time into training people
to identify the chicks, pull thechicks, package the chicks. So I
was packaging up the chicks inlabor, and then I told my
husband, okay, they gotta beshipped off. Today's a day. And
he's like, your customers willunderstand, like you're in
(24:18):
labor. They can wait a week forthe chicks. I'm like, no, they
cannot. Like, it must happentoday. And he, like, drove them
off the post office and left mein labor. We're gonna have a
home birth. And he said he feltit felt really weird to him.
He's like, Okay. I'm like,driving away, like, are you
gonna be okay? I'm like, I don'tthink this baby's gonna be born,
you know, in the next hour,we're okay here.
But an example of how
(24:41):
I haven't had that balance verygraceful, but that was one of
those moments where I was like,I need to have this balance,
because this is silly. Sosometimes it takes really
exaggerated experiences likethat
to highlight that. And I.
Having a separate space. Webuilt a very small little shed,
(25:05):
and that's my office, and it'soutside of the house, and so I
do all my work in the office,and then when I close that door,
I know, okay, that's all I cangive today. I do not answer
emails on my phone anymore. II'm really careful about when
and how I go on social media forfor sharing our information, and
(25:26):
really meter my time that way,because it's very easy. It was
easy for me to have it bleedinto my everyday life, and I had
to just ask myself, okay, whatis my priority right now? Yeah,
is it going to be my family? Isit going to be work? And really
getting brutally honest withmyself in that
(25:46):
so you have, you have your shed,and you can close, close the
doors, which, you know, I've gotthis office over my barn that I
keep saying I'm going to moveinto my office. I'm going to be
moving to my office. I have allthese excuses why I haven't
moved into the office yet, andI'm listening to you, and it's
almost like God is saying, willyou please move into the office,
because, because it's hard, youknow, my kids come home and I
(26:09):
want to shut off, and I don't,
I tell them, just just anotherminute. Just another minute. And
and then it becomes, you know, acouple hours. So what are some
of the other like, boundariesthat you put in for yourself to
to try to keep that distancewhere you in the farm are not
becoming codependent.
(26:30):
What you just said about thejust another minute, just
another minute to your children,is something that I've been
guilty of, that my father wasdefinitely guilty of. And I
remember being a child andthinking, this stinks.
I don't want to be just anotherminute, just another minute,
because it he was working hardfor our family, doing the best
(26:51):
he could and providing for us.At the same time, I always felt,
I was feeling the passage oftime, of like, I'm getting older
here eventually I'm not going tobe living in this house, like
just another minute scanner,just another year, like you're
missing out.
And so when I heard myselfsaying that phrase to my
(27:13):
children, it was anotherlightning bolt moment of like,
I can't do this. I'm not goingto let my children feel that
way. I had to get brutallyhonest with myself. Okay, why am
I doing this?
Why,
like, for you? Why haven't youmoved out in the office? Like,
(27:35):
really getting honest andlooking at that in ourselves?
That's the part that needs tochange. Because I could talk all
day long about like, oh, there'sall these practices. You could,
like, ring a bell at the end ofyour work day and be like, I'm
done. You could set like,parameters on your cell phone
and, like, put in a differentroom where you're like, this is
the boundary. I'm not gonna lookat my cell phone, but really
(27:56):
it's checking into our internallandscape. And for me, being
super honest of I am puttingwork before my family,
and I can't have it all at thesame time. I cannot have a
thriving family
and a thriving business
(28:20):
where I'm pulling myself 100%into both, like it needs to be
one or the other in this moment,
in this moment, that's I reallylove that and and, you know, I'm
because I believe in brutalhonesty with myself as with
others.
I know that one of, one of thechallenges for me with sticking
(28:41):
in work is that sometimes thework is a whole lot more
satisfying than the parenting,because and I love my children,
I put a lot of time into mykids. Totally love my children,
and yet, there is somethingabout having a job that you do,
and you create products, or youget, you get feedback. Like,
(29:05):
happy clients tend to give youpositive feedback. Whereas, how
many times do you cook a youknow, you spend all this time
you cook a meal, and peoplelike, I don't want to eat that.
And it's like, seriously,
you clean the house, and youturn around, and then all of a
sudden, like all the stuff thatyou just put away, it's all out
again. And so for me, you knowthat there really is a sense
(29:29):
where the the parenting slashhousework stuff, it never gives
me the same sense ofsatisfaction, because I never
feel like it's done, and I neverfeel like it's being appreciated
the same way that my outsidework does, and it also feeds a
really creative part of me,which is, you know, part of me,
(29:49):
and yet I love my children, andI want them to feel supported,
and I want them to have the bestof me. And so I think,
I don't think I'm alone in that.
I think a lot of farmers, it'seasier to focus on your
business. It's less emotional tofocus on your business. Like if
you've I've got a child who's alittle bit of a challenge, and
(30:11):
so the amount of energy that hasto go into that child is far
more than I would ever spend ona full 10 minutes with this is
often more energy than I willspend on a whole day of work.
So,
so that has been one of mychallenges. And I wonder if, if
(30:31):
you've had similar, if that wassimilar for you, or different
and and what helps you? Youknow, because we all want to be
there for our kids and ourspouses and and we want to
create a peaceful, restful homeenvironment, and sometimes it
just feels like a thanklesstask. So, so how do you help get
(30:53):
yourself past that?
It's a huge question, I know,
with a really multifacetedanswer, and for me, it was
really digging into my internallandscape and asking, Why am I
finding more validation Fromwork than I am
(31:19):
in motherhood?
Is this my story, or is this astory that's been given to me
that it is more valuable for meto be part of the workforce than
it is to be a mother?
What do I actually believeversus what has been shown to
(31:39):
me?
And it's true in farming. Like,I feel like, I mean, it's true
across the landscape for women,I think. But growing up in a
multi generational farm family,I definitely grew up feeling
that the work you did on thefarm was more valuable than the
work that you were doinganywhere else, like, you know
(32:02):
the it's always interesting,because the the girls would be
expected to
go out and work in the fields.Then we were supposed to stop
working in the fields, go in,make coffee break. The guys
would come in, we'd serve themcoffee break. The guys would go
back in the fields. We weresupposed to clean up from coffee
break, and then go out and workin the fields.
(32:23):
Yes. So it was like, well, thewomen aren't needed in the
field. Like, it's not asimportant for them. So just,
just go make us coffee break andand so it's really interesting
that you say that I'm like, Oh,I might have to do some
journaling on that, do somevisual journaling, and really,
really tap into that, because Icould be looked at both ways.
Yeah, it could be looked at aslike, oh well, the women aren't
(32:47):
needed in the fields. Like, ofcourse, we're the ones making
the coffee. Of course we're theones cleaning up. That's one
narrative. The other narrativeis
the men wanted to provide and,hey, we got to have a break. We
got to go inside. We werechatting. We were making the
coffee. We got to have adifferent experience. What a
(33:08):
beautiful thing. If it's ahealthy masculine that's holding
the space of like, Hey, we'rewanting to provide,
we could be doing the coffee.It's a, it's a, it's a lighter
task. You could be out therelike bucking straw, or, you
know, it could be the other wayaround. We want to provide for
(33:28):
you. So it it all depends on thefamily dynamic. And how healthy
was that masculine? How healthywas that feminine? Where are
those stories coming from thatyou that so many of us have of
like
that femininity and motherhoodand a woman's work isn't as
(33:48):
valuable.
Some people genuinely don't wantto be mothers. And that's a
that's a new concept. You
know, some people kind of lookdown on that
there, though, like, I think, Ithink culture is finally
realizing that not everybodyneeds to have children in order
(34:09):
to have value. I mean, therewas, you know, there were so
many reasons why
having children has been sohighly valued, you know, we
could go into we could talkHistory and Sociology and
religion and all kinds of thingswith that, but,
but I do think it's kind of ahealthier atmosphere for people
(34:30):
who are like, I'm just not cutout for that,
that stay at home mom thing, orhow to figure out how to keep
your
professional life and yourfamily life when, as you said,
you can't do it all in the samemoment. So while you can have it
(34:51):
all, you can't have it all atthe same time. So how you figure
out what that looks like and youcan't have it all in the same
way? So again, that goes backto.
I think, re envisioning whatfarming looks like, or re
envisioning what it looks liketo be a working woman, farm
wife, you know, all of thosethings.
(35:11):
That's what I mean about tappinginto the internal landscape, and
you touch on it with thejournaling. What a powerful tool
that's free. Just get a piece ofpaper and a pencil or a pen and
sit down. You know, it costs youa little bit of time, but it's
going to give you so muchrichness if you just allow your
subconscious to bubble up alittle bit and communicate with
you, with with the written word.
(35:34):
Because the answers aredifferent for everyone, yes, as
to what we get to be the authorsof our lives. What kind of a
life do we want to live? And ifwe can't have it all at the same
time, what is our timeline? Andthe only way to live life I have
found and not have life Live me,
(35:57):
is to be doing at the very leasta weekly check in with myself.
Of Do I like the direction I'mgoing?
Do I like the person I am rightnow? And if I don't course
correct,
if I let it go longer than aweek, I notice things aren't
(36:18):
going the direction I don't likeand the
extreme. Demands of running afarm, and particularly the type
of business I have of a hatcherywhere I am at the mercy of
the natural world,
the weather, the USPS, the moodsof my customers, the the social
(36:45):
media interactions, it's allfiltering through me.
And for me to be able to be inintegrity and not just crumble
into a pile of ashes, I have tobe really clear each week of
what do I need to adjust andwhat kind of scaffolding and
support do I need to bring onboard so I can keep doing this
(37:07):
work? Otherwise, I'm going toget myself into a really
uncomfortable physical situationwhere I'm just exhausted and
burnt out and I'm, yeah, I didthat in 2020, and I'm not going
to do that I did the same thingnine months. I had nine months
where I I could, I could hike 10miles a day and have plenty of
(37:27):
energy for that. I would comehome and could not physically
lift my laptop to work.Couldn't, couldn't do it like
because my brain just finallywas like, You're you are pushing
too, too hard. There was way toomuch toxic stress built up just
not, not well managed at all,and that, that is one of my
(37:48):
passions now, like,
I don't want other people to endup there, because it takes a
really long time to crawl backout of that hole and and the
challenges you face on the otherside of that hole for a little
while are a whole lot biggerthan the ones that got you in
there.
(38:10):
So once you get on stableground, you've got more energy
to deal with those. But wouldn'tit be better if we could
backtrack that and avoid gettingdown in that hole to begin with.
And I think your weekly checkins are so genius, because, you
know, then you can maybe go onestep down into the hole and say,
Whoa, wait a minute. And if youhave to back up that step and go
(38:33):
around the hole, you can dothat. Or you can build a bridge
like then you can make all yourplans. But when that, when
you're down in the bottom, thengetting out is a whole lot
harder. And so I think, I thinksometimes we think that if we've
got ourselves together at like,any one given point in time,
that's it, like we should beable to do it once and be on the
(38:56):
right track and not have toworry about it again. And like
you, I have found that it reallyis a constant process, and we
have to be gentle with ourselvesin that process and to recognize
that we are going to get offtrack. We are going to slip into
old habits, we are going to letunhealthy patterns creep back
(39:18):
in. And that's not a failure.That's a consequence of our
humanity, and that then we justlook at it and say, well, huh,
that happened. And now, what doI do with that? And that
acceptance of our frailty aspeople has been so important to
me, without the judgment, youknow, without, oh, you're a bad
(39:40):
person, you're a bad mom, you'rea bad employee, you're a bad
farmer, you're a bad whatever.No, we're just here. We're here
where we are. And now we say,okay, I don't like this. How do
I move forward? I just lovethat.
I'm a firm believer that everysingle circumstance and.
(40:00):
Um situation that comes up isfor our betterment and for us to
grow. Yes, every singlechallenge
is an opportunity to grow, andwhen we view it in that way, we
can say thank you for the lessonI've learned it, and we can move
on and not get stuck on it,because I'll keep looping on
(40:24):
that same challenge over andover and over until I get the
lesson of it. And sometimes it'sreally sneaky, and I'm kind of
blinded to it, and it'll take mea month and I'm like, I've been
on this merry go round
for a month. I'm ready to getoff, and then I get off. But we
have to have that, that selfreflection to be able to see
(40:47):
that, yeah, so that we don'tpull our families down with us,
our businesses, down our farms,down our employees, the whole
thing, yeah. And I think that'sreally, you know, that's a great
point that you just made toothat
we think that taking care ofourselves is taking away from
(41:07):
the farm, the family, theemployees, and really giving to
ourselves first and and filling,literally filling our tanks
first, is what we need to beable to have something to give
to others. And I know that thathas been said and re said a
million times, you know, put onyour own oxygen mask before you
try to help somebody else. Andyet, it's true, and I think we
(41:29):
have to keep repeating it,because it's something that
feels selfish to a lot of us,like we want to be able to just
give and give and give,especially, I think as women,
that's like something that we'rejust we want to nurture,
nurture, nurture, and thensomehow feel bad if we, in turn,
need to be nurtured. But thetruth is that we're meant to
(41:51):
nurture each other. We're notmeant to have one person
nurturing and somebody elsetaking and not have that
reciprocal so like we have towork on that reciprocity. We
have to work it, taking care ofourselves so that we have
something to give. Yep, and thatcan look so different for
everybody. It doesn't have to besomething expensive, it doesn't
(42:13):
have to be a giant vacation. Itcould be something as simple as
a cup of tea and five frigginminutes in the morning.
And sometimes I'll do that whereI just stand outside barefoot,
and I just look at the sunrisefor five minutes. I set a timer
for five minutes, and those fiveminutes sometimes are agonizing.
I could be XYZ, I should be XYZ.It's like, no five minutes.
(42:39):
I just, I just wrote about this,like, if we cannot give
ourselves five minutes a day,something's wrong with our
lifestyle. Because five minutes,seriously,
we're talking about the wholeday, 24 hours, and you can't
give yourself five minutes,like, we need to prioritize
(43:02):
that. And I, I agree, five fiveminutes to write some things
you're grateful for. Fiveminutes to drink that cup of
coffee and actually really savorit. You know, not just bolt the
coffee so that you can go anduse the caffeine to get through
your day, but actually, like,savor the flavor of the coffee,
especially if you make, like,yummy latte, little bit of
(43:24):
vanilla in the cream and, yeah,
smell it. Put the cinnamon onit. Don't smell it too deeply.
The cinnamon goes up your nose.You can't done this before,
but that, that, that being,being present in the moment for
just a few minutes, really canshape your whole day, because
(43:44):
you're also setting your systemup and you're saying, okay,
body, this is how I want toapproach my day. I want to
approach it in a in a spirit ofgratitude, in a spirit of being
present, as opposed to, oh mygosh, my feet have hit the floor
and I'm already behind. No,you're not, you're not behind.
You've got what you've got todo,
(44:05):
what needs to get done, will getdone. If not it didn't need to
get done, it's okay. It'll bethere tomorrow.
I it took me many years. I justturned 40 this last year, but it
took me, yeah, about 40 years tofinally realize that
I can do the same tasks, theexact same tasks, feeling
(44:29):
anxious and behind of like Ihave too much to do, or feeling
like, yeah, it's all going toget done
exact same tasks. It's the exactsame amount of time. It's just
my relationship to how I feelabout them. So really being
honest with our internallandscapes of like we are, our
authors of our lives. How do wewant to feel? And really
(44:53):
checking in with ourselves, apractice that was helpful for
me, that anyone can do and.
I would set an alarm on my phone
for 12. You could set any timeyou want of the day,
and the alarm would go off andit just says, How are you
feeling right now? And I wouldhave to check in. And there were
(45:14):
many days where I was like, Ifeel like my stomach's a little
tight, like I'm running behindall these things. And so I would
look at that and be like and Ineed to take a breath, and it
was one alarm every day just tohighlight and break that cycle
that I was in at that time ofbeing in this fight or flight to
get everything done that nohuman body is meant to sustain
(45:36):
for too long, that gets us intoall sorts of treacherous waters
long term, yeah, yeah,absolutely. That's where the
burnout happens. Because that's,that's what toxic stress is.
Those those little stressors canactually be the either the food
for us to grow, because we needsome of that stress, kind of,
kind of, like your chicksbreaking out of out of the egg,
(45:57):
like they need the stress ofbreaking out of the egg. And
yet, if, if the we were talkingabout this before, if the
membrane refuses to break andthey can't get out, it'll kill
them, and that's when they needhelp. And so we want to use our
stress in that really productiveway where we're breaking out,
we're getting stronger, we'reprepared for the next thing and
(46:18):
not letting it come in and crushus so much by not taking those
breaks and relieving that stressand casting that aside. Oh my
gosh, I could like talk to youfor another three hours. I just
love this. Thank you so much foryour time. I always ask ask
people before we leave, if youhad one thing that you would
(46:39):
like farmers to know, what wouldthat be?
Gosh, that's such a good widequestion.
One thing,
whenever you feel exhausted or
like you want to give up,
know that your work touches somany more people
(47:04):
than you'll ever realize.
And if you're working withintegrity,
you are having such a profoundand positive impact on the
world. Trust that and let thatbe your fuel for those hard
moments, and really breathe thatin all of the energy of the
(47:24):
people that you're feeding, thatyou're nourishing, have it come
back to you, because that willgive you the strength to keep
going.
Oh, wow. Thank you, Francesca,like I just love that.
I love the work that you'redoing and the way that you're
touching lives every day youhave certainly touched mine.
(47:48):
I really hope we can have youback on again sometime in the
future, and I hope you have agreat rest of the day, and all
of you out there, we will seeyou again. Thanks for joining
us. Bye
farm.
Farmers calling our shows offun. Goodbye, farewell. So long.
(48:11):
I do see you next week. Sametime, same place for food,
flowers and fun. Go in peace.
Visitus@www.pennlightfarmers.com
you.
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