July 28, 2024 • 49 mins
Today's guest, Penelope Goodsall, is a passionate and purpose driven business leader with over fifteen years of global expertise in brand strategy and communications.
As Australian Vintage’s Sustainability Manager, Penelope is responsible for leading the global ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) strategy, setting the roadmap to deliver net zero absolute reduction across all scopes by 2040, delivering positive environmental and social impact, and ensuring purposeful growth and transparent reporting. Incorporating sustainable business practices across the organisation to mitigate risks and enhance stakeholder value, she is committed to using business as a force for good. This dedication saw Australian Vintage become B Corp certified in February 2024, ensuring long term commitment to transparency, accountability, and purpose-driven business.
Australian Vintage is the company behind wine labels like Tempus Two, Nepenthe, McGuigan Wines, Barossa Valley Wine Company, The Shy Pig, Not Guilty and many more.
In our interview, Penelope shares Australian Vintage's groundbreaking shift towards sustainability, guided by a forward-thinking CEO and board in 2022. We explore the influences behind this strategic move and she walks us through the company's full-scale involvement in the wine production value chain, their innovative low and no alcohol products, and their B Corp certification.
We also explore the significant commercial benefits of being purpose-driven, from increased employee engagement to attracting like-minded investors.
Tune in to be inspired by Australian Vintage’s dedication to making wine that is truly good and their leadership in the sustainability space.
Connect with Penelope and Australian Vintage
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
Penelope Goodsall is a passionate and purpose-driven business leader with over
15 years of global expertise in brand strategy and communications.
As Australian Vintage's Sustainability Manager, Penelope is responsible for
leading the Global ESG, Environmental, Social and Governance strategy,
setting the roadmap to deliver net zero absolute reduction across all scopes
(00:37):
by 2040, delivering positive environmental and social impact and,
ensuring purposeful growth and transparent reporting.
Incorporating sustainable business practices across the organisation to mitigate
risks and enhance stakeholder value, she's committed to using business as a force for good.
(00:57):
Now, this dedication saw Australian Vintage become BCOR certified in February
2024, ensuring long-term commitment to transparency, accountability and purpose-driven business.
Business australian vintage is the
company behind wine labels like tempest
2 nepenthe mcguigan wines barossa
(01:20):
valley wine company the shy pig not guilty
and many more in our interview penelope
shares australian vintage's groundbreaking shift towards sustainability guided
by a forward thinking ceo and board in 2022 we explore the influences behind
this strategic move and she She walks us through the company's full-scale involvement
(01:43):
in the wine production value chain,
their innovative low and no alcohol products, and their B Corp certification.
We also explore the significant commercial benefits of being purpose-driven,
from increased employee engagement to attracting like-minded investors.
There is indeed more to good wine, and if you can enjoy a good wine while listening
(02:08):
to this episode, all the merrier.
Penelope, welcome to the For Love and Money podcast. Thank you for joining us.
Thank you for having me, Carolyn. It's wonderful to be here.
So I wonder if you could give us your opinion on the first question I ask every
guest, which is, in your view, does love have a role in business?
It's such a great question. I can't see how it doesn't. It's such a powerful emotion.
(02:34):
And given that we spend at least a third of our life at work.
I think love does come into business, but I think it's really around what sort
of form it takes within business.
So people talk about, you must love what you do, you must love where you work
and love who you work with. And I think that is really true.
(02:54):
For me, certainly when I'm with an organization, all of those things matter to me.
But I think what we're really starting to see now is the power of love in the
form of passion and how that sort of shows up at work.
And I think that's really wonderful to see because we're getting people that
are now not just working to earn a paycheck,
they're working to really have impact and to show up and be involved and create change or innovate.
(03:21):
And whether we're seeing that through the world of entrepreneurs or people that
are doing things really differently and questioning the way business has always been done,
I think that love is coming through in the way people are thinking about how
business is done, how they work with other people, and how that collaboration
can really create something wonderful.
(03:43):
Thank you for that. And it sounds like you speak from direct experience about
that passion for your work and what you do and who you work with.
And I'm really looking forward to getting into the conversation about Australian
Vintage and your recent B Corp certification and how that has inspired more
(04:05):
passion within because it's all about the energy you bring, isn't it?
But at the end of the day, you know, as employees and other stakeholders,
it's about, you know, how energized you are by the mission of the organization
and by your role and what you're contributing to.
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I think, you know.
(04:26):
Passionate or passion is contagious. So if someone shows up and they're really
passionate, people will be inspired by that person.
They'll want to listen to that person. They'll want to follow that person.
And I think it also breeds curiosity as well.
So I think when someone's passionate, they're often open and inviting and enables
other people to sort of join in.
(04:47):
And it has this wonderful way of igniting conversation and collaboration.
And so I think, yeah, there's a lot to be said for passion and how that can
empower the individual, but also create collective change within an organization.
Love it, love it, love it. Passion, collaboration, curiosity.
(05:09):
These are going to be juicy themes today. I just absolutely know it.
So tell us a bit about Penelope. Give us your background story.
Dory, just, you know, what are the key moments in your life that you think have
brought you here to what you are doing today with Australian Vintage?
Holly, it's been a bit of a random winding road.
(05:32):
I'm originally from Sydney. I've always been someone who has really been curious
by the natural world and, you know, been a great animal lover and a great traveller.
And I think the people within the world and the cultures have always been something
that I've been very, very interested in.
And so once I finished high school, I did what a lot of Aussies do and moved
(05:54):
to the UK and sort of really had that time to really sort of try and figure
out what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go.
I wasn't that sort of kid that left school and thought, oh my gosh,
I know exactly what I'm going to do when I leave school. I was kind of like, what am I going to do?
And I think having that opportunity was amazing because I got to see the world
and meet a whole bunch of people outside of my little bubble.
(06:15):
And I sort of found my way into the
the wine world through working in gorgeous restaurants and
you know traveling to France and things like that which was great and then came
back to South Australia to study and found my obviously being in South Australia
wine's a big part of the culture and the industry down there and really sort
(06:36):
of spent a lot of time in you know the The branding side of wine,
I did some time in sales, communications before my career sort of took me overseas
and I ended up in the US and spent a lot of time over there promoting Australian wine,
working with government and media and a lot of our producers around the merits of Australian wine.
(06:58):
And it was over there that I actually really sort of ignited the sustainability side.
I was working with an organization called Ulumba at the time,
and we won, was the first Australian to win a very notable global sustainability
award over there for the work that we were doing.
And I think that just really sort of ignited a light within me to go,
(07:19):
okay, there's more to wine than just enjoying it, which, frankly,
you're wrong, is an amazing thing to do.
I love a glass of wine. But given it's an agricultural industry and it's also
a very social industry, how do those two worlds sort of combine?
And then I left the US in 2016 to return back to Australia. And shortly after
that, I joined Australian Vintage, the company I am with now.
(07:39):
And I was leading the premium brand portfolio there globally and bringing sort
of a lot of, I guess, purpose into the brands I was working on and how we could
make them more sustainable,
how we could really enrich that storytelling and how we could sort of really
grow these brands, but connect with our consumers to give them something more than just beverage.
And then probably a couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to move out of
(08:03):
the brand team and into sustainability, which is where I am now.
And it's been a wonderful transition for me. I think having had the background
of marketing and communications and really sort of understanding those consumer
insights and having that global viewpoint.
It's been really really good to sort of bring that passion that I sort of spoke
(08:24):
about from my own personal side.
And then also sort of how we sort of bring that into the hearts and minds of
consumers, our customers, and also our other stakeholders.
So yeah, that's how I am where I am now. That's a rollicking journey around the world. I love that.
And I'm curious, I mean, so when you were in the US, and I remember Yolumba,
(08:47):
that's a good old iconic wine.
You talked about coming Coming back to Australia and leading the brand portfolio
and starting to think about sustainability.
Around that time. Was that as a result of your experience in the US?
Were they doing stuff there? Because it seems quite early.
(09:09):
Yeah, I mean, not anything specific. I think the US is a little bit more advanced
than Australia is in a lot of ways.
Things like the B Corp movement are definitely very much there.
You're seeing a lot of innovation in packaging, the way consumers have spoken
to about sustainability and even sort of organizations like Whole Foods and
things like that, that are only stopping, you know, organization,
(09:33):
other brands, I should say that, you know, either purpose-led brands or organic
or, you know, being a bit more responsible and the consumer actively seeking
out and willing to pay more money for those to shop in a place like Whole Foods effectively.
So I think that there was, I was, an awareness was building,
but it probably wasn't a specific thing that I was like, okay,
(09:54):
I'm going to come back to Australia and really target in on sustainability.
I think it was a good few years. It was probably another sort of four or so
years before the opportunity to really sort of focus in on that.
And that really just came about with the company that I'm working with.
We decided that sustainability was going to become a core business pillar within
(10:15):
our organization. And when was that?
What year was This was a couple of years ago, so probably around 2022,
I'd say, about that time.
And that was really driven by our CEO and board.
They'd seen the opportunity that sustainability was presenting and the requirement
that was coming down the line, whether it was regulatory or our investors were interested in it.
(10:40):
And also from a, I think an organizational risk point of view as well,
you know, it's, you can't deny that climate change is a real thing,
that it's incredibly important.
It's a very hot topic and it's important to staff and people that you're employing as well.
So that, along with a couple of other key business pillars, you know,
when we talk about growth and people, sustainability is sitting,
(11:03):
sitting right there at the forefront of our our organisation and operates as
an umbrella across our organisation as a result.
It's a really, really exciting time to be able to make that transition and really
be involved in leading that change and really start embedding sustainability
across our organisation.
And how wonderful that it started with the CEO and board and,
(11:26):
you know, that their decision rather than you or someone else having to actually
make that case, which a lot of people are doing.
There There are a lot of purpose champions in organisations who are trying to
figure out a way to make change happen.
But to have that immediately at a leadership level is amazing.
(11:46):
Absolutely amazing. Yeah, really, really amazing and very forward thinking of our leadership.
It does make it a lot, lot easier if you've got that buy-in from the top.
It makes, you know, implementing it and sort of embedding it throughout the
organisation so much easier.
So before we get into the B Corp story of Australian Vintage,
(12:09):
can you just give our listeners a view of who Australian Vintage is?
What are the brands that they'd recognise? Yeah.
So Australian Vintage, we are one of the largest wine and drinks producers here
in Australia, but we are globally sold.
So we have got brands such as McGuigan, Tempest 2, Nepenthe,
(12:29):
Ross Valley Wine Company, who who some of your listeners may know.
Within our portfolio. And then we also do a lot of new and upcoming low and
no brands as well. So when we talk about no and low, that's no and low alcohol.
And so we've got brands like Not Guilty, which is a no alcohol brand that you
may see in your supermarket.
(12:49):
And we've got wonderful things like Tempus One, which is a wine spritzer that
is low alcohol and also sort of intended for that occasion-based drinking where you can have,
you know, it's served in an aluminium can, single serve
that's very easy if you're going for a picnic or you're
at a music festival or something like that so with australian vintage
we a company that has our own vineyards we also
(13:11):
work with esteemed growers we have our own bottling and also winery facility
within the region here in australia and then we also have our own distribution
team here in the uk as well but also work with third party so we have touch
points throughout our entire value chain from what we call from grape to glass.
And yeah, as a result, we're really driving hard to be one of the leaders in
(13:35):
making great quality wine.
And we sort of talk about we're in the business to make wine that is truly good.
So not just what's in the glass, but everything that surrounds it.
Yeah, I love that. And just to give some context as well, Australian Vintage
is a public company, yes?
Publicly listed? Correct, yeah. We are publicly listed on the Australian Stock
(13:56):
Exchange. range. So am I right in understanding that it's the only publicly
listed Australian wine B Corp?
We're not the only publicly listed B Corp here in Australia. I think there's 13 or 14.
But yes, we're only one of three B Corps within the wine industry.
The other two are great brands on the smaller scale.
(14:17):
So the fact that we are a listed organization and also B Corp is phenomenal.
We're really, really proud of that. I believe there's only 60 publicly listed
B Corp's or thereabouts globally.
And so it is a little bit more challenging to gain B Corp status when you are
publicly listed, because obviously the role you play in favour of your shareholders,
(14:39):
and B Corp has, you know, it really underpins thinking about stakeholders.
And it's so that shift from having a shareholder focus to a stakeholder focus. Yeah, absolutely.
So B Corp certification happened just recently, didn't it?
Yes, we certified in February of this year. That's amazing. And again,
just to give a little bit more context, because I'm really excited for people.
(15:00):
There are a lot of small micro B Corps.
What is the size of Australian Vintage? Like in terms of number of employees, for example?
We have just shy of 500 employees globally. Okay. Okay. So fairly significant.
Yeah. Brilliant. And I'm trying to set the scene here because B Corp,
like mine is a micro business and the cause effect is B Corp certified.
(15:24):
And I know how hard it was for a tiny little business like mine to do it.
But so to do it for, you know, companies, it's hard enough for small companies.
So for companies of your size, it is a real, it is a real feat to be able to
do it. And I think it's something you should be really proud of.
So what I'd love you to share is actually just first of all,
(15:47):
what is Australian Vintage's purpose?
Well, when we sort of talk about our purpose is we really referring to,
I guess, we talk about making the world a smaller place through sharing good times.
Wine at the end of the day is really, it's an enjoyment product.
It's an engaged, it creates memories. It's a way of sharing a moment or celebrating an occasion.
(16:11):
And so we really want to do that by celebrating those moments.
However, we sort of also talk about the fact that we are in the business of
making wine that is good and wine that is truly good.
And so wrapped up within sharing those
good times is in the knowledge that we need to
be looking after the planet and the people where
(16:31):
we operate as well because we're not going to have a
brand or a or a company tomorrow unless we
do that if people are thriving then
the planet's thriving then they're drinking good wine and you
know we're making a smaller place the world a smaller place as a result so those
sort of things all hold hands with each other you know we've always said that
we put the consumer at the heart of everything we So we're really sort of thinking
(16:55):
about what our stakeholder base is looking for, like how do they want to consume our products,
ensuring that we're giving them an opportunity to have great quality products.
Beverage and you know at the end of the day people want to
be spending their money on something that they feel is is
really good quality and because there's thousands of wines
(17:15):
that they could be purchasing out there why choose ours but i
think for us it's really around ensuring that
we have a foundation of impact and we're
being very purposeful in what we're putting out there and
how we're how we're growing our organization we're
really wanting to showcase the fact
(17:35):
that that we are a for-profit organization and
we are a business for good at
scale as well and that is possible so we
can consider our shareholders and ensure that we're providing a
positive return to them but at the same time we're looking after our vineyards
to ensure that we're leaving them in a better place than they were yes like
(17:57):
yesterday and that will give us better quality grapes which will give us better
quality wine which will give our consumers what they desire that leads back
to sharing those good times and making great wine.
And we're looking after our staff within our organization to ensure that they're
thriving, whether that's through benefits or through leave or the way we sort
of flexibility within our organization.
(18:19):
And it's looking at our supply chain as well and ensuring that we're working
with the best partners to deliver our quality products into the hands of our consumers as well.
I love that. And I love all the leadership that That is packed within what you've just talked about,
because you are looking at all of your stakeholders and you're looking at creating
(18:40):
win-win outcomes for everybody.
And you talked earlier about risk and, you know, you're really looking at making
Australian vintage a viable proposition for the future,
you know, not just the short-term future, but the long-term future,
along with, you know, all the stakeholders that are part of that journey.
(19:02):
So, I think it's absolutely amazing. Now, Penelope, you led the B Corp certification journey.
So, I want to ask you, first of all, when did you start the process?
Yeah, so we sort of kicked off our B impact assessment in around November 2022.
(19:22):
And so, whilst I was, I guess, led the project, I can by no mean take credit for it.
It was a company-wide. it involved a lot of people across our organization globally
to complete the assessment whether i'm not sure if your listeners know but it
is an incredibly rigorous assessment.
And australian vintage we feel it's the gold class of sustainability and and the fact that it is a,
(19:45):
holistically looks at your organization across five key impact areas being the
environment, governance, workers, community, and customers.
When you're sort of considering your entire supply chain, you
really need to be working collaboratively with so many stakeholders internally
and also stakeholders externally as well to ensure that you have all the information
(20:10):
you require and you really have a very clear understanding of what position
your organization is in.
And so, yeah, we sort of really, really buckled down.
And from about November 2022 to, I think we submitted our assessment in July
of 23 and certified by February of 24.
(20:32):
So it was a pretty quick turnaround time, but that's also just credit to the
people within my organization and how people just really jumped in with both
feet and helped to ensure that we had all the the necessary information,
our business was in the best possible position it could be, and we had everything,
(20:52):
we had done everything we possibly could before we submitted.
And I'm going to ask you about some of the key features, if you like,
that made up the certification score, the things that you're doing.
But before I do, I want to ask you about the process.
Process and you know you talked about how you
(21:13):
you know it was the whole company globally and people from all over the company
and external stakeholders as well but that process of collaboration on on the
certification project how did you find it personally and how did you find like.
(21:33):
Did it have an effect on the business in a team sense?
Yeah, I think it did. I think, you know, it was something that we spoke loudly and proudly about.
The process really came back to getting that initial buy-in from our board and executive team.
You know, they were very much a part of it. We needed their involvement from
(21:53):
the start to give us the go-ahead because B Corp does require a constitutional
change if you are successful.
And so once that was in place, we then actually put together an internal sustainability
committee that helped us with like sort of an initial fact-finding exercise.
And they were like passionate champions from across our organization that gave
(22:14):
their time outside of their day jobs to really help us to understand those initial
gaps that we may have, where we need to close, what are the opportunities.
What's low-hanging fruit versus like what is the long-term that we need to look at.
And so I think for us
that like the process was very much
like this is something we're going after our CEO had
(22:36):
spoken to the market and our investors about it so they knew that we were looking
at this we weren't shying away from the fact that we were chasing B Corp certification
so we really went hard on it and we were like okay we're going to do this let's
look at what we've got where where is Where's our foundation and where we need to improve?
I think the wonderful thing that during that process was that our organization
(22:58):
was in a really great place.
It wasn't like we had to dramatically change a lot of what we were already doing.
And I think for a publicly listed organization of our size and the fact that
we were formed being a traditional business as opposed to forming using the B Corp framework.
That's something to be really, really proud of. And I think that's something
(23:19):
that, you know, from our leadership to the heads of department,
to our individual team members that are coming in now and asking,
could we look at it this way?
And that it just sort of shows that our business is really open to change and
improvement, which is really exciting because that's effectively what BCOP's all about, right?
It's that continual improvement and looking to say, this is where we are,
(23:43):
but we're not, you know, BAU, that's not set and forget.
We want to keep improving and we will find the path in order to do that.
So it was a process that was intense and involved a lot of people and a lot
of questions, but it was super collaborative people.
I don't think there was anybody within the organization that was like,
I don't have time for this. I think everyone saw the benefit.
(24:05):
Everyone felt collective pride in when we were successful.
And I think it really sort of sets an intention for Australian Vintage that
we are serious about our impact and what we can do.
And we're really looking at it from a long-term view. We're not just looking at it for today.
Can I just say, I've got goosebumps as your speaker, seriously,
(24:27):
because you know, the fact that you said that your organisation was in a great
place before this process.
So many things that we do are driven by pain. The need to move,
you know, I no longer want to be in this position, whatever that position is.
So I need to do something in order to change it.
It goes back to love, doesn't it? Love of people and planet.
(24:50):
Because this was not driven by pain. This was driven by a number of things,
but ultimately a desire to be a better business.
Absolutely. Yeah. A better business and how we show up for all our stakeholders.
How do we be better for our staff?
How do we be better for our customers, our consumers, our suppliers, our investors?
You know, we're really looking at that because we see value in that.
(25:13):
You know, we can create stakeholder value.
By simply looking at how we operate. You know, we're a for-profit business.
That's not going to change. We're a growth-driven business.
But if we can do that with a view of purpose and impact, so we are being better
today for more profitable and future-proofing tomorrow, then that's a good thing.
(25:38):
Absolutely. And being a for-profit business as well is, like, that's not a bad thing.
That's what, you know, allows employment, investment, you know,
And the ability to scale the good impact that you're having as well.
So, yeah, I love that. I love that. And we started this chat with you talking
about passion, collaboration and curiosity.
(26:01):
And I felt those themes just pop through as you were talking about,
you know, going through this process with the people because it was,
you know, it was all about collaboration.
You spoke about how people were doing this outside of their work hours,
which that takes It's passion, right?
And curiosity, like you talked about the intensity of the process and you need
(26:25):
curiosity to lean into that.
(26:56):
Can you share a story of a huge barrier that you overcame?
I'm sure there were many, but what was something that was a win for you that
you just went, yes, we've managed to achieve that, apart from the whole certification itself?
I was going to say, the certification itself is over 200 questions and just
(27:17):
looking at that, the point scores and all those sort of things and just looking
and being like, we're never going to make it to 80 points.
It's like this is going to be – golly, there was one specific barrier that we had because,
like I said, I was really fortunate in that I had business buy-in from leadership
through and that passion of individuals and teams that really wanted to participate.
(27:41):
I think the biggest barrier was just ensuring that we could,
if we were successful, that we could continue to improve and that we could ensure
that we could live up to the standards of B Corp.
You know, one barrier that we're yet to pass is our constitution change.
(28:03):
So we're looking at that in our November AGM, which is something that our shareholders
will have to vote on. And so that's our next hurdle that we really need to get
through, which I have absolute confidence that it will pass.
There's any shareholders listening.
And that is about mission lock, is it? The constitutional change. Yeah, that's true.
(28:23):
Yeah. So that's effectively embedding the consideration of all stakeholders
into our constitution, really sort of considering environmental and social impact where we operate.
They're probably the biggest, I mean, I can't think of anything right right
off the top of my head, that was like a really powerful.
Really big barrier beyond just the
sheer enormity and the rigor of the
(28:46):
actual certification and just I think the
biggest challenges moving forward and that continuous improvement and what that
looks like around how we embed purpose across our organization how we being
more circular in our activities how do we start using regenerative agriculture
within our vineyards what are we doing about packaging?
(29:07):
How do we collaborate with industry as well to innovate? I think they're going
to be the bigger challenges moving forward as opposed to the actual process to get to B Corp.
Yeah, let's revel in the moment of getting to B Corp for a moment,
getting that certification for a moment.
And can you put a little bit of flesh on in terms of what you are doing?
(29:29):
What are some of the things you are doing that have enabled you to earn that B Corp certification?
Certification i think for us you know one
of the things we're very proud of is our sustainable wine growing australia
certification we took it with everything
we do we take the view that we need to get our house
in order first before we ask any of our partners to to
(29:50):
participate and so for us sustainable wine growing australia is probably the
gold standard of sustainable bitter culture and in a culture it is a third party
certification and it is something that we We had the goal of getting all our
owned and leased sites certified by the end of last year, which we were successful in.
But by vintage of this year, which is around the February period,
(30:14):
we had a goal of about 50% of our growers, our third-party growers, to also be certified.
We're really proud to say that we had over 80% of our growers certified by Vintage24.
Wow, that's amazing.
Yeah, which is great. So I think for us, it was a really great process of utilizing
(30:35):
the B Corp framework around how we can support and educate our partners.
Because if everyone wins, then it just makes a much, much better situation for all.
And so we really worked with them around seeing the benefits of this certification
and how it could help them provide clarity and confidence in the grapes that
(30:59):
they're growing and the practices that they're doing.
And that also helps us because, you know, in order to put Sustainable Wine Growing
Australia on your bottles, at least 85% of the fruit needs to be certified from certified vineyards.
And so I think for us, that was like a huge, a huge opportunity that we were
able to put within our certification and showing that not just looking tunnel
(31:19):
vision around what Australian Vintage is doing, but the impact and support and
education that we can have within our ecosystem.
We're on track to transition to 100% renewable energy this year.
So we'll be powered, all our owned and leased sites will be powered by 100%
renewables, which is super exciting.
We've done a lot of work in our packaging, which we know is one of our emissions hotspots.
So how how we're innovating in this space to reduce weight, increase recyclability.
(31:44):
Increase recycled content in our packaging.
That's resulted in about 1.5 million kilos of glass being taken out of our supply chain.
We've removed over 42,000 kilos of plastic that was destined for landfill. Wow.
You know, we've transitioned wherever possible to 100% recycled content,
cartons and paper stocks on our bottles.
(32:07):
Our marketing team's looking at ways of innovating different pack formats that
will give the consumer an opportunity to enjoy our wines, but also moderate.
So instead of one of the biggest challenges we have in wine is that it comes
in a 750 ml bottle. Sometimes people just want a glass.
So how do we sort of give them that opportunity so they can still enjoy, but also moderate?
(32:31):
And talking about that, we work with companies here in Australia.
We work with Drinkwise very closely and in the UK, Community Alcohol Park Ships.
That is really all around responsible enjoyment of alcohol.
So, you know, we understand that we are in alcohol and it is something that
we're proud of and we want people to be able to enjoy it, but we want them to
(32:53):
be enjoying it responsibly.
So working with organizations like that enables our voice to travel further.
And it also ensures that we're partnering with the gold standard,
you know, companies is that give confidence in what we do and why we do it.
So they're probably just a couple of things that we've been doing that we're
really excited about. That's fantastic.
And you talked about supply chain and I recall interviewing Nikki Sparshott
(33:19):
when she was CEO of Unilever Australia, New Zealand. She's now Global Chief
Transformation Officer.
And I remember she talked about the work they did with their suppliers as they
went through B Corp certification.
Diversification and and you know
she said it was such an interesting process because some suppliers were
really leaned into the innovation opportunity and
(33:42):
you know they were right in there and she knew they were you know they were
they were definitely part of the team and then other suppliers who were like
not not interested at all and you know they found a respectful way to end that
relationship and bring others in.
And I feel like the whole process, when you go through a process like this,
(34:07):
is one that really strengthens your identity.
You know, it gives you clarity on the good things you're already doing and the
things you want to improve and do more of and get better at.
And it all comes back to...
Who you are. So who you are, that unique organizational identity,
(34:32):
which connects with people's individual identity of who they are.
And the stories we tell ourselves about what matters to us, and that applies to suppliers as well.
So I wanted to pick that bit up and ask you, did you find that sense of identity
becoming clearer as you went through that process?
(34:54):
Yes, I think we were able to sort of look at our supply chain and go,
okay, these are people that are our people because we're on a journey ourselves.
We're not expecting anyone to be perfect today because we are far from it.
I think for us, we're really honest in the fact that this is where we are. This is our intention.
We're intending on being more impactful and being more purpose-driven.
(35:17):
And we're found by having those really open and collaborative conversations
that provides a forum where you can invite people in and understand what their
position is and what their aspirations are as well.
And because for us, we have a net zero 2040 goal and that's across all three scopes.
(35:37):
And we can't get there unless our supply chain comes on board.
Because about 80% of our emissions sit in scope three.
And so our scope one and two is their scope three and vice versa.
So ensuring that we're working with a really collaborative, ethical and responsible
supply chain into the future is going to be really crucial for us.
(35:58):
So we're at the start of that.
And much like what I was saying around our sustainable wine growing Australia
process, we want to make sure that we've got our house in order before we're asking other people.
But I think what's been really great is that the conversations we've had is
that people have been really open to understanding why we're asking what we're
(36:20):
asking and what role that they play in that.
Because everyone's at different stages. We have some suppliers that are really
gung-ho and we have others that haven't even looked at it.
And we have some really, really big suppliers and we have some little mum and pop suppliers as well.
So it's being respectful of understanding where they are and what we require.
(36:40):
And so I think it's that, it's certainly that conversation piece and inviting people in,
and really sharing what the value is and how it can improve their business and
together we are better as a result.
And it seems to me that, like I get it, you're not looking for perfection from
(37:04):
your suppliers. It's more...
Who is willing to come on this journey with us, this journey of improvement and innovation?
And for me, one of the things that it suggests to me is it also moves the supplier
relationship from, I'm not talking about Australian vintage specifically,
(37:25):
but generally from one that's more transactional to one that's more relational.
Absolutely. But we're in it together. I think you said we're in it together.
And it's like, yeah, how do we work together to make this happen?
And that can only strengthen your relationships. And, you know,
that can only be a good thing. I 100% agree.
And I sort of feel like that's a real positive around how business is sort of
(37:49):
transitioning now rather than, you know, as you say, transactional relationship,
how can you form a lasting relationship that looks to the future and you grow
and develop and change and innovate together?
And that's what we're really sort of looking for is having a tight group
network of suppliers that we can really
(38:09):
do that with we're not big enough we're not a coca-cola or
anything like that that can really have you know
huge transformation and innovation and but we're wanting to participate so there
is we do still have a role within that and we are still a company of scale so
having those conversations understanding what's available to us and how we can
(38:30):
collaborate with suppliers or how we can collaborate with other industry partners.
Is how we sort of see our role as a certified B Corp and also as a company that
chooses to be impactful, being a horse for good.
And a company that chooses to be impactful.
Yeah, there is so much inspiration to be gained from what you guys are doing,
(38:59):
and I love that it's a story
of improvement and it's a story of innovation and collaboration and curiosity
and come and join us and let's do this together.
And it's a story of the future as well, a story of us into the future, which is amazing.
So we talked a little bit about the for-profit side, but this is the For Love and Money podcast.
(39:22):
So I wanted to get your thoughts on the balance of profit and purpose,
bringing the money side into the equation because you are a significantly sized company,
you're global, you do have a responsibility to your shareholders and you need
to be profitable to achieve what you want to achieve.
(39:44):
So how would you balance out the profit-purpose relationship?
Yeah, I mean, I like to think they really hold hands with each other.
I think a purpose lens can really increase stakeholder value and decrease organisational risk.
It's not always that black and white, though. You know, we are a for-profit
organization, and I think sometimes people think purpose or sustainability just costs money.
(40:08):
There's like, there's no upside to it. So I think when we look at things that
are purpose-driven and impact-driven, it's really around...
What's the commercial benefit of that? And we've already realized a lot of that,
you know, with our just looking at packaging, for example, that sort of,
that really started as a commercial benefit.
Like if we could look at our packaging to decrease the amount of options that
(40:33):
we had, that resulted in decreasing in weight, decreasing in emissions and removing
1.5 kilos of glass weight out of our supply chain.
So that had a positive that we weren't
having to manage so many different types of stock 1.5 million
kilos i think you forgot the million in that oh apologies
1.5 apologies yeah 1.5 kilos
(40:55):
so we saw some real commercial benefits there and so i think for the way we
look at we look at purposes okay it's almost like what's the risk of inaction
as well so if we don't look at that there's like huge regulations and compliance
that is coming down down the line,
you know, that is going to be unavoidable.
So, you know, companies need to ready themselves now. You can't stick your head in the sand.
(41:19):
So there's that. We know that climate change is a huge issue.
We know that consumers and staff are looking for companies that are purpose-driven
and that are impact-driven.
So if you're not actively looking at this, you're missing out and you're potentially
leaving yourself open for problems further down the track. So when we look at
(41:41):
purpose, you know, we're really proud about where we stand.
We talk about across our employee value proposition, our ESG position.
So when people are looking at coming and working with our organisation.
That they know that they're working with an organisation that is certified VCORP,
that we're looking at it after our staff with benefits, whether it's paternity
(42:01):
leave or birthday leave.
We've now put in aid volunteer leave as well. So our staff can go and impact,
have positive impact in communities where they live.
Those sort of things, I think, creates a workplace where people are proud to
show up and proud to work harder.
And therefore, that makes you much more profitable. You're not turning over staff. You're not.
(42:22):
Having people just clocking in and clocking out, they're passionate about being there.
And then, you know, as well, we know people are looking to invest in organizations
that are much more purpose-driven.
So by us looking at how we can be more impactful and purpose-driven,
that also attracts a different investor set too.
So there's all these positive points that you can gain from being purpose-driven.
(42:46):
Again, we're not pretending like we're the most sustainable organization out
there or or anything like that.
But we're really proud of the progress we've made and really holding ourselves
accountable to where we're going.
And, you know, B Corp certification makes you do that.
You know, we're using the B Corp framework to shape our strategy and our key
(43:09):
priorities into the future and our key projects that we're looking at.
Our net zero 2040 goal, you know,
really looks at how we're going to be decreasing our emissions across our value chain,
but also ensure that we're creating an environment
for people to thrive where the communities where we operate
both internally and externally and then
(43:30):
also having very transparent and responsible accountability and reporting so
our growth can be tracked because if you can't measure it doesn't really matter
then so like you know we want to make sure that we're measuring our impact and
we're talking about it and you know we're also okay with saying hey,
we wanted to do that, but it's changed now.
(43:50):
So we're looking at this and holding ourselves accountable to what we're doing
and what we're saying and where we want to be and hopefully taking a bit of
a leadership position in that and inspiring other people within our industry
and beyond to also have a crack.
And not everyone has to chase the E-Corp certification, but if they can just
look at their organisation and how they operate.
(44:11):
They too could probably find opportunities to have uplifts and commercial benefits
enable innovation and also create a much more profitable yet purposeful organisation.
I love that on so many levels. And I think, you know, you've taken us through
the stakeholder lens, the perspectives, and, you know, I think this idea that purpose...
(44:36):
Costs money, it's purpose or profit, you know, it's a trade-off,
is just very lazy thinking, you know, and the process you've gone through shows
the commercial benefits.
You're looking at the commercial benefits of everything you do.
And so when you say, hopefully, you know, this will be inspiration,
(44:58):
our leadership is inspiration, I'd take the hopefully out of it,
your leadership in this is absolute inspiration.
And so I'd ask you for leaders in companies that are considering the B Corp
journey, what words of advice would you have for them? Jump in with both B.
Just have a crack. I think the worst that can happen is that you have a really
(45:20):
clear understanding of where your baseline is and you'll hopefully be inspired
by the growth and the opportunities that you can see.
I think with us, like I said, it brought our organisation together.
We saw huge engagement from our team.
Now that we are certified, we're getting amazing engagement from our external
(45:41):
stakeholders, our customers, our investors.
It's giving us a great USP to
talk to as well. We're super proud of being part of the B Corp community.
It's an awesome community. It's so collaborative. collaborative people
are people are wanting to work with you and share and
and i think that's super super exciting and so
(46:01):
whether b corp is possible for your organization just simply
looking at the framework and sort of the metrics that they use to be a purpose-driven
organization i think is can be hugely beneficial to to any organization no matter
what your industry or size is yeah brilliant and and i'll i'll include a link
to b corp australia and new zealand and in the show notes.
(46:24):
And I also encourage anyone who isn't a B Corp and is interested to come along to one of the events.
They're open, not just to B Corts. It's very inclusive and find out,
come and learn a little bit about it.
Penelope, it has been an absolute pleasure to speak with you and to learn about
(46:44):
this journey and to learn about what Australian Vintage are doing and to learn
about your leadership in this space because it is absolutely leadership.
And, yeah, I'm really excited to get this episode out and live so people can be inspired by it.
I'm going to ask you to close out the
(47:06):
show with your dream Penelope's
dream so you know five years from now in your wildest dreams let's be ambitious
okay what do you hope can be achieved and this could be through the lens of
Australian vintage it could be a worldwide lens it's your dream so So it's up to you what it is.
(47:29):
Oh, thank you, Carolyn. That's such a great question. I guess my training would
be that I would see businesses really collaborating together for a long-term
view to be how can the power of many really provide transformative change.
And rather than just hearing all the bad news and things like that that are
(47:51):
out there, They're taking the brains,
the organization skills, the innovation that's out there to really do some cool
stuff that shakes the boat, that doesn't, that questions how business is done,
how people show up, and to do some really just cool stuff.
I'd love to see that and that people speaking about it and shouting about it,
(48:15):
not, you know, we talk about greenwashing, but there's this green hushing as well.
So like how do we use the collective voice to really get out there and be like,
you know, we're going to have some real great impact to ensure that people on planet thrive.
So what that looks like, I don't know. But I think it could,
there's some real excitement by that.
(48:35):
And that's why I'm driven to get up out of bed every day because I'm super excited
about what I do and the impact I can have as an individual.
But what we can do with many, I think can be super, super exciting.
And I think the role that business plays within that in enabling that to scale
and to really show up and involve people, I think is super exciting.
(49:00):
Beautiful dream. Thank you, Penelope. Thanks so much, Carolyn. I appreciate your time.
Music.
Penelope Goodsall is a passionate and purpose-driven business leader with over
15 years of global expertise in brand strategy and communications.
As Australian Vintage's Sustainability Manager, Penelope is responsible for
leading the Global ESG, Environmental, Social and Governance strategy,
setting the roadmap to deliver net zero absolute reduction across all scopes
(00:37):
by 2040, delivering positive environmental and social impact and,
ensuring purposeful growth and transparent reporting.
Incorporating sustainable business practices across the organisation to mitigate
risks and enhance stakeholder value, she's committed to using business as a force for good.
(00:57):
Now, this dedication saw Australian Vintage become BCOR certified in February
2024, ensuring long-term commitment to transparency, accountability and purpose-driven business.
Business australian vintage is the
company behind wine labels like tempest
2 nepenthe mcguigan wines barossa
(01:20):
valley wine company the shy pig not guilty
and many more in our interview penelope
shares australian vintage's groundbreaking shift towards sustainability guided
by a forward thinking ceo and board in 2022 we explore the influences behind
this strategic move and she She walks us through the company's full-scale involvement
(01:43):
in the wine production value chain,
their innovative low and no alcohol products, and their B Corp certification.
We also explore the significant commercial benefits of being purpose-driven,
from increased employee engagement to attracting like-minded investors.
There is indeed more to good wine, and if you can enjoy a good wine while listening
(02:08):
to this episode, all the merrier.
Penelope, welcome to the For Love and Money podcast. Thank you for joining us.
Thank you for having me, Carolyn. It's wonderful to be here.
So I wonder if you could give us your opinion on the first question I ask every
guest, which is, in your view, does love have a role in business?
It's such a great question. I can't see how it doesn't. It's such a powerful emotion.
(02:34):
And given that we spend at least a third of our life at work.
I think love does come into business, but I think it's really around what sort
of form it takes within business.
So people talk about, you must love what you do, you must love where you work
and love who you work with. And I think that is really true.
(02:54):
For me, certainly when I'm with an organization, all of those things matter to me.
But I think what we're really starting to see now is the power of love in the
form of passion and how that sort of shows up at work.
And I think that's really wonderful to see because we're getting people that
are now not just working to earn a paycheck,
they're working to really have impact and to show up and be involved and create change or innovate.
(03:21):
And whether we're seeing that through the world of entrepreneurs or people that
are doing things really differently and questioning the way business has always been done,
I think that love is coming through in the way people are thinking about how
business is done, how they work with other people, and how that collaboration
can really create something wonderful.
(03:43):
Thank you for that. And it sounds like you speak from direct experience about
that passion for your work and what you do and who you work with.
And I'm really looking forward to getting into the conversation about Australian
Vintage and your recent B Corp certification and how that has inspired more
(04:05):
passion within because it's all about the energy you bring, isn't it?
But at the end of the day, you know, as employees and other stakeholders,
it's about, you know, how energized you are by the mission of the organization
and by your role and what you're contributing to.
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I think, you know.
(04:26):
Passionate or passion is contagious. So if someone shows up and they're really
passionate, people will be inspired by that person.
They'll want to listen to that person. They'll want to follow that person.
And I think it also breeds curiosity as well.
So I think when someone's passionate, they're often open and inviting and enables
other people to sort of join in.
(04:47):
And it has this wonderful way of igniting conversation and collaboration.
And so I think, yeah, there's a lot to be said for passion and how that can
empower the individual, but also create collective change within an organization.
Love it, love it, love it. Passion, collaboration, curiosity.
(05:09):
These are going to be juicy themes today. I just absolutely know it.
So tell us a bit about Penelope. Give us your background story.
Dory, just, you know, what are the key moments in your life that you think have
brought you here to what you are doing today with Australian Vintage?
Holly, it's been a bit of a random winding road.
(05:32):
I'm originally from Sydney. I've always been someone who has really been curious
by the natural world and, you know, been a great animal lover and a great traveller.
And I think the people within the world and the cultures have always been something
that I've been very, very interested in.
And so once I finished high school, I did what a lot of Aussies do and moved
(05:54):
to the UK and sort of really had that time to really sort of try and figure
out what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go.
I wasn't that sort of kid that left school and thought, oh my gosh,
I know exactly what I'm going to do when I leave school. I was kind of like, what am I going to do?
And I think having that opportunity was amazing because I got to see the world
and meet a whole bunch of people outside of my little bubble.
(06:15):
And I sort of found my way into the
the wine world through working in gorgeous restaurants and
you know traveling to France and things like that which was great and then came
back to South Australia to study and found my obviously being in South Australia
wine's a big part of the culture and the industry down there and really sort
(06:36):
of spent a lot of time in you know the The branding side of wine,
I did some time in sales, communications before my career sort of took me overseas
and I ended up in the US and spent a lot of time over there promoting Australian wine,
working with government and media and a lot of our producers around the merits of Australian wine.
(06:58):
And it was over there that I actually really sort of ignited the sustainability side.
I was working with an organization called Ulumba at the time,
and we won, was the first Australian to win a very notable global sustainability
award over there for the work that we were doing.
And I think that just really sort of ignited a light within me to go,
(07:19):
okay, there's more to wine than just enjoying it, which, frankly,
you're wrong, is an amazing thing to do.
I love a glass of wine. But given it's an agricultural industry and it's also
a very social industry, how do those two worlds sort of combine?
And then I left the US in 2016 to return back to Australia. And shortly after
that, I joined Australian Vintage, the company I am with now.
(07:39):
And I was leading the premium brand portfolio there globally and bringing sort
of a lot of, I guess, purpose into the brands I was working on and how we could
make them more sustainable,
how we could really enrich that storytelling and how we could sort of really
grow these brands, but connect with our consumers to give them something more than just beverage.
And then probably a couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to move out of
(08:03):
the brand team and into sustainability, which is where I am now.
And it's been a wonderful transition for me. I think having had the background
of marketing and communications and really sort of understanding those consumer
insights and having that global viewpoint.
It's been really really good to sort of bring that passion that I sort of spoke
(08:24):
about from my own personal side.
And then also sort of how we sort of bring that into the hearts and minds of
consumers, our customers, and also our other stakeholders.
So yeah, that's how I am where I am now. That's a rollicking journey around the world. I love that.
And I'm curious, I mean, so when you were in the US, and I remember Yolumba,
(08:47):
that's a good old iconic wine.
You talked about coming Coming back to Australia and leading the brand portfolio
and starting to think about sustainability.
Around that time. Was that as a result of your experience in the US?
Were they doing stuff there? Because it seems quite early.
(09:09):
Yeah, I mean, not anything specific. I think the US is a little bit more advanced
than Australia is in a lot of ways.
Things like the B Corp movement are definitely very much there.
You're seeing a lot of innovation in packaging, the way consumers have spoken
to about sustainability and even sort of organizations like Whole Foods and
things like that, that are only stopping, you know, organization,
(09:33):
other brands, I should say that, you know, either purpose-led brands or organic
or, you know, being a bit more responsible and the consumer actively seeking
out and willing to pay more money for those to shop in a place like Whole Foods effectively.
So I think that there was, I was, an awareness was building,
but it probably wasn't a specific thing that I was like, okay,
(09:54):
I'm going to come back to Australia and really target in on sustainability.
I think it was a good few years. It was probably another sort of four or so
years before the opportunity to really sort of focus in on that.
And that really just came about with the company that I'm working with.
We decided that sustainability was going to become a core business pillar within
(10:15):
our organization. And when was that?
What year was This was a couple of years ago, so probably around 2022,
I'd say, about that time.
And that was really driven by our CEO and board.
They'd seen the opportunity that sustainability was presenting and the requirement
that was coming down the line, whether it was regulatory or our investors were interested in it.
(10:40):
And also from a, I think an organizational risk point of view as well,
you know, it's, you can't deny that climate change is a real thing,
that it's incredibly important.
It's a very hot topic and it's important to staff and people that you're employing as well.
So that, along with a couple of other key business pillars, you know,
when we talk about growth and people, sustainability is sitting,
(11:03):
sitting right there at the forefront of our our organisation and operates as
an umbrella across our organisation as a result.
It's a really, really exciting time to be able to make that transition and really
be involved in leading that change and really start embedding sustainability
across our organisation.
And how wonderful that it started with the CEO and board and,
(11:26):
you know, that their decision rather than you or someone else having to actually
make that case, which a lot of people are doing.
There There are a lot of purpose champions in organisations who are trying to
figure out a way to make change happen.
But to have that immediately at a leadership level is amazing.
(11:46):
Absolutely amazing. Yeah, really, really amazing and very forward thinking of our leadership.
It does make it a lot, lot easier if you've got that buy-in from the top.
It makes, you know, implementing it and sort of embedding it throughout the
organisation so much easier.
So before we get into the B Corp story of Australian Vintage,
(12:09):
can you just give our listeners a view of who Australian Vintage is?
What are the brands that they'd recognise? Yeah.
So Australian Vintage, we are one of the largest wine and drinks producers here
in Australia, but we are globally sold.
So we have got brands such as McGuigan, Tempest 2, Nepenthe,
(12:29):
Ross Valley Wine Company, who who some of your listeners may know.
Within our portfolio. And then we also do a lot of new and upcoming low and
no brands as well. So when we talk about no and low, that's no and low alcohol.
And so we've got brands like Not Guilty, which is a no alcohol brand that you
may see in your supermarket.
(12:49):
And we've got wonderful things like Tempus One, which is a wine spritzer that
is low alcohol and also sort of intended for that occasion-based drinking where you can have,
you know, it's served in an aluminium can, single serve
that's very easy if you're going for a picnic or you're
at a music festival or something like that so with australian vintage
we a company that has our own vineyards we also
(13:11):
work with esteemed growers we have our own bottling and also winery facility
within the region here in australia and then we also have our own distribution
team here in the uk as well but also work with third party so we have touch
points throughout our entire value chain from what we call from grape to glass.
And yeah, as a result, we're really driving hard to be one of the leaders in
(13:35):
making great quality wine.
And we sort of talk about we're in the business to make wine that is truly good.
So not just what's in the glass, but everything that surrounds it.
Yeah, I love that. And just to give some context as well, Australian Vintage
is a public company, yes?
Publicly listed? Correct, yeah. We are publicly listed on the Australian Stock
(13:56):
Exchange. range. So am I right in understanding that it's the only publicly
listed Australian wine B Corp?
We're not the only publicly listed B Corp here in Australia. I think there's 13 or 14.
But yes, we're only one of three B Corps within the wine industry.
The other two are great brands on the smaller scale.
(14:17):
So the fact that we are a listed organization and also B Corp is phenomenal.
We're really, really proud of that. I believe there's only 60 publicly listed
B Corp's or thereabouts globally.
And so it is a little bit more challenging to gain B Corp status when you are
publicly listed, because obviously the role you play in favour of your shareholders,
(14:39):
and B Corp has, you know, it really underpins thinking about stakeholders.
And it's so that shift from having a shareholder focus to a stakeholder focus. Yeah, absolutely.
So B Corp certification happened just recently, didn't it?
Yes, we certified in February of this year. That's amazing. And again,
just to give a little bit more context, because I'm really excited for people.
(15:00):
There are a lot of small micro B Corps.
What is the size of Australian Vintage? Like in terms of number of employees, for example?
We have just shy of 500 employees globally. Okay. Okay. So fairly significant.
Yeah. Brilliant. And I'm trying to set the scene here because B Corp,
like mine is a micro business and the cause effect is B Corp certified.
(15:24):
And I know how hard it was for a tiny little business like mine to do it.
But so to do it for, you know, companies, it's hard enough for small companies.
So for companies of your size, it is a real, it is a real feat to be able to
do it. And I think it's something you should be really proud of.
So what I'd love you to share is actually just first of all,
(15:47):
what is Australian Vintage's purpose?
Well, when we sort of talk about our purpose is we really referring to,
I guess, we talk about making the world a smaller place through sharing good times.
Wine at the end of the day is really, it's an enjoyment product.
It's an engaged, it creates memories. It's a way of sharing a moment or celebrating an occasion.
(16:11):
And so we really want to do that by celebrating those moments.
However, we sort of also talk about the fact that we are in the business of
making wine that is good and wine that is truly good.
And so wrapped up within sharing those
good times is in the knowledge that we need to
be looking after the planet and the people where
(16:31):
we operate as well because we're not going to have a
brand or a or a company tomorrow unless we
do that if people are thriving then
the planet's thriving then they're drinking good wine and you
know we're making a smaller place the world a smaller place as a result so those
sort of things all hold hands with each other you know we've always said that
we put the consumer at the heart of everything we So we're really sort of thinking
(16:55):
about what our stakeholder base is looking for, like how do they want to consume our products,
ensuring that we're giving them an opportunity to have great quality products.
Beverage and you know at the end of the day people want to
be spending their money on something that they feel is is
really good quality and because there's thousands of wines
(17:15):
that they could be purchasing out there why choose ours but i
think for us it's really around ensuring that
we have a foundation of impact and we're
being very purposeful in what we're putting out there and
how we're how we're growing our organization we're
really wanting to showcase the fact
(17:35):
that that we are a for-profit organization and
we are a business for good at
scale as well and that is possible so we
can consider our shareholders and ensure that we're providing a
positive return to them but at the same time we're looking after our vineyards
to ensure that we're leaving them in a better place than they were yes like
(17:57):
yesterday and that will give us better quality grapes which will give us better
quality wine which will give our consumers what they desire that leads back
to sharing those good times and making great wine.
And we're looking after our staff within our organization to ensure that they're
thriving, whether that's through benefits or through leave or the way we sort
of flexibility within our organization.
(18:19):
And it's looking at our supply chain as well and ensuring that we're working
with the best partners to deliver our quality products into the hands of our consumers as well.
I love that. And I love all the leadership that That is packed within what you've just talked about,
because you are looking at all of your stakeholders and you're looking at creating
(18:40):
win-win outcomes for everybody.
And you talked earlier about risk and, you know, you're really looking at making
Australian vintage a viable proposition for the future,
you know, not just the short-term future, but the long-term future,
along with, you know, all the stakeholders that are part of that journey.
(19:02):
So, I think it's absolutely amazing. Now, Penelope, you led the B Corp certification journey.
So, I want to ask you, first of all, when did you start the process?
Yeah, so we sort of kicked off our B impact assessment in around November 2022.
(19:22):
And so, whilst I was, I guess, led the project, I can by no mean take credit for it.
It was a company-wide. it involved a lot of people across our organization globally
to complete the assessment whether i'm not sure if your listeners know but it
is an incredibly rigorous assessment.
And australian vintage we feel it's the gold class of sustainability and and the fact that it is a,
(19:45):
holistically looks at your organization across five key impact areas being the
environment, governance, workers, community, and customers.
When you're sort of considering your entire supply chain, you
really need to be working collaboratively with so many stakeholders internally
and also stakeholders externally as well to ensure that you have all the information
(20:10):
you require and you really have a very clear understanding of what position
your organization is in.
And so, yeah, we sort of really, really buckled down.
And from about November 2022 to, I think we submitted our assessment in July
of 23 and certified by February of 24.
(20:32):
So it was a pretty quick turnaround time, but that's also just credit to the
people within my organization and how people just really jumped in with both
feet and helped to ensure that we had all the the necessary information,
our business was in the best possible position it could be, and we had everything,
(20:52):
we had done everything we possibly could before we submitted.
And I'm going to ask you about some of the key features, if you like,
that made up the certification score, the things that you're doing.
But before I do, I want to ask you about the process.
Process and you know you talked about how you
(21:13):
you know it was the whole company globally and people from all over the company
and external stakeholders as well but that process of collaboration on on the
certification project how did you find it personally and how did you find like.
(21:33):
Did it have an effect on the business in a team sense?
Yeah, I think it did. I think, you know, it was something that we spoke loudly and proudly about.
The process really came back to getting that initial buy-in from our board and executive team.
You know, they were very much a part of it. We needed their involvement from
(21:53):
the start to give us the go-ahead because B Corp does require a constitutional
change if you are successful.
And so once that was in place, we then actually put together an internal sustainability
committee that helped us with like sort of an initial fact-finding exercise.
And they were like passionate champions from across our organization that gave
(22:14):
their time outside of their day jobs to really help us to understand those initial
gaps that we may have, where we need to close, what are the opportunities.
What's low-hanging fruit versus like what is the long-term that we need to look at.
And so I think for us
that like the process was very much
like this is something we're going after our CEO had
(22:36):
spoken to the market and our investors about it so they knew that we were looking
at this we weren't shying away from the fact that we were chasing B Corp certification
so we really went hard on it and we were like okay we're going to do this let's
look at what we've got where where is Where's our foundation and where we need to improve?
I think the wonderful thing that during that process was that our organization
(22:58):
was in a really great place.
It wasn't like we had to dramatically change a lot of what we were already doing.
And I think for a publicly listed organization of our size and the fact that
we were formed being a traditional business as opposed to forming using the B Corp framework.
That's something to be really, really proud of. And I think that's something
(23:19):
that, you know, from our leadership to the heads of department,
to our individual team members that are coming in now and asking,
could we look at it this way?
And that it just sort of shows that our business is really open to change and
improvement, which is really exciting because that's effectively what BCOP's all about, right?
It's that continual improvement and looking to say, this is where we are,
(23:43):
but we're not, you know, BAU, that's not set and forget.
We want to keep improving and we will find the path in order to do that.
So it was a process that was intense and involved a lot of people and a lot
of questions, but it was super collaborative people.
I don't think there was anybody within the organization that was like,
I don't have time for this. I think everyone saw the benefit.
(24:05):
Everyone felt collective pride in when we were successful.
And I think it really sort of sets an intention for Australian Vintage that
we are serious about our impact and what we can do.
And we're really looking at it from a long-term view. We're not just looking at it for today.
Can I just say, I've got goosebumps as your speaker, seriously,
(24:27):
because you know, the fact that you said that your organisation was in a great
place before this process.
So many things that we do are driven by pain. The need to move,
you know, I no longer want to be in this position, whatever that position is.
So I need to do something in order to change it.
It goes back to love, doesn't it? Love of people and planet.
(24:50):
Because this was not driven by pain. This was driven by a number of things,
but ultimately a desire to be a better business.
Absolutely. Yeah. A better business and how we show up for all our stakeholders.
How do we be better for our staff?
How do we be better for our customers, our consumers, our suppliers, our investors?
You know, we're really looking at that because we see value in that.
(25:13):
You know, we can create stakeholder value.
By simply looking at how we operate. You know, we're a for-profit business.
That's not going to change. We're a growth-driven business.
But if we can do that with a view of purpose and impact, so we are being better
today for more profitable and future-proofing tomorrow, then that's a good thing.
(25:38):
Absolutely. And being a for-profit business as well is, like, that's not a bad thing.
That's what, you know, allows employment, investment, you know,
And the ability to scale the good impact that you're having as well.
So, yeah, I love that. I love that. And we started this chat with you talking
about passion, collaboration and curiosity.
(26:01):
And I felt those themes just pop through as you were talking about,
you know, going through this process with the people because it was,
you know, it was all about collaboration.
You spoke about how people were doing this outside of their work hours,
which that takes It's passion, right?
And curiosity, like you talked about the intensity of the process and you need
(26:25):
curiosity to lean into that.
(26:56):
Can you share a story of a huge barrier that you overcame?
I'm sure there were many, but what was something that was a win for you that
you just went, yes, we've managed to achieve that, apart from the whole certification itself?
I was going to say, the certification itself is over 200 questions and just
(27:17):
looking at that, the point scores and all those sort of things and just looking
and being like, we're never going to make it to 80 points.
It's like this is going to be – golly, there was one specific barrier that we had because,
like I said, I was really fortunate in that I had business buy-in from leadership
through and that passion of individuals and teams that really wanted to participate.
(27:41):
I think the biggest barrier was just ensuring that we could,
if we were successful, that we could continue to improve and that we could ensure
that we could live up to the standards of B Corp.
You know, one barrier that we're yet to pass is our constitution change.
(28:03):
So we're looking at that in our November AGM, which is something that our shareholders
will have to vote on. And so that's our next hurdle that we really need to get
through, which I have absolute confidence that it will pass.
There's any shareholders listening.
And that is about mission lock, is it? The constitutional change. Yeah, that's true.
(28:23):
Yeah. So that's effectively embedding the consideration of all stakeholders
into our constitution, really sort of considering environmental and social impact where we operate.
They're probably the biggest, I mean, I can't think of anything right right
off the top of my head, that was like a really powerful.
Really big barrier beyond just the
sheer enormity and the rigor of the
(28:46):
actual certification and just I think the
biggest challenges moving forward and that continuous improvement and what that
looks like around how we embed purpose across our organization how we being
more circular in our activities how do we start using regenerative agriculture
within our vineyards what are we doing about packaging?
(29:07):
How do we collaborate with industry as well to innovate? I think they're going
to be the bigger challenges moving forward as opposed to the actual process to get to B Corp.
Yeah, let's revel in the moment of getting to B Corp for a moment,
getting that certification for a moment.
And can you put a little bit of flesh on in terms of what you are doing?
(29:29):
What are some of the things you are doing that have enabled you to earn that B Corp certification?
Certification i think for us you know one
of the things we're very proud of is our sustainable wine growing australia
certification we took it with everything
we do we take the view that we need to get our house
in order first before we ask any of our partners to to
(29:50):
participate and so for us sustainable wine growing australia is probably the
gold standard of sustainable bitter culture and in a culture it is a third party
certification and it is something that we We had the goal of getting all our
owned and leased sites certified by the end of last year, which we were successful in.
But by vintage of this year, which is around the February period,
(30:14):
we had a goal of about 50% of our growers, our third-party growers, to also be certified.
We're really proud to say that we had over 80% of our growers certified by Vintage24.
Wow, that's amazing.
Yeah, which is great. So I think for us, it was a really great process of utilizing
(30:35):
the B Corp framework around how we can support and educate our partners.
Because if everyone wins, then it just makes a much, much better situation for all.
And so we really worked with them around seeing the benefits of this certification
and how it could help them provide clarity and confidence in the grapes that
(30:59):
they're growing and the practices that they're doing.
And that also helps us because, you know, in order to put Sustainable Wine Growing
Australia on your bottles, at least 85% of the fruit needs to be certified from certified vineyards.
And so I think for us, that was like a huge, a huge opportunity that we were
able to put within our certification and showing that not just looking tunnel
(31:19):
vision around what Australian Vintage is doing, but the impact and support and
education that we can have within our ecosystem.
We're on track to transition to 100% renewable energy this year.
So we'll be powered, all our owned and leased sites will be powered by 100%
renewables, which is super exciting.
We've done a lot of work in our packaging, which we know is one of our emissions hotspots.
So how how we're innovating in this space to reduce weight, increase recyclability.
(31:44):
Increase recycled content in our packaging.
That's resulted in about 1.5 million kilos of glass being taken out of our supply chain.
We've removed over 42,000 kilos of plastic that was destined for landfill. Wow.
You know, we've transitioned wherever possible to 100% recycled content,
cartons and paper stocks on our bottles.
(32:07):
Our marketing team's looking at ways of innovating different pack formats that
will give the consumer an opportunity to enjoy our wines, but also moderate.
So instead of one of the biggest challenges we have in wine is that it comes
in a 750 ml bottle. Sometimes people just want a glass.
So how do we sort of give them that opportunity so they can still enjoy, but also moderate?
(32:31):
And talking about that, we work with companies here in Australia.
We work with Drinkwise very closely and in the UK, Community Alcohol Park Ships.
That is really all around responsible enjoyment of alcohol.
So, you know, we understand that we are in alcohol and it is something that
we're proud of and we want people to be able to enjoy it, but we want them to
(32:53):
be enjoying it responsibly.
So working with organizations like that enables our voice to travel further.
And it also ensures that we're partnering with the gold standard,
you know, companies is that give confidence in what we do and why we do it.
So they're probably just a couple of things that we've been doing that we're
really excited about. That's fantastic.
And you talked about supply chain and I recall interviewing Nikki Sparshott
(33:19):
when she was CEO of Unilever Australia, New Zealand. She's now Global Chief
Transformation Officer.
And I remember she talked about the work they did with their suppliers as they
went through B Corp certification.
Diversification and and you know
she said it was such an interesting process because some suppliers were
really leaned into the innovation opportunity and
(33:42):
you know they were right in there and she knew they were you know they were
they were definitely part of the team and then other suppliers who were like
not not interested at all and you know they found a respectful way to end that
relationship and bring others in.
And I feel like the whole process, when you go through a process like this,
(34:07):
is one that really strengthens your identity.
You know, it gives you clarity on the good things you're already doing and the
things you want to improve and do more of and get better at.
And it all comes back to...
Who you are. So who you are, that unique organizational identity,
(34:32):
which connects with people's individual identity of who they are.
And the stories we tell ourselves about what matters to us, and that applies to suppliers as well.
So I wanted to pick that bit up and ask you, did you find that sense of identity
becoming clearer as you went through that process?
(34:54):
Yes, I think we were able to sort of look at our supply chain and go,
okay, these are people that are our people because we're on a journey ourselves.
We're not expecting anyone to be perfect today because we are far from it.
I think for us, we're really honest in the fact that this is where we are. This is our intention.
We're intending on being more impactful and being more purpose-driven.
(35:17):
And we're found by having those really open and collaborative conversations
that provides a forum where you can invite people in and understand what their
position is and what their aspirations are as well.
And because for us, we have a net zero 2040 goal and that's across all three scopes.
(35:37):
And we can't get there unless our supply chain comes on board.
Because about 80% of our emissions sit in scope three.
And so our scope one and two is their scope three and vice versa.
So ensuring that we're working with a really collaborative, ethical and responsible
supply chain into the future is going to be really crucial for us.
(35:58):
So we're at the start of that.
And much like what I was saying around our sustainable wine growing Australia
process, we want to make sure that we've got our house in order before we're asking other people.
But I think what's been really great is that the conversations we've had is
that people have been really open to understanding why we're asking what we're
(36:20):
asking and what role that they play in that.
Because everyone's at different stages. We have some suppliers that are really
gung-ho and we have others that haven't even looked at it.
And we have some really, really big suppliers and we have some little mum and pop suppliers as well.
So it's being respectful of understanding where they are and what we require.
(36:40):
And so I think it's that, it's certainly that conversation piece and inviting people in,
and really sharing what the value is and how it can improve their business and
together we are better as a result.
And it seems to me that, like I get it, you're not looking for perfection from
(37:04):
your suppliers. It's more...
Who is willing to come on this journey with us, this journey of improvement and innovation?
And for me, one of the things that it suggests to me is it also moves the supplier
relationship from, I'm not talking about Australian vintage specifically,
(37:25):
but generally from one that's more transactional to one that's more relational.
Absolutely. But we're in it together. I think you said we're in it together.
And it's like, yeah, how do we work together to make this happen?
And that can only strengthen your relationships. And, you know,
that can only be a good thing. I 100% agree.
And I sort of feel like that's a real positive around how business is sort of
(37:49):
transitioning now rather than, you know, as you say, transactional relationship,
how can you form a lasting relationship that looks to the future and you grow
and develop and change and innovate together?
And that's what we're really sort of looking for is having a tight group
network of suppliers that we can really
(38:09):
do that with we're not big enough we're not a coca-cola or
anything like that that can really have you know
huge transformation and innovation and but we're wanting to participate so there
is we do still have a role within that and we are still a company of scale so
having those conversations understanding what's available to us and how we can
(38:30):
collaborate with suppliers or how we can collaborate with other industry partners.
Is how we sort of see our role as a certified B Corp and also as a company that
chooses to be impactful, being a horse for good.
And a company that chooses to be impactful.
Yeah, there is so much inspiration to be gained from what you guys are doing,
(38:59):
and I love that it's a story
of improvement and it's a story of innovation and collaboration and curiosity
and come and join us and let's do this together.
And it's a story of the future as well, a story of us into the future, which is amazing.
So we talked a little bit about the for-profit side, but this is the For Love and Money podcast.
(39:22):
So I wanted to get your thoughts on the balance of profit and purpose,
bringing the money side into the equation because you are a significantly sized company,
you're global, you do have a responsibility to your shareholders and you need
to be profitable to achieve what you want to achieve.
(39:44):
So how would you balance out the profit-purpose relationship?
Yeah, I mean, I like to think they really hold hands with each other.
I think a purpose lens can really increase stakeholder value and decrease organisational risk.
It's not always that black and white, though. You know, we are a for-profit
organization, and I think sometimes people think purpose or sustainability just costs money.
(40:08):
There's like, there's no upside to it. So I think when we look at things that
are purpose-driven and impact-driven, it's really around...
What's the commercial benefit of that? And we've already realized a lot of that,
you know, with our just looking at packaging, for example, that sort of,
that really started as a commercial benefit.
Like if we could look at our packaging to decrease the amount of options that
(40:33):
we had, that resulted in decreasing in weight, decreasing in emissions and removing
1.5 kilos of glass weight out of our supply chain.
So that had a positive that we weren't
having to manage so many different types of stock 1.5 million
kilos i think you forgot the million in that oh apologies
1.5 apologies yeah 1.5 kilos
(40:55):
so we saw some real commercial benefits there and so i think for the way we
look at we look at purposes okay it's almost like what's the risk of inaction
as well so if we don't look at that there's like huge regulations and compliance
that is coming down down the line,
you know, that is going to be unavoidable.
So, you know, companies need to ready themselves now. You can't stick your head in the sand.
(41:19):
So there's that. We know that climate change is a huge issue.
We know that consumers and staff are looking for companies that are purpose-driven
and that are impact-driven.
So if you're not actively looking at this, you're missing out and you're potentially
leaving yourself open for problems further down the track. So when we look at
(41:41):
purpose, you know, we're really proud about where we stand.
We talk about across our employee value proposition, our ESG position.
So when people are looking at coming and working with our organisation.
That they know that they're working with an organisation that is certified VCORP,
that we're looking at it after our staff with benefits, whether it's paternity
(42:01):
leave or birthday leave.
We've now put in aid volunteer leave as well. So our staff can go and impact,
have positive impact in communities where they live.
Those sort of things, I think, creates a workplace where people are proud to
show up and proud to work harder.
And therefore, that makes you much more profitable. You're not turning over staff. You're not.
(42:22):
Having people just clocking in and clocking out, they're passionate about being there.
And then, you know, as well, we know people are looking to invest in organizations
that are much more purpose-driven.
So by us looking at how we can be more impactful and purpose-driven,
that also attracts a different investor set too.
So there's all these positive points that you can gain from being purpose-driven.
(42:46):
Again, we're not pretending like we're the most sustainable organization out
there or or anything like that.
But we're really proud of the progress we've made and really holding ourselves
accountable to where we're going.
And, you know, B Corp certification makes you do that.
You know, we're using the B Corp framework to shape our strategy and our key
(43:09):
priorities into the future and our key projects that we're looking at.
Our net zero 2040 goal, you know,
really looks at how we're going to be decreasing our emissions across our value chain,
but also ensure that we're creating an environment
for people to thrive where the communities where we operate
both internally and externally and then
(43:30):
also having very transparent and responsible accountability and reporting so
our growth can be tracked because if you can't measure it doesn't really matter
then so like you know we want to make sure that we're measuring our impact and
we're talking about it and you know we're also okay with saying hey,
we wanted to do that, but it's changed now.
(43:50):
So we're looking at this and holding ourselves accountable to what we're doing
and what we're saying and where we want to be and hopefully taking a bit of
a leadership position in that and inspiring other people within our industry
and beyond to also have a crack.
And not everyone has to chase the E-Corp certification, but if they can just
look at their organisation and how they operate.
(44:11):
They too could probably find opportunities to have uplifts and commercial benefits
enable innovation and also create a much more profitable yet purposeful organisation.
I love that on so many levels. And I think, you know, you've taken us through
the stakeholder lens, the perspectives, and, you know, I think this idea that purpose...
(44:36):
Costs money, it's purpose or profit, you know, it's a trade-off,
is just very lazy thinking, you know, and the process you've gone through shows
the commercial benefits.
You're looking at the commercial benefits of everything you do.
And so when you say, hopefully, you know, this will be inspiration,
(44:58):
our leadership is inspiration, I'd take the hopefully out of it,
your leadership in this is absolute inspiration.
And so I'd ask you for leaders in companies that are considering the B Corp
journey, what words of advice would you have for them? Jump in with both B.
Just have a crack. I think the worst that can happen is that you have a really
(45:20):
clear understanding of where your baseline is and you'll hopefully be inspired
by the growth and the opportunities that you can see.
I think with us, like I said, it brought our organisation together.
We saw huge engagement from our team.
Now that we are certified, we're getting amazing engagement from our external
(45:41):
stakeholders, our customers, our investors.
It's giving us a great USP to
talk to as well. We're super proud of being part of the B Corp community.
It's an awesome community. It's so collaborative. collaborative people
are people are wanting to work with you and share and
and i think that's super super exciting and so
(46:01):
whether b corp is possible for your organization just simply
looking at the framework and sort of the metrics that they use to be a purpose-driven
organization i think is can be hugely beneficial to to any organization no matter
what your industry or size is yeah brilliant and and i'll i'll include a link
to b corp australia and new zealand and in the show notes.
(46:24):
And I also encourage anyone who isn't a B Corp and is interested to come along to one of the events.
They're open, not just to B Corts. It's very inclusive and find out,
come and learn a little bit about it.
Penelope, it has been an absolute pleasure to speak with you and to learn about
(46:44):
this journey and to learn about what Australian Vintage are doing and to learn
about your leadership in this space because it is absolutely leadership.
And, yeah, I'm really excited to get this episode out and live so people can be inspired by it.
I'm going to ask you to close out the
(47:06):
show with your dream Penelope's
dream so you know five years from now in your wildest dreams let's be ambitious
okay what do you hope can be achieved and this could be through the lens of
Australian vintage it could be a worldwide lens it's your dream so So it's up to you what it is.
(47:29):
Oh, thank you, Carolyn. That's such a great question. I guess my training would
be that I would see businesses really collaborating together for a long-term
view to be how can the power of many really provide transformative change.
And rather than just hearing all the bad news and things like that that are
(47:51):
out there, They're taking the brains,
the organization skills, the innovation that's out there to really do some cool
stuff that shakes the boat, that doesn't, that questions how business is done,
how people show up, and to do some really just cool stuff.
I'd love to see that and that people speaking about it and shouting about it,
(48:15):
not, you know, we talk about greenwashing, but there's this green hushing as well.
So like how do we use the collective voice to really get out there and be like,
you know, we're going to have some real great impact to ensure that people on planet thrive.
So what that looks like, I don't know. But I think it could,
there's some real excitement by that.
(48:35):
And that's why I'm driven to get up out of bed every day because I'm super excited
about what I do and the impact I can have as an individual.
But what we can do with many, I think can be super, super exciting.
And I think the role that business plays within that in enabling that to scale
and to really show up and involve people, I think is super exciting.
(49:00):
Beautiful dream. Thank you, Penelope. Thanks so much, Carolyn. I appreciate your time.
Music.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.