What Does Community Mean to You? Voices from Pyro Music Festival

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike (00:25):
Welcome to Forest Alchemy, where love, land, and community converge
in a dance of wild creativity.

Ally (00:32):
We are Mike and Ally, forest dwellers and soul partners, sharing
stories and projects from ourpermaculture community Homestead.

Both Mike & Ally (00:40):
Come, come gather by the fire and let's explore the magic of
connection creation and the living land.
Living land

Mike (01:04):
hello again.

Ally (01:06):
After a longer break than we expected, we're back.

Both Mike & Ally (01:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We, uh, so we were at, um, pyroMusic Festival down in Grand
Junction, Michigan, beginning
of June.

Mike (01:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Moved here from Ohio.
And while we were there, weinterviewed some musicians.
We interviewed some, somefriends, just, um, asking about
what community means to them,

Ally (01:27):
and even just random people as we were walking around.

Mike (01:30):
Yeah.
We

Ally (01:30):
stumbled upon a group of people.

Mike (01:32):
Yeah, it was really fun.
Um, but in true squirrel fashion, uh, wegot home and got caught up in all we've
got going on here and just been strugglingto find the time to record this intro.
And then, um, and then because wehad all the, we have all the separate
recordings, we have to piece ittogether, and we've been trying out a
new transcription software, so it's,it's just been a lot more steps.
So it's,

Ally (01:53):
yeah.

Mike (01:53):
Taken a little bit longer.

Ally (01:54):
We've been trying to make this podcast as easy as possible with
as few steps as possible, because.
Um, with ADHD and we all know outthere it is very easy to get caught
up in the little steps before thething, but this episode was a little
bit more complicated, so we got stuck.
Yeah, but that's okay 'cause we'regetting through it and here we are.

Mike (02:14):
Yep, yep.
I'm trying to use a new transcribedsoftware so that we can like, have,
have, um, you know, transcription of it.
So if anybody just wants to read and helpsthe search engine algorithm so that we
can, we can reach more, more listenersand get our message to more, more ears.

Ally (02:28):
Yep.
So here we go.
Um, this is a really, really fun episode.
We've been really excited to release it.
And basically the main theme ofthis is I, um, Mike and I were
asking people the music festival,what does community mean to you?
Because Music Festival,that was my first community.

Mike (02:50):
Yeah.
Really?
Yeah.
Same.
Mine wasn't necessarily music festival,it was like more, it was like.
Like small community gatheringfestival type things.

Ally (03:00):
Yeah.
I went to my first music festivalin college and I went and I was
just like, oh my gosh, thereare all these people like me.

Mike (03:10):
And the first time I went, I went to, um, to a Labor Day gathering
called Sapphire Rising at, um, this uh,community that was down in Bloomingdale
at the time called One Love Oasis.
And for the first time ever, Igot to see my three boys just like
thrive, like I've never seen before.
Mm-hmm.
And that was like, this is what we need.

Ally (03:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And every time we go to pyro together, Iremember the first time we went, um, I was
like, I need this to be my everyday life.
Yeah.
Like, we need to just have thesepeople around us playing music,
having fun, collaborating.
Yeah.
Working together.
Project.
This wants to be myevery day doing events.

(03:48):
Yeah.
Working on projects, home, sittingtogether, farming together.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Mike (03:54):
That's what we're creating here.
So, and,

Ally (03:56):
and all the people that go to music festivals, they're all
community humans too, even if communitylooks different for everybody.
So that's what this episode's aboutand we're really excited to share it.

Mike (04:05):
Yeah, and we hope you enjoy it.
Um, please share this with your friend.
Um, we're trying to, tryingto increase our reach
. Ally: All right, so we're, um, starting a intentional community in Montague
and, um, we kind of came into communityfirst through music festivals and
kind of the family that comes fromgoing to different music festivals.

(04:27):
So, yeah.
Um, oh, and by the way, thisis Chase Makai everyone.
How's it going?
Everybody

Chase (04:32):
good to be here?
You

Ally (04:32):
just did an incredible set here at Pyro Music Festival.
Um, but anyway, so we wanna knowwhat everyone's, what is your.
Um, idea of community.
What does community mean to you?

Chase (04:45):
Uh, community means to me like somewhere that you can feel safe and
comfortable in your own skin withouthaving to try too hard, you know?
Mm-hmm.
Just, um, family and having that,that feeling of being free, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And, and you don't have to be any,try to be a particular way or mm-hmm.

(05:11):
You know, you're just yourselfand it's somewhere that you
can feel safe to be yourself.

Mike (05:15):
Yeah.
And

Chase (05:15):
you know.

Mike (05:16):
And I know you've been, um, like music festivals have been where
you guys have played a lot, and, uh,I came across you, um, I didn't, I
didn't know that you were for, with,uh, medicine for the people before.
Mm-hmm.
And then I, somebody posted a video of youin the pyro group a few years ago of you
playing an acoustic song with your family.
And that's just so beautiful to me.
So that's almost like what I, what I knowof your music is what, what I've heard

(05:38):
of you online playing with your family.

Chase (05:40):
That's cool, man.
Yeah, I, um, I'm blessed to havebeen raised by musicians and, uh

Mike (05:45):
Oh wow.

Chase (05:46):
We, uh, didn't always sing together because I was a bit of a.
Rebellious teenager, and I was like,I'll never, I think we can relate.
Yeah.
I'll never play music and I'm notgonna be a musician like you, you know.
Oh, funny.
Uh, you know, funnily enough,it's, uh, definitely I am that, you

(06:07):
know, I, I became that, but, um.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, it's been a beautiful journeyand to be able to sing with your family
is, uh, something very special and,uh, hold that very close to my heart.

Ally (06:20):
Mm-hmm.

Chase (06:22):
And, uh, and your

Ally (06:22):
band kind of becomes your family too?

Chase (06:25):
Oh, definitely the band, yeah.
A a good band is a family for sure.
Mm-hmm.
And, and we, um.
We all get along reallywell, you know, and, uh,

Mike (06:34):
it's important when you spend so much time together.

Chase (06:36):
Yeah.
You know, it's hard to be stuckin a, in a van with, you know,
four other dudes, but, you know.
Right.
It definitely helps if you all getalong like, you know, for sure.
And, um, yeah, thesekinda like intentional

Ally (06:47):
community all living together.
You gotta figure out how to communicate.

Chase (06:51):
Yeah.
And you know, that's our mission isto travel around and try to bring
as many people together as possible.
And, and, um, it's not about us, youknow, it's about just that bringing
people together and creating a spacefor people to have a good time and,
and feel safe to, you know, to do so.

Ally (07:10):
Well you did that tonight for sure.
Thank you.
That was an amazing set.

Chase (07:13):
It was so fun, man.
Yeah.
I'm so, uh, I feel so blessed tobe able to do this and, you know,
come a long way to, to be hereand we've driven probably, uh.
I dunno how many miles, butprobably thousands of miles so far.
Started in Texas and then,uh, we went to Arkansas.

(07:33):
You guys, we drove to, there's Victor.

Zack (07:37):
You guys run into Grand Rapid.
Got,

Chase (07:39):
Hey, Victor, love you, brother.
Anyway, um, yeah, so, yeah, it's just,um, it's really good to be here and I
appreciate, you know, everyone's loveand everyone's, uh, you know, attention
and the, and space, you know, thespace to be able to share and create

Ally (07:59):
for sure.

Chase (07:59):
I think that's the most important thing for us all to be able to.
Create, you know?
Mm-hmm.
It's good for their, for our souls tobe creating something, whatever it is.
You know, art or anything.
You know, growing, growing food,planting trees, creating, creating life.
Right.
Bringing life to, and you need to feel

Ally (08:21):
safe in order to have that vulnerability to be creative.

Chase (08:26):
You, of course.
So it's good to have that family

Ally (08:27):
community that you can be creative in.

Chase (08:31):
Yeah.
Definitely.
So where are you guys,um, starting your, uh,

Ally (08:34):
in Montague?
Where is that?
It's, um, about two hours.
Was it

Mike (08:38):
two hours?
Hour and a half to two hours.
Uh, north here we're aboutfive miles from the lake shore.
Cool.
Inland.

Chase (08:43):
Awesome.

Mike (08:44):
Yeah.

Chase (08:44):
Beautiful.
I'll have to come and check you guys out.

Mike (08:46):
Yeah.
From our culture community up there.

Chase (08:47):
Awesome.

Mike (08:48):
Yeah.
We're gonna start doingmusic up there too.
I love Bill

Chase (08:50):
Molson's, one of my heroes, man.
Oh, awesome.

Mike (08:52):
Oh, yeah, yeah, because yeah.
Australia.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Right.

Chase (08:56):
Yeah.
Um, I love, I love that,you know, just, um.
It's one of my other passions isgrowing food and Oh, beautiful.
Being in the garden and youknow, just being a part of nature
and it's so important for usall to be connected to that.

Mike (09:11):
Yeah.
So you have a garden back home?

Chase (09:14):
Oh yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
I, um, probably not as, uh, it'sa bit of a sandy soil, so yeah.
That's what we have.

Mike (09:23):
Yeah.
Same with

Chase (09:24):
You gotta cut up.
We're close

Mike (09:25):
to the lake.
Yeah.

Chase (09:25):
You gotta work a lot to get, you know, so we

Mike (09:27):
say soil is our first crop.
Like, we're growing soil,we're like, we're building.

Chase (09:30):
That's the first thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, you guys know what's up.
Yeah.
You gotta, if the soil ain't good, thenthe plants ain't gonna be happy, you know?
Right.
So.

Ally (09:37):
You gonna feed the soil?

Chase (09:38):
Yep.

Ally (09:39):
Grow the soil.

Chase (09:41):
But uh, yeah, we could talk about permaculture in
the next podcast if you want.
Yeah, for sure.

Ally (09:47):
Thanks for chatting with us.

Mike (09:48):
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
Thanks for playing here.
I was excited to see yourname on the set list.

Chase (09:52):
I appreciate you, man.
Thanks very much.

Mike (09:55):
Thank you.

Chase (09:55):
Well you guys take care and uh, we're off to, uh, the next destination.
Have

Mike (10:01):
a good trip.
Cheers.

Chase (10:03):
Thank you very much.

Ally (10:04):
Thank you
.Mike: alright.
We're sitting here with Amber Echo
at Pyro Music Festival.
She played a set yesterday andwe're playing one on Sunday.
I am,

Amber (10:13):
uh, we think it's at two 30.

Ally (10:15):
Yeah, it might be at

Amber (10:16):
three 30.

Ally (10:17):
It is whenever it's meant to be.

Mike (10:20):
Yeah.
Festival time.
They can write it down.
It's still not gonna be that.
Yeah.

Ally (10:24):
So we were having fun talking with Amber yesterday about community.
Yeah.
And um, you know, music festival is.
Like a community.
It's what introduced me to communityand you know, music sharing,
music and healing together.
So we just want to talk to peopleabout what community means to them.

Amber (10:43):
Yeah, I think that's a great subject.
I mean, um, I've always feltlike music festivals are
practice at community, really.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's just like between therealms of existence a little bit.
Like to even find a music festivalthat like is a family festival where
kids can be there uhhuh and you'recamping the whole weekend, you're
like, got the luck of the gods to evenlike discover it, you know, Uhhuh and

(11:07):
then when you get there and you seeartists and vendors and musicians and
even the food vendors or like anyoneselling things looking differently
than what you would see in mainstream.
Yeah.
You know, like really doing their best.
And anytime we buy from eachother, it's literally like.
Beating their dreams, you know?

(11:27):
Yep.
It's an excellent practicein community, I think.
Yeah.
There's a lot of

Mike (11:30):
trade here too.

Amber (11:31):
Yes.
Trade too.
Which is, which is great because ifyou have a community that's thriving
right, and then you visit anothercommunity that's thrive, thriving, you
may be thriving for a different reason.
You know, and if trading amongstcommunities is just a powerful,
uh, asset thing to do, I think.
Yeah.
Right.

Ally (11:49):
Yeah.
We talked about one of our goalsfor community is having our village
of people that live together, butthen also having this like branch of
exchanging of resources with surroundingcommunities and with local farmers too.
It's so hard to connect the localfarmers with people to buy and
there's so much wasting of produce.

Zoe (12:08):
Yeah.

Ally (12:09):
You know, if we're like, so community is this
like big picture for us Yeah.
Of finding these places where we canexchange creative energy and things.

Amber (12:19):
I think that's great because really, I mean.
There's so many things that we canexperience, but like someone's gonna
really love like growing things.
Mm-hmm.
Like some people might like specificallylove growing, like a unique thing.

Mike (12:35):
Mm-hmm.

Amber (12:35):
You know, that might take you a lot of effort to do.
It might, might not be yourheart passion to do that, but
maybe you make things, you know.
Mm-hmm.
And maybe you love making those things.
But Mr. Grower over here does notlike making the things, but he really
wanted to trade this special thingthat he grew, you know, uhhuh and it
really creates trust and friendship.

(12:56):
Yep.
And comradery, like mm-hmm.
You know, that's what we're

Mike (13:00):
currently experiencing.
Like we were at our last house, like itwas just us, so we were doing the garden.
We're doing the building of thethings, the making of the food every
day and taking care of the kids.
And at the, in a new place where we havecommunity now, um, there's a couple,
there's us and there's another familythere, and our two other families there.
Um, we just haven't had time to do garden.

(13:22):
So like last year we had a baby and like,we totally didn't get anything planted.
Like we had no garden and we were hopeful.
We were like, okay, we're gonnaget another, we're gonna get a
shelf set up and we're gonna getseed starts going in like March.
And that ended up not happening.
And, but, um, but Liberty and Tony,the other two other people there,
um, that, that's more their passion.

(13:43):
Yeah.
Like planting the things.
Yeah.
So while,

Ally (13:45):
and the stage of life that they're in, 'cause that's a big
part of it too, is like we all gothrough these different stages.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Mike (13:51):
And, and Liberty, um, didn't get a chance to plant
like there for a while either.
But this year she's, um, with, withTony, working with her, like they're,
they're really busting ass, likeputting in gardens like they've done,
uh, put in a lot in two gardens.
And then we come out there and like,um, you know, give a hand when we can.
And, um, I'm a compost builder, so like,even though I haven't been helping with
the planting, working on the compost pile.

(14:12):
And then we're also doing like the ducks.
So they were wanting to get, um, everybodywants to get like, raise things that
lay eggs are so expensive right now.
Yeah.
So, um, so we took on the duck project.
Hello.

Ally (14:29):
Yeah.
I, yeah.
I love the family of like,the family feel of pyro.
Yeah.
And like I do too.
You come here and just like, peopleare just like, you meet them and
it's just that instant connectionof like, they're like, happy Pyro.

Amber (14:44):
Like just yelling.
Yeah.
You're walking by.
Happy Pyro.
It was so weird at first.
I was like, am I supposed to yell it back?
Like I feel, I'm just like, thanks.
Oh gosh.
And I'm still walking.
Like, I was like learning the, like yeah.
You know, but it was very welcoming.
Yeah.
Uhhuh It was, it was really nice.
And actually the first time I ever cameto pyro, um, was because someone online

(15:09):
was giving away a free ticket for afamily, like try to give tickets for a
family that was creative and like stuff,and I just like told them about my family
and like, what we are, and he was like,sends me a message later and he said,
because he was like, I'm really well off.
I, I can afford to do this.
I want to give to the communitywho, who needs to be here, you know?

(15:32):
And he's like, I already gave my ticketsaway, but I just want you to know, I,
I'm, I'm buying more for you and yourfamily because Aw, you need to be there.
And so, like, that was our first time.
What year was that?
I think it was 2022, I think.
Okay.
Yeah.
Oh, you were there.

Mike (15:47):
Yeah.
One of the, the southington offroad ones.

Amber (15:49):
Yeah.
It was just figuring myself out andreally like going through life, trying to
figure out how to, we already had the bus.
We, for, for the people listening.
I have a school bus that, uh,my family converted into a
home and we raised the roof.
So it's, um, seven and a halffeet on the inside, I think on
the, like from floor to ceiling.

(16:10):
Yeah.
It's, um, I wish I could show it toyou, but it's, there's not much to

Mike (16:15):
say.
Pictures.
Yeah.
We'll put some pictures.
Yeah.
Awesome.
The pictures on the, on the podcast,

Amber (16:21):
it's, it's a big feat to do what we did, but anyone can do it.
And, um, we were living in it,afraid to jump on the road, but
there's another family that'shere often called the Moleys.
And they have been traveling forover 10 years, probably 12 now years.
Um, and their family, like is thriving.
They make tie dyes and sell soaps.

(16:42):
And now they even got likea coffee booth and stuff.
And

Ally (16:45):
Is it cosmic coffee people?

Amber (16:47):
No, they're, they're, they're children do the booth.
I guess they Oh, wow.
Yeah.
'cause it's their, so it's nottheir booth, it's their kids' booth.
Oh, that's awesome.
You know, that's so great.
They're teenagers, family, business.
And I

Mike (16:59):
really, I, I just love that because like, rather than the kids thinking, oh
man, I've gotta go like, figure out whichcrappy nine to five job on the kids.
Least they get to go to music festivalsand sell coffee to their friends.

Amber (17:11):
They do.
And you know, like my, my youngestlearned pretty quickly that he
could sell paintings, um, topeople and they would buy them.
And he accidentally droppedsome paint on the floor.
He was like maybe six or seven.
Okay.
His, he dropped some paint onthe floor and he was like, Ugh.
And I was like, it's okay.
It's like.
You can, and he stepped on it.

(17:31):
It was like you could make the paint,like paint with your feet if you want.
Like, yeah.
Any part of the art is how you do theart, so you can do it however you want.
And he like got all serious and focusedand, and he was like dipping his foot
just carefully on the floor paintand like, like making this art piece.
And he steps back and he takesa deep breath and he's like,

(17:53):
I call it steps to success.
Oh,
amazing.
And someone amazing, someone at pyrogave him 20 bucks for that painting.
And, and the boys really, um,they, the, my older one, um, two
years older than him, he sellscrystals and stuff like that.

(18:16):
And, and they have easily madeover a hundred dollars each.
And if they wanna buysomething special, then.
Yeah.
They always know how to do that and Ithink that's something that we're really
missing in the world, Uhhuh, where weknow that we can succeed, we're not gonna
starve or fail and really how to do that.
Yeah.
Along alongside with community, becausecommunity shows that, but I feel like

(18:38):
healthy community really is like wheneach individual can learn how to be
their own self-sufficient in a Yeah.
A certain amount of way, you know?

Ally (18:48):
Totally.

Amber (18:49):
To where you're filling your own cup up and then you, you
give from your overflow, so noone's ever resenting each other.
Yes.
We're all like teams, but we'reall capable individual teams.
Yeah.
If that makes sense.
Yeah,

Ally (19:01):
yeah.
Totally.
Yeah.
Our boys look forwardto pyro all year long.
'cause like they love selling stuff.
They've done the same thing,like their first pyro.
They like what?
Bought something little.
It ended up with like a hundreddollars, just like trading up.

Mike (19:16):
So when we got there, I, on our way, I'm like, okay, I'll give
you guys, I, it was a surprise trip.
Like they didn't knowthey were coming to pyro.
'cause I decided last minute, likeit was 21, 20 21, everything was
canceled the year before and it,a lot of things were canceled.
2021. I'm like, well, I'm not gonnaget to take 'em to normal festivals
that I take 'em to, so I'm just gonnabring 'em with me to pyro this year.
Yeah.
And we brought some walkie talkiesand they were able to keep in touch.

(19:37):
And um, the first one was at BrushyFork and where we were at was like,
so like it was kind of a tighter air.
Yeah.
Like the camping was way spread out.
I

Amber (19:44):
went to, I went there once.
Okay.
Yeah.
My first I think was arm second.
I can't remember, but I went there once.
Okay.
Yeah.

Mike (19:51):
Yeah.
The layout of that pyro was really nice.
'cause we were, we were, except

Amber (19:54):
for the ground for bare feet.
Oh, it was pokey.
Oh, what they had cut on.
Maybe it was just that year they had cutthe, it was like wheat or something in it.
Yeah.
Like it was a littlepokey on the bare feet.
Yeah.
I wonder if that was when theyfirst started and like maybe
it was a transformed field.
Yeah.

Mike (20:09):
Spring

Ally (20:10):
Phoenix.
Where was that one that I went south.
That was great for bare feet.
That one like that was Oh,that was that same one?
No,

Mike (20:16):
that was Spring.
Spring.
Phoenix was at Southington off road.

Ally (20:19):
Okay.
Yeah.
I liked, yeah.
But this one, the walkways havelike all the rocks and so I end
up wearing shoes for some of it.
And

Amber (20:26):
some of it is beautiful sand.
Yes.
Wonderful sand.

Ally (20:29):
Yeah.
It just depends on where I'm going.
If you

Amber (20:31):
go off the path to the side, they were sand.
Yes.
Which is great.
Yeah, that's true.
So I

Mike (20:36):
gave each of the boys $20 when we got there.
'cause normally when we go tofestival, they like, they figured out
that they can sell things to people.
Yeah.
So they like to try and make things,but they didn't have time to do that
'cause they didn't know they were going.
Yeah.
So like, all right, I'll justgive you guys 20 bucks each.
You can like get yourself a littlesomething and like we get here, we get
here on Thursday 'cause we're here to,uh, we help set up the workstation.
Space with Illumination Stationand or the workshops, and it was

(20:59):
like Thursday afternoon or Friday.
They're like, oh, can we have $20?
We wanna, like, we found some things wewanna get, we wanna get it right now.
And I was like, well, don't you guyswanna like look like, just look around
for a couple days and then when you seesomething you really like, then get it.
And they're like, no, wewanna just get something out.
I'm like, all right, whatever.
$20. They went and bought somethingor bought a few things and then they

(21:19):
went and sold those things and mademore money than they, than they got.
And they kept doing that.
And that $20 turned intolike a hundred dollars.
Why?
Why they were scared.

Amber (21:27):
That is not an uncommon story because Yeah.
We've literally watched the, theboys do this so many times, not
just our boys, other children.
Like they used to get these rockbags, Uhhuh, it was mystery bags.
Yep.
And it'd be a $5 bag and you gotall these rocks and they'd go
around and sell them, you know?
Yeah.
That was where it started.
Yeah.
But yeah.
And.

(21:48):
Actually a really fun thing thatyou can do that we found out, per
se, if the kid has comes up to youto try or an adult, I mean, we can
be, we can share the love, right?
Yeah.
You know, like, um, that inner childappears in front of you with their
hard work or trying to move something.
Yeah.
Um, if you don't have money or theneed for such a thing, you can bless it

(22:10):
and tell them that I don't have that.
But what I can do is believe thatsomeone will buy it and go, Oop.
Right.
And what's really cool aboutthis is I have so many witnesses
of this, how this works.
I have, and literally yesterday thishappened, this, this young man, he had to
be like, uh, maybe 12 or or like, or 11.

(22:34):
He was a little like, will you buy thiswith the face of like a little attitude?
I don't know if anyone's gonnabuy this from me face, you know?
And I'm just like, it wasactually kind of cool thing.
It was purple crystal slat.
It was pretty, I was like.
Told him, I, I don't reallyhave the money to buy it right
now, but, um, what I can do.
And I told him and I ped it and herolled his eyes and he turned and

(22:57):
I laughed so hard because I had twopeople with me who know that this works.
We had a table, wait, 1, 2, 3,actually there were three people there
that were paying attention to this.
And, um, they giggled 'causethey knew it was about to happen.
And all of us watched really,really, really, really close.
And he walks over and instantly,instantly he finds someone to buy it.

(23:19):
And she gave him $10.
And, and now that kid believes, well, Idon't know if he does, because your brain
tricks you, you know, sometimes into thinkinto thinking things are coincidence.
And so,

Ally (23:36):
but you might think that now, but you planted the seed.
It's

Amber (23:38):
there.
But so it's like, but think itwas also more experiences also.
It wasn't just a seed for him, itwas everyone who was watching too.
Yeah, because we talked about itand they know how important it
is to do that for people, Uhhuh.
And so it's become this thing, it'slike this undercurrent where people are
booping the like things trying to be sold.
So they'll be blessed, you know?
Or if you see something that youreally loved, um, in a booth that

(24:01):
you can't afford or you don'treally need, you can do that too.
Just boop, you know?
Yes.

Ally (24:08):
Yeah.
I feel like that.
Have you seen the um, the artist,we're gonna interview her too.
She's on the other side.
She does the Woodburn art.
Oh yeah.
Oh no, not yet.
She butter.
She has got these butterflies.
Has these butterflies.
You have that.

Amber (24:20):
That's funny.
I'll have to go see her.
This actually appeared at my boss, so.
Well, that's from her.
It's a quest.
It's a Quest token, you mean?
Yes.
It's,

Mike (24:29):
you

Amber (24:29):
walk

Mike (24:29):
past the

Ally (24:29):
stage

Mike (24:30):
challenge going down the road and you'll see her off the
side, not to far past the stage.
She's the

Ally (24:34):
most amazing artist.
She draws like, um, woodburns with the wood burns.
It's women that arelike turning into trees.
Oh my

Mike (24:41):
gosh.

Ally (24:42):
And like all, just like every, it's so you're gonna love it.
I will love that.
And she wants to get this, she useslike this, like cheap one to do it.
The wood burner.
Yeah.
I don't remember what it's called.
And she really wants to get this $200 one.
Yeah.
And her, her artwork is like 90to a hundred something dollars.
And I've been just like sayinglike, I am gonna convince at least

(25:04):
two people to buy this so that shecan get this thing so that she can
like, do it even easier, you know?
Okay.
Well,

Amber (25:11):
we'll be sure to make some time and go over there and boop,

Ally (25:14):
all,

Amber (25:14):
all of her things.
Yes.
Um, but really it's like if you find itworks more, it works better if you, if you
really find one that you feel drawn to.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Because you can feel the,the essence in it, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And wood is a living thing, and whena living being is working with wood,
like it holds much more essence.

(25:35):
Mm-hmm.
So that sounds really, reallyawesome what she's doing.

Ally (25:39):
Yeah.
So many shivers in myspine in this conversation.

Mike (25:43):
So I, I consider myself more of a maker than artist,
except for when it comes to wood.
Like, I, I can't paint great, butI can look at a piece of wood.
Even firewood.
I str I, we use firewood for heatand I really struggle with it because
there's so many times I pick up a pieceof wood and I'm like, this is a job.
Yeah.
This is a bowl.
And like, so I've got a stash, like I'vegot this little mini plastic cut outside.

(26:03):
It's just full of like, firewoodthat I've saved That's so funny.
And gonna turned into something.
And that's, that's my art.
We get that.

Amber (26:08):
We get that because this winter my husband started working with woodworking
from, from what that was naturally fallen.
Um, where we're at and, uh, there's somany, there's, so there's dark walnut.
He got a bunch of dark walnut stuff.
Mm-hmm.
And

Mike (26:22):
when you get it fresh from a tree, like most of the time you
see walnut, it's just dark brown.
But when it's like fresh cutfrom a tree, he keeps a sap wood.
So you have the contrast of the darkbrown and a really white blonde.
So

Ally (26:33):
gorgeous SAP wood.
Yeah.
He made me an altar shelf with it.
And it's just like withthe natural live edge.
Isn't that, it's called live edge.
That's so gorgeous.
That is so awesome.
The color of it.

Amber (26:44):
I love that.
Yeah.

Mike (26:45):
Can we talk music tech for a minute?
Sure.
I know that, sure Know you're a looper.
So I'm curious about your hardware.

Amber (26:50):
So, um, honestly, my husband is the genius behind the situation that I am in.
That's good for me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I do, we have, um, we, we actuallywent the cheaper, the cheapest mm-hmm.
Route, um, which is really, when it comesto music equipment, nothing's cheap.
Yeah.
Right.

(27:12):
You'll just buy more over and over.
But, but, but like, um, so we tooklike a basic MIDI pedal mm-hmm.
Which, um, has a several differentbuttons for anyone who doesn't.
Yep.
I see.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
I saw that yesterday because

Mike (27:26):
I was peeking.
I just gotta go look at what people use

Amber (27:28):
and, and basically, um, there's a program in the computer that you
can put, um, tell it what to do.
Yeah.
Like you can add an effect ifyou know a MIDI, any the button
basically you decide what it does.
Yeah.
And so he made it so that it loops.
Okay.
And so we made that the looperand I've gotta start and a stop
and I've got four of those, butI actually have eight channels.

Mike (27:51):
Okay.

Amber (27:52):
Um, so I have eight channels and I can infinitely loop on one of
those channels forever if I want to.

Mike (27:57):
Yeah.

Amber (27:58):
But the reason I have the eight channels is 'cause I
can turn the volume up and down,I can leave them going mm-hmm.
And just like turn it up and down sothat, um, bring something in, take it out.
And that really changed everything for me.
Mm. Um.
But most of it is in, I thinkMobius is, is the looping software.

(28:19):
Okay.
And if not, I'll, I'll have my husbandtell me and you can like, have a
link or something to what it is.
Um, but it's, um, it's really great that,like I did start with a basic looper.
Like a, a boss.

Mike (28:34):
Yeah.
Like just

Amber (28:35):
two.
But if I were to advise anyone who isgoing to loop to just go ahead and save
your money to get at least three channels.
Yeah.
So they, because most songs comewith a chorus in a verse Yep.
And they bridge.
Yep.
And that, and you've gotta be realcreative with that, that bridge
space if you only have two spots.

Ally (28:57):
Yeah.
That's what I ran into.
My aunt went like, um, I sangat a, an event that she did.
And so, um.
She paid me and I was like, I'mgonna set the intention that
I'm going to learn how to loop.
So I took that money that I made frommaking music to buy a loop pedal, but
it was only like the two station one.

(29:17):
I just,

Mike (29:18):
and it was a complicated one, complicated.
I'm a tech guy and thatwas a pain in the ass.
I'm

Ally (29:20):
not a tech person.
And this was before him.
And so I just instantly gave up.
'cause I'm like, this is too hard.
I can't loop all thethings that I wanna loop.
But we ended up getting, what's the,

Mike (29:30):
what's it called?
Um, are you familiar with Dixon's violin?

Amber (29:34):
Yes.

Mike (29:35):
So he's a, he's a friend of ours and we asked him, I sent him
a message, I'm like, Hey, whatdo you use for looping station?
And he's like, oh, get the bossRC 5 0 5 or the RC 600 month foot.
Yeah, that's, yeah,that's what I would say.
Sweetwater had a, had an open box 5 0 5.
So we picked one of those upand started playing with that.
And then after we got that, I learnedthere's, um, on an iPad you can get
one called Loopy Pro and it's only 30bucks for this and like this, this.

(29:59):
Um, recorders that we're talking on.
Yeah, it's the audio interfacethat I got to plug in so we can
plug instruments and microphones.
iPad.
Oh, that's so cool.
Yeah.
iPad and this and it worked out.
'cause we've been talking about doing apodcast and we're like, we could bring a
thing around or we could like use a phone,but this has a great microphone on it.
Mm-hmm.
So we just use this soit's like multipurpose.
So this and your instruments andlike, if you already have an iPad,

(30:19):
like it's so quick to get set up andthere's, um, YouTube tutorials on it.
It's like really powerful.

Ally (30:24):
Mm-hmm.
I still prefer the boss 'causeI like the buttons, the physical
buttons about the screen.
I really,

Amber (30:29):
really, really was super close to getting one.
Mm-hmm.
But when it came down to like upgradingto something to, or what I thought was
upgrading, um, my husband drew it, whichjust like, I What do you like about that?
Because he can tell anything todo anything with the programming.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's cool.
And so it's like,

Mike (30:49):
yeah.

Amber (30:50):
You know, and I wanted the ease of having the pitch drop and the like,
hand thing and, and where I could like.
You know, and it's just like,sounds really, it's got good
effects already put into it.
Uhhuh.
And he's like, if we're patient, wecan put whatever effects we want.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah, true.
And, and he turned out to be correct.

(31:14):
Um, but yeah,

Mike (31:16):
it's easier to do things in software than his hardware.

Amber (31:19):
Yeah.
For him, for him it's much easier.
I'm like a hands on

Ally (31:24):
person.
Yeah.
Same.
Same.
Well, we'd love to do a longerinterview with you in the future,
but thank you for taking thetime to talk with us about Yeah.
It was really great to meet you.
Of

Mike (31:35):
course.

Amber (31:35):
Yeah.
It's, it's been great meeting you guystoo and having this little chat, even
though like we're talking to other people.
Hello other people.
It's still, it's still like it'scool to get to know you guys.
Yeah.
I'm being called.
It seems, do you hear that?
I have no idea what he said.
Hey, echo, come here.
It's 'cause children are wise.
Don't ever forget.
They teach us a lot.

(31:57):
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
They

Mike (31:58):
teach us as much as we teach them

Ally (31:59):
them.
Yes.
It's one of the themes of our podcast.
Really?
Yeah.
Like just consciousparenting and like learning.
I do, um, inner child healing workshopstoo, and that's what I talk about
so much is like raising your ownkids is healing that inner child.
It is in you too.
I think

Amber (32:16):
we are echoes of each other.
I'd say.
Yes.
I think so.

Mike (32:21):
So often when people sit down and talk to each other,
they find out they have more incommon than they do differences.
It's actually

Amber (32:27):
been really recent that this has happened to be like, um, consistent
because I specifically requested, um, abetter friendship with myself from myself.
And so I built that, especiallyeven more so over this last winter.
I really did some work on,on asking myself, am I being
really good friend to myself?
And I think because I've unlockedthat friendship in myself, now

(32:51):
I'm starting to finally see.
And me and meet people capable of thatfriendship that I had to create first.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Mike (32:59):
It was the exact same story for me.
Same like 2015, 16.
Yeah.

Ally (33:04):
That's how we manifested each other too.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And we had to be very specific.
And it was interesting right around theexact same time before we got together,
our therapist, it was me, my, my therapistwas asking me to like make a list of
what I am looking for in a relationship.
And he made a list ofwhat was a music festival.
Right.

Mike (33:22):
The music festival's on there?
No.
Oh no.
That was, um, that was, there wasan intention setting or something.
It was, um, a new moonintention setting workshop.

Ally (33:30):
Yeah.
But like most of the thingson our list were identical.
One of them like dancing in the kitchenlike mine and mine was like dancing, you
know, just having someone to dance with.
Yeah.
It was just so cute.
But that you have to create thatfriendship with yourself first.
I needed that before Icould find him, you know?
Yeah.
If we'd have found each other 5,5, 10 years earlier, you might
not have lasted through it.

(33:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I'm glad that we all linked upin our manifestation this weekend.

Amber (33:59):
It's a good time to be alive, actually.

Ally (34:01):
Yeah,

Amber (34:02):
I

Ally (34:02):
feel that.

Mike (34:03):
Yeah.
Yep.
You wanna guess focuson the doom and gloom.
Nope.
This is it right here.
This is what we, whatwe're gonna focus on.

Ally (34:09):
Community.
Community, yes.
Speaking of kids, we gotta go seeif our kid woke up from a nap.
All right guys.
So what does community look likefor you here and outside of pyro?
Hmm.

Josh (34:26):
Uh, community Looks like showing up, uh, being available
and present for your friends, foryour family, and for yourself.

Mike (34:33):
Mm, hell

Josh (34:33):
yeah.
Um, yeah, seeing through that, that windowof illusion that wraps us outside of here,
where you can come together and actuallyexperience each other in the flesh.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.

Mike (34:44):
Yeah.
If you're spending a weekendhere, it's culture shock.
Just going back up.
It is, yes.
It's, it is.
It's so crazy.

Katie (34:50):
And I think diversity is a big part of what mm-hmm.
This community is and what it feels liketo be part of something that's just not
you in your E echo chamber, you know?
Yeah.
Yep, yep.

Ally (35:04):
All different ideas flowing around together.
Mm-hmm.
And creativity and expression.
And the way people show up as themselveshere, you know, and build off each other.
And it encourages

Josh (35:15):
others to be themselves.
Yeah, it does.
Yes.
Like you was saying earlier, it'slike, oh, you, you have your mask off.
It's, it's okay to take my mask off.
That's what I was

Ally (35:21):
gonna say.
We all take our masks off when we come in.
Yeah, exactly.

Josh (35:25):
Yeah.
And show each other those masks too.
Like look at the inside.
Look at the outside, like, check it out.
Look what I can do with it.
You know?
It's a trick.

Katie (35:33):
And here you just never feel judged.
You don't walk into a store and feellike, oh God, I'm the weird one.
No.
You're just like, there's no way.
I'm the weird one here.

Mike (35:42):
If you get closer, you can smell it.
Yes.
My people.
Totally.
That's so good.

Katie (35:49):
The lack of judgment is a huge part of community, I think is what that is.
Yeah.
Just letting people shine.

Mike (35:55):
Yeah.
And I love all the kids herethat also get to experience.
Yes.

Josh (35:58):
Yeah.
They can experience communityin a different way that
isn't something that they're.
Told this community, it's somethingthat they can actually experience.

Katie (36:05):
Yeah.
I literally got chills when you said thatbecause one of my favorite things about
pyro is coming back the next year andseeing the kids be older kids grow up.
Oh.
And doing like a little bit differentand hustling and doing their thing.
And I was like, oh,they're becoming adults.

Mike (36:21):
Little splashes.
They were were, they were first littlehustlers the first few years and this year
they're like, oh, at last minute they'relike, oh, we need to bring things to sell.
And they like gather a few thingsand they haven't left their tent.
Their things haven't left theirtent because their focus, as soon
as they get here, it's like friends.
Friends gotta find friends.
Yep.
How it is.

Josh (36:35):
That's how it is.
Your worldly ideas come with you and assoon as you get here you're like, oh, that
baggage, like before it wasn't baggage.
It was all, I don't need anything.
Right.
Yeah.
But I love all the thingspeople bring to share too.
Yeah.
Whether it's, you know, if it'sextremely beautiful art that you've
been working on, or just like simplelike food or an orange, sharing food is
such a big part of community, I think.
Mm-hmm.

Katie (36:54):
Yeah.

Josh (36:54):
Yeah.
Just

Katie (36:55):
giving

Josh (36:55):
it away.
And then also being able to lookpeople in the eyes and not feel
strange about that in the world.
I, I deliver all the time, so I'mconstantly interacting with people and
I'll meet them and be like, Hey, hello.
And you can see it's almost,they shy away a little bit.
Not here.
Not here at all.
No.
You know, and maybe thatgoes back to the mask.
You feel comfortable.

Joseph (37:13):
I

Josh (37:13):
think

Joseph (37:13):
it's great to watch people interact with my son.
Yes.
Yeah.
And I think that's like soimportant to me that everyone that
I like, see him interact with.
Like, I already have this senseof security that, you know, he's
probably gonna terrorize them,then they're gonna terrorize.
It's, that's probably,and they'll love it.
Yeah.
You know, he's a charmer.

(37:34):
I think that's like such a beautiful thingabout community is that like, before even,
like knowing somebody, just seeing themin your community and knowing that we're
all together in it, like we're all safe.
Mm-hmm.
Like.

Katie (37:49):
And I don't have to necessarily remember your
name, for it to be community,

Joseph (37:54):
as a matter of fact, three years.
Yes.
Yep.
I

Katie (37:56):
love him.
We hang out every year.
Hugs.
Don't know your name the moreI try to remember your name.
I keep

Mike (38:00):
saying the wrong name.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We came across somebody yesterday thatwas like so excited to see us that
uh, we had talked to, um, a lot lastyear that was coming to our workshops.
And like I recognized herand it like took me a minute.
I like had zero details and the moreshe was talking, I'm like, okay.
And I'm like, yep, Muskegon, Sarah, Sarah.

Ally (38:18):
But finally you just have to follow the the breadcrumb.
Yeah.

Zack (38:21):
I think for myself as a community founder of what community means is friends
becoming family through acts of service.
Absolutely.
So I think, uh, the more wespend time together and um, pour
our love into each other, thecloser the community is gonna be.
Yeah, for sure.
When I come to pyro the firsttime I felt that feeling here.
Same.
Absolutely same.

(38:41):
It's very much home.

Mike (38:43):
So, yeah.
Yeah.
So, um, you said you founded community,so I'm curious to hear about that.
I,

Zack (38:48):
I'm my own eco village.

Mike (38:49):
Oh, where at, where is that

Zack (38:50):
in, uh, Kentucky.
Hartford.
Kentucky.

Mike (38:51):
Okay.

Zack (38:52):
What's the name of it?
Yonder.
Yonder.
It's just beginning.
Okay.
Actually just got, uh, thesecond home built and I'm
building seven homes there, so.
Awesome.
So we will

Mike (39:01):
have to add your name to a list because one of
these, one, one year mm-hmm.
We're gonna, um, us and our family, we'regonna travel to different intentional
communities just to like visit.
And I just did that last year.
I just did that last year.
Did you have a favorite?

Zack (39:14):
Mm, I, I, I've traveled a bunch of hostels and I have a favorite hostel.
I haven't found my favorite community yet.
Um, I'd say the farm inTennessee is probably, oh yeah.
Probably my favorite.
But, uh, there's, there's alot more out there to explore.

Mike (39:27):
One of our, uh, one of the, um, we live grew up in Montague.

Zack (39:29):
Mm-hmm.

Mike (39:30):
And, um, one of our community members that's at our community,
she lived down in Nashville mm-hmm.
Uh, for most of her life.
Yeah.
And before she came to Michiganand she went to the farm Yeah.
To deliver her two sons.

Zack (39:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, that's awesome.
I've been to a couple of, uh, offestivals that they have there,
and they're just beautiful.
Yeah.
It's, it's, uh, it's energy.
It's, yeah, it's incredible energy.

Ally (39:51):
If you guys don't know, the farm was founded by a midwife and her husband.
Mm-hmm.
And so it's just like a bunch ofrenegade birth workers that I love.
It came in the seventies, I thinkthat, um, were tired of birthing
in the hospitals, and so they justcreated a community, I guess shivers
talking about 'em every time.
They're so inspirational.
Ina Ma Gaskin, I think is who founded it.

Zack (40:12):
Yeah.
They, they were the originalHaight Ashbury caravan that came
from the west coast Oh, wow.
To buy land here.
Yeah.
Yep.
They came in a bus caravanand and established the farm.

Mike (40:22):
Yep.

Zack (40:24):
Beautiful

Josh (40:24):
community.
See a community that's based on loveor that starts in love can bring that
love with them, their hearts, so theycan travel with their own community.
Yes.
Whether they're there or not,and bring that elsewhere.
I think that's a real, likefoundation of a good, yeah.

Ally (40:37):
And, and before they had the community when they were traveling
around in their buses, she and a coupleothers were the midwives and there
were like women giving birth in theirbuses, traveling around the country.
Yes.
Love it.
Incredible.
Which is super radical for the seventies.
Yes.
Yeah.
Powerful.
Very.
Yeah.
Yeah, they're incredible.
And then they also had this programfor any women who did, like, who

(40:57):
would get pregnant and they, and theylike, could not support an A child.

Mike (41:01):
Yeah.
They

Ally (41:02):
had a program where you could come and, um, and live there for your whole
pregnancy and be supported by all themembers of the community with, you know,
herbal care support, just like pregnancy,prenatal support, how empowering for

Mike (41:14):
that mother Uhhuh.

Ally (41:15):
And then you could give birth there at the community
and then you could choose.
To leave your baby there to beadopted by the community and you
could leave, or you could staythere continuously with your baby.
And actually 90% of these womenstayed there in community.
So like, that's who founded.
That's amazing.
It's just, it's incredible.
Yeah.
You can find the strength

Katie (41:35):
in

Ally (41:35):
that, you know, alone.
It's, it's too hard to do alone.
Yeah.
It's, it's like you really, it,it takes a village, you know?
It does

Josh (41:41):
take a village.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which brings up

Katie (41:43):
another thing of being face to face exactly.
How different interactionsare face to face.
You can say anything on the internet anddo all sorts of crazy things, but once
we're mingling shoulder to shoulder,we're gonna find a common ground.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, even if you come in fromdifferent communities, there's, people
just wanna find a way to connect.
Yeah.
And when you're face to face, it'sso much easier to just be like,

(42:05):
we're just flesh and bones humansand we have so much in common, even
if we're from different countries.
Yeah.
You know?
Yes.
They, they want us

Mike (42:12):
to focus on our differences and get, get people fighting so
that they don't join up to like.
Right.
Go against what's actually likecausing all the harm in the country.
Yeah.
When we, when people sit down,down together, we realize we
have way more in common than you.
Way more in common.
Mm-hmm.
And we do different and things thatthey try and make a big deal that are
different aren't actually a big deal.
That's why these events are

Josh (42:30):
so important too.
Yeah.
Even the grassroots, justsmaller events, you're just
getting together and showing up

Ally (42:34):
Yep.

Josh (42:35):
For your community.

Ally (42:36):
Yeah.
That's what we're trying to dois like, we wanna open up as
a campground similar to this.
Uh, we, we do hip camp right now Okay.
In the woods, but we'dlove to host events.
We actually got married last year and itwas our first Soul Fire Forest Festival.
Soul Fire Forest is our community.
And Dixon's Violin playedall Dixon's in the woods.
It was like the mostmagical experience ever.

(42:58):
That's beautiful.
It was the best.
It was

Josh (43:00):
best was great time.
We were just all in tie die.
Is that where you guys tookpictures of you guys last fall?
All dressed up at that wedding.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Was that that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's our wedding.
Awesome.
I saw those photos.
Those are cool.
Yeah, and

Ally (43:11):
we had like fairy wings.
So like one of my favorite moments wasthat my dad who's like very not, you
know, part of this vibe was like, um,getting impatient for dinner because
like after the wedding we were justall dancing to Dixon's violin and
he was like, well, you know, there'sjust a bunch of fairies dancing in the
woods, so we decided to go to dinner.
And I'm like, yes, that's my vibe.
Alright.

(43:32):
That's my vibe.

Katie (43:35):
Oh yes.
Thank you for recognizing, appreciate.
That's

Ally (43:37):
exactly it.
Yes.
Thanks dad.
Oh man.

Katie (43:41):
See,

Monisha (43:41):
I feel seen, I have found coming to pyro Is that
like in searching for community?
It's that it's here and it'sthere and it's happening now and
like nobody else is gonna do it.
We gotta build it ourselves together.
And that's been like.
That's really showed me whatcommunity is about coming to pyro.

Mike (44:05):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
It was a pyro a couple years ago.
Like there was a group of people that werelike, this needs to be our full-time life.
And they, they put, they had like aFacebook group and they were trying
to like, find property together inlike Michigan or Ohio so that they
could start an intentional community.
Yeah.
It's so cool.
We can do it.
So inspiring.
We're doing it.
We

Ally (44:21):
are doing it right now.
Mm-hmm.
Like this is practice for doing it.

Mike (44:25):
Mm-hmm.
All the time.
Absolutely.
Yeah.

Ally (44:27):
We always say every time we come to pyro, we're like, this is
going to be our life every day.
Yeah.
Like, that is my goal is thatlike, every day feels like this.
I'm surrounded by people that I love.
There's music, there'sdancing, there's joy.

Mike (44:39):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.

Ally (44:40):
Absolutely.
My kids are safe.
They have kids to play with.
They have adults that can inspire them.
Like, that's my dream.
Absolutely.

Mike (44:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we got talking to Bim, the, the guythat owns this property earlier, and
man, he's a, he's a cool human and theway he's wanting to start community.
Yeah.

Josh (44:52):
Yeah, we actually started Cating, we actually know Bim go way back.
We were gonna have our wedding hereand then pandemic hit and whatnot.
So yeah, we

Katie (45:00):
did a backyard instead.
But it's fine.
The

Josh (45:03):
Willow Ranch is really, really amazing.
And like the backstory, if you askbim, he inherited it from his family
and they used it as a trash dump.
And so they had to clean up somuch and like, not this one.
Um, we're on the back trail right now, sothe middle trail, they call it Tire Road.
Mm-hmm.
And they literally have likevaried tires in the road.

Katie (45:22):
Yeah.
You could feel it kind of bounce.
There's rubber tires allunder the dirt call tire

Josh (45:26):
road.
Wow.
So yeah, they've reallytransformed this property.
And like when I started coming outhere, there was no pond here, there
was no center trail like this.
These tiny houses built none ofthe tiny houses over here like.

Katie (45:38):
This, we hung out here when we were dating, so it's been quite a while

Josh (45:42):
to watch.
Yeah, I started comingout here in 2014, so yeah.

Ally (45:44):
Okay.
And it's genius the way he's figuredout how to do it, because so many
townships are against building tinyhomes and community and the we, he, we
were talking to, 'cause we're tryingto figure this out for ourselves and we
were just like, oh my god, that's genius.
Everyone just needs to do this.
Like he's, it's a campground.
That's it.
So he's just got a, um, likeyou can, in this township, you
can have four, what was it?
Four, um, camps.

(46:05):
Four campsite campsitebefore you get a permit.
So he did that for a while.
Four campsite.
And then once he got the permit,um, then he just, like, the rules
were he had to have like for every50 sites, you had to have one water,
two water ts, two water spigots.
Um, and then, and then once you getthat, you can be a primitive campground.
Mm-hmm.
Which means that you can build cabins.

(46:27):
Yeah.
So then he has people sign acontract saying, oh, we're only
gonna stay here for 30 days.
And so then he is got the paperwork of,oh, these are campers that are staying
mm-hmm.
. Right.
Yeah.
And
that just invites the community,humans that just wanna
move around and be nomadic.
That's interesting to know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Are you

Josh (46:43):
taking this down?

Mike (46:45):
Yeah.
Right.
He's coming farthernorth so I I can feel it.
Oh, he is, he is.

Joseph (46:53):
Can community dude.
Yeah.
How life

Monisha (46:58):
c Thank you guys for all sharing.
Thank you so

Ally (47:01):
much for asking.
Yeah.
Thanks for stopping us.
This was awesome.
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, I love you guys.
We love to have these conversations.
So you're starting at yourintentional community in, you said

Zoe (47:12):
Northeastern?
Northeastern Arizona.
Arizona, yeah.
St. John's is the, the closestcity that's nearby, but it's
pretty far out in the boonies.
Like it doesn't look very far away onthe map, but St. John's is like a half
an hour away from all of the dirt roadsthat we have to take to get to the land.
So you do like a half an hour of drivingthrough dirt roads and then you're on like
real roads and you can drive to the town.
It's kind of cool.
Okay, cool.
It's out in the middle of the boonies.

(47:33):
Um, but there's a bunch of parcels, um,that also like are connected and owned by
different people and they're all 40 acres.
And so we have a 40 acre one.
There's a 40 acre oneabandoned next to us.
Yes.
Oh wow.
That we're gonna try and get as well.
'cause apparently you just have topay the back taxes on it or something.
Oh, amazing.
Yeah.
And then you just take overownership and it's, it's directly
connected to the parcel that we have.

(47:54):
Um, that would be convenient.
So then we'd have 80 and that'dbe really cool, but 40 is great.
There's already a huge like industrialgreenhouse on the property and a camper.
Um, oh my gosh.
And so the camper's gonna be likeour community hangout space, I guess.
Awesome.
Kind of our, our, thecenter of our community.
'cause then the greenhouseis right by that.
Um, and yeah, we want togrow all kinds of vegetables.

(48:16):
Um, tobacco, marijuana, fruit trees.
Apparently that area is really,really good for growing fruit trees.
And then, so all the neighbors,everybody has like a thing that
they do, which is really, that'salready like this is already there.
You gotta, we just like foundan inn into this community.
Um, and like, but they all kindof exist separately right now.
But we've been talking to them andkind of bringing everybody together

(48:37):
and like, one person has goats anddoes goat milk and has too much
goat milk and is giving it away.
And another person has chickens andthey do the eggs and everything.
Another person does the well drilling.
Um, so they're gonna drill thewell on the property for us.
That's amazing.
Someone else has a metal forgeand like an excavator and he's
like, yeah, use it whenever.
Like, we can trade for stuff.
And like, so there's alreadythat kind of foundation there.

(48:57):
But then we met a group of, Iwanna say there's about 10 people.
That all have the like-mindedself sustainability kind of living
outside of the normal societalstructure that is here now.
Yep.
Um, and wanting to, to build a community.
And so they connected in the desert,um, spent an entire month just getting

(49:18):
to know each other and honestlyhealing with each other and growing
with each other was a beautiful month.
Um, and now they aredoing the physical work.
Now we're going to start buildingup the, building up the community.
So.

Ally (49:30):
Oh, I'm so happy for you.
I'm so excited.
Like, tearing up.
Excited.

Mike (49:33):
That's so exciting.
That's wonderful.
Excited.
You're still gonna come backhere to Pyro though, right?

Zoe (49:36):
I'm hoping so I How long of a drive

Ally (49:38):
is it

Zoe (49:39):
like 30 or did you come 30?
I haven't been out there yet, actually.
Oh, okay,

Ally (49:43):
okay.
Yeah.
And where do you live now?

Zoe (49:44):
I live in Wayne right now.
That's right.
Will Podunk, Wayne, Ohio.
Yeah, there's like 800 people in the town.
It's a cute little town.
Um, but 'cause we actually wantedto start our community there.
We found a 20 acre propertywith a trailer on it, and.
We really wanted to, and we were tryingand like trying to take the steps
and it's like nothing was working andno avenues were opening up for us.

(50:05):
That wasn't it.
And then it just kind ofclicked that like it's not Yeah.
This isn't where it's supposed to be.
Yeah.
And then since we found the lane inArizona, everything has just Yep.
Flown.
Yeah.

Mike (50:15):
When meant to be, it goes a lot easier.
It's very

Zoe (50:18):
true.
That is very true.

Mike (50:19):
Like sometimes you've gotta like push a little bit, but if you've gotta
like, just be constantly pushing andpushing and pushing and not getting
anywhere, you gotta let go sometimes.
Yeah, exactly.

Ally (50:27):
Have you ever read The Alchemist?
No.
Um, it's really good.
But it's about like, it's a, it'sfictional about this guy trying to
go on his personal legend, but hetalks about like at the beginning.
Okay.
You can go say hi to your

Zoe (50:42):
friend.
Oh, you did tell me.
Thank you so much.
Um, so

Ally (50:50):
along his journey, um, he first like notices like all these signs,
like, okay, yes, I'm on the right track.
Mm-hmm.
And then come the

Mike (50:58):
test.

Ally (50:58):
Mm. Where it's like, do you really want it though?
Yes.
We're gonna make you work for it.
Yes.
You're gonna have somehard work right here.
And then if you get through that, shh.
It's all yours.

Zoe (51:06):
That is easy.
Yes, that is.
Oh my gosh.
That's crazy.
That's how it's beengoing right now for me.
Yep.
So through this whole transitional periodthat I've been in, um, I decided one of
the things I've, that me and the kids aredoing, we're selling everything obviously.
'cause we're moving out to Arizona,so we're selling everything uhhuh.
But the kids and I bought abus, well, I bought a bus, I
guess they didn't help much.
Um, and we are going to kindof just take some us time.

(51:29):
Some me time.
Yes.
And we're gonna travel.
We're gonna make like a big loop aroundthe country before we land in Arizona.
Oh, amazing.
Um, we're Well, if you

Ally (51:36):
loop upwards, you can stay so far, forest.
For sure.

Zoe (51:39):
Oh my gosh, that would be amazing.
Yes.
I know.
I've been making these littleconnections of people are like, bring
the bus, come stay for a little.
I'm like, sweet.
Like, my route's already play.
And that's one of the thingsthat's been flowing is like, yeah.
Like my, I have no idea whereI'm gonna go, but it's like
my route has just been Yep.
Like, Hey, stop here.
Hey, stop here.
Bread curls as you're going.
Yeah.
Yep.
What?

Mike (51:58):
It'll open up if you're going Yes,

Zoe (51:59):
I know.
And that's the other thing.
Yeah.
You just follow the flow.
Mm-hmm.
And the flow just takes you And have you

Ally (52:04):
seen um, Amber Echo's bus?

Zoe (52:06):
No.

Ally (52:07):
Oh my gosh.
You know Amber Echo that played?
She's playing today.
Yeah.
Did we miss her?
See, I know of her, honestly.
Yeah, she's really incredible.
Yeah.
And she gave us a tour of herbus she took or Beautiful.
It's not a bus.
It's a, yeah, it's a bus.
And she took the ceiling and raised it up.

Zoe (52:23):
Is that roof?
Raised bus?
Hers.
So that's kind of up front.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Yes.
Go inside.
It's so beautiful.
I saw the outside and Iwas like, it's gorgeous.
I inside.
Oh

Mike (52:33):
my God.
What?
It's like going intolike, like a habit home.
Like that's in the, the, the side of thehill going in their bus is like that.

Zoe (52:40):
That's, that's what I wanted to be.
Yes.
It's magical.
Like, wow.
That's incredible.
Yeah.
You should go check it out.
Yeah.
We're,

Mike (52:45):
when we post this, um, when we post this episode, we're gonna
post a couple pictures that we got.

Zoe (52:49):
Awesome.
Yeah.
Yay.
Oh, wow.
Well, I'm glad we.
Yeah, that was cool.
That flowed nicely.
See when it's supposed toflow, it flows with the flow.
When you talk

Mike (52:58):
about the things you're passionate about, it comes up so easily.
It

Zoe (53:01):
does.
Yeah, it does.
And I've been doing that 'causethat's what, Thomas is always
the talker in our relationship.
You know what I mean?
And so I've never reallylike flexed that muscle.
Oh.
Like I know all these things.
And you'll talk about spiritual stuff too.
Like I know all of these thingsand I believe them and I live them.
But like articulating itis where it's been hard.
Yeah.
And I've been able to, I've connectedwith a few people this weekend and
shared some spiritual things, sharedthe things about the community.

(53:22):
Yeah.
You know, whatever.
And yeah, it just, I wastalking and it flowed and it
was beautiful and it felt good.
Yeah,

Mike (53:28):
we'll definitely connect with Amber too, because she's
starting this network of like, ofcommunities around the country.
Oh, cool.
And they're like, they're travelingaround to like different, different
places and, um, I, I'm so bummed.
I like, she told us about this, the, um,first night we talked to her and then we
forgot to ask her about it when we didan episode with her, but like, do a full,
full episode with her in the future.
She's talking about, um, was it, uh,this network called Echo Locations

(53:50):
where like there's like a, we likemaker space and like gardens and Oh wow.
Yeah.

Ally (53:55):
That's beautiful.
There's so many community humans here.
I know that's like, you know, wetalk to, we're just talking to a
group back there and there's likesomebody who founded a community down
in Kentucky and then we come downhere and there's you and us and Yeah.
And you guys, yeah, too.
I love it.
We're all community humans.
I know.
It's crazy.
'Zoe: cause I've honestly had these thoughts literally like my whole life.
Like, I remember being a child andthinking about like, you know, why don't

(54:18):
we just trade, you know, chicken for.
Pork or, you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah.
Like I had the idea of like what, withouteven being taught what it was beforehand.
Just like, why don't we do this?
Like, what is money?
Why do we do it this way?
And it's stupid.
And like wanting to be in communityand like not school, like Earth
School and Nature School and like,I mean, most kids don't like school,

(54:38):
but there's a reason for that.
'cause it's messed up.
I know you guys know, but anyway.
Yeah, no.
Like I've always had these thoughts oflike, this is how we should be living.
Yeah.
And then, you know, I grewup and Oh, this is how it is.
Yep.
You know?
And so then you just fall into that.
And now like trying to come backout of it is honestly kind of hard.
Yes ma'am.
I can.
Yeah.
It is hard.
And by the way, this property

Mike (54:59):
here is an intentional community as well.
That's what

Zoe (55:01):
I

Ally (55:01):
thought, Uhhuh.
Because

Zoe (55:01):
there's

Ally (55:02):
people that actually live here.
Yeah.
And the way that hedoes it is really cool.
We were just talking to him.
It's a campground.
Yeah.
So it's listed as a campground.
He started out with saying he only hadfour sites because in this county you
can have four sites without a permit.
Weird.
Um, and then once he had enough money,he got the permit, um, and was able,
you have to get like a certain amountof water per every 50 sites or whatever.

(55:23):
And then he got the permit, and then hecan label himself as primitive camping.
And when you're primitivecampground, you can build cabins.
Mm. So then he is got all these cabins.
Yeah.
And tiny, like tiny houses.
Yes.
Yeah.
Um, but they're, they're campground.
Um, yeah.
So they're not homes.
They don't have to be parceledand all that kind of stuff.
That's really cool.
And he just has people sign acontract at the beginning saying

(55:45):
that they're only staying for 30days because that's how long you're
allowed to camp here in the county.
Yeah.
That is genius.

Zoe (55:52):
We're trying to,
we are trying to get the land and all thepeople on the community to be sovereign.

Mike (55:59):
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (56:00):
Like fully sovereign land.
Sovereign citizens.
Yes.
Citizens of the land followingthe law of the land like that is.
And it's doable.
And actually one of the peoplethat we met in that group of
10 is a lawyer, an ex-lawyer.

Monisha (56:13):
Oh.
And

Zoe (56:13):
knows how to do it because it is a very, very complicated process to get
your sovereignty from the governmentbecause they don't want you to.
So they make you go through all theseloopholes and they'll just red tape and
this process so he knows how to do it.
And it's still gonna be probablya long process per person.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but that is something that's one ofour, one of our big goals is we wanna get
everybody literally to step outside ofthis system and we are going to exist just

(56:37):
as beings of the land, the way that we aremeant to, the way that we're supposed to.

Ally (56:44):
Yeah.
My youngest, I didn't get abirth certificate for her because
I wanted her to be sovereign.
Mm-hmm.
But then, like we were going througha financial rough spot, so we got
food stamps, so they're like, oh,you have to have a birth certificate.
Um,

Mike (56:55):
really for safety.
You guys live in for food stamps?
This one.
Really?
Yeah.

Zoe (56:58):
Interesting.
Yeah, because I, I, in Ohio?
Yeah.
He doesn't have a birth certificateand I've got food stamps for him.
And it was funny.
Oh, weird.
When I went to go re-up my food stamps,I forgot that I had signed him up.
And so I said something about, it'sjust me and my daughter living here.
And she's like, oh, what about Maximus?
I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Him too, because I completely forgot.
And you get

Ally (57:16):
money for him too?
Mm-hmm.
They've been hounded me about it.
Really?
But you know how it is with a homebirth with no midwife present.
So I'm like, it's, I have to gothrough all these hoops to get the
birth certificate and I'm explainingall the hoops as I'm just very
slowly walking through the hoops.
Yes.
And she still doesn't have one.
And I'm like, maybe Ijust like not get one.

(57:36):
They've threatened to take the money off.
They did.
They did take it off.
Yeah.
It's been gone for

Mike (57:40):
like a year

Ally (57:40):
now.
Oh yeah.
Right.
So now like, oh, so theway, like, it's so stupid.
You have to have all thislike, proof of where she was
born and I, I have none of it.
'cause she hasn't been to the doctor,she hasn't done all this stuff.
Yeah.

Zoe (57:53):
But I'm like, I know.
I just don't

Ally (57:55):
wanna put her in this system because I, I looked

Zoe (57:57):
into it because I wanted to get them passports.
Yeah.
Just in case anything goes wrong.
And you can, you can get a passport.
You can without a birth certificate.

Ally (58:05):
Yes.
Um, so do you know the indiebirth community at all?
Not really.
Um, they talk about it on that, um,the indie birth, A woman who started
indie birth, Marin, her husband.
Um, he has a businesscalled The Sovereign.
I'll send it to you.
Yes, please.
Yeah.
And, um, they have 11 kids.
None of them have, they've all, likehalf of them were born with birth

(58:27):
certificates, half of them weren't.
Yeah.
They've all gotten ridof all of their stuff.
They're all sovereign citizens.
That's amazing.
And they all have passports.
Wow.
And they don't vaccinate.
Yeah.
And they travel the world.
Yeah.
You just have to know how to do it.
That lawyer that's, yeah.
That he

Zoe (58:40):
might, yeah.
There we go.
I'm so thankful that they foundhim that he was a part of that.
'cause like it's alwaysbeen one of our goals.
It wasn't like we met this lawyer andhe is like, I know how to do this.
And we're like, yeah, let's do that.
Like, that's kind of beena plan from the beginning.
Yeah.
Is being sovereign citizens fullystepping out of this society.
Yeah.
I love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just do it.

Ally (58:57):
Well we're here talking about, um, so we've been asking
people what community means to them.
And I know you're a big part ofthe pyro community because you've
got a food truck, you're in theband, you're all over the place.
Can you tell me yourdaughter's in the band as well?

Willie (59:11):
Yeah.
Yep.
And uh, so this whole community Igot introduced to, um, we started
our band Pillars of Rome and our,we used to play Coyote Grove.
I don't know if you're familiar.
It's in Ohio.
Uhhuh.
And, um, somebody there heard us playand was like, you guys need to play pyro.

(59:31):
You need to play pyro.
I'm gonna tell Joe and uh.
They told Joe and um, Joe was throwinganother show that wasn't a pyro.
It was called Full Moon Rise.
Okay.
Yeah.
And it was, it was Natalie Rise,um, um, E Eli and The Enigma,
us Lana Panda and Oh yeah.
A couple other people.
But, um, so that was my first Joe show.

(59:52):
And what had happened is he, he bookedus on the show and, um, somebody
was supposed to do sound, but itwas, uh, this community is crazy.
It's, um, they never solidified it.

Mike (01:00:08):
Uhhuh.

Willie (01:00:08):
And Joe found out I did sound, and I knew the sound people that he
hired that, or that he thought hehired and they thought they were me.
It's all a mess.
Oh yeah.
But, um, I was like, you know, Ido sound man, like, you know, hey.
And he's like, all right,great man, how much?
And I was, I was like,I'll tell you what, man.
I'll do it for 500 bucks ifyou put my band on Pirate.
And he was like, yeah,man, the more the merrier.

(01:00:29):
Let's do it all.
Right.
Right.
And I'm like, I'm like, yes.
So we, so we that.
And then, um, after he heard me dosound at Fulman Rise, he was like, Hey
man, look, we're, we got two stagesand, uh, do you wanna do it like, like
you wanna do the mountain stage, man?
I was like, you know, and I'd never donesound for a festival like pyro before

Ally (01:00:50):
Uhhuh.

Willie (01:00:51):
I had worked at, um, the Kent Stage in Kent, Ohio.

Mike (01:00:54):
Okay.

Willie (01:00:54):
So I, I've done bigger acts, Uhhuh, but I never did a big festival.
I've played 'em, but never like, soI was like, all right, let's do it.
And that first fallpyro the community here.
All

Ally (01:01:07):
I know.
Yeah, I know.
As we're talking to people,we're all just tearing up

Willie (01:01:13):
because that man every just.
There were so many hurdles,

Mike (01:01:20):
Uhhuh.

Willie (01:01:20):
So the scheduling, the freaking, um, um, just, I don't know, man.
It was just pyro.
Yeah, yeah.
And, uh, festival time andseeing how everybody just
like, Willie, what do you need?
All right, let's do that.
Hey, what do we, what do we putthis person here and do that?
Da da da da.
And I'm like, okay.
You know, and like, I, I caught onimmediately, like what it was about,

(01:01:41):
because I, I followed the dead.
Um, I did further tours and stuff.
Like I, I'm an old deadhead, so yeah.
Um, been there and uh, and you know, onthe lot, man, when you're on dead lot,
like back in the day, like you could justyell out into the crowd like, I need this.
And somebody's like, I got you.
You know, like boom, boom, boom.
Beautiful.
That's how it used to be.

(01:02:01):
That's how, that's how,that's how I grew up with it.
You know, like literally you could walkout there and go, anybody got trash bags?
And somebody would belike, yeah, over here.
I mean, I've, I've been on lot,I've been on lot where I've yelled
out, I need a carjack, you know?
Or no lie.
Yeah.
Um, and, and, uh, just randomstuff and like, that's what

(01:02:21):
that community was all about.

Mike (01:02:23):
Oh, yeah.

Willie (01:02:24):
And I look at the festival community, like pyro, especially,
like, especially Pyro had it, it, it,it appears to, it seems to me like
the dead community, um, which, youknow, spawned from the sixties and
everything, just kind of, um, this isthe evolution of it, of that community.

Mike (01:02:44):
Mm-hmm.
Yes.

Willie (01:02:45):
It really is.
Like it's, and it's not aboutthe dead, it's not about that,
but I see it everywhere I go.
In this festival, how the foundationthat was laid on lot is, is here.
Like, and, and, and it's, um.
Without the tanks.
Yeah.
And I'm not against Whippets, butit is so nice not hearing that.

(01:03:09):
Yeah.
All night long.
Yeah.
And that's, and, and the communityhere, like, you know, um, that's, that
it's, uh, everybody pulls together.
Mm-hmm.
Like the spring pyro that had allthe controversy and like with all
that mud, all like that mud fest.

(01:03:30):
I mean, just seeing the wayeverybody pulled together.
Right.
And they all pulled together and Imean, pushing those cars nonstop.
Just nonstop.
Like everybody, like somebodygets stuck in the mud.
Five people are like, you know,and they're out there with the
tractor 24 7, man, like towing.
Just, if somebody was stuck, that tractorwas going there and they were towing it

(01:03:53):
or everybody was pushing and like, um, itthat, that, that, you know, with all the
controversy that was going on with that.
Yeah.
You could see the communitytruly like, let's make this work.
Yeah.
Let's make it work.
And make it work.
Right?
Yeah.
And like, you know, not, not letthis, bring it completely down.

(01:04:15):
Yeah.
And that was important.
And it, it really like, it wascool, it was really nice to see
and, and know that this exists.
You know, that's another thing withthis community is I, I, I always tell
people, like, you know, you look backover the history of humans and stuff,
and it's like, it's really cool.

(01:04:36):
It, it's nice to see that this does exist.
Yep.
Yeah.
Within our society, within oureveryday life that you can, you
know, we're, we're travelers andwe we're, we're, it, it, it, um,
it, sometimes it's unfortunatewhen things like health departments
get involved and things.
Mm-hmm.
But I know they do it for a reason, but

Mike (01:04:56):
mm-hmm.

Willie (01:04:57):
It's a lot of money too.
Yeah.
You know, like Totally.
You know, I had to pay the healthdepartment $250 to bend this.

Mike (01:05:04):
Yeah.
Just

Willie (01:05:05):
to get an inspection and bend it and you know, and if
you're from outta state, you don'thave a license here or whatever.
Like all these, all the food vendors hadto pay and they did inspections and Yeah.
You know, and then they walk tocampground and, and it's a good thing
too, because a lot of people get food.
Like, I, I I heard a story.
Yes.
Yesterday or day before somebodytold me that they got bad food

(01:05:26):
poisoning from a vegetarian one, um,vendor no less one time because they
were set up next to a porta potty.

Ally (01:05:33):
Oh man.

Willie (01:05:35):
You know, like that's the kind of thing that,

Ally (01:05:37):
but I wonder if like, you know, you

Willie (01:05:38):
think like stuff is like, isn't needed, but

Ally (01:05:41):
Yeah.
There's

Willie (01:05:42):
certain standards that need to be,

Ally (01:05:44):
but could it be so like there's the garden community.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And um, I don't know if you knowanything about them, but they're
very, very particular abouthow they prepare their food.
Oh yeah.
So.
Like, what if instead of this outsideauthority source was doing it?
Well, we could do it from the communityof like, well, you just have rules with

Willie (01:06:03):
our community.
Yeah,

Ally (01:06:05):
yeah.

Willie (01:06:05):
But you gotta look at it in a bigger, wider Totally.
Yeah.
The world stage uhhuh.
Right.
Like, it's not just us.
Right.
So Yeah.
And they ain't gonna go by the rules.
Yeah.
You know, like they're gonna, and,and I know, and us too, like in our
community, man, there's, you know,like, it's like, well, that's all right.
You know?
Yeah.
I mean, it happens, you know?

(01:06:26):
Totally.
There's, there's people that don't,aren't, aren't at that level where they
want to take care of things correctly.

Mike (01:06:31):
Mm-hmm.

Willie (01:06:31):
They want, they want to just get it done and cut corners or, you
know, or they don't see anythingwrong with what they're doing.
Sure.
Just because they'renot educated, you know?
And education's important.
Right.
Um, so, so when you deal with healthdepartments and the way that, like, we're
a society and it's a big society with alot of different avenues and beliefs, and

(01:06:51):
sometimes you gotta have somebody that.

Mike (01:06:53):
Yeah.
You

Willie (01:06:54):
know, like, like in our community, we, we have people that set standards,

Mike (01:06:57):
uhhuh We do.
And

Willie (01:06:58):
enforce things.
Yeah.
You know, like, you know the stories.
Yeah.
You know, somebody spun out and take'em in the woods and let 'em calm
down and like, you know, but there'speople in charge of that, like, yeah.
And so, and oh this,
can we pause?
Yeah.
This is like one of myfavorite songs of all done.
Uh, where, okay, where were we?

(01:07:20):
Oh yeah, I love that song.

Ally (01:07:21):
What was the song?
So,

Willie (01:07:22):
all right.
So, um, man on the Moon, um.
The guy's name is Joe Powers.

Ally (01:07:27):
Okay.
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Willie (01:07:28):
He's from Marion, Ohio.
Um, and I don't know what it isabout that song, like it's, it's
not even the story behind it.
Um, it's just something about thatsong and his voice has made me wa just,

Mike (01:07:42):
yeah.

Willie (01:07:42):
I had tears over there.
Like, I love how got that.
It's so cute.
That and that particular song at theright time, there's been a couple
of times it's just pleasing to hear,but sometimes it's like, and maybe
it was telling you the stories.
Um, yeah.
But yeah, Joe Powers and that, um,man On the Moon are me and the Man
on the Moon, but it's about a, it, itwas about, it's about addiction and

(01:08:04):
I've never went through that mm-hmm.
Personally, but familymembers, stuff like that.
Mm-hmm.
And for obvious, youknow, friends and stuff.
Mm-hmm.
But, um, you know, that thatsong is about him losing his kid.
And then fighting to getclean and to get his kid back.
And it's all about being with theman on the moon and, you know, oh.

(01:08:24):
And, uh, and he's been clean for, uh,several years now and Oh, you know,
and he got his son back and everything.
But, um, yeah, that's, it's so knowingthe what's behind those songs, like
sometimes that, but it's not even thatstory that gets it, it's just, so when
I heard it, I was like, I gotta go.
'cause I want, because I've beenwanting to catch that all day.

(01:08:45):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
We

Mike (01:08:45):
completely understand.
It's amazing how music can do that.
And there's some, there's songsI've had where I've, like, I've
heard in the background and, andI've like, I would like add, I would
be like, oh, I like that sound.
Add to my playlist.
I wouldn't really pay attention.
And one day all of a suddenI'm notice the lyrics.
I'm like, wait a second.
Yeah.
And like, it really, like itcompletely changes that song.
Yep.

Ally (01:09:02):
Right at the right moment.
Absolutely.
When you really need that medicine.

Willie (01:09:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, that Wiki Foot did that for me.
I, uh, I was married for, uh, 19 yearsand we sat, we split ways and, uh.
Um, I probably would've got depressed.
I mean, we were, we're stilllike great friends and all that.
Like it wasn't, um, it wasn't abad breakup or anything like that.

(01:09:24):
We just grew apart and it was like mm-hmm.
You know, hey, like I thinkit's, you know, kind of over.
So, but I think I would've gotten alot more depressed and it probably
went through that whole motionUhhuh, you know, that natural
motion you go through, hadn't it?
But I just started listeningto Wookie Foot, like ah,

Ally (01:09:44):
yes.

Willie (01:09:45):
And those last three albums that they've gone like Really?
Yeah.
And Mike Love.
So it was a, it was a, it was acombo of those two artists that
I had just, um, because of Firo.
Um, like I've always listened toreggae and stuff like that, but
I never stumbled onto Mike Love.
Yeah.
And I never, and for whateverreason, I have no idea why I

(01:10:06):
never stumbled on the W Foot.
I've been around for like, I didn't

Ally (01:10:08):
until last year.
Yeah.

Willie (01:10:09):
They've been around 25 years.
Like

Ally (01:10:11):
Yeah.
I met them for the first timelast year and I was like, what?
Like they have this one lyricthat's my favorite of all of theirs.
That's right.
Um, some people are so damn poor,all they have is their money.

Willie (01:10:22):
Yeah.

Ally (01:10:22):
I love that.

Willie (01:10:24):
I do too.
I do too.

Mike (01:10:26):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
We know some people

Willie (01:10:28):
like that.
Yeah.
I've done all these pyres and I've,uh, the last summer pyre, I finally met
Mark and uh, you know, it was just like,because I'm always doing the other stages.
Oh, oh yeah, you, I'm always doingthe stage that they're not on Uhhuh,
and I was finally like, the stage thatthey were on, so I was like, I get

Mike (01:10:46):
the be part finally.
Yeah, we were hoping to talk tohim last night and, uh, but yeah,
we had this guy, we had to get tosleep and we're just wiped out.
I get it.

Ally (01:10:52):
Yeah.
I was so bummed.
We didn't get to see him this year,but his bed clock is 10 o'clock and
we're like, he is done at 10 o'clock.
We can't go out parent life, you know?
So yeah.
Parent

Willie (01:11:02):
life, I was a stay at home dad.
Uh, I was a stay at homeparent for 12 years or so.
Um, my ex-wife's an attorney,so Uhhuh it kind of led to,
you know, it, it was like that.
And, uh, I don't know, man, being,you know, I, I was always, I always
wanted to be in the music business.
I always wanted to be, um, you know,do that life and I just never did.

(01:11:26):
I was always a cook and, um.
But I always played, and Ireally dabbled in recording.
Like I started with a littlecassette tape and board track, and
then digital and then computer.
And, um, when I became a stay, whenI became a stay home, uh, parent at
thir, like I 33 is when I 30, yeah.

(01:11:49):
33 I think is when we had at Dara.
I'm, I'll be 53 this in, uh, September.
And, uh, I just study, you know, duringnap times I'm watching YouTube videos.
I'm learning, yeah.
I'm learning more and more and moreabout e equalization and all this.
And I had a basement studio and I, uh,joined bands when I first moved to Ohio.

(01:12:09):
And, um, like I, I didn'tget on stage until I was 35.

Ally (01:12:13):
Wow.

Willie (01:12:14):
Yeah.
And I play hundreds and hundredsof shows now, but it's like.
I was 35 before I stepped foot on astage and actually played my first show.
Show.
Oh

Mike (01:12:23):
man.
Oh wow.

Willie (01:12:23):
That's, and I sat in with a band or too, over the years,
you know, in bars and stuff.
Yeah.
No big, no big deal,but like an actual show.
And, uh, and

Ally (01:12:31):
you guys are amazing.
Thank

Willie (01:12:32):
you.
Yeah, I appreciate that.

Mike (01:12:34):
I was 46 when I did my first open mic with her.
44, 5 or 46.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Willie (01:12:42):
Um, and then, so, so I got, um, got into the music thing and,
uh, you know, my daughter was alwaysdown in the basement, like mm-hmm.
And I, I tried to get her, I got herinterested in music early on, like maybe
three or so, like, you know, I got hera little drum kit and, and then, um, as

(01:13:02):
she got older, um, I never pushed it.

Ally (01:13:05):
Yeah, that's the key.
She

Willie (01:13:06):
might say differently,
but I did not push music on her.
I, I, I, I would ask her like, Hey,do you wanna learn how to do this?
Do you wanna learn how to do that?
And like.
And I, and, and I, you know, would tryto show her stuff and she would lose.
She just didn't want it, you know?
Yeah.
And I, and I didn't push it.
Yeah.
And then when she was in fifth grade,the music program, you know, and

(01:13:27):
they're like, if you want to be inthe band, you know, music uhhuh.
So she want, she waswondering what to choose.
And, uh, she was leaning towards trombone.
I was like, don't do trombone.
I was like, um, I was like,if you're gonna do a horn
or something, do saxophone.
Because if you, if you decidethat it's something you want to do

(01:13:48):
after college, you know, it seemslike, well now it's different.
But I, at the time, I, Ithought that there would be more
opportunities for saxophone player.
Yeah.
As opposed to trumpet or trombone.
And, yeah, I'm wrong.
I mean, I see so many bands nowthat aren't, well, I don't know.
I came from Florida.
I was so used to ska.

Ally (01:14:09):
Where in Florida?
St. Pete.
Okay.
I grew up in St.
Pete's.
Yeah.
My van right outside of Tallahassee.
Okay, nice.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Willie (01:14:15):
I love Florida.

Ally (01:14:16):
Yeah.

Willie (01:14:16):
Um,

Mike (01:14:17):
one of our favorite bands is The Movement and I they they got
a Oh yeah, the trumpet in there.
Yeah.
Where did I, and he's playing the trumpetand the keyboard at the same time.
I'm like, what the hell?
Yeah, that's, I swear

Willie (01:14:26):
I've worked with him before somewhere.
It's a movement.
Like I can't, I don't know.
Were you at

Ally (01:14:31):
ever Wild Music Fest?
No.
I've never done Ever Wild?
Never.
We've never been either.
But they were there last year.
Yeah.
They were

Mike (01:14:36):
Shangrila too.
'cause Woo Foot wentto, went to Ever Wild.
And I'm guessing they connectedwith the movement there.
'cause after the, after Ever Wild.
Yeah.
Um, the movement was on the ShangrilaNice line up for last year too.
One of these days I'll make it to

Willie (01:14:49):
Shangrila.
Oh

Mike (01:14:50):
yeah, yeah.
Same.
We'd love to go.

Willie (01:14:53):
My daughter's been wanting to go forever.
Yeah.
For the last couple years.
But yeah, parenting withthe daughter, uh, she, so.
Music was always in my life because mydad was a drummer, but he never taught
me, like, it was kind of opposite.
If I tried to sit down with a drumkid, he'd be like, with drums,
you know, don't touch those.
Oh, yeah.
So, and then I took drums in highschool, but we moved so freaking

(01:15:16):
much that I went to 24 schoolsand I changed schools 46 times.
Wow.
Military?
No, not, oh, wow.
No, it was back in the day when,uh, your bills didn't follow you.
Oh, yeah.
You know, now your billsfollow, which is society like.
That's, that's a hugeimpact in society I think.
Like, yeah.
It used to be if you couldn't make itwork in a town or a city, you could pack

(01:15:40):
up and go somewhere else and start over.
You can't start over anymore.

Ally (01:15:44):
No.

Willie (01:15:45):
Oh yeah.
You get followed.
You really cannot start over anymoreas far as utilities and stuff go.
Like, you cannot start over.
Yeah.
It is all linked up and it's,that's a, that's kind of a weird
position that everyone has beenput in that they don't probably.
I realized it, I don't knowhow many people realized that.
Like it really used to be that way wherepeople would start over in a new town.
That's why there's songs about thatstarting over in a new town, you know,

(01:16:09):
and that you can't do that anymore.

Mike (01:16:11):
Yeah.

Willie (01:16:13):
I mean, that's a weird concept, you know?
But anyway, that's how I grew up.
And then, and then when they decidedto move somewhere else, they'd
have some money saved up and they'dpay off bills and mom, you know,
like, okay, we're, we're in Tampa.
Bill's our mom's name.
Okay, let's go back to Ohio, Columbus.
Oh, okay.
Or something.
All right.
Bills and mom's name there.
But let's go back to TampaBill's and dad's name.

(01:16:35):
Oh, nice.
Go back to Columbus Bills and dad's name.
You know, the bills are a dad's name.
Alright, we got enough money.
Let's go back to Florida and pay offthose bills and put it in your name again.
And like it, that's kind of how it worked.
Yeah.
You know, and um, youcan't do anything like that

Mike (01:16:50):
now.

Willie (01:16:52):
No.
Electric companies are electric companies.
Gas companies are gas companies.
Late.
You, you gotta pay that billand you can't start over.
It's weird.
Um, but that's how I grew.
But anyway, with, with my daughter,one school system, one town, the
whole, the whole get go and beinga parent, like, it's so weird.

(01:17:12):
Like I never pushed music on her, butshe learned, she, she started with the
saxophone and she just worked at it.
Worked at it, worked at it.
And like her freshman year, she was,um, section leader in marching band
and first chair in concert band.
Oh, cool.
And I had friends, you know, whenCOVID hit, I had a friend that taught
at a college and he, uh, put it, heapproached me and was like, I know

(01:17:36):
your daughter's really into sex.
I'll put him, put herin my roster and like.
You know, teacher.
Yeah.
So she was learning from a collegeprofessor, and I think that's
when it really hit her, youknow, like to do it seriously.
And then the first ro I, Itook her to, which was at
Southington, um, she saw Big Blitz.

(01:17:56):
Oh

Mike (01:17:57):
yeah.

Willie (01:17:58):
You know, and, uh, she just sat in with them the other night.
Oh, wow.
She cried.
She's like, they asked her to sit in there'cause we've become friends and stuff.
And they know, they know her andthey know their saxophone, you
know, saxophone nerds, you know.
Yeah.
And, uh, they, they, they've talkedabout it, but it finally happened.
She got to sit in with her, with herfavorite band, like, oh my gosh, how cool.

(01:18:21):
And she, she just like, but, but parent.
But so, so the whole, the whole,um, how we ended up doing, like,
you know, being a parent, it, uh.
It's really fun to, I, I havea lot of fun working with her.
We fight a lot, and I don't meanwe don't mean to, it just happens.
Mm-hmm.
Like, um, but it's so much fun.

(01:18:44):
Like, I never pushed music on her andour saxophone player and Pillars of Rome
was going to Japan for vacation and wehad spring pyro booked and we were like,
well, I was like, turtle can do it,you know, like, turtle can handle this.
And so, um, she, she learned the songs andshe played her first show ever, which was

(01:19:08):
pyro, you know, but it was a smaller pyro.
It was the Pavilion.
It was a spring one.
Was it the last

Mike (01:19:14):
one at the, at the Southington?
No,

Willie (01:19:17):
it wasn't the last one.
There was the last spring one there.
Yeah.
Mike Loveless Headliner.
Yep.
Yeah.
That was her first pyro.
That was my first, yeah.
Yeah.
That It was a good little pyro.
It was a nice pyro.
It was, it was a great.
Great envi.
Like it was good.
Yeah.
And then, um, and thenthe, the summer one, right?
Mm-hmm.
Um, we decided, turtle, if you want to bein a band, you're in the band, you know.

(01:19:39):
Oh, cool.
So she transcribed all the horn partsand got our lead horn player, like,
kind of roped him in and was like,you know, these are the parts hers,
the alto and tenor that you wrote.
But I got it.
And she like wrote out all thesheet music for all the songs.
Oh, cool.
And I, her junior year of highschool, man, she's on what, was there
like 8,000 people there that year?

(01:19:59):
Five?
I don't know.
Probably.
Which one?
Spring?
No, no, no.
The summer pyro where?
Dirt, wire, moon tricks.
Oh, that was, or maybe 6,000.
I mean there was a lot, there wasthousands of people and you know,
as a dad to put her on stage.
'cause we went right in betweendirt, wire and moon tricks.
Oh wow.
Right.
10 o'clock on a Friday night.

(01:20:20):
And it was just, youknow, a sea of people and.
As a, as a parent to be able to give thatopportunity and experience to your kid.
Yeah, yeah.
To have them on stage.
Yeah.
You know, at that ageUhhuh and experience that.

Mike (01:20:36):
Yeah.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
That's a story.
That's a story she remember.
I

Willie (01:20:40):
just felt like I, you know, I'm like, oh, I'm so happy I got
to give that to her, you know?
And, um, and she, uh, she just got roped.

Ally (01:20:51):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
And, and

Willie (01:20:52):
so she, she, she was, so when she went to college, she, um,
she wanted to be a music teacher.
And, um, her first like, semester,she's like, I don't want to do that.
Like, I don't, I don't want toteach, you know, and so she, um, her
major was, uh, sex form performanceand music theory and stuff.

(01:21:13):
And then all of a sudden she callsme one day and she goes, so I
decided to pick up a second major.
I was like, all right.
She goes, I really wantto do music production.

Monisha (01:21:23):
Oh, wow.

Willie (01:21:24):
And I'm like, now mind you, I've tried to get her into this.

Monisha (01:21:28):
Yeah.

Willie (01:21:29):
Just, and not as a career, but I, I, I, I realized when she was younger, I
was like, let me teach you this stuff now.
Mm-hmm.
So that way when you go to college, youcan get jobs and bars and clubs and,
and whatever making, making money soyou don't have to work a, a, a crap job.

Ally (01:21:45):
Right.
Do what you love.

Willie (01:21:46):
And even if she didn't love it, like it, it's better than
working in her and, you know Yeah.
Slaving away somewhere like,um, you know, it's a fun job and
she did not want any part of it.
And then so she calls me and tellsme that, and I'm like, my first
thing I said was, don't do what I do.
I was like, don't do this.

(01:22:07):
Like, I was like, you're not, because I,you know, I want her to be successful.
I want her to have, you know, Idon't want her to ever struggle.

Mike (01:22:14):
Yeah.

Willie (01:22:15):
And, um, you know, going into this business, but then I, but then I
quickly realized, well, you're going tocollege and you're gonna have that paper.
I didn't, I'm self-taught and like,I, I, I could do a lot better in
this business if I charged enough.

Mike (01:22:30):
I, I,

Willie (01:22:30):
yeah.
Um, or if I took more gigs.
Again, COVID kind of, but as a parent,like to, to have her follow my footsteps
without me pushing it, like, oh, like, andshe's doing, she's already doing better.
She's only 20 and she's just did, shejust led the production team for pyro.
Wow.
You know what I mean?

(01:22:51):
Like, that's, that's, yeah.
I don't know if youknew that I gave Pirate.
No.
No.
Okay.
So the, my daughter's turtle, theone on the girl that's at the board.
Okay.
Um, I gave it to her this year.
I'm like,

Ally (01:23:03):
oh, I thought you were doing sound again.

Willie (01:23:04):
Wow.
No, no.
That's all my stuff.

Ally (01:23:06):
Yeah.
Like

Willie (01:23:07):
my company, but I'm like, turtle, it's yours.
You're in charge.
You, you, you handle the staff, you handlethe decisions, you handle the sound.

Ally (01:23:14):
She's doing a great job.
The sound sounds great.
I'm like,

Willie (01:23:17):
so we have a really, she, you know, I have an A one sound guy with her.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and the staff is just amazing.
It's a, it's a three person staff, well,technically four, we gotta help her.
Mm-hmm.
Like kind of a volunteer helper sothat, so it's a four man staff, but
three of them are like, they, youknow, and then the one is learning.

(01:23:37):
Mm-hmm.
So, um, it's amazing, you know,like she's, and she's nailing it.
She's nailed it all weekend.
So, you know, at 20, uh, because Ifigured, I, I figured turtle, if you can
handle pyro, you can handle any festival.
Because now, now granted thiswas like really on point pyro.

(01:24:00):
There was no hurdles.
Like, I don't know if you guysare familiar with some of the
hurdles, the sound companies orus sound people go through with.
Yeah.
None of that has beenthe last several ones.
Like it is been amazing.
Oh, that's awesome.
And I kind of miss the chaos.
I'm like, Joe, if you're listening,man, you know, throw a monkey
wrench in the freaking wheels.

(01:24:20):
Keep us on our toes.
We didn't have to makeany decisions this year.
Like, you know, there's, there's yearswhere it's like too many bands on a stage.
It's like, who, when are we playing?
And I'm like, I don't know, man.
I was like, I was like, you know, whenyou're playing, when you, when it's
your turn, man, you're on pyro time now.
So, and they're like, all right.
Yeah, we were.

(01:24:40):
And oh, that's the communitythat, that's the comm.
And, and uh, what I was gonna talk aboutearlier is the community that's, um, that
first pyro I had, the schedule was a mess.
And I, I, I watched these artistswithout egos pulling together
to figure it out themselves.

(01:25:00):
Mm-hmm.
And to help.
That's awesome.
You know, where I've been in othersituations with bands where it's like,
well, it's in our contract and blah,blah, blah, and we can't do that.
No, no.
I'm not lifting that.
Yeah.
You know, and but these artists,you know, on, at least on my stage
and all that, you know, um, theypull together as a community Yeah.

(01:25:21):
As friends, not rivals.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, and make it happen.
Yeah.
And that's one thing about thepyro community that I love, is that
sometimes some of these pyros it'smore about, I mean, there's not,
it's not the, it's not the staff'sresponsibility to make it amazing.

Mike (01:25:42):
Mm-hmm.

Willie (01:25:43):
It's ours.
Yeah.
Together.
Yeah.
To like, make this amazing.
Yeah.
You know, it's not about the promoter, youknow, it's not about Joe making sure that
he gets these big fixtures and these bigfixtures and this really cool area like.
Sometimes, you know, like hearranges every, a lot of things, man.
A lot of work.
And uh, but a lot of it is just thecommunity itself wanting to be here.

(01:26:09):
Yeah, yeah.
And showing their space.
Yeah.
And showing what they, and creating,putting in all the work, the campsites.
Yeah.
Some of those campsites,the work that goes into 'em.
It's like, wow.
Like you must have been here, youguys worked at, must have worked hours
and hours and hours on this site.
Like, just to make it, just sowhen you're walking through,

(01:26:30):
you see this great campsite.

Mike (01:26:33):
Yeah.

Willie (01:26:33):
And it's those little things all piled together that just makes this
community that much more special and Yeah.
Different than other festivals.

Mike (01:26:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know,

Willie (01:26:44):
there's, there's a lot of good festivals, but I mean, so I
mean, I don't get, I don't get outto a lot of festivals because I'm,
you know, I'm busy with other things.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, but you know, this one.
Yeah.
Um, the only one I I was at inthe nineties that compared to
was maybe, maybe one of Swee.

Ally (01:27:05):
Oh.
I love, you

Willie (01:27:06):
know, like, oh

Ally (01:27:07):
my God, I didn't go to the Swee Music Festival, but I
went to the Purple Hatters Ball.

Willie (01:27:10):
Right.

Ally (01:27:11):
Yeah.
Oh my, that's my favorite festivalof all time in the woods there.
Yeah.
That's the one I've told youabout that I have to take you to.
I,

Willie (01:27:18):
I went to, um, two festivals there, and the only one, and the
one I can remember was, uh, I guessI saw Olden in The Gray, which is,
um, olden in the Way without Jerry.

Ally (01:27:29):
Oh, okay.

Willie (01:27:29):
Yeah.
His, the Bluegrass band he had.
Yeah.
And, uh, I Lec and the LEC tones.
Oh, yeah.
So that was the first and onlytime I've ever seen Victor Wooten.
Oh, wow.
Which, yeah.
Um, but that, you know, I, thatI, I don't know what are any
questions lead us somewhere.

(01:27:50):
Like what is it that you really want toknow about parenting in this community?
Is.

Ally (01:27:54):
Well, I think you've covered it.
Yeah.
Community vibe of ro It's such abeautiful space and like how can we
bring that, like we always, when wecome here, we always talk about like,
how can we make this our everyday life?
So that's why we are creatingintentional community.
Yeah.
So that we have that every day.
So I don't think we started off,

Willie (01:28:14):
you know what, I don't think you, I, I'm sorry.

Mike (01:28:17):
I don't think we started off, we didn't, um, start off with your
name, your band, and your business that

Willie (01:28:21):
you have.
Oh, my name's Willie Tharp.
I have, uh, refried audio.
Um, and my band's name is Pillarsof Rome and my vending booth is a
vegetarian, vegan, uh, quesadillarice bowl and potato bowl Place
called turtle shells isn't amazing.

Mike (01:28:38):
Yeah.
Your, the turtle shellis the That was great.
Yeah.
The red.
I appreciate it.
Sauce.
You watching it?
Oh yeah.
You, you like cook kindof the same way I do.
Where you're like the ve thedifferent vegetables that like.
They take, have different cooking timesyou put 'em on so that all the right.
Consistency.
It's so tasty.

Willie (01:28:55):
You know, you gotta do potatoes first and carrots.
Yeah.
You know, everything has its plate.
Totally.
And you know, it's, it's,it's, it's, it's a formula.
Yeah.
It is.
You know, um, well just like community.
Yeah.
It's

Ally (01:29:08):
like every little person has their part in community.

Willie (01:29:12):
Um, you know, the only thing when it comes to like, doing this
steadily and everything, I don't knowif we're meant to sort of like, I've
been, I'm, I'm, I'll be 53 this year andI've been a vegetarian since I was 17.
When I first became a vegetarian, youcould, there was no alternative products.

(01:29:34):
There was no there, you know, you couldbarely find tofu in a grocery store.

Mike (01:29:41):
Yeah.
Like,

Willie (01:29:41):
you know, almost like it was hard.
Yeah.
Um, now look,

Mike (01:29:47):
yeah.
There's so many options.
You know,

Willie (01:29:49):
and that's by leading, living by example.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I, I, I, I know, I know thatI've, I, I, I've been told that I've
affected people's lives before mm-hmm.
Just by being me, you know?
And, and, and I, and I, I've thoughthard on that, and I really do think
that just by being you mm-hmm.

(01:30:11):
In society and not letting them mm-hmm.
Pound you down and just staying thatpositive person is how it happens.
Yeah.

Mike (01:30:20):
Yeah.

Willie (01:30:21):
You know?
Um, because I don't know, like I lookat, I, I've look, I think, I'm think
just thinking about now, like youlook at communities that have gotten
together and, you know, sometimessome bad stuff happens to 'em.
Sometimes think, and, and, you know,whenever we come together as a group.

(01:30:41):
Like that, you know,people like don't like it.

Mike (01:30:45):
We gotta make sure your values are alignment, you know,
like have a clear set of guidelines.
So everybody's kind of operatingunder the same set of expectations.
Well, I mean, like outtathree communities don't,

Willie (01:30:53):
I mean, like health departments and police and that
kind of aspect come down on it.
Yeah.
You know, like, arethey, they give problems

Mike (01:31:02):
that community over there, they actually cope, stay away
from, they're not cult because they

Willie (01:31:06):
don't.
Right.
That's what I'm saying.
Right.
That's what I'm saying.
So like, you know, so, so that's, that'swhy I got on that thought process of,
it's by leading by example mm-hmm.
As opposed to coming together.
Um, and in, in a community, you know,it's affecting the neighbors next to you.
Like Yeah.
You know, know your, I I, I know it soundscliche, but know your neighbors man.

(01:31:30):
Yeah.
Know their names.

Ally (01:31:31):
Right.

Willie (01:31:31):
Know who lives five doors down from you.

Ally (01:31:34):
Yeah.

Willie (01:31:34):
People don't, people don't know some, some people don't know the person
on the other side of their neighbor.

Mike (01:31:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Willie (01:31:40):
That's nuts.

Mike (01:31:42):
Yeah,

Willie (01:31:42):
that's nuts.
Like, and I'm guilty of that a lot.
Yeah.
Like, um, for a lot of years I wasn'tguilty of that, but, and I'm not,
I'm in a new place right now andI'm getting to know the neighbors.
Mm-hmm.
Slowly, you know, some of 'emI already know because I live
further down the street one time.
Yeah.
And, uh, and I know a lot of peoplein my community, um, and that's

(01:32:03):
important, you know, it really is like,know the people in your community.
Mm-hmm.
Like, I think that's, that's a reallyimportant thing, you know, like

Ally (01:32:13):
there's all different ways to do it.
Yeah.
There is.
And like, there are communities that like,I think an important part is blending
with the rest of the outer community.
Yeah.
Like, not just becoming like, you know,all like, that's the only place you are,
but there are lots of communities thathave lasted 20, 30 years and they're
like very successful because they havelike a very set, you know, a group of.

(01:32:39):
People that like, have similar valuesand they're working towards the same
goals and there's guidelines, you know?
Yeah.
There's, there's alldifferent ways to do it.

Willie (01:32:49):
I, yeah,

Mike (01:32:49):
there are.
Well, thank you so much for your time.
Yeah.
We gotta, we're gonna try hit a coupleof the people before we head out here.
Yeah.
That

Willie (01:32:57):
the guy I just mentioned, like the art, the artist with the artist company.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
And happy, happy pyro.

Ally (01:33:04):
Happy pyro.

Mike (01:33:06):
So, um, so now we're sitting here with Chris Peters, uh,
illumination Station, the regionalmanager for the Eastern chapter.

ChrisP (01:33:14):
Uh, yes.
And General manager.
Uh, so, so yeah.
Uh, there's a lot of stuffthat we could talk about.
Um, I think the first thing to sayis that, um, so Illumina education,
grassroots education is a nonprofitthat helps people teach each other.
Um, and we came about throughthese types of events.
Um, geez, I don't know,probably about 15 years ago.

(01:33:35):
I would have to check to see exactly.
It might be 14 now.
Um.
Over in Minnesota at a similar typeof gathering, um, called, uh, well,
Harvey Park was the name of the event.
There were a bunch ofdifferent gatherings.
Um, oh, harmony Park.
Yeah.
Yep.
Originally we were, I think wefirst started doing this at the
first, the second Shangri Law.
Oh, wow.
Pretty sure.

(01:33:56):
Um, so, so basically we, um, gottogether with some other people who were
like-minded and they had already beentrying to do some educational stuff and
they had structure, they had ways to getinto events, um, but they didn't have
the skillset to include people basically.
Um, the community itself, whichobviously you can't do it without that.
So, you know, they had tried toput an event together or go to an
event and they had had workshops,but no one to come because they

(01:34:18):
weren't including the community.
So, um, we got in contact with them, uh,originally online through Wooki Foot.
Um, they were reaching out, lookingfor people who had ideas for ways to
make their events more family friendlyor just better, you know, more, um.
Uh, constructive, uh, and we mentionedworkshops and some other people did.

(01:34:39):
And then a couple weeks went by and got acontact from a gentleman who asked if we
were serious about it, and we said, yeah.
Turns out he had a dome, one ofthe ones we still have, um, and
had access to get into Harmony.
He was friends with wwith, with Mark and jojo.
Um, so he hooked up with us and,uh, we started doing these events.
Since then, we've expanded to do 'emacross a good chunk of the country.

(01:35:03):
Um, and pyro is one of the events we'vebeen doing for quite a few years now.
Uh, we'd like these tour of eventsbecause they're more community oriented.
Um, some people use the wordtransformational, but it really
just means that they're focusing onlike, people being together, doing
something constructive, learning askill, working through a problem.
Um, community.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Being a community togetherinstead of just going to an
event so they can be on vacation.

(01:35:25):
Um, yeah, not that it's not vacation,but, um, and so yeah, we, um, started out.
With just a handful of people.
And because we were really focusingon the grassroots part, we just made
sure, we were always telling everybody,we saw, Hey, you can participate too.
Hey, you can do this.
You know, you could, you could teachor you could just come and help.

(01:35:46):
And, uh, so as we grew, we, wedeveloped a pretty big community.
We've got hundreds of peoplethat have worked with us over the
years, and they'll still contactus, you know, outta the blue.
Even now when we're not doingtoo many events after COVID,
uh, we'll still get people callsup, talk to us, we go visit 'em.
Um, really did buildquite a bit of community.
Um, so we were starting, wewere mostly working outta

(01:36:07):
Minnesota, living in South Dakota.
Um, and then we moved across thecountry to Pennsylvania, which
is where we originally from.
And we left a chapter out in, uh,Minnesota and brought one here.
So we've been doing a goodchunk of probably about, about
a quarter of the country or so.
Right now we're covering.
And we'd like to eventually open more,but because it's grassroots, it just

(01:36:27):
depends on how much time everybodyhas, you know, uh, these things can
be pretty complicated, which you grow.
You need a lot of support staff, off stagepeople to like do mundane tasks and stuff.
And when you're a true nonprofit,um, and you're not big enough
to have a lot of money comingthrough, to pay a person to do those
things, that can be very difficult.
Um, but that's part ofthe community building.
You know, you, you've gotta bring thesepeople in and you've gotta, uh, figure

(01:36:50):
out what their wants and desires arein terms of community and education,
and then help them achieve them.
And that's really what we're here to do.
I, I feel like people don'tunderstand how much work it takes
to do these sorts of things.
I mean, I'll spend weeks gettingready for this, uh, you know, not
getting sleep, not doing other things.
Still be late to miss.
Like, I, I haven't seena band yet this weekend.
Um, but I'm really, but like theeducational aspect, the ability to

(01:37:13):
share with the people in the community.
Something that is meaningfulto them is just, I mean, it's
just a really powerful thing.
It, it makes me very happy.
Um, and I think that's why alot of people work with us.
Just seeing a person.
Uh, I remember there's a gentleman,he's a manager with us now, actually.
Um, and when he first started workingwith us, the joy that he had learning

(01:37:34):
things, he didn't know he could come tosomething like this and like learn stuff.
And he was just, he came backevery single event and spent
almost the whole weekend with us.
And just the, the joy of someone who'sgo, who leaves going, I ha look at
this new skill I have or this thing Imade, or this, this knowledge that I,
that I can take back in my real worldthat's gonna make a difference is I
think the real essence of community.
And I think that's whatkeeps us doing this.
Yeah.
Um, you know, like we're, we'renot, we don't get anything out

(01:37:56):
of it other than that experience,uh, going to the events I guess.
But like I said, I don't know when thelast time I went went to an event was.
Yeah, I think I saw, I sawWonki foot last pyro regardless.
Um, yeah, so that's, that'spretty much the gist of it.
It's really just about trying tofigure out how you get all the levers
working so you can coordinate all thesepeople helping each other, you know?

(01:38:17):
'cause you might have an event inMinnesota where you might have 10
teachers and eight staff and a couplehundred people that come through, but
you may also have one in Maryland.
And that's, I mean, obviously awhole different group of people.
I mean, it's a whole different, you'vegotta build a network of community and
volunteers in each of these individualplaces and they can move between them

(01:38:37):
with you, but you've gotta build thatcommunity where you're at physically.
You've gotta be there.
Uh, sometimes that's by phone.
We, you know, we do have communityoff stage, but like the really, like,
beginning of the people togetherto teach each other can only happen
when you're physically together.
And so, you know, every time you go toa new area or whatever, you've gotta
kind of build that community up again.
Um, because you don't have peoplethere who are aware of what it is that,

(01:39:01):
not just your organization, but like.
You know, that type of communitybuilding, uh, necessarily, and maybe
you do, but you've gotta go find them.
So it's really just dependingon the type of events you go to.
One of the nice things about musicfestivals, they're so varied.
Some of them are far more like this onefocused on community, and it's not hard
to find those people and do those things.
Other ones, it can be very difficultand you can spend years trying to

(01:39:21):
build a community in an event or in anarea that is deep enough to allow you
to continue to do this sorts of stuffwithout struggling because they might
not be focused on this type of activity.
Uh, so I think it's really importantto, you know, not everybody wants to
build community at a event that's notphysically in the community they live in.
And a lot of what we're doing isfinding those people and trying

(01:39:42):
to figure out how to build thosethings, how to convince people that
is valuable to 'em to participate.
Um, and I think that's a big part of whatgrassroots education does, is it gives you
a really open-ended way to get into that.
Because pe if you wanna teach, you canteach anything, any format, any topic.
Um, and at any skill level.
So if you wanna do like introductiongroup talk to, I like cats.
Everybody comes to talk abouthow much they like cats.

(01:40:03):
You can do that.
Or you could be anenvironmental scientist.
You can come in and teachenvironmental science and you
know, as a doctor or whatever.
And we've done that too.
So it just, just depends.
And I think that lets people come inthat wouldn't come in otherwise and then
start to see the value of community.
So, uh, yeah, that's pretty much that.
Yeah.

Mike (01:40:17):
Yeah.
I think I met you, itwas 2018 at about right.
Sweetgrass and Sage Burn.
I was already working withthe, I was with a crew that was
like putting on the festival.
Mm-hmm.
And I've done workshops withinthe year before, but they hired
Illumination Station that, that year.
And I, when I got to talk toyou, I was excited to like,
meet you and like work with you.
And I've been, um, I've doneevents with Illumination

(01:40:39):
Station every year since then.
Except for 2020.

ChrisP (01:40:42):
Yeah.
Don't think so.
Yep.
We didn't know anything that year.
Yeah.
And that's, this is the sort ofthing, you know, 'cause we, we get
all kinds of different people in.
So in this case, like, uh, someone who'sworking as a volunteer manager, uh.
Talk to him and you know,like help get him involved.
A lot of times in the case, someonelike Mike here, like they're basically

(01:41:02):
involved before I ever meet him.
'cause we're building a communityand I don't need to be there.
You know, uh, we had people,I'd be a perfect example.
Um, the person, woman who was ourvolunteer coordinator who got Mike
involved, she got involved because anothergirl went to an event in Wisconsin and
told her about it and they got excited.
So it's like I, these, it'slike a chain of events.

(01:41:23):
The more people in the community, thebetter you can build the community.
Yeah.
So that's a big part of it.
It's just, you know, the engagement andthen making sure you meet their needs.
We meet their needs partially throughto letting them teach whatever they
need, but also partially through,um, trying to promote the things
that they're doing separately sothat they're getting something
we're building their community to.
They're just not buildinga community around us.
Yeah.
And I think that's areally big part of it.
It's the community is not about.

(01:41:44):
Built around one organizationor person or event.
Yeah.
It's the people there as you've gottafind out how to integrate them so
that they're still getting a sand orgetting the things they need outta
the experience in a productive way.

Mike (01:41:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thanks for sharing.
Yeah, it's good to be here again.
Let you get Ro.
Very excited.
Yeah.

ChrisP (01:42:03):
Hopefully we'll many more.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Ally (01:42:09):
Thanks for joining us in the forest.
If you felt a Spark, share thisepisode and leave a review.
It helps grow the Mycelial network.

Mike (01:42:16):
Follow our journey on Facebook and TikTok at Soul Fire Forest.
And until next time,stay rooted and radiant.

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