March 11, 2025 • 44 mins
Alex talks about being head of year, what it takes, what it means and how you do it.
My favourite quote of this episode is "And that's one of the interesting things about teaching. You seldom, if ever, know you've made the impact. But every now and then you get these little moments and they're gold. They're absolute gold. I've had a number of interactions with students who have graduated, and I had in my classes, you know, sort of 10 years down the track. Last year I actually had a wonderful experience where I bumped into a previous student of mine, and he went out of his way to thank me for how I taught him and how I really resonated with him. And so he gave me some great feedback on the sort of teacher that I was. And, um, yeah, that was, that was amazing. And it's, it's lovely to know that you have had a positive impact on, on the lives of people."
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to Forrest.
Chat, where we talk about individualendeavour in Western Australia.
What it takes, what itmeans, and how you do it.
I'm your host, Paul van der Mey,and today I'm talking with Alex
Smith about being Head of Year.
Alex started teaching about 14 years ago.
He's taught in a couple of schoolsin Perth, and now teaches in Bunbury.
(00:29):
Welcome to Forrest.
Chat, Alex.
Thank you, Paul.
Uh, really grateful to be here.
Uh, grateful for the opportunity.
And, uh, yeah, I'm lookingforward to, to this conversation.
So thank you very much for having me on.
A pleasure.
I'm looking forward to it as well.
And I'm sure our, mylisteners are as well.
Head of year.
What is that?
(00:51):
So Paul, head of year is a positionwithin middle management of teaching.
So you're not quite as high up as theprincipal or your vice principals or
your And you're deputy principals,um, you're in middle management.
So, as you would know in high school,there's years, year 7 through to year 12.
(01:11):
And usually there's one person,that's the head of year, who's in
charge of looking after a year group.
So, uh, I'm in charge of looking after ayear group of approximately 180 students.
Uh, so they're sort of entering the secondhalf of their schooling at the moment.
(01:32):
Never a dull moment as a head of year.
And, um, you really, you're at the heartof what you're doing is you're trying
to get them from point A to point B.So learning, learning how to move from
being a child, ultimately, hopefully.
Finishing their high schoolexperience with a clear vision of
(01:53):
what their future looks like andresembling a bit more of an adult.
I know sometimes that's not always thecase, but that's what we try and do.
So.
How does that actually look like?
Uh, well, ultimately we're lookingat raising or helping parents
raise good kids and in that shell.
(02:14):
So there's a lot of different elementsthat come into raising good kids.
Typically I'd often think about school asbeing an academically based institution.
Is there any more to the role thanjust the academic side of things?
Absolutely.
Academics is important and as far as I'mconcerned, academics help open doors.
(02:39):
It provides students with opportunities.
Having said that though, as ahead of year, that's only one
pillar of what I'm trying to do.
I'm trying to raise, helpraise, uh, with the parents.
So I like to call it a partnership.
It's ultimately a partnershipwith you, the head of year, the
(03:00):
parents, and also the students.
So we're trying to help them becomethe best version of themselves.
So we're looking at also helping themwith their beliefs and values, their
attitudes, and also critical thinking.
How do we engage withcontent in the real world?
(03:21):
How do we engage with oneanother in the real world?
What does respectful relationships looklike, uh, both between different genders
and what does it look like to also entera workplace and be a good contributor?
So these are all facets of learningthat kind of go beyond your typical
(03:44):
academics where you think scienceor your maths and it's about almost
learning some of these problems.
It's um, it's what I like tocall the hidden curriculum.
And why would that curriculum be hidden?
You would think that parentssend their children to school
for the academic side of things.
(04:07):
How do these other thingsactually come into being?
Yeah, that's a great question, Paul.
Um, I think because they don'ttypically get reported on.
We often associate school with grades.
Um, and if we really sort of distillit down, make it really simple.
Often, I know my experience of schoolingand how my parents approached schooling
(04:30):
was, how are your grades going?
Uh, there wasn't too many conversationsabout, are you doing okay?
How are you traveling?
Um, do you know what it lookslike to be a good person?
Do you know what it lookslike to be a good man?
And, um, I think it's importantthat we make them visible.
So they're not necessarilyexplicitly taught day in, day out.
(04:54):
In a classroom setting.
However, I'm very proud to say that atthe school that I work at, we do try
and make it as visible as possible.
We try and instill very clear values thatour students both learn and abide by.
Um, that's how we like tohelp them with their learning.
Um, and also things likelooking at their own character.
(05:17):
So looking within.
Practicing self reflection and whatstrengths and weaknesses they may
have, and also how can they overcomethose strengths or weaknesses.
That's pretty deep forkids going through school.
Like, as you said, they're,you know, they've been kids.
(05:37):
They're not adults yet.
That's some pretty heavy hitting stuff.
Absolutely.
And the way that I like to thinkabout it is trigonometry can
be really tricky for students.
And learning about Newton's laws ofphysics can be also very challenging.
So we like to throwacademic challenges at kids.
Why not throwing challenges at themas far as their personal growth, too?
(06:02):
Do you have a mandate fordoing that in some way?
So I work in a Catholic school.
So within the context of a Catholicschool, we definitely look at developing
not only the person but the heartand we believe in the spirit as well.
So that comes through experienceswhere they may experience,
(06:25):
um, forms of wonder and awe.
Uh, and ideally they might alsointeract with, with a divine
entity depending on their beliefs.
And ultimately we're hoping that if, ifthey choose to, to believe in God, then,
um, you know, that's, that's a good thing.
So, um, we like to be quite inclusivein how we approach it, but we,
we, that's how we typically do it.
(06:47):
And having that Catholic school set up,the parents anticipate that that would be
a part of what their kids are learning.
So that's where yourmandate comes from, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we do have mandates as wellthrough our governing system
where we, we do teach, um,pastoral care is what we call it.
Um, in a public school system, thereisn't an explicit pastoral care.
(07:11):
They do provide exceptionalpastoral care in, in public schools.
Um, but we also have it as,as a very clear mandate as how
we're actually governed as well.
That, um, we are developing theother elements of, of the students
who come to our community.
Public schools provide,provide pastoral care.
Um, I suppose we explicitlyhave it mandated.
(07:32):
I can't speak for, um, public schooling,um, and whether they have it mandated.
I've not worked in a, ina, uh, a public school.
Um, for me, um, Without jumping too farforward, my teaching journey was largely
spiritually and faith based as well.
Alex, what does it takeyou to be head of year?
(07:55):
Well, if I look back at myjourney, as I alluded to, I had
the great privilege of going to aCatholic school in Perth myself.
And my experience therewas an exceptional one.
I, I learned so much from, fromthe teachers that I had the great
privilege of, of being a student under.
(08:17):
And when I left the school,I was a little lost.
I'm sure that many students couldrelate to feeling a little lost.
They didn't necessarily have direction.
I had options.
I had lots of options.
I did okay at school and endedup with a fairly reasonable
opportunities at university.
(08:38):
But I liked, I liked that direction.
Um, and it was only when I startedreflecting on, on the teachers and
the influence that they had, um,many years down the track, actually,
um, talking about 10, maybe 12 yearsdown the track was that I realized
just how impactful it was to teach.
(08:59):
Um, so in 2010, I decided to, to become.
A teacher, some of it by selfreflection, also some of it by necessity.
There was a job redundancy thattook place at the same time, which
was a blessing really in hindsight,but it forced my hand a little bit.
(09:22):
So I did my grad dip and Iwent headfirst into teaching.
I went back to the school that I wasactually a student at, and I taught there
for seven years of my teaching career.
And, um, I was very, very privilegedto, to have that opportunity to
(09:42):
be able to give back a little bit.
So to me, becoming a teacher,firstly, was more of a vocation.
I felt compelled to do it.
I felt compelled to give back.
There was a driving needto, to serve others.
And that, um, that still drives me today.
(10:04):
It's just how I servehas shifted slightly.
I spend a little less time in theclassroom, and I spend a little bit
more time with parents, dealing withconversations that might be higher
end, helping parents and studentswhen there's problems that arise.
Things that are beyond our control moreoften than not, uh, life issues, mental
(10:27):
health issues, uh, breakdowns of families.
Um, you know, we also get some otherhigh end, higher risk kind of, um,
situations that, that I'm presented with.
And, um, that requires a degreeof emotional regulation as well.
So I've had to continually upskill.
(10:50):
Um, so I've been a, been aheadof you for four years now.
And I think one of the things that Ican reflect upon is how to be ahead
of year is you have to be the bestversion of yourself and get really good
at dialing in how can you be the bestversion of yourself as often as possible.
(11:12):
Not perfect, but just thebest version of yourself.
That's always something goodto strive for, I think, to be
the best version of yourself.
Self reflection and what youcan actually gain from that.
Yeah.
Well, it's like, I feel likeit's almost like a muscle, right?
The more that you useit, the stronger it gets.
And then in my experience as a headof year, we've, we ask our students
(11:36):
to reflect on their characterand their character development.
And I think it would bewildly hypocritical of me
if I don't do that myself.
So I very much walk thewalk and I talk the talk.
Um, so I, I constantly do the,the character strength surveys the
same time that the students, ifI ask them to do it, I do it too.
(11:56):
And I reflect on it as well.
You know, one of the interesting thingsthat came up for me was, um, self
regulation seemed to be towards thebottom of a bit of a weakness for me.
And, um, I'm instantlyable to reflect on that.
It's something so simple.
It's, uh, chocolate and me,for example, forget about it.
(12:16):
You mean it's so good youcan't forget about it.
That's right.
So we have, I had to practice that myselfand it's, it's that in itself takes time
and there's relapses and you get back onthe bandwagon and you just keep trying.
But I think it's the, the process isso important as well as the striving.
(12:37):
And, um, it ultimately keeps comingback to, to what I mentioned earlier,
Paul, that it's, it's about, by servingothers, I think you serve yourself too.
You find that you're far morefulfilled, um, when you feel like
you, you're actually having animpact in the lives of others.
Absolutely.
And I've talked on the podcast about, youknow, how I want this podcast to do good.
(13:01):
And that's in a similar vein, I think.
Oh, absolutely.
And, and I know that you'vedefinitely having an impact.
So it's, it's great stuff.
Thank you.
Is there anything else you can thinkof about that's the element of what
it takes you to do what you do?
Yeah, look, I think, um, it's importantto explain that it's a, it's a big
(13:23):
step up from teaching in a classroom.
Um, as a high school teacher, you mightteach somewhere around the region of 24
lessons and maybe five different classes,four or five different classes, depending
on your subject area, possibly even more.
But, uh, you might know 150students reasonably well within that
(13:48):
role, that context of a teacher.
As a head of year, the expectationwould be that you know 180 students,
not reasonably well, but fairly well,uh, to the point where ideally you,
you're able to, to catch problemsbefore they arise in an ideal world.
None of this is not always the case.
(14:08):
Um,
it's, it's important that you,you develop relationships.
I think that's what it boils down to.
You, you really need to bea relational sort of person.
You need to enjoy, uh,working through problems.
Conflict resolution is,is a big part of the role.
(14:29):
Being comfortable intricky situations too.
I think that that's important.
Um, as, as I'm sure we all know,when it comes to your children,
when things go wrong, that's it'shigh stakes conversations and having
the ability to understand that it'shigh stakes, acknowledge that it's
high stakes, but not allow it toover, overcome you and consume you.
(14:52):
is quite important.
So I like to describe it asalmost keeping an even keel.
So to use a boating analogy, sometimesyou're in a storm and it's a big one,
but you've got to keep that even keel.
You've got to stay level headed andultimately just come back to what's in
(15:12):
the best interests of everyone here.
And if you do that and you dothat often enough, I've found
that more often than not.
You'll do, you'll do well byothers and it'll work out.
So there's a little bit of, okay, you, youneed to concentrate and focus, I guess, on
(15:33):
being, uh, that calm person in the room.
Yep.
Which means not triggeringall your emotions and, and,
and that sort of things.
And I, I could imagine thatthere would be situations that
might actually be, uh, triggers.
From your life experience, youknow, seeing this is like, maybe a
(15:54):
trigger for something in your life,but you've actually got to overcome
that trigger and be the calm one.
Absolutely.
Because there's
probably no one else being calm.
More often than not, no.
Yeah, and, and, I think, uh, practicing,uh, Practicing my spirituality, practicing
(16:17):
my faith, practicing my routine soI can be the best version of myself.
It really helps me maintain thatcalm in those tricky situations.
And absolutely, you said triggers.
Oh yeah.
There have been multiple situationswhere I come home after a day and
I wonder why I've been so riled up.
(16:39):
I might not have looked so riled up.
But inside internally,I definitely felt it.
It's usually for me straight upstraight out to do some gardening, some
woodworking, or maybe going and liftingsome weights or going for a run or even
just practicing some some breathingjust so I can just work through that.
(16:59):
You've got to know what works for youin a particular situation so that you
can actually Release it and let it go.
Yeah, yeah.
And for me, it's important that Idon't come home and that actually
comes out of me and affects my family.
That's super important.
Um, I, I liken driving into mygarage as almost like this, this
(17:26):
moment going into another dimension.
I'm going into my family home andI can't bring that home with me.
And I've got to do what I need todo, so I'm not bringing that home.
Easy to say, not always easy to do, but,um, I think it'd be unfair for me to allow
the frustrations that I might be feeling,or I might've had a great day as well.
(17:46):
That often helps, um, but, um, it'sunfair, especially on the bad days to,
to let it impact on, on how I presentas a, as a husband and a father.
So, yeah.
Yeah, that's it.
Uh, it's very important to be thatgood role model in the, in the family.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and, uh, I think that's a, a bigpart of my responsibility too, as a head
(18:09):
EVO, you want to be a, you want to be agood role model for, for your students
and, and just for the broader community.
And I think it's, it's abouthelping the community as well.
Um, lift, lifting the community up.
So we've had a look at whatit takes to be Head of Year.
(18:29):
We'll have a break now, and after thebreak, we'll have a look at what it means.
We've had a look at what it takes.
Now, let's have a look at what it means.
Alex, what does it mean to you,your family, or the community
(18:51):
that you can be Head of Year?
I love this question, Paul.
Thank you.
So I'll try and break themup as best as possible.
Uh, so to be a head of year for me is,is part of me fulfilling a purpose.
I believe we're all here for a purpose.
And if I'm serving others and I'mhelping the community and I am
(19:16):
in the process of helping otherscontinually growing, um, then it
means, it means an awful lot to me.
I. I still see myself as a student.
Um, I'm turning 42 this year andI'm, I still see myself as a student.
So as a head of year, what a wonderfulway to continue to learn and grow.
(19:39):
I'm in a position where my, myschool's really great at helping,
helping other teachers and themiddle managers continue to grow.
So we get lots of professionallearning opportunities.
I'm doing further study myself.
Uh, cause I want to continue to, to grow.
So I'm, I'm, I'm very much embracinga love of learning and the position
(20:03):
allows me to, to certainly do that, uh,as well as, as my school, furthermore,
uh, what it means to me is, is thatI'm hopefully making a difference
in the lives of other people and notthat I'm looking for that validation.
And that's one of the interestingthings about teaching.
(20:24):
You seldom, if ever, knowyou've made the impact.
But every now and then you get theselittle moments and they're gold.
They're absolute gold.
I've had a number of interactionswith students who have graduated,
and I had in my classes, you know,sort of 10 years down the track.
(20:45):
Last year I actually had a wonderfulexperience where I bumped into a previous
student of mine, and he went out of hisway to thank me for how I taught him
and how I really resonated with him.
And so he gave me some great feedbackon the sort of teacher that I was.
And, um, yeah, that was, that was amazing.
(21:07):
And it's, it's lovely to knowthat you have had a positive
impact on, on the lives of people.
Uh, so it certainly is importantto me as far as what it means
to me, um, as a head of year.
It's challenging.
I like to stay, um, I liketo stay quite challenged.
There's never a dullmoment as a head of year.
(21:28):
So it's the sort of job where youdon't always know what's coming.
If you, if you like being organizedand you like knowing what you're doing
every minute, it's another job for you.
So, um, yeah, knowing, knowing what I'mwalking into each day varies wildly.
Um, And, and also the people.
(21:49):
I think it's really important for me toacknowledge that I work with a really
great group of people, in my pastoralcare team, as well as, the principal,
the senior managers and the staff.
We've got amazing people whoare all very like minded, which
really just helps every day.
(22:10):
It makes the hard parts of life, orthe difficult parts of life, that
much easier knowing you've got thatgroup of people who've got your back.
So, so that's what it means to me.
So for my family, Paul, um,
I think being ahead of year hascertainly helped me as a parent.
I've got, um, I've got threeyoung boys at home and it's,
(22:33):
it's good being ahead of year and,and just observing parenting styles
and ways of parenting and, um, Justpicking things up along the way.
Uh, so for my family, I think, um,they would certainly appreciate that.
In my role, while it's busy,it certainly allows me to, to
(22:55):
be a better father, I think.
And it also gives me alittle bit of time too.
One of the great privileges of, ofbeing, uh, in the education industry is
that you do have the school holidays.
There's, there's often the,uh, That assumption that we're
just kicking back and relaxing.
Not always the case, um, but we do have alittle bit more time and freedom where I
(23:19):
can spend real quality time with my kids.
And that's certainly whyI stay in the industry.
And so I can, I can be present and reallybe an active and hopefully loving father.
It's so good to be able to share that,well, it's not really extra time, but
(23:42):
more time than certainly someone who'sgot a regular, you know, 9 5 job and
you know, they get the weekends andthey get 4 weeks of leave and every 10
years or 15 years or whatever, they geta few, they get a couple of months off.
That's right,
yeah.
It's a far more regularopportunity to spend that time.
(24:03):
Absolutely.
And, um.
I try and make that asintentional as possible.
Try and be present.
Easy to say, not always easy to do.
So, um, try and be aspresent as possibly can be.
The kids are only young once, youknow, and, um, all of the research
and data suggests that thoseformative years connection with the
(24:24):
parents are integral to what lifemay look like for kids as teenagers.
So if you've got a really close bondwith your kids, Uh, before the age of
eight, I believe it is, uh, when thosetricky sort of issues arise, uh, that
(24:44):
invariably do for teenagers, uh, you throwin technology in there as well and social
media and the world in which they'refaced with and they have to grow up in
is vastly different to, to what we had.
And if you've got that trust, thatbond with your children, They'll come
(25:06):
to you, they'll talk to you about theproblems and it's often when they don't
talk to you, that's when problems,really, really big problems can arise.
So yeah, so I think it, it helps me bea better father and it helps me be more
connected with my children and obviouslyspending more time with my wife as well.
(25:27):
Um, who's also an educator, so weget to have the holidays together
too, so that's, that's awesome.
She's been rather busy.
I think she'd want to get backto work soon, wouldn't you?
Yeah, yeah.
She's been, she's been busy with,um, with our boys and she's,
she's done a tremendous job.
Uh, she is picking up a littlebit of work, so that's going to
be interesting to manage as well.
(25:48):
Just time management and how we'regoing to navigate through that.
But, um, yeah, I'm, I'm confidentthat we can, we can do that.
So yeah, it'll be, it'll be good.
Um, so, and Paul just supposedto go to the last point.
Um, what does it meanto, to the community?
I would like to think that the, thecommunity is appreciative of, of the
(26:11):
role of, of heads of year and middlemanagers in, in education, sometimes
It'd be good to get a little bit morefeedback, you know, um, I'm very feedback
driven kind of guy, both good and bad.
And, you know, we have a negativitybias, I think, in our society, so more
than happy to provide negative feedback.
(26:32):
When, when things are going well,we often don't hear about it.
So, um, you know, I, I'm gratefulthat within my school context, uh, the
parents are pretty active and, uh, I,I get, um, some lovely comments and
emails and, um, across, across theyear when, when things are going well.
Uh, from a broader community perspective,I think that, um, there, there is
(26:59):
very much a need to continue to.
help our young people grow and learn, andI think the community acknowledges that.
And um, we need to provide ouryoung people with the right tools,
the right spaces, and the rightopportunities to, to do that.
So, um, if I can keep passing onthat message and we all respond as
(27:24):
a community, I think then, um, yeah,it'll, it'll be a, a wonderful result.
It sounds to me like the role that youhave effectively moving quite a large
number of soon to be adults througha system where you're trying to get
(27:45):
them to be the best people they can beand the best adults that they can be.
Yeah.
Well, they become society.
That's the goal, Paul, andthat's the ideal, right?
I think if we, um If we can helppeople, as I mentioned earlier,
be the best version of themselves,then I, I think we can only, um, we
(28:06):
can only improve as, as a society.
It's a bit, a bit like if you putgood things into the soil, you can
get good things out, but if you putbad things into the soil, you're not
going to get much good out of it.
So what you're doing is trying to putgood things into the soil in that way.
(28:28):
Absolutely.
It's all about planting seeds.
We don't know when they'll germinate,but hopefully they, they do.
And, and they'll have what theyneed to actually grow and thrive.
That's right.
Yeah.
That's, that's very much, um, an analogythat I, that I use quite regularly, um,
about, yeah, the planting seeds and it'sjust about, again, those opportunities.
(28:51):
So if we can provide kids with, withopportunities, even when they make, or
especially when they make poor choices,
To not judge, to not shame, to, um, go,okay, well that wasn't the best decision.
Was it when you see the results?
Yeah.
Yeah.
You might agree.
(29:13):
, uh, yeah.
Yelling at that teacher ordoing this or doing that.
Probably not the greatest idea.
How could you have done that better?
Um, and when they realize that you're notgoing to, um, you're not going to judge
them, that you, you're there to help them.
Learn from that choice.
The poor choice.
Um, they usually respond more oftenthan not fairly well, I've found.
(29:38):
It's um, you know, we're a highlyjudgmental and I suppose in many
ways justice driven society.
We get caught up in, in needingthings to be right and fair without
having all the answers sometimesor having all of the context.
Um, I think it's very easy sometimesto, to look at a student who continues
(30:01):
to make some poor choices and, andjudge them as disengaged or just not
being a particularly good young personor they, they don't have good values.
But do we really know what's going on?
Um, I like to use a, an icebreak, an iceberg sort of analogy.
More often than not, the behaviorthat we're presented with is about 10
(30:24):
percent of what's going on because youonly see 10 percent of the iceberg.
What's the 90%?
And I suppose going back to what I do as ahead of year and how I do it, that's part
of my job too, to, to look underneath,to, to actually have a good look at
that iceberg and go, okay, there's,there's a few things going on here.
(30:44):
So that's why.
We're getting the behavior that we'regetting or the actions that we're getting.
So, um, yeah, that's, um, that'scertainly a big part of it.
A
very interesting place to be.
And for some kids that'll be apivotal interaction in their life.
Yeah.
Uh, I hope so.
(31:06):
And, and like I said, you, you usuallynever know, you'll get a handshake, you
know, and, um, But that's all you needto know, and not in the, certainly not
in the business of measuring someone'sdevelopment and measuring whether
they're becoming a better person or not.
We never know when they'll germinate,as that's said, but hopefully we
(31:31):
provide them with the experiences, thetools, and the grace sometimes as well.
That's really what's needed, so theycan germinate when they're ready.
I suppose the only other thing I mightsay is as, as far as what it means to
be, to be a head of year is that for me,you're, you're a leader, essentially,
(31:57):
whether you want to be or not, as a headof year, you're, you're a leader, and
you have to embrace that part of thejob, and it, to be a good leader, you
have to shine the light on yourself,you've got to look in the mirror, and
you have to do that, that work as well.
(32:17):
Um, I think it's, um, SimonSinek says, know your why,
you know, start with the why.
And why am I ahead ofyear to make a difference?
If I go a little bit deeper, I'm alsoahead of year because it helps me be
the best possible person that I can be.
(32:39):
It forces me to continue to learn andgrow and develop and not stagnate.
Which is certainly, before I becamea teacher, I feel I was on that
sort of pathway of stagnation.
So that, uh, redundancy thatyou faced earlier in life was
that blessing in disguise?
(33:00):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it definitely was.
And, um, I recall this reallypivotal moment, um, sitting,
sitting at the dinner table with,um, with my mum and my stepdad.
And They just said to me,what do you really want to do?
You know, you've, you'vebeen made redundant.
(33:21):
You've got a bit of money.
I've got a nice payout.
I was, I was in a fairly highpaying profession and role before
I decided to move into teaching.
And, um, at least from the external,I would have looked quite successful.
I wasn't happy, I was pretty horrid asfar as what my life looked like, but
(33:46):
um, I had done some coaching prior andI really enjoyed working with those
kids when I was coaching at university.
So, It was like this moment ofclarity at that dinner table,
like what I really want to do.
They were sort of probing me and reallynot, not letting me just shirk the answer.
(34:07):
They wanted to me to dial in onwhat do you really want to do?
And I just said, I think I want to teach.
And it was that night I got homeand I applied to, to do the teaching
degree and I think within 10 daysit was, I was accepted and I started
(34:28):
about a month and a half later.
Wow, so it was very quick.
It was, yeah, yeah, and um, just wentfor it and I haven't looked back since.
Fantastic, well that sounds like agreat point in our conversation to head
to a break and then we'll talk about.
(34:49):
Just how you actually achieve that.
We've had a look at what it means, nowlet's have a look at how you do it.
Alex, how do you become Head of Year?
Okay.
(35:10):
Ah, so I'll explain how I becomea Head of Year within the context
of my context and my experience.
Um, it's important to say that it mightbe different for different people.
Um, But ultimately you become ateacher first, a high school teacher.
So that requires either a fouryear degree or, uh, like I
(35:32):
did, it was a graduate diploma.
Uh, so I ended up doing, it endedup being a year and a half, I think
it was in total, uh, of, of study.
Uh, that includes a, a prac.
So that's just a, a 10 week or aterm's worth of time where you are in
a classroom learning with a mentor.
(35:52):
And um, then you get your, your teachinglicense and you start looking for jobs.
Uh, I was really privileged and I supposeit helps explain my, my drive and purpose.
When I decided to become a teacher,I, I just wanted to go back and teach
at the school that I was a student at.
(36:12):
I thought that's the, thegoal, that's the peak.
Um, and it was about giving back.
I had a couple of years at thisschool where my family was actually
going through some, some things.
There was a bit of a family breakup.
Parents ended up getting divorced and theschool was actually very accommodating in
(36:36):
terms of school fees and treated my familywith a great deal of dignity and respect,
despite having really, if they wantedto, the ability to go, well, off you go,
you've got to find a different school.
And that sort of reallyhelped shape me, I think.
(36:58):
And it also helped drive me.
So I wanted to come back to theschool, and I wanted to give back.
So if I could give back as an employee,that would have been brilliant.
So, I applied for a number ofjobs when I finished my degree.
And The school that I wentto was, was one of them.
(37:20):
I actually was quite lucky inthat I got three job offers in one
day from three different schools.
Um, so I must've been doingsomething right, Paul.
So, um, two of them were a contractand one was an ongoing position.
What an ongoing position means isthat you're basically a teacher
(37:40):
there for a rolling period of time.
You're a permanent employeerather than a contract time.
So, um, and that was happened to be theschool that I, that I worked at, that I
wanted, sorry, that I was a student at.
So that was a no brainer for me.
I started teaching at the schooland yeah, seven years later,
uh, it was time to move on.
(38:02):
So, uh, usually as a head of year, youneed some experience under your belt.
They won't give it, give you a headof year position straight from uni.
I'd, I'd imagine that would bequite a, uh, a unique opportunity
and a unique, very unique.
individual as well to getthat kind of position.
You have to have some life experience.
(38:23):
I think a 23 year old gradgoing into a head of year job
might find it a little tricky.
So I certainly feel like it helpshaving a bit of life experience.
And then really it's a promotionalposition like anything.
When they come up, you apply and,um, You have to go through that, that
(38:47):
formal process of an interview, justlike you would for any job position.
If you know how to build goodrelationships, know your students well,
know how they learn, and also knowhow to help them through issues and
problems when they arise, then you'vegiven yourself a pretty good, uh,
grounding to consider being ahead ofyour, it's also about driving culture.
(39:12):
I think you have to be very good at.
Having a clear vision of what's thecollective journey that you want
to steer this year group through.
Or, um, to use another analogy,like a shepherd in many ways.
You've got to just steer them,steer them in the right direction.
And even those, those lost sheep or, orthe black sheep sometimes as well, you
(39:37):
know, you've got to still bring themalong, bring them along for the ride.
So, so that's sort of a little bitabout the process of how you do it.
Uh, you don't really need any furtherformal qualifications to be, to be
a head of year, though it's, it'salways well, well received if you've
(39:57):
committed to further learning.
And as I mentioned earlier, my loveof learning, I'm, I'm constantly,
Trying to learn through reading.
I am doing a master's at the momentas well, so I'm doing further
study and I'll probably finish thatdegree and then go straight on to
the next one, much to the delight,no pun intended, there of my wife.
(40:22):
So yeah, that's sort of a littlebit about the process of how to go
about becoming a head of a company.
Yeah.
All right.
So the.
The short version is you get a universitylevel qualification, then you go and get
a job, get experience, but you want theright sort of experience when you're out
(40:46):
there as well, and then that sets you upfor the opportunity to go for a middle
management position like head of year.
Yeah, yeah.
And, and, you know, ultimatelyyou're dealing with, with kids who.
come from all different walks of life.
And you just have to knowhow to, how to approach them.
(41:10):
And you also increasingly are dealingwith children who have a number of mental
health or learning difficulty challenges.
And it's just about how, how can youembrace them where they're at and just
help them continue to learn and grow.
Sounds like a, an amazing place to be.
(41:30):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I'm very lucky and I, there'snothing else I'd rather be doing
from a professional perspective.
That's for sure.
Yeah, very, very fulfilled.
Thanks very much for being on Forrest.
Chat, Alex.
It's been wonderful hearing about yourjourney and the impact that you have.
(41:52):
as a Head of Year.
It's quite, quite amazing.
Thank you, Paul.
I appreciate the opportunity and, um,I, yeah, keep, keep doing this podcast.
It's, it's awesome.
So, um, I look forwardto continuing to listen.
Thanks very much.
I do sometimes ask people what'snext, but you mentioned about you're
(42:13):
already doing a bit more study.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Look, I, I've got a few ideasabout where I'm going to next.
Uh, I, I would love the opportunity to,to see where I go in, in education and
within the Catholic school in context.
I love learning about leadership.
(42:34):
So that's certainly a directionI'm, I'm considering seeing if I can
move into other levels of leadershipor, um, even if I could just help,
um, In a different context, I thinkthat's, that's what's, what drives me.
Um, with students, it's, it's great.
And I love being ahead of year.
(42:55):
Um, what does the nextfew years look like?
Well, who knows, but, um, as longas I'm, I'm learning, I think that
that's, that's, what's important.
I think as well, getting to astage now where I'm able to Get
into a bit more balance as well.
Uh, being a dad of young kids,the extracurricular stuff
(43:18):
is only going to increase.
So I want to make sure I'm,I'm there for it all too.
If I can do that and continue to grow,uh, either through study or through
other employment opportunities,then, then I'm definitely, uh,
Still see a big smile on my face.
You've been listening to Forrest.
(43:38):
Chat, where we talk about individualendeavour in Western Australia.
What it takes, what itmeans, and how you do it.
I'm your host, Paul van der Mey, andtoday we've been talking with Alex
Smith about being a Head of Year.
Remember, there are four waysto get involved with Forrest.
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(43:59):
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I'm looking forward to joiningyou with our next guest.
Until next time, enjoy making it happen.
Welcome to Forrest.
Chat, where we talk about individualendeavour in Western Australia.
What it takes, what itmeans, and how you do it.
I'm your host, Paul van der Mey,and today I'm talking with Alex
Smith about being Head of Year.
Alex started teaching about 14 years ago.
He's taught in a couple of schoolsin Perth, and now teaches in Bunbury.
(00:29):
Welcome to Forrest.
Chat, Alex.
Thank you, Paul.
Uh, really grateful to be here.
Uh, grateful for the opportunity.
And, uh, yeah, I'm lookingforward to, to this conversation.
So thank you very much for having me on.
A pleasure.
I'm looking forward to it as well.
And I'm sure our, mylisteners are as well.
Head of year.
What is that?
(00:51):
So Paul, head of year is a positionwithin middle management of teaching.
So you're not quite as high up as theprincipal or your vice principals or
your And you're deputy principals,um, you're in middle management.
So, as you would know in high school,there's years, year 7 through to year 12.
(01:11):
And usually there's one person,that's the head of year, who's in
charge of looking after a year group.
So, uh, I'm in charge of looking after ayear group of approximately 180 students.
Uh, so they're sort of entering the secondhalf of their schooling at the moment.
(01:32):
Never a dull moment as a head of year.
And, um, you really, you're at the heartof what you're doing is you're trying
to get them from point A to point B.So learning, learning how to move from
being a child, ultimately, hopefully.
Finishing their high schoolexperience with a clear vision of
(01:53):
what their future looks like andresembling a bit more of an adult.
I know sometimes that's not always thecase, but that's what we try and do.
So.
How does that actually look like?
Uh, well, ultimately we're lookingat raising or helping parents
raise good kids and in that shell.
(02:14):
So there's a lot of different elementsthat come into raising good kids.
Typically I'd often think about school asbeing an academically based institution.
Is there any more to the role thanjust the academic side of things?
Absolutely.
Academics is important and as far as I'mconcerned, academics help open doors.
(02:39):
It provides students with opportunities.
Having said that though, as ahead of year, that's only one
pillar of what I'm trying to do.
I'm trying to raise, helpraise, uh, with the parents.
So I like to call it a partnership.
It's ultimately a partnershipwith you, the head of year, the
(03:00):
parents, and also the students.
So we're trying to help them becomethe best version of themselves.
So we're looking at also helping themwith their beliefs and values, their
attitudes, and also critical thinking.
How do we engage withcontent in the real world?
(03:21):
How do we engage with oneanother in the real world?
What does respectful relationships looklike, uh, both between different genders
and what does it look like to also entera workplace and be a good contributor?
So these are all facets of learningthat kind of go beyond your typical
(03:44):
academics where you think scienceor your maths and it's about almost
learning some of these problems.
It's um, it's what I like tocall the hidden curriculum.
And why would that curriculum be hidden?
You would think that parentssend their children to school
for the academic side of things.
(04:07):
How do these other thingsactually come into being?
Yeah, that's a great question, Paul.
Um, I think because they don'ttypically get reported on.
We often associate school with grades.
Um, and if we really sort of distillit down, make it really simple.
Often, I know my experience of schoolingand how my parents approached schooling
(04:30):
was, how are your grades going?
Uh, there wasn't too many conversationsabout, are you doing okay?
How are you traveling?
Um, do you know what it lookslike to be a good person?
Do you know what it lookslike to be a good man?
And, um, I think it's importantthat we make them visible.
So they're not necessarilyexplicitly taught day in, day out.
(04:54):
In a classroom setting.
However, I'm very proud to say that atthe school that I work at, we do try
and make it as visible as possible.
We try and instill very clear values thatour students both learn and abide by.
Um, that's how we like tohelp them with their learning.
Um, and also things likelooking at their own character.
(05:17):
So looking within.
Practicing self reflection and whatstrengths and weaknesses they may
have, and also how can they overcomethose strengths or weaknesses.
That's pretty deep forkids going through school.
Like, as you said, they're,you know, they've been kids.
(05:37):
They're not adults yet.
That's some pretty heavy hitting stuff.
Absolutely.
And the way that I like to thinkabout it is trigonometry can
be really tricky for students.
And learning about Newton's laws ofphysics can be also very challenging.
So we like to throwacademic challenges at kids.
Why not throwing challenges at themas far as their personal growth, too?
(06:02):
Do you have a mandate fordoing that in some way?
So I work in a Catholic school.
So within the context of a Catholicschool, we definitely look at developing
not only the person but the heartand we believe in the spirit as well.
So that comes through experienceswhere they may experience,
(06:25):
um, forms of wonder and awe.
Uh, and ideally they might alsointeract with, with a divine
entity depending on their beliefs.
And ultimately we're hoping that if, ifthey choose to, to believe in God, then,
um, you know, that's, that's a good thing.
So, um, we like to be quite inclusivein how we approach it, but we,
we, that's how we typically do it.
(06:47):
And having that Catholic school set up,the parents anticipate that that would be
a part of what their kids are learning.
So that's where yourmandate comes from, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we do have mandates as wellthrough our governing system
where we, we do teach, um,pastoral care is what we call it.
Um, in a public school system, thereisn't an explicit pastoral care.
(07:11):
They do provide exceptionalpastoral care in, in public schools.
Um, but we also have it as,as a very clear mandate as how
we're actually governed as well.
That, um, we are developing theother elements of, of the students
who come to our community.
Public schools provide,provide pastoral care.
Um, I suppose we explicitlyhave it mandated.
(07:32):
I can't speak for, um, public schooling,um, and whether they have it mandated.
I've not worked in a, ina, uh, a public school.
Um, for me, um, Without jumping too farforward, my teaching journey was largely
spiritually and faith based as well.
Alex, what does it takeyou to be head of year?
(07:55):
Well, if I look back at myjourney, as I alluded to, I had
the great privilege of going to aCatholic school in Perth myself.
And my experience therewas an exceptional one.
I, I learned so much from, fromthe teachers that I had the great
privilege of, of being a student under.
(08:17):
And when I left the school,I was a little lost.
I'm sure that many students couldrelate to feeling a little lost.
They didn't necessarily have direction.
I had options.
I had lots of options.
I did okay at school and endedup with a fairly reasonable
opportunities at university.
(08:38):
But I liked, I liked that direction.
Um, and it was only when I startedreflecting on, on the teachers and
the influence that they had, um,many years down the track, actually,
um, talking about 10, maybe 12 yearsdown the track was that I realized
just how impactful it was to teach.
(08:59):
Um, so in 2010, I decided to, to become.
A teacher, some of it by selfreflection, also some of it by necessity.
There was a job redundancy thattook place at the same time, which
was a blessing really in hindsight,but it forced my hand a little bit.
(09:22):
So I did my grad dip and Iwent headfirst into teaching.
I went back to the school that I wasactually a student at, and I taught there
for seven years of my teaching career.
And, um, I was very, very privilegedto, to have that opportunity to
(09:42):
be able to give back a little bit.
So to me, becoming a teacher,firstly, was more of a vocation.
I felt compelled to do it.
I felt compelled to give back.
There was a driving needto, to serve others.
And that, um, that still drives me today.
(10:04):
It's just how I servehas shifted slightly.
I spend a little less time in theclassroom, and I spend a little bit
more time with parents, dealing withconversations that might be higher
end, helping parents and studentswhen there's problems that arise.
Things that are beyond our control moreoften than not, uh, life issues, mental
(10:27):
health issues, uh, breakdowns of families.
Um, you know, we also get some otherhigh end, higher risk kind of, um,
situations that, that I'm presented with.
And, um, that requires a degreeof emotional regulation as well.
So I've had to continually upskill.
(10:50):
Um, so I've been a, been aheadof you for four years now.
And I think one of the things that Ican reflect upon is how to be ahead
of year is you have to be the bestversion of yourself and get really good
at dialing in how can you be the bestversion of yourself as often as possible.
(11:12):
Not perfect, but just thebest version of yourself.
That's always something goodto strive for, I think, to be
the best version of yourself.
Self reflection and what youcan actually gain from that.
Yeah.
Well, it's like, I feel likeit's almost like a muscle, right?
The more that you useit, the stronger it gets.
And then in my experience as a headof year, we've, we ask our students
(11:36):
to reflect on their characterand their character development.
And I think it would bewildly hypocritical of me
if I don't do that myself.
So I very much walk thewalk and I talk the talk.
Um, so I, I constantly do the,the character strength surveys the
same time that the students, ifI ask them to do it, I do it too.
(11:56):
And I reflect on it as well.
You know, one of the interesting thingsthat came up for me was, um, self
regulation seemed to be towards thebottom of a bit of a weakness for me.
And, um, I'm instantlyable to reflect on that.
It's something so simple.
It's, uh, chocolate and me,for example, forget about it.
(12:16):
You mean it's so good youcan't forget about it.
That's right.
So we have, I had to practice that myselfand it's, it's that in itself takes time
and there's relapses and you get back onthe bandwagon and you just keep trying.
But I think it's the, the process isso important as well as the striving.
(12:37):
And, um, it ultimately keeps comingback to, to what I mentioned earlier,
Paul, that it's, it's about, by servingothers, I think you serve yourself too.
You find that you're far morefulfilled, um, when you feel like
you, you're actually having animpact in the lives of others.
Absolutely.
And I've talked on the podcast about, youknow, how I want this podcast to do good.
(13:01):
And that's in a similar vein, I think.
Oh, absolutely.
And, and I know that you'vedefinitely having an impact.
So it's, it's great stuff.
Thank you.
Is there anything else you can thinkof about that's the element of what
it takes you to do what you do?
Yeah, look, I think, um, it's importantto explain that it's a, it's a big
(13:23):
step up from teaching in a classroom.
Um, as a high school teacher, you mightteach somewhere around the region of 24
lessons and maybe five different classes,four or five different classes, depending
on your subject area, possibly even more.
But, uh, you might know 150students reasonably well within that
(13:48):
role, that context of a teacher.
As a head of year, the expectationwould be that you know 180 students,
not reasonably well, but fairly well,uh, to the point where ideally you,
you're able to, to catch problemsbefore they arise in an ideal world.
None of this is not always the case.
(14:08):
Um,
it's, it's important that you,you develop relationships.
I think that's what it boils down to.
You, you really need to bea relational sort of person.
You need to enjoy, uh,working through problems.
Conflict resolution is,is a big part of the role.
(14:29):
Being comfortable intricky situations too.
I think that that's important.
Um, as, as I'm sure we all know,when it comes to your children,
when things go wrong, that's it'shigh stakes conversations and having
the ability to understand that it'shigh stakes, acknowledge that it's
high stakes, but not allow it toover, overcome you and consume you.
(14:52):
is quite important.
So I like to describe it asalmost keeping an even keel.
So to use a boating analogy, sometimesyou're in a storm and it's a big one,
but you've got to keep that even keel.
You've got to stay level headed andultimately just come back to what's in
(15:12):
the best interests of everyone here.
And if you do that and you dothat often enough, I've found
that more often than not.
You'll do, you'll do well byothers and it'll work out.
So there's a little bit of, okay, you, youneed to concentrate and focus, I guess, on
(15:33):
being, uh, that calm person in the room.
Yep.
Which means not triggeringall your emotions and, and,
and that sort of things.
And I, I could imagine thatthere would be situations that
might actually be, uh, triggers.
From your life experience, youknow, seeing this is like, maybe a
(15:54):
trigger for something in your life,but you've actually got to overcome
that trigger and be the calm one.
Absolutely.
Because there's
probably no one else being calm.
More often than not, no.
Yeah, and, and, I think, uh, practicing,uh, Practicing my spirituality, practicing
(16:17):
my faith, practicing my routine soI can be the best version of myself.
It really helps me maintain thatcalm in those tricky situations.
And absolutely, you said triggers.
Oh yeah.
There have been multiple situationswhere I come home after a day and
I wonder why I've been so riled up.
(16:39):
I might not have looked so riled up.
But inside internally,I definitely felt it.
It's usually for me straight upstraight out to do some gardening, some
woodworking, or maybe going and liftingsome weights or going for a run or even
just practicing some some breathingjust so I can just work through that.
(16:59):
You've got to know what works for youin a particular situation so that you
can actually Release it and let it go.
Yeah, yeah.
And for me, it's important that Idon't come home and that actually
comes out of me and affects my family.
That's super important.
Um, I, I liken driving into mygarage as almost like this, this
(17:26):
moment going into another dimension.
I'm going into my family home andI can't bring that home with me.
And I've got to do what I need todo, so I'm not bringing that home.
Easy to say, not always easy to do, but,um, I think it'd be unfair for me to allow
the frustrations that I might be feeling,or I might've had a great day as well.
(17:46):
That often helps, um, but, um, it'sunfair, especially on the bad days to,
to let it impact on, on how I presentas a, as a husband and a father.
So, yeah.
Yeah, that's it.
Uh, it's very important to be thatgood role model in the, in the family.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and, uh, I think that's a, a bigpart of my responsibility too, as a head
(18:09):
EVO, you want to be a, you want to be agood role model for, for your students
and, and just for the broader community.
And I think it's, it's abouthelping the community as well.
Um, lift, lifting the community up.
So we've had a look at whatit takes to be Head of Year.
(18:29):
We'll have a break now, and after thebreak, we'll have a look at what it means.
We've had a look at what it takes.
Now, let's have a look at what it means.
Alex, what does it mean to you,your family, or the community
(18:51):
that you can be Head of Year?
I love this question, Paul.
Thank you.
So I'll try and break themup as best as possible.
Uh, so to be a head of year for me is,is part of me fulfilling a purpose.
I believe we're all here for a purpose.
And if I'm serving others and I'mhelping the community and I am
(19:16):
in the process of helping otherscontinually growing, um, then it
means, it means an awful lot to me.
I. I still see myself as a student.
Um, I'm turning 42 this year andI'm, I still see myself as a student.
So as a head of year, what a wonderfulway to continue to learn and grow.
(19:39):
I'm in a position where my, myschool's really great at helping,
helping other teachers and themiddle managers continue to grow.
So we get lots of professionallearning opportunities.
I'm doing further study myself.
Uh, cause I want to continue to, to grow.
So I'm, I'm, I'm very much embracinga love of learning and the position
(20:03):
allows me to, to certainly do that, uh,as well as, as my school, furthermore,
uh, what it means to me is, is thatI'm hopefully making a difference
in the lives of other people and notthat I'm looking for that validation.
And that's one of the interestingthings about teaching.
(20:24):
You seldom, if ever, knowyou've made the impact.
But every now and then you get theselittle moments and they're gold.
They're absolute gold.
I've had a number of interactionswith students who have graduated,
and I had in my classes, you know,sort of 10 years down the track.
(20:45):
Last year I actually had a wonderfulexperience where I bumped into a previous
student of mine, and he went out of hisway to thank me for how I taught him
and how I really resonated with him.
And so he gave me some great feedbackon the sort of teacher that I was.
And, um, yeah, that was, that was amazing.
(21:07):
And it's, it's lovely to knowthat you have had a positive
impact on, on the lives of people.
Uh, so it certainly is importantto me as far as what it means
to me, um, as a head of year.
It's challenging.
I like to stay, um, I liketo stay quite challenged.
There's never a dullmoment as a head of year.
(21:28):
So it's the sort of job where youdon't always know what's coming.
If you, if you like being organizedand you like knowing what you're doing
every minute, it's another job for you.
So, um, yeah, knowing, knowing what I'mwalking into each day varies wildly.
Um, And, and also the people.
(21:49):
I think it's really important for me toacknowledge that I work with a really
great group of people, in my pastoralcare team, as well as, the principal,
the senior managers and the staff.
We've got amazing people whoare all very like minded, which
really just helps every day.
(22:10):
It makes the hard parts of life, orthe difficult parts of life, that
much easier knowing you've got thatgroup of people who've got your back.
So, so that's what it means to me.
So for my family, Paul, um,
I think being ahead of year hascertainly helped me as a parent.
I've got, um, I've got threeyoung boys at home and it's,
(22:33):
it's good being ahead of year and,and just observing parenting styles
and ways of parenting and, um, Justpicking things up along the way.
Uh, so for my family, I think, um,they would certainly appreciate that.
In my role, while it's busy,it certainly allows me to, to
(22:55):
be a better father, I think.
And it also gives me alittle bit of time too.
One of the great privileges of, ofbeing, uh, in the education industry is
that you do have the school holidays.
There's, there's often the,uh, That assumption that we're
just kicking back and relaxing.
Not always the case, um, but we do have alittle bit more time and freedom where I
(23:19):
can spend real quality time with my kids.
And that's certainly whyI stay in the industry.
And so I can, I can be present and reallybe an active and hopefully loving father.
It's so good to be able to share that,well, it's not really extra time, but
(23:42):
more time than certainly someone who'sgot a regular, you know, 9 5 job and
you know, they get the weekends andthey get 4 weeks of leave and every 10
years or 15 years or whatever, they geta few, they get a couple of months off.
That's right,
yeah.
It's a far more regularopportunity to spend that time.
(24:03):
Absolutely.
And, um.
I try and make that asintentional as possible.
Try and be present.
Easy to say, not always easy to do.
So, um, try and be aspresent as possibly can be.
The kids are only young once, youknow, and, um, all of the research
and data suggests that thoseformative years connection with the
(24:24):
parents are integral to what lifemay look like for kids as teenagers.
So if you've got a really close bondwith your kids, Uh, before the age of
eight, I believe it is, uh, when thosetricky sort of issues arise, uh, that
(24:44):
invariably do for teenagers, uh, you throwin technology in there as well and social
media and the world in which they'refaced with and they have to grow up in
is vastly different to, to what we had.
And if you've got that trust, thatbond with your children, They'll come
(25:06):
to you, they'll talk to you about theproblems and it's often when they don't
talk to you, that's when problems,really, really big problems can arise.
So yeah, so I think it, it helps me bea better father and it helps me be more
connected with my children and obviouslyspending more time with my wife as well.
(25:27):
Um, who's also an educator, so weget to have the holidays together
too, so that's, that's awesome.
She's been rather busy.
I think she'd want to get backto work soon, wouldn't you?
Yeah, yeah.
She's been, she's been busy with,um, with our boys and she's,
she's done a tremendous job.
Uh, she is picking up a littlebit of work, so that's going to
be interesting to manage as well.
(25:48):
Just time management and how we'regoing to navigate through that.
But, um, yeah, I'm, I'm confidentthat we can, we can do that.
So yeah, it'll be, it'll be good.
Um, so, and Paul just supposedto go to the last point.
Um, what does it meanto, to the community?
I would like to think that the, thecommunity is appreciative of, of the
(26:11):
role of, of heads of year and middlemanagers in, in education, sometimes
It'd be good to get a little bit morefeedback, you know, um, I'm very feedback
driven kind of guy, both good and bad.
And, you know, we have a negativitybias, I think, in our society, so more
than happy to provide negative feedback.
(26:32):
When, when things are going well,we often don't hear about it.
So, um, you know, I, I'm gratefulthat within my school context, uh, the
parents are pretty active and, uh, I,I get, um, some lovely comments and
emails and, um, across, across theyear when, when things are going well.
Uh, from a broader community perspective,I think that, um, there, there is
(26:59):
very much a need to continue to.
help our young people grow and learn, andI think the community acknowledges that.
And um, we need to provide ouryoung people with the right tools,
the right spaces, and the rightopportunities to, to do that.
So, um, if I can keep passing onthat message and we all respond as
(27:24):
a community, I think then, um, yeah,it'll, it'll be a, a wonderful result.
It sounds to me like the role that youhave effectively moving quite a large
number of soon to be adults througha system where you're trying to get
(27:45):
them to be the best people they can beand the best adults that they can be.
Yeah.
Well, they become society.
That's the goal, Paul, andthat's the ideal, right?
I think if we, um If we can helppeople, as I mentioned earlier,
be the best version of themselves,then I, I think we can only, um, we
(28:06):
can only improve as, as a society.
It's a bit, a bit like if you putgood things into the soil, you can
get good things out, but if you putbad things into the soil, you're not
going to get much good out of it.
So what you're doing is trying to putgood things into the soil in that way.
(28:28):
Absolutely.
It's all about planting seeds.
We don't know when they'll germinate,but hopefully they, they do.
And, and they'll have what theyneed to actually grow and thrive.
That's right.
Yeah.
That's, that's very much, um, an analogythat I, that I use quite regularly, um,
about, yeah, the planting seeds and it'sjust about, again, those opportunities.
(28:51):
So if we can provide kids with, withopportunities, even when they make, or
especially when they make poor choices,
To not judge, to not shame, to, um, go,okay, well that wasn't the best decision.
Was it when you see the results?
Yeah.
Yeah.
You might agree.
(29:13):
, uh, yeah.
Yelling at that teacher ordoing this or doing that.
Probably not the greatest idea.
How could you have done that better?
Um, and when they realize that you're notgoing to, um, you're not going to judge
them, that you, you're there to help them.
Learn from that choice.
The poor choice.
Um, they usually respond more oftenthan not fairly well, I've found.
(29:38):
It's um, you know, we're a highlyjudgmental and I suppose in many
ways justice driven society.
We get caught up in, in needingthings to be right and fair without
having all the answers sometimesor having all of the context.
Um, I think it's very easy sometimesto, to look at a student who continues
(30:01):
to make some poor choices and, andjudge them as disengaged or just not
being a particularly good young personor they, they don't have good values.
But do we really know what's going on?
Um, I like to use a, an icebreak, an iceberg sort of analogy.
More often than not, the behaviorthat we're presented with is about 10
(30:24):
percent of what's going on because youonly see 10 percent of the iceberg.
What's the 90%?
And I suppose going back to what I do as ahead of year and how I do it, that's part
of my job too, to, to look underneath,to, to actually have a good look at
that iceberg and go, okay, there's,there's a few things going on here.
(30:44):
So that's why.
We're getting the behavior that we'regetting or the actions that we're getting.
So, um, yeah, that's, um, that'scertainly a big part of it.
A
very interesting place to be.
And for some kids that'll be apivotal interaction in their life.
Yeah.
Uh, I hope so.
(31:06):
And, and like I said, you, you usuallynever know, you'll get a handshake, you
know, and, um, But that's all you needto know, and not in the, certainly not
in the business of measuring someone'sdevelopment and measuring whether
they're becoming a better person or not.
We never know when they'll germinate,as that's said, but hopefully we
(31:31):
provide them with the experiences, thetools, and the grace sometimes as well.
That's really what's needed, so theycan germinate when they're ready.
I suppose the only other thing I mightsay is as, as far as what it means to
be, to be a head of year is that for me,you're, you're a leader, essentially,
(31:57):
whether you want to be or not, as a headof year, you're, you're a leader, and
you have to embrace that part of thejob, and it, to be a good leader, you
have to shine the light on yourself,you've got to look in the mirror, and
you have to do that, that work as well.
(32:17):
Um, I think it's, um, SimonSinek says, know your why,
you know, start with the why.
And why am I ahead ofyear to make a difference?
If I go a little bit deeper, I'm alsoahead of year because it helps me be
the best possible person that I can be.
(32:39):
It forces me to continue to learn andgrow and develop and not stagnate.
Which is certainly, before I becamea teacher, I feel I was on that
sort of pathway of stagnation.
So that, uh, redundancy thatyou faced earlier in life was
that blessing in disguise?
(33:00):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it definitely was.
And, um, I recall this reallypivotal moment, um, sitting,
sitting at the dinner table with,um, with my mum and my stepdad.
And They just said to me,what do you really want to do?
You know, you've, you'vebeen made redundant.
(33:21):
You've got a bit of money.
I've got a nice payout.
I was, I was in a fairly highpaying profession and role before
I decided to move into teaching.
And, um, at least from the external,I would have looked quite successful.
I wasn't happy, I was pretty horrid asfar as what my life looked like, but
(33:46):
um, I had done some coaching prior andI really enjoyed working with those
kids when I was coaching at university.
So, It was like this moment ofclarity at that dinner table,
like what I really want to do.
They were sort of probing me and reallynot, not letting me just shirk the answer.
(34:07):
They wanted to me to dial in onwhat do you really want to do?
And I just said, I think I want to teach.
And it was that night I got homeand I applied to, to do the teaching
degree and I think within 10 daysit was, I was accepted and I started
(34:28):
about a month and a half later.
Wow, so it was very quick.
It was, yeah, yeah, and um, just wentfor it and I haven't looked back since.
Fantastic, well that sounds like agreat point in our conversation to head
to a break and then we'll talk about.
(34:49):
Just how you actually achieve that.
We've had a look at what it means, nowlet's have a look at how you do it.
Alex, how do you become Head of Year?
Okay.
(35:10):
Ah, so I'll explain how I becomea Head of Year within the context
of my context and my experience.
Um, it's important to say that it mightbe different for different people.
Um, But ultimately you become ateacher first, a high school teacher.
So that requires either a fouryear degree or, uh, like I
(35:32):
did, it was a graduate diploma.
Uh, so I ended up doing, it endedup being a year and a half, I think
it was in total, uh, of, of study.
Uh, that includes a, a prac.
So that's just a, a 10 week or aterm's worth of time where you are in
a classroom learning with a mentor.
(35:52):
And um, then you get your, your teachinglicense and you start looking for jobs.
Uh, I was really privileged and I supposeit helps explain my, my drive and purpose.
When I decided to become a teacher,I, I just wanted to go back and teach
at the school that I was a student at.
(36:12):
I thought that's the, thegoal, that's the peak.
Um, and it was about giving back.
I had a couple of years at thisschool where my family was actually
going through some, some things.
There was a bit of a family breakup.
Parents ended up getting divorced and theschool was actually very accommodating in
(36:36):
terms of school fees and treated my familywith a great deal of dignity and respect,
despite having really, if they wantedto, the ability to go, well, off you go,
you've got to find a different school.
And that sort of reallyhelped shape me, I think.
(36:58):
And it also helped drive me.
So I wanted to come back to theschool, and I wanted to give back.
So if I could give back as an employee,that would have been brilliant.
So, I applied for a number ofjobs when I finished my degree.
And The school that I wentto was, was one of them.
(37:20):
I actually was quite lucky inthat I got three job offers in one
day from three different schools.
Um, so I must've been doingsomething right, Paul.
So, um, two of them were a contractand one was an ongoing position.
What an ongoing position means isthat you're basically a teacher
(37:40):
there for a rolling period of time.
You're a permanent employeerather than a contract time.
So, um, and that was happened to be theschool that I, that I worked at, that I
wanted, sorry, that I was a student at.
So that was a no brainer for me.
I started teaching at the schooland yeah, seven years later,
uh, it was time to move on.
(38:02):
So, uh, usually as a head of year, youneed some experience under your belt.
They won't give it, give you a headof year position straight from uni.
I'd, I'd imagine that would bequite a, uh, a unique opportunity
and a unique, very unique.
individual as well to getthat kind of position.
You have to have some life experience.
(38:23):
I think a 23 year old gradgoing into a head of year job
might find it a little tricky.
So I certainly feel like it helpshaving a bit of life experience.
And then really it's a promotionalposition like anything.
When they come up, you apply and,um, You have to go through that, that
(38:47):
formal process of an interview, justlike you would for any job position.
If you know how to build goodrelationships, know your students well,
know how they learn, and also knowhow to help them through issues and
problems when they arise, then you'vegiven yourself a pretty good, uh,
grounding to consider being ahead ofyour, it's also about driving culture.
(39:12):
I think you have to be very good at.
Having a clear vision of what's thecollective journey that you want
to steer this year group through.
Or, um, to use another analogy,like a shepherd in many ways.
You've got to just steer them,steer them in the right direction.
And even those, those lost sheep or, orthe black sheep sometimes as well, you
(39:37):
know, you've got to still bring themalong, bring them along for the ride.
So, so that's sort of a little bitabout the process of how you do it.
Uh, you don't really need any furtherformal qualifications to be, to be
a head of year, though it's, it'salways well, well received if you've
(39:57):
committed to further learning.
And as I mentioned earlier, my loveof learning, I'm, I'm constantly,
Trying to learn through reading.
I am doing a master's at the momentas well, so I'm doing further
study and I'll probably finish thatdegree and then go straight on to
the next one, much to the delight,no pun intended, there of my wife.
(40:22):
So yeah, that's sort of a littlebit about the process of how to go
about becoming a head of a company.
Yeah.
All right.
So the.
The short version is you get a universitylevel qualification, then you go and get
a job, get experience, but you want theright sort of experience when you're out
(40:46):
there as well, and then that sets you upfor the opportunity to go for a middle
management position like head of year.
Yeah, yeah.
And, and, you know, ultimatelyyou're dealing with, with kids who.
come from all different walks of life.
And you just have to knowhow to, how to approach them.
(41:10):
And you also increasingly are dealingwith children who have a number of mental
health or learning difficulty challenges.
And it's just about how, how can youembrace them where they're at and just
help them continue to learn and grow.
Sounds like a, an amazing place to be.
(41:30):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I'm very lucky and I, there'snothing else I'd rather be doing
from a professional perspective.
That's for sure.
Yeah, very, very fulfilled.
Thanks very much for being on Forrest.
Chat, Alex.
It's been wonderful hearing about yourjourney and the impact that you have.
(41:52):
as a Head of Year.
It's quite, quite amazing.
Thank you, Paul.
I appreciate the opportunity and, um,I, yeah, keep, keep doing this podcast.
It's, it's awesome.
So, um, I look forwardto continuing to listen.
Thanks very much.
I do sometimes ask people what'snext, but you mentioned about you're
(42:13):
already doing a bit more study.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Look, I, I've got a few ideasabout where I'm going to next.
Uh, I, I would love the opportunity to,to see where I go in, in education and
within the Catholic school in context.
I love learning about leadership.
(42:34):
So that's certainly a directionI'm, I'm considering seeing if I can
move into other levels of leadershipor, um, even if I could just help,
um, In a different context, I thinkthat's, that's what's, what drives me.
Um, with students, it's, it's great.
And I love being ahead of year.
(42:55):
Um, what does the nextfew years look like?
Well, who knows, but, um, as longas I'm, I'm learning, I think that
that's, that's, what's important.
I think as well, getting to astage now where I'm able to Get
into a bit more balance as well.
Uh, being a dad of young kids,the extracurricular stuff
(43:18):
is only going to increase.
So I want to make sure I'm,I'm there for it all too.
If I can do that and continue to grow,uh, either through study or through
other employment opportunities,then, then I'm definitely, uh,
Still see a big smile on my face.
You've been listening to Forrest.
(43:38):
Chat, where we talk about individualendeavour in Western Australia.
What it takes, what itmeans, and how you do it.
I'm your host, Paul van der Mey, andtoday we've been talking with Alex
Smith about being a Head of Year.
Remember, there are four waysto get involved with Forrest.
Chat.
Share the domain forrest.
(43:59):
chat with your friends andfamily and people you meet.
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chat slash episodes.
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book an interview at forrest.
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(44:21):
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I'm looking forward to joiningyou with our next guest.
Until next time, enjoy making it happen.
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