February 4, 2025 • 54 mins
Alison talks about walking the Camino trail, what it takes, what it means and how to do it.
My favourite quote of the episode is "Yes, and you do have plenty of time to contemplate. We didn't set out to particularly, do any sort of deep and meaningful introspection, but you just do as a natural consequence of doing this, this walking. And for me, it definitely taught me to live more simply because, you've just got your backpack, and you just put it on at the start of the day and off you go. And it's that rhythm And I certainly thought, why have I got a house full of stuff at home when I'm living quite comfortably with what I'm carrying on my back? So when we did get home, I went through the house and I had a big clean out. and now, I probably need to do it again, but, yes, it certainly teaches you, or renews what you might've already known, confirms what you might've already known that we, we do carry around too much stuff, really."
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to Forrest.Chat.
Where we talk about individualendeavour in Western Australia.
What it takes, what itmeans, and how you do it.
I'm your host, Paul van der Mey,and today we're talking with Alison
Kidman about walking the Camino Trail.
Alison has known about theCamino Trail for many years.
(00:27):
But she never thought thatshe was able to achieve that.
Later in life, shedecided to run a marathon.
Doing the marathon gave Alison themotivation and the drive and the
belief that she was able to takeon something like the Camino Trail.
And she has.
(00:49):
Welcome to Forrest.Chat, Alison.
Thank you, Paul.
Thanks for inviting me.
I've been really enjoying andbeing inspired by and intrigued
by and interested in, all theother, episodes of your podcast.
So I hope that people, feelsimilarly from, my story.
Oh, thank you very much.
I'm sure they will, Alison.
(01:10):
The broad range of storieswe bring to Forrest.Chat is
an element of that, interest.
And, yes, thank you for yoursupport of the podcast as well.
Alison, we're talkingabout the Camino Trail.
What on earth is the Camino Trail?
Okay, I can give you a quick and dirtyhistory and don't quote me on any of
(01:32):
this, but, Camino is Spanish for theway or the path, so it's really a path.
And Santiago translates to St.
James.
So iago is James in Spanish.
So it's the way of St.
James.
And St.
James was an apostle back in the day.
(01:53):
And, the apostles were sent out, I thinkfrom Jerusalem to, spread the word of God.
So St.
James went to what is nowGalicia in northwestern Spain.
And, anyway, he came back and saidto the king at the time, Look, I've
been a bit of a failure, I haven'treally, converted many people.
(02:14):
So the king promptly beheaded him.
And, so some of James's disciples tookhis body back to Galicia and buried him.
And that was the end of that.
They knew where his body was, theydied and so nobody knew where he was.
And then some, centuries later.
(02:35):
Somebody found some bones in a field andwent to the local bishop and said, we
think, I think this is the body of St.
James.
And the bishop agreed.
So he built a church which wascalled, Santiago The Cathedral
of Santiago de Compostela.
Compostela meaning field of starsbecause it was this field under the
(02:59):
stars where the bones were found.
And, so then people started makingpilgrimages to, pay their respects to St.
James.
They might have had someailments that they were hoping.
would be fixed by, makinga pilgrimage there.
And it grew from there.
So we're talking about,somewhere around the 9th century.
So this is many thousands of yearsthe Camino has been there for.
(03:21):
So people were just leaving theirhomes in Europe, wherever they were
in Europe, and making a pilgrimageto, Santiago de Compostela.
And, so then.
Because, so many people were hikingthrough, making a Camino, services
started popping up along the way.
So people would offer food, they'doffer lodgings, there's various
(03:45):
monasteries through Europe, so theywould be, offering, shelter and
things for pilgrims along the way.
And then it got to, so people would,make a pilgrimage and then go back home.
And how did, people know they weren'tjust saying they did it and just going
around the block and coming home?
So they, the scallop shell became thesymbol for the Camino because, Santiago
(04:10):
de Compostela is probably about 50 k'sfrom the coast of Galicia, but scallop
shells proliferate along that coast.
So the thing that they would dowas take a scallop shell back.
To say, yes, I did actually go.
So this is Strava before computers.
Before Strava, yes.
(04:31):
so that became the symbol of theCamino and today, lodgings will
have a scallop shell embedded abovethe doorway to show that they are,
and there's, you're still called apilgrim if you walk the Camino today.
Yes, there's scallop shells at, various,pilgrim hostels and that sort of thing.
And a lot of villages along the waywill have, they'll mark the way,
(04:53):
with scallop shells in and out of thevillage, and all that sort of thing.
So there's some really nicetraditions that have, built up
over these thousands of years.
And another one is that you have apilgrim passport, and you, so you get a
stamp in your passport and you, all theway until you get to your destination.
The cathedral and you canget a certificate then to
(05:13):
show that you've walked,
You've actually followed the path.
Yes.
And, the, so the passports all alsohave the thing of, so you know, now
there's, like about 350,000 peoplearrive at the cathedral every year.
That's a lot.
And that's a lot.
And possibly more since, Covid,So there's a lot of, throughout
Europe there's a lot of lodgingsand hostels and that sort of thing.
(05:37):
and they're for pilgrims.
They're not for just, Joe Blow who'sdecided to backpack, for a few weeks.
So having your pilgrim passport is away to show that yes, I'm a genuine,
I'm walking towards the cathedral.
I haven't just slung a backpackon because I'm, I've got a uni
break or something, I'm actuallywalking towards the cathedral.
(05:58):
So yeah, there's that about it.
And so it's just, it's, you get a senseof history because it is something
that's been around for so long.
So very interesting.
And lots of people areactually walking it.
They are.
Very interesting.
Yep.
And how long is the trail?
Where does it start and finish?
(06:19):
Oh,
okay.
So when I first heard about it, I'dheard that this, Camino in Spain.
So I thought that was, Ithought there was the Camino.
which there certainly is one inSpain, which is about 750 kilometers.
And it starts at a little villageon the France and Spanish border
called Saint Jean Pierre duPort and goes through Spain.
(06:43):
over the Pyrenees and finishesat, Santiago de Compostela.
But then I found out that there'sactually lots of trails because
they come all through Europe.
And there's, so there's, and onethat, so I'll walk this with my sister
Josie and one of her, and when we weretalking about it, one of her friends
had said, Oh, there's other trails.
(07:05):
The Camino is not just this one throughSpain, and no, we didn't know that.
and anyway, she had actually, theyhad actually walked through France,
which that one is called the ViaPodiensis, which starts in a place
called Le Puy en Velay, which isin the south, southeast of France.
(07:26):
and you, so that's also 750 kilometres,but you're walking in France and
you're starting in the east and youwalk west and you finish at Saint Jean
Pierre du Port where the other one.
So a lot of people will start in Franceand carry on and go right through
to Spain and do 1500 kilometers.
Oh wow, so it's like the end to end.
(07:46):
Yes.
They're not meeting at the end point.
Okay.
So we had decided that we would finishat Saint Jean Pierre du Port, but
when we were actually getting, towardsthe finish, we actually really wished
that we had planned to go right tothe cathedral, because, some of the
other people that we were, , meetingalong the way were going right ahead.
(08:07):
So when we came back, I thought I'vereally got, unfinished business.
And, so my husband and I actuallywent, a couple of, few months ago.
so there's another onethat comes from Portugal.
So that's called the Camino Portuguese,and that's 600 kilometres, and you
can walk from Lisbon up to, Santiago.
But we started in Porto.
(08:29):
So we did about 270 kilometres, butit did give me the experience of
actually finishing at the cathedral,which is, it takes your breath away.
You come, up the street and there's aplaza and the cathedral opens up in front
of you and you just, have this sensationthat you're doing this thing that people
have been doing for thousands of years.
(08:50):
And even though I'm not Catholic, Idon't have any affinity, it's just.
The, the knowing that so many peoplehave done this before you, and you're
a dot in the universe, really, yeah.
Wow.
Okay, so that'll be somethingto talk about when we ask about
the meaning of what you've done.
Yeah.
So it's very interesting.
(09:10):
And the trail, is it,what sort of trail is it?
It's trail.
it's apart from when you go throughvillages, and it goes through, you're
going through, it's very rural, France.
So if you imagine, if people arefamiliar with Western Australia, it's
kind of like, you know, you're walkingaround in Dumbleyung, Lake Grace.
(09:32):
There's tiny, except the villagesare much, there's villages, every
five k's or something you can see.
And if you're not walking througha village, you can see one over on
a hill, but they're tiny villages.
there's paved roads in and outof the villages, but, most of the
time you're walking, there's alot of in and out of river gorges.
(09:57):
You're following the Lott River forquite a way, and you so you'll come
up the top of the, the gorge andthen you'll, and you just know that
you're going to go back down again.
And then you just know that you'regoing to come back up again.
You've got plenty of distance to do that.
Yes.
and it's, so it's, and you'regoing across paddocks and through,
and very rocky, very hilly.
(10:20):
extraordinarily scenic, beautiful.
Yeah.
it really is a, walk across thecountryside to get to where you're going.
Yes.
and because this is, so it's rural Franceand, they actually really embrace the
Camino because we just know in Australiathat people have gradually been migrating
to the coast that that some of theselittle country towns really struggle.
(10:43):
Because, they've lost their bank, they'velost their post office, they've, all the
kids have gone off and not come back.
so it's similar in France, in,in these rural parts of France.
So the Camino for them is, it bringspeople coming through and it's become
their, in some ways their lifeblood,it just keeps people coming through.
(11:05):
you're welcome, they welcome you.
Really good to hear that.
Yeah.
they do embrace it and in a way thatyou're walking and, you'll come across,
you might be walking along the backof someone's paddock and there'll
be a tree and there'll be a benchunder the tree and a sign saying,
pilgrims, sit down, have a rest.
so they'll, they do things likethis or there might be a, a table
(11:28):
with a flask of tea and a flask ofcoffee and a little container of
cakes that might be a specialty ofthe region and just a donation box.
pilgrims,
Have a cuppa, have apiece of cake or whatever.
Yeah, and you just see this all along andit's just amazing, yeah, how they have it.
Yeah, it's a, it's an ongoing event.
(11:50):
It is, yeah.
and just the way they embrace it andjust, and it's just another thing
that this is, it's, been going forso long, so many thousands of years
that, you're part of a tradition, yeah.
Yeah.
And how long does it taketo actually walk there?
So we set out, we, we thought wewould do, average about 20 k's a day.
(12:13):
And it kind of varied aroundthat because things come in
like, can you get accommodation?
you're not going to get accommodationneatly every 20 kilometers.
And, but that was probably our average.
Some days we might have walked 28,some days we might have done 18.
But it took us, so it was five weeks
(12:34):
Five weeks walking every day.
Yes, yep.
So what are you talking, 35 days of?
Yes, about 35, yeah, And we had aflight, to catch at the end of it.
So we, we did have to, Make sure we,
hit all your stops.
We, yeah, if we didn't we had to makeit, we might have had to make it up, walk
(12:55):
extra or, didn't actually come to thatbut yeah, it was fine but yeah, so that's,
how long we took, 35, around 35, 5 weeks.
And is there lots of informationto help you plan that out?
There is lots, so a lot of peoplemight be familiar with a movie called
The Way, which stars, Martin Sheen.
(13:17):
his son sets out to do the Caminoand dies, so Martin Sheen goes
over there and in his, whateverhis character is, I can't remember.
and walks it on behalf of his son.
It's quite a good movie, popsup on SBS every now and then.
there's novels being written aboutit, there's documentaries, there's,
blogs, there's Facebook groups,there's, printed guidebooks, maps.
(13:37):
So there's actually a lot of informationyou can it's not hard to do a lot of
homework if you're thinking of doing it,
You look around enough andyou'll have more than enough
information to do your planning to
You will probably have too much, yeah.
Too much?
Too much, yeah.
That kind of happened to us.
So what happened to us, we were planningto do it in May of 2020 and, We booked
(14:03):
our flights at the end of January in 2020.
And I'm sure we all remember whathappened between January and May in 2020.
COVID came along and the world as weknew it basically turned upside down.
so we, we were determined that wewere still going to do this Camino.
(14:24):
We didn't know how long wewere going to have to wait.
and as it turned out, so wedidn't get our flights refunded.
We just had them, held for us.
We had faith that, things would pickup and that the airline was going to
come back and, we'd be able to do it.
And so as it turned out, wedid it in, September 2022.
So a couple of years later.
(14:45):
Yeah, about two and a half years.
But what had happened was because, Ihad done so much reading and everything.
in preparation for May 2020.
When it came to 2022, we just thoughtlet's, and we'd had this experience
of COVID where stuff can happen, youjust don't know what's going to happen.
we certainly had knowledge ofit because we had done this
(15:07):
preparation, but we thought we'rejust going to go and do it this time.
we're not going to, we didn't.
book too much in advance.
We wanted to be as flexible as we could.
But we had, I would recommendhaving good knowledge first.
But yes, you can have informationoverload and you'll just confuse
yourself and, it gets too much.
(15:30):
It's a lot to hold in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Alison, what does it take you todo a walk like the Camino Trail?
so you need to be fit.
If you, we encountered lots of peoplewho weren't particularly fit and, they,
I think you'll just have a more enjoyableexperience if you're fit, and you know
(15:53):
your body and you know the type of gearthat suits you, they'll, people get.
people get appalling blisters.
And, we always come across peoplewhere there, there might be a stream
or wherever there was a bit of water,there'd be someone with their boots off
with their feet in the water because,
they needed some relief,
(16:14):
they just, they were so uncomfortable.
you just got, you're justgoing to enjoy it much more if
you have a level of fitness.
Especially if you're going to do, likea five, four, five, six weeks or longer.
you'll find that a lot of Frenchpeople just dip in and out in the same
way that we might do the Bibbulmunbecause it's there and we're here.
(16:35):
We're close to it.
they can do two weeks, in theirannual holidays or whatever.
But if you're coming from further awayand you're going to do the whole thing
because that's your one go at it.
you need to be quite fit and, ready,ready to handle the physicalness of it.
most days the elevation that,that we were covering was between
(16:57):
600 and a thousand metres.
So that's quite a bit of, elevation.
It is.
Yeah.
And we had, because we'd been, readingpeople's blogs and whatever, and
people had been saying, Oh, we'requite fit and we found it really hard.
And we were thinking,oh, we're pretty fit.
We'll be, we're used to, we'vewalked parts of the Bibbulmun
(17:18):
that are pretty, strenuous.
We'll be fine.
And it was actually very, it wasreally physically challenging
more so than what we thought.
And partly due to, it was, soSeptember, it was going into their
autumn And so we were counting onit being around 25 ish degrees.
And it was more like 35 andthere were days where it's 37.
(17:41):
So that was way hotter than, andEurope was just coming off an
extraordinarily hot summer whereit had been over 40 a lot of days.
And people who were walking inthat sort of weather were having
to just not walk, it was too hot.
so they'd have to, they'd have to catch ataxi or get some public transport because
(18:02):
it's just too uncomfortable to walk.
and so fortunately for us it had cooleddown, but it was still, 10 degrees hotter
most days than what we were counting on.
So that takes it out of you as well,especially when you're doing a lot of
elevation and it's very rocky in places.
you need all your wits about you.
(18:23):
So we were glad that we had the levelof fitness that we had, and even now
when we look back we, when we talkabout it we think, oh we can't believe
we got through that day, or that day,because it was just very challenging.
And how did your fitnesschange during the walk?
you get very backpack fit, because, Atthat stage, neither of us had really
walked, we'd just carried day packs whenwe'd been doing any hikes in Australia.
(18:47):
she and I had done the cape to capetogether, but we'd gone back and stayed
at the same accommodation every night.
So we'd only really takena, really a hydration pack.
So to carry a backpack, that's, it'sweight on your back and on your shoulders.
And so You get fit in that way.
You get more of a, probably a bit morestronger because you're carrying a bit
(19:07):
of, not a lot of weight, but because wepack light, but yes, it's just different.
yeah, so you get fitter, along the way.
maybe the first week is hard, but then youget in the routine and you get used to it.
yeah.
And then it becomes yournew normal level of fitness.
It does.
Yeah, yep.
and the thing of, you know, Italked about how, the elevation.
you're walking in parts of France wherethere's, these villages have been there
(19:31):
since the 9th century or whenever, they'rethe old stone, houses and everything.
And so back then, in medieval times,they, they, they You know, they didn't
have mobile phones, so villages waseither built on a very high, the
highest hill they could see, so thatthey could look around and see who
was coming to get them, in which caseyou're hiking along and you've got to
(19:54):
hike up the hill to where your lodgingis for that night, or else the villages
are built way down in a valley wherepeople won't see them to attack them.
it's just constantly.
If you've had to slog up the hillto your hostel for that night,
you get a downhill in the morning.
But if you've come down into the villageat the end of the day, you know you've
got an uphill at the start of the day.
(20:16):
it's this constant, up and down.
but, it all made it part of the fun.
you also need a, an appreciation,and sympathy for another culture.
So you're not in Australia, you'rein a different country so you need to
respect, their ways of doing things.
And one of the biggest, like Josieand I are both morning people,
(20:36):
that first half hour before, sun upis our favourite time of the day.
France.
They will look at you in horror if youwant breakfast any time before 7am.
and in these lodgings, oftenthey're actually people's homes.
So they've just set up a bit of a, adormitory, And you're eating with them.
(20:58):
You eat the evening meal with them.
and they provide the bed for you.
And then you're havingbreakfast with them.
So you've got a fitting.
more to their way of life.
And, something we learnt reallyquickly, like we get up the first
morning and there's a bowl on thetable and we're thinking, oh good,
there's cereal for breakfast.
No, that bowl is for coffee.
(21:19):
So they drink coffee out of a bowlin the morning, but then throughout
the day they drink it from a cup.
don't pour your coffee into, don't,put your cereal in the bowl, there's
a much smaller bowl that's actuallyfor cereal, so I don't know, I
don't know why this is, but it is.
That's something you'vefound out through experience.
(21:40):
We did.
We did.
Yes.
So they'll also look at you in horrorif you do the wrong thing at the table.
yes, you need an open mind and, to be,friendly because, A lot of the places in
France, which was one of its attractionsfor us, is that in the hostels they often
have, like they'll have a dormitory.
They're never very big, like theremight be maybe 15 beds in a dormitory.
(22:05):
And they'll also generally have acouple of double rooms and triple rooms.
So you can, if you want to be a bitmore private, you can, if you're lucky
enough, you can book one of those.
Generally in Spain, becausethat's where there's more of a
convergence of all the Caminos,there's huge dormitories of 60 beds.
(22:27):
so the bottom line is though, even if itis only 15 beds or 10 or whatever, you're
going to be, you might find yourselfsleeping in a room with other people.
you've got to get on with people.
I mean, everyone's different.
there was one time where we, go intothe, I think there was only six of us in
the room, but anyway, this guy, so we'dall had dinner and there was a Canadian
guy who was, lovely, really friendly.
(22:48):
And we get into the room andhe says, I snore really loudly,
would anybody like earplugs?
And he had all these earplugs,and we all laughed politely
and said, no, we'll be fine.
So we all get into bed, and he immediatelystarts snoring like a freight train.
So if someone says they snore,believe them, and if they
offer you earplugs, take them.
So, you know, and snoring's afact of life, but so take your own
(23:12):
earplugs if you're a light sleeper,or, you just have to be prepared
to take what you find, really.
Yeah, just got to be open minded.
and it could be you that'ssnoring, you never know.
you need to work out ahead how far,what you're comfortable in walking
in a day, and plan around that.
like I said, for us, it was around 20km.
(23:32):
there was one day where We did 35, butwe knew, and that was because we couldn't
get accommodation, but we knew that wewould be able to do that 35 because,
the terrain of that day was, not asintense as, some of the other days
and the weather was going to be nice.
yeah, so you just need to be awareof, what realistically you can, what
(23:52):
distance you can cover in a day, and, Ifyou do need to ramp it up, you need to
know that you're capable of doing that.
And also there's that little bit oflooking forwards, knowing what's coming.
Yeah.
and so you just need determinationand resilience because over a period
of five weeks, the weather's notgoing to be perfect every day.
(24:14):
It might rain, it mightbe windy, it might be hot.
And we had all of those.
if you think, as it turned out,we only had one day of, reasonably
heavy rain, but that did bringmud and we all slipped over.
and it's, serious mud too.
you, you just have a, you haveto be determined that you're
going to carry on no matter what.
you can't be folding up and,going home at the first bit of
(24:37):
adversary that comes your way.
Yeah, that's interesting that, mudis a thing unto itself, isn't it?
Especially when you'retrying to move through it.
Even with hiking poles, this mud,some mud is just And you can't
walk around it, it's everywhere.
you try and, yeah, some of the wayBut we were fortunate that we didn't
(24:58):
actually, have too much mud, so
you're not suggesting winter asa great time to do this then?
no.
And the hostels are seasonal too.
so generally they're open, sothis is, the northern hemisphere.
So they're open, reliablyopen April till October.
So probably beginning of Aprilthrough to the end of October.
(25:19):
so through the warmer months.
So a lot of them will actuallybe closed over winter.
people do walk in winter.
but, you have to be mindful ofwhere you might be able to stay.
And there's snow along, certainly,you go across the Albrach Plateau,
and, um, that gets covered in snow.
(25:39):
And if you're a bit, Funny around animals,there's a lot of cows along the way,
and particularly, the Albrach Plateau,you're walking in the paddocks with the
cows, and there's a breed of cow whichI think might be called the Albrach
actually, it's bred specifically forthose conditions, because they, it gets
(26:00):
snow through to, quite hot in summer.
And they're enormous cows.
They weigh about a ton.
but they're extremely docile.
And, they've been therefor hundreds of years.
And so the pilgrims have beenthere for hundreds of years.
So it's a bit of an understanding,but some people, might find that a bit
confronting because sometimes you walkin quite close to these, to the cows.
(26:23):
But luckily they're fairly docile.
They're very docile, yep.
Yep.
And they don't mind you, takingphotos and trying, doing selfies and
they're pretty accommodating, You doneed to be mindful of cowpats though.
I'll bet.
Yeah.
Especially if you've gotone ton cowpat producers.
yeah.
Quite big, yeah.
(26:46):
There anything else for thewhat does it take question?
There is a saying thatthe Camino provides.
So everyone says you know that the Caminoprovides and And there's endless stories
of, people, running into difficultiesand the Camino has provided, and it does,
but it's probably good to, to go intoit with a certain amount of planning,
(27:10):
and the Camino will provide if things dogo pear shaped, but don't expect that.
do your homework and go into it prepared.
Yeah.
But it is nice and, peopledo look out for each other.
we were, we didn't actually see this,but we'd got friendly with this, group
of, there were three German ladies.
So what happens is you meet people,along the way and, you might be
(27:34):
walking further than them that day.
So they're staying somewheredifferent, but then the next day
they walk, they catch you up.
you meet people and then youdon't see them for a few days
and then you run into them again.
Anyway, so these German ladies, andwe'd actually bonded over salty chips
because it was so hot, you're sweatinga lot and so you're just craving
(27:54):
something salty at the end of the day.
So our thing was that we would,find the biggest packet of salty
chips we could find and eat them.
And these German ladies said, oh, wetotally, we drink beer and eat chips
too, we, we know what you're about.
but anyway, one of them unfortunatelyhad tripped and fell and she, smashed her
mouth and she had a crown in her mouth.
(28:17):
And that got broken, but, and we werein front of them that day, so we didn't
know this had happened until the endof the day, but, other pilgrims had,
who spoke French had, come to theiraid and,, someone had, found a car and
they'd got her to a dentist and, sopeople are really helpful that way.
And if I can give anyone a pro tip, ifyou don't speak the language yourself,
(28:42):
as soon as you can, befriend someone whodoes, because they come in really handy.
One night we were going to goout to dinner and we were in this
tiny village and nothing was open.
But, this, guy, Mario, who we gotfriendly with, spoke fluent French
and he cajoled some, a cafe, becausehe could speak the language into they
said they didn't have any reservations,but they, he, because he spoke the
(29:05):
language, he was able to convincethem that they could squeeze us in.
Lucky, got your dinner.
So if you befriend someone thatspeaks the language, then you can
open doors for you along the way.
So.
So that's definitely a pro tip.
Yeah.
Yep.
There's a lot to know about doing theCamino and a lot of that information
seems to be readily available ifyou choose to go and find it and
(29:29):
there's also a pro tip in there.
We'll take a break now and after thebreak we'll have a look at what it means.
We've had a look at what ittakes to walk the Camino.
Now let's have a look at what it means.
(29:50):
Alison, what does it mean to you,your family or the community that
you're able to walk the Camino trail?
So for me it was probablymore of a personal thing.
People walk, and we met people whowere walking for all sorts of reasons.
some of them, had some sort oftraumatic experience and they just
(30:12):
wanted to get away from it all and,walk and think and that sort of thing.
we were more looking for a physicalchallenge, and a, an adventure.
and just a voyage of discoveryreally through, through rural France.
it's so different.
Australia is fascinating and you getout in the bush and you can, you,
(30:34):
you, the history and especially theindigenous culture, it's there, but it's
harder to, you've got to look for it.
In Europe it's visible, there'sa castle on a hill that you
can see for, from a distance.
that kind of, history was interesting andit's the sort of thing where you think,
oh, I wish I'd listened more at school.
(30:56):
it was like a living history.
lesson as well.
yeah, lots of, that sort of thing.
certainly going through France, I didn'trealise, to me skittles, you get a skittle
set when you're three or four and it'slike a plastic . skittles with a ball.
It's huge in France.
we, we came into a village wherethere was a skittle tournament there
(31:18):
was an arena with, tiered seating andscoreboards and, people had come from
other villages, there were teams.
And, it was like ourAFL almost, it was huge.
I thought, oh, didn't know, and Ican't remember whether it was called
Skittles, probably not because itwas French, but that was interesting.
that, just the different sportsand things that they have.
(31:41):
And all along, the way I keptseeing these things that I could
only describe as, and I thought ofthem as tall skinny rabbit hutches.
And I couldn't think what these,I thought, I don't think they
have tall skinny rabbits here.
I couldn't think, and I just kept seeingthese things, and it wasn't until we
were right at the end, I actually saw onethat had, and it had corn husks in it.
(32:03):
What it is because they growa lot of corn, so these are
what they put the corn cobs.
They put them in there for drying.
so they get filled up with thecorn because the corn needs to be
dry and then they use it for feed.
I think they use it forthe stock feed and things.
yeah, so all those.
So
the building, or the structuretakes on that shape of the corn?
(32:25):
if you can imagine a thing that, astructure that's, and it's covered in
like chicken wire, and it might be a metrewide, but it might be say, I don't know,
two metres tall, and it'll be off theground, on a bit of a stand, so it just
looks like a tall skinny rabbit hutch.
But that's what it's for drying corn, justthe different ways they, they do things.
(32:48):
they have a thing in France, possiblyother countries, but it's called the Most
Beautiful Villages and, it's a statusthat people can, a village can sign on to.
and the criteria, the village has to haveless than 2, 000 people and it has to
have at least two sites that are, Theirheritage recognised as, heritage listed.
(33:12):
and they have to be, untouched by modernThere won't be any modern buildings.
There won't be a, a HungryJacks or a something.
That they've retained their originality.
So the village is thousands of yearsold and it's maintained as that.
It's not, when you're walking alongthe Via Podiensis, you actually go
through a number of these villages.
(33:35):
they're beautiful to look at, theseold stone buildings and it's actually
amazing that they've managed to.
retrofit them with electricityand Wi Fi and, but they still
look the same from the outside,
That's interesting that there'sactually some sort of deterrent
for those towns to actually put upnew architectural type buildings.
(33:58):
Yes, so when you walk through a numberof these small villages like that and
it's a real assault on your senses wecame to a town called Ka'oor, which
is about, probably about halfway andit was, it's probably got about 15,
000 people, I think, but there wastraffic lights and there were shops and
we just thought, get us out of here.
(34:19):
it was too much because you get so used tothe solitude and the, peacefulness and the
rhythm of just walking and the quietness.
yeah, it's quite different.
It's quite underrated, isn'tit, that, having that ability
to be somewhere quiet and
Absolutely, yes.
I'll say in nature, although thisis not always directly in nature,
(34:40):
but certainly you're going throughsome pretty natural environments.
Yes, and you do have plentyof time to contemplate.
We didn't set out to particularly, do anysort of deep and meaningful introspection,
but you just do as a naturalconsequence of doing this, this walking.
And for me, it definitely taught me tolive more simply because, you've just
(35:04):
got your backpack, and you just put it onat the start of the day and off you go.
And it's that rhythm And I certainlythought, why have I got a house
full of stuff at home when I'mliving quite comfortably with
what I'm carrying on my back?
So when we did get home, I went throughthe house and I had a big clean out.
(35:25):
and now, I probably need to do itagain, but, yes, it certainly teaches
you, or renews what you might'vealready known, confirms what you
might've already known that we, we docarry around too much stuff, really.
Lots of baggage.
Yes, yep.
So let things go, yeah.
Try and keep things simple.
(35:47):
That sounds, yeah, almostcathartic in some ways.
Not what you were there for, butclearly there were others who, you
said, had been through stuff thatthey wanted to actually Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Take that time out.
Yes.
and I realized myself that yeah, there's,just as a natural consequence of doing
this, that, yeah, you can, clear outyour mind whether you intended to or not.
(36:09):
you end up doing it.
yeah.
And it's, I can recommend doing that.
. Any, anybody you know, every now and then.
Absolutely.
You can easily be filled upwith all the things that go on.
You look at, especially if you've gota TV going or something like that.
There's just stuff constantly beingtipped in and it's all programmed
(36:29):
to get you to do something.
I don't think the human brain was meantto, cope with as much stuff, information
that gets thrown at us all today.
it's good to try and be still every nowand then and, be with your own thoughts.
It has meaning for the Frenchcommunity because, it keeps
(36:50):
these little communities going.
yeah.
Gives them some purpose.
Yeah.
And, their economy and their, Their life.
It enables them to stay in the, becausewithout the Camino going through, those
communities would probably just die.
there are already plenty of communitiesyou hear about, through parts of
(37:10):
Europe, particularly the more remoteparts, I think, where, you can pick up
houses because there's nobody there.
Even in Tasmania a few years ago,Zeehan and parts down that west
coast, they couldn't give houses away.
because their mining or whateverwas there was finished and sometimes
(37:30):
without that, communities do die.
There's no reason forpeople to be there anymore.
yeah.
We've seen quite a lot of differentmeaning in walking the Camino Trail.
We'll have a break now, and after thebreak, we'll look at how you do it.
(37:53):
We've had a look at what itmeans to walk the Camino.
Now, we'll have a look at how you do it.
Alison, if someone was going totake this on, what would be a
good way for them to approach it?
Okay, so start out and, read, watch,certainly, watching a movie or reading
(38:14):
a novel can give you, if that's, ifyou're that way inclined, that can
give you a good, bit of background.
But also there's documentaries, there'sFacebook groups, there's guidebooks.
I would say find out asmuch about it as you can.
speak to someone who's actually doneit, who's got, first hand experience.
gather as much, generalinformation as you can.
(38:37):
And obviously you're going to need,you need an airfare and a passport, so
make sure you've got those organised.
make sure you've got good travelinsurance because the, the path
can be, quite treacherous inplaces, I did mention someone had
a, an unfortunate, they fell over.
(38:58):
various things can happen, andthe best travel insurance is
not always the cheapest thatyou can find off the internet.
Travel insurance pays off when you needto claim, so you need to know that this
company is actually going to pay you.
Come to the party when you make a claim.
good travel insurance.
you need to be determinedbecause as I mentioned, we
had COVID interrupt our plans.
(39:19):
you want to be able tofollow things through.
When you're going to another country,if you don't speak the language, at
least know the basics, know how to sayplease and thank you, hello and goodbye.
because that means a lot to the locals,if they can see you making an effort,
they will help you out, learn the basicsof the language and also mentioned
(39:40):
befriend someone who is fluent in thelanguage if you can, that helps too.
With your accommodation, you'regoing to be, staying in hostels, and
they're often someone's, family home.
You'll have an evening meal, you'llhave a bed and you'll have breakfast.
So book at least, a day aheadsimply because they are going
(40:02):
to be cooking a meal for you.
So it's a courtesy that they know how manypeople they're going to be cooking for.
We booked about a day ahead eachtime or sometimes might have
booked a couple of days ahead.
cause you want to try and beflexible, as much as you can.
we wanted to be flexible.
don't want to think, oh, we have toget to such and such today because
there might be something reallyinteresting along the way that you
(40:25):
stop and look at for an hour or two.
So then you might want to think, oh,we won't go quite as far today because
we've been having a really good timeand we've stopped and looked at things.
And if you've got a booking, then,oh, the pressure's on to get there.
So try and be flexible, but you doneed to let your hosts know, so that
they can prepare for you properly.
(40:45):
How do you communicate with those hosts?
So when you don't speak the language,we had an email that we'd composed,
in French, that basically said, there,because my husband Frank was, he
joined us for some of the way as well.
So we said, hello,we're three Australians.
We're walking, the Camino.
Do you have a room for threeon such and such a date?
(41:06):
So we had that translated into French.
So we would just send that off.
So in the guidebooks and apps and variousthings, we had lists of accommodation
that was available in various towns.
So we would just fire off thisemail and whoever came back.
Someone would come back or three of themwould come back, so you just, choose
(41:27):
the one that you want and then justlet the others know that you're fine.
Or the other thing that they dois they use WhatsApp, which is an
app on your phone that's text.
We would have a text ready in French.
Google Translate is yourfriend, it works really well.
So generally, they communicate byeither of those, or phone calls, but
(41:48):
we couldn't do phone calls because, we
The language barrier.
yeah.
but it's, yeah, text based, and anothersort of a quirk I suppose of the French,
and out in these rural areas, theydon't take credit cards, generally.
They take cash, butthey will take cheques.
No one has a checkbook in Australiaanymore, but, yes, in France they do.
(42:11):
but, when you're, from Australiaor America, carry a bit of cash,
and, because you're in such smallvillages, there won't be an ATM.
When you're at a larger place wherethere is an ATM, get some cash so that
you've got enough cash for the nextfew days, because you don't want to
be, caught without any means to pay.
(42:32):
There are luggage transfer services.
if people do want to, we encounteredpeople that needed medication that, and,
they're going to be walking for a month.
they've got a lot of it.
it's too heavy, or they might havebeen travelling on afterwards, after
the Camino, so they'd have suitcases.
So there's various luggagetransfer services who will it's
(42:53):
usually about 10 euro, I think.
they'll transfer yourluggage from place to place.
We didn't chose to do that becausethat also cuts into your flexibility.
Because if your luggage is going to besomewhere then you need to be that place.
You need to get there.
You need to be there as well.
there's a rule of thumb thatyour backpack should weigh about
10 percent of your body weight.
(43:15):
I think ours weighed about five tosix kilos, and it was very liberating
to just travel with not much stuff.
You're walking for a number ofweeks, the weather could be, get a
variety of weather, so our criteriafor packing was does it scrunch up
really small, does it weigh next tonothing, and does it dry in no time.
(43:35):
If it didn't meet any ofthose, then it didn't go in.
With clothes, there's one inyour pack and one on your back.
You can't be thinking, oh, butI might go out to dinner, or I
might do this, or I might do that.
Be firm with yourself.
We wore trail shoes and toe socks, whichI swear by, but everyone's different.
(43:55):
and so you need a pair of lightweight,something like Crocs or sandals
because you do want to take yourshoes off at the end of the day.
But you've still got a few hours,where you're having dinner and whatnot.
So you put your sandals on or, yourlightweight shoes as to give your
feet a break from your walking shoes.
The French, and I've only encounteredthis in France, but they've got
(44:17):
a real thing about bed bugs.
We never got bed bugs, but they likeyou to bring a, silk, you can buy them
anywhere, silk, sleeping bag liner orsleeping sack, and they don't let you
take your backpacks or your shoes or yourhiking poles into the, sleeping room.
(44:38):
You arrive And you show in this roomand you put your backpack, your shoes
and your poles, you leave all thatthere and you just take out your,
toiletries and whatever you need andthat's what you take to the room.
Have those things separate sothat you can easily just pull them
out of your pack and take them,
that's something that youwouldn't naturally think about.
(45:00):
No.
No.
So that's certainly a thing in France.
and it's good to actually have all yourgear in, inside your pack, and your pack
needs to have a waterproof cover, butinside your pack it's good to have things
in waterproof, little, bags as well.
Two layers of waterproofingis better than one.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
(45:20):
there is nothing worse than, youonly have to get all your gear wet
once, and it, you don't do it again,you don't let it happen again.
Make sure before, before you leavehome, if you haven't walked with
a backpack before, make sure thatyour backpack suits you, that you've
got a backpack that's comfortable.
When you go and buy a backpack,the places will fit them.
(45:43):
They'll make sure that it fits, becausethere's backpacks for men and women
because, they're a different shape.
And then there's also, if you're shorteror taller or there's backpacks that suit
different body shapes, so make sure thatyour backpack fits because there will
be nothing worse than, you know, chafingstraps and things on your backpack.
(46:06):
Yeah, imagine anything that rubswill cause problems very quickly.
And of course, because you'regoing the next day as well,
It's day after day, so you want to bephysically comfortable so make sure that
you have all those issues sorted out andsee what works for you before you go.
and that's why I'm saying if youhaven't already done any of that sort
of hiking or you're not particularlyfit, a good six months out, start
(46:32):
getting those things sorted out.
Because you just don't wantany issues once you get there.
You're a long way from home.
So you need to be goingon practice walks and
Absolutely.
Yep.
and put some weight, whateverweight you think you're going to be
carrying, put that in your backpack.
You can start out with your backpackempty, if you haven't done any that sort
(46:53):
of walking before, but then gradually putweight into it, so that what you're doing.
Hiking poles, They're very common inEurope, but not so much in Australia,
but, they are excellent and I find,especially when you've got a backpack,
because it throws your weight out abit, so if you've got poles it just
helps you to balance better, but they'rejust good for, if the terrain is rough
(47:16):
you can use them to lean on, but Ijust find it much more comfortable
walking with poles day after day.
I liken it to four wheel driving.
you've got four points onthe ground instead of two.
I'm sure it's better.
I don't know all the, physiological,mechanical sort of reasons for
it, but I find it much more.
(47:36):
you can feel it.
You can, and so the proof is atthe end of the day, you're you feel
like you could do it all again.
something's working.
And guess what?
Tomorrow.
You're going to be doing it again.
You need to take some sort ofbasic first aid, don't think
nothing's going to happen.
Things like, just simple things,band aids and maybe a compression
(47:58):
bandage or something and also knowthe, emergency numbers are for the
country that you're in, because it'snot always, it's triple zero here, but
It's not necessarily the same there.
Ignorance is not bliss whenyou're a long way from home.
yeah.
And sunscreen, especially, if it's summer.
A hat.
(48:18):
You will, like a sim or an e sim for yourphone so that you've got communication
because, and generally, I can't rememberwhat brand of, sim we had, but it worked.
And when you're doing all your homework.
People will say, oh, thissim worked everywhere.
sometimes they won't work in some areas,but you'll find one that will work, so
(48:41):
that you've got coverage everywhere.
and this in The Via Podiensisis particularly well marked.
It's a red stripe at thetop and a white stripe.
So it's a red and a white stripe.
And it's actually called the GR65.
And it's marked everywhere.
You know, if there's no, if there's not atree or a fence post, it'll be on a rock.
(49:04):
it's really well marked.
You actually don't need to carryany sort of, map with you because
the way is so well marked.
The only thing you've got to watchis when you're going through villages
because you can be getting talking andwhatever and You can actually lose your
way even though it's a small village.
Sometimes you can think, oh, wheredid we last see a marker and you
(49:25):
might have to go back and, so justthrough villages, you've just got to
be like a slightly bigger village wherethere's more than a couple of streets.
You can bamboozle yourself.
But one of the best things is you canhave guilt free carbs because you need
carbs, because you're walking every day.
And, France is likethe, King of the carbs.
(49:46):
who doesn't like a French bakery?
In a lot of the hostels, this van wouldpull up in the morning and deposit a
few sacks of baguettes, fresh baguettes.
And so you can lay intoone of those at breakfast.
'cause you're gonna walkit all off during the day.
And, I am rather fond of cheese.
What's, cheese and breadfor lunch is, quite nice.
(50:08):
And and then whatever mealthey're cooking for you.
And because, you're, you geta feel for the regions because
they, you'll, eat whatever is,you know, you'll get the region.
When we started in La Puy, some peoplemight be familiar with the Puy Lentil.
and so that's a lentil growing area.
So around there, the meals are basedaround lentils and then, there's
(50:30):
different specialties and the hostwill be proud to say, this is our
regional, this is what we do here.
and there's a thing called, oh, Ijust can't remember, Aligoo, it's
essentially mashed potato and cheese.
but it's delicious when they, it'sthe way you cook it that brings these
simple ingredients To another level.
you get that in a few places, but youcan eat it guilt free because you're
(50:54):
walking the next day and away you go.
I did find that, certainly, probably inthe first 600, 500 to 600 Ks, you don't
actually need to carry a lot of water.
because there are a lot of, drinking tapsand troughs probably from when they used
to, water the horses, that sort of thing.
So there's a lot of fresh water and even,and this was summer and it was hot, but,
(51:18):
and it will say if you can't drink it,but mostly, there was water available.
You could fill your bottle.
so that, that was good, but do beprepared, your backpack will probably
come with a bladder, but you can, soyou can choose whether you're going to
do that or carry drink bottles, but,you don't need to carry a lot of water
really because it's readily available.
(51:39):
, Anyone that's done anyhiking knows water's heavy.
Yeah, so to pick it up at frequentlocations along the course is a lot.
Just means you're not having to carryso much at the start of the day.
Yeah.
Thank you very much, Alison, forbeing a guest on Forrest.Chat podcast.
listeners of Forrest.Chat podcast wish youall the best with your future endeavors.
(52:01):
I should ask, what is your next thing?
the world's a big place, Paul,there's a lot of walks that
I want to do in Australia.
There, there are actually, so theCamino started in Europe and it's a,
it's, that thousands, been going forthousands of years, but there's other
walks now that are called Caminos.
(52:21):
There's one in Japan,which rather appeals.
There's actually a Caminoin Western Australia, which
is being developed really.
that starts in Perthand goes to New Norcia.
that's called the Camino Salvado.
and that, apart from that, there'sjust so many walks and so little time.
we'll see how we go.
(52:42):
Yes.
And you have life all aroundthat, but, the walks join
it all together, don't they?
That's
right.
Yep.
. And would you recommend the Camino?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
and whether it's the Camino Salvado,whether it's, the, Way of St.
James in France, if you get the chanceto do it, I highly recommend it.
so many benefits for you.
(53:03):
Yeah.
It does sound that way.
Yeah.
Thank you very much, Alison.
You've been listening to Forrest.Chat,where we talk about individual
endeavour in Western Australia.
What it takes, what itmeans, and how you do it.
In today's episode we talked with AlisonKidman about walking the Camino Trail.
Remember, there are four ways toget involved with Forrest.Chat.
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Until then, enjoy making it happen.
Welcome to Forrest.Chat.
Where we talk about individualendeavour in Western Australia.
What it takes, what itmeans, and how you do it.
I'm your host, Paul van der Mey,and today we're talking with Alison
Kidman about walking the Camino Trail.
Alison has known about theCamino Trail for many years.
(00:27):
But she never thought thatshe was able to achieve that.
Later in life, shedecided to run a marathon.
Doing the marathon gave Alison themotivation and the drive and the
belief that she was able to takeon something like the Camino Trail.
And she has.
(00:49):
Welcome to Forrest.Chat, Alison.
Thank you, Paul.
Thanks for inviting me.
I've been really enjoying andbeing inspired by and intrigued
by and interested in, all theother, episodes of your podcast.
So I hope that people, feelsimilarly from, my story.
Oh, thank you very much.
I'm sure they will, Alison.
(01:10):
The broad range of storieswe bring to Forrest.Chat is
an element of that, interest.
And, yes, thank you for yoursupport of the podcast as well.
Alison, we're talkingabout the Camino Trail.
What on earth is the Camino Trail?
Okay, I can give you a quick and dirtyhistory and don't quote me on any of
(01:32):
this, but, Camino is Spanish for theway or the path, so it's really a path.
And Santiago translates to St.
James.
So iago is James in Spanish.
So it's the way of St.
James.
And St.
James was an apostle back in the day.
(01:53):
And, the apostles were sent out, I thinkfrom Jerusalem to, spread the word of God.
So St.
James went to what is nowGalicia in northwestern Spain.
And, anyway, he came back and saidto the king at the time, Look, I've
been a bit of a failure, I haven'treally, converted many people.
(02:14):
So the king promptly beheaded him.
And, so some of James's disciples tookhis body back to Galicia and buried him.
And that was the end of that.
They knew where his body was, theydied and so nobody knew where he was.
And then some, centuries later.
(02:35):
Somebody found some bones in a field andwent to the local bishop and said, we
think, I think this is the body of St.
James.
And the bishop agreed.
So he built a church which wascalled, Santiago The Cathedral
of Santiago de Compostela.
Compostela meaning field of starsbecause it was this field under the
(02:59):
stars where the bones were found.
And, so then people started makingpilgrimages to, pay their respects to St.
James.
They might have had someailments that they were hoping.
would be fixed by, makinga pilgrimage there.
And it grew from there.
So we're talking about,somewhere around the 9th century.
So this is many thousands of yearsthe Camino has been there for.
(03:21):
So people were just leaving theirhomes in Europe, wherever they were
in Europe, and making a pilgrimageto, Santiago de Compostela.
And, so then.
Because, so many people were hikingthrough, making a Camino, services
started popping up along the way.
So people would offer food, they'doffer lodgings, there's various
(03:45):
monasteries through Europe, so theywould be, offering, shelter and
things for pilgrims along the way.
And then it got to, so people would,make a pilgrimage and then go back home.
And how did, people know they weren'tjust saying they did it and just going
around the block and coming home?
So they, the scallop shell became thesymbol for the Camino because, Santiago
(04:10):
de Compostela is probably about 50 k'sfrom the coast of Galicia, but scallop
shells proliferate along that coast.
So the thing that they would dowas take a scallop shell back.
To say, yes, I did actually go.
So this is Strava before computers.
Before Strava, yes.
(04:31):
so that became the symbol of theCamino and today, lodgings will
have a scallop shell embedded abovethe doorway to show that they are,
and there's, you're still called apilgrim if you walk the Camino today.
Yes, there's scallop shells at, various,pilgrim hostels and that sort of thing.
And a lot of villages along the waywill have, they'll mark the way,
(04:53):
with scallop shells in and out of thevillage, and all that sort of thing.
So there's some really nicetraditions that have, built up
over these thousands of years.
And another one is that you have apilgrim passport, and you, so you get a
stamp in your passport and you, all theway until you get to your destination.
The cathedral and you canget a certificate then to
(05:13):
show that you've walked,
You've actually followed the path.
Yes.
And, the, so the passports all alsohave the thing of, so you know, now
there's, like about 350,000 peoplearrive at the cathedral every year.
That's a lot.
And that's a lot.
And possibly more since, Covid,So there's a lot of, throughout
Europe there's a lot of lodgingsand hostels and that sort of thing.
(05:37):
and they're for pilgrims.
They're not for just, Joe Blow who'sdecided to backpack, for a few weeks.
So having your pilgrim passport is away to show that yes, I'm a genuine,
I'm walking towards the cathedral.
I haven't just slung a backpackon because I'm, I've got a uni
break or something, I'm actuallywalking towards the cathedral.
(05:58):
So yeah, there's that about it.
And so it's just, it's, you get a senseof history because it is something
that's been around for so long.
So very interesting.
And lots of people areactually walking it.
They are.
Very interesting.
Yep.
And how long is the trail?
Where does it start and finish?
(06:19):
Oh,
okay.
So when I first heard about it, I'dheard that this, Camino in Spain.
So I thought that was, Ithought there was the Camino.
which there certainly is one inSpain, which is about 750 kilometers.
And it starts at a little villageon the France and Spanish border
called Saint Jean Pierre duPort and goes through Spain.
(06:43):
over the Pyrenees and finishesat, Santiago de Compostela.
But then I found out that there'sactually lots of trails because
they come all through Europe.
And there's, so there's, and onethat, so I'll walk this with my sister
Josie and one of her, and when we weretalking about it, one of her friends
had said, Oh, there's other trails.
(07:05):
The Camino is not just this one throughSpain, and no, we didn't know that.
and anyway, she had actually, theyhad actually walked through France,
which that one is called the ViaPodiensis, which starts in a place
called Le Puy en Velay, which isin the south, southeast of France.
(07:26):
and you, so that's also 750 kilometres,but you're walking in France and
you're starting in the east and youwalk west and you finish at Saint Jean
Pierre du Port where the other one.
So a lot of people will start in Franceand carry on and go right through
to Spain and do 1500 kilometers.
Oh wow, so it's like the end to end.
(07:46):
Yes.
They're not meeting at the end point.
Okay.
So we had decided that we would finishat Saint Jean Pierre du Port, but
when we were actually getting, towardsthe finish, we actually really wished
that we had planned to go right tothe cathedral, because, some of the
other people that we were, , meetingalong the way were going right ahead.
(08:07):
So when we came back, I thought I'vereally got, unfinished business.
And, so my husband and I actuallywent, a couple of, few months ago.
so there's another onethat comes from Portugal.
So that's called the Camino Portuguese,and that's 600 kilometres, and you
can walk from Lisbon up to, Santiago.
But we started in Porto.
(08:29):
So we did about 270 kilometres, butit did give me the experience of
actually finishing at the cathedral,which is, it takes your breath away.
You come, up the street and there's aplaza and the cathedral opens up in front
of you and you just, have this sensationthat you're doing this thing that people
have been doing for thousands of years.
(08:50):
And even though I'm not Catholic, Idon't have any affinity, it's just.
The, the knowing that so many peoplehave done this before you, and you're
a dot in the universe, really, yeah.
Wow.
Okay, so that'll be somethingto talk about when we ask about
the meaning of what you've done.
Yeah.
So it's very interesting.
(09:10):
And the trail, is it,what sort of trail is it?
It's trail.
it's apart from when you go throughvillages, and it goes through, you're
going through, it's very rural, France.
So if you imagine, if people arefamiliar with Western Australia, it's
kind of like, you know, you're walkingaround in Dumbleyung, Lake Grace.
(09:32):
There's tiny, except the villagesare much, there's villages, every
five k's or something you can see.
And if you're not walking througha village, you can see one over on
a hill, but they're tiny villages.
there's paved roads in and outof the villages, but, most of the
time you're walking, there's alot of in and out of river gorges.
(09:57):
You're following the Lott River forquite a way, and you so you'll come
up the top of the, the gorge andthen you'll, and you just know that
you're going to go back down again.
And then you just know that you'regoing to come back up again.
You've got plenty of distance to do that.
Yes.
and it's, so it's, and you'regoing across paddocks and through,
and very rocky, very hilly.
(10:20):
extraordinarily scenic, beautiful.
Yeah.
it really is a, walk across thecountryside to get to where you're going.
Yes.
and because this is, so it's rural Franceand, they actually really embrace the
Camino because we just know in Australiathat people have gradually been migrating
to the coast that that some of theselittle country towns really struggle.
(10:43):
Because, they've lost their bank, they'velost their post office, they've, all the
kids have gone off and not come back.
so it's similar in France, in,in these rural parts of France.
So the Camino for them is, it bringspeople coming through and it's become
their, in some ways their lifeblood,it just keeps people coming through.
(11:05):
you're welcome, they welcome you.
Really good to hear that.
Yeah.
they do embrace it and in a way thatyou're walking and, you'll come across,
you might be walking along the backof someone's paddock and there'll
be a tree and there'll be a benchunder the tree and a sign saying,
pilgrims, sit down, have a rest.
so they'll, they do things likethis or there might be a, a table
(11:28):
with a flask of tea and a flask ofcoffee and a little container of
cakes that might be a specialty ofthe region and just a donation box.
pilgrims,
Have a cuppa, have apiece of cake or whatever.
Yeah, and you just see this all along andit's just amazing, yeah, how they have it.
Yeah, it's a, it's an ongoing event.
(11:50):
It is, yeah.
and just the way they embrace it andjust, and it's just another thing
that this is, it's, been going forso long, so many thousands of years
that, you're part of a tradition, yeah.
Yeah.
And how long does it taketo actually walk there?
So we set out, we, we thought wewould do, average about 20 k's a day.
(12:13):
And it kind of varied aroundthat because things come in
like, can you get accommodation?
you're not going to get accommodationneatly every 20 kilometers.
And, but that was probably our average.
Some days we might have walked 28,some days we might have done 18.
But it took us, so it was five weeks
(12:34):
Five weeks walking every day.
Yes, yep.
So what are you talking, 35 days of?
Yes, about 35, yeah, And we had aflight, to catch at the end of it.
So we, we did have to, Make sure we,
hit all your stops.
We, yeah, if we didn't we had to makeit, we might have had to make it up, walk
(12:55):
extra or, didn't actually come to thatbut yeah, it was fine but yeah, so that's,
how long we took, 35, around 35, 5 weeks.
And is there lots of informationto help you plan that out?
There is lots, so a lot of peoplemight be familiar with a movie called
The Way, which stars, Martin Sheen.
(13:17):
his son sets out to do the Caminoand dies, so Martin Sheen goes
over there and in his, whateverhis character is, I can't remember.
and walks it on behalf of his son.
It's quite a good movie, popsup on SBS every now and then.
there's novels being written aboutit, there's documentaries, there's,
blogs, there's Facebook groups,there's, printed guidebooks, maps.
(13:37):
So there's actually a lot of informationyou can it's not hard to do a lot of
homework if you're thinking of doing it,
You look around enough andyou'll have more than enough
information to do your planning to
You will probably have too much, yeah.
Too much?
Too much, yeah.
That kind of happened to us.
So what happened to us, we were planningto do it in May of 2020 and, We booked
(14:03):
our flights at the end of January in 2020.
And I'm sure we all remember whathappened between January and May in 2020.
COVID came along and the world as weknew it basically turned upside down.
so we, we were determined that wewere still going to do this Camino.
(14:24):
We didn't know how long wewere going to have to wait.
and as it turned out, so wedidn't get our flights refunded.
We just had them, held for us.
We had faith that, things would pickup and that the airline was going to
come back and, we'd be able to do it.
And so as it turned out, wedid it in, September 2022.
So a couple of years later.
(14:45):
Yeah, about two and a half years.
But what had happened was because, Ihad done so much reading and everything.
in preparation for May 2020.
When it came to 2022, we just thoughtlet's, and we'd had this experience
of COVID where stuff can happen, youjust don't know what's going to happen.
we certainly had knowledge ofit because we had done this
(15:07):
preparation, but we thought we'rejust going to go and do it this time.
we're not going to, we didn't.
book too much in advance.
We wanted to be as flexible as we could.
But we had, I would recommendhaving good knowledge first.
But yes, you can have informationoverload and you'll just confuse
yourself and, it gets too much.
(15:30):
It's a lot to hold in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Alison, what does it take you todo a walk like the Camino Trail?
so you need to be fit.
If you, we encountered lots of peoplewho weren't particularly fit and, they,
I think you'll just have a more enjoyableexperience if you're fit, and you know
(15:53):
your body and you know the type of gearthat suits you, they'll, people get.
people get appalling blisters.
And, we always come across peoplewhere there, there might be a stream
or wherever there was a bit of water,there'd be someone with their boots off
with their feet in the water because,
they needed some relief,
(16:14):
they just, they were so uncomfortable.
you just got, you're justgoing to enjoy it much more if
you have a level of fitness.
Especially if you're going to do, likea five, four, five, six weeks or longer.
you'll find that a lot of Frenchpeople just dip in and out in the same
way that we might do the Bibbulmunbecause it's there and we're here.
(16:35):
We're close to it.
they can do two weeks, in theirannual holidays or whatever.
But if you're coming from further awayand you're going to do the whole thing
because that's your one go at it.
you need to be quite fit and, ready,ready to handle the physicalness of it.
most days the elevation that,that we were covering was between
(16:57):
600 and a thousand metres.
So that's quite a bit of, elevation.
It is.
Yeah.
And we had, because we'd been, readingpeople's blogs and whatever, and
people had been saying, Oh, we'requite fit and we found it really hard.
And we were thinking,oh, we're pretty fit.
We'll be, we're used to, we'vewalked parts of the Bibbulmun
(17:18):
that are pretty, strenuous.
We'll be fine.
And it was actually very, it wasreally physically challenging
more so than what we thought.
And partly due to, it was, soSeptember, it was going into their
autumn And so we were counting onit being around 25 ish degrees.
And it was more like 35 andthere were days where it's 37.
(17:41):
So that was way hotter than, andEurope was just coming off an
extraordinarily hot summer whereit had been over 40 a lot of days.
And people who were walking inthat sort of weather were having
to just not walk, it was too hot.
so they'd have to, they'd have to catch ataxi or get some public transport because
(18:02):
it's just too uncomfortable to walk.
and so fortunately for us it had cooleddown, but it was still, 10 degrees hotter
most days than what we were counting on.
So that takes it out of you as well,especially when you're doing a lot of
elevation and it's very rocky in places.
you need all your wits about you.
(18:23):
So we were glad that we had the levelof fitness that we had, and even now
when we look back we, when we talkabout it we think, oh we can't believe
we got through that day, or that day,because it was just very challenging.
And how did your fitnesschange during the walk?
you get very backpack fit, because, Atthat stage, neither of us had really
walked, we'd just carried day packs whenwe'd been doing any hikes in Australia.
(18:47):
she and I had done the cape to capetogether, but we'd gone back and stayed
at the same accommodation every night.
So we'd only really takena, really a hydration pack.
So to carry a backpack, that's, it'sweight on your back and on your shoulders.
And so You get fit in that way.
You get more of a, probably a bit morestronger because you're carrying a bit
(19:07):
of, not a lot of weight, but because wepack light, but yes, it's just different.
yeah, so you get fitter, along the way.
maybe the first week is hard, but then youget in the routine and you get used to it.
yeah.
And then it becomes yournew normal level of fitness.
It does.
Yeah, yep.
and the thing of, you know, Italked about how, the elevation.
you're walking in parts of France wherethere's, these villages have been there
(19:31):
since the 9th century or whenever, they'rethe old stone, houses and everything.
And so back then, in medieval times,they, they, they You know, they didn't
have mobile phones, so villages waseither built on a very high, the
highest hill they could see, so thatthey could look around and see who
was coming to get them, in which caseyou're hiking along and you've got to
(19:54):
hike up the hill to where your lodgingis for that night, or else the villages
are built way down in a valley wherepeople won't see them to attack them.
it's just constantly.
If you've had to slog up the hillto your hostel for that night,
you get a downhill in the morning.
But if you've come down into the villageat the end of the day, you know you've
got an uphill at the start of the day.
(20:16):
it's this constant, up and down.
but, it all made it part of the fun.
you also need a, an appreciation,and sympathy for another culture.
So you're not in Australia, you'rein a different country so you need to
respect, their ways of doing things.
And one of the biggest, like Josieand I are both morning people,
(20:36):
that first half hour before, sun upis our favourite time of the day.
France.
They will look at you in horror if youwant breakfast any time before 7am.
and in these lodgings, oftenthey're actually people's homes.
So they've just set up a bit of a, adormitory, And you're eating with them.
(20:58):
You eat the evening meal with them.
and they provide the bed for you.
And then you're havingbreakfast with them.
So you've got a fitting.
more to their way of life.
And, something we learnt reallyquickly, like we get up the first
morning and there's a bowl on thetable and we're thinking, oh good,
there's cereal for breakfast.
No, that bowl is for coffee.
(21:19):
So they drink coffee out of a bowlin the morning, but then throughout
the day they drink it from a cup.
don't pour your coffee into, don't,put your cereal in the bowl, there's
a much smaller bowl that's actuallyfor cereal, so I don't know, I
don't know why this is, but it is.
That's something you'vefound out through experience.
(21:40):
We did.
We did.
Yes.
So they'll also look at you in horrorif you do the wrong thing at the table.
yes, you need an open mind and, to be,friendly because, A lot of the places in
France, which was one of its attractionsfor us, is that in the hostels they often
have, like they'll have a dormitory.
They're never very big, like theremight be maybe 15 beds in a dormitory.
(22:05):
And they'll also generally have acouple of double rooms and triple rooms.
So you can, if you want to be a bitmore private, you can, if you're lucky
enough, you can book one of those.
Generally in Spain, becausethat's where there's more of a
convergence of all the Caminos,there's huge dormitories of 60 beds.
(22:27):
so the bottom line is though, even if itis only 15 beds or 10 or whatever, you're
going to be, you might find yourselfsleeping in a room with other people.
you've got to get on with people.
I mean, everyone's different.
there was one time where we, go intothe, I think there was only six of us in
the room, but anyway, this guy, so we'dall had dinner and there was a Canadian
guy who was, lovely, really friendly.
(22:48):
And we get into the room andhe says, I snore really loudly,
would anybody like earplugs?
And he had all these earplugs,and we all laughed politely
and said, no, we'll be fine.
So we all get into bed, and he immediatelystarts snoring like a freight train.
So if someone says they snore,believe them, and if they
offer you earplugs, take them.
So, you know, and snoring's afact of life, but so take your own
(23:12):
earplugs if you're a light sleeper,or, you just have to be prepared
to take what you find, really.
Yeah, just got to be open minded.
and it could be you that'ssnoring, you never know.
you need to work out ahead how far,what you're comfortable in walking
in a day, and plan around that.
like I said, for us, it was around 20km.
(23:32):
there was one day where We did 35, butwe knew, and that was because we couldn't
get accommodation, but we knew that wewould be able to do that 35 because,
the terrain of that day was, not asintense as, some of the other days
and the weather was going to be nice.
yeah, so you just need to be awareof, what realistically you can, what
(23:52):
distance you can cover in a day, and, Ifyou do need to ramp it up, you need to
know that you're capable of doing that.
And also there's that little bit oflooking forwards, knowing what's coming.
Yeah.
and so you just need determinationand resilience because over a period
of five weeks, the weather's notgoing to be perfect every day.
(24:14):
It might rain, it mightbe windy, it might be hot.
And we had all of those.
if you think, as it turned out,we only had one day of, reasonably
heavy rain, but that did bringmud and we all slipped over.
and it's, serious mud too.
you, you just have a, you haveto be determined that you're
going to carry on no matter what.
you can't be folding up and,going home at the first bit of
(24:37):
adversary that comes your way.
Yeah, that's interesting that, mudis a thing unto itself, isn't it?
Especially when you'retrying to move through it.
Even with hiking poles, this mud,some mud is just And you can't
walk around it, it's everywhere.
you try and, yeah, some of the wayBut we were fortunate that we didn't
(24:58):
actually, have too much mud, so
you're not suggesting winter asa great time to do this then?
no.
And the hostels are seasonal too.
so generally they're open, sothis is, the northern hemisphere.
So they're open, reliablyopen April till October.
So probably beginning of Aprilthrough to the end of October.
(25:19):
so through the warmer months.
So a lot of them will actuallybe closed over winter.
people do walk in winter.
but, you have to be mindful ofwhere you might be able to stay.
And there's snow along, certainly,you go across the Albrach Plateau,
and, um, that gets covered in snow.
(25:39):
And if you're a bit, Funny around animals,there's a lot of cows along the way,
and particularly, the Albrach Plateau,you're walking in the paddocks with the
cows, and there's a breed of cow whichI think might be called the Albrach
actually, it's bred specifically forthose conditions, because they, it gets
(26:00):
snow through to, quite hot in summer.
And they're enormous cows.
They weigh about a ton.
but they're extremely docile.
And, they've been therefor hundreds of years.
And so the pilgrims have beenthere for hundreds of years.
So it's a bit of an understanding,but some people, might find that a bit
confronting because sometimes you walkin quite close to these, to the cows.
(26:23):
But luckily they're fairly docile.
They're very docile, yep.
Yep.
And they don't mind you, takingphotos and trying, doing selfies and
they're pretty accommodating, You doneed to be mindful of cowpats though.
I'll bet.
Yeah.
Especially if you've gotone ton cowpat producers.
yeah.
Quite big, yeah.
(26:46):
There anything else for thewhat does it take question?
There is a saying thatthe Camino provides.
So everyone says you know that the Caminoprovides and And there's endless stories
of, people, running into difficultiesand the Camino has provided, and it does,
but it's probably good to, to go intoit with a certain amount of planning,
(27:10):
and the Camino will provide if things dogo pear shaped, but don't expect that.
do your homework and go into it prepared.
Yeah.
But it is nice and, peopledo look out for each other.
we were, we didn't actually see this,but we'd got friendly with this, group
of, there were three German ladies.
So what happens is you meet people,along the way and, you might be
(27:34):
walking further than them that day.
So they're staying somewheredifferent, but then the next day
they walk, they catch you up.
you meet people and then youdon't see them for a few days
and then you run into them again.
Anyway, so these German ladies, andwe'd actually bonded over salty chips
because it was so hot, you're sweatinga lot and so you're just craving
(27:54):
something salty at the end of the day.
So our thing was that we would,find the biggest packet of salty
chips we could find and eat them.
And these German ladies said, oh, wetotally, we drink beer and eat chips
too, we, we know what you're about.
but anyway, one of them unfortunatelyhad tripped and fell and she, smashed her
mouth and she had a crown in her mouth.
(28:17):
And that got broken, but, and we werein front of them that day, so we didn't
know this had happened until the endof the day, but, other pilgrims had,
who spoke French had, come to theiraid and,, someone had, found a car and
they'd got her to a dentist and, sopeople are really helpful that way.
And if I can give anyone a pro tip, ifyou don't speak the language yourself,
(28:42):
as soon as you can, befriend someone whodoes, because they come in really handy.
One night we were going to goout to dinner and we were in this
tiny village and nothing was open.
But, this, guy, Mario, who we gotfriendly with, spoke fluent French
and he cajoled some, a cafe, becausehe could speak the language into they
said they didn't have any reservations,but they, he, because he spoke the
(29:05):
language, he was able to convincethem that they could squeeze us in.
Lucky, got your dinner.
So if you befriend someone thatspeaks the language, then you can
open doors for you along the way.
So.
So that's definitely a pro tip.
Yeah.
Yep.
There's a lot to know about doing theCamino and a lot of that information
seems to be readily available ifyou choose to go and find it and
(29:29):
there's also a pro tip in there.
We'll take a break now and after thebreak we'll have a look at what it means.
We've had a look at what ittakes to walk the Camino.
Now let's have a look at what it means.
(29:50):
Alison, what does it mean to you,your family or the community that
you're able to walk the Camino trail?
So for me it was probablymore of a personal thing.
People walk, and we met people whowere walking for all sorts of reasons.
some of them, had some sort oftraumatic experience and they just
(30:12):
wanted to get away from it all and,walk and think and that sort of thing.
we were more looking for a physicalchallenge, and a, an adventure.
and just a voyage of discoveryreally through, through rural France.
it's so different.
Australia is fascinating and you getout in the bush and you can, you,
(30:34):
you, the history and especially theindigenous culture, it's there, but it's
harder to, you've got to look for it.
In Europe it's visible, there'sa castle on a hill that you
can see for, from a distance.
that kind of, history was interesting andit's the sort of thing where you think,
oh, I wish I'd listened more at school.
(30:56):
it was like a living history.
lesson as well.
yeah, lots of, that sort of thing.
certainly going through France, I didn'trealise, to me skittles, you get a skittle
set when you're three or four and it'slike a plastic . skittles with a ball.
It's huge in France.
we, we came into a village wherethere was a skittle tournament there
(31:18):
was an arena with, tiered seating andscoreboards and, people had come from
other villages, there were teams.
And, it was like ourAFL almost, it was huge.
I thought, oh, didn't know, and Ican't remember whether it was called
Skittles, probably not because itwas French, but that was interesting.
that, just the different sportsand things that they have.
(31:41):
And all along, the way I keptseeing these things that I could
only describe as, and I thought ofthem as tall skinny rabbit hutches.
And I couldn't think what these,I thought, I don't think they
have tall skinny rabbits here.
I couldn't think, and I just kept seeingthese things, and it wasn't until we
were right at the end, I actually saw onethat had, and it had corn husks in it.
(32:03):
What it is because they growa lot of corn, so these are
what they put the corn cobs.
They put them in there for drying.
so they get filled up with thecorn because the corn needs to be
dry and then they use it for feed.
I think they use it forthe stock feed and things.
yeah, so all those.
So
the building, or the structuretakes on that shape of the corn?
(32:25):
if you can imagine a thing that, astructure that's, and it's covered in
like chicken wire, and it might be a metrewide, but it might be say, I don't know,
two metres tall, and it'll be off theground, on a bit of a stand, so it just
looks like a tall skinny rabbit hutch.
But that's what it's for drying corn, justthe different ways they, they do things.
(32:48):
they have a thing in France, possiblyother countries, but it's called the Most
Beautiful Villages and, it's a statusthat people can, a village can sign on to.
and the criteria, the village has to haveless than 2, 000 people and it has to
have at least two sites that are, Theirheritage recognised as, heritage listed.
(33:12):
and they have to be, untouched by modernThere won't be any modern buildings.
There won't be a, a HungryJacks or a something.
That they've retained their originality.
So the village is thousands of yearsold and it's maintained as that.
It's not, when you're walking alongthe Via Podiensis, you actually go
through a number of these villages.
(33:35):
they're beautiful to look at, theseold stone buildings and it's actually
amazing that they've managed to.
retrofit them with electricityand Wi Fi and, but they still
look the same from the outside,
That's interesting that there'sactually some sort of deterrent
for those towns to actually put upnew architectural type buildings.
(33:58):
Yes, so when you walk through a numberof these small villages like that and
it's a real assault on your senses wecame to a town called Ka'oor, which
is about, probably about halfway andit was, it's probably got about 15,
000 people, I think, but there wastraffic lights and there were shops and
we just thought, get us out of here.
(34:19):
it was too much because you get so used tothe solitude and the, peacefulness and the
rhythm of just walking and the quietness.
yeah, it's quite different.
It's quite underrated, isn'tit, that, having that ability
to be somewhere quiet and
Absolutely, yes.
I'll say in nature, although thisis not always directly in nature,
(34:40):
but certainly you're going throughsome pretty natural environments.
Yes, and you do have plentyof time to contemplate.
We didn't set out to particularly, do anysort of deep and meaningful introspection,
but you just do as a naturalconsequence of doing this, this walking.
And for me, it definitely taught me tolive more simply because, you've just
(35:04):
got your backpack, and you just put it onat the start of the day and off you go.
And it's that rhythm And I certainlythought, why have I got a house
full of stuff at home when I'mliving quite comfortably with
what I'm carrying on my back?
So when we did get home, I went throughthe house and I had a big clean out.
(35:25):
and now, I probably need to do itagain, but, yes, it certainly teaches
you, or renews what you might'vealready known, confirms what you
might've already known that we, we docarry around too much stuff, really.
Lots of baggage.
Yes, yep.
So let things go, yeah.
Try and keep things simple.
(35:47):
That sounds, yeah, almostcathartic in some ways.
Not what you were there for, butclearly there were others who, you
said, had been through stuff thatthey wanted to actually Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Take that time out.
Yes.
and I realized myself that yeah, there's,just as a natural consequence of doing
this, that, yeah, you can, clear outyour mind whether you intended to or not.
(36:09):
you end up doing it.
yeah.
And it's, I can recommend doing that.
. Any, anybody you know, every now and then.
Absolutely.
You can easily be filled upwith all the things that go on.
You look at, especially if you've gota TV going or something like that.
There's just stuff constantly beingtipped in and it's all programmed
(36:29):
to get you to do something.
I don't think the human brain was meantto, cope with as much stuff, information
that gets thrown at us all today.
it's good to try and be still every nowand then and, be with your own thoughts.
It has meaning for the Frenchcommunity because, it keeps
(36:50):
these little communities going.
yeah.
Gives them some purpose.
Yeah.
And, their economy and their, Their life.
It enables them to stay in the, becausewithout the Camino going through, those
communities would probably just die.
there are already plenty of communitiesyou hear about, through parts of
(37:10):
Europe, particularly the more remoteparts, I think, where, you can pick up
houses because there's nobody there.
Even in Tasmania a few years ago,Zeehan and parts down that west
coast, they couldn't give houses away.
because their mining or whateverwas there was finished and sometimes
(37:30):
without that, communities do die.
There's no reason forpeople to be there anymore.
yeah.
We've seen quite a lot of differentmeaning in walking the Camino Trail.
We'll have a break now, and after thebreak, we'll look at how you do it.
(37:53):
We've had a look at what itmeans to walk the Camino.
Now, we'll have a look at how you do it.
Alison, if someone was going totake this on, what would be a
good way for them to approach it?
Okay, so start out and, read, watch,certainly, watching a movie or reading
(38:14):
a novel can give you, if that's, ifyou're that way inclined, that can
give you a good, bit of background.
But also there's documentaries, there'sFacebook groups, there's guidebooks.
I would say find out asmuch about it as you can.
speak to someone who's actually doneit, who's got, first hand experience.
gather as much, generalinformation as you can.
(38:37):
And obviously you're going to need,you need an airfare and a passport, so
make sure you've got those organised.
make sure you've got good travelinsurance because the, the path
can be, quite treacherous inplaces, I did mention someone had
a, an unfortunate, they fell over.
(38:58):
various things can happen, andthe best travel insurance is
not always the cheapest thatyou can find off the internet.
Travel insurance pays off when you needto claim, so you need to know that this
company is actually going to pay you.
Come to the party when you make a claim.
good travel insurance.
you need to be determinedbecause as I mentioned, we
had COVID interrupt our plans.
(39:19):
you want to be able tofollow things through.
When you're going to another country,if you don't speak the language, at
least know the basics, know how to sayplease and thank you, hello and goodbye.
because that means a lot to the locals,if they can see you making an effort,
they will help you out, learn the basicsof the language and also mentioned
(39:40):
befriend someone who is fluent in thelanguage if you can, that helps too.
With your accommodation, you'regoing to be, staying in hostels, and
they're often someone's, family home.
You'll have an evening meal, you'llhave a bed and you'll have breakfast.
So book at least, a day aheadsimply because they are going
(40:02):
to be cooking a meal for you.
So it's a courtesy that they know how manypeople they're going to be cooking for.
We booked about a day ahead eachtime or sometimes might have
booked a couple of days ahead.
cause you want to try and beflexible, as much as you can.
we wanted to be flexible.
don't want to think, oh, we have toget to such and such today because
there might be something reallyinteresting along the way that you
(40:25):
stop and look at for an hour or two.
So then you might want to think, oh,we won't go quite as far today because
we've been having a really good timeand we've stopped and looked at things.
And if you've got a booking, then,oh, the pressure's on to get there.
So try and be flexible, but you doneed to let your hosts know, so that
they can prepare for you properly.
(40:45):
How do you communicate with those hosts?
So when you don't speak the language,we had an email that we'd composed,
in French, that basically said, there,because my husband Frank was, he
joined us for some of the way as well.
So we said, hello,we're three Australians.
We're walking, the Camino.
Do you have a room for threeon such and such a date?
(41:06):
So we had that translated into French.
So we would just send that off.
So in the guidebooks and apps and variousthings, we had lists of accommodation
that was available in various towns.
So we would just fire off thisemail and whoever came back.
Someone would come back or three of themwould come back, so you just, choose
(41:27):
the one that you want and then justlet the others know that you're fine.
Or the other thing that they dois they use WhatsApp, which is an
app on your phone that's text.
We would have a text ready in French.
Google Translate is yourfriend, it works really well.
So generally, they communicate byeither of those, or phone calls, but
(41:48):
we couldn't do phone calls because, we
The language barrier.
yeah.
but it's, yeah, text based, and anothersort of a quirk I suppose of the French,
and out in these rural areas, theydon't take credit cards, generally.
They take cash, butthey will take cheques.
No one has a checkbook in Australiaanymore, but, yes, in France they do.
(42:11):
but, when you're, from Australiaor America, carry a bit of cash,
and, because you're in such smallvillages, there won't be an ATM.
When you're at a larger place wherethere is an ATM, get some cash so that
you've got enough cash for the nextfew days, because you don't want to
be, caught without any means to pay.
(42:32):
There are luggage transfer services.
if people do want to, we encounteredpeople that needed medication that, and,
they're going to be walking for a month.
they've got a lot of it.
it's too heavy, or they might havebeen travelling on afterwards, after
the Camino, so they'd have suitcases.
So there's various luggagetransfer services who will it's
(42:53):
usually about 10 euro, I think.
they'll transfer yourluggage from place to place.
We didn't chose to do that becausethat also cuts into your flexibility.
Because if your luggage is going to besomewhere then you need to be that place.
You need to get there.
You need to be there as well.
there's a rule of thumb thatyour backpack should weigh about
10 percent of your body weight.
(43:15):
I think ours weighed about five tosix kilos, and it was very liberating
to just travel with not much stuff.
You're walking for a number ofweeks, the weather could be, get a
variety of weather, so our criteriafor packing was does it scrunch up
really small, does it weigh next tonothing, and does it dry in no time.
(43:35):
If it didn't meet any ofthose, then it didn't go in.
With clothes, there's one inyour pack and one on your back.
You can't be thinking, oh, butI might go out to dinner, or I
might do this, or I might do that.
Be firm with yourself.
We wore trail shoes and toe socks, whichI swear by, but everyone's different.
(43:55):
and so you need a pair of lightweight,something like Crocs or sandals
because you do want to take yourshoes off at the end of the day.
But you've still got a few hours,where you're having dinner and whatnot.
So you put your sandals on or, yourlightweight shoes as to give your
feet a break from your walking shoes.
The French, and I've only encounteredthis in France, but they've got
(44:17):
a real thing about bed bugs.
We never got bed bugs, but they likeyou to bring a, silk, you can buy them
anywhere, silk, sleeping bag liner orsleeping sack, and they don't let you
take your backpacks or your shoes or yourhiking poles into the, sleeping room.
(44:38):
You arrive And you show in this roomand you put your backpack, your shoes
and your poles, you leave all thatthere and you just take out your,
toiletries and whatever you need andthat's what you take to the room.
Have those things separate sothat you can easily just pull them
out of your pack and take them,
that's something that youwouldn't naturally think about.
(45:00):
No.
No.
So that's certainly a thing in France.
and it's good to actually have all yourgear in, inside your pack, and your pack
needs to have a waterproof cover, butinside your pack it's good to have things
in waterproof, little, bags as well.
Two layers of waterproofingis better than one.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
(45:20):
there is nothing worse than, youonly have to get all your gear wet
once, and it, you don't do it again,you don't let it happen again.
Make sure before, before you leavehome, if you haven't walked with
a backpack before, make sure thatyour backpack suits you, that you've
got a backpack that's comfortable.
When you go and buy a backpack,the places will fit them.
(45:43):
They'll make sure that it fits, becausethere's backpacks for men and women
because, they're a different shape.
And then there's also, if you're shorteror taller or there's backpacks that suit
different body shapes, so make sure thatyour backpack fits because there will
be nothing worse than, you know, chafingstraps and things on your backpack.
(46:06):
Yeah, imagine anything that rubswill cause problems very quickly.
And of course, because you'regoing the next day as well,
It's day after day, so you want to bephysically comfortable so make sure that
you have all those issues sorted out andsee what works for you before you go.
and that's why I'm saying if youhaven't already done any of that sort
of hiking or you're not particularlyfit, a good six months out, start
(46:32):
getting those things sorted out.
Because you just don't wantany issues once you get there.
You're a long way from home.
So you need to be goingon practice walks and
Absolutely.
Yep.
and put some weight, whateverweight you think you're going to be
carrying, put that in your backpack.
You can start out with your backpackempty, if you haven't done any that sort
(46:53):
of walking before, but then gradually putweight into it, so that what you're doing.
Hiking poles, They're very common inEurope, but not so much in Australia,
but, they are excellent and I find,especially when you've got a backpack,
because it throws your weight out abit, so if you've got poles it just
helps you to balance better, but they'rejust good for, if the terrain is rough
(47:16):
you can use them to lean on, but Ijust find it much more comfortable
walking with poles day after day.
I liken it to four wheel driving.
you've got four points onthe ground instead of two.
I'm sure it's better.
I don't know all the, physiological,mechanical sort of reasons for
it, but I find it much more.
(47:36):
you can feel it.
You can, and so the proof is atthe end of the day, you're you feel
like you could do it all again.
something's working.
And guess what?
Tomorrow.
You're going to be doing it again.
You need to take some sort ofbasic first aid, don't think
nothing's going to happen.
Things like, just simple things,band aids and maybe a compression
(47:58):
bandage or something and also knowthe, emergency numbers are for the
country that you're in, because it'snot always, it's triple zero here, but
It's not necessarily the same there.
Ignorance is not bliss whenyou're a long way from home.
yeah.
And sunscreen, especially, if it's summer.
A hat.
(48:18):
You will, like a sim or an e sim for yourphone so that you've got communication
because, and generally, I can't rememberwhat brand of, sim we had, but it worked.
And when you're doing all your homework.
People will say, oh, thissim worked everywhere.
sometimes they won't work in some areas,but you'll find one that will work, so
(48:41):
that you've got coverage everywhere.
and this in The Via Podiensisis particularly well marked.
It's a red stripe at thetop and a white stripe.
So it's a red and a white stripe.
And it's actually called the GR65.
And it's marked everywhere.
You know, if there's no, if there's not atree or a fence post, it'll be on a rock.
(49:04):
it's really well marked.
You actually don't need to carryany sort of, map with you because
the way is so well marked.
The only thing you've got to watchis when you're going through villages
because you can be getting talking andwhatever and You can actually lose your
way even though it's a small village.
Sometimes you can think, oh, wheredid we last see a marker and you
(49:25):
might have to go back and, so justthrough villages, you've just got to
be like a slightly bigger village wherethere's more than a couple of streets.
You can bamboozle yourself.
But one of the best things is you canhave guilt free carbs because you need
carbs, because you're walking every day.
And, France is likethe, King of the carbs.
(49:46):
who doesn't like a French bakery?
In a lot of the hostels, this van wouldpull up in the morning and deposit a
few sacks of baguettes, fresh baguettes.
And so you can lay intoone of those at breakfast.
'cause you're gonna walkit all off during the day.
And, I am rather fond of cheese.
What's, cheese and breadfor lunch is, quite nice.
(50:08):
And and then whatever mealthey're cooking for you.
And because, you're, you geta feel for the regions because
they, you'll, eat whatever is,you know, you'll get the region.
When we started in La Puy, some peoplemight be familiar with the Puy Lentil.
and so that's a lentil growing area.
So around there, the meals are basedaround lentils and then, there's
(50:30):
different specialties and the hostwill be proud to say, this is our
regional, this is what we do here.
and there's a thing called, oh, Ijust can't remember, Aligoo, it's
essentially mashed potato and cheese.
but it's delicious when they, it'sthe way you cook it that brings these
simple ingredients To another level.
you get that in a few places, but youcan eat it guilt free because you're
(50:54):
walking the next day and away you go.
I did find that, certainly, probably inthe first 600, 500 to 600 Ks, you don't
actually need to carry a lot of water.
because there are a lot of, drinking tapsand troughs probably from when they used
to, water the horses, that sort of thing.
So there's a lot of fresh water and even,and this was summer and it was hot, but,
(51:18):
and it will say if you can't drink it,but mostly, there was water available.
You could fill your bottle.
so that, that was good, but do beprepared, your backpack will probably
come with a bladder, but you can, soyou can choose whether you're going to
do that or carry drink bottles, but,you don't need to carry a lot of water
really because it's readily available.
(51:39):
, Anyone that's done anyhiking knows water's heavy.
Yeah, so to pick it up at frequentlocations along the course is a lot.
Just means you're not having to carryso much at the start of the day.
Yeah.
Thank you very much, Alison, forbeing a guest on Forrest.Chat podcast.
listeners of Forrest.Chat podcast wish youall the best with your future endeavors.
(52:01):
I should ask, what is your next thing?
the world's a big place, Paul,there's a lot of walks that
I want to do in Australia.
There, there are actually, so theCamino started in Europe and it's a,
it's, that thousands, been going forthousands of years, but there's other
walks now that are called Caminos.
(52:21):
There's one in Japan,which rather appeals.
There's actually a Caminoin Western Australia, which
is being developed really.
that starts in Perthand goes to New Norcia.
that's called the Camino Salvado.
and that, apart from that, there'sjust so many walks and so little time.
we'll see how we go.
(52:42):
Yes.
And you have life all aroundthat, but, the walks join
it all together, don't they?
That's
right.
Yep.
. And would you recommend the Camino?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
and whether it's the Camino Salvado,whether it's, the, Way of St.
James in France, if you get the chanceto do it, I highly recommend it.
so many benefits for you.
(53:03):
Yeah.
It does sound that way.
Yeah.
Thank you very much, Alison.
You've been listening to Forrest.Chat,where we talk about individual
endeavour in Western Australia.
What it takes, what itmeans, and how you do it.
In today's episode we talked with AlisonKidman about walking the Camino Trail.
Remember, there are four ways toget involved with Forrest.Chat.
(53:27):
Share the domain Forrest.Chat with yourfriends and family and people you meet.
When you subscribe to the emails youget advance notice of the episodes.
Listen to the episodes atForrest.Chat slash episodes.
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(53:47):
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I'm looking forward to joiningyou with our next guest.
Until then, enjoy making it happen.
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