October 15, 2025 • 45 mins
We’ve been working with songwriters from all walks of life… some that have never written a song before, some that have written many - yet we see a lot of the same mistakes coming up for these writers.
Let’s look at some of the most common mistakes songwriters make, so that you don’t have to fall into those same traps!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I was thinking
(00:00):
we could just discuss some of these common mistakes
so that you don't have to make those mistakes
the first mistake that I see songwriters make
is they are getting stuck on their chord progressions
chord progressions are really just not that important
at all that's the least important part of songwriting
yet people get stuck with it
(00:21):
another mistake not editing their songs
hmm it's okay to use the same word twice
you can go back to it
and figure out another word for it later
a two way kind of problem or mistake that people make
they either don't edit their songs
or they edit too early
I am so nitpicky when it comes to syllable counts
hmm wanting your song to be perfect from the beginning
(00:43):
just let it be a little bad first
let it suck a little it should be by right of passage
your first song should suck
next mistake you're gonna hate yourself
you're gonna be like oh
what was that thing that I wrote
I'm like oh
well too bad it's gone cause you deleted it
keep your notes
(01:08):
hey Vox Star
and welcome to from singer to artist
I'm Lara Chapman award winning singer and songwriter
turned viral vocal coach and the host of this show
at VoxTape Studios
we help singers from all over the world
level up their voices
by teaching them the three fundamental skills
all singers need technique
awareness and artistry whether you're looking to go pro
(01:29):
or just develop your voice for fun
my team and I are here to help
check the link in the description
to book your first session
or grab some of our other resources
Alrighty are you ready
let's get started
welcome back to our little show
I have Coach Juliana in the studio with me hello
mistakes that songwriters make
(01:49):
we've been working with a lot of different people
from all walks of life on their songwriting
some people that wanna you know
become professional songwriters
write for others or write for themselves
for their artist project
and some people that just wanna write for fun
we've kind of done it all and I feel like there's a
a lot of like common threads throughout
(02:12):
yes haha
when we like
when we look at mistakes that people make or
or whatever um
so I was thinking
we could just discuss some of these common mistakes
so that you don't have to make those mistakes
that's good love it
yeah alright
let's get started mistake numero UNO
what's mistake in Spanish
(02:32):
error oh error
I love it error error yeah
am I is my pronunciation good
error yeah
that's good great
a lot of RRR that RRR yeah
RRR I think
I'm like
trying to think is there's another word for it
but yeah error
uh yeah
error error
mistake I'm trying to think about is failure
(02:53):
it's failure in German oh
fail
failure
fail yeah yeah
but like fail
fail oh fail fail
yes fail
oh I never made that connection
we got a new donkey bridge
we got a new donkey bridge
a donkey bridge the donkey we
we talked about this in another podcast
what a donkey bridge is but anyways okay
(03:15):
it doesn't matter it's an inside joke
it doesn't don't worry
you're not cool enough to know
no I'm just kidding
but it's not it's not
it's really not that serious anyways
let's get into it
okay alright
uh the first mistake that I see songwriters make
is
they are getting stuck on their chord progressions
for way too long or um
(03:37):
if they're producers
and they also know how to produce tracks
they're getting stuck in the production details
before the song is fleshed out
hmm big
big no no right
I'm like let's figure out the whole thing first
and then we can go into the details
(03:58):
it doesn't need to be perfect from the first try
let's get into the details later
let's just flush it all out
like whole structure
and then we can we can work on yeah
on that other stuff once your song is done
you could spend as many hours as you want
on the production but finish it first
yes yes
and also with the core progression too
um I always say
(04:20):
chord progressions are the one thing about songwriting
that you cannot copyright
and the song title
you cannot copyright a song title either
but you can copyright melodies
and you can copyright lyrics
but not chord progressions
because chord progressions are like
the same exactly exactly
uh there's like
(04:40):
a lot of comedians that you know
use the same four or three chord uh
like chord progression
and then they sing all these different songs
to show the audience they're all the same song
but they're not all the same song
because of the lyrics and the melodies
but they would be if we just looked at core progression
so I always say like
core progressions are really just not that important
(05:01):
at all that's the least important part of songwriting
yet people get stuck with it way too quickly
right and it's just like no
no no
no no no
like it doesn't
it doesn't matter and one way that I like to use
to just eliminate that problem all together
especially if you're just getting started
and you're trying to develop a songwriting system
(05:22):
that works well for you is
just remove that aspect
from the songwriting process altogether
and just focus on toplining first
and so top lining in case you don't know what that is
is when you're writing to a track that already exists
maybe you have a producer friend
that made the track for you
or maybe you just
literally went on YouTube and found a track
(05:43):
that's what I do all the time
there's also a lot of beat platforms out there
and so just find a track that you like
and then you're not changing the core progression
or you're not doing any of the production
you're literally just toplining
which is melody and lyrics only
and I think that's a great way to get started
yeah
cause you don't have to focus on all of the elements
(06:03):
just melody and lyrics and you're done
melody and lyrics exactly
cause that's those are the most important parts
not the progression
so don't get stuck on that stuff that doesn't matter
I'm not saying it doesn't matter
but it's not that important
not as much exactly right
um
okay another mistake that uh
songwriters make or aspiring songwriters make
(06:26):
is not editing their songs hmm
yeah yeah yeah yeah
the amount of songs that I have written
and then just forgotten is
is just a little embarrassing
so yeah
go through your song make sure you're
you know listening back
check your syllable counts
what's the rhyming scheme
does it make sense is it a little too cliche
(06:48):
can we make it sound cooler
you're gonna appreciate it at the end
when you do a couple passes through that
and we do that a lot with our students as well
yes I think what I see often with songwriters and I
that's also something that I have to be mindful of
as well when it comes to lyric writing especially uh
they're using the same descriptive word twice
(07:13):
yeah within just a very short period of time
like within the first verse
for example like the word best twice or whatever
right like
just some word they're using it twice
and I'm like well
we could use a different word to say the same thing
and you're automatically gonna like it a lot more
(07:33):
and it sounds a lot more clever
because you're not just saying the same thing
over and over again but in that first run through
like when as you're writing
right in that first draft essentially
it's okay to use the same word twice
you can go back to it and figure out another
another word for it later
um when you are editing your song right
yep but uh I
(07:55):
I just I sometimes think that
if you're trying to edit as you go
you're not gonna finish yeah
you're not gonna finish your song hahaha
so yeah
I think this is like a
a two way kind of problem or mistake that people make
they either don't edit their songs
or they edit too early or both
(08:15):
yeah sometimes as well right
like don't edit as you write
write first after
and edit after yup
cause otherwise you're you're getting out of the flow
we need to stay in flow okay
and then edit later syllable count
love that you're bringing that up
I'm a pop girly and if it is not the same syllables
(08:37):
no no
no no no no
and again you can put in a placeholder where it's like
close enough
but I'm gonna go back to this later
and I'm gonna figure out a better way
of saying the same thing where the syllable count
then also matches whatever I had in the other phrase
haha exactly
I
I am so nitpicky when it comes to syllable counts
hmm yeah
it's a pet peeve of mine if it's not right
(08:59):
cause then it's not pop anymore
I'm not saying that it you know
you have to write pop music to be a songwriter
you can write whatever you want
but it's especially important in pop especially
yeah uh
anyways next mistake number three
wanting your song to be perfect from the beginning
that's just pretty much what we just talked about right
you're editing as you go don't edit as you go
(09:22):
yeah and I think it's important to uh
just let it be a little bad
first let it suck a little
cause then you can go back and edit
exactly so just write
just get the song out
and then you can perfect as you go
or make better as you go
a song is never gonna be perfect
(09:44):
like especially if you're a creator
it's never gonna be perfect
like you're always gonna find something that you don't
you're not loving right
so just be nicer to yourself
yeah and I also think uh
you know especially if you're about to release a song
or you're working on a song to release it
I see so many people that just keep like
(10:05):
tweaking things
especially when it comes to the production
I'm like stop touching it and just release it
pretty please yeah
thank you very much hahaha
um but yeah
and also if you're very new to the songwriting process
it's okay if your first song that you're writing
even after editing it's still not great hahaha it's
(10:28):
it should be by Rider Passage
your first song should suck yeah
or at least not be incredible
yeah and I think we
and if it is I
I hate you yes
yes very much so
oh my gosh like jealous
OK whatever
but no I
I totally agree with you uh
let it let it
let it suck
(10:48):
and allow yourself to not be perfect from the first try
it's just not how it works
like that's not what we expect
someone else like
out of someone else
when they're doing something for the first time
at least we shouldn't like
we shouldn't expect
for someone who has never washed the dishes hahaha
and never seen anyone else wash the dishes
(11:10):
to perfectly wash the dishes
yeah um
that's a stupid example
but I can't think of anything else right now
makes total sense you get better as you do it
that's just how it works I mean
babies are the perfect example for it
uh huh babies don't like the first step they take
and now boom
they're walking
and they're amazing and super stable on their feet
like no
(11:30):
they fall all the time but guess what
they get up and try again and again and again and again
and then we're humans and we can walk Yay
I'm not that babies aren't humans
but we're older and we can walk right
so anyways you get the picture
you get the picture uh okay
moving on to melody specific stuff
(11:51):
the next mistake that I see a lot of songwriters make
is that they are making the melodies match the lyrics
instead of the lyrics matching the melodies
oh so I think it's a little bit of both
like you need to do a little bit of both
um but what I see a lot of songwriters do
(12:14):
is they write their lyrics first
and then they figure out the melodies
to get those lyrics out exactly the way they are
and are not willing to make changes to their lyrics
to make the melodies flow better
and this is then what sometimes
uh leads to
like inconsistency in the melodies right
(12:34):
going back to patterns
this is something we've talked about in other episodes
as well
patterns are very important
so what makes something catchy
and patterns in the melody right
not patterns in the lyrics
nobody's gonna remember that
but patterns in your melody
and so I always encourage people to unless
you know
(12:55):
inspiration strikes and the lyrics are just flowing out
right but usually
I encourage people to write the melody first
then the lyrics
so that we can make the lyrics match the melody
and follow that perfect pattern
um rather than the other way around
now we have to be careful with this
because the lyrics and the melody
(13:16):
they need to work together
otherwise what can happen is uh
I hear this all the time where people like
mispronounce or like
mistress words because of the melody
like because of how it's like
written and it's like
hold on this doesn't work
or if it's done on purpose
like that's fine
it can it can happen every so often where
(13:36):
you know you're saying yeah
there's exceptions yeah
like you're saying insomnia instead of insomnia
or insomnia instead of insomnia right
like just a miss stress in the word
like that's something that's very common again
because the editing process is not flowing
rights of the song Am I Making Sense
(13:59):
yeah yeah
I think it's a lot easier
to just get the bones of the melody going
before you set your heart on lyrics
like you can have ideas for each section and all that
like especially
if you're going through a step by step formula
(14:20):
you should have an idea
of what's gonna happen in that verse
but um yeah
don't get married to um
what a line is gonna sound like or read like
cause they should work cohesively
yes yes
it needs to work together
and now obviously
it's amazing when you're you know
(14:41):
more advanced at songwriting
and melodies and lyrics flow out of you
at the same time like wow
don't we love when that happens
doesn't happen that often though
like even for pro writers
I don't think it happens that often
yeah but anyways
and the reason why I always focus so much on melodies
like make the melodies work first
(15:02):
and then figure out the lyrics
like adjust
be more willing to adjust the lyrics
than to adjust the melody again
within reason always within reason
but
the reason why I'm always focusing on melody so much
is because melody is king
and I know
I say that in pretty much every single video
that you've seen on songwriting from me
but it truly is the case melody is more important
(15:23):
it's what people are gonna remember
what's gonna get stuck in their heads
so it's okay to make compromises for your lyrics
um it's also okay to make compromises in your melodies
like again
everything within reason but it just
it has to make sense it has to flow
it has to flow and it has to work together
yeah I was working with Rachel um
(15:45):
she's a local local here to my area
uh performer
and she's never enjoyed songwriting
she's like
I feel like it's something I should learn how to do
but I I just don't feel like I can express myself well
so I just really don't enjoy the process
so we
we just launched our songwriting for singers cohort and
uh if you haven't signed up for it yet
(16:06):
you should totally check out what it is
and we can talk more about it later too
but
she's the one that I walked through our entire course
um like
at our entire process and I filmed her and me like
writing a song she was writing
and I was just you know
telling her this is what we need to do
and then she was writing and I was just kind of like
(16:27):
guiding her through it and so she was creating melodies
but she was creating so
like just how we do in our little framework
right she
I told her create a melody
she created a melody uh
but she created melodies with gibberish
which is always what I recommend
right not
like already trying to make up lyrics as you go
but then we quickly realized that
(16:47):
if she creates gibberish melodies
that sound like they could be words
and sometimes are even like random words in there
it makes it so much easier then
for her to create lyrics that work with those melodies
even if we completely change the lyrics
but it feels more singable to her
(17:09):
more natural to her
even though the lyrics absolutely don't make any sense
it's still gibberish right
um but it
it feels more like yes
now I can put lyrics to this and they're not just notes
yeah cause
singers can sometimes get carried away a little bit
right like
if you're a really good singer
which Rachel is a fantastic singer
if you're a really good singer
you're all about melodies
(17:29):
and you start creating crazy melodies
and then
they're not really singable with lyrics anymore
right right
um so we had that little breakthrough
and I love that that happened on camera
and that we captured it
nice so yeah it's
it's in the course in our songwriting for
for singers course and by the way
when we say songwriting for singers
it's not just for singers
(17:51):
it's just for anybody that um
wants to learn right
how to write a song
and not rely on instruments or music theory
we just make it way way way
way way simple
and we've just worked with a lot of singers
because we're vocal coaches
besides being songwriting coaches
and a lot of the students that we've worked with
they don't play instruments
and so that's why we called it songwriting for singers
(18:11):
but you don't have to identify as a singer
to do the course and get a lot out of it but anyways
little Tangent there but haha
it's important melodies are important
it matches yeah
it matches with the next mistake
what is the next mistake I haven't even read along yet
uh make the writing melodies that are not singable
there you go yeah
writing melodies that are not singable
(18:31):
ta da that's the next mistake
and we just solved that problem perfect yeah
anything else that we need to add to that
just keep it simple
especially if you're writing for the first time
or you're very new don't overwork
don't over sing don't overwrite
just keep it simple if it's too simple
you can go back and edit it and make it cooler
but I always try and simplify cause I was very known
(18:56):
especially in school
cause I was listening to jazz and new soul
and I was like I need to make everything sound cool
and some of my friends were like
what if you simplify that
like what do you mean
yes yes
and that's cool like
that's really cool for a specific style
but you know
if you're trying to appeal to the masses
(19:16):
there you go yep
and we we talked about this in
in other episodes as well
but um
you know we
we said you have to remember that your average listener
your average audience member is not trained in music
yep so make it simple so that they can follow along
they're not professionals at this right
(19:38):
yep um
and make it singable yes
simple and singable
next mistake that songwriters are making
is make the verse and the chorus sound too similar
mm hmm mm hmm
mm hmm mm hmm
yep yep
we want contrast people
we need contrast cause if it's the same thing
guess what people will do next
(20:00):
because it gets boring it's
it's kind of like the opposite of what we just said
like make it simple right
hahaha right
it could still be simple but different hahaha
simple but different yes
yeah um Jason
I was working with Jason a couple years ago as well
and a couple months ago
he then reached out to me and he's like hey
I'm recording the song in the studio
can you help me uh
(20:21):
like vocally like
figure out how to do the vocal delivery of the song
and I was listening to the song
and we were working on it like yeah
this is great this is great
this is great
and then we got to the chorus and I was like
Jason
your melody is the same in your chorus
as it is in the verse
don't you remember what we did three years ago
(20:43):
and you know sometimes it's right for the song
because that's what you want it to be
and you know what
that's for me good enough reason
if that's what you love
and you just don't want to change anything about it
because you're so in love with it
cool yeah
do what lights up your heart baby
like whatever you wanna do
right a but or
(21:04):
and if we wanna appeal to the masses
we gotta follow some rules
um but anyways
he was like oh
I didn't even notice and so we
we dissected it we looked at it
and I was like okay
okay okay okay
see and then yup
you know tiny
tiny little tweaks makes it different uh
still similar but different enough to be like
and now we're in a new song section
(21:25):
yeah cause Jason is one of those people
he's very very Musically talented
um just has a lot of knowledge around music
he's an incredible piano player
uh does his own productions
major Michael Jackson fan
right so like
he just knows a lot about music
and this is an issue that we see then
a lot with people that are very Musically trained
(21:49):
is that they overcomplicated um
or get stuck in creating the contrast
in the production only and not with your songwriting
so this is kind of like
going back to two mistakes
that we already were talking about previously
to this mistake but anyways
just wanted to mention that yeah
that's good that's a good reminder
(22:10):
yeah uh contrast
we need contrast
songwriting is all about repetition and contrast
and finding the balance between the two love
next mistake
not being clear of the overall topic of the song
before starting to write oh so
so guilty of doing that
before I develop my four step lyric writing formula
(22:30):
I did this all the time
and I would never be able to finish a song
I started a million songs
and I still have those documents where I'm like OK
that's another unfinished song
another unfinished song another unfinished song
another unfinished song I'm like
god damn it girl
what were you doing
that's why we have the force of lyric writing formula
so that you know how you feel about it
before you start writing yeah yeah
(22:53):
you gotta know your topic
you gotta know your storyline
you gotta know what happens in each section
before you sit down and write it
otherwise what happens
or what do we run the chances of happening
if we don't do that
you'll get stuck you won't have a second verse
yes the story like
it's like oh
what now you're gonna get a little bit of blockage
(23:16):
um or you keep saying the same thing yeah
you're gonna repeat yourself
or it tendencies into another storyline
and people are gonna be like
what is this about you know
yes we gotta have consistency
and again if we're appealing for the masses
this is right yes
people need to understand what you're singing about
this was a this was an issue
I think I think that was Kevin
(23:38):
if I remember correctly uh
he put three different songs in one song
like lyrically like storytelling wise
not on purpose but I was like
you do know you could write three
completely different songs about this right
like
you don't need to pack it all into one song
I think it was Kevin if I remember correctly
(23:58):
but either way somebody did that
um yeah
a lot of people do that
yeah and um
if you get clear on what goes in each section
how you really feel about it
and blah blah blah blah
that problem is not gonna happen
so no writer's block no multiple songs in one song
no storyline that doesn't make sense
or no storyline period um
(24:19):
and no repeating yourself over and over and over again
it solves a lot of problems
oh yeah oh yeah
four step lyric writing formula baby
use it easy
use it use it
use it hmm amazing
being too vague
is the next mistake that songwriters make
alright why
tell me tell me
tell me tell me
yeah this is big one
we gotta be able to play a music video in our heads
(24:41):
when the song starts
do you remember the term that I used
ah ah
ki ki ki
uh huh ki
ka ki you're
you both kiff kiff
ah cup of coffee kiff
oh yes
OK you were so close
I know it was a kiff cup of coffee
but yeah
we gotta use our imagination
(25:01):
with the words that you're giving us
so if you're being big like vague or just like
not descriptive enough
and getting too stuck on the feelings again
becomes a little boring
becomes a little not as attractive
you're not gonna you know
capture people's attention
cause they're not gonna be able to relate
(25:22):
we wanna be relatable
we wanna be able to see what you're seeing
what you're telling us yes
two things that you brought up here that I'm like
oh yes
I really love this uh
the first thing was getting stuck on the feelings
yeah like not setting the scene at all
just like this is how I feel
this is how I feel this is how I feel
this is how I feel like
(25:42):
okay cool
but who are you like
what is happening what is going on
I have no idea like
you have not picked me up
from the beginning of the story
we are already at the end of it
and I don't know what's happening and I can't follow
so yeah
not just talking about feelings
but other things um
love that thank you for reminding us all of that
and then the other thing is people can't relate right
(26:06):
like if it's too vague
people can't relate and I think
that's a thinking mistake
that a lot of songwriters make is oh
if I am too specific
people are not gonna be able to relate
and I actually believe the more specific it is
the more relatable it becomes
even if the details are not exactly the same in my life
as they are in your song exactly
(26:26):
it still is so much more relatable
because now the imagination is playing the Kopkino
the the movie is playing in our heads
mm hmm exactly
I always think like
when people are like oh
I don't know how to be relatable
I'm like
literally just like
say what you're doing like
describe it and I always go back to driver's license
by Olivia Rodrigo I'm like
(26:48):
she's literally describing getting in a car
the first time she's getting a driver's license
she's driving through a street like
is that not the most mundane thing people do
but for some reason it captures you
cause it takes you back
when you got your driver's license
when you were driving through your friend's house
like
genius yeah
how relatable is that right
(27:08):
and yep
and again it doesn't need to be anything like
mind blowing no
everybody gets their driver's license
and drives a car to their friend's house
you make a song out of it
yep
uh another mistake that I see uh
songwriters make I'm sure you see that too sometimes
is the need to make every line rhyme
(27:30):
hmm are we writing children's songs Lara
oh my god oh
burn baby burn
sometimes I'm like
is this a pop song or is this for a children's TV show
yeah cause if it's so perfect yes
(27:51):
but if it's not
no I sometimes rather not rhyme at all
than rhyme every single line
mm hmm you know
it's just we need a little bit
sure cause it gives a little bit of like
rhythmic flow to makes it more memorable
yeah but it just it
it itches the brain it's good
but we don't need it every freaking line
(28:11):
no and there's so many ways to use a rhyming scheme
you can use a B
a B a yes
a C B
you can make it so different you know
uh and then also
it doesn't always need to be a perfect rhyme either
nope like
it doesn't need to be wall and tall
like those are
those are two words that rhyme perfectly right
(28:34):
wall and tall but it could also just be a near rhyme
I'm sure there's other terms for it too
and then there's like even scores
like you know
when you go to Rhyme Zone
Rhyme Zone is my best friend
and you search for near friend
near right
near friends oh my god
I am living a sad life apparently
okay it's fine
uh
(28:54):
a near rhymes yeah
it gives you a score
if it's a perfect rhyme like wall and tall
that's 100% score right
but if it's a little bit off
you maybe get a a 92% uh
right score
and it doesn't always need to be a perfect rhyme right
no cause again
it's almost cooler if it's not
yeah yeah
it it makes it feel a little children songy
(29:17):
I never thought about it that way
and I'm obsessed yeah
thank you for making that yeah connection
that's lovely you're so welcome
and also um
what we just don't want to happen
like even if you love rhyming
I love rhyming too
I'm very much the kind of person who's like
I like it when it rhymes
we don't want to sacrifice the story that we're telling
(29:40):
just to make sure that line rhymes right
like I do think
and it could also be a yeah
it could also be a spot to get stuck in
if you're too focused on rhyming
and it goes back to one of their earlier um
mistakes like trying for it to be perfect
because it's not rhyming you're losing time
(30:03):
wasting time yeah
losing the momentum because of it
yeah yeah
for sure so yes
rhymes are cool rhymes are important
but don't get stuck on it
don't hyperfixate it on it
and yeah
uh next mistake okay
remember Rachel
how I was talking about how we recorded it together
so uh
(30:23):
in the songwriting for singers course uh
where enrollment is open now if you wanna come join us
enrollment closes on Sunday
limited time come and join us
um but anyways
uh in the course
when we when she was writing
when I was teaching her the whole system and what not
when she was writing
I we
I shared a Google document with her
so I could see what she was typing on her computer
(30:46):
on my computer screen ah
and then every so often she would go
i'mma ah ah ah
this mistake is deleting lyrics
before the song is completely done
please for the love of god
don't ever ever
ever ever do that
because why before I keep going on of this Tangent why
Juliana
(31:07):
sometimes your first idea is the best idea
like the simplest
most you know
human idea is what needs to be there
and you're canceling
before it has the opportunity to be heard
so if you need to make draft 2
draft 3 draft 4
it's better for you to copy your lyrics
and then do that um yeah
just let it exist a little bit before you cancel it
(31:29):
yes like
literally the line that you just deleted
could have been a line in the bridge
or in the second verse or like
or a version of that a variation of that
like please please
please please
please hear us when we say don't delete anything
and it kind of goes into editing as you go again
(31:50):
like don't do that
uh don't judge yourself
I think I don't think that's a mistake
that we have on here
but I think we should add that to the list
add it uh
judging yourself as your writing
I don't know if it's on the list
maybe it'll come but anyways
don't judge yourself as you are writing your song right
like don't say this is good
this is bad just let it be what it is
(32:13):
and then you know
either don't use it or use it and adjust it or whatever
but just don't delete it move it to the side
move it to the bottom of the document
move it wherever you need to move it to
but keep it you never know
it could be something
that you're gonna use in a different song
or in this song but in a different section or yep
whatever
(32:34):
and then you're gonna hate yourself
you're gonna be like oh
what was that thing that I wrote
I'm like oh well
too bad it's gone cause you deleted it
got no one to blame but yourself
keep your notes yes
keep your notes
yes if you wanna be really good with keeping your notes
write it by hand cause you can't delete it
it's in your paper uh huh
(32:54):
I used to write that I wanna go back to doing that
it just feels so so nice to write on paper really
I hate it I might start that again really
we'll see I really don't like
it's so much easier to type things out yeah
but it also gives it a little bit of a a
a different feeling cause you're like
feeling every word out you're like oh hmm
does this work whatever
(33:14):
hmm yeah
I can see that Tangent no
no no no
but I think it's important
cause just because you know
like I don't love doing it
that doesn't mean that that's not the right thing to do
a lot of people love doing it
and it works well for them
yeah so
you know yes
we are teaching you a system
in our songwriting for singers course
but we're teaching you the foundation of the system
and then you adjust it however works best for you
(33:38):
next mistake not having an audio recording of your song
okay this was a little sad realization for me uh
when I was going recently
going through all of my old songs
all of these um uh
lyrics and chord progressions that I
that I wrote and they were all unfinished songs
(34:00):
um not all of them
but most of them were uh
again these were from years and years and years ago
like a decade ago right
and uh
I was like oh yeah
I remember writing that song
but I cannot for the life of me
remember what that verse was like
what it sounded like or like
I would remember parts of it
but not the whole thing and no matter what I do
(34:20):
I just can't remember it now
that doesn't necessarily mean
the song wasn't good in the first place
it could still have been a good song
um but it was 10 years ago when I wrote it
like it's okay to forget it
but if you have the audio recording of it
ah easy not yeah
you're not gonna forget right
or maybe you forget but you can remind yourself
hahaha yeah yeah
(34:40):
and I always like
make multiple recordings of the same song
like especially'cause as singers
melodies will come first most of the time
if I'm just out and about and I'm like oh
this idea is cool I just record it
and then I go home and I'm like
I play it back and then I like OK
start developing it but
I made the mistake of deleting those first recordings
and then I'm like wait
I'm doing it different now
(35:01):
the other way was cooler and now it's gone right
so like just record every single moment of the process
cause you don't know what you're gonna go back to
yes and don't delete
it's a thing don't delete
don't delete your melodies
don't delete your lyrics don't delete anything
just keep keep keep keep keep
um nowadays
you have so much storage space on all of our devices
anyways so like
(35:22):
you're not gonna run out of space um
or then get a drive and then also when it comes to like
I do believe that it's important to have
the final version of your song
the way it is right now
to have a version of that recorded too
um and then save those files somewhere
where everything's in one place
and you don't have to figure out
where did I save this file
(35:42):
to stay organized really it
it helps a lot um
but you can there's different ways
you can go about recording
the final version of your song
you can either just you know
sing into your phone and just go
whatever
and have the phone just like
as a voice memo thing have that as a recording
and that's good enough
for the sake of remembering what your song was
(36:05):
if you want to step up your game a little bit
you can actually learn how to record on a computer
with a Daw a d a W
a digital audio workstation
like logic or Garageband
or Ableton or Pro Tools and what not
and I understand that
for a lot of people who have never done this before
it can feel very very very very
(36:26):
very overwhelming really quickly
and they're like I don't even know where to start
so I'm not even gonna try
um but lucky for you
if you enroll in our songwriting for singers course
in the next couple of days again
door closes on Sunday um
if you enroll you actually get the uh
recording for singers course included
(36:46):
where we're gonna walk you through the whole process
step by step how do you record vocals professionally
just like they would in the studio right
but you can do it from home
and when I say professionally
that just means using a doll
not just your phone
but actually using a microphone and all of that stuff
right
and we're gonna walk you through the entire process
(37:08):
we're even showing you how to edit your vocals too
so that you have a demo where you're like wow
this is like this actually sounds really good haha nice
that's the goal right
and then if you want to you can send it to a producer
and then they can make it sound even better
and if you wanted to you could re record the vocals
but at that point you probably don't even have to
we even look at harmonies and doubles
(37:28):
and add libbing and everything in there
so that's an a
an included bonus if you enroll before Sunday
so go check it out record your stuff
but again for the sake of remembering
just using your phone is is totally fine
but if you want to level it up
knowing how to do it in the quote
unquote professional way
I think it's a very good skill for singers to have
(37:50):
because then that also makes it a lot easier
to create social media content
that actually sounds really good too
just just putting it out there right
like you can
you can use it for different things
not just for your songs anyways
uh huh uh
record your song then
the next mistake that people are making
that songwriters are making
is not following some sort of framework
what happens when we don't follow a framework
(38:12):
mess
mess chaos chaos
writer's block
yeah and not finishing your songs
I think those two are the biggest ones
yes inconsistency
getting out of flow and then just
you can't you can't rely on inspiration only
there you go that's
that's actually the last one on the list
relying on inspiration to write songs
(38:35):
uh if you have both inspiration and a framework
that's that's the sweet spot
right but sometimes when we get into the flow
when we have a framework that we can follow
it gets a lot easier to like
make the inspiration happen
right um uh
and yeah
(38:56):
if you have inspiration
and you have a framework to follow
like you start with the inspiration
and whenever you're getting stuck
you just start using the framework
and then you finish it
right or vice versa
just as long as you have both
you're fine exactly good exactly
you can write all the songs
yes yes yes
and we can teach you this the
the framework
and then you can adjust it to make it work for
(39:17):
for yourself right
like I was doing with Rachel
we actually realized at the end that for her
it would be good and we
I didn't talk about this in the course
but I told it to her when
when I was saying goodbye to her when she left
but I told her like hey
I actually think that if you
if you did step one and two
of the lyric writing formula
(39:37):
before you write your melodies
I think you're going to write better melodies
because then you're already
you already have some sort of idea of what words to use
yeah because again
remember how I said for her
the gibberish worked a lot better when it was lyric
like word like gibberish and not just
but it actually kind
it sounds kind of like actual words
(39:59):
um so yeah
I was like hey
actually try and make that adjustment to the formula
and she was like oh yeah
that's a really good idea
I should do that so that was really helpful for her
we can teach you the framework
but then we can adjust it however
however is best for you uh
and then there's just like
one more mistake that I wrote on our list
and it kind of goes hand in hand
with everything we just said
(40:20):
not finishing their songs
yes right
and it's so easy to just kind of like
not do it like
not finish your song but I promise you
you're gonna feel a lot better
when you actually finish your songs
and yeah
you just make you said this in a previous episode
like just make the choice
to finish it that's
(40:40):
that's what you do even if you're like ah
this song is not gonna be
the best song I've ever written
you still make the choice to finish it right
did I understand that correctly
yeah cause you don't know what it's gonna be
when you go back and listen
and edit and
you know
but you're depriving yourself from a finished product
because you don't know what it's gonna be
so just finish it even if it sucks
(41:01):
and it's just good discipline right
it's just gonna make everything like
it's gonna make finishing the next song easier
yep and
the next song
might be better than the one you're writing right now
so hmm
just finish finish your songs
make it a habit to finish all your songs
um you're
you're gonna you're gonna thank us later okay
oh yeah
those are some of the common mistakes
(41:23):
that we see writers make especially when they're
you know getting started with writing
or they're starting to take it more seriously
um obviously
if we looked at more advanced songwriting techniques
there would the list would be a lot longer
but this is you know
overall getting started or getting back into it or
you know
just wanting to write songs that you actually like
(41:44):
and all of that then that's a
that's a pretty good list
I would say like I said
doors are currently open for our songwriting
for singers course
it's actually a cohort
and the wonderful Juliana Beltran
the beautiful one and only right here
ha ha ha hello
uh she is teaching the cohort
(42:06):
meaning
you're not just signing up for a self guided course
that you're probably never going to go through anyways
because no accountability right
we're like no
no no no no
we actually wanna see this through
we wanna help you
make it easier to make the choice to show up
right because you're
you're in a group with other people
(42:27):
and you have Juliana there
to walk you through everything
so again you're not just signing up for uh
pre recorded videos that you could do whenever you want
but no
it's an eight week cohort where you're getting one
a one on one time in a group format right
but you're getting inside of the group
one on one time with Juliana um
and she'll help you you know
(42:48):
give you feedback on your song
give make recommendations if you're feeling stuck
hey oh
have you tried this have you tried that
I don't know what are you gonna tell people when
when they come in with their songs
well it depends
but I'm gonna be able to
I'll be your tool to get them stuck basically I'll
I can help figure next steps
I can help um
(43:09):
polish and what we do with our students
you know just like
make sure that you have the best version of the song
as you go um
and yeah any questions that you guys might have
on anything related to songwriting
yes the framework
right the system
again we
we keep talking about lack of system leads to blah
(43:29):
blah blah
all these bad things long list of bad things hahaha
um the framework
the system is in the pre recorded videos
right right
so you go through those on your own time
and then once a week
you meet with Juliana in your group
where everybody gets to share what they're working on
um where again
she's gonna guide you through
(43:50):
whatever it is that you need
that you need help with
but you can watch the videos on your own time
and do some homework
and then get feedback on the things that you did
um and of course
you know if you get stuck at any point
we're always here to support you
you have lifetime access to the community
there's a bunch of bonuses
the list is seemingly endless
so now there's also a version
(44:11):
where you do one on one coaching
if you prefer doing one on one coaching over um
over the group cohort highly recommend the group cohort
though because uh
there's some meaningful and like
awesome connections that you can make with other people
when you are doing work in a group
you're also learning so
so much by listening to what other people have written
(44:34):
and them getting feedback on their song
oh my god
you can learn just as much from that
as the feedback that you're getting on your own song
so I truly believe that cohorts like group things
so so
so highly valuable uh
I know it can be scary at first
you're like I have never written a song before
and now you're asking me to share it in the group
(44:55):
like are you kidding me
that is scary but it's
we're all on the same page right
like everybody in the group is trying to learn
and trying to improve and working on this actively
it's not to be like
look at this amazing song that I wrote
it's like no
like how can I make this better
and there's no judgment it's very supportive
you don't have to be afraid
and it just might be the thing that you need
(45:17):
to finally take action and get started
and then you see
it's not that scary it's really not that scary
but anyways check out the link below
if you wanna come and join us in the cohort
we'd love to have you there
algo más Juliana no
see you there so excited to work with you guys
yes we'll see you there
if you have any questions
shoot us an email at support of octave studios dot com
(45:40):
again enrollment closes on Sunday
so strike while the iron is hot
let's do it Alrighty
have well
we'll see you in the next one
bye alright bye
I was thinking
(00:00):
we could just discuss some of these common mistakes
so that you don't have to make those mistakes
the first mistake that I see songwriters make
is they are getting stuck on their chord progressions
chord progressions are really just not that important
at all that's the least important part of songwriting
yet people get stuck with it
(00:21):
another mistake not editing their songs
hmm it's okay to use the same word twice
you can go back to it
and figure out another word for it later
a two way kind of problem or mistake that people make
they either don't edit their songs
or they edit too early
I am so nitpicky when it comes to syllable counts
hmm wanting your song to be perfect from the beginning
(00:43):
just let it be a little bad first
let it suck a little it should be by right of passage
your first song should suck
next mistake you're gonna hate yourself
you're gonna be like oh
what was that thing that I wrote
I'm like oh
well too bad it's gone cause you deleted it
keep your notes
(01:08):
hey Vox Star
and welcome to from singer to artist
I'm Lara Chapman award winning singer and songwriter
turned viral vocal coach and the host of this show
at VoxTape Studios
we help singers from all over the world
level up their voices
by teaching them the three fundamental skills
all singers need technique
awareness and artistry whether you're looking to go pro
(01:29):
or just develop your voice for fun
my team and I are here to help
check the link in the description
to book your first session
or grab some of our other resources
Alrighty are you ready
let's get started
welcome back to our little show
I have Coach Juliana in the studio with me hello
mistakes that songwriters make
(01:49):
we've been working with a lot of different people
from all walks of life on their songwriting
some people that wanna you know
become professional songwriters
write for others or write for themselves
for their artist project
and some people that just wanna write for fun
we've kind of done it all and I feel like there's a
a lot of like common threads throughout
(02:12):
yes haha
when we like
when we look at mistakes that people make or
or whatever um
so I was thinking
we could just discuss some of these common mistakes
so that you don't have to make those mistakes
that's good love it
yeah alright
let's get started mistake numero UNO
what's mistake in Spanish
(02:32):
error oh error
I love it error error yeah
am I is my pronunciation good
error yeah
that's good great
a lot of RRR that RRR yeah
RRR I think
I'm like
trying to think is there's another word for it
but yeah error
uh yeah
error error
mistake I'm trying to think about is failure
(02:53):
it's failure in German oh
fail
failure
fail yeah yeah
but like fail
fail oh fail fail
yes fail
oh I never made that connection
we got a new donkey bridge
we got a new donkey bridge
a donkey bridge the donkey we
we talked about this in another podcast
what a donkey bridge is but anyways okay
(03:15):
it doesn't matter it's an inside joke
it doesn't don't worry
you're not cool enough to know
no I'm just kidding
but it's not it's not
it's really not that serious anyways
let's get into it
okay alright
uh the first mistake that I see songwriters make
is
they are getting stuck on their chord progressions
for way too long or um
(03:37):
if they're producers
and they also know how to produce tracks
they're getting stuck in the production details
before the song is fleshed out
hmm big
big no no right
I'm like let's figure out the whole thing first
and then we can go into the details
(03:58):
it doesn't need to be perfect from the first try
let's get into the details later
let's just flush it all out
like whole structure
and then we can we can work on yeah
on that other stuff once your song is done
you could spend as many hours as you want
on the production but finish it first
yes yes
and also with the core progression too
um I always say
(04:20):
chord progressions are the one thing about songwriting
that you cannot copyright
and the song title
you cannot copyright a song title either
but you can copyright melodies
and you can copyright lyrics
but not chord progressions
because chord progressions are like
the same exactly exactly
uh there's like
(04:40):
a lot of comedians that you know
use the same four or three chord uh
like chord progression
and then they sing all these different songs
to show the audience they're all the same song
but they're not all the same song
because of the lyrics and the melodies
but they would be if we just looked at core progression
so I always say like
core progressions are really just not that important
(05:01):
at all that's the least important part of songwriting
yet people get stuck with it way too quickly
right and it's just like no
no no
no no no
like it doesn't
it doesn't matter and one way that I like to use
to just eliminate that problem all together
especially if you're just getting started
and you're trying to develop a songwriting system
(05:22):
that works well for you is
just remove that aspect
from the songwriting process altogether
and just focus on toplining first
and so top lining in case you don't know what that is
is when you're writing to a track that already exists
maybe you have a producer friend
that made the track for you
or maybe you just
literally went on YouTube and found a track
(05:43):
that's what I do all the time
there's also a lot of beat platforms out there
and so just find a track that you like
and then you're not changing the core progression
or you're not doing any of the production
you're literally just toplining
which is melody and lyrics only
and I think that's a great way to get started
yeah
cause you don't have to focus on all of the elements
(06:03):
just melody and lyrics and you're done
melody and lyrics exactly
cause that's those are the most important parts
not the progression
so don't get stuck on that stuff that doesn't matter
I'm not saying it doesn't matter
but it's not that important
not as much exactly right
um
okay another mistake that uh
songwriters make or aspiring songwriters make
(06:26):
is not editing their songs hmm
yeah yeah yeah yeah
the amount of songs that I have written
and then just forgotten is
is just a little embarrassing
so yeah
go through your song make sure you're
you know listening back
check your syllable counts
what's the rhyming scheme
does it make sense is it a little too cliche
(06:48):
can we make it sound cooler
you're gonna appreciate it at the end
when you do a couple passes through that
and we do that a lot with our students as well
yes I think what I see often with songwriters and I
that's also something that I have to be mindful of
as well when it comes to lyric writing especially uh
they're using the same descriptive word twice
(07:13):
yeah within just a very short period of time
like within the first verse
for example like the word best twice or whatever
right like
just some word they're using it twice
and I'm like well
we could use a different word to say the same thing
and you're automatically gonna like it a lot more
(07:33):
and it sounds a lot more clever
because you're not just saying the same thing
over and over again but in that first run through
like when as you're writing
right in that first draft essentially
it's okay to use the same word twice
you can go back to it and figure out another
another word for it later
um when you are editing your song right
yep but uh I
(07:55):
I just I sometimes think that
if you're trying to edit as you go
you're not gonna finish yeah
you're not gonna finish your song hahaha
so yeah
I think this is like a
a two way kind of problem or mistake that people make
they either don't edit their songs
or they edit too early or both
(08:15):
yeah sometimes as well right
like don't edit as you write
write first after
and edit after yup
cause otherwise you're you're getting out of the flow
we need to stay in flow okay
and then edit later syllable count
love that you're bringing that up
I'm a pop girly and if it is not the same syllables
(08:37):
no no
no no no no
and again you can put in a placeholder where it's like
close enough
but I'm gonna go back to this later
and I'm gonna figure out a better way
of saying the same thing where the syllable count
then also matches whatever I had in the other phrase
haha exactly
I
I am so nitpicky when it comes to syllable counts
hmm yeah
it's a pet peeve of mine if it's not right
(08:59):
cause then it's not pop anymore
I'm not saying that it you know
you have to write pop music to be a songwriter
you can write whatever you want
but it's especially important in pop especially
yeah uh
anyways next mistake number three
wanting your song to be perfect from the beginning
that's just pretty much what we just talked about right
you're editing as you go don't edit as you go
(09:22):
yeah and I think it's important to uh
just let it be a little bad
first let it suck a little
cause then you can go back and edit
exactly so just write
just get the song out
and then you can perfect as you go
or make better as you go
a song is never gonna be perfect
(09:44):
like especially if you're a creator
it's never gonna be perfect
like you're always gonna find something that you don't
you're not loving right
so just be nicer to yourself
yeah and I also think uh
you know especially if you're about to release a song
or you're working on a song to release it
I see so many people that just keep like
(10:05):
tweaking things
especially when it comes to the production
I'm like stop touching it and just release it
pretty please yeah
thank you very much hahaha
um but yeah
and also if you're very new to the songwriting process
it's okay if your first song that you're writing
even after editing it's still not great hahaha it's
(10:28):
it should be by Rider Passage
your first song should suck yeah
or at least not be incredible
yeah and I think we
and if it is I
I hate you yes
yes very much so
oh my gosh like jealous
OK whatever
but no I
I totally agree with you uh
let it let it
let it suck
(10:48):
and allow yourself to not be perfect from the first try
it's just not how it works
like that's not what we expect
someone else like
out of someone else
when they're doing something for the first time
at least we shouldn't like
we shouldn't expect
for someone who has never washed the dishes hahaha
and never seen anyone else wash the dishes
(11:10):
to perfectly wash the dishes
yeah um
that's a stupid example
but I can't think of anything else right now
makes total sense you get better as you do it
that's just how it works I mean
babies are the perfect example for it
uh huh babies don't like the first step they take
and now boom
they're walking
and they're amazing and super stable on their feet
like no
(11:30):
they fall all the time but guess what
they get up and try again and again and again and again
and then we're humans and we can walk Yay
I'm not that babies aren't humans
but we're older and we can walk right
so anyways you get the picture
you get the picture uh okay
moving on to melody specific stuff
(11:51):
the next mistake that I see a lot of songwriters make
is that they are making the melodies match the lyrics
instead of the lyrics matching the melodies
oh so I think it's a little bit of both
like you need to do a little bit of both
um but what I see a lot of songwriters do
(12:14):
is they write their lyrics first
and then they figure out the melodies
to get those lyrics out exactly the way they are
and are not willing to make changes to their lyrics
to make the melodies flow better
and this is then what sometimes
uh leads to
like inconsistency in the melodies right
(12:34):
going back to patterns
this is something we've talked about in other episodes
as well
patterns are very important
so what makes something catchy
and patterns in the melody right
not patterns in the lyrics
nobody's gonna remember that
but patterns in your melody
and so I always encourage people to unless
you know
(12:55):
inspiration strikes and the lyrics are just flowing out
right but usually
I encourage people to write the melody first
then the lyrics
so that we can make the lyrics match the melody
and follow that perfect pattern
um rather than the other way around
now we have to be careful with this
because the lyrics and the melody
(13:16):
they need to work together
otherwise what can happen is uh
I hear this all the time where people like
mispronounce or like
mistress words because of the melody
like because of how it's like
written and it's like
hold on this doesn't work
or if it's done on purpose
like that's fine
it can it can happen every so often where
(13:36):
you know you're saying yeah
there's exceptions yeah
like you're saying insomnia instead of insomnia
or insomnia instead of insomnia right
like just a miss stress in the word
like that's something that's very common again
because the editing process is not flowing
rights of the song Am I Making Sense
(13:59):
yeah yeah
I think it's a lot easier
to just get the bones of the melody going
before you set your heart on lyrics
like you can have ideas for each section and all that
like especially
if you're going through a step by step formula
(14:20):
you should have an idea
of what's gonna happen in that verse
but um yeah
don't get married to um
what a line is gonna sound like or read like
cause they should work cohesively
yes yes
it needs to work together
and now obviously
it's amazing when you're you know
(14:41):
more advanced at songwriting
and melodies and lyrics flow out of you
at the same time like wow
don't we love when that happens
doesn't happen that often though
like even for pro writers
I don't think it happens that often
yeah but anyways
and the reason why I always focus so much on melodies
like make the melodies work first
(15:02):
and then figure out the lyrics
like adjust
be more willing to adjust the lyrics
than to adjust the melody again
within reason always within reason
but
the reason why I'm always focusing on melody so much
is because melody is king
and I know
I say that in pretty much every single video
that you've seen on songwriting from me
but it truly is the case melody is more important
(15:23):
it's what people are gonna remember
what's gonna get stuck in their heads
so it's okay to make compromises for your lyrics
um it's also okay to make compromises in your melodies
like again
everything within reason but it just
it has to make sense it has to flow
it has to flow and it has to work together
yeah I was working with Rachel um
(15:45):
she's a local local here to my area
uh performer
and she's never enjoyed songwriting
she's like
I feel like it's something I should learn how to do
but I I just don't feel like I can express myself well
so I just really don't enjoy the process
so we
we just launched our songwriting for singers cohort and
uh if you haven't signed up for it yet
(16:06):
you should totally check out what it is
and we can talk more about it later too
but
she's the one that I walked through our entire course
um like
at our entire process and I filmed her and me like
writing a song she was writing
and I was just you know
telling her this is what we need to do
and then she was writing and I was just kind of like
(16:27):
guiding her through it and so she was creating melodies
but she was creating so
like just how we do in our little framework
right she
I told her create a melody
she created a melody uh
but she created melodies with gibberish
which is always what I recommend
right not
like already trying to make up lyrics as you go
but then we quickly realized that
(16:47):
if she creates gibberish melodies
that sound like they could be words
and sometimes are even like random words in there
it makes it so much easier then
for her to create lyrics that work with those melodies
even if we completely change the lyrics
but it feels more singable to her
(17:09):
more natural to her
even though the lyrics absolutely don't make any sense
it's still gibberish right
um but it
it feels more like yes
now I can put lyrics to this and they're not just notes
yeah cause
singers can sometimes get carried away a little bit
right like
if you're a really good singer
which Rachel is a fantastic singer
if you're a really good singer
you're all about melodies
(17:29):
and you start creating crazy melodies
and then
they're not really singable with lyrics anymore
right right
um so we had that little breakthrough
and I love that that happened on camera
and that we captured it
nice so yeah it's
it's in the course in our songwriting for
for singers course and by the way
when we say songwriting for singers
it's not just for singers
(17:51):
it's just for anybody that um
wants to learn right
how to write a song
and not rely on instruments or music theory
we just make it way way way
way way simple
and we've just worked with a lot of singers
because we're vocal coaches
besides being songwriting coaches
and a lot of the students that we've worked with
they don't play instruments
and so that's why we called it songwriting for singers
(18:11):
but you don't have to identify as a singer
to do the course and get a lot out of it but anyways
little Tangent there but haha
it's important melodies are important
it matches yeah
it matches with the next mistake
what is the next mistake I haven't even read along yet
uh make the writing melodies that are not singable
there you go yeah
writing melodies that are not singable
(18:31):
ta da that's the next mistake
and we just solved that problem perfect yeah
anything else that we need to add to that
just keep it simple
especially if you're writing for the first time
or you're very new don't overwork
don't over sing don't overwrite
just keep it simple if it's too simple
you can go back and edit it and make it cooler
but I always try and simplify cause I was very known
(18:56):
especially in school
cause I was listening to jazz and new soul
and I was like I need to make everything sound cool
and some of my friends were like
what if you simplify that
like what do you mean
yes yes
and that's cool like
that's really cool for a specific style
but you know
if you're trying to appeal to the masses
(19:16):
there you go yep
and we we talked about this in
in other episodes as well
but um
you know we
we said you have to remember that your average listener
your average audience member is not trained in music
yep so make it simple so that they can follow along
they're not professionals at this right
(19:38):
yep um
and make it singable yes
simple and singable
next mistake that songwriters are making
is make the verse and the chorus sound too similar
mm hmm mm hmm
mm hmm mm hmm
yep yep
we want contrast people
we need contrast cause if it's the same thing
guess what people will do next
(20:00):
because it gets boring it's
it's kind of like the opposite of what we just said
like make it simple right
hahaha right
it could still be simple but different hahaha
simple but different yes
yeah um Jason
I was working with Jason a couple years ago as well
and a couple months ago
he then reached out to me and he's like hey
I'm recording the song in the studio
can you help me uh
(20:21):
like vocally like
figure out how to do the vocal delivery of the song
and I was listening to the song
and we were working on it like yeah
this is great this is great
this is great
and then we got to the chorus and I was like
Jason
your melody is the same in your chorus
as it is in the verse
don't you remember what we did three years ago
(20:43):
and you know sometimes it's right for the song
because that's what you want it to be
and you know what
that's for me good enough reason
if that's what you love
and you just don't want to change anything about it
because you're so in love with it
cool yeah
do what lights up your heart baby
like whatever you wanna do
right a but or
(21:04):
and if we wanna appeal to the masses
we gotta follow some rules
um but anyways
he was like oh
I didn't even notice and so we
we dissected it we looked at it
and I was like okay
okay okay okay
see and then yup
you know tiny
tiny little tweaks makes it different uh
still similar but different enough to be like
and now we're in a new song section
(21:25):
yeah cause Jason is one of those people
he's very very Musically talented
um just has a lot of knowledge around music
he's an incredible piano player
uh does his own productions
major Michael Jackson fan
right so like
he just knows a lot about music
and this is an issue that we see then
a lot with people that are very Musically trained
(21:49):
is that they overcomplicated um
or get stuck in creating the contrast
in the production only and not with your songwriting
so this is kind of like
going back to two mistakes
that we already were talking about previously
to this mistake but anyways
just wanted to mention that yeah
that's good that's a good reminder
(22:10):
yeah uh contrast
we need contrast
songwriting is all about repetition and contrast
and finding the balance between the two love
next mistake
not being clear of the overall topic of the song
before starting to write oh so
so guilty of doing that
before I develop my four step lyric writing formula
(22:30):
I did this all the time
and I would never be able to finish a song
I started a million songs
and I still have those documents where I'm like OK
that's another unfinished song
another unfinished song another unfinished song
another unfinished song I'm like
god damn it girl
what were you doing
that's why we have the force of lyric writing formula
so that you know how you feel about it
before you start writing yeah yeah
(22:53):
you gotta know your topic
you gotta know your storyline
you gotta know what happens in each section
before you sit down and write it
otherwise what happens
or what do we run the chances of happening
if we don't do that
you'll get stuck you won't have a second verse
yes the story like
it's like oh
what now you're gonna get a little bit of blockage
(23:16):
um or you keep saying the same thing yeah
you're gonna repeat yourself
or it tendencies into another storyline
and people are gonna be like
what is this about you know
yes we gotta have consistency
and again if we're appealing for the masses
this is right yes
people need to understand what you're singing about
this was a this was an issue
I think I think that was Kevin
(23:38):
if I remember correctly uh
he put three different songs in one song
like lyrically like storytelling wise
not on purpose but I was like
you do know you could write three
completely different songs about this right
like
you don't need to pack it all into one song
I think it was Kevin if I remember correctly
(23:58):
but either way somebody did that
um yeah
a lot of people do that
yeah and um
if you get clear on what goes in each section
how you really feel about it
and blah blah blah blah
that problem is not gonna happen
so no writer's block no multiple songs in one song
no storyline that doesn't make sense
or no storyline period um
(24:19):
and no repeating yourself over and over and over again
it solves a lot of problems
oh yeah oh yeah
four step lyric writing formula baby
use it easy
use it use it
use it hmm amazing
being too vague
is the next mistake that songwriters make
alright why
tell me tell me
tell me tell me
yeah this is big one
we gotta be able to play a music video in our heads
(24:41):
when the song starts
do you remember the term that I used
ah ah
ki ki ki
uh huh ki
ka ki you're
you both kiff kiff
ah cup of coffee kiff
oh yes
OK you were so close
I know it was a kiff cup of coffee
but yeah
we gotta use our imagination
(25:01):
with the words that you're giving us
so if you're being big like vague or just like
not descriptive enough
and getting too stuck on the feelings again
becomes a little boring
becomes a little not as attractive
you're not gonna you know
capture people's attention
cause they're not gonna be able to relate
(25:22):
we wanna be relatable
we wanna be able to see what you're seeing
what you're telling us yes
two things that you brought up here that I'm like
oh yes
I really love this uh
the first thing was getting stuck on the feelings
yeah like not setting the scene at all
just like this is how I feel
this is how I feel this is how I feel
this is how I feel like
(25:42):
okay cool
but who are you like
what is happening what is going on
I have no idea like
you have not picked me up
from the beginning of the story
we are already at the end of it
and I don't know what's happening and I can't follow
so yeah
not just talking about feelings
but other things um
love that thank you for reminding us all of that
and then the other thing is people can't relate right
(26:06):
like if it's too vague
people can't relate and I think
that's a thinking mistake
that a lot of songwriters make is oh
if I am too specific
people are not gonna be able to relate
and I actually believe the more specific it is
the more relatable it becomes
even if the details are not exactly the same in my life
as they are in your song exactly
(26:26):
it still is so much more relatable
because now the imagination is playing the Kopkino
the the movie is playing in our heads
mm hmm exactly
I always think like
when people are like oh
I don't know how to be relatable
I'm like
literally just like
say what you're doing like
describe it and I always go back to driver's license
by Olivia Rodrigo I'm like
(26:48):
she's literally describing getting in a car
the first time she's getting a driver's license
she's driving through a street like
is that not the most mundane thing people do
but for some reason it captures you
cause it takes you back
when you got your driver's license
when you were driving through your friend's house
like
genius yeah
how relatable is that right
(27:08):
and yep
and again it doesn't need to be anything like
mind blowing no
everybody gets their driver's license
and drives a car to their friend's house
you make a song out of it
yep
uh another mistake that I see uh
songwriters make I'm sure you see that too sometimes
is the need to make every line rhyme
(27:30):
hmm are we writing children's songs Lara
oh my god oh
burn baby burn
sometimes I'm like
is this a pop song or is this for a children's TV show
yeah cause if it's so perfect yes
(27:51):
but if it's not
no I sometimes rather not rhyme at all
than rhyme every single line
mm hmm you know
it's just we need a little bit
sure cause it gives a little bit of like
rhythmic flow to makes it more memorable
yeah but it just it
it itches the brain it's good
but we don't need it every freaking line
(28:11):
no and there's so many ways to use a rhyming scheme
you can use a B
a B a yes
a C B
you can make it so different you know
uh and then also
it doesn't always need to be a perfect rhyme either
nope like
it doesn't need to be wall and tall
like those are
those are two words that rhyme perfectly right
(28:34):
wall and tall but it could also just be a near rhyme
I'm sure there's other terms for it too
and then there's like even scores
like you know
when you go to Rhyme Zone
Rhyme Zone is my best friend
and you search for near friend
near right
near friends oh my god
I am living a sad life apparently
okay it's fine
uh
(28:54):
a near rhymes yeah
it gives you a score
if it's a perfect rhyme like wall and tall
that's 100% score right
but if it's a little bit off
you maybe get a a 92% uh
right score
and it doesn't always need to be a perfect rhyme right
no cause again
it's almost cooler if it's not
yeah yeah
it it makes it feel a little children songy
(29:17):
I never thought about it that way
and I'm obsessed yeah
thank you for making that yeah connection
that's lovely you're so welcome
and also um
what we just don't want to happen
like even if you love rhyming
I love rhyming too
I'm very much the kind of person who's like
I like it when it rhymes
we don't want to sacrifice the story that we're telling
(29:40):
just to make sure that line rhymes right
like I do think
and it could also be a yeah
it could also be a spot to get stuck in
if you're too focused on rhyming
and it goes back to one of their earlier um
mistakes like trying for it to be perfect
because it's not rhyming you're losing time
(30:03):
wasting time yeah
losing the momentum because of it
yeah yeah
for sure so yes
rhymes are cool rhymes are important
but don't get stuck on it
don't hyperfixate it on it
and yeah
uh next mistake okay
remember Rachel
how I was talking about how we recorded it together
so uh
(30:23):
in the songwriting for singers course uh
where enrollment is open now if you wanna come join us
enrollment closes on Sunday
limited time come and join us
um but anyways
uh in the course
when we when she was writing
when I was teaching her the whole system and what not
when she was writing
I we
I shared a Google document with her
so I could see what she was typing on her computer
(30:46):
on my computer screen ah
and then every so often she would go
i'mma ah ah ah
this mistake is deleting lyrics
before the song is completely done
please for the love of god
don't ever ever
ever ever do that
because why before I keep going on of this Tangent why
Juliana
(31:07):
sometimes your first idea is the best idea
like the simplest
most you know
human idea is what needs to be there
and you're canceling
before it has the opportunity to be heard
so if you need to make draft 2
draft 3 draft 4
it's better for you to copy your lyrics
and then do that um yeah
just let it exist a little bit before you cancel it
(31:29):
yes like
literally the line that you just deleted
could have been a line in the bridge
or in the second verse or like
or a version of that a variation of that
like please please
please please
please hear us when we say don't delete anything
and it kind of goes into editing as you go again
(31:50):
like don't do that
uh don't judge yourself
I think I don't think that's a mistake
that we have on here
but I think we should add that to the list
add it uh
judging yourself as your writing
I don't know if it's on the list
maybe it'll come but anyways
don't judge yourself as you are writing your song right
like don't say this is good
this is bad just let it be what it is
(32:13):
and then you know
either don't use it or use it and adjust it or whatever
but just don't delete it move it to the side
move it to the bottom of the document
move it wherever you need to move it to
but keep it you never know
it could be something
that you're gonna use in a different song
or in this song but in a different section or yep
whatever
(32:34):
and then you're gonna hate yourself
you're gonna be like oh
what was that thing that I wrote
I'm like oh well
too bad it's gone cause you deleted it
got no one to blame but yourself
keep your notes yes
keep your notes
yes if you wanna be really good with keeping your notes
write it by hand cause you can't delete it
it's in your paper uh huh
(32:54):
I used to write that I wanna go back to doing that
it just feels so so nice to write on paper really
I hate it I might start that again really
we'll see I really don't like
it's so much easier to type things out yeah
but it also gives it a little bit of a a
a different feeling cause you're like
feeling every word out you're like oh hmm
does this work whatever
(33:14):
hmm yeah
I can see that Tangent no
no no no
but I think it's important
cause just because you know
like I don't love doing it
that doesn't mean that that's not the right thing to do
a lot of people love doing it
and it works well for them
yeah so
you know yes
we are teaching you a system
in our songwriting for singers course
but we're teaching you the foundation of the system
and then you adjust it however works best for you
(33:38):
next mistake not having an audio recording of your song
okay this was a little sad realization for me uh
when I was going recently
going through all of my old songs
all of these um uh
lyrics and chord progressions that I
that I wrote and they were all unfinished songs
(34:00):
um not all of them
but most of them were uh
again these were from years and years and years ago
like a decade ago right
and uh
I was like oh yeah
I remember writing that song
but I cannot for the life of me
remember what that verse was like
what it sounded like or like
I would remember parts of it
but not the whole thing and no matter what I do
(34:20):
I just can't remember it now
that doesn't necessarily mean
the song wasn't good in the first place
it could still have been a good song
um but it was 10 years ago when I wrote it
like it's okay to forget it
but if you have the audio recording of it
ah easy not yeah
you're not gonna forget right
or maybe you forget but you can remind yourself
hahaha yeah yeah
(34:40):
and I always like
make multiple recordings of the same song
like especially'cause as singers
melodies will come first most of the time
if I'm just out and about and I'm like oh
this idea is cool I just record it
and then I go home and I'm like
I play it back and then I like OK
start developing it but
I made the mistake of deleting those first recordings
and then I'm like wait
I'm doing it different now
(35:01):
the other way was cooler and now it's gone right
so like just record every single moment of the process
cause you don't know what you're gonna go back to
yes and don't delete
it's a thing don't delete
don't delete your melodies
don't delete your lyrics don't delete anything
just keep keep keep keep keep
um nowadays
you have so much storage space on all of our devices
anyways so like
(35:22):
you're not gonna run out of space um
or then get a drive and then also when it comes to like
I do believe that it's important to have
the final version of your song
the way it is right now
to have a version of that recorded too
um and then save those files somewhere
where everything's in one place
and you don't have to figure out
where did I save this file
(35:42):
to stay organized really it
it helps a lot um
but you can there's different ways
you can go about recording
the final version of your song
you can either just you know
sing into your phone and just go
whatever
and have the phone just like
as a voice memo thing have that as a recording
and that's good enough
for the sake of remembering what your song was
(36:05):
if you want to step up your game a little bit
you can actually learn how to record on a computer
with a Daw a d a W
a digital audio workstation
like logic or Garageband
or Ableton or Pro Tools and what not
and I understand that
for a lot of people who have never done this before
it can feel very very very very
(36:26):
very overwhelming really quickly
and they're like I don't even know where to start
so I'm not even gonna try
um but lucky for you
if you enroll in our songwriting for singers course
in the next couple of days again
door closes on Sunday um
if you enroll you actually get the uh
recording for singers course included
(36:46):
where we're gonna walk you through the whole process
step by step how do you record vocals professionally
just like they would in the studio right
but you can do it from home
and when I say professionally
that just means using a doll
not just your phone
but actually using a microphone and all of that stuff
right
and we're gonna walk you through the entire process
(37:08):
we're even showing you how to edit your vocals too
so that you have a demo where you're like wow
this is like this actually sounds really good haha nice
that's the goal right
and then if you want to you can send it to a producer
and then they can make it sound even better
and if you wanted to you could re record the vocals
but at that point you probably don't even have to
we even look at harmonies and doubles
(37:28):
and add libbing and everything in there
so that's an a
an included bonus if you enroll before Sunday
so go check it out record your stuff
but again for the sake of remembering
just using your phone is is totally fine
but if you want to level it up
knowing how to do it in the quote
unquote professional way
I think it's a very good skill for singers to have
(37:50):
because then that also makes it a lot easier
to create social media content
that actually sounds really good too
just just putting it out there right
like you can
you can use it for different things
not just for your songs anyways
uh huh uh
record your song then
the next mistake that people are making
that songwriters are making
is not following some sort of framework
what happens when we don't follow a framework
(38:12):
mess
mess chaos chaos
writer's block
yeah and not finishing your songs
I think those two are the biggest ones
yes inconsistency
getting out of flow and then just
you can't you can't rely on inspiration only
there you go that's
that's actually the last one on the list
relying on inspiration to write songs
(38:35):
uh if you have both inspiration and a framework
that's that's the sweet spot
right but sometimes when we get into the flow
when we have a framework that we can follow
it gets a lot easier to like
make the inspiration happen
right um uh
and yeah
(38:56):
if you have inspiration
and you have a framework to follow
like you start with the inspiration
and whenever you're getting stuck
you just start using the framework
and then you finish it
right or vice versa
just as long as you have both
you're fine exactly good exactly
you can write all the songs
yes yes yes
and we can teach you this the
the framework
and then you can adjust it to make it work for
(39:17):
for yourself right
like I was doing with Rachel
we actually realized at the end that for her
it would be good and we
I didn't talk about this in the course
but I told it to her when
when I was saying goodbye to her when she left
but I told her like hey
I actually think that if you
if you did step one and two
of the lyric writing formula
(39:37):
before you write your melodies
I think you're going to write better melodies
because then you're already
you already have some sort of idea of what words to use
yeah because again
remember how I said for her
the gibberish worked a lot better when it was lyric
like word like gibberish and not just
but it actually kind
it sounds kind of like actual words
(39:59):
um so yeah
I was like hey
actually try and make that adjustment to the formula
and she was like oh yeah
that's a really good idea
I should do that so that was really helpful for her
we can teach you the framework
but then we can adjust it however
however is best for you uh
and then there's just like
one more mistake that I wrote on our list
and it kind of goes hand in hand
with everything we just said
(40:20):
not finishing their songs
yes right
and it's so easy to just kind of like
not do it like
not finish your song but I promise you
you're gonna feel a lot better
when you actually finish your songs
and yeah
you just make you said this in a previous episode
like just make the choice
to finish it that's
(40:40):
that's what you do even if you're like ah
this song is not gonna be
the best song I've ever written
you still make the choice to finish it right
did I understand that correctly
yeah cause you don't know what it's gonna be
when you go back and listen
and edit and
you know
but you're depriving yourself from a finished product
because you don't know what it's gonna be
so just finish it even if it sucks
(41:01):
and it's just good discipline right
it's just gonna make everything like
it's gonna make finishing the next song easier
yep and
the next song
might be better than the one you're writing right now
so hmm
just finish finish your songs
make it a habit to finish all your songs
um you're
you're gonna you're gonna thank us later okay
oh yeah
those are some of the common mistakes
(41:23):
that we see writers make especially when they're
you know getting started with writing
or they're starting to take it more seriously
um obviously
if we looked at more advanced songwriting techniques
there would the list would be a lot longer
but this is you know
overall getting started or getting back into it or
you know
just wanting to write songs that you actually like
(41:44):
and all of that then that's a
that's a pretty good list
I would say like I said
doors are currently open for our songwriting
for singers course
it's actually a cohort
and the wonderful Juliana Beltran
the beautiful one and only right here
ha ha ha hello
uh she is teaching the cohort
(42:06):
meaning
you're not just signing up for a self guided course
that you're probably never going to go through anyways
because no accountability right
we're like no
no no no no
we actually wanna see this through
we wanna help you
make it easier to make the choice to show up
right because you're
you're in a group with other people
(42:27):
and you have Juliana there
to walk you through everything
so again you're not just signing up for uh
pre recorded videos that you could do whenever you want
but no
it's an eight week cohort where you're getting one
a one on one time in a group format right
but you're getting inside of the group
one on one time with Juliana um
and she'll help you you know
(42:48):
give you feedback on your song
give make recommendations if you're feeling stuck
hey oh
have you tried this have you tried that
I don't know what are you gonna tell people when
when they come in with their songs
well it depends
but I'm gonna be able to
I'll be your tool to get them stuck basically I'll
I can help figure next steps
I can help um
(43:09):
polish and what we do with our students
you know just like
make sure that you have the best version of the song
as you go um
and yeah any questions that you guys might have
on anything related to songwriting
yes the framework
right the system
again we
we keep talking about lack of system leads to blah
(43:29):
blah blah
all these bad things long list of bad things hahaha
um the framework
the system is in the pre recorded videos
right right
so you go through those on your own time
and then once a week
you meet with Juliana in your group
where everybody gets to share what they're working on
um where again
she's gonna guide you through
(43:50):
whatever it is that you need
that you need help with
but you can watch the videos on your own time
and do some homework
and then get feedback on the things that you did
um and of course
you know if you get stuck at any point
we're always here to support you
you have lifetime access to the community
there's a bunch of bonuses
the list is seemingly endless
so now there's also a version
(44:11):
where you do one on one coaching
if you prefer doing one on one coaching over um
over the group cohort highly recommend the group cohort
though because uh
there's some meaningful and like
awesome connections that you can make with other people
when you are doing work in a group
you're also learning so
so much by listening to what other people have written
(44:34):
and them getting feedback on their song
oh my god
you can learn just as much from that
as the feedback that you're getting on your own song
so I truly believe that cohorts like group things
so so
so highly valuable uh
I know it can be scary at first
you're like I have never written a song before
and now you're asking me to share it in the group
(44:55):
like are you kidding me
that is scary but it's
we're all on the same page right
like everybody in the group is trying to learn
and trying to improve and working on this actively
it's not to be like
look at this amazing song that I wrote
it's like no
like how can I make this better
and there's no judgment it's very supportive
you don't have to be afraid
and it just might be the thing that you need
(45:17):
to finally take action and get started
and then you see
it's not that scary it's really not that scary
but anyways check out the link below
if you wanna come and join us in the cohort
we'd love to have you there
algo más Juliana no
see you there so excited to work with you guys
yes we'll see you there
if you have any questions
shoot us an email at support of octave studios dot com
(45:40):
again enrollment closes on Sunday
so strike while the iron is hot
let's do it Alrighty
have well
we'll see you in the next one
bye alright bye
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