Studio Session: Letting Go of Perfection & Making Art Anyway With Verne Fritz

Verne isn’t your typical musician. He doesn’t wait for perfect gear, a perfect plan, or perfect conditions—he just starts creating. In this episode, we talk about his experimental approach to music-making, how he learned to bend MIDI to his will, and why perfectionism is the enemy of progress.

He walked us through the process behind his ambient work, how he uses trial-and-error (instead of tutorials), and why art always comes before polish. Spoiler: it doesn’t matter if your setup is messy—what matters is that you’re doing the thing.

📍Mentioned Resource: @middleclassbassplayer

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👉 Don’t know what your voice needs to improve? Get a vocal evaluation from our professional coaches here: https://lessons.voxtapestudios.com/vocal-evaluation

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
is there something where you like

(00:01):
I can I can relate to this
maybe it's not a place
but maybe it's a person that you keep coming back to
sure or
or your instrument right right
like it can be it can be anything where like
I can make this feel like it fits me

(01:04):
pockets full of cane
okay how was that good
I can drop into that pretty
in fact it's kind of one of those things that
I feel like I'm good at you know
people say oh
I get nervous before I go on stage or yeah
nervous before shows
I don't have that like oh
I'm nervous it has to be a really big deal

(01:28):
hey Vox Star and welcome to from singer to artist
I'm Lara Chapman award winning singer and songwriter
turned viral vocal coach and the host of this show
at VoxTape Studios
we help singers from all over the world
level up their voices
by teaching them the 3 fundamental skills
all singers need technique
awareness and artistry whether you're looking to go pro

(01:49):
or just develop your voice for fun
my team and I are here to help
check the link in the description
to book your first session
or grab some of our other resources
Alrighty are you ready
let's get started
today we are doing some more singing
my friends
and with me in my little home studio
I have Verne Fritz hello
hi how are you doing great

(02:10):
how are you awesome as usual
yes you look great
thank you it's been a while since I've seen you
so happy to see you what would you say 5 years now
probably you know
almost four and a half probably
so yeah we were just talking about
we did a pot like one for your podcast
we did an episode but that was virtual because
you know it was in the height of Covid
so yeah but like in person

(02:31):
it's been like good five six years
something like that oh my gosh um
I'm excited that
to have you here because we go back a little bit
and how I met you was through an open mic
correct and that was with books and brews
and I was there to the first time I was there
I was just observing and I didn't sing cause I was like

(02:53):
I'm gonna check this out see what this feels like
and you were obviously there
cause you were kind of like
I think I was probably hosting at that point once yes
yes you were hosting all the open mics
um and you did their booking as well
so the second time
I actually went and sang and I brought my friend Yasmin
we were singing that's right
a duet right
exactly exactly
so um
we were singing a little bit together

(03:14):
I was singing a little bit of alone and you know
she didn't really stay here
she left and so you were like
hey lard you wanna like come and play
I wanna book you yeah
exactly and I was like
oh my God that's how you get into the industry
yeah I love it
so we met through the open mic
you were hosting
and you were their booking agent as well
then you started booking me for these shows and then

(03:35):
you know
the relationship just kind of evolved from there right
I had a chance to play on TV and I was like
I need a little help
because I don't want it to be just me with my piano
playing chords how can we make this sound cool
sure so you brought
you had a good time yeah
that was fun yeah
that was really cool that was cool
so you played you said baritone

(03:56):
I played a baritone guitar
yeah I played a electric baritone
I
cause I brought an amp and pedals and made it sound fun
and yeah yeah yeah
yeah and we had some tracks
and you helped me figure all of that out
because I literally didn't know anything about anything
and you're much more of the techy kind of guy
and I was like oh
I appreciate this so much
um and then Covid

(04:16):
yeah and then live music was kind of a thing
not anymore and so I was like okay
and then I went vocal coaching full time
and you're a tattoo artist as well
I'm a tattoo artist that's my day job
you know that's what I do
that's what I do for a you know
rent money yes
yes most of the time
yeah and you're a multi instrumentalist
and I play a little bit of everything

(04:36):
yep I play a little
I mean I'm a bass player in my soul
okay that's what I went
I went to college to be a tuba player actually
okay tuba was no
euphonium was my major which is tenor tuba
and most people when I say oh
I was a euphonium major yeah
kids if you wanna get into
a really good music school
play a really weird instrument
because they don't you know
cause they only have a few

(04:57):
they only get a few of those
yes and euphoniums
one of those where it's like oh
I think that at the time when I was at IU
I think there were you know
they said oh
there were 16 violinists and euphonium players
there were six of us wow
so but
they kind of
need them to fill out some of the orchestral things
yeah but it's a
it's an oddball instrument and nobody really plays it

(05:18):
uh huh we always joked
if you've ever seen the classically trained musicians
notorious will have the what they call it
the excerpt book and so if you like
if you're a violinist
there's a book that's just all the standards for violin
oh yeah yeah
oh
here's the first chair part for this and this and this
yeah there's a euphonium book for that as well
OK it's one piece

(05:38):
it's a solo section from the Rimsky
Korsakov arrangement of Moussorgsky's Pictures
at an exhibition okay
it's the only euphonium X
excerpt that exists in the orchestral world
so of course that's the one
you know
you learn that and then you wait until they play it
yeah and then
one of the six people gets to jump in and play it

(06:01):
that is I never did get to play it in public
but yeah I was like
oh it never came up when I was a student there
so yeah okay
I never got to play the piece
but yeah but yeah
playing playing tuba through high school and then being
you know I started electric bass in the jazz band
and stuff like that yeah
so bass playing has always been my yeah
my heart and soul I love the low end and I like the

(06:22):
yeah freedom that the playing bass gives you
you know yeah
especially in a cover band
you know a lot of times
guitar player has to play that guitar part
I think bass player can kind of get away with yeah
just kind of as long as you're holding it down
and playing the right root note
when it's appropriate yeah
yeah yeah
unless there's something very specific you need to do
bass players like a baseline or something yeah
bass players can pretty much just play what they want

(06:43):
and yeah gives me that nice freedom
so I've always loved being a bass player okay
that's awesome see
for me you were always the guitarist because right
well you know
that's what I saw you do most of the time
and a lot of stuff that I've done
when I first came to India
I was playing more guitar and I kind of like I did that
I'm gonna get some baritone
you know
like I was just nudging myself back towards bass yeah

(07:03):
yeah I did that with Meg as well
Meg Martin um
when I first started playing with her
I was playing guitar uh huh
in fact the first almost year I think I played guitar
okay we did a little tour the two of us where um
I had bought an acoustic baritone
which is a really interesting like midground
she was at the time playing baritone ukulele yeah

(07:25):
so the the match of having this baritone ukulele
which is really just guitar
without the lowest two strings okay
same tuning yeah
and then baritone guitar
acoustic one being 1/5 lower down at a
it just fills in that gap where it's like
oh that
I have the lowest note on that
baritone acoustic is the low a from a bass

(07:48):
so I'm really only a fifth
above what the lowest possible base note is yeah
so I've got the ability to play that almost base line
and fill it up yeah
but because it's also in that mid ground
I can play chords as well and kind of have that oh
I can just really support that little ukulele sound
that seems like it wouldn't be enough

(08:09):
but it really is when you have it crossed over into
yeah like the range
it fits perfectly
and then her voice sat like kind of right in between OK
cool and so
is this nice little spot where she had like
kind of the twinkly little yeah
you her voice next
and then this wide ranging guitar that
has got enough low end to support everything
you know this is something a lot of people don't really

(08:30):
think about when it comes to like
the frequencies yeah right
like we we need a little bit of a balance
cause you know
if you're like down here and you're singing
and you're just not like
all the instruments are down here too
it's like oh
we're kind of off balance here a little bit
we need a fuller picture
and you can create a fuller picture
with just two instruments
right and
or even just like the voice and

(08:51):
and one instrument right
and just balance it balance it out
you don't need an entire production of sure whatever
right
you don't need every single frequency all the time
yeah yeah
that's I
my other main instrument with Meg is the 12 string bass
so it's an odd instrument
and people see it and they don't know what it is

(09:11):
they're like I don't even know what you're playing
it just looks like a giant guitar
you know and you think 12 string bass
you think oh
the neck must be really wide
that's not how the 12 string bass works
it's it's like a 12 string guitar
how there's like a little octave string
yep 12 string bass
there are two of those for each
so it's still essentially four strings
yeah but they're four triples okay

(09:31):
so every one note you play
you're playing three strings
you're playing the fundamental note
the base note mm hmm
and then parallel an octave higher okay
so there it's not octave octave
it's not yeah
three octaves it's only two
but that relationship between those two unison strings
is what the kind of like
key characteristic of the 12 string bass is
hmm it's like

(09:51):
they'll never be perfectly in tune with each other okay
so there's a shimmer and a natural coursing effect
that is the 12 string bass
you know you can get an eight string bass
it just has a single octave next to it
and that has its own kind of tonality
but the 12 string
because there's those two unison strings
they rub each other
in just that slight frequency difference

(10:11):
way that the big notes
and I'm doing that with the ambient project now too
I'm using that because it covers like
I can play three quarters of the way up the neck
and play a big open chord
and literally have like
kind of piano level range
mmm cause I've got like a zero
a one yeah
and I've got a four yeah

(10:33):
yeah you know
so I've got a nice four or five octaves that I can
that's awesome I can play and have that
and so that's kind of like
I've been trying to be the odd bass player
you know it's like
oh I love
I love to be the bass player
but it's like I was like
we were saying with the
spreading out that frequency with Meg playing with me
playing 12 string bass in that
we were a trio at that time

(10:54):
so we're just guitar drums and bass
but because of the way that I had the 12 string
system setup
I was actually playing two completely separate signals
wow I had the upper strings going through a pedal board
which turned it almost into a keyboard kind of sounds
yeah like
I had
a couple of different pedals that are essentially
synth pedals
that'll give me that on top of the fundamental

(11:15):
low bass parts coming out of another amp unadulterated
so it it really does sound like two or three people
simultaneously wow
so in a trio situation a lot of times
people would come up after our set and say things like
okay but where's your keyboard player yeah
it was like oh
that's just me yeah
yeah if you really pay attention
you can tell that it's just unison playing like

(11:38):
but because the texture is completely different
and the tone is different
coming out of another amp
and the frequencies are different
it allows me to kind of go oh I'm
I'm actually making a lot more yeah
music than it looks like yeah
well see
this is why I had you play with me
when we did the TV thing
because I didn't know any of that
sure well
just have yeah

(11:58):
having that in
I'm a natural tinkerer yeah
when it comes to stuff like that
and just enough of a neurodivergent person
that it's like oh
I pay attention to things like frequency yep
I don't know why that
why that is part of the brain process
like I don't know
I think yeah
I think in terms of did that feel alright
sound alright and look fine
you know like yeah yeah

(12:19):
I like things in threes and there's
I always say oh
you need to triangulate on everything to really learn
uh huh uh huh
you know you need a physical sensation and a
you know conceptual thing
and then just like the practical experience
and I think when you have all those lined up
you can learn anything mm hmm
it's the way that I've always Learned
you know music stuff
it's like oh
I need to I need to read it

(12:39):
listen to it and play it yeah
and then if I do those three things that I can
I can learn that doesn't matter how crazy it is
so how does that translate into your singing journey
because I haven't heard you sing very much
I mean I've
I've in I've been lead singer in a band
you know like by necessity essentially okay
you know like I I always said

(13:03):
I'll never sing as my first choice okay
you know I'll never be
I'll never be like I'll be the same
you know I'm not gonna be that guy part of it
is just that I'm not the right personality
I feel like I know good singers and I know
you know like
and I know
I've been in bands with great vocalists and singers
and it's like oh yeah
I don't there's a certain quality that
and I'm maybe it's just one of those things that like

(13:24):
you can't hear it in yourself
hmm you know
it's like oh
I listen to my recorded voice
and I've been happier with it over the years yeah
years ago I
you couldn't have paid me to listen to my own recording
yeah singing yeah
now it doesn't bother me nearly as much as it used to
good I don't know whether I've gotten better
and it just sounds better to me
or just gotten used to it fair
but yeah I will never be I'll never be the first choice

(13:45):
you know like
I'll never choose to volunteer to be the lead singer
but I'll do it and yeah and sometimes
I will build a project
based on the fact that I'm gonna have to sing OK
I do a duo project with my friend Molly and you know
it's essentially co lead singer the whole time yeah
you know like we we do that it's not just like oh
you're gonna sing and I'll sing harmonies
no we do a lot of male
female like

(14:07):
songs that were meant to be
harmony through the whole song
wow Civil Wars is one of our favorites
they are so good um you
you plus me you and me
which is if you haven't heard them it's a Dallas Green
OK Dallas Green is the guy what's his uh city and color
OK never heard of them yeah
and then and then it's pink

(14:27):
like the yeah singer pink yeah okay
and so it's the two of them because Dallas opened her
he he like did a tour with her and was like
his opening act as an acoustic guy
oh my god he comes from his background is super weird
cause he was the pretty
there was a like a screamo band called Alexis on fire
okay and they were kind of popular

(14:48):
you know how in those bands they
they have they'll have two vocalists
they'll have the guy that's the screamy dude
then the guy with the pretty voice yeah
Dallas Green was the pretty voice
guy from Alexis on fire okay
and he went out and did kind of the troubadour
thing with acoustic and became a whole different act
yeah
and then he was opening for pink and then she was like
wow I really like this guy
and then that is hung out with him on tour and said hey

(15:10):
come to the house
let's try and write some songs together yeah
evidently everything I've read they
he flew out to her place with a guitar
she said I rented a studio
so we got a nice place to work
if you want to just go there and drop off your guitar
we'll go eat then we'll go back and see what happens
I guess they went to the studio
they walked in and they got talking to somebody
and then next thing they knew

(15:31):
guitars came out
and they had written three songs in like two hours wow
this album is banger front to back
it's all very low key it's like
the whole album is basically like acoustic guitar
a little keyboards
some like pedal steel and very low key ambient drums
that's the whole album
I'm gonna have to check that out yeah
you should they only did the one album
it's just called you plus me okay

(15:54):
and that was like their my album was called me plus you
there you go hahaha there you go oh my gosh
that's the name of the act
and I don't know if I think it was just
I think that's just the name of the album too
but yeah absolutely and oh my God
so we do a bunch of stuff from them yeah
and that's very much that like just harmony harmony
harmony okay
in fact I I personally love and Molly does too

(16:14):
I love that thing where you know
like you get to that point in the song where oh
we just traded mmm you know
like where you're now I'm singing the harmony where I
yeah
halfway through the melody and then they switch yeah
yeah yeah
I go I love doing that I love singing harmonies
my favorite harmony is the hard one okay
that lowered third yeah
the spot the the weird tenor one yeah

(16:36):
it's hard to find but if you find it
it's really only like it's juicy
three notes right in the middle of the whole song
you're literally just going ah
ah
like in that zone all the whole time yeah
but it feels so good to sing that weird third harmony
to me that tenor yeah
or baritone even depending depending on the style yeah

(16:57):
yeah yeah
of course of course that is so cool
did you so before you said like
oh couldn't pay me to listen to myself yeah
now you're feeling better um
did you ever in your journey take any
like do any vocal coach I did um
so in college because I was a music ed major
yeah um
that meant that I had to do the choral OK too OK
and so I took I took

(17:18):
we were required to take one semester of voice lessons
OK and I recall very little of it
it was I had a ta and it was very much like
we all know you're a brass player
and this is a requirement for your degree yeah
we're not gonna really hurt you too much
and we're just gonna give you basically
it was kind of like
here's the kind of things you need to pay

(17:40):
attention to when you're teaching students
mm hmm
like how to teach them to breathe the right and how
you know
like that was really what I got from that was more like
how can I watch someone else sing
and maybe have a few comments about like oh
you need to stand up straight or I
I see that
you're doing this weird thing with your neck yeah
yeah reaching or whatever yeah
it was like
so there was just a little bit of that that I

(18:01):
that I got from that
but it was a very low key kind of lessons okay
once a week you know
it was like an hour once a week for a semester
so I think what did I have 17 yeah yeah
it's not that many yeah
yeah okay
okay cool
and so now you have your duo
you're singing there
maybe sometimes you're recording back up vocals
yeah recording back up vocals occasionally okay

(18:23):
not many live shows
mostly focusing on writing and recording and all that
and just trying yeah
we go through phases right
getting some material together and you know
just trying to just trying to keep it
you know it's like well
we gotta get a little momentum
you know so new singles pop every once in a while cool
we you know
that her newest one was probably
that was probably two months ago okay

(18:43):
six weeks ago
I think the the latest one dropped from that um
and oddly enough it was
the recording was done
like my part was done forever ago
ah yeah yeah yeah
you know cause
you know we go in and rehearse and it'd be like
I've got four new songs we rehearse
and the drummer and I would stay and bang out our
four songs worth of tracks
yeah so they had stuff to build on and could work later

(19:04):
yeah yeah
yeah very
and so when the new single came out
and I'm listening to it I went
did I play on this yeah hahaha
and then so I messaged Cam and I said
did you know
like did you yeah
did did I play
he goes yeah
do you remember when we did that session
you guys did four tracks in like an hour
oh and he goes
and two of those were one takes

(19:25):
he goes that was one of them
he said so you only played it once
oh my
so don't he goes
don't feel bad about not so yeah
we rehearsed it you know
we rehearsed it what
three or four times as a live act
yeah
and then everybody split and then we just kind of went
oh let's do the quick
let's just do the bass tracks and get it done
and so that just means you're really good
one take yeah
the drummer and I just and it's all

(19:46):
the nice thing is
is that Meg's style is very much like intuitive to me
you know yeah
she writes from a very traditional
kind of songwriter perspective
if she goes we're in G
I pretty much already know the song
you know like I know where we're gonna go
she's she has some tendencies to
you know like
oh I like to use that minor two chord
or I like to use that you know

(20:06):
like there are certain things that happen
throughout the song that
when she's playing me something brand new
I can usually feel where it's headed okay cool
she does occasionally throw in a little
you know rent a little something
it's like oh no
we're going we're totally going up a whole step here
like ooh elite
yeah yeah
yeah yeah yeah
but that's so cool it's a
it's great when it's a good match
it is right

(20:27):
it is yeah
and the band has all like
her and I've always meshed really well
um being as we did like mini tour as a duo yeah
you know it's like oh
we spent a lot of time in the truck yeah yeah
just the two of us you really get to know each other
well that's how I talked her into get
you know like hiring a drummer and being a power trio
it was during that tour I said you're
you're already playing guitar yeah

(20:48):
I said if you could just play rudimentary guitar
cause she wasn't when we
when she started playing guitar
in that band she had never played guitar really
so she was the guitar player in a trio like huh
with no real experience other than playing ukulele wow
so it took her about a month or two of kind of
but that's fast figuring it out yeah
yeah she already had the facility

(21:08):
you know oh
from the ukulele she could play all the stuff
it was a matter of like going okay
well that's d well and then singing at the same time
singing and doing you know yeah
and playing an appropriate guitar part that
that actually is a guitar part
not just like oh
I'm gonna I'm just filling the space while I sing yeah
yeah you know
a lot of
a lot of beginning guitar players will do that
where it's just like they're not actually play

(21:28):
they're more supporting their singing
you know yeah
that's me that's the kind of guitar player I am
like strumming chords and you see that
you know you see it
and sometimes I've always said it's like there's
there are a couple of triple threats out there
and there are not very many
you know where it's just like
oh
great guitar player great singer and great songwriter
where are those yeah
you know there can be
you can be two of those and have an excellent career

(21:51):
yeah you know
you can be a great songwriter and a great
you know Bob Dylan's a great example of like hey
not a great singer but good songwriter good
you know like yeah
and so I feel like
there's just a handful of those
triple threats out there yeah
we don't see him very often
yeah Ryan Adams definitely
I think he's one of them I think he's a good singer
there you go in his genre
in his style and yeah
so that's what we're gonna be
that's what we're gonna yeah

(22:12):
that's what we're gonna do today
we're gonna do some oh my Sweet Carolina
Ryan Adams um
we were just talking about what do we wanna work on
and you mentioned that uh
post covid like actually having Covid in 2020
um
you feel like there's sometimes a little bit of a gap
like just a note that's just missing
yep and so this song is kind of in that range

(22:34):
in that area yeah
so we're gonna just go through it
see what's happening see if I can find one of those
maybe exactly
of course now talking about it
it won't that's always how it goes
that's always how it goes
but we'll just go through it um
and then we'll dissect it and see what's happening
see what adjustments we can make
to really get the most out of it
if that's cool with you yeah absolutely

(22:55):
yeah yeah
let's make a singer out of you
leave a singer so you believe in it
cause you can do it I'll do it for you Alrighty
let's just start from the beginning here

(24:27):
yeah very good
how do you feel it feels good
yeah I'm
I'm very much a you know
situational musician where it's like
we don't sing at 3 in the afternoon
you know what I mean like oh
singing's a bar thing at 10:30 at night
yeah eight cigarettes and five beers
and yeah it's that

(24:47):
you know
there's a little bit of that going on right now
yeah and I don't know whether
I've always been more of a night owl
and so I
you know I feel my voice come in later in the day
like I get rid of a lot of my phlegm and stuff
like I feel kind of phlegmy right now
yeah yeah
yeah yeah
could have been the like
that

(25:07):
half a teaspoon of cream in the tea that I had before
you know like that was two hours ago
but it you know yeah
kind of could be well
so usually the phlegm comes from dehydration
sure so
and also like when you're drinking now
it feels soothing on the voice cause your larynx resets
exactly but it doesn't actually touch your vocal folds
right so you have to

(25:27):
you have to drink the day before right
water not sure
not booze right right
drink water the day before
right to feel hydrated today right
um and so
you know phlegm is just kind of
a protective layer for your vocal folds
when they get dry so that they're not getting hurt
um and also now
you know
I don't know how much you warmed up before this zero
there you go right

(25:48):
so you're basically just vibrating
the phlegm off of your vocal folds
sure that's what's happening
and that's very normal
especially when you're not warmed up
that's why we warm up
and we're just using the song to warm up
yeah but you sounded awesome
um how does it feel like effort levels wise
like if 1 is like I'm like talking and 10 is like

(26:08):
I cannot sing another note
where on that effort spectrum that's around a 3
yeah yeah
okay like this is
it's casual it's not a
I'm not pushing it's in
it's right in the sweet spot of my range yeah
um he
some of his
songs do have a tendency to be just a little
at the top or yeah
out of my range
but that's one of them that sits right in my sweet spot

(26:30):
and he has a
quite a bit of his catalog that's right in that OK
GCD you know anyways
I wanna go again from from the beginning
I do I do agree with you
I think it sits in a really great spot for your voice
um not too high
not too low right
um and
in the beginning can you give me a little less

(26:51):
like more more conversational
sure keep it more conversational in the beginning
because you're hitting all the right notes
and it sounds really great
we don't need to do quite as much just yet
before we started rolling the cameras
you were like I just like
he has like these little quirks that he does
and it sounds really nice
and those will come out
the less you feel like you're singing sure

(27:12):
the more you feel like you're just telling the story
and basically what we're doing is
we're making it just a little bit less perfect
on the bus there it is yeah

(27:39):
OK I'm gonna
sorry I'm gonna drop you right there um
was that trying I was trying to find me something
so I was try
can you give me a little bit more of a smile on that
try yeah
I was try trying to find me something great
now trying to find me something

(28:00):
there it is yeah
now smile just with your uh
with your mouth not with your forehead too OK
try one more time
I was trying to find me something great
now with 10% less volume and I try something great
I wasn't sure split the difference between the two
I'm trying to find me something great

(28:23):
I wasn't sure um
now you're gonna try
you're singing two notes
just for the sake of this exercise
can you try can you try
I was trying not trying okay
I wasn't sure just what how does that

(28:48):
I'm all I'm often very conscious
of like whether it's a scoop or a hit
hitting straight on the note
and I don't even know how that
what I was doing prior to you yeah
I was doing a scoop I felt like a step
I will call it a step try
try right
when you're singing two notes
a scoop would be more like a try
right not quite as blurry
yeah and then uh
and then the attack try to find me something

(29:11):
but now because we're in the very beginning of the song
we wanna make sure that it's not
I was trying right
yeah but more I was trying to find me something right
we're not like yes
we're attacking the note
meaning we're not stepping or scooping up to it
we're starting on the note
but it's not too much already right
I was trying to find me something right

(29:34):
little more push of the air
I I feel like that's always been one of my
things that I don't pay enough attention to
is just like the flow of air
flow of air yeah
you know as a tuba player like that
that's something that I should be relatively
conscious of uh huh
because it does take a lot of air to play that big horn
of course it's like
what do they say most people have four liters of lung

(29:55):
and it takes 4.3 liters per second to play the tuba
oh or so
it's like some weird calculation okay
you need bigger lungs like there's a whole exercise
you know like yep
there's a reason training that and the capacity
how to not get dizzy oh my god yeah
it's literally what it is
like you just start training to take big breaths
over and over and over
and how long has it been since you played
it's twenty okay

(30:16):
well there you go
yeah so hahaha
you know it's muscles yes
um so I like that you're thinking flow right
so if we can think less volume
almost a little breathy like
it doesn't necessarily need to be like
Billie Eilish kind of breathy sure
but try try
yeah me
I even hear that when you do it
there's enough of the in the back exactly

(30:38):
so that allows you to keep it soft
now attack it trying to find me something
that was a little scoop but I didn't mind that
trying to find me something great
now turn that volume knob all the way down
I was trying to find me something
can you just can you just speak try
try and find me something

(30:58):
say it try try
there it is one more time
try OK
great now split the difference try
try
trying uh huh
it's hard right
when you're not used to like letting right
the vocal folds open just let it flow
cause that's basically what we're doing
we're just not closing the vocal folds right
as tightly

(31:19):
we're just keeping a little bit of a gap trying
try that try
okay that's what I'm talking about
try that again I felt that in a different spot too
it was a little more okay
try a little more the third eye yeah
try that again
try good
good good
now let's try and sustain it for a little bit longer

(31:41):
so it's not try but try
tray
good how's that feeling
mm hmm different different is good
different is good as long as it's not scratchy well
it doesn't yeah
it feel a lot a lot less restricted
less restricted cool
cool I think that's probably the
the subtle difference between what my brain is used to

(32:02):
from the plate playing the horn is a yeah
is a lot less variable in its yeah
concentration yes
it's kind of like a continuous singular pressure yeah
and this is more like there's so much like
can be really tight or it can be like this and being
huh yeah
let it completely wide where
it's pretty rare to not hold it all in

(32:23):
and focus at one speed in singing
like in the vocal coach coaching world
we call this the pressy to breathy spectrum right
is it or is it
and everything in between right
the pressy to breathy spectrum
so we wanna we're
what we're exploring right now
is a little bit more towards the breathy
side of the spectrum right

(32:45):
and then you know at the end of the day
you just wanna have options
so you can pick how breathy
or how pressy do you wanna make it
but here in this case
because we're just in the beginning
I think just that more laid back
almost
a little bit of a breathy sound could be really cool
but we have that t right try try
so we need to make sure that
that Turu is not coming in too hot right

(33:07):
try one more time
I was trying to find me something me
I was trying to find me something trying
I still wanna do the squeak
I still wanna do the yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
I was trying to find me something good
good good
I wasn't sure just what good good good

(33:29):
yeah so that I was trying to find me something more
push through the breath okay
yeah I was trying to find me
me something okay
okay that's a totally different texture
mm hmm how's that feeling
that felt really nosy you know
like really like a like a
I open the palette yep
above yep
and I got a double

(33:50):
yep you were that yeah yeah yeah yeah
was where I put it I guess that's yeah
no that totally makes sense
that totally makes sense but that's where it popped
well so that the air could come out right
right it was your
your body was trying to figure out
what do I need to do to get more air out yeah
yeah and I am wide open both sides today
so perfect that happens

(34:12):
that happens occasionally
you got lucky today yeah
there you go perfect
not that that's necessary
to use your nostrils to get the breath out
cause the mouth opening is a lot bigger than the
nostrils right
so technically not needed
that's just where your body went
because we're exploring something new
that you haven't done before
so just trying to figure out
what do I need to do to make this happen right

(34:32):
but you know if your nose were a little bit more closed
or just one nostril was open
then maybe more of the breath
breath would come through your mouth
either way works whatever
you know feels good to you is fine with me um
now exactly that one more time
5% less volume just a little bit less

(34:52):
I was trying to find me something okay
I was a children's one okay
how's that better
it felt smoother like coming out of it
you know the hit was felt about the same
but the coming out
like it felt like there was a awkward taper
it kind of just went
yep yep
it's kind of it totally ended
but not abruptly it just it

(35:14):
but it also didn't just go
uh huh it went
oh yes
just yeah nice
a nice envelope of closure yeah
that's what it felt like so okay
I love that it sounded like that too
you know like I heard it
I heard it I was like
oh that was different
it just yeah
came on in a different way
it's just
it's just a different texture that you're giving me
right now
we're not just painting black and white anymore

(35:36):
now we added a splash of red in there
sure
and that just makes it really interesting to listen to
and technically it's less perfect right
but that's what we want in contemporary singing
otherwise go and sing opera
musical theater right here
don't sing to the back of the room
no sing to just like
right me to the microphone honestly
literally just yeah
super intimate super conversational and a little broken

(35:58):
right I was trying to find me something just hmm
let's do it again okay
I went down to Houston I stopped in San Antonio
station for the bus

(36:27):
the dust beautiful keep going

(36:52):
pockets full of cane alright
great great great
it's weird like I
I feel like um
I tend to autopilot singing always yeah
like I in fact
I'm I'm
I'm of that I'm of that ilk that listening to music

(37:12):
lyrics are 95% meaningless to me
uh huh during the thing
so there's a very much a
like a disconnect for me of lyrics to the music
yeah a lot of times
so I don't I'm very much a
like that's a pitched mouth noise to me
yeah and so often I can

(37:36):
I disassociate from the actual
you know lyrical content of a song um
which is both good and bad
you know like
there are certain songs
that I've played over the years
that will
you know emotionally react
if I think too much about what I'm saying yeah
you know what I mean it's autopilot right
it's so much harder to change something

(37:58):
you've done for a long time
than to learn something new
100% definitely
cause you're like you the the
the brain path was already created yes
now it's like no
hold on we gotta make a right turn
yeah over there
change it up a little bit
we need to add one more stop along the way
yeah yeah nuts yeah
uh interesting that you brought up the
the lyrics are like it melodies
just listen to the melodies

(38:19):
I listen to the music
I don't really listen to the lyrics
I'm the same way
and I think it's because I grew up speaking German
not English and I always sang English music
I just made the sound yeah
I had no idea what I was singing about right
nor did I care right right
I just wanted to sing and uh
and then acting school when I

(38:39):
after high school I went to acting school
I was a part of my musical theater program um
and that really helped me connect to material
sure like to songs
and that's been very helpful because
especially with people like you
where it's just so natural
like music comes so naturally to you um

(39:00):
if you can connect to the material
the right things are gonna come out right
either way and I don't have to tell you
make this more breathy do this there and here
whatever right
you're naturally gonna do it um
and when when we're performing autopilot
I think is awesome when we're in the studio right

(39:22):
I don't want that to happen as much
because then we're losing a little bit of the
of the rawness sure
you know the
the imperfection well
even as a bass player I'm I'm
I'm I'm constantly like on myself about like you
you're you play differently
when you sit down at the console to play yeah
when I sit down to record something

(39:43):
I play different than I do live
and I'm trying to reconcile that right now
or it's like I
I like my tone when I play at
you know performance value yeah
doesn't happen very often in the studio
you're playing more to a track and you're
you're actually adjusting it
it's a little more subtle and um
finesse playing in the studio a lot of times

(40:05):
but yet like you're saying
sometimes you're missing that like raw element that
yeah is like oh
there's something about like
digging in a little extra hard yeah
you play that that tone does that and yeah
having those and that's something that I've
been working on with my bass playing okay
so oh
I'm trying to add this element of like
let's get some of that live energy to it

(40:27):
let's get some of that live tone into it
yes I want you okay
I want you to imagine yourself in a live setting
on a stage somewhere your favorite stage sure
where you feel like this song would fit that
uh huh that scene okay
and I saw you were closing your eyes a lot
when you were singing that's totally fine with me
and I tend to I tend to

(40:48):
I tend to be that's part of that
like just shutting off the world
hmm it's like when I do that it's
I think you know
it is sometimes really interesting to see how
when we start doing things for us
people get more interested in it right
than when you're like I'm putting on a show for you
mm hmm you know
so it pulls it pulls people in because they're like

(41:08):
I wanna I wanna know what's going on over there
sure so yep
I want you to channel that OK
from like the very very
very first note OK
and yeah
you know the lyrics obviously
do you know what the song is about for you
I've I've been kind of like low key think
you know it's like
cause there's a few really odd
you know like lyrical lines in there

(41:30):
and that's that's one that's
that's just part of us um
it's my shower playlist your shower playlist
like a Ryan Adams shower playlist yeah
so I hear this song like every morning OK
it's part of the like 5 or 6 that end up going through
and it's like
there's a lot of kind of conflicting stuff in it
you know like it feels like he's like oh
is it about mental health
is there this thing you know oh
but there's it could just flat out be oh

(41:53):
it's just that traveler song
you know like I was here because at the end
he was he talks about like oh
there's no sweeter wind than blows across the south
but he's talking about Texas
then he's in Ohio and then he's yeah
you know like it's kind of running around
and I feel like oh
it's just that like oh
you got the wanderlust
but you always wanna go back back home
my sweet Carolina yeah
back home so

(42:15):
you know like
is there you don't have to tell us
cause this is personal stuff okay
but you know
is there something where you like
I can I can relate to this
maybe it's not a place
but maybe it's a person that you keep coming back to or
or your instrument right right
like it can be it can be anything where like
I can make this feel like it fits me and my story

(42:37):
not whatever whatever Ryan was was was doing right sure
so you know
take like OK a little moment to think about
do you have something where you can yeah
no keep going back to that yep
I can channel that yeah OK
let's channel it let's channel that
and the stage the quiet people are interested
like they're full on you
and let's just see what happens you're killing it

(43:03):
stopped in San Antonio

(43:48):
pockets full of cane
okay
okay how was that good yeah
I can I I can drop into that pretty in fact
it's kind of one of those things that
I feel like I'm good at you know
people say oh
I get nervous before I go on stage or yeah
nervous before shows
I just don't yeah I just don't have that
I don't have that like oh

(44:08):
I'm nervous it has to be a really big deal
well I mean
that does show you how like
your mind can sometimes work a little bit against you
and it's the same in in singing right
like we tend to overcomplicate things like
does this sound pretty and blah blah blah like
are people gonna like this
does this sound like me or am I copying somebody right
like all these things that we're thinking about it

(44:28):
we're making it so complicated
it's like right stop thinking and just sing yeah yeah
that's essentially what it is yeah
but also like connect to the material right sure
and that's something I had to practice very much
and still
it's an active thought every time I sing anything oh
what is this song about actually to me
I don't really care what it is about for the writer
it's like to me like what does this mean

(44:50):
it's still an active thought every time
because it's not natural right
for me to to want to do that
but it's important because it does change
just slight
little details in your voice here and there
but that was that was good
let's look at the let's look at the chorus
oh hold on before um uh

(45:11):
you're also singing the word insane
I went insane yeah right
that's a really powerful word sure
you never know I mean we're going off of right
you know whatever yeah
somebody else is the interpretation right
exactly exactly
um
but anyway so pockets full of rain whatever uh
we're gonna go into that and

(45:33):
and then into the chorus
where this beautiful lady is harmonizing yes alright
let's do it
full of cane

(46:10):
oh that home was beautiful
that home was beautiful how does the chorus feel
good yeah
I like that one yeah
like I said I think when we first started I was like
there's a note in there
that's the one that kind of misses
it's that very first one sweet sweet
yeah
in in another situation it uh huh
and which is cut out and that's a long

(46:33):
that's a
that's one note and that's a lot of a long note
you gotta sustain it
there there yeah
you gotta go clear there before you get a new note
so yeah your placement is pretty spot on on that sweet
like I see your tongue really like coming up like um
in the back to make that e
right sound versus like an aw right

(46:53):
the tongue's flat
your tongue's really nicely coming up in the back
and you're still keeping it flat and wide
which is good otherwise
it might
might be a little bit of tongue tension creeping in
there um
I think we can loosen it just a little bit again
just a little less perfect
so instead of like sweet right
it's like really getting for
like going for that note sweet

(47:16):
just a little more space
do you hear a slight difference
yeah it's like barely a difference sure
but it makes all the difference in the end right
so can you just try that yeah sweet

(47:38):
I don't know think like 5% more down than wide okay
oh my
haha I'm playing

(48:00):
can you instead of a beautiful e sound sweet
that makes it so perfect oh my
sweet sweet yeah
sweet oh my
just do less on the note
cause like you're like so close
we just need to make it a little less perfect okay

(48:22):
oh my
I'm not feeling the breath in the right spot there
I don't think okay
like does I
I and I know that's something else that I like I said
I have a little trouble

(48:42):
I've always had a little trouble
having consistent breath support
across the board yeah
the same way you know
like singing the chorus
catching the breath in the chorus
the same way each time you know
like this feels like one of those that
I have a tendency to go take a half breath and go
oh my
you know like there's a halfway or I'll go look

(49:03):
catch breath oh my
or a longer oh my
sweet yeah yeah
yeah I think the little catch breath is cool
um what I saw you do actually
that I didn't bring up earlier during the verse
when we were working on that
that sigh you were like breathing in beautifully

(49:26):
like you were trained to do during
you know
your brass days and then
you held on to it before you started singing
I let it go yeah
can you try
not holding on to your breath before you let it go
I've always felt like I nudged to notes along the way

(49:47):
like I don't have a good spot on
spot on spot on hit
yeah but that makes it sound natural hahaha
right and it is more
I've always said that just makes me more conversational
you know yeah
it's more of a conversation
and that the stuff that I do pay attention to lyrics
it's stuff that it's like oh
I'm going to speak this to you
yes yes
yes yes
yes yes
there is a part of that
and a lot of my solo set does have that element to it

(50:10):
OK it's like oh
I'll it'll definitely
will give me some new ways to kind of like oh
something new to think about that's good and bad for me
but yeah yeah
no I get that
I get that but there's just like a nice quality that's
that's coming through when
when you're not holding on or flooring it right
like zero or all of it right
it's it just sounds more natural and less polished

(50:32):
you know yeah
and that's a good thing yeah
in this case that's a great yeah yeah yeah
it sounds nice let's try the chorus one more time yeah
oh
and shake it loose baby

(51:09):
yeah yeah okay
okay okay
yeah I felt that
I felt that felt more confident just in that
like just a spot it just felt like that was very much
one day carried me home you know
like they they sat in the same spot
I didn't feel like I was
uh huh nudging between them okay
like they all sat right cool

(51:29):
each of those like last little hits if you were yeah
one day yeah
no that was that was really really great
one thing I hear you do a lot is
China
yeah those releases at the end
I think they're a beautiful stylistic tool
it tells me a little bit that you're not

(51:50):
using quite as much breath throughout the phrase
as you could sure
again you're a brass player
so you wanna try and conservation yeah
exactly
and I am giving you permission to use more of it when
as you're singing right
it I do kind of like
I've been trying to integrate different things and like

(52:10):
just that concentration of breathing that yeah
the yoga requires and just concentrate
which hearkens back to playing instruments and singing
like this is an additional triangulation
for the singing thing for me
yes it's like now I've just
I've added those two things that I was probably missing
the feel yeah
and the like
just understanding you know

(52:31):
like just listening to you talk about it and yeah
getting that little bit of information to add
to the algorithm you know
to the algorithm I love it
well and also just understanding
I know
I'm a little bit of a nerd when it comes to the voice
so I like to explain why we're doing something
or how we're doing it right
what's really happening sure
because at the end of the day
it does help when you understand
it really does oh

(52:51):
if I like
what's happening at the vocal fold level is
they're just not closing as tightly
to make a breathy sound okay
so you can visualize that right
visualize that looseness
that openness in the vocal folds
and just having that mental image can sometimes help
to get it exactly where you want it
what's odd and I've
as a guitar and bass teacher

(53:12):
I've told students for years
once you know what it looks like to play those chords
yes
it is almost equally valuable to visualize it
as it is to actually do it yeah
you know yeah
you can just because thinking oh
you know when you first start playing
just going G chord d chord

(53:33):
you know yeah
just going back and forth between those two
is difficult uh huh
but if you like
if you're making that triangulation or like okay
my fingers go here I see them in this shape yeah
okay then they go here
I see them in this shape then you can visualize that
yeah or some people
I guess can't
but most people can right
but you know
just like that visual that creative visualization

(53:54):
there were studies that were being done with
with people like
they separated them into two groups
where one group was actively practicing on the piano
and the other group was just studying the sheet music
they they
they were not allowed to play yeah
and they did just as well
if not better than the ones who actively practiced
right is
is your mind is a very powerful thing very

(54:14):
very powerful I love it
so yeah
I I mean honest
like you're you're great right
and even like with that that note in there
we're like kind of cutting in and out
like sometimes there I'm not hearing it today yeah
which is a good thing
I'm not feeling it completely today okay
there was one moment where I was like
there is a little moment okay
and it but it
it didn't even it didn't do what it normally does okay

(54:35):
full shut off can we just for shits and giggles
take it up a half step and see what happens
now the
the voice is gonna sound a little weird
like the lady that's singing with you
but I like to use the chrome extension transpose
sure to change the key of it and see what happens yeah
just to see if we can find that spot in your voice

(54:59):
just a half step

(55:30):
in this position
okay even up here it's still good yep
let's do another one sure let's see

(56:19):
okay I'm impressed how's it feeling
good one more sure
one more that was really good that's really good
oh oh

(56:57):
I just feel like it's just getting better
every time you do it how's it feeling
yeah I like I said I I tend to do that at home
it's like yeah
and a lot of times I will do that in my rehearsals
I'll play I'll rehearse it a whole step higher
I played a song that was supposed to have no capo
but the song that I played before
had the cape on the fourth fret
oh my God so yeah

(57:18):
two whole steps of a yellow oh my God
I was like why is this song so hard to sing today
and halfway through I'm like
oh my god I'm singing it four half steps higher yeah
that's why yeah
but
this is when that kind of stuff comes in really handy
and also sometimes what we see when we sing to
the middle part is the hardest part yeah
so if you're just a little higher

(57:38):
it actually gets easier again right
you don't necessarily have to go lower
sometimes you have to go higher well
Molly and I do that in the duo as well
because she has more of a Alto OK
cool so Stevie Nicks
yeah kind of spot yeah
banger spot yeah
it's like but it is it's like that's my top note yeah
that's the one and that has to be down a half step
and there's no shame in that well
the bad thing is

(57:59):
I'll go to an open mic and I didn't bring a guitar
and so he's like hey
you wanna play
and I'll get up and I'll start one of those songs
and halfway through I'll realize
oh no there's gonna be one really horrible note
at the end of this trust me
it'll be OK you got it
you got it and then that's well
sometimes it comes out though
you know like sometimes under the under the dress
it'll actually happen exactly
and those in those situations we just need to know

(58:21):
what can we do to adjust to still get the note out
right ideally
we adjust the key sure right
sometimes that is not an option
so now we need to figure out
what can I do with my voice to make that note work
right
I might be doing it completely differently on purpose
like instead of what I just had a weird
like I thought I saw something on the corner

(58:41):
oh okay
no it was a floater
it was a little floater yeah
I think I had cat hair on the glasses or something
you know what I mean like you just no
my girlfriend does oh okay
there you go I've been sitting with them all weekend
yeah it's like yeah
first I keep finding stuff
hahaha but yeah
so sometimes you you don't have the option
but uh
instead of like belting the note
if it's a belted note that's like the e
I just like I just can't get it

(59:02):
make it something completely different on purpose right
right like sing it in a breathy voice
like kind of the theme for today right
like letting more of that breath flowing through
and don't belt it on purpose
and then that can be a really cool artistic choice
and for the audience it's like
oh that's kind of cool
and for us it's like well
I kind of have to do it this way right

(59:23):
but you know but nobody's gonna care about that
have you ever seen the uh
the acoustic version of aha
take on me I have not
it's a it's a more modern
it's like I think they did
it was like on one of those like
MTV Unplugged kind of thing
yeah yeah
yeah and you know that
and this is I think it's from maybe 10 years ago
so they're all older you know

(59:45):
yeah and you know how that song goes
take on me take
and he's yeah
there's a 4 3 octave
it's all through that thing
big range and in the acoustic live version
I'm bated breath waiting is he gonna sing that note
that one note yeah

(01:00:05):
he doesn't hmm
and you can tell it's not'cause he can't
yeah and so
and having these little tricks can also
you don't struggle with like
performance anxiety or anything like that
but like having these little tricks
for people who are struggling with like
being really nervous before performance
just creating these safety nets essentially
sure knowing about it
and knowing that that's a possibility for you

(01:00:26):
we had a student he's a performer out in LA
and he sold out the troubadour
which is awesome and he was like
I am so sick and I'm like
oh no
here are the things that you can do
and he was like oh my God
that makes me feel so much better
and then at the end of the day
he didn't even need it but
just knowing that there's something you can do

(01:00:48):
can be so good got a little support
yep exactly
exactly bag of tricks
yep bag of tricks
get your bag of tricks out
let's fill that puppy up yep
I love it become Santa Claus
yep little bag of tricks
and one for you and yes
and one for you one for everybody
you get a trick and you get a trick playing opera
opera but yeah
I love it awesome
hey thank you so much

(01:01:09):
my pleasure I Learned a lot from you
I hope this was yeah
this is great I did not know what to expect
so you know
you know like I'm
maybe I'm singing today I don't know what's going on
yeah you
you know like with uh
when I do like
first time lessons with people I've never met before
sure or maybe I've met them
but we've never
I've never heard you sing or whatever you
I never know what to expect
and so like
we just go into it and I'm like alright

(01:01:30):
I'm hearing this this
this and this and then yeah
we just we just kind of go from there
but yeah I love it
you're so great at what you do thanks
I uh
where can we find your stuff
are you cause you're
you're doing a lot of yeah
I've got a couple um
I've got a couple of
a project things going on right now
yeah you know
like stuff
you can go and find Megan Christine Martin in the 19

(01:01:51):
uh huh Spotify
you can find us there perfect
I'll link to it
there's the latest single on my way to run
I think it's the latest single
I think there's another one about ready to drop
she's getting close to there was just like
I think there was just one little
kind of mixing session
was all that was left for another single yeah
and that's what we're doing right now
is we're just dropping singles
cool
and you're playing base base on that base and I don't

(01:02:12):
I haven't sang on anything in this project yet
but yeah
I played guitar on the last album too
so you know
like that this one seems to be we
we've added Cam Melton to the band
so we're no longer a trio
we're a quartet yeah
Cam comes in with a you know
great songwriter sensibility
yes excellent singer
plays guitar and keyboard
so he just fattened out everything that we do

(01:02:34):
and a great engineer
so he's doing the recording as well so
oh yeah he has a studio yeah
Milton Studio so
so that's kind of that side of the project
and I have a project with my buddy Ian Daniel
which is the middle of Nowhere All Stars
which is like a instrumental
but we're doing some vocal stuff
we're bringing some guest vocalists
we're doing a lot of recording stuff at a
um Imagine Music collective down there yeah

(01:02:56):
downtown IMC and so
snatching an occasional drummer from that project
and a couple singers from here
and got you know
so
we're just kind of doing assemblage projects right now
there's plans for future shows
we're just kind of like low key
doing studio stuff right now okay
and everybody's kind of in that mode um
and I'm just trying to get my

(01:03:17):
self together to do the ambient bass project
I love it I'm trying
I've reached out to a couple yoga studios thinking
ooh you know like oh
you have a little yoga retreat
you know like the improvised like is really
and I would have brought like some
something to show you but really what I'm
the concept is gonna be like
improvised on the spot for this
for the particular venue wow

(01:03:38):
you know that's so cool
I've been I spent the last couple of months
like just kind of building
tricks for my bag you know
all the things that I gotta have to like oh
I really like this background sample
I really like so I've got about
I really have about five hours worth of stuff
wow yeah
that I could prep and go oh
if I just I
you need me for how long 90 minutes cool

(01:04:00):
I can put that together and have like
kind of a continuous show go yeah
but yet it's all improvised yeah
it's like I have my bed tracks
but the
the chord changes happen spontaneously as I play yeah
and I can just oh
we're I'm gonna
we're gonna go from G to d now
you know and then just change it yeah
um but it's all improvised
so it's I'm trying to do stuff in that sonic way

(01:04:22):
where it's like oh
big speaker so you can really feel the wow
low stuff and the ambient stuff in the background
and really sizzly
I'm using like nature samples in that too yeah
it's like it's birds and wind and oh beautiful
you know
so there's lots of cool stuff going on with that
and that's just kind of like I'm riding the cusp
I've kind of got the equipment
part of it figured out now
and cool it's a matter of just like

(01:04:43):
oh I just need to make
reach out and be like hey
can I come and play in your spot for a couple hours
you know yeah
so that'll probably be sometime this summer
oh my gosh I love it
you have to let me know
and then I'll go do yoga to your yeah
exactly to your bass playing oh
that sounds so cool right
seems cool like
you know vibrations and yes
yoga and meditation and absolutely yeah absolutely

(01:05:03):
I love that I'll be sure to link to everything too
so people can find you
and thank you for singing with me
thank you for sharing yeah
it's good to see you you as well
you as well and let's do this again sometime OK awesome
Alrighty thank you
and thanks for tuning in we'll catch you next time
bye bye