August 8, 2025 • 70 mins
Caleb isn’t just a singer—he’s a full-time musician who built his career one gig, one mic night, and one conversation at a time. We talk about what it actually takes to make it as an artist: connection, consistency, and collaboration.
Whether you’re just starting out or trying to break through to the next level, this episode is packed with mindset shifts for showing up, sharing your work, and building a life in music—without waiting for anyone’s permission.
And of course since this is a coaching session, there’s also plenty of coaching nuggets that just might help you unlock another breakthrough in your voice!
📍Mentioned Resource: follow Caleb @calebbhawkins in Instagram and check out his original music here: https://www.calebhawkins.com/music-video
👉 Want to make practicing easier? Grab our FREE warm up track here: https://lessons.voxtapestudios.com/free-warm-up-track
👉 Want to know exactly what your voice needs to improve? Get a vocal evaluation from our professional coaches here: https://lessons.voxtapestudios.com/vocal-evaluation
👉 Book a 1:1 session with Coach Lara: https://lessons.voxtapestudios.com/trial-lesson
🔔 Subscribe & follow for new episodes every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
OK
LA LA LA LA
10% less punch on that first law
LA LA LA LA okay
there you go one more time
LA LA LA LA know my pain
all over great
just to make it easier to sing
(00:24):
the is has a lot of emphasis OK
right so just to make it easier on you to sing
not to change the songwriting or anything like that
um can you make the word is shorter
so rather than know my pain is
all over ooh
(00:45):
that was nice how'd that feel
a little easier
yeah holding that word out less uh
shifted the phrasing around for me
uh huh uh huh
it was also a little softer
mm hmm right little
little gentler
I definitely felt a little bit more relaxed
(01:10):
hey Vox Star and welcome to from singer to artist
I'm Lara Chapman award winning singer and songwriter
turned viral vocal coach and the host of this show
at VoxTape Studios
we help singers from all over the world
level up their voices
by teaching them the three fundamental skills
all singers need technique
awareness and artistry whether you're looking to go pro
(01:31):
or just develop your voice for fun
my team and I are here to help
check the link in the description
to book your first session
or grab some of our other resources Alrighty
are you ready let's get started
are you ready for another voice lesson with me
I have somebody in my little home studio
my little recording studio
welcome Caleb Hawkins
thank you for having me thank you for being here
(01:53):
we met in 2019 I believe
that must have been 2019 it was at least yeah
so at least yeah
18 or 19 six or seven years ago
yes and we've been trying to make this happen
I think in some capacity
not ever since and finally whatever six
seven years later here we are
we met at an open mic night
and a lot of people always ask me like oh
(02:15):
how do I meet musicians how do I get a gig out there
and I always say open mic nights
go to an open mic you know
when I lived in Florida I played six nights a week
oh wow
it was like Tuesday night through Sunday night
we were somewhere it was just set up
go set up
go every single night
(02:36):
Monday was my night off uh huh
but that was when the best open mic was
so you still went out and you played
at least for 20 minutes yeah
because
that was where you met your next line of collaborators
that was and at least in some open mics
they do this really well where they have like
the room off to the side
that you can tune in before you go up
so yeah
(02:57):
you're not wasting your 20 minutes
just trying to get your instrument
I did more business in the side room
and I got more gigs from being in there
I I wouldn't like sit at the bar
I wouldn't even take more time out in the dining room
more than just like all right
I got my sandwich uh huh
I gotta I gotta go hang yeah yeah yeah
(03:17):
no because well
those were my colleagues those were my peers
those were yep
hey can you cover for me
and you know
and all of a sudden you just booked three shows
you know so
and collaborators like you said before as well
right clients
you know
cause I was producing records and stuff like that
so I had guys coming in there you go
so you know
we we live in a digital world now
(03:38):
and I mean I'm kind of guilty of that
we only teach online
unless you're coming in to record a podcast episode
right hahaha
other than that we only
you mean zoom wasn't an option for this
I could have just hahaha
I just done it from the computer
I mean you can
there's literally no difference
I can hear you just as well
but when it comes to you know
more fun it is
(03:59):
and when you when you go and like play out and uh
you know like you wanna meet other people peers
then that's still one of the best ways to do it yeah
I think every every actual
like
meaningful relationship I've developed in the music
business has been from
like face to face conversation
there you go so yeah you know
(04:20):
it's a lot easier to ignore the direct message
and the email and the whatever
not for me I'm not that kind of person but yes
for most people 100% I get anxiety when I
for brand endorsements things like that
it's a lot easier to go to the trade show
go to the conference yeah
so yeah there's still a lot of value in that
100% go to concerts
(04:41):
where the bands that play the kind of music you like
go'cause you're gonna start getting to know their fans
too so yeah
that carries over absolutely
absolutely 100% um
one of my friends his name is Michael Walker
he owns Modern Musician
and he did that when he was on tour with his band
he called it tour hacking where he would you know
(05:01):
for the for other bands
he would just go in their audience and like
show them his music like his band's music yeah
because like he would like open up for them
and so like they would be familiar with him anyways
but they're like where you like this stuff
you might like my stuff and so
he kind of built a fan base like that with his band
it depends on the genre I mean
you could probably do that at like
(05:22):
you know a heavy metal show
a little bit more invisibly than like a singer
songwriter sensitive finger style
folky act where it's like
you're not supposed to talk
well there
well no no
no that was like before
yeah like not during the show
like
when they were waiting outside to get into the venue
yeah not during the show
don't talk during the show
yeah there's a line where it becomes tacky and annoying
don't be that person no
(05:43):
don't be that person definitely not
definitely not um
right before we started rolling cameras
you were quickly like or not so quickly hahaha
telling me about your your vocal journey
and can you maybe just real quick go over that again
we should have just basically hit record
I know we should have stairs
we should have
(06:03):
so in the last few years
I've had more people talking about my vocal
than my instrumentation
which is kind of a weird shift for me
yeah uh
cause
I've always considered myself an instrumentalist first
and you know
in that early 20s you know
late teens years trying to get like sideman gigs
like can I be your guitar player
(06:24):
can I can I
can I play you know yeah
um I
I started hanging out with some guys who were
from Nashville professional sideman
you know I'd go to their concert
you know they're like the big festival show
and I'd sneak backstage and talk to these guys
I asked this guy like how do you get a gig
he's like can you sing
hmm like you don't have to be like a lead singer
but can you sing backing vocals or at least like
(06:45):
you know you don't even have to be like a part singer
singing harmonies but at least
you know like a doubling effect or something
yeah he's like
that'll get you a lot farther
hmm he's like
you know
I use this mantra a lot any idiot can play guitar yeah
not me not this idiot
but you know
but you know
I can pretend but it carries over
it's like you know
(07:05):
guitar players are a dime a dozen
guitar players who can sing are all of a sudden
more like hmm
you know a quarter a dozen yeah
you know and they can do it well
are more like you gotta pay a dollar OK
per you know
and so um
that was like OK
I gotta learn how to sing hmm
(07:28):
oh no
another thing I gotta do and
you know
I was telling you before the cameras were rolling
like it was the dark ages kids you
you you couldn't just like
go and Google search and find
like a vocal teacher on the internet
I mean we had a wonderful dial up internet
you know yeah
you know so that kind of is like well
what can I teach myself you know
I'm a homeschool kid so it's like
(07:49):
you know you kind of just learn this stuff
so I got the Roger Love book
tried going through that found it was more for like
voice over and radio personalities
at least that's what I was feeling from it
and I got the Mark Baxter
Rock and Roll Singer Survival Manual
which helped a lot it was a lot more practical
(08:11):
you know
like the value of what sleep does to your vocals
does affect it that helped a lot
just you know
started working through some of that
started realizing
the things that I was doing in my life
that were affecting my vocal
more than anything else um
I did find a teacher who first thing the guy did was
(08:32):
he sat me down on a digital piano
was like alright what's your range
I don't know my what
so he's like okay
here's middle C can you hit that note
okay you can hit that note okay
can you hit the G below middle C
I don't know
and it was like just kind of working it out okay
(08:53):
so I can hit
all the way up here to like an a below high C
and I can hit like an F below middle C
it was like where I kind of started out
it was like oh
well at least now I know that yeah
yeah yeah
and um so one of the things that um
I think it was in Baxter book
but he said that a singer who knows their limitations
(09:16):
and learns to work within those
will seem limitless versus a singer
that is constantly trying to hit the note
that they actually can't yeah
they will always look like they're struggling
no matter what it is they say
because they are struggling
they are struggling yeah
and they're always gonna look like they're
they're not as good yeah
(09:37):
because you know like oh
you can't hit the note well yeah
but if you would have just sang that like a step lower
you would have been fine 100%
I talk about that all the time
I call this your prima voce
the sweet spot of your voice
and like sticking within that as much as possible
at least when you're performing
when you're practicing
and you're trying to actively expand your skill set
(09:58):
you do wanna push outside of that to get better right
like if you never step outside of your comfort zone
you're not gonna get better yeah
and and that
that was kind of the thing that happened for me too
cause I I started realizing
that the material that I wanted to sing was
you know outside of my range
it's like okay
well you know
how do I gain diaphragm strength
you know how do I
(10:19):
how do I support and uh you know
at some point there um
you know of course
I had to go through puberty and all that awkward
fun stuff yeah
but things just kind of clicked
and I sort of fell into a range that was like
all right I I can
I can work with this and I can
I can get a little into the higher notes
(10:39):
but I can I can delve more in these lower notes
you know being a skinny
white kid walking into a bar and hitting these like
you know Johnny Cash low notes
and rattling beer cans on the bar was like
that's how you got attention
you know
you don't go out there and just sing the screaming
high note and expect they've seen that yeah
what they haven't seen is somebody go out there
(11:00):
and just absolutely
rattle the paint yeah
off the walls I love it
rattle the paint off the walls yeah
so I I was doing that pretty well
until I had my tonsils taken out in 2,015
I had chronic tonsillitis for a long time
and it was it was like
all right we've got to do this yeah
(11:20):
um and I lost a lot of that low end in that
some of it came back it took 10 years
wow um
it's only been in the last little while that I've got
some of it but
I gained more head voice
on the other side of that surgery
so it's like well yeah
I lost some chest voice but I gained like
you know half an octave up mm hmm
(11:41):
that's interesting yeah
so I
honestly don't know enough about
how that affects a singer's voice
it's probably different from yeah
I mean person to person
I think that it's it's definitely gotta be like
you know very unique and
and personal to the singer
yeah you know
unique biology
(12:01):
what I've researched on it um
you know Eddie Lang was this amazing jazz guitar player
in the 1930s he was having chronic tonsillitis
uh was wanting to get into singing cause he was like
I could make more money if I could play and sing
uh huh and uh
a young celebrity singer named Bing Crosby
convinced him to have his tonsils taken out
(12:21):
oh okay
and he didn't come out of anesthetic
he died on the operating table
no way I mean
this is in the 30s
so I'm not trying to scare anybody off of it now
I'm sure we got much better
yeah but
you know
wow you know
that is crazy I wish I had known that story before
I got my tonsils taken out
you know I only Learned that last year
(12:42):
but it's it's almost like
I mean it's
it's nothing like it but it kind of reminds me of like
when when people say like
if you wanna have like a nice edge to your voice
pick up smoking you know
it's like that's just not good advice
it's not good life advice
yeah um yeah
you know there are proper techniques
if you wanna add a little heat
yes exactly
(13:03):
some of them don't sound that good
not trying to single anybody out
but I don't know like that that's a whole sound I mean
we can do a whole episode on
on like affectations on vocals
I would love to do an episode on that yeah
just react to it where you know
you can tell it's fake hmm um
(13:24):
that was something that I think early on
I refused to do okay
I said I'm I'm I'm gonna sing like me
I'm not gonna try to like
sing like Tom Waits or something
that's awesome and yeah
I do sing some Johnny Cash material at shows
and stuff like that'cause it's a cover gig
and it's what you do when you're in a bar
but yeah um
you know I really uh
(13:45):
I put my foot down fairly early said I'm
this is what I've got uh huh
this is what I do and I think that's good yeah
cause you know
people were trying to get me to sing opera
like there was every other concept of what
I could be making way more money
if I sang the way they wanted to hear me sing
versus what I actually wanted to express myself with
(14:05):
hmm so there is it's hard finding that line
especially when it's your your job right
it's like oh
how much do you adjust but it's great when you
do the things that really fill your cup
because then it's more authentic
and it translates better well
and you know
the voice is really the only instrument that the
the musician has to create themselves
(14:27):
you can't just walk into a guitar center
and buy a voice yeah
oh my God wouldn't that be great man
I mean AI is getting there
kind of getting there but you know
that's a whole other thing
yeah um
we should do an episode where we analyze AI
vocal faults yeah
there you go oh my God
we're like oh
(14:48):
that would actually be really interesting
it's a good idea
to hear the computer trying to do vocal faults
to sound more realistic
but you know you really
I mean
you're born with the vocal cords you're born with
and you have to learn how to get them in tune
you have to learn how to maintain it and build that
yeah that material
so
but I'm so glad that you say you have to learn how to
right you're born with it
(15:09):
but then you have to learn how to actually use it
yeah I hate those kids who are just born singing great
haha yeah
it's just they like they have like that angelic voice
perfect technique perfect posture
perfect phrasing ah
screw you haha
well there's definitely
I had to work for this yeah
no I mean
there's absolutely like
(15:29):
natural talent plays a role in it
but they wouldn't have that angelic voice
had they not also used it exactly yeah
so um
you know it's a little bit of both
there are there's really only like
a couple of singers
I can think of that were just naturally that good
right off the bat that people were like
oh my gosh you're amazing
I wanna sign you to a record label
(15:49):
Florence and the machine and she gets a pass
hmm like I actually didn't follow the early career
so I don't I don't follow it real close
but I guess she was drunk
singing in a bathroom somewhere
and somebody heard her was like
oh my gosh really
now I don't know
if she could still do it when she was sober
I don't I don't know any of that
but hey it kind of turns off the brain
and when you don't overthink everything
(16:10):
it makes it a little bit easier sometimes
yeah it makes it harder
for every other musician to work with you
if you can only perform no schnockered
but like that
I'm not trying to tell people to get drunk to sing
that is not a good I mean
not healthy not a good habit
some people are gonna do it anyway
fair fair
but you know don't make it happen
(16:32):
it's not gonna serve you in the long term
but make good choices make good choices
yes yes
yes anyways
so you brought in an original song
yes so the river
I think it's called right
yes uh
this one is um
it's a relatively new piece for me
it's not out yet okay
it is recorded it's as far as that side of things
(16:52):
it's done um
but I'm I'm working on uh
you know I mean
in the studio you have the luxury of isolation
and being able to really hone in on things
but mmm hmm uh
this is gonna be a really
I feel for me at least a really challenging song
OK to bring live to bring it uh
you know I don't have overdubs and all the
(17:14):
the orchestration that I put on the
on the yep album track um
so yeah it's a
it's a little Celtic and there's a little blues in here
okay cool yeah
so awesome well
I would say um
let's just go through it so we can get to know the song
see what we're working with
do like a complete pass through and then it
(17:36):
how repetitive is it uh
it's not very repetitive at all okay
so then let's do the whole thing
I think I sing the chorus twice in the whole song okay
so yeah then let's do the whole thing
cause you know with like pop songs
it's usually pretty repetitive and you get the
you get the picture pretty quickly
yeah I love it
I'm not gonna lie yeah
but you know not your style and so well no
(17:56):
I mean there's
there's certain things I enjoy
but yeah I
I as a musician I
I zone out with that stuff
like if we sing that same phrase more than three times
I did a Ramones tribute show one time okay
and we're doing the Ramones and I realized like
they basically sing these lines like six times
and I would get to like four
(18:18):
and my head would reset the clock and I go
is this the fifth or the sixth
yeah yeah
yeah or are we doing
I think one time we did it like seven times through
cause we'd lost count yeah
I just wasn't used to repetition
I don't know how to count when I'm doing yeah
fair fair enough
so most of my stuff uh
doesn't repeat too much okay
(18:39):
okay well let's
let's have a look uh
let's have you play through it
okay and then
and then we'll go from there okay
alright alright
so hahaha you got it
I believe in you I believe in you
hahaha and you brought your beautiful guitar
yes I did
this was built by my wonderful friend
Sean Gordon out of Wheaton Illinois
(19:00):
he uh
gave this to me in February to uh
experiment with and try out
so yeah it's
it's a beautiful instrument
yeah it's
it's a lot of fun I really yeah
so that's amazing thank you Sean
shout out to Sean right there you go
(21:26):
wow
beautiful beautiful
it's a hard one to sing yeah
you know
I'm not playing like a normal three chord progression
I'm playing in an open tuning
so um
(21:47):
you know some of the chords are kind of
implied some of them are um
just basically drones mmm hmm um
I could not play and sing at the same
like the way you're playing yeah
I can play chords and sing well
I couldn't do this two years ago either
so OK
practice um practice yeah um
(22:07):
you know I really got into a lot of um
like British and Celtic folk artists
uh I guess kind of my boredom with sort of the
the Americana sound that's gotten really popular
right now it's like
it's almost and this hair metal phase of it
where it's very formulaic
you know a lot of tremolo on the guitars
a lot of reverb on the vocals yeah
(22:28):
um you know
I was kind of looking at okay
what are some of these guys like
from the British isle singing like
and some of that more traditional material
mm hmm and what I quickly found out was the guys
more or less just talk yeah
instead of sing and the women circular breathe
(22:50):
oh I swear to God
they circular breathe
cause there is no other way you're gonna phrase a song
the way they're doing this um
if you haven't listened to Lisa Hannigan yet
I have not um
she well
she kind of
gained her popularity by being the backup singer
for Damian Rice okay
okay you know
(23:10):
when he had that explosion in the early
early 2 she was backing him um
and then she split away from
him she got a solo career
I don't know she's done some amazing things
um but during lockdown
uh Ireland uh
has this wonderful YouTube channel called Other Voices
okay and it's sort of like Ireland's Tiny Desk okay
(23:31):
cool to put it in perspective of what it is
and um
couple years ago I stumbled on it
I didn't watch it when it was in the height of lockdown
and they were doing these
but she was at the I think
it's like the Irish National Archive or something
and she sang this
song that was like
how does she breathe okay where
(23:54):
where does the air come from
you know I gotta write a song like that
you know okay
bad idea no
hard to sing then right um
but yeah so I mean
there's
within that song I
I kind of truncated some of the original
cause we're focused on the
the singing not just all of the yes
(24:14):
the yeah
the playing I would love to help you with that
but you know a lot more than I do
yeah OK
so you do get the drying effect
yes the more breath you use
the more there you go
yeah take a sip of water
but yeah the more breath you use
the more dry you do get yes technically um
but uh
a lot of times
what happens when we sing with a breathy voice is
we're pushing actually more air out than we need
(24:37):
to sound breathy which is what's gonna dry you out
and what's gonna make you feel like
you're running out of breath
makes you go flat yeah
yes and it's just like
the endings of like a phrase are kind of like uh
you know like they're not beautifully ended
it's kind of like you're just kind of like fading out
yeah
you get to like the last word on the line and it's like
(24:58):
how do I get enough air exactly
exactly and this is a habit that I really um
I I like to say I kicked a long time ago
but you know
you'll see the singers do it
I'm I'm sure this probably drives you nuts
is you'll see the the shoulders going up
hmm because they're taking a big
they're breathing that way rather than like
(25:20):
you know yeah
and as a guitar player
it's hard to sometimes pull that diaphragm
because it moves your guitar
mm hmm so I personally
I'm not a belly breather at all
I hate it I can't stand it
I cannot get any breath in when I do that
so like just like
you know focusing on like pushing the belly out
like a kind of breath and that's
that's all I got and I barely got any breath in
(25:42):
because it feels so uncomfortable
yeah I'm a rib breather okay
three 60 breather
so I focus on breathing like right here into my ribs
not my waist but
my ribs up here and then it expands in all directions
right like front back
sideways and up and down too
so this is what feels a lot more comfortable to me okay
(26:03):
but it depends on the person you sure
you've mentioned the shoulders
that's called a clavicular breath
yeah uh
I honestly you know
cause I've heard the whole like oh
I look fat if I breathe you know
any other way it's like well
you look weird doing this all the time
yeah you know
you'd look a lot more natural if you were breathing
(26:24):
you know yeah
front to back rather than up and down
I mean yeah
I very rarely talk about where you should be breathing
where you should be feeling your breath okay
unless it's truly like a problem and you're like
overcomplicating it or whatever
because you know you know how to breathe
you've been on this earth for a couple decades
you know I mean
(26:45):
unless you're like asthmatic or something else that yes
exactly outside influences
but yeah yeah
and so yes
singing is a little bit more of an extreme version
for that but at the end of the day
it's the same thing as speaking
it's just a little bit more
so we don't have to overcomplicate it
um
we just need to make sure that the breath you do have
(27:06):
that we're using it efficiently right
that you're not having
more air leak through than you need
to
and that you're also taking breaths in the right spots
and
a three word phrase is a lot easier to get out than a
five yeah
oh yeah
for sure so yeah
um you know I
I can't remember now if we're talking about it
before the cameras were rolling
(27:28):
I used to like with my lyrics
which I think are just out of frame
but
you know I used to actually put like
a hash Mark somewhere on my vocal
to remind myself to breathe
which of course that all goes out the window
when you stop carrying the lyrics around with you
but yeah um
depends on how you practice it
some singers when I bring them in the studio I
(27:48):
I introduce that technique to them because they've
they've just never had
anybody even explain the concept of that
yeah um
you know
leaving the room to breathe within the melody or
you know knowing where to breathe
yes where to breathe and leaving the room
that's something that's very like typical for singers
like you know
people who are like I'm a singer first
(28:09):
they tend to over sing right
and then they six they extend and sustain every note
and I'm like hold on
don't do that first of all
it's not needed there's
we need the room not just to breathe
obviously to breathe as well
but also it just doesn't sound good
when you're sustaining every single note
well and sometimes you
(28:30):
know I've experienced it's like the
the dizziness of trying to do that too
it's just you know
you get a headache
and you start feeling a little nauseous from it um
you know
a song that I am really guilty of show boating with is
um
I go out and sing the boxer a lot okay
yeah um
cause it's a great song everybody knows it
(28:51):
everybody wants to sing the chorus if
you know if you've got a crowd who knows it
they wanna sing along
um of course
I being me I've got to overcomplicate the arrangement
yeah and I do this
you know crazy guitar work
yeah and
but I'll get to you know
the lie lie yeah
you know and I'll get to the last lie on the thing
and I'll try to hold it out
(29:12):
you know until I'm about ready to pass out
yeah yeah
yeah and
you know watch people just kind of like
oh wow
he's really good he should be on the Voice
yeah or whatever that
that moment is yeah
um
but uh
you know
I think the best thing that I ever did for my singing
um you know
(29:33):
I don't recommend this necessarily
but I was flat broke without any options
there was a recession on I needed money
mm hmm
I started busking on the streets of Broad Ripple
you know where the Starbucks is yeah
I would get there like way
way early and that
was my corner okay
and there was a hierarchy back then
I don't know if
I haven't been out there on a Saturday night forever
(29:54):
I don't know
but you had to like beat the panhandlers and
and the hobos and all these people out of that spot
cause that was the spot yeah
okay
and I would sing for four hours on a Saturday night oh
that's if I didn't have a gig yeah
I would just go out there with an instrument and
I mean you're dealing with traffic
(30:14):
you're dealing with
just the fact that everybody's on the move
so you gotta grab their attention
or you're not gonna get the dollar
you know and you
you would learn to project your voice off the plate
glass window the bar across the street
so you could hear the echo come back to you
and that really I gained a lot more power
okay uh
without hurting myself amazingly
(30:37):
that's good idea just from you know
having to flex that muscle no PA system no you know
electronic assistance at all
it was straight up just going out and you know
trying to grab people's attention yeah
and I did that for most of a summer okay
(30:57):
and
I think there are maybe better ways to accomplish that
but that's how I how I ate yeah
yeah and uh
but it also I came out of there
and I really felt like I was a singer finally okay um
you know
cause it's one thing to practice in your bedroom
or even to sing in coffee shops and
(31:18):
and play these you know
small gigs but
you know when you got to really go out there
and make a statement you know when
when you've got to make some noise
or you're not going to break even on the parking um
you know you sing a little differently yes
oh absolutely that
that was you know
into the crucible mm hmm
(31:40):
and you know
straight on the ground mm hmm
you know that was just um
that was a very intense about three months
yeah of doing that every Saturday night
that I didn't have a show
I mean of course
if I had a show I still sing
but yeah
yeah yeah
that was different that was
you know yeah
in a little bit more control
well
but that definitely helped you build up that stamina
(32:00):
it built up some muscle yeah
um and
you know like I said
amazingly I didn't blow my voice out yeah
uh huh
(32:26):
okay great
let's pause right there and no
my pain is all over um
can you no
my pain and I did that out of context
cause I was thinking too hard about yeah
yeah but um
yeah so when you're
when you're using a little bit more of a breathy voice
you're getting a little husky
which it's I
I really like it I enjoy that tone
um can you do just a little bit less on pain though
(32:50):
so that you can feel a little more supported
so for less attack on that word or um
a little more of a full closure
a little less breath okay
so the over is gonna feel a little more supported right
trying to figure out how to play that again hahaha
but I just go through it and I just do it
I think that's easier it's a muscle control thing
(33:11):
and yeah muscle memory kicks in
it's all over okay write that on my penis
(33:33):
is is
can you open up a little bit more on the word is OK
no my pain is all over
that's a little you know
it's like the notes not quite coming out
no my pain over now my pain is
over um
obviously that's just very clean vocals
(33:55):
sure uh
do it in your style can you just do it acapella
just that phrase no
my pain
no my pain is all over
okay fine
so like the vocalization or the yep
(34:15):
just the LA LA LA uh huh
LA LA
where's the note LA LA LA LA
it's not as high as you think it is
yeah yeah
LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA there it is
one more time LA LA LA LA great
now 10% less punch on that first law
LA LA LA LA OK
there you go one more time
LA LA LA LA
(34:44):
over great
just to make it easier to sing instead of no
my pain is all over like
really focusing on the word is'cause just lyrically no
my pain is all over right
that's the lyric mm hmm
is the word is is that an important word in that phrase
(35:07):
um
I guess it is I yeah
um what would you say
is the most important word in that phrase
know my pain is all over over
over the second
the last word in the phrase great
and what's the second most important word
um probably the second word my
my okay
(35:28):
uh I mean
you know if I'm speaking from first person in the song
that's where I would see it okay
okay what about the word pain
I mean that's like the symptom
so um
I I
I I guess I see all six words there as kind of equal
(35:49):
you see them as equal OK
OK pretty much
if I had to like
cut out words and still get the meaning of it
um I can still have like
my pain over right
so just those those 3 words
and I know the gist of the
of the phrase does that make sense
(36:10):
mm hmm right
so with the the way your melody is written
know my pain is all over the is has a lot of emphasis
OK right
so just to make it easier on you to sing
not to change the songwriting or
anything like that um
can you make the word is shorter
so rather than know my pain is
(36:32):
over it makes it a little easier to sing okay
so it's a little shorter
like you're barely making a change
nobody would really notice it
yeah I mean
it's only six words in the whole line there
so it's like trying to find where it fits timing wise
in the pocket mm hmm
um
yeah and you have to see like
does it work with how you're playing
(36:53):
like what you're playing on the guitar right
yeah
yeah so it
you're just removing
the emphasis of the word is a little bit
it's still there it's still the same note
it's just like a millisecond shorter
(37:26):
all over ooh
that was nice how'd that feel
a little easier
yeah holding that word out less uh
shifted the phrasing around for me
uh huh uh huh
um
it was also a little softer
mm hmm right little
little gentler
I definitely felt a little bit more relaxed cool
not trying to get through
(37:47):
you know yeah
trying to bust through that that
that last line of the verse
so that I can go to an instrumental and breathe again
yeah yeah
no I get that
I get that yeah
it it definitely felt a little more laid back
um more conversational too
which fits the song very well
uh I thought you nailed that
and because you didn't give it so much
(38:08):
umph right
so much power
you were actually all the way up on the note
sure which is nice
which is nice um
it definitely felt a lot easier
okay yeah
well and also you're just in the beginning of the song
right like
we don't have to do more than that
yeah to build the range
the dynamic range well
and I've noticed with American musicians
(38:29):
and I'm pointing a finger at myself here
is like we come out with everything right off
you know like as a guitar player
you know when you go play lead guitar for somebody
you know they give you the nod for the solo
you're just expected to just broom
get right into it you know
get out there and just you know
kill it in the first you know
(38:49):
two bars um
you know last year I started studying a little jazz
okay and I started studying with
a guitar player and teacher named Adam Levy
he worked with Norah Jones
like back when she broke out
and he was talking about like
there's a jazz superstition of how
(39:12):
and if you listen to um
the Cole Porter Monk
Wes Montgomery you know
the greats you know
um at some point in the
it might not be in the piece
but in the record there'd be a moment of phrasing
where they'll put two notes
uh huh you know but it'll
(39:36):
and they'll pause between
and the superstition is that's where you
meet god oh is in the phrasing okay
and the and when
one note has a bit of a chance to stand off on its own
so the the more dense
the more like nerdy
high information music that you're doing
um
(39:57):
you know somewhere they will put that moment
mm hmm on the record and um
I guess that's like a really old superstition
but probably I haven't heard of it
yeah I
it was it was news to me yeah
um but uh
you know I've heard a similar idea from uh
(40:20):
Mack Ganer who uh
was like a like part of the Muscle Shoals
like R&B
soul movement out of the Deep South in the 60s and 70s
um and he said
you know it's a space between those notes that you
that's where you
that's where you really find the good stuff
yeah um
yeah so
I've been striving for that
(40:40):
as a guitar player for a while now
and trying to find that as a vocalist is
you know
I think we kind of hit on that a little bit just now
yes yes
it's just little
tiny little details and leaving the space for it too
sure right
yeah that's
one of the things that
this song has been an exercise in
for me is
(41:02):
mm hmm
you know there's tension
and release yeah
and I'm still the one is down here
you know I wanna play like so I'm
we can work something out we can practice
um but trying to find that
that space and that cadence as well yeah
(41:25):
um and let this instrument breathe and
and do what it needs let it breathe
it goes back to the oversinging for voice
yeah right
let it breathe give it room
instrumentalist overplay singers over sing yeah
so why do we do that I don't know
but we all do who are we trying to impress
Simon Cowell
oh my God oh my God
(41:47):
let's let's move on to the set to just the next part
okay so go to the chorus yep
okay
(42:08):
alright those every
how are you feeling about those every
every that part
um
there's a lot of them yeah
the high ones I'm talking about the high ones
the first one and the last one every stream
every drop that's fallen every dream ever broken yeah
(42:32):
so what are those I didn't even realize that
about an octave apart between them
uh
yep it's an exact
are they wow
you're good I
your training's on point there you go
so with those with those everys
give me a slight smile every
so that you get just like a 5% more lift on the note
(42:54):
I can try I mean
it is a sad song I like just in your facial muscles
the smile there
every stream to
dream ever broken okay
(43:15):
okay so those
it's just on those top notes right
just a little so the every so
the the higher octave
yep the high one
the high D okay
that's a high d above middle C
Middle C is here so you're singing here
okay'cause like we're an octave apart
so like every every night
you're singing here every night and then
(43:39):
right I'm just doing it an octave higher
because otherwise it gets really low
well yeah
I was almost getting impressed with myself there
cause I didn't really like
look at where that I mean
you should be impressed with yourself
but
we are an octave lower than where I was demonstrating
OK so I was alright yeah
I was like oh yeah yeah yeah
imagine like I'm singing a d above high C really
(43:59):
you're a d above middle C OK
yeah I just like
which is still quite high actually
yeah yeah
no that that's that's
that's pretty darn good but yeah
just a slight little lift there
um so that way
you don't have to
rely on the force to get you up to the notes
like the
the power or the volume to get you up to the note
but rather the resonance
(44:20):
which is slightly changing the resonance
and that is the the gentle pass through that chorus
cause the last time I sing it
I'm kind of belting there you go
there you go
and so there you can make it darker right there
we can rely a little bit more on the force
but here let's keep it
a little softer um
and we can do that by changing the resonance
just lifting everything a little bit more
(44:41):
so we can still get all the way up to the note okay
and just on the high ones right
dream ever broken yeah
that that second one was really nice
(45:01):
or like the third every
the second high one what do you feel
a lot less uh
effort in that seems to be a theme
um yeah
um
you know
and I know this will all get a lot easier though
cause right now the song isn't even out so
you know everybody's hearing it first here
this is yeah
do you have a release date
(45:21):
I don't um
the album is done
I'm working kind of on the back end stuff
for all the TikTok stuff yeah hahaha
the release the promo yeah
um there you go
this is the premiere for
for the bulk of people who haven't yay
who aren't like on that inner circle
hey can you play this on your stereo
and tell me if it sounds yeah yeah
(45:42):
yeah that's that group of people
well thank you
we feel very special you should
yeah we do
we do
but yeah I mean
you're already like you
you obviously know the song
you wrote the song it fits your voice great
you sound amazing doing it
now it's just about the live performance aspect of it
delivery the delivery
and so we wanna reduce effort as much as possible
(46:04):
because what if you're three hours in
and you're singing that song
yeah still want to be able to
probably gonna close a lot of shows
there you go um
you know just reducing effort as much as possible
and getting the same or an even
quote unquote better result right yeah
no no
no ha ha ha yeah
so it's a it's a really weird yeah
(46:25):
weird out playing G but version of it yeah um
yeah that that's the
the torture I put myself through when I wrote this one
you know but it sounds beautiful
yeah it does
so thank you for torturing yourself
so we get to enjoy it well
I was I was trying to bring
you know the sound of a piano
yeah with me OK
cool with the guitar yeah
(46:45):
yeah so I have 2G chords that I'm playing
there's this one and there's that 1
mm hmm you know
this one's a little bit brighter yeah
but yeah you know
and then you're sustaining it so
we're going to a major 7
mmm mmm hmm you know
I wanted to uh
(47:07):
to have something that wasn't quite so repetitive
mmm um
so each verse as I kind of go
gets a little bit different
yeah
the chords don't change as much as I thought they would
(47:27):
for me
I'll be the whisper in the
yeah so that the whisper in the wind
that one um
(47:49):
that one was the one where at least in the studio
um
I really felt my most vulnerable
I still kind of want to carry that live
I want to continue that vulnerability
uh you know
out on the stage which certain venues
I don't know how well that would translate
cause people are just gonna be staring at their phone
(48:09):
and yeah yeah
you know whatever um
you know cause I
I play all the best
you know um
but uh
then it kind of from there on that
that sort of vulnerable moment is when I start yeah
(48:43):
okay and then I'm echoing it there
but yeah that's irrelevant
that's not singing but yeah
yeah yeah
um how okay
I liked that when you have all that force behind it
positive like a good kind of force
not like a squeezing kind of force right
um it really carries your voice out um
you're this is just an
(49:05):
as an option sure
you're kind of scooping up into all every right
every compared to like an every
and there's not a right way or a wrong way
this is just a different way of doing it um
maybe you can like
attack the first one and scoop into the second one
(49:26):
or vice versa rather than scooping into both of them
but if you love scooping
I'm not gonna be the one telling you you can't do it
yeah um
that was something that I used to do a lot
more um
without really even knowing I was doing
it was just kind of it was a bad habit
yeah more than anything um
(49:47):
and uh
you know early
early on I think
it was just my inability to have the muscle control
uh huh to just commit to the note
yep yep
right off the bat so every
(50:09):
broken okay
how was that
I I was scooping on the first one
wasn't I yeah
yeah and that's okay finding yeah
well and that's also
I changed chords there and I think that's
that's probably why I'm scooping as I'm
I'm yeah
moving away from the one go again
from where you start the strumming
cause you strum before you get into the chorus
(50:43):
I'm never broken mm hmm
mm hmm mm hmm
mm hmm mm hmm
this time you scooped more on the second one
than on the first one did you notice
yeah
haha
and again it's not right or wrong or better or worse
it's just something else you can try right
cause like the song is very conversational right
(51:04):
and so you're you're doing it a lot throughout the song
and because you're changing it up here
where it's more powerful you're strumming on the guitar
rather than the fingerpicking
all of that I'm like okay
well
maybe we can also try and eliminate some of the scoops
and attack a little bit more
to give it even more power
to make the contrast even bigger
sure right
and again it's just an idea
and if that makes it easier for you
(51:27):
awesome if it makes it harder
like I don't wanna make your life harder
right I mean
it's definitely something I'm gonna have to practice
yeah
I'm gonna go home and woodshed on that one a little bit
um
try when you're practicing it
practice it on BA BA BA BA BA BA actually
let's try that here right now
drop the lyrics and you're just doing BA BA BA BA
(51:57):
something like that yeah
because you can't scoop on BA on BA cause the
you can't sustain the letter BA right
BA BA BA BA BA BA doesn't work BA like ah
you can so we wanna make sure that it's not BA BA BA
but rather BA BA BA
you're starting right on top of that note
so when you're singing every every
(52:19):
it's much easier than BA BA BA right
to scoop up on every okay
so that's why
if you're doing a consonant that you can't sustain
when you wanna practice your attacks
that's gonna help you
attack more and then obviously
kick the ball to the curb and do it on every again
every also do you know what glottal attacks are
(52:42):
I have yeah
OK I
I lost that one yeah hahaha
so a glottal attack is that uh
uh uh sound
so when I say every
you hear that clicking sound like that uh
every it's not every
it's every little clicking sound at the beginning
uh and so that also makes it easier to attack a note
(53:03):
so every compared to every
like kind of like easing into the note
it's more like every
in following uh huh yeah
so that's another thing you can
you could do as well
that is a little harsher on your vocal folds
a glottal attack
because your vocal folds are literally like
(53:23):
pressed together before the air comes up
and once the air comes through
they open and then
smack back together to give you that clicking sound
now we use it in our everyday
like as English speakers
like if I was yelling at my dog
yeah we use it all the time
we use it all the time and even just now
right and
and even it's in our it's
(53:45):
it's in our language everywhere
sure all the time
and so it's not necessarily a bad thing
it's just something that we wanna be mindful of
when we are running into stamina issues
but that's not necessarily the case here
so that was
that's just another little trick that you can use
to attack that note more
rather than scooping up to it interesting
okay so the bar or the glottal attack okay
(54:07):
or glottal stop or glottal onset
that's the same so that's why I showed up
I Learned something so there you go
that was the goal that was the goal right
but yeah that
that could again
just give it a little bit more contrast
in your vocal performance right
sure either way
you're gonna sound great thank you
this is a small detail yeah
well it's those small details that add up though
(54:29):
exactly you know what when
when you play guitar
um
you know there's
there's a technique called shading oh
that's like if I play by the bridge
you know you hear like that
that that attack on the high note
yeah yeah
but you know if I play
(54:51):
and you know you can blend that
yeah you know
and um
you know there's
there's all kinds of minutia you can get into
from changing the material
that your pick you know
there's all these other things that you can do um
you know to me
like learning how to sing
you know with a breath year
(55:11):
uh huh you know
that's what I'm trying to essentially do with my voice
is to bring more shading more yeah
more colorations
I love that and still be in tune and still
you know all that fun stuff that we have to think about
as musicians of course
of course but um
you know I
I definitely
um kind of I'm sick and tired of just like
(55:33):
it's like the monotonic
not in like they only sing one note
it's the whole but it's like
they sound the same no matter what they're singing
no matter what you know um
there's no expression there hmm
mm hmm you know
I wanted to
I wanted this song to breathe and be expressive
yeah and to move yeah
um you know
on the record you know
(55:55):
what the band is doing uh
you know there's a lot of musical movement
there's crescendos there's
you know yes
big giant snare drums that come in wow okay
um
yeah I can't wait to hear the whole thing
I'll send you a link yes
oh get a little sneaky
but yeah it's a
you know for me
this song it was gonna be the last track of the album
(56:17):
it's gonna be kind of OK
the opus nice everything yeah
so I really
um you know I
I originally tracked it to a metronome
as everything's gonna be like
very tight very rigid mm hmm
I'm gonna do one pass with the
with the metronome just turned off
it was just me and the guitar
singing it live on the floor okay
uh you know
and everything else was just
(56:37):
gonna have to deal with that
cause that's the tempo yeah
that's where it's so
you know I
and that's actually where I sped it up
you know where it goes into that belted chorus
yeah and
you know
kinda built the tempo and yeah
built up to it and uh
trying to find a way to articulate all that movement
mm hmm without the band
with my voice just with the guitar and the voice
(57:00):
mm hmm you know
that's that's the goal
that's why I came today with this song yeah
you know I love
I have other song I mean there's
you know there's a whole
you know here's next
next season you know yeah
next season oh
I love it on season two
thank you yeah
I mean all of your stuff is there
you're obviously you know
what you're doing like I said before
(57:20):
just the teeny
tiny minor little details where it's like okay
what can we adjust to make it a
easier to sing right
a little bit more effortless
and B also still keep the character of it and uh
build the dynamics build the contrast
and have fun with it
while still making sense of the story of the song
(57:40):
cause at the end of the day
that's really important yeah
you know right
you don't wanna like pop it up so much
that you lose the gravity of what I'm saying exactly
exactly um
so yeah yeah
play around with those things
and again it's just well
now I'm gonna actually have to watch this episode
yeah yeah
watch back and do when am I supposed to practice again
(58:02):
but no it's
it's just basically
what I want you to think of is basically
you're just adding more tools to your tool belt sure
yeah and that's really it yeah
another another color to the crayon box yes
yeah I love it
do you have any questions about
the stuff that we talked about
not really I mean
I I felt like I actually understood it awesome
(58:23):
um you know
I think yeah
like 19 year old me coming into voice lessons
you know
I would have had no concept of where to even start yeah
it was to asking questions and yeah
what I was even you're gonna try to do
mm hmm um
you know now
you know 20 years later
I would come in with
(58:43):
I think a little bit more vision of what I'm
of course what I'm going to present to you yeah
um but yeah
this this really helped awesome
so I'm so glad to hear that yeah
thank you for for coming in and showing us
and giving us all a preview
we're the first ones to hear it pretty much yeah
just let me believe that
if that's not the case don't tell me like
(59:04):
just let me believe it
there's like three people who have heard this song
so your wife maybe one of them yeah
me No. 2 no
I'm just kidding but yeah
thank you so much for sharing
my dog your dog
there you go there you go
she was there when I wrote it
so you know
you know it's okay
it's okay I can be second in line to your dog
or third in line to your dog and your wife hahaha
but it's a beautiful song
(59:24):
can't wait to hear the whole thing um
I'll be sure to to link to your
your website as well yeah
I'm on check you know
pretty much all the socials that matter
yeah at Caleb Hawkins or uh
Caleb B Hawkins
Caleb B Hawkins
I had to put my middle initial in there
OK for some stupid reason
yeah so
cause Caleb Hawkins probably
cause I own my website but somebody had my yep exactly
(59:47):
so yeah
yeah yeah
he's a football player in Texas
ah
sports
haha whatever
very cool well
I'll link to all of that so we can
you know catch you release when it comes out
yeah I'm
I'm very excited I'm shooting for uh
July so OK perfect
so this will come out right around the same time then
(01:00:07):
so great alright
well that will work
yeah yes
maybe we can coordinate that
yeah maybe we can
yeah that'd be awesome
well so I had a couple of songs that I didn't make
a little EP I put out in 2,015 okay uh
so I kind of had like this
I was gonna make another EP
and I was gonna work with my friend
(01:00:28):
Ashley Peacock again yeah
I did the Wooden Wire album
um and I
at the time I lived in Florida and he lived in Michigan
okay so it was like
there's the logistics but then in 2,016
I moved up here um
a lot of different stuff just kind of coincided
different things happened
um
(01:00:49):
and finally in 2,019
we were gonna get together
and we're gonna record that fall
uh huh uh
but in April of 2,019 uh
he lost his
his battle with mental illness and he took his life
I mean realistically
it was two years before I felt like doing anything
and we had a pandemic yeah
we had all these different things happen
(01:01:10):
and I did not really feel right yeah
going into the studio and
and you know
working at the helm by myself
uh huh uh
you know I was so used to having him in the room yeah
working with me and you know
is that really what you want to say
hmm hmm
(01:01:31):
no yeah hahaha
you know like
now you really want to go home and rewrite the song
you know yeah yeah
um I had enough
songs written that I could easily just make an EP
but I really wanted to make an album I
I didn't want to make another EP
cause I mean realistically
when you sell those physical copies
like EP's were 5 bucks and albums were 10 bucks
and they cost the same amount to duplicate
(01:01:53):
so I wanted to have a full yeah
you know like a finished album
uh so in 2022
I kind of hit a stride as a writer again uh
and in about six weeks I wrote something like 25 songs
whoa it was just like getting up every morning
alright put the teapot on
(01:02:14):
brew my Earl Grey
sit down on the desk
you know it
do you read Austin Kleon's books
The Steal like an artist in that whole series
I'm a really bad reader um
no I don't
I'm sorry haha
well there's audio books too
and he's got a lot of other yeah
he's got other outlets but um
he has this whole thing about how
you gotta get in the chair
hmm uh huh
(01:02:35):
you know you wanna be a writer
you gotta get in the chair
you wanna be a painter get in the chair
it's different assume the position
you know you gotta get
you gotta get in that
and for this glorious six week span
I just I had this
this schedule that just was like okay
from 8:00am to noon
I have no interruptions I
(01:02:56):
and so I treated it as a job
yeah for six weeks straight
you know
it's just like being under contract as a freelancer
like okay
I have a job for six weeks
so six weeks is I get to write
yeah you know
and it was
it was me at the kitchen table with my little
writing stuff and I had a dog crawled up at my feet
it was winter time so it was great
yeah
(01:03:16):
out of that you know this song came out
you know really about half the record
hmm came out of that
wow so um yeah
when I say like it was a 10 year process
um you know
I would kind of go in the studio and stuff
just wouldn't feel right I just
I wasn't emotionally yeah
(01:03:37):
healed enough to even go in the studio and do that yeah
um
and then there's the RPM challenge that happens every
February okay
it's record production month
and it's like
thousands of people all across the world get together
and they log into this discord server
and they kind of like
build each other up and encourage each other yeah
(01:03:57):
and they make a record in 28
29 days on leap year wow
and so I I did one in 2009 um
and that was the last year I did it
just for whatever reason every year after that
like February was like the busiest month of my life
you know yeah
every year as if I could never see it coming
(01:04:18):
you know yeah
I'd sign up every year but I'd never do it yeah
and then um
this year I just said alright
I'm literally just gonna start saying no to people
as far as like
contract working things that I do
you know it's recording sessions
yeah there's three guys that I told
I wasn't gonna produce their record
cause I was gonna get mine done hmm
(01:04:39):
you know I'm gonna get mine done
I love your music
you guys know who you are
I can very much relate to that
but it was like all right
I gotta do this one for me yeah
and once I get my slate clean
then I can go work with you again
uh huh but I needed to get that out of the way yeah
um so I just kind of
hunkered down and didn't come out of my studio
(01:05:00):
you know and
um
really I
I think
I actually recorded the bulk of it in about eight days
okay and that wasn't even like
you know 8 hour days
that was just like yeah
going in when I um
that's fast but then it was
you know adding all the little textures and the new
yeah yeah
and all that yeah
so
but that's so awesome and then there was
(01:05:21):
you know the other month of second guessing myself
I suck don't listen to it too much
because then you start hearing things that
it's like this literally doesn't matter
like don't like what ah
I was just at a vocal production workshop with um
Simone Torres she's a vocal producer
and she said
80% done and released is better than 99% perfect
(01:05:44):
and not released
I think that I gained a lot of ground as a vocalist
when I because I mean
every independent artist we record ourselves
we have the the laptop and the audio interface
and we make our little records
and I used to just hate going through
and having to listen to my vocal take yeah
and it just like I wasn't at peace with it yeah
(01:06:07):
and um
finally I just
I stop taking my own vocals so personally and seriously
and just was like that's what I sing like
uh huh uh huh alright yeah
that's that's it
you know you can change your microphone
you can change the reverb
you can you know
you can do all those things
but that's what you sound like you
you need to be at peace with that
(01:06:28):
if you're not at peace
with the fact that you sound that way
we always start with that with our students
like when they enroll in voice lessons first
let's let's make sure that you like the way you sound
yeah and then we can focus on everything else
because as long as there's that mental block
it's gonna be impossible for you to actually get
what do you want that is a huge
(01:06:48):
huge thing I hear so many people
I hate my voice so they don't even sing at all
it's exactly well
you're not gonna get any better
cause you you
you just yeah
you clamped up you shut up and you said oh
I'm just I'm not musical yeah
yeah yeah
you know no
you're right come on
you know make
make peace with with the way your voice sounds
(01:07:09):
you know if I played you stuff from when I was
you know like 21
mmm hmm versus what I just sang now
I mean you wouldn't even think it was the same
yeah singer
it's totally different I
I don't sound like that mmm hmm
that vocalist at all I'm
you know but that's the beauty of the voice
it keeps evolving as you grow
you know well and
and this isn't this isn't NFL sports
(01:07:31):
no it's not like you turn 40 and you have to retire
or you're gonna get killed
yeah you know
I mean how many singers do we know of that sound like
better at 70 than they did when they were in their 20s
like like I
you know Johnny Cash
I get a lot of people compare me to Johnny Cash
when I'm singing in my lower register
(01:07:52):
I love Johnny Cash's you know
like folks in prison those
you know those 50 Sun records
I mean you can tell who it is
you know it's Johnny Cash
there's still that that essence of
of the man in black
but there's 50 years of life
yeah in there
and he sounds so much mature when he sings hurt
you know
(01:08:13):
it's not the same singer yeah
because it's not the same guy
oh yeah
you know and that's so beautiful about the voice
it is and it's a lifelong thing
you're gonna continue to get better and different
and explore and that's the beauty
that's the thing though
like
if you don't make peace with the way you sing already
you know or or at least sound
(01:08:34):
it's gonna be even harder to get good
well yeah
because on the mental tension
like the your whole judgment
I suck I can't sing in tune
if you keep telling yourself that you won't
that is exactly right so no singing is 90% mental
you're totally right but yeah
well hey
thank you so much for sharing anytime
(01:08:55):
anytime please come back and uh
um I'll again
I'll link to your music
so that everybody can check out your stuff
anything else and well
I tend to be a very obsessive person
I've been obsessed with music
since I was about 2 or 3 years old yeah
you know I'm a fifth generation musician
I am on the autism spectrum
(01:09:16):
if nobody could tell that's
that's fine
but I have a Monday newsletter that I send out okay
it's called Obsession News
uh huh
and it's really me just showing my geeky dorky side
I love it um
but I have a little like maybe 1
2 paragraphs it's just a life update
maybe an album update about how it's going
or where it's you know
where it's at um
(01:09:36):
but then I always share
like at least 5 things that I think are cool
there's usually like archival footage of
I don't know it might be Elefants
Gerald and Joe Pass okay
um you know
that was one week
I usually show some eye candy of a musical
instrument that I discovered
that I thought was really cool
really cool guitar um
(01:09:57):
or you know
just just a
a piece of musical equipment that I think is cool
cause every musician I know
you know they're always chasing the next guitar yeah
so I show that um
but it comes out roughly every Monday
okay
and it's called obsession news and people can sign up
I I promise perfect
at least 1 week a month it'll be interesting for you
okay hahaha
(01:10:18):
we'll link to that as well
so we can all geek out together yeah
there's I love it there's always something
I love it thank you so much for sharing
thanks for coming in and we'll catch you next time okay
alright yeah
I have to write another song
there you go perfect haha
thank you for tuning in everybody
and we'll see you in the next episode bye bye
OK
LA LA LA LA
10% less punch on that first law
LA LA LA LA okay
there you go one more time
LA LA LA LA know my pain
all over great
just to make it easier to sing
(00:24):
the is has a lot of emphasis OK
right so just to make it easier on you to sing
not to change the songwriting or anything like that
um can you make the word is shorter
so rather than know my pain is
all over ooh
(00:45):
that was nice how'd that feel
a little easier
yeah holding that word out less uh
shifted the phrasing around for me
uh huh uh huh
it was also a little softer
mm hmm right little
little gentler
I definitely felt a little bit more relaxed
(01:10):
hey Vox Star and welcome to from singer to artist
I'm Lara Chapman award winning singer and songwriter
turned viral vocal coach and the host of this show
at VoxTape Studios
we help singers from all over the world
level up their voices
by teaching them the three fundamental skills
all singers need technique
awareness and artistry whether you're looking to go pro
(01:31):
or just develop your voice for fun
my team and I are here to help
check the link in the description
to book your first session
or grab some of our other resources Alrighty
are you ready let's get started
are you ready for another voice lesson with me
I have somebody in my little home studio
my little recording studio
welcome Caleb Hawkins
thank you for having me thank you for being here
(01:53):
we met in 2019 I believe
that must have been 2019 it was at least yeah
so at least yeah
18 or 19 six or seven years ago
yes and we've been trying to make this happen
I think in some capacity
not ever since and finally whatever six
seven years later here we are
we met at an open mic night
and a lot of people always ask me like oh
(02:15):
how do I meet musicians how do I get a gig out there
and I always say open mic nights
go to an open mic you know
when I lived in Florida I played six nights a week
oh wow
it was like Tuesday night through Sunday night
we were somewhere it was just set up
go set up
go every single night
(02:36):
Monday was my night off uh huh
but that was when the best open mic was
so you still went out and you played
at least for 20 minutes yeah
because
that was where you met your next line of collaborators
that was and at least in some open mics
they do this really well where they have like
the room off to the side
that you can tune in before you go up
so yeah
(02:57):
you're not wasting your 20 minutes
just trying to get your instrument
I did more business in the side room
and I got more gigs from being in there
I I wouldn't like sit at the bar
I wouldn't even take more time out in the dining room
more than just like all right
I got my sandwich uh huh
I gotta I gotta go hang yeah yeah yeah
(03:17):
no because well
those were my colleagues those were my peers
those were yep
hey can you cover for me
and you know
and all of a sudden you just booked three shows
you know so
and collaborators like you said before as well
right clients
you know
cause I was producing records and stuff like that
so I had guys coming in there you go
so you know
we we live in a digital world now
(03:38):
and I mean I'm kind of guilty of that
we only teach online
unless you're coming in to record a podcast episode
right hahaha
other than that we only
you mean zoom wasn't an option for this
I could have just hahaha
I just done it from the computer
I mean you can
there's literally no difference
I can hear you just as well
but when it comes to you know
more fun it is
(03:59):
and when you when you go and like play out and uh
you know like you wanna meet other people peers
then that's still one of the best ways to do it yeah
I think every every actual
like
meaningful relationship I've developed in the music
business has been from
like face to face conversation
there you go so yeah you know
(04:20):
it's a lot easier to ignore the direct message
and the email and the whatever
not for me I'm not that kind of person but yes
for most people 100% I get anxiety when I
for brand endorsements things like that
it's a lot easier to go to the trade show
go to the conference yeah
so yeah there's still a lot of value in that
100% go to concerts
(04:41):
where the bands that play the kind of music you like
go'cause you're gonna start getting to know their fans
too so yeah
that carries over absolutely
absolutely 100% um
one of my friends his name is Michael Walker
he owns Modern Musician
and he did that when he was on tour with his band
he called it tour hacking where he would you know
(05:01):
for the for other bands
he would just go in their audience and like
show them his music like his band's music yeah
because like he would like open up for them
and so like they would be familiar with him anyways
but they're like where you like this stuff
you might like my stuff and so
he kind of built a fan base like that with his band
it depends on the genre I mean
you could probably do that at like
(05:22):
you know a heavy metal show
a little bit more invisibly than like a singer
songwriter sensitive finger style
folky act where it's like
you're not supposed to talk
well there
well no no
no that was like before
yeah like not during the show
like
when they were waiting outside to get into the venue
yeah not during the show
don't talk during the show
yeah there's a line where it becomes tacky and annoying
don't be that person no
(05:43):
don't be that person definitely not
definitely not um
right before we started rolling cameras
you were quickly like or not so quickly hahaha
telling me about your your vocal journey
and can you maybe just real quick go over that again
we should have just basically hit record
I know we should have stairs
we should have
(06:03):
so in the last few years
I've had more people talking about my vocal
than my instrumentation
which is kind of a weird shift for me
yeah uh
cause
I've always considered myself an instrumentalist first
and you know
in that early 20s you know
late teens years trying to get like sideman gigs
like can I be your guitar player
(06:24):
can I can I
can I play you know yeah
um I
I started hanging out with some guys who were
from Nashville professional sideman
you know I'd go to their concert
you know they're like the big festival show
and I'd sneak backstage and talk to these guys
I asked this guy like how do you get a gig
he's like can you sing
hmm like you don't have to be like a lead singer
but can you sing backing vocals or at least like
(06:45):
you know you don't even have to be like a part singer
singing harmonies but at least
you know like a doubling effect or something
yeah he's like
that'll get you a lot farther
hmm he's like
you know
I use this mantra a lot any idiot can play guitar yeah
not me not this idiot
but you know
but you know
I can pretend but it carries over
it's like you know
(07:05):
guitar players are a dime a dozen
guitar players who can sing are all of a sudden
more like hmm
you know a quarter a dozen yeah
you know and they can do it well
are more like you gotta pay a dollar OK
per you know
and so um
that was like OK
I gotta learn how to sing hmm
(07:28):
oh no
another thing I gotta do and
you know
I was telling you before the cameras were rolling
like it was the dark ages kids you
you you couldn't just like
go and Google search and find
like a vocal teacher on the internet
I mean we had a wonderful dial up internet
you know yeah
you know so that kind of is like well
what can I teach myself you know
I'm a homeschool kid so it's like
(07:49):
you know you kind of just learn this stuff
so I got the Roger Love book
tried going through that found it was more for like
voice over and radio personalities
at least that's what I was feeling from it
and I got the Mark Baxter
Rock and Roll Singer Survival Manual
which helped a lot it was a lot more practical
(08:11):
you know
like the value of what sleep does to your vocals
does affect it that helped a lot
just you know
started working through some of that
started realizing
the things that I was doing in my life
that were affecting my vocal
more than anything else um
I did find a teacher who first thing the guy did was
(08:32):
he sat me down on a digital piano
was like alright what's your range
I don't know my what
so he's like okay
here's middle C can you hit that note
okay you can hit that note okay
can you hit the G below middle C
I don't know
and it was like just kind of working it out okay
(08:53):
so I can hit
all the way up here to like an a below high C
and I can hit like an F below middle C
it was like where I kind of started out
it was like oh
well at least now I know that yeah
yeah yeah
and um so one of the things that um
I think it was in Baxter book
but he said that a singer who knows their limitations
(09:16):
and learns to work within those
will seem limitless versus a singer
that is constantly trying to hit the note
that they actually can't yeah
they will always look like they're struggling
no matter what it is they say
because they are struggling
they are struggling yeah
and they're always gonna look like they're
they're not as good yeah
(09:37):
because you know like oh
you can't hit the note well yeah
but if you would have just sang that like a step lower
you would have been fine 100%
I talk about that all the time
I call this your prima voce
the sweet spot of your voice
and like sticking within that as much as possible
at least when you're performing
when you're practicing
and you're trying to actively expand your skill set
(09:58):
you do wanna push outside of that to get better right
like if you never step outside of your comfort zone
you're not gonna get better yeah
and and that
that was kind of the thing that happened for me too
cause I I started realizing
that the material that I wanted to sing was
you know outside of my range
it's like okay
well you know
how do I gain diaphragm strength
you know how do I
(10:19):
how do I support and uh you know
at some point there um
you know of course
I had to go through puberty and all that awkward
fun stuff yeah
but things just kind of clicked
and I sort of fell into a range that was like
all right I I can
I can work with this and I can
I can get a little into the higher notes
(10:39):
but I can I can delve more in these lower notes
you know being a skinny
white kid walking into a bar and hitting these like
you know Johnny Cash low notes
and rattling beer cans on the bar was like
that's how you got attention
you know
you don't go out there and just sing the screaming
high note and expect they've seen that yeah
what they haven't seen is somebody go out there
(11:00):
and just absolutely
rattle the paint yeah
off the walls I love it
rattle the paint off the walls yeah
so I I was doing that pretty well
until I had my tonsils taken out in 2,015
I had chronic tonsillitis for a long time
and it was it was like
all right we've got to do this yeah
(11:20):
um and I lost a lot of that low end in that
some of it came back it took 10 years
wow um
it's only been in the last little while that I've got
some of it but
I gained more head voice
on the other side of that surgery
so it's like well yeah
I lost some chest voice but I gained like
you know half an octave up mm hmm
(11:41):
that's interesting yeah
so I
honestly don't know enough about
how that affects a singer's voice
it's probably different from yeah
I mean person to person
I think that it's it's definitely gotta be like
you know very unique and
and personal to the singer
yeah you know
unique biology
(12:01):
what I've researched on it um
you know Eddie Lang was this amazing jazz guitar player
in the 1930s he was having chronic tonsillitis
uh was wanting to get into singing cause he was like
I could make more money if I could play and sing
uh huh and uh
a young celebrity singer named Bing Crosby
convinced him to have his tonsils taken out
(12:21):
oh okay
and he didn't come out of anesthetic
he died on the operating table
no way I mean
this is in the 30s
so I'm not trying to scare anybody off of it now
I'm sure we got much better
yeah but
you know
wow you know
that is crazy I wish I had known that story before
I got my tonsils taken out
you know I only Learned that last year
(12:42):
but it's it's almost like
I mean it's
it's nothing like it but it kind of reminds me of like
when when people say like
if you wanna have like a nice edge to your voice
pick up smoking you know
it's like that's just not good advice
it's not good life advice
yeah um yeah
you know there are proper techniques
if you wanna add a little heat
yes exactly
(13:03):
some of them don't sound that good
not trying to single anybody out
but I don't know like that that's a whole sound I mean
we can do a whole episode on
on like affectations on vocals
I would love to do an episode on that yeah
just react to it where you know
you can tell it's fake hmm um
(13:24):
that was something that I think early on
I refused to do okay
I said I'm I'm I'm gonna sing like me
I'm not gonna try to like
sing like Tom Waits or something
that's awesome and yeah
I do sing some Johnny Cash material at shows
and stuff like that'cause it's a cover gig
and it's what you do when you're in a bar
but yeah um
you know I really uh
(13:45):
I put my foot down fairly early said I'm
this is what I've got uh huh
this is what I do and I think that's good yeah
cause you know
people were trying to get me to sing opera
like there was every other concept of what
I could be making way more money
if I sang the way they wanted to hear me sing
versus what I actually wanted to express myself with
(14:05):
hmm so there is it's hard finding that line
especially when it's your your job right
it's like oh
how much do you adjust but it's great when you
do the things that really fill your cup
because then it's more authentic
and it translates better well
and you know
the voice is really the only instrument that the
the musician has to create themselves
(14:27):
you can't just walk into a guitar center
and buy a voice yeah
oh my God wouldn't that be great man
I mean AI is getting there
kind of getting there but you know
that's a whole other thing
yeah um
we should do an episode where we analyze AI
vocal faults yeah
there you go oh my God
we're like oh
(14:48):
that would actually be really interesting
it's a good idea
to hear the computer trying to do vocal faults
to sound more realistic
but you know you really
I mean
you're born with the vocal cords you're born with
and you have to learn how to get them in tune
you have to learn how to maintain it and build that
yeah that material
so
but I'm so glad that you say you have to learn how to
right you're born with it
(15:09):
but then you have to learn how to actually use it
yeah I hate those kids who are just born singing great
haha yeah
it's just they like they have like that angelic voice
perfect technique perfect posture
perfect phrasing ah
screw you haha
well there's definitely
I had to work for this yeah
no I mean
there's absolutely like
(15:29):
natural talent plays a role in it
but they wouldn't have that angelic voice
had they not also used it exactly yeah
so um
you know it's a little bit of both
there are there's really only like
a couple of singers
I can think of that were just naturally that good
right off the bat that people were like
oh my gosh you're amazing
I wanna sign you to a record label
(15:49):
Florence and the machine and she gets a pass
hmm like I actually didn't follow the early career
so I don't I don't follow it real close
but I guess she was drunk
singing in a bathroom somewhere
and somebody heard her was like
oh my gosh really
now I don't know
if she could still do it when she was sober
I don't I don't know any of that
but hey it kind of turns off the brain
and when you don't overthink everything
(16:10):
it makes it a little bit easier sometimes
yeah it makes it harder
for every other musician to work with you
if you can only perform no schnockered
but like that
I'm not trying to tell people to get drunk to sing
that is not a good I mean
not healthy not a good habit
some people are gonna do it anyway
fair fair
but you know don't make it happen
(16:32):
it's not gonna serve you in the long term
but make good choices make good choices
yes yes
yes anyways
so you brought in an original song
yes so the river
I think it's called right
yes uh
this one is um
it's a relatively new piece for me
it's not out yet okay
it is recorded it's as far as that side of things
(16:52):
it's done um
but I'm I'm working on uh
you know I mean
in the studio you have the luxury of isolation
and being able to really hone in on things
but mmm hmm uh
this is gonna be a really
I feel for me at least a really challenging song
OK to bring live to bring it uh
you know I don't have overdubs and all the
(17:14):
the orchestration that I put on the
on the yep album track um
so yeah it's a
it's a little Celtic and there's a little blues in here
okay cool yeah
so awesome well
I would say um
let's just go through it so we can get to know the song
see what we're working with
do like a complete pass through and then it
(17:36):
how repetitive is it uh
it's not very repetitive at all okay
so then let's do the whole thing
I think I sing the chorus twice in the whole song okay
so yeah then let's do the whole thing
cause you know with like pop songs
it's usually pretty repetitive and you get the
you get the picture pretty quickly
yeah I love it
I'm not gonna lie yeah
but you know not your style and so well no
(17:56):
I mean there's
there's certain things I enjoy
but yeah I
I as a musician I
I zone out with that stuff
like if we sing that same phrase more than three times
I did a Ramones tribute show one time okay
and we're doing the Ramones and I realized like
they basically sing these lines like six times
and I would get to like four
(18:18):
and my head would reset the clock and I go
is this the fifth or the sixth
yeah yeah
yeah or are we doing
I think one time we did it like seven times through
cause we'd lost count yeah
I just wasn't used to repetition
I don't know how to count when I'm doing yeah
fair fair enough
so most of my stuff uh
doesn't repeat too much okay
(18:39):
okay well let's
let's have a look uh
let's have you play through it
okay and then
and then we'll go from there okay
alright alright
so hahaha you got it
I believe in you I believe in you
hahaha and you brought your beautiful guitar
yes I did
this was built by my wonderful friend
Sean Gordon out of Wheaton Illinois
(19:00):
he uh
gave this to me in February to uh
experiment with and try out
so yeah it's
it's a beautiful instrument
yeah it's
it's a lot of fun I really yeah
so that's amazing thank you Sean
shout out to Sean right there you go
(21:26):
wow
beautiful beautiful
it's a hard one to sing yeah
you know
I'm not playing like a normal three chord progression
I'm playing in an open tuning
so um
(21:47):
you know some of the chords are kind of
implied some of them are um
just basically drones mmm hmm um
I could not play and sing at the same
like the way you're playing yeah
I can play chords and sing well
I couldn't do this two years ago either
so OK
practice um practice yeah um
(22:07):
you know I really got into a lot of um
like British and Celtic folk artists
uh I guess kind of my boredom with sort of the
the Americana sound that's gotten really popular
right now it's like
it's almost and this hair metal phase of it
where it's very formulaic
you know a lot of tremolo on the guitars
a lot of reverb on the vocals yeah
(22:28):
um you know
I was kind of looking at okay
what are some of these guys like
from the British isle singing like
and some of that more traditional material
mm hmm and what I quickly found out was the guys
more or less just talk yeah
instead of sing and the women circular breathe
(22:50):
oh I swear to God
they circular breathe
cause there is no other way you're gonna phrase a song
the way they're doing this um
if you haven't listened to Lisa Hannigan yet
I have not um
she well
she kind of
gained her popularity by being the backup singer
for Damian Rice okay
okay you know
(23:10):
when he had that explosion in the early
early 2 she was backing him um
and then she split away from
him she got a solo career
I don't know she's done some amazing things
um but during lockdown
uh Ireland uh
has this wonderful YouTube channel called Other Voices
okay and it's sort of like Ireland's Tiny Desk okay
(23:31):
cool to put it in perspective of what it is
and um
couple years ago I stumbled on it
I didn't watch it when it was in the height of lockdown
and they were doing these
but she was at the I think
it's like the Irish National Archive or something
and she sang this
song that was like
how does she breathe okay where
(23:54):
where does the air come from
you know I gotta write a song like that
you know okay
bad idea no
hard to sing then right um
but yeah so I mean
there's
within that song I
I kind of truncated some of the original
cause we're focused on the
the singing not just all of the yes
(24:14):
the yeah
the playing I would love to help you with that
but you know a lot more than I do
yeah OK
so you do get the drying effect
yes the more breath you use
the more there you go
yeah take a sip of water
but yeah the more breath you use
the more dry you do get yes technically um
but uh
a lot of times
what happens when we sing with a breathy voice is
we're pushing actually more air out than we need
(24:37):
to sound breathy which is what's gonna dry you out
and what's gonna make you feel like
you're running out of breath
makes you go flat yeah
yes and it's just like
the endings of like a phrase are kind of like uh
you know like they're not beautifully ended
it's kind of like you're just kind of like fading out
yeah
you get to like the last word on the line and it's like
(24:58):
how do I get enough air exactly
exactly and this is a habit that I really um
I I like to say I kicked a long time ago
but you know
you'll see the singers do it
I'm I'm sure this probably drives you nuts
is you'll see the the shoulders going up
hmm because they're taking a big
they're breathing that way rather than like
(25:20):
you know yeah
and as a guitar player
it's hard to sometimes pull that diaphragm
because it moves your guitar
mm hmm so I personally
I'm not a belly breather at all
I hate it I can't stand it
I cannot get any breath in when I do that
so like just like
you know focusing on like pushing the belly out
like a kind of breath and that's
that's all I got and I barely got any breath in
(25:42):
because it feels so uncomfortable
yeah I'm a rib breather okay
three 60 breather
so I focus on breathing like right here into my ribs
not my waist but
my ribs up here and then it expands in all directions
right like front back
sideways and up and down too
so this is what feels a lot more comfortable to me okay
(26:03):
but it depends on the person you sure
you've mentioned the shoulders
that's called a clavicular breath
yeah uh
I honestly you know
cause I've heard the whole like oh
I look fat if I breathe you know
any other way it's like well
you look weird doing this all the time
yeah you know
you'd look a lot more natural if you were breathing
(26:24):
you know yeah
front to back rather than up and down
I mean yeah
I very rarely talk about where you should be breathing
where you should be feeling your breath okay
unless it's truly like a problem and you're like
overcomplicating it or whatever
because you know you know how to breathe
you've been on this earth for a couple decades
you know I mean
(26:45):
unless you're like asthmatic or something else that yes
exactly outside influences
but yeah yeah
and so yes
singing is a little bit more of an extreme version
for that but at the end of the day
it's the same thing as speaking
it's just a little bit more
so we don't have to overcomplicate it
um
we just need to make sure that the breath you do have
(27:06):
that we're using it efficiently right
that you're not having
more air leak through than you need
to
and that you're also taking breaths in the right spots
and
a three word phrase is a lot easier to get out than a
five yeah
oh yeah
for sure so yeah
um you know I
I can't remember now if we're talking about it
before the cameras were rolling
(27:28):
I used to like with my lyrics
which I think are just out of frame
but
you know I used to actually put like
a hash Mark somewhere on my vocal
to remind myself to breathe
which of course that all goes out the window
when you stop carrying the lyrics around with you
but yeah um
depends on how you practice it
some singers when I bring them in the studio I
(27:48):
I introduce that technique to them because they've
they've just never had
anybody even explain the concept of that
yeah um
you know
leaving the room to breathe within the melody or
you know knowing where to breathe
yes where to breathe and leaving the room
that's something that's very like typical for singers
like you know
people who are like I'm a singer first
(28:09):
they tend to over sing right
and then they six they extend and sustain every note
and I'm like hold on
don't do that first of all
it's not needed there's
we need the room not just to breathe
obviously to breathe as well
but also it just doesn't sound good
when you're sustaining every single note
well and sometimes you
(28:30):
know I've experienced it's like the
the dizziness of trying to do that too
it's just you know
you get a headache
and you start feeling a little nauseous from it um
you know
a song that I am really guilty of show boating with is
um
I go out and sing the boxer a lot okay
yeah um
cause it's a great song everybody knows it
(28:51):
everybody wants to sing the chorus if
you know if you've got a crowd who knows it
they wanna sing along
um of course
I being me I've got to overcomplicate the arrangement
yeah and I do this
you know crazy guitar work
yeah and
but I'll get to you know
the lie lie yeah
you know and I'll get to the last lie on the thing
and I'll try to hold it out
(29:12):
you know until I'm about ready to pass out
yeah yeah
yeah and
you know watch people just kind of like
oh wow
he's really good he should be on the Voice
yeah or whatever that
that moment is yeah
um
but uh
you know
I think the best thing that I ever did for my singing
um you know
(29:33):
I don't recommend this necessarily
but I was flat broke without any options
there was a recession on I needed money
mm hmm
I started busking on the streets of Broad Ripple
you know where the Starbucks is yeah
I would get there like way
way early and that
was my corner okay
and there was a hierarchy back then
I don't know if
I haven't been out there on a Saturday night forever
(29:54):
I don't know
but you had to like beat the panhandlers and
and the hobos and all these people out of that spot
cause that was the spot yeah
okay
and I would sing for four hours on a Saturday night oh
that's if I didn't have a gig yeah
I would just go out there with an instrument and
I mean you're dealing with traffic
(30:14):
you're dealing with
just the fact that everybody's on the move
so you gotta grab their attention
or you're not gonna get the dollar
you know and you
you would learn to project your voice off the plate
glass window the bar across the street
so you could hear the echo come back to you
and that really I gained a lot more power
okay uh
without hurting myself amazingly
(30:37):
that's good idea just from you know
having to flex that muscle no PA system no you know
electronic assistance at all
it was straight up just going out and you know
trying to grab people's attention yeah
and I did that for most of a summer okay
(30:57):
and
I think there are maybe better ways to accomplish that
but that's how I how I ate yeah
yeah and uh
but it also I came out of there
and I really felt like I was a singer finally okay um
you know
cause it's one thing to practice in your bedroom
or even to sing in coffee shops and
(31:18):
and play these you know
small gigs but
you know when you got to really go out there
and make a statement you know when
when you've got to make some noise
or you're not going to break even on the parking um
you know you sing a little differently yes
oh absolutely that
that was you know
into the crucible mm hmm
(31:40):
and you know
straight on the ground mm hmm
you know that was just um
that was a very intense about three months
yeah of doing that every Saturday night
that I didn't have a show
I mean of course
if I had a show I still sing
but yeah
yeah yeah
that was different that was
you know yeah
in a little bit more control
well
but that definitely helped you build up that stamina
(32:00):
it built up some muscle yeah
um and
you know like I said
amazingly I didn't blow my voice out yeah
uh huh
(32:26):
okay great
let's pause right there and no
my pain is all over um
can you no
my pain and I did that out of context
cause I was thinking too hard about yeah
yeah but um
yeah so when you're
when you're using a little bit more of a breathy voice
you're getting a little husky
which it's I
I really like it I enjoy that tone
um can you do just a little bit less on pain though
(32:50):
so that you can feel a little more supported
so for less attack on that word or um
a little more of a full closure
a little less breath okay
so the over is gonna feel a little more supported right
trying to figure out how to play that again hahaha
but I just go through it and I just do it
I think that's easier it's a muscle control thing
(33:11):
and yeah muscle memory kicks in
it's all over okay write that on my penis
(33:33):
is is
can you open up a little bit more on the word is OK
no my pain is all over
that's a little you know
it's like the notes not quite coming out
no my pain over now my pain is
over um
obviously that's just very clean vocals
(33:55):
sure uh
do it in your style can you just do it acapella
just that phrase no
my pain
no my pain is all over
okay fine
so like the vocalization or the yep
(34:15):
just the LA LA LA uh huh
LA LA
where's the note LA LA LA LA
it's not as high as you think it is
yeah yeah
LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA there it is
one more time LA LA LA LA great
now 10% less punch on that first law
LA LA LA LA OK
there you go one more time
LA LA LA LA
(34:44):
over great
just to make it easier to sing instead of no
my pain is all over like
really focusing on the word is'cause just lyrically no
my pain is all over right
that's the lyric mm hmm
is the word is is that an important word in that phrase
(35:07):
um
I guess it is I yeah
um what would you say
is the most important word in that phrase
know my pain is all over over
over the second
the last word in the phrase great
and what's the second most important word
um probably the second word my
my okay
(35:28):
uh I mean
you know if I'm speaking from first person in the song
that's where I would see it okay
okay what about the word pain
I mean that's like the symptom
so um
I I
I I guess I see all six words there as kind of equal
(35:49):
you see them as equal OK
OK pretty much
if I had to like
cut out words and still get the meaning of it
um I can still have like
my pain over right
so just those those 3 words
and I know the gist of the
of the phrase does that make sense
(36:10):
mm hmm right
so with the the way your melody is written
know my pain is all over the is has a lot of emphasis
OK right
so just to make it easier on you to sing
not to change the songwriting or
anything like that um
can you make the word is shorter
so rather than know my pain is
(36:32):
over it makes it a little easier to sing okay
so it's a little shorter
like you're barely making a change
nobody would really notice it
yeah I mean
it's only six words in the whole line there
so it's like trying to find where it fits timing wise
in the pocket mm hmm
um
yeah and you have to see like
does it work with how you're playing
(36:53):
like what you're playing on the guitar right
yeah
yeah so it
you're just removing
the emphasis of the word is a little bit
it's still there it's still the same note
it's just like a millisecond shorter
(37:26):
all over ooh
that was nice how'd that feel
a little easier
yeah holding that word out less uh
shifted the phrasing around for me
uh huh uh huh
um
it was also a little softer
mm hmm right little
little gentler
I definitely felt a little bit more relaxed cool
not trying to get through
(37:47):
you know yeah
trying to bust through that that
that last line of the verse
so that I can go to an instrumental and breathe again
yeah yeah
no I get that
I get that yeah
it it definitely felt a little more laid back
um more conversational too
which fits the song very well
uh I thought you nailed that
and because you didn't give it so much
(38:08):
umph right
so much power
you were actually all the way up on the note
sure which is nice
which is nice um
it definitely felt a lot easier
okay yeah
well and also you're just in the beginning of the song
right like
we don't have to do more than that
yeah to build the range
the dynamic range well
and I've noticed with American musicians
(38:29):
and I'm pointing a finger at myself here
is like we come out with everything right off
you know like as a guitar player
you know when you go play lead guitar for somebody
you know they give you the nod for the solo
you're just expected to just broom
get right into it you know
get out there and just you know
kill it in the first you know
(38:49):
two bars um
you know last year I started studying a little jazz
okay and I started studying with
a guitar player and teacher named Adam Levy
he worked with Norah Jones
like back when she broke out
and he was talking about like
there's a jazz superstition of how
(39:12):
and if you listen to um
the Cole Porter Monk
Wes Montgomery you know
the greats you know
um at some point in the
it might not be in the piece
but in the record there'd be a moment of phrasing
where they'll put two notes
uh huh you know but it'll
(39:36):
and they'll pause between
and the superstition is that's where you
meet god oh is in the phrasing okay
and the and when
one note has a bit of a chance to stand off on its own
so the the more dense
the more like nerdy
high information music that you're doing
um
(39:57):
you know somewhere they will put that moment
mm hmm on the record and um
I guess that's like a really old superstition
but probably I haven't heard of it
yeah I
it was it was news to me yeah
um but uh
you know I've heard a similar idea from uh
(40:20):
Mack Ganer who uh
was like a like part of the Muscle Shoals
like R&B
soul movement out of the Deep South in the 60s and 70s
um and he said
you know it's a space between those notes that you
that's where you
that's where you really find the good stuff
yeah um
yeah so
I've been striving for that
(40:40):
as a guitar player for a while now
and trying to find that as a vocalist is
you know
I think we kind of hit on that a little bit just now
yes yes
it's just little
tiny little details and leaving the space for it too
sure right
yeah that's
one of the things that
this song has been an exercise in
for me is
(41:02):
mm hmm
you know there's tension
and release yeah
and I'm still the one is down here
you know I wanna play like so I'm
we can work something out we can practice
um but trying to find that
that space and that cadence as well yeah
(41:25):
um and let this instrument breathe and
and do what it needs let it breathe
it goes back to the oversinging for voice
yeah right
let it breathe give it room
instrumentalist overplay singers over sing yeah
so why do we do that I don't know
but we all do who are we trying to impress
Simon Cowell
oh my God oh my God
(41:47):
let's let's move on to the set to just the next part
okay so go to the chorus yep
okay
(42:08):
alright those every
how are you feeling about those every
every that part
um
there's a lot of them yeah
the high ones I'm talking about the high ones
the first one and the last one every stream
every drop that's fallen every dream ever broken yeah
(42:32):
so what are those I didn't even realize that
about an octave apart between them
uh
yep it's an exact
are they wow
you're good I
your training's on point there you go
so with those with those everys
give me a slight smile every
so that you get just like a 5% more lift on the note
(42:54):
I can try I mean
it is a sad song I like just in your facial muscles
the smile there
every stream to
dream ever broken okay
(43:15):
okay so those
it's just on those top notes right
just a little so the every so
the the higher octave
yep the high one
the high D okay
that's a high d above middle C
Middle C is here so you're singing here
okay'cause like we're an octave apart
so like every every night
you're singing here every night and then
(43:39):
right I'm just doing it an octave higher
because otherwise it gets really low
well yeah
I was almost getting impressed with myself there
cause I didn't really like
look at where that I mean
you should be impressed with yourself
but
we are an octave lower than where I was demonstrating
OK so I was alright yeah
I was like oh yeah yeah yeah
imagine like I'm singing a d above high C really
(43:59):
you're a d above middle C OK
yeah I just like
which is still quite high actually
yeah yeah
no that that's that's
that's pretty darn good but yeah
just a slight little lift there
um so that way
you don't have to
rely on the force to get you up to the notes
like the
the power or the volume to get you up to the note
but rather the resonance
(44:20):
which is slightly changing the resonance
and that is the the gentle pass through that chorus
cause the last time I sing it
I'm kind of belting there you go
there you go
and so there you can make it darker right there
we can rely a little bit more on the force
but here let's keep it
a little softer um
and we can do that by changing the resonance
just lifting everything a little bit more
(44:41):
so we can still get all the way up to the note okay
and just on the high ones right
dream ever broken yeah
that that second one was really nice
(45:01):
or like the third every
the second high one what do you feel
a lot less uh
effort in that seems to be a theme
um yeah
um
you know
and I know this will all get a lot easier though
cause right now the song isn't even out so
you know everybody's hearing it first here
this is yeah
do you have a release date
(45:21):
I don't um
the album is done
I'm working kind of on the back end stuff
for all the TikTok stuff yeah hahaha
the release the promo yeah
um there you go
this is the premiere for
for the bulk of people who haven't yay
who aren't like on that inner circle
hey can you play this on your stereo
and tell me if it sounds yeah yeah
(45:42):
yeah that's that group of people
well thank you
we feel very special you should
yeah we do
we do
but yeah I mean
you're already like you
you obviously know the song
you wrote the song it fits your voice great
you sound amazing doing it
now it's just about the live performance aspect of it
delivery the delivery
and so we wanna reduce effort as much as possible
(46:04):
because what if you're three hours in
and you're singing that song
yeah still want to be able to
probably gonna close a lot of shows
there you go um
you know just reducing effort as much as possible
and getting the same or an even
quote unquote better result right yeah
no no
no ha ha ha yeah
so it's a it's a really weird yeah
(46:25):
weird out playing G but version of it yeah um
yeah that that's the
the torture I put myself through when I wrote this one
you know but it sounds beautiful
yeah it does
so thank you for torturing yourself
so we get to enjoy it well
I was I was trying to bring
you know the sound of a piano
yeah with me OK
cool with the guitar yeah
(46:45):
yeah so I have 2G chords that I'm playing
there's this one and there's that 1
mm hmm you know
this one's a little bit brighter yeah
but yeah you know
and then you're sustaining it so
we're going to a major 7
mmm mmm hmm you know
I wanted to uh
(47:07):
to have something that wasn't quite so repetitive
mmm um
so each verse as I kind of go
gets a little bit different
yeah
the chords don't change as much as I thought they would
(47:27):
for me
I'll be the whisper in the
yeah so that the whisper in the wind
that one um
(47:49):
that one was the one where at least in the studio
um
I really felt my most vulnerable
I still kind of want to carry that live
I want to continue that vulnerability
uh you know
out on the stage which certain venues
I don't know how well that would translate
cause people are just gonna be staring at their phone
(48:09):
and yeah yeah
you know whatever um
you know cause I
I play all the best
you know um
but uh
then it kind of from there on that
that sort of vulnerable moment is when I start yeah
(48:43):
okay and then I'm echoing it there
but yeah that's irrelevant
that's not singing but yeah
yeah yeah
um how okay
I liked that when you have all that force behind it
positive like a good kind of force
not like a squeezing kind of force right
um it really carries your voice out um
you're this is just an
(49:05):
as an option sure
you're kind of scooping up into all every right
every compared to like an every
and there's not a right way or a wrong way
this is just a different way of doing it um
maybe you can like
attack the first one and scoop into the second one
(49:26):
or vice versa rather than scooping into both of them
but if you love scooping
I'm not gonna be the one telling you you can't do it
yeah um
that was something that I used to do a lot
more um
without really even knowing I was doing
it was just kind of it was a bad habit
yeah more than anything um
(49:47):
and uh
you know early
early on I think
it was just my inability to have the muscle control
uh huh to just commit to the note
yep yep
right off the bat so every
(50:09):
broken okay
how was that
I I was scooping on the first one
wasn't I yeah
yeah and that's okay finding yeah
well and that's also
I changed chords there and I think that's
that's probably why I'm scooping as I'm
I'm yeah
moving away from the one go again
from where you start the strumming
cause you strum before you get into the chorus
(50:43):
I'm never broken mm hmm
mm hmm mm hmm
mm hmm mm hmm
this time you scooped more on the second one
than on the first one did you notice
yeah
haha
and again it's not right or wrong or better or worse
it's just something else you can try right
cause like the song is very conversational right
(51:04):
and so you're you're doing it a lot throughout the song
and because you're changing it up here
where it's more powerful you're strumming on the guitar
rather than the fingerpicking
all of that I'm like okay
well
maybe we can also try and eliminate some of the scoops
and attack a little bit more
to give it even more power
to make the contrast even bigger
sure right
and again it's just an idea
and if that makes it easier for you
(51:27):
awesome if it makes it harder
like I don't wanna make your life harder
right I mean
it's definitely something I'm gonna have to practice
yeah
I'm gonna go home and woodshed on that one a little bit
um
try when you're practicing it
practice it on BA BA BA BA BA BA actually
let's try that here right now
drop the lyrics and you're just doing BA BA BA BA
(51:57):
something like that yeah
because you can't scoop on BA on BA cause the
you can't sustain the letter BA right
BA BA BA BA BA BA doesn't work BA like ah
you can so we wanna make sure that it's not BA BA BA
but rather BA BA BA
you're starting right on top of that note
so when you're singing every every
(52:19):
it's much easier than BA BA BA right
to scoop up on every okay
so that's why
if you're doing a consonant that you can't sustain
when you wanna practice your attacks
that's gonna help you
attack more and then obviously
kick the ball to the curb and do it on every again
every also do you know what glottal attacks are
(52:42):
I have yeah
OK I
I lost that one yeah hahaha
so a glottal attack is that uh
uh uh sound
so when I say every
you hear that clicking sound like that uh
every it's not every
it's every little clicking sound at the beginning
uh and so that also makes it easier to attack a note
(53:03):
so every compared to every
like kind of like easing into the note
it's more like every
in following uh huh yeah
so that's another thing you can
you could do as well
that is a little harsher on your vocal folds
a glottal attack
because your vocal folds are literally like
(53:23):
pressed together before the air comes up
and once the air comes through
they open and then
smack back together to give you that clicking sound
now we use it in our everyday
like as English speakers
like if I was yelling at my dog
yeah we use it all the time
we use it all the time and even just now
right and
and even it's in our it's
(53:45):
it's in our language everywhere
sure all the time
and so it's not necessarily a bad thing
it's just something that we wanna be mindful of
when we are running into stamina issues
but that's not necessarily the case here
so that was
that's just another little trick that you can use
to attack that note more
rather than scooping up to it interesting
okay so the bar or the glottal attack okay
(54:07):
or glottal stop or glottal onset
that's the same so that's why I showed up
I Learned something so there you go
that was the goal that was the goal right
but yeah that
that could again
just give it a little bit more contrast
in your vocal performance right
sure either way
you're gonna sound great thank you
this is a small detail yeah
well it's those small details that add up though
(54:29):
exactly you know what when
when you play guitar
um
you know there's
there's a technique called shading oh
that's like if I play by the bridge
you know you hear like that
that that attack on the high note
yeah yeah
but you know if I play
(54:51):
and you know you can blend that
yeah you know
and um
you know there's
there's all kinds of minutia you can get into
from changing the material
that your pick you know
there's all these other things that you can do um
you know to me
like learning how to sing
you know with a breath year
(55:11):
uh huh you know
that's what I'm trying to essentially do with my voice
is to bring more shading more yeah
more colorations
I love that and still be in tune and still
you know all that fun stuff that we have to think about
as musicians of course
of course but um
you know I
I definitely
um kind of I'm sick and tired of just like
(55:33):
it's like the monotonic
not in like they only sing one note
it's the whole but it's like
they sound the same no matter what they're singing
no matter what you know um
there's no expression there hmm
mm hmm you know
I wanted to
I wanted this song to breathe and be expressive
yeah and to move yeah
um you know
on the record you know
(55:55):
what the band is doing uh
you know there's a lot of musical movement
there's crescendos there's
you know yes
big giant snare drums that come in wow okay
um
yeah I can't wait to hear the whole thing
I'll send you a link yes
oh get a little sneaky
but yeah it's a
you know for me
this song it was gonna be the last track of the album
(56:17):
it's gonna be kind of OK
the opus nice everything yeah
so I really
um you know I
I originally tracked it to a metronome
as everything's gonna be like
very tight very rigid mm hmm
I'm gonna do one pass with the
with the metronome just turned off
it was just me and the guitar
singing it live on the floor okay
uh you know
and everything else was just
(56:37):
gonna have to deal with that
cause that's the tempo yeah
that's where it's so
you know I
and that's actually where I sped it up
you know where it goes into that belted chorus
yeah and
you know
kinda built the tempo and yeah
built up to it and uh
trying to find a way to articulate all that movement
mm hmm without the band
with my voice just with the guitar and the voice
(57:00):
mm hmm you know
that's that's the goal
that's why I came today with this song yeah
you know I love
I have other song I mean there's
you know there's a whole
you know here's next
next season you know yeah
next season oh
I love it on season two
thank you yeah
I mean all of your stuff is there
you're obviously you know
what you're doing like I said before
(57:20):
just the teeny
tiny minor little details where it's like okay
what can we adjust to make it a
easier to sing right
a little bit more effortless
and B also still keep the character of it and uh
build the dynamics build the contrast
and have fun with it
while still making sense of the story of the song
(57:40):
cause at the end of the day
that's really important yeah
you know right
you don't wanna like pop it up so much
that you lose the gravity of what I'm saying exactly
exactly um
so yeah yeah
play around with those things
and again it's just well
now I'm gonna actually have to watch this episode
yeah yeah
watch back and do when am I supposed to practice again
(58:02):
but no it's
it's just basically
what I want you to think of is basically
you're just adding more tools to your tool belt sure
yeah and that's really it yeah
another another color to the crayon box yes
yeah I love it
do you have any questions about
the stuff that we talked about
not really I mean
I I felt like I actually understood it awesome
(58:23):
um you know
I think yeah
like 19 year old me coming into voice lessons
you know
I would have had no concept of where to even start yeah
it was to asking questions and yeah
what I was even you're gonna try to do
mm hmm um
you know now
you know 20 years later
I would come in with
(58:43):
I think a little bit more vision of what I'm
of course what I'm going to present to you yeah
um but yeah
this this really helped awesome
so I'm so glad to hear that yeah
thank you for for coming in and showing us
and giving us all a preview
we're the first ones to hear it pretty much yeah
just let me believe that
if that's not the case don't tell me like
(59:04):
just let me believe it
there's like three people who have heard this song
so your wife maybe one of them yeah
me No. 2 no
I'm just kidding but yeah
thank you so much for sharing
my dog your dog
there you go there you go
she was there when I wrote it
so you know
you know it's okay
it's okay I can be second in line to your dog
or third in line to your dog and your wife hahaha
but it's a beautiful song
(59:24):
can't wait to hear the whole thing um
I'll be sure to to link to your
your website as well yeah
I'm on check you know
pretty much all the socials that matter
yeah at Caleb Hawkins or uh
Caleb B Hawkins
Caleb B Hawkins
I had to put my middle initial in there
OK for some stupid reason
yeah so
cause Caleb Hawkins probably
cause I own my website but somebody had my yep exactly
(59:47):
so yeah
yeah yeah
he's a football player in Texas
ah
sports
haha whatever
very cool well
I'll link to all of that so we can
you know catch you release when it comes out
yeah I'm
I'm very excited I'm shooting for uh
July so OK perfect
so this will come out right around the same time then
(01:00:07):
so great alright
well that will work
yeah yes
maybe we can coordinate that
yeah maybe we can
yeah that'd be awesome
well so I had a couple of songs that I didn't make
a little EP I put out in 2,015 okay uh
so I kind of had like this
I was gonna make another EP
and I was gonna work with my friend
(01:00:28):
Ashley Peacock again yeah
I did the Wooden Wire album
um and I
at the time I lived in Florida and he lived in Michigan
okay so it was like
there's the logistics but then in 2,016
I moved up here um
a lot of different stuff just kind of coincided
different things happened
um
(01:00:49):
and finally in 2,019
we were gonna get together
and we're gonna record that fall
uh huh uh
but in April of 2,019 uh
he lost his
his battle with mental illness and he took his life
I mean realistically
it was two years before I felt like doing anything
and we had a pandemic yeah
we had all these different things happen
(01:01:10):
and I did not really feel right yeah
going into the studio and
and you know
working at the helm by myself
uh huh uh
you know I was so used to having him in the room yeah
working with me and you know
is that really what you want to say
hmm hmm
(01:01:31):
no yeah hahaha
you know like
now you really want to go home and rewrite the song
you know yeah yeah
um I had enough
songs written that I could easily just make an EP
but I really wanted to make an album I
I didn't want to make another EP
cause I mean realistically
when you sell those physical copies
like EP's were 5 bucks and albums were 10 bucks
and they cost the same amount to duplicate
(01:01:53):
so I wanted to have a full yeah
you know like a finished album
uh so in 2022
I kind of hit a stride as a writer again uh
and in about six weeks I wrote something like 25 songs
whoa it was just like getting up every morning
alright put the teapot on
(01:02:14):
brew my Earl Grey
sit down on the desk
you know it
do you read Austin Kleon's books
The Steal like an artist in that whole series
I'm a really bad reader um
no I don't
I'm sorry haha
well there's audio books too
and he's got a lot of other yeah
he's got other outlets but um
he has this whole thing about how
you gotta get in the chair
hmm uh huh
(01:02:35):
you know you wanna be a writer
you gotta get in the chair
you wanna be a painter get in the chair
it's different assume the position
you know you gotta get
you gotta get in that
and for this glorious six week span
I just I had this
this schedule that just was like okay
from 8:00am to noon
I have no interruptions I
(01:02:56):
and so I treated it as a job
yeah for six weeks straight
you know
it's just like being under contract as a freelancer
like okay
I have a job for six weeks
so six weeks is I get to write
yeah you know
and it was
it was me at the kitchen table with my little
writing stuff and I had a dog crawled up at my feet
it was winter time so it was great
yeah
(01:03:16):
out of that you know this song came out
you know really about half the record
hmm came out of that
wow so um yeah
when I say like it was a 10 year process
um you know
I would kind of go in the studio and stuff
just wouldn't feel right I just
I wasn't emotionally yeah
(01:03:37):
healed enough to even go in the studio and do that yeah
um
and then there's the RPM challenge that happens every
February okay
it's record production month
and it's like
thousands of people all across the world get together
and they log into this discord server
and they kind of like
build each other up and encourage each other yeah
(01:03:57):
and they make a record in 28
29 days on leap year wow
and so I I did one in 2009 um
and that was the last year I did it
just for whatever reason every year after that
like February was like the busiest month of my life
you know yeah
every year as if I could never see it coming
(01:04:18):
you know yeah
I'd sign up every year but I'd never do it yeah
and then um
this year I just said alright
I'm literally just gonna start saying no to people
as far as like
contract working things that I do
you know it's recording sessions
yeah there's three guys that I told
I wasn't gonna produce their record
cause I was gonna get mine done hmm
(01:04:39):
you know I'm gonna get mine done
I love your music
you guys know who you are
I can very much relate to that
but it was like all right
I gotta do this one for me yeah
and once I get my slate clean
then I can go work with you again
uh huh but I needed to get that out of the way yeah
um so I just kind of
hunkered down and didn't come out of my studio
(01:05:00):
you know and
um
really I
I think
I actually recorded the bulk of it in about eight days
okay and that wasn't even like
you know 8 hour days
that was just like yeah
going in when I um
that's fast but then it was
you know adding all the little textures and the new
yeah yeah
and all that yeah
so
but that's so awesome and then there was
(01:05:21):
you know the other month of second guessing myself
I suck don't listen to it too much
because then you start hearing things that
it's like this literally doesn't matter
like don't like what ah
I was just at a vocal production workshop with um
Simone Torres she's a vocal producer
and she said
80% done and released is better than 99% perfect
(01:05:44):
and not released
I think that I gained a lot of ground as a vocalist
when I because I mean
every independent artist we record ourselves
we have the the laptop and the audio interface
and we make our little records
and I used to just hate going through
and having to listen to my vocal take yeah
and it just like I wasn't at peace with it yeah
(01:06:07):
and um
finally I just
I stop taking my own vocals so personally and seriously
and just was like that's what I sing like
uh huh uh huh alright yeah
that's that's it
you know you can change your microphone
you can change the reverb
you can you know
you can do all those things
but that's what you sound like you
you need to be at peace with that
(01:06:28):
if you're not at peace
with the fact that you sound that way
we always start with that with our students
like when they enroll in voice lessons first
let's let's make sure that you like the way you sound
yeah and then we can focus on everything else
because as long as there's that mental block
it's gonna be impossible for you to actually get
what do you want that is a huge
(01:06:48):
huge thing I hear so many people
I hate my voice so they don't even sing at all
it's exactly well
you're not gonna get any better
cause you you
you just yeah
you clamped up you shut up and you said oh
I'm just I'm not musical yeah
yeah yeah
you know no
you're right come on
you know make
make peace with with the way your voice sounds
(01:07:09):
you know if I played you stuff from when I was
you know like 21
mmm hmm versus what I just sang now
I mean you wouldn't even think it was the same
yeah singer
it's totally different I
I don't sound like that mmm hmm
that vocalist at all I'm
you know but that's the beauty of the voice
it keeps evolving as you grow
you know well and
and this isn't this isn't NFL sports
(01:07:31):
no it's not like you turn 40 and you have to retire
or you're gonna get killed
yeah you know
I mean how many singers do we know of that sound like
better at 70 than they did when they were in their 20s
like like I
you know Johnny Cash
I get a lot of people compare me to Johnny Cash
when I'm singing in my lower register
(01:07:52):
I love Johnny Cash's you know
like folks in prison those
you know those 50 Sun records
I mean you can tell who it is
you know it's Johnny Cash
there's still that that essence of
of the man in black
but there's 50 years of life
yeah in there
and he sounds so much mature when he sings hurt
you know
(01:08:13):
it's not the same singer yeah
because it's not the same guy
oh yeah
you know and that's so beautiful about the voice
it is and it's a lifelong thing
you're gonna continue to get better and different
and explore and that's the beauty
that's the thing though
like
if you don't make peace with the way you sing already
you know or or at least sound
(01:08:34):
it's gonna be even harder to get good
well yeah
because on the mental tension
like the your whole judgment
I suck I can't sing in tune
if you keep telling yourself that you won't
that is exactly right so no singing is 90% mental
you're totally right but yeah
well hey
thank you so much for sharing anytime
(01:08:55):
anytime please come back and uh
um I'll again
I'll link to your music
so that everybody can check out your stuff
anything else and well
I tend to be a very obsessive person
I've been obsessed with music
since I was about 2 or 3 years old yeah
you know I'm a fifth generation musician
I am on the autism spectrum
(01:09:16):
if nobody could tell that's
that's fine
but I have a Monday newsletter that I send out okay
it's called Obsession News
uh huh
and it's really me just showing my geeky dorky side
I love it um
but I have a little like maybe 1
2 paragraphs it's just a life update
maybe an album update about how it's going
or where it's you know
where it's at um
(01:09:36):
but then I always share
like at least 5 things that I think are cool
there's usually like archival footage of
I don't know it might be Elefants
Gerald and Joe Pass okay
um you know
that was one week
I usually show some eye candy of a musical
instrument that I discovered
that I thought was really cool
really cool guitar um
(01:09:57):
or you know
just just a
a piece of musical equipment that I think is cool
cause every musician I know
you know they're always chasing the next guitar yeah
so I show that um
but it comes out roughly every Monday
okay
and it's called obsession news and people can sign up
I I promise perfect
at least 1 week a month it'll be interesting for you
okay hahaha
(01:10:18):
we'll link to that as well
so we can all geek out together yeah
there's I love it there's always something
I love it thank you so much for sharing
thanks for coming in and we'll catch you next time okay
alright yeah
I have to write another song
there you go perfect haha
thank you for tuning in everybody
and we'll see you in the next episode bye bye
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com