May 30, 2025 • 58 mins
Singing live can be brutal—especially when you’re not used to it or you took a break for a while. I worked with singer Cam - who’s an experienced performer, but took a long break from performing live - to help him build up his stamina again. We quickly realized that working on singing as effortlessly as possible and reducing tongue tension will be key to building up his stamina again. This episode is the coaching session we had together so that you can see what all goes into building stamina and reducing effort.
📍Mentioned Resource: Follow Cam here: https://www.instagram.com/cammeltonmusic/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
said the grass up there.
(00:02):
Great.
Turn the volume knob down on the top.
Not there.
Sand the grass out there.
What was that?
definitely felt less strain.
I'm definitely, like,
trying to keep the intensity up
And sometimes it's hard
on those higher notes, because it's
easy to get real, like thin or.
(00:23):
Okay, weak sounding. Okay.
Or maybe you feel like that was weak.
Yeah, maybe a little bit weaker.
Cool. I'ma challenge you on that. Okay.
Please do it. Yes.
That sounded plenty powerful to me.
Here's the thing.
When we sing higher,
your vocal folds stretch
longer than they have to,
because the length of the vocal folds
(00:43):
determines the pitch, right?
So they have to stretch longer,
you literally use the word thin, right?
It's like it's feels or sounds
thinner up there.
I'm like, yeah, that's because it is.
But we have to.
Otherwise it turns out they say the grass
and it's just yelling on pitch.
Yeah, yeah, right.
And that's not going to serve you at all.
(01:05):
That was plenty powerful
but in a controlled way.
Hey, VoxStar, and welcome to
From Singer To Artist.
I'm Lara
Chapman, award winning
singer and songwriter
turned viral vocal coach
and the host of this show.
(01:25):
At VoxTape Studios
we help singers from all over the world
level up their voices
by teaching them
the three fundamental skills
all singers need
technique, awareness and artistry.
Whether you're looking to go pro
or just develop your voice for fun.,
My team and I are here to help.
Check the link in the description
to book your first session, or grab
some of our other resources.
(01:45):
All righty. Are you ready?
Let's get started.
being here,
for sharing your beautiful song
and your voice and your playing with us.
I already got a little sneak peek,
and it was like, oh, I'm so excited.
Usually people bring guitars or nothing.
(02:06):
Nobody's brought a piano or like,
used my piano, to accompany themselves.
So I'm really excited to
hear you and see you play
and sing at the same time.
We're going to be working on
an original song of yours today, right?
Yes. Nirvana. Pie.
Okay. What a cool title.
Nirvana pie.
Never heard that anywhere else.
How did that come to be?
(02:29):
It came at the end of an old
relationship of mine.
An ex-girlfriend of mine
had gotten her dream job in California.
I was here in Indiana,
going to grad school and,
you know, just logistically,
that was just going to be the end of us.
And, yeah, you know, I was devastated.
But I also wanted
to be really happy for her
(02:49):
because I knew it was
super important for her.
And, you know,
the song came out of that,
the concept of
going and going out and
finding your dreams
and trying to find
your own slice of nirvana.
So. Nirvana pie. Wow.
So it's kind of like from
you trying to put yourself
into her shoes,
(03:10):
like going after her dream job and.
Absolutely. Wow. Yeah. Wow.
Well, I'm really excited to hear it.
I mean, I already kind of heard it.
Like, I listened to it before you came,
but I'm.
I'm very excited
for you to share it with everybody.
And, but before we dig into your song,
you've done a lot.
You have a lot of experience in music.
(03:30):
You've played shows before.
You've, you have a recording studio
where you're an engineer
to helping other people
record their projects.
Can you tell us a little bit more
about how you got started in music
and all the things that you're doing?
Absolutely.
I grew up singing all the time.
From the time I could talk,
I was singing, and,
(03:51):
I did choir through high school.
In college,
I went
to college for
biomedical engineering, so.
Okay. Nothing music related. Yeah.
But I had some friends in college
that were,
playing in bands
and writing original music,
and it was really my first exposure
to people my age
playing music that I really liked.
(04:13):
And I met high school friends
that had done that,
but they kind of didn't play music
I actually liked.
And so I didn't
really have any concept of
real people that I knew
that were playing cool music.
And it sort of inspired me to pick up
piano first
and then guitar
pretty shortly after that.
And they were nice enough
(04:34):
to let me sit in.
And, as I was learning and growing
as a musician and,
most of my experience with
music for the first decade
or so was really
pretty solitary, me sitting at home
with, my keyboard or,
a guitar and took a while before
I could play an instrument
(04:54):
and sing at the same time.
Yeah. That's tricky.
It is.
And,
I think the first time
I performed
my own music in public was 2018.
Really? That recently?
Yeah. Not that long ago.
Okay.
I mean, I had kept it as kind of,
sort of as
a secret that,
you know, I, I did it at home.
(05:15):
But I hadn't worked up the nerve to do it
in front of people.
the first time I ever played,
I think it was actually Nirvana.
Pie was the first song
that I performed in public at, Chris
Wolf had a, original
singer songwriter showcase.
Like a, an open mic
where each got to sing one original song
at square Cat. Vinyl. Yeah.
(05:37):
Square cat.
And, I remember going out there and
my knees shaking and just terrified.
I'm sure I had a whole lot
extra vibrato that day
just from the nerves.
behind the scenes,
I had bought a little interface
and started,
writing songs at home and mixing them.
Kind of amateur at first.
(05:58):
But you know,
you do anything for a while
and you start to get a lot better at it.
Yeah.
2019 I opened a recording studio
with my partner, Rob glass.
He's a fantastic audio engineer.
And,
you know,
at that point,
I had toured around a bit
playing my own music
and, toured the Midwest, and
(06:18):
Rob was my favorite engineer
that I'd worked with.
So, yeah,
I was really stoked
to, open a studio with him.
Well, hold
on, I need to get this timeline right.
You didn't start performing until 2018,
and you were on tour in 2019 already?
I was, yeah. Whoa.
I mean, I did a whole lot of practice
before I even stepped on a stage,
but that's amazing.
(06:39):
That's fast.
I was just kind of terrified
to ever make that first step.
And then once I made
that first step was like,
okay, it's not that bad.
I can do this. Yeah.
It's usually it works.
Yeah.
You build it up in your head and like,
oh my God, this is going to be so scary.
And then you do it
and like that's actually kind of fun.
It's exhilarating. Yeah. Yes.
(06:59):
Once once you get out there
and you see the response you get and,
it's just, it's a ton of fun.
I mean, it still can be terrifying
depending on the circumstances
or doing new things.
It's always scary, but
understanding that, you know,
I can survive it, whatever happens.
Yeah.
You know,
even if the wheels completely
(07:20):
fall off, I'm probably not going to die.
Yes, most likely not.
And just,
finding ways to cope with that anxiety
And then from there,
branched out into live engineering.
So now I do a lot of live mixing.
Live engineering,
turntable and broad ripple,
part of the
45 family with the Vogue
(07:40):
and Rock, the ruins and all that.
playing live?
You don't do much these days
anymore, right?
it's been slow the last few months, but,
I had been playing with, a few groups,
I've done some solo shows
I've done and,
and I've been doing
some songwriter circles. Cool.
I love that style of show
where you get to hear
(08:01):
some of the story behind the songs. Yeah.
I'm not always the best at,
like, promoting myself.
I feel like as a musician,
you have to wear so many different hats.
Yes.
And you have to be a marketer
and, graphic designer and promoter and,
sending out emails all the time, and.
Yeah,
I'm just don't have that, like,
(08:22):
look at me, Gene.
Yeah, I get it.
And, and that's one thing
I've liked about engineering
is that I can just kind of show up and do
my job.
And, yeah,
I don't have to do promote anything.
I don't have to do any of that.
And, let's do Nirvana pie.
Let's work on that. For today.
Is there anything in particular
that you would like me
(08:43):
to pay attention to, or just in general,
I think one thing
that I've been struggling with lately
is, well, one,
I don't have the vocal endurance
since I've been doing
so much engineering.
Yeah, I haven't been singing as much.
I haven't been doing the
the three hour cover gigs
like I used to be doing.
And I think that kind of manifests
in, some straining at
(09:05):
the higher registers.
think another thing that I've run into
is that
my favorite song
that people's favorite
songs of mine tend to be ones
that are up at the highest part
of my register,
and that I'm singing, with a full voice.
And, you know,
I think that's
because it brings a lot of energy.
Yeah, energy to the performance.
But it's definitely
(09:26):
they're often the hardest ones
for me to sing. Yeah.
Or at least the hardest to sing for
a whole show is worth of song.
Yes, of course, of course.
Okay. And Nirvana pie.
Where does that sit in your voice?
Well, I've kind of rearranged it,
to have kind of more of a,
let's say lounge lounge vibe to it.
Cool.
So it's a little bit
(09:48):
more laid back,
and I dropped it down, a fourth.
Whoa. Okay. That's a lot.
It is a lot.
Okay.
part of that is, is
is in in recognition
of where my voice is right now
and, and with everything
I'm going through,
I haven't been doing
a whole lot of singing.
Yeah, with my face, but, Yeah.
So I'm still just kind of trying
to figure out how to make do
(10:09):
with where I'm at right now.
Yes.
And not strain my voice, not cause
any damage to my voice.
Yeah.
You mentioned
they removed a little bit
of your muscle, right?
They did.
So it's going to be it's
more difficult for you to
to move that side of your of your mouth.
So that is definitely something
we do want to keep in mind
when you're, when you're singing.
we want to
make sure that
(10:29):
your vocal folds are doing the job
so that we don't have to do as much
when it comes
to, like,
shaping the sound of it
in your vocal like tract.
A lot of times, singers focus only on,
like, the shaping of the sound
that they're making by like,
you know, really adjusting
their mouth shape
or really opening the mouth or whatever.
(10:49):
And I'm like,
okay, that's all important stuff.
But also we need to make sure
that the source
where the sound is coming from,
that that's efficient already down there.
So, you know, we can see depending on
what I'm hearing, you know, do
we need to adjust anything down here
or is it more the shaping of the sound
that we need to focus on?
(11:10):
But I love that
you're making your life easier by,
you know, dropping the song a fourth
and you know you're not.
Is it four half steps or a fourth?
A fourth, yeah.
Okay, so that's even more okay.
Yes.
So, you know,
sometimes we need to just honor ourselves
and our bodies and our voice
where we're at
and work
with what we've got in that moment.
(11:32):
Right. For you.
You haven't been performing as much.
Then you also had your surgery.
That doesn't help either.
So, you know, drop it down to fourth
and make that work.
As long as we can make it work somehow.
Right?
Because sometimes if we drop it a fourth
and it gets too low in the lower parts.
So, you know,
we have to
kind of like play around with it
a little bit.
But yeah, honor,
(11:52):
honor your voice
where it's at in the moment.
Yeah.
Let me know how it works
okay I will
you've heard what you'll hear
at both versions okay.
Yes, yes, I love it.
Well, do we want to start?
Maybe with, like,
the first verse
and the chorus before we
look at the entire thing.
Is that okay with you?
Yeah, that would be. Yeah.
All right, let's do it.
(12:16):
Well, it
seems to me that the place to be
is right.
Is where you can see the life, the
you have always wanted to lead.
The sometimes we, including me,
just need to be where we feel free.
So honey, please don't stand in my way.
(12:43):
Because I am leaving me all the more.
Me in.
And I ain't looking back.
No I'm not off
to find me a slice of that sweet.
(13:03):
Then found a path, yes.
Cause everywhere I've looked it
seem to be,
Nice.
Bring the javelinas.
Yes. Okay. How did it feel?
I felt pretty good.
Yeah, that was pretty darn good.
That was pretty.
How do you feel the a little allowed?
(13:24):
You feeling okay with it?
It's just fine I loved it.
You have.
And I heard this
on the recording as well.
You have a crazy vibrato in the bass
like crazy in a positive way.
Does like, vibrato is something
you quickly mentioned earlier.
Is that something that
people usually mention
about your singing?
Yeah, it's
one of the first things they mentioned.
(13:45):
Everything.
Yeah, yeah.
And I feel like as I've kind of matured
as a singer, I've, I've,
I've put a lot of active work
into like controlling it. Okay.
It was just something
that I kind of did naturally.
Okay. At first.
It was definitely not something
I ever really thought about
until I was trying
to actually tone it back
or be able to really like I'm on a pure
(14:06):
A note, as opposed to
always relying on vibrato.
Yeah, yeah,
Well, your vibrato is super fast.
Yeah, super. Do you know Post Malone?
I do know Post Malone.
Yeah.
Post Malone
also has a very distinct vibrato.
Right.
So you two are obviously
very different kinds of singers.
(14:27):
But for both of you,
the vibrato is the thing
that sticks out to me
as like
the main thing where I'm like, oh, wow,
there's not something
you usually hear, right?
So I love it.
I think it's it's really cool.
It's super fast,
super, super, super fast.
With vibrato
depending on the style
that we're singing,
like you said, you know,
we kind of have to find that balance of
(14:47):
how much of it are we using?
Because if there is a lot of a barato
happening everywhere
all the time,
it's like, oh, it gets a lot.
I thought you found a beautiful,
beautiful balance.
You know, it was there
where it's like, oh, that's kind of cool.
But it wasn't like so much of it
that I'm like, okay,
I kind of heard it like,
can you give me some straight tone
now, please?
(15:08):
Not at all.
I thought you found
a really great balance.
Yeah.
I think you lose
some of the impact of the vibrato
if it's always there.
Exactly.
Same thing
with literally anything that you do,
like when you're riffing.
For example,
if you're riffing all the time,
all over the place,
each riff
that you're doing loses that impact
because there's so much happening,
or saying with vocal flips or whatever
(15:30):
it is that you're doing,
the more of the same thing
you're doing in one song,
the less impact it has usually.
But anyways,
I'm glad we're on the same page
about that.
Physically, how does it feel?
Do you feel any tightness
or does it feel pretty easy?
I did feel a little bit of tightness.
(15:51):
Yeah, mostly in the chorus
or throughout the whole thing.
mostly in the choruses
when I,
when I kind of lifted a little bit.
And to, both in volume and.
Yeah, in, in the notes.
Yeah.
I think just working on
figuring out how to relax a bit
would probably be useful for me. Yeah.
I asked you earlier,
(16:12):
do you think the piano is a little loud?
Because I heard you
when you started
playing more in the chorus, right.
There's more happening. Playing wise.
The piano got louder
and you matched that with your vocals.
Sure.
When we're singing in the chorus,
usually we do give a little bit more.
But I wanted to make sure
that you're not overcompensating.
(16:33):
Basically, like,
vocally, you're trying to match the piano
because the piano is getting really loud.
Yeah.
So if you don't mind trying this,
I'd love to turn the volume
knob down on the piano a little bit
and see if your singing changes at all.
Yeah or not,
because you're mixing engineer,
you know how important the mix is
in somebody's ear.
(16:53):
Like what they can hear.
For me personally,
when I can't hear myself, well,
I start pushing and forcing and straining
so that I can hear myself.
Right.
I'm trying to get louder,
and that comes with a lot of strain.
So I just want to make sure
that that's not the case.
Yeah, I totally makes sense. Yeah.
And I think that it's funny
you mention that
because I have
a very old upright piano at my house
(17:15):
and the hammers,
like all the
felts on the, on
the hammers
are very hardened and worn and old, so
it doesn't have a whole lot of volume
control with, with with my hands.
Yeah.
We're, a a well-oiled piano.
Yes.
And so, I think I feel it
because it's louder
than I would necessarily
(17:36):
like to be playing.
I find myself singing louder.
And I think that that has led to me
singing with more
strain than I would
if I had a more well equipped piano.
Yes.
So this,
this may be very insightful
about you, what you pointed out.
It might make a difference.
Let's try it again.
Let's see what happens.
Well, it
(17:56):
seems to me that the place to be
is right.
Is where you can see
the life that you for these
want to do lead.
Well, sometimes we,
including me, just need to be.
When we feel free.
So honey, please don't stand in my way.
(18:23):
Because I am refitting
in the moment of opening
and dying again.
Brave and no.
And,
But off to find me
a slice of that sweet.
(18:44):
And found five yes girls everywhere
I've looked has seemed to be, okay.
How did that feel?
I think you're right.
It did feel a little bit better,
a little better.
Did you feel at all
like you were less in competition
(19:04):
with the piano,
or did that not really cross your mind?
I didn't have to fight it as much.
I didn't find it as much.
Okay. Okay. Yeah.
How you hear yourself is so important.
And these mics here right
now, we're not amplifying our own voice.
The only thing that's being played
is the piano, the microphones.
We just have to record.
So, you know, usually
when you're performing live,
(19:24):
you have some sort of monitor,
like where you amplify
your voice as well.
So it's a little bit easier
to get the levels right there.
Right.
Here in this little home studio,
we don't have that. I'm sorry,
but, that I
thought that was really great.
And I definitely don't think
you have to work
any more or be any louder in that chorus.
(19:44):
There's no need for it.
know as singers, it's sometimes like.
But I can.
So I want to and I'm like, I hear you,
but you don't have to.
So save yourself.
Because all, all that's happening
when you're, when you're louder
is you're not technically,
actually much louder.
The only thing that changes is
how much effort
(20:04):
it takes to make that sound. Yeah.
So you're really just working harder
to be maybe 2% louder.
I feel like some of it is like
I feel like I have more control.
Yes. When I put more into it.
So here's the thing.
When you're belting
and when you're loud, it's
much easier to sing that way
than when you're singing
in a soft, breathy voice.
For example, like Billie Eilish, right?
(20:27):
Very soft, breathy kind of singer.
That woman
has insane control over her instrument.
It's much harder to sing that way
than a big belting kind of thing,
because you don't have
all the force behind it, right?
So you really need to make sure that
whatever it is
you're doing at a vocal fold
level is solid,
so you're not relying
on all that air pressure
(20:48):
and that force to get the notes out.
Right.
So this is actually going to be great
for you to practice
how to get that
same kind of sound
without the force behind it
and still feel like you're in
control now. Okay, okay.
Question for you,
because of your surgery
opening your mouth,
how far does it still feel?
Okay. Like dropping your jaw.
(21:08):
I could probably drop it more than I am.
Okay. Yeah.
There's there's some limitation there.
Yeah.
And it still feels kind of unnatural.
Like, it's, like stretching a lot. Yeah.
I could probably open more.
Okay.
I feel like that would be useful, so.
Oh, when it comes to dropping your jaw,
like, it's.
It's not always the solution. Okay.
(21:29):
And this is very much.
And the sound has already been produced
posts, sounds production
essentially is is
what we're doing here
is when we're adjusting
how much we're opening the mouth.
So, this is again
just shaping the sound
that your vocal folds have created.
With you,
I don't necessarily
think you need to open a ton
(21:50):
more because on those bigger notes
that you're
sustaining a little bit longer,
you're opening nicely.
I just want to make sure that you're
also feeling
that openness
in the back of your mouth, too,
not just in the front,
so that you have this feeling of space
and more resonance, essentially.
Sure. Right.
So can we try the chorus only,
(22:12):
on la la la.
And when you're doing la la la la la la,
try to keep your jaw still
and only move the tongue.
La la la la la. Can you just try that.
La la la la la.
Okay, great.
Yeah.
La la la la la la la la la la la
la la la la la la la la la.
(22:34):
That was a beautiful skill.
Yes, I love it.
Can you open a little bit more?
Does that feel okay?
La la la la la la la la la.
All righty.
So here this is.
Your tongue is working
really hard to make that happen.
Yeah.
Your tongue
and your jaw are best buddies.
And they want to do everything together.
And moving them individually,
like, separately from each other
(22:55):
is really, really, really hard.
I was surprised by how hard that was.
Yeah, yeah.
Let's try try one more time.
Maybe, like halfway open.
This time with your jaw.
La la la la la la la la la la.
Okay. Is that feeling okay?
Yeah. Okay.
Slightly more open.
La la la la la
(23:16):
la la la
la la la la la la la la la la la.
So a you're kind of it.
This is so interesting.
Can you try nanana.
No no no no no no no no no.
Okay.
So your tongue is doing the same thing.
That is so interesting.
Can you just sustain.
Okay.
Now do you feel a difference
(23:40):
in your tongue position
when you're doing that. Oh yeah. Okay.
When you were just doing it.
La la la la la and nana nana na you you,
you did the same thing for your tongue.
It was really
kind of create it
like a ditch in your tongue.
And the tip went all the way up.
La la la la la la la la la.
Kind of like that.
La la la and non non na.
(24:01):
Technically it's further back.
It's not the tip of your tongue
like is the tip of your tongue
going up to the roof of your mouth.
Is not the tip of your tongue.
It's a little further back.
It's not all the way back like.
Will be all the way back.
But
and then then then, then
the next is somewhere
towards the front of the tongue
but not the tip of the tongue.
(24:23):
Okay.
So try that one more time
and see if you can get
not the tip of your tongue
but the front
third maybe of the tongue up on non non
non non. Great.
Now keeping the doctor and nana nana nana
na na na na na.
Can you open a little bit more.
(24:43):
No no no no no.
Yeah yeah yeah.
This is so fun. Okay.
Your tongue is like what is happening.
It really is. Yeah.
So you know some people have more tension
in the neck, others more in the jaw
and some more in the tongue.
For you,
just seeing this,
like how your tongue is trying to fight
you a little bit
on that lalala or nanana.
(25:05):
My guess is
the tongue
is probably the thing that's
holding the most tension in your singing.
Okay, so
before we actually do the lalala
on the melody, let's do it.
With a gentle tongue bite.
(25:26):
Great.
Can you try the whole course that way
and focus on keeping the tongue still?
Hee hee hee
hee hee hee hee!
(25:48):
Hee hee
hee hee
hee hee
hee!
You okay?
Talk to me about that experience
felt weird.
Yeah,
I feel like I'm more up into my, like,
(26:11):
sinuses in the way that I. Yes.
Yeah, because all your sound
is coming out of your nose now.
Yeah, right.
Because your mouth is close.
And then if you close your nose,
there's no sound
coming out anymore, right?
So make sense that you're feeling
the sound more up here in your sinuses,
because that's literally
where it's coming out.
Yeah.
Did you feel
anything in your tongue at all?
I feel like a one.
(26:32):
And having it locked
in, I felt that felt like there
was, like,
more space back in the back
because it's, like,
very forward in my mouth. Yes.
it felt like there's, like,
a different type of, back pressure and.
Yeah.
And how I'm singing. Yeah. Like that.
Did you feel it
twitch at all
or wanting to kind of like
pull back into your mouth in any parts?
(26:52):
Oh, definitely it did. Yeah. Yeah.
And trying to like, be conscious
and hold it there while I'm playing,
like, oh, how do I play this again?
What's the melody again?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's it's a lot to focus on
and all at the same time,
especially when you're also playing.
Right.
But okay,
so if your tongue is trying
to kind of like, move
back into your mouth, it's
(27:13):
what we call a tongue retraction. Right?
And that's
just a form of, of tongue tension.
And it makes sense
that you feel like
there's more space back here
in the back of your mouth now,
because your tongue is not trying to
curl up back there.
Yeah, right.
So that's kind of
what I was talking about
before with creating space.
Initially I thought
(27:34):
maybe it was your jaw,
but that was just my guess
because of your surgery, right.
But it seems like
it's actually more your tongue
than your jaw.
Okay, so can we try that one more time?
If you want, you can do it acapella
so you don't have to play
at the same time, too.
If you feel comfortable enough.
Like with the melody.
Yeah. Without playing.
Okay, let's try that.
(27:54):
Hold on.
That's a different key.
Give yourself the first.
Nope.
(28:26):
Okay.
It feels weird
that I liken it
to, changing a golf swing.
Or every time you make a swing change,
it feels so awkward.
It's.
Yes,
and I'm sure it's the same sort of thing.
Like,
I just got all of these
years of muscle memory.
Yes, 100%.
(28:46):
How I produce
all the sounds that I'm making.
And so
changing the, the architecture
and the structure
of how everything is in there.
Definitely feels weird.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Talk to me about effort levels.
Do you feel like it takes more effort
to sing this way? Less effort?
About the same?
I feel like I feel less strain here.
(29:08):
But it's harder to,
to push out to the.
There's so much more pressure.
Yeah.
Going through my nose. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
As opposed to coming out my mouth. Yeah.
I'm feeling that.
Okay, so let's make a modification
so that we don't have the sound
coming out of our nose,
but rather out of the mouth.
(29:29):
So that way we can
hopefully still feel less strain.
Because we're
still sticking the tongue out,
but the sound is not
coming out of your nose. Sure.
So all you got to do is just
open.
Now you're not biting
on your tongue anymore,
so it's going to be much harder
to keep the tongue still this way.
(29:51):
Obviously, it doesn't sound pretty.
Her hair doesn't sound pretty.
Right?
But,
we just want to focus on
relaxing the tongue as much as possible.
Keep it nice and rounded, Not pointy.
That's a pointy tongue.
Pointy tongue?
It's not a relaxed tongue.
Around tongue.
Around flat tongue is a relaxed tongue.
And so forth.
(30:15):
Okay. Yeah, let's try that.
Ahead.
(30:47):
Okay.
Okay. How is that, easier. Yeah. Easier.
Okay. Oh, yeah.
How is that last note? That very last.
No. Her.
Yeah,
it was definitely feeling
a little strained on that one. Yep.
I could literally see it in your tongue.
Yeah, right.
Your tongue was, like, pushing down.
And then when you release, it was like,
it came back out, right?
(31:07):
And it relaxed again.
So this is all about awareness building.
Yeah. Right.
Like when we want to make
some sort of change to our singing,
we first have to figure out,
well, what is holding us back right.
And now I truly believe
that your tongue is is,
is a big factor in your singing.
So like, for your effort level, right?
(31:27):
Like,
if we can relax the tongue
just a little bit more,
release it a little bit more,
have it chill out.
Your effort levels
are going to drop, right?
So every time you feel like
you're working a little bit harder,
I can literally see it in your tongue.
Yeah, yeah.
So different ways to practice this.
let me know if we can do this,
because of your surgery, but.
(31:51):
Just holding your
tongue and,
and just kind of like
pulling it out of your mouth. Yeah.
Do you want to try it,
or do you think it's going
to put too much strain on your scar?
Now, let's do it. Let's do it. Yep.
So you're just going to grab your tongue
and then same thing.
(32:20):
Haha.
Okay.
Great.
I'm going to pause you right there.
Let's try that one more time.
Take both of your hands
and add a wiggle to it.
(33:05):
Okay.
Relax. How was that?
That feels more relaxed.
Cool care.
Cool. Yeah, absolutely.
Did you feel a difference
between no wiggle and wiggle,
or was it about the same?
Would be tough for me
to determine the difference
between
practicing now three times with my tongue
out, so. Yeah, yeah, I don't.
Sorry. Okay.
It's starting to feel a bit more natural
(33:26):
the third time I'm doing it. Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, it did,
it did feel a little bit easier.
Okay. Yeah.
With the wiggle too.
It's coming out of your wrist. Right. And
it gets easier to
actually add the wiggle as you,
you know, do it more and more and more.
Just make sure you keep your head
still, like,
you're going to get very disoriented
(33:47):
if you do that.
So try and keep the wiggle in your
in your wrist. Okay.
The wiggle is just to add movement.
When we add movement,
your muscle can't tense up for sure.
So that's why
I like to add movement
when we when we try and release
tension okay.
And this is kind of the best way
to do it.
With, with your tongue,
just adding a little bit of a wiggle
(34:08):
with a paper towel,
make sure you don't use tissues
or toilet paper
that will dissolve on your tongue,
and it'll be a big mess.
Okay?
Tissues or some sort of cloth
will work as well. Okay.
But yeah, that was that was awesome.
It again is just getting that tongue
out of the way.
And this way
we can do it with an open mouth
(34:28):
compared to the tongue bite.
Where all the sound
is going to come out of your nose.
Yeah, but you do need your hands
this way. Yeah, right.
That last note was a lot more free
this time around than the previous time.
Did you feel a difference?
I totally felt it. Yeah.
Yeah. This is fascinating to me.
I love it, I love it.
(34:48):
Let's try it with a wiggle one more time
just so we can get used to this feeling.
Okay. Do you want a new piece?
Are you feeling good?
I'm fine. You're good. Okay.
And then we'll do it with the lyrics.
Haha haha.
(35:27):
I mean that last note, man.
Whew. How was it?
It was good.
Yeah, I will definitely be doing this.
I like this a lot for you.
Okay, I really do.
This is going to be great.
And let's try with the lyrics.
Let's just see what happens.
So you can put the papers on wherever.
And, and then.
Yeah, let's try with the lyrics, see
what happens,
focus on pushing your tongue
(35:49):
forward as you're singing.
Yeah. Okay, okay.
It's going to feel a little weird,
but we again
just want to fight that tongue retraction
by doing reverse tongue
tension, pushing the tongue forward
rather than back. Right.
Okay.
Let's try because I am leaving in
the morning
(36:10):
and I ain't looking back.
No I'm not,
have to find me a slice of.
That's sweet. Never.
Because everywhere I've looked
has seemed to be,
Okay.
(36:30):
How is that?
That feels a lot less tense.
Nice. Yeah.
Very cool, very cool.
I was intently staring at your tongue
the entire time.
I'm sorry if that feels awkward.
No. You're good.
Just trying to see
what your tongue is doing.
Yeah, that was pretty darn good.
Can you try one more time?
Before you do on a level,
on a scale of 1 to 10. How loud was that?
(36:51):
Probably is 7 or 8? 7 or 8.
Can you give me, like, a five?
Yeah. Okay.
As I am leaving
in the morning,
and I ain't looking back.
No, I'm not, to find me
(37:14):
slice of that sweet nerve on a pie
because everywhere I've looked
has seemed to be, Okay.
How was that?
Good.
Yeah,
I can definitely feel way less tension.
Cool.
I don't think you need to be
any louder than that.
Okay, again,
(37:35):
more volume just requires more effort.
Yeah, and there's really no no need to.
As long as we're still getting the tone
that we're looking for. Right?
Like I make a difference
between tone and intensity.
Sorry.
Wrong tone
and intensity is the same thing. Volume.
So intensity and volume
or tone and volume,
(37:55):
those are the things
that I'm differentiating.
And just more volume
is not going to get you anywhere. Right.
Because we have microphones
almost always. Right.
And so I'd rather focus on the tone
and then only use as much effort
as I need to get the tone
the way I want it to,
no matter what the volume is on it.
Right.
And that was still more powerful
(38:16):
and louder than the verse.
Yeah, right.
So you still have the contrast
because I don't want
to remove the contrast.
Right, right.
That's really, really, really good.
Awesome.
Can we do first verse and chorus together
to just kind of like
see how it evolves into the chorus?
Yeah. Do you want to play while you sure.
Yeah. Let's try.
(38:38):
Well, it seems to me that the
place to be is right is where you can see
the light that you end up always
wanting to lead with.
Sometimes we,
including me,
just need to be where we feel free.
(38:58):
So honey, please don't stand in my way.
Because I am free.
Letting in the moaning and dying.
Looking back, no, I'm, Love to find me
(39:22):
a slice of that sweet nirvana.
Five.
Because everywhere I've looked
and seem to be, cool.
How is that good? Yeah.
Real good.
Yeah, I like it a lot.
(39:44):
I like it a lot.
That was really nice.
No notes. One note.
Look in the chorus, the word look
kind of modify.
You're kind of modifying that vowel
there to, like, a Luke. Luke.
I think some of that is me
trying to focus intently
on my tongue positioning, okay.
As opposed to like, my diction fair and
(40:08):
so it'd probably be something
I would tweak after
I kind of got used to.
Fair, totally fair.
Look, compared to Luke
is going to be a lot easier
to sing, though, okay?
Because it's more open.
Yeah. Yeah. Look, look.
Okay, look,
what's that phrase?
everywhere I've looked
has seemed to be out.
Yeah.
Can you try that phrase one more time?
(40:29):
Because everywhere I've looked.
Yeah, this seemed the, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay. How was that?
I like that, yeah,
that definitely is an easier
syllable or vowel sound.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Very cool. Yeah. Keep that. That's good.
It makes it easier to understand
what you're singing too, right?
(40:51):
He's like Luke, I'm like,
what is that
look, because that's how we
we speak it too, right?
Look, we don't say, Luke.
We say, I am your father.
Yeah.
There you go. Perfect.
Very nice questions about first verse.
Chorus. Are we feeling good there?
I'm feeling pretty good.
Yeah. I like this.
I think this will definitely
(41:12):
be something
I'm incorporating
into my practice regime, I love it.
Do we want to keep going
with the rest of the song?
Sure. Into the second verse.
Yeah. See what we got?
Falcon Pass and missed with those weird
jaws of truth and battle scars.
Kevin, with a heavy load.
(41:34):
Nice.
But I don't know if
this is
a right, but I just can't keep losing.
Said, the things in life.
I know what that I need.
So I every faith in the.
Oh me and
(41:58):
and I ain't looking back.
No, I'm not
lost to find me a slice
of that sweet beef on a farm.
Because everywhere I've looked
and seem to be,
(42:20):
cool.
I'm happy.
How are you feeling about it?
I feel good, cool, cool.
Very nice.
You had some beautiful riffs
in that second verse too.
Yeah, and you nailed them.
Thank you.
No notes.
Moving on to the bridge.
Do you have a bridge?
I do have a bridge to the bridge.
Out with trees.
(42:43):
Ain't just a whisper
you can't talk about.
With no one else there for the best.
And there ain't no is greener.
But I tell em all about it.
(43:03):
Once I find out for myself.
Because I am leaving him.
Do you mind if we go outside there? Cool.
How did that, bridge feel?
Pretty good.
I mean, there's that, like,
high note
that I hit
that is like
the probably the highest in the song.
If I up until this point, it is.
(43:24):
Yeah.
If it doesn't go higher at the end,
then yes. Yeah, yeah.
How on earth did you ever do this
a fourth higher.
Oh, the melodies changed. That's it.
Okay, okay. It's a very different song.
Okay.
I'm like, I'm sorry.
What?
Okay, okay.
Fair enough. Yeah, yeah.
(43:44):
Okay. Two.
That makes me feel better about myself.
Okay.
Can we try that high part?
One more time?
Can you do it
so I can hear the melody one more time?
You can do the whole
bridge if it's easier.
I quit drinking.
Just whisper.
You can't talk about
(44:06):
with no one else.
They said the present day all right.
Da da da da da da.
What's the lyrics on that?
They say the grass out there
ain't always greener.
They say the grass.
You're saying you're singing grace
grass out there.
And I'm like, what's grass? Grass?
(44:28):
They say the grass, grass.
They say the grass out there.
Yeah.
So you're, you're
singing it more internally.
That gives you
that discretion compared to grass.
It's the grass is going to have a lot of
like force behind it
if we're really opening it up.
Yeah. Yeah.
Who like.
(44:48):
Well let's just let's just try it.
Let's see what happens.
They say the grass just said the grass
up there. Great.
Turn the volume knob down on the top.
Not there.
Sand the grass out there.
What was that?
definitely felt less strain.
I'm definitely, like,
trying to keep the intensity up
(45:10):
And sometimes it's hard
on those higher notes, because it's
easy to get real, like thin or.
Okay, weak sounding. Okay.
Or maybe you feel like that was weak.
Yeah, maybe a little bit weaker.
Cool. I'ma challenge you on that. Okay.
Please do it. Yes.
That sounded plenty powerful to me.
(45:31):
Here's the thing.
When we sing higher,
your vocal folds stretch
longer than they have to,
because the length of the vocal folds
determines the pitch, right?
So they have to stretch longer,
and it's just like a rubber band.
When we stretch out a rubber band,
it gets thinner.
Yeah, yeah.
It's the same thing for your vocal folds.
So when you're,
you literally use the word thin, right?
(45:52):
It's like it's feels or sounds
thinner up there.
I'm like, yeah, that's because it is.
But we have to.
Otherwise it turns out they say the grass
and it's just yelling on pitch.
Yeah, yeah, right.
And that's not going to serve you at all.
That was plenty powerful
but in a controlled way.
Not I really kind of way.
(46:14):
Right.
And it's hard
like when we're used to singing
something a certain way.
It's very much
like, oh,
this is less than what I was doing.
So it's not powerful enough.
And I'm like, no, actually,
that was that was plenty powerful.
Like the tone was spot on on that. Okay.
I don't think you have to do more.
Okay.
Yeah,
(46:35):
yeah,
I am giving you permission to do less.
Thank you.
No, really?
Because that sounded amazing to me.
That sounded way more controlled,
way more sustainable.
Yet still plenty powerful.
Okay, I'm not missing any sort of power.
And by the way,
when I'm telling you this,
I'm also equally
as much telling this to myself
because I struggle from the same thing.
(46:55):
I'm just always too much,
too much, too much.
You don't need to work harder than that.
That was amazing.
I loved that, one thing I did hear
was they say the grass sounded
like a
release of breath at the very end.
I love that as a stylistic tool.
I just want to make sure
(47:16):
that you're not doing that
because you're
not really
using your breath in the phrase,
you know, like
sometimes
when you get to these higher notes,
we like
nether,
and then we kind of hold everything back
because we kind of get afraid. Yeah.
Make sure that you're still keeping
that flow of air.
That's going to be
the support for the top,
not the air, the airflow.
(47:38):
Yeah. Okay.
Can you just give me a sigh
like a, great.
Can you make that breath of air?
That was quieter.
Not necessarily breath of air more.
There you go.
That's breath of air.
And I'll give me a little bit more volume
on that while
maintaining the breathiness.
(47:59):
Great.
Okay. How does that feel?
I definitely don't
do a lot of breathiness.
And I,
I've actually wanted
to incorporate more of that
into my singing. Okay.
And one thing
I really wanted to like
the tone back then like just,
all the time. Yeah.
And be able
to do really intimate things
real up on the, on the minor.
(48:19):
Yeah.
Real hot and hear
that like breathiness and.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well it's going to be great
as a stylistic tool
if you want to use it,
but it's also going to be great
for your overall vocal technique. Yeah.
Because when we're practicing
breathy and, you know,
some people out there say like breathy
singing is going to hurt your voice.
And I'm like, no, it's not.
(48:39):
Excuse me? It's not.
It's actually for a certain
kind of singer can be very helpful.
I personally am a very prissy kind
of singer. Too much compression.
So practicing breathy singing helps
open up my vocal folds a little bit more.
So they're not squeezing together
so tightly so I can get more flow.
More breath flow. Okay.
(49:00):
And with you on that high
note, it's a similar concept.
Sorry. You were going to say something.
I was going to ask
what you mean by,
compression in singing like that.
Yes.
So there is a breathy to precis spectrum
when we sing, Billie Eilish is,
very breathy.
That's really precis.
So that's what I mean
(49:21):
with compression, right?
Like a lot of compression to compressed
and my vocal folds
are to squeezing together.
And I can do that on the same note too.
Right.
Going from really precis to breathy,
and usually most of the time
(49:41):
we want to be somewhere in the middle.
Right?
So it's more like a,
where we're not breathy,
but it's also not squeezed.
Absolutely.
I feel like I do a lot of pressing
s, and, I struggle to do the the breath.
It feels very unnatural to me. Okay.
To do that. Okay.
That's amazing.
Great observation.
Glad you're telling me that.
(50:02):
Practice that okay.
How do you practice that Sighing
yeah I struggled to even do that
when you told me to do it on.
Yeah, yeah.
It's all right. It's hard right. Yeah.
You're just really focusing
on pushing air out.
Okay.
And add an H in front of it,
Right.
Yeah. Try that.
(50:23):
Yes. There you go.
That's it.
Now, all we need to do
is add more control to that, right?
So that we can sustain for longer.
Great.
Can you also try that up
higher in your range, too?
Great.
(50:43):
So up there, we got a little bit more.
Yeah.
I right I felt myself like there.
Yes.
You can move your upper body
a little bit if you want.
That was a little better already
at that H right.
Yes, yes.
So that h is what pushes
(51:04):
your vocal folds apart. Right.
So that it's easier to be, to,
to maintain that breathy sound.
Okay.
So practicing
that is going to be great for you.
And then you can do that
on scales, right.
Like a high, for example.
Right.
Or also only over a third,
works as well.
(51:28):
It's just really
whatever you want to play around with,
it doesn't really matter.
And then you just go up,
and you're really just
focusing on that breath flow,
making it sound breathy at first.
You're going to run out of breath
really quickly.
Yeah, okay.
And that's okay.
(51:49):
That's the first step.
The next step after
that is decreasing the breathiness
while still sounding breathy.
And that is something Billie
Eilish has absolutely mastered
because she has really
long phrases in her songs,
and yet she's singing breathy
through the entire thing, and it's like,
how are you not running out of breath?
Yeah.
So controlling then,
how much breath is coming through
(52:11):
while still sounding breathy is the next
the next step after that?
your observation
that kind of triggered this whole.
I think you're
spot on in that
I take a big breath
to make sure I've got,
like, that pressure. Yeah.
And I am pressing a yeah note.
And I think a lot of it is like a fear
that if I,
if I'm not
(52:31):
keeping that pressure there,
I'll lose my pitch control.
Yeah I'll go flat and you might at first
because your body's
not going to be used to it.
we don't necessarily
want to rely on pressure
because that's exhausting. Yeah. Right.
So yeah,
focusing more on flow
instead of pressure.
Like if you can just have
(52:51):
that mental change,
turning pressure into flow,
that might already be enough to help you,
you know,
just get those notes out
a little bit more easily.
Can you try that?
Let's just see what happens on that.
The grass, you know, always greener.
they say the grass out there.
(53:12):
Hey. No. Always greener.
Okay. Awesome.
Yeah, they say the grass.
Can you almost like crap.
Like grass.
The adding like an H in there. Yeah.
They say the grass out.
They wanted to.
They say the grass out there.
Great.
Can you move your arms at the same time?
(53:33):
Yes.
They say the grass out there.
Great.
I little like when you're
singing grass uses.
They say the grass out there.
Yes I know,
I know, I'm exaggerating, of course,
but there was a little bit of a
no tension moment. Right?
I felt it too.
Okay. There you go.
Because your body is like,
that's what we do on grass.
(53:53):
Like, oh, got here comes.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Try one more time.
Let's say the grass out there
that's already a little better.
They had a little bit of a hand
swoop on the grass one more time.
Try and keep it loose in your upper body.
They say the grass.
And then.
Okay, that was less body tension.
(54:14):
How was that?
It was okay, I was okay.
I was still feeling it up.
Yeah,
yeah, it's just a matter of flow, right?
We need to add
just a little bit more flow.
So I would love for you to practice
that on a breathy voice. Yeah.
They say the grass out there, it's
okay if you run out after grass
and you have to take a breath
for out there again,
(54:35):
that's not really what we're focusing on.
We're just focusing on
opening up the vocal folds
so that we can move
from that breathy to pressing spectrum.
We can move that pressing
just down a little bit.
Yeah,
You feel myself fighting that
and I need to relax into it.
I it took me a good two months personally
and it changed everything in my singing.
(54:57):
Okay. Like practicing breathy singing
literally.
It's the best.
Like it was the best thing for me
and not for everybody.
But I think for you, it's
going to be really great too.
Yeah, yeah.
Awesome.
you feel okay practicing
that on your on your own time?
Like on time? Yeah. Awesome.
I feel like I
feel more comfortable practice
that if I wasn't on camera
(55:17):
or there's a microphone.
Yes, of course
I'm like,
I don't have to worry about going flat
if I'm just at all.
No no no no no. Yeah.
It is just,
you know, you're just like you're
just making sound, right.
It's really when it comes down
to just exploring your voice.
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly, exactly.
And exercises
are not meant to be amazing
sounding or perfect
or anything like that.
We're just,
(55:38):
isolating certain parts of our voice.
Okay, absolutely.
Last part of the chorus is that,
oh, like last part of the song,
the last chorus
is that pretty much the same
as the other?
Yeah, yeah.
Same chorus. Yeah.
I'm feeling good about the chorus.
Are you feeling what.
The chorus I feel pretty good about that.
Yeah. Okay. Okay.
So two main things for you.
(55:58):
Tongue.
Yeah. Right.
Your tongue getting that out of the way
and flow.
The breathy singing stuff
that we just did. Right.
Those two things I would say
are the main things
for you to reduce effort
and still got a great sound.
And also the very first thing we did
is volume. Right.
You don't need to be quite as loud.
(56:19):
So I guess three things volume, tongue
flow, breath flow.
Okay, those are the three things for you.
Do you have any questions
about any of those three things
or anything in general?
No, I think we've covered it.
I asked as we went.
Yeah, yeah. Amazing.
I mean,
either way,
whether you apply
any of these things
or none of these things, you sound great
right now.
It's just a matter of
(56:39):
can we get that same result
with like half the effort, right.
So that you can do it again
and again and again and again and again
and I'll get tired. Right.
That's the goal.
Yeah, I love it.
Absolutely.
Please tell everybody,
where can we listen to your music?
Yeah. Cam Melton music.
You can find it at Cam melton.com or,
(57:02):
on Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple Music,
Bandcamp.
How many songs or albums
have you released?
Do you know?
I've got three singles and an EP out.
Okay. Very cool.
So we've we've got some good stuff
to listen to. Yes.
And hopefully more soon.
Okay. Very cool.
I'll be sure to include
those links as well
(57:22):
so they can find the link
in the description or the session notes
or the episode notes.
Anything else
you want to get off your chest?
You feeling good?
I feel great, thanks for having me.
Of course.
Any time.
Thank you for sharing
your beautiful song with us.
I hope this was helpful.
You have some things
that you can practice
now in your own time.
Oh, this is awesome.
Perfect, perfect.
I'm glad
and hopefully
we get to do this again sometime.
(57:43):
All right.
Thank you
Thank you everybody for tuning in.
If you want to do a session
like this, but over zoom,
depending on where you are in the world,
you have the link to book
a session
with me is in the description below,
so feel free to check that out.
I'd love to have you in a session,
otherwise we'll catch you
in the next episode. Bye bye.
said the grass up there.
(00:02):
Great.
Turn the volume knob down on the top.
Not there.
Sand the grass out there.
What was that?
definitely felt less strain.
I'm definitely, like,
trying to keep the intensity up
And sometimes it's hard
on those higher notes, because it's
easy to get real, like thin or.
(00:23):
Okay, weak sounding. Okay.
Or maybe you feel like that was weak.
Yeah, maybe a little bit weaker.
Cool. I'ma challenge you on that. Okay.
Please do it. Yes.
That sounded plenty powerful to me.
Here's the thing.
When we sing higher,
your vocal folds stretch
longer than they have to,
because the length of the vocal folds
(00:43):
determines the pitch, right?
So they have to stretch longer,
you literally use the word thin, right?
It's like it's feels or sounds
thinner up there.
I'm like, yeah, that's because it is.
But we have to.
Otherwise it turns out they say the grass
and it's just yelling on pitch.
Yeah, yeah, right.
And that's not going to serve you at all.
(01:05):
That was plenty powerful
but in a controlled way.
Hey, VoxStar, and welcome to
From Singer To Artist.
I'm Lara
Chapman, award winning
singer and songwriter
turned viral vocal coach
and the host of this show.
(01:25):
At VoxTape Studios
we help singers from all over the world
level up their voices
by teaching them
the three fundamental skills
all singers need
technique, awareness and artistry.
Whether you're looking to go pro
or just develop your voice for fun.,
My team and I are here to help.
Check the link in the description
to book your first session, or grab
some of our other resources.
(01:45):
All righty. Are you ready?
Let's get started.
being here,
for sharing your beautiful song
and your voice and your playing with us.
I already got a little sneak peek,
and it was like, oh, I'm so excited.
Usually people bring guitars or nothing.
(02:06):
Nobody's brought a piano or like,
used my piano, to accompany themselves.
So I'm really excited to
hear you and see you play
and sing at the same time.
We're going to be working on
an original song of yours today, right?
Yes. Nirvana. Pie.
Okay. What a cool title.
Nirvana pie.
Never heard that anywhere else.
How did that come to be?
(02:29):
It came at the end of an old
relationship of mine.
An ex-girlfriend of mine
had gotten her dream job in California.
I was here in Indiana,
going to grad school and,
you know, just logistically,
that was just going to be the end of us.
And, yeah, you know, I was devastated.
But I also wanted
to be really happy for her
(02:49):
because I knew it was
super important for her.
And, you know,
the song came out of that,
the concept of
going and going out and
finding your dreams
and trying to find
your own slice of nirvana.
So. Nirvana pie. Wow.
So it's kind of like from
you trying to put yourself
into her shoes,
(03:10):
like going after her dream job and.
Absolutely. Wow. Yeah. Wow.
Well, I'm really excited to hear it.
I mean, I already kind of heard it.
Like, I listened to it before you came,
but I'm.
I'm very excited
for you to share it with everybody.
And, but before we dig into your song,
you've done a lot.
You have a lot of experience in music.
(03:30):
You've played shows before.
You've, you have a recording studio
where you're an engineer
to helping other people
record their projects.
Can you tell us a little bit more
about how you got started in music
and all the things that you're doing?
Absolutely.
I grew up singing all the time.
From the time I could talk,
I was singing, and,
(03:51):
I did choir through high school.
In college,
I went
to college for
biomedical engineering, so.
Okay. Nothing music related. Yeah.
But I had some friends in college
that were,
playing in bands
and writing original music,
and it was really my first exposure
to people my age
playing music that I really liked.
(04:13):
And I met high school friends
that had done that,
but they kind of didn't play music
I actually liked.
And so I didn't
really have any concept of
real people that I knew
that were playing cool music.
And it sort of inspired me to pick up
piano first
and then guitar
pretty shortly after that.
And they were nice enough
(04:34):
to let me sit in.
And, as I was learning and growing
as a musician and,
most of my experience with
music for the first decade
or so was really
pretty solitary, me sitting at home
with, my keyboard or,
a guitar and took a while before
I could play an instrument
(04:54):
and sing at the same time.
Yeah. That's tricky.
It is.
And,
I think the first time
I performed
my own music in public was 2018.
Really? That recently?
Yeah. Not that long ago.
Okay.
I mean, I had kept it as kind of,
sort of as
a secret that,
you know, I, I did it at home.
(05:15):
But I hadn't worked up the nerve to do it
in front of people.
the first time I ever played,
I think it was actually Nirvana.
Pie was the first song
that I performed in public at, Chris
Wolf had a, original
singer songwriter showcase.
Like a, an open mic
where each got to sing one original song
at square Cat. Vinyl. Yeah.
(05:37):
Square cat.
And, I remember going out there and
my knees shaking and just terrified.
I'm sure I had a whole lot
extra vibrato that day
just from the nerves.
behind the scenes,
I had bought a little interface
and started,
writing songs at home and mixing them.
Kind of amateur at first.
(05:58):
But you know,
you do anything for a while
and you start to get a lot better at it.
Yeah.
2019 I opened a recording studio
with my partner, Rob glass.
He's a fantastic audio engineer.
And,
you know,
at that point,
I had toured around a bit
playing my own music
and, toured the Midwest, and
(06:18):
Rob was my favorite engineer
that I'd worked with.
So, yeah,
I was really stoked
to, open a studio with him.
Well, hold
on, I need to get this timeline right.
You didn't start performing until 2018,
and you were on tour in 2019 already?
I was, yeah. Whoa.
I mean, I did a whole lot of practice
before I even stepped on a stage,
but that's amazing.
(06:39):
That's fast.
I was just kind of terrified
to ever make that first step.
And then once I made
that first step was like,
okay, it's not that bad.
I can do this. Yeah.
It's usually it works.
Yeah.
You build it up in your head and like,
oh my God, this is going to be so scary.
And then you do it
and like that's actually kind of fun.
It's exhilarating. Yeah. Yes.
(06:59):
Once once you get out there
and you see the response you get and,
it's just, it's a ton of fun.
I mean, it still can be terrifying
depending on the circumstances
or doing new things.
It's always scary, but
understanding that, you know,
I can survive it, whatever happens.
Yeah.
You know,
even if the wheels completely
(07:20):
fall off, I'm probably not going to die.
Yes, most likely not.
And just,
finding ways to cope with that anxiety
And then from there,
branched out into live engineering.
So now I do a lot of live mixing.
Live engineering,
turntable and broad ripple,
part of the
45 family with the Vogue
(07:40):
and Rock, the ruins and all that.
playing live?
You don't do much these days
anymore, right?
it's been slow the last few months, but,
I had been playing with, a few groups,
I've done some solo shows
I've done and,
and I've been doing
some songwriter circles. Cool.
I love that style of show
where you get to hear
(08:01):
some of the story behind the songs. Yeah.
I'm not always the best at,
like, promoting myself.
I feel like as a musician,
you have to wear so many different hats.
Yes.
And you have to be a marketer
and, graphic designer and promoter and,
sending out emails all the time, and.
Yeah,
I'm just don't have that, like,
(08:22):
look at me, Gene.
Yeah, I get it.
And, and that's one thing
I've liked about engineering
is that I can just kind of show up and do
my job.
And, yeah,
I don't have to do promote anything.
I don't have to do any of that.
And, let's do Nirvana pie.
Let's work on that. For today.
Is there anything in particular
that you would like me
(08:43):
to pay attention to, or just in general,
I think one thing
that I've been struggling with lately
is, well, one,
I don't have the vocal endurance
since I've been doing
so much engineering.
Yeah, I haven't been singing as much.
I haven't been doing the
the three hour cover gigs
like I used to be doing.
And I think that kind of manifests
in, some straining at
(09:05):
the higher registers.
think another thing that I've run into
is that
my favorite song
that people's favorite
songs of mine tend to be ones
that are up at the highest part
of my register,
and that I'm singing, with a full voice.
And, you know,
I think that's
because it brings a lot of energy.
Yeah, energy to the performance.
But it's definitely
(09:26):
they're often the hardest ones
for me to sing. Yeah.
Or at least the hardest to sing for
a whole show is worth of song.
Yes, of course, of course.
Okay. And Nirvana pie.
Where does that sit in your voice?
Well, I've kind of rearranged it,
to have kind of more of a,
let's say lounge lounge vibe to it.
Cool.
So it's a little bit
(09:48):
more laid back,
and I dropped it down, a fourth.
Whoa. Okay. That's a lot.
It is a lot.
Okay.
part of that is, is
is in in recognition
of where my voice is right now
and, and with everything
I'm going through,
I haven't been doing
a whole lot of singing.
Yeah, with my face, but, Yeah.
So I'm still just kind of trying
to figure out how to make do
(10:09):
with where I'm at right now.
Yes.
And not strain my voice, not cause
any damage to my voice.
Yeah.
You mentioned
they removed a little bit
of your muscle, right?
They did.
So it's going to be it's
more difficult for you to
to move that side of your of your mouth.
So that is definitely something
we do want to keep in mind
when you're, when you're singing.
we want to
make sure that
(10:29):
your vocal folds are doing the job
so that we don't have to do as much
when it comes
to, like,
shaping the sound of it
in your vocal like tract.
A lot of times, singers focus only on,
like, the shaping of the sound
that they're making by like,
you know, really adjusting
their mouth shape
or really opening the mouth or whatever.
(10:49):
And I'm like,
okay, that's all important stuff.
But also we need to make sure
that the source
where the sound is coming from,
that that's efficient already down there.
So, you know, we can see depending on
what I'm hearing, you know, do
we need to adjust anything down here
or is it more the shaping of the sound
that we need to focus on?
(11:10):
But I love that
you're making your life easier by,
you know, dropping the song a fourth
and you know you're not.
Is it four half steps or a fourth?
A fourth, yeah.
Okay, so that's even more okay.
Yes.
So, you know,
sometimes we need to just honor ourselves
and our bodies and our voice
where we're at
and work
with what we've got in that moment.
(11:32):
Right. For you.
You haven't been performing as much.
Then you also had your surgery.
That doesn't help either.
So, you know, drop it down to fourth
and make that work.
As long as we can make it work somehow.
Right?
Because sometimes if we drop it a fourth
and it gets too low in the lower parts.
So, you know,
we have to
kind of like play around with it
a little bit.
But yeah, honor,
(11:52):
honor your voice
where it's at in the moment.
Yeah.
Let me know how it works
okay I will
you've heard what you'll hear
at both versions okay.
Yes, yes, I love it.
Well, do we want to start?
Maybe with, like,
the first verse
and the chorus before we
look at the entire thing.
Is that okay with you?
Yeah, that would be. Yeah.
All right, let's do it.
(12:16):
Well, it
seems to me that the place to be
is right.
Is where you can see the life, the
you have always wanted to lead.
The sometimes we, including me,
just need to be where we feel free.
So honey, please don't stand in my way.
(12:43):
Because I am leaving me all the more.
Me in.
And I ain't looking back.
No I'm not off
to find me a slice of that sweet.
(13:03):
Then found a path, yes.
Cause everywhere I've looked it
seem to be,
Nice.
Bring the javelinas.
Yes. Okay. How did it feel?
I felt pretty good.
Yeah, that was pretty darn good.
That was pretty.
How do you feel the a little allowed?
(13:24):
You feeling okay with it?
It's just fine I loved it.
You have.
And I heard this
on the recording as well.
You have a crazy vibrato in the bass
like crazy in a positive way.
Does like, vibrato is something
you quickly mentioned earlier.
Is that something that
people usually mention
about your singing?
Yeah, it's
one of the first things they mentioned.
(13:45):
Everything.
Yeah, yeah.
And I feel like as I've kind of matured
as a singer, I've, I've,
I've put a lot of active work
into like controlling it. Okay.
It was just something
that I kind of did naturally.
Okay. At first.
It was definitely not something
I ever really thought about
until I was trying
to actually tone it back
or be able to really like I'm on a pure
(14:06):
A note, as opposed to
always relying on vibrato.
Yeah, yeah,
Well, your vibrato is super fast.
Yeah, super. Do you know Post Malone?
I do know Post Malone.
Yeah.
Post Malone
also has a very distinct vibrato.
Right.
So you two are obviously
very different kinds of singers.
(14:27):
But for both of you,
the vibrato is the thing
that sticks out to me
as like
the main thing where I'm like, oh, wow,
there's not something
you usually hear, right?
So I love it.
I think it's it's really cool.
It's super fast,
super, super, super fast.
With vibrato
depending on the style
that we're singing,
like you said, you know,
we kind of have to find that balance of
(14:47):
how much of it are we using?
Because if there is a lot of a barato
happening everywhere
all the time,
it's like, oh, it gets a lot.
I thought you found a beautiful,
beautiful balance.
You know, it was there
where it's like, oh, that's kind of cool.
But it wasn't like so much of it
that I'm like, okay,
I kind of heard it like,
can you give me some straight tone
now, please?
(15:08):
Not at all.
I thought you found
a really great balance.
Yeah.
I think you lose
some of the impact of the vibrato
if it's always there.
Exactly.
Same thing
with literally anything that you do,
like when you're riffing.
For example,
if you're riffing all the time,
all over the place,
each riff
that you're doing loses that impact
because there's so much happening,
or saying with vocal flips or whatever
(15:30):
it is that you're doing,
the more of the same thing
you're doing in one song,
the less impact it has usually.
But anyways,
I'm glad we're on the same page
about that.
Physically, how does it feel?
Do you feel any tightness
or does it feel pretty easy?
I did feel a little bit of tightness.
(15:51):
Yeah, mostly in the chorus
or throughout the whole thing.
mostly in the choruses
when I,
when I kind of lifted a little bit.
And to, both in volume and.
Yeah, in, in the notes.
Yeah.
I think just working on
figuring out how to relax a bit
would probably be useful for me. Yeah.
I asked you earlier,
(16:12):
do you think the piano is a little loud?
Because I heard you
when you started
playing more in the chorus, right.
There's more happening. Playing wise.
The piano got louder
and you matched that with your vocals.
Sure.
When we're singing in the chorus,
usually we do give a little bit more.
But I wanted to make sure
that you're not overcompensating.
(16:33):
Basically, like,
vocally, you're trying to match the piano
because the piano is getting really loud.
Yeah.
So if you don't mind trying this,
I'd love to turn the volume
knob down on the piano a little bit
and see if your singing changes at all.
Yeah or not,
because you're mixing engineer,
you know how important the mix is
in somebody's ear.
(16:53):
Like what they can hear.
For me personally,
when I can't hear myself, well,
I start pushing and forcing and straining
so that I can hear myself.
Right.
I'm trying to get louder,
and that comes with a lot of strain.
So I just want to make sure
that that's not the case.
Yeah, I totally makes sense. Yeah.
And I think that it's funny
you mention that
because I have
a very old upright piano at my house
(17:15):
and the hammers,
like all the
felts on the, on
the hammers
are very hardened and worn and old, so
it doesn't have a whole lot of volume
control with, with with my hands.
Yeah.
We're, a a well-oiled piano.
Yes.
And so, I think I feel it
because it's louder
than I would necessarily
(17:36):
like to be playing.
I find myself singing louder.
And I think that that has led to me
singing with more
strain than I would
if I had a more well equipped piano.
Yes.
So this,
this may be very insightful
about you, what you pointed out.
It might make a difference.
Let's try it again.
Let's see what happens.
Well, it
(17:56):
seems to me that the place to be
is right.
Is where you can see
the life that you for these
want to do lead.
Well, sometimes we,
including me, just need to be.
When we feel free.
So honey, please don't stand in my way.
(18:23):
Because I am refitting
in the moment of opening
and dying again.
Brave and no.
And,
But off to find me
a slice of that sweet.
(18:44):
And found five yes girls everywhere
I've looked has seemed to be, okay.
How did that feel?
I think you're right.
It did feel a little bit better,
a little better.
Did you feel at all
like you were less in competition
(19:04):
with the piano,
or did that not really cross your mind?
I didn't have to fight it as much.
I didn't find it as much.
Okay. Okay. Yeah.
How you hear yourself is so important.
And these mics here right
now, we're not amplifying our own voice.
The only thing that's being played
is the piano, the microphones.
We just have to record.
So, you know, usually
when you're performing live,
(19:24):
you have some sort of monitor,
like where you amplify
your voice as well.
So it's a little bit easier
to get the levels right there.
Right.
Here in this little home studio,
we don't have that. I'm sorry,
but, that I
thought that was really great.
And I definitely don't think
you have to work
any more or be any louder in that chorus.
(19:44):
There's no need for it.
know as singers, it's sometimes like.
But I can.
So I want to and I'm like, I hear you,
but you don't have to.
So save yourself.
Because all, all that's happening
when you're, when you're louder
is you're not technically,
actually much louder.
The only thing that changes is
how much effort
(20:04):
it takes to make that sound. Yeah.
So you're really just working harder
to be maybe 2% louder.
I feel like some of it is like
I feel like I have more control.
Yes. When I put more into it.
So here's the thing.
When you're belting
and when you're loud, it's
much easier to sing that way
than when you're singing
in a soft, breathy voice.
For example, like Billie Eilish, right?
(20:27):
Very soft, breathy kind of singer.
That woman
has insane control over her instrument.
It's much harder to sing that way
than a big belting kind of thing,
because you don't have
all the force behind it, right?
So you really need to make sure that
whatever it is
you're doing at a vocal fold
level is solid,
so you're not relying
on all that air pressure
(20:48):
and that force to get the notes out.
Right.
So this is actually going to be great
for you to practice
how to get that
same kind of sound
without the force behind it
and still feel like you're in
control now. Okay, okay.
Question for you,
because of your surgery
opening your mouth,
how far does it still feel?
Okay. Like dropping your jaw.
(21:08):
I could probably drop it more than I am.
Okay. Yeah.
There's there's some limitation there.
Yeah.
And it still feels kind of unnatural.
Like, it's, like stretching a lot. Yeah.
I could probably open more.
Okay.
I feel like that would be useful, so.
Oh, when it comes to dropping your jaw,
like, it's.
It's not always the solution. Okay.
(21:29):
And this is very much.
And the sound has already been produced
posts, sounds production
essentially is is
what we're doing here
is when we're adjusting
how much we're opening the mouth.
So, this is again
just shaping the sound
that your vocal folds have created.
With you,
I don't necessarily
think you need to open a ton
(21:50):
more because on those bigger notes
that you're
sustaining a little bit longer,
you're opening nicely.
I just want to make sure that you're
also feeling
that openness
in the back of your mouth, too,
not just in the front,
so that you have this feeling of space
and more resonance, essentially.
Sure. Right.
So can we try the chorus only,
(22:12):
on la la la.
And when you're doing la la la la la la,
try to keep your jaw still
and only move the tongue.
La la la la la. Can you just try that.
La la la la la.
Okay, great.
Yeah.
La la la la la la la la la la la
la la la la la la la la la.
(22:34):
That was a beautiful skill.
Yes, I love it.
Can you open a little bit more?
Does that feel okay?
La la la la la la la la la.
All righty.
So here this is.
Your tongue is working
really hard to make that happen.
Yeah.
Your tongue
and your jaw are best buddies.
And they want to do everything together.
And moving them individually,
like, separately from each other
(22:55):
is really, really, really hard.
I was surprised by how hard that was.
Yeah, yeah.
Let's try try one more time.
Maybe, like halfway open.
This time with your jaw.
La la la la la la la la la la.
Okay. Is that feeling okay?
Yeah. Okay.
Slightly more open.
La la la la la
(23:16):
la la la
la la la la la la la la la la la.
So a you're kind of it.
This is so interesting.
Can you try nanana.
No no no no no no no no no.
Okay.
So your tongue is doing the same thing.
That is so interesting.
Can you just sustain.
Okay.
Now do you feel a difference
(23:40):
in your tongue position
when you're doing that. Oh yeah. Okay.
When you were just doing it.
La la la la la and nana nana na you you,
you did the same thing for your tongue.
It was really
kind of create it
like a ditch in your tongue.
And the tip went all the way up.
La la la la la la la la la.
Kind of like that.
La la la and non non na.
(24:01):
Technically it's further back.
It's not the tip of your tongue
like is the tip of your tongue
going up to the roof of your mouth.
Is not the tip of your tongue.
It's a little further back.
It's not all the way back like.
Will be all the way back.
But
and then then then, then
the next is somewhere
towards the front of the tongue
but not the tip of the tongue.
(24:23):
Okay.
So try that one more time
and see if you can get
not the tip of your tongue
but the front
third maybe of the tongue up on non non
non non. Great.
Now keeping the doctor and nana nana nana
na na na na na.
Can you open a little bit more.
(24:43):
No no no no no.
Yeah yeah yeah.
This is so fun. Okay.
Your tongue is like what is happening.
It really is. Yeah.
So you know some people have more tension
in the neck, others more in the jaw
and some more in the tongue.
For you,
just seeing this,
like how your tongue is trying to fight
you a little bit
on that lalala or nanana.
(25:05):
My guess is
the tongue
is probably the thing that's
holding the most tension in your singing.
Okay, so
before we actually do the lalala
on the melody, let's do it.
With a gentle tongue bite.
(25:26):
Great.
Can you try the whole course that way
and focus on keeping the tongue still?
Hee hee hee
hee hee hee hee!
(25:48):
Hee hee
hee hee
hee hee
hee!
You okay?
Talk to me about that experience
felt weird.
Yeah,
I feel like I'm more up into my, like,
(26:11):
sinuses in the way that I. Yes.
Yeah, because all your sound
is coming out of your nose now.
Yeah, right.
Because your mouth is close.
And then if you close your nose,
there's no sound
coming out anymore, right?
So make sense that you're feeling
the sound more up here in your sinuses,
because that's literally
where it's coming out.
Yeah.
Did you feel
anything in your tongue at all?
I feel like a one.
(26:32):
And having it locked
in, I felt that felt like there
was, like,
more space back in the back
because it's, like,
very forward in my mouth. Yes.
it felt like there's, like,
a different type of, back pressure and.
Yeah.
And how I'm singing. Yeah. Like that.
Did you feel it
twitch at all
or wanting to kind of like
pull back into your mouth in any parts?
(26:52):
Oh, definitely it did. Yeah. Yeah.
And trying to like, be conscious
and hold it there while I'm playing,
like, oh, how do I play this again?
What's the melody again?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's it's a lot to focus on
and all at the same time,
especially when you're also playing.
Right.
But okay,
so if your tongue is trying
to kind of like, move
back into your mouth, it's
(27:13):
what we call a tongue retraction. Right?
And that's
just a form of, of tongue tension.
And it makes sense
that you feel like
there's more space back here
in the back of your mouth now,
because your tongue is not trying to
curl up back there.
Yeah, right.
So that's kind of
what I was talking about
before with creating space.
Initially I thought
(27:34):
maybe it was your jaw,
but that was just my guess
because of your surgery, right.
But it seems like
it's actually more your tongue
than your jaw.
Okay, so can we try that one more time?
If you want, you can do it acapella
so you don't have to play
at the same time, too.
If you feel comfortable enough.
Like with the melody.
Yeah. Without playing.
Okay, let's try that.
(27:54):
Hold on.
That's a different key.
Give yourself the first.
Nope.
(28:26):
Okay.
It feels weird
that I liken it
to, changing a golf swing.
Or every time you make a swing change,
it feels so awkward.
It's.
Yes,
and I'm sure it's the same sort of thing.
Like,
I just got all of these
years of muscle memory.
Yes, 100%.
(28:46):
How I produce
all the sounds that I'm making.
And so
changing the, the architecture
and the structure
of how everything is in there.
Definitely feels weird.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Talk to me about effort levels.
Do you feel like it takes more effort
to sing this way? Less effort?
About the same?
I feel like I feel less strain here.
(29:08):
But it's harder to,
to push out to the.
There's so much more pressure.
Yeah.
Going through my nose. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
As opposed to coming out my mouth. Yeah.
I'm feeling that.
Okay, so let's make a modification
so that we don't have the sound
coming out of our nose,
but rather out of the mouth.
(29:29):
So that way we can
hopefully still feel less strain.
Because we're
still sticking the tongue out,
but the sound is not
coming out of your nose. Sure.
So all you got to do is just
open.
Now you're not biting
on your tongue anymore,
so it's going to be much harder
to keep the tongue still this way.
(29:51):
Obviously, it doesn't sound pretty.
Her hair doesn't sound pretty.
Right?
But,
we just want to focus on
relaxing the tongue as much as possible.
Keep it nice and rounded, Not pointy.
That's a pointy tongue.
Pointy tongue?
It's not a relaxed tongue.
Around tongue.
Around flat tongue is a relaxed tongue.
And so forth.
(30:15):
Okay. Yeah, let's try that.
Ahead.
(30:47):
Okay.
Okay. How is that, easier. Yeah. Easier.
Okay. Oh, yeah.
How is that last note? That very last.
No. Her.
Yeah,
it was definitely feeling
a little strained on that one. Yep.
I could literally see it in your tongue.
Yeah, right.
Your tongue was, like, pushing down.
And then when you release, it was like,
it came back out, right?
(31:07):
And it relaxed again.
So this is all about awareness building.
Yeah. Right.
Like when we want to make
some sort of change to our singing,
we first have to figure out,
well, what is holding us back right.
And now I truly believe
that your tongue is is,
is a big factor in your singing.
So like, for your effort level, right?
(31:27):
Like,
if we can relax the tongue
just a little bit more,
release it a little bit more,
have it chill out.
Your effort levels
are going to drop, right?
So every time you feel like
you're working a little bit harder,
I can literally see it in your tongue.
Yeah, yeah.
So different ways to practice this.
let me know if we can do this,
because of your surgery, but.
(31:51):
Just holding your
tongue and,
and just kind of like
pulling it out of your mouth. Yeah.
Do you want to try it,
or do you think it's going
to put too much strain on your scar?
Now, let's do it. Let's do it. Yep.
So you're just going to grab your tongue
and then same thing.
(32:20):
Haha.
Okay.
Great.
I'm going to pause you right there.
Let's try that one more time.
Take both of your hands
and add a wiggle to it.
(33:05):
Okay.
Relax. How was that?
That feels more relaxed.
Cool care.
Cool. Yeah, absolutely.
Did you feel a difference
between no wiggle and wiggle,
or was it about the same?
Would be tough for me
to determine the difference
between
practicing now three times with my tongue
out, so. Yeah, yeah, I don't.
Sorry. Okay.
It's starting to feel a bit more natural
(33:26):
the third time I'm doing it. Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, it did,
it did feel a little bit easier.
Okay. Yeah.
With the wiggle too.
It's coming out of your wrist. Right. And
it gets easier to
actually add the wiggle as you,
you know, do it more and more and more.
Just make sure you keep your head
still, like,
you're going to get very disoriented
(33:47):
if you do that.
So try and keep the wiggle in your
in your wrist. Okay.
The wiggle is just to add movement.
When we add movement,
your muscle can't tense up for sure.
So that's why
I like to add movement
when we when we try and release
tension okay.
And this is kind of the best way
to do it.
With, with your tongue,
just adding a little bit of a wiggle
(34:08):
with a paper towel,
make sure you don't use tissues
or toilet paper
that will dissolve on your tongue,
and it'll be a big mess.
Okay?
Tissues or some sort of cloth
will work as well. Okay.
But yeah, that was that was awesome.
It again is just getting that tongue
out of the way.
And this way
we can do it with an open mouth
(34:28):
compared to the tongue bite.
Where all the sound
is going to come out of your nose.
Yeah, but you do need your hands
this way. Yeah, right.
That last note was a lot more free
this time around than the previous time.
Did you feel a difference?
I totally felt it. Yeah.
Yeah. This is fascinating to me.
I love it, I love it.
(34:48):
Let's try it with a wiggle one more time
just so we can get used to this feeling.
Okay. Do you want a new piece?
Are you feeling good?
I'm fine. You're good. Okay.
And then we'll do it with the lyrics.
Haha haha.
(35:27):
I mean that last note, man.
Whew. How was it?
It was good.
Yeah, I will definitely be doing this.
I like this a lot for you.
Okay, I really do.
This is going to be great.
And let's try with the lyrics.
Let's just see what happens.
So you can put the papers on wherever.
And, and then.
Yeah, let's try with the lyrics, see
what happens,
focus on pushing your tongue
(35:49):
forward as you're singing.
Yeah. Okay, okay.
It's going to feel a little weird,
but we again
just want to fight that tongue retraction
by doing reverse tongue
tension, pushing the tongue forward
rather than back. Right.
Okay.
Let's try because I am leaving in
the morning
(36:10):
and I ain't looking back.
No I'm not,
have to find me a slice of.
That's sweet. Never.
Because everywhere I've looked
has seemed to be,
Okay.
(36:30):
How is that?
That feels a lot less tense.
Nice. Yeah.
Very cool, very cool.
I was intently staring at your tongue
the entire time.
I'm sorry if that feels awkward.
No. You're good.
Just trying to see
what your tongue is doing.
Yeah, that was pretty darn good.
Can you try one more time?
Before you do on a level,
on a scale of 1 to 10. How loud was that?
(36:51):
Probably is 7 or 8? 7 or 8.
Can you give me, like, a five?
Yeah. Okay.
As I am leaving
in the morning,
and I ain't looking back.
No, I'm not, to find me
(37:14):
slice of that sweet nerve on a pie
because everywhere I've looked
has seemed to be, Okay.
How was that?
Good.
Yeah,
I can definitely feel way less tension.
Cool.
I don't think you need to be
any louder than that.
Okay, again,
(37:35):
more volume just requires more effort.
Yeah, and there's really no no need to.
As long as we're still getting the tone
that we're looking for. Right?
Like I make a difference
between tone and intensity.
Sorry.
Wrong tone
and intensity is the same thing. Volume.
So intensity and volume
or tone and volume,
(37:55):
those are the things
that I'm differentiating.
And just more volume
is not going to get you anywhere. Right.
Because we have microphones
almost always. Right.
And so I'd rather focus on the tone
and then only use as much effort
as I need to get the tone
the way I want it to,
no matter what the volume is on it.
Right.
And that was still more powerful
(38:16):
and louder than the verse.
Yeah, right.
So you still have the contrast
because I don't want
to remove the contrast.
Right, right.
That's really, really, really good.
Awesome.
Can we do first verse and chorus together
to just kind of like
see how it evolves into the chorus?
Yeah. Do you want to play while you sure.
Yeah. Let's try.
(38:38):
Well, it seems to me that the
place to be is right is where you can see
the light that you end up always
wanting to lead with.
Sometimes we,
including me,
just need to be where we feel free.
(38:58):
So honey, please don't stand in my way.
Because I am free.
Letting in the moaning and dying.
Looking back, no, I'm, Love to find me
(39:22):
a slice of that sweet nirvana.
Five.
Because everywhere I've looked
and seem to be, cool.
How is that good? Yeah.
Real good.
Yeah, I like it a lot.
(39:44):
I like it a lot.
That was really nice.
No notes. One note.
Look in the chorus, the word look
kind of modify.
You're kind of modifying that vowel
there to, like, a Luke. Luke.
I think some of that is me
trying to focus intently
on my tongue positioning, okay.
As opposed to like, my diction fair and
(40:08):
so it'd probably be something
I would tweak after
I kind of got used to.
Fair, totally fair.
Look, compared to Luke
is going to be a lot easier
to sing, though, okay?
Because it's more open.
Yeah. Yeah. Look, look.
Okay, look,
what's that phrase?
everywhere I've looked
has seemed to be out.
Yeah.
Can you try that phrase one more time?
(40:29):
Because everywhere I've looked.
Yeah, this seemed the, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay. How was that?
I like that, yeah,
that definitely is an easier
syllable or vowel sound.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Very cool. Yeah. Keep that. That's good.
It makes it easier to understand
what you're singing too, right?
(40:51):
He's like Luke, I'm like,
what is that
look, because that's how we
we speak it too, right?
Look, we don't say, Luke.
We say, I am your father.
Yeah.
There you go. Perfect.
Very nice questions about first verse.
Chorus. Are we feeling good there?
I'm feeling pretty good.
Yeah. I like this.
I think this will definitely
(41:12):
be something
I'm incorporating
into my practice regime, I love it.
Do we want to keep going
with the rest of the song?
Sure. Into the second verse.
Yeah. See what we got?
Falcon Pass and missed with those weird
jaws of truth and battle scars.
Kevin, with a heavy load.
(41:34):
Nice.
But I don't know if
this is
a right, but I just can't keep losing.
Said, the things in life.
I know what that I need.
So I every faith in the.
Oh me and
(41:58):
and I ain't looking back.
No, I'm not
lost to find me a slice
of that sweet beef on a farm.
Because everywhere I've looked
and seem to be,
(42:20):
cool.
I'm happy.
How are you feeling about it?
I feel good, cool, cool.
Very nice.
You had some beautiful riffs
in that second verse too.
Yeah, and you nailed them.
Thank you.
No notes.
Moving on to the bridge.
Do you have a bridge?
I do have a bridge to the bridge.
Out with trees.
(42:43):
Ain't just a whisper
you can't talk about.
With no one else there for the best.
And there ain't no is greener.
But I tell em all about it.
(43:03):
Once I find out for myself.
Because I am leaving him.
Do you mind if we go outside there? Cool.
How did that, bridge feel?
Pretty good.
I mean, there's that, like,
high note
that I hit
that is like
the probably the highest in the song.
If I up until this point, it is.
(43:24):
Yeah.
If it doesn't go higher at the end,
then yes. Yeah, yeah.
How on earth did you ever do this
a fourth higher.
Oh, the melodies changed. That's it.
Okay, okay. It's a very different song.
Okay.
I'm like, I'm sorry.
What?
Okay, okay.
Fair enough. Yeah, yeah.
(43:44):
Okay. Two.
That makes me feel better about myself.
Okay.
Can we try that high part?
One more time?
Can you do it
so I can hear the melody one more time?
You can do the whole
bridge if it's easier.
I quit drinking.
Just whisper.
You can't talk about
(44:06):
with no one else.
They said the present day all right.
Da da da da da da.
What's the lyrics on that?
They say the grass out there
ain't always greener.
They say the grass.
You're saying you're singing grace
grass out there.
And I'm like, what's grass? Grass?
(44:28):
They say the grass, grass.
They say the grass out there.
Yeah.
So you're, you're
singing it more internally.
That gives you
that discretion compared to grass.
It's the grass is going to have a lot of
like force behind it
if we're really opening it up.
Yeah. Yeah.
Who like.
(44:48):
Well let's just let's just try it.
Let's see what happens.
They say the grass just said the grass
up there. Great.
Turn the volume knob down on the top.
Not there.
Sand the grass out there.
What was that?
definitely felt less strain.
I'm definitely, like,
trying to keep the intensity up
(45:10):
And sometimes it's hard
on those higher notes, because it's
easy to get real, like thin or.
Okay, weak sounding. Okay.
Or maybe you feel like that was weak.
Yeah, maybe a little bit weaker.
Cool. I'ma challenge you on that. Okay.
Please do it. Yes.
That sounded plenty powerful to me.
(45:31):
Here's the thing.
When we sing higher,
your vocal folds stretch
longer than they have to,
because the length of the vocal folds
determines the pitch, right?
So they have to stretch longer,
and it's just like a rubber band.
When we stretch out a rubber band,
it gets thinner.
Yeah, yeah.
It's the same thing for your vocal folds.
So when you're,
you literally use the word thin, right?
(45:52):
It's like it's feels or sounds
thinner up there.
I'm like, yeah, that's because it is.
But we have to.
Otherwise it turns out they say the grass
and it's just yelling on pitch.
Yeah, yeah, right.
And that's not going to serve you at all.
That was plenty powerful
but in a controlled way.
Not I really kind of way.
(46:14):
Right.
And it's hard
like when we're used to singing
something a certain way.
It's very much
like, oh,
this is less than what I was doing.
So it's not powerful enough.
And I'm like, no, actually,
that was that was plenty powerful.
Like the tone was spot on on that. Okay.
I don't think you have to do more.
Okay.
Yeah,
(46:35):
yeah,
I am giving you permission to do less.
Thank you.
No, really?
Because that sounded amazing to me.
That sounded way more controlled,
way more sustainable.
Yet still plenty powerful.
Okay, I'm not missing any sort of power.
And by the way,
when I'm telling you this,
I'm also equally
as much telling this to myself
because I struggle from the same thing.
(46:55):
I'm just always too much,
too much, too much.
You don't need to work harder than that.
That was amazing.
I loved that, one thing I did hear
was they say the grass sounded
like a
release of breath at the very end.
I love that as a stylistic tool.
I just want to make sure
(47:16):
that you're not doing that
because you're
not really
using your breath in the phrase,
you know, like
sometimes
when you get to these higher notes,
we like
nether,
and then we kind of hold everything back
because we kind of get afraid. Yeah.
Make sure that you're still keeping
that flow of air.
That's going to be
the support for the top,
not the air, the airflow.
(47:38):
Yeah. Okay.
Can you just give me a sigh
like a, great.
Can you make that breath of air?
That was quieter.
Not necessarily breath of air more.
There you go.
That's breath of air.
And I'll give me a little bit more volume
on that while
maintaining the breathiness.
(47:59):
Great.
Okay. How does that feel?
I definitely don't
do a lot of breathiness.
And I,
I've actually wanted
to incorporate more of that
into my singing. Okay.
And one thing
I really wanted to like
the tone back then like just,
all the time. Yeah.
And be able
to do really intimate things
real up on the, on the minor.
(48:19):
Yeah.
Real hot and hear
that like breathiness and.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well it's going to be great
as a stylistic tool
if you want to use it,
but it's also going to be great
for your overall vocal technique. Yeah.
Because when we're practicing
breathy and, you know,
some people out there say like breathy
singing is going to hurt your voice.
And I'm like, no, it's not.
(48:39):
Excuse me? It's not.
It's actually for a certain
kind of singer can be very helpful.
I personally am a very prissy kind
of singer. Too much compression.
So practicing breathy singing helps
open up my vocal folds a little bit more.
So they're not squeezing together
so tightly so I can get more flow.
More breath flow. Okay.
(49:00):
And with you on that high
note, it's a similar concept.
Sorry. You were going to say something.
I was going to ask
what you mean by,
compression in singing like that.
Yes.
So there is a breathy to precis spectrum
when we sing, Billie Eilish is,
very breathy.
That's really precis.
So that's what I mean
(49:21):
with compression, right?
Like a lot of compression to compressed
and my vocal folds
are to squeezing together.
And I can do that on the same note too.
Right.
Going from really precis to breathy,
and usually most of the time
(49:41):
we want to be somewhere in the middle.
Right?
So it's more like a,
where we're not breathy,
but it's also not squeezed.
Absolutely.
I feel like I do a lot of pressing
s, and, I struggle to do the the breath.
It feels very unnatural to me. Okay.
To do that. Okay.
That's amazing.
Great observation.
Glad you're telling me that.
(50:02):
Practice that okay.
How do you practice that Sighing
yeah I struggled to even do that
when you told me to do it on.
Yeah, yeah.
It's all right. It's hard right. Yeah.
You're just really focusing
on pushing air out.
Okay.
And add an H in front of it,
Right.
Yeah. Try that.
(50:23):
Yes. There you go.
That's it.
Now, all we need to do
is add more control to that, right?
So that we can sustain for longer.
Great.
Can you also try that up
higher in your range, too?
Great.
(50:43):
So up there, we got a little bit more.
Yeah.
I right I felt myself like there.
Yes.
You can move your upper body
a little bit if you want.
That was a little better already
at that H right.
Yes, yes.
So that h is what pushes
(51:04):
your vocal folds apart. Right.
So that it's easier to be, to,
to maintain that breathy sound.
Okay.
So practicing
that is going to be great for you.
And then you can do that
on scales, right.
Like a high, for example.
Right.
Or also only over a third,
works as well.
(51:28):
It's just really
whatever you want to play around with,
it doesn't really matter.
And then you just go up,
and you're really just
focusing on that breath flow,
making it sound breathy at first.
You're going to run out of breath
really quickly.
Yeah, okay.
And that's okay.
(51:49):
That's the first step.
The next step after
that is decreasing the breathiness
while still sounding breathy.
And that is something Billie
Eilish has absolutely mastered
because she has really
long phrases in her songs,
and yet she's singing breathy
through the entire thing, and it's like,
how are you not running out of breath?
Yeah.
So controlling then,
how much breath is coming through
(52:11):
while still sounding breathy is the next
the next step after that?
your observation
that kind of triggered this whole.
I think you're
spot on in that
I take a big breath
to make sure I've got,
like, that pressure. Yeah.
And I am pressing a yeah note.
And I think a lot of it is like a fear
that if I,
if I'm not
(52:31):
keeping that pressure there,
I'll lose my pitch control.
Yeah I'll go flat and you might at first
because your body's
not going to be used to it.
we don't necessarily
want to rely on pressure
because that's exhausting. Yeah. Right.
So yeah,
focusing more on flow
instead of pressure.
Like if you can just have
(52:51):
that mental change,
turning pressure into flow,
that might already be enough to help you,
you know,
just get those notes out
a little bit more easily.
Can you try that?
Let's just see what happens on that.
The grass, you know, always greener.
they say the grass out there.
(53:12):
Hey. No. Always greener.
Okay. Awesome.
Yeah, they say the grass.
Can you almost like crap.
Like grass.
The adding like an H in there. Yeah.
They say the grass out.
They wanted to.
They say the grass out there.
Great.
Can you move your arms at the same time?
(53:33):
Yes.
They say the grass out there.
Great.
I little like when you're
singing grass uses.
They say the grass out there.
Yes I know,
I know, I'm exaggerating, of course,
but there was a little bit of a
no tension moment. Right?
I felt it too.
Okay. There you go.
Because your body is like,
that's what we do on grass.
(53:53):
Like, oh, got here comes.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Try one more time.
Let's say the grass out there
that's already a little better.
They had a little bit of a hand
swoop on the grass one more time.
Try and keep it loose in your upper body.
They say the grass.
And then.
Okay, that was less body tension.
(54:14):
How was that?
It was okay, I was okay.
I was still feeling it up.
Yeah,
yeah, it's just a matter of flow, right?
We need to add
just a little bit more flow.
So I would love for you to practice
that on a breathy voice. Yeah.
They say the grass out there, it's
okay if you run out after grass
and you have to take a breath
for out there again,
(54:35):
that's not really what we're focusing on.
We're just focusing on
opening up the vocal folds
so that we can move
from that breathy to pressing spectrum.
We can move that pressing
just down a little bit.
Yeah,
You feel myself fighting that
and I need to relax into it.
I it took me a good two months personally
and it changed everything in my singing.
(54:57):
Okay. Like practicing breathy singing
literally.
It's the best.
Like it was the best thing for me
and not for everybody.
But I think for you, it's
going to be really great too.
Yeah, yeah.
Awesome.
you feel okay practicing
that on your on your own time?
Like on time? Yeah. Awesome.
I feel like I
feel more comfortable practice
that if I wasn't on camera
(55:17):
or there's a microphone.
Yes, of course
I'm like,
I don't have to worry about going flat
if I'm just at all.
No no no no no. Yeah.
It is just,
you know, you're just like you're
just making sound, right.
It's really when it comes down
to just exploring your voice.
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly, exactly.
And exercises
are not meant to be amazing
sounding or perfect
or anything like that.
We're just,
(55:38):
isolating certain parts of our voice.
Okay, absolutely.
Last part of the chorus is that,
oh, like last part of the song,
the last chorus
is that pretty much the same
as the other?
Yeah, yeah.
Same chorus. Yeah.
I'm feeling good about the chorus.
Are you feeling what.
The chorus I feel pretty good about that.
Yeah. Okay. Okay.
So two main things for you.
(55:58):
Tongue.
Yeah. Right.
Your tongue getting that out of the way
and flow.
The breathy singing stuff
that we just did. Right.
Those two things I would say
are the main things
for you to reduce effort
and still got a great sound.
And also the very first thing we did
is volume. Right.
You don't need to be quite as loud.
(56:19):
So I guess three things volume, tongue
flow, breath flow.
Okay, those are the three things for you.
Do you have any questions
about any of those three things
or anything in general?
No, I think we've covered it.
I asked as we went.
Yeah, yeah. Amazing.
I mean,
either way,
whether you apply
any of these things
or none of these things, you sound great
right now.
It's just a matter of
(56:39):
can we get that same result
with like half the effort, right.
So that you can do it again
and again and again and again and again
and I'll get tired. Right.
That's the goal.
Yeah, I love it.
Absolutely.
Please tell everybody,
where can we listen to your music?
Yeah. Cam Melton music.
You can find it at Cam melton.com or,
(57:02):
on Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple Music,
Bandcamp.
How many songs or albums
have you released?
Do you know?
I've got three singles and an EP out.
Okay. Very cool.
So we've we've got some good stuff
to listen to. Yes.
And hopefully more soon.
Okay. Very cool.
I'll be sure to include
those links as well
(57:22):
so they can find the link
in the description or the session notes
or the episode notes.
Anything else
you want to get off your chest?
You feeling good?
I feel great, thanks for having me.
Of course.
Any time.
Thank you for sharing
your beautiful song with us.
I hope this was helpful.
You have some things
that you can practice
now in your own time.
Oh, this is awesome.
Perfect, perfect.
I'm glad
and hopefully
we get to do this again sometime.
(57:43):
All right.
Thank you
Thank you everybody for tuning in.
If you want to do a session
like this, but over zoom,
depending on where you are in the world,
you have the link to book
a session
with me is in the description below,
so feel free to check that out.
I'd love to have you in a session,
otherwise we'll catch you
in the next episode. Bye bye.
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