October 6, 2025 • 25 mins
-
Description
If you’ve ever found yourself trying to process what’s happening in your life and put it into a song, but not quite finding the right words for it - this episode is for you. Coach Juliana and I talked about what you can do to turn your thoughts, feelings and emotions into lyrics that touch your audience on a deeper level - whether the lyrics are happy or sad!
👉 Grab the Songwriting Framework PDF here (currently on sale for just $7!): https://lessons.voxtapestudios.com/the-songwriting-framework-pdf
👉 Join our live class called How To Write Songs You’ll Actually Like happening on October 14th: https://lessons.voxtapestudios.com/how-to-write-songs-youll-actually-like-live-masterclass
🔔 Subscribe & follow for new episodes every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
a lot of the time people are like
(00:01):
well I just like
don't know what to write about
I'm like okay
like what are you going through
and sometimes students let me in to their little mind
and they open the doors sometimes they're like no
I'm like okay
I respect that I respect that
but at least be honest with yourself
like what are the thoughts like
sit with it it's uncomfortable sometimes
like not fun to be with your own thoughts sometimes
(00:24):
and that's okay and it definitely allows
for feelings to come out a little quicker
and all that
I do recommend students object writing still like
I'm like if you could do that every day
you will be so thankful
because what it teaches you is to
come up with descriptive words quicker
so how would you describe a water bottle
(00:44):
right so
it's using a little bit more vocabulary
than you're used to with topic writing
so if you use object writing within your topic writing
you're
you're winning
cause you're being more descriptive
with your storytelling
(01:07):
Hey Vox Star
and welcome to from singer to artist
I'm Lara Chapman award winning singer and songwriter
turned viral vocal coach and the host of this show
at VoxTape Studios
we help singers from all over the world
level up their voices
by teaching them the three fundamental skills
all singers need technique
awareness and artistry
whether you're looking to go pro
(01:28):
or just develop your voice for fun
my team and I are here to help
check the link in the description
to book your first session
or grab some of our other resources
Alrighty are you ready
let's get started a lot of times
the reason why people get into songwriting
in the first place
is because they wanna tell their own stories
or they wanna find a creative way of
expressing themselves
(01:49):
but then
they struggle with actually expressing themselves
and writing lyrics that mean something to them um
and to their audience then
of course as well
so to talk about how to actually write lyrics
that mean something to you
that you're proud of that you're like yes
I can't wait to share this with somebody
I've got our wonderful coach
Juliana in the studio here with me
hello the virtual studio
(02:11):
we are in the virtual studio hahaha hello
yeah yeah right
welcome to LA welcome to my home
welcome to my basement hahaha
um writing lyrics
oh my god I mean
I could go on and on and on and on
about how writing lyrics was always so hard for me
but like what is your relationship to lyric writing
(02:33):
yeah it's storytelling
you're you're an
an artist at this point you're like
connecting words and feelings
and transmitting them to people
so that they can understand
and storytelling has been around since we were cavemen
so it's not impossible you can literally do it
(02:54):
um so
I think it's just
understanding what your story is first
before we yes
try and oh OK
we're already getting into it
I love it we're you
Juliana's like girl
we ain't wasting time here
let's get right to it OK
let's do it let's do it
can you say that again
cause that was like wisdom right there
(03:17):
what I say um
okay so
haha shoot
I don't know what I said or how did I said it
but like
making sure that you know what your story is
that part before you put it into words
so understanding what you're saying
what you're feeling so that then you can put those yes
(03:41):
words 100% into the song
understanding your story before you put it into words
essentially um
I so agree with that and I think this is why
these devices right here are just hmm
like they're robbing us of good storytelling
like being able to write good stories
(04:03):
because we never just sit there
in our thoughts and in our feelings anymore
we are always distracting ourselves with our phones
like
you're waiting somewhere at a light to cross the street
it's 15 seconds maybe
what is everybody doing
they pull out their phones and look at memes or whatnot
right the news
(04:24):
whatever it is and because we are never bored
we're never alone with our thoughts
so many people we feel anxious right
we still have the feelings
they still feel heartbroken
they still feel happy they still feel anxious
they still feel sad a joyful whatever
insert emotion here we still feel things
but we can't put it into words
(04:45):
because we never take the time to actually figure out
why do we feel this way what made us feel this way
what is going on
and I think that's also why mental health is
on the decline
not to get too deep into that
but I do I do think that this is a big
(05:08):
big big reason why we're not writing lyrics that are
frankly meaningful to us right
yeah I agree
I think it's a lot of the time people are like well
I just like
don't know what to write about
I'm like okay
like what are
what are you going through
and sometimes students let me in to their little mind
(05:31):
and they open the doors and I'm like
oh thank you
sometimes they're like no
I'm like okay
I respect that I respect that
but at least be honest with yourself
like what are the thoughts like
sit with it it's uncomfortable sometimes
like
it's not fun to be with your own thoughts sometimes
and that's okay write them out
like I'm feeling like
(05:53):
a little bit of poop why
like what is the thing why
like
it's just a lot of just understanding your own brain
and people are very scared to do that
but especially if you wanna write songs
you gotta get in you gotta get in there
you gotta get messy you have to get your feet dirty
it's vulnerable it's very
very vulnerable and scary
(06:14):
like you said but the good news is
you don't have to share it with anyone
if you don't want to like
you can write a song
just for the sake of writing a song
and getting your thoughts and your feelings out it
you don't necessarily have to share it with anyone
I coach Bree from our team was on the podcast once
and I think it was an episode
(06:35):
where we were all in the studio
but anyways she said like
how amazing is it that these wonderful people
that have chosen to write songs
that they've also chosen to share them with us
like isn't that so amazing
and I was like that is so beautifully put haha
like thank you for choosing to share your thoughts
(06:55):
and your feelings and your emotions
and all of that right
so it's brave to do that but you don't have to do it
you can write a song
just for the sake of writing a song
and then decide what to do with it later
yeah that's okay
but so I think there are a couple like little
uh tools maybe uh
(07:15):
that you can
that you can use to make it not so overwhelming
to sit down and write down your thoughts uh
I think yeah
one of them is journaling
a lot of a lot of writers journal
I'm not gonna lie I'm a terrible journaler
I don't journal okay
thank you that makes me feel better
me too
oh that makes me feel so much better
because I'm like Laura
you're the only songwriter out there
who doesn't journal no
(07:36):
it's I
I don't know why like
same thing I'm like hmm
I rather just like
blurred them out out loud
and play and sing at the same time
just sitting with it I don't know
okay I
if you can do it yeah
I think it can be a helpful tool
to just get used to writing something right
getting something on a piece of paper without like
oh yeah
and this needs to be a verse
(07:57):
and this needs to be a chorus
and you know like
without those guidelines yeah
um so that's why I think journaling can be helpful
I just personally don't do it
sorry about that yeah
besides that my absolute absolute
absolute absolute favorite tool
when it comes to getting my thoughts out
(08:17):
on a piece of paper
so that I can write lyrics that make sense
that tell a story
and that actually means something to me
and that are gonna connect with my audience too
is topic writing and
I don't know Juliana
before we started working together
have you heard about topic writing before
or is that something that I made up
because I don't know if I made it up
(08:39):
or if I heard it somewhere
and then I just chose to claim it
I literally don't know no
it I have heard of it
maybe not with those words
but I I do
it's like yeah
subject writing it's like the theme writing
so it's like
describing what you're gonna be writing about
and we have yes
topic writing and object writing
(08:59):
so object writing is a lot more specific
so object writing could be um
rainy day so like
all of the phrases words
whatever that you can think of a rainy day
like cloudy
muggy nostalgic
sad blah blah blah
you could go there whatever
and maybe topic writing would be like um
(09:23):
a melancholic feeling of yes
missing someone or whatever
being heartbroken over something
and it just so happens that it's raining wow yes
we put those together and boom
you have a song yeah
I again
I don't know if I made up the term topic writing or not
but in case I did
it definitely was inspired by the term object writing
(09:45):
right
cause that was something that we did a lot at Berkeley
you have your experience with songwriting at Berkeley
too you did one of their courses as well right
sounds so so big
and I was like it's just a little yeah
but yeah they do teach you that Benatar yeah
was it Pat yes Pat
yes yes yes
what's his name haha
(10:05):
shout out to Pat shout out
um and so we were doing it
and we were doing it in class and as homework
and I would always struggle so much
to then take what I wrote in a topic writing exercise
into an actual song
because they made us write about like
uh huh water bottle
and like just random objects
(10:26):
and I'm like cool
cool cool cool
what does this have to do with my song
that I'm trying to write here
right so it's almost like the journaling thing right
like you're
you're journaling for the sake of journaling
not for the sake of writing a song
and object writing very much felt the same to me
and then
I just could not bridge the gap between object writing
or journaling or both
(10:48):
to then actually writing a song
so it was like instead of writing about a random object
yeah let's write about the actual topic of the song
and so I was like topic writing
that makes sense yeah
hahaha yeah
and it definitely allows
for feelings to come out a little quicker
(11:09):
and all that
I do recommend students object writing still
like I'm like
if you could do that every day
you will be so thankful because
what it teaches you
is to come up with descriptive words quicker
so how would you describe a water bottle
right so
it's using a little bit more vocabulary
than you're used to with topic writing
(11:31):
so if you use object writing within your topic writing
you're
you're winning
right cause
you're being more descriptive with your storytelling
it's not like it's a rainy day
yeah sad
like oh hahaha
sweet yeah
what else can we say about that right
it's like the rain is pouring down my window
(11:53):
and then I can hear whatever
like you could like
go in the movie take the people with you
right is what it comes down to
so it's a lot yeah
so I think those two together are magic
I love what you said for people
and I think
a lot of people
are scared to be specific in their songs
uh because they're like
well now it's not relatable anymore
(12:14):
like you don't just
just saying something about like
you know how like
a lot of girls
like wearing their boyfriend's hoodies and what not
like that is very relatable across whatever
but they don't wanna like really um
like be specific about what the hoodie is like
like what it smells like or what the color of it is
(12:36):
or the texture of it or whatever
because then they're like no
that's too specific then it's not relatable anymore
but the more specific you actually are
the more relatable it becomes
because the more oh
and this is a term I stole from uh
Friedemann Feindisen from holistic songwriting kopfkino
the more these people can see the story
play out in their heads kopfkino is a German term
(12:59):
and it literally means
like Head Cinema
Kopf is head Kino is cinema
so it's like
the story that you're seeing play out in your head
and the more specific you are
the more people can see the story
if you're vague they can't see it
and then they can't relate to it anymore
yeah it doesn't matter
if your specific story doesn't happen to someone
(13:22):
as is that writing will bring something to them like
oh that didn't happen to me
but this other thing happened to me
and now I'm thinking about that
I'm like oh wait
I wanna hear it again no
100% hear it again
the details don't all need to line up exactly
with the other person's experience
no yeah
oh yeah
but they can still relate
it's impossible they can still relate right
you can't do that yeah
(13:44):
like the amount of times like
I'm sure everyone seen this
like people are like
I just feel like this singer could be whoever
they're like writing they're reading my journals
they're like they're living my life
and it's not necessarily because they're writing
exactly their life but because you're being honest
and we all have very similar experiences
of course they happen in different ways
(14:04):
but just being honest with what that feels like
what a heartbreak feels like
like we all have felt that in some way
if you haven't I'm jealous
but it's important haha
like it's
we have to be able to be honest
with how those feelings feel
and love like all the happy stuff too
like sometimes that's harder to write about
cause you're like oh
(14:25):
I don't want to sound cheesy
I don't want to sound cliche
yes OK
find a cooler way to say it
so you would say harder to find a cooler way to say it
that's what you do object writing for
you know what yeah
why did they not explain it that way at Berkeley
then I feel like I would have understood
why we're doing this in the first place
maybe they did and I just wasn't paying attention
that's also very possible
(14:45):
yeah very possible
I'm not a good student
you'll never know but now we can do it
um okay I
that's it um
I like the the combination of the topic
writing and the object writing um
and like you said
writing happy songs is sometimes harder
(15:06):
than to write heartbreaking songs
or sad songs and and what not
and um
I also believe that happy songs can also be very
very meaningful they don't like
it doesn't have to be a sad song to be meaningful
oh yeah and this is
this is something that I always struggled with
cause I had a very happy childhood
(15:28):
I don't really have any trauma
Yay me
sorry to brag don't mean it that way
but um
I mean I
I do but that's besides the point
um I was always like okay
gotta make
make stuff up so that I can write meaningful songs
or that people would take me seriously as an artist
(15:50):
like I would I
you know
like when you're watching American Idol and what not
it's always the people with the worst stories
like life stories that would make it far in the show
and I'm like I'm never gonna be successful
cause I don't have any heartbreaking stories
my parents are still alive
no I know
and they're doing that on purpose
by the way like
we could talk about that another time
(16:12):
but yeah no
you don't have to have a very sad life
to write a beautiful song
like you know
of course like
when we're honest and those feelings come through
it's more authentic but
I mean I was just thinking like
happy songs and I thought like
a Thousand Years by Christina Perry
Christina Perry beautiful song
(16:33):
and it's cute and it's like
not cheesy it's like just being like
you know vulnerable
with letting someone know
that they would wait a thousand years to be with you
like it's so beautiful
like I could cry
so it's like
you could go all the way into the cheesiness
and then yes
make it sparkle like
(16:54):
make it I have a very
you know a very cheesy song that I wrote for my husband
before we got married and I was like
maybe I'll sing this at my wedding
and then
I decided to sing a different song at my wedding
that I also wrote
but I recently got it out of the vault again because
you know we were about to do songwriting
like on our podcast and at our studio in general
(17:17):
for a whole month and I was like alright
well let me see if I can find some of my old songs
that I wrote and I found one
and it's called um
all yours I was like
well that's
that's not a good title but whatever
it is what it is again
I wrote the song before we got married so
oh my gosh
at least eight years ago and
(17:38):
at the chorus is my ears have nothing
to say is I'm all yours right
so the chorus is like it's so cheesy
but it's cute it's kind of cute
(17:59):
it works together with the
with the um with the verses
cause the verses are like super specific
right like
I love when the sun shines through the blinds
on my still sleeping face
I love the sound of birds singing with Grace
or something like that
and then I love when you come kiss my lips
(18:19):
though you're not quite awake
like that kind of like
just like descriptive things and things that I love
painting the picture yeah exactly exactly
and then the cheesy chorus
and I don't like sure
there's probably things that I could do
to make it a little bit less cheesy
but it feels right to me and I was like okay
well we're just gonna keep it that way
(18:40):
and it's so funny because I got a um
a message from somebody on Instagram
cause I shared that song to my Instagram stories
and then the next day she
she replied and she was like
I just wanted to tell you that
when I heard your song yesterday
I was like another ballad
like it's just another ballad right
there's nothing special about it
it's just another ballad
(19:01):
and now today I keep singing your song
so it's actually a really good song hahaha
and I was like alright here there
there you go there you go
and I have this
a feeling with a lot of songs that I hear
the first time I hear a song
I'm like why is everybody so obsessed with the song
it's not that good
and then I hear it again and I was like
and then every time I hear it again
(19:22):
I'm like Anna
this is actually a really good song
this is a banger
haha
um yep
yep yep
it happens we always resist the mainstream
I love it but it's mainstream for a reason
I'm a pop girly through and through
me too I love
same give me all the pop girlies
I'm like I
I eat them up Sabrina Chopper
(19:43):
Ariana just mmm hmm
I love that that's so cute
um I
I have one more question for you
when it comes to writing lyrics that are meaningful
can you write meaningful lyrics to you
even if the stuff that you're writing about
is not out of a page from your own book
(20:06):
like your own life absolutely absolutely
I started writing when I was very
very young like
actually writing not the silly songs I wrote um
when I was like about 11 12
I hadn't had a boyfriend yet
I hadn't been kissed
and I was writing the saddest breakup songs
so yeah
I think you can as long as you got an imagination
(20:28):
and you put it to work
and you create your own little movie
cause my god the
the amount of things I made up in my head about people
oh yeah
I didn't know but then I would like
play it in my head you know
just to be rude with my boyfriend or something
I love it
around 13 years old you know
(20:49):
I was gonna be your Harry Styles
so you can make sure you can make stuff up
you can make stuff up as much as you can in your head
and as long as you feel it
cause I wanted that to happen
so I made it happen in my
in my songs you know
so it could be whatever
it doesn't have to be that specific
but yeah it doesn't have to be real
(21:12):
you can make it up there's a really cool um
interview with one of my face Taylor Swift
and I know everyone else loves Taylor Swift
so I'm gonna share it I'm not sure where it was
I think it's her documentary on folklore
she wrote a full album on stories that were in her own
(21:33):
and no one would know that'cause like
they feel so real and like
some of them are real people
but they're not like her stories
um I think it's folklore
if not everyone
don't come at me I'm so sorry
but it's either of the two
or maybe both of them but yeah
she speaks about like all my life
I wrote about things that only happened to me
and then I wanted as challenge
(21:55):
it was a pandemic right
so like she was like OK
let me write a whole album
of things that haven't happened to me
but to someone else and the amount of success that
you know those albums got
so yeah
I made up a lot of stories about you
like a lot of toxic relationship stuff but I'm like
if somebody was toxic in that relationship
it was probably me
(22:16):
right like
no like again
nothing bad has ever happened to me
no that's not true
but you know
like I would
I would make up these these things too and
and the song can still mean something to you
even if it's not real for sure
anything else that we need to talk about
when it comes to writing lyrics that are meaningful
(22:36):
no just like
be honest be honest with yourself first
so that then can you know
you can be authentic
and people can feel that authenticity
cause if we're being vague
you're not gonna capture people's attention
it might be a pretty melody
but that might be all that is for sure
and we want we want the full experience
we want a story we want a good melody
(22:58):
we want a good song all of them yes
so yes
be honest with us thank you Juliana
for sharing all of your thoughts around songwriting
or lyric writing and more specifically
I Learned a little something too
especially about object writing
and that you use that to make your songs more a clever
right right
(23:19):
like you're using more
different words to explain the same thing
or to express the same thing
but you're not using everyday words
yeah exactly
so that's a big takeaway from you for today
so thank you for sharing that
uh we created a little PDF guide
called Songwriting Framework
um that's gonna help you write your first complete song
(23:40):
your first awesome song
your first song that you really like
there is a whole part on lyric writing in there
um my four step lyric writing formula is in there
um how to write some more clever lyrics is in there
as well so if you wanna go ahead and check that out
it's currently on sale for just $7 instead of $27
the link is in the description below
(24:01):
and also we are hosting
Juliana and I are hosting a live class called
how to write songs you'll actually like
and guess what lyrics is a part of that too hahaha
um if you want to come and join us in this live class
it's happening on October 14th at six PM Eastern time
that's a Tuesday it's free to attend
(24:23):
if you can't attend live
and you still wanna make sure you're not missing out
uh you can upgrade to a VIP ticket
it comes with a bunch of other perks too
for example that songwriting framework
you can get it as a bonus when you get the VIP ticket
and the VIP ticket is only $17
and there's other bonuses in there too
so if you wanna get the songwriting framework PDF
(24:46):
I would just recommend getting the VIP ticket for
the class because it's included in there
plus a bunch of other other stuff as well
but anyways links below
check it out uh
thank you Juliana
for joining
we have some more songwriting stuff to discuss uh
but for that we'll see you in the next episode bye yes
a lot of the time people are like
(00:01):
well I just like
don't know what to write about
I'm like okay
like what are you going through
and sometimes students let me in to their little mind
and they open the doors sometimes they're like no
I'm like okay
I respect that I respect that
but at least be honest with yourself
like what are the thoughts like
sit with it it's uncomfortable sometimes
like not fun to be with your own thoughts sometimes
(00:24):
and that's okay and it definitely allows
for feelings to come out a little quicker
and all that
I do recommend students object writing still like
I'm like if you could do that every day
you will be so thankful
because what it teaches you is to
come up with descriptive words quicker
so how would you describe a water bottle
(00:44):
right so
it's using a little bit more vocabulary
than you're used to with topic writing
so if you use object writing within your topic writing
you're
you're winning
cause you're being more descriptive
with your storytelling
(01:07):
Hey Vox Star
and welcome to from singer to artist
I'm Lara Chapman award winning singer and songwriter
turned viral vocal coach and the host of this show
at VoxTape Studios
we help singers from all over the world
level up their voices
by teaching them the three fundamental skills
all singers need technique
awareness and artistry
whether you're looking to go pro
(01:28):
or just develop your voice for fun
my team and I are here to help
check the link in the description
to book your first session
or grab some of our other resources
Alrighty are you ready
let's get started a lot of times
the reason why people get into songwriting
in the first place
is because they wanna tell their own stories
or they wanna find a creative way of
expressing themselves
(01:49):
but then
they struggle with actually expressing themselves
and writing lyrics that mean something to them um
and to their audience then
of course as well
so to talk about how to actually write lyrics
that mean something to you
that you're proud of that you're like yes
I can't wait to share this with somebody
I've got our wonderful coach
Juliana in the studio here with me
hello the virtual studio
(02:11):
we are in the virtual studio hahaha hello
yeah yeah right
welcome to LA welcome to my home
welcome to my basement hahaha
um writing lyrics
oh my god I mean
I could go on and on and on and on
about how writing lyrics was always so hard for me
but like what is your relationship to lyric writing
(02:33):
yeah it's storytelling
you're you're an
an artist at this point you're like
connecting words and feelings
and transmitting them to people
so that they can understand
and storytelling has been around since we were cavemen
so it's not impossible you can literally do it
(02:54):
um so
I think it's just
understanding what your story is first
before we yes
try and oh OK
we're already getting into it
I love it we're you
Juliana's like girl
we ain't wasting time here
let's get right to it OK
let's do it let's do it
can you say that again
cause that was like wisdom right there
(03:17):
what I say um
okay so
haha shoot
I don't know what I said or how did I said it
but like
making sure that you know what your story is
that part before you put it into words
so understanding what you're saying
what you're feeling so that then you can put those yes
(03:41):
words 100% into the song
understanding your story before you put it into words
essentially um
I so agree with that and I think this is why
these devices right here are just hmm
like they're robbing us of good storytelling
like being able to write good stories
(04:03):
because we never just sit there
in our thoughts and in our feelings anymore
we are always distracting ourselves with our phones
like
you're waiting somewhere at a light to cross the street
it's 15 seconds maybe
what is everybody doing
they pull out their phones and look at memes or whatnot
right the news
(04:24):
whatever it is and because we are never bored
we're never alone with our thoughts
so many people we feel anxious right
we still have the feelings
they still feel heartbroken
they still feel happy they still feel anxious
they still feel sad a joyful whatever
insert emotion here we still feel things
but we can't put it into words
(04:45):
because we never take the time to actually figure out
why do we feel this way what made us feel this way
what is going on
and I think that's also why mental health is
on the decline
not to get too deep into that
but I do I do think that this is a big
(05:08):
big big reason why we're not writing lyrics that are
frankly meaningful to us right
yeah I agree
I think it's a lot of the time people are like well
I just like
don't know what to write about
I'm like okay
like what are
what are you going through
and sometimes students let me in to their little mind
(05:31):
and they open the doors and I'm like
oh thank you
sometimes they're like no
I'm like okay
I respect that I respect that
but at least be honest with yourself
like what are the thoughts like
sit with it it's uncomfortable sometimes
like
it's not fun to be with your own thoughts sometimes
and that's okay write them out
like I'm feeling like
(05:53):
a little bit of poop why
like what is the thing why
like
it's just a lot of just understanding your own brain
and people are very scared to do that
but especially if you wanna write songs
you gotta get in you gotta get in there
you gotta get messy you have to get your feet dirty
it's vulnerable it's very
very vulnerable and scary
(06:14):
like you said but the good news is
you don't have to share it with anyone
if you don't want to like
you can write a song
just for the sake of writing a song
and getting your thoughts and your feelings out it
you don't necessarily have to share it with anyone
I coach Bree from our team was on the podcast once
and I think it was an episode
(06:35):
where we were all in the studio
but anyways she said like
how amazing is it that these wonderful people
that have chosen to write songs
that they've also chosen to share them with us
like isn't that so amazing
and I was like that is so beautifully put haha
like thank you for choosing to share your thoughts
(06:55):
and your feelings and your emotions
and all of that right
so it's brave to do that but you don't have to do it
you can write a song
just for the sake of writing a song
and then decide what to do with it later
yeah that's okay
but so I think there are a couple like little
uh tools maybe uh
(07:15):
that you can
that you can use to make it not so overwhelming
to sit down and write down your thoughts uh
I think yeah
one of them is journaling
a lot of a lot of writers journal
I'm not gonna lie I'm a terrible journaler
I don't journal okay
thank you that makes me feel better
me too
oh that makes me feel so much better
because I'm like Laura
you're the only songwriter out there
who doesn't journal no
(07:36):
it's I
I don't know why like
same thing I'm like hmm
I rather just like
blurred them out out loud
and play and sing at the same time
just sitting with it I don't know
okay I
if you can do it yeah
I think it can be a helpful tool
to just get used to writing something right
getting something on a piece of paper without like
oh yeah
and this needs to be a verse
(07:57):
and this needs to be a chorus
and you know like
without those guidelines yeah
um so that's why I think journaling can be helpful
I just personally don't do it
sorry about that yeah
besides that my absolute absolute
absolute absolute favorite tool
when it comes to getting my thoughts out
(08:17):
on a piece of paper
so that I can write lyrics that make sense
that tell a story
and that actually means something to me
and that are gonna connect with my audience too
is topic writing and
I don't know Juliana
before we started working together
have you heard about topic writing before
or is that something that I made up
because I don't know if I made it up
(08:39):
or if I heard it somewhere
and then I just chose to claim it
I literally don't know no
it I have heard of it
maybe not with those words
but I I do
it's like yeah
subject writing it's like the theme writing
so it's like
describing what you're gonna be writing about
and we have yes
topic writing and object writing
(08:59):
so object writing is a lot more specific
so object writing could be um
rainy day so like
all of the phrases words
whatever that you can think of a rainy day
like cloudy
muggy nostalgic
sad blah blah blah
you could go there whatever
and maybe topic writing would be like um
(09:23):
a melancholic feeling of yes
missing someone or whatever
being heartbroken over something
and it just so happens that it's raining wow yes
we put those together and boom
you have a song yeah
I again
I don't know if I made up the term topic writing or not
but in case I did
it definitely was inspired by the term object writing
(09:45):
right
cause that was something that we did a lot at Berkeley
you have your experience with songwriting at Berkeley
too you did one of their courses as well right
sounds so so big
and I was like it's just a little yeah
but yeah they do teach you that Benatar yeah
was it Pat yes Pat
yes yes yes
what's his name haha
(10:05):
shout out to Pat shout out
um and so we were doing it
and we were doing it in class and as homework
and I would always struggle so much
to then take what I wrote in a topic writing exercise
into an actual song
because they made us write about like
uh huh water bottle
and like just random objects
(10:26):
and I'm like cool
cool cool cool
what does this have to do with my song
that I'm trying to write here
right so it's almost like the journaling thing right
like you're
you're journaling for the sake of journaling
not for the sake of writing a song
and object writing very much felt the same to me
and then
I just could not bridge the gap between object writing
or journaling or both
(10:48):
to then actually writing a song
so it was like instead of writing about a random object
yeah let's write about the actual topic of the song
and so I was like topic writing
that makes sense yeah
hahaha yeah
and it definitely allows
for feelings to come out a little quicker
(11:09):
and all that
I do recommend students object writing still
like I'm like
if you could do that every day
you will be so thankful because
what it teaches you
is to come up with descriptive words quicker
so how would you describe a water bottle
right so
it's using a little bit more vocabulary
than you're used to with topic writing
(11:31):
so if you use object writing within your topic writing
you're
you're winning
right cause
you're being more descriptive with your storytelling
it's not like it's a rainy day
yeah sad
like oh hahaha
sweet yeah
what else can we say about that right
it's like the rain is pouring down my window
(11:53):
and then I can hear whatever
like you could like
go in the movie take the people with you
right is what it comes down to
so it's a lot yeah
so I think those two together are magic
I love what you said for people
and I think
a lot of people
are scared to be specific in their songs
uh because they're like
well now it's not relatable anymore
(12:14):
like you don't just
just saying something about like
you know how like
a lot of girls
like wearing their boyfriend's hoodies and what not
like that is very relatable across whatever
but they don't wanna like really um
like be specific about what the hoodie is like
like what it smells like or what the color of it is
(12:36):
or the texture of it or whatever
because then they're like no
that's too specific then it's not relatable anymore
but the more specific you actually are
the more relatable it becomes
because the more oh
and this is a term I stole from uh
Friedemann Feindisen from holistic songwriting kopfkino
the more these people can see the story
play out in their heads kopfkino is a German term
(12:59):
and it literally means
like Head Cinema
Kopf is head Kino is cinema
so it's like
the story that you're seeing play out in your head
and the more specific you are
the more people can see the story
if you're vague they can't see it
and then they can't relate to it anymore
yeah it doesn't matter
if your specific story doesn't happen to someone
(13:22):
as is that writing will bring something to them like
oh that didn't happen to me
but this other thing happened to me
and now I'm thinking about that
I'm like oh wait
I wanna hear it again no
100% hear it again
the details don't all need to line up exactly
with the other person's experience
no yeah
oh yeah
but they can still relate
it's impossible they can still relate right
you can't do that yeah
(13:44):
like the amount of times like
I'm sure everyone seen this
like people are like
I just feel like this singer could be whoever
they're like writing they're reading my journals
they're like they're living my life
and it's not necessarily because they're writing
exactly their life but because you're being honest
and we all have very similar experiences
of course they happen in different ways
(14:04):
but just being honest with what that feels like
what a heartbreak feels like
like we all have felt that in some way
if you haven't I'm jealous
but it's important haha
like it's
we have to be able to be honest
with how those feelings feel
and love like all the happy stuff too
like sometimes that's harder to write about
cause you're like oh
(14:25):
I don't want to sound cheesy
I don't want to sound cliche
yes OK
find a cooler way to say it
so you would say harder to find a cooler way to say it
that's what you do object writing for
you know what yeah
why did they not explain it that way at Berkeley
then I feel like I would have understood
why we're doing this in the first place
maybe they did and I just wasn't paying attention
that's also very possible
(14:45):
yeah very possible
I'm not a good student
you'll never know but now we can do it
um okay I
that's it um
I like the the combination of the topic
writing and the object writing um
and like you said
writing happy songs is sometimes harder
(15:06):
than to write heartbreaking songs
or sad songs and and what not
and um
I also believe that happy songs can also be very
very meaningful they don't like
it doesn't have to be a sad song to be meaningful
oh yeah and this is
this is something that I always struggled with
cause I had a very happy childhood
(15:28):
I don't really have any trauma
Yay me
sorry to brag don't mean it that way
but um
I mean I
I do but that's besides the point
um I was always like okay
gotta make
make stuff up so that I can write meaningful songs
or that people would take me seriously as an artist
(15:50):
like I would I
you know
like when you're watching American Idol and what not
it's always the people with the worst stories
like life stories that would make it far in the show
and I'm like I'm never gonna be successful
cause I don't have any heartbreaking stories
my parents are still alive
no I know
and they're doing that on purpose
by the way like
we could talk about that another time
(16:12):
but yeah no
you don't have to have a very sad life
to write a beautiful song
like you know
of course like
when we're honest and those feelings come through
it's more authentic but
I mean I was just thinking like
happy songs and I thought like
a Thousand Years by Christina Perry
Christina Perry beautiful song
(16:33):
and it's cute and it's like
not cheesy it's like just being like
you know vulnerable
with letting someone know
that they would wait a thousand years to be with you
like it's so beautiful
like I could cry
so it's like
you could go all the way into the cheesiness
and then yes
make it sparkle like
(16:54):
make it I have a very
you know a very cheesy song that I wrote for my husband
before we got married and I was like
maybe I'll sing this at my wedding
and then
I decided to sing a different song at my wedding
that I also wrote
but I recently got it out of the vault again because
you know we were about to do songwriting
like on our podcast and at our studio in general
(17:17):
for a whole month and I was like alright
well let me see if I can find some of my old songs
that I wrote and I found one
and it's called um
all yours I was like
well that's
that's not a good title but whatever
it is what it is again
I wrote the song before we got married so
oh my gosh
at least eight years ago and
(17:38):
at the chorus is my ears have nothing
to say is I'm all yours right
so the chorus is like it's so cheesy
but it's cute it's kind of cute
(17:59):
it works together with the
with the um with the verses
cause the verses are like super specific
right like
I love when the sun shines through the blinds
on my still sleeping face
I love the sound of birds singing with Grace
or something like that
and then I love when you come kiss my lips
(18:19):
though you're not quite awake
like that kind of like
just like descriptive things and things that I love
painting the picture yeah exactly exactly
and then the cheesy chorus
and I don't like sure
there's probably things that I could do
to make it a little bit less cheesy
but it feels right to me and I was like okay
well we're just gonna keep it that way
(18:40):
and it's so funny because I got a um
a message from somebody on Instagram
cause I shared that song to my Instagram stories
and then the next day she
she replied and she was like
I just wanted to tell you that
when I heard your song yesterday
I was like another ballad
like it's just another ballad right
there's nothing special about it
it's just another ballad
(19:01):
and now today I keep singing your song
so it's actually a really good song hahaha
and I was like alright here there
there you go there you go
and I have this
a feeling with a lot of songs that I hear
the first time I hear a song
I'm like why is everybody so obsessed with the song
it's not that good
and then I hear it again and I was like
and then every time I hear it again
(19:22):
I'm like Anna
this is actually a really good song
this is a banger
haha
um yep
yep yep
it happens we always resist the mainstream
I love it but it's mainstream for a reason
I'm a pop girly through and through
me too I love
same give me all the pop girlies
I'm like I
I eat them up Sabrina Chopper
(19:43):
Ariana just mmm hmm
I love that that's so cute
um I
I have one more question for you
when it comes to writing lyrics that are meaningful
can you write meaningful lyrics to you
even if the stuff that you're writing about
is not out of a page from your own book
(20:06):
like your own life absolutely absolutely
I started writing when I was very
very young like
actually writing not the silly songs I wrote um
when I was like about 11 12
I hadn't had a boyfriend yet
I hadn't been kissed
and I was writing the saddest breakup songs
so yeah
I think you can as long as you got an imagination
(20:28):
and you put it to work
and you create your own little movie
cause my god the
the amount of things I made up in my head about people
oh yeah
I didn't know but then I would like
play it in my head you know
just to be rude with my boyfriend or something
I love it
around 13 years old you know
(20:49):
I was gonna be your Harry Styles
so you can make sure you can make stuff up
you can make stuff up as much as you can in your head
and as long as you feel it
cause I wanted that to happen
so I made it happen in my
in my songs you know
so it could be whatever
it doesn't have to be that specific
but yeah it doesn't have to be real
(21:12):
you can make it up there's a really cool um
interview with one of my face Taylor Swift
and I know everyone else loves Taylor Swift
so I'm gonna share it I'm not sure where it was
I think it's her documentary on folklore
she wrote a full album on stories that were in her own
(21:33):
and no one would know that'cause like
they feel so real and like
some of them are real people
but they're not like her stories
um I think it's folklore
if not everyone
don't come at me I'm so sorry
but it's either of the two
or maybe both of them but yeah
she speaks about like all my life
I wrote about things that only happened to me
and then I wanted as challenge
(21:55):
it was a pandemic right
so like she was like OK
let me write a whole album
of things that haven't happened to me
but to someone else and the amount of success that
you know those albums got
so yeah
I made up a lot of stories about you
like a lot of toxic relationship stuff but I'm like
if somebody was toxic in that relationship
it was probably me
(22:16):
right like
no like again
nothing bad has ever happened to me
no that's not true
but you know
like I would
I would make up these these things too and
and the song can still mean something to you
even if it's not real for sure
anything else that we need to talk about
when it comes to writing lyrics that are meaningful
(22:36):
no just like
be honest be honest with yourself first
so that then can you know
you can be authentic
and people can feel that authenticity
cause if we're being vague
you're not gonna capture people's attention
it might be a pretty melody
but that might be all that is for sure
and we want we want the full experience
we want a story we want a good melody
(22:58):
we want a good song all of them yes
so yes
be honest with us thank you Juliana
for sharing all of your thoughts around songwriting
or lyric writing and more specifically
I Learned a little something too
especially about object writing
and that you use that to make your songs more a clever
right right
(23:19):
like you're using more
different words to explain the same thing
or to express the same thing
but you're not using everyday words
yeah exactly
so that's a big takeaway from you for today
so thank you for sharing that
uh we created a little PDF guide
called Songwriting Framework
um that's gonna help you write your first complete song
(23:40):
your first awesome song
your first song that you really like
there is a whole part on lyric writing in there
um my four step lyric writing formula is in there
um how to write some more clever lyrics is in there
as well so if you wanna go ahead and check that out
it's currently on sale for just $7 instead of $27
the link is in the description below
(24:01):
and also we are hosting
Juliana and I are hosting a live class called
how to write songs you'll actually like
and guess what lyrics is a part of that too hahaha
um if you want to come and join us in this live class
it's happening on October 14th at six PM Eastern time
that's a Tuesday it's free to attend
(24:23):
if you can't attend live
and you still wanna make sure you're not missing out
uh you can upgrade to a VIP ticket
it comes with a bunch of other perks too
for example that songwriting framework
you can get it as a bonus when you get the VIP ticket
and the VIP ticket is only $17
and there's other bonuses in there too
so if you wanna get the songwriting framework PDF
(24:46):
I would just recommend getting the VIP ticket for
the class because it's included in there
plus a bunch of other other stuff as well
but anyways links below
check it out uh
thank you Juliana
for joining
we have some more songwriting stuff to discuss uh
but for that we'll see you in the next episode bye yes
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