What Singers Miss When They Play It Safe With Perenna King

I get it, singing is a very vulnerable thing, so naturally we want to hold back - especially when there’s a chance that other people could hear us. But guess what? What happens when you let it all out is complete magic and is probably that special something you feel like is missing in your voice right now.

Perenna King - one of our students here at VoxTape Studios - joined us to explore what it takes to move past fear and sing with your full voice—emotionally and physically. We talked about overthinking, tension, performance pressure, and how to build a voice that feels undeniably you.

If you’ve ever been afraid to get loud, go raw, or take up space, this conversation and short coaching session just might be what you need.

📍Mentioned Resource: follow @perennakingmusic and stream her original music here: https://www.perennaking.com/music

👉 Want to make practicing easier? Grab our FREE warm up track here: https://lessons.voxtapestudios.com/free-warm-up-track

👉 Want to know exactly what your voice needs to improve? Get a vocal evaluation from our professional coaches here: https://lessons.voxtapestudios.com/vocal-evaluation

👉 Book a 1:1 session with Coach Lara: https://lessons.voxtapestudios.com/trial-lesson

🔔 Subscribe & follow for new episodes every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I always feel a little like

(00:01):
discouraged when it comes to competitions okay
I'm not sure why
I feel like maybe it's because I know what I
what I want my song to be
I know the visuals that I want to go with it
I know I know everything about it yeah
and I feel like if I filter that song into other areas
I feel like the song's gonna get watered down
and my vision's gonna get lost

(00:22):
fair enough yeah
I submitted my songs for a couple songwriting contests
like the American Song Contest
and the John Lennon Songwriting Contest
two of my songs did really well
one even one in the category pop
which is like like the John Lennon Songwriting Contest
in the category pop
which is like apparently a big deal yeah
I didn't know that oh my god

(00:42):
good job I was just told to submit and I was like okay
sure it was like a 30 buck like entry fee or yeah
like 30 50 bucks something like that
and it opened a couple doors
like
I got people reaching out to me to play at festivals
because I won that contest with my song
I think it was the American Song Contest
or something like that
where they gave me like a whole page of

(01:05):
that's nice of feedback and they were like
this was all amazing and then your chorus
and I was like what was wrong with my chorus
yeah yeah
yeah
and that's like another fine line that I try to walk
because I I don't like other people touching my songs
cause I don't like them to turn into something else
but then you also have to take criticism
uh huh
I'm not
naive enough to think that every song that I write is

(01:26):
like perfect all the way through
beginning to end just because I like it
doesn't mean that it's necessarily good
hey Vox Star and welcome to from singer to artist
I'm Lara Chapman award winning singer and songwriter
turned viral vocal coach and the host of this show

(01:49):
at VoxTape Studios
we help singers from all over the world
level up their voices
by teaching them the three fundamental skills
all singers need technique
awareness and artistry whether you're looking to go pro
or just develop your voice for fun
my team and I are here to help
check the link in the description
to book your first session
or grab some of our other resources

(02:09):
Alrighty are you ready
let's get started we are back in New York City
with a wonderful student of ours
welcome Perenna King hi
thank you so much for being here
thank you so much for having me
I'm so excited of course
of course
you are one of the coolest people I have ever met
you really are like so nice
no truly like your art is incredible

(02:32):
like thank you
I have no idea how you can get like all of this
you know like that Lady Gaga's like early Lady Gaga
when it's like
meat dress and crazy makeup and crazy hair
and yeah not that you have a meat dress
but like you're going full out with what you do
and I find that so inspirational

(02:53):
thank you so before we get into more of like
you know your image and
and all of that stuff
let's maybe talk about who you even are okay
that's a good start that yes
so that everybody can get to
get to know you and
you know your music
what you're all about
cause you are not just a singer but also a songwriter

(03:15):
you have a degree in English
I have a couple degrees so yeah
you tell us yeah
tell us tell us weird
who's Corinna King a weird path
um so I'm originally from Iowa
yeah Midwest
uh and when I was 19
I dropped out of college and I moved here to New York
and I did an internship at a record label for a year

(03:38):
oh um
at the time internships were not paid
so I lasted about a year and then I was like
I have nothing left no money
um so I went back to the Midwest
I went to school for four years
I got a couple degrees
one in English and one in American Indian Studies
yes uh
and then the second I was done with school
I was like I'm going back to New York

(03:59):
I gotta go back cause I just love it here so much
and I knew I wanted to write
I've been writing since I was very little
um
I was always told that I was a good writer
and that's something that has really stuck with me
and encouraged me so I knew that I wanted to be here
and I knew I wanted to write music
and that's what I'm doing now
yes she's crazy

(04:20):
sure are cause you're releasing music right now too
I believe you told me that 2025 is kind of
like that year where you're
where you just wanna release a lot of music
yes yeah
I'm releasing uh
three maybe four singles okay
uh and then I have my EP that's coming out in September
okay so it's all coming together

(04:40):
yes it sure is
I'm so excited I know
me too every time I see you post on your Instagram
about the new songs and
you know you're asking people to participate as well
like help me pick the cover art
yep and I love how you
how you you know
get your community involved in the process
I'm sure they really appreciate it
you have a patron I have a patron I stream on Twitch

(05:05):
who got you into Twitch streaming
you did you honestly
you got me into Twitch you got me into my patron
I getting my community involved is not
honestly something that comes really naturally to me um
you know when you had to do group projects in school
I hated being in group projects
I just wanted to do it by myself and just get it done

(05:25):
um so it what
it didn't come naturally to me to ask people to like
vote on cover art or like makeup looks or whatever
and then when I started working with you
however many years ago
and you brought up like you need a website
you need to stream on Twitch
you need to be on Patreon
like you need like you can release music
but if nobody is there to listen to it
like who cares like nobody is gonna care um

(05:48):
so you're you are a huge reason of why I started
community outreach I would say well
I'm just really excited to see that you stuck with it
cause when we initially met
this was I don't know 22 yeah
like probably 20 22
23 yeah yeah
a couple years ago right
and we worked together for a couple of months uh

(06:11):
not necessarily like voice things you
you did some voice lessons with us too
but it was more you know
like the whole branding and like yep
all of that stuff yep
um and
and then we parted ways for 2
3 years and now you're back for singing stuff
you're working with Coach Emily currently
yes I love her yes

(06:31):
she's so wonderful I love her so much yes
she really is yeah
I'm so glad to have her on the team yeah
um unfortunately she's not here today
I know I missed her by a day
I know she's here tomorrow
I'm like no no
that's okay I'll meet her at some point
she's not too far away she is really close
she's down in Philly so
you know we'll make it happen one way or another haha
yeah sooner or later

(06:51):
and uh
but you know it's
it's just really exciting for me to see that you
that you didn't just take the advice
and you did it for the assignment
and then like yeah
whatever the program's done now
like whatever you stuck with it
you're still streaming on Twitch to this day
you still have your Patreon
you're still releasing music

(07:13):
you're still you know
getting people to vote on stuff and yep
and all of that so
that just makes me really happy to see that
you're still doing it yeah
and that you're seeing success with it
because at this point
you've been doing it for long enough
that if it wasn't worth it
you probably wouldn't be right
that's what I was gonna say is like
if it if I did it for the assignment
and it didn't feel like it was working
I would have just done it for the assignment

(07:34):
and I probably would have stopped um
but it's
it's working and it continuously works and it's hard um
because it doesn't come naturally to me
and because it's like a lot of extra work
you know to like
to get your community involved and to do
it's not just like posting on Instagram or like
I post a TikTok and then like

(07:54):
I get to peace out yep yeah
um it's a bunch of different platforms
in a bunch of different social media
and it's coming up with content which I
hate doing yeah
I hate I hate content planning
yeah but you also brought up years ago
the idea of a content calendar

(08:16):
and that is like I still have it to this day
I follow it like really
yes like when there's a release
I follow that
I follow the single release plan that you typed up
for me every time I have a song that comes out
I pull up the single release plan and I'm like OK
check and check and check
and I go through all the stuff that you gave me
cause it still works oh
I'm so glad to hear that cause
you know the world is changing fast

(08:37):
yeah so I'm glad to see that that still works
yeah and yeah
you're you're killing it
I'm so proud of you thank you
oh my God and um
but you what you just said to me
before we started rolling cameras was
you feel like you are a songwriter and a writer first
and not necessarily like a singer

(08:58):
and this is the one thing where you're like
ah this yes
scares me and when
you know when you came back to us a couple months ago
um and you just released a song at that point
or we're about to release a song
and I heard the demo or something
yep yep
I heard it and I was like
you sound awesome but you're playing it so safe

(09:19):
I know that's my biggest issue
yeah um
that has always been my biggest issue OK
that is still currently my biggest issue
um that and tongue tension
ask Emily haha
that's like all we work on is tongue tension
um yes
but that is my biggest issue hurdle uh

(09:39):
which is kind of surprising cause in
in high school I did theater um
my family is very theatrical
my sister's on Broadway like we're yes
we're very theatrical people um
so it's not hard for me to get into a character
but when it comes to singing
it is really hard for me uh
I'm not entirely sure why yet

(10:02):
do you think
it maybe has something to do with your sister
being on Broadway
I think that maybe
maybe a little bit you know
the the feeling of like
like obviously not like
you know not necessarily like jealousy or
you know feeling less than
but it's still like oh my gosh
you know
like she's on the biggest theater stage in this world

(10:25):
yeah at least in the US right
um and seeing a lot of success with that
and you're seeing success in your way too
which is different from being on Broadway
yeah right
yeah but you know
she's like a singer and actress
and you feel more like a writer
and maybe there's I don't know
you know like friendly competition

(10:46):
yeah yeah
not really I don't really know how to express it
no I think you're probably right
I think there is an aspect of like
she is a singer and that is what she does
and she has told me before
she would not be able to write a song to save her life
yeah so like she is a singer
that is what she's known for
yeah and I'm not so much that

(11:06):
I'm more known for writing
and I'm also very cognizant of not falling into like
a musical theater trap so when I
when I developed a character of Prena King
or if I'm developing a character for a song
I don't want it to come across as too musical theater
cause that's what I'm trained in okay
so Emily and I have been working on that too

(11:26):
about like
trying to find this character and trying to like
have this vulnerability in the song without it seeming
like cartoonish
yeah like musical theater character yeah
you know what I mean yeah
totally so it's a hard line to walk okay yeah
now that makes sense and it also makes
sense that you feel like you're a writer first
coming from uh

(11:48):
English back like studying English in
in college you know
having that background probably reading a lot of books
haha lots of books
you have a book club too right
I have a book club yes
we have a book club
that was like the first thing I thought of
I was like if other people want to read with me
that's exactly what I'm doing yeah
yes um yeah

(12:09):
I heard Taylor Swift said years ago
I heard her in an interview
say that if she wasn't a songwriter
she wouldn't be a singer hmm
and that's exactly how I feel
that if I didn't write songs
I wouldn't sing yeah
um
I don't have a passion for like
I must I must sing

(12:31):
like I must it doesn't matter what it is
any song any genre
I have to sing I don't really have that okay
mine is like I must write
you have to write I have to write okay
and the idea of
of giving my songs to somebody else to sing is like
heartbreaking okay
tell me more about that um

(12:53):
cause they're like my babies
oh and I spend so much time with them and
and they're I don't want to say they're personal
because there are sometimes that
I write songs that have nothing to do with me
or my life
but I just feel so like closely connected to my writing

(13:15):
that I feel like if somebody else saying it
they would do it wrong okay
do you know what I mean yeah
yeah
it goes back to that whole like group project thing
we're like
I don't want anybody else to do the group work
because they're gonna do it wrong
no I totally get it
I'm seeing this in my business
I'm having such a hard time delegating and letting
other people do certain things
like even editing this podcast
I'm like oh
you're not gonna do it right

(13:35):
I'm gonna do it myself yeah
you're gonna cut something else that I really
really wanted in there yeah
yes yeah
so I I feel like that all the time
there are some songs that I write that I'm like
you know I'd be fine selling this song
I'm
if it's like a country song
or like a genre that I don't normally sing yeah
I'm like okay
that's fine um
but a majority of the time I

(13:57):
I can't I can't get rid of them okay
so now you feel like you have to sing it
so singing is like
I need to work on this cause I wanna deliver a great
yeah um
product right
a great vocal performance
but it's kind of like a
a necessity yes
not like something that you really wanna do

(14:19):
yeah it's not that you don't wanna do it
but yeah I mean
when I get to sing my own songs
whether it's on stage
which is something that I just did
for the first time ever wait
did you did you finally do it
I finally did
that was one of your goals for these four months
working with Emily I did it
you did it tell me more
yes so I

(14:40):
I signed up for um
the New York songwriting collective has an open mic
at the Bitter End at the end of every month
and I've been to it before
and I've seen it before and like
watched and always been like
I just need to get up there and do it
like it's an iconic venue
yes
the people are really supportive and like super nice
so I signed up for the one at the end of April

(15:01):
and for like that entire month
for that whole month I was like
I'm rehearsing my song what if I forget the lyrics
I'm terrified so nervous
and then I got up there and I did it and I was like oh
it's not so bad right
it's not so bad yeah
it's not so a
it's not so bad and B
it's kind of fun yes
yeah so I did that at the end of April

(15:23):
and then the the gentleman who puts it on
his name is Peter
he emailed me a couple days later and said
we're doing another one with the Songwriting Collective
and the Songwriting Guild of America
we're doing it on the 9th
and I want you to come back and do it again
and I said okay Peter
so I'm going again on June 9th to do it
oh my god again

(15:43):
I know that was like one of my big goals was to sing
cause I had never sung one of my songs live
yeah for an audience in the studio
I have yeah
but that's completely different
um so I'd never done that before and I really wanted to
and I did it and it was like
not so bad oh my God
I'm so glad to hear that and honestly
this is such a typical reaction
you build it up in your head

(16:05):
like to be this like big scary thing
and what if right
what if I forget the lyrics
what if I crack what if
you know whatever
yep bad
insert bad thing here yep
and then you do it and it's like
oh my God this is not so bad
and even you have it's fun and you enjoy yourself too
and the more you do it the easier it gets too right

(16:25):
so I'm so glad to hear that
I know I was happy that I did it
I feel like I kind of blacked out a little bit up there
yeah because everyone's like
how was it how did it go
and I'm like I think it went well
like I don't I don't remember anything bad happening
so and I remember having fun
so I'm assuming that
that means that everything went just fine
that's great um yeah
so it was it was cool

(16:47):
to be able to say that I sang one of my own songs
and I sang it at such an iconic venue was really cool
and the community is super nice
and everyone was really supportive
um and I love hearing other songwriters
I love going to open mics and hearing original music
I think it's so fun
songwriter rounds are one of my favorite things
yeah when I was playing too
way back when I was still making music um

(17:09):
I I loved doing songwriter rounds
because everybody is so supportive
and that's like
one thing we have to remind ourselves of as like
singers and performers
like if we perform live in front of an audience
they want you to do well yup
they are not coming to watch you mess up
and hope that you mess up right
yup they want you to do well

(17:30):
and so just remembering that
I think sometimes also be helpful
yeah that was a huge
somebody in one of my college courses
one teacher said that one time
like everybody in this classroom wants you to do well
and that really stuck with me
and I thought about that a lot
the month leading up to that
I was like
everybody there just wants you to do well and have fun

(17:51):
yeah like nobody wants you to fall on your face
yeah so that helps a lot for me
um
if I ever had to sing in front of like
judges or like
industry people who maybe don't want me to do well
then like that's a different story
but everybody there everyone was a songwriter
everyone was a singer everybody was
was lovely yeah

(18:12):
yeah well
you know if you're in a
a competition setting versus a performance setting
exactly it's so different
and also
like vocally what's being asked of you is so different
yep but
you know
you see a lot of these talent shows and what not
and people go through them and win
or second and third and what not
and yeah five months later

(18:33):
we have no idea who they are anymore
I know there's obviously exceptions
you know but few though
very few very few
very few yeah
I don't think
I'd ever be able to do something like that
especially because it doesn't
I don't feel like those really lend a lot of space to
originality when it comes to hmm songs
isn't there a songwriting competition now too

(18:55):
I think there is Songland or what is it called
song something there
I know there at least was like a couple years ago okay
I remember hearing about it
maybe it's not a thing anymore
I don't know but I remember hearing about it
I was like oh
this is kind of cool yeah
I don't know if it's still a thing
it's I mean
that's a cool concept I would do it okay
well let's Google it hey
we'll sign you up anybody out there has any hook up

(19:18):
I'll send you a link yeah
I would do that yeah
way before I do a singing competition
I would do that
have you submitted your songs for like
songwriting competitions a couple
yeah there's another one there was a songwriting
uh I guess
like retreat
kind of thing that happened at the end of April

(19:39):
that I got selected to do
you had to submit a song cool
um submitted it
got selected didn't end up going
hmm very expensive hmm um
but I have here and there
I always feel a little like
discouraged when it comes to competitions okay
I'm not sure why
I feel like maybe it's because I know what I want

(20:02):
I know like what I want my song to be
I know the visuals that I want to go with it
I know I know everything about it
yeah
and I feel like if I filter that song into other areas
I feel like the song's gonna get watered down
and my vision's gonna get lost
do you know what I mean yeah
I know I see that yeah
um
and that just comes back to like

(20:23):
really holding my songs close to me and yeah
not letting a lot of people touch them
yeah um
because I'm afraid that it'll
that it'll turn into something that I
don't want it to be
so I would rather write a song and have nobody hear it
then write a song and have it become something
that it's not supposed to be

(20:43):
that's not supposed to be yeah okay
fair enough yeah
uh cause when I was
when I was releasing music and
you know writing my own stuff and all that
I submitted my songs for a couple songwriting contests
like the American Song Contest
and the John Lennon Songwriting Contest
and uh
some like two of my songs did really well
one even one in the category pop

(21:06):
which is like like the John Lennon Songwriting Contest
in the category pop which is like apparently a big deal
yeah I didn't know that
oh my god good job
I was just told to submit and I was like okay sure
it was like a 30 buck like entry fee or yeah
like 30 50 bucks
something like that so
you know I submitted and I paid the entrance fee and
and then they were like there were a couple rounds

(21:26):
but eventually they were like
you won and then they sent me guitars and like
they sent me like $5,000 worth of equipment
and I was like oh my god
and it opened a couple doors
like
I got people reaching out to me to play at festivals
because I won that contest with my song right
so right

(21:46):
uh I didn't write the song for the competition
I wrote the song
love the song and was told to submit it yeah
I was like okay alright
not by the people from the competitions
but you know from people in the music industry
they were like yeah
like you should submit your songs to these things
because you never know yeah
why not and yeah
and it cost like I said again 30
50 bucks something like that and I was like
yeah sure
whatever and if you submit to like five

(22:08):
five of those contests
and maybe one or two songs like do well like yeah
why not so yeah
and even if they don't make it super far
you never know like who's gonna hear it exactly
you know
who's on the board or who's on the jury or who's
wherever yeah
that could hear the song and think like
even if they give you feedback
they do actually yeah
so not all of them do but um

(22:31):
I think it was the American Song Contest
or something like that
where they gave me like a whole page of
that's nice of feedback and they were like
this was all amazing and then your course
and I was like what was wrong with my course
yeah yeah
yeah
and that's like another fine line that I try to walk
because I don't
I don't like other people touching my songs

(22:52):
cause I don't like them to turn into something else
but then you also have to take criticism
mm hmm um
I'm not
naive enough to think that every song that I write is
like perfect all the way through
beginning to end just because I like it
doesn't mean that it's necessarily good
um so I have to
I have been learning to walk kind of that fine line of
like keeping my vision

(23:14):
and keeping the song what I want it to be
and still taking criticism and tweaking the chorus
or changing a lyric even though I really like it
and I don't want to change it
but changing it because like
I understand that
there are people out there that know better than I do
but then on the other side
especially in the studio
there are times that I know better than other people

(23:34):
cause it's my song yeah
yeah so
I love taking advice from my producer and my co writer
I love hearing what they have to say
but if there's something that's like
really sticking in my brain
I'm not afraid to say like
that's good I think that's really good
that you stand up for yourself
and for your vision and for your ideas
if you really believe in it

(23:55):
mm hmm um
cause at the end of the day
if you don't present something that you fully love
your audience is gonna smell the BS yep
you know yep yeah
it's just like writing a paper in school
everything always goes back to my English degree
it's like writing a paper in school
like if you don't believe in what you're writing

(24:16):
yeah teachers can smell the BS
yeah yeah yeah
and well now with AI with it right now
oh my God I know
I know it's all GPT
it's crazy hahaha
it's wild but you are
you know like with your songwriting I
I see how like
you're holding it very near and dear to your heart
and you're like
I don't really like a little bit of input is fine
but not too much yep hahaha yep

(24:36):
but with your singing it seems to be different
oh my God give me all the advice
give me all the feedback all the criticism
all the advice on singing
I
I can do it I can sing
I know you can um
you can sing really well actually
I can get by
but I didn't go to school for it

(24:58):
I'm not like I I did it in high school
I did choir
and musical theater and stuff in high school
but I'm not like trained in it
I don't know anything about the structure of the voice
or like
air flow I don't know anything about it yeah
um so when it comes to singing
I want all the advice yeah
yeah yeah

(25:19):
for sure so
what have you been mostly working on with Emily
in your lessons you mentioned tongue tension
oh my God a lot of tongue tension
jaw tension which is
the catalyst to a lot of other issues that I didn't
realize so that's the thing right
like it's like okay
we wanna
we don't necessarily when we enroll in voice lessons
we don't think about I wanna you know

(25:39):
release jaw tension or tongue tension and what not yep
so like why do we work on these things
what's the result that we're gonna get from that
so why are you working on it
I entered voice lessons primarily because I was like
I I can't ever really get into the groove of a song
I can't ever really like find that character OK
I can't ever really like
expose that vulnerability and really just let go

(26:01):
like you said in the beginning
like it's really hard for me to just let go
and I found that a lot of that has to do with like
physical tension that like
I'm I am physically
holding tension in other parts of my body
my shoulders
my neck my tongue my jaw that like once I release them

(26:22):
I don't have to think so much about like singing
am I hitting the note like am I gonna get there
I don't have to think so much about it
so then I can think about other things like
how do I want this word to sound
or like what volume do I want to do this at
like yeah things that make the song the song yeah
well the interesting thing is what
which came first did the mental

(26:43):
I call it mental tension did the mental tension like
you know the
the fear almost a little bit come first
or the physical tension or maybe a little column
a little column B right
maybe a little bit of both yeah
I would say probably the mental tension okay
um
is a large majority of it
and it manifested in physical tension that I didn't

(27:04):
yeah understand
cause I didn't have I don't have the training for it
yeah so I
I guess I didn't know that I had tongue and jaw tension
but I knew something wasn't right
and I knew that it
sometimes it hurt or sometimes it would strain
or sometimes
like I knew singing wasn't supposed to feel like that
but I had no idea why um
so yeah we've done a lot of

(27:25):
oh yeah hahaha
lots of that yup
I try under the chin yup
I try and do it like for 3 minutes every day
I still try and like massage under my chin
you're such a good student
I love it hahaha
thank you I'm a forever learner
I love to learn um
so lots of that a lot of tongue twirls
which I am so bad at hmm

(27:46):
I like a
or like hmm OK
yeah it takes me a solid 5 minutes to get there
every single lesson yeah
I can't do it um
so lots of lots of that
and she's I mean Emily's amazing
she's she just like makes it make sense to me
that's great yeah
I'm so glad to hear that yeah
she's very very knowledgeable

(28:06):
she is usually when I have singing questions
I text Emily and be like hey yep
yeah regardless of what I say
she'll always be like that makes sense because a
B C
d E
and she'll like tell me why
and it's nice to know the reason
isn't it yep
like I truly believe that
if you know why you're doing something
or why something worked
and you can start making these connections

(28:27):
it's gonna be so much easier for you to
make these adjustments yourself
even post voice lessons cause uh
coach Emily when
when she was here recording a couple months ago with me
um she actually said this
like as voice teachers
just like therapists too
like it is our job to work ourselves out of a job

(28:47):
hmm so that you don't need us anymore
yeah right
and obviously it's very nice to be needed haha
right and we wanna help you
and there's always more to learn
like I've been taking voice lessons for 15 years
and I'm still taking voice lessons right
but it's good to get to the level where you can
understand your own instrument
and you know what's happening

(29:09):
and you have the tools
that you need to start making adjustments
to get to the results that you
that you want so
that you're not relying on a vocal coach to tell you
this is what happened
and this is what we need to do to solve this issue
yeah right yeah
having that kind of checklist that I can go through
and be like okay
this doesn't feel right or this doesn't sound right

(29:31):
is it tongue tension is it too much air
is it not enough air
is it like not breathing from my lower ABS
is it like it's nice to have all of those things
yeah and the more that I work with her
and the more I do voice lessons
the shorter the list gets depending on the problem ooh
I love that so if something doesn't feel right
I can be like OK
I know it's not the air I know it's
it's jaw tension or it's tongue tension

(29:52):
yeah um
and that just makes singing a lot more enjoyable good
you know okay
we're just gonna make a singer out of you
I know I know you are
I know I'm excited though
hahaha it needs to happen
so I'm glad that
that Emily's the one that I'm working with
especially cause she's she's just great
yeah we love her so much well
and I do believe that things really start opening up

(30:15):
like vocally for you
when you actually look at yourself as a singer
and not like
I'm a songwriter and I have to learn to sings
because I don't wanna give my
babies to somebody else yep right
like if you're like no
I'm a songwriter but I'm also a singer yeah
then I feel like your voice is just gonna open up
so much more uh huh

(30:37):
and um
I'm I'm just really excited for
for you to really step outside of your comfort zone
and start doing things that scare you in your songs
vocally yeah
right like yeah
really just go for it and go higher and beltier
and whatever it is that you wanna do

(30:58):
it doesn't always need to be higher and beltier
it can also be whatever right right
it doesn't matter
but just really getting out of your comfort zone
you very much remind me of our student Billy
who is you know
her music is a little bit more rock
a little bit less pop I know her
you know Billy well
I don't know her personally
but I follow her cause I'm like
her journey is so amazing yes
yes very much so

(31:19):
she's so inspiring I love her oh
she's so great and she is the hardest working girl
I have ever met in my life
she's amazing yeah
and uh
she got signed to a record label now almost a year ago
and she's working you know
with these pro people in LA
and they've really been pushing her vocally right
not just songwriting and Musically and all that

(31:40):
but also vocally yeah
and now the songs that she's sending me
she just sent me the whole album that they wrote
and it's all done and I'm like
it is so good
and the first thing that I told her was like
heck yeah
you're finally singing like you're meant to sing
that's amazing and it's
it's so cool to see that

(32:01):
and I know you are like this close to doing the same
no really
cause like it already sounds great right
it's not like it's not good
like you already sound great
yeah
but I know it could be like that much where it's like
yeah now it's fucking great
you know yeah
like the technicality of it

(32:22):
it's like yeah
technically that's good yes
um but as far as like making you really feel something
yeah it's
you're just holding back a little
really am right
that's that's literally the only
that's the only thing
you're hitting all the right notes and you sound great
and you know
the technique is there and blah blah
blah blah blah
all of that now it's just like sing it like you mean it

(32:43):
baby and I think a lot of it is um
I feel like I a have imposter syndrome
I think
because I had told myself for a really long time
that I'm a songwriter before a singer
that imposter syndrome kind of prevents me from like
really getting over that hump
yeah and like really

(33:05):
being able to embarrass myself
like being okay with embarrassing myself
cause I'm okay embarrassing myself in my songwriting
like if I like I write terrible stuff sometimes
like a lot of the stuff I write is just terrible
and that's fine even if people see it
like I don't really care that much
but for some reason
like if I sing something wrong or if I

(33:25):
if I go too far with it and people are like
that's way too dramatic like that's too
that is so interesting that that scares me a lot more
for some reason hmm
I could see how like
people sometimes would feel like that if
you know if they play piano and they sing
and it's easier for them to mess up on the piano
than with their voice because
you know the piano is separate from you yeah

(33:46):
it's not a part of you but with songwriting
it's like you wrote it and it's a part of you
even if it's not your story
like the something you said earlier where it's like
you know it's still my baby even if it's not my story
yep even if you made the story up
or it's somebody else's story or whatever
it's still like it still came from you
it's still your words your melodies and all that
so I'm like I wonder where that comes from and it

(34:08):
it must just be imposter syndrome
and you not really looking at yourself as a singer
so yeah I think what we need to do is have like
a little sticky note or something
put that on your mirror and write down like
I am a singer I am a singer and just say that
I need to have daily affirmations with it yeah

(34:28):
yeah yeah
and even like even if I said it right now in my head
I'd be like no
you're not you're not like really a singer no
but you are I know
I know I need to just start telling myself that
and and I think voice lessons have helped a lot
because prior to doing voice lessons every week
I would sing

(34:49):
maybe if I was like in the car or like in the shower
but I wasn't really singing like regularly yeah
and you don't necessarily have to
to be considered a singer
but like in my brain that's where I have to be
I have to be able to sing regularly
for me to think that I'm a singer
and so doing voice lessons

(35:09):
it's helped a lot good with that good yeah
I'm I'm very glad to hear that
and it's just gonna get better and the more you do it
the more the easier everything gets
and the more you can actually also look at yourself as
like truly like a singer yeah
and I think we should prove to everybody
and prove to yourself that you are a singer
oh my God cause you can sing girl
you can sing do we want to do a little singing

(35:29):
we can do a little singing yes
we can do a little singing yes
do you want to do a quick little call and response
warm up or do you want to go straight into it
that's totally up to you whatever you want to
just don't make me do tongue drills cause I can't do'em
I can't do it hate'em
can't do it I'm gonna torture you no
no no
no no
well let's just get right into it okay

(36:47):
oh okay
thank you thank you okay
thank you very much Coach Kate is clapping too
thank you thank you
thank you Coach Kate
thank you that was great
okay how did it feel
um besides scary
I see you shaking I felt a little scary
I felt a little scary uh
it felt like I was holding back
it sounded very pretty yeah

(37:07):
it sounded very pretty and usually people would be like
like singers
like people that are learning to sing and like
what's wrong with sounding pretty
I'm trying to sound pretty right
it's like yeah
yeah yeah
um but no
no no
that's too pretty it's too
it's for the style that we're going for
uh huh I think we can add just more stank

(37:29):
I don't know how to add stank
yes you do
how do I add stank just channel your inner badass
cause you got it you totally got it
can you imitate Santa Claus for me
ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho yes yes
so a little bit more of that kind of voice
like that instead of Black Veil

(37:52):
a little more the Ho Ho Black Velvet
it's yeah
it's shoutier uh huh
but you can totally go for that in this
in this style right
yeah
maybe not if you're singing a musical theater piece
but we're not trying to do musical theater
yeah right
that's what it always comes back to exactly

(38:12):
just fall back into that training
yeah yeah yeah
so basically
what we wanna do here is do less proper technique
not in the sense of like you're now gonna shout
and you're gonna blow out your voice
like that's not what this is about
mm hmm
we can do belty and stanky and all of that in a healthy
like proper technique but you know
just having like that mental thoughts of just like

(38:37):
it doesn't need to be technically perfect yeah
it can just be so hard for me raw OK
you know yeah yeah
um can you give me just like a hey hey
yeah what's your problem
I don't know hahaha
I don't know like that
there was even like a natural grit that came through

(38:59):
did you hear that I wish that I had all the time
but like um okay
yes hahaha okay
I like that you do shut up
yeah yeah
uh did
did that feel good though
or did did it yeah feel yeah
okay it felt fine
so you naturally have it already yeah
and if you're not thinking about what you do
it comes out it's just when you start thinking

(39:21):
it gets pretty and you're removing it
because
that's what you were taught in musical theater school
yep right
yep
yeah so can we go black is the note
so hey one more time that hey
great black velvet
black velvet there is rasp there yeah
how does it feel fine yeah

(39:41):
it sounds great good
we're gonna do that again okay
oh God okay

(40:35):
please yeah'cause then that Black Velvet
when you're pulling back again
comes out so much more yeah
if you give me more on the a new religion yeah
that part like how was that
it felt good yeah
it felt a little better yeah
it was dirtier I think it sounded a little better
I love it it was so good

(40:57):
and the funniest thing about that too
and we didn't even talk about that
but you automatically
made your pronunciation of some of the words
more contemporary less proper
like that'll bring you to your knees and not
that'll bring you to your knees
yup yup um
there were other examples there too where
you know a more contemporary style of like articulation

(41:21):
pronunciation and not the musical theater way to like
properly get all of the words out yeah
um so if we go back
Mississippi in the middle of a dry spell
dry dry not dry
draw spell draw
draw spell yeah
draw yeah draw

(41:42):
yeah right
Jimmy Rogers
uh up high high
high high
yeah right
Mama's dancing that one was great dancing
I love that with the baby on a
do you I okay
so I do this a lot like the

(42:04):
you know that release that little crack at the end yeah
I do that a lot
and that's not necessarily something you have to do
do you ever do that I don't because I get afraid of it
you got afraid of it I get afraid of it cause I'm like
it's just gonna sound like my voice is cracking
it's gonna sound bad well
that is because your voice is cracking when you do that

(42:25):
hahaha and there you go
and again right
less proper yep
but totally works for for the style um
I would love to see just like physically
can you make that happen can you just try shoulder
shoulder
yeah there you go
do it one more time and that last ugh

(42:46):
that that that release there at the end
think of it more as like a
I'm just releasing rather than I'm now ugh
like going up in pitch yeah
shoulder
ugh shh OK
yeah shoulder
there it is yeah
airy yeah
it's just a release at the end
very cool do you like that

(43:08):
yeah I think that's what my songs need
I think that's part of like adding character to it
yeah it's just badassery
it's badassery yeah
yeah I love it
it sounds so cool I love more of that
and you don't have to do it everywhere again
like I do it honestly way too much OK
every time I listen to myself sing and I'm like girl
like really
then calm down

(43:29):
calm down on these like little local flips
yeah it's the Swiss in me OK
like
I have to yodel whenever there's the chance to yodel
well and like I would
my sister always says this
she says I would rather you go for it
and have me reel you back in
than have to like
pull it out of you yes
which is true absolutely
yeah absolutely 100% yeah

(43:51):
um glasses in the sky
that was all great moving on
um is the sky the note where you go really low
or like molasses in the sky
yeah yeah
sky like you're really creating a lot of space
like I I think
you're probably just dropping your lyrics down there
and it's like ugh

(44:12):
like I love it
it sounds I'm a sucker for rich low notes
so again I might be a little biased there
but love the way you sing that
okay good
super cool super cool
um
uh he'd leave you long and forward
that you that
I think that's where you
where you change the vowel there too
mm hmm um
like the word slightly yep

(44:33):
and I was like yes
yes yes yes
that's exactly it um cool
let's just do it one more time
cause I feel like you're you're
you're starting to get get into it
don't be afraid of those releases OK
right yeah
and it's a
it's just gonna help you create that contrast more
mm hmm right
mm hmm um
and again with this song
it's not necessarily like how you're like

(44:56):
building like a ballad you know
like when when you're singing a ballad
you start soft and then you know
you start building
and then you get into the chorus and then you
you know cool down again yeah
this song is way more up and down
up and down up and down through everything
like line by line
Mississippi in the middle of a drought yeah

(45:17):
for example you don't have to do it that way right
but it's constantly like
pushing and pulling and pushing and pulling so
you know just have fun with it yeah
go to the extremes we can always tone it back down

(46:25):
OK how was that
felt good felt good yeah yeah
do you feel any strain anything at all
not really it doesn't sound like it
no so yeah
no it's that tongue tension that's released
you know nice
it's been working it's been working
it really has I think
um question for you yeah

(46:46):
would you be open to reducing some of that vibrato
your vibrato is beautiful
it really is it's constant
it's sure that's a bit extreme
but uh
you know if we go into that black
velvet right

(47:07):
black velvet
okay but like
only having the vibrato coming in on the lower note
like on the last note yeah
not also on the top note again
it's gonna sound if you do it that way
it's gonna sound a little more contemporary yeah
a little bit less musical theatery yeah
classical not that that's what it is at all yeah
you know what I mean right

(47:27):
so yeah black velvet
straight black velvet
and if you want vibrato on that bottom note
you can add that back in there okay
um let's try the chorus
just the chorus one more time okay
and C uh
if you I'll cut some of that out yeah
just just be aware of it

(47:49):
you know and if you're aware of it that usually yeah
I think I just forget that the job's done yeah
it is there yeah
yeah yeah
totally fair it's all about awareness
it really is yeah
really nice
and don't hold back on that dah curse is that yeah
or that hey
it's the same spot right there
yeah yeah yeah
just raw OK

(48:09):
whiny raw yeah OK and
you know from deep within from deep

(48:42):
yeah that's hard to get rid of it
hard to get rid of it it's hard to get rid of it yeah
okay yeah
so just practicing some straight tone uh huh
and you know just really making that a
a conscious like effort yeah
choice
because I know you can do it and it's just a matter of
oh I've been doing it this other way for a while now
and now I'm changing it yeah

(49:03):
it's like ah
this habit has been built and it's difficult to yes
exactly some changes to it yeah
and I feel like the vibrato really helps me like
stay pitch wise where I need to be yes
oh 100%
you know
so then I get a little like if I do straight tone
I'm nervous I'm gonna be flat or sharp
but also like
if you're singing live and you're a little flat

(49:24):
I'd rather have it like
with character and be a little flat than like yeah
you know it's
you know so funny how like pitch is
it's been a very big discussion in my like my life
like with students coming in and wanting to do lessons
or online what's being discussed
like everybody's obsessing over pitch and I'm like

(49:45):
yo uh
that is just a part of singing one small part yes
of course like
we don't want you to start singing all over the board
but if you go slightly under on a note
when you're singing live like
oh well
the character is the important part right
for sure and like stylistically
I feel like I looked at um

(50:05):
Emily had me look at a lot a lot of blues singers okay
and that really helped
because they're not necessarily concerned about pitch
they're just like blue singers
I think out of any other singers
like really feel the music
and they really just let out whatever comes to them
yeah and you never listen to like

(50:27):
I don't know
you never listen to the greats like Aretha Franklin
and you're like
I don't know when she did that wow
like that I don't know
that was like a little flat or like
but you don't do that you're just like
oh wow
mm hmm she's like
she's singing it she's really singing it for sure yeah
yeah I
I agree with everything you just said
and in the studio we have a little bit of help right

(50:49):
yes and again
it's like if you're like slightly under
nobody's gonna know right
right yeah
but not that that's like the goal
not that that's what we're shooting for cause
you know sometimes with these higher like belted notes
uh if we remove the vibrato and it goes slightly under
like
I wanna make sure that that doesn't come from a tension
yep like that
the tension is not the thing that's causing it uh

(51:10):
but if that's not the case
and you know
usually you're right on the note and it just
oh well
that one time you went slightly under whatever yeah
yeah it's just a part of singing
you're never 100% on pitch right yeah
I watched um
Chapelle Ronan interview recently
and they were asking her about Good Luck babe

(51:31):
and they were like so
how does it feel to have a song that's so hard to sing
and she's like I can't even sing that song
yeah I heard that too
I can't sing that song live
like yeah
I sang it in the studio once and like
we got it and that was it
so yeah that makes me feel a little bit better
and like that's what the tools are there for
I would rather use those tools and really like
get into the song as opposed to like

(51:54):
I don't wanna use autotune
I don't wanna use pitch correct
like I don't that's what they're there for
yeah and like everybody uses it right
literally everybody literally everybody yes
do you in the studio
do you ever record with autotune on as you're recording
um only on
I've only done that on one song lately called machine

(52:15):
that is coming out later okay
haha at some point it's gonna be on the EP in September
but um that's the only one that I did that on
and it was like auto tuned like stylistically okay
like really like Ring Ring
you know yeah
yeah yeah
um
otherwise if I do
it's not so much that I can even really tell hmm

(52:37):
and I think that's my producer
like my producer understands me very well good
yeah good
so he knows like when to turn it on
when to turn it off like yeah um
so I feel like everybody everybody does use it um
but I like to use it sparingly at first
and then go back in and like
really tune stuff up yeah

(52:58):
if I need to totally fair yeah
totally fair yeah
I honestly like I didn't even know that uh
recording like as you're singing
you're hearing the pitch corrected version
uh huh that that's even a thing like
I didn't know that until I went to a vocal production
retreat
I don't know when was this early may and uh
I was like oh my God

(53:19):
this is so cool because for a lot of singers
this is gonna help them get out of their heads
yeah because they're not worried about pitch
yep and when you're not worried about pitch
guess what happens your pitch is usually a lot better
yeah when you're not worrying about it
it's so true yeah
so yeah and every
like going back to my sister people on Broadway
the what you hear on Broadway

(53:40):
is going through pitch correction
it's going through autotune in the booth
and coming back out in the speakers
like it's not literally everybody uses it
and it's not like a negative thing
that I think some people have kind of made it to be
yeah I agree with that
but there's a plenty of people that will disagree and
you know let us know in the comments
you let us know if you can do it without auto tune

(54:01):
you let us know well
I know
cause at this point we are so used like as you know
the average person listening to music
we're so used to hearing perfect yeah
vocals that if it's not
we immediately think that I mean
not us cause we're singers yeah
but the average person immediately thinks like
ugh they can't sing
uh huh I'm like

(54:21):
actually no no no
no no no
no
we're just so used to hearing perfection all the time
when it comes to pitch yeah
that it's just not natural right right
it's just not something that really is ever what
what happens right
and but I don't think that that makes autotune
then a bad thing because it's
it's just a tool it's a tool right yeah

(54:42):
and again people just need to realize that
singing is so much more than
just hitting the right notes
at the right time yep
like all these other little nuances that go into it
are what makes singers truly great right
not can they sing the right notes right
and it's the same with instruments too
you know like yeah
I feel like you can somebody can play guitar
but then you can like really like stand yeah

(55:04):
you know what I mean so like
it's just a tool like like instrumentalists use
you know they tune their instruments so that they
are playing the right notes and like
it's the same general concept yeah
so yeah I very much agree
I could go on and on and on about that for
a really long time but you know again
it's just a tool that we can use yep
but it's not like we're still practicing

(55:27):
like when we're practicing for a performance or
or a studio recording or whatever
we're still practicing it
so that we don't have to rely on these things exactly
but they're there if we if we need them exactly yeah
and um
also with things like autotune you know
if you don't want it to be noticeable
your pitch can't be far off correct

(55:47):
because if it's far off
you're gonna hear the correction on it
it's not gonna sound natural yeah
and I think that's that is a very good um
caveat is that like
we're not singing it in like
a completely different key
like completely all over the place
you're close enough that it's just like yes
giving you a little help oh yeah
you're like slightly under

(56:07):
exactly over not like way off exactly
for sure yeah
for sure yeah but I mean
just listening to you here
like a real raw live vocal
like there's nothing on these mics
there's no autotune there's no reverb
there's no nothing this is dry yeah
and I think it's a good thing to show this to people
so they can hear what dry vocals

(56:29):
sound like oh yeah
and you sounded fantastic
thank you right
so again it shows like you don't need this stuff right
but everybody still uses it right
for those teeny
tiny little split seconds where it's not quite there
right and that's it is what it is OK
anyways
you sound great thank you

(56:49):
I uh
I'm loving this part of you
when it's like really coming out
and it is natural for you
cause when you just did the hey and it was like
yeah oh my God
like it's there it comes naturally to you
you just need to allow yourself
to let that part come out yeah
that's really what it comes down to
I think I need to write songs that allow it to come out
too yeah

(57:09):
which I don't really do well
because you're scared yeah exactly
I'm afraid to go there 100% write songs that can do it
I am just so
excited to see how your songwriting is going to change
yeah with that
you know when you're feeling more like yeah
I'm just gonna let it out in sweet seduce
in Swiss German we call that let the pig out
oh yeah so I just
I want you to let the pig out

(57:30):
I'm gonna let the pig out
yeah okay
that's always that okay
I'll think about that when I'm in the studio next time
let the pig out
haha yeah
it's hilarious but let the pig out
let it let it come out no uh
you sound great you really do
and if you're like yeah
I'm feeling
physically feeling good when I'm making these sounds
I have zero concerns yeah

(57:51):
yeah everything felt good and healthy
and I think that's like
regular voice lessons that have really
really really good
really helped good
yeah good
yeah cause that's the foundation right like yup yes
we wanna make it less perfect in quotes right
more of that letting the pick out
yeah type of style for this song
at least not if you're singing musical theater
but for this kind of style um

(58:13):
but the top priority for me
at least is still whatever you do
it's gotta be sustainable
yes right
so that you can do it over and over and over again
and not get tired
and not blow out your voice or anything like that
that still needs to be there
if that's there I don't care what you do right
if it's sustainable go for it right

(58:34):
yeah and then you see singers like Lady Gaga who like
I mean she would literally scream
oh yeah
but it's sustainable yeah
cause she has the technique to support it right
and that's wild yeah
but it's doable yeah
it's doable and it's so cool when you can do it
and you can you can
now you just need to actually do it
I know I'm gonna do it
I'm gonna do it yes
I'm gonna let the pig out
let's do it

(58:54):
I swear I wanna see a pig on your next single release
OK you got the art form like the art
like the whatever the picture
what is it called the cover art
thank you I'm like
what is it called the cover art
I wanna see a pig
let the pig out or like pig makeup or whatever
that's a good EP title let the pig out
let the pig out yeah
that would be my next album
I love it perfect
go for it hahaha

(59:16):
um I love it
I I'm having so much fun
is there anything else that
any questions that you have that I can answer for you
any singing questions any
any other questions anything
you know what
there's something that I've been thinking about
that I was gonna ask Emily
that I might as well just ask you yes um
I remember years ago when I did

(59:37):
I did like my very first lesson with you
and you taught me how to like make a
like a stank yeah
face and yeah it would come out better
so I've been trying to balance
making the stank face with also having
very little tongue and jaw tension
hmm so tips on how to like

(01:00:00):
on how to like
really get that grit in your nose while still not like
tensing up the rest of you yeah
not thinking about it okay
haha great
it cause when you just did the hey thing
you didn't do the stank face
you didn't need it and you got the grit
and you got the brightness and the
pretty much exactly the tone that we were looking for
you just weren't thinking about it

(01:00:21):
yeah and
you know like with
you know the scrunchy nose kind of that
that thing um
it's like a tool that we can use to help us
get the tone that we want to get
but it's not necessarily something that we maybe like
wanna rely on OK
too much either yeah

(01:00:42):
uh it's just like hey
where else can we place the sound
or how can we shape our facial muscles
to get the sound that we want
cause just like
sometimes it's nice to have a little bit of a smile
or a little bit of a lift to get the note out
exactly the way you want to
compared to when your facial muscles are completely
relaxed right
like we can use all these different muscles
that we have to shape the tone
to make it what we want it to be

(01:01:03):
but again we don't want it then to cause tension right
cause then that defeats the whole purpose right
I think with you
it really just comes down to just making sound
and not thinking about it too much
it's so hard to do just using primal sounds right
primal sounds basically just means
using sounds from the

(01:01:23):
like your everyday life essentially
and I'm just using
using that to it like imitates those sounds and
put that in your singing and that's pretty much it
cause your voice already knows how to do it
it's your mind that gets in the way for sure
incorporate movement that's gonna help with that okay

(01:01:44):
right
so if you I mean here we're just kind of like sitting
yeah you can just kind of like wiggle back and forth
yeah but yeah
when you're you know when you're at home
like you can stand up and you can
you know move your arms
you can walk around
like any sort of movement makes you multitask
and when you're multitasking
you can't truly like
hyper focus on the thing that you're doing
with your voice yeah
also movement you know helps you blood flow uh

(01:02:06):
see that your circulation is going
and you're not overthinking
and yeah it just your muscles can't tense up right
when you're when you're in movement
I think that's also why when I did that open mic
why I think it felt so good is because I had a mic
and a mic stand okay
so I thought a lot about like
what am I doing with my hands

(01:02:27):
like how long have I been holding on to the mic
yeah and that allowed my voice to just kind of like
do the song and like sing the song great yeah
I love that that's a good tip yeah
stop overthinking look at yourself
like tell yourself I am a singer
I'm a singer hahaha
I'm gonna write it on my mirror
yes yeah

(01:02:47):
yes and then you're golden
like you truly like you are so great
you're a great vocalist thank you
and now you just let the pig out
gotta let the pig out and then you're good okay
I can do it I love it
oh thank you so much
Miss King thank you for coming on
thanks for having me of course
thank you for sharing your beautiful voice with us
your story it's very inspiring

(01:03:09):
thank you thank you for
you know working with us at Vox Tape
thank you Coach Emily
thank you Coach Emily
yes there you go
she's a star she is a rock star
you guys are all great thank you
we we try
we do a good job we pretend
we pretend well
and yeah no
thank you for trusting us
thank you for working with us
and um
please let us all know

(01:03:30):
where can we listen to your music
you can listen to it literally anywhere
you can stream Spotify Apple Music
Amazon Music um
if you go to Prena king.com
you'll get pop UPS
that will tell you exactly where to go
so perfect yeah awesome
yeah thank you so much for Anna
thank you and we'll
we'll do this again sometime OK yay
I'm so excited Yay

(01:03:50):
I love it thank you so much
thank you for tuning in
and we'll catch you in the next episode
bye everyone