June 17, 2024 • 38 mins
Summary:
In this episode, Cielle discusses the importance of building trust with ourselves by embracing that our thoughts, feelings, and reactions are valid and make sense. She explains that anxiety is a natural response to threat and danger, and procrastination can be a symptom of flight, freeze, fight, or fawn stress cycle responses. By understanding the root causes of our anxieties and procrastination, we can make conscious choices. This episode is perfect for Gen Z, college students, and young adults looking to understand (and unshame) their own anxieties and procrastination. By gaining self-awareness and making choices that serve us best, we can build trust and confidence in ourselves.
Keywords:
trust, self-validation, anxiety, procrastination, flight, freeze, fight, fawn, self-awareness, self-confidence
Takeaways:
- Anxiety signals threat and danger; it is not a sign of weakness or inadequacy.
- Procrastination can be a symptom of flight, freeze, fight, or fawn responses, and understanding the reasons behind it can help us make choices that serve us best.
- Validating our emotions and embracing our valid thoughts, feelings, and reactions is crucial for building self-awareness and self-confidence.
- By gaining self-awareness and making choices that serve us best, we can build trust and confidence in ourselves.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction: Exploring the Concept of Making Sense 04:18 Examples of Validity and Making Sense 06:30 Understanding the Nervous System 08:59 Anxiety as a Natural Response to Threat 22:44 Different Stress Responses: Fight, Flight, Freeze, and Fawn 31:39 Practical Applications: Understanding and Validating Anxiety and Procrastination 35:52 Conclusion: Building Trust with Ourselves
Mentions:
Thank you always to my wonderful husband, Brandon Ward, for the intro. And to the amazing duo Miracle Laurie and Bobbo Byrnes for the song Effin' Groovy used in the outro. Appreciate you all.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:52):
Welcome y 'all to this episode of FullSend Into Adulthood with me, with CL, and
full disclosure, today I am feeling lowenergy.
The word that I had earlier for myself,which still feels true, is subdued.
And what was interesting to me is we areabout to do an episode all about how we
(01:17):
fundamentally make sense.
how we are valid as human beings.
The context for this is that if we aregoing to build this foundation called
adulthood or this foundation that iscalled our sense of self amidst this thing
called adulthood so that we can makechoices that feel good to us, we can live
this life that feels personallymeaningful,
(01:39):
One of the ways to do this in a way thatfeels really good and grounded and
luscious is to start to build trust withourselves.
And we cannot build trust with ourselveswhen we continue to badmouth, bully and
belittle ourselves and our brains.
(01:59):
You know that nyan nyan nyan voice that'slike, you shoulda, you coulda, you're not
good enough.
So one of the ways that we can start todissipate that voice, and I'm not saying
that voice is always, is ever gonna goaway, but it can get quieter and much
kinder.
And one of the ways to do that is for usto notice that the ways that we react to
(02:24):
things, the ways that we feel, the waysthat we think are all valid and on purpose
and not less than.
Now, let's rewind to me earlier though,how insipid this could be is I'm thinking,
(02:44):
I knew I wanted to record this podcast.
I am committed to getting it out.
We're about to head out of town and in mybrain and in my commitment to y 'all, I
was like, I'm gonna get this podcast outbefore I head on vacation for a week.
We're heading to Kentucky.
We got a cabin there and family and I'mexcited.
So in the midst of my low energy day, whatI mean by that y 'all is
(03:08):
It's one of those days for me where ittakes a lot extra or a little extra energy
and oomph to even be around people, toeven speak kindly to the people I love the
most in the world.
(03:28):
And this morning, I...
did not go well.
And so I gave myself a timeout.
I said I'm taking myself to the nailsalon.
I'm gonna get this dang pedicure.
and at least get myself out of this space.
Now what was interesting is I knew I wasgoing to be doing this podcast
(03:52):
And as I was getting my nails did, Iactually second guessed and was like,
perhaps I don't do the podcast todaybecause I'm not feeling energetic and I'm
not feeling warm and fuzzy and I'm not soexcited.
And it was at that point that I realized,shit, I created my own dang expectation.
(04:13):
I created an expectation that in order todo like record a podcast in order to
provide value for y 'all,
I made up somehow that y 'all would wantto see me energetic and excitable and all
of those things and I am not feeling thattoday.
And I got to lean into, okay, you knowwhat?
(04:36):
Subdued Me can still record a podcast.
Subdued Me is just as valuable asExcitable Me.
Subdued Me can be powerful and that trustthing for me is an
This is the way that I am to be today andI will deliver this message and it is
(04:58):
meant to be this for a reason.
So we're going with it.
Welcome to episode four.
So here's what I want to do today is Iwant to provide examples of what the heck
I mean when I say that we are valid and wemake sense.
(05:19):
These are the two things that I hear mostabout related to questioning our value.
The first is whenever we feel anxious, wefeel worried about something and how that
sounds is, I shouldn't feel so worried.
If this was meant for me, I would beexcited.
(05:41):
If this was meant for me, I wouldn't feelscared.
If I actually had confidence, I wouldn'tbe anxious.
Okay, that's just a no.
And I promise I'll explain why.
The other one is procrastination.
Ooh, even when I say it, we're y 'alllike, yes, that's the worst.
(06:02):
And a lot of times procrastination islinked with laziness, which in, I will
say, some of your brains and somecultures, it's probably.
of the worst words that you could callsomeone lazy.
And so we're going to talk about that onetoo.
But before we go into both of those, let'stalk about our...
(06:27):
I love that I told y 'all that I wassubdued except for now I'm getting
excited.
So you know what?
Talk about emotions.
Did y 'all know?
So there is research just randomly becausethis is the stuff that's in our brain that
if we allow an emotion to be, and I willsay that depending on the research, the
timeframe changes, but the least amountthat I've seen is that if we allow the
(06:50):
emotion to be, it works through our bodywithin 90 seconds.
Now I will say sometimes that feels reallyfast, but think about all the times that
we will re -trigger that emotion based onus making ourselves wrong and shaming us
(07:11):
and shaming ourselves into believing thatwe shouldn't feel that certain way.
Okay.
That was my tangent.
Let's go into the nervous system.
So we have this thing called a nervoussystem.
And our nervous system's number one job isto keep us safe.
(07:32):
Let me repeat that.
Our nervous system's number one job is tokeep us safe.
Now here in the Western world, we haveidealized our brain.
And we have created this separationbetween brain and body.
(07:55):
Now, I get it.
They're all linked.
But for the purpose of this analogy, Iwant you to think about it this way.
We tend to think that our brain controlseverything, that the way that
communication is, is top down.
Our brain thinks it, and then it sendsmessages down, and then our body does it.
(08:16):
However, this is flawed.
And how do we know this?
Y 'all, if that was the case, you would beable to think yourselves into doing a lot
of things that we are not actually able todo.
If we are in the midst of a panic attackand no amount of thinking, I shouldn't be
(08:36):
in this panic attack.
Okay, just stop, stop the panic attack.
Just stop, just stop, just stop.
It's going to stop the panic attack.
Similarly, using procrastination.
I know your brains have tried to tellyourselves, let's not procrastinate.
We're not gonna procrastinate right now.
This is ridiculous.
Why are we putting this thing off one moretime?
(08:57):
the way that the communication happened,our body was always top down and top had
control over our body, we won'tprocrastinate as much.
So what research actually showcases isthat 80 % of the communication is actually
body to brain, and only 20 % is brain tobody.
(09:20):
Also, that part of our nervous system hashad a lot more time to develop than our
frontal cortex.
So I'm just gonna put that
Another thing that is important to knowabout our nervous system is that our
nervous system communicates in our bodies.
It communicates via emotions and feelings.
It does not communicate with language.
(09:42):
So it has us feel things.
One feeling is anxiety.
Now anxiety is an emotion that signalsdanger.
There is a purpose to this thing calledanxiety.
It is like, dude, there is a threat.
We think there might be danger here.
(10:05):
And so it's going to start a stressresponse in our nervous system to have us
survive.
It wants us to stay living.
And so it's going to do...
one of four things and I'm sure you allhave heard of this already but it's fight,
flight, freeze, or fawn.
(10:25):
It's going to do one of those things.
Again, your body is going to react to thethreat in a certain way.
Now, what's even more important to note isthat this is in our DNA.
We come from humans who have amazingspidey anxiety senses.
(10:48):
How do I know?
Because they're the ones who freakingsurvived.
So let's go back in time to humanancestry.
So our ancestors are hunting and they hearsomething.
in the bushes.
Now, those with a keen sense of anxiety,those who are able to sense danger and
(11:14):
threats really well, have over timerealized that rustle means saber -tooth
tiger or anaconda.
And they react appropriately to eithersave their lives or kill the thing, right?
So they can fight, they can flee.
Some of them may freeze if you're apossum, right?
And you're freezing and that saves yourlife and you play dead.
(11:37):
Or you fawn, you people, people please atthat point as a saber tooth tiger, but you
try to appease, right?
If you're in front of a bear, it's okay,mama bear.
You do whatever you do.
We're gonna appease you, we're gonna makeyou happy, and we're gonna walk away.
We do not want your cubs.
Can y 'all see that the ancestors who hadthis emotion and used it well, then
(12:02):
procreated.
And then there's us.
I shouldn't feel anxious.
I'm like, are you kidding me?
We've got master spidey senses in thisanxiety realm.
Again, it is just in our DNA.
You're welcome in an effort to keep usalive.
(12:26):
Now here's where it becomes problematic isnow in our modern age.
We can't tell the difference in our bodyas in our nervous system doesn't know, is
this anaconda or is this an email from myboss?
Is this saber tooth tiger or is this atext from my ex?
(12:48):
for both of those we register in ourbrains we think shit threat this may be a
threat and when we feel that again ourbody is going my gosh anxiety that that
means danger let's elicit the stressresponse to make sure that we survive this
(13:08):
thing.
Can y 'all see that this is as our bodiesare designed?
There is nothing wrong here.
Our bodies are designed this way as aprotective force to keep us alive as well
as it can.
And if y 'all are here watching orlistening to me, can y 'all see that it
(13:33):
has worked up until this point?
Yay, I am so glad.
because it allows us to be togetheramongst other amazing things, I'm sure.
So can you see that anxiety is not a badand wrong emotion?
It is a natural response to threat anddanger.
It is a natural response for us in ourlives.
(13:54):
It is appropriate.
I repeat, you are not flawed because youfeel this thing called anxiety.
You are not flawed because you are anxiousabout an email or a text or about a new
job or trying something new.
Again, your nervous system's number onejob is to keep us safe.
(14:18):
And it utilizes this emotion calledanxiety to signal danger and a threat to
then cope with that thing in hopes ofsurviving.
Now what happens though?
when it actually stops us from doing thethings that we know we want to be doing.
(14:43):
Because yes, anxiety is an emotion andyes, it can pass through us, but how do we
have that pass through us quickly?
And again, not stop us from the thingsthat we know are meaningful to us, things
that we know are going to elevate us andit's the thing that we actually want to
try to do.
(15:04):
even if it's scary.
So what's an example of this?
An example could be you finally got thatjob that you've been going for and you're
really excited for it.
Or you get into that school that youreally wanted to do and you're about to go
into the first lab or the first class andyou feel trepidation.
(15:29):
You feel anxious.
Now, one way that we tend to interpretthat in our society based on the messaging
is, shit, this job must not be the job forme because I'm feeling anxious about this
job.
I thought I was supposed to feel calm andexcited and loving and all these amazing
(15:54):
things all the time about this job that Ihave never done before.
So can y 'all see that when anything isnew, when we are doing anything new in our
lives, can you see that that could beperceived as a threat?
Why?
(16:15):
Because our nervous system fundamentallydoes not know, am I going to survive this
thing?
Are we gonna survive here?
I know you say you want this job, butwe've never done this job before.
So ding ding ding ding ding!
Is this the red flag?
Is this a threat?
Is this danger?
Do we need to flee?
that is automatically going to show up.
(16:38):
And one way of reacting to this is, thereyou are, anxiety.
Thank you so much for protecting me.
my gosh,
it is important for me to mention herethat when we are talking about anxiety on
this podcast, I am referring to mild,maybe a little bit into moderate, but mild
(16:59):
anxiety, meaning that we can function inour daily lives.
I am not referring to debilitating andsevere anxiety here.
If you do have severe or debilitatinganxiety, health professionals are there to
support you or around to support you.
And if you are struggling to find somebodyto support you, please reach out to me.
(17:23):
I have many, many, many, many contacts.
Okay.
So in these cases, we're talking aboutmild anxiety.
So you may be feeling mild anxiety becauseyou're about to go do a new thing.
And anytime we start something new, ournervous system registers that as a
(17:43):
possible danger and anxiety will show upthat emotion as a way of protecting us.
So we get to say, thank you so much forprotecting me.
I got it here.
This is actually what's going to move usforward.
This is actually something that I want totry and I know that it's going to feel
(18:07):
stressful.
I know that I'm going to feel nervous, butI got us.
And you keep going.
I feel like it's so important to mentionnow too, because so many of y 'all talk to
me about building confidence.
And you think that if you choose, and allof us do, again, nothing wrong with this.
It's sort of perpetuated in the media, iswe think that if we find the thing that
(18:31):
we're supposed to be doing the rest of ourlives, it's going to feel amazing all the
time.
that we're going to feel confident andmotivated at that thing, even though it's
new.
So for example, let's say you've knownthat you wanna be a public speaker, you
wanna be on stages, you wanna do a TedTalk, that is what you want to do.
(18:56):
However, you have never done it beforeyet.
you will absolutely 99 % of the time feelnervous getting up on that stage.
You are not going to feel confident untilyour body can register, we are safe here.
(19:19):
So what does it take to get up on thatstage and start building this speaker
career of yours?
It means getting on the stage nervous,having anxiety show up and say, dude, we
have never gone on a stage this bigbefore.
Is this a saber -tooth tiger?
And you get to say, no, no, no, not saber-tooth tiger.
(19:40):
We're actually good here.
This is what we want to do.
We're gonna get on this stage.
Once you complete your talk, once youspeak on that stage and you get that's
when your body registers, we're stillalive.
Yay!
And as you continue to do that, as thatbecomes the norm, your body then realizes,
(20:09):
this thing called talking on stages, yeah,we got this.
We don't die from this.
We're not threatened by this thinganymore.
And that's when you start to feel theconfidence.
That's when you start to not feel nervousanymore.
But let me just also put out there thatBeyonce Ms.
(20:29):
Sasha Fierce, she says she still getsnervous about before getting on a stage,
and yet she still does the thing.
That is the magic that is us.
Ding!
So let me reiterate, just because you feelanxiety for this job that you've been
(20:52):
vying for for years, for this school thatyou just got into and you know you want to
go to, for trying something new that youhave never done before, this thing called
anxiousness is gonna show up.
Thank you so much for trying to protectme.
(21:13):
Sometimes I really do legit picture abodyguard.
And I think, okay, thank you, thank you.
Love you so much.
I know you are going full force right now.
You think that we are major in danger.
And we're gonna try it.
I promise, I'm gonna try it and then I'mgonna let you hold me for a little
Lots of times I gotta shake it out.
(21:35):
Lots of times you'll see me shaking beforesomething big that I do.
And then we go and then we take care ofourselves afterwards.
It does not mean that you are not meant todo the thing.
We do have agency here.
So how does this relate toprocrastination?
Well, let me tell you.
So there are a variety.
(21:56):
There are many, many, many reasons that weprocrastinate.
But what I tend to hear is always that itis bad from people, right?
Or we experience it as like, my gosh, howdare I procrastinate?
I am stupid and worthless and ridiculousand I'm not smart and I can't do anything
(22:17):
with my life ever again because I can'tget over this procrastination.
Why can't I just study for this test orwrite this dang email that I've been
putting off for three months or I wassupposed to get shoes seven months ago and
I still haven't done it or this paper.
I always tell myself that I'm gonna writethese papers as soon as I find out but
here I am in finals week and I still havewritten none.
(22:43):
First of all, y 'all, that's most humanbeings.
And what if there was an amazingly awesomereason that we are procrastinating?
What if we could unshame this thing calledprocrastination for ourselves so that we
can not only start to understand ourselvesa bit better, but we could get a sense of,
(23:07):
this is why I'm procrastinating.
and you can actually validate foryourself, do I actually want to continue
procrastinating and not do this thing?
Does procrastination actually work for mein this sense?
Or do I want to go do the thing?
I'm actually putting this thing off for areason that I don't agree with.
(23:32):
Let me explain.
So when we were talking about stressresponse,
Whenever we signal threat, our body willgo into a stress response cycle.
and those include fight, flight, freeze,or fawn.
So let's go over each of those.
Procrastination can actually be a symptomof each one of these things.
(23:58):
How?
So let's take flight, right?
We're fleeing.
What does that mean?
It means we are trying to escape andavoid.
So an example of this for me is taxesEvery year I say I'm going to manage my
taxes and have a date with my money everysingle week every single month So come tax
season.
(24:18):
It's gonna be so easy y 'all.
I have not once done that
Every tax season, I am filled withprocrastination.
I wait and I wait and I wait.
And what am I avoiding?
I am avoiding looking at my finances andthe uncomfortable, nasty feelings that I
(24:40):
have about how I did not do it goodenough.
I should have known better.
I should have invested better.
I should not have purchased that program.
I should have all these things that all ofthese ways that
I start proving to myself via doing taxesthat I am not good enough, I avoid and I
(25:03):
put it off.
can y 'all see that it actually makessense for me to want to avoid belittling
and bullying myself?
Like that doesn't feel good.
like those feelings.
I don't like looking in a mirror andfacing those feelings.
I don't like rethinking all of thesechoices all of these ways that I could
(25:25):
have done things better.
And of course, there are ways for me toget out of it and to make it all good.
Yes, but can in for the purpose of thisconversation.
Of course, I want to avoid that.
And so I procrastinate.
until I actually have a say over how Italk about this or how I experience this
(25:45):
or how I do taxes.
And then I go do the thing.
Now let's talk about procrastination as afreeze response.
So freeze, think about shutting down.
When we numb ourselves, when wedisassociate, a lot of times that could be
scrolling on a phone.
Sometimes we are procrastinating becausewe are in full shutdown mode.
(26:08):
What comes to mind here is burnout.
we have worked so hard that we are now solow energy that we have got to do only the
minimal tasks in order to survive.
So can you see that in that realm, ifyou're procrastinating a 30 page paper
(26:29):
because you can barely handle makingyourself food at night, again, that makes
logical sense.
your body's gonna be like, in order tosurvive, we need to eat.
So with whatever energy we have left, withwhatever capacity we still have, let's
(26:51):
feed ourselves, which means, yeah, that 30page papers, that's to the side.
Priority level down.
That email that I said I was gonna writethree months ago, eating?
Email.
Perhaps we eat.
Now let's go to fight because fight makesme very happy oftentimes.
(27:13):
Because a lot of times we're actuallygonna notice that we're procrastinating to
defend ourselves against something that wedeem as exploitative or not right or
ethically incorrect.
And we don't actually validate that andpat ourselves on the back.
Instead, we tend to make ourselves wrongfor this thing called procrastination when
(27:37):
actually our whole body is like, we'regonna revolt against somebody that's
trying to mistreat us.
So think about the workplace.
Let's say somebody told you, you have todo this report, And that's the thing that
you've been procrastinating.
But the context of this is that,
(27:59):
You actually wrote the dang report.
You put it on your boss's desk.
except for your colleague pretended thatit was from them and your boss believed
your colleague.
So your boss thought that that report thatyou wrote, your colleague did, they got
accolades and now your boss is tellingyou, you need to write me a new report.
(28:23):
I never got the first one that you wrote.
Can y 'all see that that's a huge F -U?
That is a huge, like, if you areprocrastinating that thing, valid.
Should we do another?
Why, sure, let's do another.
(28:44):
Ooh, let's pick a juicy one like going tocollege right after high school and
knowing that you need to pay for ityourself and get financial aid.
How many of you at that point are unclearabout what you want to do as a job or
(29:05):
several jobs?
And yet there is this pressure to gohundreds of thousands of dollars in debt
for a corporate America that may or maynot hire you.
a company that may or may not pay you asurvivable wage, a living wage.
(29:28):
for a company that may not pay you enoughto be able to pay back your student loan
debt.
Let alone thrive in this economy.
And yet we berate ourselves and we makeourselves wrong for saying, hold on, let's
procrastinate here.
What if I held off college for one or twoor five or 20 years until it actually
(29:55):
feels like a choice that serves me becauseI know that that's the next right step and
the money and the finances and all of thatseem to work out.
or those things are worth it for me to gofor that thing.
Can you all see that procrastinating herecan actually be you standing up against
(30:19):
your own exploitation?
That's pretty gnarly!
Last one, fawning.
fawning is probably the one that is theleast well known and fawning is the people
pleasing.
Y 'all, I fall a lot into the fawning.
It's the people pleasing, it's theappeasing, it's the catering to others
(30:44):
needs.
Perhaps you are procrastinating becauseYou are feeling like you want to appease
or you're catering to other people's needsat the detriment of your own.
And so your body is having this genius wayof like, we're not doing that.
(31:04):
needs first above our own when we'vealready done that for 20, 30, 40 years.
Right now, we're gonna sit our ass downand we're gonna take care of ourselves.
I just realized I did that today.
Today, I'm gonna go and get myself a dangpedicure and I'm going to procrastinate
(31:27):
recording this podcast.
until I feel better.
But guess what y 'all, in this scenario,I'm actually recording the podcast.
If I didn't go do that thing, if I didn'tactually procrastinate and serve myself
first, there is a high likelihood thatthis would not have happened today.
(31:51):
And then what?
And then I'm breaking...
A commitment that I had to myself to dothis.
And sometimes for me, it's important forme to recommit and that's totally fine.
But today it feels really good to do itthe way that I did to honor the
procrastination, to honor that I wastotally in a triggering stress response
(32:18):
cycle, to do what I needed to do to closethat cycle.
So now I can be here present with y 'all.
I love that that was the example that justshowed up.
Can y 'all see that these so -callednegative things that we do, as in anxiety
(32:38):
and procrastination, can actually be somephenomenal things that we do if we look at
it from a different perspective.
I of the reasons that perspective shiftsis so powerful.
is that when we can start to understand,my gosh, this is what my body is doing.
It's just trying to keep me safe.
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my gosh, I'm procrastinating because Idon't want to accept my own mistreatment
anymore.
And my body recognizes it.
My brain's just a little slow right now,but it's caught up now.
It's caught up.
Thank you very much.
And once we have that knowledge base, oncewe have that data,
Once we can start to understand ourselvesa little bit more, can then start to build
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the trust and the confidence that we havein making choices from there?
And it makes it so much easier.
So if worry or anxiety or nervousnessshows up, you can ask yourself, what am I
afraid of here?
(33:44):
What am I worried is going to happen?
And once you have the answer to that, youcan then make a choice on moving forward
and doing the thing or not doing thething.
And there's no label on one being betterthan the other.
It really is what serves you best and whatyou're trying to accomplish.
(34:09):
for example, for me, what does that looklike in my personal life is the people
pleasing has been showing up and what I amafraid of or what scares me is people's
upset and rage.
And that is from when I was little y 'all.
This is like a childhood trigger thatshows up then I go down this spiral of.
(34:32):
I'm not enough.
No matter how hard I tried, I can'tappease them.
I'm not enough.
For me, people pleasing sometimes lookslike the freeze and the shutdown.
I will shut up.
I won't do the thing.
I basically disassociate and I becomequiet and numb.
That is actually a signal now for me whenI do those things of, my gosh, this is me
(35:00):
trying to appease.
And when this thing happens and I'm tryingto appease these people, I shut down and I
shut up.
Now as a kid, that survival tactic, thatway of coping made so much sense.
I needed to make sure that I had a roofover my head
But now what's important to me is when Ifeel like I am being mistreated or
(35:24):
disrespected, my new commitment to myselfis to stand up for myself.
And because that's what's important to me,I then know what actions to take when the
signals show up,
They are amazing signals for me to if I amcapable right now, I'm gonna stand up for
(35:44):
myself.
and when you're procrastinating, you canactually ask yourself, why am I
procrastinating?
and you can use freeze, flight, fight, andfawn as four questions to ask yourself.
Am I fighting something right now?
Am I fleeing something and trying toavoid?
(36:04):
Am I fawning?
Right now, am I trying to appease?
Am I trying to just cater to somebody?
Is that what is happening here?
Or am I freezing?
Are those the reasons that I'mprocrastinating?
Now they may very well be, and they may befor another reason.
But the point is the reason behind yourprocrastination is not a negative.
(36:29):
Even though we've been taught it's beennegative all our lives.
Today, we get to think about itdifferently.
And we get to actually validate that sidetoo.
Alright, I guess we'll end here.
Thank you so much for being here with me.
(36:50):
Thank you for being amazing human beings.
Thank you so much for taking the time outof your day to listen and I hope that it
was useful to you in some way.
I hope that me subdued today and showingup this way however I was going to show up
was a value add in your life.
(37:12):
So thank you again for being here and I'llsee you next time.
I realize that we are at the beginning ofour podcasting journey together.
However, if you are already excited,already wanting to share this with people
in your lives, already thinking that itwould be beneficial to have these
(37:36):
conversations on a more global scale,there are ways that you could support
that.
The main ways is to like...
follow and subscribe on which everplatform you are watching or listening to
me on.
You could always comment.
I would love to know what you foundhelpful or interesting in any of the
(37:57):
episodes.
And of course, if you have ideas aboutwhat conversations, what topics you would
like to cover in the future, please let meknow.
Again, this podcast is for you.
Other ways that you can find me are onsocial.
So I am on Instagram, TikTok and Facebookat Cielle Amundson.
(38:19):
That is at C I E L L E A M U N D S O N.
Find me there, say hi, let's start aconversation.
And if this is something that you thinkother people in your lives would love to
be a part of, would love to hear, wouldlove to be in conversation with,
(38:39):
please share this with them.
Thank you again and I look forward toseeing you or having you at the next
episode.
Welcome y 'all to this episode of FullSend Into Adulthood with me, with CL, and
full disclosure, today I am feeling lowenergy.
The word that I had earlier for myself,which still feels true, is subdued.
And what was interesting to me is we areabout to do an episode all about how we
(01:17):
fundamentally make sense.
how we are valid as human beings.
The context for this is that if we aregoing to build this foundation called
adulthood or this foundation that iscalled our sense of self amidst this thing
called adulthood so that we can makechoices that feel good to us, we can live
this life that feels personallymeaningful,
(01:39):
One of the ways to do this in a way thatfeels really good and grounded and
luscious is to start to build trust withourselves.
And we cannot build trust with ourselveswhen we continue to badmouth, bully and
belittle ourselves and our brains.
(01:59):
You know that nyan nyan nyan voice that'slike, you shoulda, you coulda, you're not
good enough.
So one of the ways that we can start todissipate that voice, and I'm not saying
that voice is always, is ever gonna goaway, but it can get quieter and much
kinder.
And one of the ways to do that is for usto notice that the ways that we react to
(02:24):
things, the ways that we feel, the waysthat we think are all valid and on purpose
and not less than.
Now, let's rewind to me earlier though,how insipid this could be is I'm thinking,
(02:44):
I knew I wanted to record this podcast.
I am committed to getting it out.
We're about to head out of town and in mybrain and in my commitment to y 'all, I
was like, I'm gonna get this podcast outbefore I head on vacation for a week.
We're heading to Kentucky.
We got a cabin there and family and I'mexcited.
So in the midst of my low energy day, whatI mean by that y 'all is
(03:08):
It's one of those days for me where ittakes a lot extra or a little extra energy
and oomph to even be around people, toeven speak kindly to the people I love the
most in the world.
(03:28):
And this morning, I...
did not go well.
And so I gave myself a timeout.
I said I'm taking myself to the nailsalon.
I'm gonna get this dang pedicure.
and at least get myself out of this space.
Now what was interesting is I knew I wasgoing to be doing this podcast
(03:52):
And as I was getting my nails did, Iactually second guessed and was like,
perhaps I don't do the podcast todaybecause I'm not feeling energetic and I'm
not feeling warm and fuzzy and I'm not soexcited.
And it was at that point that I realized,shit, I created my own dang expectation.
(04:13):
I created an expectation that in order todo like record a podcast in order to
provide value for y 'all,
I made up somehow that y 'all would wantto see me energetic and excitable and all
of those things and I am not feeling thattoday.
And I got to lean into, okay, you knowwhat?
(04:36):
Subdued Me can still record a podcast.
Subdued Me is just as valuable asExcitable Me.
Subdued Me can be powerful and that trustthing for me is an
This is the way that I am to be today andI will deliver this message and it is
(04:58):
meant to be this for a reason.
So we're going with it.
Welcome to episode four.
So here's what I want to do today is Iwant to provide examples of what the heck
I mean when I say that we are valid and wemake sense.
(05:19):
These are the two things that I hear mostabout related to questioning our value.
The first is whenever we feel anxious, wefeel worried about something and how that
sounds is, I shouldn't feel so worried.
If this was meant for me, I would beexcited.
(05:41):
If this was meant for me, I wouldn't feelscared.
If I actually had confidence, I wouldn'tbe anxious.
Okay, that's just a no.
And I promise I'll explain why.
The other one is procrastination.
Ooh, even when I say it, we're y 'alllike, yes, that's the worst.
(06:02):
And a lot of times procrastination islinked with laziness, which in, I will
say, some of your brains and somecultures, it's probably.
of the worst words that you could callsomeone lazy.
And so we're going to talk about that onetoo.
But before we go into both of those, let'stalk about our...
(06:27):
I love that I told y 'all that I wassubdued except for now I'm getting
excited.
So you know what?
Talk about emotions.
Did y 'all know?
So there is research just randomly becausethis is the stuff that's in our brain that
if we allow an emotion to be, and I willsay that depending on the research, the
timeframe changes, but the least amountthat I've seen is that if we allow the
(06:50):
emotion to be, it works through our bodywithin 90 seconds.
Now I will say sometimes that feels reallyfast, but think about all the times that
we will re -trigger that emotion based onus making ourselves wrong and shaming us
(07:11):
and shaming ourselves into believing thatwe shouldn't feel that certain way.
Okay.
That was my tangent.
Let's go into the nervous system.
So we have this thing called a nervoussystem.
And our nervous system's number one job isto keep us safe.
(07:32):
Let me repeat that.
Our nervous system's number one job is tokeep us safe.
Now here in the Western world, we haveidealized our brain.
And we have created this separationbetween brain and body.
(07:55):
Now, I get it.
They're all linked.
But for the purpose of this analogy, Iwant you to think about it this way.
We tend to think that our brain controlseverything, that the way that
communication is, is top down.
Our brain thinks it, and then it sendsmessages down, and then our body does it.
(08:16):
However, this is flawed.
And how do we know this?
Y 'all, if that was the case, you would beable to think yourselves into doing a lot
of things that we are not actually able todo.
If we are in the midst of a panic attackand no amount of thinking, I shouldn't be
(08:36):
in this panic attack.
Okay, just stop, stop the panic attack.
Just stop, just stop, just stop.
It's going to stop the panic attack.
Similarly, using procrastination.
I know your brains have tried to tellyourselves, let's not procrastinate.
We're not gonna procrastinate right now.
This is ridiculous.
Why are we putting this thing off one moretime?
(08:57):
the way that the communication happened,our body was always top down and top had
control over our body, we won'tprocrastinate as much.
So what research actually showcases isthat 80 % of the communication is actually
body to brain, and only 20 % is brain tobody.
(09:20):
Also, that part of our nervous system hashad a lot more time to develop than our
frontal cortex.
So I'm just gonna put that
Another thing that is important to knowabout our nervous system is that our
nervous system communicates in our bodies.
It communicates via emotions and feelings.
It does not communicate with language.
(09:42):
So it has us feel things.
One feeling is anxiety.
Now anxiety is an emotion that signalsdanger.
There is a purpose to this thing calledanxiety.
It is like, dude, there is a threat.
We think there might be danger here.
(10:05):
And so it's going to start a stressresponse in our nervous system to have us
survive.
It wants us to stay living.
And so it's going to do...
one of four things and I'm sure you allhave heard of this already but it's fight,
flight, freeze, or fawn.
(10:25):
It's going to do one of those things.
Again, your body is going to react to thethreat in a certain way.
Now, what's even more important to note isthat this is in our DNA.
We come from humans who have amazingspidey anxiety senses.
(10:48):
How do I know?
Because they're the ones who freakingsurvived.
So let's go back in time to humanancestry.
So our ancestors are hunting and they hearsomething.
in the bushes.
Now, those with a keen sense of anxiety,those who are able to sense danger and
(11:14):
threats really well, have over timerealized that rustle means saber -tooth
tiger or anaconda.
And they react appropriately to eithersave their lives or kill the thing, right?
So they can fight, they can flee.
Some of them may freeze if you're apossum, right?
And you're freezing and that saves yourlife and you play dead.
(11:37):
Or you fawn, you people, people please atthat point as a saber tooth tiger, but you
try to appease, right?
If you're in front of a bear, it's okay,mama bear.
You do whatever you do.
We're gonna appease you, we're gonna makeyou happy, and we're gonna walk away.
We do not want your cubs.
Can y 'all see that the ancestors who hadthis emotion and used it well, then
(12:02):
procreated.
And then there's us.
I shouldn't feel anxious.
I'm like, are you kidding me?
We've got master spidey senses in thisanxiety realm.
Again, it is just in our DNA.
You're welcome in an effort to keep usalive.
(12:26):
Now here's where it becomes problematic isnow in our modern age.
We can't tell the difference in our bodyas in our nervous system doesn't know, is
this anaconda or is this an email from myboss?
Is this saber tooth tiger or is this atext from my ex?
(12:48):
for both of those we register in ourbrains we think shit threat this may be a
threat and when we feel that again ourbody is going my gosh anxiety that that
means danger let's elicit the stressresponse to make sure that we survive this
(13:08):
thing.
Can y 'all see that this is as our bodiesare designed?
There is nothing wrong here.
Our bodies are designed this way as aprotective force to keep us alive as well
as it can.
And if y 'all are here watching orlistening to me, can y 'all see that it
(13:33):
has worked up until this point?
Yay, I am so glad.
because it allows us to be togetheramongst other amazing things, I'm sure.
So can you see that anxiety is not a badand wrong emotion?
It is a natural response to threat anddanger.
It is a natural response for us in ourlives.
(13:54):
It is appropriate.
I repeat, you are not flawed because youfeel this thing called anxiety.
You are not flawed because you are anxiousabout an email or a text or about a new
job or trying something new.
Again, your nervous system's number onejob is to keep us safe.
(14:18):
And it utilizes this emotion calledanxiety to signal danger and a threat to
then cope with that thing in hopes ofsurviving.
Now what happens though?
when it actually stops us from doing thethings that we know we want to be doing.
(14:43):
Because yes, anxiety is an emotion andyes, it can pass through us, but how do we
have that pass through us quickly?
And again, not stop us from the thingsthat we know are meaningful to us, things
that we know are going to elevate us andit's the thing that we actually want to
try to do.
(15:04):
even if it's scary.
So what's an example of this?
An example could be you finally got thatjob that you've been going for and you're
really excited for it.
Or you get into that school that youreally wanted to do and you're about to go
into the first lab or the first class andyou feel trepidation.
(15:29):
You feel anxious.
Now, one way that we tend to interpretthat in our society based on the messaging
is, shit, this job must not be the job forme because I'm feeling anxious about this
job.
I thought I was supposed to feel calm andexcited and loving and all these amazing
(15:54):
things all the time about this job that Ihave never done before.
So can y 'all see that when anything isnew, when we are doing anything new in our
lives, can you see that that could beperceived as a threat?
Why?
(16:15):
Because our nervous system fundamentallydoes not know, am I going to survive this
thing?
Are we gonna survive here?
I know you say you want this job, butwe've never done this job before.
So ding ding ding ding ding!
Is this the red flag?
Is this a threat?
Is this danger?
Do we need to flee?
that is automatically going to show up.
(16:38):
And one way of reacting to this is, thereyou are, anxiety.
Thank you so much for protecting me.
my gosh,
it is important for me to mention herethat when we are talking about anxiety on
this podcast, I am referring to mild,maybe a little bit into moderate, but mild
(16:59):
anxiety, meaning that we can function inour daily lives.
I am not referring to debilitating andsevere anxiety here.
If you do have severe or debilitatinganxiety, health professionals are there to
support you or around to support you.
And if you are struggling to find somebodyto support you, please reach out to me.
(17:23):
I have many, many, many, many contacts.
Okay.
So in these cases, we're talking aboutmild anxiety.
So you may be feeling mild anxiety becauseyou're about to go do a new thing.
And anytime we start something new, ournervous system registers that as a
(17:43):
possible danger and anxiety will show upthat emotion as a way of protecting us.
So we get to say, thank you so much forprotecting me.
I got it here.
This is actually what's going to move usforward.
This is actually something that I want totry and I know that it's going to feel
(18:07):
stressful.
I know that I'm going to feel nervous, butI got us.
And you keep going.
I feel like it's so important to mentionnow too, because so many of y 'all talk to
me about building confidence.
And you think that if you choose, and allof us do, again, nothing wrong with this.
It's sort of perpetuated in the media, iswe think that if we find the thing that
(18:31):
we're supposed to be doing the rest of ourlives, it's going to feel amazing all the
time.
that we're going to feel confident andmotivated at that thing, even though it's
new.
So for example, let's say you've knownthat you wanna be a public speaker, you
wanna be on stages, you wanna do a TedTalk, that is what you want to do.
(18:56):
However, you have never done it beforeyet.
you will absolutely 99 % of the time feelnervous getting up on that stage.
You are not going to feel confident untilyour body can register, we are safe here.
(19:19):
So what does it take to get up on thatstage and start building this speaker
career of yours?
It means getting on the stage nervous,having anxiety show up and say, dude, we
have never gone on a stage this bigbefore.
Is this a saber -tooth tiger?
And you get to say, no, no, no, not saber-tooth tiger.
(19:40):
We're actually good here.
This is what we want to do.
We're gonna get on this stage.
Once you complete your talk, once youspeak on that stage and you get that's
when your body registers, we're stillalive.
Yay!
And as you continue to do that, as thatbecomes the norm, your body then realizes,
(20:09):
this thing called talking on stages, yeah,we got this.
We don't die from this.
We're not threatened by this thinganymore.
And that's when you start to feel theconfidence.
That's when you start to not feel nervousanymore.
But let me just also put out there thatBeyonce Ms.
(20:29):
Sasha Fierce, she says she still getsnervous about before getting on a stage,
and yet she still does the thing.
That is the magic that is us.
Ding!
So let me reiterate, just because you feelanxiety for this job that you've been
(20:52):
vying for for years, for this school thatyou just got into and you know you want to
go to, for trying something new that youhave never done before, this thing called
anxiousness is gonna show up.
Thank you so much for trying to protectme.
(21:13):
Sometimes I really do legit picture abodyguard.
And I think, okay, thank you, thank you.
Love you so much.
I know you are going full force right now.
You think that we are major in danger.
And we're gonna try it.
I promise, I'm gonna try it and then I'mgonna let you hold me for a little
Lots of times I gotta shake it out.
(21:35):
Lots of times you'll see me shaking beforesomething big that I do.
And then we go and then we take care ofourselves afterwards.
It does not mean that you are not meant todo the thing.
We do have agency here.
So how does this relate toprocrastination?
Well, let me tell you.
So there are a variety.
(21:56):
There are many, many, many reasons that weprocrastinate.
But what I tend to hear is always that itis bad from people, right?
Or we experience it as like, my gosh, howdare I procrastinate?
I am stupid and worthless and ridiculousand I'm not smart and I can't do anything
(22:17):
with my life ever again because I can'tget over this procrastination.
Why can't I just study for this test orwrite this dang email that I've been
putting off for three months or I wassupposed to get shoes seven months ago and
I still haven't done it or this paper.
I always tell myself that I'm gonna writethese papers as soon as I find out but
here I am in finals week and I still havewritten none.
(22:43):
First of all, y 'all, that's most humanbeings.
And what if there was an amazingly awesomereason that we are procrastinating?
What if we could unshame this thing calledprocrastination for ourselves so that we
can not only start to understand ourselvesa bit better, but we could get a sense of,
(23:07):
this is why I'm procrastinating.
and you can actually validate foryourself, do I actually want to continue
procrastinating and not do this thing?
Does procrastination actually work for mein this sense?
Or do I want to go do the thing?
I'm actually putting this thing off for areason that I don't agree with.
(23:32):
Let me explain.
So when we were talking about stressresponse,
Whenever we signal threat, our body willgo into a stress response cycle.
and those include fight, flight, freeze,or fawn.
So let's go over each of those.
Procrastination can actually be a symptomof each one of these things.
(23:58):
How?
So let's take flight, right?
We're fleeing.
What does that mean?
It means we are trying to escape andavoid.
So an example of this for me is taxesEvery year I say I'm going to manage my
taxes and have a date with my money everysingle week every single month So come tax
season.
(24:18):
It's gonna be so easy y 'all.
I have not once done that
Every tax season, I am filled withprocrastination.
I wait and I wait and I wait.
And what am I avoiding?
I am avoiding looking at my finances andthe uncomfortable, nasty feelings that I
(24:40):
have about how I did not do it goodenough.
I should have known better.
I should have invested better.
I should not have purchased that program.
I should have all these things that all ofthese ways that
I start proving to myself via doing taxesthat I am not good enough, I avoid and I
(25:03):
put it off.
can y 'all see that it actually makessense for me to want to avoid belittling
and bullying myself?
Like that doesn't feel good.
like those feelings.
I don't like looking in a mirror andfacing those feelings.
I don't like rethinking all of thesechoices all of these ways that I could
(25:25):
have done things better.
And of course, there are ways for me toget out of it and to make it all good.
Yes, but can in for the purpose of thisconversation.
Of course, I want to avoid that.
And so I procrastinate.
until I actually have a say over how Italk about this or how I experience this
(25:45):
or how I do taxes.
And then I go do the thing.
Now let's talk about procrastination as afreeze response.
So freeze, think about shutting down.
When we numb ourselves, when wedisassociate, a lot of times that could be
scrolling on a phone.
Sometimes we are procrastinating becausewe are in full shutdown mode.
(26:08):
What comes to mind here is burnout.
we have worked so hard that we are now solow energy that we have got to do only the
minimal tasks in order to survive.
So can you see that in that realm, ifyou're procrastinating a 30 page paper
(26:29):
because you can barely handle makingyourself food at night, again, that makes
logical sense.
your body's gonna be like, in order tosurvive, we need to eat.
So with whatever energy we have left, withwhatever capacity we still have, let's
(26:51):
feed ourselves, which means, yeah, that 30page papers, that's to the side.
Priority level down.
That email that I said I was gonna writethree months ago, eating?
Email.
Perhaps we eat.
Now let's go to fight because fight makesme very happy oftentimes.
(27:13):
Because a lot of times we're actuallygonna notice that we're procrastinating to
defend ourselves against something that wedeem as exploitative or not right or
ethically incorrect.
And we don't actually validate that andpat ourselves on the back.
Instead, we tend to make ourselves wrongfor this thing called procrastination when
(27:37):
actually our whole body is like, we'regonna revolt against somebody that's
trying to mistreat us.
So think about the workplace.
Let's say somebody told you, you have todo this report, And that's the thing that
you've been procrastinating.
But the context of this is that,
(27:59):
You actually wrote the dang report.
You put it on your boss's desk.
except for your colleague pretended thatit was from them and your boss believed
your colleague.
So your boss thought that that report thatyou wrote, your colleague did, they got
accolades and now your boss is tellingyou, you need to write me a new report.
(28:23):
I never got the first one that you wrote.
Can y 'all see that that's a huge F -U?
That is a huge, like, if you areprocrastinating that thing, valid.
Should we do another?
Why, sure, let's do another.
(28:44):
Ooh, let's pick a juicy one like going tocollege right after high school and
knowing that you need to pay for ityourself and get financial aid.
How many of you at that point are unclearabout what you want to do as a job or
(29:05):
several jobs?
And yet there is this pressure to gohundreds of thousands of dollars in debt
for a corporate America that may or maynot hire you.
a company that may or may not pay you asurvivable wage, a living wage.
(29:28):
for a company that may not pay you enoughto be able to pay back your student loan
debt.
Let alone thrive in this economy.
And yet we berate ourselves and we makeourselves wrong for saying, hold on, let's
procrastinate here.
What if I held off college for one or twoor five or 20 years until it actually
(29:55):
feels like a choice that serves me becauseI know that that's the next right step and
the money and the finances and all of thatseem to work out.
or those things are worth it for me to gofor that thing.
Can you all see that procrastinating herecan actually be you standing up against
(30:19):
your own exploitation?
That's pretty gnarly!
Last one, fawning.
fawning is probably the one that is theleast well known and fawning is the people
pleasing.
Y 'all, I fall a lot into the fawning.
It's the people pleasing, it's theappeasing, it's the catering to others
(30:44):
needs.
Perhaps you are procrastinating becauseYou are feeling like you want to appease
or you're catering to other people's needsat the detriment of your own.
And so your body is having this genius wayof like, we're not doing that.
(31:04):
needs first above our own when we'vealready done that for 20, 30, 40 years.
Right now, we're gonna sit our ass downand we're gonna take care of ourselves.
I just realized I did that today.
Today, I'm gonna go and get myself a dangpedicure and I'm going to procrastinate
(31:27):
recording this podcast.
until I feel better.
But guess what y 'all, in this scenario,I'm actually recording the podcast.
If I didn't go do that thing, if I didn'tactually procrastinate and serve myself
first, there is a high likelihood thatthis would not have happened today.
(31:51):
And then what?
And then I'm breaking...
A commitment that I had to myself to dothis.
And sometimes for me, it's important forme to recommit and that's totally fine.
But today it feels really good to do itthe way that I did to honor the
procrastination, to honor that I wastotally in a triggering stress response
(32:18):
cycle, to do what I needed to do to closethat cycle.
So now I can be here present with y 'all.
I love that that was the example that justshowed up.
Can y 'all see that these so -callednegative things that we do, as in anxiety
(32:38):
and procrastination, can actually be somephenomenal things that we do if we look at
it from a different perspective.
I of the reasons that perspective shiftsis so powerful.
is that when we can start to understand,my gosh, this is what my body is doing.
It's just trying to keep me safe.
(32:59):
my gosh, I'm procrastinating because Idon't want to accept my own mistreatment
anymore.
And my body recognizes it.
My brain's just a little slow right now,but it's caught up now.
It's caught up.
Thank you very much.
And once we have that knowledge base, oncewe have that data,
Once we can start to understand ourselvesa little bit more, can then start to build
(33:23):
the trust and the confidence that we havein making choices from there?
And it makes it so much easier.
So if worry or anxiety or nervousnessshows up, you can ask yourself, what am I
afraid of here?
(33:44):
What am I worried is going to happen?
And once you have the answer to that, youcan then make a choice on moving forward
and doing the thing or not doing thething.
And there's no label on one being betterthan the other.
It really is what serves you best and whatyou're trying to accomplish.
(34:09):
for example, for me, what does that looklike in my personal life is the people
pleasing has been showing up and what I amafraid of or what scares me is people's
upset and rage.
And that is from when I was little y 'all.
This is like a childhood trigger thatshows up then I go down this spiral of.
(34:32):
I'm not enough.
No matter how hard I tried, I can'tappease them.
I'm not enough.
For me, people pleasing sometimes lookslike the freeze and the shutdown.
I will shut up.
I won't do the thing.
I basically disassociate and I becomequiet and numb.
That is actually a signal now for me whenI do those things of, my gosh, this is me
(35:00):
trying to appease.
And when this thing happens and I'm tryingto appease these people, I shut down and I
shut up.
Now as a kid, that survival tactic, thatway of coping made so much sense.
I needed to make sure that I had a roofover my head
But now what's important to me is when Ifeel like I am being mistreated or
(35:24):
disrespected, my new commitment to myselfis to stand up for myself.
And because that's what's important to me,I then know what actions to take when the
signals show up,
They are amazing signals for me to if I amcapable right now, I'm gonna stand up for
(35:44):
myself.
and when you're procrastinating, you canactually ask yourself, why am I
procrastinating?
and you can use freeze, flight, fight, andfawn as four questions to ask yourself.
Am I fighting something right now?
Am I fleeing something and trying toavoid?
(36:04):
Am I fawning?
Right now, am I trying to appease?
Am I trying to just cater to somebody?
Is that what is happening here?
Or am I freezing?
Are those the reasons that I'mprocrastinating?
Now they may very well be, and they may befor another reason.
But the point is the reason behind yourprocrastination is not a negative.
(36:29):
Even though we've been taught it's beennegative all our lives.
Today, we get to think about itdifferently.
And we get to actually validate that sidetoo.
Alright, I guess we'll end here.
Thank you so much for being here with me.
(36:50):
Thank you for being amazing human beings.
Thank you so much for taking the time outof your day to listen and I hope that it
was useful to you in some way.
I hope that me subdued today and showingup this way however I was going to show up
was a value add in your life.
(37:12):
So thank you again for being here and I'llsee you next time.
I realize that we are at the beginning ofour podcasting journey together.
However, if you are already excited,already wanting to share this with people
in your lives, already thinking that itwould be beneficial to have these
(37:36):
conversations on a more global scale,there are ways that you could support
that.
The main ways is to like...
follow and subscribe on which everplatform you are watching or listening to
me on.
You could always comment.
I would love to know what you foundhelpful or interesting in any of the
(37:57):
episodes.
And of course, if you have ideas aboutwhat conversations, what topics you would
like to cover in the future, please let meknow.
Again, this podcast is for you.
Other ways that you can find me are onsocial.
So I am on Instagram, TikTok and Facebookat Cielle Amundson.
(38:19):
That is at C I E L L E A M U N D S O N.
Find me there, say hi, let's start aconversation.
And if this is something that you thinkother people in your lives would love to
be a part of, would love to hear, wouldlove to be in conversation with,
(38:39):
please share this with them.
Thank you again and I look forward toseeing you or having you at the next
episode.
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