#1 - Luc Rochereau: General Director of Marco Valente on How Emotional Connections Shape the Essence of Luxury - Future of Luxury with Dr. Daniel Langer

Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
So it's a huge honor to have,
for our first Futureof Luxury podcast,
Luc Rocherio with me today.
And, you know, beforewe start our discussion,
I have to say that,
when I thought who do I wantto invite for our premiere,
The first person, Luke,that came to mind, was you.

(00:29):
And, you know, weboth share an immense,
I would say, passion and pleasurearound the topic of luxury.
I remember our very first,
I think it was even a Zoom call,
the very first time we hada one on one, call, which was,
I think, meant to be,
kind of thirty minuteget to know each other.
I think ended up being almostlike a three hour conversation.

(00:52):
And then I also rememberedbecause, you know,
these kind of thingstypically don't really happen,
but when theyhappen, then to me,
it's always an indicatorthat, you know,
we were supposed to to meet.
So Luke and Iwere, we met after,
a master class I did,
on on luxury for forthe Richemont group.

(01:12):
And, afterwards, Luc,messaged me and said,
let's have a quick conversation.
And so I waspreparing, as I said,
for this thirty minute call,and I think we talked probably,
like, three hours.
And after the three hours,I think you said, oh,
we should meet weshould meet one day.
Let me know when you arein Switzerland next time.

(01:33):
And I think thiswas on a Friday,
and I was about to actually head tothe airport to fly to Switzerland.
And then I think two orthree days later, we met,
in in Zurich, continuedour conversation.
You gave me, a bitof an insight into,
the IWC flagship storeon Bahnhofstrasse,

(01:55):
and then we had awonderful dinner.
And this was basicallythe start of not just,
a professional relationshipbut really a friendship.
And so, again, very, very,
big welcome to you and I'msuper happy to have you,
in my podcast today.
Thank you, Daniel.Yes, yes, indeed.
Which was,

(02:16):
it was a good connectionon the first time, and,
it lasts for forseveral minutes.
And then the the coincidence,
was that the next day orthe next second day when in
Switzerland and inZurich, So, where I was,
I'm based at that time and,
so we had a verygood meeting and,

(02:36):
we can have a bigexchange on the luxury
industry and, what wasspecific about Zurich.
Yeah.
And, you know, forme, and, you know,
in a moment maybe go alittle bit deeper on,
describing yourself.
But what to me,
has always been something thatfascinated me on, you know,
your your career andalso your your life is,

(02:59):
that you're a truecitizen of the world.
You know, you, lived, I think,in so many different places,
including Paris, London.
You lived in Moscowand Dubai, and,
you know, traveled the world.
And I think your entirecareer was was, you know,
in differentcategories on luxury.
Maybe tell us a little bitabout your your career and,

(03:23):
how you got where youget to went today.
It was a pleasure.
Actually, this, this enter in theluxury world is thanks to my childhood.
I had a veryinternational childhood.
I was born in Africa.
I grew up in the West Indiesin the Caribbeans and in the South
Pacific.
As well as my cricket, my golf,
and to chev a ship because you neverin life in life what's what's going on.

(03:43):
But, it gave me the test of,international business and,
and, to meet everybody,to talk to everybody, to
eat every kind of gastronomy,of course, and and and drinks.
And, luxury was a an a natural
choice because I have astrong appetite also for,

(04:06):
artistic, artistic,
design and and and culture.
And, I did, in nineteen ninetyone, the first dedicated,
luxury MBA sponsoredby Cartier in Paris.
I was fortunate to be, tobe enrolled in that MBA.
And, at that time, it was, theMBA was launched by Cartier.

(04:28):
So it was launched by misterAlain Dominique Perrin,
who was the CEO of Cartier,and Michel Gutin, who was,
the international chiefcommercial officer.
And, I had the the chanceto meet at that time.
I'm a mister JeanLouis de Mermes,
who is was the CEO ofHermes at that time.
Mister Pierre Bergey wasthe University of Saint Laurent.

(04:49):
Mister was the CEO of Brigitte.
It was still a familyowned business.
And, and and many alsoartisans, you know,
who explained us to the thevalue of craftsmanship in the
in different field of of luxury.
And then I entered my,
my career in the in cosmeticsand then perfumer industry.
I moved on on fine jewelryon, on crystal with the,

(05:12):
the Zworsky groupfor four years.
And I, I traveled all aroundthe world. As you said, hey.
The fine jewelry,
I was traveling three weeksper month worldwide in every market
to meet distributors,agents, or big retailers.
And then I, after the Zworsky Group,I even did some, private equity.

(05:33):
I joined also after theRichemont Group for twelve
years, and my last role wasmanaging director for Europe,
Middle East, India, Africa,and LatAm for IWC Schaffhausen,
a fantastic autologie,
brand and and and manufacturer.
And recently, I joined a a highjewelry brand based in Milan
called Marco Valentehigh jewelry, and,

(05:57):
it's a a brand that was createdin an nineteen fifty three.
And, we are relaunching the brandon the high jewelry segment,
around the world.
And, so I did all my careerin in in in luxury goods
and and and differentindustry in this luxury goods.
Mhmm. Wonderful.
And this maybe, you know, leadsme to my my first question.

(06:19):
It's the question that I get,I would say, probably most often.
And, I'm curious, you know,
what how you would define itand what your thoughts are.
But the first question iswhat is luxury for you?
What what does the term mean?
Because, you know,it's so overused.
Everyone has maybe a different,
different opinion on what it is.
So what does it mean for you?

(06:40):
Well, you know, sinceI, I, started my career,
I use always thesame definition,
and it's always working.
For me, luxury is basedon on four pillars,
always those four pillars.
The first one is the the exceptionalquality of the raw material.
So you have to use the thethe best gold that you can find if

(07:01):
you're working withgold or or leather or,
elements if you'reworking in in gastronomy.
The second pillar isthe craftsmanship.
So, for example, in autologery,
you have to to getthe best watchmakers,
the best goldsmithsin fine jewelry,
the best the best cooker, thebest chef in in in gastronomy,

(07:23):
for example, or orin leather goods.
People will shoe thethe leather, you know,
at the perfection, like peoplefrom Hermes are doing so well.
The third pillar willbe, a real history,
not just a marketing concept,
but a real historywith strong values
for the maison, themanufacturer, the brand.

(07:46):
And, actually, it can be a oldmaison or a new one because,
you have to remember that everyold maison was new at once.
So, but you need to have a very,
very strong story,and you have to
to to to to to to be focused onyour your stories and your values.
And the the fourth pillar is,

(08:07):
an exclusivity because you'renot in mass production.
So because you are youhave craftsmanship,
you're not in massproduction, so,
you need a certain exclusivity.
It's if you're going to mass,
then you're you're competing againthe the mass market and the volume.
So it's for me,it's not anymore,

(08:28):
you a definition of luxury.
You may be premium,on your market,
but but not totally luxury.
And all those four pillars,
they should they should work togetherto create what I call an emotional,
an an an emotionalkey to to the client,

(08:48):
that, will, trigger thethe the willingness,
to to purchase youryour product or your service.
By the way, this definition applyalso to luxury of service like hotel
industry or orhospitality industry.
Yeah.
I love this definition,and I love how you
kind of summarizeit into the idea of

(09:10):
the emotional key.
Because I think toto me, you know,
when we think about luxuryand creating desirability,
it is not a purchase thatis, that is purely rational.
There can be some rationalaspects to it depending on the
product category and so on.
But fundamentally, when we buyluxury, we buy luxury because,

(09:31):
you know, we fall inlove with a brand.
And if we fall inlove with a brand,
then there has to bean emotional response.
So I I really like thisidea of the emotional key.
And I also reallylike, you know,
what you said that a brandhas to have real history.
But you you used the wordthat I think is very important when
you said, you know, it can bean old history, a new history,

(09:53):
but that therehas to be a story.
And maybe let's discuss thisa little bit, more in detail.
Because to to me, you know,
as you know fromall our discussions,
the brand storytelling isso critical for for brands.
And this is where I see inreality today many brands
struggling because sometimesthey just use history as

(10:16):
something like abstract.
You know, they say, oh,we have two hundred years.
Or we are from, I don't know,Paris or Milan or London.
And so we are now a two hundredyears old company from from
London.
And I always like to say,
this is not enough because thisdoesn't give us as a customer
really, like, somethingtangible, like an emotion for it.

(10:38):
So, let's discuss alittle bit stories.
What are kind of interestingstories maybe that in in in luxury?
Or how how can a brand reallycreate this this authentic story?
You know, you you, mostof the brands now, Maison,
they they startedvery small through,

(10:58):
the the the creation and thewillingness of an artisan,
if I'm talking about, articles.
Yeah.
I don't like so much the wordabout products because products
is a it's somethingthat you consume,
and and and article issomething that will last in in
in your life or or yourmemory, very strongly.

(11:18):
And I prefer to talk aboutclients and not consumers
because you don'tconsume luxury.
Luxury normally is somethingthat you don't need to leave,
to to to even to to survive.
It's not,
it's not something that your youryour your your life is based on.
But it's it's it's it'ssomething that trigger you,

(11:40):
that will that will,tickle your your emotions because,
like, every brand has aDNA, every client has a DNA.
So the the the game is foreach brand and each maison,
to understand the DNA of yourclient or your prospect or your
your future client to knowwhere to, to pull the,

(12:02):
emotional what I call theemotional key between the two
DNA.
Because if a clientis interested
only in design and in colors,
you don't need to talk tohim about the quality of,
you know, manufacturingand craftsmanship and,
so many young sales ambassadorsin different boutiques.

(12:22):
They are so proud to give thespeech of the brand on the
without knowing,who are they talking
to and why the client is,
in your boutique boutiquein front of them.
So it's very important toto touch the emotion of a
of a client, but you haveto to know in his DNA
what is very closefrom your own DNA.

(12:43):
So if the client is has adifferent specificities of his
DNA, which is commonfrom your own DNA,
then it's it's very easy.
You don't have to to to to pushtoo much to to be able to to
have a a commercialrelationship.
But,
you you need to know.
It's very important for eachbrand and each maison before to

(13:04):
address to the to theseclients, directly.
But to know your clients soyou you you need a lot of time,
and you need to take thetime to know your client before to
to to speak to them.
And to to to speak to them,
it's it's to havea conversation.
So before you know,
it's it's the same in life when youstart a conversation with somebody,

(13:25):
but you need to know the moreyou know the person in front of
you, the more yourconversation will be,
richer and richer and then,then better and better.
So, it's the same in acommercial relationship,
especially on the on theluxury industry where at ninety
nine percent, the the decisionto to buy an article or a

(13:47):
service of luxury is basedon pure emotions, pure emotions.
So that's where also emotionalintelligence is a has
a strong, strongerrole to play in the in
the especially in the exchangebetween a sales ambassador,
for example, and a and a client.
I remember, Luke, oneof our last discussions,

(14:09):
you told me that, thedifference between
a salesperson who is able to unlockthis emotional key or, you know,
to tap into this emotional keyand a person salesperson who
who doesn't have this abilityis quite dramatic in terms of
sales and sales result.
So can you elaborate a littlebit on your experience there

(14:31):
between, let's say, topsalespeople and how they do that?
And, you know, maybe the averagesalespeople or someone who's who's maybe,
you know, either nottrained yet right or,
is not able to to unlock.
So how does unlockingthis key work,
and what is in yourexperience the difference between someone
that is really excellent in this andsomeone who is maybe more mediocre?

(14:53):
My, the first,
I would say the the the whenyou want to to to give a
ranking to to salespeople and,at every level, by the way,
it's when you go to a to aboutique and you you you you
start a conversation withthe sales ambassador,
and you will see immediately
if a sales ambassadorpropose you, you know,

(15:15):
if you go to a a watchboutique that I know very well,
if you just propose you,
two or three watches and justtell you describe you what you
can see with your own eyes.
So if they say, okay.
This is a red dial with a,
a blue strap andwith a chronograph,
but thank you very much.
But I can see itwith my own eyes.
So there is no emotionsthat you can you can pass

(15:38):
through to to your clients.
So, the the thewe know that in in
the art of selling,the the first part,
it's the discoverphase of your client.
You have to know whyhe's in the boutique,
if he knows the brand.
So if he knows thebrand, yes or no.
If he knows the brand,how do you know the brand?
Maybe, you have a car. Ihave two watches already.
You have a collection.
Which which watch do youhave, etcetera, etcetera,

(16:00):
then you can explore.
If he doesn't know the brand,you don't know the brand,
do you know that this brand wascreated by blah blah blah, etcetera?
You can start the the story.
And, are you here ona on a on a visit?
I don't know if theboutique is in in Dubai.
You one of the first questionyou have to ask if you're in
Dubai, for how longare you in Dubai?
Are you in Dubai forone day or a week?

(16:21):
So you we have timefor the conversation.
You have to know thisthis kind of information.
But,
you have to talk to your clientand to ask a lot of question to
know your client.
So you have to listen to listento your client and to ask
question to know where where togo and which direction, to take.
If a lady is comingwith a lot of shopping,

(16:42):
bag, you know, with differentbrands, but she love brands,
so you will talkabout the brand.
You will not talk about thethe the complexity of the
tourbillon, of thewatch, etcetera.
If, if a gentleman iscoming and say, oh,
I visited this museum, thisexhibition, it's fantastic.
He's very keen onart, design, etcetera,
so you will you will emphasize thispart of your of your of your article.

(17:06):
You you really have to knowyour client and and to to
trigger the the emotion.
We exchange a lot.
I, told you that one of my best,
expanding life was when I was,
I had a a dinner withsome clients and prospect,
and and my teamtold me, yeah, Luke,
a very importantprospect, will will come.
He's CEO of a bank.
Yeah, there we had a very finedinner, gastronomic dinner,

(17:29):
and I said, okay.
I take the challenge.
Please, I would liketo be sitting near him,
and he came in jeans, you know,
Apollo short sleeveswith a plastic, watch,
and I was supposedto sell him a watch,
above one hundred thousand euro.
And and,
and it was a long nightbecause every question I asked,
he was not interested, you know.

(17:49):
We were serving agastronomic dinner.
He asked for Coca Colaand ketchup with his,
with his foie gras, so I wasdesperate from the beginning.
I I said to myself, oh, it'sgonna be a very, very long night.
And after trying everything,you know, fine fine wine,
fine gastronomy, fine cars,you know, travels, arts, opera,
sports, everything,yachts, yachting, whatever,

(18:12):
there was a no nointerest at all at,
and I was in a country whereyou there is a tradition at the
end of the dinner.
When the business is finished,
you can you can talkabout personal matters.
And I say, oh, my my son wasjust born a couple of weeks in
a in a country,
so my relationship with thecountry will be forever.
And suddenly, I sawsparkles in his eyes.
In his eyes, he showed mepictures of all his family,

(18:35):
you know, on hisiPhone and da da da.
And I understand that his only hisonly goal in life was his family.
The only goal in life,
he was working like hell orhas not not many, free time.
And so two weeks after,
invite him and his fivekids to Legoland in Germany.
And then, one week after,
I got a fantastic reward becausehe spent more than one million,

(18:59):
dollar in buying watches forhis family and the the board of
his bank as gifts.
And, and he told me, look,
you you found thethe only thing that,
is important for me inlife, and this is the key.
We have to to find the thethe the the emotion that will,
that will, sparkle in theeyes of, of your your clients.

(19:20):
And for any kind of reason,
every client is is verydifferent from one to another.
Yeah.
This this showsalso that, you know,
when we think I I use veryoften the the the terminology
extreme value creation as aas a proxy to describe luxury.
And why I like it is it almostforces you when when you really

(19:42):
think about the term, it forcesyou to think what creates
extreme value fora specific person,
for a specific human.
You know, because sometimes whenwe define luxury too much on the
object, you know,
it's and it's so easy becausethe object is tangible,
you know, if you take the watch,
then there is, like, hours,

(20:02):
sometimes weeks, months,
years of craftsmanship that goesthat goes in producing that.
So it's kind of, youknow, sweat and tears.
And this is what we as humansit's it's very kind of tangible
in what we are gravitating to.
So so many, I would say,in in sales, as you said,
there is the almost naturaltendency to want to describe

(20:24):
what we already seeas as as you you said.
But fundamentally,
then we we waste the time ofpeople because they can see it
with their own eyes.
And sometimes somehow it'salso not that important.
This is also I think what wasto me very important from what
you just, just said.
You know, when you saidokay maybe if someone goes,
let's take a watchexample, to buy a watch,

(20:44):
and for this person it'sall about the design,
then it doesn't really matter howmany complications, are there.
You know it's a niceadditional information,
but it's not going to be whatwhat creates this emotional bond.
But I love this example thatyou just gave of your client,
where something completelydifferent triggered the emotion.

(21:04):
And it was the connectionwith family and the connection
probably also with seeing you.
And I use maybe the word now,
but seeing you almost as afriend because you were able
to, you know, connect with him,
maybe discover something thatmaybe for the rest of his
life when he went to otherbrands and to other stores no

(21:25):
one actually, you know,
connected on that level withhim or maybe showed him the
appreciation to what isreally important to him.
And then he said, okay, thisis now where I want to connect.
This is, I think,
what is so fascinating to mein luxury that it's that the human
factor is so criticaland so important.
And, you know, we we oftenfocus a lot on the product.

(21:47):
And, you know, you put itin your definition also.
You have to have exceptionalquality of raw material.
You have to havegreat craftsmanship.
So there's, of course,product components.
But if this emotionalcomponent is not there,
then basically all the otherthings are they they I don't
want to say they fall apart,
but they don't matterso much anymore.

(22:07):
No. No. I totallyagree with you.
I I I I am totallyconvinced, and more and more,
by the way, that thetechnology is coming.
We are in a connection business.
We are not in atraffic business.
So the connection with yourbetween the client and and the
brand, so it meansit's representative.
It can be a sales ambassador.
It can be, you know, I don'tknow, the c of the brand.

(22:30):
It can be,
an an ambassador,
a role model.
It can be an actor.
It can be a sportsman.
It it's very important.
So the the we arein a relationship
business model.
So I think thatmore and more we go,
the more and more AI andthe machines are power

(22:53):
are powerful, sorry,
the more and more therelationship the human
relationship will be importantbecause you can be you can be
in, for a product, for example.
You can have the bestlocation for a boutique.
You can have the best brand,the biggest marketing spending,
everything.
If the relationship

(23:14):
between, human being andthe client is a disaster,
every everythingthat you have done,
all your investment thatyou have done as a as a as a
shareholder is, is falling apart
because you have to always rememberso that in this human relationship,

(23:34):
the part of the service isso important so important.
I I love this quotefrom Warren Buffet.
If you remember,
he bought a tie, fifteen yearten or fifteen years ago.
He doesn't even remember the tieor the price of the tie,
but he remembered the exquisitequality of service that he
received at that time.

(23:54):
So the emotion due tothe service that he received,
it's outstanding andwill stay, by the way.
The the service is the theemotion that will stay,
the the the more longer.
So for forever,
I I quote you,
I explained with you an amazing storythat I had a few days ago in Air France.

(24:17):
I didn't fly Air France forfor seven years for different
reason, and then I Iflew again, last month.
I took two flights in in oneday in Europe and on my seat
and I was not in business,and I was in coach.
So on my seat, I had acard, mister Rochefort,
we're very happy to welcomeyou back, blah blah blah, etcetera,
etcetera, because I had aI had a great great car,

(24:40):
but I was flying so much atonce that I had a great car.
And they still have this,so I found this this,
this little,gesture where I was,
I was overwhelmed, youknow. I was, I was nobody.
The the chef, the cabin came.You know? I was in coach.
They have a miniglass of champagne.
Everybody saw that I wasa superstar. I'm not at all.
So but but the quality thequality of service at that

(25:03):
time was was fantastic.
And, of course, I was super touchedand something that I will always
remember, and I can tellyou that I I work in very,
very different industries.
Every time you give that kindof level of service unexpected
to your client,It's so important.
You know, in so manyindustries, we believe,
and it's a a big mistake thata lot of lot of companies are are

(25:26):
doing and still now.
They believe that the theclient is a client when he's
entered the boutique,
and and after he left the boutiqueand he paid and he passed the door.
And then after, weforgot about the client.
We we don't knowthe client before,
and sometimes inmany industries,
we know the client before,
especially in thehotel industry.
We exchange about that.
You know that somebodyis doing a booking,

(25:48):
so you know the profile.
It's it's a fantastic, luck.
You know the profile of yourclient who is coming to your hotel.
So you can you canhave a touch point,
and we're talkingabout touch point now.
So you can have atouch point before,
your client coming to the hotel.
So before the arrival, at the check-in,during the stay, after the stay.

(26:09):
So you can, you canenhance and increase
the emotional relationship withyour client as a as a level
that, that I can tellyou, not a lot of people,
not a lot of companies areare doing at the moment.
And this is this is thewhere you have to invest,
some resources and some humancapacity because when you have

(26:31):
this kind of relationship withyour clients, we follow you,
for forever, for sure.
Represent.
It's fascinating thatyou that you, you know,
bring up now also hospitality.
And we just did a study,
recently where wecould show that,
you know, when how how,

(26:52):
which word should I use?
Maybe how tough it is, so tospeak, to build up loyalty,
especially in the luxury sector.
And I think this also has to dowith what you said before with
the emotion because, youknow, we may also as humans,
we have to kind of trust thatemotion also is repetitive.
So in in non luxury
purchases or experiences,

(27:15):
you actually buildloyalty relatively fast.
You need just a few interactionpoints and people get used to this.
But when it comes to luxury,
to really that someonereally feels loyal,
you need about twenty percentmore effort to and more
interaction points to bringup someone who is loyal.
But now to lose the loyaltyis dramatically faster.

(27:39):
It's like one point aboutone point seven interactions
that are below expectationsand you lose the person.
And I think this iswhat, to your point,
when companies maybedon't emphasize enough on
service where they put themselvesunder a huge vulnerability.

(28:00):
Because for the customer
and a service thatis underwhelming
doesn't mean that it's abad service, so to speak.
It's just on the level.
And for example, II just, you know,
I just came back twodays ago from a long
flight, from from Cape Town.
So I was, twenty fourhours in the air.

(28:21):
It's one one very, very longflight, almost seventeen hours.
And, for example, I was inin business class on one of
the three largestAmerican airlines.
And the the, Iwould describe the
service as okay.
So everything was moreor less as expected.

(28:41):
They were friendly,they were smiling,
there was food, you know.
If I wanted to to get a drink,
then they theyserved me a drink.
So fundamentally, I don't have
anything to complain.
Yeah. I was not beatenup, so to speak.
There was not no one wasrude. So I have nothing to complain.

(29:02):
But nothing was luxury.
Nothing was personalized.
Nothing was where I feltan emotion towards me.
And I remember for examplewalking in the, you know,
on the aisle towards my seat andthen sitting down in my seat.
I took my jacket off, and thenthere was a flight attendant,
you know, a littlebit further away.
And I I kind of wavedand said, okay. You know?

(29:24):
Can you take careof my my jacket?
And then the flight attendantsaid oh I can do this after the
boarding process is over.
And you know this was for melike one of those moments where
they were friendly, theywere not not unfriendly.
But in this moment,it was, you know,
when you just wantto get settled,
you want to maybe get changed,will get get rid of the jacket,

(29:45):
I felt like I'm not important.
I have to wait now untileverything is over.
And I think this isalso what where where,
maybe to build onwhat you were saying,
what in my observationhappens very often in so many
so called luxury experiences,that it's kind of all about
the the, how shouldI say, maybe the,

(30:07):
the process that acompany puts in place.
So in this case, the airlinehas a process that, okay,
let's have firstpeople boarding,
and then we take the jackets,and then we serve the drinks.
But then you don'tget a personalized experience.
Because maybe for sixty percentof the travelers or eighty
percent of the travelers,this may be okay.
But maybe for two or three orfour or ten other travelers

(30:30):
that are in the samein the same area.
This is not okay.
And in normal experiences,we we are okay with averages.
But in luxury, I always feelwe it's always about us.
I I totally agree with you.
And where these,airlines will, will,
fail is that otherairlines are moving,

(30:52):
quite rapidly andimproving their service.
So I would I would suggestto these people from this
airlines, if youcannot talk to them,
go to Asia and and and see thequality of service that you
can or you can have in businessclass in Asian company,
because even on very shortflight, you have a a full,

(31:12):
warm meal, very,
very nice.
They're taking care of youimmediately when you're
boarding the plane.
So competitionalso is very good.
And, and, unfortunately,
when clients are experiencing,that's why you you said,
earlier that loyalty is verydifficult because when you find a new,

(31:35):
when you experience a newquality of service but then you
go to this you move to thisquality of service and you
don't want to comeback to a a a a lower
quality, it's it's Ican tell you at the
so I I as I told you,
I joined a a high anew high jewelry company called Marco
Valente based in Milan.
And then and, we we we are verysuccessful at the moment because we bring

(31:58):
something new on themarket of high jewelry.
Because for for multibrand retailers,
a lot of high jewelrybrand, they left this,
commercial network toopen their own boutique.
And so,
now we are we are bringing this,
this brand, this, high jewelrybrand to the retailers,
and we are able alsobecause we have,

(32:20):
we have this mindset to be veryflexible what the the final
plan side because we aretalking about high jewelry.
We're not talking aboutentry price or or low,
or or volume,
but high jewelry.
So the art of our market is
between twenty andand five hundred
thousand dollars,

(32:42):
for for a piece ofof of high jewelry.
And two weeks ago, I cantell you, I had the experience in,
I was in in Qatar in in Doha,
and a a client wanted the,the sewing ring that we had,
but with a a three carat diamondin servo, two point five.
And in in forty eight hours,we're able to show us the ring,
the ring, the sizewith the stone,

(33:03):
the all the new renderingof the of the, of the ring,
and she was, shewas, overwhelmed.
And because normally in thebig brand, it takes time.
Yes, madame. We will sendyou an email, etcetera, etcetera.
And, and first, we think that if youwant to to be at that level of high
jewelry, of of quality, ofselling diamonds, you know,

(33:24):
it's it's very important.
And, also that we see thata lot of new generation,
the millennials themillennials are, by the way,
up to forty five years old now.
And, generation zed, and whenthey they want to buy diamonds,
they don't have alot of knowledge,
but they want to have theywant to have full transparency.
They want to havefull traceability,

(33:44):
now, and they can have it, with,
all the the social media tools.
And so that's why we provide aGIA certificate for every stone
below zero point four, andwe deliver only the best quality
of diamond, meanings,only the the color DEF,
with with the thethe the the the

(34:04):
best cut proportion andand and and polishing.
So, we really want to to to go,
where all the bigbrands are too big now,
too big to give this highquality of service for for
final clients allover the world.
And here again, I think withthe example that you showed is

(34:28):
it's re it's it's also inin the product, of course,
but again, it's the service.
It's, you know, the speed.It's about the convenience.
It's about the personalization.
It's about, you know,
to kind of make a step towardsthe client and not force the
client in into that.
And, it's fascinating because ifyou look into where brands

(34:51):
also invest very often, Theyoften invest, let's say,
in if you take the totalp and l of a brand.
Of course there'sa lot of marketing,
but then there's alsolet's say the real estate.
You know, the the we spokeabout hospitality, you know,
how a hotel looks like,the airplane interiors.
Or maybe in the case of yourbusiness in high jewelry,

(35:12):
it's the store, thestorefront, and so on,
that everything looks good.
And often there is investments likemillions and millions of dollars.
And all of this, you know,
can can mean nothing in theend if the if the service
component is not there.
If the emotional key is notunlocked, then, you know,
all the investments therebasically are evaporating.

(35:37):
So it's so importantto, you know,
I would say strategize
as a company about,you know, how do you,
how can you deliver thisexceptional service?
But then also enable thethe staff the staff on that?
Exactly. Yeah. It'sa very good question.
You know, when,
the luxury business completelyexplode in the last,

(35:58):
thirty years in nineteenninety one when I did my MBA,
there was no luxury goodscompany listed at any stock
exchange in the world.
Now LVMH is the biggest, value,
but they lost it recently for infront of a pharmaceutical company.
But in Europe, it'sthe the biggest value,
at least in France,it's the biggest value.
Hermes is numbertwo, by the way.
And L'Oreal, which is comp nowconsidered at the luxury value by the

(36:22):
financial guys because morethan fifty percent of its
turnover is donewith luxury perfume.
Those three companies are arenumber number three at the
store kitchen in France.
This is, this is unbelievable.
And, so throughout those years,
there there were many yearswhere the business was booming.
You know, people were queuingqueuing for to buy luxury goods.

(36:43):
So, you you didn't have to sell.
And and and one crisis,happened, that's where you see,
people were able to sellor just were distributors.
And, and to sell isa different mindset.
You have to to to be a hunterin a in a good way, of course,

(37:03):
but you have to know.
And and, and people and clients are arewillingness to they are they are sorry.
They are they are ready to tospend a a a certain budget if
they are very interested andthey are if their emotional key
is, is,
is, trigger.
And, and for because for some

(37:24):
clients those clients,
the the crisis is not the samethat for for middle class people.
So and
so, when you have very,
very good salespeople, firstof all, you know, first of all,
you have to identify them.
You have to keep them, andyou have to motivate them.
And I think one of the thebest motivation, of course,

(37:44):
is is a is a visibilityof vision or how you
can progress within a companybecause you're not going to do
the same job of your life or it dependsif they want to stay on the floor and,
to be there to have thisrelationship with the clients.
You have certain people thatare very good at that And that
just want to be, just want toto to to to stay at that level

(38:05):
of relationshipwith the clients.
But you have to be,
you have to be ready to givethem a very good package
because those people will bringyou the turnover of your company.
And I always, say to a lotof, board people and, and,
top management people,those people should be,
the most rewarded becausethey can they can change your

(38:26):
turnover, and so it shouldbe an and it's a viable cost.
You just have to have a apercentage of your of your of
your of your turnover based onthe on the the bonuses of of
the sweeper, and you can givethem just the sky as the limit.
So it's very important tohave in a for me, in a team,
I I put the scheme very often in teamcalled one plus one equals three.

(38:51):
One is an individual target,
so the other one isa is a team target.
So a team bonus.
And if if you fulfill the two,
then your bonus shouldbe three, not two.
And you need you need aindividual target because like
in every fantasticteam, you have,
you have fantastfantastic players,
and you just have a few in inin soccer in, in in Europe.

(39:12):
You had, ones in Edenzida,
and you you didn'thave eleven in a team.
In basketball, youhave one LeBron James.
You don't have five in a team.
So, this guy, the thethe the star of the team,
should have a fantastic rewardbecause he will bring the whole
team to another level also.
So it's very important toreward in a team the best,

(39:33):
the best players of the teamand to have a but but the best
players of the teamalso should should,
carry the team atthe at the reverse.
That's why you should have individualtarget and and team target.
And if both are fulfilled,
then the bonus shouldbe three and not two.
And this is very important toto to for for these people to

(39:54):
to receive very well packagebecause for a lot of people,
you know, if yousay, what do you do?
I'm a sales consultantin a in a store.
It's not very socially.
So, especially in Europe, it'snot very, not very positive,
but it should be the oppositein the luxury brands.
Those people are key people inthe business model of a of a of
a luxury brand.

(40:15):
Yeah.
I remember conversation with a goodfriend of mine who runs a
very successful hospitality,
company, and he always tellsme that in his point of view,
you almost have to reversethe ox chart of a company and
say the salespeople are on topand everyone else is below.
And he always says, I as the CEO,I'm on the rock bottom, so to speak,

(40:40):
because I don't have really thecustomer contacts every day,
but the sales people have.
And then also enablingthem, empowering them.
Because a lot of companiesspeak about empowerment and
enabling, but thenon the day to day is
actually not the case.
And, you know, the example that youthat you shared before where, you know,

(41:01):
you you had the client and you wereable to find the emotional key,
and then you took a decision toinvite the person for a family
trip to, you know,to to a theme park.
If let's let's assume,
and I think in that roleyou were already, let's say,
leading leading theteam or, you know,
the the the themanaging director for the region.

(41:22):
So naturally you hadmore decision power.
But let's assume now, youhave someone in the store,
and this person now findsan emotional trigger.
And let's say duringa conversation,
and feels this customer couldbe the million dollar customer.
And then in this case, becausenow they have an interaction,

(41:45):
now this person on the storefloor takes the decision
and invites the personto the theme park.
And now goes to theboss and says, you know,
I have this post the personjust walked in, you know,
in jeans and a plastic watch.
What did you describe?
And I think thatthis person could be,
an important prospect.
So I invited him, with hisfamily to a theme park.

(42:08):
If you now have in the, ifI take now this example,
and you now have inthe organization,
a superior
that that basically criticizesthis decision and said,
you know, couldn't didn't whydidn't you speak with me before?
Or, you know, areyou really sure?
And, you know, this thisis a cost, seen as a cost.

(42:29):
Then I can almost guarantee thatin this particular organization,
no one ever in the futureis going to take the word
empowerment serious.
And I think this is alsosomething that as an organization,
organizations have to have towork on is it's so easy to say
we empower our sales people.

(42:49):
It's so easy to say you knowour sales people they have
carte blanche theyshould do and so on.
Because if then as anorganization the foundation is
not there or there is just onebad apple somewhere that says
you should not have done this,
then it becomes immediatelylike a myth within the
organization and peoplewill say okay you know what

(43:10):
if they tell you you'reempowered forget because there
was this example that happenedfive years ago and this person
was reprimanded, you know, thinktwice before you do something.
So this is I thinksomething that where,
the role of the leadership withinan organization is so critical.
And I I see this oftenin service related,

(43:31):
industries like hospitality.
If you take my singlehotel, the in my experience,
the quality of service lives anddies with the general manager.
Not that the general manager isgoing to be the person that the
guest would see all the time,
but if the generalmanager is truly,
how to say, is trulycaring about the customer,

(43:51):
the customer experience,the client experience,
the client experiencewill be great.
And if the cost the thegeneral manager, let's say,
doesn't care at all or isnot basically all over it,
then the client experience willwill fall apart immediately.
But I I totally agree with you.
It's the it's the bigissue with a very,

(44:12):
top down management,
which is,
which I see a lotof time in many,
which I saw a lot of timein in many organization,
especially in luxury.
People think thatat the head office,
they understood everythingabout everything.
So but the the the key is the
relationship with theclient on the market, in,

(44:35):
where you are at five thousand kilometerwhen you are from, the head office.
You don't understand therelationship with your client.
It's a different culture,different client.
You don't know why yourclient is in the boutique.
You don't understand.
Mhmm.
And,
it's it's it's ait's a key point that
you say, especially inthe hospitality industry.
It shouldn't be a culturecoming from one manager,

(44:58):
but should be theculture of the whole,
brand, the wholehotel by itself.
And, and every day, bythe way, as a manager,
and I and I I did somemistakes also in my career,
so I I learned a lot.
Now I ask a lot to the peoplewho are in contact with the
client, what canI do to help you?

(45:19):
What, and and okay. If you haveideas, what are your ideas?
Shoot.
There's no no no stupidideas because you you will be
responsible for the ideas,
and you will manageyour contact with the client.
So if you have a lot ofexperience and you're telling
me that this work, thiswork, then let's do it,
and then we'll see the result.
It's not a question of, yes.

(45:41):
I think it's goodor it's not good.
You have to respect everyideas, every capture,
and I've I will giveyou a a fantastic story,
because I always try toillustrate, you know,
principle by stories.
I remember very famousjewelry brand, in Tokyo.
They hired a new, newsales guy and, you know,

(46:03):
they say, okay, the selling processin our brand is this, this, this.
You have to do step one, steptwo, step three, step four,
step five, and if youdo that, it's good.
And the guy said okay. Hewent to the training. He said okay.
And then three weeks after,
the guy sold the mostexpensive necklace
of the boutique that theynever sold for six years.

(46:26):
Six years they were trying toin three weeks, he sold it.
So everybody was astonished.
And, and, I remember it it it wasa colleague of mine who was in
charge of a Japan market,and he said, okay.
I have to tell you this storybecause it's a fantastic it's a
fantastic lesson.
And he he went to theguy and say, okay.
What what did you do toto sell this necklace?

(46:47):
Okay. What, what part ofthe process of selling?
Which step was the best in yourand the guy said, oh, no. No.
No. No.
I didn't respect at all the processof selling that you you taught me.
And, so but how did you do?
But I say if I if I want tohave a chance to increase
really my bonus, I haveto sell this necklace.
And if I have tosell this necklace,

(47:08):
I have to proposeit to everybody.
Everybody willenter the boutique.
And act actually,
the all the team who wasrespecting the old presenter
was doing the opposite becauseit was the most expensive one.
They thought that ninety ninepercent of the people who are
entering the boutique had no powerpurchase to buy the necklace.

(47:29):
But for him, he he was no. No.
He was new in the company,new in that, business field.
He say, yeah. I have nothingto lose. So every time Yeah.
Every request from a client,he say, oh, by the way,
I show you, ta da da,the this necklace,
which is exquisite,
a resume of the know how and theculture of our brand and blah blah blah.

(47:51):
And then one guyin the three weeks,
I I thought he proposed itto to five hundred people,
and one guy say, ah, fantastic.
I buy it.
And it's a great lesson.
Listen to, to your, salespeople becauseeverybody also has a different style.
Maybe you want to have in place aa selling process and, of course,

(48:13):
you know you know you know haveto have the discovery phase.
You know to you needto know your clients.
You need to but you have to be openminded to new ideas and and why not.
And, and this is, thisis a fantastic story.
Yeah.
And I think here, it's alsoa great story where, again,
the emotional keycomes comes out.
Because if you for example,

(48:34):
I had recently a discussion
during a training thatI did, on on, you know,
how to sell luxury.
And within that organization or
within that, you know,
that framework where thisoperation organization, operated,
so they had they were basicallyalso in multi brand stores.
And in these multi brand stores,

(48:55):
there were differentlevel of prices.
So they had typically inthis kind of environment,
there would be even some itemsor some brands that would not
be considered luxury.
So let's say entry levelitems, and mid level items.
And then you had one or twobrands at the extreme if you
take price points.
So what was the thetypical way how a

(49:17):
salesperson would approach that?
Because now the salespersonwants to get all the traffic in
the store, and they somehow,
maybe also with sometimesnot the right incentives,
basically was saying, okay,I make now a quick sale.
So what did they do?
People walkedwalked in the store,
and then they asked them,what is your budget?
I always like to say this isthe this is the killer question

(49:39):
of all questions because I alsoit's the it's the excel sheet
question, so to speak.
Because when someonesays, what is your budget?
You immediately go fromemotion to rational.
And then the other thing you you dois you put a number in your head.
And if you put anumber in your head,
this number isnow your baseline.
Every every decisionyou will do afterwards,

(50:01):
internally you will comparewith with the numbers.
So if you walk in thestore and, you know,
let's say I want to to buy awatch and the the person asked
me, you know, how much do youwant to spend on a watch today?
I say, let's say,three thousand dollars,
then good luck selling me athirty thousand dollar watch,
if basically I prime myselfnow into into that category.

(50:24):
But I think in in the momentwhen someone, you know,
when someone, as you just said,
comes in and there is, you know,
he he shows him the necklaceand then shows another person,
look this is the brand.
For some person, suddenly itwill trigger an emotion and
a desirability to to buy.

(50:45):
I love the example.
I think it's sopowerful to see that,
you know, when we I thinkit also shows mindset.
If we basically convince ourself
that a specific product isonly for a specific clientele,
We already approach the worldalmost with a negativity and
always think, you know,

(51:06):
if we say it's for the top onepercent then we always say, okay,
the likelihood that the next personcomes in and wants that is zero.
So we don't even make an effort.
While if we program ourselves tosay to say, you know, let's inspire.
Let's let's inspire.
Let's inspire, then then weget to a different result.
Yeah.
To to to to you right,
I can give you another examplethat happened not too long ago

(51:27):
in a in a find your store.
It's one of our client.
And, we received a verynice order from this store,
and we were very, amazed.
So we asked the retailer,
can you tell us a littlebit about the Swiss?
Yeah.
It's a very funny storybecause a gentleman came,
and as we had a goodrelationship, a good exchange,
we showed him a very nice,
bracelet.
We understood it wasfor his daughter.

(51:49):
So, for birthday.
So there was, we didn'ttalk about budget, etcetera.
They said they show differentbracelet, and the guy choose,
has chosen one of our bracelets.
So the the the sales ambassadorwas, was, very happy.
He said, okay. CanI, this bracelet?
Can I, can I preparea gift box, etcetera?

(52:09):
And and the client say,yes, but I want two more.
So the salesman said I was awas a little bit surprised.
He said, yeah.
I want I want I want threethree of the same bracelets.
I told you it wasfor my daughters,
and he didn't understandthe s of daughters.
He just underunderstood daughter.

(52:30):
And, I and, actually, it was a giftfor one for each of his daughter.
So, the the sale was threebracelet instead of one.
And we and when you havea bracelet of one hundred
thousand dollars,
so it's a it's a nicerso it's a nice sellout.
And, actually, anotheralso example of,
what you mentioned is when youhave multi brand of stores or

(52:54):
multi brand store, whenyou have different level,
you have to go to ground floor,first floor, second floor.
A lot of time,
retailers, they put their theirbig brands on the ground floor,
and then they put on firstfloor and second floor,
what what they'll be the the thewhich is not really a top priority.
And and, of course, ninetynine percent of the time,

(53:15):
the sales ambassadoron the ground floor,
they will never never putsome efforts to bring your car
into the first flooror your second floor.
And for me, it's a big mistakebecause you are renting a space
with with threefloors, and, basically,
you base yourbusiness on one floor.
And you could have a fantasticbusiness if you if you are

(53:36):
spreading your topbrands on three floors,
especially the top one.
You could put it on thethird floor people will go.
And, you know that in the
supermarket business,
if you put a a water at theend of your supermarket,
people will cross the wholesupermarket to buy the water.
So the same in the luxury,
if you put top brands onthe third floor, people will go.

(53:56):
And then you will give them achance to see also the other
brands and the rest of, of, of ofof your business because, otherwise,
you just do distribution ofbig brands on the ground floor,
and then the rest,
it's a it's a it's a bigloss for for your p and l.
It's a wonderful example.
And, you know, it reminds me justof something that happened to me,
a few weeks ago.

(54:17):
So I was in Hong Kong, andthe trolley that I had, broke.
And, you know, it was a bitof a sad story, so to speak,
because it was a trolley thatI was really in love with.
Also, a beautifulluxury trolley, but,
probably after six seven yearsof heavy use in thousands of
flights, there was thetime to say goodbye.

(54:39):
And then,
I went in this case toa Louis Vuitton store,
and I was I thought to buy,
you know, I don't evenwant to call it the basic,
but you know theirbeautiful canvas, canvas
horizon trolley.
And I was justgoing to the store
to see which colorcombination should I get.

(55:02):
And then while I was in thestore and they were about to
hot stamp my initials in the,you know, in the name tag,
and said, okay, justbrowse around a little bit.
And then I was walking around, andthen I see I said, well, wait a minute.
And then I saw thesame, the same trolley,
but in a limited edition, thefirst collection of, of Feral.

(55:25):
And it was just gorgeousbeyond imagination.
And so I run back and said stopthe hot pot stamping process.
And it was just, like,last second, I said okay,
we cancel this, I getthe the other one.
And of course, you can imagine theother one was significantly more
expensive, But in this moment,my emotional trigger was,

(55:46):
was activated, so to speak.
And where before, I I thoughtit was more like a bit of a
more rational, I don't wantto say rational purchase,
but it was like Ineeded a trolley.
And so I thought more alittle bit more practical.
But the moment Isaw the other one,
and I thought this is whatI really what I really want.
And then, I don't want to say theprice doesn't play a role anymore,

(56:06):
but but, in this caseit's much more the
desirability of andand maybe the I would
say even the theartistry of this.
And then you alsounderstand that, you know,
it's the first collection,
so there there will neverbe another first collection.
Then you also start tounderstand that there is it's
extremely limited.
And you also know if Idon't and in the store,

(56:28):
they told me that they onlyhad one that they got for,
you know, for Hong Kong.
And then I I thought, okay.
Then maybe they had oneor two in mainland China,
and then maybeanother few in the US.
So I also understood that if Idon't make this purchase now,
even maybe wait anotherday, or another hour,
then probably it's gone forever.

(56:49):
And so suddenly the and itgoes back to also what you said
before, the exclusivity.
And that it's basically also markingan interesting moment of time.
And then also I was on onthis trip to Hong Kong,
and then also thought, okay,
it will always be a memory tobuy it exactly in the store.
So there were so manykind of stories that were overlapping
and suddenly my willingnessto pay from a price point

(57:11):
basically doubledin in that moment.
And I think this is again agreat lesson on, you know,
that the value is oftensomewhere completely different.
And, also often unexpected from
from, you know, acustomer perspective.
And there, we bring again theidea of surprise and and, yeah,
emotionally inspiring people.
Exactly. It's what we say.It's it's purely emotional.

(57:33):
It's not rational at allbecause you you pay maybe four
or five times the priceof the first story.
But now your emotion,
you're at your your emotionlevel is at is at the top,
and you will remember that.
And this is and this iswhat luxury should be about,
is to to have, you know,
this special moment in lifethat you find something is
which is just for you.
You you're falling in love forfor different kind of reason,

(57:56):
and, and, and, this is,
this is fantastic.
And and and you found it because youmove it yourself in the boutiques.
They didn't didn't propose you.
So it's always also somethingthat I I like to do when I
drive on holiday.
I like to take small roadsinstead in instead of motorways

(58:17):
because I love, ofcourse, I'm French,
so I love my gastronomy.
So I love to to discover,you know, a new restaurant.
I do a a step even with my kids.
My kids are very young,
but they love to to eatoysters or foie gras.
They love to discover thethe real food with quality.
And I have numerous,example on going on a small

(58:39):
road, stopping, you know,not knowing very well the
restaurant, just see one ortwo review and and getting
an amazing surprise,
in Dordogne, for example,the the the the country of,
black truffle in, in France.
We stopped with my my wife
on on the road, andshe jumped off the car.

(59:02):
It was the end of the service,but they accepted service.
And and we had a fantastic,
four course meal in a a onestar Michelin restaurant for
below one hundred euro per personwith a glass of wine for each meal.
So we had to we had to becareful on on on on on the
driving after, but,
it was, it was afantastic experience.

(59:24):
And then and thenon top, which was,
even it it also triggermy emotion because I,
I discoveredfantastic white wine,
and I asked the the therestaurant there, you know, Oh,
I love this wine. It'sfantastic. I didn't know.
Can I can I buy you a a bottle?
I would be, you know,

(59:45):
I would be very very pleasedand honored. He said, yeah.
With with no problem.
So I said, you know, Iwant the beer arrived.
I said, okay. You're gonnacharge me. It's normal.
You know? But it'sso it was okay.
You know? It was the holidays.
I had a very nicemoment with my wife,
and I discovered thiswine, which was fantastic.
And it just charged me thecost price of the restaurant.
I was completely shocked. Hecame to me and said, sorry.

(01:00:06):
I wanted to giveyou, three butters,
but I have only two left.
So in my cellar, Igive you one, and,
and it it did charge me just the costof the butter for the restaurant.
So sorry.
So now my emotion with thisrestaurant and this region is
is is triggered for forever,and and this is, all,
what we are looking aboutin life is to have emotions.

(01:00:30):
So you have emotions withfamily moments, with culture,
cinema, singing,
museum arts, and luxuryshould, should look for this,
emotional key also forfor their their clients,
and they are they have alot of lot of opportunities.

(01:00:51):
And I think it's fantastic foryou as a as a consultant to
help them becauseI can tell you,
you have a you have a openfield to help a lot of lot of
companies because theycan they can improve much,
much more to to to toget connected with this,
with, their clients on theiron their emotional level.

(01:01:11):
And at every moment ofthe process of before,
welcoming them, welcoming themduring the the transaction,
after the transaction.
Because, of course,
you want to to have loyalclients and to want to when you
hook them, you wantthem to come back.
So how to make, how to tomake them, coming back,

(01:01:32):
but it's to to entertainthe conversation, like,
with a friend or or a family.
You you have a house.
You have to invite them. Youhave to take care about them.
And not only, you know,
you didn't you didpurchase this last year,
but you didn't purchase that.
So your level of,VIP is going down.
And,
this is what happened to oneof my friend, two months ago.

(01:01:55):
He he didn't buy a watch,for for three years.
So so now he's not consideredanymore as a as a VIP,
as a and and inthe past, he was,
he was buying a lot of watchesto to to a very nice brand.
And, and this is a this isa pity because in a lot of,
companies, CRM is managed nowby Excel sheet and by cohorts.

(01:02:18):
You know?
So, they want to give priorityonly on the people who bought the
year before, six monthsbefore, the year before,
and two years before.
And you forgot about thehistory about your your clients.
And it's often, the historyabout your clients is often,
known by your salesambassador much more than,
your your database

(01:02:42):
tools linked toto AI or Internet.
And I think you said somethingwith with this example that is
so critical is it'sabout the relationship.
And if I think for example now,
if I take the the exampleof the of the trolley purchase,
you know, why didn't I buyanother trolley before?

(01:03:05):
It was not that I, you know,
could not affordbuying another trolley.
It's just I loved the trolleythat I had before so much that
I, you know, there was noreason for me to exchange it.
There were so many memoriesthat were connected with so
many flights, so manytrips, and so on.
So it would have beensomething that I,
and maybe I would neverhave replaced this trolley if the

(01:03:26):
trolley would not have broken.
But for the company that was the youknow manufacturer of my first trolley,
and they will never know it,
I was probably one of theirbest sales ambassadors.
Because you can imagine almostany important meeting that I had,
because I often come from theairport into the meeting room,
I was rolling inwith that trolley.

(01:03:48):
And people say, wow, this thinglooks so cool, and and so on.
So I probably sold for for,
that other brand probably thirty,forty, fifty trolleys, so to speak,
without me being the person becauseI don't I don't need a second one.
But I was always so, you know,
it made me always proud whenpeople said, oh, you know,

(01:04:09):
this is so cool.
And, and I think this is what alsobrands underestimate when they
what you as you just say, whenthey look at the short term,
what is happening right now?
Or, you know you you mentionedyour your examples in air
force that you were notflying them very often.
And I think also probablybecause maybe just the
geography where youwere you were living.

(01:04:30):
So most likely this is the case.
And, you know, I have examplesmyself where, you know, when,
you know, as you know, I livedin in Japan for many years,
then I lived inEurope, then in the US.
So of course, you changepreferences, for example,
on the airline, not becauseyou don't like the airline,
but sometimes it's convenient.
You know, or theairline's not flying to,
that often to the placewhere you live right now,

(01:04:51):
that doesn't mean that anythingchanged emotionally to that airline.
You would probably be willingto reactivate immediately
when it's convenient.
But if now,
you know, after you gave,let's take an airline example,
you gave maybe the airlinefor many many years loyalty.
So take your Air France example,
now you don't fly with them.

(01:05:12):
And if you had come backand they had downgraded you
and didn't take you any moreserious so to speak as a client,
then you know maybe you would nothave any motivation to come back.
But instead, you know, theywrite a nice handwritten note.
They say welcome backafter all these years.
They greet you again.
They bring take youback into the family.

(01:05:33):
Now the loyalty that youalready had before is going to
go significantly up.
While in most casesin in today's world,
the brand actually willdo exactly the opposite.
It will try to kind of,you know, downgrade you.
And then whathappens emotionally?
Because we as we spokespoke about emotion.
If I'm VIP for five yearsand now the brand says,

(01:05:56):
you know, Luke or Daniel, youguys are not VIPs anymore.
How does it feel? It'sgoing to hurt our emotions.
And then, of course,
why would we be loyal toa brand that does this?
This is, I think, also thatwe're in luxury and, you know,
in hospitality, ofcourse, it's it's huge.
And it's not only inhospitality, you know.

(01:06:17):
So many retailershave loyalty programs.
Malls have loyalty programs.
Where they, you know,
give very special treatmentsto their top customers.
But opportunity andrisk are so close here.
And I would actually want tosee one day a study to show how
many top customers brandsactually lost because of

(01:06:39):
ill designed loyalty programs.
And,
of of, you know, as you said,
loyalty programs may maybe evenmanaged in different departments.
You have the person who hasthe emotional connection,
if if the brand hasthat to the top client.
But then you have a maybesecond department that manages
the loyalty program.
They are disconnected.

(01:06:59):
And then one doesn't knowwhat the other is doing,
and then you create,like, complete chaos.
Yeah.
I don't know if youknow this story, but,
in Cartier, the brandCartier, they have a VIP,
a sales ambassadordedicated to the,
they call they arecalled grand vendeurs.

(01:07:19):
So it means they'renot attached to a boutique.
They follow their clients,you know, all over the world.
And one of the best grandvendeurs of Cartier,
even he was the best now.
I think he he he's retired,
Was a a normal guy whowas working originally
after at the aftersales repair service

(01:07:40):
in the back, you know, inthe back of the boutique,
of of Cartier,
Place Vendome, and,a long time ago.
And then once he receiveda client who came,
I don't remember if it was fora pen or a lighter. You know?
It was not working.
And, you know, on theon on the on the on

(01:08:01):
the noble floor with thesalespeople, they say, no.
You have to go.
It's so they they didn'tunderstand who was the client,
and she just had a repair to do.
And so she didn'twant to buy anything,
so it was not interesting,you know, for the salespeople.
And so she sent her to theto the back of the the the
boutique, really, at the back,
and the guy the poor guy wasdoing the after sales service,

(01:08:23):
and he and he gave an anexceptional service to the lady.
And then the ladycame back to the the,
I don't know, a littlebit after for same thing.
Another after sales service,you know, I don't know.
Or yeah.
And the the the service she receivedfrom this guy was outstanding.
So, then she came back inthe boutique another time,

(01:08:44):
now to buy, and she say, no.
No. But, guys, I want onlyto be served by this guy.
And she was, one of the topprincess of Middle East.
I don't know if it was asheikh of of Qatar or Kuwait.
I don't remember.
But she spent a fortune,
but this is the guy shewanted to be served.
And this guy became one ofthe grand vendor of Cartier,

(01:09:07):
because he gave exceptionalservice to a lady that
normally she was not coming to.
She was not
identified as a top buyer or whateverby by the people, and this is,
this is also a big mistake thata lot of people are are doing
in in sales organization.
A client is a client,

(01:09:28):
and you have to take care about
about this client,
whatever they are comingfrom for information,
for maybe some time justto use your bathroom.
You should be,
you should give the service.
You you have to you haveto you you have to give

(01:09:49):
the level of service thatthe luxury brand should give.
That you you don't have tothink that, should I do it?
You have to give the luxury servicethat the luxury brand should give.
Otherwise, you are to the you'regoing to the post office or a
supermarket or whatever,it will get the same.
So if you are not able togive, the luxury service,

(01:10:12):
you you you are you willlose a lot of lot of clients.
This example also to me shows
that, you know, empathyand even, you know,
I use the word now on purpose,
being humble as a brand andas a salesperson is so important.
And I I feel veryoften, you know,
when I audit experiences orwhen I go myself to a store,

(01:10:36):
a restaurant, or hotel, it'sso often that I feel like the
people on the otherside, so to speak,
that they, you know,
sometimes are a bit arrogantbecause they believe now their
brand is fantastic.
And so you almost comesometimes from a pedestal,
and then the client as aclient you come in and you feel

(01:10:56):
or they try to almostmake you feel inferior.
And I think this is also so criticalwhat you said, this approach.
And I think this Grand Vendeurexample really shows how how
powerful it is to be humbleand to take the the human,
in in, you know, and torespect the human, but also to

(01:11:20):
to not have anagenda, so to speak.
So if the agenda was, okay,
we only service thisperson if they sell,
if they buy something,
And it's almost a bit likewhat we just discussed in the
loyalty programs.
It feels not authentic.
It feels very transactional.
And actually we don'tlike transactions.
We like to be, you know,we like emotional things.
And these emotional thingsthen lead to a transaction.

(01:11:43):
But, you know, while in massmarket transactions are normal
because, you know,
the the product doesn'tgive us a lot of emotions,
so it's all aboutefficiency and so on.
Actually, it's about, you know,
if the transactioncomes automatically,
if the emotion is first.
So we have to basicallylook into into the emotional
emotional triggers.
So but I wanted to to,

(01:12:04):
to ask you maybe two twomore two more, things.
The first is now in yourcurrent role as you start as
you took over the role,
what do you see now also withyour experience that you bring
from all the otherassignments that you had in
during your life?
What are for you now thekind of key priorities to

(01:12:25):
take your brand from whereit is today to maybe even a
different level of luxuryand luxury experiences?
So we have we have twokey challenge challenges.
Sorry.
The the the first key is to,
to really found find the retailersthat understand our business model.
Because now a lot ofmulti brand retailers,

(01:12:46):
they only sell,
they're they're used to brandwars to sell watch brand,
and they are only distributors.
You know?
What depends of the popularityof the disability of one watch
brand or another.
And then clients arecoming, and they say, okay.
I want the red or thethe blue, and, no.
You have to wait.
You have to be on the waitinglist, etcetera, etcetera.

(01:13:07):
And, what we see that,
because all the highjewelry Maisons left this,
this network, now they havesome jewelry, but what they do,
they say, Okay, my clientis buying a ten thousand watch,
a ten thousand dollar watch.
Maybe I will present hima three thousand, jewelry,
because then he can buyimmediately for his wife,

(01:13:29):
or his fiancee, you know, as
a gift,
not to be so guilty to buy aten thousand dollar watch, etc.
Instead of thinking,
if he has the purchase power tobuy a ten thousand dollar watch,
he has the purchase power tobuy a ten thousand dollar gift
for his wife, for his fiancee.

(01:13:50):
And, and, and we see a lot ofretailers who have a sales team,
who are very that they don'twant to make a little effort,
and they but the opportunity ofof business is is really there,
especially with the offerthat we give with outstanding
quality of diamonds andcraftsmanship from from Italy.
And, and, so the second challenge isthat we we need to support our growth.

(01:14:13):
We are we are very successful.
We are very good sellout figureswith our our partners at the moment.
And to support our growth,
we we we decided to to investand we bought the latest
and the oldest manufacturer,jewelry manufacturer
in Milan, based in Milan.
Because in Italy, most of themanufacturers are in Valencia.
It's an hour,

(01:14:35):
an hour and a fifteen minutedrive from from Milan.
But we bought the latest to theoldest manufacturer of Milan
inside Milan, and we willenlarge this manufacturer,
and we will also link it to,
link this manufacturerto a jewelry school,
to be able to guarantee,to maintain this level,

(01:14:57):
and this traditionof craftsmanship,
at the highest level,
starting from the youngestage from a goldsmith.
And, because the the the Milanesetradition and the Milanese
style is very specific,
It's very, centered aroundthe stone, the diamond,
not so much about themounting and the gold around.

(01:15:18):
We because we want to,
our aim is to to to enhance thediamond and and the refraction
of the light of the diamond.
So this is the centerpieceof of every piece of jewel,
a necklace, a bracelet,
a nice ring or pair of earring.
And, and we want to havethat level of excellence.

(01:15:38):
So we want to haveour own manufacturer.
We are having ourown manufacturer.
We're gonna link to to a school,
and then we can support thegrowth and to supply the the
the the highest quality ofof of of diamond jewelry
because we are onlyfocused on diamonds.
We don't do semi precious stone.
We do only diamonds jewelry.

(01:15:58):
And, and this is ourtwo key challenge.
So to find the right partner,
we really understand ourbusiness model and we
understand that thereis a market opportunity
to to to to reachsome wealthy client,
And, the our actual partnerswho are, for example,
in Europe, and we are going to

(01:16:19):
expand the network or Paris andand other that that will come
soon because we we we're in theprocess to sign new contract.
We want to support also thisgrowth by investing and and to
guarantee the level ofknow how and the level of,
exquisite quality of thecraftsmanship with the with the

(01:16:40):
best raw material that,
that we can providefor for this jewelry.
Oh, wonderful. Wonderful.
So it's it's basicallya challenge that is about,
you know, bringingthe the artistry that
you're already creatingto another level,
but also to enhance the,

(01:17:01):
as we also discussed duringduring the podcast today,
the the level of service,the level of personalization,
to the customers.
Exactly. Exactly.
We we like to we like to saythat we are the the Italian
tailor of high jewelry.
It means that we can providealso we pro of course,
we have collection that we wepropose to our to our business

(01:17:22):
partner, But we can providealso a tailor made approach of
high jewelry, and we haveseveral requests from clients,
you know, they want to have theirone of a kind piece, unique piece.
And we do that.
We sit with them, wedesign, we design them, and,
we do it only forthem, and, with, with,
the highest quality of diamondthat we can find on the market.

(01:17:45):
And, and, this isreally important.
We welcome them, even ifthey can come to Milan,
in our own our ownshowroom, near the Duomo.
It's a very nice, aplace that, of course,
you you will be the most welcomeon your next visit to to Milan.
And, and,
and I encourage any ofyou, your listeners,
by to to visit us here in Milan.

(01:18:07):
They want to seeour showroom and our
collection, or to go toour website, marcovalante,
ijewellery dot com,or our Instagram
account equally.
Wonderful.
And we will we willput the links to,
your brand and alsohow to contact you.
We'll put them inthe show notes.

(01:18:27):
So and, as as Luke said,
all of you who watch thisand want to get in touch,
want to learn moreabout the brand,
then feel free to reach out.
And then, Luke, maybe last question for meis where do you see the the future of luxury?
Where do you see thethe industry heading?
Where do you see trends?
And what do you thinkwill be for, you know,

(01:18:51):
managers of luxury that arelistening now to to, this podcast?
What will be criticalsuccess factors
to, you know, lead thechange that we are all experiencing?
The the critical factor,
the critical factor isthe human relationship.
So the human relationship thatyou have with your clients.

(01:19:14):
Because as as we said earlier,
this is the keyfactor of success.
You can, you can fell in lovewith a brand for the design,
for for the articles,the products.
If the relationshipis a disaster,
it's killing everything.
So if you if you can imagine,

(01:19:35):
if you are the owner of a brandor or the shareholder of a group,
you you invest a lot ofmoney to hire super high designers.
You you open the best boutique inthe world in the best location,
but your your your yourthe human relationship with the
client is a disaster,
but you your investment are worthnothing at the end of the day.

(01:19:57):
So you're losing everything.
So the more and more itwill become automatic
with, you know, CRMmanagement tools through,
through AI or other system,
the more and more the humanrelationship will be a key
factor of success.
So you need to invest inthis human relationship

(01:20:19):
with, everybody fromyour team, by the way,
not only the front people,
who are talking to your clients,
but the back office people whoare normally here to support
them, by the way.
I like what you saidabout, you know,
to reverse the org chartand to put the CEO at the at
the at the bottom.
It's exactly,

(01:20:41):
what we should do.
We are the we are thesupport team for the the front people
in in connectionwith the clients,
but you have also toknow about the clients.
So first, it should be compulsoryfor everybody from the back office
to go in the boutique and to,
to to have a retail experiencebecause we are in the retail,

(01:21:01):
business model retailbusiness model.
We are not, evenif you do b two b,
at the end of the day, yousell to a final client.
So you need toknow about retail.
In, most of the casein business school,
people forgot that I forgot,
I forgotten thatretail is retail.
You have to be in a boutiqueand to talk to clients.

(01:21:25):
This is really important,
and that your relationship with theclient can make a huge difference.
You you can increase, you know,
I always say is that a verygood sales ambassador can do
plus twenty plus thirty percent,
and a very bad can dominus twenty, minus thirty.
So the gap between two two salesambassador is sixty percent.

(01:21:47):
This is a killingthis is a killing,
effect on your retailbusiness model.
If you have this this gapbetween two salespeople,
plus thirty, minus thirty,
it's a financial disasterat the end of the day.
So you you have to have the the
the the best ambassadors.

(01:22:07):
And, so the for me,
the the the future apps theabsolute future is the human
relationship between thebrand and and the the clients.
Wonderful.
And I think this is agreat kind of circle that we were
going from since the beginningof of our conversation.
You know, I remember when I askedyou the question, what is luxury?

(01:22:30):
You spoke about the exceptionalquality of the materials,
the craftsmanship,the real history,
and the exclusivity.
But then you said allof this has to translate
into the emotionalkey of the client.
And then we discussed, I think,
in the one and a halfhours of our conversation,
all kind of aspects,of it, you know,

(01:22:51):
from the DNA of the brand thathas to match the client DNA.
So we have also here, again,the human the human effector.
Or, you know, you mentionedthat very often in in our
reality today, salespeopledescribe what is the obvious,
but then they maybe forgetthe human experience.
You know, we also said, I lovewhat you said, for example,

(01:23:12):
in incentive system,one plus one is three.
Because, again, the the humanfactor that you bring in
is so valuable.
And it's maybe I don'twanna say more valuable,
but at least as valuable asall the other aspects in the,
in in the, in in theentire customer experience.
You know?
And then we spoke about the the,

(01:23:34):
now in in your summary or in whereyou see the future is heading,
that the humanrelationship becomes
the really the mission critical.
And I totally agree with you.
I think that in the worldin which we're heading in,
there's not so much, let's say,
we know for sure what'sgoing to be in five years,
in ten years, in twenty years.
No one has the crystal ball.

(01:23:56):
But I would, if webasically say that the
past is a bit of apredictor of the future,
we can probably assume thatour world is going to be more
interconnected digitally.
We will probably notuse dramatically less social
networks, but probably more.
And we will have a muchmore integrated life

(01:24:19):
between the digitaland the physical.
And this means that thepure physical experiences
will probably be lessthan what we have today.
So if our worldbecomes more digital almost automatically
there's less and less spacefor physical experiences.
Which also means thatthe physical experiences,

(01:24:41):
when we experience them,
become so much more valuable becausethey become almost exclusive.
And I think this is to me wherealso today a lot of brands are
failing already and then maybeeven we're going to be failing
more in the future is thatif they provide today only a
mediocre experience,

(01:25:02):
then they're already kind of wastingthe time of the of the customers.
And also I wanted to kind of
go to one of the thingsyou said before that, you know,
once we experiencesomething much better,
we don't want to go go back.
And I think what also a lotof companies underestimate is

(01:25:22):
the the individual human hasall kind of experiences in
different categories.
So, let's say
and if I if I take afor example, let's say,
we would be in automotive.
Then almost naturally,
what what we would do is wewould benchmark ourselves with

(01:25:43):
our competitors in automotive.
And we would look into, youknow, what is brand a doing,
b doing, c doing.
And we would make sure that weare at least on par with them.
But I always want my clientsacross the different categories
and say this is not enoughanymore in the world today.
Because if they buy a pieceof jewelry or they go to a

(01:26:03):
fancy restaurant or you knowhave a lot of other experiences,
now they will compare theexperience in that particular
category with allother experiences.
And if then thebrand in a particular
category or the brands asa collective in that category
fall behind because inthat category that category
is maybe a littlebit more traditional,

(01:26:25):
suddenly you can get irrelevantas an entire category.
So I think the the,
my feeling is also just wantalso to maybe get your feel on
that is since thechange is accelerating so much,
and the chain it looks like thingsare changing faster and faster.
And even if you see adaptationrates of key technologies,

(01:26:46):
you know, you mentioned AI.
It's the fastest adaptivetechnology ever in human history.
And if you thinkabout generative AI,
it's not so long that wesaw the first applications,
and now every company is is tryingto see how can they apply it.
So we can assume that thesekind of changes are going to be
even more steep, moredrastic, and faster.

(01:27:08):
And I think, here, thethe the as you said,
the human relationshipis is is critical.
But what do youfeel like in this
faster acceleration of change?
Anything else that companieshave to to focus on to kind
of lead this change?

(01:27:29):
By
training, for me, is a isa is a is a key factor.
You have to train to train totrain again to train to train.
And, again, I think the hospitalityindustry is is quite good at
that, training people.
They do that.
You just have to be carefulnot to train them on the same
mistakes always always becauseit's like when I receive a

(01:27:51):
resume and and people aresaying to me, oh, yeah.
Fifteen years ofexperience in this field.
I say, yeah, but I don't knowthe quality of your experience.
So, no offense.
But, I I'm gonnacheck that first.
It's the same,
so so train training, you haveto you know, it's like sport.
If you want to be thebest, you have to train.
You have to train.You have to, always.

(01:28:13):
So never never stoptraining to to to perform.
Second, I think you have tobe open also to creativity,
with your team.
We we talk about empower people.
You have to be open tocreativity from your team.
Because more and more now,
luxury maison belongs to bigcorporate group, and it's,

(01:28:35):
you know, it's comingwith management process,
top down approach.
You have to do this to besuccessful, etcetera, etcetera.
And there is no more,
room for creativity
from, from everybodyat each level,
from the team, and andwe have to be, open mind.
And you have to respectsometimes the the the the style.

(01:28:59):
Sometimes the style ofsalespeople are different than
the stereotype thatyou were thinking of,
and they are successful.
You know, the the I lovethat financial proverb,
which say the marketis is always right.
So if your client is buying,
the client is buying thestyle of the sales ambassador.
They respect theguidelines of of the brand,
has to be, respected also.

(01:29:21):
You know, it's like in ain a if you go, for me,
a fine gastronomic restaurant,
always the the the killerquestion for me at the end is,
do you want a dessert?
I mean, guys, you arein a business model,
Everybody around thetable, of course,
will say no because everybody'staking care about, you know,

(01:29:44):
his health, and they say, okay.
It's the evening. We don't yeah.
Now you are you are asked notto eat sugar anymore in the
evening, etcetera etcetera.
So, of course,everybody will say no.
But, if you ask,if you come and you
say, oh, you know, today,we have a very special dessert,
made of blah blah blah.
It's coming with thisspecial chocolat that,

(01:30:06):
coming from Ivory Coast.
It was roasted at acertain temperature.
It's an exquisite.It's a one of a kind.
There is always one guy or ladyaround the table who will say yes.
And then if you have one yes,then you will have two, three,
then, a lady will say yes,
and all the ladieswill say yes also.
And then it's plus thirtypercent or twenty five percent

(01:30:26):
of of the bill, of turnover.
It's why also ifyou go to really,
really high levelgastronomic restaurant,
they bring you a of this areabecause you see all of them and
you cannot resist.
It's the same withthe cheese, you know,
from the three star meshed.
You always ask why they'recoming with everything a bit.
Because if they put that youthe show in front of you,

(01:30:49):
you cannot resist.
It's the same, soit's very good.
So when in the restaurant, thethe waiter is coming and ask,
does everybody want a dessert?
It's a disaster for forfor for the restaurant.
So in the human relationship,
you have always also to trainthem in the in the right way
and to to the the thetraining should be focused on

(01:31:11):
emotions, how to pass a passion,
how to pass the passion,and how to trigger emotion.
At each step of therelationship with your client
is how you cantrigger the emotion.
This should be the main target,the main goal of a training.
The the goal is not to say,
you have to selltwenty percent more,

(01:31:32):
twenty percent more to sell.
This is how you cantrigger the emotion.
If you do that,
your client will follow youand then will be loyal to you
because then you will be able toto sell much more than an article.
You will sell thelevel of service,
and they are expectingthat level of service.
And then they will say, wow.

(01:31:53):
And on top of that,
the the good
word-of-mouth will bea fantastic advertising
for the for the company.
And and you know, by the way,that the opposite is, is worse.
And when you havea bad negative word-of-mouth,
this is a killer.
So to to to regain it, it'sa it's a it's a nightmare.

(01:32:14):
But,
everybody, if youask around you,
everybody complainabout their dentist,
but everybody knows a good one.
Yeah.
So back because everybodylikes to say to somebody else
that they know somebody who'sgood or some that that human
being love to do that.

(01:32:35):
I know this. I know this.
I know this.
And the best modelbusiness model, by the way,
to sell is to have,
what I call the luxuryto pair ware strategy,
is to have a smaller gatheringwith client and prospect
because your client will sell,
instead of you, youdon't have to sell.
Your clients will sell for you.
So,

(01:32:55):
I think the because the clients,
they know they will passtheir emotions and their passions to
to others much morethan selling people.
So, I think it's,
the the the the, of course,
the key factor of success in in trainingwill be how to trigger emotions.

(01:33:16):
Wonderful.
And then, this I think is a amazingclosing for our first podcast.
First of all, thankyou, Luc, for, you know,
I think we said we'dprobably chat for an hour,
and I think we are now probablyalmost about one hour forty
five or so.
But, you know, andI'm pretty sure if,

(01:33:36):
if, we would notlook at the watch,
we could talk forever and,
and go deeper and deeperin this direction.
But what I really loved about ourconversation was that, you know,
we can really see thatfundamentally when when when we
create luxury, we have tocreate something very human,
something very, youknow, that is that is,

(01:33:57):
that that is basicallyingrained in passion.
So passion, emotion, andthis human factor, you know,
being empathetic also tothe other side is is great.
And what what I what I lovethis is that there's so many
many misconceptions aboutabout luxury, you know,
and about the sometimesarrogant behavior.
And so what we see fundamentallyis very down to earth.

(01:34:18):
It's trying to understandanother person and then trying to
inspire them, give themsomething that they truly love,
that they fall in love for,
and then nurture thatrelationship that that builds.
And I think the companies thatcan do this and the individuals
that can do this, right,and then, you know,

(01:34:39):
if you take a company levelwhen you can do this at scale,
then I don't think that there'sanything that can stop them.
And very often when we seebrands that are underperforming,
then there's thepassion is missing,
the human factor is missing,
the sales processis often broken,
The stories are not reallytold well, and so on.
It always kind of goes backto the same root cause.

(01:34:59):
So,
I thought it was afascinating discussion.
As always, when wetalk about luxuries,
there's so many things thatI'm that I'm taking myself as a
learning from, you know,
your your rich background andyour experiences that you had.
I thought the examples thatyou shared were incredible.
And I wish you bestof luck for, you know,

(01:35:21):
in your new role,with your company.
And as we said in theshow in the show notes,
you know, we're going to toshare the the contacts and so
on, and take on Luke'sinvitation to Milan.
And I can wait.
I would surely be this year inMilan at least once or twice.
So next time I'm there,I'll let you know,
and then I will willexperience your brand yourself.

(01:35:42):
And, you know, until then,thank you so much for coming.
It was really a true pleasure.
Thank you, Daniel.
I wish you a very niceend of the day, and,
I look forward to receivingyou and to welcoming you in in
Milan to have a a properMilanese experience.
Wonderful. Super.Thank you so much.

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#1 - Luc Rochereau: General Director of Marco Valente on How Emotional Connections Shape the Essence of Luxury

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#1 - Luc Rochereau: General Director of Marco Valente on How Emotional Connections Shape the Essence of Luxury