AI, AEO, and GTM Engineering: How to Build a B2B Marketing Engine

Episode Summary: In this packed episode, Lacey Miller joins Erin and Ken to demystify what it means to be a "Go-to-Market Engineer" in today’s AI-fueled marketing landscape. She breaks down how she uses agentic AI workflows to build repeatable, high-output growth systems without the team bloat. If you’ve ever wondered how AI changes content strategy, brand building, or TikTok for B2B... this is your playbook.

🎧 What You’ll Learn:

• Why the first 100 days in a marketing role now demands a full AI-first mindset
• How AEO (Answer Engine Optimization) flips SEO on its head and what it means for your content
• The creative tech stack behind Lacey’s agent-led outbound machine (yes, Lindy + Replit + persona recognition)
• Why brand visuals and voice need prompt engineering too
• How AI is changing buying behavior—and what smart marketers are doing in response
• Practical ways to use podcasts, transcripts, and conversational content to win in LLM search
• The real ROI of TikTok for B2B and why your team needs a “TikTok hour”

🛠️ Gladiator Round: Behind the Scenes of Lacey’s Stack Lacey walks through how she classifies inbound leads, triggers AI workflows, and scales one-to-one GTM—all without a dev team. You’ll see her build live in Replit and Lindy.

📢 Next Steps

• Try using NotebookLM to create your own podcast content
• Share your AI wins or roadblocks with us on Twitter @FutureCraftpod

 

01:00 Ken's AI Journey: Building Connectors

02:16 Erin's AI Research Project

03:37 Guest Introduction: Lacey Miller

04:24 Lacey Miller's Marketing Insights

07:43 The Role of AI in Modern Marketing

11:37 AI-Driven Search and Content Strategies

16:57 Challenges and Opportunities in AI Marketing

22:12 Future of AI in B2B Marketing

25:01 SEO Strategies for AI Enthusiasts

25:38 Trends in User Engagement

26:50 The Evolution of Search Behavior

29:22 Disrupting Traditional Advertising

36:01 The Rise of TikTok in B2B Marketing

40:20 Practical AI Tools for Marketers

41:17 Lightning Round: Quick Marketing Insights

44:09 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

About our Guest: Lacey Miller

Lacey Miller is a highly experienced and impactful marketing executive, currently spearheading Growth Marketing at Perigon, an AI context engine. She is recognized for her innovative approaches to AI Visibility Optimization (AIVO), "Answer-Engine Optimization (AEO)," and pioneering TikTok-for-B2B playbooks. She focuses on  how to leverage ai in saas b2b in  content marketing As a proven first-hire marketing leader, Lacey specializes in building robust Go-to-Market (GTM) strategies from the ground up, particularly for B2B, developer, and enterprise AI SaaS products. Her expertise lies in translating complex technical capabilities into compelling narratives that resonate with diverse audiences and drive revenue growth. At Perigon, she is actively driving category creation, positioning the company as a leader in real-time AI context. Prior to Perigon, Lacey served as Head of Marketing at Bezi, where she built the initial GTM framework and integrated AI into product strategy. Her experience also includes building high-performing marketing functions at LoudCrowd, where she significantly contributed to ARR and fundraising, and leading full-funnel GTM strategies at VertifyData. Notable Quotes:

“Robots are making us sound more human.” “You can’t blog your way into LLMs—you need conversation.” “AI is not your replacement, it’s your multiplier.” “Your GPT isn't a toy. It’s your co-pilot.” “We’re not just building campaigns anymore—we’re building products.”

Resources:

Lindy.ai

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the FutureCraft podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and GTM. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more.

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the FutureCraft GTM website.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
.999Hey crafters.
Just a reminder, this podcast is for informational entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. 3 00:00:08,330.0000000002 --> 00:00:18,10.001 The views and opinions expressed our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work with are associated with, or have worked with in the past. 4 00:00:18,610.001 --> 00:00:20,530.001 for tuning in to the FutureCraft podcast. 5 00:00:20,800.001 --> 00:00:21,770.001 Let's get it started. 6 00:00:21,770.001 --> 00:00:30,142.81052381 uh, uh, uh, um, uh, hey there. 7 00:00:30,142.81052381 --> 00:00:39,442.81052381 Welcome to The Future Craft Go To Market podcast, where we're exploring how AI is changing all things go to market, from awareness to loyalty and everything in between. 8 00:00:39,952.81052381 --> 00:00:42,922.81052381 I'm Ken Roden, one of your guides on this exciting new journey. 9 00:00:43,522.81052381 --> 00:00:49,702.81052381 And I am Erin Mills, your co-host, and together we're here to unpack the future of AI and go to market. 10 00:00:50,32.81052381 --> 00:00:56,872.81052381 We're gonna share some best practices, how tos, interview industry leaders and pioneers who are paving the way in AI and go to market. 11 00:00:57,442.81052381 --> 00:00:57,952.81052381 So Ken. 12 00:00:58,282.81052381 --> 00:01:06,102.81052381 Tell me, what are you doing in ai? So I built my first connector. 13 00:01:06,582.81052381 --> 00:01:17,572.81052381 I used relevance ai and the use case I had was, I have a lot of content through my doctorate through just. 14 00:01:18,292.81052381 --> 00:01:19,402.81052381 S presentations. 15 00:01:19,402.81052381 --> 00:01:25,492.81052381 I've done speaking work as well as just working on thought leadership for the podcast. 16 00:01:25,682.81052381 --> 00:01:40,227.81052381 I created a connector that would have an agent pull an being able to pull from my A folder that's a living within Google Drive, and then analyze what topics are relevant based off some other. 17 00:01:41,67.81052381 --> 00:01:42,447.81052381 Industry trends that are happening. 18 00:01:42,717.81052381 --> 00:01:51,467.81052381 And so it's able to give me five topics, then I can pick the one I wanna write about and I can do it in two minutes versus taking me, I don't know how long it would take me to go through 50 documents. 19 00:01:51,467.81052381 --> 00:01:53,477.81052381 So huge time saver. 20 00:01:53,527.81052381 --> 00:01:54,397.81052381 Also really fun. 21 00:01:54,397.81052381 --> 00:01:56,357.81052381 So I'm living my best. 22 00:01:57,257.81052381 --> 00:02:00,497.81052381 I AI tech, GTM, engineer Life. 23 00:02:00,967.81052381 --> 00:02:01,417.81052381 I love it. 24 00:02:01,417.81052381 --> 00:02:04,677.81052381 And I can't wait to read the outputs 'cause you always put really good stuff out there. 25 00:02:04,737.81052381 --> 00:02:13,497.81052381 But it's like there's so many platforms now to find it, it's hard to get everything centralized and maximize the value you can bring. 26 00:02:13,932.81052381 --> 00:02:32,942.81052381 What about you? How are you using ai? I have been working on a deep research project and one of the things that lands really well, are these trends reports, they're time intensive and you typically, you do a survey and then you analyze a survey results and it's just like a significant amount of work. 27 00:02:33,252.81052381 --> 00:02:37,282.81052381 there's already a lot of data out there, especially on, sites. 28 00:02:37,640.31052381 --> 00:02:42,512.81052381 I scraped a site that gives stats about particular things. 29 00:02:42,512.81052381 --> 00:03:01,182.81052381 I had some analysis done, and then I was really able to synthesize all the deep research into a meaningful trends report, which, would've been impossible to do without ai, So I have this really great, 35 page piece now that is incredibly well researched and I think it'll be a real asset. 30 00:03:02,157.81052381 --> 00:03:08,802.81052381 So much time saved and not even just time saved, but how, you wouldn't even known to look in the places that it probably provided. 31 00:03:09,492.81052381 --> 00:03:10,92.81052381 A hundred percent. 32 00:03:10,422.81052381 --> 00:03:11,262.81052381 And I think. 33 00:03:11,532.81052381 --> 00:03:18,552.81052381 Not just look in the places, but getting directly to the answer that I was trying to get to. 34 00:03:18,552.81052381 --> 00:03:25,122.81052381 And so pointing to the data that is gonna be most relevant for the questions I was asking, I would've had to comb through hours. 35 00:03:25,122.81052381 --> 00:03:29,22.81052381 And even if I knew the website to look at, it would've been hours to try to find that stat. 36 00:03:29,412.81052381 --> 00:03:30,672.81052381 Yeah, that's a cool one. 37 00:03:30,672.81052381 --> 00:03:31,392.81052381 I'm gonna try that. 38 00:03:31,392.81052381 --> 00:03:32,82.81052381 I like that a lot. 39 00:03:33,332.81052381 --> 00:03:37,772.81052381 Speaking of engineering and go to market, we have a great guest coming on. 40 00:03:37,982.81052381 --> 00:03:45,297.81052381 Ken, Who do we have on the podcast? Today we have someone who I'm really curious to learn a lot from. 41 00:03:45,517.81052381 --> 00:03:48,687.81052381 Her name's Lacey Miller, and she is the. 42 00:03:49,692.81052381 --> 00:03:55,192.81052381 Head of growth marketing at a company called Paragon, she has a really diverse set of experiences and backgrounds. 43 00:03:55,372.81052381 --> 00:04:06,692.81052381 She has worked a lot of companies, usually being the original founder, but founding marketing member, but also she's on TikTok and like I am so curious about this, B2B marketers on TikTok. 44 00:04:06,692.81052381 --> 00:04:08,162.81052381 I've got a lot of questions for her. 45 00:04:08,792.81052381 --> 00:04:16,912.81052381 I can't wait to talk to her, I know she's really known for how to leverage AI and SaaS B2B content marketing. 46 00:04:16,962.81052381 --> 00:04:18,312.81052381 that is such a hot topic. 47 00:04:18,642.81052381 --> 00:04:19,452.81052381 Can't wait to dive in. 48 00:04:23,141.9014329 --> 00:04:24,791.9014329 We're back with Lacey Miller. 49 00:04:24,841.9014329 --> 00:04:28,111.9014329 Lacey is a highly experienced and impactful marketing executive. 50 00:04:28,111.9014329 --> 00:04:38,591.9014329 She's currently spearheading growth marketing at Perigon, an AI context engine, and is recognized for her innovative approaches to AI visibility optimization. 51 00:04:38,841.9014329 --> 00:04:40,581.9014329 another acronym for us. 52 00:04:41,26.9014329 --> 00:04:45,916.9014329 Answer engine optimization a AEO, and pioneering TikTok for B2B playbooks. 53 00:04:46,66.9014329 --> 00:04:58,416.9014329 She focuses on how to leverage AI and SaaS B2B content marketing Lacey specializes in building robust go-to-market strategies from the ground up, particularly for B2B developer and enterprise AI SaaS products. 54 00:04:58,536.9014329 --> 00:05:05,826.9014329 Her expertise lies in translating complex technical capabilities into compelling narratives that resonate with diverse audiences and drive revenue growth. 55 00:05:05,831.9014329 --> 00:05:12,431.9014329 At Perigon, she's actively driving category creation, positioning the company as a leader in real time AI context. 56 00:05:12,581.9014329 --> 00:05:30,476.9014329 Prior to Perigon, Lacey served as the head of marketing at Bezi where she built the initial go-to-market framework and integrated AI into product strategy, her experience also includes building high performing marketing functions at loud crowd, where she significantly contributed to a RR and fundraising and leading full funnel. 57 00:05:30,476.9014329 --> 00:05:33,206.9014329 Go-to-market Strategies at Verify Data. 58 00:05:33,236.9014329 --> 00:05:34,916.9014329 Lacey, welcome to Future Craft. 59 00:05:34,916.9014329 --> 00:05:36,176.9014329 Thanks for chatting with us. 60 00:05:36,761.9014329 --> 00:05:40,571.9014329 I'm all of the above, and I do all of those things within a week. 61 00:05:41,166.9014329 --> 00:05:41,796.9014329 I love it. 62 00:05:42,106.9014329 --> 00:05:44,236.9014329 You call yourself a go-to-market engineer. 63 00:05:44,416.9014329 --> 00:05:49,516.9014329 What does that mean and how does it differ from a traditional head of marketing? Oh my goodness. 64 00:05:49,516.9014329 --> 00:05:59,466.9014329 This is so funny because before we kicked off our podcast, we talked about how we have to promote ourselves or promote our work As marketers, I think we're always rebranding. 65 00:06:00,111.9014329 --> 00:06:08,881.9014329 But it is very different in the sense that you're building repeatable, go-to-market systems, right? This is no longer like chasing leads. 66 00:06:09,71.9014329 --> 00:06:16,331.9014329 It's about building growth loops that learn and feed downstream content visibility awareness. 67 00:06:16,331.9014329 --> 00:06:25,31.9014329 And so there's a lot more product thinking that goes into it, right? We're not just marketing hat, we are thinking like a product developer as well. 68 00:06:25,61.9014329 --> 00:06:28,241.9014329 You've been the first marketing hire at a lot of SaaS startups. 69 00:06:28,371.9014329 --> 00:06:41,261.9014329 drawing from your experiences, how does the first hundred days playbook look for a marketing leader, especially in the face of AI now? It's interesting because I feel like that changes every six months. 70 00:06:41,311.9014329 --> 00:06:44,761.9014329 And every role I take on is about a new challenge. 71 00:06:44,761.9014329 --> 00:06:48,1.9014329 It's never about taking the same playbook to the next role. 72 00:06:48,81.9014329 --> 00:06:55,751.9014329 Sometimes when I, data, Bezi loud crowd, like all of these were very different markets and very different personas. 73 00:06:55,751.9014329 --> 00:07:06,71.9014329 And I remember in interview processes and talking to board members or CEOs about bringing me on, I would always say you don't need an expert in your industry. 74 00:07:06,71.9014329 --> 00:07:09,731.9014329 You need an expert marketer because we can market anything. 75 00:07:09,811.9014329 --> 00:07:17,641.9014329 my first role we pivoted four times from energy efficiency software to a alternative lending platform. 76 00:07:19,291.9014329 --> 00:07:25,81.9014329 So I always tell people, yeah, like one day you go on vacation, the next day you come back and we're a bank. 77 00:07:25,291.9014329 --> 00:07:30,331.9014329 it taught me there are certain plays you can run, but there's really never a playbook. 78 00:07:30,481.9014329 --> 00:07:34,921.9014329 And especially like Bezi and loud crowd, I was really building a brand. 79 00:07:35,326.9014329 --> 00:07:36,466.9014329 And pipeline. 80 00:07:36,466.9014329 --> 00:07:37,816.9014329 And then content motions. 81 00:07:37,816.9014329 --> 00:07:50,166.9014329 how are we gonna get out there in social? How are we gonna get out there? A blog or in community? But with Perigon it's, this is where AI comes into play so much because it's repeatable inputs. 82 00:07:50,216.9014329 --> 00:07:54,406.9014329 What can I do at scale by myself? I need automations. 83 00:07:54,406.9014329 --> 00:08:00,166.9014329 I have to test different LLMs, connect all the different pieces of marketing. 84 00:08:00,811.9014329 --> 00:08:05,611.9014329 Into one process to become that self-sustaining go-to market engine. 85 00:08:06,31.9014329 --> 00:08:10,681.9014329 And we're in this whole new world of A IVO once again, G-E-O-A-E-O. 86 00:08:10,681.9014329 --> 00:08:35,71.9014329 Like we're calling it so many things, but what's beautiful about it is that we are talking about getting back to a conversational side, right? Like when you search within an LLM, you use natural language Ironic that it took using robots to sound more human right? Nobody walks up to you and goes, good coffee shop, Austin, Texas, that's a robot. 87 00:08:35,401.9014329 --> 00:08:43,621.9014329 That's Google search, Today if you go to ChatGPT, you're like, I'm looking for a great local coffee shop in Austin, Texas. 88 00:08:43,981.9014329 --> 00:08:46,51.9014329 Quiet vibe where I can work. 89 00:08:46,51.9014329 --> 00:08:47,941.9014329 you're telling it a lot more context. 90 00:08:48,796.9014329 --> 00:08:50,326.9014329 And getting much better results. 91 00:08:50,326.9014329 --> 00:08:54,436.9014329 So it's interesting that the robots are making us more human. 92 00:08:54,436.9014329 --> 00:08:59,936.9014329 But then that goes back to the complete change in the playbook of how you approach marketing as well. 93 00:09:01,146.9014329 --> 00:09:14,666.9014329 Yeah, it's really speaks to the bigger conversation we're seeing in marketing right now where we've spent so many years focused on metrics, We've gone so far on the data side and now brand matters again. 94 00:09:14,796.9014329 --> 00:09:16,206.9014329 people are like now it's the age of brand. 95 00:09:16,256.9014329 --> 00:09:25,926.9014329 I was curious about your career being focused on building things from the ground up and you mentioned, how we talk to LLMs now. 96 00:09:26,286.9014329 --> 00:09:34,746.9014329 How does that zero to one experience directly lead to developing those concepts like AEO? Oh man. 97 00:09:34,746.9014329 --> 00:09:36,396.9014329 we are approaching everything. 98 00:09:36,921.9014329 --> 00:09:38,271.9014329 Very differently. 99 00:09:38,321.9014329 --> 00:09:42,231.9014329 it's almost easier to build a brand, but in some ways harder. 100 00:09:42,231.9014329 --> 00:09:46,701.9014329 at Perigon we're an AI platform, But our branding is full human. 101 00:09:46,851.9014329 --> 00:09:53,391.9014329 We want you to see people, we want you to understand that we are your superpower, not your replacement. 102 00:09:53,731.9014329 --> 00:09:56,341.9014329 we think it's very important that our brand reflects that. 103 00:09:56,421.9014329 --> 00:09:58,71.9014329 AI is not gonna replace you. 104 00:09:58,671.9014329 --> 00:10:13,661.9014329 The prompting that our designer did to get to a place where we have a consistent way to build imagery using AI is almost beyond comprehension but his brain thinks in a designer way. 105 00:10:13,691.9014329 --> 00:10:21,151.9014329 He's building a brand, we have a visual identity, and he gets to use AI tools to help. 106 00:10:22,141.9014329 --> 00:10:37,901.9014329 Crank that out and help it be consistent if you've ever tried to build an image on some of these platforms, everybody was sharing that action figure looking thing that you were doing on ChatGPT This was not a, come here and create an entirely new experience. 107 00:10:37,901.9014329 --> 00:10:43,751.9014329 And every time everyone across LinkedIn does the same thing, it's gonna all be the same. 108 00:10:43,751.9014329 --> 00:10:53,201.9014329 If you try to do that, just prompt my hair's brown, it's not blonde It'll completely redraw the image, like I didn't ask you to completely redo it. 109 00:10:53,891.9014329 --> 00:10:57,301.9014329 And so that's one of those understandings you need to know. 110 00:10:57,301.9014329 --> 00:11:00,271.9014329 There's so much going on in the background of the LLM. 111 00:11:01,561.9014329 --> 00:11:08,551.9014329 It knows how to tell everyone to make an action figure, but it doesn't know how to build your brand visual identity. 112 00:11:08,551.9014329 --> 00:11:11,251.9014329 don't forget the prompting that goes behind that. 113 00:11:11,281.9014329 --> 00:11:21,681.9014329 And that's just one piece, right? we also have brand voice stuff and the prompting that goes behind that, it's so important to ask any lm you're using any GPT you're using. 114 00:11:21,681.9014329 --> 00:11:34,701.9014329 Hey, if you want a playbook that melds with, and changes with the day you have to know how to talk to the robots and bring the consistency to the conversation. 115 00:11:37,851.9014329 --> 00:11:54,71.9014329 Can you describe the initial steps an established B2B team should take to integrate ai and leverage it in an AI SaaS B2B content marketing strategy? I work for an AI platform, but that didn't mean that we were AI first. 116 00:11:54,71.9014329 --> 00:12:04,381.9014329 We actually, last week we did a complete shut down a product and development and we as a company decided that we were going to do an AI hackathon. 117 00:12:04,931.9014329 --> 00:12:23,1.9014329 even we had to sit down and go, okay, what does it mean to be AI first in marketing? What does it mean to be AI first in customer success? I was talking to a CMO that I admired the other day, and he was talking about this concept of AI first and how the CTO of his company was leading it. 118 00:12:23,581.9014329 --> 00:12:25,441.9014329 I said that's too obvious. 119 00:12:25,501.9014329 --> 00:12:31,651.9014329 Like you're the CMO, it's not obvious for your team to learn how to code things in the back end. 120 00:12:31,661.9014329 --> 00:12:37,781.9014329 you need to be the one that leads the way, like the teams that aren't obvious coders should be the one leading the way on this. 121 00:12:38,591.9014329 --> 00:12:42,91.9014329 Because it's a complete restructuring of how your brain works. 122 00:12:42,91.9014329 --> 00:12:44,401.9014329 Like I've been using HubSpot my entire career. 123 00:12:44,401.9014329 --> 00:12:47,161.9014329 It is so easy for me to go in there and set up a workflow. 124 00:12:48,241.9014329 --> 00:12:59,281.9014329 But in an AI first world, It's not a growth lever to do that, So I had to completely pull back the curtain on what I was building here at Perigon. 125 00:12:59,581.9014329 --> 00:13:07,941.9014329 And go, how at every step of this can I inject or use AI in a different way? And it's a challenge. 126 00:13:07,941.9014329 --> 00:13:24,441.9014329 It's gonna be a challenge for teams going forward, but I think you gotta find where you're comfortable, There's a level of coding that I'm comfortable with and there's a level with Cursor that I just do not get I know my limitations and then It's also evangelizing that throughout the company. 127 00:13:25,171.9014329 --> 00:13:29,71.9014329 a lot of people are still scared of AI and AI first. 128 00:13:29,411.9014329 --> 00:13:58,901.9014329 I got to do a panel at the end of last year on the future of PR comms and ai and the woman putting together the panel is this incredible international company and has all of these clients that are all over the world, and she couldn't get any of them to commit because they were still not in a place where legal would let them talk about using AI or their CMO would let them talk about using ai. 129 00:13:58,901.9014329 --> 00:14:03,671.9014329 And what's interesting to me is that some of us feel like it's just everywhere. 130 00:14:03,701.9014329 --> 00:14:16,951.9014329 But I think if we really peeled back the layers on that it is probably like 80% of professionals still don't exactly know where to start, and it's not ChatGPT, like that's really not AI first. 131 00:14:18,196.9014329 --> 00:14:20,446.9014329 It's funny you mention that because. 132 00:14:20,741.9014329 --> 00:14:35,861.9014329 those of us that live and breathe AI every day are constantly making that assumption like, oh my God, I'm so far behind, or I have to try this new thing or understand, and the vast majority of folks are still wondering what's possible. 133 00:14:36,216.9014329 --> 00:14:56,526.9014329 that disconnect is interesting, one of the things I was thinking about is, maybe ChatGPT isn't the first one to be AI first, but if you think of your daily tech stack, what gives you an unfair advantage? What is that tool and how do you use it? so that's Lindy Ooh. 134 00:14:56,826.9014329 --> 00:15:01,416.9014329 I will be showing y'all this, but this is like the craziest thing. 135 00:15:01,466.9014329 --> 00:15:02,216.9014329 let's start with Lindy. 136 00:15:02,216.9014329 --> 00:15:03,746.9014329 Lindy is agentic. 137 00:15:03,746.9014329 --> 00:15:07,436.9014329 Lindy is something where you set up a workflow. 138 00:15:07,486.9014329 --> 00:15:09,826.9014329 it can be as simple as. 139 00:15:10,631.9014329 --> 00:15:18,251.9014329 integrating your calendar with Lindy and then Lindy one hour before your meeting goes, Hey, you're meeting with Erin and Ken, you're doing a podcast. 140 00:15:18,251.9014329 --> 00:15:19,331.9014329 Here are the notes on that. 141 00:15:19,331.9014329 --> 00:15:22,521.9014329 Here's what you should be prepping, right? a meeting researcher. 142 00:15:23,11.9014329 --> 00:15:32,691.9014329 But what I've created is an outbound growth loop, and essentially I'm able to take something as simple as your email address. 143 00:15:33,861.9014329 --> 00:15:44,411.9014329 I use a rep that I built to analyze it to figure out what persona you are based on our personas that I have input and if you're not, it'll spit you out somewhere else. 144 00:15:44,411.9014329 --> 00:15:49,61.9014329 But if you are one of my personas, it's gonna give me that analysis. 145 00:15:49,61.9014329 --> 00:15:53,121.9014329 It's going to give a unique coded link just for you. 146 00:15:53,811.9014329 --> 00:15:55,761.9014329 I can then drop that into my Lindy. 147 00:15:56,481.9014329 --> 00:15:57,471.9014329 And let it work. 148 00:15:57,771.9014329 --> 00:15:58,931.9014329 Wow, slick. 149 00:15:59,241.9014329 --> 00:16:02,571.9014329 It puts you in your persona based campaign. 150 00:16:03,121.9014329 --> 00:16:07,761.9014329 You can engage with the emails no matter where you are within the workflow. 151 00:16:07,791.9014329 --> 00:16:16,371.9014329 I've given it our documentation, our website, our brand tone, and a personality so it understands how to respond to you if it needs to respond to you. 152 00:16:16,891.9014329 --> 00:16:19,651.9014329 And then there's a lot of like bailout points like. 153 00:16:20,26.9014329 --> 00:16:22,906.9014329 Maybe the first email bounced, it bells you out. 154 00:16:22,956.9014329 --> 00:16:32,916.9014329 You've said unsubscribe bells you out or you've asked a question and then it also bells you out of the campaign, right? Like the drip campaign and now puts you into a one-to-one with me. 155 00:16:33,396.9014329 --> 00:16:35,546.9014329 And for me, that's a superpower. 156 00:16:35,546.9014329 --> 00:16:53,891.9014329 I'm a go to market marketing, sales, I'm all the things right now, right? how do I create a brand voice while also getting that brand out to people? this is one of the ways I'm doing it and it's incredible how many people it can, touch within just a couple of months. 157 00:16:54,456.9014329 --> 00:16:55,866.9014329 talk about building some scale. 158 00:16:56,91.9014329 --> 00:16:57,561.9014329 Yeah, it's amazing. 159 00:16:57,641.9014329 --> 00:17:09,971.9014329 One thing that we talk about regularly is the question that so many marketing leaders have, which is how is AI changing B2B marketing? And I think diving into search and AI is probably a good topic. 160 00:17:09,971.9014329 --> 00:17:11,831.9014329 So let's just start with defining some terms. 161 00:17:11,881.9014329 --> 00:17:25,326.9014329 How do you delineate between AI visibility, optimization, and answer engine optimization for the B2B SaaS audience? Oh my gosh, y'all, the acronyms are just off the wall. 162 00:17:25,376.9014329 --> 00:17:33,396.9014329 Like I think we're still really figuring all that out, right? Perplexity calls himself an answers engine. 163 00:17:33,746.9014329 --> 00:17:35,756.9014329 You're not going to chacha PT for search results. 164 00:17:35,756.9014329 --> 00:17:37,376.9014329 You're going for answers. 165 00:17:37,376.9014329 --> 00:17:43,406.9014329 We still can't trust what is coming to us from an LLM, as an answer, right? But. 166 00:17:44,81.9014329 --> 00:17:47,981.9014329 LLMs learn in natural language, that conversational side of things. 167 00:17:47,981.9014329 --> 00:18:03,231.9014329 And so when we talk about the content we're putting out and how AIVO is just completely different from SEO, we are focused on more conversations and where we can be conversational. 168 00:18:03,231.9014329 --> 00:18:04,641.9014329 That's why podcasts are huge. 169 00:18:04,641.9014329 --> 00:18:10,781.9014329 The transcript for this is more important to me than a blog post, right? Blogs. 170 00:18:11,306.9014329 --> 00:18:14,126.9014329 Used to be about keyword stuffing, which was terrible. 171 00:18:14,216.9014329 --> 00:18:21,106.9014329 Anybody who's done any content in their lives will tell you I hated writing blogs because it was fit these five words in make it sound, whatever. 172 00:18:21,776.9014329 --> 00:18:28,986.9014329 Now with a AEO, we really get to focus on how LLMs learn, which, they need to learn new things. 173 00:18:29,736.9014329 --> 00:18:32,556.9014329 So it's like the golden era of content. 174 00:18:32,906.9014329 --> 00:18:33,716.9014329 We get to. 175 00:18:34,121.9014329 --> 00:18:35,231.9014329 Be conversational. 176 00:18:35,231.9014329 --> 00:18:36,731.9014329 We get to be a little more casual. 177 00:18:36,731.9014329 --> 00:18:43,851.9014329 We get to just talk, discuss, have q and a which is far superior to a keyword stuffed blog post. 178 00:18:43,921.9014329 --> 00:18:47,191.9014329 our blogs are actually flipped to where the blog content is. 179 00:18:47,191.9014329 --> 00:18:54,811.9014329 The last thing on the page, what we lead with is a podcast, a transcript, critical questions. 180 00:18:55,501.9014329 --> 00:19:05,721.9014329 And then we get to the blog because we know those conversational pieces are far more important than the H one H two, which is amazing and way more fun. 181 00:19:06,336.9014329 --> 00:19:08,826.9014329 Yeah, I really like that model and approach. 182 00:19:09,36.9014329 --> 00:19:17,971.9014329 Continuing on that thread, What core marketing assumptions are AI driven search engines challenging today? Oh my goodness. 183 00:19:17,971.9014329 --> 00:19:20,811.9014329 the first one is that it's very interesting right now. 184 00:19:20,841.9014329 --> 00:19:25,701.9014329 don't fall into the attribution trap, like LLMs don't pass referral headers. 185 00:19:25,701.9014329 --> 00:19:33,951.9014329 We're not tricking the LLMs, y'all we're not teaching the LLMs like, and if you think about Chachi, BT is still built on Bing. 186 00:19:34,731.9014329 --> 00:19:40,341.9014329 So if you really wanna work Chachi BT, you need to start advertising and getting better ranked over in Bing. 187 00:19:40,341.9014329 --> 00:19:41,91.9014329 I don't know. 188 00:19:41,511.9014329 --> 00:20:08,71.9014329 But Chachi, bt perplexity these guys are not gonna tell us how and why they're surfacing what they're surfacing Maybe that swings marketing back to the creative side, like the black box marketing of sometimes we really don't know what's working because we've fallen into such an attribution trap and performance marketing that we've been so obsessed with that A to B, now granted, I, track all the way to revenue, I wanna know. 189 00:20:08,866.9014329 --> 00:20:11,926.9014329 What marketing has done all the way down the funnel, but that's also a trap. 190 00:20:11,956.9014329 --> 00:20:17,566.9014329 And then the day of ai, like I don't know that attribution is getting better. 191 00:20:17,566.9014329 --> 00:20:19,156.9014329 I think it's gonna get worse. 192 00:20:19,256.9014329 --> 00:20:21,626.9014329 AI in itself is a huge experiment. 193 00:20:22,256.9014329 --> 00:20:28,136.9014329 All there's a ton of platforms topping up that are telling us like, here's how you're gonna do all these amazing things. 194 00:20:28,166.9014329 --> 00:20:29,936.9014329 Those are also an experiment. 195 00:20:29,936.9014329 --> 00:20:30,476.9014329 Even. 196 00:20:30,966.9014329 --> 00:20:34,806.9014329 Connecting Lindy to my calendar to give me research meeting notes. 197 00:20:34,806.9014329 --> 00:20:40,56.9014329 Is it gonna be right every time, or am I gonna walk in and be like, Erin is an astronaut. 198 00:20:40,56.9014329 --> 00:20:45,666.9014329 Where did you get that? It's because you said fly to space in your LinkedIn profile because you thought that was funny. 199 00:20:45,666.9014329 --> 00:20:52,786.9014329 we're back to experimentation and if I could tell everybody anything, it's that's okay. 200 00:20:52,836.9014329 --> 00:21:03,196.9014329 We are gonna fail at some of these things 'cause it's new for everybody but it's also really incredible and fun to see how much more you can do. 201 00:21:03,436.9014329 --> 00:21:08,736.9014329 The podcast I create are through Notebook, I put in my summary of what I want. 202 00:21:08,766.9014329 --> 00:21:15,246.9014329 I give it details, I give it tone, I've got my prompts for it, but then it creates a podcast. 203 00:21:15,861.9014329 --> 00:21:21,171.9014329 I have wanted or been asked to create a podcast everywhere I've worked for the past 10 years. 204 00:21:21,471.9014329 --> 00:21:24,761.9014329 especially when podcasts were up and coming, it was we have to have this right. 205 00:21:24,801.9014329 --> 00:21:33,211.9014329 you would not believe what it takes to build a podcast, we you would believe Ken and Erin know what I'm talking about. 206 00:21:33,666.9014329 --> 00:21:38,396.9014329 But I get to dabble in that, where I never would've been able to dabble in that. 207 00:21:38,456.9014329 --> 00:21:41,66.9014329 is it bringing me direct traffic? I don't know. 208 00:21:41,66.9014329 --> 00:21:42,326.9014329 Probably not at all. 209 00:21:42,326.9014329 --> 00:21:47,186.9014329 But it's still fun and a way that people learn. 210 00:21:47,236.9014329 --> 00:21:52,456.9014329 I have the ability to do it now for the first time ever, and I can get something going on that side. 211 00:21:52,871.9014329 --> 00:22:08,221.9014329 it could teach me and spearhead me to create a real podcast, this AI first world is just the stepping stone to teach you what you need to build, the end product or, end value. 212 00:22:08,351.9014329 --> 00:22:12,691.9014329 I think experimentation is core to what we're leaning into. 213 00:22:12,961.9014329 --> 00:22:22,261.9014329 I'm curious to get your thoughts on, there's so many marketers that are moving from SEO or maybe enhancing their SEO to get into AEO. 214 00:22:22,501.9014329 --> 00:22:35,596.9014329 What would a roadmap for growth leader that's looking to enhance their, placement in these LLMs, what would you say? I know, the first thing I would say is don't set yourself up for failure on this. 215 00:22:35,596.9014329 --> 00:22:36,526.9014329 This one's hard to track. 216 00:22:36,526.9014329 --> 00:22:37,576.9014329 This one's hard to do. 217 00:22:38,56.9014329 --> 00:22:43,516.9014329 But then it goes back to you have to put out something of value. 218 00:22:43,906.9014329 --> 00:22:46,546.9014329 We are not keyword stuffing. 219 00:22:46,576.9014329 --> 00:22:53,76.9014329 Remember when we would put like links, like hyperlinks to our company name and like different comment sections or whatever. 220 00:22:53,126.9014329 --> 00:23:01,926.9014329 we can't trick our way into this LLMs are built on that conversational aspect You also can't blog your way into it. 221 00:23:01,926.9014329 --> 00:23:13,176.9014329 I think that podcasts are gonna be the most powerful thing over the next five years in marketing, You have to make sure that you are recording with somebody who's putting the podcast on a platform that's letting LLMs learn. 222 00:23:13,636.9014329 --> 00:23:15,646.9014329 that's where you're going to get this natural language. 223 00:23:15,646.9014329 --> 00:23:19,576.9014329 That's where you're gonna get this really effective q and a in the transcript. 224 00:23:19,866.9014329 --> 00:23:21,906.9014329 And that's gonna be really powerful. 225 00:23:21,916.9014329 --> 00:23:38,116.9014329 If you had something that worked really well, like you should completely break it down into parts and then see how to AI optimize each of those parts to go back to a new plan All of these things are gonna be so much more impactful and they're harder. 226 00:23:38,811.9014329 --> 00:23:41,866.9014329 Yeah, it does seem to be a lot harder. 227 00:23:42,136.9014329 --> 00:23:46,186.9014329 there is this friction right about, hey there, we're doing this transformation. 228 00:23:46,186.9014329 --> 00:23:47,746.9014329 We don't actually know how to. 229 00:23:49,216.9014329 --> 00:23:53,956.9014329 Do this stuff yet but people get caught up in the whole KPI thing. 230 00:23:54,166.9014329 --> 00:24:06,796.9014329 Do you have any KPIs that people could look at measuring their AI VO success and maybe how that's different than traditional SEO? I have a Google Analytics report. 231 00:24:07,286.9014329 --> 00:24:28,546.9014329 that I can give y'all to share with the audience I can show you now or I can show you at the end, but for better or worse, it does show when people come in from perplexity or philanthropic or ChatGPT, there is a way to keep your finger on the pulse of it and understand It's still very black box. 232 00:24:28,546.9014329 --> 00:24:30,556.9014329 I don't know what brought them here. 233 00:24:30,556.9014329 --> 00:24:32,356.9014329 And you can't recreate it. 234 00:24:32,606.9014329 --> 00:24:38,366.9014329 one of the wildest things is talking to people and they're like, oh yeah, we're in all the LLMs. 235 00:24:38,466.9014329 --> 00:24:43,866.9014329 I could ask an LLM the same question five times in a row and it would gimme a different response every time. 236 00:24:43,866.9014329 --> 00:24:48,606.9014329 There is no, we're in the LLMs the KPIs are gonna be tough. 237 00:24:48,636.9014329 --> 00:24:52,196.9014329 I think it's the finger on the pulse, traffic to your site. 238 00:24:52,266.9014329 --> 00:24:53,496.9014329 You're gonna see bumps. 239 00:24:53,496.9014329 --> 00:25:01,96.9014329 Maybe you can't directly attribute that to ChatGPT, but keep growing and building on the things that are working. 240 00:25:01,766.9014329 --> 00:25:16,406.9014329 just like Quora had good SEO and if you could get questions answered about your product in Quora, that was a whole thing, right? If we think about Product Hunt having great SEO, if you're going after AI enthusiasts, it probably makes a lot of sense to launch on product Hunt. 241 00:25:16,876.9014329 --> 00:25:26,196.9014329 If we think about what Gemini and Google are about to do, youTube man, if it's on YouTube and you can get more built up on YouTube, you're probably gonna win this race. 242 00:25:26,246.9014329 --> 00:25:37,796.9014329 We're looking at some of the same KPIs that we've had, but making sure we're setting ourselves up for success and knowing that there is no true one-to-one yet. 243 00:25:38,486.9014329 --> 00:25:43,556.9014329 One of the things I was gonna ask you, I'm curious about the trends you're seeing on your dashboard. 244 00:25:43,556.9014329 --> 00:25:44,276.9014329 I have one. 245 00:25:44,741.9014329 --> 00:25:47,341.9014329 Tracking just referral from the LLMs. 246 00:25:47,401.9014329 --> 00:25:53,581.9014329 And one thing I'm noticing is that we see about 700% more time on site. 247 00:25:53,711.9014329 --> 00:26:01,151.9014329 my hypothesis is that people think that ChatGPT or perplexity are more of an authority on. 248 00:26:02,281.9014329 --> 00:26:09,641.9014329 What the answer is so then they come to the site and they're actually spending more time I don't know if that's true, but curious if you're seeing anything like that. 249 00:26:10,21.9014329 --> 00:26:21,551.9014329 now when I report on different marketing strategies and tactics And ask people can you help me push this, engage on this, build this, I usually do. 250 00:26:21,581.9014329 --> 00:26:22,901.9014329 I use that metric a lot. 251 00:26:22,901.9014329 --> 00:26:28,1.9014329 Hey, look, the people who come in from LinkedIn spend five X the time on our site. 252 00:26:28,1.9014329 --> 00:26:31,216.9014329 Then people who come in from a Google ad, so if you could please help me with LinkedIn. 253 00:26:31,521.9014329 --> 00:26:34,611.9014329 it gives people an anchor of why you've asked them to do something. 254 00:26:35,136.9014329 --> 00:26:41,176.9014329 The people who are coming in off of some of these LLMs are definitely staying longer. 255 00:26:42,206.9014329 --> 00:26:44,656.9014329 it has to be, a smarter response. 256 00:26:44,846.9014329 --> 00:26:49,646.9014329 I've given you something conversational on my site to deep dive into a little bit more. 257 00:26:50,256.9014329 --> 00:26:56,326.9014329 if we just talk about how broken Google search was right? there's a restaurant cattycorner to my office. 258 00:26:56,711.9014329 --> 00:27:01,801.9014329 we were planning a lunch My colleague is vegan, so I'm like, let me look up the menu. 259 00:27:02,161.9014329 --> 00:27:03,991.9014329 I put in the restaurant's full name. 260 00:27:04,21.9014329 --> 00:27:18,671.9014329 It's five words or four words, like Austin, Texas, in Google, and what came up AD for DoorDash, GrubHub like food delivery, can I just get the menu? I just wanna see if they have vegan options. 261 00:27:19,121.9014329 --> 00:27:26,986.9014329 had I landed somewhere that said, yes, there are vegan options at Lazarus, and here's what I would've spent more time being okay, double. 262 00:27:27,16.9014329 --> 00:27:33,166.9014329 This is great, but instead I got a bunch of menus through delivery services, which I would've Bounced. 263 00:27:33,166.9014329 --> 00:27:35,140.9014329 That's not exactly what I wanted. 264 00:27:35,140.9014329 --> 00:27:40,120.9014329 You just tried to predict what I wanted and that's why a Google search is dead. 265 00:27:40,390.9014329 --> 00:27:41,170.9014329 if we can. 266 00:27:42,115.9014329 --> 00:27:44,275.9014329 Start to train these LLMs. 267 00:27:44,275.9014329 --> 00:27:46,735.9014329 Teach them, train them like that. 268 00:27:46,735.9014329 --> 00:27:49,855.9014329 What we have is valuable to come to our site with different questions. 269 00:27:49,855.9014329 --> 00:28:04,705.9014329 You will have people spending more time there, but you also probably spent more time on the content and you built it out to be A EO specific, There's a lot of layers there, but that is why people want more of that traffic because It is engaged. 270 00:28:06,190.9014329 --> 00:28:07,510.9014329 Yeah, and it's how people are gonna buy. 271 00:28:08,65.9014329 --> 00:28:09,420.9014329 Oh buying behavior's changing. 272 00:28:09,985.9014329 --> 00:28:26,755.9014329 When I first started at Perigon, we call it a context engine because the idea is not that you get search results or that you get answers, it's that you get full context around what you've asked, I remember being on the phone with a journalist that I highly admire, giving him a demo, he types in Russia. 273 00:28:26,995.9014329 --> 00:28:28,795.9014329 And it's just an insane amount of information. 274 00:28:28,795.9014329 --> 00:28:30,685.9014329 There's no context and none of it makes sense. 275 00:28:30,685.9014329 --> 00:28:31,855.9014329 I was like, okay. 276 00:28:32,5.9014329 --> 00:28:36,445.9014329 Can you ask it something more specific like Zelensky versus Putin. 277 00:28:36,445.9014329 --> 00:28:43,335.9014329 Give it more of what you actually wanna see and then it's gonna give you something a lot more valuable. 278 00:28:43,875.9014329 --> 00:28:49,35.9014329 this idea that we had to change user behavior was very scary. 279 00:28:49,135.9014329 --> 00:28:52,885.9014329 Nobody wants to build a product or you have to change behavior. 280 00:28:53,455.9014329 --> 00:28:57,205.9014329 But it is so quickly, user behavior has completely changed. 281 00:28:57,415.9014329 --> 00:28:59,430.9014329 The average Google search is three words. 282 00:28:59,515.9014329 --> 00:29:13,540.9014329 The average search and Perigon perplexity is 14 to 16 words like humans immediately saw the benefit and started to learn that asking in a different way was gonna net. 283 00:29:13,855.9014329 --> 00:29:15,175.9014329 What they wanted. 284 00:29:15,385.9014329 --> 00:29:17,755.9014329 And so that's also been really interesting. 285 00:29:17,785.9014329 --> 00:29:20,820.9014329 We're changing user behavior, changing human behavior. 286 00:29:20,820.9014329 --> 00:29:24,780.9014329 Who thought that was gonna happen? Google had a choke hold on the market. 287 00:29:24,820.9014329 --> 00:29:34,560.9014329 one reason I went to Loud Crowd when I did is 'cause they wanted to disrupt advertising Alphabet and Google spun out because Google was like, somebody's gonna disrupt advertising. 288 00:29:35,760.9014329 --> 00:29:40,170.9014329 I don't know if they knew it was gonna be search, but it's here. 289 00:29:40,170.9014329 --> 00:29:45,380.9014329 It's been disrupted and it's an incredible study in human behavior. 290 00:29:46,440.9014329 --> 00:29:48,160.9014329 that cash cow is thirsty. 291 00:29:49,910.9014329 --> 00:29:53,50.9014329 think about, the perplexity adding in ads or shopping. 292 00:29:53,350.9014329 --> 00:29:53,640.9014329 Yeah. 293 00:29:53,880.9014329 --> 00:30:04,960.9014329 People are thinking about this because of the human behavior of how we put in more context so we feel more comfortable with the result, right? I've put work into my query. 294 00:30:04,960.9014329 --> 00:30:14,760.9014329 So what I get back I have more confidence in If you can figure out how to get your sneaker to be the first one that comes up, you're probably gonna be in a good place. 295 00:30:16,540.9014329 --> 00:30:18,430.9014329 Reddit threads on Reddit threads. 296 00:30:19,495.9014329 --> 00:30:23,395.9014329 I hate to say and I'm still trying to figure it out, but Reddit is gonna be huge. 297 00:30:23,395.9014329 --> 00:30:30,565.9014329 Conversations in Reddit are gonna continue to be a huge strategy that we all have to get behind. 298 00:30:30,715.9014329 --> 00:30:32,35.9014329 I can't manipulate that. 299 00:30:32,845.9014329 --> 00:30:38,125.9014329 And I think that's the point with a lot of where this marketing stuff is going. 300 00:30:38,135.9014329 --> 00:30:39,425.9014329 people can't be manipulated. 301 00:30:39,425.9014329 --> 00:30:40,205.9014329 They're tired of it. 302 00:30:40,205.9014329 --> 00:30:41,525.9014329 They're tired of Google ads. 303 00:30:41,525.9014329 --> 00:30:42,100.9014329 gimme the door. 304 00:30:42,555.9014329 --> 00:30:44,805.9014329 I don't want the door dash with the actual menu. 305 00:30:45,285.9014329 --> 00:30:59,445.9014329 And that, I think, I know we mentioned TikTok and y'all may have a deeper question, but that's why TikTok took off, We were finding people explaining things in a way that met us where we wanted to be, and we loved it. 306 00:30:59,545.9014329 --> 00:31:01,255.9014329 That goes back to user behavior. 307 00:31:01,305.9014329 --> 00:31:11,235.9014329 Instagram became so overwhelming ads, and it's just a photo, and it's usually a photo that was very curated and very filtered and very fit. 308 00:31:11,285.9014329 --> 00:31:14,285.9014329 And then TikTok comes along and it's like raw authenticity. 309 00:31:14,285.9014329 --> 00:31:17,105.9014329 Just start videoing yourself and doing whatever. 310 00:31:17,105.9014329 --> 00:31:23,715.9014329 Now all that's changing but it still felt like a more authentic way to get information and that's why it took off. 311 00:31:24,870.9014329 --> 00:31:30,300.9014329 Switching gears a little bit, we're gonna go into our gladiator round if you are ready. 312 00:31:31,20.9014329 --> 00:31:38,610.9014329 gladiator is where Lacey is gonna show us how she does something live and give a real how to example. 313 00:31:38,660.9014329 --> 00:31:46,45.9014329 Are you ready for the challenge? sometimes I think I've nailed down this AI and I've gotten it to be like this rapid course of things. 314 00:31:46,45.9014329 --> 00:31:50,265.9014329 And it's not like you gotta go all over the place, Sorry about that, everybody. 315 00:31:51,505.9014329 --> 00:31:59,485.9014329 This is something I built in rep lit, which is more of a low code, assistant to build an app that you need. 316 00:31:59,485.9014329 --> 00:32:09,315.9014329 And what I need is a way to analyze, like I spoke about earlier, The lowest barrier to entry on these things like an email address. 317 00:32:09,315.9014329 --> 00:32:16,315.9014329 So if I can start with an email address, there's obviously a lot in here. 318 00:32:17,225.9014329 --> 00:32:28,955.9014329 I've got my classification result, the personas in AI tech, my type, my landing, URL, that's customized to that email address, You can see my persona profiles here at the bottom. 319 00:32:28,955.9014329 --> 00:32:46,215.9014329 I can upload a whole bulk one, but it's a great way for me to start and understand, a breakdown of the personas and get ready to market to them next I'm gonna show you my Lindy, this is only two arms of my campaign. 320 00:32:46,265.9014329 --> 00:32:49,475.9014329 This is where I'm gonna drop you in one of two ways. 321 00:32:49,685.9014329 --> 00:32:56,735.9014329 It's got conditions, it's gonna do the persona differentiation here, and then it's gonna start down this outreach. 322 00:32:56,895.9014329 --> 00:33:01,65.9014329 If there's a reply received, we're gonna cancel so you're not still in there. 323 00:33:01,225.9014329 --> 00:33:06,625.9014329 this thing is about to be a huge spider web, because I'm gonna add two more personas. 324 00:33:06,995.9014329 --> 00:33:08,435.9014329 this is about growth. 325 00:33:08,495.9014329 --> 00:33:10,55.9014329 That growth flywheel. 326 00:33:10,55.9014329 --> 00:33:15,255.9014329 This goes back to the whole idea of go to market engineering. 327 00:33:15,315.9014329 --> 00:33:25,35.9014329 I have to think like somebody building a product, which I'm building apps to help assist me in what I'm doing. 328 00:33:25,575.9014329 --> 00:33:31,245.9014329 Even with this, I'm still talking to it with natural language. 329 00:33:31,515.9014329 --> 00:33:39,505.9014329 There's still a lot of pieces in here where you will say I renamed it, wait, four minutes required. 330 00:33:39,505.9014329 --> 00:33:45,745.9014329 all of these new AI tools are also teaching us that we are not just inputs. 331 00:33:46,325.9014329 --> 00:33:48,65.9014329 We're not a workflow in HubSpot. 332 00:33:48,115.9014329 --> 00:33:56,515.9014329 There's a lot of natural language in this Lindy that tells you if the user responds, here's how to respond to it. 333 00:33:56,515.9014329 --> 00:33:58,105.9014329 Here's tone to use. 334 00:33:58,105.9014329 --> 00:34:01,825.9014329 And so I get to inject a lot more customization. 335 00:34:02,860.9014329 --> 00:34:10,940.9014329 But it's also a completely different way that I'm approaching things because the robots have taught us how to be more human. 336 00:34:12,555.9014329 --> 00:34:25,100.9014329 Curious why Lindy versus n8n what made you select Lindy over some of the other tools out there? Zapier, used to be my integration tool of choice, my connector, but now I haven't thought about it. 337 00:34:25,180.9014329 --> 00:34:33,240.9014329 Lindy is more natural language, I know in n8n Cursor, like those get more into the weeds on code. 338 00:34:33,730.9014329 --> 00:34:36,700.9014329 I'm just not as comfortable coding now. 339 00:34:37,540.9014329 --> 00:34:50,115.9014329 Replit also has that, every marketer on the planet needs to get into rep learn, rep lit, I've got four up here one of them compares search results from across LLMs. 340 00:34:50,545.9014329 --> 00:34:54,535.9014329 One of them builds specific queries back to my personas. 341 00:34:54,535.9014329 --> 00:34:56,965.9014329 I drop in an email address, it builds you a query. 342 00:34:57,710.9014329 --> 00:35:01,460.9014329 For our signals tool, which is like an AI powered Google alert. 343 00:35:02,40.9014329 --> 00:35:09,640.9014329 I've got all these different things and gives me that code plus more natural language stuff. 344 00:35:09,640.9014329 --> 00:35:12,910.9014329 once I fell in love with the tool, I just wanted to get really good at that tool. 345 00:35:14,135.9014329 --> 00:35:22,55.9014329 One thing that I have found there's a lot of legacy tools who are trying to integrate AI and they're like, we're so great at this. 346 00:35:22,55.9014329 --> 00:35:23,825.9014329 And it's just absolutely not. 347 00:35:23,925.9014329 --> 00:35:26,265.9014329 one in particular made me so irritated the other day. 348 00:35:26,265.9014329 --> 00:35:27,945.9014329 I was like, I've completely jumped out. 349 00:35:27,945.9014329 --> 00:35:31,985.9014329 Like I am building full on landing pages in Replit. 350 00:35:32,685.9014329 --> 00:35:47,195.9014329 I get it on a subdomain, I can run ads to it Instead of the website tool that I have, right? What is wrong with this picture? But I think once you learn something, and like I said, there's a lot more natural language with Rept, Lindy some of these others. 351 00:35:47,195.9014329 --> 00:35:54,115.9014329 And I really like that because that's what's been most consistent across really strong AI tools is the really good ones. 352 00:35:54,175.9014329 --> 00:35:55,975.9014329 Need that natural language. 353 00:36:01,60.9014329 --> 00:36:03,730.9014329 So you mentioned TikTok, so I'm gonna go ahead and ask. 354 00:36:04,390.9014329 --> 00:36:15,350.9014329 Many B2B leaders are skeptical of TikTok, but there's a lot of B2B marketers feel like they need to know about how AI is going to transform, especially social. 355 00:36:15,590.9014329 --> 00:36:33,155.9014329 So what's a strategic role for B2B companies who are eyeing things like TikTok? what's an argument that you would give them that they should be doing this right now? What's interesting is it feels like TikTok and this AI movement was. 356 00:36:33,495.9014329 --> 00:36:42,865.9014329 a proof point that a younger generation was really tired of how we were getting information, right? They didn't wanna be sold to, they all went to places where they felt like they weren't being sold to. 357 00:36:43,345.9014329 --> 00:36:49,645.9014329 The thing about TikTok is it's frontline discovery, right? it is of all the social media. 358 00:36:49,765.9014329 --> 00:36:56,215.9014329 Sometimes I put YouTube and social media, sometimes not, but it's almost that same idea, like that's where I can go and discover new things. 359 00:36:57,80.9014329 --> 00:37:03,530.9014329 it's funny 'cause I'm always using a claw to do analysis or chat to ask questions. 360 00:37:03,580.9014329 --> 00:37:09,825.9014329 Before I came on this podcast, I was like, how are people like attribution for TikTok? Let's dig into the weeds on attribution. 361 00:37:09,825.9014329 --> 00:37:15,60.9014329 'cause I wanna be able to talk to how you're going to really be able to track this or prove out the ROI. 362 00:37:15,60.9014329 --> 00:37:17,910.9014329 it's a blend of dark social and engagement loop. 363 00:37:17,990.9014329 --> 00:37:28,240.9014329 Which essentially means unless they engage with you in some other way, you're not really gonna know that TikTok is that revenue driver or really pinpoint that ROI. 364 00:37:29,80.9014329 --> 00:37:30,580.9014329 But you almost have to be on there. 365 00:37:30,580.9014329 --> 00:37:32,170.9014329 It gives your brain a personality. 366 00:37:32,230.9014329 --> 00:37:35,710.9014329 People want to buy from a human. 367 00:37:35,920.9014329 --> 00:37:38,230.9014329 They no longer want to buy from a brand. 368 00:37:38,510.9014329 --> 00:37:49,110.9014329 when I first started my marketing career people would say nobody ever got fired for buying IBM, right? IBM was trusted and had every resource on the planet. 369 00:37:49,110.9014329 --> 00:37:51,360.9014329 And it's now you would get fired for buying IBM. 370 00:37:51,360.9014329 --> 00:37:59,520.9014329 'cause you probably spent seven figures and it's gonna take seven years to implement and then 10 more years to get any ROI. 371 00:37:59,520.9014329 --> 00:38:04,660.9014329 Like now it's more, especially in startup world like. 372 00:38:05,485.9014329 --> 00:38:11,575.9014329 Who, what companies are like me, what companies are also innovative. 373 00:38:11,665.9014329 --> 00:38:13,855.9014329 They're also where my community is. 374 00:38:13,855.9014329 --> 00:38:33,645.9014329 They're also where my persona is because I wanna be fully immersed in like finding companies like that And so I think one of the biggest hurdles right now with startups is that You are finding somebody who's up for experimentation, you are finding somebody who will buy your product and check it out for a year. 375 00:38:34,555.9014329 --> 00:38:38,365.9014329 if you do not bring the ROI in that year that was just an experiment. 376 00:38:38,365.9014329 --> 00:38:40,795.9014329 We spent 20 grand, we tried it and now we're done. 377 00:38:40,885.9014329 --> 00:38:48,475.9014329 And so I think that's also why TikTok is scary for people, because that's not where you're finding this 10 year contract kind of thing. 378 00:38:48,475.9014329 --> 00:38:58,135.9014329 this really is where you're going to have to engage in a completely different way because you know that persona is always looking for what's better. 379 00:38:59,735.9014329 --> 00:39:10,570.9014329 talking about that engagement, what do you think is from a content strategy perspective landing and are there creative formats people are using? For B2B, it's this kind of unknown frontier. 380 00:39:10,570.9014329 --> 00:39:34,490.9014329 curious to get your take Duolingo wins the day, right? it's B2B, and you are precise in what brand you're putting out there, but this is about being human the formats that work are being a little more open to the trending sounds, right? Getting in on the trends, getting half your team dancing in the office, there's not a formula for we're gonna be this and sound just like this. 381 00:39:34,490.9014329 --> 00:39:47,140.9014329 You have to meet people where they are and can't be scared to do rounds of the dance deleting, going back and redoing You really have to get out there, and I think that's what makes it hard for a lot of people. 382 00:39:47,190.9014329 --> 00:39:49,950.9014329 it's easy to sit behind your laptop instead of Google ads. 383 00:39:50,580.9014329 --> 00:39:55,20.9014329 It's hard to be the face on the camera who's doing a dance in your office. 384 00:39:55,70.9014329 --> 00:40:01,280.9014329 Do you know how terrible that sounds I think COVID hits and we're stuck at home and I'm the only person having to do the tiktoks. 385 00:40:01,330.9014329 --> 00:40:02,800.9014329 But it's consistency. 386 00:40:02,800.9014329 --> 00:40:03,880.9014329 You gotta keep doing it. 387 00:40:03,910.9014329 --> 00:40:10,290.9014329 And then it really is finding what's trending and there's something very authentic about that and that's why people buy into your brand. 388 00:40:10,320.9014329 --> 00:40:11,70.9014329 you gotta be there. 389 00:40:11,70.9014329 --> 00:40:12,90.9014329 You gotta meet people where they are. 390 00:40:15,75.9014329 --> 00:40:19,190.9014329 Ken, we're probably late for the Apple dance, Oh I would say my 9-year-old daughter does that one. 391 00:40:19,240.9014329 --> 00:40:21,15.9014329 you might be a little late that's the only one I know. 392 00:40:24,195.9014329 --> 00:40:28,285.9014329 Okay, I've got a Mel Robbins soundbite that I'm gonna remix. 393 00:40:28,415.9014329 --> 00:40:31,445.9014329 she's talking about mixed signals and we have a product called Signals. 394 00:40:31,445.9014329 --> 00:40:33,605.9014329 So I was like, okay, I can do something with that. 395 00:40:33,605.9014329 --> 00:40:36,275.9014329 Y'all, you gotta put time on your calendar. 396 00:40:36,305.9014329 --> 00:40:41,155.9014329 You have to have TikTok hour, and that is exactly the only time I've had it succeed. 397 00:40:41,545.9014329 --> 00:40:50,705.9014329 We used to do TikTok Happy hour and everyone would come together and help with ideas, be a part of the content share it, whatever it may be. 398 00:40:50,755.9014329 --> 00:40:54,835.9014329 you gotta put the time aside because the more. 399 00:40:55,615.9014329 --> 00:41:01,105.9014329 Natural and easy that TikTok video looks the harder it was to produce. 400 00:41:01,405.9014329 --> 00:41:01,915.9014329 Yeah. 401 00:41:02,555.9014329 --> 00:41:03,485.9014329 it's a commitment. 402 00:41:03,485.9014329 --> 00:41:04,625.9014329 you gotta commit and be authentic. 403 00:41:05,585.9014329 --> 00:41:09,65.9014329 Wise insights, you're hearing it here. 404 00:41:09,290.9014329 --> 00:41:16,910.9014329 Here at Futurecraft, we're all about giving our listeners quick hits of knowledge so that they can keep going on with their day. 405 00:41:17,10.9014329 --> 00:41:18,835.9014329 are you ready for a lightning round? Yes. 406 00:41:18,885.9014329 --> 00:41:21,175.9014329 Just first thing that comes to mind, Okay. 407 00:41:22,130.9014329 --> 00:41:32,820.9014329 What is the single most impactful action they can take in the first 30 days? AI first, like you gotta build the GPT so that you have a tone. 408 00:41:32,820.9014329 --> 00:41:37,440.9014329 You have a robot that knows what it's supposed to be like, what inputs you're gonna give it, and what it's gonna spit out. 409 00:41:37,870.9014329 --> 00:41:43,750.9014329 then you gotta create the podcast, get the transcript, and use your LLM of choice to create critical questions. 410 00:41:43,780.9014329 --> 00:41:55,200.9014329 And sometimes I tell people the critical questions or like when you're in a cocktail party and somebody brings up a conversation and you have a question that stops down everyone. 411 00:41:55,320.9014329 --> 00:41:56,760.9014329 Those are the critical questions. 412 00:41:56,760.9014329 --> 00:41:58,860.9014329 Those are the things that you need and want. 413 00:41:58,860.9014329 --> 00:42:01,290.9014329 And then you just gotta turn it out and commit to it. 414 00:42:01,320.9014329 --> 00:42:02,670.9014329 Consistency is key. 415 00:42:02,670.9014329 --> 00:42:09,470.9014329 And making sure that those transcripts and conversations are growing outside of your own owned content. 416 00:42:10,950.9014329 --> 00:42:15,810.9014329 What is a high ROI B2B content format people should try. 417 00:42:16,970.9014329 --> 00:42:18,50.9014329 That's the podcast. 418 00:42:18,170.9014329 --> 00:42:23,120.9014329 There are two characters podcast host on there. 419 00:42:23,170.9014329 --> 00:42:24,580.9014329 it's so natural. 420 00:42:24,580.9014329 --> 00:42:25,180.9014329 It's crazy. 421 00:42:25,865.9014329 --> 00:42:31,865.9014329 And fun I'll send my CEO and be like, look, you don't have to read the blog post, but you can listen to it on your way home. 422 00:42:32,445.9014329 --> 00:42:35,195.9014329 it feels odd, like they're not human. 423 00:42:35,195.9014329 --> 00:42:39,495.9014329 And you're taking away from the real reality of podcasts, which is so amazing. 424 00:42:40,60.9014329 --> 00:42:43,420.9014329 But you have to do it because of the content that comes off of it. 425 00:42:43,480.9014329 --> 00:42:46,60.9014329 Honestly, I don't care if anybody listens to the actual podcast. 426 00:42:46,60.9014329 --> 00:42:48,910.9014329 I need the critical questions and I need the transcript off of it. 427 00:42:49,695.9014329 --> 00:42:58,460.9014329 What's one core belief you hold about marketing that most of your peers would probably disagree with? Probably this idea that we're. 428 00:42:58,850.9014329 --> 00:43:03,320.9014329 Building products, like we're no longer just building a marketing strategy. 429 00:43:03,840.9014329 --> 00:43:15,705.9014329 you have to be building an actual product within your org that creates a flywheel, that creates growth, that creates greater output than the input. 430 00:43:17,580.9014329 --> 00:43:23,680.9014329 How do you keep up with ai? Perigon has a signals tool and is built across several LLMs. 431 00:43:23,680.9014329 --> 00:43:28,435.9014329 I can build alerts to give me exactly what I need I've got different. 432 00:43:28,860.9014329 --> 00:43:34,620.9014329 Markets, industries and personas wrapped in with AI technology, AI announcements, product announcements. 433 00:43:34,620.9014329 --> 00:43:41,460.9014329 I've got these very great queries built out so that I essentially have my own, digest. 434 00:43:41,770.9014329 --> 00:43:46,730.9014329 I open those up every morning and get real context about what's going on and what's hit. 435 00:43:47,220.9014329 --> 00:43:56,450.9014329 I can also do it in real time sometimes during a TikTok happy hour so that I can start TikTok by being like, here's exactly what's hitting right now. 436 00:43:58,15.9014329 --> 00:44:00,115.9014329 Lacey, thank you so much for joining us. 437 00:44:00,325.9014329 --> 00:44:06,525.9014329 Great insights, and I feel like I got quite a few tips that I need to go try, including maybe TikTok. 438 00:44:06,525.9014329 --> 00:44:08,40.9014329 I can't wait to see your dances. 439 00:44:08,325.9014329 --> 00:44:09,585.9014329 Got my dances going. 440 00:44:09,615.9014329 --> 00:44:13,175.9014329 I think to wrap everything up nothing about this is easier. 441 00:44:13,205.9014329 --> 00:44:16,325.9014329 Nothing about AI first is easier. 442 00:44:16,825.9014329 --> 00:44:26,935.9014329 Some people are saying it's lower the bar and raise the bar, right? Like lower barrier to entry, but that means that your output has gotta be way stronger. 443 00:44:27,445.9014329 --> 00:44:30,925.9014329 And so there's something much harder about that. 444 00:44:30,925.9014329 --> 00:44:32,725.9014329 But then also like really exciting. 445 00:44:34,230.9014329 --> 00:44:34,620.9014329 agree. 446 00:44:34,995.9014329 --> 00:44:35,325.9014329 Great. 447 00:44:35,385.9014329 --> 00:44:38,285.9014329 Thank you for joining Thank you enjoyed the conversation. 448 00:44:39,10.9014329 --> 00:44:40,210.9014329 We'll be right back. 449 00:44:41,980.9014329 --> 00:44:55,274.8105412 uh, uh, uh, um, uh, uh, What did you learn? At the very end, Lacey said something that stuck with me. 450 00:44:56,74.8105412 --> 00:44:59,974.8105412 The barrier of entry is lower, but the expectation is higher. 451 00:45:00,244.8105412 --> 00:45:14,254.8105412 And I think we're gonna be seeing that not just for TikTok, but multiple channels, LinkedIn, any social network, YouTube especially, people are gonna be able to do more because of what AI can offer, but the viewers are gonna be expecting more from it. 452 00:45:14,254.8105412 --> 00:45:19,624.8105412 So I think that's a good mindset to have even starting right now for anyone who's creating content. 453 00:45:20,249.8105412 --> 00:45:30,194.8105412 I think in AI and SA marketing and content marketing, it's gonna be super critical to have high quality, high value things that people are actually curious about. 454 00:45:31,319.8105412 --> 00:45:39,269.8105412 And B2B leaders are asking, how is AI going to change B2B marketing? And Lacey really answered some of those. 455 00:45:39,569.8105412 --> 00:45:59,284.8105412 I'm curious, Erin, what did you take away from our chat? I think the one thing that was really interesting to me was her example of connecting her outbound engine, it was a great example of how somebody in a smaller marketing team can extend their reach and scale up their efforts. 456 00:45:59,324.8105412 --> 00:46:02,264.8105412 you can be a marketer, but you can also be somebody that's. 457 00:46:02,579.8105412 --> 00:46:10,139.8105412 Doing sales, you could be somebody that is a part of product and AI helps enable all of those activities. 458 00:46:10,249.8105412 --> 00:46:18,339.8105412 really impressed with how to, categorize people into the right ICP and then serve up the right message at the right time. 459 00:46:18,699.8105412 --> 00:46:20,310.8105412 And a way that, what if. 460 00:46:20,969.8105412 --> 00:46:23,939.8105412 Been expensive probably before. 461 00:46:24,129.8105412 --> 00:46:34,449.8105412 And not needing somebody who is an engineer or a ops person, but just a go to market engineer is pretty impactful and powerful, for teams that are looking to scale and grow. 462 00:46:35,534.8105412 --> 00:46:39,254.8105412 I'll be curious to see how quickly that evolves, like that personalization aspect. 463 00:46:39,814.8105412 --> 00:46:41,314.8105412 Marketers are hungry for that. 464 00:46:41,374.8105412 --> 00:46:42,484.8105412 Salespeople are hungry for that. 465 00:46:42,484.8105412 --> 00:46:43,204.8105412 Everyone wants it. 466 00:46:43,504.8105412 --> 00:46:44,934.8105412 Buyers are hungry for it. 467 00:46:44,934.8105412 --> 00:46:53,914.8105412 I read a stat last year that 78% of buyers are looking for personalization and then when they don't get it, they're super disappointed. 468 00:46:53,914.8105412 --> 00:46:58,714.8105412 I think as consumers we now expect that personalized experience. 469 00:46:58,714.8105412 --> 00:47:02,524.8105412 And so if we're not getting it from a B2B experience, it's gonna be a turnoff. 470 00:47:03,484.8105412 --> 00:47:05,764.8105412 I would love more personalized advertisements. 471 00:47:05,764.8105412 --> 00:47:07,279.8105412 I would buy more if they were relevant to me. 472 00:47:09,154.8105412 --> 00:47:16,124.8105412 I will make sure to, be getting some TikTok dances over to you in short order, I hate that dance. 473 00:47:16,154.8105412 --> 00:47:16,544.8105412 I hate it. 474 00:47:16,544.8105412 --> 00:47:17,414.8105412 It doesn't even make sense. 475 00:47:17,414.8105412 --> 00:47:18,284.8105412 It's so spastic. 476 00:47:18,334.8105412 --> 00:47:21,604.8105412 Thanks Lacey Miller for joining us today on Future Craft. 477 00:47:21,634.8105412 --> 00:47:28,684.8105412 Really enjoyed the conversation, and thanks to everybody who is watching or listening or however you're consuming this content. 478 00:47:28,804.8105412 --> 00:47:30,814.8105412 Maybe reading the transcript on our website. 479 00:47:31,534.8105412 --> 00:47:34,484.8105412 Please give us a share with a friend or leave us a comment. 480 00:47:34,634.8105412 --> 00:47:37,364.8105412 We also wanna hear from you, thanks again for tuning in. 481 00:47:38,749.8105412 --> 00:47:43,64.8105412 And until next time, let's keep crafting the future of go to market together. 482 00:47:43,664.8105412 --> 00:47:44,834.8105412 Thank you. 483 00:47:44,834.8105412 --> 00:47:44,894.8105412 Bye. 484 00:47:44,899.8105412 --> 00:47:45,119.8105412 Bye.