GTM 2.0: Coach K on Winning with AI-Driven Strategy

This episode covers the transformational impact of AI on go-to-market strategies. The episode kicks off with Ken sharing about his custom baking assistant, Idiot Proof Bake Buddy, which organizes baking recipes and grocery lists using GPT. 

 

The main highlight of the episode is the interview with Jonathan Kvarfordt a.k.a. Coach K. He is the Head of Growth at Momentum.io and CEO of GTM AI Academy. Coach K discusses the current state and future trends of AI in go-to-market functions. He emphasizes the importance of trust, education, and intent when implementing AI solutions. He also explores the mindset shifts necessary for successful AI integration and shares his vision of an 'Iron Man' style AI plugin for enhanced go-to-market efficiency. The conversation covers practical tips for AI adoption, common pitfalls, and the evolving roles of sales and marketing in an AI-driven landscape. The episode concludes with a rapid-fire round where Coach K shares insights on AI tools, prompting techniques, and industry trends.

 

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Disclaimer

00:22 Meet Your Hosts: Ken and Erin

00:54 Ken's Custom GPT for Baking

02:13 Erin's GPT Tips and Tricks

03:53 Guest Introduction: Jonathan Kvarfordt

04:29 Jonathan's Journey and Roles

05:19 AI in Go-To-Market Teams

06:28 Challenges and Overwhelm in AI Adoption

06:57 Practical AI Workflows and Automations

10:27 Trust, Education, and Intent in AI

13:57 Intentional Use of AI in Teams

18:21 Common Pitfalls in AI Implementation

19:21 The Importance of Creative AI Prompting

19:43 Mindset Shifts for AI Adoption

20:02 The Four C's of AI Mindset

21:26 Leadership and AI Integration

22:52 Sales and Marketing Alignment with AI

25:10 Future of AI in Business Roles

26:48 Human-AI Collaboration in Go-to-Market Strategies

33:26 Rapid Fire Round: AI Tools and Trends

35:00 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

 

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
.999Hey crafters.
Just a reminder, this podcast is for informational entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. 3 00:00:08,330.0000000002 --> 00:00:18,10.001 The views and opinions expressed our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work with are associated with, or have worked with in the past. 4 00:00:18,610.001 --> 00:00:20,530.001 for tuning in to the FutureCraft podcast. 5 00:00:20,800.001 --> 00:00:21,770.001 Let's get it started. 6 00:00:22,820.001 --> 00:00:23,390.001 Hey there. 7 00:00:23,420.001 --> 00:00:32,780.001 Welcome to the Future Craft GTM podcast, where we're exploring how AI is changing all things go to market, from awareness to loyalty, and everything in between. 8 00:00:33,230.001 --> 00:00:36,80.001 I'm Ken Rodin, one of your guides on this exciting new journey. 9 00:00:36,690.001 --> 00:00:41,250.001 I am Erin Mills, your other co-host, and together we're here to unpack the future of AI and go to market. 10 00:00:41,490.001 --> 00:00:48,510.001 We're going to share some best practices, how tos and interview industry leaders and pioneers who are paving the way in AI and go to market. 11 00:00:50,775.001 --> 00:00:58,30.001 All right, Ken, so how are you paving the way this week? I am a big baker, and Sundays we bake on our house. 12 00:00:58,30.001 --> 00:01:07,930.001 I am looking for new recipes all the time, but one of the challenges I have is sometimes those recipes don't have every detail you need to make the recipe. 13 00:01:08,20.001 --> 00:01:12,10.001 It might be a temperature thing, it might be the tools I have. 14 00:01:12,60.001 --> 00:01:13,530.001 Anyway, I always stumble into something. 15 00:01:13,800.001 --> 00:01:18,400.001 So what I've done is I've created a custom GPT called Idiot Proof Bake Buddy. 16 00:01:18,610.001 --> 00:01:22,240.001 And what it does is I put the I put the recipe in. 17 00:01:22,530.001 --> 00:01:27,90.001 It will then lay out the ingredients by the aisle of the grocery store. 18 00:01:27,210.001 --> 00:01:27,430.001 Ooh. 19 00:01:28,65.001 --> 00:01:33,645.001 where I walk through the grocery store, I need to pick up the things and then it will tell me things that I need to prep. 20 00:01:33,645.001 --> 00:01:37,185.001 So it's like before you go to the grocery store, you can do these things when you come back. 21 00:01:37,215.001 --> 00:01:40,725.001 Make sure you preheat the oven and then make sure you know you've got your butter set out. 22 00:01:41,55.001 --> 00:01:47,175.001 And so what this does is it prevents me from being an idiot and messing up a recipe or not. 23 00:01:47,685.001 --> 00:01:51,105.001 Catching some subtle point that was maybe made in the instruction. 24 00:01:51,105.001 --> 00:01:53,355.001 So it has been a huge lifesaver for me. 25 00:01:53,485.001 --> 00:01:58,435.001 And my partner's very happy with the results because he gets to have baked goods that actually taste good. 26 00:01:59,465.001 --> 00:02:02,255.001 And those baked goods are pretty phenomenal. 27 00:02:02,305.001 --> 00:02:07,665.001 I didn't know that you were using GPT, but now I know why that baking is improved so much. 28 00:02:07,665.001 --> 00:02:08,345.001 So that's exciting. 29 00:02:10,220.001 --> 00:02:28,615.001 I owe GPTA lot and baking's one of them speaking of GPTs, my tip this week is maybe controversial, but I think we'll help our listeners quite a bit, let's say I really like your GPT and I wanna build something similar, but maybe just a little different, for my own personal use. 30 00:02:28,765.001 --> 00:02:32,995.001 Obviously wanna make sure to give any creator credit if you're doing external stuff. 31 00:02:33,45.001 --> 00:02:36,985.001 I may want to something more about grilling 'cause I'm not as good at the grill. 32 00:02:37,255.001 --> 00:02:43,975.001 So I can ask your GPT to give me the instructions on creating that GPT and it will. 33 00:02:44,125.001 --> 00:02:47,425.001 you can also get links and things like that is feeding its knowledge base. 34 00:02:47,425.001 --> 00:02:54,755.001 Another example of going a little meta with GPT and asking it to recreate something for you that you can then recreate for yourself. 35 00:02:55,395.001 --> 00:02:57,105.001 I really like that. 36 00:02:57,165.001 --> 00:03:01,805.001 Do you have any tips on how you went about setting that up? if I wanna steal that idea from you, how I would do it. 37 00:03:02,895.001 --> 00:03:05,125.001 Give me the instructions of how I'd recreate you. 38 00:03:05,175.001 --> 00:03:11,415.001 You can go deeper and ask for the knowledge base, but it depends on what you're interested in creating. 39 00:03:11,415.001 --> 00:03:16,35.001 if the GPT is exactly what I want, I'll use the original creators that's available on the GPT store. 40 00:03:16,215.001 --> 00:03:19,215.001 But a lot of times I want something a little more custom to what I'm doing. 41 00:03:19,455.001 --> 00:03:24,245.001 And so then being able to get those instructions and edit them to create my own GPT is what I do. 42 00:03:24,275.001 --> 00:03:25,525.001 I just start by asking. 43 00:03:25,805.001 --> 00:03:27,125.001 Yeah, it's a great call. 44 00:03:27,135.001 --> 00:03:29,745.001 it is community and we are all able to draw from things. 45 00:03:29,745.001 --> 00:03:32,985.001 And you're right, if I find a GBT that I really like from someone, I keep using it. 46 00:03:33,45.001 --> 00:03:34,155.001 I use quite a few of yours. 47 00:03:34,345.001 --> 00:03:40,35.001 But it is sometimes more about personalizing it like my grocery and baking guide because, I. 48 00:03:40,200.001 --> 00:03:41,100.001 gotta idiot proof it. 49 00:03:41,570.001 --> 00:03:45,50.001 And not only that, I might not have the same store that you have on the East Coast. 50 00:03:45,50.001 --> 00:03:47,360.001 So yeah, different locations. 51 00:03:47,520.001 --> 00:03:48,95.001 All right. 52 00:03:48,95.001 --> 00:03:56,550.001 Speaking about being creative with ways to use ai, who do we have today? We have one of the most creative people I know using ai. 53 00:03:56,780.001 --> 00:03:59,60.001 His name's Jonathan Car Ford. 54 00:03:59,250.001 --> 00:04:00,630.001 Some people call him Coach K. 55 00:04:00,680.001 --> 00:04:03,470.001 He is a university instructor. 56 00:04:03,590.001 --> 00:04:07,670.001 He is the head of Growth for Momentum io as well as CEO. 57 00:04:08,310.001 --> 00:04:10,260.001 Of GTM AI Academy. 58 00:04:10,260.001 --> 00:04:18,805.001 So pretty well known probably to a lot of our listeners, and he's going to come talk to us about all of those things for our next session, Great. 59 00:04:18,805.001 --> 00:04:29,435.001 Can't wait to talk to him All right, and we're back, today we've got Jonathan Car Ford. 60 00:04:29,505.001 --> 00:04:31,5.001 You've done so many different things. 61 00:04:31,35.001 --> 00:04:35,185.001 Can you introduce yourself? my name is Jonathan Carver, some people call me coach. 62 00:04:35,185.001 --> 00:04:40,375.001 Long story short, I was at a startup where there's 20 of us in a small office and 10 of us were named John. 63 00:04:40,645.001 --> 00:04:42,775.001 they got tired of all of us responding to John. 64 00:04:42,775.001 --> 00:04:44,605.001 And so the guy was like, Hey, you're the coach of the team. 65 00:04:44,655.001 --> 00:04:47,565.001 And I was a sales coach and he was like, okay, you're going to be Coach K. 66 00:04:47,595.001 --> 00:04:48,705.001 'cause no one can say your last name. 67 00:04:48,795.001 --> 00:04:49,405.001 You're the coach K. 68 00:04:49,465.001 --> 00:04:50,905.001 And then ever since then, it's stuck. 69 00:04:50,905.001 --> 00:05:09,865.001 I'm currently the head of GTM Growth at Momentum, a series a startup and revenue orchestration platform, I've been Running the GTM AI Academy for three years now, recently co-founded the AI Business Network with a friend of mine, which is more broad for leaders in business across finance and legal besides that, I advise people, I talk to people all the time about ai. 70 00:05:10,15.001 --> 00:05:15,435.001 I teach a beginners class at Bryan University at night I live, breathe, eat, sleep, AI all the time, every day. 71 00:05:15,465.001 --> 00:05:16,485.001 So love it. 72 00:05:16,485.001 --> 00:05:19,185.001 And I'm really a big fan of applying it to go to market. 73 00:05:19,535.001 --> 00:05:27,45.001 Thinking about the breadth of the work that you've done, you've spent the last few years helping go to market teams, use AI in practical ways. 74 00:05:27,215.001 --> 00:05:34,765.001 So from your perspective, what's actually changing inside go-to-market teams right now? From a tech level, but also how work's getting done. 75 00:05:36,370.001 --> 00:05:36,880.001 Oh man. 76 00:05:37,70.001 --> 00:05:38,510.001 That's a large question. 77 00:05:39,200.001 --> 00:05:42,590.001 I think right now people in general, they're feeling pressure from two different ways. 78 00:05:42,620.001 --> 00:05:49,700.001 One is you see things like from Shopify CEO saying won't hire unless we can find out for sure if AI can do it or not, which is a fascinating thing. 79 00:05:50,435.001 --> 00:05:59,55.001 Then I have a friend of mine who's in another larger organization comparable to Shopify, and her boss, said the same thing, except they also said, you need to learn how to use ai, but we're not giving you tools. 80 00:05:59,55.001 --> 00:05:59,925.001 We're not giving you time. 81 00:05:59,925.001 --> 00:06:00,915.001 We're not giving you training. 82 00:06:01,95.001 --> 00:06:02,805.001 We're not giving you a budget, but you gotta learn ai. 83 00:06:02,805.001 --> 00:06:04,155.001 And by the way, you can't use it on our stuff. 84 00:06:04,155.001 --> 00:06:17,650.001 So like, how are we supposed to do this? So there's this disparity going on right now that I think individuals are ready for AI and excited but they either don't have the ability to use it internally the time or money or whatever the case might be. 85 00:06:18,795.001 --> 00:06:21,300.001 But the up and ups are saying, Hey, let's get going with ai. 86 00:06:22,100.001 --> 00:06:25,100.001 They don't know how, they have no plan and that kinda stuff. 87 00:06:25,100.001 --> 00:06:27,50.001 So it's fascinating to see that difference in change. 88 00:06:28,550.001 --> 00:06:41,85.001 the other side of the, I would say is that there's just such a sheer overwhelm with like tools launching like crazy all over the place the models come out like Gemini or Claude or Chet, BT one of them is having an update literally every single week. 89 00:06:41,325.001 --> 00:06:43,317.501 So keeping up with it is extremely overwhelming. 90 00:06:43,455.001 --> 00:06:49,935.001 So between the pressure of work and people saying, you gotta get better faster, and AI changes, it's becoming insanely overwhelming. 91 00:06:50,155.001 --> 00:06:52,45.001 that's why I always say start with where you are. 92 00:06:52,435.001 --> 00:06:54,565.001 Don't worry about trying to become the AI expert overnight. 93 00:06:54,565.001 --> 00:06:57,655.001 You're not going to, and even if you tried, you're not going to make it 'cause it just goes too fast. 94 00:06:57,955.001 --> 00:07:06,105.001 But focus where you are to build out AI workflows or automations where you are, and you'll see big differences quickly Yeah, it's funny. 95 00:07:06,105.001 --> 00:07:09,825.001 We often talk to people about this stuff and we're like, you're okay. 96 00:07:09,855.001 --> 00:07:13,115.001 Wherever you're at right now, you're fine and we'll figure it out. 97 00:07:13,325.001 --> 00:07:20,765.001 right? One thing that's really interesting to me though is in your report, if you guys haven't checked it out, the go to market AI 2025 Yeah. 98 00:07:20,775.001 --> 00:07:21,555.001 Really interesting. 99 00:07:21,995.001 --> 00:07:27,875.001 84% of go-to-market leaders are saying that AI is a strategic priority, and I think that's coming from the top too. 100 00:07:27,905.001 --> 00:07:33,975.001 The CEOs are really pushing that it's strategic priority, but only 24% are using it daily. 101 00:07:33,975.001 --> 00:07:41,715.001 So if you took away the folks that are not allowed to use it, where do you think the disconnect is between the folks that can. 102 00:07:43,305.001 --> 00:07:48,835.001 I think people are overconfident in what they think they can do with it, we don't have a lot of examples of people using it really well. 103 00:07:49,265.001 --> 00:07:56,625.001 there's a big separation you'll see on LinkedIn, people posting crazy automation flows if you're a beginner and just used to prompting Chet GBT, it's a different world. 104 00:07:56,675.001 --> 00:07:59,165.001 I have people come to me and say, I use every AI every day. 105 00:07:59,165.001 --> 00:07:59,555.001 that's good. 106 00:07:59,555.001 --> 00:08:01,655.001 You also drive every day, but you're not a NASCAR driver. 107 00:08:01,655.001 --> 00:08:02,555.001 there's nothing wrong with that. 108 00:08:02,555.001 --> 00:08:03,905.001 It just means you haven't gone through the training. 109 00:08:03,955.001 --> 00:08:06,955.001 People think because they use it every day that's enough and they're good at it. 110 00:08:07,135.001 --> 00:08:24,280.001 And I'm like, there's a whole world that you gotta really dedicate yourself to, but most people can't 'cause you're busy doing your sales job or your customer success job that's why I'm always telling enablement people or leaders that it's incumbent upon them to make sure the enablement is such that someone can actually apply it and get good benefit out of it, it's not realistic to expect everyone to become. 111 00:08:24,550.001 --> 00:08:29,430.001 A prompt engineer, So either tech's gotta make that happen or the leader's gotta give the space for it to happen. 112 00:08:29,650.001 --> 00:08:35,80.001 momentum, that's one of the things we talk about A lot is that we don't want people to have to worry about the adoption cycle. 113 00:08:35,110.001 --> 00:08:40,840.001 'cause that's the biggest pain in the neck for tech is like adopting yet another tab or tech or something. 114 00:08:41,590.001 --> 00:09:01,10.001 AI in general should be the ones that's the least needed to be adopted because it should work where you are versus having to go to it, so there's some key differences in shifts that are changing, you mentioned when you talk to teams, you're like meeting them where they are, but for teams that wanna start but are feeling overwhelmed, where would you typically recommend they focus first. 115 00:09:01,735.001 --> 00:09:07,230.001 So generally speaking, I would give them access to my GPT and say, go have a conversation with this. 116 00:09:07,230.001 --> 00:09:14,205.001 I made A GPT that answers this question and says, okay, what's your job? What's your task? it's trained on being able to identify. 117 00:09:14,580.001 --> 00:09:24,750.001 What's most important and impactful, and then suggesting based on their level of comfort with AI or automations, to say, okay, if you're brand new to Ai, here's the things you should do right now. 118 00:09:24,750.001 --> 00:09:25,800.001 And it takes it by their. 119 00:09:26,505.001 --> 00:09:32,805.001 Job tasks and says, you can do this with ai, and in the GT's opinion, it'll say, this is the number one thing you should do now. 120 00:09:33,255.001 --> 00:09:36,645.001 And you focus on that, and then you start going down the path and start knocking it off. 121 00:09:37,905.001 --> 00:09:47,695.001 I always tell people and this probably comes from my life coaching days, but you try to lose 50 pounds, you don't focus on the 50 pounds, you focus on the first five, then you go to the Next Yeah. 122 00:09:47,745.001 --> 00:09:48,435.001 It's the same thing. 123 00:09:48,435.001 --> 00:09:51,15.001 You can't think I'm going to automate everything in my business. 124 00:09:51,15.001 --> 00:09:52,125.001 Like it's insanely. 125 00:09:52,620.001 --> 00:09:57,570.001 Overwhelming you think that's thinking, what is the thing that's going to me the most right now? And then focus on that. 126 00:09:57,570.001 --> 00:10:00,420.001 Instead of trying to eat the elephant in one, swing it doesn't work very well. 127 00:10:00,470.001 --> 00:10:04,600.001 a lot of people are getting this pressure of Shopify CEOs saying, apply everything to ai. 128 00:10:04,600.001 --> 00:10:07,660.001 And you're like, where do I start? of just saying, I'm going to start here. 129 00:10:08,140.001 --> 00:10:09,730.001 Is the most important, most impactful thing. 130 00:10:09,970.001 --> 00:10:12,100.001 I'm going to get this good and then I'll move on to the next thing. 131 00:10:12,100.001 --> 00:10:13,750.001 That's the thing that most people aren't doing. 132 00:10:13,750.001 --> 00:10:16,90.001 So you doing just that, you'll be farther ahead. 133 00:10:16,390.001 --> 00:10:18,130.001 the other thing that folks really struggle with is. 134 00:10:18,910.001 --> 00:10:24,850.001 Because there are so many tools, it's almost if I just use all these tools, I'm proficient in a way. 135 00:10:25,295.001 --> 00:10:27,65.001 As we all know, it's not about tools. 136 00:10:27,125.001 --> 00:10:32,115.001 You've mentioned in the past you have a mental model that's trust, education, and intent. 137 00:10:32,595.001 --> 00:10:35,0.001 Would you walk us through that? So trust, education, intent. 138 00:10:35,0.001 --> 00:10:37,550.001 When you say trust, I'm assuming you mean trust on all levels. 139 00:10:37,970.001 --> 00:10:39,860.001 Is that correct? Trust intent. 140 00:10:40,230.001 --> 00:10:43,140.001 in general, I'll just talk about trust 'cause it's a fascinating topic. 141 00:10:43,950.001 --> 00:10:47,670.001 We're talking to a lot of companies that are massive in size and even smaller ones. 142 00:10:48,510.001 --> 00:10:55,630.001 And whether it's in Prompt engineering with beginners or even massive companies trying to apply an AI across the tech, single most. 143 00:10:56,605.001 --> 00:10:58,45.001 Common thread is trust. 144 00:10:58,435.001 --> 00:11:00,325.001 And trust can take on many layers. 145 00:11:00,385.001 --> 00:11:04,135.001 It could be SOC two compliance and data security and governance. 146 00:11:04,435.001 --> 00:11:06,265.001 It could be the output of the ai. 147 00:11:06,505.001 --> 00:11:09,295.001 It could be trusting that the human understands enough to do things. 148 00:11:09,295.001 --> 00:11:11,305.001 It's like there's trust on multifactors. 149 00:11:11,945.001 --> 00:11:13,565.001 when I tell people about trust. 150 00:11:14,300.001 --> 00:11:24,360.001 like when you're looking at tech, can you trust what you're putting into it? Number one, is it safe? Is it secure? Is there Zero data retention policy with OpenAI as an example. 151 00:11:24,790.001 --> 00:11:33,70.001 It basically means that there's absolutely no training whatsoever and that is a unique agreement that not everyone with an API has you have to especially apply for it and get it. 152 00:11:33,410.001 --> 00:11:35,120.001 Momentum does a few other people do. 153 00:11:35,120.001 --> 00:11:47,480.001 It's not common, it's a question you need to ask vendors when you go into a technology saying something like, do you have a zero retention data policy with your AI vendors? Because if they don't, you need to know what is going on with the data, SOC two is another one. 154 00:11:47,480.001 --> 00:11:47,960.001 Governance. 155 00:11:47,960.001 --> 00:11:56,560.001 How do I know what's going on? What happens to the data going in? And the question is what's coming out? as a prompt engineer, I spend a lot of time that. 156 00:11:57,510.001 --> 00:12:02,850.001 Making sure that the prompts can produce the results I'm looking for consistently without having issues or problems. 157 00:12:03,720.001 --> 00:12:08,400.001 That's not an easy thing to do 'cause it means you have to have usually monster prompts that guide an AI of how to respond. 158 00:12:09,270.001 --> 00:12:10,680.001 And again, most people don't know that. 159 00:12:10,680.001 --> 00:12:12,660.001 They don't know the nuance rules around prompting. 160 00:12:13,140.001 --> 00:12:22,840.001 So the results you get back are not always consistent or the same, and therefore they don't trust the Output because they don't know how to prompt, lastly everyone has a different level of trust with the humans. 161 00:12:23,140.001 --> 00:12:30,80.001 So there's people on your team who you may or may not trust a lot Then you add AI onto it and you're like, I don't know if this person can really understand how to. 162 00:12:30,665.001 --> 00:12:34,855.001 Push the AI to what you need to get, so it's like all these things need to be mitigated. 163 00:12:34,855.001 --> 00:12:40,825.001 It takes time and hopefully the goal would be that you can trust the governance, security side of the AI tech. 164 00:12:41,245.001 --> 00:12:42,625.001 You can trust the output of it. 165 00:12:42,745.001 --> 00:12:45,805.001 And hopefully it's something where the human does not have to do a whole lot with it. 166 00:12:45,805.001 --> 00:12:51,285.001 It's more of like human in the loop versus human in the steering wheel, Education makes a lot of sense. 167 00:12:51,335.001 --> 00:12:53,45.001 we'd love to get the intent piece. 168 00:12:53,345.001 --> 00:13:01,315.001 Actually going to say one thing about education, which is fascinating, is that, in the report we had that a signal for AI tech purchase is education. 169 00:13:01,735.001 --> 00:13:07,285.001 So you can know if someone's about to buy an AI tech 'cause they're looking into education, which I thought that nugget's kind of fascinating. 170 00:13:08,62.501 --> 00:13:13,492.501 This kind of goes into a lot of different nuances, but AI is getting really good at understanding intent of different things. 171 00:13:13,492.501 --> 00:13:16,342.501 You could talk about it from a marketing point of view. 172 00:13:16,342.501 --> 00:13:23,302.501 So if someone puts in perplexity or Chacha Bet or Gemini or any tech that has access to the internet, someone could put in a mediocre sentence. 173 00:13:23,302.501 --> 00:13:30,22.501 And AI is trying to understand the intent of what it's trying, what the human's trying to communicate, then goes out to the marketplace, into the internet. 174 00:13:30,297.501 --> 00:13:35,367.501 And tries to find something that has the same intent of writing to capture the intent of the person going. 175 00:13:35,367.501 --> 00:13:44,310.001 So now in marketing, just talk SEO keywords, I talk, what intention am I trying to match with this article, which is different than keywords. 176 00:13:44,507.501 --> 00:13:46,277.501 I have to match intent versus match keyword. 177 00:13:47,147.501 --> 00:13:55,767.501 just that alone understanding What is my intent with this ai? The more clear you can be with your intent and be overly communicative, the better results you get back. 178 00:13:55,767.501 --> 00:13:57,863.501 Jonathan, there's a quote you said that we loved. 179 00:13:58,43.501 --> 00:14:03,518.501 the best teams don't use the most ai, they use it the most intentionally. 180 00:14:03,838.501 --> 00:14:06,88.501 And I'm curious how you've seen that in practice. 181 00:14:07,883.501 --> 00:14:17,498.501 I feel like it's really easy to feel pressure 'cause of all the reasons we've already said, I have a lot of people who say, what AI tech should I go get? I think that's the worst question to start with. 182 00:14:17,498.501 --> 00:14:40,58.501 It should be what are we trying to accomplish? What's the prioritized outcome we're going for and what is our gap or the pains we're experiencing while trying to get there? teams that are able to identify what is the prioritized problem that is aligned to business outcome, and based off of that are very intentional on making sure that they leverage tech in a way that hits their goals are the best ones that hit. 183 00:14:40,703.501 --> 00:14:41,513.501 Goals usually. 184 00:14:41,843.501 --> 00:14:45,823.501 The other way around is that people feel this pressure around, everyone's using ai, I should go get ai. 185 00:14:46,603.501 --> 00:14:52,863.501 And even if the tech is absolutely awesome, they don't get the results they want 'cause they don't know what they're trying to impact in the first place. 186 00:14:53,103.501 --> 00:14:55,23.501 Or another example is AI SDRs. 187 00:14:55,23.501 --> 00:15:00,333.501 It's something that's very hot topic Right now and I've seen a lot of teams roll out in ai. 188 00:15:00,333.501 --> 00:15:00,993.501 SDR. 189 00:15:01,638.501 --> 00:15:02,268.501 Failed. 190 00:15:02,418.501 --> 00:15:07,368.501 Not because the tech didn't work, but because they didn't have the information that the tech needed to operate correctly. 191 00:15:07,558.501 --> 00:15:21,848.501 what's my go-to market motion, what's my sales process? What's my ICP? What's their pains where I usually find them? all this stuff that AI needs to be trained, they don't have identified and they think going to break some fundamental system not, it's just going to reveal it. 192 00:15:23,153.501 --> 00:15:25,463.501 They blame the AI and say, this is crappy. 193 00:15:25,463.501 --> 00:15:26,273.501 We gotta get something better. 194 00:15:26,273.501 --> 00:15:28,523.501 It's not the ai it's the same thing as prompting. 195 00:15:28,523.501 --> 00:15:30,923.501 people say the prompt stuff I'm getting back is horrible. 196 00:15:30,923.501 --> 00:15:38,483.501 It's not the ai, it's you, like, AI is the best self-reflective tool out there because if you're not getting what you want, most of the time it's your fault. 197 00:15:38,543.501 --> 00:15:40,773.501 It's my fault as a person, it's not the ai. 198 00:15:41,523.501 --> 00:15:51,238.501 So going back to intentional, it's understanding the limitations of ai, but also being very, prescriptive on what it can or cannot do, and then letting it do its thing and let go a little bit. 199 00:15:53,248.501 --> 00:15:54,658.501 Yeah, I think that's right. 200 00:15:55,268.501 --> 00:15:59,518.501 The other thing kinda going back to the tooling is there could be a lot of AI bloat Yeah. 201 00:15:59,828.501 --> 00:16:06,258.501 it leads to some, you talk about the ai SDR, if you don't have the mechanisms on the backend it can expose some gaps. 202 00:16:06,548.501 --> 00:16:13,458.501 And your go to market strategy, but I'm curious, a lot of folks just add these AI tools to try to solve different problems. 203 00:16:13,458.501 --> 00:16:20,598.501 how do the savviest leaders prevent that and focus on the outcomes? It is a good question because it's. 204 00:16:21,78.501 --> 00:16:29,133.501 When you say leaders, you mean leaders like trying to enable frontline people with Hitachi, bt, or do you mean like an AI tech that goes across the team? I think it's a little of both. 205 00:16:29,143.501 --> 00:16:36,543.501 there's leaders who are finding point solutions, and then there are those, workflow type tools that can accomplish the latter. 206 00:16:36,543.501 --> 00:16:37,773.501 I'm curious how you think about it. 207 00:16:38,83.501 --> 00:16:38,893.501 There's two approaches. 208 00:16:38,893.501 --> 00:16:56,323.501 one is the bottom up, and I think it's very powerful to give people access to a team's version of chat, BT or Gemini I think you should be enabling your team with something, even if they're mediocre, being able to do something faster is better, I would also enable 'em with education around it If you can get someone even 10% better with IDR now, it makes a big impact on their workflows. 209 00:16:56,323.501 --> 00:16:59,273.501 That's if you don't automate anything, if all They do is just prompt. 210 00:16:59,943.501 --> 00:17:02,943.501 having a little bit of nuance to help people would make a big difference. 211 00:17:02,943.501 --> 00:17:03,513.501 That's number one. 212 00:17:03,873.501 --> 00:17:13,453.501 But the real impact comes from the tech that can make a bigger impact on the bottom line with business, profit, costs, revenue, customer happiness that kinda stuff. 213 00:17:13,993.501 --> 00:17:22,673.501 Um, Leaders who understand that and drive that the company who said, learn ai, we have no tooling, no training, no process, no time, no nothing. 214 00:17:22,673.501 --> 00:17:23,513.501 That's bad leadership. 215 00:17:24,353.501 --> 00:17:27,653.501 People who know where this thing's coming, like for me, I'll give you an example. 216 00:17:27,683.501 --> 00:17:34,43.501 I could take a team of 10 SDRs and reduce them down to two and have them do the same amount of work that the 10 used to do. 217 00:17:34,113.501 --> 00:17:36,803.501 I would rather keep all 10 and times 10 them. 218 00:17:36,803.501 --> 00:17:40,253.501 So instead of having two, doing their work of 10, I have 10 doing their work of a hundred. 219 00:17:41,33.501 --> 00:17:50,73.501 So it's part of, it's a mindset shift of understanding what is actually important and thinking, yes, there is expense here, but what Can I do to really amplify the human talent I have. 220 00:17:50,893.501 --> 00:17:53,323.501 Versus trying to just reduce headcount and costs. 221 00:17:53,373.501 --> 00:18:00,243.501 I think We should be looking at dollars, in the last end, but there's just all this pressure and I think people need to have a longer term view of what's actually going to help the business, which is the people. 222 00:18:00,453.501 --> 00:18:13,733.501 If you push your people to be the best they can be you'll have than enough outcomes to mitigate any cost I think you're seeing that with some companies who had an AI first strategy and announced it early on, and now you see that they're hiring back. 223 00:18:14,53.501 --> 00:18:14,983.501 Some people did that. 224 00:18:15,913.501 --> 00:18:16,93.501 Yeah. 225 00:18:16,153.501 --> 00:18:16,843.501 customer support. 226 00:18:16,843.501 --> 00:18:20,83.501 They got rid of a bunch of customer support people, and a month and a half ago, started hiring people back. 227 00:18:20,233.501 --> 00:18:24,433.501 It's a classic example, what is a common, oh, no moment. 228 00:18:24,623.501 --> 00:18:26,513.501 When go to market teams start experimenting with ai. 229 00:18:27,973.501 --> 00:18:28,783.501 Oh my gosh. 230 00:18:28,863.501 --> 00:18:29,703.501 I'll give an example. 231 00:18:29,703.501 --> 00:18:38,343.501 When I go into a team and I'll have a series B series C series D company that has not yet really found out what their sales process should be or exit criteria. 232 00:18:38,793.501 --> 00:18:42,408.501 And then they wanna automate stuff and it creates just a mess It creates a lot of problems. 233 00:18:42,438.501 --> 00:18:44,418.501 for example, if you don't have your fundamentals in place. 234 00:18:45,68.501 --> 00:18:48,758.501 is just going to speed the chaos you already have and it makes it bad. 235 00:18:48,758.501 --> 00:18:54,188.501 no one's going, oh shit, we have all this data that we did that's wrong because of our own stuff. 236 00:18:54,238.501 --> 00:18:54,778.501 That's a big one. 237 00:18:55,228.501 --> 00:18:56,578.501 AI can thrive. 238 00:18:56,963.501 --> 00:18:59,513.501 When it's able to communicate across the board. 239 00:18:59,513.501 --> 00:19:01,403.501 So now you have MCP and agent type stuff. 240 00:19:01,403.501 --> 00:19:02,543.501 There's all these things coming out. 241 00:19:02,543.501 --> 00:19:09,33.501 But our Infrastructure of tech was not ever meant to let every technology talk to each other like it is to an extent, but it's not. 242 00:19:09,903.501 --> 00:19:19,703.501 And so now a lot of the oh no moments is coming from, oh crap, we have all this data, all these different places, but there's no easy way to connect it and let the AI thrive, that's another moment that pretty much everyone I think is going through right now. 243 00:19:19,703.501 --> 00:19:20,813.501 I'm pretty sure everyone has that. 244 00:19:21,953.501 --> 00:19:33,713.501 when people put a little too much trust into humans with AI prompting, you need to be very careful with this because people think they know what they're doing and then they prompt horrible and they get outputs and they're like, what in the world do you just send to the CEO? I get messages myself where I'm like. 245 00:19:34,28.501 --> 00:19:34,178.501 Okay. 246 00:19:34,178.501 --> 00:19:36,398.501 I know this is ai, like I live and breathe ai. 247 00:19:36,458.501 --> 00:19:39,128.501 Like it's fine if you use ai, but be a little bit creative, come on. 248 00:19:39,878.501 --> 00:19:41,788.501 only imagine how many teams are going through that. 249 00:19:41,838.501 --> 00:19:42,198.501 Yeah. 250 00:19:43,333.501 --> 00:19:50,813.501 I think along those lines, if you think about folks that are just starting to dip their toes in the water and some of the early adopters that are out there, maybe hesitant teams. 251 00:19:51,203.501 --> 00:20:00,848.501 What's one story where a team has really shifted their mindset Yeah, I think that mindset comes first, the funny thing is that too many times, the tools come in. 252 00:20:01,613.501 --> 00:20:02,543.501 The mindset doesn't. 253 00:20:02,793.501 --> 00:20:04,773.501 I call 'em the four or five C's. 254 00:20:04,773.501 --> 00:20:06,363.501 a couple of mindset things are super critical. 255 00:20:07,142.251 --> 00:20:08,283.501 One is creative. 256 00:20:08,703.501 --> 00:20:10,923.501 You gotta let your team be creative in how they apply things. 257 00:20:10,923.501 --> 00:20:12,963.501 you can find some really cool, fun stuff. 258 00:20:12,963.501 --> 00:20:16,383.501 a lot of the things I do in AI has come from me just asking the question. 259 00:20:16,413.501 --> 00:20:17,373.501 I wonder if. 260 00:20:17,748.501 --> 00:20:21,378.501 I wonder if I can do this, but it means I have to be creative and have the space to fail. 261 00:20:21,438.501 --> 00:20:22,998.501 'cause sometimes it doesn't work. 262 00:20:23,678.501 --> 00:20:26,358.501 And that's okay though 'cause I'm able to be critical enough. 263 00:20:26,358.501 --> 00:20:28,126.001 So two things go hand in hand creative and critical. 264 00:20:28,668.501 --> 00:20:30,768.501 So I'm not critical of myself or others. 265 00:20:30,768.501 --> 00:20:31,728.501 I'm critical of the ai. 266 00:20:32,28.501 --> 00:20:33,948.501 I wanna push it to be the best it can be. 267 00:20:33,948.501 --> 00:20:36,348.501 And then collaborative, like being able to mix your minds. 268 00:20:36,398.501 --> 00:20:46,358.501 this all takes mindset sharing and giving the space to let people play together with AI and see what results they get And to experiment and all this stuff, so CR creative critical collaborative. 269 00:20:46,388.501 --> 00:20:47,348.501 There's probably one more c. 270 00:20:47,818.501 --> 00:20:48,718.501 I'll come back to me in a second. 271 00:20:49,198.501 --> 00:20:50,98.501 But then, oh, coachable. 272 00:20:50,188.501 --> 00:20:57,408.501 And that's just being willing to learn because I'm an AI I know experts and even the experts are saying it's so hard to keep up and you have to be moldable. 273 00:20:58,318.501 --> 00:21:03,418.501 you're not willing to be coachable and to learn, like learn, this week's going to expired by next week anyway. 274 00:21:03,418.501 --> 00:21:12,268.501 So you gotta be in this constant shift of learning and changing, humans as a general whole aren't used to that, i've been in a mode where I'm changing things all the time, even prompting, I'm like, this used to work. 275 00:21:12,298.501 --> 00:21:23,978.501 But now it doesn't 'cause I'm in oh three or oh four, or I'm in a different technology So if you have those four things from a mindset perspective, you'll be great. 276 00:21:23,978.501 --> 00:21:25,928.501 But if you don't, going to struggle a lot. 277 00:21:26,168.501 --> 00:21:30,488.501 And I'll say that double for leaders, they've gotta be willing to let go of some of that control. 278 00:21:31,768.501 --> 00:21:36,748.501 otherwise if they don't that creative, critical, collaborative, and then coaching come in, including me as a leader. 279 00:21:37,118.501 --> 00:21:43,148.501 I saw back in October, Deloitte released a report around board members of massive companies all the way down to, series B stuff. 280 00:21:43,808.501 --> 00:21:50,168.501 And the biggest thing was, They weren't even talking about AI and not only were they not talking about ai, none of them had even used ai. 281 00:21:50,588.501 --> 00:21:55,268.501 So these people are, who are making the decisions of having AI inside these massive companies aren't even touching it. 282 00:21:55,268.501 --> 00:21:59,498.501 And my opinion is if you've never touched the BT, don't tell me what I should be doing with ai. 283 00:21:59,628.501 --> 00:22:00,918.501 You're not the person to be talking to. 284 00:22:01,748.501 --> 00:22:05,198.501 So I think all those mindset skills go across the board for everybody. 285 00:22:05,228.501 --> 00:22:10,28.501 'cause otherwise the dinosaurs are going to be extinct very quickly. 286 00:22:11,583.501 --> 00:22:12,453.501 Yeah, I think that's right. 287 00:22:12,453.501 --> 00:22:16,48.501 I always think about curiosity as being Yeah. 288 00:22:16,153.501 --> 00:22:18,203.501 thing I look for and hire for even. 289 00:22:18,203.501 --> 00:22:23,393.501 It's like you wanna have that thirst and I think the AI piece, so I like the four C's you have. 290 00:22:23,393.501 --> 00:22:24,993.501 I think creative kind I'll take yours. 291 00:22:24,993.501 --> 00:22:26,493.501 I'll tag it on number five, curiosity. 292 00:22:26,493.501 --> 00:22:26,823.501 I love it. 293 00:22:27,93.501 --> 00:22:28,143.501 Yeah, it's funny. 294 00:22:28,243.501 --> 00:22:34,393.501 I've been talking to some leaders who their board is saying you need to worry about the risks of ai. 295 00:22:34,393.501 --> 00:22:39,613.501 And I talked to chat GPT and it told me this, and it's not, that's not right. 296 00:22:39,833.501 --> 00:22:41,483.501 I was like, congratulations. 297 00:22:41,483.501 --> 00:22:42,803.501 Here's your prize, Mr. 298 00:22:42,803.501 --> 00:22:43,643.501 Board member. 299 00:22:43,803.501 --> 00:22:44,463.501 But you're right. 300 00:22:44,468.501 --> 00:22:48,423.501 People who aren't using it and being curious their perspective is going to. 301 00:22:48,828.501 --> 00:22:51,108.501 Date them and leave them behind at some point. 302 00:22:51,348.501 --> 00:22:52,248.501 I very much agree. 303 00:22:53,118.501 --> 00:22:56,888.501 I wanna talk about another tension the relationship between sales and marketing. 304 00:22:57,218.501 --> 00:23:08,773.501 So as you think about helping teams move forward, implementing ai, from a go-to market perspective how do you connect those two teams from a. 305 00:23:09,333.501 --> 00:23:17,483.501 Working perspective when sales, want speed and they want pipeline and marketing has other priorities and AI's kind of caught in the middle. 306 00:23:17,783.501 --> 00:23:21,683.501 my honest opinion is I'm a marketer and my number one priority is pipeline revenue. 307 00:23:21,803.501 --> 00:23:25,373.501 So I think if some marketer is saying it's not that, then they're not the right marketer. 308 00:23:25,373.501 --> 00:23:26,93.501 It's just my opinion. 309 00:23:26,783.501 --> 00:23:29,333.501 Now with that being said, I think there's two different states to talk about. 310 00:23:29,333.501 --> 00:23:31,343.501 There's the current state than the future state. 311 00:23:32,103.501 --> 00:23:35,793.501 If everyone's not aligned to the main business outcomes, then they shouldn't be in go-to-market. 312 00:23:35,793.501 --> 00:23:38,913.501 Leadership personally, like when I was enablement, I wasn't even marketing. 313 00:23:38,913.501 --> 00:23:41,133.501 My number that I got bonused on was revenue and pipeline. 314 00:23:42,248.501 --> 00:23:42,538.501 Yeah. 315 00:23:42,543.501 --> 00:23:54,923.501 I think everyone across the board, I don't care what your position is, if you're working with the revenue team, you should be tagged to the revenue and pipeline number with that being said, does market have other priorities like, SEO Yes, but it's all for the end goal of, pipeline. 316 00:23:55,383.501 --> 00:23:58,443.501 I also think that I'm a little bit different 'cause I'm not a historical marketer. 317 00:23:58,443.501 --> 00:24:02,613.501 I'm like a rev ops slash enablement slash marketer at one place with momentum. 318 00:24:03,3.501 --> 00:24:04,473.501 So I dive into the numbers all the time. 319 00:24:04,473.501 --> 00:24:12,213.501 I'm looking at how is the lead source converting through each stage? How is the actual customer closing and how are they behaving after the close? So my marketing's more about. 320 00:24:12,693.501 --> 00:24:23,149.751 What is the lifetime value and lifetime journey of the customer versus just MQL? I think that's one of the problems with marketing we gotta get over it's about the whole entire cycle and lifetime of a customer. 321 00:24:23,149.751 --> 00:24:25,549.751 It's not just getting you ops in the door. 322 00:24:25,549.751 --> 00:24:32,919.751 It's like, how are they converting? Are they selling? Because if I bring you a ton of M qls and none of them convert, what the crap am I doing? On the sales side they also need to make sure that. 323 00:24:33,324.751 --> 00:24:43,24.751 It's a delicate balance because I've seen a lot of people in a lot of different companies I've only been on one team where I've had maybe two people be really good discovery, but most of 'em are horrible. 324 00:24:43,204.751 --> 00:24:45,604.751 So I could bring the warmest best lead into it. 325 00:24:45,634.751 --> 00:24:52,554.751 most teams, unless they're ready to buy, do a mediocre job of selling and they can get it through, but most of 'em are just horrible at it. 326 00:24:52,604.751 --> 00:24:55,994.751 My job is to bring people who are warm and aware of the company. 327 00:24:55,994.751 --> 00:24:57,794.751 Their job is to capture and move forward. 328 00:24:57,794.751 --> 00:24:59,474.751 Like not always going to be a perfect set. 329 00:24:59,474.751 --> 00:25:01,214.751 Sometimes it can be super warm, sometimes it's not. 330 00:25:01,214.751 --> 00:25:08,54.751 So salespeople absolutely have to be ready to obviously take the easy ones, but then being willing to work and show value where it can be. 331 00:25:08,594.751 --> 00:25:10,674.751 The nice AI helps both sides very easily. 332 00:25:10,724.751 --> 00:25:10,964.751 Now. 333 00:25:10,964.751 --> 00:25:12,734.751 With that said, I'm going to shift to future sakes. 334 00:25:12,944.751 --> 00:25:14,294.751 this is where it's going to get interesting. 335 00:25:15,254.751 --> 00:25:21,314.751 Sam Altman and a bunch of other people talked about how sometime there's going to be some sort of one person billion dollar valuation company. 336 00:25:22,214.751 --> 00:25:22,874.751 We're not there yet. 337 00:25:22,964.751 --> 00:25:25,364.751 I have a friend of mine, he owns Swan Ai. 338 00:25:25,574.751 --> 00:25:26,354.751 His name's Amos. 339 00:25:26,654.751 --> 00:25:31,244.751 He has three founders and their goal is to get the $30 million with three people and only AI agents. 340 00:25:31,664.751 --> 00:25:35,204.751 In that world, You have a tech person, sales and marketing, and then customer. 341 00:25:35,414.751 --> 00:25:35,864.751 That's it. 342 00:25:36,614.751 --> 00:25:39,404.751 But I, I don't know if every technology, every team's going to get there. 343 00:25:39,404.751 --> 00:25:43,544.751 'cause that's, going from a team of 10,000 to three is not possible. 344 00:25:43,604.751 --> 00:25:48,404.751 But, I think in general you will start to see this shrinkage of. 345 00:25:48,689.751 --> 00:25:53,639.751 Particular roles, not necessarily meaning that person can't stay in the company, but it'll shift what they do. 346 00:25:53,639.751 --> 00:26:03,389.751 it could be that an SDR goes from being an SDR to an AI agent manager, something or the sales and marketing team goes from 10 on the marketing team and 50 on the sales team to. 347 00:26:04,229.751 --> 00:26:07,109.751 Five on marketing and then 20 in the sales team. 348 00:26:07,109.751 --> 00:26:10,889.751 So it doesn't mean they're gone from the team, it just means the role itself is not as much needed. 349 00:26:10,939.751 --> 00:26:18,199.751 I think it's just going to shift where that goes and when that shifts and if things get closer and smaller, I think that leadership will then shrink as well. 350 00:26:18,529.751 --> 00:26:21,199.751 'cause then you don't need as much leadership to manage all the different people. 351 00:26:21,529.751 --> 00:26:27,139.751 So then marketing and sales have the conflict as much 'cause it'll be one person instead of two with the same number, which is revenue and pipeline. 352 00:26:27,589.751 --> 00:26:27,919.751 That's it. 353 00:26:28,269.751 --> 00:26:31,139.751 You hear about Microsoft eliminating manager positions. 354 00:26:31,169.751 --> 00:26:33,179.751 They're looking for something different from managers. 355 00:26:33,179.751 --> 00:26:39,979.751 They're looking for them to be player coaches who understand AI and the limitations, but also what's possible creativity. 356 00:26:40,199.751 --> 00:26:46,489.751 They're not just looking for, people to make sure that employees are doing their job and, giving them a performance review, once a year. 357 00:26:46,534.751 --> 00:26:46,824.751 Yeah. 358 00:26:48,154.751 --> 00:27:01,854.751 Speaking of that, one of the things I picked up when you and I have talked is, some leaders say that AI is going to replace the human element, but when I talk to you, I actually feel the opposite, that it's going to create more opportunity for people to show up and do work differently. 359 00:27:02,164.751 --> 00:27:17,719.751 what does that look like in a high functioning go-to-market organization? this is my opinion in general, which I don't work with companies unless they share something similar, I believe humans are the source of relationship and excellence, not for data entry, not for data sourcing, not for manual, data typing work. 360 00:27:18,49.751 --> 00:27:20,749.751 They're here for relationships, for connection, and for their brain power. 361 00:27:21,629.751 --> 00:27:24,929.751 if any company, whether buying or selling AI tech does not align with that. 362 00:27:24,929.751 --> 00:27:32,159.751 They're not my kind of people I do think we're in a world where we haven't experienced what AI could or could not be doing with us as buyers and as sellers. 363 00:27:32,249.751 --> 00:27:33,622.251 So an example would be a house. 364 00:27:34,619.751 --> 00:27:36,809.751 Imagine a world where AI is like Jarvis. 365 00:27:36,839.751 --> 00:27:44,759.751 Jarvis can take us through a guide of this million dollar house in Southern California, While I'm in New York City, going through a hologram, shows me all the stuff, shows me all the data. 366 00:27:45,89.751 --> 00:27:47,549.751 Do I then need to have a real estate agent? Do me that for me? No. 367 00:27:48,329.751 --> 00:27:50,729.751 I be opposed to having that happen? No. 368 00:27:51,539.751 --> 00:27:54,989.751 I'm not that connected to release estate agents that I'd be like, I have to work with the real estate agents. 369 00:27:55,169.751 --> 00:27:55,799.751 That's me personally. 370 00:27:55,799.751 --> 00:28:00,89.751 I have good friends, real estate agents, but I'm like, I don't really care as long as I get a good house and good deal. 371 00:28:00,809.751 --> 00:28:12,914.751 think that we're going to go through this time where people are going to experiment with seeing what do I like with AI and what do I not like with AI as buyers? And so to see the swing a pendulum of saying people will push things too much. 372 00:28:12,914.751 --> 00:28:16,514.751 Kinda like Klarna and the customer support where they going to put AI everywhere. 373 00:28:16,724.751 --> 00:28:18,194.751 And they realize humans don't like that. 374 00:28:18,659.751 --> 00:28:26,913.501 Swing back, more humans saying real estate agents, maybe someone launches a holographic Jarvis level real estate agent seller thing and it goes great. 375 00:28:26,973.501 --> 00:28:28,433.501 They save money and it goes Awesome. 376 00:28:29,153.501 --> 00:28:38,553.501 I don't think we know I do know that people will start to realize, you'll start to have people who will say, I will only use the human for this, or I'll only use AI for this 'cause it's something like buying strawberries. 377 00:28:38,553.501 --> 00:28:40,833.501 I don't care if I talk to a strawberry expert and some people do. 378 00:28:41,853.501 --> 00:28:43,293.501 This is such a fascinating topic. 379 00:28:43,321.001 --> 00:28:45,93.501 I love this topic so much, so I could get on for this for a while. 380 00:28:46,53.501 --> 00:28:46,923.501 I'll try to give you an example. 381 00:28:46,923.501 --> 00:28:47,883.501 Hopefully make this more real. 382 00:28:48,123.501 --> 00:28:51,323.501 I can use hey, Jen, to mimic my avatar, my voice, my video. 383 00:28:51,563.501 --> 00:28:53,303.501 I can use 11 labs to copy my voice. 384 00:28:53,483.501 --> 00:28:55,703.501 I can use Chacha, bt, or Claude to copy my writing. 385 00:28:56,363.501 --> 00:28:57,713.501 can mimic with ai, everything. 386 00:28:58,583.501 --> 00:29:00,863.501 So that means the value of me. 387 00:29:01,253.501 --> 00:29:11,683.501 Becomes more important and more impactful if I can create an avatar that people can talk to, there's people with AI girlfriend options, getting paid lots of money to talk to their AI girlfriend, which is insane to me, but it's happening. 388 00:29:12,668.501 --> 00:29:12,958.501 Yeah. 389 00:29:13,3.501 --> 00:29:14,443.501 of their actual person? So think about that. 390 00:29:14,443.501 --> 00:29:17,398.501 Like Michael Jordan, if you had an AI avatar, you could talk to any question you wanted. 391 00:29:17,678.501 --> 00:29:18,763.501 I think that'd be cool. 392 00:29:18,883.501 --> 00:29:20,383.501 Honestly, I'd access that. 393 00:29:20,383.501 --> 00:29:24,433.501 But what's the value then of actual Michael Jordan? higher than his AI avatar. 394 00:29:25,468.501 --> 00:29:25,948.501 So Oh. 395 00:29:26,188.501 --> 00:29:31,708.501 of us as people and my own brain, my own thoughts is supremely important because all AI does is amplify it. 396 00:29:33,308.501 --> 00:29:41,378.501 I see a world where I'll have this agent AI infrastructure team that is like my Ironman suit I can go into any workplace. 397 00:29:41,633.501 --> 00:29:47,363.501 And I can plug in to the tech and the only way they can get what I can do is my AI tech that's trained on me. 398 00:29:47,393.501 --> 00:29:55,103.501 Which means that my stuff becomes really important because it's trained on my thoughts, my original thinking, So if you as a salesperson, you as a leader, you as a marketer have unique things. 399 00:29:55,103.501 --> 00:29:56,393.501 This is why you gotta be with ai. 400 00:29:56,423.501 --> 00:30:00,353.501 it's going to come a world where you have this AI agent bought Army thing. 401 00:30:00,563.501 --> 00:30:08,483.501 You can plug into existing technology and have all this cool stuff happen that only you as an expert can have 'cause of your experience, your thoughts, your ip. 402 00:30:09,53.501 --> 00:30:11,626.001 So I think things are going to get exciting. 403 00:30:11,926.001 --> 00:30:14,206.001 Human made anything like human music. 404 00:30:14,206.001 --> 00:30:14,956.001 I'm a musician. 405 00:30:15,646.001 --> 00:30:21,46.001 don't see a world where I could have an AI robot give me the same feeling live that I would have from some of my favorite concert people. 406 00:30:21,46.001 --> 00:30:26,266.001 Maybe it will, but even then it's going to be a different experience listening to Jarvis play his music versus Paul McCartney. 407 00:30:26,266.001 --> 00:30:27,356.001 It's not going to be the same. 408 00:30:27,356.001 --> 00:30:30,151.001 So the value of humans is going to go up. 409 00:30:30,201.001 --> 00:30:40,761.001 The question is, what do you have that you're passionate about, that you're knowledge about, that you are geek out all the time? And you can use AI as the amplifier instead of thinking, good writer, so AI's going to me. 410 00:30:41,661.001 --> 00:30:45,321.001 It could theoretically, but you think about all the greatest writers in the world. 411 00:30:45,321.001 --> 00:30:51,471.001 If I had access to an AI agent that could write like Oscar Wilde, would I pay for that? Yes. 412 00:30:51,831.001 --> 00:30:56,251.001 It's like, where's the value? I it's going to amplify us than replace us Yep. 413 00:30:57,431.001 --> 00:30:57,851.001 I agree. 414 00:30:57,851.001 --> 00:31:00,691.001 I think elevates what we can focus on. 415 00:31:00,821.001 --> 00:31:07,711.001 we're spending all this time thinking about, or logging interactions in Salesforce But even to your point, I love the Ironman suit coming in. 416 00:31:08,41.001 --> 00:31:18,631.001 How close do you think we're to that Iron Man plugin for most organizations? And what do you think could change to accelerate it? MCP is just starting to catch on. 417 00:31:18,631.001 --> 00:31:24,631.001 I'm seeing more and more people use it, it's going to be fascinating to see what happens before the end of the year, then agent to agent just launched. 418 00:31:24,661.001 --> 00:31:26,191.001 A month ago, two months ago. 419 00:31:26,641.001 --> 00:31:27,781.001 So most people haven't gotten that. 420 00:31:27,781.001 --> 00:31:28,621.001 But that's going to spread. 421 00:31:28,951.001 --> 00:31:37,261.001 And I would see, I would guess that most technologies, Microsoft, Amazon, most of are going to adapt don't they're going to eradicated. 422 00:31:38,101.001 --> 00:31:39,631.001 And most companies will try to do the same thing. 423 00:31:39,631.001 --> 00:31:47,791.001 I would hope that in the next year, probably two years max, for some slower moving orgs, you'll have something like that in place and. 424 00:31:48,211.001 --> 00:31:53,851.001 also probably within the next year, maybe year and a half, you have the ability to where I could have a personalized AI tech. 425 00:31:53,851.001 --> 00:32:00,621.001 if I had my GPT team, sometimes there's going to be a world where I can plug in that GPT team to a technology and amplify myself. 426 00:32:00,636.001 --> 00:32:07,386.001 instead of me working for one company, I contract with five and they all have access to my IP that I check in an hour a day with five companies. 427 00:32:08,356.001 --> 00:32:08,866.001 not there yet. 428 00:32:08,866.001 --> 00:32:22,396.001 It's going to require a lot of shifts and changes I say a year, maybe two, because so many companies are so far behind I can't tell you how many times I've done a consulting gig with someone and they said, yeah, we just rolled out Gemini our chat, and this is the first time our team has had something like this. 429 00:32:22,636.001 --> 00:32:23,836.001 This year in 25. 430 00:32:23,886.001 --> 00:32:27,566.001 where have you been? Why is this the first time you're doing this? happens all the time. 431 00:32:27,646.001 --> 00:32:28,306.001 I have to keep remembering. 432 00:32:28,306.001 --> 00:32:29,416.001 I'm a little bit farther ahead. 433 00:32:29,466.001 --> 00:32:31,56.001 I push the envelope and most people don't. 434 00:32:31,926.001 --> 00:32:33,396.001 But a lot of people are just so far behind. 435 00:32:33,396.001 --> 00:32:41,226.001 with the ease of more technology becoming real, it'll be easier to do that, which means bigger organizations can do it faster and it'll just cycle on top of itself. 436 00:32:43,146.001 --> 00:32:43,476.001 Yep. 437 00:32:43,806.001 --> 00:32:53,646.001 I'm super curious to see what happens because there's some recent data worth diving into, it talks about 70% of proof of concepts that businesses do with their own models fail. 438 00:32:53,806.001 --> 00:32:58,96.001 so if they're not looking at Claude or Gemini or chat GT, they're struggling. 439 00:32:58,276.001 --> 00:33:06,346.001 And then you're also seeing organizations who implemented copilot or chat GPT, taking it away from their employees 'cause they're not seeing enough of a business impact. 440 00:33:06,526.001 --> 00:33:13,706.001 So I'm curious to see some organizations are going to keep moving forward and I think some are going to actually stall a little bit and regroup on their strategy. 441 00:33:13,706.001 --> 00:33:16,436.001 Johnson just announced a couple weeks ago that they're pulling back. 442 00:33:18,21.001 --> 00:33:22,122.001 I know why co-pilot's at least their current version is a horrible version of ai, and no one's getting benefit out of it. 443 00:33:22,127.001 --> 00:33:23,411.001 It drives me crazy, but keep going. 444 00:33:24,941.001 --> 00:33:26,441.001 No, yeah, I think it's really valid point. 445 00:33:26,541.001 --> 00:33:29,841.001 So to wrap things up, we always love to do a rapid fire round. 446 00:33:29,841.001 --> 00:33:38,436.001 So are you ready for a few quick questions? What's one AI tool you love that doesn't get enough credit? Oh man. 447 00:33:39,76.001 --> 00:33:39,556.001 Okay. 448 00:33:39,866.001 --> 00:33:41,936.001 You gotta type that in for us 'cause we'll put it in the notes. 449 00:33:42,16.001 --> 00:33:42,556.001 A music creator. 450 00:33:42,556.001 --> 00:33:43,276.001 I'm a music nut. 451 00:33:43,336.001 --> 00:33:43,756.001 I love it. 452 00:33:43,906.001 --> 00:33:44,266.001 okay. 453 00:33:44,491.001 --> 00:33:45,706.001 that last It's awesome. 454 00:33:45,751.001 --> 00:33:46,666.001 It's so Yeah. 455 00:33:46,701.001 --> 00:33:55,56.001 What's something you used to believe about AI that you've completely changed your mind about? To pay for the AI man. 456 00:33:55,356.001 --> 00:34:00,176.001 But probably I told you before that if AI can't do it right it's the AI I switched since it's me. 457 00:34:00,566.001 --> 00:34:01,796.001 I'm the person, I'm the wrong. 458 00:34:01,851.001 --> 00:34:09,496.001 What's one prompt or trick you find yourself using over and over again with ai? I'll give you three really quick ones. 459 00:34:09,496.001 --> 00:34:12,706.001 One is structure and format, making sure it's formatted correctly with titles. 460 00:34:13,66.001 --> 00:34:17,136.001 Two is using hashtags to help the ai, know the hierarchy of importance. 461 00:34:17,406.001 --> 00:34:18,636.001 Three is words. 462 00:34:19,6.001 --> 00:34:19,936.001 words have power. 463 00:34:19,936.001 --> 00:34:23,446.001 So if I say something like rules versus law, that means something to ai. 464 00:34:23,496.001 --> 00:34:26,316.001 understanding those three things alone will get you a lot farther than most with prompting. 465 00:34:27,176.001 --> 00:34:34,376.001 what's one trend in go to market that's overrated? And what's one that's underrated? Oh man. 466 00:34:34,856.001 --> 00:34:39,146.001 I think overrated is writing emails with AI or automating anything with emails I think it's just overdone. 467 00:34:39,776.001 --> 00:34:44,396.001 Then underrated, I think is just how awesome it is to do some basic stuff. 468 00:34:44,426.001 --> 00:34:53,276.001 Like for example, if I had to go train a team on Med Pick and apply it to their company, just throwing in a chat BT and getting this cool mixture of things together, it's just so awesome. 469 00:34:53,396.001 --> 00:34:55,46.001 It still blows my mind how good it is. 470 00:34:55,46.001 --> 00:34:57,386.001 So I think it's underrated and people don't talk about it enough. 471 00:34:58,586.001 --> 00:34:59,66.001 Thank you. 472 00:34:59,76.001 --> 00:34:59,316.001 Yeah. 473 00:35:00,516.001 --> 00:35:02,526.001 That wraps us up for today. 474 00:35:02,586.001 --> 00:35:04,416.001 Jonathan, thank you so much for joining us. 475 00:35:04,446.001 --> 00:35:05,226.001 We learned a lot. 476 00:35:05,521.001 --> 00:35:05,941.001 Thank you. 477 00:35:05,986.001 --> 00:35:08,166.001 Thanks appreciate you guys Awesome. 478 00:35:13,266.001 --> 00:35:16,506.001 What'd you think of our conversation with Coach K? I enjoyed it. 479 00:35:16,506.001 --> 00:35:21,96.001 I think the thing that I learned the most about Coach K was the. 480 00:35:21,441.001 --> 00:35:26,121.001 Idea of creating this Iron Man suit to plug into these go to market motions. 481 00:35:26,421.001 --> 00:35:28,131.001 And that to me really resonated. 482 00:35:28,131.001 --> 00:35:46,671.001 'cause I think that the way that we're building these agents to talk to each other and with MCP and all this new stuff coming out that's going to help with automation, having That human at the helm that can augment these plug and play solutions is going to create a lot more value for folks that have really good ideas. 483 00:35:46,731.001 --> 00:35:48,411.001 So that's what I learned. 484 00:35:48,411.001 --> 00:35:54,926.001 What about you, Ken? Yeah, so I was really impressed by what he was talking about with relevance ai. 485 00:35:55,226.001 --> 00:36:03,536.001 I've been working to build agents and been struggling through the journey a little bit but, making some progress in key areas, awesome. 486 00:36:03,566.001 --> 00:36:06,826.001 I wanted to thank our guest coach for coming on the show. 487 00:36:07,56.001 --> 00:36:12,926.001 really interesting insights and I wanted to thank all of you listening or watching, however you're consuming our content. 488 00:36:13,76.001 --> 00:36:14,336.001 Please send us feedback. 489 00:36:14,336.001 --> 00:36:19,936.001 What do you wanna hear? What do you like, what don't you like? And any recommendations of people you want us to talk to. 490 00:36:20,686.001 --> 00:36:24,46.001 Yeah, and don't forget to subscribe and give us a review. 491 00:36:24,236.001 --> 00:36:25,886.001 That really helps us get our voice out there. 492 00:36:26,546.001 --> 00:36:30,746.001 And we really appreciate all of the feedback we've already been getting from listeners. 493 00:36:30,746.001 --> 00:36:37,696.001 It's really helped us map out the second season so far, and we're really excited to show you some other things based on what we are hearing from you guys. 494 00:36:38,176.001 --> 00:36:42,406.001 thanks for watching and let's keep crafting the future of go to Market together. 495 00:36:44,461.001 --> 00:36:44,681.001 Bye.