Pledge Allegiance to AI?: Content & SEO with Andy Crestodina

Episode Summary: 

Hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills interview Andy Crestodina, co-founder and CMO of Orbit Media. They discuss the impact of AI on search and SEO, the future of AI in marketing, and how marketers can leverage AI tools to improve their content strategy. Andy shares insights on using AI for on-page optimization, link building, and gaining deeper insights from analytics data. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining a human touch in content creation and offers tips for validating and improving AI-generated content. The conversation also explores the potential of AI in sales enablement and the challenges of keeping up with AI advancements in marketing.

00:55 Generative AI Experiences 04:44 Guest Interview: Andy Crestodina on SEO and AI 06:09 AI's Impact on Search and SEO 23:48 Leveraging AI for Marketing and Sales 24:54 Optimizing Sales with AI Insights 27:18 AI in Content Creation and Strategy 30:03 Future of AI in Marketing 38:36 Practical AI Tips and Tools Key Takeaways:

• AI is disrupting the search experience with the rise of search generative experiences (SGEs) and the potential decline in traditional search usage.
• While AI can be useful for generating content ideas and optimizing on-page elements, marketers must add their expertise and personal touch to create memorable and impactful content.
• Marketers should focus on creating a strong digital footprint and getting their brand mentioned on various online platforms. AI may prioritize mentions with elevator pitches over high-domain authority links.
• AI can identify gaps in content and persona-based messaging, helping marketers create more targeted and relevant content.

 

About our Guest:

Andy Crestodina: Co-founder and CMO of Orbit Media, a digital agency specializing in web design and development. With 24 years of experience, Andy is an expert in SEO, content marketing, and conversion optimization. He is the author of "Content Chemistry: The Illustrated Handbook for Content Marketing."

Notable Quotes:

• "AI is just another input. It's just another point of view. You can take it or leave it and move on." - Andy Crestodina
• "Be a person. Draw a line in the sand, plant a flag, have a point of view. Try that. You will sound different." - Andy Crestodina

Resources:

• Orbit Media
• Digital Marketing Tips Newsletter
• Content Chemistry: The Illustrated Handbook for Content Marketing

 

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Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we curre

Episode Transcript

(00:19):
for tuning the future marketing Let's get it started.
Hey there.
.999Welcome to the FutureCraft marketing podcast, where we're exploring how AI is changing all things from brand to demand.
.999I'm Ken Roden, one of your guides on this exciting new journey. 8 00:00:40,909.999 --> 00:00:47,229.999 And I'm Erin Mills, your other co host, and together we're here to unpack the future of AI and marketing. 9 00:00:47,479.999 --> 00:00:55,419.999 We'll share some insights, test the latest technology, interview industry pioneers, and talk to folks doing really cool things. 10 00:00:55,719.999 --> 00:01:02,559.998 So Ken, what really cool thing have you done in generative ai? Okay, Erin, I made the leap. 11 00:01:02,559.998 --> 00:01:05,399.999 I tried to do an image creation using AI. 12 00:01:05,899.999 --> 00:01:08,666.999 It was I know So here's the deal. 13 00:01:08,746.999 --> 00:01:10,456.999 This could be user error at this point. 14 00:01:10,956.999 --> 00:01:14,406.999 Try to use all of the learnings that we've picked up so far this season. 15 00:01:14,406.999 --> 00:01:21,956.998 Good prompts, clear, of insight, not being generic in what I put in the prompt, the images were horrible. 16 00:01:22,366.998 --> 00:01:23,466.998 Like it was bad. 17 00:01:23,866.998 --> 00:01:30,846.998 What was that artist? Lisa Frank, who did the notebooks? It was like her, but oh, Lisa Frank. 18 00:01:31,6.998 --> 00:01:31,606.998 Lisa Frank. 19 00:01:31,611.998 --> 00:01:33,196.998 Fans are gonna come for you now. 20 00:01:33,364.998 --> 00:01:33,564.998 cool. 21 00:01:33,564.998 --> 00:01:33,904.998 I'm okay. 22 00:01:33,904.998 --> 00:01:36,544.998 Listen, just so we're clear, everyone, I'm a big Lisa Frank fan. 23 00:01:36,804.998 --> 00:01:40,964.997 I'm just saying it was like her stuff, but like on like acid or something. 24 00:01:40,984.998 --> 00:01:41,274.997 I don't know. 25 00:01:41,284.998 --> 00:01:42,764.998 I just, I wasn't a fan of it. 26 00:01:43,504.998 --> 00:01:46,114.9985 My intent is to use it for, work purposes. 27 00:01:46,114.9985 --> 00:01:49,994.999 I'm a marketer and the imagery wasn't really what I was looking for. 28 00:01:49,994.999 --> 00:01:53,744.999 I was trying to get images of people at work doing work things. 29 00:01:54,54.999 --> 00:02:07,154.998 And it was giving me pandas doing work, and unicorns doing work, and then when I tried to be like, No, actually, I'm looking for humans doing work, it got closer, but honestly, it's just, it's not good enough right now. 30 00:02:07,384.999 --> 00:02:21,474.998 I think if you're looking for illustrations, I think if you're doing a presentation, to be a little cheeky, sure, why not? The Image generator I use is not something I'd recommend, but hey, listen, I tried something, right? And so it didn't really work out for me. 31 00:02:22,96.998 --> 00:02:22,576.9975 fair enough. 32 00:02:22,576.9975 --> 00:02:24,586.998 There's a lot of work that needs to be done. 33 00:02:24,646.998 --> 00:02:35,496.997 I will say one really fun thing that we do with our family thread is when it's a birthday, we put the person, and all of their attributes things that people are interested in or known for. 34 00:02:35,496.997 --> 00:02:45,686.997 For me it would be French bulldogs and sailing and give that to the prompt to create an image and create a really fun birthday image that we can share on the family thread. 35 00:02:45,716.998 --> 00:02:50,776.997 So totally see how that doesn't necessarily work and apply for work, but it is fun Okay. 36 00:02:50,916.997 --> 00:02:51,786.997 That sounds great. 37 00:02:51,786.997 --> 00:02:56,336.997 And if you could incorporate Lisa Frank into that, I think it would just be like the best image ever. 38 00:02:56,556.997 --> 00:03:03,256.997 Okay, what you? What are you doing with AI right now? Okay. 39 00:03:03,758.997 --> 00:03:18,598.997 so you can't tell today, but I did do my color analysis and for folks that might remember during COVID, there was this big surge online on TikTok and Instagram about getting your colors done. 40 00:03:18,628.996 --> 00:03:29,828.997 So what colors look good on you? What colors look bad on you? There are a bunch of professionals that do it and you can actually go in and they'll put different colors over you to see what's the best fit for you. 41 00:03:29,858.997 --> 00:03:41,178.997 And one of the things I did was took a selfie, uploaded it and did the color analysis, Were you pleased with the color analysis? Are they colors you would wear? Is it, does it work? Yeah, I think it works. 42 00:03:41,878.997 --> 00:03:58,563.998 I guess you'll have to see next episode when I incorporate it into my outfit, but I think what's interesting is it does give you a family of colors to work with and a few things that I may not have considered, but do look good in and some things that I should definitely avoid and are sitting in my closet now. 43 00:03:58,803.998 --> 00:04:01,253.998 So spring cleaning coming soon. 44 00:04:01,496.998 --> 00:04:01,796.998 Yeah. 45 00:04:01,946.998 --> 00:04:09,886.998 You think about this, right? I think that with marketers having something like color analysis, if you're in e commerce, Yes. 46 00:04:10,161.998 --> 00:04:17,861.998 Maybe this is a tool if you're sell clothing, like this is an interesting way to get people to engage with your brand a little bit differently than maybe they have in the past. 47 00:04:18,121.998 --> 00:04:25,691.9985 I've heard about these mirrors at some stores that will take a picture of you in like in the mirror and then dress you in something. 48 00:04:25,861.9975 --> 00:04:29,41.9975 And so you can see what you look like with the clothing on without actually having to try it on. 49 00:04:29,301.9975 --> 00:04:32,871.9975 I wonder if we're just headed to a future where they're like, actually these colors look great on you. 50 00:04:33,81.9975 --> 00:04:34,491.9975 Do you know what? It's like the movie clueless. 51 00:04:35,463.9985 --> 00:04:36,403.9985 That's what I was going to say. 52 00:04:36,403.9985 --> 00:04:40,703.9995 I was just going to reference that it is we're coming into the Cher era. 53 00:04:41,141.9995 --> 00:04:45,281.9995 the opposite of clueless Ken, who do we have on the show today? I'm really excited. 54 00:04:45,684.9995 --> 00:04:46,704.9995 Yeah, I am too. 55 00:04:46,784.9995 --> 00:04:56,374.9995 Today we've got Andy Crestodina and he is the co founder and CMO of Orbit Media, and he leads a 50 person digital marketing agency actually in Chicago. 56 00:04:56,644.9995 --> 00:05:06,144.9995 But he's got 24 years of experience and is known out there for being an expert at SEO content, all aspects of marketing. 57 00:05:06,314.9995 --> 00:05:10,584.9995 He's actually the author of a book called content chemistry, the illustrated handbook. 58 00:05:10,834.9995 --> 00:05:25,831.9985 For content marketing, and so he's going to talk to us about things from SEO to content marketing to how the quality of generative AI might be good enough or bad enough for content, or is it just making the internet a horrible place? Yeah. 59 00:05:25,831.9995 --> 00:05:26,931.9985 I'm really looking forward to it. 60 00:05:26,931.9995 --> 00:05:32,951.9995 I really enjoy his newsletter and I think that he provides some practical tips, which is, what we're all about. 61 00:05:33,21.9995 --> 00:05:34,661.9995 so we'll be right back with that interview. 62 00:05:34,661.9995 --> 00:05:35,431.9995 And we're back. 63 00:05:35,761.9995 --> 00:05:36,861.9995 Today we're joined by Andy. 64 00:05:36,861.9995 --> 00:05:39,811.9995 Andy, why don't you tell us about yourself? Thanks for having me. 65 00:05:39,861.9995 --> 00:05:41,91.9995 I'm in Chicago here. 66 00:05:41,91.9995 --> 00:05:43,711.9995 I'm the co founder of a digital agency called Orbit Media. 67 00:05:43,961.9995 --> 00:05:45,561.9995 Orbit's a web design and development company. 68 00:05:45,561.9995 --> 00:05:46,911.9985 We also do website optimization. 69 00:05:47,481.9985 --> 00:05:48,971.9985 This is year like 24. 70 00:05:49,41.9995 --> 00:06:02,306.9995 So I've been in it a long time and hopefully have useful perspectives on topics like, SEO and AI and conversion optimization and content strategy and influencer marketing and email and social and blogging and such. 71 00:06:02,326.9995 --> 00:06:03,156.9995 All the things. 72 00:06:03,376.9995 --> 00:06:04,96.9995 All the things. 73 00:06:04,256.9985 --> 00:06:04,466.9985 Nope. 74 00:06:04,476.9975 --> 00:06:06,306.9975 Glad to be here and looking forward to the conversation. 75 00:06:06,806.9975 --> 00:06:07,136.9975 Awesome. 76 00:06:07,186.9975 --> 00:06:08,76.9985 We're happy to have you. 77 00:06:08,116.9985 --> 00:06:09,536.997 And let's just dive right in. 78 00:06:09,556.997 --> 00:06:23,576.998 So we've all been experiencing a ton of change with AI and, from your perspective, what's been happening in the world of AI related to search and SEO? It is a huge disruption and it's it's just getting started. 79 00:06:24,226.998 --> 00:06:28,656.998 So we have not yet seen how Google is integrating AI into their search results. 80 00:06:29,46.998 --> 00:06:33,786.997 If you haven't heard the term SGE, the search generative experience, you're gonna hear that a lot. 81 00:06:34,266.998 --> 00:06:36,366.9985 It just as a user, your experience will change. 82 00:06:36,416.9975 --> 00:06:42,276.9985 You're going to start seeing kind of a summary, like a massive, think of it as like a massive featured snippet at the top of search results. 83 00:06:42,851.9985 --> 00:06:48,31.9985 You're looking for something that's got some organic listings, but then it's going to summarize those up high. 84 00:06:48,621.9985 --> 00:06:58,481.9975 And then even bigger than that, the change will partly be just, are people going to keep using search? I predict that a lot of people are going to start using AI apps to get quick answers. 85 00:06:58,891.9985 --> 00:07:11,421.9985 So there's going to be a big impact on the so called like information intent queries, and that a lot of that traffic and demand for browsers will decline as people learn just how useful AI is. 86 00:07:11,421.9985 --> 00:07:12,481.9985 Answering simple questions. 87 00:07:12,951.9985 --> 00:07:20,851.9985 At the same time, lots of stuff won't be as disrupted because people still want to go to websites to get, information about a possible solution or product or service. 88 00:07:20,901.9985 --> 00:07:23,731.9975 The most valuable traffic will be much less impact than I predict. 89 00:07:24,381.9985 --> 00:07:40,721.9985 It's interesting this weekend, I probably used perplexity AI to answer 10 questions I had, where in the past I would have gone to Google and I reminded me of something you said on a recent webinar that Gartner predicts a 25 percent drop in Google search in the future. 90 00:07:40,951.9975 --> 00:08:01,991.9985 What does that mean for marketers who are focused on SEO? So if my prediction is, comes true in that most of that decline in use of search which was what they're saying, a 25 percent drop in global search value means one in four things that we used Google for before browser plus Google plus websites. 91 00:08:02,416.9985 --> 00:08:09,626.9985 How did it goes away as people just ask AI to not retrieve an answer, but to generate the answer at every day, that's a great example. 92 00:08:09,626.9985 --> 00:08:14,746.9975 Ken, you're one of millions of people who are all gradually realizing that AI is just great, simple answers. 93 00:08:15,256.9975 --> 00:08:17,176.9975 And so some user behavioral shift. 94 00:08:17,736.9965 --> 00:08:22,416.9975 So what that means is it changes literally will change the value of websites. 95 00:08:22,446.9975 --> 00:08:24,856.9975 It'll change the strategy for content programs. 96 00:08:25,286.9975 --> 00:08:41,396.997 It will change how ads work and I, if you want to look back at an example of how this happened before, think about the revenue from news media, which, newspapers had revenue that peaked like in the nineties or something and then declined that was also information intent. 97 00:08:41,796.997 --> 00:08:52,776.997 So the fact, the ability of marketers and big tech and brands to monetize the information intent of a human in the world will probably decline. 98 00:08:53,276.997 --> 00:09:05,36.997 And lots of things that we just look for every day will just be considered basic human knowledge and you'll be able to get to it without an ad or a browser or getting retargeted or a pop up window or allowing cookies or accepting notifications. 99 00:09:05,36.997 --> 00:09:06,116.997 It's very noisy right now. 100 00:09:06,116.997 --> 00:09:07,256.997 The internet's pretty bad today. 101 00:09:07,256.997 --> 00:09:07,876.996 Let's be honest. 102 00:09:07,886.997 --> 00:09:09,866.996 The mobile experience is not good. 103 00:09:10,366.996 --> 00:09:11,556.996 Yeah, I agree with you. 104 00:09:11,556.996 --> 00:09:15,446.996 The experience is really tough and I think, we are up for change. 105 00:09:15,446.996 --> 00:09:16,6.996 It's time. 106 00:09:16,6.996 --> 00:09:19,346.997 That's something that gets better for us as the end user. 107 00:09:19,606.996 --> 00:09:38,151.9965 As this shift does happen, AI becomes more of a go to, how do you see that shifting buyers habits or how do you see that so far shift buying habits? Buyers, I think are going to be less impacted because let's say I'm looking for a piece of software or a service provider, or my wife today is talking to plumbers. 108 00:09:38,651.9965 --> 00:09:52,81.9965 AI is never going to be that great at serving up the latest reviews or the detailed information or the pros and cons or what this company really does or how close are they? when combined with search in like the SGE Google thing. 109 00:09:52,581.9965 --> 00:10:06,576.8965 There'll be utility there for all of us but people who are considering options, especially for those high consideration decisions, commercial intent sort of queries, you want to know what that company stands for, what do they believe, you're still going to want. 110 00:10:07,16.9965 --> 00:10:13,66.9965 So really what a marketer should be looking at now is does that key phrase have visit website intent? You probably never heard that term. 111 00:10:13,66.9965 --> 00:10:14,246.9965 No one ever uses that term. 112 00:10:14,446.9965 --> 00:10:16,546.9965 It's not a thing, but it should be a thing. 113 00:10:17,36.9965 --> 00:10:24,666.995 Does that key phrase have, don't target, be cautious targeting key phrases if you don't believe that key phrase really has visit website intent. 114 00:10:24,676.996 --> 00:10:29,206.996 So it's either a commercial intent phrase or the person's looking for a super long kind of detailed answer. 115 00:10:30,106.996 --> 00:10:36,596.996 Do you think you'll ever see though a buyer say, Hey, I'm looking for this type of solution. 116 00:10:36,786.996 --> 00:10:39,516.996 I know of two vendors, give me a pros cons of them. 117 00:10:40,16.996 --> 00:10:40,366.996 Yup. 118 00:10:40,606.997 --> 00:10:42,906.997 I think it's AI is very good at that in some ways. 119 00:10:42,956.997 --> 00:10:44,816.996 If you give it two things, it will compare them. 120 00:10:45,396.997 --> 00:10:46,916.997 It's going to get much better at that. 121 00:10:47,496.996 --> 00:10:49,506.997 AI just consumed the internet. 122 00:10:49,536.997 --> 00:10:52,976.997 It ingested the web, like whatever the common crawl, like 85 percent of the web. 123 00:10:53,366.997 --> 00:10:56,566.997 So I joke sometimes that AI might as well stand for average information. 124 00:10:57,391.997 --> 00:11:04,81.997 It's giving you the average of what it found, so it's going to look at what it found about Vendor A, Vendor B, and summarize a little comparison thing for you. 125 00:11:04,671.996 --> 00:11:09,241.995 You're not going to get the video of the founder talking about their values. 126 00:11:09,401.995 --> 00:11:14,361.995 You're not going to get reviews, the latest reviews of people, who are, have strong opinions about this. 127 00:11:14,362.095 --> 00:11:19,32.095 You're not going to get the detailed case study that might be especially relevant to your use case. 128 00:11:19,532.095 --> 00:11:24,292.095 I think that there are AI is great and we're excited about it and I'm excited about it. 129 00:11:24,292.095 --> 00:11:39,642.096 And it's ridiculously useful, but it has limits and, for lots of things, for, visual things or, super detailed things or personal points of view, very current newsy what happened yesterday, it's not good for those things. 130 00:11:40,122.096 --> 00:11:40,872.096 And we'll all learn that. 131 00:11:40,872.096 --> 00:11:41,822.096 And we'll, at our. 132 00:11:42,227.096 --> 00:11:46,937.096 Behavior as users of the internet will divide and we'll use AI apps over here and then search over there. 133 00:11:47,437.096 --> 00:11:52,847.096 It's interesting talking about the evolution and the 85 percent ingestion now. 134 00:11:53,77.096 --> 00:11:59,447.096 in your digital marketing tips newsletter, which everyone should subscribe if you aren't, it's such an invaluable tool. 135 00:11:59,517.097 --> 00:12:18,217.097 You talked about the seven ways to use ChatGPT for higher ranking, and that was eight months ago that post in particular, what's different today and what do you think are some tips that still hold true? One thing I don't really do with that is like just flood the internet with tons of, automatically generated, low quality content. 136 00:12:18,217.097 --> 00:12:19,7.097 I don't recommend that. 137 00:12:19,7.097 --> 00:12:20,287.097 I don't think it's helpful for the internet. 138 00:12:20,337.097 --> 00:12:22,537.097 I don't think it's good for your visitor or for your brand. 139 00:12:23,37.097 --> 00:12:29,267.098 What really helps a brand is when a human in the world sees a thing that is so useful that they remember it for months later. 140 00:12:29,837.098 --> 00:12:31,827.098 Thank you, Erin, for thinking of that post. 141 00:12:32,327.098 --> 00:12:33,707.098 That's what you're supposed to be doing here. 142 00:12:33,947.098 --> 00:12:46,337.098 That's what the content strategist's job is to make something that doesn't just rank or even rank and get traffic, but when the right person sees it, they think of it, and they remember it over a long period of time. 143 00:12:46,837.098 --> 00:12:50,657.099 So your job is to make something that is disarmingly surprisingly helpful. 144 00:12:51,207.099 --> 00:12:57,697.098 How do you make something memorable? The things that I put in that, it's like, How to have AI suggest title tags that would have higher click through rates. 145 00:12:58,27.098 --> 00:12:59,277.098 Definitely, we should all do that. 146 00:12:59,787.098 --> 00:13:04,767.098 How to have AI recommend copy edits that would include keyphrases for which the page ranks but aren't on the page. 147 00:13:04,997.098 --> 00:13:05,637.098 Yeah, of course. 148 00:13:05,757.098 --> 00:13:06,877.098 Let's definitely do that. 149 00:13:07,317.098 --> 00:13:12,527.098 Now, how to get AI to recommend internal links, from the pages that have good authority to the pages that almost rank high. 150 00:13:12,917.097 --> 00:13:15,187.098 Yeah, I think everyone should do that. 151 00:13:15,227.098 --> 00:13:15,907.098 Do that today. 152 00:13:16,437.098 --> 00:13:30,787.098 But what what I think, I love your question, I don't mean to dodge it, but I think that there's like an evergreen thing here, like an important message, which is that you have experiences and a personal point of view that can connect with the reader on a level that AI can't touch. 153 00:13:31,517.098 --> 00:13:32,787.0985 I just saw a presentation by J. 154 00:13:32,807.0985 --> 00:13:32,817.0985 I. 155 00:13:32,817.0995 --> 00:13:33,237.0985 Kunzo. 156 00:13:33,237.0985 --> 00:13:40,267.0985 He says, humans and AIs both have LLMs, but AI has a large language model and you have little life moments. 157 00:13:40,797.0985 --> 00:13:44,837.0985 He makes this gorgeous argument for, just being more human and more personal. 158 00:13:45,337.0985 --> 00:13:55,137.0985 What we should do is, yes, target keyphrases, yes, improve click through rates, yes, rank higher, yes, do better internal linking, yes, include keywords and semantic SEO and all the things. 159 00:13:55,137.0985 --> 00:13:57,497.0985 I'm an SEO from years ago. 160 00:13:57,997.0985 --> 00:14:08,37.0995 What really has to also happen, that's insufficient, because what also has to happen is the person who lands and reads these words feels a connection and remembers you made an impact. 161 00:14:08,77.0995 --> 00:14:22,497.099 Like, how did this thing help someone? In their day, did it connect with them? Did they relate to it? Was there a connection and on the emotional level? So that's what SEO suck at to be blunt about it and need to fix come on, people, we can do better. 162 00:14:22,497.099 --> 00:14:24,747.0985 Let's make something that's that comes from the heart. 163 00:14:25,127.0975 --> 00:14:26,627.0975 I think SEOs need that message. 164 00:14:27,367.0985 --> 00:14:35,987.0985 I remember reading a recent study from Forrester that actually mentioned that right now we're in this era of AI, but in 10 years, buyers might actually. 165 00:14:36,277.0985 --> 00:14:40,977.0985 Have a bias against AI generated content because there just might be an influx of it. 166 00:14:41,137.0985 --> 00:14:43,747.0985 So we're constantly going to be having to watch this. 167 00:14:43,947.0985 --> 00:14:48,927.0985 I think marketing should try to stay as human as possible because that's how people connect to brands. 168 00:14:49,167.0975 --> 00:15:01,987.0975 But speaking about a little bit more about AI and SEO, how do you see AI shaping tactics like on page optimization and link building, particularly for B2B? Let's do on page optimization first. 169 00:15:01,987.0975 --> 00:15:02,17.0975 Okay. 170 00:15:02,42.0975 --> 00:15:13,392.0975 I think that probably when you combine the tools in the ways that, where people like me are doing them step by step, probably there will be a button that you press that says optimize, and it'll just optimize the post for search. 171 00:15:14,162.0965 --> 00:15:29,272.0975 I hate to say that but I could imagine exactly how I would build that if I were at a SEO software company, you'd basically analyze the performance of that by checking all of its current rankings, validating that as a greater potential to rank through by confirming its. 172 00:15:29,737.0975 --> 00:15:31,897.0975 Authority and the keywords difficulty. 173 00:15:32,557.0975 --> 00:15:45,361.9985 And then if there is a possible upside to recommend edits to the page that would go into the subtopics and answer related questions and, use all the semantically related phrases, okay, that actually can be done by, through a, through a. 174 00:15:46,122.0985 --> 00:15:51,402.0985 It's better when done by a human because you can make something that is in fact memorable and personal and connects. 175 00:15:51,682.0985 --> 00:15:56,272.0985 But is, will there be a button that says optimize? Will it be a WordPress plugin? Probably yes. 176 00:15:56,922.0985 --> 00:16:02,402.0985 What is that? What does that do for rankings and for content? I agree, Ted. 177 00:16:02,412.0985 --> 00:16:09,12.199 It's not really that likely to it'll be easy to compete against that content because it tastes like butter. 178 00:16:09,692.199 --> 00:16:10,362.199 It's boring. 179 00:16:10,842.199 --> 00:16:11,832.199 It doesn't have. 180 00:16:12,117.199 --> 00:16:12,927.199 A point of view. 181 00:16:13,487.199 --> 00:16:22,547.199 If you want to compete with AI, all you have to do is have a strong opinion, collaborate with friends or record yourself, right? Because AI has no opinions. 182 00:16:22,597.199 --> 00:16:24,567.2 It has no friends and it has no face. 183 00:16:24,667.2 --> 00:16:27,627.2 It's very easy to differentiate your content from AI. 184 00:16:28,247.2 --> 00:16:32,427.2 It will, it's like when fiber came out, like there's a flood of low quality content. 185 00:16:33,22.2 --> 00:16:36,342.2 It was just good for all of us who actually work hard on their content. 186 00:16:36,842.2 --> 00:16:38,522.2 Link building? I have no idea. 187 00:16:38,552.2 --> 00:16:40,342.2 I hate to think of what these people do at scale. 188 00:16:40,342.2 --> 00:16:41,182.2 It's a nightmare. 189 00:16:41,242.199 --> 00:16:43,712.2 The automated outreach? Please. 190 00:16:43,942.2 --> 00:16:50,402.199 Who is ever out there doing that? Can you just pause for a minute? I could, I should share screenshots of my inbox. 191 00:16:50,402.2 --> 00:16:54,512.2 It's just flooded! Who does this work for? It's just gross. 192 00:16:54,572.2 --> 00:16:59,100.684 In my LinkedIn, it's ruining my Please stop DMing me and sending me cold emails. 193 00:16:59,100.684 --> 00:17:00,612.2 Please stop DMing me and sending me cold emails. 194 00:17:00,912.2 --> 00:17:05,922.2 I've got a pro tip for anyone who cares about their brand, never send a cold email. 195 00:17:06,322.2 --> 00:17:11,462.2 Why would you do that? You can just start a conversation somewhere else and then follow up with an email. 196 00:17:11,962.2 --> 00:17:12,672.199 Don't recommend. 197 00:17:13,302.2 --> 00:17:15,952.201 I think link building is gross in its current form. 198 00:17:16,252.201 --> 00:17:25,372.1985 And collaborative content attracts links organically by sharing value with influencers and subject matter experts is a fantastic way to do marketing. 199 00:17:25,372.1985 --> 00:17:29,272.1985 I would never write an article about a contributor quote, but I have never sent a cold email. 200 00:17:29,772.1985 --> 00:17:30,922.1985 Death of the cold email. 201 00:17:30,932.1985 --> 00:17:32,122.1985 I would love that. 202 00:17:32,122.1985 --> 00:17:35,162.1985 I think we all appreciate that in our inboxes. 203 00:17:35,662.1985 --> 00:17:41,882.1985 Switching gears a little bit, Google Analytics 4 brings a change for marketers and requires more technical skills. 204 00:17:42,282.1985 --> 00:17:53,292.1985 How are you using AI to pull deeper insights in your analytics data? If you see a useful report in analytics, you can click the export button and then download that as a CSV. 205 00:17:54,52.1985 --> 00:17:55,872.1985 And then upload that to AI. 206 00:17:56,92.1985 --> 00:17:58,52.1985 You should probably clean it up a little bit first. 207 00:17:58,202.1985 --> 00:18:01,492.1985 Everything you export from GA4 has nine rows at the top you should delete. 208 00:18:01,992.1985 --> 00:18:04,212.1995 Upload that to AI and just start talking to it about the data. 209 00:18:04,712.1995 --> 00:18:09,572.1995 So let's say I make a report that has all of my landing pages in the first column. 210 00:18:09,672.1985 --> 00:18:13,512.1985 And then I click the blue plus to add another column for session source medium. 211 00:18:14,12.1985 --> 00:18:23,392.1985 And then as long as all the metrics are there, users, sessions, engagement rate, average engagement time key conversion rate, you can put bounce rate on there, whatever metrics you like. 212 00:18:23,772.1985 --> 00:18:36,252.1975 If you upload that to AI and just say, which content has gets traction in social? Which track, which content gets traction in search? It's actually best if you make that first column of your page titles because it can infer topics. 213 00:18:36,762.1975 --> 00:18:39,532.1985 Then you can start to ask AI all about, it's a research assistant. 214 00:18:39,692.1985 --> 00:18:56,462.299 So hey, what have I never written, but should write? what are the articles that have the highest engagement rates have in common? which of my articles should have higher performance in search but don't based on this dataset? Like it'll tell you, and some of it's wrong or not useful, if so what? It's not an expensive exercise. 215 00:18:56,812.299 --> 00:19:01,162.299 You do need ChatGPT which costs 20 bucks, but I've had cocktails that cost 20 bucks. 216 00:19:01,202.299 --> 00:19:04,827.199 Why are we trying to save 20 dollars on a this super powerful technology? ChatGPT. 217 00:19:05,327.199 --> 00:19:06,377.199 Hey, I'm with you. 218 00:19:06,467.199 --> 00:19:12,747.199 I think the other thing that's interesting is just getting insights that we haven't had readily available to us historically. 219 00:19:13,167.199 --> 00:19:29,787.1995 I'd love to get your perspective on, you talked about what would resonate on social but what's a tip that you can give marketers listening to the podcast that maybe had been unavailable before or hard to access and now much easier with Chat GPT or any other tool AI tool they're using? Yeah. 220 00:19:29,867.1995 --> 00:19:36,707.1995 One thing I've been doing that I'm recommending, and if you see me at a conference, you might hear me say this AI is fantastic for gap analysis. 221 00:19:36,857.1995 --> 00:19:38,987.1985 You can give it a thing and say what's missing from this thing. 222 00:19:39,597.1985 --> 00:19:40,247.1985 Could be an article. 223 00:19:40,247.1995 --> 00:19:42,327.1995 It could be a webpage, could be your marketing strategy. 224 00:19:42,327.1995 --> 00:19:44,217.1985 It could be your ideal client profiles. 225 00:19:44,787.1995 --> 00:19:48,807.1995 And an expert can look at a thing and also tell you what's missing, but it's more, but it's difficult. 226 00:19:49,307.1995 --> 00:19:55,827.1995 It's Which of my audiences information needs are unmet with the copywriting on my homepage. 227 00:19:56,467.1995 --> 00:19:56,877.1995 Okay. 228 00:19:56,927.1995 --> 00:20:02,177.1985 A hardcore conversion strategist can look closely at that page and tell you, but you need lots of experience. 229 00:20:02,187.1995 --> 00:20:06,707.2015 Just a normal marketer like me, can look at a page now, can use AI to find gaps. 230 00:20:06,707.2015 --> 00:20:09,307.2015 But here's one ChatGPT, that is like an AI only method. 231 00:20:09,917.2015 --> 00:20:16,637.2015 If you give it your industry and say, what are the most important topics in this industry? that are not covered by the big blogs. 232 00:20:17,297.2015 --> 00:20:18,127.2015 It will tell you. 233 00:20:19,117.2015 --> 00:20:25,477.2015 One of the most thought provoking, counter narrative opinions that are least likely to be discussed by thought leaders in my industry. 234 00:20:25,757.2015 --> 00:20:26,447.2015 It'll tell you. 235 00:20:27,107.2015 --> 00:20:31,977.2015 It's not possible for a human to read every article in a vertical and then tell you what's missing. 236 00:20:32,577.2005 --> 00:20:36,457.2005 That's that's an AI only strategy It's, catnip for social media. 237 00:20:36,457.2005 --> 00:20:39,127.2005 You're going to get lots of ideas that you could write about or not. 238 00:20:39,177.2005 --> 00:20:39,727.2005 It's up to you. 239 00:20:39,727.2005 --> 00:20:41,177.2005 You pick the ones that you find interesting. 240 00:20:41,177.2005 --> 00:20:42,647.1995 It'll tell you something that you find boring. 241 00:20:42,647.1995 --> 00:20:44,117.1995 That's an important point about AI, by the way. 242 00:20:44,437.1995 --> 00:20:50,447.1995 Don't judge it based on, spent 45 seconds writing a prompt and getting a response and you didn't like it. 243 00:20:51,67.1985 --> 00:20:56,277.1995 Yeah, you weren't really trying too hard yet, were you? Don't dismiss it based on one or two responses. 244 00:20:56,657.1995 --> 00:21:01,312.1995 If 80 percent of what it gives you is garbage, so what? The 20 percent might be gold. 245 00:21:01,972.1995 --> 00:21:02,572.1995 That's fine. 246 00:21:02,592.1995 --> 00:21:03,782.1995 That's a great ROI. 247 00:21:04,422.1995 --> 00:21:11,742.1985 So anyway, that, but AI powered gap analysis especially if you give it the persona first or upload your ICPs first, it's extremely useful. 248 00:21:12,612.1985 --> 00:21:14,82.1985 I'm totally going to use that tip. 249 00:21:14,292.1995 --> 00:21:15,2.1995 I love that one. 250 00:21:15,682.1995 --> 00:21:15,952.199 Yeah. 251 00:21:15,952.199 --> 00:21:21,552.1985 That's just got a light bulb above my head right now here, because I'm totally going to try that as well. 252 00:21:21,822.1985 --> 00:21:23,722.1985 Working with many clients and. 253 00:21:24,257.1985 --> 00:21:28,267.1985 Try to understand how they're using AI and doing your own work. 254 00:21:28,477.1985 --> 00:21:43,987.1985 Is there a tool or prompt you found, like you just think like all marketers should be, trying right now? Yeah, it's in this one, I also teach a lot I have there's something that all of my most successful adventures in AI have in common, which is they begin with the persona. 255 00:21:44,677.1985 --> 00:21:49,317.1985 I have nicely defined kind of battle tested personas that I can upload and I can upload my own data. 256 00:21:49,327.1985 --> 00:21:50,677.1985 So I'm not concerned about uploading data to AI. 257 00:21:51,327.1985 --> 00:22:09,597.1965 If you don't have that, there's a persona prompt that I use that is, that does a lot of that job where you just fill in the blanks and sounds like this, build me a persona of a job title with roles and responsibilities in industry or company size or geography. 258 00:22:10,97.1965 --> 00:22:16,17.1975 This person's looking for help with challenge or task, and they're considering product or service. 259 00:22:16,947.1975 --> 00:22:20,357.1975 So that it immediately is going to make a persona and it's going to be named Alex. 260 00:22:20,477.1975 --> 00:22:21,457.1975 It's almost always named Alex. 261 00:22:22,132.1975 --> 00:22:25,2.1975 And the fourth thing, the next part of the prompt is has four things. 262 00:22:25,12.1975 --> 00:22:35,562.1965 It says, list their hopes and dreams, list their fears and concerns, list their emotional triggers, and their decision criteria for selecting a company in my industry it'll be partly wrong. 263 00:22:35,582.1975 --> 00:22:36,432.1975 You have to fix it. 264 00:22:36,442.1975 --> 00:22:37,452.1965 Tell it what it missed. 265 00:22:37,452.1965 --> 00:22:38,662.1975 It never trust AI. 266 00:22:38,812.1975 --> 00:22:41,342.1975 I also joke, AI might as well stand for assume incorrect. 267 00:22:41,422.1975 --> 00:22:42,132.1975 Of course it's wrong. 268 00:22:42,242.1975 --> 00:22:42,952.1975 It doesn't know you. 269 00:22:42,972.1975 --> 00:22:43,902.1975 It just read the internet. 270 00:22:43,902.1975 --> 00:22:46,142.1965 It's averaging, so fix it, whatever it gives you. 271 00:22:46,882.1975 --> 00:22:47,712.1975 But then. 272 00:22:48,432.1975 --> 00:22:50,952.1975 You're ready now that it's trained on your audience. 273 00:22:51,462.1975 --> 00:22:57,72.1975 You're really ready to use AI finally, right? Everything you do without this step is very unlikely to be targeted. 274 00:22:57,312.1975 --> 00:22:59,772.1975 Everything you do after this step is very likely to be targeted. 275 00:23:00,552.1975 --> 00:23:01,352.1975 So then talk to it. 276 00:23:01,472.1975 --> 00:23:10,992.1975 It's what's missing from this page? What would help you do your job? What claims do people make in our industry that are least likely to be supported by evidence? I'll go do a research piece. 277 00:23:11,492.1975 --> 00:23:19,822.1975 What do you, what what topics provoke strong emotion and are triggering? We'd start a conversation now, you know what to do on social media. 278 00:23:20,142.1975 --> 00:23:23,102.1975 This is like just everything that you do after that is. 279 00:23:23,672.1975 --> 00:23:25,722.1975 10X more relevant. 280 00:23:25,722.1975 --> 00:23:32,712.1975 It would be surprising, it'd be bad if AI was somehow, an expert on all of us without us telling it who we're talking to. 281 00:23:32,712.1975 --> 00:23:33,342.1975 That would be weird. 282 00:23:33,992.1975 --> 00:23:37,582.1975 You've discussed using AI to create synthetic audience personas. 283 00:23:38,92.1975 --> 00:23:56,172.1985 Can you talk a little bit about that approach? Does it help, with the content creation process or personalization or the relevance and the content you guys are thinking about creating? Yeah, that, that's really the point is if you don't have, if you don't create, it's a fancy way and the word synthetic pops up a lot on AI. 284 00:23:56,612.1985 --> 00:23:57,912.1985 It's a fancy way to say the same thing. 285 00:23:57,912.1985 --> 00:23:59,52.1985 It's train it on your persona. 286 00:23:59,722.1985 --> 00:24:15,662.201 If you get a good persona that AI made for you and you like it, and you feel like you're getting more accurate responses from it, one trick is to then just like copy and paste it into a PDF and share it with your team or upload it to like a shared prompt library, which we should all have so that other people can collaborate with you. 287 00:24:16,162.201 --> 00:24:17,872.202 Look, I'm doing marketing with mine. 288 00:24:17,872.202 --> 00:24:19,402.202 I describe ways to do marketing with it. 289 00:24:19,752.202 --> 00:24:22,352.202 What about the sales team? ChatGPT, maybe you have experience with this. 290 00:24:23,12.202 --> 00:24:24,702.202 Creating a An artificial member of your audience. 291 00:24:24,702.202 --> 00:24:50,477.202 And then how do you use that for sales? I think there's a use case to especially onboard new sales folks or BDRs, have them interact with it And if you're thinking, yeah, you don't want the cold emails for certain, but if you do get somebody and you're trying to craft an email or you're get them on the phone, I think as a new person, especially newer to an industry, how would this person react if I said this? I don't know. 292 00:24:50,977.202 --> 00:24:53,957.1015 Yeah, it's know what I want to do when I don't have the raw material for it yet. 293 00:24:54,397.2015 --> 00:25:19,967.2015 But imagine if you had the last hundred sales calls you did recorded and you gave that to the AI and started asking it questions like, what is our, what is the most common question we get during sales? Which questions indicate there's an objection that hasn't been addressed? What is our best answer to these questions? And what are the aha moments for the audience or for our prospect? The, there will be features within CRMs probably. 294 00:25:20,562.2015 --> 00:25:30,322.2005 That will ingest dozens or hundreds of previous sales calls, find patterns, and then help you craft better conversations like sales playbooks. 295 00:25:31,142.2015 --> 00:25:35,962.2015 I like your idea of what are the most common questions? What are the, some of that I hadn't really thought about that. 296 00:25:35,962.2015 --> 00:25:40,872.1995 I was looking more to create, scripting and stuff like that, but I like that use case. 297 00:25:40,892.1995 --> 00:25:41,342.2005 That's a good one. 298 00:25:42,2.2005 --> 00:25:42,332.2005 Yeah. 299 00:25:42,806.078051 --> 00:25:48,977.6885 I've got I just finished a big sales enablement project now that I have really strong ICPs and sales and messaging frameworks. 300 00:25:49,277.6885 --> 00:25:50,997.6885 Here's my list of next steps. 301 00:25:51,407.6885 --> 00:25:53,227.6885 Audit and update all the web pages. 302 00:25:53,847.6885 --> 00:25:56,327.6885 Give AI the persona, give AI the webpage. 303 00:25:56,817.6885 --> 00:25:58,887.6885 There's Write and launch new nurture sequences. 304 00:25:59,317.6885 --> 00:26:01,287.6885 Audit all the existing nurture sequences. 305 00:26:01,587.6885 --> 00:26:03,587.6885 Update the contact form and the thank you page. 306 00:26:03,917.6875 --> 00:26:07,27.6885 Create new sales focused content, especially articles and case studies. 307 00:26:07,587.6885 --> 00:26:11,557.6885 Create videos and guides for each of the key messages in the messaging framework. 308 00:26:11,937.6885 --> 00:26:13,932.5885 Audit all the articles and case studies. 309 00:26:14,422.6885 --> 00:26:16,172.6885 And then write new standard follow up emails. 310 00:26:16,672.6885 --> 00:26:23,352.6885 Those are all things that are, that will be better now that I have AI friendly ICPs that I can use to give a few pointers. 311 00:26:24,52.6885 --> 00:26:25,452.6875 And this will be a very manual process. 312 00:26:25,482.6885 --> 00:26:27,912.6875 I'm not trying to abdicate my job, right? I'm just looking. 313 00:26:28,442.6875 --> 00:26:32,142.6895 Here's my third and final AI like me changing the definition. 314 00:26:32,627.6895 --> 00:26:34,17.6895 AI is just another input. 315 00:26:34,777.6895 --> 00:26:35,457.6895 That's all it is. 316 00:26:35,537.6895 --> 00:26:36,507.6895 It's just another input. 317 00:26:37,127.6895 --> 00:26:39,187.6895 These are just, it's just another point of view. 318 00:26:39,197.6895 --> 00:26:41,497.6885 You can take it or leave it and move on. 319 00:26:41,997.6885 --> 00:26:42,457.6885 Yeah. 320 00:26:42,567.6885 --> 00:26:43,127.6875 It's interesting. 321 00:26:43,127.6885 --> 00:26:47,147.6875 You think about Gong, right? That's all those sales conversation pools. 322 00:26:47,697.6885 --> 00:26:59,317.6875 I've been able to find really interesting things like when they mentioned a specific customer as a customer story in the call, the, they, it actually moves to stage two faster. 323 00:26:59,427.6885 --> 00:27:05,697.6895 Or you're able to see if the buyer brings up price too early on the conversation, that it's not really going to move through. 324 00:27:05,787.6895 --> 00:27:07,467.6895 So I, it is a nice aid. 325 00:27:07,587.6895 --> 00:27:08,927.6895 A lot of that is a little bit manual. 326 00:27:08,927.6895 --> 00:27:09,987.5895 I know GOMD does a lot of quick. 327 00:27:10,127.6895 --> 00:27:11,937.6895 Aggregate analysis of that. 328 00:27:11,997.6895 --> 00:27:12,607.6895 But you're right. 329 00:27:12,737.6895 --> 00:27:18,347.6885 I'm just able to plot some small nuggets to create some trends, but I'm curious to see what more I can do. 330 00:27:18,647.6895 --> 00:27:18,867.6895 Okay. 331 00:27:18,867.6895 --> 00:27:26,617.6885 You mentioned it a few times, like a little bit of caution around using AI because of the poor quality that it can provide. 332 00:27:26,877.6885 --> 00:27:35,917.6885 How could marketers do a better job validating or improving their outputs and the content that's generated? Hopefully the marketer is. 333 00:27:35,917.6885 --> 00:27:44,437.6885 Using their brain, when you look at a thing, you have to really look at it critically imagine you hire a writer, and the writer comes back with four drafts of articles. 334 00:27:45,62.6885 --> 00:27:47,782.6885 You would never just automatically approve those by default. 335 00:27:47,792.6885 --> 00:27:49,102.6885 You would look at them with a skeptical eye. 336 00:27:49,272.6885 --> 00:27:54,132.6895 Why would AI be any different? So I think we just need to take it for what it is. 337 00:27:54,132.6895 --> 00:27:56,772.6895 It just quickly generated an outline or a draft. 338 00:27:57,32.6885 --> 00:28:01,316.1571667 Another one is I just don't think that it's all need to decide in our careers, like what we're passionate about. 339 00:28:01,316.1571667 --> 00:28:09,12.7895 What do you want to do with your life? What do you want to be when you grow up? And then don't abdicate that part of the job because that's something you care about. 340 00:28:09,512.7895 --> 00:28:22,522.7895 In my experience, so the content that I write, it's highly formatted, it's lots of structure, subheads and bullet lists and bolding and, tight sentences and some extreme, short paragraphs and tons of visuals. 341 00:28:23,182.7895 --> 00:28:24,972.7895 AI is not very good at any of that stuff. 342 00:28:25,82.7895 --> 00:28:26,602.7905 It doesn't really do those things well. 343 00:28:27,187.7895 --> 00:28:28,197.7895 Okay, no problem. 344 00:28:28,197.7895 --> 00:28:31,147.7895 I'm going to use AI earlier in the process to come up with ideas. 345 00:28:31,147.7895 --> 00:28:36,947.7895 So think about it's do you use it to write articles? What does that mean? There's 11 steps involved with like write articles. 346 00:28:37,357.7895 --> 00:28:38,247.7885 So break it down. 347 00:28:38,707.7895 --> 00:28:39,747.7895 Good for ideation. 348 00:28:39,877.7895 --> 00:28:40,237.7895 Yeah. 349 00:28:40,457.7895 --> 00:28:42,637.7895 If you don't, if you need an idea, it can help with that. 350 00:28:42,737.7885 --> 00:28:46,77.7895 Especially if you give it GA4 reports, it'll help you a lot with that. 351 00:28:46,637.7895 --> 00:28:48,777.7895 And then, this is a developing a point of view. 352 00:28:48,777.7895 --> 00:28:53,737.7895 What topics are missing? What strong opinions would be interesting? This is called POV development where we talked about a minute ago, thought leadership. 353 00:28:54,397.7895 --> 00:28:59,467.7895 And then, to create a draft outline, okay, it won't be very good, so fix it. 354 00:28:59,867.7895 --> 00:29:02,257.7895 And then make a first draft article, if you want. 355 00:29:02,287.7895 --> 00:29:04,37.7895 I don't do that, but that's what some people like. 356 00:29:04,247.7895 --> 00:29:13,157.7885 So break down big jobs into small jobs and look, the people who are the best at AI are looking at it at almost the task level. 357 00:29:13,657.7885 --> 00:29:19,167.7885 You break that, you break jobs down into small tasks and look for an AI use case for each of those tasks. 358 00:29:19,207.7885 --> 00:29:21,757.7885 And for some, there are good use cases, for some there are not. 359 00:29:22,257.7885 --> 00:29:27,547.7885 But in the end, yeah, AI suggested that I read an article about advanced lead generation tactics. 360 00:29:27,547.7885 --> 00:29:29,517.7885 That's actually a pretty cool idea. 361 00:29:29,987.7885 --> 00:29:35,767.7865 And so Friday morning, I started working on it and by Monday morning, I've got a it's about half done. 362 00:29:36,267.7865 --> 00:29:38,297.7855 That will be a good I'm excited about this article. 363 00:29:38,297.7855 --> 00:29:50,297.8855 Actually AI just gave me the idea, but no way can AI create a very differentiated article on that topic for me I might ask it a couple of points what else should this article have? My ideas for this Advanced Legion article. 364 00:29:50,347.8855 --> 00:29:51,897.8855 I'm, it's going to be good. 365 00:29:52,87.8855 --> 00:29:52,707.8855 I'm excited. 366 00:29:53,207.8855 --> 00:29:54,447.8855 It's super fascinating, too. 367 00:29:54,477.8855 --> 00:30:02,937.8855 What I find particularly interesting about what you just said is you can do that because of your domain expertise in your areas. 368 00:30:03,167.8845 --> 00:30:15,822.8855 And so what I'm wondering right now is If you're early career marketer, how is AI going to impact your job or what your future job is? Because, we've all been working a little while we've been doing our work. 369 00:30:16,52.8855 --> 00:30:17,192.8855 We know it pretty well. 370 00:30:17,222.8855 --> 00:30:20,512.8855 We probably know our personas, so we can really use it to enhance our experience. 371 00:30:20,512.8855 --> 00:30:24,652.7855 But I do wonder what AI will do for more junior level marketers where. 372 00:30:24,822.8855 --> 00:30:31,592.8855 Some of the work that they would have traditionally done, it can be replaced by ChatGPT or something more advanced that'll come soon. 373 00:30:32,92.8855 --> 00:30:35,812.8845 I think the data shows right now that AI is a skills leveler. 374 00:30:36,312.8845 --> 00:30:38,332.8845 So I've done SEO for 24 years. 375 00:30:38,332.8845 --> 00:30:49,682.8845 You don't need me to get some of those results because a person with good prompts and good training can do many of those things without 20 years of experience. 376 00:30:50,247.8845 --> 00:31:06,787.8835 So I think in the short run, it will bring up the level of those more junior marketers, but whether or not they continue to grow in their skills will depend on them stepping away from AI and going deep into the topics, the audience, empathy, the data. 377 00:31:07,507.8855 --> 00:31:10,217.8835 So an example, advanced lead gen strategies. 378 00:31:10,367.8835 --> 00:31:13,177.8835 One of my tips is to find the pages. 379 00:31:13,527.8845 --> 00:31:18,477.8845 And traffic source combinations that have the highest conversion rates and focus on those. 380 00:31:18,667.8845 --> 00:31:30,547.8845 That's not like a normal thing, right? A conversion optimizer might not think of that, but if you can find which of your landing pages from which of your traffic sources have the high in combination, have the highest conversion rates and then make those work harder. 381 00:31:30,947.8855 --> 00:31:31,677.8855 That will work. 382 00:31:31,697.8855 --> 00:31:32,697.8855 You're going to get more leads. 383 00:31:32,727.8855 --> 00:31:42,347.8855 I am a hundred percent confident in that strategy, but if you just prompt AI, it's not going to recommend that it's going to recommend like copywriting things and calls to action and like this, the standard stuff. 384 00:31:42,827.8855 --> 00:31:47,317.8855 So junior marketers will get better faster, but they're going to plateau unless. 385 00:31:47,742.8855 --> 00:31:54,72.8855 They really keep do what we do, which is study like it's finals week and cram and try to learn everything you can and talk to experts every day. 386 00:31:54,72.8855 --> 00:31:56,922.8855 That's they may top out sooner if they're not studying hard. 387 00:31:57,422.8855 --> 00:32:38,37.9835 I think the subject domain expertise is super interesting because AI gives us an opportunity to learn faster, but the depth of knowledge is probably, a little more surface level, you talk about folks plateauing potentially, how do you think that the content is going to change because my fear is that it's all going to sound the same, because we're going to have junior level folks come in, do a lot of content, because, there's a need, there's a need to is that good or bad, what's your perspective, how are people going to, take all this information and establish subject matter expertise if they're just, starting out with this ChatGPT world? Cost of content that went down. 388 00:32:38,682.9845 --> 00:32:43,462.9845 That has gone down for years that went down because of Fiverr that it's now extremely low because of ChatGPT. 389 00:32:43,882.9845 --> 00:32:48,862.9845 The cost to create content and the ability to do content at scale these things have changed dramatically. 390 00:32:48,862.9845 --> 00:32:54,902.9835 And so there's going to be just tons more content, but the percentage of content that is differentiated. 391 00:32:55,377.9845 --> 00:33:02,137.9845 We'll dig, we'll go down to there's going to be fewer of us who are sticking our neck out, taking a stand, making strong opinion statements. 392 00:33:02,667.9845 --> 00:33:07,587.9855 There's sentences you can write that AI just can't write, I could give you a million examples. 393 00:33:07,717.9855 --> 00:33:10,367.9845 I was at a conference the other day and I said this just at random. 394 00:33:11,12.9855 --> 00:33:13,732.9855 Pastrami is the greatest of all deli meats. 395 00:33:13,912.9855 --> 00:33:15,122.9855 There is no competition. 396 00:33:15,372.9855 --> 00:33:16,632.9855 It is by far the best. 397 00:33:17,52.9855 --> 00:33:18,462.9855 It's an elevated corned beef. 398 00:33:18,472.9855 --> 00:33:20,2.9855 That's a good deli meat. 399 00:33:20,42.9855 --> 00:33:25,452.9845 I, maybe salami would be your second best, but I'm going pastrami number one, right? Of course. 400 00:33:25,842.9845 --> 00:33:26,212.9845 Okay. 401 00:33:26,322.9845 --> 00:33:28,722.9855 Everything I just said could never be written by an AI. 402 00:33:28,832.9855 --> 00:33:31,712.9855 And when you heard it, maybe your mouth watered, like it like triggered. 403 00:33:31,712.9855 --> 00:33:34,192.9855 It's like a, there's like an emotion, like you've got a perspective. 404 00:33:34,652.9855 --> 00:33:43,92.9855 You started thinking about, honey baked ham or something like what just happened in your brain is different than anything AI ever could have made happen in your brain. 405 00:33:43,182.9855 --> 00:33:46,422.9865 Because I expressed a strong opinion. 406 00:33:46,922.9865 --> 00:33:47,882.9865 Anyone can do that. 407 00:33:48,242.9865 --> 00:33:57,122.9865 Very few marketers do that in the future when there's so much low quality AI, average internet kind of stuff that content will sound even stronger. 408 00:33:57,677.9865 --> 00:34:01,457.9865 And the value of personal brands will go up even higher. 409 00:34:02,67.9865 --> 00:34:04,817.9865 The value of influencer collaborations will be even greater. 410 00:34:05,387.9865 --> 00:34:06,237.9865 Be a person. 411 00:34:06,737.9865 --> 00:34:09,697.9865 Draw a line in the sand, plant a flag, have a point of view. 412 00:34:10,287.9865 --> 00:34:10,847.9865 Try that. 413 00:34:11,657.9865 --> 00:34:13,7.9855 You will sound different. 414 00:34:13,217.9855 --> 00:34:19,477.9865 In the future, when there's 10 billion new URLs that are all generated from a machine, you'll sound, you'll, the difference will be even greater. 415 00:34:20,147.9865 --> 00:34:22,227.9865 so we've talked about content. 416 00:34:22,227.9865 --> 00:34:23,407.9865 We've talked about SEO. 417 00:34:23,627.9865 --> 00:34:48,652.9865 One thing that I'm trying to figure out myself is how do I get my content or information about my business into these GPTs? Do you have any thoughts on how a marketer could, potentially do that or what use cases that might be related that'll be relevant to them? I don't hear this question that much, but I think you just asked the most important question of 2025. 418 00:34:49,342.9865 --> 00:35:01,387.8865 Like I think that is actually, if it's not SEO, is it going to be called AIO? How do you train an the AI to mention your brand and your content? This is an awesome question. 419 00:35:01,967.9865 --> 00:35:02,967.9865 And very interesting. 420 00:35:03,287.9865 --> 00:35:07,327.9865 If you research it, you'll find that there's a lot of, it's public how chat GPT 3 was trained. 421 00:35:07,827.9865 --> 00:35:18,717.9865 It's like the common crawl, plus these databases called book1 and book2 and it's like this web2crawl dataset, which is like pages that have been linked to from reddit posts that had three or more upvotes. 422 00:35:18,717.9865 --> 00:35:21,137.9865 It's like a bunch of stuff that they used to train GPT 3. 423 00:35:21,817.9865 --> 00:35:25,617.9865 Some, not Wikipedia obviously, and Wikipedia was very heavily weighted in the dataset. 424 00:35:26,117.9865 --> 00:35:30,667.9865 AI just needs like huge amounts of information to even have grammar and no words. 425 00:35:30,667.9865 --> 00:35:33,367.9865 So not all of it is even relevant as like a knowledge source. 426 00:35:33,367.9865 --> 00:35:36,907.9855 It's just like examples of language, like all the subtitles from every movie. 427 00:35:36,997.9865 --> 00:35:38,237.9865 It's that's how you train an AI. 428 00:35:38,247.9865 --> 00:35:38,947.9855 Give it everything. 429 00:35:39,447.9855 --> 00:35:45,507.9855 The, my recommendation for getting AI to mention your brand is to have a very big digital footprint. 430 00:35:46,307.9855 --> 00:35:49,87.9855 It's to say yes to every podcast. 431 00:35:49,362.9855 --> 00:36:10,82.9845 to produce videos with transcripts, to do, to write guest posts for other brands to collaborate with editors to do good digital PR to appear on other people's websites in as many places as possible to write press releases, which appear everywhere to be in list posts, sounds weird, but if you see the sources of some AI responses, it's like a list post. 432 00:36:10,582.9845 --> 00:36:17,102.9835 So how they elaborate with trade publications, which are relevant topically, or associations. 433 00:36:17,747.9835 --> 00:36:44,194.6821667 Be a member of things if those memberships create content collaboration opportunities, but you should be doing hardcore content marketing and Serious digital PR if you expect to have any hope of AI saying that's the brand for that topic it's weirdly a lot of the same thing probably many of the same strategies we're doing now But with a slightly different angle It's building the strong foundation of content marketing first. 434 00:36:44,544.6821667 --> 00:37:10,259.6831667 And then how do you augment what you're doing with AI tools? What do you think that's going to mean for, search and how buyers think about, the content they're either they're seeing in, these AI tools or whether, the next improvements to Google looks like, how do you think that changes? This is also a very fun and totally unclear question, but no one knows yet, but I'll take a, I'll take a shot at it. 435 00:37:11,119.6831667 --> 00:37:19,639.6831667 Right now, SEOs evaluate digital PR opportunities by looking at domain authority and domain rating and links. 436 00:37:20,549.6831667 --> 00:37:22,479.6821667 I want to be mentioned on the website with links to it. 437 00:37:22,479.6831667 --> 00:37:24,349.6831667 I got a DRAD link today. 438 00:37:24,359.6831667 --> 00:37:25,499.6831667 Like they care about links. 439 00:37:26,249.6831667 --> 00:37:28,499.6831667 I don't think AI cares about links. 440 00:37:29,264.6831667 --> 00:37:32,274.6831667 I have no reason to believe it does, right? I've never seen any support for that. 441 00:37:32,534.6831667 --> 00:37:33,784.6831667 It just reads a lot of stuff. 442 00:37:34,344.6831667 --> 00:37:51,954.6831667 So more important than having a mention of your brand on a place that links back to you, a place with high domain authority, it's probably better to have a mention of your brand on any website, as long as that mention has the elevator pitch for what you do, because that is another instance on the internet. 443 00:37:52,134.6831667 --> 00:37:56,14.6841667 It's like citations for local SEO, where a name, address, and phone number mattered. 444 00:37:56,404.6841667 --> 00:37:57,384.6841667 You just want that. 445 00:37:57,404.6841667 --> 00:37:58,274.6841667 It's like my intro. 446 00:37:58,714.6841667 --> 00:38:00,524.6841667 Orbit Media is a web design and development company. 447 00:38:00,524.6841667 --> 00:38:01,474.6841667 We're located in Chicago. 448 00:38:01,474.6841667 --> 00:38:05,814.6841667 We focus on search and conversion optimized B2B lead gen websites, blah, blah, blah. 449 00:38:06,94.6831667 --> 00:38:13,194.6831667 Whatever that thing is, you want that thing, that little chunk of language that summarizes your brand to appear in lots of places. 450 00:38:13,334.6831667 --> 00:38:14,894.5841667 And I don't think that links well. 451 00:38:15,484.6841667 --> 00:38:19,794.6841667 Or domain authority or New York times versus the East Peoria news. 452 00:38:19,804.6841667 --> 00:38:22,224.6841667 I don't know that's going to matter as much in the future. 453 00:38:22,724.6841667 --> 00:38:26,54.6841667 That's almost pure speculation, if I'm being honest. 454 00:38:26,554.6841667 --> 00:38:27,754.6841667 Yeah, I don't know. 455 00:38:27,754.6841667 --> 00:38:33,514.6861667 That's why this is really interesting to do this, have these conversations because we're, we just don't know what's going to happen. 456 00:38:33,514.6861667 --> 00:38:35,964.6861667 And I'll be curious to see where we go. 457 00:38:36,464.6861667 --> 00:38:42,594.6861667 So Andy, at FutureCraft Marketing, we are all about giving practical tips and tricks to our listeners. 458 00:38:42,784.6861667 --> 00:38:44,254.6861667 So I've got a few questions for you. 459 00:38:44,284.6861667 --> 00:38:46,254.6861667 And I just want your quick hit answer. 460 00:38:46,254.6861667 --> 00:38:46,714.6861667 Okay. 461 00:38:47,44.6861667 --> 00:39:00,94.5861667 The first one, what's your best quick AI tip? Give it a web page and give it a persona and say, to what extent does this page meet or not meet my personas information needs? Wow. 462 00:39:00,94.5861667 --> 00:39:05,874.5861667 And you will find gaps, plug those gaps, and it's both, it's good for both search and conversion. 463 00:39:06,614.5861667 --> 00:39:11,234.5851667 Cheese and mousetrap, it will and it's cost nothing and you can do it before lunch. 464 00:39:11,794.5851667 --> 00:39:32,954.5851667 What's your best prompt, workflow, or GPT you like to use? That one I said earlier is what are the most important questions that people in my industry are afraid to answer? Or what are the most thought provoking topics that, it's like the the content strategy question that reveals thought provoking topics that are less frequently addressed in your category. 465 00:39:33,554.5851667 --> 00:39:34,584.5861667 Those are really fun. 466 00:39:35,194.5861667 --> 00:39:38,494.5851667 What counter narrative opinions, that's a great combination of words. 467 00:39:38,924.5841667 --> 00:39:45,614.4851667 What counter narrative opinions are the least likely to be discussed on the big blogs or by the famous thought leaders in my vertical? And that's it. 468 00:39:45,944.5851667 --> 00:39:50,404.5851667 Some of the answers will be worthless and a couple of them might be really fun to jump into. 469 00:39:51,74.5851667 --> 00:40:03,84.5831667 How do you keep up with all of this information coming out with AI? So what's your best tip for keeping up with all this information about AI and marketing right now? Here's a counter narrative tip. 470 00:40:03,194.5841667 --> 00:40:07,314.5841667 I recommend ignoring the new, the, all the information about tools. 471 00:40:07,814.5841667 --> 00:40:09,544.5841667 I pay no attention to tools at all. 472 00:40:10,124.5841667 --> 00:40:10,794.5841667 Couldn't care less. 473 00:40:10,814.5841667 --> 00:40:12,84.5841667 People are always emailing me. 474 00:40:12,394.5841667 --> 00:40:14,414.5841667 I was on an AI mastermind, which is a great way to learn. 475 00:40:14,564.5841667 --> 00:40:19,44.5841667 That's a, that's actually one of the best answers is just form small groups of people and share trade notes. 476 00:40:19,244.5841667 --> 00:40:25,454.5851667 On a regular basis, like what did you learn? What did I learn? What can I teach you? What can you teach me? But I was in this AI mastermind group where. 477 00:40:25,819.5851667 --> 00:40:33,119.5851667 They were just their format was to say what new tools and then I would leave this meeting with 11 new tabs and not knowing what to do. 478 00:40:33,739.5851667 --> 00:40:35,909.5841667 AI startups launched three a day. 479 00:40:36,69.5851667 --> 00:40:38,859.5841667 Like it's like several times a day, a new AI startup launches. 480 00:40:39,359.5841667 --> 00:40:48,989.5841667 Great time to ignore it, wait for it to settle down, just pick a language model and just use it and not, don't chase trends or tools and sign up for a bunch of new stuff. 481 00:40:49,559.5841667 --> 00:40:50,439.5841667 Stick with vanilla. 482 00:40:50,449.5841667 --> 00:40:53,889.5841667 It's quite powerful and you can do almost anything you want. 483 00:40:54,389.5841667 --> 00:40:57,189.5841667 I'm really curious what your answer to this question is going to be then. 484 00:40:57,429.5841667 --> 00:41:06,999.6831667 What technology should our listeners check out that they may not know about? Give you one if you want to make on page SEO recommendations, get a tool to show you what your page is missing. 485 00:41:07,624.6831667 --> 00:41:23,344.6826667 MarketMuse is a tool that I always, that I use every day, almost every day, right? It's like the client almost, it's like you find a striking dissonant keyphrase, I ranked number 11 for this phrase, how could I rank higher for that phrase, what's missing from the copy? Oh, this copy is missing these six topics, let's make it a better page. 486 00:41:23,714.6836667 --> 00:41:31,794.6836667 So I use MarketMuse for that, MarketMuse is friendly with AI, you can export that list of phrases and give it to AI with the page and ask AI to make those copy edits. 487 00:41:32,139.6836667 --> 00:41:36,369.6836667 I'm going to recommend copy edits and then you can choose which ones you like and just ignore the rest. 488 00:41:37,19.6836667 --> 00:41:41,69.6836667 So yeah, my, my Mark tech stack is pretty simple. 489 00:41:41,399.6836667 --> 00:41:43,979.6836667 There's, I've got a email service provider. 490 00:41:43,979.6836667 --> 00:41:52,539.6836667 I've got a CRM, I've got Moz, SEMrush, Ahrefs, I've got ChatGPT, I've got GA4 and Google Search Console, and I've got MarketMuse. 491 00:41:53,94.6836667 --> 00:41:54,704.6836667 I don't really need anything else. 492 00:41:54,764.6836667 --> 00:41:55,584.6836667 That sounds like a lot. 493 00:41:55,584.6836667 --> 00:41:57,774.6836667 Actually, I put a bunch of SEO tools in there. 494 00:41:58,334.6836667 --> 00:42:00,14.6836667 But it's, that's totally sufficient. 495 00:42:00,674.6836667 --> 00:42:09,534.6826667 It's funny, ChatGPT and I often talk about our AI marketing tech stack because we feel like if we didn't monitor it, that we'd grow exponentially every day. 496 00:42:10,114.6826667 --> 00:42:12,174.6826667 Thank you so much, Andy, for joining us today. 497 00:42:12,174.7826667 --> 00:42:15,854.7826667 I definitely learned a lot and some is really interesting conversation. 498 00:42:16,354.7826667 --> 00:42:17,54.7826667 Super fun. 499 00:42:17,224.7826667 --> 00:42:19,184.7826667 And ChatGPT, thanks for your input on that sales trick. 500 00:42:19,184.7826667 --> 00:42:22,754.7826667 I'd like the idea of, using that to train and onboard a new reps. 501 00:42:23,254.7826667 --> 00:42:23,884.7826667 Super smart. 502 00:42:23,924.7826667 --> 00:42:24,724.7821667 That'll become standard. 503 00:42:24,724.7821667 --> 00:42:25,244.7826667 I think someday. 504 00:42:25,744.7826667 --> 00:42:31,674.7806667 I think it's going to be interesting to see how sales enablement tools like the high spots and seismic change. 505 00:42:32,279.7806667 --> 00:42:43,499.7796667 It's got to be more interactive, right? they can service the content the prospects are looking at and identify, but it's like that next step of how do you inform your salespeople to get more efficient, faster, be interesting. 506 00:42:43,939.7806667 --> 00:42:46,189.7796667 It'll be a video avatar of your prospect. 507 00:42:46,804.7806667 --> 00:42:48,584.7806667 That you'll just start talking to it. 508 00:42:48,944.7806667 --> 00:42:49,854.7806667 It's going to get weird. 509 00:42:50,4.7806667 --> 00:42:52,674.7806667 What do you think? 12 months? Not long. 510 00:42:53,24.7806667 --> 00:42:53,654.7806667 Not long. 511 00:42:53,704.7806667 --> 00:42:56,964.7816667 I would give it end of the year, end of the year. 512 00:42:57,194.7816667 --> 00:42:58,594.7816667 ChatGPT's on record. 513 00:42:58,604.7816667 --> 00:43:06,124.7816667 Before the end of the year, the sales training tools will have a video avatar that is trained on your value prop and your target audience's needs. 514 00:43:06,274.7816667 --> 00:43:08,344.7816667 I think you're very likely right in that prediction. 515 00:43:08,914.7816667 --> 00:43:14,544.7806667 I'm certainly leaving with a ton of good takeaways here and also hungry for a pastrami sandwich. 516 00:43:14,544.8806667 --> 00:43:15,844.8816667 Thank you so much, Andy. 517 00:43:15,874.8806667 --> 00:43:18,304.8806667 Really appreciate the time today and enjoy the conversation. 518 00:43:19,84.8806667 --> 00:43:19,454.8796667 Thank you. 519 00:43:19,454.8806667 --> 00:43:19,824.8796667 This was fun. 520 00:43:19,824.8796667 --> 00:43:25,264.8786667 All Erin, what'd you think? So smart, really cutting edge stuff there. 521 00:43:25,274.8786667 --> 00:43:32,794.8786667 I think it's hard to get ahead in the SEO world and is so competitive and Andy's really at the top of his game. 522 00:43:32,804.8786667 --> 00:43:37,344.8786667 But, I really think a lot of it is due to the quality and effort that they put in there. 523 00:43:37,354.8786667 --> 00:43:39,832.8776667 So Ken, what was your takeaway? Yeah. 524 00:43:39,832.8776667 --> 00:43:50,132.8776667 The thing that I found throughout the conversation with him was that GPTs can really be used to address gaps in your work. 525 00:43:50,467.8776667 --> 00:43:57,537.8776667 In your thinking, in your content strategy and I don't think we've talked much about that. 526 00:43:57,577.8776667 --> 00:44:08,447.8776667 And so I'm going to be leaving here today about how I can incorporate that into my content creation, probably persona work, content strategy, and messaging. 527 00:44:09,167.8776667 --> 00:44:28,47.8776667 about Erin? I really enjoyed the conversation when you asked him about getting content into GPTs what is that going to look like? Obviously, we're still in the hypothetical, age, but I do think there's a point to be made where people are going to go there to different GPTs to learn about, solutions. 528 00:44:28,67.8776667 --> 00:44:41,777.8766667 So whether it's comparing or understanding features, I do think what he said about creating that foundational marketing layer and getting your stuff everywhere and having a really authentic voice was something that resonated with me. 529 00:44:42,465.8776667 --> 00:44:46,715.8776667 he really is on the cusp of all of this work. 530 00:44:46,715.8776667 --> 00:44:53,975.8771667 he's really put a lot of thought into how AI can be leveraged, but also where maybe it doesn't make sense right now. 531 00:44:53,975.8771667 --> 00:44:59,565.8766667 So I really appreciated his perspective really challenged my thinking in some ways, and I'm going to try some stuff out. 532 00:45:00,105.8776667 --> 00:45:03,205.8776667 But again, thank you, Andy, for joining us today. 533 00:45:03,435.8776667 --> 00:45:05,815.8776667 We really saw a lot of value in your session. 534 00:45:06,5.8776667 --> 00:45:08,545.8776667 Erin, to wrap us up, we're gonna do a tech review. 535 00:45:09,35.8776667 --> 00:45:16,807.8766667 What tech tool are we reviewing today? I took a look at Gamma, which is a solution that helps you create presentations. 536 00:45:17,307.8766667 --> 00:45:17,997.8776667 Okay, cool. 537 00:45:18,197.8776667 --> 00:45:21,197.8786667 That sounds like something I could use a ton. 538 00:45:21,217.8786667 --> 00:45:22,157.8776667 I've heard it before. 539 00:45:22,157.8786667 --> 00:45:23,947.8786667 I used it a while ago. 540 00:45:23,997.8786667 --> 00:45:28,644.8776667 Erin, how does it stack up for you? I think there's still some opportunity for improvement. 541 00:45:28,994.8776667 --> 00:45:36,134.8786667 There's a lot of potential and that you can basically give it some text and it translates those into slides and gives you the imagery. 542 00:45:36,409.8786667 --> 00:45:41,919.8786667 Gives you the flow, prescribes what that presentation could look like. 543 00:45:41,919.8786667 --> 00:45:43,229.8786667 And they have a bunch of different formats. 544 00:45:43,239.8786667 --> 00:45:44,679.8786667 So I think that is very cool. 545 00:45:45,359.8786667 --> 00:45:49,199.8786667 I think where it's lacking for me is just that, that next level. 546 00:45:49,199.8786667 --> 00:45:59,709.8786667 I think if you're doing a very base level presentation where you don't have a ton of depth of content that you need, or you don't need, different data points where you're putting in graphs and things of that nature. 547 00:45:59,919.8786667 --> 00:46:00,439.8786667 It's good. 548 00:46:00,599.8786667 --> 00:46:03,59.8786667 It's, it's pretty handy and it can be a really good starting point. 549 00:46:03,349.8786667 --> 00:46:09,69.8776667 The other downside that I see is there isn't an opportunity to add your own brand or your own templates. 550 00:46:09,69.9776667 --> 00:46:12,669.8806667 So you are constrained by what they have in there. 551 00:46:13,69.8786667 --> 00:46:16,93.1796667 And that can be a challenge if you're looking for something a bit more custom. 552 00:46:16,516.1796667 --> 00:46:23,741.1796667 Yeah, I remember when I was using it, I wanted to do Three icons with a word under each of them. 553 00:46:24,21.1796667 --> 00:46:29,851.1796667 And I kept saying create a slide with three icons and spaces for words under each of them, and it kept giving me four. 554 00:46:29,901.1796667 --> 00:46:37,931.1796667 So I just think some of the more advanced or intermediate things that Gamma has, it doesn't stack up, but you're right. 555 00:46:37,941.1806667 --> 00:46:39,951.1796667 It probably has some great use cases. 556 00:46:40,1.1796667 --> 00:46:44,901.1796667 Okay, on the scale of one to ten, where do you rank it? I'm going to give it a four today. 557 00:46:45,31.1796667 --> 00:46:52,466.1796667 That being said, I'm still going to keep an eye on it and keep trying it, because I think it's got a ton of potential and We're always giving presentations. 558 00:46:52,496.1796667 --> 00:46:55,666.1796667 So I think that the use case is awesome. 559 00:46:55,666.1796667 --> 00:46:57,546.1796667 And I think it's a really hard problem to solve for. 560 00:46:57,546.1796667 --> 00:46:59,596.1796667 So if they can crack it, it'd be really interesting. 561 00:46:59,844.1796667 --> 00:47:00,884.1796667 Yeah, I agree with you. 562 00:47:01,64.1796667 --> 00:47:07,874.1796667 Probably the reason why this is probably one of the lower scores that we've given is this is a really hard topic, right? And you're right. 563 00:47:07,904.1796667 --> 00:47:13,384.1791667 If someone can figure out how to make power points better, you're gonna have much business like you won't know what to do with. 564 00:47:13,394.1781667 --> 00:47:17,389.0791667 So I'm excited for what they do moving forward. 565 00:47:18,69.1791667 --> 00:47:20,169.1791667 With that, I think we are done for the day. 566 00:47:20,169.1791667 --> 00:47:26,939.1791667 We had a great interview with Andy and I'm really excited to go try some of the stuff that he mentioned. 567 00:47:27,209.1791667 --> 00:47:30,969.1791667 But thank you all for listening and joining us and we'll talk to you soon. 568 00:47:31,469.1791667 --> 00:47:35,979.1791667 And until next time, let's keep crafting the future of marketing together.