May 30, 2025 • 40 mins
Welcome back to another powerful episode of Game Changers – Athlete Edition! This week, co-hosts Kortney Harmon and Julie Jones sit down with JP Nerbun—bestselling author, leadership coach, founder of TOC Culture Consulting, and renowned expert in sports culture and leadership.
JP dives into the nuances of building winning team cultures, offering practical wisdom for athletes, coaches, and parents. He explains why cultivating culture isn’t about tearing everything down and starting over—instead, it’s more like tending a garden: nurturing what’s good, pulling out the weeds, and helping everyone thrive.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
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The athlete’s vital role in shaping and sustaining positive team culture.
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How to lead by example, especially when things get tough.
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The power of reframing setbacks and fostering an outward, giving mindset.
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Concrete strategies for managing negativity within teams, including the toxic effects of unchecked complaining.
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JP’s top three culture-building mistakes—and how to avoid them.
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Key traditions and everyday actions that drive lasting transformation, plus why “little” efforts (like post-practice tea and chats) can create big shifts.
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The value of identifying your personal non-negotiables and clarifying what it takes to be successful as an athlete or teammate.
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Why embracing every individual, from star players to janitors and groundskeepers, shapes team identity and unity.
JP also shares insights from his books, Calling Up: Discovering Your Journey to Transformational Leadership and The Culture System, making this episode a must-listen for anyone eager to elevate their team’s environment, whether you’re an athlete, coach, or sports parent.
Stay tuned for next episode: JP returns to discuss the parent’s impact on team culture, sharing actionable advice for turning parents into valuable allies.
Connect with Us If you found today’s episode helpful, share it with your team, your coach, or anyone who could use a boost of inspiration. Don’t forget to subscribe for more mindset strategies, leadership lessons, and success stories from game changers around the world.
Resources Mentioned:
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JP Nerbun’s books: The Culture System https://a.co/d/5WZFmR9
- JP Nerbun’s books: The Sport Parents Solution. https://www.amazon.com/Sports-Parent-Solution-Strategies-Transforming/dp/B0CT6GQHND
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The Coaching Culture Podcast https://open.spotify.com/show/336Hs8udk8s0yXuK3BzSOq?si=4a528e075de54ecf DISCLAIMER: This content is for educational and informational purposes only and does not constitute professional coaching or mental health advice. Do not disregard, avoid, or delay obtaining advice from qualified professionals because of something you may have heard in an episode of Game Changers: Athlete Edition. You should not rely on this information as a substitute for professional coaching, mental performance, or medical advice. Please consult with qualified professionals for proper evaluation and guidance specific to your situation. Guests who speak on this podcast express their own opinions, experiences, and conclusions. Neither the Game Changers: Athlete Edition hosts nor any company providing support endorses or opposes any particular training, coaching, or treatment methods discussed in the episodes. They are not responsible for any actions or inactions of listeners based on the information presented. The strategies, tips, and information shared in this podcast are based on the hosts' experiences and professional expertise, but results may vary. The use of any informati
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Culture is not like building a house. You don't need a level the ground
to build this thing up. Culture is more like, it's like you're working in a
garden. It's like, well, what's good here? There's actually some great stuff here. You just,
you gotta, you gotta tend to that, cultivate that and then pull out some of
the weeds there. But, you know, so it's, it's, it's not this leveling. It's a
lot more organic than people tend to think.
(00:24):
Welcome to Game Changers Athlete Edition. I'm Kortney Harmon,
a former Division 1 softball pitcher turned high performance business
coach who knows what it takes to translate athletic mindset into
real world success. And I'm Julie Jones, a Hall of Famer and former
Division 1 head coach with more than 20 years of experience turned mental performance
coach. Together we bridge the gap between elite athletics and
(00:47):
lifelong achievement, helping you unlock your full potential
on and off the field. This podcast is your go to source
for inspiration, motivation, amazing guests and
actionable insights to help you elevate your game.
Welcome back to another episode of Game Changers Athlete Edition.
And today Julie and I are thrilled to welcome a true game
(01:11):
changer in the sports leadership team culture arena.
JP Nurbin is not only a best selling author,
a leadership coach, a founder of TOC Culture
Consulting, a leading global sports consulting and
leadership business coach and what I've heard.
This is my first conversation with jp, but his impressive work has spanned
(01:33):
across sports, education, healthcare, business,
guiding leaders at prestigious institutions like Stanford,
Harvard, University of Texas, USGA,
PwC and Chick Fil A. That was a new one I learned today.
JP has also authored two groundbreaking books called
(01:53):
Calling Up Discovery, your Journey to Transform Transformational
Leadership and the Culture System, A Proven Process in Creating
Extraordinary Team Cultures.
JP has been highly recommended by Julie
for her experience and with coaching and also
joining a class that she's coaching. So I'm super excited today that we're going to
(02:15):
be deep diving into JP's expertise on building winning
team cultures, Transformational leadership, how students can
really take culture into their own hands to help lead their
teams and parents can best support their young athletes going
in this way. So jp, thank you so much for
taking the time out of your busy day to chat with Julie and I.
(02:38):
I'm excited to be here. This is going to be a fun one and I've
enjoyed the last time I got to speak with Julie in her class it was.
Yeah, that was actually gave me a lot of hope being with those students. So
I'm Excited for today's conversation as well. Right, Kortney, you
talk about all the outstanding institutions we have to add in the University of
Akron because we're using. There we go. Right?
(03:00):
We are. We're using his book in my Positive Team Culture class, which is what
got us connected. However, I had been a fan and follower
of his podcast, which has been. I wish I would have had more
access to that when I was coaching. I also do want to add before we
get started, JP Also wrote the Support Parent Solution, Proven
strategies for transforming parents from obstacles
(03:22):
into allies. And we'll be talking a little bit about that in our next episode.
But, jp, I'm excited to be here. I told you before we
went, before we started to record, that you had a great impact on our students
at Akron. And from that experience, I thought this
would be a great time to share some of your expertise in culture
building, but in a little different lens. Your book,
(03:44):
the Culture System, is written for coaches or leaders, and it's
a system that leaders can take and implement
and help build a better, better performing culture.
The other side of that is the people that we're building culture with
instead of for. Right. So I thought it would be
(04:05):
awesome to discuss some of the things that you have in
that system, but from the lens of an athlete, how can
athletes help better their
culture? How can athletes build culture? How can athletes
manage or, you know, perpetuate
outstanding cultures and manage cultures that are a little bit
(04:27):
maybe dysfunctional? So those are a lot of questions, but let's just start wherever
you want to with what is the athlete's role in
team culture? Yeah, I mean, I guess there's a lot of things
you could say that they could do, but it all would start from this one
place, which I'll give you. The first thing I'll give you is just that athletes
is the same I would give to a coach, which is your
(04:49):
own example how you show up in that environment.
And so often people,
whether that be a head coach or a captain
or a star player, whatever it be, people,
when things you know are positive, they're upbeat. They
really embody the things that they value until it gets
(05:13):
really hard, until others around them turn negative, Right?
And oftentimes, you know, people might say, well, they hold on, they
hold on, and they become the last line of fence. But eventually they break down.
And it's just there is an aspect of leadership,
whether you're the head coach or a player within a team,
that could use, you know, this resilience
(05:35):
to stay true to your values, regardless of how other people,
you're losing streak or whatever is going on in your environment.
So there's, there's many things to do with, even in just
that process itself, which is to know what do you value, to
know who you want to be, who do you want are you when
you're at your best? And then it's about going and being that
(05:59):
every day. That's the hard
part. The one quote from your book, it's not an exact
quote, but you were talking, our coach was talking, it might have been
the soccer coach and maybe you can talk a little about that culture, but they
were saying when is it hardest to stick to your values or when
is it hardest to maintain your culture? And this was the
(06:21):
question in our class all semester long is everything's
great. And as John Madden says, you know, winning is
a great deodorant. It covers up all the stinky stuff. I don't know
if that's exactly what he said, but very close. But how
do you, how do you stick to these things
when things aren't going the way you
(06:43):
want? Because you can have, as you say, you can have things placard everywhere, but
if we don't live them, they don't exist.
Well, first off, for whatever is placard, that it's truly authentic to you,
I think a lot of times leaders take, you know, oh, I
like Kobe Bryant, Mamba mentality. That's, that's gonna, that's what I'm about.
No, that's, that was Kobe, that wasn't you.
(07:08):
So you have to really know whatever is placard, whatever you put on your
sheet, your T shirt, whatever you put on your shoes, whatever you put on your,
you know, these little artifacts that we like to have, these little videos that we
like to listen to or that do we have these mantras,
these beliefs, these values that are truly ours.
That's the first really important piece in that.
(07:30):
Then there comes down to
making sure that we have certain
practices within our lives, wellness,
that we take care of ourselves so that we can respond well to
stress and adversity. So I mean, these are the obvious
things but like it's, you know, nutrition and sleeping, right?
(07:53):
And you know, those types of things that
are really important. Phone usage, you know, just, just
being aware of how that affects you. So just your own mental,
emotional well being is really important that you take care of that. Because
if you don't take care of yourself, then you really. The window of tolerance
for stress and adversity becomes much smaller. So that's a big
(08:16):
piece of it. And then on top of that, it can be really
helpful to have what I would say mindfulness practices
that help you to be reflective. So like
mindfulness meditation and journaling as well
as Dr. Michael Gervais would
say, conversations with people of wisdom, mentors or
(08:38):
coaches that hold up a mirror that help you to be
self reflective of. Ooh, I'm a little bit off track here and
help pull me back into track. Reading
books on leadership, performance
development, mental strength, mental resilience, just in
listening to good people as well too. Like those are a plethora of
(09:01):
ideas. But I think you need to be marinating in
that type of stuff. I think it helps you to stay
true. And also it's not like you have this moment of like
this day or this week or this single moment that you get clarity on who
you are and who you are as your best. It's a kind of these things
are a process. They're constantly, constantly having happening. You're
(09:23):
constantly understanding, okay, who am I? What do I value? What's most important to me
as you go through this experience of, you know, learning
and mindfulness and working on yourself,
it's interesting. Oh, go ahead, Kortney, I'll let you go. Sorry, I'm
not as strong with my voice right now.
J.P. you just mentioned a lot of wonderful things as an
(09:44):
individual to do outside of their team to
that will influence right now
firsthand. This year I've seen a lot of teams
struggle and I'm going to look at this
like I interview business leaders on my other podcast and
the percentage of athletes that are business leaders that, you know that
(10:06):
69 to 95% that hold leadership roles
in these businesses, I almost want to take that back down to the education
level or the, the team level. How do they influence
the culture of the whole team? Or a bad coach or you
know, they're taking that individually. But that one person can
really see steer the team in a different direction. But how do they.
(10:29):
You know, oftentimes we get in those situations with maybe a bad
coach or a really toxic team. But
in the idea of how do I take that to change the
trajectory, almost like managing up for our businesses.
Yeah. I think there
is two really big things in this. A lot of
(10:53):
times we get overwhelmed by the current state of the culture.
It feels toxic, it feels negative, it's low
performing. And so where we instantly go to
and it's a great place to go to is the behaviors. You got to lead
by example, like are you the hardest working person on your team? Are you the
most positive person on your team. Right. Like, just being that person
(11:15):
that's positive, that's hardworking, that has a great attitude, that's grateful
to be out there, no matter the circumstances.
Like, that itself is really important.
So lead by example, no matter the
circumstances. Like, that's real tough,
but it's really important to do. However, outside of
(11:37):
leading by example, I would say
it would be around the stories, the
mindsets, the beliefs that people have. So
how can you help others to reframe? How can you
help others to shift their mindset? Because our thinking drives our behaviors,
and our behaviors drive our results. And so as
(12:00):
a leader, when you hear other people go negative,
how do you help them go positive? How can you reframe that? Right. You have
a big loss, and it's frustrating. I was working with an athlete
the other day, and I loved. I said, how'd you feel about your performance?
And the coaches would have been a bit down on his performance. And other
people said he didn't perform. He's like the star on the team. And he said,
(12:21):
yeah, but I was, I know I didn't get the results I wanted, but I
was so close on these, these couple goals, and it just had gone a little
bit more to the left or right here. I, I, we want to be talking
about a negative performance. We'd be talking about how amazing I played. Like,
he just knew. Like, it's, he had everything in perspective. His way of framing that
was great. Well, what happens the next game? He goes out and scores two
(12:41):
goals. Right. Like, has this amazing game. Right. So,
but how could he do that for other people? Right. So he has a great
mindset. He's a good lead by example. But how can he help his
teammate who's really down on himself, remind him of that. Or the team
in the huddle, remind them of that. Because at the end of the day,
you as a leader, whether the head coach or you're a captain
(13:02):
or star player or anybody out there, you can help people
frame the narrative. Yeah, I love that
you said in the book, you talked about the comedian
and the comedian who changed his performance
by changing his perspective. Will you tell us a little bit about that
(13:23):
story and why that's so important for athletes to
understand that mindset? Yeah. So the
comedian, Michael Jr. Who's very successful
comedian, he had a really
big day. He was appearing on the Leno show, I think, like,
15, 20 years ago. And up until this point,
(13:46):
every time he stepped on stage, it was like, how can I get people to
laugh? How can I get people laugh. So everything was about getting people
to laugh. And then one day he had this experience
after the Leno show, I believe, and he
saw this homeless person outside when he was walking out,
(14:09):
and he thought about giving, like, how could I give people the
opportunity to laugh? And so he started actually doing a lot of
comedy shows in areas where
people were coming from really tough situations, whether it be
prisons, homeless shelters, or
homes with orphans. Right. Orphanages.
(14:33):
So he just changed his mindset now. It
changed what he did in the sense of where he obviously did comedy, still does
comedy, and big, big, big arenas and big shows, but
everything. What really changed for him was, like, his mindset. He went from how do
I get? To how do I give? And that came from a place of
abundance, a place of gratitude. And. And so
(14:55):
I tell that story because it really talks about how the
importance of mindset within a leader. And so I think, you
know, oftentimes we fall into traps of having an
entitled mindset. Well, they're lucky to have me, or I should get this because I'm
great, or that instead of graduating, I'm grateful. I'm lucky to be here. I'm fortunate.
I get to do this. I get to practice, I get to play. I get
(15:17):
to be a part of this team, right? So it could be shifting from that.
It can be shifting from an inward to an outward mindset, as the Arbinger Institute
talks about, which is, hey, I see people as obstacles, vehicles,
or irrelevant to my success. To, hey, I see people
as people like, they're like, I see the person, and
they're just as important as me. So there's a lot of different mindsets you can
(15:39):
tap into, but it ties into this thing, what we were just talking about there,
which is just how much our thinking, our mindsets drive our behaviors.
And so a lot of times people go, what do great leaders do? Rather than
think about what do great leaders do? Think about what do great leaders. How do
they think? Right. How do they think about things? How do they see other people?
(16:00):
It's awesome that you just brought up the outward mindset. I actually have two
slides that I was going to talk to you about from the book that I
use in some of my team sessions about, you know, current results and
then behaviors. Protecting and advancing oneself
leads to an inner, inward mindset. And then, you
know, an outward mindset is the advancement, the collective result, looking
(16:22):
at what we can do for others, either blaming or
taking accountability, all those different things. But I thought that. I thought that story
was so important when we think about what am I trying to get compared to
what am I trying to give? And that's all that makes a huge difference
in culture. I listened to. You probably have listened to it as well,
the School of Greatness with Lewis Howells. And I remember one time he was talking
(16:45):
about his fear of public speaking, and
his speech coach, his public speaking coach said,
when you walk out there, think about how you're going to help them
instead of yourself,
get into them. I always tell our teams that I work with, get
out of your head and into somebody else. And I think that is such a
(17:08):
big lesson for athletes because the culture doesn't. The outward
culture doesn't really tell them that. Do you agree that that's a
challenge? Yeah, I just actually, before we. We
hopped on this call to record this podcast, I was coaching an athlete
who was just coming out of an injury, was not likely to be in the
starting lineup this coming weekend, and was
(17:31):
very aware, very to her credit,
very aware, that she could easily fall into a selfish
mindset. And so I asked her, I said, well, what
would be the worst thing for you to be selfish on the sidelines
if you weren't playing on Sunday and they're in a big
final national Championship cup game? And she said, that would. I. That
(17:53):
would be more excluded and I wouldn't be helping the team
to win. That would be actually the worst thing. And so she was able to
come to this awareness of, like, how that. That doesn't
serve her. It doesn't serve the team right and that in that
setting. So she has to be able to make a shift. And it's a hard
shift because she's always been on the field. She's always. She's one of the better
(18:14):
players in the country. She's, you know, and so this is a
new experience for her, have to sit on the sidelines. But it was for
her, it's about how she. Which this conclusion she came to
was, okay, the best thing that I can do is just
focus on being the best me. What does that look like? If I'm
playing and training, that's going to help push my teammates.
(18:37):
And then whether I'm playing or not, what's the best me?
What other parts of my identity, my personality
bring value outside of just kicking this ball
and scoring goals. So this individual
had to identify that. And so I think when it comes to this
selfless mindset, moving into that outward mindset,
(18:59):
it's trying to understand how we provide value,
how we help others in the world outside of just
scoring Our performance, just like Michael
Jr. Okay. It wasn't just about, you know, going
out there and getting people to laugh. It's like, what does it actually mean
(19:19):
to give them the opportunity to laugh? What does it actually do for them?
How does it actually help them to shift? It's not just entertainment on a Friday
night. It actually was really significant and meaningful to these
orphans, to these homeless people. Oh, people care about me,
right? Like, you're doing much more than just comedy.
Absolutely. One other thing you mentioned
(19:44):
a few minutes ago. You're talking about stories. How can
we change the story? We know that we are very
good storytellers in our own head, and we make things
a little bigger than they normally are at times. I'm sure Kortney
had lots of stories about me when. When she was on
the team, and they weren't all good. I am certain of
(20:07):
that. But here we are today, see, because the stories weren't all
true. But one another thing you talk about in the book, and this is something
that. That there's tons of research on, but you talk about
complaining and how complaining affects
things. You've probably read John Gordon's book
with Mike Smith about. It starts in the locker room for. You went
(20:29):
in the locker room first, and he. And you know, they had a no complaining
rule on the Atlanta Falcons when Mike Smith was the coach. Talk a little bit
about complaining, what it does to
teams. And. And that's maybe one way athletes
can help adjust as well as to. You talk about, you know,
moving things from negative to positive. But I don't know if people
(20:51):
really think of complaining as negative all the time
or doesn't make them feel negative. Yeah, it's. It's. It's an
interesting thing from a leadership perspective. We want people to
be honest. We want people to share their frustrations.
And when does that become unhealthy? Right.
When does it become complaining? Right. And complaining
(21:13):
is sharing a frustration,
a belief around ways that things aren't the way they should be.
And. But being unwilling or not really
necessarily taking any steps to. To change that.
And so I think as a leader, you want to provide.
A lot of times within teams that I work with, they do like leadership groups,
(21:37):
whether it's a selected group of leadership captains or,
you know, leaders that run groups where they look after four or five people oftentimes.
And one of the things that they're responsible for is checking in with them and
what's going on for them and is there any frustrations or challenges
and that could seem like that leaders
encouraging them to Complain? No, it's hey, there's a frustration, there's a
(21:59):
challenge, there's an issue. Bring it to, let's air it
so that I can help you solve for that how we can all work together
to solve this issue, this challenge that's facing, facing the team
or it's facing this individual or they don't feel like they're getting a fair chance
or they don't feel like they're getting enough feedback or you know, whatever it
be. And so the idea is yeah, we
(22:21):
want honesty and we want communication in our environment
so we can work towards solutions. But it becomes complaining when we're not
really taking any action and we're just venting and our frustrations
and that creates negative stories within the groups and
that understory that under that, that story within
the, within the group that, that really start to shift a culture very
(22:44):
quickly because it's, it's very contagious.
I want to expound on that a little bit more obviously.
We talked about your coaching culture podcast which we will link in our show notes.
I ideally addressing the team culture but like you just mentioned one
thing that could be a common culture building mistake.
(23:06):
I want to know what the most common or like the three
top culture building mistakes you see teams or
athletes make. Give me three.
Yeah, I think it that that's probably
like really close to the top from players which is to hear
people out and letting them vent.
(23:27):
And hey I just. Some people just need a vent and then
that's it. Right. Like there's validating
what people feel but then you have to help them move beyond that. Okay, so
what, so what can we do about it? What options do we have? What choices
do we have here? That would be a really, really big one
(23:48):
I think from a player's perspective, I think from another thing from a player's
perspective would be sitting back and just
expecting the coach to really drive the culture.
And I mean I think at the end of the day
now more than ever the research would show with this generation of
athletes, Gen Z that Gen Z cares
(24:11):
more about peer recognition than even coach recognition than maybe
like that that dynamic shifted and that's. And so
you as a teammate, you can organize things,
you can honestly those are the best things. Got a college team
here in Ireland where I live, high level national championship team.
They had a tradition on every Wednesday after practice, tea and chats,
(24:35):
everybody, everybody is expected to come over and have tea
and biscuits. And biscuits are like cookies over here in Ireland,
but just different name for it but. And they have tea and they just
sit around and chat for 30, 45 minutes after practice. And this is a way
to connect. Right. It's just a simple tradition. Right. So
little simple traditions. Don't ever underestimate how
(24:58):
just bringing everybody together within your team
can move the culture forward. We all want to go on the big
team, paintball and thing or this, all that stuff. Like no, just like
simple little traditions, inviting everybody for coffee where everyone's invited
or whatever it be within your team. Like that goes a
(25:19):
long, long way. I would say
that would be kind of the second one is that we just underestimate the
impact of those types of things as well as then underestimate the
impacts of little, little
behaviors and encouraging those behaviors. Like getting
everybody to practice on time to. If you're on a basketball team or football
(25:41):
team, hey, let's all do a little bit of extra work here to start off
with. Like we're here early. Let's, let's partner up and let's do these
like just bringing intentionality. Like it could be that it's just
starting little behavioral traditions within your sport as
well. I think helps to drive performance. So
if you're going to the gym on a Saturday and it's an off day for
(26:01):
a recovery session or you know, for those types of things,
great. Are you inviting other people with you to. Are you going in for
extra skill work or you're showing up early and you working intentionally?
Right. It's great. Lead by example, but make sure you invite other people because a
lot of times people don't actually know that they're. They're welcome.
(26:22):
In those three, you started to talk about behaviors.
And one of the things in the book that you talk about for leaders
that is necessary when you're building culture is establishing your
non negotiables. Can you talk about that from an athlete's
perspective and how that might be important to their
(26:42):
ability to help maintain culture and to
improve their performance? Yeah. I think
at the end of the day, your non negotiables answer the question what do I
need to be successful? What do
I need to be successful? I think it's an important question to
reflect on from an athlete perspective, like
(27:05):
what do I need for my coaches? But even just flip that around and ask
your coaches like, hey coach, what do you need from me
and what do you need from all of us for you to be
as successful and as effective as a leader as possible. Right.
Just ask your start from a place of asking your coach that that might be
a really powerful thing. That really shows that you care, that
(27:27):
you're interested in helping support them. So if you have a.
That's a really, really great question to ask. I've had a lot of, I do
a lot of coaching in the corporate space as well too. And people are having
to lead up the chain of command and they might experience some frustrations with their
boss. Same question. I say, hey, go to your boss and say, hey, what do
you need from me to help you be successful in your role?
(27:47):
And so asking that hearing three, four or five things that
your coach says would be really grateful. Good to hear. And then
turning back around and being able to tell the team, maybe your coach and
like, hey, like, these are the things that we really need if I'm going to
be successful. If you're going to be successful, like, we all need to be
making sure that we're on time, we're getting proper
(28:10):
recovery and that we're spending time to get off the field of the court or
whatever it be. I just think at the end of the day you're trying to
figure out what do I need? And so it's important to know those things as
well too. Because as a lot of times athletes go through the recruitment
process or selecting a team or selecting a coach, selecting an environment
is like, are you choosing the environment for you to be successful? Are
(28:31):
you or are you just picking the one with the coolest locker rooms or the
biggest nil deal or whatever it be? Like, are the most
popular? Like, are you actually going to be successful there? Is that type of coaching
going to help you be successful? Is that environment going to help you to be
successful? So I think that would be something to just even select the team you
play on. You just mentioned
(28:51):
some other things to think about besides obviously coaches and
players, who else shapes team culture and how do we include them
more obviously? Parents are a big part, you know, peers are a big part.
But talk to me like, how do we get all of them on board
and not just think about the surface level things or the most
people that are front and center on this journey? Yeah,
(29:15):
I think it's really interesting that you just bring in the idea of like, well,
other people are part of this because other people are, you know,
I actually genuinely think that how a team treats and when
I say this like that, for lack of a better term, like the low,
lowest person, like the equipment manager
to, you know, the janitor. Like, I think how the leader
(29:37):
treats those people says so
much about the culture. And I think it's the same within how A leader
interacts with parents right at the end of the day. I do a lot of
work with coaches. Parents have become a big part of it. Of the
sporting culture. But it seems like
coaches tend to build walls, again, with
(29:59):
trying to keep parents out rather than to engage them. And so I. I mean,
I think it's about. We got to bring. We recognize that
athletes need the support of, you know, obviously their
community. They need to support some of their coaches, and they need, you know,
they need support from their parents as well. The parents are the
biggest influence in their lives. So the more we can get those all
(30:21):
working together, the better. And I think that.
So I'm a huge advocate for coaches to engage the parents, bring them in there.
I also think that players have a bit of a responsibility in that,
too. They can be really helpful in
communicating what they need from their parents to be successful. I think
that. And one of those is to not
(30:44):
harass our coach or whatever it be. You know, it be something like that. But
just really like, hey, what do I need from you to. For my parents to
be successful? My role and communicating to that and get on the same page of
that would be. Would be a real positive, for sure.
I have an example of that that I just witnessed this
weekend. So one of my former players and one of
(31:06):
Kortney's former coaches as well, is the head coach at Cleveland State
University in softball. The assistant coach played for me,
too. But at Akron, they just cut the program. So this was
their last weekend they played in a conference tournament. I was there for the very
last Cleveland State softball game. And when I went out onto the
field afterwards, after they did all their crying and hugging and
(31:28):
all the things that you would do after your program is being cut and your
season is over, I was standing, talking with coach Kyler,
and the first person that she introduced me to was the grounds
guy, because this guy
was one of her closest allies. And that
(31:49):
lots of programs, I'm sure, treat their grounds crew the way that
they should be, which, because they're very, very important. But
to me, that was very significant. They have a very close relationship. He is
very good to him. And she, you know, she has the kids
thank him and all just like we used to have thankful Thursdays. Thank the people
around you that make this program possible. But in
(32:10):
that moment, I just thought I was so proud of her because I know how
she treats the people that work for the program or work with the program.
Another example that I was there for a swim meet for my son
and one of the custodial staff people that was there on a Saturday comes in
with a Cleveland State softball shirt, and I literally had tears in my eyes. I
thought Kyler gave that to her because she knows how important she
(32:33):
is to the program. You know, like, as a coach, you're, like, beaming with pride
when you see these things, when your former players are,
you know, doing exactly what you said. Because everyone
in the culture matters, and the more people that you treat
with respect, the more respect is.
Is given. No doubt. Can I just comment on that real quick?
(32:55):
Absolutely. Things. And this is, you know,
there. It's really, really important. If you are a head coach or
you're a captain, you're a leader in a team, there's going to be people on
the end of that bench that don't play minutes. But does their
contribution matter? Right? Does it matter?
Absolutely, it does. You need them to push you in practice and all that, right?
(33:17):
So 100% does matter. And what
a great way to signify that they matter, that everyone matters by
treating the groundskeeper, the janitor, whoever, with
the same respect that you treat the star player with, like everyone's treated with respect,
it just makes everyone feel valued. But if
we go around and we say, well, we're gonna give this much person this much
(33:40):
attention, this much respect, based upon what I feel their
contribution is, you know, that's. That's. That creates a
culture where players will not feel valued if they're not on the court
or on the field playing. Absolutely. Our
administrative assistant was the most important person in the office because I
didn't. As Kortney knows, I don't know how to do technology or, like,
(34:01):
major spreadsheets. And if I didn't have her, I would have wasted tons of time
because my assistants were horrible at it, too. So, you know, I mean,
everyone brings value because everyone can do something
better than you can, quite frankly, because everybody has a gift that you don't. And
I think that's such an important thing for athletes to remember,
mainly because they come from so many
(34:25):
have such an sort of egocentric
outlook, and not even. They don't even know that they're doing it that way.
That's just because their individual coach tells them this. This. This is what
you, you, you, you, you. And then we move into a team setting,
and that doesn't work. So this
display for a captain or a coach can be so valuable
(34:47):
to say, oh, my gosh, observe the landscape and see what other people
are doing, and maybe collectively, we could be
really awesome together. I think that's so important.
Another thing you talked about in the book. And this is, I think, a great
tool for athletes. You talk about stop, start, continue,
(35:07):
or stop, start, you know, sustain, whatever the
terms are that those of us that do this use. Tell us a little bit
about why thinking about what you need to
start doing or stop doing or continue doing can be so important
for a leader in their culture.
Yeah, I think at any stage, first it's about like, what are
(35:31):
we going to keep doing? We got to sustain. And I think we always want
to go to what's not working, what's going wrong, or
what's. What do we need to change? And if you do that, I mean, you
can. If you create a list of a hundred things, you're still missing
another 100 things. Right. So it's a great thing to start from a place
of what's going, what's working, what's going well, what do we need to make sure
we keep doing here and starting from that place? And
(35:54):
then the stop, like you stop is really important because,
you know, if you want to start doing something, you got to stop doing something.
Right? Like add something. So then also
just certain behaviors that might be negative that bring down the culture.
Those. Those would be really key to identify. So you could remove those things
and then. Yeah, it's. It's. Obviously, you've got to do some things to get better,
(36:16):
but typically when I have teams do those reviews,
and I really like to challenge them to come with one per. Per category.
Like, if you can only really offer one thing here,
what's the most important thing from your perspective?
Because there's no sense in adding a list of even five things you gotta
stop and 10 things you gotta start doing. You know, you just can't do it
(36:39):
all. So it's just less is more. You use an example in
the book of, you know, the. The fire prevention
organization that you talked about, they had three or four things that were important
that they needed to do, and they made the list of 50 or so, and
then it made it a lot more difficult to do any. And I think that's
our. One of our faults as humans is it's. First of
(37:01):
all, I don't know where I just went. Did I leave? You're back. Okay, good.
Okay. Because everything just went black for a second. Is that we. When. When we
want to. When we think we need to make change, we want to throw the
baby out with the bathwater, so to speak, and we don't think about
what we need to continue because there's always something in there that
Needs to, to maintain. All right. And then
(37:21):
figuring out one thing that we can tackle. I just read
something the other day that said if something seems hard, it's because the
first step isn't small enough. And
one thing, you talk about Toyota and that, you know,
kaizen 1% better. Those kinds of things make such a big difference.
Absolutely. I love it. Yeah, no, I love that, that,
(37:44):
that, that line there. If the first step should be simple,
you know, 100%. And I mean, I think we, we do over.
Tend to overcomplicate things. And culture is not like building a
house. You don't need to level the ground to build this thing up.
Culture is more like. It's like you're working in a garden. It's like, well, what's
good here? There's actually some great stuff here. You just, you gotta, you
(38:06):
gotta tend to that, cultivate that, and then pull out some of the weeds there.
But, you know, so it's, it's, it's not this leveling. It's, it's a lot more
organic than people tend to think. That's such a great
analogy. You talk about using different tools in the garden and in your analogy in
the book, and I thought, I really resonated with that as well.
There's a lot to it. And a person told
(38:28):
me, they said, if you don't keep your eye on your culture, somebody else will.
And that goes to show how much power an athlete can have
in a culture. They can affect culture. I think we
try to say, not my job, but if you really want
to be in a, in an organization that thrives, it is
really your job. It's every single person's job. And
(38:50):
helping people see their role in it
could be the most important thing you do on a team. Absolutely.
Yeah. This is so important. Something I don't think it's talked about enough
with athletes from their perspective. So I, I
appreciate the thoughts on this. Thank you so much for listening to this
episode of Game Changers Athlete Edition.
(39:13):
So excited to continue this conversation with JP Nurbin next
week. This week we talked about the athlete's perspective on how they
can affect culture. Next week we're going to talk about how parents
impact that same result of culture with their athletes.
So don't forget to tune in in two weeks
for that next episode.
(39:36):
Thanks so much for joining us on Game Changers Athlete Edition.
Remember, champions aren't born. They're built through dedication,
perseverance, and the right mindset. If you found value
in today's episode, share it with a teammate. With a coach or
someone who could benefit from this conversation. Don't forget to
subscribe wherever you get your podcast and follow us on social media for
(39:58):
exclusive content and daily motivation. Until next time,
keep pushing your limits and stay focused on becoming the game
changer you're meant to be.
Culture is not like building a house. You don't need a level the ground
to build this thing up. Culture is more like, it's like you're working in a
garden. It's like, well, what's good here? There's actually some great stuff here. You just,
you gotta, you gotta tend to that, cultivate that and then pull out some of
the weeds there. But, you know, so it's, it's, it's not this leveling. It's a
lot more organic than people tend to think.
(00:24):
Welcome to Game Changers Athlete Edition. I'm Kortney Harmon,
a former Division 1 softball pitcher turned high performance business
coach who knows what it takes to translate athletic mindset into
real world success. And I'm Julie Jones, a Hall of Famer and former
Division 1 head coach with more than 20 years of experience turned mental performance
coach. Together we bridge the gap between elite athletics and
(00:47):
lifelong achievement, helping you unlock your full potential
on and off the field. This podcast is your go to source
for inspiration, motivation, amazing guests and
actionable insights to help you elevate your game.
Welcome back to another episode of Game Changers Athlete Edition.
And today Julie and I are thrilled to welcome a true game
(01:11):
changer in the sports leadership team culture arena.
JP Nurbin is not only a best selling author,
a leadership coach, a founder of TOC Culture
Consulting, a leading global sports consulting and
leadership business coach and what I've heard.
This is my first conversation with jp, but his impressive work has spanned
(01:33):
across sports, education, healthcare, business,
guiding leaders at prestigious institutions like Stanford,
Harvard, University of Texas, USGA,
PwC and Chick Fil A. That was a new one I learned today.
JP has also authored two groundbreaking books called
(01:53):
Calling Up Discovery, your Journey to Transform Transformational
Leadership and the Culture System, A Proven Process in Creating
Extraordinary Team Cultures.
JP has been highly recommended by Julie
for her experience and with coaching and also
joining a class that she's coaching. So I'm super excited today that we're going to
(02:15):
be deep diving into JP's expertise on building winning
team cultures, Transformational leadership, how students can
really take culture into their own hands to help lead their
teams and parents can best support their young athletes going
in this way. So jp, thank you so much for
taking the time out of your busy day to chat with Julie and I.
(02:38):
I'm excited to be here. This is going to be a fun one and I've
enjoyed the last time I got to speak with Julie in her class it was.
Yeah, that was actually gave me a lot of hope being with those students. So
I'm Excited for today's conversation as well. Right, Kortney, you
talk about all the outstanding institutions we have to add in the University of
Akron because we're using. There we go. Right?
(03:00):
We are. We're using his book in my Positive Team Culture class, which is what
got us connected. However, I had been a fan and follower
of his podcast, which has been. I wish I would have had more
access to that when I was coaching. I also do want to add before we
get started, JP Also wrote the Support Parent Solution, Proven
strategies for transforming parents from obstacles
(03:22):
into allies. And we'll be talking a little bit about that in our next episode.
But, jp, I'm excited to be here. I told you before we
went, before we started to record, that you had a great impact on our students
at Akron. And from that experience, I thought this
would be a great time to share some of your expertise in culture
building, but in a little different lens. Your book,
(03:44):
the Culture System, is written for coaches or leaders, and it's
a system that leaders can take and implement
and help build a better, better performing culture.
The other side of that is the people that we're building culture with
instead of for. Right. So I thought it would be
(04:05):
awesome to discuss some of the things that you have in
that system, but from the lens of an athlete, how can
athletes help better their
culture? How can athletes build culture? How can athletes
manage or, you know, perpetuate
outstanding cultures and manage cultures that are a little bit
(04:27):
maybe dysfunctional? So those are a lot of questions, but let's just start wherever
you want to with what is the athlete's role in
team culture? Yeah, I mean, I guess there's a lot of things
you could say that they could do, but it all would start from this one
place, which I'll give you. The first thing I'll give you is just that athletes
is the same I would give to a coach, which is your
(04:49):
own example how you show up in that environment.
And so often people,
whether that be a head coach or a captain
or a star player, whatever it be, people,
when things you know are positive, they're upbeat. They
really embody the things that they value until it gets
(05:13):
really hard, until others around them turn negative, Right?
And oftentimes, you know, people might say, well, they hold on, they
hold on, and they become the last line of fence. But eventually they break down.
And it's just there is an aspect of leadership,
whether you're the head coach or a player within a team,
that could use, you know, this resilience
(05:35):
to stay true to your values, regardless of how other people,
you're losing streak or whatever is going on in your environment.
So there's, there's many things to do with, even in just
that process itself, which is to know what do you value, to
know who you want to be, who do you want are you when
you're at your best? And then it's about going and being that
(05:59):
every day. That's the hard
part. The one quote from your book, it's not an exact
quote, but you were talking, our coach was talking, it might have been
the soccer coach and maybe you can talk a little about that culture, but they
were saying when is it hardest to stick to your values or when
is it hardest to maintain your culture? And this was the
(06:21):
question in our class all semester long is everything's
great. And as John Madden says, you know, winning is
a great deodorant. It covers up all the stinky stuff. I don't know
if that's exactly what he said, but very close. But how
do you, how do you stick to these things
when things aren't going the way you
(06:43):
want? Because you can have, as you say, you can have things placard everywhere, but
if we don't live them, they don't exist.
Well, first off, for whatever is placard, that it's truly authentic to you,
I think a lot of times leaders take, you know, oh, I
like Kobe Bryant, Mamba mentality. That's, that's gonna, that's what I'm about.
No, that's, that was Kobe, that wasn't you.
(07:08):
So you have to really know whatever is placard, whatever you put on your
sheet, your T shirt, whatever you put on your shoes, whatever you put on your,
you know, these little artifacts that we like to have, these little videos that we
like to listen to or that do we have these mantras,
these beliefs, these values that are truly ours.
That's the first really important piece in that.
(07:30):
Then there comes down to
making sure that we have certain
practices within our lives, wellness,
that we take care of ourselves so that we can respond well to
stress and adversity. So I mean, these are the obvious
things but like it's, you know, nutrition and sleeping, right?
(07:53):
And you know, those types of things that
are really important. Phone usage, you know, just, just
being aware of how that affects you. So just your own mental,
emotional well being is really important that you take care of that. Because
if you don't take care of yourself, then you really. The window of tolerance
for stress and adversity becomes much smaller. So that's a big
(08:16):
piece of it. And then on top of that, it can be really
helpful to have what I would say mindfulness practices
that help you to be reflective. So like
mindfulness meditation and journaling as well
as Dr. Michael Gervais would
say, conversations with people of wisdom, mentors or
(08:38):
coaches that hold up a mirror that help you to be
self reflective of. Ooh, I'm a little bit off track here and
help pull me back into track. Reading
books on leadership, performance
development, mental strength, mental resilience, just in
listening to good people as well too. Like those are a plethora of
(09:01):
ideas. But I think you need to be marinating in
that type of stuff. I think it helps you to stay
true. And also it's not like you have this moment of like
this day or this week or this single moment that you get clarity on who
you are and who you are as your best. It's a kind of these things
are a process. They're constantly, constantly having happening. You're
(09:23):
constantly understanding, okay, who am I? What do I value? What's most important to me
as you go through this experience of, you know, learning
and mindfulness and working on yourself,
it's interesting. Oh, go ahead, Kortney, I'll let you go. Sorry, I'm
not as strong with my voice right now.
J.P. you just mentioned a lot of wonderful things as an
(09:44):
individual to do outside of their team to
that will influence right now
firsthand. This year I've seen a lot of teams
struggle and I'm going to look at this
like I interview business leaders on my other podcast and
the percentage of athletes that are business leaders that, you know that
(10:06):
69 to 95% that hold leadership roles
in these businesses, I almost want to take that back down to the education
level or the, the team level. How do they influence
the culture of the whole team? Or a bad coach or you
know, they're taking that individually. But that one person can
really see steer the team in a different direction. But how do they.
(10:29):
You know, oftentimes we get in those situations with maybe a bad
coach or a really toxic team. But
in the idea of how do I take that to change the
trajectory, almost like managing up for our businesses.
Yeah. I think there
is two really big things in this. A lot of
(10:53):
times we get overwhelmed by the current state of the culture.
It feels toxic, it feels negative, it's low
performing. And so where we instantly go to
and it's a great place to go to is the behaviors. You got to lead
by example, like are you the hardest working person on your team? Are you the
most positive person on your team. Right. Like, just being that person
(11:15):
that's positive, that's hardworking, that has a great attitude, that's grateful
to be out there, no matter the circumstances.
Like, that itself is really important.
So lead by example, no matter the
circumstances. Like, that's real tough,
but it's really important to do. However, outside of
(11:37):
leading by example, I would say
it would be around the stories, the
mindsets, the beliefs that people have. So
how can you help others to reframe? How can you
help others to shift their mindset? Because our thinking drives our behaviors,
and our behaviors drive our results. And so as
(12:00):
a leader, when you hear other people go negative,
how do you help them go positive? How can you reframe that? Right. You have
a big loss, and it's frustrating. I was working with an athlete
the other day, and I loved. I said, how'd you feel about your performance?
And the coaches would have been a bit down on his performance. And other
people said he didn't perform. He's like the star on the team. And he said,
(12:21):
yeah, but I was, I know I didn't get the results I wanted, but I
was so close on these, these couple goals, and it just had gone a little
bit more to the left or right here. I, I, we want to be talking
about a negative performance. We'd be talking about how amazing I played. Like,
he just knew. Like, it's, he had everything in perspective. His way of framing that
was great. Well, what happens the next game? He goes out and scores two
(12:41):
goals. Right. Like, has this amazing game. Right. So,
but how could he do that for other people? Right. So he has a great
mindset. He's a good lead by example. But how can he help his
teammate who's really down on himself, remind him of that. Or the team
in the huddle, remind them of that. Because at the end of the day,
you as a leader, whether the head coach or you're a captain
(13:02):
or star player or anybody out there, you can help people
frame the narrative. Yeah, I love that
you said in the book, you talked about the comedian
and the comedian who changed his performance
by changing his perspective. Will you tell us a little bit about that
(13:23):
story and why that's so important for athletes to
understand that mindset? Yeah. So the
comedian, Michael Jr. Who's very successful
comedian, he had a really
big day. He was appearing on the Leno show, I think, like,
15, 20 years ago. And up until this point,
(13:46):
every time he stepped on stage, it was like, how can I get people to
laugh? How can I get people laugh. So everything was about getting people
to laugh. And then one day he had this experience
after the Leno show, I believe, and he
saw this homeless person outside when he was walking out,
(14:09):
and he thought about giving, like, how could I give people the
opportunity to laugh? And so he started actually doing a lot of
comedy shows in areas where
people were coming from really tough situations, whether it be
prisons, homeless shelters, or
homes with orphans. Right. Orphanages.
(14:33):
So he just changed his mindset now. It
changed what he did in the sense of where he obviously did comedy, still does
comedy, and big, big, big arenas and big shows, but
everything. What really changed for him was, like, his mindset. He went from how do
I get? To how do I give? And that came from a place of
abundance, a place of gratitude. And. And so
(14:55):
I tell that story because it really talks about how the
importance of mindset within a leader. And so I think, you
know, oftentimes we fall into traps of having an
entitled mindset. Well, they're lucky to have me, or I should get this because I'm
great, or that instead of graduating, I'm grateful. I'm lucky to be here. I'm fortunate.
I get to do this. I get to practice, I get to play. I get
(15:17):
to be a part of this team, right? So it could be shifting from that.
It can be shifting from an inward to an outward mindset, as the Arbinger Institute
talks about, which is, hey, I see people as obstacles, vehicles,
or irrelevant to my success. To, hey, I see people
as people like, they're like, I see the person, and
they're just as important as me. So there's a lot of different mindsets you can
(15:39):
tap into, but it ties into this thing, what we were just talking about there,
which is just how much our thinking, our mindsets drive our behaviors.
And so a lot of times people go, what do great leaders do? Rather than
think about what do great leaders do? Think about what do great leaders. How do
they think? Right. How do they think about things? How do they see other people?
(16:00):
It's awesome that you just brought up the outward mindset. I actually have two
slides that I was going to talk to you about from the book that I
use in some of my team sessions about, you know, current results and
then behaviors. Protecting and advancing oneself
leads to an inner, inward mindset. And then, you
know, an outward mindset is the advancement, the collective result, looking
(16:22):
at what we can do for others, either blaming or
taking accountability, all those different things. But I thought that. I thought that story
was so important when we think about what am I trying to get compared to
what am I trying to give? And that's all that makes a huge difference
in culture. I listened to. You probably have listened to it as well,
the School of Greatness with Lewis Howells. And I remember one time he was talking
(16:45):
about his fear of public speaking, and
his speech coach, his public speaking coach said,
when you walk out there, think about how you're going to help them
instead of yourself,
get into them. I always tell our teams that I work with, get
out of your head and into somebody else. And I think that is such a
(17:08):
big lesson for athletes because the culture doesn't. The outward
culture doesn't really tell them that. Do you agree that that's a
challenge? Yeah, I just actually, before we. We
hopped on this call to record this podcast, I was coaching an athlete
who was just coming out of an injury, was not likely to be in the
starting lineup this coming weekend, and was
(17:31):
very aware, very to her credit,
very aware, that she could easily fall into a selfish
mindset. And so I asked her, I said, well, what
would be the worst thing for you to be selfish on the sidelines
if you weren't playing on Sunday and they're in a big
final national Championship cup game? And she said, that would. I. That
(17:53):
would be more excluded and I wouldn't be helping the team
to win. That would be actually the worst thing. And so she was able to
come to this awareness of, like, how that. That doesn't
serve her. It doesn't serve the team right and that in that
setting. So she has to be able to make a shift. And it's a hard
shift because she's always been on the field. She's always. She's one of the better
(18:14):
players in the country. She's, you know, and so this is a
new experience for her, have to sit on the sidelines. But it was for
her, it's about how she. Which this conclusion she came to
was, okay, the best thing that I can do is just
focus on being the best me. What does that look like? If I'm
playing and training, that's going to help push my teammates.
(18:37):
And then whether I'm playing or not, what's the best me?
What other parts of my identity, my personality
bring value outside of just kicking this ball
and scoring goals. So this individual
had to identify that. And so I think when it comes to this
selfless mindset, moving into that outward mindset,
(18:59):
it's trying to understand how we provide value,
how we help others in the world outside of just
scoring Our performance, just like Michael
Jr. Okay. It wasn't just about, you know, going
out there and getting people to laugh. It's like, what does it actually mean
(19:19):
to give them the opportunity to laugh? What does it actually do for them?
How does it actually help them to shift? It's not just entertainment on a Friday
night. It actually was really significant and meaningful to these
orphans, to these homeless people. Oh, people care about me,
right? Like, you're doing much more than just comedy.
Absolutely. One other thing you mentioned
(19:44):
a few minutes ago. You're talking about stories. How can
we change the story? We know that we are very
good storytellers in our own head, and we make things
a little bigger than they normally are at times. I'm sure Kortney
had lots of stories about me when. When she was on
the team, and they weren't all good. I am certain of
(20:07):
that. But here we are today, see, because the stories weren't all
true. But one another thing you talk about in the book, and this is something
that. That there's tons of research on, but you talk about
complaining and how complaining affects
things. You've probably read John Gordon's book
with Mike Smith about. It starts in the locker room for. You went
(20:29):
in the locker room first, and he. And you know, they had a no complaining
rule on the Atlanta Falcons when Mike Smith was the coach. Talk a little bit
about complaining, what it does to
teams. And. And that's maybe one way athletes
can help adjust as well as to. You talk about, you know,
moving things from negative to positive. But I don't know if people
(20:51):
really think of complaining as negative all the time
or doesn't make them feel negative. Yeah, it's. It's. It's an
interesting thing from a leadership perspective. We want people to
be honest. We want people to share their frustrations.
And when does that become unhealthy? Right.
When does it become complaining? Right. And complaining
(21:13):
is sharing a frustration,
a belief around ways that things aren't the way they should be.
And. But being unwilling or not really
necessarily taking any steps to. To change that.
And so I think as a leader, you want to provide.
A lot of times within teams that I work with, they do like leadership groups,
(21:37):
whether it's a selected group of leadership captains or,
you know, leaders that run groups where they look after four or five people oftentimes.
And one of the things that they're responsible for is checking in with them and
what's going on for them and is there any frustrations or challenges
and that could seem like that leaders
encouraging them to Complain? No, it's hey, there's a frustration, there's a
(21:59):
challenge, there's an issue. Bring it to, let's air it
so that I can help you solve for that how we can all work together
to solve this issue, this challenge that's facing, facing the team
or it's facing this individual or they don't feel like they're getting a fair chance
or they don't feel like they're getting enough feedback or you know, whatever it
be. And so the idea is yeah, we
(22:21):
want honesty and we want communication in our environment
so we can work towards solutions. But it becomes complaining when we're not
really taking any action and we're just venting and our frustrations
and that creates negative stories within the groups and
that understory that under that, that story within
the, within the group that, that really start to shift a culture very
(22:44):
quickly because it's, it's very contagious.
I want to expound on that a little bit more obviously.
We talked about your coaching culture podcast which we will link in our show notes.
I ideally addressing the team culture but like you just mentioned one
thing that could be a common culture building mistake.
(23:06):
I want to know what the most common or like the three
top culture building mistakes you see teams or
athletes make. Give me three.
Yeah, I think it that that's probably
like really close to the top from players which is to hear
people out and letting them vent.
(23:27):
And hey I just. Some people just need a vent and then
that's it. Right. Like there's validating
what people feel but then you have to help them move beyond that. Okay, so
what, so what can we do about it? What options do we have? What choices
do we have here? That would be a really, really big one
(23:48):
I think from a player's perspective, I think from another thing from a player's
perspective would be sitting back and just
expecting the coach to really drive the culture.
And I mean I think at the end of the day
now more than ever the research would show with this generation of
athletes, Gen Z that Gen Z cares
(24:11):
more about peer recognition than even coach recognition than maybe
like that that dynamic shifted and that's. And so
you as a teammate, you can organize things,
you can honestly those are the best things. Got a college team
here in Ireland where I live, high level national championship team.
They had a tradition on every Wednesday after practice, tea and chats,
(24:35):
everybody, everybody is expected to come over and have tea
and biscuits. And biscuits are like cookies over here in Ireland,
but just different name for it but. And they have tea and they just
sit around and chat for 30, 45 minutes after practice. And this is a way
to connect. Right. It's just a simple tradition. Right. So
little simple traditions. Don't ever underestimate how
(24:58):
just bringing everybody together within your team
can move the culture forward. We all want to go on the big
team, paintball and thing or this, all that stuff. Like no, just like
simple little traditions, inviting everybody for coffee where everyone's invited
or whatever it be within your team. Like that goes a
(25:19):
long, long way. I would say
that would be kind of the second one is that we just underestimate the
impact of those types of things as well as then underestimate the
impacts of little, little
behaviors and encouraging those behaviors. Like getting
everybody to practice on time to. If you're on a basketball team or football
(25:41):
team, hey, let's all do a little bit of extra work here to start off
with. Like we're here early. Let's, let's partner up and let's do these
like just bringing intentionality. Like it could be that it's just
starting little behavioral traditions within your sport as
well. I think helps to drive performance. So
if you're going to the gym on a Saturday and it's an off day for
(26:01):
a recovery session or you know, for those types of things,
great. Are you inviting other people with you to. Are you going in for
extra skill work or you're showing up early and you working intentionally?
Right. It's great. Lead by example, but make sure you invite other people because a
lot of times people don't actually know that they're. They're welcome.
(26:22):
In those three, you started to talk about behaviors.
And one of the things in the book that you talk about for leaders
that is necessary when you're building culture is establishing your
non negotiables. Can you talk about that from an athlete's
perspective and how that might be important to their
(26:42):
ability to help maintain culture and to
improve their performance? Yeah. I think
at the end of the day, your non negotiables answer the question what do I
need to be successful? What do
I need to be successful? I think it's an important question to
reflect on from an athlete perspective, like
(27:05):
what do I need for my coaches? But even just flip that around and ask
your coaches like, hey coach, what do you need from me
and what do you need from all of us for you to be
as successful and as effective as a leader as possible. Right.
Just ask your start from a place of asking your coach that that might be
a really powerful thing. That really shows that you care, that
(27:27):
you're interested in helping support them. So if you have a.
That's a really, really great question to ask. I've had a lot of, I do
a lot of coaching in the corporate space as well too. And people are having
to lead up the chain of command and they might experience some frustrations with their
boss. Same question. I say, hey, go to your boss and say, hey, what do
you need from me to help you be successful in your role?
(27:47):
And so asking that hearing three, four or five things that
your coach says would be really grateful. Good to hear. And then
turning back around and being able to tell the team, maybe your coach and
like, hey, like, these are the things that we really need if I'm going to
be successful. If you're going to be successful, like, we all need to be
making sure that we're on time, we're getting proper
(28:10):
recovery and that we're spending time to get off the field of the court or
whatever it be. I just think at the end of the day you're trying to
figure out what do I need? And so it's important to know those things as
well too. Because as a lot of times athletes go through the recruitment
process or selecting a team or selecting a coach, selecting an environment
is like, are you choosing the environment for you to be successful? Are
(28:31):
you or are you just picking the one with the coolest locker rooms or the
biggest nil deal or whatever it be? Like, are the most
popular? Like, are you actually going to be successful there? Is that type of coaching
going to help you be successful? Is that environment going to help you to be
successful? So I think that would be something to just even select the team you
play on. You just mentioned
(28:51):
some other things to think about besides obviously coaches and
players, who else shapes team culture and how do we include them
more obviously? Parents are a big part, you know, peers are a big part.
But talk to me like, how do we get all of them on board
and not just think about the surface level things or the most
people that are front and center on this journey? Yeah,
(29:15):
I think it's really interesting that you just bring in the idea of like, well,
other people are part of this because other people are, you know,
I actually genuinely think that how a team treats and when
I say this like that, for lack of a better term, like the low,
lowest person, like the equipment manager
to, you know, the janitor. Like, I think how the leader
(29:37):
treats those people says so
much about the culture. And I think it's the same within how A leader
interacts with parents right at the end of the day. I do a lot of
work with coaches. Parents have become a big part of it. Of the
sporting culture. But it seems like
coaches tend to build walls, again, with
(29:59):
trying to keep parents out rather than to engage them. And so I. I mean,
I think it's about. We got to bring. We recognize that
athletes need the support of, you know, obviously their
community. They need to support some of their coaches, and they need, you know,
they need support from their parents as well. The parents are the
biggest influence in their lives. So the more we can get those all
(30:21):
working together, the better. And I think that.
So I'm a huge advocate for coaches to engage the parents, bring them in there.
I also think that players have a bit of a responsibility in that,
too. They can be really helpful in
communicating what they need from their parents to be successful. I think
that. And one of those is to not
(30:44):
harass our coach or whatever it be. You know, it be something like that. But
just really like, hey, what do I need from you to. For my parents to
be successful? My role and communicating to that and get on the same page of
that would be. Would be a real positive, for sure.
I have an example of that that I just witnessed this
weekend. So one of my former players and one of
(31:06):
Kortney's former coaches as well, is the head coach at Cleveland State
University in softball. The assistant coach played for me,
too. But at Akron, they just cut the program. So this was
their last weekend they played in a conference tournament. I was there for the very
last Cleveland State softball game. And when I went out onto the
field afterwards, after they did all their crying and hugging and
(31:28):
all the things that you would do after your program is being cut and your
season is over, I was standing, talking with coach Kyler,
and the first person that she introduced me to was the grounds
guy, because this guy
was one of her closest allies. And that
(31:49):
lots of programs, I'm sure, treat their grounds crew the way that
they should be, which, because they're very, very important. But
to me, that was very significant. They have a very close relationship. He is
very good to him. And she, you know, she has the kids
thank him and all just like we used to have thankful Thursdays. Thank the people
around you that make this program possible. But in
(32:10):
that moment, I just thought I was so proud of her because I know how
she treats the people that work for the program or work with the program.
Another example that I was there for a swim meet for my son
and one of the custodial staff people that was there on a Saturday comes in
with a Cleveland State softball shirt, and I literally had tears in my eyes. I
thought Kyler gave that to her because she knows how important she
(32:33):
is to the program. You know, like, as a coach, you're, like, beaming with pride
when you see these things, when your former players are,
you know, doing exactly what you said. Because everyone
in the culture matters, and the more people that you treat
with respect, the more respect is.
Is given. No doubt. Can I just comment on that real quick?
(32:55):
Absolutely. Things. And this is, you know,
there. It's really, really important. If you are a head coach or
you're a captain, you're a leader in a team, there's going to be people on
the end of that bench that don't play minutes. But does their
contribution matter? Right? Does it matter?
Absolutely, it does. You need them to push you in practice and all that, right?
(33:17):
So 100% does matter. And what
a great way to signify that they matter, that everyone matters by
treating the groundskeeper, the janitor, whoever, with
the same respect that you treat the star player with, like everyone's treated with respect,
it just makes everyone feel valued. But if
we go around and we say, well, we're gonna give this much person this much
(33:40):
attention, this much respect, based upon what I feel their
contribution is, you know, that's. That's. That creates a
culture where players will not feel valued if they're not on the court
or on the field playing. Absolutely. Our
administrative assistant was the most important person in the office because I
didn't. As Kortney knows, I don't know how to do technology or, like,
(34:01):
major spreadsheets. And if I didn't have her, I would have wasted tons of time
because my assistants were horrible at it, too. So, you know, I mean,
everyone brings value because everyone can do something
better than you can, quite frankly, because everybody has a gift that you don't. And
I think that's such an important thing for athletes to remember,
mainly because they come from so many
(34:25):
have such an sort of egocentric
outlook, and not even. They don't even know that they're doing it that way.
That's just because their individual coach tells them this. This. This is what
you, you, you, you, you. And then we move into a team setting,
and that doesn't work. So this
display for a captain or a coach can be so valuable
(34:47):
to say, oh, my gosh, observe the landscape and see what other people
are doing, and maybe collectively, we could be
really awesome together. I think that's so important.
Another thing you talked about in the book. And this is, I think, a great
tool for athletes. You talk about stop, start, continue,
(35:07):
or stop, start, you know, sustain, whatever the
terms are that those of us that do this use. Tell us a little bit
about why thinking about what you need to
start doing or stop doing or continue doing can be so important
for a leader in their culture.
Yeah, I think at any stage, first it's about like, what are
(35:31):
we going to keep doing? We got to sustain. And I think we always want
to go to what's not working, what's going wrong, or
what's. What do we need to change? And if you do that, I mean, you
can. If you create a list of a hundred things, you're still missing
another 100 things. Right. So it's a great thing to start from a place
of what's going, what's working, what's going well, what do we need to make sure
we keep doing here and starting from that place? And
(35:54):
then the stop, like you stop is really important because,
you know, if you want to start doing something, you got to stop doing something.
Right? Like add something. So then also
just certain behaviors that might be negative that bring down the culture.
Those. Those would be really key to identify. So you could remove those things
and then. Yeah, it's. It's. Obviously, you've got to do some things to get better,
(36:16):
but typically when I have teams do those reviews,
and I really like to challenge them to come with one per. Per category.
Like, if you can only really offer one thing here,
what's the most important thing from your perspective?
Because there's no sense in adding a list of even five things you gotta
stop and 10 things you gotta start doing. You know, you just can't do it
(36:39):
all. So it's just less is more. You use an example in
the book of, you know, the. The fire prevention
organization that you talked about, they had three or four things that were important
that they needed to do, and they made the list of 50 or so, and
then it made it a lot more difficult to do any. And I think that's
our. One of our faults as humans is it's. First of
(37:01):
all, I don't know where I just went. Did I leave? You're back. Okay, good.
Okay. Because everything just went black for a second. Is that we. When. When we
want to. When we think we need to make change, we want to throw the
baby out with the bathwater, so to speak, and we don't think about
what we need to continue because there's always something in there that
Needs to, to maintain. All right. And then
(37:21):
figuring out one thing that we can tackle. I just read
something the other day that said if something seems hard, it's because the
first step isn't small enough. And
one thing, you talk about Toyota and that, you know,
kaizen 1% better. Those kinds of things make such a big difference.
Absolutely. I love it. Yeah, no, I love that, that,
(37:44):
that, that line there. If the first step should be simple,
you know, 100%. And I mean, I think we, we do over.
Tend to overcomplicate things. And culture is not like building a
house. You don't need to level the ground to build this thing up.
Culture is more like. It's like you're working in a garden. It's like, well, what's
good here? There's actually some great stuff here. You just, you gotta, you
(38:06):
gotta tend to that, cultivate that, and then pull out some of the weeds there.
But, you know, so it's, it's, it's not this leveling. It's, it's a lot more
organic than people tend to think. That's such a great
analogy. You talk about using different tools in the garden and in your analogy in
the book, and I thought, I really resonated with that as well.
There's a lot to it. And a person told
(38:28):
me, they said, if you don't keep your eye on your culture, somebody else will.
And that goes to show how much power an athlete can have
in a culture. They can affect culture. I think we
try to say, not my job, but if you really want
to be in a, in an organization that thrives, it is
really your job. It's every single person's job. And
(38:50):
helping people see their role in it
could be the most important thing you do on a team. Absolutely.
Yeah. This is so important. Something I don't think it's talked about enough
with athletes from their perspective. So I, I
appreciate the thoughts on this. Thank you so much for listening to this
episode of Game Changers Athlete Edition.
(39:13):
So excited to continue this conversation with JP Nurbin next
week. This week we talked about the athlete's perspective on how they
can affect culture. Next week we're going to talk about how parents
impact that same result of culture with their athletes.
So don't forget to tune in in two weeks
for that next episode.
(39:36):
Thanks so much for joining us on Game Changers Athlete Edition.
Remember, champions aren't born. They're built through dedication,
perseverance, and the right mindset. If you found value
in today's episode, share it with a teammate. With a coach or
someone who could benefit from this conversation. Don't forget to
subscribe wherever you get your podcast and follow us on social media for
(39:58):
exclusive content and daily motivation. Until next time,
keep pushing your limits and stay focused on becoming the game
changer you're meant to be.
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