April 14, 2025 • 51 mins
Ryan Coogler stops by to talk his new film Sinners, Chadwick Boseman, growing up a movie nerd and being inspired by Puss in Boots: The Last Wish
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's going on? I'm Ryan Coogler, right, a director of Sinners,
and you're on Get Wrecked with straw Had Goofy.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Wake up?
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Did you time to go to work? All right? Can
we talk about we go back in it?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Get it?
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Yeah? Wake up?
Speaker 4 (00:16):
I get it that get at that goal with everyone
saying I'm up next, it's time my father, the vocals
a goal that making that hit us so well that
my lad is a movie the way that that role
they saying them people, Baby, you know I'm making everybody
upset because we do best help we get rapped and
I know we gonna get bread, gonna get bread.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm gonna get breast cunning, get bread, gonna get.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Bread, bread.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Everybody?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
It shit boys, straw had Goofy, Juju Green. You're a
movie guy and you already know what it is. We
are here with the writer, director, producer of Centers, his
new films fifth film with Right with Michael B.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Jordan's Ryan Coogler. How are we doing? My guy?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Good bro, Happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm telling you I've been I've been here. I've been
telling everybody. This is uh, this is episode three years
in the making.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
It was three years ago, man, we first met on
that red carpet will kind of forever, and you know,
before we get started, I just I really have to
like take the time out to let you know, bro, man,
Like that moment changed the trajectory of like everything that
I've been doing, you know what I'm saying, Like it
started off with just a moment and me just wanted
to like let you know how much.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I appreciate you your work, what you do for.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
The culture, and the fact that you were just so
welcoming and so open, so humble to like actually like
sit talk to me and find out who I was,
and you know, we were able to kind of like
build a relationship from that. Like it's meant the world
to me, Bro, Like it really has. Like for the
most part, you've, like I said, you've been inspiration to me.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
But I was just happy to like have that moment
with you. You know what I'm saying. I was just
happy to just like get that That's all I needed.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I appreciate you, Bro, I appreciate you sharing that man.
Congrat man. Of course, it's been amazing to see what
you're doing, Bro, And and y'all can't believe it's been
three years.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
It's been three years.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, I'm telling you, bro, you're the reason why this
podcast exists. To be honest, I'm pretty sure I told
you this before.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
But like like.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
That time where it was at the Missing Red Carpet,
like I'm not even gonna hold you, bro, Like I
was like not feeling it that day, Like I was
kind of tired. I was kind of like beating whatnot,
Like I think I just moved into a new spot
and I was there just kind of like you know,
see a movie, you know, kind of get out of
my head a little bit. And when you was there,
like you was the same way, like very caring, very kind,
like very humble, and you know, we were chopping it
(02:29):
up there and you asked me this question that was
like that really like in a way changed my brain chemistry.
Where you said, like, you know, you're making cool videos
and everything, but what are you trying to do with it?
And it wasn't like you were pressing me, but you
were like genuinely curious about that. Yeah, And like it
was that question that made me go, damn, like I
don't know what I'm doing with this like I am
just kind of like out here just making videos just
(02:49):
to make them. But like if I want to like
create something out of it, what am I doing?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
So like I sat there and I thought about it
for a long long time.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
And so that's when I was like, yo, like you know,
a podcast will be really cool, like you love yapping
about film and yapping about the people who make it.
And you know, once we started getting that ball rolling,
I texted you. I said, hey, you're the reason why
this whole thing exists, Like I would love it if
you could be on and once again you came through
it said hey, whatever happens, we're gonna make this happen.
Like here's some information and now we're here, like you
(03:20):
know what I'm saying later, Like I really appreciate you, man, Like.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
That's nice, big bro. I mean like it's always you
know that the reality is man, one story like that
how you justly shared how you got to the decision
to make something happen and now and now it is. Yeah,
(03:46):
people gonna take this one and uh listen at home,
you know. And I think that podcasts are interesting because
you know, it's radio essentially. Yeah, but but it's radio
on demand, like somebody made a choice to the press
play as opposed to you know, passively having it on
(04:10):
and listening. You know, I think a lot of people
gonna listen to it. That's how the place maybe you
was at, you know, like you just described at that
you know that at that premiere, Uh who was at
the Alamo?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Wasn't we uh that the red carpet for a black panther?
Speaker 1 (04:26):
No? No, no for mission? Yeah. Yeah. And I think, like
you know, people, I listen to podcasts when I'm in
that zone that's actually wan I go to, like like
like if if it's if I'm feeling contemplative about something specific,
you know what I mean, I throw a podcast on
and I think that your story is going to be
(04:47):
got more stories people where people gonna be at home
thinking listening here that Oh yeah, man, when Juju said
he was going through he had to decide to do
to do, you know man? And and and that's that's
what I think is, Uh, it's so awesome of a body, bro.
You're going to influence people. Probably you might not ever.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Meet, you know what I'm saying, at least at least
you get to tell me you know exactly and I'm
happy to be here telling it to you know what
I'm saying, Like it's come true.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
It's powerful man.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Man.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
But like something something I wanted to like open this
podcast up with you about is like, you know, not
everybody gets that opportunity, right, Like, not everybody gets to
meet the people that inspires them and get to create
something off of that. Usually it's kind of like it
happens like out there somewhere and then hopefully they'll meet.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Somewhere down the line.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But it's also very rare that like the person you
know that it's the whole thing, like don't meet your
heroes type of thing. It's like very rare when you do,
like they're exactly what they've been told and that is advertised.
Ye I want to know, like with you, I just
joked about it, and I keep joking about this. You
are an extremely humble dude, despite the fact that like
you're so talented and you're so like like what you
do for the culture is like undeniable, And I want
(05:52):
to know, like, where does that humbleness come from? Like
where does that begin for you?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah? Uh man, humility, bro, It's one of those concepts
that that I struggle with in terms of like understanding it.
You know what I'm saying, Like I use the I
use the vibe, but but it's it's such a versative,
versatile word, bro, Like what what what? What? What I
(06:23):
try to do for myself? It is maintaining perspective, you know, constantly,
and it's a survival tactic for me. Uh it helps
my mental health and it helps, I think, protect me
from from from from losing that perspective. Uh if that
(06:49):
makes sense Because I work in a in a in
a in a craft, and in a business surrounding that
craft where you know what I make. It has to
work for a lot of people, you know what I'm saying,
Like it has to. It has to you know, when
(07:10):
I tell a story, it can't just work for people
who came up.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Like I came up right right right, or or it
can't just work for people in a position and I'm
in right now. It's gotta work for effectively every position,
you know. You know what I'm saying, It's gotta work
for every type of person who came up, every type
of way.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
You know, you know what I'm saying, Like in and
my ability to to to make things, uh that can
work for people who had that perspective. You know that
that that is the full extent of my usefulness at
my job. You know what I'm saying that at the
moment I make something that don't connect, you know, I'm done,
(07:50):
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Like and and.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So that like like I like I have to to
to to uh actively maintain that perspective that the issue
comes with. You know, this is an industry where uh
I found entertainment, where where it's a lot to be
(08:17):
gained from people building you up and tearing you down.
You know, like like you either way it's well yeah
man like like like and it's very dehumanizing. It's not personal,
you know what I'm saying, Like like fans, you got
you got the life going. And it's people they might say,
man like uh uh uh hey man he he man
(08:39):
he man. Cougar is awesome. Right, but if you watch
that long enough, you'll get somebody's gonna say say, when
I do.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
It, such, he's the worst, you know, you know you
know what I mean, Like I read the conversation, you
see it all right.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Right, So like and the thing is is like one
of those things you read it makes you feel good,
feel good? One of them things you read it makes
you feel awful? Which one of those things is true?
The truth? The truth is is that neither one.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Of these people know me, Like we were just talking
about that.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
That's the reality. You know, you know what I'm saying.
It just like maintaining that perspective, you know, like I
can engage with that and a much healthier situation. You know,
you know what I'm saying, Like like if I if
I'm uh not practicing uh the craft of keeping myself
(09:38):
in reality walking on to feet on the ground and
knowing that I put my claws on just like everybody else.
I got good days and bad days, just like everybody else.
You know, you know what I'm saying, Like I got
days where where I'm feeling it like everyone else. I
got days where I'm not feeling it like everybody else.
You know what I'm saying. And I'm in a position
as a product of of of me and my work
(10:00):
ethic partially but also probably of a lot of show
I had no control over.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm saying here this business like
involves a lot of love too.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, It's almost man, I had George Lucas tell me
it's almost entirely luck, you know, like like like I
had him tell me bro that that him and all
his colleagues, you know, who have been referred to about
many names and a lot of film literature. They call
it the film school bratches, the first guys to go
(10:32):
to film school for college and then make it, you know, uh,
the couple of the Scorchet and uh, you know, the
Spielbergs birds, you know, like like his contemporary and he shaid,
the number one reason that we know who they are
today is because of their age and the time that
they were born, and the fact that they came of
age at the time all of the the other filmmakers
(10:55):
were passing away.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Right right, right right right, So it was.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
It was the loss of a workforce that was so
extreme that they looked to the young guy. They started
giving them jobs like that. And he said, that's that's
how we makes a lot of sense, you know, like
and he said, he told me, look at my face,
said that was it. It was not that we were
so great or that we were so smart.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It was just a chance. It was like it was, it.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Was it was a chance. When they were born you.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Know, you know, yeah, you know it was almost like
I might as well, like this is who was here.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Might as well you know, that was that was how
that was how it happened for them, you know. And
and and it's not to take away from the work
ethic and it was always there and all that, but
he was saying they could have done all of that.
And if those filmmakers I was that didn't age out,
you know, they would have been something had.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
A different story. Like how many great filmmakers are like that?
Like we praised that, like not a lot of people
know about or like don't get the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
It's a lot, it's a lot that never never got
that shot. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean that
that Sally would never hear. So so I keep all
of that in perspective, bro. Like so that for me
is like you know, if you want to call humility,
you know, like like like like for me, it's it's
me yah, maintaining perspective of reality.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm product of a lot of people supporting me.
I'm product of timing you know, you know what I'm saying.
I'm product of uh uh uh folks believing in me.
(12:33):
You know, and and I work in a business where
that's that's like incredibly collaborative. You know, I'm only as
good as the people who say, yes, yeah, I got
something I want. Does that makes sense?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So it makes perfect?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
So yeah, bro, So I can't walk around here like they.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Give you the ship, like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, I mean bro, Like honestly, like I posted that
video of us chilling out an IMAX and like people
were just like rocked by your humility and like your realness,
and you know, I think everything you just say right
now just kind of like keeping everything in perspective, you
know what I'm saying, Like I you know, I struggle
with that for years, like when I got into this,
because you know, it happened so quick and it took
(13:13):
me a minute to like not go after people who
always have something to say about me and have to
realize that whatever people have to say about me, it
don't matter to me.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
You know, it's.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You know what I'm saying, And it's like, at the
end of the day, the truth is whether it's good
or bad. Like you don't know me, you know what
I'm saying, and like we know what the truth lies.
Behind like who we are.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
So I'm happy to hear you saying that because like
I've been kind of going through that as like a
personal journey of just kind of like let myself be
the villain in somebody else's story because everybody got.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Their own story all has nothing to do with you.
You're a side character.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So I find that very fascinating, bro, Like I really do,
but like to take it like back, you know, even
before like you kind of got in this industry. Like
I'm very curious, and that was like kind of like
the premise of this podcast, right, It's like I like
to get to know people through like the movies that they.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Watched, the things that they loved, things like that.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
So I want to know, like what was that movie
for you that kind of changed your brain chemistry and
made you go like this is what I want to do.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
So here's a rub, bro, Like it wasn't a movie
that that changed anything for me, brocause like it was
a teacher telling me that I should make movies. Okay,
Because here's why, bro, Because my parents are movie people,
you know, like they so I grew up watching movies
before I could even before I had a choice. Yeah, yeah,
(14:33):
you know, so I was constantly you know, my earliest
memories with my parents involved movies. My parents were movie people,
so and I was I was researching this project and
I found out my grandmother who's ninety six, and my
grandfather who died surely shortly before, like right before I
(14:56):
was born. Since that they first date was to the movies. Okay,
you know, okay, And and it was funny with the story
she told me he was trying to make out with
her in the movie, and she told him, we can
do that after I'm trying to.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So I come from a long line of cinema goers. Bro.
So like like it was such a part of my
life that that what really changed my thinking on it
was when when I had a teacher suggested I do it.
You know, that was that was when I that was
the that was the moment for me because because the
movies was like air for me.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Bro was this like high school? Like because college my
first year of I.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Was seventeen years old. My freshman year of college.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Did you know, like, what were you going to college for? Before?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Man, it was it was I was a football player,
so like I was around football scholarship. But but I
was there as my first college. I was there as
a chemistry major, okay, okay, and then uh and it
was actually tough bro with the labs and in football
practice hard. I had to switch. I know, I knew
I was not the switch and and and they dropped
(16:01):
the football program. So I got another scholarship to Sacramento State.
And when I went there, I made the switch to finance. Okay, okay, yeah,
but I took I took film classes as well, so
it was like, imagine me like a finance measurer, like
the film minor.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah yeah, yeah, okay, and that's uh, and correct me
if I'm wrong. But that's where you met Ludvig, right,
like you guys like now, I met him in grad school.
In grad school.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, So I finished that side State undergrad and then
got in the USC Film School for an m f
a program like a graduate program. Yeah, and I'm at
I'm at Luvic there.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Man, you'll been rocking ever since.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, we've been home since, man, Like we met, Yeah,
we met. He was he was living in a uh
in a in a frat house. It was a frat
on fred Road that got suspended for doing something crazy, okay,
And they opened up they their rooms for the semester
to graduate students. And one of my film uh school
(16:53):
buddies was in their name Ja knew from Tennessee and
Jay was living in there, and I went on over
to keep doing. Hey, Louvig was living in there. Okay,
you know that's how we met. Bro was he was
in the composing school, the film scoring school.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
That's that luck you were talking about her. That's the
luck he was talking about earlier.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Life changing, life changing.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
That's that's crazy. All right, We're gonna talk about some
centers real quick. But before we do that, the title
of the show get wrecked. Do you have a movie
that you could recommend me right now?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Come on, man, I really do this. I got a
thousand that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Give me like give me like, like, what do you
got to give me more than that?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (17:36):
What are you? What are you looking for?
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I'm looking for something. Give me, give me like a
genre film, like something, give me something sci fi.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I could just see like the roller decks like rolling
in his mind.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
It's gotta I'm gonna give you the original Solaris, the
original Slari.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, Okay, yeah, okay, write that down right now. Solaris
that on Netflix.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I don't know they got a criterion when I think, okay,
I'll read that if I have to. Sci Fi sci
fi man fi fi is tough because I've been I've
been away from it for a while. Yeah, like, yeah,
I've been away from it for a while.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Sci fi is kind of like it became sci fi
became like the lifeblood of the the international blockbuster like for.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
For yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, like like like so it's not that it's oversaturated
so much as like, yeah, it's very seen. Yes, you know,
me the record science fiction film to you that you
haven't seen, yeah, because because that because that tends to
be the blockbuster medium. You know what I'm saying, Like
(18:58):
for me to give you like a like like like
a less seen science fiction movie, because that's what I
want to rank. I'm not gonna wreck you someone. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
See, my my favorite film of all time is a
science fiction film.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
But like a lot well it's her, you know what
I'm saying. You know, like and like a lot of.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
People told me that, yeah, you know, you know what
I'm saying, and so like a lot of people see that,
like they don't necessarily clock sci fi because they think
sci fi is bigger than that.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
But it's a lot more subtle, right.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
So that's a movie felt big though.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah it did, it did, it did. Like some of
the shots the cinematography is like the blind Bro, Like.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I remember him sitting down in front of the screen
with that big oh yeah catching him and.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, man, dang, like you just put up there because
I remember that shot where he's like outside and you
see like the.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Owl like coming behind.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah. Yeah, and then it's like the video game scene
where like he's kind of like in the video game
and things startscussing him out, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
But yeah, all right, all.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Right, if if you if, if sci Fi is a
little harder than I just dump Ryan Cooper.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah I'm easily. Yeah, I get you this so large.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
But give me give me a romance stamp. I'm a
big romance guy.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Oh man, that's that's my ship. Oh ship romance? Like
what kind you want?
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Oh what kind do I want? Give me?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Like, give me like coming of age romance. I'm a
big coming coming.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
In too, Okay, yeah, coming to age romance.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
There goes the roller decks. Yeah, I can see it.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, you know you know what coming to age romance?
I like, is it in education?
Speaker 3 (20:41):
In education?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah? Okay, yeah, that's that's a very strong that that
one kind of gave that kind of introduced Carry mulliganto
the world.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Oh I love Carry Mulligan. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. I
was introduced with her with doctor who funny enough?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Oh yeah maybe maybe just maybe you before maybe before
maybe before doctor who? Maybe not maybe doctor who's before this?
I'm not a doctor who got yeah for me, and
education introduced me to it.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Okay, yeah that's on my list now yeah, yeah, my list.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
I mean I got I got, I got plenty of romances,
but I can give you I give you my favorite.
You know what I'm saying, Will do me a favor.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Text those to me when you got them and give
them a list, do it in an Excel sheet, whatever
you got to bro.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Like, look, I'll tell you another great one, bro Okay,
like like like, uh, have you seen Atlantics? Yeah? Okay,
so so Atlantics is I would recommend you that if
you haven't seen, I recommend you.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
That before I'm bold in this one.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Like that that that's also that's also a coming of
a romance with that that that is it that is
absolutely masterful.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Move masterfula for sure, for sure, I'll take it, give
it a watch, I'll rent it if I got to, Okay,
I'll put a review up on it, right, recommend it,
you know, all right, So I want to get more
into the centers, man, because, like I what I love
about all your movies and you let me know if
like I'm clocking this wrong, but like a lot of
them have this element of like parenthood and kind of
(22:06):
like you know, kids relationships with their parents, like you
know Creed obviously a donna is saying all of them right,
and so you have this element of like parenthood and
centers that has to do with like the father of
Smoking Stack. What is it about this theme that kind
of like attracts you to like making movies in this way.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, Like I think I think parenting is like the
fast track to personalize in the film. It's the first
relationship absolutely everybody ever has, you know, and it's the
first relationship that defines everybody. And there's a lot of
(22:47):
work done, you know, around human psychology that that that
you know, points to I think the obvious factor, but
that being the most important relationship, you know, put youre
like like for this one, that's definitely that's definitely a
big part of you. But it's also like it's also
not just like you know, you know, I always say
(23:09):
the twins relationship with their fathers is of all of
the father and son mom kid relationships in the movie,
that's the least important.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yes, absolutely, Like.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know, uh, I would say, sam resacship with his
father's probably more consequenttion than that one. And really like, uh,
you know, one of the twins self identified as a father.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I was I was just about to ask you that
because it smoke seems more of like your father than like,
you know, their father was. He's like the protective one,
over stacked. Yeah, and you know what I'm saying, I like,
how you know you have Sammy, who's you know, the
story opens with him and his father, like the big relationship.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, that's that's the more important one, I would say,
And like, you know, and the song.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Is, but as far as that, you know, like, sorry, father,
I lied to you, like you know, the truth was scary,
so I lied to you. Like I find it interesting
that you know, Sammy kind of like I don't want
to like spoil too much, you know, crat over here
trying to cover his ears, you know. But but I
feel like I feel like, you know, there's a choice
to be made where like you know, you have his
father who's a preacher, but then you have the sinners
(24:21):
to two brothers. Right, It's like he's choosing like which
like father figures to like follow the type of way,
you know, So I kind of like clock that because
you know, anytime there's like a fatherhood story, like I
always I'll tell people all the time when it comes
to fathers and stories like I'm already a puddle. I'm
already you know, totally Like I'm kind of like.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Sensitive, but I think everybody is. Man. Yeah, I was
reading something man recently about how we developed bro like
I'm a butcher man. Hopefully it's some folks, some some sciences,
anthropologies like at home listening to you listening to your bro.
But like you know, I used to always wonder, it's crazy.
(25:05):
I talked to Lucas about this too.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
You talk to Lucas conversation the same conversation we had
one convo. We had one real on convot a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
We've talked, you know, in passion, but but he was
he was talking about how because he just had a kid,
and he was talking about how weird it is, how
helpless we are like as as not just as a species,
but as babies, you know what I'm saying. And and
and that functionality of us is stri It's unique to
human beings in that how we evolved. Essentially, our brains
(25:37):
are massive, but but but we walk upright, so our
hips and arrow so so so we had to develop
in a way where women give birth to human children
way earlier than the night, the night than they would
if we were another type of mammal.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, okay, like like in relative to like that, Yeah, if.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
We if we were not, if we were not by
bi pedal, we could have wider hips so the baby
could could could could live for longer and utero before
before coming off because like most most animals, the baby,
the baby version of the animal is able to like
run around right, and the developed you look at like
(26:20):
a you know, like a a draft or horse fence.
You know what I'm you know what I'm saying, can
get up and go, you know what I'm saying, You know, uh,
human human babies are completely like completely defenseless. And and
it was this this this this paper I was reading
was making an argument that that that was that that
(26:43):
fact that that on some mom gives bar to a
human baby, that that baby is basically attached to him
and can't really do do anything kind of kind of
kind of hearts their effectiveness. They watch and they were
saying like that like that fact about us was was
(27:05):
was kind of like the the delineation of you know
what's thought of as being traditionally uh male you know,
go out and hunt and gathering, you know, for the
whole that whole quality you know what I'm saying, And
that aspect of us all being you know, no matter
(27:25):
how powerful you are, like you know, you be the
most powerful person on earth, you know, the head of
a country, in the military, or somebody houseless on the street,
we all came in this world helpless. You know, you know,
you know what I'm saying. And and uh, and we
had a relationship with these adults usually you know, you know,
(27:46):
you know what I'm saying that that that you know
and and and you come up you transition from being
physically helpless to mentally and emotionally published And what is
that relationship with these adults in your life that supposed
that you know, quote unquote look after you protect you,
you know, you know what I'm saying, and and be
the shield from the world and the and the prison
(28:06):
which through which is interpreted. So like I think that's
why when you anybody when they see a father's son
kid in the movie, you immediately going to an emotional state.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
You know what I'm saying, It's because it's it's because
of it's like share share reality, you know what I'm saying.
So it's a hack bro like for any storyteller, you know,
like like like at the root of of any of
these you know, stories and properties. You know, that's ship. Yeah,
you know what I mean. I don't know how many
times you're gonna see long Wolf and cub done. You
know what I'm saying. It's it's Mandalorian, it's logan because
(28:41):
it works, you know what I'm saying. Super dangerous guy
encounters a helpless baby, you know, you know what I'm saying.
And now and then the paternal kicks and now you know,
now you've got some Now you got some mistakes. Yeah,
now you know, you know that that aspect of it
for me, I mean, that's what it's all.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
The ball for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
All right, I want to quickly ask about this and
then get to the next center's question. But like in
terms of like staying on this tip of like like
children and like them looking up to like the adults
around their life. Like I clocked something in your two
Black Panther films is that both of those films end
with a child looking up at the current Black Panther
totally you know what I'm saying, Like you talked to
me about the psychology behind that, because like I really,
(29:24):
like you know, when I saw that for the first time,
I was like, this is the perfect way.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
To end this film.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Like you have this young black boy looking at his hero,
like you know what I'm saying, Like you had like
you know, T'Challa two in that movie looking up at Sure,
you know what I'm saying, So like, talk to me
about the like psychology between that between those two.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
And it's hard to shay ro because I'm removed from
making as Yeah, right, it's interesting because we found that
ending for the first Panther and for the second Panther.
We always knew that. I was always going to you know,
uh but but but yeah, like I think I think,
you know, and then looking towards the future absolutely, you know,
(30:08):
I think because because so much of you know, so
much of these movies are about that. Man, yeah, about that,
you know. Yeah, but it's also like like nostalgia, right,
you know, I meet, I meet, you know, like I've
just seen a critic of Chicago man. I man, and
(30:30):
uh he had a child shirt on. You know what
I'm saying, like like uh, knocking out the Klan. You
know what I'm saying his shirt. And the thing is
is like, you know, he's my age. You know, he
talked he's like I think he's forty, but like I'm
sure his first interaction with that character was when he
was a child, right, you know, you know what I'm saying.
So you have somebody who's you know, who's forty, like
(30:52):
like you know, and and a relationship with this character
goes back you know, thirty thirty years, right, you know,
you know saying and and and it's always about you know,
I think I think he's going to be a bigger
fan of that. There's somebody who met the character when
I was thirty, right, relationship is a little bit just
like it's always with those mythic characters. It's always about
(31:16):
like I think that the the the interaction of the youth,
you know, and and uh that the youth who who who?
Who grow up with this myth you know? You know
what I'm saying as a policy to those who who
discovery late in life.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, jumping back into center is something that
I wanted to talk to you at the junket, but
we didn't get the time to is. I loved that
there was almost a synergistic relationship, like a like a
synergy between uh Remick and the stacked with just the
whole black community there. Right, It's like you have the
(31:55):
Irish heritage and then the Black heritage, and I feel
like a lot of people don't necessarily talk about there's
a lot of similarities of what happened, you know what
I'm saying, Like the they're they're being stripped of like
their religion, their way of speaking, like everything. And so
I found it there again, not trying to spoil it
for you, girl, but I just found that the villain
(32:15):
was so complex in that way where he is someone
who on the surface you could look at him as
like a white man trying to tear everything down here.
But at the same time you're like, he's been through this,
you know what I'm saying, He understands this, and like
there's like almost like an altruistic.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Way at what tlying to do.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
You know, I love that that was put in the movie,
but you like, elaborate a little bit more for me
on like the wy Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, yeah, Like for me, the movie had to be
about blues music, and blues music is like a very
specific specifically the Delta blues music is a very specific
type of folk music. Yes, sir, you know it is
not the only type of folk music, you know what
I'm saying. And when you when you look at me
(33:00):
having a healing quality, you know, you know, there's a
reason why people who suffered the most tend to make
tend to have some of the most powerful music, you know,
like some of the more most infectious music, you know.
And and uh so I had all this in mind,
and and and when realizing this is gonna be a
vampire story and you know, a vampire movie, I should say,
(33:24):
and I wanted it to be like, you know, because
there's different types of vampire movie you have, like like.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
A Dust Till Dawn, which a lot of people here
of this movie too.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, you're rightfully so like like with Us till Dawn
that like that like that vampire that's a band of vampire.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Absolutely, you know, like it's not one leader they walk
into like the Dan and it's just yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
It's event you know, it's not one leader, which is
which is not to say that that's not awesome because
it's different, right, Like like what I was what I
was very I was very interesting was it was more
of a Salem's Salem's a lot type of uh design
to the vampires, where where where it starts with one yes,
(34:12):
you know, like and that one is is unique and
particularly designed for this story, you know, and it spreads.
I was interesting in the Master in the Master Vampire, yes, yes,
and like the type of conversations that that that that
that that character can have and and what perspective he
would have on this apartheid system place, you know, uh,
(34:36):
And I thought it would be ironic if he had
if you if it's not as first, it's not as
first rodeo, you know what I'm saying. I thought it
would be very interesting, if you know, because because the
first the first time he's described is like his idea. Man,
he's not what he seems, you know, you know what
I mean, Like the the choct out character is trying
to give somebody perspective on what they're dealing with, you know,
(34:58):
because this is a place where people are judged on
the surface, you know, this is a place where they
got signs if you know, a fish or dish, you know,
And that's confusing, like like you know, when you try
to when you try to, you know, we try to
divide humanity and you trying to sort them into into boxes.
You know, that's always that's always trouble, you know, you
(35:19):
know what I'm saying, Yeah, and uh and so so.
So they are looking at this guy. That's what he presents,
a thirty something year all white dude selling action. Okay, man,
this dude ist or yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yeah, yeah, he's coming to territory, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
And the thing is is like he's not he's.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Trying to break down those boxes. He's like trying to
create one.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah he's not racist at all. Yeah, I like but
but but but he's good. But but that but that's
what he's you know, that's what that's what people are
are viewing him as. And that to me was like
that's music especially exciting as a writer and as a
as a director, where where we could play with you know,
yeah I can I can throw you, I could throw
(36:01):
you a bunch of fastballs. And then I thought you
were slider. Yeah, I mean yeah, ultimate slider. You know,
you know, you know what I'm saying, Like because he
looks like he looks like one thing, you know, but
he's actually something different, so different that he identifies more
with the black people. Yeah. Yeah, No, that's he wants
to be with you, you know, you know what I'm saying,
that's where you want to you know, he wouldn't be
(36:25):
in that party, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Yeah, he was like, Oh I like this, Yeah, tell
of a party?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Like you're not joking, Yeah, that's like it's so complex
about us, Like get like and I like how you
took the conventions of the vampire.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Right.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
They're evil, they're like kind of like all consuming.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
They spread their evil and like kind of like you know,
what's the word, they assimilate the town. Right.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
But he's just just kind of.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Like I kind of want y'all to be with me
because y'all cool, Like you know what I'm saying, Like
I think, I think.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
We want people identifies with them.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
So I found that to be like one of the
most interesting parts of the movie. And I feel like
that's something that we all should be talking about, like
when it comes to this film, because like I said,
you you told me when we first started talking about this,
is that this is a movie with vampires in it. Yeah, right,
And like I didn't description after watching it. Yeah, I
told Jack as well. I said, after seeing your character,
this movie feels like like it uses the vampire conventions
(37:22):
to say something bigger, like obviously, like I'm sure you've
heard like all of this like before, Like you know,
you and Michael b has been like working with each
other like multiple times. We talked about this at the
junket and whatnot. But what I want to talk about is, like,
you know, just like I think personally, like your relationship
with Chadwick was just as strong, right, and like strong
(37:43):
as Mike. Yeah, was strong as you and Mike's Like
it was different, it was different, right, And I felt
that I remember going to San Diego Comic Con and
you revealed the first trailer for Wakana Forever yea, and
the way you spoke about Chadwick was so like it
was so revered and so full of love, like you know,
obviously like this is when we thought like he had, uh,
you know, another black panther on the way, Like this
was the beginning of like another kind of relationship between
(38:06):
you two, and so like my question to you is
it's just kind of like one, do you have any
like like standout memories of like working with him.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
Working with Chat Yeah, like yeah chat yeah bro. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Specifically you just just kind of like do you have
any moments like off of set, like you know, where
you guys are kind of not working. Yeah, when you're
not working, you're just hanging out and just kind of
getting to know the man.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, bro, Like I mean nothing that I could share, bro,
Like yeah good conscious Yeah, like because because he he uh,
when we when we were when we were link off sheet,
(38:51):
it would be life stuff, you know what I'm saying,
Like very heavy. I'll tell you this story, okay, because
this is this is one this is one many people
don't know. I'm not I've never talked about this one
of one of the last times we linked in person,
we went we went and got some food in l A.
(39:12):
And he it was like after the press tour and
and he was he was in really good spirits, feeling
good and bro, we just talked about everything bro, like
like like like life and and and where things was at.
His widow, Simon, is from the Bay Areas from Okay,
(39:36):
so you know, and it's and I live in the
base still, so he was we were talking about getting
together out there because he was you know, he's gonna
go up and she her family and stuff and and
towards the end of the conversation, so I started talking
to him about Panther two and and what the story
was going to be and and you know, I'm actually
(39:58):
walking through the hall the whole plot right right, and
he was he was fired up about it and you know,
really excited and was saying that that that you know,
we like the table the right way for that for
that type of story, right, And you know what happened,
what happened with him happened with him, you know, you know,
uh well known and and his his his producing partner
(40:20):
and screenwriting partner and you know best friend, this guy
named Logan Coles.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Uh. And I got to know Logan through through Chadwick
and Logan, I've gotten I've gotten closer his passion. When
I showed sim On the movie, I had to show
log In the movie and his wife too, you know,
like like this is what kind of hoever? You know?
And and and you know, Logan was, you know, obviously
obviously emotional. You know, we talked a little bit after
(40:49):
and and Bro, like some some months later, Bro, I
get a text from from from Logan Man and it's
a video of Chadwick and and and I opened it
up Man, and he and his child was in Mexico
at the at the pyramids to the the you know
(41:10):
big pyramids. Child was a lade martial artist and he's
doing all his workouts, you know. And you can hear
the Aztec flutes in the distance because because because that's
what they sell, the souvenirs. But it's him doing this,
you know. Uh. And this is before a videos, you
know what I'm saying. So if I if I saw today,
(41:33):
is this a and and and I hating back, I
said Logan, what is and he said and he said,
he said, no, I just realized today that that Childwick
took all of us on a trip to Mexico right
after you know, right after shortly after the film was
was was was done at the end of the press
tour and everything like that, and they had a great
time and he said, logo show while that was turning
(41:55):
the Pyramids, Childwick wanted to work out, you know, so
he just took that video. He said. He didn't realized
after watching a movie that he was practicing. You know,
he was out there getting ready for the script that
I taught him about, you know, you know what I'm saying.
So so he I told him about that, about that,
about the idea, and he took his he took his
folks on on a trip to Mexico City, right for him.
(42:15):
That was on vacation for him. He was prepping, yeah,
right right, So so wow, that's that's the type of
that's the type of guy he was. Man Like Logan
realized ship that to me, you know, video and him
in the you know, that's the closest thing I would
have you know, wow, that that initial script was.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Oh my god, that's insane. Like like you said that,
it's exactly what we talked about. The top of the pot.
Man it's like it's luck, it's destiny, it's kiss man.
It's just like you know, it's kind of like all
connected in a way, you know what I'm saying, And
like that's thank you for sharing that with me.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Man, I know, like that can't be easy.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Like yeah, you know, I never had the pleasure of
meeting in Catwick, but just from his like you know,
just from his vibe, like this dude just had.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Like a different if the type of party, bron Yeah,
that's what I'm saying, Like with him him, you know,
Mike and Mike and I grew up together, bro Shaut
I knew for a very brief moment in time like
like which like an Shane level of the impact right right,
you know, And yeah, man, shut nobody like that too.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Tell him, Okay, it's good. That's good to know.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
All right.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
I got two really quick questions and then we're and
then we're out of here. The first question is because
I've been meaning to ask you this for a minute,
Like obviously you've like played in multiple genres like sports,
like you know, drama, a superhero now or I heard
someone ask you if you was gonna do a musical,
and I was you know. I'm like, I'm like I
(43:46):
was like I was gonna ask him that, but like whatever,
I like, I could see you and b J and
like Keittrick La Marget together and doing something like that
like that would be rad. But since somebody already asked you,
I'm gonna ask you this because I know that Mike
is a fan. I know you're a fan. What do
you think about doing it an animated film but like
anime like.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Man like like, uh, I hope to live a long
time and do and do a lot of really cool
cool stuff in different genres like like so, so just
just full disclosure, bro, like I'm not I'm not the
anime guy, Mike is that you are you know? And
(44:23):
and my my, my, my knowledge of that, my knowledge
of that that uh, that space kind of begins and
ends with Dragon ball Z. Okay, okay, you know yeah
that's my get down bro. Like like like like like
I watched I watched One Piece a little bit, yes
(44:44):
I had. I was like, Okay, I know, I know
that's that's I know what that is. But I'm not,
I'm not. I'm not deep in there. And Mike, Mike's way, yeah,
he's like mi Waye and he goes to Japan you
know once a couple of years and got contacts out there.
I'm not that.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Guy, but that's what I like. I had a feeling,
like I had a feel you were like not like
deep into it, but like you know, I'm like, yeah,
you know, I feel like I feel like talented filmmakers
kind of like find a way, like like Brad Bird
what he did with like The Incredibles, and it went
on and did.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Love I love I love, I love anime, I love animated.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah, like like I got one and I'll make I
get to make an animated film.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
I'm all over that and I think I'll do it.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
I get you.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah, Like that world is so deep, especially like the
Black fan Yeah yeah yeah, and that world it's such
a it's such a like you know, I'm more likely
to do a documentary on.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Y'all, okay really to interview me for that, bro.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I just know how deep it is. But like but
like like at the same time, bro, like like there
was a time in my life when Dragon ball Z was.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Every everything that was that was That's like the entry
for like a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yeah, I was. That was the one for me, like
like in kind of and kind of in many in
many ways. Still it's still something.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
I think about right right right rights that impactful influence.
But you know what I say.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
The reason why I say this is because, like I've
seen you nerd out over a lot of different things. Yeah,
I like so I could see you going like all right,
I feel like doing this and like literally like going
off for a month to watch like a bunch of
different anime. I could see that for you, and I
can see like, don't do that. I could see like
be like I got.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
One of my one of my one of my storyboard
artists and my close friend of mine, we were working
on a comic book together for years, a guy named
Andrew Werta. Okay, I'm gonna see tomorrow at the l
A at the l A screening. Okay, get some story
wards on this movie. And he would show me. He
would show me Demon Slayer Okay, he got He got
(46:39):
me to watch like maybe I watched like maybe the
first three four episodes of that, and he would show me, Bro,
he would show me the clips of the fights.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah, Bro, when do I get to this episode.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
So and I'm like ship, you know, like you know,
you know my life is my life is Yeah, I
like you know, but but but bro, like I'm but
like like like animated movies.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Bro.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Yeah, man, I'm telling you like animated.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
TV show like bro, man like that is my like
this you ever seen this movie Pushing Boost the last week?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Bro?
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Talk about influences on this movie. This on this movie
right here, siners, Okay, that's a massive one. Think about
the villain death, Think about his definant feature, oh the eyes?
Yeah yeah, are you serious? Think about his demeanor? Are
you like like you know, you know how calm he
(47:37):
is and and you know, you know like all that
like like like that was you know I sent that
to Jack you know you know what I'm saying, Yeah
back in the morning. Yeah yeah. So like like like
I pulled from like you know, I pulled from like
my my my top board artist, bro, like like my
like my fucking guy doing. Louis Gonzales worked that picture
(47:59):
for like and Louie might have been a picture for
almost twenty years. Okay, head la dude, but he moved up.
He's been in the base so long that he basically
like a big dude in La Dude. His first movie.
He went to picture with Brad Bard. Yeah you know
he boarded the Iron Giants. You know what I'm saying,
Like he boarded that. Yeah, she brought it all the Incredibles,
(48:19):
he board it. Uh, he bought it for me on
what kind of forever? There's some concept for me on
the first pandemic boarded boarded a good seventy five eighty
percent of the centers, right, But like, yeah, bro, like
like like that format, I'm you know, like it's just
it's gonna happen sooner than sooner than than than than
(48:39):
than people might think.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Hey, okay, yeah, okay, Bro, I hope I hope to
see that happen. Man, Like I know you could do it,
and like, like animation is such a medium. But I'm
a big animation guy. So like like the minute I
hear that you're doing something like that, I'm hollering right on,
like whatever you need me to do, I'm there right
on whatever. Okay, last question is super quick on.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
Super easy one.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Yeah, are we friends?
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Like? Are we actually friends? I think I think so,
Like I.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Feel like I feel like, like, you know what I'm saying,
like I didn't want to jig stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
I just wanted to know real quick. I just wanted
that old care bro. You know people have that, Bro,
I'm telling you man.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
It was like I posted that video of That's just
chilling and I max man, like I feel like ever
since we met, we just always had like a cool vibe,
like we have to.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Get you from you from the bay.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
I'm from Compton and so like people people were like
in my comments, like are y'all friends? And I was like,
I don't know how to answer that, bro, Like I
don't want to say yes, he don't think so.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
I mean, you gotta keep you gotta keep the uh
the industry, the industry what you called it, bro? Uh
that that you gotta have. You got to keep enough
uh plausible deniability if I make some garbage.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
You know what I'm saying. No, off, Hey, that's the whole.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
They they show you corrupted.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
You know I got you.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yeah, but in a professional Disneys Yeah, absolutely absolutely, But
I will let you know that I'm proud of you're doing. Shoot, Bro,
I'm proud of you real talk like listen, like genuinely
speaking like like hey, the guy, Like I've already been
telling people this my favorite film of the year so far.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Real talk, Bro, I wanted you to know that.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Like the way we're talking about it, Bro, I'm hoping
you could tell like I want, like when this video
hits wide, I'm gonna break the ship down like.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
I'm talking like, we make it video after video video.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Bro. I love it. Man, it's y'alls now whatever whatever
we got the I mean, I love this movie. We
got the on it foot foot for you know, a
little a little more than a year and and somebody's
I've been trying to make this thing forever, know like
but but I mean, that's that's that's the gift in
the cursion. This game all belong to y'all. Yeah, you
do what you'll want. You know what I'm saying, I'm
take it.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
I'm gonna run with it like I got you.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
I got you.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Appreciate I appreciate you too, man. Thank you so much
for coming on the pot.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
All right, guys, if you want to catch this more
of this video, make sure you hit it up on
subsect for the full video.
Speaker 3 (51:01):
We'll be dropping clips on.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
YouTube, TikTok, Instagram reels. I'm sitting here with Ryan Coogler.
I'm straw hat, goofy Aka, Juju Green, your boy, your
movie guy, and make sure you catch us next time
when we talk about the next movie.
What's going on? I'm Ryan Coogler, right, a director of Sinners,
and you're on Get Wrecked with straw Had Goofy.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Wake up?
Speaker 3 (00:09):
Did you time to go to work? All right? Can
we talk about we go back in it?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Get it?
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Yeah? Wake up?
Speaker 4 (00:16):
I get it that get at that goal with everyone
saying I'm up next, it's time my father, the vocals
a goal that making that hit us so well that
my lad is a movie the way that that role
they saying them people, Baby, you know I'm making everybody
upset because we do best help we get rapped and
I know we gonna get bread, gonna get bread.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm gonna get breast cunning, get bread, gonna get.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Bread, bread.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Everybody?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
It shit boys, straw had Goofy, Juju Green. You're a
movie guy and you already know what it is. We
are here with the writer, director, producer of Centers, his
new films fifth film with Right with Michael B.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Jordan's Ryan Coogler. How are we doing? My guy?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Good bro, Happy to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm telling you I've been I've been here. I've been
telling everybody. This is uh, this is episode three years
in the making.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
It was three years ago, man, we first met on
that red carpet will kind of forever, and you know,
before we get started, I just I really have to
like take the time out to let you know, bro, man,
Like that moment changed the trajectory of like everything that
I've been doing, you know what I'm saying, Like it
started off with just a moment and me just wanted
to like let you know how much.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
I appreciate you your work, what you do for.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
The culture, and the fact that you were just so
welcoming and so open, so humble to like actually like
sit talk to me and find out who I was,
and you know, we were able to kind of like
build a relationship from that. Like it's meant the world
to me, Bro, Like it really has. Like for the
most part, you've, like I said, you've been inspiration to me.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
But I was just happy to like have that moment
with you. You know what I'm saying. I was just
happy to just like get that That's all I needed.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I appreciate you, Bro, I appreciate you sharing that man.
Congrat man. Of course, it's been amazing to see what
you're doing, Bro, And and y'all can't believe it's been
three years.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
It's been three years.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, I'm telling you, bro, you're the reason why this
podcast exists. To be honest, I'm pretty sure I told
you this before.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
But like like.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
That time where it was at the Missing Red Carpet,
like I'm not even gonna hold you, bro, Like I
was like not feeling it that day, Like I was
kind of tired. I was kind of like beating whatnot,
Like I think I just moved into a new spot
and I was there just kind of like you know,
see a movie, you know, kind of get out of
my head a little bit. And when you was there,
like you was the same way, like very caring, very kind,
like very humble, and you know, we were chopping it
(02:29):
up there and you asked me this question that was
like that really like in a way changed my brain chemistry.
Where you said, like, you know, you're making cool videos
and everything, but what are you trying to do with it?
And it wasn't like you were pressing me, but you
were like genuinely curious about that. Yeah, And like it
was that question that made me go, damn, like I
don't know what I'm doing with this like I am
just kind of like out here just making videos just
(02:49):
to make them. But like if I want to like
create something out of it, what am I doing?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
So like I sat there and I thought about it
for a long long time.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
And so that's when I was like, yo, like you know,
a podcast will be really cool, like you love yapping
about film and yapping about the people who make it.
And you know, once we started getting that ball rolling,
I texted you. I said, hey, you're the reason why
this whole thing exists, Like I would love it if
you could be on and once again you came through
it said hey, whatever happens, we're gonna make this happen.
Like here's some information and now we're here, like you
(03:20):
know what I'm saying later, Like I really appreciate you, man, Like.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
That's nice, big bro. I mean like it's always you
know that the reality is man, one story like that
how you justly shared how you got to the decision
to make something happen and now and now it is. Yeah,
(03:46):
people gonna take this one and uh listen at home,
you know. And I think that podcasts are interesting because
you know, it's radio essentially. Yeah, but but it's radio
on demand, like somebody made a choice to the press
play as opposed to you know, passively having it on
(04:10):
and listening. You know, I think a lot of people
gonna listen to it. That's how the place maybe you
was at, you know, like you just described at that
you know that at that premiere, Uh who was at
the Alamo?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Wasn't we uh that the red carpet for a black panther?
Speaker 1 (04:26):
No? No, no for mission? Yeah. Yeah. And I think, like
you know, people, I listen to podcasts when I'm in
that zone that's actually wan I go to, like like
like if if it's if I'm feeling contemplative about something specific,
you know what I mean, I throw a podcast on
and I think that your story is going to be
(04:47):
got more stories people where people gonna be at home
thinking listening here that Oh yeah, man, when Juju said
he was going through he had to decide to do
to do, you know man? And and and that's that's
what I think is, Uh, it's so awesome of a body, bro.
You're going to influence people. Probably you might not ever.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Meet, you know what I'm saying, at least at least
you get to tell me you know exactly and I'm
happy to be here telling it to you know what
I'm saying, Like it's come true.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
It's powerful man.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Man.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
But like something something I wanted to like open this
podcast up with you about is like, you know, not
everybody gets that opportunity, right, Like, not everybody gets to
meet the people that inspires them and get to create
something off of that. Usually it's kind of like it
happens like out there somewhere and then hopefully they'll meet.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Somewhere down the line.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But it's also very rare that like the person you
know that it's the whole thing, like don't meet your
heroes type of thing. It's like very rare when you do,
like they're exactly what they've been told and that is advertised.
Ye I want to know, like with you, I just
joked about it, and I keep joking about this. You
are an extremely humble dude, despite the fact that like
you're so talented and you're so like like what you
do for the culture is like undeniable, And I want
(05:52):
to know, like, where does that humbleness come from? Like
where does that begin for you?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah? Uh man, humility, bro, It's one of those concepts
that that I struggle with in terms of like understanding it.
You know what I'm saying, Like I use the I
use the vibe, but but it's it's such a versative,
versatile word, bro, Like what what what? What? What I
(06:23):
try to do for myself? It is maintaining perspective, you know, constantly,
and it's a survival tactic for me. Uh it helps
my mental health and it helps, I think, protect me
from from from from losing that perspective. Uh if that
(06:49):
makes sense Because I work in a in a in
a in a craft, and in a business surrounding that
craft where you know what I make. It has to
work for a lot of people, you know what I'm saying,
Like it has to. It has to you know, when
(07:10):
I tell a story, it can't just work for people
who came up.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Like I came up right right right, or or it
can't just work for people in a position and I'm
in right now. It's gotta work for effectively every position,
you know. You know what I'm saying, It's gotta work
for every type of person who came up, every type
of way.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
You know, you know what I'm saying, Like in and
my ability to to to make things, uh that can
work for people who had that perspective. You know that
that that is the full extent of my usefulness at
my job. You know what I'm saying that at the
moment I make something that don't connect, you know, I'm done,
(07:50):
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Like and and.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So that like like I like I have to to
to to uh actively maintain that perspective that the issue
comes with. You know, this is an industry where uh
I found entertainment, where where it's a lot to be
(08:17):
gained from people building you up and tearing you down.
You know, like like you either way it's well yeah
man like like like and it's very dehumanizing. It's not personal,
you know what I'm saying, Like like fans, you got
you got the life going. And it's people they might say,
man like uh uh uh hey man he he man
(08:39):
he man. Cougar is awesome. Right, but if you watch
that long enough, you'll get somebody's gonna say say, when
I do.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
It, such, he's the worst, you know, you know you
know what I mean, Like I read the conversation, you
see it all right.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Right, So like and the thing is is like one
of those things you read it makes you feel good,
feel good? One of them things you read it makes
you feel awful? Which one of those things is true?
The truth? The truth is is that neither one.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Of these people know me, Like we were just talking
about that.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
That's the reality. You know, you know what I'm saying.
It just like maintaining that perspective, you know, like I
can engage with that and a much healthier situation. You know,
you know what I'm saying, Like like if I if
I'm uh not practicing uh the craft of keeping myself
(09:38):
in reality walking on to feet on the ground and
knowing that I put my claws on just like everybody else.
I got good days and bad days, just like everybody else.
You know, you know what I'm saying, Like I got
days where where I'm feeling it like everyone else. I
got days where I'm not feeling it like everybody else.
You know what I'm saying. And I'm in a position
as a product of of of me and my work
(10:00):
ethic partially but also probably of a lot of show
I had no control over.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm saying here this business like
involves a lot of love too.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, It's almost man, I had George Lucas tell me
it's almost entirely luck, you know, like like like I
had him tell me bro that that him and all
his colleagues, you know, who have been referred to about
many names and a lot of film literature. They call
it the film school bratches, the first guys to go
(10:32):
to film school for college and then make it, you know, uh,
the couple of the Scorchet and uh, you know, the
Spielbergs birds, you know, like like his contemporary and he shaid,
the number one reason that we know who they are
today is because of their age and the time that
they were born, and the fact that they came of
age at the time all of the the other filmmakers
(10:55):
were passing away.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Right right, right right right, So it was.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
It was the loss of a workforce that was so
extreme that they looked to the young guy. They started
giving them jobs like that. And he said, that's that's
how we makes a lot of sense, you know, like
and he said, he told me, look at my face,
said that was it. It was not that we were
so great or that we were so smart.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It was just a chance. It was like it was, it.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Was it was a chance. When they were born you.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Know, you know, yeah, you know it was almost like
I might as well, like this is who was here.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Might as well you know, that was that was how
that was how it happened for them, you know. And
and and it's not to take away from the work
ethic and it was always there and all that, but
he was saying they could have done all of that.
And if those filmmakers I was that didn't age out,
you know, they would have been something had.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
A different story. Like how many great filmmakers are like that?
Like we praised that, like not a lot of people
know about or like don't get the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
It's a lot, it's a lot that never never got
that shot. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean that
that Sally would never hear. So so I keep all
of that in perspective, bro. Like so that for me
is like you know, if you want to call humility,
you know, like like like like for me, it's it's
me yah, maintaining perspective of reality.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Bro.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm product of a lot of people supporting me.
I'm product of timing you know, you know what I'm saying.
I'm product of uh uh uh folks believing in me.
(12:33):
You know, and and I work in a business where
that's that's like incredibly collaborative. You know, I'm only as
good as the people who say, yes, yeah, I got
something I want. Does that makes sense?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So it makes perfect?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
So yeah, bro, So I can't walk around here like they.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Give you the ship, like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, I mean bro, Like honestly, like I posted that
video of us chilling out an IMAX and like people
were just like rocked by your humility and like your realness,
and you know, I think everything you just say right
now just kind of like keeping everything in perspective, you
know what I'm saying, Like I you know, I struggle
with that for years, like when I got into this,
because you know, it happened so quick and it took
(13:13):
me a minute to like not go after people who
always have something to say about me and have to
realize that whatever people have to say about me, it
don't matter to me.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
You know, it's.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You know what I'm saying, And it's like, at the
end of the day, the truth is whether it's good
or bad. Like you don't know me, you know what
I'm saying, and like we know what the truth lies.
Behind like who we are.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
So I'm happy to hear you saying that because like
I've been kind of going through that as like a
personal journey of just kind of like let myself be
the villain in somebody else's story because everybody got.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Their own story all has nothing to do with you.
You're a side character.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So I find that very fascinating, bro, Like I really do,
but like to take it like back, you know, even
before like you kind of got in this industry. Like
I'm very curious, and that was like kind of like
the premise of this podcast, right, It's like I like
to get to know people through like the movies that they.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Watched, the things that they loved, things like that.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
So I want to know, like what was that movie
for you that kind of changed your brain chemistry and
made you go like this is what I want to do.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
So here's a rub, bro, Like it wasn't a movie
that that changed anything for me, brocause like it was
a teacher telling me that I should make movies. Okay,
Because here's why, bro, Because my parents are movie people,
you know, like they so I grew up watching movies
before I could even before I had a choice. Yeah, yeah,
(14:33):
you know, so I was constantly you know, my earliest
memories with my parents involved movies. My parents were movie people,
so and I was I was researching this project and
I found out my grandmother who's ninety six, and my
grandfather who died surely shortly before, like right before I
(14:56):
was born. Since that they first date was to the movies. Okay,
you know, okay, And and it was funny with the story
she told me he was trying to make out with
her in the movie, and she told him, we can
do that after I'm trying to.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So I come from a long line of cinema goers. Bro.
So like like it was such a part of my
life that that what really changed my thinking on it
was when when I had a teacher suggested I do it.
You know, that was that was when I that was
the that was the moment for me because because the
movies was like air for me.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Bro was this like high school? Like because college my
first year of I.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Was seventeen years old. My freshman year of college.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Did you know, like, what were you going to college for? Before?
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Man, it was it was I was a football player,
so like I was around football scholarship. But but I
was there as my first college. I was there as
a chemistry major, okay, okay, and then uh and it
was actually tough bro with the labs and in football
practice hard. I had to switch. I know, I knew
I was not the switch and and and they dropped
(16:01):
the football program. So I got another scholarship to Sacramento State.
And when I went there, I made the switch to finance. Okay, okay, yeah,
but I took I took film classes as well, so
it was like, imagine me like a finance measurer, like
the film minor.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah yeah, yeah, okay, and that's uh, and correct me
if I'm wrong. But that's where you met Ludvig, right,
like you guys like now, I met him in grad school.
In grad school.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah, So I finished that side State undergrad and then
got in the USC Film School for an m f
a program like a graduate program. Yeah, and I'm at
I'm at Luvic there.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Man, you'll been rocking ever since.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, we've been home since, man, Like we met, Yeah,
we met. He was he was living in a uh
in a in a frat house. It was a frat
on fred Road that got suspended for doing something crazy, okay,
And they opened up they their rooms for the semester
to graduate students. And one of my film uh school
(16:53):
buddies was in their name Ja knew from Tennessee and
Jay was living in there, and I went on over
to keep doing. Hey, Louvig was living in there. Okay,
you know that's how we met. Bro was he was
in the composing school, the film scoring school.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
That's that luck you were talking about her. That's the
luck he was talking about earlier.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Life changing, life changing.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
That's that's crazy. All right, We're gonna talk about some
centers real quick. But before we do that, the title
of the show get wrecked. Do you have a movie
that you could recommend me right now?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Come on, man, I really do this. I got a
thousand that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Give me like give me like, like, what do you
got to give me more than that?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (17:36):
What are you? What are you looking for?
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I'm looking for something. Give me, give me like a
genre film, like something, give me something sci fi.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
I could just see like the roller decks like rolling
in his mind.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
It's gotta I'm gonna give you the original Solaris, the
original Slari.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, Okay, yeah, okay, write that down right now. Solaris
that on Netflix.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I don't know they got a criterion when I think, okay,
I'll read that if I have to. Sci Fi sci
fi man fi fi is tough because I've been I've
been away from it for a while. Yeah, like, yeah,
I've been away from it for a while.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Sci fi is kind of like it became sci fi
became like the lifeblood of the the international blockbuster like for.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
For yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, like like like so it's not that it's oversaturated
so much as like, yeah, it's very seen. Yes, you know,
me the record science fiction film to you that you
haven't seen, yeah, because because that because that tends to
be the blockbuster medium. You know what I'm saying, Like
(18:58):
for me to give you like a like like like
a less seen science fiction movie, because that's what I
want to rank. I'm not gonna wreck you someone. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
See, my my favorite film of all time is a
science fiction film.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
But like a lot well it's her, you know what
I'm saying. You know, like and like a lot of.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
People told me that, yeah, you know, you know what
I'm saying, and so like a lot of people see that,
like they don't necessarily clock sci fi because they think
sci fi is bigger than that.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
But it's a lot more subtle, right.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
So that's a movie felt big though.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah it did, it did, it did. Like some of
the shots the cinematography is like the blind Bro, Like.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I remember him sitting down in front of the screen
with that big oh yeah catching him and.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, man, dang, like you just put up there because
I remember that shot where he's like outside and you
see like the.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Owl like coming behind.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah. Yeah, and then it's like the video game scene
where like he's kind of like in the video game
and things startscussing him out, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
But yeah, all right, all.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Right, if if you if, if sci Fi is a
little harder than I just dump Ryan Cooper.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah I'm easily. Yeah, I get you this so large.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
But give me give me a romance stamp. I'm a
big romance guy.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Oh man, that's that's my ship. Oh ship romance? Like
what kind you want?
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Oh what kind do I want? Give me?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Like, give me like coming of age romance. I'm a
big coming coming.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
In too, Okay, yeah, coming to age romance.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
There goes the roller decks. Yeah, I can see it.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, you know you know what coming to age romance?
I like, is it in education?
Speaker 3 (20:41):
In education?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah? Okay, yeah, that's that's a very strong that that
one kind of gave that kind of introduced Carry mulliganto
the world.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Oh I love Carry Mulligan. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. I
was introduced with her with doctor who funny enough?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Oh yeah maybe maybe just maybe you before maybe before
maybe before doctor who? Maybe not maybe doctor who's before this?
I'm not a doctor who got yeah for me, and
education introduced me to it.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Okay, yeah that's on my list now yeah, yeah, my list.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
I mean I got I got, I got plenty of romances,
but I can give you I give you my favorite.
You know what I'm saying, Will do me a favor.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Text those to me when you got them and give
them a list, do it in an Excel sheet, whatever
you got to bro.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Like, look, I'll tell you another great one, bro Okay,
like like like, uh, have you seen Atlantics? Yeah? Okay,
so so Atlantics is I would recommend you that if
you haven't seen, I recommend you.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
That before I'm bold in this one.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Like that that that's also that's also a coming of
a romance with that that that is it that is
absolutely masterful.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Move masterfula for sure, for sure, I'll take it, give
it a watch, I'll rent it if I got to, Okay,
I'll put a review up on it, right, recommend it,
you know, all right, So I want to get more
into the centers, man, because, like I what I love
about all your movies and you let me know if
like I'm clocking this wrong, but like a lot of
them have this element of like parenthood and kind of
(22:06):
like you know, kids relationships with their parents, like you
know Creed obviously a donna is saying all of them right,
and so you have this element of like parenthood and
centers that has to do with like the father of
Smoking Stack. What is it about this theme that kind
of like attracts you to like making movies in this way.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, Like I think I think parenting is like the
fast track to personalize in the film. It's the first
relationship absolutely everybody ever has, you know, and it's the
first relationship that defines everybody. And there's a lot of
(22:47):
work done, you know, around human psychology that that that
you know, points to I think the obvious factor, but
that being the most important relationship, you know, put youre
like like for this one, that's definitely that's definitely a
big part of you. But it's also like it's also
not just like you know, you know, I always say
(23:09):
the twins relationship with their fathers is of all of
the father and son mom kid relationships in the movie,
that's the least important.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yes, absolutely, Like.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know, uh, I would say, sam resacship with his
father's probably more consequenttion than that one. And really like, uh,
you know, one of the twins self identified as a father.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I was I was just about to ask you that
because it smoke seems more of like your father than like,
you know, their father was. He's like the protective one,
over stacked. Yeah, and you know what I'm saying, I like,
how you know you have Sammy, who's you know, the
story opens with him and his father, like the big relationship.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, that's that's the more important one, I would say,
And like, you know, and the song.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Is, but as far as that, you know, like, sorry, father,
I lied to you, like you know, the truth was scary,
so I lied to you. Like I find it interesting
that you know, Sammy kind of like I don't want
to like spoil too much, you know, crat over here
trying to cover his ears, you know. But but I
feel like I feel like, you know, there's a choice
to be made where like you know, you have his
father who's a preacher, but then you have the sinners
(24:21):
to two brothers. Right, It's like he's choosing like which
like father figures to like follow the type of way,
you know, So I kind of like clock that because
you know, anytime there's like a fatherhood story, like I
always I'll tell people all the time when it comes
to fathers and stories like I'm already a puddle. I'm
already you know, totally Like I'm kind of like.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Sensitive, but I think everybody is. Man. Yeah, I was
reading something man recently about how we developed bro like
I'm a butcher man. Hopefully it's some folks, some some sciences,
anthropologies like at home listening to you listening to your bro.
But like you know, I used to always wonder, it's crazy.
(25:05):
I talked to Lucas about this too.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
You talk to Lucas conversation the same conversation we had
one convo. We had one real on convot a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
We've talked, you know, in passion, but but he was
he was talking about how because he just had a kid,
and he was talking about how weird it is, how
helpless we are like as as not just as a species,
but as babies, you know what I'm saying. And and
and that functionality of us is stri It's unique to
human beings in that how we evolved. Essentially, our brains
(25:37):
are massive, but but but we walk upright, so our
hips and arrow so so so we had to develop
in a way where women give birth to human children
way earlier than the night, the night than they would
if we were another type of mammal.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, okay, like like in relative to like that, Yeah, if.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
We if we were not, if we were not by
bi pedal, we could have wider hips so the baby
could could could could live for longer and utero before
before coming off because like most most animals, the baby,
the baby version of the animal is able to like
run around right, and the developed you look at like
(26:20):
a you know, like a a draft or horse fence.
You know what I'm you know what I'm saying, can
get up and go, you know what I'm saying, You know, uh,
human human babies are completely like completely defenseless. And and
it was this this this this paper I was reading
was making an argument that that that was that that
(26:43):
fact that that on some mom gives bar to a
human baby, that that baby is basically attached to him
and can't really do do anything kind of kind of
kind of hearts their effectiveness. They watch and they were
saying like that like that fact about us was was
(27:05):
was kind of like the the delineation of you know
what's thought of as being traditionally uh male you know,
go out and hunt and gathering, you know, for the
whole that whole quality you know what I'm saying, And
that aspect of us all being you know, no matter
(27:25):
how powerful you are, like you know, you be the
most powerful person on earth, you know, the head of
a country, in the military, or somebody houseless on the street,
we all came in this world helpless. You know, you know,
you know what I'm saying. And and uh, and we
had a relationship with these adults usually you know, you know,
(27:46):
you know what I'm saying that that that you know
and and and you come up you transition from being
physically helpless to mentally and emotionally published And what is
that relationship with these adults in your life that supposed
that you know, quote unquote look after you protect you,
you know, you know what I'm saying, and and be
the shield from the world and the and the prison
(28:06):
which through which is interpreted. So like I think that's
why when you anybody when they see a father's son
kid in the movie, you immediately going to an emotional state.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
You know what I'm saying, It's because it's it's because
of it's like share share reality, you know what I'm saying.
So it's a hack bro like for any storyteller, you know,
like like like at the root of of any of
these you know, stories and properties. You know, that's ship. Yeah,
you know what I mean. I don't know how many
times you're gonna see long Wolf and cub done. You
know what I'm saying. It's it's Mandalorian, it's logan because
(28:41):
it works, you know what I'm saying. Super dangerous guy
encounters a helpless baby, you know, you know what I'm saying.
And now and then the paternal kicks and now you know,
now you've got some Now you got some mistakes. Yeah,
now you know, you know that that aspect of it
for me, I mean, that's what it's all.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
The ball for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
All right, I want to quickly ask about this and
then get to the next center's question. But like in
terms of like staying on this tip of like like
children and like them looking up to like the adults
around their life. Like I clocked something in your two
Black Panther films is that both of those films end
with a child looking up at the current Black Panther
totally you know what I'm saying, Like you talked to
me about the psychology behind that, because like I really,
(29:24):
like you know, when I saw that for the first time,
I was like, this is the perfect way.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
To end this film.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Like you have this young black boy looking at his hero,
like you know what I'm saying, Like you had like
you know, T'Challa two in that movie looking up at Sure,
you know what I'm saying, So like, talk to me
about the like psychology between that between those two.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
And it's hard to shay ro because I'm removed from
making as Yeah, right, it's interesting because we found that
ending for the first Panther and for the second Panther.
We always knew that. I was always going to you know,
uh but but but yeah, like I think I think,
you know, and then looking towards the future absolutely, you know,
(30:08):
I think because because so much of you know, so
much of these movies are about that. Man, yeah, about that,
you know. Yeah, but it's also like like nostalgia, right,
you know, I meet, I meet, you know, like I've
just seen a critic of Chicago man. I man, and
(30:30):
uh he had a child shirt on. You know what
I'm saying, like like uh, knocking out the Klan. You
know what I'm saying his shirt. And the thing is
is like, you know, he's my age. You know, he
talked he's like I think he's forty, but like I'm
sure his first interaction with that character was when he
was a child, right, you know, you know what I'm saying.
So you have somebody who's you know, who's forty, like
(30:52):
like you know, and and a relationship with this character
goes back you know, thirty thirty years, right, you know,
you know saying and and and it's always about you know,
I think I think he's going to be a bigger
fan of that. There's somebody who met the character when
I was thirty, right, relationship is a little bit just
like it's always with those mythic characters. It's always about
(31:16):
like I think that the the the interaction of the youth,
you know, and and uh that the youth who who who?
Who grow up with this myth you know? You know
what I'm saying as a policy to those who who
discovery late in life.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, jumping back into center is something that
I wanted to talk to you at the junket, but
we didn't get the time to is. I loved that
there was almost a synergistic relationship, like a like a
synergy between uh Remick and the stacked with just the
whole black community there. Right, It's like you have the
(31:55):
Irish heritage and then the Black heritage, and I feel
like a lot of people don't necessarily talk about there's
a lot of similarities of what happened, you know what
I'm saying, Like the they're they're being stripped of like
their religion, their way of speaking, like everything. And so
I found it there again, not trying to spoil it
for you, girl, but I just found that the villain
(32:15):
was so complex in that way where he is someone
who on the surface you could look at him as
like a white man trying to tear everything down here.
But at the same time you're like, he's been through this,
you know what I'm saying, He understands this, and like
there's like almost like an altruistic.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Way at what tlying to do.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
You know, I love that that was put in the movie,
but you like, elaborate a little bit more for me
on like the wy Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, yeah, Like for me, the movie had to be
about blues music, and blues music is like a very
specific specifically the Delta blues music is a very specific
type of folk music. Yes, sir, you know it is
not the only type of folk music, you know what
I'm saying. And when you when you look at me
(33:00):
having a healing quality, you know, you know, there's a
reason why people who suffered the most tend to make
tend to have some of the most powerful music, you know,
like some of the more most infectious music, you know.
And and uh so I had all this in mind,
and and and when realizing this is gonna be a
vampire story and you know, a vampire movie, I should say,
(33:24):
and I wanted it to be like, you know, because
there's different types of vampire movie you have, like like.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
A Dust Till Dawn, which a lot of people here
of this movie too.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, you're rightfully so like like with Us till Dawn
that like that like that vampire that's a band of vampire.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Absolutely, you know, like it's not one leader they walk
into like the Dan and it's just yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
It's event you know, it's not one leader, which is
which is not to say that that's not awesome because
it's different, right, Like like what I was what I
was very I was very interesting was it was more
of a Salem's Salem's a lot type of uh design
to the vampires, where where where it starts with one yes,
(34:12):
you know, like and that one is is unique and
particularly designed for this story, you know, and it spreads.
I was interesting in the Master in the Master Vampire, yes, yes,
and like the type of conversations that that that that
that that character can have and and what perspective he
would have on this apartheid system place, you know, uh,
(34:36):
And I thought it would be ironic if he had
if you if it's not as first, it's not as
first rodeo, you know what I'm saying. I thought it
would be very interesting, if you know, because because the
first the first time he's described is like his idea. Man,
he's not what he seems, you know, you know what
I mean, Like the the choct out character is trying
to give somebody perspective on what they're dealing with, you know,
(34:58):
because this is a place where people are judged on
the surface, you know, this is a place where they
got signs if you know, a fish or dish, you know,
And that's confusing, like like you know, when you try
to when you try to, you know, we try to
divide humanity and you trying to sort them into into boxes.
You know, that's always that's always trouble, you know, you
(35:19):
know what I'm saying, Yeah, and uh and so so.
So they are looking at this guy. That's what he presents,
a thirty something year all white dude selling action. Okay, man,
this dude ist or yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yeah, yeah, he's coming to territory, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
And the thing is is like he's not he's.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Trying to break down those boxes. He's like trying to
create one.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah he's not racist at all. Yeah, I like but
but but but he's good. But but that but that's
what he's you know, that's what that's what people are
are viewing him as. And that to me was like
that's music especially exciting as a writer and as a
as a director, where where we could play with you know,
yeah I can I can throw you, I could throw
(36:01):
you a bunch of fastballs. And then I thought you
were slider. Yeah, I mean yeah, ultimate slider. You know,
you know, you know what I'm saying, Like because he
looks like he looks like one thing, you know, but
he's actually something different, so different that he identifies more
with the black people. Yeah. Yeah, No, that's he wants
to be with you, you know, you know what I'm saying,
that's where you want to you know, he wouldn't be
(36:25):
in that party, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Yeah, he was like, Oh I like this, Yeah, tell
of a party?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Like you're not joking, Yeah, that's like it's so complex
about us, Like get like and I like how you
took the conventions of the vampire.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Right.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
They're evil, they're like kind of like all consuming.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
They spread their evil and like kind of like you know,
what's the word, they assimilate the town. Right.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
But he's just just kind of.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Like I kind of want y'all to be with me
because y'all cool, Like you know what I'm saying, Like
I think, I think.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
We want people identifies with them.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
So I found that to be like one of the
most interesting parts of the movie. And I feel like
that's something that we all should be talking about, like
when it comes to this film, because like I said,
you you told me when we first started talking about this,
is that this is a movie with vampires in it. Yeah, right,
And like I didn't description after watching it. Yeah, I
told Jack as well. I said, after seeing your character,
this movie feels like like it uses the vampire conventions
(37:22):
to say something bigger, like obviously, like I'm sure you've
heard like all of this like before, Like you know,
you and Michael b has been like working with each
other like multiple times. We talked about this at the
junket and whatnot. But what I want to talk about is, like,
you know, just like I think personally, like your relationship
with Chadwick was just as strong, right, and like strong
(37:43):
as Mike. Yeah, was strong as you and Mike's Like
it was different, it was different, right, And I felt
that I remember going to San Diego Comic Con and
you revealed the first trailer for Wakana Forever yea, and
the way you spoke about Chadwick was so like it
was so revered and so full of love, like you know,
obviously like this is when we thought like he had, uh,
you know, another black panther on the way, Like this
was the beginning of like another kind of relationship between
(38:06):
you two, and so like my question to you is
it's just kind of like one, do you have any
like like standout memories of like working with him.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
Working with Chat Yeah, like yeah chat yeah bro. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Specifically you just just kind of like do you have
any moments like off of set, like you know, where
you guys are kind of not working. Yeah, when you're
not working, you're just hanging out and just kind of
getting to know the man.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, bro, Like I mean nothing that I could share, bro,
Like yeah good conscious Yeah, like because because he he uh,
when we when we were when we were link off sheet,
(38:51):
it would be life stuff, you know what I'm saying,
Like very heavy. I'll tell you this story, okay, because
this is this is one this is one many people
don't know. I'm not I've never talked about this one
of one of the last times we linked in person,
we went we went and got some food in l A.
(39:12):
And he it was like after the press tour and
and he was he was in really good spirits, feeling
good and bro, we just talked about everything bro, like
like like like life and and and where things was at.
His widow, Simon, is from the Bay Areas from Okay,
(39:36):
so you know, and it's and I live in the
base still, so he was we were talking about getting
together out there because he was you know, he's gonna
go up and she her family and stuff and and
towards the end of the conversation, so I started talking
to him about Panther two and and what the story
was going to be and and you know, I'm actually
(39:58):
walking through the hall the whole plot right right, and
he was he was fired up about it and you know,
really excited and was saying that that that you know,
we like the table the right way for that for
that type of story, right, And you know what happened,
what happened with him happened with him, you know, you know,
uh well known and and his his his producing partner
(40:20):
and screenwriting partner and you know best friend, this guy
named Logan Coles.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Uh. And I got to know Logan through through Chadwick
and Logan, I've gotten I've gotten closer his passion. When
I showed sim On the movie, I had to show
log In the movie and his wife too, you know,
like like this is what kind of hoever? You know?
And and and you know, Logan was, you know, obviously
obviously emotional. You know, we talked a little bit after
(40:49):
and and Bro, like some some months later, Bro, I
get a text from from from Logan Man and it's
a video of Chadwick and and and I opened it
up Man, and he and his child was in Mexico
at the at the pyramids to the the you know
(41:10):
big pyramids. Child was a lade martial artist and he's
doing all his workouts, you know. And you can hear
the Aztec flutes in the distance because because because that's
what they sell, the souvenirs. But it's him doing this,
you know. Uh. And this is before a videos, you
know what I'm saying. So if I if I saw today,
(41:33):
is this a and and and I hating back, I
said Logan, what is and he said and he said,
he said, no, I just realized today that that Childwick
took all of us on a trip to Mexico right
after you know, right after shortly after the film was
was was was done at the end of the press
tour and everything like that, and they had a great
time and he said, logo show while that was turning
(41:55):
the Pyramids, Childwick wanted to work out, you know, so
he just took that video. He said. He didn't realized
after watching a movie that he was practicing. You know,
he was out there getting ready for the script that
I taught him about, you know, you know what I'm saying.
So so he I told him about that, about that,
about the idea, and he took his he took his
folks on on a trip to Mexico City, right for him.
(42:15):
That was on vacation for him. He was prepping, yeah,
right right, So so wow, that's that's the type of
that's the type of guy he was. Man Like Logan
realized ship that to me, you know, video and him
in the you know, that's the closest thing I would
have you know, wow, that that initial script was.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Oh my god, that's insane. Like like you said that,
it's exactly what we talked about. The top of the pot.
Man it's like it's luck, it's destiny, it's kiss man.
It's just like you know, it's kind of like all
connected in a way, you know what I'm saying, And
like that's thank you for sharing that with me.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
Man, I know, like that can't be easy.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Like yeah, you know, I never had the pleasure of
meeting in Catwick, but just from his like you know,
just from his vibe, like this dude just had.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Like a different if the type of party, bron Yeah,
that's what I'm saying, Like with him him, you know,
Mike and Mike and I grew up together, bro Shaut
I knew for a very brief moment in time like
like which like an Shane level of the impact right right,
you know, And yeah, man, shut nobody like that too.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Tell him, Okay, it's good. That's good to know.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
All right.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
I got two really quick questions and then we're and
then we're out of here. The first question is because
I've been meaning to ask you this for a minute,
Like obviously you've like played in multiple genres like sports,
like you know, drama, a superhero now or I heard
someone ask you if you was gonna do a musical,
and I was you know. I'm like, I'm like I
(43:46):
was like I was gonna ask him that, but like whatever,
I like, I could see you and b J and
like Keittrick La Marget together and doing something like that
like that would be rad. But since somebody already asked you,
I'm gonna ask you this because I know that Mike
is a fan. I know you're a fan. What do
you think about doing it an animated film but like
anime like.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Man like like, uh, I hope to live a long
time and do and do a lot of really cool
cool stuff in different genres like like so, so just
just full disclosure, bro, like I'm not I'm not the
anime guy, Mike is that you are you know? And
(44:23):
and my my, my, my knowledge of that, my knowledge
of that that uh, that space kind of begins and
ends with Dragon ball Z. Okay, okay, you know yeah
that's my get down bro. Like like like like like
I watched I watched One Piece a little bit, yes
(44:44):
I had. I was like, Okay, I know, I know
that's that's I know what that is. But I'm not,
I'm not. I'm not deep in there. And Mike, Mike's way, yeah,
he's like mi Waye and he goes to Japan you
know once a couple of years and got contacts out there.
I'm not that.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Guy, but that's what I like. I had a feeling,
like I had a feel you were like not like
deep into it, but like you know, I'm like, yeah,
you know, I feel like I feel like talented filmmakers
kind of like find a way, like like Brad Bird
what he did with like The Incredibles, and it went
on and did.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Love I love I love, I love anime, I love animated.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah, like like I got one and I'll make I
get to make an animated film.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
I'm all over that and I think I'll do it.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
I get you.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah, Like that world is so deep, especially like the
Black fan Yeah yeah yeah, and that world it's such
a it's such a like you know, I'm more likely
to do a documentary on.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Y'all, okay really to interview me for that, bro.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I just know how deep it is. But like but
like like at the same time, bro, like like there
was a time in my life when Dragon ball Z was.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Every everything that was that was That's like the entry
for like a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yeah, I was. That was the one for me, like
like in kind of and kind of in many in
many ways. Still it's still something.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
I think about right right right rights that impactful influence.
But you know what I say.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
The reason why I say this is because, like I've
seen you nerd out over a lot of different things. Yeah,
I like so I could see you going like all right,
I feel like doing this and like literally like going
off for a month to watch like a bunch of
different anime. I could see that for you, and I
can see like, don't do that. I could see like
be like I got.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
One of my one of my one of my storyboard
artists and my close friend of mine, we were working
on a comic book together for years, a guy named
Andrew Werta. Okay, I'm gonna see tomorrow at the l
A at the l A screening. Okay, get some story
wards on this movie. And he would show me. He
would show me Demon Slayer Okay, he got He got
(46:39):
me to watch like maybe I watched like maybe the
first three four episodes of that, and he would show me, Bro,
he would show me the clips of the fights.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah, Bro, when do I get to this episode.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
So and I'm like ship, you know, like you know,
you know my life is my life is Yeah, I
like you know, but but but bro, like I'm but
like like like animated movies.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Bro.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Yeah, man, I'm telling you like animated.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
TV show like bro, man like that is my like
this you ever seen this movie Pushing Boost the last week?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Bro?
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Talk about influences on this movie. This on this movie
right here, siners, Okay, that's a massive one. Think about
the villain death, Think about his definant feature, oh the eyes?
Yeah yeah, are you serious? Think about his demeanor? Are
you like like you know, you know how calm he
(47:37):
is and and you know, you know like all that
like like like that was you know I sent that
to Jack you know you know what I'm saying, Yeah
back in the morning. Yeah yeah. So like like like
I pulled from like you know, I pulled from like
my my my top board artist, bro, like like my
like my fucking guy doing. Louis Gonzales worked that picture
(47:59):
for like and Louie might have been a picture for
almost twenty years. Okay, head la dude, but he moved up.
He's been in the base so long that he basically
like a big dude in La Dude. His first movie.
He went to picture with Brad Bard. Yeah you know
he boarded the Iron Giants. You know what I'm saying,
Like he boarded that. Yeah, she brought it all the Incredibles,
(48:19):
he board it. Uh, he bought it for me on
what kind of forever? There's some concept for me on
the first pandemic boarded boarded a good seventy five eighty
percent of the centers, right, But like, yeah, bro, like
like like that format, I'm you know, like it's just
it's gonna happen sooner than sooner than than than than
(48:39):
than people might think.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Hey, okay, yeah, okay, Bro, I hope I hope to
see that happen. Man, Like I know you could do it,
and like, like animation is such a medium. But I'm
a big animation guy. So like like the minute I
hear that you're doing something like that, I'm hollering right on,
like whatever you need me to do, I'm there right
on whatever. Okay, last question is super quick on.
Speaker 3 (48:57):
Super easy one.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Yeah, are we friends?
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Like? Are we actually friends? I think I think so,
Like I.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Feel like I feel like, like, you know what I'm saying,
like I didn't want to jig stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
I just wanted to know real quick. I just wanted
that old care bro. You know people have that, Bro,
I'm telling you man.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
It was like I posted that video of That's just
chilling and I max man, like I feel like ever
since we met, we just always had like a cool vibe,
like we have to.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Get you from you from the bay.
Speaker 2 (49:28):
I'm from Compton and so like people people were like
in my comments, like are y'all friends? And I was like,
I don't know how to answer that, bro, Like I
don't want to say yes, he don't think so.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
I mean, you gotta keep you gotta keep the uh
the industry, the industry what you called it, bro? Uh
that that you gotta have. You got to keep enough
uh plausible deniability if I make some garbage.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
You know what I'm saying. No, off, Hey, that's the whole.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
They they show you corrupted.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
You know I got you.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yeah, but in a professional Disneys Yeah, absolutely absolutely, But
I will let you know that I'm proud of you're doing. Shoot, Bro,
I'm proud of you real talk like listen, like genuinely
speaking like like hey, the guy, Like I've already been
telling people this my favorite film of the year so far.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Real talk, Bro, I wanted you to know that.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Like the way we're talking about it, Bro, I'm hoping
you could tell like I want, like when this video
hits wide, I'm gonna break the ship down like.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
I'm talking like, we make it video after video video.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Bro. I love it. Man, it's y'alls now whatever whatever
we got the I mean, I love this movie. We
got the on it foot foot for you know, a
little a little more than a year and and somebody's
I've been trying to make this thing forever, know like
but but I mean, that's that's that's the gift in
the cursion. This game all belong to y'all. Yeah, you
do what you'll want. You know what I'm saying, I'm
take it.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
I'm gonna run with it like I got you.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
I got you.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Appreciate I appreciate you too, man. Thank you so much
for coming on the pot.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
All right, guys, if you want to catch this more
of this video, make sure you hit it up on
subsect for the full video.
Speaker 3 (51:01):
We'll be dropping clips on.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
YouTube, TikTok, Instagram reels. I'm sitting here with Ryan Coogler.
I'm straw hat, goofy Aka, Juju Green, your boy, your
movie guy, and make sure you catch us next time
when we talk about the next movie.
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