The Long Walk Director, Francis Lawrence, Recs The Pod

Listen to Francis Lawrence discuss what he calls his "favorite movie I've ever made." 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wake up?

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Did you time to go to work? All right? Can
we talk about we go back.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
In it and get it?

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yeah? Wa, go back in it?

Speaker 1 (00:09):
That get it?

Speaker 3 (00:10):
That goal with everyone's saying, I move next. It's not
my father, the vocals a goal that making that hit
us so ugy that my neighbor.

Speaker 4 (00:16):
Is a movie the way that that role they stand
the moody.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
But baby, you know I'm making everybody upset because we
the best. We get rat and I know we gonna
get bread.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
We gonna get bread, Gonna get bread, cunning get bread,
gonna get bread.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
What's going on? Everybody?

Speaker 5 (00:34):
It's your boy, Juju Green ak Straw had goofy, your
movie guy. And I'm sitting here with the director of
one of my favorite films of twenty twenty five, Francis
Lawrence of The Long Walk.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
How are we doing, man?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
I'm good, good, great talking to you.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
I'm I'm super excited to be talking to you.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Man.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
I feel like.

Speaker 5 (00:51):
My my life for a long time has just been
kind of like surrounded by films that you have done
and then kind of like coming to talk to you
about The Long Walk, which is, like I just said,
not trying to glaze or the kids would say it's
one of it's my one of my favorite films at
twenty twenty five, hands down, Barn definitely in my top ten.
Trying to think if it's in my top like five
to two to three, Like it's it's up.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
There, man.

Speaker 5 (01:13):
So like, I'm really appreciating talking to you right now.
What I really like to do on my show. The
show is called get Wrecked, and I like to talk
to actors, directors, people who make the things that we love, movies,
And I want to give you a chance to kind
of like let me get to know you a little
bit by your favorite films. So I have this question
that I had I ask all my guests, which what

(01:35):
is a movie that changed your brain chemistry? Could be
any type of movie, a movie that almost like made
you see the world differently, created the building blocks to
who Francis Lawrence as a person?

Speaker 3 (01:45):
Is what movie was that for you? Can?

Speaker 2 (01:49):
I I mean, can I say more than one?

Speaker 4 (01:50):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:51):
You could do more than one?

Speaker 4 (01:51):
And I just like give you little like baby steps.
I mean, I think I think the movie that made
me interested in the making of movies, which is you know,
probably a little bit of a cliche for people my age,
but it.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Was Star Wars.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
So seeing that movie that kind of opened my eyes
to movies in a way that you know, they hadn't.
I think I was six or seven when it came out,
which is also kind of crazy because Mark Hamill is
in The Long Walk, So to be working with Skywalker
when that movie was so important to me was was
a bit bonkers.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, so I will say, like that movie.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
For me, and then you know some of the Spielberg movies,
you know, et Raiders of the Lost Art, those kinds
of things as I was growing up.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
But I will say that, so my parents divorced.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
When I was fourteen, and I would spend you know,
two days a week or something with my dad, and
what we would do is we would either play go
play golf, which I suck at, or we'd go to
see movies, which meant I kind of through my teen
years saw everything. And maybe when I was like sixteen

(03:00):
or seventeen, there was a year I think it was
the same year. There was a year that I saw
Raising Arizona by the Coen Brothers, and I saw After
Hours by Martin Scorsese. And I mean, this is gonna
be weird because I don't make movies like this at all.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
But those two movies made me want to make movies.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
So even though I was interested in how movies were
made from a very young age, I never wanted to
really be a director until I saw those movies.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
And there was something about seeing those.

Speaker 4 (03:30):
Movies made me realize that movies can be and were
really an art form.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Right.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
It wasn't just movies as movies or you know, just
pure entertainment. I realized it was an art somehow. Those
two movies kind of opened my eyes to it, and
that's when I actually started to study it. And it
kind of lined up with a class that I had
in high school, this humanities class, and half the year

(03:59):
we studied movie and we were looking at you know,
Battleship tempkin and and clockwork orange and all these different things,
and I was kind of like having my eyes really
opened to cinema for the first time. And that's when
I applied to film school and decided I wanted to
to make movies as as an art form and as

(04:20):
a career, and I kind of went from there. Yeah,
but it was raising Arizona and after hours.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
I love that. See.

Speaker 5 (04:28):
I think I think when I asked this question, and
thank you for your answer. By the way, whenever I
asked this question, it's always funny how there's almost a
consensus of people saying I didn't understand movies. I used
to watch movies, it's just movies. But then like this
movie is what made me realize that this is an
art form. And I love how there's like a consensus
when it comes to that. I've said this on many

(04:48):
episodes of the show. You know, Spider Man two was
that for me, and you know, I think it's kind
of funny how you know a comic book film and
you know, one of the first comic book films of
its kind. Spider Man two was along with like the
original X Men, that kind of like book itself a
little more seriously, kind of like took the poppy popy
nature of the comic book medium and kind of made
it more accessible to the human, like to human nature.

(05:11):
And I just found it funny how because you know,
I saw the first Spider Man and it was great,
and I think it's also hilarious how like Spider Man
Wanted two, I had two different experiences with it where
I saw the first Spider Man. It's like, oh, Spider
Man's a live action person now and he's swinging.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
That's so cool.

Speaker 5 (05:24):
To where Spider Man two opened it up to what
does responsibility mean?

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Like what does it look like when a.

Speaker 5 (05:31):
Guy who is trying to have it all can't have
it all because he has to sacrifice? And that's kind
of it was the first movie that made me look
at my life and say, well, what am I going
to have to sacrifice as I get older and become
a man, so, you know, going to college and things
like that. That movie came out twenty four, so I
was twelve, so I was like, wow, I'm becoming a teenager,
I'm growing up. How am I going to balance all

(05:51):
these things? It looks really hard for Spider Man. How
am I going to deal with these as a as
a person on existing in the real world? And I
think the first movie that made me see kind of
like movies as an art form. Spider Man was two
was the first one where I saw it is like
more than a film, but as an art form. I
got to say, like Danny Boyle's slum Dog Millionaire that

(06:12):
I believe that came out in like two thousand and nine,
two thousand and eight and that was like the first
time where I saw a film is kind of like
like the techniques of it, like the way certain shots were,
and it made me see that.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yeah, that's what Raising Arizona and After Hours were for me,
is that I'm and I always have been a very
visual person. I think very visually also, like music wise,
I'm a music person, not a lyrics person, which is weird.
I always ask people that too, And I think it
was the visuals and the sort of techniques and just

(06:45):
going wow, I've never seen people make movies like this, right,
And that was the thing that like kind of knocked
my socks off and really understanding you know, shots and
composition and the energy and the way you move cameras
and the way you tell stories visually. That kind of

(07:05):
is what Raising Arizona and After Hours did.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
Yeah, I love how you actually connected the sor thematically
to something at twelve.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
I was actually gonna ask how old you were when
that happened, because that's impressive.

Speaker 5 (07:19):
Yeah, dude, Like I attached myself so hard to that film,
to the point where I was even obsessed with some
of the marketing that was happening for the film, right
and I remember very specifically there was this you know
how you know back in the day. You know, people
are watching YouTube more now and nowadays, but like back
in the day, you will watch TV and then a
trailer will come on a TV spot in the middle
of whatever you were watching. And I remember there was

(07:39):
this one trailer that really stuck out to me after
I had already seen the movie where you're seeing these
shots of kind of like Spider Man fighting Dot coc
and all these different types of things. But it was
kind of like the taglines that kept like popping out
at the screen and it kept saying things like responsibility, destiny,
like you know, wants, needs.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
And I found that very interesting. Is like I never
thought about Spider.

Speaker 5 (07:59):
Man in that way right after I already having seen
the movie. I was like, these are now words that
mean more to me after having already seen the movie, right,
And so that to attach myself to that film. I'm
still very obsessed with it to this day. I will
talk about it for hours with you. That's a whole
other episode of the podcast. But what I what I
love what you're saying right now is like you know,

(08:20):
when you when you watch a movie and something that
I have kind of like been more attuned to is
like a director's voices when it comes to directing a film,
and I noticed that a lot of directors have certain
ways of like speaking to the audience.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
I feel like Zach Kreger.

Speaker 5 (08:37):
I just saw Weapons very recently, and Zach Kregor has
a very unique voice in how he tells his stories.
The way he tells his story, it's very off kilter,
it's very unconventional for horror, and I just love the
way he has this very unique way of telling his story.
And I find with you like your voice when it
comes to like you, when you want to talk about
your filmography, where you want to talk about Constantine, you

(08:57):
want to talk about The Hunger Games, French as the
Long Walk. I am legend there's a bleakness that kind
of like permeates throughout all of your films, and that
bleakness makes me want to know you more.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Is like a person like.

Speaker 5 (09:10):
What is it about the exploring the darkest timelines of
humanity that kind of excites you? And does it excite you?
I would really like to know, like where does that
start for you?

Speaker 2 (09:20):
You know, it's interesting, It's like I wouldn't have.

Speaker 4 (09:24):
Originally, I'm not sure that I would have been able
to answer it. And somebody actually pointed it out to me,
and it was somebody who was working with me on
the Hunger Games, and I think we were making the
Mocking Jays and we started talking about it, and this
person sort of pinpointed and it kind of took this
outside voice for me to be able to kind of

(09:47):
cement what it was that appealed to me about the
stories that I work on is that I tend to
make movies about very solitary, lonely, isolated people. And it
doesn't mean that it's like it's every movie is I
am Legend and it's one character, but they are very lonely,
solitary people, sort of lonely souls. And I was like,

(10:10):
it was sort of this epiphany for me, and I
was like, you are right. I mean Constantine lonely soul,
Robert Neville and I am Legend lonely soul. I mean
even Rob Pattinson. You know, all those characters are lonely
people trying to sort of form bonds and water for elephants.
Catus is a lonely soul. I mean all these people,
I mean you look at mcgree's and garrity. You know,
they're trying to connect to their lonely, lonely souls, and

(10:34):
so I don't really know why. I think, you know,
maybe weirdly, and I'm sure you know, to friends and
family that you know this, they wouldn't want to hear this.
But I feel like I am kind of a lonely
person in a way, and so maybe that's you know,
and I think I mean that kind of existentially that

(10:55):
you know, I'm not like a religious person by any means,
and so I.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Feel like we are all weirdly.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
Kind of isolated in this world, and maybe that is
some sort of draw that I'm I'm I'm pulled toward
characters that are on verious solitary journeys because you know,
there's just certain kinds of stories that just aren't appealing
to me. And usually now, especially since it's been pointed out,

(11:22):
when something is appealing to me, I'm.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Like, oh, right, of course, it's a lone hurd.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
You know.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
It's like these these people leading various solitary, lonely existences, Like, okay,
that one's for me.

Speaker 5 (11:35):
Yeah, no, I got listen, I'm understanding it. One hundred percent.
It's something that and I feel like that's something that
the power of movies kind of like has the power
to do, which is kind of make you look inward
at yourself, whether you're watching or creating. It kind of
like makes you look at that mirror and say, oh, wow,
I didn't know this about myself, right, And I feel
like I gravitate a lot towards your films as well,
especially like I said, the Long Walk. I feel like

(11:57):
this is a big reason why I love this film
so much. It's because it does have kind of like solitary,
lonely characters just looking for some type of companionship or
just to walk with somebody, right exactly.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
I mean that's honestly one of the huge sort of
thematic elements of that movie that I love is the
sort of existent existential side of it, right, which is
the Lung Walk. You know, King wrote it, I think
for two reasons. One was an allegory for Vietnam, but
I always took it as sort of a life existential
life experience as well, right, that the long Walk is life, right,

(12:33):
and that we all are on some sort of a
long walk. And you know what, what do the sort
of moments of our life, mean, how do they add up?
Who do we spend our time with, What are the
sort of bonds that we create, you know, the sort
of camaraderie we may have with you know, a group
of people around us, and the sort of search and
the need need for that I think is really important

(12:56):
and that that's one of the things that really.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Drew me in.

Speaker 5 (12:58):
Yeah, Cooper said the same thing, because I pointed out
to him in an interview that we did, was that
this movie, to me, you know, kind of symbolizes like
the long walk towards death, which in a way, it's
funny that we say this because these are young men, right,
their lives should just be getting started, but they're taking
a walk that as soon as it starts, a lot

(13:19):
of them realize pretty quickly that they're not going to
make it out of this, which is a very kind.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
Of like dark thing to think about.

Speaker 5 (13:25):
But we were talking about this and he said, you know,
that's absolutely correct, but also exactly what you said. It's
an allegory for like life, Right, you're born into it,
you meet people along the way, like you make connections,
you make enemies, and then you die, right, And it's
sometimes it's unceremonious. Sometimes it's very quick and very sudden.
And I just kind of there's so many themes and

(13:46):
so many like metaphors and allegories that are working here
that I feel like make the concepts so simple, but
it's so much bigger when you look at it in Macro, right,
And so I just really love what you said there
about like it is just a metaphor for life. It's
very tragic, like as soon as the get go happens,
like because again you know that they're not going to
make it, there can.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
Only be but that's also but that's also life, right,
Like you know, we're I mean, And what's what's interesting
is that so Cooper and I because this scene near
the end of the movie, and we shot chronologically.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
So it was to the last three days of the
end of the movie.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
Cooper and I wrote that big speech that he gives
mcvree's before they walk into the city when it's just
the two of them are in the rain and they're
going under the bridge, and he starts talking about, you know,
walking toward his death and seeing all those guys die,
and and because we had gone through this whole experience together,
and with all these young guys and said goodbye to

(14:44):
them all as they all you know, you know, lost
their lives in the story and had to say goodbye
to the actors that we'd become friends with and all
of that. But yeah, it was a Sunday or something,
and we all got together for lunch and just started
talking about the themes and and there was a completely
different scene that was written. It was the same location,

(15:04):
different scene, but yeah, he and I decided we wanted
to change something and we kind of writ it together
on the back of like a napkin at this restaurant. Yeah,
but it was very cool, but it was all all
based around this stuff we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
That's incredible.

Speaker 5 (15:19):
Now, I do want to touch on something that you said,
and I'm looking to the left because I know I
have my Long Walk book somewhere here, like I don't
because I got the book in college, like I got
in in college, and I was obsessed with it ever since.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Then.

Speaker 5 (15:30):
We'll talk about that in a little bit, but I
want to like really hit on what you said of
like the film being shot chronologically, and I just have
a pretty pretty hilarious question because you know, the movie
is very grueling to watch, Like it got to the
point where I started feeling my knees start to buckle
and like move around the muscles, and I felt like
I was part of the walk with them. And it

(15:50):
feels very grueling for the actors. I heard, you guys
walk twelve miles a day on.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
The Yeah, probably at least I'm sure some days even more.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Oh my god, that's that's insane.

Speaker 5 (16:01):
But I just got to know is like, you know
their director of their captain, did you walk with them
or did you get in a car?

Speaker 2 (16:08):
I would walk. I'd walk half of the way.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
So basically once, like I said, once, the once the
gun goes off and the walk starts. These these guys
are walking every day in every location. And you know,
sometimes you have a seven eight page scene and you
know you're walking for that, So you could be walking
three quarters of a mile per take, right, per shake
and so. And we also had to build the production

(16:31):
in a in a really interesting way, which I've never
had to do because this whole movie is on the move.
I had to build a caravan, this moving caravan. So
you have the camera vehicles which are electric. You know,
you've obviously got your picture vehicles. But then then you
have the sound cart and video cart that's following the
camera cars, and then my cart was back there, so

(16:52):
it had the monitors for the cameras. So I'm like
traveling along and we're all moving in three miles an hour,
so it's all you know, accurate and to all get
up to speed. And so there was this whole moving caravan.
But then going back, I would walk back with everybody,
so it was riding so I could look at the
monitors and talk to the cinematographer and you know, through

(17:12):
headphones to the camera operators and things like that. But
then I would always walk back, usually with the actors,
so I walked half as much as most of the actors.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
But yeah, they walked a lot.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
I think they ended up walking, those who made it
to the end, probably three hundred plus miles over the
course of the movie.

Speaker 5 (17:33):
And I know throughout the movie there's literally markers for
how many miles that they're walking.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
Was those the real miles that you were.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
Clocking just about just about because I think I think
we measured I forget the exact number, but I think
we measured that by the end, it was over three
hundred miles and I forget the number. Now at the
end of the movie, it's like three hundred and thirty
some miles. I mean it was pretty close.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Yeah, oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 (17:55):
Yeah, except you know we did that over what thirty
five days or something and not over Yeah, that's four
or five days that the movie takes place in, so
you had some buffer there, yes, yes, but it was
still it was still a lot. But what was also
really interesting is that, you know, these are all young guys,
and you know, young men's minds, you know, form at

(18:17):
a different rate than other people. And you know, they
were all very gung ho. They were all super excited,
they all really liked the script. They're all ready to walk.
Then you know, thought it was going to be fun.
And then just like the characters who all thought they
could do it and could win, it would make and
you know, one week in and a heat wave and
walking you know anywhere between eight and let's say fifteen

(18:38):
miles a day, like then the reality sets in. They've
all got blisters, they're all sunburned, their joints hurt. You know,
there's a lot like in their shoes and what you know,
swearing about you know what shoes they chose to wear
in the costume fittings, like who chose you know, boots

(18:58):
that rub the wrong way versus sneak or whatever it is.
And I mean it really mirrored. And then they also
then they sort of hit that zone just like the
characters where the ones that are surviving are surviving and
they have gotten used to it, and it's and you
feel it in the movie, you know, you feel you
feel it with those guys.

Speaker 5 (19:19):
I think, I think that's so interesting, how because you know,
I asked both Cooper and David about this, like, you know,
what was your thought process once you're like one hundredth
mile in, you know, blisters are happening, you know, the
heat wave and everything. And he literally used the exact words,
you just lock in, right, And it's almost like an
athlete's way of saying getting into the zone.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
And it's something.

Speaker 5 (19:38):
It's also it's it's weird how the human body, when
you're in the middle of a task, a very like
physically demanding task, how it does hit a second gear
and your mind just kind of zeros in on what
you're doing and then it kind of just naturally goes
and as actors, you know, the name of the game
is like, you know, play per ten for all it
sits and purposes, But this is such a physically demand

(20:00):
ending type of movie and role that you're forced to
have that kind of like athlete's mentality of just locking
in when the stakes are like that higher to get
this movie done. And I feel like that's the benefit
of shooting this chronologically. I think you just answered my quest.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
Yeah, hundred percent. I mean one of the things that
we sort of tapped into. And this was also something
that was not in the book, but we added it.
And there was a documentary that we watched I think
I think it's called Just One Mile, and it's about
a real race in Tennessee that's one mile long, and
it's like I think it's a figure eight, and there's
three hundred plus feet of elevation gain and loss with

(20:33):
each mile, and you have twenty minutes to complete the mile,
and if you finish in under twenty minutes, you can
rest for the remainder of the twenty minutes and then
you go again, and the winner is the last one standing, right,
so you just keep doing it.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
It's a really long walk.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
It is. It's very similar in long walk note.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
I mean you just either get injured or you bow
out or whatever it is, or you don't finish in
the twenty minutes and you're out.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
You obviously aren't killed.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
Yeah, of course there's the guy who wins. It is
basically talks about the mindset. And he was an ex
Navy seal, and he was talking about the mindset of
like you have to get to a certain point of
pain in your body, whether it's joints, feet, blisters, whatever,
it is also pain psychologically that you know, you get delirious,

(21:19):
you get tired, you but but at a certain point,
he's like plateaus and if you can take it until
it hits this sort of plateau where you cannot actually
get any more tired, you can't actually be in any
more physical pain. I mean unless you like break a
leg or something right right then you're then you're like
good to go. And he had that kind of mindset

(21:41):
and he would set sort of these little mini goals.
And that was one of the things we worked into
the script of these guys, is the sort of the
just the setting of.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
The many the mini goals.

Speaker 5 (21:50):
Yeah, you know, the thing I kept thinking about when
I went when you were talking about kind of like
those mini goals and like the pain of plateauing and
the things of that sort. I keep thinking about the
scene where there is kind of like an incline that happens,
and then you know, I don't want to spoil it
too much, but there's a moment where the character is
already kind of in dire straits and this incline is
kind of like where you could tell that plateau is

(22:11):
about the hit and once he reaches it, he's good
to go. And it reminded me of again, I feel
like it's fun that we're talking about athletes in conjunction
with this, because Gilbert Arenez, who is a basketball player
who I loved watching on the Washington Wizards in like
the early two thousands, he was talking about recently, you know,
how he couldn't get over the hump of doing like

(22:31):
getting to a certain point in the game, and so
he started training with like an ex marine and how
they would run on the beach and it's the psychological
element is kind of like almost seventy to eighty percent
of the battle where he said that he's all we're
gonna do is we're gonna run to this house, right
we're gonna run to this blue house.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Once we hit this blue house, will stop.

Speaker 5 (22:49):
And so they're running, running, running, in like about an
hour of running, Like Gilbert's kind of looking for this house.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Where's his house?

Speaker 5 (22:55):
Where it's his house, And the more he didn't see
this house, the more his body started to kind of
like give out on him. Whereas like the ex marine
is still same pace, still going like not even phase
by it. And he says, the more you think about
the house, the more you think about that finish line,
the end goal, the worse it's going to get. Whereas
if you just focus on one step at a time,

(23:16):
running in the moment, getting over this step, this step,
this step then you have, then you'd be surprised how
far your body can eventually go.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
Right And yeah, well so yeah to see the seal
and the thing you're you're saying that exactly the thing
we tapped into this. The seal from that documentary was
talking about when he was training as a seal in
but most guys, and it was running on the beach.
You know, they basically you get wet, you're cold, they
roll you around in sand and then they tell you

(23:45):
to run and then they don't tell you how long
you're going to run. And he's like, that's when guys
would bail out and they ring the bell and they
quit because they cannot take it. They don't know what
the finish line is. And that's like just one mile.
It's like the long walk. You don't know where the
finish line is. And what he got in his head
is he goes, I know they're going to serve me breakfast,
they're gonna serve me lunch, they're gonna serve me dinner.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
So I would just get.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
In the mindset of like if I have to run
cold and wet and sandy until lunch, then I'll just
run into lunch. So he just created his unfinished line
as opposed to all the guys going like how long
are they going to make me run? Yeah, And that's
what we sort of we added to the script and
David actually gets that speech right, which is just like
we got to just make it to the next moment, right,

(24:30):
and our first our first goal is just going to
be getting through this hot day. Yeah, and just look
at these like many moments I listen, I'm gonna just
like say right now, like I think DJ's performance is
like an Oscar Worthy performance. I feel like he I
made a lot of references in previous interviews of this

(24:51):
film talking about like Shawshank Redemption, right, I feel like
it definitely has like a Shawshank field.

Speaker 5 (24:55):
Shawshank is one of the four movies I consider perfect,
the other three being heard your Name in ET you
Know you talk about Christine Spielberg Love, but Shawshank. I
love the relationship between Red and Andy, and I feel
like in this film it's a little bit of a
reverse where the Red character, you would say, DJ, you know, Peter, Peter,

(25:16):
he is the light and he's referred to it the light,
whereas Andy was referred to the light in Shawshank Redemption.
And I really love the speeches that he gives. I
really love his mannerisms. He just he's such a complex
character where you can tell that he and Garrity kind
of like have different upbringings when they kind of like
lay out where their upbringings are. And DJ, you would say,

(25:37):
comes from a very worse off like position, but that
allows him to show more grace and show more light
to people and more forgiveness and things of that sort.
And his perform I can ramble about this performance all day.
But I think it's just such a like nice, stalwart,
earnest and dynamic performance that I feel like a lot
of people should take recognition of one thing.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
I did a great job. I mean, he's a he's
an amazing actor. He's an amazing guy and an amazing actor.
It's interesting you're talking about the backstory, because you know,
the backstory was also something that Jat and I added.
It's a little different than the book, and I don't
want to say, but I will say not entirely, but
sort of thematically. I pulled it his backstory and the

(26:21):
sort of the idea of deciding I'm going to like
approach life with positivity aime came from an actor that
I worked with their personal life, and it was somebody
that told me a story about when they were younger
and making a decision to be positive, and it was
something that really stuck with me. And so when we

(26:42):
were sort of working on the characterization of mcree's, it
was something that I wanted to kind of bring in as.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
An element and I just thought it was interesting.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
I just like that idea of somebody that has a
darkness who decides they want to be positive and has
to work at it, yeah, everybody.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
And there's there's a real beauty in that.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
But there's also kind of just a really interesting truth
to the fact that, oh, there is that sort of
there is that darkness, there is that ast like, there
is that sort of possibility, right, like optimism and positivity
you know, sometimes is a choice, not just.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
You know your nature.

Speaker 5 (27:23):
Yeah, and I feel like we are, you know, as
human beings. I feel everyone's capable of succumbing to that, right.
And that's and especially in the dystopia like usually you
see in these dystopian things, walking Dead being one of
the biggest ones, there's always the conversation of where how
far are you willing to go? How dark are you
willing to get in order to survive in this world?
And then you know you're already fighting against this without

(27:46):
the idea of a competition where the last man standing
ends up winning everything that he could ever dream of.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
But in this movie, like you.

Speaker 5 (27:53):
Know, it's so different, it separates itself from the other
dystopian competition genres of film and books because these are
characters that are not out to get each other, they're
not out to deceive each other, They're they're there to
outlast for sure, but they're doing in a way that
still supports and uplifts because they understand that that's what's.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
Going to get them through.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Right.

Speaker 5 (28:17):
It reminds me of this quote, if you want to
go fast, you go alone. If you want to go far,
you go together, right, And they know that if any
one of them has a chance to win this, they're
going to need the help of each other to make
it through. And I feel like that's the most unique
thing about this story that this movie came well.

Speaker 4 (28:35):
One percent, and that that's one of the things that
hooked me from the very beginning when when I read it,
and that was there in King's you know, original material
and novel and the thing that really really hooked me.
I mean, I con see, yes, it is interesting and
anything that sort of gets the reader or an audience
member to sort of think, like, oh, what would I
do if I was in that character's position.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
But the truth is that that camarade.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
And the way these boys and young men support one
another was always the real motivation for me to.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Make this movie.

Speaker 5 (29:09):
And I'm so glad and I'm so glad you did
again like I said, Like I said, I read the
book in college and this it coincidentally coincided with the
release of the Hunger Games movies, right and so, and
I feel like that was kind of done on purpose
because again, on the surface, the concepts are very similar
dystopian competition, last person standing, those type of things. So
seeing that on the bookshelf right next to Mocking Jay as.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
It was like being released, makes perfect sense.

Speaker 5 (29:34):
Right But as you crack open the book and you
get further into the story, that's where the separations really
start to come. And so I didn't say this like
back then, but at CinemaCon this year when I heard
that this movie was being adapted, and you can go
look at this video where I literally was running out
of Caesar's Palace going holy shit, holy shit, holy shit,

(29:56):
the Long Walk movie is happening. When your name came
up that you we're going to be like headlining this
and directing this, I said, perfect that makes perfect fucking sense, right, like,
because you know, thinking about that college moment and thinking
about how I saw it right next to the Hunger
Games and seeing your movie with I think Catching Fires
like the best of that trilogy, when you hopped on
like you just took it to the whole next level.

(30:17):
I was like, if anyone's gonna bring the truth out
of this story, it's gonna be Francis Lawrence. And so
Lion's Get invited me to watch the movie by myself
in this theater, and I was just having this out
of body experience watching you fucking crush this thing, right,
And so it was really it was really cool to
kind of have all these things from twenty twelve to

(30:40):
like twenty thirteen just come back in this way. And
I just got to say, man, really appreciate you just
like taking this on and like bringing out like the
true like heart and just the just the just the
cinematic nature of this story, which I feel like everyone
should be like watching, right, So I just wanted to I.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
Really appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
Look, im, I'm you know, quite honestly, I'm really proud
of the movie. I mean, look, my sort of perception
of the things that I've done always changes over time
and changes once it's out in the world and you know,
either gets you know, people like it or don't, or
how much it gets shipped on obviously, you know, like changes.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
The way I feel about things.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
But you know, right now I have to say, it's
probably my favorite movie that I've made.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
And I think part of it is I'm so proud.

Speaker 4 (31:26):
Of the adaptation that JT did and how we collaborated,
and so happy with the cast. And it was a
great experience in the studio that they just supported the
intensity of the movie that it is, not having it
be squeaky clean and not trying to eg thirteen and

(31:49):
letting me cast you know, just real actors, like great
actors and not you know, casting based on like Instagram
followers and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
Yeah, and that's a real thing I've been hearing, like casting.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
Is like you know, it's like, especially the more money
you spend, people are like, well, I hope these people
have followings and you know, all this kind of stuff.
And the studio just were like, now, don't go out
and find the best actors, the people that you love,
and and I just think, you know, the guys all
just crushed it. I mean Cooper and David specifically, but
everybody and those sort of ten or twelve.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
You want to talk about Ben wall Man, he crushes it.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah. Yeah, and he's working with me on the Hungering HIMPS.

Speaker 5 (32:28):
Now, Yes, I saw that I saw that you guys
are a nice little relationship there.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Man Like, Yeah, on the.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
Show, he was actually just out here in Spain for
a little bit. You meet us again in a couple
of weeks.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:42):
I think I think that man star is like rising
in a big way because I had him on the
show for the Latest Karate Kid, and you know, he
just has kind of like in It's funny because he
has that quality of the action stars that I know
from like the nineties and two thousands, talk like the
Jackie chans and the State films, the people who can
like do their own stunts and kind of.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Like create a character.

Speaker 5 (33:04):
Uh, but unlike like a Jackie Channer or a Jason Statham,
I feel like his character acting is very underrated. Like
you hear his accent in this and he's kind of
like the wise cracking, like busting your balls type of character,
which I wasn't expecting from him. And when you add
into that, like his his physicality as an actor, like it,
you just you just get this this person, this persona

(33:27):
that I feel like a lot of people right now
are underrating, and so I'm really excited to see what
he brings to Like your Hunger Game films and what
type of what type of like sensibilities he brings to.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
That very very different.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
But what I will say and what I love, I
love when actors.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Want to act.

Speaker 4 (33:42):
Yes, I love when Like I don't like when actors
just want to be stars.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
I like when actors want to act.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
And Ben is an actor. I mean, so's David, and
so's Cooper and you know all of that. But what
I just love is like Ben, you know, because he's
not in the biggest role in the Hunger Games. I mean, people,
he's a real goal he's like a real character in
this but he's just like I read I read this book.
I love this character. I would love to be a
part of him, like yes, please, let's go. And he's

(34:12):
like he's you know, he's in it to act. He
was you know, this character had an appeal for him.
The motivations and what you know, people thought of this
character he really enjoyed and I just I love that.
But he's he's so talented. I mean, in The Long Walk,
his character Olsen, he was one of the last people

(34:35):
that we cast in the movie, and we were trying
all these different people and I started actually worrying that
we had to work on the character in the script.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Because people just weren't getting it.

Speaker 4 (34:47):
Everybody was like flat or it was forced and nobody
was getting it. And then all of a sudden Ben
came in and just killed it. I was like, okay,
there was nothing wrong with the characters, Like, yeah, was
the one who just got it and got the humor
and got the energy and got the attitude and the physicality.
And man, his death scene, what he did with that scene, yeah,

(35:15):
like yeah really, I mean, I mean he had everybody's
jaws on the floor when he brought that out because
he signed in a completely different way than I did.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
So when we first started, he was like, let me
try something.

Speaker 4 (35:25):
I was like okay, And the way he did it was,
I think just blew everybody away.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
So he's super talented.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
Yeah, he really is.

Speaker 5 (35:33):
He's a big centinophile too, right, Like I asked him
the same question that I asked you, and this man
had list upon list of movies to talk about. We
talked about Centers for an hour before we even started
the podcast. The man can like like he's an actor, right,
Like he knows his stuff. Yes, So I want to
kind of like jump out of the long walk for
a little bit. Talk a little bit about your career,

(35:54):
because I'm very interested of like where you've been and
like how that affects where you're at. And we talked
about kind of like you know, your your attraction to
like lonely characters, and you're returning to one of them
pretty soon with Constantine too. And funny enough, I was
doing my like little research and I looked at I
said Constantine Too. And the way Google makes it sound
like it came out already, like it even has like

(36:15):
a description for the movie already out.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
I was like, wait, did I do something?

Speaker 5 (36:19):
And it hasn't come out yet, And I'm really excited
because you know, you talked about, like you know, the
receptions to films, but I find I find it interesting
that the perception of films can change over time, right,
Like obviously Constantine wasn't met with the best reception, but
now it's developed this cult following to where people are
begging for a sequel. I want to ask you, like

(36:39):
in this world, because we know that Constantine is part
of like the DC Vertical universe, and we've gotten an
entire like universe that's died and come back, and now
Superman's been a big thing. It seems that you're returning
to this esthetic of Constantine that's way different than what
we know in the comics. Like you tell me, like,
how do you like feel about a coaching that in

(37:00):
this day and age where a movie like Superman, which
is also DC is like highly accurate and people are
praising it for it.

Speaker 4 (37:08):
I mean, so, so here's here's the thing. So I
made Constantine two thousand and three, came out two thousand
and five, was not met with the best sort of
critical sort of response. You know, made our money back
in the end, which was fun. So we sort of
like broke even. And it was back when ancillary markets

(37:28):
were like still worked, so I think it made some money,
which was good, and we always wanted to do it again,
to do a sequel because we all loved it. I
loved making it, Keanu loved making it. Akiva, who we
worked really closely with, the producer who didilation with.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
You know, loved making it. You know.

Speaker 4 (37:44):
We also got sort of saddled with in our rating,
even though we followed all the rules for PG. Thirteen,
So we were really wanted to make an R rated
version Constantine, and so we've been mulling and mulling and mulling,
and the problem is is that these characters, these Vertigo
characters and d C Dark characters have been kind of
passed around to different people, and d C as a

(38:06):
company has gone through numerous changes, and there's been all
these kind of you know, hurdles to get by, and
we finally got to a place where people have sort
of said, we'd be very interested in seeing what you
guys want to do.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
And so a Kiva and Keanu and.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
JJ who's now involved because he had the he had
the Constantine rights for a while, and he's a great
talented guy. So we are all sort of collaborating now
and we're and working on something and we have a
great idea and we're really excited.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
But it's our version of Constantine. This is not this
is not a.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
Thing that you know, we're not talking about how it
fits into some DC you know, synthetic universe. We are making,
you know, a sequel to the version of Constantine that
we made. So you know, obviously it's Keanu. We're not
recasting it and making and blonde and British, you know.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
And it's like coming back to.

Speaker 4 (39:10):
The character that people somehow now love and love so much,
you know, twenty two years ago. Yeah, but yeah, it's
like it's but what's interesting about it is because you know,
I just made the movie that I wanted to make
and Keanu, with Keanu and Aikiva, we made the movie

(39:31):
we wanted to make, and you know, it did what
it did, and then the perception has changed on it
over time, which is great. But it's weird to come
back twenty years later and we've actually talked about this
and our meetings about the script and about the movie
is to start thinking about, like, well, geez, you know,
it was this weird thing where like people didn't seem

(39:52):
to love it all that much, and now people seem
to love it, And what.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Is it they love about it?

Speaker 3 (39:56):
Right?

Speaker 4 (39:56):
And I mean to sort of go back and kind
of analyze and you know, but you can't do too
much of that. You kind of have to go, well,
what is it that we really loved about it?

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Like, what is it about the character?

Speaker 4 (40:07):
What is it about the tone, What is it about
the feel what is it about the humor and the
visuals and all of that. Again, So it's kind of
trying to sort of re embrace the kind of draw
and have me in the first place. That's the thing
we're really focusing on. But you know, if we do,
and hopefully we do get to make it, it's our

(40:27):
version of a Constantine too. It's not it's not part
of some other thing that has you know, shared characters.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
And things, and that's refreshing.

Speaker 5 (40:34):
Man.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
I feel like that's very refreshing. Where you know, I
feel I make this.

Speaker 5 (40:39):
I make this example all the time when I talk
about like the beginning of like the Marvel CEMC universe
and when DC was starting. There is where the Avengers
came out in twenty twelve, and then you had the
Dark Knight Rises coming out I believe in the same year, right,
and so immediately people were thinking, well, how is the
Dark Knight going to connect to the Man of Steel movie?
In this movie, I'm like, guys, Christopher Nolan starts Batman

(41:00):
begins in two thousand and five, right, Like the cinematic
universe didn't exist until two thousand and eight with Iron Man,
and that post credit scene was tacked on, right, there
was no thoughts of doing this thing. And I feel
like since that moment, everything that's even remotely based on
a comic book, is how does it connect to a
larger universe where you know, Constantine it was its own
self contained thing and the sequels now going to be

(41:21):
its own self contained scene within that universe, which is
very yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (41:25):
I'm I'm a believer that that that they can all
co exist, Like you can have your movies where the
characters kind of share and intermash and you know, crossover,
you know, you do certain stories, and then you can
also have these kind of one off pieces that aren't
part of it.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
I think, you know, like why does it all have
to be the same thing.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
We're having this conversation with the with the Batman right
now with Robert Pattison and Matt Reeves where they're saying, oh,
the Batman needs to go with David course with Dave's
good Superman, and I really hope they don't bridge those
two things off of what the fan things should happen,
Like we can have these two things exist and be
their own things, have their own tones, have their own universes,

(42:06):
and they don't have to always like like bump up.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Now that I've brought up Batman.

Speaker 5 (42:12):
And Superman, this will tie into another kind of like
movie that you've done, which are also developing a sequel
for I Am Legend and I Am Legend too. I
remember very specifically seeing in the theater the poster for
a Batman Superman cross Sober movie, and then years later
we actually got a Batman He's a Superman movie. Was

(42:33):
this something that you already knew was happening or were
you just kind of like manifesting this? And do you
feel responsible for Batman v.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
Superman?

Speaker 5 (42:41):
No?

Speaker 2 (42:41):
I don't. I don't. I don't feel responsible for it.
So the interesting thing is, and I'm going to get
some of this.

Speaker 4 (42:46):
Wrong because it's so long ago, but Akiva, who you know,
wrote the last couple drafts of Constantine, who is one
of the producers on that movie, and who wrote the
last you know, drafts of I Am Legend, and who
developed that. You know, he was the one when we
were making Constantine saying like, what do you want to
do next? And I said, I am Legend? And he
and I kind of came up with our our take

(43:08):
and took it to Will and got Will, and then
the three of us really came up with what is
im Legend? But Akiva had a deal at Warner Brothers
and was doing a lot, and he actually wrote a
Batman Superman movie. Oh okay, I remember for who this
is where I'm my it's going to get fuzzy. But
I remember he wrote one that wasn't happening, I think,

(43:29):
and didn't go anywhere. Obviously it didn't go anywhere that one,
but I don't remember this the state of it at
the time. But when we did that Time Square sequence,
he actually was the one that was like, you know,
it'd be fun if we just made up because we
were guessing, like what would these be if we made
that movie in two thousand and six, was coming out

(43:50):
in two thousand and seven, so we were, you know,
like what movies would have come out in two thousand
and seven that could be on you know, billboards and
Times Square and so, and it was a Warner Brothers movie,
so we could you know, got permission to do that.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Listen, you did it, bro like you and I feel
like you manifested that to happen. You called it like one. Uh,
I know, we only in.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
The gas prices.

Speaker 4 (44:11):
That's the I apologize to everybody for manifesting those guys.

Speaker 5 (44:17):
You are just like the Simpsons. Man, you need to chill.
Hopefully the long walk that we got to look forward to. Well,
thank you so much, Francis for talking to me about
the long walk and everything else. Man, it's been a pleasure, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Thank you. Great, great chatting with you.

Speaker 5 (44:29):
Nice chating with you too. I hope to see you
at the red carpet. All right, perfect, all right, man,
take care