October 17, 2024 • 53 mins
The Canning Stock Route is a must-do for the adventure traveller. It’s the longest stock route in the world, stretching over 1,700kms/ 1,056mls through the vast open spaces of the Gibson, Great Sandy and Tanami deserts between Halls Creek in the north and Wiluna in the south of Western Australia. Bruce Hodge, founder & President of Goway and Scott Duncan, VP of Technologies at Goway, and some mates, took on this amazing venture as a bucket list getaway.
Listen in as Scott recalls the rough and tough, primitive beauty, the deep skies, the challenges and the fond memories as he, Bruce and their buddies took on the world's longest stock route.
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(00:03):
Hey there everyone, I'm Don, Professor Goethe and welcome to the GoethePro Travel Talepodcast.
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(00:27):
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(00:49):
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Now today I'd like
Vice President of Technology and Operations.
But Scott has not always been the tech head.
(01:09):
He was once our Head of Product back in the day actually when I joined the company, whichis aging me and probably aging Scott even more.
Very much so.
Yeah, Scott was, as I Head of Product.
So how long have you been with GoA, Scott?
You're one of the longest serving employees that I
come over the dates for the years.
(01:29):
37 1987.
Okay.
And remember everyone out there that go away started in 1970.
So I think Carolyn Wepler's after you after, yeah.
Carolyn's our VP of direct sales.
Yeah.
So who's Pete?
think Pete Lacey, our CEO, sorry, CFO.
Pete's in front of us.
(01:49):
couple of years.
Yeah.
After Bruce and Claire, his wife are the longest serving.
So Scott's been with us for long time and played I guess for many hats.
knew ASA was introduced to you when you were product.
Yeah, so I mean I started off in the Groups department and then moved over to the productside.
(02:10):
So I think I was did product for over 20 years.
It was a long time ago.
Yeah, so VP product and marketing for forever.
21, 22 years.
Okay.
So in all that time so that I guess before we get into it the sort of focus of today'spodcast is The adventure spirit runs deep in the DNA of go away from the owner Bruce Hodge
(02:33):
Who's actually part of the story we're to talk about today with Scott, but Scott himself?
Is an adventure traveler as I am?
But the two little trips we can talk about today I'm gonna say put me to shame but had methinking about whether I'd be that adventurous well one for sure
Canning Stop Route, which we'll start with.
And the other one was a trip that Scott did to West Africa and not the usual suspects ofWest Africa, but we'll get into that one.
(02:58):
That one was really literally out there.
the Steading, sorry, Canning Stop Route is in Western Australia, in Australia.
understanding of it is that it was or is, is it still a functioning route that they movedstock to and from?
(03:18):
anymore.
So it is, it is historical route, which did what?
Do you know the background to it?
just a little history.
I'm obviously, I'm not an expert on it, but I think it actually started literallydiscussion started in the start of the 20th century.
So, cattlemen,
(03:41):
So basically in Western Australia, in the East Kimberleys and the West Kimberleys.
So those who own cattle, let's say in the West Kimberleys, would take their cattle down bythe sea down to Perth.
Right.
And those in the East couldn't go the sea route, so couldn't basically head to the coast.
(04:05):
hop on a ship and transport the cattle down that way to Perth where the market was.
They actually had a bit of a parasite believe it or not and they didn't want to put themon the ships because they figured that the parasite would actually survive the trip and
they wanted to arrived down there.
So anyways the guys, the cattlemen in the eastern
(04:29):
wanted to try and figure out how we get our cattle down to the Southern markets.
Yeah, to Perth, right?
Down to Perth.
So, cause they were pretty sure that if they did do it over land, that, you know, theissues that they had with parasites, the parasites wouldn't survive the trip.
And when the cattle got there, they'd be okay.
Cows would survive with the parasite or die.
So, anyways, I believe there was an expedition in the late 1800s that did what really isthe Canning stock route.
(04:59):
root.
couple of explorers, this is before Alfred Canning actually surveyed it.
But they'd more or less determined that it was not suitable to take cattle.
Anyways, I guess they kept on talking about it and they still thought, we'll go aboutsurveying the roots.
(05:20):
So anyways, Alfred Canning, I think it was about 1906, he and I'm not sure it
four or six other guys, some camels, some horses and so forth.
They basically surveyed the route.
It took them six months to go from Wailuna in the south up to Halls Creek in the north, 1,850 kilometers.
(05:46):
So obviously they were looking for water because they determined they were trying to findenough water in grazing areas to move
had a cattle on a trip.
So they're trying to find wells positioned reasonably spaced apart.
It was a day's travel or two days travel.
(06:08):
It's about 30 kilometers apart.
so anyways, they did that and he determined that they could make it happen so that theycould move cattle on it.
So I don't think it was until a couple of years later where they actually then started
working on the track.
So, right.
(06:28):
And I think I saw a figure, I think it was at that time there was canning himself, 30 men,something like 70 camels, four wagons.
So they actually carved a pathway.
Well, they, they, they knew where they wanted to go.
Okay.
so, so more to kind of line it up and they're kind of going from well to well.
Okay.
And, I think they started off with a hundred ton of, supplies and they, they started.
(06:55):
building out the, the wells as I went up.
building the, the well, heads and the troughs.
Now they also had, Aborigines with them to help them find the wells.
And I think they ended up, building 54 wells at that time.
I think there's only 51 right now, I believe.
(07:17):
the wells now still deliver water?
not all of them.
Not all of them.
So, so anyways,
They got it all built and then I think the first drove, like the drovers nicely tookhorses, then they moved cattle.
They took 42 horses down.
(07:40):
Fortunately only nine survived the trip.
wow.
Yeah.
So it has pretty harsh conditions.
Yeah, not kidding.
So they did start, I think in 1910, moving cattle.
Okay.
But I think between 1910 and even when it finished in 1959, I think there's only 37complete trips, somewhere in there, like in the 30s.
(08:07):
many trips are they?
That's all I meant.
Because obviously I know there was one stretch for about 20 years where they didn't evenreally move any cattle just because there was problems with aboriginals.
going through...
Traditional territory to this day.
as we did on our trip.
(08:28):
So there were some problems with that.
And one of the problems they actually had when they built these wells, quite differentthan what we actually experienced on our trip, they needed three men to basically crank
with the buckets and all that stuff to get the water up.
(08:48):
So because it was on a lot of aboriginal existing water, the aboriginals couldn't get thewater.
So they were dismantling them.
So they had to go back in and rebuild because let's say, so, so Wells being dug for waterand the aboriginal peoples were dismantling the wells.
So a lot of the water that they use were on existing aboriginal water holes.
(09:13):
Right.
But wouldn't the aboriginals want like take advantage of the fact that was accessiblewater?
Right.
But they built it so that you needed three men to crank the water up out of the hole.
So if you're a lone aboriginal, it's no good to you.
They couldn't get the water So they just dismantled it in protest?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And because some aboriginals are getting killed and even when we're on this, we do really,really careful when we're pulling water up because you're sitting,
(09:42):
right over top of this, this, this, this well hole in the ground.
Yeah.
You know, and you're cranking up, maybe you beside it or you're trying to pull, pull thebucket out to, move it to the side.
Right.
So, I mean, I was always kind of mindful looking down and it's like, well, just don't,don't fall in here.
I'm not sure I can get out, but, so really it was not that successful for moving cattle.
(10:03):
Yeah.
And a lot of work for little return.
Right.
And, and one of the little history, historical thing.
actually during World War II, they actually spent quite a bit of time working on the trackbecause the Australian government wasn't sure if with the invasion possibly coming from
the north on Australia, they wanted an evacuation route.
(10:25):
And it was actually going to be used to move Australians from the far north Australia downto the south.
A lot of people might realize that during the Second World War there was serious concernthat Japan would invade Australia, which was one of
Yeah.
Final goals to take Australia.
luckily they never got there.
They did bomb Darwin a few times, actually many times.
So that's, I didn't know that that's interesting.
(10:46):
So they're going to use it as an escape route.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so anyways, for the most part, you know, the track wasn't then used since, know, 1959.
it became kind of popular in the seventies and eighties.
There's a lot of adventurers who were riding bicycles or walking it.
all sorts of different types.
(11:07):
Okay.
Just to give context to that walking or writing it, how long is it?
The, the Kenning stock route, 1 ,850 kilometers.
Right.
And this is through some of the driest, harshest desert in the world.
Very, very harsh.
And I knew this anyway, but just based on the posts that you are leaving on your Facebookpage, it is like, there's not no one or anything else out there other than other
(11:32):
adventures.
either with you or going the opposite direction on the road.
So if you get lost or have a problem, you're in trouble.
If you don't have the backup that is.
You gotta be very, careful.
And I think the first vehicle that actually traversed the entire length of it from betweenWailuna and Hulse Creek was only in 1968 or 69.
(11:58):
Because the track is not really maintained.
Obviously it's just the vehicles traveling on it.
there any like literal signposts or it's very much a GPS journey?
It's a, it's, there are some signposts like still, so just kind of some tin cans, know,like canning stock route this way.
Yeah.
Right.
(12:19):
I actually took a picture of it.
came across at least one stop sign.
Okay.
So it was kind of, kind of unusual.
We didn't expect that.
The government's got to be there somewhere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So,
So anyways, you know, I had known, obviously, you know, went to uni in Australia many,many years ago.
(12:42):
Yeah, I was at James Cook University up in Townsville.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, yeah.
really?
What did you study?
Tourism?
Well, I was, it was industrial location analysis.
So really I was writing computer software in the early days of writing code.
And I based it on Mount Isa mines on the car refinery in towns for us to why.
(13:04):
Yeah.
To why, hang on.
So you started writing code way back when, and now you're, we don't write code anymore,but you're now in charge of our technology direction.
So I thought you sort of, what's the, the, the nice word you were sort of, you weremigrated into technology, but you actually sort of went back to where you
Educated on to a certain degree.
(13:25):
Yeah, it's a certain degree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, so I mean it's just But I So yeah, I was in Australia for almost two years.
Okay, finished my education there and So I spent a lot of time any free time I had off Ihad a motorcycle at the time I would just basically hop on on and just go wherever If I
(13:45):
had a summer or like a week or two week break, I would basically quite often wouldhitchhike
I think I've hitchhiked over 30 ,000 kilometres in Australia.
sat down one day and worked that out.
So I spent a lot of time in the outback.
Just to jump in here, just to clarify this too, you'll hear from the next story as well,but Scott has a liking for deserts.
(14:08):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I've always been pretty fascinated by deserts.
And I had heard of the Gun barrel highway, which is a fairly famous track in Australia.
And I'd heard about the Canning stock group, but I didn't know that much about it.
(14:29):
So how this trip came about actually started probably 25 years ago.
And the reason I say that, 20 or 25 years ago when I was in product,
We came across a company in Australia that was doing day trips to the Blue Mountains andthe Hunter Valley.
(14:53):
We used to call it back in those days, Australian Eco -Adventures, it's now AEA LuxuryTours.
And Don Rosenfeld was the owner and we started selling that.
any of our Sydney modules, you know, that went out to the blue mountains and hunter Valleywas on his, on his, on his vehicles.
(15:16):
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I've known Don for long, long time, right?
Anyways, kind of fast forward to last year.
and Bruce could maybe correct me if I'm wrong.
I, I think the conversation came up at, at ATE, which is an annual tourism conference.
to interject here, Bruce is the owner of the company who is, he's also,
an Aussie.
(15:36):
yep, just, Yeah.
So I think Don approached, approached Bruce to see if he maybe might want to do thecanning stock route.
Don was thinking about doing it.
had been a bucket list item for Don for over 30 years.
told me on the strip and, and, and really it was going to be at that time, it was going tobe,
(16:01):
Don and his two sons, Tyler and Dane, who did travel on the trip.
And it was going be Bruce and Adam.
And Bruce's son.
So, which made sense.
It was going to be a family thing and so forth.
adventure, Yeah, a father -son adventure, which would have been fantastic.
And then Adam.
(16:23):
became a father.
Yep, he did.
And the timing, which was obviously fantastic, but obviously the timing wasn't greatbecause it didn't really make sense to hop on this journey shortly after his son arriving.
So anyways, Bruce approached me, I guess because he knew I had a fascination for desertsand said, listen Scott, would you consider coming on this trip with me?
(16:45):
So I thought it
great opportunity.
I was very, fortunate to be asked and all that stuff.
I said, there's no way could turn that down.
I would be, I knew you and Pete and a whole bunch of others would be lining up.
Right.
So I thought if I don't take it, I know these guys will.
Right.
And I'll be really, really jealous when I hear, hear of their story and come back.
But, sorry, but I think this was last November.
(17:06):
think, from memory too, for those listening to Bruce, our own, he turned 80 last year.
And I believe this was again, as you say, Don, the other Don, me.
a bucket list idea and obviously since the company both respective companies been workingtogether for years Bruce and Donna are good mates as we say so it was yeah a bucket list
for Don I think it was presented at Bruce's birthday as a birthday gift to Bruce and ofcourse Adam at the time.
(17:34):
Bruce being very excited when he heard that at his party.
And then, yeah, as you say, one thing led to another and Adam couldn't make it for all theright reasons.
absolutely.
in.
Sun into the world.
So I just want to clarify one thing here too, is the canning stock route is not somethingGo Away sells or is a commercial venture out there something that hardcore venturers take
(17:57):
on on their own?
on their own will and such.
And I believe on that note that Don, I spoke to Bruce this morning actually about it, thatwe were going to have a chat and he mentioned that I think one of Don's sons is a part
-time chef or cook or they like to cook and the other son is a mechanic.
(18:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so basically, Don has a twin sons.
twins.
They're twins.
Tyler and Dane.
Tyler's the mechanic and he lives in Mandurah to south of Perth, about an hour south ofPerth.
And Dane, who actually works in the business but had a chef background.
(18:42):
Okay.
Okay.
And obviously we were all very, very spoiled, you know, with having actually both thoseguys on the trip, right?
Well, again, speaking to Bruce's point there, they're two good skillsets to have with you.
When you're in the middle of nowhere, you down, you got a mechanic and to eat well.
I understand you did eat very well.
Very, very well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(19:04):
So, I was Bruce and Dawn were at ATE, which was in Melbourne this year.
They flew out in the Perth.
I came by the middle East.
was in the Middle East for, a while and, they made my way down the Perth and we, we,caught up.
Tyler had been working on, so we had two vehicles, two Tyler Hilux.
Yeah.
These were drives.
(19:24):
purchased for the trip, I believe, and outfitted for the trip.
Because again, anyone listening, this is not something you just hop in your, but you'vereally got to be serious about your planning and prep and your backup and everything else
like that.
So these vehicles were purchased for and kitted out for this particular trip.
Yeah.
I think, I think Tyler worked on it for about six months.
(19:45):
really?
Yeah.
And they thought of everything.
mean, was, the vehicles were impressive.
In fact, I probably have more, more, more pictures of the vehicles than I do fromeverything else on the trip.
and, know, white one and a gray one and, yeah, they were, they were amazing.
But as you said, Don, you know, this, this is fairly hardcore.
(20:08):
you know, it's one of the top four wheel drive tracks on the planet.
And,
And I don't know if it would be the longest.
don't know on that, but you like I you're getting close to 2000 kilometers.
That's a long way.
But, so when we all kind of met up in Mandrum, there was still some more work being doneon the vehicles.
(20:32):
We then went out there and we basically had to prep, know, get fuel, get water, get food.
All the camping gear had been, was already prepped and all that stuff.
Well, between the five of us, Don and Bruce opted for the cots, okay?
(20:53):
And Tyler and Dan and I opted for the swags, okay?
is a naughty term for like a tent, right?
Yeah, well, I swagged when I was on the road as a tool that I had a swag.
So to me what it was, it's basically a mattress, like a foam mattress that rolls up intoa, like a big, I don't
So you just roll your bed out in the morning.
(21:14):
So you're basically sleeping on the ground.
Whereas you're saying Bruce and Dom were on cots, intense or outside intense?
No, no, no, but we, actually, the one vehicle had literally, almost a 180 degree wraparound the wrap around canopy.
Okay.
And sides all came down and zipped up.
They were all enclosed, right?
(21:35):
And, so, okay, I'm to jump around a bit here.
with the many bugs.
out there?
Flies.
Flies of course.
Yeah.
Company industry without a fly.
Yeah.
But nothing mosquitoes or anything like that.
No, didn't notice any mosquitoes.
Obviously we had all the first aid gear in case we ran into any snakes.
Okay.
(21:55):
So that's next question.
What wildlife did you come into contact with if anything, or you might've come intocontact?
Snakes, obviously you mentioned one.
Yeah.
So, I mean, to be perfectly honest,
Once again, like I've spent a lot of time in different parts of Australia, in differentparts of the Outback.
I guess I was thinking that when, you know, once we're on the track and so forth, we'regoing to see lots of kangaroo.
(22:17):
knew we would see lots of camels because obviously the camels were brought in to open upthat part of the world.
Those camels were originally brought in from the middle East.
Now they're actually exported from Australia back to the Middle East because they're sohardy.
Yeah, well hardy and they were left.
So to your point, they were brought in particularly to open up the telegraph from Adelaideup to Darwin.
(22:39):
That was where they use a lot.
And then when that was done, they were let go, just let to run, run wild.
So they're, their bloodline, I wouldn't say it's pure, but it's, it's very good bloodline.
And as you say, cause they're surviving in the desert, they're very, very hardy.
So they're exported from Australia now back to the middle East for breeding and forracing.
Yeah.
(22:59):
Yeah.
So I think the biggest surprise,
was the lack of kangaroos.
That's why was sort leading that question because I wouldn't expect cattle or sheep unlessthey were being pushed because you're in the desert and it's very, very barren and tough.
But I would have expected lizards as some description and I would have thought kangaroosor maybe even dingoes.
(23:21):
We heard dingoes.
you heard dingoes?
Heard dingoes, yeah.
They're pretty close to one night.
Okay.
Yeah.
Obviously it was pitch black.
So when you're in the outback, it's quite dark at night.
Yeah.
And the sound of travel and yeah.
Yeah.
So, they sounded, you must've seen some, sorry, I'm going to jump around.
You must've seen some amazing sky at night stars.
(23:41):
Well, personally, personally, I've had many chats, you know, since, since coming back onthe trip and, and, in any ways, some of my friends have asked me, what's the highlights of
the trip?
And I know this is probably a sound kind of weird, okay.
But it's the night sky.
yeah.
can only imagine.
Like I think it, and I can remember, you know, camping, you know, in Western Australiasomewhere 40 years ago in my tent and I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't put my head in
(24:08):
the tent.
I would sleep outside.
So I'd look at the stars at night.
Yeah, me too.
Watch the satellites going over.
A couple of weeks ago, I was curious, you know, how many stars can you see with a nakedeye?
in Western Australia, which is one of the best places on the planet to see night sky.
there's nothing around as in there's no light pollution.
There's nothing.
No, no.
So I think the figure they threw out was 10 ,000 stars.
(24:30):
But I guess that's still a lot.
Like from, from where you're standing, right?
That you could count 10 ,000 and we could actually see it.
I actually have pictures on my phone where you can actually see the Milky way.
Yeah.
See, that's what the reason I asked that is when I heard you were doing it, like there'salways.
thought, a memory that pops into my head when I think about my time traveling in Tualiti,was in Peru.
(24:53):
We camped in the middle of nowhere as we go from one spot to another and you're ataltitude.
So the air is even clearer.
And I slept, slept out all the time.
That's what was raining.
I remember one night I just waking up as I consciously did for the same reasons you saidto see the night.
And it was the deepest, like it felt like I could look at my hand up there and you couldwave your hand through the Milky way and I can still see it in my head to this day.
(25:16):
So I can only imagine.
And I think you're affirming that fact that those night skies would just been deep.
And yeah, yeah, it's pretty.
It's pretty special.
know, so if anyone ever gets an opportunity and you want to really see a night sky, that'swhere you can see it.
Right.
so like I said, we prepped for a couple of days.
we even kind of laughed one time we were, we were shopping in Mandra and we were, youknow, I think we were pushing three shopping carts of food around and, and, and we went
(25:43):
shopping a number of times.
I know the one bill was a thousand dollars, right?
So, so I said to the checkout, the person checking his eyes, that's going to be yourbiggest sales today.
Right.
So she kind of laughed.
I gotta say though, around the world in Australia, remember a thousand bucks doesn't getyou a lot in the grocery store.
That's why we had to go out few times.
Yeah, a few times, yeah, yeah.
And so anyways, we then left, you know, Mandrum and we drove to Mount Magnet.
(26:12):
So how long before you leave Tarmac and hit Sand Roads?
Yeah, so you basically go to Micothera.
So we drove from Perth to Mount Magnet and Mount Magnet to Micah Thera.
So we overnighted in Mount Magnet.
So that was kind of our first time, you know, getting the gear out and so on and so forth.
(26:35):
a bit of a learning curve.
Okay.
And we're packed to the hilt.
Right.
So obviously we knew we had quite a journey in front of us.
We knew even early on that there might be some problems along the track with
because they'd had some big heavy rains.
In fact, they've had one of the wettest seasons in Western Australia this year, literallyin the last 20 or 30 years.
(27:00):
So there's a lot of water to the north.
But we still packed as if we're doing an entire route.
So you have to carry all your water, all your food, all your gear, all the stuff.
So we refueled at Micothera, did some of our last kind of shopping and then once westarted heading east towards Wailona, we were then on a track.
(27:33):
The bitumen had stopped, Rash volt.
So we basically made our way to Wailuna and that's really where you start the track.
it's kind of like the last outpost.
and, and from there we really started heading straight north.
Okay.
so you went south to north.
(27:54):
We went from Wailuna to Haltware.
Okay.
Cause I don't have the, like anyone watching this version, I'll put a map up.
I was thinking North South, went South North.
No, we went, yeah, cause we were started in Perth, right?
you started in Perth.
I'm missed that.
We all flew in the Perth, right?
So, yeah.
So I think most people do it from North to South.
(28:14):
I don't know why I just thought in my head that's where most people, why they do it thatway.
But so we started in Wailuna and yeah, so, so then you're on the track and you know,
for the most part it's the width of a vehicle.
It's a sandy track, it's like bull dust, kind of that red dust.
(28:39):
You are in, you know, it's kind of the three deserts, like the little sandy desert, thegreat sandy desert, and the Gibson desert, right?
That's where you pass through, right?
So, it's very, it's like an
kind of a scrub bush desert.
Lots of spin effects.
(28:59):
And the photos you posted.
Yeah, again I'll get some images from Scott and throw them up here for those watching thevisual version of this.
It's sand with scrub around you.
It's not Sahara desert.
No, I I crossed the Sahara many many years ago and all that stuff where you see nothingbut sand for as far as I can see.
(29:21):
That's not this trip, right?
You're driving on sand most times, it's just, got, and you'd even have some trees incertain parts, gum trees in certain parts of it, desert oaks.
Any billabongs along the way?
For those who don't know, billabongs are like a water hole.
Yeah, yeah.
(29:42):
Yeah, obviously we're going past lots of dried lakes and stuff like that.
So when you do the
need certain areas, you need permission from the traditional owners, the Aboriginalpeoples.
But do you need a permit, like a parks permit to do it?
(30:02):
Yeah.
I think for each vehicle and I'd have to double check with the guys.
I wasn't involved in that.
I think Tyler took care of all that stuff, maybe it was Don.
I think I remember them saying that the permit was $250 per vehicle.
because you're obviously traveling through a number of Aboriginal areas.
(30:25):
and just have to kind of get their permission.
That's all pre -arranged.
So it's generally, it's not a hassle.
They will generally, they would generally rubber stamp the permit to do it.
Aboriginal peoples.
And did you meet any Aboriginal people who go near or through any of their settlementsalong the way?
When we came off the track at well 33 was we came to an Aboriginal community to get thefuel.
(30:48):
Right.
So just again, so the Wells are numbered one through 250 something.
Do they start wide in the south going up?
Yeah, that's right.
So it, yeah, so once just, just, just outside, not, too far outside, Wailun is well one.
Okay.
And the start of the track and, that's really was your itinerary.
(31:09):
Okay.
We're going to go from well one to well seven today.
Okay.
Well seven to well 11.
And Don had had researched all that stuff out and that more or less kind of mapped out ourroute.
Let me ask you, is there an app for it?
Well, we were, we were using a fairly detailed apps like, maps.
(31:32):
Like you can go on, you can go on Google maps.
Right.
And you have to zoom in all the way before the track shows up.
So you can see it.
In fact,
Amazing enough.
mean, I didn't have wifi on my phone, but obviously the phone is still tracked.
So I knew exactly where we were on track at any given time with my phone.
(31:54):
Right.
Okay.
Now I downloaded some offline maps and, but, in the one vehicle we were, we were usingsome fairly sophisticated tracking because you just want to make sure that you're not
getting lost.
Because as I started earlier, like you, you literally cannot afford to get lost.
anywhere in Western Australia when you get off the main roads, let alone the standingconcrete canning stock route.
(32:18):
because yeah, if you do get lost or have serious issues, there's no one or if anyone'sgoing to find just going to take a while.
So jumping back to that, do you have to tell authorities you're on there in case somethinggoes wrong?
Like is there a check in checkout type setup?
no, no.
So it's basically get your permit, get the permits for the Aboriginal lands.
(32:38):
away you go.
Sure.
So I don't know if, if, if Don or Tyler had basically said, okay, we're departing on thisdate.
Right.
Okay.
Now you have to remember it's, it's, it's 1 ,850 kilometres.
There are vehicles.
Okay.
Like I said, I believe you can't, there's one or two, didn't you coming the other way orsomething?
Well, for the first few days, we hardly saw anybody.
(32:59):
Okay.
Now I believe over the course of the season, and I don't have maybe the latestinformation, but,
So let's say the season maybe goes from May to November.
Then you run into it's just too hot and it becomes too wet.
can't really do it.
wet in the desert.
(33:26):
Yeah.
So I'm not really, I'm not really sure how that part of it worked.
Right.
So, Donna kind of had all that stuff.
So we didn't, we didn't basically go to Y Luna, check in with the police and we justbasically pick up some goods and we were off and off we're going.
Right.
So, but we knew that you're correct.
It is very, very remote.
But I believe the current figure is up around a thousand vehicles do it a year.
(33:50):
Okay.
Now for the first few days, we only saw two or three.
Yeah, for the first probably four or five days.
We felt we were on the track by ourselves, right?
Once again, knowing that most people come from north to south.
Exactly right.
And you just kind of get in your routine, right?
So we would normally, like I said, we would pick a well and that's what we're going to aimfor.
(34:12):
We might do a hundred kilometres a day, was kind of the max we were doing.
Just a couple of days, we pushed a little bit further than that.
But you would get up, you know, we'd be up at six o 'clock in the morning, sun was comingup just shortly after, you know,
520 or something like that, something was coming up.
We'd all kind of start to stagger out of our swags around 530, 6 o 'clock in the morning,make fires.
(34:34):
Okay, even though we had all the cooking gear, we had all the, but you know, like we wantto cook over fires here too.
That's nice.
So we were hunting for firewood and one of the problems was because they had quite a bitof rain in this part of the world.
Everything was wet?
Well, lot of green.
really?
Yeah, so it was still dry where we were in the south when we on the track.
(34:56):
But you just can't basically go and burn cutting down a tree.
It doesn't burn probably, right?
So we're always trying to find dead stuff.
But it would normally the first few days took a little while to pack them all up andyou're everything back in the exact same spot.
know about it.
Exactly.
an overhand guy.
In its place, the place for everything.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(35:16):
And, so we would normally hit the road around eight 30 and we would rotate drivers.
so you know, kind of we would do two would drive in the morning, two would drive in theafternoon and one would normally have that day off.
Right.
Cause it's not a tough, it's, it's, it's
Bit of a tough drive, it or not.
Driving in conditions like that is taxing like physically and mentally because you got tofocus.
(35:40):
You don't want to make a mistake because you could end up stuck.
Yeah.
The biggest, the biggest thing that we had was, you know, you've got the track, okay.
Literally just wide enough for a vehicle to get through and then you got scrub bush ormaybe a small little tree.
So you're trying to avoid.
So you constantly just move in the truck, a little bit left and right.
(36:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just fractions because obviously before we, before we left, Tyler and Dane put on,covering over top of all the vehicles.
can buy kits.
It's like a plastic that you put, you know, overall on the sides and otherwise youwouldn't have any paint on your vehicle when you got to the end of the trip.
it's like a clear wrap.
(36:22):
Clear wrap.
It's a clear wrap.
Yeah.
So otherwise, cause these are nice vehicles you want to try and
technique as much as possible.
And it is impossible to avoid every single scrub bush.
you're past, not that fast necessarily.
So we might be traveling, you could be traveling five kilometers an hour.
You could be traveling 60 kilometers an hour, right?
But when you're scraping up against some hardy bush and you're doing that from eight 30 inthe morning until about four 30 in the afternoon, you pass thousands
(36:52):
pieces of scrub boards.
the boys did a lot of prep, thought about everything, wrapping the car.
Yeah.
Huge, huge, huge.
Yeah.
Now I understand speaking to Bruce this morning, as part of a backup service where you hadSkylink, Skylink, Starlink, Starlink, sorry, Starlink with you for access.
Because while you're away, you and Bruce, GoA launched this new website and Bruce told methis morning that you were online checking out, making sure that all launched correctly
(37:19):
from the middle of.
W a care of yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was, so that was the first time I had ever had anything to do with star link.
I mean, obviously been following what Elon Musk has been doing and putting a lot of starlinks up there, which I think is great.
I mean, prior, prior to, I mean, obviously the early explorers, they were on their own.
mean, they were
(37:40):
those guys are unbelievably tough.
was laughing with Bruce this morning.
said, you know, he had the star link and stuff, which again, if you have the tech use itbecause it could save your life.
and if nothing goes wrong, it becomes a luxury.
Great.
But yeah, that's what we're saying.
Cause I said to Bruce when I was on the road, like we didn't have GPS, didn't have anythis.
was like maps and notes from the previous driver, fax machines.
(38:02):
And then you take it a step backwards back to when they were.
when they were trying to lay the telegraph south, I read a book about it.
It's just stunning what they did with the resources compared to what we have today, howtough they were.
well, mean, obviously it takes a lot of guts when you start walking into a desert andyou're trying to find water.
(38:23):
Yeah.
You start getting thirsty after a while.
It's like, well, there was a couple of times I would stand up and maybe on one of the sanddunes and I think it was about 900, 950 sand dunes along the entire trip.
Okay.
Not a lot for the length of the trip, is it?
No.
And some of the sand dunes would have about three stories in height, but you don't reallynotice because you're kind of gradually coming up and then you're kind of crest over and
then Right, so they're sort of pointy, they're sort of long.
(38:45):
Yeah.
And, but a couple of times you would stand there and you're in the middle of no man's landand you'd just be kind of doing, turning around doing a 360 degrees and you see nothing.
And you think, well, if I was thirsty right now, where would I find water?
you know, so you, you had to be, that's why I can't even imagine how much stock theymust've lost.
(39:07):
Like I said, that first trip where they lost most of the horses, right?
Yeah, I come, I, you might have the stat, cause you're a desert freak.
but I think it's like a human can only survive like two days without water and then you'rein serious, serious trouble.
Yeah.
It's pretty, pretty serious.
If you're walking, even though the Wells might be close as far as a driving.
But even if the car broke down walking to the next well could be a challenge.
(39:30):
Yeah, you'd want to be careful Obviously we weren't in extreme temperatures.
I daytime when we started was probably about 21 degrees Celsius turned high for the dayFahrenheit for our US listeners.
Do you know what that is?
I don't know either.
Fahrenheit?
High 60s I guess somewhere around there.
(39:52):
and like midday early afternoon.
What did it get to?
21
that was the high 21 Celsius high.
Yes.
Yeah.
Cause we're in the south.
Remember wintertime.
still, yeah, I know.
Like even as an Australian, imagine the deserts in Australia are really hot all the time.
not all the time.
And obviously with, with, with the deserts, as you well know, it's, more than night.
(40:13):
have to worry.
yeah.
Night anyway, it's freezing.
Yeah.
So it would drop down.
I would say most nights was maybe getting down to around six or seven degrees Celsius.
Okay, so I'm gonna...
And the one night we woke up in the morning we had ice on one of the trucks.
Yeah, ice.
Well, yeah, guess frost wouldn't surprise me in those conditions.
I'm gonna split it up for US listeners.
(40:36):
I'm gonna say 68 or 69 degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit.
Somewhere in there.
So anyways, yeah, that was...
So 6 Celsius, the cold that Scott was through, about 42 degrees Fahrenheit.
So yeah, that's, that's called for a desert anyway, but yeah.
Yeah.
And, so we had all the creature comforts.
(40:58):
I'd never actually slept.
Well, I took my Canadian sleeping bag down with me, which we had a rating for minus 30.
I was, I was never cold.
I know the other four had a few nights where they were pretty, pretty, pretty coolish, butI was normally unzipping my sleeping bag.
Like does Bruce have,
(41:20):
like well that type of kid or did he borrow?
No, no, no.
It was all, it was all prepared.
All supplied.
Wow.
What a trip.
yeah.
This should be a commercial venture.
swear.
Yeah.
No, we were really, really spoiled.
like said, we were not roughing it at all.
Okay.
Now we Bruce and I are telling a few stories where it sounds like maybe we were, but, inall honesty, it was, it was five star.
(41:44):
That's a traction.
Yeah.
Well, I get it.
I don't want people to misunderstand because again, Scott will supply me some images orthrow them up for the visual podcast to this.
And you'll see how remote it is, not was is.
But I don't want to underplay the fact, even though, know, Starlink's there and whatnot,you cannot screw around with this particular trip.
(42:08):
And it sounds like Don and his boys were very, very well prepared.
getting this right because you said like six to eight months prep for this particular tripand luckily and as we're still gonna start to wrap things up here Scott and the boys
didn't actually get the whole trail the whole route done because of conditions correct?
You had to turn around at well 33.
(42:29):
We turned around at well 33 because of all the water up north up by Holtz Creek aroundwell 51 Lake Gregory was flooded.
Flooded.
Yeah and they said
that it was the biggest, they'd seen that lake in some 20 years.
Unfortunately, the Canary Sock route goes right by it.
(42:52):
So it was all underwater.
In fact, even when we were at Wells 24 and 25, we had a lot of water that we couldn't getaround and we had to traverse about five kilometres off I remember one of your posts
mention that, yeah.
Anyways, the one up north, the army tried to get through it and they couldn't get throughit.
we heard, and I can't confirm this, that one, one outfit made it, but they did like a 50or 60 kilometer detour off track.
(43:17):
Right.
And obviously our biggest concern is obviously with the dry spin effects that accumulatesunderneath the vehicles and with the exhaust, the vehicles catch on fire.
Really?
So it could be really, we saw the number of burnt out vehicles.
Really?
Yeah.
But, so it's, well, so it's, just gets caught.
then with the heat, the engine, everything else just.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(43:38):
So you saw a number of vehicles on the side of the road, know, like from 20, 25 years agoand all this stuff.
burnt out.
Wow.
But yeah, so we made it up to 33.
And how many kilometers would that be?
That's like, you, if you count well, that's over halfway.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know the exact commerce.
It's all over a thousand.
(43:59):
So if you need to turn off any stages, literally just turn left or right as the case maybe, only two places.
Sorry.
Off the track or you basically, if you say, right, I can't go any further.
I don't want to go any further.
Can you look, do you have to turn around or can you literally just so when we got the well33, right, if we went any further, if we went up to 51 and couldn't pass, we'd have to
come all the way back.
four days to get back to well 33.
(44:20):
Right.
So there's basically can get off at well 22 and you can, and you can get off at well 33.
So when you say get off, there's a road that will take you somewhere heading east andwest.
And we took another track, the Kidman track, well 33 and then onto another track fromthere.
And we ended up down in, marble barber, marble bar, marble bar.
(44:42):
And we went and continued down to, or we actually headed further south to Tom Price, whichwas a mining town.
From Tom Price we went up to Port Hedland.
Right.
We then made our way around to along 80 Mile Beach, stayed on 80 Mile Beach.
Then we went through Broome up to Cape Leveque.
We stayed up there and then we made our way back to Broome.
(45:04):
So obviously that duration, so we filled that in.
Cause our flights were flying a filling in time, filled that time.
And it was great.
mean, sounds like we knew that the first thousand kilometers that we did were going to beexactly the same as the next thousand.
So you're in the desert, constantly making left turn, right turn, straight stop, you know,go down a river bed, so on and so forth.
(45:32):
It would have been like that for the next thousand.
So it's not for everybody for sure.
know, like if you're a desert guy, you love it.
And I loved it.
Okay.
And we all loved it.
But if you are, you know, if you get bored in London or Paris, you, you wouldn't, youwouldn't make it here.
Right.
So, I just say it's, one thing we used to say when we were driving, if the truck gotstuck,
(45:53):
first time all the passengers, they loved digging it out.
It so much fun.
You get stuck again and it just a little bit of fun.
The third time you got stuck, it's like none of the passengers are interested in you,they'll leave it to you to get out.
So I guess it's the same thing.
Like after two or three days, if it's not your thing, then you're seeing the same thing,which is, guess, if you like deserts like I do as well, there's beauty in that.
(46:14):
But if, you know, if a desert's a desert to you, then yeah, as you say,
But again, it's not a commercial venture, still a lot of people, obviously a thousandpeople a year are taking on.
That's what I think is the number.
So we were going to talk about another adventure.
I will tease it because we don't have really time to go into the detail of it.
So prior to Scott, or you mentioned you're in the Middle East as well, but prior to allthat Scott went off on his own as he does.
(46:41):
You're a very, you want to say brave solo traveler, but you were one who can dealtraveling on your own.
before you went off to Eastern Europe on your own for a while and did multiple countries.
But that's what we're talking about.
So GoAE sells most of Africa.
We sell some of West Africa,
Scott went off on a trip that even I stand in honor of in that it was into West Africa.
(47:04):
don't remember the countries.
you went, which were the countries you hit?
I flew into Morocco and then I went down, headed south from Morocco to disputed territory,Western Sahara, across Western Sahara in the Mauritania for Mauritania down through to
Senegal from Senegal into the Gambia.
(47:26):
And then
you cross back into Senegal again, because Senegal wraps around the Gambia.
Right.
And then into Guinea -Bissau.
And I finished up in Guinea -Bissau and I flew back.
Right.
So other than Morocco, most those other countries, you can visit them as Scott did, butthey're not sort of on the main tourist top 10 list of Africa destinations.
(47:47):
Excluding Morocco.
Yeah.
I think I was about 30 days outside of Morocco.
I saw 25 other travelers.
Yeah.
Total.
Yeah.
Now the...
focal point of this trip for you was a train ride, but not a train ride in the traditionalsense that most people be thinking about.
It is an iron ore train which runs from where to where?
(48:10):
Northern Mauritania travels from Nua Dibu, which is the second largest city in Mauritania.
It's on the coast just south of Western Sahara territory and goes to a mine
700 kilometers inland in the Sahara Desert, a place called Zurat.
(48:31):
it goes out empty.
It goes out empty, comes back full.
So for our listening audience, what was your accommodation on that train?
Well, there's 200 iron ore hopper cars.
And on the outbound road, it was an empty iron ore car.
(48:51):
And on the way back, was sitting on top of a full one.
Yeah.
So 700 kilometers out, 700 kilometers back, 1400 kilometers, just under 40 hours to dothat.
So I don't think I asked this when we discussed it.
So again, people listening, and again, I'll get the photos from Scott.
it wasn't just you, there were a other people doing this, correct?
(49:11):
Or was it workers going out?
workers?
Yeah.
I ran into two young German guys on the way up.
But on the way back, I was the only one.
on the train, there's a small passenger car at the back.
there is.
Which is very, very, very, very basic.
Right.
Looks like it's from the 1910.
Not as basic as sleeping on top of iron ore though.
(49:34):
Just above.
Just above.
Just above.
Just above.
Yeah.
You covered, But yeah, no, that was, that was it.
So yeah, pretty.
Right.
So yeah.
So just for clarification, so Scott went out in an empty iron ore car with a sleeping bag,cetera, with lots of dust and amazing sunsets over the desert.
And when you got there, you just got off your particular car.
They loaded it up, literally.
(49:56):
They drop you off and then they continue on to the mines.
The mines are another 20 kilometers.
right.
So you're not there when they're loading the actual.
no, no.
then they come back, stop again and you just hop on.
You just hop on.
It stops there.
It was like, did you pay for this journey?
No, you just hop on, hop off and they don't.
10 hobos from the early days riding the railroad cars.
didn't pay either, right?
(50:16):
you're almost like a Did they see you get on and they go, yeah, it's just a white carriding the train, or they didn't even know you were on it?
No, there were some people, because when we left going out, they actually make surethere's no one on the track.
So they drive the whole two and a half kilometers, like the railway people.
So they would see us there.
OK, so they see.
So they know you're on board.
Yeah.
Just to West everything that doesn't.
(50:38):
Safety standards are not the same as North America.
no, no.
You gotta be pretty careful.
Pretty careful.
Yeah.
There are some fatalities every year on it.
yeah, gotta be careful.
Now again, that was the main draw for this trip, wasn't it?
This train journey.
And you discovered that where?
I saw it on YouTube about five or six years ago and I thought, well, that sounds prettycool.
And I was all prepared to do it.
(50:59):
I was going to go in April, 2020.
Right.
And I was actually just literally.
starting to book my flights in February.
I'm thinking I better hold off just for another week or so.
And obviously COVID showed up.
So I wasn't sure, you know, it was four years later and I wasn't sure if I was maybe tooold to do it, but I thought now's the time, better do it now or you'll never do it.
(51:21):
So, yeah.
So again, I'll throw some energy to that.
was sort of amazing journey again.
I'm not sure if it's for me and I'm pretty adventurous, but
Because there are other aspects of that trip which are fascinating as well.
The fact that you were one of the very few white people or Europeans, Westerners, whateveryou want to term it, in that era and that your transportation was in these minivans
(51:43):
squashed for 20 people for like 8 hours on end.
Yeah, like maybe when I was 20 years younger, yeah maybe right now, am I too old for that?
Okay, so I'd like to thank Scott for his time tonight that was fascinating So again, justto reiterate we do not sell the canning stock rook as a commercial venture We can advise
(52:04):
you we have in -house expertise now if anyone wanted to take it on but it's something youwould have to do yourself
But it is an amazing journey, the imagery you'll see if you watch this here on YouTube, Ithink speaks for itself.
And as I said at beginning, the DNA of adventure runs deep here.
So it wasn't just Skyler who was our owner at the age of 81 out there doing it as well.
(52:26):
And his buddy Don would be about the same age, I 70, yeah.
Well, they're 70, and his sons as well.
So adventurers for anyone of any age, if your heart's still in it, if you want a wide eyeand
across Western Africa or take a full drive through Western Australia and do the countingstock route.
But again if you have an adventure go I can sort it out for you be an extreme be it mild.
(52:48):
So again thank you Scott for your time really appreciate it.
Fascinating story man.
Cheers mate.
Cool.
Hey there everyone, I'm Don, Professor Goethe and welcome to the GoethePro Travel Talepodcast.
Travel far and travel often.
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(00:27):
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Write your
Now today I'd like
Vice President of Technology and Operations.
But Scott has not always been the tech head.
(01:09):
He was once our Head of Product back in the day actually when I joined the company, whichis aging me and probably aging Scott even more.
Very much so.
Yeah, Scott was, as I Head of Product.
So how long have you been with GoA, Scott?
You're one of the longest serving employees that I
come over the dates for the years.
(01:29):
37 1987.
Okay.
And remember everyone out there that go away started in 1970.
So I think Carolyn Wepler's after you after, yeah.
Carolyn's our VP of direct sales.
Yeah.
So who's Pete?
think Pete Lacey, our CEO, sorry, CFO.
Pete's in front of us.
(01:49):
couple of years.
Yeah.
After Bruce and Claire, his wife are the longest serving.
So Scott's been with us for long time and played I guess for many hats.
knew ASA was introduced to you when you were product.
Yeah, so I mean I started off in the Groups department and then moved over to the productside.
(02:10):
So I think I was did product for over 20 years.
It was a long time ago.
Yeah, so VP product and marketing for forever.
21, 22 years.
Okay.
So in all that time so that I guess before we get into it the sort of focus of today'spodcast is The adventure spirit runs deep in the DNA of go away from the owner Bruce Hodge
(02:33):
Who's actually part of the story we're to talk about today with Scott, but Scott himself?
Is an adventure traveler as I am?
But the two little trips we can talk about today I'm gonna say put me to shame but had methinking about whether I'd be that adventurous well one for sure
Canning Stop Route, which we'll start with.
And the other one was a trip that Scott did to West Africa and not the usual suspects ofWest Africa, but we'll get into that one.
(02:58):
That one was really literally out there.
the Steading, sorry, Canning Stop Route is in Western Australia, in Australia.
understanding of it is that it was or is, is it still a functioning route that they movedstock to and from?
(03:18):
anymore.
So it is, it is historical route, which did what?
Do you know the background to it?
just a little history.
I'm obviously, I'm not an expert on it, but I think it actually started literallydiscussion started in the start of the 20th century.
So, cattlemen,
(03:41):
So basically in Western Australia, in the East Kimberleys and the West Kimberleys.
So those who own cattle, let's say in the West Kimberleys, would take their cattle down bythe sea down to Perth.
Right.
And those in the East couldn't go the sea route, so couldn't basically head to the coast.
(04:05):
hop on a ship and transport the cattle down that way to Perth where the market was.
They actually had a bit of a parasite believe it or not and they didn't want to put themon the ships because they figured that the parasite would actually survive the trip and
they wanted to arrived down there.
So anyways the guys, the cattlemen in the eastern
(04:29):
wanted to try and figure out how we get our cattle down to the Southern markets.
Yeah, to Perth, right?
Down to Perth.
So, cause they were pretty sure that if they did do it over land, that, you know, theissues that they had with parasites, the parasites wouldn't survive the trip.
And when the cattle got there, they'd be okay.
Cows would survive with the parasite or die.
So, anyways, I believe there was an expedition in the late 1800s that did what really isthe Canning stock route.
(04:59):
root.
couple of explorers, this is before Alfred Canning actually surveyed it.
But they'd more or less determined that it was not suitable to take cattle.
Anyways, I guess they kept on talking about it and they still thought, we'll go aboutsurveying the roots.
(05:20):
So anyways, Alfred Canning, I think it was about 1906, he and I'm not sure it
four or six other guys, some camels, some horses and so forth.
They basically surveyed the route.
It took them six months to go from Wailuna in the south up to Halls Creek in the north, 1,850 kilometers.
(05:46):
So obviously they were looking for water because they determined they were trying to findenough water in grazing areas to move
had a cattle on a trip.
So they're trying to find wells positioned reasonably spaced apart.
It was a day's travel or two days travel.
(06:08):
It's about 30 kilometers apart.
so anyways, they did that and he determined that they could make it happen so that theycould move cattle on it.
So I don't think it was until a couple of years later where they actually then started
working on the track.
So, right.
(06:28):
And I think I saw a figure, I think it was at that time there was canning himself, 30 men,something like 70 camels, four wagons.
So they actually carved a pathway.
Well, they, they, they knew where they wanted to go.
Okay.
so, so more to kind of line it up and they're kind of going from well to well.
Okay.
And, I think they started off with a hundred ton of, supplies and they, they started.
(06:55):
building out the, the wells as I went up.
building the, the well, heads and the troughs.
Now they also had, Aborigines with them to help them find the wells.
And I think they ended up, building 54 wells at that time.
I think there's only 51 right now, I believe.
(07:17):
the wells now still deliver water?
not all of them.
Not all of them.
So, so anyways,
They got it all built and then I think the first drove, like the drovers nicely tookhorses, then they moved cattle.
They took 42 horses down.
(07:40):
Fortunately only nine survived the trip.
wow.
Yeah.
So it has pretty harsh conditions.
Yeah, not kidding.
So they did start, I think in 1910, moving cattle.
Okay.
But I think between 1910 and even when it finished in 1959, I think there's only 37complete trips, somewhere in there, like in the 30s.
(08:07):
many trips are they?
That's all I meant.
Because obviously I know there was one stretch for about 20 years where they didn't evenreally move any cattle just because there was problems with aboriginals.
going through...
Traditional territory to this day.
as we did on our trip.
(08:28):
So there were some problems with that.
And one of the problems they actually had when they built these wells, quite differentthan what we actually experienced on our trip, they needed three men to basically crank
with the buckets and all that stuff to get the water up.
(08:48):
So because it was on a lot of aboriginal existing water, the aboriginals couldn't get thewater.
So they were dismantling them.
So they had to go back in and rebuild because let's say, so, so Wells being dug for waterand the aboriginal peoples were dismantling the wells.
So a lot of the water that they use were on existing aboriginal water holes.
(09:13):
Right.
But wouldn't the aboriginals want like take advantage of the fact that was accessiblewater?
Right.
But they built it so that you needed three men to crank the water up out of the hole.
So if you're a lone aboriginal, it's no good to you.
They couldn't get the water So they just dismantled it in protest?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And because some aboriginals are getting killed and even when we're on this, we do really,really careful when we're pulling water up because you're sitting,
(09:42):
right over top of this, this, this, this well hole in the ground.
Yeah.
You know, and you're cranking up, maybe you beside it or you're trying to pull, pull thebucket out to, move it to the side.
Right.
So, I mean, I was always kind of mindful looking down and it's like, well, just don't,don't fall in here.
I'm not sure I can get out, but, so really it was not that successful for moving cattle.
(10:03):
Yeah.
And a lot of work for little return.
Right.
And, and one of the little history, historical thing.
actually during World War II, they actually spent quite a bit of time working on the trackbecause the Australian government wasn't sure if with the invasion possibly coming from
the north on Australia, they wanted an evacuation route.
(10:25):
And it was actually going to be used to move Australians from the far north Australia downto the south.
A lot of people might realize that during the Second World War there was serious concernthat Japan would invade Australia, which was one of
Yeah.
Final goals to take Australia.
luckily they never got there.
They did bomb Darwin a few times, actually many times.
So that's, I didn't know that that's interesting.
(10:46):
So they're going to use it as an escape route.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so anyways, for the most part, you know, the track wasn't then used since, know, 1959.
it became kind of popular in the seventies and eighties.
There's a lot of adventurers who were riding bicycles or walking it.
all sorts of different types.
(11:07):
Okay.
Just to give context to that walking or writing it, how long is it?
The, the Kenning stock route, 1 ,850 kilometers.
Right.
And this is through some of the driest, harshest desert in the world.
Very, very harsh.
And I knew this anyway, but just based on the posts that you are leaving on your Facebookpage, it is like, there's not no one or anything else out there other than other
(11:32):
adventures.
either with you or going the opposite direction on the road.
So if you get lost or have a problem, you're in trouble.
If you don't have the backup that is.
You gotta be very, careful.
And I think the first vehicle that actually traversed the entire length of it from betweenWailuna and Hulse Creek was only in 1968 or 69.
(11:58):
Because the track is not really maintained.
Obviously it's just the vehicles traveling on it.
there any like literal signposts or it's very much a GPS journey?
It's a, it's, there are some signposts like still, so just kind of some tin cans, know,like canning stock route this way.
Yeah.
Right.
(12:19):
I actually took a picture of it.
came across at least one stop sign.
Okay.
So it was kind of, kind of unusual.
We didn't expect that.
The government's got to be there somewhere.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So,
So anyways, you know, I had known, obviously, you know, went to uni in Australia many,many years ago.
(12:42):
Yeah, I was at James Cook University up in Townsville.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, yeah.
really?
What did you study?
Tourism?
Well, I was, it was industrial location analysis.
So really I was writing computer software in the early days of writing code.
And I based it on Mount Isa mines on the car refinery in towns for us to why.
(13:04):
Yeah.
To why, hang on.
So you started writing code way back when, and now you're, we don't write code anymore,but you're now in charge of our technology direction.
So I thought you sort of, what's the, the, the nice word you were sort of, you weremigrated into technology, but you actually sort of went back to where you
Educated on to a certain degree.
(13:25):
Yeah, it's a certain degree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, so I mean it's just But I So yeah, I was in Australia for almost two years.
Okay, finished my education there and So I spent a lot of time any free time I had off Ihad a motorcycle at the time I would just basically hop on on and just go wherever If I
(13:45):
had a summer or like a week or two week break, I would basically quite often wouldhitchhike
I think I've hitchhiked over 30 ,000 kilometres in Australia.
sat down one day and worked that out.
So I spent a lot of time in the outback.
Just to jump in here, just to clarify this too, you'll hear from the next story as well,but Scott has a liking for deserts.
(14:08):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I've always been pretty fascinated by deserts.
And I had heard of the Gun barrel highway, which is a fairly famous track in Australia.
And I'd heard about the Canning stock group, but I didn't know that much about it.
(14:29):
So how this trip came about actually started probably 25 years ago.
And the reason I say that, 20 or 25 years ago when I was in product,
We came across a company in Australia that was doing day trips to the Blue Mountains andthe Hunter Valley.
(14:53):
We used to call it back in those days, Australian Eco -Adventures, it's now AEA LuxuryTours.
And Don Rosenfeld was the owner and we started selling that.
any of our Sydney modules, you know, that went out to the blue mountains and hunter Valleywas on his, on his, on his vehicles.
(15:16):
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I've known Don for long, long time, right?
Anyways, kind of fast forward to last year.
and Bruce could maybe correct me if I'm wrong.
I, I think the conversation came up at, at ATE, which is an annual tourism conference.
to interject here, Bruce is the owner of the company who is, he's also,
an Aussie.
(15:36):
yep, just, Yeah.
So I think Don approached, approached Bruce to see if he maybe might want to do thecanning stock route.
Don was thinking about doing it.
had been a bucket list item for Don for over 30 years.
told me on the strip and, and, and really it was going to be at that time, it was going tobe,
(16:01):
Don and his two sons, Tyler and Dane, who did travel on the trip.
And it was going be Bruce and Adam.
And Bruce's son.
So, which made sense.
It was going to be a family thing and so forth.
adventure, Yeah, a father -son adventure, which would have been fantastic.
And then Adam.
(16:23):
became a father.
Yep, he did.
And the timing, which was obviously fantastic, but obviously the timing wasn't greatbecause it didn't really make sense to hop on this journey shortly after his son arriving.
So anyways, Bruce approached me, I guess because he knew I had a fascination for desertsand said, listen Scott, would you consider coming on this trip with me?
(16:45):
So I thought it
great opportunity.
I was very, fortunate to be asked and all that stuff.
I said, there's no way could turn that down.
I would be, I knew you and Pete and a whole bunch of others would be lining up.
Right.
So I thought if I don't take it, I know these guys will.
Right.
And I'll be really, really jealous when I hear, hear of their story and come back.
But, sorry, but I think this was last November.
(17:06):
think, from memory too, for those listening to Bruce, our own, he turned 80 last year.
And I believe this was again, as you say, Don, the other Don, me.
a bucket list idea and obviously since the company both respective companies been workingtogether for years Bruce and Donna are good mates as we say so it was yeah a bucket list
for Don I think it was presented at Bruce's birthday as a birthday gift to Bruce and ofcourse Adam at the time.
(17:34):
Bruce being very excited when he heard that at his party.
And then, yeah, as you say, one thing led to another and Adam couldn't make it for all theright reasons.
absolutely.
in.
Sun into the world.
So I just want to clarify one thing here too, is the canning stock route is not somethingGo Away sells or is a commercial venture out there something that hardcore venturers take
(17:57):
on on their own?
on their own will and such.
And I believe on that note that Don, I spoke to Bruce this morning actually about it, thatwe were going to have a chat and he mentioned that I think one of Don's sons is a part
-time chef or cook or they like to cook and the other son is a mechanic.
(18:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so basically, Don has a twin sons.
twins.
They're twins.
Tyler and Dane.
Tyler's the mechanic and he lives in Mandurah to south of Perth, about an hour south ofPerth.
And Dane, who actually works in the business but had a chef background.
(18:42):
Okay.
Okay.
And obviously we were all very, very spoiled, you know, with having actually both thoseguys on the trip, right?
Well, again, speaking to Bruce's point there, they're two good skillsets to have with you.
When you're in the middle of nowhere, you down, you got a mechanic and to eat well.
I understand you did eat very well.
Very, very well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(19:04):
So, I was Bruce and Dawn were at ATE, which was in Melbourne this year.
They flew out in the Perth.
I came by the middle East.
was in the Middle East for, a while and, they made my way down the Perth and we, we,caught up.
Tyler had been working on, so we had two vehicles, two Tyler Hilux.
Yeah.
These were drives.
(19:24):
purchased for the trip, I believe, and outfitted for the trip.
Because again, anyone listening, this is not something you just hop in your, but you'vereally got to be serious about your planning and prep and your backup and everything else
like that.
So these vehicles were purchased for and kitted out for this particular trip.
Yeah.
I think, I think Tyler worked on it for about six months.
(19:45):
really?
Yeah.
And they thought of everything.
mean, was, the vehicles were impressive.
In fact, I probably have more, more, more pictures of the vehicles than I do fromeverything else on the trip.
and, know, white one and a gray one and, yeah, they were, they were amazing.
But as you said, Don, you know, this, this is fairly hardcore.
(20:08):
you know, it's one of the top four wheel drive tracks on the planet.
And,
And I don't know if it would be the longest.
don't know on that, but you like I you're getting close to 2000 kilometers.
That's a long way.
But, so when we all kind of met up in Mandrum, there was still some more work being doneon the vehicles.
(20:32):
We then went out there and we basically had to prep, know, get fuel, get water, get food.
All the camping gear had been, was already prepped and all that stuff.
Well, between the five of us, Don and Bruce opted for the cots, okay?
(20:53):
And Tyler and Dan and I opted for the swags, okay?
is a naughty term for like a tent, right?
Yeah, well, I swagged when I was on the road as a tool that I had a swag.
So to me what it was, it's basically a mattress, like a foam mattress that rolls up intoa, like a big, I don't
So you just roll your bed out in the morning.
(21:14):
So you're basically sleeping on the ground.
Whereas you're saying Bruce and Dom were on cots, intense or outside intense?
No, no, no, but we, actually, the one vehicle had literally, almost a 180 degree wraparound the wrap around canopy.
Okay.
And sides all came down and zipped up.
They were all enclosed, right?
(21:35):
And, so, okay, I'm to jump around a bit here.
with the many bugs.
out there?
Flies.
Flies of course.
Yeah.
Company industry without a fly.
Yeah.
But nothing mosquitoes or anything like that.
No, didn't notice any mosquitoes.
Obviously we had all the first aid gear in case we ran into any snakes.
Okay.
(21:55):
So that's next question.
What wildlife did you come into contact with if anything, or you might've come intocontact?
Snakes, obviously you mentioned one.
Yeah.
So, I mean, to be perfectly honest,
Once again, like I've spent a lot of time in different parts of Australia, in differentparts of the Outback.
I guess I was thinking that when, you know, once we're on the track and so forth, we'regoing to see lots of kangaroo.
(22:17):
knew we would see lots of camels because obviously the camels were brought in to open upthat part of the world.
Those camels were originally brought in from the middle East.
Now they're actually exported from Australia back to the Middle East because they're sohardy.
Yeah, well hardy and they were left.
So to your point, they were brought in particularly to open up the telegraph from Adelaideup to Darwin.
(22:39):
That was where they use a lot.
And then when that was done, they were let go, just let to run, run wild.
So they're, their bloodline, I wouldn't say it's pure, but it's, it's very good bloodline.
And as you say, cause they're surviving in the desert, they're very, very hardy.
So they're exported from Australia now back to the middle East for breeding and forracing.
Yeah.
(22:59):
Yeah.
So I think the biggest surprise,
was the lack of kangaroos.
That's why was sort leading that question because I wouldn't expect cattle or sheep unlessthey were being pushed because you're in the desert and it's very, very barren and tough.
But I would have expected lizards as some description and I would have thought kangaroosor maybe even dingoes.
(23:21):
We heard dingoes.
you heard dingoes?
Heard dingoes, yeah.
They're pretty close to one night.
Okay.
Yeah.
Obviously it was pitch black.
So when you're in the outback, it's quite dark at night.
Yeah.
And the sound of travel and yeah.
Yeah.
So, they sounded, you must've seen some, sorry, I'm going to jump around.
You must've seen some amazing sky at night stars.
(23:41):
Well, personally, personally, I've had many chats, you know, since, since coming back onthe trip and, and, in any ways, some of my friends have asked me, what's the highlights of
the trip?
And I know this is probably a sound kind of weird, okay.
But it's the night sky.
yeah.
can only imagine.
Like I think it, and I can remember, you know, camping, you know, in Western Australiasomewhere 40 years ago in my tent and I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't put my head in
(24:08):
the tent.
I would sleep outside.
So I'd look at the stars at night.
Yeah, me too.
Watch the satellites going over.
A couple of weeks ago, I was curious, you know, how many stars can you see with a nakedeye?
in Western Australia, which is one of the best places on the planet to see night sky.
there's nothing around as in there's no light pollution.
There's nothing.
No, no.
So I think the figure they threw out was 10 ,000 stars.
(24:30):
But I guess that's still a lot.
Like from, from where you're standing, right?
That you could count 10 ,000 and we could actually see it.
I actually have pictures on my phone where you can actually see the Milky way.
Yeah.
See, that's what the reason I asked that is when I heard you were doing it, like there'salways.
thought, a memory that pops into my head when I think about my time traveling in Tualiti,was in Peru.
(24:53):
We camped in the middle of nowhere as we go from one spot to another and you're ataltitude.
So the air is even clearer.
And I slept, slept out all the time.
That's what was raining.
I remember one night I just waking up as I consciously did for the same reasons you saidto see the night.
And it was the deepest, like it felt like I could look at my hand up there and you couldwave your hand through the Milky way and I can still see it in my head to this day.
(25:16):
So I can only imagine.
And I think you're affirming that fact that those night skies would just been deep.
And yeah, yeah, it's pretty.
It's pretty special.
know, so if anyone ever gets an opportunity and you want to really see a night sky, that'swhere you can see it.
Right.
so like I said, we prepped for a couple of days.
we even kind of laughed one time we were, we were shopping in Mandra and we were, youknow, I think we were pushing three shopping carts of food around and, and, and we went
(25:43):
shopping a number of times.
I know the one bill was a thousand dollars, right?
So, so I said to the checkout, the person checking his eyes, that's going to be yourbiggest sales today.
Right.
So she kind of laughed.
I gotta say though, around the world in Australia, remember a thousand bucks doesn't getyou a lot in the grocery store.
That's why we had to go out few times.
Yeah, a few times, yeah, yeah.
And so anyways, we then left, you know, Mandrum and we drove to Mount Magnet.
(26:12):
So how long before you leave Tarmac and hit Sand Roads?
Yeah, so you basically go to Micothera.
So we drove from Perth to Mount Magnet and Mount Magnet to Micah Thera.
So we overnighted in Mount Magnet.
So that was kind of our first time, you know, getting the gear out and so on and so forth.
(26:35):
a bit of a learning curve.
Okay.
And we're packed to the hilt.
Right.
So obviously we knew we had quite a journey in front of us.
We knew even early on that there might be some problems along the track with
because they'd had some big heavy rains.
In fact, they've had one of the wettest seasons in Western Australia this year, literallyin the last 20 or 30 years.
(27:00):
So there's a lot of water to the north.
But we still packed as if we're doing an entire route.
So you have to carry all your water, all your food, all your gear, all the stuff.
So we refueled at Micothera, did some of our last kind of shopping and then once westarted heading east towards Wailona, we were then on a track.
(27:33):
The bitumen had stopped, Rash volt.
So we basically made our way to Wailuna and that's really where you start the track.
it's kind of like the last outpost.
and, and from there we really started heading straight north.
Okay.
so you went south to north.
(27:54):
We went from Wailuna to Haltware.
Okay.
Cause I don't have the, like anyone watching this version, I'll put a map up.
I was thinking North South, went South North.
No, we went, yeah, cause we were started in Perth, right?
you started in Perth.
I'm missed that.
We all flew in the Perth, right?
So, yeah.
So I think most people do it from North to South.
(28:14):
I don't know why I just thought in my head that's where most people, why they do it thatway.
But so we started in Wailuna and yeah, so, so then you're on the track and you know,
for the most part it's the width of a vehicle.
It's a sandy track, it's like bull dust, kind of that red dust.
(28:39):
You are in, you know, it's kind of the three deserts, like the little sandy desert, thegreat sandy desert, and the Gibson desert, right?
That's where you pass through, right?
So, it's very, it's like an
kind of a scrub bush desert.
Lots of spin effects.
(28:59):
And the photos you posted.
Yeah, again I'll get some images from Scott and throw them up here for those watching thevisual version of this.
It's sand with scrub around you.
It's not Sahara desert.
No, I I crossed the Sahara many many years ago and all that stuff where you see nothingbut sand for as far as I can see.
(29:21):
That's not this trip, right?
You're driving on sand most times, it's just, got, and you'd even have some trees incertain parts, gum trees in certain parts of it, desert oaks.
Any billabongs along the way?
For those who don't know, billabongs are like a water hole.
Yeah, yeah.
(29:42):
Yeah, obviously we're going past lots of dried lakes and stuff like that.
So when you do the
need certain areas, you need permission from the traditional owners, the Aboriginalpeoples.
But do you need a permit, like a parks permit to do it?
(30:02):
Yeah.
I think for each vehicle and I'd have to double check with the guys.
I wasn't involved in that.
I think Tyler took care of all that stuff, maybe it was Don.
I think I remember them saying that the permit was $250 per vehicle.
because you're obviously traveling through a number of Aboriginal areas.
(30:25):
and just have to kind of get their permission.
That's all pre -arranged.
So it's generally, it's not a hassle.
They will generally, they would generally rubber stamp the permit to do it.
Aboriginal peoples.
And did you meet any Aboriginal people who go near or through any of their settlementsalong the way?
When we came off the track at well 33 was we came to an Aboriginal community to get thefuel.
(30:48):
Right.
So just again, so the Wells are numbered one through 250 something.
Do they start wide in the south going up?
Yeah, that's right.
So it, yeah, so once just, just, just outside, not, too far outside, Wailun is well one.
Okay.
And the start of the track and, that's really was your itinerary.
(31:09):
Okay.
We're going to go from well one to well seven today.
Okay.
Well seven to well 11.
And Don had had researched all that stuff out and that more or less kind of mapped out ourroute.
Let me ask you, is there an app for it?
Well, we were, we were using a fairly detailed apps like, maps.
(31:32):
Like you can go on, you can go on Google maps.
Right.
And you have to zoom in all the way before the track shows up.
So you can see it.
In fact,
Amazing enough.
mean, I didn't have wifi on my phone, but obviously the phone is still tracked.
So I knew exactly where we were on track at any given time with my phone.
(31:54):
Right.
Okay.
Now I downloaded some offline maps and, but, in the one vehicle we were, we were usingsome fairly sophisticated tracking because you just want to make sure that you're not
getting lost.
Because as I started earlier, like you, you literally cannot afford to get lost.
anywhere in Western Australia when you get off the main roads, let alone the standingconcrete canning stock route.
(32:18):
because yeah, if you do get lost or have serious issues, there's no one or if anyone'sgoing to find just going to take a while.
So jumping back to that, do you have to tell authorities you're on there in case somethinggoes wrong?
Like is there a check in checkout type setup?
no, no.
So it's basically get your permit, get the permits for the Aboriginal lands.
(32:38):
away you go.
Sure.
So I don't know if, if, if Don or Tyler had basically said, okay, we're departing on thisdate.
Right.
Okay.
Now you have to remember it's, it's, it's 1 ,850 kilometres.
There are vehicles.
Okay.
Like I said, I believe you can't, there's one or two, didn't you coming the other way orsomething?
Well, for the first few days, we hardly saw anybody.
(32:59):
Okay.
Now I believe over the course of the season, and I don't have maybe the latestinformation, but,
So let's say the season maybe goes from May to November.
Then you run into it's just too hot and it becomes too wet.
can't really do it.
wet in the desert.
(33:26):
Yeah.
So I'm not really, I'm not really sure how that part of it worked.
Right.
So, Donna kind of had all that stuff.
So we didn't, we didn't basically go to Y Luna, check in with the police and we justbasically pick up some goods and we were off and off we're going.
Right.
So, but we knew that you're correct.
It is very, very remote.
But I believe the current figure is up around a thousand vehicles do it a year.
(33:50):
Okay.
Now for the first few days, we only saw two or three.
Yeah, for the first probably four or five days.
We felt we were on the track by ourselves, right?
Once again, knowing that most people come from north to south.
Exactly right.
And you just kind of get in your routine, right?
So we would normally, like I said, we would pick a well and that's what we're going to aimfor.
(34:12):
We might do a hundred kilometres a day, was kind of the max we were doing.
Just a couple of days, we pushed a little bit further than that.
But you would get up, you know, we'd be up at six o 'clock in the morning, sun was comingup just shortly after, you know,
520 or something like that, something was coming up.
We'd all kind of start to stagger out of our swags around 530, 6 o 'clock in the morning,make fires.
(34:34):
Okay, even though we had all the cooking gear, we had all the, but you know, like we wantto cook over fires here too.
That's nice.
So we were hunting for firewood and one of the problems was because they had quite a bitof rain in this part of the world.
Everything was wet?
Well, lot of green.
really?
Yeah, so it was still dry where we were in the south when we on the track.
(34:56):
But you just can't basically go and burn cutting down a tree.
It doesn't burn probably, right?
So we're always trying to find dead stuff.
But it would normally the first few days took a little while to pack them all up andyou're everything back in the exact same spot.
know about it.
Exactly.
an overhand guy.
In its place, the place for everything.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(35:16):
And, so we would normally hit the road around eight 30 and we would rotate drivers.
so you know, kind of we would do two would drive in the morning, two would drive in theafternoon and one would normally have that day off.
Right.
Cause it's not a tough, it's, it's, it's
Bit of a tough drive, it or not.
Driving in conditions like that is taxing like physically and mentally because you got tofocus.
(35:40):
You don't want to make a mistake because you could end up stuck.
Yeah.
The biggest, the biggest thing that we had was, you know, you've got the track, okay.
Literally just wide enough for a vehicle to get through and then you got scrub bush ormaybe a small little tree.
So you're trying to avoid.
So you constantly just move in the truck, a little bit left and right.
(36:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just fractions because obviously before we, before we left, Tyler and Dane put on,covering over top of all the vehicles.
can buy kits.
It's like a plastic that you put, you know, overall on the sides and otherwise youwouldn't have any paint on your vehicle when you got to the end of the trip.
it's like a clear wrap.
(36:22):
Clear wrap.
It's a clear wrap.
Yeah.
So otherwise, cause these are nice vehicles you want to try and
technique as much as possible.
And it is impossible to avoid every single scrub bush.
you're past, not that fast necessarily.
So we might be traveling, you could be traveling five kilometers an hour.
You could be traveling 60 kilometers an hour, right?
But when you're scraping up against some hardy bush and you're doing that from eight 30 inthe morning until about four 30 in the afternoon, you pass thousands
(36:52):
pieces of scrub boards.
the boys did a lot of prep, thought about everything, wrapping the car.
Yeah.
Huge, huge, huge.
Yeah.
Now I understand speaking to Bruce this morning, as part of a backup service where you hadSkylink, Skylink, Starlink, Starlink, sorry, Starlink with you for access.
Because while you're away, you and Bruce, GoA launched this new website and Bruce told methis morning that you were online checking out, making sure that all launched correctly
(37:19):
from the middle of.
W a care of yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was, so that was the first time I had ever had anything to do with star link.
I mean, obviously been following what Elon Musk has been doing and putting a lot of starlinks up there, which I think is great.
I mean, prior, prior to, I mean, obviously the early explorers, they were on their own.
mean, they were
(37:40):
those guys are unbelievably tough.
was laughing with Bruce this morning.
said, you know, he had the star link and stuff, which again, if you have the tech use itbecause it could save your life.
and if nothing goes wrong, it becomes a luxury.
Great.
But yeah, that's what we're saying.
Cause I said to Bruce when I was on the road, like we didn't have GPS, didn't have anythis.
was like maps and notes from the previous driver, fax machines.
(38:02):
And then you take it a step backwards back to when they were.
when they were trying to lay the telegraph south, I read a book about it.
It's just stunning what they did with the resources compared to what we have today, howtough they were.
well, mean, obviously it takes a lot of guts when you start walking into a desert andyou're trying to find water.
(38:23):
Yeah.
You start getting thirsty after a while.
It's like, well, there was a couple of times I would stand up and maybe on one of the sanddunes and I think it was about 900, 950 sand dunes along the entire trip.
Okay.
Not a lot for the length of the trip, is it?
No.
And some of the sand dunes would have about three stories in height, but you don't reallynotice because you're kind of gradually coming up and then you're kind of crest over and
then Right, so they're sort of pointy, they're sort of long.
(38:45):
Yeah.
And, but a couple of times you would stand there and you're in the middle of no man's landand you'd just be kind of doing, turning around doing a 360 degrees and you see nothing.
And you think, well, if I was thirsty right now, where would I find water?
you know, so you, you had to be, that's why I can't even imagine how much stock theymust've lost.
(39:07):
Like I said, that first trip where they lost most of the horses, right?
Yeah, I come, I, you might have the stat, cause you're a desert freak.
but I think it's like a human can only survive like two days without water and then you'rein serious, serious trouble.
Yeah.
It's pretty, pretty serious.
If you're walking, even though the Wells might be close as far as a driving.
But even if the car broke down walking to the next well could be a challenge.
(39:30):
Yeah, you'd want to be careful Obviously we weren't in extreme temperatures.
I daytime when we started was probably about 21 degrees Celsius turned high for the dayFahrenheit for our US listeners.
Do you know what that is?
I don't know either.
Fahrenheit?
High 60s I guess somewhere around there.
(39:52):
and like midday early afternoon.
What did it get to?
21
that was the high 21 Celsius high.
Yes.
Yeah.
Cause we're in the south.
Remember wintertime.
still, yeah, I know.
Like even as an Australian, imagine the deserts in Australia are really hot all the time.
not all the time.
And obviously with, with, with the deserts, as you well know, it's, more than night.
(40:13):
have to worry.
yeah.
Night anyway, it's freezing.
Yeah.
So it would drop down.
I would say most nights was maybe getting down to around six or seven degrees Celsius.
Okay, so I'm gonna...
And the one night we woke up in the morning we had ice on one of the trucks.
Yeah, ice.
Well, yeah, guess frost wouldn't surprise me in those conditions.
I'm gonna split it up for US listeners.
(40:36):
I'm gonna say 68 or 69 degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit.
Somewhere in there.
So anyways, yeah, that was...
So 6 Celsius, the cold that Scott was through, about 42 degrees Fahrenheit.
So yeah, that's, that's called for a desert anyway, but yeah.
Yeah.
And, so we had all the creature comforts.
(40:58):
I'd never actually slept.
Well, I took my Canadian sleeping bag down with me, which we had a rating for minus 30.
I was, I was never cold.
I know the other four had a few nights where they were pretty, pretty, pretty coolish, butI was normally unzipping my sleeping bag.
Like does Bruce have,
(41:20):
like well that type of kid or did he borrow?
No, no, no.
It was all, it was all prepared.
All supplied.
Wow.
What a trip.
yeah.
This should be a commercial venture.
swear.
Yeah.
No, we were really, really spoiled.
like said, we were not roughing it at all.
Okay.
Now we Bruce and I are telling a few stories where it sounds like maybe we were, but, inall honesty, it was, it was five star.
(41:44):
That's a traction.
Yeah.
Well, I get it.
I don't want people to misunderstand because again, Scott will supply me some images orthrow them up for the visual podcast to this.
And you'll see how remote it is, not was is.
But I don't want to underplay the fact, even though, know, Starlink's there and whatnot,you cannot screw around with this particular trip.
(42:08):
And it sounds like Don and his boys were very, very well prepared.
getting this right because you said like six to eight months prep for this particular tripand luckily and as we're still gonna start to wrap things up here Scott and the boys
didn't actually get the whole trail the whole route done because of conditions correct?
You had to turn around at well 33.
(42:29):
We turned around at well 33 because of all the water up north up by Holtz Creek aroundwell 51 Lake Gregory was flooded.
Flooded.
Yeah and they said
that it was the biggest, they'd seen that lake in some 20 years.
Unfortunately, the Canary Sock route goes right by it.
(42:52):
So it was all underwater.
In fact, even when we were at Wells 24 and 25, we had a lot of water that we couldn't getaround and we had to traverse about five kilometres off I remember one of your posts
mention that, yeah.
Anyways, the one up north, the army tried to get through it and they couldn't get throughit.
we heard, and I can't confirm this, that one, one outfit made it, but they did like a 50or 60 kilometer detour off track.
(43:17):
Right.
And obviously our biggest concern is obviously with the dry spin effects that accumulatesunderneath the vehicles and with the exhaust, the vehicles catch on fire.
Really?
So it could be really, we saw the number of burnt out vehicles.
Really?
Yeah.
But, so it's, well, so it's, just gets caught.
then with the heat, the engine, everything else just.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(43:38):
So you saw a number of vehicles on the side of the road, know, like from 20, 25 years agoand all this stuff.
burnt out.
Wow.
But yeah, so we made it up to 33.
And how many kilometers would that be?
That's like, you, if you count well, that's over halfway.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know the exact commerce.
It's all over a thousand.
(43:59):
So if you need to turn off any stages, literally just turn left or right as the case maybe, only two places.
Sorry.
Off the track or you basically, if you say, right, I can't go any further.
I don't want to go any further.
Can you look, do you have to turn around or can you literally just so when we got the well33, right, if we went any further, if we went up to 51 and couldn't pass, we'd have to
come all the way back.
four days to get back to well 33.
(44:20):
Right.
So there's basically can get off at well 22 and you can, and you can get off at well 33.
So when you say get off, there's a road that will take you somewhere heading east andwest.
And we took another track, the Kidman track, well 33 and then onto another track fromthere.
And we ended up down in, marble barber, marble bar, marble bar.
(44:42):
And we went and continued down to, or we actually headed further south to Tom Price, whichwas a mining town.
From Tom Price we went up to Port Hedland.
Right.
We then made our way around to along 80 Mile Beach, stayed on 80 Mile Beach.
Then we went through Broome up to Cape Leveque.
We stayed up there and then we made our way back to Broome.
(45:04):
So obviously that duration, so we filled that in.
Cause our flights were flying a filling in time, filled that time.
And it was great.
mean, sounds like we knew that the first thousand kilometers that we did were going to beexactly the same as the next thousand.
So you're in the desert, constantly making left turn, right turn, straight stop, you know,go down a river bed, so on and so forth.
(45:32):
It would have been like that for the next thousand.
So it's not for everybody for sure.
know, like if you're a desert guy, you love it.
And I loved it.
Okay.
And we all loved it.
But if you are, you know, if you get bored in London or Paris, you, you wouldn't, youwouldn't make it here.
Right.
So, I just say it's, one thing we used to say when we were driving, if the truck gotstuck,
(45:53):
first time all the passengers, they loved digging it out.
It so much fun.
You get stuck again and it just a little bit of fun.
The third time you got stuck, it's like none of the passengers are interested in you,they'll leave it to you to get out.
So I guess it's the same thing.
Like after two or three days, if it's not your thing, then you're seeing the same thing,which is, guess, if you like deserts like I do as well, there's beauty in that.
(46:14):
But if, you know, if a desert's a desert to you, then yeah, as you say,
But again, it's not a commercial venture, still a lot of people, obviously a thousandpeople a year are taking on.
That's what I think is the number.
So we were going to talk about another adventure.
I will tease it because we don't have really time to go into the detail of it.
So prior to Scott, or you mentioned you're in the Middle East as well, but prior to allthat Scott went off on his own as he does.
(46:41):
You're a very, you want to say brave solo traveler, but you were one who can dealtraveling on your own.
before you went off to Eastern Europe on your own for a while and did multiple countries.
But that's what we're talking about.
So GoAE sells most of Africa.
We sell some of West Africa,
Scott went off on a trip that even I stand in honor of in that it was into West Africa.
(47:04):
don't remember the countries.
you went, which were the countries you hit?
I flew into Morocco and then I went down, headed south from Morocco to disputed territory,Western Sahara, across Western Sahara in the Mauritania for Mauritania down through to
Senegal from Senegal into the Gambia.
(47:26):
And then
you cross back into Senegal again, because Senegal wraps around the Gambia.
Right.
And then into Guinea -Bissau.
And I finished up in Guinea -Bissau and I flew back.
Right.
So other than Morocco, most those other countries, you can visit them as Scott did, butthey're not sort of on the main tourist top 10 list of Africa destinations.
(47:47):
Excluding Morocco.
Yeah.
I think I was about 30 days outside of Morocco.
I saw 25 other travelers.
Yeah.
Total.
Yeah.
Now the...
focal point of this trip for you was a train ride, but not a train ride in the traditionalsense that most people be thinking about.
It is an iron ore train which runs from where to where?
(48:10):
Northern Mauritania travels from Nua Dibu, which is the second largest city in Mauritania.
It's on the coast just south of Western Sahara territory and goes to a mine
700 kilometers inland in the Sahara Desert, a place called Zurat.
(48:31):
it goes out empty.
It goes out empty, comes back full.
So for our listening audience, what was your accommodation on that train?
Well, there's 200 iron ore hopper cars.
And on the outbound road, it was an empty iron ore car.
(48:51):
And on the way back, was sitting on top of a full one.
Yeah.
So 700 kilometers out, 700 kilometers back, 1400 kilometers, just under 40 hours to dothat.
So I don't think I asked this when we discussed it.
So again, people listening, and again, I'll get the photos from Scott.
it wasn't just you, there were a other people doing this, correct?
(49:11):
Or was it workers going out?
workers?
Yeah.
I ran into two young German guys on the way up.
But on the way back, I was the only one.
on the train, there's a small passenger car at the back.
there is.
Which is very, very, very, very basic.
Right.
Looks like it's from the 1910.
Not as basic as sleeping on top of iron ore though.
(49:34):
Just above.
Just above.
Just above.
Just above.
Yeah.
You covered, But yeah, no, that was, that was it.
So yeah, pretty.
Right.
So yeah.
So just for clarification, so Scott went out in an empty iron ore car with a sleeping bag,cetera, with lots of dust and amazing sunsets over the desert.
And when you got there, you just got off your particular car.
They loaded it up, literally.
(49:56):
They drop you off and then they continue on to the mines.
The mines are another 20 kilometers.
right.
So you're not there when they're loading the actual.
no, no.
then they come back, stop again and you just hop on.
You just hop on.
It stops there.
It was like, did you pay for this journey?
No, you just hop on, hop off and they don't.
10 hobos from the early days riding the railroad cars.
didn't pay either, right?
(50:16):
you're almost like a Did they see you get on and they go, yeah, it's just a white carriding the train, or they didn't even know you were on it?
No, there were some people, because when we left going out, they actually make surethere's no one on the track.
So they drive the whole two and a half kilometers, like the railway people.
So they would see us there.
OK, so they see.
So they know you're on board.
Yeah.
Just to West everything that doesn't.
(50:38):
Safety standards are not the same as North America.
no, no.
You gotta be pretty careful.
Pretty careful.
Yeah.
There are some fatalities every year on it.
yeah, gotta be careful.
Now again, that was the main draw for this trip, wasn't it?
This train journey.
And you discovered that where?
I saw it on YouTube about five or six years ago and I thought, well, that sounds prettycool.
And I was all prepared to do it.
(50:59):
I was going to go in April, 2020.
Right.
And I was actually just literally.
starting to book my flights in February.
I'm thinking I better hold off just for another week or so.
And obviously COVID showed up.
So I wasn't sure, you know, it was four years later and I wasn't sure if I was maybe tooold to do it, but I thought now's the time, better do it now or you'll never do it.
(51:21):
So, yeah.
So again, I'll throw some energy to that.
was sort of amazing journey again.
I'm not sure if it's for me and I'm pretty adventurous, but
Because there are other aspects of that trip which are fascinating as well.
The fact that you were one of the very few white people or Europeans, Westerners, whateveryou want to term it, in that era and that your transportation was in these minivans
(51:43):
squashed for 20 people for like 8 hours on end.
Yeah, like maybe when I was 20 years younger, yeah maybe right now, am I too old for that?
Okay, so I'd like to thank Scott for his time tonight that was fascinating So again, justto reiterate we do not sell the canning stock rook as a commercial venture We can advise
(52:04):
you we have in -house expertise now if anyone wanted to take it on but it's something youwould have to do yourself
But it is an amazing journey, the imagery you'll see if you watch this here on YouTube, Ithink speaks for itself.
And as I said at beginning, the DNA of adventure runs deep here.
So it wasn't just Skyler who was our owner at the age of 81 out there doing it as well.
(52:26):
And his buddy Don would be about the same age, I 70, yeah.
Well, they're 70, and his sons as well.
So adventurers for anyone of any age, if your heart's still in it, if you want a wide eyeand
across Western Africa or take a full drive through Western Australia and do the countingstock route.
But again if you have an adventure go I can sort it out for you be an extreme be it mild.
(52:48):
So again thank you Scott for your time really appreciate it.
Fascinating story man.
Cheers mate.
Cool.
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