The Highs & Lows of Family Travel

Family travel is magical! But it can also be chaotic—no matter what ages your kids are or the destination you choose!

 

Family travel is about connection. Connection made from educational experiences you will never find in a classroom, from taking on new challenges, discovering personal resilience, and forging memories that will last a lifetime and shape you and your family far into the future.

 

Join Professor Goway Don Forster and his wife, Jana Forster, as they recall their many family travel experiences from Australia to the Galapagos, Antarctica to Africa, the challenges, the rewards, the benefits and why it is worth any grief!

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Family travel is magical, but it can also be chaotic, no matter what ages your kids are orthe destination you choose.
From seeing the look of wonderment and discovery on your child's face, to seeing a newworld through different eyes, their eyes, you will find laughter in the most unexpected
places and situations.
You will find those wow moments when you least expect it.

(00:25):
It isn't about perfection in logistics, or hiccups along the way, or tantrums.
Again, regardless of the travellers age.
It is about connection, about an education you will never find in a classroom.
It is about taking on new challenges, discovering personal resilience, parental patienceand parental pride.
It is discovering memories that will not only last a lifetime, but will shape you and yourfamily into your and their futures.

(00:54):
Hey there everyone, I'm Don, Professor Go-Away.
and welcome to the Go Way Pro Travel Tale Podcast.
Travel far and travel often.
Hello everyone, welcome to the GoA Pro Travel Tales podcast.

(01:15):
uh Something a little bit different today in respect to our guests.
For anyone who watches the Late Show with Stephen Colbert, you know he often has his wifeEvian to chat to.
I'm going to follow the same theme here and today we are welcoming my wife, Jana, uh NiiKomarowski, now Forster.
uh And we are going to talk family travel, the highs and lows.

(01:41):
I don't think there many lows.
There are challenges, without a doubt, travelling with your kids and your family, witheach other.
um But we're going to discuss that today and why it's something you should look at umeither independently, so individually, or as an agent out there speaking to your clients
uh and if they come to you with a family travel request, that it's a lot of fun.

(02:05):
m
So, Jana, thank you for joining us.
Feeling a little bit out of her comfort zone being here in the work environment or my workenvironment.
ah We do this with all our podcast guests.
want to tell us a little bit about yourself, maybe how you and I met, because that goes toour subject matter today.
Sure.
Well, thanks for having me Don.

(02:25):
Although I think I think I'm thanking you.
um So yeah, so we met in We met in Quito, Ecuador I had been traveling on my own andthroughout Africa I had done what was then a dragonman trip, which was an overlanding trip
and the driver that ah I had at that point in time was a lady named

(02:49):
Can you explain what overlanding is to people who may not know about it?
Yeah, so it's basically a camping trip where you go over land.
um In the vehicles that Drago used, they were converted Mercedes trucks that held 24passengers and they had a driver and a co-driver.
So my driver was a woman Meg Afford and her and I became friends and I had been travelingaround the world at that point.

(03:13):
um
I left Africa, I went up to Egypt and then through Southeast Asia, made my way throughCalifornia.
then uh anyway, she convinced me while I was in Africa in Uganda, on a rooftop to come andjoin her in South Africa or South America.
So.

(03:34):
Possibly, probably.
Absolutely.
No.
em Anyway.
We made the decision right then and there that I would join her in Quito, Ecuador.
And she was doing a drive with Drago circumventing uh South America.
So it takes six months to do that trip.

(03:57):
And so I met up with her and we went to a restaurant to have a bite to eat.
Let me just interrupt here just for our listening audience.
So what John is referring to is.
I'm getting to now.

(04:38):
to that you were in a good paying job in the sort of more mainstream roles, accountancy,accounting work or finance work at the time.
Well, at that time, I worked for a very large Canadian mutual fund company.
then, yeah, I was in the financial industry.
So I am a professional, both an accountant and CPA and a CFA.

(05:03):
and you sort of uprooted and planned on a traveling with no real end date?
Was it a year off or was it just travel until whenever?
Well, yeah, I was going to I bought around the world ticket, right, which was good for ayear.
I didn't come back until 19 months later.
So I added more stuff as I went along.

(05:24):
that leads us back to Jana and Meg on the rooftop in Africa, maybe drunk, maybe not, uhsaying or Meg saying to Jana or Jana saying to Meg, I'll join up with you in South America
and as you were saying.
So we were having dinner in this restaurant and in comes Dawn.
And he was her driver, she was his co-driver.
And he had what was called the PAX list, which stands for passengers.

(05:47):
And it had a list of...
talking to travel agents, think they understand what PAX means.
But thank you for clarifying.
as the person's name, uh nationality, occupation and age.
So the three of us were all single and we're all scanning the list looking for what wethought were going to be prospects, I guess.
Let me just interject to them because this is all back in the day pre-internet.

(06:10):
So again, as Jana says, we got our passenger lists for the next upcoming trip via a faxinto a designated hotel and what we termed as our joining cities.
And yeah, it was one of these little games that the drivers played.
You you look at the name, surname, country of nationality and age, you'd guesstimate whatthis person may or may not be like.
Of course, in this day and age, that's very probably non-PC, but it was just something wedid.

(06:34):
It was always interesting to see what you thought to what that person would be.
And nine times out of 10, you were completely wrong.
And normally it was done between just the two drivers as their little thing, but becauseJana knew Meg, we let Jana in on the little ritual.
And do you want to continue?
Yeah, so at the time, so we're looking at the list and then I had picked out one person Ithought would have been good and Don said because you go around South of Africa, South

(07:02):
America for six months people got get on at three different destination cities and so healready knew the person that I had picked and already he said I don't think that's gonna
work out.
Mind you, I just met John.
I had no idea who she was or what she was about.
And I remember thinking, hmm, he wouldn't be bad if he lost the earring.
He being?
You.

(07:22):
Because you had this big ugly earring on.
I thought it was ugly.
But anyway, that was that.
And by the end of the trip, we were a couple.
by the end of, I should know this, but probably two years we were married and we havethree children now.
I guess the point of our story is one, it's quite cool.

(07:42):
Well, I think it is even though we've heard it both told it millions of times, but we bothmet traveling.
ah And the point in me bringing up Jana's life, so to speak, before traveling is she was aprofessional and the travel was an important thing to her then.
And I believe because of it then, or maybe it was just in her system.
I've never asked you this actually, that it's it has remained.

(08:05):
Was it always of I've never asked you this question.
Was it like was the trip just
something to do before you, inverted commas for those who aren't watching, settle down orwas it something you'd always wanted to do, like the travel vibe?
No, I always like travel uh prior to that I had already spent a year
10, 11 months I guess in France and I went to school in the University of Grenoble andthen transferred to the south of France.

(08:34):
So it wasn't my first foray, it was always something that I was interested in.
And that, you know, I started traveling with my family across Canada as a child traveling,family travel, so that's pertinent.
ah What I liked about that trip, and I think that's really what inspired me to have thisinterest in the world.
and in overlanding as we would drive to Nova Scotia and at those times particularly it wasa paper map and it was little magazines you picked up that you know the gas station and in

(09:04):
there you found your next hotel and looked for the vacancy or non-vacancy signs vacancysigns and then that was I guess that's how I started but
I did much the same with my dad when we traveled around New South Wales.
He did business trips and it was just, well, we got a circuit we got to, but I rememberthat the paper maps, find the hotels with the vacancy signs, that type of thing.

(09:25):
So yeah, Jana and I met, uh one thing led to another and on the trip that you did, youwent keto to Rio with the group and then you got off the truck, we just generalize it as
the truck and did some independent travel, meeting up with us here and there around therest of South
America.
um Anyway, so that was sort of that and then we end up getting married and we now havethree, I wouldn't say kids anymore, they are three boys.

(09:56):
Thing one, two and three as I refer to them.
uh Sale, Ethan and Hayden now all in their 20s, all with a wanderlust.
ah attitude I believe.
One of them is out west, we're in Toronto recording this, he's out west tree planting now.
Both his older and younger brother have done the same thing, they like to travel and Ithink it's because what we instilled in them because of our love of travel which is what

(10:21):
we'll get into now.
So ah when Jarna met me I was an overland driver at the time, long hair, earrings, now nohair, no earrings.
ah
You didn't have hair when I met you.
It was definitely going at the time actually.
I remember when I shaved my head for the first time, it was in the Grand Savannah inVenezuela.

(10:42):
I got sick of it, just the whole horrible, receding thing and shaved it then and I'veshaved it ever since.
But that's by the by.
So yeah, I was sort of the gypsy overland driver at the time.
Janna was, you know.
from a more professional background.
Obviously, I'd finished university.
I never did that, never finished secondary or higher education, which is...

(11:04):
People often ask in all my travels, is there anything you regret or have done differently?
I would have gone to university looking back on things.
But had I done that, maybe my life wouldn't have been as travel-oriented as it went, soreally, no regrets.
The point is, my wife comes from formal education.
I don't, I come from life experiences.
predominantly, which my wife does as well.
But the point is those two, and I do have a high respect for higher education,particularly now.

(11:29):
ah I'm an avid reader and learner of stuff and whatnot.
The point about all this is I think we have both seen through our personal travelexperiences, which we've then passed on to our kids, is that as the introduction states,
travel is an education you will never get.
You won't get the same type of education, I should say, in a classroom.

(11:51):
I know I'm going to ask you these questions, I know the answers, but I'm asking you forthe sake of our audience and that's what you would agree with, correct?
That travel gives you a different type of education to life and who you are and what youcan be.
Absolutely.
uh I think, yeah, it definitely makes you understand the world.
uh I think there's a quote that I think you gave me at one point from Mark Twain.

(12:14):
I couldn't recite it now, but I know that it's something to the effect that how travelmakes you more accepting of everyone.
em and where they come from with different backgrounds.
And I think that's true, especially when you're a guest in another country.

(12:35):
And I've been thinking of that a lot lately because em we travel a lot to Mexico and inour travels there, we're a guest in another country and we are treated with such great
respect there.
And em that's something where...
When you are the guest, you realize the importance of um being accepting of other peopleand accepting guests when you're in your own territory.

(13:08):
And I think that that's what travel really does.
Yeah.
And again, we both sort of, again, it was an open conversation when we got married, it'sjust something we both did love to do travel.
But I think on some of our earlier trips, the intent was to expose our kids to othercultures, other ways of life for them to appreciate what they have with us and with the

(13:32):
country in which they live, which is Canada, which is where we are both based.
Or, you know, people listening to us obviously from the US as well.
We're both very lucky countries to live.
as an Aussie too, very lucky country.
In fact, our nickname for Australia is the lucky country.
um So we exposed our kids to travel very young.
Now I'm going to defer to a lot of the dates and timing here to my wife, Janna, becauseshe has a memory like an elephant.

(13:56):
I mean that with as a compliment, I have a memory like a goldfish.
So I can't remember where we went, but the dates and the timing of it all.
So I think our first trip.
As a family, this will also lead into the challenges and again, I don't use the wordLowe's even though it's in the title.
Again, the challenges of family travel.
When was our first big trip would be to Australia, taking the kids back to see my mum andtheir grandmother?

(14:21):
We had two boys at the time, the oldest, five months and two years.
And there we go.
I couldn't remember the year for save my life.
And we went to Oz to see, probably my mum.
um
We'll join our regularly scheduled program after these messages.

(14:44):
hear people here, cause I'll know as well.
now return to our regularly scheduled programming.
We're back.
That was actually, we had to interrupt our podcast.
There was a phone call from one of our boys who's traveling, strangely enough.
He's over in BC visiting his older brother.
They're doing a catch up before one goes back to university, the younger, and the otherone does more tree planting up on the border with Alaska.

(15:09):
So where were we?
Oh, our first trip to Australia.
were talking, we had a five month old and a two and a half year old.
Okay, uh so that was a big trip and that was obviously going back to see my friends andfamily because back to the story of how John and I met.
So when I left Australia to work for Dragoman, Drago, I flew, I can't remember the exactdays, it something like this.

(15:34):
I flew on a Tuesday, landed on a Wednesday in the UK, which is where they were based.
I was in Australia, flew to England, interviewed.
and I knew I'd get the job, but I'd done some research obviously.
So flew on a Tuesday, landed on a Wednesday, interviewed on a Thursday, started on aFriday.
And I didn't go home till about seven years later.

(15:55):
And when I returned home to Australia, it was with my wife, a Canadian, and two kids.
So it was a bit of a shock.
Well, it a shock.
Everyone knew what had happened, but I hadn't seen people for seven years.
So that was sort of the crux of going home.
So a lot of family travel obviously is families returning to their countries of origin, ifyou're foreigners or immigrants, which I am, I'm an immigrant here in Canada, to visit

(16:19):
family members.
So that's obviously one big driving factor for family travel and introducing children.
as was in our case anyway.
So we went back home and what did we do?
We went and saw my mum of course.
Yeah, we went to Frasier.
Did we go to?
Yes.
Oh, yeah, and we went to scuba diving
So we went home, visited friends and family in Sydney.

(16:42):
it's the challenges, again not the lows, challenge, particularly with trouble of youngkids is, know, Ethan was a baby, so it was strollers and diapers and bags and all that.
And Sal, the oldest, was a procro...
procro...
procrocious?
Prococious?
Two-year-old.
So he was a bit of a challenge to my mum, and my mum was a type of person.

(17:07):
hippie living up in the hills.
that was interesting.
So my wife, those who aren't watching, is nodding her head in a knowing way.
My mum lived up in the hills, no running water, no power, or powers generated.
So if you wanted to go to the bathroom, was outside, the baths, showers were outside.
And this is Australia in the bush, there's lots of snakes and spiders running around.

(17:31):
So here was a challenge for us, having the confidence, not so much my mother, but thesurrounds.
Because as Jana just mentioned we left the two kids with my mum to go up north to thebarrier reef so she and I could do some diving.
So there was a bit of nerve wrackness there with the kids running around this propertywith black snakes and spiders and stuff like that.
So not your normal challenge in a family travel trip, but it's sort of normal for my sideof the family.

(17:59):
So what else did we do on that particular trip?
Well, we went to well beach and we stayed with Gina and
These are friends and family.
around.
We went to the Wiggles.
We went and saw the Wiggles.
Yeah, we walking down at the time.
It was called the Sydney Entertainment Centre in Darling Harbour down in Sydney.
And we walked by and the Wiggles were on.

(18:20):
So we thought we'd take the kids in there.
They lasted for half an hour then fell asleep.
So my wife and I, Joanna and I got to watch the Wiggles.
That was fun.
Anyway, so that was our first foray into big travel distance wise with the family.
Again, I don't remember any real challenge other than the kids being five and two, whichis just built in.
But even then, didn't even notice that.

(18:42):
First of all, we were a lot younger, so that makes a big difference.
And second of all, we actually, if you remember this, we didn't travel together.
It was also Meg's birthday.
That's right, yeah.
Meg, was the original driver with Dawn, she's Australian.
And it was one of her big birthdays, probably 30.
And we were staying in the rocks area.

(19:05):
We had a hotel and...
nice hotel down by, no wasn't on the rocks, the other side of, it was on the opera house.
For those who know the lay of the city, it was on Macquarie Street.
I can't remember the name of the hotel, but it's stunningly, it's still there, stunninglybeautiful hotel.
Yeah, we caught up with Meg, who was living in Manly, which is the famous seaside cityacross the harbor as well.

(19:26):
um Yeah, so, yeah, I don't remember us not traveling together.
What was the reason for that?
Because we flew on two separate sets of air miles.
you flew one, you went with sale and I of course went with Ethan who was the younger one.
oh Can you edit that?

(19:46):
We can edit that out.
So yeah, but again, there was driving motives for us to go to Australia for friends andfamily, but we weren't put off by the kids' ages.
And again, we also understood and knew that at the very young age, it's very unlikely theywould have remembered, well, Ethan for short, five months.
and Sal has no, we've spoken to him about it, he has no recollection.

(20:09):
So, and we often get calls from agents and or people saying, can I travel with my...
two months old, six month old, whatever it may be.
Most instances you can travel to most destinations.
Certain activities won't be doable or suggested with young children.
ah There comes into play childcare at a younger age, which we'll touch on on our secondtrip to Australia.

(20:33):
That can be arranged in certain instances, but I don't think you should ever put thefamily off traveling.
ah It didn't put us off.
Is there value for the kids at that age in all the sort of things we've mentioned in theintroduction of memories and life experiences?
Probably not, but I think it plants a seed in that subconscious if you keep doing it afterthe fact, which we did.

(20:55):
So what was our next trip?
Probably Australia again.
we have three children.
Hayden was three, Sale would have been eight, and Ethan would have been six.
Yeah, so this trip was again one for us the family we're going back to see parts of thecountry I hadn't seen and like most people in Australia we will as Australians we travel

(21:18):
everywhere in the world because so far away from everything and a lot of us often Ignoreor forget about our own backyard.
Is that a fair statement for Canadians?
Would you say Canadians are the same way that they'll explore?
Because because Canadians have very good rep or they're known to travel
long distance.
A lot of our passengers as a Dragonman driver were from Canada um and UK and Australiawere the biggest make-up.

(21:44):
Not so many Americans traveling in that style at least, but lots of Canadians.
So do you think as a Canadian, you think Canadians also view that?
Let's go and see the world before I see my backyard.
uh Probably.
It's also expensive to travel within Canada.
ah
in the day, it's always been inexpensive.

(22:04):
back in the day.
you know if I look at my circle of friends they probably traveled within Canada first.
ah Like a lot of them went up to the Yukon.
I going to say, I've spoken to a lot of what are now mutual friends and just people inCanada, but a lot, I was going to say the opposite.
A lot of people I know who are Canadian haven't been to the Yukon, haven't done that typeof thing.
You know, they've done Vancouver, Victoria, Vancouver Island, a lot out East, but a lot ofstuff in between and the more sort of remotes.

(22:30):
I don't think I would say they experienced it as much, but again, like I didn't grow uphere, you did.
So maybe you'll circle with friends.
There you go.
You'll travel with all the friends.
uh So yeah, we went back to Australia again to see friends and family.
This was primarily though to do a road trip and the core of our trip was hiring an RV or acamp event as they called in Australia and driving from Darwin in the far north of the

(23:00):
Northern Territory down to the centre Uluru, Katajuta.
uh
in the RV and then we did, it was Sydney and that wasn't, I can't remember, see, this iswhere I need you.
can't remember the actual item.
That was, yeah, again, so friends and family, because I grew up in Sydney, so friends andfamily around Sydney.

(23:20):
Then I think we flew into Darwin and of course being an awesome travel person that I am,travel agent, I screwed up and
didn't book a hotel or didn't realize there was a big festival on or something.
We arrived sort of mid evening, late evening, late evening and there was no hotelsavailable and I didn't pre book one thing.

(23:41):
Yeah, I'll it when I arrive.
Of course there was nothing.
So guess what?
there was no cars you could rent.
There no cars there.
So here's a low, self-induced low of our family trip as we got going, because we all sleptin the airport that night.
So again, it was eight, five and three olds.
now it's sinking in about what travel is for the boys.

(24:02):
So we actually slept in the airport that night and I got up very early the next morningand picked up the RV and came back and got everyone in.
And then we did our drive from Darwin.
Yeah, we stayed in Darwin.
Yeah, we stayed there for day or two then we did the drive.
It was an amazing trip and this is where I think the ages where they do have memories ofthis albeit sort of faint but they still do have memories that's been imprinted and the

(24:30):
highlights obviously were you
If you've not been to Australia or not seen the Northern Territory, then you should andtell your clients to.
It's stunning out of this world.
There's the Aboriginal culture, which is predominant in the Northern Territory or NorthernQueensland as well, which part of our collective desire for our kids is to, as much as
possible, immerse themselves in the cultures in which we visit.

(24:52):
So going to Australia, nine times out of 10, you're in the ...
coast and you're in Sydney, Melbourne, which is all English, predominantly colonialhistory and heritage.
It's when you get to the Northern Territory, Northern Queensland, you get to experienceand immerse yourself, if you so wish, in the First Nations of Australia, the Aboriginal
peoples' cultures.
I'll let Janna tell you all about a fantastic thing for an adult travelling on their own,but particularly for a family with an Aboriginal experience which was in Kakadu and Patsy.

(25:25):
Yes, so Patsy, I think all of our kids would remember that Patsy was our guide.
They would recognize her photo, uh Aboriginal woman.
she, so we did a uh probably, I remember at the time thinking this is so expensive, but itwas so worth it.

(25:45):
um I think at that time it was $650 for the family to go and do this, but it was probablya six hour trek that we did.
And it started off at her property where she was then living and she went and she got antsand smushed them and, you know, let us, she got them from the trees, scraped them off.
Sorry to interrupt, but she was a traditional Aboriginal woman.

(26:07):
She grew up as a hunter and gatherer in Arnhem Land, which is a protected area in theNorthern Territory, Northern Queensland.
ah So what she was showing us was not sort of what they used to do, it's what she did tothat day and how she lived for the most part.
Sorry.
Yeah, it was pretty impressive.

(26:28):
anyways, the ants were to cure headaches.
We did a, she went down to the water and earlier that day we had done a different tour onsome boats along the shore where they were pointing out all of the crocodiles.

(26:48):
And she went down to that very same shore and we had seen like a million crocodiles andshe was pulling reeds and made straws and necklaces for the boys.
And that's something I know that's imprinted in their minds.
Even our three year old will have faint memories.
And of course there's photos of it which helps.
For those who are watching our podcast.

(27:09):
Right and I think if you do take photos even at that young age, you know, there's there'slittle snippets that he he does remember Another another photo that we have of that which
is our classic and my favorite photo probably of our boys um At what point?
So what we did was we gathered all day we gathered Yeah, some

(27:33):
chestnuts or something like that that we had dug up we ripped bark from trees to make theyou know the hole that you dig and you bury your build the fire and bury your food
Again, sorry, again, but it's a very common cooking practice with throughout travels.
We've seen performed in New Zealand, in Australia with the aboriginals, in Peru with theIncan descendants.

(27:55):
It's a common practice and I've always been, this comes back to the joy of travel andhopefully our kids have seen this too now, that all these different disconnected societies
still came up with a lot of the very similar ways to do things and find, because I've beenin
rainforest all over the world and what a certain ant is used for in Costa Rica, theAboriginal people were doing the same thing.

(28:18):
that's something that's always fascinated me.
Sorry, again, I've interrupted you.
Sorry.
And so sorry.
yeah, the boys, they brought some of the things, of course we didn't hunt.
em And they brought these birds and there was two birds and we had to the feathers.
we have a photo of the two older boys, each holding up a dead bird by the feet.

(28:40):
And then the third boy with his lip out to here, pouting because he didn't have a deadbird.
oh It's a classic photo.
just put it up and you know, our party stories is when people see that photo is peoplethink our little guy Hayden is one with the power in lip was upset because the birds were
dead.
And as Janna says, no, it's not because they were dead.

(29:02):
It's because he didn't get a dead bird to pluck.
so yeah, so that was, you know, a very, as Janna says, it's a memory that has imprinted onthe boys to some degree, be it faint or stronger photos, obviously.
Hell.
So I just before I forget, I thought of it already, but there was one story from from thattrip.

(29:24):
Well, two stories, but just show go to traveling with young children and and you know,they live up to your expectations or they live up to the to the moment.
Because with Hayden, one of our first trips that we did after we picked up that RV is wedid a crocodile.
There's a crocodile farm with 10,000 crocodiles and you go there and.

(29:45):
you walk around there's a lot of walking and so Hayden we were having to he wanted to becarried a lot and he was three and so it was like okay we better go and buy a little
umbrella stroller so that night we did we went out we bought a little umbrella strollerwith a little flap over the top but um later on we were hiking um in Kakadu National Park

(30:10):
and all over the place uh
um And at points Hayden was climbing rocks, you know, that were twice the size of him andjust crawling up them.
We never, we were able to return the stroller.
He didn't need it.
um so, and one other, one other point, while we were in Kakadu, we were also on this boattour and we would buy like one, you know, two liter bottle of water for the family and

(30:34):
we'd be drinking it.
And a woman made a comment to me.
She goes, my gosh, look at your son.
He's drinking out of a two, he's three years old drinking from a
two liter water bottle and she said my grandkids drink from sippy cups.
So those are just two moments that I think imprinted in my mind where the boys lived up tothe moment.

(30:55):
I think, like I don't have any moments of despair on any of those trips, traveling withthe children.
Yeah, I know.
And again, as I say, I put in the podcast style, the highs and lows, that was just theeasiest way to sort of encapsulate.
But like we haven't experienced any lows per se challenges again with you travel withyoung children, you just deal with young people.
They can be a pain in the bum at times and have tantrums and so can the adults.

(31:19):
No, but they did.
No, to your point, they.
Yeah, yeah.
And they were like 20s.
Yeah, mid 20s.
um
But yeah, that's it.
I just, now you brought up the trekking and climbing rocks.
We did a walk around Kings Canyon.
And again, the boys are young and they were little troopers.

(31:40):
It was hot, Australia's hot.
We were there at the high season, so it wasn't crazy hot, but it was warm, warm.
And they just walked the canyon without a complaint.
In fact, one of them um had an accident while walking.
Yeah, yeah, he didn't fall and hurt himself.
m
pooped his pants.

(32:00):
uh So we had to deal with that up there and being conscious of not leaving anythingbehind.
But again, he literally took it in his stride.
he didn't.
was nothing, you know, he just stuck it in a bag and then took my sweater and wrapped itaround his waist and that was it.
so for us to like we wanted to expose our kids to it, know To an outdoor lifestyle becausein between all very international travels.

(32:24):
We do a lot of backcountry camping So it's not international travel, but it's still traveland we canoe in and out and the boys have gotten used to that Sort of more rustic way of
living when on holidays
The first year, the first time we can camped, had uh Ethan was two, Hayden's sail wouldhave been four, Hayden was in my belly, and I just remember Hayden, or Ethan, sorry, the

(32:51):
middle guy who was two having to carry his bucket and pail.
Yeah, shovel and pail.
He was helping his portage with his bucket and pail.
I've got a photo if I can find it, I'll put it up now.
But I think it was the first night or the second night there.
Oh, you got bitten by a whole lot of mosquitoes.
It's a very cute photo.
But again, there was no issues.

(33:12):
He was very, very, yeah, it is what it is.
Mind you, he's like two years old.
You sort of take it in your stride at that age.
But the point is, we've exposed our kids to the outdoor life, which is our choice.
Now, not everyone out there wants to live or...
you know, go back country camping.
not saying everyone should do it that way.
But travel in some formal fashion, be it to your local national park or be it to KakaduNational Park across the world is a fantastic way.

(33:37):
think you've heard us both agree to enlighten your children, your family.
It doesn't have to be just your kids.
It could be your grandparents who've maybe never traveled because I this might be probablynot, it might be in the same water, but your parents took their extended family.
to Cuba because it was something that Jana's father and mother wanted to do, uh have afull family because Jana's got a rather large, yeah, four, 16 of us.

(34:04):
down to Cuba.
And it was a resort thing, which is not our normal style, but never say no.
You can't say no to something until you try it.
And we actually did a resort.
I'm bouncing around our timelines here in Greece when sail was all of eight months old orsomething like that and that was the perfect environment for the time of our lives.
ah But yeah, we did a trip to Cuba to resort and had a really good time there as well andthe boys saw resort life as well as some local Cuban life.

(34:32):
Yeah, we did the excursion to Havana.
So we rented a, we rented, hired a driver and rented a van and he took just the family umdown to Havana, which was a really interesting part of that trip.

(34:56):
And you and I got to go scuba diving on that trip as well.
My brother-in-law and nephews all played golf at what they claim to be the most beautifulgolf course right on the coast.
So, you know, even though it was uh an all-inclusive, it really didn't feel like
that.
Yeah, well we sort of...
Consciously wanted to get off the resort as well.
So and again anyone can do that and again But when we did the Greg Warner, I think it'scalled in Greece.

(35:20):
We did get off the sorry mark Warner We did get off the resort a few times, but that wasreally We just had a baby more so my wife had just had the baby It was really that was a
week to because we were living in the UK at the time.
That was a week to Relax really relaxed.
So we did get off the resort there as well Was the next big trip we did was at Ecuador.
Okay, so this one's a bit of a fun one

(35:43):
So, I did all my driving, or most of it, in Latin America.
I love Latin America.
the Galapagos is unique, wonderful.
Nowhere else in world are you going to find it.
So that seemed like a logical choice for it.
it was Ethan's birthday?
Ethan said no, we left on Ethan's birthday.
So we okay, this is a bit of a low we did a surprise to the kids.

(36:05):
We didn't tell him we were going on vacation.
So when they got all ready to go to school that day, we said, Oh, no, get in the car.
We're gonna take you to Nana and Papa's we're gonna go visit them instead.
And we did.
And then we said, Okay, we're gonna say goodbye to them.
Now we're gonna go on a trip.
And, you know, we were gonna go to New York, we drove to New York.
to New York yet.
fly to Ecuador.

(36:26):
anyway, the surprise thing didn't work so well with Hayden, who I think was seven at thispoint in time.
um You know, he had a bit of a meltdown in the airport when it was time to board thatflight.
And, you know, I had their pajamas and their toothbrushes.
So we were going to the bathroom to brush his teeth and change his his pajamas.

(36:46):
And he was like, I want to sleep in my bed.
And it's like, okay, just chill.
Again, it seemed like a good plan at time.
So what we did is, as Janna said, we sort of said we were doing something else.
We drove to New York.
They were all asleep.
So when we woke up and I parked the car at the long-term parking, they still didn'tunderstand what was going on because they were still reasonably young.

(37:08):
It was like, yeah, we're going to Ecuador.
And they were so...
What?
And then again, as Janna says, our seven year old at the time, was probably a little bittoo much for him and he was tired, all that stuff.
there's one thing, surprising people and family about travel is good.
I did it to my wife on a trip we did together.

(37:30):
We went to a restaurant together and she was completely surprised.
We won't get into that story right now.
But yeah, you might want to plan your surprises.
So,
young kids aren't exhausted when you drop it on them.
They're about to fly halfway around the world.
But once we got over that or he got over it, uh it was a fantastic time.
Again, we had some fantastic cultural experiences there.

(37:52):
visited local villages, local communities.
did the equator visit.
You know, you balance an egg on the equator and you know, that is a great experience for achild.
the science experience.
Yeah, the science experiments and they really enjoyed that.
um There was also something, I don't know if I should tell this story, but there was likea display of all the different fish and wildlife and things like that that you find in the

(38:21):
Amazon and one was this fish with a very long snout and apparently if you, they say
urinate in the Amazon because this fish will swim up your penis, your urethra.
So that had a lasting impression in one of our little boys because years later we were alldown in Mexico with some other friends and it came up in discussion that one of those

(38:45):
other boys had peed in the pool and so we asked the boys, you pee in the pool?
And my middle guy was like, there's no way, right?
Like there's no way he would pee in any body of water.
because of this fish.
because of this fish.
that's the other thing I think too, like even just this weekend we were hiking and we wereseeing like this little, like these families that were kind of scaring their kids to

(39:10):
create excitement.
And these were young kids like saying, there's a bear down there.
And I had said, there's no bear, right?
Because I think you gotta look at things from the perspective of your children and protectthem from.
things on how they're interpreting it and if it's scary or not.
And another story comes to mind is when we just first arrived in Ecuador, you know, therewere people with big guns ah and the boys were like, where are we?

(39:38):
Right.
And, you know, we had been there several times.
We're just walking by them, not even noticing it.
And then when you see the kids look at this and even we did this volcano, we stayed inthis village on a dormant, the side of a dormant volcano.
So we were driving through the Ecuadorian countryside and there's a lot of homes thatdon't have windows in them.

(39:59):
And the boys were like, okay, are we staying?
Cause we were going to go stay with a family.
So they thought we were going to stay in uh a house with windows, no windows and lookedlike some of those villages.
And the oldest boy had played one of those video games and he said, it looks like, youknow, the houses in those video games.
And so, you know, I think if you're going to take the kids on,

(40:24):
and they're young to some of these different experiences.
Yeah, you gotta look at it from their perspective and make sure that they're comfortable.
Yeah, for sure.
Because we also did, I think the next trip we did was Peru.
And again, the kids are now sort of much older, much more in that sort of, not formidableyears, but formative years where truly what they're seeing and doing is going to have

(40:54):
direct impact.
to Jana's point, and this is one thing I know at times, talk about the lows, this issomething of frustration that Jana has at times.
our boys, and I'll talk about every kid, maybe don't show appreciation at the time aboutwhere they are or what's being offered to them.
And my counter is like, yeah, it's frustrating when you do all this for them and theydon't sort of show that.

(41:17):
Well, thank you, mum and dad.
But I was also looking at it from the other side that they're taking it in and this is ourkids, it doesn't apply to every kid out there, that it is affecting, they are seeing it.
having an impact on them.
And I said, no, you mightn't see it right now or the appreciation mightn't be there rightnow, but two, three years, four years, 10 years from now, it'll come out.

(41:38):
And we have seen from that Peru trip in particular, and we hope the recent and we'll sortof wrap up on our Africa trip in a minute, ah that it did have an impact, that the
appreciation is there now, versus being handed to us at the time.
uh Because a lot of this
Back to your point, at a younger age, they're taking it in, they're sort of processing itin their way, and this is where you have to be patient with looking at it through their

(42:03):
eyes, that their eyes might be processing it differently or slower, or different views onit, or, but our trip to Peru was fantastic.
We walked the Inca Trail together, which is, for those watching our podcast who would haveseen the photo at the beginning, at their introduction, our little guy Hayden, again, not
so little at the time, he'd be what, 13 at the time?
No, he would have been, I said 17, 15 and 10.

(42:27):
Oh, sorry, 12.
asthma so that was a concern during the Inca Trail at Altitude.
Again we took precautions, had all his puffers, he flew up and down like
had bottles of oxygen with us and everything.
And again, just so you know, Inca trails will cater for people with health issues likeasthma.
Most of them bring oxygen bottles as a standard precaution, but it was all there.

(42:50):
But he literally would walk ahead of us, get bored, walk back.
all the quarters called him a little mountain.
He basically walked the trail twice.
Again, we met with uh local communities, which is a big part of our travel plans.
We always want to interact as much as we can ah with local communities, so our kids andus, know, money back into local communities.

(43:12):
More importantly, our kids see that, you know, people don't all live in big houses withwindows.
Some don't, you know, and they will cook their meals in the ground and they're out in thefields every day behind oxen and cows.
Building Adobe bricks, walking to and from school.
that school could be three or four kilometres away at altitude.

(43:33):
So again, exposing them to how lucky they are and we're happy that they're lucky.
We're blessed that they're lucky, but hopefully giving them an appreciation, which I justsaid, I think we're now seeing as a truly mature, the understanding of that is now bearing
fruit of those trips.
So yeah, there was no real challenges.
think there was no lows.
Like again, we had no lows on any of our trips to be perfectly honest with our family.

(43:56):
It's all been positive experiences.
Yeah, it's more, you already touched on it.
Like, that's the challenge that we have.
Our kids are obviously, I think you've got the impression by now that our children arevery travel spoiled.
And they don't, uh they don't realize that.
And I guess in some respects, you can't blame them because that's the life that they know.

(44:20):
And that's what we value.
You know, we have
hand me down very old sofas in our house to compensate for we drive one car so you knowwhere we prioritize our lifestyle and our our our lifestyle and our finances I guess is
towards experiences.

(44:41):
experiences and travel in particular.
Like even, I'll joke, but it's not even a joke.
It's actually for real that, you know, I'm postponing my retirement by a year just to payfor the Africa trip.
So, it's worth it.
100 % to oh Yeah.
to all of us, to us, all of us being our family, which is why we're sitting here talkingtoday.

(45:03):
But they are spoiled, no argument.
ah But we're also, I'm also lucky because I've chosen to work in the travel industry,which does help make it more affordable.
So not cheap as everyone out there knows.
And particularly this day and age, all those sort of super deals are gone.
But if you work in the industry, uh you do have opportunities to do it cheap.

(45:24):
So that has helped us as well without a doubt uh So I'm gonna just quickly touch over oneother trip which wasn't it was supposed to be a family trip But didn't turn into a family
trip and then we'll finish off with our Africa trip So we had planned to go as a family toAntarctica And again, it was through it was through industry deals and opportunities.

(45:46):
So we planned all that And
Well, actually, there was only three of us to go and Hayden didn't even want to go.
We had to force him to go because COVID was threatening us.
So he said, I'm not leaving you home.
So you to go.
a step back.
So we planned it all to go and then University got in the way of one, then it was going tobe the four of us.

(46:10):
So I went down with my middle son, Ethan, he's a tree planter out west at the moment, andwe did some pre-stuff in Chile, Santiago down to Patagonia, and the intent was Janna and
Hayden, the youngest, were going to fly down to Ushuaia, meet us, yeah, Buenos Aires, andmeet us.
No, we were in Ushuaia.
Whatever.

(46:31):
We were going to meet up.
And we were in, as in my son and I were in Calafate, which is in Argentina.
We'd heard about this new thing happening.
Because again, when you travel to, even in the age of Internet, what I do, I don't stay ontop of the news.
I want to sort of get away from it to a degree.
I don't turn off completely.

(46:51):
so we did.
He and I had heard about this new bug flying around the world and down in Argentina at thetime, there was very little talk about it.
um
But he and I went out to the Galapagos Glacier in the morning and we came back that nightand were told that we had to get out of Argentina because the country was closing down.

(47:15):
And at the same time, this might not be exact timeline, but...
But Janna was also at the airport in Toronto waiting to fly out with Hayden.
down and she was very, very nervous for all the, because in Canada it was much bigger newsthan it was in Argentina, or literally where I was.
One thing led to another.
She didn't get on the plane because she was procrastinating.

(47:35):
It was the right decision in the long run and missed the cutoff.
Hayden was very nervous.
He didn't want to go.
didn't want to, so they didn't go.
And then literally, I think the next day actually, the timeline was Ethan and I were told,and we got out in the last plane out of Calafate to Buenos Aires.
what said was a ghost town.
got on a flight out of Mexico, Mexico City, Toronto, then we got locked down.

(47:58):
So that was the end of our Antarctica trip as a family.
So after COVID, we rescheduled, but two years have gone by maybe.
No, yeah, we had rescheduled twice more.
The second trip, then we decided the five of us could go because the older one who was inuniversity, you know, was working from home or staying from home or whatever.

(48:20):
But unfortunately, there was an outbreak about three weeks before we were about to leave.
that trip got cancelled again.
And then when we ultimately went, our youngest guy was in university.
so just three of us.
guy was in university, they couldn't go, so was just the three of us.
our Jonah and I and the middle guy.
So going back to the spoiltness of it all, um Ethan at the tender age, okay, so this leadsinto our Africa trip.

(48:46):
this is our last hurrah as a family where mom and dad are sort of sponsoring, financingit.
So we did the ultimate trip to Africa just recently.
um
South Africa, Zimbabwe, uh Zambia, and Botswana.
And it was stunning.
We did it with very good friends of mine from Australia, him and his son.

(49:07):
His wife couldn't join the trip.
It was amazing.
ah Actually, my best mate's son, ah Paul, his name is, he was on Australian Survivor.
ah And we didn't realize, well, we knew that, but we didn't know, and not did he for thatmatter, that Australian Survivor was very, very, very popular.
is filming or showing.

(49:27):
was showing in South Africa, but the series, the Australian version, was very popular inSouth Africa.
And I swear, we were there for three weeks, every day, except maybe two days when we wereup in Botswana, I think.
Yeah, and Kopama, which is a private game reserve in South Africa, the Greater Kruger.

(49:50):
Every day Paul was recognised by at least one, if not two or three people who wanted hisautograph.
That's a complete sight.
It's nothing to with family travel.
Family and friends travel, so get your friends along as well.
So that trip was like our last hurrah.
The boys are at mid-20s, early 20s.
This is definitely going to be a memory.
And it was without doubt one of the most, like they've all been good trips.

(50:11):
And again, we have been very spoiled.
memorable trip.
was, yeah, I just, you want to give some more superlatives about it.
Well, I wish we were having this broadcast just after we had arrived back home because Iknow I was flying high.
I was flying high on that trip, like a lot of times in that trip where I was likesquealing, because I do sometimes.

(50:38):
And just out of sheer excitement and joy.
And yeah, you don't get to do that all the time, but it was a really, really, reallyamazing experience.
For all of us from an individual level, I've had a lot of people here go away ask me whatwas your favorite part?
Because you know, did the Africa wildlife and for those who are on our Facebook group, youwould have seen I've posted a lot of my photos of the wildlife, a couple of little short

(51:04):
videos.
And those were Dawn's photos, even though it said four star, was little pretend signature.
uh
But people ask me what was the favorite bit and this goes back to something that wasmentioned in the introduction into the podcast and it's cliché, I don't want to say tacky,
it's not the right word, maybe over sentimental, but honestly seeing the look of the boysand I include Paul as my friend's son who was older than our guys, he was mid-30s I think.

(51:33):
he's traveled extensively as well, but watching them but our boys in particular, theireyes and their reactions to the wildlife.
primarily.
We did some cultural stuff.
uh Africa is Africa.
what just the music?
yeah, of course, Robben Island was a huge impact on everyone.
Well, that was more physical thing than a cult.

(51:54):
know if I'd call it hiking at the end.
It was crawling.
That was pretty tough.
But yeah, it's just watching the boys um and again
you're going to travel with seven guys, hire yourself a guide because they'll hang outwith you if you're slower.
There you go, yeah, see, because that's how I think Janna was the only female in our groupof seven, five, four, five, six guys in Janna.

(52:14):
Six guys, seven of But it goes back to what you were saying before, just looking at them,their reactions, and I think all those trips came to fruition in the Africa trip, it all
sort of came together, so to speak, of the experiences, and it was amazing.
Yeah, just watching them react to

(52:36):
encounters with the wildlife.
There was no sort of close encounters because that's not allowed.
But yeah, but just the closeness of wildlife.
Lions literally four feet from the vehicles.
Elephants like literally on the day we arrived for our wildlife experience at KapamaLodge, Corolla Lodge is one we stayed at.
are four within the Kapama family.

(52:57):
ah We drove from the airport, which is right outside the gate, into the park.
And I think we saw
just from the drive in and that evening for the big five.
And that was in a...
No, no, was, we saw the rhino the next day.
Yeah, the rhino the next morning.
So literally within the space of seven hours, accumulatively, we'd seen the big five andliterally feet from our safari vehicle.

(53:22):
saw lions at night.
We saw wild dog kills.
It was, it was an amazing trip.
And I've seen even...
Better photos of mine taken soon after we left.
Our guide had just photos which were National Geographic worthy.
Yeah, amazing guides.
Ian, if you're out there listening, thank you.

(53:43):
And Mr.
T.
Yeah, Dumba, thank you.
It was, yeah, like I'm a grizzled veteran traveler.
I've done a lot, seen a lot, but personally it was amazing getting back to Africa becauseI had been a few times.
The uplifting thing for me was as a dad watching my boys be uplifted themselves.
Would you say the same thing as a mum?

(54:06):
Of Of course, of course.
Okay.
Yeah.
So again, there weren't a lot of logistics about our conversation today.
It was more about the experiences and the joys of family travel.
You know, we admitted that I don't think you'll find any lows with it.
um
Any type of travel is a high, it's a learning experience.

(54:27):
it to Cuba, be it to Kakadu, be it to Algonquin.
uh
to a ranch in Alberta.
that's another one we did, is domestic travel, so to speak.
We have a friend who invited us.
He's one of Alberta's largest cattle ranches, and he invited us for three or four days tohis ranch.
And we saw a real Canadian cattle ranch run.

(54:50):
Hospitality was out of this world.
Their lifestyle was out of this world.
Again, I said to him, I said, you know, it's one of the most impactful trips we've everhad, and that's domestically to Alberta.
of all places, no disrespect to Alberta, like in Blue Our Socks off, uh in just how otherpeople live, like a cowboy in Alberta um breeding cattle.

(55:17):
We got to experience the Indigenous First Nations, the Métis as well, so we got to seethat.
So again, any type of family, any type of travel in general, of course, but we're talkingfamily here, is well worth it.
If there are lows, it's just the family dynamics that you're to run to, whether you'rehere in Toronto or Quito or whatever else.

(55:38):
um Just basically family dynamics.
um But you put that aside, you can deal with that.
Next sale, going back to the trip.
when we were in the Galapagos Islands and we went, we went, sorry, I'll keep this veryquick.
It's just that it was just like one of these moments that, you know, it ties me to my son.

(55:58):
And it's something that we'll always have.
And we were uh snorkeling.
And so there's this big wall and Don was with Hayden and I was with Seyo.
And, you know, I'm teaching him how to snorkel.
Like just keep your life.
You got to wear your life jackets.
It's going to keep you warm.
It's going to keep you safe and keep your arms here and just go calmly.
So there was this young couple that we were hanging out with a lot and the guy from thecouple came up and said, there's a shark out there by this point.

(56:25):
Do you want to go?
And I just looked at Sal and he really wanted to go.
So I said, sure.
And I said, just concentrate on your breathing.
Just go slow and you know, just all you do is think about your breathing and if we see it,don't, you know, just do that.
And so we did and he did and that was awesome.
But you guys, think saw a whole bunch of stingrays.

(56:48):
I want to jump on you.
I want to jump on your point there of the bonding experiences you'll have with yourchildren, be it collectively or individually.
And I'm going to finish off in a very soft, you know, I'm going to try and not shed a tearas I do this because I always do.
It was back to our Peru trip and we're walking the Inca Trail and I walked the Inca Trailmany times before, but like most things you forget how tough things are.

(57:09):
And I was, I wasn't struggling, but it was, you know, it was much tougher than I'dremembered it.
And I'm much older the last time I did it.
So.
m
our two youngest, Ethan and Hayden, is pretty much up and back, up and back, and motoredahead.
And on the Inca Trail, if you don't know, second day is the hardest.
You get to the highest point, which is called Dead Woman's Pass.
And as you approach that, it's continually up, up, up, up.

(57:32):
So you're going up in altitude.
You know, the attitude, you've to keep your head literally down and keep walking andwalking.
You will get there.
It's a challenge, right?
But it's, the ultimate sort of goal of walking the trail, other than getting too much of apicture of itself.
And
We were walking up, the other two had moved ahead.
I think you got there first.
Yeah.
Yeah, you got there first, you were waiting for us and I got to Devilman's Pass and Iturned around and sail was a little bit behind me, not far behind me, but as you got to

(58:01):
the top, I don't know why it happened, but we just fell into each other's arms.
We had a little cry, short little tear cry, a little hug and luckily my wife got a photoof it, which I'm going to unapologetically put up here.
on there because I'm very proud of it.
And it was just this moment, it wasn't planned obviously, don't know where it came from,but it did.

(58:22):
And then we got a photo of the three of us at the top and then we went and it's somethingthat he doesn't talk about, but I know he remembers it, I do, because I'm very proud of
him, very happy.
it was, it made, because going back to it, sorry, I thought I'd make this shorter.
When I was walking the trails of tour guide, I often said,
One day I want to bring my family back here.

(58:43):
This and I was younger and not married.
So I think that's where it came from for me that I was at Devilman's Pass with my familyand he was my oldest, my first born.
And here I was.
I'd done what I said I'd do however many years ago.
I was at Devilman's Path with my family and my oldest boy.
So I think that's where my emotion came from in that his I don't know, that's hisbusiness.

(59:04):
And that summed up family travel to me.
It was just that bonding.
I loved it.
And my wish to myself was to take my family to Africa one day.

(59:25):
So we both achieved our dreams of the past.
We're both very, very lucky in our respective careers.
ah We're lucky to meet each other and combine those two loves, the ability to finance andto take advantage of the travel industry and show our boys uh the world.
page.
Yeah, be on the same page.

(59:46):
Hopefully they're, well I know they are, good young men.
ah
very open-minded, very loving, very giving, very caring of everyone, all walks of life,all orientations.
I think that's part of their DNA, but I think the Travelers definitely helped enforce thatin them.
I'm very proud of them, very proud of you.

(01:00:07):
um And now I'm about to cry, and that's what family travel's all about.
making people better, making your kids better, seeing the wonderful world we have outthere.
And on that note, I'd like to thank my wife, Jana, for passing on her thoughts and somedarker secrets maybe she shouldn't have spoken about.

(01:00:29):
And for you listening to us indulging in our very blessed travel lifestyle.
I hope you can pass on these experiences um and offer the same passion to your clients ifthey approach you about.
family trip or you as a travel professional out there get if you don't do it I'm sure manyof you do get your family out there with you travel the world see whatever you can be from

(01:00:51):
the deck of a boat around the Caribbean the deck of a boat in Antarctica or the Galapagoswalking trails anywhere in the world or driving through the beautiful hills of Tuscany um
or the wineries of France whatever turns your crank get out there and do it with you andyour loved ones
On that note, thank you everyone for your time.

(01:01:11):
always, we really appreciate you listening in today.
And again, thank you, Jana.
uh