July 1, 2024 • 37 mins
Have you tried medications to improve or stabilise your hair loss?
In some circles, taking medication for female hair loss is seen as controversial.
So in this episode Bambi talks to Kate, a medical science researcher who also has hair loss to see what her take is on the studies and published papers around hair loss medication.
In Did You Know, Bambi also takes some time to talk about the different types of treatments for hair loss, including medications.
In this episode you’ll learn:
- What research papers say about hair loss medications
- How stimulants and blockers work in different ways to stabilise and/or improve hair loss
- What it’s like to find out you’re losing your hair at a young age, after also battling with a chronic illness.
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DISCLAIMER:
While Bambi is a former registered nurse with extensive knowledge on hair loss in women, she is not a medical doctor.
All information shared in this podcast is of a general nature.
Please see your GP or other medical professional for specific advice related to your circumstances.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello ladies, are you struggling with hairloss?
I want you to know you're not alone.
Hi, I'm Bambi Staveley, former registerednurse, author, founder of Boost & Blend
and someone who probably just like you hashad first -hand experience with hair loss,
which is all covered in my latest book,Hair Loss in Women.
(00:23):
When I noticed my own hair thinning 15years ago,
I went looking for information and I wentlooking for products for women, just like
you and me.
But all I could find out there wasproducts made for men.
And most of the information I could findwas about male pattern baldness.
Well, that's not much help.
So I set out to change that.
(00:44):
I want to see women with hair loss talkingabout it and talking to each other,
sharing their stories from a place ofknowledge.
So join me.
as I meet some courageous women.
I'll share some information and we'lllearn together on the Hair Loss in Women
podcast.
(01:10):
Hi there, welcome to Hair Loss in Women.
Today you're about to meet a young womanwho has hair loss, but also has a career
in research.
She's going to talk to us today about whatshe's found out about hair loss through
her own journey, yes, but also using heramazing research skills.
(01:31):
After that, in our Did You Know segment,we're also going to take a look at some of
the treatments for female hair loss.
Now, mostly these can be grouped into twopathways, stimulants and blockers.
So I'm going to explain more about that inour Did You Know segment.
But first up, it's time for our interview.
So let me introduce you to Kate.
(01:56):
Hello Kate, thanks for taking the time totalk to me on the podcast today.
It's lovely to have you.
Thank you.
When did you first notice you were losingyour hair?
I don't think I noticed for a while, to behonest.
So I have androgenic alopecia, just incase that needs to be disclosed from the
get -go.
And I noticed when I was 25 years old,sort of going towards 26 and
(02:24):
It was during COVID and we just had a lotof time alone in our homes.
Yeah, we did.
Didn't we?
Yes.
And I just sort of started to notice that,you know, when I was trying to entertain
myself, I've always been really into, Iguess, like primping myself and doing my
hair and my makeup and all that.
I probably went to do my hair and I justsort of noticed that it didn't look as.
(02:50):
Maybe like as nice as it used to.
And I sort of noticed, and I had noticedprobably for a little bit at that time
that it was looking a little bit thin anda little bit lackluster.
And I'd recently dyed it blonde for thefirst time.
So I wasn't sure if it was just that I'dbleach damaged it.
And then I started sort of going backthrough photos and I'd noticed that it was
a little bit thinner before then as well,but I didn't really think too much of it
(03:11):
at the time.
And then it wasn't until I started, youknow, I had a lot of free time that I,
every now and then I would just sort ofGoogle like, how can I thicken my hair up
again?
Or like make it look a bit nicer and a bithealthier that I started Googling reasons
why your hair can get thinner.
Right.
And then I saw like female pattern hairloss essentially.
And then I think I just sort of had alittle bit of like a, a stomach drop
(03:33):
moment when I was like, I think that'sactually it because sort of all these
other dots that I'd seen in my life that.
would sort of maybe allude to the factthat that's what was going on sort of all
just sort of became very apparent.
Like my mom has thin hair, my aunties allhad thin hair, my dad's bald.
And I'd actually had a friend a couple ofyears ago go through the same sort of
(03:57):
journey, but she didn't really say itexplicitly.
That's what she was going through.
So I knew a lot about it just because ofher.
And then when I started looking back,
through photos even before then, I startednoticing that the part of my hair, which I
think is the thinnest, I could see that ithad started changing at least visually for
me in photos from when I was about like21, 20 years old.
(04:19):
Yeah.
Okay.
So you didn't have a massive shed at anytime.
It just was a very gradual reduction inquality as well as quantity.
Yeah.
And it's really hard for me to say if Iever did have a massive shed because I was
someone that never really paid.
Too close attention to my hair because Ialways felt like I had quite nice hair.
(04:42):
So, you know, I used to brush it veryroughly and there would be like a decent
amount of, I never cleaned my hair brusheither.
So there was always a good amount of hairin my hair brush and you know, I have a
lot of chronic health problems as well.
So it's really hard to say that throughthose issues as well, going through
hospitalizations, being put on downaesthetic for like various procedures.
(05:05):
being put on pretty intense medications aswell, like steroids and that if that made
my hair shed at any point, I don't haveany recollection of it, but it's always
possible.
So, so tell me about that moment when youwere reading up on the internet and you
saw a female pattern hair loss.
Just tell me about how you felt when yousuddenly, it suddenly twigged for you that
(05:28):
that might be what you're dealing with.
I feel like my stomach dropped.
And it was very confronting because Ithink I was never under any dissolution
about what that meant.
I'm someone who has like a bit of abackground in health sciences and I've got
an autoimmune disease.
(05:49):
And so when I saw that and I sort of wasable to go through the process of do I fit
the pattern?
Which I did.
It was very real, very quickly, like whatthat could actually mean, which was like,
my gosh, I'm in my mid twenties and Iactually am losing my hair.
And I think I was just very, afraid about,I guess what the rest of my life moving
(06:13):
forward would look like.
And I'd already had a moment like that, Iguess in my early twenties, when I got my
autoimmune disease diagnosis, I wasreally, really sick at that time.
I couldn't work.
I couldn't, I had to take leave from mydegree cause I wasn't well enough to
finish my degree.
and so I had a moment there about like,what's my future going to look like?
I feel like, and I was a little bitfrustrated as well, cause I almost feel
(06:34):
like I had to face that again a secondtime.
Yeah.
But in a different way.
Yeah.
So can you tell me a little bit about thatautoimmune disease and what that is?
Yeah.
So I've got something called Crohn'sdisease, which is a type of an
inflammatory bowel disease.
And essentially what that is, is it meansthat my immune system recognizes my
(06:54):
gastrointestinal system as
being foreign and so it will attack it,which leads to chronic inflammation and
that can cause like damage to thedigestive tract.
So that current disease for me, especiallyat the time I was 20 years old when I got
that diagnosis and that came on veryquickly.
I didn't really have any gastrointestinalissues until maybe like eight months prior
(07:17):
to that diagnosis.
So it was a very rapid deterioration of myhealth and no one else in my family has
this disease either.
So it was very shocking and I was alwaysvery healthy.
And I love to eat.
I've always been like a big foodie.
And so I think a lot of people around mefelt very sad for me at the time because I
was like, well, what's this going to mean?
And I was really ambitious about my careeras well.
(07:38):
I was at the end of my uni degree at thetime, my undergrad, and I was trying
really hard to get into a postgraduatedegree and sort of follow down a very
specific pathway.
And I was really afraid at that pointabout like, am I even going to have a full
time job?
And like, what does this look like?
And am I ever going to be well enough to.
You know, do all these things that I putso much work into.
(07:59):
I think I had almost like a second momentof that with my hair loss, but it wasn't
with my job per se.
but it was all those other things in mylife that I'm like, well, I did all the
degrees.
I did my bachelor's, my honors.
I got my doctorate, which was reallyexciting.
Very exciting.
But like all those other milestones that Iwanted to do as well, like, I don't know,
(08:21):
get married one day and all that.
It was all of a sudden, like, what am Igoing to look like now for these other
milestones?
And.
It sounds frivolous and it's really hard,I think, to talk about that with other
people that have never gone through this,but that fear was very real.
Of course.
Because I think I was very attached to mylooks.
Well, can I just interrupt you there forpeople who are listening to this because I
can see you on the screen.
(08:43):
And to me, you look very healthy andbeautiful.
And you know, you've got beautiful longdark hair.
And I only mentioned that because it's sointeresting how our
Our gut feeling about this whole thingabout a chronic illness or hair loss seems
to take over.
(09:04):
It takes over our thinking.
As you said, you were even thinking aboutfuture milestones and what you might look
like in the future.
And of course, we don't know that, but youcertainly are surviving very well given
that you have these various problems thatyou have to deal with every day.
So do you have, do you feel you have todeal with these things every day or is
(09:26):
this something that you can let happen inthe background?
So once I got that hair loss diagnosis,that was probably, so I said, I had
noticed it at about 25.
It was like the following.
So that was 2020 is the following Februarythat I got that diagnosis.
I was 26.
And at that time, like it sort of broughton like a very intense depression for a
(09:50):
while.
where I like really socially isolatedmyself and I just felt like I couldn't be
seen by anyone, which in retrospect feelsso extreme because my friends saw me all
the time up until that point and nothingwould have like majorly changed, but they
would have even noticed the difference.
But for me, I felt all of a sudden sovisibly different and all I could see was
(10:12):
like how thin and how terrible I thoughtmy hair looked.
And so for a while that was an everydaything where
when I could no longer really justify thatself isolation, because I was finishing my
PhD at the time.
So I could kind of hide a little bit athome.
And people would have understood, I guessthey would have just, yeah, that would
have been your sort of excuse for being athome more than usual.
(10:35):
Yeah.
And that in itself is like an inherentlyextremely stressful time in your life.
So yeah, like that, that psychologicallyreally compounded for me.
And when I finished, I think I got torejoin the world again.
And I think with that, I sort of forcedmyself to see my friends more and actually
just go out.
(10:55):
Like I would go out like any 20 somethingwould, I would go to bars again and I
would do that.
And I always felt really self -consciousleading into it.
And then I think eventually, I think justbeing with my friends more, I stopped
caring as much.
And then I, as I said, as well, I had afriend who had gone through
All of this and she's been sort of dealingwith that ever since as well.
(11:17):
And she's not really a hundred percentsure what her final hair loss diagnosis
even is, but she's just treating itmedically anyway.
and so we always used to haveconversations as well about like, well,
what is the worst case scenario that wereally foresee for ourselves?
And in our heads, it was like maybeneeding to wear some sort of like hair
(11:37):
piece, maybe like earlier than what we.
comfortable with.
Like I think doing that at a young agefelt really intimidating.
And we just sort of were at peace withlike, well, if it happens, we'll just
cross that bridge.
We've got good friends.
Maybe we don't even really have to explainit.
It'll be fine.
And so I think now I don't really thinkabout it as much.
Great.
(11:57):
Anymore.
Well, that's good.
So tell me, did you see a doctor at anypoint in time over this?
So I was diagnosed by a dermatologist, but
even get referred to a dermatologist waslike fighting tooth and nail because I
would go to this GP and these GPs, I thinkthey just saw me as a little bit
(12:19):
hysterical.
Which if you've ever been in this positionand you know how important it is to like
understand what's happening, if you dowant to sort of intervene at all, I found
that incredibly
incredibly distressing at the time becauseI was really scared that no one was going
(12:40):
to be able to take me seriously and I wasnever going to get an official diagnosis.
And so I didn't have options essentiallywas how I saw that.
And then eventually one GP, a really nicefemale GP actually, she was just like, if
you really want a referral, it's nice toget off my back, have a referral.
So I did book in with a pretty well knowndermatology clinic that specializes in
(13:01):
hair loss here in Melbourne.
And they immediately, like even the womanthat just took my photos at the start
before I even saw the dermatologist, shejust took one look at my hand was like,
your hair is beautiful, but yeah, you, Ican tell that you probably got genetic
hair loss.
And that's what she said.
And it was strange because part of me feltlike a little bit deflated because I think
(13:22):
part of me was like still hoping itwouldn't be true, but the other part of me
felt so validated.
I went into the dermatologist, sheinspected my hair.
She took in my history and she was like,
is pretty typical female pattern, the hairloss.
Like you've got two parents with hairloss.
The pattern is similar.
I can see the point, the parts that arethinning.
You don't have any hair loss anywhereelse.
(13:42):
And then I sort of went away from thatappointment with some prescriptions, which
I started taking.
And then I had like a freak out.
Sorry to interrupt you, but what did youstart taking?
So she prescribed me a very, very low doseof spironolactone and then oral minoxidil.
And I left that appointment and I.
was feeling like somewhat in control.
(14:03):
And then I think I started having like alittle bit of like hair shedding and I
started experiencing like a little bit of,potential side effects from the spinal
lactone.
She's wasn't really sure.
And then I went back to her in a bit of apanic and she just reduced down my spinal
lactone a little bit.
I was freaking out in that appointment andshe just sort of looked to me and she
said, I understand that this is veryconfronting, but I looking at you.
(14:28):
You're going to be fine." She said, thisis the most predictable form of hair loss
that we manage in this clinic.
It doesn't sound it, but it is the bestkind of hair loss that you could hope for
in the sense that it's not going tosuddenly all fall out tomorrow.
So she said, you're going to be okay.
great.
And that was really reassuring.
Very reassuring.
(14:48):
Yeah.
I think I was very lucky that maybe I hadone of the female dermatologists in that
clinic instead of, cause some of the maledermatologists in that clinic are sort of
known for not having very good bedsidemanner.
okay.
which is fine, but it was what I needed tohear at the time.
And I think I just sort of like took adeep breath and sort of started to trust
the process.
and I've been working with her ever since.
And have you seen improvement?
(15:10):
Yeah, I would say so.
So my hairless medication journey has sortof gone up very slowly over the past two
years.
I started with.
just spironolactone and oral minoxidil andshe would like increase it at the tiniest
increments every like three months.
And you're continuing to see improvement?
(15:30):
Yeah.
So I'd say my hair definitely filled in insome spots, which is good, but not
dramatically, I would say.
Like the improvements were, I guess whatyou wanted, but it's not like I suddenly
have like this really thick head of hair.
Like it's still relatively fine, but itlooks like cosmetically it does look that
bit better.
(15:51):
and it has filled in some of the thinnerpatches that were a little bit more
obvious, I think.
and then the spironolactone, I don't takeit all anymore because I actually couldn't
tolerate it very well.
so we tapered me off of that.
And now I take by colloidomide instead,which is like a, another anti -antigen
sort of type style medication to stop itfrom progressing.
(16:12):
And I would say, if anything, my hair isjust stable.
Given that you have a PhD and obviouslyyou have a tendency towards research, I
guess those research skills would havecome in handy for you with your quest to
find solutions or causes for your hairloss.
(16:34):
So did you or what have you been able tofind?
I feel very lucky that I already had thattraining sort of going into this entire
journey because I think if I didn't...
It could have looked very differently inall honesty, because I think when you just
Google this and you try to find other,like there are really small pockets of the
internet where you can find and connectwith other women on this.
(16:56):
They are scary places.
And there's a lot of, there's a bigdialogue, I think in these spaces where
there's a really large group of women whodon't believe in treating hair loss
medically.
And a lot of that language, I remember atthe time I found very extreme.
Like I would see people describemedication as toxic, as being like
(17:21):
inherently dangerous or bad for you.
And I just sort of, I guess I knew better.
And I think maybe because I've alreadytaken, like I take pretty intense
medications for my Crohn's as well.
I take like immunosuppressants and stuffwhere the long -term side effects can be
cancer.
So I think in my head, I was like, I thinkthat's a really simplistic way of looking
at treatment for like a long -term issue.
(17:44):
And so when I started looking at likeactual research articles and I've got the
training to understand, you know, what ahigh quality research article is and sort
of what study conditions should be met andlike where to and how to interpret
research findings.
I really did feel like it was worth tryingbecause while there are adverse events,
(18:07):
From what I could see, a lot of it wasdose dependent, which makes sense.
And that's the case for most medicationsreally on the market.
Like regardless of what it is, most sideeffects are managed through dose.
So I think that's as well why I've alwayssort of stuck to the lower end of the
dosing for my medication as well.
Some people had incredible improvements insome of these studies that I saw as well,
where they would have like the photos atthe different time points.
(18:28):
That was pretty incredible.
Also, what I saw was a lot of people, evenif they didn't have these dramatic
improvements, they did have.
stabilization and my hair loss when I wentin was still pretty mild, that I was like,
at the very least, if I could just stop itfrom getting worse and this is what it
looks like.
Like I do miss my old hair.
I feel like I can't do as much with it,but I'm comfortable with it and I'm happy
(18:49):
with it.
In these spaces, when I would try toshare, you know, my own journeys and my
own experiences, I noticed two thingswould happen.
I would have private messages from twotypes of people.
I would have private messages from womenwho would
criticize me and say that I was beingharmful to the community, essentially, and
(19:10):
saying that I should just give up and thatthese medications aren't going to do
anything for me and I'm putting my hope insomething that's harmful for me and I
shouldn't be promoting it to other peopleand to just buy a wig and move on with my
life.
And then I saw other women who I noticedwould never actually post anything
themselves, but they would flood myprivate messages being like,
(19:32):
Can you tell me everything?
I'm so scared.
So I did find that it was almost like kindof taboo.
I'm really glad that I had that trainingto be able to make a decision for myself.
Otherwise I probably would have neverpursued it.
If I let that messaging get to me, itwould have probably put me off if I was
someone else because the language wasintensely fear -mongering, I would say.
(19:54):
Is that what you meant earlier when yousaid, looking on the internet around
female hair loss?
you end up in some scary places.
Is that the sort of thing you were talkingabout?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Scary places.
And I always put it out there as well.
And I am potentially, if anyone'slistening to this, I think it's helpful to
put it out on record that people thatcongregate and are really present in these
(20:18):
groups are not the people that are doingwell with something like just
statistically, there are so many morewomen that live with this sort of hair
loss that are probably out there justliving their lives.
probably relatively unbothered by itbecause they found a way to like deal with
it in a way that they feel fine with.
And we know that like through, like I knowthat through my research as well, cause I
(20:39):
research chronic illnesses and that's theproof of other chronic illnesses as well.
People in these like online spaces wherethere's like forums or support groups,
whatever, they're usually the people thatare doing it the worst and they're not
really representative of what the majorityof people are like who live with these
things.
And I, I,
felt so bad and I always took it uponmyself for a while for at least that first
(21:02):
year to keep posting updates about, youknow, every time I went to my
dermatologist, like what she would say andlike how we would tailor my medication and
what improvements I was noticing.
And if I wasn't noticing any side effects,I was always very transparent because I
felt like no one else was doing that.
And the noise was.
(21:24):
honestly, just like buy a wig and move on.
And some of these wig companies havereally good marketing as well.
And it's so funny to me because in myhead, there's like an interim in between
that as well.
Like you can do other cosmetic things thatdon't require you needing to buy a $3 ,000
hair piece.
Just feel like your hair looks better.
Like you can do other things as well tojust fill it in and make it look fuller.
(21:47):
And so I also found like these spaces werejust very.
one lens really, they're very narrow and Ididn't quite like that.
So I did try to push it back against it,but I don't really engage in them anymore
because I just found it was taking toomuch time to have people messaging me
telling me that I was wrong.
Well, and I should probably say that thereare really some great communities out
(22:09):
there who do some wonderful things tosupport women.
But I guess the message really is to treadvery carefully if you're looking at
joining a group.
and read through previous posts and have alook at sort of the general, I think the
general overall tone and attitude ofpeople in the group and find a group
that's right for you.
(22:30):
And also don't listen to everybody on theinternet.
There's so much terrible information outthere.
So much bad advice.
Yeah.
And I did make some friends along the wayand some people that I sort of still keep
in touch and I found finding other younggirls my age really hard.
And they were the people that would sortof more pop up in a DM rather than I would
(22:52):
see them posting.
I guess it depends.
I just found for the medication side ofthings, there really wasn't a lot.
Well, I also just want to mention that oneof the pieces of advice about minoxidil in
particular is, and for women out there whomight be thinking, should I, shouldn't I,
you know, they've heard all the naysayersand all the accusations of all the sort of
(23:15):
terrible things.
The thing that's really important to getacross is that the earlier, the sooner you
get onto minoxidil, the more likely itwill be to have an effect.
And even if all it does is stop ashedding, an ongoing problem, then it at
least keeps your baseline where you arenow.
(23:36):
Of course, as in your case, it can improvethings.
And so I just want to say that for peoplewho are worried about it, the longer you
wait,
The harder it will be because you becausehair loss, if it's just a the type that
just progresses, it will just continueuntil you can arrest it with something.
(23:57):
And and minoxidil is, you know, known theworld over to be good for this.
And you don't have to take tablets.
There is a topical treatment as well.
Yeah.
And I think on that note as well, theother thing that people are scared of with
the minoxidil is that
you end earlier, the better is absolutelytrue, which is why I felt that pressure to
get in to see that specialist that couldrecommend what I needed to do.
(24:21):
but I find the other discourse that comesup is, well, you have to use it forever.
Otherwise your hair will fall out andthat's really off putting for a lot of
people.
And I think to that, the thing that I wantto say is I see my hair loss as, as
legitimate as any other chronic condition,which you might.
choose to manage medically.
(24:42):
Absolutely.
And so I will take medication for the restof my life and my Crohn's disease and the
same with my hair loss medication.
I see it as I'll take it.
I'll probably take it until I choose tohave kids one day, hopefully.
And then I'll take a break and then I'llgo back on it.
And I'm happy with that choice.
(25:03):
And I don't care that the hair that I'vehad so far, I don't know who knows what
it's even doing and how much I'll lose,but I will.
Go back to it because again, it's a way ofmanaging a long -term chronic condition
and just because it's hair loss doesn'tmean it isn't legitimate enough to, I
think, justify some sort of ongoingmedical intervention, which is another bit
(25:26):
of dialogue I saw come up a lot.
While it might not be inherently harmingmy health physically, the psychological
and the psychosocial effects of hair lossshould never be minimized.
And I think if you want to
do that long -term to minimize thoseimpacts, that's just as valid and just as
worthy as say like my autoimmune disease.
(25:49):
So I don't see that as being a reason whyyou shouldn't try minoxidil.
I just think that that's a decision youneed to make for yourself.
For me, it was a no brainer really.
Thank you, Kate.
I really have loved listening to you talkabout that because I think what you're
saying is what's so important to get outthere.
So it's actually been wonderful.
(26:09):
to have you on the podcast today.
So thank you very much.
And I think also given your researchbackground, it's really been very
interesting to hear somebody who's really,really looked into this and made the
decision that you've made.
So thank you.
It's my pleasure.
And I hope that, you know, if anyonelistens to my, I guess, journey through
(26:31):
this, that maybe it encourages them to atleast consider things from a different
perspective as well.
I think
If I could go back to who I was a fewyears ago when all of this started, I
don't recognize that version of myselfbecause she was so sad and she was so,
like she felt so hopeless.
And I think now I would be lying if I saidthat there were parts about my future with
(26:55):
hair loss that don't intimidate me.
Like, you know, I've got a really niceboyfriend now who's very loving and I
could see us having kids in that one day,but you know, it's still.
is intimidating the thought that he knowsme as I am now.
What will I look like when I stop mymedication to do that?
I think that's still a very legitimatefear, but I feel much better moving
(27:17):
forward that it will be okay.
And regardless of what you choose to do,you can still live a very happy life with
hair loss.
Wow.
Well said, Kate.
What a beautiful attitude you have.
And thank you for giving that your time sothat other people
and other women, and particularly youngwomen, can hear your words and hopefully
(27:38):
that will make a difference to them.
So thank you so much.
Thank you.
I really appreciate you having me on.
Well, I hope you enjoyed hearing from ayoung, intelligent woman who has
researched hair loss and the treatment sothoroughly and to find out that she's okay
with taking medication, whichinterestingly enough,
(27:59):
is actually the topic of our Did You KnowToday?
Because we're going to look at thedifferent ways stimulants and blockers
work for women with hair loss.
For this Did You Know?
I want to look at some of the treatmentsfor female hair loss.
So in general, there are two types oftreatment pathways that have been proven
(28:21):
to help some women.
And those are stimulants, stimulating thehair follicle, and blockers, which
generally block DHT, which we'll talk moreabout in a minute.
So under the category of stimulants, thereis minoxidil, and then there's
light therapy.
And in the category of blockers there aremedications like spirinalactone,
(28:48):
Cyprotorone and a few others which we'lltalk about.
So let's talk about stimulants first.
So they do exactly what their namesuggests.
They stimulate the hair follicle and thenthat encourages hair growth.
They can either be applied as a topicalcream or
taken in a tablet form as a medication.
(29:10):
But of course they don't treat theunderlying cause.
So that's something to always keep in mindthat if you do take a stimulant and you
are treating hair loss that way, it wouldbe good to also treat the underlying cause
to get to the bottom of the cause of yourhair loss.
So, minoxidil also you might see that inthe chemist's Rogaine or Regaine.
(29:33):
That's really the universally accepted
best stimulant treatment that there is.
It comes as a topical, meaning you put iton your scalp, topical cream or a foam and
those are available over the counter soyou don't need a script for that.
You would need a script for the oralmedication though.
(29:55):
Medoxidil works as what's called avasodilator which actually means that it
opens up the blood vessels and
In that, it increases blood flow andtherefore it increases blood flow to the
hair follicle.
And what then happens is the hair folliclegets slightly healthier.
So it will elongate the growth cycle.
(30:18):
So the hair will grow for longer andthat's known as the anagen or the growth
phase.
And it can also decrease the sheddingrate.
So just an aside about shedding, peoplewho take minoxidil and in groups online
talk about
what's known as the dread shed.
So that's the shed that happens when tosome people when they take Mendoxidil.
(30:40):
But what I want to say is that's a goodthing.
It shows that the Mendoxidil is working.
So the new hair that is growing is pushingout the old hair.
So that's a really good sign.
It's a good sign that Mendoxidil isworking for you.
So if that does happen, keep going.
Don't give up because of the shed.
The good
(31:01):
will come, the goodness will come, hairwill grow.
But of course replacement hair won't comethrough for at least three months as the
follicle regathers itself and starts toproduce a new hair.
So you do have to stick with Mendoxidilfor a good six to 12 months.
Don't give up before then.
(31:22):
Now the second thing that Mendoxidil cando is over time increase the hair's
diameter.
So actually make the hair slightlythicker, but that does take a longer
period of time.
So again, if you're going to do somethinglike tetaninoxidil, keep going, keep
going.
It's really worthwhile.
But it isn't a cure, as I said.
It will only work for as long as you takeit.
(31:44):
It generally takes, you know, a good sixmonths to see any results.
Some do see a result at four months, butlet's just expect six months to see any.
any result and realistically it could evenbe closer to a year.
So don't give up.
It's available over the counter, thetopical version and it's safe to use.
(32:06):
Also because it's a topical treatment Ijust want to say you apply it to the hair
follicle and you don't apply it to thehair.
So don't saturate the hair with it, justget it in and onto your follicles and you
will hopefully see some result.
Now another hair growth stimulant
has had some success is a low level lasertherapy.
(32:28):
Now you might have seen these advertised,they come as a cap and they also come as a
kind of a weird looking contraption thatyou put on your head.
But the infrared light promotes tissuerepair and that stimulates the activity
within the cells of the hair follicle.
So you can do this in two main ways.
(32:48):
You can go to a hair loss clinic for atreatment.
or you can actually use a laser device athome and the cap is actually quite good.
It really does just look like a baseballcap.
Obviously going to a clinic is moreexpensive and takes more time, but if you
are thinking of doing something at home, Iwould just say, buy beware.
(33:12):
This is one of those things that you willget what you pay for.
So if you go for something cheap,
it won't have as much infrared light in itand therefore probably won't work as well.
So just be aware that you get what you payfor.
You can use both monoxidil and the lasertherapy together.
They work in different ways.
(33:34):
They both stimulate hair growth, but theydo it in different ways.
Okay.
So that's the stimulant side of things.
What about blockers and why would we needblockers?
Well, in men,
the conversion of testosterone into DHTwhich is short for dihydrotestosterone.
(33:55):
That is known as the cause of male patternhair loss.
But as we know female hair loss is muchmore complex.
There is no one single cause.
Although it is believed that in some womenDHT may play a role in their hair loss.
In the blockers, the blockers that areavailable for women are spirinolectone,
(34:19):
which we sort of shorten to SPIRO, andciproteron acetate.
Now, both of these are anti -androgenicpharmaceutical drugs.
They work by reducing the production ofandrogens, which are the male hormones,
and block the DHT receptors on the scalp,so hence the term blockers.
(34:39):
But in women, the results have been verymixed.
So due to the much higher levels of DHT inmen and the fact that the cause of male
pattern hair loss is known to be relatedto the production of DHT, it does work
well for men.
But there are many scientists who believeandrogens don't play any part in female
(35:00):
hair loss.
And in fact, in one study, they concludedthere was no clear reason as to why
Sperinolactone worked for some women andnot others.
So that does sort of...
cast some question mark over it.
But there are other blockers.
Finasteride is another one, which is adrug for male baldness, and that works by
reducing the concentration of DHT in theblood.
(35:23):
The studies for these blockers in men arereally positive, and yet not
overwhelmingly so.
And really, mucking around with hormonesis a very delicate business.
In a study for women, there really were noclear signs of improvement.
Certainly with finasteride, nowfinasteride isn't approved by the FDA for
(35:46):
women because it is known to cause somebirth defects.
So certainly not in young women.
I believe women past menopause might betempted.
And of course you'd have to go and do allthis through a doctor, of course, because
you'd need it to be prescribed.
So it is probably a risky choice, butSpiro, Spironolactone seems to be the main
(36:07):
blocker used in the female hair losscommunity.
All of these treatments are just that,they're treatments and they're not really
cures as such.
You really do need to get to the bottom ofthe cause of your hair loss or the causes
you might have more than one cause.
But they could help to alleviate some ofthe symptoms as you work to find out what
(36:28):
your underlying causes are.
So with any of these treatments that I'vetalked about today, please just make sure
that you do anything like this inconsultation with a doctor.
don't start taking these things withouthaving some sort of medical guidance.
And I don't want anything that we say onthe podcast to appear to be any sort of
(36:50):
medical guidance.
You really need to use your own doctor forthat.
So that brings us to the end of anotherepisode of the Hair Loss in Women podcast.
I hope you've enjoyed hearing from Kateand also learning just a little bit more
about some of the treatments that are outthere for hair loss.
And remember, as I like to say,
Kindness is beautiful, so wear it everyday.
(37:14):
Thanks for joining me on the Hair Loss inWomen podcast.
And a big thank you to the women who sharetheir stories here and with others in
their community.
One of the hardest things about hair lossfor women is that we don't talk about it.
So if you do want to hear more, pleasesubscribe to the podcast.
And if you like what you heard, why notleave a review?
(37:36):
Positive reviews will help other women.
to find this podcast too.
You can also find out more in my book,Hair Loss in Women.
This podcast has been recorded in Sydney,Australia and is produced by Pod and Pen
Productions.
Hello ladies, are you struggling with hairloss?
I want you to know you're not alone.
Hi, I'm Bambi Staveley, former registerednurse, author, founder of Boost & Blend
and someone who probably just like you hashad first -hand experience with hair loss,
which is all covered in my latest book,Hair Loss in Women.
(00:23):
When I noticed my own hair thinning 15years ago,
I went looking for information and I wentlooking for products for women, just like
you and me.
But all I could find out there wasproducts made for men.
And most of the information I could findwas about male pattern baldness.
Well, that's not much help.
So I set out to change that.
(00:44):
I want to see women with hair loss talkingabout it and talking to each other,
sharing their stories from a place ofknowledge.
So join me.
as I meet some courageous women.
I'll share some information and we'lllearn together on the Hair Loss in Women
podcast.
(01:10):
Hi there, welcome to Hair Loss in Women.
Today you're about to meet a young womanwho has hair loss, but also has a career
in research.
She's going to talk to us today about whatshe's found out about hair loss through
her own journey, yes, but also using heramazing research skills.
(01:31):
After that, in our Did You Know segment,we're also going to take a look at some of
the treatments for female hair loss.
Now, mostly these can be grouped into twopathways, stimulants and blockers.
So I'm going to explain more about that inour Did You Know segment.
But first up, it's time for our interview.
So let me introduce you to Kate.
(01:56):
Hello Kate, thanks for taking the time totalk to me on the podcast today.
It's lovely to have you.
Thank you.
When did you first notice you were losingyour hair?
I don't think I noticed for a while, to behonest.
So I have androgenic alopecia, just incase that needs to be disclosed from the
get -go.
And I noticed when I was 25 years old,sort of going towards 26 and
(02:24):
It was during COVID and we just had a lotof time alone in our homes.
Yeah, we did.
Didn't we?
Yes.
And I just sort of started to notice that,you know, when I was trying to entertain
myself, I've always been really into, Iguess, like primping myself and doing my
hair and my makeup and all that.
I probably went to do my hair and I justsort of noticed that it didn't look as.
(02:50):
Maybe like as nice as it used to.
And I sort of noticed, and I had noticedprobably for a little bit at that time
that it was looking a little bit thin anda little bit lackluster.
And I'd recently dyed it blonde for thefirst time.
So I wasn't sure if it was just that I'dbleach damaged it.
And then I started sort of going backthrough photos and I'd noticed that it was
a little bit thinner before then as well,but I didn't really think too much of it
(03:11):
at the time.
And then it wasn't until I started, youknow, I had a lot of free time that I,
every now and then I would just sort ofGoogle like, how can I thicken my hair up
again?
Or like make it look a bit nicer and a bithealthier that I started Googling reasons
why your hair can get thinner.
Right.
And then I saw like female pattern hairloss essentially.
And then I think I just sort of had alittle bit of like a, a stomach drop
(03:33):
moment when I was like, I think that'sactually it because sort of all these
other dots that I'd seen in my life that.
would sort of maybe allude to the factthat that's what was going on sort of all
just sort of became very apparent.
Like my mom has thin hair, my aunties allhad thin hair, my dad's bald.
And I'd actually had a friend a couple ofyears ago go through the same sort of
(03:57):
journey, but she didn't really say itexplicitly.
That's what she was going through.
So I knew a lot about it just because ofher.
And then when I started looking back,
through photos even before then, I startednoticing that the part of my hair, which I
think is the thinnest, I could see that ithad started changing at least visually for
me in photos from when I was about like21, 20 years old.
(04:19):
Yeah.
Okay.
So you didn't have a massive shed at anytime.
It just was a very gradual reduction inquality as well as quantity.
Yeah.
And it's really hard for me to say if Iever did have a massive shed because I was
someone that never really paid.
Too close attention to my hair because Ialways felt like I had quite nice hair.
(04:42):
So, you know, I used to brush it veryroughly and there would be like a decent
amount of, I never cleaned my hair brusheither.
So there was always a good amount of hairin my hair brush and you know, I have a
lot of chronic health problems as well.
So it's really hard to say that throughthose issues as well, going through
hospitalizations, being put on downaesthetic for like various procedures.
(05:05):
being put on pretty intense medications aswell, like steroids and that if that made
my hair shed at any point, I don't haveany recollection of it, but it's always
possible.
So, so tell me about that moment when youwere reading up on the internet and you
saw a female pattern hair loss.
Just tell me about how you felt when yousuddenly, it suddenly twigged for you that
(05:28):
that might be what you're dealing with.
I feel like my stomach dropped.
And it was very confronting because Ithink I was never under any dissolution
about what that meant.
I'm someone who has like a bit of abackground in health sciences and I've got
an autoimmune disease.
(05:49):
And so when I saw that and I sort of wasable to go through the process of do I fit
the pattern?
Which I did.
It was very real, very quickly, like whatthat could actually mean, which was like,
my gosh, I'm in my mid twenties and Iactually am losing my hair.
And I think I was just very, afraid about,I guess what the rest of my life moving
(06:13):
forward would look like.
And I'd already had a moment like that, Iguess in my early twenties, when I got my
autoimmune disease diagnosis, I wasreally, really sick at that time.
I couldn't work.
I couldn't, I had to take leave from mydegree cause I wasn't well enough to
finish my degree.
and so I had a moment there about like,what's my future going to look like?
I feel like, and I was a little bitfrustrated as well, cause I almost feel
(06:34):
like I had to face that again a secondtime.
Yeah.
But in a different way.
Yeah.
So can you tell me a little bit about thatautoimmune disease and what that is?
Yeah.
So I've got something called Crohn'sdisease, which is a type of an
inflammatory bowel disease.
And essentially what that is, is it meansthat my immune system recognizes my
(06:54):
gastrointestinal system as
being foreign and so it will attack it,which leads to chronic inflammation and
that can cause like damage to thedigestive tract.
So that current disease for me, especiallyat the time I was 20 years old when I got
that diagnosis and that came on veryquickly.
I didn't really have any gastrointestinalissues until maybe like eight months prior
(07:17):
to that diagnosis.
So it was a very rapid deterioration of myhealth and no one else in my family has
this disease either.
So it was very shocking and I was alwaysvery healthy.
And I love to eat.
I've always been like a big foodie.
And so I think a lot of people around mefelt very sad for me at the time because I
was like, well, what's this going to mean?
And I was really ambitious about my careeras well.
(07:38):
I was at the end of my uni degree at thetime, my undergrad, and I was trying
really hard to get into a postgraduatedegree and sort of follow down a very
specific pathway.
And I was really afraid at that pointabout like, am I even going to have a full
time job?
And like, what does this look like?
And am I ever going to be well enough to.
You know, do all these things that I putso much work into.
(07:59):
I think I had almost like a second momentof that with my hair loss, but it wasn't
with my job per se.
but it was all those other things in mylife that I'm like, well, I did all the
degrees.
I did my bachelor's, my honors.
I got my doctorate, which was reallyexciting.
Very exciting.
But like all those other milestones that Iwanted to do as well, like, I don't know,
(08:21):
get married one day and all that.
It was all of a sudden, like, what am Igoing to look like now for these other
milestones?
And.
It sounds frivolous and it's really hard,I think, to talk about that with other
people that have never gone through this,but that fear was very real.
Of course.
Because I think I was very attached to mylooks.
Well, can I just interrupt you there forpeople who are listening to this because I
can see you on the screen.
(08:43):
And to me, you look very healthy andbeautiful.
And you know, you've got beautiful longdark hair.
And I only mentioned that because it's sointeresting how our
Our gut feeling about this whole thingabout a chronic illness or hair loss seems
to take over.
(09:04):
It takes over our thinking.
As you said, you were even thinking aboutfuture milestones and what you might look
like in the future.
And of course, we don't know that, but youcertainly are surviving very well given
that you have these various problems thatyou have to deal with every day.
So do you have, do you feel you have todeal with these things every day or is
(09:26):
this something that you can let happen inthe background?
So once I got that hair loss diagnosis,that was probably, so I said, I had
noticed it at about 25.
It was like the following.
So that was 2020 is the following Februarythat I got that diagnosis.
I was 26.
And at that time, like it sort of broughton like a very intense depression for a
(09:50):
while.
where I like really socially isolatedmyself and I just felt like I couldn't be
seen by anyone, which in retrospect feelsso extreme because my friends saw me all
the time up until that point and nothingwould have like majorly changed, but they
would have even noticed the difference.
But for me, I felt all of a sudden sovisibly different and all I could see was
(10:12):
like how thin and how terrible I thoughtmy hair looked.
And so for a while that was an everydaything where
when I could no longer really justify thatself isolation, because I was finishing my
PhD at the time.
So I could kind of hide a little bit athome.
And people would have understood, I guessthey would have just, yeah, that would
have been your sort of excuse for being athome more than usual.
(10:35):
Yeah.
And that in itself is like an inherentlyextremely stressful time in your life.
So yeah, like that, that psychologicallyreally compounded for me.
And when I finished, I think I got torejoin the world again.
And I think with that, I sort of forcedmyself to see my friends more and actually
just go out.
(10:55):
Like I would go out like any 20 somethingwould, I would go to bars again and I
would do that.
And I always felt really self -consciousleading into it.
And then I think eventually, I think justbeing with my friends more, I stopped
caring as much.
And then I, as I said, as well, I had afriend who had gone through
All of this and she's been sort of dealingwith that ever since as well.
(11:17):
And she's not really a hundred percentsure what her final hair loss diagnosis
even is, but she's just treating itmedically anyway.
and so we always used to haveconversations as well about like, well,
what is the worst case scenario that wereally foresee for ourselves?
And in our heads, it was like maybeneeding to wear some sort of like hair
(11:37):
piece, maybe like earlier than what we.
comfortable with.
Like I think doing that at a young agefelt really intimidating.
And we just sort of were at peace withlike, well, if it happens, we'll just
cross that bridge.
We've got good friends.
Maybe we don't even really have to explainit.
It'll be fine.
And so I think now I don't really thinkabout it as much.
Great.
(11:57):
Anymore.
Well, that's good.
So tell me, did you see a doctor at anypoint in time over this?
So I was diagnosed by a dermatologist, but
even get referred to a dermatologist waslike fighting tooth and nail because I
would go to this GP and these GPs, I thinkthey just saw me as a little bit
(12:19):
hysterical.
Which if you've ever been in this positionand you know how important it is to like
understand what's happening, if you dowant to sort of intervene at all, I found
that incredibly
incredibly distressing at the time becauseI was really scared that no one was going
(12:40):
to be able to take me seriously and I wasnever going to get an official diagnosis.
And so I didn't have options essentiallywas how I saw that.
And then eventually one GP, a really nicefemale GP actually, she was just like, if
you really want a referral, it's nice toget off my back, have a referral.
So I did book in with a pretty well knowndermatology clinic that specializes in
(13:01):
hair loss here in Melbourne.
And they immediately, like even the womanthat just took my photos at the start
before I even saw the dermatologist, shejust took one look at my hand was like,
your hair is beautiful, but yeah, you, Ican tell that you probably got genetic
hair loss.
And that's what she said.
And it was strange because part of me feltlike a little bit deflated because I think
(13:22):
part of me was like still hoping itwouldn't be true, but the other part of me
felt so validated.
I went into the dermatologist, sheinspected my hair.
She took in my history and she was like,
is pretty typical female pattern, the hairloss.
Like you've got two parents with hairloss.
The pattern is similar.
I can see the point, the parts that arethinning.
You don't have any hair loss anywhereelse.
(13:42):
And then I sort of went away from thatappointment with some prescriptions, which
I started taking.
And then I had like a freak out.
Sorry to interrupt you, but what did youstart taking?
So she prescribed me a very, very low doseof spironolactone and then oral minoxidil.
And I left that appointment and I.
was feeling like somewhat in control.
(14:03):
And then I think I started having like alittle bit of like hair shedding and I
started experiencing like a little bit of,potential side effects from the spinal
lactone.
She's wasn't really sure.
And then I went back to her in a bit of apanic and she just reduced down my spinal
lactone a little bit.
I was freaking out in that appointment andshe just sort of looked to me and she
said, I understand that this is veryconfronting, but I looking at you.
(14:28):
You're going to be fine." She said, thisis the most predictable form of hair loss
that we manage in this clinic.
It doesn't sound it, but it is the bestkind of hair loss that you could hope for
in the sense that it's not going tosuddenly all fall out tomorrow.
So she said, you're going to be okay.
great.
And that was really reassuring.
Very reassuring.
(14:48):
Yeah.
I think I was very lucky that maybe I hadone of the female dermatologists in that
clinic instead of, cause some of the maledermatologists in that clinic are sort of
known for not having very good bedsidemanner.
okay.
which is fine, but it was what I needed tohear at the time.
And I think I just sort of like took adeep breath and sort of started to trust
the process.
and I've been working with her ever since.
And have you seen improvement?
(15:10):
Yeah, I would say so.
So my hairless medication journey has sortof gone up very slowly over the past two
years.
I started with.
just spironolactone and oral minoxidil andshe would like increase it at the tiniest
increments every like three months.
And you're continuing to see improvement?
(15:30):
Yeah.
So I'd say my hair definitely filled in insome spots, which is good, but not
dramatically, I would say.
Like the improvements were, I guess whatyou wanted, but it's not like I suddenly
have like this really thick head of hair.
Like it's still relatively fine, but itlooks like cosmetically it does look that
bit better.
(15:51):
and it has filled in some of the thinnerpatches that were a little bit more
obvious, I think.
and then the spironolactone, I don't takeit all anymore because I actually couldn't
tolerate it very well.
so we tapered me off of that.
And now I take by colloidomide instead,which is like a, another anti -antigen
sort of type style medication to stop itfrom progressing.
(16:12):
And I would say, if anything, my hair isjust stable.
Given that you have a PhD and obviouslyyou have a tendency towards research, I
guess those research skills would havecome in handy for you with your quest to
find solutions or causes for your hairloss.
(16:34):
So did you or what have you been able tofind?
I feel very lucky that I already had thattraining sort of going into this entire
journey because I think if I didn't...
It could have looked very differently inall honesty, because I think when you just
Google this and you try to find other,like there are really small pockets of the
internet where you can find and connectwith other women on this.
(16:56):
They are scary places.
And there's a lot of, there's a bigdialogue, I think in these spaces where
there's a really large group of women whodon't believe in treating hair loss
medically.
And a lot of that language, I remember atthe time I found very extreme.
Like I would see people describemedication as toxic, as being like
(17:21):
inherently dangerous or bad for you.
And I just sort of, I guess I knew better.
And I think maybe because I've alreadytaken, like I take pretty intense
medications for my Crohn's as well.
I take like immunosuppressants and stuffwhere the long -term side effects can be
cancer.
So I think in my head, I was like, I thinkthat's a really simplistic way of looking
at treatment for like a long -term issue.
(17:44):
And so when I started looking at likeactual research articles and I've got the
training to understand, you know, what ahigh quality research article is and sort
of what study conditions should be met andlike where to and how to interpret
research findings.
I really did feel like it was worth tryingbecause while there are adverse events,
(18:07):
From what I could see, a lot of it wasdose dependent, which makes sense.
And that's the case for most medicationsreally on the market.
Like regardless of what it is, most sideeffects are managed through dose.
So I think that's as well why I've alwayssort of stuck to the lower end of the
dosing for my medication as well.
Some people had incredible improvements insome of these studies that I saw as well,
where they would have like the photos atthe different time points.
(18:28):
That was pretty incredible.
Also, what I saw was a lot of people, evenif they didn't have these dramatic
improvements, they did have.
stabilization and my hair loss when I wentin was still pretty mild, that I was like,
at the very least, if I could just stop itfrom getting worse and this is what it
looks like.
Like I do miss my old hair.
I feel like I can't do as much with it,but I'm comfortable with it and I'm happy
(18:49):
with it.
In these spaces, when I would try toshare, you know, my own journeys and my
own experiences, I noticed two thingswould happen.
I would have private messages from twotypes of people.
I would have private messages from womenwho would
criticize me and say that I was beingharmful to the community, essentially, and
(19:10):
saying that I should just give up and thatthese medications aren't going to do
anything for me and I'm putting my hope insomething that's harmful for me and I
shouldn't be promoting it to other peopleand to just buy a wig and move on with my
life.
And then I saw other women who I noticedwould never actually post anything
themselves, but they would flood myprivate messages being like,
(19:32):
Can you tell me everything?
I'm so scared.
So I did find that it was almost like kindof taboo.
I'm really glad that I had that trainingto be able to make a decision for myself.
Otherwise I probably would have neverpursued it.
If I let that messaging get to me, itwould have probably put me off if I was
someone else because the language wasintensely fear -mongering, I would say.
(19:54):
Is that what you meant earlier when yousaid, looking on the internet around
female hair loss?
you end up in some scary places.
Is that the sort of thing you were talkingabout?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Scary places.
And I always put it out there as well.
And I am potentially, if anyone'slistening to this, I think it's helpful to
put it out on record that people thatcongregate and are really present in these
(20:18):
groups are not the people that are doingwell with something like just
statistically, there are so many morewomen that live with this sort of hair
loss that are probably out there justliving their lives.
probably relatively unbothered by itbecause they found a way to like deal with
it in a way that they feel fine with.
And we know that like through, like I knowthat through my research as well, cause I
(20:39):
research chronic illnesses and that's theproof of other chronic illnesses as well.
People in these like online spaces wherethere's like forums or support groups,
whatever, they're usually the people thatare doing it the worst and they're not
really representative of what the majorityof people are like who live with these
things.
And I, I,
felt so bad and I always took it uponmyself for a while for at least that first
(21:02):
year to keep posting updates about, youknow, every time I went to my
dermatologist, like what she would say andlike how we would tailor my medication and
what improvements I was noticing.
And if I wasn't noticing any side effects,I was always very transparent because I
felt like no one else was doing that.
And the noise was.
(21:24):
honestly, just like buy a wig and move on.
And some of these wig companies havereally good marketing as well.
And it's so funny to me because in myhead, there's like an interim in between
that as well.
Like you can do other cosmetic things thatdon't require you needing to buy a $3 ,000
hair piece.
Just feel like your hair looks better.
Like you can do other things as well tojust fill it in and make it look fuller.
(21:47):
And so I also found like these spaces werejust very.
one lens really, they're very narrow and Ididn't quite like that.
So I did try to push it back against it,but I don't really engage in them anymore
because I just found it was taking toomuch time to have people messaging me
telling me that I was wrong.
Well, and I should probably say that thereare really some great communities out
(22:09):
there who do some wonderful things tosupport women.
But I guess the message really is to treadvery carefully if you're looking at
joining a group.
and read through previous posts and have alook at sort of the general, I think the
general overall tone and attitude ofpeople in the group and find a group
that's right for you.
(22:30):
And also don't listen to everybody on theinternet.
There's so much terrible information outthere.
So much bad advice.
Yeah.
And I did make some friends along the wayand some people that I sort of still keep
in touch and I found finding other younggirls my age really hard.
And they were the people that would sortof more pop up in a DM rather than I would
(22:52):
see them posting.
I guess it depends.
I just found for the medication side ofthings, there really wasn't a lot.
Well, I also just want to mention that oneof the pieces of advice about minoxidil in
particular is, and for women out there whomight be thinking, should I, shouldn't I,
you know, they've heard all the naysayersand all the accusations of all the sort of
(23:15):
terrible things.
The thing that's really important to getacross is that the earlier, the sooner you
get onto minoxidil, the more likely itwill be to have an effect.
And even if all it does is stop ashedding, an ongoing problem, then it at
least keeps your baseline where you arenow.
(23:36):
Of course, as in your case, it can improvethings.
And so I just want to say that for peoplewho are worried about it, the longer you
wait,
The harder it will be because you becausehair loss, if it's just a the type that
just progresses, it will just continueuntil you can arrest it with something.
(23:57):
And and minoxidil is, you know, known theworld over to be good for this.
And you don't have to take tablets.
There is a topical treatment as well.
Yeah.
And I think on that note as well, theother thing that people are scared of with
the minoxidil is that
you end earlier, the better is absolutelytrue, which is why I felt that pressure to
get in to see that specialist that couldrecommend what I needed to do.
(24:21):
but I find the other discourse that comesup is, well, you have to use it forever.
Otherwise your hair will fall out andthat's really off putting for a lot of
people.
And I think to that, the thing that I wantto say is I see my hair loss as, as
legitimate as any other chronic condition,which you might.
choose to manage medically.
(24:42):
Absolutely.
And so I will take medication for the restof my life and my Crohn's disease and the
same with my hair loss medication.
I see it as I'll take it.
I'll probably take it until I choose tohave kids one day, hopefully.
And then I'll take a break and then I'llgo back on it.
And I'm happy with that choice.
(25:03):
And I don't care that the hair that I'vehad so far, I don't know who knows what
it's even doing and how much I'll lose,but I will.
Go back to it because again, it's a way ofmanaging a long -term chronic condition
and just because it's hair loss doesn'tmean it isn't legitimate enough to, I
think, justify some sort of ongoingmedical intervention, which is another bit
(25:26):
of dialogue I saw come up a lot.
While it might not be inherently harmingmy health physically, the psychological
and the psychosocial effects of hair lossshould never be minimized.
And I think if you want to
do that long -term to minimize thoseimpacts, that's just as valid and just as
worthy as say like my autoimmune disease.
(25:49):
So I don't see that as being a reason whyyou shouldn't try minoxidil.
I just think that that's a decision youneed to make for yourself.
For me, it was a no brainer really.
Thank you, Kate.
I really have loved listening to you talkabout that because I think what you're
saying is what's so important to get outthere.
So it's actually been wonderful.
(26:09):
to have you on the podcast today.
So thank you very much.
And I think also given your researchbackground, it's really been very
interesting to hear somebody who's really,really looked into this and made the
decision that you've made.
So thank you.
It's my pleasure.
And I hope that, you know, if anyonelistens to my, I guess, journey through
(26:31):
this, that maybe it encourages them to atleast consider things from a different
perspective as well.
I think
If I could go back to who I was a fewyears ago when all of this started, I
don't recognize that version of myselfbecause she was so sad and she was so,
like she felt so hopeless.
And I think now I would be lying if I saidthat there were parts about my future with
(26:55):
hair loss that don't intimidate me.
Like, you know, I've got a really niceboyfriend now who's very loving and I
could see us having kids in that one day,but you know, it's still.
is intimidating the thought that he knowsme as I am now.
What will I look like when I stop mymedication to do that?
I think that's still a very legitimatefear, but I feel much better moving
(27:17):
forward that it will be okay.
And regardless of what you choose to do,you can still live a very happy life with
hair loss.
Wow.
Well said, Kate.
What a beautiful attitude you have.
And thank you for giving that your time sothat other people
and other women, and particularly youngwomen, can hear your words and hopefully
(27:38):
that will make a difference to them.
So thank you so much.
Thank you.
I really appreciate you having me on.
Well, I hope you enjoyed hearing from ayoung, intelligent woman who has
researched hair loss and the treatment sothoroughly and to find out that she's okay
with taking medication, whichinterestingly enough,
(27:59):
is actually the topic of our Did You KnowToday?
Because we're going to look at thedifferent ways stimulants and blockers
work for women with hair loss.
For this Did You Know?
I want to look at some of the treatmentsfor female hair loss.
So in general, there are two types oftreatment pathways that have been proven
(28:21):
to help some women.
And those are stimulants, stimulating thehair follicle, and blockers, which
generally block DHT, which we'll talk moreabout in a minute.
So under the category of stimulants, thereis minoxidil, and then there's
light therapy.
And in the category of blockers there aremedications like spirinalactone,
(28:48):
Cyprotorone and a few others which we'lltalk about.
So let's talk about stimulants first.
So they do exactly what their namesuggests.
They stimulate the hair follicle and thenthat encourages hair growth.
They can either be applied as a topicalcream or
taken in a tablet form as a medication.
(29:10):
But of course they don't treat theunderlying cause.
So that's something to always keep in mindthat if you do take a stimulant and you
are treating hair loss that way, it wouldbe good to also treat the underlying cause
to get to the bottom of the cause of yourhair loss.
So, minoxidil also you might see that inthe chemist's Rogaine or Regaine.
(29:33):
That's really the universally accepted
best stimulant treatment that there is.
It comes as a topical, meaning you put iton your scalp, topical cream or a foam and
those are available over the counter soyou don't need a script for that.
You would need a script for the oralmedication though.
(29:55):
Medoxidil works as what's called avasodilator which actually means that it
opens up the blood vessels and
In that, it increases blood flow andtherefore it increases blood flow to the
hair follicle.
And what then happens is the hair folliclegets slightly healthier.
So it will elongate the growth cycle.
(30:18):
So the hair will grow for longer andthat's known as the anagen or the growth
phase.
And it can also decrease the sheddingrate.
So just an aside about shedding, peoplewho take minoxidil and in groups online
talk about
what's known as the dread shed.
So that's the shed that happens when tosome people when they take Mendoxidil.
(30:40):
But what I want to say is that's a goodthing.
It shows that the Mendoxidil is working.
So the new hair that is growing is pushingout the old hair.
So that's a really good sign.
It's a good sign that Mendoxidil isworking for you.
So if that does happen, keep going.
Don't give up because of the shed.
The good
(31:01):
will come, the goodness will come, hairwill grow.
But of course replacement hair won't comethrough for at least three months as the
follicle regathers itself and starts toproduce a new hair.
So you do have to stick with Mendoxidilfor a good six to 12 months.
Don't give up before then.
(31:22):
Now the second thing that Mendoxidil cando is over time increase the hair's
diameter.
So actually make the hair slightlythicker, but that does take a longer
period of time.
So again, if you're going to do somethinglike tetaninoxidil, keep going, keep
going.
It's really worthwhile.
But it isn't a cure, as I said.
It will only work for as long as you takeit.
(31:44):
It generally takes, you know, a good sixmonths to see any results.
Some do see a result at four months, butlet's just expect six months to see any.
any result and realistically it could evenbe closer to a year.
So don't give up.
It's available over the counter, thetopical version and it's safe to use.
(32:06):
Also because it's a topical treatment Ijust want to say you apply it to the hair
follicle and you don't apply it to thehair.
So don't saturate the hair with it, justget it in and onto your follicles and you
will hopefully see some result.
Now another hair growth stimulant
has had some success is a low level lasertherapy.
(32:28):
Now you might have seen these advertised,they come as a cap and they also come as a
kind of a weird looking contraption thatyou put on your head.
But the infrared light promotes tissuerepair and that stimulates the activity
within the cells of the hair follicle.
So you can do this in two main ways.
(32:48):
You can go to a hair loss clinic for atreatment.
or you can actually use a laser device athome and the cap is actually quite good.
It really does just look like a baseballcap.
Obviously going to a clinic is moreexpensive and takes more time, but if you
are thinking of doing something at home, Iwould just say, buy beware.
(33:12):
This is one of those things that you willget what you pay for.
So if you go for something cheap,
it won't have as much infrared light in itand therefore probably won't work as well.
So just be aware that you get what you payfor.
You can use both monoxidil and the lasertherapy together.
They work in different ways.
(33:34):
They both stimulate hair growth, but theydo it in different ways.
Okay.
So that's the stimulant side of things.
What about blockers and why would we needblockers?
Well, in men,
the conversion of testosterone into DHTwhich is short for dihydrotestosterone.
(33:55):
That is known as the cause of male patternhair loss.
But as we know female hair loss is muchmore complex.
There is no one single cause.
Although it is believed that in some womenDHT may play a role in their hair loss.
In the blockers, the blockers that areavailable for women are spirinolectone,
(34:19):
which we sort of shorten to SPIRO, andciproteron acetate.
Now, both of these are anti -androgenicpharmaceutical drugs.
They work by reducing the production ofandrogens, which are the male hormones,
and block the DHT receptors on the scalp,so hence the term blockers.
(34:39):
But in women, the results have been verymixed.
So due to the much higher levels of DHT inmen and the fact that the cause of male
pattern hair loss is known to be relatedto the production of DHT, it does work
well for men.
But there are many scientists who believeandrogens don't play any part in female
(35:00):
hair loss.
And in fact, in one study, they concludedthere was no clear reason as to why
Sperinolactone worked for some women andnot others.
So that does sort of...
cast some question mark over it.
But there are other blockers.
Finasteride is another one, which is adrug for male baldness, and that works by
reducing the concentration of DHT in theblood.
(35:23):
The studies for these blockers in men arereally positive, and yet not
overwhelmingly so.
And really, mucking around with hormonesis a very delicate business.
In a study for women, there really were noclear signs of improvement.
Certainly with finasteride, nowfinasteride isn't approved by the FDA for
(35:46):
women because it is known to cause somebirth defects.
So certainly not in young women.
I believe women past menopause might betempted.
And of course you'd have to go and do allthis through a doctor, of course, because
you'd need it to be prescribed.
So it is probably a risky choice, butSpiro, Spironolactone seems to be the main
(36:07):
blocker used in the female hair losscommunity.
All of these treatments are just that,they're treatments and they're not really
cures as such.
You really do need to get to the bottom ofthe cause of your hair loss or the causes
you might have more than one cause.
But they could help to alleviate some ofthe symptoms as you work to find out what
(36:28):
your underlying causes are.
So with any of these treatments that I'vetalked about today, please just make sure
that you do anything like this inconsultation with a doctor.
don't start taking these things withouthaving some sort of medical guidance.
And I don't want anything that we say onthe podcast to appear to be any sort of
(36:50):
medical guidance.
You really need to use your own doctor forthat.
So that brings us to the end of anotherepisode of the Hair Loss in Women podcast.
I hope you've enjoyed hearing from Kateand also learning just a little bit more
about some of the treatments that are outthere for hair loss.
And remember, as I like to say,
Kindness is beautiful, so wear it everyday.
(37:14):
Thanks for joining me on the Hair Loss inWomen podcast.
And a big thank you to the women who sharetheir stories here and with others in
their community.
One of the hardest things about hair lossfor women is that we don't talk about it.
So if you do want to hear more, pleasesubscribe to the podcast.
And if you like what you heard, why notleave a review?
(37:36):
Positive reviews will help other women.
to find this podcast too.
You can also find out more in my book,Hair Loss in Women.
This podcast has been recorded in Sydney,Australia and is produced by Pod and Pen
Productions.
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