47. Jungian Psychedelic Integration

In this episode of the Healthcare Uprising podcast, host Heather Pierce and producer Jeremy Carr welcome back Jessica Tracy, a Jungian coach and head of growth and partnerships at Enthea. The conversation delves into the integration of Jungian coaching with psychedelic experiences, exploring Carl Jung's concepts, the importance of shadow work, and the role of symbols and archetypes in personal healing. Jessica shares her insights on the coaching process, the significance of acupuncture in healing, and the connection between mind and body. The discussion emphasizes the transformative power of catharsis and the journey of individuation, highlighting the need for individuals to explore their inner selves and embrace their authentic paths.

 

Episode Transcript

(00:12):
All right, hello health heads.
Welcome and thank you for checking in to this dose of the healthcare uprising.
I'm your producer in the back, Jeremy Carr, here with your host in the front row, HeatherPierce.
So why don't you tell them what we're gonna be talking about today,
We've got our first person that came back a second time on our show.

(00:34):
Not counting round tables.
was Jessica Tracy, who is the head of growth and partnerships at Enthea.
wait, not true.
What?
Anya came back.
Oh yeah, but in a different capacity.
Sure.
I don't know.
this different?
So Jessica Tracy had, of course, the partnerships at Enthea.
She is coming back to speak with us about her Jungian coaching and integrative orpsychedelic integration around Jungian coaching and all things kind of under that

(01:06):
category.
And I'm going to leave it at that.
Yeah, this is a very deep conversation that, yeah, maybe we should just jump in.
So without further ado, here is our conversation with Jessica Tracy from Enthea andbeyond.
Hi and welcome to the healthcare uprising podcast.

(01:29):
Today we have Jessica Tracy, Jungian coach and also return guests from episode one.
Welcome to the show.
Welcome back.
We're so happy to have you here.
I'm thrilled to be back.
I'm honored to be back a second time and I'm super excited about talking all things youngand the unconscious today.

(01:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, and Jessica, for anyone listening, um, she's the head of growth and partnerships withAnthea, who is a, in the mental health space around bringing together networks of
ketamine, um, providers, right?
Ketamine clinics, which I'm sure you've even expand shoot.
We should probably bring you guys back just to talk about that, but you're back here totalk about your new world in, in the, uh, young and coaching and integrate psychedelic

(02:17):
integration.
So
have so many questions.
Cynthia will definitely set up some time.
We're now helping employers to cover ketamine assisted therapy, psilocybin therapy instates where it's legal, to mental health treatments as well.
So we'll definitely have to touch on that at another time.
And then the Jungian work that I do, I'm doing everything from doing one-on-one sessionswith individuals to go into some Jungian concepts and

(02:47):
some kind of modalities there as well as doing group workshops, team workshops, and thenalso applying younging modalities to psychedelic integration.
So yeah, it's a talk to you about all of that.
So many.
I'm excited to hear about that bit.
Yeah.
what I know of those two things separately.
Well, and I think probably a lot of people don't know what it is.
I am one of the I know ish.

(03:10):
Let's start with the basics.
What what is all this?
What is what is who?
Who's Carl Young?
I think we should talk about the kind of, you know, where it all began um and then whatyou do, what it all means.
So like, let's just start there with the basics and make sure that everyone listeningunderstands what it is.
Absolutely, yes.
So Carl Jung, he's a Swiss psychiatrist from the past.

(03:33):
He actually studied under Freud.
And so there were a lot of concepts that we are aware of now that he kind of coined orcame up with, or at least put some concepts around.
So that would be em the persona.
and the mask that we all wear.

(03:55):
So this is kind of how we identify and how we show up in our everyday lives.
This is kind of like our egoic or our conscious self.
So how we've em kind of adapted to portray ourselves in ways that we believe are sociallyacceptable.
At least that's how things kind of start out.

(04:15):
And then over time, you start to individuate and you start to really kind of take offthose masks.
shed that persona and really come into your true self.
And that's the concept of individuation, which is ultimately kind of the path of Jungianpsychology and Jungian coaching is really helping people to shed all of those, things that
aren't them, the concepts that aren't them, those programs, the things that we've learnedover time, the things we've accepted as ours that really weren't.

(04:43):
And the whole concept is to shed all of that and really find out who you truly areunderneath it all.
and find ways to really express and live your life to become more aligned with your mostauthentic self.
So with that, there's a lot of different kind of concepts that underlie that.
Part of that is knowing that we have masculine and feminine uh properties about us.

(05:07):
So um regardless of gender, we each have kind of these masculine qualities and we havethese feminine qualities.
Again, through what's socially acceptable and things that were taught, oftentimes as womenum or as men, you may stuff down a lot of your feminine qualities, not being able to
express or emote as much perhaps.

(05:27):
And actually as women, sometimes we tend, at least in the society, to maybe dominate morein masculine qualities, to be able to um work a full-time job, to be a mom, to be a
caretaker, to be all the things that we need to be.
um in this society or think we need to be, tend to over express in our masculine traits.

(05:48):
And when we're not balanced, it does a lot of damage to our hearts and our psyche.
So there's this whole balancing aspect that has to happen.
um And that happens through a lot of different ways, mirroring and relationships.
know, you'll maybe people have a lot of experiences and dreams too that bring a lot of theinequalities or um misalignments that are within you.

(06:08):
uh
There's also the concept of synchronicity.
So this is something that I know a lot of people experience like, that must becoincidence.
And it's not.
It is truly something that is happening to kind of remind you that you're on the rightpath or to give you like signs and signals on um moving forward and how you're going.
So synchronicities are like a really, is a really beautiful concept that I think is, uh Ithink these signs and symbols that just show us that we're on the right direction and give

(06:36):
us these little messages.
ah
too.
Just listening to you say that like makes me feel
Once you key into it, it's everywhere.
Yeah.
Absolutely everywhere.
And, you know, there's the psyche that is always trying to communicate with us.
And Jung was very adamant on the, the psyche is communicating us through symbols, throughimages, communicating with us very profoundly, actually through dreams.

(07:04):
So he did a ton of dream work.
I do a ton of my own dream work as well.
And it is just absolutely incredible to see and experience what comes through in dreamsand how
They are uh guides for us in so many ways to um direct us forward, to redirect us and tohelp us process trauma, other emotions.

(07:25):
So, so much there as well.
He talked a lot about the conscious and the collective, the unconscious and the collectiveunconscious.
So, the um unconscious is all of the things that kind of sits in this uh dark abyss, youknow, outside of our conscious awareness.
And what sits in the unconscious is ultimately what, when we're not aware of it, it reallydrives kind of how we live in our conscious world and our conscious reality.

(07:55):
within the conscious hold, I mentioned it's our persona, the anima, the animus, um ourtruest self is in there as well.
And then also our shadow, which is a big.
component of the work that I do in our shadow is our repressed fears, our um suppressedemotions, things that maybe we were told we shouldn't be or shouldn't do or shouldn't say

(08:20):
or shouldn't act when we were younger.
It's not socially critical or desires that maybe we have that say, no, that's taboo.
You can't do that.
ah Or even our creative potential where we may be
inspired by someone or say, they're amazing for doing that.
And that's in us too.
But because we haven't acknowledged and accepted that that's something that could be forus, we also stuff that down.

(08:43):
So all of this stuff is stuffed like really deep down and it can actually wreak a lot ofhavoc.
And this is why shadow work is so important.
We'll talk more about that.
Just wanted to give you down.
And then the collective unconscious is another kind of big term within Young's work.
And that is really just this concept of how we are all like so deeply connected in moreways than we know and can even understand.

(09:09):
There's just this like very interconnected web that we are all intertwined in.
And that's why people say like, oh, I'm empathetic or I'm so sensitive, I can feel.
you know, so many different things like truly we can pick up on other people's senses,emotions, we feel the same things that other people are feeling to different degrees

(09:30):
depending on how uh sensitive you are.
So truly we are connected very, very deeply.
So all of the work, like when we're seeing all of the challenges right now that's goingon, the best thing you can do is do your inner work.
Cause anytime you lift and shift some of your shadows, you're shifting the collectiveshadow as well.
So just high level about like Young and some of the concepts.

(09:53):
Concepts what I pull into my work.
And his whole thing is all the modern neuroses of, you know, all our anxiety anddepressions and, you know, issues like that, that we seem to only see in the first world,
in the developed world.
He blames the shadow for that.
Like, he believes that you can use his therapy to work through and fix that by findingyourself in...

(10:20):
He has a whole thing of how society doesn't want you to individuate.
It just wants you to be, you know, the good little automaton for the society.
And his whole thing is we have to allow people to individuate properly so that they can bementally healthy.
Cause that's the only way to really be, to be fully mentally healthy.
have to fully be yourself.

(10:42):
You gotta come out of the shadows and as I'm like hearing.
It came out of shadows and as I'm hearing you talk about this, now it makes so much moresense why psychedelics are a part of this because that's exactly what psychedelics do,
right?
Like they take down those walls.
They open your mind up.
We've been covering this a lot on the show, which I love.

(11:03):
Um, and so this feels really familiar to me right now.
Um, I would even say as much as even like the breath work.
class that I've been doing, Jeremy, that he started doing.
Like that is like, it's meditative.
It opens.
It's like not, there is no psychedelics involved, but it has some of the similar traitsand kind of, I don't know.

(11:24):
Your body creates its own psychedelics if you do that.
Yeah.
That's a real thing.
Yeah, I absolutely correlate work with psychedelics and I kind of, uh you know, I reallythink that Young's, this process, at least in the way that I take people through this work

(11:44):
is psychedelic in nature.
I'm taking people into their unconscious world, but just as like one step at a time.
So when you take psychedelics, you're going in there and you're jumping in head first.
uh
And then you're coming back with all of this unconscious material that you then have tointegrate and figure out what it means and what does it mean for you and how do you now

(12:04):
integrate it into your everyday life?
And that's why like the integration time is so extended and also why it's so incrediblyimportant.
Cause you just went into the unconscious, got a bunch of stuff that was given to youthrough the psychedelic medicine and now have to do something with it.
Whereas with young Ian coaching or a therapy session, you're going in there with aspecific intention or a specific

(12:26):
or at least that's how I practice.
And we're saying, okay, we have this issue, this dilemma, this intention, this goal.
So now let's take you on this kind of spiral process into your unconscious, into yourpsyche, so that we can tap into the innate wisdom that sits within your unconscious.
We can learn from you that knows best on what you need to do and how you need to workthrough it with the information that's sitting waiting for you in your unconscious, and

(12:53):
then bring that back.
out and then take that and then integrate that over the next week or two.
So it's kind of like maybe um dabbling with psychedelic medicine without the psychedelics,without the medicine itself and doing it in the kind of these baby steps.
I shouldn't say baby steps because you're doing very big, deep work.
So it's a little bit more than baby steps in each section, but you're not, you know,jumping in the abyss all in.

(13:16):
It's a piece at a time.
It's still a piece at a time.
So.
Just to kind of frame this a little bit, someone would come to you, right?
And you're a young in coach, you provide this space to work with them virtually in person.
I think you said workshops too, where you kind of take them through this process.
Is that kind of generally speaking?

(13:39):
Exactly.
Okay.
myself almost as like a guide in journey of going into your unconscious.
Because when you're going into your unconscious world, there's a lot of layers that youhave to break through, a lot of egoic layers that you have to break through.
you think of in terms of IFS therapy, internal family systems, you have to break throughall of the protective layers that's saying, uh-uh, not touching this.

(14:06):
Nope, not going to share that with you.
Nope, not going to go here.
Right?
So this process that I take people through is a way to very safely, very gently go deepwithin themselves so that we can engage with an aspect of themselves that wants to come
through and needs to come through to help them on this very specific intention.

(14:27):
Because I think when you work in that way, you're ultimately collaborating with deeperparts of yourself that do want to
help you and support you.
Because if you think about um dreams, dreams are always offering you information to helpyou in your conscious reality, in your everyday life.
It's feeding you information.

(14:49):
It's helping you process things.
Your psyche wants to communicate with you and guide you.
It just doesn't have, obviously, the same mechanisms that we do to communicate.
So it does so in symbols and images.
So a lot of my work is actually using symbols and images
and having these kind of dialogues or engagements through whether it's an actual dialogueprocess or if it's a journaling exercises or an art exercise, it's a way to dialogue with

(15:17):
the aspects of ourselves that is ready to come up and they present themselves throughsymbols and images, whether it's something that I guide them to bring up or something that
I show them and their intuition says, yes, that's it.
That's what's ready to communicate right now.
That's what Jung was talking about when he was talking about archetypes.

(15:37):
uh That term gets mistranslated a lot, because it really is just the image itself that isthe archetype.
yeah, the symbology of things rolls into it as well.
You find that with the psychedelics as well.
I never thought about the overlap with Jung's whole approach in philosophy and the whole

(16:03):
therapeutic side of psychedelics in the way how they kind of overlay each other like thatuntil this came up.
It's very interesting.
thank you for saying the therapeutic side of psychedelics.
I think that's a really important word to use to describe this.
Because people don't, you know, there's I think maybe there's even still a little bit of astigma around psychedelics, like it's some, you know, old hippie drug from the 60s and

(16:29):
people are, you know, going, you know, using them for recreational purposes only.
And they all have their own applications and you, you know, you got to know what they'refor and how to do them for what you want out of it.
It's, it's, know, you gotta, you gotta be respectful and kind of ceremonial with them ifyou want to actually get the positive side of

(16:51):
Yeah.
And we, and we know multiple people.
we just had Dr.
Tiffany Ryan come on, who's talked about her experiences real like with some psychedelicsand the integration.
And I love how you talked about that too.
And, and people, don't know that everyone really understands what that means.
Right.
And I don't want to jump too far ahead, but I want to make sure that we talk about like,what is the meaning of integration after you've gone through either coaching sessions with

(17:16):
you, whether that involves psychedelics or not.
Right.
Like just that mindset.
So maybe we can.
Exactly like what happens like to ask questions like if I was saying hey Jessica, I wantto come in and see you like what would that would it be like?
So this before an integration session or just a coaching session?

(17:39):
just a coaching session, yeah.
Yeah.
Fresh off the bat.
like where to start.
Yeah, so we always start like our first session is always just going into a bit of depthinto like where you are in all different aspects of your life I just like to get a
understanding of how you approach things how you perceive your life You know where you'reat in terms of energy and fulfillment and all the things but then once we get into the

(18:00):
actual work um What we what we do is someone will come to me with a dilemma an issue or anintention that they're trying to work through sometimes we'll work with
dreams as well.
So I'll talk a little bit more about that, they'll come to me with that and I'll help themdig a bit deeper into it so that we can really understand like what's at the crux of this?

(18:23):
Like, what are you really trying to sort out and why?
Because, you know, we can start up here with a question and if we do, that's great, butreally a lot of the
the process is just getting deeper and deeper and deeper into like, what's really going onhere?
What's really the challenge?
And sometimes the question that we start with totally shifts and changes.

(18:43):
And now we're something where maybe it was something around an action that they couldn'tdo to know we're actually at a belief system that you are carrying that is preventing you
from that action.
And that allows us to get in deeper pretty quickly so that we can have, I would say moreimpactful transformation during the process.
So that initial,
period of like really figuring out like what's the actual issue here is super important.

(19:08):
Also understanding like how motivated and comfortable our people are with that shift andthat change because sometimes they want to change but they're not super ready.
You know, there's a lot of challenges with with just change sometimes.
So just understanding what that looks like is super helpful and then setting intentionsfor where we need to be and really understanding what our goals are and what are the

(19:28):
desired outcomes.
What does that look like?
What do we need to get there?
And all of this, think of it, there's so much correlation between the process ofpsychedelics too.
Cause this is ultimately like doing a prep session before we go into the journey.
And that prep session, like if we do this prep session well, which is always the intent,we can go so much further and so much deeper in the actual journey.

(19:50):
So I have really taken a lot of the concepts in my learnings from uh what I've learnedthrough psychedelic facilitation into this Jungian work.
So that's, would say kind of like the prep, you will.
And then once we understand, okay, um here is the true uh issue on hand that we want totry to figure out.
And here's our ultimate goal.
And here's what it would feel like if we were there.

(20:11):
And here's what we want to get out of this session, too.
We set some pretty high goals.
Like we are here and we want to be here just by the end of this hour.
And that does really help because then people were coming in with like this belief andthis intent that we are doing work and we are making some change.
And that's an agreement that I have with people, you know, that we really are here.
to make some shifts and make some changes and get unstuck out of these things.

(20:34):
Then from there, I tried to evaluate um what tools we need to use.
I really love to use tools and resources because it makes things way more hands-on andtangible for people to do the work.
Otherwise we can get caught in just talking and just kind of venting, which can behelpful, but this isn't therapy.

(20:54):
This really is like coaching modality where we are using empowering tools to move peopleforward.
So what I might say is, okay, based on what I heard from you, I may sense that this is uma belief that you're carrying that may be preventing you or holding you back.
Or uh perhaps there is a resource that might be helpful or beneficial for you um for us toshift out of this.

(21:23):
Or perhaps there's some sort of like maybe identification that we're in right now that
we may need to explore further.
And I say these things because I want them to tell me where, what feels right, becausetheir intuition is truly the medicine.
And that's what guides everything we do.
I will never come and say, we're doing this and this is what we need to do.

(21:44):
And this is how we're going to move forward.
I always listen.
And then I give options because they always know best.
They always know better than me.
I'm just using my own intuitions and feeling to say, Hey, here are some things that Ithink are beneficial.
And they know, they always know.
whether or not they probably even recognized it going into it, they're going to be like,wait, yes, I do.
Right.
They're getting these little senses just like, I think that way, you know, it's like, yes.

(22:08):
And generally, we're gonna be on the same page too.
Like I generally, but it's always good to have that power lie in them because again,that's where the shift happens because when they're seeing that they're the ones that are
making the choices and making the shifts and that's where we have like a real dynamic oftransformation occurring.
So, and I will then I ask those questions because I have different tools.

(22:30):
um I have some tools where it's very action oriented.
Then I have other tools where we're really getting into an emotional belief that you maybe holding onto, or we may be looking at archetypes and what archetypes uh are present
here, or perhaps what archetypes could be lean into um in order to help us move forward,or perhaps what is a shadow uh of the archetype that maybe is getting in the way here.

(22:54):
um Or sometimes we'll use uh cards that are aligned with death.
You know, what part of us do we need to let die in order to have a shift here?
And what is that process of death and rebirth that's going to be comfortable with you andwhat you need right now?
So there's lots of different tools that I'll use.
So with that, sometimes too, I'll also have them actually just come up with a symbol or animage themselves.

(23:20):
So what I, the tools that I just mentioned.
they're different images or words or symbols so that their psyche can communicate withthem through those symbols that they're intuitively picking.
Sometimes I may have, especially if someone's like super intuitive already and superconnected, I might have them say, okay, you know, if we're feeling into this scenario,

(23:41):
what do you see?
And sometimes they'll get a pretty like vivid image and we work with that and we run withthat.
And then once we have that, what we do is I have them dialogue with it.
And that might be a true dialogue where on one side, they are asking the question.
And then they come into that, that, that image that symbol, whatever we're using, and theyfeel into it and they respond, however they feel whatever comes through and

(24:09):
themselves literally like asking the question and then answering themselves.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's interesting because you can actually see people shift.
So on one side they are in, you know, how they came into the session, how they speak, howthey interact.
And when they take a breath and they allow that symbol or that image to come over them,you can see them shift.
Like they speak little different.

(24:30):
Their energy is a little different.
There's something that comes through that, um that has, you know, information that's partof them, but you can see the physical shift and it's such a cool dynamic.
So we go through this, uh
multiple times until it's until it feels complete.
in one session.
like how you physically turn to the right and then turn to the left because that'sactually part of it too is the physical movement does flip a switch mentally as well and

(24:57):
like turn you turn this way and you're you then you turn around and you're the shadow likethat's a real thing that's a that's a part of the process with the actual physical
movement of that as well
Which I was thinking to like the symbols, right?
Like the things like that that you're having that they're that they're focusing on.
Like they they I'm assuming they kind of live in the shadows, right?
Like those symbols are kind of coming out of that unconsciousness.

(25:20):
You're shining a light on them in the shadow basically.
Okay, yeah.
Sometimes it's through me presenting them and there's something in them that just saysthat for I don't know why would that right or something like that.
Makes sense to me, right?
Like that feels right.
Okay.
That intuition, right?
they're going through, then it's like, wow, then we understand like, that's why I pickedit.
Like, you know, sometimes someone picked the moon and he was like, I don't know why I'mpicking the moon, but the moon for whatever.

(25:46):
was the tiniest thing on this big picture that there was like all this other stuff goingon and he picked the tiniest moon.
But something that he was working on was his, his feminine side.
There was a lot of aspects that needed to come through or that were wounded that neededsome healing.
So that came through as
This is the part of me that needs some work right now or wants to help you.

(26:08):
So cool.
because moon energy is feminine energy and his moon was too small.
That's symbolic.
He small moon because his feminine energy was too small.
Exactly.
And then we work on how do we like bring it in and expand it.
And then through that dialogue, we then close it out with insights.
And what did you learn?

(26:28):
And what was the wisdom that came through?
And then what's the homework?
How do we now integrate this?
And what changes or what do we need to do over the next week or two to really have thisshift to meet our goal?
the integration just to like get our turn kind of because we talked a little bit aboutthat.
Okay.
Kind of like the integration, we have the journey part of it, which is going in and I takenotes the whole time because a lot of time people don't even remember what they said.

(26:54):
You do kind of like go into a bit of an altered state.
So you don't even remember sometimes what they say.
So I write it all down so they can read it after.
And then I just close by just saying like, I act as a guide through the process.
I'm really not talking a lot.
I am asking questions or I'm maybe helping them on when to switch or maybe throwing insome prompts.

(27:16):
Exactly.
And, um, and, uh, with the insights, again, I allow them to come to their own and I alwayswill offer like, can I offer something that I saw or picked up on?
Sometimes that is helpful to be witnessed and to understand how you are witnessed and whatcame up to bring some awareness to some things.
But it truly is like a very, very just like guided process for them to go deep intothemselves.

(27:39):
Wow.
I mean, that is
is
That's not even with psychedelics, but that is doing.
That sounds like a psychedelic trip right there.
Well, Andy, it isn't it is that, this is not your mother's mental health therapy session.
This is like, you know, it is.
different.
Well, the thing I like about young is he's the guy that turns therapy toward the patientlearning how to fix themself.

(28:08):
Freud was all about, have to have the doctor fix you.
Young, well, he, ended up disagreeing with Freud about a lot of things.
Um, but that was the real change and that's the real difference between the Freudian andJungian approaches is young.
wants to give you the ability to fix yourself.

(28:28):
Whereas Freud says he, the doctor has the tools to fix you, but you need the doctor to fixyou.
Jung says you can fix yourself.
This is like a thing I keep hearing.
Maybe it's because of all the shows we've been doing lately on this around this topic.
It's like you just need a guide.
So in your in the situation here, that's you, Jessica.

(28:50):
But like what's typical like number of sessions with people do they come back for multiplesessions?
Like how does this work?
Because this is very different than traditional mental health.
This is old world shaman stuff, Young mainstream shamanism.
He built his whole thing off alchemy, which was medieval Europe's version of shamanism.

(29:15):
Ask friends if you didn't figure it out yet.
Jeremy's really into this
Sorry, everybody.
I'm going to monologue a bit much.
No, he's like really passionate about this and I think it's cool.
But like how does that work out usually with with clients for you, Jessica?
And I know you do workshops too, so that isn't even kind of a different format for people,but.

(29:36):
Yeah, you know, it depends.
There's some people where, you know, they come in with very specific goals and a veryspecific thing that they're trying to break through and work through.
And in that instance, I may say, you know, how about maybe eight sessions, six sessions,and it's very targeted and very focused.
Sometimes there's a week in between, sometimes there's two weeks in between, sometimes twoweeks is necessary because like when you step into the unconscious, it is opening stuff

(30:02):
up.
And after a session, more is going to come through.
So you are going to get more coming through, more downloads.
So you may need a bit more time.
Sometimes doing it every week might be a lot.
So it just depends.
sometimes if there's a very targeted specific thing that we're working on, then we may seta package of this amount of sessions.

(30:23):
We work through it.
And then we say, OK, either we're good.
em And for now, at least, unless something else comes up.
And otherwise, I have people that
we are working on a variety of different things over the course of a year or two.
But there are, think there are plenty of situations where people are completing uh theirgoals and their outcomes.

(30:45):
And in which case they don't need me anymore.
And that is the goal.
The goal is for them to not need me anymore and for them to be able to take some of thesethings and be able to like apply it in their own um everyday life.
But that said, challenges come up and we have so much stuff that is inside of us.
our own ancestral stuff, family stuff that's always coming up.
So ah I would say that sometimes it's a kind of short-term deal and then sometimes it isstuff that we just continue to kind of peel back the onion and work on more and more.

(31:17):
Yeah.
This actually ties a lot back in with, uh, episode 41 with Carissa Cano.
I've been thinking about her so much.
Yep.
The ancestral trauma, the interconnectedness that we have with people like you weretalking about earlier.
I, What's happening?

(31:39):
cause I would love Jessica and Carissa to, to, would love to put them into a conversationtogether.
Yeah.
Really would.
And maybe even Catherine too.
Yeah, true.
Yeah, she's integrating energy work with psychotherapy
Dr.
Tiffany Ryan, my gosh, this is all of a sudden a big panel.
What are we doing?
Yeah.

(31:59):
there's our next roundtable.
We need to put that together.
A live event sponsored by Health Care Uprising.
Jessica comes on, leads to a roundtable.
it's so great though.
It's funny that you said that because I actually just did a women's retreat two weeks ago.
And at the women's retreat, we had a woman that was focused on inner child healing and shehad a very specific program or technique that she developed around inner child healing.

(32:25):
So we started our work and that brought up a lot of people's stuff, their childhood woundsand stuff that was like really stuff deep down inside.
And then the next day we moved into my shadow work and people were just saying, they werelike, it was just...
the depth your able to get into, the of stuff that they were able to release.
like, to some extent, like people were having physical releases within their body wherestuff that was like lodged in and how emotions work, they they quite literally get lodged

(32:55):
into different parts of your body.
If you don't work on them, I have a really profound experience that I can share aboutmyself.
And then I can talk about from the concept of like Chinese medicine, how they believe thatthese, um
these emotions get stuck into your body.
So we actually had one individual where there was a physical release of energy that movefrom one place into another and then she got some acupuncture moves it through.

(33:17):
So yeah, it is very profound when we combine this together.
You know, the more we get into this, even the more like I get involved in this kind ofwork, like personally, right?
Like I mentioned the breath work, you know, other things like why isn't everybody gettingaccess to this?
Everyone should be doing this to some degree because they just should because there's somuch value.

(33:42):
There's so much that people get out of it.
It's like, I just I want the entire world to know that all of this is out there waitingfor them.
The problem there is it goes back to what I said earlier about how society or the statedoesn't want us to properly individuate because it doesn't make us good automatons for the
state.
They don't want us all to get this therapy because we would all properly individuate andstart thinking for ourselves.

(34:08):
And we'd all be so much stronger and healthier of mind, body and soul.
we literally need a societal shift in order for this to become a truly commonplacepractice.
Do you see a difference there?
mean, both in what you're doing kind of individually with the coaching and the psychedelicintegration, but also like professionally over the last year.

(34:30):
You know, I wonder sometimes, am I just in my own little bubble that I'm like, I think itis because I see it changing.
do you see mindset shift there?
I think that more and people are recognizing that and like what we're doing today and thewhole system that we have is entirely broken.
Like we can't just be like, here's a pill and you can numb that or here's a pill andthat's going to stop everything.

(34:52):
Like truly, like there are some things obviously that Western medicine is absolutelyincredible for and even with some of the stuff, right?
But we have to be doing our inner healing and our inner work.
And I love, and I've really been thinking a lot about how to bring these concepts into
very traditional places.
I'm doing some work, I'm working on a collaboration with this really incredible companythat's doing some amazing um work for sales professionals.

(35:17):
And that's my background.
And I know very much how sales can really mess with you mentally.
And you get into it because you have a lot of, oftentimes there's challenges with externalvalidation, with perfectionism, with never feeling good enough, with worth and with value.
And you're just continuing, to continuously trying to prove yourself.
through sales and being successful in sales.

(35:39):
And it's a total like um mind F for lack of a better term.
And I have been wanting to pull this work in with sales professionals.
So I met this great company that is doing just that.
So I'm gonna be incorporating some of this young work for them.
And I'm speaking actually, or not speaking, I'm leading three workshops in a few weeks atWestchester University.

(36:01):
where I'm actually going to be teaching the students how to do shadow work.
And I'm going to be taking them through the process of shadow work because, one of thethings that we recognize too with even younger professionals and younger, younger
individuals, they don't know how to process emotions and really challenging emotions.
It's just distract, you know, get on the phone and don't deal with it, you know, shut downand, and try to take it.

(36:25):
So I have this really incredible woman there that
just understands completely like the concepts here that we're really trying to get peopleto heal from within and to um put the power back in them and to empower themselves through
this work and teaching them uh some really uh simple techniques that they can take withthem so that I'm guiding them through on like one very specific challenge and issue.

(36:50):
But then that's something they can take with them so that anytime they have a challenge inlife, they can apply it.
So, you know, I've been thinking really hard in what ways can I bring this work into thecorporate world, working with teams, because it absolutely applies.
I if you think about how many challenges come up with, you know, your inner challengescome up and present themselves with your profession, you know, perhaps it's good enough or

(37:19):
whatever it might be, it's always an opportunity to do inner work.
And we can't just say like, oh, here's a,
you know, so many coaching programs out there while good, they're all based on likeframework and technique and just technical stuff.
And truly like we need to help people in here.
Like if we can help people in here and have some clarity, some like build some trust andreally like lead from their heart and lead from who they truly are, like transformation

(37:49):
that they will have from a professional level and also how much they can contribute.
in a healthy way to accompany will just be um profound.
yeah, I think I got a little off topic from your question.
yeah, I do think people are starting to recognize this and they're recognizing that wejust can't keep doing things the same way that we're doing.

(38:14):
this whole, I don't know if you wanna call it spiritual work, but you are working onyourself spiritually.
We are.
a spirit in a body and if our spirit is dying because we're not, you know, fulfilled withhow we're living our life, nothing is going to work.
We have to help heal ourselves and come in alignment with who we truly are if we want toheal.

(38:39):
if you're not healing, you your psycho-emotional uh things that you're dealing with, it isgoing to show up as disease, as pain in your body.
I know, for example, I was
I was suppressing some stuff and you know, I know better, but I was suppressing somestuff.
We all are suppressing something, right?

(39:01):
I mean, I can name off a few things right now.
Yeah, exactly.
And sometimes, you know, in the moment, it's hard to work through until you really sitdown and say, right, I got to deal with this.
And um it was showing up as as extreme pain in my right shoulder and neck.
And um if you look at this area, your right shoulder and your neck, it's connected to myour liver.

(39:25):
And when you suppress your own frustration, it gets stored in the liver.
So if you're not working on, uh if you're not suppressing, your liver gets impacted.
And that ultimately shows up physically as a physical symptom in your body through thatarea.
I was suppressing frustration and anger and it was showing up physically there.
And I was like, what am I doing?

(39:46):
I'm not sleeping right, my pill, yada, yada.
It wasn't that.
It was something that I needed to work through and get out.
You fixed it through that like you the pain went away once you started
did get acupuncture to help with the physical relief, but when I went there, we barelyeven did any physical stuff on the actual muscle.
We did a little cupping, but everything was on the channels that were gonna help meemotionally to be able to move some of the stagnation of energy that I had, as well as for

(40:15):
me to be able to have some, let's say more energy to have the conversations that I need tohave.
more willpower to have the conversations I needed to have.
As my other co-host Maz would say, it's psyche affecting matter and matter affectingpsyche.
There is that cycle where your body and your mind are very much connected and they affecteach other in big ways.

(40:42):
Pain shuts down the mind.
Physical pain can shut down the mind and mental pain can shut down the body.
Just the same.
mean, if you have unresolved emotions and traumas, it will quite literally cause diseaseand chronic conditions.
Like a lot of cancer comes from repressed emotion and overt stress and things like that.

(41:03):
I, we've gone through the whole therapy thing.
I, I don't know if I miss something.
Where does, where do the actual psychedelics come in?
Cause we've gone through the journey of your actual therapy process.
When do you, I mean, are there actual psychedelics at work here or is it just kind of apsychedelic thing all by itself?

(41:25):
Yeah, so when I work with people in terms of psychedelics, so there are, you know,retreats in other countries that I would do with, um or in, you know, states where it's
legal and countries where it's legal, I would do to support individuals in working withplant medicine.
But I do work with people in psychedelic integration so that after they've had, actuallybefore and after they've had a psychedelic experience, I would support them in

(41:48):
preparation.
because that journey that we do in terms of preparation almost helps them drop into theirunconscious, start the journey before they even have the medicine.
So they're actually starting that engagement with their unconscious selves, with thethings that need to come up and be worked through.
It starts prior to the actual experience when we do it with the Jungian framework.
And then um with the integration, what happens a lot of times is that, you know, have, yougo into the journey,

(42:14):
and you have these incredible visuals, maybe you have these really intense like physicalexperiences, maybe somebody came through and you're like, I don't know who that was or why
they came through or they said something.
So there's just this content that comes through that sometimes we don't fully understand.
Exactly, yeah.
Yeah.
Unidentified archetypes.

(42:34):
haha
Yes, very much.
Yeah.
So em when you work in traditional integration, is a lot of just like talking through it,understanding it, you know, but when I take them into that framework from like a Jungian
perspective, I take them through it through a very similar dynamic.
So we'll bring up what it was they saw, they felt, and we'll do some sort of exercisearound it, whether it's that dialoguing process, whether it's a journaling framework where

(43:02):
there's just like,
kind of automatic writing with a bunch of different prompts to get deeper and deeper anddeeper into like what it had to offer to them or whether it's doing some sort of uh art
exercise.
So visually representing what they saw and then digging into that and maybe havingdifferent components of the picture speak to each other or engage with each other.

(43:23):
So there's lots of different techniques that I use within the journey, it is, or withinthe integration.
but it is a concept of taking what came through that they couldn't figure out what itmeant or what it was trying to tell them.
And then going through that kind of spiraling process, that spiral of going deeper anddeeper and deeper to get insight from that symbolic thing that came through.

(43:46):
So we're really just, we're just getting insight from the symbolic image.
that presented itself because it presented itself for a reason.
And oftentimes there's more that has to offer, and we just have to go through a bit of uha guided process to uncover it and it is done through the individual.
oh
let's say you have somebody that you're working with.

(44:08):
So you'll do kind of like, how do I say this?
They're committed to uh doing something with psychedelics.
Now, you don't have any part to do with that piece, but you kind of show it before forkind of preparing them for having that experience.
And then you work with them after for the integration into their life and kind of likewhat it told them, it's meaning, what they're supposed to do with what they.

(44:32):
found, saw, fell, all those things, but they do it on their own.
Yeah, and if I was having like a retreat, obviously then, know, okay, otherwise, yes, theywould be doing the medicine on their own or perhaps they there's also instances where
maybe they already had a journey.
Maybe the journey was a year ago and they still can't figure out what that that.
trying to kind of put it all together.

(44:54):
Gotcha.
journeys and they have seen some stuff that have been pretty challenging.
They can't figure out why sometimes really dark stuff can come through too.
So it's, may not even be immediately after it might be something that, know, is stillpresent and they just haven't been able to really figure out or sort through yet.
Okay.
That makes I'm, keep thinking back to, um, well, I'm thinking of my friend who just did anayahuasca retreat up in Utah last year.

(45:21):
I'm still trying to get her to come on the show.
Um, and then dr.
Tiffany Ryan, who's a friend of mine who just recorded with us.
That's not even published yet, but, she has a guide, right?
Where she went and sat in a year and, and, using some psychedelics.
And so she had somebody who she was working with kind of like all the way through.

(45:41):
And as part of that integration, but that's not always everyone's scenario.
Right.
Like I could even see my friend who just got back from this ayahuasca retreat, needingsomebody like you potentially uh weeks from now, months from now and ever.
Right.
Because of what she experienced and went through during that, during that time.

(46:02):
Although I'm sure that she had a lot of guidance during that week.
That's like a pretty big, you know, that that's like a full retreat.
I still haven't gotten the whole story from her yet, so I've got to ask her all thedetails.
So it can happen in a number of ways, essentially.
Yeah, exactly.
look once psychedelics is legal all over the country then for sure we doing the whole

(46:23):
Right?
Yeah, let's let's say when and not if on that when psychedelics are legal across thecountry.
Um, I want to make sure that we touch on a couple of things too.
You had mentioned earlier about this person, I believe who was in the workshop that hadlike the physical change or not physical change, like the, maybe the pain moved or

(46:43):
something along those lines can like, it sounds, and it sounds like it kind of happened toyou too, to some degree, like where you're holding something in your shoulder or wherever
part of your body, can you talk about like what that was like and, and, and how that kindof worked out for that person?
Yeah, I'll share both stories.
I think they're both so interesting.

(47:04):
I'll share hers, you know, at a high level.
So she had been doing some work around some inner child work and, you know, a challengingexperience that she had.
And um ultimately, you know, without going into all the details, um she had lost a lovedone at a young age, someone she was very, very close with and really idolized and looked
up to.
And his passing was so traumatic for her.

(47:27):
She was young and she didn't know how to process the emotion.
and she didn't know how to process the experience and the support system that was aroundher, um the ways that they were processing it and helping her process it just wasn't, I
think, extremely beneficial for her.
So when that happens and we're not able to process something, uh that emotion gets stuffedinto uh another level within your body.

(47:49):
And if that level can't handle it, it gets stuffed deeper.
And if that level can't handle it, gets stuff deeper.
And sometimes it literally gets stored like in our bones and in our joints.
know, they'll say, you know, people that start to get really achy, there's a lot of stuffthat they have not dealt with that, you know, they need to move through.
We see a lot of it with back pain.
em So she had really tucked this experience away.

(48:12):
And when we were doing some shadow work, and actually with this, we did some shadow work.
And then I also did some Kundalini movement as well to help move some things outenergetically.
uh She had um an experience where she was able to connect with the individual that passedand get some insight from him.
And he was able to share with her, like, you don't have to, you're holding on to myphysical presence so tight.

(48:36):
Like you don't need to do that.
I'm here with you.
I'm like literally here with you all the time.
You can let that go.
And as she was able to process that experience, um she felt something actually like shiftin her body.
And it was like this trauma or this emotion that she had tucked away was finally releasedand then it had to move somewhere.
So it actually like moved into her leg and she felt it in her leg.

(48:58):
eh So yeah, so then there's like some different movements and things that you can do afterthat to help physically move it out of your body.
She actually went and got acupuncture um when she had gotten back from the retreat, butthere's lots of different ways you can move that energy through these experiences as well.
So that was profound.

(49:20):
Yeah.
And just to be able to like have that, you know, these dialogues with deeper parts ofyourself, because it's sometimes it's deeper parts of yourself.
And sometimes it is truly like ancestors that can kind of come through and engage withyou.
And I truly, truly believe that because, you know, some of these shadows that we carry,they're not just our shadows.
There's also ancestral shadows that we carry.

(49:42):
If you think about all the things that like are passed down through lineage,
um We have our own personal shadow that we pick up from our own personal life experiences,but think about how addiction and fear and um anger and all of these different things go
through generations and you can literally track.
That is an ancestral shadow and it just keeps getting passed down and passed down untilsomeone breaks it.

(50:04):
So there is truly like ancestral shadow work that needs to be done to help people likerelease these things.
Sometimes people will say like, this feels like beyond me and it's because it is.
That's one experience.
And then, you know, the other physical experience I can share with myself, just to kind oftalk about how traumas like truly do get stored in the body, ah is I a number of different

(50:29):
traumatic experiences like we all did, um but some pretty tough ones that I've been doinga lot of work around and uh
you know, having progress on them and felt like I was moving through them, but stillhaving some, challenges with it.
And I went to Peru earlier in March this year.
And I went, I trained in psychedelic assisted psychotherapy in 2021.

(50:52):
And this was part of that continuing education.
So I went through a graduate program to Peru to work with the shamans and learn from them.
And while I was there, there was an acupuncturist there.
And I, on my third day of the medicine, actually, so,
em I decided to get an acupuncture session.
Never done acupuncture before.
Never really thought too much about it.

(51:13):
Didn't really know much about it.
And that's about it.
So said, sure, I'll get it.
Well, I just happened to be one of like the handful of people that got acupuncture whileon San Pedro, the Cactus Psychedelic Medicine.
Well...
m
Yes.
Don't know a whole lot about that, but I'll have to do a little research.
What does that feel?

(51:33):
Amazing, lesson.
Well, it totally redirected my whole life path.
I'll tell you that much and I'll explain why.
So, um, yeah another show uh
Yeah, there's definitely so much more there.
So I went in there and, know, I told him what I was working through and there was, so hefell in to, whatever I was experiencing.

(51:55):
And he's like, okay, there's a lot of fear that's stored in your body.
He said there is fear stored in your kidneys and there is a lot of like overactive mindactivity from an overactive mind that's stored in your spleen.
So he did the
did the needles and I was on at that point a lower dose of the medicine and I felt a rushof energy just explode out of where he put the needle and and rush up my leg.

(52:23):
And I just had the most like profound experience of how acupuncture physically truly doeswork and how energetically emotions and things truly do get stuck in certain um
energetic uh sections in our body that are connected to certain organs.
And that is where those emotions get stored and stuck.

(52:45):
Now, the third session, third and last um San Pedro session I did, I was on a lot ofmedicine.
So we went to the highest dose for me at that point.
And I had my next acupuncture session.
And the first three experiences with the medicine were like so beautiful.
First two, should say, were so beautiful, so light, so healing.
Then this session was like, all right,

(53:06):
time to do work.
There's some shadows coming through and you have to go into it.
have to be.
Yeah, the deeper you go, the darker the shadows get, That's real news.
That is true.
I so and I didn't even know when it was coming up when I was having my session, but I justwalked out.
We were supposed to break for lunch and I saw him and I was like, it's time, right?

(53:26):
And he's like, it's time.
So I told him what was coming up and it was some deep dark stuff.
And he's like, OK, he's like, well, there's startle here stored here.
So there was a startling an event when I was startled.
So there was an attempt to bring him when I was a kid.
The story near pericardium.
And there was some other, you know, experiences similar that I've had that was stored inyour pericardium.

(53:47):
And he said that there was another energy, um fear-based energy that is very, very deep.
You have really tucked this one away.
So he used the needles in the certain places and I just erupted in fear.
My entire body started to shake.
I started to shiver, cry, whatever you wanna call it, hyperventilate.
um And you could say I basically had a panic attack for 30 minutes.

(54:12):
But what that was doing was it was allowing me to have a very visceral physical healingresponse because that trauma was still so deeply stored in my organs that um it needed to
be released.
Like this is the only way for me to really truly heal was that it had to be released frommy energy centers in my organs.

(54:32):
Now, would I have had that much of a visceral response if I was not on medicine?
Probably not.
I do believe the same release was happening.
I just think that I had a really profound, unique opportunity to feel energetically andphysically and viscerally what happens in the practice of acupuncture and also to truly
understand how trauma quite literally does get stored in the body.

(54:57):
did that.
it was.
So much stuff for me and then.
true catharsis that you experienced,
yeah.
And the rest of the day I felt gross.
I felt like I had PTSD from this.
Like I feel like.
much stuff just gets, it's going to release so much toxin into your system.

(55:19):
Yeah.
happened yet, but over time throughout the day it ended up clearing and then the next dayI felt incredible.
I was so light.
I was like, I felt like a new woman.
And the next day I signed up to go back to AcuSchool for Acupuncture.
uh
Gosh, you're like, is, I need this in my life.
That's like a soul cleansing, you know, it's like how you do, you know, we do intestinalcleanses and things like that, you know, this is how you cleanse your spirit.

(55:47):
Spirit cleansing is what...
Yeah, what I realized like with this Jungian work, it's so powerful, right?
It really is truly profound.
And we are moving so much energetically out of the system.
Like it truly does work as an energetic movement of what's stuck inside the unconscious.
But there are some things that like that are so, so deep that we do need a deeper physicalpractice in order to move.

(56:08):
Sometimes that's yoga and sometimes that will do it.
But I've decided that acupuncture is now the tool for me to incorporate into my Jungianwork.
ah
Try that too.
I've done universes talking here
I've done acupuncture.
did it for actually for nerve pain that I was having in my left arm.
have spinal stenosis.
I had this horrible flare up.

(56:29):
So for me, it was more like a physical response of like an actual like diagnosedcondition.
But I mean, I loved it.
So I can't say I experienced anything like what you have.
But I was also not being treated for anything other than my actual nerve issue.
eh So but I mean, I'm still

(56:50):
100 percent.
I'm a believer in the acupuncture all day long.
That was I should do it more often.
We've got a great a great place here in town.
I think we're going to bring an acupuncturist on the show, too.
yeah.
So so now you're going down this path of acupuncture.
Like, it's kind of cool.
Like you've got all of these new, I don't know, pathways to move into with.

(57:17):
with just all this healing and everything.
must feel, I don't know, life-changing.
It just feels right.
I can say it just feels right.
know, I think when you do this inner work, what I find is that things start to presentthemselves that are aligned for you and you just have to, when they show up, you just have

(57:38):
to say yes.
And you figure out how to make it all work.
know, like, yeah, exactly.
You know, I'm 40 years old and now I'm going back to school for my doctorates and it'sgoing to take me four years while I have my young in work and my work in the psychedelics
consulting.
but you make it work and you figure out how to do it.
And it's all so connected.
And the more that I learn through um my school in Chinese medicine and acupuncture, it'sdirectly aligned with how I practice my Jungian work and how I understand energy and

(58:11):
organs and how everything is so interconnected and how psychedelic medicine does a lot ofthat.
that healing and that work.
So I find it to really just be like a continuing education of my ultimate mission, whichis to help um others be able to do their own inner work and go ultimately on this journey

(58:32):
within themselves, this kind of process of self-exploration in order to um come into theirfullest authenticity, the path of individuation.
And that's also the practice of traditional Chinese medicine is that the practitioner
their ultimate goal, depending on the books you read, will suggest that your goal is tohelp people follow their heart's path and connect their mind to their heart where their

(58:58):
heart is the emperor, their heart is leading, their mind is just helping to process thedata and their willpower is helping them to act on their heart.
And that's the same concept of Jungian and it's kind of the same concept of what you'retrying to get out of psychedelics.
So it's all the same, you know,
uh objectives and kind of concepts.
It's just different tools because people need different things.

(59:19):
uh know, Jungian work is super powerful.
Psychedelics are super powerful.
Acupuncture is super powerful, but depending on what people need and where they're at, andsometimes a combination of all three is what's going to be necessary for certain people.
So for me, I just, I'd like to have uh different tools in my toolkits just because I knowpeople come with a different set of.

(59:40):
challenges and complexities and sometimes you need to use one, sometimes you need to use acombination.
Well, and even maybe their openness to certain things, right?
Like, might be a little bit more inhibited at first, but then the more you kind of explorethese spaces, I feel like that's like me, like it's been kind of a slow crawl, right?

(01:00:00):
uh But being open-minded to those things and figuring out like, okay, can do that, thatfeels good to me, right?
Like I'm open to these bigger things, so.
Yeah.
I about like people that I work with in person too, you if we can bring some of this stuffup in the mind and really identify like these like deeply, deeply rooted things, then we

(01:00:21):
can know like, where in the body is that stored?
And then when we can do some work with the acupuncture to actually have that physicalrelease, just, just happens, I would say so much more quickly.
ah You have transformation with all of these, but when you start to combine some of thesemodalities, that's where I think you have some pretty significant shifts, pretty.
pretty quickly.

(01:00:42):
And it's one of those processes where you slowly build up to this moment and then there isthat catharsis moment and all of a sudden everything changes.
And then you go, okay, what's next?
And you slowly build up to the next one and you have that moment again.
It's like these, you know, you got to build up to that moment where you go boom, you know,and then all of a sudden, like when you got your catharsis moment and you said your whole

(01:01:08):
path of your life changed because of it.
That's
And that is the process of individuation.
have to be open to becoming yourself, even if yourself is someone other than who youthought it was.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I mean, like, I feel like with all of these modalities, you know, first it waspsychedelics, then it was like, wow, okay, huge shift.
And then I found Carl Jung's work and his work was just so, I've been working with theJungian psychiatrist now for over three years and my work actually it's been longer now.

(01:01:36):
It's probably been four years.
And my work with her and also reading about, reading all of his work is really whatprompted me to get into this coaching work.
And that was a huge shift.
And then having this acupuncture was another huge shift.
I think it's about just like following your heart and listening to where this energy ispulling you and allowing it to pull you.

(01:01:58):
I had one uh mentor and she's incredible.
And she was like, you know, Jessica.
You might not wanna, like this might be a little confusing for people when you're talkingabout like all the different things that you're doing and how you're combining it.
And I totally get that and totally understand that.
But I think like from a vision perspective, like I just, to me, it makes so much sense,you know?

(01:02:20):
it all, from my perspective, like in my big picture and where I see all this going, likeit very much is aligned.
So it's exciting to see it all develop.
It keeps I keep thinking of the Ikea guy.
You know, am I saying that right?
I can't you with the three circles and you find you're kind of right in the middle andlike that's you.
You found you found it and maybe still finding right?

(01:02:44):
I'm sure there's more that's going to present itself.
Cohesive and make sense.
Yeah.
And I hate to be a party pooper, but we are over an hour now officially.
Okay, well, yeah, I think we're good to almost wrap up here.
can talk about the rest when we do the roundtable.
We're on a good I think we're on a good note to close out.
uh has found where she's supposed to be and continuing to explore that passive.

(01:03:10):
Thank you for bringing your expertise to our show.
Can we bring her back when I've read a few more young books?
Yep.
think we, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We could talk about this for hours.
Literally I came in and like, Heather doesn't tell me what we're talking about till I gethere to set up.
It's kind of part of our shtick, but, I saw you coming back and I'm like, so, so what arewe actually talking about?
And she said the phrase Jungian psychedelic integration.

(01:03:33):
And I was like, my God, I can start talking about that right now.
uh I don't even need a guest.
I can talk all day about that myself.
Yup.
Yeah, it's uh well, yeah, you're officially, officially, officially a big friend of thepod with a coming back now.

(01:03:53):
uh
actually three times because it was episode one plus the roundtable following the at theend of the ketamine series.
Well, Sherry came for the.
Yes, did them.
uh
round table.
Yeah, this is technically only your second time, but we've got some
and thea has been represented three times correct

(01:04:13):
So now we're going to come back and have to do another.
Yeah, we're going to do the roundtable.
So keep an eye out.
What are our links for you for now?
Yeah, if somebody wanted to work with you or where could they find you?
Because I know you're doing workshops in the Philly area.
like to put the links in the show notes.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So there's a few different ways for, if anyone's interested in the Enthea side, you know,can always reach out to us over there.

(01:04:38):
It's jessicaenthea.com.
um I have my consulting work in psychedelics is the sagecollective.co.
And then all of my Jungian work is jessicathejungian.coach.
That's where my website is.
You can also find me on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Instagram is underscore Jessica, Tracy, T-R-A-C-Y underscore and on LinkedIn.

(01:04:59):
Yeah, I work with individuals on a one-on-one basis.
I also do a lot of workshops.
So we can go like very in-depth and do like pretty intensive shadow work through a groupworkshop.
m I like to incorporate that into uh teamwork as well for corporations.
know, every corporation has their own shadow that they need to work through.

(01:05:20):
It's all of these concepts that apply to individuals that they all directly apply to.
corporations.
They have the shadows, they have the archetypes, they have ones that they lean into morethan the others.
They have their persona, the mask that they wear, they have their kind of heart's missionthat they need to be able to get to and identify.
like, you know, I'd love to work with some business owners that like really understandthat Jungian concept and like transform their business from the perspective with using

(01:05:49):
those Jungian modalities.
So yeah, lots of fun things that we can do there for sure.
I love our podcast so much.
uh Me too.
like what she just said make me so happy.
Because you know the government says companies are people, corporations are people.
eh So why wouldn't they have their own shadow and need their own shadow work?

(01:06:10):
It is 100 % applicable.
All of the individuation we do for ourselves, we can do individuation for a company.
New organization really, right?
Any group of people as a collective trying to do one thing together, it's going to developits own mentality.
What if you led that way where you're trying to like truly individual from an authenticstandpoint?

(01:06:31):
How how better would the world be if all companies tried to individual from an authenticperspective?
I've been doing it on personal basis for a long time.
I'm individuated.
would be a better place.
well with that, thank you so much for coming on again.
Another fascinating and lightning conversation.
We could probably keep going, but we're just going to have to bring you back.

(01:06:56):
We're already too long.
Producer says stop.
Yeah.
oh
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(01:07:21):
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(01:07:46):
That's all for this dose of healthcare uprising.
Till the next time, keep looking for the good in the world.
because sometimes it's where you least expect it.

(01:08:35):
This has been a Shut Up oh