August 29, 2025 • 75 mins
In this episode of the Healthcare Uprising podcast, Megan Marshall shares her deeply personal journey through addiction and recovery. With her sister as the host, Megan discusses her struggles with alcohol and drug addiction, the impact of childhood trauma, and the importance of mental health in the recovery process. She reflects on her experiences with various treatment programs, the role of support systems, and the milestones she has achieved in her sobriety. Megan emphasizes the significance of taking the first step towards recovery and encourages others to seek help without shame. The conversation culminates in a celebration of her recent achievement of regaining full legal guardianship of her son, Liam, marking a significant milestone in her recovery journey.
Online AA meetings: https://aa-intergroup.org/meetings/
Find AA meetings near you: https://www.aa-meetings.com/directory
AZ Women's Recovery Center: https://azwomensrecoverycenter.org/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
Alright, hello Health Heads.
Welcome and thank you for checking in to this dose of the healthcare uprising.
I am your producer in the back, Jeremy Card, here with your host in the front row, HeatherPierce.
So what are we doing today, Heather?
Well, today we have a human stories episode.
This one is with my sister, Megan Marshall.
(00:34):
She's here to talk openly and very bravely about her decades, decades long battles.
Yes, I'm saying that plural with on again, off again, addiction, fully uncovering andfacing the root cause of her addiction.
And most importantly, finally finding a program that has given her the pathway to realrecovery.
(00:56):
acceptance and a healthier way forward.
She is a rock star devoted mom to a 17 year old special needs child Liam, who is also mynephew, who I lovingly called my Shmee, and a nurturer of many, many, many things.
So if you know Megan, you know that she is, uh she's like the she's like the mom.
So yeah.
but you took quite the road to get there so without further ado let's get into ourconversation with Megan Marshall
(01:30):
Hi and welcome to the healthcare uprising podcast.
Today we have Megan Marshall with us who happens to be my sister.
Megan, welcome to the show.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, today we're going to be talking about Megan's journey with addiction and recoverycurrently in recovery.
So we're going to celebrate a little bit today too.
this is a little different.
(01:53):
little.
Yeah, having my own sister on the show, but I think this is really, it's a story I thinkand an experience that will resonate with a lot of people.
Whether you've gone through addiction and recovery yourself personally.
And I think we've all known somebody who has.
So anyway, I'm going to, I'm going to buckle up.
(02:16):
I'm buckling up for this one because even I'm going to probably hear some things for thefirst time.
Um, so yeah.
So with that, let's, let's start the beginning.
So really just start where you want, honestly, um, whatever you want to share that kind ofhas brought you to this point.
And maybe you can tell us, um, how
(02:37):
how far along in recovery you are and then really just kind of what's your story.
Okay, well, um I am recovering from uh alcohol addiction.
I do have uh some drug addiction in my past.
um So we'll talk about that.
(02:58):
But next Wednesday is five months over for me.
I'm very excited about that, because I haven't gotten this far.
I know, right?
to ring that a couple times today.
Yeah.
months.
Six months mark is like my big first milestone that I'm looking forward to.
(03:19):
But um yeah, so this it's been a roller coaster of a ride.
I've been up and down with my uh sobriety and recovery and then relapse and so on.
So yeah, I mean, it goes.
(03:41):
Way back, there's a lot of underlying issues that I've learned about just doing therapyand the groups and um there's some childhood trauma.
I was diagnosed with PTSD about two years ago.
There's a lot of stuff there from dad.
(04:05):
He's a part of that uh as
I don't know if everybody knows, but our father was a hardcore alcoholic.
And my understanding is he was from the age of 19.
So growing up with in that environment was, it was rough and he, uh, he had differentfeelings about me than he did you.
(04:30):
And I've even talked to mom about it and she's like, yeah, he treated you differently.
So
There was a lot of,
I don't know, it's just, he kind of talked down to me and seemed to be constantlydisappointed in me.
(04:51):
And I could never measure up where in my eyes, the light was shining on you, Heather.
I think you were a lot more like him and yeah, so he could.
(05:11):
that resonated with him.
So where I was very different and I don't know if he just didn't know how to deal with meor or what, but, um you know, I was bullied for years growing up in school and I, I feel
(05:34):
like I got a lot of that from dad as well in a different way, but,
I felt like that.
And that's no fun when you feel like you can never measure up.
You constantly feel so black sheepish.
(05:57):
But it was what it was.
And I think that stuck with me for years, even till he died.
We had a rough relationship.
There was a lot of...
me not talking to him at times.
There were times when I would talk to him and he was really drunk and he would talk to meas if I was mom.
(06:20):
He sometimes called me her name when he was angry.
So I feel like a lot of the issues that him and mom had
He's like, yeah, yeah.
And he died in 2007 just for context, everyone because so it's been a while.
Yeah.
And I was literally that was a very, very tragic night because it was Liam, who's my son,your nephew, his father's the one who found him.
(06:47):
And I was on the phone with him about two minutes before he dropped dead of a massiveheart attack.
that was the night.
a yeah I remember all that like it was yesterday
Yeah, and there was a lot of very bizarre emotions that came with that because at thattime, dad and I were good.
(07:09):
was pregnant with his first grandchild.
He was excited about that.
uh
You were helping him a lot too.
I was at the end
trying to get him to the doctor, trying to get him into rehab, just doing all the things.
yeah.
(07:32):
Yeah.
And the last thing he said to me was, thank you, Megan.
And that's, that's, those are the last words I had with him and he was dead, like rightafter literally right after that.
Which must feel kind of ironic, right?
Because given the nature of your relationship and then...
No.
(07:53):
And you know with me, I don't know if you ever felt this way Heather, but he didn't knowhow to show love necessarily.
I feel like.
Exactly how I would explain it to people like his way of showing was by buying you thingsor giving you money.
(08:15):
There was that one period I didn't talk to him for a year and a half because of the way hehad treated me and the day we talked he said meet me at the car dealership and bought me a
car.
Yeah.
And that's that's just what he did.
I refer to him jokingly as daddy warbucks.
(08:37):
I mean, it was just kind of like that.
It was like that and
money was his love language.
was.
um Very much so.
But that doesn't feel good.
Which is- No.
doesn't feel good.
And you almost feel like is this all I'm worth to you?
You know, you buy me a car, you don't care about what's actually going on with me.
(09:01):
um
But it was the end.
was he was so pickled.
And he, you he had left, you know, he had gotten laid off from work and he was doingconsulting work and then he wasn't doing anything and then he was retired and he was
literally drinking like every single day.
Like, I mean, it was really bad.
So I don't even know.
(09:22):
Like it became like such a transactional thing.
Yeah, just make sure dad's still breathing, you know, literally.
uh
I remember going to his house and like putting a mirror up to his face when he was passedout on the couch when Jake and I would go do yard work and like, yeah, like we weren't
having meaningful conversations in that last six months.
(09:44):
But leading up to that, uh in my, I don't know, mid-twenties, I all of a sudden gotinvolved in nightlife.
Like I always say, I was a Scottsdale rat.
And with that became a lot of popularity.
(10:07):
It's like something I had never experienced in my life.
All of a sudden I was this girl that
you know, got into all the big nightclubs for free, knew the hostesses, hanging out withcelebrities in VIP boxes.
Then I was dating someone and that's, he is kind of how I got introduced to cocaine.
(10:34):
And you know, it started out as just a weekend fun thing that we did and
it turned into an everyday thing.
And I literally was down to 97 pounds.
Remember that very clearly.
Yes, I
You are not a short woman either.
(10:55):
No, no.
I was almost less than a size zero.
I actually, one of my friends lent me her clothes, who is just naturally tiny like that.
She lent me some clothes because none of my pants fit.
I, you know, it was terrible.
Um, but I got involved with a lot of people.
(11:17):
I was running around like dealers, like one of the top.
E dealers in Scottsdale, I was driving him around taking boxes of cash, it would be like$9,000 and depositing it in his bank account because at $10,000 you have the government
(11:39):
looking at those deposits.
there was a whole, it was a thing and found myself down in Tucson with a guy doing a likea pickup.
Um, he was, I forget the term, but, he was restocking his supply and we're riding aroundin this car with two guys that had guns in the front seat.
(12:04):
And I was terrified.
Like, um, how did I get here?
But that kind of life went on.
was somehow got involved in the escort business, not as an escort, but I was managingthem.
So it was almost like being a madam.
working in.
I remember when you would send me, you would tell me things.
(12:27):
And I was like, holy shit, what is going on?
You were open with me about it though.
Yeah, I was making a ton of money.
Yeah.
There was a whole lot of drugs and that scene obviously.
So this went on for years.
I literally like I went to an ENT when I was having a different health problem.
(12:51):
And I was like, I think I have a deviated septum.
And he was looking at he's like, honey, you don't have a septum.
Like I
Physically, it was so bad.
It physically messed me up.
And it was but I was it.
was not only addicted to the cocaine, I was addicted to the popularity, you know, beingthat girl, the cops knew me out front of the nightclubs, you know, it was, it was crazy.
(13:18):
So I went a few nightclubs and I was like, Whoa, this is crazy.
Yeah, I was living the VIP life, uh free to drink.
that's what it was.
I was a character.
Like, um it was, it was something that was so polar opposite to how I grew up and beingbullied and having the feelings I did that came from our home life.
(13:49):
And um
You you and I didn't get along.
And it was because you were popular.
You were the popular one.
Some of your friends were bullying me.
You know, it was and you and I didn't get along.
We were never close.
oh
middle school, high school was like.
(14:10):
It is bad and
I still have scars from things you threw at me for the record.
Belts with a finisher.
Yes, buckle.
think there was a glass ashtray there somewhere too.
Nice.
That got thrown at me like a frisbee.
Sisters fun.
Yeah, teenage girls are so much.
brutal.
I'm over it now.
(14:31):
I harbor no resentment towards you.
I can laugh about it now.
It's actually kind of funny
I know I had a good throwing arm, I think back then.
But yeah, there was just so much stuff that just sits in you and sits in you and it justbuilds up and builds up.
And then when you're introduced to something that makes you feel so different and peopleare looking at you so differently.
(14:59):
And it was like being a character like who's this girl?
Like this is not me.
It just wasn't what I, it wasn't what I did, it, like, it wasn't who I was, but it wasfun.
And I'll admit, I had a lot of fun back then, but it certainly wasn't healthy fun.
(15:22):
um It made me come out of my shell because growing up, I was terribly shy to the point itwas detrimental, but a lot of that came from being bullied and, um,
And you didn't go back to being shy.
that was, if we can say there's one.
That's a good thing.
Silver lining, right?
(15:42):
Is that.
You've remained very outgoing and extra.
It's almost like you were meant to be that way.
Well, you know, I believe everybody's journey brings them to where they are.
You become what your journey, where your journey has taken you.
So yeah, I went through all that and yeah, it was horrible, but it also, you know, moldedwho I am today, which I'm outgoing in a healthy way.
(16:09):
And, um, you know, I've done some really cool things and public speaking and
um had a lot of opportunities, been on the news because of Liam and um just advocating.
share little bit about Liam too, just so everyone kind of knows.
I feel like that's an important part of this as well.
Well, that's, you know, the second chapter of my shme.
(16:33):
I call him my Shmee.
Yeah, so Liam, I was pregnant with Liam uh in 2007 and had a completely normal pregnancy.
um It was, I was so happy to be pregnant.
I felt amazing.
I didn't have a single stretch mark, which I'm so proud of to this day.
(16:56):
um And everything was normal.
Everything seemed normal.
know, when Liam was born and everything was normal, his apgar test, everything was good.
uh But it was around six months old.
He wasn't using his right hand.
(17:18):
I didn't know any better.
I was a single mom at that point.
It was just me.
You and Jake were the ones that were helping me.
uh
We lived right down the street and then I think mom visited and she noticed.
mama come out and stay and help me out.
When you actually notice that he wasn't using that's yeah, and I was like, he's fine.
(17:40):
He's gonna be a lefty.
But you know, whatever, I didn't know any better.
So it ended up turning out that Liam had suffered suffered a stroke, most likely in utero.
He was
Eventually diagnosed with cerebral palsy and it led into epilepsy and it led into autismand ah the diagnoses keep coming as he's older.
(18:09):
know, he's changing.
Yeah.
oh Still changing.
Yeah.
There's a lot.
It's a lot of different stuff now.
That's another episode.
I'm being very serious.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We'll cover that in more detail.
So, but good to like kind of have the context though.
Yeah.
It's a stressful life.
(18:30):
It's all I knew.
I've had a lot of opportunities because of him, but it's also the stress and beingoverwhelmed.
I'm really good at managing stuff till I'm not.
And I have this terrible detriment of not being able to ask for help.
(18:56):
I've carried shame all my life.
That's one of the things that I've discovered in therapy.
uh The overwhelming feeling of shame, whether it started when I was young and it justcarried through, but it was in different ways.
And that's what made it so hard to ask for help because here I am, this mom that everybodyput on a pedestal like,
(19:26):
you're amazing.
And oh, look at all this stuff you're doing.
And I don't know how you do it.
And you work full time.
He has therapies.
He has this.
He has that.
And you do it.
And what people didn't know is like, yeah, I'm doing it.
But here I am drinking at home every night.
And I didn't think it was a problem because I was still functioning.
(19:49):
I, you know, I guess I turned into that functioning alcoholic.
um
Looking back now, I'm aware of that and have discovered that, yeah, I thought this alcoholproblem was just in the past three years or so, but it wasn't.
Can I ask you quick question, Just to frame some of this too, because you had gottensupport with therapy and counseling through Tarot South.
(20:17):
was a, and obviously you can talk about some of the other facilities and supports thatyou've had, but currently you're with the Arizona Women's Recovery Center.
Is that where you felt like you have been, you've been, I don't know, figuring this allout or has it been prior to that?
Like, is this pretty recent?
(20:37):
just like, I don't know.
pretty recent.
So my latest sobriety date was April 2nd.
And that was a Wednesday.
And the following Monday, I started with this program.
And from day one, it was different.
And I'm in an outpatient program.
It wasn't residential.
(20:57):
I did residential.
I did my 30 days.
I was doing outpatient SOP, IOP, therapy, like all the P's.
I was doing it.
Everything out there that was available, you tried it, and it ultimately...
And I was also forced to do it, which is a different, that's another thing that plays intosuccess.
(21:19):
um But I got to this program, it was recommended by my case manager at Taros.
uh She was at this last relapse, she's like, I don't know what to do.
I don't know what to do with you.
We've got to just put you back in rehab.
(21:41):
And I'm like, what, just so I
go over all the things I've learned.
already know the coping skills.
I already know all the things.
Something isn't working.
Like something...
How long had you been going through different recovery programs at this point, Megan?
been in two years or so.
Two years.
(22:02):
more.
I'm it's kind of a blur.
Dave would probably be the better one to ask that.
uh
was up and down, right?
Like you would be great for a while and then you wouldn't be and then you try somethingelse and then that stopped working.
so it was kind of, yeah, it was an up and down for a while.
And I saw you in some pretty, pretty bad places.
(22:22):
Yeah.
So.
Oh, well, my first stay was at copper Springs, which is for mental health.
Um, it wasn't necessarily for drug.
was for mental health because I was having these manic episodes where I'd be crying,bawling, and then I'm laughing.
(22:43):
And it was just literally like this.
And, what people, I don't know if you guys know or don't know, but
I was drinking then and that was feeding that, I never said that out.
I figured you were.
Yeah.
Yeah, I didn't think you were so.
So it got to the point, yeah, that was happening.
(23:06):
So they put me there, I think I was there for four or five days and that was interesting.
And they diagnosed me as being bipolar in there.
So they changed up my meds and then everything was perfect, whatever.
And it wasn't, but I came out of that, everything was okay.
(23:27):
And then...
things went back to not being okay, but it was alcohol.
And Dave, who is my partner.
oh We haven't mentioned Dave, just Dave.
Dave is, Dave and I have been together for nine and a half years and we live together.
(23:50):
So he's seen the best and the worst of everything.
And I talk to Dave a lot through all of this sometimes daily
Yeah, I know.
I know.
Yeah.
Well, I like to refer to Dave as the accountability police.
(24:10):
Dave, he was the one who made the 10,000 pound phone call to DCS, which is the Departmentof Child uh Children's Services, or CFS, whatever they go by different names.
um
Basically, these are the people that get involved and they came in and removed Liam fromthe home.
(24:35):
They put him in a group home.
ah I was ordered because at this point everything got into the courts.
Oh no, this was round two.
Wait, was this?
Oh, you're talking about the first time.
Okay.
Sorry.
We were talking about the first time.
I'm kind of going over the history.
(24:55):
I know, sorry, we've kind of gone back and forth a little bit.
So we're kind of jumping around a bit.
So,
um This is like two, two and a half, three years ago.
Yeah.
Liam got removed from the home.
I was ordered to participate in SOP or yeah, SOP classes and that took place at Taros.
(25:20):
Um, is it standard outpatient?
uh
Gosh, I don't even know.
about right.
There's so many acronyms and all this.
So I did that.
It was outpatient in a women's group.
(25:42):
It was fine.
We met twice a week.
um I was doing okay then.
And then we were able to get, Liam ended up being with Group Home, think it was what, twomonths, three months?
was an adult group home, so it really wasn't the right place for him or them.
(26:04):
Because Liam needed to be in a medical home because of all his stuff, medical diagnoses.
And last minute like that, there's not a lot of options.
Yeah, there's not.
So that happened.
was doing good.
Liam finally comes home.
Everything's all hunky-dory.
(26:26):
The court eventually closes my case.
DCS gone out of the picture, right?
Then I relapse.
it's kind of, it gets jumbled in my head, but I relapse.
ah
I think I started back in SOP or I think this is when Dave had to make the second phonecall to DCS.
(26:52):
And he called and told them what was happening.
They came in.
um I was ordered to do IOP classes.
I, or no, I was put back in SOP class, the same one I was in.
So,
tarot.
(27:13):
Yeah, and ended up I was doing okay.
That would have been last fall, right?
So almost a year ago.
Yeah.
I was having to do the UAs, which are urine analysis tests, random multiple times a week.
And I was doing fine.
And then I wasn't doing fine.
(27:34):
I relapsed again.
And at that point, that's when DCS took Liam again.
And I was in IOP, which is intensive outpatient.
It's intensive outpatient treatment.
don't know.
I don't know what the police stands for.
(27:55):
And that was like earlier this year, 2025.
I think that was like the February-ish timeframe.
Yeah, so there's been a lot of, you know, in and out of stuff.
It's it's very but this has been over the past three years.
This was the second time Liam got removed from the home and he was put in a horriblegroup.
I wasn't allowed.
(28:17):
I wasn't allowed to see him for talk to him for a bit and then they finally allowed thatin but it had to be supervised.
Dave.
was able to remove Liam from the home to take him out.
But then my UAs came out positive and it just then the court put on a, where it had to besupervised.
(28:44):
They were trying to make it where I could only see him four hours a week.
And he was in this horrible place that just, you know, it was bad.
It was no No.
And so we were fighting to get him out.
And then that's
or ah ordered me to go, they gave me the choice.
(29:06):
He was still in the group home.
They gave me the, basically said you need to do residential treatment, 30 day residential,which I was so upset about, horrible, didn't want to do it, but it was either that or I
think give up custody.
I think it got that bad where they were talking about that kind of stuff.
(29:29):
horrible it was this bad like how can i oh
to go into that.
That was the only option.
I mean, my decision, but I had to make that decision.
Came here and he stayed with me for a little while.
Yeah, Liam was staying with you.
You guys were taking him every weekend.
um was bad.
(29:51):
Yeah.
And I couldn't talk to anybody for the first two weeks.
You couldn't be on the phone.
um What I know now that that wasn't such a great place either.
ah I had nothing to compare it to.
It was my first time in rehab.
So.
um
(30:14):
And this is one of those nice luxury rehabs.
Let's be clear about that because it's like the access paid for rehab.
Yeah.
And before that I ended up in CBI, is community bridges, whatever.
Oh yeah.
CBI psych, which, oh my goodness, this place, it was scary.
(30:37):
I, it was homeless people, people that had all kinds of like serious mental health issues.
And I saw some things in there fights.
Like it was horrible.
It was so bad.
And I think I was only there for three nights.
There's no beds.
(30:58):
You're in one big room with everybody on a recliner.
That's it.
I know it was sorry.
I had a face like that too when I heard about it too.
So I was like,
I was with...
It wasn't recovery.
It was just they don't
(31:19):
not going to recover from anything in an environment like that.
No, and it wasn't it was like you saw the psych doctor who you'd see them for like fiveminutes and they were basically the ones who had to determine when you could be released
and it was it was so bad and I never want to be put in a place like that again.
(31:44):
I never want to be put anywhere.
So
I mean, it's the forced into it that is a big part of why it doesn't work too, right?
If you don't want the recovery, you're not going to recover.
Like that's big part of the addiction problem.
when Dave called the cops on me because I was having I was drunk and having
(32:07):
This is after you got back from that 30 day.
Yeah, and I had like it was like a psychotic episode.
It was so bad.
There were knives involved.
There were threats made.
I got taken away by the police, not arrested, but the police took me.
The officer was super nice.
um But that was my first time riding in the back of a police car, like to be takensomewhere, not because I was riding to the hospital for dad or, you know.
(32:40):
whatever, anytime I'd been in a police car, was not for a bad thing.
It was actually for a good thing.
but anyway, so the cops took me away, put me in that place, got out, still drinking.
And that's when there was this big old meeting that was so super fun.
I, people, everybody, it was like tearing me up and I was bawling.
(33:06):
But that's when it was decided that I needed
was on that call.
Yeah, that was that's when they put me in inpatient for 30 days came out of that relapsedagain, literally the day after I got out.
That's right.
It's it's it's brutal.
It sounds to me like you were just repeating the cycle of trauma though.
(33:29):
That's going to make it worse instead of better.
Well, this is what I know now.
uh Being in the program I'm at now, uh I'm going to call it the AWRC.
Arizona Women's Recovery Center.
They actually do something.
They are a model that I wish every place would adapt.
(33:49):
But they they do addiction treatment, but they also do mental health treatment.
I mean, like,
like mental health treatment.
Addiction doesn't come out of the blue.
comes because there's some addiction is the bandaid addiction is a symptom.
Um, I sound like the therapist I've been working with, but addiction is a symptom ofsomething deeper and at no point in all the things that led me up to me getting in this
(34:23):
program, did the mental health part ever get addressed, which is
crazy to me.
That's how do we, how does, how does that get missed?
Yeah.
You know, or just overlooked or literally chosen not to deal with.
Not from you.
(34:43):
Every single program I had done over the past like two and a half years was repeating thesame stuff, teaching you the same stuff, doing the same thing.
You're never actually getting treatment like the treatment you need to help you.
And you're never going to lose, you know, you're always going to be someone in recovery.
(35:07):
You're never going to not be that person.
Um, it's for life.
And, but that, that was the missing piece.
When I got into this program, I'm going four times a week.
Um, that was their version of IOP.
I was in a group.
was all in it's all women.
(35:31):
and what they do was so completely different.
And I felt that on the first day, very first day I was like, this is different.
They also have a residential program as well to mention that.
With young babies, infants to young children where the children can stay with them.
(35:53):
Nobody does that.
ah They do it and then
were inpatient, right?
So I think it was like you and maybe one other person who are outpatient.
Yeah, I was like one of two outpatients that were there.
So everybody else was impatient.
And then, you know, you go from one house to the next house and where it's looser and, youknow, you graduate up to different but there's a lot of housing opportunities for them
(36:21):
there.
So I don't know as much about that end of the program.
That's where, you know, when you speak to um some of the
Yeah, that people I've recommended.
We are going to do hopefully one or two episodes with a couple of the doctors ortherapists from AWRC.
(36:42):
uh
And what they'll speak to is so much more than I can say, but this program is completelydifferent and nobody does it.
Nobody follows this model.
And
Why not is...
My question...
It's a new thing.
(37:03):
needs to gather the data to show everybody that it works.
not new.
They've been around for, I don't know how long, but they're not a new program.
They've been around, but nobody does this.
they, you know, they do the medical side of things where you can get your meds and ah theyhave psychiatrists, they offer therapy, they do.
(37:31):
the whole spectrum of things, but they do it in a different way than anybody else is doingit.
um And I believe that is one of the absolute most integral pieces to where I'm at today,at my almost five months.
I feel great.
(37:51):
I look forward to going to my uh groups every week.
I've graduated from the IOP to
their SOP, is a mindfulness group where it's just me and a couple other ladies and thefacilitator, which one is Dr.
Holly, the other is Jojo where we meet twice a week.
(38:14):
We do meditation.
We dig deep into.
Oh yeah.
Everywhere it is.
I know.
episode.
I gotta bring you to my, yeah, I'll talk to you later, but yeah, you gotta do liquidbreath work.
Ryan and Shelby coming up.
Yeah, and we've done we've learned some breath work, but we've done it very minimally, butI know they can go deeper into it.
(38:39):
That's Dr.
Holly.
So she does that kind of stuff.
um But yeah, we it's because it's it's literally like me and four other women in thisgroup.
And because it's so small, you're
You always feel like you're getting one-on-one attention, even in the SOP group, which wasa larger.
(39:03):
You walk in the front doors and people know your name and you get greeted with hugs andit's just the most welcoming place.
They know you.
They, you just feel, I will say this and I can't say this about pretty much anything elsethat I've done, but you, they genuinely love.
(39:26):
the women that they're helping.
They love the children of the women that they're helping.
They are excited to see you succeed.
And most of the staff there are recovering addicts, many of which have actually graduatedtheir program, AWRC's program.
There's a lot of people there that work there that have gone through the whole uhtreatment.
(39:52):
uh
so glad that Judy brought you in.
Judy, right?
was Judy from.
uh
You're a my god, I'm totally blanking because I'm
That amazing woman who suggested this program who graduated.
Julie, was close.
(40:13):
Okay, Julie.
I'm glad that
one.
Yeah, she was she was a graduate from it.
Yeah, that was that phone call where she was like, I don't know what to do with you.
I don't know what to do with you.
And then she's like,
was like the light bulb went off and she was like, uh
Yeah.
And she's like, this is going to be harder for you to do because it's in downtown Phoenix.
(40:36):
And, you know, you'll have to drive the expectations are more as far as attendance andthings like that.
But yeah, it's, it was, I didn't have a car at that time because mom was here.
We eventually got so backtracked.
got Liam out of group home, but that deal was mom had to live here.
(41:01):
and she became the CPC, which is the uh child's physical custody uh guardian.
She was there for like three months?
Yeah, I wasn't allowed to be alone with Liam.
No, and she came back with him a couple times and they up there.
was yeah, I wasn't allowed to be with my own child and that sucks uh Yeah, it'sembarrassing.
(41:27):
It's Something to be ashamed of I didn't tell people this I kind of isolated myself fromeverybody except for eyes because Just couldn't I couldn't do Friends at the time.
I couldn't you know, I couldn't do any that I just was working on me
(41:48):
and working on being the mom that I know I am and could get back to being, but better.
um So yeah, I wasn't allowed to be with Liam the whole time I've been, well, not the wholetime I've been attending this program, but um yeah.
So yeah, but I've been in this program for just over five months and have met some amazingpeople.
(42:18):
Every staff that I have met there, I'm like, my god, they're awesome.
I love and are all different.
They all do different things.
They all help you in different ways.
But it's both pieces and you really need to work on that mental health piece in order tohelp the addiction piece that comes before the addiction.
(42:42):
But that's what is missing and everything else.
Yeah, a lot of rehabs just, they want to give you other drugs to get you off the drugsyou're on.
Yeah
That's a lot of it too.
Absolutely.
um So yeah, I, when I was in rehab, there were girls that were on a, what is that?
(43:04):
There's Suboxone and Methadone.
And one of the girls flat out said, I'm here getting high.
And legally do it.
Yeah, they give you doses.
Ira.
He was on methadone for years.
mouth hanging open, drooling, like, how is that helping someone?
(43:26):
What is that doing?
That's just giving them that high, but in uh legal way.
I mean, she was right.
So, but anyway, I, luckily I didn't have to do any of that because I had, I hadn't donecocaine since God, you know, probably two years before Liam was born.
(43:47):
So I had gotten off of that myself.
I just stopped cold turkey.
I had the crap scared out of me, which made me.
I was actually going to ask about that because we kind of the timeline where you were inthe party scene in Scottsdale with all these more illicit kind of drugs and then it jumped
forward to, you know, the alcohol.
I was going to actually ask how, like what happened in between those things.
(44:10):
Cause it seemed like you were on one road of addiction, but then all of a sudden you wereon another one.
I was going to ask if it was, if it was the getting pregnant that got you off of it, butyou said it was two years before Liam.
Oh, was...
Maybe...
What was your process there?
did you go about actually getting out of the addiction the first time?
So the deeper I got in that scene and the more shady people I was hanging out with thedealers and you know, I had a dealer living in my home.
(44:41):
didn't pay rent.
He paid me a coke.
So things like that.
And the deeper I got, the worse the scene got for me.
And I was I was bounced around.
I, you know, I lost my home.
I uh
live with me for a little while.
with
(45:02):
and motor helps her move into the new place.
Yeah.
I found another place to live and pay.
No, I was in one of the worst neighborhoods you could be.
was known for their gang dealings and all that.
So, um, I was there.
I don't even know how long, um, still doing the thing next thing you knew I was sellingit.
(45:28):
I had half a key in my possession one time and was selling it, uh, or trying to sell it.
I ended up doing most of it and getting in trouble with the guy who gave it to me to sellit.
Yeah, they front you, they front you, which they They give you the drug and then you sellit and then you pay them back.
(45:53):
And yeah, so I got messed up.
Yeah, you finally got out of that.
then
I got out of it and this is how I got out of it.
I was kind of couch hopping.
I had a place to live, but I was hanging out and partying with my friends and, you know,going from the club, you go back and after party and blah, blah, blah.
(46:14):
Well, one of the places I was staying at where one of the dealers lived, I was sleeping ontheir couch almost every single night.
And this one day, that's when
because I got kicked out of the place I was renting in the bad neighborhood.
That one day, I, you know, I ended up moving back into dad's.
(46:37):
The day I was, yes, the day I was moving was the day that house where I was staying gotraided.
It had been under surveillance.
They had undercovers were across the street and one of the townhomes across the streetwatching.
the guy that I was driving around and depositing money for.
(47:01):
That one day I wasn't there.
You just disappeared.
I had disappeared and I had heard what happened.
Everybody got arrested and that was in the house.
Think you
oh And I wasn't there so that scared the shit out of me, excuse my language, but
(47:23):
And you lost your connection.
You your source.
You lost everything.
Well, and I had other sources and I ended up going home with them, but um I was afraid thecops were looking for me.
Nobody knew where dad lived.
Nobody knew his name.
(47:43):
My car had always been parked out front of this house that got raided.
I'm like, they got my license plate number.
They're going to find me.
I'm going to get arrest.
Every time somebody came to the fricking door, I was like, it's going to be the cops.
It's going to be the cops.
And that's what I, how I was living for probably a good month of living at dad's.
I was still partying.
(48:04):
was still, I wasn't even partying at that point.
I was just buying stuff and staying in the bedroom by myself and doing it.
And, um, I don't know if dad knew or not.
He never, he never said anything about.
Yeah, I don't, you know, he was probably too drunk to know the difference, but.
(48:26):
um Yeah, so eventually another friend got not raided but got arrested for dealing who Iwas buying from.
I'm like, okay.
The cards were falling.
This is too many, you're getting lucky.
This is like the cat with nine lives.
(48:47):
My lives are running out.
So I gotta change things up.
And that's when I met Liam's dad and that ended up not being a great situation, but that'sa whole other, I can do a whole thing on blended families now.
We'll bring you back for another episode.
Maybe more about that because.
(49:09):
so you got a Liam blah blah blah.
We're there and then you fell into the drinking addiction at some point later on,obviously because of all of this other stuff that kind of started.
Right.
Sorry, just trying to bring it full circle here.
So.
Yeah, no, I know.
that's my life was crazy.
It's been crazy.
(49:29):
Like the past 20 years have been crazy.
I have done crazy things I have seen and heard I have you name it.
I probably have done it.
um
been some good points though.
mean, like I even think about like when Zane was born and you live down the road from meand you had Liam and she took care of Zane.
(49:51):
I was sober.
Yeah, she was sober and you know, life was good.
I ended up doing daycare for you and had to stay in my house five days a week.
and at UCP and that was like a really really good good time yeah but yeah
I mean, was while I was working at UCP is when I started drinking wine every night, myboxed wine every night.
(50:17):
Yes.
uh
would ever anytime you come up to Flagstaff, she would have her box.
Wait, and I actually I would.
I mean, I like to drink wine too, but man, I saw you throw back a couple times like, damn,how'd she do that?
and I didn't think anything of it honestly didn't even think anything of it at that pointI didn't either oh well we always sit around have one whenever one comes up
(50:40):
It seems such an innocuous thing.
Exactly.
Didn't think anything of it.
It was just what I did.
And it just escalated and progressed over the years.
And then you're not dealing with the stuff, right?
That's causing it.
uh
up because now I have the old stuff, the childhood trauma stuff, the all that stuff.
(51:03):
And now you add Liam to the mix dealing with all that stress, which, that's lot.
Yeah.
And so it just progressed.
And even being, when I met Dave and
He would, every weekend I would come over, he'd have the box of wine waiting for me.
(51:27):
Well, I already had like probably three, four during the week, boxes, the big boxes.
It just, it was like that.
And, but again, I didn't think it was a problem because I was still working.
was doing, doing everything.
Um, but eventually it became a problem and I had, I don't know what it was.
(51:49):
I think it was around the time Liam had his brain surgery.
Then I switched over to hard liquor.
Fireball.
Fireball.
Yeah, that'll do it.
And I actually, be honest with you, Megan, I actually didn't realize you were drinkingthat much.
I didn't know.
I mean, I was up here, right?
Like I wasn't there.
I didn't do it in front of people.
No, I didn't notice it.
(52:09):
And you were like pretty even.
did it.
So.
I it at home.
I kept it, you know, I got good at lying.
I got good at covering myself.
I stopped going to events.
just, takes you out of living life.
(52:31):
Yeah.
You know, it becomes the number one thing.
It's like above all the other things.
And at one point, finally became above Liam.
It became above my relationship with Dave.
It became above me taking care of my pets.
It kept me in a room by myself, never answering the phone.
(52:54):
um It just, it became, that was it.
That's all I wanted to do.
I just wanted to check out, out.
And...
That's when I was failing.
I was failing at everything.
um And it literally took me out of life.
(53:15):
ah I just, wasn't living anymore.
was, know, Dave eventually took the keys to my car and I would walk to the grocery store.
would walk drunk as hell buying big bottles of vodka and putting them in a backpack.
And at one point I like,
(53:38):
Before I started this program, before that, was the last relapse that this stuff washappening.
I was sitting on a bench at the bus stop drinking vodka.
Like it's a hundred something degrees outside, cause you live in Phoenix.
uh
Yeah, I remember being on the phone with Dave and he was like, on the app, he was seeingwhere you were going.
(54:01):
He's like, all right, she's in price.
He's like, I can tell where she is in the store.
He knew exactly that you were going to liquor.
He was like, literally tracking you and telling me like, all right, and here she is now.
I think she's probably sitting on the side of the road right now.
And apparently
that became Dave's life too, which sucks.
Because Dave, just a little thing on Dave, his second wife, she passed away.
(54:28):
She literally drowned in a bathtub being high on pills and alcohol.
She was a major drunk.
yeah.
So to put Dave through that again and to become that person he loved,
Um, and him having to watch that all over again, it became his life tracking where I wastaking care of Liam when I was cast.
(54:55):
Yeah.
don't know this guy, but he sounds like a saint.
He, yeah, yeah, he is everything.
So everything good.
um
So you're, you're, I'm just checking time here, Megan.
And I know that you need to pick up Liam.
So, yeah, yeah.
(55:16):
She has pick up Liam.
Can I ask one more question?
Yeah, let's just start to like wrap things up because I want to go ahead.
We're gonna celebrate something to you.
talked about how the program you're now that's actually working on like all the other onesyou tried is different in their approach.
But it was your approach different going in.
Did you actually want to go in this time or your mentality different?
(55:39):
This last relapse, I made all the phone calls.
I actually asked for help.
I called everybody on my professional team and I said, I have to stop.
I need help, which I'd never done before.
That's what makes a difference too.
When you want it, um being forced into it takes that out of it.
(56:04):
But when you want it, you have to want it to succeed.
And this is going to be something I live with forever.
You know, it's always something I'm going to have to be mindful of.
And I've learned a lot, a lot of coping skills I'm actually using now.
Communication just, it's changed so many aspects of my life and being my self-awareness ishuge.
(56:32):
Just noticing what I'm feeling and what I need to do, when to ask for help and
Um, yeah, I haven't been triggered.
I haven't had a single episode since I started this program where I felt like, Oh man, Ireally wish I could have a drink.
Nothing.
(56:52):
And that may come.
I have to be mindful of that.
You know, holidays, I have to be mindful of that because I don't want to put a damper oneverybody else's, but I know it's fun for everyone, but you guys are all normies.
That's what we call them.
norming.
Normies, that's the term.
(57:12):
Yeah.
So that's the term we use.
um I have to, know, Dave and I have had to do that, or I like, you know, I don't think Ishould go.
And I don't do that to piss anybody off or make anyone sad.
I'm doing that to protect myself.
um So if that ever happens, that's why.
(57:35):
And I'll try to communicate that I'll try to say that I don't think it's a good idea.
So um that's
to have that kind of self awareness and like self control, right?
What a huge step.
mean, that's massively different than
That's how you overcome addiction, right there.
Yeah.
Going to the grocery store became a thing.
I couldn't shop by myself because just seeing the bottles and grocery stores are awfulbecause it's everywhere in the store.
(58:04):
holidays.
my God.
It's like, you know, everywhere.
So that was something I had to do.
gosh.
uh
Hyper awareness.
I won't drop the name of the place, but the grocery store I go to, uh, to grab lunch alot.
go to the self checkout and in the, as you stand in line at the self checkout, there'sthis big turnstile little shooters of booze, every kind of booze that comes in a shooter.
(58:30):
mean, there's thousands of little shooters of booze just on this little turnstile registerfor the kids.
now booze there.
don't shop where you shop.
It's safe way.
Yeah, all the big girls, fries, basses, all
it's the grocery store.
It's not a ghetto place.
(58:52):
It is a primary shopping spot for everyone in Flagstaff.
I'm pretty sure fries is doing it now too.
right by the checkout.
Like they're pushing multiple store now.
And I really look at that and I'm like, are you like, they're trying to get people tospontaneously buy booze that they weren't planning on buying.
(59:12):
I did.
It's worse than the candy bar.
did read something recently.
I might have to share this article in the, the, in the show notes, Jeremy, that thepercentage of people out drinking alcohol though, these days is actually dropped pretty
significantly, which is great.
they don't.
It's not as important.
It's something like, I don't even want to call the stats out, but anyway, we'll put it inthere because I think that's like a good reference to show that desire is going down.
(59:38):
Now you're going to obviously you're, you're battling, you're, you're in recovery, right?
Like
person in recovery.
That's what we say.
That's for life.
It's like a big old scar on your brain.
Yeah.
It's, know, uh big scar on your face.
People know you, were injured.
You can't see this scar, but it's a scar that you got to carry around.
(59:59):
Yeah.
Well, and addiction is referred to as a disease and it's treated as such.
It's something you have forever.
um So, but it's different, but it's the same.
So it's just something I always have to be aware of.
I always have to protect myself.
um And that's, you know, I've had times where I've told Dave, like for the longest time,he didn't bring anything in the house.
(01:00:25):
We have a toolbox.
with a lock on it.
So if he does have anything, I'm okay with him having a drink, whatever, that's fine.
But he has to keep the bottles locked up so I don't see them.
And that's it, one box.
We don't have the bar anymore, which we used to have.
We don't have any of them.
(01:00:45):
So um our household has had to change.
Everybody's had to adapt.
So yeah, to protect me and because he loves me.
Liam tells me he's proud of me all the time.
Mom, you're beautiful.
I'm so proud of you.
He just says it on his own.
that's because he was
(01:01:06):
That's awesome.
about his feeling over that.
Yeah, he really was.
was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Everyone's happy.
We're all very proud of you, Megan.
You need the truth to heal, man.
Yeah.
But you need the truth to heal.
And again, I'm just checking time because I don't want you to be late.
But it's fine.
(01:01:26):
want to I want to celebrate you texted me before we got on.
And Megan has some really great news to share.
And I've got I have celebratory things.
I'm ready.
So just this morning, uh, got, uh, an email from my attorney saying my case was dismissed.
(01:01:47):
So everything is closed out DCS.
Uh, I guess testing.
Yes.
All that it's all that I have full legal guardianship of Liam again.
Um, so that's of today as of today.
yes, it was, that was big.
(01:02:08):
That's a big deal.
I to do the happy dance.
dance.
So, cow up.
I don't hear it ringing.
you don't hear that?
No!
Zoom might be filtering it out.
uh
maybe.
oh That's weird.
There we go.
(01:02:31):
That was huge with her pom poms.
No, this is amazing.
uh I'm so proud of you, Megan.
And it's been, have watched you.
I have been very close to this uh from the beginning and, and seen everything that she'sgone through and it's been hard.
There's been some times where I thought, my God, this is, you know, so to see, to see youfive months out.
(01:02:57):
in this program, which has been amazing for you.
Like we're just, you know, I think everyone is just, we're grateful.
That's it.
Didn't.
That way.
I lifted that from, yeah, it was hard.
That's one of the biggest things to know how much I hurt everybody in this, but I alsohave to be able to not dwell on that.
(01:03:21):
have to, what makes, what fixes it is my success in sobriety.
So yeah.
It's like a whole new world and chapter and you so
And I'll put links to all these places we were talking about, NURC and things like that.
I'll put all that in the show notes for anyone who is interested.
(01:03:43):
plan is to bring hopefully Dr.
Holly, maybe Jojo on from, from AWRC.
And then maybe we can do a round table and bring you all back together, which would bereally cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that might be.
two hour episode.
uh
It could happen.
Two parter.
Have we done a two parter?
we did with Latham Thomas.
That's our first one.
(01:04:05):
Yeah.
So anyway, um do you want to leave anyone who's hearing this with any advice or words ofwisdom before we close out here?
Sure.
Don't be ashamed.
If you know you're having this problem, whether it's alcohol, drugs, whatever, talk tosomebody.
(01:04:28):
There's so many people, there's so many agencies out there that are there to help you.
And it's taking that first step is the hardest step.
It's the absolute hardest step.
But if you want it,
You can have this.
You can have sobriety, and you can get back to living, because you're not living if that'swhat you're doing.
(01:04:56):
They call it the pink cloud in AA.
There's the pink cloud.
And I'm in the pink cloud, fluffing it up and doing all that.
So you can have this, and you'll feel wonderful.
because everybody will look at you and see you.
You're the toughest person.
(01:05:17):
Nobody can do this for you.
You have to do it for yourself.
So that's, that's probably the thing.
and find something like a WRC, right?
Because it was kind of the
And there are there's great programs out there.
There's a lot and you know, go to an AA group.
(01:05:39):
You can walk in, you know, you're going to be greeted with love.
And you still attend to A-Meetings, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
So, um, not as much, but I get more from this program right now, but I think when I'mdone, then I'll, I'll make it a point to attend even more meetings.
(01:06:02):
So yeah, I do.
There's virtual meetings.
If you didn't know that there's virtual meetings, you don't have to go in person.
can just get on, you search, AA in my area.
And there's a.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
I can.
I'll send you the information for local.
(01:06:24):
But yeah, there's all kinds of there's so much out there that's there to help.
And there's no shame.
You will not be judged for this.
Just take that first step.
All right, Megan, thanks for coming on and being honest and vulnerable.
(01:06:46):
This is not easy to do.
oh
done.
Jared publicly in any public forum.
So this is a big deal.
And a lot of people want to listen to it.
They're like so excited.
I think there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna appreciate this because like Isaid at the beginning, if it's not you, you know somebody, you know, someone's per, you
(01:07:09):
know, that are going through this, whether five months in to their sobriety or 20 years,you know?
So anyway, thank you.
you're welcome.
Thank you both for having me.
It's been a it's been healing.
(01:07:29):
And hopefully it people out there as well.
Yeah.
Yes, absolutely.
And there you go, our conversation with Megan Marshall about addiction and recovery.
I guess is pretty much the whole point of the thing, but what's the main takeaways here,Heather?
(01:07:52):
Um, well, obviously interviewing my own sister might be a little awkward anduncomfortable, especially based on where some of her root issues come from.
part of that story.
I mean, it wasn't my fault.
Yeah.
But you know, I mean, I knew what she was going to say, so I wasn't surprised by it.
(01:08:13):
And, and I mean, does it still feel kind of crappy to hear her say it loud?
Yeah, it totally does.
Like that definitely affects me.
And, you know, having been pretty close with my sister or most of most of our livesanyway, um know, aside from those couple years in, um I don't know, middle high school
where we hated each other.
um
(01:08:34):
I mean, teenagers are crazy by definition.
the chemistry in your brain when you're that age does not allow you to be sane.
Yeah, but- It's just something we all have to go through.
I look at my boys now.
I mean, they have almost five years apart, five years between them, but like, they aren'tlike, I love hanging out with you brother.
Like there's definitely not, keep telling them when they're older, they're going todefinitely want to hang out more.
(01:08:58):
But, um, but yeah, like despite, you know, those ups and downs, nothing on normalabnormal.
Um, but yeah, you know, having sat in the passenger seat or the vac seat in Megan's lifeand watching her go through a lot of this stuff.
being the one who shows up and helps her being the one who bails, bails her out a lot ofthe time.
(01:09:19):
Um, you know, it's been really hard for me, uh, as her sister to watch her go through thatand feeling pretty helpless.
Um, so, you know, that's a little unusual, but I'm also like here to share on, know, andI've always.
I'm sure there's that element where you have the duality of, uh, you're, get annoyed thatyou have to help her so much, but wish there was a way you could help her more all at the
(01:09:41):
same time.
That's the sort of thing that family does.
Yeah.
That's what, you know, it's just a swirl of emotion that you can't control at some points.
which for her, going through all of this, you know, and seeing all the things that didn'thelp, right?
And for so long and just hoping the next thing would help, you know, and then, and itdidn't, and she recognized that.
(01:10:03):
then, finding Arizona Women's Recovery Center has been a game changer for her.
So,
and finding the desire within herself to really actually want to get sober.
Right, right.
And not find the band aid and, you know, to fix it and really, really kind of dig into it.
You can't fix yourself until you want to be fixed.
(01:10:23):
Right.
I mean, that's a universal rule with people.
Like no matter how much other people are trying to help you and you know, no matter whatsteps you're taking, if you don't really believe in it and you're not really wanting to
solve the problem, it's not going to get solved.
Yeah.
That's the biggest piece of the puzzle, right?
So it's been a huge relief for me and my family to see her go through this finally to findsomething.
(01:10:46):
And it's been an even bigger relief to see her just a completely different person.
And just the acknowledging, like she wouldn't talk about it for a long, know, she justdidn't talk about it.
Like it didn't exist.
And for her to be acknowledging it, talking about it so openly, I mean, coming on theshow, like that's huge.
And to do that with me, like.
Yeah, it's like facing your monsters.
(01:11:07):
Yeah.
Facing your own demons.
But I mean, she's, you know, coming up on six months, actually, I think.
uh
By the time this comes out, it probably will be six months.
No, it'll be a few days later, but really close.
Yep.
So this show, this episode is going to publish just a few days before her six month markof being sober.
And so that's really exciting.
(01:11:28):
we'll, know, bells and whistles and the, all the things.
Little inspiration for everyone else trying to do the same thing out there.
Yeah, so if she can do it, you can do it.
So, you know, just got to find the right program and you got to want it.
You gotta really, really want it.
That's how I quit smoking cigarettes.
It's like that with any addiction.
(01:11:49):
I smoked cigarettes for 30 years.
I tried quitting half a dozen times, but it was only once I really, really wanted, likethose other times I was like, yeah, I want to quit, I didn't, like, I didn't have the,
like the really deep desire to really not want to do it anymore.
I finally hit that point where it's like, I can't like,
I'm gonna die if I don't stop doing this.
(01:12:10):
Like I could feel the COPD setting in.
I got out just in time and now I feel so much better.
My lungs feel better.
And once you do it, you go, man, I wish I could have done that earlier.
I definitely have never met anyone that has stopped drinking and has been sober and says,gosh, I wish I had never stopped doing that.
Exactly.
(01:12:30):
Like they're thrilled and
the best thing you ever did.
Once you do it, it's the best thing you ever
Mostly regretful that they hadn't done it sooner.
Right.
Right.
That's the only regret is I wish I would have quit sooner.
Yeah, so anyway, that's what I got.
If you want to, if you like what you're hearing, you want to keep up with us here on thehealthcare uprising, we're to have more and more of these personal stories, I believe, as
(01:12:52):
we move forward.
At least that's the plan.
So if you, if you like this kind of episode, make sure you hit that auto download buttonor ring the bell or whatever it is on the platform you're on so that you can catch all the
episodes as they come out.
We are on YouTube.
We are on all the major listening platforms.
We've got a Patreon, patreon.com slash healthcare uprising.
If you want to throw us a little bit of monetary support.
(01:13:13):
ah Patreon YouTube is full of video so can see us, you can watch us instead of just listento us if you prefer.
I think that's all for me, what about for you Heather?
Well, you can find us online at healthcare uprising.com, which is basically our pod beingwebsite.
So um more to come on that.
know I say that at the end of every single show.
(01:13:34):
I'm going to work on.
We finally are making real major plans for a real website, so stand by.
It's coming.
I promise.
so you can't go online, but mostly follow us on social media, like us, follow whateverthe, the thing you have to do is because we are on LinkedIn, we are on Instagram, Facebook
and blue sky.
(01:13:54):
So we post out there.
Um, anytime we have episodes that drop, we'd like to reshare stories.
We like to share relevant stories around topics that we cover.
So it's a great place to stay in the know as well.
Um, on anything healthcare related.
Um, and if you have a story, if you're a company who focuses on supporting and deliveringservices and healthcare space to consumers, because side note, are starting to make a bit
(01:14:22):
of a very intentful shift to focus show, um, completely on consumer focused products,programs, services, subscriptions, all the things that help all of us real people out on
the street.
give us a shout at healthcare uprising at gmail.com.
We'd love to bring you on the show and talk about what you're doing or whatever your storyis.
So with that, I think that's all I got Jeremy.
(01:14:46):
So keep looking for the good in the world.
Sometimes it's where you least expect it.
(01:15:46):
This has been a Shut Up production.
Shut up!
Alright, hello Health Heads.
Welcome and thank you for checking in to this dose of the healthcare uprising.
I am your producer in the back, Jeremy Card, here with your host in the front row, HeatherPierce.
So what are we doing today, Heather?
Well, today we have a human stories episode.
This one is with my sister, Megan Marshall.
(00:34):
She's here to talk openly and very bravely about her decades, decades long battles.
Yes, I'm saying that plural with on again, off again, addiction, fully uncovering andfacing the root cause of her addiction.
And most importantly, finally finding a program that has given her the pathway to realrecovery.
(00:56):
acceptance and a healthier way forward.
She is a rock star devoted mom to a 17 year old special needs child Liam, who is also mynephew, who I lovingly called my Shmee, and a nurturer of many, many, many things.
So if you know Megan, you know that she is, uh she's like the she's like the mom.
So yeah.
but you took quite the road to get there so without further ado let's get into ourconversation with Megan Marshall
(01:30):
Hi and welcome to the healthcare uprising podcast.
Today we have Megan Marshall with us who happens to be my sister.
Megan, welcome to the show.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, today we're going to be talking about Megan's journey with addiction and recoverycurrently in recovery.
So we're going to celebrate a little bit today too.
this is a little different.
(01:53):
little.
Yeah, having my own sister on the show, but I think this is really, it's a story I thinkand an experience that will resonate with a lot of people.
Whether you've gone through addiction and recovery yourself personally.
And I think we've all known somebody who has.
So anyway, I'm going to, I'm going to buckle up.
(02:16):
I'm buckling up for this one because even I'm going to probably hear some things for thefirst time.
Um, so yeah.
So with that, let's, let's start the beginning.
So really just start where you want, honestly, um, whatever you want to share that kind ofhas brought you to this point.
And maybe you can tell us, um, how
(02:37):
how far along in recovery you are and then really just kind of what's your story.
Okay, well, um I am recovering from uh alcohol addiction.
I do have uh some drug addiction in my past.
um So we'll talk about that.
(02:58):
But next Wednesday is five months over for me.
I'm very excited about that, because I haven't gotten this far.
I know, right?
to ring that a couple times today.
Yeah.
months.
Six months mark is like my big first milestone that I'm looking forward to.
(03:19):
But um yeah, so this it's been a roller coaster of a ride.
I've been up and down with my uh sobriety and recovery and then relapse and so on.
So yeah, I mean, it goes.
(03:41):
Way back, there's a lot of underlying issues that I've learned about just doing therapyand the groups and um there's some childhood trauma.
I was diagnosed with PTSD about two years ago.
There's a lot of stuff there from dad.
(04:05):
He's a part of that uh as
I don't know if everybody knows, but our father was a hardcore alcoholic.
And my understanding is he was from the age of 19.
So growing up with in that environment was, it was rough and he, uh, he had differentfeelings about me than he did you.
(04:30):
And I've even talked to mom about it and she's like, yeah, he treated you differently.
So
There was a lot of,
I don't know, it's just, he kind of talked down to me and seemed to be constantlydisappointed in me.
(04:51):
And I could never measure up where in my eyes, the light was shining on you, Heather.
I think you were a lot more like him and yeah, so he could.
(05:11):
that resonated with him.
So where I was very different and I don't know if he just didn't know how to deal with meor or what, but, um you know, I was bullied for years growing up in school and I, I feel
(05:34):
like I got a lot of that from dad as well in a different way, but,
I felt like that.
And that's no fun when you feel like you can never measure up.
You constantly feel so black sheepish.
(05:57):
But it was what it was.
And I think that stuck with me for years, even till he died.
We had a rough relationship.
There was a lot of...
me not talking to him at times.
There were times when I would talk to him and he was really drunk and he would talk to meas if I was mom.
(06:20):
He sometimes called me her name when he was angry.
So I feel like a lot of the issues that him and mom had
He's like, yeah, yeah.
And he died in 2007 just for context, everyone because so it's been a while.
Yeah.
And I was literally that was a very, very tragic night because it was Liam, who's my son,your nephew, his father's the one who found him.
(06:47):
And I was on the phone with him about two minutes before he dropped dead of a massiveheart attack.
that was the night.
a yeah I remember all that like it was yesterday
Yeah, and there was a lot of very bizarre emotions that came with that because at thattime, dad and I were good.
(07:09):
was pregnant with his first grandchild.
He was excited about that.
uh
You were helping him a lot too.
I was at the end
trying to get him to the doctor, trying to get him into rehab, just doing all the things.
yeah.
(07:32):
Yeah.
And the last thing he said to me was, thank you, Megan.
And that's, that's, those are the last words I had with him and he was dead, like rightafter literally right after that.
Which must feel kind of ironic, right?
Because given the nature of your relationship and then...
No.
(07:53):
And you know with me, I don't know if you ever felt this way Heather, but he didn't knowhow to show love necessarily.
I feel like.
Exactly how I would explain it to people like his way of showing was by buying you thingsor giving you money.
(08:15):
There was that one period I didn't talk to him for a year and a half because of the way hehad treated me and the day we talked he said meet me at the car dealership and bought me a
car.
Yeah.
And that's that's just what he did.
I refer to him jokingly as daddy warbucks.
(08:37):
I mean, it was just kind of like that.
It was like that and
money was his love language.
was.
um Very much so.
But that doesn't feel good.
Which is- No.
doesn't feel good.
And you almost feel like is this all I'm worth to you?
You know, you buy me a car, you don't care about what's actually going on with me.
(09:01):
um
But it was the end.
was he was so pickled.
And he, you he had left, you know, he had gotten laid off from work and he was doingconsulting work and then he wasn't doing anything and then he was retired and he was
literally drinking like every single day.
Like, I mean, it was really bad.
So I don't even know.
(09:22):
Like it became like such a transactional thing.
Yeah, just make sure dad's still breathing, you know, literally.
uh
I remember going to his house and like putting a mirror up to his face when he was passedout on the couch when Jake and I would go do yard work and like, yeah, like we weren't
having meaningful conversations in that last six months.
(09:44):
But leading up to that, uh in my, I don't know, mid-twenties, I all of a sudden gotinvolved in nightlife.
Like I always say, I was a Scottsdale rat.
And with that became a lot of popularity.
(10:07):
It's like something I had never experienced in my life.
All of a sudden I was this girl that
you know, got into all the big nightclubs for free, knew the hostesses, hanging out withcelebrities in VIP boxes.
Then I was dating someone and that's, he is kind of how I got introduced to cocaine.
(10:34):
And you know, it started out as just a weekend fun thing that we did and
it turned into an everyday thing.
And I literally was down to 97 pounds.
Remember that very clearly.
Yes, I
You are not a short woman either.
(10:55):
No, no.
I was almost less than a size zero.
I actually, one of my friends lent me her clothes, who is just naturally tiny like that.
She lent me some clothes because none of my pants fit.
I, you know, it was terrible.
Um, but I got involved with a lot of people.
(11:17):
I was running around like dealers, like one of the top.
E dealers in Scottsdale, I was driving him around taking boxes of cash, it would be like$9,000 and depositing it in his bank account because at $10,000 you have the government
(11:39):
looking at those deposits.
there was a whole, it was a thing and found myself down in Tucson with a guy doing a likea pickup.
Um, he was, I forget the term, but, he was restocking his supply and we're riding aroundin this car with two guys that had guns in the front seat.
(12:04):
And I was terrified.
Like, um, how did I get here?
But that kind of life went on.
was somehow got involved in the escort business, not as an escort, but I was managingthem.
So it was almost like being a madam.
working in.
I remember when you would send me, you would tell me things.
(12:27):
And I was like, holy shit, what is going on?
You were open with me about it though.
Yeah, I was making a ton of money.
Yeah.
There was a whole lot of drugs and that scene obviously.
So this went on for years.
I literally like I went to an ENT when I was having a different health problem.
(12:51):
And I was like, I think I have a deviated septum.
And he was looking at he's like, honey, you don't have a septum.
Like I
Physically, it was so bad.
It physically messed me up.
And it was but I was it.
was not only addicted to the cocaine, I was addicted to the popularity, you know, beingthat girl, the cops knew me out front of the nightclubs, you know, it was, it was crazy.
(13:18):
So I went a few nightclubs and I was like, Whoa, this is crazy.
Yeah, I was living the VIP life, uh free to drink.
that's what it was.
I was a character.
Like, um it was, it was something that was so polar opposite to how I grew up and beingbullied and having the feelings I did that came from our home life.
(13:49):
And um
You you and I didn't get along.
And it was because you were popular.
You were the popular one.
Some of your friends were bullying me.
You know, it was and you and I didn't get along.
We were never close.
oh
middle school, high school was like.
(14:10):
It is bad and
I still have scars from things you threw at me for the record.
Belts with a finisher.
Yes, buckle.
think there was a glass ashtray there somewhere too.
Nice.
That got thrown at me like a frisbee.
Sisters fun.
Yeah, teenage girls are so much.
brutal.
I'm over it now.
(14:31):
I harbor no resentment towards you.
I can laugh about it now.
It's actually kind of funny
I know I had a good throwing arm, I think back then.
But yeah, there was just so much stuff that just sits in you and sits in you and it justbuilds up and builds up.
And then when you're introduced to something that makes you feel so different and peopleare looking at you so differently.
(14:59):
And it was like being a character like who's this girl?
Like this is not me.
It just wasn't what I, it wasn't what I did, it, like, it wasn't who I was, but it wasfun.
And I'll admit, I had a lot of fun back then, but it certainly wasn't healthy fun.
(15:22):
um It made me come out of my shell because growing up, I was terribly shy to the point itwas detrimental, but a lot of that came from being bullied and, um,
And you didn't go back to being shy.
that was, if we can say there's one.
That's a good thing.
Silver lining, right?
(15:42):
Is that.
You've remained very outgoing and extra.
It's almost like you were meant to be that way.
Well, you know, I believe everybody's journey brings them to where they are.
You become what your journey, where your journey has taken you.
So yeah, I went through all that and yeah, it was horrible, but it also, you know, moldedwho I am today, which I'm outgoing in a healthy way.
(16:09):
And, um, you know, I've done some really cool things and public speaking and
um had a lot of opportunities, been on the news because of Liam and um just advocating.
share little bit about Liam too, just so everyone kind of knows.
I feel like that's an important part of this as well.
Well, that's, you know, the second chapter of my shme.
(16:33):
I call him my Shmee.
Yeah, so Liam, I was pregnant with Liam uh in 2007 and had a completely normal pregnancy.
um It was, I was so happy to be pregnant.
I felt amazing.
I didn't have a single stretch mark, which I'm so proud of to this day.
(16:56):
um And everything was normal.
Everything seemed normal.
know, when Liam was born and everything was normal, his apgar test, everything was good.
uh But it was around six months old.
He wasn't using his right hand.
(17:18):
I didn't know any better.
I was a single mom at that point.
It was just me.
You and Jake were the ones that were helping me.
uh
We lived right down the street and then I think mom visited and she noticed.
mama come out and stay and help me out.
When you actually notice that he wasn't using that's yeah, and I was like, he's fine.
(17:40):
He's gonna be a lefty.
But you know, whatever, I didn't know any better.
So it ended up turning out that Liam had suffered suffered a stroke, most likely in utero.
He was
Eventually diagnosed with cerebral palsy and it led into epilepsy and it led into autismand ah the diagnoses keep coming as he's older.
(18:09):
know, he's changing.
Yeah.
oh Still changing.
Yeah.
There's a lot.
It's a lot of different stuff now.
That's another episode.
I'm being very serious.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We'll cover that in more detail.
So, but good to like kind of have the context though.
Yeah.
It's a stressful life.
(18:30):
It's all I knew.
I've had a lot of opportunities because of him, but it's also the stress and beingoverwhelmed.
I'm really good at managing stuff till I'm not.
And I have this terrible detriment of not being able to ask for help.
(18:56):
I've carried shame all my life.
That's one of the things that I've discovered in therapy.
uh The overwhelming feeling of shame, whether it started when I was young and it justcarried through, but it was in different ways.
And that's what made it so hard to ask for help because here I am, this mom that everybodyput on a pedestal like,
(19:26):
you're amazing.
And oh, look at all this stuff you're doing.
And I don't know how you do it.
And you work full time.
He has therapies.
He has this.
He has that.
And you do it.
And what people didn't know is like, yeah, I'm doing it.
But here I am drinking at home every night.
And I didn't think it was a problem because I was still functioning.
(19:49):
I, you know, I guess I turned into that functioning alcoholic.
um
Looking back now, I'm aware of that and have discovered that, yeah, I thought this alcoholproblem was just in the past three years or so, but it wasn't.
Can I ask you quick question, Just to frame some of this too, because you had gottensupport with therapy and counseling through Tarot South.
(20:17):
was a, and obviously you can talk about some of the other facilities and supports thatyou've had, but currently you're with the Arizona Women's Recovery Center.
Is that where you felt like you have been, you've been, I don't know, figuring this allout or has it been prior to that?
Like, is this pretty recent?
(20:37):
just like, I don't know.
pretty recent.
So my latest sobriety date was April 2nd.
And that was a Wednesday.
And the following Monday, I started with this program.
And from day one, it was different.
And I'm in an outpatient program.
It wasn't residential.
(20:57):
I did residential.
I did my 30 days.
I was doing outpatient SOP, IOP, therapy, like all the P's.
I was doing it.
Everything out there that was available, you tried it, and it ultimately...
And I was also forced to do it, which is a different, that's another thing that plays intosuccess.
(21:19):
um But I got to this program, it was recommended by my case manager at Taros.
uh She was at this last relapse, she's like, I don't know what to do.
I don't know what to do with you.
We've got to just put you back in rehab.
(21:41):
And I'm like, what, just so I
go over all the things I've learned.
already know the coping skills.
I already know all the things.
Something isn't working.
Like something...
How long had you been going through different recovery programs at this point, Megan?
been in two years or so.
Two years.
(22:02):
more.
I'm it's kind of a blur.
Dave would probably be the better one to ask that.
uh
was up and down, right?
Like you would be great for a while and then you wouldn't be and then you try somethingelse and then that stopped working.
so it was kind of, yeah, it was an up and down for a while.
And I saw you in some pretty, pretty bad places.
(22:22):
Yeah.
So.
Oh, well, my first stay was at copper Springs, which is for mental health.
Um, it wasn't necessarily for drug.
was for mental health because I was having these manic episodes where I'd be crying,bawling, and then I'm laughing.
(22:43):
And it was just literally like this.
And, what people, I don't know if you guys know or don't know, but
I was drinking then and that was feeding that, I never said that out.
I figured you were.
Yeah.
Yeah, I didn't think you were so.
So it got to the point, yeah, that was happening.
(23:06):
So they put me there, I think I was there for four or five days and that was interesting.
And they diagnosed me as being bipolar in there.
So they changed up my meds and then everything was perfect, whatever.
And it wasn't, but I came out of that, everything was okay.
(23:27):
And then...
things went back to not being okay, but it was alcohol.
And Dave, who is my partner.
oh We haven't mentioned Dave, just Dave.
Dave is, Dave and I have been together for nine and a half years and we live together.
(23:50):
So he's seen the best and the worst of everything.
And I talk to Dave a lot through all of this sometimes daily
Yeah, I know.
I know.
Yeah.
Well, I like to refer to Dave as the accountability police.
(24:10):
Dave, he was the one who made the 10,000 pound phone call to DCS, which is the Departmentof Child uh Children's Services, or CFS, whatever they go by different names.
um
Basically, these are the people that get involved and they came in and removed Liam fromthe home.
(24:35):
They put him in a group home.
ah I was ordered because at this point everything got into the courts.
Oh no, this was round two.
Wait, was this?
Oh, you're talking about the first time.
Okay.
Sorry.
We were talking about the first time.
I'm kind of going over the history.
(24:55):
I know, sorry, we've kind of gone back and forth a little bit.
So we're kind of jumping around a bit.
So,
um This is like two, two and a half, three years ago.
Yeah.
Liam got removed from the home.
I was ordered to participate in SOP or yeah, SOP classes and that took place at Taros.
(25:20):
Um, is it standard outpatient?
uh
Gosh, I don't even know.
about right.
There's so many acronyms and all this.
So I did that.
It was outpatient in a women's group.
(25:42):
It was fine.
We met twice a week.
um I was doing okay then.
And then we were able to get, Liam ended up being with Group Home, think it was what, twomonths, three months?
was an adult group home, so it really wasn't the right place for him or them.
(26:04):
Because Liam needed to be in a medical home because of all his stuff, medical diagnoses.
And last minute like that, there's not a lot of options.
Yeah, there's not.
So that happened.
was doing good.
Liam finally comes home.
Everything's all hunky-dory.
(26:26):
The court eventually closes my case.
DCS gone out of the picture, right?
Then I relapse.
it's kind of, it gets jumbled in my head, but I relapse.
ah
I think I started back in SOP or I think this is when Dave had to make the second phonecall to DCS.
(26:52):
And he called and told them what was happening.
They came in.
um I was ordered to do IOP classes.
I, or no, I was put back in SOP class, the same one I was in.
So,
tarot.
(27:13):
Yeah, and ended up I was doing okay.
That would have been last fall, right?
So almost a year ago.
Yeah.
I was having to do the UAs, which are urine analysis tests, random multiple times a week.
And I was doing fine.
And then I wasn't doing fine.
(27:34):
I relapsed again.
And at that point, that's when DCS took Liam again.
And I was in IOP, which is intensive outpatient.
It's intensive outpatient treatment.
don't know.
I don't know what the police stands for.
(27:55):
And that was like earlier this year, 2025.
I think that was like the February-ish timeframe.
Yeah, so there's been a lot of, you know, in and out of stuff.
It's it's very but this has been over the past three years.
This was the second time Liam got removed from the home and he was put in a horriblegroup.
I wasn't allowed.
(28:17):
I wasn't allowed to see him for talk to him for a bit and then they finally allowed thatin but it had to be supervised.
Dave.
was able to remove Liam from the home to take him out.
But then my UAs came out positive and it just then the court put on a, where it had to besupervised.
(28:44):
They were trying to make it where I could only see him four hours a week.
And he was in this horrible place that just, you know, it was bad.
It was no No.
And so we were fighting to get him out.
And then that's
or ah ordered me to go, they gave me the choice.
(29:06):
He was still in the group home.
They gave me the, basically said you need to do residential treatment, 30 day residential,which I was so upset about, horrible, didn't want to do it, but it was either that or I
think give up custody.
I think it got that bad where they were talking about that kind of stuff.
(29:29):
horrible it was this bad like how can i oh
to go into that.
That was the only option.
I mean, my decision, but I had to make that decision.
Came here and he stayed with me for a little while.
Yeah, Liam was staying with you.
You guys were taking him every weekend.
um was bad.
(29:51):
Yeah.
And I couldn't talk to anybody for the first two weeks.
You couldn't be on the phone.
um What I know now that that wasn't such a great place either.
ah I had nothing to compare it to.
It was my first time in rehab.
So.
um
(30:14):
And this is one of those nice luxury rehabs.
Let's be clear about that because it's like the access paid for rehab.
Yeah.
And before that I ended up in CBI, is community bridges, whatever.
Oh yeah.
CBI psych, which, oh my goodness, this place, it was scary.
(30:37):
I, it was homeless people, people that had all kinds of like serious mental health issues.
And I saw some things in there fights.
Like it was horrible.
It was so bad.
And I think I was only there for three nights.
There's no beds.
(30:58):
You're in one big room with everybody on a recliner.
That's it.
I know it was sorry.
I had a face like that too when I heard about it too.
So I was like,
I was with...
It wasn't recovery.
It was just they don't
(31:19):
not going to recover from anything in an environment like that.
No, and it wasn't it was like you saw the psych doctor who you'd see them for like fiveminutes and they were basically the ones who had to determine when you could be released
and it was it was so bad and I never want to be put in a place like that again.
(31:44):
I never want to be put anywhere.
So
I mean, it's the forced into it that is a big part of why it doesn't work too, right?
If you don't want the recovery, you're not going to recover.
Like that's big part of the addiction problem.
when Dave called the cops on me because I was having I was drunk and having
(32:07):
This is after you got back from that 30 day.
Yeah, and I had like it was like a psychotic episode.
It was so bad.
There were knives involved.
There were threats made.
I got taken away by the police, not arrested, but the police took me.
The officer was super nice.
um But that was my first time riding in the back of a police car, like to be takensomewhere, not because I was riding to the hospital for dad or, you know.
(32:40):
whatever, anytime I'd been in a police car, was not for a bad thing.
It was actually for a good thing.
but anyway, so the cops took me away, put me in that place, got out, still drinking.
And that's when there was this big old meeting that was so super fun.
I, people, everybody, it was like tearing me up and I was bawling.
(33:06):
But that's when it was decided that I needed
was on that call.
Yeah, that was that's when they put me in inpatient for 30 days came out of that relapsedagain, literally the day after I got out.
That's right.
It's it's it's brutal.
It sounds to me like you were just repeating the cycle of trauma though.
(33:29):
That's going to make it worse instead of better.
Well, this is what I know now.
uh Being in the program I'm at now, uh I'm going to call it the AWRC.
Arizona Women's Recovery Center.
They actually do something.
They are a model that I wish every place would adapt.
(33:49):
But they they do addiction treatment, but they also do mental health treatment.
I mean, like,
like mental health treatment.
Addiction doesn't come out of the blue.
comes because there's some addiction is the bandaid addiction is a symptom.
Um, I sound like the therapist I've been working with, but addiction is a symptom ofsomething deeper and at no point in all the things that led me up to me getting in this
(34:23):
program, did the mental health part ever get addressed, which is
crazy to me.
That's how do we, how does, how does that get missed?
Yeah.
You know, or just overlooked or literally chosen not to deal with.
Not from you.
(34:43):
Every single program I had done over the past like two and a half years was repeating thesame stuff, teaching you the same stuff, doing the same thing.
You're never actually getting treatment like the treatment you need to help you.
And you're never going to lose, you know, you're always going to be someone in recovery.
(35:07):
You're never going to not be that person.
Um, it's for life.
And, but that, that was the missing piece.
When I got into this program, I'm going four times a week.
Um, that was their version of IOP.
I was in a group.
was all in it's all women.
(35:31):
and what they do was so completely different.
And I felt that on the first day, very first day I was like, this is different.
They also have a residential program as well to mention that.
With young babies, infants to young children where the children can stay with them.
(35:53):
Nobody does that.
ah They do it and then
were inpatient, right?
So I think it was like you and maybe one other person who are outpatient.
Yeah, I was like one of two outpatients that were there.
So everybody else was impatient.
And then, you know, you go from one house to the next house and where it's looser and, youknow, you graduate up to different but there's a lot of housing opportunities for them
(36:21):
there.
So I don't know as much about that end of the program.
That's where, you know, when you speak to um some of the
Yeah, that people I've recommended.
We are going to do hopefully one or two episodes with a couple of the doctors ortherapists from AWRC.
(36:42):
uh
And what they'll speak to is so much more than I can say, but this program is completelydifferent and nobody does it.
Nobody follows this model.
And
Why not is...
My question...
It's a new thing.
(37:03):
needs to gather the data to show everybody that it works.
not new.
They've been around for, I don't know how long, but they're not a new program.
They've been around, but nobody does this.
they, you know, they do the medical side of things where you can get your meds and ah theyhave psychiatrists, they offer therapy, they do.
(37:31):
the whole spectrum of things, but they do it in a different way than anybody else is doingit.
um And I believe that is one of the absolute most integral pieces to where I'm at today,at my almost five months.
I feel great.
(37:51):
I look forward to going to my uh groups every week.
I've graduated from the IOP to
their SOP, is a mindfulness group where it's just me and a couple other ladies and thefacilitator, which one is Dr.
Holly, the other is Jojo where we meet twice a week.
(38:14):
We do meditation.
We dig deep into.
Oh yeah.
Everywhere it is.
I know.
episode.
I gotta bring you to my, yeah, I'll talk to you later, but yeah, you gotta do liquidbreath work.
Ryan and Shelby coming up.
Yeah, and we've done we've learned some breath work, but we've done it very minimally, butI know they can go deeper into it.
(38:39):
That's Dr.
Holly.
So she does that kind of stuff.
um But yeah, we it's because it's it's literally like me and four other women in thisgroup.
And because it's so small, you're
You always feel like you're getting one-on-one attention, even in the SOP group, which wasa larger.
(39:03):
You walk in the front doors and people know your name and you get greeted with hugs andit's just the most welcoming place.
They know you.
They, you just feel, I will say this and I can't say this about pretty much anything elsethat I've done, but you, they genuinely love.
(39:26):
the women that they're helping.
They love the children of the women that they're helping.
They are excited to see you succeed.
And most of the staff there are recovering addicts, many of which have actually graduatedtheir program, AWRC's program.
There's a lot of people there that work there that have gone through the whole uhtreatment.
(39:52):
uh
so glad that Judy brought you in.
Judy, right?
was Judy from.
uh
You're a my god, I'm totally blanking because I'm
That amazing woman who suggested this program who graduated.
Julie, was close.
(40:13):
Okay, Julie.
I'm glad that
one.
Yeah, she was she was a graduate from it.
Yeah, that was that phone call where she was like, I don't know what to do with you.
I don't know what to do with you.
And then she's like,
was like the light bulb went off and she was like, uh
Yeah.
And she's like, this is going to be harder for you to do because it's in downtown Phoenix.
(40:36):
And, you know, you'll have to drive the expectations are more as far as attendance andthings like that.
But yeah, it's, it was, I didn't have a car at that time because mom was here.
We eventually got so backtracked.
got Liam out of group home, but that deal was mom had to live here.
(41:01):
and she became the CPC, which is the uh child's physical custody uh guardian.
She was there for like three months?
Yeah, I wasn't allowed to be alone with Liam.
No, and she came back with him a couple times and they up there.
was yeah, I wasn't allowed to be with my own child and that sucks uh Yeah, it'sembarrassing.
(41:27):
It's Something to be ashamed of I didn't tell people this I kind of isolated myself fromeverybody except for eyes because Just couldn't I couldn't do Friends at the time.
I couldn't you know, I couldn't do any that I just was working on me
(41:48):
and working on being the mom that I know I am and could get back to being, but better.
um So yeah, I wasn't allowed to be with Liam the whole time I've been, well, not the wholetime I've been attending this program, but um yeah.
So yeah, but I've been in this program for just over five months and have met some amazingpeople.
(42:18):
Every staff that I have met there, I'm like, my god, they're awesome.
I love and are all different.
They all do different things.
They all help you in different ways.
But it's both pieces and you really need to work on that mental health piece in order tohelp the addiction piece that comes before the addiction.
(42:42):
But that's what is missing and everything else.
Yeah, a lot of rehabs just, they want to give you other drugs to get you off the drugsyou're on.
Yeah
That's a lot of it too.
Absolutely.
um So yeah, I, when I was in rehab, there were girls that were on a, what is that?
(43:04):
There's Suboxone and Methadone.
And one of the girls flat out said, I'm here getting high.
And legally do it.
Yeah, they give you doses.
Ira.
He was on methadone for years.
mouth hanging open, drooling, like, how is that helping someone?
(43:26):
What is that doing?
That's just giving them that high, but in uh legal way.
I mean, she was right.
So, but anyway, I, luckily I didn't have to do any of that because I had, I hadn't donecocaine since God, you know, probably two years before Liam was born.
(43:47):
So I had gotten off of that myself.
I just stopped cold turkey.
I had the crap scared out of me, which made me.
I was actually going to ask about that because we kind of the timeline where you were inthe party scene in Scottsdale with all these more illicit kind of drugs and then it jumped
forward to, you know, the alcohol.
I was going to actually ask how, like what happened in between those things.
(44:10):
Cause it seemed like you were on one road of addiction, but then all of a sudden you wereon another one.
I was going to ask if it was, if it was the getting pregnant that got you off of it, butyou said it was two years before Liam.
Oh, was...
Maybe...
What was your process there?
did you go about actually getting out of the addiction the first time?
So the deeper I got in that scene and the more shady people I was hanging out with thedealers and you know, I had a dealer living in my home.
(44:41):
didn't pay rent.
He paid me a coke.
So things like that.
And the deeper I got, the worse the scene got for me.
And I was I was bounced around.
I, you know, I lost my home.
I uh
live with me for a little while.
with
(45:02):
and motor helps her move into the new place.
Yeah.
I found another place to live and pay.
No, I was in one of the worst neighborhoods you could be.
was known for their gang dealings and all that.
So, um, I was there.
I don't even know how long, um, still doing the thing next thing you knew I was sellingit.
(45:28):
I had half a key in my possession one time and was selling it, uh, or trying to sell it.
I ended up doing most of it and getting in trouble with the guy who gave it to me to sellit.
Yeah, they front you, they front you, which they They give you the drug and then you sellit and then you pay them back.
(45:53):
And yeah, so I got messed up.
Yeah, you finally got out of that.
then
I got out of it and this is how I got out of it.
I was kind of couch hopping.
I had a place to live, but I was hanging out and partying with my friends and, you know,going from the club, you go back and after party and blah, blah, blah.
(46:14):
Well, one of the places I was staying at where one of the dealers lived, I was sleeping ontheir couch almost every single night.
And this one day, that's when
because I got kicked out of the place I was renting in the bad neighborhood.
That one day, I, you know, I ended up moving back into dad's.
(46:37):
The day I was, yes, the day I was moving was the day that house where I was staying gotraided.
It had been under surveillance.
They had undercovers were across the street and one of the townhomes across the streetwatching.
the guy that I was driving around and depositing money for.
(47:01):
That one day I wasn't there.
You just disappeared.
I had disappeared and I had heard what happened.
Everybody got arrested and that was in the house.
Think you
oh And I wasn't there so that scared the shit out of me, excuse my language, but
(47:23):
And you lost your connection.
You your source.
You lost everything.
Well, and I had other sources and I ended up going home with them, but um I was afraid thecops were looking for me.
Nobody knew where dad lived.
Nobody knew his name.
(47:43):
My car had always been parked out front of this house that got raided.
I'm like, they got my license plate number.
They're going to find me.
I'm going to get arrest.
Every time somebody came to the fricking door, I was like, it's going to be the cops.
It's going to be the cops.
And that's what I, how I was living for probably a good month of living at dad's.
I was still partying.
(48:04):
was still, I wasn't even partying at that point.
I was just buying stuff and staying in the bedroom by myself and doing it.
And, um, I don't know if dad knew or not.
He never, he never said anything about.
Yeah, I don't, you know, he was probably too drunk to know the difference, but.
(48:26):
um Yeah, so eventually another friend got not raided but got arrested for dealing who Iwas buying from.
I'm like, okay.
The cards were falling.
This is too many, you're getting lucky.
This is like the cat with nine lives.
(48:47):
My lives are running out.
So I gotta change things up.
And that's when I met Liam's dad and that ended up not being a great situation, but that'sa whole other, I can do a whole thing on blended families now.
We'll bring you back for another episode.
Maybe more about that because.
(49:09):
so you got a Liam blah blah blah.
We're there and then you fell into the drinking addiction at some point later on,obviously because of all of this other stuff that kind of started.
Right.
Sorry, just trying to bring it full circle here.
So.
Yeah, no, I know.
that's my life was crazy.
It's been crazy.
(49:29):
Like the past 20 years have been crazy.
I have done crazy things I have seen and heard I have you name it.
I probably have done it.
um
been some good points though.
mean, like I even think about like when Zane was born and you live down the road from meand you had Liam and she took care of Zane.
(49:51):
I was sober.
Yeah, she was sober and you know, life was good.
I ended up doing daycare for you and had to stay in my house five days a week.
and at UCP and that was like a really really good good time yeah but yeah
I mean, was while I was working at UCP is when I started drinking wine every night, myboxed wine every night.
(50:17):
Yes.
uh
would ever anytime you come up to Flagstaff, she would have her box.
Wait, and I actually I would.
I mean, I like to drink wine too, but man, I saw you throw back a couple times like, damn,how'd she do that?
and I didn't think anything of it honestly didn't even think anything of it at that pointI didn't either oh well we always sit around have one whenever one comes up
(50:40):
It seems such an innocuous thing.
Exactly.
Didn't think anything of it.
It was just what I did.
And it just escalated and progressed over the years.
And then you're not dealing with the stuff, right?
That's causing it.
uh
up because now I have the old stuff, the childhood trauma stuff, the all that stuff.
(51:03):
And now you add Liam to the mix dealing with all that stress, which, that's lot.
Yeah.
And so it just progressed.
And even being, when I met Dave and
He would, every weekend I would come over, he'd have the box of wine waiting for me.
(51:27):
Well, I already had like probably three, four during the week, boxes, the big boxes.
It just, it was like that.
And, but again, I didn't think it was a problem because I was still working.
was doing, doing everything.
Um, but eventually it became a problem and I had, I don't know what it was.
(51:49):
I think it was around the time Liam had his brain surgery.
Then I switched over to hard liquor.
Fireball.
Fireball.
Yeah, that'll do it.
And I actually, be honest with you, Megan, I actually didn't realize you were drinkingthat much.
I didn't know.
I mean, I was up here, right?
Like I wasn't there.
I didn't do it in front of people.
No, I didn't notice it.
(52:09):
And you were like pretty even.
did it.
So.
I it at home.
I kept it, you know, I got good at lying.
I got good at covering myself.
I stopped going to events.
just, takes you out of living life.
(52:31):
Yeah.
You know, it becomes the number one thing.
It's like above all the other things.
And at one point, finally became above Liam.
It became above my relationship with Dave.
It became above me taking care of my pets.
It kept me in a room by myself, never answering the phone.
(52:54):
um It just, it became, that was it.
That's all I wanted to do.
I just wanted to check out, out.
And...
That's when I was failing.
I was failing at everything.
um And it literally took me out of life.
(53:15):
ah I just, wasn't living anymore.
was, know, Dave eventually took the keys to my car and I would walk to the grocery store.
would walk drunk as hell buying big bottles of vodka and putting them in a backpack.
And at one point I like,
(53:38):
Before I started this program, before that, was the last relapse that this stuff washappening.
I was sitting on a bench at the bus stop drinking vodka.
Like it's a hundred something degrees outside, cause you live in Phoenix.
uh
Yeah, I remember being on the phone with Dave and he was like, on the app, he was seeingwhere you were going.
(54:01):
He's like, all right, she's in price.
He's like, I can tell where she is in the store.
He knew exactly that you were going to liquor.
He was like, literally tracking you and telling me like, all right, and here she is now.
I think she's probably sitting on the side of the road right now.
And apparently
that became Dave's life too, which sucks.
Because Dave, just a little thing on Dave, his second wife, she passed away.
(54:28):
She literally drowned in a bathtub being high on pills and alcohol.
She was a major drunk.
yeah.
So to put Dave through that again and to become that person he loved,
Um, and him having to watch that all over again, it became his life tracking where I wastaking care of Liam when I was cast.
(54:55):
Yeah.
don't know this guy, but he sounds like a saint.
He, yeah, yeah, he is everything.
So everything good.
um
So you're, you're, I'm just checking time here, Megan.
And I know that you need to pick up Liam.
So, yeah, yeah.
(55:16):
She has pick up Liam.
Can I ask one more question?
Yeah, let's just start to like wrap things up because I want to go ahead.
We're gonna celebrate something to you.
talked about how the program you're now that's actually working on like all the other onesyou tried is different in their approach.
But it was your approach different going in.
Did you actually want to go in this time or your mentality different?
(55:39):
This last relapse, I made all the phone calls.
I actually asked for help.
I called everybody on my professional team and I said, I have to stop.
I need help, which I'd never done before.
That's what makes a difference too.
When you want it, um being forced into it takes that out of it.
(56:04):
But when you want it, you have to want it to succeed.
And this is going to be something I live with forever.
You know, it's always something I'm going to have to be mindful of.
And I've learned a lot, a lot of coping skills I'm actually using now.
Communication just, it's changed so many aspects of my life and being my self-awareness ishuge.
(56:32):
Just noticing what I'm feeling and what I need to do, when to ask for help and
Um, yeah, I haven't been triggered.
I haven't had a single episode since I started this program where I felt like, Oh man, Ireally wish I could have a drink.
Nothing.
(56:52):
And that may come.
I have to be mindful of that.
You know, holidays, I have to be mindful of that because I don't want to put a damper oneverybody else's, but I know it's fun for everyone, but you guys are all normies.
That's what we call them.
norming.
Normies, that's the term.
(57:12):
Yeah.
So that's the term we use.
um I have to, know, Dave and I have had to do that, or I like, you know, I don't think Ishould go.
And I don't do that to piss anybody off or make anyone sad.
I'm doing that to protect myself.
um So if that ever happens, that's why.
(57:35):
And I'll try to communicate that I'll try to say that I don't think it's a good idea.
So um that's
to have that kind of self awareness and like self control, right?
What a huge step.
mean, that's massively different than
That's how you overcome addiction, right there.
Yeah.
Going to the grocery store became a thing.
I couldn't shop by myself because just seeing the bottles and grocery stores are awfulbecause it's everywhere in the store.
(58:04):
holidays.
my God.
It's like, you know, everywhere.
So that was something I had to do.
gosh.
uh
Hyper awareness.
I won't drop the name of the place, but the grocery store I go to, uh, to grab lunch alot.
go to the self checkout and in the, as you stand in line at the self checkout, there'sthis big turnstile little shooters of booze, every kind of booze that comes in a shooter.
(58:30):
mean, there's thousands of little shooters of booze just on this little turnstile registerfor the kids.
now booze there.
don't shop where you shop.
It's safe way.
Yeah, all the big girls, fries, basses, all
it's the grocery store.
It's not a ghetto place.
(58:52):
It is a primary shopping spot for everyone in Flagstaff.
I'm pretty sure fries is doing it now too.
right by the checkout.
Like they're pushing multiple store now.
And I really look at that and I'm like, are you like, they're trying to get people tospontaneously buy booze that they weren't planning on buying.
(59:12):
I did.
It's worse than the candy bar.
did read something recently.
I might have to share this article in the, the, in the show notes, Jeremy, that thepercentage of people out drinking alcohol though, these days is actually dropped pretty
significantly, which is great.
they don't.
It's not as important.
It's something like, I don't even want to call the stats out, but anyway, we'll put it inthere because I think that's like a good reference to show that desire is going down.
(59:38):
Now you're going to obviously you're, you're battling, you're, you're in recovery, right?
Like
person in recovery.
That's what we say.
That's for life.
It's like a big old scar on your brain.
Yeah.
It's, know, uh big scar on your face.
People know you, were injured.
You can't see this scar, but it's a scar that you got to carry around.
(59:59):
Yeah.
Well, and addiction is referred to as a disease and it's treated as such.
It's something you have forever.
um So, but it's different, but it's the same.
So it's just something I always have to be aware of.
I always have to protect myself.
um And that's, you know, I've had times where I've told Dave, like for the longest time,he didn't bring anything in the house.
(01:00:25):
We have a toolbox.
with a lock on it.
So if he does have anything, I'm okay with him having a drink, whatever, that's fine.
But he has to keep the bottles locked up so I don't see them.
And that's it, one box.
We don't have the bar anymore, which we used to have.
We don't have any of them.
(01:00:45):
So um our household has had to change.
Everybody's had to adapt.
So yeah, to protect me and because he loves me.
Liam tells me he's proud of me all the time.
Mom, you're beautiful.
I'm so proud of you.
He just says it on his own.
that's because he was
(01:01:06):
That's awesome.
about his feeling over that.
Yeah, he really was.
was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Everyone's happy.
We're all very proud of you, Megan.
You need the truth to heal, man.
Yeah.
But you need the truth to heal.
And again, I'm just checking time because I don't want you to be late.
But it's fine.
(01:01:26):
want to I want to celebrate you texted me before we got on.
And Megan has some really great news to share.
And I've got I have celebratory things.
I'm ready.
So just this morning, uh, got, uh, an email from my attorney saying my case was dismissed.
(01:01:47):
So everything is closed out DCS.
Uh, I guess testing.
Yes.
All that it's all that I have full legal guardianship of Liam again.
Um, so that's of today as of today.
yes, it was, that was big.
(01:02:08):
That's a big deal.
I to do the happy dance.
dance.
So, cow up.
I don't hear it ringing.
you don't hear that?
No!
Zoom might be filtering it out.
uh
maybe.
oh That's weird.
There we go.
(01:02:31):
That was huge with her pom poms.
No, this is amazing.
uh I'm so proud of you, Megan.
And it's been, have watched you.
I have been very close to this uh from the beginning and, and seen everything that she'sgone through and it's been hard.
There's been some times where I thought, my God, this is, you know, so to see, to see youfive months out.
(01:02:57):
in this program, which has been amazing for you.
Like we're just, you know, I think everyone is just, we're grateful.
That's it.
Didn't.
That way.
I lifted that from, yeah, it was hard.
That's one of the biggest things to know how much I hurt everybody in this, but I alsohave to be able to not dwell on that.
(01:03:21):
have to, what makes, what fixes it is my success in sobriety.
So yeah.
It's like a whole new world and chapter and you so
And I'll put links to all these places we were talking about, NURC and things like that.
I'll put all that in the show notes for anyone who is interested.
(01:03:43):
plan is to bring hopefully Dr.
Holly, maybe Jojo on from, from AWRC.
And then maybe we can do a round table and bring you all back together, which would bereally cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that might be.
two hour episode.
uh
It could happen.
Two parter.
Have we done a two parter?
we did with Latham Thomas.
That's our first one.
(01:04:05):
Yeah.
So anyway, um do you want to leave anyone who's hearing this with any advice or words ofwisdom before we close out here?
Sure.
Don't be ashamed.
If you know you're having this problem, whether it's alcohol, drugs, whatever, talk tosomebody.
(01:04:28):
There's so many people, there's so many agencies out there that are there to help you.
And it's taking that first step is the hardest step.
It's the absolute hardest step.
But if you want it,
You can have this.
You can have sobriety, and you can get back to living, because you're not living if that'swhat you're doing.
(01:04:56):
They call it the pink cloud in AA.
There's the pink cloud.
And I'm in the pink cloud, fluffing it up and doing all that.
So you can have this, and you'll feel wonderful.
because everybody will look at you and see you.
You're the toughest person.
(01:05:17):
Nobody can do this for you.
You have to do it for yourself.
So that's, that's probably the thing.
and find something like a WRC, right?
Because it was kind of the
And there are there's great programs out there.
There's a lot and you know, go to an AA group.
(01:05:39):
You can walk in, you know, you're going to be greeted with love.
And you still attend to A-Meetings, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
So, um, not as much, but I get more from this program right now, but I think when I'mdone, then I'll, I'll make it a point to attend even more meetings.
(01:06:02):
So yeah, I do.
There's virtual meetings.
If you didn't know that there's virtual meetings, you don't have to go in person.
can just get on, you search, AA in my area.
And there's a.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
I can.
I'll send you the information for local.
(01:06:24):
But yeah, there's all kinds of there's so much out there that's there to help.
And there's no shame.
You will not be judged for this.
Just take that first step.
All right, Megan, thanks for coming on and being honest and vulnerable.
(01:06:46):
This is not easy to do.
oh
done.
Jared publicly in any public forum.
So this is a big deal.
And a lot of people want to listen to it.
They're like so excited.
I think there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna appreciate this because like Isaid at the beginning, if it's not you, you know somebody, you know, someone's per, you
(01:07:09):
know, that are going through this, whether five months in to their sobriety or 20 years,you know?
So anyway, thank you.
you're welcome.
Thank you both for having me.
It's been a it's been healing.
(01:07:29):
And hopefully it people out there as well.
Yeah.
Yes, absolutely.
And there you go, our conversation with Megan Marshall about addiction and recovery.
I guess is pretty much the whole point of the thing, but what's the main takeaways here,Heather?
(01:07:52):
Um, well, obviously interviewing my own sister might be a little awkward anduncomfortable, especially based on where some of her root issues come from.
part of that story.
I mean, it wasn't my fault.
Yeah.
But you know, I mean, I knew what she was going to say, so I wasn't surprised by it.
(01:08:13):
And, and I mean, does it still feel kind of crappy to hear her say it loud?
Yeah, it totally does.
Like that definitely affects me.
And, you know, having been pretty close with my sister or most of most of our livesanyway, um know, aside from those couple years in, um I don't know, middle high school
where we hated each other.
um
(01:08:34):
I mean, teenagers are crazy by definition.
the chemistry in your brain when you're that age does not allow you to be sane.
Yeah, but- It's just something we all have to go through.
I look at my boys now.
I mean, they have almost five years apart, five years between them, but like, they aren'tlike, I love hanging out with you brother.
Like there's definitely not, keep telling them when they're older, they're going todefinitely want to hang out more.
(01:08:58):
But, um, but yeah, like despite, you know, those ups and downs, nothing on normalabnormal.
Um, but yeah, you know, having sat in the passenger seat or the vac seat in Megan's lifeand watching her go through a lot of this stuff.
being the one who shows up and helps her being the one who bails, bails her out a lot ofthe time.
(01:09:19):
Um, you know, it's been really hard for me, uh, as her sister to watch her go through thatand feeling pretty helpless.
Um, so, you know, that's a little unusual, but I'm also like here to share on, know, andI've always.
I'm sure there's that element where you have the duality of, uh, you're, get annoyed thatyou have to help her so much, but wish there was a way you could help her more all at the
(01:09:41):
same time.
That's the sort of thing that family does.
Yeah.
That's what, you know, it's just a swirl of emotion that you can't control at some points.
which for her, going through all of this, you know, and seeing all the things that didn'thelp, right?
And for so long and just hoping the next thing would help, you know, and then, and itdidn't, and she recognized that.
(01:10:03):
then, finding Arizona Women's Recovery Center has been a game changer for her.
So,
and finding the desire within herself to really actually want to get sober.
Right, right.
And not find the band aid and, you know, to fix it and really, really kind of dig into it.
You can't fix yourself until you want to be fixed.
(01:10:23):
Right.
I mean, that's a universal rule with people.
Like no matter how much other people are trying to help you and you know, no matter whatsteps you're taking, if you don't really believe in it and you're not really wanting to
solve the problem, it's not going to get solved.
Yeah.
That's the biggest piece of the puzzle, right?
So it's been a huge relief for me and my family to see her go through this finally to findsomething.
(01:10:46):
And it's been an even bigger relief to see her just a completely different person.
And just the acknowledging, like she wouldn't talk about it for a long, know, she justdidn't talk about it.
Like it didn't exist.
And for her to be acknowledging it, talking about it so openly, I mean, coming on theshow, like that's huge.
And to do that with me, like.
Yeah, it's like facing your monsters.
(01:11:07):
Yeah.
Facing your own demons.
But I mean, she's, you know, coming up on six months, actually, I think.
uh
By the time this comes out, it probably will be six months.
No, it'll be a few days later, but really close.
Yep.
So this show, this episode is going to publish just a few days before her six month markof being sober.
And so that's really exciting.
(01:11:28):
we'll, know, bells and whistles and the, all the things.
Little inspiration for everyone else trying to do the same thing out there.
Yeah, so if she can do it, you can do it.
So, you know, just got to find the right program and you got to want it.
You gotta really, really want it.
That's how I quit smoking cigarettes.
It's like that with any addiction.
(01:11:49):
I smoked cigarettes for 30 years.
I tried quitting half a dozen times, but it was only once I really, really wanted, likethose other times I was like, yeah, I want to quit, I didn't, like, I didn't have the,
like the really deep desire to really not want to do it anymore.
I finally hit that point where it's like, I can't like,
I'm gonna die if I don't stop doing this.
(01:12:10):
Like I could feel the COPD setting in.
I got out just in time and now I feel so much better.
My lungs feel better.
And once you do it, you go, man, I wish I could have done that earlier.
I definitely have never met anyone that has stopped drinking and has been sober and says,gosh, I wish I had never stopped doing that.
Exactly.
(01:12:30):
Like they're thrilled and
the best thing you ever did.
Once you do it, it's the best thing you ever
Mostly regretful that they hadn't done it sooner.
Right.
Right.
That's the only regret is I wish I would have quit sooner.
Yeah, so anyway, that's what I got.
If you want to, if you like what you're hearing, you want to keep up with us here on thehealthcare uprising, we're to have more and more of these personal stories, I believe, as
(01:12:52):
we move forward.
At least that's the plan.
So if you, if you like this kind of episode, make sure you hit that auto download buttonor ring the bell or whatever it is on the platform you're on so that you can catch all the
episodes as they come out.
We are on YouTube.
We are on all the major listening platforms.
We've got a Patreon, patreon.com slash healthcare uprising.
If you want to throw us a little bit of monetary support.
(01:13:13):
ah Patreon YouTube is full of video so can see us, you can watch us instead of just listento us if you prefer.
I think that's all for me, what about for you Heather?
Well, you can find us online at healthcare uprising.com, which is basically our pod beingwebsite.
So um more to come on that.
know I say that at the end of every single show.
(01:13:34):
I'm going to work on.
We finally are making real major plans for a real website, so stand by.
It's coming.
I promise.
so you can't go online, but mostly follow us on social media, like us, follow whateverthe, the thing you have to do is because we are on LinkedIn, we are on Instagram, Facebook
and blue sky.
(01:13:54):
So we post out there.
Um, anytime we have episodes that drop, we'd like to reshare stories.
We like to share relevant stories around topics that we cover.
So it's a great place to stay in the know as well.
Um, on anything healthcare related.
Um, and if you have a story, if you're a company who focuses on supporting and deliveringservices and healthcare space to consumers, because side note, are starting to make a bit
(01:14:22):
of a very intentful shift to focus show, um, completely on consumer focused products,programs, services, subscriptions, all the things that help all of us real people out on
the street.
give us a shout at healthcare uprising at gmail.com.
We'd love to bring you on the show and talk about what you're doing or whatever your storyis.
So with that, I think that's all I got Jeremy.
(01:14:46):
So keep looking for the good in the world.
Sometimes it's where you least expect it.
(01:15:46):
This has been a Shut Up production.
Shut up!
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