April 12, 2024 • 19 mins
In this invigorating episode, we delve deep into the insights on parenthood from esteemed medical professional, Dr. Terry Lim. Resoundingly advocating for the necessity of physical and emotional presence in child-rearing, Dr. Lim brings forth an intriguing viewpoint on the primal needs of the human brain. In this context, he emphasizes on the significance of the natural environment, healthy nutrition, adequate rest, and most importantly, genuine social interaction, irrespective of technological advancements.
Owner and leading operator of the Mindsight Clinic, Dr. Lim shares his delightful journey as a father to three girls, their unique growth journeys, his challenges, and the joy he derives from seeing their distinct personalities blossom. His parenting philosophy rings clear in two words – Be Present. He emphasizes the importance of being available, attentive, and engrossed in the moment, as a strategy for successful parenting.
Tackling the pressing concern of screen addiction among children, Dr. Lim shares his thoughts.
This episode delivers invaluable guidance for parents grappling with the distractions of present times. It encourages embracing the challenges, forming substantial bonds with children, and fostering their growth. Dr. Lim elaborates on the importance of a growth mindset, mindful parenting, and self-awareness. Throughout the episode, he underscores the significance of human psychology, trauma, and healthy growth aspects generally sidelined in psychiatry training.
Concluding the talk with a light-hearted dad joke, Dr. Lim's motivating philosophy that age is not an obstacle in the path of learning, growth, and change, reaffirms that parenting, although often difficult, is an immensely rewarding journey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
But interestingly, the human brain hasn't changed much in the tens of thousands
of years where we've been on Earth.
We all need the same thing to develop as human beings. We need,
you know, we need the natural Earth.
We need good food and we need sleep and we need social connection.
And social connection doesn't mean virtual connection. It means real in-person
(00:23):
social connection. function.
So I think the healthiest thing, the healthiest mindset that we can have as
parents is to be aggressive with our kids. What does that mean?
Hello, healthy dads. Welcome to another healthy dad conversation.
Today, we are just absolutely stoked to have friend of the channel, Dr.
(00:44):
Terry Lim back, this time to talk about being a dad and medicine.
We are recording here in Kiriwi on the traditional lands of the Dharawal people.
I pay my respect to elders past, present and emerging.
Terry, welcome back to the channel. Chris, it's good to be back and really happy
to be talking about this topic, which is really close to my heart as a dad and a doctor myself.
(01:05):
So you're obviously still very busy there over there at the Mindsight Clinic.
You're the owner and chief operator and you've been doing some very exciting
stuff in mental health, in the private field and in GP integration into psychiatry
care. But today we are talking about about dadding.
So I just wanted to grab your dad specs first.
Can you tell me how many kids you have? How old are they?
(01:27):
Yeah, thanks, Chris. I've got to say being a dad is probably my second job.
It's just as busy as running a practice, probably harder.
In a practice, you've got more control, I think.
Anyway, my kids are, I've got three girls. They're 16, 14, and five.
So yeah, Yeah, a bit of a gap between the second and third one.
(01:48):
Okay, so I'm a new dad since we chatted last. We were just having a chat about that.
I also have a lovely young daughter, and I'm learning to be a dad,
and I'm aiming to be a good enough dad.
Let's dig into dadding. Tell me what you enjoy most about being a dad.
Well, Chris, I just love the fact that I've got three girls,
(02:08):
so I've got to start off with saying I never really thought I'd have this much
fun being the father of daughters.
I was an only child, actually, so I didn't have any siblings.
So growing up with girls, it was certainly not an experience that I had growing up.
And I've got to say I didn't think I'd have much of an idea raising girls,
but it's actually been mostly pretty fun. You know, I love the way that they
(02:34):
can talk about all sorts of things.
I've got to sometimes look up my urban dictionary to find out what various words
mean that they raise, like esche or that kind of thing.
But, yeah, and they tease me a lot about being a Gen Xer.
That's so last century.
But, yeah, I love the banter. I love seeing them grow. grow.
(02:55):
I love seeing them develop new skills and abilities.
And they're five-year-olds in that really rapid phase of growth at the moment
where she's learning to read and count.
And it's also really interesting just comparing their personalities.
I love hanging out with them. I love taking them to experience new things.
Yeah, I just really love being a dad.
(03:16):
That's great to hear. And I think that's one of the things as dad with daughters,
as they initially like okay how do i connect with
my daughter and for me at the three-month-old daughter you know you
know i would i can't take her to the footy anyway and she may live
footy anyway whether or not she supports the roosters
manly or another team that's that's all up in the air and i would say that that's
(03:37):
a bit of an unfair assessment of you to say that you're you know not understanding
the modern things because you do have a bit of an entrepreneurial mindset and
we'll probably come back to that later if you had to put your dad philosophy
in one sentence i know I know this is asking a lot, but if you need to sit with it for a sec, go for it.
If you had to put your dad philosophy in one sentence, what would it be?
(03:58):
In one sentence, or I can actually boil it down to two words, actually, Chris.
Okay. As I was saying to you earlier, I haven't actually prepared anything.
And really, when you were talking about dad philosophy, two words came to my
mind, and that's be present. Be present.
Everything in our world, our modern world, conspires against us being present
(04:22):
with our kids and our families, our spouses.
More than in a more than ever before we're living
in an environment where that the the competition for
attention has never been higher i mean
the old days as you may remember you're probably a bit younger than me but you
know there was pretty much four channels on the telly three of them probably
didn't really work very well because the arrow was rubbish and so you were left
(04:45):
with one one channel and and we thought oh this is rubbish i'm gonna play outside
and that was it and you You play with your mates. No one had had a phone.
These days, it's YouTube, it's Netflix, it's everything.
And then if they're not watching it on the TV, it's mobile devices.
So, you know, it's a different world we're living in.
But interestingly, the human brain hasn't changed much in the tens of thousands
(05:09):
of years where we've been on Earth.
We all need the same thing to develop as human beings. We need,
you know, we need the natural earth, we need good food and we need sleep and
we need social connection.
And social connection doesn't mean virtual social connection,
it means real in-person social connection.
And so I think the healthiest thing, the healthiest mindset that we can have
(05:32):
as parents is to be present with our kids.
And what does that mean? It means, I mean, it's only two words,
Chris, but it means so much.
B, you know, the word B is to exist.
Often we don't exist in the present. You know, we're often existing through
the lives of other people on social media.
We're existing in the future, thinking about the things that we've got to do tomorrow or,
(05:55):
you know, the good things that are coming up, the bad things
that we've got to fix and we're often living in the past as well it
could be the past of just yesterday what i
did right wrong or it could be the past that comes back to us you know from
many many years ago and then we can also so so being present and being alive
(06:16):
in the moment you know is is that
first step toward being present and then present is about the here and now,
and about giving your children your undivided attention.
Even if they're on the phone, I've actually noticed something interesting about
my teenagers is that when I sit next to them, say, at the dinner table or something,
(06:37):
and they're on their phones,
the temptation is to say, hey, guys, get off your phones and, you know.
Let's eat dinner or let's talk or something.
Usually when I say that, the last thing they want to do is get off their phones.
Or what I've actually discovered, I've discovered a little trick, right?
If I sit next to them and I don't have my phone and I just sit there and I kind
(06:59):
of just look at them, after a while, they'll kind of turn over,
and they'll notice that I'm there and then usually they'll put their phone down,
and they'll go, hey, Dad, what do you think about this? What do you think about that?
And it actually works for the extrovert, and it works for my introvert as well.
(07:21):
The five-year-old hasn't quite got there because she's more interested in watching,
you know, Bluey or something on the iPad.
But it's really interesting with my teens, actually. That little trick has been really helpful for me.
I like that. And I think it comes back to the idea of building that rapport
with your kids. Because, you know, I'm not an expert.
(07:42):
I'm just going off what I listen to on podcasts. us but the rapport
with your kids is supposedly built up every day
it's not a big sudden action it's every day being present
with them yeah so that when something big does happen when they're
worried about something like bullying or drugs they have
that rapport and that connection they know they can talk to you that's right
so i think that that's so important to be present and and you're right like
(08:04):
i i'm talking to someone later in the week about internet internet gaming disorder
or various screen addiction problems and we've never had more issues with that you know the,
i just i do worry for my
kids in the future and how they will be able to fight against the programming
(08:26):
and the multi-million dollar multi-billion dollar industry that is designed
to keep them hooked on their phones or to keep them engaged in gaming or some
other disorder And that's from someone who, you know, was a gamer,
you know, I played offline gaming and a few other things perhaps showing my age as well.
But it is an area of concern. And certainly I think in medicine,
(08:47):
there are a few areas of interest in all these gaming disorders and screen disorders.
I'll jump ahead for a sec. If you had to tell me something that you learned
either while you were training or while you were working as a doctor about how
to navigate the healthcare system for you, your family,
(09:07):
is there anything you identified that because you were a doctor,
it made it easier to be a dad or was there just nothing that really prepared you?
Yeah, that's a great question, Chris. When I first signed up for psychiatry training,
my wife was pregnant with our first and actually
in my first week as a registrar she gave
birth so I had to apply for paternity leave
(09:29):
virtually on week two of my first
rotation as a registrar and I remember I
remember talking to some other psychiatrists
colleagues and consultants at the time and this is
after about maybe six months of having a baby and juggling
work and everything and and us you know in
psychiatry you start reading about healthy human development and
(09:51):
all the things that go wrong you sort of
see a lot of people with with you know trauma and
and difficulties early development landing the ed and you sort of build up this
kind of worst case scenario and i said oh look you know i've just just been
sort of you know anxious raising a kid that's going to be healthy and and i
think the best advice i i got actually and and it's It actually alludes to what
(10:13):
you actually said right at the start of the interview when you talked about
your goal of being a good enough dad.
You know, most of them said to me, you know, Terry, if you can be a good enough
dad, you don't have to worry.
If you can provide a good enough environment, you don't have to worry.
And that took a lot of pressure off. And, you know, I think that there's only
(10:34):
so much that we can do as parents.
What have I learned in medicine? I guess that's the biggest thing I tell my
patients is that we don't aim for perfection, is that we aim to be good enough.
And good enough can mean lots of things, but good enough doesn't mean that we
stop developing and growing.
I'm really a big advocate of the growth mindset. The growth mindset believes
(10:57):
that everybody can change and grow unless they decide not to.
So if you have if you if you
have a choice or if you decide that you
want to grow then you will and even the
concept of mindful parenting you know that's a pretty new concept actually you
know it's it's it's developed because of the environment Bolivian you know parents
(11:20):
were by definition mindful because they didn't have to worry about social media
and games and stuff but but these These days we have to be conscious of that.
So, you know, I've got a lot out of the psychology world, you know,
and so I think it's a big failing in psychiatry training that we don't get enough
training in psychology, in human psychology.
(11:40):
I mean, the training program would be about 10 years if we added everything
we need to know, but I think there needs to be a bit more in there about human
psychology, understanding healthy development, the role of trauma in people's lives.
So the thing I love about the understanding of human development is the importance
(12:01):
of attachment, you know, the importance of how a child attaches to their mum
and dad on their various earliest ages.
So this is the time, Chris, where, as I said, if you can be present,
they're the building blocks of a great future parent-child relationship.
And no matter what happens, you know, your child will always remember that and
always remember you taking her to the footy, even at three months.
(12:25):
So that actually answers my next question quite nicely as well,
which was did you get paternity leave?
Because it's a hot topic in GP land at the moment is paid parental leave.
And it sounds like you were able to get some paternity leave,
buddy. I got a week. I got one week. Oh, you got a week. Okay.
A week. That was, that's all.
I think I could have gotten a little bit more, but because I just,
(12:47):
see what happened, I actually dropped out of New South Wales Health for a while
to locum, do a few things, and I discovered psychiatry through locuming.
And so when I signed up for the program, I didn't have much leave actually up
my sleeve because I'd sort of, you know, resigned from New South Wales Health.
So, yeah, it's unfortunately only had one week. So that was pretty challenging.
And unfortunately, we had some family help and stuff at the time.
(13:12):
So, yeah, it was good. But, yeah, it was certainly very challenging managing overtime.
In those days, we were either on site overnight or being called back.
So I'd be called back all night, you know, to drive from where I was living
out to Mount Druid and all sorts of places.
So, yeah, it was a pretty full-on experience.
I'm glad I was younger then. That was about 16, 17 years ago,
(13:35):
so I'm glad I did it then, but not now.
Paternity leave is so important. I mean, yeah, it's great that mothers get leave,
but fathers are just as important to a child's development as a mother.
How do you stay healthy as a dad? You know, obviously, it's mental, it's physical.
(13:56):
There's an overlap between the two. But do you have any tips or tricks for dads
out there how to keep healthy?
Yeah, that's a great question. So when I think about health,
I think about this sort of health as being a global concept.
You know, it's not just physical health. It's also emotional health,
mental health, spiritual health.
So I think it's about being aware of yourself to start with.
(14:20):
And again, it's that idea of being present, but not just being present with
your children, but being present with yourself, recognising when you're starting
to feel burnt out or resentful or tired or you're losing motivation.
Sometimes when I lack that compassion for my patients, I kind of recognise that
and, you know, they sort of maybe start to annoy me or I start to,
(14:42):
you know, switch off halfway through a conversation, something like that.
But there's a little warning signs for me that I need to just evaluate where I'm at.
So I think the first thing is to be able to come up with a system or the ability
to be aware of yourself, your physical state, your emotional state, your mental state.
Because if you can't be aware of yourself, you won't know how to help yourself,
(15:03):
if that makes sense. And everybody's different.
So, you know, as men in particular, we're not often trained or taught how to
express our emotions and how to admit when we need help.
It's a big thing in masculinity.
I really love the concept of vulnerable leadership or vulnerable masculinity,
where, you know, by being vulnerable, you can lead and be a more effective person.
(15:28):
So I think if men in particular, if people have difficulty being aware of that,
it's great to have a psychologist, great GP, a good friend, just to check in
with once in a while and say, hey, you know, this has been going on and what do you reckon?
So that's really the first step. And I think most people, if they can get that,
they'll be able to kind of work out something.
(15:48):
I guess the second thing is just remembering all the things that primates,
the primate brain needs to flourish, right?
We need sunlight, we need good food, we need good sleep, we need regular physical
activity and we need good social connections.
Like it's not rocket science, but in this day and age, even the most basic things
seem to love rocket science. So I tell people you need eight hours of sleep.
(16:12):
Unfortunately, it's a biological reality and they go, you're kidding me.
I said, well, it's not my job to tell you what to do, but it's my job to tell
you how your brain works.
Your brain's not going to work very well if you don't get a decent amount of sleep, full stop.
So I would just say it's just really basic. You don't need to run marathons.
You don't need to cycle 300 kilometers a week.
(16:33):
Just the basics. Move your body, get outside, eat well, have some good social
connections to start with.
I think that's a good foundation. and I like I
have noticed the days where I have less sleep or I don't
get 10-15 minute hit workout in I have
found that taking the baby for a pram walk or early in
the morning getting that exercise makes a world of difference to my
(16:56):
day and you're right identifying those signs of burnout you know the reduction
in empathy the you know everyone's sign is different but having a plan in place
so you know those signs you can recognize when your tank needs topping up very
important I think I think one of the questions I've been asking to people,
and this is getting towards the end of the interview, is do you have a really good dad joke?
(17:19):
And if you don't, we're happy for you to come back to us with a prepared one later.
But do you have a very good dad joke that you'd like to share with the audience?
Chris, that's the one I was actually putting in my diary to prepare for.
Unfortunately, I don't. But, you know, there is...
You know, there's an old chestnut when, you know, someone says,
I'm tired or I'm hungry, and you go, hi, hungry, I'm Terry, and they'll be groaned.
(17:47):
But no, I'm, yeah.
Actually, that's interesting. I'll come back to you on a good dad joke.
Because you can send me a dad joke, and I'll post it after the episode.
But there's the idea of, you know, I don't know if you can do any Tony Robbins
stuff, but the idea of saying, I am hungry versus I feel hungry.
That's interesting. The dad joke actually does cut that off at that thought
(18:08):
process. I never really considered that angle.
It does. Although acknowledging hungry is probably not a bad thing.
No, no, not at all. Yeah. So, look, we'll have to wrap up soon.
We've got clinic, both of us.
Is there anything else you wanted to say to our audience? Obviously,
you can tell us a little bit about the Mindsight Clinic and what you're doing
(18:28):
there. That would be a good topic for people to hear about.
But is there anything else you wanted to share with the dads or the patients out there?
Chris, I would say to all the dads out there that, you know,
you have the potential to really make a huge impact in the lives of your kids.
If you can invest in your own health and wellbeing, you'll be a better dad for it.
(18:51):
Take real joy in your kids. They can be challenging. They can,
you know, poke all your buttons.
At the end of the day, though, they're your little people. and if you can start
early and it's never too late to be a better dad.
I'd also encourage people to look up the concept of a growth mindset.
(19:13):
It doesn't matter if you've got adult children, young children.
I believe that they can grow and that we as dads can grow and if you take some
time to invest in yourself, it's never too old, not too late to teach an old dog new tricks.
I like that, Terry. Well, that has been a lovely healthy dad convo. Thank you for sharing.
(19:33):
It's not easy sometimes as a medical dad to talk about these things,
but I'm glad everyone is here having conversations.
Music.
I'll let you get back to clinic. You have a great day. Cheers, Chris.
Terry did come back to us with a dad joke. It goes as follows.
I have an inferiority complex, but it's not a very good one.
But interestingly, the human brain hasn't changed much in the tens of thousands
of years where we've been on Earth.
We all need the same thing to develop as human beings. We need,
you know, we need the natural Earth.
We need good food and we need sleep and we need social connection.
And social connection doesn't mean virtual connection. It means real in-person
(00:23):
social connection. function.
So I think the healthiest thing, the healthiest mindset that we can have as
parents is to be aggressive with our kids. What does that mean?
Hello, healthy dads. Welcome to another healthy dad conversation.
Today, we are just absolutely stoked to have friend of the channel, Dr.
(00:44):
Terry Lim back, this time to talk about being a dad and medicine.
We are recording here in Kiriwi on the traditional lands of the Dharawal people.
I pay my respect to elders past, present and emerging.
Terry, welcome back to the channel. Chris, it's good to be back and really happy
to be talking about this topic, which is really close to my heart as a dad and a doctor myself.
(01:05):
So you're obviously still very busy there over there at the Mindsight Clinic.
You're the owner and chief operator and you've been doing some very exciting
stuff in mental health, in the private field and in GP integration into psychiatry
care. But today we are talking about about dadding.
So I just wanted to grab your dad specs first.
Can you tell me how many kids you have? How old are they?
(01:27):
Yeah, thanks, Chris. I've got to say being a dad is probably my second job.
It's just as busy as running a practice, probably harder.
In a practice, you've got more control, I think.
Anyway, my kids are, I've got three girls. They're 16, 14, and five.
So yeah, Yeah, a bit of a gap between the second and third one.
(01:48):
Okay, so I'm a new dad since we chatted last. We were just having a chat about that.
I also have a lovely young daughter, and I'm learning to be a dad,
and I'm aiming to be a good enough dad.
Let's dig into dadding. Tell me what you enjoy most about being a dad.
Well, Chris, I just love the fact that I've got three girls,
(02:08):
so I've got to start off with saying I never really thought I'd have this much
fun being the father of daughters.
I was an only child, actually, so I didn't have any siblings.
So growing up with girls, it was certainly not an experience that I had growing up.
And I've got to say I didn't think I'd have much of an idea raising girls,
but it's actually been mostly pretty fun. You know, I love the way that they
(02:34):
can talk about all sorts of things.
I've got to sometimes look up my urban dictionary to find out what various words
mean that they raise, like esche or that kind of thing.
But, yeah, and they tease me a lot about being a Gen Xer.
That's so last century.
But, yeah, I love the banter. I love seeing them grow. grow.
(02:55):
I love seeing them develop new skills and abilities.
And they're five-year-olds in that really rapid phase of growth at the moment
where she's learning to read and count.
And it's also really interesting just comparing their personalities.
I love hanging out with them. I love taking them to experience new things.
Yeah, I just really love being a dad.
(03:16):
That's great to hear. And I think that's one of the things as dad with daughters,
as they initially like okay how do i connect with
my daughter and for me at the three-month-old daughter you know you
know i would i can't take her to the footy anyway and she may live
footy anyway whether or not she supports the roosters
manly or another team that's that's all up in the air and i would say that that's
(03:37):
a bit of an unfair assessment of you to say that you're you know not understanding
the modern things because you do have a bit of an entrepreneurial mindset and
we'll probably come back to that later if you had to put your dad philosophy
in one sentence i know I know this is asking a lot, but if you need to sit with it for a sec, go for it.
If you had to put your dad philosophy in one sentence, what would it be?
(03:58):
In one sentence, or I can actually boil it down to two words, actually, Chris.
Okay. As I was saying to you earlier, I haven't actually prepared anything.
And really, when you were talking about dad philosophy, two words came to my
mind, and that's be present. Be present.
Everything in our world, our modern world, conspires against us being present
(04:22):
with our kids and our families, our spouses.
More than in a more than ever before we're living
in an environment where that the the competition for
attention has never been higher i mean
the old days as you may remember you're probably a bit younger than me but you
know there was pretty much four channels on the telly three of them probably
didn't really work very well because the arrow was rubbish and so you were left
(04:45):
with one one channel and and we thought oh this is rubbish i'm gonna play outside
and that was it and you You play with your mates. No one had had a phone.
These days, it's YouTube, it's Netflix, it's everything.
And then if they're not watching it on the TV, it's mobile devices.
So, you know, it's a different world we're living in.
But interestingly, the human brain hasn't changed much in the tens of thousands
(05:09):
of years where we've been on Earth.
We all need the same thing to develop as human beings. We need,
you know, we need the natural earth, we need good food and we need sleep and
we need social connection.
And social connection doesn't mean virtual social connection,
it means real in-person social connection.
And so I think the healthiest thing, the healthiest mindset that we can have
(05:32):
as parents is to be present with our kids.
And what does that mean? It means, I mean, it's only two words,
Chris, but it means so much.
B, you know, the word B is to exist.
Often we don't exist in the present. You know, we're often existing through
the lives of other people on social media.
We're existing in the future, thinking about the things that we've got to do tomorrow or,
(05:55):
you know, the good things that are coming up, the bad things
that we've got to fix and we're often living in the past as well it
could be the past of just yesterday what i
did right wrong or it could be the past that comes back to us you know from
many many years ago and then we can also so so being present and being alive
(06:16):
in the moment you know is is that
first step toward being present and then present is about the here and now,
and about giving your children your undivided attention.
Even if they're on the phone, I've actually noticed something interesting about
my teenagers is that when I sit next to them, say, at the dinner table or something,
(06:37):
and they're on their phones,
the temptation is to say, hey, guys, get off your phones and, you know.
Let's eat dinner or let's talk or something.
Usually when I say that, the last thing they want to do is get off their phones.
Or what I've actually discovered, I've discovered a little trick, right?
If I sit next to them and I don't have my phone and I just sit there and I kind
(06:59):
of just look at them, after a while, they'll kind of turn over,
and they'll notice that I'm there and then usually they'll put their phone down,
and they'll go, hey, Dad, what do you think about this? What do you think about that?
And it actually works for the extrovert, and it works for my introvert as well.
(07:21):
The five-year-old hasn't quite got there because she's more interested in watching,
you know, Bluey or something on the iPad.
But it's really interesting with my teens, actually. That little trick has been really helpful for me.
I like that. And I think it comes back to the idea of building that rapport
with your kids. Because, you know, I'm not an expert.
(07:42):
I'm just going off what I listen to on podcasts. us but the rapport
with your kids is supposedly built up every day
it's not a big sudden action it's every day being present
with them yeah so that when something big does happen when they're
worried about something like bullying or drugs they have
that rapport and that connection they know they can talk to you that's right
so i think that that's so important to be present and and you're right like
(08:04):
i i'm talking to someone later in the week about internet internet gaming disorder
or various screen addiction problems and we've never had more issues with that you know the,
i just i do worry for my
kids in the future and how they will be able to fight against the programming
(08:26):
and the multi-million dollar multi-billion dollar industry that is designed
to keep them hooked on their phones or to keep them engaged in gaming or some
other disorder And that's from someone who, you know, was a gamer,
you know, I played offline gaming and a few other things perhaps showing my age as well.
But it is an area of concern. And certainly I think in medicine,
(08:47):
there are a few areas of interest in all these gaming disorders and screen disorders.
I'll jump ahead for a sec. If you had to tell me something that you learned
either while you were training or while you were working as a doctor about how
to navigate the healthcare system for you, your family,
(09:07):
is there anything you identified that because you were a doctor,
it made it easier to be a dad or was there just nothing that really prepared you?
Yeah, that's a great question, Chris. When I first signed up for psychiatry training,
my wife was pregnant with our first and actually
in my first week as a registrar she gave
birth so I had to apply for paternity leave
(09:29):
virtually on week two of my first
rotation as a registrar and I remember I
remember talking to some other psychiatrists
colleagues and consultants at the time and this is
after about maybe six months of having a baby and juggling
work and everything and and us you know in
psychiatry you start reading about healthy human development and
(09:51):
all the things that go wrong you sort of
see a lot of people with with you know trauma and
and difficulties early development landing the ed and you sort of build up this
kind of worst case scenario and i said oh look you know i've just just been
sort of you know anxious raising a kid that's going to be healthy and and i
think the best advice i i got actually and and it's It actually alludes to what
(10:13):
you actually said right at the start of the interview when you talked about
your goal of being a good enough dad.
You know, most of them said to me, you know, Terry, if you can be a good enough
dad, you don't have to worry.
If you can provide a good enough environment, you don't have to worry.
And that took a lot of pressure off. And, you know, I think that there's only
(10:34):
so much that we can do as parents.
What have I learned in medicine? I guess that's the biggest thing I tell my
patients is that we don't aim for perfection, is that we aim to be good enough.
And good enough can mean lots of things, but good enough doesn't mean that we
stop developing and growing.
I'm really a big advocate of the growth mindset. The growth mindset believes
(10:57):
that everybody can change and grow unless they decide not to.
So if you have if you if you
have a choice or if you decide that you
want to grow then you will and even the
concept of mindful parenting you know that's a pretty new concept actually you
know it's it's it's developed because of the environment Bolivian you know parents
(11:20):
were by definition mindful because they didn't have to worry about social media
and games and stuff but but these These days we have to be conscious of that.
So, you know, I've got a lot out of the psychology world, you know,
and so I think it's a big failing in psychiatry training that we don't get enough
training in psychology, in human psychology.
(11:40):
I mean, the training program would be about 10 years if we added everything
we need to know, but I think there needs to be a bit more in there about human
psychology, understanding healthy development, the role of trauma in people's lives.
So the thing I love about the understanding of human development is the importance
(12:01):
of attachment, you know, the importance of how a child attaches to their mum
and dad on their various earliest ages.
So this is the time, Chris, where, as I said, if you can be present,
they're the building blocks of a great future parent-child relationship.
And no matter what happens, you know, your child will always remember that and
always remember you taking her to the footy, even at three months.
(12:25):
So that actually answers my next question quite nicely as well,
which was did you get paternity leave?
Because it's a hot topic in GP land at the moment is paid parental leave.
And it sounds like you were able to get some paternity leave,
buddy. I got a week. I got one week. Oh, you got a week. Okay.
A week. That was, that's all.
I think I could have gotten a little bit more, but because I just,
(12:47):
see what happened, I actually dropped out of New South Wales Health for a while
to locum, do a few things, and I discovered psychiatry through locuming.
And so when I signed up for the program, I didn't have much leave actually up
my sleeve because I'd sort of, you know, resigned from New South Wales Health.
So, yeah, it's unfortunately only had one week. So that was pretty challenging.
And unfortunately, we had some family help and stuff at the time.
(13:12):
So, yeah, it was good. But, yeah, it was certainly very challenging managing overtime.
In those days, we were either on site overnight or being called back.
So I'd be called back all night, you know, to drive from where I was living
out to Mount Druid and all sorts of places.
So, yeah, it was a pretty full-on experience.
I'm glad I was younger then. That was about 16, 17 years ago,
(13:35):
so I'm glad I did it then, but not now.
Paternity leave is so important. I mean, yeah, it's great that mothers get leave,
but fathers are just as important to a child's development as a mother.
How do you stay healthy as a dad? You know, obviously, it's mental, it's physical.
(13:56):
There's an overlap between the two. But do you have any tips or tricks for dads
out there how to keep healthy?
Yeah, that's a great question. So when I think about health,
I think about this sort of health as being a global concept.
You know, it's not just physical health. It's also emotional health,
mental health, spiritual health.
So I think it's about being aware of yourself to start with.
(14:20):
And again, it's that idea of being present, but not just being present with
your children, but being present with yourself, recognising when you're starting
to feel burnt out or resentful or tired or you're losing motivation.
Sometimes when I lack that compassion for my patients, I kind of recognise that
and, you know, they sort of maybe start to annoy me or I start to,
(14:42):
you know, switch off halfway through a conversation, something like that.
But there's a little warning signs for me that I need to just evaluate where I'm at.
So I think the first thing is to be able to come up with a system or the ability
to be aware of yourself, your physical state, your emotional state, your mental state.
Because if you can't be aware of yourself, you won't know how to help yourself,
(15:03):
if that makes sense. And everybody's different.
So, you know, as men in particular, we're not often trained or taught how to
express our emotions and how to admit when we need help.
It's a big thing in masculinity.
I really love the concept of vulnerable leadership or vulnerable masculinity,
where, you know, by being vulnerable, you can lead and be a more effective person.
(15:28):
So I think if men in particular, if people have difficulty being aware of that,
it's great to have a psychologist, great GP, a good friend, just to check in
with once in a while and say, hey, you know, this has been going on and what do you reckon?
So that's really the first step. And I think most people, if they can get that,
they'll be able to kind of work out something.
(15:48):
I guess the second thing is just remembering all the things that primates,
the primate brain needs to flourish, right?
We need sunlight, we need good food, we need good sleep, we need regular physical
activity and we need good social connections.
Like it's not rocket science, but in this day and age, even the most basic things
seem to love rocket science. So I tell people you need eight hours of sleep.
(16:12):
Unfortunately, it's a biological reality and they go, you're kidding me.
I said, well, it's not my job to tell you what to do, but it's my job to tell
you how your brain works.
Your brain's not going to work very well if you don't get a decent amount of sleep, full stop.
So I would just say it's just really basic. You don't need to run marathons.
You don't need to cycle 300 kilometers a week.
(16:33):
Just the basics. Move your body, get outside, eat well, have some good social
connections to start with.
I think that's a good foundation. and I like I
have noticed the days where I have less sleep or I don't
get 10-15 minute hit workout in I have
found that taking the baby for a pram walk or early in
the morning getting that exercise makes a world of difference to my
(16:56):
day and you're right identifying those signs of burnout you know the reduction
in empathy the you know everyone's sign is different but having a plan in place
so you know those signs you can recognize when your tank needs topping up very
important I think I think one of the questions I've been asking to people,
and this is getting towards the end of the interview, is do you have a really good dad joke?
(17:19):
And if you don't, we're happy for you to come back to us with a prepared one later.
But do you have a very good dad joke that you'd like to share with the audience?
Chris, that's the one I was actually putting in my diary to prepare for.
Unfortunately, I don't. But, you know, there is...
You know, there's an old chestnut when, you know, someone says,
I'm tired or I'm hungry, and you go, hi, hungry, I'm Terry, and they'll be groaned.
(17:47):
But no, I'm, yeah.
Actually, that's interesting. I'll come back to you on a good dad joke.
Because you can send me a dad joke, and I'll post it after the episode.
But there's the idea of, you know, I don't know if you can do any Tony Robbins
stuff, but the idea of saying, I am hungry versus I feel hungry.
That's interesting. The dad joke actually does cut that off at that thought
(18:08):
process. I never really considered that angle.
It does. Although acknowledging hungry is probably not a bad thing.
No, no, not at all. Yeah. So, look, we'll have to wrap up soon.
We've got clinic, both of us.
Is there anything else you wanted to say to our audience? Obviously,
you can tell us a little bit about the Mindsight Clinic and what you're doing
(18:28):
there. That would be a good topic for people to hear about.
But is there anything else you wanted to share with the dads or the patients out there?
Chris, I would say to all the dads out there that, you know,
you have the potential to really make a huge impact in the lives of your kids.
If you can invest in your own health and wellbeing, you'll be a better dad for it.
(18:51):
Take real joy in your kids. They can be challenging. They can,
you know, poke all your buttons.
At the end of the day, though, they're your little people. and if you can start
early and it's never too late to be a better dad.
I'd also encourage people to look up the concept of a growth mindset.
(19:13):
It doesn't matter if you've got adult children, young children.
I believe that they can grow and that we as dads can grow and if you take some
time to invest in yourself, it's never too old, not too late to teach an old dog new tricks.
I like that, Terry. Well, that has been a lovely healthy dad convo. Thank you for sharing.
(19:33):
It's not easy sometimes as a medical dad to talk about these things,
but I'm glad everyone is here having conversations.
Music.
I'll let you get back to clinic. You have a great day. Cheers, Chris.
Terry did come back to us with a dad joke. It goes as follows.
I have an inferiority complex, but it's not a very good one.
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