October 19, 2024 • 20 mins
A licensed therapist and mother of six-year-old twins shares her honest journey of navigating the emotional and logistical challenges of raising multiples while managing a professional career. She delves into her experiences with postpartum depression and the struggles faced during the first two years, emphasizing the unrealistic expectations society places on mothers, especially those of twins. The conversation highlights the critical importance of self-care, seeking support, and setting realistic expectations to cope with the unique stresses of parenting. As she reflects on the evolving dynamics of her family life, she discusses how she adapted to the changing needs of her children and the value of having a strong support system. Through practical strategies and personal insights, she offers encouragement to other twin moms, reassuring them that while the journey is tough, it does get better.
Navigating the complexities of motherhood, especially as a licensed therapist and mother of twins, offers a unique perspective on the emotional and logistical challenges that many parents face. The conversation delves into the raw experiences of postpartum depression and the often unspoken realities of the first two years of parenting twins. With candid reflections, the speaker shares her journey, highlighting the societal pressures to maintain a facade of happiness while managing the chaos of raising multiples. The episode emphasizes the importance of self-care, recognizing the need for support, and the significance of allowing oneself to feel a range of emotions without guilt. This honest discourse not only sheds light on the difficulties of balancing a professional life with the demands of motherhood but also encourages listeners to embrace their experiences and seek help when necessary.
Another critical theme is the discussion around societal expectations of mothers, particularly those with twins. The interview highlights how these expectations can lead to feelings of isolation and inadequacy, especially when the reality of parenting doesn't align with the idealized versions presented in media and society. The speaker challenges listeners to rebel against these narratives and redefine what it means to be a
Takeaways:
- The first two years of parenting twins can be incredibly challenging and overwhelming, but they get better with time.
- It's essential for mothers to embrace their emotions and seek support when needed, especially during tough times.
- Setting realistic expectations and allowing oneself to adapt to the realities of parenting can ease stress.
- Mothers of multiples often face unique societal pressures that can make their experiences feel isolating.
- Creating a solid support system, including childcare options, can significantly improve the parenting experience.
- Finding joy in small moments and allowing for personal space can enhance overall well-being as a parent.
A special thank you to Vetted Dermlab. Backed by science. Created by dermatologists. Effective and ethical ingredients. No gimmicks or fads. Use code LUCINDAK15 for 15% off your purchase: go.shopmy.us/p-11688145
Another special thank you to KOZAKH Jewelry. Uniquely on trend designer jewelry that’s waterproof, tarnish-proof, and sustainably handmade in the USA. Use code LUCINDA25 for 25% off: https://shopmy.us/collections/1146101
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So if you don't mind, if youcould introduce yourself and give
your backstory for our listeners.
Yeah, of course.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth.
I'm a motherhood coach, butbefore I became that, that's rewiring
the story a little bit,because I had been running a private
(00:20):
practice in coaching andcounseling for a couple years, and
then my husband and I got married.
We were very happy.
Very t shirt, but great.
And when we actually gotmarried, we decided, oh, there's
just so much love inside thislittle family of ours that we really
wanted to have more going on,I think.
(00:42):
So we decided, okay, let's tryfor a little baby.
And that was such a warm,fuzzy feeling inside the both of
us.
And I did all the figures.
My prenatals, my folic acid.
I, like, tweaked my diet alittle bit.
I, like, I was prepared, and Iwas research on how to get pregnant.
And so I did that apparentlyquite well, because on my second.
(01:07):
On our second month, we got pregnant.
That unfortunately ended in avery early miscarriage, which was
something I was quite.
I don't know, sober about,because I knew that could happen.
But then by the third try, thethird month, I was pregnant, and.
And we were, like, through the roof.
Like, the line was so clear.
I was like, yes, this is gonnabe it.
(01:28):
So, all very happy.
And we had a plan for afterwards.
Toward the end of the birth, Iwas gonna take it a bit easy, and
then my maternity leave, and Iwas gonna be at home for about a
year with our kiddo.
But then week five of mypregnancy hits, and I think for those
who are already moms know thatweek five is very early.
(01:51):
I got diagnosed with HG, whichis hyperemesis, called vidatium.
I'm probably butchering thename, but it's basically means that
it's the.
It's a pregnancy disease, amorning sickness.
You all know that.
Your morning sickness, right?
But basically, I was extremelynauseous for nine whole months, which
ended up being, like, theworst time of my life because I was
(02:15):
just stuck to the bed andliterally could not get up.
I lost 20 pounds in the first trimester.
It was rough.
Even water would make me nauseous.
It was horrible.
And, yeah, I can see her expression.
It was not like it was horrible.
And it was basically, I'mstuck in the worst hangover of my
life for nine straight months,and I wasn't able to sleep.
(02:37):
I wasn't able to do anything.
Like, you can watch tv or reada book.
And as a mental healthspecialist, I already knew, okay,
this is not gonna do wondersfor my make for health.
So I did already feel myself abit sliding.
I was like, okay, thisdeadline gets through it.
And eventually I was inducedat 41 weeks and five days because
I was like, getting baby outof me.
(02:58):
I can't do it anymore.
And then I do have to tellyou, the birth was by far the easiest
part of a whole pregnancy.
So I guess that's sickling something.
And I was like, oh, yes, theycan finally get back to being me.
And.
Cause I lost my wholeidentity, right?
I was only the sick pregnantperson in bed.
And then when I was, mydaughter was about eight weeks old.
(03:22):
I mean, I was okay.
I was newborn.
Tiredness had been kicking inand all those things.
That was not great, but I wasdoing much, much better than my pregnancy.
But then when my daughter waseight weeks old, my period returned,
even though I was exclusivelybest breastfeeding.
So I had not expected it foranother couple months at least.
And all the hormones and allthe sleep deprivation and everything,
(03:46):
that what came flushing backwith that menstrual cycle was just.
It spiraled me into being okayto completely suicidal in one afternoon.
And that was pretty rough, ifI may say so myself.
I knew what was happening as a cherry.
(04:07):
On top of this pregnancy, Igot a horrible postpartum depression
and a horrible postpartum anxiety.
And it was.
It felt like the end of theworld for me.
Yeah, that was my not so fun backstory.
But fast forward to now.
My daughter's two and a halfyears old.
I am thriving.
(04:29):
I'm doing great.
I got a lot of help, a lot of therapy.
I had a great support system.
And eventually I actually alsowent on medication.
And all those things combinedreally helped save me, I would say.
But I remember vividly during,towards a little bit, towards the
end, I was like, I saw thelight at the end of the tunnel.
And I told myself, Elizabeth,if you, not if.
(04:52):
When you get through this,you're going to make sure that no
other mom ever has to gothrough what you went through without
supports, of, without help,without acknowledgement, without
resources.
So that I've been talking forway too long.
But that's mainly why I'm here.
That's why I started Ells corner.
(05:14):
I changed my direction of myprivate practice, and I went full
on helping educate pregnantmoms who think they might be susceptible
to PPD and PPA to help themprep and put, like, things in place
to make sure that they hadfallback system.
I had helped a lot ofpostpartum moms, mainly, who the
(05:37):
moms were googling in themiddle of the night.
Does it get better?
Will I ever sleep again?
Why do I feel this way?
And then I also have quite afew moms that I help, that I have
kids with that are pre, pre k.
I think, like, still at homewho are.
Who thought the same as I did.
Like, happy to have a baby.
(05:57):
We have so much love in this family.
But somewhere along the way,they got lost in their motherhood
journey, and they're nothaving that much fun again.
So I help them reclaim theirmotherhood journey, and that's what
I do, and that's who I am, andthat's why I'm here.
I can't imagine in oneafternoon suddenly feeling suicidal,
(06:22):
especially if that feeling isnew or if that level of that feeling
is new.
Did it feel like an emergency?
It felt just like I justwanted everything to stop.
I just wanted to.
I wanted to catch my breathand get off of this rollercoaster
(06:43):
of negativity and horriblenessthat I felt I was on.
And I felt that the only wayto do that was to die.
In our first episode, I wasspeaking with Bianca Sprague, and
one of the main things she wastalking about was how suicide is
(07:04):
the leading cause of deathsamong new mothers.
That if we but mothers are soafraid to talk about that or to mention
that, because at least inAmerica, it's such a taboo topic,
(07:27):
I think.
But that if we're able tospeak about it, then it's so much
more likely that we can get better.
Now you take the power away abit, right?
I am always incredibly openabout who I am and what I went through.
And very early, when peopleask me what I do, I throw that little
(07:48):
bomb that I wanted to tellmyself that I just didn't want to
live anymore.
I usually pretty early on in aconversation, just drop that.
And my reasoning for that isbecause at least already one mom
hears that and gets helpbecause I say that.
Worth it.
But I do have to say thatliterally every single person I talk
(08:08):
to or I speak to about this,whether they're my age, genders,
or even, like, boomers, likeour parents, they all say either,
oh, I've been through thatmyself, or they've been through that
with someone very.
In a very close circle.
It's this.
It's weirdly that this is thisuniversal thing and no one is talking
(08:29):
about it.
And there's such a big taboobecause, yes, women are afraid and
ashamed of.
It, and it seems like thereare consequences or potential consequences
or fear of being seen as a bad mother.
I feel like there's such aneed to keep up a front.
There's this classical view,right, of the depressed housewife
(08:52):
who drowns her baby in the bathtub.
That is just only obviouslydoesn't go like that.
But there's only a very smallamount of women who actually experience
postpartum depression orpostpartum anxiety that actually
have those feelings.
And it's so much broader.
The spectrum is so much bigger.
So it's not just that.
And often when I hear myclients in my practice, they're like,
(09:15):
yeah, I don't really wanthelp, or I didn't really feel like
I need help because I'm as badas others, and I don't have it as
bad.
That's interesting.
What do you think that's about?
I think that about women arevery powerful.
Let me start by saying thatright where I am all the way, teen
women, because we're great.
(09:36):
We're awesome.
Like, we're doing all thethings right, but we have to be strong.
And also, in our.
We, I think over the past fewdecades, we've tried to be very masculine.
We've tried to really adopt avery masculine energy.
If you feel comfortable beinglike that, that is completely fine.
But I feel that there shouldstill be a lot of space for one's
(10:02):
femininity and the durabilitythat's in there.
And if we don't do that, we, alot of women think, okay, yes, I'm
crying every single night.
I'm not getting any sleep.
But I have to be strong.
And it's.
I don't have it as bad as thisother woman that I heard about who
jumped off a bridge, becauseI'm nowhere like that.
(10:23):
I'm much stronger.
I have to be strong for myfamily, for my kids.
In believing that way, weperpetuate that feeling that we have
to stay strong.
And also, you can still admityour vulnerabilities and that you're
not doing well while stillstaying strong.
I feel like what you aresaying is the same as the pressure
(10:46):
to be, like, super mom, like,perfect, momentous, like, who cook
meals for everybody all daylong and goes to every school event
and has a career also and isnever laid.
And it's also because if youlook at today's social media landscape,
(11:09):
right, as a mom, as a woman, Ithink maybe even as a man nowadays,
you're never doing anything right.
You're breastfeeding.
Oh, okay.
But you shouldn't hate on thepeople who bottle feed you?
Bottle feed your kids.
Oh, no, you shouldn't do that,because breastfeeding is best for
your kid.
Oh, you're letting your kidplay with that toy.
Oh, she'd never do that.
(11:30):
Oh, you're letting your brainlike, there's never.
You can never win.
And so you have to stay strongand put up this front.
And I don't think that'sbenefiting anyone in the long run.
And I always say, and it'ssuch a simple thing, right?
But I always say to myclaudio, and you are the best mom
for your kids.
There is no one who is abetter mom for your kids than you
(11:54):
are.
And you, your intuition, yourfeelings are always going to be the
right thing for you and your family.
So do what you feel feelsright for your family, but don't
do it because you feel likeyou have to.
Right.
And that is such a core thing.
But a lot of people seem to beforgetting nowadays, and I just.
(12:16):
It's a shame.
Yeah.
It's like there's impostersyndrome in being a mother.
Yeah, that's the one placewhere you shouldn't feel imposter
syndrome.
No, no, exactly.
I try to make it a board tonever judge any mom.
Okay?
If I see a pregnant womandrinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes,
(12:36):
then I'm a little bit judgy.
But every mom should just beable to do what.
You don't know what's going onbehind closed doors.
You don't know what kind ofnight she's had.
You don't know what kind ofday she's had.
Like, you have no place injudging anybody there.
So if the next time you see amom in the grocery store with her
kid and the kid is screaming,crying on the top of her lungs, instead
(12:58):
of saying, well, I neverscreamed that way.
Or making a judgment aboutthat, saying, hey, can I help you?
Do you need anything?
You want me to hold your babyfor a little bit?
Or in what way can I supportyou to make the world a little bit
of a better place?
So what was the.
The process?
What was the first step that you.
Took to getting better, you mean?
I remember husband, he had togo on a business trip, and he felt
(13:21):
really bad about leaving mewith a newborn behind.
My parents were very close,still very close with me.
And my mom came over basicallythe whole time to just be with me
and the little newborn.
And I remember standing overthe crib with her and looking at
my baby and telling her allthese things about what kind of character
I thought my kid had what kindof, like, temperament, how I wanted
(13:44):
her to be taken care of andhow to dress her, how to bathe her
and all those things.
And I remember vividlythinking at one point, like realizing
almost like a light bulb wenton, I was like, in any of these scenarios
I'm talking about now to mymom, I'm not there.
I do not see myself in this picture.
(14:05):
And then I was like, okay, shit.
It is really not supposed tofeel this way.
Get this thing away from you.
Acknowledge that you have a problem.
And then I looked at my momcrying, and I said, it's not supposed
to feel this way.
This is not good.
And she looked at me and shesaid, no, honey, I don't think so.
And then I said, mommy, Ithink I need help.
(14:27):
So there's a 28 year old womanthere, second to her, mommy.
Yeah, mommy, I need help.
And that was the first step,acknowledging it out loud and then
going to the right places toget that help with the support of
my family and my husband.
In the beginning, a lot ofpeople told me when I was just reaching
out for help, all thehealthcare professionals, they were
(14:48):
like, oh, you're so brave.
I'm so happy that you're sostrong to ask for help.
And I was like, I felt soweird and ashamed for that.
It felt so uncomfortable.
Now, an x amount of yearsafterwards, I am proud of myself.
I am proud that I took that step.
And I am.
I don't feel awkward oruncomfortable saying it out loud.
And that also goes to showthat we, as women, we can achieve
(15:11):
so much and we can recoverfrom so much.
Right?
That I like that.
That's incredible.
That's true.
We overcome a lot.
And it's okay.
You don't always have to holdyour head up proud and smile your
way through things.
But sometimes I saw this, Ithink on Pinterest, I saw this beautiful
(15:32):
drawing about a lady walkingup a mountain and then looking backwards
in the text that said,something like, today takes some
time to tell your previous.
You look at how far we've come.
Look at how far we made it.
Look at that goal that you setout for us.
We're here.
It's easy to take that for granted.
Oh, I already accomplished that.
(15:53):
It doesn't matter anymore.
And that's so doing yourself adisservice in my practice.
Whenever I'm helping moms,forever bitten as a bit, I had a
bit of a fluke or not, but I always.
We do a lot of positivepsychology, and there are so many
(16:14):
methods and ways to reallyreprogram your brain.
Right.
Because we have a lot ofanxiety or panic.
There's a lot of space in yourbrain taken off by that feeling.
But if we sort of bombard thebrain with the other type.
Right.
So things like those positive emotions.
So you've probably heard abouta gratitude journal and affirmations,
(16:38):
things like that.
They always feel a little bitsilly, but they actually are scientifically
proven to help.
So instead of the space inyour brain that goes towards the
negativity, the panic and theanxiety, we just overflooded with
other warm, fuzzy feelings.
And then at some point, youstart to feel tipping towards being
(17:00):
better.
And that is a really powerfultool that we can use to help moms.
Yeah, obviously.
Anyone.
But in my line of work, we useit for wrong, to make them feel good.
Like the dessert.
Yes.
And that's possible for anyone.
But what's so interesting isthat new moms, actually, I've just
(17:22):
read this book called gonnabutcher this, but I think it's matresin.
Matresin?
Oh, yeah.
That is lion.
My session's gonna do it, mom.
It's like the first thing Iteach them, and there's this wonderful
Ted talk, right?
It's about six.
She should watch it.
It's amazing.
Matresen's is, like, thisbeautiful term that makes every monk
(17:43):
feel so validated.
Right?
It changed everything for me.
Yes.
And I was like, why didn't Iknow about this?
Why don't.
Why isn't this, like, part ofthe school education?
Right?
Because we're taught aboutpuberty, men o'clock being the elderly,
but matrescence.
Oh, like, not a light bulb,but, like, the whole room lit up.
(18:07):
When I first saw that video acouple of years ago.
I have to watch the TEd talk.
I haven't the reason I alwaysshow that to my clients, because
I've read all the research andI've done my work on it, but I can
never explain it.
As well as the author of that term.
She's not really the author ofthe term, but the author of that
TED talk.
(18:27):
She explains it in, I think,six or seven minutes.
So.
Well, there's.
I could not do a better jobthan that.
It is amazing.
Lucy Jones is the author ofthe book, but doctor Alexandra Sachs.
Okay, if you're hearing thisand you're a mom or becoming a man,
watch the TED talk byAlexandra Sacks.
We're gonna.
(18:48):
This gave me so muchvalidation because it talks about
how all of the changes thathappen scientifically in your brain
and in your body when youbecome a mother and how your brain,
like, your sense of identity,expands to include your child.
(19:13):
So it's not just you anymore.
That's why your child is like,your guts and your soul.
Because, like, whether that'swhat your brain.
And men don't have, this, right?
Because we carry our children,our DNA are so entangled with them.
(19:35):
It's crazy.
And I think.
I.
I'm not 100% sure, don't quoteme on this, but I think a research
recently proved that there wasDNA from the kid in the mom's brain,
like, years after birth.
That is so beautiful.
(19:55):
Yeah.
And to not get locked in themundane of it.
Yes, you're washing binkies.
Yes, you're washing underwear.
But at the same time,remember, you carried this baby.
You carried this child.
And that is such an accomplishment.
And that's meant to undo thelove that foster parents and adoptive
parents have.
Because I also firmly believethat is a very strong connection.
(20:20):
But yeah, the research on thatthat I read, it's crazy.
And actually, Don Friedman andsome, a woman that I interviewed
recently, he has an adopted daughter.
And we were talking aboutthis, and she was saying, the way
I look at it is that her birthmother is her noun, mother, and I'm
(20:43):
her verb, mother.
Isn't that beautiful?
Yeah, I mother her.
That's something thatbiological mothers have to do, too.
The act of mothering.
Almost impossible to put itinto words, right.
Cause there's so many aspectsof it.
But I think what we're tryingto explain and trying to convey,
(21:06):
everyone who's gonna belistening to this podcast episode
will understand what we meanby that.
It's something that's doneevery day.
It's every day.
I don't know.
I don't know if you ever getto a point where you can coast.
I just don't know how bad it does.
I remember from our interview,because you published my interview,
(21:27):
and I remember there was onequestion in there you asked, who
would you want to meet in theworld, right?
Who would you want to havedinner with?
And I think I wrote downsomething like, I would like to meet
the mom who thinks she really,truly, firmly believed that she has
everything under control and agood feeling about it.
I don't know if she exists.
(21:49):
Yeah, I'd like to meet that mom.
Because it does feel likesomething that every day, I always
heard that in marriage or in arelationship, that you.
Every day you have to chooseyour partner and choose really.
And that way you're nevertaking them for granted.
And you're never.
But that's definitely how Ifeel with mothering every day.
(22:14):
It's a job.
It's a thing.
Get up and do it, and it's okay.
Some days are harder than others.
Some days are great.
And you're like, yes, I rockthis day.
This was good.
And some days are like, oh,this was a rough one.
This was.
And then, and then they go tosleep, and you look at them in their
tiny little beds and theirtiny little, like, relaxed faces
(22:34):
when they're asleep, and theydo hell all day.
Yeah, look at them, andthey're peaceful, and you just want
to cuddle them.
And such conflicting feelingsbecause during the day, if you're
having one of these roughdays, you're like, oh, go to sleep.
I want to be meta.
And then when there weresnakes, you just want to, like, crawl
in there with them.
And they're just oppressionwith their, like, soft little skin
(22:56):
and stuff.
It's a dichotomy, let's put it.
And like you said, you haveboth feelings at once.
Thank you so much.
Just thank you for obviouslybeing so honest about your story
and your experience and forall of the help that you give to
expecting mothers and new mothers.
I love it.
I love my job.
(23:16):
I love helping moms.
And, yeah, that's.
I just, it feels good to do that.
It is nice.
And I feel that also.
I can really understand wheremoms are coming from when they're
struggling.
And you have an instinct andyou can recognize something, even
if it's, like, small or, like,nuanced, you can recognize it and
you can know what to dobecause you've lived it, right?
(23:39):
In the end, I do say I am onlythe guide a little bit, right?
These moms who, they getbetter themselves, they.
They do all the work, right?
So let's not put too much on need.
Give.
Moms are so strong, and theydo it every single day.
So if you don't mind, if youcould introduce yourself and give
your backstory for our listeners.
Yeah, of course.
Hi, I'm Elizabeth.
I'm a motherhood coach, butbefore I became that, that's rewiring
the story a little bit,because I had been running a private
(00:20):
practice in coaching andcounseling for a couple years, and
then my husband and I got married.
We were very happy.
Very t shirt, but great.
And when we actually gotmarried, we decided, oh, there's
just so much love inside thislittle family of ours that we really
wanted to have more going on,I think.
(00:42):
So we decided, okay, let's tryfor a little baby.
And that was such a warm,fuzzy feeling inside the both of
us.
And I did all the figures.
My prenatals, my folic acid.
I, like, tweaked my diet alittle bit.
I, like, I was prepared, and Iwas research on how to get pregnant.
And so I did that apparentlyquite well, because on my second.
(01:07):
On our second month, we got pregnant.
That unfortunately ended in avery early miscarriage, which was
something I was quite.
I don't know, sober about,because I knew that could happen.
But then by the third try, thethird month, I was pregnant, and.
And we were, like, through the roof.
Like, the line was so clear.
I was like, yes, this is gonnabe it.
(01:28):
So, all very happy.
And we had a plan for afterwards.
Toward the end of the birth, Iwas gonna take it a bit easy, and
then my maternity leave, and Iwas gonna be at home for about a
year with our kiddo.
But then week five of mypregnancy hits, and I think for those
who are already moms know thatweek five is very early.
(01:51):
I got diagnosed with HG, whichis hyperemesis, called vidatium.
I'm probably butchering thename, but it's basically means that
it's the.
It's a pregnancy disease, amorning sickness.
You all know that.
Your morning sickness, right?
But basically, I was extremelynauseous for nine whole months, which
ended up being, like, theworst time of my life because I was
(02:15):
just stuck to the bed andliterally could not get up.
I lost 20 pounds in the first trimester.
It was rough.
Even water would make me nauseous.
It was horrible.
And, yeah, I can see her expression.
It was not like it was horrible.
And it was basically, I'mstuck in the worst hangover of my
life for nine straight months,and I wasn't able to sleep.
(02:37):
I wasn't able to do anything.
Like, you can watch tv or reada book.
And as a mental healthspecialist, I already knew, okay,
this is not gonna do wondersfor my make for health.
So I did already feel myself abit sliding.
I was like, okay, thisdeadline gets through it.
And eventually I was inducedat 41 weeks and five days because
I was like, getting baby outof me.
(02:58):
I can't do it anymore.
And then I do have to tellyou, the birth was by far the easiest
part of a whole pregnancy.
So I guess that's sickling something.
And I was like, oh, yes, theycan finally get back to being me.
And.
Cause I lost my wholeidentity, right?
I was only the sick pregnantperson in bed.
And then when I was, mydaughter was about eight weeks old.
(03:22):
I mean, I was okay.
I was newborn.
Tiredness had been kicking inand all those things.
That was not great, but I wasdoing much, much better than my pregnancy.
But then when my daughter waseight weeks old, my period returned,
even though I was exclusivelybest breastfeeding.
So I had not expected it foranother couple months at least.
And all the hormones and allthe sleep deprivation and everything,
(03:46):
that what came flushing backwith that menstrual cycle was just.
It spiraled me into being okayto completely suicidal in one afternoon.
And that was pretty rough, ifI may say so myself.
I knew what was happening as a cherry.
(04:07):
On top of this pregnancy, Igot a horrible postpartum depression
and a horrible postpartum anxiety.
And it was.
It felt like the end of theworld for me.
Yeah, that was my not so fun backstory.
But fast forward to now.
My daughter's two and a halfyears old.
I am thriving.
(04:29):
I'm doing great.
I got a lot of help, a lot of therapy.
I had a great support system.
And eventually I actually alsowent on medication.
And all those things combinedreally helped save me, I would say.
But I remember vividly during,towards a little bit, towards the
end, I was like, I saw thelight at the end of the tunnel.
And I told myself, Elizabeth,if you, not if.
(04:52):
When you get through this,you're going to make sure that no
other mom ever has to gothrough what you went through without
supports, of, without help,without acknowledgement, without
resources.
So that I've been talking forway too long.
But that's mainly why I'm here.
That's why I started Ells corner.
(05:14):
I changed my direction of myprivate practice, and I went full
on helping educate pregnantmoms who think they might be susceptible
to PPD and PPA to help themprep and put, like, things in place
to make sure that they hadfallback system.
I had helped a lot ofpostpartum moms, mainly, who the
(05:37):
moms were googling in themiddle of the night.
Does it get better?
Will I ever sleep again?
Why do I feel this way?
And then I also have quite afew moms that I help, that I have
kids with that are pre, pre k.
I think, like, still at homewho are.
Who thought the same as I did.
Like, happy to have a baby.
(05:57):
We have so much love in this family.
But somewhere along the way,they got lost in their motherhood
journey, and they're nothaving that much fun again.
So I help them reclaim theirmotherhood journey, and that's what
I do, and that's who I am, andthat's why I'm here.
I can't imagine in oneafternoon suddenly feeling suicidal,
(06:22):
especially if that feeling isnew or if that level of that feeling
is new.
Did it feel like an emergency?
It felt just like I justwanted everything to stop.
I just wanted to.
I wanted to catch my breathand get off of this rollercoaster
(06:43):
of negativity and horriblenessthat I felt I was on.
And I felt that the only wayto do that was to die.
In our first episode, I wasspeaking with Bianca Sprague, and
one of the main things she wastalking about was how suicide is
(07:04):
the leading cause of deathsamong new mothers.
That if we but mothers are soafraid to talk about that or to mention
that, because at least inAmerica, it's such a taboo topic,
(07:27):
I think.
But that if we're able tospeak about it, then it's so much
more likely that we can get better.
Now you take the power away abit, right?
I am always incredibly openabout who I am and what I went through.
And very early, when peopleask me what I do, I throw that little
(07:48):
bomb that I wanted to tellmyself that I just didn't want to
live anymore.
I usually pretty early on in aconversation, just drop that.
And my reasoning for that isbecause at least already one mom
hears that and gets helpbecause I say that.
Worth it.
But I do have to say thatliterally every single person I talk
(08:08):
to or I speak to about this,whether they're my age, genders,
or even, like, boomers, likeour parents, they all say either,
oh, I've been through thatmyself, or they've been through that
with someone very.
In a very close circle.
It's this.
It's weirdly that this is thisuniversal thing and no one is talking
(08:29):
about it.
And there's such a big taboobecause, yes, women are afraid and
ashamed of.
It, and it seems like thereare consequences or potential consequences
or fear of being seen as a bad mother.
I feel like there's such aneed to keep up a front.
There's this classical view,right, of the depressed housewife
(08:52):
who drowns her baby in the bathtub.
That is just only obviouslydoesn't go like that.
But there's only a very smallamount of women who actually experience
postpartum depression orpostpartum anxiety that actually
have those feelings.
And it's so much broader.
The spectrum is so much bigger.
So it's not just that.
And often when I hear myclients in my practice, they're like,
(09:15):
yeah, I don't really wanthelp, or I didn't really feel like
I need help because I'm as badas others, and I don't have it as
bad.
That's interesting.
What do you think that's about?
I think that about women arevery powerful.
Let me start by saying thatright where I am all the way, teen
women, because we're great.
(09:36):
We're awesome.
Like, we're doing all thethings right, but we have to be strong.
And also, in our.
We, I think over the past fewdecades, we've tried to be very masculine.
We've tried to really adopt avery masculine energy.
If you feel comfortable beinglike that, that is completely fine.
But I feel that there shouldstill be a lot of space for one's
(10:02):
femininity and the durabilitythat's in there.
And if we don't do that, we, alot of women think, okay, yes, I'm
crying every single night.
I'm not getting any sleep.
But I have to be strong.
And it's.
I don't have it as bad as thisother woman that I heard about who
jumped off a bridge, becauseI'm nowhere like that.
(10:23):
I'm much stronger.
I have to be strong for myfamily, for my kids.
In believing that way, weperpetuate that feeling that we have
to stay strong.
And also, you can still admityour vulnerabilities and that you're
not doing well while stillstaying strong.
I feel like what you aresaying is the same as the pressure
(10:46):
to be, like, super mom, like,perfect, momentous, like, who cook
meals for everybody all daylong and goes to every school event
and has a career also and isnever laid.
And it's also because if youlook at today's social media landscape,
(11:09):
right, as a mom, as a woman, Ithink maybe even as a man nowadays,
you're never doing anything right.
You're breastfeeding.
Oh, okay.
But you shouldn't hate on thepeople who bottle feed you?
Bottle feed your kids.
Oh, no, you shouldn't do that,because breastfeeding is best for
your kid.
Oh, you're letting your kidplay with that toy.
Oh, she'd never do that.
(11:30):
Oh, you're letting your brainlike, there's never.
You can never win.
And so you have to stay strongand put up this front.
And I don't think that'sbenefiting anyone in the long run.
And I always say, and it'ssuch a simple thing, right?
But I always say to myclaudio, and you are the best mom
for your kids.
There is no one who is abetter mom for your kids than you
(11:54):
are.
And you, your intuition, yourfeelings are always going to be the
right thing for you and your family.
So do what you feel feelsright for your family, but don't
do it because you feel likeyou have to.
Right.
And that is such a core thing.
But a lot of people seem to beforgetting nowadays, and I just.
(12:16):
It's a shame.
Yeah.
It's like there's impostersyndrome in being a mother.
Yeah, that's the one placewhere you shouldn't feel imposter
syndrome.
No, no, exactly.
I try to make it a board tonever judge any mom.
Okay?
If I see a pregnant womandrinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes,
(12:36):
then I'm a little bit judgy.
But every mom should just beable to do what.
You don't know what's going onbehind closed doors.
You don't know what kind ofnight she's had.
You don't know what kind ofday she's had.
Like, you have no place injudging anybody there.
So if the next time you see amom in the grocery store with her
kid and the kid is screaming,crying on the top of her lungs, instead
(12:58):
of saying, well, I neverscreamed that way.
Or making a judgment aboutthat, saying, hey, can I help you?
Do you need anything?
You want me to hold your babyfor a little bit?
Or in what way can I supportyou to make the world a little bit
of a better place?
So what was the.
The process?
What was the first step that you.
Took to getting better, you mean?
I remember husband, he had togo on a business trip, and he felt
(13:21):
really bad about leaving mewith a newborn behind.
My parents were very close,still very close with me.
And my mom came over basicallythe whole time to just be with me
and the little newborn.
And I remember standing overthe crib with her and looking at
my baby and telling her allthese things about what kind of character
I thought my kid had what kindof, like, temperament, how I wanted
(13:44):
her to be taken care of andhow to dress her, how to bathe her
and all those things.
And I remember vividlythinking at one point, like realizing
almost like a light bulb wenton, I was like, in any of these scenarios
I'm talking about now to mymom, I'm not there.
I do not see myself in this picture.
(14:05):
And then I was like, okay, shit.
It is really not supposed tofeel this way.
Get this thing away from you.
Acknowledge that you have a problem.
And then I looked at my momcrying, and I said, it's not supposed
to feel this way.
This is not good.
And she looked at me and shesaid, no, honey, I don't think so.
And then I said, mommy, Ithink I need help.
(14:27):
So there's a 28 year old womanthere, second to her, mommy.
Yeah, mommy, I need help.
And that was the first step,acknowledging it out loud and then
going to the right places toget that help with the support of
my family and my husband.
In the beginning, a lot ofpeople told me when I was just reaching
out for help, all thehealthcare professionals, they were
(14:48):
like, oh, you're so brave.
I'm so happy that you're sostrong to ask for help.
And I was like, I felt soweird and ashamed for that.
It felt so uncomfortable.
Now, an x amount of yearsafterwards, I am proud of myself.
I am proud that I took that step.
And I am.
I don't feel awkward oruncomfortable saying it out loud.
And that also goes to showthat we, as women, we can achieve
(15:11):
so much and we can recoverfrom so much.
Right?
That I like that.
That's incredible.
That's true.
We overcome a lot.
And it's okay.
You don't always have to holdyour head up proud and smile your
way through things.
But sometimes I saw this, Ithink on Pinterest, I saw this beautiful
(15:32):
drawing about a lady walkingup a mountain and then looking backwards
in the text that said,something like, today takes some
time to tell your previous.
You look at how far we've come.
Look at how far we made it.
Look at that goal that you setout for us.
We're here.
It's easy to take that for granted.
Oh, I already accomplished that.
(15:53):
It doesn't matter anymore.
And that's so doing yourself adisservice in my practice.
Whenever I'm helping moms,forever bitten as a bit, I had a
bit of a fluke or not, but I always.
We do a lot of positivepsychology, and there are so many
(16:14):
methods and ways to reallyreprogram your brain.
Right.
Because we have a lot ofanxiety or panic.
There's a lot of space in yourbrain taken off by that feeling.
But if we sort of bombard thebrain with the other type.
Right.
So things like those positive emotions.
So you've probably heard abouta gratitude journal and affirmations,
(16:38):
things like that.
They always feel a little bitsilly, but they actually are scientifically
proven to help.
So instead of the space inyour brain that goes towards the
negativity, the panic and theanxiety, we just overflooded with
other warm, fuzzy feelings.
And then at some point, youstart to feel tipping towards being
(17:00):
better.
And that is a really powerfultool that we can use to help moms.
Yeah, obviously.
Anyone.
But in my line of work, we useit for wrong, to make them feel good.
Like the dessert.
Yes.
And that's possible for anyone.
But what's so interesting isthat new moms, actually, I've just
(17:22):
read this book called gonnabutcher this, but I think it's matresin.
Matresin?
Oh, yeah.
That is lion.
My session's gonna do it, mom.
It's like the first thing Iteach them, and there's this wonderful
Ted talk, right?
It's about six.
She should watch it.
It's amazing.
Matresen's is, like, thisbeautiful term that makes every monk
(17:43):
feel so validated.
Right?
It changed everything for me.
Yes.
And I was like, why didn't Iknow about this?
Why don't.
Why isn't this, like, part ofthe school education?
Right?
Because we're taught aboutpuberty, men o'clock being the elderly,
but matrescence.
Oh, like, not a light bulb,but, like, the whole room lit up.
(18:07):
When I first saw that video acouple of years ago.
I have to watch the TEd talk.
I haven't the reason I alwaysshow that to my clients, because
I've read all the research andI've done my work on it, but I can
never explain it.
As well as the author of that term.
She's not really the author ofthe term, but the author of that
TED talk.
(18:27):
She explains it in, I think,six or seven minutes.
So.
Well, there's.
I could not do a better jobthan that.
It is amazing.
Lucy Jones is the author ofthe book, but doctor Alexandra Sachs.
Okay, if you're hearing thisand you're a mom or becoming a man,
watch the TED talk byAlexandra Sacks.
We're gonna.
(18:48):
This gave me so muchvalidation because it talks about
how all of the changes thathappen scientifically in your brain
and in your body when youbecome a mother and how your brain,
like, your sense of identity,expands to include your child.
(19:13):
So it's not just you anymore.
That's why your child is like,your guts and your soul.
Because, like, whether that'swhat your brain.
And men don't have, this, right?
Because we carry our children,our DNA are so entangled with them.
(19:35):
It's crazy.
And I think.
I.
I'm not 100% sure, don't quoteme on this, but I think a research
recently proved that there wasDNA from the kid in the mom's brain,
like, years after birth.
That is so beautiful.
(19:55):
Yeah.
And to not get locked in themundane of it.
Yes, you're washing binkies.
Yes, you're washing underwear.
But at the same time,remember, you carried this baby.
You carried this child.
And that is such an accomplishment.
And that's meant to undo thelove that foster parents and adoptive
parents have.
Because I also firmly believethat is a very strong connection.
(20:20):
But yeah, the research on thatthat I read, it's crazy.
And actually, Don Friedman andsome, a woman that I interviewed
recently, he has an adopted daughter.
And we were talking aboutthis, and she was saying, the way
I look at it is that her birthmother is her noun, mother, and I'm
(20:43):
her verb, mother.
Isn't that beautiful?
Yeah, I mother her.
That's something thatbiological mothers have to do, too.
The act of mothering.
Almost impossible to put itinto words, right.
Cause there's so many aspectsof it.
But I think what we're tryingto explain and trying to convey,
(21:06):
everyone who's gonna belistening to this podcast episode
will understand what we meanby that.
It's something that's doneevery day.
It's every day.
I don't know.
I don't know if you ever getto a point where you can coast.
I just don't know how bad it does.
I remember from our interview,because you published my interview,
(21:27):
and I remember there was onequestion in there you asked, who
would you want to meet in theworld, right?
Who would you want to havedinner with?
And I think I wrote downsomething like, I would like to meet
the mom who thinks she really,truly, firmly believed that she has
everything under control and agood feeling about it.
I don't know if she exists.
(21:49):
Yeah, I'd like to meet that mom.
Because it does feel likesomething that every day, I always
heard that in marriage or in arelationship, that you.
Every day you have to chooseyour partner and choose really.
And that way you're nevertaking them for granted.
And you're never.
But that's definitely how Ifeel with mothering every day.
(22:14):
It's a job.
It's a thing.
Get up and do it, and it's okay.
Some days are harder than others.
Some days are great.
And you're like, yes, I rockthis day.
This was good.
And some days are like, oh,this was a rough one.
This was.
And then, and then they go tosleep, and you look at them in their
tiny little beds and theirtiny little, like, relaxed faces
(22:34):
when they're asleep, and theydo hell all day.
Yeah, look at them, andthey're peaceful, and you just want
to cuddle them.
And such conflicting feelingsbecause during the day, if you're
having one of these roughdays, you're like, oh, go to sleep.
I want to be meta.
And then when there weresnakes, you just want to, like, crawl
in there with them.
And they're just oppressionwith their, like, soft little skin
(22:56):
and stuff.
It's a dichotomy, let's put it.
And like you said, you haveboth feelings at once.
Thank you so much.
Just thank you for obviouslybeing so honest about your story
and your experience and forall of the help that you give to
expecting mothers and new mothers.
I love it.
I love my job.
(23:16):
I love helping moms.
And, yeah, that's.
I just, it feels good to do that.
It is nice.
And I feel that also.
I can really understand wheremoms are coming from when they're
struggling.
And you have an instinct andyou can recognize something, even
if it's, like, small or, like,nuanced, you can recognize it and
you can know what to dobecause you've lived it, right?
(23:39):
In the end, I do say I am onlythe guide a little bit, right?
These moms who, they getbetter themselves, they.
They do all the work, right?
So let's not put too much on need.
Give.
Moms are so strong, and theydo it every single day.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.