March 13, 2025 • 27 mins
Navigating the emotional and psychological landscape of fertility challenges doesn’t have to feel like an uphill battle. That’s where fertility coach Becky Ackerman comes in, sharing her candid experiences and insights from her own journey through infertility. With a focus on stress management and a positive mindset, Becky emphasizes the importance of taking ownership of one's fertility experience and exploring alternative therapies that can make a significant difference. We dive deep into the complexities of shame, the critical role partners play, and the societal pressures that often weigh heavily on those trying to conceive. This conversation is a vital resource for anyone facing similar struggles, filled with encouragement and practical advice to help lighten the load.
Fertility challenges can feel like a never-ending rollercoaster, but in this episode, we sit down with fertility coach Becky Ackerman, who really gets it. Becky opens up about her own journey through infertility, which she navigated two decades ago when resources were scarce and the conversation around it even scarcer. She shares how she fought against the tide of stress and negative thinking, emphasizing that mindset plays a crucial role in the fertility journey. It's not just about the eggs and the science—it's about how you feel. Becky dives into the importance of managing stress, the sometimes surprising benefits of alternative therapies, and the significance of taking control of your own experience. She talks about the emotional weight of shame and guilt that often accompanies fertility struggles, and how partners can sometimes feel lost in the mix. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone feeling isolated in their journey, reminding us that taking ownership of our story can lead to empowerment and healing. Plus, there's a light-hearted exchange about the weirdness of social media during this journey, and Becky’s advice is refreshingly candid. Whether you're knee-deep in treatments or just starting to explore your options, this conversation isn't just a resource; it's a lifeline.
Navigating the turbulent waters of fertility can feel like an uphill battle, and in this episode, we welcome Becky Ackerman, a fertility coach who brings both expertise and empathy to the table. As she shares her personal saga of infertility, Becky reveals how the landscape of resources has evolved over the past twenty years, highlighting the critical role of emotional support and mindset in the process. We explore the ins and outs of stress management—because let's face it, stress is like that uninvited guest that shows up at every fertility appointment. Becky’s approach isn’t just about the medical side of things; she advocates for exploring alternative therapies, which she credits with helping her transform her experience and ultimately find success. The conversation digs deep into the shame and guilt often felt by those undergoing fertility challenges, alongside the unique perspectives of partners who may feel sidelined in the emotional rollercoaster. By the end of the episode, listeners will find themselves equipped with actionable insights and a sense of community, knowing they’re not alone in the struggle.
In a candid and heartfelt conversation, we chat with Becky Ackerman, a fertility coach with a personal story that resonates with many. From her own trials with infertility to her current role helping others, Becky sheds light on the emotional and psychological complexities tied to the journey of conception. She illustrates how vital it is to manage stress and maintain a positive mindset, especially when the path to parenthood seems rocky. Becky offers practical advice about alternative therapies that can complement traditional methods, emphasizing that taking charge of one’s experience is empowering. We touch on sensitive topics like the feelings of shame and guilt that can cloud the journey, and how partners often naviga
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
And welcome to I think I'mfrozen now.
I'm frozen.
There you go.
Now you're back.
I'm back.
Welcome to How I Ally.
I'm Lucinda Koza, and my guesthere today is going to introduce
herself and give a bit of a backstory.
Hey, everybody.
(00:21):
Hi, Lucinda.
Thank you so much for having me.
My name is Becky Ackerman andI am a fertility coach, which in
a nutshell means I am extrasupport and extra tools for women
who are struggling to get pregnant.
And I came to this after Imyself had a very difficult time
(00:42):
conceiving my first child anda little bit again with my second.
But one of the things that Ireally realized was that there aren't
a lot of resources.
And, and I'll just say thatthis, it's so much better now than
it was when I started myjourney, which has now been close
to 20 years ago.
(01:04):
So it's much, much better.
But there wasn't anything andpeople really didn't talk about it
back then.
And it was this horriblyembarrassing, really upsetting thing
to go through.
Essentially, I felt on my own.
(01:25):
My husband was wonderful, iswonderful, but frequently our partners
don't quite feel it in thesame way on the same level.
They don't have the bandwidthfor the conversation that just continually
comes out of you.
And.
And another big thing that Ilearned that really helped me and
(01:48):
got me to that first baby wasthat stress levels matter, stress
matters, mindset matters, yournegative thoughts, all of that, it
all makes a difference.
And so getting that pieceunder control, even if it's not the
silver bullet that gets you toyour baby, it will 100% be the thing
(02:12):
that helps you feel better andhelp you manage the journey better
so that you're able to keep going.
Absolutely.
I would agree with that frommy personal experience, but it took
me a very long time to get there.
Do you feel like that's whatgot you there?
That's what got me to my baby.
(02:33):
I had, after five and a halfyears of struggling and lots and
lots of failed rounds of iui,we never went on to ivf, But I took
a break.
And when I came back from thatbreak, I said, okay, I'm doing this
very differently.
And I went out and I tried aMayan massage therapist for abdominal
(02:55):
massage.
I found a hypnosispractitioner and I started doing
acupuncture.
And it was for sure the, therelaxation, because I can tell you
that I am sort of a highstress, high strung individual.
And I am one of those, workhard, try hard, study Hard, you know,
(03:20):
do all the things which a lotof women are.
It's really, really common.
That's what we've been taught.
And it works really well whenit comes to school.
School and when it comes toyour job.
But it is the absoluteopposite of really what you need
when you're trying to get pregnant.
And so, you know, I was 100%blind to that until I had a moment
(03:44):
of, well, I.
I've tried everything else, soI'm gonna give this a shot.
And then it worked.
And it was like, oh.
And then it was really with mysecond kid that it finally hit home
and was like, yeah, this isthe part that.
That we're not focusing on,that we really need to be spending
(04:04):
more time on.
So that's something that youdid on your own.
Did you discuss that with anyone?
Obviously you didn't have a coach.
So I'll tell you that when we.
When I left the fertilityclinic, I actually left the one that
(04:26):
I was seeing because we were moving.
We'd been living in PuertoRico and we were moving up to New
York.
And so I said, well, this is agreat moment to just walk away for
a little bit.
And I didn't know what I wasgoing to do.
The doctor, you know, on ourlast appointment, he was like, you'll
come back to this eventually.
Like, you for sure will.
(04:47):
Everybody always does, youknow, take a break and then come
back.
But I kind of in my head waslike, I really don't want to.
Like, I've had enough of this.
I don't like it.
It's not doing anything for me.
And I'm.
If this is what it's going totake, I don't think I'm in.
And, you know, a couple ofweeks after we moved, I went to the
library to get a library card.
(05:09):
And I kid you not, like,sitting on one of the end caps right
as I walked in was a bookcalled something like Hypnosis for
Infertility.
And I was like, well, thatfeels like a sign.
And so I got the book, and Ican tell you 100% that I hid it from
my husband.
Because I was like, I don'tknow what he's gonna have to say
(05:31):
about this, because, you know,at the time and even still today,
you say hypnosis to somebodyand they're like, that's a little
bit woo.
And way out there, even though.
Even though it's really not.
But, you know, I came home,read the whole book and was like,
I'm sold.
I gotta try this.
And So I found a woman who didit, and she was amazing.
(05:53):
And then while I was doingthat, I decided to start seeing an
acupuncturist.
And I'm a horrible, horribleneedle phobe.
Like, I hate needles in theworst possible way.
And so, I mean, I rememberwhen my mom found out that I was
going for acupuncture, herjaw, like, dropped.
She was like, wow, you are.
(06:14):
You are committed now.
I can, like, for sure.
Those things made all the difference.
All the difference, becausethey was able to help me let go.
I mean, we hold on so tightly.
Yes.
We hold on so tightly to the.
This has to happen for me.
My life isn't going to be.
My life is going to be ruined.
You know, I'm going to beempty and alone and sad, and we just
(06:36):
really cling to that.
And it's.
When you're able to actuallylet that go, as unintuitive as it
sounds, that's when thingsstart to turn around and get better.
That is so interesting,because that's.
I had that same feeling of.
(06:59):
I.
It was like, I finally.
I was actually talking to myfather at the time.
My father at the time.
My father at that time, I wastalking to him, and.
And he said something to methat, to some people, may sound weird,
(07:20):
but it like, oh, I'm gonna get emotional.
It just struck a chord.
He.
He said, you know, you don'thave to keep doing this if you don't
want to.
And to hear that from yourdad, it's like.
Wow.
Like, he actually care.
(07:41):
He actually really cares about me.
He's not like, I want agrandchild, you know?
Yeah.
And.
And it also, like, reminded meof, whoa.
Like, yes, this is my body.
This is my everything.
And I can.
Because it's been a horribleexperience so far, full of failure,
(08:04):
and.
And I don't think I want to doit again.
And it was like, once I tookthat ownership, sort of my body of
the experience, I was able torelax, I guess I was able to, like,
(08:24):
let go of all of the ickiness.
And that ownership issomething that does often get lost.
We sort of turn ourselves overto the doctors, and we just sort
of blindly.
And I don't say that in a badway, either about the doctors or
about you, the women.
It's just.
(08:45):
It's just what happens.
And so when you can start totake some of that back, you know,
it's really important.
That's one of the things thatI coach women on.
You've got to ask all your questions.
You've if something doesn'tfeel right, don't do it.
If you, you know, if you thinkthe doctor's not the one, find another
one.
Because I can't tell you howmany women I have talked to who are
(09:05):
like, yeah, I knew all alonghe wasn't the right doctor, but he
had such good reviews andblah, blah, blah.
And so we were with him for Xnumber of years.
And then I finally switched.
And when I switched, I got pregnant.
It was like, well, I mean,yeah, don't stick in a situation
that is less than ideal foryou just because you've heard great
things or your friends all gotpregnant with the same doctor.
(09:30):
It doesn't matter.
It's more about how you feel.
If you are not comfortable,your chances of success are going
to be lower.
Do you come across women whofeel a level of shame or guilt?
Yeah, all of it.
All the time.
All the time.
This is the one thing that ourbodies are supposed to do.
Like, this is the one thingfrom the time we're teeny tiny that
(09:52):
we know I'm going to grow upand I'm going to have a baby just
like my mom did.
And when it doesn't happen,it's a huge, like, what is wrong
with me?
What on earth?
And my friends are all havingbabies, so why.
Why not me?
There must clearly besomething wrong with me or I did
something once upon a time.
(10:13):
There's a lot of that.
What have I done to deserve this?
I must have done something terrible.
And spoiler alert, ladies,none of those things are true.
Yes.
Gosh, it's awful.
I mean, shame is like the mostinsidious feeling, I think, because
(10:36):
it keeps you from reaching outfor support or, you know, it keeps
you isolated, and that's hardto work through.
This is the process, like, ofworking through that.
It's the process of working through.
The shame is really just a lotof conversation and a lot of sort
(10:56):
of looking back, like, what did.
What do you.
What do you think you didthat's so bad?
And, you know, I get.
I'll tell you that I get a lotof all the drinking I did in college.
I hear that a lot.
And it's like, okay, well,look at your, like, five closest
friends who have all gotten pregnant.
(11:17):
What were they doing in college?
You know, so pointing out thatit can't possibly hold true because
you didn't do anythingdifferent than the average person.
You challenge the belief andyou look to poke holes in it.
(11:38):
And that's how you slowlychange your mindset in terms of the
shame.
I.
I'm sure you just.
You make such a difference inso many women's lives, just taking
that load off.
I'd like.
I mean, yes, I'd like to thinkthat I do.
(12:01):
I hear good things from myclients, but.
But it is, you know, like Itell people sometimes your partner
cannot talk about it anymore.
Often your mother or yourfather has no idea what to say to
you anymore because this isnot an experience that they're familiar
with.
And when your best friend hasjust had a baby, neither one of you
(12:23):
want to talk to the otherabout this.
Right.
Sadly.
So that's.
That's where I come in.
Do you ever work with partnersor both of them?
Both people or more than two people?
I don't know.
So to this point, I have not.
I've only worked with.
(12:44):
With the woman I've had.
I've had conversations withthe women I've worked with.
We have talked a couple oftimes about bringing their partner
in, and then they have madethe decision, for whatever reason
that they didn't want to.
You know, one of them.
(13:05):
I remember very clearly, oneof them said, nope, you're my person.
And so I'm not sharing that.
Which is interesting.
But by and large, no, I do notdo couples stuff.
That is really interesting.
Yeah.
I mean, obviously, the womanis the one who is just being poked
(13:29):
and prodded.
All of these hormones and thenfailing and thinking it's completely
my fault and the shame and theguilt and.
I mean.
But it's difficult on theother side, too.
It's difficult in differentways for the partner.
You know, What.
What do I say?
What more can I possibly say?
(13:49):
I've said all the things I canthink of to say, and it's not enough.
You know, I know that that'san issue.
Then there's the part where,like, so my partner comes at me all
the time with all of theirstuff, so where am I supposed to
go with my stuff?
That's also definitely an issue.
And I know there are coachesout there who do couples stuff, because
(14:13):
I would not want to everminimize the partners part of all
of this and their emotionalinvestment and.
And the pain and sadness andall of it that they're also feeling.
But I have just chosen largelybecause of what my experience was.
You know, we tend to sort ofcoach what what we know and what
(14:35):
we experienced.
And so that's very much what.
What I do.
Well, that's what you're anexpert in.
Yeah.
Is what you went through.
So you only ever did.
IUI Is that if.
If I may ask, yes.
So I had endometriosis thatwas totally asymptomatic, and it
(14:58):
took us three years to figureout that that was what was going
on.
When we figured it out, wealso learned that I had one fallopian
tube completely filled withfluid and a fibroid that was not
small.
It wasn't enormous, but it wasalso not small.
And I didn't know about any ofthese things.
(15:21):
So after we got it all takencare of, everything removed and resolved,
it actually happened in two parts.
I had two operations becausethe first one I didn't.
They didn't take my tube outbecause I had told my husband, I
don't want anything taken out.
And we didn't know because Ijust had this, you know, horrible
vision of like, I'm going toneed a hysterectomy, and I don't
(15:43):
want that without knowing thatI'm having it.
Yeah.
I mean, that's completely understandable.
Yeah.
So instead he found a fluidfilled fallopian tube and came and
asked my husband, can I pleasejust take it out?
And my husband very obedientlysaid, no, you may not.
And so he pinned it, hedrained it and he pinned it open,
(16:06):
which is a temporary fix.
So after that first surgery,he said, you know, everything's clear,
everything's open.
Go try for like three months,and if you're not pregnant, come
back and we'll start some iui.
So we did, and nothing happened.
And then we went for the IUIand the first round that we did,
I believe that first round wasthe one where I ovulated spontaneously.
(16:29):
So we missed the trigger shotand we weren't able to actually do
the iui.
Then it was during the secondround that I was in.
Oh, yeah, it's such good times.
I didn't even.
I've never even heard of that.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, it happens.
So I was back in for thesecond round, and we were in the
middle of monitoring, and hewas looking at the screen and he's
like sitting there scratchinghis head like, what?
(16:50):
Oh, yeah, your tube has filledup again.
Then I had to go in forsurgery again.
So came out of the secondsurgery and he said, again, okay,
so there's like, there'sreally no problem now.
It's all been taken out.
But because you only have onetube, it's probably going to be hard
for you to get pregnant onyour own.
And I really think that Iinternalized that, despite the fact
(17:12):
that I said to him right therein the Recovery room.
We're still going to go try onour own for a little while.
So we did.
We went for about three monthsagain and then we came back to do
more iui and it was a big fat nothing.
I mean, I did not respond tothe meds in any way.
I never produce anymore thanjust one egg.
So when we got to the end ofthe second, maybe even third, I can't,
(17:35):
I can't even remember if wedid two or three that time.
It turns out that it wasexactly at the same moment where
we found out we were moving,which lined up really nicely.
Cuz he was like, I think youshould move on to ivf.
I just really, for all of theobvious reasons, you know, it's a
lot of money and it's not asure thing, but.
But mostly in my head I waslike, but I haven't responded to
(17:56):
any of the medications thatI've been given so far.
Why I want to just take more.
Just like in my head it didn'tmake sense to me.
And so I, I said, no, not now.
I'm done.
I wasn't there.
You really have to be there.
Otherwise it's the worst thing.
I mean, it's.
(18:17):
Otherwise take the worst thingever and make it even worse.
Yes.
The most invasive.
Put your legs in the stirrups.
Metaphorically.
And literally.
And literally.
Yeah.
So just iui.
It's so much less of a huge deal.
Yeah.
But it's hard to say no to ivf.
(18:38):
I mean, that's what thefertility doctors are selling.
And again, not a knock on them.
That is their product andthat's what they do.
So if you're not totally init, it doesn't hurt to try a few
other things before you get tothat point.
I would agree.
(18:59):
Yeah, I did.
I.
I've decided to just includemy experience.
Yes, absolutely.
Because my God, why not?
Yeah, Yeah, I.
I did IUI before doing ivf andI just, I needed that.
I needed to do the thing thatfelt less scary first.
(19:22):
And I feel like because I didrounds of IUI that contributed to
actually having success with ivf.
You know, I think all thefailures, you know, ultimately helped
(19:43):
me get there.
How many rounds of IVF did youend up doing?
3.
And it was the last.
It was right before the lastone where I had that talk with my
dad and I was like, I'll dothis last one because we've already
paid for it, but I can't keepdoing this.
(20:11):
And like going through all ofthis and failing, like for years
of My life.
And then we were successful.
I mean, it was outrageous.
And I had twins.
Oh, did you really?
Yes, yes.
(20:35):
That's awesome.
It's the two.
It's the bonus, the catch up bonus.
Yeah.
Right?
That's awesome.
But letting go, I mean, it really.
Man, it just takes a weight off.
If you're able to say toyourself, you know, if you're able
to figure out what your lifemight look like if you don't have
(20:57):
children and be excited aboutthat, even as you.
Even as you continue trying tohave a child.
Right.
If you can recognize that I amin control, I don't have to do this
indefinitely.
I can stop whenever I want.
And if you, if you can let goof those things and the pressure,
(21:17):
then, then your chances ofsucceeding go way up.
I mean, I know nobody likes totalk about the woman who adopted
a kid and then immediatelygets pregnant, you know, after years
of struggle, but it's the same thing.
They've.
They've let go.
Right, right.
It's like Charlotte and Sex inthe City.
(21:40):
Oh, I, I'm so sorry for makingthat reference.
Although I, I fully appreciateSex in the City, but I also fully,
you.
Know, it's, it, look, it's areally painful thing when you see
that happen to somebody else,but that's really what it boils down
to.
It's the letting go that's so interesting.
(22:02):
And again, it's not going tobe the, you know, the magic potion
for every woman, but it' butit relieves so much stress that you
end up feeling better.
Your mindset shifts onceyou've made the choice that this
is not the end all, be allthat I've got a nice life, I've got
a good partner, everythingwill be fine.
(22:24):
It will be different than whatI had expected or hoped.
But that doesn't mean it can'tstill be good.
Absolutely.
I love that.
I love that that is such acornerstone of your coaching practice.
Yeah, yeah, we.
(22:44):
I talk about that with everybody.
What will your life look likeif you don't have a child?
Right.
Yeah.
Which is not.
It's not a signal that you'regiving up.
It's not, it's, you know, it'snot a white flag of surrender.
It's just an I know that I'vegot something in my back pocket if
(23:05):
I need it.
Right.
I love that.
Yeah.
It's important.
It's important and we don'ttalk about it.
And it's not intuitive tothink about it.
Right.
It's not intuitive.
It's it's like what you weretalking about before, about being
like the good girl, you know,the hard working girl, the high achiever,
(23:28):
which so many women are.
Yep.
I'm okay if I pivot.
I'm okay if I don't want tokeep doing this to myself just because
I said this was what I wantfour years later, maybe it's not
anymore.
And that's okay.
Yeah.
(23:48):
And I have worth.
Yeah.
Oh, for sure.
No matter what.
Yeah, no matter what.
I'm a human being and I haveworth and I will continue to have
worth regardless.
Right.
Regardless.
That's huge.
(24:09):
Yeah.
It's really important.
It's, you know, I don't know, we're.
It's just so inbred thatyou're supposed to have a baby and,
and I, I get that.
I feel it.
I know it, you know, in my soul.
I know that that's how we all feel.
But somewhere in there wegotta flip it and say, you know,
(24:31):
so I don't have a baby.
Whatever.
You know, here I am, here I amand everything's great.
Right.
And it's so, it's, it's sucha, it's so complex because this can
really kind of be applied to everything.
(24:53):
Yep.
And it's very, it can be veryhard to get to, to arrive there.
Like, I mean, just all thethings that we deal with in life.
Yeah.
It's.
We are a competitive bunch,for sure.
We compare ourselves to allour friends.
(25:17):
Social media is a whole funnew aspect of all of this.
That for some women, you know,for some women, it really helps to
be able to go on social mediaand talk about it with others.
And for other women, it is theworst thing possible to, you know,
have to get on there and seepictures of, of their friends, babies,
(25:41):
or to hear about these storiesof how I miraculously got pregnant.
It.
Social media is dreadful.
Personal, Personal opinion.
Social media is dreadful.
Even though, you know, you'llfind me on Instagram.
But, but it's hard in today.
(26:03):
It's hard.
Oh, yeah.
Yes.
There's so much pressure.
Yeah.
There's so much pressure.
And, you know, everythingthat's going on in the world with
women's health and women'srights can make the situation even
more stressful than it needsto be.
Absolutely.
(26:23):
Absolutely.
I don't need to take on theweight of the world, just the weight
of me.
Please.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
For sure.
It's tough.
So stress management is reallycritical when you're trying to have
(26:44):
a baby.
It will help you in so many somany different ways, and sometimes
it's surprising what can openup for you when you start focusing
on that piece.
Yeah.
Beautifully said and theperfect sound bite.
(27:10):
So thank you so much.
Thank you.
You have such a, like, brightdisposition, and it's just very.
I'm sure you're really greatat your job.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thanks for talking with me today.
(27:30):
It has been my pleasure, and Ilook forward to staying in touch
and connecting with anybodyout there who wants to chat.
And welcome to I think I'mfrozen now.
I'm frozen.
There you go.
Now you're back.
I'm back.
Welcome to How I Ally.
I'm Lucinda Koza, and my guesthere today is going to introduce
herself and give a bit of a backstory.
Hey, everybody.
(00:21):
Hi, Lucinda.
Thank you so much for having me.
My name is Becky Ackerman andI am a fertility coach, which in
a nutshell means I am extrasupport and extra tools for women
who are struggling to get pregnant.
And I came to this after Imyself had a very difficult time
(00:42):
conceiving my first child anda little bit again with my second.
But one of the things that Ireally realized was that there aren't
a lot of resources.
And, and I'll just say thatthis, it's so much better now than
it was when I started myjourney, which has now been close
to 20 years ago.
(01:04):
So it's much, much better.
But there wasn't anything andpeople really didn't talk about it
back then.
And it was this horriblyembarrassing, really upsetting thing
to go through.
Essentially, I felt on my own.
(01:25):
My husband was wonderful, iswonderful, but frequently our partners
don't quite feel it in thesame way on the same level.
They don't have the bandwidthfor the conversation that just continually
comes out of you.
And.
And another big thing that Ilearned that really helped me and
(01:48):
got me to that first baby wasthat stress levels matter, stress
matters, mindset matters, yournegative thoughts, all of that, it
all makes a difference.
And so getting that pieceunder control, even if it's not the
silver bullet that gets you toyour baby, it will 100% be the thing
(02:12):
that helps you feel better andhelp you manage the journey better
so that you're able to keep going.
Absolutely.
I would agree with that frommy personal experience, but it took
me a very long time to get there.
Do you feel like that's whatgot you there?
That's what got me to my baby.
(02:33):
I had, after five and a halfyears of struggling and lots and
lots of failed rounds of iui,we never went on to ivf, But I took
a break.
And when I came back from thatbreak, I said, okay, I'm doing this
very differently.
And I went out and I tried aMayan massage therapist for abdominal
(02:55):
massage.
I found a hypnosispractitioner and I started doing
acupuncture.
And it was for sure the, therelaxation, because I can tell you
that I am sort of a highstress, high strung individual.
And I am one of those, workhard, try hard, study Hard, you know,
(03:20):
do all the things which a lotof women are.
It's really, really common.
That's what we've been taught.
And it works really well whenit comes to school.
School and when it comes toyour job.
But it is the absoluteopposite of really what you need
when you're trying to get pregnant.
And so, you know, I was 100%blind to that until I had a moment
(03:44):
of, well, I.
I've tried everything else, soI'm gonna give this a shot.
And then it worked.
And it was like, oh.
And then it was really with mysecond kid that it finally hit home
and was like, yeah, this isthe part that.
That we're not focusing on,that we really need to be spending
(04:04):
more time on.
So that's something that youdid on your own.
Did you discuss that with anyone?
Obviously you didn't have a coach.
So I'll tell you that when we.
When I left the fertilityclinic, I actually left the one that
(04:26):
I was seeing because we were moving.
We'd been living in PuertoRico and we were moving up to New
York.
And so I said, well, this is agreat moment to just walk away for
a little bit.
And I didn't know what I wasgoing to do.
The doctor, you know, on ourlast appointment, he was like, you'll
come back to this eventually.
Like, you for sure will.
(04:47):
Everybody always does, youknow, take a break and then come
back.
But I kind of in my head waslike, I really don't want to.
Like, I've had enough of this.
I don't like it.
It's not doing anything for me.
And I'm.
If this is what it's going totake, I don't think I'm in.
And, you know, a couple ofweeks after we moved, I went to the
library to get a library card.
(05:09):
And I kid you not, like,sitting on one of the end caps right
as I walked in was a bookcalled something like Hypnosis for
Infertility.
And I was like, well, thatfeels like a sign.
And so I got the book, and Ican tell you 100% that I hid it from
my husband.
Because I was like, I don'tknow what he's gonna have to say
(05:31):
about this, because, you know,at the time and even still today,
you say hypnosis to somebodyand they're like, that's a little
bit woo.
And way out there, even though.
Even though it's really not.
But, you know, I came home,read the whole book and was like,
I'm sold.
I gotta try this.
And So I found a woman who didit, and she was amazing.
(05:53):
And then while I was doingthat, I decided to start seeing an
acupuncturist.
And I'm a horrible, horribleneedle phobe.
Like, I hate needles in theworst possible way.
And so, I mean, I rememberwhen my mom found out that I was
going for acupuncture, herjaw, like, dropped.
She was like, wow, you are.
(06:14):
You are committed now.
I can, like, for sure.
Those things made all the difference.
All the difference, becausethey was able to help me let go.
I mean, we hold on so tightly.
Yes.
We hold on so tightly to the.
This has to happen for me.
My life isn't going to be.
My life is going to be ruined.
You know, I'm going to beempty and alone and sad, and we just
(06:36):
really cling to that.
And it's.
When you're able to actuallylet that go, as unintuitive as it
sounds, that's when thingsstart to turn around and get better.
That is so interesting,because that's.
I had that same feeling of.
(06:59):
I.
It was like, I finally.
I was actually talking to myfather at the time.
My father at the time.
My father at that time, I wastalking to him, and.
And he said something to methat, to some people, may sound weird,
(07:20):
but it like, oh, I'm gonna get emotional.
It just struck a chord.
He.
He said, you know, you don'thave to keep doing this if you don't
want to.
And to hear that from yourdad, it's like.
Wow.
Like, he actually care.
(07:41):
He actually really cares about me.
He's not like, I want agrandchild, you know?
Yeah.
And.
And it also, like, reminded meof, whoa.
Like, yes, this is my body.
This is my everything.
And I can.
Because it's been a horribleexperience so far, full of failure,
(08:04):
and.
And I don't think I want to doit again.
And it was like, once I tookthat ownership, sort of my body of
the experience, I was able torelax, I guess I was able to, like,
(08:24):
let go of all of the ickiness.
And that ownership issomething that does often get lost.
We sort of turn ourselves overto the doctors, and we just sort
of blindly.
And I don't say that in a badway, either about the doctors or
about you, the women.
It's just.
(08:45):
It's just what happens.
And so when you can start totake some of that back, you know,
it's really important.
That's one of the things thatI coach women on.
You've got to ask all your questions.
You've if something doesn'tfeel right, don't do it.
If you, you know, if you thinkthe doctor's not the one, find another
one.
Because I can't tell you howmany women I have talked to who are
(09:05):
like, yeah, I knew all alonghe wasn't the right doctor, but he
had such good reviews andblah, blah, blah.
And so we were with him for Xnumber of years.
And then I finally switched.
And when I switched, I got pregnant.
It was like, well, I mean,yeah, don't stick in a situation
that is less than ideal foryou just because you've heard great
things or your friends all gotpregnant with the same doctor.
(09:30):
It doesn't matter.
It's more about how you feel.
If you are not comfortable,your chances of success are going
to be lower.
Do you come across women whofeel a level of shame or guilt?
Yeah, all of it.
All the time.
All the time.
This is the one thing that ourbodies are supposed to do.
Like, this is the one thingfrom the time we're teeny tiny that
(09:52):
we know I'm going to grow upand I'm going to have a baby just
like my mom did.
And when it doesn't happen,it's a huge, like, what is wrong
with me?
What on earth?
And my friends are all havingbabies, so why.
Why not me?
There must clearly besomething wrong with me or I did
something once upon a time.
(10:13):
There's a lot of that.
What have I done to deserve this?
I must have done something terrible.
And spoiler alert, ladies,none of those things are true.
Yes.
Gosh, it's awful.
I mean, shame is like the mostinsidious feeling, I think, because
(10:36):
it keeps you from reaching outfor support or, you know, it keeps
you isolated, and that's hardto work through.
This is the process, like, ofworking through that.
It's the process of working through.
The shame is really just a lotof conversation and a lot of sort
(10:56):
of looking back, like, what did.
What do you.
What do you think you didthat's so bad?
And, you know, I get.
I'll tell you that I get a lotof all the drinking I did in college.
I hear that a lot.
And it's like, okay, well,look at your, like, five closest
friends who have all gotten pregnant.
(11:17):
What were they doing in college?
You know, so pointing out thatit can't possibly hold true because
you didn't do anythingdifferent than the average person.
You challenge the belief andyou look to poke holes in it.
(11:38):
And that's how you slowlychange your mindset in terms of the
shame.
I.
I'm sure you just.
You make such a difference inso many women's lives, just taking
that load off.
I'd like.
I mean, yes, I'd like to thinkthat I do.
(12:01):
I hear good things from myclients, but.
But it is, you know, like Itell people sometimes your partner
cannot talk about it anymore.
Often your mother or yourfather has no idea what to say to
you anymore because this isnot an experience that they're familiar
with.
And when your best friend hasjust had a baby, neither one of you
(12:23):
want to talk to the otherabout this.
Right.
Sadly.
So that's.
That's where I come in.
Do you ever work with partnersor both of them?
Both people or more than two people?
I don't know.
So to this point, I have not.
I've only worked with.
(12:44):
With the woman I've had.
I've had conversations withthe women I've worked with.
We have talked a couple oftimes about bringing their partner
in, and then they have madethe decision, for whatever reason
that they didn't want to.
You know, one of them.
(13:05):
I remember very clearly, oneof them said, nope, you're my person.
And so I'm not sharing that.
Which is interesting.
But by and large, no, I do notdo couples stuff.
That is really interesting.
Yeah.
I mean, obviously, the womanis the one who is just being poked
(13:29):
and prodded.
All of these hormones and thenfailing and thinking it's completely
my fault and the shame and theguilt and.
I mean.
But it's difficult on theother side, too.
It's difficult in differentways for the partner.
You know, What.
What do I say?
What more can I possibly say?
(13:49):
I've said all the things I canthink of to say, and it's not enough.
You know, I know that that'san issue.
Then there's the part where,like, so my partner comes at me all
the time with all of theirstuff, so where am I supposed to
go with my stuff?
That's also definitely an issue.
And I know there are coachesout there who do couples stuff, because
(14:13):
I would not want to everminimize the partners part of all
of this and their emotionalinvestment and.
And the pain and sadness andall of it that they're also feeling.
But I have just chosen largelybecause of what my experience was.
You know, we tend to sort ofcoach what what we know and what
(14:35):
we experienced.
And so that's very much what.
What I do.
Well, that's what you're anexpert in.
Yeah.
Is what you went through.
So you only ever did.
IUI Is that if.
If I may ask, yes.
So I had endometriosis thatwas totally asymptomatic, and it
(14:58):
took us three years to figureout that that was what was going
on.
When we figured it out, wealso learned that I had one fallopian
tube completely filled withfluid and a fibroid that was not
small.
It wasn't enormous, but it wasalso not small.
And I didn't know about any ofthese things.
(15:21):
So after we got it all takencare of, everything removed and resolved,
it actually happened in two parts.
I had two operations becausethe first one I didn't.
They didn't take my tube outbecause I had told my husband, I
don't want anything taken out.
And we didn't know because Ijust had this, you know, horrible
vision of like, I'm going toneed a hysterectomy, and I don't
(15:43):
want that without knowing thatI'm having it.
Yeah.
I mean, that's completely understandable.
Yeah.
So instead he found a fluidfilled fallopian tube and came and
asked my husband, can I pleasejust take it out?
And my husband very obedientlysaid, no, you may not.
And so he pinned it, hedrained it and he pinned it open,
(16:06):
which is a temporary fix.
So after that first surgery,he said, you know, everything's clear,
everything's open.
Go try for like three months,and if you're not pregnant, come
back and we'll start some iui.
So we did, and nothing happened.
And then we went for the IUIand the first round that we did,
I believe that first round wasthe one where I ovulated spontaneously.
(16:29):
So we missed the trigger shotand we weren't able to actually do
the iui.
Then it was during the secondround that I was in.
Oh, yeah, it's such good times.
I didn't even.
I've never even heard of that.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, it happens.
So I was back in for thesecond round, and we were in the
middle of monitoring, and hewas looking at the screen and he's
like sitting there scratchinghis head like, what?
(16:50):
Oh, yeah, your tube has filledup again.
Then I had to go in forsurgery again.
So came out of the secondsurgery and he said, again, okay,
so there's like, there'sreally no problem now.
It's all been taken out.
But because you only have onetube, it's probably going to be hard
for you to get pregnant onyour own.
And I really think that Iinternalized that, despite the fact
(17:12):
that I said to him right therein the Recovery room.
We're still going to go try onour own for a little while.
So we did.
We went for about three monthsagain and then we came back to do
more iui and it was a big fat nothing.
I mean, I did not respond tothe meds in any way.
I never produce anymore thanjust one egg.
So when we got to the end ofthe second, maybe even third, I can't,
(17:35):
I can't even remember if wedid two or three that time.
It turns out that it wasexactly at the same moment where
we found out we were moving,which lined up really nicely.
Cuz he was like, I think youshould move on to ivf.
I just really, for all of theobvious reasons, you know, it's a
lot of money and it's not asure thing, but.
But mostly in my head I waslike, but I haven't responded to
(17:56):
any of the medications thatI've been given so far.
Why I want to just take more.
Just like in my head it didn'tmake sense to me.
And so I, I said, no, not now.
I'm done.
I wasn't there.
You really have to be there.
Otherwise it's the worst thing.
I mean, it's.
(18:17):
Otherwise take the worst thingever and make it even worse.
Yes.
The most invasive.
Put your legs in the stirrups.
Metaphorically.
And literally.
And literally.
Yeah.
So just iui.
It's so much less of a huge deal.
Yeah.
But it's hard to say no to ivf.
(18:38):
I mean, that's what thefertility doctors are selling.
And again, not a knock on them.
That is their product andthat's what they do.
So if you're not totally init, it doesn't hurt to try a few
other things before you get tothat point.
I would agree.
(18:59):
Yeah, I did.
I.
I've decided to just includemy experience.
Yes, absolutely.
Because my God, why not?
Yeah, Yeah, I.
I did IUI before doing ivf andI just, I needed that.
I needed to do the thing thatfelt less scary first.
(19:22):
And I feel like because I didrounds of IUI that contributed to
actually having success with ivf.
You know, I think all thefailures, you know, ultimately helped
(19:43):
me get there.
How many rounds of IVF did youend up doing?
3.
And it was the last.
It was right before the lastone where I had that talk with my
dad and I was like, I'll dothis last one because we've already
paid for it, but I can't keepdoing this.
(20:11):
And like going through all ofthis and failing, like for years
of My life.
And then we were successful.
I mean, it was outrageous.
And I had twins.
Oh, did you really?
Yes, yes.
(20:35):
That's awesome.
It's the two.
It's the bonus, the catch up bonus.
Yeah.
Right?
That's awesome.
But letting go, I mean, it really.
Man, it just takes a weight off.
If you're able to say toyourself, you know, if you're able
to figure out what your lifemight look like if you don't have
(20:57):
children and be excited aboutthat, even as you.
Even as you continue trying tohave a child.
Right.
If you can recognize that I amin control, I don't have to do this
indefinitely.
I can stop whenever I want.
And if you, if you can let goof those things and the pressure,
(21:17):
then, then your chances ofsucceeding go way up.
I mean, I know nobody likes totalk about the woman who adopted
a kid and then immediatelygets pregnant, you know, after years
of struggle, but it's the same thing.
They've.
They've let go.
Right, right.
It's like Charlotte and Sex inthe City.
(21:40):
Oh, I, I'm so sorry for makingthat reference.
Although I, I fully appreciateSex in the City, but I also fully,
you.
Know, it's, it, look, it's areally painful thing when you see
that happen to somebody else,but that's really what it boils down
to.
It's the letting go that's so interesting.
(22:02):
And again, it's not going tobe the, you know, the magic potion
for every woman, but it' butit relieves so much stress that you
end up feeling better.
Your mindset shifts onceyou've made the choice that this
is not the end all, be allthat I've got a nice life, I've got
a good partner, everythingwill be fine.
(22:24):
It will be different than whatI had expected or hoped.
But that doesn't mean it can'tstill be good.
Absolutely.
I love that.
I love that that is such acornerstone of your coaching practice.
Yeah, yeah, we.
(22:44):
I talk about that with everybody.
What will your life look likeif you don't have a child?
Right.
Yeah.
Which is not.
It's not a signal that you'regiving up.
It's not, it's, you know, it'snot a white flag of surrender.
It's just an I know that I'vegot something in my back pocket if
(23:05):
I need it.
Right.
I love that.
Yeah.
It's important.
It's important and we don'ttalk about it.
And it's not intuitive tothink about it.
Right.
It's not intuitive.
It's it's like what you weretalking about before, about being
like the good girl, you know,the hard working girl, the high achiever,
(23:28):
which so many women are.
Yep.
I'm okay if I pivot.
I'm okay if I don't want tokeep doing this to myself just because
I said this was what I wantfour years later, maybe it's not
anymore.
And that's okay.
Yeah.
(23:48):
And I have worth.
Yeah.
Oh, for sure.
No matter what.
Yeah, no matter what.
I'm a human being and I haveworth and I will continue to have
worth regardless.
Right.
Regardless.
That's huge.
(24:09):
Yeah.
It's really important.
It's, you know, I don't know, we're.
It's just so inbred thatyou're supposed to have a baby and,
and I, I get that.
I feel it.
I know it, you know, in my soul.
I know that that's how we all feel.
But somewhere in there wegotta flip it and say, you know,
(24:31):
so I don't have a baby.
Whatever.
You know, here I am, here I amand everything's great.
Right.
And it's so, it's, it's sucha, it's so complex because this can
really kind of be applied to everything.
(24:53):
Yep.
And it's very, it can be veryhard to get to, to arrive there.
Like, I mean, just all thethings that we deal with in life.
Yeah.
It's.
We are a competitive bunch,for sure.
We compare ourselves to allour friends.
(25:17):
Social media is a whole funnew aspect of all of this.
That for some women, you know,for some women, it really helps to
be able to go on social mediaand talk about it with others.
And for other women, it is theworst thing possible to, you know,
have to get on there and seepictures of, of their friends, babies,
(25:41):
or to hear about these storiesof how I miraculously got pregnant.
It.
Social media is dreadful.
Personal, Personal opinion.
Social media is dreadful.
Even though, you know, you'llfind me on Instagram.
But, but it's hard in today.
(26:03):
It's hard.
Oh, yeah.
Yes.
There's so much pressure.
Yeah.
There's so much pressure.
And, you know, everythingthat's going on in the world with
women's health and women'srights can make the situation even
more stressful than it needsto be.
Absolutely.
(26:23):
Absolutely.
I don't need to take on theweight of the world, just the weight
of me.
Please.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
For sure.
It's tough.
So stress management is reallycritical when you're trying to have
(26:44):
a baby.
It will help you in so many somany different ways, and sometimes
it's surprising what can openup for you when you start focusing
on that piece.
Yeah.
Beautifully said and theperfect sound bite.
(27:10):
So thank you so much.
Thank you.
You have such a, like, brightdisposition, and it's just very.
I'm sure you're really greatat your job.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thanks for talking with me today.
(27:30):
It has been my pleasure, and Ilook forward to staying in touch
and connecting with anybodyout there who wants to chat.
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