September 5, 2025 • 33 mins
What if your trauma could become your superpower in parenting?
In this powerful conversation, I sit down with Dr. Robyn Koslowitz, clinical child psychologist and author of Post-Traumatic Parenting: Break the Cycle, Become the Parent You Always Wanted to Be. We explore how childhood trauma shapes the way we show up as parents—and how the very act of raising children can be our path to healing.
We discuss:
- The difference between the trauma of presence and the trauma of absence
- Why conflict isn’t the problem in families—mismanaged conflict is
- How to “reprogram” the trauma app in your brain
- The power of repair and modeling healthy conflict for your children
- Why parenting is the perfect moment for rewiring and growth
If you’ve ever worried that your “damage will damage your kids,” this episode offers hope, compassion, and practical tools to shift that fear into strength.
🔗 Resources & Links:
- Post-Traumatic Parenting by Dr. Robyn Koslowitz (Amazon)
- Follow Dr. Koslowitz on Instagram: @posttraumaticparenting
- Connect with me on Instagram: @lucindarogerskoza
✨ If this episode resonated with you, please rate, review, and share — it helps more parents find the support they deserve.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So everybody, welcome to How I Ally.
I'm Lucinda Koza and I have a wonderful, very colorful guest with me today.
I would love for you to introduce yourself, if you would, and give just a bit of a backstory.
(00:24):
Sure.
I'm Dr.
Robyn Koslowitz.
I am the author of Post-Traumatic Parenting, which is all about breaking the cycles that only almost broke us so that our damage doesn't damage our kids.
And I am a clinical child psychologist.
I have a practice in New Jersey.
I.
Mostly what I do is work with post-traumatic parents.
I really believe that nobody sets out to parent in a way that's inconsistent with their values.
(00:50):
It happens because our trauma set us up for it, and if we can just understand that, we get so much better.
So that's the basics backstory.
Ooh, so your book just came out, like just came out, right? Yeah.
So it's called Post-Traumatic Parenting.
(01:12):
Yeah, it's break the cycle, become the parent you always want it to be.
And it's available everywhere on Amazon, like wherever you get books.
I, so I just started listening on Audible and it's I just listened to your story, um, which is.
Wow.
(01:33):
Certainly traumatic for a child.
And the trauma of absence.
Yeah, that.
That phrase te tell.
Tell me more about that.
That was really powerful.
Yeah.
I think people make a huge mistake about trauma PE and people very often discount themselves as traumatized.
(01:55):
They, they look at their own story and they say something like, well, I was, you know, bullied in elementary school, but my friend's dad beat her.
So how can I call myself traumatized? Right.
Or, I, just had.
All of these lacks in my childhood.
'cause my parent was a functional alcoholic, so I kind of never had supportive parenting, but there was food on the table.
(02:18):
My husband grew up in true poverty.
So how can I call myself traumatized? Right? And that mistake really.
Impacts how we see trauma.
'cause we look at trauma as though if it's not something that would end up on an episode of Law and Order, if it's not like this crazy story, then you're not traumatized.
But the truth is, the details of what happened to you don't matter nearly as much as how it landed on your psyche and how it made you feel about yourself and the world.
(02:45):
The trauma of absence is something that people really have a hard time seeing, right? Because it's easy to see the trauma of presence.
I was in a car accident.
My story is a very dramatic story that people could say, oh yeah, that must have been difficult, right? Um, someone's assaulted, someone's in a bombing, right? Those are things that are like.
Yeah, we know this is traumatic, but someone coming home every single day and not knowing if she's gonna get a kind supportive parent or a really critical mean parent, like I said, 'cause the parent's a functional alcoholic or coming home and there's a sibling with a critical illness and the whole family is focused on that sibling.
(03:19):
So then there's never anyone there for the normal developmental needs that a kid might have.
That's what I would call the trauma of absence.
And that's much harder to notice 'cause we notice the big things.
Things that are on the headlines, but we don't always notice the Yeah.
That happened and then I came home and I had no one to tell.
That's just harder for our brain to mark.
(03:40):
Yes.
That's so true.
And then sometimes you don't even grasp that, like something like the quote unquote, normal.
Normally developing child actually feeling more neglected than the special needs child within a family.
(04:10):
That's something that doesn't, may not naturally occur to you, but it's totally real.
Yeah.
And I, what I, what we say is sometimes trauma is not about what happened to you, it's what didn't happen for you.
And it's such, it's so important.
'cause otherwise we gaslight ourselves and then we say, oh, I wasn't traumatized.
And here's the other side of that.
(04:32):
When you're parenting and like, you mean to do X, but y happens, right? I am gonna stay calm and then you yell, or I am gonna be present with my kid during this really stressful moment.
And then you space out, right? I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold firm to my no.
And then you give in.
And you didn't mean to, if you don't understand that it's not you, it's your trauma.
(04:53):
There's a reason you're doing that, and it's because your trauma taught you to, you're gonna blame yourself, right? And you're just gonna be like, I'm the worst person in the world who yells at a 4-year-old.
As opposed to, how did I learn this, right? Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, so I'm just gonna lay it on you.
I'm not asking for a session, a free session.
(05:16):
But yeah, so, well my parents divorced I am like, and I have 2-year-old twins.
I'm terrified of like any kind of fighting with my husband in front of them.
(05:38):
Like terrified.
Yeah.
Like I feel like it's just the worst thing that I could do.
Yeah.
Because I know, because I, you know the impact of that on yourself, so you are thinking, this is the worst thing ever.
(06:00):
If I ever fight with my husband and my kids see this, I remember what it felt like to watch my parents fight or to, to know that they were in conflict and they didn't get along, and I don't want that for my kids.
And that makes so much sense.
The problem is, of course, a relationship sometimes has friction.
It's not about not fighting, it's about how do you have a good, productive fight that moves the relationship forward.
(06:24):
So if you're so, in fact, think of people you never fight with, they're probably people you don't know very well.
Your close friends you've gotten into fights with.
Yes.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or at least passionate, talks disagreement.
Right, right.
So the, the, in the book, we call the profile that you likely fit into, not to diagnose you, 'cause it's not a diagnostic category, but we call that.
(06:48):
It's either the paralyzed or the perfectionist parent.
Those are those in either of those two subtypes very often come from a family that was high conflict.
Yes.
And what you're trying to do and what you're forgetting is that your kids are not you.
Your kids have you.
If you and your husband have a strong relationship.
(07:09):
And you know how to repair.
And even more crucially, when healthy couples fight.
The research shows this when healthy couples fight in front of their kids and they know how to manage conflict well, they allow their kids to also witness the resolution of the disagreement.
So they don't just like argue in front of the kids and then make up in their bedroom later that night? Yeah.
(07:30):
They say something to the kids, they might make up in their bedroom later that night, but the next day they say, you know how me and daddy both had really big feelings yesterday about whose turn it was to buy the milk and.
Why are we out of milk? So that was a silly problem that we had, and we figured it out.
And from now on, we're gonna whatever order the milk to be auto delivered, whatever the solution is.
(07:51):
Mm-hmm.
You know, and then if they say, I don't like it when you and daddy have, you know, yell at each other.
Okay, I hear that.
Yeah.
We don't like it either.
We're gonna work on managing our big feelings.
So you talk about the conflict and you show them that it was resolved.
Oh man.
That wow.
So you're modeling because they, because you, hmm.
(08:13):
Because you can't protect your kids.
From having conflict.
Yeah.
In their lives you can't, and then they'll grow up afraid of conflict.
And it's not conflict, that's the problem.
It's mismanaged conflict.
That's the problem.
Right.
If your parents had had good conflict, it wouldn't have been a problem if it would've been like a mechanism for making this decision wouldn't have a problem.
(08:35):
It's that they had destructive conflict that ultimately tore them apart, which may have been a good thing, right? Because staying together might have made more conflict, but you saw conflict as the worst possible thing.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's not conflict That must be avoided.
It's destructive conflict that must be avoided, you know? Right.
To be open about myself.
I, my trauma coping adaptation is dissociation.
(08:58):
When I am stressed out, I just space out and.
I always thought that was the best way to parent because then I never yelled at my kids.
And I'm actually a fellow twin mom, but my twins are adults now.
You know, they're in college and they, and one of my twins actually said to me like, mommy, where do you go when you go away behind your eyes? And then he started to cry.
(09:19):
He was 10 years old.
And he said, you know, you know, sometimes you're talking to me, but you're not there and I don't like it.
And I remember thinking like, I'm trying to protect you from my stress, because if I was there, I'd yell at you.
And in my mind, yelling was the worst possible thing that you could do to a child.
You know, like getting really on edge with them, right? Because I witnessed that in a very medically compromised home growing up I witnessed a lot of like emergencies and loudness and I wanted it to be calm and quiet.
(09:48):
So I thought I was protecting him, but I was actually harming him 'cause he didn't like it.
He was right.
I wasn't present.
So then I had to learn and I always say, you know, our kids are the map, the mirror, and the motivator.
Out of our trauma because it isn't until our kids that we're willing to change our trauma adaptation.
'cause I bet there are a lot of situations in your life where you manage conflict by just not having conflict and it works fine.
(10:12):
Yeah.
Yeah, but you know that if you love your husband, you have to sometimes have conflict with him.
And same because actually that's how relationships grow, right? It's rupture and repair.
We know the analogy of like building a muscle, right? That you, you the whole sensation of Charlie Hurst that you get when you like lift weights is that you're tearing the muscle so that it will then repair itself and grow stronger.
(10:35):
It's the same thing with relationships.
We tear it slightly with the, what do you mean? I thought you were buying the milk? No, I thought you were buying the milk.
We tear it slightly and then we fix it and the relationship goes stronger.
Right, that's how it is with friends, family, yourself, dealing with yourself.
(10:55):
Yeah.
I mean it's, it's painful to grow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think really well-managed conflict always grows relationships and we have to be able to have conflict with our kids.
Right? You're like, now you're, your twins are two, so you're still in the stage where you're like, you know you're Superman.
You know, you're like everything like, whoa mom.
(11:15):
She knows how to like do all these things and Right.
And eventually though they're gonna be teenagers.
And then you're like, there's gonna be conflict.
Already.
Now there's probably conflict, but it's probably the conflict where you're pretty sure you're right.
I don't wanna stop screen time.
Yeah, but you gotta, you know, I don't wanna put on my shoes.
Yeah, but it's hot outside and you're gonna burn your feet.
Like these are like easy to manage conflicts 'cause you know that you're doing the right thing.
(11:37):
It's when they're a.
In middle school and everyone in class has this or watches this and you don't think it's the right thing.
Like now no one's gonna be my friend 'cause I won't know what happened on the last episode of the show and I won't be able to tell my friends about it.
And, and I can't follow that person on TikTok and I don't know what he's doing.
And you made me commit social suicide where you're like, am I doing the right thing? Am I doing the wrong thing? And you have to be able to have that conflict.
(12:01):
Oh my gosh.
That sounds awful.
And yet when you can have that conflict and you can say to the kid, all right, let's figure this out.
Here's my concerns about that show.
Maybe we should watch it together because we can discuss some of the scarier parts or maybe not that show, that show No, but this show.
(12:22):
Yes.
Or that influencer not, but that this influencer.
Yeah.
Right.
Like and you can manage it.
The relationship gets stronger.
Yeah, because you're actually having these conversations that are important.
Very important.
Yeah.
And then they know that you are there to hear them out and you are gonna make things work for them.
(12:45):
And when, you know, I think in the olden days there was a lot of like parental authority and these ideas that like, it's my rules.
Like we did all these quote unquote power struggles with kids.
Whereas now it's like.
Yeah.
'cause I said, so that's my, that's my mindset, right? All the time.
Yeah.
So, and now it's like, actually, why not have that conversation? Right? Why not say let's talk about it now.
(13:06):
It doesn't mean I'm gonna say yes.
Right? My 4-year-old had kindergarten today.
His school has a strong rule that you can't wear floaters or crocs or anything like that.
You must wear sneakers or shoes.
And he wanted to wear his floaters.
He's been wearing them all summer long and.
In the end, you're gonna wear your sneakers.
You can choose which pair of sneakers, and you can choose to wear your flow first till we get to school and then change into your sneakers.
(13:29):
Right.
Before we get there, whatever you wanna do, those things we can do.
You are gonna wear the sneakers though, right? Right.
Particularly if it's a safety rule.
Right.
But you know, the part of like, let's discuss it.
Let's figure out a way to like, do you wanna wear the red ones? Okay.
You know, maybe I'll have to be flexible.
They don't quite match his outfit, but it's fine, like how can we soften the edges so that you are getting what you want, you're not really getting what you want.
(13:57):
You're, or you're getting some of what you want and they're getting some of what they're, they want, but at least they feel heard, right? Yeah.
Yeah.
The thing about parenting is that people really miss is that there's a lot of influencers on social media now who make it sound like if you don't do exactly what they say, you're harming your kids forever and it's just not true.
(14:20):
So there's a lot of like, I don't know if you saw this recent trend on TikTok where it's like posting this in case my kid tells a therapist one day that he had a bad childhood and then it's like a picture of the kid at Disneyland or on a water slide or you know what I mean? Things like that.
It's like, first of all, plenty of kids who had bad childhoods also have pictures at Disneyland.
The one does not negate the other.
Uh, yeah.
Right.
(14:40):
But second of all, I think it points to how judged parents feel right now.
Yeah.
God.
You know, like, it's like if you don't co-sleep with your baby, you're harming kids attachment forever.
If you don't feed them this kind of food, you're ruining it.
If you don't play with them for this amount of time, they're not gonna do well in school.
Chill.
That's not actually true.
(15:02):
Let's not algorithms like that, but that's not actually how humans operate.
Yeah, that is so, that's so toxic.
Yeah.
I mean, we put, so I, I'll speak for myself.
(15:22):
I have put such.
So much pressure on myself because of my childhood, because of my parents.
Yeah, because I, I'm, I still feel daily the, the effects of my parents.
(15:51):
Yeah.
So you don't want your damage to damage your kids.
Right.
That's your fear.
And I, and Right, but I've realized that I can't, it's not sustainable to, to put this amount of pressure on myself either.
Yeah.
It's not sustainable.
(16:11):
And so in the book, I actually lay out a way that not only is parenting healthy, it's healing because actually a.
Your inner child can't raise a child, right? So that little girl inside of you who's like, don't have fights in front of the kids, don't have fights.
I know what that feels like, right? That little inner girl cannot raise your two year olds, right? She cannot raise your twins.
Oh my God.
'cause she's a little girl, right? Yes.
(16:33):
Saw it in raising your twins, in raising your real world child.
You can heal that inner child.
There's an actual methodology, parent.
Is a event for our own healing of our trauma.
So you, you, you start out doing it for your kids, but you end up doing it for yourself, which by the way, you always deserved.
This is, you're incredible.
(16:55):
That's incredible.
I really like that it's resonating with you.
'cause it, it was, I, I know where you're at 'cause I was where you were at when I first became a mom and you know, back then I was so worried about like, I.
What will my flashbacks do to my baby? Like in terms of even just like when my baby was inside of me, like it's so hard for me to be inside of me with these flashbacks and panic attacks.
(17:17):
What's it like for an infant, right? Like swimming around with all of this, these hormones around her, right? And then it became, you know, how do I explain my.
Panic attacks to a toddler.
Like, like what words do I use? How do I, like, how do I even make this make sense for them? What if I have a flashback while I'm driving my kids somewhere? Right? So like, I had all these concerns and I went to the library to look for, you know, information and research.
(17:41):
'cause I'm a researcher and there was nothing because there was no research on this.
This was prior to nine 11 when I became a mom for the first time.
Nobody was talking about trauma.
So I had to figure it out for myself.
Oh my, you know.
And then, you know, many years later when I was trying to like propose this book and I went to like literary events and I spoke to agents.
(18:02):
There was this one agent and I told her about the book and she goes, this was before COVID.
She goes, oh, so you and eight other moms who have PTSD will read this book.
I don't think there's a market for this book.
Not most people had a great childhood.
And I was like, uh, yeah, I don't think so.
I just think you're wrong.
Yeah.
And I feel like then COVID happened and then everyone was a post-traumatic parent and suddenly I had four agents wanting to represent this book.
(18:26):
Like, and you know, like the shift was so fast.
'cause suddenly all parents were traumatized and were like, yeah.
Oh my goodness, what do I do with this? Yeah.
And like mental health was like suddenly it was acceptable to talk about needing mental health care.
Yeah.
That's crazy but you are not alone in this feeling of like, this must not be, my kids must not have the childhood I had in the book, I call that the metaphor I use is called the trauma app in your brain.
(18:55):
I believe that when we're traumatized, and this is just a metaphor, but it's really based on neuroscience research.
When we're traumatized, our brain develops this app.
It works just like an app would on your phone.
It has an algorithm and it gives you rules for feeling safe again.
So for me it was like if stressed then dissociate.
For you, it might be if potential conflict, don't have it, don't engage in conflict, keep things calm.
(19:18):
Maybe it's people, please.
Maybe it's deflect the conflict.
Whatever it is.
There's a rule, there's a if X, then Y, and you're nodding.
'cause this makes instinctive sense to you.
'cause you know when your brain says if x then y.
Then that becomes your default rule for life and it works well very often in your job.
It can work well even in a marriage prior to having kids.
(19:42):
It stops working when you have kids.
Yes.
Right? Yes.
Have, when you have kids, it just everything goes out the window.
Yeah.
It's a whole new ball game.
Yeah, so once you understand the trauma app and you understand what your algorithm tells you to do, if X, then y literally the way you would with an app in your phone, you deselect its permissions, you're like, for me, it would be like if stressed, stay present.
(20:10):
If stressed, ground yourself.
Do some breathing.
Stay in the moment.
Do not go into the pink cloud of dissociation.
Do not reach for your phone.
Instead, stay there.
For me, it was like if stressed with the kids, crouch down, get to their eye level and stay in it with them.
If stressed, if the kitchen if I'm, if I know I'm in a dissociative episode and like I'm not gonna be able to break it 'cause my brain is elsewhere, tell everybody, be like, I, my, like I'm not available for the next hour.
(20:36):
I'm focusing very intensely on something, so please don't interrupt me.
So then they know.
So I created new permissions.
Right.
It's such a powerful metaphor because we all understand how to deselect permissions from apps.
It's literally what you do with your brain.
You say, wait, I'm gonna stay present now.
My husband and I are gonna have this fight, and then I'm gonna explain what happened to my kids.
(20:57):
Like, we are gonna do this, and you'll see how then you grow.
Man, that scares me.
It's a lot.
It's a lot, and sometimes it means getting help from a therapist to learn how to do it like at first, or processing it so you're not holding so much trauma so that when you're actually deselecting permissions, it's not this huge traumatic experience that you've never unpacked and dealt with.
(21:26):
You've done some EMDR or some IFS or some other form, or some CBT around what happened, and a therapist has already helped you process it, you know? Right.
Sometimes the analogy I use is you know, those, um, you know that experiment where you throw Mentos into Diet Coke and then it explodes everywhere? Yeah.
So think of that bottle.
If it's full of Diet Coke and you drop in one Mentos giant explosion, if you pour most of the diet Coke out of the bottle and then you drop in a Mentos, it's gonna fizz up, but it's not gonna explode outta the bottle.
(21:57):
Mm-hmm.
So therapy is sort of the pouring the coke outta the bottle.
Yeah.
So I'm not carrying so much.
Yeah.
Right.
And it takes the weight, takes some of the weight or the significance desensitizes you a little bit so that if it comes up, it's not so devastating.
(22:28):
Yeah.
It's sort of.
It doesn't ruin my whole day.
Right.
I can come back from it.
But also, you have to believe in the power of repair.
Like you have to believe that just 'cause you messed up in front of your kids or with your kids, that doesn't mean that you can't go to them and say, that was difficult before.
(22:49):
I'm here now.
And, and fix it.
Oh.
Yeah.
Well, and the thing is that's what I miss.
That's what was missing really.
That's what was so traumatic when I was a child, is that there was never repair with me or between my parents, but there was never.
(23:22):
Communication there.
Everything was, you know, we don't talk about it like, you know, when my dad moved out, my dad left.
We could tell that he had moved out, but we didn't talk about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So how, why would you believe in repair if you never saw it? It's hard to believe in something that you've never witnessed.
(23:48):
Right, or you've never, you've never experienced for yourself.
When you've witnessed something and experienced it, then you're so much more able to handle it and be okay with it, right? Because you're like, oh, I know how to do this.
Like, yeah, this is a rupture, and then we're gonna repair it.
And I know how to do that.
Our brains are very efficient, kind of lazy, right? So one of the things your brain really likes to do is copy, paste whatever it can.
(24:14):
If your attachment system is also a copy paste, your brain's like, oh, I know what to do.
I'll do what my parents did.
So your brain is like, let's not engage in conflict, because I never saw how to engage in conflict, so I'm copy pasting.
It's very hard when you're like, I know I need to do this differently, but I never saw it so deep down, I don't believe in it.
Like deep down, I did not believe I could feel my stress and still parent in accordance with my values and not yell.
(24:42):
Right.
I did not believe that because I didn't have faith in myself that I could do that.
'cause I had never seen it.
Yeah.
So I had to learn it and you know what, it was possible, but I had to sort of take a blind leap into trying it.
Right.
Wow.
Oh, why is it that becoming a parent is so, I mean, it just like it.
(25:13):
It's like the ultimate test.
Yeah.
It's because our brains are very uniquely neuroplastic, particularly for moms.
The period of the, the technical term for that is matrescence, right? Yes.
The period when you become a parent, your brain is actually actively rewiring itself because it's a big learning curve.
How to parent.
(25:33):
Just keeping a little human alive is a very big learning curve.
Yeah.
So your brain is rewiring, but if you think about trauma therapy, you know what we're trying to do in trauma therapy.
We're trying to rewire your brain.
So doesn't it make sense to rewire your brain at a moment when your brain wants to rewire? That's the theory behind why do we wanna teach languages to kids when they're young? Because when you're young, your brain wants to learn new languages.
(25:57):
When you're older, it doesn't, right? Yeah.
So when you become a mom, your brain wants to rewire.
When we do trauma therapy, I'm trying to get you to rewire your brain.
So why not do it at a moment that the brain is already there and saying, Hey, rewire me.
My gosh, right? It's like the perfect time to heal.
I don't know why more people don't know this, that it's not only that your, that your damage won't damage your kids.
(26:22):
It's that parenting is the perfect time to heal, and it's just not, it's just not out there.
That's why I wrote the book, because.
There are so many post-traumatic parents who walk around with this awful sense of like, my damage is gonna damage the kids.
I'm gonna do this wrong.
I don't have a sense of how to parent.
I am messing up every single day and let me just save up enough money for their therapy, right? Like so many parents walk around and it feels so alone and shameful.
(26:47):
When the good news is opposite, not only is parenting the best time to heal, but in the end, your damage could become your superpower.
'cause your damage tells you what you value.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like if, if we could build what you value, what do you want your twins to know about you and your husband? Like what's the information you want them to know? What's a sense you want them to have? That we are caring, loving people and that we are kind and we care about others like we.
(27:30):
We take care of other people.
Okay.
We are not so sharing and service and kindness.
Yes.
Right.
So those are the goals.
And you know that probably because of your childhood, you know what you, you know that what I don't want is that what I do want is this.
So now that you know that, it's like, hmm, what would be the parenting practices I would need to do so that my kids know that we care about others, that we care about each other, and that we care about them? What would.
(27:58):
I need to do every day.
What would a parent who was demonstrating the sense of caring and resonance with others do every single day? And then it's so simple to then say, oh, that's what a parent who did that would do.
So I can do that, right? Yes.
And then it's just built, we call it the castle in the cloud, like that's the dream.
(28:21):
And then we just build the infrastructure, the staircase, to get to that castle.
Oh my gosh.
That's beautiful.
And really it's attainable.
It's very attainable.
That's so beau.
It's like focusing on what? What I want to do rather than what I don't want to do.
(28:45):
Right.
The do moves not the don't moves.
It's really hard to parent when you have a whole to-do list that you always have when you're a parent.
Right.
It's always like, you know, wash the soccer uniform and get the sneakers and get them, fill out the forms and you know, buy dinner or whatever.
And then if you also have this giant to don't list at the same time, that's really hard.
But if you turn your to don't list into a to-do list.
(29:06):
Yes.
You know, oh my gosh, what a great call to action, you know, like, that's such a great like way to turn this.
Energy into something.
(29:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, and I've done it with so many parents, like, and it's, it's so when people get it, it's so freeing because then you don't have to be afraid of your damage anymore.
Then it's about, oh, this is my superpower.
Let me embrace it.
God, I love that.
I'm so glad.
Oh my God, that's amazing.
(29:50):
I am actually gonna have to sign off in a minute because my patient's gonna show up any second.
I have a feeling, oh my God, thank you so much for doing this with me.
Sure.
We should do another one, or I need to finish your book and then we could definitely do another one.
You know, like a follow up.
(30:11):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Wow.
Um, I love how you're so willing to go into your own stuff and like how authentic you are about it.
You know, I think a lot of people are like, I'm not gonna tell people about my damage.
But it's really helpful when we share our struggles.
'cause then everyone's like, oh, I also have that.
(30:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like at this point it's just, who am I protecting? Who am I? You know? Yeah, and you, I mean, obviously you put it all into your book, which I really admire, and I think that's what we have to do to help other people.
(30:57):
Yeah.
I think that ultimately when we are the person we would've needed years ago, that is the most healing thing.
Yes.
Oh my God.
That's exactly it.
That's exactly it.
Not being afraid to say what would have helped you.
(31:21):
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Yeah.
And then like again, that's what transforms trauma into this superpower that then you're golden.
'cause it's like, I get this, I know this, I just had this, A mom said to me like, her kid has an anxiety disorder.
And she's like, oh no, it's probably my fault.
I'm so anxious.
I've given it to her.
And I'm like, mostly genetically.
(31:41):
And I don't know, nobody's invented the machine that lets you genetically edit your kids yet.
Right.
Chad CPT doesn't let you do that yet.
Right.
So I, I like.
But you're also the perfect person to help her cope with it because you know exactly what it's like to have tons of anxiety and be a little second grader, right? You get this from a deep level, so you're the perfect person to help her with it.
(32:04):
Look at it that way.
Yep.
That's so true.
That's totally true.
I can't wait to hear what you think of the rest of the book.
Yes.
I can't wait to keep, listen, I love that it, that you are narrating it because I love your voice.
(32:25):
Thank you.
I, I appreciate you saying that.
'cause it was a, it was a hard decision to make, whether or not I should narrate it.
I just feel like a book should be narrated by the author.
Like, I'm telling my story Me too.
But like, my agent was like, it's not the best use of your time.
Just hire a narrator.
It'll be much more efficient.
I'm very glad.
And I asked the post-traumatic parenting community, like on Instagram, like, do what should I do? And everybody voted.
(32:48):
Narrate yourself.
I'm so glad I did.
Yeah, because it's you.
It's who you are.
Yeah.
It's just, it's what makes you unique, what makes your, I mean, it's just, yeah.
No, I love it.
Thanks so much.
It's just validating that decision because, you know, it was an intense week, like nine to five every day in a recording booth.
(33:12):
It was not easy.
I'm not a professional voice actress, but I I, I'm very glad that I did it.
Like it does feel like the book is a conversation between me and the listener.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've felt like I knew you before getting on here and talking to you.
Yeah.
(33:32):
Yes.
I can't wait to pick this up again.
Okay.
Me too.
All right.
All right.
I'm gonna have to sign off 'cause I think she's knocking.
Oh gosh.
So everybody, welcome to How I Ally.
I'm Lucinda Koza and I have a wonderful, very colorful guest with me today.
I would love for you to introduce yourself, if you would, and give just a bit of a backstory.
(00:24):
Sure.
I'm Dr.
Robyn Koslowitz.
I am the author of Post-Traumatic Parenting, which is all about breaking the cycles that only almost broke us so that our damage doesn't damage our kids.
And I am a clinical child psychologist.
I have a practice in New Jersey.
I.
Mostly what I do is work with post-traumatic parents.
I really believe that nobody sets out to parent in a way that's inconsistent with their values.
(00:50):
It happens because our trauma set us up for it, and if we can just understand that, we get so much better.
So that's the basics backstory.
Ooh, so your book just came out, like just came out, right? Yeah.
So it's called Post-Traumatic Parenting.
(01:12):
Yeah, it's break the cycle, become the parent you always want it to be.
And it's available everywhere on Amazon, like wherever you get books.
I, so I just started listening on Audible and it's I just listened to your story, um, which is.
Wow.
(01:33):
Certainly traumatic for a child.
And the trauma of absence.
Yeah, that.
That phrase te tell.
Tell me more about that.
That was really powerful.
Yeah.
I think people make a huge mistake about trauma PE and people very often discount themselves as traumatized.
(01:55):
They, they look at their own story and they say something like, well, I was, you know, bullied in elementary school, but my friend's dad beat her.
So how can I call myself traumatized? Right.
Or, I, just had.
All of these lacks in my childhood.
'cause my parent was a functional alcoholic, so I kind of never had supportive parenting, but there was food on the table.
(02:18):
My husband grew up in true poverty.
So how can I call myself traumatized? Right? And that mistake really.
Impacts how we see trauma.
'cause we look at trauma as though if it's not something that would end up on an episode of Law and Order, if it's not like this crazy story, then you're not traumatized.
But the truth is, the details of what happened to you don't matter nearly as much as how it landed on your psyche and how it made you feel about yourself and the world.
(02:45):
The trauma of absence is something that people really have a hard time seeing, right? Because it's easy to see the trauma of presence.
I was in a car accident.
My story is a very dramatic story that people could say, oh yeah, that must have been difficult, right? Um, someone's assaulted, someone's in a bombing, right? Those are things that are like.
Yeah, we know this is traumatic, but someone coming home every single day and not knowing if she's gonna get a kind supportive parent or a really critical mean parent, like I said, 'cause the parent's a functional alcoholic or coming home and there's a sibling with a critical illness and the whole family is focused on that sibling.
(03:19):
So then there's never anyone there for the normal developmental needs that a kid might have.
That's what I would call the trauma of absence.
And that's much harder to notice 'cause we notice the big things.
Things that are on the headlines, but we don't always notice the Yeah.
That happened and then I came home and I had no one to tell.
That's just harder for our brain to mark.
(03:40):
Yes.
That's so true.
And then sometimes you don't even grasp that, like something like the quote unquote, normal.
Normally developing child actually feeling more neglected than the special needs child within a family.
(04:10):
That's something that doesn't, may not naturally occur to you, but it's totally real.
Yeah.
And I, what I, what we say is sometimes trauma is not about what happened to you, it's what didn't happen for you.
And it's such, it's so important.
'cause otherwise we gaslight ourselves and then we say, oh, I wasn't traumatized.
And here's the other side of that.
(04:32):
When you're parenting and like, you mean to do X, but y happens, right? I am gonna stay calm and then you yell, or I am gonna be present with my kid during this really stressful moment.
And then you space out, right? I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold firm to my no.
And then you give in.
And you didn't mean to, if you don't understand that it's not you, it's your trauma.
(04:53):
There's a reason you're doing that, and it's because your trauma taught you to, you're gonna blame yourself, right? And you're just gonna be like, I'm the worst person in the world who yells at a 4-year-old.
As opposed to, how did I learn this, right? Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, so I'm just gonna lay it on you.
I'm not asking for a session, a free session.
(05:16):
But yeah, so, well my parents divorced I am like, and I have 2-year-old twins.
I'm terrified of like any kind of fighting with my husband in front of them.
(05:38):
Like terrified.
Yeah.
Like I feel like it's just the worst thing that I could do.
Yeah.
Because I know, because I, you know the impact of that on yourself, so you are thinking, this is the worst thing ever.
(06:00):
If I ever fight with my husband and my kids see this, I remember what it felt like to watch my parents fight or to, to know that they were in conflict and they didn't get along, and I don't want that for my kids.
And that makes so much sense.
The problem is, of course, a relationship sometimes has friction.
It's not about not fighting, it's about how do you have a good, productive fight that moves the relationship forward.
(06:24):
So if you're so, in fact, think of people you never fight with, they're probably people you don't know very well.
Your close friends you've gotten into fights with.
Yes.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or at least passionate, talks disagreement.
Right, right.
So the, the, in the book, we call the profile that you likely fit into, not to diagnose you, 'cause it's not a diagnostic category, but we call that.
(06:48):
It's either the paralyzed or the perfectionist parent.
Those are those in either of those two subtypes very often come from a family that was high conflict.
Yes.
And what you're trying to do and what you're forgetting is that your kids are not you.
Your kids have you.
If you and your husband have a strong relationship.
(07:09):
And you know how to repair.
And even more crucially, when healthy couples fight.
The research shows this when healthy couples fight in front of their kids and they know how to manage conflict well, they allow their kids to also witness the resolution of the disagreement.
So they don't just like argue in front of the kids and then make up in their bedroom later that night? Yeah.
(07:30):
They say something to the kids, they might make up in their bedroom later that night, but the next day they say, you know how me and daddy both had really big feelings yesterday about whose turn it was to buy the milk and.
Why are we out of milk? So that was a silly problem that we had, and we figured it out.
And from now on, we're gonna whatever order the milk to be auto delivered, whatever the solution is.
(07:51):
Mm-hmm.
You know, and then if they say, I don't like it when you and daddy have, you know, yell at each other.
Okay, I hear that.
Yeah.
We don't like it either.
We're gonna work on managing our big feelings.
So you talk about the conflict and you show them that it was resolved.
Oh man.
That wow.
So you're modeling because they, because you, hmm.
(08:13):
Because you can't protect your kids.
From having conflict.
Yeah.
In their lives you can't, and then they'll grow up afraid of conflict.
And it's not conflict, that's the problem.
It's mismanaged conflict.
That's the problem.
Right.
If your parents had had good conflict, it wouldn't have been a problem if it would've been like a mechanism for making this decision wouldn't have a problem.
(08:35):
It's that they had destructive conflict that ultimately tore them apart, which may have been a good thing, right? Because staying together might have made more conflict, but you saw conflict as the worst possible thing.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's not conflict That must be avoided.
It's destructive conflict that must be avoided, you know? Right.
To be open about myself.
I, my trauma coping adaptation is dissociation.
(08:58):
When I am stressed out, I just space out and.
I always thought that was the best way to parent because then I never yelled at my kids.
And I'm actually a fellow twin mom, but my twins are adults now.
You know, they're in college and they, and one of my twins actually said to me like, mommy, where do you go when you go away behind your eyes? And then he started to cry.
(09:19):
He was 10 years old.
And he said, you know, you know, sometimes you're talking to me, but you're not there and I don't like it.
And I remember thinking like, I'm trying to protect you from my stress, because if I was there, I'd yell at you.
And in my mind, yelling was the worst possible thing that you could do to a child.
You know, like getting really on edge with them, right? Because I witnessed that in a very medically compromised home growing up I witnessed a lot of like emergencies and loudness and I wanted it to be calm and quiet.
(09:48):
So I thought I was protecting him, but I was actually harming him 'cause he didn't like it.
He was right.
I wasn't present.
So then I had to learn and I always say, you know, our kids are the map, the mirror, and the motivator.
Out of our trauma because it isn't until our kids that we're willing to change our trauma adaptation.
'cause I bet there are a lot of situations in your life where you manage conflict by just not having conflict and it works fine.
(10:12):
Yeah.
Yeah, but you know that if you love your husband, you have to sometimes have conflict with him.
And same because actually that's how relationships grow, right? It's rupture and repair.
We know the analogy of like building a muscle, right? That you, you the whole sensation of Charlie Hurst that you get when you like lift weights is that you're tearing the muscle so that it will then repair itself and grow stronger.
(10:35):
It's the same thing with relationships.
We tear it slightly with the, what do you mean? I thought you were buying the milk? No, I thought you were buying the milk.
We tear it slightly and then we fix it and the relationship goes stronger.
Right, that's how it is with friends, family, yourself, dealing with yourself.
(10:55):
Yeah.
I mean it's, it's painful to grow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think really well-managed conflict always grows relationships and we have to be able to have conflict with our kids.
Right? You're like, now you're, your twins are two, so you're still in the stage where you're like, you know you're Superman.
You know, you're like everything like, whoa mom.
(11:15):
She knows how to like do all these things and Right.
And eventually though they're gonna be teenagers.
And then you're like, there's gonna be conflict.
Already.
Now there's probably conflict, but it's probably the conflict where you're pretty sure you're right.
I don't wanna stop screen time.
Yeah, but you gotta, you know, I don't wanna put on my shoes.
Yeah, but it's hot outside and you're gonna burn your feet.
Like these are like easy to manage conflicts 'cause you know that you're doing the right thing.
(11:37):
It's when they're a.
In middle school and everyone in class has this or watches this and you don't think it's the right thing.
Like now no one's gonna be my friend 'cause I won't know what happened on the last episode of the show and I won't be able to tell my friends about it.
And, and I can't follow that person on TikTok and I don't know what he's doing.
And you made me commit social suicide where you're like, am I doing the right thing? Am I doing the wrong thing? And you have to be able to have that conflict.
(12:01):
Oh my gosh.
That sounds awful.
And yet when you can have that conflict and you can say to the kid, all right, let's figure this out.
Here's my concerns about that show.
Maybe we should watch it together because we can discuss some of the scarier parts or maybe not that show, that show No, but this show.
(12:22):
Yes.
Or that influencer not, but that this influencer.
Yeah.
Right.
Like and you can manage it.
The relationship gets stronger.
Yeah, because you're actually having these conversations that are important.
Very important.
Yeah.
And then they know that you are there to hear them out and you are gonna make things work for them.
(12:45):
And when, you know, I think in the olden days there was a lot of like parental authority and these ideas that like, it's my rules.
Like we did all these quote unquote power struggles with kids.
Whereas now it's like.
Yeah.
'cause I said, so that's my, that's my mindset, right? All the time.
Yeah.
So, and now it's like, actually, why not have that conversation? Right? Why not say let's talk about it now.
(13:06):
It doesn't mean I'm gonna say yes.
Right? My 4-year-old had kindergarten today.
His school has a strong rule that you can't wear floaters or crocs or anything like that.
You must wear sneakers or shoes.
And he wanted to wear his floaters.
He's been wearing them all summer long and.
In the end, you're gonna wear your sneakers.
You can choose which pair of sneakers, and you can choose to wear your flow first till we get to school and then change into your sneakers.
(13:29):
Right.
Before we get there, whatever you wanna do, those things we can do.
You are gonna wear the sneakers though, right? Right.
Particularly if it's a safety rule.
Right.
But you know, the part of like, let's discuss it.
Let's figure out a way to like, do you wanna wear the red ones? Okay.
You know, maybe I'll have to be flexible.
They don't quite match his outfit, but it's fine, like how can we soften the edges so that you are getting what you want, you're not really getting what you want.
(13:57):
You're, or you're getting some of what you want and they're getting some of what they're, they want, but at least they feel heard, right? Yeah.
Yeah.
The thing about parenting is that people really miss is that there's a lot of influencers on social media now who make it sound like if you don't do exactly what they say, you're harming your kids forever and it's just not true.
(14:20):
So there's a lot of like, I don't know if you saw this recent trend on TikTok where it's like posting this in case my kid tells a therapist one day that he had a bad childhood and then it's like a picture of the kid at Disneyland or on a water slide or you know what I mean? Things like that.
It's like, first of all, plenty of kids who had bad childhoods also have pictures at Disneyland.
The one does not negate the other.
Uh, yeah.
Right.
(14:40):
But second of all, I think it points to how judged parents feel right now.
Yeah.
God.
You know, like, it's like if you don't co-sleep with your baby, you're harming kids attachment forever.
If you don't feed them this kind of food, you're ruining it.
If you don't play with them for this amount of time, they're not gonna do well in school.
Chill.
That's not actually true.
(15:02):
Let's not algorithms like that, but that's not actually how humans operate.
Yeah, that is so, that's so toxic.
Yeah.
I mean, we put, so I, I'll speak for myself.
(15:22):
I have put such.
So much pressure on myself because of my childhood, because of my parents.
Yeah, because I, I'm, I still feel daily the, the effects of my parents.
(15:51):
Yeah.
So you don't want your damage to damage your kids.
Right.
That's your fear.
And I, and Right, but I've realized that I can't, it's not sustainable to, to put this amount of pressure on myself either.
Yeah.
It's not sustainable.
(16:11):
And so in the book, I actually lay out a way that not only is parenting healthy, it's healing because actually a.
Your inner child can't raise a child, right? So that little girl inside of you who's like, don't have fights in front of the kids, don't have fights.
I know what that feels like, right? That little inner girl cannot raise your two year olds, right? She cannot raise your twins.
Oh my God.
'cause she's a little girl, right? Yes.
(16:33):
Saw it in raising your twins, in raising your real world child.
You can heal that inner child.
There's an actual methodology, parent.
Is a event for our own healing of our trauma.
So you, you, you start out doing it for your kids, but you end up doing it for yourself, which by the way, you always deserved.
This is, you're incredible.
(16:55):
That's incredible.
I really like that it's resonating with you.
'cause it, it was, I, I know where you're at 'cause I was where you were at when I first became a mom and you know, back then I was so worried about like, I.
What will my flashbacks do to my baby? Like in terms of even just like when my baby was inside of me, like it's so hard for me to be inside of me with these flashbacks and panic attacks.
(17:17):
What's it like for an infant, right? Like swimming around with all of this, these hormones around her, right? And then it became, you know, how do I explain my.
Panic attacks to a toddler.
Like, like what words do I use? How do I, like, how do I even make this make sense for them? What if I have a flashback while I'm driving my kids somewhere? Right? So like, I had all these concerns and I went to the library to look for, you know, information and research.
(17:41):
'cause I'm a researcher and there was nothing because there was no research on this.
This was prior to nine 11 when I became a mom for the first time.
Nobody was talking about trauma.
So I had to figure it out for myself.
Oh my, you know.
And then, you know, many years later when I was trying to like propose this book and I went to like literary events and I spoke to agents.
(18:02):
There was this one agent and I told her about the book and she goes, this was before COVID.
She goes, oh, so you and eight other moms who have PTSD will read this book.
I don't think there's a market for this book.
Not most people had a great childhood.
And I was like, uh, yeah, I don't think so.
I just think you're wrong.
Yeah.
And I feel like then COVID happened and then everyone was a post-traumatic parent and suddenly I had four agents wanting to represent this book.
(18:26):
Like, and you know, like the shift was so fast.
'cause suddenly all parents were traumatized and were like, yeah.
Oh my goodness, what do I do with this? Yeah.
And like mental health was like suddenly it was acceptable to talk about needing mental health care.
Yeah.
That's crazy but you are not alone in this feeling of like, this must not be, my kids must not have the childhood I had in the book, I call that the metaphor I use is called the trauma app in your brain.
(18:55):
I believe that when we're traumatized, and this is just a metaphor, but it's really based on neuroscience research.
When we're traumatized, our brain develops this app.
It works just like an app would on your phone.
It has an algorithm and it gives you rules for feeling safe again.
So for me it was like if stressed then dissociate.
For you, it might be if potential conflict, don't have it, don't engage in conflict, keep things calm.
(19:18):
Maybe it's people, please.
Maybe it's deflect the conflict.
Whatever it is.
There's a rule, there's a if X, then Y, and you're nodding.
'cause this makes instinctive sense to you.
'cause you know when your brain says if x then y.
Then that becomes your default rule for life and it works well very often in your job.
It can work well even in a marriage prior to having kids.
(19:42):
It stops working when you have kids.
Yes.
Right? Yes.
Have, when you have kids, it just everything goes out the window.
Yeah.
It's a whole new ball game.
Yeah, so once you understand the trauma app and you understand what your algorithm tells you to do, if X, then y literally the way you would with an app in your phone, you deselect its permissions, you're like, for me, it would be like if stressed, stay present.
(20:10):
If stressed, ground yourself.
Do some breathing.
Stay in the moment.
Do not go into the pink cloud of dissociation.
Do not reach for your phone.
Instead, stay there.
For me, it was like if stressed with the kids, crouch down, get to their eye level and stay in it with them.
If stressed, if the kitchen if I'm, if I know I'm in a dissociative episode and like I'm not gonna be able to break it 'cause my brain is elsewhere, tell everybody, be like, I, my, like I'm not available for the next hour.
(20:36):
I'm focusing very intensely on something, so please don't interrupt me.
So then they know.
So I created new permissions.
Right.
It's such a powerful metaphor because we all understand how to deselect permissions from apps.
It's literally what you do with your brain.
You say, wait, I'm gonna stay present now.
My husband and I are gonna have this fight, and then I'm gonna explain what happened to my kids.
(20:57):
Like, we are gonna do this, and you'll see how then you grow.
Man, that scares me.
It's a lot.
It's a lot, and sometimes it means getting help from a therapist to learn how to do it like at first, or processing it so you're not holding so much trauma so that when you're actually deselecting permissions, it's not this huge traumatic experience that you've never unpacked and dealt with.
(21:26):
You've done some EMDR or some IFS or some other form, or some CBT around what happened, and a therapist has already helped you process it, you know? Right.
Sometimes the analogy I use is you know, those, um, you know that experiment where you throw Mentos into Diet Coke and then it explodes everywhere? Yeah.
So think of that bottle.
If it's full of Diet Coke and you drop in one Mentos giant explosion, if you pour most of the diet Coke out of the bottle and then you drop in a Mentos, it's gonna fizz up, but it's not gonna explode outta the bottle.
(21:57):
Mm-hmm.
So therapy is sort of the pouring the coke outta the bottle.
Yeah.
So I'm not carrying so much.
Yeah.
Right.
And it takes the weight, takes some of the weight or the significance desensitizes you a little bit so that if it comes up, it's not so devastating.
(22:28):
Yeah.
It's sort of.
It doesn't ruin my whole day.
Right.
I can come back from it.
But also, you have to believe in the power of repair.
Like you have to believe that just 'cause you messed up in front of your kids or with your kids, that doesn't mean that you can't go to them and say, that was difficult before.
(22:49):
I'm here now.
And, and fix it.
Oh.
Yeah.
Well, and the thing is that's what I miss.
That's what was missing really.
That's what was so traumatic when I was a child, is that there was never repair with me or between my parents, but there was never.
(23:22):
Communication there.
Everything was, you know, we don't talk about it like, you know, when my dad moved out, my dad left.
We could tell that he had moved out, but we didn't talk about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So how, why would you believe in repair if you never saw it? It's hard to believe in something that you've never witnessed.
(23:48):
Right, or you've never, you've never experienced for yourself.
When you've witnessed something and experienced it, then you're so much more able to handle it and be okay with it, right? Because you're like, oh, I know how to do this.
Like, yeah, this is a rupture, and then we're gonna repair it.
And I know how to do that.
Our brains are very efficient, kind of lazy, right? So one of the things your brain really likes to do is copy, paste whatever it can.
(24:14):
If your attachment system is also a copy paste, your brain's like, oh, I know what to do.
I'll do what my parents did.
So your brain is like, let's not engage in conflict, because I never saw how to engage in conflict, so I'm copy pasting.
It's very hard when you're like, I know I need to do this differently, but I never saw it so deep down, I don't believe in it.
Like deep down, I did not believe I could feel my stress and still parent in accordance with my values and not yell.
(24:42):
Right.
I did not believe that because I didn't have faith in myself that I could do that.
'cause I had never seen it.
Yeah.
So I had to learn it and you know what, it was possible, but I had to sort of take a blind leap into trying it.
Right.
Wow.
Oh, why is it that becoming a parent is so, I mean, it just like it.
(25:13):
It's like the ultimate test.
Yeah.
It's because our brains are very uniquely neuroplastic, particularly for moms.
The period of the, the technical term for that is matrescence, right? Yes.
The period when you become a parent, your brain is actually actively rewiring itself because it's a big learning curve.
How to parent.
(25:33):
Just keeping a little human alive is a very big learning curve.
Yeah.
So your brain is rewiring, but if you think about trauma therapy, you know what we're trying to do in trauma therapy.
We're trying to rewire your brain.
So doesn't it make sense to rewire your brain at a moment when your brain wants to rewire? That's the theory behind why do we wanna teach languages to kids when they're young? Because when you're young, your brain wants to learn new languages.
(25:57):
When you're older, it doesn't, right? Yeah.
So when you become a mom, your brain wants to rewire.
When we do trauma therapy, I'm trying to get you to rewire your brain.
So why not do it at a moment that the brain is already there and saying, Hey, rewire me.
My gosh, right? It's like the perfect time to heal.
I don't know why more people don't know this, that it's not only that your, that your damage won't damage your kids.
(26:22):
It's that parenting is the perfect time to heal, and it's just not, it's just not out there.
That's why I wrote the book, because.
There are so many post-traumatic parents who walk around with this awful sense of like, my damage is gonna damage the kids.
I'm gonna do this wrong.
I don't have a sense of how to parent.
I am messing up every single day and let me just save up enough money for their therapy, right? Like so many parents walk around and it feels so alone and shameful.
(26:47):
When the good news is opposite, not only is parenting the best time to heal, but in the end, your damage could become your superpower.
'cause your damage tells you what you value.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like if, if we could build what you value, what do you want your twins to know about you and your husband? Like what's the information you want them to know? What's a sense you want them to have? That we are caring, loving people and that we are kind and we care about others like we.
(27:30):
We take care of other people.
Okay.
We are not so sharing and service and kindness.
Yes.
Right.
So those are the goals.
And you know that probably because of your childhood, you know what you, you know that what I don't want is that what I do want is this.
So now that you know that, it's like, hmm, what would be the parenting practices I would need to do so that my kids know that we care about others, that we care about each other, and that we care about them? What would.
(27:58):
I need to do every day.
What would a parent who was demonstrating the sense of caring and resonance with others do every single day? And then it's so simple to then say, oh, that's what a parent who did that would do.
So I can do that, right? Yes.
And then it's just built, we call it the castle in the cloud, like that's the dream.
(28:21):
And then we just build the infrastructure, the staircase, to get to that castle.
Oh my gosh.
That's beautiful.
And really it's attainable.
It's very attainable.
That's so beau.
It's like focusing on what? What I want to do rather than what I don't want to do.
(28:45):
Right.
The do moves not the don't moves.
It's really hard to parent when you have a whole to-do list that you always have when you're a parent.
Right.
It's always like, you know, wash the soccer uniform and get the sneakers and get them, fill out the forms and you know, buy dinner or whatever.
And then if you also have this giant to don't list at the same time, that's really hard.
But if you turn your to don't list into a to-do list.
(29:06):
Yes.
You know, oh my gosh, what a great call to action, you know, like, that's such a great like way to turn this.
Energy into something.
(29:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, and I've done it with so many parents, like, and it's, it's so when people get it, it's so freeing because then you don't have to be afraid of your damage anymore.
Then it's about, oh, this is my superpower.
Let me embrace it.
God, I love that.
I'm so glad.
Oh my God, that's amazing.
(29:50):
I am actually gonna have to sign off in a minute because my patient's gonna show up any second.
I have a feeling, oh my God, thank you so much for doing this with me.
Sure.
We should do another one, or I need to finish your book and then we could definitely do another one.
You know, like a follow up.
(30:11):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Wow.
Um, I love how you're so willing to go into your own stuff and like how authentic you are about it.
You know, I think a lot of people are like, I'm not gonna tell people about my damage.
But it's really helpful when we share our struggles.
'cause then everyone's like, oh, I also have that.
(30:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like at this point it's just, who am I protecting? Who am I? You know? Yeah, and you, I mean, obviously you put it all into your book, which I really admire, and I think that's what we have to do to help other people.
(30:57):
Yeah.
I think that ultimately when we are the person we would've needed years ago, that is the most healing thing.
Yes.
Oh my God.
That's exactly it.
That's exactly it.
Not being afraid to say what would have helped you.
(31:21):
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Yeah.
And then like again, that's what transforms trauma into this superpower that then you're golden.
'cause it's like, I get this, I know this, I just had this, A mom said to me like, her kid has an anxiety disorder.
And she's like, oh no, it's probably my fault.
I'm so anxious.
I've given it to her.
And I'm like, mostly genetically.
(31:41):
And I don't know, nobody's invented the machine that lets you genetically edit your kids yet.
Right.
Chad CPT doesn't let you do that yet.
Right.
So I, I like.
But you're also the perfect person to help her cope with it because you know exactly what it's like to have tons of anxiety and be a little second grader, right? You get this from a deep level, so you're the perfect person to help her with it.
(32:04):
Look at it that way.
Yep.
That's so true.
That's totally true.
I can't wait to hear what you think of the rest of the book.
Yes.
I can't wait to keep, listen, I love that it, that you are narrating it because I love your voice.
(32:25):
Thank you.
I, I appreciate you saying that.
'cause it was a, it was a hard decision to make, whether or not I should narrate it.
I just feel like a book should be narrated by the author.
Like, I'm telling my story Me too.
But like, my agent was like, it's not the best use of your time.
Just hire a narrator.
It'll be much more efficient.
I'm very glad.
And I asked the post-traumatic parenting community, like on Instagram, like, do what should I do? And everybody voted.
(32:48):
Narrate yourself.
I'm so glad I did.
Yeah, because it's you.
It's who you are.
Yeah.
It's just, it's what makes you unique, what makes your, I mean, it's just, yeah.
No, I love it.
Thanks so much.
It's just validating that decision because, you know, it was an intense week, like nine to five every day in a recording booth.
(33:12):
It was not easy.
I'm not a professional voice actress, but I I, I'm very glad that I did it.
Like it does feel like the book is a conversation between me and the listener.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've felt like I knew you before getting on here and talking to you.
Yeah.
(33:32):
Yes.
I can't wait to pick this up again.
Okay.
Me too.
All right.
All right.
I'm gonna have to sign off 'cause I think she's knocking.
Oh gosh.
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