May 16, 2025 • 50 mins
In this deeply resonant episode of How I Ally, Lucinda Koza is joined by Navi Hughes—a board-certified psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner, therapist, and emotional intelligence coach. Navi opens up about her journey from teen motherhood and widowhood to becoming a fierce advocate for mental health and emotional literacy.
Together, they explore:
- How emotional intelligence transforms parenting, relationships, and self-worth
- The dangers of ego-led parenting and the myth of the “mini-me”
- Raising children—especially neurodivergent children—with emotional safety instead of control
- What true empowerment looks like (and how to teach it to your kids)
- Why Navi created an emotional intelligence blueprint for those navigating trauma, overwhelm, or autism
- How stigma and fear are setting back progress in autism diagnoses and care
- The value of saying “I don’t know,” even as a parent or professional
This conversation is an emotional masterclass—equal parts grounding and galvanizing. Whether you’re a parent, practitioner, or simply someone who wants to live with more clarity, this episode is a must-listen.
Guest:
Navi Hughes
Board-Certified Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner, Emotional Intelligence Coach
Instagram: @thenavihughes
Connect with Lucinda Koza:
Instagram: @lucindarogerskoza
Website: www.i-ally.com
Resources Mentioned:
- Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs
- Myers-Briggs Personality Indicator
- Navi’s Emotional Intelligence Program (coming soon to her website)
Takeaways:
💡 Emotional intelligence isn’t a trend—it’s the foundation for peace, presence, and power.
🧠 Our children don’t need us to be perfect—they need us to be emotionally aware.
❤️ Real connection happens when we show up without an agenda.
Subscribe + Review:
If this episode moved you, please subscribe, rate, and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your support helps How I Ally reach more people who are navigating big feelings, big changes, and big growth.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
To how I ally, I'm Lucinda Koza and I'm here with an incredible guest who is going to introduce herself, if you will.
Hi, my name is Navi Hughes.
I'm a board certified child, adolescent, and adult psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner therapist, and emotional intelligence coach.
(00:26):
Wow.
And can you give a little bit of a backstory obviously I did your interview in Authority magazine but give us a little bit of a backstory, if you will, for our listeners.
Yeah, so I'm an immigrant.
(00:48):
Moved to the United States when I was about nine or 10 as far as my memory can serve.
And then we moved to Oklahoma, but I've been living in Texas forever and I'm a mental health provider.
I.
I would always say the mental health profession chose me.
(01:08):
I didn't really choose it because of my family.
I guess I found out later on that I'm so passionate about it because all these mental health issues existed in my family and I was deprived of what you would like for kids to have in today's world, like what my kids have.
So I'm really passionate about mental health.
(01:29):
I also do coaching, therapy and coaching.
It's a hybrid model to move, help people move past the trauma.
So it's not just talk.
How can we move through it and take action? So that's where the coaching comes in.
Personally, I'm a mom, a wife.
We have a blended family of five.
I have been a widow and I got remarried.
(01:52):
So we have a blended family and.
It's been quite an amazing experience.
Some days are great, and then some days we just get through 'em, but at the end of it all it works out.
Yeah.
Wow.
Sounds like there are a lot of chapters in your.
(02:18):
Story different lives lived.
Absolutely.
When you work in this industry of content creation and what do you want your brand to look like and what do you wanna be known for? They, you're supposed to pick these stories and I'm like, I have too many there's just too many chapters and it's not that.
(02:41):
I want to cater to everybody.
And it's not like this thing that I just need to have to be everything to be all.
But I have gone through it all.
So it is really tough, like to, Hey, I wanna be this person or I wanna be that person.
I've been a teen mom, I've been an immigrant a mental health provider, a widow, a bl blended family bonus mom.
(03:04):
So there's just a lot of things, right? So it's difficult.
To pick that chapter and be like, this is the most amazing chapter that made the difference, and that is the hardest thing for me.
I don't know when the turning point was because I've closed so many chapters and reinvented myself to each chapter.
(03:26):
There's like micro turning points in each journey.
I recognize that so much.
I feel like the exact same way.
Like I told you I went to SMU like that, like I lived in Dallas for five years did that actually happen? Who was that? Was that me? Like what? It's weird.
(03:53):
A lot of that is our brain protects ourselves, puts things into different chapters.
So many people that go to college are struggling in a different type of, environment than adults and children and, but they all have in common some.
If there's a deep experience or a painful one, we try to, like your brain just tries to pack it up, package it up in a nice little box and put it away.
(04:19):
And then when you're looking back at it, every time that story comes up or your brain re-edits it, or it's depending on what mood you're in for the day or it gets lost in there and packaged and it's so hard to be objective when you've been through so much.
Yeah, I was just thinking the other day about emotional clutter.
(04:46):
I feel like that resonates with you absolutely there.
And that is why I found a tool.
I made a tool.
My patients needed the tool.
In fact, it was one of my patients.
He said, why don't you are so great at doing this concept.
Why don't you just teach emotional intelligence? And this is a tech guy telling me to put like something together so my patients could have a tool outside of therapy or being on one-on-one with me.
(05:14):
So I created a program and it's, I guess you could think of a blueprint or new language to approach emotional intelligence.
We have all these tools, but really we're reaching everywhere.
We're not supposed to be like, we need to look within us.
The answers lie there.
I want people to ha need less therapy.
(05:37):
I want people to need less coaching.
I want people to need less meds.
So how do you do that? You focus in regulating yourself.
You pick up on your emotions, your sensory experiences.
You tune into your body and you make decisions that are grounded towards like you.
(05:57):
What you need and not what anyone else is telling you.
That essentially is building that level of emotional intelligence.
People that have great emotional intelligence are harder to manipulate.
They just know their truth and I bet they're great parents.
It is just, that just occurs to me.
(06:21):
I don't know.
Yeah, absolutely.
I would.
I would think of that.
They lead by example because to be an emotionally intelligent person, you have to tune into your emotions.
You have to be able to pause, we all experience anger, but are you able to recognize the anger? Are you able to pause in that moment? Are you able to regulate your emotions so you don't transfer that energy? I.
(06:49):
Into your child, right? So it's stopping yourself without judgment and getting feedback from your child.
So meaning you might have to experience somewhat of an ego death and make it not all about you, right? So people from our generation have a hard time doing that because everything is about the ego, or you should respect me or you should do this.
(07:14):
And what about me, and.
She's mini me and he's mini me.
It's really not about me.
It's about that child feeling empowered.
And that's what people with high level emotional intelligence know.
Like you want your child to be empowered and need you less.
(07:35):
The problem is people wanna be needed.
So it's me.
That's how it's like some parents try to control the narrative, whether intentionally or not they do it.
Oh my God, you just blew my mind completely.
The mini me, I have twins, a girl and a boy.
(07:58):
Like I recognize too much truth in that, in what you said.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah, and I used to be.
I used to practice the same way because that's what my parents taught me.
Be more like me.
(08:19):
Even though you know you have these things, apple doesn't fall from the tree and all that stuff.
I get it.
You are part of your environment, but you don't need to practice what your parents practice.
You don't need to believe what your parents believe.
You're supposed to grow beyond that as your environment changes, why would I possess the same beliefs? In 2025 and from the 1980s when we're not going through the same struggles, like it doesn't make sense.
(08:49):
You have to go beyond those beliefs.
And beliefs are not values, right? We all have a moral compass.
Beliefs are just everyday things like, can I do this? Am I good at that? Just little things.
Those are little beliefs they can either break you or make you like.
Most people experience limited beliefs.
And they feed themselves that story because we're wired to, it's easier for our brain to protect us like that 'cause we're scared of change.
(09:18):
But you have to go beyond those beliefs to reach a level of self-actualization, which, if you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, that's really what we're all trying to get to from the basic to the top.
This is like going to church.
This is oh, you're everyone needs to know this, and we're not taught, maybe the younger generations are doing better I, or we're trying to do better for them.
(09:55):
But I was not taught any of this.
I feel like emotional intelligence should be taught in like kindergarten.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
This is why I created this emotional literacy program.
So you think about iq, you have like science, math, reading.
(10:16):
You think about emotional intelligence.
Most people can't tell you what makes it up, right? It's, I didn't know it.
I had to study it and get all these pieces together, define it, and find out like, how can it help my people in psychiatry that don't know what they're feeling? Or just, here's your medication.
Oh, I felt angry yesterday.
Here's your medication, but you don't know why you felt angry.
(10:38):
Maybe you could have paused.
Maybe you could have done all these skills, but you don't know why you feel when you feel it.
How to feel it.
So you just keep going and going.
And then when you become dysfunctional or your environment's a stressor or some genetics get, unlocked, you start developing these disorders like, have major episodes.
(11:01):
Or if you have bipolar disorder, you're more likely to have flareups if you cannot regulate that stress.
So we don't really have a preventative way of psychiatry.
This was my bridge, just to educate you so you can have less flareups, you can prevent certain things and just have a good quality of life just by tuning into your mind and body and learning how the two work together.
(11:30):
Wow.
Wow.
So right there isn't a preventative.
Technique that is taught in traditional therapy or psychiatry.
So that's like revolutionary.
(11:54):
I've not, I don't think I've even thought about it that way.
I'm excited to share it because the moment I've been putting it all together and it was really how do I reduce, like I, my goal.
Is not keeping people in therapy or, always if they don't want meds.
My goal is to give them the best quality of life no matter what it takes.
(12:17):
That's the goal.
Can you smile when you're hanging out with your family? Can you go home with a smile after work? Can you embrace that? That kiss or that moment with your child without pushing them off? Can you be present? That's the goal, right? So how do I do that when.
Also giving you space to need me less and regulate you more like yourself more.
(12:42):
When we get so overwhelmed, we quickly jump on our phone.
Hey, so and so said The drive through pissed me off.
So and so said something in the boardroom that I didn't like.
My husband didn't feed the kids the right food.
I'm pissed.
So you're constantly in this battle of texting everyone all day, like just venting here and there.
(13:02):
And it doesn't mean you can't vent, it just means that need to constantly vent, vent, vent because you can't regulate your nervous system.
That was happening also in my life with my kid who has autism, but also with my patients.
I'm like, there's gotta be a way how I can help you outside of therapy with real tools.
(13:24):
Real definition, so you understand what self-awareness is.
You understand what motivation and resilience is.
You understand what situational awareness is so you can solve your problems.
That is my goal for most patients that I have, excuse me, that I have it, is to empower you.
(13:45):
And in the same way we should empower our children.
We don't want reliant, codependent humans.
You want interdependent humans that help each other out, but can still survive and thrive on their own.
Yes.
Yeah.
(14:05):
Yeah.
Like our children, especially a child who has autism, there's a lot of thought that goes into.
I'm not gonna be around someday, and you need to thrive and have the best life possible without me.
(14:40):
Yeah, those words are really hard to say, you know it's reality.
It.
And then either you can approach it strategically with emotional intelligence and just increasing your emotional literacy.
Or you can be hyper reactive and making hyper make or create a hyper independent child, which is.
(15:05):
Surviving through trauma, right? So you have to make the call of, are we gonna handle this strategically? I know because I've been on both sides.
Each child got a different mother.
My oldest one jokes around with me, why aren't you like that? I'm like, you don't want me to be the same mom I was 18 years ago.
(15:27):
I need to change as a human.
That's what really sets us apart is you leveling up.
If I'm the same person I was 20 years ago, there's a problem.
So I had to create, with my first one, I could tell my first child, she has a sense of being hyper independent and I know what I did.
(15:50):
I know it's also.
Great for her, but not great when she needs to verbalize certain emotions or get her feelings out.
The eldest child syndrome, I'll fake it till I make it.
I'm fine.
Where I have my baby, we are learning certain things and this kid is writing me.
(16:11):
Letters to, Hey, you're going to jail today, or, I don't love you, or, here, I'm mad at you.
I'm writing you this angry note.
So how do you work with that child that has autism? You just have to let your ego die.
When you get feedback like that, and I know he doesn't mean it, but it's allowing him to express those feelings.
(16:33):
A lot of parents don't understand because they want the con.
Control over the child's development.
But if you allow them to be, they develop the way they need to, right? By guiding them and working with them, regulating and not always being a rush to shut them down or fix their behavior.
(16:53):
'cause they're really not broken.
They're not broken.
They just need to be able to understand themselves and heal on their own.
It seems, it's it's like hard enough with any child, right? Like you said, and then, it's just a whole new set of, I was gonna say rules, but there are no rules.
(17:20):
There's no although you have.
It created a guidebook.
It feels like there's no guidebook.
Yes.
And that is the exact language I have used on my website is this is the blueprint that no one gave you.
This is the roadmap, like the language around emotional intelligence.
(17:44):
Because when you're reaching for all these things, and maybe you're playing mental gymnastics, Hey, I gotta write for.
An hour to get all these thoughts out.
I have to go to the gym to get these thoughts out and I have to cold plunge or I have to meditate, and it just, how much time is that taking up outta your day? If you wanna be productive you want to write, you wanna do your podcast.
(18:07):
If you're spending all this time just to muster up the energy, to declutter your brain hours and hours you've got all these tools people are telling you to be.
Use, but you've missed the biggest tool, which is you, your mind and body, and being able to connect that knowing what you feel and moving through it and still getting your work done, and not sitting through hours of therapy in my office or with a therapist.
(18:34):
I've had patients say to me, I've been in therapy 10 years and I have not had this framed this way, or I would've taken action.
And that they live with shame, regret, guilt, and it is really, I haven't done anything miraculous that doesn't exist.
It's just, I would say it's just a bunch of research and lived experience and from my patients, like what they need.
(19:08):
So it's not like this brand new.
Thing that you know, is so innovative.
It is just trying to put everybody's pieces together of what they need.
Giving it a definition.
People get confused when we can't define things.
That's why we have to individually define things too, right? What does joy mean to you? Might not be, or does joy mean to me? And I'm always questioning that for my clients.
(19:32):
What does this mean to you? 'cause if you tell me, like I'm successful.
What does success mean to you? And that's how you know, I usually get people to tell me what does it mean? So I gave a definition for each one and then gave a strategy and a tool to implement each one.
(19:56):
And then you can define how this looks like in your life.
All I can do is give you examples, but everyone looks different.
And in a sense also on the opposite side, we're all human, so we go through similar struggles.
We all experience these basic emotions that we turn into big feelings, and some of us let it control our day.
(20:24):
And not saying, I don't, I'm not saying we don't ever, it's just your ability to recover and bounce back from.
That emotional overwhelm.
Yeah.
It seems the, I am, I grew up in South Carolina and in the south you do not talk about any of this.
(20:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's just I get you, you probably can feel that in Fort Worth or anywhere.
Yeah.
So we had hope the mental health community was making some headway.
(21:16):
Our research for psychiatry.
Is when you compare it to other fields, it's so behind and we're doing a disservice to others by not, keeping up with the times, having more research, but that means more funding.
That means more people willing to care enough for those efforts.
(21:37):
And my goal has always been to destigmatize mental health.
But after that goal, I'm like, no, we don't wanna just destigmatize it.
We wanna make it mainstream.
We want it to be.
You know the word mental health check-ins, just like you get your physical, you should get a mental health check-in.
Are you okay? Because your eq, your emotional intelligence, drives most of your decisions.
(22:04):
It is seen.
It is actually used in marketing, content creation, journalism, emotional intelligence is used everywhere in sales in your business.
Building relationships with your spouse, your family.
It is everywhere.
It's just how we define it so you can utilize it.
And going back is, yes, we do lack it.
(22:26):
This is why I created the gap.
I was making headway.
I felt like we were as a community.
And now, with recent funding and all this cutbacks, it's just with all the research cutbacks, it's been very.
I don't know.
I, some days I try to not get so hopeless about it, and those are the days I have to, put my pants on and do this whole self-talk of you've made it so far, we still have to keep going.
(22:58):
If you don't keep going, what does the alternative look like? You still have to push this mental health agenda.
If not, we're gonna be sitting in the 18 hundreds again and.
We're living like we're in the 1980s right now, but it is 2025.
And if you look at other countries, they're living like they're in the 2050s.
(23:21):
I'm like, what are we doing? We are going back, especially now towards autism.
Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder.
And I have clients.
And I have therapists, I'll start with the clients that feel unseen un hardd, because now you, they were being validated.
(23:48):
They had some criteria, some patterns that they could learn about their brain.
It was nice to fit in and to know something about yourself.
But now we have therapists.
I had a client the other day, their therapist told them, Hey.
I don't think it's a good idea for you to have the diagnosis, autism, and I'm like, what are we doing? Are we just not gonna diagnose with that anymore because of everything that's going on the climate? And I'm just like, oh my gosh, this is such a disservice.
(24:18):
Oh, you know how much courage it takes for someone to come ask for help.
And now you're saying, you know what? Let's just not call it autism.
I'm supposed to be empowering you as a mental health.
A professional of this is you accept it, but if you have to hide that part of you, then am I setting the right example? Oh my God.
(24:42):
Wow.
Okay.
And that is the dilemma we're seeing and I've seen it.
People now are scared to go get neuropsych evals.
They're scared.
One, it's mental health professionals that are also scared that are pushing this agenda.
And like I said, I'm in the south and now it's oh, you know when you, back in the day, if something happened to you, you were assaulted, you don't talk about it.
(25:04):
Because people might think this way, right? Your voice is silenced.
Because we don't want, we don't want that kind of name on the family.
So now the same thing is happening with autism, and it is really sad.
We don't want you to be labeled autistic because dah.
Now you're asking someone to hide a part of them and forcing them to act a certain way because you naturally are gonna reinforce what society wants.
(25:33):
'cause you've already.
Taken that type of validation away from your child.
Oh my God, this is this is really upsetting.
Yeah, It, when I found that out, I had to like, not let it affect my patients and, but I had to empower her and let her know that I don't necessarily.
(25:55):
Agree, but there's a fear, right? Especially with children.
You put the fear, you tell them something, and you activate that fight or flight, especially if you have autism, right? It's you are so sensitive to your environment.
People think that kids with autism don't feel anything.
In fact, they are the most empathic people.
(26:18):
They feel everything.
They just, they're a good judge of character.
They.
Take all these senses and they're watching you.
They're watching your nonverbals and their energy.
Their nervous system is just filling up with that.
So if you create fear, they're gonna feel more of that.
If you create safety, they will accept the safety, calm their nervous system down.
(26:41):
So you are literally hindering treatment by putting in fear as part of the treatment plan.
It bad, but like you said, like you have to keep going.
Like you, you have to keep you affecting the people that are your patients or you, you just have to, because if you don't, then.
(27:08):
There's no hope really.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I've had feedback from even family or, it's like, why put your child's business out there? Or why put your business out there? And it's not because I want to, it's not because I'm just this great, vulnerable person.
(27:30):
It takes a lot of courage.
I have, I feel like there's a calling, like I just cannot stop.
And I do try.
I'm just like, I do try because some days you're working against the grain with all the news and everything going on.
You're just, especially in my field, right? Most people try to protect their brands or assets their money, or they don't wanna be involved in this.
(27:54):
What makes it hard for me is I am in the mental health space.
So if I don't talk about it, who else is gonna talk about it? Everyone's like really scared of how is it gonna affect my bottom line? How's it gonna affect my networking? How's it gonna affect my launch if I talk about these things? But I feel like I have to.
(28:15):
To live in my truth.
It's a sample that I'm setting for my clients.
So I guess in that way I'm not against anyone, but I am for mental health.
I am for those values that we need, the being heard, being seen, raising emotionally mature humans.
(28:44):
We are still facing a crisis of a adults or kids.
We are facing a crisis of kids in adult bodies that haven't been seen, haven't been heard, haven't been validated, and it's just like spreading like wildfire of who gets the most attention.
(29:04):
Me, and forget everyone else.
And it is an epidemic on its own.
And like we see you, we hear you.
People that are emotionally in intelligent really cannot be fooled by that.
The divide and conquer method, the fear method doesn't work because we can feel our emotions.
We understand and we understand the manipulative tactics because part of this.
(29:30):
Part of having some form of emotional intelligence, and I'm not saying you have really high EQ for doing this, is dark psychology is fear based motivation, which you have seen it over, I don't know, the last two, 3000 years.
If I put a fear in you, you're likely to respond, right? It's gonna cloud your judgment.
(29:53):
You're going to, you're gonna go right into survival mode, and that's what people want in.
They want you in survival mode.
So you can't think, you can't get creative, you can't have these solutions, so you don't create that community, that new community that you might need.
You might just hold on to the old community that was familiar, or you might be scared of losing that community, but sometimes you have to lose those certain beliefs so you can stay in touch with those values.
(30:27):
So you're not living in two different places.
A lot of people here, they're very fearful, so they're doing one thing and saying another behind the scenes.
I know because they're in my office, so they're playing.
They're like two different personalities with no personality disorder and not bipolar, but it's just they have to be a certain way here in a certain way at work or with their family.
(30:56):
And it's just sad because you lose who you are and you burn out so much faster when you have to live a life that you're just pretending.
And that's where you see like suicide.
Yes.
So you don't wanna, classify certain things or label or misspeak.
(31:20):
'cause I sometimes misspeak.
So let me be back then.
When emotions are suppressed, kids' opinions are suppressed, or you just feel so lonely, your suicide rates are gonna be higher.
Y literally, people are suffering in silence because you've asked them to.
(31:43):
You don't wanna acknowledge their depression.
You don't wanna acknowledge their beliefs or their values because you're I don't know, scared to losing.
What was, I don't know, I guess great back then, but it's, again, it's just.
An emotion attached to that old story.
(32:03):
People were suffering back then.
So why would we wanna model our future behaviors from the back wind mentality? It's just there for the America.
They want, not for the entire America, it's for the people that they want and.
(32:24):
We're doing something right, doing something, whatever that something is.
It is, again, just to divide, conquer.
We've been using this method for such a long time, divide and conquer by instilling fear, and people fall for it right after time.
And that's why I encourage people to find their community so they're not defeated into.
(32:49):
That fear, which is why I told you I am moving.
And I do have patients that, that are not like that, but they're surrounded by people like that, so they really can't thrive because you're so busy being bogged down, right from fighting the things rather than making a huge difference because you're just.
(33:18):
Spend your time in battle.
And sometimes I feel like that too, like with my mental health mantra, I just, oh, it's just a quirk.
It's not real.
Everybody gets depressed and you just need to have more gratitude.
So it's like, how do you fight these everyday scenarios? And there's this link that's missing.
I'm like, okay, is this is not growth.
(33:40):
I.
This is just me fighting with you on a day-to-day basis.
And then there are people that want to move towards that, and I love them for that because I have helped so many.
Even if you could just give me some openness, just a little bit of a peek, a glimmer, so where you could let the light in.
(34:00):
I'll take that.
Yeah, but when you're surrounded by everything that's telling you this is not real, none of this is real.
It's just, it's disheartening.
And the funny thing is you can see it through SI science.
You can see it through brain scans, you can see it respond to treatments.
(34:25):
Hey, I gave you this medication, and all of a sudden you're a productive human being.
You didn't lack willpower.
You just needed help.
Now you like I have clients telling me, man, I feel like such a better person.
Why did I wait so long to get help? I know exactly why you waited 20 years because your family guilted you and shamed you for it.
(34:45):
So it's like you're losing time and energy being in a bubble where you're not accepted.
It's like when you're like, I'm from the slums of India, and if you stay in that slum and you stay in that gutter, you can't really, you can't expand, you can't grow.
You're gonna stay stuck there.
(35:06):
But if you get out of it, maybe you come back and save more people, but you have to save yourself first.
That's right.
You have to.
Put on the oxygen mask.
Yeah.
Before you assist others.
Yeah.
And I hope to make those kind of revolutionary changes.
Hope to get more empowerment, more people on board so we can move in the right direction of empowerment.
(35:34):
Like people toss this word around all the time, but empowerment is really getting you so confident.
You can make your own decisions, who you are, you know what you wanna be.
If not, you will figure it out and you will let go of what no longer serves you.
That is empowerment.
(35:54):
That's a good definition.
I just wish, people knew more and that's why I'm so into defining things because I was the kid, you just said these words to, I'm like, what does that really mean? I studied coming from India to here.
I dealt with, I don't know what she's saying.
Is she being mean? Is she teasing me? Why is she so sarcastic? I just don't understand.
(36:19):
And when there wasn't a definition for something, I just struggled because to me, certain things mean different, like very different things from what they might mean to someone else, which is why when I write content or blog, I ask my husband does this.
Is this the same meaning like to you, what it means to me, like that first pass test.
(36:41):
Because to me it just, it means everything.
It means what I want it to mean, but to the other person, it does not.
So it's the reason I started defining things.
And that's actually, that, that's a, that is a.
Value of mine that I think about a lot is not making assumptions about your audience or who you're talking to.
(37:11):
Like assuming that they know what the hell I'm talking about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe they've never heard this one word before, yeah.
And.
I constantly check in and ask questions like, does it, does this resonate with you? Or have them explain, because a confused mind can't make good decisions, so we're just lost in conversation rather than saying, like our parents used to tell us, oh, you should know.
(37:44):
Oh, you should know this, or You should know that there aren't any shouldn'ts.
You weren't born out of the womb knowing everything.
You learn it.
And we should feel even at our age, whatever our age is, we should feel unafraid to say that we don't know something.
(38:06):
So I was a bedside nurse and your physicians residents, everybody's rounding at 7:00 AM in the morning.
They just expect you to know these patients expect you to know you just got to work like 20 minutes ago and the call lights are going off.
And then there was a sense of, you're stupid if you don't know your patient.
(38:29):
I haven't even seen them.
And then one, one of the nurse practitioners, she rounded with one of these, the head cardiologist that day, and he asked her this question and she just said, I don't know.
And to me that was so empowering.
I'm like, she could just say that.
(38:50):
That was her truth.
So why couldn't I say it? I don't know.
And that was the first time in the medical world I've seen someone just accept it because he didn't give her hell and she was just honest.
And that was a moment for me.
I took it, but I'm like, you just say you don't know like that.
(39:11):
It's okay not to know.
Give a check.
She's this fear of being wrong all the time.
Will you? You are more wrong if you don't go check and go check the details.
Right up then you're definitely wrong.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because in the medical world, lies can hurt a patient.
(39:33):
I started to do that as a parent, like with my husband, I used to feel like I always had to have the answer to, something like, do they have clean socks? Or yeah.
But if I don't know I'm not gonna take on that burden of making up some kind of information or some kind of reason why I don't have the information.
(39:59):
I'm just gonna say straight up, I don't know.
Yeah.
And there's no like story attached to that.
Like it's just a fact, I don't know.
Yes.
And and if it's something you really truly care about, you can say, I don't know, but I'll find out and get back to you.
There you go.
(40:21):
Yeah.
There's this you had mentioned like this bias earlier.
Of not wanting to have a bias or put people in a category, just being more curious.
And it's interesting because I, over the years, have looked at why don't I go, like, why am I not prepared? Why am I not a perfectionist? Cindy over there, she knew everything on the itinerary.
(40:49):
Everyone, she checked their background, she knows where they work.
She read their resume and she showed up ready.
And I was never that kind of person.
And I did this personality test and I don't know if you've ever heard of it.
It's Myers Brigg Briggs, MBTI.
(41:11):
So I had E-N-F-P-A, ENFP, whatever.
I was intuitive.
So I'm linking back.
I'm like, why am I never prepared for any of this? Like conference after conference or just meetings.
And I realized I just like to meet humans where they're at.
(41:36):
I don't need to know your resume.
I don't need to know you have a million followers.
I don't need to know what can I get from you? I don't need to know how you can help me.
I just need to know the human side of you.
And I feel like a lot of us have this agenda to meet, agenda to execute.
(41:59):
I've seen it time and time again.
And when you go into this influencer world or content creation or just.
Networking in general.
Everyone has an agenda and I just thought that approach was not authentic to me and that's maybe why I don't wanna prepare.
(42:20):
I don't wanna go look at your bio, I just wanna know you and I have, looked silly 'cause people have called me silly.
Oh, you don't know so and so no, I'm just meeting 'em where they're at like the other day.
We were at a conference and we were at a conference in Florida.
I had no idea.
The person in front of me that was buying me dinner was gonna be on the Mel Robbins podcast.
(42:45):
I had no idea.
I just got to sit with her and listen to her story and just connect like I had no idea, and I'm okay with that. 461 00:42:52,863.5645161 --> 00:43:03,692.2741935 And then you gave her the opportunity? You gave that person the opportunity to have an authentic conversation. 462 00:43:05,312.2741935 --> 00:43:13,52.2741935 And that's such a gift because normally that person is probably just dealing with people who have agendas. 463 00:43:15,422.2741935 --> 00:43:15,632.2741935 Yes. 464 00:43:15,632.2741935 --> 00:43:15,872.2741935 And I. 465 00:43:16,752.2741935 --> 00:43:22,862.2741935 With emotional intelligence, some people teach tactics of getting to know them. 466 00:43:22,862.2741935 --> 00:43:30,122.2741935 Like where do they need help? What are their problems? What are you gonna help 'em with? And it is just, it's very superficial. 467 00:43:30,122.2741935 --> 00:43:38,582.2741935 And now we put like a strategy to manipulate towards our agenda rather than a strategy to connect. 468 00:43:39,242.2741935 --> 00:43:41,582.2741935 I see it everywhere and in. 469 00:43:41,987.2741935 --> 00:43:52,697.2741935 When you have an education and you've done all the research and you're just dumbfounded of how many people you think you know, they're serving others, and it's really just me. 470 00:43:54,857.2741935 --> 00:43:55,997.2741935 Oh my God. 471 00:43:58,402.2741935 --> 00:44:04,367.2741935 I think I'm realizing in this moment that is my parenting style. 472 00:44:05,367.2741935 --> 00:44:17,157.2741935 And I feel like a lot of parents maybe have agendas like all the time in all of their interactions with their children. 473 00:44:17,367.2741935 --> 00:44:23,67.2741935 And I cannot live like that. 474 00:44:23,457.2741935 --> 00:44:25,197.2741935 That's like weird. 475 00:44:25,227.2741935 --> 00:44:26,607.2741935 That's like manipulative. 476 00:44:28,17.2741935 --> 00:44:28,347.2741935 Yeah. 477 00:44:28,347.2741935 --> 00:44:36,367.2741935 And we do it without even knowing like we, sorry, we'll enroll our kids in cheer camp or whatever. 478 00:44:36,397.2741935 --> 00:44:37,777.2741935 Because we wanna make connections. 479 00:44:38,527.2741935 --> 00:44:41,17.2741935 Go be on the golf club so we can make connections. 480 00:44:41,497.2741935 --> 00:44:44,47.2741935 Hey, I mommy needs a wine that you need to go get friends. 481 00:44:44,47.2741935 --> 00:44:48,997.2741935 Hey, let's go to church so I can have friends, or I can have a social circle. 482 00:44:49,582.2741935 --> 00:45:00,592.2741935 Or whatever the agenda is, or I want you to be this way rather than ask asking your child where do you feel comfortable? Yeah, totally. 483 00:45:01,732.2741935 --> 00:45:02,932.2741935 Like I. 484 00:45:04,42.2741935 --> 00:45:07,132.2741935 I didn't feel the need to have a birthday party. 485 00:45:07,162.2741935 --> 00:45:13,102.2741935 My twins just turned two and like they, they're just two. 486 00:45:13,132.2741935 --> 00:45:14,542.2741935 They don't go to school yet. 487 00:45:14,542.2741935 --> 00:45:23,712.2741935 Like they don't have friends, like what, who are we throwing a party for? If we did it would be for the adults. 488 00:45:23,792.2741935 --> 00:45:28,532.2741935 I used to do that a lot is with my third child. 489 00:45:28,877.2741935 --> 00:45:30,137.2741935 We didn't have a community. 490 00:45:30,137.2741935 --> 00:45:34,547.2741935 It was around Covid didn't really have, he didn't have a lot of friends. 491 00:45:34,547.2741935 --> 00:45:36,257.2741935 It's already hard for him to make friends. 492 00:45:37,167.2741935 --> 00:45:53,102.2741935 And I threw him this really awesome party, had every details, and I don't know if but these I already forgot the name, but they were these nursery rhyme shows and the theme was all about that. 493 00:45:53,792.2741935 --> 00:45:56,312.2741935 And I had. 494 00:45:57,617.2741935 --> 00:45:57,827.2741935 Okay. 495 00:45:57,827.2741935 --> 00:46:16,967.2741935 I had a balloon person, I had a face painter, and I had I for a magician, and I had this whole machine to make what do you call those bubbles? No, it's, yeah. 496 00:46:17,102.2741935 --> 00:46:21,947.2741935 Cotton candy machines I always use in this whole production. 497 00:46:22,7.2741935 --> 00:46:23,357.2741935 If you saw this. 498 00:46:24,827.2741935 --> 00:46:26,807.2741935 It was Pinteresty. 499 00:46:27,167.2741935 --> 00:46:35,507.2741935 It was how those Pinterest mom, and it, I think it got worse during the pandemic and cons. 500 00:46:35,747.2741935 --> 00:46:43,97.2741935 Consumerism went up and everything was on social media, and she's throwing the perfect party. 501 00:46:43,187.2741935 --> 00:46:46,907.2741935 Oh, look at the color she used and she had a bounce house. 502 00:46:46,967.2741935 --> 00:46:47,837.2741935 Oh my gosh. 503 00:46:47,837.2741935 --> 00:46:49,937.2741935 Look at that backdrop with the balloons. 504 00:46:52,277.2741935 --> 00:47:02,757.2741935 He didn't really have any friends and if you saw this party, it would be like, someone said this looked like it just came out of Pinterest and it was absurd. 505 00:47:02,757.2741935 --> 00:47:04,857.2741935 Looking back, he doesn't remember any of it. 506 00:47:04,857.2741935 --> 00:47:06,117.2741935 He didn't even have fun. 507 00:47:06,507.2741935 --> 00:47:07,497.2741935 It was overstimulating. 508 00:47:07,697.2741935 --> 00:47:10,517.2741935 So it's always our agenda, this external. 509 00:47:11,282.2741935 --> 00:47:19,222.2741935 This need for external validation that was never met at a young age, so now you're projecting it onto your kids and it's oh, look at me. 510 00:47:19,222.2741935 --> 00:47:22,502.2741935 Or look, it's always oh, my child did this. 511 00:47:22,502.2741935 --> 00:47:23,972.2741935 My child got these grades. 512 00:47:23,972.2741935 --> 00:47:35,252.2741935 And it's really, that's what hurts me the most with my parents is when you call me, all we do is talk about my finance, my finances, or how my business is doing. 513 00:47:37,7.2741935 --> 00:47:38,587.2741935 And it's always been like that. 514 00:47:38,587.2741935 --> 00:47:41,467.2741935 So I've been a little bit rebellious in the past. 515 00:47:41,467.2741935 --> 00:47:48,387.2741935 It's I'm not gonna let you use me so you can feel proud of my successes. 516 00:47:48,957.2741935 --> 00:47:59,97.2741935 And it's just, it's like when you only turn to me and praise the grades, praise the looks if you like them at the time, and praise the financial aspect. 517 00:48:00,357.2741935 --> 00:48:02,727.2741935 Then that's all we can connect on. 518 00:48:03,237.2741935 --> 00:48:03,867.2741935 It is, oh my god. 519 00:48:05,167.2741935 --> 00:48:18,627.2741935 And that might have been a thing in the 19 hundreds when you're starving and you need to make this transition as an immigrant, but it is our res, it is our responsibility to not be so complacent as this is all we care about. 520 00:48:19,107.2741935 --> 00:48:22,137.2741935 And maybe you go to church, maybe my mom meditates all the time. 521 00:48:22,137.2741935 --> 00:48:35,167.2741935 Maybe you go do all these spiritual things, but are you actually practicing them? In real life with your kids and your friends and your husband and at work preach. 522 00:48:38,47.2741935 --> 00:48:38,347.2741935 And we're not. 523 00:48:38,347.2741935 --> 00:48:38,407.2741935 Wow. 524 00:48:39,307.2741935 --> 00:48:40,882.2741935 But we have to make progress. 525 00:48:41,182.2741935 --> 00:48:54,992.2741935 You have to be able to look your look at yourself in the mirror, right? And what is my intention? Am I being manipulative? We are all, we all manipulate to some extent because we are just humans. 526 00:48:55,562.2741935 --> 00:48:57,242.2741935 It's just the way our brains are wired. 527 00:48:57,662.2741935 --> 00:49:10,682.2741935 Hey I want this to happen, so I'll do this, but what is the intention behind it? Is the intention so I can feel good? Is it a me thing? My kid got straight A's, so that makes me so proud. 528 00:49:11,987.2741935 --> 00:49:15,827.2741935 Or did it actually make the kid proud, whatever it was. 529 00:49:16,337.2741935 --> 00:49:29,547.2741935 So people manipulate you using fear-based tactics and it's just, sometimes that's why your kids never feel proud of themselves. 530 00:49:30,547.2741935 --> 00:49:33,787.2741935 We could, I could go on forever. 531 00:49:34,852.2741935 --> 00:49:35,992.2741935 Talking to you. 532 00:49:36,502.2741935 --> 00:49:51,32.2741935 In fact, we might, we should do another episode because this is really important stuff, like really important and like you said, like it's really important in this moment in time. 533 00:49:51,902.2741935 --> 00:49:57,812.2741935 My computer is on low battery and I'm so scared to lose this recording. 534 00:49:58,82.2741935 --> 00:49:59,762.2741935 No, you do what you have to do. 535 00:49:59,942.2741935 --> 00:50:01,262.2741935 It's completely okay. 536 00:50:03,962.2741935 --> 00:50:13,562.2741935 Oh my God, it has been wonderful and like truth bombs everywhere talking with you. 537 00:50:14,132.2741935 --> 00:50:15,92.2741935 Thank you. 538 00:50:15,367.2741935 --> 00:50:16,862.2741935 You're welcome for being here. 539 00:50:17,162.2741935 --> 00:50:17,372.2741935 Yeah. 540 00:50:17,372.2741935 --> 00:50:18,752.2741935 Thank you for having me. 541 00:50:20,552.2741935 --> 00:50:23,852.2741935 And maybe we'll do a part two. 542 00:50:24,542.2741935 --> 00:50:25,742.2741935 Yeah, definitely. 543 00:50:25,742.2741935 --> 00:50:26,672.2741935 You can reach out to me. 544 00:50:26,672.2741935 --> 00:50:28,292.2741935 You have my contact information. 545 00:50:29,72.2741935 --> 00:50:29,402.2741935 Oh yeah.
To how I ally, I'm Lucinda Koza and I'm here with an incredible guest who is going to introduce herself, if you will.
Hi, my name is Navi Hughes.
I'm a board certified child, adolescent, and adult psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner therapist, and emotional intelligence coach.
(00:26):
Wow.
And can you give a little bit of a backstory obviously I did your interview in Authority magazine but give us a little bit of a backstory, if you will, for our listeners.
Yeah, so I'm an immigrant.
(00:48):
Moved to the United States when I was about nine or 10 as far as my memory can serve.
And then we moved to Oklahoma, but I've been living in Texas forever and I'm a mental health provider.
I.
I would always say the mental health profession chose me.
(01:08):
I didn't really choose it because of my family.
I guess I found out later on that I'm so passionate about it because all these mental health issues existed in my family and I was deprived of what you would like for kids to have in today's world, like what my kids have.
So I'm really passionate about mental health.
(01:29):
I also do coaching, therapy and coaching.
It's a hybrid model to move, help people move past the trauma.
So it's not just talk.
How can we move through it and take action? So that's where the coaching comes in.
Personally, I'm a mom, a wife.
We have a blended family of five.
I have been a widow and I got remarried.
(01:52):
So we have a blended family and.
It's been quite an amazing experience.
Some days are great, and then some days we just get through 'em, but at the end of it all it works out.
Yeah.
Wow.
Sounds like there are a lot of chapters in your.
(02:18):
Story different lives lived.
Absolutely.
When you work in this industry of content creation and what do you want your brand to look like and what do you wanna be known for? They, you're supposed to pick these stories and I'm like, I have too many there's just too many chapters and it's not that.
(02:41):
I want to cater to everybody.
And it's not like this thing that I just need to have to be everything to be all.
But I have gone through it all.
So it is really tough, like to, Hey, I wanna be this person or I wanna be that person.
I've been a teen mom, I've been an immigrant a mental health provider, a widow, a bl blended family bonus mom.
(03:04):
So there's just a lot of things, right? So it's difficult.
To pick that chapter and be like, this is the most amazing chapter that made the difference, and that is the hardest thing for me.
I don't know when the turning point was because I've closed so many chapters and reinvented myself to each chapter.
(03:26):
There's like micro turning points in each journey.
I recognize that so much.
I feel like the exact same way.
Like I told you I went to SMU like that, like I lived in Dallas for five years did that actually happen? Who was that? Was that me? Like what? It's weird.
(03:53):
A lot of that is our brain protects ourselves, puts things into different chapters.
So many people that go to college are struggling in a different type of, environment than adults and children and, but they all have in common some.
If there's a deep experience or a painful one, we try to, like your brain just tries to pack it up, package it up in a nice little box and put it away.
(04:19):
And then when you're looking back at it, every time that story comes up or your brain re-edits it, or it's depending on what mood you're in for the day or it gets lost in there and packaged and it's so hard to be objective when you've been through so much.
Yeah, I was just thinking the other day about emotional clutter.
(04:46):
I feel like that resonates with you absolutely there.
And that is why I found a tool.
I made a tool.
My patients needed the tool.
In fact, it was one of my patients.
He said, why don't you are so great at doing this concept.
Why don't you just teach emotional intelligence? And this is a tech guy telling me to put like something together so my patients could have a tool outside of therapy or being on one-on-one with me.
(05:14):
So I created a program and it's, I guess you could think of a blueprint or new language to approach emotional intelligence.
We have all these tools, but really we're reaching everywhere.
We're not supposed to be like, we need to look within us.
The answers lie there.
I want people to ha need less therapy.
(05:37):
I want people to need less coaching.
I want people to need less meds.
So how do you do that? You focus in regulating yourself.
You pick up on your emotions, your sensory experiences.
You tune into your body and you make decisions that are grounded towards like you.
(05:57):
What you need and not what anyone else is telling you.
That essentially is building that level of emotional intelligence.
People that have great emotional intelligence are harder to manipulate.
They just know their truth and I bet they're great parents.
It is just, that just occurs to me.
(06:21):
I don't know.
Yeah, absolutely.
I would.
I would think of that.
They lead by example because to be an emotionally intelligent person, you have to tune into your emotions.
You have to be able to pause, we all experience anger, but are you able to recognize the anger? Are you able to pause in that moment? Are you able to regulate your emotions so you don't transfer that energy? I.
(06:49):
Into your child, right? So it's stopping yourself without judgment and getting feedback from your child.
So meaning you might have to experience somewhat of an ego death and make it not all about you, right? So people from our generation have a hard time doing that because everything is about the ego, or you should respect me or you should do this.
(07:14):
And what about me, and.
She's mini me and he's mini me.
It's really not about me.
It's about that child feeling empowered.
And that's what people with high level emotional intelligence know.
Like you want your child to be empowered and need you less.
(07:35):
The problem is people wanna be needed.
So it's me.
That's how it's like some parents try to control the narrative, whether intentionally or not they do it.
Oh my God, you just blew my mind completely.
The mini me, I have twins, a girl and a boy.
(07:58):
Like I recognize too much truth in that, in what you said.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah, and I used to be.
I used to practice the same way because that's what my parents taught me.
Be more like me.
(08:19):
Even though you know you have these things, apple doesn't fall from the tree and all that stuff.
I get it.
You are part of your environment, but you don't need to practice what your parents practice.
You don't need to believe what your parents believe.
You're supposed to grow beyond that as your environment changes, why would I possess the same beliefs? In 2025 and from the 1980s when we're not going through the same struggles, like it doesn't make sense.
(08:49):
You have to go beyond those beliefs.
And beliefs are not values, right? We all have a moral compass.
Beliefs are just everyday things like, can I do this? Am I good at that? Just little things.
Those are little beliefs they can either break you or make you like.
Most people experience limited beliefs.
And they feed themselves that story because we're wired to, it's easier for our brain to protect us like that 'cause we're scared of change.
(09:18):
But you have to go beyond those beliefs to reach a level of self-actualization, which, if you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, that's really what we're all trying to get to from the basic to the top.
This is like going to church.
This is oh, you're everyone needs to know this, and we're not taught, maybe the younger generations are doing better I, or we're trying to do better for them.
(09:55):
But I was not taught any of this.
I feel like emotional intelligence should be taught in like kindergarten.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
This is why I created this emotional literacy program.
So you think about iq, you have like science, math, reading.
(10:16):
You think about emotional intelligence.
Most people can't tell you what makes it up, right? It's, I didn't know it.
I had to study it and get all these pieces together, define it, and find out like, how can it help my people in psychiatry that don't know what they're feeling? Or just, here's your medication.
Oh, I felt angry yesterday.
Here's your medication, but you don't know why you felt angry.
(10:38):
Maybe you could have paused.
Maybe you could have done all these skills, but you don't know why you feel when you feel it.
How to feel it.
So you just keep going and going.
And then when you become dysfunctional or your environment's a stressor or some genetics get, unlocked, you start developing these disorders like, have major episodes.
(11:01):
Or if you have bipolar disorder, you're more likely to have flareups if you cannot regulate that stress.
So we don't really have a preventative way of psychiatry.
This was my bridge, just to educate you so you can have less flareups, you can prevent certain things and just have a good quality of life just by tuning into your mind and body and learning how the two work together.
(11:30):
Wow.
Wow.
So right there isn't a preventative.
Technique that is taught in traditional therapy or psychiatry.
So that's like revolutionary.
(11:54):
I've not, I don't think I've even thought about it that way.
I'm excited to share it because the moment I've been putting it all together and it was really how do I reduce, like I, my goal.
Is not keeping people in therapy or, always if they don't want meds.
My goal is to give them the best quality of life no matter what it takes.
(12:17):
That's the goal.
Can you smile when you're hanging out with your family? Can you go home with a smile after work? Can you embrace that? That kiss or that moment with your child without pushing them off? Can you be present? That's the goal, right? So how do I do that when.
Also giving you space to need me less and regulate you more like yourself more.
(12:42):
When we get so overwhelmed, we quickly jump on our phone.
Hey, so and so said The drive through pissed me off.
So and so said something in the boardroom that I didn't like.
My husband didn't feed the kids the right food.
I'm pissed.
So you're constantly in this battle of texting everyone all day, like just venting here and there.
(13:02):
And it doesn't mean you can't vent, it just means that need to constantly vent, vent, vent because you can't regulate your nervous system.
That was happening also in my life with my kid who has autism, but also with my patients.
I'm like, there's gotta be a way how I can help you outside of therapy with real tools.
(13:24):
Real definition, so you understand what self-awareness is.
You understand what motivation and resilience is.
You understand what situational awareness is so you can solve your problems.
That is my goal for most patients that I have, excuse me, that I have it, is to empower you.
(13:45):
And in the same way we should empower our children.
We don't want reliant, codependent humans.
You want interdependent humans that help each other out, but can still survive and thrive on their own.
Yes.
Yeah.
(14:05):
Yeah.
Like our children, especially a child who has autism, there's a lot of thought that goes into.
I'm not gonna be around someday, and you need to thrive and have the best life possible without me.
(14:40):
Yeah, those words are really hard to say, you know it's reality.
It.
And then either you can approach it strategically with emotional intelligence and just increasing your emotional literacy.
Or you can be hyper reactive and making hyper make or create a hyper independent child, which is.
(15:05):
Surviving through trauma, right? So you have to make the call of, are we gonna handle this strategically? I know because I've been on both sides.
Each child got a different mother.
My oldest one jokes around with me, why aren't you like that? I'm like, you don't want me to be the same mom I was 18 years ago.
(15:27):
I need to change as a human.
That's what really sets us apart is you leveling up.
If I'm the same person I was 20 years ago, there's a problem.
So I had to create, with my first one, I could tell my first child, she has a sense of being hyper independent and I know what I did.
(15:50):
I know it's also.
Great for her, but not great when she needs to verbalize certain emotions or get her feelings out.
The eldest child syndrome, I'll fake it till I make it.
I'm fine.
Where I have my baby, we are learning certain things and this kid is writing me.
(16:11):
Letters to, Hey, you're going to jail today, or, I don't love you, or, here, I'm mad at you.
I'm writing you this angry note.
So how do you work with that child that has autism? You just have to let your ego die.
When you get feedback like that, and I know he doesn't mean it, but it's allowing him to express those feelings.
(16:33):
A lot of parents don't understand because they want the con.
Control over the child's development.
But if you allow them to be, they develop the way they need to, right? By guiding them and working with them, regulating and not always being a rush to shut them down or fix their behavior.
(16:53):
'cause they're really not broken.
They're not broken.
They just need to be able to understand themselves and heal on their own.
It seems, it's it's like hard enough with any child, right? Like you said, and then, it's just a whole new set of, I was gonna say rules, but there are no rules.
(17:20):
There's no although you have.
It created a guidebook.
It feels like there's no guidebook.
Yes.
And that is the exact language I have used on my website is this is the blueprint that no one gave you.
This is the roadmap, like the language around emotional intelligence.
(17:44):
Because when you're reaching for all these things, and maybe you're playing mental gymnastics, Hey, I gotta write for.
An hour to get all these thoughts out.
I have to go to the gym to get these thoughts out and I have to cold plunge or I have to meditate, and it just, how much time is that taking up outta your day? If you wanna be productive you want to write, you wanna do your podcast.
(18:07):
If you're spending all this time just to muster up the energy, to declutter your brain hours and hours you've got all these tools people are telling you to be.
Use, but you've missed the biggest tool, which is you, your mind and body, and being able to connect that knowing what you feel and moving through it and still getting your work done, and not sitting through hours of therapy in my office or with a therapist.
(18:34):
I've had patients say to me, I've been in therapy 10 years and I have not had this framed this way, or I would've taken action.
And that they live with shame, regret, guilt, and it is really, I haven't done anything miraculous that doesn't exist.
It's just, I would say it's just a bunch of research and lived experience and from my patients, like what they need.
(19:08):
So it's not like this brand new.
Thing that you know, is so innovative.
It is just trying to put everybody's pieces together of what they need.
Giving it a definition.
People get confused when we can't define things.
That's why we have to individually define things too, right? What does joy mean to you? Might not be, or does joy mean to me? And I'm always questioning that for my clients.
(19:32):
What does this mean to you? 'cause if you tell me, like I'm successful.
What does success mean to you? And that's how you know, I usually get people to tell me what does it mean? So I gave a definition for each one and then gave a strategy and a tool to implement each one.
(19:56):
And then you can define how this looks like in your life.
All I can do is give you examples, but everyone looks different.
And in a sense also on the opposite side, we're all human, so we go through similar struggles.
We all experience these basic emotions that we turn into big feelings, and some of us let it control our day.
(20:24):
And not saying, I don't, I'm not saying we don't ever, it's just your ability to recover and bounce back from.
That emotional overwhelm.
Yeah.
It seems the, I am, I grew up in South Carolina and in the south you do not talk about any of this.
(20:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's just I get you, you probably can feel that in Fort Worth or anywhere.
Yeah.
So we had hope the mental health community was making some headway.
(21:16):
Our research for psychiatry.
Is when you compare it to other fields, it's so behind and we're doing a disservice to others by not, keeping up with the times, having more research, but that means more funding.
That means more people willing to care enough for those efforts.
(21:37):
And my goal has always been to destigmatize mental health.
But after that goal, I'm like, no, we don't wanna just destigmatize it.
We wanna make it mainstream.
We want it to be.
You know the word mental health check-ins, just like you get your physical, you should get a mental health check-in.
Are you okay? Because your eq, your emotional intelligence, drives most of your decisions.
(22:04):
It is seen.
It is actually used in marketing, content creation, journalism, emotional intelligence is used everywhere in sales in your business.
Building relationships with your spouse, your family.
It is everywhere.
It's just how we define it so you can utilize it.
And going back is, yes, we do lack it.
(22:26):
This is why I created the gap.
I was making headway.
I felt like we were as a community.
And now, with recent funding and all this cutbacks, it's just with all the research cutbacks, it's been very.
I don't know.
I, some days I try to not get so hopeless about it, and those are the days I have to, put my pants on and do this whole self-talk of you've made it so far, we still have to keep going.
(22:58):
If you don't keep going, what does the alternative look like? You still have to push this mental health agenda.
If not, we're gonna be sitting in the 18 hundreds again and.
We're living like we're in the 1980s right now, but it is 2025.
And if you look at other countries, they're living like they're in the 2050s.
(23:21):
I'm like, what are we doing? We are going back, especially now towards autism.
Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder.
And I have clients.
And I have therapists, I'll start with the clients that feel unseen un hardd, because now you, they were being validated.
(23:48):
They had some criteria, some patterns that they could learn about their brain.
It was nice to fit in and to know something about yourself.
But now we have therapists.
I had a client the other day, their therapist told them, Hey.
I don't think it's a good idea for you to have the diagnosis, autism, and I'm like, what are we doing? Are we just not gonna diagnose with that anymore because of everything that's going on the climate? And I'm just like, oh my gosh, this is such a disservice.
(24:18):
Oh, you know how much courage it takes for someone to come ask for help.
And now you're saying, you know what? Let's just not call it autism.
I'm supposed to be empowering you as a mental health.
A professional of this is you accept it, but if you have to hide that part of you, then am I setting the right example? Oh my God.
(24:42):
Wow.
Okay.
And that is the dilemma we're seeing and I've seen it.
People now are scared to go get neuropsych evals.
They're scared.
One, it's mental health professionals that are also scared that are pushing this agenda.
And like I said, I'm in the south and now it's oh, you know when you, back in the day, if something happened to you, you were assaulted, you don't talk about it.
(25:04):
Because people might think this way, right? Your voice is silenced.
Because we don't want, we don't want that kind of name on the family.
So now the same thing is happening with autism, and it is really sad.
We don't want you to be labeled autistic because dah.
Now you're asking someone to hide a part of them and forcing them to act a certain way because you naturally are gonna reinforce what society wants.
(25:33):
'cause you've already.
Taken that type of validation away from your child.
Oh my God, this is this is really upsetting.
Yeah, It, when I found that out, I had to like, not let it affect my patients and, but I had to empower her and let her know that I don't necessarily.
(25:55):
Agree, but there's a fear, right? Especially with children.
You put the fear, you tell them something, and you activate that fight or flight, especially if you have autism, right? It's you are so sensitive to your environment.
People think that kids with autism don't feel anything.
In fact, they are the most empathic people.
(26:18):
They feel everything.
They just, they're a good judge of character.
They.
Take all these senses and they're watching you.
They're watching your nonverbals and their energy.
Their nervous system is just filling up with that.
So if you create fear, they're gonna feel more of that.
If you create safety, they will accept the safety, calm their nervous system down.
(26:41):
So you are literally hindering treatment by putting in fear as part of the treatment plan.
It bad, but like you said, like you have to keep going.
Like you, you have to keep you affecting the people that are your patients or you, you just have to, because if you don't, then.
(27:08):
There's no hope really.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I've had feedback from even family or, it's like, why put your child's business out there? Or why put your business out there? And it's not because I want to, it's not because I'm just this great, vulnerable person.
(27:30):
It takes a lot of courage.
I have, I feel like there's a calling, like I just cannot stop.
And I do try.
I'm just like, I do try because some days you're working against the grain with all the news and everything going on.
You're just, especially in my field, right? Most people try to protect their brands or assets their money, or they don't wanna be involved in this.
(27:54):
What makes it hard for me is I am in the mental health space.
So if I don't talk about it, who else is gonna talk about it? Everyone's like really scared of how is it gonna affect my bottom line? How's it gonna affect my networking? How's it gonna affect my launch if I talk about these things? But I feel like I have to.
(28:15):
To live in my truth.
It's a sample that I'm setting for my clients.
So I guess in that way I'm not against anyone, but I am for mental health.
I am for those values that we need, the being heard, being seen, raising emotionally mature humans.
(28:44):
We are still facing a crisis of a adults or kids.
We are facing a crisis of kids in adult bodies that haven't been seen, haven't been heard, haven't been validated, and it's just like spreading like wildfire of who gets the most attention.
(29:04):
Me, and forget everyone else.
And it is an epidemic on its own.
And like we see you, we hear you.
People that are emotionally in intelligent really cannot be fooled by that.
The divide and conquer method, the fear method doesn't work because we can feel our emotions.
We understand and we understand the manipulative tactics because part of this.
(29:30):
Part of having some form of emotional intelligence, and I'm not saying you have really high EQ for doing this, is dark psychology is fear based motivation, which you have seen it over, I don't know, the last two, 3000 years.
If I put a fear in you, you're likely to respond, right? It's gonna cloud your judgment.
(29:53):
You're going to, you're gonna go right into survival mode, and that's what people want in.
They want you in survival mode.
So you can't think, you can't get creative, you can't have these solutions, so you don't create that community, that new community that you might need.
You might just hold on to the old community that was familiar, or you might be scared of losing that community, but sometimes you have to lose those certain beliefs so you can stay in touch with those values.
(30:27):
So you're not living in two different places.
A lot of people here, they're very fearful, so they're doing one thing and saying another behind the scenes.
I know because they're in my office, so they're playing.
They're like two different personalities with no personality disorder and not bipolar, but it's just they have to be a certain way here in a certain way at work or with their family.
(30:56):
And it's just sad because you lose who you are and you burn out so much faster when you have to live a life that you're just pretending.
And that's where you see like suicide.
Yes.
So you don't wanna, classify certain things or label or misspeak.
(31:20):
'cause I sometimes misspeak.
So let me be back then.
When emotions are suppressed, kids' opinions are suppressed, or you just feel so lonely, your suicide rates are gonna be higher.
Y literally, people are suffering in silence because you've asked them to.
(31:43):
You don't wanna acknowledge their depression.
You don't wanna acknowledge their beliefs or their values because you're I don't know, scared to losing.
What was, I don't know, I guess great back then, but it's, again, it's just.
An emotion attached to that old story.
(32:03):
People were suffering back then.
So why would we wanna model our future behaviors from the back wind mentality? It's just there for the America.
They want, not for the entire America, it's for the people that they want and.
(32:24):
We're doing something right, doing something, whatever that something is.
It is, again, just to divide, conquer.
We've been using this method for such a long time, divide and conquer by instilling fear, and people fall for it right after time.
And that's why I encourage people to find their community so they're not defeated into.
(32:49):
That fear, which is why I told you I am moving.
And I do have patients that, that are not like that, but they're surrounded by people like that, so they really can't thrive because you're so busy being bogged down, right from fighting the things rather than making a huge difference because you're just.
(33:18):
Spend your time in battle.
And sometimes I feel like that too, like with my mental health mantra, I just, oh, it's just a quirk.
It's not real.
Everybody gets depressed and you just need to have more gratitude.
So it's like, how do you fight these everyday scenarios? And there's this link that's missing.
I'm like, okay, is this is not growth.
(33:40):
I.
This is just me fighting with you on a day-to-day basis.
And then there are people that want to move towards that, and I love them for that because I have helped so many.
Even if you could just give me some openness, just a little bit of a peek, a glimmer, so where you could let the light in.
(34:00):
I'll take that.
Yeah, but when you're surrounded by everything that's telling you this is not real, none of this is real.
It's just, it's disheartening.
And the funny thing is you can see it through SI science.
You can see it through brain scans, you can see it respond to treatments.
(34:25):
Hey, I gave you this medication, and all of a sudden you're a productive human being.
You didn't lack willpower.
You just needed help.
Now you like I have clients telling me, man, I feel like such a better person.
Why did I wait so long to get help? I know exactly why you waited 20 years because your family guilted you and shamed you for it.
(34:45):
So it's like you're losing time and energy being in a bubble where you're not accepted.
It's like when you're like, I'm from the slums of India, and if you stay in that slum and you stay in that gutter, you can't really, you can't expand, you can't grow.
You're gonna stay stuck there.
(35:06):
But if you get out of it, maybe you come back and save more people, but you have to save yourself first.
That's right.
You have to.
Put on the oxygen mask.
Yeah.
Before you assist others.
Yeah.
And I hope to make those kind of revolutionary changes.
Hope to get more empowerment, more people on board so we can move in the right direction of empowerment.
(35:34):
Like people toss this word around all the time, but empowerment is really getting you so confident.
You can make your own decisions, who you are, you know what you wanna be.
If not, you will figure it out and you will let go of what no longer serves you.
That is empowerment.
(35:54):
That's a good definition.
I just wish, people knew more and that's why I'm so into defining things because I was the kid, you just said these words to, I'm like, what does that really mean? I studied coming from India to here.
I dealt with, I don't know what she's saying.
Is she being mean? Is she teasing me? Why is she so sarcastic? I just don't understand.
(36:19):
And when there wasn't a definition for something, I just struggled because to me, certain things mean different, like very different things from what they might mean to someone else, which is why when I write content or blog, I ask my husband does this.
Is this the same meaning like to you, what it means to me, like that first pass test.
(36:41):
Because to me it just, it means everything.
It means what I want it to mean, but to the other person, it does not.
So it's the reason I started defining things.
And that's actually, that, that's a, that is a.
Value of mine that I think about a lot is not making assumptions about your audience or who you're talking to.
(37:11):
Like assuming that they know what the hell I'm talking about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe they've never heard this one word before, yeah.
And.
I constantly check in and ask questions like, does it, does this resonate with you? Or have them explain, because a confused mind can't make good decisions, so we're just lost in conversation rather than saying, like our parents used to tell us, oh, you should know.
(37:44):
Oh, you should know this, or You should know that there aren't any shouldn'ts.
You weren't born out of the womb knowing everything.
You learn it.
And we should feel even at our age, whatever our age is, we should feel unafraid to say that we don't know something.
(38:06):
So I was a bedside nurse and your physicians residents, everybody's rounding at 7:00 AM in the morning.
They just expect you to know these patients expect you to know you just got to work like 20 minutes ago and the call lights are going off.
And then there was a sense of, you're stupid if you don't know your patient.
(38:29):
I haven't even seen them.
And then one, one of the nurse practitioners, she rounded with one of these, the head cardiologist that day, and he asked her this question and she just said, I don't know.
And to me that was so empowering.
I'm like, she could just say that.
(38:50):
That was her truth.
So why couldn't I say it? I don't know.
And that was the first time in the medical world I've seen someone just accept it because he didn't give her hell and she was just honest.
And that was a moment for me.
I took it, but I'm like, you just say you don't know like that.
(39:11):
It's okay not to know.
Give a check.
She's this fear of being wrong all the time.
Will you? You are more wrong if you don't go check and go check the details.
Right up then you're definitely wrong.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because in the medical world, lies can hurt a patient.
(39:33):
I started to do that as a parent, like with my husband, I used to feel like I always had to have the answer to, something like, do they have clean socks? Or yeah.
But if I don't know I'm not gonna take on that burden of making up some kind of information or some kind of reason why I don't have the information.
(39:59):
I'm just gonna say straight up, I don't know.
Yeah.
And there's no like story attached to that.
Like it's just a fact, I don't know.
Yes.
And and if it's something you really truly care about, you can say, I don't know, but I'll find out and get back to you.
There you go.
(40:21):
Yeah.
There's this you had mentioned like this bias earlier.
Of not wanting to have a bias or put people in a category, just being more curious.
And it's interesting because I, over the years, have looked at why don't I go, like, why am I not prepared? Why am I not a perfectionist? Cindy over there, she knew everything on the itinerary.
(40:49):
Everyone, she checked their background, she knows where they work.
She read their resume and she showed up ready.
And I was never that kind of person.
And I did this personality test and I don't know if you've ever heard of it.
It's Myers Brigg Briggs, MBTI.
(41:11):
So I had E-N-F-P-A, ENFP, whatever.
I was intuitive.
So I'm linking back.
I'm like, why am I never prepared for any of this? Like conference after conference or just meetings.
And I realized I just like to meet humans where they're at.
(41:36):
I don't need to know your resume.
I don't need to know you have a million followers.
I don't need to know what can I get from you? I don't need to know how you can help me.
I just need to know the human side of you.
And I feel like a lot of us have this agenda to meet, agenda to execute.
(41:59):
I've seen it time and time again.
And when you go into this influencer world or content creation or just.
Networking in general.
Everyone has an agenda and I just thought that approach was not authentic to me and that's maybe why I don't wanna prepare.
(42:20):
I don't wanna go look at your bio, I just wanna know you and I have, looked silly 'cause people have called me silly.
Oh, you don't know so and so no, I'm just meeting 'em where they're at like the other day.
We were at a conference and we were at a conference in Florida.
I had no idea.
The person in front of me that was buying me dinner was gonna be on the Mel Robbins podcast.
(42:45):
I had no idea.
I just got to sit with her and listen to her story and just connect like I had no idea, and I'm okay with that. 461 00:42:52,863.5645161 --> 00:43:03,692.2741935 And then you gave her the opportunity? You gave that person the opportunity to have an authentic conversation. 462 00:43:05,312.2741935 --> 00:43:13,52.2741935 And that's such a gift because normally that person is probably just dealing with people who have agendas. 463 00:43:15,422.2741935 --> 00:43:15,632.2741935 Yes. 464 00:43:15,632.2741935 --> 00:43:15,872.2741935 And I. 465 00:43:16,752.2741935 --> 00:43:22,862.2741935 With emotional intelligence, some people teach tactics of getting to know them. 466 00:43:22,862.2741935 --> 00:43:30,122.2741935 Like where do they need help? What are their problems? What are you gonna help 'em with? And it is just, it's very superficial. 467 00:43:30,122.2741935 --> 00:43:38,582.2741935 And now we put like a strategy to manipulate towards our agenda rather than a strategy to connect. 468 00:43:39,242.2741935 --> 00:43:41,582.2741935 I see it everywhere and in. 469 00:43:41,987.2741935 --> 00:43:52,697.2741935 When you have an education and you've done all the research and you're just dumbfounded of how many people you think you know, they're serving others, and it's really just me. 470 00:43:54,857.2741935 --> 00:43:55,997.2741935 Oh my God. 471 00:43:58,402.2741935 --> 00:44:04,367.2741935 I think I'm realizing in this moment that is my parenting style. 472 00:44:05,367.2741935 --> 00:44:17,157.2741935 And I feel like a lot of parents maybe have agendas like all the time in all of their interactions with their children. 473 00:44:17,367.2741935 --> 00:44:23,67.2741935 And I cannot live like that. 474 00:44:23,457.2741935 --> 00:44:25,197.2741935 That's like weird. 475 00:44:25,227.2741935 --> 00:44:26,607.2741935 That's like manipulative. 476 00:44:28,17.2741935 --> 00:44:28,347.2741935 Yeah. 477 00:44:28,347.2741935 --> 00:44:36,367.2741935 And we do it without even knowing like we, sorry, we'll enroll our kids in cheer camp or whatever. 478 00:44:36,397.2741935 --> 00:44:37,777.2741935 Because we wanna make connections. 479 00:44:38,527.2741935 --> 00:44:41,17.2741935 Go be on the golf club so we can make connections. 480 00:44:41,497.2741935 --> 00:44:44,47.2741935 Hey, I mommy needs a wine that you need to go get friends. 481 00:44:44,47.2741935 --> 00:44:48,997.2741935 Hey, let's go to church so I can have friends, or I can have a social circle. 482 00:44:49,582.2741935 --> 00:45:00,592.2741935 Or whatever the agenda is, or I want you to be this way rather than ask asking your child where do you feel comfortable? Yeah, totally. 483 00:45:01,732.2741935 --> 00:45:02,932.2741935 Like I. 484 00:45:04,42.2741935 --> 00:45:07,132.2741935 I didn't feel the need to have a birthday party. 485 00:45:07,162.2741935 --> 00:45:13,102.2741935 My twins just turned two and like they, they're just two. 486 00:45:13,132.2741935 --> 00:45:14,542.2741935 They don't go to school yet. 487 00:45:14,542.2741935 --> 00:45:23,712.2741935 Like they don't have friends, like what, who are we throwing a party for? If we did it would be for the adults. 488 00:45:23,792.2741935 --> 00:45:28,532.2741935 I used to do that a lot is with my third child. 489 00:45:28,877.2741935 --> 00:45:30,137.2741935 We didn't have a community. 490 00:45:30,137.2741935 --> 00:45:34,547.2741935 It was around Covid didn't really have, he didn't have a lot of friends. 491 00:45:34,547.2741935 --> 00:45:36,257.2741935 It's already hard for him to make friends. 492 00:45:37,167.2741935 --> 00:45:53,102.2741935 And I threw him this really awesome party, had every details, and I don't know if but these I already forgot the name, but they were these nursery rhyme shows and the theme was all about that. 493 00:45:53,792.2741935 --> 00:45:56,312.2741935 And I had. 494 00:45:57,617.2741935 --> 00:45:57,827.2741935 Okay. 495 00:45:57,827.2741935 --> 00:46:16,967.2741935 I had a balloon person, I had a face painter, and I had I for a magician, and I had this whole machine to make what do you call those bubbles? No, it's, yeah. 496 00:46:17,102.2741935 --> 00:46:21,947.2741935 Cotton candy machines I always use in this whole production. 497 00:46:22,7.2741935 --> 00:46:23,357.2741935 If you saw this. 498 00:46:24,827.2741935 --> 00:46:26,807.2741935 It was Pinteresty. 499 00:46:27,167.2741935 --> 00:46:35,507.2741935 It was how those Pinterest mom, and it, I think it got worse during the pandemic and cons. 500 00:46:35,747.2741935 --> 00:46:43,97.2741935 Consumerism went up and everything was on social media, and she's throwing the perfect party. 501 00:46:43,187.2741935 --> 00:46:46,907.2741935 Oh, look at the color she used and she had a bounce house. 502 00:46:46,967.2741935 --> 00:46:47,837.2741935 Oh my gosh. 503 00:46:47,837.2741935 --> 00:46:49,937.2741935 Look at that backdrop with the balloons. 504 00:46:52,277.2741935 --> 00:47:02,757.2741935 He didn't really have any friends and if you saw this party, it would be like, someone said this looked like it just came out of Pinterest and it was absurd. 505 00:47:02,757.2741935 --> 00:47:04,857.2741935 Looking back, he doesn't remember any of it. 506 00:47:04,857.2741935 --> 00:47:06,117.2741935 He didn't even have fun. 507 00:47:06,507.2741935 --> 00:47:07,497.2741935 It was overstimulating. 508 00:47:07,697.2741935 --> 00:47:10,517.2741935 So it's always our agenda, this external. 509 00:47:11,282.2741935 --> 00:47:19,222.2741935 This need for external validation that was never met at a young age, so now you're projecting it onto your kids and it's oh, look at me. 510 00:47:19,222.2741935 --> 00:47:22,502.2741935 Or look, it's always oh, my child did this. 511 00:47:22,502.2741935 --> 00:47:23,972.2741935 My child got these grades. 512 00:47:23,972.2741935 --> 00:47:35,252.2741935 And it's really, that's what hurts me the most with my parents is when you call me, all we do is talk about my finance, my finances, or how my business is doing. 513 00:47:37,7.2741935 --> 00:47:38,587.2741935 And it's always been like that. 514 00:47:38,587.2741935 --> 00:47:41,467.2741935 So I've been a little bit rebellious in the past. 515 00:47:41,467.2741935 --> 00:47:48,387.2741935 It's I'm not gonna let you use me so you can feel proud of my successes. 516 00:47:48,957.2741935 --> 00:47:59,97.2741935 And it's just, it's like when you only turn to me and praise the grades, praise the looks if you like them at the time, and praise the financial aspect. 517 00:48:00,357.2741935 --> 00:48:02,727.2741935 Then that's all we can connect on. 518 00:48:03,237.2741935 --> 00:48:03,867.2741935 It is, oh my god. 519 00:48:05,167.2741935 --> 00:48:18,627.2741935 And that might have been a thing in the 19 hundreds when you're starving and you need to make this transition as an immigrant, but it is our res, it is our responsibility to not be so complacent as this is all we care about. 520 00:48:19,107.2741935 --> 00:48:22,137.2741935 And maybe you go to church, maybe my mom meditates all the time. 521 00:48:22,137.2741935 --> 00:48:35,167.2741935 Maybe you go do all these spiritual things, but are you actually practicing them? In real life with your kids and your friends and your husband and at work preach. 522 00:48:38,47.2741935 --> 00:48:38,347.2741935 And we're not. 523 00:48:38,347.2741935 --> 00:48:38,407.2741935 Wow. 524 00:48:39,307.2741935 --> 00:48:40,882.2741935 But we have to make progress. 525 00:48:41,182.2741935 --> 00:48:54,992.2741935 You have to be able to look your look at yourself in the mirror, right? And what is my intention? Am I being manipulative? We are all, we all manipulate to some extent because we are just humans. 526 00:48:55,562.2741935 --> 00:48:57,242.2741935 It's just the way our brains are wired. 527 00:48:57,662.2741935 --> 00:49:10,682.2741935 Hey I want this to happen, so I'll do this, but what is the intention behind it? Is the intention so I can feel good? Is it a me thing? My kid got straight A's, so that makes me so proud. 528 00:49:11,987.2741935 --> 00:49:15,827.2741935 Or did it actually make the kid proud, whatever it was. 529 00:49:16,337.2741935 --> 00:49:29,547.2741935 So people manipulate you using fear-based tactics and it's just, sometimes that's why your kids never feel proud of themselves. 530 00:49:30,547.2741935 --> 00:49:33,787.2741935 We could, I could go on forever. 531 00:49:34,852.2741935 --> 00:49:35,992.2741935 Talking to you. 532 00:49:36,502.2741935 --> 00:49:51,32.2741935 In fact, we might, we should do another episode because this is really important stuff, like really important and like you said, like it's really important in this moment in time. 533 00:49:51,902.2741935 --> 00:49:57,812.2741935 My computer is on low battery and I'm so scared to lose this recording. 534 00:49:58,82.2741935 --> 00:49:59,762.2741935 No, you do what you have to do. 535 00:49:59,942.2741935 --> 00:50:01,262.2741935 It's completely okay. 536 00:50:03,962.2741935 --> 00:50:13,562.2741935 Oh my God, it has been wonderful and like truth bombs everywhere talking with you. 537 00:50:14,132.2741935 --> 00:50:15,92.2741935 Thank you. 538 00:50:15,367.2741935 --> 00:50:16,862.2741935 You're welcome for being here. 539 00:50:17,162.2741935 --> 00:50:17,372.2741935 Yeah. 540 00:50:17,372.2741935 --> 00:50:18,752.2741935 Thank you for having me. 541 00:50:20,552.2741935 --> 00:50:23,852.2741935 And maybe we'll do a part two. 542 00:50:24,542.2741935 --> 00:50:25,742.2741935 Yeah, definitely. 543 00:50:25,742.2741935 --> 00:50:26,672.2741935 You can reach out to me. 544 00:50:26,672.2741935 --> 00:50:28,292.2741935 You have my contact information. 545 00:50:29,72.2741935 --> 00:50:29,402.2741935 Oh yeah.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.