Tyler Hubbard: Becoming Yourself When the World Knows You as Half of Florida Georgia Line

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
We've been taught everything except how to be human.
Welcome to human school, where remarkable people turn raw,
unfiltered experience into practical wisdom.
I'm Miles Adcox, and this podcast was born from the belief
that you don't graduate from being human, you just get more
honest about the lessons. If you're ready to stop

(00:21):
performing your life and start participating in it, you're in
the right place. This is human school where we
finally learn what matters most.Today's guest is someone who has
lived on some of the biggest stages in the world, yet carries
himself like a man who never lost touch with front porch
values. Most people met him through a
decade of record shattering success, stadiums singing along,

(00:44):
charts lighting up in genre stretched in ways that change
country music forever. But what I've come to appreciate
most about him has very little to do with the spotlight moments
or statistics. Because before he's an artist,
he's a man of integrity. Before the accolades, he's a
present and intentional husband and father, and before the
brand, he's a friend who shows up consistently, quietly, and

(01:06):
with the depth that's rare in this business.
I'm grateful to sit with him today, not just to talk about
the artist everyone thinks they know, but to introduce you to
the human I've come to know and admire.
Please welcome my buddy Tyler Hubbard.
I feel great buddy. Welcome.
Thank you for the intro. I'm glad you're here.
There's no words. Yeah, you got it, man.

(01:26):
Yeah, there's a bunch of stuff. I could have been in there and
that's one of the things I was excited to sit down with you.
You know, you and I've done thisbefore.
You were kind of a go to for me because we're good buddies and
you've been kind enough to say yes over the years when I was
doing other podcasts, whether itbe with On Site or The Unspoken
back in the day, of course. But it did feel like at that
time we were talking about FGL and talking about the challenges

(01:48):
of the road and all that stuff. And one of the privileges of of
being a friend is getting to seethe guy behind the curtain.
And I think I've shared this with you before as you've kind
of broken out and gone solo. I'd still love to hear parts of
those stories because I think those stories are rich with some
wisdom. But I think there's other parts
of you that I'm super excited for that story to continue to be

(02:09):
told. I know you're kind of what
probably feels like you're on the front end of embarking on
that journey, which is kind of cool because you've been doing
this for a long time. I mean, you've been in this town
and chasing music for a long time, and you might assume based
on the brand that you've had tremendous success building and
now you're retooling a brand #2 and that success building it
too, that people know you. But I think in some ways people

(02:29):
know you by the brand and maybe not the guy behind it.
So you think that feels? I think that's, yeah, that
definitely fits, you know, talking to you.
And then even just kind of taking my own assessment over
the last month or two as we've kind of been chatting about
that, I'm like, yeah, I don't think people really know me.
And I think I've done a poor jobof leaning into parts of who I

(02:52):
am that that people can connect with, you know, and my
weaknesses, my struggles, my successes, my victories and
everything in between, you know,and a lot of times it's just
been about the music, you know, and my story and what God's done
is so much bigger than the music.
And so it's, yeah, it's an exciting time.

(03:13):
I've really, even just chatting with you last week kind of got
me really excited and got my wheels turning about, man, what
is that? What is what are those pieces of
my story that that I want to share and how do I get my story
out there? And so yeah, I'm, I'm excited to
dive in, excited to go deeper with not only my fan base and my
audience, but also, you know, new fans and new audience.

(03:35):
And yeah. And obviously, this podcast is
special to me because I get to hang out with one of my best
friends and, you know, I can getas real as I can get with you.
So this is an exciting opportunity and maybe the
beginning of, you know, really getting out there and telling my
story. I love that and I I'm curious

(03:57):
upfront. You have such a one of my
favorite things about you is youyou'll tell the truth, sometimes
boldly, sometimes sharply. We've talked about tea,
sometimes we've had to. I've supported you.
I was like, alright, we got to govern it a little right, right,
right. And and you've done the same
with me as a friend. You're like, hey, you might not
want to say that to your wife today, maybe wait till tomorrow.
But your truth teller, which I, I really I admire and I like,

(04:20):
and I was curious when we were talking recently, I was like,
what? I know you and I know you've
wrestled with some demons. I know you care about redemption
and grace and second chances. I watch you mentor and usher a
lot of other people based on your own life experience.
And then a lot of people don't know your life, like you said,
and I asked you, I said, what? How come you know it's been hard
for you to tell that part of thestory?

(04:41):
And you quickly shot back. I don't know if you remember
what you said, and I won't remember exactly, but I related
to it. I didn't tell you when you told
me, so I'll tell you now. It's just something the fact of
like, it's not that I don't think it's interesting.
It's just I care about the art so much that I don't necessarily
want to come across as I'm a victim based on what I've

(05:01):
experienced in some kind of way.Yeah, I've had hardships.
Yeah, I've faced some challenges.
But look at what I'm I'm, I'm living a good life and I don't
know, sometimes that narrative feels boring to me or feels like
people wouldn't be interested init.
You said something like that, but it was a lot more curtain
short. And the part I can relate to
that I wish I'd have done then and kind of missed the moment
was the first time I did a podcast.

(05:23):
I had a Co host and the reason Ihad a Co host was I just thought
I was a little too boring to carry one by myself.
I literally said I did. I thought I need somebody that
brings a little more color, a little more personality because
I can be, you know, me, I can bea little serious, kind of a flat
affect. And and this time around I'm
like I've grown a little bit. It's been eight years and I'm

(05:46):
excited to tell the world a little bit about who I am
because I'm starting to to like that part.
It's not that I had this huge part where I didn't didn't like
it. I've done a lot of work over
that over the years. I guess I'm getting more excited
to share that part with the world.
I think I started this this, this whole thing released
yesterday. Of course, this year this
episode will be backed up a little way and I already started

(06:09):
getting a lot of love. And then I got the the criticism
too. In the course of the hundreds of
great comments. I camped out.
I'm the one as we do. But there's been a part of me
that has always shared that narrative a little bit that is
like my my tools are great out front.
My story should only be shared when necessary.
And I'm pretty good behind the curtain on that part.
What do you think that comes from for you?

(06:31):
Man. Good question.
I think how do I say it? I don't think I'm necessarily
drawn to people who who usually take the victim mentality or the
victim approach. And I think subconsciously I've
just wanted to be an optimistic,positive guy.
And, and maybe honestly, as you were saying that I feel like

(06:54):
maybe there's also a fear of this concept that no one will
really even believe me or connect with it because they
everyone already thinks, well, I'm just some, some big
songwriter, country music singerthat doesn't have any real world
problems. And all my problems are first
world problems and this and that.
And, and so I'll just, you know,there's no need for me to tell

(07:17):
stories of loss or stories of struggle or stories of, you
know, traumas that have maybe happened over the years for me
just because, well, still life'spretty good, you know what I
mean? And I just think, I don't know,
there's something, there's something in me that just wants
to learn more into the optimism,the positivity, the outlook on
life being bright and half half,you know, glass half full kind

(07:38):
of situation. And, but also like, I enjoy
being vulnerable. Like I understand the value of
that. I connect most with my friends
and my people when we're both vulnerable and we can lean into
our struggles and what we're going through and where what
we've been through and how we got out of it.
And I think we can all learn from that.
So I probably sold myself short of connection with people

(07:58):
because of that, you know, alone.
We know that people don't connect on strengths and they
connect on their vulnerabilitiesand their struggles, you know,
and so, but on the other, on the, you know, flip side, I do
think there's something about about me that just wants to stay
strong, stay positive, head up and kind of be that guy, you

(08:22):
know, even though we've all beenthrough stuff.
And so. So, yeah, for better or worse, I
think that's just sort of the approach I've taken.
And I think the people I'll surrender myself with have
allowed me just to lean in on the music and the brand and not
worry so much about the personaland the struggles and the, and
the real life stuff, you know? And so, so, yeah, I think I
probably sold myself short and I'll probably sell the fans

(08:44):
short on the really letting themin on, on who I am and giving
them things that they can connect with and grasp onto
other than just, oh, that's the that's the guy that was in FGL
and he's a songwriter in Nashville.
And, you know, that's about whatthey know.
They might know that I'm incredibly in love with my wife
and my 3 kids, but that's about the extent of it, you know?

(09:06):
Well, I have a hunch and I just got a little clear on, I don't
know if it's right or not. I'll fish with you a little bit
is I do think you're you, you'rereally principled.
I know that about you. If there's anything I see you
get frustrated or aggravated with with other people, yourself
or other people. If anybody pushes into your
principles or your integrity or you feel like you're getting out
of alignment. So it sounds like if your

(09:28):
perspective on vulnerability wascause 'cause you, What's ironic
is, is you're exactly right. You practice that in real life.
I know that 'cause we get it, we're friends.
You, you literally lead and practice for that.
That's why I've always said I was like, man, I had no idea.
Two years into our friendship, Iwas like, whoa, there's so much
more done in this guy than I ever knew as a fan of your work

(09:49):
and your music, and you live that way.
And yet putting yourself out there to, you started to feel a
little bit like a a victim. And I think when you see that,
if you see people trying to capitalize on their pain
stories, it probably pushes intointegrity and congruency and
honesty. I think you're right.
Yeah, exactly. Capitalizing on that is probably

(10:10):
a good word where it's like, youknow, I don't want to use this.
I don't want to use the loss of my dad as a as a opportunity to
talk about pour pitiful me or even bring people to my world or
use that to capitalize on tryingto sell music or any of that.
Like, you know, so that's a good, you know, or even you

(10:32):
know, even the false narratives that have been out there, you
know, and taking the approach ofI was just not pouring any gas
on the fire and it'll eventuallydie out.
You know, like that whole mentality too, of just sort of
taking like that kind of goes a little bit against who I am as a
person. You know, I like to kind of take
things head on and I attack things.
And I'm, you know, I like to setthe record straight, be

(10:53):
truthful, be honest. And I'm a, I'm a very straight
shooter. And so, you know, even even
advice like that sometimes has, but it's also easy for me to buy
into that because it's like, well, yeah, I don't necessarily
need to lean into these things or that things.
I'll just stick to the what we're trying to promote or
whatever and stick to the basicsand check the boxes and do that.

(11:13):
And and so, yeah, I'd say, you know, those two things both have
kind of been probably helped me back a bit to leaning into that,
you know. I'm curious if there's another
factor and I'll just ask you about it 'cause I can take the,
I'll take the liberty and probably be a little bit more
risk forward since we're buddies.
I can miss it and you can add itback.
It's just fine. Is there any part of you that

(11:38):
you mentioned the lost your dad?And I'd like to, I'd like to get
into that. I want to hear a little bit more
about Roy and kind of that party, that chapter, your story.
But before we get there, is there any part of you that we
was it RE-20? Is there any part of you that
feels like you're protecting that 20 year old tart that lost
his dad way too soon? And, and you feel like if you
open that portal up to other people that it might be more

(12:01):
than you're bargaining for. I don't know.
Maybe a little bit, you know, but I've but I've also kind of
leaned in, not super publicly, you know, but I've kind of dove
in head first on that a few times, you know.
But again, I do think it's one of those it's just one of those
topics. It's just easier to I love

(12:22):
talking about my dad. I love talking about the story
when people ask. But other than that, it's not
one of those things that you just want to bring up all the
time, you know, that you really want to dive back in and relive
all the time or, you know, even carry that emotion or that
weight or the trauma of that happening.
Even though I've I've come a long way since then, Obviously
it's been 18 years, but it's still the biggest trauma I've

(12:47):
ever been through and the biggest life changing moment of
my life, you know, as far as that goes.
And so so yeah, that might be a part of that.
This a bit protective, you know,and kind of in my head, it's
like, all right, I'm I've dealt with that enough or, or, you
know, talked about it enough or whatever the case may be just to

(13:08):
kind of not put it under the rug, but at least let it live in
the back seat, you know? Yeah, it makes sense.
And I think there's a differencebetween 'cause I, I don't, I'm
kind of turned off a little bit too by the concept of, of a
blame cycle or a victim mentality.
But I think there's a far stretch between using a victim
narrative for gain, either self protection or to capitalize and

(13:30):
pull people in versus just beingvulnerable about your life.
Here's the things that have beenhard.
Here's the things I put togetherthat have helped me get through
those things. That's the conversation you
would have all the time. And I, I think that clouding one
with the other when there's a big gap between the two could be

(13:50):
part of the challenge. And the only reason I bring that
up up front, it's not that I intended to work out that
narrative in front of all of ourfriends here, But I do think I
love that you're stretching and I, I want to see you get more
comfortable doing that. But I think people need to be
thoughtful about the why behind what they're, what they're about
to partake on. And I think you've shared with

(14:11):
me, I, I do feel in this season that I'm more ready to share
myself. I'm ready to go let people know
who I am, not who I was when hadthat 10 years big run with FGS,
who I am now as dad, father and husbands.
Yeah, some of that has to do with my past.
Some of it has to do with my present.
I'm so proud of that and excitedfor that.
And I want to make sure you really get your feet into the

(14:33):
why because I've seen a lot of people get out front with what's
working and it kind of pimp vulnerability.
I've seen this when vulnerability got cool and
started to trend and I've done it.
I've made the mistake. I literally have gotten up on
stages before and probably over shared some current part of my
story because I felt like that'swhat the room needed to warm
them up emotionally or whatever.And then you catch yourself
later and it's like, what was that about?

(14:54):
What's the why behind that? Was I trying to get some kind of
validation I didn't need or blah, blah, blah.
Try to get something out of them, manipulate the scenario.
I think it's good to always zoomout and check ourselves.
But you, you and I both have watched that trend where whether
they be pastors or artists or politicians, where you kind of
pimp out your your vulnerability.

(15:16):
And I know enough to know that that's not what you're after.
But I also know you're putting on a new pair of shoes.
And so I just that's why I wanted to usher in the Yi think
the Y is pretty is pure. Yeah.
And I'm excited to see you step into it.
Thanks Miles. I appreciate it.
If you've been listening to thispodcast, then you probably
already have picked U that doinginner work to try to optimize

(15:37):
your lives in relationship is not something that you can just
think your way into. It's something that takes a
minute to pause and to take a look under the hood with people
that you really trust and care about.
And I am so fortunate. You've probably heard us mention
on site a time or two and it it that's my baby.
I get to work with the best teamin the world that offers these

(15:58):
immersive experiences, therapeutic coaching, counseling
opportunities for people to comein for a few days and take a
look at what matters most and how we re prioritize our
relationships and and get our feet on the ground emotionally,
spiritually. If you'd like to check out any
of our services, we have a camp beautiful campus just outside
Nashville and Tennessee and another one in Southern

(16:19):
California just outside San Diego.
We also offer some things online.
We have a longer program called milestones that that serves
people that have experienced a lot of stress for traumatic
circumstances in their lives. But if, if we can support you in
any way, I would encourage you to check out experience
on-site.com and, and you can, you can call us at

(16:42):
1-800-341-7432. And look, our services don't
have to be the services you engage with.
It doesn't cost anything to makea phone call.
As a matter of fact, we train our folks to be able to help
triage and, and refer people to the right resource wherever you
may be. We're just in this to try to
help people collect dots, connect dots, optimize their

(17:04):
lives in relationship, and trulylive into who you can become.
Let's talk about, so talk about the origin story.
Let's go back just a little bit.I want people to hear a little
bit about that. Tell me about growing up.
What was it like for you? Where'd you grow?
Up. Yeah, man, I just grew up real
small town, kind of stereotypical country lifestyle
growing up. Small town Georgia, little place

(17:25):
called Monroe, right outside of Athens, very middle class, very
blue collar, very hard working family.
I grew up, you know, loving being outside doing everything.
And you know, from fishing to riding my dirt bike to jumping
on the trampoline and playing basketball.
I got a lot of memories of just being a kid.
And now my kids are 5-6 and seven and I literally just watch

(17:48):
them do the same thing. And it just takes me back to
being being a kid, you know, running around outside and
climbing trees and kind of your what you sort of envisioned the
American dream as a kid being just small town life, shooting
BB guns and just, you know, kindof hanging out outside and being
adventurous. And so that's majority of my

(18:10):
early years. I do have, I mean, if we go way
back when I was really young, mydad, my dad, we we'd load up a
trailer every weekend and go race motor, go race motocross
across the Southeast. So there was also a very rigid
part of my life. There was a very like almost
military style work ethic slash,yeah, work ethic even around

(18:36):
dirt bikes. I mean, racing motocross at the
time was very serious even at like 5 years old to be honest.
And I remember. Uber competitive.
Uber competitive, right? And I just remember, you know,
for better or worse, dad was like, if you know, you need to
be practicing every day, you know you're going to be with the
best, you need to race with the best and beat.
You know, if you, if you're going to be the best, you got to

(18:57):
want it and practice every day. And eventually I just got to the
point I was probably 8 years old.
I just remember being like that.I don't want to practice every
day. Like you can sell it.
I don't. I don't want to do.
This said that at 8:00. Yeah.
And so I was just burnt out. And anyways, I just remember
being like, all I want to do is jump on the trampoline with my
friends and hang out. I don't want to be, you know,

(19:18):
essentially pursuing a collegiate level athletic career
at 7 years old. And so anyways, just, yeah, just
very simple life. Grew up bouncing around school
to school. Moved down to Gulf Shores one
year with my family when I was in 6th grade, Went to school
down there. My dad thought it'd be fun.
We bought a condo as an investment.

(19:39):
And then he got a wild hair and thought, let's just live at the
beach. So of course, in 6th grade,
there's nothing better than living on the beach, you know?
And so did that for a year. Then we miss George and miss the
country and ended up moving homeand my dad was in the mini
warehouse business and he was a bit of an entrepreneur and

(20:00):
didn't and was in the tree service business as well and did
a lot. I mean basically that's what he
did when he passed was in the tree service business.
And so I worked with him quite abit, you know, my teenage years
for him, I should say. And then decided just like my
dad decided I'd rather work for myself and work for anyone else.
And so. Pretty quickly I I started my

(20:23):
business detailing cars when I was 15.
Had my mom drive me around, dropme off at A at a client's house
and I'd stay there for six 7-8 hours and detail their car all
day and she'd come pick me up and.
How'd you learn to detail car? Man, I had one of my dad's
friend named Ryan spent a weekend with me and he had a old
suburban that was just grungy and dirty.

(20:45):
And we spent, we spent about 12 hours inside and out pressure
washing the inside and doing, I mean, really deep cleaning the
suburban. And we got finished with it.
And I just remember being so proud of it and looking at just
sitting in the driveway looking at it and thinking, man, we just
brought that car to life. I mean, this is incredible.
And I'm and it kind of work towards my personality of pretty

(21:05):
type, a pretty OCD, really liking to work and see the
results of my work that day kindof thing, you know, And so very
rewarding for me at that age. And so I took a lot of pride in
that and said I'll be the best car detailer in Georgia, you
know, and bought a little enclosed trailer, lettered it
up, started a business and endedup quitting all my sports I was

(21:26):
playing in high school, which was just baseball and basketball
because yeah, by the time I got my license, I was ready to go.
I'd rather go wash cars and makemoney, you know, and so, so I
did that all through, you know, 1617 and 18.
Felt like that drive at that agecame from the five and
eight-year. Old, I think so, yeah.
My just watching my dad and the hustle and and the drive and the

(21:47):
things that he had taught me over the years and I thought,
man, I want to, you know, I enjoy building something.
This is fun. I'm just like, I was a like a
lot like my dad in a lot of ways, but specifically that way
for sure. It's very driven.
Yeah, very driven, very challenged oriented, loved a
good challenge, you know. What happened to that
conversation back when you were 8 and told him I don't want to

(22:07):
do this anymore? Did you?
It was. Pretty natural.
I mean, it was one of those things where I mean, I, I
enjoyed working with him becausethat was our time together, you
know, but it became pretty intense, you know, to be honest.
And he was pretty hard on me and, and I'm grateful for it.
But I remember, I mean, I was the only white dude on the crew
basically. Maybe maybe there was another
guy or two, but it was mainly Hispanic crew that was just, you

(22:31):
know, super strong, super fast, like you name it.
And my dad was like, no, you, you don't, you do not let them
out work you, you do not let them beat you to that limb or
whatever. Like it was, it was.
This is. When I was in the tree business
with dad, you know, you know, 131415 years old.
And so, yeah, I just really learned, man, I really like

(22:51):
being out here by myself rubbingon this car and listen to listen
to the radio all day and gettingsun tan and not having anybody
tell me what to do or how to do it, you know, and, and he was
proud of me. I mean, he helped me.
He he taught me business that hetaught me how to get clients,
how to get repeat customers, theimportance of your value of your
work. And at the beginning, he would
show up after I was done and like, really look the car over

(23:13):
and drop, really try to find, you know, some cracks in the,
you know, or, you know, whateverit was a spot I missed or this
or that. So he also taught me the the
importance of being diligent anddoing a good job and working
hard. And so, yeah, I got to reap the
benefits of that. Were you keeping?
Were you keeping the books and everything?
Yeah, I mean, it was simple books, but yeah, exactly.

(23:34):
You collected payments? Yeah, you do the sales, the
collection and. All of it.
I go home and divide it up into my 3 little envelopes and you
know, savings, spending, tithingand.
And yeah, he taught me, taught me all that kind of stuff, which
was really great, obviously on asmall scale, but I was making a
heck of a lot more money than anybody else in high school, you

(23:54):
know, just doing that and, and, and having the freedom.
I think for me, I just like the feeling of freedom.
And I think having a little bit of pocket change in high school
really gives a kid the freedom to say, yeah, I'm going to do
something this weekend or take my girl out or whatever.
Where most of my friends were working for 7 bucks an hour at
CVS, you know, and really there was no freedom in that.
So, so yeah, I was already kind of planting the seeds of this is

(24:17):
how I like to operate and figuring that out about myself.
And, and honestly, Miles, I did car detailing all the way
through college. Like I took my trailer up to
school and that was my job all through school as well.
That I would, you know, set my own hours, work when I could,
but make enough money to kind ofhave some play money and and got

(24:38):
me through school as well. So up until music took off, that
was kind of my main. That was your gig.
That was my gig. I know, I know, know you today
and know that you like things super clean and organized.
As if I wasn't already OCD enough.
Detailing cars for 10 years. Man, it really, it really takes
it. Until the next do you think the
OCD started with the car business or before the.

(24:59):
Car it was before. I mean, I remember like being a
kid waking up, like making my bed perfectly.
Like my clothes had to be all like folded, right, put in the
way, right. You know, I was even ironing my
clothes at a weird age or a young age, you know, like kids
are ironing their clothes at 10 years old.
But I don't know. I just, I don't know what it
was. My mom was kind of like that.

(25:21):
My dad not as much. My mom was, you know, and she
also would teach me at a early age how to clean, how to vacuum,
how to clean the bathroom, how to do all the things.
And I think I've always had a desire to make my parents proud.
So I'm sure that was part of it too.
And whether it was working outside for Dad, even cutting
the grass, like I did that for years, that was my kind of role
in the house. And we had big a big yard, you

(25:42):
know, like 4 1/2 acres of grass I had to mow as a kid.
And so even doing that, I just remember very, very specific
getting done and making sure those lines were dead straight,
you know what I mean? Like, I want Dad to come home
and be like, wow, this is incredible.
You know, landscape companies aren't doing this good.
And so, yeah, I guess I've just sort of always had that whatever

(26:05):
I'm doing, I want to do it great.
But when it comes to being tidy and organized and orderly and
structured, that's that's like teeing myself up to be, to try
to do something great. You know what I mean?
It's one less thing. And maybe it's a bit of A at
this point, I think maybe it's abit of a control thing.
You know, in my life is so chaotic and hectic, but at 15 it

(26:27):
wasn't hectic and I was still that same exact way.
So. Well, I think it's important to
hear that cause part of what we'll do throughout the
conversation is I want to be able to try to extract and, and
cherry pick certain things that I think people can relate to
patterns, themes, which you identified.
Because sometimes the thing thatlater, and it may or may not be,
you just alluded that sometimes it might be a, a challenge.

(26:48):
It's kind of a gift and a curve.Totally.
But often the things that are shadow parts of our stories
later in life are real value adds early on.
And so that probably was a huge part of your childhood that was
perceivably served you well, that you were neat, you cared,
you had passion, all the stuff that came with it.
Often compulsive and obsessive behaviors are a response to

(27:15):
overt pressure because if we feel pressure, and I know you
alluded to having a little bit when you're in the early and the
kid motorcycle days, for sure, then you recognize at some
point, and I'm not, I don't knowif this fits for you or not.
You recognize at some point thatthere's only so much I can do,
so much practice I can do to tryto be successful on this track.
And then there's certain parts that I can't control the

(27:36):
outcome. And then if you've got a big
push behind you, then often you'll be like, what can I
control? And so sometimes you find
pockets and patterns of I can control this.
And often that's an origin storyfor OCD.
We've never talked about whetherit's, I don't know if you're
joking or if you've ever got ever gotten a formal diagnosis
of OCD or. No, I usually say it and in a
casual way, but certainly just very orderly and neat.

(28:00):
And, and yeah, I think what you said of just a little bit of
control, control what you can control and do it well, I think
that's kind of my MO and on a good day and let go what you
can't control, but what you can control.
Let's crush it, you know what I mean?
And you were driven, you were entrepreneurially driven at a
super early age. And when you, when you got money

(28:21):
that you're cut, your friends didn't have it 15 to 17.
We I guess you mentioned it whenyou said you take your girl out
on the weekend. But did did you also get taught
the financial strategies to be conservative and save and all
that, or were you spending it orwould you?
Like to no, it was pretty. It was pretty based around
saving and being smart with yourmoney and spending money wisely.

(28:43):
And I mean, I would say I would spend money on, for example, I
just had a flashback. I would save up 1000 bucks and
at the time that was a decent amount of money, you know what I
mean? And then I would go to the and
then I would go down to the car auction and I'd buy a car for
1000 bucks. It was potentially worth 2000
bucks. And I'd go home and spend all
day cleaning it up and making itlook like a $5000 car.

(29:05):
And then I'll set it out by the road and sell it for 2500.
You know what? I'm.
Yeah. What age?
I'll probably do that like 10 or15 times at like that age, like
16 years. It's cool, I didn't know that.
Never heard that part of your story.
So yeah, I would just take, well, I can clean a car well, so
how can I turn what would just be 150 bucks or 100 bucks into

(29:27):
1000 bucks, you know, and so. You just go down there and pay
cash for it. Yeah, at the auction, yeah.
And then you drive it home, clean it up and flip it.
Mm. Hmm.
Exactly. Yeah.
And, and that was fun. I mean, that was like I started
to feel like a big kid, you knowwhat I mean?
I'm like, wow, I'm like out herebuying and flipping cars.
And obviously they were just cheap cars, but if they ran, I
could clean them up well and andresell them.

(29:48):
So yeah, that was fun. And also dad was just really
smart in a way where he would help me turn a dollar into two,
you know, or figure out hey, or set goals.
I mean, I remember him saying, like, man, it'd be incredible if
you could like you should set a goal to try to have 10 grand in
your in your bank account by thetime you graduate high school.
And that goal I never reached, to be honest at all.

(30:10):
I think I might have had two grand or something when I but
still, like as a high school kid, you know, I was making
pretty, pretty decent money and,and trying to be smart with it
and learning those learning those things and I wasn't a big
spender. I'd probably would just kind of
spend it on what you would imagine, you know, maybe a
speaker for my truck and maybe take my girlfriend on a date

(30:31):
here and there and hang out withmy friends, but nothing really
crazy. I didn't have money to I wasn't
making that kind of money to figure out where am I going to
blow this? It was more like all right.
And then I was learning to like if you make 100 bucks, you
really only keeping 40 of it. You know, pretty early on I was
learning and then forty of its good play money, But you want to
probably maybe I want to buy myself something or just put

(30:52):
some diesel in the truck, you know.
So it was a, you know, just all those lessons that you learn
when you start making a little bit.
And you so you decided to take the business with you when you
went to when did you went to college?
Yeah. I mean, I took that business
with me everywhere, even when I.Did you want to go to college?
Did you know college was coming?No, this is a funny story.
I was, I thought college isn't for me because my it wasn't for

(31:15):
my dad. I really don't like school.
I did every, I did everything I could.
Just a scrape by in high school.Not that I wasn't a smart kid, I
could have made straight A's. I just didn't care about it and
didn't want to. And so I made straight B's and
AC here and there and it was fine.
But I wasn't passionate about education or learning or school,

(31:35):
right. At least that was what I told
myself at the time. And then so I was just in my
mind, I was just going to be like dad, I was just going to
get my college degree and start building a business, you know,
And if it was car detailing, I'll be the biggest detailer in
Georgia. And if it's something else, then
so be it. But I, I want to start working,
you know, and start and instead of going to school.

(31:57):
And so that was what I was goingto do.
And then I took a couple collegevisits with some friends and
thought, man, this is like, thisdoesn't feel like high school,
you know, like this looks kind of fun.
And then I really started feeling like, man, this might be
something that I regret if I don't do this because I think
I'll miss out on a lot of fun and good memories.

(32:19):
And I had a few people tell me, like, man, like you could take a
year or two off and go to college, but ultimately, like,
if you don't go now, you're probably not going to go.
And it's only four years and youcan work after school.
You got your whole life to work.I started hearing all that and I
started thinking, you know what,it can't hurt.
My parents agreed to pay for me to go to school if I pass my
classes. So why wouldn't I go, right?

(32:39):
So I, I applied to a few schoolsthat I've been to in Georgia and
thought that was cool, ended up getting into one and thought
that's where I'll go. I think it was Georgia Southern
or something like that. And, and then I came to
Nashville for a passion conference with my high school,
which I graduated from a small Christian School.

(33:00):
I went there the last three years of high school was the
first class to graduate from this really small Christian
School. We had 12 kids in my class and,
and it was super small, but, butit was good for me.
And like I said, I got to end upleading worship for the for the
band at school and I LED worshipat my church and really started
getting my feet wet with music stuff in high school.

(33:21):
But anyways, we went to Nashville for the Passion
Conference when I was a probablya junior actually, is that.
Passion Conference. The same thing it is today I.
Think it is, Yeah. Louie and Chris Tomlin and all
the guys. And it was at Bridgestone Arena
and I and I went and had an incredible experience and then
really fell in love with Nashville and told my parents,
like, Nashville's awesome. I love Nashville.

(33:42):
We came up here as a family to visit Nashville and to visit
Belmont and ended up thinking, man, you know, maybe I should go
to college. And if I do go to college, like
what am I going to study? And all this was conversations.
I mean, I had, like I said, I had shown interest in going to
some of these schools in Georgia, but didn't really know
what I wanted to study. And then I, it kind of hit me
that, you know, music is a passion of mine.

(34:06):
It's becoming a passion. Maybe if I study something in
the music realm, I'll be able tostay interested enough to make
it through four years of college, you know?
Let's bookmark there for a second because I would I'd like
to hear where that spark startedto go back.
Like when did that music passionstart?
To go back to me, it started in church.
Honestly, it started probably 7th grade.

(34:28):
I just remember music being sucha direct connection with Jesus
and that was that was one of my favorite ways to connect with
him. So it became really powerful in
my life and and meanwhile, musichad played a fun role in my
life. Nothing serious, but we grew up.
I love country radio. We were always listening to
music. My dad was not a major music fan

(34:49):
or make music guy. We didn't go to a bunch of
concerts, but just a lot of Rd. trips and time together in the
truck and just listening to music.
And then, you know, music was just sort of a, a part of my
life in Georgia, you know, rap music, country music.
Rock I was going to say because we we're on a workout schedule
with some buddies for years and that was such a fun season.

(35:10):
We need to talk. About that at some point.
But it was straight up hardcore gangster rap, what we start,
what we were working out too. Easily right?
And I've seen you rap, you know,you got a little swaggy.
So I I would have just assumed you grew up on hip.
Hop. Yeah, mainly hip hop a lot.
Country who? Introduced you to I.
Would say mainly hip hop when myparents weren't around.
That's what I should say. I mean, the pocket of Georgia

(35:32):
where I grew up in it was very, I don't know, music, music taste
was, I mean, that's just what weall listened to.
It was just a hip hop culture. I don't know if it was just
because it was Atlanta, close toAtlanta, or an hour from
Atlanta, or what the case was, but.
Huge hip hop Very. Diverse town, lot of my friends

(35:54):
are black kids. We and we just loved hip hop and
we just, you know, some of the first music I made actually
created was me and three or fourbuddies in high school just
trying to make rap beats and making songs in our closet.
You know, so between me really having an interest in music and
starting to have an interest in writing songs as I learned to

(36:15):
play guitar, I started thinking,man, it'd be fun to write songs
and start writing songs and thenstarting to just experiment with
my buddies like making these beats and making these songs is
like, man, this is really kind of fun.
And then also getting the opportunity from a live
perspective in church to get to lead worship, not only for my
school, but for my youth group in my church, right.
So I was experience. I was just sort of, you know,

(36:41):
music. Music was sort of my life in
some capacities in high school. You just got kind of immersed
with it. Yeah, immersed with it, yeah.
That the school you, you the school that you were in, I guess
it was a public school up until you got in that smaller
Christian School towards the last two, yeah.
So this is an interesting thing about me.
Two miles. I, I don't know what this says
about me, but I've joked for years and said I just enjoy

(37:04):
being the new kid 'cause I wouldbounce around from school to
school. Like every couple of years,
looking back, I went to the Monroe, I went to Monroe
Elementary School, I went to Monroe Middle School, then I
went to, then I went to Gulf Shores for a year and went to
that school was obviously the new kid.
Then I came back to the public school and everybody treated me

(37:24):
like I was a new kid 'cause he'sback, you know?
And it was like, yeah, this is awesome.
And then I don't know, a year ortwo after that, I've moved to a
little private school that was actually in Monroe as well
called George Walton Academy. Big, you know, big private
school. Stayed there for a couple years.
Realize that's not my scene. Went back to the high school,

(37:48):
the public school, which felt athome, but it was, it was a
different scene for sure, a little bit rougher scene.
And then my after my freshman year of high school, I do
remember feeling like, man, thisis, this is rough.
Like I just feel. And at the time as well, I was
like pursuing Jesus. And I was just like really

(38:09):
feeling pulled in that direction.
And I just feel like, man, this is just, this is a dark school
and I'm just kind of like, you know.
Too many temptations. It just felt like not not a
great fit, not a not. So I explored options and I
said, well, there's this Christian School and 2025
minutes away, Loganville Christian Academy and had a
couple of my friends that went there.
That's always honestly too at that age, like, oh, my friends

(38:32):
just went to that school. I want to go over here, you
know, and some of that. But ultimately, I did enjoy
being the new kid and the shiny new, the new student for the
year or two. And then that would wear off and
I'm like, all right, time to move.
But. In that in any of the schools
you were in, of all the ones youlisted, was were you ever was
was it mostly majority black, majority white?
The. Public school was majority

(38:53):
black, like 80% black and then the Christian, the private
schools were like majority white, like 90% white.
So it was culturally it was drastically different, which I
enjoy because I was, I could be quite a bit of a chameleon.
I really could fit in at either one of those schools and knew

(39:14):
the role to play. But I tell you, it was
interesting when I went from thepublic school to the small
Christian School, it was an absolute culture shock because
where I where I had come from, how you talk to the teachers,
how you carry yourself, how you acted, how you behaved, how you
looked at authority, all that was done in a certain way.

(39:35):
And then when you move to this small Christian School, very
conservative and very, you know,young, I would say it was AI
learned in like a day, like, Oh,the kids don't think this is
cool here. Like I'm like, kids are
wondering, like, what am I doing?
You know what I mean? And again, I quickly, I sort of,

(39:55):
I knew the church culture enough.
I've been in the, I've been in this world enough to realize
like, oh, I see, I see what we're doing here.
You know what I mean? Like.
My approach has got to shift andit did.
And it was probably for the better because then I spent
three years at that school and Istill, I, I still was probably
more of the rebellious type for sure.
But I was also the worship leader and had a leadership

(40:16):
role. And they kind of put this like,
you know, they put this whole thing on me where I had to be
above approach and this and that, but they were also
figuring things out. Great school and great people.
But yeah, you know, figuring out, are we going to, are we
going to, how much pressure are we going to put on these kids
that took their shirts? And like, how important is that?
Well, at the time it was pretty important.
But for me, I'm like, you guys are missing the point, you know

(40:38):
what I mean? And so I struggled a little bit
with authority, but to be honestand being respectful in those
things in my early years. What you mean your early years
and even through high school? Yeah, I was about to say, well,
now that I'm thinking about it, maybe that's just something I've
carried with me, but. Well, it's interesting that the
diversity that you grew up in because that when you got to to

(41:00):
Tennessee and I was, I bought, Igrew up in primarily country
music, little bit of gospel music.
And then my palate got really diverse too, but not because I
was in diversity. I was just weird that I liked
hip hop and I like rock, I like heavy metal.
I liked all that stuff, even though country was what was most
influenced by culturally. But you when I would watch you

(41:21):
and you got a real southern accent, but you got a hip hop
swagger in a way. And I've seen you like make
beats and beat by and I'm like, what?
Where do you get all that? I've been one of the first times
I went down on the road with youguys years ago and I think maybe
Nellie was on tour with you. Probably so and might have been
some extracurricular stuff happened on the bus.
But Nellie. But it was I was amazed.

(41:43):
Was he and his crew there and watching you just fold right
into that, into that culture, that hip hop culture.
And I was like, that's not a small town country South Georgia
kid. So I knew that influence had to
come in somewhere. It's really interesting to hear
that piece. Yeah, honestly, like in Monroe,
if you go there, you'll realize like, OK, you got your very
small town farming guys, you gotfarmers.

(42:06):
And then there's this funny fun little like mixing bowl where
they also grow up with all theseblack kids and these black kids
grow up with all these white farming kids.
So there's a really cool dynamicthere, to be honest.
It's a very, it's unique actually when I moved away and
realized even to Nashville, I'm like, oh wow, that was that

(42:26):
culture was a bit unique for sure, you know, and even when I
moved here. Nashville would be a lot more.
It was majority wipes, more segregated.
Yeah, you can imagine going to Belmont at 18 years old and all
of a sudden people from all overthe country are are new to
Nashville, they're new to college.
They're all 18 year old kids from all over backgrounds,
different scenarios and stories.And I just realized like, Oh

(42:46):
yeah, wow. Like where I came from is
definitely a bit unique for surein that aspect.
Most of the guys that were that look like me and acted like me
were drawn to a certain crew in college.
And I was kind of drawn to the other crew.
You know, I was, I was drawn to the black guys and I was drawn
to the athletes and I was drawn to those people and but also

(43:07):
stayed true to myself because that's just what we, you know,
like that's just what it was in Georgia.
I didn't know any different, youknow, and so.
Well, I think it's important. I'll finish that.
Think about that sentence. I'd love to hear you finish it.
Because I stayed true to myself.Because I will say, most of the
great artists that I've had an opportunity to be friends with
and work with, if they've had success at all, commercial

(43:27):
success is they really had this through line where they knew how
to stay true to who they were atsome level.
So many of us lose ourself in our profession.
It happens to the best of them, but I notice you really try to
do that. And I'm curious, you said it
kind of comes from where you grew up, but anywhere else you
might have picked that up where that was just really important
to you? Either of your parents do that?

(43:50):
Yeah, I would say, I would say definitely I got, I was blessed
to have a good example from my parents, from so many aspects,
to be honest. Had great parents.
Yeah, my dad certainly, I mean, was big, you know, stay true to
who he was. He talked about how he was
raised and how he grew up and, you know, he he was, he was

(44:12):
consistent, you know what I mean?
He was the same guy every day, you know, And I think even even
me leaning into who I leaned into and connecting with who I
am, being drawn to the people that I was drawn to in Nashville
right away was probably me staying true to myself, right?
And in general, even though it looked a bit different than
maybe you would expect, but. Will you make it sound easy?
And for a lot of people, it's not.

(44:33):
I'm thinking about my story, forexample.
I didn't. I don't know that I got that
imprint. I might have got that imprint,
but I didn't know how to actualize it or facilitate it
for myself. Because I remember when I was
doing my first internship in undergrad, it was in Absecon,
NJ, and I was going to be in a sports agent at the time.

(44:55):
That's where I thought I was going to go.
And so it was an LPGA golf tournament and I was there for
for two months kind of learning how to do all that.
And I was putting together, I had to put together the pro am.
It was one of my duties. And that's where big the the
sponsors play with the pro it's in.
And so I had to call the sponsors.
Usually the sponsors are wealthyentrepreneurs or business men or

(45:16):
women. And I remember I was straight
out of Hornwall, Tennessee and my accent was thick, thick,
thick like you had some people would have to ask me and say,
what did you say? Sold me down And I went to
straight up in the Northeast straight and hard to do.
And so here I am cold calling these bit, you know, these
people at these companies like, Hey, this is my house, you know,
and I had some interesting, I had some New York responses.

(45:39):
Who the F are you? What are you doing call blah,
blah. The minute I got that blowback,
I was like, I better change. And I remember I learned quickly
how to neutralize my language and my accent so that I could
fit in a little bit more. Now, I don't necessarily think
that's a bad skill per SE, but Ihave that's one example of that
period of my life. It was almost like a survival

(46:01):
instinct. Whoever I'm around, I need to be
more like. And then it ultimately came at a
cost for me later on. And so not everybody has that
skill. And I do.
I will, I will affirm you for that because that is a through
line. Doesn't matter where you are,
who you're talking to, Presidentof the United States or
somebody, you are yourself. Nothing changes.
I love that. Well.
I appreciate it, man. And I will say I've used the

(46:23):
word chameleon a bit. I mean, there are times where
I'm like, Oh yeah, I just sort of shit.
I just even Haley be like, wow, you just really just turned into
basically you just fit right into that crew like no problem.
And again, there's there's part of it that's like, well, it's
because I have experience with this culture and I and it feels
like home to me or, and I had. So that's sort of a gift too, to

(46:45):
be able to sort of shift around and I'm not changing for someone
specifically, but I do have multiple experiences in
different cultures that allows me to fit in with the farmers
and the country hunters and the and the country boys.
And then also, you know, different cultures that I've
been able to be around. So, so I do think that's a gift,
but even you just, you just had made me have a flashback.

(47:06):
I remember being, and maybe it was an early age where I just
accepted like this is who I am and I'm going to be proud of it.
But I remember when I moved to Gulf Shores, AL of all places
was in 6th grade and I had a couple of new friends.
One of the one guy was probably my best buddy down there.
And I remember being I'll never forget this.
Actually. We're out of school or walking
to the carpool line and I asked this kid, I say, can you help me

(47:29):
talk? Right, because I was getting a
lot of like lat people were laughing at me from my accent.
That's why I said in Alabama of all places, but it was Gulf
Shores. It was on the coast.
It wasn't your typical like kindof real thick Alabama.
And so I just remember like asking this kid to help me learn
how to talk where people didn't laugh at me.

(47:49):
And then I don't remember. That was short lived.
I think he just sounded said like whatever, you know, like,
obviously that conversation didn't go very far, but I think
at that point, maybe I just decided, you know what, like I'm
not changing how I talk because people are laughing at me.
And at some point I think there's also this thing about me

(48:12):
two miles that I think it's important to notice or to note.
I've learned about myself when Igo back and look at my, my past,
I'm like, you know what I like to do whenever someone's doing
something, especially if there'sa large group of people doing
something or pursuing something or doing this, I'll, I'll go the
opposite direction, completely opposite.

(48:33):
Because whether it's just a desire to stand out, whether
it's a desire to go against the grain, I don't know, but it's
what I'm naturally drawn to. So if I like, for example, when
I went to Belmont thinking I wasgoing to dive into music and
figure out how to be great and learn all the music business
stuff, well guess what? Everybody at Belmont was going
to go there and do that and theywere great.

(48:53):
Is a massive music Business School.
So everybody's not only there tostudy music business, but
they're incredible musicians andartists and singers.
And I just thought, oh wow, I'm just one fish swimming in the
same pod the same direction. Like I put my guitar away for
like 3 years and didn't even getit out.
And I was the guy said, how can I stand out around here?
Oh, I'm the guy that now, right,I got a crotch rocket.

(49:16):
I'll buy a bike and I'll I'll bethe guy that hangs out with the
athletes and rides my dirt bike or my straight bike around
campus and, you know, the socialite, if you will, and just
hang out. Just be this guy.
I don't want to be known as somebody else just trying to
pursue music, you know? Where do you think that comes
from, that going against the grain or that contrary point of
view? That's a good question.

(49:41):
I mean, it's, I think part of itis my dad, I mean, he kind of
had that untraditional approach on life, you know, do what
people say you can't do, try to accomplish, you know, what
people say you can't accomplish and and do things differently,
you know, try to think outside the box and go against the

(50:02):
grain. And I mean, he didn't really say
that to me. I think I just was drawn to that
kind of approach and I think he reflected it well.
And I also think maybe some of this is out of selfish, but even
even like thinking about what I was talking about with bouncing
around schools, I think it was just how can I, I don't want to
be, I just don't want to be one in another number of somebody

(50:25):
doing the same thing at maybe it's how do I stand out?
You know, that's probably the, that's probably the underlying
statement that, you know, for better or worse, whether it's
for attention or whether it's just for whatever reason, like
how do I, how do I be different?How do I stand out?
Well, it may tie. It may be tied also because I
think I've got some of this too,but it may be tied to that early

(50:47):
pressure message. The only way, if you're going to
do this, you got to do it. Everyday and just do what
everybody else is doing and. It's almost like that developed
the mindset and for some people,I think you may have that
mindset organically, but usuallywe get it mirrored or modeled to
us in some way. And and it seems like so far in
your story, it's really working in your favor.
Yeah, I think so. Over the course of my life, it

(51:09):
feels like a a positive attribute that works well for
me. You know, even thinking about
back in the day, like everybody else was playing basketball, I
decided, no, well, first of all,I'm not going to be a collegiate
basketball player or in in the NBA.
So I'm going to start washing cars.
I'm going to start something that nobody else is doing.
That's my different approach. Yeah, even though all my friends

(51:30):
were doing it and this and that and I like the social aspect of
it, but I didn't like the the time management part of like I'm
wasting 3 hours after school running up and down a basketball
court to maybe play this weekend, you know?
And so, so yeah, it's just something that as it's part of
what fuels me, I think, and whatdrives me.
And I think it did come from my childhood narrative and, and,

(51:52):
you know, just the way I was brought up.
And then so you found yourself in college and you've got you,
you, you got there. And it wasn't what you thought
it was going to be. There was a whole sea of people
that were super talented. So you put your guitar away,
started running around with the what was it the you said?
Athletes, yeah. Mainly I was feeling like I
connected with the athlete guys the most.
Basketball Baseball team in Belmont.
Or something. Yeah, Basketball in baseball,

(52:16):
guys. Belmont's always have a pretty
good basketball team. Yeah, yeah.
And I just felt like, I don't know, I just hung out with them
and connected with them. And they're obviously a lot of
great friendships developed as well in the music space.
But again, I just kind of put myguitar in the back seat for a
while and just thought everybody's pursuing this and
everybody's so good and I'm not nearly as good as these is these

(52:39):
people, you know? So I'm just going to let me
figure out what I can be good atthat not everybody else is good
at, you know. And so that was the approach in
college. And I think going into college,
I mean, I knew that Belmont was a big music school and I think I
knew what I was getting myself into.
But I think it just once I was in in it once I was there and it
was and I was in the middle, I was just kind of like, you know,

(53:00):
and I don't even think it was intentional.
I little looking back, I wasn't like, OK, I'm not going to do
music. It was just like, oh, wow, I
hadn't gotten my guitar out in like a year.
You know, I thought I was here for music.
And now I'm just not, you know, just trying to get that degree
and make some friends along the way.
And I remember Dad saying this is something that stuck with me
when I'm went to college. I thought this was the best

(53:21):
advice at the time. I didn't really understand it,
but now looking back is the bestadvice.
He did tell me, he said, now son, I, I know college wasn't
for me, but there's a lot of great things that you can learn
in college. And he said, I'll, I'm willing
to pay for you to go to school as long as you pass your
classes. That's the one rule.
If you don't pass, you pay and then you're paying from then on.

(53:43):
And second rule I want you to dois I don't worry about, I don't
care if you make straight A's. I don't care if you make
straight CS. But he's like, I want you to get
to know everyone's name at that school.
And I thought, OK, I can do that.
You know, that sounds. Yeah, I'm a social dude.
At the time, I was really social.
All I want to do is hang out. And so that was sort of my goal.
The four years I was there was let me just get to know

(54:05):
everybody, let me learn everyone's name.
Let me be a social guy and have fun out here while I'm doing it.
And then and, you know, in hindsight, really, it really
pays off because now half these people are working the industry
and half of them are heads of labels or, you know, doing
different things. And you'd be so surprised how
many people, whether they were in my class or not, I run into

(54:27):
or take a meeting with or do something with.
And they're like, yeah, I went to Belmont.
And you're just like, man, like a lot of people went to that
school. So those connections that I
made, and obviously that's whereI'm at BK, that's where the
whole FGL thing started like. Because he he was an athlete.
He was a baseball player. Pitcher maybe?
He was a pitcher, yeah. And so so we kind of ran in the
same circles and knew of each other and, and I knew he dabbled

(54:49):
with music and writing songs. And so our senior year, we kind
of hit it off and decided, man, let's you know, one thing led to
the next and next thing you know, I'm, I'm in a band, you
know, with a baseball player. And, and that was, you know, the
beginning of FGL. But had I not been such a social
guy and kind of done what my dadsaid?
I mean, I may or may not have hung out with the baseball guys

(55:11):
or I may or may not met BK or you know, so in hindsight, it's,
it was good advice. Well, it was, it was kind of
brilliant for your only dad's behalf because EQ outpaces IQ
all day long in terms of predictable success.
And one of the things we don't teach people in developmental
years, you know, zero to 25 really all the way through

(55:33):
college, is the social and emotional and relational
elements of what your vocation will ultimately afford you or
what it will look like downstream.
I will borrow a page out of thatplaybook.
And I want to do it a little earlier than college, but I
hadn't thought about that. It's like the best thing you
could probably do for somebody versus say, can you learn this

(55:54):
text is have you learned how to make a friend?
And in his case, it was a challenge.
I want you to go and nudge you in that direction.
Here's my expectation for you when you go to college.
Exactly. And you had to teach our kids.
Now that you know what I mean, The practical, the implications
of that throughout the rest of your life is never, never goes
away so. And were you, were you and your

(56:16):
dad close all the way up through?
Yeah, we were close. We were really close even
growing up, you know, like we were kind of cut from the same
cloth. We had tons of commonalities,
more than I got a a brother who's two years younger and him
and him and I couldn't be more different, you know, to be
honest. But me and my dad were, we were
buddies. We were super close and, and

(56:39):
yeah, we're getting even closer as I, you know, was growing up
and moving out and going to college and was able to kind of
take on a more of a friendship than just a fatherly, you know,
dictatorship, if you will. So that was fun.
Would it have been your what, junior year or something like
that when you were 20? When he passed, I was a
sophomore, yeah, yeah. And it was February, so, you

(57:03):
know, halfway through my sophomore year, something like
that, so. And when you you were at home at
the. Yeah, I'd actually driven home
for the weekend and I'd taken 2 of my buddies from college and
we were going to go down there because every year in February,
me and my dad would go to the supercross race in Atlanta.
So that was still kind of a thing we did.
And I'd drive down to Georgia and we'd hang for the weekend

(57:25):
and go to the race and all that.And so that's what we were doing
that weekend. I went home, took some buddies
and we were getting ready to go to the race.
Actually that night the 90 passed away.
We were getting ready to go. So fortunately, I mean, I was at
the house when it all happened. And if you don't know the story,
it was a tragic helicopter crashin my backyard, you know, And so

(57:49):
it was very graphic and very intense.
But I was able to be there and support my sister at the time,
which, who was six years old. And that was, that was tough.
Be there for mom and all that and then my brother as well.
So yeah, the whole family was there when it actually happened.
And, you know, obviously unexpected crash and just a
super tragic situation. But man, that was also part of

(58:13):
who, you know, what made me who I am and and the decision to was
made in that moment. Like that day.
I have a vivid memory as well, just like talking to God and
being like, all right, like thisis what I've been training for
with you like it. I can either lean into you and
understand that you're in control and that you've got my

(58:34):
best interest at heart. And even though I don't
understand this and I'm extremely upset or, or I can go
the other direction and do that and, and be another statistic
and do the same thing that I hear can be, you know, I can go
down the other Rd., you know, and be angry with God and, and,

(58:55):
and take that route. And I just remember like making
a decision in that moment to trust God and lean in on him.
And it really, it changed my relationship with God too, for
sure. Like he was, I truly felt him
like I've never felt him before.And in an unexplainable piece.
It wasn't in the moment. Actually, it wasn't in the

(59:16):
moment as well, now that I thinkabout it, but it was the, IT was
the days and weeks after to where, you know, I was just
trying to process with what I just seen and dealt with.
And there was so much joy and peace that came along with all
the grief and the pain, you know, that was just
unexplainable. And I, and I just knew that was

(59:36):
Jesus, you know, wrapping his arm around arms around me and
protecting me and doing what he says he does, you know, And so
that was pretty powerful and a big blessing just to get to
experience that too, like in a really, really tough time, you
know, and then to get to go backto school.
And at that time, sorry, I'm just rambling now, but I'm
really proud. I'm really like reliving it a
bit. There was a lot of questions.

(59:57):
Do I stay home? Do I take care of mom?
Do I take care of the tree business?
Do I take over that? Do I like, what do you do as a
20 year old? I'm I'm an adult, but I'm still
a kid. Kind of you.
Were literally home for the weekend.
Yeah, home for the weekend and I'm thinking, do I go back to
college? Do I like, what do I do, you
know, and what's my responsibility now?
Do I got a six year old sister that just lost her dad?

(01:00:19):
Like do I stay home and help parent her, you know and so.
Your your buddies were there too.
Yeah, man, they were at the house as well as.
You you still know where you're still.
Yeah, I'm still friends with them.
I need to connect with them again.
But but yeah, we've, you know, that bond is one of them was
really, kind of really shook probably more than the other.

(01:00:40):
Where, you know, even before me,like when we got back to town,
he was in therapy and doing stuff because it was it was what
he saw. Yeah, what he saw.
So everybody's, that was it. How long have your dad been
flying helicopters? He had been flying for probably
a year, year and a half. And I tell this story often when
I talk about it because my dad was such a worker.

(01:01:03):
Like he always said, like my, myhobby is work.
Like I love to work. And he had one other hobby which
was riding dirt bikes, you know,and we would ride dirt bikes and
we would work. That's what we did together.
There wasn't a lot of every now and then we go down to the beach
and have a week with the family.But dude, it was like, that's
what he did. He just worked and we and he
enjoyed it. And if I wanted to hang out with

(01:01:24):
him, I'd go to work. And so and so to see him have a
new hobby, it was a lot of fun. Like he loved flying and he was
really passionate about it and really excited.
It's not easy to get a license to and.
It's not easy to get a helicopter license.
No, it's not easy to get any license.
You got to have commitment and dedication.
You got to want it and to get even your fixed wing.

(01:01:44):
But but yeah, he was determined and learned to fly and he was a
good pilot. And then he ended up buying this
this old helicopter from this guy that had flown in the
military for like 30 years. He was an older gentleman, super
cool guy. And Long story short, he was up
for the weekend helping dad, youknow, tinker on the helicopter
and do a few little things and maintenance and stuff like that.

(01:02:05):
And this guy was actually flyingwhen they went down South.
Oh, they had was. They were both.
In the they were both in the helicopter.
I don't know that went down. They both passed away, but they
claimed it was mechanical air. And you know, I don't really,
nobody really knows, but I do know that dad wasn't flying and
it wasn't just a silly mistake on his part.
And you know, really sad scenario, but but ultimately and

(01:02:30):
he died at 43, which now I'm 38.And I'm just like, wow, that was
like. That's young.
That's young. I didn't, I didn't realize it
was that young when I was 20, you know, but I'm just trying.
That's young. I'm.
Trying to envision it in a backyard and you know, you see
the dramatic fiction side of when something like that happens
on in film and and TV and it's big.

(01:02:53):
I mean, was it? I don't want it that.
There wasn't nothing was like blown up or in flames.
It kind of they came in the landand we were kind of we lived out
in the in the it's safe to say the woods He had he had cleared
out a spot and cleared out a bunch of trees trying.
He was determined he want to land at the house.
And I guess they just came in a little low and they were going
low and slow, you know, and theyclipped a lamb.

(01:03:14):
And when they when they clipped that lamb, they just, you know,
the helicopter just went nose down into the into the ground
And on a helicopter, the motors behind you.
So the motor, just the engine just crushed them, you know, so
it wasn't like explosive or fire.
It was just debris and crushed bodies, you know?

(01:03:37):
And did did you guys go immediately to the scene?
Yeah, yeah. So that was like, you know, the
kind of thing you have nightmares about for for years.
You. Know and Did you have
nightmares? Yeah, I did, yeah.
It just like not. Years, not for years, but.
Like flashbacks? Yeah, close my eyes and go to
sleep and that's all I could see.

(01:03:58):
You know, like that picture that's stuck in my head.
Yeah. And like the the picture you
walked up on or what you saw happen or.
Both picture I walked up on. I was actually in my bedroom.
I didn't see the helicopter go down.
You got there before the police or ambulance or?
Yeah, so when I when it actuallyhappened, I was in my bedroom
and I heard the helicopter coming.

(01:04:18):
So I thought, good, they're coming to land, we'll get ready
to go to the race and all that. And then and then it and then it
went off. The the sound of the helicopter
was either they were there quickand turn the helicopter off or
something, something kind of in right.
And then my friend ran, my friend ran in the house and
said, Tyler, your dad just had ahelicopter crash.
I'm like, Oh, well, that's, that's a bummer.

(01:04:41):
Like literally I was like, oh, Dang, that's a bummer.
But my dad like, you know, you don't think your, you think your
dad's invincible. And my dad was a pretty, I mean,
motorcycle crashes and things like, it wasn't, I just thought,
man, bummer. I hope he's OK.
We'll go check on him. You know, like it wasn't.
And I actually walked outside from my, my bedroom on this
little balcony and I could hear my, I could hear someone like

(01:05:03):
screaming. And so I thought, oh man, this
is kind of bad. Somebody's in a lot of pain.
So I ran down. I ran down there.
It's kind of down this little hill and realize that my brother
was the one down there screamingand he and he was the first one
on the scene and just like screaming, trying to get my dad
to wake up, you know, But he wasgone.
He was gone immediately. And so for my brother to like,

(01:05:24):
he was like first on the scene. I was probably 2nd and mom was
probably third or vice versa. I can't remember.
But yeah, we were all like rightthere and ran down there.
And, you know, it's just one of those things that you'll just
never forget. But.
And at that time, I guess you don't cell phones weren't around

(01:05:46):
then or where I guess they wouldhave been here like younger than
I. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So did y'all the time I call immediately and was soon after
were people there? Yeah, call 911.
That you guys knew. Yeah, yeah.
And actually they got there fairly, I guess, fairly quick if
I recall correctly. But dude, there was some crazy
stories, Miles. Like I won't go into all of

(01:06:09):
them, but like one of the crazy stories was when the ambulance
got there, because of how my house was set up, they couldn't.
And it was kind of down in the woods, but there was like a
fence or there was a gate off the dirt Rd. we lived on.
It was kind of like direct entryinto the woods.
So the best way to get to the helicopter with a ambulance or

(01:06:30):
you know, with help was through this gate.
Well, there was a big chain link.
There was a big chain with a bigmaster lock on it on that fence
and we're and it was kind of like state of emergency because
even though it felt like they were probably gone, we just sort
of had hope it maybe they can beresuscitated.
Maybe they're maybe they're not dead, even though their bodies
look really bad in bad shape. So we're like kind of like

(01:06:53):
frantically running around trying to get help.
You know, ambulance shows up thegates.
I'm like pulled in here to this gate.
It's locked. We're like, well, I don't know
where the keys at. And I kid you not, I never
forget this either. My brother in the moment of
panic and, and just, you know, all the emotions that he was
feeling, he grabbed that chain and he started yanking on it and

(01:07:16):
he broke the chain in half with his bare hands.
Like a thick, like a, you know, like a thick chain.
And so stuff like that was happening.
You're just like, that might have just been God breaking that
chain for you, bro, because thatis, that's not normal.
You know, later on, my brother tells me that he heard my dad's
voice in the sky, like when he was sitting there yelling at

(01:07:36):
dad, like wake up or do you know, talk to me, talk to me.
That's what he kept screaming talk to me.
And like, he, he, he heard dad'svoice like very audible and in
the air, you know, which was, hetold me that like a couple
nights later and I was just like, wow.
Because my brother's not like. What did he heard him say
something. Heard him say, I think he said I
love you or whatever and I'm OK.Yeah.

(01:07:58):
From the sky or from the air. And it was like, yeah, it's like
audible. And so just cool.
I mean, there was a lot of therewas a lot of cool things that
happened around that. And it was, again, it was just a
pivotal moment in my life and then my whole and my whole
story. But definitely a a day that
that'll shake you up for sure. Well, I appreciate you telling

(01:08:20):
it. I know such detail has to be
really hard to probably go back and unpack, but I've known you
for a long time and I, I knew your dad passed in that way, but
I never knew any of that. You know all those details.
I. Remember, since you're friends
with this guy, I'll tell you this story really meant a lot.
When I was just rethinking aboutlike coming back, I came back to

(01:08:40):
college, I don't know, a week later, you know, and like I
said, still really just kind of shook up, but also feeling a
weird amount of peace. And just, it was a just a lot of
emotions and trying to go to sleep and seeing that picture
and that image in my head over and over.
And like you, just like you don't want to close your eyes.
You know what I mean? And I'll never forget this man.

(01:09:01):
Talk about a good friend I called.
There was many times where at the time I was already friends
with Kanan. You know, we had already become
buddies, but new new friends, you know, and I'd call him, it
might be two or three in the morning.
And at least twice he left his house and came over to my dorm
room or my apartment on on campus and just sat there in the

(01:09:22):
floor in my room with me until Ibasically fell asleep.
And I was just like, he would pray and we would just talk and
then he would just sit there with me until I'd fall asleep.
Oh, that. Makes me wash because I love
that guy. I know dude.
James Smith, who we're talking about.
He's going to say so, yeah, justI.
Already sat there with you whileyou went to.
Sleep, yeah, yeah. And more than once.

(01:09:42):
So yeah, it was like also that bond that gets to happen with
your friends that are really that are really like there for
you, you know what I mean? And been there for each other
through life now for 20 years. But.
But yeah, that was, you know, just things, just blessings like
that that you get to experience through the, through the grief
and the pain, you know? Were you?
Were you did you stay home untilthe memorial service or what

(01:10:07):
kind of memorial service did youend up having?
Yeah, we kind of had a traditional, I guess funeral at
the church and I did, I stayed home.
I stayed home until that happened.
It probably happened pretty quick.
It's a little blurry, but I think it probably a week later
we had a service and we buried him in Loganville, right close
to the church. And one thing that stood out to

(01:10:30):
me about that service was my dadwas, for lack of a better term,
he was a collector of people. And he would, and that's what
his friends would say, like thisguy just collects good people,
just collects people and just either either like to love on
them to, you know, he was just acollector of people.
He had friends and friends and friends and, and majority of his

(01:10:55):
friends were Hispanic. Well, not majority, but I'd say
half of his friends were Hispanic guys that either worked
for him or had worked for him orthat he just loved for whatever
reason enough to where he had already in our church, he had
already talked to because he wasstarting to bring so many of his
Hispanic friends to church. And they would come sit through
the sermon and not understand a word of it that my dad said, can

(01:11:17):
I, can I start a Hispanic church?
And so he started it. They had this little Chapel in
the garden at our church. They had this little cool garden
and they had, they called it a Chapel, but it was just a nice
empty little cool building. And they started having a
Hispanic church in there every Sunday where Dad would go.
Dad stopped going to service with us and he went into the
make sure all that was going good and all his Hispanic

(01:11:39):
friends were being served, you know, And so when he had his
service, they had to have two services and they had English
speaking service and a Hispanic service.
That's incredible. So because there were so many
Hispanic people there and peoplethat loved him and I just
thought, man, that's especially a 43 to have that many friends

(01:12:00):
and people that love you, that you got to have two services for
the language barrier. Yes, I don't know.
That was just my dad though, youknow, like that was, that was
just how he operated and he didn't care who you were, where
you from. He you know, he loved you and
and made friends with people andserve people well and took care
of people you know. I'm I'm having a moment because

(01:12:25):
it to be your as close as we've become over the years.
I don't know that I ever got to know your dad, but never really
knew your dad, obviously, but I haven't gotten to know know your
dad until now. We talked about this before, but
I oddly enough, I feel like I know you're and I think what's
making me emotional is there's so much of you that is your dad.
Yeah, totally. I mean, every single thing you

(01:12:48):
described, I was like, that's Tyler, that's Tyler, that's
Tyler. That's wild.
I know I'd say one of the hardest things now is.
That he didn't get to beat my buddies and my wife, my kids.

(01:13:14):
You know, if he saw what a tour bus look like, he'd trip out.
What in the world is this? You know, he was, he was the guy
that built the bread truck out with funks in it so we could go
to hurricane work with all the with all the Hispanic guys.
And me and me and dad went for four weeks, would go down to
Louisiana when Katrina hit and go to a tree work, you know, out

(01:13:36):
of a out of a homemade box truck.
And so to see just things like that, we're like, bro, if he
could see this port tour bus right now, he would he wouldn't
know what to think. So yeah, it's.
That's the hardest part still. Yeah, well, I I didn't know when

(01:13:56):
I was slowing that story down. I didn't know why.
Obviously with my profession, I was a little careful.
I don't want to take you back into anything super trauma
related that you don't want to. Thank you, buddy, that you don't
need to that may not be supportive, but I think now I
think I'm getting clear on why Iwanted to have that conversation
because I think I just want to know you more and I feel like

(01:14:19):
learning about him. I feel like I know you more so I
feel like I get to know you because we're kids are close.
I know your kids and and watching you got to chip off the
old bike there too with little Luca, sure, but man, Roy, what a
St. Yeah, man, he was a seems like
such a cool guy. He was, yeah, special guy for

(01:14:40):
sure, definitely grateful to have have him in my life growing
up and get to learn everything Ilearned.
And you know, I think he would be AI do wish he could still be
here because he would. See this get.
A kick out of everything, yeah. Yeah, you ever think he's
watching? I do think he's watching.
I absolutely think he's watchingand can't wait to can't wait for

(01:15:07):
him to get to meet you guys in heaven for sure.
You, I don't know if it's a pullup or not, but the most
vulnerable I've heard until now was a song that you put out.
And I have a feeling that if people, a lot of people that may

(01:15:27):
be listening to this, it's probably going to bring up a
grief narrative for them watching two people, they care
about each other, talk about something pretty tragic that
happened and in a very honoring,loving way.
But I would imagine it might activate a lot of you.
And one of the places I go, I goto my faith.
I go to my tools that I've learned in therapy.

(01:15:49):
And then I go to music. And you wrote a a beautiful
song. I don't want to embarrass you,
but could I play it? Yeah, for sure, Miss my daddy
you talking about? Yeah.
So I don't want anybody out there that's been listening to
this part of the conversation tohear this.
It was beautiful. I can't remember who wrote this
with you. It was just me, actually.
Wow, God. And I was wait.

(01:16:10):
Tell set set up this all. Well, I had COVID and when I had
COVID, I, I was, what's the wordwhen you're we had, oh, I was
quarantined. Quarantined.
Yeah. Remember when that word was so
popular I almost forgot what that word was.
Anyways, when we were quarantined from having COVID, I

(01:16:30):
sat on my tour bus for 10 days in my driveway and didn't see my
kids and family, you know, and just sat there and I actually
didn't feel terrible. Like as far as being sick, I
felt pretty good. So I was just like almost just
wound up in ANSI. So I ended up writing like 10
songs while I was on the bus that that those 10 days and one

(01:16:56):
of them was this undivided song I did with Tim McGraw.
And then one of them was, and then one of them was this song.
You were undivided that day too,by yourself.
That week, yeah, just. Yeah, just again, time to think,
time to be quiet and what I realized in those ten days is I
don't do that for myself ever. I even got off the bus and

(01:17:18):
thought once a year I should siton this bus for a week and just
be with my thoughts, by yourself, by myself, be with my
thoughts. Because the truth is, that's the
whole reason that song ever got written, because I was just my
friend. Leslie had just lost her dad and
I was kind of grieving for her. And it was bringing back a lot
of emotions that I typically would have been able to bury

(01:17:40):
with friends or busyness or the kids running around the house or
whatever. But I was by myself with my
thoughts. And that's a powerful place to
be when you're alone and you're with your thoughts and you're
able to process and you're able to not rush through them, you
know? So that's where this that's, you
know, and I just sat down and was just sort of like a therapy

(01:18:01):
session, you know, I just tryingto get it out.
I want to pause here for a moment and I would implore you
to go listen to this song Miss My Daddy by Tyler Hubbard.
You can find it anywhere where you might stream music.
It's unfortunately we couldn't put that piece into the episode
because of the timeline. We weren't able to get the

(01:18:22):
licensing and the publishing done and the timeline that we
wanted to release this episode so you guys could get a chance
to hear it. But often at on site and some of
my other work, we use music therapeutically a lot,
especially on the back end of really moving and meaningful
conversations, which was a real moment that that we had there as
friends. And and that song kind of came

(01:18:44):
in and bookmarked it beautifully.
What happened there was I pushedplay on it and we got to listen
to it together and it was it wasawesome.
And so unfortunately, I can't show you that part now.
Maybe at some point we'll add itback to the episode, but I
really would encourage you to pause the episode for a minute
here, listen to the song, and then as soon as you finish up,

(01:19:04):
hit play again and we're going to jump back right into our
conversation. I hadn't heard that one in a
while. I.
Remember when you sent it to me when it was rough, rough, just
when you just put your vocals down and I was just, I was
slayed then. I think father son type stories
or parent child stories hit deeper when you become a parent
sometimes too. Because I all I can think about
is our kids are going to be saying some of that stuff about

(01:19:26):
us. One day and.
It makes it, it honestly makes me want to tell them more about
their grandfather because he's not going to.
That generation doesn't you either pick up on it or you
don't. And that his age, my dad's age
with where my kids are. There's so many stories I have
about him and I'm fortunate to still have him, but I haven't

(01:19:47):
made an effort to really properly introduce it to my kids
and say, let me tell you who my dad was.
I thought, I'm going to go do that today.
Be good. Gracious, we're all right.
That was beautiful. You want to talk about fried

(01:20:07):
chicken or something here in a minute.
I was kind of stuck too. I was like, where we go from
here? It's good though, it feels good.
Yeah, it does. Well, I would like to I would
like to see where we go. So, so you you also describe
some that you had this odd piecein faith which hearing a little
bit more about him, I kind of kind of understand why, but you

(01:20:31):
go back to school and tell me where you go from there.
Is this where the music starts to get back in?
Not even really. I mean, I was still, I was a
sophomore in college. I would say maybe my junior
year, I kind of sort of picked up my guitar again and just

(01:20:52):
casually sort of wrote some stuff on my own in my bedroom.
Not, you know, I wasn't playing anything or doing anything until
probably my senior year because then at that point I knew.
Well, let me back up a minute. When I had to, when I made the
decision to go back to college, it was because, I mean, that's

(01:21:13):
what Dad would have wanted me todo.
I really thought about it. I'm like, would Dad be proud of
me to stay home and take care ofhis business and take care of
mom and my sister? Probably.
But would he have wanted me to do that?
No, he would have wanted me to go back to college, finish what
I started and see what is out there for me, you know, and in

(01:21:33):
the meantime, do my best to takecare of mom and and my family.
But so so anyways, back to school, kind of back to the
regular again, trying to processback, back at it, kind of
surrounded with friends and social and this and that.
And so I think the first year back I was just like, all right,

(01:21:56):
let me just, and everybody also expected because it hit my
school hard to like all my friends do.
Like it was a big deal. They had a whole service like
when I was not even there praying for me and my family,
like a whole thing. Like it was a big, so everyone
heard about it. It was big news at my school.
And I think everyone expected meto just be a train wreck when I

(01:22:19):
came back. And like I said, by the grace of
God, I had so much peace and I was obviously grief and pain was
there, but that joy that I had was unexplainable.
And I think that was an opportunity where God was just
showing out, you know, and beinglike, look, we can go through
hard things. And I got you, you know what I
mean? And and you're seeing it in real

(01:22:39):
time and you're you're feeling it in real time and your friends
are feeling it in real time. And so it was a powerful season
for sure, especially for spiritual growth.
So, yeah, things were fairly just sort of normal in college
until as far as that goes, just kind of the normal doing what I

(01:22:59):
was doing. And then I would say senior
year, I really decided like at some point along the way, I had
heard that, man, you can write songs for a living.
Like that can be like a, like they're songwriters that do this
professionally. You don't have to writing songs
doesn't have to be a means to anend or just to support you as an
artist. If you're an artist, like you

(01:23:20):
can write songs. So I decided to, that's what I
want to do, like I want to pursue when I get out of school,
I'm pursuing A publishing deal. Like that's what I want to try
to, that's going to be my direction.
And so I started writing some more songs my senior year, like
I said, maybe my junior year, picked up my guitar, started
kind of just writing some stuff.Maybe it was probably a lot of

(01:23:42):
therapeutic for me, you know, and then connected with BK and
genuinely felt the Holy Spirit at this time.
You got to understand too. Like I was really in tune with
the Holy Spirit. Like we were just walking step
in step because of basically because of what I've been
through and how hard I was having to lean on that for my
for my peace and been of joy andeverything and to just wake up

(01:24:04):
survival, survival. Yeah.
And so I was at this little I had known of BK just to, you
know, hanging with the athletes and baseball team and stuff.
And I knew he kind of dabble with music and played his
guitar. And there was an on campus
worship event, just a small gathering and BK was leading
worship. And I ended up going to it and I

(01:24:25):
was in the back. And and I just remember like
during this, during that event, I remember God saying, like you
telling me very, very directly, you need to go meet that guy and
you need to do music with that guy.
And so I went up to him afterwards.
Hey, bro, I know you a little bit.
I'm taller, you know, and A and BK, you know.
Yeah, I got a class with your friend and he's actually been

(01:24:49):
saying we should get together and this and that.
And I said why don't we? Why don't we just get together
and write a song, you know? So we ended up hooking up and
wrote a couple songs on the backof my tailgate of my truck in
the parking lot. I'll never forget.
And then we. Sounds like a country song.
It honestly felt like a country song.
We're just hanging out, getting to know each other and wrote a
song or two. And then at the time I was

(01:25:11):
starting to really trying to getout there a little bit and start
to play Riders Rounds when I could just to 'cause, you know,
I was like, yeah, how do you getyour songs heard if you don't
have a pub deal? Will you go play them?
You know? Well, how do you get a pub deal?
Yeah, you got to get them heard.So I need to get out and start
playing Riders rounds. So I was trying to get more
comfortable doing that. I had actually been nominated to

(01:25:31):
play at the Songwriter Showcase at Belmont, which was kind of a
big deal at the time. And wow, I getting acknowledged
as a songwriter and make, you know, so I played this and that
was cool. And BK was actually at that that
thing and he came up to me afterwards.
Maybe that was when we decided, yo, it's like, because I came up
to him introduced, but then he came up to me was like, bro, we
got to do something like let's let's write, you know, So we

(01:25:52):
start writing, write a few songs.
In the meantime, I'm playing some different writers rounds.
He's probably playing some different things because his
baseball careers coming to an end and he's probably figuring
out what he wants to do and starting to write songs.
And eventually we would be on a few, right?
I'd call him, hey bro, let's do this Riders round.
There's two more guys and we'll,you know, you play your songs,
I'll play my songs and they can do theirs.

(01:26:13):
And we obviously had no hits at the time.
We're just playing our songs that we've written.
And eventually I started hearingall BK stuff and kind of like
singing on it. He started hearing all my stuff
and singing on it. And then we would start playing
a lot of the songs that we wrotetogether and singing them
together. And that, you know, that went on
for a few months. And then we eventually had
enough songs where we would put together around and not need to

(01:26:34):
bring two more guys. You know, we would just say,
well, bro, we got like 12 songs,like, let's just do it ourself.
So then we'd sit up there on a stool and go back and forth,
usually at a place like Hotel Indigo on West.
End Yeah, I remember that when they.
Do that was like our we cut our teeth there.
We also played, we started playing some like full band
stuff here and there, but this was a little later.

(01:26:57):
Honestly, we cut our teeth sitting on stools playing riders
rounds and then and then on Wednesday nights this is.
At that, at that point where yousinging your songs individually
or had you started doing a few together?
At this point, we had started doing a couple together just
kind of casually, like, hey, let's play them that song we
wrote last week and I'll sing itwith you, you know?
But any of those early songs getcut later.

(01:27:20):
Not, not on a large scale, no. It's just like on our little EP
that we made in our first littleEP.
But yeah, it's so it, you know, the story goes on slowly but
surely. We we start playing them by
ourself. Then we decide, let's pull the
stools out, bro. And let's stand up.
Like we're at that time, like 40of our friends were showing up
at Hotel Indigo to watch us play.

(01:27:41):
And so we're like, man, this is cool.
And we had just, by this time weprobably graduated, we moved
into the same house together in Green Hills, him and I, Chase
Rice, Tom Beaupre and Justin Marusik.
We all lived in this house. What a crew.
We called it the Fun House. It was awesome.
We had a blast. And at the time, we were all
kind of pursuing the same thing.You know, Chase had moved into
town off of doing what he was doing on Survivor and NASCAR and

(01:28:04):
this and that and. Then he played college ball,
too. Did he played college ball as
well? I forgot.
About the survivor. He was like, man, I want to be a
songwriter too, so, and me and BK had been pursuing it for a
while and we were like, bro. And he was our roommate.
So we'd let we kind of learn to play guitar and write songs
together with Chase Rice too, you know.
And but BK and I eventually we're all hanging out at the

(01:28:26):
funhouse one night after these Hotel Indigo nights.
And one of our friends was like,man, you guys need a name.
I think it was either Marianne Keane or Jordan who were two of
our close girlfriends at the time that were almost, they were
into what we were doing. And they were almost acting as
like young managers, you know, like, guys, we need to.
Because at the time, BK and I were starting to call clubs in
the Southeast and act like we were agents.

(01:28:48):
And we had this band that they had to book.
Booking yourself? Yeah, booking ourself.
And on the weekends, I'd unload all my car wash and stuff.
And we would take his Tahoe and my enclosed trailer, and we put
guitars and gear in there. And we would just go.
And we'd take Tom, who was living with us, and play bass,
and we dressed and would play drums and we would go play these
clubs in the Southeast. You were still washing cars on

(01:29:11):
the side. Washing cars during the week.
Yeah. Because at this point, no pub
dealer, nothing. And eventually, I don't know, a
year or so and we ended up getting meeting Seth England,
which was a huge blessing. He took us into big, loud
introduces to Craig and everybody and Rodney and
Tompkins. And Craig was really interested
in signing us and he just connected with us right off the

(01:29:32):
bat. And at this time, I mean, it was
Craig Wiseman, bro, like, you know, he was one of my heroes
and I was just blessed to be in that building.
And then he signed us and I never get Seth said, well, what,
how much are your bills? What do you need to make every
month to pay your bills? And I said 1500 bucks that put
that covers everything. And so he said, all right, well,

(01:29:52):
you're going to get 1500 bucks amonth.
You're going to be a professional songwriter.
And I thought, man, that's, that's great.
I don't have to wash cars anymore.
It was so nice because it for solong I was just juggling, you
know, juggling trying to make money and pay the bills while I
was trying to juggle a career and build a songwriting career.
So that was a huge moment to be like, man, I don't have to worry

(01:30:13):
about my bills anymore and I don't have to worry about What
Car I'm going to watch next week, you know?
So that was huge. And me and BK both got a
publishing deal with Big Loud. So at that point, we could
actively, literally five days a week, we could write songs and
then on the weekends we could get in my trailer in his Tahoe

(01:30:33):
and we could go play these little shows.
And yeah, one night after Indigo, one of Jordan or
Marianne said, you guys need to come up with a name, you know,
because you guys are like doing something.
It's kind of cool. And so I said, well, man,
basically, let's let's come up with a name that represents both
of us and who we are and where we're from, you know.
And so that night we said, well,Florida Georgia Line, that's

(01:30:56):
where we meet in the middle. Let's just do that.
And it kind of stuck and next thing you know, we're playing
these shows and the, and the, that we had booked in the
southeast and they were startingto get a little buzz around
town. And I told BK, I'm like, bro,
listen, man, you and I, if we just, if we just keep grinding
and we hit this pavement and we're out here building a fan

(01:31:17):
base. I was like, we don't need nobody
else, bro. We got this.
Like, listen, we're not going togo take a, we're not taking a
record deal meeting. We're not going up and down
music Rd. We're not doing this because we
got songwriting, bro. We, our bills are covered.
This is a cherry on top. We get to tour on the weekend.
We're not making any money, but we will.
But if we go out there and builda fan base, the labels will come
to us. I said I promise you just watch.

(01:31:39):
And sure enough, dude, we, we busted our tails for three years
just doing that and just building and building and
building in a van. And the Taco was starting his
Tahoe. Then we ended up buying a 12
passenger van and that felt great.
You know, big, big upgrade. And then eventually we bought a

(01:32:00):
Sprinter van, which was a big upgrade because it had a few
bunks in it. Because when we were in the van,
you know, we were driving overnight.
We were on certain tours where we were the only band in a van.
Big tours like the Country Throwdown tour, Heck of a
summer. We were the BBQ band had to cook
for everybody on the whole tour,Literally everybody in their
whole crew. All the acts, all the crew had

(01:32:21):
to put the fire out, drive, drive overnight to the next
place and follow the tour and doit all over again.
Play or set in the middle of theafternoon and then go to the
grocery store, get groceries andcook for the whole crew for the
next 8 hours. I mean, it was intense bro.
We were, but we were doing what nobody else would do and now
nobody else would do that for sure.
It it seems like this culture now is there so far from
building it the way we built it.And there's nothing wrong with.

(01:32:43):
With Seth managing, you know, atthe time or not yet.
At the time, yes, yeah, basically.
So he. Started managing it shortly.
Basically, he went from our publisher to well, I'm, I'll
help manage you guys, you know, and he were you, Seth fell in
the Yeah. No way.
Yeah, he fell into management because we needed managed and we
fell into having a manager because Seth was down to do it
and he was great. He's a song guy and we didn't

(01:33:05):
know any different. We never took a management
meeting. Seth England, who we were
talking about, he's now a legendary manager, Morgan Wallen
and. Now he doesn't even manage
anymore because he's too busy doing even bigger things.
Yeah, great guy. But yeah, to have him in our
corner, we were all figuring it out together, you know what I
mean? And at the time, it was
beautiful because we, the stars aligned, you know what I mean?

(01:33:26):
And granted, it wasn't overnight.
I mean, a lot of people think our story started in 2012.
It really started in 2000 9 but we have that story of building
it grass roots from the ground up, you know, and really going
out there and signing every autograph and, you know,
standing in autograph lines for three hours, four hours in the

(01:33:46):
middle of the afternoon after weplay.
And I mean, it was just that thing.
We were just shaking hand make afan.
That was our thing, you know what I mean?
And play every song like it's the last song you ever play and
so. Kind of fits your dad Roy's
advice with. Honestly, yeah, it does.
Good to know, remember. Everybody's name, Yeah.
Shake a hand, make a fan and we shook a lot of hands, made a lot
of fans and and then, you know, 2012 actually Cruise had dropped

(01:34:12):
at that point when we were on that rough, when we were on the
Country Throwdown tour that summer, I saw that much you.
Were still in a sprinter and when cruise dropped.
Yeah, wow, 15 passenger man. Yeah, and then we moved to the
Sprinter, which had a couple bunks in the back, which was
huge because we could at least rotate drivers and sleep and
this and that. But but yeah, man, I mean, it
was a heck of a journey. I mean, that's the start of the

(01:34:33):
rocket ship. I don't.
Remember the trajectory of cruise?
But did it go as fast as? Yeah, I mean, it's a massive.
Technically, we had cruise out before we had signed any deal.
So like once cruise was out and it hit the rocket, it did and we
were and we were getting that momentum and building this fan
base. And I mean, it was like the
stars aligned, you know what I mean?
Every it was the perfect time, perfect sound.

(01:34:55):
Me and BK were in perfect sync with where we were at in life.
And it was just the perfect storm.
And and I know it even more now than I did then, obviously,
because I was just on AI was just found myself on this rocket
ship that I didn't know that I didn't know any, I didn't know
how to handle. But I didn't even know that it
was at the time. I didn't even know how special

(01:35:16):
it was or, you know, the challenges that were ahead or
what this looks like. Although I will say this about
me, even when I go back and talkabout my decision to really lean
into Jesus after my dad passed, something, something in my
childhood in my narrative had told me stories.
And you hear these nightmare stories of how this happens,

(01:35:36):
whether it's a someone has a dramatic tragic loss.
Well, they've fallen off into alcoholism or pain pills or
whatever, whatever. And they're really struggling.
And you hear all this, you know,basically the worst case
scenarios of a lot of of a lot of situations.
And I would, when I found myselfin these certain situations, I
would say, well, I know where this can lead to.

(01:35:57):
I don't want to go down that road.
I'm going to be intentional not to.
So even with the beginning of our success, I knew like this is
incredible. But man, I hear all the stories
about what happens next, you know, like with this, with this
success and, you know, fame was starting to happen.
Money was starting to happen. Not big money, but just more

(01:36:19):
money than I've ever thought about having, you know, and I
just started thinking, OK, what what can I control?
I can control how this I can tryto control how I handle and
approach this season of my life.And what I don't want to be is
another stat, like I do not wantto be the rock star that turns

(01:36:40):
into the alcoholic, that turns into the, you know, living on
the road, no home life, domestic.
You know, all the things you hear about that can be very
common. It's an age.
It's a tale of oldest time. You know, it just seems like,
yeah, you hear it. You see all the documentaries
and all this. And I said, that's why I was
scared to death of labels. I was like, labels, bro, no way.
Labels. All they're going to do is take,

(01:37:02):
take and hurt. And they don't care about us.
They don't buy. They want the money.
And it was just this kind of like bad taste in my mouth from
just history and stories and stuff.
So I was very kind of like turned off.
And it really served me well when it came to like navigate
and signing a deal and all that.But even now that I'm older, I'm
in on through the journey of FGL.

(01:37:23):
Like I was determined, like granted we were, we had our we
had plenty of time to sow our wild oats and get it out of our
system and drink as much as we could handle and or more than we
can handle hang out with. You try it on the lifestyle.
Yeah, I tried it on for a secondand I'm like, OK, I get it.
This is what it is. It's not fulfilling, it's not
cool. It's actually what they say.

(01:37:44):
But I wanted to experience it for myself and I recommend
everyone doing that to be honestbecause you can hear one thing,
but until you experience it, you're going to and there might
be curiosity down the road, so Iwas.
Fortunate when you say it's not what they say.
What? What was the?
Feeling it, it wasn't. It was lonely.
It was very temporarily satisfying, you know what I

(01:38:05):
mean? Once that buzz wore off, bro,
the hangover was terrible. Or once that once that once you
sobered up that girl was actually very annoying and not
cool or like whatever you're just like this is just not like
this is not going to like I don't want this life.
You know what I mean and fun fora minute would tell stories.
We're all the guys are on A1 tour bus we're having a good

(01:38:26):
time. It is what it is.
But ultimately I and I was really blessed and fortunate and
I feel like Jesus was protectingme as well through all those
years to not have any terrible consequences of our
irresponsibility or, or kind of like childish actions.
But at the same time, it was short lived.
It was a couple years of just, they probably just one or two

(01:38:47):
years before I felt like, man, I, I, I've tasted it.
I get it. It's not, this isn't for me.
And I want to have one day. I want to have a balanced life.
I want to have a family, I want to have a great wife, I want to
have kids. I want to have a home and
something to come home to when Iget off the road, you know?
And that's and success was starting to happen for us where
I could tell things were shifting with who was hanging

(01:39:12):
around and like why they were hanging around.
And it wasn't just because they liked me and BK.
It was becoming more like, oh, these guys are successful and
they got money and all these people that typically girls that
typically wouldn't want to hang out or like all of a sudden want
to hang out. I'm just like, no, this is kind
of scary because like, what's their motive, you know?
And like, am I ever going to actually find someone that

(01:39:32):
doesn't care about the music andthe success and the in riding
the FGL rocket with me? And it can actually be about me.
So that those fears started to set in.
And around that time is when I met Haley.
And I wasn't really looking truly for like my wife, but I
was starting to have those thoughts of like, man, like this
lifestyle can get old quick. I just want to I kind of want

(01:39:53):
some stability. I want to be in love with
somebody that supports me and loves me for me.
And I don't want to be just out here.
Just the music's great. But that's not that's not where
the fulfillment is going to comefrom.
You know what I mean? And.
And ultimately, I did have a really strong foundation of
faith, which allowed me to, evenin my wildest years, have a

(01:40:13):
foundation I could. I knew where home was.
You know what I mean? I knew where my strength and my
courage and my joy and everything comes from.
So that was a gift along the way.
But. But yeah, navigating those
years, especially on the personal side, and then
realizing and then getting blessed enough to meet someone
like Haley. Yeah, you met a St.
And then you really just saying,OK, like she's my partner, she's

(01:40:35):
my partner in life and we're going to do this together.
And she she. Knew right away.
I knew pretty quickly to be honest and we were friends for a
while before we ever like moved to the next step, before we ever
kissed her. And there was any, I mean, none
of that. It was like we were really good
friends. And when we started, we first
started kind of dating, it endedup just like one night at at one

(01:40:58):
of our friends house. We were all a bunch of friends
were together. We were having a wine and cigar
night, and I'll never forget I had quite a bit of wine, decided
I'm not driving home. So I slept on the couch at at my
friend's house. And Haley ended up staying there
as well. She was going to stay in this
girl's roommate's room. But that girl told the roommate
that night she didn't want anybody sleeping in a room.
And so Haley ended up not havinga spot to crash.

(01:41:21):
So we ended up crashing out together.
Yeah. I was like, yeah, I got room on
this couch if you want to come sleep over here.
And, and honestly, we passed outthat night and woke up the next
morning and I just remember likeholding her and I was just like,
whoa, this feels really good. Like what you want to hang out
tomorrow, You know what I mean? Like maybe this is more than

(01:41:41):
friends, you know, And from thatnight on, we actually kissed
that night. And from that, from that moment
on, it was like I was, I was hooked, you know, I knew she was
the she was the one enough to even joke around with.
I remember being in the bus joking around with our bass
player Tom, and getting down on one knee, acting like I was
going to ask, ask her to marry me.

(01:42:02):
And she, she didn't know I was doing that.
And she saw me in the back lounge goofing around with Tom
and she, and she kind of asked me later, what were you doing
back there? I was like, oh, nothing.
But I was like telling Tom, like, I'm going to marry this
girl, dude, for sure. And so anyways, yeah, it was
special. And she's been just an
incredible, incredible person todo life with and so supportive

(01:42:23):
and so gracious and, and yeah, so now, like I'm, you know,
music back then was the priority#1 I mean, it just was, I mean,
I can say God was first and this, but truthfully, music was
first my career, my drive, my desire to crush it and continue
was first, you know, priority list.
And now in my life is truly 4th.It's, it's God, my wife, my

(01:42:46):
kids, and then music, you know, and my career.
And so the dynamic shifted in it.
You know, it's the new challengeis now balancing all those
things and making sure the priority stay in line and making
sure my team understand my priorities and and all those
things. But yeah, it came at the perfect
time. And I couldn't have I couldn't
have asked for a better, you know, for God to put some

(01:43:07):
someone better in my life than Haley.
So it's. Sentimental for me to hear that
story because that you were kindto invite me and and and Judah
out just to celebrated a 10 yearbow renewal in Idaho and we both
got to be a little part of that and it was just incredible.
What is great love story you've been living.
I'm about that 10 years because there's so many things we could

(01:43:28):
talk about. You literally can't find talk
about that 10 years because you,I mean, you started y'all
started breaking the glass ceiling.
Every record that had ever been made, FGL was just breaking it.
And and you were breaking it in such an untraditional way that
you you were the first to usher in a whole new sound to country
music in a way. And that was not that wildly
received by the industry. And I'm curious, I know at that

(01:43:52):
time the rebel side of you and the push back on authority side
to you and the kind of autonomy and independent side of you was
certainly leading. And I think I agree it served
you because you can't argue withthe tracker.
Any regrets in that season? Yes and no, to be honest,
because there was something about our rebellious spirit that

(01:44:18):
got us where we were and gave usthat drive.
And we were polarizing when we came out.
I didn't know that. I honestly, we were so busy on
the road and doing what we lovedand making music.
We didn't even know until probably way later on that we
were polarizing band and people and the people in this town and
in this industry either were bought in or did not like us.

(01:44:42):
And to be truthful, I didn't really care at that age because
we got it made, bro. We're out of here crushing these
shows. We're doing our thing.
We don't, you know, like we don't need to worry about what
music rose saying or thinking like, let's just do us.
We're going to have fun. We're going to write what we
know and we're going to do our thing and people eventually get

(01:45:03):
to know us. Maybe.
But again, it wasn't a priority.It was just like, and I didn't
have time to, you know, we were siloed off on the road doing our
thing and really focused and really super busy.
Like when I say busy, like 230 shows a year for a couple years.
So there was no being in town and building relationships and
being and, you know, telling ourstory and being hands on with

(01:45:26):
the team. And it was just, you know, we
didn't, we didn't buy into the, you know, we were a little bit
anti industry before that was like a thing.
Well, not before was a thing. There's it's always been a
thing, but we kind of rode that that way if you know, and I do
think it served us well, but I do.
And when I say that there are some I would say regrets would

(01:45:48):
be it's a bit unfortunate now that and it's also an
opportunity and I'm excited about it.
But over the years, I've realized, man, a lot of people
in this town, they know me basedon what they created in their
mind about me in 2012 when we came out and we were really
polarizing and we were really, you know, doing it our way and a

(01:46:12):
bit a bit rebellious and a bit, you know, we were just labeled
as the party guys. And they do it well.
And let's go to an FGL show. These guys are they're buddies
and they party and that was it. And that's all we cared if they
need, we didn't need to, they didn't need to know the depth of
our heart or the struggles or the, you know, or the they
didn't need to know that. And we just kept it fun.
And that's the life. That's the season that we were
in. And so, so, yeah, now it's, it's

(01:46:36):
a bit, it's interesting because like we've talked about, it just
feels like never really let anyone in or given anyone an
opportunity to create a narrative around who I am that's
that's true or authentic. It's all kind of been based on
what the town says or what people's narratives in their

(01:46:57):
head have made-up or what they've thought about FGL.
And, and honestly, a lot of that's probably true and I
should say was probably true, you know, 15 years ago.
But from the age of 23 to 38, you know, you change a lot. 24
to 38, a lot's changed, you know, and, and I do now feel the

(01:47:20):
desire and hunger to man, I wantpeople to know me, man, I want
to be known. I don't want to be, and I don't
mean famous. I mean I want to be known for
who I am. I want to be known for making an
impact and a positive impact in the world.
You know, I don't want to just be just be known for what I did,
what I did with BK in 2012 and 13 and 14.

(01:47:41):
You know, it's like, so there are, there are days I'm like,
man, could have done a better job for sure around that.
But at the time just didn't see a need to and felt like, man, we
got this. We're rocking, you know, and
I've been reminded in this new season, it's like, man, what we
had and what we did, it's so rare.

(01:48:04):
And back then I just thought, man, this is, this is easy.
I can't believe it's this easy. You just put a song out and it
blows up and you just, people are showing up like crazy.
Like what's so hard about this business?
You know what I mean? And I couldn't have been more
wrong, you know, and, and now I'm able to see it for what it
is. And it's a, it was a gift.
It really was a gift that God gave us and, and, you know, we

(01:48:28):
made the most of it. But now I feel like my gift is
I'm still being given a gift that God gave me.
And you know, now I want to now I want to move the success into
the significant category and instead of just all focused on
success, you know, and I feel like that's so that's kind of
where my head space is now. And some of that making an
impact, it means going back and rebuilding some of these

(01:48:50):
relationships, making sure, you know, being myself and taking
the time to get to know this, the town, you know, get and
taking the time for the town to get to know me, you know, and
the fan base. So that's kind of, yeah, it's a
long winded answer, but. No, it's a great answer.
I'm glad to hear it because I know I watched it, you know, as
AI was tied to the industry, butalso just a fan of the music,

(01:49:11):
you know, of country music in general.
So I watched the how polarizing it was, especially when you
brought. What made you bring Nellie to
the table? Well, we were label mates and
our label had proposed the idea of man, you guys should do it.
Right, Nellie's was was with Scott.
Universal. No, that's.
Right, you started Universal. Sorry, big picture, we it was a
yeah, like a sister, you know, label.

(01:49:32):
But anyways, we were connected through the label and they had
brought the idea and then they had mentioned what about Nellie?
And I thought, man, that'd be what I love Nellie.
Like that'd be incredible. And so I think it was just a few
days later, me and BK were on the road.
We get a we get a rough in our inbox and we're like, Yo, did
you hear the Nelly what Nelly did on this song?

(01:49:52):
And he just win the studio and put his verse on it and kind of
and it was great. And then we got back in with
Joey and kind of did a remix on the production a bit and sauced
it up a little bit more and, and.
Did Joey, Joey, Joey Moy, he do all those early records?
Yeah, he did our first four albums.
So talented. Yeah.
Just a great experience for us as well.

(01:50:13):
But but yeah. And then, you know, the
relationship with Nelly just grew from there.
I mean, we ended up meeting, playing some shows and next
thing you know, like we're calling him Uncle MO.
Like he's literally giving us advice on, you know, in in a way
that only Nelly can. Just a passionate Advisory Board
basically is what Nelly was for us for a while.

(01:50:33):
But he was like our cousin or our uncle and, and just really
connected, hit it off and play tons of shows together, went on
tour together, you know, award shows this and that.
And really that relationship's been incredible ever since, You
know, we just really look up to him and his whole crew.
And so it was a perfect, it was a perfect collaborator to take

(01:50:56):
that song to the next level and then build, you know, when it
when it works that great, It's just fun to see it what it can
build into and relation relationships and tours and.
It's such A to, to, to because Ithink I, I mentioned where were
we? We were in Jacksonville maybe,
and it was it was after the tragedy in Vegas, I think,

(01:51:19):
because I don't know if you remember that particular show,
but yeah, we were touring the tour with Nelly.
He was actually opening up for Y'all at the time I think.
Yeah, it was like Nelly and Backstreet Boys and they're.
Opening up, I mean that tour along that ticket and country
music, a headliner as country music duo and Backstreet Boys in
LA, but we were. Literally, it was like my child.
I felt like my childhood. You know what I mean?

(01:51:40):
We're like, yeah, we're, we're taking it back here.
It was so unheard of. I mean, it was such an
interesting package and and the that night of somebody turned on
or pulled a fire alarm. If you remember that 'cause I
was standing in front of house actually randomly by B KS
parents and that was literally fresh after.

(01:52:01):
I think it was after. It was it was like our first or
second show after that happened.And everybody in the arena
panicked. I mean, not like run panicked,
but everybody for a moment froze.
And it got that quiet. And I remember, oh, who's your
security at the time? Worked out with him for years.
Wilson. Wilson, Yeah, Wilson.
Love that guy. I think he was the first one up

(01:52:21):
there. But I think he ran and got you
guys off stage and then suddenlyabout like we got to get out of
the building. So I remember I grabbed, just
jumped in, took his parents. We walked outside.
But I remember we got on the tourist after that because that
was when you just started doing the pub thing and riding on the
road. And that was pretty innovative
piece too, as a publisher. But I remember sitting there
thinking, I didn't know it was closer.
I mean Hardy was on the bus and that was when he had just

(01:52:43):
written that up down with you guys that y'all cut with Morgan.
And I remember seeing such the eclectic group of people on that
bus and I was like what? This is something you just don't
get to see. You know, Backstreet Boys and
Nelly and rock artist and country artist.
You guys created something incredibly special that

(01:53:03):
disrupted the town in a beautiful way.
And it did exactly what Roy invited you to do at Belmont,
which is just get to know everybody.
And I saw you push through the stereotypes, pull everybody
together in a cool way and create something that's
unforgettable. And then to see you put your
head down after all of that and you guys have gone separate ways
and creating your own music in different ways and turn into a

(01:53:25):
solo act and come out of the gate with four number one hits.
Yeah, man, do you? Ever sit and think about that?
Yes, some time to time I do you.Had slowed down long enough.
Not much, but I do from time to time.
It's. Crazy.
Yeah, it it is. It is pretty wild.
And I, you know, I've learned a lot about myself through that

(01:53:45):
process too. You know, I've obviously one
thing I've always known and it is it takes a great team.
And it's not just me, you know, it's my songwriters, It's the,
it's the label, you know, it's the, all the people fighting on
my behalf, you know, and, and I feel really fortunate to even be
doing it, especially after COVID, you know, like there was
a time where I thought, man, I, we might be done, like I might

(01:54:07):
be done being an artist or like playing shows.
I guess I'll just be a stay at home songwriter, which also
sounded really great at the time.
And half the time I'm really jealous of my songwriting
buddies. They get to work 11:00 to 4:00
and go home to their family. And that's the that's the normal
day. But so I was living that world
for a while and I thought, man, you know, like FGL might like my

(01:54:30):
time as a country music artist might be coming to an end.
You know, as crazy as that was, because we were, we went from
playing 3/4 shows a week for 10 years to overnight.
Well, we can't play shows anymore because of COVID and
you're just like. Then you were at a peak or a
prime. We were at a pretty prime.
We were because it was. I think it's one of the bigger
Live Nation tours that ever been.
Yeah, exactly. We were, we were, you know, we

(01:54:51):
were at our peak, I would say. And, you know, there were signs
that were saying our trajectory was starting.
I mean, there were some struggles here and there, like
ticket sales a little bit here and there.
But that was again, that was alllike post pandemic and stuff.
We're trying to get back on our feet a little bit and figure out
what this looks like. But but there for a time, just
like a lot of people probably went through of like men.
There's so many unknowns. Like I don't know what my future

(01:55:12):
holds. I don't know if I'm ever going
to be on stage again. I don't know what this looks
like. I thought FGOI thought we were
just going to do this forever. I just took it for granted.
I just thought, yeah, we built something great.
We'll, we'll be able to just ride off into the sunset.
This will be awesome. You know, we'll carry this thing
out for another 10 years and call it a day, you know what I
mean? But our that plan, obviously

(01:55:35):
that's not what God had in mind,You know, and, and I feel like
through the pandemic and then reassessing and now, now coming
out on the other side and reallyhaving like more gratitude than
ever for getting to do what I love, which is write songs and
play shows and tour. I'm, I love travel, I love
touring, I love playing shows. Now that I'm out there getting

(01:55:55):
to do it again, even in a way different capacity, I am
thoroughly in in love with what I do.
And the passion is probably morethan ever in the drive.
I've also learned that I'm builtto I'm built for a challenge,
like I love a challenge. I love doing what people say
can't be done, or at least trying to way more than I love

(01:56:17):
doing what people think I shoulddo.
Or what would be easy, you know?Would it be easy to just get
back with FGL and try to build? Yeah, it'd probably be easier
than building my own thing, but I like the challenge, you know
what I mean? And I'm feeling so much creative
freedom and so much excitement, so much joy.
And getting to do this with a different dynamic, with without

(01:56:38):
a partner, to be honest. The freedom, the creativity that
comes with that, you know, I never expected it.
I never expected to ever be doing this by myself, you know,
So to be here, it's just funny how life works, you know, like
you might think one thing and you look up and you're in a
completely different scenario and situation or gone through
something you never expected. And, and that's what that was

(01:57:01):
for me. And so as tough as it was, I'm
also really grateful and super grateful to be where I'm at now
and in the headspace I'm at and to be able to have the
opportunity to still do what I love, you know?
And yeah, more number ones come,that's great.
But ultimately I'm just, you know, I'm at a season of life
where I think balance and all that comes before trying to just

(01:57:26):
blow the roof off with success, You know, I love getting to just
be a songwriter and an artist and play my shows for the people
that show up and go home to my family and love on those kids.
And yeah, man, it's just a fun season and I'm grateful.
When you look back now, what what stands out most about that
season when FGL was coming to anend?

(01:57:48):
Good question. I think it was a lot of a lot of
emotion, a lot of confusion, a lot of unknown, partially based
on where we were as a world in the middle of a pandemic, you
know, and I'd kind of touched onwhat it kind of felt like to go
from playing 3 or 4 shows a weekfor 10 years of my life with

(01:58:13):
someone that I considered a really close dear friend to not
doing anything right. I mean, all of our worlds closed
down, especially in the entertainment business.
And so that alone was confusing and, and created a lot of
unknown, you know, a lot of fear, a lot of like, wow, I just
this is overnight and we're done.

(01:58:34):
Like how does this you know? And remind me of that specific
time like because I'm I'm confusing that.
Well, that was when I remember it was 2020 when the pandemic
and I think it was March when weall kind of well, I remember we
came back from a trip to Africa in the in the world as we knew
it in the States was completely different.
And I even had friends calling me when we were in Africa being
like, you guys should get home like this is a big deal.

(01:58:56):
Like things are changing, like you guys literally might get
stuck in Africa. And sure enough, we got on our
flight to come home, the same flight that we were supposed to
be on. And there was a lot of chaos
going on in the airport. And we've we learned that that
was the very last flight out of Johannesburg before they were

(01:59:16):
shutting the airport down. So we were and we were already
on the flight. But we're like, what's going on?
Why is everybody, you know, panicking and all this?
And why is everyone like trying to make decisions?
And they said, well, this is thelast flight.
So I came back home to a world that was completely different
than when we left, you know, andat first I was like, this is
cool. Like I like the I kind of thrive

(01:59:38):
in this sort of like, oh, there's a little bit of a uneasy
thing going. There's a there's some unknowns
happening. We don't know what's happening.
But then after, you know, and I was also like, well, I'll just
enjoy kind of being home, being with the family again.
This is also need for me to not be just in straight work mode
that I was able to enjoy the first few months of it.

(01:59:59):
And then and then yeah, you really realize like, wow, like
our world like this isn't going to come back next week.
You know what I mean? Like I think at the beginning we
all thought, well, this will be short lived and we'll just enjoy
it. And, you know, and then it
wasn't the case, you know, and we're like sitting there
thinking, man, like when the fear really does set in where
you're like, is everything that I've worked for about to just be

(02:00:21):
be gone? You know what I mean?
Am I really just going to? Not be able to play shows for
the foreseeable future. And at that point, like playing
shows was not only part of what I love to do, but it was my
livelihood. It was how we paid the bills,
you know, and, and all those things.
And so had. A lot of people employ a lot.
Of people, yeah, a lot of families.
And at this point, that was the the separation was not looming

(02:00:43):
yet. Or was?
No, not really, no. OK.
It was so. So you're referring more to like
the pandemic? This is your first.
Yeah, I was. Exactly, exactly.
It kind of came in waves, right?So yeah, the pandemic hits were
all kind of like whoa. So, but as far as FGL was
concerned, everything was good, everything was normal.
We had just in 2019 had a big tour with Dan and Shay and

(02:01:06):
Morgan Wallin and everything waswe were just about to put out
our fifth album, which was our last album on our record deal.
So we were able to. That's kind of crazy to think
Morgan was opening for you guys.Yeah, in 2019, Yeah, First of
three, he was before Dan and Shay and so great tour, though,
great experience. And then yeah, our so our our
fifth album was about to be released and we were coming to a

(02:01:29):
close of our record deal. That was like our fifth and
final album on our deal. So there was this just a lot of
moving parts. But as far as we were concerned
as a band, I just we were good. There was really no, none of
this conversation had bubbled upat all.
And we were kind of like, in my opinion, we're like about to get
ready to suss out the pandemic and then resign and a new deal

(02:01:52):
and, you know, have more ownership of our music and all
those things that come with signing a second deal.
And so so yeah, man, I mean, we were, I felt pretty stable, as
stable as you could feel at thattime, although we were
everything was up in the air. But I just thought, well, when,
when it when we all get back to it, like, we'll get back to it,
you know? And so I'll never forget.

(02:02:16):
It was a it was an interesting season for me.
And you've probably heard me. I mean, people may or may not
know this about me, but yeah, I do feel like the fall of 2020 is
when my world fell apart, as if it weren't already kind of
falling apart. But everything started to stack
up on top of each other. And we had two kids that were

(02:02:37):
one and two years old. We had our third child in
September of 2020. I was in the middle of a the
biggest injury I've ever dealt with, which was my I ruptured my
Achilles and broke my ankle three weeks before we had our
third shot about that. Yeah, dirt bike.
So yeah, I just dirt yeah, over jumped something on my dirt

(02:02:59):
bike. My ankle folded up.
And anyways, was it was a major,major orthopedic injury that
required tons and tons of recovery.
And I thought I didn't know whatI had gotten.
I thought, well, I'll be back. I'm I'm going to crush this PT
and I'll be Aaron Rodgers in no time, you know, And that was not
the case. So I was extremely.

(02:03:20):
So yeah, third, third baby came.I was unable to walk or do
anything or be any help around the house.
So my wife had to handle three babies and a crippled husband.
So basically 4 kids, you know, in the house that she was taken
care of. And yeah, it was just a tough
season. And right before or the day

(02:03:41):
after we came home with Atlas, more news was broken to me.
BK sent me a song and casually over text and said and said,
hey, what do you think about this tune?
I was like, I think this is a cool tune, man.
Like I'll never forget. I said I feel like it'd be a
great Chesney pitch. You ought to send it to Chesney
and see if he'd bite on it, you know, And he said, well, I

(02:04:03):
already, I did actually send it to Chesney and he passed on it,
which I'm taking as a sign. And I said, what sign for what,
you know? And he said, well, that I should
do it. And at that point that was the
very, I'm like, what do you mean?
Like like we should do it or like, what do you mean?
He's like no man. I think I, that was essentially

(02:04:23):
the beginning of our, of the conversation of no, I've, I've
been writing a bunch of songs athome during the pandemic in
Florida by myself and I really want to like pursue the solo
thing. And I was like really taken back
a bit like why? Like we're in a great spot.
Like we're about to sign our next deal.
We're about to drop our fifth album.

(02:04:45):
Like everything's rocking. We're in the middle of the
pandemic. So like we don't need to be
making any major decisions rightnow anyways.
Like we're sort of in limbo, youknow, and we're all emotionally
charged and everything's happening and I'm just like, why
don't we just wait like 5 years?Like, let's just Rob, this was
it. The first time you'd heard about
it? Or had he expressed some
interest? Well.

(02:05:05):
There was, there was a time, I don't know, 5 or 6 years ago
where there was interest expressed of like from BK
basically being like, yeah, I'd like to one day I'd like to try
the solo thing. And I'm like basically, well,
that sounds great one day, but right now we're in the middle of
a record deal. And you know, I understand the
you mean the. Desire the record deal would

(02:05:27):
contractually. Yeah, contractually you weren't
allowed to go do that, right, But.
The record deal had ended and so.
Yeah, I think for him that was the time.
It was an opportunity. Yeah, an opportunity.
So it had been mentioned once ortwice over the years that him
and I have been through that topic.
It wasn't completely foreign to me.
He had mentioned it, but it was very brief.

(02:05:49):
There was not long conversationsaround it and it was kind of,
you know, a day or two of those conversations and then very
quickly he would be like, no bro, like I'm, I'm all in on FGL
like that time will come. But like I'm not that's I'm OK
to not pursue that. And but again, I in my mind, I
just thought, yeah, that'll be like what we do a couple decades

(02:06:12):
from now. I.
Mean because at this point the the tour was definitely still
going this way. Yeah, I'd say the first time any
of those conversations ever got brought up was probably like
20/15/16. So yeah, we were still that was
that was like almost a peak. All that to say, I was taken way
back, but I wasn't like complete.
It wasn't like a foreign topic completely, you know what I'm

(02:06:34):
saying. But I guess I just thought, wow,
with where we're sitting in the context of history right now,
like, like this would be a terrible time to to or not the
right time, in my opinion, to godo this.
But. In in your mind, the timing,
because I guess there's an arc in every artist career.
So super predictable. There's a few outliers, but for
the most part it's like it it itit ideally goes up at some point

(02:06:55):
gives you AJ curve and then it'sgoing to flatten inevitably.
And and then the legacy play. And for people that have had
y'all kind of successful legacy plays even more than a lot of
people ever achieved. But were you thinking, if we're
going to do that, let's at leastride out the momentum?
Well, that's what I told BK. I'm like, bro, let's ride this
thing out for five more years or10 more years.
And then if we want to go rogue and go do whatever we want to

(02:07:18):
do, let's do that. But like, you know, like it's
still fairly early in our career.
Like in the big picture, although we had been together
for almost 10 years, it still felt like, man, we got some more
gas in the tank. Like, let's put out a let's put
out some new music and let's go out and crush this thing a few
more a few more times before we hang it up, you know,

(02:07:41):
essentially or, or transition our mindset to a different, you
know, to a different thing. And so, so yeah, we Long story
short, he came to after that text, I was like, why don't you
come to my house tomorrow, bro? Cuz we got to talk about some
things. Like there's clearly some you've
been having thoughts. So I'd love to hear where your

(02:08:02):
head's at, what you, what you want to do, XY and Z.
And I'd love to tell you where my head's at.
So he came over and we had really good conversation for
like an hour, you know, and I was able to be really honest and
he was able to be really honest.And he just basically said, man,
I'm really feeling called like this is the time for me to do
this. And I really need your support

(02:08:22):
and want your support. And I was, you know, I was
under, I tried to be really understanding and hear him and
hear his heart and, and he had astrong desire to go to do that,
you know, and as a friend and a brother, like I really wanted
to. And I even told him like, dude,
I'll, I'll do whatever I can to support you.
Like we've had an incredible run.

(02:08:44):
Whatever you, whatever you ultimately want to do, I want
you to be happy and I want you to follow your gut in your
heart. And if that means not doing
this, then so be it. But I beg you to reconsider, you
know. I beg you to it.
Wasn't the path that you wanted at the?
Time. That was not the path that I
wanted. No, I, I mean, I, you know,

(02:09:07):
basically begged him and also the first couple weeks it was
just me like trying to gather information like really, what
does this look like to you? How do you, is this a full blown
career shift or is this just theone album side project?
Because that's a way different conversation.
You know, if it's if you just want to go put out one album
during the pandemic and that's awhole different scenario.

(02:09:30):
But after I really talked to himfor a long time and gathered as
much info as I could, it was like, no, he wants to get a new
deal, be on radio, do the whole thing, tour, like put out
albums, multiple albums. He wants to pursue a, a career.
So my so I told him basically that day I said, OK, here's what
I'm willing to do and what I'm willing to not do.

(02:09:51):
And I'm willing to do everythingthat you want to do.
And I'm willing to support you and I want, and it's your
decision to make. It's not my decision ultimately.
So I, you know, but the one thing I will say is my boundary
is I'm not willing to do both. I'm not willing to do Florida
Georgia Line and then have a direct competitor that's my
partner doing the same exact thing.

(02:10:13):
I also told him, I don't think Ideserve 50% of you if I'm
willing to give 100. And I don't think your solo
career deserves 50% of you If you really want to do this.
I said, you know what it takes to build a career.
It takes every ounce of creativity and resources and
energy and whatever you got in the tank to give.
So essentially I told him where my boundaries stood and I said,

(02:10:33):
buddy, I love you. I want what's best for you.
I want you to be happy. But ultimately I'm not willing
to do both. And, and you have to make a
decision. Do you want to keep doing this
with me or do you want to go do it on your own?
And I beg you to do it with me because I truly believe that you
and I, there's some kind of magic that's anointed.

(02:10:55):
It's ordained, it's special, andI can't even put a finger on it,
but me and you are stronger together than we are apart.
Bottom line, I'm stronger with you and you're stronger with me.
There's no way around it. Let me ask you this, did you at
some level did you understand his perspective of the the drive
to want to do it? If like if you could separate

(02:11:16):
the timing because I guess I'm trying to think an issue.
So you guys were do have magic. You did build something
together, but in a sense you were out front for most of that
could lead, you know, singing primarily on the majority of of
the songs. And I'm just thinking if I'm in
his shoes, he feels when I'm an artist, I've got things to say,

(02:11:36):
things to sing. There's a lot about me you
haven't explored yet and we've had all this success, but I feel
like there's a part of me that'smissing I want to go pursue.
Did you get that? Do you understand?
He did say something along thoselines and I definitely
understood from one perspective of like man, like I know he's
felt a little bit behind the scenes and I know he hasn't felt
like he hasn't taken much of thelead roles in the music.

(02:11:58):
And but I even tell try to tell him I'm like, but think about
all the other verticals and leadership that you've been able
to do and the businesses you've been able to start and the cool
things that you've been able to do as a leader that I'm not even
a part of because of what we've done.
Like you, you are a special person with special talents and
gifts and we wouldn't even be here if it weren't for you

(02:12:20):
bringing your strengths to the table when we started out and
your gifts and your, I mean, he was sharp as a tack, bro.
He knew everybody. We'd walk in a meeting or walk
in a room or a party or something.
And I was the early on, I was the guy that didn't care about.
I was like, I just want to like play shows.
Like I'm not even, I'm not here to network.
I don't even care. I just want to play shows and
write songs. But BK was like very focused,

(02:12:42):
very business minded, savvy, knew everybody and what their
roles were in town and in the business and who we needed to
talk to and how we needed to get, you know, so it was a
really, really special partnership.
Did you? And it always was.
But did you feel musically like y'all were both you?
You. You didn't feel that as much.
You felt like y'all were both carrying the weight.

(02:13:03):
You just had roles. You're just singing more.
And he was. Yeah, yeah, we both had.
But it felt equal for sure. And we wrote, we wrote all the
time together and. I'm not certainly implying that
he didn't feel like it was equal, I'm just I'm sure.
By the by the end, I mean there were certain things that
happened. In hindsight, we were like, man,
I wish so and so would have handled that a bit differently,
even down to our producer back in the day, Joey, who we love,

(02:13:26):
but he's not a sensitive guy. He's very direct.
He's going to tell you how it is.
You know, there was no sensitivity there.
And with any dynamic in any group, like there's emotions,
there's, there's insecurities, there's things that you need to
kind of acknowledge, lean into, be sensitive around and I.
Don't know it's a style. Yeah, Joe is great.

(02:13:47):
Yeah, Joe is a great producer. He he taught us so many things.
We call it, you know, studio boot camp.
I mean, Joe would just, he, he, he was great.
But there were some things like that where you're just like, oh,
I think that ended up. Felt for your partner in that.
Moment felt for him and also canit help me have a lot more
empathy later on to be like man I mean I get when.

(02:14:08):
You look back now, you're like, I could see where it may be the
way. That maybe he felt less than
start leaving. His voice a little bit.
Right, exactly. Losing his voice is a good.
So I think yeah, he had a desireto.
I want to try something on my own.
I want to see if I can do it. He even said like, one day when
I have kids, like I want my kidsto hear my voice on the radio.
And he wanted to, he wanted to stand alone and see what he

(02:14:31):
could do right? And I understand that as a man.
I'm like, dude did. You did you.
I try to solve for it by saying is there a way we can get you
out front more give you? I think I really took more of
the approach of look what we have done to help you with like,
because there were moments whereI would really push, like, let
BK sing this like, like we're a duo.

(02:14:52):
And quite frankly, and some of those songs, yeah, you can
really, you can't really even hear BK.
So I was pushing for that too. And I knew that was important
for BK. But yeah, I still think he
wanted to prove that he could doit on his own or.
I make up because I'm trying to identify what probably landed
well in that season and what youlook back on now and add a
perspective and say, man, if I could have handled this one a

(02:15:13):
little differently, maybe because I think the outcome is
the outcome. You guys are going in different
directions and chasing your thing.
But the the fallout, the perception the public got is is
disheartening because. It's that is 2.
Friends, 2 good partners that suddenly both you got painted in
the corners like he's this and he's this and it feels like a
government shutdown kind of thing.
Yeah. Who's right?

(02:15:34):
Both. Neither.
I think that was the most unfortunate part of it all,
because at this point I'm actually happy that all this
happened, as wild as that is to say.
And at the time I was extremely frustrated.
I was confused, I didn't understand.
I was, there were times where I was way too blunt and directed
BK. There was times where I felt
silenced and felt like, well, it's not my story to tell.
So we're just not going to talk to the public about what's going

(02:15:56):
on. It was also over the course of
about a year and a half or two years, like it wasn't like it
happened overnight. Actually it kind of did happen
overnight, but we still had obligations we had to do.
There were certain things that like the public didn't know
about any of it till way later on and then at that point the
narrative had gotten spun a certain way and it became

(02:16:17):
political when in reality it hadnothing to do with politics.
Like me and BK and FGL dynamic had nothing one thing to do with
politics, but during the political tension and the
polarizing, you know, it was around the election and BK had
become very vocal with his political views, even though we

(02:16:38):
had decided way early on in our career that we're not a
political band, we're not ever going to talk about politics.
Nobody wants to become the DixieChicks.
Let's just make music and party.That's what we do.
I've, you know, BK and I both like we've never been,
especially me. Like politics is like a foreign
thing to me. Like, I literally didn't grow up
in a political home, don't know anything about politics.

(02:17:00):
Actually, I'm it's embarrassing to be honest now at this age,
how little I know about politics.
And I've learned more now over the years, probably the hard
way, but yeah. So you're coming from a guy in
BK. We never even had political
discussions or conversations for10 years.
But then he became pretty passionate about it and I became

(02:17:22):
completely ignorant, as I alwayshave been until around this
time. I do want to get into there.
I definitely want to talk about that part and I want to make
sure we're, I want to understandthis first part with because I'm
sitting here thinking if I'm in your shoes and my world got
unearthed in more ways than one.I mean, you said everything

(02:17:44):
started to fall apart and I'd forgot about the the weight of
that injury, how significant that was because you had those
three under. Three kids under 3.
In the house and couldn't and you're not a guy that sidelined
very. Well, I don't.
So I would imagine the FGL conversation, you're already
loaded with stress and then thiscomes.

(02:18:05):
And so I stress usually leads toa little desperation and fear
when you have an uncertain outcome in the future.
So it's almost like you're on your heels trying to navigate
this thing in the best headspacethat you can, but you're you're
loaded with all this. I don't what you know, right?
Do you think that if you look back, do you think that impacted
any of it? Any overreaction on your part or

(02:18:26):
how you and if I could have beena little more sensitive here?
I know you you you've said to mebefore, I don't have regrets on
how it ultimately landed. I think I stayed in my my truth,
but there were certain conversations and things that
went a little S that I wish theywouldn't have.
They were emotionally charged and my part in it is.

(02:18:46):
I really chose to just try to bequiet and just let things play
out, which is also not my personality at all.
But I was really advised and trying to practice discipline
and self-control of like, let mejust try to always take the High
Road. If I don't have anything good to

(02:19:08):
say, don't say it, but also stick to my truth and be honest.
You know, with BK and I feel like we had a lot of great
conversations. I was at that point, I honestly
can say there's not a whole lot that I did or said that I would
take back. But I do regret unfollowing BK
publicly at one point of this whole scenario because that blew
that also fed this narrative andblew the whole thing out of

(02:19:32):
proportion when it was really unnecessary.
And that was my that that was just completely, that was naive
on my behalf and irresponsible and also definitely emotionally
charged and probably situationally driven.
I was, I'll never forget, bro, Iwas in the middle of having
COVID. I was on my like 8th day on the
bus in my driveway by myself. And yeah, confused, scared,

(02:19:56):
wondering what's going on, isolated from my friends or
family. And then and then, you know.
I'll spend a lot of time on Instagram and I'm seeing my
partner like talking about how the pandemic's not real and how
we need to be playing shows, which looking back in hindsight,
I totally agree with him. But in the time I'm like, bro,
I'm 8 days away from my kids because I'm quarantined on my

(02:20:19):
tour bus because I got COVID andit's very real for me, you know
what I mean? So like I even called him when I
did that and said hey bro, like,oh, like no hard feelings.
I love you, but I just can't like follow the I just can't do
that. I.
Remember. And that was.
In you, you even said that you part of it wasn't so much of
what your partner was saying, isit that y'all had agreed not to

(02:20:42):
go down that path And it was hard to watch.
But that was such an interestingtime because I can relate to I
didn't know what I know now whenI look back after I've done a
lot of deep research on certain parts of the way I navigated the
pandemic as a business owner, asa family, you know, so at least
part of the leadership of our family, how I challenged a lot

(02:21:06):
of the folks in my extended family system who, who weren't
navigating a certain way. And it's still, it's still so
polarizing that I even hesitate to say, well, this is where I
stood. And now I look back and I'm not
sure I believed everything. I believe.
It's not that I'm not scared of saying it.
I just don't I'm, I'm, we're trying to build bridges here.

(02:21:26):
I don't want to give people's years of reason to not dive into
this conversation because I think none of us knew how to
handle it And we were facing themost uncertain time that we've
ever faced and at least in my generation, and that we had an
uncertain future. We didn't know where it was
going for a hot minute. And, and, and everything that we
were getting fed was just, it was worth worse than you think,

(02:21:47):
worse than you think, worse thanyou think we're all going to.
And then we also all got isolated, which is the worst.
That's the two things the human brain appears the most.
And it also happened to us collectively.
So I look back and I have a lot of regrets.
I mean, to hear you even say, I'm not even sure that I don't
agree with someone. He was saying around we playing
shows and all that stuff becauseat the time, depending on what

(02:22:08):
you were listening to, it was hard to know what we were being
fed and how to navigate anything.
So true, Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, there was much
tried to like everything that came out of my mouth, be very
careful because I knew what was riding on this choices that were
being made over. Those that.
Course of that time and I didn'twant to, I didn't want to burn

(02:22:32):
the bridge any more than it needed to be.
I didn't want to ruin. I just wanted to.
My ultimate goal was to preservewhat we had built.
And I knew that, you know, not kind of coming to the table with
hopefully my best self or my most adult self would not be
constructive, you know what I'm saying?
In the, in the, in the effort tosalvage what we've built, you

(02:22:54):
know what I mean? And so that that move.
You made. Which I I'm hearing you say if I
regret any of it, it. Was that was one of the.
Steps that I made I probably would have done differently.
And if you weren't, if you guys weren't famous and didn't have
all these eyes on you, it was ita human move of like hand is one
of my best friends and a business partner and I just need
a little space for a minute and you're some of us can do that.

(02:23:17):
Nobody ever knows. I was going to say it's the same
way that I the the same exact thing you would do if you went
through a breakup, but like a real like.
Whatever a breakup, you, you unfollow the person because you
don't want to see them all the time.
You know, whatever. And but yeah, that was in the
public. That was in the public eye and
everyone once that was once somebody picked up on that in

(02:23:39):
that scenario, it didn't serve anybody well, you know, and so
that's why I wish I could have done that differently.
You under I I think sometimes when we are hurt that you're
describing and you were hurt in the scenario and confused and.
Overwhelmed. So you made the mistake of like,
I'm going to unfollow him now. Little did we know that it would
be a public at well, everything's a public headline.

(02:24:01):
I'm learning that from doing this.
I've I've so well intended with some of the things I've tried to
walk people into and they're grabbing the most salacious
clickbait headline. And that's kind of what gets
stories to travel. So it's predictable, but you're
also human. So you stepped into that.
But they perceive that as a blowto them.
So they're hurt and they're going to react, which is really

(02:24:23):
human, I think, even though it probably would have been if you
didn't unfollow. Not unheard, but I that's where
I think when partnerships or friendships or relationships
start to go awry. I think they're supposed to at
certain seasons. You know, I'm married and my
wife and I have those moments, but you don't get on Instagram
and start talking and arguing with your wife on public forums.
You get, you call each other, you go to or you go look at each

(02:24:46):
other in the face. And you sit there and talk about
it fair, which is what we shouldhave done, which I should, which
is what I should have done. But at the moment I just wasn't
thinking clearly and it was on my phone a lot and tired of
looking at it. So I just, I just, I just
unfollow him for now because andthen I just literally it was
that quick and what you and whatyou, what I'm hearing you say.
And that was literally like thatweek.

(02:25:06):
The next week I was probably like, it was a completely
different. Like you know how fast you kind
of like almost not. Change your opinion, but
definitely with Intel, with things as you process, you're
like, yeah, this is BS. Like, what are we doing?
What are we doing as a human race right now?
It starts to, you start to look,you start to look at how much of
this makes sense. So yeah, I mean, I went through

(02:25:28):
a lot of like, oh, I think. This oh, I think that I think I
believe it. Oh, I learned this.
Oh, I mean because. We were all trying to figure it.
Out, and I mean I almost on every topic.
If you were to ask me what I thought about almost every topic
in 2020, I would have been able to tell you.
Tell you. And then if you'd asked me
today, it would be almost the complete opposite of what I
thought then. You know what I mean?

(02:25:49):
So, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of that that
goes along with this whole thingof just being naive, trying to.
Navigate it best. You know how trying to protect
yourself and your emotions whilebeing in the public face?
Also, my my approach with the whole thing was like I told BK,
like buddy, I this is your decision and choice and I'd love

(02:26:11):
if you if you could lead the charge on or let's.
Do it, but I need you to. Be willing and open to at least
tell you what we're doing. Like you, we have to vocalize
what we're doing. We have to tell our fans.
It's not really my story to tell.
It wasn't my decision to make. But I'll be patient.
I'll respect your desire to wait.
Let's just wait. So we didn't say anything.
So then we, I come back like bro, like we need to get this

(02:26:32):
out there. Like our, your world's going in
One Direction, mine's going in another.
The world doesn't know. So what happened was basically
never never really wanted to tell the world our truth.
And even till this day, he'll say no.
I've always wanted to do both, which is not a, which is not
false. Like that's a true statement.
He has always wanted to do both the way in.

(02:26:55):
I want to, I want to make sure to touch that I was just.
I really want to make sure because I think this is such a
common thing where. The the catalyst of where we as
a culture got divided. I think there's certain parts of
your story that are illuminatingelements of it and the
inauguration, which created thiswhole narrative about you, which
I knew behind the scenes, your friend, it wasn't necessarily
true. People are painting you into

(02:27:15):
this extremist political categories.
Like that's not even what he thinks or how he moves or how he
believes. But it's interesting 'cause you
made the decision. I want to get there in a minute,
but I'm really just curious about how how that started
breakdown 'cause when I look back with the information I was
being fed and I was calling all the biggest healthcare
institutes in the world because I work part in healthcare too.

(02:27:36):
Trying to make. Decisions about my company and
what we should do. And I was trying to follow the
science, but the science was being politicized and it was
very tough to figure it out. But when I look back, you know,
for when we as a, when we as a group, as a family made certain
decisions about how we could gather when everybody was saying
you can't gather. Well then how do we do it
safely? We have to do it this way

(02:27:58):
safely. And let's say there were one or
two people that were like, I'm not doing that right?
And I look at that time, I was angry.
Yeah. I was like, how could you put
the selfish, the family second? That's selfish.
Right, I look back. Now, and I think I wish I'd have
went to them and say tell me more about why you feel that
way. Same.
I wish I'd have went and and andhad a a deeper conversation so I

(02:28:19):
could have understood their perspective totally cause.
I even. Look back now.
And I was like, Dang, they were kind of ahead of the curve
there. Yeah, we literally have told
Haley's parents because we were.It kind of broke us up pretty
good as a family. All this stuff we looked at now
and said, guys, you were right, we were wrong, you were right,
we were wrong 100. Percent, we're so sorry.

(02:28:39):
Like we're so embarrassed that we set the boundaries.
That we did. We're so embarrassed that we
tried to shame you guys. Like you're right and we're
really sorry, you know what I mean?
But even just doing that, it's like automatically with them,
it's healed and we're moved on and we've accepted and they it's
just, it's been great. But yeah, you didn't have to do
that time. I mean, remember at that time

(02:29:01):
there were so much pressure, like especially as a business
owner that had many families. Relying on.
Us to go to work you know I'm I'm like man I don't believe in
going and getting a vaccine but I.
Do believe in. Doing what I think feels
responsible to keep our operation running so that we can
feed these families. So I was very much like, I don't

(02:29:23):
know what to do. I'm just going to pray about it
and hopefully go with my gut on this.
And and do I regret getting a vaccine?
Yes, I do. I'm still dealing with that
today. But health wise, what I health
wise, but what I've done it any differently, I don't really know
because I thought that equaled going.
Back to. Work.

(02:29:43):
You know what I mean? And there were a few people that
you probably even know a few, and I know a few that lost their
jobs because they didn't want toget them.
And I thought, man, a bunch thatis extreme.
Just go get the shot, you know? But it's like now you realize
what the shot actually was a. Lot more.
And you're just like, man, like they were right.
I wish I'd have been bold. Enough to say, no, I'm convicted

(02:30:07):
enough or convicted enough to make that stand, right?
Because for me it wasn't a strong conviction.
It was more just and it wasn't so much what they said, it was
how they were saying it and it and I think that's what's
happening everywhere, right? Now is when you have to say
something really loudly to try to cut through and be heard.
It feels divisive and against. And I think it's somebody trying

(02:30:31):
to figure it out, trying to get information out there and if we
could slow down on both sides, Cause if I'm in your shoes, I'm
looking at that scenario like, 'cause I, I, I, I'm, I'm trying
really hard not to get in any bias because I can respect both
you guys, you and I, I'll be, you know, to be completely
honest, you and I are closer. We've been friends a little
longer. We've known each other.
We still hang out. Our families are close.
Our kids are close. Yeah.

(02:30:52):
And but I really respect BK as well.
And I, I was a part of some of those conversations.
I was a part of some of that. So I was pretty, I'm close to
it. And I, I could really see and
hold both of your perspectives. And in some ways as a, as a, a
guy in the middle of it was painful to watch because there
were emotions were so hot. But it's such a reflection of
the time that we're in as you asa go back on it.

(02:31:15):
And I was there too, with a lot of things, but it didn't happen
publicly. And when it happens publicly and
you get 1,000,000 of people to weigh in on it, I think it
compounds the pressure in the stress.
It gets people further in their corners.
It's kind of what we're seeing out in culture right now and
where is 2 guys who came together and created some magic
and decided to go a different direction and try to create some

(02:31:36):
new magic it had. There had to be a bigger, darker
story there and I don't. People always want it, you know,
they're going to want it out of this conversation.
They're going to want what's thedrama?
Here and. That's not what we're here to
talk about. I know how you feel about BKI,
Know you, If I were to say Miles, how do you tell me about
BK? How do you feel about it?

(02:31:57):
And well, to be honest, real quick to piggy tail, piggy tail.
Piggy back piggy tail to put some pigtails on your miles.
Pigs lives here this morning. No, I.
I think you're right, dude. I mean, ultimately.
This only became big and. Dramatic on the Internet.

(02:32:18):
It just became. It became so.
Magnified and such and and there's not a good guy, bad guy
in this equation. I don't know that anybody's
right or wrong. There's not a right, wrong.
There's not a good guy, bad guy,which everyone wants to do that
on the Internet, they want to say.
Right. Wrong.
Good guy. Bad guy team BK team T hub team
liberal team conservative. Like, dude, it's not even like
that. BK stuck to his convictions and

(02:32:41):
LED with his gut and would decide to make a decision based
on his passion. I've set a boundary that I
wasn't willing to cross and it is what it is.
And it was honestly, we've both accepted it way before the
Internet accepted it. And that's also part of the
problem. I think.
Well, part of in hindsight, whatwas a bit of an issue was once
BK and I made that, once BK called me and said thank you for

(02:33:03):
your support. This is the decision that I'm
making. It was in October of 2020.
Well, everything else that happened there, I should say
this. There was a lot that happened
between that phone call and I got to figure out what's next
for me from that timeline to thetimeline of it's become this

(02:33:23):
becoming pretty public. There were so much that went on
that made sense to me because now I'm a solo artist.
Whether it's going and writing asong and doing a song with Tim
McGraw, whether it's going and playing the inauguration without
BK because Tim McGraw got asked to go do the inauguration for a
song that we did together. And so Tim asked me to do it

(02:33:44):
with him. And of course, I'm like honored
to be called by my country to goplay an inauguration with Tim
McGraw, who's one of my heroes. Of course I go do it, right.
But I have for sort of forgottenthat the rest of the world just
assumed that me and BK were all is well, if nothing else, all is
well. But they're definitely still
together. Otherwise they would announce
that they're breaking up, right?But we had already broke up six

(02:34:07):
months ago, even though we didn't acknowledge it publicly.
And there was that phone call that I'll never forget that was
very clear. The decision was made.
It was like the phone call when you're breaking up with your
boyfriend, girlfriend and you hang up the phone and you're
like, well, that's that's done now.
Like I literally hung up the phones like wow, that's like the

(02:34:28):
that's like the end. Of FGL like.
Whoa. It was like heavy.
I remember I was riding to a right.
That day. And I just remember thinking
like having that feeling of sameway I did in high school when
you when there's a breakup that happens, you hang up the phone
and you're just like, OK, it's adifferent season now.
Like that is gone. That's done.
The light switch has been, you know, I caught the switch, but

(02:34:49):
it's been turned on or turned off.
And this is this is what's next.And so I really struggled with
that time in between where I knew what was going on, BK knew
what was going on, but no. One else did.
And no one else had that perspective or those lenses to
look through whether it was why did BK?

(02:35:10):
Why did Tyler unfollow? BK or why did?
Tyler put out a song with Tim McGraw because all that stuff
got thrown back in my face a year and a half later.
But again, so there was that. I want to fit a lot of that
narrative too. I, I feel like there's still a
lot of my read is there's still.A lot of unprocessed.
Emotion around it. And there should be.
It's fresh. We've been moving and surviving.

(02:35:32):
Hadn't had a lot of change. I do think that you've landed,
this is our offline conversations, I'm bringing into
the online ones. You've landed in a place where I
think you've grown, changed and healed from that time.
And I think when you look back and talk about it to me, it's
like, man, I, I love that dude. And we created, we made history
together. I know you care about him as a

(02:35:54):
human. I really, I, I know that.
And I know you look back at thattime and you've been now in a
place of contemplation about your own part.
And ah, gosh, I hate the way my perception landed.
You know, half my fanbase thinksI'm somebody I'm not.
Half of Music Row is misunderstanding this and my
industry people. And maybe when I was 20

(02:36:15):
something and kind of had that screw you attitude, I'm going to
go make music. And I don't care what anybody
thinks. I'm a dad now and I'm a citizen
and I'm starting to pay attention to the world more and
I'm way more involved in philanthropic endeavors and
solving problems. And, and I do care.
You know, I do think you still have that artist mentality that

(02:36:36):
I always am jealous of when it comes to y'all's what you
create. It's like I'm going to put it
out there at all costs and be willing to take the heat that
comes with it. But I do see you caring more.
And if I strip it all back, I think, OK, the last thing I want
is what happens in these conversations and it will
somebody's going to clip a headline and it and it's going
to probably feel like BK and andhis team will be discounted

(02:36:59):
because they're not talking about it.
What happened with our other friends on that other the guys
that do busting with the boys and I had never talked to them
about that. I don't know if it was well
intended or not, but it kind of it turned into I'm right.
And then the next day I was like, wait a minute, that's my
story. I'm right.
It felt a little bit like a it didn't do any good.
I got you because it just elevated the problem and I
really want to make sure that I appreciate the raw truth you're

(02:37:21):
putting into. It but I want to make sure this
doesn't do the. Same.
Because I know your heart cominginto it is like, I really want
people to know I'm zoomed out from this.
Because really, if you break it down, I can see both sides.
You've got a guy who really wants to try to create some of
his own. Music and his.
Art and he's at the prom of a a duo historic success massive

(02:37:46):
deal. His partner sees that as a
distraction and a threat to the business.
The business is your livelihood.You're already sidelined and and
so you're like strategically that just doesn't make sense to
me. I think that's a real threat to
the business to go moonlight on the side.
He didn't he saw it as I think we can totally do both.

(02:38:07):
We can totally use FGL to and he's like, you can do your
thing. I can do my thing.
Let's let FGL support both and you at the time made a business
decision that that that doesn't make sense.
I've only and I think I. Remember when you were trying?
To make that decision, you, you even outlined your time.
You're like, well, if I put 100%of my time here, I've got my

(02:38:28):
family and these 100% of my time.
That's way different than the first ten years we built FGL.
There's no time left to go support a solo endeavor and FGL
and raise kids. I remember you were thoughtful
about how you went through it, but nobody knew that.
Everybody thought it was just asemotional.
And it it got into, well, FGL ended because you went solo and
it was. FGL ended because you weren't

(02:38:48):
willing to compromise on my solorun.
And so how would you? And FGL ended because Tyler's a
liberal, allegedly, and BK is a conservative, which is not even
the case. But yeah.
That was. Also the narrative too.
How could they let politics break up the band?
I'm like, we didn't, but that's what everyone because we didn't
talk about, we never really got online and spoke truth.

(02:39:10):
So everyone created their own narrative.
And so you think that was a big media outlets.
If I could go back, I would havegone online and talked because
it would have eliminated a lot of speculation.
Speculation, the false narratives outlets, you know,
running with stories that weren't true or making up so.
Yeah, it. That was probably the most

(02:39:32):
frustrating part was sitting back in the sitting back and
letting all that go on and not engage with it and not say guys,
y'all don't know me at all. Do you?
You think I would actually do that?
You think I would actually, you know, but I just chose to not
pour pour fuel on that fire and really just was advised to just
sit back and and in that contextis sort of a lose, lose

(02:39:55):
situation, but it but I'm such aperson that desires to be known.
I usually wear my heart on. My sleeve, I speak my mind and
I'm very, I can be very vulnerable, very direct and I
just, that's, that's the way that I like to carry myself.
And and so for me to for me to also feel like a responsibility.

(02:40:15):
Not to speak. Into something because it's
maybe not my story to tell. That was hard for me for sure.
And then it did become my story to tell a little bit, but still
it was only my perspective rightin it.
And then, you know, again, what I'm basically saying today is
just like I wanted to get online.

(02:40:35):
I should have got online three years ago.
And so this is what's going on guys and.
There's going to be people that believe me and they don't
believe. Me and I don't even care, but I
got to speak the truth, you knowwhat I mean?
And so yeah, that was that was tough.
And then I do feel like there's been a little bit of a linger
there where it's like, man, it'sbeen five years now and I still
feel like I'm not truly known. That's why this desire to like

(02:41:00):
get my story out there and, and be and be even more authentic
and just, you know, less filtered, just be myself, you
know, well, and I, I don't, I'm trying to think how I would
advise if if I were sitting there now.
And part of the reason I think advisors would have been
cautious of. Of you guys talking at that time
was there was it was so emotionally charged that would

(02:41:22):
it would it have just highlighted and and I'm right,
you're wrong, I'm right, you're wrong, I'm right, you're wrong.
And therefore it's still going to create that downstream impact
of people making up more narrative about it.
Because people love drama. Why?
Because it's a distraction from the drama that we carry in our
own lives in the shortcomings, caring of stuff.
We can get hooked up in other people's drama, but I think a

(02:41:43):
lack of it, I think your instincts are right.
I think a lack of context created a bigger void.
Which created more narrative. For people to make up stuff.
I don't know that either of you going out and trying to prove
the other. Yeah, but you're not hearing my
point of view. I honestly think it would have
been and I know you, you you hope that y'all could sit down
together for an interview and talk about it.

(02:42:03):
But that's what I I would have wished could happen that way.
I, I think it at some point it needs to happen now, because no
matter what, you're getting one side of the totally, yeah.
And whoever's aligned with is going to believe that and
whoever's not so. And there's actually nothing
that me and BK aren't aligned on.
Except. The fact that he thinks we can
do both, and I don't think we. Can so y'all.
Still are there? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(02:42:25):
And are you talking? Granted, I hadn't spoke to BK a
lot in the last couple years, but we're going.
We're going on a hike next. We're going on a hike next week.
So the way I see it is I have a desire for that friendship.
I miss the I miss the guy that Iwas partners with for 10 years.
I miss my old. Roommate my best.
Man on my wedding and and if nothing else, we should have a

(02:42:49):
relationship. It doesn't have to be what it
was and doesn't have to equal FGL doing anything.
But we need to, we need to repair, you know what I mean?
And spend some time together face to face and just walk and
talk and hang and go fishing or get a guitar out, you know what

(02:43:09):
I mean? And so I'm excited for that
because, yeah, it feels like at this point, enough.
Time has gone by. What's happened has happened,
but there hasn't been any real repair at all.
And So what I'm hungry for is. Let me get my friend back, you
know what I mean? Let's.
What we fall in love? What brought us to the dance in

(02:43:31):
the 1st place? You know what I mean?
Let's get back to there. And obviously life has changed a
lot and the dynamics have changed a lot and we're in way
different places in life, so we may never be able to get back to
what brought us to the dance. Being dead broke right out of
college and desperate for a career, you know what I mean?
Or, you know, living in a home with four other dudes and
pursuing music all together as hard as we can.

(02:43:53):
Like that's obviously not the reality of the seasons that
we're in now, but there's a new season that I think is hopeful
where it's like, dude, like we had so many amazing years of
blessings and doing the craziestthings that we've our wildest
dreams couldn't have imagined. Like.
We should be living doing life in some capacity still talking
about those days if nothing else, you know what I mean?

(02:44:14):
So, so I am there like as far aslike the desire to heal and, and
to rebuild that friendship and whether that ever ends up
turning into. Anything FGL related again like.
That's really hard to say, but but I am, I am here and I'm
ready. And, you know, I've told BK that

(02:44:35):
and that's why we're, you know, he's reached back out and said
I'm in town for this, this event.
Why don't we hang out? And I'm like, cool, It's so
there's a boat. You know, we're both like trying
and we're both making an effort and.
I'm excited to. See where that goes.
But yeah, there hasn't been, it's been pretty quiet over the
last, I don't know, three years.Well, I mean, I really think

(02:44:57):
this this story on both of y'all's parts, because I, you
know, I'm a fan of you guys fan of.
The music, but I really think the story's important and I I'm
glad that you're you both. Have the courage to get.
Back together and see what happens because could you
rebuild a relationship or a friendship and disagree on
something very monumental towards your future direction?

(02:45:19):
I think you can. I think we used to be able to do
that kind of stuff all the time.I, I've still got lots of
friends that are hard right, hard left in the middle
everywhere. And I'll say I don't, I don't
have the relationship I used to because everybody's affiliating
with who believes with them the most and spending time and
there's only so much time when you become a, a parent, your

(02:45:40):
social life kind of starts to dissipate totally.
But I'm realizing it's like, what is that them or is that me?
And should I be reaching out to people?
That maybe I. Don't align with or agree with
and can we still have something?Is humanity getting it wrong
right now basically? And so I, I think that's a
worthwhile endeavor. My hope is that I, I know you

(02:46:05):
know, you're going to be honest in what you do.
And that's why I said I still feel like there's some emotion
charge there. I don't know how there could be
that relationship is too much. A big part of your life.
But I think there's a higher higher Rd. element of.
I want to be accountable for my part in.
This the part that didn't land. Well, I'm not saying the outcome
didn't need to happen. Maybe it's what?

(02:46:26):
Happened because he is getting to go chase his dream right now.
You know you're chasing a dream.You.
Didn't think you'd be chasing, but I think you've been having
some. He found some meaning with it.
But my, my, my hope is, is that the perspective can shift and
that the ripple that you guys had with the breakup, which is
political. And see, we told you it's the

(02:46:46):
FGL party guys that didn't care about country music anyway.
Just all the crap that was out there, you know, we're two
humans that were in a relationship and a business
partnership and it kind of went S 1/3 of it that was out there
was true. The part that was true.
We own we were It's a different season.
You've just heard from me that Iwas going through a super
challenging time, so I didn't. Have all my best.
Agency on board. Looking back, I wouldn't change

(02:47:08):
the outcome, but I certainly would change the approach.
I don't want to lose a relationship just because we
have a massive disagreement and now you're trying to repair
that. So I think hats off to that.
Thanks, Milo. Appreciate that.
I do want to hear about the inauguration because we touched
on it briefly. Talk about it for a minute,
because that is a. Primary narrative out there
about. You that I think it's is unfair

(02:47:30):
in some ways, but you just said it so.
Casually earlier you were. Like I got asked to.
Well, you said two things I wantto check that you said first
you. Said we're not going to do
anything. Political because I don't feel
qualified, which hats off. High 5 to you as an entertainer.
Dolly's queen of this. I love how she's handled that.
She's like, why would you want my political opinion as an

(02:47:51):
entertainer? I don't do politics.
I don't study these things. I entertain and and therefore
she's been able to keep eyes andears her on both sides and she
ends up being the artist that bridges it together.
It's gotten very polarized in a lot of settings in in the music
community, but she said it casually.
It's like. Well, we don't do.
Politics. But in this case, you kind of

(02:48:12):
chose to step into it a little bit.
I think you did it kind of not even thinking about the outcome
because you're like, well, I gotasked to go play an
inauguration, first one with TimMcGraw, one of my I wrote this
song. It would have worked, by the
way, for either party. It was divided somewhat,
bringing people back together. We're divided.
I think if you would have done it for Trump's inauguration, it

(02:48:34):
would have worked for you to done it for Biden's
inauguration. It would have worked because it
was about a message of unity. It's just they called, Tim
called. I don't know how it happened,
but they called and you chose togo do it.
Did it enter your mind at that time that this might have some
backlash? Not actually.
As naive as it sounds, no, I didnot.
It did not actually. And and that song was so much a

(02:48:57):
reflection of my heart. Where I was at that moment.
That I was like, so proud of it anyways, Like man, I'm not.
I don't want to be divided. I don't really care.
I mean, don't take this the wrong way, but like, I don't
really care about politics, right?
So like, I just don't understandwhy our world was becoming so
extremely divised, divided and polarized over what was going on

(02:49:20):
in the political space, right? And, and all I wanted is like,
guys, we're all as a, as a world, we're all going through
something together. Like we're going through a
global pandemic together. Like we should be uniting as
humans and not worrying about political lines in the sand.
You know what I mean? And as much I mean I I know it's

(02:49:42):
important now I know I mean politics.
Matter, and I know it's important and.
And you know, especially local, but like for the most part, like
it's just never been a part of my vocabulary.
It's never been a part of my mind, my processing, nothing.
Like I just don't think about again, I grew up very simple and
I grew up not in a political home.
I grew up going to church and riding dirt bikes and playing

(02:50:05):
basketball. Like, I did not, you know?
And so my wife did grow up in a more political home.
So she actually helped me becomea bit more educated on, like,
Tyler, you can't say that. I'm like, what do you mean?
We just watched 10 kids get shotup in school.
Why can't I say that we should do background checks?
And she's like, because that's areally big political thing.

(02:50:26):
I mean, I remember one time I got on social and started
talking about gun control and from a gun owner, from a redneck
like myself. I thought, oh, they'll hear me
because I got tons of guns. I love guns, I shoot guns and
blah blah blah. But we should still be
protecting our rights by doing it responsibly, right?
Bro? Talk about a can of worms.
So I opened that can real quick and that's when I realized.

(02:50:46):
That was the first. Time.
This was a couple years ago, butthis is the first time I
accidentally tripped and fell into a political conversation
whatsoever, right? And that was also when I learned
like, yo, I don't want to touch this.
Like I don't want to touch the the politics stuff because I'm
not educated around it. I don't know, it's like Dolly
said, like I just want to like, I just want to be a good human.

(02:51:07):
The one person that I put my trust in faith and hope in is
Jesus, not a, you know, politician of any side, right?
So to answer your question, sorry, I wrote this song when I
was on the bus during the pandemic.
I wrote 10 songs by myself and just that isolation actually

(02:51:28):
create fueled me creatively. And I sat.
There with nothing else. To do and I just wrote songs.
And one of those songs was this song called Undivided, which I
sent to Tim McGraw and said, man, what do you think about
this tune? You know?
And he called me up instantly. He goes, dude, I love this song.
This is such a good tune. Like I got to put this song out.

(02:51:48):
And like, we, we got to put, I want to put it out like in two
weeks because of what's going on.
Like this can't be a song that comes out in six months.
So I'm like, bro, that's amazing.
Like that's the best call you can get from Tim McGraw.
You know what I'm saying? And then he said, I'd love for
you. I'd love for you guys to be on
it with me. And I'm like, oh boy, he has no
idea. Because again, this was 4, three

(02:52:10):
or four months after BK and I had had that phone call, right?
So then I called him like hey bro, just so you kind of know a
little context like BK and I aretaking a break from doing FGL
stuff. Whatsoever.
Like he's going to do the solo thing.
I'm probably just going to be like a stay at home songwriter
that, you know, just stay at home dad and worry about being a

(02:52:31):
dad for a while. So basically there.
Won't be any like FGL. Going on.
So I guess like I would love foryou to put this song out, but I,
I can't do anything. And he was like, well, you're
I'd love for you to just stay onif you want to.
And I thought, well, heck yeah, this is great.
I'll stay on this. Maybe I'll just be a songwriter.
The features on songs occasionally has a, you know,

(02:52:52):
Tyler Hubbard. So anyways, I agreed to do that.
And then a few weeks later, Borchetta calls me and he goes,
hey, buddy, I got a really cool opportunity.
I just got a call. They want you and Tim to play
the inauguration, that song thathe just put out.
And in my mind, I just thought, wow, what a like, what a cool

(02:53:15):
honor. Like, that's really neat.
I mean, to be honest. And that's in the.
And that was before country music was like really culturally
hot, you know what I'm saying? If that makes sense.
It even. It even meant more back then, is
all I'm saying. Yeah, that's a pop act.
Yeah, exactly. Big major, you know, you name
it. Whoever.

(02:53:36):
So. Anyways, I just thought, yeah
man, I'll, I'm happy to. Do that.
And at the time, I didn't have many advisors that I could call
and ask opinions like that and Ididn't even think I needed to.
And I just thought, well, cool, this would be great.
Yeah, when is it? And I'll be there.
So we we pre taped it in Nashville and obviously it
didn't even feel like a, you know, we weren't at the
inauguration or whatever, but. But honored to be a part of it.

(02:53:58):
And we were a part of it and it was great.
And then, yeah, that kind of gotturned on me.
And what I have. Done it.
If it were the other way around,absolutely what I've done it
still today, if I had the opportunity, That's actually, I
don't really know, to be honest.I'd have to really on either
side, on on either side for sure.

(02:54:19):
But even then, like if Trump hadbeen inaugurated, I would have
played it, right. I mean, I was honestly, I was as
middle as you could just about be at that point.
But at the same time, I wanted to support my country, right And
I? Didn't know that automatically
even though I should. Have as a bit, again, being a
bit naive that if you're a part of an inauguration, you're going
to be categorized as that side of the party lines.

(02:54:43):
You know what I mean? Obviously they probably didn't
think a Republican was coming toplay the Democrat inauguration.
But again, I just didn't. I wasn't so gung ho on either
side of I was just like, no, I'mjust going to participate,
right? Well, it's, it was interesting
because I was naive at that timetoo.
I don't think anybody really knew that you had to be.
So affiliated with one of the other side to be socially

(02:55:09):
accepted. I, I didn't I don't think we
knew there. It feels like that was the front
end of that starting to happen where both sides would get in in
the corner. And if you believe or think
anything over here. It can be really.
Dangerous. You could be misunderstood, you
could be feel like you're tryingto 'cause you could say what you
said. I remember that gun thing you
talked about, 'cause I was like you and I've shotguns together

(02:55:32):
quite a bit. I'm a big outdoorsman and a big
hunter. I also have a foundation that
works with survivors of mass shootings and I've been up close
to way too many of them not to. And I'm a scared parent to.
Drops my kids off at school and and I I don't want to get fully
into that now. And here's the reason why.
It's not that I'm I'm scared to do it and put myself out there,

(02:55:55):
I just haven't seen the way people putting themselves out
there make it any better or get us any closer to a.
Solution and I don't. Want to contribute to the divide
and until we can lower the noise.
It's kind of like if I'm workingwith a a client and if they're
hungry, sleepy, don't have a place to put a shelter over

(02:56:19):
their head, and I'm trying to talk to them about their trauma
when they were six years old. It's like the carts in front of
the horse here, right? First you got to give people
food, water, shelter, and make sure they're OK.
And then you might be able to gosomewhere.
Same thing if someone was dissociated or highly activated.
It's not the time to try to get in.

(02:56:41):
I wish I could remember this when I'm talking to my wife, not
that she's dissociated, but she's activated sometimes.
And I just keep pouring it on. I keep saying, yeah, but here's
what I believe. Here's the solution, here's the
solution. And all that does is make it
worse. And that's what everybody seems
to be doing right now is let me see now I'm going to get picked
on for that. Cause some people like, we got
to use your voice. Look at the great activists of
our time. I was like, yeah.
But I look back at the great ones.

(02:57:01):
I think they did a little different.
I think they found a compromise and they had civil discourse and
they didn't hate either way as good conversations because I, I
would at some point, I'm not going to be able to avoid it on
this format. You know, I, I hope to get into
this format and I don't want a vanilla Switzerland show, but I
want one that doesn't turn ears off where I, because seems like

(02:57:23):
most shows that get into that lane, you attract the ears that
believe you. So you end up preaching to the
choir and you're not influencingany change one way or the other.
I don't want that. You know, I but I, I do think
we're at this interesting dilemma because I remember when
you decided to go do that, I thought just like Scott.
Brachetta thought. I thought.
That's cool. You got asked to play the
presidential inauguration. I mean, how many people get to

(02:57:45):
do that, especially country artists.
That's a huge deal. I didn't think about the fact
that it was Biden's inaugurationand and that would mean
something because I remember we we're on a thread with a whole
bunch of other artists and that thread is diverse, politically
really diverse. And everybody that night was
saying congratulating you. Somebody threw the first one

(02:58:05):
out. We were piling on.
It's like, congratulations, man,That's so cool.
You got to do something like that.
And then the firestorm kind of started after.
And I think because you and if BK were in that spot at that
time, it only elevated and it accelerated it.
But I hope we get back to a time.
I think you're wise to contemplate that answer now if
it came back up, then work with a lot of other artists that have

(02:58:27):
been asked to play one side or the other.
And everybody's a little bit like, I don't know.
And it's, it's not always comingfrom a place of I'm trying to
protect my neighborhood and I don't want to get online
criticism. And hey, 'cause y'all are used
to that. It's Does this advance a
narrative of pulling people backtogether and have good
conversations, or is it going toget misinterpreted?
Not be worth the juice, not be worth the squeeze?

(02:58:48):
Feel like that's why you're asking it.
Yeah, totally. Yeah.
I mean, I wish I had thought about all those things.
Back then and, you know, but again, I don't have a lot of
regrets through this whole thing.
I mean, I can ultimately say that even doing that, I'm like,
man, I can tell my kids I playedan inauguration and for our
country. Like, was the backlash worth it?

(02:59:11):
I don't know. Was the false narratives and
feeling misunderstood worth it? Maybe.
But I'm still proud of it. You know what I mean?
I was really adamant at the end of this thing.
I just want to be able to be proud of myself and how I
handled it because, yeah, there are times for sure, bro, where I
wanted to just lose my shit. But I knew that wasn't going to

(02:59:32):
be constructive or beneficial. And it does feel good to kind of
have some time gone by and feel and feel the healing.
And then to be able to have conversations with BK and to be
willing to, and for both of us to be willing to go hang out in
a couple weeks and just rekindlethe friendship.
I mean, that's, that's where it all started and that's what's

(02:59:54):
most important. And I don't want to ever leave
this earth with any, with any bad blow with anybody or any
beef or any of that. And you know, is it unfortunate?
Parts of it unfortunate. How it played.
Out. Maybe so, but ultimately I'm
really happy where I'm at. But we're about to get to know
each other again for sure. But but yeah, I'm grateful for

(03:00:16):
it and the hard, all the hard times that the emotional times,
the hard conversations that phone calls, I mean, going
through a divorce and easy, you know, and that's essentially
what I went through, you know what I mean?
Luckily I have. A lot of good friends in my in

(03:00:38):
my life to get to lean on. But but yeah, man, it was
traumatic and tough for me and Haley and sure BK and B Cole.
You know. So what do you, what do you,
what do you hope for now that because there's there's three or
four things we talked about thatinevitably you're going.
To do one of two things. They're going to do both 'cause
somebody will cut it and say told you he's a, he wants to

(03:01:00):
take our guns. Even though I know you got to
say full of them at home, but also you want smart solutions.
But you've realized, even when you and I remember when you
stepped into that conversation. 'Cause you got invited.
From another friend who was really talking about it and and
when I when you say naively people that hearing this who

(03:01:23):
don't know you would be like. Really.
You didn't think about that? I can say no, he didn't.
I I know the way you move in theworld, if there's an innocence
and a disconnectedness from all the noise that you try to keep
your space. And so you can be creative and
you kind of follow your instinct.
If somebody says, hey, this might be meaningful, you want to
do this, OK, And then you give it a go if it.
Seems meaningful to me. Then I'm in.
I don't really think about too much about what does that mean

(03:01:46):
or what is the consequences. Or, but I'll see, I'll see what
they'll do that they could do here is they'll take that
conversation and try to pull it back together.
They might take that inauguration conversation.
And try to get into. The politics thing again, they
might take bits of the the BK narrative we talked about and
and come back on you with that and say Z.

(03:02:09):
So if you were take all is thereanything in in any of those
directions you'd want to clarifyand and say, well if you got the
real version the long form version here's what I want you
to know about me. Yeah good question.
I think ultimately 30,000 foot view if you really.
Want if you really want to know me?
In the truth. And this will try to try to

(03:02:30):
encompass all of this in into one.
But I don't follow a politician.I'll follow.
Jesus. I love BK, I'm extremely
grateful for the decade of incredible life changing
experiences that we had. Does it hurt or did it hurt?
Unfortunately, going through a divorce and a breakup.

(03:02:52):
Yes, it was not easy. We were.
It was a tough. Time.
Did we both handle it great? Probably not.
But ultimately, I care about BK.I'm extremely proud of what we
built. I'm extremely proud.
Of those years. It's a big part of my story, so
I don't want to just turn my back on it and I want to still

(03:03:15):
be able to celebrate it with notonly BK, but our whole team that
we did did it with, you know, whether it's Seth, England,
Chief, Joey, all those guys thatwe all kind of dispersed a bit.
But now it feels like guys, we had way too many blessings
poured on us to to not acknowledge how blessed we are
first of all and not. Acknowledge the friendships that

(03:03:37):
were made and built. Through it all and you know, at
this point, I just, I want to, Iwant to like highlight the good
and celebrate the good and forgive and let go of the bad
and if for no other. Reason for the sake.
Of my kids to be able to grow upand say, look, we look what my
dad did like not not look at thesuccess that he had, but look at

(03:04:02):
how he repaired that relationship.
You know it look at how he handled a really tough season,
you know, and I think that's what's most important 30,000
foot, you know, perspective on the whole thing.
Am I grateful? Yes, I'm so grateful to be here
now. I'm so grateful to kind of feel
like I'm got my head above water.

(03:04:22):
I can, I can see a little bit more clearly which helps even
with the rebuild of the relationship with BK, like the
desires there. So yeah, man, I.
I feel like ultimately. I'm in a good place and I will
say I've accepted that not everyone's going to believe me,
not everyone's going to want to believe me, Not everyone's going
to there's. They're not going to stop making

(03:04:46):
up narratives. But I can also be really happy.
And content with knowing but. My truth is out there.
Now you can choose to take it ornot.
And quite frankly, I don't really care.
I prefer you to, to believe the truth and, and, and let me feel
validated that I spoke truthful,you know, truthful enough to

(03:05:07):
give you guys some context and some real narrative.
But at the same time, I understand the world that I'm
in, the Internet and the, and, and again, people are drawn to
drama. If this, if this truth doesn't
have enough drama for them, they'll create their own truth.
And I'm OK with that. But yeah, just having it out
there, letting people know who Iput my faith in, where I stand
with BK, where I stand with FGL,it's freeing for me.

(03:05:30):
It feels really good because forso many years it was what we're
just going to just put that under the rug and not talk about
that or, you know, whatever. And that's just not who I am.
So it feels good to talk. It feels really good to talk to
you about it as a safe, you know, you're a safe place for me
and always have been. And so just being able to, to be
here and, you know, process someof this together has been

(03:05:53):
really, really good for me. So thanks.
Well, and and. I, I almost want to leave it
there. I kind of want to 'cause I just
thought that was beautifully said and.
Yet I'm curious if you wanted toadd anything on with the, the
political narrative. I, I personally have a, a belief
that people have the right to share certain parts of their

(03:06:15):
stories. And I think there are certain
parts that don't need to be shared.
Could or couldn't, I think, depending on what role you're
in. So I don't think, I think the
world's not going to like it. The world's not going to let go
of the world. People that are watching Chris,
they're not going to let go until you say, well, here's what
you think I am, but here's why Iam.
I, I'm not asking for that 'cause I think that's your
storytelling. Nobody's business, frankly, but

(03:06:38):
people have made-up a story. Well, I'll tell you that I will
say this and you've already already picked this up in this
podcast. But if you think I'm a political
person. At all.
You're already wrong. Just know that.
Just know that I'm really not. Like if I had to put myself
somewhere in the political spectrum, it would be.
Somewhere in the. Middle probably leaning more

(03:06:58):
right, but again, I'll put my faith and trust in Jesus and I
put my morals, values, and my myguidance for life in the Bible.
Not political stances or not politicians or not campaigns.
Like I just don't like I never have.
And I I just doesn't feed my soul.
So yeah, I mean, just to be veryclear, like I'm really not a

(03:07:22):
hardcore or anything. I'm a very like middle of the
road kind of guy leaning probably right based on my
morals and values and where I came from.
And I just want to love everybody.
I think that's what we're calledto do.
I don't think, I think this whole political setup and system
in the 1st place is a bit creative for divisiveness.
And that's, and if long as our country is divided, then the

(03:07:44):
goal is being met. You know what I mean?
So I, I would rather not follow the masses and not have to pick
a side and not have to feel likeI got to align or not align with
every single person. It's like, hey, like we may be
misaligned, but what do we have in common?
Oh, you got kids? Great.
Let's talk about being a parent or let's talk about what we're

(03:08:04):
learning this week, or, you know, what Jesus is doing in our
life instead of what politician was on the news this morning.
You know what I mean? So.
So, yeah, I mean, as far as the political conversation goes,
that's it's pretty simple with me, you know, very proud to be
an American, love my country, really proud to be from where
I'm from, Georgia, really proud to be an American.
But at the same time, yeah, I don't put my, I don't put all my

(03:08:27):
faith and hope in that for sure.Well, not I think it I don't
think I personally have a conviction that you can be
patriotic. And that's a good word and still
have beliefs that go in different directions and you
don't have to fully camp out in something to to feel like you're
the patriotic you're not based on where you are.

(03:08:49):
I actually I'm always in the business of trying to figure out
how do you solve problems? How do you first and to solve a?
Problem you first have to. Recognize a pattern.
So how do you do pattern recognition?
Well, pattern recognition, if you step three steps back from
what all is happening, it's verysimilar to what happens with an
individual. If an individual has a lot of
historic or current stress in their system and their nervous

(03:09:11):
system is just regulated, it canwreak havoc.
Psychologically, health, you know, physical health,
relationally, leadership, everything.
You can disrupt everything. And if I'm sitting across from
somebody that's in that space, then I happen to have to I have
to be creative enough to think about what's the bridge in not
what, what can I tell them that I know to be true and see what

(03:09:31):
happens with them because that'sjust going to shut down the
conversation. So I'm actually seeing those
that are willing to try to figure out how can I have a
conversation? How can we have conversations
with different people with different beliefs is one of the
most patriotic things we can do.I really believe that, and
that's one of the reasons you won't hear me talk about this
subject a lot on here. Maybe I'll talk about it more

(03:09:52):
down the downstream. I don't know.
Part of is that I'm a sensitive guy and I'm not ready for all
the blowback that's coming. Bye.
And I also, but, but the bigger reason is I just don't know that
that's the effective format to bring people in conversation
back to a civil discourse place where we can start to get the
solutions. I don't see it working at all.
The louder it gets, the worse itgets.
I don't see it working. It just seems like a lose lose

(03:10:13):
sometimes, don't it? And so I'm like, I'm, I'm gonna,
there's certain cards in in my deck that I people might be.
Surprised that I'm really. Aligned here and really, And
they may think I'm aligned thereand I'm OK with that because I'd
like to talk to people on both sides.
And that's hard to do in today'sworld.
It's got really hard to do everywhere.
And I, I, I hear you and that that's who you attempt to be.

(03:10:33):
It's who you want to be. Totally.
And I even think in order to give myself some motivation.
To even become more educated in the political space, that's one
of the motivators for me is, well, I want to know.
What the other side? Believes so I can relate to them
and talk to them about anything in life without putting my foot

(03:10:55):
in my mouth. You know what I mean?
Or, or looking really silly, like I at least need to have the
basic knowledge around what everyone either side believes.
So yeah, that's that has been part of my desire to learn and
grow in that space. But that's about the extent of
it. And there are also issues that
do become important when you become a parent or you become

(03:11:17):
like you said, you're dropping your kids off to school.
Yeah, you're going to think about the state of our country
with the mass shootings in schools, of course, which
becomes a very serious topic, which then all of a sudden you
realize, oh, this is a politicalconversation.
Oh, maybe I do care a little bitabout politics now that my kids
lives are at risk. But yeah, so there is that.
I mean, I I don't want to say I don't care like completely.

(03:11:39):
I'm not saying that in a lackluster, irresponsible way.
I just, I just mean that I don'twant my day-to-day life and my
mind to be wrapped around all that all the time.
You know, I don't want that to be my lighthouse.
I'm saying it too, because it's,I actually care significantly.
I follow it. I read in my study which I
literally sometimes I'll call you and say.
Miles, I got a dumb question. Can you help?

(03:11:59):
Can you please help me? Who's this guy they're talking
about now? I follow it and and I'm I'm
active, I'm involved, but I'm not active and involved out
loud. It's not the.
Platform I'm trying to create. I'm wanting to have these
conversations where they matter,show my cars to the ability to
build trust with people so that we can find a way forward
together. I really believe that's the way

(03:12:21):
forward. It's the only chance we got.
Otherwise we're going to get further apart, which is not fun.
Last thing I'll I want you to leave us with it's really A2
parter and then we'll we'll wrapit up the critics.
We started this conversation because.
I think you have. And I love this, by the way,
'cause I. Think historically you've never

(03:12:42):
used this part of. Your skill set, just
conversation or tour. You've even told me before over
the last few years, I don't think I'm any good at it and I
I'd even hear you segue a song or sitting.
A writer's. Round and tell a story.
And I was like, dude, you're waybetter at it than you think.
You've just always done it musically and you've kept the
other part. So I'm glad to see.
I saw you on a podcast this morning.

(03:13:03):
I think it's on I heart maybe. And I was like, yes, I want to
see you out talking more. I want to see people get to know
you. You started, we started this
conversation with like, who's the guy that is this mystery
that everybody thinks they know because he hadn't talked about
himself very much and you wantedto be known.
Somebody that doesn't drive the narrative themselves leaves a
gap for people to make up the narrative about them.

(03:13:23):
What you've done. And now you're turning this new
corner is like, no, I actually want to I want them to hear from
you. I'd like to in that wake, you've
had a ton of critics, still got some, you'll still have more
going. Forward they have more after
this show. I don't know how to.
Bring them all. Is there a a message that you'd

(03:13:44):
want to leave? For those that.
You feel like it misunderstood. You or given you a.
Hard time. What would you want them to
know? You know, there's first thing
that just popped into my mind isif you want to be a critic, then
criticize me for truth. And I'm OK with it.
I literally in my mind I'm like,why does it?
Bother me when when people criticize.

(03:14:06):
It really only bothers me if it's not true because I'm pretty
confident in who I am. I'm pretty, I'm pretty confident
in my faith and I'm and I'm and I usually mean everything I say
and I'm a just kind of like thatkind of guy.
So it's hard for me to feel. Misunderstood and then be.
Criticized for something that's actually not true.

(03:14:26):
Like so many times I'll be talking to Haley like this
person online, if they actually knew me, they're criticizing me.
And that's the exact opposite ofwho I am.
They literally, if they knew me,they'd probably but think the
complete opposite, right? They would probably think, oh,
well, good, we're great. He's just like me, blah, blah,
blah. So that I think that for some
reason, that's that would be what bothers me about the

(03:14:46):
critics. And I would I would tell the
critics if I could speak to him to Hey, don't believe everything
on the Internet and get to know me for my for who I.
AM and the. Truth around who I am and and
the truth around all the narratives.
And then if you still want to criticize me, then be my guest
because I truly understand that you're not going to avoid all
criticism. And I don't think we were meant

(03:15:08):
to. I think we were meant to handle
to take some criticism. Some of my biggest heroes in
life, including Jesus, got highly criticized.
So for me to think that I'm can just place play neutral enough
to never get criticized is not the it's not the path I want to
take. So yeah, criticize me all day,
but I encourage you to find the truth before you get the, you

(03:15:32):
know, doing the criticizing. And then the the the second part
of this would be I, I was prettymoved earlier in our.
Conversation when I started to. Get to know your dad.
More because we had a moment there because I I feel like I
know you and then I was like, I got to know you 3 layers deeper

(03:15:54):
and when I got to know your dad born here and you really slow
that story down and tell it likeyou really told that story and
that was a great moment. I make up that our kids growing
up in the world that we grow up in, I mean, the way I go back
and look at my dad's history, mymom's.
History is black and white. Photos, they don't have this
kind of stuff out in the world. There was no content then.

(03:16:16):
There was no video cameras in everybody's hands.
And it's a whole different experience.
But I make up that they know parts of us that their
developmental brains at their age can handle.
And then when they're 18 and 25,God willing, we're all still
here, then they're going to knowother parts of us.
And one of the ways they're going to define that is the
breadcrumb trails back to conversations like these.
And so if your kids are young adults, 18 to 25, and they dig

(03:16:43):
this up a message. That you have.
For them. Oh, that's a good one, Milo.
I think. I think my hope.
Would be that the message they would hear would be follow your

(03:17:03):
heart and follow it follow Jesusand love people.
Well, I think that's. Maybe follow Jesus first?
And then follow your heart. But either way, I do think those
three, I think it's pretty simple in life.
If I, from a parental standpoint, what I want my kids
to lean into as they get older and even through all these
conversations, if, if I had followed my heart and, and

(03:17:26):
follow Jesus a bit better and love people, well, you know,
some of these outcomes may have been a bit different.
You know what I mean? And I think if I was going to
they're going to dig this up, I think that's what I would want
them to take away from. It and for sure.
And then I'm and and so I hope they already.
Know this but their dad. Is not perfect and he is going

(03:17:48):
to mess up and mess up again andthen I'm going to try to repair.
So I think when I was growing up, I thought my dad was perfect
and invincible and mom the same way, almost physically
invincible. I remember like, oh, that'd be
in even till my dad passed away.I remember just thinking, Oh
yeah, he can. Make it do anything.
He's not. He's invincible.

(03:18:10):
And I think as I've gotten older, there's been
disappointments and realizing, oh.
They're not perfect or. They didn't know everything.
And I already tell my kids that now your dad's not perfect and
I'm going to mess up and I definitely don't know anything
and we're all learning together.But they still think you are.
They still think you're a superhero, you know what I mean?
And so I'd want them to know I did my.

(03:18:33):
Best, but I'm not. Perfect and never will be.
So maybe between all those things they can take something.
Well said. Well, I this was a great
conversation. I I.
Value all all the time I get to have with.
With you and friends like you and it was great just.
To lean into some of this part of it, I was even I, I, I'm so

(03:18:54):
protective of my folks. I don't want the narrative to
get lost because of the headline.
And I know it's going to, but wegot to tell the narrative
anyway. And I want you to feel heard,
valued, no matter what comes outof this thing.
And I also want the critics thatare criticizing me or you for
walking into any of this territory to know I'm I'm glad

(03:19:15):
you're here. I hope you see the human in US.
And I hope if you do or when youdo take some shots, that they
might not be cheap shots, but they might be like, hey,
appreciate the conversation, butI disagree.
And just if you can put a littlecontext in it, and I say the
same thing. I really want to be honoring
towards. I think this could also get
turned like it does because if Iwas sitting here talking to BK,

(03:19:37):
can I get turned towards you andHaley and BK and, and, and
Brittany I this is meant to be an honoring conversation.
It just happens to be that you are the other side of part of
it. And so if, if, if you hear
anything way through the the headlines and, and hear this
part, that the whole intent of telling this story is to try to
just be respectful to the peoplewho are a part of it.

(03:19:57):
And that's certainly what we hope to do with Y'all and.
I think that's how you move about the world.
That's how I choose to move about the world.
And that's the whole point of why we're doing human school to
begin with. So I really appreciate you being
a part of it, man. I love being here.
I love chatting with you always.And yeah, I hope so too.
I hope people feel encouraged and uplifted.
I hope. Even the Kelly's, I hope they
know that I love them. And I'm and I'm.

(03:20:19):
Grateful for them and really want nothing, nothing but the
best for them as well and excited for what the future
holds. But yeah man, thanks for having
me. Thanks for opening up the
opportunity to just be real and be vulnerable and, and lean into
some of this. So it's always fun, Milo.
All right, brother, Good stuff.

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