June 1, 2024 • 59 mins
"Rejection is just redirection." - Rachel Wegter
Join us in this not-to-be-missed episode as we sit down with Rachel Wegter, full-time college professor, beauty content creator, influencer, and mom. Rachel shares essential pieces of advice for anyone starting a business, emphasizing the importance of communication skills, strategies for launching a successful venture, and leveraging the power of influencers. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or looking to enhance your business acumen, Rachel's multifaceted perspective and valuable insights will inspire and guide you on your entrepreneurial journey.
Don't miss this episode filled with practical advice, personal stories, and the inspiring journey of a true multi-tasking powerhouse. Follow Rachel Wegter on her platforms and stay tuned for her upcoming projects, including a new hair care line and exciting beauty collaborations.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Music.
(00:24):
Balance in the Chaos. I am your host, Sharon McEntee, owner of Embody Med Spa and Phy Skincare.
I am so excited for today's episode.
I am joined by an ultimate mom boss.
This superwoman is a full-time college professor, a full-time beauty content
creator, and writer based in California.
(00:48):
Oh, and in her free time, she's developing her own hair care line,
plus making all sorts of Beauty Collaborations.
Welcome, Rachel Wendter.
Thank you so much for having me, Sharon. I'm really happy to be here today.
I'm looking forward to our conversation.
I am so excited. I'm just looking again at your resume and your websites, your social media.
(01:11):
We are definitely cut from the same cloth in the sense that we do like to pile
as much on our plates as possible.
And And I think we function really well that way. So I think this is going to be a great episode.
And I just want you to start by telling us a little bit about your background
and how you came to be where you are in your career with all aspects of that. All of it. Yes.
(01:38):
So I started off in education. I went to college and studied communication studies
and then stayed for grad school. And that's really where I first dabbled in
teaching was in grad school.
And I was given some classes to teach as a TA, which is really they just hand
you over a class of college students and say teach. And I got to grad school early.
(02:03):
Long story. But I was in grad school at a very young age.
So I ended up teaching students in college that were in many cases older than
I was, which was an interesting kind of way to start my career. But I loved teaching.
I didn't expect to have the feelings that I had for it. I'd planned on going
to law school, actually.
And when I started teaching at the college, I just found this new pathway for my life.
(02:29):
I'm not a capricious person. I couldn't stick to the plan.
But this was definitely on my heart to pursue this. So I ended up getting a
job right out of grad school at the college at Long Beach State where I went
and studied and taught in their communication studies department for years and
taught a variety of classes from public speaking to small group communication to linguistics,
(02:49):
all areas that I'm passionate about.
And at a certain point, I and I'm really expediting things here because it's
been a long and winding road.
But I I was hired at a high school down the street, a large urban high school
to run a speech and debate and journalism program, two separate programs that were in my field.
So I was splitting my time.
(03:10):
I'm going up and down a large fairway, thoroughfare, that's the word I want,
between the campuses and teaching all day at both places.
And I think that really sharpened my abilities in the classroom very inherently
because no one is tougher on you than a room of high school students.
(03:31):
I mean, you really have to get thick skin and have management for a diverse
population of different personalities and everyone's coming to the room with their own issues.
And so that was very, I think, that helped me to grow a lot as an educator.
And all while I was teaching college, which was relatively easy and super enjoyable,
(03:52):
very natural. So the combination was something that I think really honed my
craft as a professor, ultimately, down the line.
And then at a certain point, I went into the community college system.
So I was teaching a large state school, university, went to the community college system.
As somebody who worked her own way through college, I really respect that ethos
(04:13):
of just hustling, working, paying for things each semester.
And so I really identify with the students in that. I went straight to a state
school, but I identify with that community college experience.
I think it's a great place to get that first two years out of the way.
So I was hired at a local community college and down the line,
fast forward a few years, I started my beauty business called Beauty Professor.
(04:38):
I was on a winter break and had this excess creative energy.
I had written a public speaking textbook book with another professor.
And that had been a couple of year project.
We got a publishing team that of course should be pulled into all these deadlines
on. And when I was finished, I just had this excess desire, this desire to continue writing.
So I started writing about makeup, which was something I was always interested
(05:00):
in and fascinated by. I had been a model through college and grad school.
So I was on set a lot, asking makeup artists all sorts of questions.
I never could buy the makeup that they were using because all my money went
to paying for school. Cool.
But once I finally had disposable income, I started collecting kind of interesting,
luxury, hard to find products.
And in that space where I began my blog,
(05:22):
which is a totally outdated word now, but that's what they were at the time
back in 2012, I started writing about these products, not really knowing who
was out there on the other side of the screen, but I learned pretty early on.
I had a great audience of people who were interested in the things I was talking about.
And so that's where Beauty Professor was born, arm combination of my jobs.
(05:42):
And that's something I had. It's turned into a full-time multi-channel business
for me that really just started as a creative hobby side project endeavor.
And I'm so grateful. So I now currently teach full-time. I'm tenured at the college.
I'm department chair. I teach seven classes a semester.
And then I do be the professor full-time, which means, and I'm sure you can relate to this.
(06:06):
Not a lot of sleep, but something has to be compromised in the grand scheme
of things. So it's my sleep right now.
And I'm also the mom, and this is my chief job of a five and a half year old
named Joey. And she's amazing.
I love it. I love it. I love it. It's amazing.
I want to touch on a few things that you had mentioned, but one of the things
that I find very admirable is that you built your audience for Beauty Professor
(06:31):
authentically by being honest, by being credible.
And I think that that's amazing.
And then that's why it has continued to grow and launchy where you are.
And so what is your advice to other people who are either starting a social
media presence, creating a new business?
(06:51):
What's some advice that you could give them in that realm?
Absolutely. It is a tough, full disclosure.
I think I started at a great, an accidentally great time. The landscape,
digitally speaking, was very fertile.
There was less competition.
There were emerging apps. Instagram was pretty new at that point.
(07:15):
TikTok wasn't even a thing. It was something else at that point in time.
But it was an accidentally great time to start.
And I recognize it's a lot harder this day and age should just start fresh.
Not impossible, but definitely more challenging because there's a lot of voices out there.
And I would say my one approach all along through it all, watching trends come
(07:39):
and go different, you know, you're in the grace of certain brands and then you're
out for a while because you're clipped by other voices and then you might come back.
The whole focus for me is threefold. One, it's consistency.
So maintain, just keep on creating things you feel good about,
even when you don't want to, even when you're tired, even when something doesn't
(08:02):
do as well as you hope, which a lot of times is not due to the content,
but due to your reach that day or the algorithm, it truly all those factors
are significant and really out of our hands.
So it's just about maintaining consistency with really good content you would want to watch.
Also, trust in your audience will find you. So riffing off of that point,
(08:22):
if you're creating things that you you would like to watch, that you would speak
to you, trust that your people will find you because it's going to speak to them too.
And I think when we try to be everything to everyone, we end up not having the
success we hope for because you can't be. I mean, that's just not a realistic endeavor.
(08:42):
So trying to really focus on your specialty, that honest voice,
and maintaining that consistently is really important. And then the third thing I would say is.
Don't take shortcuts. And that may or may not be the best advice for people
these days, but it's the best advice for me. So I'll be real about that.
I've never bought a follower, never bought a like, never been in a comment pod,
(09:04):
never paid for engagement, never boosted my own posts.
This is stuff that is expected this day and age, especially.
It certainly wasn't when I started. In fact, if you had heard of somebody buying
followers, it was like, oh my gosh, what are they doing?
But now it's the norm for so many creators and businesses because the algorithms
are not friendly to really anything.
(09:25):
So if you want to get views, there's that urge to enhance things in that way.
And for me, I'm not about that.
It's a hard road. It really is because it's kind of demoralizing sometimes when.
The numbers don't look like what they should and you see other people's numbers
and you know that those numbers aren't real either, but they're doing something
(09:48):
else to make that happen. in.
But at the end of the day, you just stand by your content. For me, I stand by my content.
I know my followers are real, which really inspires me when I'm creating content to think about them.
It's very freeing, I guess, if your followers are not real because who cares,
right? You just create what you create.
But there's a serious onus there. But I would say my conversion rate.
Response rate, engagement rate is very strong because my followers are real.
(10:12):
And that's what matters to me at the end of the day, adding value to their experience.
I love that. And I do, I agree with you 100%. One of the hardest things that
I found when I first started getting an online or social media preference,
excuse me, and I'll be honest with you that I didn't pay much attention to it
for my business until COVID.
Until the lockdown, when I was forced to, right, I had to get in front of my
(10:35):
clients so they didn't forget that I was there and they knew that I was coming back.
And, you know, my business was shut down for 14 weeks and that forced me to
get in front of that camera, get over my discomfort.
And I hear public speaking, but for whatever reason, when the video turned on,
it was a whole different thing. Right. Right.
And it is for people. Yeah, absolutely. And then one of the hard things was
(11:00):
when my marketing team would start deleting not real followers,
and I'd see my numbers go down.
I now know that that's fine because I'm in front of the people who want to see
my business, who my content is made for.
But when you're looking at it from just a numbers perspective,
(11:21):
it can be extremely frustrating.
Damn, I've never bought followers. And again, my bots all get deleted.
And, you know, so it is all very organic build and it takes forever.
Right. I've been doing this since 2012. I think I hit 100,000 followers early
(11:42):
this year, late last year.
And that's, you know, everyone's path is different. Someone can go viral,
they have real followers.
I'm not saying that there isn't a lot of success out there or that the people
who have extremely large accounts are all buying them.
I'm not saying that, but I will say there's a lot of padding going on.
But that being said, everyone's path is different.
(12:02):
And for me, I'm really happy with where I'm at and just going to trust the process.
But yeah, it does take a lot of time.
I think if you're looking for quick results, you know, brands feel that pressure
to just kind of jumpstart things.
But in the end, is that going to give you real customers, which would be the goal, I would assume.
I mean, that would be the objective. And no, optically, it looks like something's
(12:27):
happening, but it's kind of hollow, you know, if you took a closer look.
Absolutely. I actually just read this morning, one of social media content person I follow.
So So she helps to coach people in social media. She posted something this morning
that I thought was very profound, where she said, if your goal is just to go
(12:47):
viral, you're missing the point.
Yes, that's a great way to build your followers. But for example,
if you own an ice cream shop.
And you go viral for a video of your puppy.
Right. Who cares? Because the people you're getting in front of aren't your
ice cream shop customers. They're people who like puppies.
(13:09):
It's just so true. I mean, I've had certain videos go viral where they have and they have it.
Ninety nine percent of my content is always beauty or skincare focus.
Right. Or some fusion of that with communication.
But once in a while, there'll be something that's a little bit different.
And if it gets a ton of views, it's great. great, you are getting a lot of followers,
but they don't know you. They don't know your content.
(13:31):
They don't have any context for what kind of value you've tried to add to the space all this time.
And so, you know, on one front, you get in front of eyes and followers that you didn't have before.
That's great. But on another, you're right. If they are not otherwise aligned
with the kind of content that you create, there is a disconnect there.
And eventually that becomes obvious. Yes, absolutely.
(13:54):
So you teach in communication studies.
How important? I know you've done some posts that I love about public speaking.
I am a huge advocate for teaching kids at a very young age to get comfortable public speaking.
Two of my kids are theater kids, and I think that that helps to build confidence. I love that.
(14:17):
So it's how important if we were to tie this together, how important is the
ability to communicate with starting a business or just being successful in
business, even if it's not your own?
Yes. One thing I lead with in my classes is that the majority of employers,
unless it's a really specialized business, niche business.
(14:40):
The majority of employers have prioritized communication skills at the top of
the list for what they're looking for when it comes to a potential employee.
And that's something that I lead with in my classes, whether it's public speaking
or organizational comm, like business communication, public relations.
I want my students to understand the exigence of giving yourself that edge to
(15:04):
communicate well in a world where that has been deprioritized on some fronts very intentionally.
And on others accidentally we think
about the last four years of covid and what that did to everybody's
ability to communicate it it
changed everything and not for the better so i mean the level of anxiety the
(15:25):
level of apprehension that people have that was always natural for some has
exponentially increased when people were essentially out of practice for four
years So getting back into that is essential.
And I feel like communication skills, feeling comfortable, expressing yourself,
being able to read the room, which is a part of it as well, having that rhetorical sensitivity.
(15:49):
All of these ideas that I teach in my classes give my students an edge when
it comes to being a potential employee or if they're already employed,
knowing how to navigate the nuances of their jobs.
Also, in business, I think the most successful business, the entrepreneurs,
(16:10):
the business owners, those working for business, the most successful people
are able to communicate competently, right?
It's not that everyone has to be this stellar TED Talk type of person,
but to be able to express yourself cogently, clearly, with respect,
with rhetorical sensitivity,
these are things that I think help you to thrive in your respective area.
(16:33):
So being able to prioritize that in the classroom as I get to is such a blessing.
I love, I'm very passionate about getting to do that. And I think we need so
much more of that in an age where you truly have people in a,
you know, 18 to 25-year-old age range who don't even want to pick up the phone
because of the apprehension that it presents them.
(16:53):
So trying to work through that's an uphill battle, but it's an important one.
Absolutely. And I find that people have lost...
Not everyone, obviously, I'm making a very generalized statement here.
People have lost the ability to even interview effectively.
I find that speaking on the phone to potential candidates, having them sit across
(17:17):
from me, it's so different than what it was 10 years ago.
Yes. And I think that I don't know if schools are failing them or are we failing them. I don't know.
And I do think that even if you have the ability to just come in and speak confidently,
(17:37):
you are going to have a leg up on everybody. but really, truly to be able to speak.
And there's a few things that kind of indicators that I really focus on or qualities
that I focus on with my students, things like being able to speak with good eye contact.
That's important. There are so many people who just want to avoid eye contact at all costs.
And I argue it is one of our most powerful elements as a human being to be able
(18:00):
to look somebody back in the eyes.
Zoom is always wild because I have to be right here in the camera and then I
can't see you, right? It's mentally confusing.
We haven't perfected that yet, But in general, face-to-face,
that eye contact is essential. Being able to speak without verbal fillers, which is it?
A challenge. Certainly something I worked through for years to get to a place
(18:20):
where they weren't posing an issue for me, but it's something anyone can do
with enough time and focus and determination.
But these are small changes that cost nothing. You don't need a special coach or a workshop.
I mean, that could be nice, but you don't actually need that.
You just need a lot of self-determination and self-reflection to accomplish
these things, and they will be infinitely beneficial in the the workplace, in a job interview.
(18:46):
I cover job interviews extensively in my classes.
Even yesterday, we were doing a mock interview process for one of my class,
one of my 200 level classes.
And the students get asked one of five very commonly asked interview questions
and need to answer it on the spot.
And I give them a grade based on how I think they did.
And that's daunting, but incredibly important because it's shocking how many
(19:10):
students will just go into an interview you without having really thought about it at all.
And how valuable you are providing such valuable information to them.
That's amazing. That's amazing.
I feel like they should be doing that even in middle school,
starting in middle school.
Absolutely. I was homeschooled until high school.
(19:31):
And so my experience, even with speech was very different because you have a
lot of leeway in homeschool to cover multiple subjects, subjects that extend
far beyond what you might get in a typical school day.
So we did a lot with rhetoric and public speaking. And that was something that
my parents prioritized for me.
And so I obviously had a bit of an advantage on that front with lots of early years practice.
(19:56):
But I agree with you. It's not something we're prioritizing for children.
And that's where you can really get comfortable.
It's like we're missing those formative years. And so finally,
some students don't get their first experience with public speaking until they're
18, 19, 20 or beyond in their first public speaking class.
And to me, that's egregious when you think about the fact that we are expected
(20:17):
to express ourselves daily.
Love that. And how forward-thinking of your parents. That's amazing. Great.
So let's talk a little bit about any advice, suggestions that you think would
help people who are trying to launch a new business or gain a social media presence.
(20:38):
Going back to some of the things I mentioned before, this idea of consistency,
I think it's just, let me back up a little further.
I think we as humans, when we're creating, it's very natural to want to wait
until everything is just so.
Just I've got all the right this or all the right that or the equipment or you're
(21:00):
waiting for some kind of sign to finally get going.
And my argument will all, based on my own experiences, will always be just do
it. Just do what you can in the moment.
Don't wait for everything to be right? Because in my opinion,
it rarely, if ever, will be.
It's kind of the same with having kids. I do think you should think about it.
Obviously, prepare as much as you can, but you'll never feel totally ready.
(21:23):
I mean, we prepared as much. And then when it was happening,
we're like, oh my gosh, are we ready for this?
You figure it out, right? So as a mom, you get this completely three times over, right?
Exactly. And you're never financially ready either, which again,
Again, it relates to business.
Yeah. You figure it out, right? It always works itself out with enough time and determination.
(21:43):
But with starting a business, with starting in social media,
I think don't put these prerequisite expectations about what you need in order to do it.
I, for one, started my site back in 2012 when, of course, it was a different landscape.
Without a good camera, I took pictures with my cell phone.
And when I look back at these posts, which I still have left on my site strictly
(22:05):
because I like to see the growth.
It's nostalgic, right? Sometimes people will take away their first five years
of blogging because it just looks atrocious compared to what they do now.
I like it. I'm like, look how far I've come. I was shooting everything with my iPhone.
No good light, bad angles. I knew nothing. And I was just writing.
I knew how to write. That was certainly something I would have been...
(22:28):
Prepared for, but everything else was just doing what I could do.
And then of course, as you go, you, you learn how to refine.
Okay. Eventually I got a great camera and eventually I learned how to use it, which is another thing.
I eventually got, got, got lights and figured out, you know, a schedule for things.
And, but in the early days I was just going to the stores.
(22:51):
I was watching things on my arm. I was shooting and, and those posts are to
this day, some of my most successful because they were helping people.
I think if your goal is to be a resource, to add value in some way,
and you hold on to that and you just start going with what you have,
that's a winning combination.
If you are trying to do it for your own, I guess, just to self-aggrandize or
(23:15):
to get clout or free product or rise in fame...
That motivation is also going to influence your freedom to just get started,
right? Because you are overthinking it to some extent with this strong intention.
So for me, just having no intentions, starting with really very basic skills
and growing, that to me is something I will always encourage people to do now.
(23:39):
I do think somebody starting now already has a leg up on where I was.
We have better apps for editing. We have lights. You buy for 20 bucks on Amazon.
There's so many resources that make it easier.
So really, we have no excuse for not starting. Just start. Don't wait for something
to be perfect. It never will be.
(23:59):
Agreed. Agreed. I love that you keep your old posts so that people could see
the evolution of your business, your growth.
One of the biggest myths that I told myself when I was starting my business
was that other people knew more than I did when they started their business.
(24:21):
Other people knew what they were doing from day one. And what you learned is no.
It's a learning process. Correct. But one of my favorite quotes is success leaves clues.
So you just seek out the people, the professionals, those that you admire those
(24:41):
that are killing it and you learn from them.
I love that quote. Yeah, I love it.
Success leaves clues and you
seek out help where you need it and you can't be afraid to ask for help.
No. And you learn as you go. Right, right.
And there's so much, I mean, people would come to, have come to me for years and just been like,
(25:04):
well, it's funny, even students who come to office hours for,
with me over Over the years, once they figured out what I did,
and I was pretty compartmentalized about what I did in beauty versus what I
did in academia because...
I don't think my colleagues really understood what I was doing.
I mean, it was an emerging field at the beginning. And I think it was more like,
oh, you write about lipstick. You're great. How cute.
(25:28):
Right. How cute. Right. I've been published in academic journals.
I've written textbooks.
And here I'm doing this thing that seems very kind of light in comparison.
Though clearly it's a whole multifaceted business that has allowed me to give
so many great opportunities to my students over the years because of my connections
and ability to, you know,
my placement in the business but i have had students come in and be like i would
(25:51):
love to do what you do and i'm like you want to be a professor like no i want
to be a beauty influencer.
Right and then their next question is what do i how do i start what do i do
i don't really know what i want to write about and like that is that is right
there that is the caveat that's the flaw you need to have a passion just something
(26:13):
you care about and i can't tell you what that is.
I can ask you some clarifying questions and maybe help you to get there,
but I can't say, hey, write about this. It'll be successful.
No, because if it's not inherently natural to you to want to share in that way,
it's that lack of natural interest is going to impact your content, your authenticity.
(26:34):
So it's really about just having a passion for whatever it is and just start talking about it.
Just get out there and start talking about it and you'll figure out the rest as you go.
And one thing with social media, too, is that we often look at successful businesses, entrepreneurs,
(26:58):
influencers, and all we're seeing is the tail end.
We're not seeing the struggle that got them to where they are.
And so I think that there's often
this misconception that you can have an account
or a business on day one and it's going
to be uber successful right right and that's so far from the case and it's even
(27:23):
harder now I mean reach on Instagram was effortless at the beginning my affiliate
earnings when I started monetizing were effortless when the landscape was so much
smaller and commissions were so much larger for retailers because everyone,
it was an, once again, it was an emerging business.
And as that, all of those, those elements become saturated, all of your earning
(27:47):
potential shrinks a little bit.
And the comp, cause the competition is vast and the commissions are lower because the.
And that's just one dimension, but like that, that, so you just maintain,
right. And the earlier days were easier on some fronts.
Obviously my business is more robust at this point.
And you know, my, my, my rates for projects and all of that,
(28:08):
but, but it's all still uphill.
Even if it was, even if I've gotten to a different place, a more advanced place
in my career now, it's still, you're in some ways you're all,
I hate to say that I don't believe this, but I do feel like this is something to bear in mind.
You're only as good as your last post or your last campaign or your last whatever
on some front in the eyes of some. I think our value is more inherent than that.
(28:31):
And that mindset can be throttling for us. If something doesn't go well,
we're like, oh, it's over.
No, I mean, you go on to the next thing. But it's very ephemeral, right?
I mean, you can have a whole list of things you've done and then like,
okay, but how did this do?
So I think the fortitude of just continuing to to move forward,
to continue and to refine and improve really essential and not get caught up
(28:54):
in all of the ups and downs because there will be.
There are days you feel like nobody sees your work and full transparency,
like, why wasn't I invited to that?
And other days you're like, there's seven things I'm invited to.
I can only make it to two. And wow, this posted amazing.
That's just the ups and downs of life. And I think we have to bear in mind it
will always be like that.
(29:15):
And that's true with brick and mortar businesses as well, that if you look at
your revenue from day to day, it could be a little more daunting than if you
take a step back and look at your quarterly revenue, right?
Right. Because it does, it all kind of shakes out and there's this ebb and flow
and you learn these things as you grow in your business and you begin Begin
(29:40):
to not panic as much when you see, oh my gosh,
here's one day where the revenue was in the tank and now this day it's huge.
So I love that. And that's an excellent segue into….
Some of your creative approaches to product launches or influencer relations, collaborations.
(30:01):
Let's talk about that, where you are, how you got there and what advice you
can give others who are looking for that.
Sure. I find that I have, you know, I've done a lot of consulting on the business
front through via communication.
So lots of corporate consulting over the years. And then And my consulting in
the beauty business has been more informal.
(30:24):
Let's put it this way. I probably should be charging for the advice I give to
the people in the relationships I've built over the years where all of us have
grown together in a decade, right?
People that were started at this point in a business are now VP of sales or whatever.
And so there's that fine line between friendship and honest conversation and
helping each other out because that's what you do and consulting.
(30:46):
But I'll just say some of the things I know well, having been in this influencer
space that wasn't even called influencer when I started,
that has to do with the idea of how you work with a brand and understanding
your worth in that process.
I think it's important to have some set rates.
It's always confusing because just like in every business sector,
(31:11):
people don't talk about their salaries, right?
That's kind of put down upon and it's kind of taboo to talk to your coworkers
about what everyone's getting paid. I always tell my classes,
that's an interesting situation to analysts.
Why is that? Who's benefiting from that? Certainly not the workers, right?
Because if everyone talked and were more transparent, there'd be more power in the ask.
(31:33):
But in influencer space, it's been the wild west, everything's evolved,
everything's still evolving.
And I feel like I have one very close friend who does exactly what I do.
We've grown up together in this business and we're very candid with each other about rates.
If there's one person you can trust to have a conversation, we've been able
to help each other as we try to match rates for the brands we work with and have some context.
(31:58):
Otherwise, you have nothing. You don't know where to start.
And obviously, your numbers, your reach, your engagement, there's a lot of elements
that should influence what you're asking for.
But one thing that I always remind influencers of is when you're agreeing to
money for a project, always separate out usage and have that be another amount because...
(32:18):
As an influencer, we are doing, we're essentially making commercials, right?
Content, especially if it's video, you're making a commercial,
you're creating a beautiful ad in some way.
And that's taking the place of a creative director, an ad agency,
hiring a model or an actor, wardrobe stylist, makeup artist,
(32:42):
hairstylist, set location.
I mean, so, I mean, that's 10 things, right? Almost 10 things right there.
And there's probably more I'm missing that the photographer or the videographer,
like we're doing all of that as one person.
And you learn that as you go. And that doesn't mean you need to charge the $30,000
that that would cost, but it does mean don't undersell yourself because you
(33:03):
are creating for a brand and giving them all of that from one person.
And then on the other side, how is it being used, right?
I did tons of national commercials commercials in college. And that was how
I paid for school. I'm grateful.
But you get your pay for doing the commercial and then you get paid for when
the commercial runs because that's the other side. That's really where the money is.
(33:25):
Usage is something I think a lot of newer influencers forget about.
I mean, if you give over your content in perpetuity, that's a misstep.
I mean, there needs to be, there need to be set terms, 30 days,
60 days, you can use it this way. Here's what it will cost.
If there's a white listing or paid ads, that's more.
It's not about being greedy, but it's about understanding that those things
(33:48):
are separate pieces of the pie rather than an all-inclusive thing,
unless someone's offering you an insane amount of money and it just works that way.
So that's something I educate influencers on in conversation and also brands,
because I think it's important for them to understand if you were to piece all
this stuff out, what that would look like.
And that's something I've only learned from personal experience.
(34:10):
I've made made the misstep of agreeing to stuff and regretting it later.
And I've also since then, you know, adjusted accordingly.
This is such an interesting perspective from a business owner's point of view
who's worked with influencers.
And I love hearing your perspective on it.
I, as a business owner, one of my first collaborations, I made the mistake of not having a contract.
(34:37):
Okay, great. Just so excited. This person, and she's not a true influencer,
to be perfectly honest with you. That's not her job or her career.
But I wanted to get in front of her audience. It was, I thought, a great collaboration.
And we were offering free services for her honest opinion.
(34:58):
And I didn't get a contract. And she didn't post.
And she also was making some disparaging comments, not about my business,
but about services in general that are offered by us.
So, for example, we had her do CoolSculpting, and in her post about CoolSculpting,
(35:23):
she was talking about how she would never get Botox and she would never refer
anyone to get Botox, which is fine to have that opinion,
but you can't say that when you're promoting a business that offers that service. It's important.
Right. So we learned very quickly, okay, we have to spell out all these terms
(35:43):
in the contract and all of it and how many times they need to post and et cetera,
et cetera. So I love that.
And then do you, so from a business person's perspective, for somebody who,
for example, is launching a product, regardless of what that product is,
where do you think they should start?
(36:04):
I mean, I wouldn't necessarily go to someone like you who is top-tier influencer.
They're going to start with somebody a little bit newer, I would say, audience.
How would you recommend that they approach that person or try to get a collaboration with that person?
Sure. I think a business needs to be clear on what they want.
(36:28):
What kind of ROI are they looking for? Are they looking for...
Brand recognition, brand exposure, someone to help with customer acquisition.
Are they looking for actual conversions where a set of people are actually buying the product?
Are they looking for just posturing this product in the context of other great products?
(36:51):
And that's a whole other space, right? Where it's not just a dedicated post,
but something like, here's how I integrate this along with all these other things
that are already established in
a routine. I always think that's a really interesting angle for a brand.
Let people see it in the context of other established brands.
Some brands, and I'm off on a tangent here, but some brands will be like,
no, I just want you talking about my brand.
(37:12):
And I tell them like, okay, if it's on brand for me and it feels right, sure.
But I'm very hesitant usually with stuff like that because it's hard to be on
brand unless you've already been talking about them a ton organically.
And otherwise, Otherwise, I think you get more reach when you have something
in the context of other things, because people might have come to you for this
(37:34):
thing, but now they learn about this thing, right?
And they see how everything works in a routine.
For most of us, we're not just using one brand of anything in life.
So I think there's actual very significant value in combining things,
even if only one of the brands is paying for that inclusion.
Conclusion so something to think about there but i i
(37:55):
feel like product seeding is always a great way to
start and really you want to look to see when
you're picking people to send to who is actually talking about product organically
right for me i with skincare especially i will share to my followers hey this
this skincare just came in and i probably truly talk about seven to ten 10%
(38:18):
of what's actually in my house or what comes my way.
I've been doing this so long. Stuff shows up unsolicited every day.
It's insane, actually. But...
If I'm sharing something in skincare and it's brand new, I'm going to say it like this.
Here's this new eye cream or this new lip product or this new serum.
I'm going to give it a try. I'm looking forward to it. Here are the things that
(38:39):
it claims to do. Have you guys heard of this brand? What do you think?
Want to put it on your radar?
I love to, you know, with brands I like, I love to share that way.
But I'm not going to say, here's this thing. It's amazing.
I love it. I'm obsessed because I haven't used it. Right.
And that's from an authenticity standpoint. point, I would recommend staying
away from influencers who are obsessed about every thing every day because they
(39:01):
couldn't possibly have tried it.
And they just think that their conversions, if you took a look,
are probably not great because of what I've just said. I don't need to say anymore.
So it's about seeding to people that talk about things organically.
If it's for getting your product out there for brand recognition, that's a goal.
(39:21):
If it's about trying to convert and sell things. You want to look at people
that you think are doing that already that you would buy from and use that as a baseline.
And just be really clear and aligned. What I will never do personally is work with a brand.
Well, this day and age, work with a brand on dedicated content where my payment
(39:44):
is just commissions, but I'm creating dedicated content for them.
A lot of brands will come to and want that and I get it. It's great for the
brand, but now I'm a salesperson and that's not really what I do.
I might make sales, my business matters, but I'm not there to convince anyone to buy something.
I'm there to share things I like, to give reasons, to give insight.
And if other people find that compelling, they're going to respond.
(40:06):
So I don't like to set up my work about, okay, I'm going to create this thing.
And now I have to somehow make up for that on the back end with sales.
But that's what a lot of brands will do. I usually say like,
don't go down that path for a brand, for an influencer. I think there are better
ways of achieving mutually beneficial goals.
Do you think that there is a platform right now that's better for brand new
(40:32):
businesses to get launched?
Not to put you on the spot or to downplay any other platform,
but in your opinion, what do you think?
I think that I've seen an evolution. I think it was Instagram initially.
We really saw a lot of business traction there. I think Instagram has
(40:54):
drastically messed with the algorithm with an intention of inspiring people
to pay for reach and boosting the reach of their already existing followers,
which is problematic and troubling to me.
And yet that's the situation. So
we watched the switch from Instagram to TikTok talk
(41:15):
in 2020 right and tiktok was the new kid on
the block and it was still relatively
pure and so people could grow audiences really
quickly i would say the same things i've just said about instagram i'm hearing
about tiktok now so it's four years later i don't know that it's really any
better on that front i think everyone's complained about tiktok's reach and
(41:38):
and because Because you've included a commerce component like TikTok shopping.
So is that any better?
I don't, probably not at this point. YouTube, I still think has a lot of potential,
has not been messed with from an algorithm standpoint as profoundly as the other
two apps I've mentioned.
And I would say there's consensus in the beauty community about that.
(42:00):
So that's always a great way to just kind of start, especially with long form content.
So they have shorts as well. But for me, I'm hearing people actually shifting
back to Instagram after recent experiences with TikTok. And also….
TikTok has been a little bit more of the Wild West, which is good.
I mean, bad and good, I would say, right? As somebody who values just multiple
(42:22):
perspectives on things.
But I think the comments are also equally unpredictable and unhinged.
And people want to be in a space where they don't feel weird over time.
And I think sometimes you really feel that in TikTok.
So I don't know if I gave you a
really linear answer there, but that's my analysis of everything going on.
(42:43):
I'd still say always secure an Instagram
for your business and contemplate YouTube. That's my short answer.
I think what you just gave was an amazing answer.
So I appreciate you. I do appreciate the honesty and the reasoning behind it.
I feel too that I love and hate social media.
Social media has definitely been able to increase my revenue for my business,
(43:10):
giving me brand awareness.
Do I hate that I am kind of, you know, locked into this algorithm and having to play the game yet.
But I mean, I guess that, you know, you're, you're in it, right.
You're in it and you don't have too much say over it, at least from where I stand.
I'm not a powerful player on the social media.
(43:30):
You truly don't. You just don't. I have calls with Meta as a creator.
They'll invite you to have a call, talk about strategy.
I've had multiple conversations. And they will say the same thing.
We don't really know why it works the way that it works.
I mean, when you're at that level and having those kinds of conversations and
that's the takeaway, it's just kind of like, okay, I guess I'll just keep doing
(43:51):
what I'm doing and hope for the best because I'm not getting anything substantive here.
Right, right. Exactly. Exactly.
So I know I don't want to occupy too much of your time.
One of the other things I wanted to talk about, and again, if there's anything
that you feel I've missed, but my podcast is Finding Balance in the Chaos.
(44:14):
And so as somebody who is balancing these three major areas of your life,
motherhood, being a professor, and being this amazing beauty expert influencer,
how are you balancing it?
And what is your advice to people who are thinking, I don't know if I can handle it all.
(44:34):
I love that question. And I get that question a lot from people who might see
my life through the lens of social media. You know, I share some time on campus.
I share, obviously, my beauty content, talk about home life a little bit,
though I do keep a lot of boundaries up there strictly because...
That's just been my path all along to have a little healthy separation.
(44:59):
But I would say I like the word chaos as you've included it, right?
I think that's an important word because it does feel chaotic a lot of the time.
And I feel like I am flying by the seat of my pants most of the time with the
intention of not feeling that way for the next week. I'm like,
(45:20):
next week it'll be calm, right?
There's this, okay, I got through it. I was flying by the seat of my pants,
barely got everything done the way I needed to.
Next week, I think I can try this with a little more grace, but I've been saying
that for years. So I don't know if next week ever comes.
I think there is always going to be a sacrifice when you're doing multiple things.
(45:40):
And I think it's really about being aware of what that sacrifice is going to be.
For me, I love what I get to do professionally, but I never wanted to sacrifice
my relationship with our daughter for that.
I was on TikTok at the beginning of its heyday at the fertile times.
And I was also home with my daughter
(46:00):
who was two and a half at the one and two-ish, almost two at that time.
And I decided I don't want to miss this time now maintaining my site, YouTube and Instagram,
all of which I had active, you know, partnerships and business on for another app.
(46:20):
And I deleted it within a few months. It was growing and I just got off.
And that was kind of a drastic move. And probably, you know,
I would be in a different space on TikTok if I hadn't done that.
But I don't regret it because that was time that I was able to really focus.
I did not want to regret that time of not being with my daughter in that way.
The other stuff I had figured out, and it's still crazy, but I think you always
(46:44):
have to cut certain things out and figure out where that is.
What, what's, where's that cut for you?
This day and age, I do a lot of my work.
From eight until two in the morning because my daughter's in bed.
And I really want to be, we sit down at the table, we eat dinner together,
we put our phones face down.
My husband and I both have wild jobs and we really try to do that.
We make some really conscious decisions to be a family because I don't want
(47:08):
to miss that. I don't want to regret that over a post.
You know, I can't remember what posts were so important to me a year ago,
but I do remember, you know, every day I've been with my daughter in some way.
So I've had to make choices in the morning. She She comes into bed with us still early in the morning.
I'm on my phone earlier than that. And second she comes in, I force myself to
(47:29):
put my phone face down wherever I'm at because I don't want that to be her memory of me.
I'm always on her phone. Hold on. Sit down. Which is so easy.
It was easy when she was a baby because she was in my arm and I was like this.
But it's different when she's the age that she is. So I've had to make some
sacrifices that I think are important.
And every day you're reassessing. Is this right? Is this the right move?
(47:53):
Am I pulling this off? I have a really strong support system and my parents live two blocks away.
And so there she's gets to be with them a lot when I need help.
She, no one's ever watched her besides my parents.
And I'm so thankful for that. I recognize that's rare, but they,
they, I could not do what I do without my parents and my husband too.
He's very hands-on, but he also has a full-time job. So he's gone in the day.
(48:18):
So that's a little bit about how I'm balancing. I don't think I'm doing it I'm doing it.
But am I doing it at the way that I would have envisioned or hoped?
No, it's always still chaotic. And maybe that's the honesty that needs to be said.
It's a lot of still like, wow, I just got through that day. Yeah, absolutely.
Things to do the next day that I just moved over on my to-do list for the next day.
(48:40):
Yes. And I talk a lot on this podcast, but also just to my clients and parents in general, all that.
That guilt is never going to go away.
We're always going to feel like we're just keeping our heads above water.
We're always going to be questioning, am I doing enough as a mom?
Am I doing enough as a business owner? Is it all coming together?
(49:04):
Am I making all the right decisions? And the truth of the matter is like what
you said, it's never going to look like what you envisioned it, but that's okay.
Right. You, you're doing the best you can. You're doing it out of,
the best interest of everyone involved. And I think too, you get to a point,
and I'm not sure if you do this, but I've been at a point in my career where
(49:28):
I can outsource certain things too.
I can delegate certain things and I can do a lot, but I can't do it all.
No, it is true. I'm somebody who I think has always been pretty independent
as a person. I had great parents who always supported me.
So it didn't come from that. Like, oh, I'm alone in the world.
(49:50):
Let me figure this out. But they did, I think, equip me to be pretty self-sufficient, which was good.
Even though we're very close. I call my mom five times a day.
We're still super close and I need them. But I think getting to that place where
you can say, yeah, I need help or I have to tap out for a second, that's very hard for me.
But I've had to do it.
(50:11):
You have to. And to do that without guilt because guilt does not serve you.
I think guilt can't. I think if we villainize guilt entirely,
that's dangerous, too, because it's a part of our conscience, right?
If I feel guilty, I have to look at that and go, is this because I probably
should be readjusting my priorities in this moment or redirecting my energy?
(50:31):
Or is this just unhealthy and not doing anything productive for me?
And guilt can go into categories at least, right?
And so it's not about tuning it out entirely, but about seeing,
is this going to help serve me in some way, help me be a better person?
Or is this just an energy drain that's in my, I'm in my head.
(50:52):
And so my mom always says that when I'd be like, I just, you know,
I've got these meetings. Can Joey come over? And she's She's like,
of course. And I'm like, I feel bad because I want to be with her today.
And of course, I'm with her every day. But I feel like anything that takes me
away from that, I feel badly about. And my mom says, don't feel guilty.
She's getting as much love as she can at our house right now.
And if you can take care of Mrs. and then be fully present when she's back,
(51:15):
that's a win for everybody.
And she has to remind me of that all the time.
And I need to accept that for what it is. And it's true. So it's...
It's never, it's never easy and it looks different every day,
but that's the reality I've come to accept.
I love it. I love it. And I think you're just setting a huge example for her
(51:38):
too, that, you know, look how, what a powerhouse my mom is.
I love that. Right. I mean, I never want her to resent my work.
That's the thing, you know, when you're like, mommy has to work,
that's a horrible It's a horrible phrase on some front. Sorry.
It's a horrible phrase on some front that I never want her to hear and be like,
trauma, childhood trauma.
(51:58):
But I had a very industrious mom. She was a stay at home mom,
but she always had side businesses.
So she was with us, but she was also working. And I think that I'm sure instilled
a really good work ethic in me of how to be creative, how to be industrious,
how to be a self-starter.
And so certainly there is good from that too. And it's really just about carving
out the right time and the right moments. Okay, okay, I need to be 100% present here.
(52:21):
And sometimes in order to do that, you have to not be present here,
get it done and then be present.
Absolutely. And a happy mom is an excellent mom.
So that's, it's all tied in. So I know you have to jump off soon.
So let's, what are some things coming up for you? You have new hair care that you're developing.
(52:42):
Yes. Some other collaborations. So tell us about that.
Thank you for asking. I am so grateful to be able to partner with the brands
that are natural fits for me.
That's always a very important part of my process.
There's certainly projects I say no to strictly because it's fiscally amazing,
financially amazing, but not on brand or just not a good fit for what I talk about or what I do.
(53:07):
So that's always a litmus test for me. So when I can partner with brands and
everything's on brand, it's incredible.
I've had some great long-term partnerships this year with Target,
with Sephora, with different individual brands.
I'm working with Zip, which is a device I love and use the Lima laser, another one.
I've really pared down my beauty devices to a couple. I have so many here.
(53:28):
But I talk about the ones I'm actually reaching for and making time for.
But I'm also working on some product collaborations with brands.
I have a lip color coming out with Limite de Bote.
We're still in formulation right now. It's a brand I've I've worked with before
in the past. We've come out with some bespoke formulas.
And also I'm working with a brand called Color Lab, which up to this point has been a...
(53:56):
More of a back-end business in terms of like private label for businesses and
creating amazing, unique custom colors for brands.
But I'm working on a palette with them, a face palette. I've never done a face palette.
And so this is going to be one of those palettes that you can use,
like anyone can use to create a full face in like five minutes,
(54:17):
which is what I, my dream palette, right?
Something that's got all the colors you need to just be really utilitarian about
it and And have it be in your bag and be something you go to all the time.
So we're working through that right now.
And then my hair care line has been something that has been in the works for a year.
I get a lot of hair care questions. And I'm passionate about taking care of
(54:41):
my hair. And I'm pretty minimalist about what I use.
But having so many options that arrive to my doorstep, I know what I wish existed
in a certain form that doesn't. And that's really where I went with this haircare line.
I'm coming to market with two products that are my dream formulas in these two
(55:02):
verticals that I don't have another product that would do that for me right now.
And so I'm really excited for that, but certainly it's self-funded.
So there's so much to navigate and learn.
I'm working with an amazing lab. I'm very hands-on with them.
And so these formulas are brand
new, bespoke. They're not coming off of an existing ingredients list.
(55:25):
And if all goes well, we'll be launching in Q4.
But I'm not in a rush. I'd rather take my time and get it just where,
like God's timing, not my timing. That's how I feel.
So I just want to get it right and have people love it as much as I do.
So it's called Academy Care. I'm spelling it the French way because I like the
(55:46):
French influence, but also it has that academia vibe for what I do,
but I didn't want to call it beauty professor because I.
I wanted some separation. So that is the story of what I'm doing with hair care.
It's minimalist. It's clean, under 20 ingredients on full products and completely
clean based on any of the standards in the beauty industry.
(56:08):
Amazing. Amazing. That's actually the reason I developed my own product line
because I had made a product line for a dermatology practice in 2002.
And I didn't think I wanted to do that again, but the same thing where I knew
what I wanted to recommend to my clients and it wasn't all out there.
And that's how I came up with FI. So that's great.
(56:30):
Now, where can people find you, Rachel, as far as your social media handles, your website?
Sure. So I have a website called Beauty Professor and it's beautyprofessor.com
and beautyprofessor.net. either one will take you to the same place. I have both domains.
So that's my main, has always been my baby that I've maintained all these years.
(56:55):
And that's how I broke into the beauty industry.
And then my Instagram handle is beauty professor.
My YouTube channel is just YouTube forward slash beauty professor.
I ended up trademarking the name 10 years ago. I went to the school of Google
on that one, did not hire an attorney, just figured out how to do it.
It was able to do that. And so I have all of the, all of the beauty professor
(57:18):
enterprises mine and thank you.
So that is where I can be found on TikTok.
I started, I went back to TikTok recently because I had some long-term projects
that wanted some presence there too.
So I have what I'd like to call a baby, a very baby
account there where I'm back and it's just at beauty
professor again so you can find me there help
(57:41):
me start that back up again but you know i'm on instagram
every single day also i have regular posts
every single day on ltk ltk the
app where i share content daily and it's usually exclusive content there that's
just on the app so a good following base there and that's a beauty professor
as well amazing i want to thank you so much because what a wealth of information
(58:06):
you provided the audience today, just in all aspects.
I know you're super busy. I so appreciate your time today. Thank you so much
for being a guest on the Hustle & Harmony podcast.
Thank you. I want to thank you for having me. I'm really glad we were able to
coordinate and I recognize you are just as busy with everything you're doing.
So it's a beautiful miracle that our schedules are able to finally align.
(58:30):
And I'm really happy I to be here today. Thank you for asking such great questions. Thank you, Rachel.
Everyone else, be sure to follow Hustle & Harmony wherever you listen to your
podcasts and follow me on Instagram at shaa underscore mom boss at embodiment spa and at five sk.
Music.
Music.
(00:24):
Balance in the Chaos. I am your host, Sharon McEntee, owner of Embody Med Spa and Phy Skincare.
I am so excited for today's episode.
I am joined by an ultimate mom boss.
This superwoman is a full-time college professor, a full-time beauty content
creator, and writer based in California.
(00:48):
Oh, and in her free time, she's developing her own hair care line,
plus making all sorts of Beauty Collaborations.
Welcome, Rachel Wendter.
Thank you so much for having me, Sharon. I'm really happy to be here today.
I'm looking forward to our conversation.
I am so excited. I'm just looking again at your resume and your websites, your social media.
(01:11):
We are definitely cut from the same cloth in the sense that we do like to pile
as much on our plates as possible.
And And I think we function really well that way. So I think this is going to be a great episode.
And I just want you to start by telling us a little bit about your background
and how you came to be where you are in your career with all aspects of that. All of it. Yes.
(01:38):
So I started off in education. I went to college and studied communication studies
and then stayed for grad school. And that's really where I first dabbled in
teaching was in grad school.
And I was given some classes to teach as a TA, which is really they just hand
you over a class of college students and say teach. And I got to grad school early.
(02:03):
Long story. But I was in grad school at a very young age.
So I ended up teaching students in college that were in many cases older than
I was, which was an interesting kind of way to start my career. But I loved teaching.
I didn't expect to have the feelings that I had for it. I'd planned on going
to law school, actually.
And when I started teaching at the college, I just found this new pathway for my life.
(02:29):
I'm not a capricious person. I couldn't stick to the plan.
But this was definitely on my heart to pursue this. So I ended up getting a
job right out of grad school at the college at Long Beach State where I went
and studied and taught in their communication studies department for years and
taught a variety of classes from public speaking to small group communication to linguistics,
(02:49):
all areas that I'm passionate about.
And at a certain point, I and I'm really expediting things here because it's
been a long and winding road.
But I I was hired at a high school down the street, a large urban high school
to run a speech and debate and journalism program, two separate programs that were in my field.
So I was splitting my time.
(03:10):
I'm going up and down a large fairway, thoroughfare, that's the word I want,
between the campuses and teaching all day at both places.
And I think that really sharpened my abilities in the classroom very inherently
because no one is tougher on you than a room of high school students.
(03:31):
I mean, you really have to get thick skin and have management for a diverse
population of different personalities and everyone's coming to the room with their own issues.
And so that was very, I think, that helped me to grow a lot as an educator.
And all while I was teaching college, which was relatively easy and super enjoyable,
(03:52):
very natural. So the combination was something that I think really honed my
craft as a professor, ultimately, down the line.
And then at a certain point, I went into the community college system.
So I was teaching a large state school, university, went to the community college system.
As somebody who worked her own way through college, I really respect that ethos
(04:13):
of just hustling, working, paying for things each semester.
And so I really identify with the students in that. I went straight to a state
school, but I identify with that community college experience.
I think it's a great place to get that first two years out of the way.
So I was hired at a local community college and down the line,
fast forward a few years, I started my beauty business called Beauty Professor.
(04:38):
I was on a winter break and had this excess creative energy.
I had written a public speaking textbook book with another professor.
And that had been a couple of year project.
We got a publishing team that of course should be pulled into all these deadlines
on. And when I was finished, I just had this excess desire, this desire to continue writing.
So I started writing about makeup, which was something I was always interested
(05:00):
in and fascinated by. I had been a model through college and grad school.
So I was on set a lot, asking makeup artists all sorts of questions.
I never could buy the makeup that they were using because all my money went
to paying for school. Cool.
But once I finally had disposable income, I started collecting kind of interesting,
luxury, hard to find products.
And in that space where I began my blog,
(05:22):
which is a totally outdated word now, but that's what they were at the time
back in 2012, I started writing about these products, not really knowing who
was out there on the other side of the screen, but I learned pretty early on.
I had a great audience of people who were interested in the things I was talking about.
And so that's where Beauty Professor was born, arm combination of my jobs.
(05:42):
And that's something I had. It's turned into a full-time multi-channel business
for me that really just started as a creative hobby side project endeavor.
And I'm so grateful. So I now currently teach full-time. I'm tenured at the college.
I'm department chair. I teach seven classes a semester.
And then I do be the professor full-time, which means, and I'm sure you can relate to this.
(06:06):
Not a lot of sleep, but something has to be compromised in the grand scheme
of things. So it's my sleep right now.
And I'm also the mom, and this is my chief job of a five and a half year old
named Joey. And she's amazing.
I love it. I love it. I love it. It's amazing.
I want to touch on a few things that you had mentioned, but one of the things
that I find very admirable is that you built your audience for Beauty Professor
(06:31):
authentically by being honest, by being credible.
And I think that that's amazing.
And then that's why it has continued to grow and launchy where you are.
And so what is your advice to other people who are either starting a social
media presence, creating a new business?
(06:51):
What's some advice that you could give them in that realm?
Absolutely. It is a tough, full disclosure.
I think I started at a great, an accidentally great time. The landscape,
digitally speaking, was very fertile.
There was less competition.
There were emerging apps. Instagram was pretty new at that point.
(07:15):
TikTok wasn't even a thing. It was something else at that point in time.
But it was an accidentally great time to start.
And I recognize it's a lot harder this day and age should just start fresh.
Not impossible, but definitely more challenging because there's a lot of voices out there.
And I would say my one approach all along through it all, watching trends come
(07:39):
and go different, you know, you're in the grace of certain brands and then you're
out for a while because you're clipped by other voices and then you might come back.
The whole focus for me is threefold. One, it's consistency.
So maintain, just keep on creating things you feel good about,
even when you don't want to, even when you're tired, even when something doesn't
(08:02):
do as well as you hope, which a lot of times is not due to the content,
but due to your reach that day or the algorithm, it truly all those factors
are significant and really out of our hands.
So it's just about maintaining consistency with really good content you would want to watch.
Also, trust in your audience will find you. So riffing off of that point,
(08:22):
if you're creating things that you you would like to watch, that you would speak
to you, trust that your people will find you because it's going to speak to them too.
And I think when we try to be everything to everyone, we end up not having the
success we hope for because you can't be. I mean, that's just not a realistic endeavor.
(08:42):
So trying to really focus on your specialty, that honest voice,
and maintaining that consistently is really important. And then the third thing I would say is.
Don't take shortcuts. And that may or may not be the best advice for people
these days, but it's the best advice for me. So I'll be real about that.
I've never bought a follower, never bought a like, never been in a comment pod,
(09:04):
never paid for engagement, never boosted my own posts.
This is stuff that is expected this day and age, especially.
It certainly wasn't when I started. In fact, if you had heard of somebody buying
followers, it was like, oh my gosh, what are they doing?
But now it's the norm for so many creators and businesses because the algorithms
are not friendly to really anything.
(09:25):
So if you want to get views, there's that urge to enhance things in that way.
And for me, I'm not about that.
It's a hard road. It really is because it's kind of demoralizing sometimes when.
The numbers don't look like what they should and you see other people's numbers
and you know that those numbers aren't real either, but they're doing something
(09:48):
else to make that happen. in.
But at the end of the day, you just stand by your content. For me, I stand by my content.
I know my followers are real, which really inspires me when I'm creating content to think about them.
It's very freeing, I guess, if your followers are not real because who cares,
right? You just create what you create.
But there's a serious onus there. But I would say my conversion rate.
Response rate, engagement rate is very strong because my followers are real.
(10:12):
And that's what matters to me at the end of the day, adding value to their experience.
I love that. And I do, I agree with you 100%. One of the hardest things that
I found when I first started getting an online or social media preference,
excuse me, and I'll be honest with you that I didn't pay much attention to it
for my business until COVID.
Until the lockdown, when I was forced to, right, I had to get in front of my
(10:35):
clients so they didn't forget that I was there and they knew that I was coming back.
And, you know, my business was shut down for 14 weeks and that forced me to
get in front of that camera, get over my discomfort.
And I hear public speaking, but for whatever reason, when the video turned on,
it was a whole different thing. Right. Right.
And it is for people. Yeah, absolutely. And then one of the hard things was
(11:00):
when my marketing team would start deleting not real followers,
and I'd see my numbers go down.
I now know that that's fine because I'm in front of the people who want to see
my business, who my content is made for.
But when you're looking at it from just a numbers perspective,
(11:21):
it can be extremely frustrating.
Damn, I've never bought followers. And again, my bots all get deleted.
And, you know, so it is all very organic build and it takes forever.
Right. I've been doing this since 2012. I think I hit 100,000 followers early
(11:42):
this year, late last year.
And that's, you know, everyone's path is different. Someone can go viral,
they have real followers.
I'm not saying that there isn't a lot of success out there or that the people
who have extremely large accounts are all buying them.
I'm not saying that, but I will say there's a lot of padding going on.
But that being said, everyone's path is different.
(12:02):
And for me, I'm really happy with where I'm at and just going to trust the process.
But yeah, it does take a lot of time.
I think if you're looking for quick results, you know, brands feel that pressure
to just kind of jumpstart things.
But in the end, is that going to give you real customers, which would be the goal, I would assume.
I mean, that would be the objective. And no, optically, it looks like something's
(12:27):
happening, but it's kind of hollow, you know, if you took a closer look.
Absolutely. I actually just read this morning, one of social media content person I follow.
So So she helps to coach people in social media. She posted something this morning
that I thought was very profound, where she said, if your goal is just to go
(12:47):
viral, you're missing the point.
Yes, that's a great way to build your followers. But for example,
if you own an ice cream shop.
And you go viral for a video of your puppy.
Right. Who cares? Because the people you're getting in front of aren't your
ice cream shop customers. They're people who like puppies.
(13:09):
It's just so true. I mean, I've had certain videos go viral where they have and they have it.
Ninety nine percent of my content is always beauty or skincare focus.
Right. Or some fusion of that with communication.
But once in a while, there'll be something that's a little bit different.
And if it gets a ton of views, it's great. great, you are getting a lot of followers,
but they don't know you. They don't know your content.
(13:31):
They don't have any context for what kind of value you've tried to add to the space all this time.
And so, you know, on one front, you get in front of eyes and followers that you didn't have before.
That's great. But on another, you're right. If they are not otherwise aligned
with the kind of content that you create, there is a disconnect there.
And eventually that becomes obvious. Yes, absolutely.
(13:54):
So you teach in communication studies.
How important? I know you've done some posts that I love about public speaking.
I am a huge advocate for teaching kids at a very young age to get comfortable public speaking.
Two of my kids are theater kids, and I think that that helps to build confidence. I love that.
(14:17):
So it's how important if we were to tie this together, how important is the
ability to communicate with starting a business or just being successful in
business, even if it's not your own?
Yes. One thing I lead with in my classes is that the majority of employers,
unless it's a really specialized business, niche business.
(14:40):
The majority of employers have prioritized communication skills at the top of
the list for what they're looking for when it comes to a potential employee.
And that's something that I lead with in my classes, whether it's public speaking
or organizational comm, like business communication, public relations.
I want my students to understand the exigence of giving yourself that edge to
(15:04):
communicate well in a world where that has been deprioritized on some fronts very intentionally.
And on others accidentally we think
about the last four years of covid and what that did to everybody's
ability to communicate it it
changed everything and not for the better so i mean the level of anxiety the
(15:25):
level of apprehension that people have that was always natural for some has
exponentially increased when people were essentially out of practice for four
years So getting back into that is essential.
And I feel like communication skills, feeling comfortable, expressing yourself,
being able to read the room, which is a part of it as well, having that rhetorical sensitivity.
(15:49):
All of these ideas that I teach in my classes give my students an edge when
it comes to being a potential employee or if they're already employed,
knowing how to navigate the nuances of their jobs.
Also, in business, I think the most successful business, the entrepreneurs,
(16:10):
the business owners, those working for business, the most successful people
are able to communicate competently, right?
It's not that everyone has to be this stellar TED Talk type of person,
but to be able to express yourself cogently, clearly, with respect,
with rhetorical sensitivity,
these are things that I think help you to thrive in your respective area.
(16:33):
So being able to prioritize that in the classroom as I get to is such a blessing.
I love, I'm very passionate about getting to do that. And I think we need so
much more of that in an age where you truly have people in a,
you know, 18 to 25-year-old age range who don't even want to pick up the phone
because of the apprehension that it presents them.
(16:53):
So trying to work through that's an uphill battle, but it's an important one.
Absolutely. And I find that people have lost...
Not everyone, obviously, I'm making a very generalized statement here.
People have lost the ability to even interview effectively.
I find that speaking on the phone to potential candidates, having them sit across
(17:17):
from me, it's so different than what it was 10 years ago.
Yes. And I think that I don't know if schools are failing them or are we failing them. I don't know.
And I do think that even if you have the ability to just come in and speak confidently,
(17:37):
you are going to have a leg up on everybody. but really, truly to be able to speak.
And there's a few things that kind of indicators that I really focus on or qualities
that I focus on with my students, things like being able to speak with good eye contact.
That's important. There are so many people who just want to avoid eye contact at all costs.
And I argue it is one of our most powerful elements as a human being to be able
(18:00):
to look somebody back in the eyes.
Zoom is always wild because I have to be right here in the camera and then I
can't see you, right? It's mentally confusing.
We haven't perfected that yet, But in general, face-to-face,
that eye contact is essential. Being able to speak without verbal fillers, which is it?
A challenge. Certainly something I worked through for years to get to a place
(18:20):
where they weren't posing an issue for me, but it's something anyone can do
with enough time and focus and determination.
But these are small changes that cost nothing. You don't need a special coach or a workshop.
I mean, that could be nice, but you don't actually need that.
You just need a lot of self-determination and self-reflection to accomplish
these things, and they will be infinitely beneficial in the the workplace, in a job interview.
(18:46):
I cover job interviews extensively in my classes.
Even yesterday, we were doing a mock interview process for one of my class,
one of my 200 level classes.
And the students get asked one of five very commonly asked interview questions
and need to answer it on the spot.
And I give them a grade based on how I think they did.
And that's daunting, but incredibly important because it's shocking how many
(19:10):
students will just go into an interview you without having really thought about it at all.
And how valuable you are providing such valuable information to them.
That's amazing. That's amazing.
I feel like they should be doing that even in middle school,
starting in middle school.
Absolutely. I was homeschooled until high school.
(19:31):
And so my experience, even with speech was very different because you have a
lot of leeway in homeschool to cover multiple subjects, subjects that extend
far beyond what you might get in a typical school day.
So we did a lot with rhetoric and public speaking. And that was something that
my parents prioritized for me.
And so I obviously had a bit of an advantage on that front with lots of early years practice.
(19:56):
But I agree with you. It's not something we're prioritizing for children.
And that's where you can really get comfortable.
It's like we're missing those formative years. And so finally,
some students don't get their first experience with public speaking until they're
18, 19, 20 or beyond in their first public speaking class.
And to me, that's egregious when you think about the fact that we are expected
(20:17):
to express ourselves daily.
Love that. And how forward-thinking of your parents. That's amazing. Great.
So let's talk a little bit about any advice, suggestions that you think would
help people who are trying to launch a new business or gain a social media presence.
(20:38):
Going back to some of the things I mentioned before, this idea of consistency,
I think it's just, let me back up a little further.
I think we as humans, when we're creating, it's very natural to want to wait
until everything is just so.
Just I've got all the right this or all the right that or the equipment or you're
(21:00):
waiting for some kind of sign to finally get going.
And my argument will all, based on my own experiences, will always be just do
it. Just do what you can in the moment.
Don't wait for everything to be right? Because in my opinion,
it rarely, if ever, will be.
It's kind of the same with having kids. I do think you should think about it.
Obviously, prepare as much as you can, but you'll never feel totally ready.
(21:23):
I mean, we prepared as much. And then when it was happening,
we're like, oh my gosh, are we ready for this?
You figure it out, right? So as a mom, you get this completely three times over, right?
Exactly. And you're never financially ready either, which again,
Again, it relates to business.
Yeah. You figure it out, right? It always works itself out with enough time and determination.
(21:43):
But with starting a business, with starting in social media,
I think don't put these prerequisite expectations about what you need in order to do it.
I, for one, started my site back in 2012 when, of course, it was a different landscape.
Without a good camera, I took pictures with my cell phone.
And when I look back at these posts, which I still have left on my site strictly
(22:05):
because I like to see the growth.
It's nostalgic, right? Sometimes people will take away their first five years
of blogging because it just looks atrocious compared to what they do now.
I like it. I'm like, look how far I've come. I was shooting everything with my iPhone.
No good light, bad angles. I knew nothing. And I was just writing.
I knew how to write. That was certainly something I would have been...
(22:28):
Prepared for, but everything else was just doing what I could do.
And then of course, as you go, you, you learn how to refine.
Okay. Eventually I got a great camera and eventually I learned how to use it, which is another thing.
I eventually got, got, got lights and figured out, you know, a schedule for things.
And, but in the early days I was just going to the stores.
(22:51):
I was watching things on my arm. I was shooting and, and those posts are to
this day, some of my most successful because they were helping people.
I think if your goal is to be a resource, to add value in some way,
and you hold on to that and you just start going with what you have,
that's a winning combination.
If you are trying to do it for your own, I guess, just to self-aggrandize or
(23:15):
to get clout or free product or rise in fame...
That motivation is also going to influence your freedom to just get started,
right? Because you are overthinking it to some extent with this strong intention.
So for me, just having no intentions, starting with really very basic skills
and growing, that to me is something I will always encourage people to do now.
(23:39):
I do think somebody starting now already has a leg up on where I was.
We have better apps for editing. We have lights. You buy for 20 bucks on Amazon.
There's so many resources that make it easier.
So really, we have no excuse for not starting. Just start. Don't wait for something
to be perfect. It never will be.
(23:59):
Agreed. Agreed. I love that you keep your old posts so that people could see
the evolution of your business, your growth.
One of the biggest myths that I told myself when I was starting my business
was that other people knew more than I did when they started their business.
(24:21):
Other people knew what they were doing from day one. And what you learned is no.
It's a learning process. Correct. But one of my favorite quotes is success leaves clues.
So you just seek out the people, the professionals, those that you admire those
(24:41):
that are killing it and you learn from them.
I love that quote. Yeah, I love it.
Success leaves clues and you
seek out help where you need it and you can't be afraid to ask for help.
No. And you learn as you go. Right, right.
And there's so much, I mean, people would come to, have come to me for years and just been like,
(25:04):
well, it's funny, even students who come to office hours for,
with me over Over the years, once they figured out what I did,
and I was pretty compartmentalized about what I did in beauty versus what I
did in academia because...
I don't think my colleagues really understood what I was doing.
I mean, it was an emerging field at the beginning. And I think it was more like,
oh, you write about lipstick. You're great. How cute.
(25:28):
Right. How cute. Right. I've been published in academic journals.
I've written textbooks.
And here I'm doing this thing that seems very kind of light in comparison.
Though clearly it's a whole multifaceted business that has allowed me to give
so many great opportunities to my students over the years because of my connections
and ability to, you know,
my placement in the business but i have had students come in and be like i would
(25:51):
love to do what you do and i'm like you want to be a professor like no i want
to be a beauty influencer.
Right and then their next question is what do i how do i start what do i do
i don't really know what i want to write about and like that is that is right
there that is the caveat that's the flaw you need to have a passion just something
(26:13):
you care about and i can't tell you what that is.
I can ask you some clarifying questions and maybe help you to get there,
but I can't say, hey, write about this. It'll be successful.
No, because if it's not inherently natural to you to want to share in that way,
it's that lack of natural interest is going to impact your content, your authenticity.
(26:34):
So it's really about just having a passion for whatever it is and just start talking about it.
Just get out there and start talking about it and you'll figure out the rest as you go.
And one thing with social media, too, is that we often look at successful businesses, entrepreneurs,
(26:58):
influencers, and all we're seeing is the tail end.
We're not seeing the struggle that got them to where they are.
And so I think that there's often
this misconception that you can have an account
or a business on day one and it's going
to be uber successful right right and that's so far from the case and it's even
(27:23):
harder now I mean reach on Instagram was effortless at the beginning my affiliate
earnings when I started monetizing were effortless when the landscape was so much
smaller and commissions were so much larger for retailers because everyone,
it was an, once again, it was an emerging business.
And as that, all of those, those elements become saturated, all of your earning
(27:47):
potential shrinks a little bit.
And the comp, cause the competition is vast and the commissions are lower because the.
And that's just one dimension, but like that, that, so you just maintain,
right. And the earlier days were easier on some fronts.
Obviously my business is more robust at this point.
And you know, my, my, my rates for projects and all of that,
(28:08):
but, but it's all still uphill.
Even if it was, even if I've gotten to a different place, a more advanced place
in my career now, it's still, you're in some ways you're all,
I hate to say that I don't believe this, but I do feel like this is something to bear in mind.
You're only as good as your last post or your last campaign or your last whatever
on some front in the eyes of some. I think our value is more inherent than that.
(28:31):
And that mindset can be throttling for us. If something doesn't go well,
we're like, oh, it's over.
No, I mean, you go on to the next thing. But it's very ephemeral, right?
I mean, you can have a whole list of things you've done and then like,
okay, but how did this do?
So I think the fortitude of just continuing to to move forward,
to continue and to refine and improve really essential and not get caught up
(28:54):
in all of the ups and downs because there will be.
There are days you feel like nobody sees your work and full transparency,
like, why wasn't I invited to that?
And other days you're like, there's seven things I'm invited to.
I can only make it to two. And wow, this posted amazing.
That's just the ups and downs of life. And I think we have to bear in mind it
will always be like that.
(29:15):
And that's true with brick and mortar businesses as well, that if you look at
your revenue from day to day, it could be a little more daunting than if you
take a step back and look at your quarterly revenue, right?
Right. Because it does, it all kind of shakes out and there's this ebb and flow
and you learn these things as you grow in your business and you begin Begin
(29:40):
to not panic as much when you see, oh my gosh,
here's one day where the revenue was in the tank and now this day it's huge.
So I love that. And that's an excellent segue into….
Some of your creative approaches to product launches or influencer relations, collaborations.
(30:01):
Let's talk about that, where you are, how you got there and what advice you
can give others who are looking for that.
Sure. I find that I have, you know, I've done a lot of consulting on the business
front through via communication.
So lots of corporate consulting over the years. And then And my consulting in
the beauty business has been more informal.
(30:24):
Let's put it this way. I probably should be charging for the advice I give to
the people in the relationships I've built over the years where all of us have
grown together in a decade, right?
People that were started at this point in a business are now VP of sales or whatever.
And so there's that fine line between friendship and honest conversation and
helping each other out because that's what you do and consulting.
(30:46):
But I'll just say some of the things I know well, having been in this influencer
space that wasn't even called influencer when I started,
that has to do with the idea of how you work with a brand and understanding
your worth in that process.
I think it's important to have some set rates.
It's always confusing because just like in every business sector,
(31:11):
people don't talk about their salaries, right?
That's kind of put down upon and it's kind of taboo to talk to your coworkers
about what everyone's getting paid. I always tell my classes,
that's an interesting situation to analysts.
Why is that? Who's benefiting from that? Certainly not the workers, right?
Because if everyone talked and were more transparent, there'd be more power in the ask.
(31:33):
But in influencer space, it's been the wild west, everything's evolved,
everything's still evolving.
And I feel like I have one very close friend who does exactly what I do.
We've grown up together in this business and we're very candid with each other about rates.
If there's one person you can trust to have a conversation, we've been able
to help each other as we try to match rates for the brands we work with and have some context.
(31:58):
Otherwise, you have nothing. You don't know where to start.
And obviously, your numbers, your reach, your engagement, there's a lot of elements
that should influence what you're asking for.
But one thing that I always remind influencers of is when you're agreeing to
money for a project, always separate out usage and have that be another amount because...
(32:18):
As an influencer, we are doing, we're essentially making commercials, right?
Content, especially if it's video, you're making a commercial,
you're creating a beautiful ad in some way.
And that's taking the place of a creative director, an ad agency,
hiring a model or an actor, wardrobe stylist, makeup artist,
(32:42):
hairstylist, set location.
I mean, so, I mean, that's 10 things, right? Almost 10 things right there.
And there's probably more I'm missing that the photographer or the videographer,
like we're doing all of that as one person.
And you learn that as you go. And that doesn't mean you need to charge the $30,000
that that would cost, but it does mean don't undersell yourself because you
(33:03):
are creating for a brand and giving them all of that from one person.
And then on the other side, how is it being used, right?
I did tons of national commercials commercials in college. And that was how
I paid for school. I'm grateful.
But you get your pay for doing the commercial and then you get paid for when
the commercial runs because that's the other side. That's really where the money is.
(33:25):
Usage is something I think a lot of newer influencers forget about.
I mean, if you give over your content in perpetuity, that's a misstep.
I mean, there needs to be, there need to be set terms, 30 days,
60 days, you can use it this way. Here's what it will cost.
If there's a white listing or paid ads, that's more.
It's not about being greedy, but it's about understanding that those things
(33:48):
are separate pieces of the pie rather than an all-inclusive thing,
unless someone's offering you an insane amount of money and it just works that way.
So that's something I educate influencers on in conversation and also brands,
because I think it's important for them to understand if you were to piece all
this stuff out, what that would look like.
And that's something I've only learned from personal experience.
(34:10):
I've made made the misstep of agreeing to stuff and regretting it later.
And I've also since then, you know, adjusted accordingly.
This is such an interesting perspective from a business owner's point of view
who's worked with influencers.
And I love hearing your perspective on it.
I, as a business owner, one of my first collaborations, I made the mistake of not having a contract.
(34:37):
Okay, great. Just so excited. This person, and she's not a true influencer,
to be perfectly honest with you. That's not her job or her career.
But I wanted to get in front of her audience. It was, I thought, a great collaboration.
And we were offering free services for her honest opinion.
(34:58):
And I didn't get a contract. And she didn't post.
And she also was making some disparaging comments, not about my business,
but about services in general that are offered by us.
So, for example, we had her do CoolSculpting, and in her post about CoolSculpting,
(35:23):
she was talking about how she would never get Botox and she would never refer
anyone to get Botox, which is fine to have that opinion,
but you can't say that when you're promoting a business that offers that service. It's important.
Right. So we learned very quickly, okay, we have to spell out all these terms
(35:43):
in the contract and all of it and how many times they need to post and et cetera,
et cetera. So I love that.
And then do you, so from a business person's perspective, for somebody who,
for example, is launching a product, regardless of what that product is,
where do you think they should start?
(36:04):
I mean, I wouldn't necessarily go to someone like you who is top-tier influencer.
They're going to start with somebody a little bit newer, I would say, audience.
How would you recommend that they approach that person or try to get a collaboration with that person?
Sure. I think a business needs to be clear on what they want.
(36:28):
What kind of ROI are they looking for? Are they looking for...
Brand recognition, brand exposure, someone to help with customer acquisition.
Are they looking for actual conversions where a set of people are actually buying the product?
Are they looking for just posturing this product in the context of other great products?
(36:51):
And that's a whole other space, right? Where it's not just a dedicated post,
but something like, here's how I integrate this along with all these other things
that are already established in
a routine. I always think that's a really interesting angle for a brand.
Let people see it in the context of other established brands.
Some brands, and I'm off on a tangent here, but some brands will be like,
no, I just want you talking about my brand.
(37:12):
And I tell them like, okay, if it's on brand for me and it feels right, sure.
But I'm very hesitant usually with stuff like that because it's hard to be on
brand unless you've already been talking about them a ton organically.
And otherwise, Otherwise, I think you get more reach when you have something
in the context of other things, because people might have come to you for this
(37:34):
thing, but now they learn about this thing, right?
And they see how everything works in a routine.
For most of us, we're not just using one brand of anything in life.
So I think there's actual very significant value in combining things,
even if only one of the brands is paying for that inclusion.
Conclusion so something to think about there but i i
(37:55):
feel like product seeding is always a great way to
start and really you want to look to see when
you're picking people to send to who is actually talking about product organically
right for me i with skincare especially i will share to my followers hey this
this skincare just came in and i probably truly talk about seven to ten 10%
(38:18):
of what's actually in my house or what comes my way.
I've been doing this so long. Stuff shows up unsolicited every day.
It's insane, actually. But...
If I'm sharing something in skincare and it's brand new, I'm going to say it like this.
Here's this new eye cream or this new lip product or this new serum.
I'm going to give it a try. I'm looking forward to it. Here are the things that
(38:39):
it claims to do. Have you guys heard of this brand? What do you think?
Want to put it on your radar?
I love to, you know, with brands I like, I love to share that way.
But I'm not going to say, here's this thing. It's amazing.
I love it. I'm obsessed because I haven't used it. Right.
And that's from an authenticity standpoint. point, I would recommend staying
away from influencers who are obsessed about every thing every day because they
(39:01):
couldn't possibly have tried it.
And they just think that their conversions, if you took a look,
are probably not great because of what I've just said. I don't need to say anymore.
So it's about seeding to people that talk about things organically.
If it's for getting your product out there for brand recognition, that's a goal.
(39:21):
If it's about trying to convert and sell things. You want to look at people
that you think are doing that already that you would buy from and use that as a baseline.
And just be really clear and aligned. What I will never do personally is work with a brand.
Well, this day and age, work with a brand on dedicated content where my payment
(39:44):
is just commissions, but I'm creating dedicated content for them.
A lot of brands will come to and want that and I get it. It's great for the
brand, but now I'm a salesperson and that's not really what I do.
I might make sales, my business matters, but I'm not there to convince anyone to buy something.
I'm there to share things I like, to give reasons, to give insight.
And if other people find that compelling, they're going to respond.
(40:06):
So I don't like to set up my work about, okay, I'm going to create this thing.
And now I have to somehow make up for that on the back end with sales.
But that's what a lot of brands will do. I usually say like,
don't go down that path for a brand, for an influencer. I think there are better
ways of achieving mutually beneficial goals.
Do you think that there is a platform right now that's better for brand new
(40:32):
businesses to get launched?
Not to put you on the spot or to downplay any other platform,
but in your opinion, what do you think?
I think that I've seen an evolution. I think it was Instagram initially.
We really saw a lot of business traction there. I think Instagram has
(40:54):
drastically messed with the algorithm with an intention of inspiring people
to pay for reach and boosting the reach of their already existing followers,
which is problematic and troubling to me.
And yet that's the situation. So
we watched the switch from Instagram to TikTok talk
(41:15):
in 2020 right and tiktok was the new kid on
the block and it was still relatively
pure and so people could grow audiences really
quickly i would say the same things i've just said about instagram i'm hearing
about tiktok now so it's four years later i don't know that it's really any
better on that front i think everyone's complained about tiktok's reach and
(41:38):
and because Because you've included a commerce component like TikTok shopping.
So is that any better?
I don't, probably not at this point. YouTube, I still think has a lot of potential,
has not been messed with from an algorithm standpoint as profoundly as the other
two apps I've mentioned.
And I would say there's consensus in the beauty community about that.
(42:00):
So that's always a great way to just kind of start, especially with long form content.
So they have shorts as well. But for me, I'm hearing people actually shifting
back to Instagram after recent experiences with TikTok. And also….
TikTok has been a little bit more of the Wild West, which is good.
I mean, bad and good, I would say, right? As somebody who values just multiple
(42:22):
perspectives on things.
But I think the comments are also equally unpredictable and unhinged.
And people want to be in a space where they don't feel weird over time.
And I think sometimes you really feel that in TikTok.
So I don't know if I gave you a
really linear answer there, but that's my analysis of everything going on.
(42:43):
I'd still say always secure an Instagram
for your business and contemplate YouTube. That's my short answer.
I think what you just gave was an amazing answer.
So I appreciate you. I do appreciate the honesty and the reasoning behind it.
I feel too that I love and hate social media.
Social media has definitely been able to increase my revenue for my business,
(43:10):
giving me brand awareness.
Do I hate that I am kind of, you know, locked into this algorithm and having to play the game yet.
But I mean, I guess that, you know, you're, you're in it, right.
You're in it and you don't have too much say over it, at least from where I stand.
I'm not a powerful player on the social media.
(43:30):
You truly don't. You just don't. I have calls with Meta as a creator.
They'll invite you to have a call, talk about strategy.
I've had multiple conversations. And they will say the same thing.
We don't really know why it works the way that it works.
I mean, when you're at that level and having those kinds of conversations and
that's the takeaway, it's just kind of like, okay, I guess I'll just keep doing
(43:51):
what I'm doing and hope for the best because I'm not getting anything substantive here.
Right, right. Exactly. Exactly.
So I know I don't want to occupy too much of your time.
One of the other things I wanted to talk about, and again, if there's anything
that you feel I've missed, but my podcast is Finding Balance in the Chaos.
(44:14):
And so as somebody who is balancing these three major areas of your life,
motherhood, being a professor, and being this amazing beauty expert influencer,
how are you balancing it?
And what is your advice to people who are thinking, I don't know if I can handle it all.
(44:34):
I love that question. And I get that question a lot from people who might see
my life through the lens of social media. You know, I share some time on campus.
I share, obviously, my beauty content, talk about home life a little bit,
though I do keep a lot of boundaries up there strictly because...
That's just been my path all along to have a little healthy separation.
(44:59):
But I would say I like the word chaos as you've included it, right?
I think that's an important word because it does feel chaotic a lot of the time.
And I feel like I am flying by the seat of my pants most of the time with the
intention of not feeling that way for the next week. I'm like,
(45:20):
next week it'll be calm, right?
There's this, okay, I got through it. I was flying by the seat of my pants,
barely got everything done the way I needed to.
Next week, I think I can try this with a little more grace, but I've been saying
that for years. So I don't know if next week ever comes.
I think there is always going to be a sacrifice when you're doing multiple things.
(45:40):
And I think it's really about being aware of what that sacrifice is going to be.
For me, I love what I get to do professionally, but I never wanted to sacrifice
my relationship with our daughter for that.
I was on TikTok at the beginning of its heyday at the fertile times.
And I was also home with my daughter
(46:00):
who was two and a half at the one and two-ish, almost two at that time.
And I decided I don't want to miss this time now maintaining my site, YouTube and Instagram,
all of which I had active, you know, partnerships and business on for another app.
(46:20):
And I deleted it within a few months. It was growing and I just got off.
And that was kind of a drastic move. And probably, you know,
I would be in a different space on TikTok if I hadn't done that.
But I don't regret it because that was time that I was able to really focus.
I did not want to regret that time of not being with my daughter in that way.
The other stuff I had figured out, and it's still crazy, but I think you always
(46:44):
have to cut certain things out and figure out where that is.
What, what's, where's that cut for you?
This day and age, I do a lot of my work.
From eight until two in the morning because my daughter's in bed.
And I really want to be, we sit down at the table, we eat dinner together,
we put our phones face down.
My husband and I both have wild jobs and we really try to do that.
We make some really conscious decisions to be a family because I don't want
(47:08):
to miss that. I don't want to regret that over a post.
You know, I can't remember what posts were so important to me a year ago,
but I do remember, you know, every day I've been with my daughter in some way.
So I've had to make choices in the morning. She She comes into bed with us still early in the morning.
I'm on my phone earlier than that. And second she comes in, I force myself to
(47:29):
put my phone face down wherever I'm at because I don't want that to be her memory of me.
I'm always on her phone. Hold on. Sit down. Which is so easy.
It was easy when she was a baby because she was in my arm and I was like this.
But it's different when she's the age that she is. So I've had to make some
sacrifices that I think are important.
And every day you're reassessing. Is this right? Is this the right move?
(47:53):
Am I pulling this off? I have a really strong support system and my parents live two blocks away.
And so there she's gets to be with them a lot when I need help.
She, no one's ever watched her besides my parents.
And I'm so thankful for that. I recognize that's rare, but they,
they, I could not do what I do without my parents and my husband too.
He's very hands-on, but he also has a full-time job. So he's gone in the day.
(48:18):
So that's a little bit about how I'm balancing. I don't think I'm doing it I'm doing it.
But am I doing it at the way that I would have envisioned or hoped?
No, it's always still chaotic. And maybe that's the honesty that needs to be said.
It's a lot of still like, wow, I just got through that day. Yeah, absolutely.
Things to do the next day that I just moved over on my to-do list for the next day.
(48:40):
Yes. And I talk a lot on this podcast, but also just to my clients and parents in general, all that.
That guilt is never going to go away.
We're always going to feel like we're just keeping our heads above water.
We're always going to be questioning, am I doing enough as a mom?
Am I doing enough as a business owner? Is it all coming together?
(49:04):
Am I making all the right decisions? And the truth of the matter is like what
you said, it's never going to look like what you envisioned it, but that's okay.
Right. You, you're doing the best you can. You're doing it out of,
the best interest of everyone involved. And I think too, you get to a point,
and I'm not sure if you do this, but I've been at a point in my career where
(49:28):
I can outsource certain things too.
I can delegate certain things and I can do a lot, but I can't do it all.
No, it is true. I'm somebody who I think has always been pretty independent
as a person. I had great parents who always supported me.
So it didn't come from that. Like, oh, I'm alone in the world.
(49:50):
Let me figure this out. But they did, I think, equip me to be pretty self-sufficient, which was good.
Even though we're very close. I call my mom five times a day.
We're still super close and I need them. But I think getting to that place where
you can say, yeah, I need help or I have to tap out for a second, that's very hard for me.
But I've had to do it.
(50:11):
You have to. And to do that without guilt because guilt does not serve you.
I think guilt can't. I think if we villainize guilt entirely,
that's dangerous, too, because it's a part of our conscience, right?
If I feel guilty, I have to look at that and go, is this because I probably
should be readjusting my priorities in this moment or redirecting my energy?
(50:31):
Or is this just unhealthy and not doing anything productive for me?
And guilt can go into categories at least, right?
And so it's not about tuning it out entirely, but about seeing,
is this going to help serve me in some way, help me be a better person?
Or is this just an energy drain that's in my, I'm in my head.
(50:52):
And so my mom always says that when I'd be like, I just, you know,
I've got these meetings. Can Joey come over? And she's She's like,
of course. And I'm like, I feel bad because I want to be with her today.
And of course, I'm with her every day. But I feel like anything that takes me
away from that, I feel badly about. And my mom says, don't feel guilty.
She's getting as much love as she can at our house right now.
And if you can take care of Mrs. and then be fully present when she's back,
(51:15):
that's a win for everybody.
And she has to remind me of that all the time.
And I need to accept that for what it is. And it's true. So it's...
It's never, it's never easy and it looks different every day,
but that's the reality I've come to accept.
I love it. I love it. And I think you're just setting a huge example for her
(51:38):
too, that, you know, look how, what a powerhouse my mom is.
I love that. Right. I mean, I never want her to resent my work.
That's the thing, you know, when you're like, mommy has to work,
that's a horrible It's a horrible phrase on some front. Sorry.
It's a horrible phrase on some front that I never want her to hear and be like,
trauma, childhood trauma.
(51:58):
But I had a very industrious mom. She was a stay at home mom,
but she always had side businesses.
So she was with us, but she was also working. And I think that I'm sure instilled
a really good work ethic in me of how to be creative, how to be industrious,
how to be a self-starter.
And so certainly there is good from that too. And it's really just about carving
out the right time and the right moments. Okay, okay, I need to be 100% present here.
(52:21):
And sometimes in order to do that, you have to not be present here,
get it done and then be present.
Absolutely. And a happy mom is an excellent mom.
So that's, it's all tied in. So I know you have to jump off soon.
So let's, what are some things coming up for you? You have new hair care that you're developing.
(52:42):
Yes. Some other collaborations. So tell us about that.
Thank you for asking. I am so grateful to be able to partner with the brands
that are natural fits for me.
That's always a very important part of my process.
There's certainly projects I say no to strictly because it's fiscally amazing,
financially amazing, but not on brand or just not a good fit for what I talk about or what I do.
(53:07):
So that's always a litmus test for me. So when I can partner with brands and
everything's on brand, it's incredible.
I've had some great long-term partnerships this year with Target,
with Sephora, with different individual brands.
I'm working with Zip, which is a device I love and use the Lima laser, another one.
I've really pared down my beauty devices to a couple. I have so many here.
(53:28):
But I talk about the ones I'm actually reaching for and making time for.
But I'm also working on some product collaborations with brands.
I have a lip color coming out with Limite de Bote.
We're still in formulation right now. It's a brand I've I've worked with before
in the past. We've come out with some bespoke formulas.
And also I'm working with a brand called Color Lab, which up to this point has been a...
(53:56):
More of a back-end business in terms of like private label for businesses and
creating amazing, unique custom colors for brands.
But I'm working on a palette with them, a face palette. I've never done a face palette.
And so this is going to be one of those palettes that you can use,
like anyone can use to create a full face in like five minutes,
(54:17):
which is what I, my dream palette, right?
Something that's got all the colors you need to just be really utilitarian about
it and And have it be in your bag and be something you go to all the time.
So we're working through that right now.
And then my hair care line has been something that has been in the works for a year.
I get a lot of hair care questions. And I'm passionate about taking care of
(54:41):
my hair. And I'm pretty minimalist about what I use.
But having so many options that arrive to my doorstep, I know what I wish existed
in a certain form that doesn't. And that's really where I went with this haircare line.
I'm coming to market with two products that are my dream formulas in these two
(55:02):
verticals that I don't have another product that would do that for me right now.
And so I'm really excited for that, but certainly it's self-funded.
So there's so much to navigate and learn.
I'm working with an amazing lab. I'm very hands-on with them.
And so these formulas are brand
new, bespoke. They're not coming off of an existing ingredients list.
(55:25):
And if all goes well, we'll be launching in Q4.
But I'm not in a rush. I'd rather take my time and get it just where,
like God's timing, not my timing. That's how I feel.
So I just want to get it right and have people love it as much as I do.
So it's called Academy Care. I'm spelling it the French way because I like the
(55:46):
French influence, but also it has that academia vibe for what I do,
but I didn't want to call it beauty professor because I.
I wanted some separation. So that is the story of what I'm doing with hair care.
It's minimalist. It's clean, under 20 ingredients on full products and completely
clean based on any of the standards in the beauty industry.
(56:08):
Amazing. Amazing. That's actually the reason I developed my own product line
because I had made a product line for a dermatology practice in 2002.
And I didn't think I wanted to do that again, but the same thing where I knew
what I wanted to recommend to my clients and it wasn't all out there.
And that's how I came up with FI. So that's great.
(56:30):
Now, where can people find you, Rachel, as far as your social media handles, your website?
Sure. So I have a website called Beauty Professor and it's beautyprofessor.com
and beautyprofessor.net. either one will take you to the same place. I have both domains.
So that's my main, has always been my baby that I've maintained all these years.
(56:55):
And that's how I broke into the beauty industry.
And then my Instagram handle is beauty professor.
My YouTube channel is just YouTube forward slash beauty professor.
I ended up trademarking the name 10 years ago. I went to the school of Google
on that one, did not hire an attorney, just figured out how to do it.
It was able to do that. And so I have all of the, all of the beauty professor
(57:18):
enterprises mine and thank you.
So that is where I can be found on TikTok.
I started, I went back to TikTok recently because I had some long-term projects
that wanted some presence there too.
So I have what I'd like to call a baby, a very baby
account there where I'm back and it's just at beauty
professor again so you can find me there help
(57:41):
me start that back up again but you know i'm on instagram
every single day also i have regular posts
every single day on ltk ltk the
app where i share content daily and it's usually exclusive content there that's
just on the app so a good following base there and that's a beauty professor
as well amazing i want to thank you so much because what a wealth of information
(58:06):
you provided the audience today, just in all aspects.
I know you're super busy. I so appreciate your time today. Thank you so much
for being a guest on the Hustle & Harmony podcast.
Thank you. I want to thank you for having me. I'm really glad we were able to
coordinate and I recognize you are just as busy with everything you're doing.
So it's a beautiful miracle that our schedules are able to finally align.
(58:30):
And I'm really happy I to be here today. Thank you for asking such great questions. Thank you, Rachel.
Everyone else, be sure to follow Hustle & Harmony wherever you listen to your
podcasts and follow me on Instagram at shaa underscore mom boss at embodiment spa and at five sk.
Music.
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