Disappointment is Not Fatal

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You done goofed.
we do cows. But cows don't make sweaters.
Oh, but there's one timeI broke my own leg.
What was that? What did you say?
Just you might you might have opinions.
Nap. Professor.
What are they? dying like no fucker.
You're killing it. right?
I don't know why it didn't matter when itwas about your uterus or your rights, but

(00:21):
Hey, y'all.
Welcome to this episode of hustlewith hearties.
I'm Courtney, a theater maker,
soloist, knitter, nonprofit strategist,and certified TV nerd.
I'm here with my co-creatorand real life sibling.
What's good everybody?
I'm Tyrone, motion designer,3D artist, animator,
self-proclaimed King of the nerds and cardcarrying films. Dad.
And yes, I'm the younger sibling,which means I bring the innovation

(00:44):
and the petit.
podcast is our creative living room,a space for deep
convos, pop culture mess,entrepreneurial chaos, and sibling joy.
Whether you're a maker, a dreamer, burnt out artist, or just nosy.
This show is for you.
Let's build something dopeSo pull up, subscribe, take your cousin
and let's get into hustling with artists.

(01:04):
Big deal. Courtney, what's.What's going on?
How are you doing?
Well, I am doing. Yep.
You know, I feel like,you know, for the last little bit,
it's been, bits of ups and downs.
I am continuing to bein a transitional space,
and that is just where we are.
I love that.

(01:26):
I love that so much.
And justthe idea of, like, you're just continuing
to be in a transitional spacefeels like it's very,
you're very open for the wave of change
coming from the universe, you know,I mean, things change.
That is like the only constant, right?
Like where.

(01:47):
And I'm not where I was,and I'm not where I'm going, but I am here
right now,and that is what it's going to be.
So I am just trying to sit in that,trying to see what I can do
to it, to wherever the next step is,trying to just.
And what can I do?
What can I build from where I'm at andwhat can I be building for the next phase?

(02:09):
But yeah, it just does.
It feels very continually transitional.
Yeah, I feel that.
Yeah.
How are you feeling, bro?
Bro, I'm feeling very good
in this transitional period.
I feel like a lot ofirons are in the fire.
I feel like some of thesefire irons are fire irons.

(02:33):
I feel
like some of these ironsare getting forged into something.
So we're just in the processof forging now.
Very good, very excited.
But, also also in this, like,
transitional period of like, okay, let'slet's not what's next, but like.
How can I put it more like what's in store

(02:55):
like that feels likejust saying the same thing twice.
But like now I understandwhere there's this feeling of like
there's kind of two types of uncertaintyor I'm sure there's more.
But in what we're talking about is like,there's what's next in that?
I have no idea what where it's likea big blank slate
where you have no idea what's coming.
And there's also the uncertainty of,I think I know what's next.

(03:19):
Or it's like there have some plansor some things
that are actually coming to fruition,
and I have no ideahow they're going to play out.
That's exactly what it is.
That's exactly what it's like.
There's the blank slate of like,I don't know what, I don't know.
What's that? Yeah.
Then there is yes.
The uncertainty of I actually know what'snext, or at least what's on the horizon.

(03:40):
Like I see somethingand I don't know what the specifics are.
I don't know how it's going to play.I don't know how it's going to impact me.
Yeah. Yeah.
So you know the difference,I guess, between a blank slate and,
like, standing in frontof a door that's about to
Yes. Like this.
There's stuff over thereI know that, I know there's stuff,
there's stuff over it
but I don't, I don't know what that stuffis going to be or do for me.

(04:02):
And. Yeah.
And I feel like you know,we're both figuring some things out,
but I definitely feel like I'mprobably more blank slate space.
Yeah. In my not knowing.
And you're more sittingin front of a closed, soon
to be unlocked Yes,I like how it's unlocked in that open.
I like how yeah I yeah need to open it.
Yeah I think that's where it feels.

(04:24):
We just gotta,we just gotta just gotta see this.
Make it through.
Hey, this is going to help. Keep going.
So they say that's what they say.
Somebody want to, like, offer mean air conditioner
some ice water while I'm going through?
I still keep going, but, like, give me.
This is a lemon water for you, right?
Give me, like, frozen.Just like, clear a little path.
That's all I need.I just need a little pad.

(04:46):
Just give me a little bit of ice.
I don't need the whole thing to be frozen.
I just need.
Can you give me some type of coolingfootsteps?
Give me a lame That's all I need.
Oh, today is going to be, a good episode.
This is also one of our deeper episodes.
I feel like it's going to turn into who?
Who knows?

(05:06):
You know,
I feel like we get hereand we start talking,
and then next thing you know, it's like,oh, well,
that's a storyI didn't think I was going to share today.
All right, we get it.
We just out here,this is going out in the world for real.
For real.
But yeah, but today we're we'retalking about, disappointment.
What do you do when you've, you know,you've hustled as hard as you can.

(05:27):
You've gotten the stories, you've
you've done the waiting,you've done the training, you've done all,
you know, all the things you talked about.
And then it just don't work.
Don't work out. It just ain't got it.
It just don't curl the wayall the way over.
You just it just doesn't happen.
And what do you do when it doesn't happen?
And how do you keep going?

(05:47):
And like,what does it feel and how do we like.
And I don'tI don't know. We can talk about it.
But I don't know if artists talk aboutlike disappointment for real a lot.
I think I feel disappointment a lot.
I think a lot of creative folkslike Name it,
but I think a lot of the wayspeople responded to disappointment
is to act like they don't want things,or to act like things aren't a big deal.

(06:11):
And so I'm excited to kind of bein this conversation around disappointment
and what we do through it andwhat we do with it and how we sit in it.
Yeah, I think it's going to be good.
It's going to be good. Yeah.I'm excited. It's going to be a nice.
But first, always tell us, tell us, folks,get in the comments.
Tell us how you feel.
Tell us you know, tell us what wayswe've disappointed you.
We are going to listen,but it's nice to share.

(06:32):
We got to listen.
I don't care.
No, I
go back to episode on discernmentand it will be like,
you're not going to feel that way,but we do want you to share.
Give us that engagement.
Let us know.
Yeah, let us know what you let us know.
But also you'reprobably gonna be disappointed again.

(06:53):
Specifically by us.
All right.
You and your father both are specifically.
And those to say that in any way.
Not an ounce a day.
So show up.
That shows up late every time. Every time.
And I love it. Wait. No.
I'm here, I'm here, I'm here,I'm there, you're here you are.
You almost missed it. I'm here.

(07:14):
And I, I love it because it is.
It is a very specific quirk.
The two of you make an edit it.
doesn't happen on specific,but no, it's specifically.
Specifically.
I don't know why.
It's the it's that extra.
It's that little bit on the endthat right.
It makes the edits just disappear.

(07:36):
Just thinkoh so is this distracted by the end?
Right I love it.
It's a it's a great work I promise.
I promiseyou I'm not asking you to change it.
I just noticed that they,you and your father, that that leading us
on specificallydoes not know you don't want to be there.
It don't ever show up for work.
Don't ever.
It just wantit just wants to be left alone.

(07:56):
Right?
Like I don't want to be here.I don't want to do this.
No, it's like the L in the Y at the end.
They got they got they got it. Pick it up.
You know what the.
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying.
Okay.
So they got, I got I had them covered.
My shift is fine.
Oh, ridiculous. But first. Yes.
You know what time it is, man?
It's it's sibling shout out. Timesaving says something.

(08:18):
Shout out.
Shout out!
Dance. You.
Yes. Who is your savingshout out this week?
I struggled, I was like,who? What are the siblings?
I want to shout out this week,but I settled on who?

(08:41):
Some amazing brothers, actually.
Step brothers.
But ain't no difference.
It's Phineas and Ferb. Yeah! Yes!
Yeah it is. Yes! Phineas and Ferb.
Some of my favorite animated siblingswhose I love.
You want to talk about siblingswho are there for each other.
I love siblings who are in it to win it.
Like every day and every day.

(09:04):
They're like, what are we going to do?
And they like, you know, we going to doWhatever it is, we going to build it,
we're going to make it,we're going to go for it.
We just ain't gonna do it.
We're going out there stressing out.
Your sister is the thingthat you wake up to do.
You're like,how can we stress Candace out today?
Right? Hey.
Right. And Candacewho Candace rest versus.

(09:24):
And her nervous system is strongbecause she stays stressed
and still has timeto, like, do all of her things.
Like I her heart beat.
She probably has, like the vascular systemof a marathon runner
because she be workingher whole life is cardio
and like I believe inher and has still has the ability

(09:46):
to, you know, create relationshipsboth platonic and romantic.
Oh yeah.
Her you know, Jeremy fanciesher dreams, right?
No, she's a real thing.
I gonna say, youknow, Candace is a real one, so you can't.
It's also included in this sibling thing.
But the Flynn Fletchers, as it were.
But, yeah.
No, Phineas and Ferb is great.

(10:07):
I loved it's a it's such a fun show.
And I love thembecause they just feel like a
you want I've got possibilities here.
Like one of them is likethis is what I want to do.
And the other was like,this is how we're going to use this.
And so we'reand they and that's it is not.
Well, no I don't think so.
It's not theit's like they are a duo and I love that.

(10:28):
I love that type of support connection.
Their ability to just bebe there for each other and make it work.
No man.
Shout out to shout out to the FinnFletchers.
Okay. Yes, it's good old Flynn.
Good old Fletcher'sall right, Phineas and Ferb, that's it.
Who are you shouting out?
My shout outare the crap brothers from PBS

(10:52):
Wild Krattsand my generation's Zim Booba fu,
which, as a personwho's creating a TV show,
I don't understand how they got that showpassed.
Just title is insane to Boomerwho is like everybody.
Everybody adds or removesletters from Sabine waifu and nobody.
I don't think any two people say itthe same way, same way,

(11:13):
which shows youthe credit of the television show.
Okay?
It shows you that even,but with this terrible name,
that is the lead character of our show,
we still manage to bring bring animal
knowledge and conservationism to the children of America.

(11:35):
So I love the wild Grant.
They one of the people that made mewant to be a zoologist.
It's like him themSteve Irwin and and Jeff Corwin.
And I really enjoyedlike, I, I really wanted to be a zoologist
because of them.
So it's always I enjoy the Wildcats.
I enjoy the Crab Brothers.
Thank you, PBS,for inviting them into my home.
Let's thank you, PBS, for for everything.

(11:57):
All the things for everythingpro PBS over here.
I also want a name that like you all,you know, we mentioned previously
that Taryn is a Disney princess,
and one of the things that gowith his Disney princesses
is, is his deep animal knowledgeand deep love for animals and animals.
Love him.
They just dogsjust walk up to him like friend.

(12:18):
And it's wild the way it happens.
And so yes, Ontario said he wanted to bea zoologist animation and all the things
animal facts all over.
Yeah.
So I believe in that. Yes. Amazing.
Good times.
Well,we are in episode ten, so that means it is
day ten of our dynamic duo of DynamicDuos countdown.

(12:39):
So it has been ten days,ten episodes of waiting for one
or the other of our favorite, creativesiblings to appear on the podcast.
The those creative siblings are,
Phylicia Rashad and DebbieAllen and Jaden and Willow Smith.
So that's a long way.

(12:59):
Both.
Either y'all can come on together,we will make the space.
We will make the space,we will make the space.
We will give you the time
you would hear about what does it meanto be creative siblings in shared space,
working together with careersthat have both connected and diverged.
So yeah, this is dayten of our dynamic duo of Dynamic duos.

(13:21):
Countdown. Double digits court. We did it.
We made it to double digits.
We did it.
We are in the in the back40 of our first season.
So look fist making it work over here.
Making it work over here.Good job. Excited job.
With that we're going to transitioninto the main moment

(13:41):
Now is the time for the main moment.
The part of the showwhere we dig a little deeper.
Whether it's creativity, culture,chaos or care.
This is where we pull the threadand see what unravels.
like that. I want to put on mymy deep editorial voice.
That's your. Yes. That's our moment.
As always, shout out to Brooklyn

(14:02):
as always.
The true horns.
We have an opinion.Horns are like, you know what?
Sometimes I want to be like, honkif you think we should have $1 million.
But that great, true, unofficial thirdhost of person
we're hard is is in fact Brooklyn,New York, Brooklyn, New York.
to make noise.
Oh, we're happy to be here.

(14:23):
100%. Wouldn't be any other place.All right.
So in our main moment, for three secondsjust to give it a little bit of
give outside,a little bit of a chance to settle.
It feels likeit's also in a transition moment.
Okay, so for our main moment today,
like I said,we are talking about disappointment.
How did we work through it?
How do we work with it?

(14:44):
How do we, recover?
And yeah, what do you do?
Because it is, for me a phrasethat that is the title of this episode.
But it's a phrase I say a lot, really isthat disappointment is not fatal.
And I say thatbecause I think so many times people do
actually really dangerous thingsto avoid disappointment.

(15:06):
They don't want to disappoint others,they don't want to disappoint themselves.
They don't want it.
And so they'llthey'll not have like hard conversations
or they won't,you know, make the the phone call
that they don't want to deal withor they don't want to like,
they know there's bad newsor hard news in this place.
And so they avoid things
that actually thing and do thingsthat actually sometimes can become fatal.

(15:28):
Trying to avoid disappointment.
And so I say disappointment. It's if.
Right, like not having hard conversations.
There's just much stuffthat people do to avoid disappointment.
And so for me, the phrase disappointmentis not fatal is a reminder that,
even if this feels hard and challengingand and even devastating,

(15:49):
to have something not happenthe way I wanted to
or the way I needed it like thatfeeling isn't going to kill me.
And I would much ratherI'm not judging what anybody else does.
I'm not saying you got to go out thereand do nothing.
You're going to come for mein the comments.
Just know that I'm not talking about you.
I'm Kagami in that the disappointment
is I'd much rather chase disappointment,

(16:12):
trying to like risk and get to my dreamsand get to get to better
then kind of stay stagnantand never risk being disappointment.
And also don't risk any getting anythinggreat.
100% agree.
100 I recognize like disappointment.
Disappointment is the cost with the taxfor reaching for
more than you got to pay the ferrymanand you get it.

(16:35):
That's what it is.
You want to get across this cool.
And the cover is disappointmentand yeah right.
Yeah. That is that you gotand you got to risk it.
And disappointment is not the constantstate of being.
Disappointment is a possibility.
Yeah.
Frankly, if you're not risking somethingI'm not talking about being reckless.
But if you're not risking something thenyou're not actually stretching yourself.

(16:57):
Like there's got to be a chancethat it doesn't work out.
Yeah,because then you're just playing it safe
and like something I have, I havea whole lot of things that I say, often.
But another one of the things I say around
that, though, is that, like,if you're going to want to say if
like you're not actually riskingsomething, then what are you even doing?

(17:17):
Because you can fail you can fail
or have shit not work outeven if you're not trying and like that.
That to me is worse than disappointment,
where it's like,I didn't even risk anything.
I didn't even get anythingI wanted, and stuff still blew up.
Oh absolutely not. I needed to blow up.
Trying to get somewhere.
Yeah, Even with the remakes on the six.

(17:40):
Oh, wait, with it.
Because okay.
I wasn't ready for that.
Just siren. All right.
But yeah, I don't the idea of losingwhat I didn't even play.
That's the thing that makes me mad.
Losing when I tried somethingor I stepped out.
Right. Did more.
I, you know, I, I reached for something.

(18:01):
Hertz.
I'm not saying it doesn't, but I am sayingthat, like, I can settle, I can live
with that disappointmentas opposed to being disappointed.
I didn't even risk.
I didn't do nothing.
I didn't even do nothing and stuff didn'tyou know, I there's this great quote from
Seth Rogan talking about like, failingand like pursuing your dreams and stuff.
And he's like, if you if you try,

(18:23):
you might he's like, you might fail,you might succeed.
And he was like, oh, you might make it.
And he was like,if you don't try, you definitely won't.
Real life.
And he's like,that's pretty much how I, how I live.
It is like, I'm just going to go for it.
And if it works, it works.
If it doesn't work,at least I went for it.
And like that feels better.

(18:45):
The idea of that feels better to me thanlike all the disappointment in the world.
Like, I'd much rather have gone for itand be disappointed.
Then, like you said, be disappointed
and still be chilling and like,not do anything and not go for it.
So I, there's a going around from,you know, somebody who I quote a lot,

(19:06):
who I know, Francesca Ramsay, and yes,
she's on a podcastand I think it's with Disney.
I believe it's Selenamateen. Different.
I apologize if I said her name wrong,
but makeup artist,I they're colleagues and collaborators.
But the quote is, Francescatalking about how,
like, successare the things you want to do
are really on the other side of cringe,right?

(19:27):
Like, you have to push through somethingthat may feel cringe or may feel like,
again, risk where it feels like, you know,I don't know if this is going to work.
I don't know how it's going to be.
You have to kind of push through that fearit needing
to, like, not have a cringe momentand just do the thing, make.
Yeah.
And like, I feel that it sounds like one
really sound adviceand it also just shows that like that.

(19:50):
I find that I don't think as many peopleare willing to sit in the cringe
where it's like there's a momentwhere like, this doesn't feel great.
I don't know if this works.
I don't know how it is.
And so as opposedto pushing through that to say,
but I'm going to try this anyway,I'm gonna risk it being kind of corny.
Yeah. What you're looking for.
Then, there's like, nope,I'm gonna play it safe and sound.
This, I say on this side of cringe,like I'm not going to even experience

(20:13):
the the possible,the possibility that it could not work.
Yeah.
No, I am also kind of stuck in that cringe
corny era where I'm like, yeah,but that feels lame.
And I don't want to do thatwhen it really could, like
just take you to the next level, like it,whatever that next level looks like.

(20:35):
If it's like, you know, recording videosor if it's like, you know,
asking somebody for advice or sending
that email that like, you know,you don't want to look thirsty.
Type of like, you know, like,no man, just go ahead, do that.
Like do that. Right.Take no for an answer.
Be receptive.
But yeah, some of itis. And I would receive that advice.

(20:55):
Sometimes it's just likejust do the do the cringe thing.
Do the thing that
that risks you being a vulnerable personlooking like you may need something.
Yeah, it's okay to need something. Never.
Oh it it's it's true leads to you.
Okay, I do remember I would it's.
Ridiculous.
So with that,we're going to jump into our questions

(21:15):
and talk about disappointmentand what it is.
I think I'm going to go with So, Tyrone,do you think disappointment hits harder
when it comes from people,from institutions or from yourself?
From yourself?
Four star.
200. Alex.
Like, yeah, I think
I think disappointing yourself

(21:37):
may be one of the worst thingsthe human mind can do to itself.
Like, so like giving,
having a goal that you set and then.
Deliberately sabotaging it because, like,
you can set a goal and not reach itin that and and be disappointed.
But that's a, that's disappointment

(21:59):
in the outcome situation universewhat have you.
deliberately sabotaging your goal.
Out of fear or cringe or whatever,and disappointing yourself,
having to sit with that disappointmentwith yourself that nobody else knew
that you had, like thatinternal disappointment.
It's heavy.
It's it's exhausting.

(22:21):
It's so it's takes so much longerto get away from like,
that sits with you much longerthan getting a no from it.
And so at least for me,
getting a no from an institution orlike people you also love and care about,
like if somebody disappointed you,like you would be disappointed.
Again, disappointment isn't fatal.
You would be disappointed,but you would get over that eventually.

(22:44):
But disappointing yourself is like a
because you're kind of always remindedI want to admit something,
and I don't want it to sound judgmentbecause it's not.
But it's like I, I'm not a self-sabotage.
Yeah. And it's a thing that I don't.
Want, I want toAnd it is a space very different.
So I, I really appreciate yousharing how that feels.
But this is also one of those thingsthat like I.

(23:05):
I can't relate to.
And I am naming that one and just you know
and the vulnerability of like I appreciatethe vulnerability of what you shared.
And also seeing thatlike I just just not a thing that you do.
It's never it'snot a thing that I do. Yeah.
But and naming that I understand itbut it is it's a, it's
a, it's a thingthat I've always like struggled with.

(23:26):
I've stopped things right.
I've definitely been like, you know what?
I thought I wanted this,and I don't want this thing.
Yeah. But now I know.
Yeah, I don't,
and it could just be that I forgotten,but I as a as a thing like, I know.
Is it, like, the closerI get to a to the thing I want.
And I think this is partially like,frankly, I think it's an entitlement.

(23:46):
I don't know if it's a positive.
Yeah. Yeah.
Where it's like, oh, if I'm, if I'm goingto get it, then we're going to get out.
I'm, I'm right. I'm good at it.
After I'm holding it, then we'llfigure out if I actually want it or not.
But if it if I see it.
And all I have to do in some ways is like,stay still.
Know the self self-sabotaging for me.
So everybody to get just deepis the lack of self validation

(24:10):
I have for myself and have had for myselffor quite some time.
Like I'm getting,I'm getting a lot better,
but for the longest time that I felt likeI didn't deserve good things in my life.
And so when something good would happen,my brain would like that
you don't really need like, the same.
This is not for you.
And so we would begin the,
you know, setting the legacy for my entirearound everything and just wait

(24:34):
and, through therapy that's very helpfulthat, you know, gets a lot of that,
shot of therapy.
Now that therapy is the axleunofficial start to see.
What's wrong with pardon?
Is that therapy? Yes.
And so I've gotten better at it,and I've gotten.
You know, it still pops up.
Not a lot, but it pops up frequentlywhere something good will be happening.

(24:55):
And I have to like, kind of like, okay,we got to go here.
We got to fight this thingbecause I really want this.
And then other.
But my other side is like wantand deserve a two separate the.
That's why those are different words.
And so I gotta fight him.
He got on my nervesand I just be tired see.
And I'm in there.
you know,this is one of the things that I like that

(25:17):
we are in more closerwe are in closer proximity to each other
because I'm definitely like,I don't care if deserve.
Do I have it,you know, am I is it did it come to me?
Yeah.
But I take it from somebody else like,no, I didn't write right, like I don't,
I tried, I have I can be very clearabout how I operate in the world.
I don't try to take anything from anybody,but I definitely am this.

(25:40):
I shouldn't say this. I been I'm going,guess whatever.
But in some ways it might be a little bitof the colonizer colonizer mindset.
If I'm holding it is not right now.
I didn't take somebody right.
I didn't take it from somebody,I didn't whatever.
And so like if I get into a room, I don'tI don't ask myself the question, do

(26:01):
I deserve to be here because I'm like,if I got in, I'm here now.
So now I'm here now you got diluted hereand fucked up, and then you let me do.
Yeah.
You done goofed.
Yeah. You let me in here and I'm not.
I'm not sayingI don't have imposter syndrome.
And again
I want to hear I want to hear your story,but I'm also offering just like I.

(26:25):
Yeah. This is the contrast. What I needed.
This is.
Yeah, the contrast of this.
Like once I'm in it right.
Oh no. Good.
You done goofed.
Now you're done, you're done.
You just let me in there.
You don't.If I don't, then I'm going to. Right.
Then I'm going to be present.
Right?
And I'm going to be here and participate

(26:46):
because there's a reason I'm herethat's very funny.
Like, very funny in the way that is like,it's only the journey that is it for me.
But as soon as I'm there, I'm like, yeah,they were supposed to be here anyway,
let me like you, like, disappears.
He was like,think I told you was supposed to be here.
And I'm like, no, no, you did it.

(27:07):
And no, you need to come back here.
No, you didn't
hold youaccountable, but you walk away from me.
I will hold you accountable.
All right. I see you later. Now.
Oh, Now you're gone.
And I'm filledwith all this joy and happiness.
But you made me.
This was frustrating.Why didn't you do this?
Why did you do it?

(27:28):
I mean, I'm always working, and.
Yeah, I definitely.
But I definitely feel like, well,if I have the opportunity to participate
and whatever the thing is,
I'm gonna do it, then I'm going to show upand give it what I have.
I do not question whether or not
I should be there or not, and.
Yeah, I know, and I, you know,sometimes I don't

(27:48):
necessarily know where that came from.
I don't know if I say where it came from,your mama.
Okay.
Fair, fair fair enough. Okay.
But yeah, it's just but yeah,I just say it is like, no way I got here.
So now I'm going to do the thing.
Now I'm going to show you, I'mgoing to show you.
Even if you didn't think I should be here,guess why I am here, right?
No, but I am.

(28:08):
So that's notthat's not it that you can feel about.
You can feel about me and me being.
You can feel all of that. That's.
And that's the thing that you should workthrough with your therapist.
But I am here and I'm going to participate
fully in the things that I'm hereto participate in.
So yeah, I want toI, I jumped in really just to name

(28:30):
like the contrast in our experiencesand why I also, again, I'm glad I think
I think there are ways that usbeing in closer proximity than we were for
like the earlier parts of our adultlives, has allowed.
Me to rub off on you in that way around.
Like, hey, now we havewe now we have you're you've got it.
So what you can do with There'sthis as opposed to being like,

(28:52):
I don't even know if I should have it.Don't it?
At that point,didn't matter. You got two hands on it,
right.
Oh take back sees no take backs.
That's right I got it.
Not that that reminds me of this.
This quote from this football playerwho I forget
what his name is, but they have a podcastthat's called The Pivot today. Fun.
But he talks about how when people ask himto go speak somewhere

(29:16):
that he does not say, he does not feelthe need to say thank you in a way
where he's like in the way of like,I'm gracious to be here.
I, you know, I'm filled with gratitude.Thank you for doing this.
He goes, I feel those things.
He is like, but you ask me to be here.
You're welcome.
Like you're welcome.
I'm here because of the skill and the the,you know, mean you are in the same room.

(29:39):
And you asked me to be here.
You're welcome.
And I was like,you know, I really like that.
I kind of dig that.
No, it's a that's so real.
It's, Yeah.
So and so like to answer my,
my version of this question where, like,do you think disappointment hits harder
when it comes from people,from institutions or for yourself?
And I don't I was strugglingto answer this question because partially
it's it's like I don't it actually dependson the individual disappointment.

(30:02):
Partially because like, peopleare disappointed in me all the time.
And I say that partially because.
I would here's my side.
I'm hesitatingbecause the things I'm about to say about,
I feel I,I have insecurity about the things
I'm about to say, partiallybecause it sounds like I'm gonna be like,
this is why I'm so awesomeand people don't appreciate it.

(30:24):
I both believe that, and also knowthat it can come off in a particular way.
But whatever we we're family.
We're here forwhat am I going to talk about?
And the way that. Who knows,maybe I'll get emotional.
We'll see what the story in that. Like.
I've always been smart.
We've talked about this.
We've named it.
And I'm saying that again,not as a it's not a brag.
It's just that is a condition like thatas a thing that people use to describe me

(30:47):
and have done for a while.
I've also like, because I'm personable,like there are ways in which people think
that my smart or whatever
is a commodity that they are responsibleRight. Wow.
And they're
they're just been a few different timesin my life where somebody is like, well,
I did this for you, and I want to be like,I appreciate the assist.

(31:09):
But like, there are some very specificpeople who made me and that ain't
you person I met in college and that ageyou employ, you know, like this.
I showed up this way,forged by a very strong community.
Great parents. Great.
But like, there are peoplewho can take responsibility for the things
that they want to take responsibility for.

(31:30):
And those are not the peoplewho want to claim responsibility for me.
In the same way.
And so I've had disappointments like men.
I've dated them to like, well,this is who you should have been.
That's not who I told you I was.
And that's like,so my baby is you, right?
This is what I don't understandwhy you didn't x y z

(31:53):
I didn't offer x, y, z.
And so that disappointment is youryou manufactured that.
You know,I once had this grad school professor
kind of crash out on metalking in in messaging.
He was so mad cause I posted something.
This was many years ago.

(32:13):
I posted something on Facebook basicallysaying that white people are cowards.
And it was a it was an articlethat was the name of the article
that I reposted.
And I was like in the sense of and,you know, 2025 is telling us a lot of that
where it's like the gist of the articlewas a lot of white people
really are not willingto make anybody around them uncomfortable.

(32:36):
They're not willingto, like, have an awkward conversation
and have kind of awkwardinterpersonal reactions or interpersonal
connections in the face of thingsthat are actually violent.
they would much rather keep the peacesocially than like address
racism, injustice, genocide,all of the things.
So post that articleand this professor who.

(33:00):
Had my own feelings about thisprofessor was like, how dare you?
I always thought you were so smart.And how can you say the thing?
I was like,I am smart and I don't need you.
I don't know what I understand.
You can be mad about it,but what is the problem?
It's like what?
These are all the ways that, you know,I showed you respect and.
And I want to be like you.
Respecting mehas nothing to do with, like, compliance.

(33:22):
Like, what does that mean?
It's like,well, I'm just disappointed in you.
There are some of us who out herewho are trying to do the things.
And I was like, well,if you're only trying to do the things to
do like things that are positive,
you're only trying to work inlike social justice or anti-racism
because I know you think gives youbrownie points.
Then like, I don't. Yeah. Again,I don't understand.
I don't understand why you're mad at mefor a bunch of decisions you made about me

(33:44):
that have nothing to do with, withoutreally any conversation at all with that.
Right.
And it just all the things.
And I was like,you know, talking about like,
you know, theseI just respected the things
like basically saying that like his being,his honoring the work I did,
the things I turnedin, the things I was supposed to do
as part of the classwas somehow a favor to me.

(34:05):
And I'm like, but no, I did.
I did good work.
So you responded to that appropriately.
Like, that's where you're supposed to doand like I that's not a favor.
Maybe I maybe it's weird.
I was like, I that's so weird.
But I'm like,see you be turning in good assignments
and you grading them well is thatthose are the terms of the relationship.

(34:30):
That's not okay, friend.
And so, so long story around, like,
a lot of times like disappointmentfrom other people is less about something
I actually didor didn't do and more about the thing that
they projected onto me is like somethingI was supposed to be accountable to.

(34:50):
I it does hurt me.
It is really hard if I disappointsomebody in a way that I committed
where it's like we were goingto do this thing together and I fucked up.
That is hard.I don't like doing that right.
And so, like, I,I hate being somebody who breaks promises.
I really, I really try not to.
I'm not perfect.
It is also the way it is easy for me

(35:14):
to say, no, I'm not going to do that.
It's much easier for me to say,I can't keep that promise,
so I'm not going to make itbecause I don't like, disappoint.
I don't like not keeping my promises.
I don't like not honoring my commitments.
And so, again,I'm more likely in the beginning to say,
I don't think I can do that.

(35:34):
Or if I did do that,this is what I would need or can be it.
Just like a lot of I'm big in negotiatingin the front, in the front, in.
No, that's probably as okay.
No, that's just that's really great.
Just like the
the ability to be like, no, I because Idon't want to disappoint anybody.
I understand the boundarythat I have to put right.
Which is as
you know, we have we talked aboutbrownies are for us, not for other people.

(35:57):
So like, right.
So yeah.
So I think I've gotten this, you know,I think this is age
is probably the answer.
The question is like disappointingother people does hit me hard,
which is why I actually have built
a lot of my systemsand practices around avoiding it.
And but not avoiding accountability,avoiding disappoint.
It's like, nope, I don't that's too much.I don't have the resources.
I can't do it.
So I will I will throw no at you earlyand then often

(36:19):
because I want to keep our relationship,because I don't want to disappoint
And andinstitutions again, that also depends.
I don't it depends on whatthat institution is asking of me.
What do I want?
Like currentpresident of the United States
as an institution,I could disappoint him all day, every day.
I hope he doesn't even.
He mean a lot of the people I don't know.

(36:39):
I don't careabout disappointing them at all.
I do not careabout disappointing institutions.
I don't respect.
And so, yeah,and disappointment in myself is.
Rare.
You know, it's to go back to theself-sabotaging I think past because,
you know, if I've gotten goodat negotiating with other people.
Yeah, I've gotten real greatnegotiating with me.
And like,we can't do that or we can't or we not.

(37:01):
And I still face disappointments,but I really try to be like,
did I do what I said I was going to DidI give that the effort?
I knew I could give it if I didand it didn't work out to me.
Like those are kind of separatethings. Yes.
Did I do the effort?
Great. Okay.That's where I'm disappointed.
That'swhy I'm, you know, like, did I give it to.

(37:23):
They give what I wanted to give.
And then whether or not it worked out iskind of up to me Yeah, that makes sense.
It makes total sense.
And then I, you know, I don'tI try to like, just contextualize, like,
I can be sad that something didn'twork out.
And like thatsadness, kind of work through.
But like, disappointment Is harderfor me to access because again, it
for me, disappointment is almost alwaysdid I do what I said I was going to do?

(37:44):
If I did, then okay.
It just didn't work And I can deal withthat, that I can mourn that, but I yeah.
So working through disappointment is verymuch did I communicate my expectations?
Did I not tell, did I not do something.
And then like yeah,when I get disappointed if I see like, oh,
I didn't show up the way I wanted toor I didn't offer that thing or I didn't,
or I just forgot and something happenedand I didn't keep this promise

(38:05):
I hate that feeling.
Which is why I try to do a lotmake sure that doesn't happen.
Yeah.
We learned so much about you today,we just.
And we're just getting started.Just getting started.
What role does humor or pettiness
or even spite play inhow you process disappointment?
I will make a joke about it. It doesn't.
If I can laugh at it,then I can get through it.

(38:26):
I can get through it.
It probably, I would say spiteprobably plays a biggest,
a big disappointment addressing this,you know, to connect it to the point
I just made about like people'sexpectations around me,
like really attachinglike their own narrative about who
they think I should bebased on what they need.
I can get real spiteful in that placereally quickly.

(38:46):
Yeah.
It's likewe're we're people in an argument.
Sometimes people like,they try to set the terms on like, well,
this is what the winning argumentlooks like.
And like, especially when I seethat somebody is disappointed in me
and they've chosen to use thatdisappointment as a reason to mistreat me,
to talk down to me or whatever, thenI will be talking about mass and energy.
I'll be all them things, right?

(39:08):
Like one of my favorite memes,which people don't use as much anymore,
but like it was a Superman capeand somebody would be mad
and they would say something,
and then you send the Superman capeand say, here, here's a cape.
Now you can be super mad like that. Is.
Yeah, that is like,if you want to talk about like, something
that's science that like, exemplifiesmy own energy

(39:30):
as Superman now.
Hey, you think, hey, now you can be super.
You can be super high, right?
I believe that, like, there is somethingabout those moments for people.
Just again, I want to distinguish betweenwhen I disappointed
somebodyand I need to be held accountable.
I will show up. I want to be accountable.

(39:51):
I want to have thatWhen somebody is disappointed in me again
because of their narrative,because of the nonsense they projected on
me, that is, I'm not going to do anythingto fix that.
Yeah, I'm not.
And where they're like, oh, you know what?
You just what this this meansyou're like an educated whatever.

(40:12):
You're right.
You got it right.
You got it. You.
Right now I don't be knowing, right.
I mean, thinking like, right.
You know, last year, a different friend
crashed out on me, and, around a disagreement.
We had, some stuff I said aboutAnd this person decided
that, like,what needed to happen in that exchange.

(40:36):
He named.
He was disappointed in me.He thought I was better than that.
And my immediate response in my head,I said,
I can't rememberexactly what I said online,
but my immediate response is, oh,you think I'm better than that?
Is your life
now is your first problem because I ain't,I'm not better than nothing.
It's about to get.
You've had to see it all.
It's gonna get ugly.

(40:57):
Ugly, really, at like two second.
Like, chose to call me and it choseto call me names and all of that.
And I realized part of what neededto happen, what he wanted to happen.
I think what he was expecting towas that I would be insulted.
And so I would engage in this debateto, like, prove him wrong
till I try to, like, jumpinto this battle of And I definitely I'm

(41:20):
a strong believer in not attendingevery argument I'm invited to.
And so I was just like,you know what? You're right.
Right.
It's like, you know what?
That's that's how you feel about it.
You are correct and is like,
I'm not trying to be right and blah, blah,blah, blah.
I was like, you know what? That's right.
You're even more right.
You're even you're the most right now.

(41:41):
You're the most right.
You're the right at you.You're a writer than that.
You're so correct.
You're right, you're right.
And I just was like, nope, I'm not.
I'm everything you say for me, right?
I'm gonna be that.
Correct.
You get you got right. You got name call.
You got to call me everythingbut a child of God.

(42:01):
You are absolutely correct. Correct.
And so to me, that'show spike plays the disappointment.
Just like living it.
You disappointed in me.
let it ruminate.
Right.
That's where you that's where you say nowI'm not I'm not going to challenge that.
I'm not going to spend my time and energytrying to like make me make

(42:24):
you see that I fit this thingthat I didn't even ask to fit anyway.
So I hope you got it.
I hope you believe in howand how you see me.
Yes, is is correct. Correct me is right.
Yeah.
And so that's where spike plays for meand disappointment where it really is.
Just likeyou can just say disappointed in me.

(42:44):
Then. Yeah, that is.
That is a great way to feel about that.
Is it.
It is how I feel.
I don't you know, I said itand then I was like,
is it the.
Is it, it is, it is how I do it.

(43:06):
It might, I don't be whether good or notis not what I've asked.
But it is. It's what I be.
That's what it is.
That's what it's going to be.
I definitely use humor.
Like, humor is the way that I processmy disappointment.
Because again,most of the time I've disappointed myself.
So I laugh at myself about things.

(43:27):
Just and, you know, in the sense of,like, again, if you can laugh at it,
you can kind of concrete it like, loses it
very much becomes,you know, spiders with skates on it, like,
so like it becomes sillyand not really scary like that anymore.
And so it makes it easierto, to tackle it.
And, you know, I'm not laughingat everything, but most things.

(43:50):
Yeah, I'm probably laughingat, and it's, it's, you know, humor
has been extremely helpfulin a lot of things in my life.
it's, you know, I think wewe laughed a lot as a family.
So laughterwas how we got through a lot of stuff.
Anyway.
And it was,it helped me get through a lot of things,
especially disappointment in myself.
I hope I haven't crashed out on myself.
I don't have any fun. Crash. I was 20.

(44:12):
Oh, butthere's one time I broke my own leg.
Oh, no.
Now I havethis is this is an aside, but I have
I probably have too many stories of peoplewho have crashed out on me
that I didn't see comingbecause they had feelings about who I was.
And like.
I am again, leaning in again.
I got to tell people, you trash.
Nobody believes me, I am, I am not trash,I am fantastic.

(44:36):
No, but I have talked about sometimes
feeling like I am undiagnosed autisticand there are a variety of reasons
why I think that, and whyI haven't pursued a diagnosis or anything.
However, comma, one of the things that.
In looking through the through lineof my life and looking back to my history

(44:57):
and, friendships, relationships,it is the kind of taking things
literally and, or at face valueAnd so and recognizing we're in a time
where, like, I don't wish to furtherany stereotypes about autism.
But it just doing some of my ownreading and naming my experience,
it does feel like a space.
And one of the things that happensthat has happened to me more than once,

(45:20):
in very extreme ways, is I someI took a relationship
I was having with somebody at face valuewhere I thought we were engaging
in this way because all the words said,this is what we're doing.
And so I was like, that's fine.
And then we get to the moment where I am
behaving in a way that,again, is aligned with my internal logic

(45:44):
and alignedwith who I think I've communicated
and they had some type of ulterior motiveor a different narrative about who
I was or where I was supposed to be,and then I don't align with that behavior.
And then all of a sudden there's somebody
right at the face yelling at meabout why I didn't do something.
And I'm just so confusedabout how we got here. Oh,

(46:05):
and I'm like,
I don't understand what just happened.
Like, I asked a question and I was alwaysI feel like that question is like,
do we need to do A or B?
And then why would you ask me,did you read the book?
I'm like, you seem upset.
What? What happened?
What happened? Right.Oh no. What's wrong?

(46:27):
Oh, no.
You see, mad did I, did I ask something?
And then it's like.And then you hear the like back.
And then unload.
These are all the things I think aboutwhy we haven't done
blah, blah, blah, and whyyou aren't this and why. And I'm like.
And it totally inspired me.
Like, this is the first I'mhearing of any of that,
right? Which is

(46:47):
not this doesn't quite meet the moment.
No, you can't you can't say that.
You can't do that.
But I'm just likeI mean, maybe I could listen,
if you were yelling at me,I would, I could consider some of these.
But I had no idea.
That was like, yeah.
And so yeah.
So again, I think I practiced that,dealing with other people's
disappointments in mebecause it has happened to me a lot

(47:08):
where it's like I thought we were walkingalongside doing this thing in this way,
and then we get to this fork in the roadand I'm like, do you want to take A or B?
And then they're like,
why wouldn't you know that we should takeA because it's blah blah blah, blah blah.
And I, I didn't and I look backand I'm like, but we were walking
I had no I haveno I have no other context.
And they look back and so, you know,

(47:29):
they're looking at a completely differentroad than you're looking right here.
And I'm looking at like the very straightroad where we said we were doing this.
And then we got to the forkand now we decide and it's not it.
And so it is wild just to think oflike the number of crash that stories
I have where people just were deeplyinvested in a version of friendship,
relationship, business relationship,that they were like,

(47:49):
this is how this is going to be.
And then I was maybe I hadn't.
I didn't know that that was on the table.That was the thing to consider.
But now they're already yellingat me. So now it's over.
So because you can't you can't yell at me
and then you can't hold me like that,and now you're yelling and it.
We keep the balance over for now.
Over like that's it. Oh, no.

(48:10):
That was we could have talked about this,whatever the thing is.
but you jumped to yellingbefore you said anything.
And so now, now we don't talk anymore,
which is disappointing.
I love itI love way to bring that back around.
Well, Dan, full circle.
Okay. Caught.

(48:30):
I got one more question for you,which I feel like I know the answer to.
Ready? When?
When was the last time you told yourself,okay, this is disappointing.
This disappointmentis not going to kill me,
but I have to sit with it for a minute.
Oh, I mean, recentlyand the last little bit,
but there was, it was itwould have been a really dope opportunity.

(48:50):
There were some opportunities.
I was looking at and this didn't work out.
And nobody misbehaved. Nothing,nothing that happened.
It just was like, it's just not the rightone at the right And I really wanted it.
It was just like,for a variety of reasons.
I really wanted, to explorethis new or a next step.
And I feel like I showed up exactlythe way I wanted to.

(49:12):
I feel like I gave everything I couldand it just, again, didn't pan out.
And I was like, okay, that's that stinks,
right?
Gotta sit with it and really see.
Okay, what is the, where is this disappointment coming from?
What is it?
And it's just and it really is just likeI wanted it and it didn't happen. And.
It's been positive to just see that, like.

(49:34):
Yeah, but how would I have showed up differently?
And it's I really wouldn't have,
you know, like in thatI can still feel sad about that.
But it's also just like,no, I, I feel like I presented.
Yeah, everything kind of I present myselfwith integrity myself consistently.
I offered the insight.
I told the about,you know, good, bad or indifferent.
I the things and it just wasn't it. Yeah.

(49:55):
And left it all on the table.
I left it on the table.
And so there is something comfortingjust being about, like, if I had to
do it again, what And the answer,I don't think I would have done anything
And knowing that there's,it gives me, just energy to try.
It's like, okay, maybe
we can try it, we can tweak it,we can figure out what the next step is.
But yeah, it's it's
like the only thing that's going to fixthe feeling is just to sit with the Yeah.

(50:19):
Yeah.
No, that's very that's kind of it.
That's the secret sauce.
It's like fast right.
And it's helpful to realize like, okay,just by sitting with it
I am doing the thing.
I'm getting overYou know, I'm not like wallowing in it.
I'm not like wearing the feelinglike a suit to like the only thing.
But it's also just like, all right, maybeI'm just, like a little less fun today

(50:39):
because I'm sad and orI don't really want to talk to anybody
right now, or I don't want toI don't is want to feel for other people.
Because out.
So I think the and namingjust more of my personal stories
or more of my self in that like I tendto be a general, I'm a positive person.
I tend to be a we can keep going person.
I tend to be a moving forwardAnd I also am very, very lucky

(51:03):
to have like a large community of peoplewho care and support in no way, however,
when I because I'm somebodywho is continually kind of moving forward
and so on, the path that fits when I stop,when I'm like, you know what I need?
I need to take a breather.
It's noticeable in a waythat people are like, what can I do?
Can Can I be that kind of all of it?
And sometimes it's like, the I just wantto do is sit here and feel this thing.
So I feel this thing for a minute.

(51:23):
I will be I will catch up. Right?
I'm right behind y'all. I'm right back.
I'll be there and I,
I want to hold the energyand I'm grateful for it.
I, I cannot stress enough how thankfulbut sometimes I want to be like I don't
I can't performhow I'm feeling for you right now.
I just want to sit and like,I'll go, I feel it.
Y'all going at it?

(51:44):
Yeah, I'll be there. I'll be there. Right.
If you don't see me in, like,you know, a week or so, like back.
Give me a call right.
But like and so yeah.
So that is the moment where it's like,I just need to sit in the feeling.
With the feeling. We need to.
I need to commune.I need to look the feeling in the eye.
And just like, look at here feeling okay.

(52:05):
Right. And let it just, like,sit in my body. What does it look like?
What is the thing?What is different. Yeah.
So yeah that would be that would be it.
And and I'm, I feel like I'm exiting that.
I'm like I really saw the upswingand that feels How about you to
when was the last timeI was like really disappointed.
I can't really think right now
when the last time I was disappointed,which is clearly a good sign.

(52:29):
Look at that.
Look a bit. Grow with growth. Grow.
But I remember the moments.
I do remember being disappointment, beingdisappointed and having to sit with it.
feels a lot better than distractingyourself from disappointment
because it feels like it feels likeyou're being chased kind of all the time.
when you're running from disappointmentor you're running

(52:51):
from like failure or things like that.
It feels like you're constantlybeing chased by the killer in the house,
and the rooms are getting smaller.
Like, I
like when you can kind of turnand face this thing
like it's it changes it, it gets it,it takes the power away.
But when you're running

(53:11):
from disappointment, it justthe rooms are just getting smaller.
I don't like that. So.
So no, sit with it.
I the I can't think of the last time,but the times that I have had to do that
sitting with it has been much easierthan not facing it.
And every timeit takes me forever to get there.

(53:32):
But I've gotten there a lot quicker now.
Yes. Growth? Yes. Positivity.
Yes. But it's still takes some days.
And still it's like,oh, I don't we're in this, okay.
We're in this a little too long.You know. Yeah.
As much as Jennifer Love,as much as I love Jennifer Lewis,
she has the greatest thing.
You can sit and sit long enough.
It starts taking.
So? So you gotta get out.

(53:53):
It. It's out therenow. Dust yourself off.
Get out of there.
So you got to get out.You got to. So you got to sit in it.
But then you ask the process
of sitting in it for a minuteand then leaving and like, leaving that
behind is even,I think, even its own battle You out there
struggling with disappointmentI get y'all, I get it, get it.
You got this.

(54:14):
We willwe will move forward will move forward.
we're ready to shiftinto our next segment.
Oh, here's the thing.

(54:38):
Yeah.
You see how you feel.
And, hey, I'm feeling good. Yes.
All right.
So we're going to jump into here'sthe thing where one of us or both of us
get entirely too invested in somethingand the other has to keep up.
It's deep dives, hard takes.
And, Laura, you didn't know you needed.
I'm happy to jump off.
Absolutely. I have I have some thoughts.

(54:59):
And so, yeah, these are this I feel like
you already get a bunch of rants for meanyway, but this is another one in that.
All right?
I belong to craftingWe talk about the crafting and I love,
I have to say, my secret,even though it's not a secret.
I feel like I've explained this,but I love Facebook group.
I love a Facebook group around the craft,I love the people talking about it, I do,
I watch it, it'sI am and it's gotten better.

(55:21):
I will also name it's gotten better,but I am so over
these quote unquote apolitical craftingwhere they're like,
we're just here to knit or sowe don't really do politics or whatever.
And I'm like, it's all political,like everything you do.
And also these same people,many of these same

(55:43):
I will name kind of middle Americawhite women.
I say this as a as somebody who on paperreads like a middle America white woman.
I think that that's so true.
Right.
you recognize I'm not one, but,you know, on paper.
Oh, you didn't know you were like this in this white woman
from the flats of Utah, right?

(56:05):
I get it, are so mad because
right now they're tryingnot to be political, quote unquote,
almost always in this case,the people who are calling for
apolitical crafting spacesfrequently are conservative and or right
because the leftists are also like, we're,

(56:25):
you know, pro black, pro, LGBTQ,
pro, people, disabilities, pro
everything, anti-fascism, anti genocide and all of that.
Right?
And then they're like,
I don't understand why you're in spaceshave to be political.
But these same women and again
I know it's it's not always gendered.

(56:48):
However it's been really interesting
to watch these same purchasesof craft materials
be real up in arms about these tariffsbecause I don't know if y'all know,
but a lot of yarn is not made
in the U.S of a okay,
we know keep sheep in the same waywe do cows.

(57:09):
But cows don't make sweaters.
We we don't do the yarnswhich you don't want.
No leather sweater.
Right.We can't. It's hard to knit leather.
That's not the thing.
The wool comes from elsewhere.
There is definitelythere is some American wool,
but for the most part,the good stuff comes here by boat

(57:31):
and it's been wild to watch
just these people who were like,blah blah blah.
No politics in my knitting,in my yarn, in my fabric.
I will also namenot just yarn, but fabric.
A lot of fabric is dyedand or manufactured elsewhere, you know,
and so these folks who were like,no, politics in my craft spaces

(57:54):
are all of a sudden getting an additionallike it can be anywhere from 80
to like $150 on top of a $90 order.
Yeah. Right, right.
Like, because.
So there used to be this terribleexception, the, I think, de minimis
exception.
I'm probably saying that wrong if you careabout it, correct me via email.

(58:16):
And what it meant was that if you orderedless than $800 worth of goods,
you didn't have to paythe additional tariff cost, right?
So that means if you orderedless than $800 worth
of yarn or fabric or whatever,we didn't pay tariffs.
It could also mean that
for like fabric manufacturersor yarn distributors or whatever,
who were ordering their things
from overseas,they could buy the things in bulk, right?

(58:39):
They could get their full on wholesalemanufacturing from overseas
and then distribute the costamong their consumers
in ways that where it's likeslightly distributed as opposed to like
because they could basically distribute
the cost of a big shipment,across a lot of consumers.
But that's not what's happening right now.
Right now, it is.

(59:00):
It doesn't matter.
$800 or not, it doesn't matter.
You got to pay that tariffon top of the thing,
and they are mad about it,but also not trying
the ones who may or may not have voted forthis administration are complaining,
but are also trying not to complainlike it has to do with who they voted for.

(59:21):
And it is Viola Davis gifjust to make it that I.
Actually, I like the LeBron gif.
You say I don't know what, but yes,both of them.
Yes. Where like and so the language islike people are talking about it.
But all of a suddenthere's just this notable silence

(59:43):
around tariffs and where you get itand you know but Joanne's gone
also as an indirect resultof this administration, people are.
Just sitting there a little confusedbecause they want to complain about it.
But they know they know thethe overall talking about
you hear about why is this

(01:00:05):
and nowhere what was that?
What was that? What did you say?
What I thought was political.What you about to say? Wait a minute.
What did you got to say?This is political.
That sounds good. Is it?
That sometimes is a politicianin a political event?
Right. Did that happen?
He said, which one would you doyou vote for?
What is that about?
What?
And so, yeah, it's just like this ideathat like any space is apolitical.

(01:00:28):
And in 2025 it's just like, not right?
And frequently when somebody saysan apolitical space, an apolitical,
but they're really saying this is a spacewhere we all have a shared politic.
And so we don't talk about which isdifferent from it's not political.
It is just we have shared politics.
We don't talk about those shared
And we don't bring it upbecause it messes up the illusion
that we have a shared politic.

(01:00:48):
And so it's all aboutsmoke and mirrors, man.
The smoke and or mirrors. Right.
And so that is my like, here'sthe thing where it's just like
there is nothing there is
there is nothing that you can do thatthere's a political right now,
particularly in the waysthat this administration has weaponized
every kind of faction of existence,like you can't it's just like everywhere.

(01:01:10):
Everything is a battleground.
And so you have to make real choicesabout where you stand and demanding
that spaces become a politicalwhere we we aren't, we don't.
And I understandyou can make agreements around like,
we aren't going to talk about politicshere.
I think that is a politic.
But it's also that is an agreement.
And so that's just that we aren't goingto bring that into the space is different

(01:01:32):
from the spaces,and we can't talk about them ever.
In this space.
It's like, no,
we're making an agreement
that what we're going to focus onright now is this topic,
these other topics may impact us,but right now
this is what we're going to talk about
as opposed to being like,I don't understand
why politics has to enter this placein the first place.
It's like, well, now you do.
Now that you're paying $300for $70 worth of yarn,

(01:01:52):
I bet you understand where politics goesthere, right?
I don't know why it didn't matter when itwas about your uterus or your rights, but
but that you want to know
what it's going to cost you, costingyou two and a half times
what it used to cost you to knitthat sweater for your grandbaby.
You probably have opinions now.
Just you might you might have opinions.
Nap. Professor.
What are they?Where are we now? This is finished.

(01:02:14):
What are thoseopinions? This is a safe space,
This is the same space.
I may be lying about it being safe space?
Who knows?
Just recording right. So. Yeah.
So that is my here's the thing.
My deep dive, and or rant aroundthe myth of apolitical crafting.
Because it does exist.

(01:02:35):
I think all forms of art,regardless of style or political
from junk, regardless of it'sabsolutely all art is political,
all art is political.
And and I think artI think art is super political, period.
But I think art is most notable.
I think its most noticeableand most noticeable.
It's the arts.

(01:02:56):
Politics are most noticeablein what you choose to exclude.
Yeah I'm not saying.
Because theI mean yes we have very clear politics.
What we do saybut that that is also choice.
But somebody choosing to omit thingsbecause they feel
that those things are
being said elsewhereor because they don't want to include that
in their storybecause somebody else is talking about it,

(01:03:16):
or because I don't think it's important.
Like all of that,
I think, becomes a really clear indicatorof your of your politics.
Yeah.
And the fact and the things that you thinkaren't political become really clear
when you're like, well,I don't want to do politics.
I'm not going to include this thing.
So what are the things you didinclude that?
Yes. Yeah.Those are in fact very political.
I love
those are some of the threemy favorite things to look at in

(01:03:38):
like plays or whatever, where it's like,what didn't you talk about?
Oh, why did you do that?
What did you do?
That's so cool.
That also kind of ties into my here'sthe thing.
What is the thing for you?
My thing?
It's broken up. Broken up into two parts.
My first thing is thatI believe that we are in
that 2025 might be one of the bestgaming years ever.

(01:03:58):
I think it's a year where lots of major
studios got to finally make the gamethat they wanted to make
when they first started,because of storytelling, technology
and the, like growthof the gaming industry.
For example,
Dynasty Warriors Origins is a gamethat came out in January of this year.
Courtney, watch me play it.

(01:04:19):
It's by far the best Dynasty Warriors gamethat's ever produced.
And it's it's extremely engaging.
It's super fun. But it itit tells the story.
You know, it's the Dynasty Warriors.
It's like a 30 plus year franchise.
And they have made a lot of money
making seven out of ten, sixand a half out of ten games.

(01:04:40):
It's no shade to Koei Tecmo to the middleof the pack is still in the pack, baby.
Come on now, come on now.
All right.
This is a person who's played the company.
Person who's played every game.
This game was so good.
And I was like, oh, this is what you guyswanted to make to begin with.
This is thethe story, the scale, the sense of of,

(01:05:02):
of you know, you're taking on thousandsof soldiers single handedly, like,
these are the things that you technologieshad to catch up to your idea.
And when it did, you were like, this is
this is what we've been trying to dofor 30 years.
And I think a lot of games are doing thatthis year.
I think there's a lot of games.
I think the next few years are going to belike a kind of golden renaissance

(01:05:23):
of both major studios and indie developerscoming together and working on the same
and fuzing their companies, becausethat gap is getting much smaller. But
on the other side of that,
I think this is some of the worstcommunity in gaming ever.
Yeah,I think I think headline games are good.

(01:05:44):
People are trash.
Online games are good, people are trash.
Okay. The the the like.
Bifurcation of of communities
of of nerds and gaming that have come thatthat have happened in the last,
let's say post pandemic that has happenedhas been detrimental

(01:06:07):
to the communityto like nerd culture as a whole,
because there are momentswhere we're playing
games, people are playinggames, young people are playing games.
But, you know, young queerpeople are telling their stories.
Young blacksor black kids are telling their stories
like people are likegaming has been has become this platform
where stories can be told by anybodyand from any point of view.

(01:06:28):
And the moment that there is a minority,
be that a person of color or,
or a womanor a female presenting character,
or in any kind of disability in any way,if it's not a cool dude
blowing shit up, people are like,this game is woke.

(01:06:50):
This game is not like this game.
Looks like you start to like belittle itin the way that is
is destructive to the communityand the industry as a whole.
Because people are playing,people are telling you not to play games
before games were even announcedor given release dates,
or any type of demo or game

(01:07:12):
play has been shown to where you're like,
because you don't like this game
for whatever ungodly reason,
you think other peopleshould not play this game, and then
but then you're going to be madwhen that studio goes out of business
because nobody bought their game.
And now you're like,well, gaming is dying like no fucker.
You're killing it. Like, chill out.

(01:07:36):
Like chill out.
If you don't like the game,don't play the game.
You don't have to play the game,
but you don't have to tell other peopleto not play this game.
How dare you make me sufferthe consequences of my actions?
Oh, I oh dear,
you make me sufferthe consequences of my own actions.
I don't, I don't bullshit

(01:07:58):
my fake news like I don't.
I don't understand it like people playCall of Duty.
Call of Duty as a staple is just shootthe other guy.
It's always been that.
It's always going to bethat it's cops and robbers.
It's cops and robbers on a global scale.
And this is coming fromsomebody who is name is in two credits.

(01:08:22):
Like, I'm not saying this,you know, this ain't some shit.
I heard, like, shit, I know this shit.
I know it'sjust shooting the other person.
Wow. I understand and have playedhundreds of hours of Call of Duty
when they're they add a character in therewho is black or

(01:08:44):
or a woman or in any waynot a regular white dude.
There are think pieces and articlesabout what
it is to behave like a woke game.
And I was like,you're calling Call of Duty.
The Army simulator game
woke is insane to me.

(01:09:05):
It's not a biological work.
It's diabolical work.
And you're not and you're not.
You're not helping the industryby thinking that getting on TikTok
and talking about how gaming is wokeis is gonna one hurt.
Sales like these are major,major corporations
making, you know,whether you like the game or not.

(01:09:27):
Making a game is really difficult.
It's hours.
It's hundreds of hours,thousands of hours, years of work.
And that's just the technical side of it.
We're not talking about the researchwe're putting in the the countless times
that people are just like,oh, we we've been in Milan for a week

(01:09:47):
because we're doing,a Spanish Assassin's Creed.
And we had to just stay in Milanfor two weeks
to take pictures of everything Italian.
Milan is in line is in Italy.
That's my mess up.
It's I it's all in there.
Yeah. I'm just. I'm just happy.
I'm just helping you out.
And you know what?
And I appreciate it,because that's accountability.

(01:10:10):
a lot of in Italy.
But yes.
So we're, you know, we're redoingthe Assassin's Creed series in Italy.
So we have to go back to Milanto hang out.
And we're there for a week.
But we were here for a week, two yearsbefore we've announced the game.
Like the amount of timethat goes into making games
and you think that your four minute TikTokvideo is going to change things

(01:10:31):
about an entire industry
that you say that you love, like,let's not say like these as much as,
you know, a person who's dedicatedtheir entire life to animation
and 3D animation at their gamesor their entertainment, their toys,
they're meant to be played withand have fun with to tell a story.
It's it's crossed over now.

(01:10:51):
It's not just a toy, but it is a it's atoy that you're supposed to have fun with.
And people,you know, talk about my capitalism rant,
which is that like, people do anything nowto just generate money.
It's not about generating. It'snot even about generating content.
People generate content toAnd so it's not about the gaming industry.
It's not about making a good toy.

(01:11:12):
It's about making the thingthat gets enough people
to click on the thingsthat I'm talking about so that I can make
That's very true.
I hate capitalism, it sucks. It sucks.
It takes a lot.
But I'd be wanting money.
So I just, you know, I do.
I want money, but I wantwe talked about this and that.
We want money to get things you want.
Money is security.

(01:11:33):
And the fact that we turned everything,everything into is it does generate money
or does it not, and that there aren'tother ways to build community.
There are other ways to have security.
There aren't other ways to pay your bills,to have access to entertainment
like everything is only accessiblethrough money.

(01:11:55):
Yeah.
Cap and and so now to eatyou have to generate money to live.
We have to generate money to like,connect with people.
You have to generate money at all costs.
All the exchangeor the, the trafficking of money.
It's like, no, you could actually buildwe could have built societies.
And I think we still can.
We could have built societies
that were less about exchangeand more about how do we participate

(01:12:16):
and how do we support each other,how do we actually
it doesn't have to just be barter.
can just be the ideathat, like, health care is free
because we think it's importantthat people live,
are healthy, and live long, full,healthy lives.
but it's that to interrupt your rent.
No, I, I get it was that.

(01:12:37):
It feels justpeople spend all of their time talking
about how they love a thingand what they really, actually love
is the money that talking about their lovefor this thing gets them.
And so way they'll say whateverabout the thing,
as long as the money keepsthat's what the money's for.
That's what the money's Yes, that is mythat is my deep dive.

(01:12:57):
How both this year is both.
Probably one of the greatest gaming yearswill at will see
in recent historyand why the community doesn't deserve it.
I think the play love it games,great people, garbage people, garbage.
Fantastic.
What a day where it is. Hey!
Well, we're sliding into heart and soul.

(01:13:18):
Heart and soul.
The meat and potatoes.
Peas and carrots, peanut butter.
Two are jelly peas and carrots.
Nice work. Hard to play hearts
and work hard.
Play hard.
You're going to talk about like ourtactics for dealing with disappointment.
So weI mean moment talked about the feelings.
We talked about whatwhat is our experience.
talk about some work hard.

(01:13:38):
Play hard.
So, Tyrone.
that is my name.That is your name. Look at.
That's my name.
What strategies helpyou set new goals after a major letdown?
The Lulu is the solution.
As the kids say now.
Okay, it is it is it to be?
It is to take that on the chinand immediately make another goal.

(01:14:02):
And like, that could be healthy or not.
Okay, as I said.
So argue with your mama.
Okay.
So I agree with me about it.
Okay.
It's immediately oh no, that sucked.
Great.
So there's a but there's other thingsthat we could go after.
We're going to go after those.

(01:14:22):
And it's it's it's within hours.
Usually.
Hard. Same right. Instance.
That sucked. Okay.
But there's other things that one wouldsuck. Let's go towards those.
Maybe those all suck.
Or if they do, maybe they'll suck less.
And I definitely likeyeah I'm, I like I say
I, I definitely will sitand look at my wounds for a second.
It's like,all right, we're going to, you know, go

(01:14:44):
off into the corner, sit, sit on the stoollike shake it out a little bit.
Yeah.
Get a drink of water like I do liketo just have a seat and be like, okay.
No I know, and I it's like.
And I know it's like, no,I'm going to get back up there.
Like, I don't feel likeI don't know how to get, but I'm going to,
I'm, I'm going to sit through all of thisbreak.
You got to beat up a little boxingbreak. Break. Yeah.
We're going to go. Right, right. Yeah.

(01:15:05):
I was like that whole that round thing.
Like I'm not going to get up,put myself up just yet.
I'm like, nope, we're going towe're going to sit down,
go over the strategy right to come back.
But it is also like whatwhat can I do next.
And sometimes it is not about what I can'twhat can I do next for the next goal.
It is like what is the thing that I cando. show you know what we can do.

(01:15:26):
We're just going to,we're going to play a game.
That's all we're going to do for you.
And you know, we're going to
we're going to knit this thingor we're going to
we're going to do something that it's justabout remembering that I can do things.
Yeah, disappointment isn't like the whole
I usually that's that's super truebecause I usually make something
I usually like, even if it's somethingjust like a ball bouncing.
I'm like, know we okay?We still know how to do this thing.
We know how to do it. Right? Right.

(01:15:48):
Yeah.
And I definitely do like, you know,I've seen the goal suck.
All right, what's the next stop? Like?
I frequently say,I think about it a lot where it's like,
all right, well, I didn't blow up,so there's still something to do, right?
Blowing up.
That is so real. Right.
And I don't know why that became, like,my standard, but it's like.
It's like, nope, I did not just.
I'm still here.

(01:16:08):
There's still a personthat can move forward in some way.
So let's do that until like until I can,
but yeah,but I definitely do suggest that.
Yeah, we're going to sit down this week.
All right?
We're just going to think you got it.
You got it.
But I, I'm obviously when I get up.
No that's I got you got it.
Okay.We're going to I'm gonna. That happened.
I also try not to make big, big decisionsin it after this.

(01:16:33):
Oh no.
No there's no it's like that's how you.
Yeah. It'show you that's how you get in the house.
There is no right. You end up. It's like,you know what. Nope.
This is I'm feeling real thing.
So maybe we're going to just hold on that.
No major just making this choiceor making out. Yeah.
So but that does help.
Just give myself to just be likeI was disappointed.
So we're going let that go.
It's just let that go on pause.

(01:16:54):
Make a thing come back.
Yeah I love that. That's that's yeah.
Regardless of it.
That's the way to do things or not.
That's the way I'm doing it.
Which I'll do might be different.
And again let us know.
Comment email let us know.
Hustle with origins wherever, whereveryou find us let us know how you feel.

(01:17:14):
Do you build in buffers or
expectations to protect yourselffrom disappointment in projects?
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Do you you and I feel like you have to.
I feel like you have to.
Yeah.
I mean, for me, having a planalways helps.
Even if it's a plan that's like,not great.

(01:17:34):
But just knowing is like, all right,if this blows up, this is how I respond.
And for me, it's helpful to at least know
the next step after something goes wrong.
So I don't like to say everything
I, I'm not necessarily onewho's like, plans for every catastrophe.
I'm not quite Batman in the sense
of having the backup planto the backup plan, but I do like knowing,

(01:17:56):
okay, if this goes left,I don't think it's going to go left.
But if this goes left,this is how will adjust right?
This is you know,if Nightwing loses his mind,
I should justmaybe have this in the back pocket, right?
Like, you never know.
I don't need I don't have to use it.
But however, however, comma,it is nice knowing it's there

(01:18:22):
if I do have to use it,whatever that is, you know, And so yeah.
So a lot of my plans for disappointmentaren't just like,
oh this is going to happen, but like okay,but if this goes this,
it goes wrong one, it'snice to be on the lookout for.
It's like,oh, that might be going wrong. Now.
I might be like seeing it.You can see it coming.
But also knowing that I have a responseor I have a way to pivot when

(01:18:46):
or if these things are wrong, it helps mefeel more secure in what's happening.
So it's like, okay, wait. Nope.We planned we we planned for this.
We knew this is a possibility.
This is how we're adjusting. It sucks.
Or maybe it doesn't suck as bad as we canas we need to.
Maybe you don't have to activate the plan,but it's nice to know
to be on the lookoutfor I 100%, 100% agree with you on that.

(01:19:07):
Like having a plan,even if that plan is just like
cheeks, as the kids say.
If it's just like plan okay,
part one of plan make plan great.
Step one complete except one complete.
Step two is blank.

(01:19:27):
But we made a plan.
Yeah, we'll figure it out.
We'll figure it out.
And it helps.
Like, it helps, like, alleviatethe punches of disappointment.
My, my favorite buffer is my worst casescenario conversations I have.
And they usually my worst casescenario is usually
you got to do this experienceregardless of how it turns out.

(01:19:49):
You got to do this and it feels,you know, it's you didn't you wouldn't.
You've changed as a creative and a personbecause of this experience.
And that will make you betterand it will prepare you for the next time
you are in this experience.
You're not coming inlike you don't know what to do.
My favorite thing is always,
you know, now you have a personat this place that you may have talked to.

(01:20:10):
You, right there. Great.
Somebody who can send email to youand you have something,
you know, when somebody
you can send the email to solutelyand you're like, well, it could be worse.
It could always be worse.
So as I like to say, you know,you could be you can have no arms,
which is like a thingthat keeps me together
as a personwho engages with gaming and art and.

(01:20:32):
And there are people,there are people with art with off.
They're making amazing things.We're doing amazing things.
even that even that you even that peopleare always people always fascinate me.
I love it,I love how adaptable we are as humans.
There's a, a book that was recommendedto me by a mutual shout out to Greg.
Yes, but it is called.
I want to make sure quoting it.

(01:20:53):
Right. secret, the secret of our success.
And it really talksabout, humanity humans.
And,
the full title is The Secret of SuccessHow Culture Is Driving Human Evolution,
domesticating our speciesand Making Us Smarter
and so reading it, I don't have all of it,but one of the kind of central tenants

(01:21:13):
is that one of the thingsthat makes humans, special, frankly,
is that we can learn by watching.
Yeah.
You know, and and the sense of andand not even just, like, instruction,
like 1 to 1, like we can see, oh,that community over there did that thing.
We are going to be different.
we can internalizeother groups experiences

(01:21:35):
in a way that other creaturesor can't or can't do that.
And and so we can learnfrom other people doing,
which means we get to learn faster.
And so sometimes it's helpfuljust to like in these meetings
that you're talking aboutor in the time where it's like,
okay, well,the worst thing that happens is

(01:21:56):
I learned what this meeting couldlook like.
Exactly. Okay,
Now Iknow how to hold some other meetings.
Now I know whothe type of person to talk to.
Now I can take this experienceand transfer it to a different experience
and I think about that a lot,where it's like, okay, I learned
and you know, it's a good way to use likemy barometer of, well, I didn't blow up.

(01:22:18):
Like I actually now have that informationand I can go use that information
in a different context in a different way,like new groups just in the room.
Yeah, right.
It's like, okay, I see this,I see this practice, I see this,
this way of being okay, I can alter,I can grow, I can build on that.
And so that becomes one of my buffersaround expectations.
No, but it becomes a really great wayto where.

(01:22:40):
So now like even experiencesdidn't work out the way I wanted to
are still like informationfor the next experience.
yeah.
Nice. It's 100% how I.
You take this appointment on the chin.
Or at least, like I said, buffer myselffrom disappointment in a sense of
just like I'm just building.
I'm always pushing forward less Brown

(01:23:00):
as a motivational speaker who I enjoy, who
you know, hits people with the practice,makes what and people say perfect.
And he goes, no, dismantle that or,
dismantle that way of thinkinggoes, practice makes progress.
You can always better your best.
Like yes, yes, yes, yes you can.

(01:23:21):
All right, I feel like wewe didn't worked it, so let's play it.
All right.
So play hard. Question. Right.
Let's go.
What's your go to ritual to resetafter being disappointed?
Is it food, music or guilty pleasure?
is kind of always that.
Always food.
It is 99.9% food.

(01:23:42):
Food.
And then 1% sure is meaningill of like video games of just like,
nope, we're going to do a 12 hour stint.
We're not moving,which also involves food.
The food is probably also foror ramen of some kind.
some stick to my bones. Okay.

(01:24:03):
It's only my spirit.Definitely food for me.
I, I do like I like a meal.
I like a thing.
It's but it's also probably something,some nonsense.
candy.
It's sugar.
It's definitely like food that wasmanufactured in a lab somewhere. It's
like.
Like I feel. Yeah, I definitely feel like.
Like my.

(01:24:23):
It definitely food in both ends.
But like, my celebratory food is almostalways, like, good hearty from scratch.
Yeah. What sure is food.
My disappointment.
Food is definitely foodwrapped in plastic.
That's probably already33% plastic in its, in and of itself,
you know, definitely food that is thatcame out of somebody's is machine

(01:24:44):
like when I'm celebrating, it's farmto table when I'm sad and disappointed,
it is manufactured on ain an assembly line.
You know what I'm saying.
Yeah. Like like paste.
It turned into something.
Right? Right.
Absolutely.
Generally,you know, somebody is fast food.
Somebody is deep fried.
Somebody is processed sugar.

(01:25:07):
Yeah. Red dye 44. Nonsense.
I give me all of that.
That is just that is what it is.
And it's definitely.
Yeah,probably a game or craft of some sort.
Might buy a fabric.
Might buy or Oh, yeah. But is definitely.
But yeah, it's it's like,what am I do. It's all right.
Give me, you know, beermy faces and starbursts

(01:25:28):
and get through to the next timeand and some wood and some virgin river.
And I do love.
I do love virgin river.
Yeah. And it's it. Yes.
My television would be like Virgin River,
which I affectionately refer to as sadwhite people doing that thing.
I love Virgin River.
It's so.
It's so good. I could watch it for hours.

(01:25:50):
When I'm really tryingto, like, be in feelings or action movie
like I'll probably throw onhave we've talked about this
and Ed, has fallenOh, yes, yes, yes, it has fallen is good.
It still is for somebody I like Gerard
Butler being mad that he is somewheresaving everybody's want all of Yes.
So yeah. Hilarious.
I would also kind of put music in this.

(01:26:13):
Depending on the game I'm playing,I'm usually like turned on the sound,
especially for to my played before.
I'll turn down the sound and put music on.
That kind of matchesthe vibe of the disappointment.
But it's definitely food and video games.
How do hobbies or fandoms helpyou recover from disappointment?
We talked a little bit about this, but,
for me, it's just like rememberingthat there's always more stuff to be made.

(01:26:36):
I think that it's a joy about creativebeing in a creative practice
is that I'm disappointed,and there's always something else to do.
Yeah.
yeah, I know the hobby.
The fandom is helpful.There's just always more stuff.
There's always something else to engagewith.
There's always some more work to be done.
And so justbecause I'm feeling disappointed

(01:26:56):
in a momentdoesn't mean that I can't have that.
There's somethingthere's that joy to be had.
And so, yeah,going to the things that I know
represent what I likeor going to the spaces where it's like, I,
you know, knitting is always funwhen you're talking to somebody who has
I have every, every time I turn around,there's a trial somewhere.
I don't even wear shawls that much.
But I love them and I love the texture,and I like getting to make them

(01:27:19):
in general.
And so, like, it's just nice to, like,as long as I have the capacity
to make more thingsthan I can always just make more things.
Yeah, that's really it.
Like the, the fact that you can just makesomething else or, or like, and you know,
anime is filled with disappointment,main characters are always kind of losing

(01:27:39):
and they're like,I'm just going to keep going.
And you're like, If Luffy can keep going,goddamn it, I can, I can keep going.
Like, this kid can't even get in water.
And he wants to be king of pirates, right?I can do this.
I can hopefully.
I also love hearing stories of,
of, like, famous failures or people who

(01:28:01):
had disappointments that they were like,I didn't know how this is going to work.
And getting to the moment where it didwork out somehow,
and they don't have to, like, changewho they were or do anything.
And it's it's nice to be like, oh,
somebody did the thing for a long time,and it just didn't hit until it hit.
And then it did. And stuff happened.
And it's not even aboutand those aren't even.
It doesn't even have to be peoplewho were famous.

(01:28:22):
Yeah, those are the stories we hear.
But sometimes it's just like,oh yeah, that's the thing
where it worked out and this thing,like turned a corner, you know?
Yeah.
And so like, I think of, I have a few,but most recently I've been it's
been really a joy to watch,like Mariska Hargitay and her like.
then this last, like, year or two, I knowshe's been doing things and the promo

(01:28:43):
for the promo for her movieand all that stuff.
But getting to hear more about herstory, and, you know, her
and on TikTok or whatever, butlike just hearing the stories of how like,
she thought her career was going to go oneway, and I saw her.
I think she might have been on the CallMe Daddy podcast.
I can't remember, was funny
where she's talking about how she wentto a psychic and she made she was over it.

(01:29:03):
She was like, this is ridiculous.
And like, Mariska Hargitayreally recuse herself as a comedian.
she was, oh, she'sgoing to be silly girl on a sitcom.
That was like what she wanted, which is.
And so to find.
But she goes to the psychic,and the psychic says something
and she makes the seriousOlivia Benson face.
And he was like that one,the serious face.
That's the onethat's going to make you money.

(01:29:23):
And she was like.
Whatever, loser.
And like, like, like that.
She was like, absolutely not.
This dude's a hack.I don't even know why that you
right?
I don't know about you're nuts.
Like, what do you mean?
I give me my $20 back
right?

(01:29:44):
I am funny and, like, what do you mean?
And he was like,now it's like the serious mug.
That's the one that's going to get you.
And clearly, we know 27 years later
doing the thingand is still is still hilarious.
Like, I don't know this.
As an aside, you folks,if you haven't watched Mariska Hargitay
do anything but SVU like SVU, is great.

(01:30:06):
She's brilliant.
But if you watch her interviews
or if you're watching anything,she is hilarious and ridiculous.
She takes it look like she takes
like nothingseriously in the best way possible.
She clearly like supports it.
But is this always like downfor down to clown for she is a clown.
She's hilarious.
But seeing that likeshe managed to be her but also was like,

(01:30:27):
oh snap, I the thing I thought was goingto be wasn't what it was.
And I got to be me and do all the thingsI want to do by doing the thing,
but doing something out of somethingthat I didn't even imagine is my story.
And and so I love those types of storieswhere it's like, I had a vision
and it was going to be that,and that blew up.

(01:30:47):
And then it turned out that the thingthat actually worked was the other thing
that was that was Rose. Right.
And I'm like, right. That happened.
So many people, humans I feel like are badat knowing what's going to work for
And so I like rely on thatwhere it's like, oh, man.
All right.I thought it was going to be it.
And this wasn't it. All right.
Well, let's just I, we just another thingthat's going to be a cool, cool, cool

(01:31:09):
thing that I think,and I could be wrong about this
is that I think we confuse disappointmentwith failure
I think being disappointed,especially as a creative
and working towards something that you'rein, you're disappointed
that it didn't work outdoesn't mean you failed.
It just means it didn't work outand you can be disappointed at that.

(01:31:29):
But like being disappointed in the fact
that you feel like you failed atsomething is different and yeah,
I think that that's a thingthat it's the thing that I struggle with
sometimes is the thing I know, you know,I have some friends who struggle with.
But but the to remember that failureand disappointment
are not mutually exclusiveor mutually exclusive. Yes.

(01:31:51):
Mutually exclusive.
They're not they're not the same thing.
It's like, I think mutually exclusive.
They they're notthey're not the same thing.
They're not the same thing.
They are mutually exclusive.
no. Never mind. Because youyou can be both.
I mean, mutually exclusivemeans that they can't be one or the other.
Yes you can.
You can fail. And B,there's only to be one.
You can yes,you can fail and be disappointed.

(01:32:12):
So they can be,they can happen simultaneously.
But that doesn't.
But they are not,what's the word? You fool.
Can't get fooled again.
We can't give up again.
No, but they're not,they're not correlated.
Despite that.
Thereit is. Does not directly mean failure.
Thank you. You are smart.
That's what a lot of people tell meas other people tell me, I feel good.

(01:32:36):
Yeah, I feel bad.We get to talk about this.
I feel like, yeah,
a lot about each other, about you know,thank you all for joining us.
We're going to head back in.
I don't know if we knowwhat our next episode is going to be like.
It's going to be a surprisefor everybody, right?
Surprise, surprise. Oh.
For now, thank youall for being on this journey with us.

(01:32:57):
As we talked about like,what disappointment means, we are,
you know, getting toward the end of seasonone of hustling with the
I can't believe it.
We I can't believe it.
now we're looking to close it out.
So. Yeah. Next episode, we episode 11.
The penultimate the penultimate,which is a word that does not use.
I get used a lot for me, So.

(01:33:19):
Yeah, well, listen to this oneand then we'll let you know.
It'd be a surprise with our results, but,it will be, as always,
you know, Tyrone, I'm going to ask youto do these calls to the socials.
Maybe you know what time it is.
Okay.
Hustling with Harges out on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube.
Okay, y'all, I've really been kicking itwith the YouTube.

(01:33:41):
I appreciate you all for that.
By the way.
I appreciate you all so much. We are.
We are really I really lovedoing this thing with Courtney.
It's very fun.
It's a very beautiful thingthat we get to do together,
and I love that we get to bring youalong the journey with us.
That's so sweet.
I try to be brother.
Tag us in all these different things.
Okay, my question for you.

(01:34:04):
What is your ritual to resetafter being disappointed?
Is it food?
Is it a guilty pleasure?
Do you go roller skating backwards?
Down time square?
Please undo that.It's that sounds very dangerous.
Is it like a nice bowl of soup or chili?

(01:34:24):
Chili.
That's a very specific.
Let us know in the comments.
Let us know. Tag us.
And do what videos do all the thingsat Hustling Warehouse bridges.
All right y'all, thank you. Let us know.
And don't disappoint usby not liking sharing subscribing.
All right.

(01:34:45):
Be better than that because we'llwe'll hold it over your head.
Thank y'all. Have a great day.
Bye bye.

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