This Got Deep: Channeling Creativity in the Chaos

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Look, at us doing a thing together.

(00:01):
Look at us doing a thing.
Will there be a party about it?
If there's a party about it,
tag us in, baby. Whatever.
you need.
Cause that's a thing we'll do.
We will celebrate you.
I'm anti-bill for sure.
Anti-bill, for sure. 110% of the time it
works every time.

(00:22):
Hey, y'all.
Welcome to this episode of Hustling with Harges.
I'm Courtney, theater maker,sewist, knitter, nonprofit strategist,
and certified TV nerd.
I'm here with my co-creatorand real life sibling.
What's good people?
I'm Tyrone, a motion designer,3D artist, animator, self-proclaimed
King of the Nerds and cardcarrying film snob.
And yes, I am the younger sibling,which means I bring the innovation

(00:47):
and the petty.
This podcast is our creative living room,a space where deep convos,
pop culture mess and entrepreneurialchaos and sibling joy.
Whether you're a maker, a dreamer,
a burnt out artist or just nosy,this show is for you.
Let's build something dope together.
So pull up, hit that subscribe,text your cousin

(01:08):
and let's go into Hustling with Harges's.Big dog,
Courtney, What's poppin?How are you doing?
This is
how are you doing this week?
I am doing
strong.
Okay, so it is almost a it's a strong
okay solid five

(01:29):
hard five.
Hard five.
Because, you know,the world remains a ridiculous place.
There's just a lot of very serious,very real things happening.
And trying to figure outboth my place in it and my,
like, duty and responsibility and it whilealso like trying to stay sane.
It's a very real thing.

(01:50):
So I feel like I have a handle onsome of it
and have completely no handleson the rest of it.
Is there something I can do
as your sibling to help you navigate this?
Oh, that's a very sweet question, bro.
No, I mean,I really enjoy doing this right?

(02:11):
Right now.
No kidding.
Getting to do this podcast, which I knowsounds a little silly and self-promoting,
but it's fun to have a projectthat is like changing
something that is new for both of us.
So we're we're both coming at it with,like, the exact same level of expertise.
Because a lot of the wayswe've gotten to work together
or even in partnership have been like,it's a thing you're good at

(02:33):
and I'm learning, or it's the thingI'm good at and you're learning,
and this is the thingthat we are both learning and together.
And, you know,there's some things we know how to do that
come from our respective creative spaces,that we get to apply to the space.
But we are at a very similarlevel of expertise.
So it becomes a thing
where we are actively writing together,where we are actively trying together.

(02:57):
And that's real cool.
So like that is also a way of sayinggrounded in a really wild time
because it's like, oh, we get to learnand try this thing together and it's fun.
That's what beautiful I like doing things.
Would you do.
Oh that's great.
I was keep that keep busy though.
Don't tell anybody it's a secret.
I never know what else to do. Tyrone. Yeah. What's.
What happened with you?How you doing, bro?

(03:18):
I am awesomely solid.
Okay?
Like, this
week has been a creative struggle for me.
It has been both.
Like,I've enjoyed watching beautiful things
and have, like, inspired meto do, to make beautiful things.
And then the beautiful thingsthat I want to make,
I don't feel like are good enough or likeI can like push them to the next level,

(03:41):
but I don't know what that next levellooks like.
And that has been, a strugglefor me this week.
But doing the podcast also helps mebreak up the, creative block.
it helps. I'm gonna look like a terriblebecause this.
If I don't ask you, how can I help you?
Do you don't have to be creative.
You can't.
Right now.
I'm gonna look like a jerk. So. But no,but for real, I.

(04:02):
Are there things I could do to support your creative block? No,
no, it's just
it's just, you know, good old fashioned
ADHD and depression.
No no no, but but seriously, it isit is just
I push myself in these, like,creative ways that like,

(04:24):
while other people have been creativein the way that I am creative, nobody
in our immediate circleor even extended circle has,
has, is going through the things that,I am going through creatively.
Like, I'm sure everybody,everybody's had creative blocks
and the creative waysand in their own creative ways,
and have been like inspiredby something that has been one like

(04:46):
drawing them to make somethingthrough this inspiration.
And then it the like finished productor the
or at least the process isnot what you want it to be.
And then you're frustrated.That's where I am.
I'm just general frustration.
the world being on fire doesn't have, oh,
so whenever you do, you mean everything'sfine?

(05:08):
It's good.
No, I get that. And,
you know, the great thing about creativefrustration is that it does not last.
It is not a permanent state of being.
It's like,how do you take care of yourself
just while you're in itand having something else to like?
It just
the thingjust might get kickstarted somewhere,
and you just don't even know wherethat is.
Yes, that's very true.
Thank you for that.

(05:28):
Now is the time for the main moment.
The part of the showwhere we dig a little deeper.
Whether it's creativity, culture,chaos or care.
This is where we pull the threadand see what unravels.
what we're talking about today,is what it means to thrive in chaos.
Kind of expired.
Inspired by just what the world is.
We're gonna gesture wildly. Just put.

(05:51):
It's probably broken right now.
knowing that the world is a chaotic place,
that can be hard to stay focusedand present, and,
we're going to just talk through, like,how do we take care of ourselves?
How do we take care of each other?
How do we generate our creativeand or community or relational processes
in chaos?
So our first questionin this conversation

(06:12):
around thriving in chaos ishow do you manage your creative practice?
Life is laughing.
That's a solid question.I don't think I do it.
I don't think I manage my creative processin, in like a healthy way.
When life be life in.
Because a lot of my creative process, mycreative process also is my entertainment.
So like being inspired, watchingmovies, playing

(06:34):
games, watching TV, those things draw.
I draw inspiration from thatwhich is a part of my creative process,
which I then take to mylike actual creative process of steps
and making thingsI have been really more consumed with like
and consumed strong, not consumed,
but like engulfed you right?

(06:57):
And taken
but like with resting has kind of been
which is like a strong, very importantpart in the creative process.
But it's been a lot more of justbeing like, I'm just gonna scroll TikTok
while YouTube is on my TVthinking about a game I want to play,
and not really liketapping into my creative process,

(07:20):
which is like goes back to becauseI feel like I'm creatively blocked.
it also has this like double edged sword
where I also feel like my creative process
is my sanctuaryfor when life be like for like,
I get to build and create these worldsthat I only I can control
and can tear downand build up in the way that I see fit,

(07:42):
which I can't do in the real world,which causes, you know, this, the
that duality of dealing with all the BSthat's in the world.
And then when the B.S.
in the world, like, filters into my creative process, then it's then I'm variance.
That's when life be life.
And for real.
I get that I will admit something.

(08:05):
Which is like, I haven't sewn or
knitted or done, like,what is my primary creative outlet?
Really? Since the new year, have not.
I don't think I have done itin 2025 and like it's been a long time.
So I've done six monthswithout making something.
And actually, no, that's not true.
The last time I can, I can verifythat I was working on the sweater.

(08:25):
That's the last thingI was really knitting.
And that was in April.
So that was the only thing I was workingon, really.
And I still haven't finished it. But.
So, yeah, I feel you in this creativeblock situation.
Where it's just been a moment whereit feels like the hits keep on coming.
There's just been so much change.
You know, as somebody who works, in arts
and culture, particularly in nonprofitarts and culture, the losses of the NEA

(08:47):
have had these rippling effects,just like the way
the government has really been removingfunding, removing stability.
It's really causing so much chaos injust what the field looks like.
You know, a lot of folks are facinglayoffs or underemployment
or just some significant job uncertainty,
and it's been really hardto generate creativity in that space.

(09:11):
Partiallybecause I want to, I'm definitely a fixer.
I'm definitely somebody who likesI like to
I like to fix a problem and just feelinglike the problems are big and kind of,
I don't say unfixablebecause I don't actually feel that,
but they're just like,
there's just so not moments,there's so massive
and there's not quite a momentto take to catch your breath.
It's not a moment to to like, sit see.
Okay, well, what do I have to respond to?

(09:31):
Because so many things require responseacross a variety of fields.
And like again,while arts and culture is where I,
and working, it'swhere I'm most grounded.
Also understanding,like the ways in which ice is everywhere
or the ways in which,this particular administration
is destroying so many things that create

(09:54):
the administration is destroyingso many things that create
they have these ripple effectsthat create additional insecurity.
And that are alsojust like violent and, harmful.
So it's life is life and life isso is so very life and very fully living.
And so that makes it really hardto want to knit a sweater.

(10:15):
Right. yeah, no, I totally get that wrong.
Like, I mean, I can work on this cartoon,but also like,
babies are gettingsnatched out of people's arms
and it's
and it feels so, it's just hardto stay motivated in that sense.
And namingit is helpful. I feel really lucky.
And then I get to talk to peoplewho are actively engaging
with the problemin a very it's a very intentional ways.

(10:38):
I get to engage with folkswho are really thinking about it
in a big picture way, like not onlyhow do we respond to the moment,
how do we keep people safe in the moment,but how do we, connect
with other people's activism and,and direct actions and tactics,
it just becomes very much like, all right,how do we build a network of folks
who are connected, to each otherand are actively moving this work forward?

(11:01):
so it's getting be in those conversations,getting to find some places
where I can fit inand be supportive or helpful.
But yeah, I will say,like to the original question, managing
your creative practice with life ismy thing is that I don't always,
and sometimes it just
my creative practice just disappears,and that is probably when I need it a lot.
I think that's a thing that we dealwith a lot as creatives where, like,

(11:23):
I think we punish ourselveswhen when life is living
and we aren't doing our creative process,we're like, oh, I should be doing this.
Like, this is what I, you know,this is my outlet.
Or like the thing that keeps me sane
and sometimes the world is,is too messed up to do anything.
Just resting alone is is tiring. So.
I get it, I get it, With that, knowingthat, you know, we can't solve the world's

(11:45):
problems right nowas much as we would like to,
Let's make commitments to each otherand to our heart.
Person with the heart family. Right?
To the to the cousins. Listening.Let's make.
is the promise?
What is the waywe are going to just engage creatively?
That's not just the podcast.
Over the next week, I think I am going tostart doing more epic flower set content.
I'm going to start like recording myself,even if it's just like on my phone

(12:09):
and like taking up space effectively.
think I'm going to push you a little bit.
Tell the people who don't know aboutEpic Flower sack, about Epic Flower sack.
along with my friends Coreyand we have started a, an animated.
We're building an animated series, calledEpic Flower Sack The Rise of a hero,
which is based on the foodand culinary traditions
from around the world,primarily, of black and brown cultures.

(12:33):
It follows hero who is a,
magically imbuedbeing called a lower born
who has the power of static electricityas he has to find
the six pieces of this magical artifactcalled the Golden Loaf.
if he doesn't find them,the evil wizard Sabado
will plunge the world of cornucopiainto chaos and darkness.

(12:56):
Oh, no. And Inc. Don't, devil!
Oh, no!
I'm not promoting it the way I should,
I'm, I get very self-conscious about,
like, hearing myself and seeing myself,which is why I started a podcast.
My sister.
I think it's because it's not mine.
Like, I have a team and I work with it,
but the fact that I've put, like,my heart and soul in this

(13:17):
it feels very personal and vulnerable
to be like,hey, people that I respect and love, I'm
working on this thingthat I would really love for you
to be a part of, or to see or to help findit gets very frustrating.
And so that's how I'm going to improvemy creative process
is I'm just going to just start recording.That's fantastic.
I mean, I get it. I as somebody who.

(13:38):
I am an extrovert factories,you know, and I of the two of us,
we're extroverted in very different ways.
I would say very different.
But our extroversion manifestsin different ways.
so I appreciate thisidea of taking up space.
I'm somebody who I feel likeI take up a lot of space.
I don't really apologize for it,but I also do try to be aware.
I try not to step over people.
But, you know, I like toI like to be a big personality and and,

(13:59):
and so I appreciate idea of making ita point to take up more space.
Right, of saying, hey,now I'm doing this thing and making it
less about the response,even though I know you very thoughtful
about how people are responding,but you're saying like, no,
I believe in this thing,and I'm going to talk to you about it,
and I want us to continueto talk about it.

(14:20):
Yeah. I'm proud of you.You can do that. I'm happy to support.
Thank you.
Yeah.
This is a very serious episode
where we're starting this way.
We're going to go into. There'sgoing to be some nonsense.
It's fine.
I don't feel I love it.
I love how, like, okay, we're goingto get super real with you guys.
Get real.
So my commitment.
So I'm good at being busy.

(14:41):
I do a lot of things,but I recognize sometimes I don't.
do things that I feel like,look like work and aren't necessarily
that is the most vulnerableor most necessary.
You know, Tara and I've talked aboutthis, off the podcast, but I will share.
So I'm not really a designer,but I love to play with design.
Right?
I like branding,I like make a, like a cohesive suite.

(15:02):
I'm the type of person who will, like,
come up with a business ideaand then design the stationery.
Even though I haven't written a physicalletter like two and a half presidents.
You know, if you're looking at uson YouTube, Courtney made the background.
and we'll share the background for.
Yes, but Courtney Courtney madethe background.
Courtney has made all our branding so far.
I enjoy it right.
And I and I'm not the designerof the two of us. Right, Tara.

(15:23):
That is Tyrone's profession.It's the thing I like to do.
And it's the thing that I won't sayunnecessary, but it is definitely a thing
where I can put in creative energy
around and feel like accomplished.
But it may not be the thingthat needs to happen right now.
secret. Spoiler.
For our fans, I mayor may not be designing some t shirts.

(15:44):
If you're interested,you know, drop a comment
in whatever and whatever platform.
But I'm just playing around with it.
It's like, do we need t shirts?
Absolutely.
That we're, you know, early in this podcast situation.
But I do like to, to play.
And so I recognize that that is a creativeway I kind of distract myself from doing
maybe something harder or somethingthat would be more vulnerable creatively.

(16:05):
Right.
Like designing a t shirtnobody asks for is not the same as,
like sitting down and developinga full on promotion strategy
or writing emailsdirectly to people who I know.
It's like saying, hey,I've made this thing.
I really want you to witness this.
I really want your feedbackor even like as I started
my consulting thing, like doing more workpulling in new clients, right?

(16:29):
Like that.
Some stuff that like, feels riskierI'm not actively engaging in right now.
And so I'm going to push you tellthe people what your consulting thing is.
And oh, how the turntables,
oh. How the turntables.
So my consulting practice is CHarge Advisory Hub.
It is a space for small mission

(16:53):
driven orgs or programs or projects.
Like anybody who has an ideaand they're like,
need this idea to have some more support.
I really like it, and I want to figure outwhat it would take to make it happen.
That is who I want to work with.
I have started three organizations.
I've run a large organization.

(17:14):
I ran that for 4 years,like I've spent 15 years helping
people start thingsthat can be replicated,
that can grow and like building solid,like infrastructure
foundations, particularly using technologyand resources.
And maximizing resourceswhen you feel like
you don't have anything likeI feel like I'm good at saying, like,

(17:34):
if you have your first $2,000,what is the business you need to make?
What are the emails or structures or appsyou should be engaged with?
And so that is my consulting practice,helping creative people who are mission
driven get started in a waythat helps to minimize burnout.
Because so many people start a project.
And I write that, I mean, organization,program, event, podcast,

(17:58):
they start a thingand they exhaust themselves
putting trying to do every bit of itand prioritizing, frankly, saving money.
Because money is a really hard
resource to get, particularlywhen you're starting something.
I get that, however,what you end up doing is building a thing
that has no ease points.
Everything is hard.
if you're manually thinningyour social media, right,

(18:21):
you don't have a thing to schedule it.
So you have to log in to every app.
It's like, all right,so promotion becomes a six hour adventure
as opposed to somethingyou do in half hour with the right tool.
Or you don't actually havea project management kind of plan
where you're like,all right, who does what?
How do I what do I need?
Or you're doing a whole bunch of thingsthat you're trying to learn from scratch,

(18:43):
like, let's say you're not a bookkeeper,
but you feel likeyou can't afford a bookkeeper,
so you don't pay for a bookkeeper,and you try to teach yourself bookkeeping
when all you want to dois launch a project.
And so you end up hating your projects,because every time
you engage in the project, you're doingall the stuff that you don't want to to,
or you end up, avoiding the thingsthat you don't want to do again

(19:06):
because you hate them.
And so then your project doesn't movein the way you want it to,
because it's stuckby this thing that you don't want to do.
All right.I think you're talking to me as well.
I was like, I'm not specifically.
I'm just saying this isthis is the area that I am trying to work.
I also have jokingly, said that I'mI'm good at understanding business.
I feel like the clienteleI really want to work with,

(19:28):
I just named the clienteleI want to work with.
There are people who are reluctantto spend money,
which is not a good business strategythat is not a good audience,
to work with their audiences.
But it's like,
no, it's like, I want you to be ableto spend your money wisely.
I want you toI can get I'm good at helping people spend

(19:48):
their first like, 2000 to $5000.
Like, let's saythat's all you have your business.
I actually can do a lot with that andlet you know where to spend your money.
Like as a tip,the first tip is what's the thing
that you hate doing thatyou know you're going to avoid.
That's actually where the mostyour most money should go.
Because there are people out therewho are resourced who can do the thing
that you can teach yourselfvia YouTube to do for four hours.

(20:10):
They can do it and a half an hour,and you make save money in the long run
and the thing will be done.
I'm gonna receive, the challenge andfocused on identifying and more actively
directing my labor around businessdevelopment and or customer generation.
just have some more insightfulconversations.
People who could work with me,developing some more small asks

(20:32):
so that people can reach out,but doing something that is about saying,
hey, these are the types of thingsI can help you with
in building your businessand helping manage your org and helping
build your project and saying, hey,do you want to work with me?
And and also any way I can help supportand be an accountability buddy.
Yeah.
You know, help me when I, when I share,I mean, which we already do

(20:55):
anyway when I share something promote.But let's.
Yeah, let's be like,hey, you're doing a thing.
you want some support?
What would that look liketo all of your creative friends?
You know?
Yeah.
If folks are listening,you know, feel free to email us.
Say it. Hustling with the Hargeswill get it.
You know,if there's something you want from Tyrone,
if there's something you want from me,like.
Let's start a conversation.We're happy to talk to all of you.

(21:17):
Oh, that was so beautiful.That was such a beautiful moment.
Look at us.
Learning things, supporting each other.
When's the last time you truly thrivedin the middle of a mess?
It was recent, I'll tell you that.
But no,we can't tell everybody else's business.
But we can tell.
No. It was
probably when we really first startedpitching, we.

(21:38):
This was 20, I would say 2003,because I don't know what time is anymore.
It was 2023.
don't want to put you off term,but I do want
to invite you to be specific aboutwe like not everybody.
Okay. So yeah.
So because if you and me we but I knowwhen you say we started pitching,
you're talking aboutI'm, I'm talking about juice.
our production company,animation company juice,
which is an acronym for Just UsInspiring Change everywhere.

(22:01):
me, Corey and D, who we referred toas the Juice Crew for a long time.
We started this in,
2010, college, and we started developingat the flower sac.
Like 2014.
So in 2023,
the summer of 2023,we felt like we had enough.

(22:23):
Ideas and products and imagesto create a pitch deck and then start
pitching to streaming serviceson, this platform called stage 32.
utter chaos.
We had no idea what we were doing.
It was a lot of, like,haphazard images that we that we rendered.
And we are like, taking concept art

(22:44):
putting it into our, our pitch decks,which we are creating and writing actively
and like as we're also getting,and filling out pitch forms so we can,
set up meetings it is a very chaotic and,super scary time.
we had never pitched before.
I had never discussed somethingthis passionate, this close to somebody

(23:06):
who was not involved in it, who's not likean immediate, friend or family member.
And the thriving moment camewhen we pitched we crushed it
and it was awesome.
There was like a point system,and it was out of 35 points and we got 34,
and it was it was something that we werevery proud of and very excited about,
and we were very excitedto move forward with the project.

(23:29):
And then the Ryder strike happening.
And so
we were kind of put back to to one,But we had now had this moment where we
we could always come back to this Meg,
but we didthis thing that we were super proud of.
And that's the thingthat I always think about, even when,
even when I'm having this creative block,even when I'm having this,

(23:51):
these, these moments of not being able ofnot feeling worthy or validated
or or things that I struggle with it,you know, every day.
Anyway, I have a file on my computer,which is the rubric
and the review of the program. there.
A quote from it is that the Juice Crewis an up and coming creative force,
which is a thing that I thinkabout on a daily basis,

(24:13):
that back home rootsme and grounds me back in reality.
And that was but it was easily the mostchaotic time as a creative I've ever had.
It was terrifying.
Yes. Creative force? Yes.
Leaving an impression, working
so it would go.
It was terrifying.
And I, I hated every minute of it
but we did it.

(24:33):
And that was the thing that was thatwas the thing that was important to us.
That is that we did it.We've actually caught what?
Where what was the last timeyou thrived in chaos? I.
Have a surprisingly emotional reactionto this question.
And I didn't yeah.
You know, fam,we prepare, we have questions.
But I hadn't really considerwhat my answer to

(24:54):
this questionis going to be until we got here.
And I realized it was, in closing of by for all.
So I, am the former CEO of a nonprofit, named of by for all.
It was, a global nonprofit that servedarts and culture organizations,
that helped themmake mutually beneficial connections

(25:15):
with communities,that they wanted to be connected to.
So it helped museums, choruses, theaters,stance, places like build
healthy and thoughtful connectionsto the communities they wanted to be in.
I was the CEO for, just under four years,
and in the fall of 2024, realizing,there is a funding shortage, realizing
that there was some chaos imminent,

(25:37):
realizing that the tide
on people's participation,on willing to build healthy, equitable,
diverse, inclusive relationshipswith communities, was waning,
that people were not showing upto those relationships as much.
The board and I decided to closeI learned to own many things,

(26:00):
but I felt likeI was both thriving in the sense of
I fully felt responsibleand like held in my leadership.
I had to facilitate this closure.
I had to support my employees.
I had to communicate to our audience.
And I felt just really confidentand supported and clear in my role

(26:23):
as CEO and my role as a leaderand facilitator of this moment.
However, comma, the chaos really was justsaying what it means to close.
I like the level of emotional responseother people had, people
who had not really worked with us, peoplewho had not, actively engaged,
they had deep, deep feelingsthat they kind of expressed at me

(26:47):
about this closure where they're like,no, you can't go.
Well, have you tried all of these things?
And it's like, yes, we've tried.
It's like,
and nobody has approached this closurewith any type of, nobody was flippant.
It wasn't necessarilythe first thing we tried,
but people were just like, well,no, it's right.
I had to deal with people's feelingsof failure where they felt like, well,

(27:08):
by closing this, like, what is it mean?
Like, how did you fail this?
Like, no, we we showed up in a lot of ways
and there ways in which the audienceand short back and that's just feedback.
That's information and data.We have to take.
But also again, the world changed.
So what people were willing to show upfor with their priorities in like 2021

(27:29):
when I started, was very differentfrom what it was in December of 2024
when we had to say, we have to let this go
and the chaos was deep and big and real.
You know, I realized that people's jobswere now going to be lost.
So wanting to take care of that team,
realizing that, like, we have resourcesthat we have to figure out where they go

(27:49):
and, you know, educational toolsand really thoughtful pieces, having them
seeing where they go
and also just being super clearthat, like, this is the right call.
And frankly, feeling affirmedonce this administration got in and was
is reaching the half, it is it is reachingand realizing this puts this in place.
I was like, that was a very hard momentand that was the right call.

(28:12):
And so I felt like thriving in chaosat that moment really was about
holding my leadership,being really clear about my my priorities,
taking care of the people who need to betaken care of, and also understanding
that this really hard,big thing has to end at this moment.
This is the safest, kindest,most thoughtful moment for it to end.
Because otherwise it'sgoing to end in a big fiery mess like,

(28:36):
oh snap, we don't have any money tomorrow,everybody.
I have to lay everybody offwith no warning
or we're going to owe somethingor it's going to be,
this other form of hardship and tragedyI can't even see, which is, you know,
what is happeningto a lot of places in the world.
And I it's like,okay, being able to kind of read

(28:57):
the tea leaves around like this,there isn't going to be support here,
and there are resourceswe can put somewhere else,
or at least the thing I can doif I can't save this thing,
the thing I can do is allow peoplea thoughtful and cushioned runway to exit.
Yeah.
And that that felt likeit was the most recent time it three.
This is the last time I truly thrived

(29:18):
in the middle of a mass,because that was a mass transit out there.
So that was really hard for you to like.
I remember like, just watching younavigate through that was like.
Really inspirational because I was like,this is a hard
this is a hard thing to have to do.
There's I don't know if I could haveI don't know
if I would have handled itas graceful as you are.

(29:38):
I'd have been in thereraising all types of hell.
They would have got it
would have been sick of meif you didn't hear me yelling.
All types of explicit livesout of this one.
I read, I hear you.
There's just nothing to. To be fair.
There's nothing. There's nobodyto raise all types of help with.

(30:00):
if I could have.
If there is somebodyto yell at to make that different.
If there was somebody to.
If there is, you know, if there's a placeI could have fallen care and out at
and like it would have shifted it,I can't promise I wouldn't have done that.
But that wasn't it. Yeah.
It really was like, it's about to get hardin a way that we can't manage.
And to go off on a small tangent,around that, like,

(30:24):
I think there is value in, in recognizingthe things you can't fight.
Come on now. Right.
Come on now.
So many missed.
Oftentimes people like are like,no we can do that.
Or we can Samantha or we canwe can overcome it.
And I was like,you can't actually overcome everything.
Some of it will just kill you.

(30:44):
Sometimes the overcoming isn't fighting.
It actually isn'tbeing the more dominating force.
It isn't conquering.
Sometimes winning is surviving.
be able to then go gather more resourcesand be able to come back fully resourced.
Right.
You know, I think we over prioritizedthis like imagery of a romanticized
the image of the like knight goinginto the fray, making the sacrifice play.

(31:07):
And I'm like, yeah,but what about all the people who have to
now survive and don't havethat knight to protect them?
Right.
It's like, okay.
Yeah, you went in there, you got in it,you got it.
You got to pause on that one.
Wow. I'm serious.
So what about like,now if you were the last stand?

(31:29):
Okay. Yes.
You get your trumpetsand you get your hero play and we all cry.
And then there is a moment, five minutesafter
where, like dragon you went toslay is still alive.
And now we don't even have a knightto fight.
you know, some poor farmer is goingto pick up, a crook and, like, go for it.
And I'm like, well,what about what about doing a thing

(31:51):
that allows these peopleto survive in this moment, to then
come back and fightwhen you're actually resourced?
I think that is a thing that specificallythe type of games that I play
have taught me the the concept of like,
okay, you fight this boss, you lose,
and now you have to go back and you haveto, like you said, gather resources.

(32:14):
You know, you know,we call it like grinding levels, but
that you're really gatheringthe resources that you need
that allows you to still kind of overcome,
especially in, you know, in video games
you need this like violent natureto like, overcome and beat this obstacle.
But the concept of like the sacrifice,sacrifice play is a thing

(32:36):
that I feel like a lot is going awaybecause of that, because of like,
okay, you,the hero is dead now we have this statue.
Okay?
But Farmer John is not a hero.
He's a farmer. He can become a hero.
But that's this.
That decision is now forced upon him,as opposed to,
like, let's gather our resourcesthat rebuild this town.

(32:58):
let's build stone dwellings as opposed toso many made out of fire,
out of wood, out of,like it really can be.
I think we live in a society that with toomany heroes, not enough farmers, right?
Everybody wants to be the duderunning and facing the dragon.
And you want the fanfare,the ever I say, but who's feeding people?

(33:19):
Who's protecting the children,who's making sure people are are closed
and dressed and housedand are not constantly
living under the threat of violenceor to be more specific,
if they are living under the threatof violence, who's actually willing
to participate in, going to say it,criminality to protect them.

(33:41):
right.
Who's putting themselvesbetween dragon as metaphor and people?
in real ways.
And somebody yes,
you can do a press conferenceand be like that dragon is dangerous.
But you can also maybe not say things
on the news and hide people in your house.
In your house.
Right? Right. Who's willing to do that?

(34:01):
Who's willing to do the thingthat you never tell anybody you're doing?
Because if you told people
you might go to jail,but you're actually having an impact
because so many people want accolades,they don't actually want protection.
They don't come on now.
Save people.
For y'all who don't know,Courtney is not three for three.
Okay, sorry I did. I

(34:23):
again recited this.
This is not where I thought we were going,but it is a real thing that I just.
There'sso many people who want to be the hero.
They want the hero praise, butthey don't actually want to save anyone.
They don't actuallywant to be inconvenienced.
They want they're out here
trying to, like, protect people for cloutas opposed to actually protecting people.
And his clout doesn't save people.
And look, I've said this and I will say itright now, and this is a real thing.

(34:47):
I want to be internet famous, right?
I want a touch of notoriety.
I like that I'm a big personality.
I want people to look at meand applaud. I do
right is I'm not even.
I'm no shame, right?
I like attention, it'swhy I started acting.
I like theater, I love being ableto stand in front of an audience

(35:08):
and say cool things and have people likeshe said that I do.
I like it, and I'm not going to pretend.
And you know, when I acceptwhatever award I get at some point, I'm
not going to really pretend to be humble,or if I do it for the likes, like,
know that you got a hit to Snoop Dogg,and I want to thank me
and I want to thank me because I wasit was like, I get it.

(35:29):
However,I will always do the thing I'm doing.
I don't work for clout.
I do clout things for clout.
I do work for work, if that is clear,like, you know, if I what
if I didn't want people to look at mewhen I started, when I started a podcast?
No. Right.
But like,I do the podcast for people to look at me

(35:51):
in a way that this is like consensualaudiences.
I've presented the thing,I'm asking you all to look at it.
I do other work,then I don't have to talk about that
I don't want to talk about,because that's not I do the work.
I do that work for the work.
I do that work to accomplish the thing,
to be in supportor to actually build community.
And I get frustrated at communitybuilding for clout.

(36:14):
I build community to build community
that's super real.
I got to follow that.
Yeah.
I'm not even 100% surehow I got to that space, but, you know.
But we're here now.
But we're here now, and so.
But yeah, like I said,
it really has to do with, like,thriving in chaos
where, like,I think people have to be really clear
about what it means to thrive for themwhat their relationship to the chaos is.

(36:38):
And being clear about why you're doing it.
Like, because are you generating chaos?
Because I know people who can besuper woke, super community
minded, talking about being downfor the cause and are unkind people.
Right.
And I'm like, right. And I'm like, so.
So you want to create thislike interpersonal chaos, you want people

(37:00):
to respect how you move in that movement,whatever movement that may be.
I don't understand how you can talkabout being for the community,
and you don't know how to be nice
to a person you're talking to how you knowsuch things as halfway crooks, man.
That's right.
And I'm just like talking aboutthe movement in the community or whatever.
And I'm not sayingyou have to be nice to everybody.
I'm not nice to everybody.

(37:20):
I just I sometimes see it's like,oh, you've tried to build the community,
but you look at people
who you feel like aren't strategic for youor who aren't doing something,
and all you have for them is like judgmentand or or cruelty or unkindness.
And I'm just like, you know,I think of you.
I think of my favorite Baldwinquote or one of many, which is like,

(37:41):
I can't believe what you saybecause I see what you do.
Like what?
Like, I can't believe what you say becauseI see what you do, and that is real.
I don't know, maybe seeing connected tothat is how also I thrive
in chaotic environments because I'm like,what do I what am I doing?
And am I doing it for the right reasonsor for reasons that are at the very least
clear and in
and aligned with my own integrity,even if other people have

(38:03):
different judgments about that?
And am I saying, are the things I'm sayingconsistent with that, or consistent
with how I want to show up in the world,even if they aren't?
Again,even if other people may not see it,
or even if, like with the commonor popular version of this thing
is, I again like attention,I, I'm not so I'm not judging anybody

(38:25):
who does that for attention.
But sometimes people do thingsfor attention
where they're like,no, I didn't do it for that.
And it's like, you,you absolutely did just own that.
Just be there and that's okay. It's okay.
In in a positive way.No problem. I know right?
hate seeing people who like
and this is not to anybody in general,but this is to like just the
the concept of black people like,who give a ton of money to like, displaced

(38:48):
people or, you know, people who are downon their luck strictly for the views.
And I'm like. What, why,
why for the views?
Like, why fake being a kind personwhen you could just be a kind person
and give them money?
I'm not saying don't give them the money.I'm not saying Right.
And frankly, if by doing this,you can generate more money

(39:08):
and give it to more people,
say that, name it to say out loudthat that's part of what you're doing.
But capitalism has has createdthese things where like, well,
if I do it for money, then it's fine.
Like it doesn't really requireany more question.
And I'm like, when is it real?
And I'm not saying, again,I'm not saying I want money.
If somebody wants to support usand pay for this podcast, I'll take it.

(39:30):
Not from everybody, though.
Yeah,not all good. My money is good money.
Not all money is good money.
And money is notthe only money is not the only thing.
Money is not even fully a real thing.
It has deep impact. It. But it is.
There are other thingsto want there than money.
that's why I want people to be backfor a different time.

(39:51):
You know, when people say like, you know,not all money, I don't need money.
All these things, a lot of people arelike, oh, that's because you got money.
No, no, no. Here.
We don't know, don't.
But I, and I will also recognize here.
When did you say broke five.
Broke. Absolutely. It's broke five.
Are you broke five.
Broke in a release. Got it. You got it

(40:15):
every.
And you know, we have our own privileges.We have resources.
There are things that we are ableand and supported in doing. And.
All right, I guess I am accidentallygoing to go on this rant around like,
let's people.
People use money as a placeholderfor the things they actually want.
And I found this.
I see this, particularlyI was working in fundraising

(40:35):
with like individual artists and to goback to like the work thing I like to do
is frequently people say they want moneyand what they really need is resources.
Or what they need is safety.
Frankly. Right.
Because when you ask people,what do you wanna use the money for?
After you say, okay, you want money? Yes.
What do you want?

(40:55):
Almost always the things
that they're looking to buyare things that increase their safety.
So somebody is like, oh, I want money
because I want to buy the fancy housethat nobody can take away from me.
That's actually that's safety,security, want it valued
or, you know, I want to not have to worryabout paying these bills.
Bills again ends up being safety security.
You want to be able to have your resourcesthere.

(41:16):
I want food or whenever I and evenwhen you go to I want a fancy car.
Is that something people want?
Almost always it'slike because I want social capital.
Like almost nobody.
I know I'm using absolutes, but almost
nobody is like, I want a fancy carthat I want to park in a garage.
I want nobody to look at.
Almost always, it's like I want the fancycar, because that gets me social capital.

(41:37):
That will get me a date that I wantor get me this popularity that I want.
And so what you actually wantis community.
You don't actually want money.
You want the things that money providesaccess to.
Right?
And capitalism has said that
money is one of the only waysto get those things.
But that isn't true.
You can have community,you can have connection,

(42:00):
you can actually have safety in waysthat aren't just about having money.
Money becomes a shortcutto get to those things.
Those things are valuable.
Right?
And capitalism has said that the only wayto now have safety,
security,community connection is by having money.

(42:20):
And that is a way that societyand capitalism have lied to us
about what's important
in many ways diminished our abilityto cultivate those things without money.
And it sucks because humans
are so good at building things.
We are actually good at community.
We're actually good at creativityand creating safety.

(42:42):
We are good at connection.
And we started to really receivethe consequences of what it means when we
when we are so focused on making moneythat we stop using those other skills.
Thank you for this rant.I get more stuff off this.
We'll pack up the soapbox.
I'm gonna wantto take a take a brief walk.

(43:04):
But no.
Like we want you want connection.
Nobody's like I want the Lamborghini.
Because again, I just want to stare at itwith nobody else.
People were like,
I want a Lamborghini because I wantI want to drive on South Beach.
I want, right,I want people to look at me.
I want people to respect and Revere me.
I want I want a baddie of any gender
next to me in this,in this new burkini gender neutral baddie

(43:28):
I want, I want my body of choicein this car next to me.
I want this fancy house to bring allthe people I care about to it or I want.
And it's like, oh,
the thing you actually wantis, again, community safety connection.
There are real resources that I getthat have to be that money has to get you.

(43:48):
But it didn't youit didn't have to be that way.
And if we really start thinking,how can I build these other things
in ways that aren't just about gettingmore money, aren't just about stacking
that paper, are just about,you know, cheese on the burger
like that up to the chicken loft.
Faith, that took last video.
Yes.

(44:08):
Corey White, how can I, like, build these other things?
And when you focus on building
those other things, you one can findlike so much more abundance.
Two, you can find that your skills
are more aligned, that like it's like,oh, maybe I don't have to sell everything.
Maybe I can actually just be a good friendand build community
that wayand throw you out to find like creativity.

(44:30):
You find that you have a healthier,I think, relationship to generating money
and knowingwhat place it has in your life, what place
capital has in your life, as opposed to itbeing the only thing you're focused on?
We got super deep on this one there.
I know it's like,I just asked you how you were doing.
You. It's real.

(44:50):
We got about.
But like, the stuff that we do, like,we talk like this
on the couch, you made it this long,welcome to the family.
Welcome So we're introducing a new segmentcalled Here's the thing.
Welcome to here'sthe thing where one of us
gets entirely too invested in somethingand the other one has to keep up.
It's deep dives, heart takes, and the law.
You didn't know you needed.

(45:12):
I've accidentally hit the here's
the thing on the section before, but,we're excited about this segment
as a means to kind of offerour it's not even hot takes,
but they are deep dives on thingsthat maybe nobody else cares about.
Like, I want to hope that
our previous, section

(45:32):
was about some very deep thingsthat I didn't know I was feeling happy to
write.
You got that out?
Yeah, it was, it was.
This all must be hit with the nine ninewhere he's like,
apparently that was a trigger.
All right.
That was right.
so here's the thing. Is.

(45:53):
Equally as passionate about stuffthat is not anywhere near as your.
That's. Yeah.
What I want to talk aboutis, is completely nonsensical
and not as deep,but very excited about it.
But we're happy to share with you.
So with that it. Tyrone.
Tyrone, what's your what's your thing?

(46:15):
So here's the thing.
Courtney and I have recently watchedthe predator killer of an animated movie,
which is perfect. Chef's kiss.
Amazing. It's by the same peoplewho made the prey movie.
If you haven't watched prey,also watch that.
But my thing is that the predator movies,all of them are important.
They might not all be good,but they are important.
They are important to the law.

(46:35):
They are important to the world
building of the predatorbecause the predator itself is a hunter,
their real namesare they where they come from?
Yeah, to a crime.
I may or may not be conceptualizinga video game based on this.
So I did a super deep dive.
But they are all so goodand so not all good.

(46:55):
But they are also importantbecause they push the law the next level.
They push the the concept of whata predator means, their tech,
their cultural significance,their historical significance throughout
specifically our planet.
But like the universe and solar system,But what I loved about predator killer
killers is not only how it was animated,which was flawless.

(47:17):
There is a 92nd fight scenethat lays waste to a bunch of people,
and it's beautifully done.
And it is. It's one camera.
I mean, it's a it's a 3D camera,so it's not a real camera, but it
it is one camera and it is,I think, a shot that should be dissected
and discussed when talking about film,not just animation, the moving forward,

(47:40):
and I love how the predators inthis are separate
and they are all distinct for the time
period they are represented,their particular set of skills.
Thank you very much.
Liam Neeson and the way they hunt.
This old killer of killersis separated into three particular, eras.

(48:01):
There is the era, the Viking,
the era of the samurai, and World War two,and all three of these hunters
fight separately in very distinct ways,specifically the World War two.
Hunter is the first hunter.
We see that primarily uses a aircraft
and does not have the, typical dreadlocksthat, other predators have.

(48:21):
I also know all the namesof the predators, which is the monde
or the zurcher,which is the first one, the shadow,
which is the one that takes placein Japan.
And the flying one is called the Baron,which I think is hilarious,
and I love because of the Red Baron.
I love animation, absolutely.
Yeah. Of course, his name is the Baron.

(48:42):
to not spoil so much of the the the movie.
It is on Hulu. It is very good.
I have watched itfour times since it's released.
And there is a momentwhere the people who survive these moments
end up on the on a planet.
I won't.
I don't know if it's the planet,but it's a planet that has been conquered
by the predators, the Aqua, they are thentold to fight to the death, and they are.

(49:05):
There's so many different things,but it's not so much a spoiler.
But at the end they show thislike Raiders of the Lost Ark style prison,
where they show all these different peoplewho have seemingly defeated a predator.
And so I have been deep diving and tryingto figure out who is in this prison.
Which is it?

(49:25):
Which it's
no good to know, but are you mappingthe prison that you shop in the prison?
I'm shopping the prisonbecause I need to know what we're doing
for the next movie, because I'm apparentlyon the production team. So.
This is just research.
They're going to call me.It's gonna be fine.
this is a question to end commentsto those who enjoy the predator
comic books, who enjoy the predatorlore of the predator lore,

(49:47):
who do you think would be in this prison?
This is a prison of peoplewho have defeated a predator in any way,
who throughout time and has been frozen.
I had a stupid thought, and I'm sorry,my question.
My first thought is like, who has defeateda predator numerous times?
And I'm going to give you one.

(50:07):
Mario. Mario.
Okay.
No, you talk about somebody
who has been faced with manya predator. Yes.
It's just there's one primary one.
But I was like,who is in this super vast space?
I think in therethere's a tiny little frozen thing
featuring one unkillable Italian plumber.

(50:29):
Damn it, one Mario.
Mario,probably next to him, a Luigi Mario.
frozen in time.
Gotta look ready to come out onwhatever planet you got ready.
Much quiet I love itI think Mario Mario is in this warehouse.
Dutch from the original predatoris in this warehouse.
Shout out to Arnold Schwarzenegger.
But also Danny Glover from the secondpredator movie is in this warehouse.

(50:54):
whether he's with it or not.
But I can tell you,he's pissed that he's warehouse.
So, yeah, that's my deep dive.
I know rankings, I know, I knowtypes of lore that we can get super real,
but we don't need to get that deepif we do this,
you know, this segment hitspeople like this, I'll bring it back.
I'll do A Predator part two for sure.
So my here's the thing is, actually,I will name about something

(51:15):
I don't know that much about.
know enough, however, I feel so stronglyabout it, it deserves some time.
deserves. I have deep opinions.
by by the deep dive is againless informational, more emotional.
And I'm also still right.
So if I were to talk about my deep diveor my here's the thing is about

(51:37):
the first family of comic books,the Fantastic Four.
And why I hate them, I,I hate Fantastic Four.
I have a deep,just unfettered loathing for them
because I think conceptuallyare one of worst written groups
in comic book history,because are an examination

(51:58):
of four prototypes,and the four prototypes are smart,
strong, angry,slash impulsive, and girl right.
And part of why I think FantasticFour movies keep failing
is because foundationally,they have these notes
that they have to hit,but they aren't complex.
And I also understand understand

(52:19):
the history of comic books, understandingthe things that need to read visually.
get why have full understanding of whythey aren't necessarily complex.
Right? Like you need, read the stretchy.
You create this visual distinctionif you have the thing rock also big strong
visual distinction.
You get tiny storm, right?
Fiery, impulsive.
So sometimes it's angry,sometimes it's impulsive.

(52:40):
Depends on what writerwants to engage with that day.
And then girl, since stormwho whose whole power is literally
that they don't have to draw herwhen she's inconvenient.
She literally disappearsand she gets real and
it's just like you're like, oh,what happens?

(53:02):
Well, she's here to, like, serveas this emotional center.
She takes care of her brother,she takes care of her husband,
then she gets hairy and Invisiblewoman does disappear.
We know she's in. Get out.Get her out of the way.
Right, girl? Go.
It's like it just becomessuch a clear manifestation of, like.
All right, there are three types of men,and they are the smart men,

(53:25):
strong men, and the angry, impulsive men.
And that's it.That's all they get to do, right?
so is always like, focused.
And he's like, guys, maybe
we don't need to give you all like WaltCleaver era, right?
And then the thing it's clobberingtime like this is this is a complex
individual is also dealingwith the fact that he's a giant rock man

(53:48):
living in the world.
can't.
Can he be sad about that?
No, he's angry because strong is it.
That's the that's all he has to do.
And then you have Johnny Storm who's justout here literally fiery like literally.
It's not a metaphor.
He's in fact, on fire and as a human torch
and I'm like, there isn't subtlety,there isn't engaged isn't.

(54:11):
And yes,I recognize that we've expanded too.
And I understand she has force fieldsand she can be strong, but it's also still
such a gendered trope because she isliterally just the protector, right?
Her job is either to disappearto keep everybody else safe.
Like that's.
Great, right?
Like that is the woman's jobin this space.

(54:32):
reason I also say it's girl because it'snot woman like she's not really presented.
Yes, she has a husband,but she's still presented
in this, diminished gendered way.
And as you know, I was a girl.I am now a woman.
I understand nothing against girls,but it does feel like she's just like.
Push off tothe side is just female feelings.
And when they're inconvenient her.
If she can't be usefulthe sense of creating a force field

(54:55):
so they don't have to experience anything,they literally disappear her.
She is in fact invisible.
And I'm going to name I will be watchingthis new Fantastic Four.
It does seem interesting
I hope Pedro Pascal and his charismacan just like push through the concept.
I hope maybe somebody has figured it out,but almost all the adaptations of film

(55:18):
adaptations have had super
charismatic people who have been ableto lead other franchises.
looking at you, Michael Jordanlooking at you, Chris Evans.
Yeah. Oh yes.
You know what I'm saying.
Like these are peoplewhose charisma can carry a lot.
the fact that they haven't been ableto successfully launch
this franchise to me shows a fundamentalissue with the core of the franchise.

(55:41):
And and the characters like with it'sbecause again, core characters
are just smart, strong, angry girland you can't write compelling.
Maybe somebody can.
It's hard to write compellingdrama narratives
around that when the archetypesyou're dealing with are, that one smart.

(56:02):
So he's going to be smart at it that one'sangry, so he's going to be angry at it.
And that was a strong.
So he's going to have to fightsomebody strong.
then the girl is going to disappear.Like that is movie.
And somehow we have to makeall of those things, viable.
And again, I believe somebody can do it.
I will say I don't think anybody has yet.
And somebody, maybe a wonderfulaudience member is going to come in

(56:24):
and you're going to point outto me, the comic book where this works.
Sure.
believe you. And easier to do in comics.
I'm not saying writing comics is easy.
I think it's easier to do in comics
when you don't have to have a whole personwhere you literally have the panels,
you have the image to tell the story,and you don't have any of the other stuff.
You get to pick exactly what's included,which can also happen in film.

(56:44):
But I think they fall apart on filmbecause you have whole people
acting around them.
You have things that they have to respond
to, and they have to just be more complexin how they engage in the world
they do in a comic bookpanel or comic book.
somebody may have successfully been ableto do it in a comic.
They are, again,the first family of comics.
So I understand their popularityand also ultimately,

(57:06):
think they are really, really hardto write in a moving an interactive medium
because it's really hard to writea compelling story with a smart, strong,
angry girl.
You know, they say, man, something's wrong
if everybody fails to test some fromthe test, something's wrong with the test.
and you're telling
you're telling me None of those castscould really be compelling.

(57:26):
And we got two moviesout of the Chris Evans.
Once get two movies out of the ChrisEvans one Captain America.
You told me you can't.You couldn't carry this film.
Usually Chris Evans Chris kind of carrieseverything.
Chris Evans carries commercialabout parking a car.
Oh my God, it's not back
he could charisma his wayinto a commercial about parking a car.

(57:48):
And he could notyou couldn't get a Fantastic Four.
That was like interesting at it.
You can't I it's the material.
think fundamentally there's a problemwith the material to the cast is solid.
Jessica Albert, Michael Chiklis.
say I mean Toby's
is she is again my my issue.
You're on something is theis the source material right.

(58:11):
It is the source material.
And againI'm also not like hating on the writers.
just I think to stay quote unquote true
to the core of what the FantasticFour is, is there's not enough core there.
And the movies can either be accurate inquotes or good, right, and talk about it.
And I think our movieshave been more accurate than good.

(58:35):
And if somebody can hit that,like Christopher Nolan, Batman Reset,
where you get the core of it and can writea compelling story, it can be great.
This next 1st May be that it may be.
I mean, it is in the Marvel machine.
Now, they understandthe core of many of the movies.
They understand the type of moviethose characters are in.
I believe in it.
also saytheir success rate is not 100% now.

(58:57):
It's not a success rate is high.
Definitely more wins than lossesby a large margin.
At But they ain't 100%. It'snot all the way. Here's the thing.
I hate the fantastic work that is.
That's really right. It's it's greatthat a lot of Ted talks today.
And I really enjoy being here.
On the receiving end of that.
I So moving forward, this is ourthis is slowly becoming
my favorite segment of of the show,which is work hard, play hard.

(59:22):
Quick tips to get you through the week
with a little more strategy,a little more joy and just enough miss.
And today's thingwe're going to talk about,
which kind of continues our,our first conversation is about balance.
So where are you struggling tofind balance between your work and play?
I am struggling to find balance
between work and playbecause I am decidedly not a workaholic.

(59:42):
But I do like work.I like problem solving.
And so particularly in balancing
working for myself,working with some orgs,
and having some creative endeavors,you know, like this podcast, like.
I'm findingand because I, I enjoy some of the work
it's hard to just find balance
where it's like, no am I, amI always working even a little bit like,

(01:00:05):
you know, if I'm scrolling, on TikTok, IGor even YouTube frequently.
I'm scrolling like work related things.
What is a good app system?How does this video look?
How are these peoplepromoting their podcast?
You know, and so it's still likework light, even if it's not work.
Or it's like I want to try,
you know, talkabout being a kind of frustrated designer.

(01:00:25):
It's like,what would how would I make this happen?
You know?
Or you even talked about, designing the t shirts again.
Let us know
if y'all are interested in t shirts,but like playing around with t shirts.
Just to see what would a t shirt designI like be.
And it's like, yes, I'm doing that for me.
And it is really, stimulatingjust to think about
what it could look like,but it's also like, still work.

(01:00:47):
Like, is it,is it play or am I still working?
And so I struggle to kind ofdo something that doesn't have a work
related or product related pay off,So that's clearly genetic then.
Okay, good to know.
It's I mean, exact same thing.
I'm always like I'm either always writing,which is just fun for me.

(01:01:11):
Or I'm scrollinglooking at like 3D techniques
or like plugins or,looking up tutorials and stuff.
And I'm always new said work light.
And I was like, oh no,
oh no, that's me.
I have no real work play balance.
Like especially,
you know, talking about last episode,my inspiration comes from my play.

(01:01:32):
I'm always kind of working.
I'm always kind of thinking, and,you know, I've never been able
to really turn my brain off specificallywhen it comes to creating something.
I'm always thinking of new ways to create
or new ways to express my creativity,whether that be through,
like animating throughcreating project treatments

(01:01:53):
for shows that don't exist yet or like,you know,
conceptualizing movies that I want to makeor posters, it's always something.
And I'm, I've never really thoughtabout it as work
until 4.5 minutes ago.
When I was like, that sounds maybe I am.

(01:02:15):
I'm working all the time.
Like I get people who have work lifebalances, but
and I'm going to say this,this might be controversial.
I don't really want one.
I really kind of enjoy the fact thatI'm always thinking of something creative.
I'm always pulling from the world,whether it's on fire or not.

(01:02:35):
I'm creating and and building.
I'm always moving forwardtowards something,
whether that's something exist or not.
I'm always moving forward,whether it's tutorials or or ideas
or you know, I'm looking at,like you said, like Instagram shorts or,
or Instagram Reels or YouTubeshorts or TikToks and I'm like,

(01:02:55):
oh, this was a cool concept.I saw somebody do this.
Let me save this. Let me go back.
Now, I've done a extreme 4.5hour deep dive on embroidery in gaming.
So knowing like also share that with me.
Like I.
I'm in that weird space where I'm like,you know, I do.
I really want to find a balancewhere I'm not inspired.

(01:03:19):
And not activelylooking towards this inspiration,
which feels, limiting to me in a way.
That's real. Yeah. It's I like.
What did I hear?
I heard and something that I relate to,which is like kind of a deep curiosity,
a deep like,
I don't want to say consumption,even though that's probably the word for
you're just like,
I just like to experience and respond towhatever is happening the world around me.

(01:03:42):
And so in some ways, it's always work.
But it's always creativity.
I'm always like looking at the worldor like seeing,
like trying to make connections, tryingto, like, figure out the puzzle piece.
Like, what is that?
How did that work?
Why, why,why are those two things going this way?
What is the theme that I'm seeing?
Like a lot of pattern recognition.
And I like experiencingthe world that way.
I like receivingall of that kind of stimulus

(01:04:04):
and turning it into something,even if it's just the thing
that's like sitting in the back of my headfor a minute, waiting for its moment.
So yeah, it is a balance between it's,you know, work and work late
or creative play that also can actuallymanifest into something really well.
I like creative play. That's nice.
That feels less
constrictive to like, workingand you know, hearing the factory bell go.

(01:04:27):
All right.
So the question that I want to ask is,what's a surprise that you got
from this week, No I think that is and I'm in deep thoughts about it.
But yeah.
Like what is something where you're like,
oh, this worked out differentlythan I thought it would be, or, Yeah.
In my, like, in trying to find balance.
Like, where,where do I find the surprises? Right.

(01:04:47):
And that's, It's a great question.
I'm not sure I have a thoughtful answer,but that doesn't
stop me from answering it.
one. So at one of my
jobs in the last week, I had to really,like, think through my work plan right.
I was surprised by how positivelyactivating that exercise was for me,
where it was just like, okay,these are this, like at the top of it.

(01:05:08):
It was like,these are the roles, objectives.
Like, this is the problemthat my job is trying to solve.
And then it was, here are the projectsor the things that need to happen.
And like here's this list of those thingsand here are some tasks for it.
But it was justit felt really, generative
because it was like, oh, these areall the things that I could be doing.

(01:05:28):
These are the things that we're going topurposely we're going to focus on doing.
This is what the task needs.
I felt really aligned. And the clarity.
And I was like, oh, this is I need tobuild more of these for different things.
But just being able to say like,this is the order and these are the things
that like may not get as much attention,but they are on my list.
These are the thingsthat I'm really focused on right now.

(01:05:50):
And this is how I'm doing it.
And it was, again, really activatingfor me to be able to think about it.
And just to set focusinglike this is the plan.
And and then being conversationwith my colleagues about it
because they were also ableto have insight into like,
okay, what's Courtney doing?
But also, what does this mean to you?This is what this means to me.
And I am somebodywho is super motivated by clarity.

(01:06:11):
Like, I feel like my brain does a thingwhere it can hold a bunch of chaos,
a bunch of different thingsin them, in ways.
And the metaphor,the way I express it really is.
It's like things are moving in in my headand all these different shapes,
and all of a sudden they like, stop.
They sit in a sit
I wish I had a better metaphor,but in some ways it's like the old school

(01:06:32):
popcorn popper, Right.
Where it's just
the kernels are just like popping,popping, popping,
popping, popping, popping,and it's like all this stuff.
And if you just wait long enough,they all settle into the bowl,
And that is how problemskind of appear to me.
I had a bunch of information.
We'd been working, and,and they were all up there
figuring outwe were trying to figure out what it was.
And then I just got to sit for a momentand think it through, and it's settled.

(01:06:55):
And all the popcorn was in the bowl,and I was like, yeah, this is it.
It surprised mebecause I wasn't fully expecting
that level of clarityor it feels like alignment.
love that I was going to end myI had a follow up question
and you answered it because I was like,what does that feel like?
because I'm sure not only like mentallythat feels good, but
I feel like physically and,and spiritually that something settles.

(01:07:17):
Yeah, I for me, alignmentIt really it feels like a pitchfork.
Like, I wish I could explain it,but it feels like in my body,
it is a stillness of like this.
It like hums for a second. Real.
Like this is the right path,as opposed to feeling like,
I know, dissonant, where you're just likethat doesn't doesn't feel right.

(01:07:37):
The alignment isn't there.
The pitchfork hasn't quite met note yet.
It's not something eight.
Something insomething is something in. Right.
then we get clarity it's not
always the right answer, but I'm like, oh,this is the answer I can move through.
This is where it like, it is a moment oflike things just kind of stop.
They settle.
tend to feel alignment,like in my heart, literally, you know,

(01:08:00):
people talk about where they feel itin their body, in their variety of places.
And like,I feel the tension in my shoulder
sometimes I feel like, oh, my,my shoulders are at my ears.
All right.
We got to let that go.
when it when things sing,it's like there's just the stillness
and it's not quite as profound.
It doesn't feel likelike my heart stops or anything,
but it is feel like this clarityof this note that's like right one.
love that you said when things singthat like.

(01:08:22):
Yeah, that really resonated with me
when I was like, oh yeah, definitelysounds like a like like the, you know, the
cacophony of a chorus and then everythingjust kind of hits perfectly.
So yeah.
So it was just surprising
because I didn't think a documentabout, like,
this is what my job looks likewas going to inspire that.
But it did. That's awesome.
And I love that it was somethingthat was not very left brain,

(01:08:44):
but very more like analytical right brainthat brought you this creative clarity,
which is very
as you know, I love I love the conceptbecause you can do this.
I have no idea how to be both analyticaland creative at the same time.
It's fantastic to watch this.
And Iappreciate your ability to just like,
conceive a project and just like make itlike I definitely am more

(01:09:06):
and want to say the word thoughtful,but I it's I don't that sound to know it.
No. And I totally know what you meanbut I mean yeah, but I'm like, it's
going to sit in my headfor a lot longer than it is yours.
And I love that because you're like,no, I just I made it.
I just it's not quitethink it, speak it, but it is.
But it's close.

(01:09:27):
I saw the thing and I just made it.
Here'sthe new arc that I just made overnight.
And I'm like,I've spent five days on t shirts.
Nobody's asked for just thinking and,and I tend to sit
until I find that alignment like I, I itit is like to go back
to the popcorn metaphor
or even the, you remember that old schoolchildren's toy where it was like,
a clear dome and a bunch of actual, like,tiny balls in it?

(01:09:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.As you put it, like.
Yeah. Right.And it just pop all over, right?
Like I tend to throw ideas in my head
like that, and I literally feel like thembouncing around.
Or it's like,is this the right note there?
And then again, there's the momentwhere, like, settle or the one I feel like
makes it into the shoot and comes outand it's like, this one's ready.

(01:10:13):
I've gotten good at sitting in that space.
I'm just like,oh no, they're not, they're not.
Nothing's settled.
Nothing is picked up. You had it.
You can throw this right? Right.
You get a little cookie,you know, throw some more things in there
and then like let them see.
And then sometimes, like two of the ideasbounce off, just like, okay, wait.
Now eat this. Now they're going to merge.This is the right thing.
And then it keeps movinguntil the one like emerges.

(01:10:35):
It's like it slaps. It's like,that's okay.
Now we go into that one.
And so I tend to sit in that bouncyball space for a long time,
or at least long enough.
And then I'm like, oh, this is the ideathat's worth that, that either
spirit or intuition or the ancestorswant me to, like, run with a little bit
and then I'll push it a little bitand they're like, still not quite there.
So that goes back in the goesback in the ball.

(01:10:55):
It jumps around and comes out.
And so then my ideas can take a while.
But I also I'm like oh no it's
just not I've I've acceptednot ready as a state of being.
Okay.
And now on my so yes, yes.
I don't think enough people have the stateof being of not ready.
Like there is the which is not to say

(01:11:16):
that like don't put it outbecause it's not ready.
I'm not saying that.
And I'm not saying the progressover perfection concept.
I'm saying that like, you have an idea
and the kind that, you know,whatever that idea is.
And I am also very much, proponent
of doing this, whereI just make cool, we're going to do this.
And, but all you have is like the shell

(01:11:39):
and with no substanceand no creative thought behind it.
That then causes frustrationbecause you're like, this was not now.
You've spent, know, creative energy,
whether that's physicalor mental or spiritual,
you've spent this energy towardsthis thing that has not that is not ready,
it's not ready because it's not good.
It's just not ready.

(01:12:00):
And I think a lot of peoplewho start things, included
get there and then are frustratedand then don't do a thing
that they want to do because they're like,well, my ideas aren't working.
They're like, no, they're just not ready.
Like, you still have to let them stew.
We've been working on epiphanyfor ten years,
and we've only just started feeling like,oh, maybe we can show people this now.

(01:12:23):
like we have projects we're working onthat nobody's going to see for some time
because it's not ready.And that doesn't mean because.
And because it's not ready.
That does not meando not work on that. Right? Right.
Because it's not ready.
It doesn't mean that it's not doneor it's not going to be good or anything
like continue to work into and,and and completely take

(01:12:45):
perfection out of your conversationthat you have with yourself creatively.
a thing that I still struggle withand it takes me a long time to get there.
But there are moments where I'm very muchlike, oh, this just needs to be done.
go back to the ideathat I'm going to start posting videos
more and having conversationsabout the show and, and potentially other
shows and services that we provide, as dostudios, to just be like,

(01:13:09):
this is what I'm doing, andthis is how I would like to get better.
the idea of just being ofjust letting it cook
and sometimes you gotta let it cook infront of people.
Yeah, sometimes the added ingredientis other people's input.
Yes. Right.
Sometimes, likeand that that balance can be hard
where you're just like okay, is it readyfor other people is it ready for it?

(01:13:30):
I won't even say that I'm going to changethat to is it.
It's not.
Is it ready for other people?
Does this need other people okay.
Because other because a lot of timesyou're like, well is it ready?
It's not ready to be shown.
It's like it is.
It actuallyit needs somebody else to see it.
It needs somebody who's not you
who hasn't looking at it every dayjust to just say it's.
And you can be like,look, I know it's not.
It's not ready for public consumption,but it does need somebody else's input.

(01:13:52):
It does just need somebody else to look atand be like, you know what?
This is how I feel.
Is it ready? Is it not ready like it?
It needs other people
and I feel like I've tried to just startbeing more like, you know what,
it needs other people. It'sI have to let it go.
I have to just be like,what is your feedback?
What is your energy?What do you think about it?
And then I can.
Use discernment to understandwhat is the feedback

(01:14:13):
I want to incorporate.
What does the feedbackI want it to change.
I want to change the thing, but I need it.
Sometimes you just need the feedback.
You need to know something that's working.
I mean, they call it a releasefor a reason.
Yeah, you gotta let it.
You gotta let it go and you gottaenjoy you like you have to bring that in.
Like eveneven small releases are victories.

(01:14:34):
And and you take that feedback and youthen you let it cook more it's hard.
It's extremely hard.
Especially if something that you've
you've put your like blood sweat and tearsfinancially.
You if you have other peoplewho are also backing you and you're like,
well, I wantI don't want to disappoint them.
As you like to say, disappointment.I never killed nobody.
I it's not fatal.
It is so, so like it's it's

(01:14:55):
extremely important to let things cook
and and you know, the moreI'm talking about this, the more
I'm talking to myself, the ingredientI believe that we need right now
is people is people to see this,to give feedback to, to engage with.
Okay,I'm going to take this leap now. Great.
You got in there.
Y'all got there. Yeah. No. Yeah.

(01:15:16):
Let people see it.Let people experience what you got.
ask your own question,she didn't quite answer.
What is the thing you've donethat has surprised you?
This, to be either, a balance or.
Yeah,something that surprises you creatively.
The thing that surprised mecreatively was watching predator.
Killer of killers like,I enjoy as a fan of animation and

(01:15:37):
and obviously the predators,watching this
completely shifted my ideaof, like, looks and designs
and what you can do in 3Dthat wants me to be better.
And like,I'm sure it's a little bit of that,
like not competitive naturewith other people, but competitive nature
within myself.
Like I want to be the best I can be,

(01:15:57):
and watching other people be really greatmakes me want to be greater.
And that really surprised mebecause I was not expecting to have this,
like emotional reaction to this.
Like, I kind of have the same reaction
to predator killer killersthat I have with sinners.
Like it feels like this was a shift in mean animator and a filmmaker
where like, there's
before I watched this movieand now everything afterwards

(01:16:19):
is going to be like, well,I was really inspired by this,
and I was not expecting that to be a thingwhere I, know,
I've watched it four timesbefore we started recording, which is on.
So like,
it's it's now kind of and use it like yousaid, consumption is strong,
but it's now becoming like a very integralpart of my creative process.

(01:16:41):
It's funny that you never quiteknow what the thing is.
Where you like that is activated.
A part of my brain, you've inspired meto share like one of the things
it's a book and I never knowif I'm recommending or not.
And the book is, haunted by ChuckPalahniuk.
It is. I'm not familiar with this.
It is a book.

(01:17:02):
It is. It is clearly very good.
I want to be.
I want to be really clear.
I know it's a masterpiece.
And there are very few booksthat are like it.
But it's a book that I readkind of on accident.
And mom had it.
Is it a horror book?How do I describe haunted?
And why I'm bringing it up is it is a bookI read probably a decade,

(01:17:23):
probably longer. It'sI probably was still living at home, so.
Could have been.I read this book 20 years ago.
I can't remember when it came out. Right.
it's a bookI think about like 3 or 4 times
a year in a way that, like,I probably sell off into the distance.
And just like,how did he do that? What happened?
Yeah. I got a couple movies.
I do that with you rightwhere you're just like, just in it.
And so the book is abouta writer's retreat.

(01:17:44):
So these people who signed upto a writer's retreat
from a message board,like when I message a physical
bulletin board where somebody was like,do you want to change your life?
Do you want to focus on your writing?
Come to this retreat.
And I apologizeif I'm summarizing it kind of incorrectly.
And so it has the structuregroup of people up going in,
they get locked into this theatersix months

(01:18:05):
and they've they've gotten rid ofthey come with like, just a suitcase,
you know, things that they need.
And the idea is that they're onthis writer's retreat for six months.
They're kind of they're literally trappedin this building.
They all consented to be trappedin the building.
structure has these kind of like it'sthese weird structures in that
some of the chapters are stories written
by the characters in the writer's retreat.

(01:18:26):
Some of the chapters are narrative.
What's happening to them in thein the writer's retreat.
Okay, okay.
It's a kind of similar structureto Watchmen,
the graphic novel where you had likeyou had the short story within the story.
you had Rorschach discussingwhat's happening.
So. Right.
You had his letters.
You also had the actual, parable store.
Yeah.
Not the parable.
The, the story about the the doomed pirate.

(01:18:49):
That that story.
And then you had the narrative haunted.
It's similar in that there's a narrativeof like what's happening to them.
They're the short stories they're making.
And each characterbecause there's so many, each
character has its own kind of perspective.
And in the
this isn't necessarily spoilers,but I'm gonna say like part of retreat
is that they all they want to be writers,but they actually want to be famous.
And so one of the things that they'reall planning to write in their head

(01:19:13):
is the storyof how they survive the six months
And so each of them,or at least a few of them,
start sabotaging their suppliesbecause they want the story to be better.
They want the narrative to be better, butthey aren't doing this in communication.
So where somebody's sabotaging the foodand somebody sabotaging the power,
or that that the Hvac,somebody is sabotaging something else.

(01:19:35):
So now all of a suddenthey have three sabotage things.
So like the amount of time they can stayhere has gone from like six months
down to four, whatever.
But nobody actually knowsnobody's communicating.
And they're also all not great people.
And so they're trying to do this thingbecause they want the story
to get more harrowing, so thenthey can become famous, at the end of it.

(01:19:56):
And, or alsothey can be the one to survive.
And then they get to sell their story,because the the fewer people who make
it means the more moneyfor the people who do make it.
this interesting meditation on on fame,
on creativity, on just people.
And, you know, it's polynya.
So it gets weird, it gets weirder
and darker than the things I'm describing.

(01:20:18):
But I think about that booka lot, partially because I,
some of my takeaways really are like,what are people willing to do for fame?
Like they all could have?
They all were ableto take six months off of their lives
to just write their book,but they didn't want to.
They didn't actually do that.
They needed the retreat, and they wantedto harm people in the process
because they needed the story to sell.
It wasn't actually about writing the book,it was about being famous.

(01:20:39):
And so, like, what are those costs?
There are also some really great storiesindividually.
Like a lot of the shortstories are semiautomatic,
autobiographical for the characters.
And so you learn about, like,what they're willing to do.
Some of them are likejust kind of outright criminal.
Some of them are just really, are are insecure or are harmful, like,
they're very few goodpeople, in the story,

(01:21:02):
and so it really becomes an examinationon like who people are,
what their creativity is, whether they'rewilling to invest in creativity.
That's less than actuallyjust focusing on being creative.
So like, that'sone of the things that happens.
Like they could have just
if you could takesix months off of your life
to come and write in this retreat,you could have
you could actually just do thatoutside of this.
But no, you had to come to this thing.

(01:21:23):
You needed this event
and you had to sabotage it so that like,there is a more interesting story
as opposed to like using your creativityto create a more interesting story, right?
You could have imagined it.
And like sothat's kind of one of the things like,
why are you generating hardship
to make a storywhen you could actually generate a story?
And there are I'm surethere are other analysis about it.
But, I got here just in thinkingabout like, the things that like,

(01:21:44):
it's a book that has surprised me becausewhen I read it, I was super compelled.
It's really well written. It's good.
And every time I read it orI haven't even read it again.
But every time I think about it, I'm like,this is a book
that hasn't left me 20 yearsand am I recommending it?
I don't know, it is hard and one of hismost famous stories comes out of it.

(01:22:04):
The story of. It's called guts.
And the preface to the gutsis how many people have vomited
when he's read this story out loud,like the first few pages of that story
arc, him recounting the waysin which him reading
it has caused people how many people vomitand or pass out like that?
It's weird.
It's so I just read the synopsis of guts.

(01:22:26):
We can't say that out loud, but that's.
I will say, but it's impossible.
It's a story you can fight by itself.
But that comes out of this collectionand it is.
But like, this is why I sayI'm not sure I'm recommending it.
it's it's a book that I can't sayI'm recommending, and it's a book that
I think, about several times a yearbecause what what what what happened?

(01:22:49):
How did you write this? What went on?
are you able to write severalshort stories featuring various
writing styles, like it's a it's athat I think everybody should read
and then forget about,but then we should all talk about like,
I don't know how to explain itother than that.
yeah, just you talking about, like,not necessarily being, anticipating,
predator killer of killers, like,impacting you even though it was there.

(01:23:12):
Like,this is, this is a piece that impacted me.
Partly because it was John I never went,never would have really engaged with
because, like, it's kind of a horror book.I think that's why mom bought it.
Yeah. The I mean, I took it from her.
I vividly remember the cover. Yeah.
It's a very striking book. Yeah.
And it also celebratedits 20th anniversary May 3rd.
So that is nice.
So yeah. That's it.
So but yeah, being a piecethat I was just so surprised by, that has,

(01:23:36):
I think actually fundamentally changedhow I experience art.
And so it's clearly a bookI liked, but I'm never
I can never feel comfortable to be like,I liked it. Yeah.
And like it changed me as a person, did I?
And and it is good.
I recognize it as a masterpiece. DidI like it?
I 20 years later, I still don't know.
I still I still don't know.

(01:23:58):
Hilarious.
Yeah, yeah.
20 years later I'm still like, didI like it?
I finished it,I different for having read it.
He is very talented.
Like I don't that's not enough.
There's not enough word.
There's not enough word thereto describe my experience with this book.
So hilarious I did.

(01:24:19):
I realize that's my another accidentaldeep dive.
So good when my mom, you know, if you if,But since Courtney
can't do it, I'm going to do it.
I'm going to recommendthat you read haunt haunted.
Haunted by Chuck Palahniuk.
Palahniuk. Yes.
And you commentand let us know how you feel about it.
If you read it already, let let us know.

(01:24:40):
You're right.
If you have if you are squeamish,do not read it.
If you are squeamish,do not read this movie.
Do not read this.
This is not this is not a beach.
Read it is not.
It can be.
depends on how you like your beach read.
But Go into it
loins fully girded, like it is not.
This is not a casual read. Yes.

(01:25:03):
Fully girded loins fully girded.
Don't go in casual, okay?
This is not for play. Play.
You gotta. You gotta want it.
And it is worth it.
You will.I think you will learn something.
But it is one of those booksthat is like, I.
I see myself in a person, one of them,and I do not like it.
I am.

(01:25:24):
I wouldn't make those choices, but I alsocan kind of understand those choices.
And that makes meneed to be a better person.
Like.
I like oh no.
Yeah.
Where you're just like,I understand how you got there
and the fact that I understandhow you got there.
Am I broken? Like, what is wrong with me?

(01:25:45):
You know, because again,people are not making positive choices.
yeah, but it's it's fantasticpiece of art is it's great.
Great.
So I guess, you know, just toto bring it back to work hard.
Play hard. I know that was a tangent.
I appreciate youall traveling with us on that.
I want to say that like,
I don't know, my kind of play hardrecommendation is step out of your genre.

(01:26:06):
Try something that you thinkyou wouldn't engage with and like.
Try to look for recommendationsin that space that are not
what you would normally like,just to see what you learn about you.
that explores really like you knowsometimes it can be hard I think you know
we're talking about this,we're talking about balance right.

(01:26:27):
What it means said work hard play hard.
Right.
But sometimes as we talked
about as people who kind of workand then have work light like not as much
play a way to play is to go into a place
where you know that this is not going to.
I don't know, kind of stimulatethe things that you normally like.

(01:26:49):
And so going into a space,
into an experience with some type of mediawhere the the practice isn't,
Getting that same type of dopamine releaseor the practice isn't doing the thing
you like with the practicehere is like, what?
What happens to me when I'm in a genreI don't like?
What what is my creative experience?
Or how do I feel when I'm experiencingengaging with something

(01:27:11):
that is outside of my wheelhouse?
What is something I can learn fromthis as a practice?
And so, yes, it's still kind of it'sa little bit of work where you're like,
I know I'm watching this, not
or experiencing this or reading thisbecause it's not what I normally do,
but what do I learn aboutwhat's happening here?
What is something I can connect with?
yeah, I, I've gotten I've gotten nothing.
I got no notes on that.
Keep it out. Yeah.
So yeah,

(01:27:32):
one of the questions I liketo ask is like,
what is my bodyfeel like when it's not good at something?
Like, we're so good at engaging with thethings that we are that we are good at.
Like what is what is newnessfeel like on me?
How do I experience it?
And how can I hold that space,
to bring up centers one more time,
I think of, the the villain when hewhen Ryan Coogler was talking about

(01:27:56):
his inspiration for the villain, it'slike, oh, yeah, that's from Puss in Boots.
What? Oh, yes. Yeah.
What do you mean?
Like you're like where that.
No, that was that was scary.
And I love that.
And so part of your inspirationfor how the villains
look or move of the worldcame from Puss in Boots.
And if you haven't seen Puss in BootsLast Wish,

(01:28:19):
you're missing out.
It's so good.
Death as a villain is terrifying,and he's the big bad wolf.
I have not makes it even better.
Which, yeah, I have to watch it. And so.
But I'm like, you never knowwhat's going to inspire you necessarily.
So stepping into a spacethat is unfamiliar

(01:28:41):
or feels like it might not be relevant toyou just to experience
what newness feels like, what what
what I don't like, this feels like.
how can you articulate it?
And what does it do in you, I thinkcreates a more expansive understanding.
I also think it can make anybodybetter at their art,
because you can engage withI don't like this or I

(01:29:02):
this doesn't align with my tasteor this is out of alignment.
And you can like, articulatewhat that is for you as opposed to
not so not understanding thator not having that discernment
a thing that I want folks to reflect on
is to allow yourselfto find your creative process.
Your creative process might be a processcurrently.

(01:29:24):
does not mean it has to be your creativeprocess that you're sticking with.
Like, understandthat we adapt and change to our scenarios
and our situationsand and also the media we consume.
Things can completely shiftwho we are as a creative
in the ways that we are not expecting.

(01:29:45):
And with thatcould change your creative process.
But do not be afraid of thatand remember to let your ideas cook.
Yes, cook. Let them cook.
And yeah.
And yeah, that's what I would do.
I would just if you if you took any,if you didn't take anything
from both our respective soap boxes,

(01:30:06):
remember to let your ideas cook.
And sometimes that the ingredient that youneed is people to see what you're doing.
Yeah.
Well, thank you all for spending this timewith us.
You know, we love it.
We're so grateful that you all listen,that you engage.
Our next episode is going to bedefinitely more of the same.
You're going to talk about silly stuff.
We're probably goingto have these deep tangents into nonsense,

(01:30:31):
you know, and strong opinions about stuffthat nobody really cares about.
But we do, but we care deeply.
We care deeply and frankly, if there arethings you want us to talk about,
if you want, an opinion, we'll give it,if you want,
if you have Rex for some things,we should be watching
that you want us to offer some feedbackby. Please do.

(01:30:51):
So, you know, email us at Hustlingwith Harges at gmail.com.
I repeat that is Hustling with Hargesat gmail.com.
We're happy to hear from you.
Respond to you.
You know, also follow us onall the socials, get us at the Instagrams
and the TikToks and all the things thatthe, the, the youth are all.

(01:31:14):
Because we we are the youth.
We are. We do you things.
And then you can follow us at Hustlingwith Harges on TikTok, Instagram.
We are on YouTube now.
And I think that's all the placesthat we're at. Yes.
Yeah, that's where we are.
And, you know, like follow,listen, subscribe.
You're already listening to us.

(01:31:35):
Just, you know, hit that follow, hitthat subscribe button.
And we take feedback very well. Right.
But don't say anything bad,
We like with that.
We do love you all.
Thank you all for joining us.
We'll see you next time.
Have a great day and bye bye.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}This Got Deep: Channeling Creativity in the Chaos

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

This Got Deep: Channeling Creativity in the Chaos

Stuff You Should Know