Trust the Process: Creative Burnout, Honest Feedback, and Building Real Community as Black Artists

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Look, at us doing a thing together.

(00:01):
Look at us doing a thing.
Will there be a party about it?
If there's a party about it,
tag us in, baby. Whatever.
you need.
Cause that's a thing we'll do.
We will celebrate you.
I'm anti-bill for sure.
Anti-bill, for sure. 110% of the time it
works every time.

(00:23):
Hey, y'all.
Welcome to this episode of Hustling with Harges.
I'm Courtney, theatermaker, sewist, knitter, and nonprofit
strategist and certified TV nerd.
I'm here with my co-creatorand real-life sibling.
What's good everybody?
My name is Tyrone.
I'm a motion designer,3D artist, animator, and self-proclaimed
King of the nerds.

(00:44):
And a card-carrying film snob.
And yes, I am the younger sibling,which means I bring the innovation
and the petty.
This podcast is our creative living room,a space for deep convos,
pop culture mess, entrepreneurial chaos,and sibling joy.
Whether you're a maker, a dreamer,
a burnt out artist, or just nosy,this show is for you.
So let's build something dope together.

(01:06):
So pull up, subscribe, text your cousin
and let's get into Hustling with Hargesbig dog Courtney, what's poppin?
How you doing?
I get to be "Big Dog"every week. Every week now it's Big Dog.
I am doing well, actually.
It's been a really productive week.
I'm, getting to takea little bit of a break, which is nice.

(01:26):
You never, never know work.
But it is, you know, less work.
Yeah. I'm trying to lean into it. I'mtrying to lean into the nice weather.
I'm trying to just engage with all of thejoy and positivity there is to be had.
That's very good. That's very good.
You said nice weather.
Like it hasn'tbeen a trillion degrees in New York.
We had a very cold winterand this heat wave is rough.

(01:50):
I'm not saying it's not rough.
But I'm trying to engagewith the outdoors
and not just sleep on top of my airconditioning.
Yes, How are you, bro?
Bro, I'm doing good.I'm doing good. It is.
I'm also trying to embrace the weather.
It's also a trillion degrees.
But again, we are outside.

(02:11):
I have been on a few block party
Instagram videos and photos, dancingand enjoying the summertime
because Brooklyn in the summertimeis my favorite time of the year.
Anywhere in the world.
BrooklynSummer is such a unique, wonderful space.
But I also do appreciate thatI do keep seeing you

(02:32):
on Instagram Storiesat various places in Brooklyn,
just in places like in the background,our own Haj base.
Where's Waldo? Where is the tarot?
Over there. The tarot? Black people.
I thought he was still in the house.
I love it, I love that I'mthe where's the wall of the house.
This is like again scrolling.
I'll be not quite doom scrolling.

(02:54):
I'm going to call it, you know, joyscrolling, seeing some positive things.
In the world.
I like joy scrolling.
I might just be rebrandingdoomscrolling, but, you know, here for it.
Picking Palmer, Palmer said that she isthe queen of reframe.
Reframe? Yes. The reframe.
I saw her on Jennifer Hudson staying isshe was talking about like,

(03:14):
it's not that I didn't get the part.
It's that your movie will not be as goodbecause I am not in it.
And I was like, yes, mindset.
Hi. Yes, it's using the mental mind
to to reframe, to reshape,to know what happened.
It's a skill So yes, the joy scrolling.
I have definitely looked at some stuffand seen you in the back living my best.

(03:38):
Like, oh hey, I live in your best life.
So good. So, you know, we got to do.
We didn't do it last week.We got to do our sibling shout out.
We got a start.
We got to come out the gatewith the sibling shout out
Bubba Bubbading ding ding ding ding ding ding. It
You. My sibling shout out for the week

(04:01):
is my prototypical amazing,
ridiculous siblings in the animated world.
And and live action worldWednesday in Pudsey at.
Excellent choice, excellent choice Jess.
They are weird, but they love each other.
Absolutely.
We do not come for my brother Wednesday.

(04:22):
It's like will ride and or dieand definitely kill for her brother.
Yes, she's trying to kill her brother.But that's that.
That's God, that's my you.
That's my, that's that's my versus.
This is us.
That's what we do.
You worry about you over there.
Because if you try to get over hereand cause any type of harm, it's over.
I'll put piranhas in your bathtub,okay as well.

(04:45):
Also shout out to Wednesdayseason two coming up.
Yes, yes, I'm very excited about that.
very different mode.
You know my siblingsare my sibling shout out
this week actually goes out to Reggieand Cheryl Miller.
Because the clip of Cheryltalking about her
105 point game, the same nightas Reggie had like a 40 to 50 point.

(05:08):
Yeah, like a 50Is just one of my favorites, and I.
I love them both. They're so skilled.
And I just appreciate that Reggie Milleris Hall of Fame basketball player,
one of the greats and not close to beingthe best basketball player in his family.
In his I as a as an older sisterI rep Cheryl Bel air
because he just straight up is like no,but I'm better than him.

(05:30):
But I'm better than I love himand I'm going to flame.
He's going to get these jokes.
He's going to he's going to understandhe can get these skills that's my brother.
He is great, I am better.
And that is just what it is.
what it is.
There's both deep love, deep competitionand a deep respect.
And also recognizing that, like CherylMiller is one of the greatest of all time,

(05:52):
The interview she does,I forget where it is,
but it's on like a basketball podcastand it's when Reggie comes back
and he's like, is their dad is like, Reg,tell her how much Cheryl you got issues.
Like, you know, he's like,I dropped like I dropped like 50 on it.
And she was like, oh, that's cool,that's cool.
And sheshe said that. Reggie looked at her.

(06:14):
She goes, cool, how would you do drop.
He goes like 100 and 505.
It's an obscene number of points.
And I just imagine you have to stay humble
where you have one of the best gamesof your career,
and definitelyone of his best games to date.
And then get in the car with your sisterand she doubled it.
and made him work for it,made him work to get the number.

(06:37):
didn't didn't dismiss his accomplishments.
So if you just not as good as me,nobody saying you're not good.
You just. You just not as good as me.
And basketball gamesdon't go over 130 points.
But you got 105 points.
just to scored 210.
Like what you see?

(06:57):
You what did you do.
What would have been. Oh my.
If you if I had an amazing game inUkraine, it was like I scored 105 points.
I didn't even like check up Cheryl. Okay.
Check up
with her.
Jumped out the car second.
Got to the half car.Got anywhere near caught?
No, we do it right now. We'll go.

(07:19):
No, I don't care that it's late.
I don't care to retire right now. What?
No one.
Check up
and we open.
We open until I win.
That's stupid.
We're locked in for the rest.
For the duration, amazing.
So because we also think itbecause we didn't do our shopping

(07:40):
shout out last week.
We also missed, our dynamic duos of dynamic duos.
And this is our countdownto get to either both
or either of two of our favorite setsof creative siblings.
The sets are DebbieAllen and Phylicia Rashad
and Jadenand Will Smith will take all four of you.

(08:02):
we'll take individual pairs.
We'll take.We'll take it. we're working through it.
We want it to.
This is day four of our countdown
to getting one or both of thesesets of siblings on the show.
Day four of our dynamic duo of dynamicduos, I believe, and Freeman
They're going to receive this invitation,
and they're going to want to talk to usabout their creative processes.

(08:22):
about what it means to be siblingsand about what it means
to make things that are awesome,both together in the heart.
I'm very excited for that interview.
That's going to be a really great day.
It's going to be a great day.
With that,we're going to slide into our main moment.
Now is the time for the main moment.
The part of the showwhere we dig a little deeper.
Whether it's creativity, culture,chaos or care.

(08:43):
This is where we pull the threadand see what unravels.
This episode's main moment,we call the Creators Couch,
which is an exploration of our creativeprocesses and current projects.
So we get to, as we always do, nerd outabout what we're working on,
but really think about the processfor our current projects.
Yeah, I'm excited about this segment.

(09:03):
I like this, I like learningabout your creative process.
That's fun.I really like learning about yours, too.
Especially since they comefrom such different places
Our creative kind of impetusis very different.
it's interesting to see, like,what makes you want to do something,
what makes me want to do somethingand where there's overlap.
And so we're going to open with,I'm going to pull up the move.

(09:25):
And this is Tyrone's question,but I'm gonna make him
answer it first, because I'mthe one talking is when you're doing
a project, from idea to final project,what does it look like to you?
So from idea to final project,It starts off really with, like,
the inkling ofI think something is missing
in a, in some form of media,with Epic Flower Sack.

(09:46):
I think it's because like this,there aren't
a lot of like fantasy storiesthat are around black and brown cultures.
But with another thing like like Hootand Holler, which is Courtney's one,
her favorite.
One of my favorite projects.
It's the, the, like, lack of diversitywhen it comes to, like, true crime stuff
and, like, it's ridiculous and fun, but,like, it's also, like, deeply rooted in,

(10:08):
like, southern and black culture,specifically like, like me
and Courtney grew up in the Greek system.
So there's a lot of, like, Greek,like black Greek,
influence and, and inspiration from it.
And it and it just starts with this ideaof like my,
a lot of my ideas start off with, well,what if blank was a cartoon instead?

(10:30):
I then take that to my friendsand I bounce ideas off of that,
or I take them to Courtneyand I bounce ideas off of that.
And then we kind of solidify a moment,and then that turns into
writing treatments and developingcharacters and getting scripts
together and like, you know,maybe like plotting out an episode.

(10:50):
And then from that,I will take that to other people.
We'll go,I'll go back out to people again,
and people will read itand let me know how they what they feel,
what they need to change things,what's feedback off that?
go back into my laband then I'm working on my character
designs and concepts and like,I'm, I'm really get into like the world
building aspect of it.

(11:11):
Like with epic right nowwe are in the process of like we've gotten
all our characters,redesigned by this phenomenal artist
in Lagos named Genesis Williams.
And, we are now going through
and getting character reveals and trailersdone to potentially get
a Kickstarter out in the nextwhich is very exciting.

(11:35):
But from and and to to let you know thatfrom like idea
to production for epic flowersake is has been a ten year thing.
So like the the processwhile it doesn't change
over the course, depends on how longthe process is at that.

(11:55):
If that makes sense.
Like the goal from A to Bis still the same,
it just depends on what's in between.
That takes the longest.
That that works out right in my head.
Now I understand that in that like,you're like, I know where I want to start.
I know where this one ends up.
And now it's like a matter ofjust doing it.
Yes. Long it takes just to do it.

(12:16):
How long the execution is, is.
Dependent on the thing, on what it takes.
And how long does it take to do?What is it? What do I need?
Do I have the resources?
Can I can my momentumstay connected to my like, inspiration?
Right.
Yeah. Can I keep it going?
Can I get over the hump?
Yeah.
My and and from project to project,it kind of looks the same.

(12:39):
It's very much it starts off okay.
Like,what if something was drawn or a video
game, the process of building a treatment.
And then either we put it on the shelf and
wait until we get further alongin both skill and expertise
and like fundraising to thengo bring that back down the shelf
and go a little further with it,or we go all the way with it

(13:02):
and we push it to as far as we can gowithout asking for help.
We know why without asking for help.
That's a good question.
As soon as I said it, I was like, damn,
I think it comes from this, like
concept that I want to have enough of itto, to show, to feel validated,

(13:23):
like I it's not just a like, flyby night concept, but like,
this is like a real thingthat I'm working on.
And I think a lot of people will see
an idea,especially coming from where we come from.
Like film and TV and gaming and stufflike that.
They, they're, they're respected,but they're not seen as like

(13:44):
something that you can really feed offwith.
At least growing up.
Now I'm, you know, I mean, back home inthat sense, in that capacity in a while.
So like, it absolutely could have changed.
But growing up, it was very much like,okay, this is cute in everything,
but it you know, the desire is like, yes,

(14:07):
so I want to be able to show upwith something that I'm like, no,
we built this ourselvesand we've just reached a point where we
where we can't do anything elsewith what we have.
Like, we need help, as opposed to askingfor help in the beginning
when it still feels very, infantile.
right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,definitely. That's.

(14:28):
Yeah, that makes sense.
You know, I read the questions,and then sometimes you forget.
Oh, yeah, I do also have to.
You also have to ask the question overbecause For me, the process
is it's kind of the same, but the impetus
can be very different.
Kind of depending on whatthe type of project is.
And so, you know, working in theater

(14:48):
both and workingin, fiber arts, particularly, textiles.
Yeah. Knittingand sewing is very different.
Just because they requiredifferent resources.
But almost always.
It really starts atI want to play with something.
And sometimes it can beI want to try this new yarn like,

(15:09):
it's like, okay,I want to make something out of silk yarn,
or I want to make somethingthat is, cobalt blue or marine blue.
Those are my favorite colors, right?
So it's like something
I just want somethingthat is as blue as I can make it right.
Or it's I want to try a new techniqueor I want to experience a new texture.
And so it's like, okay, what is thethe thing that would make me excited

(15:30):
to try that textureor I also tend to tend to buy fabric
before I have a project.
And so sometimes it's like,okay, here's a dress or,
an item or a shirtor something that I saw somebody wear.
Do I, what do I have from my current stashthat would make that thing happen?

(15:51):
Like make that thing interesting, knowingit's like, okay, if I can't buy anything,
I have to use what I have.What would I use?
And that's helpful because it doeshelp me, like, shop my own stash.
It helps me, use the stuffI already have access to,
but it also just makes me think,what do I want to be wearing?
What's something I want to try?
And I will say this as a plus size woman,I've been plus size for forever.

(16:15):
It's. And it's wild to think about.
There's no separate episode or I'mreally thinking about like why I would say
talking about the bodyand fat shaming of the early 2000
and what that meant to be a high schoolwoman in a high school girl in that space.
And what it didto just like how I considered my size,
because I was much smaller then

(16:36):
and probably unhappierwith my body than than I am now.
I have a lot more kind of acceptanceand understanding of what my body is.
I have a lot more celebration in my body, which is connected to sewing and
to sometimes the impetus for a sewingor a knitting project is to be
what thingcan I make that I would look good for me?

(16:56):
That I was either tooafraid or too self-conscious to try?
Before, because buying clothesas a plus size person
just such a hostile actso often, because buying clothes in
general can feel so, Nothing offthe rack is made to fit anybody.
It's a thing.

(17:18):
The sizing is made to mostly fitmany people,
as opposed to somethingthat fits any one individual.
Well.
And so sometimes it really is just like,what can I buy or what can I make?
Excuse me?
It's what can I make thatI can feel comfortable
in, that I know will fitin, that maybe can just expand my style.

(17:41):
So sometimesthat's where my idea comes from.
And so it's like,all right, I want to try the thing
that I knowI won't be able to buy somewhere because,
you know, not only am I plus sizeand only am I, and I use
fat and size interchangeably,so not only my fat and I'm short.
And I'm okay with that. I'mfive foot three.
And again, I truly love I love my body.
I love being in it.

(18:02):
But plus size clothes in the mass
markettend to emphasize these giant florals,
where they tend to assume that,plus size is also tall,
which makes like means that like, things
that would fit me, like, around drown me.
Because short. So.

(18:23):
When I'm conceiving a new kind of clothingproject, it really is about.
What is the look I want to play with,knowing that I've kind of solved
or at least can understand fit,I know it's going to fit me.
So now what do I want to wear?
What do I want to feel sexy in?
What do I want to play with?
Where? Like when I'm shoppingor when I'm trying to buy clothes?
It's like,I don't even know if it's going to fit.

(18:43):
So I'm going to play it safe.
And so being bolder, and again, from,you know, start to finish as far as like
a project pose really is about like,what do I want to wear?
What is somebody in the world wearing thatI like, and how can I make this work?
For me, using as many of the resourcesI already have as possible
and then a lot of times from there,it is just doing

(19:05):
and I tend to run IT projectsuntil I hit a wall,
and then I try to find a solutionto get over that wall.
that was beautiful, man.That was I love that.
I love that your your process is personal.
feel like a lot of people'sprocesses are professional.
I do this because this will get me here
instead of like,I do this because this is how I feel.

(19:28):
like, I feel like my process startedprofessional and then became personal.
Because, like, I feels it very much
as it used to be, like, okay,if I do this, then I will get X.
And now it's, I do this and now I feel x
and it, it feels more,
spiritual and like it feels more emotional

(19:50):
when I complete a project nowand not so much.
Just like this is just a stepping stoneto something else.
This is going to sound something,I'm afraid the senses and universe.
As as I admitted in our last episode,I love attention.
I like.
And again, over my sound,I know in contrast to that, in that
I really docreative things for other people.

(20:12):
And frankly,I think sometimes to my deficit,
because as much and I very much
I want to understandan audience experience like I don't just
I'm not the type of person who disregardsaudience experience or disregards
feedback, but my creative pursuitsare almost always self motivated,
and I would like people to join me on the.

(20:34):
I sometimes struggle
with being motivatedby what motivates others, and I don't.
It doesn't.
I don't want to sound likeI don't have empathy,
or I don't want to sound like I don't careor have connection.
So I get it.
I am.
I feel like I'm terribleat guessing what other people want.
I'm really responsiveto the things that people say they want.

(20:56):
If somebody is like,this is the thing I like,
I think,oh yeah, I think I know how to do that.
I know how to get that. It'sone of the reasons why I really
I love feedback.
And we talked about this.
You know, in previous episodes, I do lovefeedback and I feel like part of why,
frankly, I think I'm good at feedbackis because I can receive all of it
and then use discernment or my ownpractice with my own lens to determine

(21:18):
what of that feedbackis actually actionable for me,
but I can hold all of itas opposed to being like, oh,
well, people want this,so I have to shift it this way sometimes.
Like, okay, enough people said that thingwhere I'm going to consider it
and this is what I know.
I want it to be like,I'm I'm kind of immovable in that sense
where it's like, no, I had the visionand there are ways in which I do that,

(21:40):
and I think I can be lucky
because people do frequently respondpositively to the things I offer.
But I struggle.
I getI don't know if that's the right word,
but I,I am extremely internally motivated.
And I think I'm a good collaborator.
Again, I don't bulldoze people, but Iif I have a vision

(22:01):
and I'm clear on what it is,that can be enough
to keep me going todo the thing and can give me,
both support because it can keep me going.
And so then I can release itinto the world
and I'm like, hey, you guys,
I did this thing that I'm proud ofand I like it.
I also hope you like it.

(22:21):
It would be great if you like it.
But while I was making it or while I wasengaged in it, I was not as concerned
about how you would receive itas maybe I should be.
And so it's been interestingbecause especially in a later chamber,
to talk more about like promotionand yeah, yeah, it is interesting cause
I do feel like I struggle.
I actually, I think I'm goodat creating compelling, interesting

(22:44):
marketing stories, and I'm not goodat understanding what people want.
I, I understand what I think is cooland what I want to do, and I'm happy
to share that and create ways for peopleto receive and in and participate in that.
But if it's like,well what did the people need.
Get the people going.
I don't know what that is.

(23:08):
You said something that I would like you
to kind of dig a little deeper inif we if we can go there.
You said actionable feedbackas opposed to like,
I think people hear feedback and they'relike everything somebody says to me,
I now have to do, oh, as opposed to like,

(23:29):
every somebody says something to me
and then Iand these are the things that I can do
that I also feel likewill push the project specifically
it talking about creative feedback,that will push the project
to the next level as opposed towhat is somebodys taste?
Versus like professional and andand actionable feedback if you could.

(23:52):
Yeah.
Give me a little bit more on that.
Absolutely.
So I.
Am going to tell the story.
So a few years ago
and it might be more than a fewbecause post-pandemic, what is time?
Does anybody understand time?
It's And what is time?
So a few years ago, I got to go to

(24:13):
a, discussion,
where, Ava DuVernaywas talking about her process
and she was talking about if,if I'm not mistaken, it's been a while,
so, you know, please forgive me.
Whatever. God of Fact-Checking.
If I'm slightly misquoting the story,but I will tell you my takeaway from it.

(24:34):
But anyway,she is talking about her relationship
with her grandmother and one of hergrandmother's kind of prayers for her,
or wishes for her in a conversationsabout discernment.
It's like her grandmotherwished her discernment, the ability
to be able to kind of see clearlywhat is what and and what is in
specifically what is actionable,what is useful, and what is this noise

(24:57):
and that talk back or that, conversation
really helped articulate something thatI feel has always been true for me.
And so I'm not it was also it could bevery possibly be my grandmother.
I don't know which of the ancestors prayedfor me to have discernment, but hoo boy,
I have it.
I am good at distinguishingand I'm not perfect.
I don't make perfect decisions in any way,but I am good at distinguishing.

(25:19):
Okay, what feedback is actually goingto serve what I want it to,
or my kind of vision or.
And what feedback is representative of
is a difference in taste,or is it different in style, like,
you know, for example, one of my partners
in An Amazing man,he, is a minimalist by trade,
like his style is minimalistand my style is maximalist.

(25:43):
I like all the things all at once. Right?
We've been together for a very long time,
and so one of the ways that we have gottenbetter at giving each other
feedback is we actually we don't gowith, okay,
it should have moreor it should have less.
It's always going to haveif he does it, it's
always going to have less than I thinkit should.
And if if I do it, it's always goingto have more than he think he should.
Right. And so we both know thatthat's valid feedback.

(26:04):
Sometimes we can hear it,but we also just know that like our tastes
barometer aroundthat is different to that, to where
we don't even give each otherthat type right?
Our feedback or our conversations,or if we're talking about something
creative or just an ideais just focused on other things.
Not like, all right,you should do less or you should do more.
It's, you know, maybe we can change thisor this is the shift you can do

(26:26):
because, like,
it's always going to be too much for himand it's always going to be not enough.
And and really being able to understand
one who is the feedback,who are the people you respect, frankly,
like I don't really take feedbackfrom people I don't respect.
It doesn't have to be peoplewho agree with me.
But like, if I don't like the way you moveto the world anyway, if I don't like

(26:48):
how you operate just as a person,
it is very hard for me to receive
anything you say as impacting the projectin the way I want to right now.
That's that's super real.That's super real.
If I don't like how you are in the world,why do I want to do more things like that
don't make sense to methat know that math doesn't math.

(27:11):
And we are four for four.
Yeah.
Just put it your life.
And you know, I realizeI feel like every episode
is going to have its moment,but like that is also part of the
that's one of the things I thinkwas kind of highlighted in centers, right?
Remicksaid. Remember, God wanted the music.
He wanted to be present.
He wanted to consume it, to have accessto the things he appreciated.

(27:35):
And he thought he wasoffering helpful feedback.
He's like, no, if you do this,
if you joined us,you could still make your music.
I'm not gonna stop you.
You can do the thingand you just have to do it with us.
In these conditions.
It's like, why don't you let us in?
Because, you know, we're musicians.
We can give you money like that.
Is that is feedback.

(27:56):
That's not critique,but that is input where
he's like, hey, you're doing a thing.
This is how I think you should change itby letting us have access to it.
And that discernment was like,nah, fam, we're not going to do that.
You know, I see what you're saying to me.
I see what you want it to look like,and I do not want that.

(28:16):
And so I'm not goingto give you access to it.
And so that is what likeeverybody will give you feedback.
Everybody will give you, insights
into how they thinkyour creative process should be.
And I don't say I'm not sayingdon't take any feedback, but I'm saying
be discerning about the types of feedbackyou incorporate,

(28:37):
because sometimes it can be helpfulalso to say
things like, I see why that's a good ideaand I'm not going to do it.
And then and this is why just be ableto work and articulate about
like though I understand why it could takethe project in that direction.
There's a reason I don't want to try that,or there's a reason I don't want to.
And it makes you both sharper.
And how you talk about your work.

(28:58):
it also allows the projectto grow in ways that
keep the integrity of the project.
If that's in the way that you want to go.
Discernment, the ability to distinguishthe types of feedback, particularly,
again, from people who you respector whose work reflects
the things you want it to reflect,like sometimes you might be willing

(29:19):
to try more thingsfrom people who you're like,
I don't know if I feel that,but I respect where you've gone.
So now I'm going to try it.
Like it's an opportunity to play.
But discernment is figuring outwhat feedback is actionable
and what is just noise.
What is just the thingthat somebody wanted to say at you
that you're like, I hear that,and I'm not gonna do anything with it.

(29:41):
Okay, okay.
Yeah.
That was really I feel likeI think I have good discernment.
But I also take all feedbackas something that needs to change,
which is the thing that, like,I'm, I am working on and I understand,
but it does feel likeespecially if it comes from, like,
somebody I respect orlike is in my circle.

(30:03):
Like I'll immediate be like,oh, then this is this is the idea.
This is a good idea that I should doinstead of being like,
well, let me think about it.
Like, how does it feel for meto have to change this feedback
or to use this feedback instead of like,how does it
I'm immediately thinking that your ideais a good idea, instead of being like,

(30:23):
well, which direction doI want to take the, the project?
And if that if the direction is in linewith what your feedback says, then fine.
But if it's not, why would I do it?
And then, like course correct.
On a thing that I don't thinkneeds to be quite corrected.
It's just that's the thing that I,I really appreciate the,

(30:44):
the, the, like this section of actionable feedback.
Well,because everybody will have opinions.
I say this all the time.
If you ask me a question,I will give you an answer.
Is that answer
informed or supportedor aligned with what you want?
Now is the answer.
And like and I recognize that frequentlylike my solutions

(31:04):
to anything regardless of creative or notlike are informed by my experience.
Right?
Like yeah,
there are some things like frequentlysomebody is like, I have this problem.
My first question is going to be like,did you talk to somebody about it?
Did you talk it out? Did you communicate?
This is I'm an extrovertand I'm a, you know, a certified yapper.
As I say, I talk,I will talk it out so frequently, like

(31:24):
my first solution is going to be like,did you say some words at it?
And other people are like,maybe there are different ways to do that.
I, I get that people don'thave to take that advice or take whatever
solution I would offer, becausesome people just may not be inclined.
I have I'm deeply comfortablewith like conflicts.
I'm not confrontation. No. Yes.

(31:47):
But I'm also like more likely to say, hey,I feel like we have some beef
or something's happening here.Can we talk it out?
Then the next person who may be like,that feels like
a little aggressive for me.
And I'm like, I just ask a question.
Yeah.
And so, you know, there is a calibration
on, like, in talking to people who you getfeedback from,

(32:07):
what is the type of advicethey might give.
I'm not saying pick.
You know, you don't have to write scriptsfor people in your head,
like actually talk to people,
be in conversation, but also understandthat there are things that are.
I don't know that are.
Connected to just people's ownpersonalities and inputs and practices.
And so in a system
that's a part of discernment,sometimes it's understanding, okay.
What is the type of adviceare we going to give.

(32:28):
What is the nuggets that I dofind actionable in what they're saying.
Or I if I'm feeling really stuck,I'm like, I can't move in this way,
I'm more likely to take like
somebody advice wholesale just to likejust did three tires or paint.
Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Right.
Just just to be like,oh I gotta try something else.
All right.
This didn't work at all. Great.You said flip it upside down.

(32:49):
All right, all right.
And especially in the age of, like,digital work.
Where you can undo quickly.
It's like I'm going to,you know, a control Z.
Everybody on something.
We'll just say I think they createdcontrol of the every day.
I think they know what they were doing.Yeah.
And so yeah.

(33:09):
And so even like with knittingor sewing like
sometimes it's just like, all right, I'mgoing to try it this way until it works.
And if not, you know,knitting is a giant knot.
I can just take this out.
It's annoying to take it out,but but knowing that it's
reversible allows me to go for,you know, sewing.
Sometimes it's harder.
You can't you can't uncut something,but sometimes you can sew it
or you can patch it,or you can figure it out.

(33:30):
Like you can find a creative solution.Yeah.
And so yeah, I try to use discernment
and and then a little bit of playlike let's try it.
Let's see if Ithis might open up something for me here.
So discernmentisn't just ignoring feedback
or just picking only the good feedback.
Sometimes it's like,all right, what is the low stakes way

(33:51):
I can experiment or try this feedbackto see if it gets me where I'm going.
doesn't have to be a complete revampof the whole project,
but I'm not opposed to spendinga half a day sometimes
going down a route based on some feedbackand then being like, you know what?
Actually, that didn't work out the wayI wanted to or I learned something.
It wasn't quite the thing I wanted,but I did get some more information

(34:11):
and I might have,you know, pick up a new skill
or picked up a new practiceor just a way to think about it
that can then go back
to the majority of the product, like it'sall it can all be valuable.
It just doesn't all have to be like,
all right,this is the direction of the project now.
Like this is thethis bit of feedback is the only benefit.
You know, I love that.I love that so much.
I think that's I, I think that's goingto help a lot of people.

(34:35):
I think a lot of peopledon't have the discernment that
or the ideaof what even discernment is like.
And I think the I think you articulated itin a really great way
that, like, anybody can kind of beinglike, oh, you know what?
They do me answer me.
Yeah.
So I don't know why we listen to themanyway.

(34:58):
Like or like, oh,
I really enjoy the way this artist moves
and like I respect their opinion on stuff.
Maybe I will ask them something.
And you know,I think that's I think it's extremely
I think it's going to be very helpful.Well thanks bro.
Yeah I'm very much on the likeif your life isn't set up the way I want

(35:18):
my life to be set up, if your art isn'tset up the way that I want to be set up,
why am I not that you can't offersomething valuable, but like,
if you built a life that I don't isyou've built the type of project
that I don't want.
So I don't understandwhy we would be aligned in how
I want my creative process to, to work.
It's so true.
Yeah.
Elon Musk can't tell me anythingabout how to to do anything.

(35:40):
Yes, he has a giant pile of money back,
I don't like anythingabout how he moves to the world.
Oh, man.
I saw somebody on somebody on TikToksaid, are you like,
are you a rich dude or are you just a lanewith a lot of money?
And I'm like, okay, well
well, yeah. No.
Yeah.
There's nothingI, there's nothing I can learn from him

(36:01):
because all of his lessonshave got him to this point.
Yes. Sitting on a bunch of money.
Yeah.
With nothing really to show for it.
And you know, your first lesson from ElonMusk is, you know, benefit
if I'm a part time and then.
Right, you got to do that first.
You got to do that first.
And I'm not I won't do that.

(36:22):
That is the sound.
You gotta you gottayou gotta do that first
and then everything elseand then and yeah, none of it.
And so like but just as an example. Yeah.
So like not takingnot taking feedback from people.
I don't respect this. Yeah.
It's real and I think, I think the, the,
the not caveat but the, the, the extra,the bonus point on top of that,

(36:46):
especially working with hustle cultureis regardless of how much money they have.
Like, I'm not dealing with somebodywho I don't respect, regardless
of how much money they have, regardless
of what their look of successmay look like to me,
like there are tons of peoplethat I follow on on, Instagram

(37:07):
that have these like motivational things,you know, the hustle culture
and like 80% of the things I listen to,I'm like one,
you guys are all saying the same thing,which is fine, but there are very few.
There are there are few peoplethat I follows that are even smaller
group of like black men in this space

(37:29):
that aren't like super dude bro.
That I'm like, okay, what you're sayingI kind of rock with.
And even then, and as I'm saying it,
I'm realizing that my discernmentis stronger than I think it is
because I'm listeningand I'm like, okay, I'm
not really vibing what you're saying,but some of the things you are saying,

(37:51):
I can kind of extrapolate and like
piecemeal together, that makes me feel it.
You don't sound like a complete idiot.
It yeah.
So picking and choosing is helpfulwhere you're like, okay, I see
I can take some of this.
I do like this concept.
That's garbage.I'm not going to deal with that.
And then you get to movehow you want to move.

(38:12):
Yeah.
You get to go in the ways that likefeel aligned and informed for you
and that is where discernment shows that.
Well, I guess I'm more discerningthan I thought I was previously.
You doubt it.
You you make a lot of great decisionsand you know, and again, a willingness
to try or be curious and see how you couldincorporate feedback is always healthy.

(38:34):
It's just worth it to know like okaywho am I going to change my project for.
Who am I going to.
If there's a heart. It's a thingthat I know that needs to be there.
Like who am I going to change that
Something on the peripheryor something and think,
oh hey, I could just try thislike an episode.
It doesn't, like, change the course.
I can take a bunch of feedback on that,and I can incorporate that as well.
it's like, okay, but if the point is X,who are the people I feel will

(38:56):
you truly get X.
Because there'ssometimes people will give you feedback
that is about changing x,changing the heart of the thing.
And I'm like, no, that's that's the coreI, that's what I wanted to do.
And some people are like, oh, well,you know, I don't know if I like that.
I hear that,I respect it. That's but we're doing that.

(39:17):
That's that's the again,to go back to the internal motivation.
That's the thing I wanted to do.
So that's the partthat's not going anywhere.
Or I just I need I want your feedbackto tell me if it is doing that hard enough
and if your responses,I don't think you should do that at all.
Cool.
Then you're just not the feedback partnerfor this project

(39:37):
or this and I for that project. It's yeah.
And you know,I think people see that as when you hear
that, you hear, oh,my project is not good.
And especially if it's coming fromsomebody you respect, if it's like, oh,
I don't like this, you're like,but this is the heart of like,
you know,this is the heart of the project.

(39:57):
This is what the projectis going to be like.
I'm building the project around this,then somebody tells you
they're like, oh,I don't like this part of the project.
I think people take it really
to heart in the sense of like,oh, maybe this idea isn't good then.
And I say, people, I am definitelyone of those people who like, hear
that and be like, oh, well, okay,this idea is not great then,

(40:20):
because somebody I respect sees itand doesn't see the heart of it.
so many thoughts on that.
I both I understandthat it's a, it's a real thing.
And it's also sometimespeople don't see the heart yet.
You know,I was muted when I said my, real loud.
And so I'm
so I'm mad that it didn't go through.

(40:42):
I appreciate the mute out of respect,but it is it.
Sometimespeople just don't see the heart yet.
Because got I mean, we'veI think we've all experienced it.
If you've been a creative person,you're like, oh,
no, if I get this,I don't know if I understand it.
And I actually think the thingI talked about, in last episode, haunted
that book it's like, I don't really dolike, I don't really read horror.

(41:05):
I, I hadn't read other, palette bookswhen I read that.
And afterwardI ended up reading for just,
and it took, well, about a few,a bunch of a few others, I think I,
I did not read Fight Club,but anyway, that's not the point.
The point here is that book I still,again, 20 years later, talked about.
I'm still not sure I got it.

(41:26):
I still don't know.
And if somebody had pitched it to me,I didn't like,
what type of violent garbage is this like?
I wouldn't have been a goodnothing to anybody.
It's nothing I've ever tried.
I wouldn't have been a good agent for,Chuck value.
Right?You want to sell this to people, right?
I mean, like, I don'tI can't I'm not good at it.

(41:48):
Right?
I actually and similarly,I think about the music musical hair,
where I was likea reading that on the page.
I would have had no idea.
I would have been like,this is a nonsensical mess.
There's is there a plot?
Something kind of happens,there's and things do happen,
but it just feels like a collection, like,I don't get it.
And then I saw it and I'm like,oh, yes, this is

(42:10):
this makes a lot of sense to me nowin this experience.
But I would not have been like
the appropriate Shepardto steward it from page to stage.
And so, understand that like realizingthat somebody you respect not getting
your projectisn't necessarily saying it's bad,
it is saying they don't get it yet.
And and I love having those conversations.

(42:33):
Because to me that feels like especially
if I really believe in the heart,if I'm like, I want you to get it.
I want to know what you're missing.What do you what don't you see?
Why is this, a challenge?What is where you're not getting through?
And you may get to the pointwhere, you know, you just.
You just don't get it. And, like,not every piece of art is for everybody.
Even with people you respect.
But it is worth it to me.

(42:54):
I get just excited
to have this conversation for like,what are you missing?
What is what?
What's the information you would needthat would help you get there?
What is the thing that stood out to you?
I also love to ask peopleif in fact in conversation,
what's the moment that you keepcoming back to?
Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad,but there's a thing really, like,
why didn't that work?
Or I like it.
To me, those feels like the,the moments where there's something there

(43:18):
that may need just refine or needto be like edited or touched up on it.
Now, I love that. I love that so much.
I also really love those conversations,
like the conversations of being like,okay, okay, you don't get it then.
And the not getting ityet is really is really important.
But the idea of like,okay, you don't get it.
What can I not what can I say?

(43:39):
But like what information do you feel likeis either missing or,
or something that can be a topicthat can be brought up
that you, you would feel like you get it.
And I that's athat's a really great point.
Look at ustalking about our creative process.
I, we've been here for a second,
but I would like to ask, one,maybe two more questions for sure.

(44:02):
And I guess, and I feel thisfeels connected to discernment, which is.
So what's a tool or techniqueyou've tried that did not work for you?
But, this is going to be controversial,specifically in the 3D community.
I don't like blender.
I, I don't like blender. I don't like it.
I love what it does,and I love what it does for the community.

(44:24):
And I, you know, to quote EddieMurphy from raw, where he's talking about
the moonwalk, he's like, I don't like itbecause I'm not good at it.
That's why I don't like it.
I don't like because I'm not good at it,
because it, it it kind of flipswhat I know on its head.
And so like, I see all the cool,great things people do in blender.

(44:46):
And then I open blender and I look at itand I just want to punch my computer.
This is, going to see you out here
hating you, hating from outside the gatewhat it is.
I really just hate it on the outsidebeing like,
everybody is so talented.
And I open blender and I.
And I want to delete itfrom my computer immediately.

(45:08):
Because it's, it's it forces you kind of
to be a full on creative in the waythat I don't feel comfortable with.
And I don't know why I see your face.
I don't know whyI don't feel comfortable with it.
So don't ask.
I don't
know whyI have no with no reason behind it.

(45:30):
Fine. I'll let that pass.
But I, I have gone back to blender
numerous times to be like, I can do this.
And then I'm at it for like three monthsand I'm like, this is stupid,
and I don't want to do it anymore.
But that is not saying that is a bad tool.

(45:51):
It is a phenomenal tool.
It is a free software
that people are making Academy Awardwinning 3D animated films.
And so like, it's easily
user error, like a mug.
But like,
as opposed to like a tool that I've triedand it's not work for me.
It is blender

(46:12):
and it's I'm sure it's going to be blenderfor at least another year until I,
until I really sit downand like, okay, we're doing this,
we're
making something andit's going to look cool, but that's it.
We're not this is not becomingmajor pipeline stuff yet.
Applying to I'm sure I have something,
And the thing that came to my head,which is.

(46:35):
But it's not as satisfying an answer, is.
Very.
It's not a very specific, but it is, lace.
It's knitting lace with lace weight yarn.
It's so delicate.
You work so hard.
And I say to me,it feels like knitting backwards.
Like I feel like I was like,
how did I work on this thingfor three hours?

(46:57):
And I feel like it's it's a half an inchshorter than it was when I started.
I don't I've made one thing
using a lace weight yarnbecause I wanted to offer this.
I want to make this delicate scarf,and it feels like it took me
so long, and I feel like I worked on itand it did not change.
And I was just like, I how it's like inversus like a time suck of some way

(47:17):
where it's like, it wasn't eventhe knitting wasn't even that complex.
But because the yarn was so lightand it's a beautiful yarn, it was.
And it the product turned out great.
But I was like,okay, this one lace project this late.
And again,
lace wait, because knitting lace patternsI actually like I like the complexity.

(47:38):
It they change up quickly.
They're fun.
But using lace weight yarn.
To knit something is crazy.
Me, I was like,this is all the worst parts of knitting
with none of the rewardbecause it's just so labor intensive,
because you're it's so tinyand so you can feel tiny needles in you
moving things, and you do three rows
and you're like, great,that is a quarter, an inch of progress.

(48:00):
And if you're making a scarf,
they need to be so long and you're like,I can't, I can't be here.
I'm going to die here.
I can't do this anymore.
And so and I see the downsideis I see these beautiful, intricate,
delicate like,gossamer style shawls that people make.
It's just so light and lovely.
And I am just, like, in deepawe and couldn't be me.

(48:24):
Couldn't be me.
If somebody was like, hey,we will pay you a salary
to like, live the rest of your lifeand all you have to do is knit lace.
Wait, things I'd be likeso the salt mines are where they point me
in notes, I can't. Yes, the salt mine.
Sweet. We did that one.
And I was like, here you go.

(48:44):
We're going to pay youto sit here and knit in lace.
Wait forever.
You can't knit anything else. You can knitwhatever you want.
It just has to be lace.
Wait, yarn. I'd be like, okay,but what if I pay?
You have to leave,
right?
Well, what if we do less and I can knit?
Anything else?
Any. Anything else? Okay.

(49:06):
I'll have to think about it for farlonger than is reasonable, because what?
I can't do it.
That is so.
Yes, that is a technique I tried.
I finished the project,
I, I, I literally felt likeI had to, like, wrap it in love.
I had to, like, doing the ritual over itto make sure that, like, my, my hate of it
didn't, like,
go into the project before I gifted itsomebody because no, can't do it.

(49:29):
It's just tiny, amazing.
Oh, okay.
On the contrast of that,what is a tool that you really love in
usingwhere some tools and some, you know, some
apps as a,you know, for the digital side of things.
Oh great question.
There are
few and I, you know, I talk a lotabout sewing this week, but, there

(49:52):
I really love actuallyI'm doing three things that are great.
And so the first two are apps thathelp me organize my creative projects.
Particular one for knitting, onefor sewing, one is a really popular one.
It's called Knit Companion.
It's for iOS.
I think it also actuallyis now out on Google Play Brain.

(50:13):
It was primarily for the, iOS systems.
But it's amazing because like knitting
and sewing, are justare very manual processes right there.
And it's part of what makes them fun.
Crafts is part of what makes themlike it's
something to do, particularly in responseto the digital age, where you're,
physically in the world, manually sewing,knitting meetings.

(50:36):
However, the hard part is like patterns
and organizing all of the stuff takesthe day, takes up so much space.
It's so much paper.
It's so, it can be really tediousbecause like, knitting
patterns are just our gridsfrequently with patterns in them.
And you have to go line by line, rowby row.

(50:57):
And, you know, many of the old schoolknitters
power, few of themhave some really great tools for like
managing that in the physical worldwhere you take your paper,
you have your highlighter,you cross off the thing.
And I am not,
a child of the manual world in that sense.
Like, I want to be able to have my thingbe out in the world.

(51:18):
The thing I'm missing,the thing I'm showing out in the world.
But I need, like, my patterns and myinstructions or whatever it to be digital.
And so Knit Companion is amazing in thatyou can upload your patterns in it,
you can set some buttons
and some fancy settingsand it'll like move down the grid for you
you can also change the colors
so you can get a senseof what your project Color Y is.

(51:38):
It's going to beyou can create some automatic repeat
so if you have like a sectionthat you have to do a bunch of times,
you can set that repeat.
And so it goes through and I'm like, yes,give me that type of digital support
while I'm knitting it.
So that allows me to both take theknitting and like my iPad or something.
Anyway, the kind of equivalent,they do slightly different things.

(51:59):
Knitting patterns and sewing patternsare different, even though they're both.
Paper is, an app called Stash Hub.
Stash hub is for sewing projectsso I can store all of my fabric in it.
That's great, because then I can browsethrough and, like, see what my fabric is.
You can put how much where I bought it,get a little picture of it.
It's great.
I can also put all my sewing patternsand I conspicuous by type.

(52:20):
So here, my skirts here, my dresses here,my tops here, my pajamas here, whatever.
And so sometimes I can be like,I really want a pair of pajamas.
And I go through. All right,these are all the pajama patterns I have.
This is the type of fabric I needand I can make.
I can do some planning again on my iPad,or on its web app.
Super easy.
So those are two, tools I love.
And the third thing, I know you didn'task for three, but they are all connected.

(52:44):
Is one thing that has singlehandedly changed how I sew.
And it is projector sewing.
And that is where you take a projector,that can project onto a table.
You calibrate it to be in real size,and you project
onto your cutting mat onto the fabric,your patterns.
So like sewing patterns.

(53:04):
If you've never encountered
a sewing pattern, sewing patternsare generally thin pieces of paper,
but they are all real sizebecause you lay them on your fabric
and you cut around themto get the pieces that you need.
And so imaginefor anything that you need to sew,
it needs several human pieces,human sized pieces of paper, right?
And spoiler,

(53:24):
they don't really make human sizedpieces of paper the regular consumer.
so what you end up having to do is eitherget them printed professionally by,
their printers who print sewing patterns.
They do excellent work.I've worked with a few of them.
Or you print itpuzzle piece style on eight
by eight and a half by 11 pieces of paperthat you then have to tape together.
that would drive me crazy because thatprinting, cutting just the paper

(53:48):
before you cut out the actual thingcan take hours and in and of itself.
And God forbid
you gain or lose weight and then you haveto cut a different size of the pattern.
It was enough to drive me insane.
And a lot of peopleenjoy the cutting process.
In a lot of sewing, professional tendsto tell you a lot of sewing is cutting
because if you cut the wrong size,you can't sew it together.

(54:09):
It doesn't, you know, you gotyou got to make sure that works.
So, in a way,I do think, cutting as a process.
But I like to change thatsometimes I want to shorten it.
Sometimes I want to, adjust it.
Sometimes you want to, like,let some things out.
You want something, thenyou want to just make some adjustments.
So digital patterns, PDF patternsyou can adjust, you can match the size.
And then you projected onto the fabric,you cut it out.

(54:32):
And then you don't have to storea whole bunch of paper patterns.
And you can make your edits online.
I spend a lot of time I work in AffinityDesigner, which I really like,
I can make these edits and cutsand it's it made sewing so much faster
because I was able to make the adjustmentsI needed to make, gets to
sewing things togetherand, where the clothes that I was making,

(54:52):
like knowing they would fit,knowing that the measurements are right
and still being able to like, dealwith these real sized pieces,
but digitally projected onto the table.
is. It was probably the best investmentin my hobby and made it.
Just took my sewing to an extentbecause I got to do it more often,
more effectively.
This isthat's something that is, affordable

(55:13):
for like, an early person getting into textiles.
That's a great question.
And the answer is yes and no. Okay. Yes.
Some things that you
there's some things that are specific toproject your sewing that can be expensive.
And so ideally you should buy a usedprojector, which can be and there are.

(55:34):
A few different waysdepending on your setup.
That determinehow expensive it's going to be.
But on the expensive end,it can be about a $300
initial cost, which is not bad,I understand can be a lot.
there used to be more.
There were some fancier,
projectors made specificallyfor selling around, like the $800 range.
They didn't really sell that well.
So about $300is probably what you should get.

(55:56):
And that for me,that was about what it cost me,
costing about $150for a used projector that I used.
Because that there'sa great secondary market on projectors.
And it was like,
probably like 50 to $70 for a stand.
I have a rolling TV stand that'sprojectors mounted on and, then cutting.
That's right.You need a surface to cut on.

(56:16):
That's what you need.
So if you're interested in showingregardless of projector setting and not,
you need a place to cut your fabric
so it can be expensive depending onwhat type of thing you want for that.
But in my setup,my sewing table is actually probably
the most expensive thing aboutbecause it folds in, goes away.
You can get much cheaper mountedprojectors, things that don't have
to be flexible, that you can just puton your ceiling like, for your table.

(56:39):
And those can beyou can get really great, for like $60.
Those are more labor intensive. Yeah.
But if you have a bigger sewing space,it doesn't have to adapt.
Right?
Like if you have a permanent sewing space,you know, like my table right here.
Yeah. You can mount that.
You can mount that on the ceiling.
where your table is.
And you can get a whole setup for itfor military like $75 or less.

(57:01):
So it kind of depends on
this is one of the things where like
if you have a house big enoughto have a permanent sewing space,
projector showing is cheaper.
If you are in a spacewhere it has to be adaptable,
you know you can't like
install things in the ceilingor on the wall or something like that,
then you're going to have to buymore flexible spaces
and more flexible materials,and those are a little bit more good.

(57:21):
Projectorsewing.com is a really great resource.
So go look at that.
We should have at that in our descriptionbox description.
You probably see it right here.
And then yeah.
And you can also there's a really great, Facebook group called projectors
for sewing that has that'swhere I learned a lot of the information.
that probably see that. Right.
My favorites here. Great.

(57:44):
a lot of time, but those aresome really great tools to learn.
What are some tools or techniquesthat, you're using
now that you, I will also name three.
I'll name four because two of them arekind of like a package deal.
So the first thing that I really startedleaning into was templates,
especially when it came to, like, designwork.

(58:07):
A lot of, like, freelance work comes from,like, stationery and, like,
event like flier work, like a lot of,like, promotional marketing materials.
for the longest,I was building them from scratch,
which was laborintensive in its own right.
And then I found thiswebsite called Free Pick. Com.
I want to make sure

(58:27):
I give you the right one because it's pi Kwhich is right there.
Yes. it's free Paycom free pick.
And they have a, an assortmentof templates
of stock images of font,
animations.
They have, they recently have 3D,they have 3D models,

(58:49):
they have some type of AI generation,which I use, but I don't use a lot.
But it is essential.
It's the first thing I open upwhen I log into my computer.
of two of theseare the first things that I do.
It is it is free pick,which I use a lot for fliers.
I use a lot for font choices.
I use a lot for,for like early concept work.

(59:11):
And it is, it is free,but there is a subscription base
which gives you a lot more options and,
more download.
It increases your download limit.
It is, it has been a godsend for me.
In that same form it is there is also Envato
and Envato Elements is a subscriptionbased

(59:33):
platform,which is a lifesaver when it comes
to a lot of the motion workand sound design and
and basically anything you needif you have 20 bucks a month, like
if you can get 20 bucks a month,you can get an unlimited download system.
When I love, I love and bottle.
Envato is one of my favorite things,that I've I've purchased.

(59:57):
I've introduced Cortney into it. Courtneyloves it.
Absolutely.
It's they also have 3D.
They have they also have 3D models.
They have a lot of,
I use After Effects, Adobe After Effects,primarily in my motion work.
So they have a lot of like templates thatI can pull farm and kind of Frankenstein.
My own projects, but they are amazing.

(01:00:18):
Jumping off points.
And lastly, is this two for which is,for my 3D artists out there,
especially looking to get into characterdesign and animation
there is a free rigging tool called accu
rig AQR rig and it is doneby this company called re illusion.

(01:00:39):
And they you are allowed, you can upload,you can upload your character,
you can rig them and then you,you have a fully rigged character
that you canthen animate by hand or using.
The other thing that I like to useis actor core,
which is their motion librarywhich is not free but is,
relatively inexpensive.

(01:00:59):
And they have all, all of their,motion in there is either hand
animated or motion captured by,by their own motion
capture studio and motion capture artist.
It is wonderful.
It is easily it's easy to extend itto be accessible for beginner artists.
It is lot of how we animate Epic flowerright now.

(01:01:24):
Considering we're such a small studio,it cuts down, cuts time down
almost in half for concept work.
it is. And it's affordable.
You're talking some animations,you know, $1.50 $2, you can get packs
for like $200, but they giveyou like 70 different animations in it.
And it's it's extremely helpful.

(01:01:45):
I love I love Raya illusion.
I love the, the, community
that they have builtfor specifically independent artists.
A lot of artists that I followuse Raya Illusion.
They use actor core, they use accu rig,and a lot of them are also based
in, Nigeria or

(01:02:05):
or somewhere else on the continent.
And they are theypeople just swear by them that I love.
I love them so much.
It's an extremely great wayto start your animation process.
that's my thing,thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
I have one last question for youand we can this can be
super quick because we've kind of been inwe've been in this for a minute.

(01:02:27):
What is a tool that you want to try?
That is a great question.
Because I loveI love cool new shiny things.
I love a new tool.
I love a new fancy anything, All right.
So I'm.
I hope I'm not taking your answer, butyou can also share this answer in that,
So a friend introduced us to this camera.

(01:02:49):
And it stood.
DJI Osmo Pocket three vlogging sim.
And it is one I'm going to name.
It is the most influencer looking shitI've ever seen.
It's so cool. It's so it's tiny.
It has this like rotating gimbal.
It, Just there is this great stand.

(01:03:09):
And I am not an influencer yet.
But I love the I say you calling it,we're going to do it,
but I, I like I was like,oh, I, I've always actually loved cameras.
I wish I had, you know,if I had time or money for another hobby,
I would probably look at photography or,or filmmaking.

(01:03:31):
I just, I like, I like it, you know,I enjoy, the things that my iPhone can do,
but this camera does seem like,oh, this would be a really great way
to expand our various,
creative ventures spots.
You know, I do, documentmy sewing projects.

(01:03:52):
I do want to do a bit more content
creation, just video wise aroundmy consulting practice, around,
giving folks helpful tips and toolsfor managing their business
or their creative productsor really thinking through them.
And so, yeah,I am kind of crushing on this camera.
Ain't nothing kind of about it over here.

(01:04:14):
I'm big. I'm a big crush.
I'm like.
And stories.
But they hit about this in the camera.
Hey, big hit. Hey, big head.
The camera is dope looking.
It's really good, man. It's really cool.
And the, the, like, little showcasethat they gave us was awesome.
It was so good.

(01:04:35):
It follows you around.
The quality on I think was insane.
And if you know, if we're on,if you're on YouTube and you see this,
it's like this big, like it'snot that big.
It may be a foot and a half, maybe it'syeah, it's okay.
And I'm certain because we are notinfluencers that we are late to the game.

(01:04:58):
I'm sure all the All the cool YouTubekids are all like, whatever.
That was.
So 2022.
Sure, I received thatand I think it's now and I like it.
Give me.
Right.
Give me that.
Yeah.
That is that is the thingI'm really interested right now.
There's.
Yeah, there's
nothing else that I'm really like,oh, I can't,

(01:05:19):
I really need to get my handson this thing right now.
I feel really resourced, which is great,that financially
y'all can pay for whatever.
But I feel really resourcedas far as, like, tools and.
Things I want to do.
Actually, I, I will offerthere's one technique I want to try.
So if the camera is the tool I want,
I've really been interestedin the concept of illusion knitting.

(01:05:41):
Please elaborate on that.
That sounds. Yeah. Fantastic.
It's so.
And and I'm only kind of certainI understand what it is.
But it'swhere, like, it's a knitting technique
where you are holding theI believe it's kind of multiple strands,

(01:06:02):
but you can knit in wayswhere the texture creates a shadow.
So it looks like all red in one way.
And then you can like tilt it inbecause of the raised texture.
You can actually seeit's like white the other way.
Or sometimesyou can have little illusion messages
or you have sections where

(01:06:24):
like you can do like I'm going to sharesomething that I saw that was super cool.
But I also want to be really clear
that it is it's transparent, hereforever, all the time.
Support from people.
And there's a certain wizard propertythat has some knitting.
That has a book of knitting patternsthat I bought
before we realizedthat the make is getting patterns

(01:06:47):
is not terrible,but the initial, IP is terrible,
so I'm not going to name her on the space,but we know I'm talking about,
but I am to mention one of the characters,which is there's this great scarf
that has the dark mark on it,and so it just
looks like a black and gray scarf,but when you turn it,
you can see the full, Darth Vadermark on it.

(01:07:10):
And I was like, that is kind of so
and so it's illusion knitting.
I'm interested in, in that, like,
what is the type of thingto have the kind of scarf with a message?
Probably at that one.
But where you can create,

(01:07:31):
you know, just an interesting, like, codeor just create.
I'm really interested inhow I'm using this, this thing,
which doesn't really have a lot of spacefor illusions
since it is just not how you getthat illusion texture like that.
I find that really fascinating.
So that's a techniqueI'm looking to right?
That's really cool.
Yeah, I would love to see whatyou could do with that. That'd be really.
That'd be really slick.
A tool that I, a tool that I will,

(01:07:55):
that I'm excited to try to, like,really dive into is, the Unreal Engine.
It is crazy powerful.
And it's free.
So, like, it'salso there's no there's no reason
for me not to really be diving headfirstinto this,
and with that, a techniquethat I, that I really want to try, which,

(01:08:17):
I don't think I have the resources nowto do,
but is to do virtual productions,which is where you have like instead
of having a green screen,you have this like an LED wall
that youthen can just project a 3D environment in
and it's perfectly lit for your scenewith live people.

(01:08:38):
They do it on like The Mandalorian.
They do it on like like Dune did itlike it's just it's such
a really cool technique and it's somethingI really want to learn how to do.
And that's like, that's on my listof things to like, learn.
It's reallyit looks really cool when it's done.
Right. Do.
And then like, I can just,you know, that's my delusional thing

(01:08:59):
is where I can look at something like,I can do that if you like,
but you're totally like, I can't do it.
You're like, oh, yeah, I could do that.That's no problem.
That's like work.
And it's, you know,
but it's like $1 million productionwith it, like a 100 man team.
And I'm like,I can do that by myself in my room.
So yeah, that's what I do.

(01:09:20):
Is the way to beat the Lulu is the same.
Lulu. Okay. Do Lulu is this.
It'll get us through.
Through.
It's, bars.
Bars.
Fantastic.
So this next segment, I also.
I'm glad that we're bringing it in.

(01:09:41):
This is a brand new world premiere.
I don't like you.
Do you do?
Yes, you do. But this segment is called.
Come look at this real quick,
which is like a brief opinionand speculation on rumors,
or like bits of pop culture infothat me and Courtney have found throughout

(01:10:07):
We got a couple things
that we want to talk aboutbecause we have opinions.
We have opinions. We want to be clear.
This is some stuffthat just showed up on the internet.
we fact check it? No. Not even.
Are we going to probably not knowwhat people are thinking about.
Is it we just this is justwhat's happening on the internet.
Something that we looking at real quick

(01:10:28):
and offering our insights on,and particularly in our feeds.
This is not like,
you may not be a child, you may not bewhat y'all are talking about,
but we're here for that.
We're here for, so the first thing, in come
look at this real quick is ingeneral is the bond speculation.
Who is going to be the next bond right?

(01:10:49):
I do feel that.
And I realize there's a lotof the internet that also feels this way.
This Aaron Taylor-Johnson bond run is I,I think I want it.
That's what I'm feeling. I'm into it.
I want him to have a franchise at stakesbecause he the franchises,
he does great work and then they're like,okay, here's your Rolex.

(01:11:13):
And you're like, but no, we just
want to see like another movie.
Like it's great.No, it's it's so wonderful.
I have I'll give you a call.
Like it feels like
feels like he does a decent movieand then they're like, no, that was fun.
But yeah, don't call us. We'll call you.It's fine. And he keeps getting movies.
I want him to keep getting moviesI do enjoy.
Aaron Taylor-Johnson.
But it just feels like you can't quiteget that girl, white girl.

(01:11:36):
But I like him as bond.
I think it could be good.
I would want that.
And there are some rumorsthat that might not be.
I mean, whether or not it's going tobe him or not, it's still a rumor.
But there are also some new rumorsabout new rumors about it folks coming in.
I've heard one Tom Holland, Spider-Man.

(01:11:59):
You love a spider.
I don't want him as bond.
I don't really.
Yeah. Why?
I, I think he could do it.
I think I think,and it's one of those things
where, like, I'mnot gonna be angry about it.
I'm not going to be like,no, I just. Right.
Neither one of these niggaspaying a bill here.
So what.
Right. There's out there's that.

(01:12:21):
But you know,
but you know, there's some timeswhere like castings that make you angry.
Wait wait wait wait.
I was about to say,if that's casting, that makes him angry.
But that's that's not here.
But this isn't the castingthat would make me angry.
I just I don't want him as bond.
I think Tom Holland,I think he's a great actor.
And I think there are thingshe can do that we haven't seen him do.

(01:12:43):
I do think one of the thingsthat makes him really,
good in one of the things that makes itsuper marketable
is the natural charismaand like, likability, like, he's
really good at always lookinglike he wants to be wherever he is, right?
Like he him just even as Spider-Man,which I know is such an iconic portrayal.
But like as an actor,his ability to fully inhabit

(01:13:06):
the spaces he's in to kind of inviteeverybody around him to also be
there, is a thing that I think makes himreally, really good at what he does.
Bond has to be aloof in some ways.
He has to feel a little unattainable.Right.
Where he feels likehe belongs in places like like bonds.
Power is always looks like he belongswhere he's supposed to belong.

(01:13:27):
And he makes you feel like you weren'tquite sure you belong.
All right. Am I cool enough to be here?
Because if that guy belongs,that guy's here. I'm definitely.
I don't need to be, then, do I?
And that level of of distance is part of
what makes bondan effective archetype of a character.
Right.
It's he's very he's a little he has tofeel kind of like not a real person.

(01:13:51):
Yeah.
And I think again, Tom Holland's appeal is
how much of a real personlooking at ridiculous things he is.
He's so good at being like,this is how a real 16 year old
would encounter an alien.
This makes sense to me, right?
This is what happens if he's in space.
This is what happenswhen he is trying to fight giant illusion.

(01:14:13):
Robots like you very muchfeel like that guy?
Is a guy I know, and that's how the guyI know would react in the space
and bond feels very much like that's a guythat nobody knows.
He's too cooland interesting to have friends, and
I don't I don't, I don't I have no doubt.
And actually Tom Holland's capabilities,I just really like his

(01:14:36):
accessible character things.
And I think that would change bond ina way that I don't know if would be good.
Right.
So I haveI have two things on this bond situation.
One, happy here.
You've you've described, Tom Hollandas this as this person.
And I believe that the antithesisof this person is Bruce Willis,
but that's Bruce Willis.

(01:14:57):
It's like he's never wants to be inanything that he's did.
He never he never wants to be there.
And it's and it's been in his abilityI that's the inside I'll be quick in that
Bruce Willis is abilityto never want to be in whatever
situation he's in and still be interestingand not feel aloof or distant.

(01:15:19):
Is is actually a it's a really hard skillbecause as an actor,
it's really hard to play.
I don't want to do this in a way that'snot one note, or that doesn't like it,
or in a way that doesn't like limithow your other actors. Yes.
So stars are relating.
And so the ability to be like,I don't want to be here
in a way that so gives a lotis actually a testament to almost a skill.

(01:15:43):
Yeah.
So I get it.
Yes. But Tom Hollanddefinitely much feels like.
Yeah. Because, like,I'm just excited to be wherever we are.
And Bruce Willis, I'm happy to be here.
I don't want to be here at all.
I don't want to be here at allwhere it doesn't.
And it doesn't matter where it is.
They are in the exact sameplane and Korben Dallas
separate team, separate peoplevery much on the.

(01:16:07):
I just want to go home.
If death becomes there, he's like, whyam I stuck with these two crazy ladies?
you're you're going to sayingthere is also talks of damn
some Idris playing bondwhich I am not upset about.
I want to be very clear.I'm all about black people getting checks.
very excited. If you get this,I would not be mad about it at all.

(01:16:27):
I feel that James Bond.
Should be playedinherently by a white man.
And I'm going to say this,and I understand that
some people have just ruffledtheir feathers.
It's episode four. We can cancel.
Oh no. Which is upsetting.
I'd be very upset about that,but I think it's mainly
because he has to be in placeswhere he both can blend in

(01:16:47):
and a little bit stand out,and I think that's very hard to do.
When they were talking about like IdrisElba playing
bit, playing bond, and I'm like,but there's gonna be a moment
where someone is like,have you seen this man?
And they're gonna be like,oh yeah, he's over there
because he's giant in it.
In, in a in a casino.
There's a lot of white people that's soreal in that it's like it's actually not.

(01:17:10):
I'm not going to refine the thingyou said, but I am to expand that.
Yeah. Yeah.
The sense of like the reason, black bondis a challenge is because of the actual
racism of the world as opposed to skillor capacity or anything.
It's the fact that, like bond,like sneaking in
to secure locations or whatever,like that is just, in fact,

(01:17:33):
not a reality for muscular black men,for black men in general,
but particularly for like the bonddiesel's out black style.
Yeah, black man that he would needto be like even watching
this is in the wisest way,and I promise you, is,
even watching like we watched the openingto True Lies a little bit ago and in,

(01:17:56):
you know, in the very,in those very opening scenes where Arnold,
like, sneaks into that partyfrom the scuba suit is right.
And isn't that beautiful tux?
People still notice that really large man
in the space,the inciting incident in that really
is to Cory's character going like,I don't know you, and I'm certain
I would know you because you're giant,you're tall wall, you're big man.

(01:18:21):
Let alone,you know, he's. And he's white.
Arnold is white.
So he fit into that spacewith other white people in, obviously.
And so I just feel like that adding,a black man, adding anybody, frankly,
who's not a white male into these spacesbecause of the ways nonwhite people
are treated in these spaces, makes aa nonwhite bond a writing challenge.

(01:18:45):
that's it is is real.
And so if like if humans were better,a black bond would be amazing,
a black man would be amazing.
And both IdrisElba and Damson interest would kill it.
But the reality is it's hard.
It's hard. Yeah,this is your point, but I'm just on it.
I you
know, I appreciate the cosign,but it's that's how and that's what it is.
And like it's never beenoh they can't do it.

(01:19:07):
It's like you can right.
It is it going to the world is trash.
So is it going to be believableenough again let's take this true lies.
Let's take this true lies part.
Let's say that true Lieswas actually starring Denzel Washington.
So we dive in.
We we have the scuba gear,we may dispatch somebody,
we go into the thing,and then Arnold is immediately

(01:19:31):
barking orders at peopleto blend in like he's management you.
This is a Washington.
You're not going to be managing nobody.
It's me that that conversation,
especially in the 90s,he would transition from being like,
I'm a party guest to like, oh,I'm a server blending in through the crowd
or the ever illustrious, exotic African prince.

(01:19:54):
Yes, it's always princeby between day, right?
There's always some type of genericAfrican prince
because again, the racism says thatthe only way to be a royal black person
or a rich black person in thatin that space was to be not American.
Was to be a form of art and not British.

(01:20:15):
They were like in a very specific way.
So no, I get it.
It's, Yeah, the world has made thata really challenging, proposition.
And to like, you know, close outthis bond thing is that, Denis
Villeneuve is directing this bond movie,which is going to be amazing to look at.
It's going to be it's going to be pretty.

(01:20:37):
I, I'm, I have questions about pacing.
They aren't judgments.They're just quick questions.
They're just questions.
Questions, questions about pacing.
They're just questions about pacing.
What are we going to get?
How are we going to do that?
And I, I it's going to be 4.5 hoursin seven movies.
Right? I don't mind a thoughtful bond.

(01:20:57):
I don't mind a slightly more pensive bond.
I just maybe speed up a little bit.
It had to be like,I'm not saying, like I'm
trying to mess up your flow.
I just what if we just like where we cutten minutes?
We just cut this off because I'm not.
You make great movies.I'm not. It's not a criticism.
And you knowyou're doing the thing. I just.
What if we just. You let things breathe?
What if we let them breathe?It's a little less. Not a lot less.

(01:21:20):
It's a little less.What if we make a movie?
What do we make?
One movie?
Three hours.But we cut a movie out. Do we?
Yeah, we Okay, this we do. That was.
But we only got three movies nowcertified.
Right?
So, this is this is all I'm saying. Okay.
I'm not an orc or, you know, negotiating.
Danny. She's you and me. We just talking.

(01:21:41):
What if, know, the opening bond minimovie, like, like, let that breathe.
Let that blizzard go.
Let it, you know, put,put a lot of your artistry right there.
Yeah.
And then tightenthat back into just a line.
Right. You know.
Yeah. Yeah.
That opening, that scene. Get the cinemawe can watch.
Give me vistas.

(01:22:01):
I love a drone shot.
I love some, you know, pensive.
Staring off into the distanceI like. Yeah.
Close up on some eyeballs.Like we can do all of that.
And then when we get into the plot
driven portion after the first, you know,the always look like bond.
Mini movie at the opening.
Of the Bond movie,we get into the main that we like...keep it snappy.
This is what I'm saying, just right.
That's this what I'm asking.

(01:22:21):
What's wrong with that?
You're not asking.You're not asking for the moon.
And I don't think I am.
I don't think, Fantastic. Oh.
I did learn something.This is a new thing.
We're just adding to this.
We in our list of things.
I just saw it this morning,and I waited to tell you this.
Now is that Michael Bay
is making another Transformers movie,and I'm very excited about it.

(01:22:44):
Okay.
My appointment.
That is exciting.
I'm probably gonna watch it.
I do love a good Michael Bayspinny camera.
Just sometimes it gets a little too much,but I put it on there, spin it around.
It's fine.
And I do enjoy Michael Bay movies ish.
I like the action.
I like the the visual.

(01:23:05):
I like a pretty one liner.
So I watch it, I just the Transformersmovies, we keep making them.
And I am uncertain why.
Because they both feel they feel expensiveand not great, and I haven't,
so I haven't quite figured out the thing,but I'm not the one doing the math.
I love doing the math,but the point you made of expensive

(01:23:26):
and not great is is strong
because they're like, okay, okay,who will keep greenlighting this movie?
Great. It's making the decisions.
And I'm not again, I'm not mad at it.
I just, I, I just don't know.
And maybe they're just making more money
than I understand,but it feels like they cost a lot to me.
They take like three years to promote.

(01:23:48):
And I just and nobodyI haven't heard anybody
come out and be like, oh,this is like the best Transformers ever.
There's always some type of issue either.
Either there's like it feels likeif they get through casting issues,
there's a story issue.
One of the cars ends up racist somehow,and I don't know how
they consistently make that mistake.
And I just am like,okay, is what's happening.

(01:24:10):
And I feel like they don't owe methe books.
They don't owe me the money.
I just give me an accounting thingbecause I can't see where the math is
I don't understandbecause it feels like again, it's
that doesn't feel like it's quick to make.
It doesn't feel likethe money is guaranteed to come back in.
It doesn't feel like it's without issues.
I feel very strong.
I just don'tI don't understand the numbers.

(01:24:32):
So if somebody could share that with me,please email hustling with that e-mail dot
com and let me know what the math. It'sThank you.
So this last thing I have opinions on.
So there is a Street Fighter moviecoming out
next year, supposedly next yeartentatively, but it is coming out.

(01:24:54):
They are releasing the cast.
It is currently filming.
I'm going to read the cast to you,
and then I'm going to tell youthe one thing that I am upset about.
So we have Jason Momoa leadingthis kind of star, leading this cast
as Blanca, which I think is going to bea really cool take on Blanca.
I think it's going to be very I think it'sgonna be very going to be a lot smoother

(01:25:15):
than what Blanca is in the games,and I'm kind of okay with that.
We have, Ryu, who is.
I forgetwhat this man's name is currently,
but he is, from the TV show warrior,which was very good.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
It's a Bruce Lee story. It's very fun.
There is Roman Reigns playing Akuma,which I think is also a very good casting.

(01:25:39):
I think Roman Reigns, I think Roman Reignsneeds to be doing more things in film.
We have Reacher himself.Oh, you have his name.
I'm so, I believe Andrew Koji and AndrewKoji. Yes.
Yes, we have Alan or, you know, Reacher.
Alan Richardson as Guile,which I think Alan Rich.
Alan RitchsonI just as an aside, I love you.

(01:26:00):
You always give himan additional syllable.
I butcher his last name.
You know, you always give.
So we're to find it.
I mean, it's reasonI believe it's ritchson.
I'm going to we're going to look it up.We're going to correct it.
But it it is, it is. Ritchson. Yes, yes.
Alan Ritchson it.
I will say there are more lettersthat it needs as a name.
Okay. So maybe that's what it is.

(01:26:20):
But but I feel like there's a second
say it's now Alan Ritchson.
He's rumored.
Okay.
And, no one Santino or
Cinta Noah Centineo.
Thank you.
That would that would I domuch better with names in real life?
I don't know who it is.
I'm just hereto, again to support as Kim Masters.

(01:26:43):
And this is the one,because I'm just going to stop hiding.
I'm just going to stop burying the lead.This is the one I'm upset about.
50 cent as Balrog.
50 cent as Balrog.
Is it really because he's just bigand tough and black like this?
What it feels like.
Because there are like, much bettermartial artists,
specifically in the boxing arena,that I think

(01:27:05):
are better actors that could have donethis role really well.
Can I name them? No, I won't,
you know, you can't make
and see my I, I'm not mad at it.
I'm not I'm not excited about it.
But I also think this feels likeI feel like
he wanted to do thismore than anybody looking out.

(01:27:25):
And again, I don't know,
I don't have any actual connectionsto 50 cent or whatever,
but this is the type of castingthat feels a bit like,
and this is a this is a bad examplebecause I believe that was better casting.
But Sam Jackson, it is Mace Windu
where it's like, I am a star.

(01:27:46):
I want to be in your movie.
Yes. Put me in your movie,put me in a movie.
And, and it feels like thisfeels like that where
where 50 is like,there's a super movie coming out.
I'm 50 cent.
I want to be in it.
I don't know if that's what happened,I don't know.
And this is, again,speculation and rumors.

(01:28:07):
But yeah, it feels less aboutthey reached out to him
or possibly like, hey, we would like youto cameo or do something in this.
And he was like, no, I want give me that.
That's who I would like to be.
And they were like,no, I was, let's go that.
I just saw.
Who the director, the screenwriter movie is, I'm
I'm not going to try to say his name.

(01:28:28):
I feel I feel like I wouldreally, really mess it up.
But he directed the Twisted Metal series,which was surprisingly good.
It that was a fun time.
So I'm very excited.
I did not know that he was directing this.
That kind of changes something.
This is going to be this
is if it if nothing else, this movieis going to be really fun to watch, right?
He did.
Oh, he directed 62episodes of The Eric Andre Show with him.

(01:28:53):
He also directed five episodes of Dave
I, I think this issomebody who wanted to work with.
I feel like this is a the casting
feels weird only because we don't knowthe actual people involved.
Okay.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Where you're like,yeah, no, that makes sense.
We don't know thatthese people know each other.

(01:29:14):
But just looking at at this kind of space,these are like homies.
These are people who know each other.And so.
So it's less about like, again,what the audience wants and more about
like how this canpeople want to work together.
And so I get it,I don't it'll be what it is.
It'll yeah, it'll be what it be.
But I don't I think the think
we don't have enough information to knowwhy this casting worked out the way

(01:29:37):
that, you know,that's super very valid point right there.
However, I do understand the the anger.
It's like they're actualthey're they're actual actors.
We could you could have got Mike Tyson.
You could have got Mike Tysonwho the character is based off.
Right. But that could bewhy he didn't want to do it.
He's like,because it's not a a super flattering.

(01:29:57):
No. Balrog is
So I could easily see him being like,don't you come to me with that disrespect.
But who knows?
Who knows?
All righty, folks, and now it's timefor us to transition into, work
hard, play hard, sharefavorite hustle with hard to segment.
topic for this
edition of Work Hard to PlayHard is promotion and Networking.

(01:30:20):
So launching this podcastand our respective creative
projects is giving us a renewed focuson promotion networking.
So let's switch it upand talk about the play first.
Tyrone, where do you find joy in promotionand or networking?
I realize that I find joy in promotion
and telling people what I'm working onand then watching them get it,

(01:30:44):
like you're talking to somebodyand then the, like,
light hits themand they start asking questions
and they start like,we want to know more about it.
They want to know
more about how they can helpor what they can do to be a part of it.
That's my favorite thing.
I love talking
and I love talking about epic, to anybodywho will listen except my phone,

(01:31:05):
I will not record a video to talk it.
it's wild.
I wonder, is there somebody you canimagine on the other side of your phone
receiving it? Like.
And I'll put just a giant dollarbill behind it
or you know, it, but that is the.
Yeah, I'm talking to people just notthey just aren't there right now.

(01:31:27):
Immediately.
Yeah. That is a really great idea
and a thing that, like, I should probablybe doing, just like envisioning.
I'm talking to somebody like at the cafe,like, and just telling you
my story, which is,which will probably be easier to do.
Like because I think about it like,you know, this list I get just filled
with so much anxietyabout having to promote and then the even

(01:31:49):
the word of using, havingand not like wanting.
Like I feel like I'm making this thing
so now and I am obligated to do thislike it's a thing that I don't,
that I don't get to dothe thing that I have to do.
And that feels very limitingand frustrating for me.
On a thingthat I wanted to tell people about.
Yeah,
I will say, and I understand,like the always hustling culture has like

(01:32:12):
networking, this immenselytransactional thing where it's like I'm
talking at you, so you give me moneyor support or resources
and that type of networkingfeels just so disingenuous to me.
I can't do it.
And I recognize that
being open to that in a waythat is healthy and mission

(01:32:34):
aligned and visionaligned is something I, I do have to do.
I need to be more open
to being like, our whole relationshipdoesn't have to be transactional,
but being available to the ideathat a transaction could be possible.
Like I struggle.
We talked about this a little bitin the last episode, but you know,
it can be hard to like, sell my services.

(01:32:57):
And I started my
career like, I moved to New York on ain a retail sales space.
I was showing makeup,
good old, benefit cosmetics down therein Bloomingdale, Soho.
Shout out to all the makeup artists,working there, past and present.
I could and I could sell.
I was good at selling, partiallybecause I liked what I was doing.
I got to engage in it,and I really liked that because we were

(01:33:20):
in this retail environment.
The sale was understood.
I wasn't like introducing selling
into just a regular conversation,or I wasn't introducing a transaction.
You were at Bloomingdales.
The transaction was standingnext to a cash register.
The the presence of the transactionis already there.
And so now I can just talk to youabout the thing.

(01:33:40):
And do you want to buy it or not at it?
I find like introducing the sale you're
introducing the transactioninto a conversation.
I'm having to be a challenge, becauseI don't like transactional relationships.
And so I think I am doing myselfa disservice with the binary of either

(01:34:02):
we're building a genuine connectionor selling something like,
I don't know how to merge them to be like,hey, I actually have something
you could buy for methat would be really helpful to you
or that you would be interestedin, or that you could support.
I'm workingon getting more and better at that.
But yeah, the that blended conversationof like we are networking
and supporting each other.

(01:34:23):
And also I have a servicethat you could buy
that would behelpful to you is just part of.
Oh man, I get it, I get it.
It's hard building the
when you said the merging the conversation
all in transactional into thislike cohesive thing is hard.

(01:34:43):
Especially for me because like,I don't like asking people for money,
like like I really don't.
And, but if you got $20, you know,little brother get $20 off you, but.
But I
in this comes back to a lot of,like, internal stuff.

(01:35:04):
But I feel like no matter how good my workis, it's
not worth trouble of getting funded.
And then I talk about it, and I'm like,we ain't got no money with it.
Like, and but there's, like,voice in me is like, well, you don't
this isn't good enough to get any moneyanyway, so
I don't know why you're worried about it.
And so that's a thing that is like,that's thing that always is

(01:35:25):
in the back of my head.
And that's what it that'swhat's really hard about promoting for me
is the, the lack of inner
validation on a project that I love.
So once we get past that barrier, right.
Yeah.
It's I mean, I what's funny isand I've worked in fundraising

(01:35:48):
for a billion years,I understand I've helped artists like
really get their mind around itand like something that is helpful is.
It doesn't have to be worthy to fund it.
And I'm, I want to be clear.
I think your art is worthy.
I think epic is a really great, IPA.

(01:36:09):
I think it's going to be sucha great project when it gets there.
And if the current state of the world
and if if anything has taught meanything, it's that money isn't worth.
Money is like price isn't worth.
Price is just price.
And you can use your price.

(01:36:29):
You can name your price.
You can name the amount of money
somebody can give you to helpmake the thing happen.
And that can actually be
completely devaluedfrom whether or not it's worthy or not.
So you don't have to be worth the amountthat you're asking for
to get the amount you're asking for.
Like, do you remember the dude?
And maybe this wasn'tas big a deal in your space,

(01:36:49):
but it was so superinfuriating on my space.
But many years ago, particularlywhen I was working more directly
in fundraisingor with, with artists, the issue dude
who raised I came upwith the amount of money anymore.
If $17,000 or $40,000 is to make salad,to make the potato salad right.

(01:37:10):
And I understand he had contacts.It was funny.
It was there.
I'm not even mad at it for happening,but it was just like
quality of the project or idea doesnot actually have an impact on.
Whether or not you can raise the money andand and I'm going to
I said that and I'm going to alreadywalk it back a little bit in the sense of

(01:37:32):
they are they have a relationship,but they are not directly correlated.
They are not like if you havea good project, you will make the money.
It is like good projectsincreased your chances of being able
to raise money the more thoughtful andor connected and aligned with the project
or the project and the donor base are,the more likely you are to make money.

(01:37:52):
The more resources in people
you sources you have access to,the more likely you are to make money.
So a quality.
I'm not saying make a shitty projectand then you can get money.
I am saying thathow much money you're able to raise
is only tangentially correlatedto how good the project is.

(01:38:13):
right, like it is.
Better projects have increasedopportunities to make more money,
but you your project doesn't
have to be great to make the moneythat you're trying to talk about.
And I say thatbecause so many people are like,
oh, well, I have to think it's worthy tobefore I consider asking folks for money.
And actually, that's not true.

(01:38:34):
People spend their moneyon bullshit all the time.
All you have to do is present.
The thing I think, with as much integrityand honesty as possible, and let people
invite people into participationin a thing, genuinely.
Do not scam people.
Invite people into the
thing genuinely,and then let them determine

(01:38:54):
if your project is some of the bullshitthey want to spend their money on.
Right.
You'rejust giving them a chance to be like, hey,
somebody and somebody might be like,you know, this is great.
I want to give you more.
Some people might be like,no, this is not for me.
But that doesn't mean that the project,that that response
isn't actually a testamentto the worthiness or value of the project.

(01:39:16):
I got to sit with that. You do.
You got to just sit with that ruminate,
that marinate like neck bone juice
each day.
No, but it's a real thingwhere it's like, it's
how much money you're able to raise.
It's actually, I think, a deeperreflection on your relationships,

(01:39:37):
And your ability to cultivate connections
and your ability to cultivate,
cultivate connection with the peoplewho have means to contribute.
Then it is about the qualityof the product itself,
because people show up for thingsthey care about
or things they want to be connected to,
and it's much harder to,you know, just raise $20

(01:39:58):
at a time via your company networksbased on what folks happen.
But you can do it if people feel investedand in aligned in it.
And people are connected to epic flowersthat people believe in the project.
Everybody who we talked tojust kind of wants to see more of it
and being able to say, okay, well,this is how you can see more of it,

(01:40:21):
I think would be a great,fundraising pool.
I think you can do that in and the factthat you have doubts about how it is
or, you know,just just have some things to work
through is just a real human thing.
You can be working on thatin the background
while you're still asking peoplefor the funds to support it.
You don't have to have all of that solved.Yeah.

(01:40:42):
Before you launch it.
Hey, I'm dopegetting other people to fundraise.
I'm actually it's one of the thingsthat I set my career doing.
I understand how
to get you to fundraise for your project,and then I start talking to me, and I.
I don't know why I am challengedby, like, turning on that.
This is where we need funding or support.
This is where I want you to buy the thingI'm offering.

(01:41:05):
yeah, I don't knowit. It's not necessarily worthiness.
It's just it's like.
Yeah.
It's justit is a bit of a roadblock for me
that I am really trying to actually workthrough.
One of the waysI'm working through it is by naming it.
Because I am good at talking about whatI do,
I'm just not necessarily as goodat closing for myself.
I'm good at closing for others.

(01:41:26):
No, no, no AVC over here.
No, no. Yeah. It's hard to ABC it's hard.
I can't always be closing I,I am good at closing for everyone else.
I'm good at closing for a distance,at a distance.
And I think part of it is actuallybecause, you know, I've talked
in the last episode again, about, taking a lot of space, you know, in my own

(01:41:48):
space, like, feeling in some ways,I can be a pushy personality.
And so I hesitate around that,
closing that salewhen it's about me for fear
being feeling like I'm to push or I'masking too much, or I'm doing too much.
Like I.
I'm happy to do too much inalmost every other sphere of my life.
Yeah, butbut I struggle a bit with the closing.

(01:42:10):
The sale for me.
And working on work, you know,working on that, trying to promote, trying
to just be more transparent about thatas a process, trying to say, hey,
these are the things that I can do withand for you if somebody is interested,
and seeing what we can doand what we can price there.
But it is hard because capitalismare the unofficial third,

(01:42:31):
host of hustle chargesbecause who I've named,
I think in every episode,I love makes it so that third home.
But capitalism
has made it sothat how much money you have access to or
how much money people are willing to giveyou is conflated with work.
And again, price and worth are different.

(01:42:53):
And the more you can separate them,the more you can be like,
hey, this is how much this costs.
This is how much you can payto access it right now.
But that does not mean it is worthI am worth more than that.
I am worth it in my spirit and I'm worth
so much that isn't it is valuable.
And that is not named in money.

(01:43:13):
But you can access some of those skillsfor this many hours.
And that is price.
that both ended upthat was about play cards.
But it also ended up being work, right?Yeah.
When has a random connectionturned into a big opportunity?
I think a random connectionthat has turned into a big opportunity
was when we found our composer,

(01:43:34):
Des Murray, who goes by King Honey?
She uses she her pronouns.
She is based out of Arkansas.
Little Rock,me and her met at a networking event,
at a placethat's no longer here in Brooklyn anymore.
Which is upsetting.
It was a really nice space,
but she was in town for one day,and she came here to visit,

(01:43:57):
and we started talking,and I was like, oh, I'm doing a cartoon.
And, she had mentioned that she makes music.
And I was like, oh, you.
Have you ever thoughtabout doing a theme song?
And she goes,that's funny, because I make movie.
I make music for TV.
Like, I've never done a theme songfor an animated film or animated series.
And then we linked upand we've just we've been

(01:44:19):
we've been riding with each otherever since.
And like dads is like a very importantand like integral pillar to do studios,
whichI am very happy to call her my friend.
But it was a veryit was like a super random
thing that turned into something to wherelike we have a theme song and like that
theme song is going to beeven more developed later on.

(01:44:41):
This year.
So very excited about it.
Meeting are in 2010.
I took an internship at the Public Theaterin New York City,
and I was able to workfor some great people,
but I worked specifically for a man David,though he was my boss and,
he hasbecome just one of my dearest friends.

(01:45:05):
And through him, David really showedme, like, what it meant to be connected
to the New York theater.
To David knows so many people,such a genuine soul
and getting to be his friendafter getting to be his intern.
He really kind of showed me what it meantto be a part of the community.
And, you know, 15 years later,so many people

(01:45:28):
I have built working relationshipswith him, but professional relationship
with have built friendshipsand made projects and all of that
kind of all can circle back to youhaving that one internship
in the right building,under the right person.
At that moment, and it was I
my goal was really just to bein the Public theater.

(01:45:51):
I actually did not care what departmentI was in.
And, there were, you know,a lot of folks really wanted to be
in the artistic departments,which was great.
But,
you know, there was an open internshipin the Capital Projects Department,
which is, you know, buildingsand permits and paperwork.
And I was like, I'm in the building.
That's, frankly, that's all it matters.

(01:46:13):
If I can get in there, if I can get inthere, I can take care of the rest.
If I get in there, I can figure it out.
And I got to meet some really wonderfulpeople.
Not, not just David, but
other a few other collaborators,some really great friends.
And Darren, to just so many,
folks in that intern classI got to work with.
Yeah, I got to, work.

(01:46:35):
I think people have often left that space,
so getting being in that buildingat that moment, was ideal.
But I really think back to.
David
continued willingness to kind of invite meinto his social circle
allowed me to feel like
a true participantin the New York theater.

(01:46:58):
And that has,yeah, has been a relationship that is
that has been really, really fruitful
in a variety of waysthat I never would have imagined.
Just walking into the public,working on plans, projects.
Yeah, that's really awesome.
Yeah.
Like I also, again, you know, as a personwho also knows David Lowy,
I didn't knowDavid Lloyd was like that guy.

(01:47:18):
Like, that's, David knowsmore people than than most men.
And as just one of the generous,one of the most generous spirits
on the planet,he is, he brings people together
in ways that are active and funand interesting.
Yeah.And so yeah, shout out to David Bowie.
Shout outs David. Lovely shout outs.

(01:47:39):
Shout out to the whole charity.
There's only two people
who've gone through that spaceand people who are doing
just really great things in the world,but like,
yeah, people who are willing to open uptheir networks and friendships,
to, to bring people into it.
To me just may not feel like,insiders at the moment.

(01:48:00):
Yeah.
It's just our gift,you know, invite people into your spaces,
open up your circle. I'mnot saying you have to.
Again, we learn the lessons of gender.You don't have to let everybody in.
you have to let everybody in.But let some people in.
So be use your discernment to understandwho you can invite into your spaces
to keep generating more energy,more ideas, more connections.

(01:48:22):
I think this concept of likeno new friends has like
has kind of crushedthe idea of like being invited in spaces
where you don't necessarily know you wouldbe or like, or opening your circle like.
So opening your circle to peoplethat you might not necessarily
open your circle to on a, on alike a regular way.

(01:48:43):
I'm all for the same and like to go backto, to reestablish myself boxed
discernment like
people say no new friends because theydon't actually know how to be friends.
I think, and it's like, okay, yes,somebody might have mistreated you.
You might also have mistreated somebody.
Do you actually know what it means to bea friend? Yeah.

(01:49:04):
Do you know how to show up?
Do you know how to vet your friendships?
Like, I'm not sayingmeet somebody in an hour later,
give them the keys to your housein your pen.
I'm saying, like, build the relationship.
Let's go do a little bit of a thing
if we're going to collaborate,maybe let's start with a small project.
If we're like, like role.
Well your your or not.

(01:49:26):
So develop the relationship.
I guess this is where I keep going.
Like start small, start it a little bit.
Let your friendships grow overhowever long they need to grow.
But so many people,I think, rush into intimacy.
And I'm really talking about, like,creative and ideological intimacy.

(01:49:48):
Without any thought process.
No. Like. Okay. Well, no.
This is my friend we met, and, like,this is now like my person.
And I'm like,do you actually know enough about
how they go to the worldfor them to be that your person?
I'm not saying theyyou can't know that. I'm saying.
But do you know, have you askedhave you really explored

(01:50:08):
who they areor have you offered them who you are
to actually build a real relationshipthat has genuine stakes,
that has genuine connections,that can be helpful?
And so, like, no new friends,it means for me, no new ideas,
no new environments, no new stimulus.

(01:50:31):
It's like, no, I love new friends.
What is what new friends?
What do the kids do now? Clocked it.
Oh, this Clocked it. Clocked it. Yeah.
I want new friends
and I'm also really clear about,like, the level of access
I'm willing to participate in the, well,a level access I'm willing to to give.

(01:50:53):
Because, again, discernment.
Discernment is the unofficial themeof today's episode because it is like.
How can you doyou even know how to make new friends?
Do you know howto take care of the friendships you have
and connected in to the themeto networking promotion?
It's just like so many peoplethrow people away

(01:51:15):
because they feel like they aren'tstrategic or valuable in the moment,
and they aren'tnurturing the relationship.
They don't actually knowhow to be friends. Yeah.
Or be contactsor be in healthy relationship.
And so they're like, well,what can I get from you?
Oh, well, nothing.So then I'm not going to show up for it.
And it's like, that's not how that works.

(01:51:36):
And you can have some transactions.
so you can ask for some things,but you can't just extract,
extract, extract and then be like,well this person wasn't good to me.
When do you feel most confidenttalking about your.
Oh, I love this question.
I feel most confidenttalking about my work when I am in a space

(01:51:58):
that I feel not only comfortable in,but invited into.
Like,it is definitely about the surroundings.
Like talking about it at the cafe,talking about it with like the D&D crew,
like, like these are things that like,I feel extremely comfortable asking,
like or not asking, but like discussingand answering questions

(01:52:19):
and like talking to somebodyfor 3.5 hours about magic systems
like,
like that's when I feel the most
confident is like when when I'm in a spacethat is that I am accepted
and invited in and also when people startasking questions about it,

(01:52:39):
like there's like a hookwhere you know, somebody is like,
but what if this person did thisand I'm like, great, now we can.
Now you've activated my chat card.
And so now I'm going to talk to youfor the next four hours
about why this person has to do itthis way.
And, it's extremely really fun to do and.
Yeah. And I feel my most confidentin, in that way.

(01:53:00):
And as I'm saying it now, I'm realizingthat, like, I'm depriving my confidence
from not having these conversationsin my videos.
That's what that message did out of here.
Are we learned a lesson?
Yeah.
This is a real I really appreciate that.
And because I think my answer is similar.
But yeah, it is. It is like,what is this space?

(01:53:21):
This has a scene where I've been invitedor I'm asked to talk about the thing or,
or wherealso everybody's here to talk about
you know, likeit doesn't have to be a singular focus.
But I do like like,I like the idea of networking events,
as long as people are also talkingabout some other things
because it's like, oh,we are here to promote.

(01:53:42):
So I'm here to ask youabout your projects.
And I love I really lovehearing about people's projects.
I love hearing about what they're doing.
And I will say, I don't knowif this is tip or trick or whatever,
I love hearing people talk about the thingthey're passionate about.
I hate hearing the thingthat feels just like a pitch

(01:54:02):
where it's where where it feels likeyou've just like, stacked the right pieces
in orderto try to extract something from me,
as opposed to telling meabout a thing that you love.
Which I understandcan be a hard distinction,
but sometimes it's like,do you even care about this thing?
Or did you just, like,put the words in the right order
that you thought would, like,get money out of the money tree?
It's like.
Or is this like the thing that you like?

(01:54:25):
I love hearing people talk aboutwhenever they're excited.
And so I love pitching in places
where everybody gets to talkabout the thing they love,
where everybody getsto, yeah, everybody's here is like, I'm
going to have a moment to bragabout the thing I like,
and I'm also going to get to hearall the things you like.
And then somewhere in there,we're going to all
get to be there for each otherand talk about what all of our,

(01:54:47):
all of our, like, excitement is together.
We're going to talk about, like,making work together.
And that is, when I feel most confidenttalking about the work,
I also love to go backto the audience thing.
I also love, like, keynotes.
I like being ableto, like, talk for a long time.
Surprise, surprise.
About a thing.

(01:55:10):
But I like being ableto have this kind of,
I won't say under interrupted,because I do like feedback.
I like audience back and forth,but being able to like, really shape
an arc of like from beginning to end, howwe got to a conclusion or an idea
or a resource like that Ted talk style,
you know, those are shorter,but like just being able

(01:55:31):
to take somebody on a whole journey.
I really like that, especially, you know,with given enough time to really,
like, craft that journey to the theatermaker slash storyteller.
I me like, loves being ableto have that uninterrupted moment to.
Walk the journey through for folksI loved.
I love having like having thatkeynote style conversation

(01:55:52):
where somebody allows youto just build the whole story,
you, and you're just like,and they're just sitting there just.
Yes. What then what happened
then. Right.
And I'm like I love,I love stuff like that.
And I know some people like don't liketalking about their work especially like

(01:56:14):
that's the thingI've definitely found in work
living in New Yorknow is that the idea of collaboration
at such an early stage,people don't want to do.
People don't want to talkabout what they're working on.
They're like, it's not ready yet.And I believe that.
But how do you nowlike how it could be like

(01:56:35):
and I think it's the fear of like,you know, the disingenuousness of people
and that frightens people that, you know,somebody could take somebody's
idea and then, which is a real thingyou have to worry about.
But also, like weI think we are, at least in my circle,
we are in a, a beautiful timewhere nobody really knows about us,

(01:56:57):
where we can talk about our ideas openlywithout fear of somebody taking something
and like, help and build and collaborateto make something better
or attempt to make somethingfeel more finished or more complete.
I like to practice
something I've jokingly in my headcalled like copyright invisibility,

(01:57:19):
where it's like if I talk about my ideaenough in enough
places, people are going to knowit's my yeah, so you can't.
So stealing it is going to be harder
because it wasn't a secret inside thatnobody knows.
I talked to now, Courtney talked about iton the podcast last week.
She's going to talk about it next week.
Somebody I heard you probably heard metalk about whatever the idea is.

(01:57:40):
Sometimes that is helpful, whereit's like, oh, yeah, that's the thing.
Then Courtney's talk about that,she did like,
so I do appreciate that.
Or like, sometimes it's justI don't keep it secret because.
And nobody knows it's mine.
And so just being able
to share it with people can introduce
the idea as you areis even in its imperfect state.

(01:58:03):
All righty, folks,I think we have neared the end
and this episode of hustle with the heart
is, we got to get into it really talking
about networking, promotion,talking about our creative process.
Yeah.
You know, shout out to our sibling,shout outs,
Wednesdayand Funky Adams and Reggie Miller.

(01:58:24):
All right.
Duncan on each other, the And, yeah.
Got to talk aboutwhat are your thoughts on the next bond?
What are your thoughts on, the StreetFighter casting?
Please let me know what the StreetFighter casting makes you feel like.
Alright.
Let us know.

(01:58:44):
At Hustling with Harges at gmail.com.
Repeat.
That's Hustling with Harges at gmail.com.
Tune in to our next episodewhere we're going to, as always,
keep the mountains and the mediaand really wanting to focus on success.
What does it mean to us?

(01:59:04):
How do we define it?
Just playing around with like,what would success look like as a whole?
What happens when we win?
What happens when we win?
I love it, not if we win.
When we when wewhen we doing amazing turn one.
Invite everybody to follow us on themsocials.
Absolutely, man.You already know what I'm about to say.

(01:59:26):
Go ahead.
Hit that InstagramTikTok at Hustling with Harges.
We are out here, love life,
doing all the great things,being together in community and unity.
We love this family.
We love this concept.
I'm so glad that y'all are rocking with uson episode four.
Episode five is coming!
We about to do some big I know what it is.

(01:59:48):
Absolutely. I don't know,
but it's going to be big.
And you got like and y'all going to likeif you have
if you have thoughts againemail us Hustling with Harges at gmail.com.
Or follow us on on socials.
Give us the shout outsand we will see y'all around the way.
Yes bye bye.

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