We Learned Good: On Creative Training and Education

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Delicious vibes. it's happening.

(00:03):
then I will be there.
not really Type-A.
That somebody is me.
All And again, I didn't want to bein this conversation anyway.
Yikes. I know the secret now.
There's still there's just too much of youand not enough of you
are at the same time.
Hey, y'all.

(00:23):
Welcome to this episode of HustlingWith Harges.
I'm Courtney, theater maker, sewist
knitter, nonprofit strategist,and certified TV nerd.
I'm here with my co-creatorand real life sibling.
Let's go to everybody.
I'm Tyrone, motion designer,3D artist, animator, self-proclaimed
king of the nerds, and cardcarrying films to have.
And I'm yes, I'm the younger sibling,which means I bring the innovation

(00:46):
and the petit.
This podcast is our creative living room,a space
for deep convos, pop culture mess,entrepreneurial chaos, and sibling joy.
Whether you're a maker,a dreamer, a burnt artist or just nosy,
this show is for you.
Let's build something dope together.
So pull up, subscribe extra cousinand let's get into Hustling With Harges.

(01:07):
Big dog, Courtney, how are you feeling?
Feeling good.
I am, I am feeling things.
Things are being felt.
Mostly positive. Definitely on an upswing.
I felt like I had a kind of rough week,but I am feeling good.
Yeah. Feeling great. How are you. Yo.

(01:30):
If you had to be
green, black and hip hop for yearfor a long time for that one.
Well that's right. We look good.
So now I am doing well.
I am feeling the transition of the seasonsand ready feeling.
I feel like I'm.
I've been perpetually.

(01:50):
I feel like something is coming.Something it's getting.
It feels closer. Yeah.
I just gotta figure out what that isand, like, be ready for it.
How about you, bro? Where is your head at?
I feel really good.
I feel very excitedand motivated about life
and dreams and pursuing pursue it.
That's not a word.

(02:11):
The pursuit, the rest of the sentence.
There we go. I was like, I need, you know,the rest of the sentence.
I could tell you what wordyou're trying to put in there.
No, my brain just had or complete reset.
But I'm very I'm very excited aboutthe future, things coming in the future,
the both the known unknownsand the unknown unknowns.
Just vibing in the ether

(02:33):
and vibes.
Yes, yes. Vibes.
Delicious vibes. Money.
Good money again. No.
Yes. I'm still riding the wave.
You know, humility is for seconds.
So let's keep seconds. Yes, yes.
Money, money. Not many guys.
That's just become my own.

(02:54):
I don't know if you can me, myself,but my brain has me, made me.
Just every time something positiveis happening, man again.
Money again.
But again.
Absolutely. That your money gun is huge.
I would sayit's like definitely like a t shirt.
Definitely a t shirt cannon.
Full size Super Soaker style double, but
like not double barrel, but like doublehandled like an old school.

(03:16):
You got a rack that is so great.
Because if you're going to have a moneygun, I need it.
I want it stacked. And what?
That money gun to have a magazinebaby, don't I don't know.
I need Americato get all quiet and anti gun on me.
Now when you talk about the money gun,do it.
Give me, give me America's money. Gun.
You go go go go go go go. Do it right.

(03:38):
How dad did hit South America.
Does it work pretty well for us? So fuck.
Well done.
Well, Iron man reference to start the day.
Well, way to go.
Well done.
Love it, but I'm doing really good.
I'm very excited about this episode.
It's our learning episode.
Yes. Talking about, like,learning in our educational experiences.

(03:59):
I'm excited about that. It has been.
It's been a journey.We're going to have some stories.
We're going to see how mucht we get into because.
Yeah.
Because just as
wildly educational institutionsare a thing
or thing that exist in the world,that happens there.
Yeah.
And some of it is goodand some of it is not as great

(04:23):
as good. Okay.
All right. Cool.
But yeah. So get it, get into it.
Let's get into it. Let's get into it.
So we're going to start off as we arewant to do with our sibling shout outs
blah blah blah blah sibling shout outs.

(04:46):
You. Amazing I love it.
We have actual music, but I do waitfor Tyrone sound effects when I say that.
Sibling shout out,sibling shout out dance.
And now I have thethe kind of Euro version of this.
Like somebody in like some type of,

(05:07):
you know, all latex suit is goingsibling shout out and like that.
Like there's just like a flashing lightsomewhere.
Yeah.
All my DJ friends take that clip,turn that to a bit, put it in your set.
Let's go for it.Let's just see what happens.
Sibling shout out.
All right. So for real,our actual sibling shout outs.
There's actually a bit of a theme heretoday.

(05:29):
We don't normally, necessarily have a theme.
But we talked about it
and so we wanted to it's, there's goingto be kind of a collective shout out.
And then to representatives of the theme.
And so in celebration of the Wayans
family, being inductedinto the NAACP Hall of Fame,
but all so many,so many Wayans doing so many things.

(05:50):
In fact, their televisions for so long,just making
just positive choices,which is just so much of our humor
is influenced by the Wayans,the different sets
just sit in in different spaces,and I I'm an event.
I'm going to make something I'm goingto I'm going to bring you all close.
Hold your handwhen I say this and call this.

(06:12):
I know what this is.
I've never watched White Chicksand I feel like I am in a minority,
and I know that I just couldn'tI couldn't get to it.
The the uncanny valley of it.
I had really complex ABC.
I very complex feelings about likewhat would be the youngest Wayans
the way Marlon and Shawn partiallybecause I think I'm going to say it

(06:34):
and I go on record, I have deep respectfor their ability to work
and and do really complex things.
However, particularly Marlon Wayans.
I actually think turned into a rantthat I didn't know I was going to do.
I actually think Marlon Wayans is oneof the greatest actors, right generation.
And we're going to talk about why youI believe in it, truthfully.

(06:54):
I also think that he definitely picks
it, chooses where when he's going to actand when he's not going to act.
And I, I think this actually is connectedto the training.
Like as an actor, I do get frustratedbecause sometimes I'm like, I'm
going to watch him give a deeply nuanced,interesting, hilarious performance.

(07:15):
Or he's about a clown for 90 minutesand you don't know
before you buy a ticketwhat what you're going to get.
And I realized I love watching him act.
I hate watching him clown.
And I say this in in disrespect.
I say that not to disrespect clowns.
Clowning is a tradition.It's a whole thing.

(07:36):
But it is sometimes where it's like,oh, I can tell you, you're just
you're just giving sillyas opposed to character.
And I am frustrated.
He doesn't care.
Marlon Wayansdoesn't care what I want him to do or not.
And so this is this is my own thing.
I find it every timeI've I've seen him in spaces
and I watch him give like performancesthat have broken my heart

(07:58):
and performances that were groundedin, in even, even the ridiculous ones.
I actually really think he doesa great job and like,
don't be a menace to South Central.
Are drinking your juice in the hood,
but there are other pieceswhere you're like, I was like, you just.
Played it for laughsin a way that wasn't interesting.
And I find it like when he's disengaged,I find it bothersome.

(08:19):
That is why. Interesting take.
I don't know if I've ever seen him in
something that makes me feel like bothers
some in the sense of like, I feel likehis clowning is just a different hat.
I could see itand again, is is my issue that he is.
He doesn't have to be any different.

(08:41):
I'm telling you what I what I know,
I'm telling you how I feel.
And again, I, I love watching him actin real things so much.
Yeah.
That like and and I think, frankly, it'ssome of the reasons
why I thought the Wayansbrothers was hit or miss.
I love that show.
And there are a lotI had some really great experience
watching that show,

(09:01):
and sometimes I was like,I don't think you're here today.
And like, this is my ownparasocial nonsense, I'm sure.
But there are times where I'mjust like seeing.
It's like, oh, I see technique.
And then other times I see this engagementand there's something that I can connect
with where I'm like, I
when I believe you,I will follow you to the end of the earth.
And the second I don't believe you,I am disinterested.

(09:23):
That is that'sthat's also shows me at least the, the,
what I what's the word I want to say?
Your expertise in the craft itselfto find those nuances.
In his performances,to understand that, like this.
And you might have an off day today,especially on a, like, a, like,

(09:44):
you know, a serialized sitcomlike that to, to to catch it
in between things to be like,oh, this is not, you're not,
you're not feeling this as much as as youwere, you know, 2 or 3 episodes ago.
Whatever happened on that dayand I know I, I think that's a very
you're one of the few peoplewho I, who I feel like can say that

(10:06):
and truly mean it as like a feedback thingand not so much of like
this is just kind of shucking and jiving,right?
Yeah.I they're just he's too smart for that.
I've watched him.
He's like and they are interviewshe's given where
especially now on histhis press tour for him like he's talking
more about past stuffand so that you know, he's
kind of all over my news feed right now.

(10:28):
But watching him talk aboutthe craft is interesting.
He's so very intentional.
And I think that's both a byproduct of himbeing a really smart person
and also the legacy of being what
it nine out of ten in a performing familyor something like that.
Like, I know he ishe and Shawn are the babies.
I just can never rememberwhich one is the.

(10:49):
I think Shawn is the youngest, youngest,probably if he is the second youngest.
This is the thingthe internet could tell me.
I'm not looking it up rightnow, slightly irrelevant.
But, but watching the level of careand intention in the ways
he talked about it, he was talking about,like, building power.
Tap that character for, Norbit. Right.
There's a bit of him talking about it,and it's like what he was trying and why.

(11:12):
And that bit is funny.
It's ridiculous.
And they're just.
Other times it's like,I don't think you care here.
one of the reasons why some of the laterscary movies I don't like, like
I've watched a lot of MarlonWayans acting.
I want to be really clear about this.
I also want a name that, like, I again,deep respect for the legacy and family.

(11:32):
And again, I do.
I started by saying,I think he's one of the greatest actors,
and whether or not you're goingto get that level of performance,
this arbitraryin a way that like, frustrates me.
I'll say, is it is it a thingthat we because, you know, we also put
and this is not to, deterand I love that we've just gone into this.

(11:53):
Oh in the start out so good right.
We but we do this same thingwith athletes in the sense of like,
if we're going to play play hardevery time and sure.
And I you know, I'mnot an I'm not an athlete fan.
So I don't knowI can't watch it and see it.
And there are other actors
who I don't like because I also thinkthey're phoning it in in different ways.

(12:17):
And I think I why I find why I again,
I am personally disappointedhe can do what he wants.
This is not I'm not calling anybody out.
I'm not asking anybody be canceled.
I'm not saying any I'm telling you about.
My experience is in that in some waysit's like watching.
It's like having likeyour favorite flavor of ice cream, but

(12:38):
every like, fourth carton is bad, right?
And so the risk is like, I like it so much
when it's good, but there's a chance that
it's going to be the worstwhen it's going to be the like and I.
And so the level of inconsistency,
it it is, it's a stronger relationshipthat it should be.

(13:00):
And so I still mournI still mourning the Marlon
Wayans, Richard Pryor Pryor pickthat we never got, but we're getting
I know we've seen some clips on it,but it's it's it's happening.
We're getting then I will be there.
We're it's how we'll be in it.
We're gonna watch it.
It needs it I, I would love it.

(13:20):
And then you'll see me on this very samepodcast being like, you know Marlon
for Oscar, like I'll have I hate and just stop just whatever's on my shirt.
Just like his face on the Oscar.
Like, right just in there and.
Yeah, right. It's I love it.
It is it because again, I like his abilityto do it is I have no doubt.

(13:44):
And we didn't even do thissilly shout out.
Just started talking,but very excited that the way his family.
What we're not even talking about,that's right.
They were the inspiration.
So we're excited for the Wayans family.
Congratson getting into the NAACP Hall of Fame.
But my sibling shout out the theme aroundthis really was other like,
you know, black entertainment, legacies.

(14:06):
And so I, wanted to shout out the smilethat,
Jurnee, Jesse, Jojo, Jaz, Jake and Jacqui
and I like, love, I love the small actsfor a variety of reasons.
You know, justice for Jesse.
I have not watched the documentary,but I also was like, pro his story,

(14:28):
I believed it, I was like,some of the stuff is nonsense.
And so I'm glad a lot of people did.
Yeah.
And I'm glad that the documentaryis really, like shining light
on what was there,but also like to be a family
that has been working consistentlyfor a very long time.
Like I just generation their ability,right?
Their abilityto like for all their siblings

(14:50):
to have spacesin the entertainment industry.
For us, for folks to be working foras long as they have to have a sitcom
where I believe five of the six of themwere on that sitcom insane.
So like just that capacity to have long
to truly maintain their integrity,to maintain a connection to each other.

(15:10):
So yeah.
So shout out to the smile.
Let's I mean, Tyrone, my
my sibling shout out is also a family.
Specificallyif I tell you a TV family as well.
I chose the Morris.
So Tia Tamara ties and toI want to make sure I got that right.
I think it's TV or baby or but I again

(15:33):
another another family we've seen on TVfor 30 years
who we who we love and enjoy and embracein the community.
I do love me some Taj Maorias a small faded
as in the haircut light skin child.
Smart guy was a smart guy.

(15:53):
Was my TV show okay?
Loved it. I loved every minute of it.
He's a smart guyand I know the whole thing on his channel.
Jason Weaver, shout out to Omar Gooding.
Like everybody inthat show was perfect also.
Yeah.
So we're getting another anothersibling dynasty. No.

(16:14):
Dynasty.
I also want to do an unofficial shout out
to Essence Atkins, who I think has workedwith everybody we just named.
100%.
I just, I just I
was like, wait, actually,the linchpin of that.
Right. Because like, wait a second.
I think she was on every whether it workedin every one of these shows.
So just I just shout outwho is another person

(16:37):
who I believe does not get the flowersthat she deserves?
As, as like a character actress,
like black 90s sitcoms.
When you were doing this, you were like,okay, is essence free.
Can we get essence?
If we can't, we'll find like,we'll get we'll figure it out.
We'll be there.

(16:57):
But it has been working. Yes.
If essence Atkins, essence Atkinsis there,
we are going to getwe're going to get three seasons period.
Absolutely. Professional.
Professional. Okay. She shows up.
She seems to Josh I'm sureshe's an EP on a couple of those shows.
We didn't even know we got it.
Just shout out shout out and I beshe's got a sibling in in these things.

(17:20):
But I feel like she's playedlove interest sibling.
She's been related to every personwe've named in this segment,
including a Wayans, I'm sure.
I'm certain.
No, she was just in Davidwhen she's in this house.
Oh yeah.
But I also think she did, something elsewith with Marlin.
I just there's no way.
There's no way to say I love it. Stands out.

(17:41):
It's Atkins.
So much.
Yeah.
So shout outs to the smaller shout outsto the Maori, shout outs to the Wayans,
and, Closing out our sibling shout outs,
with our dynamic duos of dynamic duos.
Countdown.
So today we are on daynine of our Dynamic Duos countdown,
where we want, one both either of these sets

(18:05):
our favorite sets of creative siblingsto join us, and those creative siblings
are Phylicia Rashad and Debbie Allen.
And or, Willow and Jaden Smith.
And, you know, we're getting their nineepisodes in.
Energy is out there.
They're going to want to talk to us.I believe in it.
They're readywholeheartedly believe in it.

(18:26):
They're coming to talk.
We're going to talk aboutwhat it means to be creative siblings,
what it means to build a careerwith the person who you got
to come into the world eitherwith or very closely to way.
Yeah, yeah.
So amazing.
Day nine shout out day nine get to us.
Yes yes.
Feel it.

(18:46):
Get manifest.
And with thatwe're gonna shift into our main moment.
Now is the time for the main moment.
The part of the showwhere we dig a little deeper.
Whether it's creativity, culture,chaos or care.
This is where we pull the threadand see what unravels.
May moment.
Unity.
So today's main moment really is about,

(19:09):
education.
We're really trying to talkabout training and education.
And what were some of the educational,experiences that helped inform us
what, types of trainingare we trying to continue to do?
What are the trainings that have impactedus? It's.
Yeah, really.
You know, we've talked a lot about, like,our current creative processes,
but I think it's worth it to divedeep into what are the

(19:31):
what got us here training programsand processes that got us here.
Yeah.
Or at least that we pursued.
I love, so yeah. So I'm going to open it up.
I'm going to put Tyrone on the spot.We're gonna start with him.
When you look backat your formal education,
what do you feelit actually gave you beyond the degree?
This is a great question.
You know, provide some context aroundwhat's education that education was.

(19:51):
This is a great question.
I also I went to two
technical art schoolsthat no longer exist.
Just for profit education.
For profit education for the loss.
Okay.
I had a very interesting thatbut with that
I had a very interesting like educationgoing to like,

(20:14):
going to these for profit wise,
which is it's it's own thing.
Dealing with it.
But what it really gave me
was the confidence, the connections
and the like creative pathwaythat I have now.

(20:34):
Like through.
I'm not giving no love to the school.
So through my second university
I went to is where I metmy now business partners
and best friends, Dee and Corey,who you hear we talk about a lot.
Who are the Juice Crew?We started a juice together.
We started epic together. We.

(20:55):
This is this is the core.
And I found and,you know, we met in college and it
you know, meeting them completely changedthe trajectory of my life.
So like, what education really gave meand what I feel
it really gave me was communityin a way that I felt.
Like both the scene,not that I didn't, wasn't seen at home

(21:17):
or within my alreadykind of built community,
but to have a dream of being an animatorand like being a showrunner
and then talking to somebody and like,oh, I have that same dream.
It completely shatters so many barriersthat I don't have to, like,
explain things like it's just the, the,the beauty

(21:38):
and the beauty in communitythat connects with you on that way.
It goes far beyond,it goes far beyond a degree.
It's. It's what?
Yes. What I what the thing I brought most,I learned most from school
was networking and network and buildingcommunity.
That's amazing.
It's. You just never know.
I, I have a strongI have several strong opinions.

(22:00):
Surprise, surprise.
But Ialso think that one of the most valuable,
I think one of the most valuable thingsfrom a creative education is the ability
to connect with other peoplewho are also creative
and to have time to practice it,
to work on it I think one of the thingsthat I think is undersold

(22:20):
around colleges or universities
that do creative trainingis just the ability to think
and work on this thing for hoursevery day,
you know, talk about it
like I it's regardless of training.
And I do want to talk about trainingand specifics and,
and and I'll answer the question,but I do want to name that like college.

(22:43):
I want to sayit doesn't have to be university setting,
but particularlytalking about creative education.
So, you know, conservatories,even the for profit universities
that still exist that that are runningethically if they exist.
just theability to say, here is my degree,
we are going to talk and work and thinkabout this creative process every day.

(23:05):
We're going to break down pieces of it.
We're going to offer you toolsand practice rooms
and other people who have expertise
who are talking about it and space.
We're going to give you assignmentsso you have two weeks to do a thing,
but now you have that is your homeworkis to sit and be creative and

(23:25):
and manage the prompt, manageyour skills, use your resources.
Working towardthe prompt like that is so valuable.
Just having the time toto think creatively with a goal
and get feedback is just, underrated.
It's under pitched is what the value isbecause you get out of those spaces

(23:47):
and now you have to figure outnot only how to build the discipline,
like how the practice of like,I'm going to make this creative space,
but having time to do that and then,
you know, figure out when to goget groceries and when to go do laundry
and when to, like, be an adultis so much harder.
So yeah, I just want to shout out,just like

(24:08):
I think almost regardless of how good
the institution is having time
and some space, and the goal is,I think a third, frankly,
of the value of a creative education,I want to double down on that.
You said the,you know, have doing the creative process

(24:30):
while also living in the sense of like thethe school
I went to did not have traditional dormsor a traditional campus life.
So I was also living in an apartment,being an adult, having to go
grocery shopping and go to work, whilealso having to be a creative.

(24:52):
So the it kind of
I mean, that's one thingthat I will say that it did.
It prepared me to be a creative professional, which I will be forever grateful for.
You got it?
I you know, I understand it and it itbut it, it
it taught mehow to be a creative professional.
Through the lens of like,okay, you have yes,

(25:16):
you have two weeks, but,you know, then I also have rent.
And there was a time where I was workingtwo jobs and, and going to two schools
and like, like there was a time
where all my time was taken and like,I still tried to figure out,

(25:36):
you know, where writing stories
in the management office of Tim Hortons.
Well, we're well, it's you know, it's
my munching on ten bittimbits, munching on timbits and slamming,
slamming espresso
hot chocolates at four in the morningbecause yikes.

(25:58):
Because you have class at nine.
And so you drive, you drive the hour
to get to class early,and you sleep in your car
while your heart is racingbecause you've had three cyclists
and you're just like,I, if I can get 20 minutes,
I can get 20 minutes.
I'm good.

(26:19):
That is I that part is not my journey.
But I get it, I, I, I support it.
That was not my journey.
No, I so, so yeah.
So looking at my formal education,it gave me a lot.
But I would also say it wasI was a very traditional student.
Right.
And I will also name like like I'llbe able to be a person in person again.

(26:40):
I'm bringing you close again,thinking we're in it.
You know, 41 years old.
I'll never hold your hand.
Maybe I'm asking you to hold my hand.
I'm 41 years old.
I've always been a good student.
I'm definitely, In many ways,the stereotype of the black
or brown, firstborndaughter of a firstborn daughter,

(27:02):
you know, I like my mom is,
she's actually the youngest, but, like,definitely the firstborn daughter energy.
And I believe if my not I'm sayingmy grandmother was also first my daughter
and I name that because that just exists.
That shows up. Right?
You talk about like I'ma third generation family manager.
Even if I didn't have to be, you know,

(27:23):
you know, just like it'sjust just who I am.
And I am probably, again,
at 41, realizing that, like,there is some neuro divergence,
that because I was good at school,nobody ever talked about and there are
probably just needsof being a Type-A person.

(27:43):
And I'm not even I'mnot I'm I'm not really Type-A.
Although every time I say that,there's somebody who looks at me
like, girl,okay, that's my body is me. All
but I, I,
I say that to say thatlike school was never the challenge.
I'm somebody who likes school.
I did go to schoolon an academic scholarship.

(28:04):
I did like and I playing.
I bring all that up to say that, like,there are things about school
that I never had to fightthat made it easier.
And so going to schoolfor theater performance,
or for undergrad,I went for theater performance.
The feedback I got around

(28:25):
kind of going was very much like,but you're so smart.
And so there was a kind of theme,
feeling like I'msomehow wasting an education
by going into theater performance, which is, you know, kind of funny.
I, I don't believeI don't believe it was a waste.
But it's also funny to be like,well, tell the story of how

(28:46):
I went on one audition as an adult,but that's a separate thing.
Anyway, you wroteyou're about to say something.
I was going to ask, and maybe you're goingto answer this, but like, you know,
the brain had to pop in
as the topfive smartest people I've ever met.
How didit make you feel when people were like,

(29:07):
you're going into theater,but you could do anything?
Like, how did that make you feel?
You know, again, to it.
We're all close for sitting close.
All right.
Very close to my heart. Moment right now.
We're in here.
You know, it just. We're our family.
And you know the absolute shitout of me to it.

(29:29):
It did.
And it's not because I get.
And, you know, I probably have more gracefor it now as a grown up understanding
that, like, 2018 year oldsmaking those types of decisions
have no idea what they're talking about.
And so I get that I used to take it farmore personally than I do,
but the thing that like, drives menuts about it is
even though I was 18,even though it's young,

(29:52):
you started that sentenceby saying how smart I am, right?
So like, there's a thing that you seethat I have the ability
to make reasonable decisionsand, and well-thought-out decisions.
Like you,you brought that into the conversation.
I didn't start that way. You did.
And so then to say that to meand then assume in the second

(30:14):
half the decisions,
I don't know what I'm talking about,that I didn't reason this out in any way.
I would that was what would annoy me.
The likethe sentence doesn't have internal logic.
You started by saying thatI am smart and again,
I didn't want to be in this conversationanyway. You start it. Whoever you
write
like I didn't come to youtalking about me.

(30:35):
You gave me talking about me.
I'm just minding my business.Eating. Yeah, I was doing this thing.
You over here talking to me, you know,and that that senior year
question was like,oh, where are you going? To school.
What are you doing?
I if you don't know,then you don't know me enough.
So we haven't.
Why are we talking to me anyway?
Whatever. I would let it go.
I thought I let it go more than I have,apparently.

(30:56):
What's that?
What's the Andre Brown reason?
That's clearly struck a nerve with me,
because it's.
Absolutely.
So, no, but, yeah, to start at, like,you recognize that I have the capacity
to make reasonable decisions,
or at least well thought out decisions,because that's why you started at you.

(31:17):
But you're so smart. And then.
But you'rebut you could do anything I could.
This is do you also understandwhether anything means this is included?
This is included in the anythis is included in the anything.
the other thing,this is a bit of a tangent,
but I think it's worth naming is,I went to University of Michigan.

(31:37):
Grew up in Michigan.
Why this is relevant is like, you know,Michigan has Michigan as a state,
has a very strong sports culture.
And there's also it hasit also has a lot of colleges,
if I'm not mistaken, likeit has a lot of schools, for a state.
And so because of that,it is just very common
because of a strong sports, culture,because of a strong college culture

(31:58):
to where your alma materor to where sports things.
Right.
It just kind of regardlessof whether or not you went.
Wearing where I.
Yeah, is just wearing sportsparaphernalia.
It's just not, it's.
Yeah. It's not an uncommon thing.
I'm sure that's truealmost in a lot of places.
But I'm saying specifically from Michiganand I don't know if it was racism
probably I don't know what it was,but I would wear Michigan gear.

(32:23):
And sometimes you get to go blue,you get a shout out.
You know, some things happen.
This happened like through all,
especially the summer, like right before
I got into school,I was starting to get Michigan stuff
because I thought I was going.
And even in the summer,in the time between wearing Michigan
gear, somebody,and I was also working retail.
So sometimes I would commentwhen other people were wearing

(32:43):
some type of sports gear.
Oh, go blue naming the rival,you know, the school down south,
little brother,if you know who I'm talking about,
you know, I'mtalking about play for something.
And somebody was like, yeah,but I actually went there.
I didn't know that.
Oh yeah, that happened to meway where it happened to be a lot.
And I'm like.
I got a full tuition academic scholarshipto go there.
Like, what do you want to do?

(33:03):
Do you want to do this?
Do I do is I want to grabhow do I oh my cool.
Oh my.
Oh great. Right.
But it was, it was likeoh but I actually went there.
Or sometimes I went here againsenior year.
You get the questionswhere are you going to school?
Blah blah. Oh,I'm going to Michigan. Great.
What are you majoringin? Theater performance.
Oh, that'll be fun.

(33:24):
It. Now, now,if I roundhouse kick you in the job.
Right. That'll also be fun.
That will also be fun.
There'll alsobe fun. And so it really was,
to circle back to the question,not just name
the experiences, but it really was aboutlike what the perceptions were.
If if you want to talk about something,I knew it's like what really understanding
how going to this school meant a thing

(33:47):
to other people that I had no relationshipto responsibility for.
Like that was the thing I learned, right?
And and it was interestingalso to navigate.
In-group belonging in the senseof like going to Michigan
very much was like, oh, this is what it
this is what this is what it meansto kind of be formerly,

(34:09):
for lack of a better phrase,like indoctrinated into a group of people,
like in that especially onceI got out, like really learning, like,
frankly, in waysthat like, folks wanted to be racist.
I could say something about Michigan.
I could throw a go blue,I could throw something in there.
And all of a sudden watch particularlywhite people change how they talk to me

(34:31):
because that you get to see the shiftfrom one of them to one of us
in a way that was still fascinating.
It's rightwhere, yeah, you could see people
go, oh, she's one of the good ones.
I hate that phrase I don't like,but I could watch the shift.
The little person behind the eye like,fill me

(34:53):
in a different way that I didn't.
I wasn't courting,but I could watch, right?
I could see, yeah, yeah, you're thisserve it on it right where you're like,
oh, that's now that like thatgives you something again, it gives it.
You have a story about whatthat means about me that I don't see,
or that I that can help informhow we go forward, here on out.

(35:16):
But lastly, to really narrow down
on this question and we're going tobe here for a little while.
But really what it gave me, though,
specifically what theatrical traininggave me, and I mentioned this
not to shout out other podcasts,but I will in that, I was recently on,
Tim's Anova or, AWS Air Labs workshop on

(35:40):
Suck podcast, talking about whatmy theatrical training gave me,
really is the ability to understand,like how the words were saying
and the emotions were feeling
in the energy of the room is impactingall of our interactions, right?
in real life, we are seeing things.
We are feeling things simultaneously.
Sometimes the things we're seeing

(36:02):
are direct reflectionsof the things we're feeling most often.
Frankly, they are
worse off than they aren't,but they're all in the room.
And theatrical trainingreally gave me practice
and technique to understandalignments and misalignments between

(36:22):
what's being said and what's being feltand what's happening in the space.
Understanding what audience is doing
and audience can be a room full of people.
But it can also just beyou and me in this room
or in the staff meeting and be like, hey,the audience is shifting.
Something's somebody said somethingand then something changed.
And now what is happening?

(36:43):
And I think that's actually one ofthe things that makes me a better director
than I am an actor.
I'm a good actor.
I think I'm a I'm actuallyI think I'm a much stronger director
because I can seehow all of those things are swirling
and use that to tell,like an effective story.
And my formal theatrical educationreally helped me articulate that

(37:03):
as a skill as opposed to the things thatI was kind of operating in as intuition.
Amazing, amazing.
Well, just where do you go from there?
Well done.
We have a feature.
We asked that we we kind of flewlike went into this next question.
So I'm just going to skipthis next question.
And there's there's always moreI always have stories.

(37:26):
Where did the school succeed
in preparing youand where did they fail you?
You know, that is a real question.
I think it prepared me really wellin being a collaborator.
Really taught me how to workmore effectively with other people.
And so something that they prepared me
to do that I don't know if they,they were trying to do, but.

(37:50):
And so I don't know if this iswhere they failed me or not, but
was in knowing,oh, I have to build my own shit.
Because talk about it.
They had I had some really
powerful teachers and I want toI want to just shout that out.
Rest in peace, Professor Linda Dickerson.
shout out to oh, yeah, shout outto also rest in peace, Eric Fredrickson.

(38:13):
But many others.
But, those three really impactedmy trajectory from undergrad,
really helped me see that I could buildsomething, that I had something to say.
And, and therethere were definitely some others,
but I just,you know, really want to shout out,
this is specifically, but

(38:34):
they didn't there are a lot of folks like,if this has a whole
that theater departmentdidn't quite know what to do with me,
I and I, there are some thingsI understand about what it is,
but it really was like you know,I've always been short.
I've always been loud.I've always been smart.
And I wasn't quite fat enoughat the time.

(38:55):
You know, I've grown up now,but I wasn't quite fat enough at the time
to be the quirky best friend.
I'm not. I'm not.
I going to say I want to be like, I'mnot funny.
And that's not true.
I am funny, I am not a comedian.
I'm not good in that way.
Like my mother,I think, is far better at being able
to stand up and like give you a pitchthat's a joke.

(39:17):
Like she's great at a set uplike my mom could do a stand up set,
but I'm actually not a good improver.
And I'm not a good. I'm just. Yeah, I'm.
I'm comedically funny in the sense of,like, I'm good,
my timing is good, and I can be witty,but I'm not.
This is an a dick to Sherri Shepherd.
But I feel like every time I seeSherri Shepherd and I think

(39:39):
she's great, I go, oh, that's the energythey wanted.
I can't that's not me.
That's that's not that's whothey thought they were trying to get.
That's a really great.
That's a that's a really great reference.
And and if they don't seethat as a dig at all.
No it's right.
No she is great and I but I'm saving I'm,I'm blinking like oh that's the type.
They kept trying to get me to be.

(40:01):
And that's just not who I am. Right.
And I know I think I keep saying racism,but I feel like there's also
just some racism where they couldn'tfigure me out as like where I went.
They're like, well, if you're not funny,best friend in that way
and you're not,you're clearly not cleaning lady, right?
And I'm not leading ladynot leading. Right.

(40:23):
You'redefinitely you're definitely too short.
Your your boobs are too big.
There's still there's just too much of youand not enough with you.
Oh, at the same time, I.
So. So you're not gonna be that.
They can't be.
You're not.
You're not an angel, New York.
Right. So, like, who are you?

(40:46):
But you're also in your 20s,so you can't be.
We can't, ma'am, ify you just yet.
We want to, but we can't quite know.
It's on the list.
Isn't right. We just gotta wait.
We gotta let it cook a little bit longerso they didn't know what to do with me.
And so as a result, like,some of them really didn't teach me.
were like, well, we just don't see wherewho's going to cast you.

(41:07):
And I just, you know,I want to also shout out,
I feel likeactually the closest person right now
who's working to, like,my type actually is Uzo Aduba.
Right.
And it's once in particular, onceI saw The Residents, I was like,
this is that's me, it's tarp white.
It's like she's brilliant or whatever.

(41:28):
But like as far as likewhere they were going to fit me,
like they just didn't know this.
So had really questions.
It didn't. Right. Is this 20 years away.
But like just this idea oflike they didn't know where to put me
into because of that,they didn't quite teach me.
And so if I wanted to do things,I had to build things.
I had to make decisionsabout what I wanted my career to be.

(41:51):
And so I started an organizationwith some friends who were so deep
friends say, but it really was like, okay,
who you are,
who how you see medoesn't have to be who I am.
And I always have the capacityto build something.
And so they prepared me for one.
A world that is going to try to

(42:12):
that is either going to try to make meinto what it wants me to be or ignore me.
And so knowing having that experienceearly, I was like, okay,
I know who I can be.
And until they failed meand that some folks just felt like
it wasn't kind of teaching me.
They didn't invest in me in that way.
senior year, four yearsof acting school and doing the thing,

(42:33):
we're offering
feedback, andthe head of the acting program at the time
is offering advice on what folksshould, should be doing after
he showed up to his own class 40 minuteslate, which is a whole separate thing.
And the advicehe gave me four years of acting school
for going into the world was he wouldn't.
He said, I wouldn't auditionunless you bought high heels and a wig.

(42:55):
I am so glad you're telling me this nowbecause he he was high school.
Tyrone would have would have called himall types of things I was.
But that was that was it.
He just be real to my entire life?
Yeah, don't do that.
And I had I had lots at the time but his
that was it that his advice was be tallerand change your hair.

(43:15):
And I was like, that's.
Okay. Thanks.
So yeah, they failed.
many people failed me in actually,
like, teaching me how to be a performer.
But in failing me in that way,they taught me how to build opportunities
and also taught me that, like,I do love performance, but that's not
I did not want to spend my timefighting for people to see me in that way.

(43:39):
And so
I made a bunch of other opportunitiesand stayed deeply connected to the arts.
I still like to perform,I still like to direct,
but it really forced meto find the other things that I do that.
Have helped me build a career, frankly.
And so for that, I will I, you know,won't ever burn the school to the ground.
But I felt, you know, I'll be gratefulthat like it gave me a lot

(44:01):
and it gave me a communityof collaborators and it prepared me
to understand how the world saw me in waysthat I didn't internalize.
I was just like,oh, you all aren't going to get me.
So I'm going to go build the spacesand connections and environments
that do get me. So powerful.
All the stories so much and quite so.
Go for it. Yeah. What?
Where did the school succeed inpreparing you and where did they fail you?

(44:23):
succeeded in preparing me by telling me
the name of programs and terminologyof things that I could look up on my own.
How it failed mewas that it failed me by the sense
of locking me into a creative box.
Like I also change, likeso I changed my major.

(44:43):
Because there was a moment where I justfelt really defeated, in one major.
And so I changed my majorto another one, and,
and finished out that way,which felt like a cop out to me.
But what it, told me is that, again,I have to do this on my own.
I'm not going to you guys aren'tgoing to help me, and that's fine.

(45:04):
But it's not done.
Like I have to. Cool.
I just got to do this. And, like what?
I think it really prepares you,at least in my, in the industry
that I was in or going tois that it prepares
you to be to work at a carlike a car corporation
doing a lot of renders for cars,which I have.

(45:25):
No, this is noshade to people who make car renders.
That's that's not what I wanted to do.
a lot of companies
come there and they they're like,this is what you should be doing
because this is what everybody's doingin Michigan.
If you want to be in this, inif you want to work in 3D here.
So think I didn't work and I've neverworked in a car industry at all.

(45:48):
But how they failed me
is really what started the building blocksof like creating my own animation
studio with Corey and because we didn'twant to make cars either.
Like.
And I think you'll find thata lot of people
who went to school theredidn't want to make cars, make cars

(46:08):
because we have to eatand we need shelter.
So, that's where I'm at with it.
Like it failed me in so many other ways.
And like, I also wasn't, you know,I was a kid figuring it out myself.
So, like, I'm sure there are moments
where they could haveI could have succeeded in a way,

(46:29):
but I felt like I probably would have hadto, like round some of my corners off.
And I didn't want to do that.
So, through.
So yeah, that's what I feel like.
They failed me in a waythat shaped me into a better person
and, like, allowed me to be collaborativeand, like,
want to take the people out of the,the world who,

(46:52):
who are in cars because they want to beor because they have to be,
not because they want to be.
I want to be able to be like,
well, you can do that thingthat you wanted to do now.
I mean, I want to like double down on thatand that I think some of the ways
that both institutions are separateinstitutions failed us is
I understandthat they can't necessarily do this,
but I had some really great teachersand some of the terrible teachers

(47:16):
I had were teaching because capitalismmeant they needed to eat.
Right.
And I don't I don't subscribe to this ideaof, you know, the
those that can do, thosethat can't teach like that's bullshit.
I don't agree with that.
However comma, I definitelyhad some teachers who were frustrated
and or failed by their metric,not even by my metric performance

(47:40):
and were and resented peoplefor their youth,
for their some folks, for their talent,some folks for their clarity,
and felt like part of teachingwas making the young
people as jaded and disinterestedand cynical as they were.
Oh girl, preach.
And so I think

(48:02):
some of the waysthe system or institutions failed was
and collectivelyfailed us was because so much
because we don't subsidize artistsand or creative folks in any way,
because there isn't support,because you have to
to what you were saying, eat, get shelter,get health insurance.
You know, we need to pay to live.
It encourages some folkswho have really negative views on

(48:27):
what it means to be a working, creative orworking professional, or who feel, again
their own discouragement or disillusioned,or have their own jaded cynicism.
Sinner. Cynical.
That is the word.
There, own jaded, cynical point of view
allows them to impactthe youth, allows them to impact
these young, impressionable peopleand and really like.

(48:50):
I know just like infect themwith negativity
and Ithere should be some way to vet for that.
I wish I knew that right nowI have no answers for you.
I don't have the answers,but like you could just see
some of the folks were like,you don't actually, you're you're either
not at all investedin the lives of these young people

(49:11):
and like who they become, butyou just want them to hear your stories,
or you're so investedin these young people
that you don't have healthy boundariesbecause you think you're one of them.
And like, I need us to,and you just to not do that.
I need us to not do that.
I need us to not doI knew we were in the shit

(49:33):
when I was sitting in a class, and thethe professor
was looking at the same YouTube videothat I looked at prior
the night prior, and I was like,fuck this.
I'm going, oh, no, I justI just walked out.
I was like, okay, this is dumb.
I'm going home.
Cool, cool.
No, I figured it out.
I, I know the secret now.

(49:54):
You do not trust the manbehind the curtain.
It's great.
Yeah, I schools I, I went home I'm lucky,you know.
You know folks audience.
So we're six years apart and that sixyears matters and a variety of reasons.
But like my undergrad experiencewas 2002 to 2006.
And so that puts Tyrone's at 20man was 2012, 2008, 2000.

(50:19):
So again, I could, I could I startedI took two years off.
Yes. So right. So 2012 2015.
So it's like our educational experiencesare different
both in like we barely had emaillike to sound like an old person.
Yeah. Yeah.
You know, and so the idea of even havinga YouTube situation like the,
the my folks were,my teachers were didn't understand

(50:44):
the internet in any way as a playerfor what we could do.
Right.
We're very stuck in what
the traditional mode of performancewas like.
Again, like this we're talking about like,this is before Issa
Rae, like before a web series was a thing.
And so to to reiteratethere, like the ability to them

(51:05):
not knowing what to do with me maybegives them a little credit in the sense
that they felt like there was no wayI was going to have a career
because they couldn'tsee anybody who looked like me. I.
Still mad at them about it,
right?
Because people made, you know,even with the opportunity of like,
these are the things you can make,you can generate some work.

(51:27):
You could figure it out in, in for folksthan just being this like,
well, I'm not going to waste my time.
It's like, actually tuition is paying.It's being paid.
This isn't your time. This is your job.
You should still show up.
And again, renaming that, I had some greatpeople who did do that, who did show up.
But I had to build in college.
I had to really buildwhat my story was going to be and
and really to feel like the sustain oflike where you're going to quit

(51:49):
or you're going to whatever.
And like I will name that there.
Are there
a few people who I graduate withwho are still actively working,
who are still out there doing the thing,but I'm definitely in
the minority of folks who managedto build a career in the arts 100%.
I can stay in hand, right?
Like who stayed in it?
Like, I do this differently, working atservice, working in the nonprofit space.

(52:13):
But like building a career in the arts,like a lot of folks left,
did other things.
I'm not mad at them.
I'm not sayinganybody should have to stay in it.
But like this idea that, like,
somehow I wasn't going to havebecause they couldn't figure out
who was going to cast me
and what they were just like, well,I just don't see what you're going to do
here, so go somewhere else.
You know,I think everybody expected me to, like,

(52:34):
I know, maybego to law school and like, stop.
And I know a bunch of people who did,
who went from acting degrees to law schooland did the thing, and it was great.
But like.
It isit just does a disservice to the youth
to have teachers who are just like, well,because I can envision it for you.
It doesn't exist for It'sit's such a disservice.

(52:55):
It's it's a thing that.
It's also a thingthat I think is really hard
to it's really hard to fake that,I had I've had a handful of teachers
that I truly embrace, and I can't remembera lot of their names right now.
But there is one teacher who stands outto me in his in Scott Scott, locksmith.
And he was likeone of my first three D teachers.

(53:17):
And Scott is like, oh gee, in the 3D game, he has he has,
things that are industrystandard is across industry.
There
but that are like
that he's worked onor that are like named after.
So like Scott was that dudewho helped a lot of us

(53:40):
the school who we arestill in contact with today,
retiredwhere I, you know, people have been like,
you should reach out to Scottto see if he knows how to do this thing.
He and like I knowD has reached out to him.
I know my friend Joe.
His research like we everybody has goneback to be like you should probably ask.
Maybe Scott might know.
So like, hold on I know, maybe eight.

(54:02):
Technical difficulties be.
since we passed.
I don't know if we need to answerany more questions here.
No, I think we're good.
Yeah, I think we're good.
But yes, the talking,
like talking to Scott,having the people in my life that that.
Helped me succeed. Are.
Are what?
That's what
the institute did to help me succeedis like introducing me to these people.

(54:25):
And how and how they failed meis that they were like, but you should
just make cars.
No. Yeah.
It it doesa disservice to so many people to just.
Let these students futures be limited
by the imaginations of the folksin the immediate.
And I understand wanting to have like jobslike I believe in job security.

(54:47):
I understand connecting workto an educational experience.
But like you become a you just learn
how to be a person in the worldand there is value for that and you don't.
The idea that you can just knowexactly what somebody's career is going to
look like for the next 20 yearsbased on your own limited whatever.

(55:07):
Like it's just it's hubris.
And I wish more.
I wish I had more teachersand I had a good amount,
but I wish I had more teachers
who saw the idea of the potential,the idea that you could be something.
I don't even know what it could be, butI'm going to give you the tools I have,
so that you can then go in the worldand make something of it, as opposed to

(55:31):
the folkswho were just kind of resented that
the only waythey could even kind of practice
what they wanted to do was infront of these sat those kids, you know.
Yes, the snot nosed kids specifically.
Yeah.
And you could just see you could feel it.
And maybe this is, you know,I talked at the very beginning about,
like, undiagnosed neurodivergentand and I think also connected.

(55:53):
This is the unofficial theme to my MarlonWayans rant, which is just like, I can
I understand pattern recognition
and I can really read the room,and I can see when you're masking
or faking and like, authenticity isit's like it can just turn me off.
It's like,I can tell you, you don't mean that.
That's garbage.
And and it's wild to be an actor,to be like, to kind of feel that way.

(56:16):
It's like, I don't think you're trappedinto that at all.
And like, I don't think you're you'rejust saying things and have no,
you're just reading the scriptand just reading the script that
there's no internal connection.
And it's and it's wild and it's justthere are moments where I can see it.
And I just had like some professors whereI was just like, this is about your ego.
This isn't even about teaching usanything.

(56:39):
So meaning you're you're in a monologue.
We just happen to be here,but you're in a monologue with you,
or this conversation is with somebodywho's not in this room right now,
and that's fine.
But like, that's what's happening.
And I'm like, but why am I why am I here?
Why am I here? Be like.
And whatwhat am I supposed to get out of this?

(57:01):
Yeah.
And that was.
It was in some ways hard to experience.
And again, as I get olderand I get more context
and like what it means to be a grown upbecause, you know, nobody knows anything
more than a 20 year old with a book,
20 year olds,the book knows everything, right?
A singular book is singular.
But now I say a 20 year old to the book.
You know everything, right?
And so I get that some of this is likeI've mellowed a bit as I've gotten older,

(57:25):
but I also there's some things I've gottenangrier about because I was like,
no, you had a responsibilitythat you squandered and you took it out
on these kids and you, you neededyou should have been a better person.
You should have been a better person,a better person.
I believe that this comes fromand this is obviously the last,

(57:45):
the last thing we're going to talk aboutfor the main moment.
I think it also comes from our upbringing
of being surrounded by educatorsin, in so many forms,
so many good people, and can seethe vision,
can can understand the concept of like,just because I can't see

(58:09):
it doesn't mean that your dream or visionor goal is invalidated, right?
Which is which is commendable to them.
And coming from a small town,even more so.
Yeah.
You know, these folks like, yeah,we we know so many educators.
This is why, again, I want to be superclear that we are not shooting

(58:31):
on educators.
We know so many good ones,which is why I think we were both
so disappointed to encounterthe bad ones in the salon.
So disappointed.
It's like, no,I actually I actually know three people
who can do this thingthat you're doing badly
who don't even teach your subject right,
and you're good to go back.

(58:53):
You go back to our unofficial mantraaround things is like it good.
What do you why are you bad?Is this this way?
Yeah. Why?
Why are you using these childrento work through your psyche?
Like, what is your deal? Teach?
Yeah.
Folks, feel free to email usHustlingWithHarges@gmail,com
and let us know about your educationaland training experiences.

(59:13):
Like let us know how you felt.
And I will also shout out, againto podcasts.
So talking more about my theatricalexperience in the workshop is podcast
strongly suggest it.
But also, friends of the pod.
Franchesca Ramsey and Dylan Grant,they did the very first episode,

(59:36):
if I'm not mistaken.
Let me fix it was, an examination of our acting time
like you want to hear since Iif you aren't familiar.
We all met in this undergraduateacting experience,
and so they launched their podcasttalking about our undergraduate training.
And so I suggest if you want to go backto their archives, listen to that

(01:00:00):
first podcast episode, and I believe we'lllink it, we'll see where we can get it.
And hear about some more stories aboutwhat my undergraduate experience was like.
Fantastic.
And also, yes, shout outto shout out to them.
Shout out to thelet me fix it Pac. I'd love it.
It's so ridiculous.

(01:00:20):
They're great.
Next we're bringing back,a segment that we've only done once.
But it is our it's learning edgeswhere we talk about the things that
we're currently learning or, or skills
we want to learn right now.

(01:00:40):
Absolutely.
I'm going to jump in because why not?
I am so I mentionedlast time we talked about learning edges,
and I was really trying
to understand this,like learn more about digital illustration
and surface and pattern designand I'm still trying to engage with that.
But it's been I mean,the name of frustration actually around
learning and, and and it really is about

(01:01:03):
capitalism again surprise, surprise.
The unofficial third host.
The unofficial third host.
Right. Capitalism. How it breaks things.
But it's been hard to try
to find places to learn from
because the internet is full of folks

(01:01:23):
selling you the plan to sell you the plan.
I wish I could articulate thatmore specifically.
That's exactly what it is.
They're like, you know,this is how you can
monetize X or,you know, make these courses whatever.
It's like, no, I don't actuallywant the course to make the course.
I would like a course to learnhow to do the thing.

(01:01:45):
I just want to do the thing.
I want to learn how to do the thingI want, like in Elements of Design
or I want, I want to learn the skill.
And there are some places out thereCoursera, Skillshare, you two meet,
there are places that you can learnthings that are helpful.
But, so many of the marketing,like it's so hard to separate the wheat

(01:02:06):
from the chaff, as it were, in thatall of the things now are about
selling the course and making the moneyto survive the capitalism.
As opposed
to being able to make the thing.
And so it's just been hard

(01:02:27):
to learnsome of the things I want to learn.
I'm not opposed to paying for it, butI am really hesitant to pay for courses
without knowing what am I paying for?
Because if every course is ultimately athis is how you market this course.

(01:02:47):
This is how you, game
Facebook,this is how you play the algorithm.
I'm like, I don't want that course.
I want to learn how to do, differentskill better.
Yeah,
And so yeah, my learning edge right nowis naming that like frustration of like,
I don't know how to learn thingsin this world right now

(01:03:10):
because I don't know where
the reputable learning spaces are.
Because even the like
online spacesthat are like connected with universities
are still are kind of opaqueabout what's happening.
Like they're looking more and more likethe courses, the blogger courses.
And I'm not I'm not cheating a bloggerthere, but I'm just trying to be like,

(01:03:33):
who's a skilled personteaching a thing that I could look at.
Oh man.
That's yeah,that's that's gone baby, where are you?
Are there learning annexes anymore?
If I say those words, doesanybody know what that means?
Well,you know where you're learning at. It.
Right.
Like, where can I go to learn things

(01:03:56):
that isn't just somebodywho started doing this
a year and a half agoand made and has made $10 million, right.
Who who started doing thisa year and a half ago,
telling me how they figured it out
in 12, three minute YouTube videos.
I'm like, give me, I need a 12 hours.

(01:04:18):
I want, I want learn, I want skills
I keep trying to find in trying to learnthings again, going back to the surface
and pattern thing,
I was like, okay, where is a bookthat somebody uses as a reference?
Right? Give me a book. I like a book.
I don't always read a book,but I do like to have reference books.
And, you know, and I will say, maybethis is like one of the last vestiges

(01:04:40):
of like my sewing thing, but like, sewingis really good about books
where it's like, here is a compendium,
here is a thingthat's like, here's a reference guide
where that can walk youthrough things like, I do love a tutorial.
Again, I love video.
I'm not I understandthere are a variety of ways to learn,
but I also like things where it's likegrounded in this reference.

(01:05:03):
Yeah, start at the bookand then you can practice it.
And this is how we come backto the book. Great.
So many of these onlinecourses are just like,
I'm going to show youhow to monetize this hobby.
And I'm like, okay, but I actually want tolearn how to do the hobby first.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
And I'm like, so where's the book thatyou started or the book that you wrote?
You can't tell me that you learned a thingand you didn't look at one book

(01:05:25):
one time.
Give me that.
But and what's reallythey don't think they can find it is that
we have reached a point in the worldwhere the answer to that question is yes.
They had.
No, no, we don'tI don't need to look at a book.
There's not one time I need to look ata book to figure out how to do something.
Not one. I don't I don't like that world.

(01:05:46):
It's this is this is it you don't need.
Yeah, you don't need a physical bookto learn how to do something.
You need a, you know, $12
a month YouTube accountso you don't have ads.
And you canthen just kind of learn anything.
You know, it's the reason.
There's a reason why it's the secondlargest search engine in the world.

(01:06:09):
but I get you on this especially likebeing a creative entrepreneur,
being that you're looking at this like,are you not it
specifically for me as a designer,an animator, a lot of people are like,
are you a freelance animator?
And you're not making $75,000 a month?
What is wrong with you?
Come by my 30 minute, step

(01:06:32):
by step PDF for $200 and buy.
In three months you will be making $75,000
a month. have haveI bought some of these game books?
Yes. Argue with your mama.
Okay. No, no, no, don't.
Don't go for me sometimes.
Instagram. Get my ass.

(01:06:53):
Okay.
But other times I'm like, okay,what they're not telling you is.
Or if they are telling you,they're telling you in this, like,
kind of like cool, convoluted waythere are like with my 20 years
of industry experience,I left my six figure paying job
two years ago to start my own businesswith capital that I raised

(01:07:15):
from working at an industryor in an agency for 20 years.
Right?
With my built in, with my built in clientbase, my built in client base.
So I took these clientsand these relationships and it's like, oh,
so the secret is do the jobwell for 20 years.
Well, for 20 yearsthat's and then scam people with this book
talking about doing the jobwell for 20 years.

(01:07:36):
Like you aren't giving me anythingpractical.
You're giving me be in the industry.
That's sir.
Sir. Oh, oh or a barset or versus advice or.
We just we're just.So we're just doing this.
Okay. This is dumb.
This is dumb. Like you're not.
It's like a couple masterclass.
It's like how to how to launchsuccessful siblings podcast

(01:07:57):
be Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson.
Bring famous people on your.
It's like greatthey to have a different podcast.
They are great again not but likebut that's like the advice is like okay,
well first be the first ladyof the United States okay.
Why can't okay okay, do that part then

(01:08:18):
call famous peopleand have them also be on your podcast.
I don't and like and I'm like yes,those are skills.
Those are ways to success.
But that's not transferable.
That's and you can't sell me an e-bookabout that anyway.
Tara.
You were saying that. That's so.
But that's it, that's it.
It's just likeyou want people to buy your book

(01:08:41):
and you want people or join your course,or get your newsletter
or do all these thingsand you're like, oh.
The easy partis, I'm going to give you the 12 steps
that I know how to do over the 20 yearsit took me to get here, and I was like,
what they're not telling you is thatone of the steps is do it for 20 years.

(01:09:02):
And, well, and then these,these points will start to apply.
Have connections, have connections.
Be you have build relationships.
You're not and you're not going to build
relationships in four monthswith three easy payments of 999.
That's just not going to work.
You're going toyou're going to have to find it.

(01:09:23):
And this is coming fromsomebody who has no industry experience
like I have never onceworked at an agency as a designer.
Which is why it's harder for me.
Like I write that now, I fully get it.
But you're, you're telling these peoplethat you can do if you're a freelancer,
you can also make eight granda month, nine grand a month doing this.

(01:09:45):
You can,but it's not going to take six months.
I don't care how good you are.
It's going to take you find it'sgoing to take forever.
But you also have to find the exact rightclient who's willing to
leverage their social capital and interestand all of that for you.
And that is not impossible.
But acting like that, that is a that's athing that you can skill for is a problem.

(01:10:09):
It's like, not you. It's like it is.
It literally is like, buy my course
and I will teach youhow to capture lightning in a bottle.
And it's like you, you actually,because it is in the realm of possibility.
Sure, you can do that.
It is, it is can inthe sense of it is physically possible
in the realm of like if

(01:10:31):
if there's two worlds of likenot actually possible
and possible on that binary.
Yes. It is.
Probable likely.
Even gamble even like plantable.
No, it is not.
It's it's and you know, and you know,

(01:10:52):
like you said, like you dothe first indecisive shit I heard.
Right? Right, right.
I know I've bought more coursesthat I want to say,
because I'm like, well,maybe they've got 20 years of experience.
What is this?
Of course, these steps must work.
No, the big step is have

(01:11:13):
ten plus years of experience of doing,and that's experience
of doing the thing, doing the thing.
Be bad at it.
That's what I'm that's like my learningedge is be bad at the thing.
Justin Roiland,who is one of the creators,
Rick and Morty, says in this interviewwhere he's shirtless.

(01:11:34):
It's so ridiculous.
He's just on stage shirtless.
But he is like,the cool thing about being a good writer
is that you get to be a bad writer first.
You get to fill your tank with shit
and drive forward.
He's like the very few industriesallow you to do that,

(01:11:56):
to just be terribleand still move forward.
He was like, just right.
Just know that everybody wants to bea good writer.
Just write until you're a good writer.
That's like, absolutely, yeah.
To go back to the point,I said, around what the value of,
I think a good creative educationis the ability to just do the thing,
do the thing with this dedicated time

(01:12:19):
and or space and or resources like,that's what I miss
and in so many ways like and I thinkthat's partially why I like these courses
or things are so frustrating to meis it's I'm not looking for perfection.
I'm not even looking for a shortcut.
I would love, in some ways some stepsto practice, like give me, structure.

(01:12:39):
It's like draw these things
and then draw those things into drawthat thing, be bad at it.
Give me just a prompt to writein some ways, or give me something
that's just like, give me a little bitof structure to bounce off of,
because I don't even know what musclesI should be flexing.
Because if nothing else, like theatricaltraining really taught me, it's like,
all right, these are the types of thingsyou should be working on.

(01:13:01):
How you work on them is fine,
but like stretching, you should understandwhat your body is doing at any time.
You should know where does your voice go?
What does that sound like?
Okay, here's athese are voice vocal exercises.
Here are warmups here.
Things to note in my body is this.
There is how is my body differentfrom the character's body.
Like I have tactics to work onwhatever my process

(01:13:24):
is for any actor, whatever their processis, to get through those tactics is fine.
But I do wish there was just more spacesthat weren't just about
how do I sell the thing?
It's like,no, what are the things I look at
when I want to learn a thingor when I practice the thing?
Because if you tell me, you know, MalcolmGladwell, who I'm breaking up with,
but whatever you tell me, the MalcolmGladwell 10,000 hour

(01:13:45):
thing, or 10,000 hours of like,you know, practice, what do I practice?
Where do I start?
Give me a place to start practicing.
Where do I
this?
This thing that lives in my head,
where I'm like, okay, what's the thing?
What's.
And this is why I think I really love3D to like, bring it home.

(01:14:10):
So to land this place
is is that like the coursesthat I do for 3D?
Everybody is like, let me rephrase that.
The courses that I'm watching,I'm sure there are courses
where it's like,this is how you gamify the industry.
am not in thoseThe courses that I'm watching are like,
this is how you create this scene.

(01:14:33):
We are going to open the program.
We're going to start from,do you know how to save a file?
You do now, like
here is 60 hours of videos.
broken up into 20 minutes a piece.
It's going to cost you $500.
But you're going toyou're going to have the skills

(01:14:55):
to create this scene and scenes like it.
The people I watch where they're like,do it with us, do it with us,
do it with us.
In this one, do it as well, because Ido it with me and then delete the fold.
Do it again.
Do it. This don't even save.
We're not even in the processof saving this right now.
We're getting we'rejust building the muscle memory of where

(01:15:15):
things are in the program, where we'rewe're creative, we're flexing creatively.
We're figuring things out.
This is how you do this. Doing lightning.
You know, he was like, so, of courseI'm working on is working on lightning.
And he was like, doing lightning is fine.
He was like, but now it's a line, youknow, how do you know how to do lightning?
Slow it down. Make thicker.

(01:15:36):
Now you have goop. Well done,
well done.
Look at the things we have done.
Now we have one skill has taughtyou eight different things.
How to do something in here.And that's really.
That's where I'm at in my learning curve,in my learnings, where I'm like, cool.
Like along with that, I'm also learninghow to be like a showrunner.

(01:15:57):
What does a showrunner actually do?
Or, you know,are you just like you have creative input,
but are you really just an ego on set,or do you have to, like, really?
Okay, I want to do this.
I want to do this because a showrunnerand director are two separate people.
There are two separate jobs that are,you know, union jobs.
So like like are you you know, once
that happens, okay, are you allowedin the writers room anymore?

(01:16:18):
Now do you have to have like a delegate?
Oh, I'm just learningall these different things to, to like one
show the universethat I'm serious about this whatever.
Howeverthat manifest physically, metaphysically.
But to show the universe like no, Ithis is what I want to be doing,
but also to like when it happens,you get in there,

(01:16:40):
you're not stumbling around like alike a cold on ice.
You're just like, I'm just.
I'm just here figuring it out.
I got a little bit of bearings.
I know where you know,I know how to, you know,
from a martial artsstandpoint, like, you know, I'm coming in
as a white belt, but I've sat in a coupleclasses, you know, naked.
No way I can throw a punch like,know, being ready for your success.

(01:17:04):
I mean, we've talked about thatin previous episodes.
Like, how do I at least try this on me?
How do I seehow do I see where I need to learn?
Like some of you might be like, oh, yeah,
I do understand that, that it's like,oh, no, I don't know that at all.
All right.
Let me let me get to it. Let me,let me be open.
Let me be coachable.
You know. You know and to to go backto let's go back to coachable.
But to quote you know, the linefrom the movie Constantine, Shiloh

(01:17:26):
Butz character goes, if you're going toif you're going to sit on the bench,
you might as well not to play like,like 100%.
I'm just, you know, I'mjust waiting to get called up.
That's really it.
And I'm going to get thereand I'm going to have the knowledge
and the temperament,which I think is also important,
to have the knowledge and the temperamentof somebody who is like both.

(01:17:49):
I know a little bit enough to where youmay not be able to take advantage of me,
but I am malleable enough to be coachable,to be the best that I can be.
How amazing
this look at us.
This is good.
We had so many things to talk about.
All of all of our educational things.
And so with that, we're going to gointo the heart and soul of the show,

(01:18:12):
work hard, play hard.
Well done.
So, you know, continuing our theme, right.
Really talking about education.
So we talked about, like, our experiences.
And so we're going to jump into the workhard portion,
I want to say, how do you keepyour training fresh as your craft evolves?

(01:18:34):
What does ongoing learninglook like for you now?
That's a really awesome question,
and I am thankful for the industryfor that because the industry
is constantly evolving.
There's always new techor tech is always getting updated.
People are finding new techniquesI love the,
I love that there is a different wayto do almost everything in 3D,

(01:18:57):
whether that's a plug in wherethere's somebody with like, I found
you can actually do this and skiptwo steps or other people are like,
but I like the two stepsbecause it gives you more control.
Or like there are just there'sso many different ways to do things.
So like how I keep it.
Like thankfully the industry keepsit fresh for me.
There's always new peopleand the the gap of really talented artists

(01:19:18):
getting younger.
And so a lot of young people are likealso opening up their knowledge
of like Blender or Unreal,these free programs where they're like,
I was at homeand I figured out, you could do this.
And so I made a video on YouTubeand it got a million views or whatever.
And I switch,
like some days I'll do more visualeffects stuff, some days I'll do

(01:19:41):
scriptwriting, some days I'll do likeadministrative stuff like I, you know, I'm
wearing many hats, like,I, I pride myself in being adaptable,
which I'm sure is the audio HD talking,
but I pride myself in being adaptableto being able to be like,
oh, let's let's learn this today.
Let's learn this today.Let's learn this today.
And to to also have the forethought

(01:20:03):
of seeing a course that has come out ofsomething that I may want to learn
how to do one time and being like,okay, maybe I need to keep an eye on this.
And if this, this goes on sale,we'll get this.
And it might be a programthat or not a program,
but like a course that I don't takefor six months because it it's not

(01:20:23):
a it's not super prevalent right now,but it is something that I want to learn.
I mean, you're saying I,so I, I did mention earlier that
I was talking about the, the one auditionI went to, when I first moved here.
So I moved to New York City as an actor.
And, they were doing at the time,revival of an action Case
for Colored Girls,which considered suicide

(01:20:45):
when the rainbow was enoughand they had auditions, and it's.
Oh, it's it's the showthat's like, changed my life.
And I really believed in it.
So I was like, I'm gonna go.
Did all this acting training.
I had my own frustrations with, like,what it meant to be an actor.
And again,being around people who perceived me,
and or people whokind of failed to perceive me, frankly,
and I was like,but this if there's a show that

(01:21:09):
where people are likely to see me,where my black woman, this is in fact
not a thingthat they're trying to figure out, but
is the thing that they deeply understand.This is the one.
And so I auditioned, and I gave what feelslike the best solution I've ever given.
I like gave, and I did the monologue, the,Woman in Blue and I just,
I loved it,and I remember feeling it, and I was like,

(01:21:30):
this is actuallywhat the training was for.
It was to dothis, mom was to show up is to have like,
what in many ways had conceivedas like a dream moment.
Being able to auditionfor this show in this space.
And I was able to show up for it.
And ultimately, that iteration of the showdidn't go, but I didn't.
I felt it, and I walked out of theregoing, I'm probably I you know what?
I don't have to do this again.

(01:21:51):
Amazing.
I was like, no, I did it.
I had the skills, I was able to meet it.
I was able to show upand give them what I wanted to give them.
And then you had a true, like,moment of fulfillment.
Yeah.
Where it's like, it'd be greatif I would if, you know, whatever.
If they call and we're like,we're going to do the show.
I'm not going to not do that.
But like, but this is it, this is this.
I could see just really,

(01:22:12):
really clear with real claritythat this was what I trained for.
This is the thing I wanted.I was able to meet this moment.
I showed up,I got called in, I got to do the thing
and literally everything else is gravy,
right?
And I was like, this is all right, great.
I don't know if I have to do this again.
And I have not felt calledto audition again for anything.

(01:22:34):
I've built a career in a variety of ways.I was like, this is it.
But like, this is I think that this is it.
This is the acting moment.
And if I get asked to do a thing, I will.
Oh, I would love to do it. But again,I don't have to.
And so part of it is like how dobut how do I keep
the training fresheven though I don't really act anymore?
And it is one just still identifyingas a, as a creative person, like I am,

(01:22:58):
even if I'm not an actor by profession,I'm definitely an actor by practice.
Five by in training.
I stayed deep in the connectionto my body.
Like what are my emotions
like really trying to be aware of,like what's happening.
I always think I approach the worldas an actor.
I also think as a directorit shows up where it's like,
how what are the elementstelling the story?

(01:23:19):
Who is what is that actor doing?
What are the choices they're making?
Like, I'm always kind of analyzingreviewing things the into the actor.
I experience a lot of work.
But yeah, for meit was retiring in some ways
from the practice, but not from theI took back
retiring from the job,but not from the practice or the ideology.

(01:23:42):
And I really I said,
you know, I engage with actors,I like to, I, I love to talk shop.
I love to read a text and understand,like, what it is like.
I still bring those skills up.
And then learning,like knowing that I have skills
from acting training from,you know, I did it for a while, using
that in how I approachlearning new things, how I learn in my day

(01:24:04):
jobs, how I learn in like building thingsand really understanding
what it means to pull in elementstogether, to tell a story, to.
Sometimes that story isn't fiction,that sometimes that story is.
How do we get through this meeting?
The story is how do we tell the story ofof this project?
How do we sell the story of this program?
But using those skills is a dailypractice.

(01:24:26):
It's a daily part of how I live. My life.
The I think the combination of that
of watching you buildand create that space for yourself
has made me a betterstoryteller and person, because I like
I watch how you dissect stuff like I'm,you know, this is decades worth of stuff.
like watching how you dissect a film

(01:24:46):
allows me to dissect the film differentlybecause of you from your point of view,
like coming from a thespian, like,
and how you, like you said,how you know where emotions,
where your emotions are,how you where you feel into your body,
all the all the things that youthat you previously stated.
It allows me to like, look at actors

(01:25:08):
as characters in my storiesso I know where to put people.
Like, I feel like I'm.
I feel like I'm going to have a really funtime casting stuff
because of the conversations and mediawe've consumed together, together
as me and you, but together also as like
a, as like a familial unitof how everybody in the house

(01:25:31):
and I say in the house, I mean, growing upwith me, you, mom and dad
all looked,and dissected films differently.
Yeah, it's having a deepanalytic view is just helpful.
And it's it's led me into everything.
Very cool.
But that. My question.
Is that your question?I think that was your
When have you used your training in a

(01:25:52):
totally unexpected, unexpectedand non artistic way?
that's a great question.
And sometimes I feel like it is dealingwith narcissistic bosses every day.
Frankly, every day. Every day.
No. And I don't,
you know,do not have narcissistic boss now
but I have had themand sometimes it's just like I can it's
harder to have get harder as I get older,but I can definitely make my face

(01:26:13):
do things that my brain is not doing rightwhere I'm like, deeply engaged, right?
Just in your brain.
So you are crazy, right?
Where it's like,but we're going to hold on.
And so, you know, I,I truly think like corporeal awareness
is somethingthat people discount actress for.

(01:26:35):
And it's like, no,a lot of actors who are very good
understand what their body is
doing and can be in control of more of itthan you think they are.
And like,
you know, talking aboutlike making yourself
cry on cue or whatever, butlike letting like the twitches, letting,
letting your body say it's respondingin one way when your brain is like,

(01:26:58):
oh, now is probably the skill
I use the most for, like,this is what my body would do.
So this is how I know it shouldn't, right?
Okay.
Like this is what's going to go on.
All right.
Fine. We're gonnathis is where I'm going to be.
This is the thing where you're like,this is what my emotional response
going to do.

(01:27:18):
Like, I can feel if I'm if I'm trying tonot be frustrated, like I feel the tears.
All right. We're going to take the deepbreath. We're going to regulate.
We're going to know the feeling is there.
But these are the ways
we're going to stop it for a momentuntil we get to right where we gotta go.
That's very cool.
I mean, it's, it is both cool and like,a thing that you just have to do.

(01:27:40):
Yeah, but, you know, they're there,but are very few classes where it's like,
what do you look like when you cry?
And like, that is what theater.
That's part of what theater happens.
Like when you are angry, what happens?
You're like, oh, I get hot and Ijust tend to up and this is where it goes.
And it's like, all right, all right,we're going to lower this tension.
We're going to see we're going to knowthat that's what that feeling is.
And we're going to do some thingsto, not show those yet.

(01:28:03):
So that's probably the most unexpected
or our, not artistic waywhere you like, I'm gonna.
Nope.
Nobody here is going to knowwhat's going on with me right now.
I gotta go, I gotta go,
I think a thing for me
that has, like, helped me or not helping,
but like, a thing that I use is the.

(01:28:25):
I've been always been very goodat finding trends in things
like seeing somebody do something.
I can kind of whittle
it back down to like, okay,who was like who was like, not a pioneer
so much, but like a, visionaryor like the first person to really do it.
Well. And that's the thingthat I've always kind of been good at.
And I think it'sbecause I've just watched so much,

(01:28:47):
just consume so much mediaand just like, store it.
It in a vault somewhere.
But it it happens a lotwhen I'm hanging out with, like,
corporate marketing friends
and they're like,this happened when I was like,
well, you know,they gotta really thank this person.
And they're like, have you thoughtof strategy as like, as like a, thing?

(01:29:09):
And I'm like, I,
I'm, you're talking to me about it.
But I always, you know,it feels it's always felt like a thing
where, you know, like I talk about,you know, we talk about, like,
Afrofuturism sometimes, and like,heard people say this, I believe it.
Just because you have bantu knotsdoes not mean that you are Afrofuturism.
That's my own baggage I got to deal with.

(01:29:30):
I'm fine with that.
But like when we think of Afrofuturism,you know, we think of
when you think of Wakanda,we think of, we think of things.
maybe and maybe people are they're justnot talking about enough for me.
But you're not talking aboutwhat's the worst is going to be video,
which at the end,what's it going to be? Yeah.
With, with Joe Jackson and, and you know,I don't have things like this to you yet,

(01:29:51):
but like, that video is entirely 3D.
The whole video is 3D.
Busta Rhymes turns into a Liquid Man,
which at the time would have blown upcomputers.
Like, it's like all the reflectivenesseverything about that.
That video is Afrofuturism,and it's a thing that I don't see

(01:30:11):
a lot of thing of people pulling it,pulling from it as inspiration.
And maybe this is my,you know, Manuel's at cloud moment.
Where I just shake my fist is the sky.
But like Afro Afro future, for some reason,
people believe Afrofuturismis only like a few years.
Like like a decade old.

(01:30:32):
And I'm like, no, Afrofuturism has beenaround so much longer than you think.
Like the moment let's talk,you know, Afrofuturism.
Let's talk about the the modern gamingconsoles invented by a black man
like this iswe are living in Afrofuturism, right?
And understanding that, like understandingthose lineages are,
is a part of your artistic practiceand appreciate the ways in which you like.

(01:30:55):
Pull that through everything.
Everything. It's my entireis that everything?
With that, we're going to jump intothe more playful side.
We're already kind of leaning into ita little bit.
But the play hard question,
yeah, I like thisquestion is if you could design your dream
artist trading program,
what's the most unconventional classyou put on the syllabus?

(01:31:16):
Unconventional class.
I don't know if it's unconventional.
It's a class I want to do.
Think it would be called.
That's my musicJT a retrospective of Robert Townsend.
Sounds and.
Yeah.
And, and we would go through
and we would discuss the greatnessthat is Robert Townsend

(01:31:37):
I appreciate that's like not even aboutit doesn't matter what you're trading for.
You just need to understand himto understand Robert Townsend film.
Oh, and like and like make it work.
What it is to build
a a brand by and by yourself.
Like Robert Townsend had help.

(01:31:58):
He had, you know, he,him and Keenan were roommates.
Like there are thingsbut for him to be like,
nah, we're going to kind of throw one ofthe first black superheroes on in a movie.
And if you're black,you're probably in Meteor Man.
Like, and if every time I see you're inheart, you're in five heartbeats for sure.
For sure.
Every time I see James Earl Jonesin that way, it is what it brings me.

(01:32:21):
Joy. Okay? Makes me so happy.
It brings me joy.
I love you, throws it
when they betray you.
Him. And that wig is that calm.
That whole meteor man.
It's can't we we can have a whole episode.
Maybe we'll have a bonus episodethat is just us
talking about Robert Townsendand be your man in. I love that.

(01:32:41):
That would be an amazing film.
That would be an amazing, thereamazing course.
I would loveif Robert Townsend would teach it
like, perfect. Yes.
That's a good question I have.
I wish I had a better answer,but I my first answer and
I don't even know what.
I don't even know what I'm tryingto train people for.
But my first answer truly would beemotional regulation in the workplace.

(01:33:05):
Like, I love that.
I was like, no, I think we need much likekindergartners need are taught like,
this is what we do with our big feelings,I think.
I think we need to re up
on some of those lessons, because peoplehaven't quite figured it out.
And so for any training program, it's
emotional regulation in the workplace.

(01:33:27):
This is my town, right?
Right.
Oh well, you know, she's she'sa little bit of trouble right now anyway.
But that's fine.
I think she's fine.
She just told everybodyto get to work in an academy that.
No, nobody where there was no work.
And I felt a little.
Yeah, out of touch. But whatever.
Kevin Brown I don't I don't know Tabitha.

(01:33:49):
I hope she's.
Well, but now I just.
I have longer stories,but it's also connected to, like,
what I was talking aboutwith the teachers.
It's like so many adultsare in charge of other adults
and don't knowhow to regulate their feelings. Yes.
Yeah, I'm not saying.
And when I say regulate feelings,I am not talking about suppress.
Although sometimes I recognizeyou have to.

(01:34:10):
But like a lot of timesmanagers, teachers,
clients decide thatbecause they feel a thing
that however they respondis the appropriate response.
And it's like, hey, I don't trust you.
So that means I can yell at you.
No, actually yelling is not okaywith Rachel voice, right?

(01:34:35):
It's like, got it, got it, got it, got it.
Keep her hands of bodies to ourselves.
You aren't yelling.
You can talk about feeling distrustful.
So what are the ways in which we cancreate transparency and be in agreement?
Like straight up?
I think every.
And forget artist training programs.
I will also actually give a shout outartist specifically.

(01:34:57):
And this is not a good shout out.
It's a call in and that a lot of timespeople think because they are artists in
are ruled by the feelings
by this process or whatever,that thing, they can like be jerks
because they make good art and it's like,no, no, that's
still a problem of emotional regulation.
That's still an issue.
Like, do you can't be a jerkjust because you make decent work.

(01:35:21):
And you spend a lot of energybeing a jerk.
So what if you tooksome of that jerk energy
and used it to be creativeand or kind to your collaborators?
And so, yes, emotional regulationin the in for artists
and or in the workplace would be my dream
unconventional class because we need it.

(01:35:42):
And I need folks to understandthat how they feel
is impacting how they behave,and mostly in negative ways.
Yeah.
yeah, that's a great I also would like myI think my second class
would be Excel for artistsbecause that's fun.
Stop doing math in word documents.
Stop it.
This is everybody just basically said I'myou don't have to know

(01:36:06):
all the spreadsheets or whatever,but you folks,
you would building budgets in wordand then doing math manually
and literally Excelis there to do the math for you
because you make an adjustmentand then all of a sudden all your math,
you have to figure out it's thereand somehow think that's easier
and it's not easier.
But the numbers in Excel hit some.

(01:36:28):
Let it do the math for you.
Oh yeah, let me know.
I'm yelling because you're this.
The logic bothers me because you'reyou're saying you're bad at math.
And so then you do the situationwhere you still have to do the math
and that you wrote,you write that you're bad at it. So.

(01:36:51):
So do you use the system that allows this?
The computerto do the math for you. Right.
The thing that's good at the math,the thing it's good.
It's the math.
Don't build the thingwhere you who are bad at the math
because you said you're bad.
It's the best have to do the math.
Let the computer do the math for you.
At the very least,

(01:37:11):
the computers may kill us all, butwe know that they know how to do the math.
That's the thing.
We know. They know how to do that.
We know they know how to do that.
That's very true. So.
So yes, the first onereally emotional regulation first,
but definitely light Excelfor artist subtitle.

(01:37:33):
An unconventionalmy second unconventional class
would definitely be, it's dangerous.
It's dangerous to go along and take these,which are,
it would be a retrospectiveof what gaming has taught me.
And how to live my life.
I do like that. That'd be.
That'd be a fun story.
Yeah, you know, it.
Have classes, like,you know, if there's enemies forward,

(01:37:54):
you're going the right way.
Like like like,
you know, check every corner.
If that looks different,there's probably a reason.
There's probably if that looks there,there's probably a reason, you know,
and also percentages over flat rates.
And if
they're giving you a bunch of health packstake them.

(01:38:14):
Yeah. Prepare for danger.
Prepare for danger. Right.They did autosave.
They did all this again.
You should probably prepare some takes.
Prepare for danger.
Is are there are there arethere are a bunch of on ramp.
There are there off ramps.Are there ways to exit?
Mark them.
You don't have to take thembut know where they are.
And you know in the in my last one,which is the thing that I do constantly is

(01:38:35):
get all the fast travel pointsfirst, get all the fast travel points.
Yeah, absolutely.
However that looks in your world.
And I see fast travel points as people.
Oh yeah.
That was supposed to get me here.
Yep. You can get me here. Amazing.
I feel I feel both workhard and play hard.
I feel good aboutwhat we talked about today.

(01:38:58):
I two feel both work hard
and play hard and.
Those stupid
haha.
Me such a stupid thing.
I'm going to say that forever.
Now you're good.
Is that if Iif you work hard, you didn't play hard.
Thank you all for hanging with us.

(01:39:21):
Please tell usabout your educational experiences.
Tell us about your nonsense
that you experience with somebodytrying to learn you something.
My grandmother, rest in peace,
would say two things, that I still hear,
which was, you know, she talked aboutget you learning, and what's real.

(01:39:41):
And she would say it with a laugh,but it was it would get you learning
or get your lesson outor get your lesson out. Yes.
And I think about that.
So, you know, folks,give us get your lessons out.
So tell us what you're learning.
Tell us what folkstried to try to learn. You,
Carolyn, hit us with them socials.
You know, them socials, baby.

(01:40:03):
@HustlingWithHargesacross Instagram, TikTok and YouTube.
Okay, my question for the comment section.
What is your unconventional courseand your training program?
Is it a Robert Townsend retrospective?
Absolutely. What is the thing?
I want to knowwhat your training program is.

(01:40:23):
Give me the give me the thing
that has gotten you through lifethat is extremely unconventional,
that you're like,if other people knew this,
maybe their liveswould be a little smoother.
Word and a half.
Join us,
for our next episodewhere we're going to talk about,
you know,the opposite of our success fantasy.
What happenswhen you deal with disappointment

(01:40:44):
or when you're just burned outand can't quite see the the positives?
So it's, you know,I think it's going to be fun.
It's going to haveour own ridiculous stamp on it.
Right.
But like I really. Yeah, yeah.
What do you do.
So if you, if you can't get the third yetbut you got it and bills are due baby.
How do you manage disappointment.
How do you stay focused in that space.

(01:41:06):
Thank you for your time, energy,attention.
This is always a pleasure.
Thank you for listening.
And we're getting to the end, y'all.
So if there's some thingsyou want to hear us
talk about again, hit us on the socialto this in that email.
And we will talk to you soon.
We'll see you in a few weeks.
See you in a few weeks.
We love you. Bye bye.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

The Joe Rogan Experience

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}We Learned Good: On Creative Training and Education

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

The Joe Rogan Experience

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

We Learned Good: On Creative Training and Education

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang